The left is going to commit suicide for the sake of illegal immigrants, all so the big capitalist donors can profit off of lower labor costs. The big capitalist donors, mind you, who oppose just about everything else the left stands for.
Again, and again, and again, we are told by the bourgeois press that unrestricted immigration is good. It's good all right, good for the bottom lines of the major corporations, their shareholders, and their executives. But that is, at best, 5-10% of the population. The other 90% lose, while, meanwhile, nothing is done about wages, underemployment, healthcare, infrastructure, student loan debt, and the steady erosion of worker rights and environmental regulations.
Whether democracy lasts or whether it will be replaced by some form of fascism will depend, almost entirely, on whether the third world can lower its birth rates. Billions would move to the developed world if given the opportunity. Open borders advocates are essentially calling for just that. If that happens true fascists will come to power and democracy will be finished.
9
It is correct that the EU non-response to Italy's burden of sheltering migrants turned the people against their Northern euro-partners. For years the rich Northern countries-- the ultimate destinations of the migrants-- exploited the Italians deep respect for public graciousness and hospitality. The EU contributed almost nothing to the cost of hosting the migrants.
But what the article doesn't report is that the Northern bankers were equally to blame for Italian euro skepticism-- their cruel austerity policies have condemned an entire generation of young Italians to a lifetime of emigration or living without a family of their own with their pensioner parents.
Renzi, who promised to create jobs, was the last straw when the legislative reforms he proposed only abolished job protections and cut social benefits. Italy is fed up with neo-liberalism. To call the social democrats 'the left' is today just a joke in Italy.
17
'But their strength at the polls was a strong indicator of voter anger after a prolonged period of economic stagnation and the arrival of hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants from Africa and elsewhere.'
Ha! When it's Europe they're illegal migrants. When it's the USA, they're undocumented. Talk about double standards.
16
I am writing from Italy.
As an Italian citizen, traditionally voting for the left area parties, including in the elections of the past years the Democratic Party. This time I was really in trouble because the left party tradition has been betrayed by Matteo Renzi who, in the years when he was Prime Minister, did really nothing that could be described as belonging to the left wing tradition, and actually turned the party into something different, and we have seen here the results. At the moment there is really no left area party to choose in Italy, except for Leu which is unfortunately too small and represented by politicians who belong to the old team and seen as too much related to the old establishment. The 5 Star Movement, on the other hand, has been more cautious in relation to critical subjects as migration and Europe, and is no longer an anti-European party, they claim that Italian politicians in Europe should do more to have their voices heard and this can be done only with more and real committment. Also, they have been maybe the only Party that has presented a programme including themes as measures for economic recovery and fight against corruption giving themselves an example of good behaviour. I would not define them a populist Party actually, because they are not looking for easy votes that other parties have tried and succeeded to get focussing on people's fears or easy promises.
17
Viewing politics in Italy through an American lense isn't helpful. The NYT refers to the Five Stars Movement as the far-right but it has little similarities to the far-right in US politics. Five Stars are in favor of a guaranteed minimum wage which would be considered a fringe-left idea in the US.
16
To be precise, the article refers to the League as "far right" and the 5-Star Movement as "Populist." In truth, the 5-Star Movement has captured more votes from people who formerly voted for the Left than for the Right.
7
Two years ago we spent a month in Sicily in the small coastal city we hope to retire in. Out walking one day we encountered a fund raiser with music and crafts to help refugees coming in. I was impressed and a little surprised by the sympathetic attitude towards the newcomers considering Italy's own financial and severe unemployment issues. Over the course of this and our subsequent visits our local acquaintances made it clear that they were Five Star supporters because they felt the present government and their EU allies were not helping them carry the load and despite Italy's vital economy the disparity in income between the north and south was still great. They believed a change in government was needed to address issues that were important to them and the Five Star Party would be their best option. They talked more about salaries for teachers, lower tax rates on their vacation rental profits and job creation for young people so they wouldn't have to leave home to have a career they'd gone to school for. It was all about survival and spending government money on those they considered were a burden on the state instead of them, and it seemed unfair. It wasn't anti anyone or hostile, just pro them. I had to agree that allowing in a lot of needy people to an already beleaguered population didn't sound racist just realist.
18
Try spending some time in L.A.
3
As I was voting for the first time (I’m 18) I was really worried that my vote for Democratic Party was going to be worthless. In fact I had the thought that the wave of populism and mistrust of democracy was going to hit also Italy, after that other countries like Hungary, Austria and also Britain are experiencing it. I told some friends that Five Star Movement was going to win, hoping the exact opposite, but then I was unfortunately right. In Italy many people, including me, are perceiving this result as the loss of democracy, and we are quite desperate because the next prime minister is going to be either an illiterate man (Mr Di Maio, 5Star Movement’s leader) or the most important Italian hater of immigrants (Mr Salvini, League’s leader). Dear American, I think that we are both shocked and amazed by this situation, but as you are doing, we are also going to fight for democracy.
15
It is absolutely incorrect to state or insinuate that yesterday's general election in Italy resulted in a victory for pro-fascist parties. Indeed, the Lega is not a fascist party, but largely a strongly pro-business, protectionist, anti-immigrant and "law and order" party.
Indeed, the extremest parties of the left and right registered insignificant results (based on nearly complete returns):
Casa Pound (neo-fascist) 300,000 votes = 0.95%
Italy for Italians (neo-fascist) 126,000 votes = 0.38%
Communists 106,000 votes = 0.32%
Revolutionary Party of the Left 28,000 votes = 0.08%
Interesting to note that the extreme left garnered fewer than one-third of the votes in favor of the extreme right.
19
The greatest threat to the EU is not Putin (who no doubt would like to see it weakened) but the EU leadership itself. So long as they continue to ignore the crises they have created and so long as they continue to work for the multi-national pharma/agra complex, they will continue to lose the support of European citizens.
