I don't know about W. Va., but seeing as how it's a Republican state like mine, I'm pretty sure a high percentage of public school teachers vote Republican there also. Most teachers in red states are political and social conservatives, not "socialist" agitators. So when a group of mainly conservative workers get fed up enough to go on strike, Republicans everywhere need to take notice. Their actual numbers may be relatively small, but they have families who also vote and, lest we forget, they also influence future voters by their example. They just showed a generation of voters that they too will have to stand up for themselves, collectively, to get a fair piece of the pie.
1
Good teachers deserve good pay. Unfortunately, not all teachers are good. When you don't do your job in the private sector you are either moved to a job you can do or are let go. Not possible with public service unions. And that IS a problem. I'm all in favor of paying teachers a reasonable salary, but the pension and benefits are a killer.
In West VA, "A regular retirement benefit under the Straight Life annuity option is an amount equal to 2% of a member’s final average salary multiplied by the member’s years of service credit paid in equal monthly installments. Final average salary refers to the average of the 5 highest fiscal year salaries out of the last 15 fiscal years of contributing service. Normally, this figure will come from the last 5 years of employment." So, if you work for 30 years, and your highest earning years averaged to $50,000 (a low ball amount considering that's just above the average pay), you would be paid 60% of your salary in retirement. NO ONE gets 60% in retirement! Most get no pension. The argument has always been that public service employees make less than their private counterparts, but that is a lie - changed in the early 1990s where public employees now make the same or more than the private sector. Also, teachers have far more time off than any other occupation; enjoyed by many who then have more time for fun in the sun with family/kids.
2
We live a country where the highest individual tax bracket maxes out at 38% for income of 418K and above. It’s that above part that’s paying at 38% and 20% on their long term investments. You could be making 20 million a year and it’s the same as 418K.
And unlike every other developed nation, the US does not have a wealth tax. A 3% tax on ALL assets annually.
There is NO SURPRISE why we don’t have enough money to pay for basic services and pensions. 46K a year is poverty. I don’t care what Salary index and zip code you use. It’s going to get worse.
2
I agree in large measure, but tell it to the parents whose children were locked out. A school is not a coalmine.
1
It is not the austerity that caused this strike. When pain is equitably shared people will accept their lot, even under challenging circumstances. It is the paring of tax cuts that disproportionately favor the wealthy along with these "necessary" austerity measures that cause people to revolt. The fine people of West Virginia understand this. I wish writers for the NYT would also start to acknowledge it.
When the floods come West Virginia is very close to D.C. Th elites and their followers will need that space and they're not going to be interested in sharing when the waters rise.
They will soon need to strike again. After 30 months or so the raise is gone. They need to demand salaries that keep on pace with inflation.
1
About time.
1
I think the teachers settled for too way little. 5% will do little to help them get ahead so I wish that they had held our for more. I hope these teachers, and all low paid workers, remember that the tax bill made the 1% even richer than they were, made business owners richer, made stock holders richer but that it did next to nothing for the middle class. Vote Democratic this fall and in 2020 !!!
5
One of the first things to be done once the GOP is sent packing is to restore the rightful and lawful place unions once held in your society and were fundamental in creating the economies and infrastructure that were the symbols of the good life everybody now pines for.
2
It's not just teachers. The enormous fortunes the Malefactors of Great Wealth are using to distort our politics were piled up by impoverishing the American Working class.
For those who complain about Teacher (and Government employee) Pensions and Benefits, the question is why don't the rest of us have those? (Pensions & Benefits); Broken Unions, take it or leave it jobs, and shipping jobs overseas is the problem, the 1% (Really the .001%) pocketed much of the gain from Globalization; If you have a job you can buy cheap T-Shirts and your kids get Happy Meal Toys.
Scott Walkers taxpayers used to have good jobs (with Pensions and Benefits) in the Auto Plants and Paper Mills, until Koch Industries shifted production "elsewhere".
Every town in the USA has a floating homeless population and working families suffering from "Food Insecurity". For younger readers, this is a NEW feature of American society, largely correlated with Republican Ascendency starting with Ronald the Dim. It didn't used to be this way.
There are multiple stories elsewhere about the negative economic and political consequences of Right to Work laws and other parts of the Right Wing Agenda.
I predict we are in for another round of the divisive Political and Labor Struggles of the 1930's to get us back to where FDR left us. It's that, or watch our fellow Americans starve in the streets.
3
It is always important to have public DATA available besides wanting to eliminate money from politics (an absolute necessity).
It would be nice if we could have an easy to read and publicly-available simple spreadsheet that would show the average American where the tax money is coming from and where it is going. Maybe one spreadsheet for the state and one for the nation.
That would be data that would stop a lot of the political nonsense one hears. it would be nice if new generations were taught how to read and understand such spreadsheets.
Of course, all of this sounds extremely complicated and going nowhere.
I will just point out that we are going nowhere already. Either we stay enlightened or we do not.
I would also point out that, if you pay attention to what is happening, you will confirm that there are more and more efforts engineered by Republicans to SUPPRESS disseminated public information, whether from the NRA, Legislatures, Supreme Court or Fox News and others.
Let's spend money on innovation in education, use technology to shatter the need for hundreds of thousands of teachers of vastly varied abilities, and look to micro segmenting our children based on how they can best learn and reach their own vastly varied potentials, free from the current lockstep classroim one size fits all model. How about schools as netwoks of virtual and interactive students, nationally/globally forming and reforming with dramatically reduced needs for local teachers and vastly expanded roles for the best teachers, AI, and lical counselling/mentorship?
1
The pay for teachers in all but a very few states is laughable for more reasons than can be explained here with limited space. Most Americans think we should have a world class system of education but there are many systemic reasons preventing that, including not only the pathetic compensation teachers receive but the nearly total lack of meaningful voice and respect given to teachers within the larger system. I often think we should have a nationwide teacher strike.
4
Where does West Virginia rank in cost of living indices? We're not told in any of the articles. I'm sympathetic to the teachers but it makes sense that they'd be somewhere in the forties on the list of teacher pay. Alaska and Hawaii are expensive places to live. West Virginia has got to be far more affordable. One article mentioned apartments going for 700-1000 dollars a month. Try that in Los Angeles and San Francisco and tell us what those teachers make to provide some context.
For all the cheerleading on the strike, I think they didn't go nearly far enough. 5% sounds like peanuts. Should have been a clause in there tying their future salaries to a cost of living metric. And their health care benefits should be no different than the state politicians serving in the Charleston.
2
Unfortunately Scott Walker's message that "We can no longer live in a society where the public employees are the haves and taxpayers who foot the bills are the have-nots” resonates with many private sector employees who've been put out on the street as a result of globalization. When retired and laid off employees in the private sector learn that their pensions and benefits are gone because their corporation needed to increase profits, they do not have sympathy for underpaid teachers who lament having to pay higher monthly premiums for health care. Until disenchanted private sector employees--- both current and former--- realize that the corporations' decision to value shareholders more than employees, they will continue to buy into the notion that "public employees are the haves and taxpayers who foot the bills are the have-nots"... and the divide and conquer techniques of the Koch brother's wing of the GOP will prevail.
10
started so well and then went off the rails.
According to the attached NEA spreadsheet, South Dakota was dead last in teacher salaries. This is not a distinction to be proud of yet SD legislators have no inclination to remedy the situation. Education and educators are obviously not highly valued by the governing bodies in South Dakota. It is a terrible situation, and I hope the NEA in SD takes note of what WV has accomplished by striking. For all the responsibility foisted on teachers and now acting as policeman as well, they should be paid like investment bankers.
4
The same is happening here in AZ and I'm shocked it wasn't mentioned. AZ is also ranked in the bottom 5% and will let anyone with a Bachelor's degree into a classroom. It doesn't matter if they've had any pedagogical training- they just have to be breathing. What the state government is doing here is beyond reprehensible; raiding a land trust that never made its way to teachers, districts are allowed to keep people on pay freezes perpetually, corrupt charters run amok- too many things to name. Why isn't AZ included in this? After this year I'm done and moving to neighboring CA. It won't be easy, but it won't be this nightmare.
6
Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin: “We can no longer live in a society where the public employees are the haves and taxpayers who foot the bills are the have-nots.” We want public employees to be have nots also.
Teachers are already have nots and Americans are have nots as far as education is concerned. This is shown by many examples but none so clear as the public officials elected in states such as Oklahoma, Mississippi and most red states.
The lack of basic education in the ordinary citizen of the United States is the root cause of most of our problems from Trump on down. The citizens of the US tolerate, even encourage such stupidity and lack of character in our leaders that the whole system is failing. If the voters are ignorant they will elect ill-suited, ineffective, corrupt and ignorant leaders. Such citizens are prime marks for con men, thieves and power hungry demagogues.
Education is one of the best examples of the phrase, you get what you pay for.
5
mean salary in my town is $95k, pretty good for 9 month's work. tell me again about the have nots.
Given the absurd costs of education, we need a way to identify those jobs that do not truly require a full K-12 curriculum, and direct sufficient numbers of lower grade students into those jobs with only the training needed to succeed at them. At New York's level of spending more than $20,000/year per pupil, it's a tremendous waste to have a Walmart stock clerk go beyond the eighth grade.
1
Tax cuts are a mean spirited joke being played on us by those we elect, regardless their professed party affiliation. The Democrats have perfect cover and will be considered champions among those who are most abused by our long accepted system of bait and switch.
We may be trusting or we may be stupid. Maybe both.
