I think there is a lot of confounding information, i.e., noise, in this story. I am surprised by the level of vitriol in the comments and I think the element of religion serves to inflame passions and, in a way, distract. The article itself assumes (next-to-last-paragraph) that a sexual assault took place, and some comments use the word "rape," but I do not see that supported by Ms. Woodson's story in the blog post to which the article links. I don't see how Mr. Savage forced Ms. Woodson to do anything or how that would be consistent with her thinking "that Andy loved me."
Perhaps the point here is about how religion can cloud a naive person's mind into trusting a person they should not, but I do not see how the religious element turns a situation that would not otherwise be assault into one that is. We are talking about a 22-year-old and a 17-year-old, and, if I understand correctly, the age of consent in this case is 17.
20
There is a difference between forgiveness and accountability. As Christians, we forgive those who trespass against us but that does not absolve anyone from the crime they committed. You pay for the crime you committed. Feel free to repent while you serve your time in prison.
22
We all owe you, Jules
10
This is a typical pastor who stays within his “pond” where he is affirmed by people of his own kind and views those who counsels him as “wise”. Look at his mission statement ....Making God make sense . Who thinks one can make God do anything? Does the created say to the creator “You make sense”? Yet I wonder how many in his circle of friends have read that statement and thought wow I want to listen ,follow and buy his products? His church gave him a standing ovation !! The man who thinks he can make God make sense and a man who was allowed to have influence over weaker people even after he committed, at the very least , a breach of ethics and took advantage of someone under his care ! I’m afraid that the wise counsel he has received is from the father of all lies the devil. Time’s up church!!! Stop trying to squeeze yourselves in the mold of the world instead of being transformed by the God who gives His spirit that makes the Word make sense NOT Andy Savage .
9
He should be in prison. All statute of limitations for crimes against children and any sexual crime should be removed.
Tell me some more about how great church and religion are.
15
Religious people are some of the biggest hypocrites, and some of the Evangelicals fit the bill just as other groups. Its unfortunate part of the patriarchy we live in. It just shows Andy Savage the pastor is a creepy molester who should have been shamed publicly at least as the Law cannot touch him because of the statute of limitations. it shows the congregation of that church in Memphis is equally creepy and evil who stood up to applaud a man who sexually assaulted a teenager.
15
This case, upon closer inspection (and all too typically so), murkier and more complicated than the article's summary.
Clearly the pastor abused the young woman and has been less than forthcoming afterwards about what he did. But, it is also misleading to call this assault. By her own account, he tricked, seduced and exploited her, he did not assault her. It was "statutory rape," but would not have been "rape" had she been his age.
His statements today are not entirely consistent and complete. Neither are hers, however. Her oral interview says he said he loved her. Her written statement contradicts this saying she thought he loved her. Her written statement is also inconsistent in saying, first that she told her youth group the story, and later than no one else was informed about it except the pastor's immediate higher-up.
The biggest mystery is why -given how mortified she says she was (and no doubt actually was)- she did not tell her parents what happened. She was willing to tell the youth group, which must have been painful, but could not confess to her own parents.
Selective stories like this are not a very good path to preventing such abuse in the future.
7
Jules' story is absolutely infuriating, but not surprising.
If you're christian and you do something despicable you can simply "pray to god for forgiveness" to be fully absolved. Furthermore, going to church every Sunday is all that is required to be a "good person" (not, you know, actually doing the right thing, or treating others as you'd be treated). In fact, going to church every week gives you the standing to judge the actions of others who don't attend!
What's described above sounds like a wonderful refuge for frauds and hypocrites, does it not? In my personal experience that is EXACTLY what it is.
18
Hypocrisy reigns in the Christian Church. We have heard all about the Catholic church's hiding the sins of its clergy for decades if not centuries. Now it is time for the Protestant churches to stand up and also say "NO MORE" Crocodile tears about 'past mistakes" are not enough. Most of these hypocrites have to do more than say I am sorry for my past behavior. They must seriously atone for their sins. There is no Statute of Limitations before God.
16
Evangelical pastors are all the same... Fire and brimstone preaching to the congregation about sin, heaven and hell .. then they turn around and commit acts of debauchery ... very few live the life they preach .. and the ones who legitimately adhere to their teachings.. well perhaps God will forgive them too.
13
Never golf with an evangelical. If it's not take another mulligan, it's hit til you're happy. Unless God is your marker, you can shoot a really low score that way.
4
Blinded. All. George Orwell has been quoted to have said: "To see what is right in front of one's nose requires a constant struggle." Keep telling #MeToo, until the veil falls from everyone's eyes.
19
You have to wonder about the mindset of these evangelicals. Savage gets applause from these people.....really???????!!!!!
18
'I like your Christ, but I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.'
25
Maybe this isn't a fit analogy, but here's what occurred to me while reading this article. I was in 6th grade. Our teacher had stepped away from the classroom briefly when several of the kids began acting up, myself included. I was out of my seat, in the front of the room, when a classmate standing near the door saw the teacher coming back down the hall. She bolted to return to her seat. As she went past me, for some reason I stuck out my foot, tripping her. She went down, giving me a look of shock and dismay, but I bolted to my own seat. My classmate got up and told our teacher what I had done. After he settled us all down and spoke generally about his disappointment that we had behaved poorly while he was in the hall, he took me out into the hall.
"Did you trip her?" he asked me. I acknowledged that I had.
"Did you help her up? Did you apologize?" he continued.
I admitted I'd done neither of those things.
"Then you made several mistakes, isn't that so?" Indeed.
"What can you do now?" he looked me full in my face.
"I will apologize to her," I said. "I will not do it again."
And I did apologize. And I did not do it again.
15
Sadly, many to most churches practice 'the big lie'. Guilt is the best leverage they have to keeping you in the organization, especially more fundamental sects such as southern Baptists. I know: I dated a young woman of that 'faith'.
6
While knowing nothing of THIS church, my sense is that churches in general, while serving as refuge to the downtrodden and marginalized, also serve as refuge to hypocrites and to their assorted hypocrisies.
As such rot is systemic within organized religion, I suspect that nothing can be done about this apart from cautioning young people who might be thinking of entering the church that too many so-called "houses of God" feature such dangers.
While religion can heal, it can also destroy. My sense is that Jules Woodson might agree. Her story is heart-rendering and her life is deserving of true healing.
9
Christ is all about salvation, redemption and forgiveness of sins for all. I’ll be happy to applaud you too, Ms. Woodson, once that sinks in.
5
True, JD. But you’ve missed the point in a rather obvious way. This perpetrator/sinner has offered only the most superficial of apologies — apparently one that he was forced to give when his victim went public; clearly the only reason he gave his half-hearted “apology” at all in the first place. (Recall that the victim called him and he ignored her). Where was the call to the victim, the request to HER for forgiveness? Why did his “apology” fail to even use his victim’s name? He cynically orchestrated the moment to shift the narrative from an act of contrition to one meant to “instruct” about forgiveness and redemption. How cynical; how convenient. Get in and get out with as little focus as possible on the grievousness of your sin and the havoc it may have wrought on the life of a young innocent. He never asked his victim for forgiveness with any sincerity at all and, thus, cannot achieve redemption. The fact that his mega church applauded instructs me that Christ’s message of forgiveness and redemption is easily perverted and used with a healthy dose of cynicism again and again by church leaders. Yet, you have the effrontery to chide the victim. And I imagine your cohort at this mega church might do the same. I suspect Christ weeps at all this. I know I do.
24
Jules Woodson says, "We, as a church, of all places, should be getting this right."
But they don't. Consistently. While I admire her courage and call for her church to practice what they preach, my expectations of any church on this issue are less than for other institutions. I hope that the comfort and support that she gets from a more enlightened community liberates her from seeking support from the church. I hope that comfort and support that she gets encourages her in seeking justice from the church.
14
I just read the full blog post of Ms. Woodson's experience with the pastor. These weren't a couple of high school kids fooling around in the back seat of dad's car after the prom. This was an adult with a trusted position in the community taking advantage of an underage woman he was responsible to protect. Then, after his 5 minutes of fun, he jumps out of the car, begs his savior for mercy and tells the victim she needs to carry this dreadful secret to her grave.
I can now understand the mutual attraction between Trump and the evangelical community. I'm just mildly surprised that Pastor Andy didn't get Ms. Woodson to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
38
why i am not now and never will be a member of any church:
the thought of spending eternity with the likes of those who urge goodness on others before rinsing their own shady parts thoroughly and constantly, as needed, gives me the willies!
15
Churches are the perfect spawning ground for sexual predators. Churches that are large enough to employ a youth pastor are even more so. This should be of no surprise to anyone. That churches are also populated primarily by self-righteous members who preach one thing on Sunday and do another the rest of the week is universal. But we Christians know that we will be forgiven of our sins, so it's all good.
12
Hypocrisy. So called Christians. Why was the victim not approached, pleaded to for forgiveness, and applauded for her strength?
14
The 'born-again' are very forgiving, of their own when they make a tearful and dramatic confession. Reminded of Jim Swaggart, confessing in front of a stadium (I assume all ticketholders of which he got a good chunk of the gate - ka-ching!), tearfully, "I am a sinner!" boo hoo hoo, after having a prostitute in his hotel room and doing the unmanly 'touching himself' rather than having sex with her. The crowd loved it (ka-ching!). Twisted chumps. The rest of us, including regular church/etc. goers, see through charlatans such as this man - the man, the setup.
15
Shame on you Mr. Savage for taking advantage of Ms. Woodson and in particular Mr. Cotton, to whom she reprted her sexual assault, for doing absolutely nothing. Furthermore, shame on the congregation, men as well as women, who applauded Mr. Savage because he kind of "confessed" to his misdeeds.
I hope Ms. Woodson is able to sue the church and Mr. Savage.
22
It is amazing how America has managed to spawn mostly morally depraved "Christians."
These fake "Christians" are especially skilled at forgiving one another for their ongoing sins and have elevated hypocrisy to the 11th Commandment.
America's "Christian" fundamentalists and evangelicals plainly are bad people. who do not deserve to live in a civilized society.
13
Clergymen sexually assaulting their parishioners deserve only to be
(1) defrocked,
(2) tattooed irreversibly, and
(3) driven out of the community forever.
12
Read the facts: This is a story of a young male adult asking a young female adult (age of consent = 17) to participate in a sex act and the female adult agreeing. Maybe it was inappropriate to ask, and maybe it was unfortunate to agree, but when we apply the term "assault" to an incident such as this, we downgrade the term assault and discredit actual victims of assault. We also infantilize women.
12
That is not true. This man was in a position of power and the girl trusted him in that position. In addition to his power as a leader, he also carried (and still does) this perceived sacredness by those in his care due to the religious nature of his work. There was no mutuality here. He abused his power. Period.
26
If this young adult male was a public school teacher and she was a student in his class would you be making the same argument? He had a position of power and authority, both by role and relationship.
25
This is the big difference between Christianity and organized religion. Please do not confuse the two. One exists to make us a better species, the other exists to maintain a power structure that benefits those in power. Sound familiar?
14
My parents never taught me that sexual sins were the worst sins. For that matter, Jesus never taught that either. (He is much harder on pride, on the passing of harsh judgments, and on the accumulation of wealth. ) Anyhow, should we consider urging parents not to teach young women that incidents such as this -- although distressing -- are terrible violations of their purity and innocence after which it is almost their duty to suffer terribly? Why not say that only the instigator's innocence is compromised by behavior like that described here? I do appreciate the terror someone might feel at being taken into the woods instead of home, but this does not seem to be the victim's concern in this case. A saner attitude towards unwanted advances (that stop short of rape or violence) could prevent a lot of suffering.
5
These weren't two kids out fooling around after a date. The instigator got a standing ovation for his "confession of sin" so I'm not seeing how his innocence was compromised. There was a clear imbalance of power . If adults responded to the real issue by holding the perpetrator accountable it might go a long way toward healing for the victim.
10
Why does it matter if all the people in that church forgive Mr. Savage? The only forgiveness that matters is Ms. Woodson's. The church members can't forgive him for her. Only she can offer that, and if she doesn't then he is not forgiven. Prisons are full of criminals who are sorry and have apologized. Every day in courtrooms around the country defendants cry and apologize. But, only the victim can forgive the crime. An apology does not absolve guilt (except maybe at High Point Church.) From what I have read, Mr. Savage has never contacted Ms. Woodson to ask her forgiveness, so his sincerity is doubtful, because who else's matters?
15
If it happened once, it's likely there are other "incidents."
11
This is such a sad story. We need to educate our daughters and our sons. Both Ms. Woodson and Mr. Savage were so young in their respective lives. Yes, Mr. Savage was in a position of authority, but did he really understand the responsibility that positions of authority demands? Our daughters grow up reading fairy tales, looking for love and interpreting requests for sex as love and the promise of a relationship. My 15 year daughter questioned if this was really assault. I don't know. It is confusing. If Ms. Woodsen had denied the request, would Mr. Savage have forced himself on her or would he have apologized and realized in that moment what he requested was wrong? And how do we educate and empower our girls to say "no". This has had a life long negative impact on Ms. Woodson and i feel sorry for her in this regard. And we have all done things we regret and need to learn from. There;s no easy answer here and i go back to the importance of educating our boys as much as our girls and keeping the discussions going.
8
The phrase "sexual incident" is so vague as to be almost laughable. Many terms used by the me-too movement are equally so. I call this fake news.
They we both kids. Th jails would be full if all such incidents were tried in court.
6
We need to eliminate or greatly lengthen these statutes of limitation. It is just SO convenient that by the time women have recovered and grown up enough to go after their perps, the perps are legally off the hook. This is wrong and needs to end.
10
This sordid episode reflects the widely accepted attitudes to Forgiveness and Salvation among the religious and religiously inspired followers of the Abrahamic Faiths. These attitudes have been fostered by male theologians and clergy and not many in these groups challenge how mere human beings can invoke, grant or even judge God Given Forgiveness and Salvation. The assaulter Pastor Savage has petitioned God with his clever choice of words intended to get rousing applause of clerics and lay folks of all genders. Have they paused to think about the silent victim? It is shocking as is the attitude of many women who seem to criticise the victim for waiting so long. God's Forgiveness and assurance of Salvation are both Divine Mystery and not gained by cheap silver tongued pulpit oratory. Meantime as mere mortals lets seek justice with our laws for the thousands of victims of assault. Some comments in this column seem to imply that there are shades of assault and somehow some of those assaults need to be overlooked. What nonsense!! I'm reminded of President Clinton's famous reply to avoid perjury and escape impeachment. Sadly, the Catholic Church and the evangelical institutions to which we look up to as our moral compass have been the most compromised in condoning sexual assaults.
