Jareth Brown (and the US citizenry in general) needs to study the history of the Constitution, the Second Amendment, and its interpretation by the courts for two centuries. It does NOT give people a unilateral right to carry firearms like the AR-15.
10
The key to gun control changes is rural America. Until they see that the Second Amendent doesn't condone gun violence, nothing will change
5
With students all over the country walking out, why does the Times choose to focus on the naysayers? Why focus on the most pro-gun state, and why say in headlines “thousands” walked out when the total was clearly far higher?
2
How would banning the AR-15 infringe on Second Amendment rights?
8
I remember Billings from when I lived in northwest Wyoming. The Billings Clinic, movies that didn't make it to my town, a nursery full of plants for the yard. Book stores. Hiking equipment. The art museum's exhibit that led to buying two color woodcuts from local artist Edith Freeman. It was, and is, a serious small city, if not quite a mini-Denver. Not a bad place to report from.
Like Jareth, I don't know if the protesters have the right answers, but unlike him, I fully support them going out and trying.
5
If the shoe were on the other foot and Trump supported the protests 100% including not arming teachers and banning AR15s you could rest assured he would be tweeting about those who mocked or threatened the student protestors accusing them of supporting mass murderers.
Hey, didn't Dana Loesch, spokesperson for the NRA actually accuse the MSM of doing something like that? Hoping for these mass shootings so they could get better ratings?
8
The parent and students opposing the walkouts misunderstand what these walkouts are really about: public safety and our culture of violence.
Parents, teachers, and school administrators should be supporting and encouraging this type of civic engagement. Democracy is about citizen participation.
And, any discussion about solving the problem of gun violence must be a conversation about public safety and must also address root causes of this violence, such as the culture of violence in the US that equates masculinity with guns, bullying in schools and on campuses, violence against women, the increase in militarism in schools that serve our most vulnerable youth (e.g, ROTC programs, military-run schools, junior police academies, etc.), state sanctioned violence through policing, and racism that blinds us to the effects of gun violence in communities of color.
4
To mr Brown. In the weeks since Florida , a teacher and a school resource officer discharged firearms in school. Sorry but arming teachers or students is flat out stupid. Sorry, but it is so. Whether or not a ban on the Ar 15 is constitutional or not is a decision for SCOTUS, but Scalia said the Heller decision left room for gun control,just not there at that time.
7
Time for a social studies teacher in Billings to explain the Second Amendment, ask these kids which of them are members of a 'well regulated Militia' aka member of one of our nation's uniformed military services. Little history. And a lot of data on the rates of gun deaths in every sector of our country vs other civilized nations with gun regulations and no access to assault weapons.
5
I salute the students who walked out. I grew up in Montana (five generations) and in a household where guns were kept. No matter how "sacred" hunting is perceived to be, no one needs an assault weapon for any reason. How sacred would it be to make our animals face that kind of threat, not to mention our children who just want to feel safe at school. Let's be sensible. Let's be sane.
10
[Read through to the end.]
I am all for arming teachers. In fact, I think we should take it a step further: I believe every adult citizen should be armed, at all times, with a minimum of a 9mm pistol or AR-15. Preferably, I would like all citizens to be required to open carry, but concealed carry should not be prohibited.
We can't beat this problem with regulations or laws. Humans will always try to kill one another, with their bare hands if they have nothing else. We can only be safe when we make ourselves safe, and the only way we are doing that is to constantly give ourselves the tools - guns - that ensure safety.
----------------------
----------------------
To all those people, including Mr. Brown, using precisely this as an argument for how school safety should work, I'll tell you what that actually sounds like: a combat zone.
Do we really want to turn our schools into weaponized bases? Is that the lesson we want to teach our children? Do we want that for our malls, our streets, our courtrooms to fill with guns, under the guise of protecting ourselves from guns?
Mr. Brown, it is most certainly not foolhardy to try to find a solution to this problem other other than "let's prep for every day like we are waking in a war zone." That option is the last resort, when all other plans have failed and society has crumbled. Until that time, we need to struggle to solve this problem the way all other first-world nations have: by reducing guns.
4
I have always wondered why the introduction to the US constitution doesn't have a priority over any amendment.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a
more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic
Tranquility.."
What about domestic tranquility?
7
Rawstory had an interesting article recently, citing Neuropsychologia, stating that scientists have discovered a link between religious fundamentalism and brain damage. Clinging to (the unrestricted for-profit proliferation of) assault guns has a background that can be checked under the category clinging to (often unconsciously or semi-consciously held) primitive thought residues and the deranged worldviews passed down the generations that come with slow adaptation to newer insights of less primitively and irrationally fearful, vengeful and vindictive clinging impulses. The God of ethnic and tribal hellfire and brimstone that privileges and advantages the chosen (tribe) is an outdated concept counterproductive to human life, and as long as the effort for effective gun control neglects the effort for effective primitive thought relic clean-up and control, it will fail. Period.
The AR in AR-15 stands for (It´s) Always Religion. And the 15 for: stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid! Plus for dogmatic rat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat.
Constitutional for who we are are the thought patterns we got inherited and the speed, dedication and resolve with which we open up to rethinking them in the ugly face of evidence of in-baked dysfunctionality in these patterns and totems as they work out or wreck (in) our daily reality.
Get a grip on what moves (from) the hip.
4
In reading the article, it is clear Montana has an adult problem. We cannot allow these types of adults controlling the narrative. Walk out every day kids...this Navy veteran served so you can be free to walk out. Leave those gun owners alone to live in fear.
12
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The right to bear arms is not absolute. Machine guns, rockets, Atomic bombs and a long list of other items are all considered arms, yet not all all permitted. We have accepted that permissible arms are subject to the discretion of Congress and the judiciary. Interpretations of rights can change with the passage of time and evolving public sentiment due to changes in circumstances.
The growing frequency and increased number of casualties give us reason to re-evaluate what weapons are appropriate for civilian use. A balance between 2nd amendment rights and public welfare needs to reached. In that context, a ban on assault rifles would not violate 2nd aqmendment rights.
46
NRA probably wants to issue AR-15s to these young people and put them out in the field of battle against whoever is out there that isn't us, maybe Iranians.
So calling for gun controls goes against the war effort, that is when NRA backers are going to cash in big, they make the guns and associated equipment like ammunition, accessories, and armor plated clothing.
It is all part of the grand marketing plan, keep America armed and eventually those guns will be used on someone.
3
I think the Billings' parents, and those like them, should put up or shut up. Let them participate in a re-enactment of Parkland. Let them role play that they are the students and sit them in classes. Let the guns be fake and let recordings of an AR-15 be played.
Then have teachers stand in front of their classrooms, trying to keep the students/parents calm. Bombard doors if they have to. End with them filing out quickly to the nearest exit as other parents/students shriek behind them. Make it as real as possible.
