To all well-meaning isolationists: What are the frontline states supposed to do? Build walls? Sink the refugee boats?
To all friends of deportation: Where are you going to deport the migrants to? Libya, where they are enslaved? Seems that has already been tried. How about the US of A is taking more? The country is a major player in the region and should take some responsibility for the consequences of its actions.
Germany has to much power in the EU and needs their wings clipped.
3
Italy's problems are of its own making. The two issues described here are 1. Austerity this is a consequence of Italy choosing to join the Euro. Inside the Euro member states cannot print their own currency and so have to pursue structural reforms. The ECB led by an Italian called Draghi is non the less pursueing a program of negative interest rates and quantitative easing which is basically all the stimulus the ECB can provide to help Italy. Zero and negative interest rates do not help Northern creditor nations it helps debtor nations like Italy. Second migration. This is a consequence of Italy joining the borderless Schengen zone. This mandates that asylum seekers apply for asylum in the first state they enter. To avoid so-called asylum shopping and migrants applying multiple times in different member states. It also mandates that members police their outer non-Schengen border. Here as well Europe is going far beyond and helping Italy police and process incoming migrants which is not required in the treaties. So this idea that Europe is not helping or is to blame is simply false.
1
I am from Europe and pro EU. It’s interesting to read so many anti EU comments.
What many forget - all the below average regions of Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Hungary hugely took and take advantage as they are all „takers“ - they get billions of euros in infrastructure support - from „rich“ „giver“ countries in the EU like Germany.
Who ever has been in Ireland, Portugal or Sicily 20 years ago and now knows how much these areas have improved thru EU money
2
In that light, the NYT pick about home-grown Hungarian tomatoes is a hilarious joke. The Visigrad Four are hugely benefiting from access to the EU without being in the Euro Zone and EU investments bringing jobs to their countries. Alas, they are complaining the loudest if they are pressed to contribute the smallest bit.
And then this complaining about 'usurpation' by Brussels. Every member is way more an independent nation than the states in the union over here. No member was forced to join and, as we shall see with Brexit, they can always leave. Brussels does not know a Jefferson Beauregard the Third who is going to muscle his way in to enforce his reading of the law with the help of his federal agents.
1
I hope to goddess that "the idiot in charge" does not try to take credit for this election, too. This immigration hatred is a long standing problem all over the world and it is not the first time it has been so. This too will pass.
The thing is: Italy functions and has always functioned without a functioning government. The current mess is nothing unusual for Italy. Italy is a great example that when a society works on a micro level with a string unifying culture - the macro level (government) isn’t really that important.
5
So true. Despite of a seemingly chaotic political process and a pertually 'impoverished' South, Italy commands the third largest economy in the Euro zone.
The biggest takeaway is an anti-mass-migration and anti-bureaucratic-EU sentiment.
-In June 2016 - the citizens of the UK voted for Brexit
-In Sept 2017 - Germans just barely re-elected Angela Merkel, who only on 4 March 2018, > 5 months after the election, received a green light to form a coalition government, but she is very weakened, and will not have a real mandate; and the anti-immigration AfD will be her opposition party, and is ascendant.
-In Oct 2017 Austrians voted for an anti-illegal-immigration platform.
-In March 2018 Italians voted for an anti-illegal-immigration platform and an EU- skeptical platform
-Look for the same trend in national elections in Sept 2018, in Sweden.
-looks like Poland and Hungary, who are undeservedly maligned by the EU, will be keeping good company, as the anti-mass-migration trend only grows
with each democratic election.
14
Only that any asylum seeker has the right to due process on arrival. Here in the US due process is meted out behind bars, whereas in the EU asylum seekers are free to roam. Host countries are free to facilitate the roaming.
The "illegal" part about the migration is that the frontline countries let the asylum seekers pass without due vetting process. Unfortunately the EU does not possess any legal mechanism to enforce the immigration laws all members agreed to.
4
When did the media decide that fascists are now to be known as 'populists'.
3
If botched US foreign policies had not turned Libya into a failed state that facilitated this migration, Italy's elections may have had a different result.
9
This is not Rocket Science- all you need do is look at the EUs unemployment figures particularly for Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and any former Soviet countries...and then combine that with unchecked migration of millions of unskilled, semi-literate workers who need government aid..and Voila! The surge in nationalistic parties. The EU is bogged down in a bureaucracy so severe and aided by Germany's punitive stance toward fellow members who borrow of money - that it can't deal with economic issues and is completely inept at dealing with migration. I am not surprised by the election results in Italy or Austria or Poland - or even Germany because it seems people are tired of having bureaucrats living in the Brussels bubble dictate to them how to live (and govern).
14
As Italian I am quite happy with the result of the election. The center left parties in charge of Italy for the past 5 years ended up producing an anemic recovery, typical nepotism and damaged itself with internal fights. It is an excellent example of democracy.
12
The immigrant/refugee problem can be characterized as the people of higher ability want to be good people and play the role of the do-gooders. So they can brag about their being progress and all. At the same time the impact of the immigrants/refugees is born mostly by the people at the lower echelon of the society. They don't have the ability to handle such a big change. The politicians favoring immigration often appear to be more concerned with the immigrants/refuges then their fellow citizens. So the discontent of the populace is understandable and it's only a matter of time boil over happens. Yes, there is humanitarian aspect concerning the issue. But I think many people do not believe they and their country owe any foreigners an entrance into their country. That should be the starting point when designing a policy for the immigrant/refugee problem.
