Other than "The Wall", there are so many issues that the USA and Mexico could and should be discussing: Creating conditions for economic growth on BOTH sides of the border, cooperation in minimizing drug trafficking throughout the Region, discussing the best ways to manage Temporary Visas for agricultural workers, etc. Instead, Trump feels he has to "score points" in popularity with his "base" in any discussion with Mexico... preferring NOT to consider that a "stronger Mexico" would actually alleviate immigration issues in the USA! Trump is all about putting on a show, and a pathetic one, I might add, which will never lead to any productive discussions.
3
The great mystery, unanswered in your story is why the Mexican President or any other Mexican would want to talk with President Trump about anything at all?
Do the Mexicans need the US, beyond the trade which will continue despite Mr. Trump?
If I were the President of Mexico, I would simply run my country, allow migrants to cross it into the US, if they are headed that way, and ignore Trump just as many of Trump's countrymen are doing.
1
It's Obama's fault that Mexico is unwilling to pay for the wall. What other explanation could there be?
7
The transcripts of Trump's conversations with Nieto and Trumbull show clearly how low-level and stupid Trump is. The foreign leaders must have thought the Onion was pranking them because surely no US President could be so dumb and ill-informed. Turnbull sounds as though he is speaking to a child.
5
This is so much like Charlie Brown and Lucy's football: the Mexicans come to the bargaining table in good faith, as neighbors, and have all previous bargaining and promises ripped away. Every time.
Trumpy is impressively, consistently unreliable - some "negotiator"! He pitches a hissy fit when he doesn't get his way, and cries about being made to look a fool in front of his fans - after he's lied, stolen, cheated, and bloviated to impress them.
3
In an early campaign rally Trump said something like, "Mexican immigrants are thugs and rapists." The crowd roared in approval of this surprising statement from a presidential candidate. Then he said, "We're gonna build a wall to keep them out." The crowd roared louder and Trump, bloated with pride at the success of his words, yelled into the microphone, "And we're gonna make Mexico pay for it!" As we know well, the crowd went crazy.
But that's it. From this, and many rally repeats of this, Trump believes with seeming certainty that the US has spoken. He laid it on Nieto a year ago and was furious when Nieto said the idea was ridiculous, insulting and in no way would he pay for a wall. Obviously Trump thought Nieto just needed some time to think about it. Now a year later, Trump again lays it on Nieto. Nieto again indicates the idea is ridiculous. Again Trump is furious.
It's so pathetic, it's laughable. Nieto and his people are surely laughing and shaking their heads. What are we gonna do with this weirdo who sits at the head of our great nation?
7
Why should Mexico get off with just paying for the wall? Let's have them pay to renew our nukular arsenal, too. And while they're at it, what about our roads, our harbors, and the levees around our coastal cities? All that needs to be paid for, and I know nuestro presidente is strong enough to get Mexico to put up the pesos.
Hey, why should we ever pay for anything? Donnie never did.
4
Mexico did not interfere in 2016 American Presidential campaign and election.
Unlike Mr. Putin, the foes of Mr. Neito do not end up in prisons, hospitals, mental institutions, urns and coffins.
Unlike a majority of Russians a majority of Mexicans are mestizo, mulatto, African, Garifuna and Native brown, black and Catholic.
4
Mexico should slap a tarriff of 15% on all goods crossing the border into the US, then use the $$$ to erect a wall 1 mile South of the border. Embarrassing Trump 2X by having Mexico build the wall and the US pay for it.
You can't make this stuff up!
3
It is more accurate to describe Trump as ignorant, rudderless and impulse-driven. Oddly he has got his way all along. This totally chaotic person has come so far that we have to ask the evangelicals whether he is on a mission from God to punish and diminish the US for its huge catalogue of wrong doings around the word. Don't be partisan. Just look and listen to Trump carefully. Don't listen to those who attack him and those who defend him. Just sit back and calmly draw your own conclusion.
1
Let Donald gather all of his evangelical, gun toting supporters and bus them down to start policing the border. They'll shoot everyone and then pray over the bodies. How sad to be ashamed of the country where i live.
5
Never make promises with other people's money. It's a pretty simple rule. If you can't follow that rule, then at least never humiliate people in public while making promises with their money. Okay, then - if that fails, at least never promise to do something stupid with the money you've promised that belongs to other people.
Aaand here we are.
3
Bickering?!? If I were Pena, I'd write Trump off completely. What country in their right mind would agree to pay for a border wall proposed by their neighbor? (For that matter, what country in it's right mind would elect someone who made such a ridiculous promise?) This is the hubris and insanity and entitlement that is Trump. We must vote Democratic in November.
3
I have a much different concern. It seems to have become commonplace that the details of conversations between a US president and another foreign leader are leaked to the public. It is impossible for sensitive international discussions to occur without assurances of absolute confidentiality. Oh, it may delight many in the short run. But be careful what you wish for. Once the confidential assurance are gone, they are gone forever, and forever will impede sensitive high level discussions. A future Democratic president will face such impediments. What may seem good for one side now is destructive to our country in the long run.
1
Good for Pena Nieto. He should refuse to visit Washington until we get another president less moronic than the blowhard who now stinks up the White House. Trump's repeated lies about his stupid wall are as fallacious as his assertion that "even if I didn't have a weapon I would rush in and take out the Parkland shooter." Even if he did have a weapon Corporal Shin Splints would be cowering under the desk where he issues meaningless executive orders like "Red Flags."
5
Well we are back in the "crazy" lane again.
6
Preposterous.
Why doesn't Trump demand Russia pay for our nuclear missiles?
Why not get China to pay for our cyberdefense?
Shouldn't Canada pay for our northern wall?
#WorstPresidentEver
8
Just shows, again, what an incompetent imbecile this blowhard is, holding to that stupid idea of the impractical and ridiculously expensive wall that won't resolve our immigration problems.
10
Donald Trump, America's Liar-In-Chief, gets ticked off when a leader of another nation refuses to play along with one of his mega-whoppers? Wow! Most script writers couldn't come up with something as nutty as that. But, it does raise a more serious issue. Who in the White House goes along with this idiot's lies? And then...why?
I've never seen an individual try so hard for so long to disprove the old adage that you can't fool all the people all the time.
7
Wasn't the Berlin wall built by East Germany/USSR? The Great Wall of China by the Chinese and Hadrian's wall built by well... Hadrian?
I notice some commonalities: First: every wall ends up being a useless waste of time and money; and Second: the owner pays for it.
Now of course, what -if nothing at all- does our current president know about history?
8
Just another instance in which our moronic "leader" demonstrates his puny, petulant, unrefined nature. Hang tough, Señor Peña Nieto; don't give in to his bullying.
9
"The presidents were hoping to use Mr. Peña Nieto’s visit to Washington to sign a number of bilateral treaties covering the drug fight, border issues and other matters, and to discuss trade, including the status of their efforts to renegotiate Nafta..."
Scuttled because of one juvenile campaign promise to build a useless wall.
9
"Mexico a long term ally " according to the NYT ..really sure if you do not mind the gutting of the manufacturing ( along with China) base of the US and the uncontrolled illegal movement across the boarder, the increased criminal activity of " undocumented " aliens. Some ally.
1
Manufacturing doesn’t die or relocate because of government policies. These are decisions made by corporation owners based on economics. Only a fool would blame the Mexican government for us companies’ moving there.
3
Trumps idea of Mexico paying for his stupid wall is just that, stupid. It made no sense when he proposed it, it continues to make no sense. If the U.S. wants a wall, build it and pay for it. I could never understand why delusional Trump would even entertain the idea that Mexico would pay for it. So Trump lost his temper during the phone call with Peña Neito? Very presidential! What an incredible embarrassment he is to our country.
9
"Sharp Words?" Good grief, can this president ever learn to be diplomatic?
4
Ask the ranchers in the Southwest, with land that is on the border, if they want a wall running through their property. Trump has forgotten that the cornerstone of capitalism is private property. These private landowners are the original "get government off my back" types and they feel a wall is an intrusion. Even the ranchers that voted for Trump don't want the wall on their property. The wall is a talking point to inspire the GOP base but it is not a realistic proposal.
8
Why would Mexico want to pay for a wall that no Mexicans want and neither do most US citizens? Why would Trump make a promise like that to his loyal followers in the first place? An insane idea from the beginning and very gullible of his followers to think it would happen.
