American fatigue with identity politics, may well center on "trans" people.
Gays have seen a complete hijacking of our community and even our name by trans people. I reject the term "LGBQT", because being gay is not a bucket that everyone who's different gets dumped in. Being gay is not a "catch all" category for anyone whom the mainstream finds edgy or iffy. Yet the offensive term "queer" has encouraged anyone "different" to appropriate my community.
And this is exactly how the politics of PC and Identity Politics have begun to abuse gay people and the words we use to refer to ourselves. We are now just a dumping ground for random weirdness. The acronym grows longer. I don't accept that, many gay people dont' accept that, and many ordinary Americans also see the inanity in it.
As the ridiculous acronym grows longer, I go retro. I think gay people (and lesbians and bis) who reject the Identity Politics hysteria might do well to go back to using just one word, "gay." It's only under the extraordinary superficiality of Identity Politics that every possible difference has to be articulated with minutia of labelling formalities. Normal people see the nonsense in this.
Transgenderism is not a sexual orientation. Deep in our souls, all of us are "transgender" as we all have masculine and feminine, male and female -- Jung wrote of it, even Jesus said as much in the Gnostic Gospels. Thus, to make a "thing" of transgenderism is both shallow and misguided.
47
I suspect these groups are suffering from over exposure and an in your face and somewhat militant persona. Folks I knew growing up that were gay simply paralleled us and assimilated and we treated them as the friends an d members of society they are. No different from the rest of us.
12
I am generally a progressive person; I don't want to hassle anyone and in return I don't want to be hassled.
Jennifer Finney Boylan represents that part of the LGBTQ community with a tremendous investment in its own misery.
30
Dear Ms. Boylan,
Thanks so much for this. I am the faculty advisor for my (extremely liberal Manhattan) high school's Rainbow Club and I've been shocked to hear from the students the kind of homophobic slurs that now occur daily at my school. They wanted to create a poster campaign that just used overheard quotations but i had to veto it because they were so obscene and upsetting. I've emailed your article to my faculty to use as a point of entree for a school discussion of this. So thank you for this out there, and all the other wonderful pieces you have written in the Times: they are putting rays of hope out into a darkening world.
The LGBT community, after years of direct action, has become socially acceptable in the west in many ways but was it ever really accepted by the majority of the heterosexual community? Answer: There’s still a long way to go, so NO is the answer.
Typically heterosexuals need direct family connection to the LGBT community, example, a family member is gay, or if ones boss is gay…then one might change one’s prejudice. How many times have we been subject to a politician who was strongly opposed to LGBT rights, then changed after a family member came out of the closet? More often than not.
In the case of President Trump regarding LGBT rights, he indeed speaks with forked tongue. He said one thing as if to say he was convinced of his resolve to support LGBT peole then went back on it later on, example: first saying he’ll be the best lighthouse for LGBT rights then negated trans-persons serving in the military. He was clearly not convinced and one would even say, secretly opposed; ergo…he was never really on board in the first place. This type of political lying is the worst of all. Saying it’s not cost effective but not cutting Viagra was a red flag beyond measure. But his heterosexual base is on board with him, so his decision from a political survival standpoint was correct, from a humanistic standpoint a train-wreck.
2
In a culture where many men think clubbing a woman over the head and dragging her off to a cave while he goes hunting and gathering, it isn't surprising that sexual ignorance, insecurity and fear persist and polls measuring sexual and gender status are likely to be volatile..
Our culture operates by social permission -- the latitude we have for our beliefs cued by broad consensus and conveyed through social media silos, and popular culture for or against specific social values.
The Obama Administration's firm support of gender and sexual equality, mirrored in the media and popular culture, along with resolute advocacy by activists, cultural and political influentials, led to a broad climate of permission for positive perceptions of L.G.B.T.Q. communities and identities.
That was then. Now is not: Trump's last hurrah of cultural/religious facism he empowers and expresses has taken away permission for tolerance and granted it to bigots and haters who target whomever they fear and loathe most. That list runs from Blacks, Hispanics, immigrants, women, Muslims, the poor, and all the way to stigmatized sexual and gender identities.
Instead, Trump is permission for haters, bigots, homophobes, white supremacists, racists, misogynists, religious zealots, political provocateurs to feel validated and strut about main street as facists norm enforcers.
The arc of the moral universe doesn't bend toward justice by itself. It needs permission secured by activism and engagement.
2
You truncated MLK's remarks. In full, they read: "The arc of the Moral Universe is long, but it bends toward justice." Every major social change has set backs, and the full acceptance of the LGBTQ community is no exception. We are a Rainbow Nation, but the colors aren't quite as bright today as they were a year ago. This is sad but not unexpected. Let's hope the retrenchment is shallow and short, so that arc can continue on its way.
I have been out since 1975. Back then there were important battles for the LGB community. Over the decades laws have been passed to give us recourse in the event of discrimination. That's great but it did not end the bigotry and persecution by some in the society.
However now rather than going on and leading our lives some LGB people pick fights that seem weird. The wedding cake is an example - there are many bakers who would likely have had no issue baking the cake. Leave the bigot to his stewing and have a good time in life.
17
It is a private decision. I, for one, do not know you, do not care to know about you and wish you would keep a private decision private.
8
I wonder if you're mis-reading the data, in part because of your desire to blame Trump and praise Obama. It's more complex than that.
People are more educated and aware every day. They do not unlearn compassion or understanding. Once they have had a chance to understand the situation of a trans person (for example), that lesson will stay with them.
However, while people are now more comfortable with the idea of people who are different from them, there is a new dynamic these days, which is the culture of taking offence at every opportunity.
It's no longer enough to mean well. If you're not up to date with the latest terminology, you risk offending someone. If you're not totally comfortable with the latest demands, you risk offending someone.
The bathroom bill was the final straw for many people. While undoubtedly a good thing in itself, good, honest people found themselves labeled a horrible people for asking what seemed like reasonable questions like: "what if I don't like the idea of boys being able to go to the toilet with my 12-year-old daughter?"
Yes, there were good answers to their doubts, but they were quickly criticized and insulted long before they got answers. If you weren't up to date with the latest liberal thinking in New York, you felt like you were walking on egg-shells. And some people still do.
I wonder if this is not a big part of what makes people uncomfortable. How much easier to not have to worry about every word you say offending someone.
20
Part of it is trying to beat people upside the head to love you. Love can't be extorted. Another bad move in my opinion was the insistence on trying to usurp parental prerogatives on teaching children about sexuality and values.
But the biggest issue is calling someone transphobic if he or she dares express sole sexual interest in the opposite sex or refuses to accept brand new social definitions that are at variance with reality.
Just leave people alone to live in peace. Transgender "rights" never should have been bundled together with gay issues.
30
Trump's administration has just made it more acceptable to admit to being anti-gay and "pro-white" (i.e., racist). There will always be homophobia, racism, and misogyny. The left is always trying to monitor what people feel and say when the focus needs to be on legal protections. I'm tired of identity politics and this constant stance of victimhood and personal grievance. I survived the AIDS crises, Reagan and Jesse Helms. (Many I knew didn't.) Laws you can change; hearts and minds are not, and should not be, under our jurisdiction.
5
The article compares apples and oranges. Earlier opinion surveys asked originally about Gays, then Lesbians and Gays. Gradually a still-expanding list of other alphabetic identities has been added, and there may currently be less public support for those. Parents may accept schools teaching their kids its OK to be gay, but not that its OK to change their gender.
An issue which will have to be addressed, and for which the politically correct answer may change over time, is whether all these identities even belong together or not. Currently it's obligatory to describe all these LGBTQ etc identities as a "community", as if bisexuals and lesbians and transgenders all hang out convivially together, go to the same bars and parties and picnics, etc. But they generally don't, and there's actually some hostility among various parts of this theoretical "community". In practice, all these other identities have just glommed onto the Gay community for their own purposes, because thats where most of the money and power resides.
Right now it's convenient for these other identities to seek a (sometimes grudging) protection under the broader LGBTQ etc banner. In time, they may declare that their identities are being blurred, stifled, and submerged by this association, and strike out on their own -- which will then be the politically correct thing to do. Public opinion polls would then produce different results, which again would change over time.
16
I can only speak for myself. I'm tolerant of whatever it is you want to be. I'm not tolerant of anyone wanting me to be a part of their sexuality. I'm just not that interested in what you might be up to in that department.
8
No, we're all very tolerant and supportive, most of us, but grow tired of it being pushed down our throats and being front page news everyday.
We get it.
We support you, but take it easy. You've come a long way, enjoy it.
9
I too might be as ignorant as so many who comment and mistake even the most basic elements other people's lives were I not, like so many others, affected by people I know and have learned from. But ignorance has a big fan these days and people rally to it's cause. Trump sought ignorance, celebrated ignorance that exists and has existed. The party has used ignorance and fear as its engine (I've seen many campaign ads around the country) and continues to do so on many fronts not to just the rights of others to be.
I can't support the idea that someone else's right to be is less than mine or diminishes mine. I can't support the idea that recognizing another person's right to be means I don't care about your right to be as well. I can't support the idea that a person's right to be should be based on how many like others exists.
So many lessons are easy enough for a child to understand: "A person is a person no matter how small". "Treat others as you would be treated."
1
Given that voters have handed swingeing majorities to the anti-gay Republican Party in the majority of state legislatures and the majority of state governorships, and handed the GOP command of all three branches of US federal governance, including the US Military, it is clear to me that LGBT activists got too confident too quickly. The Republican Party are a wolf in wolf's clothing, and have never bothered to even try to conceal their arrant contempt for LGBT Americans. Were it up to them, same-sex relationships would still be a criminal offence with all the concomitant discrimination, and LGBT Americans would still be banned from serving their country in the armed forces. They have voted against every single LGBT rights measure in their party's history.
With the ascendancy of the Far Right, masquerading as the Christian Right flying the flag of 'Religious Freedom', the tide is turning against us, and we now have to try to figure out a way to prevent a complete reversal while we still have the freedom to speak. Minorities are always at risk from the majority, so the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
2
America was not very tolerant of Civll Rights for minorities during any time in US history, including now.
Decline in support of the LGBTQ community is the direct consequence of their attack on bakers, florists and photographers. Not only did the community demand acceptance, they also demanded that the rest of the country embrace their lifestyle. Ha they been victims who lost jobs, or housing there would have been support. But victimizing artisans was a big mistake,
Pretending that trans women are being victimized is fake reporting that omits a significant detail. The "trans women" who were killed were working as prostitutes. Men who pay for sex with pros are likely to respond with anger if they find out they are not getting what they paid for. No prostitute deserves to be beaten or killed; engaging in high risk behavior entails risk.
The author of this article would have you believe that Trump and Trump supporters are responsible for polls reflecting diminished support for alternative lifestyles and the killing of prostitutes.
Hillary ran in 2008 on an anti-same sex marriage platform. Trump did not.
15
First of all: this dip in acceptance rates observed in this study is statistically negligible. It's certainly not enough data to indicate a trend in any particular direction. So let's stop hyperventilating that the arc of the moral universe has suddenly begun to bend away from justice.
That said, I can certainly understand why the movement's loudest voices are nervous. Radical queer intellectuals and activists have spent the last several years chasing a series of rancorous, deeply divisive issues to the top of the national agenda. Unlike marriage equality or workplace protections -- issues that grew in popularity due to consensus-building and policy experimentation at the state level -- this new agenda relies on angry think-pieces and twitter storms rather than policy prescriptions and robust judicial strategy. These activists quite literally seek to dismantle the concept of gender, politically and etymologically, and to brand skeptics or naysayers as bigots. This is not leveling the playing field; it is ripping up the grass altogether.
Tellingly, those within the community who question this radical new agenda --
the need for new stripes on the flag, for instance, or a litany of new genders and pronouns -- are cast as heretics. Is it any wonder Americans are losing their patience with this graceless and unending parade of grievance?
15
You've probably heard or read "When do we get our Straight Pride Parade?" You have your straight pride parade, dearie. It's called mainstream society.
It's actually almost touching the way phobia defies logic. "Why should we redefine marriage to accommodate less than 1% of the population?" (The actual statistic is totally irrelevant, of course. Civil rights are not determined based on how many of you there are.) If the LGBT do comprise such a minuscule minority, what's the fuss about? First it's claimed that there are maybe eleven transgendered people in the world, then people behave as though they're surrounded by them.
You an keep your acceptance and approval. Freedom, and equality under the law, aren't such a bad trade-off.
2
I expected a backlash after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Marriage Equality for all Americans. The backlash was made even worse by infighting within the LGBT community. Gay men were being told by too many Trans activist to check our cis-gender privilege. The word Gay was replaced with Queer under the guise that it was more inclusive. The fact that that very well known slur had been screamed at Gay men during beatings or worse. The first chance the right had at striking back came during the HERO fight here in Houston. An unholy coalition of Evangelical Christian Conservatives and Black church members used fear about transsexuals using the public bathroom to smear the entire community as a threat to children. Even after the defeat when we should have been coming together some Trans activist blamed the loss on the Gay men and Lesbians who worked so hard to make the ordinance happen. We made sure the ordinance included every letter of our growing acronym. Our Trans allies were not where to be found when the original ordinance was being debated before City Council? Houston is the largest major city to elect an openly homosexual Mayor. But when the Black community made a deal with White Evangelical Conservatives to block civil rights protections for LGBT people our newly fractured community didn't stand a chance. If the divisiveness can't be healed we won't be able to fight off the hatred disguised as religious freedom coming from the right..
4
The fact Trump & Co. has embraced 400 right wing religious conservatives, some who are recommending extermination of gays or a gay encampment, should be sending chills down the spines of all sensible people. I for one have been awaiting this backlash for sometime. The religious right, small in real numbers, is powerful. One only need listen to the screed coming out of the mouths of the likes of Falwell, Jr. (whose father I abhorred as much as I do the son) to get a sense of the vile intolerance coursing across the nation. But, I also wonder at times if there is "too much" gay thrown in the face of the American TV viewer. Persons and groups of persons must learn that an invisible threshold exists on all matters of social awareness. Pushing the envelope often leads to an energized, vicious push back. Those who are pushing back more often enjoy the wealth and the power to promote their hatred agenda. As I recently wrote to a friend, "The LGBTQ battles may have been won thus far, but the war is far from over." At some point, we each must learn that each of us is called to follow our own path, even if the path is different from the majority. The endless misappropriation of Holy Scripture to gird up one's hate and intolerance is a disservice to humankind, to God and to Christ. Too often those who embrace "God & Christ" do so on a platform of hatred, intolerance and ignorance.
1
No one gets respect by yelling, "RESPECT ME!"
19
"Identify politics" is the radical notion that we all want to be fully human. It's sad that seems to be too much to ask for. Instead of asking why black people, gays and lesbians, the transgender community are being "annoying" about things like being attached and killed for no other reason then we belong to that particular group, are fired/not hired, kicking out of housing, etc., maybe ask why we are still fighting for these basic things. I have to wonder if I'll get attacked it I want to hold my wife's hand while walking down the street. Be glad you don't live in that world instead of criticizing me because I don't want to live it in either.