13
A pretty consistent lesson to be taken away from history; if idealism put into policy starts to negatively impact people's daily lives, no amount of academia or virtue-signaling will prop up that ideal (for very long) until the people get sick and tired of dealing with the consequences of all those high-minded theories and start to vote for people who promise decisive change. The scary thing isn't that parties like this are now getting elected all across Europe. The absolute scariest thing is that many people not only saw this coming and loudly predicted it, but those same people can see where this is going, and we ain't seen nothing yet... The only policy solution offered by the 'other side' of Europe's rising right is just more ivory-tower sneering about 'tolerance', 'diversity' and 'xenophobia'. That might hold the line in places where the people remain neatly extricated from the consequences of said policies in their daily lives, but it's not going to last in the countries where the boats land and that particular flavor of idealism now wanders around the formerly safe and clean streets.
25
These sentiments towards illegals are rapidly rising within the US too.
The DACA fiasco is a perfect example. As is the election of Trump.
I am tired of the delusional PC left marginalizing anyone who doesn't agree with their open borders, it's a Disney small world, come one come all mentality. They never live anywhere near or work or worship with immigrants and refugees. Way too much NPR infused tripe.
5
The force driving majoritarian democracy for the last century has been the new money available to governments made available by economic growth. When more cash became available democratically elected government officials were able to siphon off a few percentage points of growth they could deliver to their citizens who, for one reason or another, could not keep up. That is, they paid some losers to shut up and spend the welfare check and they paid some strivers to hang in and try harder. But as jobs have shifted to Asia, there is increasingly less need for European "left behinds" just as European elites foolishly welcomed more marginally qualified people to migrate, unwelcome, to compete for scarce jobs and benefits. Any reasonable analyst would rightfully question the rationality and/or morality of those who started the whole foolish process. Happily, many Italian voters chose reason over imagery.
15
Sooner or later - ITALEXIT
12
In a country that has long suffered from a chaotic bureaucracy, heavy unemployment, and severe economic and infrastructure pressures, the migrant crisis has driven these existing issues to the breaking point. Italy carries a disproportionate burden in receiving waves of refugees, carrying out rescues at sea, and dealing with the administrative and practical horrors of death, disease, and overcrowding while France and other countries turn the other way.
Italians have vented their frustration at the polls, and this vote is the result. How will the rest of the EU, which hung Italy out to dry, be affected by it? Where can Italy turn for help?
12
This chief economist - should have hedged with "on one hand; but on the other hand" when he talks about using immigrants as first casualty of frustration. He would be taken as a serious economist. Otherwise, his comment quoted here is - makes him a political hatchet man.
Let's get this straight. These are not immigrants in a traditional sense of the word where they followed laws of a country they are immigrating to.
These are gate crashers who knew how to take advantage of well meaning folks in Europe and Italy in particular.
I have been to Italy many times. And have some close friends of many years in Milan.
They are all very educated and cultured, well traveled. So, a racial bias is not something any one would accuse them of.
But even they have had enough of these uncontrolled gate crashers.
Their ancestral village where they have properties have become unlivable or unpleasant as their Italian government took over abandoned houses and put these gate crashers.
Result is tension, violence and drug dealings as these gate crashers and local Italian authorities knew little about each other.
A big city like Milan is no exception. My friends have changed their life styles so as not to be victims.
Gate crashers - not vetted for their past - are the ones that Italians are expressing outrage over. And not immigrants.
21
"growth is not benefiting the young and the middle class"
That is true in the US too. The importance deserves emphasis. It is not enough to have some overall growth in the total economy, if it does not reach the people and places in need. They'll vote their distress, not the alleged small growth.
14
The most serious US trade issues are with China, which alone represents most of our trade imbalance.
Yet China is a net steel importer, on a very large scale. In the mix, it is only 11th on the list of those exporting to the US, and it buys in far more than it sells out.
4
Hopefully the Democrats learn from these lessons, but unfortunately I'm sure they won't.
16
It’s part of a world wide rejection of much of the existing liberal capitalist world order. Hate it or not it’s real. “Mainstream” politics has better be learning or we are going to have a large reactionary disaster. I’d say if there was ever any question that many people everywhere just don’t believe the center left has their interests firmly in mind, there is no lack of evidence of their reaction now. In addition, traditional governments are challenged by this emerging commercial- technical internationalism and are increasingly reactionary as well, becoming more jealous of more globalized power. Together, bottom up and top down, there is apparently a crisis of democracy.
14
So what's the root of the migration problem? Failed American intervention in the Middle East, failed American intervention Afghanistan. We have an endless raft of military leaders unable or unwilling to tell the political leaders what's what. Solve that problem.
7
...and the US is not even willing to accept as refugees those who worked for them.
7
The root of the migration problem is the same bifurcated root that it has always been.
One fork is overpopulation, competition over ever-dwindling resources, and most land owned by the few. This creates pressure to emigrate.
On the other side of the root, in the destination country, the rich and the well heeled, plus employer groups, want to employ workers as cheaply as possible.
5
That's a common refrain, but highly arguable. Also, proposing soaring macro-solutions to people who are suffering problems in their face, now, is not compelling policy.
1
This vote will change nothing in Brussels (or Berlin for that matter.) The EU elites and bureaucrats will simply scoff at the Italians (‘ How could they be so stupid!’) ignore the message from Italy and continue to march Europe into oblivion.
19
Actually italians that voted for the lega-nord were just 16%, xenophobic party is Casa Pound and it got less than 1% so it's out of parlament, as usual.
People did not vote for middle / moderate because it was clear that P.Democratic was going to mess up with Berlusconi as they did before, so the first pary with 36% is 5 Star wich main focus is to clean up italian political casta.
And that was mostly a rage vote becouse it was obvious that with 2 coalition (left and right, the latter a mix up of complete different viewpoints + Berlusconi ;) ) it was impossible for just one party to gain the required 40%. That's mostly because PD and Berlusconi crafted a system were no one could win between the 3 so they could later up mix up and take power.
