I also have trouble with words. The writer's words. And I have trouble with thoughts. The New York Times editors' thoughts. I can only wonder what happened in the newsroom as this opinion piece disguised as reporting moved forward to print and to the internet. This story is full of "some viewers and critics," "they feel," and "these critics say" and "many people said they were appalled." But the sourced quotes are from similarly leaning sources and the accusations are flimsy and vague, such as "it seems like he is aligning himself with the more powerful people in these situations..."
Why should we believe that Baldwin is guilty -- as he is in the minds of the writer, apparently -- for not immediately abandoning an accused friend on the basis of people (people Baldwin didn't know) who spoke out? The writer sets off in a single paragraph -- as what, proof of guilt? -- the following perfectly reasonable quote by Baldwin, who was defending a colleague he knew and worked with: "I just hope people proceed with this very carefully.'"
Another Baldwin comment, which the writer pulled from Twitter, also makes sense to me -- "But I need more than that before I destroy some1, regardless of their fame. I need a lot more."
And if there is one quote in this article that should be turned back upon the writer and editor involved, I would suggest it is this one -- "(XX) is socially aware, but only to a limit. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know, and that’s a big problem.”
31
God forbid someone should disbelieve a Dylan Farrow, though millions of us do. And what a travesty that someone should defend Woody Allen from the opportunistic assaults of the Dylan band wagoners, who themselves are slavishly certain about something widely discredited. I say bravo to Alec Baldwin and shame on the Times for it’s bizarre current obsession with a story long past its sell by date.
37
Puh-lease this is not at all unusual in Hollywood. They've been making movies about sex and violence for decades while espousing other virtues whenever it fits their purpose.
3
I am not 100% sure Woody Allen is guilty either. Has it gotten to that ? One cannot even have an opinion ?
35
Getting a bit tired of NY Times' non-objective role in the Metoo movement, taking down many people who generally support feminism and womens' rights instead of focusing on the people that truly are detrimental to them, e.g. Trump and the GOP.
Regarding Allen specifically - people are making ridiculous claims such as he's a pedophile etc. He's an older man married to a younger adult woman - apparently some people find that offensive. His marriage has lasted well beyond what most people's marriages last - so perhaps everyone else is wrong and Allen has found true love. People find that hard to fathom, so just like anything they don't understand they have to attack him.
NYTimes - go back to reporting news, not promoting opinions please.
49
The Toback comments are clearly the most oblivious. The man has been accused by a number of high profile women who stand nothing to gain from their situation. The Allen situation is different, despite the way even the NY Times is choosing to report on the allegations of molestation since the Me Too movement began. It has been trial by omission on the part of the media re: Allen. Ignore what does not conform to the narrative. And at some point we are going to have to ask ourselves who really is powerful anymore, when all it takes is an allegation for a man to be forced to withdraw from public life, lose his career, etc. Who has escaped this mob yet?
It is interesting that the Times calls back to Baldwin’s past misdeeds that have little to do with this situation. Implying that it does?
We all know Baldwin is a jerk. It is disappointing that the Times is implying that being a jerk is the same as being incorrect. That seems to be a societal trend and it is hugely problematic. Truth is not a mob with pitchforks.
13
The preponderance of comments condemn this article’s unjust, self-righteous, grotesquely irrational attacks on Baldwin and Allen. Resistance to the vindictive witch-hunting, that destroys not just innocent scapegoats but also the integrity and effectiveness of #MeToo against real predators, seems to be finally finding its voice.
[18.0202:2347]
24
Would Moses Dylan be believed if he criticized Mia Farrow on titter every time she did something or if he did a tearful interview with a major network? Answer me that? Are you saying that the "metoo" movement is about assigning guilt solely based on gender (a female victim must be believed and a male victim not)? I don't support everything Baldwin is saying but his support have Allen doesn't have ANYTHING, not one thing, to do with metoo.
19
This is the second piece in a matter of days in which a Times entertainment reviewer without demonstrating special knowledge of the case has launched an ad hominem assault on either Woody Allen or in this case his friend Alec Baldwin, who has merely reasonably said he will not condemn Woody if there is no new evidence. So does the Times know something we don't? Some new data to which these gentleman are privy? If not why are they allowed to publish reports assuming he is guilty? This is the very definition of prejudice, which the news editors on the paper would not normally allow. Are the standards of the Entertainment section different?
34
How can anyone other than Dylan Farrow and Woody Allen know the real truth? It's ludicrous listening to pundits and commentators debating something they have no evidence about.
This is a private family matter that should have been handled between those family members and the police. The way it ended up in the media is foul and very low class. Sorry, Mia. But you guys botched this badly.
44
Ms Klausner added, “There is loyalty to friends, and then there is unsolicited outspoken denial of an abuse survivor’s truth. It seems very strange to me that somebody who wasn’t there is so compelled to pipe up.”
So said Ms. Klausner, somebody who wasn't there, piping up.
45
“I would really like to change.”
-And what is stopping Mr Baldwin from changing??
6
"... he has bluntly minimized...women who say they have been victims, including Mr. Allen’s daughter, Dylan Farrow, and Rose McGowan...some viewers and critics are finding Mr. Baldwin’s behavior to be offensive."
1. Saying you are victim--accusation--is one thing; victim is another.
The former does not prove the latter. Otherwise it's judicial farce. The burden of proof is on the prosecution (and accuser) for good reason.
We KNOW some women accuse falsely--for various reasons. Some even suffer from "false memory syndrome"--sincerely believing they were assaulted or harassed.
2. Being offended--i.e. taking offense-- does not prove an offense.
The feeling does not prove the action. Phobias, delusions hallucinations "thin skins" abound.
3. Evidently accusations against Mr Allen have been appropriately investigated and dismissed.
4. Trial in court and investigation by police, outweighs trial by media--logically if not sensationally.
5. Allen warned of witch hunts; they assume guilty witches; witch hunters never rest until they find them.
McCarthyism was a political witch hunt.
We could use a good name for male assaulter witch hunting. It assumes women are treasure, men are pirates.
How about "pirate hunting"? There must be treasure stealing pirates--hunt them down; burn them at the stake.
5. Just as those standing up to McCarthy were courageous heroes, so are Baldwin and SNL. Let logic prevail.
35
What a despicable article, Baldwin didn't say that sexual harassment wasn't a serious problem, he said that he questions some of the allegations against specific parties who were accused. This is an important part of the discussion. Baldwin has his own point of view regarding this, and states his rationale. You can agree or disagree or come some where in between but you shouldn't attack the man for simply stating his opinion. This chills a legitimate foundation for this most important topic. I can only say that Woody Allen's accusations were made in the heat of an acrimonious divorce and should be looked at critically before simply being accepted at face value. I don't mean they should be dismissed , just tested with logical thinking. In the 1980's there was a child abuse day care scare that infected the country. We were told we must "believe the children" , many people went to prison for long period of time before reflection and calmness took hold. More than a few had been wrongfully convicted. This is not to say that institutional abuse didn't happen, but an uncritical acceptance of dogmatic opinions creates injustice.
38
"To their growing discomfort, some viewers and critics are finding Mr. Baldwin’s behavior to be offensive. "
Glad to see Baldwin standing for the truth no matter how it offends the witch hunters.
33
Alec Baldwin has never calculated the consequences from the outraged petty moralism his opinions might upset before he opened his august mouth, so what do you expect? His is precisely the voice that we need at the present moment.
17
AB is talented but it has always been clear he's a bit of a neanderthal. A bit like Trump in his strutting and obvious self regard.
All of his "troubles" stem from poor impulse control. Inability to keep his mouth shut in the moment under the misapprehension everyone's interested in his opinion. Later criticized for stupid, ill-considered remarks but doesn't seem to pay any kind of price in terms of career. May wish to resurrect his own desires on the Presidency in the Age of Trump.
2
Would Moses Dylan be believed if he criticized Mia Farrow on titter every time she did something or if he did a tearful interview with a major network? Answer me that? Are you saying that the "metoo" movement is about assigning guilt solely based on gender (a female victim must be believed and a male victim not)? I don't support everything Baldwin is saying but his support for Allen doesn't have ANYTHING, not one thing, to do with metoo.
17
I cannot attest to Woody Allen perversity but I have direct knowledge of Hoffman & Toback transgressions. The test of 'criminality' is utterly bankrupt.
That Toback & Hoffman may have rationalized lurid behavior, believed boys will be boys and insisted that 'hurt feelings' are trivial--and especially- that the past was a different time, standards for behavior toward women were loosey goosey.