As a test, let some of the teachers who have guns see how quickly they can get to them in their classrooms once an actor with an AR-15 prop walks into the room unexpectedly. How much time do you need to put a gunman down when your nerves are causing your hand to shake badly? How much "collateral damage" will occur in those first vital seconds? What if the teacher is shot first? Role play all the different scenarios.
Sounds like a rash step? Maybe. But it certainly might get a point across to those who want to ignore the problem. It will also show the flaws of having armed teachers in the classroom. These parents think they have all the answers. Put them to the test and then will see. Let's see how much courage the parents have to even reenact such an event.
6
The polarization around issues like guns has become more than a little tiresome. We badly need a more adult approach. There are almost always arguments on both sides of such issues. But as long as we bring fixed and simplistic views to our discussions we will be mired in meaningless debate. My hope is that the younger generation will find the capacity for balanced and flexible thinking that there elders so often lack.
3
If I were like many on fringe right, I'd think (if you can call what they do "thinking") these events were false flag operations to get parents to abandon public education and home-school their kids. So twisted has public discourse become in America today.
1
I believe today's pro-gun understanding goes way beyond the intent of the 2nd Amendment as framed by the Founding Fathers. I support the right of American citizens to keep firearms for self protection, collecting, sport or most any reason. But the attempt to justify the ownership of high capacity military style weapons using the Constitution isn't supported by reason or even so called "common sense". No military style rifle with a high capacity will protect you from tanks or jets, so the argument that they will is without merit. Hopefully these school children will grow into registered voters who will tip the scales of justice back to reality someday.
27
This has nothing to do with hunting or owning a weapon or personal protection.
17
I am a gun owner and hunter and I support the efforts these young people are taking against what they consider a threat to their lives.
For most of the years in both my youth and adulthood, I have been around guns, shot at rifle and trap ranges, and hunted. But I have never experienced the terror the students at Parkland must have felt.
There is a place that can be reached where reasonable people can agree on gun control that keeps the rights of gun owners in place and provides and element of safety in the schools and elsewhere these mass shootings have occurred.
In my opinion, there is no place for the AR-15 and its counterparts in civilian life. If the ban cannot be implemented, then registry, licensing, and related fees need to accompany ownership of these weapons. The legislation which can be copied is the law which banned the ownership and use of fully automatic weapons such as the Thompson submachine gun. You can own one, but you have to register it, go through an extensive background check, pay a fee, and find one for sale, usually at an enormous price.
A man from Texas replied to an earlier post I made on the issue of hunting with an AR-15. He said it was necessary in the event a boar(male hog) charged. I would feel much more confident with a shotgun and double 00 buckshot as a stopper. No chance of missing.
9
We the People must discern where we draw the line when one of our constitutional rights infringes on our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. AK47 style assault weapons are a scourge. Mental illness an epidemic. The NRA a powerful lobby seeking to assert the 2nd amendment above all others. It is time for action and change. Where so many aspects of our government are being attacked or dismantled, these students, and their commitment to speak up, participate and yes, disagree in a civil manner, give us hope. Politicians need to lead, to be accountable to the people, not to powerful lobbyists. We need to support our youth in a call for sanity in what has become an epidemic in our society. Make America great again kids. Parents, administrators, teachers, and concerned citizens need to join them.
27
I liked what both boys had to say. When Ben Sholar said: “They don’t have to grow up every day with the possibility of a person coming in with a gun. That’s not on their mind. But it’s on every high school student’s mind.” This statement sent a chill down my spine. The danger is real and not imagined. In a teenager's mind, the possibility of one's school being next exists in the realm of great probability. Not only that, kids are reminded that their lives are in danger every time they do a lockdown drill and every time a school is attacked. if not now, when?
34
Jareth Brown needs to better understand the 2nd amendment. It allows for a well-regulated militia; it does not allow for individuals to have war-weapon grade guns, such as AR 15. They only even became legal to have in 2009. He has been brainwashed by the NRA. I really wish he and others like him would look a bit more closely at history and the reality of today.
20
Your argument is fatally flawed. When the Second Amendment was adopted, the militia was composed of private citizens who owned "military grade" weapons. The purpose of the Second Amendment is to grant to citizens the right to defend oneself against a tyrannical government. If the Founding Fathers had intended to exclude "military grade weapons" from private ownership, they would have done so.
What do you mean that they only became legal to have in 2009? I believe the only period rifles with certain cosmetic features were banned was 1994-2004.
When the founding fathers wrote the second amendment, the only weapons available that weren't cannons were muskets and long barrel rifles. Both took an long time to reload and usually, people made their own bullets. They could not have conceived of the automatic weapons available to day. And remember Paul Revere who rode through every village and town to wake the Minutemen, who had practiced drilling on the village green and guerrilla type of warfare in the woods? That's because we couldn't afford an army at the time and because we were still expanding into Indian territory and NEEDED guns for everyday defense as well as to put food on the table. Now we have the army, navy, marines, national guard etc and we don't need private citizens to be heavily armed with military grade weapons which exist to kill people quickly and that's it. What do we do if the NRA members want to have an RPG to be well-armed? Is that guaranteed by the second amendment, too?
2
"To me they aren’t quite ready and they don’t know where to start.”
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Walking out is the start. It lets the world know that the students see the problem and that they will work to find solutions to it, one way or another.
23
So much for respecting the strongly held views of children. There can be only one view that is acceptable. The Democrat Party view, all other views should be prosecuted as hate speech.
3
Outlaw AR-15 and other semi-automatic rifles? These protesting kids have been misdirected by the media and their teachers. Those guns will never be outlawed for Hillary Clinton’s guards or Mrs. Obama’s. Top judges, lawyers, corporate big shots and people with “connections” will be given special permits to own them or will be permitted to hire guards who can possess them.
“Gun control” = poor people control. The ones without the elite connections will lose access — those whose lives are less worthy of protection than the lives of Hillary and Michelle.
2
No one other than military and law enforcement should be permitted to have access to military style weapons. No private citizen including Clinyon, Obama or Bush etc should have access to these.
5
Please provide a link to a picture of either (or both) Mrs. Obama or Mrs. Clinton with bodyguards carrying AR-15s. I've never seen such a picture.
8
A lot of conspiracy theory in this comment, but no facts.
11
Wanna hunt? Great. Wanna target practice? Go right ahead. Wanna buy an AR-15 and kill kids in school, or in a movie theater, or a church? NO WAY. This isn't about the right to own a gun. This is about responsible gun ownership.
There were people in the 60's who went to demonstrations "to get their fair share of abuse" (thank you, Rolling Stones) but that didn't stop the conversations about the Vietnam War.
