I'd support a 20 billion dollar wall if it was 50 feet high and built around the edge on a tiny uncharted, uninhabited island somewhere in the middle an ocean and Donald Trump was put inside it.
18
The Dems need to compromise. The deal is better for DACA than what it was under Obama’s program. However we need eVerify implemented before we need the wall. It will be more effective.
25
Gee when Schumer, Clinton and Obama each said that DACA needs to go and that anyone who entered illegally should g ono one batted an eye. Trump is trying to uphold laws that are already on the books and he's labeled a bigot. Want proof? Go to You Tube and see the Chuck Schumer "Then and Now" vid or Obama and immigration. It's sad that you leftists have such short memories. But by all means the Dems should stick to defending lawbreakers over American Citizens because that worked out so well for them previously.
Sign me an Indie voter.
26
The only reason that the US doesn't have a Dem president today is because of the party platform on open borders and immigration in general. Does the NYTimes not understand this - do they really believe it was some Russian conspiracy?! It wasn't.
If the Dems continue to open up the US to illegal immigrants (and legal immigrants to the tune of a million or more a year), I will be force to vote for a lunatic. Didn't in 2016, but my patience is gone, as is any admiration I had for left leaning policies. The stance on immigration is the single policy that over-rides all else, as it impacts everything.
42
Don’t do what they ask. And pull the rug out from under them when they are faltering. And when they scream uncle, punch them in the belly. That’s the republican credo.
12
Trump wants to bargain? Trump?
He already made a "deal" on this subject and renegged on it. Liar.
I would not bargain with him for a Mars bar! A waste of time!
19
Why are Dreamers worthy of citizenship? I personally know many legitimate immigrants who sacrificed years of their lives and quite a bit of money to come here the proper way. Dreamers, having been smuggled in by traffickers, are effectively the recipients of slots that should be awarded to foreign nationals who don't believe in cheating or fraud.
28
The NYT and the rest of the MSM never tire of painting the Dreamers as exemplary achievers.
Some are.
Most are not.
California public schools are heavily burdened by huge numbers of Dreamers and Anchor Babies.
Latino students in California score markedly low on statewide measures of achievement in math and reading and writing.
This despite the fact that, for more than 40 years, as a result of court decisions at both the federal and state level, (A) all children -- even those here illegally -- are entitled to public K-12 education (federal court decision) and (B) funding for all school districts is equalized state-wide (state court decision).
So, the comparative lack of achievement of Latino students is not the result of unequal funding.
Furthermore, for the past 5 years, school districts with large numbers of English-language learners (i.e. school districts with large numbers of students who speak Spanish as their primary language) have been receiving "supplemental grants" -- over and above their equalized share -- to the tune of thousands of dollars per student annually -- funded by a statewide soak-the-rich income tax.
Yet despite the 40 years of equalized statewide funding,
and the additional supplemental state funding during the past 5 years,
Latino students still lag markedly in achievement in math and reading and writing.
33
One of the things about living in Canada is being allowed to still believe in government. With affluence being the most reliable indicator of fertility it is nice when the government tells me we need immigration and the educated and skilled will always come to a country as rich and welcoming as Canada but it is the refugees and their families where we need to offer the chances of a better life with security and opportunity.
God knows nobody is going to come here for our winters and this year's record number of wind chill advisories.
5
The photo that accompanies this article is very interesting. Three American flags provide the backdrop for 5 Latino women ( as opposed to children) who are recipients of the DACA program. The five women stare grim faced, unsmiling, distrusting, looking ahead as if the camera were a machine gun ready to mow them down. In the forefront is Nance Pelosi out of focus.
There is an old saying: The camera does not lie.
8
The unwillingness of the political parties to compromise to enact legislation that benefits the nation is a big problem for the country. It is a bigger problem when Members of Congress have no respect for the law. If legislators, who are responsible for enacting laws, have no respect for the laws they enact, why should anyone else?
5
is it me, or does President Art of the Deal seem like he can't tell negotiating from blackmailing?
6
Why not allow parents (along with spouses and children)? Parents are not going to start a chain.
Another idea: If you became a citizen because someone sponsored you, you cannot sponsor somebody else.
5
Who's paying for the wall?
5
Trump wants a “deal” the far right deal - sadly the Senators who voted for the tax bill were duped on immigration and healthcare. All those hard working immigrants contribute to the tax coffers - the Government will need to rely on the uneducated. obese, and addicted Americans to fill the positions - good luck with that. Maybe there is a case for Bernie as the Democratic leader - either the firebrands are not getting coverage or they were extinguished by the ever present Trumpophiles. Media is suckered every day!
The the secret to survival demands that you notice the Tiger in the tree before you pay attention to its branches. The Dems see only the branches, the republicans only the Tiger, which is why each needs the other. Compromise between two existing viewpoints always equals the best solution. This is the tragedy of our times , each side thinks they are one hundred percent right, as do their supporters. The Tiger is getting ready to feast, we better wake up quick.
1
Prosecute the employers of illegal immigrants. Do not give in to paying for the Wall.The DACAs will be OK. 80% of America support them staying.
11
Putting everything in immigration on the table means enforcing e-Verify. If Congress and the President are serious, they will make e-Verify mandatory. If they still just do what the donors want, we won't hear one word about e-Verify, and we sure won't have the H1B or produce picker visa processes cleaned up.
16
Trump is a liar and traitor.
8
The answer is not a wall. If we were serious about illegal immigration, we would fine owners who hire these people. I do not mean minimal fines. I mean, backbreaking, business busting fines. Employers would then not hire illegal immigrants and the illegal immigrants would stop coming across our borders looking for work. We do not need a wall. We need the political will to go after the owners of businesses who hire them in a much more serious and systematic way.
32
No one's talking about a contiguous wall, Bryan - not even Trump. The $$ request is for a mix of walls, fences and electronic measures where appropriate. In addition, the money is to fund additional border agents, immigration judges, etc.
6
Won't happen as most who hire illegals are politicians or big business that is buying the politician
4
With mandatory prison time for repeat offenders.
These business owners are exploiting people and they are stealing from this country- it is the tax-payer that ultimately underwrites the long-term costs of illegal labor.
6
As a Democrat, I smile when I read these comments from Democrats who predict that progressives will "eat Trump's lunch" this November over immigration. It is precisely illegal immigration that gave Trump his victory over Hillary Clinton. In her last 2016 campaign appearances, Clinton promised the Hispanic lobby a comprehensive immigration bill within the first 100 days of her presidency. Her proposal, she said, would include a pathway to citizenship for all those in the country without authorization. There is no chance -- none -- that Democrats will ever be able to pass a 1986 amnesty bill again. It is a fantasy of the left flank or the Democratic Party, and such a bill is impossible even if the Democrats make large gains in 2018 or defeat Trump in 2020. There is too much opposition in Congress and in the country to the Democrats' open-borders rhetoric, much less a bill that makes rhetoric into human rights. Most Americans distinguish legal from illegal immigration; they also distinguish DACA recipients from adults who brazenly flouted U.S. law and stayed in this country indefinitely without filing the proper application.
48
Yet the Dems keep playing their DACA fiddle.
13
The dems need their version of Trump to refute his nonsense. Their leaders are too milk toast and there is no one out there with any presence. They need an in house and younger Bernie Sanders!
8
The only bargain I want with Donald is a plea bargain with Mr. Mueller. He can go whistle.
10
Ah, the argument: Low-Skilled Illegals... All the skills that native-born Americans do not possess. Anyone who believes toiling in a field for 12 hours constitutes low-skills is delusional. Anyone who believes working in the building trades; roofing, plumbing, tiling is low-skill- is also delusional. Anyone who believes working in slaughter houses is low-skill.... Funny thing, the Agricultural lobby has successfully seen that ICE Never comes their way; Raiding 7-eleven nationwide just to arrest 21 people for show.
We must now-re-create a DACA program because the other one was...well- functional and had the name Obama stamped on it. But our Dear Leader has promised his will have LOVE written into the legislation so the Democrats cannot help but love it too?
Perhaps the 2004 Movie *A Day Without A Mexican* should be mandatory viewing for the White House.
12
Low-skill jobs are by definition jobs that require little education and little or no experiences. Most, but not all, agriculture, construction jobs and slaughterhouse are low-skill because workers learn and perfect the required skills on the job. As a fourth-grader with no work experience, I was hired to pick snap beans. The straw boss handed me a bag and pointed me to the picked-over rows.
Most states require professional licenses for plumbers. The Bureau of Labor statistics reports that the national average plumber's salary is about $50,000 a year. Master plumbers earn more than $100,000 a year.
18
@William Case: I am not as concerned with an official definition as the reality of the skill-set required to do the jobs Americans refuse to do: It takes a great deal of skill (btw- mere "education" is not a skill) to know how to pick lettuce, tomatoes, asparagus, onions....what to pick, what to leave,how not to damage what remains in the ground and how to do it efficiently; and fast.
1
"Anyone who believes toiling in a field for 12 hours constitutes low-skills is delusional."
Tell that to a mule, donkey, or a tractor.
4
The bonuses to workers, boy what generosity, give a company billions and they get a couple hundred bucks. Why don't they raise the minimum wage to 15
It Trump wanted to share the wealth, which he doesn't, he should champion raising the minimum wage to 15$ per hour. He can't restrain himself from painting these DACA people as some sort of riff raff which he willing to use to get his wall built. With US tax payer dollars. I guess the Rs will try find some needed program to the poor and middle class they can cut in order for it not to increase the national debt.
7
The DACA group have less then 50 % that graduated high school. Even less are able to speak English as a result. You tell me what you call this group.
31
PS: in English, a group is a collective noun and takes a singular verb. we learned that in school. it was on the test.
we also learned that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
What? They're not ALL rocket surgeons?
6
Protect the kids form deportation, and then put it on the back burner for now. Our nation law enforcement crisis which is more important than most anything at the moment.
The dems need to take care of Nunes and his cohort and get Mueller protected from BLOATUS. If the GOPEE has its way, we won't have any laws--at least none that apply to them.
Welcome to Venezuela---or worse.
7
DACA aside for a minute, how many Trump voters (or anyone) really want to put down a $20+ billion down payment on a border wall / money pit? Since Mexico is obviously not paying for it, this is NOT fulfilling a campaign promise.
16
And illegal immigrants cost us how many billions a year? Well over 100B.
15
I saw the picture of DACA recipients turning their backs to President Trump's speech in this paper. I guess if they don't get what they want, they will turn their backs to us. That does not help me to have positive thoughts of them. I don't see they are in a position to demand anything. President Trump got elected to deal with illegal immigration, since nobody else has had the guts to take it on. I am so sick of hearing the sob stories the liberal media is putting out to show how cruel President Trump is for enforcing immigration law. The cruelty comes from allowing illegal immigrants the idea they can sneak in, use false ID and build a life in the US with impunity. If Democrats can't understand why that is not acceptable I am left with supporting Trump. Illegal immigration is tearing this nation apart.
44
Are you Native American? I thought not
1
Trump is a self-serving, self-centered moron who can't carry a line of thinking in his head, he bounces from short-term perspective to short-term perspective as proposed by either the sycophants that have somehow prostitued themselves enough to work their way in and around him or, even worse, those scary few that he seeks advice from. Why do journalists continue to imbue him with logic and other qualities that he just doesn't have. He goes from tantrum to tantrum, fuming at the fact that he can't just tell everyone what to do and have them do it. So, he settles for getting in front of an audience, saying whatever he wants without being told no, just to hear the claps and cheers. He really doesn't care who's watching from outside of the room at that moment, or even if they're capturing his words. He just wants to bask in the immediate gratification of hearing people clap and cheer him on. Literally, that's all that he cares about.
So, journalists, why do you continue to write your articles in a way that only serves to bolster a myth that he's way more than he really is? Again, there is no position on issues, strategic planning, thinking or a single long-term care about anything else other than "winning", being cheered on and being told that you are a "great" president.
2
You might get a kick out of this illegal immigration story. A few years back an attorney friend in Santa Barbara California was surprised to see his house mate back from Mexico just a week after being bused back home at no charge by our government. Wally asked why he had returned so soon. He answered matter of factly that he had to go to traffic court.
16
Look.....
You have to give credit to Schumer and Pelosi, Bernie and Warren, Harris and Booker!!
Even if you are politically antipathetic to their political principles,
It took GUTS.
Guts to draft and propose a Naked DACA.
Independent legislation that is both clear and comprehensive.
The only better legislative proposal from the Democrats has to be their legislative proposals to strengthen the ACA,
and a rational and comprehensive tax cut and reform proposal.
oh my gosh......
I almost forgot their FY 2018 budget proposals.
GUTS!!!
Trump's plan is nothing short of extortion. "Gimme $26 billion to build my monument to racism, in exchange I might let the 1.8 million Dreamers stay."
America's policy is not to pay ransoms for hostages.
6
thank you.
I can see you understood what you were serving to protect.
American policy should also not be open borders and an endless stream of foreigners dictating our laws.
11
I thought Mexico was paying for that wall, so why is it a negotiating tactic? Oh right, because Trump is a liar. The problem with that is that you can't really negotiate anything with him in good faith, and he only has one thing in mind for negotiations: he wins, and you lose. It's in his nature, just like lying.
5
Trump is holding a gun to the head of the Dreamers and Dems are being blamed?? And the Right is screaming “pull the trigger!” These are some really sick people. Another new low for America, but only until another new GOP low tomorrow. I’m beginning to think that we won’t have enough bleach come November.
5
If Trump were smart (which he obviously isn't) he'd make that wall part of his infrustructure plan instead of immigration policy. Then he could sell it as job creation. It's still a stupid idea, but it would be less controversial. Current rhetoric isn't working and the optics of deporting millennials in an election year will hurt Republicans, not Democrats.
3
No deal on DACA = SHUT IT DOWN
12
The democrats have revealed their political bias by NOT joining with Trump to vote for amnesty. So pathetic and political!. Can democrats be this childish and petty and disingenuous? When republicans promote liberal ideas, democrats STILL will not support them? Pathetic. This is the definition of politics. If democrats could achieve the same legislation, they would vote for it. Please stop the madness.
16
Did you ask the Republicans to stop the madness when Pres. Obama was in office?
2
By reading the comments in this section, I have come to the conclusion that the Democrats are the party of hate.
20
Thunes idea, far from being a nonstarter, is a starter. Repub ain't going to back clean DACA bill. As long as it ain't $25B it could pass. $10B + DACA (not the 1.8M fakeprez is claiming)- that sounds like a deal.
2
What a blowhard. President Blowhard. He complains that Democrats were unwilling to budge and would rather see him fail than make progress on immigration or other issues that would benefit the country. Gee, switch a few nouns around and you remember the Republicans unwilling to budge and would rather see Obama fail that make progress on immigration or other issues that would benefit the country. What goes around, comes around I guess. It's a tit-for-tat country these days. We are all losers, but the biggest loser tells the biggest lies.
4
"benefit the country..." Excuse me, please pass the emesis dish! Trump does and says nothing that is not for his own benefit. Anyone who can sell the slogan "Make America Great Again" is a charlatan and has masochists as clients.
2
Crazy that the Dems are holding the DACA kids and the nation of 330 million dreamers hostage to their allegiances to chain immigrants and special lottery recipients. Not a winning hand Chuck and Nancy.
27
Crazy the Dems are holding these kids (and if they don’t vote for the CR - the country) hostage over chained immigration and the lottery system.
12
The crazy GOP is holding the Dreamers hostage over a pointless wall. Cuts both ways
2
Trump is using the ol' mobster playbook - he threatens his adversaries by promising harm to their children. The Dreamers are children to all of us - no surprise that our tinpot narcissist wants to get his way through a strongarm shakedown by threatening innocents. This is no "deal." He's attacking the Dreamers now - who will it be next time?
2
Anyone who is not white. That’s who
1
Since Donald Trump took office - America is at war with it's self.
The American people need to come together and stand against Donald Trump. We need to stop the bullying, the harassment, the deceit, the lies, the spreading of false facts that Trump likes to spew because he is too, lazy or too, stupid to "read" and learn the truth.
Donald Trump offends me as an American citizen in a thousand ways. At this point in his presidency we should see "good things" about him, or feel a genuine nature to unite our country and bring us together - but none of that exists.
What does exist is hatred, a country that becomes more divided with each passing day, and Trump's continual need for a "win" to boost his fragile ego, at the cost of America's legacy.