Then they should apologize, express a new POV.
Toback was creepy, talking dirty to young girls he picked up randomly on the Upper West Side. Exhibitionism is a crime, but psychological intrusion & verbal molestation is not.
It is still worthy of public disgust.
5
The comments here are very revealing. Baldwin is a hypocrite playing Trump the hypocrite and both have thousands of fans who really don't like it when their hypocrisy is pointed out.
8
It's about time someone points the finger at SNL. They are guilty of misogyny, plain and simple. Been watching since 1980. I find most of the skits impossible to watch. My husband and I usual stop watching after tree first musical appearance.
4
Not crazy about Baldwin but its good to see someone with enough courage to support friends who he believes in rather than jump to politically expedient conclusions. No one knows what went on between Woody A and Dylan Farrow. No one ever will know. We can only form opinions based on intuition.
The greatest failing of #METOO is disagreement and in fighting between the me's. #memememememe!? Unfortunately this is beginning to sabotage the power and credibility of an important movement.
26
Enough of the Woody Allen hating ! Read Robert B.Weide's article, " Woody Allen Allegations- Not So Fast", in The Daily Beast.
30
"It seems very strange to me that somebody who wasn’t there is so compelled to pipe up.” Ha Ha Ha Ha. Oh the irony!!!!!!!
17
The irony of this topic is inescapable and laughable. We're talking about show biz folks. They're a special community. Their job is to transport us, from the real world to the virtual, the semi-real, the surreal. The reason we care about them, obsess in some cases, is because for some celebrities dominate our lives. They spark up our hum-drum lives, with performances on the stage, on camera, behind the camera, engaging in all manner of flights of fancy. And so we put these otherwise ordinary folks on a pedestal, for their artistry, not their personal integrity.
That is when the problem begins. When we make them idols, many expect them to lead lives of extraordinary greatness 24/7. Although that's an impossibility, by giving them such revered status, when our idols fail, we become crestfallen. That is a human trait. But one we much watch carefully.
It is happening currently in the political arena. People who remain loyal to Trump must need to delude themselves on a daily basis, to accept a degree of ambiguity which defies logic. Yet, they do. Trumpists twist and turn in the wind, attempting to adapt and accept their failed Fuhrer no matter how much he defies all logic and reason.
I do not know a major celebrity on a personal level. I judge them for the artistic ability. That's where I draw the line. They are strangers. I manage to keep their art and their lives separated. Otherwise I would be driven mad.
DD
Manhattan
12
i haven't read a description of the specific claims by dylan farrow, made back when she was seven, to those who interviewed her, and which allegedly changed during her multi-day interview. in other words, the press should not be repeating this story without, itself, reviewing the specifics of whether her claims were factually plausible.
the timing of the "event", to be clear, is extremely suspicious, but no one, including the press, seems to be concerned (as a jury theoretically would have been) in distinguishing fact from imagination. i've also heard too little from moses, who claims that mia farrow coached her children to hate woody allen. what does he remember?
does it matter anymore what the facts are?
unfortunately, claims like these have become interwoven with the hysterical, illogical political claims by republicans in congress and carnival barkers like sean hannity involving the so-called "nunes memo". we are left to believe that, for many people, truth doesn't matter anymore.
14
I don't have time to write as fulsome a comment as I would like, because in half an hour I will be attending the town square executions of people who aren't politically correct about condemning the right show biz folks. Meanwhile, I also better watch what I say or don't say.
20
“'Why somebody would confidently go on the offensive against someone brave enough to speak out about having been sexually abused is completely beyond me,' Julie Klausner, the creator and star of the Hulu comedy series “Difficult People,” said in an interview."
Uhh, because sometimes "people brave enough to speak out" aren't telling the truth? Or doesn't Ms. Klausner admit that such a possibility exists?
22
Of all the people to ape Trump, he seemed most valuable. Having arrived at a level of success that might free him from the passions of the crowd, he could prefer his own integrity, as he sees it, to the pleasures of his SNL or WNYC roles. I'm not sure he'll want the weaselly Bannon option. Being frank about his neurosis was foundational to Allen's humor; frankness not widely promoted in defending criminal charges. My Chinese friend says, 'Shoot them on the spot'. Perhaps that's too much to ask here. I don't know if a poll would reveal a consensus that Mr. Allen has suffered enough, or if that would be regarded as the point of the business.
1
The "big problem" is that "he doesn't know what he doesn't know"?
Well, I guess that's a failing of the human race for which we can all be crucified.
And yes, I am taking one statement out of context and providing no background. Interesting how that technique can cut both ways, isn't it?
5
Julie Klausner asks “Why somebody would confidently go on the offensive against someone brave enough to speak out about having been sexually abused is completely beyond me”. Could the answer possibly be because the charges are false and are being used by a spiteful person to ruin the reputation of an innocent man?
21
These matters need to be resolved in a court of law with due process, not the court of public opinion. We are in danger of repeating the errors of the McCarthy era.
Yes, all victims of abuse need to speak up. And, take it to court, like the gymnasts did.
And, now we have TimesUp to hrlp with financial and emotional support
I believe Mr. Allen was exonerated in court.
16
So let me get this straight, when we are arguing the issue of climate change we defer to the research community who report that there is overwhelming scientific evidence of global warming. And we criticize those who allow their feelings to guide their beliefs. But when we are arguing this issue of alleged sexual molestation we defer to our feelings rather than to the conclusions of a democratic legal justice system that fully investigated the allegations and has repeatedly cleared the accused of any wrongdoing. Hypocritical, me thinks.
23
Democracy in Life & Art:
1) Alec Baldwin has publicly demonstrated impulsive aggression in his personal behavior. Then, again, it's his particular form of impulsivity that differentiates his behavior from the malevolence of deliberated intent. And, while he may not be as articulate in the Me,Too matter as Matt Damon or Tim Robbins (Times / Dowd, 2/03/18), he makes a valid point. Accusation does not equal guilt. To swing the pendulum to the opposite end does not ensure truth. In fact, such rhetoric subtly engenders derogation & dissolution of fundamental bases of American democracy. What we strive toward is affirmation of civil rights—trial by jury … and not in the court of opinion. 2) Actors play roles. While their characterizations are certainly infused (if only, unconsciously) by their personal character, I can vote for the quality of their performances or in response to their personal behavior at the ticket-booth or with my remote. I should not be deprived of this choice by “thought-police.” On the other hand, Steven Colbert is no longer playing a role. His offerings are his own straightforwardly personal comments on cultural events. While he, too, is free to express his views, he might consider his unconscious contribution to a Trumpian way of thinking in his quick-to-judge "humor" about anyone who's been accused. The direct communication of the medium of stand-up comedy affords both message … and massage.
2
I still think a woman should be portraying Trump on SNL. It has been reported that the president was unnerved by Melissa McCarthy's devastating take-down of Sean Spicer. Imagine what a competent actress could do with the material. Baldwin has had his opportunities and the results have been sub-par at best. If it's SNL's intent to annoy Mr. Trump, they could do no better than to have a woman do it to the serial womanizer.
5
And here I thought SNL was a parody comedy show.
8
This culture marginalizes women. My mother was a strong woman, but there was no question that her voice was not as valued as my Dad's. Right there, as a boy, I learned my Mom was not an equal human being. That hurt me because I loved my Mom. Then I learned that any manifestation of human feeling was considered acting like a women. So half of myself had to be silenced. What happens to men who are half alive and who have lost their mother. Some rescue the buried half, become whole and finally see women as whole human beings. Others stay split off from themselves and see women victims as dangerous because they remind them of their lost selves.
10
Is Mr. Baldwin allowed to reach his own conclusions, in part, as to the truthfulness of a persons accusation and in whole as to the “guilt” of the accused, without condemnation? Apparently not. If he does not trust each and every accusers account he is wrong in the eyes of many and should not be employed by SNL. Why does an actor need to be on a moral high ground to play a part?
29
I'm with you, Charlie. I assume you are a guy; I'm a woman, and not a particularly young one. I don't trust a lot of the women myself, and before someone accuses me of not supporting women's dignity, rights, etc. or appreciate their struggles, let's just lay that to rest and think about what's going on in this male-bashing fight we're in. Women are just as capable of being out of line when it come to male-female relationship issues as men are. I hope we get something good out of #MeToo - and I truly believe we will, but right now, in my view, women themselves are threatening its credibility. I, myself, have been privy to errant situations where I would take the man's side too. Get a grip, girls. Strong women aren't whiners. They are thinkers, analyzers who can see more than one point of view.