We need to start somewhere. I for one am SOOO PROUD of these students' activism; it gives me hope their generation "gets it." #enough
26
It's unbelievable that people can oppose action to stop the unnecessary slaughter of people . We can and must stop this madness. The 2nd amendment, contrary to zealots, was not inscribed on a tablet by Moses. We have the ability to put restrictions on gun ownership, which should include a ban on assault rifles like the ar15. These weapons of mass destruction do not belong in civilian ownership. If you enjoy shooting them, join the army or marines.
14
I think the first student, who caved, also then turned on his compatriots, saying some wanted to "fraternize" and didn't understand what they were demonstrating about. He was scared and then trashed those who were not. I think that's too bad, but many much older people do the same thing. Stick to how you think and feel, folks, and let others have the honor of their own decisions. I think too that if the walk-out had been in part a protest just at the senseless death of the Dorothy Stoneman students, as indicated by the sign "Say the names" in the photo, that might have helped keep politics out of it. The second young man who was harassed, he said, by both adults and students, was brave and articulate. I hope he does not continue to suffer for his opinions and actions. His ending line is chilling: all students today have to think about the possibility that someone will attack the school, any school, coming in with a gun. What have we become?
11
We've always had guns. We've always had nutcases. We've had violent books and TV, before that radio (shows). So violence and guns have not changed per se aside from quantity and graphicness.
Ask yourself, what has changed?
My answers:
1) the virtual soapbox (the internet and the vast array of "social" nonsense)
2) attitudes towards violence (complex)
3) parents; yep, you guys are to blame for much of it. No, I won't go there because there's not nearly enough room, and most parents will never admit they might have gone wrong or, gasp!, that their child(ren) are somehow flawed. Oh, the horror that my little Johnny/Susie is rotten to the core! But #3 is also to blame for #1 & #2.
As to #1, Back In The Day, who ever sat around in their house with 20 friends for hours and hours and just talked nonsense, flashed one another (didn't happen)(much), etc.? Parents didn't allow it. They'd be suspicious, that second sense kicking in that those kids were up to no good. And they were right. So they ran everyone off and either made you do your homework or they tossed you out of the house where you could track some of those friends down, go hang out somewhere, probably get run off from there, and perhaps just decide to go home and do your homework and have a snack because you've wandered 5 miles in attempts to find a place to goof off.
Today, parents hand their children - CHILDREN - the internet. 'Fool' hardly captures the idiocy there.
So, yep, mostly parents' fault.
What has changed is access and allowability of semi-automatic guns which were not previously allowed.
13
I really have to ask, where did you get the impression that semi-automatic guns have ever been widely banned in the United States? No matter what laws you support, this just isn't a factually accurate statement.
1
Also the cost. People can own more now, along with more rounds. They are a consumer good, which is very different than in the past.
2
Most of these people will be voters in the next 2-3 years so this matters. They also have enough personal courage to “speak truth to power,” including parents (“grounded?”) and peers, to stand up for their rights. Rights? Per the Declaration, the first of which is Life. Whether to refuse to stand as cannon fodder in a foreign war or in the front line of the ideological wars, they are the Inheritors and the only ones with historical “skin in the game,” who really can make America great again. Bravo Zulu.
7
In much of middle America, the issue of guns and hunting keeps being raised. A true hunter would tell you only need a bolt action rifle with 2 shells – one to shoot your prey and one shell to finish the job if the initial shot failed. Any other reason to own a gun has nothing to do with hunting but speaks to other fears or insecurities of the gun owner.
Getting back to hunting rifles only and addressing the related social/cultural/mental health/bullying issues would go a long way. The constitution in no way allows unfettered weapon ownership.
22
So, to clarify further: you're saying that hunting rifles with an internal magazine of 3 or more rounds should be banned? All non-breech loading shotguns? As long as we're honest about taking the law further than is the case even in Canada and many European countries.
There certainly is wiggle room - because of pump shotguns and selected other weapons but we need to be closer my original position that where we are now... I have no problems with a 3 shot internal magazine but an AR-15 with high capacity magazine made fully automatic has no place in civilian hands. And we won't reverse the Heller decision and homeowners will continue to disproportionatley kill their family members or themselves.
2
It is human nature for some of us to take advantage of a situation. We will always have students who see opportunities to skip class or shirkers who abuse government programs or elected officials who justify the use of excessive public funds for richly appointed office suites. These impulses are up to each of us to resist and watchdogs to police.
What we all need to understand is just because these opportunists exits, it does not lessen or negate the spirit of the message or the validity of the need.
Nor does it validate your side of the argument.
Kids joining in a march just to skip school does not justify my owning an AR15. “Welfare Queens” means nothing to the argument of whether welfare should exist or not.
What is it about us that says when we find someone gaming a system that system loses its reason to exist?
When you hear a news report about a doctor arrested for Medicare fraud, how do you respond? Do you think, good, the system works or do you think it is proof the program is broken and Medicare should end?
Some of us will always need more policing than others. Some of us have to lose our knee-jerk urges to chuck babies out with the bath water.
10
That's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican: A Democrat will allow 99 cheats in order to help 1 deserving person, whereas a Republican will deny 99 deserving people in order to catch 1 cheat.
5
While I accept each side has its own biases, equating one side with the other is also a current failing of our discourse.
3
Jareth Brown sounds like a reasonable young man who has given the gun issue some thought. He should, however, refresh the Supreme Court ruling wherein Judge Scalia clearly stated that banning certain types of weapons is not an infringement upon the right to bear arms. I also believe that the students who walked out, with few exceptions, were not partaking in this action because they wanted to skip class; these are thoughtful students exercising their civic right to put pressure on legislators who are not responding to the killings in an effective manner.
26
I was and remain curious about the motivation of those who opposed the walkouts--in our area, one high school featured opponents in "Make America Great Again" hats. Do they want kids to keep getting killed? Do they not mourn for the families of those who have been killed? Do they believe there should be no regulations on guns because, you know, the Second Amendment? Some of those participating might, in fact, have been wanting to "fraternize" as one interviewee put it. But they are still making a powerful statement. Kudos to all of those who walked out, even in the face of criticism.
34
Kathleen, You offer some possible motivations for those opposing the walkouts. Couldn't it also be that those opposing want to protect Second Amendment rights or believe that there are unintended consequences of added gun laws which might exacerbate school violence. For instance what if a disgruntled person who couldn't get a gun (due to a new law) chose a bomb instead? That's arguable more destructive. And it's possible. The school shootings are horrible and have caused lots of emotion. Yet possible solutions should be discussed and decided on without such emotion.
1
An AR15 is readily able to be purchased - from multiple outlets in every city of the USA. A bomb is difficult to obtain or manufacture and is not used on impulse as is a military grade assault weapon. These MUST be banned.
3
School walkouts are a joke, but probably a lot of fun for the kids to be part of.
