The problem is that there is no verification of the agent used and the accused, Russia haven't had a chance to inspect a sample or legitimacy of the data. Is Britain worried that Russia doesn't know the chemistry of its own agent? It all seems to be rather inconsistent and dubious. Perhaps it's UK's attempt to draw attention away from the 15th anniversary of the Iraq War and the atrocities committed by Britain and the US during and in the aftermath of this illegal invasion that has caused misery for tens of million in the Middle East and elsewhere around the globe.
1
Where were all of these countries when the US lied us into the war against Iraq, a war that took the lives of close to a million Iraqis, destroyed much of the country and set the stage for ISIS?
Why were there no sanctions against the US? Why weren’t US employees at American embassies sent home? When will the US be held accountable for the many war crimes they have committed over the last decades?
1
Europe outrages easily. When one acts in rage one usually also acts against one's own self-interest.
1
This is not NEW aggressiveness by Putin...
Remember when he invaded Ukraine...and Obama did...nothing?
Russia is and always has been a big strong bear with an inferiority complex and she really hates being poked, prodded or pushed around. Trying to humiliate or strong arm Russia is a foolish mistake and will always backfire. Russia will forever be a large part of Europe. Expelling seasoned diplomats when we need them most is utter foolishness.
More talk and respectful diplomacy is needed, not less!
1
Our intel community & our NATO allies realize that Vladimir Putin is our enemy. Only our president & his closest allies fail to see it.
2
When the Soviet Union collapsed, Western Europe allowed itself to wallow in the delusion that Eastern Europe and the new former Soviet nations, places and people with little if any such traditions, would suddenly be amenable to liberal values, democratic processes, and a transnational imperative. Thus, many of these countries were embraced as part of N.A.T.O. and the European Union. This not only proved to be self-delusion but, more significantly, has threatened those collective institutions which the West slowly and painstakingly created after WW II.
Western Europe ignored that its admirable social safety network was largely predicated on having the U.S. pick up the tab for its protection ever since W.W. II. Eurocrats became isolated from the national aspirations of their own peoples. They had a chance to reframe and reassert the collective post-World War II narrative that strongly argued for the creation of transnational institutions as the way forward for peace and prosperity, ways to avoid repeating the bloody past. The Balkan Wars should have been the wake-up call that all was far from well, as Europe needed the U.S. to halt the carnage. Those failure to take note of the expanding weaknesses of the European project is what we are facing now.
Hopefully, those countries genuinely committed to liberal values through long tradition or, in the case of Germany, through a true cataclysm will reassert a commitment to those values, as well as sacrifices thus necessitated.
1
A hard line or merely symbolic.
This is an interesting article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/03/countries-expe...
I was shocked by the tepid international outcry when the airliner carrying tourists (including young children) from Amsterdam to Bali was shot down over Ukraine in 2014. (I think I have the details correct.) The Russians are not nice. Our president is a fool or worse.
3
We can hold the moral high road on this issue since the US, Britain and other EU countries have never murdered or imprisoned their opponents or even tried to dominate or colonize a sovereign country. Shameful Russians!
This issue and others does show that the EU is pretty much an impotent organization to stand up to the Russians. They need the Russian energy and trade to survive. The EU would sell the US out in a second or even their own fellow members for a fist full of Euros or Rubles.
Money always triumphs over morals.
Right after declaring to expel several Russian diplomats to show solidarity with the UK, Germany just announced (a few hours ago) that it gives a full go-ahead to the Russian built pipeline North Stream 2, the one that Putin has been lobbying for for years. Talking about the hypocrisy of the West! Money does not smell, I guess!
Just for the record. There once was a time, and not too long ago when vast parts of Germany were associated with the East! -- not the West.
As for their reasoning to go forward with the North Stream 2, a lot of it has to do with practicality since the pipeline would double the amount of the existing gas supply; something which is very important since Germany is committed to reducing the effects of burning coal and upholding the terms of the Paris Climate Accord -- the same thing can't be said about the U.S.