13
Ugh this article distorts the facts so much it is beyond pathetic. Writer is just blatantly cherry picking statements by baldwin & making them appear in a different context than intended. E.g. rose magowan he only said that she took the hush money as he was explaining that he had repeated the newyork times question on if this was harmful to women he stated he did not think it was their fault as they could have been threatened or blackmailed into it. He was asking does the fact that this is an option available to abusers harm abused women. Toback he never supported it just hit him hard that his friend turned out to be that way hence why he needed time to get it straight in his own head. He never once supported Weinstein. Every1 needs to get over the voicemail it still gets rubbed in his face everyday after 11 years bad divorce and custody battle he was hurt handled his hurt badly and made a mistake his daughter adores him. By bullying women he clarified . by raising his voice in an argument as that can b seen as intimidating (hardly makes him a masoginist) he has been praised by female actresses such as Selma Hayek and kirsten stewart for willingly stepping aside in a scene to let them shine. Supporting them and treating female co stars as equals which many men in HW still can't do for some reason. & as for WA he has every right to think he is innocent at least he has the integrity to be honest and say it whether WA is guilty or not no one really knows there's no evidence
56
It is shocking what it is happening in the US regarding the Woody Allen case.
We live in a country where it is enough for someone to go on twitter claim s/he is a victim and accuses some of being a pedophile. disregarding any investigations on the subject. And he or she is automatically correct. No further...... investigations are needed.
All these brainless actors who joined the hate chorus against Allen .....do they have any access to the case?
They choose to believe a 7-year-old, Dylan Farrow - who was found to be probably couched by her mother to believe all these by a major hospital (specialized in child abuse during the 6-month investigation)
How responsible is that? Even if you want to give Dylan Farrow accusations a second thought the whole action is irresponsible and of tabloid quality,
That's why we, as an organized society, have investigations by experts to tell us after responsible examination what MIGHT have happened. Of course, they might be wrong.
But if THEY err despite access to all evidence unavailable to the public what is the actors chance to know the truth?
69
Th judge in the case determined that Dylan wasn't coached.
And you know the truth of how things happened, how?
1
From the plane incident and since then, it's indisputable that Alec Baldwin is an insensitive lout.
Since he's unlikely to change himself, he should be smart enough to be stay quiet on matters that people care about.
15
To be frank - this is a completely ridiculous article that any decent editor would have nixed. I dare you to print this.
52
this article is mostly for people who already agree with it
3
I agree what was the purpose of this article.
3
"Online and in interviews, many people said they were appalled by what they saw as Mr. Baldwin’s belligerence toward Ms. Farrow and his wading into circumstances about which he has no firsthand knowledge."
And yet if Mr. Baldwin were to come out swinging in support of Ms. Farrow, the same people would applaud him immediately and loudly proclaim how "woke" he is.
42
And the "many people" who are "appalled" also have zero firsthand knowledge.
5
Alec Baldwin is a good actor, but he's not on some god-like level where he can get away with this crap. Goodbye, I won't miss your casual misogyny -- and goodbye SNL until I hear they've ended ties. All the "sad HR lady" sketches will ring hollow until you clean house.
8
The whole point seems to be the no one is on some god-like level where he can get away with it. The whole warped attitude of their "Trump-like" superiority and dominance due to prestige, fame and power underlies the attitudes of many of these abusers, and of their defenders, as we have seen.
1
Well done, NYT. You've turned a left, liberal feminist off completely, to the point where. I'm about ready to cancel my subscription. Enough already. What happened to this paper?!? Who do you think you are? Why is moral authoritarianism your baseline temperature? How dare the NYT think it can continue to print these sniveling, spineless editorials that claim to be brave examinations of cultural norms, when it is exactly the opposite. This is a moral conformity that is wholly undemocratic, unthinking, au courant and terrifyingly puritanical. Individualism is dead in this culture that the NYT espouses--The same NYT that spread lies about WMDs in 2001 and led us into a nearly 2-decade-long war. Who are you to be the moral arbiters of anything?
127
Thank You, Pamela.
7
This column is disgraceful. We might as well be back in the days of the House Committee On UnAmerican Activities hunting for Communists all over America. I am inexorably opposed to this despicable guilt by association gambit that's being played and the author's horrendous use of it. What kind of journalism is this? Mr. Baldwin doesn't have to be comment on anything or anybody he doesn't want to comment on. I'd hate to be in the position of being pressured to comment on anything. And regarding Woody Allen, since when is it a crime, or even a bad thing, to support one's friends if you personally believe in that friend's lack of criminal behavior? Regarding, Allen, every smart-thinking person knows Mia Farrow is behind this vendetta against him. And it's been going on for 26 years. Enough.
98
Alec Baldwin doesn't believe Woody Allen is guilty of what he's been accused of. So Baldwin is supposed to "skewer" him?
For the record, I'm a woman and a feminist and I think Mia Farrow made up the whole "he abused Dylan" thing.
Someone should carefully research MIa's background and write a detailed book exposing her. For example, the way she got Frank Sinatra to marry her (start with Kitty Kelley's excellent, well-sourced biography of him). And the way she used an "accidental pregnancy" with twins to lure the married Andre Previn away from his family. (Make sure to check out what Previn's writer wife had to say about Mia at the time.) Then on to the clever ploy Mia used to attract Woody Allen. And accessorizing herself with a huge number of adopted children to create a saintly image. (Don't forget to explore how those adopted children said Mia treated them, and how they ended up.) And then, of course, the "accidental" pregnancy in her forties that was unsuccessful in getting Woody to marry her. And the brainwashing-of-Dylan allegations by her son Moses, now a family therapist. And MIa's current description of herself as a "humanitarian" in wikipedia.
Mia Farrow is a manipulative, narcissistic sociopath, the ultimate "woman scorned." She, not Woody, is Dylan's abuser.
And this woman is anything but a feminist. She spent most of her life using old-fashioned feminine wiles, including unilaterally planned pregnancies, to latch onto and use powerful men.
103
Well put Mr Drew, Well put. Unfortunately most people condemning Allen are lazy and will not do any research. It's simply easier to believe something horrific happened even when all evidence points to the contrary.
10
Where is Ronan and Mia's expose of Frank Sinatra? There have certainly been accusations made in the past, both of the sexual and general criminal nature. How about bringing down Phillip Roth? Reading Claire Bloom's book, she describes a misogynist monster. According to the "logic" behind this new wave of gossip in the guise of journalism, maybe we should have a giant bon fire and just burn all the albums and books of men who have been labeled "problematic." And where is Mia Farrow's guilt by association with these men? Or are we to understand that only men that she deems worthy of fond feelings to be safe? There is an inherent absurdity to this article and of the time in which it is perfectly plausible to be published.
8
For years I have wondered why the public continues to tolerate Mia Farrow's behavior. It wasn't too long ago that she was saying her son Ronan could be Frank Sinatra's son, that it was "possible." Then she was dating Philip Roth because a friend thought they'd be ideal for one another because they both hated Woody Allen. Then there was her short lived hunger strike for Darfur which ended as soon as the maximum publicity for herself had been obtained. And yes, she "hunted" both Previn and Sinatra in what would be considered stalker behavior today. She has unequivocally supported Roman Polanski for the very same behavior allegedly done by Allen. It just goes on and on with her and over what? That one man chose someone else over her? I think Dylan's present day life is incredibly pathetic. She has nothing going on in her life other than pressing forward with this long ago event. Has ANYONE gotten her any therapy? Tried to get her to do something positive and useful with her life? Discussed with her the ramifications of obsessive and compulsive behavior? If Mia Farrow did coach her in this 25 year vendetta, the amount of repressed anger in Dylan should be approaching critical mass.
11
Alec Baldwin has no problem making fun of those he is not personally connected to, but taking a stand against a person he knows and is possibly friends with, is a whole other matter. I am sure all of us would feel the same, and react the same, if it were a friend being accused.
Hollywood in general has always stood up and protected the powerful man accused of misdeeds. I am still blown away that Harrison Ford flew to France to present Roman Polanski with his Oscar, personally. A man who fled jail time for rape of a minor. I have greatly enjoyed Harrison Ford's movies (and I still do) - but I was extremely disappointed by his actions.
I think it's fantastic that women are finding the strength to come forward and share their stories with the world. They are brave souls and I applaud them.
