Ban all Conversion Therapy as Inhumane.
8
While conversion therapy is a real problem and states do need to ban it for minors, this particular story by Sam Brinton, in my opinion, is full of holes and, may be fake, at least in part. He has been telling multiple versions of this story since 2010. Sometimes the perpetrator is a therapist, sometimes it is a "clinic." Bizarrely, he has never identified anyone involved nor has he filed any complaint. Nor has anyone, in all the years since this clinic or therapist has been in operation ever come forward with a similar story. In some versions, he endured a "year of hell" and in others, a month. Aversion and shock therapy haven't been used in this area since the 1970s and were not in use in the early 2000s. Brinton's parents somehow managed to the only clinic in the US to do so. Further, Brinton claims that part of the therapy involved telling him a blatant lie (that all gay people on Earth were dead and that he was the only one alive) - something which has never been part of conversion therapy (or any kind of therapy) and which would have fallen apart if Brinton had seen even 1 reference to another gay person in the news or on TV or in school. It's patently absurd. These absurdities and inconsistencies - and there are others - should raise red flags and should prompt the NY Times to due diligence before publishing his story as an op-ed. It's possible the story may be true, but it needs to be checked carefully before it is proffered on a platform like this.
28
I am mystified why Sam Brinton, as the bold activist he has become, has not reported to mental health authorities in FL the licensed therapist who performed on him the physical torture that accompanied the talk therapy he never wanted to undergo in the first place. Or why not expose the name of who this person is? Even without a legal ban on GCT in FL, if everything Sam says about the physical torture he underwent is true, sounds like it would be solid grounds for revoking the license of the therapist who did it to him.
10
This is powerful. Thank you Sam Brinton for sharing your testimony. I spent my teens and twenties on a crusade to "heal my sexual brokenness" through every method imaginable, including "conversion therapy." No one forced me; I did this on my own, secretly immersing myself in "ex-gay" psycho-theology. No one knew except my pastors and Promise Keeper Bible study brothers. (And my Jewish psychoanalyst, my Christian "men's mentor", Focus on the Family endorsed New Life Clinic, and Joe Dallas, former president of Exodus Int.) As a kid growing up under the blinding Friday Night Lights of Texas in the 80s, I knew one thing for certain: I would kill myself before I ever "came out" as gay. I'm still breathing and proudly join Sam in helping put an end to this quackery. Bryan Christopher, author, #HidingfromMyself
4
If someone tied my kid up and forced him to watch porn, I'd have him arrested.
19
What kind of country tortures children?
4
I would hope any medical professionals using anything more than talk therapy as Gay Convsion therapy will have their license revoked.
2
All countries have fringe groups who believe delusions, things not connected to observable reality, reason, evidence, and science in any way. Any theocracy, any totalitarian society where truth is forbidden and the Dear Leader must be worshipped, bases its system on delusions. Now our country has handed over our government to the lunatic fringe.
Frontline's show about North Korea had every citizen interviewed hating the US and worshipping their Dear Leader. They all believed outrageous lies about the US. Watching the pathetic descent into delusion and totalitarian propaganda by the Republicans and the far right gives me the same feeling.
When delusions like gay conversion and "secret deep state societies" and Hilary's sex slaves at a pizza shop and all the other malicious fantasies and conspiracy theories are viewed as anything but delusions of inferior minds or lies told for nasty political agendas, and the POTUS thinks tabloid stories are real, we become a joke.
The "secret society" text was a JOKE! Everyone I knew as a kid laughed at the absurd stories in National Enquirer. Now we have morons in the millions believing such drivel. Paranoid fantasies have always been big in the US. Now the paranoid angry dolts run the show. If we don't find a way to restore ability to discern reality from delusion, we are done for.
8
I was tortured, beaten, made a target of-even by my own brother as my arents ignored me. I was kicked out of 8th grade and eventually made a near homeless and uneducated loser, both by my parents and private school in NYC. My abomination was not sexual, I wasn't gay or a similar reason. I was abused and targeted because I wanted to have slightly longer hair, a bit over my ears. Much less then the Beatles or the Rolling Stones but, because it was not popular with most US or NYC males-football players and similar straight-arrow types, and because the authrority of the school claimed my wishes somehow challenged the power of the school to control and protect and order the children of a few board members and all the rest of the silent majority.
No one ever took me seriously and, once the "dress code"ban was lifted, I was forgotten . I have never received any apology nor an offer to make me whole.
Why is it that (it appears) only females and gays get special "treatment" that looks back often 50 years, to offenses committed against them, but, regular guys who were made to suffer-to run laps, to do innumerable push ups or run miles and do painful physical exercises, thren expelled anyway, often far more serious punishments, are ignored and told to "suck it up", even by the same women who cannot imagine anyone could suffer their night terrors. Identity group demands only make political divisions worse.
No one ever took me seriously and, once the "dress code"ban was lifted, I was forgotten . I have never received any apology nor an offer to make me whole.
Why is it that (it appears) only females and gays get special "treatment" that looks back often 50 years, to offenses committed against them, but, regular guys who were made to suffer-to run laps, to do innumerable push ups or run miles and do painful physical exercises, thren expelled anyway, often far more serious punishments, are ignored and told to "suck it up", even by the same women who cannot imagine anyone could suffer their night terrors. Identity group demands only make political divisions worse.
2
My parents sent me to behavioral conversion at age 5 in 1970, Devils Lake ND. Back then it was a seemingly innocuous BF Skinner behavioral therapy for kids. The damage was incalculable for someone so young. The earlier you mutant a gene the more damage done. I was a happy, active kind-- but also a but of a sissy. I liked skating but not playing hockey. I like barbie not GI Joe. So PANIC!! mY therapy consisted of this: any day i didn't do someting "girlie I would be rewarded with candy and a bunny drawing(Stickers of those days) After a month when I had accrued so much I would get a bigger candy reward with my sheet of cartoon drawings. For any kid who has an avg IQ can easily figure this out. That "therapy" was damaging twofold: It turned me from a happy active sociable kid to a fat lonely sedentary basket case taught to reward himself with food every time he denied anything that came naturally to him. Two-- the very act of the therapy let me know my parents thought I was an embarrassment who's very nature needed to suppressed, hidden and/or change(by me) Funny thing-- when i hit puberty I was INCREDULOUS that I EVER thought a barbie doll was interesting. Baseball became fascinating. My parents damaged me trying to "cure" a phase. Too damn late. Parents who are thinking of "conversion" do your kid a favor and put him up for adoption to someone who loves kids.
28
It is those who promote, not to mention practice, so-called "conversion therapy" who are the actual perverts — as well as sadists. And they have blood on their hands.
Shakespeare perfectly described the overwhelming majority of those who rail against the "ho-mo-sexual agenda" centuries ago: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" (Hamlet: Act III, Scene II).
Shakespeare perfectly described the overwhelming majority of those who rail against the "ho-mo-sexual agenda" centuries ago: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" (Hamlet: Act III, Scene II).
5
Barbaric practice.
What fools refuse the reality of people’s differences based on ideas with no evidence?
What fools refuse the reality of people’s differences based on ideas with no evidence?
5
Thank you mom and dad for accepting me as I am. No talking, crying, therapy, torture, hiding, would have change that. You got that even in your confusion. I'm so sorry for anyone whose own family betrayed them with such hurtful nonsense. Your shame is not my shame is all that needs to be said to these parents or "therapists." No one, and I mean no one, in their heart of hearts, or right mind, believes these lunatic practices work. No one!
6
So called, "conversion therapy" is child abuse pure and simple, why it isn't prosecuted as such is just beyond me.
6
Some of the therapy techniques the author describes sound like they were taken from "A Clockwork Orange."
8
To think long ago people were burned at the stake for being left handed.I would like to think we have progressed since then, but sometimes I wonder.
Thank you organized religion for maing all of this possible.
Thank you organized religion for maing all of this possible.
9
Anyone for “conversion therapy” for Evangelicals, Christians, Jews, Muslims, or believers in religion in general? Didn’t think so.
5
"I Was Tortured in Gay Conversion Therapy. "
And yet we still see scurrilous gay conversion advocates like Michele Bachmann on TV. We must remember that the Moral Majority is neither.
And yet we still see scurrilous gay conversion advocates like Michele Bachmann on TV. We must remember that the Moral Majority is neither.
8
'Ban', 'Legislate', and by all means 'Sue, Sue. Sue'.... This is what America has become.... Why ? Simply because the Present is all wise, and the Past epitomizes ignorance.... or 'We' know best for all, 'they' know nothing....
So, so sick of all this self-righteous blather.
Rather, people should be empowered to say NO... should be educated to other options, other realities. But we cannot and should not dictate to parents and hold the innocent liable for practices attempted in good faith.
So you suffered some.... welcome to the world, my friend. Suffering is a form of growth and a form of learning... When you punish differences you punish diversity... don't you get it ??
So, so sick of all this self-righteous blather.
Rather, people should be empowered to say NO... should be educated to other options, other realities. But we cannot and should not dictate to parents and hold the innocent liable for practices attempted in good faith.
