Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar? Nope, just a GREAT PRESIDENT!
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There are multiple truths, so construed and however arrived at, which may be in conflict. That predicament is as old as one of Plato’s dialogues.
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"The Left" as you say, does not exist, for The New Republic has little to do with "postmodernism," which is a term popular in the 1980s and 90s in academia. Nowadays, if you use the term in the university, most other faculty will look at you funny—"oh,that old saw!"
My point is that your use is strangely anachronistic—even if anyone had ever agreed upon what the term meant, which wasn't the case.
The New York Times has for 40 years failed to engage with any seriousness with critical discourse in the American university. I remember very clearly the insulting obits you published for Walter Benjamin and Jacques Derrida by someone who had no business writing them.
This is just a reminder that, as important as your reporting in pushing back against Trump, you are and remain in the 1940s when it comes to cultural theory and discourse.
I'm surprised that the op-ed question was posed in such a way, and that none of the respondents seemed to have picked up on it: wondering whether Trump is a postmodernist misunderstands the notion of postmodernity as put forward by it's most important commentators such as Lyotard, Harvey, Jameson (not Foucault - he was decidedly not interested in this question). Epistemological subtleties aside (which are important, but not in this case), the success of Trump as a president and the processes of the American political system in general are perhaps the best evidence that our conditions is postmodern. In thinking about this we should be looking at society, not individuals. Anyone who argues that someone could somehow be a postmodernist - like you could be liar - has a dim understanding of postmodernity and its productivity as a concept.
Post modernist? No, post moralist.
trump is just a liar. trump lies like an unintelligent person. One could reasonably infer from the stupidity evidenced by trump's lies that trump is not very intelligent at all.
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Trump is just a liar in the same way Ted Bundy was just a serial killer.
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I used to wonder how Germany could have let Hitler rise to power and enact terrible crimes against humanity. I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler, but I no longer wonder how it could happen. This tribalism and cult of personality is occurring n our own country right before our very eyes.
Trump is merely the symptom. It's the 30% of Americans who support him that are the problem that's rotting our moral fabric and destroying any notion of truth.
Trump is merely the symptom. It's the 30% of Americans who support him that are the problem that's rotting our moral fabric and destroying any notion of truth.
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I swear, Truth is a slippery devil.
Why, in this wonderful piece, Mr. Edsall engages a posse to answer the burning question "how did Trump get away with 2,140" lies (let's call them what they were) in just his FIRST year, the Trumpocene?
The first explanation, which turns out to be a strawperson, is that Trump is the quintessential post-modern embodiment of the Lie. Mr. Edsall trots out a sterling stable of scholarly academics to make the case. And, a strong case it is. Or so it seems.
But, like a good who-done-it writer, Mr. Edsall delivers the shocking truth. Trump is not a postmodernist at all. Yeah, he's a pathological liar. That's beyond debate.
No, Trump is just a common, ordinary, garden variety Nihilist.
And, that's the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Objective Truth. Maybe.
Why, in this wonderful piece, Mr. Edsall engages a posse to answer the burning question "how did Trump get away with 2,140" lies (let's call them what they were) in just his FIRST year, the Trumpocene?
The first explanation, which turns out to be a strawperson, is that Trump is the quintessential post-modern embodiment of the Lie. Mr. Edsall trots out a sterling stable of scholarly academics to make the case. And, a strong case it is. Or so it seems.
But, like a good who-done-it writer, Mr. Edsall delivers the shocking truth. Trump is not a postmodernist at all. Yeah, he's a pathological liar. That's beyond debate.
No, Trump is just a common, ordinary, garden variety Nihilist.
And, that's the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Objective Truth. Maybe.
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Just a liar.
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The latter....
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"Postmodernism" is a meaningless word used by pretentious pseudo-intellectuals to convince fellow PI's of their credentials. Let's quit intellectualizing lying.
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This question is silly. Why dignify him with any possibility other than the lying actuality?
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Nihilism is the better term for Trumperism, radical passive nihilism which Nietzsche defined as the highest values devaluing themselves.
Golden Calf worship is usually the norm for the vast majority of us: worship of appetitive gratifications, comfort and narcotizing, including narcotizing luxury and entertainment. Golden Calf worshippers are usually also Caesar worshippers: worship of power directly physical, military, economic. Caesar promises to protect and provide for more if we praise and obey.
Our most important cultural heroes however came down from the mountain or from the desert or from brooding in the middle of the street or some other place of isolation, came to ruin the dance and the party and the shopping, and instead try to move us on, prod or pester or cajole us, toward some better place, higher state, loftier kingdom, eternal realm, really real good true beautiful, etc and etc. …
But much of that is now suspect: as so much fake news. So we prefer to stay on the couch as much as we can, in the easy chair, by the TV, and give our devotion to whoever promises best to maintain us in that happy consumer-stupor and not trouble us with prattle about some vision thing or dream other than more cheeseburgers and diet soda. Our higher good is good hair.
Golden Calf worship is usually the norm for the vast majority of us: worship of appetitive gratifications, comfort and narcotizing, including narcotizing luxury and entertainment. Golden Calf worshippers are usually also Caesar worshippers: worship of power directly physical, military, economic. Caesar promises to protect and provide for more if we praise and obey.
Our most important cultural heroes however came down from the mountain or from the desert or from brooding in the middle of the street or some other place of isolation, came to ruin the dance and the party and the shopping, and instead try to move us on, prod or pester or cajole us, toward some better place, higher state, loftier kingdom, eternal realm, really real good true beautiful, etc and etc. …
But much of that is now suspect: as so much fake news. So we prefer to stay on the couch as much as we can, in the easy chair, by the TV, and give our devotion to whoever promises best to maintain us in that happy consumer-stupor and not trouble us with prattle about some vision thing or dream other than more cheeseburgers and diet soda. Our higher good is good hair.
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But to call him a nihilist isn't quite right, either. He doesn't seek to break and burn everything and then walk away leaving a desert. He wants to perpetuate a certain type of society -- a society in which white men who have "succeeded" in a Social Darwinist sense are at the top and dominate the rest of us. He resembles a 19th century robber baron much more than he does Bakunin. He differs from the robber barons in that he is less intelligent and lacks the charitable impulse that marked those otherwise ruthless captains of industry. He really is a 12-year-old boy (and a badly behaved one) who somehow got to be president. The fact that he reached that pinnacle is a reflection on the larger society. And that's the subject we really need to focus on.
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The body of this article should read with one word, "liar"
Any honest and/or sane American knows that.
I'm getting tired of people trying to explain DTs behavior with philosophical frameworks as if he is somehow deliberate in his ways. What we have with DT is the worst example of how a wealthy person's last name can elevate their status to places they have not earned. If DT didn't have his father's money mixed with a complete absence of morality, he never would have gotten further than the corner bar.
Any honest and/or sane American knows that.
I'm getting tired of people trying to explain DTs behavior with philosophical frameworks as if he is somehow deliberate in his ways. What we have with DT is the worst example of how a wealthy person's last name can elevate their status to places they have not earned. If DT didn't have his father's money mixed with a complete absence of morality, he never would have gotten further than the corner bar.
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I grew up in NYC. trump was an persistant annoyance. A buffoon. If you could possibly avoid him you did. That was not always possible. The man has no shame. He would crash events where no one wanted him there.
In the 2016 Presidential vote he got 20% in Manhattan. Why are we even talking about him?
In the 2016 Presidential vote he got 20% in Manhattan. Why are we even talking about him?
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I agree the many readers who think this is a lot of mental stress trying to put lipstick on a post modern pig. I started reading with good intentions, but couldn’t even get through it. As for Trump, who knows what his truth is until he utters it? That’s not truth. It’s caprice and whimsy.
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Geeze Louise! Post-truth, post-modern ... post-democratic America ... I can see why Mr. Edsall is so despondent about our future ... roughly one-third of Americans who follow trump could care less about whether we remain a democracy or not ... HOWEVER, that leaves somewhere around two-thirds who do, many of whom are actively involved in the RESISTANCE. On 11/06/18 we have the opportunity to formally take our country back ... euphemism as that is ...
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Understanding of or decisions or choices about what to take seriously in any field -- politics, governrnent, religion, the arts, participation in a community ---- requires shared acceptance of a Frame of Reference:--some basic agreement about "what is plausible," what are ther most likely explanations of "what it" or "how things have come to be as they are." Without some such shared assumptions about how and why things are as they are, a coherent community/society is not possible.
He is just a real estate salesman. Says anything to get the deal.
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I never met truth. I do not know if I I recognized truth when I saw it. Nevertheless, truth exists but iut doers not belong to anyone because it belongs to everyone.
Truth may be discovered individually but it is always known collectively.
In one sense, history is the narrative of how mankind conducts the search for truth. This search is conducted as human behavior and its relationship to technology involve allowing mankind to control or influence outcomes. In this sense, the search for truth is accompanied by changes in the perception of reality.
Truth may be discovered individually but it is always known collectively.
In one sense, history is the narrative of how mankind conducts the search for truth. This search is conducted as human behavior and its relationship to technology involve allowing mankind to control or influence outcomes. In this sense, the search for truth is accompanied by changes in the perception of reality.
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How long does an issue like this need to persist to finally penetrate The Times' intellectual tundra? Karl Rove explained this to you what, ten years ago, when he told Ron Susskind that the Bush Administration was operating on the premise that there's an alternative to the "reality-based community." That's been the GOP's position ever since. It's epistemological secession. It's why we're fighting a civil war of thought itself, with reality against "fake news".
Does The Times read The Times?
Does The Times read The Times?
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I can’t remember which novel but somewhere Philip Roth wrote; there is no more truth, only opinion.
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I blame Warhol.
He is obviously a life-long liar - his personal and business relationships are all the evidence needed.
The fact that he gets away with it is testimony to an unembarassed consciencelessness that verges on psychopathy and a sense of privilege that is the product of a lifetime of wealth and indulge.
The fact that he gets away with it is testimony to an unembarassed consciencelessness that verges on psychopathy and a sense of privilege that is the product of a lifetime of wealth and indulge.
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Really, Mr. Edsall / NYT Editor? REALLY? The newspaper that's printing a running tally of lies by the man at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, is asking if he's 'just a stealth post modernist'?
In case you missed it, here's your own article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html
You people on the masthead need to get your head on straight.
In case you missed it, here's your own article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html
You people on the masthead need to get your head on straight.
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Trump is a showman. He has a huge ego (that I don't admire). He's used to speaking his mind and getting a lot of attention for it. I don't disagree he plays loose with the facts. He frequently exaggerates or is otherwise inaccurate. Usually there's an underlying point he's trying to make.
I don't know if it is conscious or not but I see a couple big benefits. The media focuses more on the tweets than it does on reporting on his agenda. The lack of focus on the substantive things Trump is actually doing may be helping him achieve his goals, his initial flop on healthcare aside. The media may even discredit itself to a certain extent, at least with some readers and viewers because they don't seem to be covering the things that really matter to Americans like the economy and jobs.
Trump is now starting to rack up wins. Taxes, cutting regulations, judges, ISIS, etc. While everyone is in a huff about how awful he is, he's figuring out how government works and how to move his agenda forward. It's actually pretty smart for a guy who is holding his first political office ever.
While the Obama Administration deserves a lot of credit for avoiding a complete implosion of the economy, subsequent policies weren't good for business and the 85% of Americans employed in the private sector. Trump's reducing regulation, tax reform and soon hopefully stimulus promote growth, resulting in the 85% getting raises, promotions and bonuses. Good for our people. Results matter.
I don't know if it is conscious or not but I see a couple big benefits. The media focuses more on the tweets than it does on reporting on his agenda. The lack of focus on the substantive things Trump is actually doing may be helping him achieve his goals, his initial flop on healthcare aside. The media may even discredit itself to a certain extent, at least with some readers and viewers because they don't seem to be covering the things that really matter to Americans like the economy and jobs.
Trump is now starting to rack up wins. Taxes, cutting regulations, judges, ISIS, etc. While everyone is in a huff about how awful he is, he's figuring out how government works and how to move his agenda forward. It's actually pretty smart for a guy who is holding his first political office ever.
While the Obama Administration deserves a lot of credit for avoiding a complete implosion of the economy, subsequent policies weren't good for business and the 85% of Americans employed in the private sector. Trump's reducing regulation, tax reform and soon hopefully stimulus promote growth, resulting in the 85% getting raises, promotions and bonuses. Good for our people. Results matter.
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The easiest question I’ve been asked in a long time: Donald Trump is a Liar.
You can dance around it, dress it up in psycho-babble, cloak it in modifiers and fancy words, but at the core, Trump lies 100% of the time. As a very current example, his offer to meet with Mueller will play out just like his “I’ll release my tax returns” statement.
You can dance around it, dress it up in psycho-babble, cloak it in modifiers and fancy words, but at the core, Trump lies 100% of the time. As a very current example, his offer to meet with Mueller will play out just like his “I’ll release my tax returns” statement.
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Perpetually committed to genuflecting before the living idol of greed, megalomania, White male incapacity, lies, perjury and destructiveness through perversely distorted journalism that is shameful in its intent.
Ugghhh... so many words. So much punctuation. So few pictures. Can somebody please tell me what to think? Hannity?
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Just a liar.
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What is the difference between postmodernists and liars?
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If lying and conning his way to the White House was successful, what incentive would Trump have to stop lying once he became president?
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Well-reasoned and thoroughly researched analysis, as usual, by Mr. Edsall.
Now let's have those tax returns. Someone, please step up with the evidence so we can put an end to this train-wreck of an administration. The damage goes on behind the scenes every day. The nitwit in the Oval Office will glide from one fantasy to another, buoyed along by his Republican co-conspirators, until someone roots out the truth about his past deeds and present associations.
These are discoverable, objective truths and need to see the light of day. Soon!
Now let's have those tax returns. Someone, please step up with the evidence so we can put an end to this train-wreck of an administration. The damage goes on behind the scenes every day. The nitwit in the Oval Office will glide from one fantasy to another, buoyed along by his Republican co-conspirators, until someone roots out the truth about his past deeds and present associations.
These are discoverable, objective truths and need to see the light of day. Soon!
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Liar.
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I think Muller just might drive a Model A.
"The Whole Truth" Twilight Zone, Episode 50, Jan 20, 1961
This, as the banner already has proclaimed, is Mr. Harvey Hunnicut, an expert on commerce and con jobs, a brash, bright, and larceny-loaded wheeler and dealer who, when the good Lord passed out a conscience, must have gone for a beer and missed out. And these are a couple of other characters in our story: a little old man and a Model A car - but not just any old man and not just any Model A. There's something very special about the both of them. As a matter of fact, in just a few moments, they'll give Harvey Hunnicut something that he's never experienced before. Through the good offices of a little magic, they will unload on Mr. Hunnicut the absolute necessity to tell the truth. Exactly where they come from is conjecture, but as to where they're heading for, this we know, because all of them - and you - are on the threshold of the Twilight Zone."
"The Whole Truth" Twilight Zone, Episode 50, Jan 20, 1961
This, as the banner already has proclaimed, is Mr. Harvey Hunnicut, an expert on commerce and con jobs, a brash, bright, and larceny-loaded wheeler and dealer who, when the good Lord passed out a conscience, must have gone for a beer and missed out. And these are a couple of other characters in our story: a little old man and a Model A car - but not just any old man and not just any Model A. There's something very special about the both of them. As a matter of fact, in just a few moments, they'll give Harvey Hunnicut something that he's never experienced before. Through the good offices of a little magic, they will unload on Mr. Hunnicut the absolute necessity to tell the truth. Exactly where they come from is conjecture, but as to where they're heading for, this we know, because all of them - and you - are on the threshold of the Twilight Zone."
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Athens had a democracy of sorts in the age of Pericles but it didn't last. Writing 100 years later, Plato regarded democracy as fourth best of his five regimes of government, just above tyranny.
We should not expect democracy to survive in the US. To quote from this essay (which quotes from Gutting):
....serious postmodern thinkers like Foucault accept the ideal of objective truth. They point out, however, that practices and institutions claiming to be based on scientific truths often turn out to seek power as much or more than truth.
For me, the truth is represented by science. I believe it is fairly certain that the Milky Way Galaxy contains a supermassive black hole at its center, even though the very notion of black hole is quite recent.
But science tends to be ignored when it provides inconvenient truths. In 1968, Paul Ehrlich published his book the Population Bomb, which predicted starvation and other calamities if population were not controlled.
But Americans didn't notice. At least pundits at the NY Times didn't notice.
The problem with democracy is that the majority is often wrong. For example, we were wrong in invading Vietnam and Iraq.
A democracy can survive some bad decisions, but after a while politics becomes uncoupled from reality.
Ehrlich was actually right at least partially. Global warming is a consequence of population growth.
People can't even discuss overpopulation because current political thought interprets everything in terms of race.
We should not expect democracy to survive in the US. To quote from this essay (which quotes from Gutting):
....serious postmodern thinkers like Foucault accept the ideal of objective truth. They point out, however, that practices and institutions claiming to be based on scientific truths often turn out to seek power as much or more than truth.
For me, the truth is represented by science. I believe it is fairly certain that the Milky Way Galaxy contains a supermassive black hole at its center, even though the very notion of black hole is quite recent.
But science tends to be ignored when it provides inconvenient truths. In 1968, Paul Ehrlich published his book the Population Bomb, which predicted starvation and other calamities if population were not controlled.
But Americans didn't notice. At least pundits at the NY Times didn't notice.
The problem with democracy is that the majority is often wrong. For example, we were wrong in invading Vietnam and Iraq.
A democracy can survive some bad decisions, but after a while politics becomes uncoupled from reality.
Ehrlich was actually right at least partially. Global warming is a consequence of population growth.
People can't even discuss overpopulation because current political thought interprets everything in terms of race.
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He's a congenial liar, full stop.
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Once I read the headline on this op-ed I knew exactly what it was about--normalizing the lying and dishonesty of Donald Trump. Why does the media want to give this man more power than he already has? He's destroying America for God's sake...
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re: "got people thinking".
We don't need to overthink this and I don't care what a "stealth postmodernist" is. The man is damn liar, a blot on humanity, and the personification of everything wrong in our society.
One year ago, the common wisdom was that we should not normalize him. He is a deviant, ethically, morally, sexually, politically, and financially. Everything about him violates established norms of behavior and the rule of law. The sooner he is out of office and out of sight, the better this country and the world will be. I will never forgive the Republican Party for kowtowing to him. Never.
We don't need to overthink this and I don't care what a "stealth postmodernist" is. The man is damn liar, a blot on humanity, and the personification of everything wrong in our society.
One year ago, the common wisdom was that we should not normalize him. He is a deviant, ethically, morally, sexually, politically, and financially. Everything about him violates established norms of behavior and the rule of law. The sooner he is out of office and out of sight, the better this country and the world will be. I will never forgive the Republican Party for kowtowing to him. Never.
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Enough with the semantics. The man's a damn liar.
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He is an unmitigated liar. There is no way to dress it up.
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C’mon. This started well before Trump. Fox News has been constructing its own reality for years. ...although it is kind of funny seeing postmodernists and their apologists bend over backwards to explain why it’s not REALLY “critical theory” when one reaches alt-right conclusions. I guess if there’s a silver lining to Trump’s assault on truth it’s that he’ll take postmodernism down with him. Unless he wins, in which case we’ll already be screwed.
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Kinda high falutin' for plain old-fashioned deceit and self-promotion, ain't it?
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Do we really need the philosophic gloss of "post-modernism" to conceal the obvious and ugly truth that we're dealing with an old-fashioned demagogue and would be dictator. Trump is no different than those who strutted across he world stage in the 1930s costing tens of millions of lives. It's the old politics of grievance and "other blame" the undesirable "fifth columnists" like the Jews, communists, and ithers. Now its Hispanic immigrants, Muslim terrorists, and others from "s***hole" countries. It may be new to Anerica, but it doesn't merit being wrapped up in fancy terminology. Trump is just another high-functioning sociopath selling bigotry, cruelty and fear. He's already done immense damage to civil discourse, rhe environment, and people of color. And rhe nation and the world will not be safe as long as he is in power.
Trump is beyond mere cynicism. He's a card carrying sociopath willing, for example, to take DACA kids hostage for what he himself, in his heart of hearts -- however infinitesimal that might be -- acknowledges was a stupid, but effective in some Know-Nothing quarters, promise about a Wall.
Notice, by the way, how the original conceit that Mexico would pay for the Wall has completely disappeared from the conversation. If it's built the taxpayers will pay for it.
Sociopathic behavior can have all kinds of consequences, typically negative ones.
Though November 2018 may bring some positive consequences in electoral terms: i.e., for the parts of the electorate which have not checked their brains at the door in favor of indulging the basest and most negative of their emotions.
But overall it is not that useful to attribute intent to the sociopath for either the negative or the positive outcomes of his behavior. (No using of the now politically correct "her behavior" in this context!)
He simply doesn't care about the socially shared outcomes. If it's not about him or his family -- whom he would throw under the bus if he thought it necessary for his own survival -- it just doesn't count.
So, Yes, we are in a bit of a post-modern world, but not one which Donald Trump intended or didn't intend.
He's like an undiapered baby who is doing dumps on the carpet and insouciantly leaving the mess for others to clean up.
Notice, by the way, how the original conceit that Mexico would pay for the Wall has completely disappeared from the conversation. If it's built the taxpayers will pay for it.
Sociopathic behavior can have all kinds of consequences, typically negative ones.
Though November 2018 may bring some positive consequences in electoral terms: i.e., for the parts of the electorate which have not checked their brains at the door in favor of indulging the basest and most negative of their emotions.
But overall it is not that useful to attribute intent to the sociopath for either the negative or the positive outcomes of his behavior. (No using of the now politically correct "her behavior" in this context!)
He simply doesn't care about the socially shared outcomes. If it's not about him or his family -- whom he would throw under the bus if he thought it necessary for his own survival -- it just doesn't count.
So, Yes, we are in a bit of a post-modern world, but not one which Donald Trump intended or didn't intend.
He's like an undiapered baby who is doing dumps on the carpet and insouciantly leaving the mess for others to clean up.
With Gratitude for the depth of this piece and the “gathering” involved,
This 81 year old long retired, post-Stroke Lutheran pasror and Licensed Family
Therapist years would like to propose that “President” Trump has wealth, but
No stealth, but the armament of a diagnosable Sociopathic Personality
Disorder in free-flow with the enablement and accompaniment of a mass of
unaware and enchanted citizens for chronic line applause. I believe at least 26
Accredited therapists, including Psychiatrists, have contributed their observations, printed within material found in New York Times, etc. his chronic Lying is just the most obvious symptom of a viable Diagnosis. Meanwhile, Norh,
East, South, and West, Donald Trump is bordered by Himself....and thoroughly
Enjoying All of our 24/7 Attention....just a couple More “Symptoms”!
“
This 81 year old long retired, post-Stroke Lutheran pasror and Licensed Family
Therapist years would like to propose that “President” Trump has wealth, but
No stealth, but the armament of a diagnosable Sociopathic Personality
Disorder in free-flow with the enablement and accompaniment of a mass of
unaware and enchanted citizens for chronic line applause. I believe at least 26
Accredited therapists, including Psychiatrists, have contributed their observations, printed within material found in New York Times, etc. his chronic Lying is just the most obvious symptom of a viable Diagnosis. Meanwhile, Norh,
East, South, and West, Donald Trump is bordered by Himself....and thoroughly
Enjoying All of our 24/7 Attention....just a couple More “Symptoms”!
“
2
For all lies and liars, stealth is the purpose.
Very interesting take. Thanks.
I would add the observation that the Romantic artistic movement of the late 18th-early 19th century––Goethe's "The Sorrows of Young Werther" was a turning point––its acceptance of narcissism, the elevation to primacy of personal emotions, plays no small part in Trump's appeal to his adherents.
For the latter group, Trump is a very romantic character. He senses the euphoric effect his exaggerated persona has his audience, and plays on it in his rallies.
Television also plays a part. Televised personality competitions, aka, political debates, are rough on ordinary bureaucrats like Bush, Kasich and Clinton. They talk policy, then thrust and parry with their opponents, Trump doesn't bother with detailed policy; he projects an almost German Romantic ideal of Leadership.
History records that Hitler was a charismatic romantic figure to his adherents. As was Hugo Chavez to his; Castro to his. Putin... So many others.
So was FDR, for that matter; and TR as well.
It's a gamble with romantic leaders. They like to roll the dice for high stakes. You can get a TR who busted the trusts, cleaned up New York, and muscled through the Panama Canal; or you can get a Putin who is almost single-handedly lowering life expectancy in Russia while turning a few loyal pals into billionaires.
Then there is Trump...
I would add the observation that the Romantic artistic movement of the late 18th-early 19th century––Goethe's "The Sorrows of Young Werther" was a turning point––its acceptance of narcissism, the elevation to primacy of personal emotions, plays no small part in Trump's appeal to his adherents.
For the latter group, Trump is a very romantic character. He senses the euphoric effect his exaggerated persona has his audience, and plays on it in his rallies.
Television also plays a part. Televised personality competitions, aka, political debates, are rough on ordinary bureaucrats like Bush, Kasich and Clinton. They talk policy, then thrust and parry with their opponents, Trump doesn't bother with detailed policy; he projects an almost German Romantic ideal of Leadership.
History records that Hitler was a charismatic romantic figure to his adherents. As was Hugo Chavez to his; Castro to his. Putin... So many others.
So was FDR, for that matter; and TR as well.
It's a gamble with romantic leaders. They like to roll the dice for high stakes. You can get a TR who busted the trusts, cleaned up New York, and muscled through the Panama Canal; or you can get a Putin who is almost single-handedly lowering life expectancy in Russia while turning a few loyal pals into billionaires.
Then there is Trump...
1
Trump is just a con man channeling P.T. Barnum. There is nothing complex about him.
5
"Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar?"
Is this even a question at this stage?
Is this even a question at this stage?
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The later.
Those who consider Trump a postmodernist show their utter ignorance of what post modernist writers such as Foucault and Derrida were trying to say.
1
Trump is always a liar
3
The virtue of a maggot is that it only eats dead flesh. If only Trump could rise to that level.
4
Try: Flim Flam man.
1
Or, put simply, "Is the Bull in the China shop a manifestation of deconstructionist aesthetic, and a stimulus for re-ordering our perception of physical space, or is he a just giant pain in the Ox?"
He is just a liar.
2
A bundle of Wealth and an Absence of Stealth,
But that He is "President", I mutter, "Why?"
For any Wisdom to Share? There's Nothing There.
But to fill Any Space....He'll just LIE!
But that He is "President", I mutter, "Why?"
For any Wisdom to Share? There's Nothing There.
But to fill Any Space....He'll just LIE!
2
30ish% of American believe their messenger, The President, speaks the truth as they see it/want it.
30ish% of America believes The Donald is a straight up liar, Putin puppet, and money laundering con-man.
30ish% don't know/don't want to know/care to know more about the Kardashian's, or another meaningless facsimile.
9ish% are truly lost.
1ish% don't care because they're making big money no matter who/what.
The tribal lines are clear. Which America will prevail?
30ish% of America believes The Donald is a straight up liar, Putin puppet, and money laundering con-man.
30ish% don't know/don't want to know/care to know more about the Kardashian's, or another meaningless facsimile.
9ish% are truly lost.
1ish% don't care because they're making big money no matter who/what.
The tribal lines are clear. Which America will prevail?
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a. Stealth Postmodernist
2
Oh, brother, here we go again as eggheads try to assign some sort of philosophical significance to this ignorant pathological liar and his ignorant pathological base.
It's not that hard. Those that have been left behind will stay behind as they scramble to return to a mythological past that didn't value them any more than now. Their defiantly proud ignorance being exploited by a defiantly proud ignorant man will get them nothing as they are gradually beginning to realize. So they double down. From ignorant to stupid is the hall mark of Trump's core. Zero sympathy.
It's not that hard. Those that have been left behind will stay behind as they scramble to return to a mythological past that didn't value them any more than now. Their defiantly proud ignorance being exploited by a defiantly proud ignorant man will get them nothing as they are gradually beginning to realize. So they double down. From ignorant to stupid is the hall mark of Trump's core. Zero sympathy.
1
He's just a liar.
4
"How should we explain the fact that President Trump got away with making 2,140 false or misleading claims during his initial year in office?"
and how many did Obama make ?
But the Times never reported on that.
If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.
The choice is either the Iran deal or war.
The President does not have the power to protect illegal immigrants (until he says he does).
We will all save money on our medical insurance with Obamacare.
Get out of your echo chamber once in a while.
and how many did Obama make ?
But the Times never reported on that.
If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.
The choice is either the Iran deal or war.
The President does not have the power to protect illegal immigrants (until he says he does).
We will all save money on our medical insurance with Obamacare.
Get out of your echo chamber once in a while.
2
Stable genius?
Post modernist?
Least racist ?
Stop the hagiography!
Only Trump believes the above.
The rest of believe that the scata that come from his mind is just that : scata
Post modernist?
Least racist ?
Stop the hagiography!
Only Trump believes the above.
The rest of believe that the scata that come from his mind is just that : scata
2
Edsall is a decent journalist. Problem might be he formulates his Journalism around PHD intellects. Seriously out of touch with main street.
1
Trump is an uneducated liar and kindergarten bully. Putting fancy language on it doesn't change anything.
7
Trump is nothing. What props up his lies and gives him any sort of credibility is the willful ignorance and almost narcoleptic passivity of the American people. We have normalized his lies, his racism, his sexism and his dementia because no one here seems willing to take their share of responsibility for allowing such a man to become President of the United States. To admit that would mean calling in to question all our assumptions about what our country stands for, acknowledging the poverty of our ideas and recognizing the utter lack of a common vision. It’s us, not him. We’re the sick soil that allowed this toxic weed to take root in the first place.
With sincere respect to all commenting on this item, many of you simply over analyze. He is nothing more than a greedy, self-serving, racist liar. We need to be rid of him ASAP.
5
Trump is not even a liar. His borderline solipcism blurs the boundary between reality and desire. In his warped mind there is no effective difference between what he prefers to be the case and what can be proven to be the case.
2
Why do political commentators persist in this myth that Trump is some Machiavellian genius playing n-dimensional chess against his enemies? It may sound intriguing and worthy of debate, but it isn't real. Trump is a liar. He is also dumb as a stump. Every speech he gives demonstrates that he has the vocabulary (and the emotional maturity) of a 7-year-old. I'm also tired of hearing about the "post-modernist presidency." Trump lies constantly, outrageously, and shamelessly, to do nothing more than to advance his "brand." And anyone with a few functioning brain-cells can figure out that he's lying. The fact that we TOLERATE his lying, without holding him to account, is what aggravates me the most. And as for those who claim, "There is no truth," I say that post-modernists deny objective truth because they have so much to lie about, and they don't want to get caught.
2
Liar
4
Not complicated. Unrepentant liar. Charlatan. Not deserving of such searching efforts at understanding. What we see is all there is.
4
People keep ascribing some large purpose to Trump's action -- he's an autocrat, he's a destroyer. He has no large purpose, only small purposes: how can I get attention, how can I get rich, how can I impress whoever is standing in front of me at the moment. Yes, he's doing huge damage, but that's incidental to him.
4
I think Mr. Edsall gives Trump too much credit; he's not trying to be a nihilist (that would be Steve Bannon). I'm with Professor Oksala: He's just a liar. There is no deep thought or strategy behind his lies; he doesn't have the capability. The saddest part is that millions of Americans are buying what this moron and con-man is selling.
3
We are in a grand narrative, indeed though, me thinks. Isn't this the era of conservatism ? Having won all levers of government for the second time in this early century, seemingly impossible really, given the meltdown of 07', the conservatives have now succeeded in their ultimate goal - destroying reality and truth - by embracing the very moral relativism they so railed against since Reagan was but a fanciful thought. Having stood on that mountain of morality, of family values, of decency by design, they have now torn down that lofty high ground by embracing the human equivalent of its disdain and embarking on a scorched earth crusade against all that is commonly known or shared through understanding, a philosophy that contradicts everything held high prior and that has no bearing or mooring, simply a meandering driven by grievance, enmity, blasphemery, and vindictiveness... the four horsemen of the a-pack-a-zilch. As in all historical dialectics, from a philosophical bend, the day of reckoning is coming. We can only hope that plenty of openings exist, on that day, for dog catchers, though the competition even there may be too stiff for them.
Just a Liar for $200 please, Alex.
4
Whenever us "Leftist, Liberal Elites" intellectualize why Trump is what he is and does what he does in our elitist way, we solidify his "Basket of deplorable's" base, maybe even adding some. Trumps tactics are plain & simple, that of dictators who exploit the frustrations of groups that feel victimized by progress good, & rising concentration of wealth bad, by seeking to destroy democratic institutions & blaming the "Other." Trump is a poster child of exploitation of the very groups who feel victimized & support him. Maybe BOTs pushing news feeds comparing Trump words/deeds to Hitler, Stalin etc... will resonate with them.
2
What is required is a Lachanian Analysis:
Jacques Lacan (April 13, 1901 to September 9, 1981) was a major figure in Parisian intellectual life for much of the twentieth century. Sometimes referred to as “the French Freud,” he is an important figure in the history of psychoanalysis. His teachings and writings explore the significance of Freud's discovery of the unconscious both within the theory and practice of analysis….”.
1. Historical Overview
2. Fundamental Concepts
2.1 Register Theory
2.2 The Mirror Stage, the Ego, and the Subject
2.3 Otherness, the Oedipus Complex, and Sexuation
2.4 The Libidinal Economy
(https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/lacan/)
A cursory analysis points to the Mirror Stage and the struggle with the ideal-I as most salient.
Lacan on speech:
“Even if it communicates nothing, discourse represents the existence of communication; even if it denies the obvious, it affirms that speech constitutes truth; even if it is destined to deceive, it relies on faith in testimony…[psychoanalyst] takes the description of an everyday event as a fable addressed as a word to the wise, a long prosopopeia as a direction interjection, and, contrariwise, a simple slip of the tongue as a highly complex statement, and even the rest of a silence as the whole lyrical development it stands for.” – Ecrits, 251-252
Most importantly, a Lacanian Analysis is “not even wrong”, which also suits the ideations of POTUS.
A perfect fit: Covfefe.
Jacques Lacan (April 13, 1901 to September 9, 1981) was a major figure in Parisian intellectual life for much of the twentieth century. Sometimes referred to as “the French Freud,” he is an important figure in the history of psychoanalysis. His teachings and writings explore the significance of Freud's discovery of the unconscious both within the theory and practice of analysis….”.