But expecting Hollywood men to make each other accountable for misdeeds, is an unrealistic goal.
If those Hollywood men truly valued women and their worth in the world, it wouldn't have taken women crying fowl at the top of their lungs, to find justice.
As for Woody Allen, I have always believed Mia's child when she said Wood Allen molested her. I am happy that more people are coming forward and believing her as well. That reinforcement is long overdue.
3
The fact that you believe her does not in itself make what she says true. This is the problem with this whole thing. People take their opinion to be fact and then base their actions and judgments on that. Personally, I have no idea who is telling the truth here. But there was an investigation, which found no evidence that Allen had abused her, from what I have read.
29
Please read more carefully why the case was closed.
There's no new evidence or information regarding Woody Allen as far as I know. Now, as if overnight, he supposed to be shunned as a pariah. If he were my friend I would stand by him.
58
I am a passionate believer in the #MeToo moment. It's a thrilling time in history for women. Woody Allen has worked with hundreds of actresses, brought many to their Academy Award, and none have come forward with any #MeToo-related allegations towards him. The situation with Dylan Farrow should not be seen as part of this moment in history. This is not a moment where we are outing pedophiles.
But regarding Dylan Farrow... It's been investigated. Woody Allen was found not-guilty. There have been no other accusations towards Allen with any other children (and pedophilia is a sickness, not a one-time deal). Allen's son Moses has come forward on Allen's behalf, against his mother and Dylan. I have always felt this was Mia's revenge. Dylan was either convinced of it, or is part of it. Her persistence and vivid descriptions should not imply Allen's guilt.
65
A certain subset of men, I hope an extreme minority, have some very nasty habits. And a certain subset of women do too. That serial male offenders are being publicly called out, humiliated and fired, may ultimately have a positive outcome and lead to a higher order of interpersonal behavior that will offset all the sludge that's being dredged up from the bottom the ulterior motive pond.
Two X chromosomes will not automatically make one an honest and fair human being and it is encouraging to see so many comments here based on the common sense that takes that factor into account.
However, as long as our serial offender-in-cheif remains in a position that allows him to rape us all, all of this outrage is moot. If you want to brandish a pitchfork, gather a small army of his accusers and get him fired. Leave Woody Allen and Alec Baldwin alone.
24
Alec Baldwin is right! Why should he take Dylan Farrows word against Woody Allen’s word that it did or did not happen?
36
What? If you have to "morally above" the people you're making fun of.....then no one in Hollywood will be able to make fun of anyone else. Ever.
The sexual harassment and abuse scandal in Hollywood is exponentially worse than what we've heard so far.
It goes back decades and includes actors, directors, and producers that most people love almost unconditionally and would NEVER believe could be involved in something so repugnant and morally vile. Just be logical; if you hear multiple stories where the basest part of human nature is in action, it's probably true. Especially in a business, as Martin Mull expertly put it, that's "like high school with money."
All we are hearing about is the tip of the tip of the iceberg. And we've heard almost nothing about the gay half of this equation, which is a bottomless pit of abuse.
Remember: a man only commits these acts when he knows he can get away with it.
And the more money you have, the more you can get away with. Assault, abuse, harassment. Even murder.
6
As a foreigner, I cannot stop thinking that America is really turning ugly. And that makes me really sad because the USA has a special position in the defense of democratic values.
Between Trump’s populism and the fanatical intolerance of part of the left, I wonder what will remain of the ideals of American democracy.
When social media meets identity politics meets puritanism, the cocktail is terrifying.
Now, a director who has been thoroughly inquired by the American system of justice (with a very hostile prosecutor) and against whom charges have been dropped is now considered guilty (Really? What are the new facts?), and those who exercise their right of free speech saying he is innocent must be shamed and shut down. Guilty by association with someone who has been prosecuted and proven innocent.
What I am wondering is: Have only social media and media -that seem to run after the first ones- become crazy or is it a global phenomenon and all Americans have become crazy too?
Who can explain me this degree of intolerance and hatred in the public debate? From the far right, I would not have been surprised, but from the left? Is it the result of 20 years of identity politics (i.e., the world is divided between oppressors and victims) in American universities?
I am really not optimistic about the future when reason and civility seem all but being lost.
51
Unfortunately, in addition to famously bullying - and loudly, defensively, offensively and suspiciously opining on events where (we hope) he was not a witness - Baldwin's performance as Trump is admittedly a blunt instrument, a painfully overrated insertion of a movie star to help sell a TV show.
As a lover of great satire and great SNL I'm especially ticked knowing talented Darrell Hammond, who does a detailed, wickedly brilliant Trump, has to sit off camera as SNL announcer while the producer's buddy butchers another piece every week with his ham-fisted caricature - and is praised by grieving viewers for his efforts
I pray after articles like this one Baldwin will not only wisely shut up, but also retire from that role so Hammond can help skewer the deserving president the way great artists (see The President Show) do.
5
“There is loyalty to friends, and then there is unsolicited outspoken denial of an abuse survivor’s truth." What does that mean in a country like the United States? Do we believe every person who claims they were abused, every 7 year old, every woman who thought some man made an inappropriate comment? When are we going to try to put some sense into this and not try to bring down some very talented and visible people. Do we remove every painting, every film, every teacher who "may" have acted inappropriately (according to some individual) I think that we need to look at this a lot differently and make sure that going forward, people who do wrong are called out on their bad behavior. And not 20 years later.
34
So speaks a man
Under any other circumstances, it would be unremarkable to conclude that the accused have at least some access to a community of friends and supporters.
17
What I truly know about the allegations against Woody Allen and others is simple - I don't know. All I have heard has been (mostly) from one side - the accuser (usually anonymous). If we are, as many are contending, to believe the accuser and the allegations - then, why not the accused and his denials. Surely the accused has a right to defend himself (his livelihood, etc.) against career-destroying allegations.
I just wish I could be so certain and so sure of the veracity of the allegations before being part of a movement destroying lives (and seemingly bent on vigilante 'justice').
40
I understand and believe that those who have been proven to have done inappropriate sexual behavior are awful people. But, I really resent how this entire movement has taken on a feminist-revenge feeling. People are admonishing Mr. Baldwin and others because they have not called out Woody Allen and other artists--BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN DUE PROCESS--these are allegations, and they might be true, but they might not be true. If you are accused of a sexual impropriety, you are done; just with the accusation. As a moderate who operates in the sensible center, who refuses to join the feminist-accusing left, and still believes in due process, I say: Just because a person is accused of abuse or a sexual impropriety does not mean it is true. The feminists are going too far. The ganging up on Trump during the fall of 2016, which I was one of, made me realize a lot of people believe he might be innocent of those charges. He may be (or not): the point. An accusation is not conviction. I dispise people who do these inappropriate thing and agree they should be held accountable, but I also believe they have a right to due process before we hang them. The feminists don't seem to realize this.
28
This all stems from assuming someone like Alec Baldwin has any thing of value to add to public discourse. I wish all these celebrities would stop using their fame to preach at us. Use it for charity, fine. But stop the politics. It’s only helping the Trumpistas.
5
This comment pertains to Dylan Farrow's allegations against Woody Allen. The timeline provided by the NYT a couple of days ago is very important in considering the credibility of her allegations. I do not doubt that Dylan believes her allegations, but suspect that she is more of a victim of false memories (encouraged and reinforced by Mia Farrow) than Woody Allen. The timeline notes that the 7 year-old Dylan's allegations were first reported by her adopted mother, Mia Farrow, after Mia had discovered Woody's relationship with Soon-Yi Previn and was understandably outraged. The timeline indicated these allegations were extensively investigated and litigated and ultimately not found to be credible, though Mia Farrow did not accept the findings of these investigations. Given that history, I'm not sure what more Woody Allen could have done or could do to refute the allegations. As far as I'm aware this is the only allegation against Woody Allen involving pedophilia. Given that the allegation arose in the midst of a tumultuous marital dissolution and was first reported by an aggrieved party, they must be view within that context. I have been disappointed by to see how quickly many of Woody Allen's colleagues have been willing to abandon him without critically considering the facts. While Alec Baldwin may not be Woody Allen's ideal defender, I appreciate his willingness to question the credibility of these particular allegations.
108
Shouldn't the pornographic pictures of Soon- Yi taken by Allen when she was a teenager be enough?
This article is the lowest of the low, basically a call in the New York Times to ask why we don't all get our torches and pitchforks our for Alec Baldwin.