So you suffered some.... welcome to the world, my friend. Suffering is a form of growth and a form of learning... When you punish differences you punish diversity... don't you get it ??
3
Sam,
Forgive your Parents for they know no better.A Parent job is to nurture and love their children no matter what their sexual orientation is, or how different they may be mentally or physically. They did not ask to be born & it’s our job to make life tolerable, with support & love. It was your Parents that sinned, not you, you are what your born, the human being is complex & no two people look & function alike.Hold your head high & make the most of your life.There is nothing wrong with you that love & compassion cannot fix.
1
In actuality, LGBT persons do the world a big favor, they are less likely to procreate, thus reducing the serious overpopulation problem. I wonder sometimes if they are not the result of Nature taking steps to protect any one species from domination over all others. What for instance would the world be like if the dominant species were a predatory animal instead?
3
If this so called "conversion therapy" of inflicting emotional and physical pain is used on a person without their consent then it is actually torture. No doubt about it. If it is used on a minor without their consent then it is actionable when the minor is able to bring a lawsuit on their own behalf. No medical personnel can defend themself from such a lawsuit because this "conversion therapy" is not a clinically proven method of medical treatment for an illness. Homosexual orientation is not an illness.
4
The best convention therapy is willpower and a strong moral compass - two qualities that lack in today's over permissive culture.
Young people often get confused about their sexual preference and channel their desires at the opposite side of the spectrum of a hetero partner or situation that frustrates them. I was unhappily married to a man and started to have fantasies about being with a woman. I never acted on them and instead divorced. The same-sex attraction vanished and never reappeared after my divorce. That was 25 years ago. I don't watch porn, don't take drugs, and I am trying to lead the most moral and authentic life.
So while I think that attaching electrodes for convention therapy is crazy, let's not jump to the other extreme and make gay propaganda for youngsters, make it cool and urge them to embrace homosexuality at the first whim, at an age when attractions are fluid.
Young people often get confused about their sexual preference and channel their desires at the opposite side of the spectrum of a hetero partner or situation that frustrates them. I was unhappily married to a man and started to have fantasies about being with a woman. I never acted on them and instead divorced. The same-sex attraction vanished and never reappeared after my divorce. That was 25 years ago. I don't watch porn, don't take drugs, and I am trying to lead the most moral and authentic life.
So while I think that attaching electrodes for convention therapy is crazy, let's not jump to the other extreme and make gay propaganda for youngsters, make it cool and urge them to embrace homosexuality at the first whim, at an age when attractions are fluid.
2
Big hug for courageous Sam Brinton.
Thank you.
Thank you.
1
If conversion therapy works why does it only work in one direction? Shouldn't it also be able to convert straight people into homosexuals? Why not end the argument once and for all by proving it that way? One can easily re-convert back into a heterosexual again, assuming it works so effectively. (The same can be said for the tired old "Pray the gay away" argument.)
4
Can we, once and for all, tear off the veneer of acceptability of this cruel and potentially psychologically and spiritually deforming process? Calling it "therapy" is nauseating? Promising "conversion" is duplicitous at best.
It is legally sanctioned (in 40+ states, at least) ABUSE. If the victim (indeed, these "patients" are victims) is less that 18, it's child abuse. Regardless of the victim's age, it's abuse on so many levels- psychological, spiritual, physical, and yes, sexual.
It's high time to remove this cancer from society. Make it illegal, at the very least for young people. Educate, educate, educate people how to become parents and to repeat their children as individuals, not made in their image or what they want their kids to be when what that is is intolerant clones of themselves.
It is legally sanctioned (in 40+ states, at least) ABUSE. If the victim (indeed, these "patients" are victims) is less that 18, it's child abuse. Regardless of the victim's age, it's abuse on so many levels- psychological, spiritual, physical, and yes, sexual.
It's high time to remove this cancer from society. Make it illegal, at the very least for young people. Educate, educate, educate people how to become parents and to repeat their children as individuals, not made in their image or what they want their kids to be when what that is is intolerant clones of themselves.
2
"Everyone should know that you can’t change what you never chose."
Isn't a great deal of therapy, not just conversion, based on changing what one did not choose? While I support legislation banning this practice for minors, any adult who wishes to undergo it should have the legal right.
Isn't a great deal of therapy, not just conversion, based on changing what one did not choose? While I support legislation banning this practice for minors, any adult who wishes to undergo it should have the legal right.
1
Mike Pence, I am calling you out to step up and acknowledge that torturing people for being LGBTQ, especially children who have no way to defend themselves from severrely misguided parents and clergy, should be a crime punishable by not less than five years in prison. Make it a federal offense if some states won't abide.
2
My heart breaks---BREAKS---for all the suffering this "therapy" has inflicted on gays. I had no idea it was still legal in the majority of states. It should be outlawed immediately. It's barbaric and surely unethical.
3
I am so sorry that you had to endure this painful experience, no one should ever have to go through that. Unfortunately (well-meaning ?) translated right-wing "evangelical families wrongly think that they are helping. When in reality they are causing undue pain, hardship, and pure sadistic torture. In the world of "fake news" created by Trump, the message that these families have bought into is the biggest fake news of all.
2
These bills are dangerous to children and families. The NYTs does a disservice to its readers by publishing this OP-ED.
No one would condone the treatment that Sam endured.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking to a counselor about why one feels a certain way. These bills prevent that. No counselor tries to talk teens out of a sexual identity. Really? In the dark ages?
What is of concern to many is the popularity of gender identity proclamations in teens. This is becoming increasingly common with teen girls.
Most of these girls are hooked on social media. To affirm one of these new identities without question is dangerous. Social affirmation leads to dangerous medical treatments--leading to sterility and permanent body and voice changes.
Children and teens deserve compassionate counseling. No family should be forced to lose a child to a politicized identity movement.
One does not treat a mental health problem and teenage angst with cross-sex hormones and surgery.
3
In reading over the comments here I notice that many people are calling for conversion therapy to be banned for adults not just children, and for talk therapy with children to be limited to what sounds like a kind of surface cheerleading.
For some people sexuality is a firmly known entity from childhood. Great for those people. Many people are more flexible, though, and the issues can be more confused. Desire and lust, even when fully known, does not always determine the behaviour that people wish to pursue, either.
For some people the wish to obey the rules of their religion, or the desire to have biological children within a pair bond, is enough to cause them to want to set aside their natural desires.
For others counselling them not to act on same sex desires could deprive them of all romantic relationships — which in our society could effectively deny them touch, companionship and intimacy. So I understand the care that must be taken in counselling patients in their sexuality — I don’t wish to see anyone sentenced to a lonely, repressed life.
Nevertheless many of the commenters here seem to feel that a young person always firmly knows in their heart the objects of their lust, and, furthermore, is always confident in taking on a LGBT identity. I think the truth is sometimes more subtle.
For some people sexuality is a firmly known entity from childhood. Great for those people. Many people are more flexible, though, and the issues can be more confused. Desire and lust, even when fully known, does not always determine the behaviour that people wish to pursue, either.
For some people the wish to obey the rules of their religion, or the desire to have biological children within a pair bond, is enough to cause them to want to set aside their natural desires.
For others counselling them not to act on same sex desires could deprive them of all romantic relationships — which in our society could effectively deny them touch, companionship and intimacy. So I understand the care that must be taken in counselling patients in their sexuality — I don’t wish to see anyone sentenced to a lonely, repressed life.
Nevertheless many of the commenters here seem to feel that a young person always firmly knows in their heart the objects of their lust, and, furthermore, is always confident in taking on a LGBT identity. I think the truth is sometimes more subtle.
2
Sadly, the former Congresswoman from endorsed "gay conversion"
"Jul 15, 2011 - The therapists at Bachmann & Associates aren't very good at turning gay people straight. I don't just mean that the Lake Elmo, Minn., based Christian therapy clinic, founded by Rep. Michele Bachmann's husband, professional counselor Marcus Bachmann, don't know how to turn gays straight.
"Jul 15, 2011 - The therapists at Bachmann & Associates aren't very good at turning gay people straight. I don't just mean that the Lake Elmo, Minn., based Christian therapy clinic, founded by Rep. Michele Bachmann's husband, professional counselor Marcus Bachmann, don't know how to turn gays straight.
1
The people who conduct gay conversion therapy--do they believe such practices are helping gay people? Helping the world? Or is the main intent of these "therapists" to punish?
It is so hard for me to get inside the minds of the perpetrators. I don't understand how one can devote a career to physically hurting people. One must be so blinded by previously held beliefs.
While I am appalled by the individuals who actually hold conversion therapy sessions, I am even more appalled that conversion therapy is still legal in 41 states. I was not aware of this fact, and I am concerned this issue is continually being pushed under the rug.
It is so hard for me to get inside the minds of the perpetrators. I don't understand how one can devote a career to physically hurting people. One must be so blinded by previously held beliefs.
While I am appalled by the individuals who actually hold conversion therapy sessions, I am even more appalled that conversion therapy is still legal in 41 states. I was not aware of this fact, and I am concerned this issue is continually being pushed under the rug.