Trump must have known Mexico wouldn't pay - didn't he?
4
Trump's wall is like his other failed enterprises - T casinos, T steak, T vodka, T airline, T university, T......... He is a con man par excellence. Look, he even con himself into the WH. He should be charged. Surely there are crimes all over the place. No wonder he is hiding his tax returns; and doing everything to stop the FBI investigation under Mueller.
3
One option of paying for the border wall is taxing cash transfers, known as remittances, which Mexicans residing illegally in the United States send home to Mexico. The remittances amount to about $25 billion a year. This way the people who make a border wall necessary would end up paying for it.
1
Trump is the one who originated the idea of building "the wall", so he should pay for it out of his own personal wealth!
5
Are you kidding ? The guy is probably broke as he owes so much money to the Russian oligarchs.
4
Great idea! Let the Russian Mob pay for the wall.
2
There must be a loan forgiveness program.
A nit wit refers to a human with all the brains of a louse. Before the last two years I had always thought it was an exaggeration but now I see that nature can produce such a chimera. Will wonders never cease?
6
I don't know what Nieto is thinking.
He seems to have comprehension problems.
What is the point of keep banging your head against the proverbial wall (pun intended)?
Mexicans, other than Nieto, seem to understand that talking to Trump is a waste of time.
2
With the PRI on the brink of major humiliation in the approaching presidential election, the surprise is more that Peña Nieto did not understand that a visit to Washington could never be to Mexico's or to his party's advantage. Electoral strategists in Los Piños must be have been feeling particularly desperate.
Wasn't derailing the visit Trump's sole purpose?
If he had allowed the visit to occur, he would have been asked by every reporter in the US: "Who's paying for the wall, Mr. Con?".
7
The stupidest idea next to voting for the guy who thought it up.
22
Our idiot in chief doesn't get it. There is No wall, won't be a wall. The only wall he'll ever see are the walls surrounding a federal penitentiary.
15
Maybe Trump should propose that the Wall be built to keep the Americans in the US. If he keeps going the way he is, most sane Americans are going to want to leave
6
Personally I've lived in Mexico for the last 23 years and from the outside, I look at U.S. politics and 'leadership' and just shake my head.....
7
Mexico Should pay for the wall. Call it a "Jobs Program." Hey, if we want it built right we will need lots of Mexican workers, right?
More seriously, the shortage of immigrant labor (documented and otherwise) is affecting the lead time in housing construction, the price of chicken, and countless other aspects of our economy. While it was unfair to employ the undocumented as second-class workers without benefits or rights, but we did depend on them to do jobs that go undone today.
We Need immigrants, documented and permanent, not only to do the work that supports our lifestyle, but to pay the taxes that will fund the retirement of our aging population.
14
I don't understand why we should deport daca kids who speak English and are assimilated and then invite 800,000 not English speakers, unassimilated people to come into the U.S. So we can pay them less?
3
I can see why Mexico wants no wall. They would be wise to bring many of their nationals back. This country is screwed up. Who would want to come here now? Mexico could use the well educated and very hard working, skilled Mexican nationals that currently live here. After all the jobs are there now. Remember the jobs have been leaving for years now. People may follow the jobs and go where they are treated better.
8
Trump should not be permitted to speak with any head of state or any foreign leader for the duration of his tenure as president. He's a total liability. There isn't a single relationship with a foreign government that is better or improved since he took office. It's only a matter of time before he declares war on Belgium or completely alienates the Dalai Lama. How many hours until noon on January 20, 2021?
19
Actually I think we don't have to wait that long. His tenure will end long before then.
2
The "base" expects Mexico to pay for the wall. It's easy to make this happen. Just cancel NAFTA and put in tariffs on Mexican agricultural products. I'm sure that the "base" won't notice the increases. Or taxa the "dreamers". Make the price of a green card 1000 dollars a year for 25 years. That would raise one billion dollars a year to pay off the cost of the wall. Who wouldn't jump at the chance to become a legal resident in the United States for 25,000 dollars paid over 25 years! It's a great deal. Trump gets his wall, the base is happy the technically "Mexicans" have paid for it and the dreamers get permanent residency. At the end of 25 years they would just have to pass the citizen ship test and that's that. Win win win for everyone. After all the "base" has no idea that Honduras is a country - they just see Mexicans.
Rgrds-Ross
4
ha-ha! Good ideas! You're hired!
2
Only explanation is that Trump is a nincompoop. Derived from the Latin: non compos mentis (Not of sound mind!)
11
Forget asking Mexico to pay for the wall. In fact, forget about the whole wall. Use technology. Faster better cheaper.
4
Good walls make good neighbors
1
@logodos: What is a "good" wall? In a purely practical basis the wall will not stop people crossing the border . . . ever hear of a ladder? And, 40% of undocumented immigrants arrive by airplane.
On a moral basis the Trump wall fails as well . . . saying to our neighbor --from whom the US stole a third of their country -- that we consider them not fully human. A racial threat. Someday my friend, some situation will arise for which we will need their help. Who is going to pay for the wall that day!
4
Good, someone needs to stand up to Trump and his ridiculous idea of building a wall. What a way to waste money. No only that the fact that he thinks it would be effective shows you the lack of brain power sitting in the oval office.
7
Other commenters have rightly noted that trump is essentially a bully.
Which is another way of saying he's essentially a coward. What are the odds he would loose his temper over a negotiated matter with either Putin or Xi?
7
Humpty Trumpty seems to be cracking over his wall.
8
Humpty Trumpty . . . Oh! I'm using that!
Dear President Nieto, wise choice. Who wants to sit around listening to the incomprehensible drivel coming from the fishy little mouth of a madman?
9
I've never understood why the Democrats don't just tell the insane dotard that he can have his stupid wall when Mexico writes him the check. Hilarity will certainly ensue!
5
Since the illegal immigration is coming from Mexico's side of the border, why shouldn't they be the ones responsible for paying for the wall? They could, of course, help us by decreasing significantly the flow of OTMs into the border area. But then they would be stuck with the problem of their own making, instead of passing the buck to los gringos.
Because the word is "immigration". If we don't don't want people to come INTO this country, it is our job to pay for that. You're proposing for Mexico to pay to prevent people from leaving. That was last done by the eastern bloc communist countries. Or North Korea.
Moreover, the wall is not even a real solution to the problem,k so why would Mexico agree to pay? Trump used it as an election ploy, and decided to promise that Mexico would pay, without any basis in reality. If you fell for that, that's your problem.
19
Well, that is Trump's reasoning. But I guess Mexico doesn't agree. The only problem with his making that promise was that he forgot to ask the Mexicans if they would go along. It's a great campaign line, though, if reality is not part of your thought process.
5
@Galt: Even if someone believes illegal immigration is the existential threat Trump makes it out to be, there's simply no legal mechanism for making Mexico pay for anything at all. Honestly, when Trump was shouting this nonsense during the campaign, did anyone really expect that Mexico was going to reward Trump's unending slander of their entire country and people by cutting a check to the tune of ~$20B?
2
Why would any rational person such as Nieto was his time "negotiating" with a liar? Lyin' Donald insisted over and over as a Vote Pandering Method, that Mexico would pay for the wall. As the time approaches for Lyin' Donald to put up or shut up, as usual he does neither. Shame on those voters who listened to our now Liar In Chief. I'd add "shame on Lyin' Donald" but since lying is his SOP, the poor dotard knows no better and "shame" is outside Lyin' Donald's limited vocabulary anyhow. Sad, so sad for America to be saddled with this embarrassment.
10
I think I would expect to see Disney build a border wall with a high-speed monorail connecting DisneyWorld with DisneyLand before seeing Mexico pay for Donalds wall.
10
Boy, I bet Trump is frustrated at not being able to make Mexico pay for HIS wall as easily as he has been able to make average Americans pay for HIS friends' lifestyles! He acts like a three-year-old who's been denied an ice cream cone.
16
You write that Donald Trump acts like a three-year old who's been denied an ice cream cone. Indeed he does.
Donald Trump is seventy-one years old. But in terms of the way he behaves, he is really only one year old, seventy-one times.
2
Actually my 3 year old behaves better than that. He agrees he will finish his baby burger b4 he gets the ice cream cone. He does not throw a tantrum. She please don't undersell 3 years old. Maybe 2 years old.