2
Oh! please! All the countries involved are only expelling diplomats, it's symbolic. No country is playing hardball and putting its economy, power, finance and immediate well-being of its citizens on the line.
2
What's interesting is the non-reporting of how 1,000's of our US troops are currently stationed over in Europe, training on several bordering countries to Russia. In Poland and other places. They are very nervous throughout the Baltic region and for good reason. Especially after what has happened in the Ukraine.
2
What's exactly the point of mentioning the 'lavish' location of the meeting and even detailing the main courses?
3
In Unity there is strength.
3
Really, were they outraged, or just in 'solidarity' with a family member (Theresa May) that needs to be protected from herself? There's absolutely no other reason.
1
We're in the second cold war with a president whose first loyalty is to the wealthy and whom Putin appears to have compromised.
Not good.
3
It is hard for me to believe that, after all of his fawning over Putin, Trump actually agreed to expel Russians. I am waiting for the news to break that Putin gave Trump the list of names.
3
Meanwhile, the Allies seem to agree that the Saudi’s bombing and starving of the Yemeni Shia can continue unabated.
In fact, we will probably sell the Saudi’s more planes and bombs to assist them.
4
Cut Russia out of global trade through increasingly heavy sanctions and let's see how long Putin can stay popular among the oligarchs that keep him in power. Russia as it stands now is a rogue state: supplying chemical weapons in Syria, launching chemical weapons attacks in Europe, hacking government and commercial systems worldwide, murdering journalists, the list of atrocities can go on for a very long time.
2
Many people make the mistake of conflating democracy with liberal values. It has been apparent for years that sooner or later the difference would become painfully clear. When the Soviet Union collapsed, Western Europe allowed itself to wallow in the delusion that Eastern Europe and the new former Soviet nations, places and people with little if any such traditions, would suddenly be amenable to liberal values, democratic processes, and a transnational imperative. Thus, many of these countries were embraced as part of N.A.T.O. and the European Union. This not only proved to be self-delusion but, more significantly, has threatened those collective institutions which the West slowly and painstakingly created after WW II.
Western Europe ignored that its admirable social safety network was largely predicated on having the U.S. pick up the tab for its protection ever since W.W. II. Eurocrats became isolated from the national aspirations of their own peoples. They had a chance to reframe and reassert the collective post-World War II narrative that strongly argued for the creation of transnational institutions. The Balkan Wars should have been the wake-up call that all was far from well, as Europe needed the U.S. to halt the carnage. Those failures are what we are facing now.
Hopefully, those countries genuinely committed to liberal values through long tradition or, in the case of Germany, through a truly cataclysmic "event", will reassert commitment to those values.
1
The most potent response to Russia's prelude to a war footing would be declaring Europe to be independent of Russian gas and heating oil. That would take some significant investment among the NATO nations and especially from the United States to replace the Russian supplies in the short term. Longer term it reflects the transition to solar, wind, and other renewable energy sources to which the EU has already committed. This should be a high priority at any rate to ensure the security of the EU in the face of increasing aggression from Russia.
2
Think of all of the high end real estate that would become available if we froze Russian oligarchs assets here in the US? Especially in NYC and Miami.
1
Seems the western nations were more concerned with their reputations than actually "sending a strong" msg to Russia. Considering the number of Russian state department agents worldwide, the number of expulsions would hardly be missed. It really boils down to they couldn't really do anything in fear of disrupting their individual economies, There public words, meetings, and actions were nothing but show and tell. Putin is probably saying 'what a bunch of weaklings.'
The emboldened Putin is a dangerous case. Great news that they worked together to hold him accountable. He uses lies and false flag ops to disrupt international stability. He obviously feels empowered by his online intrusion into the elections of other nations and his military forays around his borders. Great job making a statement of unity against him.
Putin keeps poking Trump in the eye. Trump does nothing. How far will Putin have to go until Trump actually does something?