It seems there will always be those who, magnanimously of course, will defend the rights of other people to be conned. Right now we seem to have a number of con artists in the Government who are defending the rights of their fellow cons to make marks of people by dint of removing regulations and protections.
They believe they don't even need a new amendment: The right to con others out of money, home, and health shall not be abridged.
They believe they don't even need a new amendment: The right to con others out of money, home, and health shall not be abridged.
Does anyone believe in "pedophile conversion therapy"? What fundamentally excites a person cannot be changed. That we all believe that is evidenced by long-term restrictions placed on child abusers. We cannot allow adults to abuse children regardless of desire. But what on earth is eating at people who want to "convert" gay adults?
2
Thank you for sharing your traumatic experience. If it's any consolation, if you were heterosexual girl with Southern Baptist missionary parents, you would most likely have faced the anti-Choice torture involved with giving birth to a child you didn't want.
1
If you're forced to go to therapy, it's torture no matter what. But sex exists on a continuum. Sometimes you feel a certain way and that can change over time. I used to consider myself bisexual but I no longer do. It wasn't therapy that changed me. My sexual preferences did. It's important to recognize that sexuality is fluid. Christians are crazy to promote conversion therapy. But it would be healthy for us to realize that sexual preferences can indeed change.
2
Perhaps one of the most important aspects of this situation is that it should raise broader questions for the medical ethics community and the public at large about the rights of children, and whether children are not being denied their rights, and abused by their parents or so-called religious organizations when they are involuntarily subjected to treatment for which they never consented.
2
Only in 2016 was legislation signed in Vermont by governor Shumlin which outlawed conversion therapy for minors. Unfortunately the legislation covered only minors although I would find it difficult to understand how this “ therapy” could not include adults.
I thank you for writing this piece. This practice should be outlawed in every state.
7
As a college student, before conversion therapy was the thing to be discredited, I went to my school’s psych clinic To talk about my feelings about men. The therapist honestly told me that it was an ethical thing for her to decide whether to Steer me in a Direction. I very much wanted to be straight, but the attraction for women wasn’t there. After about 10 sessions, in which I tried very hard to conclude that I was straight, we ended the sessions. I can remember the happy look on her face in that she had help me decide this.
Two years later I came back, knowing that I was gay and wanting to discuss other issues. I was asked whether I wanted to see the same therapist, and I had to say no. But she was still working there. She saw me and although she didn’t look at me, I felt she was hurt that she had failed me in someway. I only came back for a couple of sessions, and the new therapist talked me out of school therapy because I needed something more long-term. I think the fact that I had not chosen the same therapist was a factor in her kind of pushing me away.
We didn’t know then what we know now. Someday, even if this type of therapy is not illegal in all states, it will be laughable. I didn’t even know it existed until a few years ago when states started making it illegal. This is an ancillary issue to how we understand sexuality now versus 30 years ago. We will get To a point where children will no longer suffer.
9
Thank you Sam Brinton for sharing your very troubling story with the public and using it to promote healthy and balanced attitudes toward the LGBTQ community. Your voice is a welcome addition to this fight. I completely support your efforts. No one should have to endure someone's outdated notion of sexuality, nor should anyone be allowed to practice this psychologically damaging therapy. You rock!
19
My experience has been the majority of arguments supporting LBGTQ positions are usually not very deep. To the point I paraphrased the authors closing sentence.”Everybody should know you can’t change what you did not choose.” ? What am I missing here, is my understanding uninformed....how is this not what a transgender person doesn’t.....” change what you did not choose”.
My God Loves the LBGTQ community as much as He Loves the man having an extramarital affair and me who on a good day is lucky to keep 6 of the 10 commandments.
10
Robert,
You are uninformed. Gender Identity exists, and does not always align with genitals. Trans folk, for those who need to do so, change their bodies to help mitigate gender dysphoria: the gender identity remains the same (not aligned with their birth sex), and medical interventions help bring their outside bodies better in alignment with their mind. That is what medical and clinical research shows to be the best, most ethical practice.
Which arguments are ‘shallow’? The peer-reviewed, long-followed-up medical research, the personal testimonies of LGBTQ folk, or the witness of LGBTQ-affirming families, friends, and colleagues? Why do you not see that your unqualified claim is facile and disingenuous? Why do you not make the good-will effort to truly understand these complex issues by taking the whole of the evidence available?
You must make your way with your god, but please, do not confuse that with being informed.
Lastly, telling LGBTQ folk that they are ‘broken’ and that god ‘loves them’ will have the opposite effect, because they know they are normal and do not need ‘fixing’. LGBTQ folk know that message is being used to dehumanize, humiliate, and marginalize them. Stop with the god-bothering.
You are uninformed. Gender Identity exists, and does not always align with genitals. Trans folk, for those who need to do so, change their bodies to help mitigate gender dysphoria: the gender identity remains the same (not aligned with their birth sex), and medical interventions help bring their outside bodies better in alignment with their mind. That is what medical and clinical research shows to be the best, most ethical practice.
Which arguments are ‘shallow’? The peer-reviewed, long-followed-up medical research, the personal testimonies of LGBTQ folk, or the witness of LGBTQ-affirming families, friends, and colleagues? Why do you not see that your unqualified claim is facile and disingenuous? Why do you not make the good-will effort to truly understand these complex issues by taking the whole of the evidence available?
You must make your way with your god, but please, do not confuse that with being informed.
Lastly, telling LGBTQ folk that they are ‘broken’ and that god ‘loves them’ will have the opposite effect, because they know they are normal and do not need ‘fixing’. LGBTQ folk know that message is being used to dehumanize, humiliate, and marginalize them. Stop with the god-bothering.
2
Robert,
Yeah, nothing very deep about equal rights, civil rights and freedom to pursue ones happiness without persecution.
Meh.... nothing to support at all is there.
Your god loves us sooo much he'll condemn us to eternal damnation if we don't recognize him.
Nice.
3
Last year, I set in my living room listening to a friend, a happily married lady with 2 kids, who told me how she had lived a homosexual lifestyle for many years, and how she always knew deep inside she was not gay, but that different factors, among them total lack of motherly love, had lead her to get sexually involved with older women. She told me that all the psychologists she saw tried to convince her that she was gay, and only needed to accept the fact and move on. Somehow, she was embraced by a Christ loving community that did not try to change her, but where she could find council and finally left a lifestyle that was not what she wanted. She was very sad that she could not find a therapist that would help her just to try to sort things out and come out of her confusion. My sister is a psychologist and got fired from a job because she told a woman that she was not gay, just confused. Years later, the lady thanked her, happily married to a man and mother of a child. I understand that there are brutal practices that should not exist, but there are also very confused individuals that do need council and need to be presented with all the facts, even the one that they might not be gay at all. Not doing so presents another type of abuse and coercion, the same type that you Mr. Brinto is presenting as Torture.
7
Why is it is it that we never hear the term "heterosexual lifestyle"?
"Homosexual lifestyle" is a code word for bigotry as much as "states' Rights" is for racism. It enables pious talk of "confused individuals" being rescued by "Christ-loving communities" as if gay people lack the capacity for spirituality and as if they are the only people experiencing confusion. (News flash: We're all confused. Call this the "human lifestyle.")
In any case, Mr Brinto is not writing about people seeking help on their own through legitimate channels. He's talking about parents turning their kids over to torturers. "Brutal practice" doesn't begin to describe something as unfathomable as this. The most confused people in his story are his parents -- "deeply disturbed" is a more apt descriptor. For sure, it's a long way from Christ's love.
"Homosexual lifestyle" is a code word for bigotry as much as "states' Rights" is for racism. It enables pious talk of "confused individuals" being rescued by "Christ-loving communities" as if gay people lack the capacity for spirituality and as if they are the only people experiencing confusion. (News flash: We're all confused. Call this the "human lifestyle.")
In any case, Mr Brinto is not writing about people seeking help on their own through legitimate channels. He's talking about parents turning their kids over to torturers. "Brutal practice" doesn't begin to describe something as unfathomable as this. The most confused people in his story are his parents -- "deeply disturbed" is a more apt descriptor. For sure, it's a long way from Christ's love.
1
Did you not read the part about tying children down and subjecting them to physical abuse??
A perfect storm of evil: ignorance, intolerance, superstition, hate...and money grubbing.
12
As a semi-well-adjusted gay man, I've long joked that I plan to open a conversion therapy place to help Christian and Red state closeted gay males come out of the closet and start living their truth. Short of that, I think we should start a relief fund for LGBTQ citizens who need a financial subsidy in order to relocate from Alabama and Mississippi and other rural and exurban places all over the country.
38
MSPWEHO, if you want respect as a gay man you in turn should both empathize with and respect people who make different decisions and thus chose different behaviours. Just because a man experiences lust for other men, or conversely lusts for women but engages in sex acts with men (for a variety of reasons), doesn’t mean he is lying to himself or is “closeted”. He is simply someone who has made different choices than you. What is wrong with choosing his religion above his sexual desires? Is there anything wrong with engaging in so-called MSM (men having sex with men) while choosing not to embrace an LGBT identity? Aren’t we supposed to compassionately tolerate as many types of people as possible? Are you bullying men who are religious?