29
Great news and I now look forward to casting my own vote in Sweden's upcoming election in September. Desperate attempts are made by the establishment and mainstream media to make it not so much about immigration but more about, for some reason, healthcare. That diversion won't be successful. We just happen to like our national identities a lot on this side of the Atlantic. Get over it, NYT readers!
40
Michael, spot on, and all the best in Sept. The pendulum is turning back, March in Italy, and in Sept, Sweden. :)
17
We need to stop using the word "populism" to describe political phenomena that are essentially fascist, such as Trump's election (no big surprise that now he wants to be President for Life) and what's going on in Italy. Please! It's terribly misleading. Populism has a long and honored history in the fabric of the American Body Politic, going back at least to William Jennings Bryan and Andrew Jackson. Historically, populism has not espoused racist nor xenophobic policies. It has also never been at the beck and call of what we now call the 1%, but instead sought to empower the masses with money (e.g., Bryan) and voting power (e.g., Jackson). Trump is a racist xenophobe who never met a favor for the rich he didn't like, and can't do enough for his corrupt cronies and family members. He does NOT deserve the appealing label of "populist." That's almost as bad a twisting of our language as calling that awful proposed law to legalize gun silencers called the Hearing Protection Act!
6
A well balanced article. The established parties have been involved in scandal after scandal, so it does not surprise that Italians voted for anti-establishment parties. Berlusconi was also considered a populist in the beginning of his political career (and to some, he still is). Despite Italy being the 3rd largest economy in the EU (after Brexit) and being a net contributor, they have been ignored by France, Germany and the rest of the EU, which became particularly evident with the immigration crisis, which Italy mostly had to fix by themselves. The Italians did not vote anti-EU: even the Five Star Movement said they would not leave the eurozone.
Italian voters want change for valid reasons, and the populist parties provided them the political platform. For Italy, I hope it will lead to them fixing their national political problems, and that the EU listens to Italy's important voice.
18
Why are we continually surprised by this? People rarely like or identify with people not like themselves.
20
Maybe that's been your experience, but here in NYC, and most major metropolitan areas in the world, we prove quite the opposite. Different kinds of people come together and thrive side by side. I would hate to live in a homogenous place, and I'm sure my fellow NYers would agree.
4
And here in Hawaii too. Somehow, a sense of respect for others and cultivation of aloha makes our cultural melting pot work.
3
I don't think that I am imagining that every country in the world, including the formerly most liberal ones, are rejecting migrants.
6
This result should have surprised no one. This is what happens when a situation gets out of control, when a government fails its basic responsibility to its citizens first and foremost.
Liberalism is great but with boundaries. Liberalism works when borders are protected, and tightly controlled, and when social payments are made to the neediest citizens or to those in their old age who paid into the system their entire working lives, and not to anyone who can get to Italy by hook or by crook from continents away.
Progressives bit of more than they can chew, advocating for illegal immigration to EU countries without a plan for integration, and without a long-term plan to pay the tremendous cost of resettlement.
It is the responsibility of any government to provide safety and security to its citizens, and when a government fails to meet this responsibility, then it should rightly expect to be replaced by the voters, as we saw here. This trend is on the rise.
And it is the responsibility of the leaders in the immigrant-exporting countries to protect and offer opportunities to their citizens; Western countries can certainly help in this regard by financial aid, but NOT by taking in any more of their citizens.
43
"Populism" has become a bad word in the last few years. Its new negative connotation has been promulgated by technocratic leaders allied with the elite, people behind things like the bankrupting of Greece for the benefit of German creditors.
Populism, in fact, used to be a GOOD word, a call to policies that supported the populace, the common people. Here are a few of its definitions taken from reputable references.
Oxford - A person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
Collins - any person, esp. a politician or political leader, who claims to represent the interests, views, or tastes of the common people, particularly as distinct from those of the rich or powerful
Merriam-Webster - a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people
21
And the common people of much of Europe, like the common people of the US, are getting more and more disgusted with the elites, the rich, and the powerful insisting that they need to accommodate swarms of immigrants who in most cases are violating the laws in order to arrive. That is populism, because that's what the people want.
30
It’s not as if these election results are shocking or unpredictable. For years - indeed, way before the Syrian migration - the Italian coast guard and other state and local agencies have efficiently and compassionately saved thousands upon thousands of migrants pushed off from Libya into the sea on over-crowded floating death traps. In the meantime, Italy had its own problems, including rocketing unemployment among the young. The other EU nations did not assist and closed their borders. Is it any surprise that Italian voters would choose parties that want the EU to stand up and be counted?
27
The socialist left in Europe is paying the price for supporting unrestricted immigration from the mideast. Those policies destroy what it means to be a country, with an identity, values and history. Socialism and One World Order at work...
28
Socialism worked fine when Italy was all Italian together....
4
Right...so are the right wing parties promising a change to an American style healthcare system? Or American gun laws?
The Italian people have spoken, and they do not see why they should be the home of those who choose to flee their country, rather than stay and work on their own problems. This is becoming a more and more common response to the issue, and those who support free immigration need to explain why it is not appropriate, if it isn't.
28
Every anti-European government that gets voted into office weakens the EU and is a win for Russia, whose objective is to destroy European unity because they see it as a threat, not an opportunity.
But the forces giving rise to the ascendancy of these governments are real and troubling. The causes are all over and they vary from case to case. The countries from which the migrants flow may be in mortal turmoil, may be badly governed, may be corrupted internally or victims of external forces, and the European response to the emigration from those parts of the world is commonly perceived to have been disjointed and chaotic. Added to which, the situation in the USA today is not much different in character. A so-called populist was elected by many people who feel hard done by and threatened, probably with reason; but whether such governance will answer their grievances is a whole other matter. Same in Europe.
2
The reasons for this shift can be laid squarely at the feet of the EU leadership, who have been extremely ineffective at dealing with the human traffickers of North Africa and the huge increase in illegal immigration by economic migrants from across the Middle East all the way to Bangladesh.
If Merkel et al had put in place a robust and orderly solution back in late 2014 none of this would be happening. Denmark would not be instituting its new ghetto laws, Iceland its ban on circumcision, Sweden its crackdown on crime... Maybe even Brexit would have gone the other way.