2
People who have been surprised by the tolerance of evangelicals for Donald Trump's immoral behavior should take a lesson from this story. Hypocrisy runs deep in this bunch, but it's worse than that. As long as you say pious things, what you do doesn't much matter. I think it's a social class issue.
16
If Savage was truly remorseful he would do everything in his power to stop the ongoing abuse and threats directed at Jules Woodson. Her dignity was taken from her. Shame on the church that’s abandon her and shame on Andy Savage.
13
Look how often he uses the word I and it was 20 years ago. Me, me, me......it was 20 years ago and so it doesn't matter.
8
When a religion guarantees forgiveness no matter what you do and who you do it to, after a little chat with the Big Guy in charge, it is nothing more than a rigged game that allows predators ( financial, sexual and fraudsters) to walk off after destroying the lives of others, to continue their con.
Its amazing how Christianity and capitalism have come to resemble each other so closely.
4
It is so easy to repent when there is no consequence. Another exemple of hypocrisy of religions.
9
Thank you NYTs for publishing this..........especially with the video. Perfect. This goes on in churches across the nation. These men are gods to their congregants and only narcissists would behave this way.
6
I must admit that I am amazed by the emotional impact that this sexual encounter had on this woman.
4
Oddly, most of the independent, non-denominational Christian ministries preach that the admission to heaven is simply by accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. There's no incentive to acting morally because the rewards are in heaven and the ticket is simply believing in Jesus and asking his forgiveness. With this belief system, why are we surprised?
8
How can so many people live this fantasy world? Why does his congregation need to forgive him? Did he assault every one of them? Karl Marx made mistakes, but his observation on religion was spot on.
4
All in the name of God and Country - Amen!
4
Has anyone read the bible lately? Andy Savage _was_ acting 'biblically' - Jules was lucky that the church didn't decide to act on the classic biblical follow-thru of stoning her to death. Jules Woodson deserves our support and compassion. And the statutes of limitations on sexual assault crimes needs to be removed. Sexual assault doesn't just happen once and it's over. For the victim, it never goes away.
19
The evangelical community in this country has long demonstrated a hearty capacity for absolving their own sinners while viciously demonizing outsiders. Their warmth for Donald Trump is a familiar example, and so is this.
26
A church pastor should not be treated like a cult leader. You're a Christian, you say? Then throw the bum out and hire a new pastor.
16
Do we really think that Jules Woodson was the only victim? Do we really think that Andy Savage never did it before she was his victim or that there weren't others after her? The MEtoo movement has shown us many things, including that sexual abuse is a pattern repeated by the men until they are stopped
17
I commend her for bringing to light the institutionalized misogyny of the church. It's not surprising, however, that her church would attack her, and embrace him. It is part of a system that unites itself by hatred, institutionalized self-righteousness, and perversion and prostitution of their Bible.
13
Just as the church shields the sins - - the abuse of women, the lies told on almost all fronts, the racist behavior of throwing blacks out of his rental apartments, defrauding small business owners who did work for him - -of our President so they shield the sexual predators still leading many of our churches. It is appalling, these Evangelicals and their lack of God. It is appalling condoning these "sins" saying it is because we are all sinners in need of redemption. A great sin has been committed on America by these so called pastors - on the individual level like this brave woman, and on our society, their support for the sinner Trump.
10
NYT, can you please upload the video accompanying this article to YouTube?
If not, can someone here who is more technically adept than I make a copy of the NYT video and post it to YouTube?
It needs worldwide circulation to ensure maximum humiliation for Andy Savage and, just as importantly, the sick church with which he is affiliated.
The sick men and women who think that sexual assault can be forgiven with the recitation of empty words.
Andy Savage is not sorry, and I doubt he believes in a higher power.
One thing is certain: if there IS a higher power, Andy Savage aint going to heaven.
12
This is par for the course as far as the evangelical movement goes. After all, it overwhelmingly supported for President a man who admitted to committing adultery when married to his first two wives, was accused of sexual assault by nearly twenty women, appears to have engaged in adultery with a porn actress shortly after his third wife gave birth, boasted about sexual assault when he did not know he was being recorded, and supported a child molester for a Senate seat. And he denies it all, seeking forgiveness for nothing. I guess being “born again” means you are morally in a perpetual state of being born yesterday.
20
This so-called apology is so sick, sick, sick. An evangelical congregation applauds while a woman sobs her trauma. No wonder the church pulled the video. The assailant's last name is perversely appropriate. Good job NY Times. Keep it up. paul in bessemer, al
21
A lot of religious communities seem to want people to fall and be humbled and come back with a story to tell, then they get celebrated for seeing the light. The people who get fallen on, get nothing for their role in the fallen's narrative of recovery.
91
In yesterday's Times there was an article about African-Americans fleeing evangelical churches especially after the pastor in a huge church in the Dallas/ Fort Worth area tactically endorsed voting for Trump without mentioning him by name. What matters not is sexual assault otherwise Trump would not be a moral choice. All men no matter how vile are quickly forgiven and appalled for their spirituality. (I am pointing a finger at you Franklin Graham, for shame.) What is more important than victims of sexual assault is forcing women to take a mistaken pregnancy to term. This results in a new human that can be ignored by not supporting programs that would help the mother and child. Defund Planned Parenthood that treats women with dignity and protects their rights that Evangelicals want to take away. Sexual assault is just fine as long as you sort of apologize, get applause and carry on with your ministry. However I know of no apology from Trump and that's OK too. I have read the Gospels and know in my heart that Jesus would never approve of this road taken in his name.
10
Jules’s account does describe a sexually assault, but just barely and legalistically. The perp had to resign from his position, and, implied in the pastor’s statement, he has been privately disclosing this incident to employers over the years. Will someone please tell me what they think the proper punishment should have been for this? I really don’t think think this “assault” would merit being cast out of society (or the church) forever. There is no pattern of assault alleged here and no indication that the perpetrator wasn’t remorseful. I’m frankly shocked this could continue to bother the victim for 20 years. That an incident such as this could carry this much weight over decades is evidence of our culture’s overemphasis on sex and sexual behavior as part of identity and self concept.
10
Perhaps someday if you are "just barely" sexually assaulted you will have the answer to your question.
14
"...been privately disclosing this incident to employers over the years..."
Savage has been telling "his" version of it. In his telling of it, the "incident" was consensual. He doesn't acknowledge the deception involved or the use of his authority as a minister to intimidate her.
Savage should not be put in a position of authority, he should not be left alone with girls or young women, and he should never be allowed to work in any capacity as a counselor of any type. This is not for punishment. This is to protect other girls and women from him.
9
Christians complain that we are no longer seen as culturally relevant. The hypocrisy of those at Highpoint Church are a clear example of why. It makes it very difficult for those of us trying to push back against broken aspects of our culture; we are all tainted by the behavior of those who value "christish culture" over Christ.
11
The youth pastor only took action and sought forgiveness AFTER it became public (blog) . Cue the Jimmy Swaggart tears.
13
I am just sorry this woman is experiencing backlash from "Christians"? How shameful of them.
Savage should be removed from the ministry. Or he should step down. That would be the Christian thing to do.
9
It really is time for churches to relinquish their tax exempt status. They've become havens for all manner of misogynistic, depraved behavior under the banner of "god".
14
One thing that is abundantly clear is the "evangelical christians" are not Christians in any meaningful sense of that term!
At best they are a "social club" and at worst ,a dark and dangerous cult!
14
These churchgoers are nothing more than lemmings.
If you need a man like this or congregation of cheap to make you feel better about yourself worth each week and you have serious problem.
This dope getting up there with this act of contrition and his teary-eyed apology is sickening.
There is, I hope, very special place in hell for all these people that make money off the name of God and supposed to know the mind of God, we can only hope......
Eternity is a very long time
6
Did anyone, anywhere, expect a different result than what transpired ?
6
If his contrition is real he should waive the statute of limitations.
9
I do NOT like the terms "sexual assault" and "sexual incident". I understand the word "rape" although even that term is overused when we apply it to incidents where sexual intercourse was voluntary but smoothed by alcohol.
When something happens which we do not like or are supposed not to like, I want to know WHAT it was that happened rather than a vague term being used by people who want to see crime everywhere.
If I borrow money from someone and fail to return it, or return it but only AFTER the promised date, it isn't theft and it isn't robbery. It is merely a non-return of a loan or tardy return of a loan.
America has become overrun by people who see crime, especially sexual crime, everywhere. This is a dangerous attitude towards sex which is complex enough all by itself!
I am not saying that what Mr. Savage did was OK. If he did something which was not OK, I want to know WHAT it was before I condemn him.
8
" If he did something which was not OK, I want to know WHAT it was before I condemn him."
1 Savage had sexual relations with a girl under the age of consent.
2 He used his position in the church to do it to achieve the trust of his victim and her parents.
3 He then deceived her and her parents by saying he would drive her home when he was really taking her to a deserted place where no one could witness what was going to happen.
This is not a court of law so you/we do not need to know all the details.
6
Let me see if I understand this. Savage as youth pastor of Highpoint Church in Memphis doesn't walk a young woman home as he said but takes her out into the woods and assaults her. She years later gives him the opportunity to privately apologize but he ignores her. When she tells her story at a blog for victims of church abuse, then he does a staged public apology to the applause of the church.
I am going to advance a hypothesis. It's speculation based on observation of others, but it's testable. Another article on evangelical churches describes how massive white evangelical support for racism and anti-hispanic bigotry in 2016 have, to no sane human being's surprise, reduced attendance by blacks and hispanics. Did the white members of this church mainly support Trump, and if so how's the black and hispanic outreach program doing? I think these phenomena, widespread among evangelicals, may be related.
6
Besides, I have since read that this church already has a pastor who's a convicted statutory rapist.
3
It is sad that so many folks who claim to be Christian do not care what men do to women, do not care about people of color, do not care what happens to the poor. It's as if they have never read a thing that the gospels tell us Jesus taught.
13
Your bravery is inspiring, and I believe that God’s heart is broken for you. As a church, we must do better. Thank you for being brave enough to share your story and your reaction to this despicable crime and the way that people try to diminish your pain.
4
In classic evangelical style, the perp, always a man, makes an apology that more often than not, basically implies that he fell victim to a temptress (inevitably a younger, trusting member of the flock) that lead him astray. He then asks for forgiveness (as good Christians do) and all is forgiven and in fact his standing is enhanced by his overcoming his failings and getting back on the horse. And as always, the female victim is quickly forgotten and as often as not shunned. If you need anymore evidence of the moral bankruptcy of these organization these episodes provide it. Is it any surprise that the sheep gleefully hand over their SS checks to keep the fraud going? Shameful.
8
What percentage of avowed Christians do not practice - in fact, stomp all over Jesus' teachings? 5%, 50%? It's too many that anyone who claims the mantel is going to be suspicious to me.
3
The sense of empowerment evangelical religion fosters can be truly frightening. Whatever they personally want becomes "God's will." It is the will of God that the preacher have a private jet and a mansion and, evidently, free rein with 17 year olds. Further, it becomes God's will that the rest of society be ruled by their dogmatic, medieval beliefs. They are the core opponents of responsible gun control, the equality of women, LGBT rights, public education and even measures to combat climate change. Evangelical religion is a cancer at the heart of the U.S.
5
"Highpoint Memphis and Andy Savage - if you’ll recall - is the same church that was in the forefront of the news in Memphis in November 2016 for their role in the cover-up of sexual abuse by former church youth leader Chris Carwile. We subsequently uncovered that Highpoint allowed a convicted sex offender in a position of leadership at the church. "
That quote is from the blog that originally published Jules' recounting of her assault by Savage.
4
Not all evangelicals are sexually assaulting hypocritices. Most Roman Catholic priests are fine community leaders who genuinely care for their parishioners. Sadly, the hierarchies that employ these figures are corporations whose actions are impelled by self-interest and self-preservation. So the haplessly ethical middle managers get swept up in the scandals of their supervisors.
Hence, we have Ralph Reed giving a "mulligan" to President Trump for his serially abusive salaciousness against his wife and against all womankind. It is incumbent upon the "failing" press to keep Jules Woodson's story, and countless others like it, front and center in the public eye so that we won't forget how our moral gatekeepers conduct their own personal lives.
6
The fact that he drove her to the woods under the pretext of safely taking her home, then exposed himself to her and asked her to perform oral sex on him warranted a call to the police and his removal from the church. If a young teacher or even student teacher did such a thing to a student, people/parents would be horrified. Why would anyone excuse this from a pastor? Positions of trust can not be held by untrustworthy people.
12
When confronted by self described “Christians”,
I clutch my purse, checkbook, cash, credit cards and run.
11
This whole idea of forgiveness in these Evangelical churches is a farce. It is not for the laic to forgive sins. Only god can do that. And if the sinner has indeed sold his soul to the Devil, then there is no redemption because one needs a soul to be redeemed. All these folks do is help the sinner dupe others. And in this case it is not the Parishes right to forgive anything it is the wronged women and god, no one else. Evangelicals keep showing us how little Christian they are.
1
Power protects power. And some people want tone sheep....
The sin of hypocrisy may be worse than other sins because it tends to excuse inexcusable behavior by the most sanctimonious among us. Which is why more and more of us are repulsed by organized religion, especially evangelicals.
6
My last sentence was writte very badly:
It should ask. "When will real men acknowledge their responsibility for abusing women and undertake to guide young men to being responsible men? L&B&L
2
I was afraid if he said, “20 years ago” one more time, I would throw up in my mouth. I feel terrible for Ms. Woodson, but I am angry at Savage and at the culture that tells us we can always trust professional religionists. Of course, the church covered it up. The church has always been a male-dominated universe.