1
Nieto should have held his tongue until he had Trump in the room with all the press present and he should have said it there in front of Trump, in front of the cameras what he thought of the wall and the idiocy of public policy around this and other Trump non-ideas.
12
The cancellation of the visit is no loss, nothing positive would have come from it anyway, better to get it over with in a phone call.
World leaders won't meet with Trump, there is no point to it.
Take trade for example, Trump says he is in favor of trade as long as it is fair trade. But then he decides what is fair and what is not, and bases his decisions on the simplistic notion that any trade relationship with a country that has a trade surplus with the US is unfair. in face in evaluating fairness the issue should be whether each country is paying/receiving fair value for the goods and services it is importing/exporting in the relationship. A case could be made that most US trade is exploitative and unfair to its trading partners, that the US is underpaying for much of what it imports. With Trump thinking like he does, why meet with him?
14
Politics 101: Throwing red meat to the crowd by committing yourself to a policy and expecting another country to pay for it does not work.
13
You are assuming there is intelligence in there somewhere. Better think again. Seriously.
I thought Trump said we would start building the wall that xenophobes in the United States wanted on day one and Mexico would pay for it?
I guess that was just another lie . . .
The level of incompetence, stupidity, and delusion, in this Whitehouse is staggering.
I give credit to Kelly for saying that Trump's comments about the Wall ( a standard line in every campaign rant) were "uninformed." That is diplo-speak for "stone-cold stupid."
In many ways, the wall embodies Trump.
It is a waste of money desperately needed for so many other things.
It is xenophobic.
It would not solve the problem he claims it will solve.
He promised it will happen but it never will.
It is contrary to everything America has historically stood for.
So when is it again that we are supposed to get tired of winning? Such stupidity is mesmerizing. To fail so completely by every measure is nothing if not historic. The Trump presidency will end with a wimper and not a bang. Though it could end with a clang - the clang of prison door slamming shut. The sooner the better.
11
Trump is right about one thing: we need to stop illegal immigration.
He won the election because Democrats were denying the obvious: continued illegal immigration is blowing holes in the safety net for America's poor. Thus we see recent stories in the NY Times of skilled nursing facilities evicting patients to homeless shelters. Many of the old, with no insurance coverage, or coverage with high deductibles, do not get cancer screenings and therefore die an early miserable death.
Some among the poor may believe that Obama lied when he suggested during his campaign that he would push for a path to universal health care.
And the reason we can't afford universal health care? It starts with population of 85 million since the Immigration and Reform bill of 1986, which was supposed to end illegal immigration.
Democratic lawmakers are rightly seen as mendacious.
What is needed?
1. The wall is not really needed. We need to negotiate with Mexico to get cooperation with Mexico so that people don't want to leave.
2. That includes requiring free access to family planning and abortion in Mexico in exchange for continued trade via NAFTA.
3. In the US, we need to introduce a one-child policy for Americans on welfare, so that population stabilized.
4. We need family unification that unifies as many families in Mexico as in the US.
5. And above all, we should stop denying the impact of population growth.
It is increasing income disparity in the US, and causes global warming.
3
@Jake Wagner: Look, at least YOU have clearly put some thought into what you're saying (although some of it could go horribly wrong depending on implementation). But it's neither here nor there.
The fact of the matter is that Trump's plan for the border, AS PRESENTED, was completely dependent on another country simply giving the U.S. tens of billions of dollars. I still have my doubts anyone genuinely believed that would happen. Secondly, there's a difference between a leader being willing to take a hard look at the economic effects of immigration on our country's social safety net and Trump's indulgence of every racist and xenophobic bit of rhetoric that pops into his head. YOU, for instance, have managed to give your point of view without asserting that illegal immigrants are sent by Mexico to steal, murder and rape U.S. citizens. That already puts you light years ahead of Trump by default. Lastly, your concerns for our nation's social safety indicate that YOU at least acknowledge the necessity/desirability of such safety nets. It is not at all clear Trump or the GOP make any such acknowledgment. To hear the GOP tell it, the poor are just lazy con artists; the 47% "takers" who have it too easy. If they can't afford healthcare it's because they spend all their money on iPhones. Theirs is a dubious moral objection to helping the poor. It is wholly distinguishable from your economic concerns and would exist even if all the GOP's immigration wishes came true.
I have the best solution of all. Bulletproof, can't even be debated, and doesn't cost the government a plug nickel.
Stop hiring them, and they'll stop coming. Simple enough, even for Trump?
2
One can state that the flow of drugs across our southern border will not abate until the demand problem north of the Rio Grande disappears. It's a bit fallacious as Americans aren't going to start growing coca plants in Tennessee.
One can equally argue that successive Mexican governments have been absolutely useless when it comes to battling the drug cartels, which have simply taken over large swathes of the country. The corruption is staggering, the cartels are ruthless, and the military and politicians would rather be paid off than risking their lives fighting what seems to be an insurmountable foe with limitless resources.
Another intractable problem with no realistic solution on the horizon. Ravaging not just Mexico but many of the countries to their south.
2
Trump did not "demand" that Mexico pay for the wall that he would build. He promised that to the American voters. Now he must either deliver on that promise or repudiate it.
The odds of either event happening are somewhere below nil.
6
Donald is absurd. Why would Mexico pay for a wall?! It's not in their interests at all and ultimately they don't really care about Trump's campaign promises. If Mexican presidential candidate front-runner Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is elected this summer, Trump will truly discover that his US campaign promises mean nothing to Mexico.
5
I´m proudly Mexican; I had the chance to get my graduate degree in Philadelphia (The Wharton School), have worked in Dallas, Tx for a Mexican company and in Mexico for an US company; two of my children were born in the United States, and the other is a legal USA resident.
All my life, I have seen the US as a second home contry where I learned so much about critical citizenship and personal liberties and where I loved to vacation as much as I could, and, honestly, I cannot recognize the USA of today.
How long will you, US citizens, stand doing nothing about a person I used to like a lot when he was featured by David Letterman in his show and who turned out to be such a lier and a danger for you as a nation?.
8
Amen, brother!
I am an American who spends a significant percentage of the year in Mexico. I've reached a point where I am embarrassed to meet people socially in Mexico because of the horrible behavior of Humpty Trumpty and his collection of right-wing thugs. To my surprise, I find that with only a tiny fraction of Mexicans hold individual Americans accountable for our dysfunctional country. I am so grateful that Mexican culture is so polite and kind . . . it makes me ashamed for my own country.
1
Trump admitted the wall was nothing more than an applause line during the campaign. That he's still talking about it is odd, but then again he's still talking about Crooked Hillary and crowd sizes.
10
How many people have taken the perspectve of what effective that the building of a wall between North America and Central and South America will have? What is it telling the peoples of Central and South America, generally? The world for that matter? May it not be a diversion of what needs to be done to those creating the market conditions, the demands, for drugs and crime on this side of the border? Does it not feed on an underlying ethnocentrism, my ancestry-is-better-than-yours, of some in the past, played, manipulated, by people in office desperate for votes, even from extremists?
How many would like to be privy to the conversation between Nieto and Trump? To hear the inflection and intonation? Would it be surprising that Nieto might not be somewhat on the defensive? How many in the U.S. have really contemplated what a wall separating North America from Central and South America would do, signify? Is not the idea of a wall a diversion from addressing the market conditions, the demand, for drugs and crime in the U.S.? Is it not, too, playing on old evils, ethnocentrisms, to garner votes regardless from where?
1
its really sad when more Americans are on he the side of Mexico"s President, than the one living at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. We don't think a wall makes any sense, certainly not at the price tag that's been mentioned. So why would we expect our southern neighbor to foot the bill. The truth is that we need to fix the security issues at our schools across the country. These mass shootings have been carried out by American born citizens, not one illegal. Spend my tax dollars on schools not walls.
4
Good! Keep the "president" of the oligarchy run criminal enterprise that is Mexico out of the US until that they stop setting up funded hostel staging areas just short of the border to facilitate the invasion of our nation. Mexico is a hostile enemy state that orchestrates the invasion of our nation and they should be treated like an enemy in a war and denied of all trade and cash benefits that come from this country.