But maybe it's all for the best. Merkel's precipitation of a crisis has awoken the general population, who are now forcing their political "leaders" to address the problems that simmered for so long.
"Populism" is now, of course, a dirty word. It used to be considered a good thing, political movements that had their roots and strength in the well-being of the general POPULACE, rather than in the elite. But now it is portrayed in a negative light because it challenges the decisions of the technocratic and corporate leadership of the EU, a leadership that has failed on so many fronts in recent years.
So long as the current leadership keeps its head in the sand the people of Europe will shift more and more to a hard stance on immigration and the tone of political debate will go from a simmer to a boiling point.
22
Gee, another "surprise" outcome in an election in a Western country where a large number of people are seething with anger and finally finding their voice.
And another traditional political party suffered its "poorest showing ever".
M5S outperformed, as did League, in yet another stunning rebuke of the establishment and the EU itself.
No matter how hard the elites and the media try, they just haven't been able to sell the "populism is on the wane" narrative for the past year. Democracy keeps getting in the way.
Time to stop the charade, and be proactive, before things spiral out of control.
Europe is imploding.
The EU has failed, and is unworkable in its current form. It is simply not up to the extraordinary and myriad challenges it faces in the coming decade.
It won't be long now before the marketing people come up with some cute term for the collapse of the EU; perhaps "EUxit"?
Time for some leadership to find a new way forward. Merkel is done. She's part of the problem, and will be judged by history as one of the root causes of the turmoil to come across the continent of Europe.
Macron is the only hope, but the challenges are monumental, and he's untested. And the fact that there are no candidates other than him to lead Europe away from the abyss is a scathing indictment of the European establishment.
The status quo is unsustainable. Many of the youth of Europe are concluding that there's no hope for the future.
These are extraordinarily dangerous times.
10
The EU is fine. Needs new governance tho.
Merkel will go down in history as being the cause of the downfall of the EU and Europe in general. The blame will be directed at her for throwing open the doors and putting the welcome mat out.
15
People are not fungible. It is not possible to move large numbers of Third World people into Europe without provoking nasty initial right-wing reactions and growth in reactionary electoral success as even formerly centrist or left wing voters draw the line at unchecked immigration. There isn't anything wrong if Italy wants to remain Italian, France wants to remain French, Hungary wants to remain Hungarian and so on. And the same is true for non-white nations like Japan, Congo, South Korea, etc. The countries of the "Old World" are generally not nations built by refugees or immigrants. They are ethnic homelands to a greater or lesser extent.
Just because someone finds Togo or China or Nigeria or Pakistan undesirable places to live doesn't mean that they can move to Italy without permission. Mass immigration is accelerant for reactionary parties. Even Macron in France, who was sold as the alternative to the reactionary Le Pen crowd, has taken up a hard line on immigration, one not too different from Le Pen.
Immigration, legal and otherwise, must be reduced and controlled. It has to be limited to what the residents of a given country want. How can we work to make impoverished countries more desirable places to live? That's the challenge.
37
As much as our two-party system infuriates me with its lack of choice, when I read articles like this, I'm forced to concede that it's ultimately preferable to the alternative.
2
The optimist says Italy has done OK without governments before.
The pessimist says the winner of the Italian elections was Vladimir Putin.
We will know in six months, but whatever happens the outcome depends on the Five Star Movement. It will help immensely if the Times devoted serious column inches to their views. Tell us who their leaders are.
Are they intelligent populists, like FDR was (and Bernie and Elizabeth Warren are today)? Or are they firebrands like Spain's starting to fade PODEMOS party? Certainly Italians had reason to be angry and Berlusconi's loss is Italy's gain. Give us a sense of Five Stars's policies.
2
Having read two articles from another news service about this election and (I admit) the Wikipedia entry about the Five Star Movement, I was optimistic about the results. Five Star has several ideas I agree with and which seem what youth in the world are seriously looking at. Then I read this NYT article that is mostly doom and gloom: clearly implying that the issue of immigration and current short-term issues are foremost,rather than the environment and all the other issues that will determine the middle- and long-term future. Five Star looks like a fresh voice, although granted fresh voices get ground down when they get a degree of power.
1
Italy needs to see if their voting machines were hack as they were in the United States. very suspicious that both the far right and populist made such gains when their approval is much lower.
1
The EU's response to the financial crisis was 10 years of austerity which led to extraordinarily high unemployment. The influx of immigrants made it easy for the hard right to blame them for the lack of jobs. They should be blaming Germany.
4
One very serious problem that the liberals want to avoid discussing is that jobs have disappeared. It was easy, at a time of cheap credit, to borrow money and place the populace in non-productive government jobs. Teaching African-American or Gender Studies provides some jobs but their graduates are not fit to perform useful work. Those who took STEM courses and graduated with a meaningful degree now earn well. The liberal response is to scream income inequality. This will only improve when we realize that jobs producing products for which people will voluntarily pay are the solution. Using expansionist policies to create more useless positions for some under served group is not the answer.
6
Even when I lived behind the Iron Curtain, I admired the (smuggled-in copies of) the NYT primarily because of its trust in the voice(s) of people(s).
Now the last thing the NYT trusts is the people. Anywhere --- from Venezuela to North Korea.
If elections bring results not to the liking of the editors, they are condemned as "populist ignorance."
But who makes people "ignorant": The education/media/entertainment combine, which is firmly in the hands of NYT darlings.
Chastise, heal and improve yourselves.
First.
Then you can pontificate.
31
Again we see here the incredible misreading of history which is so common. The fascists of the 20th century (Mussolini took power in 1922) had an expansionist foreign policy. He invaded other countries (Ethiopia) and tried to conquer them. Today's Italian right is DEFENDING Italy against invasion. It's the exact opposite. The patriotic right-wing parties are the very opposite of 20th century expansionist fascism. They are more like Poland and Czechoslovakia, who defended against fascism as patriots.