The reason the strike worked in West Va is that all the teachers in the stat walked out. Doing things town by town or job by job won't work in the GOP world: a strike must be massive focused and continuous to win.
5
"The West Virginia Teacher Strike Was Just the Start"
For more reasons than I can list, I hope so.
5
Is this the early signs of "pitchforks" on the "let them eat cake" republicans?
It looks like it to me-
3
I still remember my father, a long time Teamster, on hearing that the Teamsters were crossing the air craft controllers picket line, 'This is the start of the end of unions in the US. Boy was he right.
Right to work laws are basically, 'take it or leave it'.
It's about time that people stand up and say 'I'm not taking this anymore'.
10
It's getting very near time, or maybe has arrived, when all public employees nationwide, need to begin to stick together. Police and firemen, based on their heroic efforts relating to 9/11, have gained a position they didn't enjoy before. Scott Walker in his famous public union attack exempted them so his proposal would fly. What a weasel.
That popularity is interesting since it was New York police and firemen
not those nationwide. Teachers across the country who have stood up to, died at the hands of, and shielded their students from school shooters have not reached that elevated status. I gues they're still just overpaid, work-only-nine months, teachers. Anybody can do it.
When the SCOTUS hands down the widely expected slam to unions via the Janus case, public sector union members nationwide should walk out until it is reversed. If all the worker bees quit, the queens and drones would have to take notice. The country and the economy grinds to a halt if all the workers unite and demand an end to the insanity in this country.
1
public sector days of sucking the public treasury dry are over.
1
This country needs more unions, and we must all stand up for them. I'm not talking about the mafia connected unions of the Jimmy Hoffa era, I'm talking about the democratic, representative unions of 2018. Get behind them, for all our sakes. We must also bring back our right to work laws, and stop letting corporations run the country. Stand up for your rights!
10
Yay for the teachers. Now what can seniors do? We have no jobs to strike from. While Congress debates which new toy the military needs, they find the lowest measure from which to calculate our annual Social Security raise, which is far outpaced by the increases in our supplemental Medicare insurance and our heat and electric bills. So instead of a raise, we lose ground year after year. Where is our one-time bonus in the generous tax cut bill?
5
Don’t you pay taxes?
How's the plan to give them guns coming up?
How sad and how politically stupid that cowardly Democrats, like Obama, Cuomo, Booker and Clinton, abandoned the unions and lent their support to the privatization of public education (with the support of the NYT education reporters). Hats off to West Virginia's teachers for going it alone and achieving their victory, but there will be no state to move to for better wages when the Supreme Court makes right-to-work the law nationwide, and Democrats should hang their heads in shame because they are as much to blame for Gorsuch being on the Court as the Republicans.
7
You get what you vote for..
7
That's what they get for voting Republican.
6
You feel so superior
Squeaky wheels get the grease. Time for teachers to get squeaky. If they don't...shrug...
1
Dumb down teacher standards to produce lesser graduates leaving more spaces in universities to be filed by foreign students paying full freight who will take their knowledge and grow jobs elsewhere. Or temporarily be H2B's to take good paying jobs at Micky D's wages. Americans who refuse to train them will have security escort them off the premises .
Leaving a dumbed down meth and opiate addicted sick and starving peasantry to till their betters estates.
That's how I understand it.
5
I doubt any protests from West Virginia, especially the teachers union, it's going to be the start of any nationwide movement, sorry.
2
One step forward and two steps back; Joe Manchin just got a lot closer to losing in November.
And the same will be the case for Democrats in other right leaning states where teachers plan on donning the role of socialist agitator. These actions mobilize the right.
It’s not the 1930s anymore, and knowledge work isn’t digging in the dirt. If they want more pay and a better life, they can do what other members of the creative class do - learn to hustle, move in pursuit of opportunity, and above all they can embrace performance based pay and get paid for working smarter and harder. Acting like a mouth breathing troglodyte miner from 1930s WV by striking for better pay isn’t a good look for purported knowledge workers. The voters there will notice.
1
- "Acting like a mouth breathing troglodyte miner from 1930s WV... " -
Those are the folks who provided the coal that built NYC. Without coal, metal for skyscrapers wouldn't have been smelted; there would have been less energy for mills that provided employment to the working class.
We so devalue manual labor in this era but would do well to acknowledge that those who get their hands dirty are the legs we stand on and deserve our respect.
5
What does he have to do with the state budget?
As I've posted elsewhere, you can't expect white collar treatment and wages to come from acting like menial blue collar thugs.
1
Oklahoma has solved its pay problems. Look at the large numbers of recent hires of teachers on temporary certification or with poor qualifications. They are cheap baby sitters.
5
I happen to know a bit about OK.
education is lightly valued there because everything you really need to know is in the Good Book and nothing substantial has changed in thousands of years anyway. educators just bring confusing, needless, and blasphemous ideas into the heads of their young changes anyway and they're probably Commies.
meanwhile, public education is funded mainly by taxes, which everyone knows is tantamount to original sin... and it's only for the left behinds anyhow, since anyone who can afford it sends their kids to private school where praying is OK and sex doesn't exist.
have a blessed day, as they constantly say down there.
1
Legalize Pot .. dedicate half the taxes towards health care and the other half towards things like teacher's salaries, pensions, whatever he state needs. That is relatively painless and could ease the financial burdens. Less cuts to social services, less tax raises. And if we went all the way legalizing sports betting and the sex industry, prostitution; states would be flush with funds.
2
Obviously you don’t know that West Virginia has been hard hit by the opioid epidemic.
yes because pot and narcotics are the same thing .. wake up
1
These selfish people care only for themselves. Health care premiums go up in other professions and they are paid. The militant/obstructionist of the left as the Californians resisting federal law only makes more people vote republican. Teachers can strike all they want no one cares really.
3
Strikes are an important part of our historical narrative.
3
An embarrassing part, like slavery and Benedict Arnold.
1
The Supreme Court could be consistent -- through I don't expect that - if it were to rule that stockholders are entitled to compensation if they object to expenditures of company money for political contributions to parties, candidates, PACs, etc. Otherwise, by shafting unions the Court will put its thumb on the political process to favor companies and the Republican politicos they support.
SAD.
3
>
>
Most of the people in this country hate public workers, mostly due to envy.
Every year, a man in my hometown would take out a full page ad in the local newspaper showing all the district school teacher's annual salaries.
One doesn't need much of an IQ to figure out how that went over.
Now these people may like their daughter's math teacher, but they hate the platonic math teacher etc...
This can be said of all public workers, when they're doing something for someone that person approves of them, but when they are helping others they disapprove.
The idea that unions and/or the workers are going to turn this ship around is just optimism gone wild.
This country and the world are heading toward a dark Fascism, which will make the last go around with it look like child's play, not utopia.
The Titan is willing to give you that once we hit rock bottom, we may be able to come back, like Germany did, but that is over 50-75 yrs away.
‘[T]he barricades are a game, and the lords of the manor let the gamesters go on playing for the time being’.
Adorno
3
God save us from teachers making $39K/year after 19 years on the job. No wonder that school diplomas are worthless.
5
When will people STOP subscribing to Republican nonsense!
How can you take anyone seriously who cuts taxes repeatedly, and then bemoans the fact that there is no money available???
2
this doesnt make any sense whatsoever. when was the last time local taxes (which pay teachers) went down? please list all examples
2
Last time....hmmm... maybe this year when WV lowered the taxes by 40% on Oil 'n Gas and Coal industries. ?! Or do you not consider this to be "local"?!
https://www.wvgazettemail.com/business/wv-senate-passes-big-tax-cuts-for...
Maybe it was the $353 million tax cuts enacted in '06 for Corp., food tax and a business franchise tax.
https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/politics/with-wv-s-m-budget-deficit-m...
Over the same span, the state also created a family tax credit, increased its homestead exemption and got rid of an alternative minimum tax and corporate charter tax.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/wvcbp/pages/494/attachments/origin...
But hey, don't let a few examples change your view point.
You want a list of all? Google them yourself.
2
"...the party controls the governor’s mansion and both houses of the Legislature, as they do in 25 other states..."
Somebody remind me again please, what are the DNC and DCCC good for?
1
Funny once again: your commentator forgets to mention that the WV school teachers demanded--and got!--an across-the-board raise for ALL public service employees.
There use to be a song, long, long ago, let me see...
Solidarity forever!
2
I hope you are right, but I'm certainly unsure about Americans as real, engaged citizens. I haven't seen much of it.
We gripe in the break-rooms and bars about how unfair things are, but we don't do much. Yes, we work hard, but no, we are not good citizens. We are very lazy in that regard.
So, I say hurrah for the teachers of West Virginia, they are examples of real democratic vigilance. We must stand, or we will continue to be stood on by the bullying and cruel upper classes, that are very good at having lobbyists, lawyers, politicians and judges in place to fight their cause. This land of billionaires and poverty is the proof of our corrupt pudding. Terrible cooks are we!
Compassion should drive us, not desperation. I mean really, how many houses, how many cars, how many millions or billions make a person happy? Especially if that requires someone else to be poor? If we want to claim some idea of a 'Christian' nation, then all we need do is love. Love. Isn't that the greatest commandment? I know it's not greed and property and wealth.
Just be good people. We are good. But our worst instincts are rewarded. Our fake patriot evangelical President is a bullying, womanizing, greedy, liar. I wonder why? Maybe, at our worst, that is US.
7
Here's hoping that the West Virginia teachers inspire college adjuncts to get fed up!
3
Yesterday on Democracy Now!, a West Virginia teacher said that their mantra has been that one voice produces an echo, thousands of voices produce a roar.