1
What mexicans remember even if Americans do not is the very first time President Trump used his authority to commute federal sentences he did so for the president of an Iowa meatpacking plant raided by INS for emplying nearly 400 unauthorized workers, most of the Guatemalans and some of them children. Donald Trump is harsh with people working without authorization but defends their employers. He opposes family reunification immigration except where it benefits his own in-laws. He buries queries regarding possible illegal work by his own wife prior to obtaining a work permit. In other words President Pena Nieto is very aware the Trump position on immigration is driven by political posturing, not principle. Otherwise why commute 18 years still to be served by someone alleged to be the largest employer of undocumented workers in the state of Iowa? It is hardly surprising that when President Trump decides it is inconvenient to talk about the wall, thereby reminding his supporters he seeks to stick them with a $25 billion+ project he claimed Mexico would pay for, President Pena Nieto is required to remain quiet. Pena Nieto's party ranks third in polling for the presidential election of July, 2018, and just as Donald Trump wants to make political points railing against Mexican immigrants Pena Nieto looks for ways to score points with Mexican voters by defending immigrants. And Mexicans understand Trump's posturing is to hide the fact that he supports employers breaking American law
3
!st round: Trump promises Mexico will pay for the wall.
2nd round: Pena Nieto makes it clear that Mexico won't pay for the wall
3rd: round: Trump begs Pena Nieto to just say publicly that Mexico will pay for the wall, even if they won't.
4th round: Pena Nieto cancels a meeting over proposal for 20% important tax to pay for wall. Trump has tantrum. (tantrump?)
5th round: Pena tells Trump it's time to acknowledge that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall. Trump has tantrum.
Pena Nieto - 5
Trump - 0
44
Tantrump! Love it!
3
The "wall as policy" issue emerged as a useful political foil during Donald Trump's 2016 campaign. He promoted it for political purposes. it is hardly surprising that President Pena Nieto, watching his party lagging badly during the current presidential campaign in Mexico, seeks to project himself as a stalwart defender of its citizens vis-a-vis political attacks by President Trump. If Trump can make this a political issue it is legitimate for Pena Nieto to do the same. Pena Nieto miught remind Trump the wall will be of little use in dealing with drug trafficking as most drugs come through the legal ports of entry in the thousands of cargo trucks entering daily. We need more exhaustive inspection of cargo but instead inspectors are sent to the desert to watch for farmhands and kitchen help. In other words the misuse of agents by Border Control and Inspection facilitates drug entry. And while ICE threatens Dreamers it does little to deal with employers who are hiring unauthorized workers. Were the US to spend 10 percent of what the wall will cost on prosecution of those hiring people without documents the issue would largely resolve itself because there would not be jobs for the undocumented. The wall is a fraud intended to distract from the Trump administration's tolerance for drug trafficking and its unwillingness to prosecute employers. Ironically President Trump feeds support for the left-of-center Mexican presidential candidate who pledges to stand up to the bully.
5
I wish I could vote for him. At least here is one politician willing to stand up to Trump.
3
The Wall is a political whim of a demagogue. It's an idiocy, a white elephant. A bait for rubes and an insult to a friendly neighbor. Won't solve anything and will cost a fortune. Why should Mexico pay for it? Why should the American taxpayer? Why should anyone, for that matter, except Trump himself? If he's so keen to the idea, if he's sooooo rich, let him pay for it out of his own pocket. I bet he'll drop the issue in a nanoinstant.
25
Carlos Slim, far richer than Trump, should pay for wall.
1
Who in his right mind would assume that he could erect a fence around his yard and require his neighbors to pay for it? That kind of suit would be thrown out of court before it was ever heard. Trump made this promise without any thought — his usual technique — because it sounded tough on the campaign trail. His ignorant supporters didn’t think about the consequences either. Now the United States is hamstrung legislatively because the wall is a insurmountable obstacle to reasonable immigration policy, and we look foolish internationally, all because of a childish and unqualified president and his ignorant supporters.
19
Does not Mexican President Nieto understand he is going to pay for the wall. Whenever the Donald speaks it is the truth he has not lied in his life. He would also have charged at that gunman in the school and saved all those students. After all this is a man who was a coward during the Vietnam War. Also a man that knows there were three million illegal votes against him did he not appoint a commission to prove that point. Oh, that's right the commission disappeared. A man who wants a giant not big, but giant military parade so the troops can march by and salute a coward. Making America Great one nutty day after another. Jim Trautman
30
3 million illegal votes? Tin foil hat time. I thought Trump should've been impeached by now with all that Russian "hacking"? And I don't blame him or anyone else for draft dodging the Vietnam War. A disgraceful conflict that is one of the most shameful events in US History.
Stay salty my friend. #trump2020
During the 2016 Trump kept on lying about to his supporters that Mexico will pay for the wall -- then and now he knew that a lie and stirred up his racist base.
11
What an embarrassment Trump is.....
21
Reality check no loss on united states we dont need any more of mexico,s criminal sent to us via government of mexico. Party is over for mexico time they take responsibilty for own criminals.
One point being ignored is basically 100% of the security, military, border experts. (Including General Kelly) agree in many and actually most places ( ie open areas) a physical wall is far less efecient and cost effective than drones, motion and vibration sensers, observation towers in some combination.
That modern technology has far oustripped Drumphs brilliant plan of the Roman, Chinese wall of 1100 AD a big WALL!! And Donnie cant focus, or understand this,
6
Another day, another nation Trump has alienated from our USA. Making America hated again.
24
mexico is a pretty disgusting govt. they kill journalists. they put down indigenous people's movements. they are kleptocrats who work with drug lords. also, trump ran on the idea of mexico paying for the wall. i'm happy with him telling the president of mexico it will happen. it's keeping a promise. remember: trump doesn't work for that horrible mexican govt. he works for us.
3
As a mexican citizen, I tell you: If Trump wants a wall between Mexico and USA, Mexico is not going to pay it.
5
You are right, Mexico is a disgusting "govt.". they killed indigenous people and even had a "trail of tears", they imprisoned their countrymen with Japanese ancestry during WWII, they even used a nuclear bomb during that war, they had their entire south generate wealth from slavery, they even had segregation all through the 50's, including their schools....oh, wait. That was the U.S. Must have been during the
"Great" times trump wants to bring back.
5
We don't have a real President.
Under Article II, Section 1 of the United States Constitution, the President must "have attained to the Age of thirty five Years." The Founding Fathers intended that the highest office in the land not be held by someone with the emotional maturity of a child.
Trump can't even talk to a world leader without acting like a childish brat.
30
I do want to fall into the trap of supporting the Mexican political establishment simply because I do not like Trump. The Mexican political establishment is mired in corruption that is not helping the people of Mexico. What I find regrettable is that the US can no longer say that it is any better. The Trump administration is among the most corrupt in history, with industry lobbyists holding many key positions in government. It also features a significant extra-legal component, with coordinated campaigns to undermine law enforcement and the press, not to mention clear evidence of multiple shady connections to a hostile foreign power. It is no surprise that an administration like this would end up in a completely pointless quarrel with the Mexican president over a wall that not even the US congress will support. Is Trump really so stupid or deluded that he thinks that he can "negotiate" funding for the wall from a Mexican president? It seems that way because otherwise there is no point in bringing it up. This level of delusion alone should be sufficient grounds for impeachment.
28
we should cut off foreign aid to mexico to pay for wall. most of that foreign aid money goes to buying sports cars and minks for the leaders anyway...
Pena Nieto probably suspected that his insistence on arguing with Trump over the issue of who would pay for the proposed border wall would make for a tough phone call and likely lead to cancelling the visit. But what choice does he really have? Trump created this issue during his campaign, publicly humiliating our neighbor to the south. When you get right down to it, this is the problem with Trump's simplistic and belligerent approach to foreign policy: it creates a barrier to making progress on a whole host of issues. Ironically, this border wall may make the U.S. less safe.
18
our neighbor to the south is a disgraceful govt of kleptocrats who kill journalists and put down indigenous people's movements. this is good stuff, what trump is doing. these people to the south have a govt they should overthrow...
1
Trump has only himself to blame for making such a ludicrous claim in the first place, and repeating it at every rally during the campaign. He's just so spectacularly thoughtless and stupid.
44
Which is why he went bankrupt 3 times. He doesn't think. He just opens his mouth and babbling nonsense comes out.
2
Donald Trump says Mexico should pay for a border wall because of the drugs that Mexicans are bringing into the USA from south of the border. Mr Nieto says that drugs are streaming into the United States from Mexico to satisfy the demand for those drugs from Americans. Without that demand there would be no problem with the drug traffic. It is illogical that Mexico should have to pay for Mr Trump's wall. I hope that Mr Nieto continues to stand up to Mr Trump on this matter.