11
Dear Ms. Woodson, my heart goes out to you. I want to thank you on behalf of all survivors of sexual assault for being willing to speak about this experience. Your voice is the voice of millions of others from around the world. It is the voice of women who, along the centuries, have been manipulated and lied to, coerced and violated in the name of God. Unfortunately, toxic masculinity is one of the forces that have kept religion a patriarchal institution and will continue to do so until women and men together find a way to rebuild, for those who have a need for organized religion, a version of believing in God that respects all individuals equally. When religious leaders today decry the rise of feminism as the root of all evil when it comes to divorce, infidelity, and other sins, do not be fooled. Feminism is a mirror that casts the necessary harsh light on this disgusting aspect of patriarchal hypocrisy.
Dear Ms. Woodson, I hope you will find the loving community that practices what they preach. But it may not be inside a religious institution.
73
It was back in the 80's, when Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker were undergoing their sexual contrition tours, that I read the article, so forgive me for not remembering the author or the publication, but a year does not pass without me recalling it. Alas, with cause.
It posited that that certain irrational sects, not all of them religious, prize drama above reason. When the Leader sins, and is discovered, a gaudy public atonement will result in forgiveness, lavished bestowed.
It's the vicarious thrill of someone else giving into the sinful urges that you are afraid to act upon, and then, by forgiving them, forgiving yourself for your urges and your cowardice. It also allows you to assert moral superiority over your spiritual superior.
Likewise, it never hurts a ministry to have a reformed gaudy sinner-turned-saint as its public face. Franklin Graham is the most prominent example, and he wouldn't be the first to pass off a few pills and a chopper as Tiberian debauchery. All the better to be forgiven.
6
Actually, hard to share a thought concerning this, as it is so despicable. My message to my nieces has always been. If you have been a victim at a university, a church, or camp, or the like. Do not go to the university officials, or the church elders, or the people who run the camp. Call your parents and go right to the police !!! Parents, instruct your children in this matter. Get tough and get your kids tough.
If the members of this church truly believe in the Lord. They should know what is in store for this minister at the end of time !!!
8
The political right-wing fundamentalist churches lost any resemblance to Christianity a long time ago.
9
So painful to watch and see how the male patriarchy, as was the case with pedophile priests in the Catholic Church, continue to protect their own. I cannot forgive any religion that tolerates what Mr. Savage did and allows him to be a pastor. It's the absolute height of hypocrisy that has brought us to this moment where evangelicals embrace Roy Moore and give a "mulligan" to Donald Trump for his extramarital affair with a porn actress. It's an outrage that adults males still don't get the damage they're inflicting on young, vulnerable women like Ms. Woodson. And, these are males who pretend to speak for Christ. It's blasphemy! Mr. Savage should be punished, not forgiven. He's a self-confessed pedophile and is a stain on all that religion should stand for that he is allowed and even "applauded" for the truly mortal sin he committed.
2
Fortunately for the religious, they don't believe in truth in packaging, or the so-called church would be renamed The LOWPOINT Church. Perhaps they really believe that God will be as forgiving as they are for their sins, but that would mean God is no better than them. It used to be called blasphemy.
2
Whenever I meet someone who feels the need to tell me they're a "christian" (usually comes up within one minute) my opinion of them immediately goes to zero and I find a way to get myself away from them. If there ever was a hypocritical, vile group of people it's the evangelicals.
3
I consider myself a "Christian" but I would never tell someone else that. It is my personal business with my God. In my experience people who flaunt their religion are using it either to make themselves seem bore reliable or are trying to convert someone else. Of course, their version of "Christianity" is the only "true religion. "
2
Nope, not a "sexual incident". It was an incident of power, control and violence, otherwise known as rape.
5
There was no violence. You need to read her story.
4
I did. You need to read about the nature of rape.
3
How does Highpoint Church handle abuse accusation today? Any example?
1
“It was consensual.” The last refuge of every molester.
9
The statute of limitations having expired, the aptly named Mr Savage is free to claim God's forgiveness for having sexually assaulted a young woman in his congregation. The white evangelical movement is dying from its own putrid hypocrisy, as noted by a recent report that black Christians are leaving white churches by significant numbers. Mr Savage has committed a criminal act, but the statute of limitations having expired, he claims God has forgiven him--the highest judge of them all, according to Evangelicals--so he is absolved. So much for the separation of church and state in America.
The courage of Jules is extraordinary, and she should be blessed by the church for coming forward and telling us the truth, and displaying the pain this has caused her. There is nothing to admire about Savage and everything to admire about her.
5
I am neither amazed nor surprised. I have come to accept this behavior as Christian norm in the 21st century. Today's Christianity is all about pastors making beaucoup bucks and supporting exclusionary practices and supporting bigotry, all in the name of religious freedom. Christianity in the US today bears no resemblance whatsoever to the doctrine preached and practiced by the Jewish man known as Jesus Christ. His religion? Easy. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, take care of the less fortunate like widows, orphans and the handicapped, and visit the prisoners.
9
It's so easy to be saved. All an Evangelical must do is accept Christ as his savior and everything else falls magically into place: theft, sexual assault, duplicity, etc.
8
My reaction to the words "I'm sorry" is "no, you are not, or you wouldn't have done it in the first place".
4
Milton said it well nearly 400 years ago:
Blind mouths! that scarce themselves know how to hold
A sheep-hook, or have learn'd aught else the least
That to the faithful herdman's art belongs!
What recks it them? What need they? They are sped;
And when they list their lean and flashy songs
Grate on their scrannel pipes of wretched straw,
The hungry sheep look up, and are not fed,
But, swoll'n with wind and the rank mist they draw,
Rot inwardly, and foul contagion spread[.]
4
Religion - what a horrible joke on mankind. I'm absolutely surprised the whole country isn't atheist given the track records of our religions.
6
Sexual assault can never be tolerated or condoned. If there is any proof of such allegations, the perp should be prosecuted and jailed.
3
So how is this church not a criminal organization? Any church that does not make reparations, dismiss the pastor or those who knew and failed to act, and investigate other similar actions should lose that coveted tax free status. If only.
6
Not to make all things about our current President, but the extension of this idea of evangelical "forgiveness" is how they can justify voting for Trump.
And of course, as in most religious orders, women don't count as much as men, especially men in positions of authority.
5
Because it does a few good things and then shouts about it, people keep seeing the church as a force for good rather than a social organization based on the advancement of it's members and adherents and the shaming of outsiders.
They create a need, to be "saved" and then provide a solution.
3
Under the Trump doctrine, all Savage has to do is deny it "strongly" and the matter is closed in the abuser's favor. If you want change, it needs to change at the top.
4
She makes a great point. Hollywood gets this right but the church doesn't.
5
I used to think that issues like this occurred because of the conservative political climate that many evangelical churches operate in. And I still believe that this is a contributing factor.
But I've now come to the conclusion that the real problem is theological. Biblical scripture has been interpreted to start with the fall from grace and thus the natural state of sin for man. Then the embracement of Christ as savior and example to mankind that taking Christ to heart is the only path the absolving one of this of this state of sin and preparing one for ascendancy to heaven. One must believe this or one is lost.
But this has resulted in the cyclical pattern of confessing, seeking forgiveness and absolution through Bible study and then going forth, fortified by God's love.
But here the "sin" was a crime. It wasn't a "sexual incident" it was a sexual assault. What about restitution?
The same has occurred with televangelists who were caught using prostituted women, taking drugs and even stealing from their church. Only in the most extreme cases have these "sins" been prosecuted. Instead they are allowed to re-enact this fall from grace and recommitment to piety.
There's nothing in Biblical scripture that requires this interpretation. This is bad theology but very convenient politics.
5
First, it is not up to congregation to decided the forgiveness for any sin of any kind nor is it up to the Hierarchy of any religious organization. If the sin involves harming another person in anyway then it is a crime and should be reported to the proper legal authorities so that legal system can begin to do what it has been set into place to do.
Men getting up on a stage and 'confessing' their sexual indulgences should be refused by the public. In no way does any person's public 'confession' excuse what they are confessing to. If it is not to the person or persons involved and made with restitution within the apology then it's never intended to be anything other than to save their social standing and add polish to their reputation for adding humility which will remain false. This is a false church that arranges such a thing as this video shows. God is not their intent. That church is a business and it is seeking to salvage its income; nothing else.
7
Re the online comments shown at the end of the video: people either do not get or chose to ignore the power dynamic which comes into play with abuse (sexual or otherwise). Sexual harassment, abuse, and rape are all to some extent about power, not about sex.
14
Having traveled the world and lived in the US, I continue to find American evangelicals amongst the creepiest beings I have encountered. Their hypocrisy and sanctimony know no bounds, as evidenced by this story. Not to mention their unbending support for the most immoral western leader the world has known. Shame on them.
51
by any reasonable interpretation of US law, not only should Savage be serving a long prison term for rape...all his church staff should be in prison as co-conspirators...Savage is a savage and should be treated as such
8
Whenever I hear that humble and sanctimonious tone, I turn tail and run away. It always croons in service of a lie.
26
An expert manipulator and a malleable congregation.
14
How interesting that he apologizes to the congregation, but not to the woman he molested.
31
If Evangelicals have no problems with the president's behavior, why should they behave any differently. It's a religion that does not respect women except as appendages to men.
15
Any religion that applauds a rapist is sick. What on Earth do these people see as a motivation to applaud this type of behavior?
12
Everything that is wrong in this world can be traced back to religion.
4
And much that is right. Who expects any human construct to be perfect? The faith is in the trying; despite the failures.
4
You can just imagine the behind-the-scenes conversation at this "church," can't you. "Hey, I know, fellas: let's address it head-on and present it as a perfect example of myself as redeemed sinner. Yeah, the congregation will lap it up, and we'll have totally pulled the rug out from under Woodson!" Then cue the back-slapping, fat cigar-puffing, and a whooping rendition of "Glory, Glory Hallelujah," banging the collection plates together for percussive effect.
Hey, if the people of Memphis are dumb enough to buy this garbage as "religion," so be it. They say there's a sucker born every minute, don't they, and apparently they all congregate in "churches" like this.
Meanwhile, doubtless Mr. Savage will be "repenting" all the way to the bank.
13
Just another member of the christian moral majority showing his true colours. They are reprehensible, amoral people, typical of the blameless right wing hypocrisy industry.
10
What a good "Christian" man. Apparently he has never read the 10 Commandments.
All the man has to do is make an altar call and all of his sins are forgiven. Oh and do it again (probably) and make another alter call and all is forgiven again.
Sick.
10
Why do you think they refer to them as their "sheep."
16
Any one of Savage's facial expressions could serve as the dictionary illustration of "smarmy."
Paging Sinclair Lewis ...
19
Look up man and face the camera, instead of half mumbling with your head down reading from a script! Let's see that evangelical zeal in your mea culpa that makes the coffers overflow each Sunday, and probably got you your job! Speaking of overflowing coffers, how about a civil suit?
9
Evangelical "Church" services are all performance art. It is a spectacle, not a sincere religious service.
3
Jules Woodson is the courageous one here. Andy Savage is a coward who is compounding his original crime.
25
One more evangelical hypocrite. Do as I say, not as I do. It's fine to violate women as long as you're clutching a bible while you do it. They tell the rest of us how to behave in the privacy of our own homes, but when they commit crimes they hide behind the bible like it's a free pass. Just say "I'm sorry" and move on. No damage done, praise the Lord!
And these are the same clowns who excuse Trump's sexual misconduct while damning others, like Bill Clinton. For them sexual assault isn't black or white; it's red or blue.
25
I am absolutely outraged by what I just saw. It represents the utmost hypocrisy of organized religions. What this woman had to endure (who cares if it was 20 or 50 years ago) is absolutely inexcusable. The fact that this pedophile got a pass from his church shows what despicable people they are. She is absolutely right to be beyond outraged by church s reaction and handling of it. And it was their place to forgive him. It was her and her only, if she chose to. And now the fact that she’s being harassed (yes 20 years later) by this pedophile s followers just show how morally and humanly corrupt and deficient these people are. Down with all organized religions! This is just a human construct. And it is an insult to G.
131
I meant it was NOT the church’s place to forgive this pedophile.
3
Stuff like this is why I quit going to church a long time ago.
FAKE RELIGION.
12
The ones who clapped?
Trump voters.
Assault women? No problem.
Hypocritical? Racist? Misogynistic?
No problem.
Throw in the word "God" here and there when clearly you are no Christian?
No problem.
This whole thing makes me sick.
One note - The New York Times should have added in the rest of what happened to Jules. It wasn't just one request on a dark road. There was more that happened that night.
16
Do these evangelical so-called "Christians" recall this warning ?
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones,
12
Good Lord, Christians can explain away any sin with a simple public apology.......now I see the benefit of religion......no consequences for the faithful!
9
These terribly shallow, sell-righteous, sanctimonious evil people and those in denial who support them can count their days numbered. They are a dying breed. Good riddance.
7
What would Jesus do?
6
Why is Savage 'apologizing' to some congregation?
When is the trial for rape going to commence?
When are guys in the church hierarchy going to be sued?
Savage is a coward (and yes, I'm passing judgement).
As far as I can see, NO consequences fitting the crime happened.
As far as I can see, everyone in the congregation are a bunch of hypocrites, and worse, a bunch of chumps.
6
What does this history and set of videos say about religion and for that matter, humans. If a man can get away with sex (pastor with a congregant/priest with a young boy), he will. Religion facilitates satisfaction of his carnal desires.
1
All details published previously on this lead to a conclusion that it was a consensual encounter, albeit not appropriate due to Mr. Savage being a youth pastor. I find it appalling that The Times did not attempt to contact Mr. Savage for comment prior to publication of this.
2
It is never "consensual" when one party is someone with power over the other person. Pastors and priests who are pedophiles and rapists know that.
4
The one they call Jesus will judge these so called Christians very harshly.
6
Once again evangelicals are proven to be cynical hypocrites
5
Unless you plead guilty and submit to the sentence of the court, you haven’t accepted responsibility for a crime.
“I’ve never wanted to minimize anything … about what’s taken place.” The phrase “about what’s taken place” is vague, abstract & passive, carefully avoiding any reference to the fact that one person acted & another person was acted upon. It avoids mentioning the actor made a *choice.* It avoids any concrete details about the nature of the act as a sexual crime against a minor. It wasn’t just some random occurrence that “took place.” HE chose to abuse his power & position of trust to coerce a minor congregation member into fellating him.