1. Historical Overview
2. Fundamental Concepts
2.1 Register Theory
2.2 The Mirror Stage, the Ego, and the Subject
2.3 Otherness, the Oedipus Complex, and Sexuation
2.4 The Libidinal Economy
(https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/lacan/)
A cursory analysis points to the Mirror Stage and the struggle with the ideal-I as most salient.
Lacan on speech:
“Even if it communicates nothing, discourse represents the existence of communication; even if it denies the obvious, it affirms that speech constitutes truth; even if it is destined to deceive, it relies on faith in testimony…[psychoanalyst] takes the description of an everyday event as a fable addressed as a word to the wise, a long prosopopeia as a direction interjection, and, contrariwise, a simple slip of the tongue as a highly complex statement, and even the rest of a silence as the whole lyrical development it stands for.” – Ecrits, 251-252
Most importantly, a Lacanian Analysis is “not even wrong”, which also suits the ideations of POTUS.
A perfect fit: Covfefe.
Trump is what he has always been - whatever that actually is. What I'd like to know is how do we define the rest of them? Trump has hundreds of enablers that help him move the national conversation in whatever direction best serves them at any given moment. That, to me, seems a lot more problematic than trying to figure out the psyche of this one particular lunatic.
The survey says LIAR
4
Great! We all get to sit around and talk in large multi-syllabic Latinized words and congratulate ourselves on the vast knowledge we have of aberrant behavior. Meanwhile, DT destroys our principals, values, the very soul of our nation and flushes it all down the toilet. At the same time enabled and normalized by the GOP, the evangelical right and the now media jumping on board (low coverage of the women's march just to name one). Let's all get busy - write letters - march - get involved - throw the bums out. This is a time for action before it's too late.
Jerry W N E Kingdom VT
Jerry W N E Kingdom VT
4
Bone spur is a liar. It's not a matter of his philosophy. He was brought to us by the Koch brothers, read map, gerrymandering and the repugnant party. The fix is also uncomplicated. Let voters pick politicians rather than politicians picking voters and the likes of bone spur will not happen again. True democracy is not perfect but is impervious to the truly pathological path that the repugnant party has been going down.
2
We’re still undecided as to how we should characterize the concept of ‘postmodernism’, but we are much more certain about the underlying truths that drive men like Trump.
Before the election we noted that the previous two were (finally!) about race, and this one would simply change one letter in the equation.
It was about rape. Rape won.
Nothing about the way Trump comports himself, apparently both privately and publicly, strays an inch from the behaviors defined in the package of roles, goals, drives and impulses that evolution has provided every human male, the primitive behavioral mating strategy.
Trump isn’t ‘post’ anything; he’s an atavism with an agenda that should stand as a monument to our shame as a nation. The only reason he’s news at all is the reluctance of a significant slice of the population to face either their denial or longing for the perceived advantages of the primitive mating behaviors.
We see the same behavior everywhere, every day, in our fifty-year-plus study of the underlying mechanisms of human mating behavior, and Trump is the poster child of the worst of it. He is no different than Larry Nassar in this respect. He just hasn’t yet been caught.
Any study of Trump is revealing of exactly how predators like Nassar manage to persist as long as they do in the face of obvious lies and misdeeds, to remain in a position of power supported by good and well-intentioned people.
At the heart of it, it’s still just rape. We’re all the victims.
Before the election we noted that the previous two were (finally!) about race, and this one would simply change one letter in the equation.
It was about rape. Rape won.
Nothing about the way Trump comports himself, apparently both privately and publicly, strays an inch from the behaviors defined in the package of roles, goals, drives and impulses that evolution has provided every human male, the primitive behavioral mating strategy.
Trump isn’t ‘post’ anything; he’s an atavism with an agenda that should stand as a monument to our shame as a nation. The only reason he’s news at all is the reluctance of a significant slice of the population to face either their denial or longing for the perceived advantages of the primitive mating behaviors.
We see the same behavior everywhere, every day, in our fifty-year-plus study of the underlying mechanisms of human mating behavior, and Trump is the poster child of the worst of it. He is no different than Larry Nassar in this respect. He just hasn’t yet been caught.
Any study of Trump is revealing of exactly how predators like Nassar manage to persist as long as they do in the face of obvious lies and misdeeds, to remain in a position of power supported by good and well-intentioned people.
At the heart of it, it’s still just rape. We’re all the victims.
2
He is a grifter, a fraud, and a liar. Even the blue-collar Republicans I know tell me, "Hey - I'm a life-long Republican, but I didn't vote for Trump...he's nuts." He is surely guilty of taking money from the Russians over decades, which led to a slippery slope of bizarre alliances to attempt to throw the election. The Russian bots continue to strew their lies wherever they can (no one is there to stop them). But he is surrounded by Quislings, who will deserve their place in history alongside the original Quisling (and you know what the Norwegians did to him post-war). Who will bell the cat?
2
I'm going with "just a liar"
4
Professor Oksala hit the nail on the head. He is simply a liar. And a con man. And a jerk. In less tha 25 words.
2
Is the headline of this article overthinking it or is it really overthinking it?
1
Just a liar.
4
Postmodernism? Latest academic fad. There is always the point of probability, stupid. Try going to a physician and getting treated on wild guesswork (given no objective truth, huh?). There are probabilities that allow for FDA approval of treatments, meaning that something has consistently shown through controlled studies that it works--and in practice, guess what?--it works. The "tribal" notion is the latest variation of authoritarian personality, as well as the P.T. Barnum populace in the advertising age--always suckers for snake oil. Anybody with any psychological sense can see that Trump has more than enough behavioral features of a dangerous mental disorder--there's the key issue. He's willing to use his hucksterism gone wild, to say or do anything that advances himself, totally amorally manipulating those authoritarian-prone suckers. It's not that truth is relative, but that there is moral/normal and amoral/abnormal, period. Many perceptive people commenting here have clearly understood it.
Trump is a German Pinocchio. A born liar.
1
This is a Surrealist piece!
Talking about this sort of stuff in connection with Trump is surreal.
]
The BIG lies, the postmodernist Marxian lies, lie with the Left,
not Trump.
They, for example, claim that people who opposed the Paris Accord
were doing it by "denying science". No, they were denying that the Paris Accord, because since it put no restrictions whatsoever on CO2 emissions, would do anything
significant to except hurt the economies of countries, like the USA before Trump, who were patsies fro China and India.
The truth denier are the Leftists who deny the scientific fact that races differ in abilities, and that for the modern technological world, Whites and Asians simply are on average better.
Talking about this sort of stuff in connection with Trump is surreal.
]
The BIG lies, the postmodernist Marxian lies, lie with the Left,
not Trump.
They, for example, claim that people who opposed the Paris Accord
were doing it by "denying science". No, they were denying that the Paris Accord, because since it put no restrictions whatsoever on CO2 emissions, would do anything
significant to except hurt the economies of countries, like the USA before Trump, who were patsies fro China and India.
The truth denier are the Leftists who deny the scientific fact that races differ in abilities, and that for the modern technological world, Whites and Asians simply are on average better.
All of this academic posturing is ridiculous. There is no 'there' there to Trump -- and to bandy his name about with post-modern theorists does a disservice to the post-modernism.
One of post-modernism's themes, despite its rejection of grand narratives, is its celebration of voices 'on the margin' as they seek to move more towards the center. Hence, immigrants, African-Americans, gays and lesbians, feminists, etc. are given voice to, as they seek to have America deliver on its promise of freedom and liberty for all. Trump, however, undermines all of this by his sheer boorish ignorance.
What defines the Trump era most of all is the ability to 'be a dick,' and not be called out for being one. The semantic flailing about otherwise merely unintentionally legitimizes something that does not deserve to be lauded.
One of post-modernism's themes, despite its rejection of grand narratives, is its celebration of voices 'on the margin' as they seek to move more towards the center. Hence, immigrants, African-Americans, gays and lesbians, feminists, etc. are given voice to, as they seek to have America deliver on its promise of freedom and liberty for all. Trump, however, undermines all of this by his sheer boorish ignorance.
What defines the Trump era most of all is the ability to 'be a dick,' and not be called out for being one. The semantic flailing about otherwise merely unintentionally legitimizes something that does not deserve to be lauded.
1
I vote for "liar".
2
If Trump is a stealth post modernist, it's news to him, since he has no idea what such terms means. Better just to look at the all too clear and abundant evidence -- nothing stealth about it, though it is sometimes slick and clever and twisted -- and call it was it is, sociopathic lying.
4
Easy; liar
2
Is this masthead some kind of a joke? Liar works for me.
2
HE IS LIKE A BIGLY LIAR
5
Whether DT is a symbol of a change in our understanding of truth and reality is unimportant. What is important is that the way he expresses himself is unbelievable twaddle-- and as they say, "he is his own worst enema [sic]."
1
It's a shame that trump will never read this.
2
One thing is certain, Trump is probably the greatest manipulator the post-WW II world has ever known to the point that he has us questioning what 'truth' is. Hitler convinced a nation that Jews were "vermin" and we know what that manipulation brought about.
Modern or postmodern, President Trump is a flat-out liar.
2
He’s a classic “nut job” and a PhD in philosophy is not necessary to recognize or explain this
2
I ain't so smart as y'all, but it seems to me you're missing one obvious fact (to coin a phrase). Trump is an entertainer. He plays for his fans, and he plays well. Americans are so bored they seek entertainment from all things, even (especially?) from their government (which, if done correctly, should be about the most uninteresting thing imaginable).
On the subject of entertainment, I truly enjoy these exceptionally thoughtful treatments that postulate grand ideas about Trump's strategic thinking and motivations. But I personally think you credit him unduly. Application of Ockham's Razor would suggest the more probable explanation is that he is a fortunate idiot, the beneficiary of good timing (not to mention a large inheritance). Evidence for my assertion: "I know words, I have the best words." "I'm a ... very stable genius." He's an idiot.
Prove me wrong, Mr. President.
On the subject of entertainment, I truly enjoy these exceptionally thoughtful treatments that postulate grand ideas about Trump's strategic thinking and motivations. But I personally think you credit him unduly. Application of Ockham's Razor would suggest the more probable explanation is that he is a fortunate idiot, the beneficiary of good timing (not to mention a large inheritance). Evidence for my assertion: "I know words, I have the best words." "I'm a ... very stable genius." He's an idiot.
Prove me wrong, Mr. President.
1
Does the NY Times et. al. acts of widely publishing and broadcasting these 2140 lies make the establishment press complicit in the lies? I think so. Trump and his cronies are master manipulators of you guys.
1
Trump is a white supremacist misogynist heathen hedonist pagan moral degenerate serial adulterer sexual harasser and assaulter. Trump is a corrupt crony capitalist corporate plutocrat oligarch welfare king who inherited his wealth. Trump is cowardly hiding his personal and family income tax returns and business records from the American people in order to conceal his profitable advantage from being President of the United States. Putin and Netanyahu know what Trump is hiding. Trump is an immoral sociopath malignant narcissist by nature and nurture. Part Lucifer and part Judas. But all monster.
3
Ask Trump about being a stealth postmodernist...His answer would be fascinating!
1
Let's not complicate Mr Trump. He's just a liar.
2
Is the headline a trick question or has it been plagiarized from the Onion?
3
"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."
Psychological profile of Adolf Hitler, courtesy of the OSS
Psychological profile of Adolf Hitler, courtesy of the OSS
6
A lie by any other name would be just as vile.
4
Postmodernist or liar? they're not mutually exclusive, you know.
Put aside the meaningless idiocy of 'stealth postmodernist.' Trump is a liar, a grifter and a thug but merely a partial list to describe his deplorableness.
2
It's all for the greater good. these lies are nothing but exaggerations, which journalists do all the time by using the word "could" in every article. It's not the "truth" but it "could" be, which is basically a lie because the reader believes what "could" be as truth. And this is just a fact.
I do not doubt that Trump knows there are objective truths. The physical properties which permit him to order the launch of a nuclear missile and watch it destroy its target are objective truths. The physical properties of cell phones, computers, the internet and telecommunications networks which allow Trump to Tweet are objective truths. Trump knows this. He is just a liar.
1
Just a liar
2
In the postmodern America I am reminded of the mind of
Justice Anthony Scalia
“Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity.”
• Address to the Knights of Columbus Council 969 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana (January 2005).
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
Justice Anthony Scalia
“Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity.”
• Address to the Knights of Columbus Council 969 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana (January 2005).
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
1
Okay Thomas B. Edsall, I suspect/think you are punching below your weight and I object and resent it, not to mention the incredibly screwed up NYTs editors who have lost their compass and are this point a liability for the paper. And the arrow points to Not Ready to be Editor Dean Baquet.
That Edsall stoops so low is an indictment of the Times. Anyone paying attention knows that were Trump asked about Postmodernism all you would get is vomit. The man is so incredibly ignorant as to astound.
That Edsall stoops so low is an indictment of the Times. Anyone paying attention knows that were Trump asked about Postmodernism all you would get is vomit. The man is so incredibly ignorant as to astound.
3
Long question; short answer. He's just a liar.
6
You are entitled to have your own opinions, you are not entitled to have your own facts. Facts are facts.
5
He is just a self-serving liar and a con, as any smart New Yorker knows, as as most other people realize as well.
6
William of Occam knew the answer 700 years ago. He lies.
8
He's actually too stupid to hate.
2
He is a master manipulator dictator aspiring that reps and dems seem to be afraid of and no matter what heinous things he say so does, remains in power. I fear he will get reelected in 2020 esp if the DEMS keep recycling old white guys like Kerry and Bernie. Fresh blood please. Also a president who continually attacks the free press, the DOJ and the FBI is not to be trusted but again classic dictator playbook and the American people seem to love it. Not me!
Post modernist? What gibberish. Why try and put any kind of lipstick on this pig. Trump is a "one off"...a mistake. He represents a statistical/electoral "miscalculation" and as such is easily dismissed as an out of character blip on the otherwise semi predictable expanse of the electorates behavior. As such, he us best characterized as an accident. HRC missed the boat for many reasons but she did win the vote.
3
Answer: Just a liar.
4
Stop making excuses Thomas. He is doing great harm to civilization and lying wholesale to do so.
5
With his canary yellow look and it being so easy to peel apart everything he says, Trump is our first Post.it president. I only wish he were as easy to ball up into a wad and trash too.
4
I think calling a spade a spade is needed - He is a huckster, liar and a greedy low life.
8
On the notion that the popularity of an opinion is indicative of its truthfulness, recall Einstein's retort to the book "100 Authors Against Einstein":
“Why 100 authors? If I were wrong, then one would have been enough!”
“Why 100 authors? If I were wrong, then one would have been enough!”
1
I would opine that he question is moot.
Trump is a liar.
If you examine his business dealings Trump has always been a liar.
While some of the lies could be characterized as "puffery", they are still lies.
Trump is a liar.
If you examine his business dealings Trump has always been a liar.
While some of the lies could be characterized as "puffery", they are still lies.
Taking you at your word, that you really want to know, Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar? ...
He's a liar. Why? It's probably pathological, but that's above my pay grade. But he's so much more than that.
He could have, for instance, asked what UN and US vetting procedures are, and then sought to improve them. Instead he wrought chaos at our international airports and put panic in the hearts of immigrants.
He could have, also, asked Congress to formulate DACA legislation BEFORE rescinding his predecessor's EO. Instead, he is holding hostage the fates of almost a million youngsters raised in the USA, and using their futures as a political bargaining chip.
But I digress... To get back on track, no matter how many times a lie is repeated, it remains a lie. Obama was not born in Kenya. Global warming is not a hoax. America, pre-Trump, was not the most highly-taxed nation in the world. Mexico will not pay for the border wall. The Art of the Deal is not the best-selling book of all time. Trump did not have the largest inauguration crowd in history. Big lies, little lies, all lies.
He's a liar. Why? It's probably pathological, but that's above my pay grade. But he's so much more than that.
He could have, for instance, asked what UN and US vetting procedures are, and then sought to improve them. Instead he wrought chaos at our international airports and put panic in the hearts of immigrants.
He could have, also, asked Congress to formulate DACA legislation BEFORE rescinding his predecessor's EO. Instead, he is holding hostage the fates of almost a million youngsters raised in the USA, and using their futures as a political bargaining chip.
But I digress... To get back on track, no matter how many times a lie is repeated, it remains a lie. Obama was not born in Kenya. Global warming is not a hoax. America, pre-Trump, was not the most highly-taxed nation in the world. Mexico will not pay for the border wall. The Art of the Deal is not the best-selling book of all time. Trump did not have the largest inauguration crowd in history. Big lies, little lies, all lies.
1
To be a postmodernist, you have think about world affairs, understand what's going on, develop a critique of the trends.
Trump is a self-serving liar. He aspires to grab more money and power, because his narcissism has convinced him he deserves it. Don't pretend Trump is thoughtful. Liar covers much of Trump's scam.
Trump is a self-serving liar. He aspires to grab more money and power, because his narcissism has convinced him he deserves it. Don't pretend Trump is thoughtful. Liar covers much of Trump's scam.
To qualify the kind of behavior we have witnessed in the White House over the past year with any kind of term, be a "postmodernist "or anything else you want to call it is absolutely ludicrous. A liar is a liar, and frankly if you want to know how dangerous this president is,pay attention to what he does, not what he says.
I got 12 years of parochial education from nuns and brothers in the sixties and seventies. They were pretty clear In demonstrating to me what a lie was through their whackings and beatings. You can go through all the postmodern philosophical gyrations and mind games all you want. A lie is a lie. Trump is an Olympic grade liar. He can’t exhale without lieing. Let’s forget all the dancing around the May Pole with fancy words. Call him what he is, A LIAR.
1
Yes, he's a liar. Why is it so hard to just deal with that in standard English? I can understand why reactionary Federalists need to use big words to shelter their unfortunate bondage to a flimflam man, but why does that obligation trouble the Times? Postmodernism was an intellectual fashion item of the late sixties. That's fifty years ago, now. Even then, it had nothing whatever to do with "moral relativism," which is just a chew toy for Bible Christians. Trump is a liar. Now move on and look for actual news in places where it is to be found.
To even have a debate whether Trump is a liar or a postmodern president is to engage in the continuous normalization of this stain on our country. Trump is a liar and a con. There is no philosophy behind his lies other than his own narcissism.
Please stick to reporting the facts rather than engaging in philosophical debates, NYT. And while you're at it, please stop saying that Trump "misstates" or "claims;" he only lies. Call it what it is. You are one of the few institutions who is able to effectively stand up to him. We subscribers expect you to take this duty seriously.
Please stick to reporting the facts rather than engaging in philosophical debates, NYT. And while you're at it, please stop saying that Trump "misstates" or "claims;" he only lies. Call it what it is. You are one of the few institutions who is able to effectively stand up to him. We subscribers expect you to take this duty seriously.
1
Just a liar.
And enough with these articles trying to deconstruct or understand it. The hell with it. He's a liar, and that should be enough.
And enough with these articles trying to deconstruct or understand it. The hell with it. He's a liar, and that should be enough.
1
Liar! Liar! Pants on fire! You can dress it up anyway you want, but it's nothing but a playground retort that goes back and forth between Trump and the press. I have to give Obama credit, however. His deceitfulness was engrained in his very nature, so it didn't need to be prodded by anybody else and, in fact, was joined in on by his enablers in the press and by his adoring liberal fans. Latest example: the spike in the economy is all due to him.
1
Stealth Postmodernist? No！
Trump is a shameless liar! Period!
To put "President" and "liar" in the same sentence is an insult to our country.
In short, for someone so dishonest, unethical, deficient of integrity to be our president is an insult to all of us.
Trump is a shameless liar! Period!
To put "President" and "liar" in the same sentence is an insult to our country.
In short, for someone so dishonest, unethical, deficient of integrity to be our president is an insult to all of us.
2
A liar.
2
Which is worst for the country - a LEADER WHO IS A LIAR or a LEADER WHO DOES NOT KNOW HE IS LYING?
1
My vote: Liar.
4
Straight-up liar. Next question.
1
Edsall: Trump is a Thug. Period.
His father knew it when he was 12.
His father knew it when he was 12.
1
Trump should be shunned by all the media. The White House Press Corp should rise up in unison and say collectively we are no longer covering your constant lying since it is a disservice to the American people and to democracy. This would be a very effective treatment for a pathological, narcissistic liar. Only report factual statements from Trump and simply state all else he has said is a verifiable lie and not worth reporting. Shun the sh*thole fake president.
1
don is a traitor, that conspires with the russian oligarchs to undermine the U.S. for money. That's it!
2
Liar.
1
Just a liar. Pants on fire.
1
it's dead certain that DJTrump never consulted - or read! - any philosophers to develop his 'truth is what I want people to believe' practice. But there was Roy Cohn, the brilliantly vicious lawyer so close to Senator Joe McCarthy during the red-baiting shame of the 1950s, mentoring Trump, lying for him and teaching him to lie with a "fire for effect" philosophy. "Cohn also showed Trump how to exploit power and instill fear through a simple formula: attack, counterattack and never apologize." (Washington Post; June 17, 2016) Trump misses Cohn as noted when he said recently, "Where's my Roy Cohn?" while complaining that A.G. Jeff Sessions wasn't protecting him adequately. The Cohn impact was neatly summarized by "Mr. Trump’s wrecking ball of a presidential bid — the gleeful smearing of his opponents, the embracing of bluster as brand — has been a Roy Cohn number on a grand scale." (NY Times, June 20, 2016).
Lies, damned lies and conspiracy theories from our President... make him a unrepentant liar. "Post modernist" is a rationalization, IMHO, maybe even with a touch of sycophantism. It's going around.
Lies, damned lies and conspiracy theories from our President... make him a unrepentant liar. "Post modernist" is a rationalization, IMHO, maybe even with a touch of sycophantism. It's going around.
1
So what? Trumps a serial liar. His supporters dont care and thats the real problem. Why millions of people dont mind being serially lied to is the article i want to read. Its absolutely astonishing. Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Beavis and Butthead generation is to ignorant to realize their gullibility because they are to lazy to actually research the truth. But yet again, i believe the truth lies in the fact that millions of Americans are racist and now that Trump is President they can proudly fly their racist flags in public because "Hey, our President does."
3
Trump is no philosopher or scholar.
He’s just a garden variety criminal, who has so far escaped the law.
He’s Sociopath in Spades!
Mueller knows his TYPE! And Mueller will answer the question!
He’s just a garden variety criminal, who has so far escaped the law.
He’s Sociopath in Spades!
Mueller knows his TYPE! And Mueller will answer the question!
1
What we are witnessing here in America as initiated by trump is not new, you can call it "postmodernism" if you must but we saw this with Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Kin Jong-un just to name a few. Their pattern is the same of lying, distortion, manipulation and threats to maintain power and enrich their personal wealth. Truth is truth.Two people died in a Kentucky school the other day shot to death with a gun. That is a fact. It is the truth. It is indisputable.
Trump very simply is a liar. Those that buy into his lies or turn a blind eye to them are simply opportunists who see this an enhancing their own individual power whether they be a Paul Ryan or one of trump's base.
Trump very simply is a liar. Those that buy into his lies or turn a blind eye to them are simply opportunists who see this an enhancing their own individual power whether they be a Paul Ryan or one of trump's base.
2
It is possible that philosophical ideas, such as scepticism and relativism, have infected President Trump in a crude and second-hand way, but it would be more useful to trace the influence of Roy Cohn and Josef Goebels. Cohn was a liar and propagandist in the tradition of Josef Goebbels, the Minister of Propaganda in the Third Reich.
Goebbels believed that democracy gave its enemies the tools to destroy it. Trump is using those tools--the constant lying, the referring to the elite press as purveyors of fake news--to destroy American democracy. He assumes that the American people are stupid enough to believe him.
Goebbels believed that democracy gave its enemies the tools to destroy it. Trump is using those tools--the constant lying, the referring to the elite press as purveyors of fake news--to destroy American democracy. He assumes that the American people are stupid enough to believe him.
1
Trump a “Stealth Postmodernist?”
Well, whatever the views expressed in this article about Trump and his unfathomable relationship with truth and lies, surely the scholars quoted here would all agree on one thing-
“A liar by any other name, still stinks to high heaven.”
Well, whatever the views expressed in this article about Trump and his unfathomable relationship with truth and lies, surely the scholars quoted here would all agree on one thing-
“A liar by any other name, still stinks to high heaven.”
Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar?
Answer: A pathological Liar
Answer: A pathological Liar
3
Postmodernist!??? Nah, he's just a compulsive lying narcissistic sociopathic ignoramus grifter. Run of the mill, nothing special.
1
Edsall deserves praise for putting together such a succinct account of Trump and his relation to contemporary culture/thought. What's ironic about Trump is that his lies tend to be ones that are provable falsehoods, and do not really bring with them a terrible amount of post-modern questioning about Truth with a capital T. Whether this is because he simply lives in his own world and does not know the difference between truth and lies, or because he believes that he can pull the wool over the eyes of the public/media is difficult to say. What is scary is the degree to which those who support him are willing to accept those lies as truths, even when the lies are easily proven to be factually inaccurate. I think that Trump has possibly evolved from being a bullshitter -- someone who knows what he's selling is fake -- to something more insidious: someone who has begun to drink his own Kool-aid, seeing how tasty others find it. Pinkers claim of tribalism mentioned by Edsall is correct, but there is also a religious quality, however absurdist, to the degree to which Trump supporters are willing to abide by his falsehoods and even endorse them as the one truth. This ain't postmodernism, it's feudalism.
1
WSorse than just a liar,trump is an old-fashioned all American " booster".
All the 'BIG' words aside that Trump has never uttered , Trump is simply a crook. He is a cheap Queens, New York swindler on the big stage. I think that if Al Capone were President he would have had more decency than Trump. HE WAS A GANGSTER BUT NOT A TRAITOR.
Like the Central Park five who turned out to be innocent that Trump wanted the death penalty for , I hope WE THE PEOPLE, return the favor to him if he is guilty of treason. Let's be generous; EVERYONE else who joined the party should suffer the same fate. LET US CLEANSE THE NATION OF THIS ROT, once and for all.
Like the Central Park five who turned out to be innocent that Trump wanted the death penalty for , I hope WE THE PEOPLE, return the favor to him if he is guilty of treason. Let's be generous; EVERYONE else who joined the party should suffer the same fate. LET US CLEANSE THE NATION OF THIS ROT, once and for all.
1
America no matter where you go from here you shall carry with you the shame of selecting Don the Con as your leader.
1
Let's cut through all that intellectual verbiage and call a spade a spade: Trump is an arrogant buffoon--a serial liar and a uninformed ignoramus who would be king. To attempt a deep study of his actions is to place a value on him that doesn't exist. He is an anomaly, a happenstance-- a political afterbirth produced by an electorate gone berserk.
And besides all that, he's a damn nuisance.
And besides all that, he's a damn nuisance.
3
The objectively truthful label for Trump requires no philosophical inquiry.
If you tell me that the sun revolves around the earth, I dismiss you as an idiot. If you tell me that the earth revolves around the sun and that fact proves that man was created by god, I dismiss you as a religious fool. If you tell me that the sun only shines for/on you, I dismiss you as Trump: a shamelessly brazen self-serving liar.
However, what Trump is, how to define and label him, is not worth investigating. Should you waste your time analyzing and labeling rat excrement? The focus of scientific investigation, the collection of empirical data, analyses and hypothesis, and the focus of philosophical inquiry should be on, Why do some people adore rat excrement?
If you tell me that the sun revolves around the earth, I dismiss you as an idiot. If you tell me that the earth revolves around the sun and that fact proves that man was created by god, I dismiss you as a religious fool. If you tell me that the sun only shines for/on you, I dismiss you as Trump: a shamelessly brazen self-serving liar.
However, what Trump is, how to define and label him, is not worth investigating. Should you waste your time analyzing and labeling rat excrement? The focus of scientific investigation, the collection of empirical data, analyses and hypothesis, and the focus of philosophical inquiry should be on, Why do some people adore rat excrement?
Climbing Slippery Tresses to Treachery
Trumpunzel, Trumpunzel,
let down your golden hair.
It’s I, Russianstilskin,
with secrets here to share.
And all I want from you, dear,
is your Democracy,
plus praise for our friend, Putin.
(That’s “Vlad” to you and me.)
Trumpunzel, Trumpunzel,
let down your golden hair.
It’s I, Russianstilskin,
with secrets here to share.
And all I want from you, dear,
is your Democracy,
plus praise for our friend, Putin.
(That’s “Vlad” to you and me.)
This is a very helpful analysis of the mind-numbing phenomenon that is Donald J. Trump and I thank you for undertaking it. Sane humans know there is something very defective going on with Trump that is magnified by the perversity embodied by his tribal -- and some merely opportunistic power-and-greed mongers -- followers.
It was alarming, back in the Dubya years, to realize that an entire political party had abandoned and denied the very value of truth itself. A strong foreboding warned that we were being teed-up for the next tyrant-wannabe who had the perverse skill to inflame enough rabidity to gain power (in an apathetic electorate rightly demoralized by the sheer failure of our politics to have any meaningful use to regular people). Obama delayed but didn't prevent (and in some ways paved the way for) our descent into nihilistic, tribal authoritarianism.
Now we face an existential crisis. The ability of humans to lie, perfected in Trump, combined with an unquenchable lust for power, also embodied in Trump, may be the end of us. Or, perhaps, merely our ticket to a Trumpian hell.
It was alarming, back in the Dubya years, to realize that an entire political party had abandoned and denied the very value of truth itself. A strong foreboding warned that we were being teed-up for the next tyrant-wannabe who had the perverse skill to inflame enough rabidity to gain power (in an apathetic electorate rightly demoralized by the sheer failure of our politics to have any meaningful use to regular people). Obama delayed but didn't prevent (and in some ways paved the way for) our descent into nihilistic, tribal authoritarianism.
Now we face an existential crisis. The ability of humans to lie, perfected in Trump, combined with an unquenchable lust for power, also embodied in Trump, may be the end of us. Or, perhaps, merely our ticket to a Trumpian hell.
He just a mentally disabled LIAR, who lives in a fantasy world. He should be in a rubber room.
Call him whatever you want - liar, malignant narcissist, postmodern sociopath, money launderer, adulterer, serial bankrupt, dictator-wannabe, tax cheat, scam artist, Electoral College "winner", popularity contest "loser", racist, catnip for the press (he loves that one) - just don't call on him to understand or even recognize the gravity, importance or deeply profound and sacred mission of any of work that is set forth in his unread job description.
2
A liar.
A seventy-one year old spoiled brat who thinks no one is allowed to disagree with him or criticize him in any way.
A seventy-one year old spoiled brat who thinks no one is allowed to disagree with him or criticize him in any way.
2
A modest proposal to the editors...Every time Chump tells a lie (provable) the NYT and all other publications should print the lie verbatim and in BOLD PRINT.
I agree with Prof. Oksala- Trump is simply a liar. A pathological one, always in flux a morality-free shapeshifter who leverages every encounter into a pissing contest that he wins whether that is objectively true or not.
Oddly, you can't have a Trump without the vast enabling and cover from right wing evangelicals like Mr. Franklin Graham and Mr. Jeffress who hold OTHER people to hell and brimstone standards, but for a useful authoritarian like Trump. That is problematic. Their standards are so morally flaccid that you wonder how they can even lift their heads in their postmodern opium den to wave off all the porn stars, multiple marriages, lying, cheating, bankruptcies, absentee dad-ism, etc since they publicly declare : "That was Then" for Trump. Weirdly, the conservative Church has become the chief mainliner of nihilism into American culture. "The Truth will set you free" has become "Whatever" in the hands of these colluders. Trump is their excuse and they are his host body.
Oddly, you can't have a Trump without the vast enabling and cover from right wing evangelicals like Mr. Franklin Graham and Mr. Jeffress who hold OTHER people to hell and brimstone standards, but for a useful authoritarian like Trump. That is problematic. Their standards are so morally flaccid that you wonder how they can even lift their heads in their postmodern opium den to wave off all the porn stars, multiple marriages, lying, cheating, bankruptcies, absentee dad-ism, etc since they publicly declare : "That was Then" for Trump. Weirdly, the conservative Church has become the chief mainliner of nihilism into American culture. "The Truth will set you free" has become "Whatever" in the hands of these colluders. Trump is their excuse and they are his host body.
1
I think Trump is given too much credit here. Postmodernist? Liar? I think he's an infant with visceral and unmeetable needs.
Just a liar. Always has been.
Needs no deconstruction.
Needs no deconstruction.
1
A waste of column space. We have all met pathological liars on the playground in elementary school. Donald Trump is simply one of those guys who was lucky enough to have a wealthy father. Deep philosophical analysis about Donald Trump is intellectual onanism.
1
“Trump is a nihilist who seeks to trample, to trash, to blight, to break and to burn.”
So... he’s The Joker?
So... he’s The Joker?
1
Amoral hedonist.
32
You know he's a liar. And I know he's a liar. But he identifies as an honest man. Who are we to judge?
1
Trump is just a liar, but a liar supreme. It's literally in his blood. As the Good Doctor told US "it's in the genes". And indeed, it is. It come naturally to Trump. Used car salesmen share the same gene.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
Liar, pathological liar, nihilist, con man, tribalist, authoritarian, post-truther, postmodernist, blah.blah,blah, whatever. He needs to go.
1
Liar, simply a liar. He does not tell things from a different point of view. He lies. He will be happy to release his taxes. His campaign had nothing to do with Russia. He hasn't even been to Russia. His inauguration crows was the biggest ever. He has signed more bills than any president ever. He isn't going to be helped by the tax bill. He will be too busy to golf.
On matters big and small, he is a liar first and foremost. Let us NOT be party to dissembling or obfuscating this. He is a liar. Repeat after me: he is a liar.
On matters big and small, he is a liar first and foremost. Let us NOT be party to dissembling or obfuscating this. He is a liar. Repeat after me: he is a liar.
Of course he is a liar, but he is a liar with a lot of appeal to his very poorly informed and ultranationalist voting base. He is a classic case of a demagogue whose aim to take over as dictator is kept in check by the still functioning checks and balances in our country. If it were up to him, he will abolish the constitution which of course he has no idea about. So let us give him another title "Chief Riff Raff"
1
Liar Liar pants on fire
1
Trump is just a liar and his Cabinet and Congressional supporters are greedy sycophants and often also liars.
This scholarly discussion might have a place in a philosophy class, but not in a world where the real words in a tax law say one thing and Congressmen who support the law indicate that it says something else. It is simply a total blatant lie when what is on video recordings and witnessed by 6 other people and admitted openly to have occurred and then later denied ever to have happened.
Discussions like this add an air of respectability to Trump's lies when they merit nothing but disgust.