3
Uncomfortable maybe, hostile, never! The vast majority of Americans do not wake up every morning with hostility towards others on their mind.
8
And what possible responsibility could the LGBTQ community have for how people percieve them?
4
A small proposition. Rather than LGBTQ... How about NCH Non Cis Hetero. Much more inclusive and accurate.
2
I think the decrease in acceptance in the polling is due to the recent focus on the transgendered and people who identify as intersex and gender fluid. Letters keep getting added and now we have LGTBQIA (QIA being Queer, intersex, and asexual). Maybe this ever expanding umbrella encompassing every possible identity is causing a bit of a public backlash? We don’t have to bring every fringe identity to public discussion. Im a gay man, and I also think that there has been too much LGTBQ push on young school age children. Prepubescent kids do not need to be educated on sexuality and gender identity. And starting kids on hormones is just plain wrong. Going through puberty and figuring out one’s sexuality can be a difficult time. Starting someone on hormones is dangerous and can have life long implications. There should be age requirements before someone is allowed to transition with hormones.
23
"Feeling uncomfortable" is neither a crime nor is it a suitable target for a survey. If you are stating that you wish to regulate my feelings, than you are saying that you wish to regulate my thinking. To somehow politicize that by denigrating Donald Trump is nonsensical. The real point you are making is a dangerous one. That way way way beyond the LGBTQ rights issues, the author believes that peoples thoughts and feelings are fair game to be judged and deemed guilty if they do not align with the LGBTQ standard. Indeed that is a good reason to be less tollerant of LGBTQ "rights" if you think that you have a so called "right" to regulate and judge what I feel.
10
Just point of fact. The “arc of the moral universe” is routinely attributed to MLK. True he did popularize it, but it is actually a quote from Theodore Parker, a reformist Unitariann minister in the 1800s.
3
I would encourage readers to become more tolerant of transgendered individuals. The evidence is that it, like homosexuality, has genetic origins. See, for example: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/10/27/2401941.htm. Further, transgendered individuals, like gays and lesbians, do no harm to any of the rest of us!
4
There is still much work to be done by all reasonable, thinking people. Tribalism and primitive ideas still pervade half the planet, as well as a third of citizens in our supposedly advanced western democracies. Racism and bigotry still rears it’s ugly head with far too much regularity. I’m afraid we’re still a generation or two away from fully extinguishing the plaintive wails from the last of our societal dinosaurs.
2
"Twenty-seven trans women were murdered in 2017, most of them of color."
The murder rate is brought up a lot... but how many of these trans women were involved in prostitution (as sex change is expensive, especially for poor people of color)? Many times these trans women want Johns to think they are actual women until it is too late.
13
Trump and the right wing have made bigotry, in all its forms, fashionable again. I grew up in the south where the N-word was a common noun like tree or apple. As an adult I learned that many people used a similar word to disparage every ethnic group not their own. Slurs became unacceptable in conversation, but that did not change the minds and hearts of many.
Trump's war against "politically correct" is focused on legitimizing hate and bigotry and splintering society. It allows everyone to blame their group of choice for whatever angers them. That same anger and hatred is voiced by nationalist groups in many European nations.
Your apprehension and concern for the LGBT community is understandable. Hatred of a different group is one of the most troubling characteristics of humanity. Every person of good will must challenge it every time it rears its ugly head. And it is an exhausting fight.
2
The increase is statistically insignificant. Donald Trump is president. Let's blame Donald Trump for the statistically insignficant increase.
I may have missed it, but has Donald Trump said one thing against gays that could have contributed to this statistically insignificant increase?
Also, a pool conducted by an organization that is hoping for a certain result, is not a reliable poll.
7
Come on. Not hard to figure.
If someone like Donald Trump is supported by “Christians” then heterosexuals are their go to.
Can you imagine realistically an LGBTQ Christian rally for Trump? He’s our leader now. Christians don’t throw those kind of parties.
1
I'm shocked at the number of comments that can be interpreted as racist or homophobic in reaction to this column. Genuinely shocked, not like Captain Renault in "Casablanca." Reading such comments in the New York Times was unexpected. It just goes to show that Times readers come from diverse backgrounds, and once in a while something is written that causes them to come out of the closet.
5
Totally correct to blame Donald Trump. Please understand, Trump definitely gave something to his deplorable base in return for their votes while picking their pockets,.... and that was the absolute right to hate others- immigrants, blacks, Hispanics and the LGBTQ community. It was probably a fair trade as the deplorables do derive an ugly pleasure from being able to denounce the "other."
1
Most Americans don’t care about other people’s sex lives - so please stop claiming “victimhood.”
We surely don’t care enough to go to the effort to “victimize” them - sorry if this denies any person from being super “special.”
Please, pick a sex, any sex, male or female, or both - we just don’t care.
Decide which bathroom to use, we just don’t care.
Then for God’s sake can we move on to real issues.
11
Something went wrong when the Left decided you needed a 2-year Master in Foucault Studies to engage in any debate.
11
No, I believe and see that Americans are more and more comfortable with homosexuality, especially in our youth and seniors.
Any discomfort, division or harassment is fostered by Trump, the Divider in Chief, and the Bible thumping Republicans who only are relevant when they sow their hate, bigotry and intolerance.
We as a community need to do the very things that have brought about the acceptance of homosexuality by most Americans and through the world...speak out, vote, run for elected office, be visible parts of your community, be engaged, be good neighbors, be good employees and business leaders and be good role models.
2
Trump is also at fault for the fires in California and hurricanes in the islands....
11
You can blame Trump for this, which is the default explanation for anything that the New York Times doesn’t like, but maybe, just maybe, people are a little weary of the relentless, strident in your face broadcasting of sexuality and identity.
Sleep with/marry whoever you want. It may be your legal right but it doesn’t mean I have to like it or be happy about it.
7
50 years ago distaste and rejection one way or another of gays was about 75-80% of the population if not more. There always was a smallish minority for whom these people were not a problem. The pendulum has swung to 55-65% okay with gays. it will swing back because human beings are fickle, unthinking, scared, suspicious, threatened (and hate-filled) and irrational. Back in 1978 one prominent evangelical minister claimed God would cause California to split in half from an earthquake because of gay sex. This isn't different from thinking we see in Leviticus and the Justinian Code. Next someone will claim that gays are created by having too much subatomic particle of 'gay dust' from gay male adults land on male children over a prolonged period of time.
1
Maybe the reason for less tolerance is public schools sending out forms asking parents to inform them what sex their child identifies with and the appropriate pronoun to address that child.
20
I'm sorry to learn of these poll results; they're disquieting. But can't a New York Times columnist, regular or contributing, write on any issue these days without larding the effort with off-topic snipes at President Trump?
I doubt Mr. Trump is homophobic, and the writer can't point to anything he's done that suggests he is. (OK, transphobic he may be; it's possible. So is are least two very liberal Democrats I know.) He didn't choose Vice President Pence because of his views on sexual variance in society. Many gay-rights supporters don't believe a baker should be required to creatively design and bake a wedding cake for a same-sex couple that conveys support for gay rights—or a heterosexual couple in support of fundamentalist Christianity. Either constitutes forced speech, in violation of the First Amendment.
As for failing to invoke gay people on World AIDS Day, if the president had done that, this writer and virtually everyone else who opines for The Times would have accused him of singling out, stigmatizing, or scapegoating gay men.
It's too bad the writer didn't stick to the worrisome point here and engaged in the same tedious rhetoric we read in The Times a dozen times a day.
7
I think the answer is that too many Americans blindly follow the leadership of the country. The current leadership is anti-LGBTQ, so Americans are blindly following the bigoted leadership.
Careful trying to tell people what they know "deep down". Your assertion that there is some kind of movement to convert all children is just as preposterous.
4
Aggressive transactivism & the casual attitude among transactivists & the medical community towards transitioning children and teens is doing damage, IMHO.
With the Informed Consent medical model, "changing gender" no longer requires any counseling or a lengthy consideration process, or the person to live as the opposite sex for a period of time. All a patient has to do is sign an informed consent form, and they are given an opposite-sex hormone prescription.
As far as the effects of these treatments, in women especially, they have not been studied much at all. Yet girls as young as 11-14 are put on a regimen of testosterone FOR LIFE. A 5-year study has been conducted, but these girls who are transitioned will take the stuff for decades -- say age 15 until 75. Furthermore, testosterone use is not FDA-approved for females, so this is an experimental, off-label use of this potent hormone on CHILDREN. Puberty blockers (Lupron and other GNrH agonists) are much the same, yet have proven dangerous side effects. Go to Lurponvictimshub-dot-com and read about the destroyed health of those who have taken it. Yet we give Lupron to children for years at a time to stop them from undergoing their natural puberty. Much brain development occurs during puberty -- what happens (or doesn't happen) to the brains of these kids ho never undergo puberty? No one knows. As far as fertility goes, again these are CHILDREN being sterilized, not adults "making the decision" not to have children.
13
Fellow boomers might recall a word without much currency, 'transvestite'. Just for fun I googled that. Of the ten headlines appearing, none contained the word. Every link tied to 'transgender'. After correcting its own interpretation of 'transgender society' to 'transvestite society' Google gives you some relevant hits. Perhaps The Newcastle Transgender Society is still holding meetings since the 2013 posting. People who think catering to the insistence of some that society needs to accommodate their notions of who they've convinced themselves they must be is counter-productive will be encourage by the view expressed here: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/psychiatry-expert-scientifically-there...
Billy Joel said its ok putting your two cents in if you know when to leave it alone.
Onward.
4
I get the feeling that the LGBTQ communities want constant recognition, accolades and unanimous support at every turn in the road; and if you can't, don't or won't, you're some racist minion unleashed by Trump. If we don't meet the LGBTQ community's criteria for approval then we've failed them and ourselves on all accounts. If you're an employer and have to terminate a LGBQT for cause, it's because you're a bigot, not because they just didn't work out. It's time for the LGBQT to grow up and understand that their community is not a catch all for things that may be lacking in them as individuals. That many people could really care less what their sexual preferences are and resent being lectured to and called out because they don't share their sentiments. Most of us just want to get through the day, get the job done and go home and put our feet up. Enough already.
14
To my LGBTQIA friends, Jesus of Nazareth taught: the first shall be last and the last first. We ought to all remember this when we start to think that the universe is for us or against us. Time is on your side. The more people see you living your truth, the more acceptance you will find.
Old bigots will go the way of all flesh, and bigotry in the name of Jesus cannot stand in the light of the Truth that God is Love, and God loves you.
I don't like Trump any more than the next guy, but why did you have to throw in the white privilege rubbish? You mean the rural whites in my community with no health insurance or jobs? Maybe the ones on disability from logging accidents. Or maybe the ones whose kids are on heroin.
Here you are complaining about lack of tolerance and then trashing a good chunk of Americans. And you wonder why people vote for Trump. I shake my head.
18
Why such a long acronym, instead of calling a spade a spade?
I have always objected to such neologisms as gay for homosexual and sexual intercourse for the much broader original meaning of intercourse.
I love to rub against the grain the politically correct pharisees by saying "I had a pleasant verbal intercourse with her ...", meaning "I had a pleasant conversation with her ..." Then, a referral to the Oxford or Webster becomes usually necessary.
2
America has grown less tolerant of identity politics in general and specifically of sexual-behavior minorities literally forcing themselves on the vast majority of the population that is, not just "defines itself", as hetero. I would never bash a gay person, physically or psychologically, for being gay, and I am not a member of the religious Right. But hetero is clearly the path of Nature, at least on this Earth. If not, why are all higher life forms on this planet predominantly hetero? (I can see the argument coming that in an overcrowded world homo/trans is an adaptation favoring survival, but I choose to direct those arguments toward a study of earthworms.) Perhaps straight people are finally tired of having gay marriage shoved in their faces by non-elected judges, deliberate attacks (that is the correct word) on bakeries and other small businesses by gay proselytizers, and trans-advocates demanding that the hetero community pay for sex changes, hormone therapy, and the inevitable cancers to come. Perhaps straight people are fed up with the NYC-Hollywood-SF-Democratic Party echo chamber anointing any and every self-proclaimed "minority" with special rights, all of which translate as we (LGBTQ's) play while you (straight) people pay.
15
Give me a break. It has little to do with Trump and much to do with gay couples gleefully suing bakers who want to live their own way...just like the gay couple.
12
Stop lumping. The problem is with the T part.
You're trying to legally force people to use specific language (compelled pronouns, including nonsensical made up ones). Then you try to force normal people to be exposed to genitalia of the opposite sex in environments where they expect no such thing (changing rooms, communal showers, etc.).
And stop trying to police language in general. Every time you try (usually successfully) to get someone fired for saying something impolitic, however many years ago it was, you alienate a lot of people - and rightfully so. You're not going to achieve acceptance by employing public bullying tactics.
Put another way, the path to avoiding torches and pitchforks does not include carrying your own.
22
I was born in the USA and educated here. Fortunatēly, when Iwas 15 I got togoabroad for two years before college. In three other. Ountries in which I lived - Switzerland, Germany and Norway - Iearned how FALSE my belief in the USA was- how shallow, bigotted andracist most of my fellow citizensare. This article confirms thatbuteven more the readers’ letters do. US American?! Please look for more ethical people! How can these bigots represent our country? We who believe in justice “whine”? Lessthan 5% of the world population believes itself to be above the rest of humankind?! Mmmmm
yes we are getting less tolerant. thats b/c in part we never WERE that tolerant in the first place. when I suggested to a bunch of smug lawyers in 2001 at a party of a certain well know local law firm that it was (obviously) an open and shut case of equal protection, they turned around in a huff and stomped off. but we all know its true now as it was then. and the case law could have gone there 40 years ago if it wanted to. but it didnt. why?
because regardless of where the law is, society never got there. just b/c the supreme court finally said it in 2011 dosent mean society was any more ready for it. things did NOT change overnight in peoples minds, onlyin the official eyes of the law was there a change.
and you knew the backlash was coming b/c if we do nothing else in this country, its allow the pendulum tos wing too far back the other way to right old wrongs. we are now (to steal a line) met on a great battlefield of that "war". we have just not yet come to dedicate or honor any of the "soldiers". we just arent there yet. and the lgbt community aint making it any easier unless you live in ny, sf, key west or similar places.
sorry but we have other more important things to worry about; like universal healthcare, jobs and what the orange disaster is preventing regards climate change. I know, you'll have none of it b/c this is important to YOU. and thats in part its that self-centeredness that makes most people say sit down, shut up and wait your turn. it aint there yet.
2
Trump lied - not surprising.
The christian church is leading the charge of hate, discrimination and violence against anyone who does not look, speak, walk, talk or worship like them.
Oh, you might find pockets of 'SAFE SPACE" in the bigger cities, but in red states/ rural areas, also in blue states, where ignorance is tied to the christian dogma you will find no tolerance for anything except hate & intolerance.