I am truly disgusted and sick of Trump.
5
For whatever side you are on this article has a great example of how midterm elections matter!
Trump says: “Either they come on board or we’re just going to have to really work” to elect more Republicans in the midterm congressional elections in the fall.
This is why it is important that people get out to vote in the midterm elections. These elections clearly make a difference in policy development, but most people don't bother.
Exercise your right!
6
The Democrats appear very willing to abandon the DACA kids.
Why?
Many countries match their labor markets with immigrant applicants. Canada being one.This assures better job opportunities for the new citizen and more certainty of contribution to the host country.
10
Because it's a lost cause
3
I'm just curious. How does Nancy Pepsi and her family benefit from the Trump tax changes?
8
Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals doesn't mean deportation is deferred.
It is a program that, though flawed in its omission of a true path to citizenship, was charitable in the best American tradition.
To use these people as a bargaining chip for ANY other issue (even one as tangentially related as Mexican border security) is immoral. It's holding these young immigrants hostage.
2
The people in the photo look really grateful to be here....”what have you done for me? I deserve this!”
20
I recommend a ten-year moratorium on immigration while those legally present integrate into our society, and at the same time, we expel all illegal aliens from our country. Our country will emerge stronger and more unified.
23
Based on numbers only this is a reasonable idea. But only with a sturdy border wall, better border control in general, modern enforcement of visa controls and mandatory e-verify. And proper audits of student and H1b, L1 and B1 visas used over that time.
10
I'm having 2nd thoughts about DACA, not really DACA, I've always supported them and believed they had the rights to become American citizens.
But I am greatly concerned about the rest of Trump's immigration package, in particular the wall! What a ludicrous idea to spend $25 billion building a stupid wall, when Immigrants can still take boat or planes to get into America!
Furthermore, what if we put at least half of that $25 b into education or health??? Our country wd be so incredible if its majority was educated.
Perhaps, a rich donor cd pay for DACA people to be taken care of in Mexico, canada, or even Germany for that matter, until Trump is no longer president, and then our new Democratic president cd order an executive appeal to bring back our DACA friends and make them American citizens asap.
Do I sound crazy? If not, I sure feel desperate.
4
You do realize that the DACA people don't want to (and can't) return to Mexico, and that no "rich donor" can "take care" of some 800,000 people of working age, most all of them educated in English (and sometimes speaking little Spanish at all), in a neighboring country?
2
The Swamp king who is best friends with Russia. I don't think anyone is going to go along with this corruption of government that he is running. Have a memo trying to discredit Mueller, well the opposition has a year of racism on video to hold against the commander in chief, who found five times not to go to Viet Nam. We are not going to bargain on immigration, we are not going to bend to hate. This country is America and everyone is welcome here whether old white men like it or not.. Maybe we should send his evil family and the rest of the haters back to wherever they came from.
3
Maybe Pelosi see should appeal for a deal to the dreamers themselves. Oh wait, she did that and they didn’t allow her to speak and chased her from the room saying they would accept nothing less than full legal status for every illegal immigrant in the country.
23
Trump use these 1.8 million "dreamers", Americans, as hostage to play "politics" to force Democrats to give him money for his "wall" and to restrict legal immigration, that is not ok!
3
Democrats are weak and clueless. I wish I had more faith in their abilities but for Schumer and Pelosi it's pretty much "give him, Trump, what he wants." DEMS will get little in return.
There is finally a immigration deal on the table after 30 years of bickering. The conservative right hates it and so does the progressive left. This independent thinks it is "as good as it gets" and the partisans on both sides need to dull their sharp tongues and pass it.
15
Time for the Democrats to initiate a real conversation on immigration. Accepting Trump's "deal" is both plain mean and stupid. The conversation we need to have is -- what immigration policy is in the best interests of our country? There are both moral and economic arguments. The latter is rarely discussed. The economic argument: The U.S. is a graying society. We need young workers to fuel economic growth and to support our retirees by paying taxes into the system. Most undocumented immigrants are paying taxes and contributing much more than they receive in any benefits. The Trump nationalist policy is to deport working people and break up young, productive families. If we legalized the undocumented, we would be supporting economic growth and increasing the numbers of workers supporting retirees. Immigration has been the only source of U.S. population growth for the last 50 years. Shut it down and we will end up like Japan and Germany -- a nation of old people. Come on Democrats -- wake up and take some leadership.
1
No deal on anything as long as Nunes leads the House Intelligence Committee. Full stop. Non negotiable. No deal on immigration as long Trump continues to create crisis after crisis attempting to blame Democrats for problems that are entirely of his own making. There was no DACA crises until Trump created one all by himself out of thin air. Trump is a thug plain and simple. He is (pun intended) the spitting image of a Mafia Don. He is being enabled by a corrupt congress and this DACA situation now amounts to a hostage crises. Meanwhile we can clearly see the GOP are perpetrating a hostile coup d'etat on the government of the United States of America by undermining all of the structural pillars the founding fathers wisely put in place. They have proven they can no longer be trusted, negotiated with or reasoned with. There is only one thing to do with a mad bull elephant that is completely out of control and pulling the house down around your ears. Feeding him more peanuts is definitely not the answer.
2
Appealing as it is to try to combine issues, no. One thing at a time.
4
Trump's plan makes sense. His tactics, although a little dirty, also make sense. A majority of Americans will support the plan and the tactics. If the democrats turn this deal down, they will pay a price for it in the midterm elections. Of course they will probably pay a price if they accept the deal too, with the Republicans claiming credit for solving immigration. Tough times for the Democrats, Trump is handling this issue well.
13
As far as I am concerned, the progressives should play as hardball as king Donnie. Close the government, play his game!
2
Where did the number $25 billion come from? It was only a few weeks ago, during the bipartisan meeting at the WH, when the Pres was asked about the $18 billion he wanted for the wall, he went on and on that he was a builder, he knew these things and he would bring the wall in under $18 billion. Maybe the Dems should give him $50 billion. He will build it for $30 billion and claim a victory.
1
This is nonsensical.
He says the Dems can’t achieve anything when he is the one who wants to end DACA.
He says Dems won’t be flexible when Schumer was offering to support the wall as part of a deal.
He wants to budget for the wall when he bragged that he would convince the Mexicans to pay.
3
No society wants to be inundated by another, whether it invades by war or uncontrolled immigration. Forcing the public to accept massive immigration resulted in Brexit and the rise of the right wing parties in Europe, which are only called right wing because they oppose dilution of their own cultures with Middle Eastern and North African immigrants who don't assimilate or share western values.
In the US, the Democrats' insistence on open borders elected Trump. The Dems are on the losing side of this discussion because their demands flaunt basic human nature: no one except the the Hispanic lobby and the most naive, starry-eyed progressives wants more millions of low-skilled illegal immigrants who don't even bother to learn English. We cannot accommodate the billions who want to come here, and we need to recognize that before our society and economy are overwhelmed, not after.
17
Mr. Mueller has his own DACA fix, his own version of "promises plus", Mr. Trump.
He promises to find obstruction, collusion and money laundering,
PLUS, a special public perp march out the White-ish house door.
( to the cheers and jeers of the biggest, largest, loudest crowd ever assembled in the world)
1
DO NOT GIVE IN! Let Trump and the Republicans roast. Dare them to send the Dreamers back.
2
Really! If Trump really cared about the immigrants, he never would have ended the compassionate action Obama took. Trump is so consumed with hatred of others that he now professes love because he has been exposed for the hatemonger he is. If Trump really sincerely wants to protect the innocent Dreamers, he can also show compassion and take executive action to defend their equal love of this nation. His theatrics don't fool me, or many others.
Trump is beyond simply hating others, he espouses hatred to win people's love for him, a most despicable character indeed!
Trump needs to see the errors of his ways and embrace the light of love and compassion.
His panics are true Christians and Trump is a curse on them.
3
Democrats:
I am registered as a member of your party. You have my full support and permission to be as uncooperative as you like with this administration. I sense that many people in this country are hungry for you to (figuratively) ball up your fist and hit this bully right in the jaw. People will love it when you do.
4
How do you "come to an agreement" with a madman who is holding a gun to a hostage's head?—which, in essence, is what Donald Trump is demanding of the Democrats: "Give me what I want, or else."
The name for such a transaction is properly "extortion," or maybe "shakedown," not "agreement."
As for the wall, why doesn't Mr. Trump privatize that (along with our nation's infrastructure and everything else he has his greedy eyes on, including outer space)? "Pay as you enter" kiosks with degrees of citizenship for graduated cash payments could make certain that Mexico pays for the wall after all.
2
Republicans have made undocumented people scapegoats. Not once has a single Republican presented a scintilla of verifiable data showing cause and effect for blue collar worker suffering related to the undocumented.
And notice race and sex discrepancies. When minorities and women are struggling economically, the usual right wing charge is that they don’t work hard enough, don’t save enough, have too many kids, stop waiting for the government to figure it out and solve the problem yourself.
But when white males suffer economically? It’s woe is me, poor me, why isn’t the government DOING anything, those brown-skinned “illegals” are cheating me blind.
Scapegoats. Period.
6
Take the deal, Dems. The parts of the deal you don't like can be dealt with down the road.
This won't happen of course. Dems are forever destined to shoot themselves in the foot, cut off their nose to despite their face and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
4
Don Trump must have been exposed to a tremendous amount of Mafia activity in his long Real Estate building career, and it shows. The climate exists for him to be another Biblical Beast, a real danger to Christianity, which Hispanics represent. I implore everyone to not entertain any ideas of harming him as you would only make him madder.
Trump created this controversy and continues to inflame the nation he has put in the grips of hatred and anger.
The Law must prevail over the lawless.
1
Deal? Deal???
Making concessions to get back something you had until it was taken from you isn't a deal. It's ransom.
1
"If you don't pay the ransom, it won't be my fault that the hostages die. It'll be yours," said the man with the gun to the hostages head.
2
I couldn't go to Mexico or any other place in Latin America without permission, move in my family and myself, demand that everyone use English when they address me, help myself to their social services as much as possible, agitate to bring in all my friends, raltives and business associates, boast about how English speaking people like me are their nation's future whether they like it or not, and then scream racism if a citizen dares suggest that it's time to stop and slow down illegal and legal immigration respectively.
Not only is it illegal, it's just rude behavior. DACA recipients aren't supposed to be here in the first place. They should be grateful for anything they get short of deportation.
Democrats are making a BIG political mistake becoming so closely aligned with the maximalist demands of foreign nationals.
19
You can't bargain a nuanced issue like immigration reform with a lunatic, liar, and ignoramus who only cares about his ratings.
The only answer is to not negotiate. At all. Ever.
The Republicans perfected that approach over 8 years, and it won them the Presidency, the House, the Senate, and the Supreme Court.
3
I’d rather the money was taken out in front of the White House and thrown into a bonfire. This was a personal promise made by Trump and he can keep it by having Mexico, or his supporters pay for it.
7
Hasn't Mr. Trump heard of tunnels under walls in an eagerness to get to the other side? 25 Billion for an inflated ego is too high a price to pay.
Where is the compromise on the Right. They have already proven themselves to be untrustworthy, right Susan Collins? The man in the White talks an interesting game but he does not play by any rules, cannot be trusted to keep his word and lies through his teeth, so why bother?
2
Dems get DACA/amnesty for even more folks than they originally asked for. That's the compromise. Duh.
9
Whenever anybody talks about compromise I think of following scenario:
John: You owe me $100.
James: I don’t owe you anything!
John: OK, lets compromise. You owe me $50.
I’ll let you decide who is John and who is James.
I think that’s a fair compromise.
3
How about this scenario. My parents rob a bank and get caught. I, as an innocent child, then demand to keep the money.
11
Trump seems to think everyone's memory is as poor as his own. Does he really imagine we don't recall what actually happened just a few weeks ago, when he stonewalled any deal that Schumer would bring him [after promising volubly that he would sign any deal brought]? The only thing that keeps such threadbare political play-acting alive is the media's tendency to be continually suckered: even running headlines like this current one perpetuates Trump's unfortunate delusion that he can manipulate all appearances through his tweets.
3
My family was some of the first immigrants to enter this great land. 400 years later, millions of others have immigrated to our land. We must be generous and equitable in our immigration laws, while balancing our need for the welfare of everyone. We have room for one more. Send us your needy.
2
Trump does not govern. He extorts.
5
Donald Trump is the school bully who blames the victim for the beating he gives him for not turning over his lunch money. "All you have to do is give me what's yours and all this can be avoided." That he is using the lives of nearly a million young people as a bargaining chip, as leverage, is beyond inhumane. The only thing that's a question mark about Trump at this point is whether the more apt description of his character is vulgar or soulless.
3
It was Trump who ended the Dreamers' program and then set an arbitrary deadline. He is the one who suddenly added additional immigration demands, with two enormous permanent changes that have strong white nationalist undertones.
Bipartisan groups have been working for months on a compromise. Trump is the one constantly sabotaging negotiations including his racist and vulgar comments on the entire continent of Africa, some Latin America countries and praise of white Norwegians.
You broke this, Republicans. You own it. If you want a budget passed or the government to stay open, you have to work with Democrats, compromise, solve the problems that you created, and stop insulting everyone.
Lost cause, I know, in the era of Trump but complete incompetence and inability to govern is your signature and corrupt brand now. Retreat all you want.
5
Trump is willing to provide amnesty to DACA and more (1.8Million). What else are the Democrats expecting ? Why can't they meet the Republicans half-way ? Looks like the Democrats are holding the Republicans and the country hostage.
13
DACA is what EVERYONE wants -- even Trump. Just ask him. He's just holding it hostage to get other things on oh some people want. He's getting that the car right will cause his bill to fail so he can blame it on the dems.
1
Open borders and unfettered immigration are the only thing Dems are interested in!
13
Trump created this farce, by reversing Obama's creation of DACA, in order to bargain DACA back in exchange for $25 billion for his wall. Worse, if he gets to spend that money, he will then do unwise trade things with NAFTA so he can claim that Mexico ultimately is paying for the wall.
What does the DACA cohort get out of this anyway under your scheme? You're ignoring something.
4
Trump saying a thousand dollars is a lot of money is like saying to your dog “here’s a treat” and giving them your pizza crust. The middle class deserves some of what Trump bragged he was giving his resort friends, not just crumbs.
2
You don’t negotiate with terrorists or dictators. Trump is both, harming more of us each day. Just refuse him. There’s no option until the mid-term elections.
3
Donald J. Trump and the GOP are playing DIRTY! It's time for the Democrats and others to fight fire with fire--they need to use the same dirty tactics to provide the American people with the TRUTH. Trump lies all the time. And the GOP have begun to lie like Trump--profoundly troubling in today's America.
1
Trump made a DACA deal with Senator Schumer. Trump was on-board until the extremists in the White House said NO. So Trump reneged on the deal.
Donald Trump and the White House can NOT be trusted to make and keep a deal.
Donald trump is using hardball tactics to get his 'Wall' and cuts to immigration. In the State of the Union speech he called All Americans 'Dreamers'. A clear effort to hijack the phrase. Just as he hijacked the NFL protest during the national anthem, making it about the Anthem and the Flag & Country.
Speaking of immigration, Senator Orrin Hatch is working a bill through the Senate to DOUBLE the number of H1-b visas issued. This is giving away American Jobs that should be for YOUR children NOT imported Indian and Chinese Computer Programmers and other IT positions in Silicon Valey and Wall Street! Yes, the banks, hedge funds and private equiy are in love with their low cost H1-b visas!
SO SAD!!
5
President Obama said 22 times the he did not have the authority to do DACA but did it anyway. It was an illegal and unlawful act which left 800,000 kids in limbo. Kicking the can down the road was something that the community organizer did well. Mr. Trump wanted the DACA kids to have a permanent solution done right and lawful by congress and that is just what he is doing, making congress do their job and give these kids a permanent status.
17
Ignore Trump. He cannot be trusted.
He cannot be bargained with, since he keeps no deals.
He has burned and bankrupted everyone he has ever dealt with in business and now again in politics.
Work through Congress to create a simple clean DACA bill, pass it and let him veto it.
Then hope he goes away by 2020.
End of story.
P.S. When Mexico puts up the cash, he gets his wall. Stick with this line when he keeps crying like a baby.