So italians punished both, but that's hardly like Lega and 5 Star won anything as they can't mix up and gover together. No body has won it's just Renzi + Berlusoconi defeat.
8
People are scared about globalization as it is a huge antidote to the traditionalist & nationalist world order that we've been under for a long time. Frankly, this is the twenty first century. The world is becoming more interdependent & this leads to more immigration. It is impossible to stay homogeneous & it is an outdated concept. Multiculturalism, diversity, globalization & one planet are the future.
2
" It is impossible to stay homogeneous & it is an outdated concept. Multiculturalism, diversity, globalization & one planet are the future."
Apparently no one has told the East Asian nations this. Nationalism isn't going away any time soon.
14
The huge migrations effecting Italy have nothing to do with globalization. They are the result of the war in Syria and civil wars and poverty in Africa.
4
Tell that to the Chinese.
4
Check out some actual, local opinions from real people on Twitter, forums etc. about life in a “point of entry” nation in the EU.
You’d be concerned too.
17
One of the parties that had a good night was the "Brothers of Italy", which is the name given to the Fascist Party. So now we have the return to power of Fascist and Neo-Nazi parties in both Austria and Italy. Berlusconi has called for the expulsion of 600,000 people most of whom would face death upon their return. Meanwhile, Steve Bannon has spent the week in Italy where he has described this turn toward Fascism as "true Trumpism". Given this I am simply amazed at the support for racism and nativism that fills these comments. For those like Bannon who think we are going to follow Italy into Fascism I would suggest that you are mistaken as Ezra Pound was in regard to Mussolini. Personally, I have traveled to Italy 5 times but I will no longer. I think I will be one of many who will boycott this racist state once we see refugees shot by the worthless Italian military.
3
Disrespectful people like you are not welcome in Italy. Please do not come. Ever.
How many refugees are you accommodating right now at your home? If your answer is none then I will be simply amazed by the level of your hypocrisy. How many poor people from around the world should Italy or US let in according to you Mr. Antifa? There is 6 billion of them. How many are you ready to welcome in your home? Be honest with your answer.
8
In the late seventies, Florence was infested with fake gypsy beggars. I used to feel sorry for the kids with their horrendous sores. This was until I saw the whole family being driven back home at the day's end in an enormous Mercedes. Begging, I discovered, was more lucrative than working.
Every person who lives in the nation-state we call Italy is sick of the illegal immigrants. Not just the fascists. Everyone. Only big Italian employers and Italian gangsters welcome illegal immigrants because then they can extort them and enslave them.
29
When people are worried about their livelihoods and families are struggling, it appears these folks believe that their governments should put their citizens first. Otherwise what's the point of citizenship.
32
With all complaints about the EU and its shortcomings, all members know why they are in it, and the Brits are on a painful path to find out.
2
I consider the results of the Italian election to very unsettling. High levels of immigration + pervasive unemployment and underemployment threaten to bring down the established social order in a way that hasn't really been seen in the Western world since the barbarian invasions during the twilight of the Roman empire.
These populist parties are relatively tame, all things considered, but it should be considered extremely alarming to see the fascists not only openly campaigning, but potentially gaining seats in parliament. We are potentially one depression away from seeing them returning in force. That definitely worries me.
5
So many people insist that immigrants are just being used as a scapegoat, that the real problem is low economic growth. But most people dont go out and vote based on statistics like the growth percentage. They vote based on what they see before them with their own eyes, which is more and more unskilled people from faraway places with almost nothing in common with them, who dont speak their language or understand their customs, and who they see as causing problems in their communities. The issue really is immigration; take the voters at their word.
46
And Italian media, largely owned by Berlusconi, have stoked the flames of resentment with near constant “news” of atrocities committed by new arrivals.
One does not turn off a hose at the nossel but rather at the tap. Real solutions will occur by creating opportunity in the home countries of migrants, not by locking the gates.
2
"But most people dont go out and vote based on statistics like the growth percentage. They vote based on what they see before them with their own eyes"
No raises for those with work, bad jobs, and no jobs at all for their kids. Those are what they see with their own eyes, not statistics. If all you see is statistics there, your privilege is blocking your view.
3
Berlusconi does not need to tell us anything. We can see with our own eyes. There are 600k, mostly military-age, foreign men loitering the streets of Italian cities and they are not easy to hide.
7
"neither Berlin nor Brussels seemed to care any more, "
Steven Erlanger, have you been visiting Germany lately?
Germany does care. Dr. Merkel, who almost lost her job over her stance, cared more than many leaders in the EU. The country, which does not know an immigration policy other than for ethnic Germans, has been immensely welcoming to asylum seekers and is providing generous support at great cost to the taxpayer.
Short of half of the asylum seekers are from Syria. Most others hail from countries that are not deemed at war and are suspected to have arrived for purely economic reasons. Many are single young men with no knowledge of the language and no marketable skill of note. All are hoping to find work and bring their families while Germany seems fully booked with job seekers from other EU members. Needless to say that the majority of the asylum seekers will be deeply disappointed. Germany is just not the paradise where milk and honey flow. The natives feel shortchanged which is reflected in recent election results, and the situation is not different in Italy.
10
Italy has elected a disastrous potential coalition? Who else was available?
2
The Achilles' heal of the EU is its unwillingness--given humanistic values--to deal forcefully with the refugee influx and even to alter the principal of free movement of labor within the EU itself (which is a major cause of Brexit). Countries and peoples with millenium-long histories do not like their compositions suddenly and massively altered. Even the US, with a shorter history and a tradition of immigration, is reacting to major migrant flows. Hence, Trump.