11
nieto will fold one way or another. either we will take away foreign aid money or we will tax remittances to mexico.
1
Anyone who has ever built a backyard fence knows the wall is never going to get built as envisioned. In this instance, the first snail darter alone that is discovered will eat up $25 billion in lawyers' bills and many years of legal wrangling before a shovelful of dirt is turned. So it's all show anyway but the Mexicans naturally don't want to be part of it.
11
What the Mexican President should do is pull a trick on Trump from Trumps playbook. Say that Mexico will pay for the wall, after it is built and then do what Trump has done with thousands of US contractors That Trump has hired. Stiff him for the work.
18
Employers are happy with illegal immigration since it provides them with an abundance of employees who are willing to work for low wages. In underpaying their employees, the employers pass the cost of supporting their employees’ families onto the general public.
Rather than enhancing the border wall in a fruitless attempt to end illegal migration, we could require all employers to use “e-verify”, a government program that would let them quickly and easily determine if their employees are allowed to work here. The government could first make sure the “e-verify” program could handle many more requests for information. Then it could explain to everyone how to use it. Next it could require every employer to use it. Those who do not could be initially warned. Any employer who does not could be initially warned, and then given increasingly higher fines. Illegal migrants would be unable to find work, and most would self-deport.
The migrants, who have been illegally living here, have been learning how society can function outside of their own countries. Now they can take what they have learned to return home and better their own countries. American philanthropies helped start and continue to support social service agencies which organize the undocumented to make demands of our government. They could, instead, organize the undocumented to return to their homes to make demands of their own governments.
2
The Ford Foundation, The Open Societies Foundation and some other philanthropies have been using their tax-free money in an attempt to re-engineer our definition of ourselves as a country. They want us to accept and offer citizenship to undocumented economic migrants. The Ford Foundation gave seed money to help start The Council de la Raza, now known as Unidos USA. Ford and other philanthropies provide on-going support to Unidos USA and other social service agencies which organize the undocumented. The agencies organize the undocumented to make demands of our government. Why don’t the agencies organize the undocumented to return to their own countries to make demands of their own governments? The undocumented could help organize their countrymen to end government corruption and liberalize their economies.
The philanthropies could also make micro-loans to the undocumented to buy tools, equipment, or do what would be necessary to start their own one-person businesses in their own countries. Our government would save so much money when we no longer have to subsidize the daily lives of undocumented migrants, that we could contribute a small proportion of the savings to the endeavor.
The people who have been illegally living in the U.S. could return to their own countries to improve them and to start new lives. Otherwise, more and more of their countrymen and women will give up on their own countries, and illegally migrate to ours.
Even his distractions are failing.
20
Maybe Pena Nieto should pull a page out of trumps lying handbook and tell him no more people will cross. It's as good as done. He will take care of it.
9
In the first months of this inane idea of building a wall, the President fell back on the excuse of prototypes being built. Well the prototypes have been ready for about two months now. Why hasn't the stable genius even looked at them and made a decision by now? Oh! silly me. That would mean making a decision. Much better to just wait and see how things turn out.
7
During the call," Mr Trump lost his temper." Poor,sad,stupid behaviour which makes Donny and America look bad. Was it Tillerson who was said to have called him a moron? Things many wish they had said first
35
Most people said it during the GOP nomination campaign.
3
Use a world former Mexican President Vincente Fox probably used. "Loco"
2
If trump is so bent on building a wall along the Mexican border, I suggest he sell the trump tower on New York's 5th Avenue. The fake-hair can get enough money for the tower and start building his dumb wall without imposing financial pain on Mexicans or American tax-payers, and New Yorkers would be glad to rid themselves from the trump name on 5th Avenue, since he is not liked in the city at all.
19
With all the soul-killing things that Trump is doing to America and the American people, he just might have to build a wall to keep us in!
22
The stable genius and Art of the Deal maker is nothing but a grifter and liar who looks like a joke on the world stage.
56
The Emperor clothes!!!
1
The Wall is a 7th century solution to an internet age problem. Maybe Mr. Trump wants to install vats of boiling oil on top as they did in days of yore to keep out the marauding hordes.
Smugglers will still use tunnels, ultra-light aircraft, shallow draft boats and drones to bring in illegals and drugs. In the case of drugs, drop a packet with a GPS homing device from a drone for quick pick up. Easy. Hard to detect.
We need a national ID card with iris scan and finger print biometrics. No ID card. No job. Period. No petty arguments, foot stomping and hissy fits from Mr. Trump required. Our illegals problem will vanish. It's well worth the investment. Banks issue millions of chip cards and replacement cards every month. The GOP will not want this however, as the card will be automatic voter ID and all of their voter suppression work will be for naught.
Drugs is a tougher issue but legalization of pot will go a long way.
14
My suspicion is that Trump doesn't really care about the wall, but knows that his base does. In an odd way, this is something of a political victory for Trump: he looks good to his base (always his first consideration), and he doesn't actually have to build an expensive and useless wall.
Pena-Nieto is posturing as well: he's highly unpopular, embroiled in corruption scandals, etc., so this gives him a chance to appear as a strong leader, standing up to the bully. He's the one who "broke the rules" here: the ground rules for this call were that the conversation would stay away from sticking points and focus on areas of possible agreement. Pena-Nieto wouldn't give up on the wall issue.
These guys deserve each other...
2
I don't see how Mexico can win in a war of words. This strengthens Trump, especially with his base.
3
I’ve never really understood the visceral nature of this disagreement: it’s eminently resolvable, and Peña Nieto doesn’t actually need to do anything.
Trump could agitate for Congress to impose a federal sales tax on corn tortillas and spiced horse meat, levied geographically from Napa down to the border, covering the entirety of north-central and southern California; and use the proceeds to fund construction of the wall.
In this way, Trump could credibly claim that the wall had been paid for by Mexican citizens, and Peña Nieto could respond that technically this may be so, but that it wasn’t paid for by citizens Mexico cared a fig about.
1
Except it would actually be paid for by Americans buying these products. I don't know about the spiced horse meat. Isn't eating horse meat illegal in the U.S.? It is complicated: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/food/wp/2017/07/14/could-congress-pu...
Anyway, I don't know why anyone from anywhere meets with Trump. He will lie to your face. He will promise the moon and deliver a dirt clod. He is not reliable. He doesn't remember what he said (or thought?), or promised five minutes ago.
19
Maybe if older, richer, crustier white guys with Leave It To Beaver senses of humor voted for a progressive taxation system instead of a feudal one, the USA would have enough to responsibly manage its borders and immigrants.
Maybe if our Corporate Randian Congress mandated and paid for a functioning E-verify system instead of ignoring it for the last 20 years, the problem would've already been largely solved.
Instead, we get endless 1% welfare and endless illegal immigration because Greed Over People doesn't want to pay for good government...or for market wages.
Nice GOPeople.
15
Socrates:
I'm deeply offended. I'm not that old.
We HAVE steeply progressive taxation, and the lack of funding for an effective eVerify system can be lain at the feet of Democratic as well as Republican congresses.
Mexico is not going to pay for the wall. That is clear. If the Administration insists on this stupid and unnecessary wall, we the American taxpayers will be forced to pay for it.
26
Mexico seemed unwilling to pay for Elmer Fudd’s human personas wall??? Go figure. Well Nieto need not be to terribly concerned, Elmer has largely given up on Mexico paying for his needless, reckless and baseless campaign promise and is presently attempting to hold the U.S. taxpayer hostage by squeezing the wall in the yet to be passed budget bill. Funny...where’s the Tea Party when you need them??? After riding Obama for 8 consecutive years of responsible, respectable and laudable adult governance, they disband when the party that believes deficits are the way to fund a government control every lever of the government????
19
Trump is free to build any wall he wants. BUT, HE has to pay for it. Or---rather---Trump will make US taxpayers pay for it. UNACCEPTABLE!!
I´m tired of Trump. Tired of his bullying our neighbors & friends. Tired of his tantrums. Tired of using the White House to stuff his family´s/friends' pockets. Tired of his sexcapades.
Tired...Tired.
Cannot wait to vote in Nov.