Seriously, please be kind and tolerant. Red state people, religious people, people who make different choices— they’re all just people. And like you, they’re not doing anything illegal. Maybe they’re not even judging you or thinking about you. Maybe they’re busy living their own religious and different lives.
Seriously, please be kind and tolerant. Red state people, religious people, people who make different choices— they’re all just people. And like you, they’re not doing anything illegal. Maybe they’re not even judging you or thinking about you. Maybe they’re busy living their own religious and different lives.
1
"bisexual and gender fluid" ? Oh brother! As a gay man, this gender fluid stuff is more damaging than conversion therapy. I spent years convincing my family that I was gay and the I could not marry a woman. If you are bisexual and can be with girls... why would you choose otherwise? I just do not get it
11
You don't get it because you don't want to get it. Not everyone fits into the neat packages that you and some gay people want to use to categorize people. Transgendered and bisexual people are sadly ostracized by the very community that should be most supportive for them.
1
My marriage of 20 years was conversion therapy, I never want to do that again...
I hope that it is not too late for the “therapist” who tortured you to face civil and criminal consequences for his maleficence. I also hope that you can maintain a fulfilling life without involvement with your maleficent family. Good luck to you and your fellow victims.
10
What other groups are you looking to "round up"?
Isn't torture already illegal? Why do we need a new law? Just prosecute the "torturers" under existent law.
Or is the writer trying to stigmatize his opponents by DESCRIBING their behaviour as torture?
4
Let's not play semantics. If you have trouble with the word torture, try abuse. The practice is antiquated, debunked and damaging. It needs to end.
19
Catholic Charities Family Services in Arlington attempts this form of “therapy”. Indeed they try.
7
Religious people ask God why He created gays.
I ask God why He created religious people.
54
Well said, my Lord.
9
I would suggest a commercial made with parents of children who underwent conversion therapy and committed suicide.
This may not sound very nice but I remember seeing a man in Alabama talking to people after his lesbian daughter committed suicide. He said he told his daughter it was against God at the time.
When he talks today, he wishes he could undo what he did and bring her back.
Heartbreaking but perhaps what is needed.
27
There's an enormous amount of homophobia out there in the mental health profession. It's not limited to conversion therapy. Growing up in the 70s, gay and coming from a deeply negative family system, I was in a lot of pain and needed help loving and accepting myself. Even the liberal humanistic therapists mimiced the society beliefs at the time stigmatizing any attempt at forming a positive gay identity by steering one to heterosexuality as the only healthy outcome. Even though the DSM removed homosexuality as a disorder 45 years (!) ago many therapists are still practicing a FORM of conversion therapy, stigmatizing homosexuality and steering one toward heterosexuality as a "healthy adjustment". Heterosexism is huge and most heterosexuals have no idea how difficult forming a positive gay
can still be.
7
This is an example of the so called Christian Right wing imposing their religion on others by the use of government.
27
It’s an unspeakable act of betrayal and child abuse for any parent to put their child through this. Horrible!
I would leave the house and run away as fast and as far as I could (and have my parents reported to CPS).
Frightening to think that this takes place in 2018.
15
As someone who has practiced as a clinical psychologist, state licensed, for over 40 years, I also find it almost impossible to believe that any credentialed (insurance-reimbursable treatment especially!) behavioral health practitioner would still ethically provide this "therapy." Those people surely must not be members of the professional societies, as they still can practice legally--practice religion, not psychotherapy! Yes, remove the law, legally prohibit the practice, if that's what it will take to stop this travesty of behavioral treatment.
23
Every gay person, whether phenotypically male or female, whom I've ever asked, says that he or she was born so. No one coerced them into being gay. Even as a straight person I nonetheless have atypical ideas of the feminine ideal that have been true for me since becoming aware of sexual feelings around age 5. Among my Evangelical friends and family there exists the notion that God does not create anyone gay, and that the so-called deviance is transmitted by adults or the secular culture. Being free of any need to make the facts of nature fit a constrained model of reality based on a tradition the interprets the Bible in a very particular way and that moreover considers it the Word of God--the acceptance of which tenet is a non-negotiable--I accept that the development of the brain, aka the biggest sexual organ in the body, unfolds in diverse ways, leading to many ways of being sexual, most but not all of which can result in offspring. I suspect there are traits that favor our survival as a species that either work at the societal level or which endow the individuals who do reproduce with advantageous traits, yet which in certain matings result in offspring that prefer their own gender! That the belief system of so many dear to me should quarantine such ideas to the point of rendering them inconceivable troubles me day and night.
6
A simple suggestion is to ask yourself : why would a homosexual choose to be homosexual ? Homosexuality has been around since the beginning. The history of homosexual persecution is well acknowledge, most societies have never accepted it. It has been, and is still illegal in many countries. I ask again, why would you choose to be homosexual.? ...the answer is ...you just wouldn’t.
2
I am proud that Illinois was in the vanguard, banning this barbaric, cruel form of abuse. The opponents of the ban were the most heinous sort of right-wing drek, painting child abuse as “religious freedom” and the ban as an attack on their freedom to worship. One of their ilk, Rep. Jeannie Ives, is running for Governor, where she makes this and her other anti-LGBTQ votes a cornerstone of her campaign of hate and bigotry.
The advances of the last decade could slip away if we are not vigilant. Our actions today protect children tomorrow. So vote!
16
It’s still legal in 41 states and it’s still as valid as the alchemy of turning lead into gold.
10
One thing the article omits which is quite relevant is whether this therapy actually works in a percentage of cases. Perhaps there are individuals who want to become straight, marry and have children the usual way, and crave the stability of a traditional household.
The fact that it is painful does not necessarily invalidate it. Many things are painful. We give our children painful shots with needles for their ultimate benefit. Many surgeries are very painful. Suppose a patient had a fear of flying. it is logical that the last step in such a therapy program would be to actually get on a plane and fly. The patient will no doubt be trembling and white as a sheet, and in a state which can only be described as torture. But if it works, the patient may be very grateful in the end. Hence, more information is needed.
8
Let's explore your reasoning. Assuming, arguendo, only 1% of the "therapy" works, and 99% of the cases creates misery, then let's juxtapose such "results" with other medical treatment.
Do you think surgeries with a similar ratio of success versus failure would be allowed?
I serious doubt that.
Do you have any reason to think there is a good "success" to failure ratio?
22
Gays are not patients. They don’t need to be cured. They are not sick. Gay individuals do not want to become straight. They want equal rights and respect. Would you also endorse conversion therapy for straight individuals who want to become gay?
28
You are SO wrong.
10
I am so sorry that our country did not protect you. I hope that "therapist" can still be tried for child abuse. I am appalled that this form of torture is still legal. We can do better.
36
This is a failure of parenting not our country. It's unreasonable to think your country can protect every person in every situation especially one where the government has no right or reason to know what someone's orientation is or may be.
Parents need to accept their children as they are and as they define and see themselves. There is no need to utilize these "therapists" at all.
Don't frequent them and they will disappear.
4
This should be illegal. Why isn't it?
24
To all heterosexual "counselors" administering "conversion therapy" to gay people:
Do you think you could be made into a gay person by undergoing the inverse analog of the process you're inflicting upon your patients ("subjects" might be a better word)? Do you think your basic hetero nature could be changed by watching videos of heterosexual sex acts while being frozen, burned, or otherwise assaulted/tortured?
As I thought.
Rather than try to change perfectly normal people to meet your own narrow idea of acceptability, how about spearheading your own conversion -- from bigoted, regressive zealots to members of humanity?
It would be best if Congress could issue a federal ban on gay conversion therapy, but since Congress has a hard time doing anything, governors and state legislatures, please outlaw this idiocy NOW.
32
As a psychologist and a human being!, I like your idea of "conversion." But I know what their answer would be--they think the "converting" is from the abnormal/sinful to the normal, so that's why they'd insist it wouldn't work the other way around. Sheesh. Even the term "conversion" has a religious connotation. The "practice" is a religious one, not behavioral health, of course.
12
It’s not what Jesus would do, it’s what does Putin actually does and what Trump wants to do. Stay in the closet, it’s going to get dangerous.
12
Socrates is the best!
1
Evangelicals have actively exported this torture to African countries such as Nigeria. Russian and Chechnyan police are rounding up and killing gay men. Does anyone think that the current White House Resident and his anti-gay VP will continue the State Department leadership to stop this violence that was shown by the previous administration?
26
One side will look at laws banning the practice as criminalizing morality and religion, while the other side will look at it as medical malpractice or practicing medicine without a license. A few big civil lawsuit awards against parents and those who are forcing conversion therapy on these kids might really stop the practice.
10
Misguided religious people, worldwide.
We've been given plenty of examples of wildlife exhibiting homosexuality in the natural order. And yet, it's apparently irrelevant.
Religious people insist on defining it as sin, with rules of their construction, for their advantage.
People should love each other as it feels innate. Why would they do otherwise?
Sin is to hurt others. Not love them.