The Europeans have to enact a "get tough" policy to prevent those rafts across the Mediterranean from reaching their shores...and hope that word gets around so that more would-be migrants do not attempt the journey.
They need be a trial run to harden their borders before the real crisis breaks: given climate change, within the next 30-40 years we're not going to see just a couple million Syrians seeking refugee asylum, but hundreds of millions of people on the move from agricultural land no longer viable or from coastal areas which have been inundated by rising sea levels. If they are allowed into Europe, its entire political and social system will collapse--the lifeboat swamped by too many passengers.
So this issue is existential for Europe, and even given our privileged geography bordered by two oceans, it could also become existential for the US. It is unpleasant to contemplate, but the developed world is simply going to have to harden its heart against refugees and, above all, economic migrants.
27
This issue is not existential for just Europe, but for most of the species on earth. Too many people are destroying the environment and it will not end well for many simply caught up in the mess we are making.
8
Maybe Italy wants to remain Italian? And what's wrong with that?
There are those who cry about preserving third world heritages but first world people are supposed to give their's all up and away. It's considered evil or bad. Euro centrism is discouraged and considered racist.
Well if white European, Christian culture and countries are so awful why do so many want to want to move to them? There is something to be said about homogeneous societies too, they are more equal, wealthier and the happiest and healthiest countries. Ask the Norwegians, Icelanders, Danes, Swiss, et al.
42
Italy is a country of 60+M people. ¾ of a million migrants in the last few years. These numbers certainly don’t even remotely suggest the end of Italian culture, but those hoping to gain from public misconception (Berlusconi) certainly portrayed it to be.
1
The fact that people take you seriously & propose an conservative ethnostate as an alternative to globalization & multiculturalism is very sad & how much Russian propaganda has seeped into Western culture. Cultures change & demographics change. To suggest to stop these things & attempt to bring back an exaggerated & rosy version of the past that probably never even existed. Homogeneous societies are increasingly a thing of the past. Countries that accept this reality such as Canada, Sweden & Germany are moving ahead while countries that don't such as Russia, China, North Korea, Italy, Poland & Hungary are falling behind. The kind of system you want would turn the West into a white Christian version of North Korea. That's not the society I want to live in. if that's your tea cup, that's fine. Go form your own ethnostate somewhere else or move to Russia or one of the Visegrad countries. But stop trying to hold back the tide of progress & prevent the inevitable in Western countries.
2
Golddigger, good point. Nothing else to add.
"Nor did Brussels help much." Wrong. 100% wrong.
Not only did Brussels not help AT ALL, Brussels also actively prevented all efforts by Italy to help itself.
Yanis Varoufakis is right—the real power in the EU is held by EU economic institutions that are not democratically accountable to voters of any country, or to European voters collectively. The central bankers are bums whom voters do not have the power to throw out. Democracy is failing in Europe because Europe's effective government is not, and never has been, truly democratic.
16
Given that the two biggest parties in Italy are Russian backed & spread Russian propaganda, it's difficult to take Eurosceptics seriously & that includes Mr. V himself. I want a more democratic E.U & the way that the E.U is formed is flawed, but that requires some restructuring & more federalization, not less. Eurosceptics remind me of how so many states rights segregationists in the South & it's not surprising as they share the same politics.
2
If it were not for the EU, millions of more Syrians would be stuck in Greece.
Well said Ivan!
I think back about 40 years. You would see a few illegal immigrants under the porticos of Bologna asking you if you want to buy a pencil.
It is now out of control. You see the riots that have happened at the Milan train station, the take over of a building in Rome, the attacks on police/military when an arrest it attempted to be made.
Its no longer controllable.
How can a country provide for an unlimited number of immigrants when they can barely provide for the existing citizens? How long before you end up creating chaos because you are not addressing a massive influx of immigrants and you are ignoring it?
Other countries (e.g. UK built a wall in France) are taking active steps to prevent more immigrants from entering but Italy, the worse off economically, is expected to absorb them all?
I am not surprised at this vote at all.
42
https://www.google.com/search?q=matteo+salvini+trump&source=lnms&...
just saying.. Trump will have lasting impact that generations of not only Americans but the world will have to live with.
Both Trump & Salvini are very close with Russia & have large chunks of the population that are ignorant of basic civics, politics & lack critical thinking.
2
Italy , Greece have been particularly hit with the massive movement of migrants during a time when these countries are dealing with unemployment and an anemic economy . Of course migration has a hand in it too , people are angry and tired of the corrupt old boys and migrants washing up on their shores.
11
I agree with you, but for slightly different reasons. Corruption has been rife in Southern Europe for centuries & this allowed them to get into the Eurozone when they should've never even been admitted into the Eurozone in the first place. Plus, other countries which can help refugees & migrants out are choosing not to because of their own selfish "I need to take care of my own first!" mentality, putting all of the burden onto a select few Middle Eastern & European countries. That's not right & it's fair. This leads to @ least some elements of the problems that anti immigrant folks talk about. They just have the wrong solution to the problem & have been listening way to much to Poland, Hungary, Russia & China on demographics & how to run your country. These countries are ironically pushing this racialized directionalism in which white christians are painted as the good guys having their lands trampled on by bad darker skinned Muslims.
Except Middle Eastern countries aren’t doing anything (other than Turkey). The wealthiest countries UAE/Sadia Arabia/Qatar haven’t lifted a finger.
1
Europe is split down the center in a faceoff of liberal progressives and nationalists—just like here. It makes me feel less concerned about Trump—at least while I ponder this—and more concerned about the whole “mespuchah”—that is the entire western block, Il mondo Occidentale. We are in grave danger, because of both factions. Somehow Europeans have a much better grasp of reality, in general, than America’s bizarre array of candy-coated, “we are the world” liberal causes alongside the bizarre Trump fanatics and their blind allegiance to whatever Trump says or does. We seem further disabled by the threats to social programs here, whereas even in France eliminating health care and public assistance weren’t even an issue for Marine Le Pen. Our government is closing down a day and an office at a time, whereas Europeans are concerned largely with immigration and proper representation in government.