3
Better than doing nothing
5
Yeah, it must be a riot trying to organize to prevent your school and your fellow students from being the next victims of an Adam Lanza or a Nikolas Cruz. What could be more fun than having to run the gauntlet of online hate from NRA supporters and conspiracy theorists accusing you of being a communist or fantasist? Remember those who accused the Sandy Hook victims of being part of a government plot?
7
The Governor of South Carolina stated that the protests were "shameful" and organized by an unidentified leftist organization.
As long as he and MANY other leaders put the rights of owning a private armory over the lives of our children, this country is in big trouble.
Since he is up for re-election, I hope the voters will take notice.
20
The Governor's reaction was shameful.
4
I think students should walk out every month on the 14th until they are free to attend school, concerts, movies, church or the mall without being slaughtered. And 2nd Amendment rights? AR-15s are sacred, so why not let citizens have nukes and howitzers and tanks? Oh, that's right, that wouldn't be safe.
15
I am a highschool student and I just really don’t want to lose my life because my government couldn’t stop a kid from shooting me! However guns have been around for so long and can be used for recreation and protection which I can also totally understand. I’m torn. Anyway you're probably wondering, did I participate in my walkout? No I didn’t. I didn’t think it would make a difference. At this point however I am starting to realize that the conversations being had on the New York Times and the one I am participating in right now are exactly what the people orchestrating these walkouts sought to achieve. This thing did make a difference, but was it the one America needed? I sure hope so.
32
Aidan, no one action by an individual or group will make a significant difference, but in time, many actions by many people will. It's up to all of us to effect change. It takes commitment and perseverance. I'm glad you're part of the conversation.
1
I think it's great these students are interested in forming policy's of their state and country. I believe the goal should not be to make our schools a armed camp or fortress but to make the country in general safer.
14
As a teacher, I watched and encouraged students at our school to follow their conscience. However, I don't think everyone should misconstrue what the walk out was about. For many people, I am sure that it represented a call for severe gun control and outright bans on weapons, but for others, it was an opportunity to stand up for the right to be safe in schools. These two concepts are not synonymous. Safety in schools starts in the home. It starts with teaching the value of human life, all human life. It starts with teaching empathy, teaching kids how to love, and how to care. The culprit isn't video games or guns. As the Boston Marathon idiots demonstrated, any fool can make a bomb. The culprit is hatred and the ability to dehumanize other people. Love your kids; be with your kids; be involved in their lives. And, just maybe, as a society, we might want to put a bit more money and effort into treating mental illness.
22
And because those culprits exist, those who hate and lack empathy, we should not allow them such easy access to weapons of mass destruction. Three references to own a gun, one from a family member, one that would train and certify you in its proper use, and one from a community servant (teacher, doctor, pastor), uploaded as part of a background check would be a step in eliminating these types of culprits from having a means to carry out their plans.
2
These students have much yet to bring to the gun protest. They will develop further. They have not yet fully developed intellectually. The neuroscience dictionary explains the function of the prefrontal cortex which typically develops by 24 or 25. "The prefrontal cortex (PFC) is the cerebral cortex which covers the front part of the frontal lobe. This brain region has been implicated in planning complex cognitive behavior, personality expression, decision making, and moderating social behavior. Jan 4, 2017
Hence, in the years to come, regardless of the adults in Montana, we can expect more positive action in gun ownership, without trespassing on the second amendment. These are thoughtful young adults with powerful voices. They will be voters soon and they will act.
5
Zenobia, you are correct about teen brains in general but many of these teens showed brain maturity beyond their years. I worked in high schools for more than 30 years and saw many students with similar maturity levels. They are phenomenal to watch. I do agree that this is just the beginning for many of these students and look forward to seeing the progress they will make for themselves and our country.
7
"Then the backlash began. Adults began harassing him on Facebook, he said. Students balled up protest fliers and threw them in his face."
And, isn't that just it! Resort to bullying, am sure the NRA condones such activity. Universal background checks, banning assault-type weapons are long overdue.
33
there is NO REASON for civilians to own a weapon that can fire more than on bullet per minute. Guns that can fire more than that SHOULD NOT be sold to civilians in this country.
ALSO, all persons who hand in guns to their local police departments should be paid $1000.
This will bring us in line with other nations that have hardly any mass shootings, which are a feature ONLY in the USA.
15
Actually, Frank -- that would ban every cartridge firing firearm in existence. And would be more strict of a restriction than the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Australia, and just about every democratic country you can think of. A breech loading single shot shotgun (that means you have to open the action and load in a cartridge every time) can fire more than once a minute.
I'm not trying to be contrarian, but I really think that it is important to be realistic about the terms of debate. If you think there should be no civilian gun ownership, that's your right - but saying things like "no more than one bullet per minute" doesn't actually make sense when talking about technology from the last 150 years.
2
Adults were harassing this school kid on Facebook?
I didn't know there were any adults on Facebook.
17
The adults in Montana should be ashamed for suppressing the first amendment right to free speech for their children.
41
The internet bullies are scared that things may change. They are more like children than the children are.
2
“They don’t know what they’re talking about,” he said of his critics, who were mostly adults. “Times have changed since they were in high school. We’re a lot more politically active and involved in Montana than a lot of the people who grew up here.”
Unfortunately, not true. Not true at all. To those of us who walked out of their schools in protest over Cambodia and Kent State, this is all too familiar. A little advice from a generation with more experience in school protests:
- High school kids graduate. They move on to college, jobs, family. School protest movements inevitably peter out as participants age and move on.
- There are more people opposed than you expect. Some of them are your classmates, teachers, family. Outsiders, too.
- When you're an adult, you have degrees of freedom. But you have no freedom until you have your degrees: detention, suspension, expulsion are events which really do go on your "permanent record". So will a bad grade from a hostile teacher. They can affect your ability to get into the college program of your choice and change the entire arc of your life. I'm not saying this to be discouraging, I'm speaking from bitter experience.
- It can be dangerous. Kent State is remembered. But how many today remember the violence that followed at Jackson State and UNM? A nasty experience with cops or counter-protesters hurt or kill.
So some constructive advice: Although it's all about schools, don't do it in school. Do it on your own time.
5
Mike, in case you haven’t noticed, many schools have posted that student protests won’t be a mark against them. In fact, it might enhance their admission chances at many schools. We are in a different age. In your time even colleges discriminated against student protesters. While there might be some colleges who will discriminate, the colleges that won’t discriminate are some of the top colleges in any state and in the nation. Students just need to keep up their grades and participate in school and community organizations and write good essays. In fact, their reasons for protesting might just make for a good essay topic.
3
PTSD...Post traumatic stress disorder is real and dibiliting. It creates a busy defensive mind unable to learn. It is the the reason millions of veterans are unable to make use of their educational benifits they have earned the hard way, the dropout rates are 70 percent plus.
