Just to raise a thought; the weapon was Russian but do others have it as well?
1
The Russian kleptocrats are just lying liars.
"Our troops in Crimea? How dare you suggest that we would try to annexe another country?"
"Polonium poisoning by Andrey Lugovoy at Putin's command? What a ridiculous suggestion! We should make Lugovoy an MP. That would show you what an honest guy he must be..."
"Our guys shot down the MH17 airliner? Just because the plane was shot down by a Buk missile system that had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash and fired from a field in a rebel controlled area before being returned to Russia immediately after it shot down MH17 doesn't mean that Russia did it you know! It could have been anyone! It's disgraceful that you should suggest Russian culpability for the loss of 298 innocent overflying civilian lives."
It's just pathetic. Caught in ever bigger lies to try to cover up their idiotic stupidity they think that they can distract people at home and abroad just by another breathtakingly obvious lie.
This never ends well. At some point the duped people turn on the liars. It ends in a secret firing squad in a cellar at one end of the scale or a bloody ice axe attack in Mexico or something similar at the other. Lies, assassinations, murders and kleptocracy....Russia is just not a serious country.
6
Maybe it's my paranoia of 40 years of dealing with Russians in NY (trust me, it's justified) but I assume that whoever did this knew with certainty that the method would be exposed. So what does the Putin State have to gain by that? How about the demonstration (both to the West and to Russians) that they are ready to use terrible weapons (possibly up to nuclear) on the West with little provocation. Revelations seemed well timed for Putin's subsequent announcement of hypersonic weapons (which would not be a deterrent unless they could be used). Just maybe simple paranoia on my part, but certainly not implausible.. ...
3
Even now, comments castigate Trump. Yes, he is a bloviating blimp, unfit to lead, etc., etc. -- but it was a White House decision to expel Russian diplomats. Whether Trump was pleased to do that, or actually pressured into doing it -- he did do it.
No, I do not trust him, his motives, anything about him -- but to castigate him over this issue is unfair.
1
It's all a sham and a show. The words "Trump" and "fair" don't even belong in the same sentence. Is it unfair to speak the truth?
2
The rooskies hacked our elections over a year ago.
What president draft dodger should have done was freeze russian oligarch's assets the day we was appointed president by the electoral college.
Anything short of that is tantamount to treason.
2
Things never heard on Earth:
1. The United States is being invaded, quick somebody contact the pampered sons of rich republicans, they're our only chance.
2. This person just had a major heart attack, get him to a church STAT!
3. This problem is more technically and logistically challenging than anything we've faced before, quick, contact the russians for help.
3
All phony posturing and public relations. Russia is literally at war with the USA, having interfered successfully in our election and now invading and hacking our physical and political infrastructure. It is an undeclared war and even more insidious, and Russia is winning it hands down- we don't even know we are being attacked. The phony optics of expelling diplomats while letting Russia run hog wild over the globe in supporting homicidal dictators and attacking our allies is par for the course with Putin's ally and puppet, Trump. His actions are like his phony gold plated escalator and his hollow "University"- nothing about him is real. The Cold War is over- and with the manipulated election of Trump, we lost.
1
"Hours later the White House issued a muted response, calling the Kremlin actions “a further deterioration” in United States-Russia relations."
Candidate Trump was boastful about his temperament. He still is ... except when it comes to standing up to a bigger bully than he is ... Putin.
1
we and the brits need to hit Putin and his friends in ways that really hurt and that no amount of tit-for-tat retaliation is possible: put the squeeze on the oligarchs who spirit stolen money to the west and hide it in real estate and other assets. make them pay a real price, collectively, for the outrageous acts of their government who, in reality, they own, in the russian gangster state economy. let them park their money in venezuela or cuba and see how that goes.
3
And who is going to do that, pray tell? The Republican majority in Congress and the Senate?
1
Well, apparently, nobody wants to think at all ... Generation of people who have a head only to eat into - has grown ...
To me here it is not clear - the charge without proofs - this is democracy?
1
About as even-handed as one could expect, except there is no reference to the probable target (Russian hosting of the World Cup tournament) for the likely false flag poisoning of the Skripals. Almost a month has gone by and still no presentation of the evidence.
2
In Trump's little mind, we're even. But, Russia still owes us an election and Britain, several murdered civilians. But, nice job on the election, Vlad!
I’m still waiting for any evidence showing Russia was actually behind the poisonings. Anything? This is starting to give me flashbacks to 2003.
3
A lot of this Kremlin fury may just be recognition that Putin's campaign to reestablish the Soviet empire and make Russia relevant in the world again has only served to isolate his country, and made him a suitable dinner partner only for his fellow authoritarians, dictators and despots. Russia is bogged down in Syria, the war in the Ukraine is stalemated, his country's economy is torpid, and his people are slowly getting fed up with the corruption. Now, his cold war era spy games are getting called out by the West. So, there's nothing to be done at this point but to lash out.
1
Sending diplomats home is not a very difficult or dangerous thing to do. It might up set diplomats, but does the public in Russia or the USA really care?
1
"The British say they have solid evidence that Russia was probably behind the attack, and that Mr. Putin himself probably approved it."
The British said that there were definitely weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They were wrong. The lie was necessary so try and get public opinion to support an attack on Iraq.
The target this time is Russia Russia does have weapons of mass destruction and an attack on Russia will provoke WW III.
6
Irrelevant in the era of digital reach not to mention when Russia has that ship casing (or tapping?) global undersea telecom cables. U.S. banking, the electrical grid, fuel flow, military bases, and communications hardly need the Russian in-country staff to make mischief.
Leaving the big money oligarchs in place and in play makes the U.S. expulsions somewhat weak. Until the money lot are gone Trump has done nothing. Wonder why he didn't boot them first.
Given the politics, as a U.S. citizen I would not want to attend the World Cup.
Really?? Britain's crack investigative job in determining the big-bad-Russians poisoned the Skripals is truly top-notch. Their reasoning, among other incontrovertible proof, "Novichok was developed by Soviet scientists in the 1970's and 1980's"
"Britain CLAIMS to have solid evidence that Russia was PROBABLY behind the attack, and Mr. Putin himself PROBABLY approved it. The British government has NOT MADE its evidence public"
Say no more! Case closed, Monty Python! And who actually benefits from this alleged poisoning? The plutocrats and military industrial complex of the Anglo-American fading empires are gleefully rubbing their hands together while the media spreads innuendo and unproven "facts" ginning up a WWIII.
Keep lapping it up, Sheeple. Sad. As we wildly careen towards another war and planetary disaster, poking our righteous fingers into the rest of the world's eyes, all we get is more disinformation, daily - and from who? The usual suspects, the Russians? No, just our own trustworthy US/UK media.
11
Very glad others are starting to question the evidence here — or the lack thereof. Keep it up please! We must have evidence and public debate of the evidence for voters to do their job of holding our leaders accountable.
6
Putin created a quasi-mafia state where "Gov't is not involved" is a "true" statement... Wink Wink :))
All the loose players like in case of Litvinenke episode and likely in this one are under strict and close control of Russian Special Services... Them being not on direct payroll provides Russia with a degree of deniability that exonerates them from telling blatant lies in their warped worldview, however full and complete responsibility is with Russian Gov't and Brits and WH are correct to link them to all the punishment measures...
Weak link to this is all of it should've been done in Litvinko's murder that May herself was throttling from advancing...
Ironic... :)
2
Cat's out of the bad for The Donald. He can't be Vlad's buddy & pretend to be anything but a traitor.
1
The NY Times just seems to determined to paint this predictable tit-for-tat move by Russia in the most shrill and stark terms possible, truly a piece of irresponsible journalism. It's as if you're determined to paint this as a gloom-and-doom escalation and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's important to point out that the goods still haven't been definitively found on Russia, no matter how likely they are to be the culprit, and also that no matter how much the NY Times itself is champing at the bit for get-tough measures on the Kremlin, this is not the role of journalism, to make a self-fulfilling prophecy out of the story it wants to create. Whatever happened to objective journalism??
7
Russia is the evil empire. History will show it was best to isolate them.
3
But America is, apparently, an angel in white robes? But what about the burnt children in Vietnam? And what about the chalk in a test tube, from behind which was destroyed Iraq and there are more than a million victims? I could go on, but there is not enough room to list all the crimes of the United States.
2
Putin's spokesman accused western nations of “gangsterism in international affairs.” Interesting the Russians had such a phrase immediately at hand. I suggest Mr. Peskov look in the mirror if he wants to see the preeminent gangster power in the world.
Of course, the US currently has a president who may have used gangster tactics to silence women involved in his past dalliances. But at least our system is working to correct that injustice.
2
“ its Twitter account to vote for which American consulate Moscow should close in response “
One good thing about all this is that they actually exercised democracy in choosing the consulate.
If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck it’s probably a duck.
1
I can't see the expulsion of diplomats (spies? some) from ANY country as a means of showing muscle. The fewer people of opposing nations talking diplomacy, the more separated we become, and the less improvement in relationships. Shouldn't the old trope of "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" resonate in this current environment with active warfare looming on the horizon? I have mourned the passing of decency, and further mourn the fading of democracy and diplomacy.
7
I have to say that Russia closing the St Petersburg embassy for our closing their one in Seattle seems a serious downgrade for St Petersburg. Maybe is Putin has a sense of humor after all.
2
Wait. I thought that Mr. Trump was Putin’s lackey. Huh, I guess not.
2
JP. The British knew Trump would be a tough nut to crack as far as sanctioning the Russian nerve agent attack. They pressured high level contacts throughout our government, and not surprisingly Trump couldn't ignore this unprecedented situation.
There's also reporting here that Trump's staff had to fool him by hiding the true scale of our diplomatic response. Trump still bristles whenever Russia is brought up by aides, and for the most part they avoid bringing the topic up to minimize his daily outbursts.
And Mueller is looking into potential contacts by Trump or his surrogates with Ambassador Kislyak during the Republican convention.
The issue of Trumps collusion with Russia, let alone obstruction of justice, election finance fraud, and financial crimes including money laundering, are far from dead.
2
This seems to be intended to create the illusion of a serious conflict between Russia and the Trump administration. Baloney. Trump himself has had no meaningful public statement on the matter.
4
Nonsense! They were all lower level officials and this kind of stuff happens all the time. the bigger news story that the NY Times won't report is the UK government not releasing specific details of the assassination and their refusal to comply with the requirements to investigate an incident like this as per the international chemical weapons convention.
3
This is mostly dithering. The West is dancing around Russia clad in kid gloves and trying to be nice but forceful. It's impossible to be both. Kick 'em all out, and keep 'em out. Then take the next step, bar all Russian travel into the U.S. and discontinue all -- ALL -- business and financial relationships. The Russians, all of 'em, are not to be trusted. Keep Ivan in Russia.
The Russians should look on the bright side. The western response could have been selling nukes to the Ukraine. Putin abrogated the 1994 treaty which got rid of Ukrainian nukes by invading Crimea. A lesser response would have been selling 1000 f-16s or M-1 tanks to the Baltic states and Ukraine.
1
Detecting a witch is like figuring out if duck is a duck. If it drowns then it is not a duck (or a witch), if it floats then it is a duck (or a witch thus it should be burned).
Trying it on Russia currently ...
2
if they can't run a clean Olympics, should we really expect the Russians to live up to their chemical weapon obligations seriously?
3
The US jumps into a dispute between Russia and the UK after the UK says Russia "probably" poisoned an ex-spy -- Russia retaliates and the headlines read "Kremlin Escalates a Crisis" No fake news here! Meanwhile, the UK has not followed the protocol of the treaty it and Russia are a party too on how to handle accusations such as the UK has made (not giving the Russians sample of the alleged poison, not following the deadlines and dates they are supposed to afford the Russians to reply within) -- meanwhile the West seems to think the meaning of "probably" is "guilty without a doubt". " Sergey V. Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, said Thursday that Russia had called for a meeting next Tuesday of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to “establish the truth” with respect to what Russia refers to as “the so-called Skripal case.” Well, the Russian are following the proper procedure in these kinds of cases -- let's see what actually happened.
6
The World cracks the Russians across and the face for being a bad actor, finally, and what is the Russian reaction, "how dare you". Russia needs to wake up, realize the days of being a world power are gone. Yes you have nukes, but what else.... Instead of having an educated populace with huge potential, your run by a KGB spy and a group of oligarchs, you look at having bases in 3rd world countries, stealing bits of land from previous partners, and messing with the societies of the 1st world countries. How do they think this is going to end. It will end badly.
Theresa May has produced no proof for her accuzation. We only just found out that the point was on the doorknob of their home.
SInce many countires of the USSR made Novocok and its formulsa ended up on lline.
"OPCW: Report of the Scientific Advisory Board on developments in science and technology for the Third Review Conference 27 March 2013
Indeed the OPCW was so sceptical of the viability of “novichoks” that it decided – with US and UK agreement – not to add them nor their alleged precursors to its banned list. In short, the scientific community broadly accepts Mirzayanov was working on “novichoks” but doubts he succeeded.
Given that the OPCW has taken the view the evidence for the existence of “Novichoks” is dubious, if the UK actually has a sample of one it is extremely important the UK presents that sample to the OPCW. Indeed the UK has a binding treaty obligation to present that sample to OPCW. Russa has – unreported by the corporate media – entered a demand at the OPCW that Britain submit a sample of the Salisbury material for international analysis.
Yet Britain refuses to submit it to the OPCW. "
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
5
It is the updated version of Novichok no one wants out in the open. If submitted, the newest and most weaponized formula would be available.
You do wonder why Putin is pulling all of these ham-handed Russian style moves now. He has Trump is his pocket and along with most of his family. Why mess with an already established Manchurian President.
1
There was a Cold War joke years back. (So I read once.)
QUESTION: What's the Russians' favorite chess piece?
ANSWER: The knight. 'Cause it moves eight different ways. . . . . .
. . . .ALL OF THEM CROOKED!
(Laughter and applause)
But really! Do they take us all for FOOLS? Persons without eyes. Or ears. Or BRAINS.
People are killed with some kind of NERVE GAS. Or some deadly RADIOACTIVE SUBSTANCE. Or this. Or that.
But they had nothing to do with it. Oh no! In fact (a loud, impressive fanfare here) they gonna talk to some organization I never heard of. An organization dealing with chemical weapons and how bad, how wicked, how utterly reprehensible these are. Virtuous law-abiding members of the world community that they are!
I have read that Mr. Putin (at bottom) has as little long-term strategic sense as our President. He wakes up in the morning (as has been averred of Mr. Trump), considers what "gut instincts" are stirring. Way down there in those mysterious regions where gut instincts DO stir and move about. . . .
. .and decides what he wants to do. Or say. And then does it. Or says it.
And now--looks like all those little plans and projects--little bits of mischief he's been contriving here there and everywhere. . .
. . HAVE BLOWN UP IN HIS ASTONISHED AND ANGRY FACE!
Pray God it doesn't happen here.
To our President.
To our country.
'Cause it could.
It really could.
If you have followed anything about Russia for the last 15 years it is very clear they have no diplomatic intentions. Warfare, espionage and buying off politicians are their tactics and this does nothing to stop it.
They have been harassing and abusing western diplomats in Russia for over a decade, and conducting espionage on U.S. soil. We should have expelled them long ago. Bottom line is this changes nothing for Russia, maybe it hurts us a bit though.
11
Russia is furious? 500 people in the vicinity of where the Skripal's live could be affected by this poisoning episode. They are worried and distressed. One person is barely out of the woods, one person's life still hangs by a thread.
That's just this one shocking event. A year ago, a witness for Russia was beaten to death with a baseball bat in a hotel room by Russian thugs 2 blocks from where I work. That's how Russia does things. And they have the gall to pretend to be "furious".
2
It's time that the world take appropriate measures with Russia. I personally believe it needs to be divided into several smaller states and I think Putin and a number of his oligarchs should face trial. The KGB and its remnants have gone unchecked and this is the result.
This attack was an attempt by Putin to test the effectiveness of NATO. He's measuring the temperature of the water. I have no doubt that further attacks are planned. Putin must be brought to justice. His goal is to return Russia back to it's greatest territorial expanse. But he has no economic or social plan to support the Russian people and is controlling them with propaganda and threats. None of this is permissible.
The Russian autocracy at the moment is trying to apply their own propaganda apparatus to the rest of the world. It's classic KGB. The US is in a damaged position due to Russian attacks, but the world can diplomatically bring Russia to order. And it should. Russia's politicians who stand up to Putin need to be freed, the latest election should be redone, and Putin and his friends need to be relieved of their wealth (which they actually stole from the state) and put on trial for their vast crimes. Once that's finished elections to determine the independence of Russia's various regions should be held.
This was a staged event in my estimation to make Russia/Putin look bad right before their election and the upcoming World Cup. I expect the next step will be the US/EU boycotting the World Cup to punish Russia. When the UK/US started pointing the finger at Russia before an investigation was completed, we should be suspect.
3
I currently live in Inowroclaw city Poland and its anagram means 'lawrow coin' as many things in my life are coded in anagrams but it's a disaster for me and my life as i feel jailed between some international and national things and can't completely live as I would like to. I did some images and paintings when studying arts altough I'm not a painter but whole my stuff seems to be set in policy rather than to art as pricey stuff. I'm simply a hostage of these stupid politicians from whole world including Poland who plays among others my life. Literally and this year is very promising as the end of my life due to this life gambling. Check out Paweł Grycz account on google+, I'm trying to not to make attention on me but rather to solve my case the trap some set me up into.
Is the Kremlin really furious? Or is this simply more theater by Trump and Putin to cover the cozy relationship between Trump and the Russians? It looks like Trump has just given himself bragging rights to claim that he has been tough on the Russians. In fact, it all looks like the kind of posturing at which Trump excels.
We are at war with Russia. Their brutal interference in and subversion of the 2016 US presidential election—and many others across the world—is beyond doubt for anyone except their “useful” Donald Trump and his collaborators. In an era when atomic fission or hydrogen fusion weapons can arrive here from Russia or elsewhere within ten minutes, the lack of need for an official US government declaration demanded by our *in-some-obvious-ways anachronistic constitution* is as clear as is its inability to constrain the rapacious, authoritarian kleptocracy of Trump and his money grubbing cronies.
1
"Russia’s dilemma is now one of prioritization."
source:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2016/03/03/russian-adven...
1
There has never been under any current regime in Russia a time when they have legitimately put an effort to befriend us without a distrustful motive involved. Russia will always be like their pal Trump, we come out on top, it's all in our favor. The idea of us ever, especially under. Putin being treated with respect, honor, fairness is incomprehensible . It just doesn't happen. More should read Russian history. And they don't and haven't changed. The only thing in relating to them is trying to be done now. Stop them, show them they cannot run the US. And never trust , stay vigilant . The other presidents did that. They were smart enough not to get in bed with them. Who would do business with someone determine to do your country harm? Let's see , anyone come to mind? Each country needs to acknowledge the intent of them and deal with them strongly.
1
The other shoe drops. First, having won the war to control America, Mr.Putin got to downsize his diplomatic corp in the U.S. He doesn't need Intel agents any more since he gets a direct feed from the Oval Office. Now, Mr. Putin gets to gut America's diplomatic corp, something The Donald has been trying to do for him for quite a while.
1
This entire conflict is a show that under normal circumstances is and should be hidden from the public's view. Deception and amorality are par for the course in the world of intelligence. Every time something like this got exposed and kicked around the political arena is because someone is a few votes short.
6
Russia is, unfortunately, a third world country with rockets, essentially. Putin appears not to appreciate that, although people in the rest of the world are concerned about his ability to do great harm, they do not respect him. His actions are leading in the wrong direction for that.
Russia has a long and great cultural and scientific tradition and could be a large and positive force for good in the world. What a waste.
2
Dumb and dumber. Thanks to publications like the NYTimes most American have a skewed opinion of the world that can be best described as NATO good, strong countries bad and 3rd World exotic.
It actually made me realize most American rather live in the world of their imagination than the real world where things are murky and everything a shade of gray.
It could be because this country is quite young and founded on borderline religious principles that so many American embrace the idea America is inherently good and everyone else evil.
I can read Chinese and Russian and most Chinese and Russian just toss this latest spat to political grandstanding. Only in western papers do I read people prooving an accusation by citing earlier accusations that's equally hard to proof and politically charged.
6
" ... most American rather live in the world of their imagination than the real world where things are murky and everything a shade of gray."
That doesn't describe most Americans, only DT and his fans.
Need I remind you that while America had six successful manned missions to the moon, the russians missed the Moon twice with their missions.
Non were manned missions because russia couldn't deal with the math.
Russia is about as concerning to educated Americans as are cloudy days.
2
This is quite interesting. The Kremlin apparently did not expect reprisal. They did not expect a unified international response. And especially they did not expect Trump America to stand by its allies.
What does Mr. Putin have on Mr. Trump? What makes Putin believe Trump is working for him?
It is time for Trump to do something significant. Otherwise we must assume he is compromised. Trump must freeze the assets of Putin and his associates. He must deny them access to international banking.
Russian claims that this was orchestrated by the US are silly. Trump once again had to be coerced into doing the right thing vis-à-vis Russia. The TV president has still not made any public comment.
How odd. The Kremlin is pushing the same conspiracy theories as the Trump Republicans--"a deep state loyal to President Obama is opposing Russia."
1
I'm trying to convince myself that there's really a bad guy here. Whom should I believe? We wail about Russia's putative meddling in OUR election, but we've been interfering in others' elections forever. Are we pretending that we've never assassinated someone else's spy? Is any of this really beyond the range of standard operating procedure? I feel like I'm being manipulated by both sides. Whom do I like less, Putin or Trump? It's complicated.
5
The problem with Russia, and Putin, is that they're pushing the envelope a lot now--especially with this nerve agent attack on British soil--because they think Trump has their back 100%. Clearly that is not the case. The risky betting that Putin and the Kremlin took to undermine the 2016 U.S. elections has paid some dividends, but that same risk-taking is now clearly clouding their judgment.
They also have forced Trump in a corner--in order to save his skin in the growing Mueller investigation and create some plausible deniability, he has to cave on demands of a much tougher response against Russia. Trump may also see hard retaliation against Russia as a belated, infantile, narcissistic attempt to make things right--"See, I have power over you too, Putin!!! Na, na, na, na!"
I hope that Putin's and the Kremlin's bet, over the long term, turns out much worse than the short-term gains of having someone as compromised as Trump in power. Rallying the whole Western power structure against your relatively weak country--and having no reliable allies to back you up (China wants a weak Russia like everyone else)--will not turn out well.
Soon traveling to Russia will be like traveling to North Korea. Personally I'm fine with that. For whatever reason this country, including in its previous form, thinks crazy ideas. If the folks there can't find a way to do what is right for themselves we need to distance ourselves from the entire country. We helped them in WWII and they said "oh no those Studebaker trucks are made here in Russia". We tried to help them after their experience with with Lenin's and Stalin's version of Marxism totally belly flopped. We have accepted them into G8, and other economic opportunities.
What the West gets back is Crimea, Ukraine, pressure in the Baltic states, assistance in Syria to add to the chaos, computer game hacking to the effect of practically shutting down our open form of political processes.
Time to close them out.
Reportedly, Trump has instructed his aides to stay quiet about Russia, presumably to keep from agitating Putin even more.
Trump must be quaking in his boots. He knows Putin has volumes of "kompromat" on him. And the Stormy Daniels plus Playmate, McDougal affairs gives the salacious story from the Steele dossier a whole lot more credibility.
Most people don't care much about the titillating stuff. There has to be more that's keeping DT in line, such as how deep he is into money laundering. Mueller's following the money, not the ladies.
Some have expressed the thought that we really don't know who poisoned the British agent, and since we're not on the inside of that investigation, we really can't know at the moment. People of also said that the nerve agent could have been acquired and used by anyone. That may be true. Perhaps the points should be that we, the human race, have continued throughout our history to create more and more horrible weapons, including nerve gas, and ultimately we will not be able to control them. Not the nerve gas, not the nuclear weapons. Our own will towards destruction and greed will kill us one way or another. If we don't blow ourselves up or poison ourselves with lethal nerve gas, we will simply die in our own environmental muck. Depressing, but this is the world we have created.