3
It has become obvious that Trump only goes to bat for issues that can benefit him personally in terms of adding to his portfolio bottom line. He was missing in
action over the Obamacare fight, government shutdown because neither issue benefitted him. But he was all gung ho with the tax bill because he will gain millions from certain provisions that benefit the wealthy. He is also going to bat for DACA because he wants that wall which will benefit his construction company at extortion prices. And not to mention rental of apt in Trump Tower
for secret service at USD130,000 per month and all his golf holidays and those of his family, also Melania's stay at Trump Tower for 6 months. Since when did the US become Trump;s private atm machine? It's my money paying for all this and what do I get in return: a despicable human being.
3
Can't trust anything he offers...it's always bait and switch with this guy. He's always playing for the best PR moment. There is no deal here.
My white American friend supports legalizing all illegal people, including those with T. P. S.
I asked him today if I could sleep in his house for a couple of nights. He said “Sure”. Then I asked him if I could stay 2 weeks ... or a month. He said “Nope, I’d ask you to leave the third day”
“Then -I asked- how come you want people who came temporarily (TPS) to stay?”
We discuss the issue for 30 minutes, and got nowhere.
12
Do not expect logic from people of that mindset.
6
Personally, I think Democrats should hold firm for a DACA deal that is acceptable to the broader public. Permanent status for DACA, without loss of permanent status for their parents is a must. The tide may be turning against Republicans. The tax cut is revealing larger deficits and greater borrowing from China. The Mueller investigation has probably gained another cooperating witness of significance. No one of wisdom wants Trump deciding matters of War, particularly with nuclear weapons. And, the Nunes memo just reveals a widening obstruction of justice involving Congress as well as the White House.
2
Truly ending Illegal Immigration would necessitate a "moon shot"-type program…A program supported by Republicans and Democrats…Not a slap dash "wall" that might not be effective at all...Why should the US or even Mexico be willing to pay for a wall that might not serve its purpose?
Presumably no American approves of illegal immigration...Sure, let's be nice to folks already here...But Dems could get behind a truly thought out program to secure borders...Can immigration ever become coherent? Perhaps it is impossible...
Are there better ideas out there than this cockamamie wall?
2
Most Americans want to grant DACA enrollees citizenship or legal resident status, but know open border advocates will work to thwart efforts to curtail future illegal immigration. In 1986, we granted amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants based on promises that the federal government would stop future illegal immigration. But the promises weren’t kept, and the resulting tsunami of illegal immigrants quickly pushed the number of people in the country illegally to more than 11 million. As a result, most Americans want to grant DACA amnesty as part of a legislative package that includes measures to deter future illegal immigration and secure the border. And many Americans think the legislative package should include a switch to a merit-based immigration policy similar to Canada’s immigration policy. There is nothing wrong, immoral or “racist” in demanding a deal that is good for Americans as well as Dreamers.
22
And when republicans are willing to work on these issues without holding these kids hostage over it We can work on such an immigration bill. We can probably get one passed without the need for extortion.
It is appropriate to include DACA in the immigration solution because DACA recipients are part of the immigration problem.
8
Once again, Trump created a crisis and used real live people as hostages for power. The current "negotiations" have nothing to do with DACA and everything to do with Trump's desire for his legacy to be a great big beautiful wall (I was surprised to see that the samples didn't bear large gold letters spelling out his name...could be in the final plan). This came on the tail of many of his other real estate ventures fading into the sunset, which I suspect is what prompted him to run for the presidency to begin with...after all, he could be outrageous and get his name in the papers every day. If you can't be accepted by the social group you aspire to, you can at least garner national news coverage. The folly was that the media fell into his trap.
The result now is that that the DACA kids (who by the way, are actually a rich national resource, having strived and achieved academic excellence, military service honor and professional achievement) are being used as a pawn in an "emergency" that Trump created solely to have a bargaining chip. Is he really such a great dealmaker? I think not. But I will give his credit to being a Master of Destruction -- politically, philosophically, and personally to millions of Americans.
3
MS-13
342 serve in military out of 800,000?
1
It's time for the Democrats to call this deranged president's bluff and refuse to deal with him on DACA as part of bundled package that includes 25 billion dollars, not pesos, for a border wall. Just what does he think the federal courts are going to do if his corrupt administration attempts to actually deport 1.8 million immigrants. His remaining time in office - lets hope it's very short - would be better spent mending fences with his wife who appears to get along just fine without him. Blood and soil to her means Barron, and wherever trump isn't.
1
The article’s assertion that Trump offers 1.8 million young undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship in exchange for “pulling back on family-based immigration and ending a visa lottery program intended to promote diversity among immigrants” is misleading. The visa lottery was created to partially offset the effects of family reunification, which produced a non-diverse stream of immigrants. Nearly 75% of all new immigrants enter the United States on family reunification visas, even with the visa lottery in effect. Restricting family reunification visas to spouses and children would make the visas lottery unnecessary. Trump’ proposed policy would be much more effective than the visa lottery, which admits only about 50,000 immigrants per year.
6
Trump makes a big show of cancelling DACA. Then Trump makes a big show saying Democrats are responsible for the demise of DACA. What a guy!
2
The democrats say they care about immigration but when it comes to the comments they seem to only care about the memo coming out tomorrow. Why? They pretend to be for immigration but they only care about power. Just like the republicans. Those who are wondering why there is zero comments in this article compared to a memo must realize like the rest of us poor Americans we are just pawns in a power struggle. For the poor we have no friends in high government. We are just tools.
5
“Don’t fall into the trap”?! Don’t worry, Mr. president, intelligent people won’t fall into your trap.
Unbelievable. Our (negative name-calling) president takes a positive description- “Dreamers”- and turns it into something combative. Everything is “us vs. them” and his speech about unity is a joke. He can “outwit” the Democrats simply because he can say anything... no one expects intelligence or integrity. He’s an intellectual terrorist.
1
Some of the best of immigrants brought with them some of the worst. The Maffia. The Tongs and the 19th century Irish Mob. We didn't "throw out the baby with the bath water" Our law officials, (often the FBI) were tasked to address the criminal elements in our population. Today we are looking to put up barriers to immigration and undermine the FBI.Something is wrong with this picture.
4
We have a great chance to make a deal or, blame the Dems!”
This is exactly why I think the Democrats should take the deal. Trump and the Republicans cannot be happy about the prospect of losing in the midterm elections. They need a weapon against the Democrats and have found one. The DACA portion of the deal can be seen as a win for the Democrats and polls show a majority Americans favor protection of children who had no say in being brought here. I doubt there is the same support for chain migration or the visa lottery system. The idea that a wall will keep drug dealers out is ridiculous, but I would like to see the fiscally conservative Republicans in the house defend adding to the deficit after their costly tax bill passage.
There is already opposition in the Republican controlled house to this bill so if it dies there because of lack of Republican support who will take the blame then?
Giving Trump and the Republicans "amunition" to use in the midterm elections is not a good move. I have voted both for Republicans and Democrats in the past, but so many of the current Republicans in Congress will "stand" for the anthem and the flag, but not for any of the ideals this country was built on! So I hope the Democrats will keep the end goal in mind, because there is much more at stake here then the immigration issue.
4
It might be worth remembering that prior to the Clinton Administration - movement by Mexicans between the U.S. and Mexico was very fluid with Mexicans working here and then returning to Mexico. Clinton iniated "reforms" with more border restrictions with the result that Mexicans were fearful if they left the United States - they would not be able to return - and so they stayed. Congress and Trump might want to think about that before they agree to spend Billions on a wall.
3
"The Buck Stops Here"
A quaint liberal idea that Conservatives think is naive and antiquated.
6
I do think the democrats are eyeing the mid-term elections and don't want to work with Trump on immigration. That is a huge problem in our government now. Our elected officials are always so concerned about the next election cycle that the work of the people becomes secondary to becoming re-elected. Such a simple solution here: give Trump his wall and he'll give them DACA.
2
Mike..we do not need a wall, period. Infrastructure and jobs if this freak and his administration want any respect. And the Republican party has an obligation to give who is here, a path to citizenship. Democrats have always been for the people, Republicans care more about, "what about me?".
"Give trump his wall and he'll give them DACA."
You're cute. Did you know that's what the Dems did last time and it was rejected by trump? Also: trump does not negotiate in good faith. Says one thing one day, another the next. Have you noticed?
2
The Democrats cannot afford to let immigration be the defining issue of 2018. Putting aside what the appropriate policy might (essentially - it's complicated), it's just not an issue that will rally enough voters to their side. Obviously many Trump country voters support more restrictive immigration policies and even among more centrist voters, immigration doesn't have a lot of personal relevance for many of these voters. Topics like the tax bill, our foreign policy towards Korea, preserving the ACA, preventing further climate change induced natural disasters and ensuring the fairness and validity of our elections affect the entire country and hence the entire electorate. And it's on these topics, that the Democrats can more easily paint Trump as being clearly in the wrong as a strong-man wannabe who's in bed with big business when they focus on these topics.
Quite simply, if the Democrats "stay strong" as some commenters are urging. They will in fact stay weak by failing to pick up additional seats in 2018, and the results of that could be disastrous for far more than just the immigrant population. The Democrats should ensure that legal immigration levels are kept at current levels, negotiate down how much money they give for the wall, and agree to end chain migration and the diversity lottery for a points-based system that still gives some points for family members already in the US.
8
IMO the Trump plan is a bluff... The hard right in the house is unlikely to approve the bit with 1.8 million getting a path to legality (at least not approve it as it has been presented so far). It is a gamble for sure, but if the D's call his bluff and approve what has been presented, I think the odds are that it will not pass the house.
Trump had a deal, a bipartisan deal. He promised to take the heat and sign a deal that took care of dreamers, a bill of love.
Then he torpedoed the deal after embracing it.
He’s the one under pressure, not the Democrats. He created this problem by canceling DACA, he can make a deal that Democrats agree to, he can shut down the government, or he can role the dice and reinstate DACA and try again.
3
Putting aside the discussions about compassion of their fellow beings (something I'd expect from a nation that leans on its religiosity), there's one thing that's ignored. That is the economics. Population growth in the US is pretty flat. One of the factors in the equation of economic growth is the size of a country's population and expanding population can mean increasing economic growth. So there's a risk that if we seriously cut back on legal immigration and/or deporting millions it might negatively impact our economy.
I don't understand why nobody ever brings this up. The Boomers will age out in the next decade. Millenials and Gen-X don't have the numbers to both replace them and care for them as they age
Like it or not Democrats are proving just as stubborn and unwilling to compromise as they have correctly faulted Republicans in the past. They speak of the unfairness of not bing invited to the table on issues but have no appetite to compromise.
4
Trump created the crisis by cancelling DACA.
He could/should stop harming these kids, and diffuse the crisis.
The damage being done is Trump's fault and we should all remember that come Nov.
2
Use the trillion (?) $$ for the wall to prosecute employers and shut down the jobs. No jobs, no illegal immigrants. Use what's left over to improve the green card program for legal immigrants.
Will probably be a giant hit to our economy as starting wages ( and hence prices ) will rise dramatically.
1
Do you call it extortion when a guy threatens to destroy your house if you don't give him permission to build a spite fence?
Do you use the same word it he threatens your friends if you don't give him money for a wall?
Who set the DACA deadline?
2
The ending of DACA was a cynical ploy to inject more partisan dysfunction into what remains of our system of governmental power-sharing.
It's just sad that so many ordinary Americans will be victimized, so he can create more confusion.
It may be vain, but one can't help but recall that as a result of the unpopular Mexican war in 1845 (Lincoln's spot resolutions) which was mostly a creation of the slave states who needed to expand their system, we basically robbed Mexico of one third of it's territory, getting Texas, New Mexico, and California.
Hey all you Christians out there. They are our neighbors. Didn't Jesus have something to say about loving your neighbors?
The New York Times’ assertion that Trump is offering 1.8 million a path to citizenship in exchange for building “an expensive border wall” is purposely misleading. Trump is asking for $25 billion to tighten border security, but the money isn’t just for a border wall. It would pay for “construction of a border wall system, ports of entry/exit, and northern border improvements and enhancements.” The $25 billion is slightly more than half the $45 billion the Senate approved for border security as part of the 2013 bipartisan comprehensive reform bill that died in the House of Representatives. The “border wall system” would not be a wall that stretched from the Pacific Coast to the Texas Gulf Coast. It would a wall in some places, a fence in some places and surveillance technologies to fill the vast spaces in between. No one is going to build a wall across the Texas despoblado.
8
I'm amazed that so many commenters here suggest that the Democrats take Trump's "deal." They, along with Republicans, put forward a bipartisan proposal a few weeks ago (or was it months ago!), and Trump rejected it out-of-hand.
But here's the real point: Trump's proposal to give a path to citizenship to up to 1.8 million Dreamers doesn't have a ghost of a chance of passage in the GOP-controlled House. So while he huffs and puffs at Democrats, perhaps he ought to aim some of his manufactured ire at his own Party, especially Paul Ryan.
Trump's deal is a cynical ploy designed to extort Democrats to vote for a plan that looks humane and progressive on its face as regards the DACA cohort, but is nothing more than a chimera.
11
One Democrat senator and one Republican senator put forth a proposal that had no chance of passage in the Senate, let alone the House.
3
Indeed, I too am firmly amazed and ashamed of those alleged fellow Americans. Schumer even wanted to give him the National Bigotry Monument, for Pete's sake—which would wall off exactly no determined immigrant, but would sure reflect covfefe's narcissism, snake heart, and faux strength for decades to come.
Instead of perpetuating a race-purity immigration policy whose train has sailed (thank you, Austin Powers), promotes and further restrains an already absurdly long and extreme vetting process, and punishes innocent children and families for the actions of employers who are stingy and of Americans who are rightly unwilling to take work from said employers; just make employers, doctors, realtors... prioritize longtime citizens (especially the indigenous "Indians") without outright banning them from business, and preserve immigrant freedom of movement.
That way immigrants aren't arbitrarily kicked out and forced back to their dictator's open-air prison just because Locals Only, but still firmly encouraged to collect enough money and resources to sustain themselves before committing to life here; and longtime Americans can get the jobs they want (they DO want gritty farm-work and manufacturing jobs, right?) with the non-slave wages they should expect.
That is what made it a compromise.
Many of us- citizens- want the law enforced. We do not want to give anyone a pass.
And the Democratic Party- they want everyone with a pulse and a sad story.
1.8 million is the COMPROMISE. Republicans do not get to deport everyone and the Democrats do not get to turn the country into a third-world cesspit of humanity.
7
The Democrats and Obama conveniently ignored immigration, despite their promises, when they controlled the presidency and congress. Now they are paying attention when it is politically expedient.
20
Isn’t that what political parties do. And, I didn’t see the Republican Party jumping to do anything until recently.
2
Yes, Obama and the Dems "wasted " (irony) their political capital on health care reform. I am proud to say that in my state some of the state lawmakers are insiting on environmental impact statements before any state land is given for the purpose of a federal wall. At least 30 federal laws were waived to be able to build a monstrosity that will not help stem the flow of undocumented immigrants and certainly will hurt animal migrations etc.
4
You conveniently ignore that a bipartisan group of Senators passed an immigration bill in 2013 68-32. However, the Republican Speaker of the House refused to even bring it up for a vote, knowing it would pass. The same thing happened in 2006 when Dems supported Bush 43's immigration plan. Know your facts.
1
Today’s media is structured in such a way that people can selectively consume only the views they want to hear. Over time, this selective ingestion of facts has created an extraordinarily polarized electorate. I’m a fiscal conservative, but now live in Colorado...which is quickly transitioning from red to solid blue. I’m surrounded by people who care about the environment and other generally liberal issues. They are open minded and tend to respect other people’s differing opinions. ‘You’re gay and want to be married? Who cares!’ I moved to Colorado as a conservative, but the people and media I am surrounded by have made me liberal. When I read quotes by Republicans, they frequently sound like hate-filled bigots from another planet. On the other hand, my parents still live in rural Pennsylvania. When I return home, their media ecosystem is entirely different... and liberals sound like the kookie ones. At what point do we become so polarized, people take up arms against one another? It sounds far-fetched, but unless we bridge the divide between us… the situation is going to get far worse before gets better.
20
If you pay attention and keep track, you'll find that the vast majority of hatred, anger, bigotry and uncivil discourse emanate from the left. They still can't accept that Trump won.
9
Reinhold...
We're already there. Mass shootings in every part the country are vivid but extreme examples of the rage and hopelessness some people feel toward fellow Americans and "the system" itself.