Sly and the Family Stones' "Everybody Is A Star," quoted in the article, stands as the high-water-mark of the belief we could all get along together. I miss the sentiment greatly.
When I came out as a gay male in 1975 at the age of 2O there was as much hostility in this country for homoerotic males as there is today for trans-people. Red State America is simply throwing a huge tantrum because over the last 5O years they have gradually lost their White Heterosexual Christian male cultural dominance. They used to have total control. Now they don't. They think that Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin can get it all back for them. I think that time will make their error clear. I believe that it was Arnold Toynbee who said that "Civilization does not move backward." No matter what the White heterosexual Christian Republican party tries to do.
3
No better proof of the writer's conclusions than that found in the readers' comments.
4
Tolerance means walking into a stinky public bathroom because YOU HAVE TO in order to use the toilet. It's not anything that would be PREFERRED. Americans appear to be getting tired of pinching it's collective nose.
Maybe Amerca is discovering that what the homosexual community wants to call "rights" is a political agenda, scientifically fraudulent in many cases, in which the rest of us want no part.
4
I'm sickened by all the homophobic and transphobic trolls who have come out to spew hate in response to this article. Undoubtedly, they are people who bristle at what they see as the conformity and oppressiveness of political correctness, but who see no hypocrisy in their own insistence that (as an example) trans-people are denying reality. Who made you the guardians of reality? Who are you to tell someone who they are? Does it make you feel better about yourself to mock other people? You're pathetic. To my LGBTQI friends and family, you matter. Don't listen to the narrow-minded haters. Be yourself! Don't let anyone tell you who you are!
2
The homosexuals who have sued bakers, florists, and photographers for not wanting to provide services for their wedding have shown they will not tolerate any disapproval of their lifestyle. Bullies are disliked.
8
Black, white, brown, yellow, straight, gay, trans, old, young, left, right. Bring 'em all on. Where are we, again?
AMERICA!
2
Trump's "LGBTs for Trump" advisers responsible for the photo do not seem to be very well informed on LGBT affairs. The rainbow flag if upside down (the purple strip goes on the bottom.) Or is this a deliberate send-up?
I'm surprised at the nastiness of so many of these comments. It seems unusual for the NYT. Was this article pinged on some right-wing site?
I've never understood why anyone really cares about the details of other people's sex lives, or their anatomy. If you see a see a straight couple, do you really put this much thought into imagining them having sex or picturing their genitals?
If you do, aren't you just kind of a perv?
4
The problem is the T. Less than 1% of the population gets to tell women that how they feel about things like seeing male genitalia in a women’s locker room doesn’t matter. Women are noticing, and it feels a lot like another form of misogyny.
17
The amount of transphobia and homophobia expressed in these comments belies the myth that Times readers are all liberals.
2
Some years back I had a lesbian (openly) supervisor in a not-for-profit organization, who from time to time would express hatred for men ("just like a man to do that!"), or openly revel in her fulfillment of negative lesbian stereotypes ("I can really be a BITCH!!!" uttered w/ a gleeful grin, but shaking her head in mock self-reproach).
As my supervisor, she'd been responsible for my training, but chose to delegate this to a young woman hourly employee who had a stake in the training going as slowly/inefficiently as possible; the supervisor on numerous occasions expressed her attractedness to the young woman (who as about half her age, or even somewhat less), incl., according to the young woman, "[She] asked me to marry her." I saw the supervisor asking the young woman whether a young man who'd been mentioned was her 'boyfriend.' On several occasions the supervisor took her out to lunch, though clearly the romantic interest was one-sided. Clearly the young woman regarded the flirtation as innocuous, & favors advantageous. The whole situation tended to be adverse to me, including subtle abuses of the informally delegated powers.
If full LGBT equality were in place, the supervisor could've been subject to prosecutions similar to ones in the news, but her implicit victim status gave her a pass/ leeway unavailable to heterosexuals, which she exploited.
Should she be called out/prosecuted as aggressively as a hetero man would? She enjoyed tacit exemption, legal/institutional.
6
Yes, of course, we LGBTQ folks are noticing the emergence of intolerance and hate, spewing from #45's mouth right on down to our local communities. We are not, however, alone. Along with queer communities, others under attack by this Administration and its GOP lackies include all women (including those who don't seem to notice their rights slipping away); Black and other people of color, especially Mexicans and Muslims; poor people, working class people and all the middle classes; progressive/liberal Jews, Christians, and people of faith; patients and sick people; the very old and very young among us; and the earth and water and skies -- and this is not just in America. The whole earth is suffering setbacks under the weight of the current US Administration's contempt for all living beings. So, sister, brother, and sibling queers, take heart. There is strength in our unity -- and this must be our project!
2
The poll is only 4 years old, it hardly gives a long enough view of America's evolving views on LGBTQ people to have anything insightful or meaningful to say.
That is, I'd be surprised if ANY poll on ANY matter (race, abortion, women, men, stock market...) went only up year after year forever.
In any case, we know from history that social progress is not a straight line going up, it's a battle to be fought each and every day with peaks and valleys to preserve every inch won and lost.
This generation's #metoo moment is but Anita Hill's moment lost and regained. And so the struggle goes on.
1
most americans dont want this rammed down our throats.
4
Don’t give Trump too much credit! Many conservatives are turned-off by his intolerance. What is the reason? The “T”
I fully respect transgender adults.
After a personal experience and 2 years of evaluation as a PhD scientist, I’m aware of a new risk for adolescents: Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD).
Adolescents are known for: angst of not belonging, social justice, stubbornness, separation from parents, trying different identities, etc. Anxiety, depression and self-harm have increased in this cohort and more kids are in a vulnerable state. ROGD is a new threat.
Through social media and friends, some kids start thinking that they must be transgender. This is probably nothing like what the author of this article experienced. Today, transgender beliefs are reinforced by psychologists following the treatment guidelines of affirmation therapy and a vast online community on numerous social media highly trafficked by teens.
All I can do is speak my truth (thank you Oprah). My daughter easily met the WPATH guidelines of 1 year of consistent, insistent, and persistent. Now she thanks us for pulling her out of affirmation therapy and her access to YouTube sensation Miles McKenna because she says, "I was suddenly grateful that I had not transitioned. It would have ruined me." Without a steady diet of affirmation, she was able to think critically.
Many centers operate on an informed consent model where no mental health screening is required before administering cross-sex hormones.
29
Trump's actions speak volumes. His beliefs? No one may ever know what they are, or if he is capable of having any, beyond self-interests.
Your question, "Is America Growing Less Tolerant ...?" cannot be measured over a few years in another "media" poll.
The last place anyone should look for America's direction right now is the White House, or those he goads on.
3
Yes, re answer to your headline.
The reason is the movement did not learn from Lincoln ie get what you need, not what you want.
He won the Civil War first and then ended slavery since without the former he could not have accomplished the latter. He accomplished both in a rather short period of time.
The gays should have gone with civil unions first and then gay marriage and other groups later. Though a stroke of luck with Roberts voting for them, they got the latter.
As the old saying goes, don't ask for what you want, you may get it.
Instead of learning from Lincoln a period of backlash will most likely come that will set back their movement a long time instead of going for civil unions first.
It is the same with Hillary. Instead of addressing some of the legit issues that Trump demagogued like good paying blue collar jobs going to slave labor countries she ran and obsessive identity campaign that helped do her in.
8
Perhaps things would be better if President Obama hadn't forced a controversy about public restrooms where none had before existed. In the past few cared who used the same public restroom as they, as most people tried to avoid using them altogether. By making it a national controversy he made many wonder what was next. Back in the days of campaigning for the ERA one of the threats of the anti-feminists was "there will be unisex bathrooms!" and feminists said "what a ridiculous, fear-mongering claim." Oops. We didn't foresee the divisive tactics of the future Democratic Party, which have led to a backlash. In addition to Obama's bathroom fiasco, we now have local Democratic politicians here in New York who have tried to stifle the First Amendment to protect transgender persons. Anyone who thinks that obliterating the First Amendment will somehow give them rights is sorely mistaken. The more these ill-advised dictatorial Democratic Party decrees continue, the more backlash you will see.
23
Historically, panicked fears of imminent restrictions on rights tend to break down republican democracy.
A functional res publica requires a shared sense of respect for the rule of law, while democracy requires belief in the equality of all individual rights. Claims of a breakdown in those beliefs can be a two-edged sword.
One problem is, there has never been an open discussion of transgenderism in this newspaper that I am aware of. As many comments here testify to, a lot of people, including myself, has some very serious doubts as to the reality of transgenderism -- believing that one is in the wrong body -- in many cases. I continue to wonder whether in many cases this isn't simply a psychological disorder that requires treatment in that arena. Of course, it is very politically incorrect to say this, and, THAT is the problem. Perhaps it's true that as a side effect of the disaster of Trump's election, more people are willing to speak their minds about this issue and not simply go along with the ideological purists. So, can we have this discussion? Can we read an article, or watch a video, in which a panel of recognized experts of differing opinions on this subject -- reasonable people, not ideologues -- debate this question? If there is any way that I would ever come to be supportive of transgender rights, it is through this kind of open discussion, and not through being guilted into having to believe it.
33
The battle will never be over as long as ignorant people are taught to disrespect people who are different than them by religion,location or sexual orientation. I have been in the frontline of the gay rights movement for almost 50 years. I quit a Chicago high school when I was 16 in 1953 because I had those tendencies. Then there were no support groups in schools,homes and the workplace as well as in big or small towns. I have seen the great progress made in Civil Rights,Women's Rights,and especially Gay Rights. (That's me with Harvey Milk, in my profile image. I knew him as a friend)
Today, more than ever there are fewer closeted GLBT people because we are out to friends,family and neighbors... and they have become our best allies. We will not rest until red and blue states protect our rights here in America and progress is made throughout the world. We just want to be equal, no more, no less than anybody else. It's no longer a no-no to be openly out and as long as people are informed there is hope for understanding the game of respect.
3
I think the blessing of the Trump presidency is that we're finally seeing that we're not as progressive on civil and LGBT and womens rights as we like to think we are. There's still a lot of work to be done to protect minority rights and the conversation needs to be ongoing. Let's not bury our heads in the sand and pretend that everything will be OK once Trump leaves office.
2
If people are “tired” of being tolerant of “all of these minority subsets”, then why don’t they just embrace all humans? If you have a business, serve all humans. It is not the minority who is at fault here - it is the bigotry of the business owners religion that they want to take precedence. Religion over being an American.
Separation of Church and State is a mainstay of the Constitution. If SCOTUS rules otherwise, America, as we have known it, will be gone. And little do these Evangelicals realize that religion can be used against them by another administration. The wheel is always turning.
8
Give it time, one year does not indicate a trend. Bigotry of all kinds whether against the LGBT community, immigrants, Muslims, people of color was given an "okay" signal from the right wing politicians not only in this country but around the world. One can suspect that many closeted bigots came out of the closet after being given cover. But as long as there are courageous people who speak to the truth and set an example things will continue to move in the right direction. Trump will not be president forever.
5
I agree trans rights may be the fly in the ointment. Speaking plainly, there is a legitimate conversation to be had (if indeed it is ever allowed) as to whether they are progressive or regressive. Some LGB feel T has in many ways hijacked their advocacy/institutions. Regardless of gender, skin color, or orientation, the discuss of trans rights, can throw up some difficult ontological roadblocks.
20
"if it is ever allowed" ....indeed! And isn't that pathetic?
2
We can tolerate this community and peacefully co-exist. But they do not have to be in our face constantly and publicly. Learn some discretion.
15
There has been more coverage of late of conflicts between people on either side of the cultural divide: the cake baker fined and censured for declining to make a cake for a gay wedding because it conflicts with his religious beliefs, students who object to sharing a locker room with a transgender classmate, kids disciplined for using “the wrong pronoun” for a transgender classmate, a Canadian professor censured for pronoun use. Most people aren’t going to pay attention to these stories or care all that much, but there are others who feel their own rights are threatened by these things. In some cases, they are being pressured or coerced into saying or doing things they believe are wrong or that make them extremely uncomfortable.
11
In my life, I have never had to defend myself from anyone from the LBGT or any other sexual orientation/identity community. Their concerns are always personal and of their own rights and safety, living their lives in a hostile community of self-centered bigots who think they are the ultimate arbiters of judgement and justice.
I have been in the building where shots were fired by a person who hates the Government and attacked TSA agents at LAX. I can tell you who is the danger to American values and morality and who is not.
2
I'm going to try to say something about this from the point of view of a Jesus follower. There are so many things in reality that are, from different angles, arbitrary. I was in Sweden in 1970, the summer that the whole country switched from left side of the road to right side of the road. There was a two-hour halt to traffic, the signs were veiled and unveiled, and, voilá, complete change. But which side you drive on is completely arbitrary.
We who follow Jesus, and who understand that the Bible is God's inerrant revelation to us for faith and life, understand His creation of men and women from that perspective.
Professor Boylan's piece here talks about polls that inquire about "uncomfortableness." The only uncomfortableness I sense in my heart is the worry of whether I'll be able to express my convictions without being called a hater, or a bigot, or intolerant. I am able to enjoy the company of anyone who handles an encounter with grace. You are you, and I am me; let's talk about that or anything else.
But to insist at the same time, by any kind of socially accepted, or subtle, fiat, isn't fair. My understanding and conviction sees the all-options-are-open approach to sexuality and gender identity as at least a misunderstanding of God's design. And it saddens. Yes, the man is man, woman is woman idea is arbitrary, but so are lots and lots of things.
The difference is that I do not belong to myself. And it's not mine to determine.
God is good; that works.
18
Bravo.
2
I don’t find the poll results shocking. Being a bi-person of color, I’ve always known racism and homophobia lurks just under the surface of many people. Political correctness has long masqueraded as tolerance or acceptance, when it was only a way for the person ascribing to it to feel better about themselves.
The impulse to murder of transgender people isn’t due to “compassion fatigue.” It’s sickening, tragic, and deeply disturbing.
Instead of “casually mentioning” to one’s child, that a person is permanently sterile due to taking testosterone, how about an open discussion about LGBTQ issues?
You don't undergo gender confirmation surgery as if you’re ordering a different kind of sandwich on a given day. You only have to look at the suicide rate statistics.
While, I don’t think Trump created people who hate; he wrote them a permission slip.
And it’s hard to “ride out” a backlash when you’re six feet under, due to someone else’s “discomfort” with your presence.
If you can’t force yourself to have compassion, how about considering the idea that we’re all joined by common humanity?
27
It could be that some of us not in the LGBTQ community are getting weary of the attention being paid to those individuals over and above their actual presence in the array of individuals in this county or the world, for that matter.
If you want a place in America, fine. Just don't bother me about your "specialness" or expect me to applaud you or step aside if I see you walking my way.
44
Trans folks are looking for safety and basic respect - not special treatment.
4
All for equal rights, but there are far more important things people have to worry about in their daily lives and this does not make us bad people, get over yourselves.