Those who have no clue about history are condemned to make nonsensical statements about it. In particular, they are condemned to call everyone they disagree with a fascist. It's simply not 1922 again, folks. Facts on the ground are not at all similar.
14
Nope, it’s not 1922. Definitely into the 30s now. Can’t wait for our military parades with best generals with the bestest in command.
No Italian Premiers since the Second World War, with the exceptions of DiGasperi and Moro, had lengthy terms of office. Italian politics is a soup where the seasoning constantly changes but the basic recipe does not. Italy has never been governed well. Fundamental economic reforms need to happen. No post-war party has had the fortitude to tackle them when in government. Nigerians are not the problem. Muslims are not the problem. The ostensible problem changes with the seasons. The problem is that the Italian economy is its own worst enemy and that Italians are always promised some sort of "reform" during the election campaign, but it never happens because both the politicians and the voters find the lift to be too heavy.
4
Imagine 700,000 immigrants landing on your country's beaches in 1 year. Immigrants that don't speak your language, don't value your culture, and don't respect the laws. Living in Florida, with a constant bombardment of similar immigrants I can empathize with the Italians. Hopefully it's not too late to save their heritage. It's must remain and Italy for Italians.
28
In the US, with 5x the Italian population, it would be 3.500,000 in 3 years. We have had a much higher rate of illegals, but we are also more used to it, and we have a tradition of accepting strangers. Italians do not.
2
Yeah, imagine how Argentina, Brazil, the US, Canada and Australia felt a century ago when it was the Italians "not speaking their language"; when Americans were calling them "not quite white" if they were feeling nice about it or "not following their laws" a la Sacco and Venzetti. Not to mention how many Italians today live in Germany, the UK, France and others. It's fascinating how Italy is "for the Italians" when the shoe, or perhaps, boot, is on the other foot, eh? I wonder how all 8 of my great grandparents felt when they came here to the US, some undocumented and zero speaking English. Maybe it was your family- surely you're of Cherokee or Navajo stock given your immigration status- greeting them?
The progressives are getting turned out all over the Western World. The reason is always the same: they are totally out of touch with the populace. Just reading the labels in this article shows how they don't get it and probably never will. It is always "far right" or "populist" which are transparent code words for "deplorables", also known universally on the left as "White Supremacists" which merely means they don't adhere to the dictates of political correctness. The reaction among progressives here seems to be to go further and further out toward the fringe. Good luck with that! They will never be called "left wing", however. That bird has only one wing, the "right wing".
26
Yes, progressives are getting "turned out". Right wingers like Justin Trudeau, Angela Merkel, and our very own Doug Jones and Ralph Northam are on the decline. November is going to be beautiful.
1
The end goal for hundreds of millions of people from other countries should not be to immigrate to western countries. The developed world is weary of egregious overpopulation. The US and Europe should not be compelled to destroy themselves because other nations and religious refuse to embrace family planning. Overpopulation also adds to accelerated environmental destruction.
34
I'd like to know when far-left FDR populists start winning? Do we need world-wide depression to happen again?
2
Seems like another "trump" has been elected in Italy. We shall see the results of the populist movement whether or not we want them.Sad.
As with Brexit and Trump, the people actually get to govern themselves. What a shocking concept! Thomas Paine, call your office.
8
While pur problems are very different than the Europeans - economic, cultural and the 800 pound gorilla - the immigration.
The world over, there is a general anger over uncontrolled migration - which has proven to be more economic than any other reasons. Sure, they use every other excuse, persecution, religion, conflicts etc. But the perception has now rooted that all of this is just economic.
Nothing wrong there - but the big difference is these folks refuse to stand in line, follow a process or even obey laws. They are simply overwhelming with numbers.
If I were a Democrat here - contesting 2018 elections - I would hold off measuring for new drapes to occupy an office currently held by a Republican.
I think - even with vast difference between us and Europeans - Americans even with our immigrant culture have had it.
We are longing for a due process and not overwhelmed by numbers. And like the Europeans, we are beginning to feel under siege - with demands from these illegals to change our laws to suit them.
So, a lesson from Italy for Democrats - tread slowly on DACA and other amnesty provisions.
21
We could compare this to the U.S. where we are beset with undocumented migrants from Central American and Mexico, most of whom have no more than a 6th grade education. They are barely literate in their own language, let alone in English. Here in Washington State, there are Mayans from Mexico who have never been to school because it was only in the last few years that the Mexican school system made them feel welcome and started offering instructions in their dialects. These people do not know how to read in any language. They move here to find work. When they need medical care, they need 2 translators - one who can translate from their Mayan dialect to Spanish and another who can translate from Spanish to English. Guess who pays for the translators and the medical care. It isn’t the Mayans or their employers.
Instead of having to spend an endless amount of resources on a continual inflow of uneducated, unskilled migrants (and their families) who need aid in every area of their lives, let us focus our time and resources on educating and training our own citizens for the modern economy.
Those who say we can legalize the ones who are already here, and stop any more from coming are forgetting that the same was said back in 1986. The reality is that the only way to stop the inflow is to encourage self-deportation, and then to deport any who remain. We could then devote our energies to our own citizens, who would then be more likely to vote for moderate leadership.
34
Immigration has been net zero from Mexico since the early Obama years if not before. At least stick to facts.
How many illegal immigrate from Mexico can you count? Can't you. "zero" is a pure nonsense. Yes stuck to facts.
Mike,
Customs and Bordet Patrol announced they had stopped 40,513 people tying to illegally cross our border with Mexico just in December, and another 35,822 in January. It is not known how many migrants were able to cross undetected.
Many of those stopped are from Central America. The adults have learned to bring their children. The government does not have enough places to detain families so it assigns the families court dates, and releases them into the wider community. A large percentage of them do not show up for their hearings.