Roar, Oklahoma!
2
Republicans envision a society in which everyone who matters will send their children to re-segregated "charter" schools, leaving public education only for minorities and the poor. The sad truth is that it's the American way.
2
Like Norma Rae said in the film: UNION.
2
There is nothing surprising about Republicans cutting taxes while cutting education spending and denigrating unions - this is what they do. Why would we think Republicans would want pubic schools to be work efficiently and effectively?....this would produce an informed electorate capable of critical thinking. Far better for them to have public schools collapse in chaos, making it that much easier to infect empty minds with the easy-answers hokum of Fox News and Sean Hannity, and of course elect even more Republicans. One can only hope that this glimmer of hope in West Virginia will finally begin to turn the tables.
40
Sadly, one of the surest ways to foster fear is to restrict education. Unless a student really learns to think and explore and challenge the status quo, s/he grows up afraid of outsiders, strangers and the unknown. So you get adult voters who hate immigrants, think safety comes from guns and bombs, and cant tell real information from "entertainment" news. And we all know who benefits from the above.
5
With no disrespect for the beleaguered teachers, I offer today that the phrase West Virginia Department of Education is indeed an oxymoron, of which the Republican Legislature and Governor are very, very proud.
Teachers, demand what you are worth!!!
3
It's interesting that the teachers of West Virginia were able to organize this in a right-to-work state. The power of people who work is tremendous. We need to realize this and be courageous. In 2008 when the economy tanked we printed money and we borrowed money. The hedge was that if there were jobs people would work. In other words, we bailed out the American economy. Without us there is no American economy. People like trump derive their power from the people who willingly work for them. This should not be forgotten. WEST VIRGINIA!!!!!!!
3
Thank you West Virginia Teachers! You stand for more than fair wages, but also for children, education, and the rights of labor. There has been a terrible decline in the rights of teachers, doctors, nurses, secretaries, transit workers, sanitation workers and all who are not wealthy business owners. $39K after 19 years of work is cruel. Taxpayers pay taxes for public services including the efforts of teachers, not to make someone corporate owner very rich. You are not alone in your plight. Every day more and more professional jobs are becoming "contract jobs" thanks to Republican politics. How long before West Virginia teachers might have become "hourly" workers sans benefits, sans worker rights, sans hope? I hope this sparks a nationwide movement for fair wages, union activism, and replacing those haughty (almost all Republican) legislators who brought us to this place of middle class poverty.
29
And hopefully this movement will spread to colleges as well. Colleges and Universities are inflating the cost of college tuition way out of the range of most middle income families all on the backs of adjunct instructors. We have no job security, no benefits, low wages that force us to drive to several different schools trying to cobble together the semblance of some sort of living wage. It's criminal. I can't tell you how many times I've had to hold office hours on the way to my car so I could get to my next teaching gig. And most months, I can't pay my rent. If you want a well educated generation that can compete globally, you actually DO have to pay people enough money to live.
6
History repeats. The WV teachers' strike is exactly why labor organized in the first place, over a century ago.
3
Oklahoma teachers are set to go out in early April. Parents and students are behind them.
They have not had a raise in nine years and need at least 10% to prevent the teacher pool continuing to hemorrhage.
Meanwhile Big Fossil, which owns the legislature is getting a nearly free ride.
1
I'm curious to know what the end game is for our current Republican leaders. Do they want an uneducated population? Or, a country that consists of those who fought their way to the top, inherited wealth, or are toadies to these people - and then everyone else?
I believe that it is the right of every person to live to their potential and high-quality education is key to making this happen. However, it costs money, time, and effort. There is no shortcut. How can we as a society help make this happen? Perhaps, like the brave and noble educators in WV, we need to rise up and make our voice heard. Even if you are a little discontent, let it be know. If you are happy with the current situation - good for you. Think then of how you can help others who are less fortunate. Supporting education is everyone's duty!
32
In answer to your (admittedly rhetorical) question: In Republican fantasy, the endpoint is a paradise of self-educated yeoman freeholders. In actuality, the endpoint is feudalism. The best fictional treatment of what such a modern feudalism might actually look like is the classic "Snowcrash" by Neal Stephenson.
2
The bottom line is that these state governments (like my own state of Utah which is down there at the bottom in terms of financial support for education) do not value or even want public education. In the most conservative parts of my state, they appear to consider it a burden that they want gone. It took me by surprise to learn how strong a movement it is among conservatives to destroy public education. But, in the context of Betsy DeVos, it makes sense. How did we get here? A decent public education for everyone was something that defined us as Americans.
2
Here in Arizona, we are at the bottom with teacher pay, and our test scores are abysmal. When I taught community college, I routinely encountered students lacking basic math skills and who couldn't put letters properly together to form words. Such a situation does not make employers happy. About a decade ago, Google was going to set up shop in Phoenix, affiliated with ASU. They wound up running for the exit. There are obvious consequences for our actions. And our inactions.
2
Articles about teachers often give an “average” salary. But this is meaningless and potentially misleading unless we know how long the average teacher has been working. Do you earn $46,000 after 5 years at the job or after 20 years? That the starting salary is $30-something thousand and that many teachers work a second job tells a lot.
4
We are all already suffering the effects of poor education in our public school system, especially in the poorer states like W.VA, Oklahoma and Ms.
It is so critical. But our greedy government only worries about corporate earnings, Wall street and the defense establishment. Change in Nov.
1
I'm one of those NY "hideously overpaid" teachers. I wake up at 4 or 4:30 a.m., and usually leave work about 4:30 p.m. I'm a seasoned teacher and don't attend school anymore, but I do attend workshops, and prepare new lessons for my classes. I learn at least six new choral songs (repertoire for my winter concerts.) I don't think I would be happy working at any other job (and I have worked at other jobs.) My "pay" is how I reach my students. Every year, I keep a note or two. This one is especially dear: "Thank you. Whatever trajectory to greatness that Stuart (name changed) is on - even if it remains as greatness of spirit and receives the silence of celestial applause 0 I will always trace it to you and your encouragement. He came to [school] having just learned how to talk, and he was taught to speak. But you gave him a voice. And connected that voice to his inner being. Thank you for your music and your inspiration. Long May You Run! Many blessings..."
I support and applaud the teachers of W. Virginia and all teacher unions, but I'm relieved to be at the end and not beginning of my teaching career.
"Child centered" is and always will be how teachers approach their profession. Unfortunately, administrations have become pressured by bottom lines, corporate sponsored testing, politics, and education is no different than any other business. If government regulated education and paid teachers their worth, none of this would be an issue. Oops, my socialist slip is showing.
2
I am thrilled for the teachers in West Virginia. But don't expect this to spread. Because Republicans will take the 5% raise out of someone else's hide to pay for this. And they will blame the teachers for whatever pain is inflicted on others. "Little poor children are going to go without breakfast so the greedy teachers can have a huge raise". Expect it. Or "The teachers are taking your tax cut". Governors across the country will use it to get the public to turn on teachers. But remember this all you teacher bashers out there: Republicans say over and over government is bad. It's the private sector that will save the day. Take the money out of the government's hands and give it back to the wealthy and they will become America's heroes. They will save the middle class. They will take away your pain. Keep telling yourself that. It is the private sector that has maximized profit at your expense for decades. And now you think they are going to "do the right thing" by you? So as you await your due from all the wealthy's windfall, remember you will continue to pay a price for your faith in the Republican doctrine. You have waited this long, what's a few more decades to reap the crumbs coming your way?
33
There will not be a strong public sector workforce unless there is strong private sector workforce. The Democrats need to work with the Republicans on reasonable immigration limitations. H-1Bs need to be limited, no more layoffs of Americans. Laws need to be enforced.
1
I have taught future teachers for years and currently teach in an innovative program that started at the Univ. of Colorado to recruit some of our best college students into teaching. The program is great and now copied at 90 universities. Our #1 handicap is low salaries for teachers. We constantly lose the best candidates to higher paying fields. I guess it makes sense if you’d rather have the best students design video games. I’d rather have them teach our kids.
2
This is why I think the upcoming Supreme Court decision in Janis will have less effect than most believe. West Virginia teachers have none of the bargaining rights that Republicans want to strip from others, but they struck and won anyway. Remember that the great labor battles of the last century were fought before unions had Federal protections.
2
And please don't forget that the tax bill recently passed by Republicans discontinues the write off teachers got if they bought supplies with their own money to use in the classroom.
2
West Virginia teachers spent the last ten days or so teaching their students a very valuable lesson -- the power of solidarity and the power of the strike. It's long past time for the rest of the nation to learn those lessons.
I hope these teachers add American labor history to their curriculum but, given that WV is a red state, there's probably a law against that. Wouldn't want the peasants to get uppity, you know.
2
So in what ways is Trunp's economic policy successes successful? He's proud of the stock market's gains and the growth in the total economy. I guess we should ask what we mean by "the economy." If the middle class is becoming the bottom half, if teachers are being forced to spend their time bagging groceries to be able to pay for their health care, if Social Security and Medicare are on the chopping block, what is this "U.S. economy" the 1% talk about?
3
This is why we don't trust MSM. What is this the start of exactly? The state of WV has a population equal to Philadelphia. The teachers strike. I thought they would turn this into a labor Battle of Verdun, but instead they cave in after a few days. Their 5% raise is like a small dividend from the South Sea Trading Co. to keep the investors happy for a little longer. The raise will quickly be consumed by healthcare costs. The state, meanwhile has $8 billion in cash and $16B in bills and $5B in unfunded pension liabilities. If this is an opportunity to "challenge" students, why not ask them this--the state has promised their teachers pensions that it can never pay--should it keep the ponzi going or come clean about how much trouble it is in?