If the U.S. and it's allies don't forcefully send a message to Russia now, it will only get worse. Give Putin an inch and he will just keep going. We know that Russia has hacked into our energy/power companies and can shut the grid down any time. Isn't that reason enough to make a stand now to protect our country?
As long as the Russian gas umbilical runs throughout the EU, this is just so much noise.
1
Embassies - the embassies of all nations - are nothing but spy houses that occasionally throw a party. The more they get emptied out, the better off the entire world is.
5
England, Germany and France, , the REAL leaders of democracy in the world today.............
4
Assuming you're not being sarcastic here, I agree. But let's not forget that those countries' citizens have become less liberal and more anti-immigration in recent years, mirroring our trend here in the U.S.
If this is a European 'hard line' against Russia then why is Vladimir Putin smiling and smirking while Donald Trump is silently sneaking?
1
Just as I sit down to write my comment, there is a small amount of fear that the Russians may somehow be able to trace it to my actual physical self in my real, non-internet life. Might they retaliate for the negative comment Im about to make? This makes the fear and intimidation they sow real and personal.
Having said that: expulsions don't at all seem like a strong response for what they did. They try to kill, and have killed before. The Western response is merely administrative. We should have a more militant response. Maybe our leaders fear the Russians more than I do.
5
A military response against a nuclear power is an incredibly dangerous idea. I don't think we should sacrifice millions, or potentially billions, of lives because Russia attacked a few. Refusing to trade with Russia would be something...
1
“. . . the high probability that the Russian state had carried out the poisoning of a former Russian spy on British soil.”
Apparently the probable Russian poisoning of a government official and his daughter was the tipping point and final straw which brought together the European Union and the United States. I find it odd that the U.S. could not extend a hand nor gesture of support in the various terrorist attacks European countries suffered in the past few years but the moment a government official is poisoned, the U.S. responds, supports and joins in extremely quickly on the expulsion of Russian diplomats in this country and across the Continent. I guess the targeting a government official is a little too close to be ignored or brushed off with this administration.
1
Lets remember the Europeans have long been anti-Russian, expanding NATO to its borders, helping overthrow an elected pro-Russian government in Ukraine (in hopes of eliminating Russia's key naval base in Crimea?) sanctioning Russia (but not countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey despite their aggression in Yemen, Syria respectively.)
In this case they didn't even bother with any evidence that the Russian government poisoned the ex-spy, even though one should wonder why they would do so, especially in a way that would suggest Russian involvement. Perhaps cold warriors are trying to brainwash their countries with extremely one-sided demonization of Russia rather than deliberate analysis and perspective. This could have dangerous consequences.
3
One thing is clear May didn't present any evidence to convince the partners, she and other big powers in the EU bullied other countries in submission. Is it a display of unity or a display of bullying in the EU?
Well, we and others throw out diplomats, they do the same to us. Then what. We didn't do anything wrong but our (West's) access to Russia is diminished. Except for a headline - where is the punishment. And if the ousted diplomats were spies why were they accredited anyway? If this were as serious as May states - why did not the UK seize some Russian state assets in the UK and organize allies to do the same? Seems like pattycake-pattycake to me.
2
The Nato countries have never wanted to understand Mr. Putin. All he ever wanted was to be a member of the club. And for a brief time he was, but the price to be paid was complete subservience to US interests, a price, which after the experience with Libya, Putin evidently found too high.
3
This action on the part of Europe was a brave and an excellent way of taking action against a dictator and tyrant. The interesting and troubling thing though, was that the United States was left out of the discussion. In the past the US was looked to as the leader of the free world. Now however, since January 20, 2017 we are the outsider and pariah with no loyalty to our allies. Oh, yes we did expel 60 Russians and are closing an embassy but who made that decision it certainly wasn’t the president. He still has hopes of opening a hotel in Moscow so it couldn’t have been him. All this shows to us is that we no longer lead, we follow. For that we can blame this administration. It will take years to regain our place on the world stage.