4
The battle is largely between reactionary regressive-ness, excessive nationalism & cultural, religious & ethnic homogeneity backed by Russia & China vs. liberal progressive-ness, globalization, liberal democracy, multiculturalism, diversity & interconnectedness backed by Canada, the European Union & Japan. The former tends to be supported by those who are old, undereducated, hold authoritarian tendencies & disillusioned young males while the latter is backed by the youth, better educated people & those with less authoritarian tendencies.
I am not on the right. I am not a reactionary.
However, how can I be that upset with a Dane who wants to keep Denmark Danish or an Italian who wants to keep Italy Italian? Those countries weren't built by immigrants.
It should be up to the people of those countries how many immigrants they want to let in. If everyone from across the world moves into Europe, then Europe no longer exists. Italy belongs to the Italians just as Congo belongs to the Congolese or China belongs to the Chinese. What is authoritarian or racist about that?
11
Thank you for reasonable comment.
I am totally on the side of the American "liberal media" like NYT and CNN against Trump. However, in the case of this Italian election, we see an example of you distoring reality for your readers. I am not Italian, but I read Italian and have been reading Italian newspapers. One gets a very different picture from what they are saying. The League and the Five Star Movement are not at all the same thing. The American liberal media (and the German media too!) is spinning a false narrative. You lump Five Star together with the AfD in Germany and En Marche in France. What? Please consider these movements separately. The CNN article today says: "anti-EU, populist and far-right parties like the Five Star Movement and the rabidly anti-immigrant League did very well (32% and 17.5%, respectively)." Even the grammar in this sentence could make the reader believe that the Five Star is far-right. They are not. They say that they are neither left nor right. In fact, they seem to be very diverse and confused. The interesting question is, why are the NYT and CNN inaccurately lumping the Five Star Movement with neo-fascism? This is counter-productive for several reasons. I am pro-Europe, but the EU government and bureaucracy need to change, and there are legitimate grievances with them. An honest serious study of the Five Star Movement could provide some lessons for US liberals wanting to "win back" some of those "deplorable" anti-establishment Trump voters.
31
Thank you! I could have not said it better myself, and yes, I voted for Salvini.
4
This is what happens when you trade your sovereignty to trade agreements. Why a country would give up it's right to self determination to a bureacracy that is even bigger and less interested in you then your own government is puzzling and bound to cause these issue. You say we are having issues here and don't need free migration, Free immigration, or your regulation. Well your just part of the big system so they say no, we will determine your future for you. The modern left has become defacto fascist under the guise of helping you. Instead they decide what is right for you then dictate it through the power of government while ignoring your local or national concerns. I saw this coming years ago when the EU started. The EEC was not a bad idea as that was a trade and economic union but once your sovereignty is usurped by EU overruling your local or national laws you cease to be an independent nation.
13
The Euro crisis is mostly about refuges caused by Iraq war in 2003. Because of their geographical vicinity to Middle East they are paying the price for American adventure in Iraq.
4
I'm italian. The article starts speaking immigrants from "Afghanistan, Libya and Syria", well, the most of our immigrants are from Africa, they cross the sea from Tunisia, Marocco, Libia. Most of them are from Libia, but a significative amout are from Romania, Albania, Marocco, Egitto, Senegal, Tunisia, Nigeria.
The result of anti-immigrant party of the Lega used immigration to increase their followers, BUT the "Movimento 5 Stelle" party success must be saw as a very different reaction of italians from years of corruption in national politic, and the disaster of PD (the democratics, the left party) in this years with Renzi.
37
Italians got tired of corruption so they brought in crooks?
5
Americans got tired of the swamp, so they elected the biggest producer of mouth-sourced methane and his gang of monsters, mobsters and mutants. It all makes perfect sense when you don't think about it and channel your hate towards oppressing the Other.
3
The jury is not in yet about who are the "crooks" except in the closed minds of preconceived ideas.
1
Blaming immigrants for long-standing problems such as an anemic economy, widespread corruption and home-grown criminality is such an easy answer that's it's in use world-wide. Thank goodness for immigration. I can't think of anything else that would work so well to avoid looking in the mirror.
9
No not thank goodness. And you separate legal immigration from illegal? They should make that an SAT question.
2
Really? It is a proven scientific fact that people in the lower demographics in a host country have to compete for low skilled jobs with immigrants and because of the competition, hour wage rates either go lower and/or remain stagnant. I find the lack of empathy towards lower and middle class people in the world truly revolting. But I suspect that for people like you, it would be easy to step over a dying American just to grab a handful of money from the loving hands of corporations and the super rich. Of course, you will give a few dollars to a worthy illegal immigration charity just to make yourself feel better and oh so righteous.
17
There is some truth to what they're saying, but what they should get angry @ is the other countries, mainly Russia, China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, the U.S.A, the U.K, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Cuba & Iran for not taking in their fair share of refugees & leaving the burden on Italy itself.
The Eurosceptics get angry when the E.U can't manage their external borders, while in a very different breath cry that the E.U has way too much power & is run by unelected bureaucrats. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways. But, no, anything that makes the E.U look bad, depending upon the situation, they'll flip their opinion accordingly. Even more ironic too is that many of them are very pro Russia & China & seem to have zero qualms about Vladimir Putin annexing Crimea, backing Assad, a brutal dictator who is murdering much of his own people, or trying to interfere in Western democracies' election processes. It's honestly very pathetic. Fortunately, it looks like the French, Germans, the rest of the founding E.U members except for Italy, Scandinavia & Ireland are given a good enough education because it looks like the Americans, Britons & Italians are so dumbed down, naive & reactionary.