6
Feigned righteous indignation and diplomat expulsions for the benefit of the domestic audience is a time-honored cold war tradition. So it comes as no surprise that Mr. Putin, who looks upon the cold war as the good old days, would act to form. Given the Russia's hostile intervention in the U.S. election ("meddling" is an offensively timid term) and its use of banned weapons to undertake murderous acts of terror to send a message to any who would be a traitor in Putin's eyes, I thought the world response to be well short of the mark. Unless the civilized nations of the world send a much stronger signal to Putin, he will not be discouraged and meddling will be the least of anyone's problems.
4
The WaPo told how Trump got to agree to the biggest expulsion of Russian officials in the US history. The Reagan administration expelled 55 in 1986. The Bush administration declared 50 Russians persona non grata in 2001 in response to the Robert Hanssen espionage case.
Apparently Trump was presented three options describes as “light, medium and heavy.” During the meeting his aides described them to him in broad terms and didn’t tell him how many Russians were to be expelled. They didn’t give him a precise number for the “medium” option, leaving it to subordinates to decide.
Perhaps in hindsight Trump could have grumbled about the number. He loves to write history, but not at the cost of enraging Russia.
3
"... the biggest expulsion of Russian officials in the US history."
You left out an important detail: "... one official noted that U.S. counterintelligence is aware of well over 40 Russian spies operating in the United States who were not included in the initial purge."
As the Wash. Post article explains:
'“If you go heavy now and the Russians really retaliate, we would be more limited in what we can do later,” the official said. “With the medium option,” the official said, “you’re throwing a solid punch but withholding a fist, and the president was persuaded by that option.”'
The Times should figure out who in the White House likes boxing metaphors. :-)
So they all spy on each other, play dirty tricks, kill thousands of people in proxy wars for the sake projecting power and the outrage is only directed at Russia!!! I would suggest that the biggest threat to American democracy comes from your own Republican party and institutions. Where is the outrage against Facebook, Cambridge Analytica and the revelations about their role in manipulating elections in the west??
13
"Where is the outrage against Facebook, Cambridge Analytica ..."
There is a big difference between assassinations and political advertising.
Anyway, if you read the Times, you should know that there is plenty of "outrage". Google "Cambridge Analytica site:nytimes.com".
1
Yes, if the assassination was the work of Russia, which seems to be accepted by everyone in the west, supported by mostly circumstantial evidence. The methods used are shocking for sure, but there are many instances of the west using violence and terror to deal with political opposition. As to Analyitica the outrage seems to have dissipated and there are no plans to introduce legislation to prevent this from happening again. Large US corporations always escape punishment when they violate the rules of democracy and harm the public interest.
2
Why didn't Putin just do the usual dictator thing: find one of his critics to blame and have him accidentally shot in the head during his arrest? Seems strange. Maybe Putin really is just a bungling, comically incompetent dictator.
2
Or maybe, he is not a dictator at all, just a strong leader who are willing to stay on the way of American World domination?
Darn! Last month, Trump was Putin's pool boy!
3
A crisis? What a laugh. For years the diplomatic corp was a jobs program for the elite. Live large abroad on the taxpayers dime. Of course they did some intelligence gathering while oversees but with more open borders and the interent the diplomatic corp is no longer needed to keep tabs on things.
1
But but but the smart and talented writers of the atrocious editorial board all told us that Trump is best friends with putin and would NEVER do anything to cross him....
The NYT' stuffing of its deformed narrative of what its masters in the national democratic party want its dronelike readership to believe is pathetic and emblematic of its collapsed journalistic standards.
5
"dronelike readership"....Troll like would be more appropriate. Do you suppose Trolls get paid by the line or by the comment?
2
if this is all it takes to convince you, it's no wonder you were so easily conned by such an obvious conman.
1
After reading Bill Browder's Red Notice, it provided clarity and insight into the mind of Russian politicians and oligarchs for me. When accused of something bad that they have done, they will deny it, than refute it, than deny it again even though it is in all probability absolutely accurate. It is inconceivable for them to ever admit to accusations against the Kremlin, even though the rest of the world has evidence proving the validity of the accusation. They appear to think that continued verbal defensive tactics make people believe in their innocence. The NY times article on the babushkas who believe that Putin is a great leader because he is a viril, intelligent, physically strong man revealed the extent to which the people of Russia are controlled by the locktite political power over their news media using false verbal praise to bolster Vladimir Putin. And the question than becomes to the world; are we dealing with a modern day Hitler? Attempted takeover of the Ukraine, annexation of the Crimea, internet takeover in foreign countries, drugging former spies and their family members in other countries, etc. These are not the actions of a leader who is only interested in maddened control over his country's population like Nicolas Maduro, these are intelligent and well placed tentacles with suction cups on the end, extending their shadow far beyond the lines that define the borders of this massive country into oceans and across countinents.
5
One thing the World could do is to enforce the international laws for everybody. For that, it should condemn the annexation of Kosovo, and demand a return of Kosovo to Serbia, it should condemn the invasions of Iraq, Libya and Syria, and demand apologies from countries that committed the crimes if not a monetary restitution. it should condemn killings by drones across the borders and of course, cyber attacks.
5
Hey Russia, I will trade you one Trump, a Kushner and a Trump Jr. for 2 liters of vodka, 100 grams of fine of caviar and a good borscht recipe.
You have 1,026 days, 12 minutes and 47 seconds to decide. But if you trade now we will throw in Ivanka Trump (she's cute) and Donald's password on Twitter.
12
Lavrov. A cheap gangster in an expensive suit. Next time tell them to lay off the starch when you get that suit cleaned.
6
Yes! And this is the guy who publicly smirked at and mocked the U.S. from right inside the White House, with t standing by. Ridiculous.
This article is wildly unbalanced on the poisons. Responsible British papers essentially call it a fraud.
One could present paragraphs of evidence (Thomas below begins), but how could this conceivably be a powerful military chemical and not kill them immediately
As for Trump, give the man some credit. He has an enormous victory in North Korea, and he likes to work behind a distracting smoke and mirrors.
When he talked with Putin on the congratulations message, the real message was the optimism of Ukraine and Afghanistan. Mattis was in Kabul negotiating on the Biden-like division of the country that Landler wrote about some months ago.
So to keep propaganda sheets like the NYT occupied, he gives them the diplomatic expulsions and Putin cooperates to snarl at. Some Cold War.
If the Times would only replace Friedman with Landler, it would take an enormous first step in becoming a newspaper again.
1
Oh no...we'd better not anger the russians or they'll stop shipping their world famous products to west.
Golly, what will we ever do without russian tech?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...russia, The Milli Vanilli of countries.
5
I dig you, Yankee. I agree 100%. Russia is the loser who tries to get attention of the beautiful, rich, powerful countries by playing bad boy and acting rude. Just quit inviting them to the party, and they will have to stay home in their dilapidated, wretched house. I say we block everything having to do with Russia. Europe should make a goal to be completely independent of Russian energy by 2030.
Sure, Europe should pay much more for their gas, just to please Americans.
2
There’s a fish that smells somewhere in this. Poisoning a former Russian agent with a weapons grade nerve gas with an identifiable fingerprint in a public place seems more like an overt message than a covert attempted murder. Maybe Putin doesn’t care about the expulsion of a few U.S. and U.K. Diplomats if it allows him to get rid of a bunch of their agents? What he’d really care about is the implementation of the economic sanctions already passed by Congress. Also, I recall that in Guradian reporter Luke Harding’s book, when Alexander Litvenienko was poisoned in London and it was determined the polonium that killed him had a Russian source, Theresa May was the the magistrate who determined not to pursue it because the U.K. was dependent on Russian oil.
1
"Poisoning a former Russian agent with a weapons grade nerve gas with an identifiable fingerprint in a public place seems more like an overt message than a covert attempted murder."
And it is common knowledge that the formula for "Novichok" nerve agents was published years ago and is available to anyone. This could just as easily be a setup, to benefit Russia's enemies. No proof has been released, one way or the other.
1
Any study of Russian history reveals a population so diffued over a large area, and so accustomed to being ruled from afar, that they just vote for whoever seems 'strongest'. No point in involving oneself in events, just go along and get along. Of course Putin knows all this and uses it to the hilt. A modern strongman who will make Russia a power, but without any basis in anything other than external threat, military might, and suppression of internal opposition. No contributions to world stability, or economic growth, or innovation. No change in this over the centuries.
4
To all fairness, it is difficult To expect from such small and insignificant country as Russia a big contribution to the World stability, when such a powerful country as the US is bent on creation of instability. All what Russia could hope it is protect itself from American liberation a la ME style.
2
How about having the United Nations step in with severe sanctions against Russia? A united, global front is a very clear message.
And while Putin is insisting that the rest of the world - starting with the UK - prove it had a hand in the poisoning of Sergei V. Skripal and his daughter - the onus here is on Putin - not the rest of the world - to prove Russia was not behind the it.
2
Maybe, it is a little bit too difficult to bully the World without convincing evidence.
3
While Russia needs to be punished for the poisoning case in London, and the world is correct to show its moral outrage, I would assert that the more appropriate punishment would be economic sanctions targeted at the government and wealthy kleptocrats enabled by and in the service of Putin.
Instead, we are now in a game of tit-for-tat closings of consulates and reductions in embassy and consular staff. Who does that hurt? It hurts average everyday people from both countries. People who might need a visa or who need to replace a passport, or who need document authentication or assistance with various other matters of bureaucratic fiddle faddle. If you travel overseas and your passport is lost or stolen, or you find yourself in some sort of trouble, to whom do you turn? You turn to your country's nearest embassy or consulate.
Here in the Seattle area is one of America's largest Russian-American populations. Many in that population have relatives back in Russia and other connections to their home country. The closure of the Russian consulate here will create inconvenience for them as they will now need to deal with the Russian consulate in Houston 1900 miles away. And for the record, based on my interactions with the local Russian diaspora, the vast majority of them have absolutely no love for Putin or the current state of Russia.
6
Most of us should be thankful to Theresa May and her method of dealing with the poisoning of Russian people case.
From here on anyone of us attempting to make a statement that lacks evidence can just "DO A THERESA" and skip proofing the point all together.
Brilliant!
2
It fairly certain that the poisoning of Mr. Skripal was done by Russian agents, with or without Putin's explicit approval. If Putin was in no way involved it would be to his advantage to denounce the deed and cooperate with Britain to find the culprits. That would go a long way to improve relations with the West. Obviously he is not interested in following a path of reconciliation. On the contrary, he is using this event to further inflame his countrymen against the West by peddling wild conspiracy theories. In their relation to the truth he and Trump have much in common. Luckily for us, Trump so far has no murderous thugs willing to do dirty deeds for him and does not have the power to muzzle the media. We can be sure if he had such power the only outlet left would be Fox News.
4
Russia did indeed ask for the cooperation of Britain and the OPCW in investigating this crime. Britain has refused their cooperation so far.
1
Russia is a country that has a vast state-sponsored doping program to this day. Remember that fact when choosing who to believe.
6
Really? Just few days ago in NYT was a big article about doping operation biggest in World running from the US. There was a list with thousands names on it including American Olympians. Funny how little of splash this information produced. I am wondering why.
1
Link please yuliar.
Much ado about nothing.
Those "expelled" are simply replaced with others.
The expelled Russians are replaced with other Russians.
The expelled Americans are replaced with other Americans.
Sound and Fury signifying nothing.
5
We are essentially at war with Russia. They interfered in our elections. They have made it clear that they can attack our electrical grid and do serious harm. And the latest expulsions are due to Russia's chemical attack on former Soviet citizens and the "hit" list also has Christopher Steele's name on it. Is that a coincidence? I think not! We should be more worried about Russia than Iran and North Korea. Russia is the catalyst and agressor! Sadly our President's odd behavior toward Russia makes it sound like there's no real problem and he's just going through the motion of expelling a few diplomats. We need a GOP that actually cares about this country and not their well lined pockets.
5
Claude Rains words in the last scene of Casablanca, "Round up the usual suspects," are a fitting description of what is going on. Diplomatic expulsions are sound and fury... and signify very little.
People in the US, Europe and Russia should not support their politicians in this ridiculous playground fight. It has nothing to do with the wellbeing of people in their respective countries. In fact, the aim is to distract people from thinking about the class basis of each government.
No, folks, this is a squabble between the English, American and Russian oligarchy and not your squabble, which is precisely with all of the above.
7
Like the Russian people have any choice in supporting their gangster government. Unless they want to take a swan dive from the seventh floor of their apartment buildings!
Even if the poisoning of Skripal and his daughter
was meant to send a message, it is still a stupid
of way of doing it using nerve agent Novichock which
could easily be traced to Russia.
4
Which is exactly the point. Same with Polonium. They want to send a message to any would be turncoat....we will get you.
2
Both sides are doing this to make it look like there are "tensions" to appease those that are upset with lack of action. Trump and Putin are both shirtless on a video call now comparing their man boobs.
Russia should altogether close down those embassies as the way uncivilized uncultured Western barbarians behave. I do not think any chance of bringing these Western barbarians to any civility soon. Remember, how these same brutes told the world that Saddam Hussein is having WMD and send Iraq total rubble and anarchy? Iraq was the most developed nation under Saddam and look now what these Western barbarians did. This same Britain who said Saddam can be launched nuke attack within five minutes and went to war saying - that lunatic insane rabid Tony Blair was telling the world that - medieval middle eastern desert donkey rode tribal primitive nomadic ragtag illiterate god biz aka Jesus biz alias Brian Monty Python version) spoke to him and his other cohort illusional delusional hearing voices and hallucinating Bush also told the world same vulgar. Hence these guys - any credibility left?
2
Quote: "The British say they have solid evidence that Russia was probably behind the attack," anyone can translate for me the "solid evidence that Russia was probably.."?
Did you mention MH17? Anyone to explain why the US keeps quite about their satellite data? Or maybe you know how & why the Ukrainian jet pilot whom Russia blames for shooting down MH17 managed to commit suicide apparently, by shooting himself from the back two times?
If anyone indeed poisoned Skripals, the only ones to do it were the American or British spec. services. Using poison from Porton Down labs nearby. And they certainly have the right mentality to do that : look eg. at the attempts to poison Fidel Castro. Zakharova is absolutely correct: this noise about poisoning of the Russian citizen in Britain, secrecy about the "evidence", denial of the access to the victim and the subsequent media noise created around it is a copy 1933 Reichstag fire. Perhaps, that one was engineered by the Brits too.
6
"The British say they have solid evidence that Russia was probably behind the attack," anyone can translate for me the "solid evidence that Russia was probably.."?.....Meaning we know you can't get novichuk and polonium at your local pharmacy, and we know who wanted them dead. Only one country benefits by sending a "we will kill you message". That is about as close to fingerprints as you can ever get.
1
Your accusations are ludicrous. The nerve agent used in Salisbury is a Soviet-era concoction that Moscow stockpiled. Neither Washington nor London would use such a thing, or any other poison, in the 21st century. They do not poison their enemies abroad. Poisoning is a Russian and North Korean method, and both regimes use it because it sends a message. Your post rings hollow, and at least 24 national governments in the world strongly disagree.
Your conspiracy theories are not effective in overcoming the reality of the Putin-led government attacks on dissenters and journalists. The physical attacks on the opposition candidate Navalny, as well as his subsequent arrest, are examples of how Putin deals with critics. The assassination of Litvenenko and the attempt on Skripal are examples of how Putin deals with “traitors”. The use of nerve agents and polonium poisoning are chilling indicators of how ruthless Putin can be.
This is what happens when you have a dimwit, greedy blowhard pretending to take on the A Team.
Or--show of hands--anybody dumb enough to think that Trump's smarter, stronger and more informed than the Black President, and that things have worsened far, far worse over the last 18 months?
7
This is just a setpiece to show normalcy, worked out by the Trump-Putin backchannels. Wayang kulit, or puppet theatre, in the Indonesian genre.
2
So what is it lefty? Confused or duplicitous. You trash Trump for.... ahem.... "colluding" with the Russians, (Although that left wing fantasy is about to crash and burn) then you trash Trump for getting tough with the Russians, for kicking out 60 spies that Obama let run free for 8 years.
5
Congratulations, Julia Skripal. Best wishes. I have gone through some South Vietnamse reports on over 40 victims of nerve gas attacks om the Buddhist demonstrators from Jun2-June 5 by Colonel Do Cao Tri in Hue. Your ccase mabe more serious, though I'm not sure about the strength of Novichock. How could any body order such a liquidation?
The real question here is why did it take President Spanky so long to punish Russia, was it because his buddy Putin is a good man.
Spanky needs to get his act together.
2
I thought Putin and Trump had a “bromance”. Isn’t that what the NYT has been telling us since you received the Clinton campaign talking points in the summer of 2016?
5
It is all a ruse. Trump”s puppet masters are having a good laugh.
2
Kicking out 60 Russian spies is not enough. Closing the Russian consulate in Seattle is not enough. How about kicking out closing the Russian consulate in NYC, Chicago and LA. Also, how about kicking out the criminal Russian Mob in Brooklyn and seizing the assets of Russian oligarchs in America such as real estate, apartments, mansions and laundered money. To top it off shut down RT!!!
8
Russia Today says they've been advised they can send another 60 back in. You're being conned. Again.
1
“Tensions are worst in decades” trumpets the NYT.
Ya think?
Could it have anything to do with the 24/7 Russia bashing you engage in?
Blaming Russia for the Democrats’ loss, when your candidate was using Russian disinformation to frame her opponent, and then whining about your made up slight, day after day, is tedious.
Distracting and harassing a sitting President of the United States with a fabricated story of “Russian collusion” made up by the Democrats as a political cudgel for having the audacity to beat Hillary bigly is no less pathetic.
Russians spend 50 grand on political ads on Facebook and they are the second coming of the antichrist. It is as if the NYT believes the Russian government is the only government on earth that has heard about this new social media thing.
Our own government would never think to try and interfere in some other country’s elections. We certainly would never waste the astronomical sum of $50 grand on such endeavors.
How so many supposedly educated people fall for the drivel fed to them boggles the mind.
If it helps any, most Europeans, including Russians, know you’re nuts.
11
Spot on, Ken -- too bad the majority of the sheeple here in the US being fed this nonesense, 24/7, continue to lap it up. So sad.
4
I can't believe this is happening, novichik the most potent nerve gas in history supposedly used, Now 2 people have recovered, novichik was not used here, people don't recover from novichik . Did the English misidentified the agent? Who benefits from this? The comments made here from folks who get their info from fake news, and chemtrails and gmo intake will that to you. It's clear as day this is a precursor to a war, it's same old , same old, Dehumanize the target nation, then go in , and destroy it. RUSSIA is next, Putin knows it, his only chance is, if he strikes first. He gave us a warning couple days ago. We just lost thousands in Iraq , 6000 thousand of our guys and gals dead, they went to look for chemical weapons, found none. I believe that's called defeat, We can't defeat Russia from our couches and keyboards. We will not be able to use our Airforce , our ground troops will be exposed to unprecedented firepower. We would need a draft and ramp up our war machine and get ready, there is an outside chance we could loose, and destroy the atmosphere .
5
We are certain to lose. In case you haven't noticed we lose all wars.
2
Isn't this all a joke to make us believe Dumpf and Putin are not really lovers. This is riduculous.
2
And the media is still pushing collusion with Russia. Amazing.
6
Robert Mueller has issued more than 100 criminal counts against 19 people and three companies. Of the 19 people, five — including three Trump associates — have pleaded guilty.
Yeah, we wonder why the media is "pushing" russian collusion.
It's a real head scratcher.
2
Did they plead guilty to Russian collusion or to lying?
So what?
Ridiculous back and forth between superpowers about nonsense.
2
Seattle and St. Petersburg? Wow, what big hit to the relationship. I suspect Spanky cleared it first with Pooty during his call two weeks ago - “You know I need to look tough for the Brits, how about Seattle? Would that be alright with you? I’ll leave DC and the banks alone...”
2
guys you are using conjectures instead of facts. It is not not proven that Russia poison Litvinenko or Skripal. It does proved as a FACT, USA and Britain fake evidence on WMD against Iraq in 2003. if you put inline USA and Britain fake in 2003 and poisoning of Litvinenko and Skripal you could get some idea who did it.
7
"..... Tensions Are Worst in Decades"
How can this be true when every other day or so there is an article or OpEd piece in the NYT's about how Putin owns Trump?
7
Does this mean Russia will “leak” the infamous Trump “pee” tape? Asking for a friend.
2
The honeymoon is over with Trump and Kremlin may just spill the beans on the Dotard to further the goal of dividing the US.
1
IKE should have listened to Gen. Patton and waged war against these idiots after WWII - when we had the chance ... Oh well Shoulda' Woulda' Coulda'
Its russia so WHO CARES?
Russia likes to think of itself as a "player" on the world stage but, honestly, russia is a joke.
Need I remind you, russia cheated at Olympic curling.
That's right, russia is such a loser state it cheated at ice shuffleboard.
Russia has and always will be an also-ran country peopled with sheep to scared and weak to take control of their own country.
First it was the Tsars, then the Commies and now its the oligarchs and all because russians are dishonest uneducated sheep.
Oh no, what will the world do without all those great russian products.
Everyone hold up your russian smartphones and use both hands because it probably weighs 20 pounds and has a rotary dial.
37
But we have to treat them as honored VIPs and a fellow superpower. Help them annex Ukraine and make Syria a protectorate. Then they'll feel secure and leave us alone.
1
All our smart phones come from China or South Korea.
1
There were several countries who underestimated Russia on their own peril. Poland for one, France for another, Germany yet another one. Remember, all these countries were a great power at time when they decided to take on Russia and they broke their teeth. Russia, may be a country of sheep ruled by the wolves, but they sure do like their own wolves, not the foreign ones. Whatever Russia is, it is a country whose people wants to decide their ways by themselves. And if they decided to cheat in curling they should not be told that they better cheat in cycling as America did.
2
This is a mess.
Yet Trump is smart. He is making the Russians and others wonder what his next move is. Too many in our country try to read his every move. That will not work out well for anyone. He does this inane things to put people off-guard. It is a simple business tactic that I use each day in my business and I'm only 15 blocks away from his headquarters when he was CEO of Trump Inc. He will maneuver around this while in the meantime, the Russians are wondering what the heck is going on. Remember, when the Soviet Union collapsed, we thought they had the mightiest military. It turned out they were a paper tiger. No matter what they do again... they are still paper tigers.
1
After all that talk about collusion, only to find out that "tensions are worst in decades." We knew it. Liberals knew it, but they chose to digest nonsense.
3
To the NY Times and all the other major media who demonize Russia every day. Mission accomplished. To see how effective you have been in distorting the reality of US Russia relations for the past 20 years just read the comments--assuming they come from real people and not some contractor for the US State Department, or the CIA/NSA. Has anyone taken a close look how this latest incident has been handled? Have we all completely lost interest in real facts or the rule of law?
8
Expel all Russian diplomats and recall the rest of ours.
2
President Trump tries to ease tensions with The Great Bear, and gets criticized and hammered by the liberal media. He takes action to impose sanctions on The Great Bear, and gets criticized because tensions are the worst in decades.
OMG! This is just more proof that the liberal media is out to get the President no matter what.
Make America Great Again. Support President Trump and this Great Country of ours.
5
Lavrov should tell his boss to stop, hacking elections, murdering people with nerve agents deemed by international law to be WMD and invading his neighbors. Maybe that would help ease tensions?
5
This is as much a farce as the Russia-meddled-in-the-election nonsense. Somebody poisoned the guy, maybe it was Russians, maybe not. The hysteria of the past year prompts skepticism.
5
You gotta love this:
“ the British contend, that they have solid evidence, that the Russian state was PROBABLY behind the attack and Mr. Putin PROBABLY ordered it.”