When Trump disrupts everything, his mental sanity is questioned. When teachers disrupt everything, it's some kind of rebirth of the labor movement. They should inquire who's funding their pensions.
States have shrunken their revenue base by giving massive tax credits to companies that promise jobs that never come or to sports owners that just raise the price of a seat then they tell workers that they can not afford health insurance or a professional wage. We need to invest in teachers, and infrastructure and not in Foxcomm,etc.
2
I am relatively young so I wasn't alive or politically informed when education was the silver bullet in politics, I can't imagine why it isn't now.
In America good education is extremely unaffordable, I live in the Princeton area where our public schools are still very competitive and academically superb so I found no reason to go to private school, yet most people aren't so lucky.
Private schools most of the time cost around the same amount of a college's tuition, that's a lot of money, we can't possibly expect every American family to have saved enough to be able to pay off the loans/debts that are accumulated. Instead of spending so much money on defense or having unproven programs let us invest on the next generation, because before we know it the next generation will be the generation leading this amazing country.
Also let's heed the words of Socrates, I think his words are easily applicable especially in light of the election that had taken place 2 years ago. It was a election riddled with fake news, ill informed assumption, and outright denial of fact. When we have a strong and well rounded education system our democracy will flourish. We have to teach this new, young generation on how to make good decisions, not react to impulsively, not to react solely on emotion and in general participate in our democracy (our voter turnout rate is abysmal) and carryout our civic duty.
While the West Virginia legislature was robbing other parts of their business-tax- reduced- budget to give a paltry raise to their teachers, nobody addressed our multi-trillion dollar military expenditures . The U.S. needs to transfer some of the money that we waste being the occupying cops of the world to positive, civilian use at home.
Every teacher in OUR country could be paid a decent wage if we didn't feel the need to keep military bases in other countries for decades and get into the middle of centuries-old tribal conflicts.
2
First, congrats to the West Virginia teachers! They took a stand, asked for a reasonable pay raise, and stood united. They showed us why collective bargaining and unions are so important even today.
Today, all employees benefit from workplace protections, salaries and benefits that were only achieved through the hard work of previous union workers long before them. These protections and the state and federal laws that help protect employees and collective bargaining didn’t come about because of trickle down benevolence by large corporations or their owners or from the benevolence of elected officials. No, it was achieved by a long and often bloody and deadly fight over many generations that these important employee protections were achieved and enacted into law.
The West Virginia teachers showed us why unions are still so important today and why the pending Supreme Court decision is still so relevant.
1
Before conservatives start complaining about public sector unions again, remember that there is NO public sector teachers' union in West Virginia. Its a "right to work" state for teachers. So, without the alleged propaganda, corruption, and supposedly unfair coercion experienced by workers who have to pay dues against their consent--without ALL the things you can't stand about public sector unions--West Virginia teachers ROSE UP ANYWAY.
Hopefully you'll get the message--that underpaid workers WILL resist your plans to decimate the social safety net in the name of "personal responsibility" and "privatization", and, if they stay together, they WILL BE HEARD.
Think about this before you vote for another group of politicians who wants to turn this whole country into Kansas under Sam Brownback.
4
It doesn’t matter what the teachers are paid, they will never think it’s enough. Which makes them identical to every other worker in the world. Nobody, I mean nobody, believes they are compensated fairly.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If the states (especially Oklahoma, where I live) want decent education opportunities for their children, they must pay for it. They don't get it otherwise.
If they want decent roads, bridges, and associated infrastructure, they must pay for it.
The idea that if you simply cut off money for something, it will, somehow, continue on as before, is as absurd as the sun circling the earth. Disproved many centuries ago.
This country has come a long way since its inception - toward the ideal that we all are equal, and deserve a fair shake in this life. It seems the republicans want nothing more than to erase all that. I don't like it a bit.
1
The fact remains that you shouldn't need a union card in you pocket to do your job properly, be it teaching a class, filling a pothole or fighting fires.
2
Beginning teachers in rural Illinois qualify for food stamps. Where are our priorities? Teachers do not get respect and are looked down upon by parents and the business community. If you look for work in other areas the interviewers just look at you. They assume you know nothing and are of no value to them. The State governments and the Federal government do not support teachers; neither do local school boards.You can tell by all if the cuts to education. I totally support the teachers of West Virginia and hope other states will soon support their teachers, too.
1
I am concerned that there was no mention of test scores and matriculation rates. Where do West Virginia students rank with the rest of the nation? Should teacher compensation be commensurate with results? I think so.
1
Democrats have to find the political power to raise taxes on the rich before they push for more spending on public servents. I believe schools should be supported. However, the burden falls on working class families in towns that may not be wealthy and whose citizens are overburdened.
Democrats say: in this rich, rich county, we can afford (fill in the blank)! But they necessarily ask the working class to pay for things the rich should pay for.
Any raises the teachers or other public employees get (deserved, no argument) fall heavily on working class families, whose property taxes go up, and whose own health care premiums are unaffordable. The rich get richer.
This may be why the West Virginians vote Republican. I believe that they would like to have better schools, but they personally can't afford it, and they know the rich elite will never pay their share. Given the choice between bankrupting themselves (most of the people carrying the burden of school taxes likely have lower income and worse benefits than teachers) and seeing school programs cut, they won't bankrupt their own families.
Until Democrats show they can rise taxes and help working class families pay for the things they (Democrats) insist on bestowing but do not have power to raise taxes to pay for, many working class families will vote Republican.
1
Many thanks to the West Virginia teachers for the greatest lesson their students could ever learn: stand up together for justice for all.
56
Oklahoma legislators have noticed the unrest and are talking about eliminating the state income tax for teachers. If that was submitted in my class, I'd send it back to the student with a note that they needed to do more research.
8
During the strike school districts across West Virginia suspended school. Does that mean that teachers were not on out on strike? It will be interesting to see how this plays out in light of West Virginia's statutory ban on strikes by public employees.
I'm not sure that the West Virginia Teacher Strike was so much a union action as a broader political effort to improve public education that was supported by school districts and perhaps some elected officials. Teachers carried the signs and demonstrated. They deserve credit for standing up for public education.
4
This should also make unions reflect on why teachers decided to take action on their own, with or without the support of unions.
Have the unions become so bureaucratized that they were unaware of this anger building among their members? Or was this a strategic decision to stay in the background to avoid the label of “union led” strike which would make the strikers lose sympathy in a Red state?
Unions brought us all the workplace benefits that we take for granted but they have also become rigid and unimaginative. If a union fights only for its members without taking into consideration how its actions are going to affect the rest of society, then they are going to lose ground.
Teachers in WV fought not just for themselves but for all public sector employees and they made tremendous efforts to help those in society, namely the parents, who were most adversely affected by their strike. This kept the sympathy of the general public with them and lawmakers were not able to pit one segment of the population against another.
In the future, unions must think of the impact their demands will have on not just their members but also the rest of the community and make a greater effort to bring that information to the people who live in that community.
Without such broad alliances, Republicans will gut the unions in the years to come.
5
As a member of NYSUT (NY State United Teachers) I can identify. My union rep spends more time telling me what isn't possible because reasons rather than encouraging us to seek not just the possible, but the necessary.
1
A 5% rise on a $45622 income is $2281. With a rise in health care costs of $3600 this is in effect a $1319 pay cut.
20
Still beats a $3,600 insurance increase without a raise for five years.
1
I would like to see a better education system and see teachers rewareded better.
But the other issue with teaching is that at least in my state it is practically guaranteed employment. The unions want high pay, but they also want a guaranteed employment. That means teachers are paid by seniority.
We have a bit of a chicken and egg situation. A business that needs to hire and promote the best people also needs to sometimes fire employees and to set pay by merit.
2
Massachusetts has a very strong teacher union and their test scores are the highest in the nation. Experience matters especially if your administrators do not grant tenure to those struggling teachers in their first three years. Those who think tenure is evil should try dealing with the helicopter parents of today.
5
Koop-aid - While I find your opinion laudable it presents a problem of cronyism. I think there has to be protections so that teachers are not hired, fired, and payed because of their political connections.
I think a better system of teacher evaluation is needed to solve the problem of retaining a teacher who should be terminated.
Paid by seniority is common in lots of fields. USPS and in my business. Also, there are people that are mediocre to poor at their jobs in those same "lots of fields." Another thing, that you did not say, so it ain't in response to your comment, is that there are a lot of good and great teachers now. Often, I hear that if teachers pay was higher we would get better ones. I believe that the opposite could happen, as many people would get into teaching for the money and not the love, passion, or other positive reasons that already exist. So, I am for paying teachers more and hope the 'carpetbaggers' don't fill the ranks.
The commentary mentioned that WV pays on average $45,622 to a teacher. That is low, but WV is one of the poorest states. That figure is above what the average person in WV earns.
With coal mining and manufacturing in decline, WV is particularly vulnerable. The commentary does not say the state is squandering money on the rich.
It seems that if changes in the economy hurt one group of people or one state, then the only solution is for the Federal government to help even out the pain.
No, they just squandered $425 million on a tax cut and then cut per pupil spending. How much of that tax cut went to the top by the way? Hope it wasn't as lopsided toward the rich and corporations as the federal one. Why, we are just going to run circles around China with this investment strategy in our people and infrastructure, right? Oh, sorry, you mean there is no strategy - except tax cuts? Well, maybe we'll run circles around Botswana then (Botswana is saying "no you won't if you stay on the course you're on").