16
I don't think Trump has anything to do with it. Your movement is being hit by a backlash from the Cake brouhaha. People realize now that "tolerance" now includes harassment of religious minorities that don't go along with your ideology. Keep in mind that the repeal of laws on discrimination were the result of a decree of the Supreme Court and didn't represent any change in public opinion. People who disliked gays before the decision still do.
11
Well-Educated people are more than tolerant of L.G.B.T.Q rights. So, if the USA is growing less tolerant, then that means the USA is becoming less educated. Understanding Equality Rights is an IQ Score Point Requirement. People who do not understand and are not for Equality Rights are poorly educated.
4
As someone who came out not long after the writer, I never felt my 'white privilege' was in any way helping me. But then again, she was a middle-aged woman who had already attended Wesleyan and Johns Hopkins; I was a teenager in suburban Texas.
The GLAAD study Ms Boylan mentions is a biased, one-pager delivered without context - despite her claim, it does not quantify that "support" has dropped at all.
The study only identifies that the number of people "very uncomfortable" or "somewhat uncomfortable" in specific situations has risen - lumping the results of the 2 together. What if "very uncomfortable" has dropped? What is very comfortable has risen (the GLAAD study doesn't even give numbers for, presumably, the comfortable and very comfortable answers).
The one page of results is not enough to draw conclusions from.
26
It is far easier to hate an individual or group than to love them for whom they are. With hate one doesn't have to understand, share empathy, or see the commonalities that binds us all. For politicians like Trump, the easy path to power is through division, bigotry, and cold naked fear of the other. True equality is equality for all and not just for ourselves. Folks will use the thin veil of religion to base their discrimination on. But the one commandment that supersedes all others is, "Love Thy Neighbor." And to do so with out caveat or qualifier to radically transform our interactions with each other for the better.
4
Feel free to enlighten me, but am I the only one who feels everybody has forgotten (or perhaps was never taught) the difference between sex and gender? Sex is a physiological construct, where gender attributed to a sex is more socially created. Therefore, any individual who sees themselves as “struggling” with their gender identity; that struggle is more a reflection of society’s problem with gender, than the individual’s.
Perhaps the academic literature on sex and gender has changed since I attended college in the 90s. I don’t know. Again, feel free to enlighten me.
3
From my 76 years of living I don't see gay/lesbian rights going down; actually I see them rising to normality and respectability. In fact, people questioning T rights frequently preference their opinions with "as a supporter of gays...". We are becoming aware of the existence and needs and wants and humanity of Ts and having discussions about that, WHILE at the same time we are becoming more tolerant and accepting of gays and lesbians. Furthermore gays and lesbians themselves like everyone else are ALSO becoming aware of Ts and their needs and wants too. One can't lump everyone, LGBTQ, into a single group.
12
I fear that there is some truth to Ms. Boylan's fears, as seen in many of the comments below, which seem to betray a stunning unfamiliarity with trans issues and the lack of knowledge about the reality of trans folks living in the US, particularly their opponents, some of whom seem to have an unhealthy obsession about bathrooms or who have the startling misconception that kids are being tricked into this by wily advocates.
I'm a straight guy, albeit physically disabled and an amputee, have been dating a trans woman for nearly five years now, and when she at first used to be nervous about that dynamic, given how much abuse she's received from her family upon coming out, I would tell her "Look, I'm missing some parts, you've got some extra parts, it'll all come out in the wash." Although I'm hardly perfect, I wish that more people could view the world that way. A small percentage of people are amputees, and a small percentage of people seem to be born into the wrong gender. The amputee gets a prosthetic or a wheelchair, the transgender person gets hormones and possibly surgery. It shouldn't be such a big deal but it scares me for my girlfriend's future in this world that the latter is such a big deal to people.
2
Let's be clear about something: open acknowledgement of gay people in our society and the subsequent toleration and acceptance of them has changed massively for the better in the time since Stonewall, and there will be no equally large movement backwards from that. Yes, there will always be some who won't like our relatively tiny subset of society, but if truth be told, I don't like them either. The author, however, also discusses transgender people, and therein lies the rub. The issues involving the integration of transgender citizens into everyday life are far different from that of gays, and in fact muddies the water for both groups. To try to pretend the problems are one and the same for both is a politically correct mistake that is not enlightening here, and they should be discussed and advocated for separately.
12
There is a large difference between believing that the LGBTQ community deserves the same legal protections as do all people, versus accepting people who are different from oneself as friends. Trump is not the cause of bigotry or bias, but he has, as the author points out, made it acceptable for people to strip away their one millimeter thick veneer of political correctness, and say what they really think. What we are seeing is that it is easier to legislate than it is to change feelings. The only lasting way to change feelings is to actually meet and socialize with people in the LGBTQ community.
2
Or maybe ordinary folks are just getting tired listening to how privileged they are, how oppressed whatever alphabet gender minority nobody ever heard about few years ago is...
Tolerance is very much needed - but from both sides. When you weaponize mob for "social justice", it's no surprise people get angry and fight back. This is very dangerous, people may know what to say publicly, but privately, that's different thing. If you push ordinary people too much, demand special treatment for some groups based on their self-identification, that can only result in backlash.
For example - the cake case - why wouldn't they just find different baker - I am sure there is plenty of them (and not doing business with somebody is just basic right)... Instead the crowd was weaponized, baker put under fire. Does anybody really thinks this helped the situation? That the baker or similar people are going to change their views - no, they will just start to become more intolerant as they see their views pushed. And this is very dangerous - this is where the actual intolerance and division starts.
Myself, I am atheist. I have couple of Christian, Muslim, Hindu friends and we simply get along very well because we respect our differences and different views - I am not forcing mine, they're not enforcing theirs.
And this is what the social justice crowd misses quite few times - they want to force their worldview to others - but this quite different thing for equal rights for everyone...
15
Thanks for your memory of your father. Loving family elders make a huge difference. When my young adult shared trans status with 83-year-old grandmother (several weeks before she died), who grew up in a republican family, her response was a resounding love clap. "You are my grandchild and l love you no matter what." She did not spend one minute parsing out who gets defined as whom or bogged down in matters she didn't understand. She saw a fully human person she loved and made certain that person knew how deep that love went.
We sure could use more of that!
2
I believe it is a growing intolerance of those who demand equal treatment, rights, and overall acceptance "as they (he/she/ze/@X/etc.) are" but in the course of doing so, advocate for their own special status, own special pronouns, own special protections, etc.
It is intolerance of the entitled and hypocritical. We get plenty of that via normal politics.
12
I feel like the Democratic party has become increasingly divisive about individual issues. But I think that's by Trump design as he attacks individual civil rights one by one - he makes us all turn on each other, hunger games style, squabbling over whose issues deserve more attention right now.
We can never forget that equality and civil rights are the lifeblood of our country - and we're being drained dry with every new anti-civil rights justice Trump appoints. Get together under the big tent, democrats - listen to each other, educate each other - above all, work together to get the GOP yes men out in 2018 and Trump out of office before 2020!
3
Since when does being "intolerant" with something mean not feeling uncomfortable about it? I may feel "mildly uncomfortable" about a situation involving someone other than "cis" but would not change the way I act toward them. Perhaps the surveys should have measured actual discrimination, not "feelings" since intolerance means altering your behavior, not how you "feel" about it.
2
Per comments below:
Yes, these are YOUR concerns and you have the right to express them no matter what the readers response is.
We need to hear all view points.
But these are YOUR concerns and should NEVER be used as a judgement or rule of law on the L.G.B.T.Q. community.
We already have the government & the christian church trying to gain control over women's live, lifestyle choices, etc.
Rule of thumb - if it doesn't feel right for YOU then don't do it, buy it, speak it and do not spread hate for anyone that is not like you.
We've had enough of that.
2
As always, I enjoy and appreciate your writing. Thank you.
It could simply be the movement cannot convert people at an equal rate over time. Once you hit a certain level it requires more effort to convince people they are on the wrong side of history. The decline is probably a statistical variance or a variance in the way the question was asked. People generally don’t go backwards.
Second comment, which is sad, is many people who are tolerant of gay and lesbians aren’t ready to accept transgender. Some people who are OK with their gay or lesbian cousins, would struggle with a transgender sibling. Sadly, this will take more time but the fight today will make life better for people in the future.
Please keep up the writing. Eventually the arc will touch everyone
18
MEASUREMENT
Back-alley beatings by off-duty bakers are apples. Service refusals by on-duty bakers are oranges.
PERSPECTIVE
In a market that has risen 10,000 points in 10 years, a drop of 100 points in a day does not usually induce a panic.
CONTEXT
If a small child falls while toddling across a carpeted room, it will pick itself up and keep going. If adults notice the fall and make a fuss, the child will burst into tears.
FATIGUE
If you arrive at my party in a magnificent hat, I will greet you by saying “what a magnificent hat!” If you tap my shoulder five times during the party and demand that I appreciate your magnificent hat, I will hide behind the waiter next time you approach.
11
Perhaps directing the substantial resources of these communities toward voter registration and and getting out the vote on Election Day will go much farther in achieving the goals of the “L.G.B.T.Q. people” DT won the last presidential election in part because of a low voter turnout.
1
I do not think people give too much thought to LGBTQ people and why should they be given preferential treatment? Aren't we all special and deserve praise? No one should be placed on a higher plane then another.
4
I see the downturn in acceptance as largely a reaction to the religious right's so-called "Religious freedom" shibboleth. Many Americans are convinced that the efforts of LGBT peoples to protect themselves from discrimination are designed to take away something of value from the religious community. Frankly, my ego doesn't need the approval of bigots, so I am not really concerned by this development.
1
If we want to protect gay LGBTQ rights, then the priority is to elect Democrats. This goal won't be furthered by campaigning on culture war issues like transgender bathroom rights and immigration. Instead we should focus on reversing the retrograde policies that are increasing inequality and dismantling the safety net protections, which are issues much bigger in their impact on ordinary people - actually, they are life and death issues for a lot more people, among them many voters.
2
Donald Trump is in the process of turning the clocks back in America. By the time he leaves office, the US is going to be a very different place than it was when he came to power. It will be more divided and far less tolerant and liberal. Donald Trump, I fear, is going to trample into the ground many decades of hard work done to give gays a decent place in American society. This will be a very sad development for America, a country which has been the beacon of hope for gays for years. What is also very disturbing is that what happens in the US today generally gets replicated in Europe tomorrow. Trump may be good for Wall Street, at least until the bubble bursts, but I fear he is going to lead your country into darkness. The clocks are being turned back before our very eyes.
4
Donald Trump is in the process of turning the clocks back in America. By the time he leaves office, the US is going to be a very different place than it was when he came to power. It will be more divided and far less tolerant and liberal. Donald Trump, I fear, is going to trample into the ground many decades of hard work done to give gays a decent place in American society. This will be a very sad development for America, a country which has been the beacon of hope for gays for years. What is also very disturbing is that what happens in the US today generally gets replicated in Europe tomorrow. Trump may be good for Wall Street, at least until the bubble bursts, but I fear he is going to lead your country into darkness. The clocks are being turned back before our very eyes.
1
Here we are, living in a country where people are starving, children are going uneducated, there are mass shootings, animal abuse, election tampering, environmental issues, diseases, natural disasters, and on and on and on ..... yet still there are people who focus their anger and angst on the sexual orientation of others.
It would be a lot more productive to spend our energy on our collective needs rather than squabble about natural differences, but who ever said humans are rational?
3
Many are intimidated by the topic because of their conformity to old "standards." Even the complexity in understanding and accepting the LGBTGIA acronym overwhelms many.
2
The ever expanding acronym is absurd, as is the obsession with minutia of labelling involved in Identity Politics.
I'm gay, and I'll be pleased if you just call me gay, thank you Sir and 'Maam. I don't need ridiculous acronyms which have nothing to do with me and my sexuality. They represent a hijacking of my community by folks with agendas for promoting various edgy issues and now, even random weirdness.
#Gaysrejectingidioticacronyms
5
Jennifer, thank you for all your work and for writing this, pointing out how things are changing. It's sure disheartening to read some of these comments that only reaffirm what you've noted is a trend toward more hate, not less. It's clear that our country needs leaders who will insist that none of us are discriminated against for simply living our lives with integrity, without giving power to others to judge and oppress. I'm a 62-year old white lesbian midwesterner. Life has not been that easy at times: I've been fired from a job, reassigned/demoted from one, had my parents disown me, and a partner of 12 years, who did not want to come out, leave me. I'm sure lots of people will look at that and say, "Yes, but there must have been other issues." It's funny, in every one of those instances, things were rolling along very well for decades (job, parents, lover), until I came out as a lesbian. This is my life. I work, pay taxes, own a home, go to church (thank you, United Church of Christ), get sick, go to the doctor, shop, etc. But I always wonder, in the back of my mind, if someone is secretly hating me or will treat me differently/badly because of who I am. I'm not demonstrative about this. Our inside joke when we see a woman here, with certain hair, is "Lesbian, or just midwestern lady?" People who question me for being who I am need to know that I've paid a price and that's real. Do they really want others to have to live this way? This is America. Land of the free.
1
I agree. Trump is the cause for increased prejudice.
When people are fearful of being ostracized, they more easily submit to hatred and prejudice. The fear is instigated by demagogues such as Trump. His rhetoric is one of exclusion and fear of anyone deemed as other than "us."
Philip Zimbardo addressed this phenomena in his book, "The Lucifer Effect, Understanting How Good People Do Evil."
2
Intolerance decreases when someone in your family or among your friends is different, rather than an abstraction
1
While doing a unit for my Grade 8 Social Studies class on "America's Democratic Principles" I put up a rainbow flag. My school superintendent made me take it down after parent complaints.
2
I too put up a rainbow flag on my desk at work once...and was told to remove it. I was told not to talk about my "personal life" at work, while all other co-workers freely talked about theirs. I put a rainbow flag on my vehicle, and came back to find the car windows broken out. .
These things happen. But they also happen to non-rainbow people and over all different issues. We are strong. We go on. One of the things I am concerned about in the young gays of this era, is their level of whining. When I was young and gay we dealt with a lot of injustice and we didn't whine about every little thing. Actually it occurs to me that the better things get for people, the more whining, over more trivial issues. I would have been , for instance, so embarrassed as a young gay person to whine if I asked to rent a room in someone's home and they said sorry we dont' want any gays here. I would have figured I didn't want to live with people who didn't want me in their house, and waltzed onward.
In the old days we had a humor that was built up by difficult experience, a humor that's not available to those who become hysterical over trivial difficulties. Now young gay people are whining about these things and some crybabies are even suing over things like this. The weakness is embarassing to me. How will folks ever deal with real problems in life if they want to sue people every time their feelings get hurt?
Identity Politics is now being used to bully people -- big time.
I'm sure I'll catch flack for this, but I'd bet what we're seeing across the board is not intolerance but rather exhaustion. The rising visibility of identity groups (in this case a larger group that encompasses several identity subgroups) coupled with the increased emphasis for political correctness in all sectors of our lives with the exception of our private homes is exhausting.