Just like that. Simple, isn’t?
‘You are probably guilty, because you LOOK suspicious’.
And people just lap it up, no questions asked.
8
Trump's loving this. "See? Vlad doesn't control me"
2
America needs to calm down. As a Russian puppet State, it can do no good to itself by disrespecting its imperial master. What year do you think this is, 1776?
1
Andrew Higgins: "Relations between Russia and the West were already rocky over Moscow’s roles in the wars in Syria and Ukraine,... Crimea, ...meddling in [US] elections ... cyber-attacks and disinformation campaigns...covert effort to destabilize and discredit liberal democracies...etc.".
Seriously? This makes the US and NATO countries look like innocent lambs! So it's Russia who is to blame for all of these problems?
So NATO never expanded despite promises not to do so after the end of the Cold War till it has bases on the Russian borders?
And Western countries never incited or had a role in the rebellion in Ukraine?
And the US never violated Syrian sovereignty had 2500 soldiers on Syrian territory without permission or a UN mandate?
And Western countries have no record of cyber attacks against other countries (like Iran for example)?
And Western intelligence services never tried to destabilize and discredit other governments that are seen as adversary, such as Venezuela, Libya, Cuba, Iran and Syria?
Yes Mr. Higgins; It's just Russia that's being naughty and must be punished...!
9
Russia will be arrogant and unrepentant to the bloody end. They never take responsibility for anything they do (or are accused of doing). They blatantly lie and deflect when accused and then they 'retaliate' to actions taken by others even though they initiated the maleficence. The best way to deal with them is to isolate them even worse than North Korea. Every country should stop giving Russians visas and expel ALL Russian citizens (not just diplomats) living abroad immediately. Sanction them into another universe. Putin and his corrupt oligarchs only understand strength and aggression. They are barbarians and thugs, nothing more. The rest of the world must deal with them accordingly.
3
"Mr. Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who was imprisoned in Russia for selling secrets to the British, was sent to Britain in 2010 as part of a spy swap. " Why did the Russians not destroy him in prison? Is not it strange?
7
Tensions are worst in decades? Maybe the anti-Russia drumbeat in the mainstream press has something to do with that.
6
Nice try. The Russians made their own bed.
2
When we have bullies running the White House what do you expect our standing to be in the world. Our Pope was in America a few years ago and said talk at all costs and save the planet for future generations. These GOP only want war and will find the money for that. If they get us in any war we need to make sure there sons and daughters fight . In other conflicts its always been the Democrats sending there sons and daughters.
2
Is boycotting the world cup next? I hope so.
2
Sports and politics shouldn't be mixed, Chuckie. Even you should be able to grasp that. Or you think, that boycotting the Moscow Olympics (because of the USSR's Afghan intervention, let me laugh) was such a great and brave move, that only resulted the other side hitting back and boycotting the LA Games as a retort?
To boycott the world cup you first have to qualify.
1
Wait a minute....I thought Trump was buddy buddy with Putin? How could the tensions be the worse in decades? WOW! Maybe they aren't buddy buddy after all?
6
I blame Trump for this. Inconsistent responses (if any response at all) to Russian behaviour encouraged the Russians to try bolder action. So they will see how far they can go. And, yes, they find can assassinate foes in foreign countries with virtual impunity. So what is next?
Very clever, oh master of the deal. The bear got out of its cage on your watch.
What do they have on you? Can anyone doubt this? Keep going Mueller. You are our only hope.
1
You realise, Chip, that so far no evidence of any kind (of the Russian state's involvement) was presented, it's just Theresa May and her clown FM's words?
5
Despite the expulsion of Russian diplomats from Seattle, Russian trolling in social media is stronger than ever. Impersonating Americans, they spread bogus news , foment division and create mistrust.
The Russian Federation is engaged is in a massive agitprop campaign on social media . And the sooner we all start to recognize this, the better for our own personal health and the health of our Republic.
3
If they do (successfully) what you claim they do, don't blame them; blame the ultimate stupid, who buys it.
1
It was amazing that Lavrov was able to solve the problem so quickly, now interesting what made him from such opinion.
this answer is primitive and formal. Russia uses this opportunity to remove scouts and disrupt plans. Very strange what Russia do't afraid to lose their money in America
The world needs to hit Putin and associates where it really hurts, freeze their assets in the west, including Putin's, and prosecute those who serve them, including our President..
1
To some extent the new cold war with Russia seems pre-ordered or manufactured to crash normal international relations. How on earth would Russia be that stupid to assassinate an old KGB agent using chemicals from the USSR era in some remote English town; right next to British weapons factory called PORTON DOWN? One theory; the new NORDSTREAM oil pipeline between Russia and Germany avoiding Ukraine; and new pipelines between Russia and China. From a historical point of view oil access is a prime mover for any self-respecting strategist in global affairs. In 1914 the Berlin-Baghdad oil railway neared completion and not welcomed by Great Britain never a fan of a rising Germany. Something had to be done; like today? What if Russia has been setup which is possible?
6
To add: the whole 'incident' looks very much like a botched attempt by some rogue idiot somewhere in the US, and/or the UK to give Putin a black eye just before the election. Note, that the media was haranguing how important a signal would be, if Putin's reelection was a result of a much lower turnout, than before and how Navalny even campaigned for a boycott?
It backfired spectacularly.
4
Time to turn this over to the lawyers like you always do, Mr. Precedent.
Diplomats, we don’t need no stinking diplomats. Sanction the dirty money from mother Russia, hit Putin where it hurts. Freeze all the dirty money held by all the oligarchs, then we know it’s serious. Trump will never sanction or freeze Russian money, it would bankrupt him again.
1
Yes Mr. Trump, we do need a border wall. But not with Mexico. The world needs you to build this border wall around Russia, just the way we fence off a condemned building to protect people outside from what's inside.
Russia has quickly evolved into a Mafia state with Don Putin in control (he even looks and acts like a Mafia Don).
1
Sure, Billy. They tried that for more, than a century; it never worked. The US didn't even recognise the EXISTENCE of the USSR as a state until 1935.
You are way out of your league on this one.
1
Western liberal democracies are doing a great job at destabilising themselves through mad liberal hegemony policies on immigration, cultural reform, job outsourcing etc. They do not need any help from Russia. But I guess it's nice to have someone to blame.
5
Exactly. I'd only add, that 'liberal democracy' as a term is used so widely these days, that it can mean everything and nothing at the same time.
2
This is hurting the US more than Russia. Russia's system of intel is operating better than the US and GB systems. It is not hype or propaganda. Just watching how things go on the battlefields and results of Russian geopolitical moves show this. For instance, 4 years after the coup in Ukraine, with the situation in Crimea, nothing the West has done is rolling this situation back. In Syria, if you need something negotiated, you go to Russia, not anybody else. A bunch of Occidental folks don't like this but, it is how things are now.
When Russia expelled over 700 US diplomats recently, it gutted US intel efforts built over decades. This move is also going to hurt again. Russia isn't going anywhere, so let's just stop the nonsense and begin to respect the reality that we are nolonger Numero Um. My take on things. I wish well to all.
1
So "they have 'solid evidence' that Russia was 'probably' behind the attack" We're being propelled straight to World War 3 by sheer stupidity.
I'd put money down that it's actually Mossad needing to prop up West-Russia tensions to justify the 3 Billion+ dollars Washington spends on funding Israel's anti-Iranian foreign policy.
A wise man once asked "Cui bono?"
How does this benefit Russia? The man wasn't a defector, he was traded in a spy-swap. This undermines any future spy-swaps the Russian government might want to engage in. Furthermore, does anyone legitimately think that the FSB or Putin or whoever made the decision could not have predicted massive backlash in the current political climate?
So either the Russians are not nearly as cunning as everyone maintains they are, or there is a missing piece from the puzzle.
I wonder what would happen to Israel if Washington no longer sees the need to fight Russian proxies in the middle-east...
3
You are supposed to just accept NYT as gospel, despite all facts and logic pointing elsewhere.
Become a true believer and stop thinking.
1
How can there be both collusion with Russia by the Trump Administration and have "tensions are the worst in years" at the same time?
Please explain to me how Nikki Haley, Mike Pompeo and John Bolton, all Trump appointees and thus presumably Russian stooges, are -- justifiably -- harsh and vocal critics of the Kremlin.
I never thought I would live to see the day when so many American liberals would turn out to be more paranoid than James Jesus Angleton.
6
This is nothing but boys trying to show off an pretend that they are tough, so as appear strong to the ignorants of their respective countries. They are so ridiculously afraid of what they believe is losing their face. As if anyone cares in 6 months or a year or whatever.
I find it distressing that these immature men have so much power over the lives of so many people. I'd say to them: It's time to grow up and act as responsible statesmen - or, quite frankly - regional leaders on this tiny little pea of a planet in this universe.
1
The United States should install its nuclear weapons in Poland, Ukraine and Taiwan.
The United States and its allies should be able to DESTROY Russia and China within 30 seconds of a launch.
Period.
Expelling diplomats - by either side - is just Kabuki theater. Putin and Trump are putting on a charade so that US public (and allies) don't realize they are playing footsie under the table.
2
NPR's foreign correspondence in Moscow noted that Trump's policy towards Russia is much tougher than Obama's.
Moving off the ritual expulsion , which is a game that is played to home audiences on both sides, the Trump administration approved the sale of anti-tank Javelin missile systems to Ukraine, a weapons transfer that greatly irritated Putin, and one the Obama Administration did not authorize.
Putin is a man who only understands force. Mr. Obama foreign policy suffered, most notably in Syria from an understanding that you cannot persuade thugs with rational arguments. Delivering weapons to the Ukraine, on the other hand, is something Putin understands.
3
It is utterly despicable the manner in which the UK and US have acted regarding the Skripals poisoning. Condemning a country on a hunch is contrary to everything we and our children have been taught. Furthermore, all semblance of diplomatic decorum has disappeared from both US and UK UN representatives. Furthermore, PM May has acted more like a spoiled child by refusing to talk to Russia and pressuring other EU countries to follow her lead. The UK and US were wrong in removing the diplomats and I'm afraid history will prove it.
5
This is going to escalate and not end well for anyone. Fighting with Kim Jong is one thing. Fighting with China and Putin is a whole different level.
China maybe but bilbo putin and his lunkhead people are a joke.
The last time russia was a world player was back when they launched Sputnik.
They've been coasting or stealing ever since.
Russia is the equivalent of a 30 year old bum still living at home leeching off mom and dad.
2
This nerve agent incident has been reported on for a while now, so many facts are repeated, summarized and put "in context." Nothing wrong with this.
But what I do find surprising is the lack of discussion about what Novichok is.
Maybe the reporters could start off slowly and introduce the subject by discussing phosphoric acid (H3PO4) and mentioning that the phosphorus has a valency of +5. That, of the four oxygens that are attached to the phosphorus, three have single bonds and one has a double bond. Maybe show a stick figure. And then describe how chemists can replace one or more of the oxygens with other elements or groups of elements to make a whole family of molecules. And that this class of molecules are called organophosphates and that they are often used in pesticides.
So, come on NYT. We are literate people, we can handle it!
1
Since the Russians were surveilling the residence, perhaps they will just release footage of the MI6/CIA team in action.
The problem here is not so much the Russians or the question what they did or did not, the problem is expectations of the West.
We still don't know who really is behind the attempt to murder and why.
On a technical issue, these poisons have been in the market for many years after the fall of the USSR and the components can be stored a long time, so any one can use them.
May is deep domestic trouble as the Brexit spells disaster and she needs a foreign enemy to move public focus some where else as nearly all weak politicians do.
Trump. well, Trump is in a world of his own and will do whatever FOX News or Breitbart tell him to do.
But the underlying issue is that in the 1990s the West expected Russia to roll over and submit to Western values and politics as the West had won the Cold War.
That did not happen.
Instead Yeltsin and Putin came along and Russia and lead it onto a path of recovery.
Russia did not fall apart and Russia is still strong even on the path to becoming an economic power again.
Putin may not be liked in the West, but he is more than well liked at home and whatever opposition there is, it is no where near strong enough to be even called an alternative to Putin.
So Putin has to be bad guy.
But consider this, what if Putin falls?
Russia would break apart and fall into chaos just like the Middle East but with massive weapons storages.
So maybe it is time find out who really is the murderer and stop pretending to know who it is.
15
Yes, what a high tech juggernaut those brilliant russians are.
Those russians are top notch economic powerhouses.
Golly, look at 'em go.
Everyone hold up your high tech russian smartphones and laptops.
Better get a spotter russian tech is incredibly heavy.
Their new smartphone even has a calculator.
Next years model wipl come with tic-tac-toe fully installed if those russian geniuses can handle the math.
3
Sounds like Thomas works for the same company that places ads on Facebook for Putin. He doesn’t think Putin is the man behind the murder but maybe May is the one. Looks like Russian disinformation right here in the Times.
4
While I agree, that the Russkies don't have any high tech gadgets, like smartphones and laptops of their own, but neither do the Americans.
Get real.
2
There is no reason to placate a third-rate economic power like Russia. We do not need them economically. We do not need very many (if any) Consular representatives in Russia. There is nothing to talk about. Why Donald Trump refuses to publicly recognize Russia's efforts to undermine our system and destroy its enemies is the big mystery. No one in his right mind acts that way.
3
'we don't need them'.
Sure, Chuckie, if you say so, except you're wrong.
Just ask Boeing and their Titanium purchases from Russia, so that they can make planes.
Ask NASA about the US space program, like access to and from the ISS.
Ask the farmers in the Mid-West about their exports to Russia.
Shall I continue?
4
From reading a number of the comments on this article it sounds like a majority are starting to feel like we're just going to have to do something about Putin, about Russia? That's exactly the objective. To get us feeling it's a necessary evil, but necessary. Get ready for war, the strategy is working great.
2
War?
With russia?
We have 18 aircraft carriers carrying combat-ready fifth-generation fighters.
Russia has one aircraft carrier and they have ZERO fifth generation fighters on it.
Besides, why bother?
Attacking russia at this point would be like pistol whipping a blind kid (props to tropic thunder).
2
The United States should expand economic warfare against Russia. It should open its oil reserves, driving the price of oil down. and starving Russia of cash reserves. It should ban imports from Russia. If the Russian economy falters, the Russian people will drive Putin from power.
It's time to stop babying Putin and Russia.
2
I cannot help but believe this is a theatre of collusion between Putin and Trump to manufacture tension between the two nations in an attempt to further complicate the prosecution of the Trumps and their co-conspirators.
2
"Worst in decades?" The Russians invaded Ukraine, took down the Polish, downed a civilian aircraft, armed NK...sounds like it should have been worse back in 2008-11. But good to see we'll take a stance on Facebook advertisements.
1
I would have just taken the US diplomats out of Russia first before Russia even had a chance.
1
There is NO tension between the U.S. and Russia, or at least not between Trump and Russia. We're watching political professional wrestling. It's a show to demonstrate that our countries are at odds because our world has become the ultimate reality television.
Trump's history in the WWF would give a much better explanation of what's really going on. He kicked out some people as theater and Putin responded in kind. I don't know what will happen in the next episode, but I'm sure it'll be dramatic whether it's real or not.
11
But I hope the FBI and other security are checking the front doors of everyone who has pleaded guilty to Mueller, and the doors of the Mueller investigation team's homes.
Like others posting here, it's hard not to make a connection of the example set forth in England against the Skripals and the Trump investigation. Everyone seems to be puzzled by Russia's motive for their actions against the Skripals, but I'm betting that the Mueller team gets the message. Loud and clear.
Stormy got her message in a parking lot. Mueller, his team, and his stable of witnesses are getting theirs via the Skripals.
1
Talk of the "deep state" forcing Trump's hand is right out of Bannon's play book and aimed at an audience of one - Trump, our gullible Commander-in-Chief. Trump so wants to be liked by Putin and seen as the greatest pal and nice guy. Putin signals that, of course, he doesn't blame The Donald himself (though the suggestion is also that Trump is not really strong like Putin is since he could not stand up to that "deep state," but Trump will likely hear the praise without seeing that it is back handed).
The claims to Russian victimhood are a long standing cultural position in Russia. Her oppressive strongmen have long used it to keep the people focused on the supposed external forces instead of their home-grown misery. It is the saddest kind of solidarity based upon a pride rooted in victimhood rather than in strength and freedom.
6
There are many social and cultural differences between Russia, USA and Europe. TOLERANCE TO DIFFERENCES IS MANDATORY FOR THE SAKE OF WHOLE WORLD. I strongly recommend Mr Trump's like approach to Russia. I also recommend reconsidering DIPLOMACY AT DIGITAL AGE (E-DIPLOMACY?)
Values mater. So does freedom.
The Russian retaliated and took what deemed the right steps, as being expected, to expel the number of US and European diplomats as well as the closure of the US Consulate in St. Petersburg. They cannot be blamed for what they've done in such retaliation as it's been done from both sides. These actions voice the alarm and will further strain the relations betwenn the East and west and will bring the world closer to the bring of the similar cold war previously existed during the Soviet Union Era.
1
I have been half expecting Russia to break off diplomatic relations with Britain, just force them to leave altogether. This would be appropriate for the intemperate behavior of Boris Johnson, indulged before the evidence is in.
Someone in Russia may have done this, but the evidence to prove it either way is not in yet.
Instead, we are told to take it on faith that of course our detested Cold War enemy has done every bad thing imaginable. That is not diplomacy, nor a wise way forward, even if they did it.
Meanwhile, those who should know better are leaping into this with joy, not because it is the right thing to do for the national interest, but because it embarrasses the other side in their domestic partisan games.
Americans deserve better. It is extremely lame when even Trump is behaving more responsibly than those who purport to be the responsible ones.
11
Tensions worst in years? Maybe they look that way. And yet, trump's silence is deafening.
The US goes through the motions of solidarity with its allies, but it's pretty clear that this is against all of trump's inclinations. For all we know he's using back channels to apologize to Putin (Vlad, I had to do this for appearances' sake) while assuring him of his unswerving loyalty.
This behavior only confirms that he is heavily dependent on Russia - for some reason or another.
14
Trump's silence? He just expelled 60 diplomats.
5
I see some irony here (not that I really like irony), having to do with the fact that while Democrats and the possible Hillary Clinton administration would take proper steps regarding the Russian disinformation campaign toward the American electorate, Hillary would be far too prudent to allow diplomatic relations with Russia to deteriorate to this level. I get pushback from relatively moderate friends who say that the Obama administration was "weak," but this is the alternative? Yeah, have fun with that.
8
Maybe, maybe not, but it is the Team Hillary that is now pushing for relations to deteriorate to this level. They do it to spite Trump.
8
"Hillary would be far too prudent to allow diplomatic relations with Russia to deteriorate to this level."
Who are you trying to kid? Hillary brings out her reset button and according to the NY Times Russia attacked the US with their meddling in the elections. Things hit bottom when the Feckless One drew a red line in the sand and that sand was kicked in his face.
1
Team Hillary?
Is that part of the silly right's "deep state" nonsense?
These countries should respond by freezing financial assets held in their territory by non-resident Russian clients and corporations, and their property holdings, until the provenance of the funds used to purchase them can be determined. In cases where it is not possible, unclear, or illegal, they should be seized.
9
Instead of this tit-for tat “we expel your spys and you expel ours” - a useless exercise, how about if the West went after the oligarchs close to Putin? Freeze their assets and all of a sudden, Putin is having to fight a huge internal battle.
It might even give Putin pause in his overt efforts to mess with elections here and in Europe. We just need a president with a spine to make this happen.
So this is probably wishful thinking. The two people Trump fears the most (well, next to Bob Mueller) are Putin and Stormy Daniels.
47
The Trump administration isn't intelligent enough to grasp what you are saying.
1
Only 60?
There is a lot of potential left till on both sides remain only ambasador and one secretary.
In regards to relations between countries and comments here even this is probablly too much.
Usage if nerve agents is very serious crime.
Because of this also proof of gilt should be very firm and not just most likely stile.
1
This is an easy competition if that's what Putin wants to do, Kick out another 120 Russians. If they still don't get the point, join with Europeans to ban all travel to Russia.
5
"If they still don't get the point, join with Europeans to ban all travel to Russia."
Such war-mongering.
1
So...wait! I thought Trump was in bed with Putin. So why is he expelling diplomats, shoring up NATO's readiness, selling arms to the Ukraine and Poland, bombing sites in Syria containing Russian troops, and undermining Russia's oil revenues by having the U.S. pump out more oil?? Better get a new "playbook" Dems.
15
Are you a passenger on the USS Trump? Sorry, but the life preservers are only for his friends, and you aren't one of his friends. Sad.
We do have a new playbook repub.
It's called The Mueller Investigation.
Early reviews says it is dynamite.
1
Why couldn't Russia and its allies simply foreclose on the loans to Trump and Kushner and revoke any promises of exile to those people?
1
Because they're all lies.
1
Posturing and hot steam.
To minimize the bilateral espionage, each country should limit diplomatic representation to the ambassador, his secretary, a valet, cook, and chauffeur.
Then they will have to earn their bread really in the sweat of their brow.
3
I can't throw stones at Russia when the CIA has for decades been going into countries and assassinating or overthrowing elected leaders. And when Britain's divide and rule policy destroyed so many countries. I just don't think the Russians are any worse than we are. We are all evil.
13
what abt mysterious deaths of Iranian Nuclear scientists,the blame for which were laid squarely on Israel by Iran but which was met with deathly silence from the international community.
It might be good, at some point, to learn the history of the last century. If I might advise, start with the pact Molotov signed with Hitler. Or maybe find out what befell the kulaks. Or, gosh darn it, read some Solzenitsyn.
You're sticking up for the so-and-sos who sold the Revolution down the river and are still selling it.
Every headline I'm seeing has described those expelled from Russia as "diplomats." I seem to remember that almost all of the headlines at the time of the US/EU expulsions describing the Russians to be expelled as "intelligence officers" or "spies." Nationalist spin..?
9
Then we should break off all diplomatic communication with them, completely. Let Russia know the kind of leader they have. Putin needs to be put in his place. This man has murdered several people now, on foreign and domestic soil. The murder of Litvinenko with Polonium a few years back should have resulted in worldwide condemnation. This action is already years late.
Russia needs to be put back out in the cold. Their oligarch's wealth seized, property seized, and we should be prepared to go to war with a country that has, once more, a beligerant leader who thinks he can shoot airliners down (remember Malaysian airways?), invade countries like it was the 1940s all over again, and do the Soviet thing with impunity. Well we need to show him we simply won't put up with it.
6
Nose, meet face. Don't cut.
2
Yeah, I am wondering where Putin got his ideas. Maybe, from Americans, who did shoot down. passenger plane (do you remember Iranian one?), who assassinated a number of people including children by drones, and who invaded other countries at will. Poor Putin, he must decide these are new international rules.
1
I just saw something about the gates deal and it occurred to me that this hit on Skirpal might have been done to intimidate/warn off Manafort from making a deal or giving up what he knows about the Russians from his work in Ukraine. It is a lot easier and less dangerous for them to do that in Britain than to do some kind of hit here especially now that he is being monitored.
If my theory is correct then I think the reckless disregard for collateral damage might be a part of the message.
3
That is an entirely plausible theory.
Russia needs to know they are being held in check. And we need to do it. In the long run, we will need a flexible working relationship with them, but only when they know that they have responsibilities on this global stage as well...
1
nom:
Given that it's the USA that illegally invaded Iraq, not held in check, by its own laws, while no evidence points to Russia being the poisoning party here, I more than think it's the USA that needs some form of hold, or at least reflection.
9
The evidence both circumstantial and otherwise is overwhelming - elements of the Russian state carried out the poison attack.
2
Hopefully President Obama had on steel toes shoes as he continually kicked the can down the road on Russia, DACA, North Korea, Iran and many other important international issues.
10
How did Obama kick the can down the road on any one of those subjects?
So surly president draft dodger fixed all those issues by now right comrade?
He fixed the North Korea problem?