He then proceeds to repeatedly minimize his crime.
- "As a college student" = "I was young, too."
-"More than 20 years ago" = willful blindness to the well-established evidence that childhood sexual assault inflicts lifelong trauma on most victims.
-"I regretfully had a sexual incident..." He didn't "have a sexual incident" (tortured locution). He coerced a minor into fellating him.
-"...with a female high school senior." This minimizes the fact she was a minor.
-"I apologized and sought forgiveness from her, her parents, her discipleship group, the church staff & the church leadership." As if he’d gotten drunk at a church barbecue and regaled everyone with secrets of the confessional.
-"This incident was dealt with in Texas 20 years ago." A crime isn't "dealt with" unless there's a conviction and sentence.
10
I have no sympathy for evangelical pastors-- who seem to have surrendered all principle and decency in order to support Donald Trump-- but I'm rather disappointed by the relentless hatred here for Savage. Too many readers seem eager to speculate, without the slightest evidence, that Savage must have done more, worse things, than we know about. Unlike almost all of the other #metoo culprits he actually did apologize immediately afterwards, and confessed to his immediate superiors, and accepted disciplinary actions. Perhaps it was not enough-- by today's standards-- but it surely was not nothing. Ms. Woodson acts as if he has never been held to account for it-- carefully framing the issue to circumvent that question by suggesting that the fact that he didn't suffer worse consequences at the time justifies her desire to destroy his career now. The world is full of all kinds of mean and abusive and cruel acts by people who are never punished for them, but we seem hell-bent on inflicting as much suffering as possible on those whose offenses are sexual. It's not an either/or issue: proportionality matters. The attacks on Ms. Woodson are reprehensible, but it should be acknowledged that any argument in defense of proportionality in the consequences for Mr. Savage also risks harsh blow-back.
4
A pastor coerced a teen into oral sex. He gets away with a self-serving apology, the sympathy of his church, and no jail time/sex offender registration. She gets traumatized, shamed by those who should support her, ostracized, her faith shattered—and death threats. Yeah, proprtionality matters—and Savage got away with murder here.
6
All of the terrible things that happened to Ms. Woodson that you list here are actions by the congregations, not Mr. Savage. I totally agree that their actions are hypocritical and despicable. But under other circumstances, we would decry the fact that he never even apologized or bore any consequences. Here, we know he did apologize, and he did bear consequences-- so it seems we have moved the bar, or we just want to take another run at him. He never kept it a secret. It is unfair to revisit the issue twenty years later.
3
Hey they support Trump. Why would anyone be surprised here? The surprise is that the evangelicals were actually able to lower the bar on their blatant hypocrisy and tribal loyalty. They are truly damned.
5
I imagine it goes something like this.
Church pastor, official, minister, priest, does something reprehensible to a church member, often a child, usually of a sexual nature.
The church member, child, is devastated, they experience a shift in their reality towards the dark side of human nature. A part of their world, in which they felt safe, has changed forever.
They wonder what they could have done and often blame themselves.
The church pastor, minister, priest, official, centered in their ideology, feels some pangs of guilt, maybe, gets in contact with their god, and receives redemption, rebirth, absolution.
They are forgiven, cleansed, re-born. Possibly multiple times.
It's usually the victim who feels soiled, used. Sometimes for years, even decades.
The appropriately named Mr. Savage is an example of the worst that religious enterprises have to offer.
No parent should believe that anyone who thinks they have a relationship with an invisible entity, a god, is necessarily safe enough, or sane enough, to leave their children with.
Any parents who feel the need to indoctrinate their children into the same religion they belong to should look at the news and think long and hard about breaking the chain of blind ideology.
9
How can a process of being beyond the "statuate of limitations," a legal concept, for violating a powerless fellow human being, fit in with the relatively recent criminal justice concept, and process, of restorative justice, when only words are offered as a balm for traumatizing deeds? "I apologize," which leaves the decision-making power with the apologizer, is nowhere close to "will you please forgive me," and then waiting for the violated person to make their decision.Menschlich values, norms, and ummenschlich behaviors do not have a "statuate of limitations." Forgiving, or choosing not to do so, is not time bound. Just as traumas are not.
3
I don't know if Savage's remorse is sincere, as some readers here are putting to the question. However, I am curious to know what would be the reaction if Woodson had gone to the congregation and told them she was assaulted by the pastor.
44
@Federico---------------------------I have been through something like this as a young girl. The congregation would have asked her what she had done to sexually arouse the pastor, implying that she was a Jezebel. No one would have defended her because she was worthless, whereas the pastor had great worth to the congregation. To have found fault with him would have shaken the foundations of their religious beliefs.
8
Catholic Church doesn’t have a monopoly on men protecting other men. Even more disturbing is women applauding away sexual violence against a child. When institutional reputation out ranks personal accountability, evil and horror find an opening.
116
The horrible part is that in most churches the women will also protect the man and condemn the victim.
4
When everyone clapped I was disgusted. How disconnected these people are. They worship their male leaders. There are so many narcissists leading churches that know how to con.
3
Even though the law says this is too far in the past to take action, that doesn't absolve the rest of us from taking ethical action or judgment. I get Savage is sorry, but he's sorry for himself, not for her, so he has little claim on redemption. His "confession" was not sincere; it was simply a response to Woodsen's report of the "incident", necessary to keep his job. Savage sounds as morally weak today as he was 20 years ago, certainly with no claim on moral leadership. The church elders, who covered up the crime at the time, are completely complicit as their attitude of silence enables an environment in which men can serially exert power through compelling sexual compliance. Finally, what's with these churches who say they are trying to be Christian and good people, yet turn a blind eye to bad actions by their own? I'd ask each of these churchgoers to imagine their teenage daughter or niece or sister in Ms. Woodsen's shoes, and reconsider their applause for Savage.
4
Thank you, Jules. I feel a huge amount of rage for what Andy Savage did to you, for how his church has protected him at your expense and for the abuse you are suffering now for speaking out. I applaud your courage.
6
This is emblematic of what is wrong with the entire evangelical movement currently. Any sin is forgivable if the sinner can serve the larger goal of restricting a woman's right to chose and block same sex marriage. Their primary champion of course is our amoral president. With Kennedy talking about retiring and Ginsberg aging, they have an opportunity to stack the Supreme Court with another couple of Roger Taney types that will overthrow Roe vs Wade. The ends justify the sins. And, of course, they can always go to super church on Sunday, put their hands the in air, accept Jesus and guarantee their seat in heaven.
4
No other generation of women or children has gone to the extremes of many of women who have , in recent months and years, decided that issues and "assaults"-whatever that may be, of 20 to 50 years in the past are now ripe for vengeance .Such charges can't be legally ajudicated, laws limiting the time for making complaints recognize the fugitive nature of time and change in the human universe. It is also a citizens responsibility to report crimes immediately after they occur-not in the next generation. Otherwise, we would be living in the dark ages where blood vengeance was the rule-weltgeld then,(payment in money to satisy bood vengeance and murder), would be the highest law.
In the tidal wave of 'metoo' demands for recogntion, mistakes and free riders jump on the bandwagon, accusing strangers of crimes that have not yet occurred. Rape it seems is everywhere, suddenly.
All of these ladies need to recall, at least, the McMartin school disaster, the horror of the imprisoning-and re-accusation of Gary Dotson for a rape he hadn't committed-the fury of "good women" against the retraction of the charge:Dotson was the first man finally absolved by DNA evidence.
Also Recall thousands of black-Hispanic or foreign men hanged on fake rape charges-all had first person evidence from "victims" and the issue comes intom focus. This is a mass movment-and no one wants to left out-just like the Children's Crusade.
2
Well that is Christian justice for you. Next they will be getting away with murder, not just sexual assault.
The fact that Ms. Woodson reported this when she was 17 years old, should have been enough for the Texas police to bring charges against Savage.
The Clergy law should not be subject to the Statue of Limitations.
3
It’s time to tax “religious” organizations.
We should be brimming with disgust and anger at the Church.
Doesn’t seminary teach “Thou shall not molest children?”
This pastor should be pilloried not adored.
Supplicants vs. idols, be they pastors, priests, rabbis, imams or presidents.
Those with power, all too often, are monsters even in the light of day.
1
The main issue is that Andy Savage can not admit that he raped a 17 year old girl. He considers this an incident. An incident is like spilling coffee on someone. I do not believe God will forgive him until he asks for forgiveness for raping a 17 year old girl not a simple incident as Andy describes the rape. Another GREAT Christian.
6
It's called ''Identification with the Aggressor'' and explains every screwed up thing in America,
4
Savage? I can only say: Nomen est omen. How fantastic that we had the Romans.
2
While this story is certainly newsworthy for the efforts of Ms. Woodson to confront a man who breached a very high trust threshold to violate a young woman (what IS a "sexual incident" anyway?), it is not remarkable. This was a "damage control" apology, made for public relations purposes. This country's evangelicals respond almost robotically to certain buzz words. If a penitent hits the right phrases, he's home free. Substance in these churches has been replaced by a formulaic approach to "redemption" that is more about sounding good than actually being good. And what adds to the problem is the incredibly competitive nature of mega churches. Each is vying for enough exposure to get to the big time like the superstar televangelists. That's where the big bucks are. These aren't churches. They are businesses and they tend to do what any corporation with a lot of goodwill and a carefully cultivated market. They simply do what they must to keep a tight a lid on illicit behavior among the clergy (a great number of whom have no pertinent credentials and are not sufficiently vetted), if exposed, then spin it the best way possible and make sure the trademark isn't so soiled that it loses market share.
27
It is hard to imagine the first church allowing Savage to leave on good terms. But he did. It is hard to imagine a second or subsequent church hiring him. But they did. It is hard to imagine a congregation giving this man a standing ovation for merely confessing this sin against a woman. But one did.
Evangelicals have lost their way. There is no denying it. They obsess on the personal behavior of others but have forgotten the bigger message of Christ. And that is that we are here to lift each other up. Especially the wounded.
It is time for the entire evangelical movement to repent, and not just Andy Savage.
40
Since we're all judging the fates of these strangers and the man can no longer be prosecuted, what does the woman, or the Times, recommend be done now? The disconnect is that the man was applauded for coming clean. Nor do we know if he ever attempted to contact her personally to apologize. But had he done that, would that have satisfied her, in the sense of righting a wrong, achieving some justice? If he'd been prosecuted and convicted, he'd have been in and out of prison long ago. How much time would an all-woman jury have given him? Would that have allowed her closure? What would be justice at this point? Yes, the act has obviously affected her enormously, but what do we do now, other than humiliating them both before the world?
There are many past sexual crimes that we’re hearing about. They are sure to make a profound difference in gender relations from now on. But this one leaves me a little cold. Terrible things happened to me when I was young that others expect me to grow up and get over. I’ve done things to others that matter to them but not so much to me.
Recently, an Australian 60 Minutes reporter gushed at the new prime minister of New Zealand and asked when she’d conceived her fetus? I’ll bet he never works again. But nine years ago in this paper, a woman wrote an OpEd gushing at the thought of making love to President Obama and everyone thought that was sweet. Where are we going?
5
Please disregard this comment. I overlooked a crucial piece of information, that she HAD written to him and he hadn't replied. WaPo allows you to edit your comments for a few minutes after sending. The Times could do the same.
3
I'm going to get hammered for this, but here goes.
Yes, this is yet another contemptible example of a male lurking behind religious authority to take advantage of a young person, protected by that age-old shroud of "holiness", then false humility to ask for "forgiveness". It turns one's stomach. Sure, he was young, too, at the time, and may be a different person today, but he still should be thoroughly investigated. He may have developed a pattern of abusive behavior, having learned at an early age that he could get away with it, thus continuing his predatory behavior to this day.
But I must also ask, are 17-year-old girls really that naive? Twenty years ago it was 1998, not the 1950's naiveté of Mayberry RFD. Awareness of sexuality, sex, sexual predators and prey was pretty widespread. I, too, was raised in a very religious, Catholic family, yet we were aware of the many forms charlatans take in the world, secular or otherwise.
But there's something off key about Ms. Woodson's depiction of her complete victimization. That's a pretty implausible leap between thinking your "ride" passed your house because you were going for TCBY to giving a blow job when asked to.
I applaud Ms. Woodson's courage to expose a man who may be guilty of decades of sexual assault. But I also hope that women can be taken seriously and given respect when they expose sexual predators without having to pretend extreme degrees of naiveté.
2
So, it’s her fault for not being as worldly as folks like yourself? Girls raised in evangelical churches are literally brainwashed into putting their faith in all authority figures. They are not taught agency or that people inside their bubble can be evil. And they are taught men sexually sin only if the girls fail to be pure enough. What you apparently don’t know about this culture is a lot.
2
This is a good example of what Bari Weiss described as "the narcissism of small differences" and the platitudes used to defend it. My comments do not imply that "it's her fault". I'm making the case that women shouldn't have to depict themselves as incredibly innocent or naive in order to bring a predator to justice. I understand your point, religious extremism such as evangelicalism is a type of brain washing that could, conceivably, produce an extreme ignorance of human nature under certain circumstances (which were not included in this article). My point is that the severity of his crime isn't about the victim's level of innocence or "goodness".
3
"We as a church, of all places, should be getting this right. It is unfathomable to me that Hollywood is taking a stand and the church is not." Jules Woodson.
Simple assertions of truth are infinitely more powerful than an avalanche of propaganda from hypocrites claiming to be doing God's work -- and those who applaud them. Thank you Jules for your courage.
20
Savage is a coward and a sexual criminal even if he hasn't been charged and convicted. He's admitted as much. Don't applaud him. He has not been forgiven by his victim. He has not met his justice. There should be no mercy until he has been held completely accountable. Not until he has faced his victim and told the truth about what happened and faces the truth of his crime.
7
Sexual abusers are generally serial offenders. And they almost always deny their offenses until cornered. I believe that it is unwise to tie your redemption to a hope or expectation that the offender will admit his offense because it is so unlikely to happen, unless the matter is brought to court. Your redemption generally has to come within. Once an offender, always an offender.