1
Europe needs Russian oil and gas but Russia also needs the revenues from their sale to Europe. A similar dynamic exists sets between the US and Saudi Arabia. Moreover the Russians and Saudis would not replace the revenues as easily as Europe and the US replaced the oil and gas. Any disruption would be significant to all parties but over time Europe and the US would be better off.
1
An action that only proves the West's eagerness to go war with Russia - an entirely inappropriate response to the assassination attempt at a turncoat spy - even if true = which it is not. Pure speculation whereas Russia's support of the Syrian regime is a fact and is ONE of the REAL reasons for the hullabaloo about Skripal.
2
Is there any actual evidence at this point that the Russian government was behind the poisonings? Anything? Why is there no public debate about evidence as we barrel straight into a new Cold War?
3
Go electric, no oil, go renewable, that will kill off all of America's problems, Russia, Iran, Middle East, North Africa, bye bye.
2
Unlike the U.S., Europe has a much closer sense of Russian involvement on the continent, especially those countries that once formed the former Soviet East Bloc.
Therefore it's hardly surprising that Europe is also on the vanguard of confronting and taking action against Russian aggression in whichever form it takes place -- something that can't be said of this American president.
9
Stop buying Russian oil and gas, and within 5 years Putin will basically be running the European version of Venezuela.
18
Even Putin is embarrassed by the degree to which Trump has affixed his lips to Vlad's anatomy. So, he sent Trump a list of Russian janitors and cafeteria workers that can be discarded.
7
Russia kills people with chemical weapons in Western countries. The West...expels intelligence operatives? I sense asymmetric warfare here. Stuff like this requires more than just a strongly worded memo.
13
The objective people would never impose any sanctions on base of assumings introduced by such words as "highly likely" or "probably". The case of Skripals is a pretext. But I wonder that Britain, Ukraine and USA need pretext at all, when it comes to Russia, Putin and the gas pipeline "North Stream II".
As to the facts: the agent "Novichok" had been developed in USSR, not in Russia, being stored in some former Soviet Republiks and known in the West at least since 1998. And a few minutes before the crime, a female employee of the Ukrainian intelligence services was filmed next to the victims - she followed them to the store with a medical mask lowered from her face.
3
And you have retrieved this information from exactly where? Russian newsagencies? I’m sorry to be so critical of you but these days it’s hard, if not down right impossible, to verify anything that comes from your country. How convenient that it was someone from Ukraine and that in addition to that was an intelligence operativ AND wearing a mask. Sounds exactly like something a secret agent would do:) No, you’ve definitely something to learn from your older and more experienced colleagues at the troll factory.
Where might we see that film?
1
just wondering where you get your detailed imagery and scientific info
1
Nice start. But for every diplomat/spy shipped out, you know there are 4 or 5 still lurking behind, buried amongst the populace.
If we really want to get their attention, we need to grab them by their rubles.
We need to enforce the economic sanctions congress has already declared. The ones 98 of the 100 Senators said "yes, definitely" to. And that our president said "nyet" to, no doubt at his comrade armed with Kompromat's behest.
Don needs to decide which country he REALLY wants to make great. And so do those who put this puppet in office.
9
Oh, the Europeans are always sending “strong messages.” They’ve sent them to Putin, Trump, Nikita K., Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, you name ‘em, over the years... these authoritarian types just laugh until it is backed up by something more than words and a few diplomatic types being sent back to their homeland.
Russian orthodoxy is antithetical to Western ideas and kicking out a few spies is manna from heaven to Muscovites. Putin gets to retaliate and the ping pong match begins. Nothing new here.
This is the greatest nonsense I can ever remember. This is Russian military grade super-powerful poison, and it didn't kill immediately????
6
They wanted to kill one person, not the whole village. So they had to place a minute amount, discreetly, to get their target. Anyway, he is as good as dead.
3
These responses are hardly a "strong message." The Russian government killed people. They invaded a country. They interfered in our US election. Expelling a few diplomats is peanuts in response. We're not going to war over these things. What can we do? Not much. The situation is frustrating in that we western nations are, basically, powerless to do anything significant.