1
So the liberals in Colorado are open minded and respectful and the liberals in PA are kooky? Some conservatives are intelligent thoughtful people and others are hypocritical dummies. Unfortunately for the GOP, there is many more of the later than the former in the current party.
1
Here is why I believe that liberals are hypocrites when it comes to racial integration. Here is a quote taken from another NYT article today that was about the dismal state of the Hempstead school district in NYC, the bastion of liberalism:
"Hempstead has close to 8,000 students. Seventy percent are Hispanic, and many of those are recent immigrants. Nearly 40 percent of students are not proficient in English, and 70 percent come from families who are on some form of public assistance."
Ok, so there is a whole school district in New York City that is so segregated that 70% of the population is Hispanic, and I checked the .gov website for Hempstead High school and of the 1,894 students at the high school, 793 are black, 1069 are Latino, and 20 of them are white. There is also 1 Native American and 7 Asians. That is almost total segregation.
So in segregated Long Island, 70% of students come from families on some form.of publica welfare. Not only is it segregated, but it doesn't sound like many educated liberal elites of any race call Hempstead home.
Where are these liberals? In Merrick Union Free School District, which went to Clinton on 2016 (A lot of Long Island went to Trump, but not Hempstead). 85% of the students are white, 1.9% of the students get free lunch, and 33.2% of the population had a graduate degree.
Now that's hypocrisy. These places are 8.3 miles apart. It takes 16 minutes to drive between the two places. Is that integration?
23
Cherry picking is a wonderful experience if you get to eat the fruit, and it is, unfortunately for you, a sport that can occur anywhere in the country. I could go to a very conservative part of the U.S. and find find plenty of evidence that point to how conservative have circumvented the law by withdrawing their children from public schools, and created private “academies” that discourage or, in fact, openly reject minority children from attending. Just what are you trying to prove with your statement? I would suggest that’s what you are seeing is less about racial or ethnic segregation as it is about economic segregation.
2
You write that "So in segregated Long Island, 70% of students come from families on some form.of publica welfare."
From being segregated to being on public welfare is a big jump, how did you come to that conclusion?
2
So if someone is liberal, they should immediately sell their home to move somewhere where minorities choose to buy their homes or else I am a hypocrite. That is some bizarre reasoning. Often time recent immigrants buy in areas where the housing prices are depressed and where their friends and community reside. If I choose not to move to a Jewish community does that mean I hate Jews too? Do I need to buy a home in every community to prove I do not hate the people who live there?
2
Why doesn't Trump just change the definition of his "wall" to include drones and computer technology that prevent illegal border crossing and track people who overstay their visas. Start calling it a "virtual wall", which sounds better than "wall", and makes a lot more sense. I mean, he does know that people are laughing at the absurdity of a brick and mortar wall, right? Fund the virtual wall, throw in citizenship for 2 million young people, and you have a narrow but decent deal. Save the rest for later.
4
That IS what Trump means when he says wall.
"Wall" is a metaphor and something people can visualize.
2
There is a short memory here. You said bring me a plan and I will OK it. You said I will take the heat. A deal came. A bi-partisan one. You were OK with it. Than a few hours later Cotton came in and scared you out of the deal. Take the heat? It only took a hour or two for the greatest deal maker in the world to scurry away from a deal he had been sold on. We don't have a great deal maker. We have a mouse that roared.
10
The majority of Americans want DACA. The majority of republicans want DACA. Trump wants DACA.
Trump has masterfully turned something that everyone wants into the bargaining chip he is going to “give” to the Dems in exchange for what he wants.
2
It depends on what you mean by DACA.
Do most want to avoid seeing mass deportations of high school and college kids? Yes.
But what about angry looking thirty year olds? Less support.
And what does support DACA mean? Does it mean citizenship? Far less support that.
People support DACA in theory. Go into details and you no longer have strong majorities.
Anyway- the tide is changing. More and more citizens realize that our country no longer works for the people who are supposed to be here.
9
I want DACA to go away. DACA is a jerry-rigged way to evade our immigration law. It has caused confusion and strife. It has not stopped one person from trying to enter the country illegally or overstay a visa. If anything it has inadvertently encouraged more of the same.
Our government should work to make our lives better, not cause perpetual uproar.
The Trump compromise addresses this situation better than any other alternatives. Let's get this done and move on.
7
I’m very sorry but the Dreamers will have to wait until later we have a country to save.
8
In so many ways trump is dead set on causing a constitutional crisis , whether by firing Mueller , another government shutdown , let me count the ways . He wants it his way only , he'll never agree to anything because he expects everybody else to bend to his will. The Democrats need to stand firm because he'll blame them anyway ; he is holding the whole country hostage . This man met with the enemy of the United States and it wasn't to discuss policy , I call that treason . Even if the Dems come to an agreement with him about DACA and immigration , he'll change it . He is against immigration that is not lily white.
3
Trump can just reinstate the DACA program that was working well before he trashed it. There's a deal for you.
5
This is a stalemate. There will NEVER be a wall built by taxpayers money. There will NEVER be an expedient path to citizenship~even from children brought her without their knowledge. Why do we tie these two disparate subjects into a knot? No one will win.
3
I'm no fan of Trump but I cannot see a logical reason why the Democrats would not accept this deal. Like it or not, Trump commands the thoughts and feelings of a sizable portion of this country that is tough on Immigration.
A path to citizenship for 1.8M Dreamers in exchange for additional money for border security and a few changes to immigration law that may benefit (or at the very least placate) lower income Americans sounds like a good compromise.
Democrats should understand that their rejection of this deal will only deepen the political divide in this country between liberals and conservatives and possibly endanger their attempts to take back Congress.
It's childish to say "but the Republicans obstructed too" (even though they did). The point is to be the bigger person and compromise for the good of the Nation-- not to win an imaginary team sport of Republicans vs. Democrats in which we all become the losers.
21
Trump created the crisis when he canceled DACA's protections. He lit a fuse that is burning down. The judiciary may yet stop Trump from another self-immolation, but right now he has thrown 800,000 young Americans into confusion and despair.
Why should the Democrats agree to a hostage negotiation with an autocrat who has not yet made any deal with any Democrat, has not yet taken the heat for an unpopular position? Why should Trump be rewarded for demanding his four noxious pillars with little support (20%, half of his base and one in five Americans) in exchange for agreeing to something that 80% of US citizens, four out of five Americans, want (DACA kids = citizens)?
Why are immigration demands tied to the budget at all? This feckless administration does not have a multi-year budget, and instead continues to starve agencies that it doesn't like and talk a big game about defense spending (which has not suffered under Democrats or Republicans). The Democrats should demand a spending bill greater than three weeks, stripped of any other issue, before negotiating anything else with Trump. Donny already proved that he cannot sign a deal without his minders' approval (Miller and Kelly), and that really is the reason that the government shut down last time and will again. The roller coaster ride defies the purpose of a budget, which is the primary responsibility of Congress. Ignore Trump and do your job -- pass a budget that expresses your priorities, and ignore the sideshow of DACA.
2
That fuse needed to be lit.
4
Donald lit the fuse . . . the DACA kids' parents brought the bomb.
3
I really found this article misleading. The fact is that family chain migration would only be limited to spouses and children. Before you could sponsor your brother and then he could sponsor his wife and then his wife could sponsor her grandparents and on and on. Each person should have an equal shot at immigrating to America. You shouldn't get a free pass because your cousin got here.
Heck, in this economy I see my Mom once a year or less. In fact, I was so busy that I didn't see my Mom for 2 years straight because the rat race is so intense. I had to move 2000 miles away from her to find a job. I don't see why an immigrant should have a right to have their cousins in America when most Americans don't even have time to get to know their cousins. I haven't seen my cousins in over a decade, we are all over the United States trying to survive. We might as well be in different countries. I don't need my uncle in America to survive. In fact, one of my uncle's moved to Peru to be a gold prospector and I haven't seen him in 15 years! Why can immigrants expect to have their entire nuclear families around them when in today's economy a nuclear family means stagnation and poverty because the only way to make money is to pack up and move to where the jobs are?
I'm fine with spouses and children. That makes sense. Importing your grandparents or your uncle's I think is unfair to all the other immigrants and to American citizens like me who had to leave their families to survive.
18
This is galling. Trump terminates the DACA program and then accuses the Dems of "doing nothing." I hope the Dems remind anyone and everyone early and often that it was Trump who eliminated DACA.
5
Trump created this problem. If he hadn't said he was cancelling DACA there would be no issue. It's gas lighting at its finest.
2
The Democrats are admittedly in a very difficult politcal position. They have made the case for saving the Dreamers from deportation. But, President Trump has set the ransom for these political hpstages so high that many on the left have rejected his "four pillars" which set very draconian terms to allow a pathway to citizenship for both DACA recipients and those eligible for DACA. Saving 1.8 million lives cannot be ignored. It is a moral imperative that shpuld and cannot be ignored. Yes, it would be appropriate tp negotiate that "chained migration" should never be applied to parents and siblings. And the equally harsh waiting period should acknowledge the time these vetted immingrants have been herr and be reduced to five years--the normal waitibg time for citizenship. But, in tje end, the moral high-ground is saving human lives. And, it's incumbent uppn the Democrats to do exactly that.
Was this a speech that Mr. Trump made on his way to Mar-a-Lago, where he’ll be served by his H2B Visa staff?
2
Mexico is supposed to pay for the wall. That’s what the president said in the campaign, that was his promise. He should be held to his promise.
2
When we e-verify people making cash remittances and start taxing people who are not here legally at 50% on their remittances, Mexico really will be paying for the wall. It's a simple strategy and doesn't cost American citizens and legal residents or visitors a dime.
4
Our country is being "led" by someone who thinks every aspect of governing is a business deal that has a winner and a loser, and he has to be the winner. So he wants to take away something the country already had and then sell it back to us at a huge profit for his party, or in this case, for his wall.
Expecting Democrats to give concessions to help Dreamers when there are clearly Republicans who support them as well, is a crisis of his own making. It's a ridiculous negotiation tactic and is against his stated position on the issue.
Oh, and wasn't the vote on Dreamers already the concession for ending the budget shutdown?
2
If the Democrats don't deal then it's obvious they don't care about the Dreamers. Talk about cynical politics. And no...there won't be legislation to protect Dreamers even if Democrats get the House in November. Democrats claim to care about these specific people. Then do a deal.
4
Sadly, Trump has the upper hand and Democrats are losing. I actually think Trump is very reasonable when it comes to immigration reform. The current path is not sustainable. Let's just be honest. No country should allow people crossing borders freely. Further, I don't agree with the reasons offered by Mr. Brooks in his piece from the other day. In essence, all the arguments for immigration can be summarized as (1) native-born are becoming complacent and this country needs rejuvenation by taking in more immigrants. (2) This country is aging and we need more immigrant workers to support retirees. (3) We need immigrants to do jobs native-born refusing to do. The fundamental problems of this assessment are (a) we should not bundle immigrants together as one group and (b) The solutions are very polarizing. Basically, we are talking about replacing citizens of this country by a different group of people. How can this idea work? You tell me! Fundamentally, the business model of this nation really needs a readjustment. The consumption based GDP growth is simply unsustainable. It is about time to have a brand new debate and thinking. Personally, I want less growth and less urban sprawling. I am literally watching the disappearing of farm land every day when driving to work. The state of Oregon will have millions more coming. This is crazy and we are becoming another CA! Wise up.
12
DACA will go through, no matter what the Democrats agree to. Trump cannot back off now, and wants to get more concessions from the Democrats. Miller wants to go beyond illigal immigration, and crack down on legal immigration and citizens of color. Should Democrats get along, they will only have something to lose.
1
Eighty seven percent of Americans, and even a majority of Republican and traditionally conservative voter support DACA, so I am confident that at the end of the day they will be allowed to remain with us. Trump is a blustery braggart for sure, but I have to say he is leveraging this issue, or any issue, to get something he wants. Whether it's a wall or enhanced border security, call it whatever you want, I begrudgingly respect his hardball tactics. If only my president, Obama, had the same fight in him when he was president. I watched this guy snooze through seven years of his presidency and get rolled by the most non-charismatic man imaginable, Mitch McConnel. Seven wasted years when so much could have been accomplished.
4
What is DACA? Do all 87 percent have the same definition?
Is it a program to prevent the deportation of school kids? Is it a program that prevents the deportation of 30 year olds?
Does it grant citizenship? Does it not grant citizenship?
According to the DREAMERS it is 'all of us or none of us.' Is that what people support?
What does the Democratic Party consider DACA to be? It was 690,000 kids not that long ago. Then it turned into 800,000. Trump offered 1,800,000. Not enough.
The DREAMERs say 15-20 million- or else they are going to disrupt everything. Do 87 percent support that?
2
What, exactly, is the Democratic policy here?
They claimed they wanted to protect 800,000 Dreamers- young kids with bright futures. Trump offers them 1.8 million. They pout. They call people racists.
So what number is acceptable to the Democratic Party?
I can only assume that they want to grant amnesty, and citizenship, to every single person here illegally or under any kind of temporary program. So many tens of millions.
But even that is not enough. They are already talking about all the future immigrants and their rights.
I cannot support the Democratic position on immigration. All of our problems become more difficult with more people. The environment is being destroyed- we are going to be faced with floods of people in the near future- all escaping the intense poverty that comes with over-population and environmental degradation.
We must reform and streamline our deportation processes. We must automate our economy so we are not reliant upon immigrant labor. We must raise wages, and accept higher prices, in certain industries as citizens start going back to work in entire industries. We must prosecute and incarcerate employers who hire illegal labor. We should amend the Constitution to end birth-right citizenship.
And we must have clear policies that identify and remove illegal immigrants quickly so we do not go through this needless drama every decade.
15
Trump is at a HUGE disadvantage.
He is used to dealing with sane, rational people.
4
Trump has mastered the political equivalent of the "rope-a-dope," and we, his critics and victims have fallen for it....over and over again. He's hard to corner and impossible to shame so traditional methods just don't work. The immigration issue is difficult. He baits the Democrats into committing too much, then offers something too tempting to ignore, impossible to accept, and fodder for his supporters to blast the left.
I'm hopeful that Mueller has hard, documented evidence of Russian sympathizers working with and for Trump ... if there is any. If the evidence isn't hard, then Trump will exploit it and damage the supporters of immigration, the environment, and health care for all.
1
The GOP wants a DACA deal they can
have it right now. They run the show. So do it. If they can't, don't blame D's. Look in the mirror.
1
Why is a North Carolina congressman admonishing a congressman from the Dakotas as being far from the immigration debate in a non border state? Last i checked NC was quite far from the "Southern Wall". Take a seat Mr. Meadows and focus on tainted water.
I’m an immigrant myself, from Australia. Australia has a number of nativist/racist issues and one of the many things I loved about the USA is that we have a policy based on increasing ethnic diversity. It was such an amazing attitude, coming from Australia. I’ll be very sad if it is the cost of getting a deal for the dreamers.
1
There is so much spin to this latest rant from Trump that it is difficult to know where to begin. First, I would hardly accuse "opposition leaders" of talking "a good game" because they cared more about politics. Look into the mirror, Mr. Trump. And they "don't produce"? This president's definition of producing is bigotry, simply put, nothing less.
The second point is that to date this Democratic Party is aligning itself with morality, a foreign concept to Mr. Trump. These are innocent children, brought here by their parents. The issue is not that their father and mother were "illegal", rather it is about young adults who have proven themselves to be good, productive, and aspirational individuals.
The final and perhaps most unconscionable point is that this man in the White House is exploiting the vulnerable, actually the helpless in this case. He has stooped even further into his bottomless pit of perdition by using these Dreamers as if they are a game of checkers...I'll move here, but you HAVE to move there, if you don't want to be scooped up. But ultimately his goal is to win, to be "kinged." Let us hope, however, that DACA as it is meant to be is the victor. But we have to help.
1
Wanna make a deal? 1) DACA plan for wall if Mexico pays and Mexican citizens granted same tourist and business travel privileges as Canadian citizens (180 days no visa) 2) yes to limiting chain migration, 3) no to ending visa lottery program. I'm neither a Rep or Dem, jusy a concerned citizen.
1
Republicans who oppose the DACA deal cannot do simple math. Giving up 2 million slots now is a trifle compared to the tens of millions of immigrants that will cut in the future. I mean, if one immigrant can not longer bring parents and siblings that will quickly cut future numbers by at least half.