75
First, Trump needs to start paying for his luxury, lavish, billionaire style, taxpayer-funded excessive holidays. And pay for his kids holidays and foreign business trips.
Then he could finally show us those tax returns. I can't help but wonder sometimes but that if he had released those returns as a candidate early whether we might not be so mired in dysfunction and despair, as we are now.
Then we still should pay for the wall either. He is not acting in good faith.
2
While it's nice to see Pena-Nieto has grown a backbone when it comes to the present US administration, it will take more than insistent phone calls to make up for the red carpet he used to welcome then-candidate Trump to Mexico during the campaign. Even then Trump was touting his wall -- and who would pay for it. Pena-Nieto still has much to atone for.
6
it is good to see him taking action against the orange threat.
3
Well, the other issue is Trump's embarrassment before his supporters, were he to fail to get Mexico to pay for his absurd wall. Trump supporters will pay for Trump's wall. It'll be fine for Trump, who could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and still have the Right Wing worship him. Trump should just move on and try to achieve some sort of effective relationship with Mexico.
Trump supporters don't understand the level of ineptitude in the Trump administration. Trump wants to gain respect from the leaders of the world but he can't even unify the countries in our hemisphere, making enemies of them. Now *that* is embarrassing.
14
Trump supporters think that any problems Trump is having are either caused by Obama or Hillary Clinton. It's not his fault.
12
NOTHING is Trump's fault. Ask him...he will cheerfully tell you so.
4
I have some sympathy for Trump here: he wanted to address a series of bilateral issues and had been led to believe that this was the purpose of the phone call. It turned out to be focused excessively on Peña Nieto’s insistence that Trump publicly walk back a campaign tactic he used to energize his base during the last election. As both Americans and Mexicans have an abundance of OTHER bilateral issues to address, it could make sense for the two teams to simply work on formulating agreements on those other issues, and not get their presidents involved except when it comes time to sign them.
2
Peno Nieta wants Trump to plainly state the truth, which is a deep problem for our President, but undeserving of sympathy.
17
Allow me to reframe that, Richard. Trump made a foolish promise to build a wall funded by another country who doesn't even want the wall. (BTW, since when does Trump stay on topic?) I have some sympathy for Pena Nieto for having to deal with our immature excuse for a President. If I was Pena Nieto I would be disgusted and it would be very hard to have a conversation with Trump, Even if Trump promised to do some things that the Mexicans want, he would back track the next week, or day or hour. It is a waste of time to try dealing with King Donald the Dishonest. Perhaps the teams may reach reasonable agreements but Trump will demand to add on that the Mexicans must pay for the wall in order to get the other things. Then all bets would be off.
12
Funny, seems to me you always have sympathy for Trump.
3
Anyone in a position to “negotiate”with Trump should just decline to do so because he is unreliable, a liar, and unwilling to compromise on anything that he feels threatens his infallibility and inflated self regard. Oh yes, don’t forget his need to pander to his moronic base, who won’t stand for any middle ground, preferring a strong, manly (including his female supporters),preferring an in charge” ideological stance.
The pattern for Trump is to feint to the middle, affect a personal connection, and then shaft his counterpart and flat about “winning”—no matter what the outcome is.
The only true strategy is to just ignore him and his tweets.
23
Alternate headline: Mr. Peña Nieto spoke the truth to a toddler who threw a tantrum because didn't get his way.
84
Yet another lesson from the Master Negotiator.
27
A President who always lies is a gift to non Americans wherever they live. What he is to his supporters is a burr under the blanket, and the rest of us are left to wonder how a rational majority will build the wall around him.
Carpe diem.
5
You have to laugh when conservatives allege that President Obama made us a "laughingstock" internationally. Really?
92
Enforcing the wall would not deter illegal immigration. Smugglers have already begun to bring in illegal drugs and migrants by boat. Many smugglers use the same boats typically used by fishermen so they are hard to single out, and ordinary fishermen can make extra money by smuggling. These boats have another advantage. Their shallow drafts allow them to be easily pushed off from or pulled up on shore. Many smugglers depart from Baja California to motor up the coast a little ways to one of the many deserted beaches near San Diego, where they quickly unload and cast off again.
Since 1980, the Latino population in California has increased from 27% to 40% so most of the migrants have no problem blending in with the general population. And, if a police officer happens to notice something unusual, he or she is barred by state law, from asking about a person’s immigration status.
Other smugglers use yachts and more sophisticated boats.
See the Daily Beast’s 8/27/17 article titled "What Will Billions for The Wall Get Us? ‘Boat People’ on America’s Coasts."
1
Same can be said for gun control....It has worked beautifully for DC and Chicago.
Since people can go to another jurisdiction to get a gun, we don't know if better laws would help. The only laws that could work would be national and uniformly enforced. Then we could talk about effectiveness.
5
This wall idea is so dumb, it's unbelievable that so much time and resources are spent on this.
26
The Times, reflecting its owners view and nationalism for Mexico, writes that Mr. Trump "lost his temper" when Pres. Nieto continued bringing up the wall in their discussions. The Time's point of view from this hard news story sides with Mexico at every turn. It's as though they are an organ of the Mexican government. Mexico has taken advantage of the U.S. for years. The third world country doesn't like it when the U.S. fights back.
3
The U.S. has done its share of taking advantage too. In fact, Mexicans have also been taken advantage of many times by the U.S. throughout its history. No one in the world is lily white.
4
Reality has a known liberal bias.
5
Mexico is the bully?
As much as teenagers are bullying the NRA.
17
So Trump the great stable genius who is the biggest bestest deal maker and negotiator strikes again!
18
Pena-Nieto wanted to talk about something for more than the normal 30 seconds of Trumps attention span, and the President Baby started to whine. Maybe Nieto should have offered him two marshmallows if he could focus on one thing for ten minutes..
27
....but impossible to do. The Crestor makes him very tired very early in the day and the cognitive impairment makes it impossible for him to comprehend anything, at any time. VERY BAD!!! (Who talks like that? a one year old??)
5
Pena Nieto wanted Trump to publicly declare--during his visit--that Mexico would not pay for the wall?
Pena Nieto was looking for a reason to blow off the visit.
5
I suspect that the leadup to the call focused on items of mutual interest and agreement. If the visit could be counted on to stick to items of mutual interest and agreement, my guess is that it could have been a productive visit.
But all it would take would be one reporter's question to Trump to get him to go off and continue to insist on Mexico paying, at which point Pena Nieto looks lectured to, disrespected, and weak. I don't blame Pena Nieto for trying to get an assurance that the issue would be dropped or at least it wouldn't be discussed. Realistically, however, Trump is so unpredictable that I don't know how one could take him at his word that he would or would not espouse a given policy at any given time.
5
Time to rethink our relationship with Mexico. What has it got us but millions of illegals on our side of the border including countless felons and tons of illegal drugs which ruin our kids and stoke crime and violence.
6
what it's gotten you is food for real cheap. you couldn't afford to eat if they were all deported. not to mention a whole host of other cheap benefits.
and no, even if farm laborers were paid $25/hr, not many would would sign up for such hard labor- although it might solve the obesity problem.
25
And millions of people who do all the work that us American citizens just won't do. Crops rotted in the Alabama fields when the Republicans ran Latinos out of the state.
And millions of citizens who pay billions into social security coffers but will never see a dime of it.
And, oh, many soldiers who've fought and died on foreign soil wearing a US uniform.
18
Buck, Mexico is not going away. Nor are Mexicans. Building a wall will not stop illegal immigration since at least 40% of people here illegally came in a car, plane or boat with a visa. They overstayed that visa. Why are you not talking about enforcing visa law? It would be a lot less expensive than a wall that will not completely solve the problem, if at all.
10
So if I decide that I don't like my next-door neighbors and want to build a big fence on my property to block them, it's okay if I also decide that my neighbors have to pay for my fence? My decision, my fence but they have to pay for it? What if it was the reverse and my neighbors tried to force me to pay for their fence? How would that work, exactly?
42
Lynch, you don't get it. The Mexicans who cross the border are perpetrating a crime just by crossing. There is no cooperation offered from Mexico to stop these crimes.
4
First, what color are your neighbors? That's how that works in good ole Christian USA. AND, please, please make sure that the people who build your wall are NOT unionized - jeez that's costly...
Yes I'm being sarcastic...
8
If my neighbors continually came into my yard without permission or invitation, I would not have a problem paying for my own fence. By the way, do you lock your front door or just leave it open to anyone who wished to enter?