Or did he just say he'd talk with l'il kim...kicking the can down the road?
President pornstar fixed DACA?
Funny how we all missed that comrade.
So, how'd he fix it?
And when did president genital grabber write a new agreement with Iran and when did Iran signed on comrade?
Funny how we all missed don trump fixing all those things.
Or is this just another of those silly rightist tantrums?
2
The place we can hurt Russia most is in their pocketbook. Many Americans travel to St Petersburg every summer off of cruise ships where they usually spend two or three days. If these cruise lines would drop this part of their itinerary it would cost them a lot as these tourists all take multiple tours that by law there are directed by Russians.
4
LHS,
I don't think that's the primary source of money in Russia.
And St. Petersbugh is a capital of the world, with a world renown museum--tours, and tourists gonna go.
2
The facts are that most of the intelligence that rolled in confirming Trump's involvement with Russia came from counter-intelligence sources within Russia's Intelligence.
Shortly after Trump had his first briefing with full security clearance and heard all the evidence the 17 security agencies within our Defense and Intelligence agencies and apparatus had already accumulated and reported against him and the GOP, Trump freaked out. He sent Flynn scurrying to Kislyak.
This puppet theater of shutting down embassies actually hurts our intelligence gathering and protects Trump from further disclosures as he tries to forestall impeachment.
What Putin really wants from Trump in return is a war with Iran that will boost the price of oil. Putin will pretend he's against that, but no country will benefit more than Russia. We are still being played. John Bolton's appointment cements that.
8
If I was Putin, I'd have expelled 61 Americans. THAT would be am escalation warranting a serious response. This is all posturing, not action.
5
And after people are done expelling diplomats, what will have changed and why? Perhaps others understand this. I confess that I do not.
11
This attack was horrendous and the perpetrators must be found and punished. That said, I find it difficult to believe that the Russian government would commit an act like this with a rare nerve agent knowing what the international reaction would be.
It's time for the British government to disclose why they claim the Kremlin and Putin was involved in this act, necessitating that they have proof that the Russians were probably involved is grossly insufficient given the increasing tensions.
17
The Russians do not worry about being caught. Their aim is chaos. What’s more, they want us to know the power they have and all that they can do. Overt, not covert, use of power is how they think they can triumph. And to a degree it works. Look, they have you questioning something because it seems too obvious. That’s how they succeed; they are bullies and they want us to know it.
8
"That said, I find it difficult to believe that the Russian government would commit an act like this with a rare nerve agent knowing what the international reaction would be."
Yeah, they probably expected another red line in the sand, so it makes no sense they would go up against that again. You betcha.
1
The Russian government has systematically eliminated its enemies one by one. Politkovskaya killed by rogue elements in her elevator? Litvinenko poisoned by polonium in a London hotel? Berezovski hanged himself? Others who "jumped" out windows? Come on.
Who has access to a military grade chemical weapon produced in the USSR? And who has any reason to assassinate a retired Russian spy living peacefully in a foreign country?
1
Oh my, looks like I will have to cancel my planned vacation to Siberia. And give up caviar and borscht too? Oh such a harsh sentence. There goes three things I would never do or buy anyway. The entire population of the planet should boycott everything Russian until they punt Putin.
8
In that case whole world is supposed to boycott every NATO country as they bombed independent country and killed thousands of innocent people with no approval of UN nor any other international body than NATO itself. Not to mention prosecuting them for their deeds.
5
This is a little "pas de deux" Putin and Trump are doing to the tune of the Mueller investigation. "See? We're not really buddy-buds! Vlad couldn't
possibly have anything on Don or Don wouldn't be so unspeakably mean to Vlad!"
Meanwhile a very small number of semi-dubious Russians get to go home, where friends and family await,
8
trumps action brought about by euro leaders. they forced hom into a corner where he had to comply or be seen as not being an ally.
5
What to expect? That Russia would not respond? That the US finds the Russian response "regrettable, unwarranted" defies credulity and is beyond ludicrous. The US (Trump's) actions were intended to mollify the Trump-hating globalists, who see a poisoning (no pun intended) of the relationship with Russia as payback for his election victory. The ball is now back in the US/Britain court, and if they spurn Lavrov's call for a full, impartial, and open investigation into the matter it will become apparent that this event in all likelihood was a false flag designed to create the tensions that now exist. This cynicism can only lead us down the road to perdition.
8
Is trump going to apologize to Putin for this breach of "trust" in Soviet-US relations? We kick your people out and in return, you kick our people out. Is this serious or just for show?
4
This is just for show, a well-scripted farce placed across continents.
The real story is what happed a few days after Miss Universe 2013.
A hotel, a couple of women of ill-repute, and a camera that rolled all night long..
The word is "kompromat".
Something that Vladimir excels in.
10
Ronald Reagan, whom the Republicans have revered as if he were a saint, gave a spot-on speech during his presidency in which he called out the Soviet Union, in vivid terms, for its reprehensible behavior on the world stage since WWII.
The Soviet Union is no more, but Russia, just like a leopard, cannot change its spots. Its behavior is still reprehensible (Syria, state-sponsored doping at the Sochi Olympics, rigged elections, using a banned nerve agent to poison a former spy and his daughter, etc.), and yet Trumpsky’s base seems to be utterly unfazed by this as long as Trumpsky pretends that all is well.
November 2018 cannot come soon enough.
8
ALB:
To which election rigging are you referring?
How do you know Russia used a banned nerve agent, how do you know Russia poisoned the Skripals? Because Ms May says so?
Do you have any idea what concrete evidence looks like?
Syria? Right, Russia helped the internationally recognized government mostly defeat 2 or 3 gangs of Sunni extremists. You pick really "good" sides.
4
"Ronald Reagan, whom the Republicans have revered as if he were a saint, gave a spot-on speech during his presidency in which he called out the Soviet Union, in vivid terms, for its reprehensible behavior on the world stage since WWII. "
Syria? Obama left that in a total mess - almost as bad as the regime change in Libya. What do you expect the US to do? I'll tell you. Nothing.
1
It's quite interesting that you selectively offer verbal assaults in defense of Russia, Syria and other rogue dictatorships. How do you spell DEMOCRACY, Yaj? Oh, I forgot, even in America, fools can voice their ill-informed robust opinions.
1
So liberals are in a quandary, they claimed that Trump and Putin are best buddies and that Trump was in Putins back pocket. Now were have the worst relations with Russia since the cold war. So is Trump, Putins buddy or not?
4
If Putin admitted responsibility for the attack and said that it is a warning for any others who would betray mother Russia—
What would be different, since we know that Russia is behind the attack. Would it even make a difference in the diplomatic responses?
4
The the expulsions of US diplomats coincided with the recovery, of Yulia Skripal seems to be more than coincidence. Most chemical nerve agent induce muscular paralysis. Being out of critical condition means being able to give testimony.
5
That is nonsense. This completely reciprocal action by Russia does not "intensify" anything. Nor does it raise any "prospects of continuing escalation". Any intensifying or escalating, should it happen, will be entirely on the West. Of course, that is exactly what the West wanted in the first place. We should ask ourselves a question - what is the purposes of that campaign.
5
David: Let me take a guess at your question.....getting the support of the American people and the EU to our increased involvement in Syria, where we will have to take on the Russians to achieve the overthrow of Syrias president, Assad. Regime change is still the agenda, IMHO
Russian oligarchs have been ruining the Russian economy for twenty years or so.
They keep a portion of their citizens loyal by standing up to the West.
The US is not as bad but certainly we can see the similar economic results from 35 years of trickle-down Reaganomics and libertarian influence.
3
The Cold War resumed when KGB agent Putin returned to power the second time as full-on dictator. Now maybe there is chance of that new Cold War not being waged mainly on Putin's terms.
The caliber of US leadership is, however, not comparable to that during the earlier Cold War, when Truman, Eisenhower and Kennedy were at the helm (not Harry Gross, Bobby Baker or Jimmy Hoffa).
2
Candidate Trump wanted better relations with Russia but it seems he was alone in that sentiment.
Now the anti-Russia crowd have decided to go after both Putin and Trump. Trump has caved. I somehow doubt that either Putin or the Russian people will cave.
7
Russians do not see what happened the way the West does. It appears to them as another great victory for Putin over the Western powers all out to get innocent Russians.
1
Tit for tat, the usual chess game of so-called diplomacy when things are going badly. Not to worry, as except for consulates a lot of those expelled are spies, not diplomats. The worry is what will happen next. With Russia no longer a superpower, Putin may decide he has to push harder to show his power. That is worrisome.
1
This administration has alienated countries north, south, east and west of our land mass.
This administration has alienated long term allies and sought to make friends with dictators.
Can we afford to destroy America in order to meet this administrations mantra of: make America great again?
3
That is nonsense. This completely reciprocal action by Russia does not "intensify" anything. Nor does it raise any "prospects of continuing escalation". Any intensifying or escalating, should it happen, will be entirely on the West. Of course, that is exactly what the West wanted in the first place. We should ask ourselves a question - what is the purposes of that compaign.
4
They deserve it. Tensions should be high with the continued disgusting behavior of these Russian leaders...supporting world terrorism of their own brand. Hacking, bots, prostitutes and election tampering...their forte. SO let them expel the American diplomats, we are better rid of them until someone does what Putin does so well...that is get rid of him. One can hope.
4
That Trump hasn’t said boo about this publicly speaks volumes about him being Putin’s poodle. I count the days until Mueller connects all the dots.
10
Why aren't we freezing all russian assets parked here??.Anyone that even smells slightly dirty[like every russian that has laundered money thru real estate}should have their assets[apts. and houses bought from anyone named trump or kusher} seized.That would hit them where it hurts.
8
I get so confused. I thought we were colluding with the Russians :)
7
how about a travel ban on Russians coming into this country?
8
I am happy to see the West wake up to the actions of a bully thug, the head of a kleptocracy who thinks he can play his rotten KGB games in other peoples' homes. I hope the Russian people understand it is the behavior of their leaders that we object to, and that the west has nothing against Russia per se. We welcome normal relations with a Russia free of oligarchic criminality at the highest level.
7
Really? Because it seems like the West don't mind Russian oligarchs at all even supports them (Khodorkovsky, remember?) as long as they opposed Putin.
BTW, where is Trump? Hiding deep into his own swamp?
3
I think most people in the West could care less about Russia. Russia had an opportunity to become wealthy and respected among Western nations. That opportunity is lost for the foreseeable future. I guess they must enjoy punk despotism and poverty. Fine with me.
10
Yeah, I guess these opportunity was killed by pro-Western leaders Gorbachev and Yeltsin and their friends pro-Western oligarchs.
In a recent article, the Pentagon and Dr. Hoffman of the National Defense University expressed concerned about how to combat Russia’s use of “hybrid warfare,”; stealth invasion, local proxy forces, international propaganda, conventional/unconventional forces, information warfare, propaganda, and economic measures to undermine its enemies when it annexed Crimea and destabilize eastern Ukraine.
Like the Russians, the GOP are using the very same “hybrid warfare”
The GOP & Trump, following the direction of Joseph Goebbels who said that by repeating a few very specific ideas and understanding the psychology of the people concerned you could make them believe that a square is in fact a circle by just using words, and words can be molded to disguise intent. The purpose of propaganda isn’t to be intellectually pleasing or to control a few mindless people but instead, conquer the broad masses. They also use the wordsmithing of Dr. Frank Luntz, who understands how to use words that insight people to act purely on emotions and without all of the facts, manipulate people to act against their own needs.
Walker goes to Germany & England and 47 senators send a letter to the leader of Iran, Bush goes to Estonia (Russia).
The GOP uses gerrymandering, voter restrictions, limiting information freedoms, economic warfare defunding the country’s budget, destabilizes the country using fear tactics, provoking: racism, hyper-right religion, confederacy.
The GOP likes dictators…Trump!
13
What Americans would want to live in Russia? :-/
3
I am a U.S. citizen and I want to and do live in Russia. Not the cartoonish Russia that is created in the imagination of people in the U.S. who have never been here by propagandists and the press. The real Russia, which I am happy to say, does not resemble these imaginings. There are more than 50,000 of us U.S. citiznes here, according to the U.S. Embassy.
That's weird. How could tensions with Russia be the worst in years? I thought reading the NY Times, working in my well-timed virtually signalling ranting against Trump at the right gallery openings, and d loyally watching CNN and MSNBC that Trump is simply a Putin stooge who is wrapped around his finger. At least, that's been the Democratic Party progressive line since his election ... uh, since he and a cabal of Russian operatives stole the election from poor hapless Hillary, that is. Say it ain't so NYT? What gives?
10
Nice. Oligarch Mob gets their tv stooge because so many American voters are clueless and now Said Stooge has to pretend any of this mess matters to him.
3
I think the best course of action for Russia is for them to reveal the dirt they have on Trump. Personally I would support deportation for all Russians and a ban on all their travel to the USA. Build that wall!
1
Fascinating. I think core U.S. values have definitely taken a beating if you are willing to make such suggestions on the basis of allegations and no proof. Looking more like the Soviet Union every day/
Welcome home, boys and girls. Now, with whom shall we replace you?
2
Yawn. Who cares? The toothless US actions are being followed by an equally inept response by the Russkies. Much ado about nothing. This changes very little. And Trump is keeping his name out of it. I suppose he still hopes to build a Trump Hotel in Moscow.
3
Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin's smiling smirking twinkle eyed face tells all. Making an aging shrinking nation of 145 million people great again has inspired and united his nation. Despite America having a GDP that is 15x Russia and spending 9x Russia on it's military, Putin has baffled and befuddled the last three Presidents of the United States.
5
Putin did more than baffle and befuddle Obama/Clinton...
I think the polite expression is: Putin owned them.
2
@Jp
Putin owned Bush who imagined that he got a sense of his soul. And Putin owned Obama who dismissed his nation as a regional power needing a reset while Putin interfered in the 2016 election. Putin owns Trump who is grateful to him for his election and fearing him exposing Trump's collusion, collaboration, cooperation and conspiracy.
Clinton owned Yeltsin.
1
The Democratic and Liberal smirks are gone.
Romney was right and Obama wrong about Russia.
7
Now that independent agency OPCW is investigating the NYT and other publications are climbing down from statements such as "Russia certainly did it and Putin approved it." to "Russia probably did it and Putin probably approved it.". The jury is still out and only time will tell.
1
Completely cut off their access to western banking and they'll come crawling back like wet puppies.
8
what about the space station ??
1
Trump doesn't care - he knows everything anyway. Who needs a State Department? Now he can spend even more millions on his golf outings! DUMP TRUMP!
3
The West is slowly waking up to what Vladimir Putin means when he says he wants to restore the former Soviet Union. We're entering a new 21st century Cold War being fought not by an arms race and wars of national liberation, but with cyber-attacks and the use of social media to destabilize Western democracies, as we're still investigate with Russian interference in our recent presidential election, and targeted assassinations amounting to chemical warfare that have been occurring in Great Britain for over a decade. As with the last war, it will be won by economics and not weapons. The West under the NATO umbrella must marshal a full-scale economic response to Russia by freezing all of its assets, establishing a trade embargo, and banning travel. This is the only way to counterattack the Russian kleptocracy and to force it to negotiate an end to its hacking, tolls, and continued involvement in Ukraine. Sadly, given the absence of American leadership under Donald Trump, it will fall to the European Union to rescue itself and us by taking the lead in this new Cold War. It's time for them to invoke Article 5.
3
The poisoning, although it appears to have been aimed at the Skripals, in affect hit a major nerve in the West. Syrian civilians no doubt could relate. Assasins lit a spark in Salisbury. Sanctions yes, cool heads yes. Keep the hoods on the hawks.
5
Highly likely Brits trying to divert attention from their brexit issues ...
5
Liquidating a double agent seems normally like what many country’s spies probably understand is SOP for their betrayal, but killing their daughter as well takes the action of Russia beyond the pale, justifying our retaliation for the sake of the innocent child. That being said, why is our own swift and decisive response so over this whereas when 17 of our own get gunned down in Florida it’s totally nonexistent? Bump stocks is the best we can come up with to avenge those deaths? Pathetic.
3
"... killing their daughter as well ..."
If you are referring to Yulia Skripal, she "is no longer in critical condition".
It is not entirely clear how the poison was delivered, but the latest report says that a nerve agent was "on the front door of Mr. Skripal’s house." That does not mean that Yulia was also a target, because she "had been visiting him [her father] from Russia", which seems to mean that she did not live with him.
Anyway, assassinations don't always go as planned. American drone attacks have frequently killed people who were not the target.
Quotes are from Times articles.
The alarming side of the story is that since any possible chemical incidence is automatically blamed on Russia, then now anyone anywhere can attempt a chemical crime without much concern about possible following punishment: it will be on Russia anyway.
Have a good weekend everybody ...
6
"... any possible chemical incidence is automatically blamed on Russia ..."
Wrong. The victims have been former Russian intelligence agents or critics of Putin.
Further, the Novichok nerve agents were developed in the Soviet Union. For a history of Novichok, see:
"War of nerves : chemical warfare from World War I to al-Qaeda" by Jonathan B. Tucker.
1
vs:
Far too subtle there.
And? There are 15 new states in place of the ussr. Russia is only one of them. So all of them had the equal access to the agent. Moreover, the West helped to secure the agent therefore the West had access to the agent as well.
It is very important to punish Russia for its assassinations on foreign soil. This has been going on since Czarist times. In 1914, Russia's assassination of the Austrian Archduke Ferdinand led to two World Wars. But Russia escaped blame because the actual shooting was masterminded by a Serbian agent, who in 1903 had killed the king of Serbia for Russia's benefit. Even today the history books blame the archduke's assassination on a young Serbian fanatic. For details see my book "Twelve American Wars."
1
Should we first to see the proof that Russia indeed behind this assassination? And just to point out, the US routinely assassinate people on foreign soil, should the US be punished?
Memo to to all the "government is THE problem" acolytes...
THIS is what happens when you trash government, elect a corrupt know-nothing president (not really elected, I know), trash the State Department (leaving it absurdly understaffed at all levels), hire know-nothing and/or partisan zealot buffoons as Sec of State, and talk about making some war-mongering chicken-hawk like Bolton "National (In)Security Adviser!
Most of this "crisis" has been exacerbated by the UTTER AND COMPLETE LACK OF LEADERSHIP by the USA in international diplomacy (or anything else!) for the last year.
5
We should break all relations with the oligarchs, pull diplomats, businesspeople, NGOs, tourists, and send everyone in the USA with a russian passport or visa back to the homeland.
total reset.
then we can all sit down and talk about assassinations, money laundering, corruption, rigged elections, graft, hacking, cyberwarfare and other points of friction without any encumberments.
end the charade. these people are all criminals. start from scratch, with that assumption.
1
We have 60 diplomats in Russia?
I may be in a minority, but I believe that what the Russians did during our election, by helping a complete numbskull to become our President, was an act of war. I would like to see the Western nations completely isolate Russia, kick-out their so called diplomats (spies), close our embassies, and confiscate any holdings that the Russians have in our banks, including real estate holdings. Let them enjoy their vodka and KGB boss. Treat them as a pariah nation. Refuse their citizens entry into our nations. The only thing the Russian government respects is strength and brutality. They will tire of their little dictator soon enough, and after a respectable length of time, maybe, be allowed back into the civilized world.
4
I think Americans should grow up and take full responsibility for whom they elected, not to try to find somebody to blame for American choice.
The oligarchs, plutocrats and kleptocrats in both our nations are in control of our governments with trump doing the best he can to minimize real penalties our government can impose on Russia. Kicking diplomats out has no consequence on the free flow of laundered money and illicit wealth between the elite.
How would Putin respond if the West recklessly poisoned the ten spies on Russian soil they got back in exchange for Skripal?
Any real sanctions by trump on Russia, and the oligarchs and Putin will call in their loans from trump - or face a mysterious demise. They have no qualms about shooting airliners out of the sky with impunity, invading countries with impunity and using cruel and inhuman chemical weapons on thousands of civilians in Syria and the West with impunity. Time to confiscate all their wealth abroad in Western countries.
With Republicans, under NRA control, in charge of our government and Jared likely having set up a covert comm-channel to the Kremlin, the Russians will continue to have a formidable spy presence in our country coordinated from the WH. One only needs to witness the GOP's deflection, defense of the Russian attack on our democracy that helped them all get elected and top most secrets given to Russians withing the oval office.
Like trump, Putin is a petulant little brat and bully punching others as long as they cower. When someone unexpectedly punches back, putting him in is his place, he will learn. It's time for the West to punch back.
4
It is difficult to know how accurate sources are in some of the stories I read, but I feel the need to convey a distressing interview I listened to on The Intercept with James Risen, who used to work at the NYTs, "Bonus Intercepted Podcast: Jim Risen Goes Inside the NSA’s Secret Channel to Russia". In this interview he claims that many in the CIA are reluctant to gather foreign intelligence on Russia-Trump because it puts their agency at risk of a purge. And then I read a story like this one about how tensions are at the worst in a very long time. The only conclusion I can come to is that there are agencies within our government that have mismanaged these relations so badly that we are in the state we are now, kind of like how in the run up to 9/11, intelligence had a lot of "chatter" and warnings about Osama Bin Laden, but politicians did nothing about it.
This is maddening and frustrating. We are a nation that stands for democracy and freedom. Our institutions must fight to defend us at all times. Otherwise what was the point of all that history that led to the creation of democracy? Where are the patriots?????
2
Putin has stated that the political tragedy of the 20th century was the fall of the USSR and he lived through it. He has certainly been trying to show the world how great Russia is. He takes over Crimea, puts in Russian mercenaries in the Ukraine, starts a war in Georgia all in an effort to restore Russia to greatness and to show the west who is the boss. And the west has done nothing in retaliation.This latest ex-spy killing has given the west a wake up call and they have retaliated by ousting Russians. now the tit for tat. Putine needs to be put back in his box!!!
1
Every single one of those actions you mention taken by Russia is in direct RESPONSE to American adventurism pushing up against Russia. You could add Syria to the list. Russia is there legally by invitation of the Syrian government. Too bad if you do not like this UN recognized government. The US has invaded yet another country and is occupying it ILLEGALLY! We Americans are not The Good Guys you pretend us to be. We have plenty of innocent blood on our hands.
Our politicians, the media, the deep state, etc. are putting our people at risk. You cannot push a country into a corner and not expect them to push back. I know I will NOT vote for anyone who is presently in office. I am sick of spending our precious resources on war and belligerency. Meanwhile China is moving ahead.
4
Why did we even wait for Russia to respond? As soon as we announced we were expelling Russian diplomats we should have recalled 100% of ours.
3
but how we will spy on Russia?
I think our government knows the consequence when we expelled the Russian foreign diplomats. So the expel of our own people in Russia is expected. Not too surprising. But I think the Russian government is either stupid or incompetent. Why would they think they can get away by poisoning their own people on foreign soil without consequence? Maybe Russian government due to our sanctions is in financial crisis and they need to withdraw their diplomats to save money. I still don't understand why Russia did this. On the other hand, Putin is no dummy. Why would he order that?
You are correct to question why Russia would do this. Perhaps someone who wants to wage a war of serious harassment on Russia to damage their power might do such a thing. It's working, right?
Same with the chemical attacks in Syria. One of the most serious incidents occurred only days after Assad invited a dozen UN weapons inspectors, right under their noses. That doesn't add up to the Syrian government doing it, but those that want to overthrow his regime- the regime changers, maybe..?
What good would a hotline do? It would only go to the president. What could he do, during an emergency, when the aim would be avoiding escalation, making sure things don't spiral out of control, and keeping tensions from rising?
It was Mr. Trump's inexplicable and deeply troubling weakness vis-à-vis Russia that gave Mr. Putin every reason to believe he could get away with anything. Now Russia's relationship with the rest of the world is worse than it has been in decades.
Mr. Trump has still done nothing to stop ongoing and future Russian interference in our elections. He has still not made a public statement condemning Russia's assassination attempt on British soil.