5
Why does the "Left" believe illegal immigration is a cause worth losing elections over? People are concerned about jobs, wealth inequality, the rising cost of healthcare, education and housing. If the liberal political parties made those issues the priority instead of identity politics and shielding illegal immigrants they wouldn't be losing all of these elections. Judging by voter feedback people don't want uneducated immigrants who hold backward views moving into their neighborhoods. And for that they are made out to be bigots and racists by the media/left political parties. It's no wonder why liberals in the US feel alienated by the Democratic party. There's nothing inspiring them to get out and vote. Anti-Trump and is not a vision.
39
Why anyone wants millions of illegal entrants into their country is questionable.
10
I can assure that no left government wished to take illegal immigrants in. There is no such thing as immigration policy of the left. The political left has no advantage whatsoever from illegal immigrants influx, as self evident.
Actually, Italian government tried very hard to stop the arrivals and send illegal immigrants back. Technically, both tasks are extremely difficult for a number of different reasons. You have to grant immigrants the permission to stay until the refugee status plead is examined. Even if it is refused, to send people back you need collaboration with the home country, which is seldom accorded.
It's a difficult problem, but there is no political intention from the left to take in illegal immigrants.
Sandro, You sound just like a PD politician explaining why the govt.'s hands are tied. "Sorry, folks, we can't really do anything. We tried (not), We really did (not, not)." One of the messages of this election is that the time for excuses is over. The migrant surge can be stopped (actually Minitti, the PD interior minister did stop a lot of it with his deal with the Libyan factions . . . but it was too little, too late). And illegal migrants who were allowed to enter Italy can, and should be, deported out of Italy. It is not a difficult problem.
4
Another country says it wants to take its borders back, and the international elite insists that the benighted voters must be ignored because continuation of current failed policies means "we know best."
26
Since I am Italian - although I know live in the US - I feel I might have a somewhat "better" perspective of what happened in yestreday's election in Italy. First, the split between North - mostly center right - and the South - rather populist - is about 150 years old as it goes back to the unification of Italy in the middle of the 19th century. The North has always been more industrious with a combination of large industrial complexes - like FIAT - and numerous small, mostly family owned small enterprise. The South was mostly an agricultural region and, despite billions in investments, has remained largely so. The consequences for employment opportunities, wealth creation and quality of life are obvious. And things have not changed much in the last 150 years!
Fast forward to current time; the situation has not changed but now add the massive inflow of migrants from Africa and the Middle East. No wonder there is a backlash against immigration - legal or illegal - and against ALL politicians, who have been lining their pockets with government funds and delivering nothing of value!!
And, please, leave Putin out of it! Sure, there is anti-EU sentiment in Italy; but it has little to do with Russian involvement! The comment on the NYT that "Putin won the Italian election" shows a complete lack of understanding of the Italian political dynamics!
55
Very good to hear from a person who understands the politics as a native. And it is especially important to understand that Putin's effect is VERY small. The vote was by Italians about Italian issues. While it is possible that a tiny impact of Russian forces was there, the actual issues - illegals, poor economy, unemployment of the youth, stagnation - were not created by the Russians. The Italians voted on Italian issues. The whole "Putin did it" is nuts.
12
For things to remain the same, everything must change.
I doubt beating back populist and far-right insurgencies is what Merkel did. She invited her own political demise and the rise of the AFD with her unstructured immigration policy. Schade, because Germany had many means to combat the unsustainable flood of immigrants by addressing the problem at the source. Now, overwhelmed, many Germans will continue to have open ears for populism for many years to come.
21
Italy's two tiered economy has always been a curse on the country. Everyone has two jobs....one which pays taxes and another undeclared to Tax Revenue.
2
The 5-star movement backed away weeks ago from a referendum on the Euro. They said this was not the time. That was a major reason they did so well in the election. Only 15% of the electorate says they want to pull out of the Euro. Any move to shed the Euro, or pull an "Italexit" would cause the value of Italian bonds to tank, and probably Italian banks to collapse. Italy, with its enormous public debt, doesn't have the option of going it alone, and they have too little leverage to change the EU in any fundamental way. I would remind Signora Virgilio that many ordinary Slovakians demonstrated Saturday against the Italian mafia who deal drugs in other E.U. countries.
The real takeaway from this election is that Berlusconi isn't coming back,and Italy isn't going to leave the E.U.
15
Discontent with the political classes is still on the rise, particularly in Europe where the bureaucrats in Brussels are despised and their European Project is increasingly hitting the skids. Merkel got a bloody nose and now the professional political class in Italy, who strongly favoured the EU project have been booted out. Needless to say, a lot of this was a factor in Brexit as well and should there be votes in most EU countries, from the Netherlands to Poland, on leaving the EU, it would be a best a close run contest. Of course much of the discontent could be eliminated if there was systematic and real reform of the EU. Reform is often raised, but never followed through on. Why? because the Eurocrats would have to accept limits on their powers and writs. The opposite of what they are doing. Germany is the primary beneficiary of the EU, the paymaster of the EU and biggest beneficiary of the single currency so it is resistant to reform. However, it seems that to many in Germany, Merkel has gone too far and the German love affair with the EU project is waning. The bottom line is the EU has failed economically, politically and socially, particularly the young, the poor and communities! This failure has given rise to fringe politics of the right and the left and unless the EU wakes up to real reform, the project will end up in tears.
11
Am I justified in asking what type of voting methods are used in Italy?
Paper ballots?
Hackable machines?
That Five Star, with its pro-Putin stance, would achieve such a stunning result begs a question:
Is the Russian state, with its internet technology know how and natural desire for mischief and cheating (the ONLY nation barred from the Olympics) up to some dirty tricks in Italy?
2
I love Italy and the Italian people BUT....
Their economy is more 3rd world than mainstream European. They cannot make it on their own and they are a drag on the rest of Western Europe.
They think it's all the fault of immigrants and conspiracies, but it's sadly a function of their undying belief in Italian "exceptionalism" that keeps them living int the past.
Be forewarned America.
2
If Italians paid their taxes and reported their earnings, their economy would be one of the largest in Europe. It's the corruption, mafia accounting, and a culture of black marketeering that stifles their economy.