Placing armed adults in schools will produce some amount of PTSD in every child attending. Fear and learning are incompatible.
24
My daughter helped organize the walkout at her school this week. Township and county officials were invited as well. They met with students after the walkout. When confronted about what they were doing about the problem of gun violence in schools, these officials seemed dumbstruck and had almost nothing to say. They thought they were there just there to provide emotional support for grieving and frightened students. Their advice to the kids was to write more letters. The police chief suggested more lock-down drills.
The message to the kids: Learn to live with your fears. There is nothing else that can be done. So wonderful that you're concerned, though. And our thoughts and prayers are with you!
25
Ugh. I hope your daughter and her peers replace those 'leaders'.
1
I'm a parent. I'm a gun owner. I'm a teacher of 30 years. I went to college and own property in Montana. I could care less how many guns someone has or how it makes them feel, and no one, and I mean no one, I have ever spoken to gives a moment's thought to the "guv'mint comin' fer mah guns." But the thought of adults harassing, intimidating, or in any way trying to silence anyone, particularly the young people upon whom the future of this republic lies, into not exercising their FIRST amendment rights, you know, the ones the Founders thought important enough to make them FIRST, makes me sick and furious. Speaking up or attempting to sillence. You tell me who was more respect for the Bill of Rights.
109
My children (15 and 17) stayed in class. The amount of manipulation they received at the hands of their teachers, peers, and local organizations was astonishing.
The purpose of the local walkout changed daily leading up to the date. It was "Anti-Gun", then "Pro-Safety", then "In Memoriam", then finally "Women's Rights" (we live next to Seneca Falls, NY).
If you have to flail about and change your message in an effort to get participation in a boycott...you may want to rethink your stand.
I told my kids what I have told them ever since kindergarten: "Stay in School". Now that is a message I can support...by staying in the classroom.
4
We need more articles like this one. And more multi-page, infographic, in depth articles along these tones. It doesn't have to be an "opposite side" article, it should just be an objective, news article that explores all sides. So often NYT devotes these in-depth articles at drilling home the most liberal viewpoint, completely ignoring the other viewpoints. All the info-stats and graphs are meaningless if they clearly only support one side, and exlude data that may represent another view. (false news?).
Whether or not I agree or disagree with the different viewpoints, it is very insightful to read these articulated thoughts from students. More of this please.
13
Yes
4
I lived in Montana for over a decade, and I know people who work at Billings West HS. Billings is definitely in the red half of the state, but typical red/blue or left/right binaries do not apply in Montana as they do in the east. Brave kids on both sides of this.
Yet, this is an example of how issues are falsely distilled to the point when it polarizes people around something not germane to the original issue.
On the ground, students and many in Montana see it as a gun v. no-gun. And most Montanans will choose their hunting rifle, if that is the case. (When you live off the grid at the end of a dirt road, it’s quicker than a call to 911 when a grizzly/wolf/coyote/etc. wanders into your yard.)
But that is not the case. There is no need for civilians to own an AR-15 series weapon. They are inferior to any decent hunting rifle, if the tradition of hunting is what one claims to defend.
AR-15s, and their military analogs, do only one thing well: eliminate personnel.
And so while I respect the strong-willfulness of these young Montanans, their teachers and community leaders are not teaching them the true issue.
They could be making this into an interesting statement that teaches America about proper gun ownership of proper guns. Montana elected the first woman to Congress in an era when she couldn’t vote in her own election, after all. They have a way of sharing common sense reason through their actions.
But not now: AR-15s are made to kill people, not elk.
52
What if an "AR-15" is chambered in .308, a common hunting round? What makes a hunting rifle, the round or the stock? Wood or plastic? Grip style? What about a, say a classic Remington deer rifle with a detachable magazine? I have such a hard time understanding what makes the AR-15 special.
If you think that semi-automatic rifles are only made to kill people, and not to hunt -- and should be banned, that's fine. But the AR-15 isn't any different from any semi-automatic rifle in terms of lethality.
3
Yes, it is.
I carried M-16s and M-4s for many years in the service of this nation and used them for their intended purpose. They are made for hunting people at medium and close range. Period.
What makes them not a conventional hunting rifle? A sum of design properties. If you are listing single performance or design attributes, then you know enough to know that the sum of such criteria makes it an entirely different artifact. It is no longer a hunting rifle.
A crude analogy is upgrading cars. You can upgrade cars or buy ones with certain certain specific performance upgrades, but keep doing that and eventually you end up with a racing vehicle that is no longer street legal. It becomes a high-performance machine that is a danger to all but the most specialized of drivers.
After all, even a billionaire with a pilot’s license can’t buy a F-22 or F-35, even though they have wings like a Cessna does.
Leave AR-15s and their offspring to the soldiers.
5
But that's exactly my point - what design attributes make the AR-15 uniquely dangerous? Because surely we should target those attributes if we're looking to ban dangerous rifles, no?
Is it the intermediate .223 cartridge?
Is it the length of the barrel?
Is it the amount of recoil?
Is it the ability to accept a detachable magazine?
Is it the weight?
Is it the price?
Is it the color?
Is it the number of accessories being manufactured?
Is it the ability to put accessories on it?
I just want to have a discussion about what features make a rifle more deadly - because the assault weapons ban proposed by Senator Feinstein excludes a firearm very similar to the Ar-15, the Ruger Mini-14 - and I'm having a hard time understanding why other than the fact that it predominately comes in wood rather than black plastic
1
Microcosm of the nonradicals on both sides -- shows the need to have a rational discussion of guns, not just in our schools but in our country. We must be true to our vales, but our values have been misrepresented in favor of making a buck.
6
Those of us who are of an age to remember duck-and-cover drills and the proliferation of bomb shelters at home should be able to understand the fear students now feel. My youngest sister told me recently she sometimes has the same old nightmares, after 50 years!
Those mandated tests of the emergency alert system have always given me to pause to wonder if this is it...real or a test. We had no control over the Russian threat. This generation, now teens, will definitely have control over what happens with gun control. More power to them!
28
Why patronize these students with the crack reporting “what they want to be when they grow up?” Right off the bat that makes these nearly voting age adults seem less serious. Disappointing.
15
I am so proud of these kids and so inspired! They combine youthful idealism with wisdom beyond their years. They will learn about the push-back of those who disagree, whether it's civil discourse or labeling or throwing crumpled posters at them or worse. And they will learn to deal with less-than-sincere peers in their own ranks who have some other agenda. They will encounter adults who have little but scorn for them and peers who dismiss their cause. They will be challenged and frustrated in many ways testing their perseverance.
I hope the parents who disagree with their kids are able to feel some pride in their civic engagement, but in any case a new generation of caring activists has announced their presence and I wish them every success. They need not follow the lead of their elders. I was born in the first half of the last century and I'll be following their lead on March 24th when I show up at the rally they have inspired and organized.