5
Why not eliminate the statute of limitations on sex-crimes. There are no reasons for limitations. Treat them like cold cases
5
Was that sentimental music playing in the background during the "apology" something that the videographers inserted, or was it set up to play during the actual church event? If it was part of the church event, then that makes the Highpoint "apology" even more offensive. They seem to have pulled out all the stops to soften the impact of the so-called penitence. I am a lifelong Christian, but I find this woman-hating patriarchal form of evangelicalism abhorrent.
3
Its really sad when people expect justice and remorse from a church and "holey men" and they are so devastated and marked when none appears. Make no mistake, Andy Savage is just another Harvey Weinstein expect he is under cover. Make no mistake this church, many churches, are just a business and will do anything to protect their brand and protect their cash. If they can give a pass to people like Trump, close their eyes to his bigotry and anti biblical behavior what can you expect from them. I feel very sorry for Jules however never forget church is just like any other business.
8
The wrong person was in the pulpit that day, speaking about the past events. That congregation should have been listening to the victim give witness to their pastor's sexual violence.
151
...and the wrong people were asked for forgiveness. Not the congregation but the victim.
3
Is not forgiveness, 77 times 7, the loop hole among Christian's that allows escape from personal responsibility that has been applauded?
I am sorry that I, that we as a society, have to confront what happened between those two young people twenty years ago. We have far more important matters to think about than the actions of a socially inept young man of twenty-two and a confused young lady of seventeen. The stupidities of youth are just that. That is precisely why we have statutes of limitations. They represent an expression of human compassion, and the understanding that a man can evolve and become someone else, can re-invent himself authentically, can learn from his mistakes.
I am not sorry for Mr. Savage. He has all along owned up to his mistake. And I feel sorry for Ms. Woodson. She is not only the victim of her own foolishness twenty years ago, but also the victim of a culture of blame and revenge, the culture that we have become. May she find the strength to take responsibility for her own actions, and free herself from her burden.
7
It's difficult to form an opinion here when the article doesn't explain what is meant by sexual assault. It used to mean an act of sex that involved force. Now the definition has been broadened so wide that it's almost meaningless.
8
My heart goes out to Jules Woodson. Thank you for speaking out.
3
Regarding the standing ovation from the crowd: Jesus Wept.
Shame on you all.
6
Some people have asked why she didn't come forth and report this at the time. One reason might be that it's hard to admit you've had a sexual encounter in an environment where doing so, as a girl, would get you labeled as damaged and someone that no "decent" man will ever love or marry.
It's hard for someone to believe how deep the sexual shame is rooted in these churches. Ironically, he seems to have been as deeply ashamed of his sexuality as she was.
5
Gotta love a confession and lugubrious request for forgiveness that repeatedly refers to the crime as an "incident" or "what's taken place," repeatedly emphasizes that it occurred "more than 20 years ago," inserts that the perpetrator was "a young college student" and the minor victim was "a high school senior," while omitting the position of power and trust the perpetrator held in relation to the victim.
Pure humbug, from start to finish.
6
Jules, thank you for having the courage to speak out. You are preventing future harm from being done by pointing out the corrupt and cynical institutions that defend this sick man. Please know that we stand with you!
5
Thank you for speaking your truth Jules.This man is a criminal and he will get his, one way or another.
2
My grandfather molested me when I was thirteen. He put a hand on my breast, said said "You have a mouth like a bow," and tried to kiss me. I was able to pull away and immediately left the apartment we both shared with my father and step-mother (who were at work at the time) and I went to my mother's apartment. When I told my parents and a cousin what had happened, these were their reactions: My mother, "What did you do? You must have done something to make him do that." My cousin: "Oh, it happens all the time. Old Uncle Stash comes and cops a feel." My father: "I'm not going to mention it to him because it would upset him."
11
I hope all have read Ms Woodson's account of the incident.
Presuming so, one might ask that had she and Mr. Savage been "merely" a 17 year old and a 22 year old, would that make a difference in one's reaction? What if they were in the vehicle at the original church? What about the fact, as mentioned, that she had no vehicle to leave, yet stayed until no one was left but her and Mr. Savage, which considered in concert to Ms. Woodson's statement that during fellatio, she thought that Mr. Savage must lover her to have asked her to do such a thing.
Towards the end of her telling, Ms. Woodson states, " I had just been manipulated and used." What if they had continued, or even just stopped, perhaps Mr. Savage saying, "wow, this is wrong; I am sorry" but added in "but I love you" or something that expressed affection?
Would Ms. Woodson's reaction then been different?
I only mention all this to point out that there are various ways to interpret actions, words, lack of words, and so forth. The incident, as described by Ms. Woodson, is not clear beyond her final reaction to the original incident, and that, as I indicate, seems based upon a negative reaction rather than a more positive one.
Certainly, assault does not rest upon whether one is pleased or displeased with how a situation ends, does it? Yet, one can read Ms. Woodson's very own words as suggesting just that.
It is unclear, and fairly wrong of any of us to condemn without a doubt.
5
The speech that Mr Savage read with multiple apologies for an 'incident' was just a circus side show. I wonder how it would have played if he was shackled in a courtroom in front of a judge and jury, and with a prosecutor describing in detail what he did.
The only applause would have been from a courtroom full of people who had just heard the finding of 'guilty'.
5
The biggest reason for atheists? Christians. As I Christian, I see the need for a right to life, but I also see the same groups not spending near as much or making the same media splash to help those children once they are born. Forgiveness, which was a significant moment at the end of my Savior's human life, seems to be a bit arbitrary among some believers. We condescend/condemn/castigate and OH YES, criticize without holding ourselves to the most fundamental of Christ's teaching: to love thy neighbor as thyself. Our churches get bigger, but our hearts keep shrinking. The richest nation in the world is also one of it's poorer stewards as well. Perversity is a human flaw; the Bible is rife with it. But somehow God has been relegated to a prop for a multimedia farce in which the the least of these, Ms. Woodson, was treated as such while the "greater" of these Mr. Savage (some puns just write themselves) got the prodigal son's welcome.
Casting Crowns said it better than me:
People aren't confused by the gospel
They're confused by us
Jesus is the only way to god
But we are not the only way to Jesus
This world doesn't need my tie, my hoodie
My denomination or my translation of the bible
They just need Jesus
We can be passionate about what we believe
But we can't strap ourselves to the gospel
'Cause we're slowing it down
Jesus is going to save the world
But maybe the best thing we can do
Is just get out of the way.
Our Savior IS watching.
Mr. Savage. Saying that you are sorry is not what the Jesus myth asks of you, and you know it. Jesus does, however, offer a way for you. When the rich man asks how to get to heaven, in the book of Matthew, Jesus responds: "give your stuff to the poor. All of it." (Jesus then tells a delightful Greek pun, "it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to get to heaven.) Your myths say you can be saved. You haven't even begun the process, however.
1
This is why I have no religion. Sects like these are the worst examples of humanity.
22
It might be too late for jail time, but it's not too late for Savage and his congregation to pony up some money, a form of penance.
16
Of course, this was sexual assault. Ms. Woodson was 17. Mr. Savage as a pastor was in a position of power. Savage's statement at the Memphis church where he is now a pastor was self-centered and dishonest. He is an unrepentant sexual predator. The Highpoint Church ignored the wellbeing of the victim and withdrew the video. Savage and his church are exemplary Christians.
22
Get the facts straight. He wasn't a Pastor, he was a youth minister, aged 22. He was not 'in a position of power'.
8
He asked his congregation for forgiveness, and they gave it in an instant because they never blamed him in the first place. Not for a second. Evangelicals never blame the man. Not for adultery. Not for rape. Not for child sexual abuse. Not for anything. It’s always the woman’s fault. 100%. It’s why Evangelicals warn girls so much about not tempting men to sin with immodest dress. It’s why they compare a woman who’s had sex (or been raped) to a chewed piece of gum - she’s soiled, tainted, ruined, and of course, blameworthy. It’s why they demand we outlaw all birth control but also leave single mothers to starve and suffer - an unowned woman who’s had sex is a sinner and must suffer without forgiveness or reprieve.
They harp on so much about sin (not so much their own), that if you don’t know them well, you could be forgiven for thinking that Evangelicals worry about right and wrong. They don’t. Evangelicals are authoritarians, through and through. They don’t have a moral code. They have a hierarchy.
93
A low point for Highpoint. Shameful but typical of this type of church culture. It must stop. Now.
29
And they are tax exempt, too--when is that going to end?
3
This was deeply disturbing. My heart aches for Jules. I am disgusted with the applause of those who profess to follow Jesus. Shame, shame, shame. It is why I no longer call myself a Christian. The pastor is a criminal, but let off his crimes by the church for publicity.
29
Good for you. I now call myself - "a sort of Christian."
2
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."
Uh, no standing ovation from Jesus, apparently.
33
I read the whole article plus the blog"she told her story " and listened to the video re Mr. Savage's apology. I found both of them to be sincere and believable and my heart went out to each of them.
I remember being 17 with all the innocence and naïveté that age involves. No doubt it was a frightening experience for Jules
But Mr. Savage was only 22 at the time, also young and inexperienced.
There is no indication in this article that Mr. Savage went on to be a serial sex offender. Nor is the original offense rape. It caused both parties a lot of pain.
One of the key premises in all religions is forgiveness. This man has acknowledged what he did and to my mind sincerely asked for forgiveness . It's time to let it rest.
I know the #metoo era has encouraged a lot of women to speak out about sexual offenses that are 20 years old or more. Personally I take issue with that. Not every offense warrants obsessing about for years and this one is a good example. If all of us had to account for sins we committed when we were young, whether sexual or not, all of us would be guilty.
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
Mahatma Gandhi.
It's one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself, to forgive. Forgive everybody.
Maya Angelou. ( Maya Angelou was raped at the age of 8 by her mother's boyfriend.)
Anger begets more anger, and forgiveness and love lead to more forgiveness and love.
Mahavira.
56
Gwen
"Not every offense warrants obsessing about for years..."
Although for a short period, this woman was kidnapped and forced to perform sexual acts the likes of which motivated gleeful conservatives to crucify Bill Clinton.
She sought support from a minster whose only response was "So you're saying you participated?" Basically, "Be quiet, little girl, no harm no foul".
And that's just the sex apart. This is a girl who lost her church, some part of her faith, her sense of security and community, and was told to shut up get over it.
I don't imagine for one second you would be so cavalier should this befall your daughter or yourself.
I'd really like to see the list of crimes you would forgive if the perpetrator tried to hide until he was confronted publicly with the truth, still hides the nature of his crime, and expects just saying "Gosh, that was a mistake" will get him off the hook. And I'd like you to tell me if your God would put up with such pap.
Sure, forgive the guy if you want, but make him pay.
"Render unto Caesar..."
In the meantime this fellow became a rousing Evangelical preacher, tossing fire and retribution at the sinners on the other side of his chuirch walls.
Still these people persist inthe conviction they are God's chosen executioners put on Earth to judge and to punish the sinful world around them. Amazing.
36
Come on. Savage took advantage of his position and the victim’s faith. He broke his religion’s law and let Jules be punished for it—while he got off scot-free. That’s not a youthful mistake—that’s deliberate sinning. Shouldn’t those who serve God be held to a way higher standard? Just sickening.
24
I disagree strongly with your assertion that the weak can never forgive. Forgiveness has to be earned. In this case, it wasn't. A disgraceful, stage managed show of support for the perpetrator of the offense is not an proper response from the congregation, either. The whole congregation appears more cult like than religious. Your 'church' needs a serious examination for the way in which it is teaching your faith and the way to treat your parishioners. I'd advise anyone looking for serious religious instruction and a religious community to avoid yours.
24
Elmer Gantry.
Too bad it is not mandatory reading in school
6
Many Christians separate themselves from other sects (Catholics, Mormons) by defining their relationship with God as personal, not requiring an intermediary such as a priest or bishop. But these Mega-churches dangerously reinstate the middleman creating the imbalance of power leading to abuse. Savage's ego prevents him from internalizing his crime and the dimwits who worship him are as superficial and shallow as he is.
11
Very well said.
1
It is becoming exceedingly difficult for me to retain the word Christian in my on-line nom de guerre. The Huns have overrun the walls and raped (sometimes literally) and pillaged the fortress of American Christianity. I am appalled, but I'm sure no more appalled and disgusted than Jesus by the likes of these frauds, hucksters and generally odious pretenders of the faith. In Bible Trivia we learn the shortest verse in the Bible is "Jesus wept." I sometimes wonder if it's also the most profound verse. I have a suspicion Jesus is weeping today as well as the ancient Jewish carpenter who cleared the money changers from the temple looks out at the fetid swamp of American evangelical Christianity.
19
So, according to this new terminology, murdering someone would merely become "having been involved in a death incident", robbery would become a "financial incident" and... well you all get the picture.
25
Touche.
2
There is something extremely twisted about a defensive confession...it is a confession and request for forgiveness at all? How many times did Mr. Savage repeat that the "incident" which he does not name (shouldn't he have said he asked a 17-year-old who he mentored to give him oral sex?) happened "over 20 years ago" as if that minimizes the atrocity? Shameful. And those people in the church give him a standing ovation? Unbelievable.
32
When I finished reading this article, I felt sick and deeply sad. You have just perfectly verbalized what, to me, made watching Mr Savage's confession (though it is anything but: a heartfelt confession wouldn't omit the most damning facts of the situation and use intentionally vague terminology in their place) so stomach-turning.
A defensive confession, indeed, performed purely for self-preservation. I am revolted.
2
There is really no need to further emphasize what horrendous acts Andy Savage committed (forced oral sex by a youth pastor on a young girl in his charge). What is really of concern, beyond Savage, is the lavish and fawning approval of Savage by senior ministers and the general membership, as evidenced by the standing ovation. Do these people really have no concern about the seriousness of Savage's sexual assault on Jules and her welfare? What do churches almost always take the side of the pedophile against the innocent victim?
265
Where did you get the understanding that it was "forced"? He asked; she complied. There was no force.
In the church, the woman is almost never the "innocent victim". The man is the victim of the woman's "charm, beauty, purity", etc.
5
The Christian nature of "sin" is that, without admitting to it, without the admission by humans that all our ordinary and often natural desires have a "sinful", devilish and lewd origin, then there could be no forgiveness from Jesus and/or God. Anyone who has watched or heard a Protestant or any Christian leader talk about the nature of man has heard that none of us can be "saved" without the admission of our guilty, sinful nature. It needs to be recognized that there is NO church-of any denomination- without "sin".