2
In Wake County, NC, a right to work state with no teacher tenure and no salary increases for advanced education, the median household income is $70000. Our teacher work 11 months a year and place between the the bottom 25-35% of households. Do you infer that teachers don't deserve to be middle class in the communities in which they work?
3
The West Virginia teachers greatest achievement is drawing the curtain back on the implications of Red State (GOP) low tax, less government strategy that has come from their uber wealthy donor class. And from the other end of the spectrum some serious reflection and action is needed from states, many in the Northeast and definitely Blue, about overly rich pension plans that are major impacts on the budget pressures and adding more tax, fee, and service cut pain to citizens already paying some of the highest taxes in the nation.
6
Two facts cited in this story jumped out at me, and I think deserve re-reading and consideration of where we, as a nation, are heading.
Here they are:
"Instead of raising pay to attract qualified applicants, West Virginia officials want to reduce certification standards.
Oklahoma is facing its own severe teacher shortage, and dozens of schools in the state have shortened the school week to four days to cut costs."
31
Educators are trusted with some of the most important people in our country-our children. We have cut taxes in many places and cut what can be offered to our kids as well. Less extracurricular activities, no music classes, reduced sports opportunities, all for giving mainly rich people and business more money. The fake claim of caring so much about the kids rings hollow-it took the kids in Florida to get gun laws changed that might protect them a bit more. Good teachers are hard to come by-and maybe like Nordic countries we should recruit teachers from the very top of college classes, something we do not do here.
13
From a global perspective, $40,000 per year and an American lifestyle is pretty good, and living paycheck to paycheck with a pension is quite different than doing so without a pension. If teachers want smaller class sizes and a better educational environment for their students, raising salaries is not the way to go.
In general, we are overpaid in this country, especially at the executive level.
3
teachers are not the executive level.
1
Yes, in Guatemala $40,000/yr would be a fine income. But wait, we live in USA.
2
Executives are overpaid in this country; 40 grand is an insult once you factor in the cost of education.
1
I'd like to know how many of the teachers of West Virginia, Kansas, and Oklahoma voted for Trump.
Secondly, after all these years, why haven't teachers in America been able to organize themselves into a universally respected profession? Teaching in many other countries is a respected profession; here, teachers are thought of like dentists, with humurous suspicion: "Didn't s/he have what it takes to become a real doctor?"
8
Mr. Adverse:
As to the first question you pose, the terms 'buyer's remorse', newly woke', and 'recently educated' come to mind.
As to the second, the question has been asked many times in the past, and while more complicated than just this, certainly involve the perception of teaching-especially below university levels-as a kind of care-giving service rather than a respectable (male-oriented) profession. The 'profits' of education are both deferred and diffuse, and difficult to quantify if one is focused on 'the immediate fiscal' or merely 'what's in it for me'. We have been 'educated' to believe in the power and worth of the military and the economy, but not in how the roots of our culture and its future are sown in schools. Perhaps your query was rhetorical, and if so, well-taken.
6
Unlike doctors and dentists, teachers are public employees.
1
Assuming that they voted at all...it is a fact that less than 10% of teachers vote in any election. I believe that is why most politicians do not take them seriously.
The Democrats had a good chance of reconnecting with the working class by at least showing up in West Virginia in support of the teachers. But it does not seem like reconnecting with the working class is on the Democratic party bosses agenda.
I’m afraid that the Democratic Party will never return to its New Deal traditions of advocacy for the working class.
25
West Virginia also has the 48th lowest median household income among our states, so it can’t be surprising that public schoolteacher compensation also is the 48th lowest. However, while there are limits to what a poor state can afford to pay its public employees, it’s hard to make that case when they cut $425 million in taxes. Then it’s no longer a matter of relative priorities among many pressing needs, but a conscious intent to drown public service in a bathtub.
This is obviously up to West Virginians, but I can think of a lot of public programs I’d cut in the name of austerity long before I’d cut primary and secondary education, particularly when the money was there and simply was taken away.
24
Tell the NYT readers what public programs you would cut before cutting primary and secondary education. You have stated that "...a lot of public programs..." are eligible for cutting in...the name of austerity..." What would you cut?
28
Maybe the reason WV has the 48th lowest median income is that they have a lousy education system, and no one that wants a real education will move/stay there. Employers want an educated workforce. One has to nurture seeds before you get anything to harvest.
1
It wasn’t just “taken away.” It was given to the rich, to reduce their taxes.
2
Today, we discussed the West Virginia teachers' strike in my senior class.
I started the conversation by asking students to imagine their teachers striking. "How might a teacher strike in NC affect you and your family," I asked them. The conversation, while superficial in analysis, was impassioned. Even usually shy, quiet students spoke.
Building on the enthusiasm, I followed with a quick poll: Should teachers in NC get a salary raise? All students said yes. While I appreciated the care for my financial well-being, I challenged their perspective: "Why should teachers get a salary increase?" "How do we pay for it?" The diversity of ideas and opinions was wonderful. I was grateful to hear my students recognize how demanding and challenging my job truly is.
"Would you be willing to pay more in taxes to increase teacher pay?," I finally asked. The class overwhelmingly said no. "But I thought you said we should pay teachers more," I asked with an intentionally confused facial expression.
39
That is the kind of fatal cognitive dissonance that Greed Over People is banking on, Teacher.
Keep trying to pry open those kids' minds.
45
They seem to be getting it -- and in a senior class, almost all should be eligible to vote come November.
We want everything "good" and "righteous" ... we just don't want to pay for it. Maybe we can get the Mexicans to pay for it.
Making good Democrats, the old fashioned way.
13
Your discussion on the students view of the strike and your question show you to be more of a political activist than a teacher. When I was in law school in the late 80’s the Administrative Law teacher asked how much due process should be afforded a SS disability claim dispute. One student said a full jury trial since the government has a limitless supply of money. I laughed out loud, nobody including the professor could figure out why.
The match that lit the forest. Teachers, and hopefully other workers too, realizing that they have to take their destiny into their own hands. And being conciliatory is not the way to go.
32
Interestingly, the average salary for teachers in West Virginia, $45,240, is somewhat higher than the average salary of there of $39,170. Of course, many people don't even have jobs.
4
Given that public school teachers require substantially higher-than-average educational attainment (master's degrees plus certifications) it is unsurprising that their salaries are higher than the average salary for their state. The key issue is that their salaries are extremely low compared to those of comparable positions in other states (WV ranks 49th out of 50 states), resulting in an exodus of qualified teachers from the state.
54
If the average salary in WV paid to a worker with a college degree? Now that's an interesting question, since the minimal requirement for a public school teacher is a college degree plus additional certifications.
16
Jonathon:
Keep in mind teachers, despite their claims, work little more than a nine and half year.
Best way to counter the probable upcoming Supreme Court decision that strips public employee union's dues collecting rights is to strike, strike, strike. Show the real power of labor which is to work or not work as the workers so choose and there will be much less trouble collecting union dues voluntarily. Use the decision to help rebuild the power of unions.
38
True. When unions PROVE they are effective, the rank and file doesn’t whine about paying dues any more.
Best way to counter the probable upcoming Supreme Court decision that strips public employee union's dues collecting rights is to strike, strike, strike.
---
Best response to illegal teacher-strikers is to replace them with young grads who are tired of the Pelosis, Feinsteins, and Schumers who refuse to retire and let others have a chance.
Now is the time to walk out as enrollments in teacher preparation at universities is declining and teaching is not a well-respected profession, as reflected by some NYTs' readers.
There's no turning back for the Republican base. It's done. Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; mere anarchy is loosed upon their world, the blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere, their ceremony of innocence is drowned.
8
Note that in both WV and OK, legislatures have steadfastly refused to adequately tax the resource extraction industries (oil, gas, coal, chemicals) that are a large part of the state's economies.
In both states, (as well as here in PA) GOP dominated legislators have been controlled by those same industries, and for years have managed to convince their constituents that any efforts to tax them would result in a loss of jobs. Instead it has crippled the ability of both states to generate funds needed for basic services such as infrastructure, education, health care and the environment.
Until voters realize that we CAN afford quality education by assuring that everyone pays a fair share, we will continue to cripple our future generations.
64
What do you consider a fair share? In Philly, the school district's debts and unfunded pensions total $50,000 per student.
I just heard that Yates quote read by Sir Kenneth Clark on the last episode of "Civilization" on you-tube. He follows it with his own addentum--the failure of socialism did not provide an alternative to heroic materialism. He is not optimistic. Half of millenials prefer socialism to democracy.
Do it! State legislatures have taken advantage of your concern for your students for decades. There is no need to stay in this abusive relationship. They need you more than you need them. The fact that you're educated makes you stronger. You've waited long enough for the recognition and reward that you deserve. As long as you let them, they'll continue to abuse you! Times up!
42
Please strike, which is an illegal act for government workers. You will be legally replaced by young people who are tired of the Pelosis, Schumers, and Feinsteins who refuse to let others have a chance.
Time is up.
1
Unions built the middle class and unions and the middle class have declined together. But it's clear that teachers and other working people are reaching a breaking point. The Scott Walkers and the Samuel Alitos can do their dirty work but in the end they'll lose. No one and no law could stop the teachers, parents, and students of West Virginia when they stood together for economic justice. A lesson for struggling workers everywhere.