Why?
Because he has had the audacity to point out that Mia Farrow's trail of destruction does not mean Woody Allen is guilty of anything. Poor Dylan Farrow was no more molested by Allen than I was (full confession, I have been in a room with Allen once...with about 250 others). The charge of child molestation was a common tactic in custody battles at the time. Why not report on that? Why say, "Mr. Allen has denied these claims and was not charged with any crime," when one could say, "After a seven-month inquiry by a team of child abuse investigators at Yale-New Haven hospital cleared Mr. Allen"?
Why not take aim at those who defend Mia Farrow? She told Woody Allen he was the father of Ronan Farrow, a bald-faced lie. She befriended Dory Previn in order to further her ambitions with Andre Previn, destroying Dory's life. Listen to Beware of Young Girls on YouTube. That's this woman. Read the testimony of Dr. Coates, the very psychologist that Mia Farrow first had examine Dylan. Farrow threatened Dr. Coats when the doctor wouldn't agree with her.
There were NO professionals who agreed with this charge when it was leveled. Zero. Nada.
This has to stop.
This is a vengeful, false, malicious smear.
82
Interesting how Woody Allen is now unapologetically grouped with men who have been accused by many women of harassment or assault. He was accused by ONE. And there was no evidence. His case doesn't fit the pattern of repeat offenses. I'm not a huge fan, but the piling on the bandwagon and trying him in the court of public opinion with no evidence and no understanding of the facts or circumstances is troubling.
84
So lack of a hundred percent support is "not supporting the movements values"? Where I heard that before?
17
Great quotes from Klausner!
3
There is nothing offensive about being accurate. Woody Allen IS offensive, and Rose McGowan DID take hush money from Weinstein. I think Baldwin is giving Time's Up exactly what it needs: a wake-up call and a much-needed course correction. In the last month the movement has directed almost all its fire at innocent people, like Robespierre in the French Revolution. It's going to backfire.
65
Who are these innocent people?
3
Meant to say Woody is INNOCENT. Not offensive.
11
Innocent people were too vulnerable. They died out long ago.
Alec Baldwin is giving Trump a lot of ammunition with which to attack SNL.
3
Baldwin's opinions about others who have been accused of harassment has no bearing on his portrayal of Trump. He's an actor who is playing a role.
19
Doesn't anyone remember the voicemail message Baldwin left his teenage daughter, calling her a disgusting pig? And then the horribly abusive way he treated Kim Basinger? Why liberals have continued to let this guy be a spokesperson for the left is beyond me. If Baldwin is a hypocrite for defending Allen, then he is only acting like a typical liberal. Baldwin's misogyny has been well documented throughout the years. Perhaps it's time for the liberals to pull their fingers out of their ears.
3
why conservatives have continued to let an abusive predator, bigot and serial philanderer be a spokesperson, and president, for the right is beyond me.
7
So says a newspaper that enthusiastically endorsed Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, despite the very serious and credible accounts of sexual misconduct and subsequent cover-ups and rug-sweeping by both of them.
12
Why has Alec Baldwin standing by the most corrupt groper & low life Woody Allen? Why is Woody Allen not in jail? Oh, he has money & can engage the top lawyer to keep him from getting arrested. But why the lawyers protect con guys like Woody Allen, beats me.
1
Woody Allen is not in jail because he never committed a crime.
22
Allen took a lie detector test and passed. Mia refused to take one. End of story about who the liar is. Why isn’t Mia Farrow in jail?
33
So Woody Allen is a criminal who should be in jail, despite his never having being charged with a crime and there being zero evidence of his having committed a crime? Yet Mia Farrow has defended and remained friends with Roman Polanski, who is guilty of drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl and is a fugitive, and Mia’s brother is serving a 10-year prison sentence for molesting boys. Sure. You make perfect sense.
6
The end of this article is perfect. By drawing the parallels in Baldwin's life to Trump, the only logical conclusion is Trump= Baldwin. Just like Woody Allen's movies and marriage to to Soon-Yi "proves" he's a child molester. Are there any sane voices left other than Cherry Jones?
24
"Alec Baldwin famously left his daughter Ireland a voicemail rant where he called her a 'rude, thoughtless, little pig' in 2007."
Nevermind his treatment of Woody Allen's daughter, he always was just playing a role with the Trump character. President Trump doesn't treat his own daughters like that... Just sayin'.
1
News Flash: Fathers call their daughters rude little pigs all the time when they are being rude little pigs. It is called parenting.
19
No charges were brought against Woody Allen. I find it unbelievable that a middle aged man that never had accusations of child molestation before would some day say to himself "I think I'll molest a little girl today."
23
Accusations against Woody were made during a contentious divorce. Prosecutors found insufficient evidence to charge him. He has plausibly denied all accusations. Maybe, just maybe, he is innocent despite an indignant media.
99
Dylan has already been caught lying on eight different parts of her story. So, he's innocent.
9
Not exactly. They decided not to drag the child through the trial, and though they couldn't "prove" it, the psychologist found his behavior with Dylan to be inappropriate as did some staff and other people.
As you can imagine "proving" such abuse, like rape, is extremely difficult unless there's violence or DNA to be collected, which in this case couldn't be done. False accusations of such behavior vs the total amount that actually occurs is infinitesimal and one of the reasons so much goes unreported is having to go through the sort of thing (if not so public) Dylan has been going through all these years. While there was little for her to gain from this, there was so much more to lose and suffer through, it's difficult to imagine she would have persisted had she made the whole thing up.
While watching her abuser benefit from the accolades and the free pass all this time must have been torture.
Maybe, just maybe, she is not making it up.
6
It is not a matter of thinking that Dylan made it up. She obviously believes what she says. The issue is whether, as a very young girl, she absorbed and then came to believe a story that originated with her mother, who was in the middle of a (highly understandable) emotional breakdown. The power of suggestion is a tricky thing, especially in children who are trying to survive an atmosphere of sexual hysteria.
9
Astonishing that people are only now noticing that Alec Baldwin is a coarse, egotistical blowhard who is nasty to women. My husband has refused to watch him in any movie for years, saying his behavior is always offensive. Imagine saying “But I need more than that before I destroy some1, regardless of their fame. I need a lot more.” He feels he has the power to destroy. This is exactly what is wrong with our entertainers. They think they have moral power and are in love with themselves.
Baldwin has not been funny in his send up of Trump because he is Trump.
9
The liberal, politically-correct, self-righteous "elite" are at it again. Now they want to re-try the Allen-accusation all over again in the media because it doesn't accord with their holier-than-thou attitude towards life. We were not there. There was a trial. It is done. Move on and get a life. Farrow has issues. Psychotherapy might help if she is interested.
40
For those of us humans who care for other humans, it's not that simple.
1
No.
The prosecutor felt they didn't have enough evidence and did not want to put the child through a harrowing trial. That did not mean Allen was innocent. And he was in fact denied custody - twice - because the judge wasn't comfortable with letting him be around the children. If only Dylan could have her life back! As it is she has to stand by and witness the man who abused her be revered by all, while many people, like you, reduce her to someone deluded.
2
I have never thought that Alec Baldwin had much talent (portraying boorishness is easy) and saw early on that he and Hilaria would do anything for attention (constant Facebook posts, etc). He inserts himself into conversations just for media time. Stop giving it to him. I won’t watch anything with him in it.
4
For many years the public has been asked to "wade into" the Woody Allen/Dylan Farrow accusations. Every time Mr. Allen releases a movie, or wins an award, the Farrows once again demand that he be destroyed in the court of public opinion. Nothing but personal and professional ruination will do, and the #metoo mob mentality may help them achieve their longtime goal. This accusation was never proven, there were never charges, and there has been an excellent case made that they simply are not true. What is obvious is that Mia Farrow, woman scorned, has spent 25 years seeking revenge. It seems that she may have ruined the mental health of her own children in the process. Many people want to destroy Woody Allen not because of Dylan Farrow's accusations, but because of the Soon Yi incident. We all know that a young child can come to believe things which are not true, if they are told over and over by an adult. I admire Alec Baldwin and Diane Keaton for standing by Woody Allen. I have a low opinion of the various celebrities who make no claim of bad behavior by Mr. Allen, but have given into a public campaign of vilification and claim to wish they had never worked with him.
129
It is a relief to read that all Americans have not lost their senses. Thank you.
The question is: why media seem to have just done that?