Thank you, Mr. Trump. You are incompetent, ignorant, corrupt, and possibly a traitor. Thank you, Trump voters. You are amazing. Thank you, House and Senate Republicans. You have abandoned your Constitutional oversight duties.
2
Cynicism is democracy's greatest enemy. Like everyday I think when I look to our southern neighbour. I ask, Is this for real or more theatre?
Whether it comes from the White House, your Congress, your Supreme Court or the Kremlin up here it is as credible as the Martians have landed.
Still just symbolic. Putin and his fellow kleptocrats need to feel some financial pain.
1
It is called the law of unintended consequences. Putin should have thought more carefully before deciding to install an immoral narcissist in the White House and intentionally destroying American democracy. Now the chickens are coming back to roost. This is nothing compared with what Russia can expect from the US, as this turns into an autocratic third-word country. Putin didn`t like Hillary, and expected Trump to be on his side? Little did Putin knew about the nature of snakes.
"Putin didn`t like Hillary, and expected Trump to be on his side? "
No.
Put your circular arguments away.
This is hardly a problem. We have the master negotiator as our president. He can fix anything. Just look at his record. If there's a greater trail of wreckage anywhere on Earth I'd like to hear about it.
2
Perhaps this will be the wake-up call to Trump; Putin and Russia are NOT our friends. We should try to maintain a relationship with them, but until they start following international laws, we should let them know we stand with our true allies in Europe and the U.K.
1
Putin and the Russians will eventually reacquire control over all of the former Soviet Union, except for the Baltics. We had better get used to it.
The longer this dispute goes on and the more severe it becomes the more likely it will be that a Moscow-Beijing Axis will emerge to threaten all of Eurasia. That is a much worse outcome for us than an independent Eurasian Union, which is really what this dispute is about. The United States and the EU are terrified of a new Soviet Union emerging in North Central Eurasia. Such an entity will shut Western firms out of Eurasia's vast resources, for good, and the West would like to have those resources for itself.
We'd be better off trading them their union in return for a promise from them not to form an Axis with Beijing. They might form such an Axis anyways, but some goodwill on our behalf would at least lend support to the pro-Western and pro-Nationalist factions in the Kremlin. At present, all we are managing to do is support the positions of the pro-Chinese faction, and that's the last thing we should want to do.
Nothing in the world compares to the threat to the United States from China. Yet, again and again, all we hear about is the Russian menace. It makes me wonder whether this is all part of some convoluted plot by the Chinese to push America into pushing Russia into China's orbit. The Chinese do hold a significant amount of our government's debt, after all...
2
Putin likely thought recrimination from these recent acts would be similar to those when he willfully and openly interfered with our elections. Maybe a basket of flowers from Trump? He must have been laughing heartily when Trump called to congratulate him for his 'fake' election days after he had attacked the sovereignty of Great Britain only days before. Hopeful the easy street he's been walking is coming to an end thanks to allies refusing to capitulate to his tyranny. Even our own Congress, the majority of which who've done nothing about his attacks on our own sovereignty, were finally shamed into action. History will not be kind to them or their Don.
Putin realizes his puppet is in trouble in the USA. He thinks of a way to make his puppet look independent. Idea: concoct a situation in which the puppet will do something to prove his own patriotism, but not so serious as to harm Russia (Putin). Aha, the scheme unfolds, an obscure old Russian agent turned double-agent is killed under circumstances which demand action, Trump acts, expels a meaningless troup of Russian “spies”, thus demonstrating his fidelity to the USA, Trump and Putin kick back, enjoy a long-distance toast and all’s well.
OK, so I’m a mega-conspiracy theorist. Still, if it smells like a duck....
It seems West doesn't care about truth or justice anymore. Blame Putin for everything and be happy )
Someone had blundered ))
2
Is Russia the Bankers for the Trump Corporation?
If not who is?
To me this sounds like a swap: sixty of ours for sixty of theirs.
1
So long as Russia acts like a murderer, it should be treated as an pariah nation. Its embassy and consulates in the US should be entirely shut down, and Russian diplomats traveling to the UN in NYC should be sent home and prevented from entering the country.
1
Tensions are worst in decades? I don't understand. The New York Times told me that Trump is just a puppet and Putin in pulling the strings. Stephen Colbert told me that Trump's mouth is only good as Putin's... well, I'm too embarrassed to say it. Were you all wrong?
4
"Tensions are worst in Decades"?? Prove it. You call swapping diplomats "Tensions"? Until I hear one word, just one word of criticism of any knd from Trump about Russia or Putin I refuse to live in your dream world.
Russia is going to keep on telling lies because the only opinion that is of value to them is the Russian public who believes them.
1
Sure would like to know what it is going to take for Trump to personally call Russia out.
Trump will be proving that he is not collided till a nuclear war.
1
this us not trumps fault. this is being driven by the euro leaders. trump acted because they backed him into a corner. and to not act would have drawn the ire of the dems who would be screaming about trump collusion and friendship with putin/russia. yet even when he does act in line with the rest of the world leaders dems criticise him.
5
He can do whatever he wants, our "very stable genius" loves colorful actions. Pressure? T May uses this event in her own favor, EU wants money for BrExit, EU wants a lesson. Putin has no motive, it's why he is the main looser in this event.
Russia is still attacking America with social media. The US Government has not fought back. With Brexit, olympic doping, nerve gas attacks, the Mueller investigation, this is going to get a whole lot worse.
3
"Russia is still attacking America with social media."
Ridiculous.
Soros and his clique are attacking America 1,000,000 times more and with worse consequences that "Russia attack".
Putin must need that fossil fuel revenue blocked by existing sanctions real bad, huh? Is he militarizing to stimulate his country's economy in place of it? Are these shows of strength by a leader who is actually fearful? What is the state of the Russian economy, anyway?
Escalation is a wrong strategy here. Next options appears to be a military ones. Direct confrontation with Russia implies you taking chances about your own existence. The only option that I can see for the west here is a war of attrition(Cold War) but it will take a time and you might lose too History not always repeats itself the way we want it. But you will be alive - which is nice isn’t?
9
who backed putin into this corner? the European leaders. what reaction did you expect?
Reaction on what? Poisoning? It is not based on facts neither investigation was completed. And why USA bother more about this case then British who don’t actually presented any evidence and known to fake Iraq WMD case in 2003 together with USA?
Since the break-up of the Soviet Union I was like most Americans fairly indifferent to Russia. Now that they have meddled in our democratic process, I hate Russia with the intensity of 1000 suns. They have declared war on us, and the sooner that all Americans realize it, the faster we can defeat this enemy.
3
Putin has the attitudes of Trump - or maybe Trump has Putin’s - so his doing outrageous things and then lashing out when he is caught should be no surprise to us. The ongoing question is why Trump makes no personal statements about Putin and his actions. I find it harder and harder to avoid the conclusion that Putin owns Trump. I hope that Mueller finds out how before Trump fires him.
But back to what should we and our Western allies do next. Any diplomatic actions have easy counter-actions. We have to hope that military actions aren’t taken, although it’s easy to imagine that Putin is probing to see if we will respond with force if he attacks the rest of Ukraine or the Baltic countries. The one thing that he can’t counter in kind is sanctions and forfeitures of his wealth and that of his cronies. So we (the USA and our Western allies) should all take those steps, and no, not just against the list that Mnuchin got from the Mueller indictments. We should go after the real monied interests in Russia, the Putin crony oligarchs. And the USA should be ready with natural gas when the Russians cut off Europe. The real question is whether Trump will act against his investors, the ones that probably hold the key to understanding Trump’s failure to hold Putin accountable for his attacks on the USA. Will Trump ever act “presidential ”? Will he ever put the USA ahead of his personal wealth and whatever other vulnerabilities they have over him?
23
this is the uk's fight. remember this is over the poisoning of skripal. this is not our fight. where was Theresa may over the alleged election meddling? and honestly, I have trouble calling posting of misinformation "election meddling". are we Americans so stupid or so lazy that we feel we have a right to believe EVERYTHING we read on social media? if so then we.are.dome for as a society.
1
Really, does Trump have to make every single thing worse? He claims to want better relations with Russia so of course everything goes haywire. Consider this just one more fail in Trump's life filled with endless fails.
1
He could roll oyt another Reset Button. How'd that workout for you?
Does this mean the Bromance is over?
"President Trump, who has long been loath to criticize Mr. Putin or his government, has made no public statement on the nerve-agent attack or who was to blame for it."
Breaking up is hard to do...
Anything that can be asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence.
Thus I reject the Russian poison story .
Hitchens Razor
10
Don’t tell that to MSNBC. They won’t have any shows left to air.
3
You and Trump both
The CIA's has amassed an impressive list of failures over the years. The same agency that told us WMD were in Iraq and recently failed in Ukraine is now telling us Putin oversaw an election meddling ring. Maybe so. But they haven't shared any convincing evidence of this. A 17 page report, indicting thirteen Russian for FB ads, and a bunch of intelligence brass degrees is hardly persusavie.
I have less confidence in them now (which I thought impossible after Iraq) after watching Clapper and Brennan politic on cable news. It wasn't long ago Brennan was spying on Congress and Clapper was lying about surveillance -hardly the behavior of neutral, public servants.
Trump's dishonestly does not make these agencies trustworthy.
11
Actually, it wasn't the CIA that told us Iraq had WMD, it was all the neo-cons. And they also manipulated the CIA findings on aluminum tubes, yellow cake, etc.
Also, Netanyahu testified before Congress that Iraq had centrifuges as small as washing machine.
1
The only thing Trump has succeeded at is demonstrating how quickly one man can destroy eight years of prosperity and American goodwill throughout the world. Now he has even managed to alienate Putin. How much more "winning" can we survive?
1
Let's say for a minute that Putin didn't order the chemical attack on Skripal -if the nerve agent was Novichok and controlled by Russia, then they lost control of this weapon, or someone within government committed this attack without high level authorization. Either way, it shows Russia has a real problem. That being said, its hard to believe something this egregious happened without Putin's approval. Putin has become more and more brazen in trying to punish his enemies - murdering and jailing opposition figures and journalists who would expose him or his cronies. It's high time the West started seriously penalizing them. Russia is on the verge of becoming a rogue state on par with North Korea. While heightened tensions are not good, Russia has only themselves to blame. It's hard to see how things are going to turn around anytime soon.
Mr. Skri[pal was attacked on March 4 and, according to this article, he's still in "critical condition" today? 25 days later. Maybe, but that sounds a bit odd. Is he still too sick to tell us what happened? What about his daughter? We hope they both recover soon, not only because we wish them well but because they are , as far as we know - the only witnesses to the attack and the only ones who can tell us how they were attacked and perhaps by whom and why.
Russia is an independent country and will do what it sees fit. Settle down.
5
Heh heh, is that why it’s attempted to ape European culture for the past few centuries?
1
For the same reason that the U.S apes multiculturalism.
Trumps's silence is blasting my eardrums. Strange that he's said nothing about this. Gee, I wonder why?
1
This Salisbury thing makes absolutely NO sense at all. I still do not understand the motive here, and without a motive, there may well not be a crime. Seems to me this whole thing is just a little bit too convenient.
Trump is absolutely no good to the neocons, because nobody is going to follow that goof into war. So let's have an "incident" in England, so Theresa May can become the next Thatcher and all the warmongers now have a credible spokesperson. Voila!
That's what this looks like to me anyway. Putin did not do this. It doesn't make any sense that he would. He released the guy from prison, and then several years later he poisons him right before the Russian election and the World Cup? Nah.
Also interesting that this took place right next to Porton Down where GB has their chemical weapons labs.
10
So, if we expel Trump does that mean that Putin will expel 6"1" US Diplomats?
2
Only Russia and or Trump can do something really bad and then blame the rest of the world for treating them accordingly. Of course the two know each other, intimately.
1
How did this happen? Candidate Trump suggested that he and Putin were tight. We'd get along, friends-like. Remember?
4
yeah what happened? i thought trump was a russian puppet / spy colluding ? what happened to that liberal narrative?
the leaders of Europe brought us to this.
" Candidate Trump suggested that he and Putin were tight. We'd get along, friends-like. Remember?"
Actually that was asserted more by the NY Times and Trumps opponents. So much for that.
So how many "diplomats " do we have in Russia ?, and visa-versa, I'd venture somewhere in the hundreds ,if not thousands, so 20 here 60 there? Whats the point? Start up that old "Cold War" to justify increased military spending? Bring it on, I'm a boomer ,I'm conditioned.
2
If you really want to hurt Russia, pass laws requiring the owners of all real estate to identify themselves, to end criminal money laundering through shell companies and anonymous trusts. When the people using real estate to hide ill-gotten gains start worrying about being found out, the leaders they bankroll will start shutting up and behaving themselves. Congress should do this, and so should the British Parliament.
13
All these Russian trolls here commenting . . . enough !
Putin is a clever, well-trained KGB mobster-in-chief. He initiated this subversive strategy 10 years ago of cyber hacking and then false social media influence.
1. Double down on the economic sanctions on Russia -- especially those sectors rife with Kremlin oligarch/mobster ownership.
2. Close access to Western banks for all those oligarchs who are associated with the Kremlin.
These tit for tat expulsions and embassy closing are silly and deliver minimal damage to Putin.
5
Amusing how the people of the U.S. no longer tolerate any difference of opinion. So much for freedom of speech.
Children, please.
7
Hopefully Putin takes home the appropriate lessons here and backs off on the cyberbullying.
Trump is a Kremlin stooge. The GOP base is OK with that.
7
It's a Ploy by the Russians to make it look like they are retaliating against the U. S. when in fact it is a red herring to hopefully pull attention away from their Stooge in the WH..
4
It is time to go to war with Russia.
Predictable and triggered by the moronic statements and actions by the Tory government in the UK. Russia- and Putin-bashing are counterproductive and stupid, but this is where the world is.
9
Right. It was triggered by the Tory government and not the FSB trying to assassinate someone on foreign soil.
And your proof of FSB involvement is???
Both Putin and his asset, Donald Trump, need to watch the Americans in order to get a grip on reality.
1
Putin gave Trump the election, and this is the thanks he gets?
4
MAGA Trump style - improved relations and standing across the globe....NOT
Sixty diplomats and their families are a lot people and expense.
We should send Russia a thank you and an Amazon gift card.
2
Maybe if Putin didn't murder journalists, business people, spies, and his political opponents, or tamper in elections throughout the first world, or launder tens of billions, or violate arms treaties or the oil for food program, or threaten us with nuclear weapons, or steal assets from western corporations, or poison their employees, or...... he would find the west a fertile playground for his billions. As it is? We are going to have sanction Russia. Because it's no fun to be a billionaire if you can only buy beets and vodka. Who knows maybe one of the oligarchs will murder Putin. Putin should read some Russian history.
1
Very impressive that a unilateral eviction of Russian eyes and writing hands evolved so quickly, like the hundredth monkey syndrome! Bravo .
I am glad to see the thug retaliate. If there is going to be a knife fight bring it on.
I also noted that Prime Minister May will investigate wealthy Russians in London. Good for her. Where is a word from our President. Still Mr. Nice Guy from Donald John Trump? Putin must rally have something on this guy.
4
Other folks on this board are saying Trump turned on Putin. Keep your stories straight.
What is the obsession with chemical attacks? This was an assassination. If the Russians had used cyanide rather than nerve agents would it be any less awful? Is this equal to using nerve agents to kill an entire city? Of course not. If I sprayed a bottle of raid ( a nerve agent) on my worst enemy, would that be a war crime or a murder? Have we lost all sense of proportion? These are dastardly acts by a dastardly government but they are not weapons of mass destruction worth incinerating the planet over.
4
I believe that nerve agents and other similar products *are* considered to be weapons of mass destruction. They are very deadly and in this instance threatened the lives of a large number of people in the UK. This was an irresponsible action by a state player.
3
I understand your point, but this nerve agent was placed where others were able to be infected, and apparently it is so toxic, that those who worked on Skripal and his daughter in the park and hospital (including transport persons) showed some signs of having been affected by the nerve agent. Also, the front door of their home, which is where the original nerve agent was placed, was easily accessible to many others. If reports are accurate, this could easily have harmed dozens of people seriously. He is still in critical condition, but his daughter is improving according to reports only a few hours ago. I would not suggest we go to war over this either, but I would support even strong sanctions where it would actually hurt Putin.
Well, you must have missed the Sopranos episode that featured Ralph spraying Tony in the eyes with Raid. Tony won the fight. Ralph ended up dead.
Our current occupant of the White House has got to show his base that he has not, did not and will not collude with Vladimir Putin or his fellow travelers. If he does not show how "patriotic" he is, Trump will help to sink the republicans at the mid term elections. I guess my question will always be: how dumb does he think his base is; how far does he think they will sink so they don't have to admit they voted for a pariah; and how much money is riding on all these shenanigans?
2
First the Democratic "line" was that President Trump was under Putin's control. Since that lie is in the process of being debunked the new lie is that President Trump is trying to start a war with Russia. Pick a "story" and stick with it otherwise all Americans will notice the agenda!
8
What are you talking about? Trump still hasn't said one word against Putin/Russia. His administration was pretty much forced to, given what proof that the British apparently have against them. But you (still) won't find Trump addressing the nation about the Russia problem, or even admitting that it exists.
1
What are you talking about? I don't see anything in the article or comments saying that Trump is trying to start a war.
1
Alan - Try reading the comments!
3
Not bloody well good enough. End diplomatic relations now.
1
People don't recover from novichik nerve agent, there is no antidote , the policeman and the daughter have recovered. if you look at British press , they lost their appetite to attack Russia, as more details emerge , it's clear , this is not novichik, and nothing adds up. I was outraged, like everyone else at first. We live in a fake news era.
1
Well, it looks like the arms dealers have decided on which “teams” they’d like to see help them increase their fortunes, now, I guess we’re just waiting to see whose willing to supply the “field” for our next “rah!-rah!”, wave the flag, turn some unfortunate pawns into reluctant heroes, bloodbath.....
3
This won’t be that kind of war...
My read: Putin is close to being thoroughly fed up with Trump, and will soon come forward with evidence corroborating Trump's "collusion" with Russian hackers in 2016 as well as his financial shenanigans and salacious dalliances in Russia. That should add many nails to the Trump presidency coffin.
1
I have always thought that Putin might be America's way out from Trump. Even the fox-watchers will wise up one day.
You may be right. Not quite sure I want you to be. The question is, where does that leave the Trump voters? Will it all be fake news to them and proof that the media, eastern elites, "the establishment", and so forth, are the real problem? I hope not, but very little that I see and hear from Trump supporters gives me much to upon which to base that hope.
We have 2 bullies in charge of the superpowers and several other wannabees and crackpots waging threats on the world playground. It's what happens when thugs and cowards steal the keys to power. Meaningful communication is replaced by threats; actions escalate and wars are waged. We're on very dark path.
3
I think Putin/Russia knows that Trump or any Republican president will weaken and confuse the USA and of course, that is why they inveigled our electorate and caused him/them to win the 2016 election. They didn't have to look twice after seeing our populace with its snoots mesmerized staring into little lit computer screens, laughing, and reading of the unwashed mainstream being and being told they are "enraged", about something or other. No, they took "Americana" and did it one better.
3
The World Cup is set to kick-off in Russia in less than 2 months. Under the current atmosphere, the safety of players cannot be guaranteed. A BOYCOTT of the World Cup will send an unmistakable message to little menace, Putin and his thugs.
5
Use nerve agent on foreign soil. Western world kicks out your diplomats. Respond by kicking out their diplomats, ensuring additional punitive actions by West. This makes sense if Russia is not interested in dialog, as the West is now an obstacle to it, not a peer.
Putin encourages and assists wars in weak nations, which creates waves of refugees fleeing their failed states to the West, resulting in populist and nationalist leaders taking advantage of frustrated Western voters dealing with refugees from failed states.
Putin then adds gasoline to this fire, helping divisive figures in West through his propaganda trolls.
Overwhelmed West turns to isolationist fracturing of Europe and America. Putin can then roll in and take control over weakened destabilized countries on the cheap?
Looks like a plan for building an Empire very quickly. Downsides? The areas you absorb are completely destabilized warzones. Not very profitable places for an oligarch to vacation.
Meanwhile America has a President asleep at the wheel.
7
Guilty unitl proven innocent? The new modus operandi in Los Angeles? What a great place.
Our President has used twitter to attack the Justice Department, FBI, and past Presidents and politicians, but not one critical of Russia and Putin...Mr. Trump, when you decided to run for President you should had figured out that Russia would use and eventually disclose whatever they have on you...
7
The truth is that with the type of leaders that are in that country now, and with their agenda, of arresting, putting in jail, killing and denying it, not standing for decency with how they treat their neighbors, and their embrace of dictators around the world, any American politician that thought, they could still be trusted, worked with, etc. was a dangerous delusion in the making. The truth is that American companies, care more about being against tough sanctions against the government of Russia, because of profits, than they do standing against pure evil. So Congress went with business, not so much human beings or decency. Congress and President Trump on the side of business, so really on the side of Russia, as expelling diplomats, and their families is just window dressing! SAD!!!!
2
Close all the Russian embassies and consulate offices in the US. Leave them with only the NY United Nations one. We can do the same in Russia too. Russians are nothing but bad news, never has done anything honorable.
1
The insane globalists have done nothing but demonize Russia since before the 2016 election. Every fabricated "crime" and misdeed is being falsely attributed to Russia. Trump's campaign promise to open the doors of cooperation with Russia have been destroyed by the psychotic anti-Russia witch hunt instigated by the pro-DNC globalists, and Trump is simply too weak to stand up to the insanity.
10
Unleashed a weapon of mass destruction in an European capital. Shot down a passenger airliner in midflight. Hacking of all democratic processes. Why does anyone in the West have a diplomatic relationship with Russia (except for the US for dossier reasons)? Diplomacy is about dialogue and trust. There is none here. If Russia wants to be a pariah state, let them. Pull all diplomats, close all consulates, pour on the sanctions. You can't do business with Putin's mafia state whose singular reason for existence is to screw you over. And over, and over...
4
even the briefest reading of history shows the US has done all the things as well Ed.
1
Restarting the cold war is about as dumb as you can get. Instead of trying to bring Russia into the fold we and the rest of the world are chasing them away. President Trump I am sure has been pressured into this because of the ongoing liberal fear of the a non existent Russian interference. We are blowing a huge opportunity.
7
Seems we are indirectly pushing Russia and China together.
1
How is this possible ? I thought that President Trump was Putin’s puppet .
1
Well, now that things are pretty well fouled up. it's time for the so-called president to use his usual magical solution...TURN IT OVER TO THE LAWYERS.
MAGA = Make Attorneys Gold Again
How about a travel arning to American tourists to leave Russian NOW and then, after giving them time to do so, we do a travel ban on Russia. No more tourist $$$ for them and let's add a travel ban on Russians coming here along with shutting down their consulates and reducing their embassy to essential personnel.
2
im trying to do the same thing to the USA.
And so what comes next, when there's no one left to kick out?
2
When will we wake up and take this seriously? We are at war with Russia! Like it or not.
11
We are going there.
1
I am baffled by the level of aggressiveness adopted by Putin. This guy obviously adheres to the notion that the best defense is attack. Therefore, there is a great need to decisively respond to this old KGB member once for all by freezing and seizing all the assets either in Europe or America that are associated with his regime and oligarchy tycoons.
4
The Russian government is about as corrupt an institution as people are capable of producing. Since Russia is such a backward and dysfunctional country, one which cannot produce any value added goods that anyone wants besides some weaponry that it's a loser in international trade and in domestic industrial production. The wealth that comes from what industries that they do have and the sale of commodities is not available to the country but is constantly removed by an oligarchy of criminals. Thus the government has no ability to draw upon enough wealth to conduct itself as a super power, anymore. It relies upon creating so much chaos and confusion that the rest of the world cannot carry on peaceful and mutually productive relations as easily. Putin is such a patriot that he has withdrawn and concealed as much as 200 billion dollars outside of Russia, so that he can make a quick exit.