17
If you look at "political correctness" as another phrase for "treating people with respect," it stops being exhausting.
I think it's a stretch to claim that public unease equals intolerance. Our behavior reflects our understanding of social norms, but most of us realize that we will encounter behaviors that don't conform to our expectations. We may feel a certain discomfort, but that doesn't necessarily mean hostility. It is the sensation that comes with the broadening of our minds.
2
MAGA was code for bring back the mores of 1950. When "happy days" memories of an all white teenage friends hung out at Louies Soda Shop. There were no minorities and certainly no gays, or immigrants or working Mom's.
Trump unleashed the white nationalists and all the hate groups.
It certainly hasn't made America be what the constitution says it should be. God Bless America, the land of the Free.
17
America had become so "tolerant" that it was going off of the rails. For those who were already off of the rails, they loved it. But for the many who want normalcy, they hate it.
2
I don’t believe that America is becoming less desirous of fairness and justice in the treatment of ALL our people. I believe that what the Harris poll relates has more to do with an increasing impatience with the intensity of attention demanded by identity-shards of our population that, all together, don’t approach the numbers of, say, our African American community (which itself represents less than 13% of our population). We may be suffering from excessive demand on the limited attention-span anybody can dedicate to each of so MANY identities, and the injustices that accrue to them. LGBTQ is an acronym that encompasses FIVE such distinct communities.
Sometimes, it seems as if David Dinkins’s curious notion of the “Gorgeous Mosaic” has run riot, and that every American is under intense pressure to pick out and cherish every single, atomistic tile in the mosaic, regardless of its weight and importance to the whole – instead of focusing on the shared attributes and messages attendant to the ENTIRE mosaic.
It can get trying. People may need a vacation.
I can understand Jennifer’s willingness to heap all this on Trump, given the buttons he pushed to energize a besieged base – besieged by factors OTHER than gender-and-sexual diversity. But I’m sticking to my analysis. Trump didn’t invent this broad reaction against atomization, he merely exploited it. And I DO believe that the numbers of people flocking to the banner that rejects equivalencies in focus … are increasing.
85
Replying to Richard Luettgen:
I have to agree. I'm far left and have always been sympathetic to the LGBTQ cause, but even I'm getting tired of hearing about it. The latest bit of news that made me roll my eyes was finding out that after Tweety's State of the Union address, the Dem response will be by Joe Kennedy accompanied by a trans soldier.
Really? Really??
How many trans people are in the military? Like maybe one-half of one percent? This is what the Dems hang their hat on?
And people wonder why the radical right keeps winning.
13
Mr. Luettgen: You are mistaken if you suppose we in the LGBT community need or desire to be "cherished" by you or by anyone else outside of our community. What we require is civility and equality. While we have made great progress in my lifetime, we are not yet there by any means. Job and housing discrimination is still allowed in many states. Imprisonment and even execution of LGBT people is still the rule in quite a few foreign lands. I'm so sorry if our continuing struggle against this oppression has strained some people's attention span but we cannot allow a "vacation." It is, after all, our "ox that is being gored," and the pain is often intense. We are talking here about the real lives of real people - not bits of stone in a theoretical mosaic. Further, you have been misled by the LGBT acronym. It does not represent 5 separate communities. It represents ONE community; sexual/gender minorities. We are all in this continuing struggle together and denial of equality to one of us affects all of us.
30
Richard Luettgen's crude and unnecessary characterization ("identity-shards") notwithstanding, he does make a real point about exhaustion. For the individuals who have suffered at the hands of the majority population there is no end to the struggle for equality and dignity. For those who feel they've made their peace with the various cultural changes of last twenty-five years there is a strong desire to simply move on. While these two positions are not automatically exclusive of one another, they are often incompatible.
What Mr. Luettgen's myopia prevents him from seeing is precisely Ms. Boylan's point: Trump didn't invent the broad reaction, but he does pour gas on it. The record is clear about how Trump courted the very LGBTQ population that he now winkingly vilifies.
4
The poll has been going for four years? And for "the first time ever" acceptance went down? As much as 3%? Any poll results will fluctuate. This looks like sample variation, not a trend.
39
I was about to write the same opinion before I reached your comment. I stopped reading the Op-Ed piece when I arrived at that paragraph.
1
I read another story about this poll and they mentioned that it went back up to where it was before.
1
I suspect what is causing the problem is trans’ rights. My teenage daughter recently attended a speech in school by a young trans man. She basically shrugged the whole thing off. When I causally mentioned that that young person is permanently sterile due to the testosterone she was horrified.
As I see the trans movement playing out, it affects children and teens. A good friend of mine has a trans child.
I have so many concerns. What are the lifetime implications of taking so many hormones? Of surgery?
I have friends who don’t take the Pill because of “unnatural” hormones. I know women who are concerned about HRT. I’m so afraid of surgery that I’ve never had my ears pierced.
And we’re just supposed to be okay with young people taking massive amounts of hormones and embarking on major elective surgery? I’ve heard that women who have mastectomies can have phantom breast pain. There would seem to be risks and side effects of transitioning that would not be trivial. Teens are making decisions that could affect their health and quality of life forever.
I feel a little like this is a fad for some kids and, unlike lower back tattoos, it is going to have permanent consequences.
But it’s politically incorrect to even mention these concerns. It’s all live and let live.
149
Thank you for mentioning these concerns. I too have had many questions about this subject which, as you say, is taboo these days to bring up.
33
I appreciate you honestly sharing your concerns; they deserve a respectful response. I don't think anyone decides to change gender lightly. It's an individual decision that requires much counseling, review, physical work-ups, and often living in the new gender for a period. Teens feel gender acutely, it is natural to the transition.
The new public/press awareness maybe contributing to the sense that it's a fad, but it's certainly not like getting tatoos, walk-in/walk-out.
Trans-gender changes have been done before, so there is data about the effects of hormones, although the studies are certainly limited. By all reports, it is a deep, highly driven inner process that speaks to the pain, depression, and inner misery of being trapped in a body that does not align with the soul of your inner self, a torture replaced by a new authentic freedom and life. I think reading or listening to interviews may help you approach how each individual, gay or trans-gender, comes to understand their choice.
Many persons don't have children for personal reasons. That is a part of the decision-making of the process. New information always surprises us. How surprised many were at the wide spread assaults in work places shows we conceal our inner bruises. Discovery is painful; it takes our deepest empathy for understanding. Take your honest concern for health and fad influences and step closer to the soul and inner heart of the personal stories and witness. You may find new understanding.
39
Thank you for bringing this up. I strongly support civil rights for everyone, but my irritation at being labeled transphobic for simply questioning whether or not children should be taking hormones and having surgery would be reflected in any poll I took.
Medical ethics dictate that we don't make permanent changes to children's and teens bodies for anything other than life threatening reasons. Parental consent isn't enough, and for good reason. When I hear a parent saying that their 5 year old (born male) is a girl because they like dresses and dolls, it says more about the parent's concern for gender stereotypes than the child's identity. This willingness to surgically alter children's bodies among some parents and some doctors strongly reminds me of the sex assignment surgery done in the past to infants who didn't fit what the parent or doctor considered the established norm.
36
Far to much focus on the alphabet soup of identities. LGBTQX and on and on. Do these groups even have that much in common? And if gay is a general term for same-sex attraction, why do we need the L? Any why exactly is Bi a specific identity. Either these folks are G in which case they're already on the list or not-G in which they shouldn't be on the list. And seriously if you're an adult and don't know what gender to identify with, that's fine. But please don't inflict your confusion on the rest of us. Cut it down to G&T and you'll get a lot more acceptance.
57
Do these groups even have that much in common?
Yes they do, they are all sexual minorities.
Erasing the woman yet again, I see. The L needs to stay!!
1
Those who oppose universal human rights find other people's equality to be oppressive. Oppressive because it challenges their perceived sense of superiority and power, even though it has no meaningful impact on their daily lives. So it's of little surprise that certain groups are feeling oppressed by recent gains in LGBTQ rights, much like they feel when African American athletes kneel to demand equality.
31
While I think what you say applies to a segment of the population; you’d be well served by reading through the comments for alternative perspectives to the one you provided. Keep in mind; these are NYT readers. Just imagine how a more generalized population sample feels on the matter. That’s not to say there aren’t straight bigots out there. However, I venture to guess that any decline in support for LGBTQ is more a product of the reasons given by the many who commented on this article.
2
> LGBTQ rights
We don't need any LGBTQ whatever rights.
We just need equal human rights - for everyone.
1
I understand the author's alarm. Trump has empowered the bigots. Radical Christians think they're now going to be able to roll back all the gains made by LGBT people, including marriage. Hate crimes are on the rise. They think they're winning.
As a 40 year veteran of the fight for gay rights, I have news for them: they will fail.
46
I believe the long-term trend in this country's social attitudes will favor acceptance of the lgbtq community. But the astonishing pace of change in popular attitudes on this issue has left many people feeling disoriented and uncertain.
Resistance most likely centers among evangelicals, whose conservative interpretation of the Bible creates an obstacle to tolerance. Many other Americans may feel discomfort because they have had little contact (knowingly) with members of the lgbtq community.
The fact remains that Americans have largely abandoned their prejudice against groups whose sexual identity American law condemned until fairly recently. The King quote referenced by Ms. Boylan implies, after all, that the arc of the moral universe does not bend quickly toward justice.
14
When SCOTUS ruled, same sex marriage was illegal in 40 states, including California, which had just passed a Constitutional amendment to that effect.
At the time, there was a small minority trying to make the case that it was a Civil Rights issue and an equally small minority that was arguing on tradition, religion and morality. The overwhelming majority of the population, 80% or so, was completely indifferent to the whole issue, figuring that the domestic partnership trend would address the issue, since same sex couples were incapable of reproducing, so there were no potential children involved except for the wealthy who could make their own financial and legal arrangements.
As with the Roe v. Wade decision, leftist coastal liberals decided they could legislate social change absent the support of citizens.
When the same sex couples launched a legal attack against bakers, they put an end to any tepid support from the 80%.
2
The issue here largely stems not from an increase in hate, but from an increase in accepting ignorance. Reading through these comments I see a lot of the same points, largely based in: "gay rights took time to get here, and we should realize that transgender rights will take a lot of time too, be patient". Even worse, I see those who even self-identify along this spectrum sharing in these opinions. Just because you are no longer affected by the social discrimination anymore does not mean that you should feel as though complacency is acceptable. I'm a young gay man that has largely benefited from those before me speaking up and causing the tide to turn to what it is today. I feel it is now my personal duty to return the favor continue to speak up, to bring forth those beliefs to those who have closed their ears. I will continue having uncomfortable Thanksgiving dinners, informing my colleagues, and attempting to challenge any locker room conversation, regardless of how "hard" it may be. We should not expect decades of psychological pain, beatings, suicides, and murders as we remain silent until people "change their minds." The LGBTQ community is not the problem that needs to work itself out, but instead we are here to remind you that we exist, and that you must recognize that there are faces behind that so-called "alphabet soup." And those faces have a voice, so take a moment and actually listen to them.
41
> The LGBTQ community is not the problem that needs to work itself out, but instead we are here to remind you that we exist, and that you must recognize that there are faces behind that so-called "alphabet soup." And those faces have a voice, so take a moment and actually listen to them.
Anybody can self identify as anything he wants. I can identify as Martian King for example :) Does this mean that everybody needs to treat me as Martian King? Definitively not.
Does this give anybody right to oppress my basic, universal human rights? Certainly not.
The problem is that lot of those "social justice" people seek recognition from others and if they're not getting it, they try to force it.
But the truth is - if this is ever going to work out, everybody needs to respect other's different viewpoints.
4
I read the report. A problem with the survey is that it asks its tolerance questions as simply for LGBTQ without asking independent questions for L, G, B, T and Q as if people think of these groups as all the same.
I suspect that 2 and 3 years ago, many ordinary Americans largely equated the term LGBTQ with just lesbian and gay in their minds while more recently the awareness of T has increased dramatically when thinking of the term LGBTQ. So part of the reason for the increases in intolerance may be due to acceptance of T is strongly lagging gay and lesbian acceptance and people are thinking more about the T component than they did in the past. Maybe next time the survey could survey about the different parts of LGBTQ.
In addition, it would have been helpful for the survey to also ask about how recent court decisions regarding businesses being required to treat LGBTQ customers the same as non-LGBTQ have impacted the public's view of LGBTQ. While i can envision reasons for it improving acceptance and reasons why it hurt acceptance - these reasons don't count for anything because it is data that matters.
22
Research shows people feel less empathy towards others when dealing with their own pain, i.e. the ramifications of a crazy guy for president, or a tax code that takes away from what they need
4
If you really care about your rights (and anybody else's whether LGBTQ or Straight, etc, etc ) you better spend more time getting people to vote for the party that at least recognizes you... and I don't mean the GOP
If our entire Democracy and institutions are threatened, you don't stand a chance.
24
Hillary was opposed to same sex marriage until SCOTUS ruled. Both she and Obama were opposed when running for President in 2008.
2
Dear Jennifer,
While I always appreciate your thoughts and agree with your sentiments, I wouldn't worry one whit that some people somewhere will dislike you before they even know a thing about you. I certainly don't.
Since time began, there have been those who see people as individuals, and those who don't. Spend your precious time and energy on the former, not that latter. That is a far more effective force multiplier.
The LGBTQ community has made great progress from the dark ages when life, liberty and property could be forfeited without respect to due process and equal protection afforded every American under the US Constitution.
The Equality Act will bring the same protection against discrimination or targeted termination in employment or purposeful denial in housing that every other biological group or religious organization has under EEO laws.
But real change comes from letting your family, friends, colleagues, neighbors, schoolmates and even strangers, get to know the content of your character unblemished from the sometimes harsh world.
The change you seek starts from within and will emanate from you with ease and grace. As an enlightened person, I know you know this, but it helps to be reminded sometimes.
The noise is just that, don't let it pull you down as intended.
7
I think one may trace any backlash regarding LGBT rights to the T portion of the acronym. Parents of young children and teens, by and large, do not want their children taught that their gender is a choice or is fluid. In other words, they tend to feel that it's fine if someone else's child is like that but they do not want any push toward their child being like that.
Between mandates of full transgender acceptance at schools and the relentless media push (including, especially, in the NYT) for unquestioning acceptance and praise for transgenderism, it begins to come off as proselytizing. Many even self described tolerant individuals can't get on board with that. Add in the push to put transwomen on college sports teams, thus taking spots from biological women, and acceptance morphs to resentment.
I was recently talking with an African American lesbian mom at my child's uber-tolerant high school and she told me that she had pulled her daughter out of the school's drama class because of the very vocal transgender and gender fluid kids in there. She said, "I've always thought of myself as very progressive but I can't go there and I don't want them influencing my child." She didn't realize that one of the kids she was gesturing toward was my child and, ironically, I would not call myself progressive at all. Awkward.