Ms. Woodson,
First, condolences and my empathy.
However, you should not expect anything better from a religious person.
Sexual assault did not even make it into "God"s ten worst sins list, while a man coveting another man's wife did make the top 10 list.
These two facts pretty much sum up what Judeo-Christian-Islamic men think about the value of a woman. Any woman. Including the religious man's wife and his daughters.
13
He knew exactly what he was doing, thought about and planned how to rape young girls. Boys and men do not accidentally engage in a "sexual incident", they do not accidentally unzip their pants and accidentally grab and then sexually molest or penetrate the body of a child or woman.
When will society finally deal with rapists in both a punitive and preventive way? We are already in the U.S. to the point where millions of rapists and pedophiles walk the streets of every town and city with impunity, where nearly every single one of the 170 million females in America live cradle to grave stressed and in a funk of anxiety that's 100% related to being held hostage to the high threat of sexual assault at any time of the day and anywhere, even in their own home. Why do nearly all men and so very many women give the degenerate sex perverts so much latitude and permission in our nation, when every last one of time deserves to be locked away in order to actually protect the innocent and provide some measure of justice to their victims. Equally as important, why does no one even question why men of every age, race, status and locale so despise and hold ll females in such contempt that they feel entitled to degrade them sexually and traumatize them emotionally. Even animals do not behave like that.
9
Thank you, Jules. Thank you for coming forward. Thank you for trying to change the church. Thank you for trying to change our society. Thank you for helping us understand how sexual assault actually happens... by trusted men, by men ‘of God’, by men who ‘respect women.’ I understand why so many girls and women would have said nothing at the time of the assault. But you spoke up. You were courageous then, and you are courageous now.
14
I went to a wedding Mr. Savage performed, and more than anything, he struck me as insincere, both towards the words he spoke and towards the couple, long-term members of his church. I wonder now if I was close to the truth in sensing in him something like a sense of entitlement and superiority, even though the service was unimaginative and presented marriage pretty much as a hollow set of obligations. Speculating about his inner attitudes may not be fair, but I'm trying to put forth the idea that sexual abuse involves thinking that one's immediate pleasure is worth more than the experience of the other person, and maybe it's not as compartmentalized from the rest of life as is often claimed.
14
No sin so great that it can't be absolved, even by oneself. Validation by ones congregation is icing on the cake.
2
I remember sitting at Mass several years ago when the bishop finally acknowledged that a priest had sexually abused children in the parish, sending out a letter to be read at all masses that weekend. But instead of asking for prayers for the children and their families, he just asked for prayers for priests. Not one word of compassion or support or recognition of the victims, and not surprisingly no acknowledgement of his own complicity.
27
This reminds me of a recent incident where someone acted badly towards me and then expected me to forgive and become buddies. In such situations the onus is immediately put on you. When I demurred this person actually asked me if I was a Christian; when I said no I definitely saw a sneer curl his lips. Believe me...if this woman does not "forgive" she will regarded as the sinful party and beyond the pale. This is how religion works. It's a lose-lose situation for us heathens.
8
I hope the reporter follows up on this.
The girl gymnasts abused by Dr. Nassar thought they were the only one. Mr. Savage in no way should be working around young people.
This guy hangs his head and reads to his congregation, but he does not face Ms Woodson. That is a manipulation of the actual problem here. She should sue him and the church for at least the money for therapy. And the reporter should dig into the culture of this congregation which mistook his hangdog confession as justice in this case.
21
Agreed. Given how the church treated the victim, it’s a good bet she’s not the only one.
4
Evangelicals seem to hang onto an old system--maybe even Old Testament era--of judging sexual sin and redemption, which involves forgiveness without consequences for males in authority and constant judgement for female victims.
I read the details of this sordid assault elsewhere. Sick stuff. The victim reported it, the young pastor moved on. The senior pastor to whom the victim reported asked why she didn't fight back.
Clearly, this episode needed to be referred to police and, regardless of the outcome, should have disqualified the young pastor from any kind of congregational ministry ever.
27
This is likely the tip of the iceberg. Lots more creeps where he came from.
Andy Savage thinks that with the passage of 20 years all will be forgiven. The sickos in the church applauded him.
Lets all make sure the video circulates, and circulates, and keeps circulating. So that Andy Savage will be reminded day after day after day that no one has forgotten, and that he is not forgiven.
13
Dear Ms. Woodson,
I am sorry for the assault you underwent. It enrages me that this savage man is not behind bars. However, this is exactly the kind of behavior I expect from "evangelical" leaders. Their ranks are thick with hypocrites and frauds, and so many of them have been convicted for sexual assault and financial embezzlement it is hard to keep count. It appalls me shows how backward we are a society that we permit this activity to go on, and not just go on but encourage it with tax exemptions.
9
I applaud your bravery to tell this story, Jules. You may be giving courage to another of his victims because I doubt you were his only one. And I'm sorry you are suffering abuse from his supporters but you are in the right. Don't forget that.
10
Savage exhibits the kind of false "remorse' designed to win applause, especially in a church setting. Had he been truly remorseful, he would have apologized to the victim at the start, and he would have admitted that the assault was not consensual. He would have faced the consequences, and he would have let everyone know that the seventeen-year-old was in no way to blame.
Instead his supporters bombard the victim with threats and insults, and he stands by. He could come out now and tell his congregation that he drove Ms. Woodson, without her consent, to a secluded place and then committed statutory rape. He doesn't. He's framed the narrative to his liking.
Jules, I'm sorry this happened to you. It was a crime for which he should have been punished. He doesn't appear capable of true remorse, the hallmark of a sociopath.
262
Statutory rape is defined as sexual contact with an individual who is below the age of consent.
The age of consent in Texas is 17, as it is in 7 other states, including NY.
The age of consent in CA is 18, as it is in 10 other states.
The age of consent in the other 32 states is 16.
Labeling someone a sociopath is an extreme judgement. There is no evidence in this article to support that judgment.
I think you need to get some of facts straight.
6
The Christian Right is playing its last Get Out of Jail Free cards. It's no wonder that people of sincere Christian discipline and conscience, especially the next generation, are walking away from the false witness, money-changing, self-absolving evangelicals.
20
Like Trump, he gets a "mulligan." Right? I mean...well you know. Right?
I mean, you can't get forgiveness without sin, and that means sin has to come first. And forgiveness is great and fulfilling, so this guy was just doing what he had to so that his congregation could indulge themselves in forgiving him.
And it was her fault anyway. Right?
Can anyone (anyone!) in that congregation sleep at night?
7
If God won't protect you then I guess your on your own, Why do we brainwash our youngsters with this hogwash? We should be long past the idea of a supernatural (or pastoral), protector. Freedom from religion for all I say!
5
Statutes of limitation for sexual abuse help the evil, demented abusers, not the victims. Shame on legislators for allowing limitations to exist at all.
Ask any woman who has been sexually violated. There's no statute of limitation to the horrific emotional toll it takes.
28
Oh the sanctimonious sinner.
I hope that someone in the church finds a way to shame this guy into a dark corner for the rest of his miserable life. He should be required to watch the Larry Nassar accusers on a loop until he understands his responsibility toward young women.
The church has always been one of the most dangerous places for children. Someday parents will learn not to take goodness for granted.
19
The hypocrisy. There was no sincerity in this carefully orchestrated show of an apology, but worse yet is the reaction of those in attendance applauding at his behavior. This is the reason why I have lost all my respect for churches, particularly these so called Christians. If only Jesus had been there to witness this it would be a sight to see. The hypocrisy and shame.
10
This man is despicable and should be in prison. Statutes of Limitations serve only to protect the criminal. I hope Mr. Savage's career in the church will soon end.He should not have a job in the church, let alone around young women. I admire Ms. Woodson for telling her story and hope a criminal case against this "pastor" can go forward.
6
Jules is deeply scarred by this. Savage's behavior was morally vile and repugnant.
I'm guessing that a DA would not have chosen to prosecute this case. There will always be power differences between people. The age difference is creepy, and disgusting in a church 'leader.'
My understanding is that Jesus, as a Jew, would insist Savage directly make up for the harm that he had done, not merely beg forgiveness from the Lord. But how does he make amends for his very real sin? Maybe the Lord forgave him, but what about Jules? How does she move forward in her life?
I suppose that the best we can do is continue to talk about cases like this.
3
Never trust anyone who thinks they can receive forgiveness from their imaginary friend.
It's truely disgusting.
5
The church had not prepared Jules to explode in outrage and say no in the situation she suddenly and unexpectedly found herself in. This was not an accidental omission but rather part and parcel of a patriarchic system that functions to protect men.
19
I am curious if this pastor has called out the harassment of the victim as a sin, and told them to stop it.
231
Quite right, Stephanie: to be filed under "casting the first stone."
2
He absolutely needs to do so. If he is silent on this, he condones it.
5
Of course he would not. Patriarch is the foundation of the Christian religion.
4
Once upon a time – or so I believed – America's very purpose was equality for all before the law and in our national life together. "All" was defined first as white male landowners. Later, everyone else was "given" the same rights. But nearly every story I hear, whether from court or culture, is about how some people Get Away With Everything. And other people seem never to get a fair shake.
I'd like to see universal legal representation, like universal health care, where everyone gets the same level of legal service, regardless of ability to pay for it. So even white male landowners people like Michael Flynn don't go broke trying to defend themselves, and rich people can't game the system by hiring better attorneys.
Long time ago I had a pastor who resigned after a consensual (so far as I know) affair. These days, much of evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity is simply beholden to power. Case in point.
We're not only supposed to do better – we're SUPPOSED to show other countries how it's done.
Let America Be America At Last.
6
Good for you Ms. Woodson. I wish you well. BTW: I don't see that Mr. Savage apologized directly to you. He clearly needs to follow his faith a bit closer.
It's funny. I have noticed that the passive voice is used when people don't know how or don't want to shoulder the blame. Taking responsibility for your actions is the first step. I hope that Mr. Savage takes it.
10
Christianity has this weird thing where you ask Jesus/God for forgiveness, or step into a confession booth and hear the priest tell you to say X number of Hail Mary's while not having to ask the person you harmed directly for forgiveness.
It's weird because Christianity supposedly is based on its parent religion, Judeo-Christian tradition and all that mishugas.
Judaism, on the other hand, states that God won't forgive you until you've asked the person you harmed directly for forgiveness. They're not obligated to say yes, but God won't consider your petition until you've taken that person to person step. Which one seems more humane, and practical? Forget about the fact that hypocrites abound in both, and indeed all, religions. Asking for some hypothetical absolution and redemption via some recorded video in front of parishioners who weren't involved in whatever occurred many years ago is the height of absurdity. Or what did Jesus say about folks who proudly proclaim their religious bona fides in front of an audience?
For what it's worth, I'm an atheist myself.
21
Actually what you've said isn't accurate.
Christianity does demand that you try to make amends and ask for forgiveness from the person you've wronged.
1
Here's a better script for your apology, Mr. Savage.
"Twenty-plus years ago, I sexually assaulted a young woman, and somehow escaped the legal consequences. In order to convey the seriousness of my apology to the victim and my repentence to my god, I vow to confine myself to my home leaving only for medical emergencies, for the next ten years. I will not have a phone, or an internet connection. I will have one hour a day to go outside, into my yard. I will pay to have essentials--food, for instance--delivered to me. Visitors may come to see me, one hour per week, on the front porch."
5
The women hatred in evangelical churches is stunning. I suspect the mass apology was carefully orchestrated with some tears and hand wringing and elders (men of course) looking on with faces of grief and pained. It’s so insincere as to be stomach turning. If these churches cared about women he would be out of a job and the church would stand and apologize to the victim. They would then make internal and permanent changes.
299
religious error belongs in churches if at all. NYTimes readers-including women and once young girls should know that the Western Christian religions now regognized as Catholic(universal ) church and what became the Orthodox church warred to the death-hundreds of thousands died over points of orthoxy-and little was accomplished but to initiate the dark ages in Europe. The Times was not a religious paper until today-if it sontinues thus I will end my subscription-especially after the false prediction of the last Presidential election.
I suspect the "metoo" movement is a psychological phenomenon: many women furious at themselves for NOT voting for HRC or for assuming others would elect their candidate have chosent to take out 40 year old anger and ressentment against an individual on the society at large. Russia must be having a fine old time feeding this fire!
What takes place in a church is none of my business-I cannot stop it-hence, I have no say in it's crimes and errors.
"When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers." -Proverbs 21:15
We are witnessing the opposite of justice. She is experiencing the terror of an absence of justice, and he is feeling relief from getting away with abuse.
She is so painfully justified in her disbelief that of all places, a church would allow this. Mr. Savage and the church need to be held accountable. People like this soil the potential of religion.
21
" Whoever says to the guilty, “You are innocent,”
will be cursed by peoples and denounced by nations.
But it will go well with those who convict the guilty,
and rich blessing will come on them." -Proverbs 24:24-25
Evangelicals should look to these lines when seeking the answer to the degradation of society. It's not television, music preference, sexual preference, or even money. It is the lack of both accountability and justice. It is letting the popular and the powerful get away with violating humanity.
10
It has always troubled me that absolution instead of self-improvement has long been the focus for Evangelists. When Billy Graham would say "We are all sinners," he seemed to serve as a role model for all his flock who sought to take it to heart.
And it should be troublesome when people who call themselves Christians rarely follow the teachings of Christ, instead claiming that ideals are what make liberals weak.
4
It's gross that the focus of the church on Mr Savage's redemption and forgiveness, and not on care and amends to Jules Woodson.
Publicly asking for forgiveness is not a heroic act. It's fundamentally selfish to seek absolution for a crime rather than taking real responsibility for it. This is what I find so often unseemly about the christian church. Real absolution would have been found by privately apologizing to Jules Woodson and taking the cue from her about what she needed, which would probably be for him to leave her alone and scorn the trolls harassing her.
23
"He can never be a pastor again," my pastor said of Mr. Savage recently. And, she added, there's something amiss with the members of that church, or any church, who do not understand that. The most important part of my pastor's job, she explained, is gaining and keeping the trust of her members. She hears the most intimate secrets from church members and if they cannot trust her, she cannot stay in her position. Mr. Savage broke that trust in so many ways in this case, probably the worst of which is preying on a minor. The second worst are his lies (I don't care if they're through omission) to his current congregation.
