turkey becomes emboldened every single time nato ignores its aggressiveness. turkey plays the west and russia against each other. which other nato member could pull off a pogrom (see Istanbul pogrom of 1955) where eighty percent of an ethnic minority's churches are destroyed?
2
Whenever Turkey is part of a conversation it attracts folks that have a historic ax to grind, be they Greeks, Armenians, Arabs; heck even Slavs love to bring up the Battle of Kosova which took place in the 14th century! I realize Turks did some bad things back when, but than which nation hasn't?
I also realize that Erdogan is much disliked in the US and EU, heck I dislike the man almost as much as I dislike Trump. But we ought not let historic grievances and ad hominem arguments cloud our judgement for the matter at hand.
The facts are Turkey is a NATO ally and YPG/PKK are a terrorist organization. It is simply wrong for the US to arm, fund, train and support a terrorist organization (which is responsible for over 40,000 killed in Turkey) in order to use them as soilders to fight another terrorist (ISIS) organization. Turkey has repeatedly asked US to stop and US has repeatedly mislead Turkey with falsehoods (e.g., support for YPG is tactical until ISIS are defeated, YPG will abandon Manjib and move east of the Euphrates, etc.). It's no surprise Turks finally took matters into their own hands and went into Afrin. I hope we find a negotiated solution before Turkey decides to move into Manjib.
4
eh, so what? they "did some bad things back when"
obviously you don't care for turkey's ethnic minorities' concerns of the present nor for people who speak up for them. it's all some noisy past. i wonder if that's how you respond to native americans. those pesky minorities, they just have an ax to grind
what you call facts are not accepted facts. whether they should be is another argument. in the us/west, YPG is not considered a terrorist organization. neither is feto by the way
2
Johann, you are mistaken, what I stated are the accepted facts; any fair-minded person knows the YPG is simply the Syrian branch of the PKK (an internatinally recognized terror organization). Futhermore, I care very much for Turkey's ethnic minorities, I happen to be one. That said, I also support Turkey's territorial integrity and national security and think US is undermining both with its wrong-headed policy.
I agree 100% that Turkey needs to do much more to help improve the lives of its Kurdish citizen, after all, only a minority of Kurds in Turkey support the PKK/YPG. BTW, having lived in both countries I can tell you that, on a relative basis, I'd rather be a law abiding Kurdish-Turk than an African-American or Native-American any day of the week.
5
With its military action in northern Syria, Turkey aims to shoot two birds with one stone. Primarily, Ankara seeks to prevent the Syrian Kurds from gaining territoriy and influence on its border, that could inspire its own Kurdish population from breaking away and asking for autonomy.
Turkey had been clamouring for a "no-fly-zone" on its border in Syria in the past, hoping to get rid of the hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees on its territory. The seizure of Afrin and the region by the Turkish forces and their ally, the Free Syrian Army could well serve Ankara's purpose.
But Assad would rather have the Kurds hold on the territory, than letting the opposition forces set up their stronghold there.
1
If anybody thinks, that now the rainbow will shine between the US and Turkey, think again.
Erdogan achieved what he wanted, ejected the Kurds from Afrin and now is eyeing the next target. And he did so against American warnings, enjoying Russian support instead. Get ready for the complete 'liberation' of Eastern Ghouta, then Idlib and so on.
The US' best move would be to quietly pull out and leave Syria without fanfare.
The war will be over there very soon and with that the country can be reformed, which will have to include some form of federalisation, so Syria, as a whole can remain intact.
1
It is easy and understandable to sympathize with the Kurds in the region who want a country of their own. It is also understandable that the U.S. and Israel have a strategic interest in establishing a puppet Kurdish state in the heart of middle east. Such a state would be their puppet; they could build all the military bases they want right next to Iran and keep an eye on Iran; and if necessary use the Kurds as their foot soldiers and make them fight the Iranians. And the Kurds seem more than happy and willing to be a puppet for Americans.