4
isn't Italy a third largest economy in EU?
5
While I can appreciate that Italy, as the rest of Europe, has never been thought of as a melting pot I'm very, very sad to learn that it has turned in the direction of its Fascist politics of nearly eighty years ago. I love Italy and feel that the only way I can help in even a partial meaningful way is with my tourist dollars, which I have gladly done and been looking forward to do so again and again (even toying with the idea of living there in my retirement). But, on the other hand, does this hard tack to the right mean that I should withdraw the only half-way meaningful form of support I can wield? It continues to be Numero Uno on my bucket list. But how else can I show my loathing for direction Italy is going?!! Don't the Italians realize that the enemies of my beloved Italy would like nothing more than to make it and Europe as weak as possible in as many ways as possible!!??
Italy and the rest deserve their shrinking economies exacerbated by their low birth rates, their sclerotic institutions infested with corruption and incompetence, and now their pitiful politics poisoned by prejudice and ignorance. They'll see not a dime of my vacation or consumption money. As for America, 2018 is almost here. We shall rise again better and stronger and more free than ever.
To sum it up, Italy is fed up with the German-run EU dictating immigration policy. Heck, much of Europe has had enough of the Germans period, from Great Britain to Poland and many in between.
21
Five Star used the same playbook that Trump did. Putin wins again.
Mainstream political parties in Italy and Europe are paying the price for years of failing to comprehend the toxic consequences of their failure to adequately enforce boarders, due largely to their own lack of courage to take necessary but "politically incorrect" actions against uncontrolled migrations of peoples from sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, and elsewhere. As Britain and France lacked the courage to confront Hitler during the 1930s (at a time when it would still have been possible to stop him), so too the center-left governments of Italy (and even, to a lesser extent, the center-right governments of the Berlusconi era) lacked the courage to take sufficient steps to control the influx of destitute people from third world countries. The European Union not only did not help Italy, they turned their backs on their southern neighbor.
So, the only surprise of this election is that even more people did not abandon both the PD and Forza Italia. This is tragic, because the parties rewarded lack the experience and "gravity" to do much more than stir up the darkest fears and emotions of the electorate, which is willing to vote for them in the hope that they will forcibly make Italy safer from the "barbarian invasions" and give Italians a reprieve from the European Union perceived (both justly and unjustly) as being a cruel stepmother in fiscal affairs.
The scourge of uncontrolled migration of masses of destitute people has come at exactly the wrong time for Europe.
13
How quickly the left blames those against open borders for causing illegal migration (a past history of imperialism, etc.) and then call them "fascists" or the like.
Unfortunately the faceless bureaucrats and clueless politicians like Angel Merkel (who probably live in gated communities) that run the European union don't suffer the stupidity of their policies. I wonder how many are taking Arab oil money to do nothing.
19
The right is so close to the people, living like everyday Americans. I mean Joe SixPack too lives in a tower with his name on it on 5th Ave.
Italy and Europe are not multicultural societies. A child born in Europe to African parents will never be considered Italian by the Italians. In the US or Canada this child would feel american or Canadian. The immigrants in Europe can not assimilate because the native population does not want them too. This is not Mussolini this is the 21st century. Problems in Italy are like the US just worse the upper classes keep making more money and the rest of nation suffers as they hear we are in recovery.. The people of world are talking maybe politicians should start listening.
9
Just something to think about. David Leonhardt's email overview of this article notes "...Italy’s new government will likely join the list of governments — including those in Hungary, Poland and, yes, the United States — hostile to immigrants and even to democratic values." Maybe my understanding of history is off, but wasn't Italy a fascist country before NAZI Germany? And in Hungary and Poland the populace played a despicable role in the holocaust.
As for Mr. Horowitz's noting that Merkel and Macron "beat back populist and far-right insurgencies," those two aren't exactly flaming lefties.
And I must add, "populist" and "far-right" constitute a redundancy.
Lastly, why are numerous columnists so afraid of the "f-word"? I mean fascist? That word. That is a name that fits, including here in the States. After all, the President called them "fine people."
1
Both Russia and China have big stakes in breaking up the EU. Not good for Europeans but could also be very bad for the US.
4
To group the 5 Star Movement with the far-right in Italy, or to categorize them as just another reactionary group in some pan-European 'Populist' movement, is lazy journalism and disingenuous at best. The mainstream political parties in Italy, when not wholly corrupt, self-serving and nepotistic, are neo-liberal enforcers of the status quo in Europe. They do not offer anything of value or substance to the majority of Italians and they will never be reformed from inside. While 5 Star isn't alway clear or consistent on their positions, they are clear that they represent an alternative to the business as usual, horse-trading, valueless traditional political class in Italy and the true goal of the European project, whose main objective now seems to be protection of open borders for global capital and the import of cheap labor.
58
You are right in most respects, however -- even when business as usual is terrible, it doesn't follow that ANY alternative is good. That's exactly what Berlusconi promised in 1994...and Mussolini before him. I find Cinque Stelle's rhetoric and approach to politics to be resonant with echoes of 1922, and it terrifies me. I do not think the NYTimes is being lazy or irresponsible to flag them for that.
1
I'm an Italian voter and Alec is absolutely on the money. The 5 Star Movement is a strange animal indeed. They are extremely progressive on labor rights, the environment and social protections (they support a basic income). They are protectionist, to a degree, which could make them rightish on trade, but it's nothing that Bernie Sanders wouldn't support. On immigration they're soft-right, which is unfortunate but more part of a kind of an anti-globalism movement than xenophobia. They are not racists and they are not fascists. It's a strange experiment that may turn out to be a disaster or may become a model for parties in Europe (and even the US). Definitely not to be lumped in with Farage or Trump. The world should be watching.
9
I couldn't agree more that Five Star is shown in s strange light in these NYT articles. While I don't know all of the politicians who belong to the party, I can say that my cousin is a Five Star senator and he is one of the most thoughtful, eglaitarian and idealistic people I have ever known. He is not hateful towards immigrants, nor does he have a provincial view of the EU. But he is fed up with Italian politicians and is trying to get a better deal for the average Italian worker. Would all politicians, no matter the country, have as much integrity and passion as him.