93
"Parents of young children and teens, by and large, do not want their children taught that their gender is a choice"
This proves the writer - and so many others - have no idea what they are speaking of when they refer to a person's identity as a choice. And thus all the assertions, assumptions, and conclusions that follow are built on error.
2
Agreed. I have commented and replied already on this column but have more to say which the character limit does not allow.
I would like to add to my other comments that I am all for transgender rights to fair employment opportunities, housing, healthcare, etc. but when trans-activists are campaigning to lower the minimum age of these dangerous treatments to include younger and younger children, and when laws are being put in place to prosecute parents who balk at approving these dangerous treatments for their children, I can certainly understand why people are becoming less supportive of the "T" in the LGBT community.
Fully intact males (in other words, they have not undergone any genital surgery) who "feel" they are women are taking women's places in sports and demanding to undress and shower with women, and taking up spaces in women's domestic violence shelters, and taking spots earmarked for women in education and politics. This has also have dampened my enthusiasm any LGB organization with a "T" attached to it. In my humble opinion, if the LGB was smart, they would ask the T to break off and start their own organizations.
5
How did she respond when you presented her with the news that she had been talking about your child? Do drop the other shoe, please.
1
Jennifer s writing is always, terse informed & inspiring. Working under the radar &
in discovered dramatics spaces are units such as The Playwrights Sanctuary
(endorsed by the late legendary Edward Albee & inspired by the encouragement of Tennessee Williams). Dr. Larry Myers-- late of St. John s University-- has made this a tri-costal theater foundation. Initially to create plays about LGBTQIA history to be performed n Found Theater Spaces. A new permutation of "#Ialso" was ignited in Conservative Arizona. Maybe as much as #me too & "time s up" it is more than up for persecuted LGBTQIA. Actions speak louder than just words--Myers was on hand at the Supreme Court cake melee as well as the daca demonstration in Dc & uptown at #me too demonstration at Trump Hotel. Mediation, meditation, poetry can heal & save lives.
1
The first couple of years after my stepson became a vegan, it made cooking for Thanksgiving dinner kind of novel. Now I dread the extra work.
70
My cat's name is Mittens. What's your point, Mr. Doe?
Is there a reason he can't contribute a vegan dish or two? If he's been a vegan several years odds are he is old enough to cook.
"Stepson, this year you are in charge of salad, cranberry sauce, (both usually vegan dishes) and whatever vegan dishes you want to bring"
If for some reason you want to do everything, Whole Foods sells vegan roasts that you just stick in the oven and heat. They come with sauce and everything. Or if he's the only one who will eat it, buy some Tofurkey or other brand slices and serve it to him with cranberry relish and tell him to bring vegan stuffing.
"Less tolerant"? When was America ever tolerant? Read JAL's comment to get the true picture of American "tolerance."
7
There is a difference between tolerating the idiosyncrasies of one's neighbors and being forced to embrace and admire them or being forced to bake a cake for their wedding.
Where is the tolerance of the "community" for people who don't care and don't want to know about other people's sexual preferences?
3
When did Americans ever have much "knowledge" of geography?
The ~25 countries (out of ~200) to which these comments invariably compare us invidiously contain <10% of the human population. The spoonful of sugar your medicine is missing is any trace of restraint in your invective against the country from which you failed, after all, to emigrate to Canada. or Uganda. or is Uganda one of those...how shall we put it...?
When was America ever thin? Voters love sugar.
Certainly, Trump's emergence has lead a lot of people to be more vocal, but they are the minority. Unfortunately that minority and some people susceptible to propaganda elected a loud mouth moron. We should also understand that religion believes your purpose is to produce more members for the cult. Corporations and their servants in congress and the Whitehouse agree that we should have population growth. If your LGBTQ then you aren't producing for the masters. Your just not the right kind of slave.
10
"Minority"? I hardly think so. The Republican Party control the White House, both houses of Congress, the Supreme Court and the US Military, as well as the majority of state legislatures and state governorships. The GOP don't even try to make a secret of their animus against their LGBT fellow Americans and have steadfastly opposed every LGBT rights ordinance in American history, including DADT repeal, same-sex marriage, and all anti-discrimination measures. And who put them there? US voters.
Currently, the Republican Party can therefore be said to reflect American values, by virtue of the fact that America has handed them the governance of the country.
17
There is a difference between being a majority and having control. See: gerrymandering.
Democrats are in denial. They think their views reflect the majority. They also think they are the party of the smart and educated. They do not comprehend that the majority of the voters with a college degree voted for Trump and the majority who lack a high school diploma voted for Hillary.
They also do not recognize that most of their core supporters are indifferent to the tribulations faces by same sex couples in getting a wedding cake, since they are trying to get housing, jobs and other essentials while the Democrats are distracting the population with insignificant "Civil Rights."
2
We've lived long enough to know that after a leap of progress comes the backlash, like clockwork. It coincides with last year's backlash to Obama generally. The wheel of fortune keeps turning, turning, turning, according to the late great Kay Starr.
That said, although I'm not going to heap scorn on identify politics, it's true that a culture wants to be monolithic, and I think there is a feeling abroad that we've become especially balkanized. I would never fly a rainbow flag on my house. Our "identity" isn't a secret, but it's not the most important thing about me, either. With a sense of splintering and fracture pervading the air right now, we might do better emphasizing what we share, even when we might have to look hard to find those things. Time and chance don't always give us that opportunity, but there are times when we just have to ride it out.
24
Cultures do not want to be monolithic or anything else. Personification of abstract concepts always lead fallacies in logic. It's like saying that Mother Nature wants all species to survive.
Some people want the "culture" of the United States to be "monolithic": heterosexual, white, Christian (mostly Protestant), patriarchal, hierarchical, and valuing people on the basis of wealth or inherited privilege.
This desire is directly opposed to the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, and specifically by the Fourteenth Amendment adopted after the Civil War but ignored and deformed for 100 years until the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s. So-called "identity politics," a propaganda slogan invented by those who want the monolith described above, is simply an attempt to have all of us entitled to the same treatment before the law without systemic bias and prejudice. When it asks for more than that it pushes too far.
I agree that we need to seek common ground but that common ground must start with recognition of our reciprocal rights and duties and some consensus about facts demonstrated by scientific inquiry.
1
In "The Honor Code: How Moral Revolutions Happen," Kwame Anthony Appiah (the current Ethicist) documents some cases in which a particular attitude comes to be regarded as shameful, and it is out of dread of that shame that people with an attitude now found to be unacceptable will be moved to change. And as JF Boylan rightly points out, the shame associated with homophobia has come under attack since the ascent of Donald Trump.
Actually, full acceptance of LGBTQ people will never be quite secure, even in a progressive society, so long as the cisgender, opposite-sex-oriented majority believe their own sexual identity depends on proclaiming their heteronormality. They can always enhance their eligibility and prestige by belittling or mocking or condemning LGBTQ people.
5
I think it all goes to the backlash against the science deniers. They refuse to believe that there are only males and females. While gays and lesbians rightly know what sex they are, they are drawn to their own sex. The cry of the deniers is that you can change your sex to assuage the mental difficulties they feel. All the surgery, medication and counseling in the word will, however, not change the science. Call themselves what they will, most people will consider them what they are. Legislation will not change a muddled mind, but most women and men will show compassion and sympathy.
60
There are plenty of people with chromosomes that are not traditionally male or female. What does your science say to that?
It is, of course, easy and quite politic to blame Donald Trump for every real or perceived American malady. But it might be worth considering the possibility that the American people are becoming weary of the 24/7 "resistance" and the incessant drumbeat of whining grievance being shouted from every corner of the progressive movement.
Most Americans have no quibble with gay marriage or people loving who they want to love, and those rights have been won. Now go ahead and live your lives. Does every aspect of human experience now need to be dissected to determine its effect on every group and their unique sensitivities? Enough!
I used to enjoy reading four newspaper each day, watching some evening news shows and getting my sports update on ESPN. Newspapers now contain very little factual reporting, devoting most of their linage to whining and moaning about privilege, inequality and every other rant of the progressive movement. Look at the content on todays editorial page. Even ESPN is now more about politics and controversy than dribbling, tackling and scoring.
People are just growing tired of it, and that weariness will be reflected in public attitudes and polls that measure them.
93
I will premise this by saying I have a family member who is transgender. I do not come to this issue with hate or ignorance.
Homosexuals should never have linked their fate to transgenders. And yes, I know there was a lot of debate within the gay community when this issue was being decided. However, the decision was wrong on several fronts.
The published data on the number of individuals who believe they are of the other sex, transition, and then decide to go back is extremely high. Let's face it, self-described homosexuals - in general - do not "transition" to heterosexuality and back again.
Many parents (like myself) do not approve of having public education system preaching to their children that their sex is fluid and they can live/act/be the other sex if they so desire. This is wrong and deep down everyone knows it.
There are legitimate cases of gender dysphoria that need to be addressed and those people protected. However, in the haste to do so it has become clear there is an effort to "convert" all children to the idea that their gender is indeed fluid, instead of simply outlining there are cases where for biological, environmental and other reasons transitioning is the best solution and indeed bathrooms are for whoever needs them - no matter their sex.
Beginning with Caitlyn Jenner, there is a media campaign pushing this. It is turning people off like me who agree with homosexuals rights, but see the current effort with transgender activism as misguided.
180
With some parents, few in number but get all the publicity, having a 6-7 year old child be transgender is the new fashion accessory. With the web sites, tv interviews, and (gods help us) their own reality show.
Children experiment. A boy might play with dolls and like to dress up in a dress but that does NOT mean they are transgender. The next week they could go back the way they were before. I did when I was that age and then forgot about it. At that age it doesn't mean anything.
Parents should let their child do what they want and not freak out. They also shouldn't automatically assume that this what the child wants for the rest of their life. With the drugs, surgery, etc following. Encourage them to be themselves however they want to be. If they switch back and forth and are confused maybe find therapist who can help guide them but not say 'this is what you HAVE to be'.
Let them be who they are but never push or decide for them.
6
The Danish study has been thoroughly debunked but is still used by McHugh and others of his ilk. A recent study out of Australia shows that only 4% of youth detransition. Hardly extremely high.
Oh... my...goodness. Wow. I dunno about "hate", but "ignorance"? yes, indeed.
No, um "homosexuals" did no "link" our fate. But rather we accept the concept that all of us are human beings and should be treated equally. There was no "debate", it wasn't like we voted on anything or ratified anything. We are happy to expand the umbrella. One day we will not even need the LGBTQ thing. For one day we will overcome hate and ignorance. Until then, we are proud to be inclusive.
And you must site any evidence that "public education systems preach to their children that their sex is fluid and they can live/act/be the other sex if they so desire.". You literally can NOT. The only think you might be able to give real examples of is teachers "preaching" about respecting others and for tolerance. And that's a really good thing if they do. We need lots of that.
There is no such thing as "homosexuals (sic) rights" or "transgender activism". You seem confused that gay folks and transgender folks merely want the same rights and protections as everyone else. Being Canadian, you can be proud that you have that. Thanks for your concern about us down here in the U.S.
2
How about this as an alternate title:
"Is America Growing More Annoyed at the Relentless Selfishness of the Self-Centered T Community?"
188
Have you been negatively affected in any way by the incremental recognition that trans folks are deserving of basic safety and dignity?
3
Really?
I'd be a little self-centered too if my chances of getting killed for expressing my sexual identity made be more likely to be killed or assaulted.
4
How about: "Is America unwilling to offer basic human kindness and decency and respect to everyone?"
How on earth is the desire for trans women of color to NOT BE MURDERED, or for anyone anywhere under the LGBT umbrella to live their lives (which doesn't keep anyone else from living their life as a straight cis person if that's what feels right to them) something to be condemned?
1
Joseph and JAL, I agree with both of you Your points hit the head on the nail.
Some feel, once the marriage thing became legal; now it's normal life now as with everyone else; no one cares, no one will pay you any attention; pay your taxes and keep your head above water like the rest of us.
The TRANSGENDER, LGBTQ "bullying" has become an issue. Heterosexual Men(any race) should not be vilified in the media if they choose a woman who was birthed by her mother to be a woman, or they indicate they are not interested in TRANSGENDER women. Nothing wrong with that. It does not make anyone this or that; it's just fact. Heterosexual seems to be taboo; and yes, that will cause folk to let the truth be know.
There is life and there is what is written about life. If what was written was the actual truth, we would not be reading these articles which do not even attempt to address the problem.
38
You have imaginary enemies, Georgist. Heterosexual will never be taboo, and no one will bully you if you choose not to date transgender women.
"the marriage thing" doesn't help your argument, either.
As far as trump goes I think coincidence is being mistaken for cause.
The main reason for the ABC population to start to view the LGBT etc. world negatively is the constant and increasing crescendo of entitled demands that 100,000 years of preceding custom and practice is expected to be dumped in a 100 months flat.
This is felt very visibly when the screaming and violent hoards try to prevent free speech ...even from the likes of Milo and Blair White who are very much LGBT etc. , let alone Shapiro who is very not!
The intolerance being displayed by the mob is being met with, quelle surprise!, increased intolerance...
As for the cake issue, the right to refuse to do business with anybody they wish to is a basic right.
It may offend but it is their business, their decision.
Much like the C16 controversy in Canada (I thought the Canuks had more bloody sense..), forcing government words & deeds upon someone is a dangerous first step in a treacherous journey, however much it offends.
The good news is there is pretty certainly someone else in the cake business who will be happy to do business.
40
I could never understand why someone would want a cake or any food from someone who does not enjoy serving that food item to her; trust a biased cook; no thanks.
3
My suspicion is that people sometimes give answers to questions posed by pollsters which allow the respondent to avoid being judged by the pollster as a bigot or a throwback, and all Trump's win did was to allow individuals who, in fact, were never comfortable with certain elements of the LGBTQ population to feel unencumbered in expressing their discomfort or disapproval (apparently all lumped in together under the LGBTQ umbrella). Not all of this has to do with the Trump administration's specific positions on elements of the LGBTQ population; rather, a lot of it, I think, has to do with Trump's "let it all hang out" mentality. It's sort of like seeing one's father cuss when your mother has told you that you shouldn't. Having seen your father curse, you feel it is OK--just not around your mother, of course. And then seeing your father cuss leads you to think that there are other norms that can be broken without any real negative sanction.
I know people who would never verbalize their disapproval of some groups regarded as being included in the LGBTQ community, but do indeed disapprove. It is the hidden enemy who is most dangerous, not the one who gives away his position.
8
What LGBTQ 'community'? Some L's and G's want nothing to do with B's. Lots of L's want nothing to do with T's.
1
If people have "hate in their hearts"...the problem is that hate, not that Trump has or hasn't given them an excuse to put it out in the open.
I think this article is doing a bit of disservice when it tries to focus things overwhelmingly on Trump. It starts to get to the truth near the end but then backs off in favor of some hand-wringing about privilege and how the world isn't how we want it to be. No kidding - but if we aren't happy with the world as it is, let's do something about it.