28
If journalists were doing their job instead of trying to get ad impressions this whole ‘accusation equals guilty’ thing would have been dead and dismantled a long time ago. As it is, journalists have just decided it’s easier and more profitable to join in the madness than to discredit and destroy it.
1
Enjoy Baldwin's Trump or don't because he doesn't pass your purity test. His comments were measured and careful unlike Sen. Gillibrand's about Al Franken, the former senator who caught Sessions in a lie that led to Robert Mueller.
No more rush to judgment and no more sacrificial lambs
58
I choose not to watch him portray the man in the WH not out of purity (?) but because it simply isn't funny.
5
The mob mentality of the armchair morality police is sickening. The accusations by Farrow are highly suspect.
The fact that Farrow becomes more adamant over time about the details of a supposed encounter that was to allegedly have occurred when she was a small child is clearly indicative of a planted memory that she is internally reinforcing.
Further, pedophilia is a serial behavior, not typically a one-time dalliance; In the present cultural environment, one would expect further accusations by additional victims. There have been none.
Finally, Woody Allen was investigated, and cleared, by law enforcement.
Mob persecution of an individual based on a single questionable accusation is the definition of a witch trial.
77
He was absolutely not "cleared" The prosecutor believed him in fact to be guilty but with insufficient evidence did not want to drag Dylan through a painful trial.
Mob mentality indeed! Check your facts first.
1
Murder victims can not take the stand either. But there is a 70% conviction rate for murder nonetheless according to the Bureau of Judicial Statistics. But trying a case with “insufficient evidence” is called prosecutorial misconduct. See if you can wrap your brain around the the fallacious contention of your comment.
It is mystifying how such smart people cannot parse a situation when it becomes personal to them.
“Why somebody would confidently go on the offensive against someone brave enough to speak out about having been sexually abused is completely beyond me.”
ALLEGEDLY been sexually abused.
“There is loyalty to friends, and then there is unsolicited outspoken denial of an abuse survivor’s truth.
ALLEGED abuse survivor's truth.
19
Alec Baldwin may perform a very funny Trump routine, but that is overshadowed by his defense of sexual abuser Woody Allen. I feel that SNL should not continue to use Mr. Baldwin in any of its programs.
2
Somebody who was there, Moses Farrow, has harrowing accounts of abuse, mind control, indoctrination coached speech on the part of Ms. Farrow.
40
The real name of the MeToo movement is the War Against Men. Any man is subject to attack by women, and will be automatically convicted by innuendo.
18
When you've been harassed in the work place like I have or experienced UNWANTED advances like I have then you can preach. Until then zip it.
1
Knowing SNL and the way they stayed quiet for a time after the Weinstein story hit they'll stay mum on this. And no one will care or say anything. And no one will notice the hypocrisy either.
3
Ms. Klausner added, “There is loyalty to friends, and then there is unsolicited outspoken denial of an abuse survivor’s truth. It seems very strange to me that somebody who wasn’t there is so compelled to pipe up.”
That cuts right to the heart of the matter. Alec Baldwin finds Dylan Farrow's tears/exhortations to be manipulative/fake - how would he expect an actual molestation victim to behave? She's not going to plead for her pain to be understood? What's in it for Alec Baldwin to embroil himself in it, unasked?
4
It seems many people are ignoring this part: "It seems very strange to me that somebody who wasn't there is so compelled to pipe up."
Including you, Sara.
Moses Farrow WAS there. He says it never happened; that the attic where it supposedly occurred was unfinished, not a play space for children, and without the train Dylan Farrow says she remembers so clearly; and that Mia Farrow was abusive and coached Dylan to believe she'd been abused.
11
Bringing up the voicemail of Baldwin yelling at his daughter is pretty low and reflects poorly on the author. And Dylan Farrow presents as a permanent victim. Her unsubstantiated molestation is the centerpiece of her life. There's a viciousness to Mia Farrow's decades long vendetta against Allen;
iunderpinned by a seemingly insatiable appetite for publicity.
Comparing Dylan Farrow's situation to those of Weinstein and Spacey's victims is just plain wrong.
43
"Dylan Farrow presents as a permanent victim. Her unsubstantiated molestation is the centerpiece of her life." Have you ever talked to victims of sexual abuse as children? Do you recommend a time limit on how long they should suffer the pain and psychological repercussions of having someone you trust molest you?
1
I am distressed by this article. Ms. Shepherd and Ms. Klausner are entitled to their opinions, to be sure. But Mr. Baldwin is also entitled to his!! If someone is accused, the procedure should be to explore/investigate. Listen to both sides (what a concept!). Innocent until proven guilty - ring a bell??? This trial by media is taking us down wrong path.
37
This is reaching. The writer and by extension, feminist politicians, are "demanding" a kind of religious mindset among those it will give it's seal of political approval to. This is reminiscent of Stalinism and the groupthink of communism or National Socialism. It holds that a person is not fit to work, (or exist), if their personal political behavior and statements do not exactly match those of a particular group. I believe that the real culprit in this today, is the system of popular propaganda reflected by Twitter with it's "followers and leaders, which turns a few individual's personal gripes or ideas into broadly followed or acknowleged political dogma.(Flash! It now turns out the Tweeters are not above faking their own popularity with computer cheats!)
This is like the news services of the various shifting alliances in Huxley's "1984" in which yesterdays policies and alliances disappear into the burn bin when they are no longer considered politically useful.
A great story about such political systems ,written many years ago by
H.G. Wells: "In the Country of the Blind".
Sadly, few Americans have read it , and now, fewer read at all. It can be obtained free on the intenet as it's copyright is long expired, so it's now in the public domain. Go ahead, read it!
I hereby give you my official permission.
14
Alec Baldwin is definitely guilty of one thing: Maligning the English language on social media. If you go the trouble to use a word like “exhortations", then for ____'s sake spell out the words "are", "you", "to", and "into".
This is how the world ends. Not with a bang, but a tweet.
7
Everyone quoted in this article complaining about Baldwin is a media figure with a hardcore feminist agenda. Where are the voices of people who think Baldwin is correct for not bending over backwards to support the increasingly Stalinistic ‘metoo’ movement?
I support ‘metoo’ and ‘timesup’ - I don’t support the frenzied group-think that has supplanted reasonable discourse.
For example: I think Baldwin’s support for Toback is appalling. But I agree with his support for Allen. See? I can have different opinions about different aspects of the same debate - the world won’t end!
It’s called critical, nuanced thinking. It’s called showing the courage of your own convictions.
The New York Times - and those media dogmatists quoted in this article who seem incapable of understanding that others might not share their opinion - might try a little bit of it as well.
35
This takes the cake.
I understand how someone would accept claims of sexual abuse without proof other then the testimony of some woman.'What they have to understand is that they have to accept that they can not force their opinion on others.
Alex actually knows these guys and therefore has more of a reason right not to accept these women's allegations because of his knowledge of how these individuals behave tells him they do not abuse women.
12
Alec Baldwin is saying what so many men are thinking, it's no surprise the comments before me defend him.
I'm only surprised that no one has come forward yet to accuse him. His lack of impulse control, his words to his daughter, the way he admits to having behaved with women seem to me to be exactly the sort of terrain that abusive mn dwell in.
I'll admit it, he grosses me out. And I fail to see why he won a prize for his portrayal of Trump. His caricature is a bad caricature of a bad caricature by someone imitating Trump, and the only thing that his portrayal and the person he's portraying have in common is their outrageousness. Melissa did so much better with Spicey. I hope they take him off the air.
2
You fail to see why he won a prize? That's laughable at best, he won it because he's a liberal skewering a republican.
1
More evidence of the far left trying to devour the left. Since when did the thought police take over? Mr. Baldwin has not been accused of anything other than having a temper that sometimes gets him into trouble with his words. Yet in this case he has a different opinion so he's a bad person. If we can't talk through differences of opinion without labels being pasted or people retreating to their tribe of true believers we learn nothing and we are in real trouble.
22
What a dull surprise to see the new Victorians use their truths as a cudgel against anyone who dares to contradict their narrative. The truth comes in shades of grey, which is apparently intolerable to those who are driven by moral outrage.
21
My alarm is growing on a weekly basis about the me too movement. People who have no evidence in support of their allegations are brought forth as if they are Oracles. The entire basis of the movement is that if more than one woman says a sexual allegation is true that it must be so. That premise must be built upon another premise: that we women do not lie. We are human beings. We lie.