1
Please, please, drop the word "takeaway". It is for food. It is not a substitute for "conclusion."
23
There are 600,000+ illegal migrants in Italy at a time when unemployment is high. The EU sent no help except feebly yelling at the rest of the bloc to take in more unwanted migrants, rather than sending resources to deport the huge number of illegal migrants squatting in empty buildings, train stations, and parks, angry because they feel entitled to jobs housing and medical care, or are owed automatic entry into Britain, Sweden, or Germany, and later to bring in their families.
The rest of the bloc wouldn't cooperate with the EU's attempts to force them to take their "fair share" because those voters don't believe they owe any share at all to people who think they have a right to move in because they got to shore.
The European migration policy is unresolved because the EU won't accept what it really has to do is show it understands the concept "demographic impact", and allocate enough money and resources for big deportations that say the door is closed.
The Austrian and Czech elections last fall also brought in the right. Hungarian elections are in April: Fidesz is 39 points ahead. Sweden's are in September: the Sweden Democrats are on 17.4%.
Every possible mistake in handling migration, culture, and multiculturalism that it could make, let alone at times of economic uncertainty, Europe made. The EU is still blaming churlish citizens instead of its own failures.
Is it surprising that the Populace aren't happy and that the mistakes are bearing unwanted fruit?
68
"Every possible mistake in handling migration, culture, and multiculturalism that it could make, let alone at times of economic uncertainty, Europe made. The EU is still blaming churlish citizens instead of its own failures." BRAVO.
9
Roman Catholic Italy has the lowest unnatural birthrate in Europe. An aging and shrinking nation whose glory resides in a Roman Empire and Florentine Renaissance past that was buried by a diabolical combination of fascism and organized crime.
But for Benito Mussolini there would be no Vatican nation state. But for organized crime there would be no Italian politics nor business. But for Germany, the United Kingdom and France, Italy would matter.
2
So? Italy can let itself die on the vine or let in who it wants. Period.
2
EU Birth rates:
"The highest birth-rates are found in Ireland with 16.876 births per thousand people per year and France with 13.013 births per thousand people per year. Germany has the lowest birth rate in Europe with 8.221 births per thousand people per year."
3
Most articles run in the US about the populist elections throughout Europe seem to mostly or only highlight the issue of immigration. What's left out is the effect the cumbersome and exhausting regulations the EU imposes on its member countries that have a variety of economies, industry and wealth. A country that is in debt, with minimal growth and an ever increasing unemployment rate may want to use a cheaper plastic, or restructure an industry in order to jump start their economy, but Brussels says no, and the country continues to suffer with the additional weight of feeling like their is nothing their elected officials can do to help them. Maybe it's not xenophobia as this author alludes to, but the feeling that Italians know how best to improve Italy, that played the biggest role in this election.
29
I find myself wondering how much of this "Euro-skepiticism" is about the Unions shameful treatment of Greece. A club that treats it's members like that is not one that I would recommend to a friend.
Also, why the assumption that this new populism in Italy will be more hostile toward Brexit? Some one please enlighten me; I just don't see the logic.
6
Uh—are you sure there’s not an excellent reason for that, such as Greece’s malignant corruption, thuggery, and heinous fiscal irresponsibility?
1
Max,
As a citizen of the US, where government by "contribution" is the norm, I'm reluctant to call the Greeks corrupt. I'm not really sure what you mean by "thuggery". And I know that Greece is one of the very few nations in the world to have a budget surplus, which they've maintained since the debt crisis started. And even if you were right I would still warn a friend away.
So you struck out in four.
There are only two answers to the problems of any country, including Italy: world wide birth control and alternative energy. All the rest is talk, talk, talk.
34
And in the long run, deadly talk at that.
Most of Europe has very low birthrates. Europe's problem is replacement, not too many people. It is Africa that needs birth control, not Europe. Germany has the lowest birth rate in the world, lower even than Japan's.
3
Incredible in these comments the amount of solidarity for the anti-immigration vote in Italy. I live in Rome. You know what I have seen? Every day central and western African men posted in front of grocery stores and pharmacies asking for money. Others from the same regions, manipulated by God knows who, selling Kleenex, socks, and lighters on the street. Are these men really threatening the job situation in Italy? I think not. And what about the refugees sleeping every night in the cold outside the Tiburtina train station? I don't see them knocking down the doors at call centers and other low-paying jobs Italians have been putting up with for years now. No, it's the same racist canard that has always functioned when the question of immigration arises. This is pure racism and scapegoating. What I find most disgusting is that not one of the center-left groups came out and defended immigrants and refugees coming to--and mostly just passing through--Italy. Rome has been largely ungoverned for 5 years now and the state of lawlessness is intolerable. But immigrants are not to blame.
8
Laura, your comment is the most sensible on this page. Isn't very hypocritical to vote for parties that have known cozy & uncritical ties with a hostile foreign power while degrading your opponents as anti Italian/American/British? The likes of Salvini want to make Italy white again just like Trump. They're mainly supported by old white people & working class people who blame people with darker skin from them for supposedly having their jobs, livelihoods & cultures taken away from them. Putin & Jinping must be very pleased with the Italian results.
And you don't see the quality of life in Rome remotely degraded by African men begging for money everywhere and sleeping in train stations and parks? Their situation is of their own making: they assumed they could shove their way in and get what they need from the host population. "Just passing through" - to where? France? Belgium? Great Britain? Sweden? There are laws, treaties, conventions: Italy cannot just pass them on northward. How about the brisk business being done in fake ID papers and passports?