97
Interestingly, the Times in this article says “tens of thousands”. It’s headline on Wednesday said “thousands”.
Be nice to know the correct order of magnitude.
Could it have been “hundreds of thousands” or perhaps “millions”?
4
Not every issue need to be heard from both sides. This is ridiculous. If people protest you recognize what they are protesting about. And debate that. You don’t ask someone, oh - kid, how about you? Why are you not protesting? NYT - you become a problem with you false equivalency. Are the $30month really well spent?
3
You have no interest in the question of why not every student participated? That's very closed minded.
9
Every issue needs to be heard from both sides. If we argue that protested is allowed by the first amendment, and that the press can and should cover it; then at the same time we cannot say an opposing viewpoint is irrelevant or not allowed. The decision has hardly been made as a country, even if your mind, or your group's mind is decided.
The first amendment exists because one side wanted to stop the reporting and expression of another viewpoint. It protects all. And from a news standpoint, we deserve to see all viewpoints and each of us make up our own minds.
5
i grew up there.. i grew up hunting on a poet's land,, with my liberal parents.. one jewish the other protestant.. worked on a dude ranch... that is all you need montana,, the guns necessary to provide you with food.. you don't need the guns that kill children in something around 7 minutes,, or kill adults listening to music.. or any of the gun-related acts of violence... it is time to take a deep look at your gun culture and perspectives on your world.. shame on those from montana who continue to advocate for children being killed,, and humans being killed.. shame on you,, in not protesting that is exactly what you are doing..
76
"parents threatened to ground students who left their classrooms." You want to know what's wrong with America? Just keep repeating that sentence. On so many accounts, it's so emblematic of the problem. First, parents grounding their children enacting the right to free speech. Second, parents endorsing the potential for their children to be killed as a result of lack of reform. Third, parents who can't see the forest for the trees and don't realized the real problem about gun control. I hope these stupid, ignorant and closed minded parents never have to suffer the loss of one of their children. I'd bet they'd change their ignorant tunes very quickly.
77
“Jareth grew up with guns, and hunting is “a sacred thing” in his family”
When it finally sinks in to every American that the movement for strict gun legislation is to eliminate the sale of assault weapons and guns in this country then and maybe then legislation will happen. There is nothing sacred about anyone’s right to purchase an AR-15 which was designed for one thing only….to kill multiple people at a clip. The 2nd amendment was not written for that purpose and the NRA and others should stop using the 2nd amendment as an excuse. It’s deplorable when you have adults including the NRA bashing and demonizing others for voicing an end to the demonic and chaotic gun violence in this country. However, the inaction by our government officials on this issue is even more deplorable.
The NRA could not care less about anyone’s right to bear arms; it’s all about the money. The sooner people realize that the better off we’ll all be.
133
A.A.F. is wrong on every count. I have more respect for the students supporting the Second Amendment than I do those who think oppressive gun laws will fix everything. There is no supporting evidence that the National Rifle Association is not concerned about the people's right to bear arms.
1
The SLPC also exists primarily to raise money, but almost no one would deny they are a civil rights organization, just like the NRA.
1
JC, you know what's oppressive? Leaving in fear of being gunned down at anytime anywhere by an idiot with an assault rifle.
4
Concern over school shootings is sort of like concern over Muslim terrorism in the US. Yes, it happens but there are much greater issues and demonizing one group because a very small fraction commit crimes is not helpful.
Schools are actually very safe. The number of children killed by their parents is an order of magnitude greater than the number killed in schools. And there is NO correlation between gun ownership rates and homicide rates. (There is a correlation between gun ownership rates and suicide, but that's a different issue.)
8
JWaddell: I agree with the painting of a too broad brush you point out. To punish the whole for the sins of the few is called 'collective punishment', and it is a war crime. Lawful gun owners could learn a lot by allying with lawful moslems. We are constantly told that the majority of moslems are not violent and we should harbor no hatred for them. In the same breath we are told that all gun owners are evil and we should hate them with every fiber of our beings.
Your comment on suicide rates and gun ownership is off the mark, however. Sri Lanka has the highest suicide rate of any country in the world. Their gun ownership is 1.5 per 100k citizens. The US has 100 guns per 100k citizens.
A study of Fiji with zero guns found that the women were killing themselves at an astronomical rate using pesticides. The government's answer: Pesticide Control. As if making pesticides illegal would suddenly improve the living situation for those women.
I have over 100 guns in my collection, but manage to not kill myself. Robin Williams had negative guns...he managed to kill himself quite easily.
2
We have, by far, more guns than any other country. We have, by far, more gun homicides than any other country.
There IS, most definitely, a correlation between gun ownership and homicides.
6
And gun ownership and accidental deaths, particularly of small children. You can't argue that guns don't increase the numbers of deaths, because they do.
5
People like Mr. Sholaer are true patriots and American heroes. While I am proud of my sons participation in the walkout, they did so knowing tat the vast majority of people in New York, including their principal, mayor and governor stood with them.
Mr. Sholar and his companions stood in the face of ignorance, tribalism and harassment. But unlike some of his classmates, he knows that the First Amendment more truly captures the American spirit than second.
It is a shame that Mr. Brown does not yet understand that true believers do not need weapons of destruction in order to feel safe.
27
There is a great podcast about the evolving views on the 2nd amendment produced by RadioLab. It shows how this gun ownership issue was a non-issue until around the 60s. Every student who is engaged on this topic should listen to it.
8
It's just an observation and it's just my impression that people who own - and especially those who carry weapons openly - tend to be bullies. Some others project themselves as the type individuals who are looking for an excuse to use them. Machismo. It's also my impression that these traits manifest themselves most prominently when others with a different point of view on weapons express them openly. There is an element of "swagger" involved. Perhaps part of any background investigation should include a mandatory psychiatric evaluation?
10
“Young people speaking their mind, facing so much resistance from behind ...” Stephen Stills, Buffalo Springfield.
High school students (adolescents) are leading while the leaders are mute and timid. Juxtapose legislative inaction on school shootings, to the immediate creation of a bill (with an engaging acronym) to prevent animal carriers in the overhead storage of commercial airliners. “Senators John Kennedy, Republican of Louisiana, and Catherine Cortez Masto, Democrat of Nevada, introduced a bill on Thursday to prohibit airlines from storing animals in overhead compartments. The bill is called Welfare of Our Furry Friends Act, or WOOFF.” Unfortunately our legislators are too willingly distracted by any shiny object while the glare of the school shooting searchlight is ignored.
25
How refreshing to see the Times present different, nuanced viewpoints from two articulate young men who own and use guns.
8
It's encouraging that both students offered thoughtful, reasoned responses -- and neither demonized the other point of view. Our politicians could learn a lot from our young people.