This man, and Trump, are exposing the cheap grace and worthless message of the white, evangelical movement of America. Yes, forgiveness is very important. But it works both ways (Mr. Savage did not reach out to Ms. Woodson in an earnest manner) and, more importantly, you still must pay for those sins. Mr. Savage wants cheap grace. And his congregation preaches just that, cheap, worthless grace.
34
What is going on with those "supporters" of the pastor sending hate and accusatory messages to the victim? What is that all about?
12
“Highpoint Church concluded an investigation of Mr. Savage this week. Its results are not yet public.” When a congregation gives a rapist a standing ovation, it’s not a sign for hope or justice for the victim of the crime. Seeing as how these types of crowds seem to fawn over pedophiles, I’m not holding my breath. For many of us, there will never be justice. Not ever.
10
I sympathize with Jules, for sure. Savage abused his power and engaged in a very definitely shady sexual overture. But to categorize it as an assault? I don’t know. It’s true she was only 17, so I guess that technically counts as rape (except in Alabama apparently), but can we really say he ASSAULTED her? It seems to me that to designate such a tawdry, ill advised sexual advance as an assault does a disservice to all those victims who have actually been assaulted, and serves to undermine the very objective we as a culture are trying to move toward: a sexual harassment-free equality that places a taboo on those in power who might try to take advantage of their position for sexual gratification,as well as a zero tolerance for sexual violence. To conflate the two does no good.
47
having some trouble with you arguing that rape isn't really assault. Can you explain?
6
Read the actual "incident" details.
This was, indeed, an assault. Cut and dried. No conflation required.
5
You don't understand the nature of abuse of power.
This case involves two abuses of power: (1) by an adult over a child, and (2) by a person holding a position of power and trust over a person they are supposed to protect, counsel and guide.
There is nothing "technical" about sexual violations achieved through coercion and the abuse of power. Whether they are "assaults" depends on how one defines "assault." But they inflict grievous and lasting harm on the victim, and calling them "assaults" is a way of communicating that fact.
They are not merely "shady," "tawdry," or "ill-advised," and they are not merely a sexual "overture" or "advance." They're a sexual violation, just like rape and violent sexual assault. The victims are "actually" -- profoundly, physically and intimately -- harmed, just as in a violent assault. Your repeated use of such language evinces a desire to minimize the crime.
"Tawdry" means "showy but cheap and of poor quality." In a sexual context, it means only lurid and gossip-worthy. It's usually reserved for consensual but immoral activity, such as an extramarital affair between adults. Why would you trivialize an adult man's sexual violation of a minor by using such a word?
Sure, we could amend our laws to create separate categories for sexually violent acts and sexually coercive acts involving the abuse of power. But the punishment for the latter needs to be severe -- even more severe than the penal codes of most states make it today.
9
Jules is a hero for standing up. I can only imagine the trolls that have come after her. It's all about the patriarchy. There aren't any women standing on that stage hugging Andy Savage.
6
Let's have some perspective, here. A 22 year old guy has a sexual encounter with a 17 year old. The age of consent in Texas is 17. What was the crime?
She said that he asked her to perform oral sex and she did because she thought he loved her. Is that a crime?
College kids make lots of sexual mistakes. Most are not crimes. And most should not be publicized or punished through public shaming 20 years later. This should not be a national story - particularly in the NYT.
13
What was the crime? Assault was the crime.
13
The term sexual assault now covers everything from a stranger jumping out fo the bushes and violently raping someone to stealing a kiss. When this person was 22 he stole a kiss and now has apologized in public for it? This is bad? If the "assault" was more serious, we are not told. So what are we to assume? There should be a way to allow people to confess their sins and reconcile with people they may have treated badly short of going to jail, losing their jobs, and ruining their lives.
5
He forced her to have oral sex when he in a position of authority over her as her youth pastor. “Stealing” a kiss USB actually forcing a kiss on someone because you deprive them of the right to say no. You may want to reconsider whether behaviours to which you appear to feel entitled were ever experienced as other than assault. Nobody is saying that there’s no difference between a kiss and a violent rape. But you have just downgraded forced oral sex to “a stolen kiss” - do you see why that might make people want to draw the line at any form of sexual coercion?
7
Stole a kiss? Are you serious? What planet are you on? Get a grip.
Forcing his penis into the mouth of a young, innocent girl was not "stealing" a kiss.
It is doing depraved violence to a person's entire being.
It is stealing her innocence, trust, belief, and a piece of her life.
6
The confession was woefully inadequate. The applause afterwards disgusted me. This man is unsuitable to be a minister, period.
The woman is totally right that churches should have a higher standard and not try to hide crimes.
10
This kind of hypocrisy within Christian congregations is what led me to drop out of seminary and ultimately loose my faith in a caring God. The sad thing is 99% of Christians do not recognise how their failure to walk the talk drives multitudes away from a potential faith in God.
10
Sadly churches use the concept of forgiveness as a way to silence victims. All a male perpetrator must do is admit the sin and the congregation will forgive them. They don't have to face punishment for the crime or do anything to make amends with the victim.
If the victim makes a fuss, she not he will be asked to leave the church. Women and children are expected to be differential in all things church related to the men in charge.
You would think after the Catholic Church sexual assault scandal, the boy scouts sexual assault scandal, the gymnastics sexual assault scandal, and many more lives ruined by a man using an organized group to find and abuse victims that we would be more inclined to want justice for the victims. Sadly the incident shows that predators will still find sanctuary and forgiveness by the church.
The #metoo movement has demonstrated that abuse is about power. Victims have more to lose than the perpetrators so they remain silent. Complaining can cost you your family, your reputation, your friends, your ability to make a living and most likely nothing will be done to the perpetrator as everyone sides with them rather than the victim.
322
I know of a church where the pastor came on strong to a woman and he was subsequently booted out.
2
Agreed. And I'd like to broaden the word "church" to be any religious institution where the power differential between the leaders and the congregants can and does lead to sexual abuse.
2
This forgiveness bit is a major weakness in Christianity as it has evolved because of the injustice it ignores with respect to the victims. The perpetrator doesn’t need forgiveness. He needs to act to lessen the harm he has caused by verbal apology, by monetary compensation, by acts of expiation in other areas of his life. This “I’m sorry, forgive me” shtick is for the birds and the gullible.
3
Her story is heartbreaking and she is a hero for sharing it. But why would anyone think that a church would be a leader in righting these wrongs? Do we not have enough evidence that churches are about self preservation above all else?
51
It's never just once. She has had the courage to speak up - one day others will too.
54
In the politically charged environment of the "me too" movement everyone is willing to rush to judgment without a thoughtful and judicious hearing of the facts. Every case of sexual misconduct is separate and distinct and to throw everyone under bus in the name of a movement is not justice. A more appropriate term would be witch hunt.
7
Perhaps you meant to comment on a different article. This is not one person's word against another. In this case, the pastor admitted guilt. The discussion is about the complete lack of repercussions.
13
Did you miss the part where this youth pastor went up before the congregation and admitted to sexually predatory behavior? Maybe you think that's ok.
12
In this particular case Andy admitted to actions which should have been reported as a crime. Assistant pastor Larry Cotton resigned. Now Chris Conlee and Highpoint should do the right thing, and require Andy to step down.
8
Ms Woodson, you are the courageous one in this story. As painful as reliving the experience might be you are also the role model for other women who need to speak up, to keep speaking, demanding to be respected, heard, believed until criminals like the reverend have no social coverage, no corners in which to conceal their dark violent impulses.
While I do not know you I do genuinely wish that you did have to experience the things that now make your courage apparent to the world. I would also hope that through the rest of your life you experience friendship & joy that can help subsume & dissipate this trauma.
2
Jules Woodson is to be commended for coming forward. I was molested as a child and can still barely talk about what happened to me, some 44 years later. Her courage is an inspiration to all female and male survivors of sexual assault.
There should be no statute of limitations on sexual assault. We are a sorry society that the burden for receiving justice falls on victims to come forward according to some arbitrary formula. Rape is rape and molestation is molestation, regardless of how long ago it happens.
Please write to your members of congress, and let's get this changed. Surely it's in no one's interest to allow sexual predation to continue.
35
Excellent point.
It's ultimately going to be state legislatures, however, that amend state criminal codes. While it's useful to contact our representatives in the U.S. congress, because they can put vocal and public pressure on their state counterparts, while we're on the phone we should also take the direct action of calling our state legislators.
Street protests at your state capital are also likely to be broadcast on local TV stations, with an immediate, "in your backyard" impact on local viewers ... and voters. Even in today's globalized world, U.S. electoral politics is still primarily local.
3
I've commented on this previously. I am a former evangelical who has dropped away, being horrified at the acceptance of grievous moral lapses. God will forgive you, and Jesus will save you, but I'm sorry that doesn't mean you get a standing ovation for "admitting" your sin-I would say that "admission" may entitle you to some compassionate counseling so you may be able to then make a sincere and heartfelt apology and acknowledgment of the grievous nature of your sin. From what I have read, this "pastor" did not, and the standing ovation he received for his "admission" turned my stomach. Shame on the pastor, and shame on his congregation. I think a spell in a cell would provide a good place for proper meditation on his sin.
JimF from Sewell
500
Repentence is not just about getting your congregation to "forgive" you. It's about trying to make things as right as possible. I don't see that happening here at all.
5
In some religions, God forgives your actions against God, but only the people you have hurt can forgive your actions against them. In this story there is no indication that the pastor asked his victim for forgiveness. I agree with your comment. The guy committed a crime and should be in jail, or have to be labeled a sex offender.
2
There is no one so beloved as a former "sinner" in evangelical world. It's like a club of delusional people. A mask of sanity.
3
How many stories are there like this out there?
I think we want to believe that, however many there are, they are somehow dissociated from me, mine and the culture at large.
Well, I think that until we become a lot more honest about how inaccurate that belief is, we will continue to have more and more and more stories like this revealed and it will become more, and more and more difficult to separate ourselves from these stories and so sit in a kind of smug, self-righteous judgement about evil-doing, perverted "others."
If, happily, that really difficult self-examination should happen--- and, frankly, only if it happens --- might we then be able to reduce the number of these really distressing stories.
5
Can this statute of limitations be challenged so she can have- as an adult- her day in court?
Were other kids approached sexually by Mr. Savage in his role as a person in a position of trust? Did law enforcement ever check to see if there were other victims- it is rare to have only one incident like this isnt it?
11
Highpoint has concluded its investigate without disclosing results. The church's orchestration of this is more than enough for me for conclude they are complicit in the abuse. Faith, real or pretended, without works is dead!
This church person can only offer Ms Woodson his sincere apologies.
13
I noticed that France just set the age of consent at 15 after a long debate about setting it at 13.
2
Further evidence that supposedly "sophisticated" France is eons behind the U.S. and northern Europe.
1
How churches treat female victims of sexual predation is a scandal waiting to erupt. While there is increasing awareness of clergy molestation of boys, girls who are abused, raped, "jumped," or taken advantage of" often find themselves punished and treated as pariahs by religious communities dominated by male clergy, male dominated church councils and the wives, mothers and sisters of religiously affiliated male predators. Jules is a brave woman and I am very happy she states that being a sexual assault victim does not make one guilty of "sexual sin." The word "sin" has been a bludgeon against women for way too long. I am also happy that Jules mentions how the film industry is addressing sexual predation while the churches fail to look within. Indeed, gender hierarchy stemming from creation myths about Adam's rib and Eve succumbing to the "talking snake" creates rape culture. Males relate to the male sex drive and so males give each other "a pass." Girls and women: well, they're often judged to have sinned because their bodies are themselves "occasions of sin."
12
Why were mandated reporting laws implemented without including church employees, personnel, officials [not to mention sporting officials, coaches, university officials]. Sexual assault is not a one off. That the solution for Andy was to go home and hide out until the incident died down is not reassuring. And this cloying apology that sidesteps accountability? Not convincing. Jules on the other hand radiates courage.
4
How many others has he exploited in the past 20+ years? These are rarely isolated "incidents."
14
Jules is a hero for standing up publicly, especially in light of the moral stance taken by Andy Savage in response to the #metoo stories he commented on, in social media. The fact that immediately after this incident, and ever since, he has been allowed to counsel on the issue of sexual sin, is an appalling testament on the state of modern evangelicalism. Jule's brave words, and the overwhelming media response, should serve as a wake up call for all denominations.
24
God bless you, Ms. Woodson! You were deeply wronged. You have suffered way too much way too long and for something that was not at all your fault.
I hope you are comforted by the fact that your remarkable courage and bravery are a source of righteous inspiration for other innocents.
11
Again, Evangelicals advocate forgiveness (at least for Trump) but not penitence and accountability.
Highpoint Church is encouraging its pastor to continue to sin by not holding him accountable. The pastor shd at least formally, and in person, seek the forgiveness of the person he raped. He shd at least be suspended for a year and made to work w children and/or women who have also been sexually assaulted to see the damage done to others by the same behavior he engaged in.
6
Do you know what the sin is in this encounter, and perhaps thousands of similar encounters?
The sin is that there is a statute of limitation on criminal behaviors like this. There should be no such statutes of limitation on sex crimes.
Our legislatures should amend the law and remove the statue of limitations, preferably with retroactive effect.
21
When a "youth pastor" is accused of sexual assault, that accusation is almost always true, or at least creates a rebuttable presumption -- if not in a court of law, but certainly in the court of common sense. Just consider the self-selection involved in those choosing to go into this arena of battle with the devil and temptation.
2
These mega-churches idolize their pastors like they are the second coming. By emphasizing redemption and forgiveness they brush away the seriousness of the sin. He, like most pastors, didn't even admit to the actual sin. It was just an event in his life that he forgot. But now, it was all about him, how sorry he is, penitent and knows God has forgiven him so the congregation should just forget about his sin and let's move on. It's a matter of guiding people's thinking along the wrong path. Of course, his congregants applaud because he is so "Christian".
This is the same thinking when Sarah Palin's daughter was flaunted during her campaign. Instead of being embarrassed that her unwed teenage daughter was pregnant, they turned her into a hero for not having an abortion.