Classic Trump, blaming Democrats for his decision to end an Obama program. The man is allergic to what grown-ups refer to as responsibility.
As the brouhaha over the government shutdown showed, Trump isn't interested in helping the Dreamers.
The March 5th deadline is a typical shady real estate developer's promise that is worth absolutely nothing. Democrats would do well to ignore this bit of fake leverage.
I'm afraid it will take a rejuvenated sanctuary movement to protect some of the Dreamers. The Democratic minority is in no position to force Trump's hand.
The Dems should not approve ANY "deal" which includes funding for Trump's Wall ! If Congress wants action on DACA let them do it with a single subject, clean bill. Without any wall money...........
Trump's overall strategy has been formulated in the Kremlin and he is slavishl in following through: undermine the rule of law from the White House by the most intransigent obstructionism, as if it were Putin drawing the proverbial line. Divide the already pathetically obsolete two-party system further and polarize the two sides until they ultimately cause a huge social and political explosion. Then Trump's buddies in Russia can move in and impose the dictatorship they have promised the Don in exchange for his puerile soul...
1
Democrats should start any business with WH with a look at Trump's approval ratings. His beloved base is also his undoing.
Trump, Ryan, Kelly, McConnell, the joke of a Cabinet and the wackadoos of the Freedom Caucus have 10 more months to pursue their vision of American carnage and then the midterms will bring a reset .
Every day is part of that countdown. Court proceedings, delay tactics, recesses, shutdowns etc: anything and everything serves to minimize the damage and keep the clock running.
Most importantly however , Mueller has the goods.
Americans , and the world , will be stunned at the breadth and depth of Trump and GOP corruption. Not even invoking the sleezy Clinton's will protect them. Also the world will hopefully and finally recognize Putin for the menace that he is.
1
30 foot wall $25 billion...40 foot ladder (used) $50....seems like a great waste of tax dollars. SAD!
Could the DEMOCRATS PLEASE REMIND EVERYONE THAT TRUMP REPEALED THE DACA ACT FOR NO REASON. It will become their problem, if they continue allowing the worst president in modern times, steal the narrative.
Bulk up a bill with Special Counsel protection, some other things for the sick and needy, and send it so the Republicans reject it.
They MUST take hold of the DACA narrative now!!
1
Trump has tapped into something that the average American has known for years. There is an endless supply of people who want to come to a finite country (the u.s.). At some point reality has to dawn on even the most die hard liberal. We cannot continue to take everyone in who wants to come here. Do we need to come to some accommodation with the millions we have allowed to stay here who shouldn't have? Yes, but that needs to include a pinching off of the spigot and not just another amnesty and vague promises to someday do something. China is about our size and latitude. That is our future if we don't come to grips with the numbers. Yes, help people in their home countries, but there is nothing to be gained from moving up from the third most populous country on earth. It's not the 19th century. Our country and its laws on almost everything have changed since we had 60 million people, so must our immigration laws and vision of the future. Calling anyone who disagree a "xenphobe and racist" or rediculously saying "we are a country of immigrants, so we can't deny anybody entry" is just name calling and flawed logic (we didn't have speed limits or pollution controls in the past- should we get rid of those as well?). Time to debate what we want the future to look like, based on the numbers, not feelings.
74
It gets so tiresome trying to debate people who are somehow think they are being overwhelmed by a tide of immigrants, especially those who live in places where there are few immigrants. There are already controls in place, the other numbers we are talking about are relatively minuscule in a nation of more than 300 million, and there are solutions to further control things without unduly targeting people who have been productive, tax-paying residents. And I seriously doubt any immigrant is taking away your job. You have let yourself be misinformed by a racist = sorry, but he is, look at the evidence on tape --president and right-wing media.
We need to vote out the Republican majority in Congress. It is good to see more and more of the House and Senate Republicans leaving, hopefully after next November we can regain some sanity about this, and stop Trump in his destructive tracks.
In reality this is supposed to be about 800,000 kids who are already here. A clean bill on that wouldn't stop the duscussion. It would just make it possible.
1
When will this moron awaken to the fact that his wall would be a colossal waste of money.
Unless the plan is to categorically deny Mexicans and Latin Americans travel visas to the US, they will be able to simply buy a airplane ticket and fly over any wall that Trump builds - thus rendering the wall as bad an investment as the two additional casinos that he insisted on building in Atlantic City.
And this wall will do nothing to stop would-be squatters from elsewhere across the globe from the doing the same.
But let's just blow $25 billion dollars on a humongous extension of Trump's ego - just so he can keep one of his witless promises to his base.
There are many Democrats and independents uncomfortable with our current lax approach to immigration enforcement. There is a humane deal to be made - but that deal cannot be made so long as racists and bigots are calling the shots on the conservative side, and insisting on solutions that will do little to fix a complicated, hemispheric problem.
14
Maintaining all the illegals, includes this cleverly named group "Dreamers", costs us a lot more and will only grow. These are the facts, not the alternate reality of the left.
6
I'm down to have open borders for awhile just to see how America deals with having a border with a country whose prevailing wage is 5 times less than in America's. I don't think we are going to be going back to some 1950s situation.
I know what I would do if I lived in Mexico today. I would run as fast as I could to America. I have a feeling that if we had open borders, millions and millions of people would run as fast as they could to America.
Now liberals love to argue that millions of immigrants with no skills is actually great because it raises GDP. GDP means nothing in today's hyper unequal economy. Of course educated elite liberals will keep getting cheap nannys and food, but I wonder what the effect will be on the 70% of America without a college degree.
If there is a job with only 2 applicants, the worker has leverage to get benefits, and companies are forced to raise wages to attract workers. If suddenly that same job has 15 applicants, does that worker have any leverage? Does the company have any incentive to increase offered wages or benefits? I think not. In fact, I think it would have the exact opposite effect. However. because they hired cheaper labor the elite business owners will make more profits, which will translate into higher GDP on average, or at least to a certain point.
17
Open borders might actually work if there were no people hiring illegal immigrants. Conservatives oppose all legislation to punish those who knowingly hire these people. This is the historical record.
1
The US has always sought to lure more people than it really needs to hold down wage costs for its plutocracy.
1
A recent article by Dean Obeidallah in the Daily Beast narrates the story of most immigrant families so accurately.
I hope every American reads this article:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/chain-migration-has-helped-millions-of-str...
You know how unions capitulated to a two-tier system for their members, that's this immigration scheme. The DACA recipients/Dreamers get grandfathered in but the next generation of dreamers get the short end.
And whoever believes that only high-skilled immigrants can benefit our country, obviously hasn't enjoyed Edible Arrangements. Plus, it's nice for Barron Trump to grow up knowing his maternal grandparents and aunt even though it's unclear, what if any special work skills they have or contributions they can make to America, nevertheless, kids deserve to be surrounded by a loving extended family.
But I guess if the president's willing to send his in-laws back, it might be a reasonable deal.
2
"And whoever believes that only high-skilled immigrants can benefit our country, obviously hasn't enjoyed Edible Arrangements."
This single, rather dubious, assertion, from a Brooklynite, absolutely crystallizes the entire issue. Well done.
2
The times itself has reported that labor is ~10% of the cost of fruits and vegetables. Exploiting people to save a tiny fraction of the cost of produce is despicable and unnecessary. People in ANY job in this country should make a living wage and have a safe work place. Double their wages, it will have a negligible effect on the cost of food. I'm always astonished that the left uses the arguement that exploiting these workers is somehow beneficial. I guess their lofty values end at the broccoli aisle.
3
Agree Al - it's amazing that a customer is able to purchase a "fair trade" pineapple or cocoa that originates outside of the U.S. (and I am aware that the "fair trade" aspect only applies to the farmer being adequately compensated for the item, and not the labor conditions of the workers), but somehow we should accept that produce grown and harvested within the U.S. is done by illegal immigrant labor in substandard working conditions.
3
it makes absolutely no sense for dems to give trump a "win" on daca in a year they're going to be fighting to retake control of the house. this is the political reality. they should force trump to extend the march 5 daca deadline by calling his bluff that deportations will begin then.
maybe a "skinny" deal could get done that codified obama's original order but didn't resolve citizenship or resident status. yes kicking the can down the road.
Clearly Trump broke DACA to use it as a bargaining chip. He gets everything he wants in exchange for DACA. Trump has said he has no problems with DACA to the fierce criticism of his base. He says he will take the heat on DACA. But the only price he'll pay is to get everything he wants.
So Trump now says Democrats won't make a deal on DACA and it is the fault of Democrats. He knows Democrats will no longer hold up budget for DACA, as that doesn't play out well in the conservative states that Democrats will win. Trump pays no political price if DACA recipients are deported.
I don't see any deal happening with DACA. I don't see Democrats caving on this. Democrats care about DACA but do they throw every other immigrant under the bus for DACA? Democrats can paint images of DACA recipients having to quit jobs, and being sent to detention ad Trump's fault, and with his megaphone he had quickly it as their fault.
Democrats are better off to stand firm on Social Security and Medicare funding, and let Republicans take the fall on DACA. The bipartisan bill on immigration should be passed, and dare Trump to veto it. I think the House will not let it get that far, but let them defend their actions at midterm, with their gerrymandered constituencies.
1
People are less interested in immigration then we are led to believe. We are interested in saving democracy. social security, stopping privatization of infrastructure, privatization of schools, to name a few.
12
Like the Democrats, I favor immigration and the Trump plan is hardly to my liking. But the fact is that the Republicans are the people in power and have made a proposal that takes some Democratic wishes into account and avoids destroying the lives of the DACA folks and a million others. Yes, it dramatically restricts future immigration; perhaps if and when the Democrats are in power they can revisit that issue. But if the Democrats refuse to accept compromise and rely on the same tantrum tactics the Republicans used when they were in the minority, the Democrats will not regain power. . . . nor should they.
6
Democrats and progressives continue to forget how and why Trump was elected.
His focus on the problems associated with illegal immigration was central to his success.
Thinking we can allow amnesty of millions once again, without real immigration reform and enhanced enforcement (see 1986) is a losing political strategy.
13
Oh. I thought it was our outmoded electoral system that allowed the person with fewer votes to win.
1
Obama ran around Congress using an executive order to achieve his policy objective, and Trump can do the same.
The large numbers of children brought illegally into the US is testament to the failure of both Republican and Democrat governments in dealing with ILLEGAL immigration. The word, ILLEGAL, is one Democrats do not want to hear.
The White House wants a quid pro quo agreement. The Republicans should produce sensible options to halt ILLEGAL immigration, and the Democrats should accept these. ILLEGAL immigration has been a big issue in the US for a long time and, IMHO, is one of the reasons Trump had so much support. Democrats should LISTEN to the electorate and make a good that addresses the electorate's concerns. (Admittedly, though, a wall may not be the most effective remedy).
5
Trump created this crisis when he announced that he was ending the DACA program. Maybe he did it because he wanted to use Dreamers as a bargaining chip. Maybe he did it because he hoped all along to deport the young immigrants he professes to "love." Maybe it was a combination.
I got to know Dreamers when I helped them fill out renewal applications last Fall. They are students or workers (including teachers and nurses), with no criminal record, some with spouses and children who are U.S. citizens. Some are even veterans who served in the military under the MAVNI (Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest) program. When the issue of renewals came up, some of us questioned whether filling out applications might put a target on the applicants’ backs since it required them to provide current information that would just make it easier for the government to find and deport them. The Dreamers were more hopeful and trusting than I was. Now their fate is the hands of a cruel, capricious man who wants to call all the shots. I don’t know what the political solution is, but Democrats are not to blame.
2
I find it troubling that DACA teachers, nurses and workers need your help to fill out forms.
2
Democrats: your hand is weak right now. You need to win elections; there is no other way.
Take the deal to protect the Dreamers, then overwhelmingly retake Congress in the Fall. In 2019, enact rational immigration legislation, and then tear down this wall, assuming any of it got built by then. The End.
Or at least a good start to a new beginning.
3
Lets get the record straight.
This so called DACA fix has been on the congressional calendar since 2001, yes, 17 plus years back. Senators Durbin and Hatch introduced it - a very bipartisan effort.
Despite support from 43rd - a Republican - it never advanced.
Finally, in 2013 it got a vote when 44th - a Democrat was in power.
It failed.
And so begat DACA.
Blame goes around both ways.
America is served best when Congress and the Executives are aligned on a public policy. Congress debates, gauging presidential response - after all he can veto it.
The problem with the shutdown was the Democrats demanded a pre debated conclusion on DACA - which any self respected elected to Congress would resist.
With all this heat, the POTUS entered the debate when he could have just stood by - like in the repeal effort.
We know from tv coverage if we prefer had a POTUS who loves to televise his John Hancock'ing - it is this man.
So, he sure is ready to sign a compromise bill - which he can then claim as the "most historic, most compassionate, no POTUS before" etc. You get the picture.
So, debate on the floors of both houses is a must to advance this long languishing measure.
3
The dreamers deserve to stay, not reasonable to force them back.
Family based immigration can be tightened for a few years to include only immediate family members. (Children, parents, grandparents).
Lottery system can be scaled back for s few years. When was the term “lottery” meant to imply a sure thing?
Companies should be required to prove they cannot hire US citizens before they are issued H1-B visas. Try immigrating to Canada
The Wall, give in on this. By the time it gets off the ground Trump will be out of office and it can be stopped. It’s just a symbol of government wasting taxpayer dollars. Even with the wall, they will cross. You can’t stop people wanting a better life for themselves and families.
4
As a progressive, I am totally for the Wall. 100% FOR the Wall. As long as, as Trump promised, Mexico pays for it. No American money. Not one cent.
So I am having another cognitive disconnect. Trump claims that the Democrats will have to get on board to get DACA resolved, or we will just have to elect more Republicans in the midterms to get it done.
The Republicans have a majority in both Houses and the Presidency, yes? And the Supreme Court. So how will electing more of them get something done that they cannot already get done?
And how will electing more of the party that has stalled the issue for most of a decade resolve the issue?
But for sure, cognitive dissonance is a feature (not a bug) of this administration. Orwell would be impressed.
3
1. The "innocent" DACA children stay, on the condition that their law-breaking parents leave and may never return to America again.
2. E-verify immediately, for every job including home domestic labor. Failure to E-verify means escalating fines leading to closure of the business or serious tax penalty.
3. Make legal immigration status mandatory for enrolling children in school, renting a hotel room or apartment, and getting medical care beyond emergency stabilization.
4. National ID card, like in France. Somehow their democracy is surviving with one.
5. Reduce but don't eliminate the categories of chain migration; reduce but don't eliminate the diversity lottery by limiting it only to those nations certified as friendly to the United States, which means voting with us on key issues at the UN, sharing intelligence, etc. (Why we would offer diversity lottery visas to Iran is beyond comprehension, but we do).
We need nothing else.
3
The main argument if favor of legal status for the Dreamers is that supposedly "they were brought here through no fault of their own".
Then whose fault was it?
Their parents' fault, of course.
So, whatever legal status is granted the Dreamers, it ought to be one that can never lead to a means for their parents to get any kind of legal status.
Since current immigration law allows all citizens who are at least 21 years old to sponsor their parents, either the legal status for Dreamers must never become citizenship (no "path to citizenship") or the immigration law must be changed to prevent citizens from sponsoring their parents for legal status. Since in general, any discrimination among citizens could be undermined with litigation on "equal protection" grounds, that means the immigration law must be changed -- now, as part of the deal -- so that all citizens (not merely Dreamer citizens) no longer can sponsor their parents.
If that the immigration law is not changed in that way, then the legal status dispensed to Dreamers must never become citizenship at any time.
As for the Wall and other border security measures, the Dems have always claimed that they are in favor of "border security", but when it comes time to actually put concrete measures into effect, they have always dodged and weaved and never become halfway serious. As for cost, the Dems have never been know to be especially cost conscious about anything else. Why now all the solicitous sententiousness about cost?