6
Europe needs to cast it eye for energy South of Russia, maybe all the way to North Africa. and the Saudi Peninsula. The second Russia has no one to sell it's energy to, they'll start shriveling on the vine.
18
Yeah, they really should support the Saudi despots and then drop crocodile's tears over humanitarian crisis created by Saudi that sends million refuges to Europe. What a great idea!
8
After all some unity amongst the so called leaders is still possible. I am more than a touch sceptical about Mr Trump's sincerity.
7
Is it too idealistic to hope that this new cooperation and joint effort at coordinating policy instigated by Great Britain/Theresa May in asking EU colleagues to work in concert with her heralds a change in policy towards BREXIT?
5
The Prime Minister's a tough Tory, but she's still a Tory. So yes. Way too idealistic. One can dream of sanity, though, especially after all the lies that enticed voters too.
Maybe when they Ctrl+Z Brexit, they can use their newfound time not agonizing over its details to...what was that lie-slogan...ah, "fund our NHS instead".
It is quite ironic that the EU, and especially, the US are so outraged Russia dared assassinate a double agent on foreign soil -- considering that the US has publicly declared its right to “hunt down and kill, any person or group that the US deems a threat to its national security wherever they may hide in any country.
Early in Trump’s term as president, a reporter asked about his friendship with Putin considering the horrible things Putin has done. Trump’s short reply was something to the effect of, “Do you think we have not done anything just as bad?”
The US declared the Monroe doctrine in 1823. And we have been expanding our empire ever since. At least our political leaders and newspaper editors were more honest back them. They openly spoke of the “American Empire moving Westward.” Teddy Roosevelt, at the turn of the twentieth century, spoke of “the American Empire expanding westward across the Pacific to China.”
If the US power brokers truly desire a more stable and peaceful world, then I suggest they stop being complicit in the very instability they complain about.
The American people have no control over Russia’s foreign policy decisions. But, we should have a voice in our own country’s policy decisions. Until we stop having a zero-sum mindset and stop attempting to maintain our dominance in in international affairs and economic competition for control of resources. The world is facing far more serious concerns than who can dominate or make more profit.
12
The American Govt makes Russia look like the Sesame Street gang when it comes to terrorizing the rest of the world. We are the worst.
1
The problem with your argument is that Russia could have executed this double agent while he was serving a sentence in a Russian jail...he was subsequently released by Russia and resettled in Britain. So something else nefarious is afoot, but thanks for the lesson on the Monroe Doctrine.
1
What on earth does American imperialism have to do with condemning the use of chemical agents by one country to assassinate someone in another country? How would it bring stability to the world if the US expressed no condemnation of this action?
This is not a foreign policy decision on the part of Russia. It's a crime.This action should not be condoned, regardless of what the US has or hasn't done.
I hope that all of Europe comes together as a complete and united bloc.
Putin is playing a game to bring back the Soviet Union to a more powerful position than it was before.
And please don't think that he doesn't have China and No Korea having his back.
The quickest way to bring down the isolated US is to have a president who has a personality like Trump.
Further, sadly, even if Putin was behind meddling in the US elections, he couldn't have done it without the help of the Americans citizens who actually pulled the level.
There's an old saying about divide and conquer.
Hopefully, the European leader sees this.
19
The countries of the EU + Britain and others should convene a conference at which they agree to being completely free of Russian energy supply by 2025. NATO and EU should impose not just sanctions but a complete boycott of Russian energy. Russia already has a very low annual per capital GDP of $27k +/-. NATO and EU countries should push that number down and keep it down. The Russians have always lived penury. The goal of the EU and NATO should be to grind them into abject poverty.
30
@Christian
After Obama put sanctions in place in 2014 the Russian GDP fell from $2.2 trillion in 2013 to $1.3 trillion in 2017. Some of that could also be attributed to the Saudis pumping more crude and driving down oil prices.