13
with the raising of populism around the world is there a third world war soon?
7
Only if the rich and powerful, the 0.01%, want it.
But for the moment they profit more by a relatively peaceful West than by one at war. From a business standpoint it is helpful to the top arms exporters (USA, Russia, China, France, Germany, UK) to have peace within their own borders while they sell to India, Saudi Arabia and the other big buyers.
1
I lived in Italy for 3 months in 1983 when 1600 to 1700 lire bought a dollar. Panini had the thinnest possible amount of protein, and the portion of meat served in restaurants was tiny. Italians seemed poorer (but were quicker to smile) than the citizens of other European countries. After the introduction of the Euro portions of meat served were the equivalent to that of the rest of Europe, except Germany. The quality of life visible to the visitor appeared to improve in all areas,, noticeably in the wonderful train system. The influx of African migrants over the past 5 years, (200,000) last year, with no help from the rest of the EU, is making Italians chafe. There aren't enough jobs for the Italians. They blame the EU for their predicament while forgetting all the past benefits being part of the EU provided. They should not follow in the footsteps of the foolish Brexiteers,
11
This result was hiding in plain sight. With massive youth unemployment, the Italians are fed up with migrants, and this vote clearly shows it.
63
Youth unemployment predates the migrant influx and its roots are completely unrelated. It's the laureati -- architects, lawyers, communications graduates -- who can't find work, and that's hardly the kind of job that refugees and migrants are candidates for.
1
Illiterate and unskilled African immigrants aren't taking jobs from Italian youth. Youth unemployment is generally high across the Euro zone, but characteristics of the Italian economy -- high debt, low productivity, the stark north-south divide -- accentuate the problem. Immigrants may be a problem, but they don't have much bearing on Italy's long-standing economic weaknesses.
1
Looks like Italy is going from bad to worse because fascism always ends in a bad place. The Italians are a perennial mess, but you'd think they might have learned this lesson by now. There's little doubt, however, that the EU has a problem on its hands, especially with the U.S. sidelined by the Trumpist virus.
4
Matter of time: As many Italians said after Brexit, we're next.
20
Maybe Italian voters are a lot smarter than I gave them credit for being.
42
How do you say "We're doomed" in Italian?
6
One more chip at the foundations of the EU. And the winner is . . . Putin.
9
Populism is a dirty word among the US left. It signifies movements of the retrograde and ill-informed. For example, the Tea Party is populist, neo-Nazis are 'far-right'.
Is the Five Star Movement populist? They advocate for direct digital democracy, the end of corruption in politics, a focus on green jobs and sustainable growth. We can see clearly why the owners of society are threatened and wish to portray this as a crisis.
38
Italians, particularly those in the Five Star Movement, should be reminded that many of these immigrants, especially those from Ethiopia and Libya, are consequences of Italy's colonial past, particularly under Mussolini.
The Fascist occupation in north Africa -- accompanied shamefully by the use of poison gas--was hardly benign.
All of the other imperialist countries - England, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium (now there's a horror story!!) and of course, the U.S. in South and Central America, have to answer for their colonial history.
Let them all in!!
6
Let them all in? And then just let them wreak havoc and sow chaos because that's the best way for citizens of African countries to achieve justice? There has to be a better way.
You're based in Florida, apparently. Twenty million people already live there, and it doesn't sound like Florida's public schools and infrastructure are holding up too well under the strain of rapid population growth. Would you like to see all border controls lifted so that the 30 million plus people living in Cuba and Hispaniola can just go to Miami and Tampa at will?
15
Most of the undocumented, illegal migrants arriving on Italy's shores since 2014 are from Gambia, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Congo, Tanzania and Morocco, Algerian and many other countries that Italy did not have any part of. All Africans have been taking advantage of a loophole in EU policy and the former Italian Democratic government's too generous attitude towards the migrants -free logging, free food, free Italian lesson classes and a daily money allowance. And by the way, the countries that Italy did colonize were the better for it. The capital of Eritrea, Asmara, is now recognized as a UNESCO World Heritage Site because of the contributions by Italian architects to that city in the 1930s.
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/jul/08/the-italian-archite...
11
As the child of immigrants in USA, I concur, let everyone in. However, equating migration in Italy with that country’s brief (while no doubt disastrous) colonial past is missing the point, since few if any migrants in Italy come from those particular countries. Moreover, few migrants even want to stay in Italy (nothing to do there) and all the while, Italy still hemorrhage’s tens of thousands of its able bodied young citizens each year. So, yeah, let everyone in, but the reality on the ground is far more complex, because no one who’s in (either by birth or migration) actually wants to be there. Italy needs a total overhaul of its draconian systems if it wants to make it in the 21st century. Doubtful these election results will bring it, but populism there has a far different meaning than it does here.
In Italy, the worst wins again.
Racists, xenophobes, intolerant and ignorant populists, led by greedy, cynical and telegenic leaders have won the elections and are again the majority in parliament and in the country.
The left does not change, does not innovate, quarrels, splits and loses.
Does it sound familiar to you, America?
18
People often long for a so-called strong leader when things are chaotic. This is how Mussolini came to power in Italy.
I guess, Italians need a break from democracy.
3
... and the right wing Alternative for Germany is now the largest opposition party.
This is good news for those who worry about jihadi attacks in Europe and about the destruction of German and Judeo-Christian culture.
44
If 'Western Culture' equates to the anti-intellectual cult of mindless conformist action that was Italian fascism, then count me out. Don't get me wrong - fascism was chock full of ideas. They were just stupid ones born of ignorance, fear, and the cult of death that followed WW1, and they ultimately led to physical, mental, social, and cultural destruction. Not the right path forward.