81
Remember Mr. Casagrande is the former General Counsel of the New York State United Teachers in Latham, NY headquarters and successfully fought off any and all attempts to put competency reviews in the forum of public ally financed education.
1
Elected officials in many states and in Congress -- mostly Republicans -- are simply using tax cuts to pay for their own future votes -- by bribing taxpayers with slightly lower deductions from their paychecks.
At least these teachers are smart enough to see the cost of these monumentally expensive cuts, which almost always benefit the rich, sometimes more than everyone else combined. That West Virginia cut of near half-a-billion dollars helped fritter away the money these teachers should have been earning -- and certainly deserved to. Add to that the national cost of the $1.5-trillion Trump cut and you can see why they had to stand up for their rights to be justly compensated for educating all the people who go on to serve our communities and country.
How can we attack the source of this miserly, mean and selfish governance that we now live under? Looking ahead, how many years will it be before these teachers see the next raise -- and what will it cost them to get it? If it's another four years, that means they'll have gotten only a tad better increase then the 1 percent-a-year originally offered them.
20
Wow, sounds terrible, those teachers should quit today and get better jobs.
Please do. Thanks.
GOP/NRA Party : NO millionaire left behind, but Teachers are overpaid. And, they're mostly Women. Welcome to KANSAS, folks.
You can take it, OR you can VOTE in November. Choose.
54
Before Brownback and the Koch-backed group of his followers, Kansans supported good education and decent treatment for people more unfortunate. But as has happened in many other Republican strongholds, the decent people have been defeated in the primaries, or persuaded not to run again. Brownback and his economic scorched earth policies which are contrary to any rational economic theory, have nearly bankrupted the state in their 8 year tenure. They will be years recovering, and is the GOP watching how poorly this idiotic experiment turned out? Apparently not, as they are enthusiastically cutting taxes for the rich so it can "trickle down" in the same way it failed to in Kansas, and has ALWAYS failed when tried before. The secret to a vibrant economy is a middle class who can spend money. The very rich can't buy enough to keep an economy going because there aren't enough of them. If you really want money to circulate, give a little more to the poor. They have to spend it all to survive. The amount of money swirling around the 1% makes it seem like monopoly money and leads to foolish and dangerous speculation and another recession or worse.
These are updated high and also low average teacher salaries, for the typical 190-workday contract.
Summer teaching and/or coaching would add to these sums:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/14/the-5-highest-and-lowest-paying-states-f...
2
I don't see much sympathy coming from the hideously overpaid teachers here in NY. WVa teachers are getting the short end of the stick for sure, but here in NY I'm fed up with how much the teachers make for how much actual work they do. Six Figures and a luxury retirement for 10mos work a year.
If I had know, I would have gone into teaching back when it was a public service job not the cash cow it has become in NY>
4
Why shouldn't teachers make six figures? It's an incredibly emotionally, intellectually, and physically draining job. Furthermore, educating kids is one of the most important things we do as a society. Teachers work incredibly long hours during the school year, and often spend summers working on continuing education and such. We should be clamoring for the rest of the US to catch up to what NY pays its teachers.
146
Because their benefits add up to nearly double their base salary. They get very good health benefits and a defined pension along with a savings plan. New Jersey and New York have some of the highest property tax rates in the country. Those property taxes pay for public worker's salaries and fringe benefits. These states have tons of debt. I don't begrudge paying teacher's a good salary but there are many middle class families who can't afford to pay an average of $8,000 plus a year in property taxes. Both NY and NJ have pension time bombs. Look it up.
I'm fine with all teachers across the nation making good money, with good benefits.
Now, if only we could relegate legislators to part-time work, at maybe $35k per year max.
5
Is this the case to make pot legal? Seems like the tax revenue may be the stream they are in need of.
9
Perhaps West Virginians should stop voting Republican.
57
It's pathetic that coal miners aren't out in the streets to support these union teachers. Don't they even know their own history, and all the suffering, deaths, and maimings that miners and their families endured to fight for decent wages and working conditions...and dignity?
32
Coal mining is the same as teaching?
When did that happen?
Many of them likely don't know their own history. I like to consider myself relatively knowledgeable when it comes to history, and the first I ever heard about Blair Mountain was on a punk album. The people who write (and select) the history textbooks have a vested interest in letting us forget the crimes committed against labor in America
2
Then, at 11 pm after all the teacher and national media had left the WV capital, the Senate Education Committee passed procedure votes to eliminate the WV Dept. of Education and the to weaken teaching standards. These are mean spirited, bitter people, these Republicans.
104
The start of strikes around the nation. Never fight people who have nothing to loose.
27
Never fight people who have nothing to loose.
--
Yeah, that is how HRC lost, working people refused to support her.
Teachers' unions care about teachers. Which they should. But let's not pretend they have the best interest of children at heart.
3
When something is just true, you don’t have to pretend. They care.
11
I you insinuating that Teachers unions should not press for reasonable pay because that would harm students? What happens when the state can no longer recruit teachers. That will be really bad for students.
32
Unions care about teachers. Teachers care deeply and profoundly about children. The unions are made of teachers, of course they care about children.
4
First, teachers are the future of our country and thanks to them for choosing to contribute in such a valuable manner. Second, WV teachers (according to this article) earn "on average 45, 633" per year - which is equivalent to the median income in WV. By comparison, teachers in MA earn $60k versus a median of $75k. Quoting a statistic of WV being 48th among states is totally misleading. NYT your motive is (as usual) noble, but your use of statistics is (as usual) nonsense. Generally teachers deserve a better deal, but using WV as an example discredits teachers in other states that are genuinely below local norms.
7
Strangely, I have no sympathy for red States or their citizens.
13
You are assuming that everyone in red states thinks or acts the same way,..wrong! Some of us are swimming against the current, even though it looks like a fatuous quest, but we are here.
29
There are people everywhere with whom we can make common cause, and plenty of others who might be persuadable. This attitude doesn't really help.
1
One of the teachers noted in your story makes a mere 39 thousand after having been an educator for 19 years and has to work additional hours at a checkout counter to make ends meet. This is an utter disgrace. This is class war perpetratd by the rich against everyone else.
It is high time that this country roundly and fiercely reject the conservative consensus that was born in 1980 and has been ruining this country ever since. In 1980, when Ronald Raygun took the throne, he capitalized on an idea that the Republicans have been making hay with ever since. The idea went like this:
"The liberals and do-gooders gave everything to the unions and minorities and nobody wants to work and taxes are too high and liberal decadence has filled our enonomy with rot. We need to get rid regulations, makes taxes go lower and then still lower and push the country back to the way we were in 1910, when people worked in sweatshops for 12 and 14 hours a day."
Because of that rightwing nonsense, some schools are only open 4 days a week and universal education -- a fundamental underpinning of democratic life -- is under attack. Because of the right wing nonsense, the chasm between the rich and poor is bigger than at any time since 1929.
The war perpetrated by the rich shouldn't be a one way street. One of Abbie Hoffman's slogans was "Eat the Rich." Cannibalism is a bit too extreme for me, but you get the picture.
80
SO proud of them. I hope they will consider registering and voting Democratic in 2018 and 2020. Republicans are doing everything they can---including thwarting Obama's nomination to the Supreme Court and waiting for Trump to put his ultra-conservative pick in place---to kill unions. Unions are the only possible protection from greedy corporate and government entities. And ONLY Democrats honestly support unions.
29
Education has, for some reason, become anathema for Republican elected officials. It's time to vote all of them out in 2018.
64
It's easy to see why. The states with a well-educated populace are blue states. The GOP is a strange amalgam of oligarchs and poorly educated ordinary people. Better schools would lose them a lot of followers.
1
Yeah, and how did they pay for the raise? That’s right, taking the funds from Medicaid. This was no win.
5
Today I heard a CNBC interview with Morgan Stanley Chairman and CEO James Gorman. Responding to a question about tariffs, he said trade deficits were not the problem; FISCAL deficits were the problem. In other words, now that my bank and I have our tax cut, it's the job of the rest of you to be fiscally responsible. So get ready for cuts in Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security and other important public efforts if the Republicans stay in power.
5
As a long-time educator I have an enormous amount of respect for how these teachers came together and stood their ground. The low wages earned by these professionals are an embarrassment. The paltry 1% "raise" that was initially offered is even more of an embarrassment. It appears that a whole lot of "dumb bunnies" finally got their (Governor) Justice!
20
Nobody cares if teachers are squeezed and leave.
People with influence (read money) send their kids to private school.
10
So the WV legislature saw a 1% pay raise as "fiscally responsible"? When, when does "socially responsible" enter the picture? Any teacher who can, leaves WV - those who can't, spend their time and energy working second jobs at Hardees. Hey Oklahoma, how is a 4 day school week socially responsible in any way??
Conservatives have worked since the '70s to diminish public education: school vouchers, legalizing truancy through the ruse of home schooling, charter schools, and insultingly low teacher pay and terrible benefit levels. They KNOW that poor education works to the benefit of the GOP. Look at where Trump won big and where he lost: Where spending on education has gone down Trump's support is strong, and vice versa. Four decades of work by the GOP has led to this end.
Congratulations and Thanks to the WV teachers who fought this fight. Respect to the heritage of WV miners, those who stood together against the unjust powers.
By the way, WV health care provider, teachers are on their feet all day long and don't need that fact to be verified by a "wellness app". This reminds me of the parent-teacher conference in my first year of teaching when a father grabbed my hand and shouted "Let me see your hands, I WORK for a living." When he saw the scars and blisters that covered my hands that were due to my rebuilding of a falling down house which was all I could afford on my $7000/yr salary (in '73) he, at least, had the class to apologize. Your turn, WV legislature.