58
Well said
2
the AR-15 is ultimately, a product. meaning it is manufactured as a product to be sold in the marketplace. If the manufacturers of AR-15's stopped manufacturing them (for whatever reason, say, because they are too expensive or they aren't selling enough of them) would that be an infringement of Mr Brown's second amendment rights?
9
Good job by the kids who decided to stay in class. Social pressure in high school to conform with the crowd is a powerful force. And the crowd always makes those who do not conform pay the price, especially in this day of the cruelty that is social media. Some kids are strong enough to maintain their personal values and not take the easy way out.
10
Which group did not conform with the crowd? There is no particular indication in the article that there were more kids outside than inside the school. And what price was paid? It seems a price was paid by Mr. Sholar.
8
Kudos to the student who walked out after being bullied by adults on social media and being physically assaulted by other students. That took real courage.
6
Did it ever occur to you that those who walked out were maintaining "their personal values?"
1
"“Times have changed since they were in high school. We’re a lot more politically active and involved in Montana than a lot of the people who grew up here.”"
In places like Montana change will take a generation or more to come. This is just the start.
2
When victims forcefully speak out, politicians eventually listen. Good going, students!
5
One wonders what the psychological impact will be to a whole generation of American school kids. When a student is sitting in class and suddenly the fire alarm goes off, the blaring sound shocking the senses. Until this year a fire alarm in school might be taken with a bit of grousing or maybe relief of breaking up the monotony of a school day. Today, when a child hears the sudden blare of the fire alarm, what is the first thing that goes through their minds, is it a setup? will they be facing a gun and a gunman in the hallway?will their young life come to a sudden end. Panic start as a small sinking feeling, it doesn't take much to fan the flames into a feeling that you have to escape, you have to run. Panic leaves a mental weight behind, the brain can only take so much worry and anxiety before it begins to show cracks. Children in our schools are being asked to come to grips with the kind of dramatic scenarios that our first responders are trained to deal with, that our soldiers in the field are trained to deal with. This is why they are marching out into the cold air, this feeling, this dread, they want it to end. The only security they will feel is gun laws that take guns out of the hands of the ones who might seek to harm them. Without the assurance of new gun laws, they sit in their classroom feeling not protected by the shield of common sense law and order, but dreading that next alarm, that next lockdown...dreading being the next news story. The next ones.
9
The root cause of the problem at our schools is bad parenting, but it rarely gets a mention.
4
Any evidence for this assertion? It is stated with utter assurance and without any support.
11
I would say the single most important factor is single parenting, as modern feminism pushes single parenting as a wonderful (male-free) option. And everyone is *gasp* shocked when those angry young men raised without a male in their life act out or commit violence.
1
Then I must infer from your statement that US parents are much worse at their job then European & Asain parents.
3
While it is certainly most admirable that high school students are becoming energized and politically aware, especially on an issue so directly concerning them, many commentators are missing crucial aspects and thereby misdirecting students.
In a rush to co-opt student activism (with the failed politics of a derelict political establishment whose utter inability to reign in the shameful scourge of gun violence gave raise to that activism in the first place!) root causes are being overlooked.
The NRA -long since hijacked from promoting safe and limited use of guns, and changed into a corrupt lobbying arm of a morally bankrupt weapons industry- propagandizes using mass deception about American law, history and traditions.
The central aim of public schooling should always be education. Banning private ownership of military type weapons, which have no purpose other than mass killing, is certainly not unconstitutional, and it insults the founding fathers (rolling their graves) to pretend otherwise. It is no accident that the "right to bear arms" is not in the 1st amendment which allows for "no law" abridging free speech, press and religion, but in the 2nd, where it is expressly made a contingent component of well-regulated militias being a bulwark against the risks posed by standing armies to a free society.
The main role of high schools should be to liberate students from myths, such as those of the NRA, and to better inform them of the real history and traditions of America.
12
I was in high school when Columbine happened, and two weeks later some kid pulled a fire alarm. Back then we all stood in one giant crowd facing the school, and for the first time we were scared.
Since then, every fire drill, every lockdown drill (when they started a year or two later) just meant more fear. School went from being a place of safety in a storm to a place where teachers and administrators spent way too much time reminding you how much danger you were in.
Does anyone remember having to hold their kindergartener’s hand that night after their first lockdown drill? Telling their grade one or grade two student that, no, we didn’t actually think anyone would catch the school on fire or shoot them?
Is it any wonder our kids are dealing with record-breaking levels of anxiety?
We need to move to stop gun violence now, so that these kids are the last kids to go to school in fear.
37
There will always be those in any crowd who are there for the wrong reason, but even in gun-friendly Montana there are people who don't think it's right to have AR15s on the streets. What's more troubling is that Montana -- with a population of about 600,000 -- gets the same number of Senators in Washington as CA with over 30 million people. The fact that a majority of 600,000 would have the same voice as the majority of 30 million is a travesty that our founding fathers never could have imagined. 30 senators in DC represent states with less people than Queens, NY... so frankly I'm becoming less and less interested in what "gun-friendly" Montana has to say about this issue...
118
It's tragic that we must have student walk-outs to call attention to the escalation of our country into a defacto "war zone." This isn't because people own guns. No. It's because people can own military-level firearms.
We are being held hostage by a minority of a-moral lobbyists, gun manufacturers and wrong-minded citizens.
4
This is exactly why Montana gets 2 senators and equal representation in Senate as massive states like NY and California. Even if their viewpoint may conflict with ours. The other half of congress is represented proportionate to population, with NY having 27 representatives and Montana just 1. If we just had the latter, Montana would be at the mercy of large states like NY and have no representation.
Our founding fathers faced just that same debate. Delaware faced complete domination by massive Virginia in representation, and wouldn't ratify any constitution that did not allow small states a voice.
The senate puts each state on equal footing, and doesn't allow the few large states to dominate others based on population. Nor should anyone hope to do so frankly, in spirit of pushing forward their own agenda.
3
This appear to be patently untrue. Here is a listing of State population levels in 1770 (highest and lowest). Virginia has roughly 19.5x more people.
1. Virginia 447,016
13. Georgia 23,375
In 2017, California has 39M compared to 1.05M for Montana, or roughly 37x more residents. It's ridiculous to say that they could not have imagined a disparity of 37-1 when they already had disparities of 19.5-1.
1
While I admire the verve of the high school walkouts, they are really just repeating an endless pattern of polarizing conduct.
If they really wanted to do something different, perhaps they should have staged a discussion day with maximum inclusivity.
4
CNN did this, quite effectively, with their Town Hall meeting with the MJD High School students on stage with their Senator Marco Rubio and their Representative. It was a lively back and forth, especially with Rubio and the kids. The last segment was with a NRA rep, Dana Losch. She tapped danced around her answers; then followed with a horrible "ad" for the NRA that had her looking like the Black Witch, Elvira!