17
This election result in Italy is the culmination of a disaster that began 7 years ago when NATO leaders decided to overthrow the government of Libya without giving much thought to who or what would take Qaddafi's place. As Libya devolved into chaos, an essential buffer zone separating Italy from strife-ridden, poorly governed sub-Saharan African countries was erased. In a real sense, what Italy has faced coming out of Libya since 2011 is what a borderless world looks like.
Many people had a bad feeling about the Libyan intervention when it started in March 2011. They were right to be worried. I can't really comprehend the mentality of some people online who are basically gleeful at the thought of Italy and other European countries facing a flood of migrants from Africa on the grounds that they must now pay for the past sins of Western imperialism on that continent.
If that's what you really care about, then you should be pressing Italy and other European countries to provide the kind of carefully planned and coordinated foreign aid programs that will make life better for Africans in their native countries so that they don't feel tempted to flee through lawless Libya to Lampedusa Island (Italian territory) in the Mediterranean Sea.
This kind of targeted economic aid is exactly what the government of Japan used in the 1980s to help other Asian countries, in part to *prevent* too many citizens of Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. from going to wealthy Japan for work.
79
And for the record, the much-maligned Silvio Berlusconi was against the Libyan intervention. He knew better than most that Qaddafi, while repulsive and brutal, had also become by 2011 a partner in stopping Libya from turning into a way station for unimpeded migration into the EU from sub-Saharan Africa.
30
It sure looks like it the same picture in Syria.
This is correct. Berlusconi warned his NATO allies of the consequences of toppling Qaddafi, but France and (to a lesser extent, Britain and the US) were too eager to "punish" Qaddafi for past crimes and transgressions (terrorism against the French commercial airliner, Pan Am 111, shipping munitions to the IRA, etc.). Additionally, France wanted to get rid of Qaddafi who was viewed as being to "close" to Italy/Berlusconi in commercial relations, hoping that France would get a much larger piece of the Libyan oil market under different leadership.
Qaddafi was a dangerous thug who deserved what he got, but the vacuum and internal strife which replaced him only made matters much, much worse, especially for Italy. The moral of the story is that it is dangerously short-sighted and reckless to overthrow one government without making the necessary human and financial investments to ensure a satisfactory transition to a "better" successor government. This, however, would have required a UN Mandate for a transitional European Military Government in Libya for at least a generation, to foster the creation of stable institutions and to extirpate terrorist and extremest elements from the country. What countries would have been prepared to pay the gigantic costs of such an endeavor???
3
I lived in Milan, Italy for 10 years, 1969-79. During that time, the biggest threats to the Christian-Democrat status quo were "Comunnisti,' tons of labor strikes, and the rise of terrorist groups, including the Brigati Rossi, culminating in the assassination of Prime Minister Moro.
It's sad to see a founding member of the Euro experiment devolve into 1930s type factions, embracing strongmen (Putin) and demagogic politicians like Salvini. My sense is that Italians are allowing short memories to help neofascism regain strength in a country long beset by political instability.
The difference now is that the rise of right-wing groups in Italy affects more than politics in Rome. It's another threat to a united Europe, as well as an opening for Putin.
I feel like I'm seeing my life in review, happening all over again, as the post-World War II order continues to crumble and those who can't remember history are doomed to repeat it.
29
I have very serious doubts that a "united Europe" will survive. Europe is being overwhelmed by the intersection of three extraordinary toxic forces which are very likely to unravel the "Union":
1. Uncontrolled influx of destitute people from third world countries, who are creating not only security problems (crime, etc.), but also taxing government resources (health care, housing, employment) to the breaking point. This creates fear and resentment among "traditional" Europeans (white, Christian, etc.) who correctly believe that Europe can simply not afford to integrate such a large influx of peoples in such a short period of time, most of whom are unskilled, many of whom don't speak the language, and some of whom (extremest muslims) are in serious conflict with the prevailing culture.
2. Rampant and spreading globalization, which is forcing European economies to compete with third world countries and adapt to a radically changed economic reality, and
3. Coping with a single currency which is unable to regulate the economic and financial needs of the weaker countries and forcing increasingly painful financial strictures ("austerity") which lead to impoverishment, hopelessness and social strife.
5
The defeat of the evil ideologies of WWII did not eliminate their abstract ideas (as Albert Camus's daughter recently pointed out in an interview). Peace, frustrating prosperity, and the passage of time give those abstract ideas new appeal and new clothing that mask their inevitably destructive end.
We have used technology to develop weapons that could destroy more than the in the past where young men, innocent civilians, and accumulated capital assets were the primary losses. This time it could be civilization as we know it.
1
It's easy to wag a finger at European anti-immigrant sentiments and actions - I've done it in the past - but to people anywhere who cherish their ethnic traditions, yearn for the norms that hold their societies together and want newcomers to embrace, the uncontrolled influx of immigrants, particularly the desperate, unskilled, uneducated and culturally illiterate in terms of their host country's language and social mores, such chaotic unregulated invasions of people are traumatic and frightening. No one knows if it will end, few see any place for the newcomers in their society, and every example suggesting they are indeed the "other" foments the kind of fear-based reactions hard-right and populist forces created by anti-immigrant anger. The nations responsible for immigrants' misery ought to fund a kind of Marshall Plan to rebuilt their homelands, not simply relegate them to marginal make-do lives in the West.
115
@Mark Hugh Miller: it's a commendable idea but what leverage would the west have over the Middle East after decades of nonstop wars and terrorism in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and other countries? These places are so decimated politically that it's hard to know who has the authority to make this happen.
5
A good point, ChristineMcM; the execution would pose challenges the Marshall Plan didn't face. If we had leadership up to those challenges, the US might be able to make the case that such an approach -- call it a "healing" effort -- would benefit the sponsors as well as the recipients. But as you note our credibility among nations has been declining since George W. Bush and his Neo-con enablers invaded Iraq for reasons he and that discredited crew still can't articulate.
5
"...fund a kind of Marshall Plan to rebuilt [sic] their homelands, not simply relegate them to marginal make-do lives in the West."
Wow - amazing to think of what my immigrant ancestors did with their "make-do" lives in the US.
3