Also, "having hate in your heart" isn't the same as "feeling uncomfortable." Being uncomfortable with things we aren't familiar with is deeply human. The response to someone feeling uncomfortable around LGBT people is not to sneer at them or call them a bigot but to reach out to them and turn their discomfort to comfort through outreach.
12
How about asking those of us who are in the LGBT community? Yes, of course Trump is intolerant of our community. He is intolerant of anyone who isn't male, rich, fat, and white. But, our community looks out for all disenfranchised communities--unlike Trump's debased base, of whom they are all self-serving and selfish. Trump will not make it to the midterms, and if he does by some miracle, we will take the House and Senate and remove him ourselves. Justice will be served.
14
Many potential reasons for this, including a statistical margin of error, greater license felt among bigots to fly their flag and not provide socially desirable responses to surveys, and higher non-response when using land line based telephone interviewing that makes it more difficult to reach 'generation cell', who are younger and have more tolerant attitudes. Just look at the difference in attitudes among millennials and the great gen'. A great deal of change has occurred very quickly.
4
There is no such thing as "L.G.B.T.Q. Rights."
We are talking about EQUAL RIGHTS and EQUAL PROTECTION under the U.S. Constitution and the law.
We are not talking about some "special" rights.
53
Good. Then LGBT people deserve exactly the same rights as you: total equality and no discrimination whatsoever in employment, housing, taxes, marriage laws, adoption, family leave, Social Security, business, and everything else. And you have to make us a wedding cake if we want one. And if we want to hold hands in public we can do it without getting beaten up. And we can raise our children without your children bullying them. Thanks for solving this issue.
6
Really? Men who identify as women are asking for rights that go above and beyond the rights of other men. They are demanding the right to take scholarships, sports, and funding earmarked for women, invade women's spaces, replace them in sports, etc. That is not equal rights. That is "special" rights that other males do not have. And yeah, it affects women negatively.
60
This is certainly troubling, but it was also entirely predictable given what we know about patterns of social acceptance and intolerance for racial and ethnic minorities. When there are just a few people who are "different," they aren't perceived as much of a threat to the majority and the existing social order. As a group grows in numbers, becomes more visible, and/or makes political gains, there's often a backlash.
This phenomenon regularly plays out in communities across the U.S. when the racial/ethnic composition of an area undergoes rapid change. We also saw it after the election of President Obama--the number of white militia/paramilitary groups increased markedly.
9
Back in the 1960’s, when I was depressed over something, my father tried to cheer me up by pointing out that as a white Anglo Saxon Protestant male, a world of opportunities was open to me. And my father was a liberal Democrat. Had L.G.B.T.Q. Rights been on his radar back then, he would, I am sure, have included “straight” before “male”. In any case, as I reach the autumn of my life, I have some hope that I will live to see a time when humans can live together with the firm belief that being a decent person is one of the more important qualities we consider and that the grab bag of religion, ethnicity, sexual preference and lifestyles are truly seen as personal traits or personal choices without others having to pass judgement.
In this moment, we need a human solution to our problems and I see the root of that solution to be a large influx of people into politics; yes, women should have equality with men in terms of both the number and the quality of political positions, but I am also looking to scientists and educated people of all disciplines, both men and women, to run for office. That is what I believe will change our world.
16
The religious, christian crusaders are making another come back. And hey, if Trump can stir wrong races and religions into topics for public hatred, then shouldn't people be worried about their children and themselves falling into the L.G.B.T.Q. zone. But these christian crusaders use those who are different from them to halt their own self examination, and to prove that their made-up reality is real - that is to say: "I am a christian and therefore I am not one of those". Sad to say, reality is falling away in this country at an ever increasing level.
7
I can not speak for "the public" but I am getting tired of everyone's rights to whatever they think are their rights. The politics of the "ruling party" govern. There is no discussion. Pros and cons are not debated. Pandering is rampant. Without these essentials of debate, whether or not I agree with the latest fiat, yes I am less tolerant.
31
"The politics of the "ruling party" govern. There is no discussion. "
Ahh... Authoritarianism that is the antipathy of our government and constitution.
As long as the evangelical Christian lobby is around (and it seems to be getting a lot of traction with the Trump administration), the LGBTQ community is at great risk of seeing rollbacks in hard-won rights. I fully expect to see a concerted effort to roll back same sex marriage, and as Trump whittles away at the Federal judiciary with appointments of extremely conservative and even unqualified individuals to the bench, don't be surprised if Obergefell v. Hodges is reversed and bakers, florists, caterers and even medical personnel end up with the right to deny service to LGBTQ people by claiming that to do so violates their religious beliefs.
4
Less tolerant? More like identity politics is causing walls rather than bridges to be built.
Not to mention even those of us fully supportive of LGBTQ ( lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, questioning, queer ) find ourselves wondering what's identity is next? Like where is the gender neutral, or gender fluid initial in the LGBTQ label?
Wish we could simply be concerned about human rights for every one and not allow labels be they gender, race, religion, ethnic origin, body type or sexual identity to define us.
45
That's a question that will have to be answered internally, although I can tell you that from this Canadian's perspective an influential (according to your electoral map, anyway) percentage of your population seems to be pedaling backwards desperately. I hope it isn't the last gasp of their generation (boomers) trying to reassert their control on society - you know, when men were men etcetera - but...
57
From this American-born-and-bred Canadian's perspective, you SHOULD hope it is the last gasp of a dying generation. The fact is that America is not growing less tolerant on LGBTQ or race or gender issues, it's just that the people who used to refrain from asserting their bigotry no longer feel the need to do that. Their intolerance has been endorsed at the highest level - unlike in Canada where the leaders of every party have come out forcefully against these things. That's why it's easy to live here and impossible to live there.
2
It occurs to me that 3% of people who didn't really support LBGTQ rights might have just been lying on the survey before, and now they feel empowered to tell the truth. It may be that support hasn't declined, but we have a better idea of what it is. The next survey will be critical to knowing what the real answer is...a change in actual support, or just a change in people's willingness to admit to their prejudices.
5
I think commenter Joseph's phrase "social justice fatigue" actually sums up a lot of things nicely. I'm a big supporter of equality for all. But the level of militancy and outrage at every perceived slight is wearying. We have so many political problems, and the LGBT issue has been at the forefront for so long, I think many people are ready to simply think the problem is solved enough to move toward other issues. While it clearly isn't "solved", there is no denying a LOT of progress has been made, and a trend toward "normalcy" and away from "militancy" might just be the thing that keeps progress going.
45
Please have Boylan write a column once or twice a week.
10
You must be kidding.
4
"Week by week, tweet by tweet, Mr. Trump has normalized all of our worst impulses " Yes he has. He has made it okay to be disrespectful to anyone who is different in any way, shape, or form. He has normalized crass, crude, rude, and socially unacceptable behavior to a degree that was once unbelievable. Before he was president, Trump was known to be crass, rude, and crude. Yet none of that stopped people from voting him into office. It didn't prevent the GOP from supporting him and now, covering for him in order to remain in power themselves.
Trump is not a Christian. He is not a scholar. He is not polite, thoughtful, or truly concerned about anyone but himself. He is cruel, verbally and probably physically even if we haven't seen it there are indications that he has been. What saddens me is how my own instincts to remain hidden have been proven correct. It also saddens me to continue to read comments from people who do not understand that LGBTQ people are not asking for special treatment; we're asking for equal treatment that we cannot take for granted unless laws are put in place guaranteeing it. No one should be fired or discriminated against, or murdered, or have other crimes committed against their person because of their sexual orientation. It's part of being human. And in the end, aren't all of us human beings?
26
Jennifer for president in 2020!
2
When Caitlyn Jenner won the ESPY in favor of cancer victim Lauren Hill, I personally had more than enough. It had nothing to do with Donald Trump.
104
Ms. Boylen: You may be confusing cause with effect. Mr. Trump may not be the cause of downward tilt in LGBT acceptance but rather, his election may be a reflection of it. But Trump aside, what you are probably seeing is an increase in CANDOR arising as a consequence of "social justice fatigue." Let's face it: Most people would prefer that their child be heterosexual as opposed to homosexual, and not simply because society makes it harder to be homosexual. Rather, there is an innate discomfort with homosexual relationships that inheres in a high fraction of the heterosexual population. Yes, straight people know what they are supposed to say when confronted with survey questions, but that isn't necessarily what they feel or believe, and what most people feel (regardless of what they say) is that they would rather that their child be straight than gay (or transgender).
66
"they would rather that their child be straight than gay"
How do you know that? Isn't your primary instinct to be entirely supportive of your children, whoever they are?
5
"Candor"? No, no decent parent cares what their child's sexuality is any more than they upset if their child dates outside their race. You have decided that most of us who say we are fine with it are lying?! That's just sad projection on your part.
5
"Rather, there is an innate discomfort with homosexual relationships that inheres in a high fraction of the heterosexual population."
Innate. INNATE.
You've got to be taught / to be afraid / of people whose skin / is a diff'rent shade...
While I'm no expert on the Harris poll in question - there's generally a plus/minus of 2 or 3 percent on most polls. So things may not actually have gotten worse.
While the climate has undeniably changed in terms of what's expressed politically, I doubt that's shifting attitudes that much. I'd also differentiate between discomfort which from you article seemed to be the language in the poll and dislike.
As LGBT has come to be a bigger tent encompassing an ever widening range of gender and sexual norms, it's less clear to straight, cisgendered people like myself how to express tolerance and support. Much like going to a fancy dinner party and then trying to remember which fork to use or what to do with your napkin when you get up, interactions with an ever broader range of people can be confusing and stressful. We want to be allies, but we don't want to seem cheesily woke. It's a natural response to feel discomfort in social situations that make you feel unsure of how to behave or how to address someone who may not fit a clear gender norm, but it's not you - it's us.
Trust the arc of the universe.
29
We could just simply be overwhelmed with the 'alphabet soup' of identifying sub-groups. It keeps getting longer and no longer do I know what they all mean or fully represent. The segmentation continues.
108
For most of us understanding or unraveling the alphabet soup is not the point. What we should be doing is extending our understanding and acceptance toward those who are "different". In the end we are all human beings and deserving of respect.
4
I think people are getting tired of "protected class". There seems to be no end of groups that want to be treated equal yet differently through special protection. IN all cases the law should apply to all groups. This weariness extends to those clamoring for religious exemption protection as well. An assault on a LTGB person should be not different than assault on a straight person. A claim for religious exempt should require you to forego federal funding for your college or hospital. The ire needs to be directed at prosecutors for not pressing charges and getting convictions. We can't be a country of laws when everyone is treated differently by the group they identify with.
50
Gays are not a "protected" class. Laws against discrimination based on sexual orientation apply equally to gays and straights, as do hate crime laws. Attacking a heterosexual BECAUSE he or she is straight is also a hate crime.
11
Wrong. In many states, it is now a hate crime to attack a homosexual; the hate crime designation adds to the penalties imposed for the crime.
However, despite a culture of misogyny and discrimination against women, crimes against women are not designated or covered as hate crimes. So, the reality is that gays and lesbians in some ways have more legal protection than women.
3
Just like with the " white supremacy " folks, Trump and his Collaborators have brought the Haters out of THEIR closets. After all, their entire ethos is hating Someone, at all times, for any reason. Let's help them see the error of their ways. November is getting closer. Please get ready, enlist you allies, it's NOT too early to start. Seriously.
17
Maybe its the over-the-top parade debauchery? Maybe its the seemingly endless addition of letters to the end of LGBT? Maybe is the gender identity training seen in schools as early as kindergarten?
92
Maybe it has more to do with your own attitudes and discomfort.
9
Or maybe, just maybe straight people are mostly safe, comfortable and clueless and need constant reminders to simply leave queer people alone. You know, like you want to be not discriminated against. I apologize for your queer fatigue RP, must be tough to have to live compassion for others not exactly like you.
4
Maybe it has to do with your overt homo and transphobia.
3
I really think that what is causing the problem is the haste and alacrity with which the LGBT community expects the public to accept not gay and lesbian rights, but to accept the rights of transgender people. Transgenderism is still such a misunderstood topic, and so maligned, that there is a backlash against the efforts of equal rights proponents. The idea that you can change genders is a difficult one to accept, even for someone who stands behind the rights of all people to be treated equally. In a way, the transgender community needs to give the straight community as much patience, understanding, and acceptance for which it is asking.
66
Transgender people, just like gays, lesbians, and bi-sexuals, are not asking for special rights. They are asking for the same rights that straight white heterosexual people take for granted and sometimes seem to think are waived if the person in front of them is black, Asian, female, handicapped, etc.
As for asking for patience, how much patience should they exhibit? Should they patient when they are being killed for being transgender? Should they be patient when they are being assaulted for the same reason? This is the same argument that has been dragged out when it comes to handicapped people, African Americans, Asians, Jews, etc. It doesn't wash any longer. They aren't asking for special rights or anything out of the ordinary. They are asking to be treated like human beings. That shouldn't be so hard to do. Their sex lives and how they decide to change their physical gender to match their psychological gender are really none of our business.
17
You're right. We (the LBGT community) should ask for more patience from the straight community to be treated like human beings.
1
Rob - the problem is that this isn’t simply a matter of mutual understanding. People are committing violence and discrimination against them. If trans folk had the legal protections they need, there might be more room for mutual understanding.
7
Even in blue Massachusetts, the protections for trans folks that were legislatively approved last year are sadly on the ballot for a potential roll-back this November. I am sickened by this - who is hurt by laws that protect trans people?
For NYT readers from Massachusetts - vote NO to maintain trans protections!
18
Cousy...religious bigots are deeply offended when all of 'God's children' gain equal protection under the law.
6
To answer your question: Women are hurt by laws that replace sex legally with the nebulous notion of "gender identity."
1
I'll tell you who gets hurt. Women and girls. We are now told that men are women. Which they are not. Women are adult human females. We're also told that we have to give up our rights to privacy to accommodate the delusions of a bunch of mostly straight heterosexual men. Lesbians are being a vilified and attacked by the trans Community for not wanting to accept them as lesbians. They are not lesbians! These are biological men.
When women's scholarships, sports opportunities, at cetera are given away to males, this hurts women and girls. Obviously, you don't care about that. But a lot of us do. Passionately.
6
No we are not lees tolerant on L.G.B.T.Q.
5
Most Americans are very comfortable with homosexuality. It's about who someone is attracted to, and it is a simple provable fact that if you are homosexual, you ARE attracted to the same sex, it is not a mental illness.
But they are not so comfortable with transsexuality. Many are not yet convinced that as someone born a man, you can be a woman, anymore than you can be Napoleon, or be a cat ("otherkin").
140
I'm transgender, born this way. Here's my plan: you take years, no decades, as you did post Stonewall and debate what YOU believe I should get. I'm so thrilled for your power! I so want you to be comfortable and if it means I must have no rights, limited rights, be beaten to death, well, so it goes. La di da.