This scholarly discussion might have a place in a philosophy class, but not in a world where the real words in a tax law say one thing and Congressmen who support the law indicate that it says something else. It is simply a total blatant lie when what is on video recordings and witnessed by 6 other people and admitted openly to have occurred and then later denied ever to have happened.
Discussions like this add an air of respectability to Trump's lies when they merit nothing but disgust.
2
Not just a liar, Trump is a consummate liar, 'elevating' it to an art. He just can't help it.
1
Call him what you want, but if he walks like a liar and talks like a liar, he's is a liar.
1
The answer of course is that Trump is just a liar, pure and simple. His ascendence is not due to any machinations of his less than stellar intellectual capacity but is more a reflection of what we the people have become. Its not just American infrastructure that is crumbling due to disrepair. The education of the population as a whole has been steadily declining, making the US one of the least educated western industrialized nations. This breeds ignorance. Approximately forty percent of the country are blind tribalistic xenophobes who really have no intellectual appreciation for what America and its government is supposed to represent. They care nothing about truth, justice or the American way. What they care about is that they were blessed with a buffoon president who thinks like them. Racist, xenophobic and white nationalist. He doesn't use dog whistles. He comes right out with it and throws his racism in your face with no pretense to any sore of higher value. They know he is a liar but this is exactly why they support him. He is their liar. They will support him right or wrong, and truth be damned.
2
While I agree that political tribalism has been undervalued as a motivator of “movements”, it is much more so on the right than on the left. The 30% that fall for any and all authoritarianism, be they rigid Roman Catholics who turn a blind eye to child molesting priests, or white religious fundamentalists who support a senatorial candidate creditably accused of being a sexual predator of teen aged girls...are more prevalent of the conservative side and those that follow strict religious cults.
But Trump is simply just a con man, albeit a very skilled one, who understands human nature and is completely amoral and shameless in his lies to gullible people. Whether he is selling a phony university, streaks, water, whatever...he is into shearing the sheep. By ascribing a deeper philosophical motive is to miss the simple point — he is a liar, has always been a liar and will always be a liar.
His 30% “base” will not leave, they will not “see the light”, they will not switch political allegiances and we shouldn’t wait for them to do so; nor read into that fact that Trump has more power than he actually does. We just need to focus on the 70% who are not part his cult and move beyond being too concerned in analyzing his “base”.
But Trump is simply just a con man, albeit a very skilled one, who understands human nature and is completely amoral and shameless in his lies to gullible people. Whether he is selling a phony university, streaks, water, whatever...he is into shearing the sheep. By ascribing a deeper philosophical motive is to miss the simple point — he is a liar, has always been a liar and will always be a liar.
His 30% “base” will not leave, they will not “see the light”, they will not switch political allegiances and we shouldn’t wait for them to do so; nor read into that fact that Trump has more power than he actually does. We just need to focus on the 70% who are not part his cult and move beyond being too concerned in analyzing his “base”.
1
Postmodernist? What?? This is way too much navel-gazing. He's a liar. He always has been a liar. He always will be a liar. That's how he got to be President. He's a good liar.
1
"Is Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar?"
In a word, Trump is a: liar.
Trump always has be and always will be a liar. Such is the way of a con man, cheat, scam artist.
In a word, Trump is a: liar.
Trump always has be and always will be a liar. Such is the way of a con man, cheat, scam artist.
1
Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar?
He is a liar, but not just a liar. He's a phony, a fraud and a con man. He's a racist, a misogynist, a philanderer, and a sexual predator. He's devoid of any morality. And he's a liar.
He is a liar, but not just a liar. He's a phony, a fraud and a con man. He's a racist, a misogynist, a philanderer, and a sexual predator. He's devoid of any morality. And he's a liar.
7
A Big, Beautiful Liar. The BEST Liar. Seriously.
59
He's a liar. His intellect is less than skin deep and he lacks empathy. He has no moral center. He is more Luddite than postmodern.
2
Just a liar.
2
A liar, period
1
I learn more from Edsall's columns than from any of the great NYTimes writers. He has deftly summarized postmodern interpretations and put Trump in his place: Liar.
2
Trump is the reincarnation of Nero.
2
The subject of this opinion should include the Republicans, who have found their Dear Leader.
Just a liar. Stealth Postmodernist is too long a phrase for his attention span.
4
LIAR
4
If someone in DAVOS would just stab him in the neck, it wouldn't matter how stealthy he isn't.
1
You should have a vote box by the article heading.
Here is one vote for liar...he's such a big liar maybe we could make that two votes for lair.
Here is one vote for liar...he's such a big liar maybe we could make that two votes for lair.
1
Occam's Razor...liar.
1
Trump is nothing. Nothing at all, beyond being a befuddled, arrogant, stupid old man. He was born rich, but was always fairly stupid, and with the onset of age he has become befuddled. That is all he is, and any analysis beyond that is foolish. Why do journalists spend time trying to intelligently analyze a befuddled old man that is nothing more than that ???
5
He is a liar. Plain, simple and obvious.
4
Donald Trump thinks about four things.
1. Money
2. Sex.
3. How to get more power.
4. How to get people to love him.
Your are making too much out of a simple mind.
1. Money
2. Sex.
3. How to get more power.
4. How to get people to love him.
Your are making too much out of a simple mind.
7
A professional liar.
2
Just a liar.
1
Think there's no such thing as objective truth?
Swing a hammer and hit a nail. Hit the wrong nail, the one on your thumb, and you'll darn well know what objective truth is!
If you don't have enough food to feed your family, or pay the light bill, you already know what objective truth is, and all the philosophers and all the discussion and debate won't put food on your table or turn on your lights.
Donald Trump is simply a selfish, ignorant, arrogant, dishonest, tasteless, immoral boor. He's a bully and sociopathic in that he has no empathy or even sympathy for anyone, but fakes it to sucker people into giving him what he wants.
As the title suggests, he's just a liar. Period.
His best quality as President is his blatant incompetence and inability to get ANYTHING done, and what he has gotten done has been the work of others for which he has lied and taken credit, lied by pretending to understand what he cannot comprehend, as he lies about everything.
He even thinks he can lie his way past Mueller, or, if he can't, can fire him.
The question isn't what Trump is, it's why so many Americans are willing to accept from him what they have furiously rejected repeatedly in others.
Swing a hammer and hit a nail. Hit the wrong nail, the one on your thumb, and you'll darn well know what objective truth is!
If you don't have enough food to feed your family, or pay the light bill, you already know what objective truth is, and all the philosophers and all the discussion and debate won't put food on your table or turn on your lights.
Donald Trump is simply a selfish, ignorant, arrogant, dishonest, tasteless, immoral boor. He's a bully and sociopathic in that he has no empathy or even sympathy for anyone, but fakes it to sucker people into giving him what he wants.
As the title suggests, he's just a liar. Period.
His best quality as President is his blatant incompetence and inability to get ANYTHING done, and what he has gotten done has been the work of others for which he has lied and taken credit, lied by pretending to understand what he cannot comprehend, as he lies about everything.
He even thinks he can lie his way past Mueller, or, if he can't, can fire him.
The question isn't what Trump is, it's why so many Americans are willing to accept from him what they have furiously rejected repeatedly in others.
5
Just a liar.
6
Ockham's razor - a liar. Why the Times ran this editorial and encouraged this intellectual pretentiousness is beyond me....
3
While the NYT staff gets lost over in the Philosophy Corner of the Bookshop.....the rest of us need to look out the window into the Real World.
It matters not who is post-modernist and who isnt.
Nor does it matter who is lying.........
Over in the Philosophy Corner, they remain convinced that the world created by the New Deal is an ever lasting frame of reference, a vision of pure truth, justice, and the American Way. The entire world has a god-given unalienable right to immigrate to the United States. That the USA truly IS responsible for every moral outrage in the world since the begining of time. That the Civil Rights exposes "white" people(nobody has ever clearly defined who "white people" are...other than to say "its not me...its those Other whtie people") for the most hideous, murderous, inhumane form of slavery that mankind has ever known an insult to the rest of the world which is completely non-racist.
Well.....the NYT paradigm of America is shattered. Its Dead. Dead as Teddy Kennedy's cold, decomposing body.
The world is over-populated. There are no more unexplored frontiers for America to invade. Our policies are no longer based on immigration for the sake of cheap labor....our policies are based on Teddy Kennedy's Immigration Law to allow refugees to take advantage of US wealth while they regroup to return home and exact vengeance on their enemies....
Ellis Island closed in the 1950s..........its over.
Donald Trump has become "MacArthur with a Chainsaw"..
It matters not who is post-modernist and who isnt.
Nor does it matter who is lying.........
Over in the Philosophy Corner, they remain convinced that the world created by the New Deal is an ever lasting frame of reference, a vision of pure truth, justice, and the American Way. The entire world has a god-given unalienable right to immigrate to the United States. That the USA truly IS responsible for every moral outrage in the world since the begining of time. That the Civil Rights exposes "white" people(nobody has ever clearly defined who "white people" are...other than to say "its not me...its those Other whtie people") for the most hideous, murderous, inhumane form of slavery that mankind has ever known an insult to the rest of the world which is completely non-racist.
Well.....the NYT paradigm of America is shattered. Its Dead. Dead as Teddy Kennedy's cold, decomposing body.
The world is over-populated. There are no more unexplored frontiers for America to invade. Our policies are no longer based on immigration for the sake of cheap labor....our policies are based on Teddy Kennedy's Immigration Law to allow refugees to take advantage of US wealth while they regroup to return home and exact vengeance on their enemies....
Ellis Island closed in the 1950s..........its over.
Donald Trump has become "MacArthur with a Chainsaw"..
2
‘I never had sex with that woman’
‘If you like your plan you can keep your plan ‘
‘Read my lips, no new taxes’
‘I am not a crook’
Etc., etc.
‘If you like your plan you can keep your plan ‘
‘Read my lips, no new taxes’
‘I am not a crook’
Etc., etc.
13
This is complete classless lying, complete ignorance and a complete lack of integrity on all levels. We should not allow this to permeate our culture as something normal. It is not normal it is a sickness. Lying is Lying and not acceptable, that is what we teach our children from the moment they can speak. You cannot have a healthy society when it is full of willful Liars.
Why does the media keep trying to understand this? There is no understanding it cause there is nothing here to understand. It is simply wrong and can get people killed. This is backwards think and extreme incompetence. The Peter Principle is at play in a huge way it appears globally, maybe no turning back now, as it is permeating all levels of society and business. We are doomed. I guess there is no reason for Generation X and below to worry about retirement anymore and fund our 401K's, we won't be here and neither will our 401K's. Sorry Wall Street!
Why does the media keep trying to understand this? There is no understanding it cause there is nothing here to understand. It is simply wrong and can get people killed. This is backwards think and extreme incompetence. The Peter Principle is at play in a huge way it appears globally, maybe no turning back now, as it is permeating all levels of society and business. We are doomed. I guess there is no reason for Generation X and below to worry about retirement anymore and fund our 401K's, we won't be here and neither will our 401K's. Sorry Wall Street!
6
What a silly knot to tie oneself into to explain the age-old phenomenon of a huckster accidentally gaining power for what will likely be a very short time. While painful to experience, it hardly warrants such an overblown resort to navel-gazing. A relatively small number of people in very specific places voted against the huckster's opponent, inaccurately determining that he couldn't do the country that much harm and delivered him to everyone's surprise to the summit of executive power. This is simply the power of highly manipulative gerrymandering and discouraging voting. No aesthetics, no simulacra, no pastiche, no art movement describes him nor is one needed. He is a glitch and we need to fix the system that delivered him.
9
The two most important possessions anyone has is their word and their integrity. Trump has neither. And makes no bones about it.
4
Trump is the proof of the adage: "Life is a lot easier if you don't care"
1
Oh please. "Truth is not found but made".
I'm an engineer. If I decide to "make" a truth that differs from objective reality, the bridge falls down.
And peer review is overrated. If I "make" a truth that differs from objective reality, and convince all my peers to believe it... the bridge will STILL fall down.
Good luck to all the philosophers living in their worlds of "made" truths. Please keep them far, far away from making anything real.
I'm an engineer. If I decide to "make" a truth that differs from objective reality, the bridge falls down.
And peer review is overrated. If I "make" a truth that differs from objective reality, and convince all my peers to believe it... the bridge will STILL fall down.
Good luck to all the philosophers living in their worlds of "made" truths. Please keep them far, far away from making anything real.
8
"...truth and power have become uncoupled..." This explains the problem to a great extent. Trump and his 1 or 2 or 3% tribe equate wealth and power and what they are after really is power. Hence, the voracious accumulation of wealth at all costs (to others) is justified in their minds. Truth can get in the way of acquisition of power, so they jettison truth as they would any baggage that slows them down. God help us if the federal legislature does not recognize this and do something to prevent absolute consolidation of power--before ALL the members of congress are subsequently purchased and it will be too late.
I can't believe anyone would seriously entertain this question.
4
He is just a liar, Mr. Edsall, and a very stellar one at that.
91
I agree. After wading through this maze of baffle-gab and academic back-and-forth, which flashed me back to the worst college courses I ever suffered through, I remain convinced that the man tell self-serving lies. Period. End of story. As Freud is supposed to have said. "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
2
Trump simply rode the tide of the Republican's "contract with America"where lies and innuendo became part of their ploy to start dismantling government and reshape it to their beliefs. Fox news came into being during that time dispensing vitriol and lies using their motto truth and balance. He has never denied nor asserted who he , because he has always been a prevaricator , he simply does't care . The stage was set , because there will always be a part of the populace who will believe anything but the truth . Bombarded daily with facts that aren't facts these untruths become entrenched in minds that are ripe for the influence of a demagogue.
1
Trump's idea of 'Truth' is whatever suits his purpose (or lack thereof) in any particular instant. Not sure that qualifies as 'postmodern'.
Seriously, Trump is not post modern: he is pre - modern.
For me, post modernism is a reaction to "modern". It assumes you have an understanding of "modern", rational, scientific knowledge and also understand that it is not absolute, that there are other "voices", ways to understand it too. Tribalism and just plain self centered lying and ignorance is pre - modern.
That is Trump represents regression, not progression.
For me, post modernism is a reaction to "modern". It assumes you have an understanding of "modern", rational, scientific knowledge and also understand that it is not absolute, that there are other "voices", ways to understand it too. Tribalism and just plain self centered lying and ignorance is pre - modern.
That is Trump represents regression, not progression.
2
It’s much simpler than that. Groups that perceived themselves as disadvantaged, often with justification, seized on postermodernism as a technique to attack the majority narrative and promote their own counternarratives. Indeed, the very intellectuals (Foucault, Derida, Butler) who developed it, and its formidable critical apparatus, intended such use as an implicit or explicit goal.
Now the majority has adopted, crudely but obviously effectively, the same methods to counterattack the counternarratives and re-promote its own narrative. It should surprise no one that this counterattack is led by a liar and charlatan with gifts for theatrics and deceit.
The time for the pyrotechnics of postmodernist criticism and deconstructionism is long past. While these techniques in the hands of adepts display a certain undeniable aesthetic and virtuosity, we must return to the quotidian task of finding the best candidate for objective truth we can, subject to whatever qualifications and disclaimers may be necessary or appropriate. Postmodern criticism has become an invitation, not to insight and understanding, but to propaganda, confusion and chaos.
Now the majority has adopted, crudely but obviously effectively, the same methods to counterattack the counternarratives and re-promote its own narrative. It should surprise no one that this counterattack is led by a liar and charlatan with gifts for theatrics and deceit.
The time for the pyrotechnics of postmodernist criticism and deconstructionism is long past. While these techniques in the hands of adepts display a certain undeniable aesthetic and virtuosity, we must return to the quotidian task of finding the best candidate for objective truth we can, subject to whatever qualifications and disclaimers may be necessary or appropriate. Postmodern criticism has become an invitation, not to insight and understanding, but to propaganda, confusion and chaos.
1
There is data. Measurable observable truth. "How many troops crossed a certain bridge between these dates". Then there are the conclusions drawn from this data. Our disagreements are usually about the conclusions drawn from agreed upon observable truth. Now we are told by the highest authority in the land that data/truth is irrelevant. This president is like a toddler who just wants something. No reason is needed. We have just about reached the point where reason will have no traction. Indeed in the right wing base we are there. So the question is how do those of us who see the importance of drawing conclusions from data/truth, operate in a system controlled by those for whom the only truth is their desire for power?
1
It is small wonder that the author, media and the political Left are in an uproar about Donald Trump. This is mainly because he knows how the rules of the political game are played and masterfully is able to use them against his opponents. That is exactly what you are seeing when it comes to his dealings with the Democrats and CNN. The deranged frenzy over Trump isn't about what he says or does, it's because he knows how to beat his opponents and loves every minute of it.
1
Reading Heer's cited quote...is incredibly ironic. That paragraph and the way it is written, is to me the ultimate demonstration of intensifying class disparities. It says a lot already about why Trump won, I'm not sure the author realizes that.
2
Postmodern “ narrative” theory has a lot to answer for.
I’ve always suspected it’s relativation of truth was both wrong and dangerous. I now wish I were wrong on that.
I’ve always suspected it’s relativation of truth was both wrong and dangerous. I now wish I were wrong on that.
1
Do not take any analysis of Trump lightly. As things stand, I'm coming to believe Trump will be reelected in 2020. His junta just pulled off a highly tailored tax law. Thinking of it in Trump terms, we may have misunderstood it. It may be the con of the century. He didn't create it. But it will keep a bull market roaring through 2018, some say 2019. And it will sucker enough adherents to win him the 2020 election. The "after us, the deluge" crowd is growing. I'm greatly heartened by the surge in numbers of women candidates for various elections. But what is greatly needed are plans and united effort. The left is still greatly fragmented, and remember, the left, even to the left, can never be right.
1
As one of the cited authors suggested, the literature on authoritarianism has far more to teach us about Trump than postmodernism. After all, this is about power, and not truth, except in the service of power.
1
Maybe. But while post-modernism has its place, perhaps in the reading of literature, art, and cultural theory, and in my world view as a sloppy second to Kantian philosophy, it has no place in politics. There needs to be a search for truth, a seeking of fact as guidance for action, a schema within a recognised and changing context.
2
All this speculation about tribalism and postmodernism, etc., really is very interesting. But consider Trump on the basis of all the facts which are available, and then describe what seems to account for all those facts most simply. Trump has no close friends let alone a group with which he has affiliated himself, so he may sound like a tribal minded person, but to which tribe could he possibly belong? Trump never has displayed any set of convictions or philosophy about life, he could be a hedonist but that requires nothing but a strong preference for pleasure -- like trying to determine the politics of someone who likes sugar. Trump's complacency about the truth does not come from some conclusion that truth is relative, but it is the result of illustrating attitudes with any old apparent examples that seem to fit, regardless of their accuracy. That's just manipulation of people's feelings, not some statement about the elusive nature of what is or is not true.
Thoughtful article. Some excerpts are a bit rarified but the anthropologist nails it with coalition leaders. I honestly believe Trump could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose much, if any, support. There would always be excuses -- "He was justified because the victim attackedd him first. The same would apply if Trump were to deliver his State of the Union address in Urdu -- or turn around and moon the audience. ("Jet lag" or "dehydration" would be brought up as an excuse..)
In so many politicians world, there are no facts, only their own opinions. Sadly this is true of the majority of the electorate as well.
To paraphrase a principle of free speech attributed to Thomas Jefferson, in a society where the press is free and people are literate, all is safe because the truth will ultimately prevail. Yes, while we hold certain "truths to be self evident," what is deemed true has mostly been a function of what the majority believes (even when it flies in the face of science). Put another way, democracy is not for dummies. Now more than ever, we need our fact checkers, our experienced peer reviewers, and our moral and intellectual thought leaders, as well as net neutrality, to help us make sense of the constant drone of dis- and mis-information. And, we need a press and a government that is not so distracted by every tweet that it misses the larger and more important truths.
1
For Pete's sake, Thomas, what you are discussing is worth considering if Donald Trump is re-elected, as well as his enablers, the Republicans in Congress. American voting apathy has enabled at best a 30% of voters ,and with the help of the Electoral College, to elect an entirely disqualified person to our highest office. I expect the American voter to show him the door in 2020 and this to his Congressional sympathizers by the end of this year. The other enablers, the Limbaughs of this country, the Fox network and their allies, will then be deemed inconsequential and left to talk among themselves.
2
I too think that Mr. Trump is not a postmodernist, but a nihilist. He, of course, is not intellectual enough to understand the many varied arguments of postmodernism. However, we must remember what Nietzsche maintained: "There is no truth, only interpretation." Many postmodernists find Nietzsche's thought as the foundation of their thought, and certainly Foulcault was one of them. It may be good to have a Donald Trump for no other reason that we examine ourselves and learn the valid and invalid uses of such radical critiques of reason.
3
I don't think anyone could claim that Trump consciously adopted Postmodern theory, but I think it is fair to say the more widespread appearance of postmodernism in American culture ("meta"commercials or music or comedy, for example, or the concept of multiple truths, or the revision of history to consider perspectives other than those of the victors) have become even further distorted and used by the right. Initially, the idea of multiple truths was abhorrent to conservative Christians, but it has since been adopted to allow for multiple meanings, revisionist history that attempts to reinforce the natural superiority of the victors, and "alternative facts." It is worthwhile to consider the ways this simplified and distorted postmodernism has been co-opted by the very groups against which it developed. That said, I appreciate the various views in the article insisting that we not make a straightforward comparison of Trump's lies with postmodernism or postmodern theory. The nuances of the space between his shockingly brazen lies and postmodern theory are worth exploring to understand something about what is going on in the U.S. right now.
Trump's working basis is fear and ignorance. His own and other's. Everything else he does is a manifestation of that.
1
One of the many problems with Trump's presidency isn't just his willingness to lie, but the willingness of millions of his supporters (as well as conservative media) to one minute enthusiastically defend those lies, and another minute offer cynical excuses for those same lies.
However, what is needed to understand this cultural phenomenon is actual thought. The scholars quoted in this article dedicate their careers to thinking through complex social and political problems, but this article presents this work as a kind of non-thought: a series of quotations, thinly stitched together with transition phrases that mask the fact that these thinkers deeply disagree profoundly on important questions of political and social theory, and are not talking about the same thing when they answer this question.
This article struck me as an abdication of responsibility to think through the urgent political crises of our time -- Edsall has the ears of two dozen eminent scholars and, it seems, fails to ask a follow up question: if not postmodernism...then what?
After all, as most of the scholars in this article point out, bringing out "postmodernism" (a term inconsistently and contradictorily defined by the article) as a whipping horse isn't illuminating much.
However, what is needed to understand this cultural phenomenon is actual thought. The scholars quoted in this article dedicate their careers to thinking through complex social and political problems, but this article presents this work as a kind of non-thought: a series of quotations, thinly stitched together with transition phrases that mask the fact that these thinkers deeply disagree profoundly on important questions of political and social theory, and are not talking about the same thing when they answer this question.
This article struck me as an abdication of responsibility to think through the urgent political crises of our time -- Edsall has the ears of two dozen eminent scholars and, it seems, fails to ask a follow up question: if not postmodernism...then what?
After all, as most of the scholars in this article point out, bringing out "postmodernism" (a term inconsistently and contradictorily defined by the article) as a whipping horse isn't illuminating much.
2
These conjectures of whether or not Trump is postmodernist are dangerous in that they are feeding the obsfucations by his surrogates that claim fake news and flip back and forth on the Trump position on policy aka the daca policy etc. The media better be careful or they will fall into the trap of their own making when they start being phiososophical about the difference between a truth and a lie.
1
We know from the psychology of human interactions that people's minds instinctively give preference to emotional expressions over rational assertions. It takes no philosophical contemplations or logical analysis to determine this fact, it only requires the ability to perceive what people feel and mean in our interactions with them. Try listening to a rational argument from a distressed and agitated person, you will find it hard to accept their argument as reasonable when they are projected such strong emotions. Then listen to an appeal for help from a person in distress who is not making any sense with the words being uttered, and you will have no problem feeling that person's distress and feeling sympathy. That kind of emotional communication is as old as the brains of homo sapiens. Trump is not some kind of postmodern genius, he's just a guy who knows how to manipulate people's feelings from reading their emotional reactions to himself.
I enjoyed the distinctions made here. I worry about the effect on our society and conventions that is occurring because of the blurring of truth..."truthiness" someone said, that we seem so afflicted with today.
One thing that is crystal clear to me though, is that Trump couldn't possibly think so deeply as to think he will purposely destroy democratic norms as his legacy.
His is a world of the present moment...no prior thought, no philosophy, nihilism pure and simple.
One thing that is crystal clear to me though, is that Trump couldn't possibly think so deeply as to think he will purposely destroy democratic norms as his legacy.
His is a world of the present moment...no prior thought, no philosophy, nihilism pure and simple.
Put me down on the side of "LIES". Sometimes he gets caught (Trump U), other times his army of lawyers simply wear down the victims (many contractors who needed to take pennies on the dollar), and particularly now that he is president, who can keep up with his words and the crises they manufacture ?
The media has done a good job of calling out his "false of misleading claims" (a.k.a. lies) but now, 2140 presidential ones later, can we just agree to put the onus back on him? Let's assume that what he says is probably a lie, and keep it that way until he can prove differently. And "somebody said that" doesn't count.
The media has done a good job of calling out his "false of misleading claims" (a.k.a. lies) but now, 2140 presidential ones later, can we just agree to put the onus back on him? Let's assume that what he says is probably a lie, and keep it that way until he can prove differently. And "somebody said that" doesn't count.
1
Thanks Mr. Edsall for this. I've published an essay about Trump entitled "Major Miscalculations." In it I quote from David Harvey, who wrote, way back in 1991 in his "The Condition of Postmodernity":
"…deconstructionism ended up, in spite of the best intentions of its more radical practitioners, by reducing knowledge and meaning to a rubble of signifiers. It thereby produced a condition of nihilism that prepared the ground for the re-emergence of a charismatic politics and even more simplistic propositions than those which were deconstructed."
Trump did not have to absorb or construct his inclinations from formal academic immersion in the school of intellectual trends. Reaching back to an old notion, the "spirit of the age," one soaks up from the culture, for better or worse, these broad and troubling directions. Real estate mogul and reality show TV host with his delightful "you're fired" power; our unprotected working class saw in him what they long ago lost... Who better than a successful businessman to run a business culture?
I'll stay with my two trains of bad historical precedents: the U.S. in the 1850's, and the fate of Weimar Germany in the 1930's, at the hands of an embittered World War I veteran and racial theorist, an artist who didn't immerse himself either in the higher circles of Germany's fine educational system, but managed to express the worst aspects of the spirit of his age in Germany.
"…deconstructionism ended up, in spite of the best intentions of its more radical practitioners, by reducing knowledge and meaning to a rubble of signifiers. It thereby produced a condition of nihilism that prepared the ground for the re-emergence of a charismatic politics and even more simplistic propositions than those which were deconstructed."
Trump did not have to absorb or construct his inclinations from formal academic immersion in the school of intellectual trends. Reaching back to an old notion, the "spirit of the age," one soaks up from the culture, for better or worse, these broad and troubling directions. Real estate mogul and reality show TV host with his delightful "you're fired" power; our unprotected working class saw in him what they long ago lost... Who better than a successful businessman to run a business culture?
I'll stay with my two trains of bad historical precedents: the U.S. in the 1850's, and the fate of Weimar Germany in the 1930's, at the hands of an embittered World War I veteran and racial theorist, an artist who didn't immerse himself either in the higher circles of Germany's fine educational system, but managed to express the worst aspects of the spirit of his age in Germany.
One take on "postmodernism" is that its an extravagant variation on "idealism"--taken as "idea-ism".
Reality does not comes to knowers preconceived; they first invent the ideas/concepts/classifications/words--then apply them.
Conceptual schemes evolve--as in the history of science, and so too the NATURE of reality--physical, psychological and political/economic.
Truth is right-text; Falsehood wrong-text. Without text there is no knowledge, no truth and reality has no nature.
But that does not imply that all texts are equally good--true.
Of course this is all over Trump's head. And the issue itself confers a fake dignity.
Trump does have a "philosophy" though. It's the same as Goebbels--"Repetition makes belief--even dogmatic belief--i.e faith"-- belief/faith is then applied (as in dream, delusion and hallucination) to reality.
This is not Postmodernism; its Quixotic. And more commonly religiosity--overlaying god-story myth on reality.
It's also free (from law and logic) marketing. That's Trump. Repeat the slogans often enough--add some jingles and pretty girls--and you can sell anything. Suckers are born every minute. Truth is irrelevant to free (from law and logic) marketing.
And so Trump sells political snake oil, preying on those praying for panaceas--all the way to his bank.
Reality does not comes to knowers preconceived; they first invent the ideas/concepts/classifications/words--then apply them.
Conceptual schemes evolve--as in the history of science, and so too the NATURE of reality--physical, psychological and political/economic.
Truth is right-text; Falsehood wrong-text. Without text there is no knowledge, no truth and reality has no nature.
But that does not imply that all texts are equally good--true.
Of course this is all over Trump's head. And the issue itself confers a fake dignity.
Trump does have a "philosophy" though. It's the same as Goebbels--"Repetition makes belief--even dogmatic belief--i.e faith"-- belief/faith is then applied (as in dream, delusion and hallucination) to reality.
This is not Postmodernism; its Quixotic. And more commonly religiosity--overlaying god-story myth on reality.
It's also free (from law and logic) marketing. That's Trump. Repeat the slogans often enough--add some jingles and pretty girls--and you can sell anything. Suckers are born every minute. Truth is irrelevant to free (from law and logic) marketing.
And so Trump sells political snake oil, preying on those praying for panaceas--all the way to his bank.
You are over intellectualizing this problem to a degree that obfuscates essential concepts.
Because of the internet, cable tv, and social media, communities (tribes) have become isolated within their own preferred communications channels (effectively echo chambers) such that they only receive news that reflects their own point of view and are not exposed to differing or opposing views of other tribes. This has resulted in each tribe reaching a "consensus" within itself but ignoring or discounting the "consensus" of other tribes. "Consensus" from other tribes has become "fake news" or "lies." In other words, there no longer is a consensus BETWEEN tribes.
The NYT has greatly exacerbated this problem by allowing itself to become tribalized by the Liberal Intellectual Tribal Elite. The LITE has done very well over the past 30 years of globalization and automation. There is also a Conservative Elite (CE) with its own news echo chambers that has also done well. The LITE and CE live well in expensive gentrified communities that economically exclude other tribes. Working Class tribes (WCTs) have fared very poorly over this time: Life expectancy is decreasing due to despair from falling wages, decreasing living standards, increasing maternal and infant mortality, inability to move up in social class. This is a big problem that has been ignored by the CE and LITE ruling class. As a result, the WCT no longer trusts the LITE and CE news and listens to Trump's Tweets instead.
Because of the internet, cable tv, and social media, communities (tribes) have become isolated within their own preferred communications channels (effectively echo chambers) such that they only receive news that reflects their own point of view and are not exposed to differing or opposing views of other tribes. This has resulted in each tribe reaching a "consensus" within itself but ignoring or discounting the "consensus" of other tribes. "Consensus" from other tribes has become "fake news" or "lies." In other words, there no longer is a consensus BETWEEN tribes.
The NYT has greatly exacerbated this problem by allowing itself to become tribalized by the Liberal Intellectual Tribal Elite. The LITE has done very well over the past 30 years of globalization and automation. There is also a Conservative Elite (CE) with its own news echo chambers that has also done well. The LITE and CE live well in expensive gentrified communities that economically exclude other tribes. Working Class tribes (WCTs) have fared very poorly over this time: Life expectancy is decreasing due to despair from falling wages, decreasing living standards, increasing maternal and infant mortality, inability to move up in social class. This is a big problem that has been ignored by the CE and LITE ruling class. As a result, the WCT no longer trusts the LITE and CE news and listens to Trump's Tweets instead.
So much intellectualizing of trump when the last sentence defines the very essence of the man.
I did find Durkheim's comments about the role wealth may play frighteningly informative.
"The less limited one feels, the more intolerable all limitation appears."
Defiance.
Another one of his profoundly destructive characteristics and possibly the one that holds even more trepidation for me than the others. When, god forbid, "his" generals tell him, "do not use the big button" - he will. Because they told him not to.
I did find Durkheim's comments about the role wealth may play frighteningly informative.
"The less limited one feels, the more intolerable all limitation appears."
Defiance.
Another one of his profoundly destructive characteristics and possibly the one that holds even more trepidation for me than the others. When, god forbid, "his" generals tell him, "do not use the big button" - he will. Because they told him not to.
1
"If tribalism has begun to supplant traditional partisanship, their argument suggests, lying in politics will metastasize as traditional constraints continue to fall by the wayside."
While I agree with the sentiments, I feel that they have been written decades too late.
Tribalism has always been near the surface of politics in the US. Our Constitution was written with exceptions specifically for slaves, who were black, and native tribes, who were not of the colonists. Throughout the decades, the rise and fall of both mores and laws have been driven by tribalism based on perceived whiteness. Modern tribalism based on Christian fitness has its roots in movements from the 1800s.
As for lying in politics, we've had more and more lying since the 1980s, when a president ignored the will of Congress, arguably committed treason, fibbed about it all, and received no real consequences for his actions.
It's been a standard with policies written primarily to benefit the wealthy that are spun as gold for the poor and middle class, without any ballot box consequences for selling us fools' gold.
It has been a standard since a president told us that a country that was no threat to us had weapons of mass destruction, based on false intelligence and propaganda created by their own people.
Trump does not stand as completely beyond the bounds of what has gone before. He stands as its precocious, puerile and pitiless exemplar.
While I agree with the sentiments, I feel that they have been written decades too late.
Tribalism has always been near the surface of politics in the US. Our Constitution was written with exceptions specifically for slaves, who were black, and native tribes, who were not of the colonists. Throughout the decades, the rise and fall of both mores and laws have been driven by tribalism based on perceived whiteness. Modern tribalism based on Christian fitness has its roots in movements from the 1800s.
As for lying in politics, we've had more and more lying since the 1980s, when a president ignored the will of Congress, arguably committed treason, fibbed about it all, and received no real consequences for his actions.
It's been a standard with policies written primarily to benefit the wealthy that are spun as gold for the poor and middle class, without any ballot box consequences for selling us fools' gold.
It has been a standard since a president told us that a country that was no threat to us had weapons of mass destruction, based on false intelligence and propaganda created by their own people.
Trump does not stand as completely beyond the bounds of what has gone before. He stands as its precocious, puerile and pitiless exemplar.