8
"Mr. Trump complained that Democrats were unwilling to budge and would rather see him fail than make progress on immigration or other issues that would benefit the country." I agree. President Trump has offered the Democrats a solution to the DACA debacle but they have only pushed back. The Democrats see DACA as their issue; they want to be the champions for the solution. But they do not have a solution, nor they have a solution for the larger immigration problem, which they do not see as a problem. They prefer an open unrestricted border, which means a greater constituency for them. The words engraved on the Statue of Liberty apply to another era, not to the present, when within the "huddled masses" may lurk terrorists and others wishing to do America harm, a fact that has been demonstrated over and over, as in the murder of Ms. Steinle in San Francisco, the Uzbekistani diversity visa lottery winner, who sped down the bike path in New York City, and the brutal murder of the schoolgirls on Long Island by MS-13. Citizenship for the DACA recipients must come in exchange for meaningful immigration reform to stop the flow of immigrants who intend not to take advantage of the opportunities offered by life in America but rather to bring it down. I support the President. I support Trump. Thank you.
6
Trump has demonstrated over and over that his words are worthless.
Dems have an opportunity right now to be the "adults in the room", by demonstrating a willingness to compromise. Trump needs his wall. His base demands a wall. Use that to our advantage, by getting a better immigration policy in exchange. Not only protecting Dreamers, but let's expand the number of legal immigrants. Our tech companies need these people. Our farmers need these people. Our construction companies need these people. Most Americans know this.
If Dems appear to be too focused on preventing a "Trump win", Shumer's concession on the gov't shutdown will truly be a huge gift to GOP, instead of a wise positioning tactic.
2
Trump keeps saying he wants "merit-based immigration", like Canada.
But does he not realize that Canada also has "family class" immigration, for sponsoring certain relatives, and "humanitarian" immigration, for refugees? And that Canada takes in more immigrants than the US does (per capita)? Going to a merit-based system just affects preferences, it does necessarily not mean you slash immigration numbers.
25
Canada with 1/10th of the population, takes roughly the same number of refugees as the United States.
Sweden, with about 1/30th of the population also takes about as many refugees as the USA. Actually in 2015 it took much more, about 160000.
So much for "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."
I guess it is "Give us your highly educated white Scandinavians yearning to live in a land filled with guns and lacking a modern social system."
1
I'll parse words; saying "...Canada takes more immigrates..." sounds as North is referring to legal immigration that is a relatively addressable political issue. Many people are more concerned about illegal aliens and the possible chain immigration from legalizing them.
4
And as for legal immigration Canada takes 1/3rd of US numbers with 1/10th of the population, so about 3 times as much immigration on a per capita basis.
The US basically does not want to accept legal immigrants in any form and then wonders why it gets so many illegal ones.
If Trump won't stop his denigration and chiding of Dems on everything with his continuing insults, he deserves to swing in the air for awhile. As President, it's up to him to keep the government running and funded. Let him come up with the GOP votes in the House and the Senate. It's his watch, not that of Pelosi and Schumer.
With the GOP "Tax Reform" he has indebted 99% of us to fund his $1.5 trillion deficit, while his 1% derives billions of dollars in tax cuts and personal loopholes. In a couple of years our phantom tax benefits will evaporate, and our taxes will go up to fund Trump's and his buddies' subsidies.
His demand that Dems mortgage everything he wants to him, is untenable and unreasonable.
His March 5 deadline for DACA was his doing. He can extend his order. If he does not, he will be responsible for his arbitrary actions. And we will hold him to it.
Trump is the most corrupt President we have had since Nixon. This is not his reality show.
44
Not willing to solve the immigration issue, specially relating to the young undocumented immigrants,Trump is always passing the buck to the opposition Democrats while playing the partisan witch hunting game in a poor taste.
22
Republican position on immigration is full of contradictions. On one hand they are talking about merit based immigration system but at the same time are opposed to H1b visas ( which in a way is a merit based visa for highly skilled workers). If they want highly skilled educated immigrants then why are they against H1b visas? They want to end lottery visas that benefit many African countries but don't want to end so called green card give aways to wealthy people who can get their way under guise of investment visas ( the kind of scheme Jerad Khusners business was running). Similarly they want to reduce the legal immigration en-bloc and make it harder for families of naturalized citizens to come here. At the same time they expect that highly skilled workers around the world particularly from white European countries will stand in long lines to get US visas and green cards. They talk about family values but are against family reunification. Many of them dot even understand that family reunification is an extremely slow process which many a times takes 2 or more decades for an immigrant to bring his family over here. This extremely slow process of reunification has nothing to do with low skilled job loss. Republicans have bought the bigoted view of ill informed racist elements in their party. The good old party of Lincon seriously needs a new direction
39
Republicans don't want an immigration program. They want campaign issues, optics for campaign ads.
With merit based immigration we should have little need for the so-called skilled worker visas, H1b, L1 and B1. They are badly abused and little audited. And they should not be a path to a green card.
2
Why is is always about "The Deal" and "Winning"? He is a vain man but he is also President of us (we the people).
7
Such a great vanity based on so little talent or accomplishment!
1
Face it....Trump is brilliant!
Dems have the same attitude towards making a deal with Trump as the Palestinians with Israel. Both of them think they cannot compromise with an evil. What they do not think, is that they both are not in condition to negotiate too much, because both of them have lost. So not willing to recognize reality, they help to maintain a status quo which is more negative for them then for Trump or Israel.
To me this is immaturity.
16
Perhaps, its because they are dealing with a known liar who changes positions on a dime & expresses contradictory statements that will benefit potentially wealthy immigrants over those from poorer countries.
Be patient! A new day is dawning in just 280 days.
Ok so let the Republicans fashion an immigration plan and sell it to all Americans.
The Democrats should call Mr Trump's bluff and do the DACA deal for a wall paid for by MEXICO! He is on tape saying " I promise you Mexico will pay for it" He wrote The Art of The Deal ....let's see him make a deal!
26
Absolutely...Don the Con promised a wall paid for by Mexico. Dems must hold him to it. There must be NO path to have the US Treasury pay for it. $25Billion (and that's an estimate) is a ridiculous waste of money needed for job training and healthcare.
I hope the Democrats don't back down on this, thus far they have shown little guts and backbone.
23
While it would be nice and taking the high ground to hold true to their DACA demands, the Democrats have little bargaining power. And the congressional Republicans know it. trump may not, but he has been told to hold for a deal the TP/GOP wants, while blaming the Democrats if DACA, and other immigration issues get buried or sidelined. The only actual leverage the Democrats have is to shut down the government in some upcoming budget vote. While I support the Democrats position with DACA (when else are children held accountable and punished for the actions taken by their parents?), there is no way for them to force the Republicans to accept or vote for a clean DACA bill. What, exactly, would you have the Dems do to "not back down"?
1
So much for reaching across the aisle. As we all well know, he is incapable of compromise.
22
So more than doubling the number of illegal immigrants legalized to 1.8 million, and giving them a path to citizenship is not a compromise?
3
It's a poison pill; Save the Dreamers while forever altering the immigration system.
And remember, he may promise to save the Dreamers and toss that promise away on whim.
Don't deal with Trump.
His taint is indelible.
He's already burned the Ds on this twice.
33
Can we all PLEASE remember that Trump CAUSED this crisis in the first place? If he hadn't announced his end to DACA on March 5th, we wouldn't be here. Period.
62
Nope. Obama did with his extra judicial measures. Trump has offered a path forward but dems won't take yes for an answer... They won't compromise until the US has completely open borders. Dems use these kids in their cynical game. If they really cared about DACA kids, they would take the deal and live to fight another day.
5
President Obama said 22 times that he did not have the authority to do DACA but did it anyway leaving 800,000 in limbo. Mr. Trump ended the unlawful DACA and is making congress actually do their jobs and make these kids legal instead of kicking the can down the road like the previous president.
5
A deft political move undoubtedly pushed by Ryan and McConnell. The Dems have no place to go to get the TP/GOP to vote for a clean DACA bill as long as they are in the minority. So now the ONLY recourse the Democrats have is to either shut the government down (not vote for a budget) or take a "compromise", again, crafted by the TP/GOP leadership that contains many things the Democrats hate and find counter productive (the wall). So now we have to go forward.....to what?
2
The wall (sigh). When Mexico is willing to pay for it, as the great deal maker DT insisted would happen, I will support it. Otherwise it's a flagrant waste of money, and would be much better spent on a hundred other good things - let's consider it a down payment on fixing our aging infrastructure.
The saddest thing is that DT wants to be the greatest president ever, and doesn't realize that he could have moved in that direction if only he had "bipartisanship" as his mantra. It would have been easy for him, being neither a Democrat and a Republican in name only. He's really beholding to no party. What a waste of an opportunity.
11
Yes Yes Yes...With any astuteness DT might've tacked left and charmed the nation...He has so blown it by irrational intransigence based wholly upon ...what exactly?
1
The problem with that scenario is that Trump is beholden to his supporters and his supporters are driven only by hate and greed. DT has played into their hate by painting immigrants as the bogeymen to blame for his supporters failed lives.
1
Calling all democrats. Stop stooping.
Negotiate this budget deal to win!
Republicans want low wage migrants, but posture as if they are doing you a big favor by agreeing to a path for citizenship. Swing voters could care less, but OK.
At least call Trump's bluff.
Demand that the 1.8 million migrants Trump claims to "love" get the right to vote immediately.
And repeal tax cuts for millionaires and send it to middle class wage earners.
Get bodacious. Show some hair.
Standing on this kind of principle gets something u lack.
Votes.
11
What choice do the democrats have?
Let's talk about what might happen on March 5 if our government shut down.
- Will the DACA people lose patience and take to the streets supporting Trump's deal?
- Will the democrats risk the political capital to defend the illegal aliens over American citizens?
- Will Trump have the courage to deport the DACA people, however bad it looks on TV?
- Will the public opinion shift towards a landslide loss for the democrats in the mid-term?
Each side is pressing their ante. But President Trump holds the Ace.
16
Is Mr Meadows (of North Carolina) aware that El Paso TX is father from North Carolina than it is from South Dakota? So perhaps before he criticizes a proposal from a "state too far away" he should bust out his high school US Geography text or google maps. Or perhaps he should consider that citizens of the United States have the same rights regardless of what state they live in and how far it is from any border, including the perimeter of the US Capitol Building.
5
Dems should offer $40 billion for Trump' s Republican Wall of Shame in exchange for raising the income tax rate to 90 percent on any income (earned and unearned) over $1 million with no exceptions! And granting immediate citizenship to ALL Dreamers and residency for life for every other undocumented immigrant. And oh yes, Guantanamo closed by March 1, 2017, with reparations paid to ALL uncharged and unconvicted inmates. Time to trump Trump.
9
Under no circumstances should Democrats touch levels of legal immigration, nor should they constrain current laws that unify families --families such as Mr. Trump's grandfather's (who, as a matter of fact knew little English and would not classify under any of his proposed skill-based immigration schemes).
Americans do not negotiate with hostage takers. Mr. Trump took DACA as a hostage, without any need --other than to use real people as pawns. Mr. Trump is morally responsible for his actions. No lifeline nor excuse should be provided by Democrats --and more so because the future of the Democratic party is based on standing high for principle, and in defending legal immigration families whose dreams have always based on family reunification.
12
Apparently Americans do negotiate with hostage takers. Let's not forget Beau Bergdahl.
2
Democrats cannot afford to be the "party of illegal aliens" in November. There is just too much at stake. I urge Democratic leadership to take Trump's deal now, so we can get immigration out of the way. Its bad enough that republicans have a strong economy to run on.
22
Mark Meadows should look at a map. North Dakota is closer to the border than North Carolina. While he's at it he should listen carefully to Sen. Thune.
4
Trump created the problem with the stroke of a pen. He can solve it the same way. He'd rather blame others. No getting around it: Trump owns this one. An epic fail for the GOP, but mostly for Trump.
9
Obama created this mess with an unconstitutional executive action he himself said he had no authority to implement. Why do you think DAPA was suspended?
1
Trump style negotiation is to keep taking away everything and then asking asking for a compromise in the middle. Then, the middle becomes his original starting point.
This isn't negotiation, it's extortion. It's what dictators do. Set pre-conditions to what they were originally, then negotiate. Trump is successfully hanging the picture of Democrats being more concerned about undocumented/illegal aliens than US citizens. Stop taking the bait!
9
Okay, a Clean DACA bill, No wall and a bill to protect the Special Counsel.
12
I loved and admired Trumps method of dealing with the Democrats on DACA. It's definitely the right thing to do and is much more considerate and negotiable than was the Democrats ACS deal. The Democrats need to learn to come to the table and make a deal in a timely manner or the deal changes. Plain and simple. What Trump did was offer an utterly unmistakable advance in the deal on DACA when he mentioned path to citizenship and amnesty. Never before heard of from republicans and yes of course he wants something in return. Why in the world would he not demand something in return.
20
There were two BIPARTISAN bills that Trump rejected, one with a white supremacist rant.
Democrats don't want solutions. Once a problem is solved then they can't use it to divide and conquer. Fixing things is not good for Democratic politics. If they believe that they can demand amnesty for the "Dreamers" without giving anything in return, then they are fooling themselves and will lose big in 2018.
21
Only Russians and Putin are exempt from Trump’s slanders, insults and exploitation. Trump’s white voters will find out how little Trump cares about them but to be fodder in his war on democracy.
8
GOP are traitors to American values, values they used to protect, now they bow to Trump and corporate tax cuts while selling out the middle class. They bow to cheaters and low moral leaders, they have no dignity and have permanently attached their trails to comrade trump. When he is indicted and impeached, it will be a glories day to run GOP noses in the mess they made on the carpet. LOOKING FORWARD TO SAYING " I told you so".
7
Are people who violate US immigration laws "cheaters"?
Let me see if I understand the "deal" Trump wants. Usually a deal means you give something to get something. Trump says he wants to let the Dreamers stay, as do they Democrats. That should be a done deal as there is no dispute. But the Democrats have to give him a border wall, harsh deportation, and an end to family reunification, and the lottery, all of which they oppose, and all of which would end immigration as we know it. In return, Trump gives....? Nothing, since he says he is for DACA anyway.
This is a deal? It's like I want pepperoni on our pizza and you want pepperoni. But to get a pepperoni pizza which we both want, I have to buy you cake as extra, and you get as extra....nothing.
What is wrong with this picture.
5
The dems are not at the table. Trump is correct when he says the dems would rather see him fail than help the country and the dreamers. The american public is fed up with congress and their stupid positions. The dems think they can pick up seats in 2018 but what will happen if they stay the course of resist and obstruction they will find more republicans in congress. Maybe even more republican seats in the senate. I am a moderate independent and see the democrat leadership as traitors. I would like to see bipartisan passage of solutions for the American public. It is obvious to the voters that Trump is trying to make progress on all fronts and the dems are doing everything they can to obstruct anything that they can't take credit for.
15
As long as there is a line in the bill that requires all offspring of immigrants whose last name was Drumpf and immigrated to the US from Germany between 1900 and 1940 be returned to their native country forthwith, I think the Democrats should agree.
1
How, exactly how do a tweet and a speech constitute pressure? How, exactly how do these methods of communication constitute pressure on Democrats?
19
Hmmm. Democrats want recognition of those who registered for DACA. But, if you didn't register (but could have), Dems afford you no more status than someone who just flew into JFK and overstayed their visa.
In the meantime, if I was born here, am a minority, and have no skills or experience, getting s job is no picnic. Why would I want more unskilled aliens, legal or illegal, to compete against for the unskilled jobs available? Aren't our own kids born here dreamers as well?
56
I have read that farmers in the south are having trouble finding pickers and farmers in the north can't find people to milk cows unless they hire undocumented workers. The meat rendering plants also have trouble finding workers. Trump is on the record as saying people should move to where the jobs are. Do any of these opportunities appeal to you?
The meat rendering plants used to pay a hard won union wage with benefits. The plants, with a wink and nod from our government, relocated to the boondocks, broke the unions, and hired illegal labor at a fraction of the wage and no benefits. Restore those wages to what they were, and i suspect those jobs would fill rather more quickly.
We used to have a bracrero program for seasonal agricultural labor. No more. But what isn't on is importing serf labor with no oversight or protection.
1
Look at the research on jobs, employment, and immigration, legal and otherwise and the impact on the US economy. It’s a net positive. No one individual is taking your job(s). If you’re going to ignore research and make comments based on your feelings, try the comments section on Fox News.
Here's the only good argument against family-based (chain) migration so far:
If there had been no family-based migration, we wouldn't be stuck with anti-immigrant hard-liners like Tucker Carlson and Dan Scavino
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/18/donald-trump-immigrat...?
(On the other hand, of course, most of us wouldn't be here either...)