In a few months, Mexican elections will hopefully see the end of the current presidents term as well as the most corrupt political party in Mexico. Though I applaud Mr. Nieto's stand on trump's asinine wall, it is one of the very few admirabble positions he has taken.
3
So Nieto didn't want to be charged for his neighbor's wall? I wouldn't want my neighbor to put up a fence and charge me for it, either.
Maybe Trump's loyal supporters can pass the hat for the money. They are the only ones who want it - other than the corporations who are drooling over the cost over-runs for the project. I certainly don't want it coming from my tax dollars. Besides, thanks to the GOP, they are already earmarked for endless wars.
22
But once we have that wall all the lily white conservative kids will have a way to go out and learn the value of a dollar...picking lettuce and tomatoes! No more travel baseball and luxury summer camps for Junior...yeah right.
6
To pay for the wall all Trump has to do is sell naming and advertising rights for it.
Guaranteed our immoral corporations would love to advertise on the wall.
2
Perhaps Trump demanded a down payment for his wall of shame........"Trump's Folly".
7
Maybe Mexico will do like Trump...agree, sign something, then default and declare bankruptcy...
6
Fortunately, there are no consequences for screaming at a foreign head of state when he won't cave for you, and blowing up months of negotiations behind the scenes.
9
Once a once again Donald throws his toys out of the pram. Really America, was this the best you could do?
26
Because he has gone about in the wrong way. Got no clue about governing and is basically an incompetent that can not read. Plus he is so into himself that there is no room for compassion, empathy or just basic common sense.
9
Mexico has become a major thorn in the side of this president who has only himself to blame for this impasse. Why does the president insist on rubbing Enrique Pena Nieto's nose in a mess not of his own making? This lack of diplomacy is par for the course for this administration and this president continues to alienate world leaders at a breakneck pace. "America First" is becoming America Alone.
24
Trump might have relented if the Mexican president offered some real assistance in stemming the flow of illegal immigrants instead of paying for a wall, but he apparently has no interest in putting a stop to this illegal activity.
3
The people who benefit from them in this country (the ones getting more and more tax breaks) doesn't want it stemmed. No job, no reason to come. Loss of business and prison, no reason to hire.
3
It's not {not, I say} illegal in Mexico
2
Anyone checked the status of the groundskeepers and custodial staff at Mar a Lago lately?
11
The idea that Mexico pay for a wall whose purpose is essentially to pen in their citizens is of course patently ridiculous. However, were they to pay for it, perhaps they should be the ones to design, build and operate it? Were that the case, the US should have no input into how big it is or what it costs, or how long it takes to build, e.g. Start date post Trump. It would be great to get this whole thing removed from our collective conscience and move on to more important things.
2
Good for Mr. Nieto. You can't reason with a Bully.
140
No need to...haven't you heard? Melania will not allow bullying!!
7
"A White House official said Mr. Trump had simply become frustrated at Mr. Peña Nieto’s insistence on staying on the subject of the wall."
Right. I'm sure all President Pena wanted to talk about was a wall he wasn't going to pay for.
24
Trump's arrogant belief that he can force someone else pay for his wall is no different than Republicans and the 1%'s arrogant belief that others should forced to pay their taxes. It is emblematic of these moochers and a shared needy entitlement they feel they have along with a divine right secured by a minority of gerrymandered votes.
Perhaps they are looking for a new Constitutional Amendment giving them the right to take from the less fortunate others and sticking them with the bill too.
It's not as if trump and the GOP aren't already eyeing Xi and Putin's rewrite of their own constitutions to allow indefinite one party one man rule for our nation too.
As a tax payer, let trump pay for his own stinkin' wall with the tax cut windfall he gave himself and stuck the rest of us with the bill for generations to come. The sooner trump can't live with that, the sooner I can.
President Nieto, perhaps you can propose to build a wall on your side of the border and tell Americans to pay for it. See how Americans like that idea.
80
In fairness to the belief among the top 1% that others should pay they taxes, the recent Republican tax law does appear to be working out pretty well for them so far.
Mr. Trump still cannot see the absurdity of his careless campaign promise to force Mexicans to pay billions for a wall they don't want. President Nieto has shown himself to be rational and as cooperative as he can be in the face of such absurdity. Let it go, Mr. Trump. Stubbornness does not demonstrate strength, but weakness.
138
You realize you are being "unpatriotic" by supporting Nieto over Trump...now if it was Putin, you'd be in the clear.
4
Once again we start a new week with the president causing chaos, in this case, fighting with Mexico's Pena Nieto. There is something profoundly wrong with a man who is incapable of initiating a social interaction that is not a brawl. Red flag this dangerous man. This problem results when an introspedtive narcissist has too much "executive time."
61
It's called tail wagging dog. Don't you remember how important it was for us to tune out the rest of the world events and concentrate on Monica's blue dress. You know, the really important stuff. Wall "trumps" Collusion...
3
In what alternative universe would one sovereign state pay for a wall on the territory of another sovereign state with the stated purpose of keep citizens of the former out?
I'm fairly certain the Chinese didn't ask the Mongols to pay for the Great Wall (a conversation I'd love to see, even in fictional form) or that Hadrian didn't ask the Picts to pay for his wall.
As to all this palaver about campaign promises, I can easily see the Mexican President telling Trump, "Not my problem."
198
Palestinians also did not pay for the wall(s) built in their land.
3
The Mongols and Picts were never asked to pay for the wall, never pay for it. And the Great Wall of China and the Hadrian Wall did not stop the Mongols to invade China and the Picts to invade the Roman province of Britannia. And even worse, in the case of China, the Mongols conquered the entire country.
1
A nation like Mexico that has millions of its citizens residing illegally in neighboring state might consider paying for a wall to prevent its citizens from illegally entering the neighboring state if it was benefitting from a $71 billion a year trade imbalance that could be sharply reduced. The neighboring state could also tax the $26 billion a year in remittances that Mexican living within it borders send home to Mexico each year.
1
Mexico has let itself be humiliated time and again. Instead of scraping and bowing, Nieto can help both the US and Mexico by giving Trump a public cold shoulder while launching a public campaign highlighting the White House's absurdly poor foreign policy.
41
Funny.
Trump announces to his followers that he's going to build a wall along our Mexican/US border and that Mexico was going to pay for it.
Did he ask Mexico first, or did he think that the so thought of 'inferior' country was going to bow to his 'suggestion' just because he was Trump?
If I were Pena, I wouldn't have made plans for a trip to the White House in the first place.
I would have sat back like Cuba did and did business with other countries all over the world.
Right now, which country is getting all of the business from other countries and companies, especially the US countries who moved to Mexico.
And Mexico is transporting Mexican grown crops to other countries, especially the US.
Let Trump continue boost to his crowd about what he is doing or going to do.
After all, he is known for selling garage.
If they buy into that nonsense, then one can see why Russia found it so easy to spread fake propaganda on Facebook and other social media.
They obviously know Americans better than we know Americans and used this weakness against them,
But not all of us fell for the B/S.
Many of us know a con when we hear it.
In Trump's case, when we also see it.
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Lenin said, "A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with."
Yes, they've got our number.
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Amateur hour at the White House. I admire Nieto’s ability to hammer home the border wall issue until Trump was exasperated. Why would Mexico pay for something it doesn’t want? The secret to a good relationship is knowing when to shut up and listen. Trump doesn’t have a clue.
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Perhaps it's the other way around: tell Nieto (correctly) to pound sand and fix his own country. That is true and valuable diplomacy. Nieto is a fool to think he can demand that Trump concede publicly on the point of who's paying for a wall. The US has been too lenient on Mexico for a very many years, and because of that we get a flood of miscreants. One way or another, Mexico should pay.
Mexico doesn't want the wall of course not, why would they, when we are the suckers who take millions of uneducated poor folks off there hands.
Who are you calling an amateur in the White House?
Mexican diplomacy is part of the powerful portfolio of Jared Kushner. If Trump is clueless about Mexico and the wall it must be Jared's fault.
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Jared Kushner is speaking in the second slot? Where is the Secretary of State?
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Oh, I thought Jared was the Secretary of State, and Commerce, too. It's so much easier when you just lump them together.
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Who? What is this Secretary of State you ask about?
Did Trump insist that Mexico pay for the phone-call and lose his temper when they did not?