1
This brave new postmodern world has proven fertile ground for Trump. He may not understand how or why, but yet he benefits greatly from the devaluation of truth and the concomitant devaluation of human life.
" 59 percent,... agreed that the Trump administration “regularly makes false claims up,” but, ... 52 percent said news organizations “regularly produce false stories.”
In the media (Rupert Murdoch) and in politics (the GOP) the Right has practiced cynical 'post-modernism' for so long it is impossible for an observer to know if they swallow the kool-aid or only pretend, e.g whether they ARE racist or only play one in politics. See also their worship of Saint Ronnie, the vapid early Alzheimers commercial barker.
So when 52% of Americans distrust FOX news or MSNBC, some portion are kool-aid swallowers, and others, accurately reject the falsehoods from the Right.
The survey would be far more useful if it sorted unbelievers into the FOX audience or the MSM audience.
The democracy is obviously in more trouble the larger the fraction of the electorate rejecting reality.
In the media (Rupert Murdoch) and in politics (the GOP) the Right has practiced cynical 'post-modernism' for so long it is impossible for an observer to know if they swallow the kool-aid or only pretend, e.g whether they ARE racist or only play one in politics. See also their worship of Saint Ronnie, the vapid early Alzheimers commercial barker.
So when 52% of Americans distrust FOX news or MSNBC, some portion are kool-aid swallowers, and others, accurately reject the falsehoods from the Right.
The survey would be far more useful if it sorted unbelievers into the FOX audience or the MSM audience.
The democracy is obviously in more trouble the larger the fraction of the electorate rejecting reality.
Over the years, The Times has published a number of favorable articles about post-modernism and columns by post-modernists, without bothering to adequately address the relationship of post-modernism to objective truth. When Trump the liar was elected President, I couldn't help but think that postmodernists (and the Times) got the President they deserve. Glad someone at the Times finally woke up and realized that it had some 'splainin' to do.
1
"Sure! My husband beats me. He's just frustrated by his job. He really loves me."
This Nation seems to be suffering from 'battered truth or Stockholm syndrome.
This Nation seems to be suffering from 'battered truth or Stockholm syndrome.
1
Such an explanation could only be found in the fact that beyond the 2016 election, which the President repeatedly claims was won by "us", there has been little to confirm that either he has a program which can or should be promulgated, or that his conception of political office is anything other than winning. This basic tendency to ignore the demands of political office in favor of self-glorification and the memory of the "great victory" underlies the possibility that the election was indeed "rigged" as he so often put it during the campaign, but not as he intends for his listeners to cognize. How it was done is a matter of absolute secrecy to which only a select few are privy, and this is known only to him (and them), which is what not only makes him appear as a cynical liar, but also what seems to contribute to his trivializing the workings of government, etc. This is, in fact, despite what various journalists, etc. attempt to lay bare as utter and complete incompetence, which is also known by him, somewhat akin to what government does, foster illusions; the government is huge therefore the illusion is huge; Trump is hugely successful, therefore as illusion builder, he has no peer. The consequences for truth are obvious: he and everyone else will have it his way, despite what is ostensibly desirable.
All very interesting, but all the analysis of one man, Donald Trump, misses the point for the most part. What about the 63 million people who voted for him and his Republican tribe? The best answer, I think, is that Trump is just a lying con man, who hitched his wagon to the propaganda of the Republican tribe. The presidency is just the latest thing that Trump wanted to obtain, especially since he was the subject of laughter and mockery at the 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner.
So now we're all victims of the right-wing propaganda apparatus and of Trump's nearly boundless need to win, acquire and dominate. Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Breitbart, Drudge and many, many others planted the seeds of rabid anti-liberalism. Trump, for the most part, just told the Republican base what they already believed. The fact that much of what they believe doesn't align well with reality isn't a problem for their tribe when anti-liberalism is so firmly embedded into their collective psyche.
So now we're all victims of the right-wing propaganda apparatus and of Trump's nearly boundless need to win, acquire and dominate. Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Breitbart, Drudge and many, many others planted the seeds of rabid anti-liberalism. Trump, for the most part, just told the Republican base what they already believed. The fact that much of what they believe doesn't align well with reality isn't a problem for their tribe when anti-liberalism is so firmly embedded into their collective psyche.
1
I see Trump more as a symptom than a cause. For decades, Republicans have been courting groups of voters for whom the concept of truth is purely a matter of personal bias. Those voters now constitute the real Republican base. Donald Trump is the first successful Republican whose thinking, or whatever, more or less matches that of his base, and the outcome is a threat to the survival of democracy. People who study voting behavior know that few Americans vote on issues--often because they cannot understand the issues--but make commitments to a party or particular leader and then distort reality to make that party or leader represent their interests. That most of the Republican base is happy with the recent tax bill--the third since 1980 that gives most of the benefits to big business and rich individuals--is more evidence that rationality has little to do with political behavior, at least for those people. I think we have to expect more of the same until Democrats wake up and begin to play the same game. What's going on right now is not a fair fight.
1
Great essay and testimony to the enduring necessity, value and practical importance of philosophical inquiry. The only alternative is the chaos and dangerous delusions of tribalism.
We know Trump is a liar. We're not certain what his lying persona really adds up to, but we cannot think that it is something good. We may insist that seeing is believing, but we know that we don't all see things with the same clarity, and none of us shares the visual capacity of an eagle. Therefore, we form our views of the world in different ways. Firstly, there is reality, as partially revealed by our senses and as elaborated by science. Then there's the working arrangement we have with reality, believing that we will not fall off the earth, and trusting that our molecules with just not evanesce if we bump into a tree. Reason and imagination. Logos and Mythos.
In the age of Trump, in part giving rise to Trump, more and more people retreat into the "reality" of superstition and reject scientific inquiry. Inquiry implies uncertainty, disturbing to the fearful. How odd that Evangelicals often insist on the literal truth of books that even early Israelites treated as parables and myths! As for Trump, didn't we know he's a self-made (marred) man? And that there isn't an ounce of natural philosophy is him? In the Western world, we are witnessing the retreat of more and more from the reality of uncertainty to grotesque imagined medieval certainties.
In the age of Trump, in part giving rise to Trump, more and more people retreat into the "reality" of superstition and reject scientific inquiry. Inquiry implies uncertainty, disturbing to the fearful. How odd that Evangelicals often insist on the literal truth of books that even early Israelites treated as parables and myths! As for Trump, didn't we know he's a self-made (marred) man? And that there isn't an ounce of natural philosophy is him? In the Western world, we are witnessing the retreat of more and more from the reality of uncertainty to grotesque imagined medieval certainties.
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You've touched on some interesting points here, many of which I agree with. What you fail to acknowledge, however, is that Trump and the extreme right are far from alone in their embrace of postmodernism. The far left is just as guilty. While these two warring factions battle it out, those of us who do acknowledge the existence of objective truth are left to fend for ourselves.
I'd be interested in seeing you explore this topic further. If we can agree that objective truth does exist, where does that leave us? Does the existence of objective truth / morality denote the existence of a truth / law giver (i.e. God)? I would argue that it does. In the words of Friedrich Nietzsche, "(If) nothing is true, everything is permitted."
I'd be interested in seeing you explore this topic further. If we can agree that objective truth does exist, where does that leave us? Does the existence of objective truth / morality denote the existence of a truth / law giver (i.e. God)? I would argue that it does. In the words of Friedrich Nietzsche, "(If) nothing is true, everything is permitted."
I feel that Mr. Trump is best understood as the living embodiment of a brand. Everything he says or does is essentially advertising for that brand, with any relationship to the truth completely coincidental.
I found the column very useful until the end. The quotes from Pinker and Symons make it seem as if all humans (or all political factions) are equally tribal. But it is Republicans only who have jettisoned the truth in such a violent and total fashion in pursuit of power.
"The self is more or less an invention from beginning to end." -Nicole Krauss
Lyotard defines postmodern as "an incredulity toward metanarratives." What then of the status of smaller scale and personal stories of the self and the other?
Our species "discovered doubt" as Dennett explains in this article. Pinker writes that our ability to be "endlessly creative" is what makes us "so smart."
Knowing if a story is invented or based on truth (there is a bear in that cave) is essential. All of us perform an automatic analysis anytime we hear a story whether we are aware of it or not: is this story true or invented?
Trump exploits this feature we have that is an essential part of the adaptive tool of storytelling. He exploits it to the point of malfunction. Suddenly the story of YOU is up for analysis. The story of you and the other in the hands of a nihilist is a story that could very well be determined as false. The story of you doesn't have to be believed at all. The real other can even be replaced by an invented other (How many people were at that inauguration? How many unregistered voters were there?). The real other can be completely discarded with.
Perhaps storytelling as an adaptive tool has a major defect when it comes to employment of deepest empathy. We need to love one another because of our stories and despite them. What will be humanity's next adaptive tool that encourages greater compassion--that recognizes and believes the story of the other?
Lyotard defines postmodern as "an incredulity toward metanarratives." What then of the status of smaller scale and personal stories of the self and the other?
Our species "discovered doubt" as Dennett explains in this article. Pinker writes that our ability to be "endlessly creative" is what makes us "so smart."
Knowing if a story is invented or based on truth (there is a bear in that cave) is essential. All of us perform an automatic analysis anytime we hear a story whether we are aware of it or not: is this story true or invented?
Trump exploits this feature we have that is an essential part of the adaptive tool of storytelling. He exploits it to the point of malfunction. Suddenly the story of YOU is up for analysis. The story of you and the other in the hands of a nihilist is a story that could very well be determined as false. The story of you doesn't have to be believed at all. The real other can even be replaced by an invented other (How many people were at that inauguration? How many unregistered voters were there?). The real other can be completely discarded with.
Perhaps storytelling as an adaptive tool has a major defect when it comes to employment of deepest empathy. We need to love one another because of our stories and despite them. What will be humanity's next adaptive tool that encourages greater compassion--that recognizes and believes the story of the other?
I have also thought about this question. And also about whether or not the public's distrust of the media is the result of academics questioning the sources of so-called "truth." But I've come to the conclusion, like most of the academics quoted in this article, that it's not about questioning meta-narratives. It's about not questioning at all. That's why tribalism keeps coming up: it discourages individuals from questioning the power, judgment, and ethics of others. It is a kind of "blind faith."
The fact that 35% of Americans support the President in this way--without questioning his words and actions--is most likely due to a number of factors. Economic inequality, ethnic anxiety, political frustration, lack of education, and a new media ecology--by which I mean not just Fox News and the like, but the rise of the internet and social media. People are more susceptible to propaganda when it comes in forms they don't recognize.
This is an explanation, not an excuse. As much as we might want it to, it does not absolve members of the tribe from moral responsibility. "Following orders" has never been a viable defense when the person following knows the orders are wrong. That's why it's worse when the President's supporters know his actions and behaviors are wrong, but maintain their allegiance anyway.
The fact that 35% of Americans support the President in this way--without questioning his words and actions--is most likely due to a number of factors. Economic inequality, ethnic anxiety, political frustration, lack of education, and a new media ecology--by which I mean not just Fox News and the like, but the rise of the internet and social media. People are more susceptible to propaganda when it comes in forms they don't recognize.
This is an explanation, not an excuse. As much as we might want it to, it does not absolve members of the tribe from moral responsibility. "Following orders" has never been a viable defense when the person following knows the orders are wrong. That's why it's worse when the President's supporters know his actions and behaviors are wrong, but maintain their allegiance anyway.
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Maybe Postmodernism is a combination of truth, fact and opinion.
I don't know. But it does provoke discussion, analysis, reams of writing (some comprehensible, some not.)
However, regarding Daniel Dennett's comment that human beings "are the species that discovered doubt" strikes me as contrary to my observations and the observations of some others regarding "doubt" as expressed by some non-human animals.
And where Donald J. Trump is concerned, he's one human being for whom doubt seems absent from the classroom.
I don't know. But it does provoke discussion, analysis, reams of writing (some comprehensible, some not.)
However, regarding Daniel Dennett's comment that human beings "are the species that discovered doubt" strikes me as contrary to my observations and the observations of some others regarding "doubt" as expressed by some non-human animals.
And where Donald J. Trump is concerned, he's one human being for whom doubt seems absent from the classroom.
The better word for the Trumpian state of affairs is nihilism, radical passive nihilism which Nietzsche defined as the highest values devaluing themselves.
Golden Calf worship is usually the rule, the norm for the vast majority of us: worship of appetitive gratifications, comfort and narcotizing, including narcotizing luxury and entertainment. Golden Calf worshippers are usually also Caesar worshippers: worship of power directly physical, military, economic. Caesar promises to protect and provide for more if we praise and obey.
Our most important cultural heroes however came down from the mountain or from the desert or from brooding in the middle of the street or some other place of withdrawal, came to ruin the dance and the party and the contended shopping, and instead tried to move us on, prod or pester or cajole us, toward some better place, higher state, much loftier kingdom, eternal realm, really real good true and beautiful, etc. and etc. …
But much of that is now known as so much fake news. So we prefer to stay on the couch as much as we can, in the easy chair, by the TV, and give our devotion to whoever promises best to maintain us in that happy consumer stupor and not trouble us with prattle about some vision thing or dream other than more cheeseburgers and diet coke. Our higher good is the hair do.
Golden Calf worship is usually the rule, the norm for the vast majority of us: worship of appetitive gratifications, comfort and narcotizing, including narcotizing luxury and entertainment. Golden Calf worshippers are usually also Caesar worshippers: worship of power directly physical, military, economic. Caesar promises to protect and provide for more if we praise and obey.
Our most important cultural heroes however came down from the mountain or from the desert or from brooding in the middle of the street or some other place of withdrawal, came to ruin the dance and the party and the contended shopping, and instead tried to move us on, prod or pester or cajole us, toward some better place, higher state, much loftier kingdom, eternal realm, really real good true and beautiful, etc. and etc. …
But much of that is now known as so much fake news. So we prefer to stay on the couch as much as we can, in the easy chair, by the TV, and give our devotion to whoever promises best to maintain us in that happy consumer stupor and not trouble us with prattle about some vision thing or dream other than more cheeseburgers and diet coke. Our higher good is the hair do.
Look the media has for much too long given Donald Trump a pass. Any middle school debater understands the difference between INVENTING facts -- lying -- and using facts to support different opinions.
Donald Trump INVENTS facts. He claimed he had a copy of President Obama's birth certificate. That isn't "postmodernism". That's a toddler simply lying. Trump said he had a copy when he knew he did not.
He claimed he NEVER MET Russians whom he has business ties with and whom photographic evidence shows he met.
He directed his son to write a memo about his meeting with Russians offering dirt on Hillary Clinton that was patently untrue.
And when Trump is caught out in his lies, he simply doubles down, proving that he wasn't "mistaken" but intentionally using untruths to deceive the American people.
And it's a sign of how far the Republican Party and the media has fallen that they accept any word from this pathological liar's lips as the truth.
Donald Trump INVENTS facts. He claimed he had a copy of President Obama's birth certificate. That isn't "postmodernism". That's a toddler simply lying. Trump said he had a copy when he knew he did not.
He claimed he NEVER MET Russians whom he has business ties with and whom photographic evidence shows he met.
He directed his son to write a memo about his meeting with Russians offering dirt on Hillary Clinton that was patently untrue.
And when Trump is caught out in his lies, he simply doubles down, proving that he wasn't "mistaken" but intentionally using untruths to deceive the American people.
And it's a sign of how far the Republican Party and the media has fallen that they accept any word from this pathological liar's lips as the truth.
The following article seems to be nothing else than philosophical masturbation: attempting to explain Trump's behavior under a discussion of postmodernism and/or the search of the true in his life. Why did the quoted philosophers in this article not had investigated Trump's development as a person and "businessman" and the influences under which he quantifies himself as a wealthy man? Trump is corrupt in every sense. Instead of using machine guns as mafia bosses, Trump uses lies, money and lawyers for making money in detriment of everybody else. There is no question that these philosophers did not pay attention on the abilities Trump has developed and used in the mass media: The Apprentice, program that facilitated, during several years, him to become a con artist, and that, with this abilities, he turned out to be, in a short period of time, a "successful" demagogue during his short political life in the US oligarchic society. René
A leader who misleads people is a contradiction in terms. It doesn't matter whether he does it maliciously, blithely, unconsciously or instinctively. It doesn't tell us anything about the truth at all, but it tells us a lot about him.
Trump is determined to leave the destruction of democratic procedure as his legacy. Instead of granting him the title of postmodernist, let’s say instead that Trump is a nihilist who seeks to trample, to trash, to blight, to break and to burn.
Trump may or may not have begun as a nihilist, and may not even know what that means, but in many ways he now mirrors Steve Bannon and Bannon's theory of the fourth turning and his vow of "Deconstruction of the administrative state."
Trump may or may not have begun as a nihilist, and may not even know what that means, but in many ways he now mirrors Steve Bannon and Bannon's theory of the fourth turning and his vow of "Deconstruction of the administrative state."
"simply lying". That's what resonates here about Trump (and his Republican henchmen). Mr. Edsall mentions Foucault. More on this, please. Foucault tells us the evolution of our prison system, from immediate dire public punishment by the elite--death and dismemberment--to prolonged incarceration, also by elites. What we have to look forward to is imprisonment through technology by elites. This is being done in China; they have a prison society, where any protest is considered a state crime. Elsewhere in this paper today, a German-China soccer match was halted (in Germany) because of pro-Tibet protest flags in the audience. In this country, as an extreme case, DACA recipients are now being tortured, put in a mental prison on a daily basis, because of actions by our Torturer-in-Chief based on overt racism by him and his followers.
Again, simply lying. Ignoring the truths of Human Rights, "We hold these Truths to be self-evident..." does not make them any less true. Mr. Edsall should also read John Rawls, and "the difference principle". Elites in this country have not just gamed the prison system, but also the economy (by a matter of degree, the pendulum having swung too far in one direction--many will disagree with this). The dictatorship of the proletariat was to be by the 5%--we saw how bad that was for everybody else, including militarism directed at outside enemies, a necessity to distract and control the other 95%. Do we now have a dictatorship of the 0.1%?
Again, simply lying. Ignoring the truths of Human Rights, "We hold these Truths to be self-evident..." does not make them any less true. Mr. Edsall should also read John Rawls, and "the difference principle". Elites in this country have not just gamed the prison system, but also the economy (by a matter of degree, the pendulum having swung too far in one direction--many will disagree with this). The dictatorship of the proletariat was to be by the 5%--we saw how bad that was for everybody else, including militarism directed at outside enemies, a necessity to distract and control the other 95%. Do we now have a dictatorship of the 0.1%?
Speaking of truth, haven't we been fed a bunch of lies about how good NAFTA is for people in this country? Last time I checked over 10 million good paying jobs had been replaced with low paying jobs since Clinton signed NAFTA way back in 1994. Why would a pro-labor party president sign something like NAFTA knowing how it would destroy thousands of towns and ten million jobs? It is a mystery. But every reporter in the entire country keeps trying to hammer home how really good for us NAFTA is. I won't even go into the WTO and the damage it has done. Gee, I wonder why people in the Midwest are so angry. Whatever could it be?
I see that many commenters find this essay over-analytical, even 'a waste of space.' I completely disagree and find this historical and philosophical context enlightening. That is, I wholeheartedly agree with this towards the end:
"These developments have been unfolding for decades, but the 2016 election was a turning point that appears to have the potential to corrupt the system beyond repair."
It's not just a case of some horribly rotten person gotten into the mix and achieving power - it's an inflection point in the history of this republic. And though it may already be too late to reverse this, to have any chance there absolutely must be a #BlueWave108
"These developments have been unfolding for decades, but the 2016 election was a turning point that appears to have the potential to corrupt the system beyond repair."
It's not just a case of some horribly rotten person gotten into the mix and achieving power - it's an inflection point in the history of this republic. And though it may already be too late to reverse this, to have any chance there absolutely must be a #BlueWave108
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"moral prescriptions apply only to one’s in-group." And, an us versus them stance has been built into us by evolution.
This is why great teachers, such as Jesus, have taught that we are all brothers & sisters. We no longer live in a world of small bands in which us v. them makes sense & basically works.
There is the danger of a thermonuclear war. There is the pressing need to deal with the emission of greenhouse gases.
We need to use our rationality to understand the absolute necessity of moving beyond us v. them. It's not impossible. The modern nation-state is a device for feeling bonded with millions of other humans. It transcends the original state of only feeling bonded with members of one's small community--people we knew personally.
Can we now rise above the nation state?
I don't think we should give in to pessimism. For many, many years those who were sexually attracted to people of the same sex were regarded as the most revolting others imaginable. Now we see a widely spreading realization that there is no reason, no rational reason to denigrate them.
The Enlightenment is an ongoing project. Earlier many folks expected it to be an undisturbed upward movement. Then the horrors of the 20th century convinced some it was a mistake & they sought a return to tribalism.
No! In today's world tribalism is death, death to our species. We must rise above it.
This is why great teachers, such as Jesus, have taught that we are all brothers & sisters. We no longer live in a world of small bands in which us v. them makes sense & basically works.
There is the danger of a thermonuclear war. There is the pressing need to deal with the emission of greenhouse gases.
We need to use our rationality to understand the absolute necessity of moving beyond us v. them. It's not impossible. The modern nation-state is a device for feeling bonded with millions of other humans. It transcends the original state of only feeling bonded with members of one's small community--people we knew personally.
Can we now rise above the nation state?
I don't think we should give in to pessimism. For many, many years those who were sexually attracted to people of the same sex were regarded as the most revolting others imaginable. Now we see a widely spreading realization that there is no reason, no rational reason to denigrate them.
The Enlightenment is an ongoing project. Earlier many folks expected it to be an undisturbed upward movement. Then the horrors of the 20th century convinced some it was a mistake & they sought a return to tribalism.
No! In today's world tribalism is death, death to our species. We must rise above it.
OK. What about the former POTUS whose slogan was "yes we can?" What about "post-racial America," or "neither red nor blue states, but the United States?" Of course, all the pointy heads were on board with this rhetorical nonsense because they liked the speaker.
"Objective truth" is what stands empirical verification, for which we can thank science. The rest is bafflegab, a string of empirically empty, multi-syllabic verbiage that sounds good and provides university employment for those who earn their living writing nonsense. If anyone believed in the validity of the "Enlightenment" after the "Romantic Rebellion," two world wars had set them straight by the middle of the 20th Century, as emotionalism, nationalism and imperialism based on race.
[By the way, how can one "help" people without simultaneously holding "power" over them? If one is in need of, or desires, help, one has given power to the helper.]
"Objective truth" is what stands empirical verification, for which we can thank science. The rest is bafflegab, a string of empirically empty, multi-syllabic verbiage that sounds good and provides university employment for those who earn their living writing nonsense. If anyone believed in the validity of the "Enlightenment" after the "Romantic Rebellion," two world wars had set them straight by the middle of the 20th Century, as emotionalism, nationalism and imperialism based on race.
[By the way, how can one "help" people without simultaneously holding "power" over them? If one is in need of, or desires, help, one has given power to the helper.]
Let's not credit Trump with being anything other than a habitual liar. He gets away with what he says and we have to 'accept' it because of the position he holds, and the media apparatus that goes with it.
When he was a mere 'businessman' he did the same and relied on lawyers, threats of legal action, and wads of money to silence people or buy them off.
The fact that he has large numbers of Republican's who are prepared to disregard or overlook the morals and ethics of what he says and does also helps his cause. They legitimize him, and in many ways their collusion is as offensive as what he does - maybe worse because he makes to attempt to be anything other than the odious person he is, while they claim to be something else.
When he was a mere 'businessman' he did the same and relied on lawyers, threats of legal action, and wads of money to silence people or buy them off.
The fact that he has large numbers of Republican's who are prepared to disregard or overlook the morals and ethics of what he says and does also helps his cause. They legitimize him, and in many ways their collusion is as offensive as what he does - maybe worse because he makes to attempt to be anything other than the odious person he is, while they claim to be something else.
Very well written, with interesting views, however there is a much simpler answer. Yes he is just a simple liar. In fact he will be known as the worlds most accomplished con man in human history. Nothing more complicated than that. I'll be surprised if the term Ponzi scheme, isn't replaced with something like a Trumpish, or Trump act.
Ron Suskind claims that a senior Bush, Jr. aide, many think it was Karl Rove, told him that journalists were living in a “reality-based community” whereas given that the United States is an Empire “when we act, we create our new reality.” This is either a trivial observation or a dangerously irresponsible idea. In fact, every time any one of us acts, we alter the reality in which we act. But a responsible person will act on the basis of present reality and the possibilities for the future that it offers us. Reality eventually strikes back in the form of dead American soldiers, billions of wasted dollars, and ISIS. Trump does not lie. That would require that he knows what the truth is. He really thinks the truth is what he makes it, and if people go along with his claims, then it is truth.The extreme right and the extreme left actually share a common outlook on “truth.’
Ronald Reagan alerted the nation to the decline in educational standards saying it was a threat to the nation.
20 years later a generation that has no understanding of history, government and philosophy, and utterly no comprehension of critical thinking or scientific method,elects Mr Trump.
This concludes the demonstration.
20 years later a generation that has no understanding of history, government and philosophy, and utterly no comprehension of critical thinking or scientific method,elects Mr Trump.
This concludes the demonstration.
I thought that it was common knowledge that he is a commercial real estate salesman and has been his entire adult life. Getting elected president does not turn a person into a new being. It only changes their residence.
What an utterly brilliant column. Thank you, Mr. Edsall. Someone should trap Trump in a room and not let him have a cheeseburger or a peek at Fox News until he's been forced to read and discuss every single word of this.
As noted, our advertising-based promotional culture, which has made of "brand" some kind of intellectual achievement, the whole money-for-campaigns-to-buy-media thing to sell images and slogans as surrogates for candidates, certainly prepared the ground for the Monster.
But I would like to point out that Newt Gingrich, Frank Luntz, and the corporate right wing have made both a business and a religion of this shameless sham discourse, and have been admired for it. The way GOP Congressmen actually celebrated the successful fraud of the new tax program, lying every step of the way, while MSM reporters lay at their feet with timid demurrers whispered long after the lights are turned off - all these have formed Trump Times.
Liberal education used to prod students to ask "What is the Question?" Business schools, an increasingly huge component of all higher education, drills them to seek The Answer, which will be handed over wrapped in shiny paper. And just about all education is geared toward preparing obedient employees.
So far some bright beacons of hope still shine, but they are not being bankrolled enough.
But I would like to point out that Newt Gingrich, Frank Luntz, and the corporate right wing have made both a business and a religion of this shameless sham discourse, and have been admired for it. The way GOP Congressmen actually celebrated the successful fraud of the new tax program, lying every step of the way, while MSM reporters lay at their feet with timid demurrers whispered long after the lights are turned off - all these have formed Trump Times.
Liberal education used to prod students to ask "What is the Question?" Business schools, an increasingly huge component of all higher education, drills them to seek The Answer, which will be handed over wrapped in shiny paper. And just about all education is geared toward preparing obedient employees.
So far some bright beacons of hope still shine, but they are not being bankrolled enough.
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I tend to go with "con man" when describing DT because, like Mark Twain said, "Eschew obfuscation." It's too bad David Cay Johnston's book, "The Making of Donald Trump" has been eclipsed by Wolf's "Fire and Fury". The former is an insightful, well-researched tome while the latter is a collection of pure, unadulterated drivel designed to capitalize on the scandal that supplanted a reasonable public narrative.
Nobody wants the truth simply because truth brings responsibilities. People prefer the lie and anyone who has worked in propaganda understands the first rule of the profession; The bigger the lie, the more likely people will believe it. As any good con artist knows, a lie will circle the world three times while the truth is still putting its pants on.
Nobody wants the truth simply because truth brings responsibilities. People prefer the lie and anyone who has worked in propaganda understands the first rule of the profession; The bigger the lie, the more likely people will believe it. As any good con artist knows, a lie will circle the world three times while the truth is still putting its pants on.
Is Trumpism really worth all this intellectual hand-wringing? I gave up half-way through the piece. Trump may be a "post-modernist," in political science new-speak, but let's not try to put a veneer of rationalism on him. He's a chaotic disrupter, and he would care about the label only if it fed his incredibly fragile sense of self-worth.
" An October 2017 Politico/Morning Consult poll found that a plurality of voters, 46 percent, believe the media fabricate stories about Trump compared to 37 percent who say the media report accurately."
In the true postmodernist/post truth spirit, you chose to report the poll result in a tone that suggests it represents an objective truth about voter opinion. Disregarding advice given by your own newspaper on September 28, 2016 ("Why You Shouldn’t Trust ‘Polls’ Conducted Online"), you did not offer any cautions about interpreting the results; namely that the Politico/Morning Consult poll was an on-line poll where the respondents were not a random sample, but a more selective group who found the poll on the internet and chose to take it. A "plurality of voters"? Hardly. A fabricated conclusion? Perhaps.
In the true postmodernist/post truth spirit, you chose to report the poll result in a tone that suggests it represents an objective truth about voter opinion. Disregarding advice given by your own newspaper on September 28, 2016 ("Why You Shouldn’t Trust ‘Polls’ Conducted Online"), you did not offer any cautions about interpreting the results; namely that the Politico/Morning Consult poll was an on-line poll where the respondents were not a random sample, but a more selective group who found the poll on the internet and chose to take it. A "plurality of voters"? Hardly. A fabricated conclusion? Perhaps.
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Where does one get to be "post-modern" as defined/explored succinctly here? Not in court, If any attorney uses the post-modern defense against charges perjury, I'll look forward to your next piece.
Perhaps there is no objective truth. That doesn't mean there is no objective falsehood.
If his lips are moving he is lying. The lies he tells are exactly what his base wants to hear. When his lies cannot be materialized he and his followers blame Democrats or Liberals or whomever. It's a very simple methodology used frequently by certain kinds of "leaders" as they seek control of a society and this is what makes them so dangerous. The public acquires a serious case of cognitive dissonance and they don't know what or who to believe other than their "leader". Thus the perpetrator gains ever more control with each iteration and he constructs a new reality.
Trump isn't difficult to understand. The problem is that the conclusion is so horrifying that it's difficult to accept.
His victory in the election doesn't reflect new trends in the American psyche, except for the way his character on a TV program was accepted as real. The rest of it was the usual brew of racism, misogyny and identity politics whipped to a fine froth by right wing media.
His victory in the election doesn't reflect new trends in the American psyche, except for the way his character on a TV program was accepted as real. The rest of it was the usual brew of racism, misogyny and identity politics whipped to a fine froth by right wing media.
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Some seven years ago Trump embraced the doctrine of birtherism, the conviction that Barack Obama´s presidency was illegitimate because he was born in Kenya. He did so hoping that it would be a wedge that seciured him a place in a national shouting match, and he was right. At the time, many Americans wondered how he knew that Obama was not an American and his reply to them was forthcoming. He told us that he had sent investigators to Honolulu, "and you wouldn´t believe what they found." He got that right, too. We wouldn´t believe what they found because it was never disclosed, and it was never disclosed because there were no investigators. It was all a nativist fog and it worked. During the campaign for the presidency he closed down the "investigation", at least momentarily, put birtherism behind him and stated that he was satisfied that Obama was indeed an American. But the question didn´t go away--how did he know? He didn´t. He simply walked back the fog so that fresh foggery could take its place.
Edsall got it right, Trump is a nihilist. Nothing unusual here. So was George W. Bush and so were the people surrounding him, but with a big difference. Bush and his nihilistic minions had their heads filled with what they regarded as values. In his unrelieved narcissism, Trump values nothing but himself.
Edsall got it right, Trump is a nihilist. Nothing unusual here. So was George W. Bush and so were the people surrounding him, but with a big difference. Bush and his nihilistic minions had their heads filled with what they regarded as values. In his unrelieved narcissism, Trump values nothing but himself.
There are a lot of interesting thoughts here, but I think we're missing the basic, less academic point: Trump is a snake-oil/used-car salesman. The snake-oil salesman doesn't concern himself with facts or reality: his job is to sell, to persuade. Everything is rhetoric--untethered to reality. The snake-oil salesman says whatever is necessary to sell the worthless product. That has been Trump's entire career. See, e.g., Trump University. The snake-oil salesman has no core beliefs, no ethics. He has one purpose: to sell. That's what Trump is trying to do every day: sell himself, snake-oil made flesh.
If the Press can shape its message, no reason why the President shouldn’t be able to as well.
A synthesis of tribalism and postmodernism would seem a
more natural perspective here. The core of trump's supporters
identify their contempt with the elite's way of telling
them how to think about all sorts of issues as a critical
component of the blood oath of loyalty they've taken. So they're
doing something post modernist in that they've decided that
all things elitist in origin are directed at their marginalization
or at their expense.
This reflex against "authorized" forms of thinking (what in other contexts
is pejoratively called Political Correctness) has now internalized and
become a basic feature of tribal identity and faith, something which preceded
trump more than likely. This mental posturing against the establishment has been thoroughly and shrewdly
exploited by trump whose language, postures, antics,
tweets, etc. etc. have all made of him the leader, in
both a political and cultural sense, to their world view.
These exploited, marginalized, desperate ones have found in this
consummate con man someone they firmly and utterly believe holds their values as his own. These values are in opposition to the establishment's
way of thinking about the world. They are post modern in that sense.
They are not, however, because their own way of thinking,
such as it is, is bound up much more in the emotions of
resentment and racial animosity, nothing as lofty as a critique
of what objective truth might or might not consist.
more natural perspective here. The core of trump's supporters
identify their contempt with the elite's way of telling
them how to think about all sorts of issues as a critical
component of the blood oath of loyalty they've taken. So they're
doing something post modernist in that they've decided that
all things elitist in origin are directed at their marginalization
or at their expense.
This reflex against "authorized" forms of thinking (what in other contexts
is pejoratively called Political Correctness) has now internalized and
become a basic feature of tribal identity and faith, something which preceded
trump more than likely. This mental posturing against the establishment has been thoroughly and shrewdly
exploited by trump whose language, postures, antics,
tweets, etc. etc. have all made of him the leader, in
both a political and cultural sense, to their world view.
These exploited, marginalized, desperate ones have found in this
consummate con man someone they firmly and utterly believe holds their values as his own. These values are in opposition to the establishment's
way of thinking about the world. They are post modern in that sense.
They are not, however, because their own way of thinking,
such as it is, is bound up much more in the emotions of
resentment and racial animosity, nothing as lofty as a critique
of what objective truth might or might not consist.
1
The greatest tragedy of all is that our congress supports this lier and simply endorses his lack of honest integrity. This will ultimately affect our youth in particular and our entire culture, as enumerated, is being infected. Democracy itself is being denigrated by this so called president.