However, it is unrealistic to expect the countries in the region - Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq - to just roll over and hand the Americans a chunk of their lands so that the Americans can create a puppet Kurdish state. Of course not all Kurds are terrorists but the fact that Americans are arming and training the YPG, which is directly linked to, and controlled by, the PKK that has committed countless terrorists acts in Turkey, is such a disgrace. (By the way, PKK is recognized as a terrorist group by the EU and US as well as Turkey.)
Turkish president Erdogan is no democrat and has significantly damaged Turkey's democracy and has made mistakes in Syria. But even those who are strongly opposed to Erdogan in Turkey are outraged by the Americans openly supporting, arming, training a terrorist group that has committed atrocities in Turkey and presents a challenge to sovereignty of Turkey.
8
KA, you are right on target. ISIS are defeated and no longer control any significant territory. So why is the US still in Syria and trying to control as much Syrian land as possible? It most certainly isn't for deposing Assad, that ship sailed when the Russians rolled in. As you pointed out, US objective is to create a puppet state to keep Iran in line. I think Turkey is okay with keeping Iran in check, but using a terrorist organization (YPG/PKK) to do so is a bride too far for them.
2
It is time to accept that Turkey is not an ally but an imminent threat to us. Turkey did absolutely nothing when ISIS flag was flying across its boarders for years with completely open boarders policy for the jihadists. His corrupt family wealth increased massively with ISIS oil trade.
In fact Turkey is now the jihadist power base in the world. Not only Erdogan has just conjured up 25,000 heavily armed jihadists in Turkey almost all of whom are ISIS Al-Qaeda fighters, he is preparing hundreds of thousands via new Turkish madrasas.
For now Erdogan is using his jihadists for Kurdish genocide who are our only proven allies in the region while the west watching, the next target will be Europe.
Erdogan is quite open about it and on the record "No westerner will ever walk safely on the streets again anywhere in the world"
The problem is not only Erdogan, its army is completely aligned to Russia and Iran. This appeasement policy must be stopped. We should back the Kurds and confront Turkey and show them US and Europe have much bigger leverage on them than Putin and Qatar.
4
The Kurdish people deserve independent! It's a long time coming , The Turks are murdering them just to show that they can HELP THE KURDISH BE
I call on all the nation of the world WAKE UP and let this special culture thrive !! Stop the Turkish invasion ! Erdogan is a MURDERER & a demagog I fill sorry for the Turks that trapped in his grip like other nations Hungary, Poland, the US Israel, Iran, Russia It looks like it will take a long time for the pendulum to swing to sanity , when the lesens of history will wake us up ?
1
I do not think that it could be peace in that area of Syria until Turkey recognizes the rights of the Kurdish population, accepting autonomy for the Kurds. The same applies to Iraq and Iran. Most Kurds will be very glad to live within those countries if they have autonomous governments. Of course, Erdogan never is going to allow that.
Mr. Erdogan might discover that what happened to Mr. Assad and Syria can well happen to him and Turkey.
Every day that goes by, Mr. Erdogan is looking more like Mr. Assad.
6
It couldn't happen to him, because Turkey is a NATO member, and therefore, the West will never help rebels as it did in Syria. A from is the proof. The West did nothing to help Kurds whom the West calls Allies against illegal Turkish invasion.
2
"an important part of the population is sympathetic to the P.K.K."
That is of course Turkey's point in doing this, which is constantly denied by the US, saying the Y.P.G. is not the P.K.K. when plainly it is, for practical purposes.
"was preferable . . . to the compulsory conscription the Y.P.G. enforced in areas it controls"
This is the first admission I've seen in the NYT that the Kurdish forces allied with the US are other than loved with wild abandon by all Kurds and everyone else ruled by them.
Finally, we should note that the total Turkish effort is quite limited. They provide some fire support for rebels proxies who do the actual fighting. That means that the risk of "quagmire" is limited. Everyone but the US seems very aware of that lesson.