6
T, I’m sure many schools did have that discussion. They probably have had that discussion almost daily in schools across the nation. Why? Because good teachers realize how traumatizing school shootings are to their students.
2
All guns designed primarily to kill people need to be banned. It’s common sense. That might not do much to save lives, but it’s a step towards changing the culture which is the real problem. The kids walking out are a good thing, but it illustrates a fault of human nature. Us humans will fear the unknown more than things that are truly harmful every time. We get all worked up over gun deaths meanwhile we forget about more deadly things that we could actually do something about like accident deaths or drug deaths.
3
Max: Adapting tools is one of the hallmarks of the human mind. Banning something because of its intended purpose short-circuits creativity. My "designed for killing people" guns from the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, Winter War, Russian Revolution are used for hunting and competition. Some of them have definitely killed people, but not since I go them. Hardware is not the problem.
You are correct that we should focus on other areas to save lives. Like reducing the 250k citizens who die from sepsis in the US every year. Most got it while in a hospital.
The CDC top ten ways to die in America puts firearms at the bottom as a subset of suicides (about 21k). The bulk of suicides in the US do not involve firearms. Heart disease kills over 600k every year.
1
Good to see that there are students in all parts of the country willing to keep this debate alive. The threat to their lives is real and the reasons this threat exists are quite obvious. Guns ARE more important than people, and these kids are really starting to understand that, they are uneasy about this discovery and they are helping us come to grips with this sad truth and really want to change it. Guns should not be sacred. They are tools and very dangerous tools if not handled properly. Rules, certifications, references, restrictions, insurance should all be part of having the right to own and use these tools. Our children are sacred. I think these kids want to remind us of that truth.
7
It’s very encouraging to see that Billings West High, in the heart of gun country, was open to allowing students to express their views without any penalty as opposed to some of the schools in the New York area that suspended them.
While many students around the country probably did want to skip school or fraternize, just the fact that so many of young people are taking this so seriously, and are continuing to make their voices heard, at a time when so many adults are complacent or ambivalent about what’s happening in the world around them, is very hopeful and inspiring.
27
This was a good balanced pieces that shows the strongest moral/legal arguments on both sides. More of these kinds of pieces would be good instead of the general left-leaning pieces that use right-leaning arguments as punching bags. That being said, I do not think that having military grade weapons is the the right of every American, it doesn’t make sense. What does a family need an assault rifle for? A normal rifle for hunting is fine- limit the ammo to lower damage rounds (ie. stop selling hollow points which burst inside the target so the shrapnel causes even more damage). Honestly, who uses an assault rifle to hunt deer? Which civilian needs access to high damage rounds?
As an aside, pushing the gun ownership age to 21 is..pointless. Most people who grow up around guns often use them at young ages anyway. Being able to buy one would probably be as easy as asking someone of age to buy them for you, like cigarettes. As an unforeseen side effect, it may even cause the age for entering the army to shift toward 21 as well. After all, officially sanctioned gun ownership by minors would be contradictory to US law and would open up the government to countless lawsuits.
In the end, while there are decent arguments on each side, I believe that the best solution is to ban military grade weapons and ammo for civilian ownership and use. Outright gun bans are not the answer, and are not politically permissible.
6
I'm inspired by students standing up for responsible gun legislation. At 70, the students have energized me in support of their efforts. Hang in there, kids. We are with you.
18
I disagree with school walkouts for the purpose of protesting. It sets a bad precedent. If a group of students wishes to protest something they should do it on their own time. What if a group of students wished to protest protecting the Second Amendment? Would that be acceptable too? Can of worms.
4
It sounds like you disagree with the argument behind the protestor, and are disagreeing with the protest as a guise for that, knowingly or not.
People don't usually protest existing laws. I would have supported this being a dual rally though. Where students could choose what they believe and voice that opinion on different halves of a field. However I fear that would be too diversionary, too hate driven for both sides, and only lead to negativity.
These dual-view discussions should be encouraged on all sides though. An organized school or class debate of both sides could do this. Educationally, often people debate the opposing viewpoint even, which can be an interesting exercise. Even just allow students to express themselves, articulately on matters through peaceful presentation could be enlightening to all.
MH, Actually I don't have a dog in this fight. By the way I totally concur with your idea of encouraging dual view discussions and perhaps organized school debate. I'm all for meaningful, respectful, thoughtful public discourse instead of kids walking out of schools.
1
Seeing both sides of the mirror. I’ve lived pretty much all over the US. To me, Montana is still one of my favorite places. My daughter was born in Billings. I’ve lived in Red Lodge and Laurel and Billings. All of my friends had guns and used them for hunting. In order to understand the mind set of most of the people who live in places like Montana and Wyoming, you really have to live there.
Fast forward to today. It’s NOT the same anymore. While living in Montana and Wyoming, most people used their guns for hunting. NOT for sport. I never saw a military style weapon being used by any of my friends. That was back in the late 70’s. I don’t have a clue what the ideology is today regarding AR-15’s, but I just have one question: What hunter in Montana or Wyoming has to use an AR-15? Kudos to the young man who did walk out with his fellow students the other day. He’s the real future for our country.
11
It's interesting that Jareth thinks he is entitled to a bring a gun to school but criticisizes the students for attending a peacful assembly as being "almost foolhardy," "aren't quite ready to make a change," and "don't know where to make a start."
Perhaps Jareth can start by reading the text of the First Amendment.
12
Yeah, but Jareth was not planning a walkout to remove the 1st Amendment. He was exercising his first, would like to continue to exercise his second. Sounds like a very intelligent young man.
2
I've never been prouder of my students or school than I was during our Walkout. Students designed every part of a day to honor the dead, express their fears and agitate for change.
In a driving snowstorm, students and faculty silently filed out carrying signs we'd made earlier. Seventeen empty chairs were arrayed across the patio by a fountain. Each had a beautiful black and white photo of the deceased. Students as young as thirteen spoke of their fears and rage, others read poems or sang, but it was a young prime teacher who held us spellbound.
Nine months pregnant, she broke down crying before she spoke then explained that she now feels, in her body, the duality of demands on her as a teacher and mother. She spoke of despair in the aftermath of the shooting, her sense of helplessness, and her fears for her baby... until students took up the challenge and filled her with hope.
She shared a poem her first graders had written about feeling safe; a line about not having "bears in the hall" drew laughter until she clarified that the horror of having to train children so young has led them to call active shooters "bears." Laughter turned to tears.
She later told me that part of her anguish is her terror wondering if she would have the courage to sacrifice herself, and hence her baby, in order to save her students if the crisis called for that. I confess to feeling rage.
As we left, the wind picked up howling and the snow fell harder. Each chair held its own snow drift.
80