I doubt anyone posting here has any really credible information as to what happened, especially when information comes second or third hand. Let the experts at least try.
Is the pilot suggesting a possible illegal action or crime or liability on the part of a passenger?
The company's continuing to advertise these flights is certainly troubling.
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When passengers can accidentally trip controls in a cockpit, they can also do it intentionally. The TSA won't let you fly confined to an adult high-chair if you have any liquid on you. What checks do private helicopter companies have to ensure an unrestricted passenger is trustworthy?
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First an admission---I have a fear of flying---there would be zero chance I would even being on this flight. But having said that, wouldn't you give second thoughts to a tour where the guide hands you a knife to cut yourself out of a harness?
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"Coveted shoe-selfie."
As a culture in rapid decline, it's hard to imagine we can become any more vapid and still function.
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So in other words it's not a design flaw. It's a "feature."
1
I thought they banned door-less helicopter flights (sans military aircraft) back in 2017 due to a similar crash situation over NYC.
I wonder if the 'toes over skyscrapers' shooter was able to post to FB before his/her feet (and entire body) ended up six-feet under in the East River?
3
He published to instgram b4 diying.
Flights are only banned until the company FlyNyon and others can show a new harness system whit a quick release mechanism to the FAA which they approve.
The company advertises in ultra agressive manner with 40% off dors-off flights, bookable as of 31st of march as per there website today.
So in other words the investigation has just started, while the company instead of waiting for the result, goes back to business as usual. Seems business first and safety&moral last is the motto of FlyNYON.
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Determining the causes and whys of this tragedy is crucial, but taking the appropriate steps (whatever those may be) in preventing another senseless loss of life is not only paramount but the only action that matters the most in the end. I hope I never see nor read about another tragedy like this one again. These are reckless and preventable accidents.
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Interesting. Do non-professional passengers typically ride in helicopter cockpits? I can't recall ever being anywhere near aviation flight controls while the vehicle was in operation. Harness or no harness, seating passengers up front seems like a pretty good way to cause an accident. At the very least, I would think there presence would make an emergency that much more dangerous.
You have to appreciate federal responsiveness to the crash though. Five people die in an accident and all suspect flights are banned until an investigation is completed. Seventeen people die in a school shooting and students have to take to streets to even open a debate on gun control. Something is definitely wrong with this picture.
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I've flown three times in the front seat of a small sightseeing helicopter (Alaska, Zambia and Grand Canyon), with another passenger between me and the pilot. We were strapped in and told not to touch any controls.
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Sightseeing helicopter operations are subject to the relatively lax regulations of FAR Part 91 - the same regulations that apply to private pilots. There is no prohibition on having a passenger in the cockpit.
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This entire tragic situation is a pitiful commentary on the state of our society. This is about the kind of businesses we produce and what too many consider "fun" bragging to their so called "friends" on Facebook what they did on their vacation their envious "friends" have not !
11
"All five had been wearing a harness system that was designed to allow them to dangle out of the helicopter, whose doors had been removed for better photo opportunities. . . "
And yet, apparently the designer of this system never took into account the possibility of an emergency evacuation. This story just gets worse and worse.
I apologize for thinking the worst of the pilot, Richard Vance. By all accounts detailed in this article, he did everything he could in literally a few moments time to try and correct/reverse a disastrous scenario which quickly turned deadly. Those five passengers never stood a chance of survival because of that harness system.
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What do you mean? The article states the harnesses had cutting devices to remove them in case of emergency.
In a pouch that people who aren't trained and have cursory instructions can easily forget.
1
What i think is very questionable how aggressively FlyNYON is selling there doors of flights since the accident on there website and instagram (40% off - pay now & schedule later) and don’t refund clients which don’t want to fly anymore. On top they are not openly informing about the incident on instagram or there website, but do everything possible to prented to potential clients its business as usual. Seems transparency is not important to them.
17
I’m a fixed-wing (airplane) pilot, but the helicopter pilots I’ve spoken to have said the pilot’s explanation as to how the passenger strap pulled the fuel shutoff valve is just simply not possible. My first thought when I read the preliminary report is that his story gives the pilot a very convenient story as to why he shut it off himself, which is presumably exactly what happened. In other words, the pilot knew the investigators would find the fuel valve shut off, and he had to come up with a story as to why.
7
I'm a recreational light sports plane pilot and in my plane the fuel shutoff lever could indeed be accidentally pulled if someone was moving stuff within the cockpit and a strap somehow caught it. But it's the first thing to check if the engine fails and is easily flipped back on.
It's unfortunate that the helicopter pilot did not check the fuel shutoff switch immediately when he lost engine power and it seems to have been a mistake not have left it on even at the low altitude of 300 feet. The engine would have sparked to life immediately with the blades still whirling.
11
Not in a turbine engine it wouldn’t have. They are not like piston engines; the turbine takes a while to spool up. If you firewall the throttles in a turbine (jet) they take a good 10 seconds before they reach full power.
6
Are you suggesting that the pilot took off with the valve closed? How? Or are you suggesting he closed it mid-flight? Why?
It is standard procedure to close such a valve prior to forced landing in all aircraft I have flown. On one model, it is a single lever: horizontal for valve open, up to vertical for valve closed. Snag a strap? Unlikely, but conceivable. In a Eurocopter AS350? I don't know about them so I won't opine about their fuel flow valves.
I've never flown helicopters, but I suppose that when considering restart, with a piston engine it would be foolhardy (or suicidal) to engage the clutch during auto-rotation at low altitude without assurance that the engine is not running without a reliable fuel supply, an assurance that only comes with time he didn't have. But the AS350 is reportedly turboshaft-driven so this would not even be an option according to my understanding. With workload management, a pilot would reasonably prioritize giving his attention to making a soft landing away from people when at 300 feet. Proper decision: shut the valve. That's what he appears to have done.
He also claims to have informed passengers about the presence of emergency blades on their harnesses. Passengers who chose to fly in a helicopter without doors.
The next time you fly, pay attention to the instructions on emergency procedures that you are given prior to flight. You all do that very diligently, right?
1
A harness system that allows passengers to move around and dangle out of a helicopter to take pictures?
A fuel cut-off switch located where a passenger could inadvertently flip it?
Harnesses that do not have a quick-release feature?
Helicopters with all of the above flying over one of the most densely populated areas on Earth?
This is so insane it's absolutely unbelievable, but someone was making a buck off of it so there you go...
112
Why would this situation be a problem in a country where climate change is a hoax and pollution has nothing to do with anything?
19
I like FlyNYON's promise that “we take your experience further than anyone else in the industry.” . . . yeah, DEATH or near death. I'll pass.
28
Instead of examining safety regulations, perhaps we as a society need to determine how social media has been elevated to the point that "shoe selfies" are coveted.
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