5
Syria: so sorry that non-alliance was so expensive for your people
1
Gosh I wonder what Bolton and Pompeo are thinking! Now it is the walrus and carpenter's time to create a nice little war in this Alice and Wonderland of an administration. I can almost smell war.
3
Well, isn't Erdogan the brave one. Comes in fighting the Kurds once his oil supply from isis has be removed. Where was he when the real fight was happening? Hiding in his 1,000 room palace admiring himself in the multitude of mirrors it contains. Typical dictator.
21
Peace is secondary. In fact, to major powers, Syria is an open ground for supremacy of their political goals in the region.
4
I am surprised that the NYT would write such an imbalanced piece. Erdogan has supported ISIS and committed atrocities against the Kurdish community. The US, who totally relied on the Kurdish fighters has taken a shockingly weak position with Turkey’s brutal take over of Afrin. Nonetheless as a source of allegedly “objective’ news the NYT ought to have written something that more accurately reflects the context of the situation. Instead this piece reads like a propaganda piece for Erdogan. As a long time reader I’d expect more from the NYT.
30
On the contrary this piece brings some perspective to the simplistic dichotomy we have been getting so far: Erdogan bad, Kurds good. Things are much more complicated than that. I think you are just unhappy to read something that forces you to rethink what you have been led to believe so far.
3
Perhaps there aren't enough dictators fighting wars in the Middle East. "Mr. Trump, your table is ready."
1
Note - Turkey invaded northern Cyprus 40 years ago, and never left. Over the last 30 years, they've waged an internal war against their own Kurdish citizens, and have destroyed thousands of villages. And lastly, let's not forget their genocidal history towards another decimated minority group, their native Armenian population. Yet again, a 'friend' of the US goes rogue, and our government doesn't say a word.
23
Note -- Greece invaded Cyprus 40 years ago, before Turkey did, and overthrew the government there, and has also remained on much the larger part of the island. It is a frozen conflict between the two, with Cyprus in the middle. It is not just Turkey, and was not even Turkey's initiative, and the Turkish military holds less of Cyprus.
that is a straight out falsehood. greece never invaded cyprus. how does this comment get approved and green-flagged?
1
Because the Greek colonels did invade Cyprus. Read up on it.
1
Erdogan quite rightly criticizes Israel on their treatment of Palestinians but then seeks his own ethnic cleansing.Stultifying hypocrisy.
14
Freedom of speech and Erdogan's dictatorship are mutually exclusive.
7
the kurdish guerilla fighters will cut the turkish regular army to pieces over time...
the al qaeda aligned syrian 'opposition forces' are useless on their own.
look for the same scorched earth policy that was conducted in the kurdish region of south eastern turkey when more than 1000 villages were burned and became depopulated. turkey has seriously deluded itself into believing that it is a major power in the region...i can only hope they get cut down to size...and the kurds? their ancestors harried the roman legions during all many long years of war between rome and persia - they have a knack for survival
2
The Turks have a formidable military; especially its Army. The Kurds are tough also; however, without heavy weapons the Kurds cannot last.
Will Don provide the Kurds with such weaponry?
1
"the turkish regular army" is not there, except for some artillery and some tanks that hang way back and provide fire support. So no, it won't get cut to pieces.
Cossack, (or should we call you Kurd?) in the battle for Afrin the YPG lost close to 100 fighters for every Turkish solider killed in action. Now the YPG will revert to its terrorist roots and start killing people with IEDs, etc.
2
For centuries the Ottoman Turks controlled what is now Bulgaria, Egypt, Greece, Hungary, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel & the Palestinian territories, Macedonia, Romania, Syria, parts of Arabia and parts of North Africa. How far does Erdogan want to go now? Perhaps he wants to begin restoring Turkey to ownership of its old 'hood.
8
Even after so may years of tragic suffering and callous geopolitical games I am sad to see people I know and respect now divided and in danger, including acquaintances now serving as Turkish solders and riding the wave of nationalism -- I pray they keep their honor intact; war is not clean. Kurds and Turks should be united in resisting Assad and Russia, and aligning their interests. Civilians are dying. Frankly yes I hope Turkey will establish a safe zone as the UN has been unable to do.