We deal with Russia, now, because it has nuclear weapons and a strategic location, but as a nation, they have descended to a un-developing country that has about the same future as woolly mammoths.
5
When the EU starts taking energy independence seriously, Russia will stop feeling so emboldened as their treasury empties.
4
The NY Times should continue to encourage Mr. Mueller to chase down these blatant examples of collusion between the USA and Russia - to look in every corner, every cranny and under every rug.
Clearly, as President, if she had been elected, Hillary Clinton would be bravely looking for a re-set button as a bold retaliatory move.
The Russians have been ruthless - those poor, sad expelled 60 US diplomats will now have to work for a living, doing something else. Probably, the US taxpayer is feeling chagrin at these moves by Russia, even embarrassed. Maybe not.
Tempest in a teapot.
1
"Mr. Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who was imprisoned in Russia for selling secrets to the British, was sent to Britain in 2010 as part of a spy swap."
Killing someone for any reason an in-human act.
Why would Russia kill X Agent/Military Officer in UK?
Perhaps to dicourge its citizen and military officers not to spy for enemies or foreign govts. Who is the benefactor here, Russia, facing the wrath of EU and USA or someone who wants to destabilize Russian relationship with EU.
Theresa May's predecessor Mr. Blaire can go to Iraq in killing millions of Iraqi's, id justified? or can be justified? Where were the British morals than and now, being supplier of weapons and supporter of Saudis to kill thousands of Yemeni's?
Before establishing one 100% that Russia was a party to Skripal exposure, marching their diplomats or spies out is not a prudent act.
If Putin is roughly leader, he won through vote, the EU and USA should respect the mandate he has. If EU, including UK wants to resolve any issues with Putin’s Russia, they must not close the diplomatic doors. That is an insane policy, and to follow that policy blindly is even height of insanity.
7
Seems all symbolic on both sides.
4
"President Trump, who has long been loath to criticize Mr. Putin or his government, has made no public statement on the nerve-agent attack or who was to blame for it."
Trump is weak, and our country can't afford to have a president who refuses to stand up and speak out publicly to condemn what the Russian government has been doing to disrupt western democracies.
The recent attack on British soil using nerve gas was meant to physically harm British citizens and should be considered an act of war. We have to stand with our allies and condemn this brazen and aggressive behavior.
Trump isn't working in the best interest of the United States or our allies and is a threat to our national security.
8
Russia has been a nuclear-tipped rogue state run by criminals for decades - enabled by American corporations and their lobbyists. Only American corporations benefit from Russia.
What benefit do the American People get from Russia?
As Obama smartly stated, "Russia doesn't make anything." So why, exactly, does Trumpski kowtow?
16
We all live on one planet. One. It's a finite place, so there's nowhere else to go. So why do we continue having antagonistic interactions with others? What is the point? History is full of wars and battles and espionage, and all that that accomplished was destruction. Why can't we look at that evidence and say "This hasn't worked, so let's stop"? Our species is supposed to be evolving and improving, but we continue indulging our base desires for malevolence and antipathy and egomaniacal superiority.
20
Total isolation from the Western banking system will be more meaningful than anything else. It would be necessary for bankers and upscale service providers in New York, London etc. to endure some financial pain. The legal and illegal use of the banking system has enabled Putin and the oligarchs to thrive in the West and has abetted their mischief both within Russia and outside its borders.
We can't count on Trump or his Republican enablers to do what is necessary. We can vote many out of office in November!
8
This is the latest and perhaps the most important single event in the terrifying, twenty-year descent into enmity of and between Russia and the United States. During the cold war we often called the Soviet Union our adversary; now I hear Russia, more and more, called by a stronger synonym: our enemy. I heard a Russian official the other day say our two countries are starting to run out of options that don't include direct armed conflict. I certainly can't dispute the accusations of many instances of mischief of which we and our allies accuse the country, but, please, we need to find a way to re-establish some sensible degree of comity in our relations. Expelling hundreds of diplomats doesn't strike me as a good way to do that.
7
That Russia and Europe experienced world wars on their soil differs from the U.S. experience. Those devastations of humans, I believe, accounts for less gun violence today over there; whereas, America's homeland evaded the horror and hadn't the memory of that scope. The present, however, shows a trend by a small group to foster the scenes which once happened elsewhere.
The United States carried out its aggression in other countries and within itself on mostly innocent people from countries of origin in Asia, Africa, and Central America. Now, that belligerence aims at democratic institutions and people of color, making oppression, secrecy, and cruelty its motto. Perpetrators on social media or in government and those evil geniuses bored with too little or too much have nothing else to do than to set an established free society on its end, the one which Europe and other places rebuilt from ashes.
3
Everything happening in Russia and the US is about money.
The oligarchs of Russia and the US- especially in the oil, gas, mineral and energy sectors- have finally realized that if they work together they could own and exploit the world not just their respective countries.
Trump and his campaign, Flynn, Session, Manafort etc...have been the facilitators of this.
He is truly the Manchuria candidate.
21
As the article states:
"Why he would be targeted years later is unclear, but political and security analysts have said that the attack served as a warning to those who would cross Mr. Putin that, even in exile, they are never beyond the Kremlin’s reach."
This strikes me as very weak reasoning. The normal practice is to leave spies exchanged in swaps alone, as there is nothing to be gained by threatening them, and what is lost is a measure of security for intelligence agents on all sides. There is no reason why Putin should violate this understanding--at least none that benefits Russia. However, Russia's adversaries have certainly gained by the attack on Mr. Skripal. And the refusal of the British to offer any proof that Russia was behind that attack is most telling.
7
The proof was probably provided by double agents in the Russian government whose lives would be snuffed out if their identity could be inferred from public release of the proof. You seem to be suggesting that Russia's adversaries were behind the nerve agent attack. But you don't say how those entities would benefit from attacking the Skripals.
1
If you want to isolate Russia, impose more sanctions on them and continue the on-going demonization of Vladimir Putin, then the attack on the Skripals was just the ticket.
The proof of the British assertions would be by releasing a sample of the "nerve agent" to the OPCW for testing. As the chemical formulas behind "Novichok" nerve agents have been published, they should be readily identifiable by third parties. However, as those formulas have been published, it should be possible for anyone with expertise and resources in this area to make such nerve agents themselves. Indeed, Iran did so in 2016 and submitted the results to the OPCW. Of course, this undermines Britain's assertions that the Russians did it--as there are plenty of other actors (including Britain's scientists at Porton Down) who could do the same.
It is ironic that tensions are as high as they are when one considers the relationship that Trump seems to have (or wants to have) with Putin. Has someone suggested (to Trump) that cutting off Vladimir from his list of facebook friends might help to get him off the hook with Mueller?
4
When tensions are high is precisely the time for dialogue and the need for diplomats.
8
The West, the UK and the US in particular seem to be maintaining and escalating a long term agenda to demonize, attack and generally make life difficult for Russia - taking advantage of any pretext to engage in economic, political and military aggression that is unjustified by facts. However, false facts are what the US and its allies rely on to justify military aggression and spending. If it weren't so dangerous and costly to the world and our taxpayers, the one sided pot-calls-the-kettle black policy toward Russia would be comical. It is a face, and one that we need to wake up to before more false-flag pretexts will be used to engage in aggression and war - rather than dealing with the real and critical problems undermining our country and culture. Why bother - we can just "blame the Russians" instead of taking responsibility for our own problems - created, surprise - by our government and corporate oligarchs.
10
You fail to mention Russia's seizure of the Crimea and arming and joining forces with Russian-speaking separatists in eastern Ukraine. These seem like pure unprovoked aggression except if you believe that Russia is entitled to lord it over its neighbors. Although an argument can be made that offering NATO membership to former Soviet republics and allies was provocative, the decision to join NATO and the EU was the decision of the elected governments of those countries. Putin has no respect for democracy anywhere and considers decisions by those countries that undercut Russian hegemony to be invalid and subject to be countermanded by him.
1
The West, the UK and the US in particular seem to be maintaining and escalating a long term agenda to demonize, attack and generally make life difficult for Russia
Oh sure, and RUSSIA has NOTHING to do with this. Its all a western plot to demonize Russia.
1
Your comment highlights the problem. The Western spin is that Ukraine and Crimea reflected Russian aggression, but another factually supported view is that the US intervened in the Ukraine to incite and support what was a coup and a new government that immediately took actions to marginalize parts of the country that were economically and culturally conservative and aligned with Russia. There is zero dispute that the Crimeans massively supported joining Russia, that the current Ukrainian government has proved probably equally corrupt as the Russian leaning one that was ousted in the US sponsored uprising and has failed to guarantee the autonomy and federalism demanded by the opposition in the East and promised under the Minsk accords. To try and make everything involving Russian black and white is to buy into US propaganda and its aggressive agenda of isolating Russia. And I don't need to list the invasions and regime change aggressions by the US (by definition interfering in another sovereign nation) that would warrant sanctions and worse if engaged in by Russia.
"Why he would be targeted years later is unclear, but political and security analysts have said that the attack served as a warning to those who would cross Mr. Putin that, even in exile, they are never beyond the Kremlin’s reach."
Could this explain Trump's self-imposed White House hibernation these last few days?
Could this also explain Trump's message to his younger self? "Don't run for president."
You know what they say--be careful what you wish for.
3
If the West truly wanted to punish Russia, the EU would direct SWIFT to prohibit Russian banks from using the system. The inability to process cross border financial transactions would cripple the Russian economy overnight.
5
And every other economy that trades with Russia. You really do want to start a world war.
The world needs to boycott the FIFA World Cup this summer. Hold it in various European nations instead. They have the stadiums already built to do it.
9
Isn't it biased to infer that most of the expelled Russian diplomats are disguised spies and at the same time not to state that the Western diplomats expelled by the Russians in this vendetta can also be spies?
14
What is a spy (intelligence officer)? Part of the job of everyone who works at an embassy in a foreign country is to gather information about the host country. Information gathering does not have to be illegal to be useful. You can get a lot of valuable information by reading local newspapers and watching television news, Fox excluded.
"The Russian retaliation is likely to hurt Western espionage capabilities in Russia. The United States and its allies also use diplomatic cover for their spies."
Sounds like the NYT has you covered, unless they just updated the article.
2
More and more Russia is becoming a rogue nation, with only a mild scolding from the United States' president about the attempted hit on Mr. Skripal and his daughter on foreign soil. The world community knows a rat when it sees one except the America's president.
With mid-terms elections looming later in the year and warnings from intelligence agencies about Russia's intentions of interfering in America's voting process, the president has taken no precautions to prevent Russian bots from repeating the success of 2016.
Besides, Russia isn't interested in diplomacy as much as in world domination, and if America is silent and permissive about Russia's outrages around the world, what's to prevent a "Novichok" chemical attack on, say, Robert Mueller in Washington?
6
I haven't notice the the US is so much interested in diplomacy. Of anybody bends on the World domination, and everybody who challenge the US is declared to be an enemy of America. Not a great basis for diplomacy.
4
We as a nation should do minimal business with the Russians given their behavior. It is time to stop enabling them and keep strictly a single ambassador and staff to support him and expel all other elements of their government. We and our European partners should reduce our presence and business dealings with them as well and not permit their mischief to continue.
1
Here is what a real U.S. president would do in response:
1. Announce that, effective immediately, all diplomatic ties between the United States and the Russian Federation are severed. Order all American government personnel off Russian soil ASAP.
2. Declare all Russian nationals residing within the United States persona non grata. Any Russian national still on U.S. soil at the end of seven days' time are to be detained and interned as enemies of the American people.
3. Confiscate all property held by Russian nationals or government entities in the United States. Use this to first pay off any claims by American nationals for any expected reprisals by the Russians. Add the remainder (if any) directly to the U.S. treasury.
Are you listening, Mr. President?
2
So if the president does not do YOUR BIDDING, would you declare him "UNREAL President", "Fake President", "Pseudo President", etc
So sad that when we most need a leader, we have trump.
21
Trump is by definition "a playing card of the suit chosen to rank above the others, which can win a trick when a card of a different suit has been led".
So, this is the best card America has. The problem is other countries, e.g Russia, North Vietnam, Syria do not WANT TO PLAY OUR GAME - They are not recognising our TRUMP. Full-Stop.
It's unfortunate that we weren't able to manipulate Russia's elections.
8
That's only because Russia manipulates their own elections.
Time to expel 200 Russians, we will run out of people for them to expel at some point.
2
"Mr. Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who was imprisoned in Russia for selling secrets to the British, was sent to Britain in 2010 as part of a spy swap."
Killing someone for any reason an in-human act.
Why would Russia kill X Agent/Military Officer in UK?
Perhaps to dicourge its citizen and military officers not to spy for enemies or foreign goats. Who is the benefctor here, Russia, facing the wrath of EU and USA or someone who wants to destabalized Russian relationship with EU.
Theresa May's predecessor Mr. Blaire can go to Iraq in killing millions of Iraqi's, id justified? or can be justified? Where were the British morals than and now, being supplier of weapons and supporter of Saudis to kill thousands of Yemeni's?
Before establishing one 100% that Russia was a party to Skripal exposure, marching their diplomats or spies out is not a prudent act.
If Putin is roughly leader, he won through vote, the EU and USA should respect the mandate he has. If EU, including UK wants to resolve any issues with Putin's Russia, they must not close the diplomatic doors. That is an insane policy, and to follow that policy blindly is even height of insanity.
6
"Before establishing one 100% that Russia was a party to Skripal exposure, marching their diplomats or spies out is not a prudent act."....Oh please. Have you already forgotten about the assassination with polonium or the Malaysian Airliner. Russia wasn't responsible for that either - just ask Putin.
2
Well, so far we have denial of Putin and 'most likely' of the West. Well, below the threshold of reasonable doubts.
1
Lets risk a nuclear war over this. Anything else would be appeasement, and that would be totally irresponsible and lead to total destruction. Therefore, we should risk total destruction.
You know—we must destroy the planet in order to save it.
10
Putin is now mad at his underling, Trump, and will spill the beans as to why Trump has been so nice to him up to now. This disclosure by Putin, basically, what "goods" he has on Trump which, up to now, have held him in check, will blow the Russia Investigation wide open, revealing whatever it is that has made Trump give America over to Russia. Next up, having the truth laid to bare about the behavior of both "leaders" the world community can now have some honest, real diplomacy which is preferable to the mess we are currently experiencing. Then, again, predictions are perilous in this world and who knows what is around the corner.
1
This is just an old parlor game of political charades. Tit for tat.
Nothing else will change. The oligarchs will arrive in the Hamptons or the South of France with their mega yachts at the beginning of the season as usual.
5
So the father, the spy, and his daughter supposedly poisoned by Russia in England are now both out of the hospital and doing fine. I commented just the other day, why didn't the Russians (if they indeed did try to assassinate the spies) just use a gun or a knife, and someone responded that they were more professional than that, not mere amateurs. Well, it looks like whoever did this, was in fact a "mere amateur" and should have used a gun or a knife.
2
Well actually the intended victim is still in critical condition - and it is pretty obvious that you can't get Polonium or a military grade nerve agent from your local pharmacy.....which is exactly why they were used; to send an unequivocal message.
Maybe not in time of the USSR, but after 90s I would be not surprised you can buy nerve agent in your neighborhood.
1
The intent was to send a message. One with plausible deniability yet enough evidence to make it clear it was Russia behind it. The question is who is the message for?
I hope that by obtaining Trump's silence that Russia was caught off guard by the US's actions in expelling Russian 'diplomats'. But the rubber really hits the road if and when it comes to financial sanctions, the common currency that gets the attention of nations like Russia. I'm less confident that Trump would be willing to go along with that, and risk any well-timed 'leaks' of salacious or incriminating information. Global cat and mouse is a delicate dance, two left feet are a hinderance.
2
Russia, the country that makes nothing people want to buy, except Vodka. No decent manufacturing industry, poor transport infrastructure, many impoverished people. Shame they don't pour their energy into improving the lot of the Russian people instead of causing discord around the world. Russia, despite its size has a smaller economy than Italy!
8
Don't American military buys Russian engines for American rockets?
3
Why would people want to buy Russian NOTHING. It is a mind boggling assertion.
Are we walking backwards into a war?
10
We are walking straight into a nuclear end all war.
5
Some of these comments strike me as exactly what one would expect Russian hackers to insert into the comments section. Any possibility that is the case?
9
You will find these kind of comments any time an article involves Putin or Russia - the propaganda trolls suddenly come out of the woodwork.
3
And you do not allow for any difference of opinion in the United States these day?
1
I am amused by all of the Russian commenters here and elsewhere on the Times site. If Putin wants to destabilize the West, I guess he failed this time.
7
"Tensions Are Worst in Decades"
Really, NYTimes? Do you have a link to several scientific studies supporting that contention? Your job is not to gin up anxiety: just report the facts. Why couldn't your headline merely say, Russia to Expel 60 U.S. Diplomats?
8
Fair point, Jimmy.
Although the within the context of the 2016 Matryoshka-Doll-In-Chief and the Russian-Republican silence, I think it's fair to say things are 'ochin ploha' between America and the Kremlin.
3
Its ochen plokho. Learn to transliterate correctly before showing off.
1
Russia is a punk that needs to be dealt with accordingly. It's disrupting the global status quo I hold dear and wish to see continue.
3
And our president is also disrupting the global status quo, we want it greatly.
You may like the present GLOBAL Status Quo. And maybe 20% of the world's population also like it. BUT 80% are alienated by this Status Quo. This Status Quo is the result of 300 years of European/American Predatory Colonialism, Slavery, and murder/killing of millions of people. This has to be changed otherwise we wil never have peace on earth.
1
So, how did Russia/Putin get to feel so emboldened that he could believe that he could assassinate people in foreign countries with impunity?
Could it be that his scheme of disrupting the US electoral system and creating fissures in American society worked so well (beyond his wildest dreams) that it's gone to his head and he now feels invincible?
Could it be that he knows that he has enough incriminating info about Trump that he knows he's paralyzed, and thus has made the world's only "superpower" impotent?
Between the actions of Russia, North Korea, China, and various countries in the Middle East, in light of Trump's weakening of the US on the world stage, it looks like we're headed toward another World War. It's now just a question of what little park's going to ignite the entire tinderbox.
13
Could it be that Obama/Hillary/Kerry allowed Russia to do whatever it wanted for 8 years without consequence?
Could it be that the United States has acted to do whatever it wanted for more than 8 years without consequences?
1
Really, tensions are worst in years? Russia attacks/undermines our democratic process and tensions are worst in years? I think that can be amended to "Tensions are worst EVER".
What do you imagine Russia would do if Putin lost the election and they discovered that the US rigged their election? I'm guessing they'd be a little more than tense. The cavalier attitude I keep hearing about Russia is astonishing.
9
What a joke this is, try the Cuban missile crisis???
5
Didn't the US rig Russian elections in 1996, which were won by the guy with approval rating 5%? Seems like Russians survived that without much of hysteria.
6
In situations like these, it's good to know we have a calm, deliberative, rational American President, unbiased in any way toward Russia vis a vis our European allies, and who has no conflicts of interest. D'Oh!
6
I'm sure that any American expelled is not a Trump Loyalist.
2
I wish people in other countries would stop chastising us for "voting for" Trump. We didn't elect Trump. He lost the popular vote. Russian meddling and big money influencers plus a broken electoral system inserted Trump into office. The true fake media of Fox etc would have the world believe we support him. We do not. But I'll agree that his popularity among the 30% (his base of angry, sexist, prejudiced, white working class) was fed by his fame as a reality TV "star." It's astonishing, if the numbers are to be believed, that 30% of Americans approve of Trump.
19
A joke you are, of course we the people in the states that voted for Trump elected him.
3
Fake Fakes, Fox, etc. as as America as Apple Pie. And the Political System is ALL American.
A new TRENDING American world view is: IF I LIKE IT, IT IS AMERICAN; IF I DISLIKE IT IT IS FOREIGN - Russian, Chinese, Iranian, Cuban, Pakistani, Syrian .... any country that does not ACCEPT THE OVER-LORDSHIP OF AMERICA.
2
It is a mystery to me why Washington D.C bothers to maintain an embassy in Moscow. The U.S. embassy was effectively constructed by the Russians and is so riddled with listening devises that it is effectively unusable.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/world/europe/embassy-moscow-kgb.html
Why not simply close it down and bring back the entire U.S. staff, at the same time close all Russian embassies here and send them back at the same time.
At that point both the U.S. and Russia can conduct their arguments over what is not the de facto method of communication: twitter. Yes, silly twitter. It will save a truckload of money for both sides.
7
Britain and its allies should also consider boycotting the World Cup scheduled for later this year in Russia.
13
Britain should consider getting hard evidence for its unfounded accusations against Russia. "highly likely" is not evidence.
7
now that we have your attention Mr. Putin...at some point comrad donny may be forced by congress to actually impose and enforce the sanctions...
8
The British government accused Russia of this attack. Russia then asked for some evidence. Under English common law if you accuse the onus is on you to present evidence to back up your claim. The UK government demurred. They have no proof. This appears to be a 'black operation to smear Russia and possibly be used as a pretext for war. Remember Franz Ferdinand?
If the UK has evidence it should be shown, and if not it should shut up.
20
"This appears to be a 'black operation to smear Russia.....and Russia also denies using Polonium in the assassination of a Putin critic, they deny that Russian soldiers moved into Crimea, they deny a social media campaign to influence Brexit and the U.S. election, they deny that a Russian missile was used down the Malaysian Airliner, they deny that Russian hackers stole e-mails from the DNC and sent them to Wiki Leaks to be published, they deny they are assisting Ukrainian rebels, they deny that the Syrians are still using nerve gas against civilians, they deny wholesale doping of Russian athletes.....poor, poor Russia. They never do anything wrong and everybody is always picking on them.
10
"They [the UK government] have no proof."
Of course they have "proof", they just haven't released it yet, because they are waiting for confirmation from the OPCW.
The Times should have made that latter fact clear:
The Latest: UK Asks Chemical Watchdog to Examine Sample
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
MARCH 16, 2018
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/03/16/world/europe/ap-eu-britain-s...
5
Novichok, a russian military grade poison. Prior history of poison assasinations of former russians in the UK. Don't need much else, especially with MI6 and CIA and NSA backing the move. Besides, this isn't a criminal case requiring burden of proof and due process. Much more serious here, and more evidence exists than that used to justify the invasion of Iraq.
3
Wouldn't it just be easier to stop murdering people with nerve agents? And why is Lavrov still here?
13
The British do not seem to have much of irrefutable evidence to support their accusation of Kremlin's involvement in poisoning the Russian ex-spy and his daughter. After weeks of looking for poisonous gas residues in a park, in a nearby bar, in a private car, the British police has now shifted its attention to the house of the ex-spy. If they had incontrovertible evidence of the crime, by now they would have made that public. So, the question is what is actually going on and why so much theatrics.
It seems that UK/US have given up on having amicable negotiations with Russia, through which they could limit Russia's sphere of influence in return for economic sanction removal. So, now they are trying to isolate Russia diplomatically, to drive home that Russia is no longer a super power and must heed the limits set on its power by the West.
Given Saudi Arabia's recent diplomatic maneuvers in London and Washington, it may also be related to Mr. Trump's obsession with starting a war against Iran. If that happens, the US does not want Russia backing Iran. Indeed, the bitter lesson of Vietnam, where Chinese and Russians supplied arms to the Viet Cong, is far from forgotten.
I believe such calculations are fundamentally wrong. Mr. Putin remembers the strangulation of Soviet Union by the West and will not allow the US military to enter into its backyard for the purpose of conducting a war. Neither it would allow the regime in Tehran to be replaced by an anti-Kremlin regime.
11
Do you expect the government to reveal how they know about Russian clandestine operations within their country? And what amicable negotiations are you talking about? You mean between Trump and Putin, or do you mean the years long dispute over the Russian invasion of Crimea, their interventions in Syria, their meddling in the American election, and their actions to disrupt democratic elections across Europe? The US should stay out of Iran, and the support they give Saudi Arabia is wrong, but that does not make the Russians right.