That works out to $9.7K per capita, not $27K per capita.
As a comparison, California alone was $2.2 T GDP in 2013 and we're $2.6 T+ today with 28% of the population of Russia.
Generalizations are always fraught with the potential to overlook details in order to make a point, but for all its problems and disagreements, Europeans have one thing that Americans do not have. Europeans have a sense of history – they are not only taught it, but they walk by it every single day in the manner of monuments, memorials, and iconic landmarks embedded in their landscapes. They have 2,000 of cultural knowledge about the dangers of unrestrained power and they know how things can go very badly, very quickly. That does not mean that Europeans always know how to come together in order to avoid the “bad stuff,” but it does mean that they know “bad stuff” when they see it, without the kind of blinding historical ignorance that Americans exhibit while trying to figure out how to respond to new events.
41
They also lived the Cold War on their own territory. In the late 1960s, when I was on a study abroad program in Italy, the train taking us there from Vienna had to make a slight detour into Yugoslavia because of weather conditions, and we awoke to see armed soldiers at the train stations we stopped at. In those days, too, you could still see the former border stations on the road from Venice to Trieste. At the end of the year, refugees from the Prague uprising suddenly showed up in Italy. Those episodes were an education in themselves.
@Jason Shapiro: You seem to have trouble liking the US, compared to the wonderful Europeans who managed to start what became two world wars in the 20th century. And don't forget the worst genocide since Genghis Khan in the 13th century. If you want to see "blinding historical ignorance," look in the mirror.
The failure of the UK to deal with chemical warfare assassinations earlier emboldened Putin. The Brits were concerned that the flow of money from Russian oligarchs would be curtailed. As for the rest, Europeans hate the US for saving them twice; they want to live their shallow materialistic lives as long as the US protects them. Under US protection, fascism, regimes of "unrestrained power," has become a reality again in Europe, in Poland, Hungary, Austria, Italy and Spain.
As for 2000 years of "cultural knowledge," whatever that is supposed to mean, consider the Roman historian who wrote "we create a desert and call it peace."
We'll see if Europe has the guts to match their rhetoric with action. Or will they fold like a cheap camera when Russia plays hardball in return, and decides to cut off their oil and natural gas deliveries to the EU?
11
Europe is doing much more than we are to develop renewables as an alternative. Germany already gets nearly 100% of its energy needs from wind on windy days.
They don't have much choice but to hang tight. If Putin can threaten them with chemical warfare to give them oil and gas, they need to show him he can't. He needs their buy more than they need his energy. He doesn't have much else.
Europe has friends in high places. Soon as Trump is gone,(will be soon) the alliance will gather strength and Russia will play by the rules. You can't let a despot call the shots.
1
What we need are more sanctions. Cripple their economy. Go green stop using their oil and gas. Boycott everything Russian. This is war y’all.
52
Are you really that eager for war, cold or hot, with Russia? What is the actual evidence in this case of Russian government involvement?
1
Mi6 knows and the FBI does.
What, you Donald and the Russians think different?
1
The new reality: Europe leads, the USA follows.
49
Not necessarily a bad thing.
1
It’s a classic: a collection of weak leaders desperately trying to find a bogeyman outside their borders to distract people’s attention from their serial failures. Europe has plenty of enemies within and should focus on them instead of stoking up hostility towards Russia; but with these pathetic leaders, all we can hope for are empty gestures.
11
Here's another classic: thuggish murderous leader with a weak GDP, oligarchic shambolic economy, and nothing to offer his people or the world except planet warming oil tries to distract his people's attention from those facts by launching subversive attacks on other countries' elections in order to destabilize their stronger economies and assassinate those Russians who dare speak out on him.
Yes, Europe does have plenty of problems but rolling over for a KGB-trained aggressor like Putin playing within their borders only adds to them. Hostility towards sham-elected dictators is a good thing.
2
Good news, and good for them. Hopefully they have contingency plans when it comes to oil. If fear of losing Russian oil drives decisions, Russia wins.
30