Why is there this insane assumption that anyone who gets there should stay there?!
14
Elizabeth, well, these migrants tend to come from very poor countries with lots of over population issues. These people are from countries with high unemployment rates & are fed up with their situations. So, they flee to Europe for a better life & hopefully a job. Telling them to go back home is very shortsighted, bigoted & selfish. It is also selfish of other countries like Trump's America, Japan, Russia, China & many other places not to help out the burden of taking in refugees. This burden is placed solely on a few Middle Eastern & European countries & it's disgusting.
1
The problem with those who favor basically unlimited immigration from anywhere to anywhere is that they tell people who object that the reason they object is because there are many serious things wrong with them, and what they value is essentially meaningless. And therefore, the unlimited immigration fans don't have to listen to them.
And then they are really surprised when they are voted out of office.
75
Agreed. Stop with the "Far Right" and "Nationalism" labeling too. I do not see Korea or Japan being labeled that way and they LET NO ONE IN.
63
a long swim from Europe/Africa to either Japan or Korea
2
The people I'm descended from include a mother superior and people who call Catholics papists. People with medals for never missing Sunday school and people who think anyone who believes in god is a moron. People proud to be from Country X, and people who think all people from Country X are lazy drunks--and said so. People who think the Arts are everything and people who think most artists are leeches. In other words, I've heard insults from everybody about everybody. And every side believes they are right.
It gets you nowhere to insult the other side. And people refuse to learn this.
4
When we started visiting Hungary in the 1990s we raved to everyone that we had never had such delicious tomatoes as those we found there. The markets were full of them that tasted like they came from Grandma's garden. Then came E.U. integration, if I remember correctly, in 2004. Returning to Budapest and starving for that cuisine, I was horrified to find tomatoes that tasted like they came from an American supermarket. 'What happened?" I asked our friends. Well, one of the "advantages" of unification was being required, in our friends' description, to accept imported produce from other E.U. countries, including inferior Spanish tomatoes, chosen, as in America, for their ability to withstand long transport and marketing times. That's a small anecdote, and maybe a trivial one, but for me it encapsulates the train wreck of European unification. Regular people have had their lives upended and inconvenienced through bureaucratic tinkering and indifference. Brexit, Italy, the rest, it's all the same. Unifiers predicted, "Trust us, it'll be great." Instead it has felt like a jolting disruption, which, by the way, is a good description of an influx of foreign migrants.
85
Wow, tomatoes and the parable of crumbling European unity. In Italy we were so admiring of the Hungarian ones even though we have, hmmm, some that are not so bad. Could it be that the local ones were a tad to expensive and the locals switched.....but enough of trivia.
Saluti
1
Excellent post, Blair.
Let me add a few points from observations during my visits to Hungary.
A lot of the regulations put together by the bureaucrats in Brussels required capital intensive agricultural production and distribution. The result: large western multinational companies thrived, while small local producers in Hungary were unable to compete. No wonder that in supermarkets in Hungary, primarily an agricultural country, sell German butter.
Of course, all the large supermarket chains (Aldi, Tesco, Auchan, Interspar, ...) are foreign.
At the time Hungary was admitted to the EU one of the conditions they had to accept was that agricultural price supports its producers received was 1/3, or less, of what producers got in the countries that were already in the EU.
Many things you buy, body lotion, for example, have all the writing on it in English and/or German, except for a small sticker on which you will find just the information required by law. In mouseprint of course. Made in some country other than Hungary.
And I could go on with examples.
Oh, just one more thing. Didi you realize that Brussels late last year was considering banning the meat used in gyros? (They ended up not doing so).
So why am I not surprised at the results of elections in the "lesser" countries of the EU?
6
If I go to a farmer's market in Germany, I can still buy locally grown produce. The raspberries, though, may hail from Hungary or Romania.
Is there a way out of this mess? First, progressives have to address concerns about migration. One way to do that is to make integration work better. This requires moving beyond platitudes of victimization and cultural diversity towards a comprehensive understanding of manufacturing and cooperatives as agents of integration. Second, the slow growth might have something to do with economic competence and the viability of firms. Cooperatives in Italy have shown that they are very competent in producing products and retaining labor. Therefore, progressives have one more reason to embrace cooperatives. Third, incumbent parties can't be complacent about corruption and waste or nepotism. They must set up political spin-offs that engage in what Americans call "political organizing" and also renew civic engagement and strong citizenship. People must be given an economic stake in the system and must be shown that political engagement pays. Otherwise, young people don't vote and stay at home. So, this latter item might involve a restructured university system in which students learn how to act and advance best practice models in equitable economic development, industrial policy and social movement mobilization. This might require giving more young persons access to permanent university jobs.
5
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=iRk7
January 15, 2018
United Kingdom and Italy Employment-Population Ratios, * 2000-2017
* Employment age 25-54
The socialist welfare state has been shown to be unable to pay for or allow the economy to grow for workers. immigration is only one facet of the problem but is ignored by the entrenched deep state. The answer is always obvious less government lower taxes more freedom. It works anywhere.
16
That has worked out so well for Somalia.
5
let us know when you decline your Medicare, unemployment, housing assistance, federal infrastructure/education subsidies, disability benefits and buy yourself a set of teeth and a brain
17
The reason Italy is in this situation, is that Berlusconi and his mafia buddies lowered taxes while they looted the country for years. The EU/EFTA countries that have the MOST regulations, and highest taxes: that would be Scandinavia, Benelux and Germany, and Switzerland, are doing the best. The countries that have low taxes, and don't even collect the ones they have on the books, are the ones that are going populist. The opiod crisis in the U.S. is the result of the triumph of Reagan's Republicans to cut taxes and try to borrow their way into prosperity.