4
No, the only principle at issue here is whether it's a violation of international law when russia feels that it has the right to enter foreign soil and rouitinely poison russian emigres and place the lives of civilians in jeopardy. The UK has sufficient evidence to point the finger at russia.
4
Eddie B. - Russia has only itself to blame for having sanctions placed on it and
worsening relations with the West. Putin wants to expand his reach and started a war in Eastern Ukraine as well as seizing Crimea. These are hardly amicable actions. The British are not going to divulge the methods oft heir secret service in collecting evidence in the poisoning of the Skripals.
3
Why not just close the Embassies and use tweeter instead? It will save a lot of money
3
It is time to boycott the summer world championship soccer. That will truly hurt Putin’s prestige in Russia and show the world’s feelings. As a bonus, it will also be difficult to retaliate against.
13
Totally expected tit-for-tat by the Kremlin, and this is how it was done in the Cold War years. What was NOT handled the same way was extraterritorial assassinations of spies after a formal spy swap. The Kremlin violated protocol in the Skripal poisonings. Brezhnev, and Khrushchev before him, liquidated traitors but not after a formalized swap of them. Putin has returned to Stalinist times. He also kills on UK territory. He thus follows protocol in the expulsion of diplomats but not with the liquidation of spies, who remain permanent targets for a Kremlin rubout.
10
I would think Russia has a great deal of deniability regarding this. The Soviet Union was broken up 30 years ago, and the now (independent?) countries had a lot of military stuff inside their borders. Russia could easily blame one of the former satellites quite easily. There are random nukes all over the place, so i could easily imagine this nerve gas was obtainable.
With all that being said, i do believe it was Russia who ordered the attack, but they won't be caught. Putin is no idiot, Trump is.
5
It is time for hardball with Putin. After Trump is removed from office with the rest of the traitors , Pence, Ryan , McConnell, most of the GOP , THE NRA, and other hoodlums time for action.
Total shutdown of Russia. No trade, no travel, no computer traffic , nothing. Cancel all orders for business, close all western stores , cancel all contracts. Let us show Russia what war looks like. their people will tire of Putin soon enough. Broadcast his corruption and the assets of the oligarchs , which will all be seized and announced to the world. People of Russia, here is your legacy!
4
In your fantasy alternative reality, how about you just pick some other country to be a citizen of?
3
NYT: "They claim to have solid evidence that Russia was probably behind the attack, and that Mr. Putin himself probably approved it." The New York Times coverage on this matter and the rest of Russia bashing, is a shameful display of acting as the Pentagon/CIA stenographers. And no, Trump didn't win because of Russia meddling, the Russian government's role has never been proven. And Black Lives Matter was not a pawn of Russia, either, it is a homegrown answer to brutal racism and police killings. The despicable bigot Trump and warmonger won because of the U.S. media's fawning over him, giving him endless free publicity for months, because it was "good for ratings." Added to that the slavery-era Electoral College, plus the billions of dollars both Goldman Sachs candidates spent and you have the perfect storm. "American-style democracy." And the people pay the price. Let's not fall for another Gulf of Tonkin or U.S.S. Maine, no war, no way. www.liberationnews.org
8
Typical argument you might expect from a Russian media troll.
6
Or an educated thinking American who is not manipulated the propaganda spewed by our government and media. Blame it on the Russians or Russian trolls, the answer to all of Americas problems.
7
Wierd that this post appears to be from a communist activist and prominent Peace and Freedom Party candidate. Is that correct, and if so are these policy statements on Russian meddling and BLM official? Much of your comment seems totally devoid of sense.
1
Close all Russian Embassy compounds everywhere. Erase their memories by letting the homeless occupy the space and homestead. Then, abscond with all Russian money and assets everywhere by freezing the accounts and overturning deeds and raiding their refrigerators. Then kick out all Russian visitors and students from everywhere. Then, cancel all Green Card holders and send them packing. Then raid every store selling Russian Caviars and fumigate the premises with Raid Insect spray and flood the shop with formaldehydes. Get the wildlife service to roundup all Russian Bears and exile them to the zoo on Elba. Then call Putin and invite him to overnight in the Lincoln Bedroom to discuss vodka distribution.
5
An eye for an eye till the whole world goes blind. -Gandhi
I'm a fighter. I believe in the eye-for-an-eye business. I'm no cheek turner. I got no respect for a man who won't hit back. You kill my dog, you better hide your cat.
Muhammad Ali
So Choose wisely.
3
So, everybody's angry, there have been shady dealings that may have involved murder, and now nobody is on speaking terms.
This is some prim-O Art of the Deal, right here.
3
Russia must know that if cannot ever again engage in brazen barbaric conduct in foreign lands.
Full stop.
11
One would think that Trump would be tweeting hourly but all we get are crickets. His silence speaks volumes.
10
Is this the beginning of a new cold war between Trump's America and Putin's Russia? Or Trump is trying to tell Americans and American media that he has nothing to do with Putin but he hates Putin? China's Xi Jinping is probably watching this international soap opera with joy. White guys against white guys.
8
I was in the military during Vietnam....observed classified info of the state of the USSR(now declassified)....same ol' same ol'.....differenc?....1.Putin does not have the logistics to match the US...2. Trump(and they know, including the wimps in Europe)....is serious about US national security....That is why XI and Kim met over the weekend(China and NK)....Like him or not Trump is playing the board game RISK....
2
Trump's silence is deafening.
17
Not really news in my opinion.
Russia breaks the law. Countries react. Russia "counters" by proclaiming "well you're not coming to my birthday party either." Rinse & repeat.
Next
10
This sort of tit-for-tat isn't surprising, but it's like somebody who gets angry at being punished for a crime.
7
The West SHOULD have responded to the polonium poisoning of Alexander Litvenenko. If they had, we wouldn't be having these problems today.
16
This is good. The West will finally be forced to take some meaningful reactions against Russia, aka, hitting Putin and his minions where their pocket hurts. Expelling a few diplomats means nothing.
4
Putin, once again, is trying to gaslight the world. When faced with an accusation, evidence, proof and judgement Putin attempts to turn the tables in drastic fashion, or work some plausible deniability. It's worked because no one want to start WW3, and he knows this. Putin is like an abusive husband who knows the wife -- the West -- will not not divorce, and will take the abuse "for the kids", for the long-term good of the "family". In started with Crimea and has led to this poisoning -- and many abuses along the way. so far he has gotten away with it. No more. Divorce. And, If need be, take up arms to stop it. Putin has a sly way of knowing when he went too far, and the faux meeting about poison gas is his way to say we are working on it and why is everyone overreacting -- free citizens attacked Crimea, free citizens meddled with the election, who knows who poisoned that guy and his daughter, as Putin half smiles for his oligarchs. No more.
5
Nowhere in this article does the word alleged appear.
It was Russian nerve gas. And maybe Putin was behind it. Or maybe it was another country anxious to make worse the bad relations that already exist.
Until it's been proven we need to take a deep breath and calm down.
WMD's anyone?
19
Or maybe it was a 400 lbs man lying on his bed.
3
How did this other country get an extremely rare Russian nerve agent? Is Russian security that bad that foreign actors are able to steal it with impunity? Is Russian dumb enough to sell it to another country who would then turn around and use it to frame Russia? Apply Occam's Razor
Not a big deal considering that President Trump and half of his administration are in Putin's back pocket anyway.
9
We are still on time to organize the world cup elsewhere as I am sure there are countries willing to host the events within a few months notice. Putin's wings must be clipped.
3
I wonder if this was all part of Putin's plan when he helped Trump get elected?
6
Putin's popularity with the Russian people is probably more tenuous than we think. The rancor of Russians over the recent fire which killed many, many children, due to the famous laxness and bribe taking of fire marshals which made that mall a fire trap, highlights the bribe culture of the Russian bureaucracy. This news of how their culture and government is viewed and how Putin and the really rich oligarchs behave (they don't exactly invest in their own country) should really sicken people.
I hope the average Russian citizen has an awakening, just like I hope a lot of average Americans are awakening to the rot in our culture. Hopefully, Putin and Trump will both be seen clearly for what they are: extremely selfish and bizarrely authoritarian and aggressive men who should not be leaders of their countries.
30
I agree. Tyrants often seize power when democratic government is not working well, and people believe they can be more effective. But if they stay too long and are not effective, people will tire of them.
1
On the path towards "awakening to the rot in our own culture", would it be fair to say that US citizens should fix their own problems before inciting a nuclear war with Russia based on slander and innuendo with no facts being presented?
Putin's popular with the Russian people because he represents their interests, and despite years of hostility and sanctions from the US/UK war machine based on lies, their country has prospered. The endless warmongering and lies and NATO encirclement over recent years have even succeeded in driving Russian into China's arms, which was always considered an impossibility before our hubris made it happen.
We can have an Oligarchy with endless illegal wars and domestic squalor and division, or we can do something to reclaim our own democracy from the US Oligarchy that President Carter said we became even way back in 2015.
It terrifies me that so many otherwise decent and thinking Americans see Oligarchs and Totalitarianism in Russia, but not the same thing at home, and yet they still point fingers and start illegal wars.
It scares me that so many otherwise decent and thinking Americans are falling for this "Russia did it" stuff, despite the same people and news agencies lying us into the Iraq War in 2003. Did we learn anything?
Do you know an entire generation of Syrian children, having grown up with takfiri terrorists randomly killing people on the US taxpayer dime for their entire lifetime, are so terrorized they can't speak?
Shame!!!!
2
Without a presence in St. Petersburg how will we keep eyes on the Putin government's internet provocateurs?
6
Mr. President: How about asking the three major networks—plus the cables—for permission to make a formal announcement in prime time to address the Russian “problem,” one that you have gone out of your way to avoid?
We American citizens deserve no less—even those of us who did not vote for you. You cannot continue to govern solely to your 40% “base.” We need a detailed explanation of what our response to Russia’s marauding behavior will be. It is more than clear that your trust in Vladimir Putin’s protestations of innocence in befouling our 2016 elections has emboldened him to pursue espionage in other Western countries.
The world once counted on us for cutting-edge leadership when things looked like wobbling out of orbit. Most Americans think Russia “owns” us. Get off Twitter and talk to us.
247
As far as I am concerned, he can save his breath.
Trump is an unrepentant and inveterate liar; and I would not believe a word he said.
9
Seriously? That would be the responsible adult thing to do. No where near Trump's wheelhouse.
5
But whether this president tweets or talks, its all the same -- blah, blah, blah -- it may mean nothing or the opposite of what he says in a nano-second. Trump is distrubingly unreliable in word and in deed.
5
Obama said the 1980s wanted their cold war back, but The Times' and progressives' "get tough" stand on Russia and Putin are leading us back into another cold war. The Times may not be satisfied until there is a shooting war to prove that Trump is "tough" on Putin.
12
None of us want war. We want heavy crackdowns on the Russian oligarchs who bleed their own country dry and stash the stolen funds in European shell accounts, Caribbean tax havens, or American real estate. And we want crackdowns on those leeches in the West who help them do it for a cut.
4
The entire world is aghast at the cheating, unethical behaviors of Russia. Why are you blaming progressives and the Times? Russia needs to find a moral compass. Nobody is creating these problems but Russia itself.
1
What the heck does the phrase "solid evidence that Russia was probably behind the attack" mean? It's either solid or probable; I don't see how it can be both at the same time.
22
It means that when Polonium or a high tech nerve agent is used to assassinate enemies of the Russian State, it means that Putin intended to send a message that is at once both unequivocal and impossible to prove.
3
Eh, Putin will be gone, sooner or later and Russia will move past him – if they are wise and lucky.
Maybe, but I would bet on it, they thought the same of Fidel (who died at 90 surviving 638 known assassination attempts)!
Russia/Putin's reckless adventurism is a direct result of electing an incompetent and corrupt candidate. Transparency, competence, steadiness, and integrity, all missing from our current administration, are the keys to keeping rogue autocratic nations like Russia in check. Thanks, right-wing patriots!
12
Obama's administration really did the job checking Russian aggression and adventurism, didn't it?
This was expected. Now lets hope Putin does not start blackmailing DJT and the President does not backtrack the expulsion.
2
Right, Trump is a Russian stooge, based on a dossier Hillary and the democrats bought from the Kremlin.
Your dossier 'information' is totally false. Just saying.
Repeating the assertion ad nauseam won't make it any less false, either.
1
Closing the U.S. St. Petersburg consulte would be like the U.S .closing the NY Russian consulate. I would not mind if we broke diplomatic relations until Trump leaves office.
13
Here's the problem, Putin has created a system that will be in place long after Putin is gone. He hasn't replaced key members of the Russian government for no reason. Candidates like Navalny won't have a chance for Presidency for a long time. We'll need to work with Russia, especially considering the geopolitical moves that Russia has been making.
Rising tensions? I think Trumps boss is letting the air out of the hot public relations bag on Russia. I don't believe for a minute that this a real diplomatic crisis.
8
The Putin regime has chosen to be an aggressive enemy of western democracies. A reaction from those countries is long overdue. Trump may be too afraid of Putin to cross him, but the more thoughtful and courageous leaders in the west are doing the right thing. Russia could be a valuable participant in the community of nations but that will never happen with its current leadership. From that perspective, the 21st century may be a lot like the 20th.
9
All of Russia's consulates in the US should be closed and its staffing at its embassy and mission to the UN should be restricted to the lowest level possible. Russia's actions towards the West prove, again and again, it holds our values in contempt and views us as enemies. Therefore, it doesn't need a large presence in the United States or any other Western country.
12
There's a problem with that. With Nord Stream 2 and the deal about to be made with Saudi Arabia, we need a relationship with Russia.
3
I don't expect that Trump will have anything to say publicly, but rather will turn to his lackeys like Sarah Huckabee Sanders to read some formal statement that was written by someone else. Trump will not want to alienate Putin because after all there's another election coming up and he will need his help. I wonder if it's been as much of a blessing to others as it has been for me to have Trump relatively silent these days. Especially beginning with the gun control marches over the weekend, he was knocked off the front pages and the airwaves and Twitter for two blessed days and it seemed almost normal to have other items covered and to have a breather from his insatiable quest for ratings. In some ways, I think that we can thank Stormy Daniels just for knocking him off the front pages and even tweeting to some extent. I'd almost forgotten what it's like to be able to pay attention to a wide range of news from around the country and the world.
14
Hillary actually paid the Kremlin for a disinformation dossier she used to derail the election. In case you haven't been reading the New York Times the past year or so.
1
No, I only listen to Fox news, so I know that when everything else fails regarding logic and reason, the fullback position is always to blame Hillary. It gets pretty lame.
1
This is sad. There's so much about Russian culture to value. Instead of building on our combined strengths, here we are acting out the agenda of a kleptocratic relic from the old KGB.
7
I live one block from Russian embassy in Ottawa.Not a very nice building.Never knew what the Russians did there.Cant recall even one Russian product I buy at the supermarket.
8
"Not a very nice building."
Google Street View shows a very nice building with a fence, trees, and a lawn.
"Never knew what the Russians did there."
The Russian embassy in Ottawa has a web site. And there is display board out front -- have you ever looked at it?
See the Wikipedia article for a history of the site and the building: "Embassy of Russia in Ottawa".
2
The US government should immediately refuse to allow Russian rockets to take American astronauts into orbit as well as stop using Russian made/designed engines for many of our satellite launches. We can just outsource the manned space and military satellite program to one or more big tech companies with multi-national ties, because they will always do what's right for the U.S. of A.
3
Well I hope this doesn't lead to nuclear war. If it doesn't, then no big deal, we'll all get over this minor spat. If it does, then it's been nice knowing a lot of humanity, and goodbye everyone, sorry our species didn't work out.
9
This is apparently what Washington wanted. This isn't, of course, what Putin wanted, which calls into question whether or not it was the Russians who poisoned the double agent and his daughter in the first place.
The spy had been living in Britain for years as the result of a spy swap, so it made no sense for Putin to all of a sudden decide he must be killed. But it made excellent sense for someone who wanted to re-ignite a cold war.
If we had a media that questioned and critically analyzed events rather than just accepting Washington's version, we might actually get some answers to the questions I raised above.
11
The fact that the "evidence" pointing at Russia has not been made public is troubling, for sure. I don't believe I have seen any discussion of Russia's motive for such an act, other than a general desire to discourage future double agents.
1
It made no sense to kill a former spy? yes. It sends a lesson to the world that Vlad can kill anyone, anywhere.
5
The nerve agent used is exclusively Russian. No one else has it.
2
Now that we need the State Department more than ever the POTUS has seen fit to emasculate it.
9
“Relations were already rocky over Moscow’s roles in the wars in Syria and Ukraine, its annexation of Crimea, its meddling in elections in the United States and elsewhere,”
What Russian state meddling in the US election of 2016? We’ve been seeing this claim since Oct. 2016, but so far nothing supports it.
Second to last paragraph, finally an acknowledgement that there’s no good reason for the Russian state of have attempted to kill Mr Skripal in 2018:
“Mr. Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who was imprisoned in Russia for selling secrets to the British, was sent to Britain in 2010 as part of a spy swap. Why he would be targeted years later is unclear, but political and security analysts have said that the attack served as a warning to those who would cross Mr. Putin that, even in exile, they are never beyond the Kremlin’s reach.”
13
Are you kidding? Nothing supports Russian interference in the US 2016 elections? Intelligence chiefs from the Obama AND Trump administrations have been very clear about their conclusions that Russia meddled in the 2016 election cycle. That's a lot of support.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/06/8-times-u-s-in...
2
Contrary to your post, evidence has been published supporting the assertion that Russia meddled. Apart from the info the intelligence agencies have (not all of which has been published), there are the Facebook adverts bought by Russians and paid for with roubles.
Your second paragraph is a bit bemusing, since the quote you included specifically states why he could have been targeted.
1
Russia did meddle in our 2016 election. That is no longer in dispute, as loathe as Trump is to admit it. The only thing left to be determined is whether they did so with the consent and knowledge of the Trump campaign, and Trump himself.
1
The New York Times and others keep calling for a greater and greater response--if the US expelled 60 in concert with other countries, Trump didn't call out Putin personally, etc.
And then it talks about how relations have not been this lousy for a long time, and how things have reached a fever pitch.
Reminds me of the build up to the Iraq war.
25
Not even 1 single reference from the majority EU states complaining/demanding evidence. All this circus accomplished was to single out US colonies in EU. Regardless, Germany still going forward with nord stream 2. This article just tell the story that benefits the house. That's not news.
1
There is no "fever pitch" to the tensions despite the colorful headline. However, Russia's brazen meddling and clandestine operations have reached a new level and are escalating even as the spotlight of the world's attention is focussed on it. Quite extraordinary. Putin has been called often a good tactician but a poor strategist. If Russia stubbornly continues to pursue it's games, I fear it will not end well for them. I say this as a friend of their country.
However, I see no indication that Putins antagonistic policies toward the West will abate. His world view is too anachronistic as is that of his foreign minister. We will likely have to keep Russia out "in the cold" for a good while.
74
Very good comment. Mr. Putin is a terrible strategist. He could get far more from making an effort to get along with the US and the EU than he will ever get by helping Syria, aiding the Ukrainian rebels, and taking over the Crimea. What allies does Russia have? Syria? That is pretty pitiful. Mr. Putin is just damaging his own country.
3
John W:
What brazen Russian meddling are you referring to?
What the response is and will be from the Russian people themselves will clearly demonstrate the importance of a free and vigorously critical press- you know, that pillar of our Democracy Trump calls fake and would like to remove during the renovation he seems to crave.
As it is, he can only gaze towards Moscow with admiration and envy of the man he so longs to be. Thank our founding fathers for that.
14
Something that simply needs to be said:
In 1914, the world went to war. This conflict was sparked by the death of a single man, shot by an assassin. There was a large amount of political fuel to be sure, but the fuse was lit by that single action.
Throw as many people out of your respective countries as you wish, presidents and prime ministers, comrades and patriots.
But do not throw out the history books. Do not let the death of a single man, however egregious the circumstances, cascade into the deaths of millions.
47
That is an extremely shallow analysis of the build up to WWI.
5
It's a good point, and one that I hope Messrs Johnson and Trump are keeping in the back of their minds as they position their governments.
It's also worth remembering that in 1939, much because of what happened after 1914, many in Britain would have sought peace in their time and appeased Hitler, the US was adamantly not getting involved and Russia (an ally against Nazi Germany) had made secret deals to, they thought, avoid aggression while at the same time co-operating with Hitler to invade Poland. Churchill stood against that tide and was able to bring the US in, and Russia had to throw everything she had to turn out the Nazi invaders. The best way forward isn't always to avoid conflict, even though it is certainly to try everything but that first, and to consider now the mutually assured destruction that a nuclear world brings.
In other words, the lesson of the start WWI was not the same lesson for WWII and let us hope there is reason enough in the great capitals to avoid any further such conflict.
1
He was making a simple point, not writing a text book.
4
This tit-for-tat of expelling diplomats is a lose-lose situation. A much more meaningful response to Putin's attacks (including the use of the nerve agent, but also undermining U.S. and European elections and the U.S. power grid) would be strengthened sanctions against Russian oligarchs and their businesses and releasing more information on Putin's billions of stolen wealth. Such steps could actually help curb such transgressions and protect ourselves.
Of course, the chances of Trump doing this when he is in Putin's pocket are close to nil.
49
From game theory, back in political science classes in college, I recall we learned that the best outcome for both parties (and for each individual) is usually arrived at something like "tit for tat, minus a bit". In other words, a measured, and demonstrably slightly less harsh response has often worked better than equal or stronger measures. The trick in this is that the one doing the measuring is the opponent - it's no good if you oppose an action with what you think is correctly measured response but the opponent sees the response very differently than you do.
2
Since Trump takes his orders from Putin, we need to escalate what is quickly turning into a crisis?
We need cool heads, not continuing calls to make things worse.
3
the trump administration should start listening to the advice of stephen cohen the russian expert who believes things are quickly escalating to a point more dangerous than they were during the cold war.
very briefly: without an acknowledgement of mad (mutually assured destruction) by the u.s. and russia and the explicit willingness to use tactical nuclear weapons like the u.s. has at least rhetorically suggested things can go sideways on a dime with catastrophic results.
there's a need to sit down with russia and come up with an arms treaty to restore the concept of mad and forget about using tactical nuclear weapons on a battlefield.
tit for tat measures undermining communication are reckless and dangerous.
13
So the whole issue boils down to who you believe.
Do you believe the British and the western intelligence agencies or do you believe Mr Putin and his oligarchs?
I believe the British. Big surprise to have more confidence in freely elected governance and so much more relative transparency in government actions.
So why would Mr Putin and his oligarchs poison the double agent so long after sending him to the UK in a spy swap? Why now?
To send a message to his lapdog in the US oval office and to anybody who might think of providing Mueller with any evidence substantiating Russia's role in disrupting our election with their agitprop.
Putin is not subtle. He doesn't have to be given his control over everything in Russia.
Let Putin isolate Russia. Let Putin tank the Russian economy. I grieve for the Russian people much as I do for the Turkish people and every other people who are sentenced at birth to live under dictatorial oligarchs who plunder their countries.
But there's not much that sympathy will do for the Russians. It's up to the Russians to take back their country before Putin brings it back to the days of the gulags.
Just as it's up to the American people to take back our country before Trump and his apologists damage our country any more than they have done so already.
411
I cannot fathom the Russians being so stupid as to assassinate Skripal using a means that is directly traceable back to Russia. If the deed was to "send a message," the message would have more psychological effect , and would carry a far lower price, if the international finger could not be pointed at Russia. And if the finger could not be pointed at them, they (Russia) could maintain far more director seats in the international drama that's ensuing. Now they're not even allowed in the theater. That does not fit with Russia's tendencies, that I've seen anyway, over the past 20 years.
3
Well said with clear pragmatism and common sense...Just a Thought!