Now Alec Baldwin is the newest target. Not because he is yet another such male but because he has the utter audacity to express his first amendment rights. Ms. Farrow did not have proof decades ago and she does not have proof today. That should be the end of it, as Baldwin asserts.
That the New York Times is participating in this I am having increasing trouble with as well. Like a tabloid rag, all it takes is one individual with a story for it to hop on the bandwagon as well.
Alec Baldwin when playing a role on tv has no "duty" to censor his private beliefs. He is not on trial although it is clear that, to a part of our population just about every male in show business should be on trial.
I am a retired attorney and educator. I am also an artist. I believe in our Constitution. I believe in our protections under that Constitution. I am aghast there are now so many who no longer value the same.
Alec Baldwin, I support you.
88
metoo!
10
Alec, I support you too.
3
I went to a book signing in November for Alec Baldwin's “funny” book about Donald Trump. I had come to New York from Wisconsin with my cousin, and was “treating” her to the book signing, too.
Alec Baldwin requested no pictures to be taken near his precious being, only from the sideline wall across the room. He did not make any eye contact with anyone, let alone tourists from lowly cow country Wisconsin. He uttered a two word response when, I, after standing in line for a 1/2 hour, to get the darn book signed, dared to say a friendly sentence to this gala male celebrity.
I believe every word of this article. I’ve worked with the public for five decades in healthcare case management, meeting and having conversations with thousands of families. If you can’t figure people out after all that, one would have to be brainless.
Alec Baldwin seems like a cold man, wrapped up in his own endeavors, own worth of life, and guess what? His version of Donald Trump lost its zest for me and my cousin immediately, and probably for everyone else in line. He’s not the first “celebrity” I’ve ever met and won’t be the last. But he sure was the snobbiest, most self absorbed, and that’s not coming from a country bumpkin, that’s coming from an aware, intelligent woman.
He appeared with his young wife on a talk show a little thereafter and she boasted their life together, and sort of how she didn’t tolerate certain things about him. I just shook my head.
4
So, because you couldn’t take a picture with him...
6
Articles like this are the logical end of the extreme of the "metoo" movement, whose slogan has been "believe women," and whose response to anyone who points out any reasonable doubt is that they are an "enabler." Well, these issues should be matters of evidence and not belief, and there's reasonable doubt about Woody Allen, which was all Baldwin was pointing out.
27
I can't imagine what would compel Mr. Baldwin to tweet about this issue. Perhaps he was stuck in the character he portrays on SNL and had no self-control. Only Mr. Allen and Ms. Farrow are ever likely to really know the truth. However, Mr. Allen has a history of inappropriate relationships with younger women capped by his affair with and subsequent marriage to his step-daughter. Baldwin's comparing Ms. Farrow to Mayella Ewell is, perhaps, ironic, and if not, telling. Mayella is a young woman who is stuck in a home where she is raped by her father. Did Mr. Baldwin read the book?
4
Facts matter: Soon-Yi was not Woody Allen's stepdaughter.
9
The analogy with To Kill a Mockingbird is apt. Do we think Tom’s friends should “stay out of it” because they don’t know enough about the story? Do we think Atticus Finch is sexist because he defends Tom without unequivocal proof? These aren’t easy questions, and we shouldn’t pretend there are easy answers.
6
What "concrete evidence" are abused children to provide? Woody Allen's life provides plenty of evidence of an unhealthy obsession with young girls. He even made a movie about it.
3
Allen does appear to have an obsession with young girls - teenage girls. This is completely different from an obsession with seven year-old girls.
1
One of the more outrageous articles I have read recently and proof positive of the "witch hunt" nature in this period of personal gotcha. As in, "while we don't have proof that this person we don't like did anything for which we can get him burned at the stake, we're going to malign his OPINIONS and try to ruin his career that way."
Hail to Mr. Baldwin for standing up for his beliefs. Condemnation to those who are having their jollies freely slandering people and getting away with it due to the celebrity of their victims. Just because Mr. Baldwin won't join the scared sheep crowd of Hollywood actors who are afraid of losing their career heat if they don't join the crowd of witches, he's supposed to have his being hired questioned.
A disgraceful article with offensive insinuations from numerous pathetic people.
28
Brilliant response. Thank You.
3
I'd tell Alec to pack his bags and have Leslie Jones play Trump. That would push him over the edge.
Even better, get Rosie O'Donnell to play Trump.
4
Baldwin only gets $1400 per appearance according to a NYT piece. It should be him saying “S.I.U.Y.A.”
I haven't watched SNL in twenty years, I rarely hear anyone my age (who remembers the days when there was actual writing talent on the show) even mention it. Baldwin's comedy seems to be little more than the mindless, thoughtless repetition of anything negative about Trump. It is old and stale. No humor, no comedy, only the same old jabbering to make vacuous liberal twits feel good about themselves. The incessant garbage put out by most mainstream US "comedians" and the fawning acceptance of it despite the poor quality is worse than the Limbaugh "ditto heads" some years ago.
3
Thank you.
I always pay attention to people who go out of their way to deny incest when they have no possible way of knowing. I have never felt the need to pretend I personally knew whether or not my neighbor stole from the cookie jar. Then again, I've never stolen from the cookie jar myself.
Don't know about Toback, but I do remember that Connecticut police investigated Mis Farrow's charges intensely -- something like 6 months, giving it the highest priority, before concluding not to file any charges.
In addition, child molesters have this sick compulsion that has this reecklessly assaulting child after child, or re-offending after jail terms. There has never been another accusation that Woody ever bothered any girl or woman in his near 80 years.
Woody's case is totally unlike all of the other powerful men who abused many people over years, never with any criminal investigation.
If the police never found anything nearly 30 years ago after a complete investigation, it's chilling what's happening now.
Ask yourself, for those with enough years, how would YOU defend yourself after 30 years, after being cleared.
35
Now we have character assassination of any man who doubts the complete "truth" uttered by women. Next we will have character assassination of any person who employs or associates with any man who doubts a woman's words.
21
Mr Baldwin is making a fool of himself regarding Mr Allen's past of extremely odd behavior. It seems we are floundering around with all the information now coming out on many people who at one time were held in high regard. So who do you believe? For me if ten people say "this was what happened" and one says "oh no that's not what happened" I would find it nearly impossible to agree with the one.
So you agree with the numerous law enforcement and medical professionals who cleared Allen against his single accuser.
9
Oh my God, please stop with "I'm offended" stuff. Everything, and I mean everything, is offensive, on some level.
I am offended by all the people who feel offended.
14
I'm no fan of a creep who marries a stepdaughter three decades his junior but the Farrow charges were investigated by two independent justice agencies and not pursued. Not even a Grand Jury presentation. Baldwin is just not being caught up in a frenzy that needs a common sense brake.
Time to take a deep breath and put blame where it is proven, not alleged.
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Soon Yi is not his stepdaughter and never was. If she had been, the courts would have stopped her marriage.
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You have the facts wrong.
1. She was not a stepdaughter - Soon Yi says so. Don't you believe her? Her word does not count as Dylan Farrows? Because she is not white and American born maybe? Just asking ...She had a father and a mother.
2. Is there any law to ban men or women form marry younger people? What is this obsession? People are free to do whatever they want if their actions are lawful.
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The presumption here is that we must always side with the accuser in such cases. Which is a dangerous presumption -- and the polar opposite of innocent until proven guilty.
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You're missing the main point, which is that Alec Baldwin has both a history of terrible words and actions (calling his DAUGHTER a little pig) and is going well out of his way to both defend accused men and defame their accusers. This is gross, and has nothing to do with who is guilty and who is not. He could easily stay out of it and have gone unnoticed. But here we are.
1
No, the main point, per the headline and story, is that Baldwin "supports" Woody Allen and James Toback. He has worked with them and knows them, and thus is asked about them and does not have the option to "stay out of it." The fact that he's reluctant to throw them under the bus without more evidence is admirable.
9
I believe accusations against both Trump and Woody Allen. No, I wasn't there but I, based on my professional training and experience in the treatment of sexual abuse and incest (both survivors and offenders) I see multiple glaring red flags, including their own statements about the accusations, their choices, and women in general. Trump history and words are pretty dramatic, in my opinion, and well documented over nearly 40 decades, from multiple sources. One doesn't need expertise to conclude that many of the allegations against him are credible. I think it is less so with Allen, so I'm not ready to shame Alec Baldwin for failing to recognize patterns suggesting risk. I do believe in due process as well, and as much as I welcome the #metoo movement, I think we need to be very careful about blanket acceptance of any one person's "truth". Professionally, I seen examples of false allegations made in malice. I have also seem false allegations made based merely on what someone concluded had happened without any evidence, witnesses, or risk factors. False allegations, even when shown to be false, are devastating to the person accused; they can have long-term personal and professional consequences that we can't take lightly, even in our pursuit of a justice for victims.