I watched Face to Face today on Aljazeera it is a wonderful study of Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/face-to-face/2017/07/steve-jobs-bill...
Steve Jobs was a postmodernist.
Donald Trump is not a postmodernist.
Postmodernism requires an aesthetic.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/face-to-face/2017/07/steve-jobs-bill...
Steve Jobs was a postmodernist.
Donald Trump is not a postmodernist.
Postmodernism requires an aesthetic.
1
Let's cut to Ocum's Razor. Trump is a pathological Liar plain and simple and beyond other immoral acts, such as tearing down out country.
Every civilization has a moral code and every person has a moral code within them. People innately know right from wrong although that would vary some what due to cultural differences.
And what is Truth? You can't bottle it or even label it, but i do think most people from our cave man days to the present know it is wrong to deceive or harm another person for our own personal gain. And we certainly shouldn't kill them. Even during very ancient times to kill another person would do harm to the tribe. They needed all the people they had to survive.
I suppose the following the timeless Golden Rule would more than suffice. A rule any child or any president would understand .
Every civilization has a moral code and every person has a moral code within them. People innately know right from wrong although that would vary some what due to cultural differences.
And what is Truth? You can't bottle it or even label it, but i do think most people from our cave man days to the present know it is wrong to deceive or harm another person for our own personal gain. And we certainly shouldn't kill them. Even during very ancient times to kill another person would do harm to the tribe. They needed all the people they had to survive.
I suppose the following the timeless Golden Rule would more than suffice. A rule any child or any president would understand .
Donald Trump is a man of faith. No, not faith in god(s) or anything greater than himself. Donald Trump has faith that by believing in what he wants to be true and rejecting everything and everybody suggesting otherwise, he can always be right and have the world as he wishes it to be.
Some say he is a liar, but in his own mind, I suspect he sees himself as the supreme conjuror of the world according to Trump. Many have said he is delusional and narcissistic, and they may not be wrong. Yet, Trump remains confident that if he sticks to his faith in his own faith, he will eventually be proven to be bearer of The Truth According to Trump. And when that does not work out, Trump does his best to ignore the evidence and focus attention -- his and everyone else's -- on some new and sensational declaration of what is so in the world.
It seems to be working for him. For, no matter how many astute readers of The Times call him out for his thousands of "lies," Trump is always able to turn up millions of people who buy into his fragments of memory and forgetting and create for themselves a compatible construct of history and modern society that affirms much of what Trump says and ignores the abundant contradictions at hand, some of which spill from Trump's own quips and tweets.
These qualities may or may not qualify Trump as an element of postmodernism brought to life, but he certainly deserves consideration as a retrograde revolutionary or senior delinquent. That much I know is true.
Some say he is a liar, but in his own mind, I suspect he sees himself as the supreme conjuror of the world according to Trump. Many have said he is delusional and narcissistic, and they may not be wrong. Yet, Trump remains confident that if he sticks to his faith in his own faith, he will eventually be proven to be bearer of The Truth According to Trump. And when that does not work out, Trump does his best to ignore the evidence and focus attention -- his and everyone else's -- on some new and sensational declaration of what is so in the world.
It seems to be working for him. For, no matter how many astute readers of The Times call him out for his thousands of "lies," Trump is always able to turn up millions of people who buy into his fragments of memory and forgetting and create for themselves a compatible construct of history and modern society that affirms much of what Trump says and ignores the abundant contradictions at hand, some of which spill from Trump's own quips and tweets.
These qualities may or may not qualify Trump as an element of postmodernism brought to life, but he certainly deserves consideration as a retrograde revolutionary or senior delinquent. That much I know is true.
As an alumni of Rutgers Grad Program in Philosophy Im not sure which is worse, so-called postmodernism or straight out lying. Maybe it is the former for it is so meaningless that it is not even false. Actually I think that Trump is both.
“How should we explain the fact that President Trump got away with making 2,140 false or misleading claims during his initial year in office?”
Look, it’s right there in his book, Art of the Deal”. Create chaos, control the media, then renegotiate the deal.
His Dotardness is not stupid. Like autocrats before him he has an evil genius. He identifies weakness and attacks it with both barrels.
The current weakness may be truth itself.
That seems to be whats now under attack.
Calling the press the enemy of the people should be an impeachable if not an illegal offense.
Look, it’s right there in his book, Art of the Deal”. Create chaos, control the media, then renegotiate the deal.
His Dotardness is not stupid. Like autocrats before him he has an evil genius. He identifies weakness and attacks it with both barrels.
The current weakness may be truth itself.
That seems to be whats now under attack.
Calling the press the enemy of the people should be an impeachable if not an illegal offense.
1
These days I am tending to agree with Stephen Hawking's assertion that the human race has about 100 years left on Earth. I have thought for years that unless the human race is able to evolve beyond its greed, violence, and tendency to overpopulate itself, all other questions are moot. Add tribalism to that list. We are stuck.
Trump is the epitome everything described by George Orwell in 1984:
Orwell's invented language, Newspeak, satirises hypocrisy and evasion by the state: the Ministry of Love (Miniluv) oversees torture and brainwashing, the Ministry of Plenty (Miniplenty) oversees shortage and rationing, the Ministry of Peace (Minipax) oversees war and atrocity and the Ministry of Truth (Minitrue) oversees propaganda and historical revisionism.
This is what Trump is aiming for in his Cabinet appointments and in his leadership style.
Does Trump believe what he is saying? He probably does at the time, because it 'feels right' to him. He is creating his own reality.
I don't want to be part of that reality, but I don't get to choose right now.
Orwell's invented language, Newspeak, satirises hypocrisy and evasion by the state: the Ministry of Love (Miniluv) oversees torture and brainwashing, the Ministry of Plenty (Miniplenty) oversees shortage and rationing, the Ministry of Peace (Minipax) oversees war and atrocity and the Ministry of Truth (Minitrue) oversees propaganda and historical revisionism.
This is what Trump is aiming for in his Cabinet appointments and in his leadership style.
Does Trump believe what he is saying? He probably does at the time, because it 'feels right' to him. He is creating his own reality.
I don't want to be part of that reality, but I don't get to choose right now.
1
Fascinating - a column made up of "fragmented text bites" far outshines the more typically linear articles along this vein...
But - experts seem to be tripping all over their own word..."Postmodern" is as squishy a term in describing a type of philosophy as is "Dreamer" in describing a type of aspiring citizen...
A while back, I'd begun to think of Trump as our first "Postnarrative" president...
Again using Heer's phrasing - what Trump has in his cross-hairs is the tyrannical duality of linear thinking...That is:
> Linear thinking reveres narrative
> Reverence for narrative begets linear thinking
We've grown too fond and full of our own narrative and linear thinking - which can be too easily turned into the sharpest of rapier or bluntest of bludgeon, and used for our purpose and advantage, with receding regard for the truth...
But perhaps the most insidious weaponization of narrative is as the most asphyxiating of garrote...
Truth and reality are simplified into processes and outcomes, based on assertions and abstractions that we are - sometimes - stabbed, bludgeoned, or strangled into accepting as fact...
We've known for some time that Russia and North Korea are bad...
But, till very recently, we knew the FBI and USOC were - in that same assertive and blanketing sense - good...
Perhaps some rumblings - but no matter...
Good - or bad - until proven otherwise...
But - experts seem to be tripping all over their own word..."Postmodern" is as squishy a term in describing a type of philosophy as is "Dreamer" in describing a type of aspiring citizen...
A while back, I'd begun to think of Trump as our first "Postnarrative" president...
Again using Heer's phrasing - what Trump has in his cross-hairs is the tyrannical duality of linear thinking...That is:
> Linear thinking reveres narrative
> Reverence for narrative begets linear thinking
We've grown too fond and full of our own narrative and linear thinking - which can be too easily turned into the sharpest of rapier or bluntest of bludgeon, and used for our purpose and advantage, with receding regard for the truth...
But perhaps the most insidious weaponization of narrative is as the most asphyxiating of garrote...
Truth and reality are simplified into processes and outcomes, based on assertions and abstractions that we are - sometimes - stabbed, bludgeoned, or strangled into accepting as fact...
We've known for some time that Russia and North Korea are bad...
But, till very recently, we knew the FBI and USOC were - in that same assertive and blanketing sense - good...
Perhaps some rumblings - but no matter...
Good - or bad - until proven otherwise...
By this measure, your average leisure suited used car salesman is also 'an avatar of postmodernism.'. That's the mold is which Trump and Trumpism has been cast.
You want the ultimate protection of our $1000 undercoating with that lovely automobile you just bought on the installment plan at 18% interest, am I right?
You want the ultimate protection of our $1000 undercoating with that lovely automobile you just bought on the installment plan at 18% interest, am I right?
1
To be a "post-modernist" Trump would have to understand the term and make subtle distinctions. No, he's simply a liar, and a rather clumsy one, at that.
"Instead of granting him the title of postmodernist, let’s say instead that Trump is a nihilist who seeks to trample, to trash, to blight, to break and to burn."
this must not happen; the world is scary enough, if "good" loses ... there's got to be somebody out there who can make the argument clearly that goodness is good for its sake and for the same of all individuals, regardless of whether karma is immediate to takes its time
this must not happen; the world is scary enough, if "good" loses ... there's got to be somebody out there who can make the argument clearly that goodness is good for its sake and for the same of all individuals, regardless of whether karma is immediate to takes its time
The last paragraph is correct.
I would however add that those who describe themselves as post-modernists are themselves often prolific liars. It doesn't have to be so, but it usually is.
I would however add that those who describe themselves as post-modernists are themselves often prolific liars. It doesn't have to be so, but it usually is.
1
This outstanding piece reminds me of why I value the NY Times so much. So much valuable, responsible reporting and research went into this article. It is like a short college course on postmodernism. How many newspapers in the world would put this much effort into one article?
Can someone send this article to Muller's team of investigators, please.
This article sums up what kind of long-term damage we are talking about, and what the Russians are really trying to accomplish here: the destruction of democratic procedure.
Woke
This article sums up what kind of long-term damage we are talking about, and what the Russians are really trying to accomplish here: the destruction of democratic procedure.
Woke
"How should we explain the fact that President Trump got away with making 2,140 false or misleading claims during his initial year in office?"
He is a liar, a cheat, and a fraud and has never had an honest job in his life.
I did not need a degree in philosophy to understand this. I do have a doctorate but it is in engineering and I learned to think in logical terms.
He is a liar, a cheat, and a fraud and has never had an honest job in his life.
I did not need a degree in philosophy to understand this. I do have a doctorate but it is in engineering and I learned to think in logical terms.
1
I agree that Trump is a nihilist and a destroyer and most definitely not a thinking man. This leads me to believe that his specific coalition of wealthy donors are doing all the strategical thinking and using Trump for their purposes. The members have tribalism in common, as defined in this article, and have gone from postmodernism to post truth, again as defined in this article.
They saw the perfect clay to mold a president of their making in Trump, as he is amoral, narcissistic, which makes him easy to control most of the time aka just keep on stroking his ego, authoritative which stems from his narcissism, 'I am the king of the jungle', and he is tearing down all institutions of American democracy which is exactly what they want.
Since they have all the wealth they want all the say in our government, and the power to shape America into what amounts to a plutocracy run by kleptocrats. In answer to your article's question, I say Trump is a liar which suits them just fine. If he told the truth they would be out of business.
They saw the perfect clay to mold a president of their making in Trump, as he is amoral, narcissistic, which makes him easy to control most of the time aka just keep on stroking his ego, authoritative which stems from his narcissism, 'I am the king of the jungle', and he is tearing down all institutions of American democracy which is exactly what they want.
Since they have all the wealth they want all the say in our government, and the power to shape America into what amounts to a plutocracy run by kleptocrats. In answer to your article's question, I say Trump is a liar which suits them just fine. If he told the truth they would be out of business.
This is not the first time I have seen, in these pages, the statistic of 52% of respondants believing media makes stuff up about the president. The visceral response is to reassess your regular source(s). Does the NYT regularly misrepresent the president? I don't believe so. Do they get things wrong? Of course. Does a retraction take care of this? Not very often. The damage is often irreparable. The Times is accused of "Fake News" or the falshood (mistake) is repeated so often that fact checking becomes so fraught with Google rabbit holes that it seems not to be worth the effort.
My assessment is that 52% is horribly low, given what most of us know about the existing media world, be it your Facebook newsfeed, Fox or Breitbart, or some favorite site that has no innate reason to stick with the truth. It is not a partisan issue, particularly. I have plenty of friends who do not have the nose to sniff out things that are too good to be true, and pass on that info without any scrutiny. Sometimes its just a funny meme, that we can all laugh at. Sometimes it is more serious than that, and couched under some masthead that disguises itself with some important words.
We don't live in a post-Truth world, collectively. Truth is still important to the majority of us. Even that 52% tells us as much. What we do live in is a world of wishful thinking, where the truth might be buried so deeply that we can't be bothered to dig it out.
My assessment is that 52% is horribly low, given what most of us know about the existing media world, be it your Facebook newsfeed, Fox or Breitbart, or some favorite site that has no innate reason to stick with the truth. It is not a partisan issue, particularly. I have plenty of friends who do not have the nose to sniff out things that are too good to be true, and pass on that info without any scrutiny. Sometimes its just a funny meme, that we can all laugh at. Sometimes it is more serious than that, and couched under some masthead that disguises itself with some important words.
We don't live in a post-Truth world, collectively. Truth is still important to the majority of us. Even that 52% tells us as much. What we do live in is a world of wishful thinking, where the truth might be buried so deeply that we can't be bothered to dig it out.
I'll go with the four letter one word answer
1
I don't understand why the focus continues to be on Trump. He is a liar and a con artist. That is not up for debate. It is the people who continue to support him that should be held to scrutiny. And I think the tribalism mentioned gets to the heart of the situation we find ourselves in. The real pressing question is not at all academic: how do we unwind this? How do we restore a basic set of agreed upon standards? Is that even achievable at this point?
"Nihilist" isn't right either, as this implies a structured objective. 45's capacity for destruction is a reflection of his disordered sense of self, which craves and gorges with the cyclical inescapability of a Wendigo. He's no more "nihilist" than Erysichthon. What he is, is cursed. And now, so are we.
"only those who are cynical about truth itself can take him seriously. His style is not “postmodern” at all, but is rather cynical." I think this guy best characterizes Trump supporters. Their addiction to victimization causes a misery that can only be alleviated by rationalizing inconvenient truths as untruths. Old white male psychologically insecure Trump supporters seem to especially fit within this analysis.
1
Trump is definitely a Postmodernist; and he meets up epistemically with his regressive Leftist friends (the Postmodernists) right where the ends of the horseshoe come together. It might be hard for the far Left to swallow, but Donald Trump has an awful lot in common with them when it comes to ascertaining the truth.
We must look toward the Republican Party and its base and away from Trump. He's merely a narcisstic sociopath, who by his very nature, lies to charm his base and disarm his foes. He is what the corrupt body politic has excreted following decades of Republican descent into madness in their pursuit of power. Remember what Karl Rove said in 2004: guys like me (Ron Suskind) were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he (Rove) defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." Suskind, Ron (2004-10-17). Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush. The New York Times Magazine. Is the nature of truth relevant in the face of absolute power?
In 2002, one of G.W Bush aides told Ron Suskind that the administration was " …an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
Au contraire: for some of us postmodernism does not mean the complete absence of truth. Rather, consider reality as something akin to a Cubist or Abstract Expressionist painting. When you're in front of say a Jackson Pollock thing: something is there, really there. Many statements, interpretations are possible, about purpose, patterns, meanings, etc. and etc.. But not all statements or interpretations are equally valid or invalid, or "it's all relative" —ask relative to what? The thing is there; it is real, and some statements about it are better than others by various criteria, and not all criteria are equally valid ... There is truth. But it may not, as Nietzsche mentioned, hang on the arm of an absolute. Our inadequacy about truth may most of all be about inadequacy or inappropriateness of language, not about whatever is out there.
1
In the May 1997 Playboy feature: "The Art of the Donald: The Trumpster Stages the Comeback", Mark Bowden highlighted Mr. Trump's comeback: either the banks to whom Mr. Trump at that time owed millions of dollars buoyed him up by overriding some of his debt, or they would go under with him.Likewise, the Republican law makers are so invested in him, that they must keep him afloat at all cost or risk doing nothing for the rest of his term (see health reform). What is puzzling is that the Democrats seem to be doing his bidding as well. As Mr. Trumps loves to quip: "We'll see..."
2
"Our species is profoundly coalitional, and in most times and places moral prescriptions apply only to one’s in-group, not to humanity in general. I don’t see any evidence that we evolved innate, universal moral rules about how to treat all humans."
Hmm, it seems to me that there might be some belief system that says all men are brothers, that we should love our neighbors as ourselves, whether they be of our tribe or not (say, Samaritans). If only Trump and a vast majority of his supporters would identify themselves as staunch adherents of such a belief system.
Hmm, it seems to me that there might be some belief system that says all men are brothers, that we should love our neighbors as ourselves, whether they be of our tribe or not (say, Samaritans). If only Trump and a vast majority of his supporters would identify themselves as staunch adherents of such a belief system.
During the Obama Administration, progressives tried to claim the debate on many social matters was over, that their positions represented the truth and that anyone who disagreed was on the wrong side of history. This attitude has resulted in a lot of hostility from those who disagreed and felt their voices were taken away. Resentment and backlash of the progressive monopoly on the truth, PC speech and behavior requirements, etc. helped elect President Trump. Overall, many of these sort of truths are relative and not fact based, so the progressives squashing civil public discourse on various topics was a great tragedy. Progressives are now dealing with the consequences.
2
Wow. So Mike would be happy to see his daughters/wife making less pay for equal work, harassed on the job or anywhere at all, and any gender fluid or not quite white relatives treated as second class citizens. Guessing the upside for him is that every kid in Kansas or Oklahoma can keep a gun and kill a few classmates at whim? Civil Rights as an American value isn't up for grabs. Rights for some and not others isn't Constitutional. Climate change facts are real. Why choose to be ignorant?
Wow. This is exactly what I'm talking about. How can civility return to conversation if you are hostile towards anyone who doesn't agree with your world views?
All your positions are debatable. If someone leaves work at 5:00pm to pick up their kids everyday but someone else stays and works until 8:00pm to stand out and make a difference, the second person is going to get better raises and promotions regardless of gender. How much time we allocate to our work vs. family is a choice. Neglect your family and work more and you can make more money. It's what a lot of people do. Why blame it on gender?
How are gun rights black and white? It's in the constitution you can have them? Of course there's two sides that debate.
Why do you suggest I'm ignorant? I'm educated, read lots of news from both left and right every day and I'm successful in the workplace. I think I have it pretty together. I just don't agree with you. You should be okay with that.
All your positions are debatable. If someone leaves work at 5:00pm to pick up their kids everyday but someone else stays and works until 8:00pm to stand out and make a difference, the second person is going to get better raises and promotions regardless of gender. How much time we allocate to our work vs. family is a choice. Neglect your family and work more and you can make more money. It's what a lot of people do. Why blame it on gender?
How are gun rights black and white? It's in the constitution you can have them? Of course there's two sides that debate.
Why do you suggest I'm ignorant? I'm educated, read lots of news from both left and right every day and I'm successful in the workplace. I think I have it pretty together. I just don't agree with you. You should be okay with that.
Relativism, except in the General Theory of Relativity, which is an example of how the passage of time can vary depending on the speed of the observer, is not acceptable in scientific inquiry. Truth is established by proposing theories or hypotheses, which are then tested through experimentation to determine if they are true. The results of valid and repeatable experiments are what we call evidence.
Interpretations of evidence depend on the interpreter's point of view. Examples are the Big Bang and quantum theory, which both can lead humans to various interpretations of the big picture and whether it includes the existence of a god ... or not. The evidence that is interpreted, however, is just that: evidence, and it is not generally in question unless radically new proven understandings of a field of science turn some things upside down.
Morality has more room for relativism, but generally not much if you adopt the point of view that there are fundamental ways of behaving towards other living things that are right or wrong, good or evil along some spectrum. Moral relativism can be justified if circumstances change in some terrible way and require extreme deviation from accepted norms. Morality cannot be tested in the same way as science, so it is based on our own sense of what is right and good. The argument over abortion is really about the issues of timing and the value of the mother's life versus that of the unborn.
Facts, however, are things that are provable.
Interpretations of evidence depend on the interpreter's point of view. Examples are the Big Bang and quantum theory, which both can lead humans to various interpretations of the big picture and whether it includes the existence of a god ... or not. The evidence that is interpreted, however, is just that: evidence, and it is not generally in question unless radically new proven understandings of a field of science turn some things upside down.
Morality has more room for relativism, but generally not much if you adopt the point of view that there are fundamental ways of behaving towards other living things that are right or wrong, good or evil along some spectrum. Moral relativism can be justified if circumstances change in some terrible way and require extreme deviation from accepted norms. Morality cannot be tested in the same way as science, so it is based on our own sense of what is right and good. The argument over abortion is really about the issues of timing and the value of the mother's life versus that of the unborn.
Facts, however, are things that are provable.
1
Thank you for this fascinating discussion. I value the clear explanation of post-modernism and tribalism. I would note that tribalism, especially the attribute of being loyal to the leader in spite of moral failings, is not a new phenomenon. We see evidence of it in religious groups throughout their history. The connection of tribalism to politics, as seen in what is now called "identity politics" is not new either. Historians identified the trend in the late 19th century. The social media, where we all get a good view of tribalism, has just made the phenomenon in-your-face visible.
6
This essay describes our situation well. We are all left with the question of what to do about it. Tribalism seems to be an extremely robust tool for politicians, and I don't see it changing. However, with tribalism, it is not clear that a stable democratic government is possible; we will be condemned oscillations between the interests of tribal groups. Add to this the fact that modern marketing can make people believe anything and want anything, it is not clear how to escape.
2
- and the real problem might lie with what so many Americans believe - he is?
As Fredric Jameson said in his seminal work POSTMODERNISM,
or, The Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism "every position on
postmodernism in culture-whether apologia or stigmatization -is also
at one and the same time, and necessarily, an implicitly or explicitly
political stance on the nature of multinational capitalism today."
or, The Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism "every position on
postmodernism in culture-whether apologia or stigmatization -is also
at one and the same time, and necessarily, an implicitly or explicitly
political stance on the nature of multinational capitalism today."
2
you mean "Dadaist"?
Right?
No he isn" - he is what Jon Stewart told US - he is!
Right?
No he isn" - he is what Jon Stewart told US - he is!
3
- and its all the NYT fault as you guys never printed the truth about Trumps real - Jon Stewart provided already in 2013.
My grandmother had a word for him, Bulvan (loud mouth know-it-all; "a boorish, brutish person" ).
And that was before post-modernism.
And that was before post-modernism.
35
How about schtick dreck?
The opinions of these scholars do not add up to very much. Basically they are admitting that the truth cannot be defined. The purpose of the article seems to be to suggest that Trump is a liar, so the "truth" is stretched in order to make the case. Recently the trend has been to bring in "expert opinion" to bolster the case that Trump must go, so we have been burdened with the long-distance diagnoses of psychiatrists who seem to be violating the norms of their own profession in pronouncing Trump mentally ill. Then there is the expert opinion of physicians who express concern over Trump's eating habits. Now, to put Trump under a further cloud, epistemology is pressed into service. Plato would be turning over in his grave.
8
Ed, stop hitting the Missile Alert Button. Truth isn't relative. You can have your own opinion about the facts, but it doesn't alter fact. Just how you feel about them. Trump is a liar. People who worked for him didn't get paid. Women who married him should have had themselves tested for STD's. His Univ. was a con. The people appointed by him are, by and large, morons. Some are large morons.
1
Plato would be no fan of President "Alternative Facts."
The corollary to your argument that ' opinions of these scholars do not add up to very much',
is neither does yours.
is neither does yours.
follow the Ten Commandments or follow Trump, you can't do both
17
You seem to be in doubt on the most obvious part of this, that trump is, in fact, a liar. I'm just curious as to how someone could tell 2000 lies in one year and NOT be a liar. The only authority I need for this is the dictionary.
Mr. Edsall devoted a lot of time in researching and writing this column, and I believe he sincerely wanted to parse whether Trump is a "stealth postmodernist" or just a liar.
But this column? I'm not sure what Mr. Edsall wanted to accomplish. According to political science or philosophical definitions, Trump could very well be a postmodernist. But the fact remains that he is also a pathological liar.
This topic might provide an interesting academic debate, were we in other times. But we're not. We have some forty percent of our people with knowledge that Trump is a serial liar. And the same forty percent simply don't care.
When a large majority of a populace is impervious to the presentation of facts and reason, then the door to fascism is wide open. Trump voters will go along with literally anything their "dear leader" says, true or not. They can be given indisputable facts, and they simply don't care.
People like Trump voters are capable of incredible damage, even if they're not a majority in this country. Hitler was propelled into power with 38 percent of the vote. No doubt most Germans saw through his lies in 1933, but as long as a large minority was willing to carry out his every order, in the end, it simply didn't matter.
Circumstances are no different here. Trump could make up wholesale lies about any minority, and then insist that his voters begin to round them up. A hysterical claim, you say? To which I respond, do you really believe they would resist him?
But this column? I'm not sure what Mr. Edsall wanted to accomplish. According to political science or philosophical definitions, Trump could very well be a postmodernist. But the fact remains that he is also a pathological liar.
This topic might provide an interesting academic debate, were we in other times. But we're not. We have some forty percent of our people with knowledge that Trump is a serial liar. And the same forty percent simply don't care.
When a large majority of a populace is impervious to the presentation of facts and reason, then the door to fascism is wide open. Trump voters will go along with literally anything their "dear leader" says, true or not. They can be given indisputable facts, and they simply don't care.
People like Trump voters are capable of incredible damage, even if they're not a majority in this country. Hitler was propelled into power with 38 percent of the vote. No doubt most Germans saw through his lies in 1933, but as long as a large minority was willing to carry out his every order, in the end, it simply didn't matter.
Circumstances are no different here. Trump could make up wholesale lies about any minority, and then insist that his voters begin to round them up. A hysterical claim, you say? To which I respond, do you really believe they would resist him?
54
Sadly, I think you have just stated the objective truth.
1
Trump IS a liar and I don’t care whether he is a post- or pre-modernist.
I'm going with: just a liar.
36
Re-reading Huck Finn after so many years. It's FULL of charlatans and confidence men, hustlers and yahoos out to dupe and profit. The book is 130 years old. And today, the yocals still fall for a charade of lies when there is a good circus provided. As the Dauphin said, "If that don't bring em in I don't know Arkansaw!"
48
Trump is Heath Ledger's Joker who said, "Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! You know, I just... *do* things.”
53
Could tribalism be the explanation of the loyalty of some Trump supporter or could it be mob behavior? As bad as it sounds, is it possible that Trump’s supporters, those mindless “religiously” motivated, those racists, those xenophobes, are simply part of a mob of overwhelmed fearful people and not a tribe? Trump’s supporters are not a monolith but are seduced by Trump’s variety of irrational end points. Could it be that Republicans are exploiting Trump’s bizarre disjointed call to people who are angry, afraid, betrayed, and despairing? History demonstrates the eager embrace of racism, and religious zealotry by the Republican Party with their “southern strategy” and Catholic ensoulment of fetuses and denigration of women and divine right of male supremacy. Should we be asking how Republicans can persist in a democracy.
Is Trump a post-modern? Or is Trump a con-man who took advantage of the 8 year long denial of democracy elevation of racism to political theater, exploitation of religious fanatics condemnation of sex, sexual choices, and fetal personhood at the expense of women? Certainly, the electoral college and gerrymandering, the Clinton emails, the targeted Russian propaganda, the loss of manufacturing jobs, homes, and buying power coalesced around this con man. We may be better served with decisive actions to remedy this cosmic “bad luck”, than ruminating about a man who is by any measure an ignorant narcissist.
Is Trump a post-modern? Or is Trump a con-man who took advantage of the 8 year long denial of democracy elevation of racism to political theater, exploitation of religious fanatics condemnation of sex, sexual choices, and fetal personhood at the expense of women? Certainly, the electoral college and gerrymandering, the Clinton emails, the targeted Russian propaganda, the loss of manufacturing jobs, homes, and buying power coalesced around this con man. We may be better served with decisive actions to remedy this cosmic “bad luck”, than ruminating about a man who is by any measure an ignorant narcissist.
16
Both. Dangerously so.
7
Interesting column but the problem is that his supporters are gullible and uninformed and believe the lies he regularly tells. Trump supporters will read the column and claim that it is an elitist trashing of their hero and therein lies the problem.
4
Tribalism, coalitional-thinking. We'll do anything to avoid the obvious reason for trump. We're all tribalistic we all have biases, we're all racist to one degree or another but one political party, Democrats, strives hard to overcome that instinct through policy choices, through inviting a broad coalition of people to join in the fight to be better.
The other party, the GOP is truly the party of identity politics. The GOP has a single identity. White, as a sign of moral, cultural superiority. Every policy is shackled to that deeply held belief. Every utterance by Trump bespeaks that posture.
Trump is a liar who reveals the truth about the GOP every day in every way.
The other party, the GOP is truly the party of identity politics. The GOP has a single identity. White, as a sign of moral, cultural superiority. Every policy is shackled to that deeply held belief. Every utterance by Trump bespeaks that posture.
Trump is a liar who reveals the truth about the GOP every day in every way.
12
Trump lives in a world where the means justify the end. Any lie, persuasion, or deal (ugh, sick of that word) that gets him what he wants is acceptable. Will he lie under oath? Yes.
21
Johanna Oksala, a professor of social science and cultural studies at the Pratt Institute, almost nailed, "I don’t think Trump should be called a postmodern president, but simply a liar." He needed to add pathological liar! The rest a lot of comments, people who like to hear themselves talk!
.
.
2
Delusional autocrat cashing in on national greed.
8
FWIW, where I went to analytic philosophy school around 45 years ago we had an intermediate category to describe how we try to determine truth.
“Objective” is a heavy lift.
“Subjective” isn’t good enough.
So we talked about the “intersubjective” processes by which a proposition is tested for truth by the perceptions of others and by their attempts either to evaluate and replicate the scientific methods we brought to bear or to evaluate other critical systematic methods we brought to bear.
“Objective” is a heavy lift.
“Subjective” isn’t good enough.
So we talked about the “intersubjective” processes by which a proposition is tested for truth by the perceptions of others and by their attempts either to evaluate and replicate the scientific methods we brought to bear or to evaluate other critical systematic methods we brought to bear.
1
"How should we explain the fact that President Trump got away with making 2,140 false or misleading claims during his initial year in office?"
Before getting so philosophical, Edsall should have questioned the false precision of the number "2,140" and derived statistics such as: "That’s an average of nearly 5.9 claims a day."
1. How many of the "claims" should even be on the list?
2. Where are the estimates of uncertainty? Indeed, the Wash. Post never uses words such as "estimate", "error", or "uncertainty".
3. How would such an "analysis" look when compared to other politicians?
Edsall should acknowledge that the list, and similar ones from the Times, are nothing by politically-motivated rhetoric disguised as science.
In particular, the Post cites Bella DePaulo (Ph.D., Harvard, 1979) who says: "So I coded the most recent 400 of Trump’s lies using the same categories my colleagues and I used when we coded the lies in our research." That sentence presupposes that DePaulo has rigorously identified "Trump’s lies". Worse, DePaulo does her own "coding", so she can bias the results.
And here is another DePaulo quote that exposes DePaulo's biases: "The most stunning way Trump’s lies differed from our participants’, though, was in their cruelty." What is "cruel" is a matter of opinion, so DePaulo is blatantly biased.
2018-01-25 15:00:05 UTC
Before getting so philosophical, Edsall should have questioned the false precision of the number "2,140" and derived statistics such as: "That’s an average of nearly 5.9 claims a day."
1. How many of the "claims" should even be on the list?
2. Where are the estimates of uncertainty? Indeed, the Wash. Post never uses words such as "estimate", "error", or "uncertainty".
3. How would such an "analysis" look when compared to other politicians?
Edsall should acknowledge that the list, and similar ones from the Times, are nothing by politically-motivated rhetoric disguised as science.
In particular, the Post cites Bella DePaulo (Ph.D., Harvard, 1979) who says: "So I coded the most recent 400 of Trump’s lies using the same categories my colleagues and I used when we coded the lies in our research." That sentence presupposes that DePaulo has rigorously identified "Trump’s lies". Worse, DePaulo does her own "coding", so she can bias the results.
And here is another DePaulo quote that exposes DePaulo's biases: "The most stunning way Trump’s lies differed from our participants’, though, was in their cruelty." What is "cruel" is a matter of opinion, so DePaulo is blatantly biased.
2018-01-25 15:00:05 UTC
4
Just curious how low your bar really is: when trump repeatedly said that his inaugural crowd was the largest ever, was that lie or not? When he said without an iota of evidence he really won the popular vote, but for 3 million illegal votes, was that a lie or not? When he said he had the biggest electoral college win since Reagan, was that a lie, or not? That's just on day 1. I could go on for many pages, but I hope you get the idea. Well, were these lies, or not?
You should take your own medicine, and argue what IS, not what COULD BE.
Yes, the numbers Edsall provides could be falsely precise. Or they could be perfectly precise. Go read the documents, do some math and prove your point.
Yes, DiPaulo’s analysis could be biased against Trump. Or even FOR him. We won’t know until you give us an argument that is more than simplistic assertion.
Yes, the numbers Edsall provides could be falsely precise. Or they could be perfectly precise. Go read the documents, do some math and prove your point.
Yes, DiPaulo’s analysis could be biased against Trump. Or even FOR him. We won’t know until you give us an argument that is more than simplistic assertion.
Is post-modernism compatible with stable-geniusism?
5
A low-level hustler and conman all his life despite all the attempts to self-aggrandize his image and by paying himself into a shallow "celebrity" status, Trump will always be what everyone that is not blinded by his "charisma" can see: a liar, an opportunist, a narcissist, and a man without convictions always seeking self gratification and adulation from others.
17
Pinker has put his finger on a likely possibility:
"The answer lies in raw tribalism: when someone is perceived as a champion of one’s coalition, all is forgiven."
One evangelical minister has publicly given Trump a mulligan for his alleged affair with a porn star. And Symons nailed it when he writes that Trump
"... claimed that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his base would still love him. It’s not that they feel that killing a random stranger for no reason is morally ok; it’s that loyalty to their coalition leader is primary."
In an era when raw, loyalty-based tribalism is the coin of the realm, Trump's opponents need to steer clear of identity politics –– a bad habit Democrats keep falling into despite Hillary's self-inflicted wounds, e.g. her "deplorables" made at an LGBTQ rally, no less, and the recent government shutdown over the "dreamers."