72
Thanks for suggesting the phrase "legalized truancy".
9
Yes, wellness app. Was the health care company ready to buy a smart phone for each teacher and pay the monthly bill for service?
5
When the state legislature grudgingly voted teachers a raise, one of its leaders just couldn't help himself from threatening to take it out of medical care for the poor. In West Virginia, like most states, teachers could be paid quite well, never mind enough to live on, if the state simply reversed recent tax favors to wealthy corporations perfectly able to pay their fair share. Please, spare us the "oops, no money" scam!
47
West Virginia is coal country. Those jobs are disappearing and won't come back. The solution is education. The next generation must learn higher level skills.
Support education or become extinct
23
The solution is acquiring modern industries, something in which W.Va. politicians have no interest. Then it's time to talk about raising the educational level. Without jobs that use education, there's not much motivation or return, given that guns and embryos are more important to some people than civics.
7
The solution is an exodus to where the jibs are. I have no more sympathy for a multi-generation West Virginian who can't afford to stay in the state due to a lagging economy than I do for a Brooklynite who can't afford rising rents due to gentrification.
1
For whatever reason, successful strikes by public school teachers often indicate inflation is coming. About time. Let's hope it's modest, though.
4
That the stability as well as quality of educational institutions in this country are so clearly and absolutely determined by money ought to be the basis for multiple class action suits, not just mass strikes.
It's a massive tragedy and waste that learning goes begging, while weapons makers and the MIC have dollars falling out their ears while they tear up our world.
14
I find it very difficult to feel sympathetic for folks in this position. They vote Republican year after year. This should be an eye-opener for others in their position.
9
They don't vote Republican year after year, except at the presidential level - and even that only started in 2000. This is a really recent phenomenon.
WV's state legislature was solidly Democrat until 2014, and they actually did elect a Democrat for governor in 2016 only to have him renege and flip parties a few months after getting into office.
Until very recently, the state was a bastion of blue-collar union support. But private sector unions were destroyed as they were everywhere, and the Republicans hit them very hard with cultural appeals (guns, coal, etc) as the Democrats became the party of bicoastal educated elites and stopped trying to appeal to blue-collar whites. Eventually that appeal worked - but it took a long time.
In 2000-14 there was a stable equilibrium where the state party could be at odds with the national Democrats on most social and environmental issues, but still solidly pro-worker. But with increasing national polarization, and with the general bloodbath that befell the Democrats at every level after Obama was elected, it has become impossible for state parties to keep this up. So WV, KY, and AR - formerly state-level Democratic strongholds - finally did all flip in 2014-15.
Keep in mind, of course, the teachers probably voted overwhelmingly Democrat even in 2016, at least at the state level. Teachers as a whole are a Democrat-leaning constituency, which is part of the reason that Republicans target them.
15
Scott Walker is a head case.
The persons teaching his children do, orders of magnitude, much more for the future of Wisconsin than Scott Walker does.
And he makes considerably more than $45k a year -- at taxpayer expense.
11
I’m a public school teacher but all I could think about while reading this was all the money we waste on military spending in this country. It seems kind of pointless defending something with priorities like that, it has no real future anyway.
39
But Trump needs more bombs and bombers to feel good. You wouldn't deny your cute little president, would you?
3
Plus $30 million for a parade.
1
I heard a West Virginia teacher on the news tonight speaking about how he works two jobs and still qualifies for federal food assistance because his pay is so low.
Teachers are the heroes of society. It is shortsighted and foolish that we aren't investing in our children's future. There is no money for teacher's pay, no money for school supplies -- but, oh, suddenly there is money to buy teachers guns and ammo?
If this country doesn't locate our moral compass soon, we will be truly, totally lost in the wilderness.
123
This is about politics, pure and simple, not morals. It's not Democrats that have consistently attacked unions, publicly funded education for all and teachers for the past 40 plus years!
A few years ago PBS Newshour covered WV schools having trouble hiring teachers, not just because of the pay but because WV did not have enough people qualified to teach. This did not just mean being certified but more so because of not having an educated population. The segment then dealt with the issue of the crumbling roads, bridges and decrepit housing which was not very enticing for anyone with a proper education to move there to teach.
It is outrageous how WV has become the poster child for white America "heartland" while they did not make any priorities to take care of themselves other than gripping about the mines closing, or the fact that most of mining is automated with minimal need to miners. Now it is ground zero for the opiate "crisis", which would not be given that label "crisis" if the ground zero was Camden or Compton.
So now WV teachers "won" but your article fails to mention that lawmakers say they would pay for the raise by cutting state spending by $20 million, taking funds from "general services and Medicaid". Those general services ironically include state assistance for college aid, leading to a continual deficit of educated people in the state to teach. Medicaid cuts? Who is supposed to pay for the treatment and livelihoods of the opiate addicts? And what about those miners we are supposed to feel sorry for who refuse to consider that most people end up having to change jobs and relocate a few times in life? Let nature take WV back. WV National Park
14
They need to pay more in taxes or admit that the education of their children doesn’t matter. It’s about values.
11
What do you want? It's a poor state. Coal was what they had for so long, but even then the state was never rich.
The Republicans have carefully cultivated a nihilistic view that all government actions are incompetent, inefficient, and illegitimate. It began (at a minimum) with Reagan's statement that the most feared words are: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." The von Mises institute is "inspiring an ever-growing generation of people who are proud enemies of the state, and radicals for capitalism." (that's from an email a week ago) The democrats have done nothing to counter this ideology, and so, here we are.
10
At an average nationwide of over $60,000 for 180-190 days is not that bad. It's not that competitive to get a teaching degree. If standards were raised, the job would pay more as well as be more prestigious. The question is, do we want to funnel more talented people into engineering, science, medicine, etc. or teaching? And of course your real estate taxes will skyrocket to pay for higher quality... To be honest, many teachers that I know started out as a different major that was too hard and went to a general ed major. So, unfortunately, if standards were raised, many current teachers would not qualify. Fortunately, we could lower legal bar standards, so they can be lawyers!!
3
Really ? And how do you think people become engineers and doctors ? Buy a few books online ? They're taught by teachers, my friend. People who dedicate their lives to helping others learn and achieve their goals need to be paid professional wages. Period.
1
There's a shortage of teachers, so raising the requirements, in the absence increased pay, would shrink the supply even further. You seem to think they don't even deserve what they get. You couldn't be more wrong.
1
Lindsey,
$60,000 is after decades of service. Starting wage with advanced degree's is in the low $30,000.
If education is sooo easy, "not that bad", why is there an attrition rate of over 40% in the first 6yrs? Could it be that education is hard?
Yet, for a "not that competitive" job, 'merica having a sever shortage of educators across the nation as well as incoming teachers? Could it be the condescending, anecdotal snark, such as exhibited here? This idea that education is easy and talent isn't needed? Such a brainless career even the drop-out lawyers could do it. Ha, ha.... yeah, no.
Get into the classroom, it will be an eye opener, and one may gain a new respect from the experience, and those that educate our future.
Kinda' says a lot about those that think "prestigious" comes from the $$$ made.
2
Politicians mock government employees, but forget they themselves are paid with public funds. Teachers are the lifeblood of our education system. They deserve our respect and our support via salaries and benefits commensurate with the important work they do.
10
In Conn the average public school teacher in Conn makes 78000 a year with a relatively easy to achieve degree and summers off. The average household income in Conn is 74000 Since everyone I know takes home work at night, monitors email and gets a masters I am not impressed by the taking home work and getting a masters argument. Teachers can't get fired after 4 years of tenure, and get an average pension at age 60 of $57800 if they retired last year. That is equivalent to an annuity of about 1.1 million dollars(making every newly retired teacher a millionaire) which is about triple the max social security of 39k at age 67(far less money far later). What on Earth does a teacher have to complain about..I make essentially the same money with 2 masters in IT and have to retrain myself every 5 years and I am one of the lucky ones. I imagine in West Virginia a teacher's relative pay is far higher than the average ave household West Virginia pay of $43800. Overpaid govt and public educators and unfunded pensions are killing this country
4
alan, go to Somalia. It has conditions you would like. No teacher pay at all. No wasted money on education.
19
They are the lowest paid of those with BA’s and Master’s Degrees
8
Teachers have negotatied their compensation so they have less salary up front, more cash later in the pension. Said pension includes very good and cheap medical by the way, which the other nongovt' employees with BA and Master's degrees will be paying a fortune for out of their savings if they retire before eligible for Medicare --and that won't be before age 52 like most teachers. SS retirement is moving to 67, withdrawal from IRA is 59.5.
I"d like to see the NYT compare the teacher retiree medical bennies with that of the exchange plans, for the benefit of those who can't do the math well enough to understand what annual the max family deductible and the premiums in the AFA, nongrandfathered plans are doing to nonteacher families. Also show us what employers are giving 4% raises across the board while absorbing all increase in medical costs. A community needs to take care of everyone, not force part to belt tighten so far that they can't feed their children.
This is an important milestone since it happened in a southern state. We may be seeing a tipping point in US attitudes and policies towards bottom-line government. We have plenty of money in the US to support the things that matter like education, health care and the environment. It is the selfish, short-sighted policies of the politicians (funded by conservative and mean-spirit groups) that prevents to reallocation of resources to the things that matter long-term. Taxpayers have, for example, paid $10Min the first year to shuttle the President back and forth to his golfing resort.