19
Thanks so much for sharing but even more for working at The Trevor Project. I keep telling my students, I woke up this morning as Tai (straight cis woman, which they know), I can't get up one day and just be some totally different person. Same goes for all of them, we are who we are. Also, for my LGBTQ and person of color students, they generally have counseling with me because society is messed up, not because they are. Of course, this is not about me, just wanted to share my frustration and disgust as an ally. Keep working, please, Sam!
14
Conversion THERAPY ? In what way is brainwashing "therapy"? This is parent-sanctioned child abuse. If the counselor was licensed, the license should be revoked. If not, the "counselor" should be (or have been) prosecuted. And I would definitely sue.
13
As a gender males are in danger of extinction, biologically males are differentiated females. We have X’s XY’s but no only Y’s
4
Sigh. Not relevant and not true and, um, whatever.
9
Of course we want legislation banning conversion therapy but it is even more important that mothers, fathers, grandparents and family members let our youth know from an early age, that they will be valued and loved no matter what their sexual preference. Everyone deserves a safe place to land. I wish more families provided it.
22
you can't pray the gay away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0b7scFYx80
1
Homosexuality was considered a disease not that long ago; therefore, it's understandable they were trying to cure it. The concerns that gay youth and their families faced were compounded by the legal and moral environment of the day. Most physicians understood that homosexuality was "incurable," but this didn't stop the quacks that made their careers from this desperate situation. Professionals and quacks obsessed about the dangers of masturbation in the 19th century. They were precisely as successful as those who were in the business of curing gays.
5
Re: "Homosexuality was considered a disease not that long ago; therefore, it's understandable they were trying to cure it." It's not understandable that they were trying--and still are trying, apparently--to "cure" it with physical torture.
6
Jake -
You and George are on the same page. He was offering a history lesson of sorts, for some unknown reason. Sadly choosing to word his discourse in a way that would lead one to question his sympathies. It's a vestige of the self-hating gay.
3
If these methods were used on pets we would call it animal cruelty. But then, we don't expect our pets to accept Christ as their savior, tithe to a church and give birth to brainwashed right wing voters.
53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrrmeECJzoo
sorry, this is the right video - it's great
Barbarism!! That torture such as this should be legal in 41 states is truly unconscionable. I am left-handed. Let's torture me to become a righty.
19
The beatings will continue until morals improve (sarcasm intended).
6
I cringe to ask: is healthcare insurance covering this?
10
As a bisexual atheist woman, I am here to tell you that your parents and their faith community are the abominations.
You are beautiful and did not deserve the trauma they put you through. The earth and nature makes all beings and they have all forms of love.
Be strong and know there are others here who have your back.
34
Yup.
The Einsteins of our state government of dysfunction decided to embarrass us with this one as well.
You see the NH government is modeled after out Federal government. We have 400 state Reps and 24 state Senators for a population of around 3 million these days.
Which seemed to work during the horse and buggy days, but not now. Each rep/senator gets about a $200 year stipend. Needless to say you can't raise a family on that so too many simply don't have the time to do both.
Good governance requires a more detailed, focused and nuanced approach to actually work. So as a result the village idiot gets some really stupid things past the goal line. Then of course the Governor panders to the village idiot and signs the bill into state law.
7
How could this ever be allowed anywhere? How could any state sanction the torture of individuals, never mind children?
6
From Snope's Fact check site: the so-called nuance of Pence's position:
WHAT'S FALSE
Pence never stated that he supported the use of electric shocks or "gay conversion" therapy.
ORIGIN
In October 2016, an image appeared on social media accusing Indiana’s governor (and Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump’s running mate) Mike Pence of supporting “gay conversion” therapy, particularly the use of electric shocks as part of the practice.
The allegation dates back to 2000, when Pence was running for Congress. His campaign web site at the time touted his call to add a stipulation to the Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency (CARE) Act, a 1990 law providing funding for HIV/AIDS treatment for patients living with the disease lacking either the income or the necessary insurance to pay for it on their own:
Congress should support the reauthorization of the Ryan White Care Act only after completion of an audit to ensure that federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus. Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.
Although he didn’t say so outright, the position has been widely interpreted as signaling Pence’s support for “gay conversion” therapy, which seeks to “cure” patients of being attracted to members of the same sex.
3
It's unbelievable that this practice even exists, or ever did. It is quasi-religious barbarism, comparable to inquisitions and beheading if you refuse to convert to a particular religion, (which shall remain unnamed, though as this article proves, such attitudes are not limited to any particular religion).
Unfortunately, to put it mildly, the people who sanction and perform this form of torture are of the same mind as many people who support the current elected leadership of the US. (And who support torture in general.)
As with any form of extremism, the extremist always has an enemy. Just for a thought experiment, let's say all the gay people in the US suddenly went away. Would these psychological beheaders go away also? Not on your life. They would find another target, probably by decision at a big secret meeting in Washington DC. Religiously-driven extremists have a millennia-long history of persecuting people and getting away with it, and you might be next.
10
How does any of this jibe with "first, do no harm"?
The article says some of this is done by healthcare professionals. I would like to know what professional societies allow such barbaric nonsense so I can avoid them like the plague that they are.
Homosexuality exists in nature and is probably as old as humanity, if not before. I cannot for the life of me imagine how any loving parent could subject their child to this.
10
Light travels at 186,000 miles per second. Our galaxy, much less the universe, is so vast that the human mind cannot comprehend its size.
Instead of projecting their thoughts outward and trying to glean new knowledge, a depressing sector of humanity turns the other direction, towards ignorance and antiquated, religious bigotry.
Our fellow human beings do not "choose" to be a particular sexual orientation. That is how they arrive in this dimension. Somewhere in the inconceivably vast cosmos, an advanced civilization may monitor our stupidity. I do not blame them if they choose not to interact with this planet at this point in our pathetic evolution.
6
The universe is infinite, thus it’s illogical to think in terms of size.
2
Your comment is based on an unprovable supposition and is irrelevant to this conversation. No one knows whether or not the universe is infinite and no one knows whether or not our universe is the only universe.
1
Perhaps we can develop a conversion therapy for evangelical Xians? Or gun advocates? To me, because th are clearly "abominations"; beyond that, they are a clear and present danger to the social fabric (Texas and Kentucky school shootings, for example) and national security (the Trump-Pence kowtowing to their evangelical base, regarding US embassy in Israel, will likely produce acts of terrorism against the US).
11
Conversion therapy sounds indeed awful, and in a way akin to child molestation, introducing children to sexuality prematurely, and in a harsh and negative way.
But your assumption of causality between this wretched "therapy" and the oft-noted frequency of LGBTQ suicidal ideation sounds purely speculative to me -- the word "because" needs to be backed by better evidence before casually assuming one causes the other.
Suggesting this causality as anything other than speculation is a distraction in the search for better approaches to solving the distress that so many LGBTQ people experience.
Certainly this therapy should never be administered to a child or adolescent or anyone who objects to it. After reading the details I am not sure therapy is the right word. It sounds more like something a medieval barber would prescribe.
7
This kind of sanctioned torture is right down there in the pit with recovered memory, advertised addiction clinics, private prisons and payday lending...cash cows all. That it continues has to be due to the profits, not any "cures" that it generates.
5
These creeps make flat earthers seem cute, cuddly and harmless.
I've never known an LGBTQ person who "chose" that, and I spent a number of years in my younger days as a stagehand so I saw a lot of such folks. When I finally matured enough to realize this, and that there's no such thing as "bad" love when it's between happily consenting adults (or even happily consenting teens--with each other), I realized that I had no right to judge and was deeply ashamed of my earlier attitudes. My only right, and society's right, is that it must be HAPPILY.CONSENTING!
But I cannot conceive of allowing a child of mine to be tortured. Ever.
If the author can forgive his parents for what they did to him, assuming they begged forgiveness, he's a better man than I am.
It seems every religion has a faction that thrives on ignorance and cruelty in the name of some deity.
6
We should be able to agree that conversion therapy in the most extreme is akin to something straight out of the dark ages, and at best, a most vile and harmful practice on many levels. Why anyone would allow or force a child to be subjected to this strains any concept of humane or helpful behavior.
Should djt leave office early (we can only hope and pray), the man poised to step into his spot is an avowed and proud homophobe. He is against anti-discrimination legislation that protects our LGBT population, and a strident opponent of same sex relationships, much less marriage. Regardless of his spokesperson's denial about his support for conversion therapy, I don't believe it for a minute. Just look at his record.
He has a punitive, retrogressive, and odious religious agenda. He is dangerous.
Do we really want to see our country in those hands? Not I.
8
For seven LONG years, from sometime in 1972 until I finally walked away in 1980, a therapist, who was lauded in the New York Times as a great healer (she died in 2016, I believe) did this to me, a gay 14 year old. She tried to convince me that the panic attacks I was having were "gay panic" attacks, and she actively encouraged me to sleep with boys and men. This kind of thing has been going on forever, and many liberal shrinks in NYC were doing awful things to kids way back when. There are a lot of crummy skeletons hidden behind the doors of therapists's offices.
7
In the mid-1960's, religious authorities tied pregnant girls flat on their backs for the latter portions of their pregnancy as penance and to teach them not to "let this happen again." This was torture. It does not surprise me at all that LGBTQ youth are tortured in conversion therapies. Many "values-based" conversation were accomplished or seemed to be accomplished at the point of a knife.