17
Classic patriarchy. Mr. Savage might well be genuinely sorrowful about what he did. But by itself, his admission of wrongdoing does nothing to change the hierarchies of power that determined what happened to Savage as opposed to Woodson.
• He was not arrested or made brought to account before the law. He allowed to leave his original post with the good will and admiration of the congregation. Meanwhile, she was left in isolation without any reparation for the harm done to her.
• He was able to take up a leadership position and continue his paid work, while she was left to deal with her trauma on her own.
• He is applauded for public penitence and held up as an example of godly humility while she is attacked.
All of this is proof of just how strongly people––women as well as men––want to keep men in their positions of authority, respect, and prestige, even when that comes at the expense of the women abused by men.
431
It needs to be stated that he did not break the law, so it should not surprise anyone that he was not arrested. You may feel that the consequences were inadequate, by today's standards, but they were real. He did not keep this a secret. Personally, I believe that revisiting the issue 20 years later out of a desire to see greater consequences, and to destroy a man's career, is not entirely seemly. I doubt that it would even be a real benefit to Ms. Woodson.
1
And Pope Francis gave a benediction at Cardinal Law's funeral held at St. Peter's Basilica - what more need I write...
1
A prime reason for the continued separation of Church and State. Religions come and go and among almost all of the odder ones-including LDS in the 1800's, have been cases of mass kidnappings and the veritable rounding up of fertile females for as the property of a few powerful men. The FOunders wanted our immature government to leave well enough alone.
1
Mr. Savage evidently requested forgiveness and received it from his congregation.
First, it was not theirs to give. They were not the aggrieved party.
Secondly, Christian forgiveness is one thing, but it means little if the offender escapes justice, whether legal or moral. That surely was the intention behind Mr. Savage's address to his flock. It's disgusting that his church tried to protect him by throwing around the right words like sin and redemption
281
Exactly. And the hypocrisy shown by the church and its adherents to their pastor is the exact same attitude many evangelicals are showing Trump.
The very same evangelicals, as has been pointed out many times before, who excoriated Bill Clinton.
11
He says he's sorry and sounds so very contrite. But when one has sinned, forgiveness must be asked of the person who was sinned against. Strange that no one in the congregation seems to recall this; they have no right to forgive him. You can't hurt someone and then go ask forgiveness of a bunch of people who have nothing to do with the sin. It looks from this vantage point as if he's playing his "audience." Wonder how many other young women he's taken advantage of or, more to the point, assaulted.
4
Being a clergyman is not an excuse for not saying you're sorry. I find the applause to be misplaced. Why isn't the congregation asking him how he plans to make amends to Jules Woodson? Why aren't they telling him that there's no forgiveness without going to her and apologizing without making any excuses for his behavior?
He was her pastor. He took advantage her. It was not a sexual incident to her. It was a horrifying and life changing event. She didn't ask to be sexually assaulted. But now she's asking for an apology. I guess Mr. Savage's god doesn't require him to wholeheartedly say he's sorry, to apologize to the person he hurt, or to make any amends to her.
He was an adult. He should be the mensch he wasn't then and own up to it and apologize to her, not his congregation.
180
That's unfortunately not how evangelical Christianity works. Everything is between you and God. As long as you repent and confess to God, you will be forgiven. There is nothing in the doctrine that says anything about making amends or apologizing to victims you have hurt - there's nothing that says anything about acknowledging that there were any victims at all! His "apology and confession" was typical of evangelical Christianity - admit something unseemly happened and claim you've repented to God so it can be swept under the rug as quickly as possible.
Of course, this all only applies to men. If you are a woman, your shame knows no bounds, tarred as you are with Eve's brush. You are the one in the pairing who led the man astray. You are the one who, even if he was the aggressor, must have tempted him, whether through your clothing, your demeanor, or your words. It's all on you. And this is why she wasn't mentioned. And this is the second reason why he will never offer her an apology - he sees her as responsible for the incident as well; she is Eve's daughter and as such is a beguiling temptress.
And that is why the congregation applauded him. He confessed and repented his sins of the flesh and is working to overcome them. He has acknowledged that he is a weak man that needs God's guidance and is no better than they. They are comforted by that revelation.
And this hypocrisy is why I left evangelical Christianity as soon as I reached adulthood.
16
lots of things I would like to see addressed re the perpetuation of abuse of power, but 2 things specifically that are in the top 5 are gettting rid of Non-Disclosure Agreements (in most situations) and getting rid of Statute of limitations (in most situations)...
142
Disagree with doing away with NDA. Some victims do not want to relieve their experience under the public eye.
I completely understand the reluctance to allow the filthy rich to buy their way out of trouble. But we must consider what the victim wants. Sometimes, they want some type of compensation and the ability to get on with life.
2
To "Concernicus":
Victims have a responsibility to report crimes, to prevent the perpetrator from harming future victims. This is especially so in the case of of sexual crimes, because the perpetrators are typically repeat offenders. And it is even more crucial in the case of sexual crimes committed against children, because the perpetrator is often a pedophile, hebephile (attracted to younger adolescents, roughly 11-15) or ephebephile (attracted to older adolescents, roughly 15-19), who repeat their crimes dozens and even hundreds of times over.
We all then have a responsibility to treat victims with respect. That includes supporting them during the legal process and protecting them from bullying, like the kind of cyberbullying online trolls have been subjecting Ms. Woodson, and the kind of in-court bullying Saifallah Khan's defense lawyer subjected.
We all have a responsibility to ensure our state legislatures enact rape-shield laws that prevent defense attorneys from, among other things, raising irrelevant, prejudicial and inflammatory matters such as the victim's clothing, and any statements made to the defendant before, during and after the crime, unless consent is at issue and the statement amounts to "yes, I want to have sex with you" at the time in question.
2
I agree on non-disclosure agreements. However statue of limitations have a reason and a purpose. A case tried in court needs to deal with facts and memories and proof are difficult to resurrect the more time that passes. If someone makes an allegation, they need to show proof. Innocent until proven guilty. The problem facing the MeToo movement is trying to use social media to try people publicly. You just can't go back twenty years and drum up a solid case. In addition, we don't know what happened. I did not hear the word rape used in this article and sorry but Al Franken squeezing a woman's hip in a photo op is not the same as Weinstein terror. I have said before this smell of the McMartin preschool hysteria of the 80's. People should have their day in court to prove their innocence. Blogging to a group of willing haters is not the way to handle because it is too late.
I am sure people will not like my response but, at this point, I'm not sure I care.
Thank you for sharing your rape experience. I was victimized as a child 40 years ago and still have not been able to confront my victimized. You are very brave and should be proud of your strength.
274
I really never leaves one, these experiences, how they seem to sear themselves into our consciousness and are always there. I sincerely hope you are able to find comfort for your pain.
8
The age of consent in Tennessee is eighteen. Tennessee Code Sec. 39-13-506.
The statute defines statutory rape to include victims aged 15-17. It differentiates between cases in which the perpetrator is less than five years older than the victim from those in which the perpetrator is five or more years older, considering the former to be relatively mitigated, but in both cases it defines the crime as statutory rape. It also includes oral penetration.
The article doesn't state how old Mr. Savage was at the time of the crime, but either way, it was statutory rape.
What is your motivation, I wonder, in stating this falsehood. Defending males no matter what?
4
I see I made an error in my earlier comment, that the crime occurred in Texas, not Tennessee (my alit on "Memphis" when I went back to the article to check on the location), and Texas sets the age of consent at 17.
But it's simply another part of the problem that Texas sets the age of consent at 17. Sex, especially in today's world, is a complex social interaction that few teenagers fully understand, and society has an interest in protecting them from exploitation and abuse by older people. A more reasonable and realistic approach defines statutory rape not only by the age of the younger party, but also by the age *difference* between the older and younger parties.
Our current set statutory rape laws are also part of a mish-mash of age-restriction laws that vary greatly state to state and make little sense in relation to each other. Young people are deemed old enough to consent to sex, marry, join the military or buy a gun before they're deemed old enough to vote, buy cigarettes or drink alcohol. It's long past time for states to agree on at least regionally if not nationally uniform set of age restrictions, and one that shows some semblance of rationality.
1
Mr. Savage, If you're really sorry, do something about it. You repair the damage, and make up for it, and never do the thing you're sorry for again. It's not sufficient to cry and say you're sorry like a two year old, to people you didn't hurt, and had no idea what you were specifically talking about. You earn a standing ovation only by healing the hurt and pain you caused Ms. Woodson. I don't see that's happened yet.
254
Exactly. If he were truly sorry, he would have begun his confession by telling the congregation that the encounter was not consensual and that he committed a crime twenty years ago. He would have begun by absolving Ms. Woodson of responsibility.
His purpose was to win supporters, not apologize.
15
Better yet, March your self down to the police and atone for you sins.
3
Believing in things that do not exist like gods is the beginning of losing your mind,
and people who believe in spirits will always put the blame on the spirits not on themselves.
142
Please tell us how you know that there are no gods?
Not enough details to make any useful conclusions here.
26
1. He admitted it. 2. They applauded. 3. They trolled her online. 4. She is clearly still suffering.
That's enough for me to draw a conclusion. Anyone else?
33
I'm curious, what were you hoping to conclude?
6
@Brian - Not enough details to make a conclusion? Really?
With "Pastor" Savage's unequivocal admission , it is very easy to conclude that he sexually assaulted Ms. Woodson.
And then he had the gall to use his god-fearing religious pulpit to showcase himself as a holier-than-thou, self-righteous pastor. Sickening.
It is also very easy to conclude that Mr. Savage -- like so many men of the cloth -- chose to protect himself behind the sacred walls of his church and to invoke senseless Biblical dogma to redeem his un-redeemable and "Savage" act of violence.
14
What a hero, unwilling to admit his guilt until forced to, and then the blind admiration of his congregation supporting his ‘courage’. Hypocrite, thy name is evangelical.
720
You're incorrect. He did admit his guilt twenty years ago. Hardly 'unwilling'.
2
Mr. Savage did admit his guilt and he apologized for what he did and asked for forgiveness, albeit publicly.
Whether or not his apology is sincere or not only he can know. It is not for the commentators of this article to judge.
What happened was not rape by any definition, nor does it fall under the definition of statutory rape. There is currently no evidence of serial offenses.
What alarms me most is the seemingly eager desire of many of these commentators to rush to judgment and be more than willing to throw the first stone.
He that cannot forgive others, breaks the bridge over which he himself must pass; for everyone has need to be forgiven. George Herbert
The thing that really gets me about the #metoo movement is how it has led people by the nose to believe that any occurrence with the names sex and abuse behind it are equally heinous and must be punishable by - death - preferably. This is crazy and quite frankly very unjust. Who are the real hypocrites? Maybe the commentators.
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Close quarters, you're the one who's incorrect. He admitted "sin," not crime.
He admitted "incident," a "sexual incident" and "what’s taken place" -- as if it were the sun rising on a certain day -- not that *he* freely chose to commit an act. Not that *he* abused his power, office and position of trust to coerce a minor member of his congregation into giving him a blow job.
He then went on to ask "forgiveness" of this "sin," while evading criminal liability, while accepting continued church employment and without having done a single thing to help the victim, for more than twenty years.
Has he even gone online to confront the trolls who have bullied her? A true Christian -- a sincerely remorseful person of any religious or non-religious stripe -- would have done at least that much.
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Jules, you are truly brave and powerful woman. Your story is important and we need to hear your voice. America stands with you. Your voice and your truth guide us!
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Disgusting. This " church " should be sued out of existence. Come forward, Victims. It's the right thing to do, even at a later date.
385
So very sad and so unfortunately representative for the state of our churches! It is a miracle we do not have more atheists.
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It's not a "miracle" that there aren't more atheists. It's a testament to the astuteness of P.T. Barnum's observation that there's a sucker born every minute.
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Two points, first, however true the statement is, PT Barnum didn't say it. Second, science, including but not limited to evolution, has lots of adherents, notably excluding fundamentalists, but atheism still can't get a foothold. Maybe there are limits to suckerdom?
There are those of us who separate Divinity from the depraved actions of humans. We have freedom in this life, it is telling how some people use their freedom, which in this case is to violate young women and then ask for forgiveness from an audience not involved with the violation. To believe in something larger than the activities of human beings, to believe in things unseen such as love, redemption is not to be a sucker. To believe in goodness in spite of all the evil in the world, does not mean one is a sucker. Such goodness can help create a world where these horrible things do not happen anymore, that children and youth are not subject to such violations, and also can help create safe and healing spaces for the recovery from these violations can ensue. Something that is not discussed is how perpetrators of sexual violence are often victims themselves. Those of us working to heal these wounds are often people of faith, who in the face of great trauma and tragedy, focus on goodness to keep us going in the midst of chaos. We are not suckers.
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This is a classic case of power over victim. The perpetrator was in a leadership - pastoral, even! - position over whom he could impose his authority in order to draw illicit activity from an innocent to succumb. She is right to ask why the church - any church, (established faith tradition), or claiming as legitimate (evangelical or "born again") - doesn't hold it's "elders" to a higher bar. AND there should never be a statute of limitations. Period.
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This is usually the case when youngsters are involved. It happened to me with the family doctor. He's long dead but I still remember what happened and I hated myself for years for being so needy and letting him do it. But I came from a family that was physically and verbally abusive, lacking in affection, angry, and so on. It never occurred to me that I should tell anyone about it, stop it, or that he had no right to touch me. My parents hurt me. Why shouldn't someone else?
This isn't the case with Jules Woodson as far as I can see. But she too feels betrayed, hurt, and confused because someone she should have been able to trust abused her sexually.
The mind knows no statute of limitations. The memory is there in our bodies. You don't forget. You make your peace with what happened and you pick up the pieces. If you're lucky you can reassemble yourself.
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Of course there should be a statute of limitations. People grow and change. As do the memories of witnesses and even victims.
I have never assaulted a woman in my life. The very thought repulses me. Still, I would not like to be judged by every action I did as a 22 y/o. And that was more than "almost two decades later."
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Ms. P.G: I agree with you totally ! There should be no statute of limitations for Rape. The sexual violation of a human being is a contemptible crime, and should be prosecuted with the same unlimited vigor as the abhorrent crimes of kidnapping and murder !
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