3
Are we watching Turkey's de-facto annexation of northern Syria?
10
Does Israel favor or oppose dismembering Syria? That is the guide to the US position in Syria.
So is Syria higher or lower than N. Korea on John Bolton's wish list of going to war?
2
I am sure! Javanka can solve this too!!
1
Springtime sounds beautiful in Syria. It must be such a pleasure to be there.
1
It appears we are about to throw our Kurdish allies under the bus.
The Kurds have proven to be honorable allies who for several years did much of the hard, dirty, deadly fighting against ISIS in Northern Iraq and Syria. The Kurds are honorable and trustworthy allies and supported the US agenda in the Middle East.
Now our supposed ally and NATO partner - Turkey - who did much to support ISIS as it grew and virtually nothing to fight ISIS - wants to eliminate the Kurds. The Turks are unwilling to distinguish between Kurds in Syria and Iraq from Kurds they've repressed and kill off in Turkey. Unlike the Kurds, the Turks are led by a paranoid dictator, have proven to be dishonorable and untrustworthy allies and make a farce of the NATO alliance. They are as likely to cooperate and ally with Russia as democratic countries.
It appears our military leaders - with honor - do not support this aggression against the Kurds and just as clearly the POTUS has not stated any support for these amazing Kurdish allies.
Who would ever trust us as allies under conditions of wartime if we simply abandon the Kurds now.
49
Trump loves the way Ergodan can throw journalists in jail and arrest his political opponents. Many of the Kurdish fighters are female, and probably wouldn’t take to kindly to Trump’s approach to women. So we know who will get the president’s support!
13
Sounds like when Bush senior urged the Sunni to rise up against Saddam after Gulf War 1 and then allowed Iraq to use helicopters that carried in troops and gassed the "uprisers" who thought they would get American support.
Saddam used a WDM but the USA did nothing since it didn't affect their oil supply.
2
Dictotor Erdogan is the second coming of Hitler. He has the same ambitions and he uses the same tactics. No democracy left in Turkey anymore. Our idiot president loves dictators like Erdogan and Putin. Turkey invaded a town just because residents are Kurdish. This is pure state terror. Such a shame.
35
You are right and wrong at the same time. Read the new carefully. Kurds also caused a lot of arabs out of their homes. There are 3 million Syrian refugees in Turkey. Syrian Kurds will always be a headache for Turkey if they control the border with Turkey. So even though I don't like Erdogan, what he is doing is good for Turkey. Remember Turkey has no problem with Kurds in Iraq. We do a lot of business with Kurdish part of Iraq. As a country we are tired of Kurdish terrorists so don't take it too hard if Turkey wants to control the Syria Turkey border. You wouldn't let Mexicans control your Mexico border right.
7
Your argument holds no water and your claims of displaced Arabs is utter nonsense. If it were even remotely true the YPG wouldn't contain tens of thousands of them...
1
AJ, you need to pay attention to what you read. The article states:
"Along the way is a string of 15 Arab villages from which many of the Free Syrian Army fighters taking part in the operation have been displaced. The villages are now controlled by the same Kurdish group ousted from Afrin, known as the People’s Protection Units, or Y.P.G., which the United States has supported to combat the Islamic State"
As well as: "... and to the compulsory conscription the Y.P.G. enforced in areas it controls"
So the NYT reporters were invited to a staged model refugee camp and we are supposed to believe that Turkey has the best intentions for the Kurds? Hitler let journalists tour his concentration camps too, right?
34
Armies - political leaders - the world over have yet to learn, notwithstanding persuasive and compelling evidence provided repeatedly by history, that there are no easy military victories. What was it that someone wise once said about being doomed to repeat history . . . quagmire here we come.
11
Turkey has land borders with Syria and Iraq, among others. If they want to get involved in a land war with a Middle Eastern country like Syria, good luck with that.
1