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No, Trump called collect.
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White House pay phone doesn't take Rubles...
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At last, a President that doesn't back down! President Trump is working hard to keep all his campaign promises. With the Mexican President up for re-election in a few months, he has to appear tough as well. Both countries should support The Wall. Why would Mexico want their citizens coming to the US? My grandparents came here LEGALLY. If you are here illegally, you are breaking the law and a criminal. PERIOD. Do it right or face the consequences of your actions. Condoning any type of illegal behavior, regardless of nationality, is dangerous for our country and citizens. Why can't folks see that?
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With all due respect, your comment shows how uninformed you are with respect to Mexico. There is NO re-election for Presidents in Mexico, they serve one 6 year term only.
It is NOT for Mexico to support the Wall. Both the US and Mexico are sovereign states. The US has as much right to build that wall without Mexico interference, as Mexico has every right to tell the US, Good Luck with your wall, we are not paying YOUR bill.
And please stop calling immigrants criminals or other defaming adjetives. As an immigrant - with dual citizenship - I am pretty sure I know a far less number of criminals, if any, than Mr Trump does at this time.
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There are lots of ways to promote legal immigration and reduce illegal immigration. I respect your point, but that's not the point in this story. The point in this story is the arrogance of this particular method and insisting that Mexico pay for it. It would be great if the US Government would say to Mexico: "Both the US and Mexico know that illegal immigration across the border is caused by a whole host of problems in Mexico (and further south). Suppose we work TOGETHER to address those problems once and for all." Instead of making it a self-righteous vote-pandering defeatest fight, this could be a great, visionary solution that becomes a model for the entire world and creates many good jobs on both sides of the border. Your grandparents, who came here legally, would be proud.
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Folks do see that. What they don't see (because it isn't there) is that the best solution is a new tall wall that Mexico pays for. Nobody taking this seriously in a workable position of authority is saying that illegal immigration should be left alone. There is a constellation of solutions that can best bring this about. First, spend the border barrier money they already authorized before you spend more. Second, listen to the people who work this problem every day - they do not want the Trump-imagined "wall". Third, be realistic about what you expect the American people to support. Trump promised the moon when he didn't think he'd ever have to make good on it, he based public policy on mob mentality, and he is now coming to the stark realization that none of this is possible except in his mind. His supporters only extrapolate his public successes and ignore the crushing influence of his failings.
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Everyday that Trump is in the White House he diminishes respect and regard for the U.S. around the world. World leaders needs to stand up to this buffoonish president and his stupid notions like the border wall. Everyday it is something else with this president. If he doesn't get impeached then we cannot return him to office, he will be the ruin of our country and it will take us years to repair the damage he has done.
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Before he leaves or is unceremoniously removed from office Donald J. Trump will have destroyed American international relations around the world and so besmirched the office of POTUS that we will need all the power of all the pest exterminators in the country to sanitize the Oval Office and make America wholesome and great again.
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Maybe he's just reinforcing the old adage that Anyone can grow up to be President. At this rate the next person could never even show up and do less damage.
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I noticed that this is the first day in practically 2 years that the NYT hasn't bashed The President multiple times on their homepage.
There might have been a handful with fewer instances of that - but this has a different.....feeling.
Things that make you go hmmmmm...
Our porous southern border has been an ongoing problem for years. And the result of similar border policies in European countries like Germany has created a backlash which we can only hope to avoid here. My experience living in L.A. from 1988 to 2001 is that while most Latinos assimilated into the mainstream by the second generation, some parts of California were becoming small Latino colonies. In other words, if an immigrating group of people reaches a threshold of numbers it is no longer immigration but a migratory transfer of populations which is a form of neo- colonization changing the host culture irrevocably. These are inconvenient truths but you would have to witness it to understand how substantial the problem is. In the end, culture is a fabric of one language, set of values, and yes, borders. Personally, as someone who respects Latino values of a strong work ethic, family solidarity etc. the problem is one of numbers. What has become known as Balkanization in that part of Europe has only created conflicts that continue to this day. Assimilation became impossible. In the early twentieth century with the great waves of immigration to this country there were never the numbers that we're seeing today and those groups all assimilated in one generation. What's happening today is a replay of what happened to the Roman empire when entire tribes migrated into the empire seeking refuge from other groups who had been threatening them in their own homelands.
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Culture is NOT a fabric of one language, set of values, etc. Cultures evolve.
Members of the United Kingdom no longer speak Old German, Americans cannot be mistaken for the British, America is no longer limited to the borders around the 13 original colonies, slavery no longer exists or is even defended. What could you possibly be thinking about other than your own (and admittedly others') fantasy of a past America that never really existed. There are many reasons for "Balkanization" but a variety of ethnic groups probably has less to do with it than economic inequality and the resentments enflamed to disguise it.
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This is a very accurate and cogent assessment of the real problem facing America and the obstacles some nationalities are creating to true assimilation. Also, the comment underscores the value of returning to "English Only" in all official public and commercial documents and oral interactions. Some Hispanics and other ethnic groups are clearly eager to "colonize" America and that should not be allowed.
I guess you are unfamiliar with the various Chinatowns, Little Italys, and Jewish, Polish, Irish, and other enclaves around the country. Funny, you appear to live in NYC. How did you escape noticing them? T
hose communities support new immigrants, true. They also are magnets for tourists who want a variety of experience and interesting restaurants the immigrant communities provide. They add color and insight into other cultures. Many an American from the fly-over country would never be exposed to the cultures they showcase otherwise. They are to be celebrated, not condemned.
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“Something there is that doesn’t love a wall....
....Good fences make good neighbors.”
Robert Frost, ‘Mending Wall’
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Mr. Griffith, if you're suggesting that Robert Frost would support Trump's "Wall" then you're besmirching the name and honor of a decent man who would be revolted by the "Orange One" and all of his lunacies. Please reread the poem and retract or correct your comment.
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Mr. Trump has all the diplomatic acumen of Rufus T. Firefly.
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How about Attila the Hun with a little of Ivan the Terrible mixed in for good measure? Or Mad King Carlos of Spain?
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That is a real insult to Rufus T. Firefly!
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Why should he make a state visit to a regime that has maligned, slandered and libeled his country?
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Kudos to President Pena Nieto. Mr. Trump is nothing more than a belligerent bully who deserves to be isolated from those nations like Mexico who have been our allies over a long period. Walls are counterproductive (recall Berlin) and this particular wall is emblematic of the utter stupidity of such Trump policies.
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Why is expecting people to enter our country LEGALLY such a controversy? Both countries should support The wall!
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Yeah, the President of Mexico is enlightened.
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I live in San Diego, very near the border. Nobody, nobody here wants a stupid wall. It would interfere with our economy, tourism and relations on general. They have three different prototypes and they have to basically hide them from the American public because they are so wildly unpopular. You can't even get a glimpse of them, only from the Mexican side of the border. Our mayor is a Republican and doesn't want it. Ask many of the people/politicians who actually live in border towns and they don't want the stupid wall either. You're saying it's all about illegal immigrants when it's really a racist vanity project for the least diplomatic, least prepared, least knowledgeable and generally acknowledged worst "President" to ever inhabit the WH.
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Donald Trump is a national disgrace. Why would Mexico even consider paying for a border wall? Is Donald so ignorant to think he could bully our neighbor and important trading partner into such an agreement? Mexico has been an important ally of America, but the 8th grade mentality of Donald Trump is putting a test to that relationship. Deplorable.
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Well, Nafta was supposed to stop illegal immigration because many jobs would be sent south. That is, people in Mexico would be able to work there. Well, half of that equation worked.
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I agree with this comment wholeheartedly, with one exception: having taught middle school instrumental music students for 37 years, I find this an insult to 8th graders. Most show far more common sense than the current occupant of the White House.
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8th grade is too kind
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Still waiting to see the payment plan. How's that goin' GOP?
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Trump continues to be at odds with everyone in the world except Putin.
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Don't forget Xi......especially now that he has wrangled out of term limits.
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Dorian:
He ran on having that kleptocratic government that puts down the movements of indigenous people and kills journalists (aka Mexico) pay for the wall. He is not at odds with the voters. He is on his way to keeping a campaign promise..! How can you not respect that..?!
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Putin is the guy who pulls Donald's strings and makes his jaw flap in the wind. Can't be at odds with his puppet master.
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