6
I find this incredibly mysterious. It is self-evidently obvious that some people are born with mixed genitalia; the human reproductive system in incredibly complex; we know that all sorts of changes occur, or fail to occur, in the process of fetal development for every system of then body, but somehow, the idea that you could get genitalia matching one sex, but not matching the brain, is somehow a birth effect that we just can't imagine to be true?
7
They, or you, need not be "convinced", Amanda, as no one is looking for their, or your, approval. The want equal protection under the law and access to the same rights you have. They want to live their lives openly and without the fear of harm. Like everyone else. No more, no less. Why is that a difficult concept to grasp?
1
Like you said, not a big surprise, the whole "Make America Great" theme is about returning America, not to a future where the economy shares its blessings on the working and middle class, but rather a past where (in the minds of Trump supporters) economic blessings was tied to an America that was dominantly white, straight, and male, and where to quote Archie Bunker "Girls were girls and men were men". For all the talk that Trump's popularity is about his supposed populism economically, the reality is most of his supporters support him because he is making it okay again to openly hate those who are different, and worse, is using the malignant hand of religion and religious freedom to justify this. By claiming that 'religious freedom' is about using religion to justify bigotry and discrimination, he is feeding this, while trying to find a constitutional reason to make hate popular again. It is very similar to claiming a right to 'freedom of association" to justify Jim Crow.
There is little to no difference between what Trump is doing with what Hitler did in the 1930's, hate towards those "not Aryan, Not German" was centered around identity, Jews, Gypsies, gays, socialists, liberals, non whites, intellectuals, were all raged against, and more importantly, emboldened the working class and middle class Germans to hate others in ways that wasn't socially acceptable. Trump is no Hitler, but the methods are very much the same, and sadly as with Hitler, those who should yell, dont
33
I disagree; in the 90's things were good for most people if they were hard-working; Americans were working, owned property, cars, sent children to college; White Men may have made more than the rest of us; but everyone was doing a hell of a lot better!
5
This article traces recent developments directly back to their source. The Trump administration throws a constant supply of bigoted chum into our societal waters and it should come as no surprise to find predators in tow. Though I can never truly experience what those in the LGBTQ are feeling, it is easy to see the patterns of bias expanding outward from the White House.
The DOJ, for instance, is actively advocating on behalf of employers who wish to fire their LGBTQ employees for the specifically for being LGBTQ. The legal argument is made on statutory grounds, but Trump's decision to insert himself into a case specifically to assure employers they may discriminate at will is a clear expression of policy preferences. Trump is NOT, for instance, insisting that Congress extend employment protections to the LGBTQ community to avoid injustice. Instead, he sends Sessions to point out to bigots everywhere how they may ACHIEVE injustice in the workplace via legal loopholes.
Also, what are we to make of Trump's highly disrespectful TWITTER announcement that he, as commander-in-chief, views the service of transgender people as a burden to the nation and that such service will no longer be accepted (ending with his sarcastic "Thank you."). If not for our nation's more sensible generals, Trump's policy in this regard would have shamed our country. As it is, the commander-in-chief has expressed contempt for members of his own armed services (#MAGA).
And the GOP nods along.
21
There are three problems that I can identify. The first of these is that Trump has given legitimacy to a number of hate group leaders. Trump and these folks are wed to zero-sum analyses. If LGBT people's rights are advancing then Christians are losing something. Therefore they denigrate LGBT people.
The second influencer is the Supreme Court which agreed to hear Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado. When Scalia was still among the living, the Court refused to hear a very similar case: Elane Photography v. Willock. The existence of this case case has caused conservative Christians to suit up for battle. Call me a cynic but they are making a great deal of noise about this case to raise money. The concentrated message is that they require a right to discriminate against people they disapprove of. The disapproval part of that equation gets most of the attention.
The third element is the Catholic Church. They have devoted substantial energy to pushing against transgender accommodations that school kids so desperately need. The Church vigorously opposes the science regarding pediatric gender dysphoria and is intent on perpetrating myths about transgender people. They were able to get a predominantly conservative Catholic site with a pretentious blog to publish an editorial masquerading as genuine research. Needless to say it was not peer reviewed.
Having said that, I am optimistic for the future. I think that the line will trend up again very soon.
22
Catholic Church works so hard against gays because so very, very many of its priests, well... you know.... it's a bit of a boys club isn't it... self hatred must be so frightening. Look at yourselves guys in the mirror each morning and maybe you can pray it away... lol
2
i wonder about the very young when presented with the possibilities of amutating sexual identity at an age when a momentary need, desire, whim, may seem like the end of the world as we know it should that inclination not be embodied. especially when surgery is involved. i have been told that very large numbers of just barely pubescent children are embracing transgender realities as their 'right', but how on earth can they know this in many, if not all, cases? Why should we as adults not provide areas on the unknown adult world beside sexuality as a desire to be readily satiated. slow down, one implores you, and just live a human life, a moderate life, an exciting life, and forget about it for a while, anyway.
45
Kate, no child is given gender affirming surgery -- Ever. It's not done for very good reasons.
Some children who initially desire to be out as the gender that doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth decide to switch back, many do not.
No child or teen starts on hormone replacement therapy until the late teens and that's after a time with therapists and doctors. They are however given puberty blockers which keep them from gaining secondary sex characteristics which is a huge benefit. If the teen decides to switch to identifying as the sex they were assigned at birth they are taken off those and puberty as that sex proceeds normally, just at a later age. If the child does not do so they get to start HRT in their latter teens.
Only at 18 or older basically does any surgery happen and that's after going through the standard pre-surgery steps to be authorized by a surgeon. Most, if not all, follow WPATH guidelines which call for things such as two letters from therapists, one of which must have a phd.
For those who start living as their self identified gender (opposite of the one they are assigned at birth) at a latter age or as an adult one of the requirements is being "full time" for a year minimum.
There is absolutely no good reason to not a allow a child or teen to live as the gender they identify as.
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I still believe that things are getting better. It is true that those inclined to hate have felt permission to be openly violent and discriminatory during the last year. Trans women have borne the brunt. Only recently have I come to understand the very different experiences of male-to-female people versus the other way around. It is a vile form of misogyny.
But many folks are becoming more tolerant. I have seen this first hand in my family and in my community. Schools in the Boston area are quite welcoming of trans students, but that might be a regional phenomenon. Please God, may this continue.
6
Cousy....it's not up to 'God' to make things better...it's up to us.
'God' just clouds the picture.
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Oh dear. It turns out that the general public, who historically tend to give the answers that they think people around them want to hear, have started to backtrack on the fake tolerance they espoused while press and politicians flew the rainbow flag.
Reality check. Change. Happens. Slowly. Like decades, or maybe even centuries.
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Less tolerant? Perhaps. But what I think is really going on is that those who are intolerant are making it more part of their own identity. They are thus willing to be more open about their feelings. This is bad in the short term, but in the long term they will be passed by.
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As a gay man, I have little in common with the T and don't even know what to make of the Q. The B has never really even been a part of this movement. Are there any? It's not hard to imagine that this drop is a reaction to moving from gay and lesbian rights to including ever more fringe groups. It will take time for these folks to be assimilated. Be patient.
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B here! We most definitely exist and in much larger numbers than you might think. The problem is that people have a tendency to erase or misunderstand our identities, so we can sometimes seem invisible. When we date people of the same gender, we're labeled gay. When we date people of a different gender we're labeled straight. We can't seem to win either way.
Your assumption that we haven't been a part of the LGBT rights movement is sadly mistaken, but I'd love to help educate you. I'd start by reading up on bi history and our contributions to the movement here on binet: http://www.binetusa.org/bi-history
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Every time someone mentions "the LBTQ community", I cringe- there is no such thing. I know that in the lesbian community, there has been movement towards "get the L out" and "drop the T", as trans people's demands are often at odds with what lesbians (and other women) want. Yet all these disparate groups are constantly being lumped together.
I think you are correct that there is a certain amount of push back that is falling on gays and lesbians.
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Way to be supportive of our community.
3
I'd hypothesize that it is not the case that an increasing number of people are becoming intolerant of LGBTQ people/rights but that, instead, more of the same people who already were intolerant are becoming comfortable now publicly broadcasting their intolerance. I'd further hypothesize this is closely related to the normalization by some of Trump's overt racism, misogyny, prejudices and hate.
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Issues like whether to destroy a baker uncomfortable with making a wedding cake for a gay marriage or issues with involving bathrooms and locker rooms with transgender students don't mean America is growing less tolerant. What they do mean is the world has changed very fast and it has left a lot of people confused and unsure. Laws against gay sex were still legal until 2003 having been upheld by the Supreme Court in 1986. And a national right to gay marriage is only 3 years old. While I fully support these ruling and the rights and freedoms they has gained I do wish the LGBTQ community wouldn't feel the need to weaponize them against those having trouble getting on board whether do to age or religious upbringing. And if there is a sense of less tolerance I believe it is backlash to things like the baker case.
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While I am sorry that coming to terms with the identity of others is a challenge you may not have sought out, many of us are not trying to "weaponize" the need for equal rights so much as trying to keep our heads above water while constant discrimination threatens to drown us.
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I think yours is a pretty common argument. Telling marginalized individuals to give people more time to come around. The problem is that you are essentially telling these people to supress who they are and live as second class citizens.
That baker that people are worried about was perfectly comfortable to make cakes for a dog wedding, but not a gay wedding…you think that the answer is to give people more time? To borrow the rallying cry of another long overdue rights movement, “Times Up.” I will not apologize if you are made uncomfortable by those seeking equality.
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JJTDM, I have no issue with it nor do I find it a "challenge". I probably live in the most sexually diverse city in the country. But that doesn't mean that I should support destroying the businesses of people who have having trouble it with or simply dismiss their concerns and label they as homophobes. Or that you should either. Both because it is wrong and more pragmatically because it leads to backlash.
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One problem with LBGT rights is how few people ever stop to think what those letters stand for: Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay and Transgender.
While the first three may be different versions of the same thing, there is substantial question about whether transgenders share much at all with those three, beyond their common experience of persecution, suffering at the hands of those who think it's their business how others present themselves to the world, and who they love.
But ask the average citizen what a transgender is, and probe a little and there is confusion, even among physicians. Does a transgender, born as a man, who has testicles and penis and is taking estrogens but has not committed to anatomical change not strike you as something different from a gay man?
When the transgender person with male genitalia has a girlfriend, of either gay or straight status, and he has sex with her: What, specifically, is that sex act ? Do we know?
Perhaps we should not care, but perhaps the question is germane when we try to decide just what the nature of a transgender life is.
When a transgender person who has identifiable male external genitalia insists on using the open women's locker room, can we not understand the problems that might cause otherwise tolerant and well meaning people?
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As for "bottom" surgery there are often reasons why a transgender person doesn't have it. Some do not want it. For others it's the cost. Some are not able to have the surgery for medical reason and such.
Also, a trans person has to live a full year minimum to have that surgery as well as completing all the other requirements. Then there is also long waits until the actual surgery from the time of scheduling it. There aren't exactly a plethora of surgeons who do performs these surgeries.
Finally, not offended personally and I'm sure you simply don't know otherwise, but I'd like to point out that "transgenders" is not a proper term. "Transgender person" is.
5
Do we really need to know all the details you are asking for? I don't think so. We just need to know that these are consenting adults who love one another. Just like what goes on in your bedroom, what bits go where, when and why are really none of anybody's business. It's really not the job of "otherwise tolerant and well meaning people" to decide the nature of others.
11
Claudia, actually there are a very large number of transgender people who also fall under LGB. As for learning about transgender people, well, google exists for getting a basic of understanding of nigh anything under the sun.
Any physicians who are confused simply did not receive any training in medical school, this is changing thankfully. For ones who want to know more there are plenty of medical reference materials out there. Not to mention that simply knowing any doctors/therapists/etc in the area they could point a patient to is very helpful and people are grateful for that. GPs in general shouldn't be covering transgender related care anyway unless they have had education/training in such honestly.
What happens between the sheets is no more your business when it comes to transgender people is no more your business than what you do between the sheets is to straight people, or really anyone at all.
Of the transgender people I know none engage in intercourse unless they have had surgery. Not to mention that HRT does quite the job of making such difficult if not nigh impossible.
As for locker rooms for instance the vast, vast majority of trangender people are incredibly uncomfortable with their bodies and don't want to undress directly in front of anyone. Personally, I'd use the women's locker room when it comes to being naked for even a second only if there were private areas where no one could see me. Otherwise I'd just deal with leaving a gym sweaty or not go to one.
5
I think the idea that the rights of women and girls do not matter compared to the rights of transwomen ignited a fire under people during the election year. The #MeToo movement has shown how prevalently--and horribly--women and girls have been preyed upon by persons with penises (no matter how they identify themselves). I think our society is coming to a consensus that women have a right to personal safety, and ground zero for that is restrooms and showers. In such a #MeToo context, individuals will be upset at any who press for women to sacrifice those rights for any reason. I also believe the entrance of transwomen into women's sports has also fanned those flames. Unless transwomen are willing to allow women safe space and women's sports/scholarships, our society can be expected to backtrack on its views.
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Goodness. As the hideous crime statistics decisively show, it is trans women who are most at risk. Just as the Black Lives Matter movement has helped us all understand the concept of "white fragility", I would venture that your comment exhibits "cis fragility".
16
In a locker room, no matter a person thinks they are or how they identify, it's anatomy that counts. People with male bodies do not belong in female locker rooms.
34
Let's be honest, electing a professed groper of women and following it up with support for people like Roy Moore suggests that the Republican "concern with women and girls" thing is pure BS. Transwomen are hardly the threat to women that straight men are. In fact, has a transwoman ever sexually victimized a woman?
9
Jennifer.....take heart.
President Fear-and-Loathing is an unfortunate kink in the arc of the moral universe.
He is a temporary, although horrible, setback for the United States.
Trump and the 63 million deplorables who cast their Whites R Us-Jesus R Us votes for white male spite represent the last throes of the angry past looking for one last medieval hurrah.
The world is moving past medieval religious insanity, patriarchy, and stulted heterosexuality that refuses acknowledge the scientific rainbow of humanity.
We should remember that no one is born disliking homosexuals, transgenders, bisexuals and others who are out of the ordinary....people learn ill will toward others, usually in houses of religious hatred posing as churches and mosques where medieval misanthropy and dead text from the 2nd and 8th centuries continue to cause brain damage eons later.
We have an election on November 6 2018 where tens of millions of Americans will be voting FOR tolerance, progress and civility and against the very dark spirit of our Fake-Christian-In-Chief and his Christian Shariah Law caucus.
We shall overcome.
“The highest result of education is tolerance”
― Helen Keller
"Compassion and tolerance are not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength."
- Tenzin Gyatso (Dalai Lama)
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Gosh, Socrates, you seem to have ill will toward 63 million of our fellow Americans. Where did you learn that?
15
Likely from many of the 63 million who think it's their place to take away queer rights?
5
When people support a bigot I personally have ill will towards them. Just simple, basic morals.
9