12
To become really good at your teaching job, it requires about 5 years' experience. The pay is so low that many teachers leave after a year or two because they can make more money elsewhere. Good schools keep and value their teachers. Mediocre and bad schools have a revolving door.
8
For a very short period I was the interim director of a private school where the board's hostility to our amazing and much loved teachers was shocking. I worked to support and protect them, making sure they and assistants got raises, and promoting their hard work in the face of snarky, ill-informed comments. Just over a year later I was removed from the position and replaced by a person who fit the board's business minded vision. As much as I love the teachers and students, to this day I can't recommend the school.
If you don't appreciate and do everything you can to reward talented educators for their work, you don't care about their students, period.
19
The problem is that good teachers are underpaid and bad teachers shouldn't be paid at all.
3
David:
You are quite right. But teachers any test of their abilities, or God forbid their knowledge is a horrible imposition. Probably sexist as well.
And yet West Virginia, one of just four states that gave President Carter its electoral votes as recently as 1980, today is ignored in Presidential elections because it is so reliably red. Maybe a re-assessment is underway.
5
This could motivate and give courage to workers in other right-to-work (for less) states.
12
If you like investing in millionaires and fear-and-loathing, West Virginia, then keep voting Republican.
If you like investing in education, children, the future, affordable healthcare, worker rights, and non-millionaires, then vote Democratic.
You've been conned, Trumped, duped by Republicans since the year 2000, the year you flipped from a Democratic to a Republican-voting state.
Presidential Year- GOP%-Dem%
2016 69% 26%
2012 62% 35%
2008 56% 42%
2004 56% 43%
2000 52% 46%
Stop voting for 'beautiful' lumps of fatal Republican coal.
Support your local teachers and average West Virginians -- Vote Democratic on December 6 2018.
77
I doubt that it is just the start, but others might try to do the same thing.
2
Oh, they will. They don't even have a union in West Virginia and they pulled this off. It could happen anywhere!
For generations, Americans reaped the benefits of the exclusion of women from the workforce. But we got great teachers and nurses, on the cheap. Women like Sheryl Sandburg, Ginni Rommeti, Hillary Clinton... in the 1940s and 50s, they were public school teachers.
Now that women are fully mobile in the economy, we want to have the same great teaching with the same low wages of the past. This defies all logic. I am a low-tax Republican, but I understand the laws of economics in the labor force; if you want great teachers, you've got to pay the wages that great women (and men) command.
It's more imperative than ever that our future workforce acquires advanced skills, and yet we pay our most experienced teachers like entry-level corporate workers. We should be doubling their pay, not drawing lines in the sand over inflationary salary increases.
248
Low-tax Republicans should be for private schools for the affluent and underfunded schools for everyone else. This will give their kids an advantage in competing for the best jobs. Workforce education should be done by employers, who will not waste resources on imparting skills not directly relevant to the job. To do this, they will have to have some sort of indenture system so that the workers they train cannot leave for a different employer who will pay them more because that employer is a cuckoo-employer who does not do training. Lacking broad-based education, these workers can be manipulated by quality public relations.
This will give us the sort of stratified society in which taxes are low and businessmen and investors run things. Their goal will not be to create the most affluent society, but rather the society whose wealth is concentrated with those whose enterprise means that they deserve it, as their PR has it.
14
Around here we have a waiting line to be school teachers, why would we even consider doubling their pay?
3
Low-tax Republicans should understand that you get what you pay for. If we want better schools we have to pay for them. That requires a responsible government that that has policies other than cutting taxes.
12
Our failure to support quality public education over the last decades is weakening this country. As automation and global economics reduce the number of well-paying factory jobs that require only a high school diploma, our workers need the training to transition to other work. Without strong basics, reading/writing/math, it's that much more difficult to cross that divide. We need to hire more teachers, pay them more and give them the tools and schools to teach effectively. A single F-35 costs almost $100m, so somehow we can find the money. Can we find the commitment?
70
As long as there is work that does not demand advanced skills, because jobs have been carefully designed so that semiliterates can master them in a few weeks (chain restaurants and fast food places are good at this), there will be a need for such people, and they are liable to be happier if they are not overqualified.
So, sdavidc9, why are we importing tech workers from India? Or do you agree it's only because they're much cheaper than the home-grown people they replace?
4
You assume our entire population will be able to be trained to do other work. Probably a quarter of our population is going to be noncompetitive with automation for any job in the next decade.
i'm always struck by the disparities between good school systems and their not-so-good brethren. in general, teachers in the former exemplify the values of the profession -- love for the students, selfless work (often for free), and intellectual integrity. however, their counterparts in bad schools often seem unqualified, unmotivated, and only nominally professional. In some systems, teachers take 100% of available sick days. understandably, they're exposed to a lot of germs; still, what does that say about their commitment to the job?
the profession deserves and requires greater respect, better conditions, and higher pay, but it's also long overdue for top to bottom restructuring. the american auto industry was blessed with a near-death experience that forced it to change; public education may not be so lucky.
7
The commitment of teachers in bad schools to their jobs perhaps equals the commitment of their communities to them. Greater respect for teachers can come from greater respect for authority figures in general, but could also come from greater respect for curiosity and learning.
10
You may want to consider that the not so good schools systems have the following problems: a population of poor children who often suffer from a high degree of childhood upheavals (evictions, food scarcity, loss of a parent, violent neighborhoods) that make them more fragile, alongside a lack of social workers, special ed teachers and mental health professionals. This means that everyday classroom teachers spend much more time on classroom management and have a much higher proportion of children who require
considerable extra help than the better school districts, and are probably under much more stress.
Stress equals health problems of all sorts.
These teachers are struggling and exhausted, not lazy and useless.
Teachers are the low-paid workhorses of a top-down public school system in total disarray and yet THEY are always the ones we blame for the problems.
26
What is a “bad school”?
1
West Virginia teachers are showing the labor movement the way! Congratulations on effective bargaining, even if it meant having to strike (which is always risky, since the public can turn against you). You are brave folks, and we applaud you!
105
Sure they are, unfortunately in most ways union workers can be replaced in some way.
You wish, vulc.
3
I want the teachers of West Virginia to know that I fully support them. And I hope their stand will galvanize a nation wide discussion of and subsequent action on the importance of teaching. Teachers deserve respect, good compensation, and support from parents and the community. The way we treat teachers today is a reflection of how little we value education in this country. We continue to do so at our peril.
HATS OFF TO TEACHERS!
287
Teacher colleges are producing 15 graduates for every one opening.
Start looking for replacements. It won't be difficult.
2
I just want to add to that the fact that I, too, support the teachers. Anyone who has to battle as these people did for a grudging, semi-respectable pay raise after having had none for four years deserves plaudits and a lot more. I should also say that I'm not and, at my age, never will be a parent, but we all must recognize that the students they educate grow up to either enrich or impoverish our communities in all kinds of ways. You can't live in this society without either reaping the benefits of good teaching or suffering from the results of poor public-education. I hope they don't have to wait another four years in West Virginia for the next increase and -- please God! -- that they don't have to beg and strike for it.
10
I totally agree, but I would add; bring back civics as a required subject for graduation. The number of people in this country, including our president, who have no idea how our government is constructed is shameful. Civics used to be taught, but has fallen out of curriculums in favor of "language arts" and math taught to maximize students' scores on tests.
1
Our many red state politicians don’t do infrastructure spending and that includes education. Libertarian governance and trickle down economics doesn’t work, unless you mean trickle into the pockets of the wealthy.
100
Teachers are much more important than politicians and, unlike politicians, actually make important contributions to society.
Governors and legislatures in republican states LOVE to talk austerity and lower taxes, but I've never seen them cut their own pay or perks.
181
That $500 penalty for not tracking your steps is one of the most disgusting things I've ever heard. It's not like the schools are paying for teachers' smart phones. It's probably healthier not to even own one.
140
Talk about Big Brother! I knew that these health and HR managers were itching to control folks when they started "wellness" programs in the workplace.
8
Are West Virginia legislators penalized for not tracking their steps? No, they are being rewarded for covering their tracks.
4
When voters continually vote elect people from a political party that does not believe in: a strong public education system, clean water, clean air, fair wages, and healthcare, but does believe in massive tax cuts to the rich and culture wars, you get West Virginia.
It would be great if ALL public school teachers taught their students the skills and importance of critical thinking too.
160
The teachers ought to have demanded 10% and free healthcare.
This comment like many others assume that the teachers vote Republican like the rest of the state.
That's ok Alex, your example suffices. We appreciate how frequently you volunteer to provide such variegated examples.
2
A good start, but West Virginia teachers will need to keep the pressure on next year and thereafter. I’ve lived in Oklahoma for 35 years, and our boom-and-bust economy has meant that in a good year, state employees might get 5%, but then go 5 years before receiving another increase. Whether you get it all in one year or dribble it over 5, it still doesn’t keep pace with inflation. The struggle will not end until society realizes that education is valuable, and restructures priorities to reflect that value.
244
WV lawmakers say they would pay for the raise by cutting state spending by $20 million, taking funds from state college aid for students, Medicaid, and general services. Great plan for the opiate ground zero, workers who have no real chance of getting their outdated jobs back unless they learn technology and being the state with THE LEAST amount of college grads at 19% - below Mississippi and Alabama.
38
As solar, wind, and electric cars start to send oil the way of coal, Oklahoma can join West Virginia in depopulating. As their state nickname signifies, Sooners are dedicated to beating the system rather than improving it; if the system is not doing well, smart people leave.
8
When might that be? And what about say planes?