The headline about torture triggered me. Now I'll read the article.
5
You have indeed been traumatized. I hope you and your peers who have been badly hurt by conversion therapy will seek out compassionate, highly-educated mental health professionals (we do exist!) who use research-based methods to treat trauma.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
5
The widespread practice of conversion therapy is appalling, and I am grateful to Sam Brinton
for providing Times readers with details about it—including how harmful it is, especially to
developing young psyches. I only take exception to his assertion that conversion therapy can
take the form of "a parent continuously punishing a child for acting too feminine," which is,
ironically, sexist in its implication that only male children suffer at the hands of their parents
for exhibiting signs and behaviors of the opposite gender. Many girls and women are also
forced to undergo conversion "therapy."
2
Assuming that the term "licensed" has any meaning at all, it requires some exposure to human behavior and the reality that change of any kind can't be imposed by Pavlovian negative reinforcement. What you describe is the most primitive application of this model.
If there is a law that prevents those with licenses from using this means of control, there can't be any such law for those who are sanctioned by a Church from using the same methods. The difference is that these religious "therapists" will not be moderated by whatever profession norms, Psychiatry, Psychology or M.S.W. they may have absorbed.
This will become a more popular specialty among fundamentalist religions. It will provide more income that is protected from taxation that could be used to provide real help to those who are struggling with conflicts of gender identity.
2
No- legislation means that a licensed guidance or school counselor, or social worker, who is prohibited from practicing this garbage, will be available to every child in the country. In NYC a good school practitioner can prevent this from happening. It's considered abuse and we work actively against it.
3
A lot of religious people really seem blinded by the effort it takes to deny reason and keep their illusions alive. I thought religion was supposed to be a source of comfort but for too many, it's an excuse to promote prejudice and to harm their own kids. If you think your child's life will be more difficult because they're gay or otherwise different from you, don't make it worse by being their primary adversary. Be supportive and expect fairness from everyone else instead.
3
Can you imagine how Republicans and evangelicals would react if we suggested using the tactics of conversion therapy to make a man who brags about kissing women without their consent, grabbing women by their genitals, and committing serial adultery turn into a man who respects women?
69
Obviously Republicans and evangelicals think that this is acceptable behavior for a man; they accept this. I wonder how they and Fox News would have reacted if Barrack Obama had behaved this way. They'd probably attribute it to his being black and they would call for immediate investigations. Tom Cotton and Devin Nunes would undoubtedly volunteer to be on committees. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell would be foaming at the mouth with outrage and they'd have the Senate and the House up in arms. Instead they just agree with Melania; "boys will be boys."
4
Parents who abuse a LBGTQ child, physically or emotionally, should have that child removed from the home. It's like punishing a child for having red hair. Maybe that will be next, After winning the conversion battle.
57
I believe that one's sexual preference is involuntary and whatever our orientation, we should be grateful that we're interested at all, in anyone! Are there people who are naturally and permanently celibate? Probably. Should we try to convert them?
I don't see why; rather it's their business, not ours and the same should be true for homo and heterosexuals as well.
32
Indeed, why don't we concentrate on mending our own ways first?
2
Every day we see more and more what a destructive force religion is in this country. Sadly the current administration and the GOP seem content to let the Evangelical fanatics in their base attack the LGBT community with their impunity. Of all the religions in this country, Evangelicalism is the worst. A religion that offers nothing other than bigotry, racism, intolerance, hypocrisy and greed. Truly a scourge on the land.
I take heart that Millennials seem to be turning away from religion. It cannot come soon enough.
82
I challenge you, Sterling, (and the rest of y'all too) to read the Bible, or parts of it, or at least flip through it, and find some examples of the topics mentioned above.
1
Please do not equate all religions with the Evangelicals concerned with here.
2
God has indirectly killed more humans than any other force out there. If you don't think so go to Pakistan or dare I say it Israel. Whenever man makes up an invisible being to control us. Watch out!!!
3
Comparative insanity traveling as therapy creates more trouble... most such therapists are dealing with their own issues, are in denial, are simply quacks. Masters and Johnston were nuts. Sexuality is simply not a matter of choice. Yet, folks can do as they please. Sadly, most are unhealthy, regardless their preference. Sex has become a sport for many. Sans feeling, sex is a bad sport. No winners. Sans feeling, just losers. Conversion is madness.
2
I guess I can understand the parents position. If i had a child who became an evangelical Christian, I would do anything in my power to convince them of the folly of believing in magical sky fairies and thinking that a book or tall tales from Bronze Age goat-herders was a source of moral guidance.
76
That is not therapy, it is torture. Why aren't these conversion people arrested for child abuse?
41
We permit these absurd conversion practices to go on for decades unexamined and unchecked while countless young psyches are damaged if not permanently destroyed. But we say nothing about the millions of our young people who have been permitted to morph into morbid obesity, as so many of my coworkers' kids have become. In the UK they would lose legal custody of their minor children whose weight surpasses 300 pounds on the grounds of neglect. Why don't we focus our conversion efforts on them and get them into better eating and exercise habits instead of worrying about something as nebulous as sexual orientation>?
8
What baffles me about this practice is the way the adults pushing it reveal their own short-sightedness and feeble grasp. Do they think they're going to control their children forever? Parents who pursue this only show just how nuts they themselves are.
17
Any parent that allows this should have their children taken away for their ability to create a hostile environment for their children.
15
As the mother of a bisexual college freshman, my heart breaks for the author. For the fact that his parents could not love and support him. For the fact that he had to endure this so-called "therapy."
I love my daughters, both, to the moon and back. I would take a bullet for them and woe to the person who tries to cause them pain. I cannot imagine how a parent could inflict that pain on their child.
As his Southern Baptist parents should have known, God makes all things in his image and perfect. To be perfectly trite - the author (and my daughter) were born that way and God doesn't make mistakes. Value all life, not just the life in the womb or believes in your version of God.
To the author, I say, the Episcopal church welcomes you.
24
I’m horrified hearing about this barbarous practice, but also just confused. Can anyone here clarify how it can be legal to subject an adult without his consent, or a minor with or without his consent, to electric shocks and painful extreme heat and cold? This would appear to meet the definition of assault regardless of who is performing it and the context of conversion therapy. So I don’t understand the author’s claim that conversion therapy is legal in 41 states, when that therapy includes actions that constitute clearly illegal physical abuse and torture.
What am I missing here?
26
You are missing that LGBT have historically been a despised group subject to all kinds of horror. You are missing that lots of hateful fundamentalist "christians" still bizarrely control lots of legislation.
5
Thank you Sam for getting thru this and for your work on behalf of other vulnerable youth. You have my support 100%. I came from Southern Baptists too, I know this world. It is heart breaking when a parent is deluded by this ideology and doesn’t realize that unconditional acceptance and love of their child is the natural and only way to be. Likewise you have no choice but to feel love for your parents. It sounds like you recognize this and remain patient thru it all. You are wonderful.
76
Mary, the video offers no credible proof that Mr. Brinton's story is made up. It appears to have been created by individuals ignorant of the effects of trauma on memory, and who lack a basic understanding of the extensive psychological literature on the futility and harm of so-called "conversion therapy". Shame on you for slandering Mr. Brinton in this way.
1
"Likewise you have no choice but to feel love for your parents."
This is wrong. A child does not choose to become so, nor chooses its parents. The parents start the process and have the responsibility to earn and deserve the love of their child.
There are too many "parents" who do not deserve the love or fealty of their issue.
This is wrong. A child does not choose to become so, nor chooses its parents. The parents start the process and have the responsibility to earn and deserve the love of their child.
There are too many "parents" who do not deserve the love or fealty of their issue.
3
In 1967, when I was twelve, with the best intentions, my mother enrolled me in conversion therapy. Fortunately, it was far away, and difficult to get to, so it didn't last long. But it was just long enough for me to understand the gravity of my situation. I was an outcast. I needed therapy in high school to deal with it, and I did deal with it, but the scar has never left me. It is simply impossible to explain the loneliness, pain and terror of being forced away from my Southern Baptist church community at that age, unable to understand why God would drop that burden on me. But of course, it wasn't God who did that.
206
No, it was all those very righteous people
who always know what God is thinking
and what he wants them to do to fix things.
2
My 14 year old son told us this last Saturday that he was gay. Though it was a surprise we took the opportunity to tell him this changed nothing at all for us, which he said he knew would be the case. Apparently he has known he is gay for about a year, and talked to several close friends about it over the past months! His friends (girls and boys, straight) seem to be totally cool with it. He has started to explain things to us. And of course we've been reading a lot. Education is important, because it may seem, intuitively, that being gay is a learned behavior, a phase, reversible, etc. It is not, and thinking so may indeed be terribly harmful (we do know he is still young, and should not be categorized already, but we accept that in all probability he has already determined who he is). We cannot help but be worried, and need to adjust to the idea. But on the other hand we are so proud that he has thought this through and felt confident to come out to close friends and to us, apparently never worried that anyone would reject him. Thank goodness nobody has, though we have begun to gently warn him that not everybody is accepting.