26
You are correct. The book by David Fischer called Albion's Seed names the four groups of immigrants from the British isles into the American colonies. By far the largest group were from the border counties of Scotland and England and it was largely those people and their descendants who crossed the Appalachian mountains and settled the rest of America, called by us the Scotch Irish. One of the characteristics of that group of settlers is that they came over in whole families, the earliest example of what the Right or actually the anti immigrant groups now call chain migration. One might actually believe on the other hand that whole families would be more stable and call it that way, not chain migration.
1
A suggestion for Democrats: Negotiate either a little less money for the wall or spread the money to more effective technological solutions; accept significant restrictions on sponsored immigration (the term "chain" is patently offensive and misleading); limit the numbers entering via lottery. Then take the deal. Not only will this protect those morally entitled to protection. You get immigration off the radar--a no win issue given the public mood ginned up by Trump--thereby improving your party's position leading into November. And assuming you make the gains you seek in the midterms, you can reshape immigration law to reflect true American values instead of nativist preferences.
53
I hate to break it to you but the polling suggests Trump's proposal each of the 4 pillars taken individually is exactly what Americans want.
It's not a question of values. No country owes citizens of other countries anything. DACA is different but the moral argument for DACA doesn't apply to chain migration or the VISA lottery.
3
The terms, Dreamer, undocumented, 'clean' DACA are way more offensive than the truth telling chain migration. The said terms are all downplaying the unlawful act. 'clean' says reward illegal alien parents and their illegal alien children without enforcing immigration laws, DREAM is a bill Democrats came up with to deceive Americans, undocumented is a great insult to legal immigrants.
Our ku kux klutz tells us he's in favor of allowing the dreamers (or whatever he chooses to call them) to remain in the U.S. and to gain citizenship status but is unwilling to act on their behalf unless he also gets his Great Wall of Donald at public expense along with a few other items on his anti-immigrant shopping list. If he agrees that the dreamers should be legalized why attach conditions of any sort to that premise? Let their parents stay, as well, along with the other undocumented aliens who've been here for decades- contributing to the economy, committing no violent crimes and performing manual labor at lower-than-minimum wages that native-born citizens wouldn't accept- and then we can talk about immigration policy for the future.
60
You can afford more amnesty for those already here if you impose measures designed to keep their numbers from growing. With an uncontrolled border, the more liberal the amnesty program, the more it attracts additional undocumented entrants.
Would you give amnesty to those who got into a movie theater without paying, without also having a more secure entrance to the theater? Or do you prefer an entire theater filled with non paying "customers"?
11
@RM: Agreed. I'm in favor of ending the lottery and slowing down other forms of immigration so long as they're applied fairly and across the board, not favoring majority-Caucasian countries over those in the developing world.
4
For the simple reason that we don't have to revisit this problem a decade or two from now, when "new dreamers" grow up try to join the work-force and want to be legalized. We fix the problem now and fix it once and for all.
2
If Trump follows his usual form he'll refuse to sign anything anyway. He'll find some ridiculous reason and then blame everyone but himself for the failure. Ironically this is an area where there is much more to agree on than disagree. We should not be allowing undocumented immigrants to stay here and put down roots if we're not prepared to deal with the consequences. Businesses know that they are not supposed to hire undocumented immigrants but they do. Why? They can't get Americans to do the jobs and there's no real penalty for hiring and underpaying undocumented immigrants.
Whether we like it or not these DACA recipients are Americans. They went to our schools. They grew up here. They incorporated our culture, our slang, our attitudes. We may as well let them become citizens. Then our Congress, in a rare show of unity, ought to work on modernizing our immigration regulations with respect to who can come here, who can stay, who can claim refugee status, etc. Of course this won't happen because neither side is willing to budge an inch to do the right thing on any issue. So the DACA folks will be deported, we'll keep on seeing undocumented immigrants come over the border or overstay their visas, and the accusations and lies will continue.
17
They hire illegals because they can exploit them. This in turn drives down wages for poor Americans.
1
From the Donald Trump Dictionary:
Compromise (noun, singular): I give you one thing that you want that I also want, and you give me all the things that I want that you don't want.
128
...and if I don’t get my way, then I sulk and call you names.
2
Further, he wrecked DACA with the stroke of a pen, and can fix it that way.
Now the Ds are supposed to fix it for him?
2
"“Senator Thune represents a state that’s a long ways from the southern border,” Mr. Meadows said."
Funny comment from Mr. Meadows, who represents a congressional district also far from the Southern border.
Why not get input from one of the Senators from California, who represent a state that borders on Mexico, where hard-working immigrants contribute to the economy at all levels, from picking vegetables to starting high-tech companies?
26
California is now 41 Hispanic, 39% white and 20% "other". We have the largest population of non-documented immigrants in the country, and yes there are lots of hard working people among that group. Some places in California are now wholly Hispanic--whole towns. While there are a lot of folks, myself included, that want to see these kids get protection, there has to be a limit on future immigration. I say give them permanent status--no citizenship, because the democrats are using that as a voting cache, no family migration but parents are protected, and everyone stays out of trouble or chances losing that protection.
4
Californians should not be in charge of setting immigration policy for the nation; look at what they have caused to happen with illegal immigrants destroying California; the entire nation does not want to become what the New California has become.
California and Florida, as they once were, ceased to exist back in the 1980's after Medicaid and all the free social services became a factor.
Democrats should think twice before making another fatal election disaster with a faux immigration cause for this country; fool me once.
1
Agreeing to this means legal status and a path to citizenship for up to 1.8 million people brought here as children.
That seems like a very good thing.
If family reunification and the lottery are revised now, they can be revised again at some point in the future. That depends on the Democrats getting elected.
I say take the deal and make the point that with a Democrat in the White House and Democratic majorities in Congress, the other things can be revised.
Perfect is the enemy of good. Democrats aren't going to get s perfect deal now. Do a good one now and another when we have the power to make it happen.
86
And if the Dems triumph in November do we get that tax money back that The Donald and his minions want to lavish on his idiotic wall?
33
Of course they can be revised later --and the hundreds of thousands that immigrated here, and who have spent thousands of money in fees to place their parents, or sons and daughters in the waiting list, be left high and dry so that the ogre of our President can pat himself in the back. No thank you.
3
Talbot,
Can you please explain what our nation needs family reunification and the lottery for, and why we'd need "revise again at some point in the future."
6
DACA should get legal status... never the right to vote. To do otherwise rewards the lawless politicians that tried to curry favor with those who enter illegally.
I have no complaint with those seeking a better life. The politicians who refused to enforce the law and advocate amnesty should be... deported.
43
How about the employers who knowingly hire undocumented aliens? Inasmuch as they, too, are refusing to adhere to the law, should they be deported? (Personally, I'll settle for incarcerated.)
40
So they can teach our children, tend to our illnesses & fight our wars but not become citizens. Sounds fair to ...who?
1
We need e-Verify. We also need ICE to raid the equipment cleaners at the chicken processing plants. Dozens of illegal aliens there. The employer of these 'workers' are the cleaning service providers.
The workers are seriously injured on the job. But being illegal they have no recourse, no OSHA, no Workers Compensation.
3
When the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth -- their first act was to get a valid Visa stamp from the local Pawtuxet Natives. This is why every single European here is not an "illegal immigrant." Right?
88
There was no country back in 1620. Hence. nowhere to get visas. There is a country now. It's called the United State of America, and it issues visas. You see the difference, right?
10
There was no country back in 1620, hence nobody to issue visas. There is a country now, the United States of America. It issues visas. It has laws, where previously there were none.
Very glad you raise this issue.
The European colonists extirpated, enslaved and exterminated the East Coast tribes. Trading native Americans for African slaves from the Caribbean helped establish the slave trade and mass black slavery into the colonies. We owe these people reparations.
Today we use the 15 million illegals, mostly Latino, for low paying jobs, neo-feudalism. We owe these residents decent traetment.
The wealth of our nation has been built on the backs of the first nation, Africans kidnapped and enslaved and now illegal immigrants.
Broad acknowledgement of the history of our nations economic development might help bring the parties to a sensible policy.
"expensive border wall,"
The cost of the wall is less than half the cost of the aid which we just gave to Puerto Rico after the storm Maria.
I do not recall the NYT complaining at THAT time that too much was being spent.
25 billion is very little when we consider our federal budget which is in the trillions.
The aid to Puerto Rico was justified and so is the wall.
46
The argument that it costs less to build the wall than to help rebuild Puerto Rico is really dumb. Helping to rebuilding Puerto Rico is a moral requirement as Puerto Ricans are citizens of the U.S.. What can I say about the wall - a third of all illegal immigrants have over stayed their visas. 600,000 people cross into the United states from Mexico through legal check points every day and any one of them could simply keep on walking and become an illegal immigrant. Drug Cartels are using drones to fly across the U.S. border. The wall has to be one of the dumbest ideas ever foisted on a poorly informed public.
293
Do you want to pay that 25 million? How about The Donald doing that himself (it's not like he doesn't have the pesos). The wall is actually a huge boondoggle that wouldn't keep anyone out who comes equipped with a shovel. A trench would be a better idea but try telling that to a man who fancies himself a builder rather than a digger.
23
Sorry, I meant 25 billion- though it's likely to be 2 trillion by the time The Donald cuts the white ribbon.
5
I came to the US as a 10 year old from England. As a legal immigrant I am very sympathetic to the plight of immigrants, legal or not. Politically, I am firmly left of liberal. However, at this time I have modified my beliefs about this issue. For several years I have noticed in comments in media- the NYT, HuffPost, Facebook, etc. - becoming hardened about all kinds of immigration. Some are disgustingly racist and ultra-nationalist, but many good people, even many liberals, let alone democrats, seem firmly on the side of the argument that undocumented aliens should not be here. Some couch it in legal terms, others believe that people who are willing to work cheaply take jobs from Americans. Others point out that the country can not afford to take in more people for environmental or economic reasons.
I think there needs to be a strategic retreat for now. The important task before us is getting rid of this vile and undemocratic administration as soon as possible. Holding fast on the immigration issue is a tactical and strategic error at this time. Let’s get the Dreamers legalized, let the family and lottery issues be modified, agree to the stupid and useless wall (for now) so that we can deal with the greater problems of war mongering, crony capitalism, inequality, structural racism, etc. Reluctantly, the immigration issues are not the most important problems to be dealt with. We need to fundamentally change the direction this country is going first.
118
The defense of immigrants is key to *any* possibility of the Democratic party clinging to power as it is foreseeable. Imagine what will Trump ask for next if he gets this --removal of citizenship unless your parents and grandparents were born here, as Ann Coulter has suggested? And left to dry, why would Latinos ever vote? For years they gave up in the Democrats. Now Democrats seem to stand tall for them. Without them, from where will Democrats get any votes?
1
I just consider population another phenomenon subject to diffusion. Equilibrium is reached when it is evenly spread around, subject to an arguable set of adjustments.
Makes sense if you were dealing with someone who had a shred of decency and a respect for fair play. If the dems give in on the wall our so called prez will double down on his nastiness and dirty deal making which will render negotiations on all future issues hopeless for the democrats.
2
The American people made Trump president and made Republicans the majority party in Congress. They cancelled DACA. If people think that doesn't reflect our will (over 70% don't) then they should stop voting for Republicans. The Democrats shouldn't cave and have us all pay for a wall, that was supposed to be free, in order to bail Americans out for how they voted. People have to stop voting based on bigotry, guns and fake religious values.
56
The Electoral College made Trump president. The American people chose Hillary Clinton.
2
People have voted and this vote is valid until new elections change it (or not)
1
It' s the Costitution !
1
Trump continues to use his unlimited Republican mulligans to say anything regardless of veracity. And of course everyone knows about the one third of the citizenry who has no regard for truth and the rule of law. I cannot stop thinking about the numbers:
Donald Trump: 62,979,879 (46.1%)
Hillary Clinton: 65,844,954 (48.2%)
66
a goldstein you have the wrong numbers. These are the correct ones:
Electoral College Votes
304 Trump
227 Clinton
MAJOR fail on Clinton's part. No surprise. She is very mediocre.
2
I like the Wall because it will stop the "I seek asylum" -trained migrants from stepping on our soil and then claiming every right a US citizen enjoys.
28
Can you name three people who've accomplished that? (in any case, migrants don't seek "asylum": refugees do).
28
Do you have any data as to how many people actually do that in any given year? I think you may be grossly overestimating this as a problem.
5
In Italy all migrants, economic and those fleeing persecution, thus all migrants claim asylum. Just because an asylum seeker who seeks asylum claims asylum does not necessarily make them a refugee. 70% (or more) of those asylum seekers in Italy have their claims rejected.
1
The bad news is that Republicans will insure that both a solution to DACA and an immigration overhaul will fail.
The good news is that another million illegal immigrants will join the underground economy, giving the rabid foes of immigration not only low-paid workers to cook their hamburgers, mow their lawns, frame their houses, clean their toilets and service their parents in nursing homes, but will allow them decades more to spew their hatred.
Everybody wins.
12
Trump is making a big political mistake by not including eVerify in the deal.
The traditional political thinking is that Republicans do not want eVerify because their corporate donors want to exploit labor and keep wages low.
Democrats are against eVerify because it would make living in the US extremely difficult for their potential future voters and they might choose to leave voluntarily.
Notice that the reasons the major parties have for not wanting to enforce employment law is completely selfish and ignores what's good for the American people.
If Trump were to insist on fixing the illegal employment problem as well, several benefits would flow directly to American workers, the voters.
Those currently working illegally would be identified by companies and let go. This may temporarily hurt an employer, but only in the sense that they will have to hire someone else legally instead.
This opening up of the positions held by illegals would cause demand for workers to increase, increasing wages. More opportunities at higher wages than before will not go unnoticed.
Many here illegally would in fact self-deport.
Trump would win the voters.
Trump does not need donor money any more. Can he convince the Republicans to put citizens ahead of their grasping for money?
Worth a shot.
36
Trump will not include eVerify because it is bad for business. Why are you not surprised that there isn't a SINGLE iota of legal peril for any of the businesses that hire undocumented workers? If it is a crime to work for pay, it should be 100x the crime to profit from such work. Through a few CEOs in jail, and yes people will self-deport. Fat chance with that.
4
Senator Grassley introduced mandatory E-verify bill last year. Not a bad idea.
9
And a basic eVerify is so simple. Is the job applicant's social security number a valid number that matches his name and birthdate? And is that number being used at other employers? It's not unlike the check on your credit card that happens every time you use it. Right now hundreds of thousands of totally bogus SS numbers are being used that were never issued in the first place and hundreds of thousands of legitimate numbers are being used at by dozens of people simultaneously. It's a simple electronic matching system. This whole "papers" thing is a complete charade.
2
I have the quickening suspicion that President Trump and immigration is fast-becoming an issue that will not be resolved while he is president.
With his foolish decision to blow up the FBI and the DOJ by riding shotgun to Devin Nunes‘s smoking-gun memo; and the walls of Robert Mueller’s Mother Russia investigation giving the 45th president a decidedly claustrophobic feeling, no policy issue, including DACA, will find anything like a practical resolution. Congress will come to a standstill (like they’ve been doing for 20 years). And Trump would sooner throw the DACA kids and their parents under the freight train that is slowly bearing down on him than betray his base. If anything, he will hold the kids hostage to a Congress that may be beginning to read the tea leaves about his (alleged) dictating and orchestrating obstruction of justice while aboard Air Force One last summer.
From here on out, until the Trump administration’s situation is settled—one way or another—DACA, to trot out an old Watergate phrase, will “twist in the wind,” a state of affairs that will satisfy no one.
7
I don't think that immigration 'issues' will ever be going away even in our lifetimes. After DACA is settled, it will be another few million more trying to get through the back door. This will be forever endless and billions more that will want to arrive upon our shores.
7
The best way to deal with the refugee crisis in Mexico, Latin, and South America which drives desperate people to our borders would be to stop supporting right wing dictators in Latin America, provide free birth control to poor countries with high birth rates, and change drug laws to medicalize drug addiction and treatment instead of criminalizing it. Instead, we help the private prison system in the US by using tax payer dollars to house undocumented immigrants we are deporting but who would otherwise be leading peaceful, tax-paying lives. We hire white rural prison guards to work in prisons housing brown skinned people for committing minor drug offenses. Ironically, Trump's cadre of fearful Americans who have successfully been race-baited by the tactics of right wing think tanks also presses for an end to abortion. Most women seeking abortions are poor and often members of minorities who cannot afford birth control. In this way, the number of the people whom the GOP and Trump voters are trying to keep out will continue to increase here as US citizens. One can only hope that in 2018, minorities will finally come out to vote in significantly larger numbers than in the past.