"freely elected governance" [sic]
Neither the Queen, the House of Lords (upper parliament aka congress) nor actually Prime Minister May were elected in their office. The "lapdog in the US oval office " [sic] actually lost the US popular vote yet was planted in the WH by the undemocratic electoral college. Both these countries have an horrible record at lying to their public in order to push their geopolitical (Iraq anyone?). Let's be thorough there.
3
Pray for peace. Perhaps we should be adults and think again, before it's too late, and stop reckless actions to destroy bilateral relations.
4
As far as Trump is concerned, the fewer US officials there are in Russia, the better. This makes information gathering about Russia more difficult and he would gladly welcome all of it.
8
Time for the world to stand up to the Russian mafia.
And time for America and Robert Mueller to expose its Matryushka-Doll-In-Chief and the Russian-Republican coup d'tat.
Do we have a country or not ?
What flag are you waving, Russian-Republicans and Donnie Putin ?
213
Now we find out exactly what he's made of. Who but a handful of inexperienced cronies and relatives are on his team? How compromised is he by the Russians?
11
As long as there are Russians, there will be Russian spies. As long as there are Americans, there will be American spies. This will further isolate Russia. But what about Russian election meddling? Trump seems to ignore this. Congress has authorized money to fight this, but $0 have been spent. I believe the Russians are doing the republicans a favor, so why not? Russia has successfully divided our country as it is. Divide and conquer. I believe Trump wants our country in chaos and divided. Does that sound like a democracy to you, I think not.
10
Closing consulates and expelling diplomats is just kabuki theater - gestures. Making it more difficult for Putin and cronies to launder their money in the west or take it out will really hurt them. But little chance of Putin's puppet in the White House doing that or letting Kelly make that decision.
18
This may help Putin understand: His actions have consequences.
As long as Putin is allowed to make war and murder with impunity, the world will be a much more dangerous place.
In addition, Russian assets need to be seized. Financial retaliation is probably the best way to get the attention of a kleptocrat like Putin.
11
Russia's response to their own diplomatic debacle. Time to isolate Putin.
4
The loss of diplomatic cover for American and Russian spies likely means little in the long term. As the great British writer of espionage novels John le Carré, himself a veteran of Britain's spy service, told Sarah Lyall in the Times' Book Review last August, "Spies did not win the Cold War. They made absolutely no difference in the long run."
8
This is very interesting now that the president of China will meet with the president of North Korea. Russia and China could join and so the World could be split into two groups.
1
The expulsion of 150 diplomats did not come from Trump, he got boxed in by other countries. They formulated a joint response and someone in Trump's world told him he had to agree because the outcry would be International, as well as in our country if he didn't.
It's a bonus for Trump that it is the same old, same old, distraction from his Stormy et al problem.
6
A friend from Moscow, who regards Putin's elections as a farce, made the interesting comparison with the US not too long ago. The chaotic times of Al Capone, et al.
It was not that long ago that Russia was a monarchy, which was overthrown to become am idealistic communist republic. AND, it is not that long ago since the first steps towards democracy were made.
There are still lots of the old guard left. Those who believe in the good old days, and those who understand that Rome was not built in a day.
WWII killed millions of Russians.
911 killed a few thousand Americans, look at the investment the US made in response to that atrocity? Proportionality.
It was not that long ago that the CIA was attempting to assassinate the head of a sovereign state with a poison cigar, plus other things.
What about Israel, not afraid to assassinate persons where they believe there is a justification?
Do we count numbers killed or the method used? Is the repeal of Obamacare less repulsive, or just easier to stomach?
115
This comment is largely off-base, off-topic, and irrelevant. The CIA didn't assassinate any world leader. The US response to 9/11 didn't involve chemical weapons attacks on civilians (as the Russians did), and Israel has nothing to do with this...moreover, they've never assassinated former Israeli spies who presented no more threat to them.
This comment seems like it was planted by a Russian 'bot account. Who is "Peter" in London, really? Hmm.
4
Russian intelligence officers, if they ever were not, are now throughout Russian government. It's what can happen when a former KGB officer is made president. Why quibble over numbers or methods, where there is no fair dealing with one's own citizens, just a scoff that "Everyone everywhere is corrupt and those who claim otherwise are liars or fools."
Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.
Acceleration is produced when a force acts on a mass. The greater the mass, the greater the amount of force required. Force equals mass times acceleration.
For every force, there is a reaction force that is equal in size, but opposite in direction. Therefore, whenever one object pushes another object, it gets pushed in the opposite direction equally as hard.
What is the Russian government's goal? No doubt they want respect and more international power and they think they will get it through aggression?
1
Nice try. When you have nothing, all you can do is attempt to equivocate. The West has had enough of Russia. Let the Russians go on and on with their attempts at distraction, with their what-about-isms, and with their slack equivocations. I enjoy reading the desperate attempts. The West is slow to act, but once it starts to squeeze, there is no getting away. The West is rich and ever advancing. Russia is poor and backward. The West does not need Russia. The West can starve Russia and not even notice what it has done.
1
It's time like these that I'm glad we have a mature, steady, thoughtful leader who has shown no sign of being compromised at all. Oh, wait, who were we talking about? Eek! Nevermind.
7
It's time to let Putin lay in the bed he has made.
10
Day to day - what do all these "diplomats" do?
Are there more diplomats that can be expelled or is 150 all of them?
It feels like the word "diplomat"is being used as a catch-all for agents conducting international business; the scope of which I think most of us don't quite understand.
8
Speaking as a former diplomat who worked in Leningrad for two years during the Soviet era, and for several decades in various posts in the Soviet Union, Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, I can tell you that these diplomats do plenty. They endure considerable hardships, and there are far too few of them. Try supporting our representatives overseas, instead of criticizing them needlessly. As a taxpayer, you and I are getting far more than our money's worth.
15
I suggest you visit the Department of State web site and do some research on foreign service. Maybe then you can drop the quotes around "diplomats". Trust me, they are not required in that context.
3
James - I am not criticizing I am genuinely asking.
It was expected. Washington reaction to expel Russians was outside of any reason and was based on flimsy pretext
12
Washington was forced into this by euro leaders and libs demanding trump respond to his "buddy" putin because if he didn't it would show collusion with russia. completely illogical reasoning, I know
2
All of this is due to the lack of leadership on the part of the U.S in responding to and setting limits on previous outrageous activities of the Russians. The Russians are literally getting away with murder. Now we are in a tit for tat mode. Where we it end?
8
I agree. the previous leader of 8 years had no hold on russia
1
Jon Huntsman should be in his 2nd term as President, not currently our Ambassador to Russia. He was the smartest guy on stage in 2012. By far..
9
Did Trump call Putin to congratulate him? To compliment him on his tough foreign policy approach? To thank him for the cost savings of closing an embassy?
106
At this point, 300 hands probably went up to volunteer for those 60 spots being expelled...
Gosh, I just can't wait for the World Cup. That's gonna be something...
4
Gandhi said it best, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." The more we retaliate against each other, the more humanity we lose since we refuse to communicate with each other. I fear soon we'll be led to a Black-morror like future where we only see each other as the monsters we create in our heads.
14
Indeed. This is my fear also.
Where it that the very special skills of diplomacy were well regarded during this most unfortunate of eras.
2
I am binge watching the "Americans" tv series. It is about Russian spies in the US. We really have entered reality tv, but Russian lands seem to be slowly growing and growing and growing. Kicking some people out of their apartments ain't gonna do much.
1
"Fever pitch?" Outside of Trump's feverish call to Roseanne Barr to celebrate TV ratings, this seems pretty much US-Russia business as usual.
21
Since WWII pretty much.
As Gomer Pyle would say, 'Surprise surprise surprise.' This response by Russia was such a no-brainer. I would differ with the NY Times's (mis) characterization of tension as reaching a 'fever pitch.' This is just typical tit for tat. I understand from the NY Times' consistent get-tough-on-Russia editorials that it fully supports the U.S.-EU move to expel Russian diplomats, and that it wants even tough measures -- but I do worry that it is blinded and blindered by a neoliberal sensibility that keeps it from understanding that is the precise opposite of what really should be happening right now. I differ with so much that Ron Paul and his like espouse, but they are on the money in their views on how our relationship should be approached with Russia.
15
Since the nerva agent was so quickly traced to Russia I wonder why they let it be so obvious....
Was it a setup of sorts?
They could have killed them in many other ways, why attack them with something so uniquely traceable?
20
Why did they use Po-210 on Litveninko? It was very rare and they thought it would be untraceable but it was. This nerve agent is incredibly rare and I wouldn't assume they new it would be traceable.
2
They want it to be obvious. Putin has been clear on how he views "traitors." This is a PR stunt for him at home.
2
Because they want to send a message to other Russians that disapprove of Putin and his gangsters. We can kill you anywhere.
3
Russia and the West have been playing stupid games with each other for decades. There was a great opportunity when the USSR collapsed, but unfortunately, it passed. So sad. There is plenty of guilt to go around.
5
Go Ahead, Vlad. Expel all the diplomates you want. It only isolates you and your nation even more. Your policies have failed, and your arrogance, is only matched by your unerring level of stupidity, at thinking you could get away with this without any consequences. The nations of the world have ben derelict in confronting this corrupt regime and now Putin and his cronies who are stealing Mother Russia blind, will have to pay for their crimes. It is only sad that this type of condemnation did not happen years ago.
43
beause years ago the leadership was even weaker
1
Unfortunately, it seems that Russia is doomed to this kind of tyrannical "leadership" for all eternity...
2
Russians will take care of their leader. I imagine in a very Russian manner, when the time comes.
1
We need to see Trump's taxes to know if he is indebted to Russian oligarchs. If there are loans that could be used to manipulate Executive Office choices then the executive in charge needs to be replaced.
123
You are making an assumption, that he did not lie on his tax returns. I'm not that committed to his truthfulness.
2
Does anyone doubt that he and his family are massively in debt to the Russians?
It’s literally the only thing that explains this behavior. Trump is a narcissist whose self-image depends on his wealth. His wealth is funded by the Russians. Putin controls the Russians, ergo Trump’s deference to Putin at the expense of all of us and the rest of the world.
Putin is trying to destabilize Europe and the US, and it’s working. You don’t murder someone with polonium or a military-grade poison if you don’t want to be found out. Reducing diplomatic ties makes military action a more likely outcome — not immediately, but eventually.
1
Never chose a method of punishment when the response can be returned exactly in the same manner.
Their response was predictable, tit for tat.
16
"international unity".....sure. Not one of those countries has an independent foreign policy. May growled at Trumps feet, and he coalesced.
"have solid evidence that Russia was probably behind the attack, and that Mr. Putin himself probably approved it.".......So many contradictions in such a short sentence.
25
Dear Dos,
I must confess I missed that event; that is, when Ms May "growled" at Trumps feet.
1
Long-overdue pushback from the West.
I hope cooler heads prevail in the end - I don't want to go fight Trump's War.
52
trumps war? really? this is being pushed by the euro leaders. trump did what he did because he was boxed into a corner. and if he did nothing libs would be screaming bloody murder.
2
"I hope cooler heads prevail in the end - I don't want to go fight Trump's War.'
And what a war it would be! There is only one nation that is a military match to us, and it's Russia.
Why everyone is itching to provoke a war with Russia is a puzzle to me.
Don't you people watch the History Channel?
3
Look I'm sure there's blame on each side. First we danced in the streets and tried to humiliate Russia in the '90s, promising not to expand NATO beyond Germany and blatantly interfering in their elections then. Yeltsin was humiliated , hence the strong, tough guy, Putin/ The Russian people love this 'Make Russia great again' guy. Now, iF Russia is assassinating people in other countries we should retaliate, but seriously like freezing the assets of the big guys. Money talks! This tit for tat is nonsense. It only exacerbates tensions and will lead to a Cold or even a Hot war.
As for this election meddling I'm still waiting for the proof of state involvement. Every nation has rogue individuals. We need Russia (and China) for a stable world, so ratcheting up the tensions serves no one's interest - other than arms merchants and some politicians.
102
Complete nonsense. Russia is brazen about its desire to crush the United States at any cost, and we would be foolish not to push back. They hate our values. It is absolutely beyond doubt that they meddled in the election. Every high-level official, both right and left, have said that there i no doubt about this... And they are out to bring our great nation down. Yet, you are still "looking for evidence of state involvement?!" It's folks like you that just completely baffle me. It's crazy.
7
Are you at all familiar with the tale of the scorpion and the frog? In case you're not, the scorpion persuades the frog to give him a ride across to the other side of the river. At first the frog declines saying, "But you will sting me to death." "No," says the scorpion, "why would i do that when we both would drown?" Seems logical to the frog so he agrees. In the middle of the river, the scorpion begins to deliver his death stings to the frog who says, "but you promised you wouldn't." And the scorpion says, "But it is my nature and I cannot help it." You can't cross the river anywhere close to the scorpion and expect you will make it without being stung, perhaps to death.
2
No the blame is entirely on Russia. Funny how you fail to mention that NATO expanded due to ardent requests of countries that Russia occupied and dominated against their will for decades. I am always amused when Russian apologists speak of their close relationship with Ukraine and somehow forget about Russia starving 3 million Ukrainians to death in the '30's. And, of course, you don't mention the annexation of Crimea. The West will now alienate Russia where it will remain in penury for another 1,000 years. At least the Russians will have nice memories of the 19th century literature to feed the great Russian "soul" while in this world you will feed your body with bread and cabbage.
6
Look for Trump to be at a total loss for exactly what to respond to the thuggish regime of Putin. There are two things which keep Donald Trump quiet (no twitter nor public speaking) and dead silent: Russian control over his actions, and Stormy Daniels. Both are embarrassing to all Americans, but at least we all know exactly what kind of relationship Ms. Daniels had with Donald Trump.
89
So looking back through history, what has been the outcome (either directly or indirectly) of nations expelling each others' diplomats? Was it one of various precursors to war? Or was it more symbolic, and eventually gets restore to normal?
4
"They claim to have solid evidence that Russia was probably behind the attack, and that Mr. Putin himself probably approved it."
Two Probables do not a summer make, or evidence for that matter.
31
You don't assassinate someone with polonium and a military nerve agent unless you want people to know who was responsible.
145
"You don't assassinate someone with polonium and a military nerve agent unless you want people to know who was responsible."
Or You don't assassinate someone with polonium and a military nerve agent unless you want people to think that someone else was responsible..
2
I agree, especially with Novichok agents being a Russian signature (and creation). But why? What's the function? Why is Russia making it obvious that it was them?
2
The NYT and rest of the main stream media keep perpetuating the idea that the US has allies. We don't. We have a lot of dependents - Europe, Israel, Saudi Arabia, S. Korea, Japan and others we have been supporting for decades. Especially Europe. We have been supporting them for over a century: WWI, WWII, Marshall Plan, cold war, NATO. Time for Europe (and others) to start paying their own way. End the US taxpayer gravy train. Europeans might have to give up cradle to grave healthcare, six weeks of vacation, retirement at 60, etc... but not the US taxpayers' job to subsidize Europe.
12
Bingo~
3
We are not all jingoistic.
If America did not have so many guns there would not be so many gun deaths.
If America did not have a large military there would not be so many wars.
You are right, the US has few allies. The rest if the world puts-up with America because we believe in diplomacy where the US believes in rockets .
4
all that US subsidy and saving wars for them and they are still ungrateful.
If boys would just keep playing their Spy vs,Spy game without killing anyone, things would be ok.
But these are grown men.
Who wear suits.
Take our money, have a good time, and leave the rest of us alone thank you.
3
With no consulate in St. Petersburg, one wonders why people would travel there. And, without protection from one's embassy, why feel comfortable attending the World Cup? Will Russia shortly become like Iran, where tourists are picked up for no reason? Isn't it about time that tourists (and the cruise industry) take note of the environment Russia (Putin) is creating.
143
What does having a consulate in St. Petersburg have to do with traveling there? They don't operate as a B&B.
3
You're just scaremongering now. When was the last one time an ordinary American citizen was detained in Russia? Let me know, Ill wait.
3
Did you ask US the same questions when US closed Russian consulate in Seattle? BTW, Russian international tourism is doing great. You should not confuse the attitude of Americans shaped up by the anti-Russian hysteria in US mass media to the attitude of people in other countries.
4
Does it raises tensions between Trump and Putin?
Trump has yet to denounce him.
14
We might not be in this position if we had elected a real president. A reality TV personality (I won't call him a star) thrives on antics that fascinate viewers. This is not reality (fake) TV, it is real life and we are losing.
255
What position does the US find itself in? Expelling spies and other "diplomats" after a brazen attack on UK soil? How on earth is this related to the current administration (embarrassing as it may be)? Do you think Russia's army of shadowy umbrella-pokers would behave if Ms. Clinton had been elected? Russian machinations predate Trump and will continue long after he's gone to the Mar a Lago in-the-sky. And unless you're an American diplomat in Ottawa, what on earth do you mean by "we?"
1
"We" didn't. The Russians hacked the vote.
If the Putin wants to withdraw Russia from the world order, let him.
35
So heartening to see how our relations with Russia have improved thanks to Donald Trump. Not! What a ridiculous notion. Whatever hold Putin has over Trump does not translate into international cooperation. And Putin will not be one-upped by anyone, certainly not by Trump.
36
There is extreme danger to the world with Trump in office. He does not mean our country well. Too many lies. Unknown finances with Russian oligarchs. When will the GOP take control of their monster?
164
January 20, 2025.
So Putin thinks it’s a good idea to isolate himself and his country? As more and more countries expel Russian diplomats and he does the same, I guess his only friends will be Syria, ISIS and the like.
7
The west should respond by kicking the Russians out, and removing our diplomatic corps from Russia unilaterally. Make Russia go it alone. Just withdraw from any relationship with the Russian Bear until Putin or his successor understands that being a member of the community of civilized nations means not engaging in chemical
Weapon attacks on foreign soil.
Stop giving Russia the means to retaliate.
124
The first nukes were developed by, and dropped by America, and done in no small way to intimidate Russia.
What does the world expect? America to be allowed to do as it wishes in this world order?
Of course N. Korea will develop nuclear missiles. Russia will develop newer missiles.
A bit of whining aint going to change matters, else we would still have men fighting wars from the back of a horse.
2
You mean "escalate it further". Yeah, that'll help.
2
I just wonder if you realize that "west" is just a small fraction of the World? Just 23 countries (almost all of them - NATO countries) out of 200+ countries expelled Russian diplomats. And out of these 23 countries only US matters, all other countries in this list are just the lap dogs. The same countries followed US to Iraq to "rid Saddam of WMDs". They do not have independent foreign policy.
3
If, after this undiplomatic but expected move by Russia, the president still keeps mute about Putin, then it is more than likely that Russia has a wheelbarrow full of dirt on him, and Mueller and his team must intensify their efforts of reaching a conclusion on the investigation.
Enough is enough.
483
You mean a Russian Stormy Daniels? You are right on. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck....
1
If, after this undiplomatic but expected move by Russia, the president still keeps mute about Putin, then it is more than likely that Russia has a wheelbarrow full of dirt on him, and Mueller and his team must intensify their efforts of reaching a conclusion on the investigation.
What?
It was the USA who had expels russian diplomats and closed a consulate.
But for US-Americans, russians always evil.
1
"The British government has not made its evidence public, but has shared it with its major allies, who have said that they agree with London’s conclusions."
If they told Trump, Putin knows.
314
I'll go as far to say that Putin also probably knows all of our highest intelligence information if it was presented to Trump and family.
1
What 'evidence' was shared? -- all that could be supplied is some of the blood samples taken and a copy of the Brit analysis -- why weren't the OPCW procedures followed?
As the daughter is a Russian citizen, why was the Russian request to participate in the investigation denied? -- the Brits even denied the Russian consul access to the daughter.
Without the safeguards of having independent scientists present at all stages of the investigation, there will be doubt as to the Brit investigation and? For example, how can the OPCW officials be certain the the samples provided by the Brits actually came from the Skripals; without having the OPCW scientists personally take the blood samples and ensure the continuity of those samples, the problem of possible contamination will always be in question.
If the Russians were they only ones capable of producing "Novichok", how could the scientists at Porton Down, the nearby Brit chemical warfare facility, have so quickly concluded that the poisoning agent was 'Novichok' without having their own supply of 'Novichok' on hand?
This whole campaign has that stinky odor to it.
The big question here is the silence of the POTUS. This is almost unbelievable given the facts that are increasingly obvious to all except those who are under investigation by the special prosecutor. As more evidence comes out American citizens will come to the realization that Vladimir Putin has pulled off the greatest coup in history without firing a shot.
383
Greg, you are fantasizing, there is no there there.
3
The Cold War 2.0 has officially entered its second phase.
72
With all due respect this is not “ Cold War 2.0” I don’t know what it is either but is certainly an inditement of the state of our academia in curating this conflict. They can’t even coin a new term that best describes this conflict.
3
"They can't even coin a new term that best describes this conflict."
How about Baby Steps To WW111. Nuclear this time.
2
Tit for tat. I suspect the damage is far greater to Russia than any in the West. It's about time they started getting real pushback.
137
There has been plenty of pushback from the US before Trump and after. Europe has been slower to react because they are dependent on Russian oil and gas. however, Russia went a step too far and the EU and friends are taking more direct action. The US had to follow along or risk completely alienating the rest of the West. Trump has no stomach for direct confrontation.
The only positives out of Trump's soft attitude towards Russia is Europe's more forceful stance and Putin becoming so confident that he is emboldened to let his tactics of disruption show.
9
Do recall that Obama also expelled agents, and seized two compounds---that were returned under Trump.
5
The Russians respond differently to sanctions and western-designed measures than we commonly think. For one thing, media isn't entirely un-free, but the bulk of Russians happily consume the easiest, snazziest media that is available on Russian TV. That media blames the west, the US, probably Britain now for all things bad, real or imagined. Sanctions and embargoes, asset freezes and the like only impact the Russian 1% - and they can happily stay within the largest country on earth in comfort -- to exist in Putin's Russia already required allegiance to the regime for them, under sanctions they can feel emotionally closer to him, even if detached from travel and western property.
The damage, I fear, is to the future of Russia, to her chances to take a normal place on the world stage - and to the chances of the peaceful modern world to work with Russia.
2
if u don't realize it now.
All of this is heading toward war.
Russia, China, NK rebuilding friendships.
Trump...well Trump.
Continuing Trump's agenda of an industrialized nation of his youth. war Spurs the economy.
48
Sounds a bit too simple.
Though I have to agree. Sanctions or something would have been better than expelling diplomats - because that it what really hurts putin and he can hardly say publicly that is the case otherwise he risks exposing his corrption machine to the ... well exposing it more. Now, its a big gigantic mess and nobody has any leverage or incentive without looking weak. rarely does anything good come from that.
But now, madness. Madness and stupidity.
-- Tywin Lanister
War is constant Throughout history. Peace is unusual.
2
So let me get this straight. We let Russia do whatever it wants and we will have peace. Got it.
This pretty much defines cutting off one's nose to spite your face. Your intelligence apparatus was caught attempting to murder people with a deadly nerve agent that also poisoned several citizens of a foreign power? What did Russia think was going to happen? It is of course the aggrieved party when its diplomats are expelled, and thus must respond in kind leaving ever fewer diplomatic on the ground to talk ... rather than release deadly nerve gas toward one another.
And the Russians wonder why so many Americans are concerned about their unhinged antics in our democracy?
318
Russia thought nothing would happen, which has been the results of all their recent aggression, including invading other countries! The US, however, needs to clarify their own goals, methods and rationales for their actions and not get lost in Trumps state of confusion.
3
Who was "caught"?
Supposed "hard evidence" for nothing more then a "probably".
8
There was hard evidence in 2006 with Litvinenko in London and there is hard evidence in 2018 with this case. The Brits are wisely showing it to the court of Western European and North American opinion. They have learned from 2006 that the Russians will not review evidence neutrally, because they either are the perpetrators or are vested in squashing the investigation.
3