214
Bluestar....kudos for handling the news from your son with with love and affection.
However, I refute your suggestion that for some, "intuitively, that being gay is a learned behavior".
It is only the religiously bamboozled, ignorant and homophobic that might be hauling around that prejudiced, poisoned view of humanity.
To normal thinking humans with an ounce of scientific disposition, being gay is a very naturally occurring event documented in at least 1500 different species, albeit occurring with less frequency than heterosexuality.
Of all those species, it is only the lowly 'religious' human that intuits homophobia into the equation.
Best wishes to you and your son.
22
much grace and peace to you for the journey.Wonderful that your response is LOVE. Thats what he needs....watch as your own hearts grow wider. Love and
inclusion is amazing that way
6
To be fair, she does not say that SHE thinks that, intuitively, being gay is a learned behavior - she says it may seem to be but "It is not."
11
A fine article. I wonder how many of these conversion therapists are practicing what they know is not accomplishable just to bring money to their practice?
And how many are practicing because they hate gays or have ignorance to blame. Either way, it smacks of exploiting the adolescent gay shamefully just because the law does not give him the power to resist.
And the law does not protect him from ignorant parents who, quite understandably, think homosexuality is something you can shake off.
If only these misguided parents would ask for - demand - empirical evidence that conversion therapy really works. The practice would stop overnight just as law school admissions have dropped since students realized the degree was next to worthless unless it was from an elite school they were not eligible to attend.
If they only could realize nobody chose to be homosexual. It happens to males and females alike. The evidence is there. If they - the ignorant parents - would take time to read it.
So why not leave them - the gays of ANY age - alone to make a life for themselves without truly ignorant but misguided straight people butting in. -Estaban Goolacki out
9
God save us all from those who claim to speak for God.
51
Why is he blaming therapy? His parents sent him.
2
Because the 'therapy' is rooted in the Christian craziness and religious homophobia that his Christian missionary parents picked up on from their lunatic interpretation of Christianity and fellow 'Christians'.
There's a bigger organized religious picture of misanthropy and ill will toward others, Johnny.
42
He was tortured in conversion therapy and wants it banned. It is a form of torture. Homosexuality, bisexuality are NOT mental illnesses, therefore conversion therapy shouldn't exist.
29
I agree; he should sue the living heck out of his parents, the "therapist" and his state for allowing such.
When I was in junior high school we were warned that there might be some homosexuals at the high school who might try to recruit younger boys into their so called lifestyle.
We thought it was about the funniest thing we ever heard. We were just entering adolescents and hiding our playboys in our basements. Nobody was going to recruit us. We knew we were straight.
That was forty five years ago. If we knew back then that you can't change a persons sexual orientation then why don't people today know it?
22
Great comment. Thank you.
While you knew it back then, so many others did not. Both they and their children suffered the ignorance,
1
Well, William, you are not telling the whole story. I was in middle and high school 45 years ago and, as a gay teen, it was no walk in the park. I imagine you witnessed lots of bullying and outright violence - as I did - against myself and other LGBT on a daily basis. Why not add this context to your comment? You give the impression everyone was all cool about co-existing with us. Clearly that is false.
7
Sam, you and all the others who have undergone the suffering of this barbarity and come out the other side should take great pride in yourselves as decent, compassionate, open minded individuals. Congratulations to you and everyone else.
And every parent, preacher, adult in authority, and therapist who has advocated for this torture, or has practiced it, should be utterly ashamed of themselves, if not brought up on legal charges.
It is outrageous and disgraceful that this inhuman idiocy exists in the modern world.
9
Medicine is meant to treat diseases. Some medical procedures may be difficult or unpleasant but the idea is that, left untreated, the suffering caused by the disease will be greater than the suffering caused by the therapy. But would you pull out healthy teeth just because you could? Or how about undergoing chemotherapy for the fun or it? Even better: make your child do it. Homosexuality is not a disease. It is totally irrelevant whether it is inborn or acquired; it is a natural human behavior, no different from preference for blondes or brunettes. By itself, it causes no more suffering than any other individual taste. It is only in the context of a sick, repressive and guilt-ridden culture that it becomes a problem in need of a solution. Parents who inflict unnecessary therapy upon their children, be it physical or psychological, should be held criminally liable; and physicians who “treat” healthy people should lose their licenses.
99
The removal of homosexuality for the disease category was a completely political decision, not based on science. It was decided by a vote after much intimidation and prolonged lobbying by homosexual groups. Don't tell me it has been determined not to be a disease.
2
I am shocked and dismayed that medical professionals are legally allowed to perform "conversion." What procedures are involved?
Absolutely morally reprehensible. Should be totally outlawed at a FEDERAL level.
5
Please elaborate and provide citations of the "science" in support of homosexuality as a disease. And please be sure that your citations are in peer-reviewed publications.
2
Conversion therapy is a factual oxymoron. It is also the modern day witch trials.
And it should be consigned to the dustbin of junk science and hyperbolic nonsense.
Let people be who they are and recognize that it is far more complicated than religious beliefs and stories and someones chosen morality.
Genetics, nature via nurture, neurobiology, neurochemistry, psychology etc all play massive roles in who we are, and there is no getting around those truths.
Humanity does not fit in neat little boxes of moralizing dogma.
11
What is wrong with these people? Parents and their hand pick therapist torture and emotionally abuse a child to force feed their beliefs. All involved in Mr. Brinton's "therapy" should be prosecuted for child abuse, and conversion therapy should be made illegal nationally. America's moral compass is broken.
7
America's moral compass is okay.
It's the moral compass of conservative Christians that is completely immoral.
28
I really don't get it. I am straight because I'm wired that way. No choice or will is involved. It just is what it is. The people that think sexuality is a choice must be born bi-sexual. That is the only way that I can se sexuality as being a choice.
11
OK, if that's the only way you can see it,
then that's the only way you can see it.
1
Bisexuals don’t see sexuality as a choice either. Bisexuality is no more a choice than straight or gay.
1
Homosexuality seems to have no purpose. Nevertheless, it exists all over the world. How did it come into existence? It has to be a miracle--part of the variety and glory of the Creation.
Th Bible, to be sure, commands us to kill homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13). But the Bible also includes totally unconvincing passages like the following:
“And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chestnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods. And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink. And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted” (Gen. 30:37-39). There is no way in the world that looking at rods while having sex can change the way one's offspring look.
5
Who knows? Maybe it started with Cain and Abel.
There seem to have been no women around. Except for Mom.
But that's another story.
1
And Jacob did this so he could cheat his father-in-law.
1
Congresswoman Bachman of Minnesota was married to a gay conversion practitioner. Until I heard that I really didn't know that conversion therapy was anything other than an Onion joke: https://www.theonion.com/evangelical-hospital-holds-5th-annual-gayness-c... . Having failed to criminalize gayness the evangelicals still think they can cure it. This would be silly if it weren't so cruel.
14
As a part of Sam's extended family and a gay man who also endured conversion "counseling" as a youth, this fight is far from over. My parents also sent me to a Christian counselor to fix my orientation (and my mother was a psychologist) in the early 1980s. But it wasn't until we met Catholic priests who were understanding (and gay) that we (my parents and I) began to come to terms of what it meant for me to be gay and a good Catholic. While I didn't have Sam's experience of physical torture, I can still remember very clearly trying to convince the therapist that I was normal. My husband, Ed (Sam's cousin), and I are happy to have Sam as a part of our gay family and stand proud of his effort to speak up for those abused by this practice. Go get 'em, Sam!
24
Let's be clear what the root cause of homophobia is: organized religion, specifically the conservative branches of Christianity and Islam.
Without those two misanthropic branches of humanity, homophobia would barely register on the list of human phobias.
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
Conservative organized religion is a continuing disgrace to humanity.
Hitting people over the head with a medieval religious textbook causes a lot of brain damage and religious ill will toward others.
151
I'd disagree that this is the "root" cause of homophobia, which is not actually a phobia but just a dislike/prejudice against a group of people.
Rather, the root cause of homophobia, and indeed of religion, is the primitive need to feel like part of a tribe, and to fear the *other* tribe, the *different* tribe. Humans intrinsically are drawn to fear and dislike things that are different, that challenge their comfortable world view. Religion is a means of propping up one's own world view so that one feels safe, and to socially manufacture a tribe. Threats to that safety become despised.
This explains almost the entirety of Trump voters, to paraphrase John Cleese.
6
This is why I have faith in God but not in churches. God made us all what we are. No one should be able to alter or belittle that. And for any parent to tolerate the torture of their child let alone be a missionary who is supposed to spread the word and love of God- is beyond intolerable. This is why Pence is so scary to me -because he is a Bible thumping zealot of a John Bircher.
27
Thanks for bringing this up. I am surprised and saddened that MA, usually in the the forefront of LGBTQ rights, allows this practice to legally go on. I'll be writing my state and city representatives about that. Good luck and praise to AZ, MO, VA and WA, in their efforts to outlaw this harmful "therapy", and to the nine states where it is already outlawed.