25
Immigration to Mexico has been negative for quite a few years. In fact, Mexico's economy offers more growth and chances that the US, as difficult to believe as it might be to many Americans.
Both parties seem to stick their heads in the sand on different parts of this. The GOP in not funding international family planning (how about at least prophylactics); and the Democrats in insisting on turbo-charged population growth to North America via de facto open borders.
Although you can't say there have not been good faith efforts occasionally. For example, Trump, at his daughter's suggestion, did offer last year to actually increase federal funding to Planned Parenthood if they spun-off the abortion clinics into a separate organization and retained the preventative focus and women's health focus in existing organizations. Seemed like a win-win. Democrats and Planned Parenthood immediately shot it down.
1
Nonsense. The biggest source of immigrants is Mexico which for decades had a left of center dominant party but has since become a full democracy which on many metrics is superior to our own. The big out migration is from left wing dictatorships Cuba and Venezuela.
What I don't understand is the Democrats failing to join in a push to eventually give citizenship to 1.8 million DACA Dreamers.
The wall is supported by a plurality of the county, so is an ending of chain migration and the Visa lottery. Limits of 500,000/yr are what polls indicate people want.
What is the problem here? Obama only offered a two-year continuing window to "re-up" as a non-citizen in the hope that down the road they might get citizenship.
Trump is offering citizenship at great cost to him in support from the core base that elected him.
What is the problem - the DACA deal that Trump is offering meets the March 5th deadline, honors the promises he made to Schumer during the shutdown, and offers a path to citizenship for at least 1.8 million illegals.
What is the problem - serious question as it's clear Trump is offering the DACA illegals everything they want.
72
I would suggest you rethink your assertions. The plurality (whatever that means mathematically) do NOT support the wall, no do they support the limits on immigration. You tossed the assertions out there so the burden is on you to provide evidence that your assertions are true.
5
12 yrs is not a reasonable path. & not supported by evidence. As long as it's an arbitrary number, why not 7?
False, the wall is opposed by the majority of the country. Who was going to pay for that, again?
3
By the numbers the democrats cannot out vote the republicans. Effectively any end agreement will have little to do with any democratic concern. So, why take any ownership of a GOP action.
Let trump & the GOP be fully recognized for their actions and let the voters hold both accountable in the next election.
9
johnw
Unless the Rs can arrange 60 votes in the Senate, they cannot close debate on any bill (other than one passed under reconciliation with a simple majority).
The Rs hve only 51 votes at most. So the Dems hold the whip hand in the Senate.
Trump has played a good hand. He's offered up the future of 1.8 million souls so that he can write the rest of the immigration law banning all of those people from s....hole countries that he seems to despise. Democrats need to stand with the DACA recipients and bargain from that strong position.
Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh may control the minds of too many Americans, but the majority of us still have a heart. Even the Christian Evangelicals may think that these DACA recipients deserve a pathway to staying here for the rest of their lives.
Democrats also need to get out into the press and talk to Americans about what the law will and will not do for them. An example: If all immigration is based on who America needs in their workforce, or want as a part of our wealthier class, is it not potentially possible (even probable) that American citizenship will become a commodity sold to the highest bidder, controlled by corporate whims? Further, is it not true that American citizenship is best seen as a right given to deserving immigrants; people who have come here for a chance at freedom, not just the highest bidder?
Democrats need to point to the Statue of Liberty and the value of new cultures adding to the vitality of our country. They need to speak loudly, clearly, and in unison.
11
I often think about the origin of the Statue of Liberty because it was not the idea of any American. It was a french idea concerning their interpretation of the promise of "the new country".
Bartholdi was inspired by a French law professor and politician, Édouard René de Laboulaye, who is said to have commented in 1865 that any monument raised to U.S. independence would properly be a joint project of the French and American peoples.(wikipedia)
The French paid for the statue and its transport to the stares. The Americans were to pay for the pedastal and base and the Americans complained about that.
In fact, the great difficulty finding agreement on how and/or whether to pay to raise the Statue of Liberty is an example of the current discord.
Even with these efforts, fundraising lagged. Grover Cleveland, the governor of New York, vetoed a bill to provide $50,000 for the statue project in 1884. An attempt the next year to have Congress provide $100,000, sufficient to complete the project, also failed. The New York committee, with only $3,000 in the bank, suspended work on the pedestal. With the project in jeopardy, groups from other American cities, including Boston and Philadelphia, offered to pay the full cost of erecting the statue in return for relocating it.[84]
Again Trump distorts the truth. Calling Democrats against DACA is a misstatement of the facts. What he SAID was that he would approve DACA in exchange for a list of regressive changes to immigration policy. Unfortunately, nuance is not Trump’s strong point. And his base laps up any distortion as though it was the right version of reality.
21
Trump doesn't want compromise; he wants capitulation. He does not know what compromise is.
32
giving a pathway to citizen ship is compromise for Trump. What have the Democrats offered?
3
A life-long Dem, I think Democrats should take the deal. It's reasonable and a huge majority of Americans want this.
Unfortunately, this is why Trump won. Most Americans -- even liberal ones -- don't think it's cool that people can come and live here illegally.
Who didn't want to move to Italy or France when they were young? You knew you could't because there'd be no way to work.
If Dems take Trump's deal, let's call Repubs' bluff and see if Paul Ryan can muster the votes in the House.
90
It would be good if the Republican Congress produced legislation that could lead to normal procedures in the House and Senate that would in turn engage both sides in legislative compromise and lead to a signed bill on the President's desk. That's what Senate Majority Leader McConnell promised to do after all. Democrats cannot bring a bill to the floor without the approval of the Republican leadership. Maybe our dumpster fire of a President has forgotten that.
7
Trump is right in that the Democrats don't/can't seem to produce anything.
Why aren't the Democrats crafting legislation that matters to Democratic voters (such as about health care, the economy, gun control, women's reproductive rights). Even if that legislation is defeated - at least Voters would know that the Democratic leadership cares about thing that are important to Democratic voters. Instead, the Democratic leadership seems to have put all their political capital into issues regarding immigration.......and immigration issues/reform is not a a primary concern for Democratic voters (just look at just about any poll). Charles and Nancy need to wake up now and come to the table or the upcoming senate races will be lost.
23
Repubs control which bills get taken up in committees and advance to the floor. Then the Speaker and the Senate Leader decide which bills can be voted on. Also, the news media is not covering even the most important bills Dems write and push, like the Medicare for All bill. So you're not hearing about what Dems are doing.
2
I am a immigrant myself and Trump’s proposal makes sense to me. This is 21st century not 19th century. A nation has the right to control its borders and decide who comes to the country. On immigration America is to the left of every developed country like Canada, Australia etc. Moreover why should the good luck having been born related to somebody in America be good enough reason to come here. Isn’t it discriminatory to those who don’t know any body here. Already high skilled people are taking there talents to other countries as immigration to US is primarily family based. Due to sheer number of family immigrants applications the system has become clogged. A spouse of a US citizen has to wait more than a year to get his/her green card. Spouses of permanent residents have to wait years to get a green card.
A better approach will be to negotiate with the president and get a better deal
63
One side (GOP) is holding the future adult lives of nearly 2 million people hostage as a political bargaining chip. We are talking about real people here, people with friends, with feelings, with hopes, and with plans.
The other side (Dem) simply cannot refuse to bargain because too much is being asked in exchange. Human lives are simply worth too much. If someone were to keep my children hostage at gunpoint, I would gladly give them all they want to save them. I would not refuse simply to make a point.
And this is exactly the situation we are in now. The GOP is keeping the dreamers hostage at gunpoint, and the Dems need to cave in and give them whatever they want, and make it clear that it's because they value people more than anything else and are willing to take a beating for it.
And then there will be an election in November, and we will know the meaning of "karma".
1
Is it too cynical to wonder if Trump cancelled DACA so he would have DACA as a bargaining chip to get funding for his wall that Mexico was going to pay for.
24
Uh, that's exactly why he did so. And, he is going to get what he wants.
2
So saving DACA is the right thing to do and would benefit the country, but Trump won't do the right thing unless he gets approval for a wall that the majority of voters don't want? Didn't he promise that Mexico was going to pay for his wall? What happened to that? (And for that matter, where are his promised taxes and proof of his 3rd wife's citizenship?)
He told Congress to bring him a bi-partisan agreement and that he would sign it. Then he refused.
The best negotiator ever cannot be trusted to keep his word, and Democrats need to stand firm on their refusal to give in.
74
Trump conflated Dreamers with MS13 gang. His Exhibit A Dreamer came in form of venomous residual with MS13 victims front and center. Look America at what happens when you allow immigrants into this Country-murder and crime-was ridiculous. The All Americans are Dreamers dilution should have been All Americans wish they worked as hard as Dreamers............
14
Trump did not conflate Dreamers with MS-13, that is your interpretation. He told us what the worst can be. Democrats sugar coat the situation only saying what is best about illegal immigrants and their children. All Dreamers don't work as hard as you are saying. They are not saints or devils. The truth is somewhere in the middle but the reality is their parents must break laws to live and work in the US, so there is a problem. Personally, I don't want MS-13 here and I don't want an underground economy of persons living in the shadows in my nation. I also don't understand how 800,000 Dreamers turned into 1.8 million seemingly overnight. Makes me inclined to believe there are more than 11 million illegal immigrants living in the US.
6
WEEEEEEEEEEAK!!!!! I am so sick of democrats caving to the bullies on the other side of the aisle. "Acting the adults in the room" is a strategy that simply doesn't work when dealing with political fanatics.
The problem is the donor class pays strong republicans to run roughshod and win over weak democrats that THE VERY SAME DONORS pay to crumble, capitulate, and cave for the big lose time after time after time.
republicans = Harlem Globetrotters
democrats = Washington Nationals
9
I think you mean the Washington Generals
6
Mr. President -- that's all you got? The self-proclaimed master negotitator has nothing to offer but insults.
You ended DACA and now you berate the opposition party. You broke it. You fix it.
Looking forward to the Democrats eating your lunch come November.
246
Cancelling DACA was a brilliant move on Trumps part. He appeased his base by negating what they see as a program created in an illegal manner by Obama while creating leverage for what most Americans see as a fair and rational immigration policy.
4
I read the article and can't help but come to the conclusion that Donald J Trump is the most self centered man in the universe.
123
No one lives forever. We are human. Not even Donny
1
Democrats created DACA.
Trump is the one who cancelled it.
Now Trump's holding stellar American community members hostage in order to extract billions from Congress for a symbolic Wall in order to fulfill a campaign promise.
Oh, and Trump plays even more politics by lying that having taxpayers pay for his symbolic Wall is the same as having Mexico pay for it, the rest of his absurd promise.
139
Trump’s indulging his own racism and the racism of the Southern and Midwestern white Evangelicals that are his base. They use the Bible to justify their dislike of brown people just like their ancestors did with slavery and Jim Crow.
Trump isn’t the problem. Southern and Midwestern racists are.
1
it really is too bad the democratic leadership is unable to adequately explain the difference between daca and immigration reform. they, along with jeff flake, had an agreement to have a vote on daca. now the republicans want immigration reform attached to the same vote... the democratic leadership lost in january and it looks like they will lose again now... sad!!
16
Trump has no credibility and can't be trusted on anything he says.
Remember when he made a deal with Pelosi and Schumer last September.
He's made the same demand many over and over, he pretends to be concerned about the welfare of the Dreamers, but he keeps going back on his word and he and the Republicans consistently negotiate in bad faith.
Problems like this one will only be solved if voters show up at the polls at the midterms and vote the bums out.
78
"Trump has no credibility and can't be trusted on anything he says.
Remember when he made a deal with Pelosi and Schumer last September."
Remember when Schumer made a deal with the American people back in 1986. He wrote a bill which he promised would end illegal immigration in exchange for offering a path to citizenship to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Instead of ending illegal immigration, Schumer’s bill encouraged it. We now have over 4 times as many illegal migrants as we had back in 1986.
When it comes to ending illegal immigration, Schumer has no credibility.
48
I have reached the point that democrats should just go ahead and give Trump how ever much he wants for his nonsense wall. Take away the applause line and let republicans on the campaign trail answer, "why do you want to spend a bajillion dollars we don't have on a wall that won't be effective?"
14
Montoya the cost of the wall is less than half the cost of the aid which we just gave to Puerto Rico after hurricane Maria. Nobody said THEN "we don't have the money".
16
@Aruna: The people in Puerto Rico are American citizens and many of them STILL don't have electricity or fresh water in their homes. So let's use those funds for the border wall (which The Donald promised he'd get from Mexico in any case) for the folks in Puerto Rico and give them back the kind of life that mother nature took from them.
18
stu,
"@Aruna: The people in Puerto Rico are American citizens and many of them STILL don't have electricity or fresh water..."
Then how come the gov of Puerto Rico (they have an independent gov) has never given any aid to CA after the many wildfires and earthquakes or FL and LA after hurricanes? Why has it always been a one-way street?
Tell ya what, we give PR electricity in exchange for them laboring on our wall $5/hr. That will cut the cost of the wall at least 70%, making it a no issue.
3
Please, Democrat Party, do not give away the best bargaining tool you have. Do not cave in on DACA. Those young people do not deserve to be abandoned by the only organization that stands a chance of saving them. We, the people who really care about America, will somehow manage if the government closes down. Even people like me who are retired and live on Social Security.
23
Since Social Security benefits continue even with a government shutdown, you're hardly making a noble sacrifice.
5
There is no such thing as the "Democrat Party". It is a false, pejorative term used by unpatriotic Republicans.
1
I voted for Obama twice, but I think Trump's proposal is very fair.
1.8 million illegals get citizenship to the greatest country in the world instead of being deported to their own poor countries. That's like winning the jackpot.
Chain migration ends. Bringing in one low-skill immigrant to compete with our blue collar workers is one thing. But then that immigrant brings in his low skill spouse, and his siblings and parents. And then his spouse brings in her parents and siblings. And the siblings bring in their spouses. Trump's proposal to limit this craziness does make sense.
Ending the diversity lottery makes sense too. A lottery is by definition random. Why do we want a random immigration policy. Our immigration policy should further American prosperity - it should be merit-based.
The border wall and stronger enforcement obviously makes sense. We're a nation of laws. Further, our blue collar workers have already been decimated by "free" trade and automation. No need to further hurt them by forcing them to compete with 15M low-skill illegals.
155
What jobs that haven't been able to be outsourced are being taken by the 'insourcing' of endless low wage immigrants, both illegal and legal.
15
So it's ok for high-skilled Americans to compete for jobs with high-skilled immigrants but not for low-skilled Americans to compete with low-skilled immigrants...? Most of the low-skilled folks are, in any case, performing jobs for below-minimum wages that few Americans would accept even at minimum pay. They're contributing to the economy and are not eligible to receive public assistance benefits. Try doing without them!
25
Better more efficient and effective enforcement makes sense. The border wall is stupid. If you really want to end illegal immigration you need to issue bio-identity cards to legal guest workers and require employers to register the identity cards of workers they employ.
7
Why is applause so important for the president? Isn't a bipartisan agreement on legislation more important than stroking his fragile ego? His priorities are not in order. The president had a deal on immigration before his disparaging comments about certain countries, then gave in to hard-liners in his inner circle to insist on a four pillar approach to the immigration problem. Stephen Miller and John Kelly are the ones who are unwilling to budge so that both sides can get something to break this logjam.
26
The GOP views the "Dreamers" as chips on a poker table, that's all. How much can they get Democrats to cede for what they see as worthless (because they don't/won't vote) people. I am sure the President and GOP could care less what could happen since in their long game the votes of their supporters far outweigh any moral or political upside.
So the Democrats can either stand for something or cave in and get nothing. I say to Senator Schumer its time to walk away from the table.
183
What you are writing is true for both sides. It is all a big game - some call it fight - and it gets repeated over and over..
10
The "Dreamers" are chips to both the Republicans and Democrats. To the Democrats, the "Dreamers" represent their view that a future US that has a majority Hispanic population will keep them in power forever. There are no good sides in our political system.
24
Isn't that the definition of crazy - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
3