Trump aptly reshuffled the cards on them when he implied that Senate Democrats were putting the rights of non-citizens over the good of the country.
Trump is also an expert at riling his opponents into an hysterical rage, causing them to fight him via an even greater commitment to identity-politics. This has been -- and still is -- a losing proposition.
Worse than a bloody nose, Senate Democrats walk away from the shutdown with lower approval ratings than Senate Republicans and lower odds of regaining majority control in November 2018.
When will they learn?
"The answer lies in raw tribalism: when someone is perceived as a champion of one’s coalition, all is forgiven."
One evangelical minister has publicly given Trump a mulligan for his alleged affair with a porn star. And Symons nailed it when he writes that Trump
"... claimed that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his base would still love him. It’s not that they feel that killing a random stranger for no reason is morally ok; it’s that loyalty to their coalition leader is primary."
In an era when raw, loyalty-based tribalism is the coin of the realm, Trump's opponents need to steer clear of identity politics –– a bad habit Democrats keep falling into despite Hillary's self-inflicted wounds, e.g. her "deplorables" made at an LGBTQ rally, no less, and the recent government shutdown over the "dreamers."
Trump aptly reshuffled the cards on them when he implied that Senate Democrats were putting the rights of non-citizens over the good of the country.
Trump is also an expert at riling his opponents into an hysterical rage, causing them to fight him via an even greater commitment to identity-politics. This has been -- and still is -- a losing proposition.
Worse than a bloody nose, Senate Democrats walk away from the shutdown with lower approval ratings than Senate Republicans and lower odds of regaining majority control in November 2018.
When will they learn?
3
It's easy to believe everything that Trump says if you only watch Fox news, his personal Goebles. He surrounds himself with psychofants who want his attention and love denying truth and facts to please their idol. He promotes this to prove that only he is right and able to get anything he wants.
2
Nah....this makes what Trump does sound like a new innovative strategy.
I think he has just bumbled into the same old demagogue propaganda playbook. When attacked and presented with a truth he does not like:
1. Attack the integrity of the person making the point.
2. Go directly to a confrontational “up is down” argument: the thing you think you saw with your own eyes did not happen. If you are confused, it is your own fault.
3. Present ‘alternative facts’ in rapid succession to create confusion. You do not need to present a logical argument, just enough noise to distract the low information voter.
4. Pivot to pre-selected talking points about great plans for the future. (No one can refute the future).
5. Wrap yourself in the flag. Point out that you are fighting these false charges so you can help America’s troops.
Trump (and Huckabee) repeat these propaganda techniques again and again because they work. On television you only need to fill twenty seconds of airtime, and the more you fill it with your talking points the better. But they are not post-modern or innovative.
I think he has just bumbled into the same old demagogue propaganda playbook. When attacked and presented with a truth he does not like:
1. Attack the integrity of the person making the point.
2. Go directly to a confrontational “up is down” argument: the thing you think you saw with your own eyes did not happen. If you are confused, it is your own fault.
3. Present ‘alternative facts’ in rapid succession to create confusion. You do not need to present a logical argument, just enough noise to distract the low information voter.
4. Pivot to pre-selected talking points about great plans for the future. (No one can refute the future).
5. Wrap yourself in the flag. Point out that you are fighting these false charges so you can help America’s troops.
Trump (and Huckabee) repeat these propaganda techniques again and again because they work. On television you only need to fill twenty seconds of airtime, and the more you fill it with your talking points the better. But they are not post-modern or innovative.
26
Might Trump be a fabulist, incapable of distinguishing between truth and fiction? It is tempting to believe that he is merely a liar, a con man out to enrich himself by deceiving his gullible marks. He has also been portrayed as want-to-be autocrat whose lies are part of a Machiavellian stratagem. But con men and Machiavellian politicians are rational. They wield lies as tools. Their deceptions are instrumental. They never lose sight of reality. But a fabulist lies because he has an overpowering need to see the world as he wants it to be. If reality doesn't live up to his expectations, so much the worse for reality. The fabulist will invent his own. In Donald Trump's world, he is always the greatest, always at the center of things, always a winner. His neediness and denial of reality would be pathetic if he weren't president of the United States. By elevating him to the highest office in the land we have empowered his delusions and loosened our own grip on reality.
2
Trump is just a liar, but first he lies to himself because his personality disorder demands it. Everything else flows from that because it puts him at odds with most of the rest of the world and with reality. Sometimes his world coincides or overlaps with the rest of us but much of the time it does not.
When you work for him you must comport to his distortion. Thus, as President, he inevitably distorts and destroys what already exists in our government making everything an extension of himself. Although he and all his enablers would deny this, they are destroying the necessary cooperative nature of our democracy because they demand that the “opposition” give way to them. And that way is the gate to authoritarian and plutocratic government.
When you work for him you must comport to his distortion. Thus, as President, he inevitably distorts and destroys what already exists in our government making everything an extension of himself. Although he and all his enablers would deny this, they are destroying the necessary cooperative nature of our democracy because they demand that the “opposition” give way to them. And that way is the gate to authoritarian and plutocratic government.
3
“Instead of granting him the title of postmodernist, let’s say instead that Trump is a nihilist who seeks to trample, to trash, to blight, to break and to burn.”
Instead of blaming Trump, isn’t it now time to blame his followers? This hardcore 35% of America is literally destroying our system of government and allowing a truthless con man to undermine the fabric of society.
Instead of blaming Trump, isn’t it now time to blame his followers? This hardcore 35% of America is literally destroying our system of government and allowing a truthless con man to undermine the fabric of society.
18
You give Trump too much credit for actually being cognizant of a philosophy; he is merely a needy oaf with a reptilian brain. Analyze him at will, but do not elevate him to anything more than he is.
The damage he has done, and continues to be done is shared by his enablers. May the day come where there is a reckoning and a rightening; a casting down of his abetors and a lifting up of the righteous.
The damage he has done, and continues to be done is shared by his enablers. May the day come where there is a reckoning and a rightening; a casting down of his abetors and a lifting up of the righteous.
6
"How should we explain the fact that President Trump got away with making 2,140 false or misleading claims during his initial year in office?"
That depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
1. If your goal is to have a parlor talk and focus on how to classify this man and his behavior, that is one thing.
2. But if you realize mold grows only on hospitable media, then you will look at the environment which helped and still helps this lying parody of a President be so successful in the most awful ways. You will see how CNN and MSNBC made his President.
Think about it:
--Fox viewers were already in the bag,
-- the undecideds were looking to CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo and the rest, who were more interested in eyeballs and clicks than in common sense
-- They are the ones who gave Trump the $2B in free advertising
-- To this day they have a hundred voices chiming in inane tidbits about his alleged misconduct, creating a cacophony of covfefe coverage, while his administration is coolly and comfortably undoing regulations, appointing judges (some of questionable wisdom and some of questionable character)
You will note I did not follow the formula of extensively quoting others and their thoughts and writing, or use statistics I cherry picked out of some report to buttress my thesis. No, I would prefer to state my opinion and keep it simple since this is a newspaper and not a technical journal. High Signal-to-noise not hi-falutin prose.
Fix the moldy media.
That depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
1. If your goal is to have a parlor talk and focus on how to classify this man and his behavior, that is one thing.
2. But if you realize mold grows only on hospitable media, then you will look at the environment which helped and still helps this lying parody of a President be so successful in the most awful ways. You will see how CNN and MSNBC made his President.
Think about it:
--Fox viewers were already in the bag,
-- the undecideds were looking to CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo and the rest, who were more interested in eyeballs and clicks than in common sense
-- They are the ones who gave Trump the $2B in free advertising
-- To this day they have a hundred voices chiming in inane tidbits about his alleged misconduct, creating a cacophony of covfefe coverage, while his administration is coolly and comfortably undoing regulations, appointing judges (some of questionable wisdom and some of questionable character)
You will note I did not follow the formula of extensively quoting others and their thoughts and writing, or use statistics I cherry picked out of some report to buttress my thesis. No, I would prefer to state my opinion and keep it simple since this is a newspaper and not a technical journal. High Signal-to-noise not hi-falutin prose.
Fix the moldy media.
7
Trump's narcissism and whatever other psychopathology he's got going on underlie everything he says. If people agree with him, his ridiculous and false assertions become truth, in his own addled mind and those of his followers. In reality, he has no larger vision, no goals for our country, and no understanding of politics, government, diplomacy, history, social or political norms, or any of the pressing issues causing so much present conflict. He wants attention, adulation, validation, money and power and will do or say anything, true or not, that gets him that. Issues don't matter and he has no larger plan. He has the finely tuned instincts of the accomplished sociopath that allow him to tap into the fears, confusion and powerlessness of his base, knowing they will follow him. He is nothing more than a self-serving, autocratic, lying sociopath. He probably can't even spell philosophy or postmodern.
4
All these words to try to delve into the mind of someone who is simply a bad man whose primary goals are to to enrich himself and crush his enemies. He's a liar. The rest of this article is nonsense.
2
Perhaps he learned of this from she of “alternative facts!”
“Stealth postmodernist or just a liar?” He’s neither. He’s dangerously deranged. Worse, the Republican Congressional delegation is indifferent and his “base” is ecstatic. End of discussion.
1
A nuclear physicist could argue that there is no such thing as solid matter, but I bet he/she would still duck if you throw a baseball at his/her head.
It may be possible to parse truth down to nothing, but in the macroscopic world that we inhabit, it is real. And Trump is simply a liar.
It may be possible to parse truth down to nothing, but in the macroscopic world that we inhabit, it is real. And Trump is simply a liar.
4
Trump is a liar who has lied for many decades....and has never paid a price for it. I don't know why the press continues to cover Sarah Huckabee's pressers. Nothing of note is ever mentioned and whatever she regurgitates is Trump's truth aka a lie. In fact, "Trump" should go in the thesaurus as a synonym of "lie"
4
Philosophizing Trump, I believe, justifies his actions and implies that there is some kind of underlying philosophy. But there is none.
Actions of Trump is based on one principle: make me rich and famous. His methods are based on instincts, much like that of a dog that can sniff out terror in other animals. He is good at sniffing things out, and has used lies and realities created based on his lies to attain his goals. He also has learned instinctively that fame and money, real or imagined, will act as smokescreens to deflect the truth.
We must tell the truth: Trump is a liar.
Actions of Trump is based on one principle: make me rich and famous. His methods are based on instincts, much like that of a dog that can sniff out terror in other animals. He is good at sniffing things out, and has used lies and realities created based on his lies to attain his goals. He also has learned instinctively that fame and money, real or imagined, will act as smokescreens to deflect the truth.
We must tell the truth: Trump is a liar.
2
"Trump is a nihilist who seeks to trample, to trash, to blight, to break and to burn."
Yes. Trump is evil. And his base worships evil.
I know...some of you will be unhappy that I'm calling a spade a spade, but lacking the courage to face the truth is a problem faced by every group of people throughout history when facing an evil threat. On the one hand you have the tribe that supports evil believing every lie from their leaders and questioning nothing. On the other hand, you have the tribe that is about to be destroyed telling themselves they are over-reacting and everything will work out fine.
Trump and his cohorts are out to destroy democracy in the USA and purge the country of all non-believers. How would YOU define that mission? You are in a pot of water and Trump, with republican approval and help, is turning up the heat. Time to wake up and get a clue.
Yes. Trump is evil. And his base worships evil.
I know...some of you will be unhappy that I'm calling a spade a spade, but lacking the courage to face the truth is a problem faced by every group of people throughout history when facing an evil threat. On the one hand you have the tribe that supports evil believing every lie from their leaders and questioning nothing. On the other hand, you have the tribe that is about to be destroyed telling themselves they are over-reacting and everything will work out fine.
Trump and his cohorts are out to destroy democracy in the USA and purge the country of all non-believers. How would YOU define that mission? You are in a pot of water and Trump, with republican approval and help, is turning up the heat. Time to wake up and get a clue.
8
We already know that Trump's a liar. In the same manner that the "reality" TV shows from whence he comes are real only in name, dressing him up through a debate about stealth postmodernism misses the point.
A more important question is whether Trump is a psychopath or just a sociopath, and by the time we get an answer to that question, it may be too late.
A more important question is whether Trump is a psychopath or just a sociopath, and by the time we get an answer to that question, it may be too late.
1
In the case of Trump, ideas such as post-modernism would be well beyond his interest or comprehension. There is an easier explanation that is as obvious as the nose on your face: Trump’s ideas and opinions are borrowed from Fox News.
Murdochism.
Murdochism.
3
He is a compulsive liar as a result of his textbook malignant narcissism.
That's overwhelmingly obvious to anyone who has ever had to deal with a malignant narcissist. Their only "reality" is that they are entitled to get whatever they want whenever they want it. Other people don't have the same rights; indeed, other people are just paper dolls who should be orbiting around their desires. The "truth" is whatever they want it to be.
That's overwhelmingly obvious to anyone who has ever had to deal with a malignant narcissist. Their only "reality" is that they are entitled to get whatever they want whenever they want it. Other people don't have the same rights; indeed, other people are just paper dolls who should be orbiting around their desires. The "truth" is whatever they want it to be.
10
Another great column from Thomas Edsall.
2
Trump missed his calling as a propagandist in Germany during the late 1930s.
2
Trump is nothing. He lives on borrowed money. He is owned by Russian mafia and the mob that use his empire to launder money. Why do you think he won't show his tax returns and told Mueller to back off? He is in the red. He owes billions to banks around the world. He is a fraud, a scam, a con, a nothing. He doesn't care about America. He is using the oval to recoup money to pay his debts.
15
And then there is the truth that a little over two millennia ago there was this man who was executed and then came back to life briefly and then ascended to heaven.
Try telling the army of believers that this is untruth.
Try telling the army of believers that this is untruth.
2
Lying appears to be a way of life for Trump. He relies on them to get through the day. Liars simply can not be trusted. Without trust credibility and integrity are unachievable. A liar is a liar is a liar. There is no reasonable path which can dignify lying.
Truth relies on actual fact not ones perception of reality or ability to manipulate fact by dishonest presentation. There is no middle ground. Anyone who believes there is or can be is fooling no one but themselves.
Truth relies on actual fact not ones perception of reality or ability to manipulate fact by dishonest presentation. There is no middle ground. Anyone who believes there is or can be is fooling no one but themselves.
4
If you have read the history, Mao and the Nazis each also understood how this works. If you repeat the lie often and loudly enough, it becomes the reality. When reading about that phenomenon elsewhere, I've always wondered how people could have possibly been so gullible. And now it's happening here.
2
For me, the mere raising of the question --- Is Trump a postmodernist or just a liar --- shows how little Edsall knows about Postmodernism and Trump. He might as well be asking if the persistent daily lies of my five year old son entitle me to legitimately raise the question whether my son is a postmodernist or simply a liar.
2
Maybe Dick Cheney was our first postmodern ‘president’. And another Donald, named Rumsfeld was the postmodern secretary of war.
2
You had to ask?
4
Chaos. The information age (in internet form) has existed for a scant 30 years - cell phones/texting/social media far less. Individuals are reigned in by systems called governments. Once anonymous individuals were allowed to be the equal of people with knowledge and experience chaos began to emerge.
The media presents false stories of how social media gets used to organize those in countries we feel are inferior to our own presumably leads to success - does anyone know how the Arab Spring turned out or just the hopeful stories about overthrowing oppression? Not so well actually. Better designed systems like our are easier to rip apart.
When systems become (or appear) chaotic, authoritarian figures are empowered (ie: Trump) and then they sow more chaos to entrench their position as authoritarian savior. I'm sure no one intended this result - yet here we are. Our once former systems the framers imperfectly designed that worked are being ripped apart rather than mended and it's all possible because of the digital age. Look up TED talks on 'fake news' - very enlightening how 12 year olds on a prank can turn news cycles these days. Ignorance isn't an effective survival tool in a digital age that isn't going away.
The media presents false stories of how social media gets used to organize those in countries we feel are inferior to our own presumably leads to success - does anyone know how the Arab Spring turned out or just the hopeful stories about overthrowing oppression? Not so well actually. Better designed systems like our are easier to rip apart.
When systems become (or appear) chaotic, authoritarian figures are empowered (ie: Trump) and then they sow more chaos to entrench their position as authoritarian savior. I'm sure no one intended this result - yet here we are. Our once former systems the framers imperfectly designed that worked are being ripped apart rather than mended and it's all possible because of the digital age. Look up TED talks on 'fake news' - very enlightening how 12 year olds on a prank can turn news cycles these days. Ignorance isn't an effective survival tool in a digital age that isn't going away.
2
It seems to me that a person of this ilk, left in a position of responsibility and spinning gossamer "nontruths" out of the thin air as a quotidian duty, will provide mere turmoil in the short term, increasing pain and disruption in the moderate term, and nothing short of permanent damage to institutions and day-to-day functions in the long term.
2
With an electorate that watches Faux News and believes their ‘postmodernism’, we risk becoming another former great power. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. Fox News is a mix of news and opinion. FCC rules state that a certain amount of time during the day must be hard news. The mornings and evenings are OPINION shows. Since this is Trump’s favorite means of getting information, we are doomed to irrelevance if we can’t get a third of our population to stop listening to him and Fox...
3
There is a daily commenter in these pages who marshals his considerable intellect to justify the most tenacious, treasonous actions of Trump. Many commenters here seem to be baffled at how this is possible.
Steven Pinker provides an explanation that many here who believe in pure reason should take into account:
The answer lies in raw tribalism: when someone is perceived as a champion of one’s coalition, all is forgiven. The same is true for opinions: a particular issue can become a sacred value, shibboleth, or affirmation of allegiance to one’s team, and its content no longer matters. This is part of a growing realization in political psychology that tribalism has been underestimated in our understanding of politics, and ideological coherence and political and scientific literacy overestimated.
Once tribalism becomes embedded in the political system, Pinker wrote,
the full ingenuity of human cognition is recruited to valorize the champion and shore up the sacred beliefs. You can always dismiss criticism as being motivated by the bias of one’s enemies. Our cognitive and linguistic faculties are endlessly creative — that’s what makes our species so smart — and that creativity can be always deployed to reframe issues in congenial or invidious terms.
Steven Pinker provides an explanation that many here who believe in pure reason should take into account:
The answer lies in raw tribalism: when someone is perceived as a champion of one’s coalition, all is forgiven. The same is true for opinions: a particular issue can become a sacred value, shibboleth, or affirmation of allegiance to one’s team, and its content no longer matters. This is part of a growing realization in political psychology that tribalism has been underestimated in our understanding of politics, and ideological coherence and political and scientific literacy overestimated.
Once tribalism becomes embedded in the political system, Pinker wrote,
the full ingenuity of human cognition is recruited to valorize the champion and shore up the sacred beliefs. You can always dismiss criticism as being motivated by the bias of one’s enemies. Our cognitive and linguistic faculties are endlessly creative — that’s what makes our species so smart — and that creativity can be always deployed to reframe issues in congenial or invidious terms.
180
The commenter to whom you refer (I believe) gets far too much credit for his intellect and writing ability. He essentially takes arguments that are already circulating in right-wing circles, adds a few obscure references (Google is a wonderful thing), and lards them with trademark “humor.” When pressed to support his argument with specifics, he feints and dodges like a gold-medal fencer.
I think he and some others see defending Trump as a debate-style challenge—as in, take the most ridiculous position imaginable and make a case for it. When it comes to this president, he doesn't have anything close to the skill required to pull it off. No one does.
I think he and some others see defending Trump as a debate-style challenge—as in, take the most ridiculous position imaginable and make a case for it. When it comes to this president, he doesn't have anything close to the skill required to pull it off. No one does.
3
In other words, a cult.
2
Psychologists don't have a good name for mass delusions. They're all lumped together as instances of "collective behavior", although there is a hell of a big difference between believing Trump and leaving a crowded room if it's on fire.
2
Sometimes less is more. This is my criticism of Thomas Edsall's article. He has crammed too many opinions from too many schools of thought--including sub-schools--on the subject of knowledge and truth. At the end of it I was lost in all the hair splitting.
Here's how I see it. While Michel Foucault has mentioned a great deal in this article there was no mention of Nietzsche. Trump is a Nietzschean rather than a Foucauldian. (I mean that of course entirely in the practical and not intellectual sense, since I doubt Trump has heard of either.) This may seem odd since Foucault is often thought of as Nietzsche's disciple.
But there is an important difference between the two. Nietzsche elevated the individual to a superman standing if he (let's keep it male) could cast off Christian, i.e. ethical, considerations in the course of the act. The Nietzschean is indifferent to right and wrong and will not allow ethics to constrain action. Truth will then automatically follow. It is a secondary feature of our lives. Dispensing with morality is of far greater importance.
Foucault "collectivized" that idea. For him, dominant groups manufactured truth to keep threats at bay. By conditioning society to accept certain things as given, and not amenable to change, they preserved power. But a Foucauldian world presupposes Nietzschean figures who will build structures from sheer force of amoral Will. If Trump is successful he will leave us with a world with a different conception of Truth.
Here's how I see it. While Michel Foucault has mentioned a great deal in this article there was no mention of Nietzsche. Trump is a Nietzschean rather than a Foucauldian. (I mean that of course entirely in the practical and not intellectual sense, since I doubt Trump has heard of either.) This may seem odd since Foucault is often thought of as Nietzsche's disciple.
But there is an important difference between the two. Nietzsche elevated the individual to a superman standing if he (let's keep it male) could cast off Christian, i.e. ethical, considerations in the course of the act. The Nietzschean is indifferent to right and wrong and will not allow ethics to constrain action. Truth will then automatically follow. It is a secondary feature of our lives. Dispensing with morality is of far greater importance.
Foucault "collectivized" that idea. For him, dominant groups manufactured truth to keep threats at bay. By conditioning society to accept certain things as given, and not amenable to change, they preserved power. But a Foucauldian world presupposes Nietzschean figures who will build structures from sheer force of amoral Will. If Trump is successful he will leave us with a world with a different conception of Truth.
2
The birther lie was rooted in tribalism. It is not that either Trump or the most rabid members of his "base" believed that Obama was born in Kenya; I doubt Trump ever believed it. Trump sought to establish a bond of loyalty to a base constituency that shared certain beliefs: that America was becoming less white and less of a land of opportunity for Caucasians and that unworthy minorities were reaping the benefits of the American dream to the detriment of that constituency. To solidify that bond Trump took
the most racist, outrageous position (without uttering the forbidden "N" word) affirming the belief he purported to share with his tribal base: unqualified, unAmerican minorities are usurping our birthright embodied in the American dream. Obama symbolized all of the unworthy usurpers.
It was not the veracity of the birther claim that mattered, but that Trump was willing to prove his loyalty to his coalition by making a claim which even if in fact was false, truthfully aligned with the tribe's anxieties and prejudicial beliefs. Trump kept the birther lie alive for years, convincing his tribe that the interests of the tribe was a bona fide conviction.
The irony is that there is a truth: Trump is a con man who gained the confidence of his disillusioned base and others to win the election and hand our government lock, stock and barrel to Wall Street, lobbyists and would be plutocrats.
I guess it's not illegal to belong to more than one tribe.
the most racist, outrageous position (without uttering the forbidden "N" word) affirming the belief he purported to share with his tribal base: unqualified, unAmerican minorities are usurping our birthright embodied in the American dream. Obama symbolized all of the unworthy usurpers.
It was not the veracity of the birther claim that mattered, but that Trump was willing to prove his loyalty to his coalition by making a claim which even if in fact was false, truthfully aligned with the tribe's anxieties and prejudicial beliefs. Trump kept the birther lie alive for years, convincing his tribe that the interests of the tribe was a bona fide conviction.
The irony is that there is a truth: Trump is a con man who gained the confidence of his disillusioned base and others to win the election and hand our government lock, stock and barrel to Wall Street, lobbyists and would be plutocrats.
I guess it's not illegal to belong to more than one tribe.
3
I wouldn't describe him as "just a liar". That's like describing Michael Phelps as "just a swimmer".
8
At its core, postmodernism is the assertion that a) all that is apprehended is apprehended from some (historical, cultural, psychological) perspective; and b) the perspectives of those in positions of power tend to be privileged in social discourse and the narratives they propagate get taken more seriously than those of marginalized people. Trump is an illustration of the second part of this--his lies would not be taken seriously by anyone if they did not come from a privileged source and support the interests of a privileged class. That doesn't mean he is in any way a postmodernist, just a cynical, ambitious sociopath. Postmodernism can be a useful way of understanding how conservatives have carried out their war on truth, however.
3
Thanks for this Dagwood sandwich of observations on the Trump phenomenon. Like blind men describing an elephant, these thinkers are all valid, each in a particular nuance.
Preceding presidents with preemptive warring, racial demagoguery & deconstruction of the welfare state will overshadow in retrospect the present occupant by a country mile. We can live through this plutocratic, vulgarian one-termer's hijacking.
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Preceding presidents with preemptive warring, racial demagoguery & deconstruction of the welfare state will overshadow in retrospect the present occupant by a country mile. We can live through this plutocratic, vulgarian one-termer's hijacking.
.
1
I'm afraid you are missing the point. People with Trump's level of narcissistic personality disordered mentality simply cannot "think straight." Their existence is an on-going battle to protect a threatened self esteem from (what they fear as) threats from every imaginable source.The neurons are snapping, they just don't have any coherent thrust. Survive the day, do what ever it takes to secure, to vanquish the (imagined) enemy. In effect, they are a slave to their disorder; out of control. We don't know exactly how bad Trump is, these people can't imagine they need help, we just know he is damaged goods. In any case, your premise is largely irrelevant. Trump has no idea what he is doing - other than survive the day; vanquish the demons and pump up his wounded self. Winning, attention seeking, praise, etc. A human tragedy - sad.
4
This is the essay I've been hoping someone would write. Thank you.
1
The emperor has no clothes! When will the political universe speak up and demand that he put some on or get off the stage?
2
USING TRIBALISM AGAINST TRUMP
The point that Trump's followers find support of their champion primary, and all his distasteful actions forgivable, is very prescriptive of how his power can be broken.
How do tribes dissolve, or replace their champions?
I do not know the answer, but suspect that social scientists do. I bet that the answer is the key to unhorsing Trump from the tribalists he is riding into self-destruction.
My guess is that two things cause the fall of a tribal leader:
1. Effective competition from another seeking leadership (including intenecine warfare or assassination);
2. A fateful leadership decision that causes immediate, real, personally-attributable pain for a majority of the tribe.
The "Resistance" to Trump should probably consult the social psychology of tribalism, not policy or publicity, to find its most effective expression.
The point that Trump's followers find support of their champion primary, and all his distasteful actions forgivable, is very prescriptive of how his power can be broken.
How do tribes dissolve, or replace their champions?
I do not know the answer, but suspect that social scientists do. I bet that the answer is the key to unhorsing Trump from the tribalists he is riding into self-destruction.
My guess is that two things cause the fall of a tribal leader:
1. Effective competition from another seeking leadership (including intenecine warfare or assassination);
2. A fateful leadership decision that causes immediate, real, personally-attributable pain for a majority of the tribe.
The "Resistance" to Trump should probably consult the social psychology of tribalism, not policy or publicity, to find its most effective expression.
2
The simplest fact that we know about truth is that we live and die in such a short span that we can never know what we think we know is true will prove to be what is absolutely true always. Science and modern thought accept this limit upon our grasp of absolute truth. Our lack of omniscience does not make truth relative nor a reflection of social consensus.
1
Regardless of how and when this political nightmare ends, Donald Trump’s appalling conduct as President will be catnip to analysts for decades. But regardless of the labels attached to him by scientists and journalists, his strange behavior is clear if we remember that his guiding belief seems to be, “I’m the boss here. I’m the boss of everything. Nobody can tell me what to do. I know everything I need to know. I always will. And anyone who doesn’t like it is WRONG.” As a human being he would be unworthy of notice to anyone (other than his psychiatrist) but as President the damage he can wreak is endless.
While we still have a country worth preserving, those in a position to exert some control over “the boss of everything” better get to work. And others need to explore the equally critical issue of why so many people believe such garbage and what can be done to reduce the gullibility of those who so foolishly put their confidence in megalomaniacs.
While we still have a country worth preserving, those in a position to exert some control over “the boss of everything” better get to work. And others need to explore the equally critical issue of why so many people believe such garbage and what can be done to reduce the gullibility of those who so foolishly put their confidence in megalomaniacs.
2
Have spent the last two years all but taking Trump's side. You have gone on, and on, explaining his appeal, and excusing his voters for making the single worst choice in American history. After a great deal rambling about nothing, you finally get around to the the truth. "Trump is a nihilist who seeks to trample, to trash, to blight, to break and to burn." The people that voted for him were severely deluded, or they agree with him. There is no third choice.
1
I think Trump is brilliant at 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater' as the basis for his proclamation to "Make America Great Again." He shows little or no consciousness of the greatness that existed before his election and since, which was obtained through research, reflective thought, and just plain hard work. And, he has an army of foot soldiers that support his 'theology' at every turn with any manner of anecdotal 'evidence' that undermine existential truth.
4
One way to understand the "postmodern" critique of "objective" truth is that it questions the "modern" claims to truth in the interest of truth itself--more probing questions, critiques of assumptions, not taking even the strongest claims for granted. In other words, the advance of reason, science, modern knowledge proceeds by complicating what we believe as true based on evidence, experiments, reexaminations, and criticisms. It is the antithesis of glib and superficial beliefs.
Unfortunately "postmodernism" and "relativism" have glib and superficial interpretations, many dismissive, and so do "objectivity" and "rationality." These need to be called into question as well.
Trump, along with all those who openly lie in the service of authority and power, should not be glorified by comparison. He and they simply lie, superficially and glibly, without regard to any defensible evidence or belief.
Unfortunately "postmodernism" and "relativism" have glib and superficial interpretations, many dismissive, and so do "objectivity" and "rationality." These need to be called into question as well.
Trump, along with all those who openly lie in the service of authority and power, should not be glorified by comparison. He and they simply lie, superficially and glibly, without regard to any defensible evidence or belief.
1
Please ask your Senators to attend this year’s reading of George Washington’s “Farewell Address”. He warned of many of the problems today, including factions.
Unfortunately, the reading has become a sparsely attended ritual with as little as two Senators in attendance: the reader and the acting speaker.
Unfortunately, the reading has become a sparsely attended ritual with as little as two Senators in attendance: the reader and the acting speaker.
1
Many people misunderstand "post-modernism" as somehow anti-modern, but that couldn't be further from the truth. The point is that it goes beyond modernism -- modernism (particularly since the Enlightenment) asserts the primacy of reason, of rational thinking, as the basis for moral (including political) truth. Mostly, postmodernists want to understand how systems of power, in whatever form it may take, corrupt our reasoning.
In other words, postmodernism takes modernism as its starting point. It doesn't seek to undermine or cast doubt on the existence of truth, but to enable a critique of the truth that exists.
Most people refer to Nietzsche as the first postmodernist, but I would suggest that John Stuart Mill sets the stage for it in his classic work, On Liberty. He argues that the truth must always be questioned, as this is what makes it a "living truth" instead of "dead dogma." In that sense, this is the value of Trump and Trumpism, in that it forces us to try to resuscitate ideas that we take for granted, such as the idea that facts matter.
With that in mind, I would disagree with Prado and say that what we see is not "post-truth" (which incorporates truth as a premise), but the death of truth. Let us hope that we can use this historical moment to remind ourselves of its importance, and thereby bring it back to life.
In other words, postmodernism takes modernism as its starting point. It doesn't seek to undermine or cast doubt on the existence of truth, but to enable a critique of the truth that exists.
Most people refer to Nietzsche as the first postmodernist, but I would suggest that John Stuart Mill sets the stage for it in his classic work, On Liberty. He argues that the truth must always be questioned, as this is what makes it a "living truth" instead of "dead dogma." In that sense, this is the value of Trump and Trumpism, in that it forces us to try to resuscitate ideas that we take for granted, such as the idea that facts matter.
With that in mind, I would disagree with Prado and say that what we see is not "post-truth" (which incorporates truth as a premise), but the death of truth. Let us hope that we can use this historical moment to remind ourselves of its importance, and thereby bring it back to life.
3
Just as no plan survives contact with the enemy, this entire analysis of post-modernism is fine up until the point one happens to hear Trump speak. This article details the many, many problems that arise from trying to squeeze Trump into the category of "postmodern thinker." It is telling that the category of "liar" presents no difficulties at all.
Trump has no commitment to objective OR "relative" truths because he abandons his own internal logic as a matter of pure convenience. Unemployment numbers were a "hoax" until they were "very real." Trump is committed to "cooperating" with investigations into his presidency, while simultaneously instructing witnesses not to answer the questions of investigators. Trump apologizes for vulgar, misogynistic words caught on tape, then insinuates it's not his voice. The list goes on and on.
The point is that even a person pushing the idea of their own personal truth... HAS a truth to push. Even if I vehemently oppose their point of view, I am capable of putting myself in their shoes and evaluating the progression from premise to conclusion (even if I dispute the premise). With LIARS, however, no such discourse is possible. Trying to piece together the rational basis of a liar's statements is impossible because there IS no logical basis (not even a subjective one). Neither is it relevant that Trump is worshipped by his agreeing base. Kim Jong-Un boasts even more loyalty from his "base," but he is a liar as well.
Trump has no commitment to objective OR "relative" truths because he abandons his own internal logic as a matter of pure convenience. Unemployment numbers were a "hoax" until they were "very real." Trump is committed to "cooperating" with investigations into his presidency, while simultaneously instructing witnesses not to answer the questions of investigators. Trump apologizes for vulgar, misogynistic words caught on tape, then insinuates it's not his voice. The list goes on and on.
The point is that even a person pushing the idea of their own personal truth... HAS a truth to push. Even if I vehemently oppose their point of view, I am capable of putting myself in their shoes and evaluating the progression from premise to conclusion (even if I dispute the premise). With LIARS, however, no such discourse is possible. Trying to piece together the rational basis of a liar's statements is impossible because there IS no logical basis (not even a subjective one). Neither is it relevant that Trump is worshipped by his agreeing base. Kim Jong-Un boasts even more loyalty from his "base," but he is a liar as well.
1
Well, it may "not usually (be) the job of political journalists to analyze postmodernism," but I would say that your crafting of questions and astute framing of responses has made for a singular, intellectually nutritious piece of daily journalism here, Mr. Edsall, and I salute you and the Times for making it available to us. Kudos!
3
What Edsall and the outraged editorial boards won't acknowledge is that they made for Trump: we're lied to daily by "serious" people and yet those lies don't trouble the self-declared defenders of public discourse in the slightest.