13
But do you believe them because you really know the details of each side's story -- have talked to both people in person (as a professional!) -- and evaluated it carefully & fairly -- OR are you reacting out of political animus? or because you just don't like someone's personality?
Karen, in the last election and the aftermath, I've seen otherwise seemingly sober professionals take political positions that were very troubling -- claiming they could "diagnose Donald Trump as _______ (a narcissist or Alzheimer's etc.)" simply by watching him on television. That is a very serious violation of the professional ethics of your field, as well as ILLEGAL -- yet did you call those professionals out? or simply "go along" because you hated Trump too?
If so, you are using some pretty lame situational ethics yourself. I am not sure you are an example for us to follow!
7
We've reached the point where we've become the thought police. That's a dangerous place to be. We all have the right to think what we want, to have our own opinions without being threatened of losing our jobs, which is clearly what is happening here. No one can fire Alec Baldwin for anything he did. But they can force SNL to fire him because of what he thinks. A person can have doubts about Dylan Farrow's story, yes they can. A person can defend their friend while having those doubts. That is within our rights as human beings. You all can have a bonfire and burn their careers down because they don't agree with you - while the world burns. Here is a useful quote by George Soros:
"Something very harmful and maybe irreversible is happening to human attention in our digital age. Not just distraction or addiction; social media companies are inducing people to give up their autonomy. The power to shape people’s attention is increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few companies. It takes a real effort to assert and defend what John Stuart Mill called “the freedom of mind.” There is a possibility that once lost, people who grow up in the digital age will have difficulty in regaining it. This may have far-reaching political consequences. People without the freedom of mind can be easily manipulated. This danger does not loom only in the future; it already played an important role in the 2016 US presidential elections."
Please don't go down this road.
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Yeah, no, if he's going to insert himself in these conversations, he's going to find supporters and detractors based on what he says. There are plenty of non-garbage humans in the entertainment world that can step in and be just as funny (or funnier!) without the side of misogyny.
I love Baldwin for many reasons, but his Trump impressions are hardly high art or biting political satire. There’s not much there to bring down.
5
Cheap mockery of someone's appearance is very easy to do.
Note that almost nobody did this kind of impression about Barack Obama -- it read too closely to the line of "making fun of his blackness" and therefore, in Hollywood, "politically incorrect".
I am reminded very here of "mean girls" that I recall from Junior High school....
4
“You have to be morally above the person you’re spoofing for it to be effective,” said Julianne Escobedo Shepherd, deputy editor of the feminist website Jezebel," not shy at all about making up rules to suit as she goes.
1. no artist has to be anything.
2. no work of art has to "do" anything.
all decisions are left to the beholder and efforts to control thought, theirs or the artist's, or limit their freedoms, if successful, will turn everything into propaganda.
of baldwin: jessica coen, also a model of moral certainty, says "he has to figure out if he’s contributing to the conversation in a productive manner." alas, ye citizens of salem, he does not have to do any such thing, even under the clearly implied threat of burning.
we can say yes or no to any artist, read or discard any book, attend or not any performance, for any reason but the burden is ours whatever we do, including fulminations against artists who behave as they, not we, wish.
the mss coen and escobedo shepherd can find plenty of artists who will serve, (as is their right as well) all they have to do is dial up those whose career calculations kept them from speaking out against the harvey brigade...until they didn't.
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I think the "have to" here refers to the mechanics of satire. A salient comparison from the UK would be Angus Deayton's ouster from the chair of HIGNFY in 2002 for being caught using cocaine and hiring prostitutes. The rationale was that the targets of his satire being able to turn around and say "Well, what about you?" undermined his authority and distracted from the business at hand.
The better point is that Mr Baldwin is defending people against whom accusations have not been proven. But Julie Klausner's reply is valid: who asked Alec?
the "have to" is rather an imperative and ms escobedo shepherd the self appointed abiter...deaton may have been ousted by his judges but his use of cocaine and prostitutes does not qualify his work one way or another...history is replete, as the saying goes.
deaton was removed, he did not wither away because his authority with his audience faded.
mr baldwin spoke out in defense, as you rightly say, of "people against whom accusations have not been proven" and for his expression of this most american of values, he does not need julie klausner's permission.
1
Hey! you liberals created this "politically correct" environment, where everybody is criticized for the slightest deviation from the 'officially correct POV" -- and this is what that brings you! Hysteria -- accusations -- witch hunts -- finger pointing -- and things like the destruction of Al Franken's Senate career, or the shaming of the actor Aziz Ansari by an UNNAMED source in a blog!
I thought liberals were opposed to this sort of thing, going back to the days of Joe McCarthy and "are you now or were you ever..." and so forth. The harassing, the naming of names, the getting people to rat on friends....the blackballing and destruction of careers....NOW LIBERALS ARE DOING IT.
Thanks, hypocrites!
10
This is a curious article to say the least! Baldwin has not maligned or attacked anyone who has made these accusations. He has merely said that he is not willing to destroy people based on an accusation alone. He needs more. As Ms. Klausner said: "It seems very strange to me that somebody who wasn’t there is so compelled to pipe up.”
We might all consider being a bit more circumspect before we pull out torches and pit forks and storm the castle and to remember that indeed, we were not there.
168
I may now have even more respect for Baldwin now, who unlike so many other people in Hollywood have found it easy to jump on the bandwagon. If he keeps it up he might wind up like the Hollywood 10 who refused to cooperate with McCarthy and found themselves blacklisted
128
I will save my respect for Farrow. Telling her story, unwavering, for years and years is much braver than anything Alec Baldwin has ever done.
If you read Baldwin’s comments carefully, he wasn’t defending his friends… He was simply saying that he needed more concrete evidence before ruining someone’s life.
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How much more proof does he need? Pictures? Hidden camera tapes? The man is a hypocrite and his Trump spoof has not been funny for the past year or so.
1
I’m sure both of those would do but I’m also sure he’d settle for any evidence at all. Sadly for Mia Farrow, she’s been unable to manufacture any.
3
"To their growing discomfort, some viewers and critics are finding Mr. Baldwin’s behavior to be offensive."
What behavior is offensive? Defending friends? Isn't this what one is morally obliged to do? Aligning himself with the accuser and not the accused? Wasn't this not so long ago a mark of compassion? Speaking freely? Wasn't America supposed to be a free country?
"Morally above" says Ms. Shepherd. Are you kidding me? Who elected her Jesus Christ?
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The premise of this piece is how can Mr. Baldwin defend men who are guilty?
"The denial of an abuse survivor's truth" as Ms. Klausner puts it. She continues: "It seems very strange to me that somebody who wasn't there is so compelled to pipe up."
Ms. Klausner, youu weren't there, either. And Mr. Allen and other accused me have their truth, too.
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Accused versus guilty are not the same thing. Unfortunately they are seen by many people as synonyms. I’m not saying that they are innocent or guilty, but we should be objective as things play out.
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Our entire justice system is BASED on the belief that you are innocent until proven guilty in a COURT OF LAW.
Strange how liberals -- even professional therapists! -- have forgotten this in favor of "well, those ALLEGATIONS seem convincing!"
Other nations do not have this profound protection of rights -- some of them say you are GUILTY until you can PROVE you are innocent! -- but our system has lasted 250 years and it is a very good system, and you liberals are throwing the baby out with the bath water here -- why? so you can shame or attack Trump!
6
But if you do this for Woody Allen and James Toback....what about Harvey Weinstein and Donald Trump and others? where is the standard of proof here? allegations? how many "allegations" in a dogpile make someone automatically guilty? How do you know when an accuser is more credible than the accused? how DOES a young lady like Dylan Farrow "prove" allegations against her adoptive father, when these things happened in private over 25 years ago?
We're flailing around here, trying to shame and attack people, and in the PROCESS -- in this whole vicious @metoo atmosphere -- truth and proof are thrown out the window, in favor of political correctness and bias and assumptions about people (often based on their public persona or character they play on TV!) and BEHIND IT ALL, very sadly, is the motive that to destroy such people will somehow bring down Trump.
It won't. You liberals are making a hash of things here, that won't get fixed easily -- and Trump will remain.
6