5
desperation leads to rash actions, particularly within the political sphere.
8
Great article. The Democrats in the US would be well advised to read it and think about it. Stop calling people who voted for Trump deplorable. Think about all the people who do not have good jobs but want them. No, training will not help everyone. Automation will eliminate more and more jobs, we do not need more immigrants.
70
Juanita? Native American descendent or imported heritage, like the rest of us.
Since most new jobs, new technologies, have been created by immigrants in the past decade, we're inclined to keep them and ship the home-growns who can't be bothered to take advantage of our educational system, learn compassion or economics
7
Juanita, Trump's supporters ARE deplorable because they do nothing to improve their educational/economic condition! Instead of going to a community college to get a subsidized degree in a tech or health field that pays more money than their no-longer-existing job, they moan and groan about immigrants that do not take their jobs, they cry over their lapsed social standing and get high on opioids.
2
This kind of contempt for the little people will all but guarantee Trump gets a second term.
In the old days, the left used to want to lift the working class up. Now, they lecture them about how they need to make the donor class even richer and just accept worse jobs with lower pay, longer hours, and mountains of student loan debt. Unbelievable.
5
Italy has had 65 governments since 1946 and each one seems to operate on the chaos theory. Maybe Trump should move there; he'd feel right at home.
47
Yet the country is alive and well compared to many others with autocratic rule. Democracy works!
2
EUxit.
The EU has failed; consistently, repeatedly, and spectacularly.
But it's not polite to say so, for some reason.
Time to dissolve it. And move on. It's coming apart anyway. Only a matter of time.
Rip off the band-aid, and move forward with a vision for the 21st century, before it's too late.
37
I thought the vision for 21st century is globalization and cooperation, not nationalism. Could Italy survive on its own? History says differently.
What happened to united we stand, divided we fall?
6
And the vision, pray tell?
4
Overwrought overgeneralizations do not a cogent case make. Especially when it comes to extremely complex and huge issues for which any adequate assessment must be comprehensive and detailed. Therefore, no one can actually pull off a statement as sweeping as this, especially because of all the data that contradicts this statement with respect to many facets of the EU. What most tends toward such non-thinking is the fact of our increasingly unacceptable over-complexification. And that problem as much as many others is a function of the de facto WAY overpopulation which it is completely taboo to mention, let alone go into the details about. And THAT mega-fact is why any and all efforts to paint "anti-immigration" as mere racism or xenophobia is null and void....and yet is the knee-jerk go-to of all supposed "globalists", "neo-liberals", and so-called "progressives". And these statements of mine are based on extremely cogent masses of obvious findings regarding the entirety of the human condition throughout our history. The opposite of "overgeneralization".
1
The racial antagonism in Italy that has surfaced during the economic decline and immigration pressures is especially worrying to me.
7
Me too. Most of these migrants are trying to make a better life for themselves, but are stuck in a hole of economic deprivation, xenophobia, hatred & the citizens have the pay the price for the lack of good jobs, corruption & lack of help from other countries who will not pick up some of the burden on taking in their fair share of migrants & refugees. Everyone gets hurt, both the migrants & the citizens.
This is my biggest beef with the E.U being a confederation rather than a federation. If the E.U & their institutions were structured more like with the United States, then Europe would be doing far better. This is why I am an E.U federalist & many Europeans back me up on this. Just take a look @ movements like the #PulseOfEurope for example. If the language barrier is a problem, just make Latin the official language & it'll actually symbolize ancient Rome's historical positives & enlightenment values so much.
2
I don't understand. Why aren't we leading with the possibility that Russia interfered with this election?
22
There isn't much discussion about it. However, Lega, M5S & even Berlusconi have very close ties with Russia & China. M5S & Lega have toyed around in the past of withdrawing Italy from the Euro, the E.U & N.A.T.O, something that would hugely benefit Russia. It guess it looks like that Americans, Britons, Italians, Poles, Hungarians, Czechs & Slovaks aren't given a good enough education in Civics, politics, critical thinking & journalism while the French, Germans, Benelux, Baltics, the Nordics & the Irish receive a far better education. Plus, these countries don't tend to be as anti immigrant or as xenophobic, as they have more interactions with people who aren't like them & are more globalized. The more I think about it, it looks to me that France is the only country considered to be southern European or Romance which isn't overtly & excessively ignorant or naive.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=hYOE
August 4, 2014
Real per capita Gross Domestic Product for Germany and Italy, 2000-2016
(Percent change)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=hYOK
August 4, 2014
Real per capita Gross Domestic Product for Germany and Italy, 2000-2016
(Indexed to 2000)
6
Why is it that many "mainstream" pundits say that the migrants are scapegoats? No, they aren't. In Italy (as witnessed by someone who lives there), the mainly sub-Saharan African migrants are, by their sheer numbers, a clear & visible threat to traditional Italian life. There is no work for them, they are a drain on the Italian treasury trying to support them, and their unending flow in the past 7 years is a demonstration of the failure of the leadership of both the Partito Democratico & the Eurocrats of the EU. It's like the boxer who said about the fist that knocked him out: man, I didn't see that scapegoat coming!
103
The E.U. must equalize treatment of its members.
3
Everything changes so it can all stay the same has been the mantra with us at least since we became a unified Italy. A new election law, a relatively new political movement.....but the same old faces everywhere (Berlusconi!!!!) and what happens? Nobody has a obtained a majority allowing for a government to be put together...get out the good old behind the scene and under the table 'negotiations' to erect yet another house of cards.
Negative? Yes as I am an grumpy old man.....but certain values on life and the enjoyment of it still persist.....
Saluti
13
We should have a "throw the bums out" election in November.
19
As long as it is about illegal immigration as this one was I am all for it.
1