It's true that unlike Bill or Hillary Clinton, Trump's lies are unpersuasive, habitual, transparent and frequently trivial. But without his precursors, who prepared the public for governance by perennial falsehood and vacuous political campaigns, he'd be laughed at.
It's true that unlike Bill or Hillary Clinton, Trump's lies are unpersuasive, habitual, transparent and frequently trivial. But without his precursors, who prepared the public for governance by perennial falsehood and vacuous political campaigns, he'd be laughed at.
Bill Clinton left a full treasury; peace, and jobs. "W" spent the treasury on a war for oil, attacked a country which had nothing to do with 9/11: Iraq; he gave the treasury away in tax cuts for his rich cronies; he gave Cheney full powers to govern while he spent time on the "ranch"; the GOP came into power via gerrymandering, and remains in power today. The bill for the tax heist for GOP donors will come due in 2027, long after the current huckster in the WH is gone. Nixon's Southern Strategy paid off for the GOP, not so much for the disappearing middle class and the working poor. The British Empire fell due to constant wars and corruption at home; Rome fell for the same reasons. Empires can, and do fall with corrupt leadership. Trump would have been a draft dodger in WWII. Something to think about.
Calling Trump's "presidency" (those two words do not belong together) evidence of postmodernism in our politics does a huge disservice to the ideas that constitute postmodernism.
Broadly speaking, to the extent that postmodernism submits to the scientific method - as opposed to being merely another ideology - it argues that deeper truths (not the empirical simplicities of "how many Germans crossed the Rhine today) are not something that we know as absolutes, but things that we begin to understand better as our powers of observation improve. This is my understanding of how the word truth is contextualized in postmodernism, and I believe that most others who have spent considerable time on the matter would agree.
Imho, this article was, at best, an effort on the part of the author to arrive at a faux sense of erudition on what has become a too fashionable topic, born of the neuroses of intellectuals who look at Trump and try to arrive at these kinds of silly explanations lest their heads start to implode.
Broadly speaking, to the extent that postmodernism submits to the scientific method - as opposed to being merely another ideology - it argues that deeper truths (not the empirical simplicities of "how many Germans crossed the Rhine today) are not something that we know as absolutes, but things that we begin to understand better as our powers of observation improve. This is my understanding of how the word truth is contextualized in postmodernism, and I believe that most others who have spent considerable time on the matter would agree.
Imho, this article was, at best, an effort on the part of the author to arrive at a faux sense of erudition on what has become a too fashionable topic, born of the neuroses of intellectuals who look at Trump and try to arrive at these kinds of silly explanations lest their heads start to implode.
1
By now I think it's been pretty well proved that trump isn't anywhere near as complex as all of this analysis would suggest. He's a narcissist, doing what narcissists do. (It's probably why he won't release his tax returns: they would bust his myth of Successful Businessman.)
More worthy of analysis is the party that is so eager to tell this emperor that his new clothes look great. It's clear the GOP has been hijacked by zealots who will brook any violation of their stated mores for power to impose their agenda on the majority of the populace.
More worthy of analysis is the party that is so eager to tell this emperor that his new clothes look great. It's clear the GOP has been hijacked by zealots who will brook any violation of their stated mores for power to impose their agenda on the majority of the populace.
4
In the end, nothing says "reality" like a growling stomach. If Trump cannot provide for the welfare of his adherents, if the tax cut pittance that shows up in their paycheck doesn't pay for that new kitchen, if no one will pay for their child's addiction treatment, their perception of reality might change precipitously. Tribalism got Trump elected and maintains him for the moment, but in a tribe the king is also a talismanic symbol. When the rains don't come, no one suddenly becomes more expendable than the king.
4
I have to laugh. It's very simple and no mystery. Trump has no philosophy or idea of what he wants for the American people. He has a disorder plain and simple. Everything he thinks or speaks comes from extreme narcissism. He relates the events in the world around him to only how he can can advantage himself. The only truth in his world is what he needs it to be. And most importantly he doesn't care about anyone else. Not at all unless they have something for him. When the media and politicians finally look with a cold eye on what they have enabled I hope they will stop this nonsense of trying to explain what the average person already knows and call out Trump for what he is. A totally unreliable narcissist who cares only about himself and money and does not care who he destroys in the process of getting what he wants and that I'm afraid that includes our democracy.
3
Bravo. The press is indeed the major enabler. Narcissists thrive on this sort of mental craziness that would put the rest of us in intensive care in two days. If they would just ignore the man, he would crash in short order. "He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, he is a fool, shun him." Also, your second sentence - it seems they are . . . stupid? I should apologize, but I don't know what else to say. Or, don't they care? Do they have no psychology course requirements in the journalist's curriculum? There are excellent seminars as well. It's a circus and both Trump and the press thrive on it.
Postmodernism as discussed here is just a lot of blather. Without truth, there is no worthwhile discussion, science or government. My mother and so many other mothers knew that and impressed it on us as children.
Perhaps a better question: What it is about our time that would make "truth" no longer a pragmatic foundation for action, or a moral objective. Trump is plucking the strings of the tribalistic tunes that are already playing. He is an amplifier, for sure, but the focus should be on the health well-being of our public sphere, our capacity to deliberate, to listen and negotiate with those are dancing to the tribalist music.
1
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? That is the context of this kind of discussion. Modern thought starts with the notion that the simplest explanation that accounts for the confirmed facts is to be preferred. Trump has no convictions because he does not bother to consider philosophy. He lies for the same reason that little children lie, in an effort to avoid consequences which he wants to avoid, not because he is a postmodern intellectual.
2
This opinion ends on the point that tribalism as a universal human condition. Isn't "identity politics" just another example of this phenomenon? And doesn't our system of two-party democracy encourage a form of tribalism every 4 years by dividing our country into two almost equally numerous tribes of winner and losers.
It's not Foucault you should be looking to for an explanation, but McLuhan. Pinker says we’ve over-estimated the scientific and literate and under-estimated the tribal. McLuhan would tell us that what we’re seeing is actually an effect of the new media we're consuming — as we move away from print, we’re becoming more tribal. TV and radio started us down this path, the internet is accelerating it. Thus identity politics. Thus extreme partisanship. Thus Trump. McLuhan's pessimism about the tribalism inherent in the rise of the "Global Village" seems more justifiable every day.
182
The answers lie deeper than either Foucault or MacLuhan, in the indoctrinations we receive in our first families. That is where we become Donald Trumps or Trump supporters or believers in and seekers of objective truth. If tribalism plays a role, it's mainly insofar as tribes indoctrinate their children differently, some more severely, and the greater the severity of the indoctrination, the greater the propensity toward submission to authority and the more tenuous the commitment to objective truth. At the end of CIVILIZATION AND ITS DISCONTENTS, Freud writes:"If the development of civilization has such a far-reaching similarity to the development of the individual and if it employs the same methods, may we not be justified in reaching the diagnosis that, under the influence of cultural urges, some civilizations, or some epochs of civilization — possibly the whole of mankind — have become ‘neurotic’? But in spite of all these difficulties, we may expect that one day someone will venture to embark upon a pathology of cultural communities." Sadly, no one has done this. Those who have tried have been ignored or marginalized. Alice Miller came closest. FOR YOUR OWN GOOD and THOU SHALT NOT BE AWARE are relevant now, but today no one-- not even Mr. Edsall-- is addressing the questions Miller had already raised and party answered 35 years ago.
1
Didn't McLuhan say that the medium is the message? Which medium now dominates the message? TV or the Internet? TV gives us current news, more or less, and opinion as stated by TV's commentators. The Internet gives us various tribal groups who participate via Facebook, Twitter, etc. I still read the NYT; saw The Post movie about Katherine Graham; and, wondered if another KG exists. We have an unqualified, barely educated President in thrall to a plutocratic Cabinet with a financial agenda; we have a Congress corrupted by big donor money made legal by Scalia's Citizens United Decision: money is speech, as in an unlimited purchase of speech by rich plutocrats. The Democrats have to galvanize their base, emotionally and financially. Shumer and Pelosi cannot do that. The struggle for political power will be waged between young leaders of both Parties who have the energy and financial support to get into the ring. If the GOP cannot come up with a better message than the current tax heist in favor of their donors, the Democrats have to rely on small donors. I am a small donor; I am a member of the middle class who will pay for the tax heist come 2027 when reduced revenue will require a hefty tax increase, or a big decrease in the benefits we take for granted. The last time small businessmen won a war was in 1789. I am waiting for a Democratic Party message.
5
I very much agree with the distinction that although facts may be objective, there can never be any one objective interpretation of those facts, only more or less convincing narratives.
Our limitless access to information today lets us select whatever narratives we desire and arm ourselves with whatever facts most support them.
Our limitless access to information today lets us select whatever narratives we desire and arm ourselves with whatever facts most support them.
Thanks for bringing up this question. While I agree that calling Trump a post-modernist is wrong - the value of thinking about this question is Trump makes it very plain that "truth" can often be created by tribes and people in power. I would hope that we could all learn something about humanity from the way Trump so easily creates his own truths that his tribe dutifully follows. What I take from post-modernism is simply that when we see claims of truth we need to question what tribe/powers are claiming (& creating) that truth. Even scientists at times need to question the truths of their science in order to make breakthroughs. We all need to be questioning the truths we believe and those that others believe. Somehow we need to make a politics and a government that can function while respectfully questioning truths.
1
Citizens United and the archaic electoral college have created artificial mechanisms that have made presidential elections not a reflection of democracy but money and location. Location made some votes worth more than other votes. Money made certain individuals, not parties, the arbiters of the election. The recent big tax cut shows the real winners were not the voters. The Clinton allies bogus pursuit of the Russia stole the election story is an important indication that truth is up for grabs. Trump's phony populism was another example that tribalism is a powerful tool that under cut validity of the election. Steve Bannon caught the wave of white rage that was blindly directed. H. Clinton was stuck with a popular vote victory that was worthless.
7
Trump has amply demonstrated that he lacks any moral core and any attribute anyone would wish on someone who should be the face the US presents to the world. Lying is just one aspect of his grotesque personality. There can be no sugar coating, he is a despicable human being and a cold disinfectant spotlight is the only way to ensure people see him for what he is. But Democrats should beware, running as the anti-Trump party is not sufficient. They must convince most voters that they have a program that will address their concerns and will lead to a better country for all.
7
Just a liar? Considering the mountain of evidence I’m presuming the question is rhetorical.
14
Very interesting, and thought-provoking, academic exercise. However, I have to agree with many prior comments that Trump is simply a rank opportunist, and a pathologically insecure one at that. And firmly in the hands of other rank opportunists, who happen to be far more strategic than he. But, in the final analysis, seeds of any sort only grow in fertile soil. And, tragically and perhaps fatally, the US electorate is that soil.
19
Just a liar. The alternatives involve too many syllables and way too many sentences.
This analysis might be more productively applied to the President’s handlers and those who actually control events in DC. For example, Professor Edsall or someone similarly skilled might try to deconstruct the new US national defense strategy to see if it appears postmodern and what that means for our risks of being blown to pieces under this thought-free administration.
This analysis might be more productively applied to the President’s handlers and those who actually control events in DC. For example, Professor Edsall or someone similarly skilled might try to deconstruct the new US national defense strategy to see if it appears postmodern and what that means for our risks of being blown to pieces under this thought-free administration.
13
What do you me he got away with it?
He didn't get away with it. He's just a different politician for a different time.
Who's going to preside over the end of a nation? Who could competently deal with the total breakup of 50 states?
We needed to elect a liar to deal with the liars in congress, the liars at the banks, the liars that run our businesses and newspapers.
The whole anti-amazon story was made up by walmart, because they felt the pressure at their Sam's Clubs. Our news is generated by corporations.
We're sunk. This is what the end looks like.
He didn't get away with it. He's just a different politician for a different time.
Who's going to preside over the end of a nation? Who could competently deal with the total breakup of 50 states?
We needed to elect a liar to deal with the liars in congress, the liars at the banks, the liars that run our businesses and newspapers.
The whole anti-amazon story was made up by walmart, because they felt the pressure at their Sam's Clubs. Our news is generated by corporations.
We're sunk. This is what the end looks like.
3
Trump isn't clever enough to be a "Stealth Postmodernist," but he is still postmodernism's legacy. He is what we get when we allow "post truth" to supplant truth. There is another child of postmodernism in the headlines: Harvey Weinstein. His response to actresses who say "No" is exactly what we would expect in a culture that has embraced Derrida's philosophy that "we have no choice but to mean (to say) what is already, always other than what we mean (to say)".
Wouldn’t you say that Bill Clinton really set the stage here for presidential post-truthing? Trump is just doing a less sophisticated deconstruction of “what the meaning of ‘is’ is” on any given day. Both men are consistent equivocators. The difference: Trump, far less intelligent, lacks self-awareness, which, despite its benefits, also gets people into trouble.
Daniel S writes, "Wouldn’t you say that Bill Clinton really set the stage here for presidential post-truthing? Trump is just doing a less sophisticated deconstruction of “what the meaning of ‘is’ is” on any given day. Both men are consistent equivocators. "
the answer is NO. Everyone lies on occasion. Unlike Trump, Clinton sought the truth on non personal topics and attempted to understand it and propound it. Trump is unconcerned with the truth on any topic...and just says whatever he wants to in the moment. Clinton at least understood what the truth was, even when he lied, which was rare. Trump simply doesn't care what the truth is on any topic...only what will benefit him.
the answer is NO. Everyone lies on occasion. Unlike Trump, Clinton sought the truth on non personal topics and attempted to understand it and propound it. Trump is unconcerned with the truth on any topic...and just says whatever he wants to in the moment. Clinton at least understood what the truth was, even when he lied, which was rare. Trump simply doesn't care what the truth is on any topic...only what will benefit him.
2
Clinton and Trump are draft dodging baby boomers. The boomers learned that you either lied or died (in Vietnam). They won't know the truth if it snuck up behand them and gave them a wedgie
"'What is truth,' said jesting Pilate, and would not stay for an answer."
Trump's motto, courtesy of Sir Francis Bacon.
Trump's motto, courtesy of Sir Francis Bacon.
3
Trumps credo, paraphrasing Barry Goldwater:
Lying in the defense of power is no vice.
Truthfulness in the pursuit of justice is no virtue,
In other words the "Truth" is what you can get away with.
Lying in the defense of power is no vice.
Truthfulness in the pursuit of justice is no virtue,
In other words the "Truth" is what you can get away with.
3
The last two paragraphs of this excellent piece clearly define the mood of the country. History doesn't repeat but it does rhyme. Burke's oft quoted aphorism also comes to mind.
6
Its the machine behind Trump that is new, the same machine that fabricated lies about Bill Clinton murdering hundreds, about all the baloney they could throw at Democrats. It is much more pervasive in our culture, and more far reaching. An orangutang could be president, the machine, composed of the Sinclair Broadcast group that says right wing bullet points and owns 72% of all broadcast networks, to the lobbyists, to those infiltrating the universities with set right wing agendas, to the corporations that feed off of tax breaks instead of good products-- this is the coalition of the swilling. They have taken over. Trump is the product, but Republicans vote with him 97% of the time, when he isn't groping women, or stuffing his bank account.
38
Let's see - you have quoted 15 men, plus another 6 men who wrote books together, for a total of 21. You quoted 2 women. And you have left out a very important idea - that objective truth has been defined mostly by white heterosexual men over the centuries. Post modernism was an attempt to say, wait, what happens when we look at objective truth from different viewpoints.
For an example, look at how many male judges give puny sentences for rapists, and then look at the case going on right now, the Nasser case, and how a woman judge saw things.
Try finding more scholars who differ in viewpoints - they do, in fact, exist.
For an example, look at how many male judges give puny sentences for rapists, and then look at the case going on right now, the Nasser case, and how a woman judge saw things.
Try finding more scholars who differ in viewpoints - they do, in fact, exist.
28
it is pointless to defend postmodernism without considering the effect it has had on a generation of college students who have come away with the impression that "news" is a matter of choosing between varying narratives (just watch the young anchors on your local TV station )but without the tools to do so (most students do not use critical thinking in college, and are unlikely to do so once they leave)
1
"You quoted 2 women."
And you cited zero women.
"And you have left out a very important idea - that objective truth has been defined mostly by white heterosexual men over the centuries."
You didn't explain how "objective truth" has anything to do with prison sentencing.
And you cited zero women.
"And you have left out a very important idea - that objective truth has been defined mostly by white heterosexual men over the centuries."
You didn't explain how "objective truth" has anything to do with prison sentencing.
2
Barbara's reasonable complaint could be given a better basis. The kind of "truth" that is connected to power (any kind of power) is the opposite of what "objective truth" means.
If the truth shall set you free, it’s safe to assume that any postmodern or Trumpist gobbledygookian variation thereof will have precisely the opposite tyrannical effect. Or, to paraphrase the high priest of bop, Thelonious Monk, I’ll take my truth “straight, no chaser”.
6
Great, sensational article. Very valuable. It helps to read this kind of analysis every now and again just to keep from going crazy. What was not stated as explicitly as it should have been, however, is that Trump presents a problem not because he is Trump but because his followers sustain him and support his nihilism. Also, tribalism suggests that there are two sides to this problem. Perhaps. But that only means that tribes protecting themselves from xenophobia are as corrupt as the xenophobes, or that morally we can't differentiate between the two. This type of relativism must be rejected. Anyway, let me repeat: great article.
5
This is a well researched and thoughtful analysis. Still, perhaps it is more useful to cut to the chase. Trump is simply a classic conman. He lies and exaggerates for personal enrichment and aggrandizement. The only appropriate response for decent, patriotic Americans is to resist him at every turn. If a convincing majority of citizens don't reject him and his enablers at the polls, the American experiment is lost.
22
The headline should contain nihilist. By even suggesting that he might be some fantasyland 'stealth postmodernist' you're contributing the unwarranted normalization a man who simply doesn't deserve it. His supporters like the nihilist in him without even knowing what that word means. But to give it some kind of cool-sounding alternative and positive sounding name, you are feeding into this idea that he's somehow the 'genius' he says he is and that the other 63M+ of us just don't get it. The reason this idea is unwarranted and scary is that we've already seen horrific re-framing at work. How else could you get a 'populist' president who is anything but one?
8
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Post-modernism, post-shmodernism, as long as the person in question makes an effort to address facts, be coherent, be consistent, and have a modicum of empathy. When one fails on all counts, one is merely a liar and a person worthy of contempt. Leave the so-called post-modernism to the art critics and students of literature.
10
Trump uses speech to get what he wants for himself. It's not a tool to express ideas or truth—it's a tool to manipulate people. He evaluates the effectiveness of his speech acts based on whether they get him more money, sex, praise, or power. Truth has nothing to do with it.
9
Pinker gets to the heart of it.
"The answer lies in raw tribalism: when someone is perceived as a champion of one’s coalition, all is forgiven."
We saw a perfect example of this yesterday when Tony Perkins, head hypocrite of the "Family Research Council", gave Trump a "mulligan" for the Stormy Daniels affair and every other bad thing that Trump has ever done or said.
As long as those lies further the strategic interests of the group, the distinction between truth and lies falls away and becomes irrelevant.
The only real ground Trump is breaking here is that the "toolbox" he uses is far more crude and transparent than his predecessors in the GOP.
His lying and appeals to racism aren't obliquely stated or coded, they are obvious for all to see, which is a huge part of his appeal and why he he was able to crush his parties competition for the nomination.
Trumps election in a perverse way has given a "mulligan" to everybody who likes to lie and cheat their way through life.
It's more than obvious how that message can resonate with people across all ethnic, racial and class lines, and that is the unique danger Trump poses.
He's a con man for us all.
"The answer lies in raw tribalism: when someone is perceived as a champion of one’s coalition, all is forgiven."
We saw a perfect example of this yesterday when Tony Perkins, head hypocrite of the "Family Research Council", gave Trump a "mulligan" for the Stormy Daniels affair and every other bad thing that Trump has ever done or said.
As long as those lies further the strategic interests of the group, the distinction between truth and lies falls away and becomes irrelevant.
The only real ground Trump is breaking here is that the "toolbox" he uses is far more crude and transparent than his predecessors in the GOP.
His lying and appeals to racism aren't obliquely stated or coded, they are obvious for all to see, which is a huge part of his appeal and why he he was able to crush his parties competition for the nomination.
Trumps election in a perverse way has given a "mulligan" to everybody who likes to lie and cheat their way through life.
It's more than obvious how that message can resonate with people across all ethnic, racial and class lines, and that is the unique danger Trump poses.
He's a con man for us all.
20
I think Trump is a Postmodernist, because he's a byproduct of the alt-right, which is the Postmodern version of Postmodern Leftism (commonly known as identity politics). Postmodernism has a glaring feature which is irrationality (anti-Illuminism) by absolute relativism.
As a historian, I have a long-term bias. My "theory" is that the capitalist class has been playing a "cat and mouse" game with the working class in the ideological front since the Paris Commune of 1848 and the birth of Marx's theory.
After the fall of classical liberalism (1917), universal suffrage was forced upon the elites of the West and there was fear socialism would impose itself through the ballot box.
This fear proved unjustified after the fascist victory over communism in Italy demonstrated Karl Popper's "public opinion" theory was correct: pro-capitalist ideas had a chance to beat socialist ideas "in the streets" (i.e. with the people). Western industrialists then funded fascism (and its German version, Nazism) as a tailor-made anti-communist ideology for the masses. Nazifascism won against Communism in 1945, and the Cold War and social-democracy were born as a result.
Then social-democracy became the new fashion, and the capitalists crafted the anti-social-democracy doctrine, neoliberalism, to neutralize it. Neoliberalism was finally victorious in 1975-1980.
Cornered, the "left" then resourced to Postmodernism, and its identity politicss culminated with Obama's election. Enter the "alt-right".
As a historian, I have a long-term bias. My "theory" is that the capitalist class has been playing a "cat and mouse" game with the working class in the ideological front since the Paris Commune of 1848 and the birth of Marx's theory.
After the fall of classical liberalism (1917), universal suffrage was forced upon the elites of the West and there was fear socialism would impose itself through the ballot box.
This fear proved unjustified after the fascist victory over communism in Italy demonstrated Karl Popper's "public opinion" theory was correct: pro-capitalist ideas had a chance to beat socialist ideas "in the streets" (i.e. with the people). Western industrialists then funded fascism (and its German version, Nazism) as a tailor-made anti-communist ideology for the masses. Nazifascism won against Communism in 1945, and the Cold War and social-democracy were born as a result.
Then social-democracy became the new fashion, and the capitalists crafted the anti-social-democracy doctrine, neoliberalism, to neutralize it. Neoliberalism was finally victorious in 1975-1980.
Cornered, the "left" then resourced to Postmodernism, and its identity politicss culminated with Obama's election. Enter the "alt-right".
The alt-right existed in the USA long before the 'left' took its first breath.
Call it what you want, Trump cannot be trusted, except in service to himself. Debate over “liar” or some other term to describe more precisely his way in who he is, may at this point having too much time on one’s hands or the lack of a good hobbie. Hard as it is to accept, he’s the president ... and the nation is, hopefully, learning a lesson from this about what is to be avoided in the future as regards head of state.
3
I think it is time to say that an important segment of the voting population, made a horrendous mistake. The man is a liar with a bigger pulpit now, from Howard Stern's audience to the world is a big jump, but he remains his small self that always was!
11
"Smudge reality and work behind the scenes" is the order of everyday! Donald Trump et al. have some crude violent vision of the world that is not beneficial to anyone themselves included.
We have had presidents before whose "commitment to the institutions of self-government" were dubious at best. The recent film "The Post" reminds us of how we were lied to in order to prevent a series of presidents from having to reveal an important truth. The difference with Trump is that he's completely out front. There's no need for any Pentagon Papers to suddenly and dramatically reveal that he's a liar and a fraud. Maybe we should be grateful for that; forewarned is forearmed. What will be interesting is to see whether we do anything about it or simply sink into the quicksand of that "plebeian culture of vulgarity."
1
Using Ferdinand de Saussure's linguistic terms where "langue" is the language system and "parole" is the act of speaking, could it be that our society has been moving in the direction of replacing langue with parole? That parole has attained the ability--which some linguists and philosophers and critic believed was not possible--to escape the narrative limits of the langue? If langue was the power structure that defines the limits of what can be said and what it means, then the new parole is turning langue into gibberish. Can the semiotic distance between "sign/name" and "object/verifiable referent" become so vast as to destroy the langue/language/system's utility and meaning? If langue was an anchor, are the current manipulations of parole creating lasting damage to culture? As the tribalism argument suggests, does this appeal to our pre-langue culture in pre-history where survival was all and morality non-existent? A most primitive us versus them? The postmodernist blamed the hegemony for being corrupt and co-opting any new challenge to authority, right? If then ultra elite/wealthy are the new hegemony then the postmodernist might say, they are maliciously redefining langue into something insidious but nothing new. The Nazis were straightforward in their rhetoric of scapegoating and they employed ridiculous pseudo-science. This new gibberish method for gaining and keeping power may be just as effectively dangerous but harder to control.
The key topic here is doubt (skepticism). Doubting is a bedrock stance of the scientific method, which seeks to test propositions through objective and repeatable methods (experimentation). Truths are verifiable and durable.
We have recently learned to doubt the sources of information. Most information we receive through advertising for products, policies, or politicians is suspect, because it is devised to profit the source, not necessarily the recipient. Unfortunately, most American haven't developed the critical thinking skills needed to rationally assess fact from fiction, and rely mostly on emotional reaction. Fox News influences more opinion than the New York Times.
Doubt is now further weaponized as a political tool to undermine the credibility of inconvenient truths emerging from any source, even objective repeatable science or authoritative journalists, because they are bad for profits, popularity, or power dynamics. Lies are presented as "alternative facts" and valid criticism is labeled as "fake news".
Philosophize all you want. In politics, commerce, law, and other human interactions, persuasion depends far more on emotional tone than on scientific fact and rational thought. Most Americans are scientifically illiterate and incapable of critical analysis.
At the same time, nature adheres to laws, and flaunting those laws will eventually cost us all...
We have recently learned to doubt the sources of information. Most information we receive through advertising for products, policies, or politicians is suspect, because it is devised to profit the source, not necessarily the recipient. Unfortunately, most American haven't developed the critical thinking skills needed to rationally assess fact from fiction, and rely mostly on emotional reaction. Fox News influences more opinion than the New York Times.
Doubt is now further weaponized as a political tool to undermine the credibility of inconvenient truths emerging from any source, even objective repeatable science or authoritative journalists, because they are bad for profits, popularity, or power dynamics. Lies are presented as "alternative facts" and valid criticism is labeled as "fake news".
Philosophize all you want. In politics, commerce, law, and other human interactions, persuasion depends far more on emotional tone than on scientific fact and rational thought. Most Americans are scientifically illiterate and incapable of critical analysis.
At the same time, nature adheres to laws, and flaunting those laws will eventually cost us all...
So true. But, now what? Destruction is always easier than construction. How do you induce/persuade/force conservatives away from the most destructive elements in their world view? Will they change only in their own deaths? Or are they so destructive that they would rather die than do something difficult like being constructive? And what do the constructive people do in the meantime? We cannot isolate ourselves from the mess like the very rich are able to do by virtue of their mobility. How many losses will we accept before we, as a group, decide it's kill or be killed?
I believe the ideas contained here fail to recognize one feature of Trump's pathology, namely that the truth is what he thinks at each moment. In other words, he is no liar, he only tells us of what his narcissistic construction of reality is at that particular moment. Untruth for him is any conflicting idea.
3
Wow....and just like that I find myself less concerned by a future where machines running logically derived “artificial intelligence” govern our daily lives than I am terrified by the thought of another 3-7 years of Trump as POTUS
There is a major difference between 1) absolute skepticism (doubting everything), including such things as Buddhist notions of the illusory nature of the commonsensical world, 2) postmodernism, and 3) lying. Absolute skepticism is a philosophical position that is quite difficult to practice. Postmodernism, as this op-ed explains, is about interpretation and hidden meanings and strategies. Lying is about saying of what is, that it is not, and of what is not, that it is (as Aristotle once said).
Trump does not engage in #1
Trump does play his hand at manipulative strategies in his statements.
Trump also lies a lot.
It's time that reporters pay attention to what he is doing and when. To say the campaign did not talk to Russians is a lie. To say that talking with Russians at the time was just having a conversatin is a combination of ignorance, self-deception, spinning, and intentional distortion. To ask whether there really is such a thing as Russia is a another matter. For lying so consistently and with the intention of breaking the law Trump should be removed from office by election or impeachment. For spinning and manipulating he should be challenged by the press in a sophisticated way. When he denies the existence of Russia he should be removed from office for mental incompetence or admired as a radical philosopher.
Trump does not engage in #1
Trump does play his hand at manipulative strategies in his statements.
Trump also lies a lot.
It's time that reporters pay attention to what he is doing and when. To say the campaign did not talk to Russians is a lie. To say that talking with Russians at the time was just having a conversatin is a combination of ignorance, self-deception, spinning, and intentional distortion. To ask whether there really is such a thing as Russia is a another matter. For lying so consistently and with the intention of breaking the law Trump should be removed from office by election or impeachment. For spinning and manipulating he should be challenged by the press in a sophisticated way. When he denies the existence of Russia he should be removed from office for mental incompetence or admired as a radical philosopher.
1
DT is a narcissistic con man who for his whole life has lied to everyone he has ever spoken to, including himself. Every day. Every hour. Lying is DT's psychological version of breathing. His mind cannot function without it. That being said, our government and governments all over this planet use "alternative facts" to control the people that they represent. And we let them. We have allowed the conditions that created the space for DT to exist as a leader. He who is what our government has become, but on steroids. Postmodernism is an interesting term. Too fancy for DT and the millions who took the bait and voted for him. These are the same people in the party who keep voting against their own best interests. Let's call it "Post-WWE-wrestling-is realism."
3
Trump is the cartoon that happened when our failed democratic process allowed wealth and obsessive conservatism to win the day. By stoking the fears of ignorant people, by nostalgia for a past that never was, by trying to hide from what our scientific community has shown us to be what is really out there, and by demonstrating that "Americans" lack courage.
2
Kleptomaniac.
It appears trump simply desired a bright shiny object called "the presidency".
It appears trump simply desired a bright shiny object called "the presidency".
...or it could just be that big-money has become so entrenched as to warp everything.
2
Pinker says, apropos of lying, that "when someone is perceived as a champion of one's coalition, all is forgiven." I disagree.
I should note that I have no empirical data to evaluate this claim. Does Pinker? I see it as being literally true for Trump supporters, in that it is perfectly patent and they even admit this trait. That may make it true about THEIR coalition, but distinctions must and do exist between coalitions.
In my coalition, at least from my own perspective, truth (to the fullest extent it is or can be perceived as "objective") is the highest priority. E.g., the left (my coalition) may not like international trade deals, but I do. Leftists speak out against them. The truth, however, is that they serve (in the long-run) the interests of everyone, which, in any event, is a greater good than the interests of Americans alone. Plus, in the very long-run they serve the interests of Americans, too. I "go against" the coalition in this - and many - things.
If a member of my coalition tells a lie, I hold that as an even greater offense than if a Trump-type person lies. I hold that member in greater contempt. That, I believe, is a characteristic of MY "coalition," even if it is not one for Trump/GOP.
As we go forward with this discussion, let's dissect this issue with a sharper scalpel, please.
1
Newt Gingrich, who mightily helped tip us down this slope, was being interviewed about the incorrect perceptions of Trump's supporters (about the economy I think). He acknowledged their error but countered "but they believe it". Interviewer, as dumbfound as I at the idea, objected and Gingrich bore down - it doesn't matter what the facts are; it's what they believe.
At first I was outraged by even the idea of this. But now I see it's true. And it's a bit frightening.
4
I fail to the difference between what Trump does and what journalists do. There is no such thing as objective when everyone's view point of an event is different. When I worked at a paper, I literally (from my viewpoint) witnessed a room full of journalists recall different "facts" about a story that was told to them all at the same time in the same room. It's called shaping reality and has been going on 5000 years.
Thanks for showing that postmodern criticism is not Trumpism. Now please agree that our moral imperative is to overcome the attractions of tribalism that Trump and his supporters feel. It is regressive, moving toward the bestial, and less evolved to indulge in tribal fantasies and urges. Our laws and norms (like telling the truth, and respecting repeatable scientific enquiry) may be burdensome to respect, but they are also the tools toward human improvement and moral higher ground.
2
Are there schools anymore that teach Robert Penn Warren's "All The King's Men"?
It was required reading when I was in high school, a fictionalized account of the rise and fall of Governor Huey Long of Louisiana, a Trump predecessor in the thirties albeit one with no access to Twitter.
I watched the movie version last night, the 1949 one with Broderick Crawford,
and the similarities between the type of gutter politics engaged in by Huey Long (Willie Stark in the movie) and Donald Trump makes the movie seem highly relevant today.
The more things change, the more they don't.
1
... make the movie...,.
1
The grand narratives that, according to postmodernism, are constructed by some to manipulate others are not constructed with the consciousness that they false. The constructors believe in the narratives, which have been constructed bit by bit, as much as the people being manipulated. In fact, the constructors and propagandists are controlled by the narratives too. Lying of the sort Trump engages in is different. You might call it the normal sort of lying. The person telling the lie believes that what he is saying is not true. He does it to manipulate others, or to avoid the consequences of his own behavior, but he is not among those that are hoodwinked, though in the end he may wind up as damaged by the lie.
Long before deconstruction became a systematic investigation of power and truth, Jose Ortega y Gasset postulated in "The Revolt of the Masses" that the spread of democracy would devalue norms and standards and reduce issues of right and wrong to the mass judgments of unqualified people. If we substitute "populism" for democracy, we can see how Trump has enabled his own authoritarian project by enlisting followers who care only either for their own interests (e.g. the super-wealthy) or a misguided view of their own interests (those who've been duped). Mass media, especially social media, have made it easier and easier to construct alternate realities and build coalitions of the willfully ignorant, the true believers, and the artfully criminal members of the Trump coalition. The one factor that may operate to break the spell of his dominion is the truth as revealed by history. Trump continues to have the problem of matching words and realities. The longer he tries and fails, the closer he comes to losing his grip.
4
I had an employee working for me that lied continuously. By the time I would research something she said and confronted her with it, she would make up another story and the cycle would go on and on. I could never catch up with the lies. I became convinced it was unconscious. She wasn't even aware of it and Trump is the exact same way. Lying is a conscious behavior. Doing it unconsciously and automatic is paranoia. They were born this way.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/opinion/davos-corporate-social-impact...®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=7&pgtype=sectionfront Kristof’s column today asks a more vital question in what has become America. The Business World is all about Greed and the SCOTUS has corrupted democracy by stealing speech and giving it to Corporations with money. These acts alone have invited the reinstitution of Aristocracy. Post-modernism? How is that different from Aristocracy?
1
The problem is that, whether or not responsible academics realize that postmodernism is not opposed to objective truth, the popular perception of postmodernism is that it means that "anything goes," or that "nothing is more true than anything else."
Professor Butler's claim - that Trump's lying can't be a form of postmodernism, because to understand postmodernism you have to read, and Trump doesn't read - is, unfortunately, beside the point. History is full of examples of bad, denatured, distorted versions of academic ideas entering the culture and being used for malign purposes. I'm afraid that is what is happening here: Academics interrogated truth - non-academics and the culture at large got the impression that "questioning whether anything is really true" was modern and fashionable - an unscrupulous non-academic demagogue used this now commonly accepted impression to undermine the culture's confidence in truth.
It doesn't matter if Trump misrepresents postmodernism, or even if he knows what postmodernism is. He has exploited a vulnerability that irresponsible and poorly understood postmodernism created.
Given that so many postmodernists have (like Trump) enjoyed the cachet of being "contrary," and given that they have often written in intentionally obscure language that seems itself to undermine the idea of the clear expression of truth, I fear that they must bear at least some of the responsibility.
1
As a postmodern philosopher, all I can say is If you do not know what postmodernism is, I suggest you start to learn because the barbarians have not only breached the gates, but they are now running things.
Here are just a few postmodern thoughts to add to this column.
Just as a cat does not need to know that it is a cat to function properly in the world, Trump does not need to know about postmodernism to use its properties, characteristics and arguments to be successful.
Also, with everyone focusing on Trump, you neglect to look at the postmodern world around and see how the postmodern world empowers him.
The political structure of postmodernism shows that the power dynamics that feed into the realm of the political differ from those of modern politics. Today, the General Will (political narrative) originates in the power dynamics found between you and those you interact with in the Digital Estate. This is called Digital Association.
In digital association, there exists the realm of the political, and it is constructed through your interactions with others in the form of tweets, emails, favorite Facebook posts, videos watched etc. This postmodern individual political narrative is neither true or false. It is a narrative that is constantly under construction and interpretation.
Belief is suspended until that time in which you have to act.
It this structure that supports Trump and his narrative.
J.R. Werbics is a member of the Canadian Philosophical Association
1
Donald Trump often strikes me as a bullying 5th grader elected by admiring younger students. This article, however, has me rethinking that analysis, promoting Trump to post high school. In his Scheme of the Intellectual and Ethical Development of College Students, William Perry identifies point 4 Late Multiplicity (of 9, so not quite half-way to full college development) as "everyone has a right to their own opinion . . . some students see their task is to shoot the breeze." Truth, postmodern or otherwise, doesn't seem to matter.
1
Sorry for the typo. Should read "some students see their task is to shoot the bull."
The points about tribalism are well taken. The facts have long since proven that the conservative ideology is an economic failure, with record income inequality growing under the influence of Reaganism from 1981 to 2007 and the deregulation-driven financial crisis thereafter. Conservatives then argued for austerity rather than stimulus, which fortunately was overriden by Bernanke and Obama, turning the economy and the country around for the better. The major variables were back to pre-crisis levels by 2014, we got 20 million more covered by health insurance, and the boom has continued since then.
However, since the crisis, rather than learn from their mistakes, conservatives have doubled-down, putting Republicans in power all over the country, slowing down the Obama recovery as much as possible. They only seem to care that Trump will "Make America White Again" and ignore the lies, the tax cuts for the rich and corporations (of which about 1% are going to workers vs. shareholders if Apple is a proxy for the remainder), and the 3 million more people without health insurance due to Trump's ACA sabotage.
There is a cult-like, fact-free ideology in conservatism today, and it simply has to be voted out by people that know better, who consider what the CBO says about the economy first and not Fox News.
2
I love philosophy--classical, modern, post-modern, whatever--as much as anyone. But this analysis is using a sledgehammer to open a peanut. I'm not even sure DJT's shell has anything inside of it.
3
Are there schools anymore that teach Robert Penn Warren's "All The King's Men"?
It was required reading when I was in high school, a fictionalized account of the rise and fall of Governor Huey Long of Louisiana, a Trump predecessor in the thirties albeit one with no access to Twitter.
I watched the movie version last night, the 1949 one with Broderick Crawford,
and the similarities between the type of gutter politics engaged in by Huey Long (Willie Stark in the movie) and Donald Trump make the movie seem highly relevant today.
The more things change, the more they don't.
2
I thought this was an interesting article that places the President's behavior in a broader intellectual, social and cultural context. One thing I would add and that needs to be addressed is the role of the economic system.
Years of lies, misrepresentations, come-on's and outright manipulation by business and advertisers have set the stage for the relativism and cynicism we see impacting our political process and seeping into the social fabric.
While the inability to distinguish between truth and lies is not limited to one class, those who are less well educated are less able to tell one from the other, especially on matters that need to be adjudicated by research and fact-finding. This may help explain the class/educational divisions that we have seen in support for Trump.
Dionne, Mann and Ornstein's description of Trump's tendency to think in autocratic terms, his contempt for the judicial system, his hostility toward and desire to undermine the power of government is correct but falls short of the mark.
These attitudes have and are the province of the capitalist/owning class. Autocratic and rapacious in their own sphere, they have little tolerance for limits, democratic norms or any power than can limit their greed.
The capitalist system and the owning class have played a significant role in undermining democratic norms and worked against a more egalitarian, humane society. Until we are willing to address this, things will only get worse.
3
I have heard it said truth is subjective, but facts are scientific.
2
Epistemological murk, indeed! What a wonderful description of our current state of affairs. I do, however, reject the argument that Donald Trump's behavior is representative of a "postmodern" condition, in which the subject purposefully and thoughtfully uses their own version of the truth (read lies) to construct a narrative that supports some ideological purpose. An ideology requires a moral compass that our president conspicuously lacks. There is no true north; the needle points in only one direction, to himself, and his self-absorption and narcissism manifests itself in everything he says, and everything he does.
2
Missing from this otherwise thoughtful analysis is how "media" underwent a profound transformation from three network-based, similar narratives of "facts" to a proliferation of outlets from TV to Internet that will tell any tribe anything it wants to hear and believe is truth. Technology isn't interested in truth, which NYT has reported pretty well in the case of Facebook and Twitter. Truth demands more than a 5-second attention span. It demands relationships with people of all kinds, all ages, in one's community, seeing how they interact with their perceived truths and the testing that comes over TIME. Technology, in destroying our sense of human time and existence in geopolitical space, is the agent with with Trump can also destroy the experience and relevance of truth.
1
In a nation where everything is for sale--and I mean everything--truth has no meaning. We, as a nation, have been quite comfortable with this situation for decades. The only difference now is that we're becoming fully aware of the actual cost to us as a society for our collective acquiescence to the moral depravity at the heart of our capitalist ethos. Too late to complain now. (PS: I have no compassion whatsoever for my benighted fellow Americans who are only now proclaiming that they are shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that there has been gambling going on in the casino.)
2
The final conclusion to this piece is to posit that Trump used tribalism to appeal to voters. I think why it worked so well is that there were (and still are) powerful amplifiers of this message - Fox news, Breibart, etc. But also, more importantly, for the first time in an election, the power of Facebook and other social media like Twitter. These amplifiers were key enablers of stoking tribalism, blaring out the message and then reverberating it round and round. Additional funding by PAC's increased the impact tremendously. Communicating messages was so much more limited in the past - now it is easier to hear the cry of "Fire!" beyond the walls of the theatre, and to stir up that fear on which tribalism thrives.
3
What is missing from this conversation is the idea, put forth by the late Richard Rorty, that in a world where all "truths" are not discovered, but constructed, that the human quality that needs to be in place to give us some form of firm foundation to live by--is solidarity. And that is the danger of tribalism---without solidarity--a common commitment to be your brother's keeper--to reduce in Rorty's words---pain and humiliation---then the inability to establish "the truth," becomes dangerous. It also should be noted that Deweyan pragmatism, the ability to solve real world problems, found that looking out there for "the truth," was an obstacle for using truths down here to make our lives more liveable.
In sum, and in line with Mr. Edsall's last sentence, the philosopher Trump most represents is: The Joker, in Batman, embodied by Heath Ledger, about whom Batman's butler (MIchael Caine) said, "Some men just want to watch the world burn."
1
Donald Trump and Larry Nasser are both destructive human aberrations, albeit in different ways. They are not worth thought or discussion. In both cases, however, the failure that does require thought and discussion is in the institutions that enable them, or more precisely the denizens of those institutions. In Trump's case, Republican Representatives and Senators who initially found him repugnant and unqualified to be President have consistently and abjectly betrayed every moral ideal they had espoused in rallying abjectly and dishonestly to his defense. Like Michigan State and the Olympic Committee in Nasser's case, they are now more to blame for his continuing course of conduct than the sick individual they continue to empower.
4
Postmodern philosophy announced the demise of meta-narratives. Trump and his opponents both possess meta-narratives that are insidious ideologies. Trump’ and the political right’s narrative hearken to a kind of soft core fascism and authoritarianism, soft core for now.
But his opponents have a narrative, too, namely the tyranny of social engineering based delivered via a global technological complex. It is an ideology that takes no prisoners. We must all think alike or we are social outcasts or socially stoned.
Both approaches use the technique of mass movement ideology or mob rule as a model. Rules made ubiquitous by shamans and manipulators but controlled by the mob and its shallow understanding. Both will lead to the demise of democracy. In both knowledge is the major casualty.
As both a womanist and a postmodern scholar, I appreciate this essay.
Postmodernism does not say that there is no Truth. It says that no one person or perspective can know the truth entirely. All cannot be perceived all at once.
Postmodernism's critique of a meta-narrative, the big story that seeks to explain all things, is that it is the story that is told by people who hold institutional power, and they often use that power to choose the aspect of truth that will help them maintain their advantage.
Thus, truth claims are subject to interrogation as to perspective and who pays and who benefits.
Trump and his GOP enablers are simply liars--premodern, modern, and postmodern.
1
A sizable number of Republicans, mostly the so-called elites, reject the current President because of his lies and authoritarianism. They are Republicans in Policy Only, commonly derided as "elites" by rank and file Trump supporters. The policy Republicans share classic American values of honor, respect, service, modesty, hard work, thrift, self reliance and honesty, values inimical or now unimportant to the Trump Republicans. Policy Republicans are looking for a home.
Likewise, if the Democratic party moves leftward and into identity politics in response to Trump, there will be moderate Democrats looking for a home too.
If, in fact, tribalism is what politics has become and tribalism makes politics more extreme, then the likely outcome will be a new party of the center and a new tribe of American moderates from both left and right who define themselves as supporters of the fundamental ideas under which America was formed. Those moderates might then control the future. That would be a fine way out of this mess.
1
Many people try and evaluate Trump’s statements to figure out if he is lying, either knowingly or not or if there is some overall strategy to his statements as Mr Edsel tries to do here.
But really, he is not lying (at least not consciously). Public (and probably private) statements to him are just tools like a hammer or a screwdriver used to get whatever he wants NOW or to make himself feel better NOW.
I don’t think there is ANY strategy here, just the psychosis manifesting itself every day in the public square. And because he has no real policies or strategy or long term ideas of moving the society (his campaign “promises” are not sincerely held ideas, just a means to get elected) he is free to mine the here and now to feel good without the the messy consequences of compromising his principles. He has none to compromise.
In the future try fitting his statements (falsehoods or otherwise) into this template: yesterday NEVER happened, tomorrow WILL NEVER happen, there is only NOW. Not even today, just NOW.
Every statement serves now and no other time. And so without the constraints of time or the past, nothing can EVER be a lie because prior statements don’t exist. This is the face of a psychotic person.
And while all of this got him elected, it will not serve him well when Mr Muller comes calling with a cadre of trained interlocutors showing him emails, statements and audio recordings that contradict him there and then. I believe that session will end inside of an hour
2
All of this analysis about Trump is worthless unless it produces a means of blunting his influence. When our news, our contracts, our laws, and our constitution are no longer worth the paper that they're printed on, then neither will our meditations about how it happened.
2
The notion of postmodernism as it pertains to literature is all well and good, but let's please remember Samuel Johnson's counterargument to Bishop Berkeley in response to Berkeley's sophistic assertion that matter doesn't really exist and that all things in the universe are merely ideal. There are two versions of the story..in my favorite one, Johnson kicks the Bishop in the leg, exclaiming "Thus I refute you!".
Those two photographs of the crowd sizes on the Mall, comparing the Obama and the Trump inauguration attendances are the same kick in the leg to any and all of the sophistic reasoners who want to argue that truth is always relative. Sometimes "it is what it is" is what it is.
1
Excellent as usual. But tribalism in politics isn’t new, and even in the us has been worse— think civil war and then Jim Crow segregation. It can be overcome either by force or suasion. The value of suasion is that it can broaden the notion of tribe. The harm done by trump and republicans generally since Goldwater lies in the dog whistles that seek to shrink the notion of tribe. Why else do you think the white south has largely turned republican? And yet in bitter irony it’s the white gop that accuses the left of identity politics. And so many of you fall for it.
Postmodernists who think that all truth is socially constructed should be invited to drive their cars across a bridge made of socially constructed steel. Or maybe it's tin, or maybe it's paper? How can one know, if the hardness of things is merely what is mutually agreed?
Trump's conspiracy with a foreign enemy of the United States may not be as easy to prove as the hardness of a steel bridge, but let's start with dates, times, testimony and statements of fact.
2
I appreciate all the range of academic disciplines consulted here -- but why not solicit non-white academics? Every single person he personally reached out to and quoted was a white academic.....
1
Is there any difference between post-modernism and lying? I think not, and so yes- Trump’s alien relationship with the truth is very similar to post-modernist moral and truth relativism.
An amazing column. Amazing. All of this intellectual heavy lifting is wasted on this problem. donnie is a very simple person. He has no idea what's true and false. The "true/false" metric simply doesn't exist in his thinking. Every time he speaks it is an instinctive reach for the immediate cheer, or the immediate jab at his enemies.
All he sees in the world is his reflection.
1
Trump is neither, he is a born to money person who has been driven to succeed and be accepted. Everything he does reflects his needs and insecurity. Trump really is out of his depth and is only where he is because people needed someone new who spoke to their needs. The establishment political class seems to have forgotten about most Americans (certainly those who aren't big enough donors).
So yesterday Trump announces that he would testify before the Special Counsel under oath. He brags that he is looking forward to the prospect. He basks in the camera lights. Media types then run around for hours reporting with great solemnity this fact, the fact that Trump has said these things. This is reported as if it has meaning. But we know by now that such statements have no meaning. They are teasings for the media.
Trump is about to go party in Davos for a week to make up for missing his Mar-A-Lago party, so he tosses the media a bone on his way to Air Force One. Tomorrow all will be retracted or denied or challenged as misinterpretation. And the media types will be off again, reporting that.
We are all being played people, mocked for our quaint reliance on objective truth. Power is the only truth. And reasonable people in this country do not currently have it.
1
I imagine Trump as a boy growing up being constantly humiliated as he listened to teachers, parents, authority figures, classmates and friends saying things that he did not understand. His relationship with the truth was borne out of trying to compete in a world where he was over-matched in the extreme, yet expected, because of his social privilege, to assume his place.
Trump fabricates because he cannot figure out what people are talking about. He realized along the way that it doesn't matter whether he understands or not. He simply asserts what he thinks will fit a given social situation.
1
The sad part is that I tend to agree with the thesis of all 'truths' being relative, but this is not a blanket pass. There is in my mind such a thing as objective truth that can be observed, measured and replicated -- details about the tangible physical universe, for example.
But much of which we call 'truth' are not in this category -- they are factoids in the social matrix of rules, expectations and experience that characterize how we interact with our fellow creatures. Two people of wildly different economic or cultural status and upbringing could, IMHO, observe the same phenomena and draw wildly different conclusions. The news demonstrates this daily -- read this publication and a different one, Fox for example, and try to determine if they were even talking about the same event, on the same planet.
Shared high level goals and values are just a framework to ensure that when working together (are you listening, Congress?) it is possible to produce results -- hopefully to benefit all. Our individual realities may differ on this in specifics, but the common framework ensures that things can move forward.
As for POTUS, from my (thankfully) detached perspective it is hard to see any common strategic thread in the last year, to say nothing of the campaign that preceded it. More like a Bin Laden dream on steroids -- breaking the windows of government. His apologists may claim brilliance but all I have seen are random, shameful lies.
1
This article helped me put my revulsion of Trump in a more rational context that makes it possible for me to understand my feelings about the president and about how to talk to others about him. I loved Philip Roth's succinct personality summary of Trump as "the evil sum of his deficiencies" (in the interview published last week in the Times) but while that wonderfully phrased conclusion about the president confirms my belief, it doesn't compute for my neighbors who remain steadfast Trump supporters. Like so many others I am repulsed by him and what he is doing to our country. But that tells more about me than about him. This piece helps define how, and why, he is like he is. If we can't explain this how and why, just shouting out to the universe remains therapeutic but futile.
I want to point out a further irony lurking within this farce: Ayn Rand's philosophy. It's interesting to read John Caputo's accurate claim that “the criticism of postmodern theory as ‘anything goes relativism’ is a bum rap,” and compare to Rand's depiction of the Left in Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead - essentially sacred texts to the new, radical Right. In those works, she adamantly creates the very straw-man argument that Caputo summarizes. She asks her readers why they should trust a Left that is devoid of moral absolutes, even as she creates a moral absolute that only serves her own self-serving ends. We now have a party so beholden to her revisionism, that they too see a Democratic party concerned with the improvement of the human lot as a bunch amoral heathens, while simultaneously believing that morality is predicated on greed and self-interest.
Alas, Trump. He's the epitome of the Randian hero: a self-made (but not really), intellectual (but without knowledge), braggadocio only interested in furthering their own concept of the good without any regard for others.
1
What Trump has proven conclusively is that JS Mill was wrong when he argued that free speech and open debate would allow greater exposure of falsehoods, and bring truth to light. Since the advent of the internet, there has been a popularity explosion of nonsensical and patently false beliefs, that used to be held only by small segments of the population. Now they are massively publicized. Instead of exposing falsehoods, mass exposure has lead to infinitely greater popularity. Since everyone has access to information, and peer review is no longer important, and all epistemic authority has been devalued, all opinions are equal no matter the facts. Additionally, research has clearly shown that people cherry pick information, only seeking information that justifies previously held beliefs. Tribes grow. There is little communication between tribes. There is no trust that contradictory information may actually be correct. Only confirmatory information is valued. Anything infirmatory is seen as useless, false, and comes from inherently untrustable sources. We have entered an age where the most important tenant of science, that hypotheses need to be testable, and most importantly falsifiable, is utterly unimportant.
Trump is a frequent and fluent liar simply because he is unencumbered by any idea that truth is a moral goal . He speaks to the perceptions of his devotees instead and often seeks to give them a narrative that opposes the more accurate ones found in the media. He is the tribal hero to his devotees and lies are the best way to maintain the cohesiveness of the tribe. He'll assert for example that murder rates are at an all-time high when they are the opposite because it says to his devotees "you see the chaos and want it stopped and I am the one to stop it. He is currently nursing a series of protective lies in case he is impeached, e.g that he is the victim of an FBI conspiracy, that Hillary Clinton is the one who made up all this Russia stuff, etc. Watch for the feelings of his devotees to predict the next set of lies
4
There should be no respect and no publicity for a conscienceless brat who gives humanity a bad reputation, and who has been taught to take advantage of other people and brag about the result.
He's on the take: a con man who always knows where the cameras are, and how to encourage our basest impulses.
I'm afraid the tragedy of earth's apex predator is approaching it's nadir. The sun of humanity has been eclipsed by greed and victim hunting and blaming.
20
ps. The truth matters. Along with actively hurting people and claiming it benefits us as a society (it doesn't), other false ideas are doing untold damage, present and future.
Most of them are about poisoning our finite planet and making it unhabitable for most humans in a short time - possibly as short as a generation. We've seen the result of that this year in toxic waste and overexploitation.
Meanwhile, income inequality has reached historic heights.
Just remember, long runs at tax cuts and perks for the wealthy and deregulation resulted in some really nasty surprises in 1987 (Reagan) and 2007 (Bush), and don't forget 1929.
We won't have a hardworking intelligent guy like Obama to rescue us this time, when the casino on Wall Street (and elsewhere) has removed all real value from the economy.
17
That "truthful hyperbole" thing? That's not Trump, it's his ghostwriter, who regrets helping the faker in chief claim he's not lying:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-...
"When Schwartz began writing “The Art of the Deal,” he realized that he needed to put an acceptable face on Trump’s loose relationship with the truth. So he concocted an artful euphemism. Writing in Trump’s voice, he explained to the reader, “I play to people’s fantasies. . . . People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration—and it’s a very effective form of promotion.” Schwartz now disavows the passage. “Deceit,” he told me, is never “innocent.” He added, “ ‘Truthful hyperbole’ is a contradiction in terms. It’s a way of saying, ‘It’s a lie, but who cares?’ ” Trump, he said, loved the phrase.
"In his journal, Schwartz describes the process of trying to make Trump’s voice palatable in the book. It was kind of “a trick,” he writes, to mimic Trump’s blunt, staccato, no-apologies delivery while making him seem almost boyishly appealing. One strategy was to make it appear that Trump was just having fun at the office. “I try not to take any of what’s happened too seriously,” Trump says in the book. “The real excitement is playing the game.”"
7
This discussion ignores a central problem in the idea of truth, and that is the difference between simple isolated systems and complex systems.
While we may have measured the average temperature of the earth's atmosphere last year more or less accurately, we cannot calculate what that number will be next year, even with more and more data. Yes, mathematics has shown that as systems get more and more complex their changes can finally only be expressed as probabilities, not simple numbers. No, it is not just a matter of having more data and bigger computers, some things, even in the physical world, cannot be predicted.
The nature of truth is different for an engineering problem where all variables are known than it is for a biological, economic or political system where the infinite variables can never be known, and the "butterfly effect" means that a minute localized change in a complex system can have large effects elsewhere.
This conflating of the truths of basic science with an attempt to precisely predict the future of complex systems is what opens the door to the refutation of all objective truth.
4
While complex systems can be hard to determine exactly, say the path of an electron. We know enough about electrons that your lights come on when you flip the switch. We certainly know enough to measure the energy in a complex system increasing. We may not be able to predict the weather accurately for a month ahead, but you can be sure if the weather forecast is 6-8 inches, you are better to stay home.
The forecast for the planet, is HOT HOT HOT..
1
I guess my point is not understood. Hot, hot, hot... in 2017 the average global temperature was lower than in 2016, so what does that prove? Nothing. I agree that the planet is warming, but if you think you can prove it by predicting the future of complex systems then 2017 just proved you wrong.
It is just this refusal to understand the unpredictable nature of complex systems that is my point. Did 2017 "prove" that scientists are wrong about global warming? No. Did it prove that you cannot predict the average temperature of the earth's atmosphere next year? And yet you can predict the number of BTU's of heat generated by burning 100 gallons of #1 fuel oil pretty precisely.
As long as reasonable people refuse to understand this distinction they will be playing into the hands of those who refute simple scientific truths. Political science is not science. Economic is not science.
The butterfly effect and the "fat tail" of the distribution curve explain these ideas.
It is just this refusal to understand the unpredictable nature of complex systems that is my point. Did 2017 "prove" that scientists are wrong about global warming? No. Did it prove that you cannot predict the average temperature of the earth's atmosphere next year? And yet you can predict the number of BTU's of heat generated by burning 100 gallons of #1 fuel oil pretty precisely.
As long as reasonable people refuse to understand this distinction they will be playing into the hands of those who refute simple scientific truths. Political science is not science. Economic is not science.
The butterfly effect and the "fat tail" of the distribution curve explain these ideas.
1
"The nature of truth is different for an engineering problem where all variables are known ..."
Evidently you are not an engineer, because engineers do not always know "all" the "variables". And when they do, they specify the precision with which they are known. Further, engineers cannot predict how systems will be used in the future.
Here are some examples:
1. The Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapsed in certain wind conditions.
2. The Millennium Bridge swayed dangerously with certain pedestrian loads.
3. The Space Shuttle Challenger failed at certain temperatures.
4. The Titanic sank after colliding with an iceberg.
Instead of speculating about "engineering problem[s]", I suggest that you read:
"To engineer is human : the role of failure in successful design" by Henry Petroski.
Evidently you are not an engineer, because engineers do not always know "all" the "variables". And when they do, they specify the precision with which they are known. Further, engineers cannot predict how systems will be used in the future.
Here are some examples:
1. The Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapsed in certain wind conditions.
2. The Millennium Bridge swayed dangerously with certain pedestrian loads.
3. The Space Shuttle Challenger failed at certain temperatures.
4. The Titanic sank after colliding with an iceberg.
Instead of speculating about "engineering problem[s]", I suggest that you read:
"To engineer is human : the role of failure in successful design" by Henry Petroski.
1
Thank you for writing this. I've been trying to understand postmodern thought for quite a while (I'm a closet realist and quite like truth!) and this is very helpful. I think I now "get" the idea of challenging the "truth" that is made by those in power (such as the Republican claims for the recent tax bill) in order to clear the way for a much wider investigation of truth (such as making time to debate such a bill and listen to the huge diversity of opinions arising).
Good to know that analysis of the dog-vomit does not give evidence of postmodernism.
But I recall that when Einstein's theory of relativity came out a century ago, this led to the popular thought that "everything is relative", including morality, which was not at all warranted by the theory itself. Perhaps post-modernists need to be more active in educating the public about the implications, and non-implications, of postmodernism so that the ordinary person does not come to think that there is no such thing as truth.
14
Prof. Pinker's description of tribalism having primacy in political organization is not unique to current times or leaders. I think one can legitimately replace tribalism with nationalism, fealty to king, or religious fervor with the same result upon the use of facts: immensely malleable in the service of tribal self-interest. Donald Kagan's "On the Origins of War" makes the terrible point that too often, it is not true national interest that leads to war but the need to maintain a sense of national honour.
Trump's description of a shattered America in 2016 was received as a picture that needed to change. It was, instead, his vision of what change would bring about. The fault, it will be seen, will be made to lie at the feet of those who oppose him for any reason, true, false, postmodern or deconstructed.
5
"Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar?"
Liar and nihilist.
91
Professor Edsall concludes: " Trump is determined to leave the destruction of democratic procedure as his legacy." I believe this statement attributes too much planning and forethought to the president. He lives only in the immediate present, and therefore his actions reflect a determination to serve his daily needs and passions. Trump scorns democratic procedures because they interfere with his childlike obsession with complete personal autonomy.
In like manner, his allergy to truth arises from an instinctual recognition that acceptance of an objective realm outside his control would curtail his freedom of action. A more interesting line of inquiry, in my judgment, would focus on the reaction of his listeners. I find quite compelling Steven Pinker's hypothesis that a form of tribalism helps explain Trump supporters' willingness to suspend disbelief when the president speaks.
Although the temptation to behave in this way surely challenges all of us, the failure to resist poses a major threat to any democratic community. No free society can endure if its members cannot discuss issues through a common frame of reference. We can legitimately debate the proper response to climate change, but only if Americans accept the overwhelming scientific evidence of its reality.
Trump represents a symptom of a major problem our society faces. The cause of the problem lies in our loss of faith in institutions and leaders whom we rely on to tell us the truth about the world.
91
"Professor Edsall concludes: " Trump is determined to leave the destruction of democratic procedure as his legacy." I believe this statement attributes too much planning and forethought to the president."
Whereas I agree with you James, that Trump probably has no conscious plan or forethought, still his destruction of the 'democratic procedure' is really happening before our eyes. The great American experiment started in 1776 is beginning to crumble and we appear to be powerless to stop it.
Whereas I agree with you James, that Trump probably has no conscious plan or forethought, still his destruction of the 'democratic procedure' is really happening before our eyes. The great American experiment started in 1776 is beginning to crumble and we appear to be powerless to stop it.
1
"Scholars of contemporary philosophy argue that postmodernism does not dispute the existence of truth, per se, but rather seeks to interrogate the sources and interests of those making assertions of truth. As Casey Williams wrote in The Stone in The Times last April:
Call it what you want: relativism, constructivism, deconstruction, postmodernism, critique. The idea is the same: Truth is not found, but made, and making truth means exercising power."
This just a fancy way for philosophers to say that a person in power has convinced enough people that his lies are truth (or at least acceptable) to maintain power.
I hardly think Donald Trump would even understand this article, assuming he'd take the time to read it. But "postmodernism" is a strange term. As one of your sources states, if it means truth is relative and what the people believe it is, it's merely a return to the Middle Ages, dominated by quackery and superstition.
Multiple versions of "truth" represent a real danger for any society, a form of Putinism here easily makes the people go mad.
It's no accident that Kafka wrote despairing novels, allegories for authoritarianism, whereby some innocent becomes enmeshed in situations so incomprehensible that the innocent begins to doubt his own sanity.
Whatever Trump is doing, it's the oldest trick in the book: convincing people to act against their own self-interest.
171
Thanks, as always, for your astute comments. A modern therapeutic tic I find worrisome is when we hear people say they want to speak "my truth" as if they are entitled to their own version of reality. It seems to be a red flag of an incapacity to cogitate and reason and react to everything emotionally and that never ends well.
3
Trump is a liar who pays no cost for lying. Anything he says now should be ignored and surely never acted on. The dreamer situation is the best example of late. Unless Congress , on its own, passes a dreamer bill which Trump remembers to sign, it’s just a mirage.
69
We find ourselves aligned with Prado and his observations about His Unhinged Unraveling Unfitness being emblematic of a post-truth world, building on the late night meme of 'truthiness' that preceded djt's election.
But, this is something that could be seen coming from GOP'ers and their tribalism in the Dubya years, when these very pages reported a conversation with a senior Bush aide:
"The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/faith-certainty-and-the-presi...
One of the political tribes in America is authoritarian, has tossing aside qualms about djt in order to prosecute their agenda - by any means necessary.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." - David Frum
245
thanks for this link, I had forgotten this piece. It seems to fit Trump except that his faith is not centered around a religious belief but his own misshapen ego.
4
G.R. - This article has always stuck with us, since it lays out the corrupting of objective fact being replaced with 'fearless leader-ism' reality. Equally chilling is the next paragraph in the same article, which we didn't include in this excerpt since it took us over the 1500 character limit:
"Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: "Look, I want your vote. I'm not going to debate it with you." When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, "Look, I'm not going to debate it with you."
-Ron Suskind, nytimes.com, 10/17/2004
From this standpoint, it becomes even more apparent that the 60+ House votes to repeal Obamacare were just GOP'er party training exercises administering litmus tests to make sure everyone present was drinking enough propaganda kool-aid.
"Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: "Look, I want your vote. I'm not going to debate it with you." When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, "Look, I'm not going to debate it with you."
-Ron Suskind, nytimes.com, 10/17/2004
From this standpoint, it becomes even more apparent that the 60+ House votes to repeal Obamacare were just GOP'er party training exercises administering litmus tests to make sure everyone present was drinking enough propaganda kool-aid.
4
R. Law, with David Frum, has returned us to the real issue.
A Liar who'd love to think of himself as a Stealth Postmodernist (if he had a notion what that meant), but he's just a very, very non self-aware liar.
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Yes. Let’s not give an ignorant bully, habitual liar and conman any undeserved credit for having an iota of knowledge about “postmodernism.”
He’s in it soleu for the money— any form of government be damned.
He’s in it soleu for the money— any form of government be damned.
1
Trump's a pathological liar. I studied postmodern theory and it shouldn't be used as a defense for sociopathy or treason.
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But Trump is a reflecting of the population that sustains him. That means that something is emergent in America that goes beyond the mentality of a single man. I don't think folks get it: Trump is not a solitary phenomenon. His power is in the extent to which he reflects a larger group of supporters. These are the people we need to understand.
6
No, you have him wrong, He is a traditionalist keeping alive the spirit and creativity of the Snake Oil salesman of yore. It goes over big with yokels today just as it did back then.
1
No question
Not even close
Just a liar
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The simple true.
1
If the man is so intellctually deficient as these eminences assert, how then is he the responsible party in so monumental and machiavellian a transformation of a 229-year-old republic? Where be the predicates, oh ivory tower sages of the ages? Either the man is an uncouth buffoon who through bluster and democratic sclerosis managed a razor-thin win...or he is an evil genius timing his arrival perfectly and staying three steps ahead of his pathetic opponents at every turn. So which is it? Try as you and the professors might, if you cannot properly explain it, you sure as heck won't "get it". But we do.
35
Sorry; but you just do not get the real gist of the article. Again, the article, as I see it is not explaining Trump, the man, but Trump the symbol. He reflects a trend in the American psyche and this is what lines mostly on the surface of the article but also between its lines.
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What do "we get" Colleen? What?
7
Colleen, I see only your name as the author of this comment, but you end it with "But we do." Pray, can you let us know who the other components of "WE" are?
9
The relationship between President Trump and postmodernist philosophy?
The central insight of postmodernist philosophy is probably that the search for truth must never be confused with the "truths" developed by political and economic power to control human beings. Which is to say we probably have this formula: The more a society feels humans need to be regulated and controlled the more the search for truth suffers and instead we have "truths" shoveled to the masses, and vice-versa, the less a society feels the need to control people, the more it has faith in people's powers and abilities, the more an open road to search for truth appears.
Hostility to postmodern philosophy in America has been extremely telling. First, it was associated with the left wing and despised by the right, which always in America apparently has felt the need for control along military, religious, business lines, but now it is even looked down upon by the left wing, and the left wing no less assertively than the right calls for "truth". President Trump appears to me an anomaly, totally confused, just as likely to lie as state an uncomfortable truth.
As for the future of America, no doubt vastly increasing and diverse population works against search for truth, which depends on great individuals, and rather for "truth" whether established by right or left wings (see Russia, China, other examples). Which is to say we are headed into ages of vast regulation and control of human beings.
7
"Truth" in the physical sciences is different. It has rules by which it is defined, and guardrails like peer review to enforce those rules. The social sciences, so-called, lie somewhere in-between.
This distinction between scientific and social truth needed to be made. But, as so often happens with Edsall, he gets bogged down with the trees, and loses sight of the forest.
I salute him for taking on these difficult subjects, and for his always careful research, but I do wish he could find a way to peer-review himself.