12
Ice water and electric shocks is appalling therapy to force on youth, regardless of the goal. Is it truly legal? It clearly should not be.
Attempting to pass-on your religion on your children through words or prayer is a protected by the constitution, regardless of whether the religion makes any sense.
Allowing adults to make the decision to submit to extreme, ineffective measures to change is time honored. Shall we also ban the weight-loss industry?
Let's not get hung up on sex, but think about what's really going on and write clear, effective laws to protect the vulnerable, while preserving our freedoms.
8
It ties in with the evangelical abortion obsession. If (as seems highly plausible) we will one day be able to determine in utero if a child will be LGBT, does anyone really believe that evangelicals will remain anti abortion? I don’t, not for one second.
16
"I sat on a couch over two years and endured emotionally painful sessions with a counselor."
If the legality of *that* much is in question, I think we are only a step away from making illegal the teaching of any ideas that, as per trigger warnings, make a person uncomfortable. Clearly, nobody should be forced to watch anything or have anything applied to their body. But is it sound to ban nutty ideas? It is presumably *true* that the writer's faith community rejected his sexuality and considered it an abomination. To call something an abomination is to express a certain moral judgment about it. What are we going to do, ban all moral discourse other than what we agree with? Would it then be illegal for someone, or for a psychologist or therapist, to try to persuade a person to think that homosexuality is morally wrong?
20
Did you stop reading there?
Are you unaware of the next paragraph in which the author describes restraints and electric shocks and being forced to view pornography, or did you intentionally leave that out to present a dishonest argument?
19
It can be made illegal when done by a licensed professional to a minor.
8
"Would it then be illegal for someone, or for a psychologist or therapist, to try to persuade a person to think that homosexuality is morally wrong?"
Summary: Yes, it would. It's fine to have your own personal "belief system" but to force that on your child without any other alternative context is a crime against humanity.
15
At the center of paradox lays the dysfunction.
Most of the Conversion Therapy supporters are the ones that scream about people being free and liberty and all other kinds of nonsense, like their rights are being trampled on. And then they spin around and tell you how to live and who to love. I find that kind of thinking way more unsettling than two men walking down the street and holding hands.
28
I believe our very own Vice President of the United States is enthusastic about Conversion Therapy.
I am going to force Pence him to watch the terrific flash mob video from the Courage Campaign, Madonna's Like a Prayer, "Michelle Bachman, you can't pray the gay away"!!
18
What about the kids who are questioning, and are told they are gay, and encouraged to embrace it, while others celebrate?
My niece married a guy, divorced him because she thought she was a lesbian, shacked up with a girl for a couple years, before discovering she really is straight.
That compares with a college [girl]friend who had an affairs with another woman on the softball team, but then got a boyfriend. She was hounded as a traitor who was turning her back on her real self, and the LGBT community.
That's not to compare to the nuttiness of the "conversion therapy" crowd. But it is meant to note that we use peer pressure in many ways to steer questioning youth to our perspective and sexuality.
9
Yes, but it's a long way from your anecdotal evidence, to an actual phenomenon that in any whatsoever, let alone comparable to the suffering of gay people from being ostracized by straight society.
And it feels a little gratuitous, in the context of torture.
24
Telling someone who is unsure that it's OK to explore their sexuality and that they'll be accepted if they're gay or bi isn't even remotely the same as attempting to torture them into behaving the way you'd like them to.
15
The straights don't get bisexuals, and neither do the gays. Because that's what you're describing - the way our society sees bisexuality. Encouraging young people to explore and embrace their sexuality has nothing to do with it.
6
First of all, it's unethical to force any kind of therapy on anyone. That's not even debatable. So let's stop with the straw man arguments when it comes to gay conversion therapy. Secondly, there are literally MILLIONS of people who at one time engaged in homosexual behavior who stopped doing so at some point in their lives. There's even a community known as the ex-gay movement. So let's stop pretending that homosexuality is some kind of immutable identity. Since we have abundant evidence of people who engaged in gay behavior who stopped, then by definition that means we KNOW people can stop engaging in gay behavior. So if someone WANTS to stop engaging in gay behavior and a therapist can help them, then it's absolute fanaticism and totalitarianism to outlaw them from doing it. The identity movement is complete mass hysteria at this point.
11
"Secondly, there are literally MILLIONS of people who at one time engaged in homosexual behavior who stopped doing so at some point in their lives."
Evidence?
23
Catholic priests stop having heterosexual sex when they are ordained. They remain heterosexual. The Catholic Church tells parishioners that being gay is not a sin, but engaging in sexual behavior is - so be gay, but no longer have sex.
I agree that LGBTQ activists can be overbearing on those who are questioning in the same way that second wave feminists were hard on women who freely chose to be stay-at-home wives and mothers. But the idea that there is any comparability here is unsupportable.
5
Going to a therapist and being forces to go to a therapist are 2 different things.
9
Minus so-called Conversion Therapy, suicide rates amongst LGBT remain astronomical.
3
Yes, because all too often they are treated badly by their families, school mates etc.
4
If "everyone should know that you can’t change what you never chose," then it would be rather unfair to blame and punish the men and women who have an innate and genuine attraction for little children or animals. Those people have never chosen that attraction. They grew up with it, and It is natural to them.
Shouldn't they enjoy the same legal freedom to exercise their sexual choices just like the heterosexuals, bisexuals, and homosexuals?
6
Children and animals have no actual or legal capacity its to consent. That makes all the difference.....at a bare minimum. Decency will fill in the rest of the absurdity of your proposition.
5
It may be time to review the concept of "consent".
2
Have you ever heard of the concept of "willing partners?"
3
The absurdity of conversion therapy is to reverse the concept. How well would it go to convert true heterosexuals to the homosexual desire?
14
I don’t know WSF, I think I could pretty easily ;)
Maybe that means I’m actually bisexual and just don’t put it to the test. Maybe a lot of people are. Or maybe not. Who knows? Human desire is very mysterious.
Parents who force their children to engage with conversion "therapy" should have their children taken away from the state.
8
I guess "Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin" is out the window?
2
homosexuality is not a sin, nor is sexuality itself a sin despite the teachings of many religions.
7
I hope so. It's about time. I love you as long as you don't do that thing that makes me uncomfortable, even though I could never go without myself. Sorry, that's not live.
I don't think state licensing is the problem. I'm pretty sure the backward nature of Christianity (the belief in the rules written by your imaginary friend) is the problem.
38
I thought aversion therapy such as the described in this article only belonged in A Clockwork Orange or Tom Sharpe's hilarious "Indecent Exposure." Aside from pseudoscientific idiocy and film-flam, the practice is torture, plain and simple and by any definition. How can it be legal in any state, left alone a majority of US states, and how can a civilized people elect a VP who is known to have enthusiastically supported it? This is mental; medieval.
26
If you think that this is limited to fantasy, read up on Alan Touring, who cracked the Enigma code and invented the modern computer.
2
This abhorrent practice is nothing more than a money making business. “Therapists” who offer conversion therapy are no more than snake oil salesmen and need to be publically identified and roundly condemned. The sad fact is there have been “therapists” who have later themselves come out as lgbt and admitted to self hatred and internalized homophobia.
10
When oh when will we eradicate formalized religious groups? Religion is the root of far more bad than good, and any 'good' done in the name of religion often has as an ulterior motive (to indoctrinate and gain more followers/power). Also, plenty of good is done in the world WITHOUT religion being behind it, but yet so much bad is done specifically BECAUSE of religion.
I am so utterly tired of reading about all the hate committed throughout the world, on a daily basis, all because of some 'books' that people deem to be 'sacred' and the rule of law.
17
In addition to the handful of state and local laws that now forbid licensed health care workers from performing conversion therapy on minors (which have been upheld as constitutional by several federal appeals courts), a group of former "patients" New Jersey successfully filed suit against such an organization under the state's consumer fraud law and won a terrific victory, including substantial damages putting the organization -- called JONAH - out of business. Those brave enough to sue (which involved "coming out" publicly and being the focus of media attention) will need to find a good civil litigation attorney and such a suit is most likely to be successful in a state that has strong consumer fraud laws. Any "therapeutic" practitioner who is claiming that he or she can "change" a person's sexual orientation is making fraudulent claims that should be open to challenge in court. Must of the laws that have been enacted against this therapy target only licensed health care professionals and do not restrict religious practitioners, but JONAH was an orthodox Jewish outfit, and claiming "religious freedom" did not prove a successful defense. When the trial testimony was made public, it quickly became clear that these practitioners were quacks!!
11
I would like to start a campaign to make the American Psychiatric Association apologise for having treated homosexuality as a mental illness. I suppose that there is as much likelihood of that as there is of the Vatican apologizing for saying that it is sinful. If psychiatrists could be wrong about that, then they could also be wrong about everything else.
9
The APA reversed their definition of homosexuality as a sickness in 1973. Since they they have atoned many times over, often championing LGBT rights causes in many venues.
To those heterosexual people who condone or inflict this kind of 'treatment' on people: what would be your thoughts if the situation were reversed, and you had a therapist or other person inflict these actions on you to convince you to be homosexual?
Would it work? I highly doubt it. What do you think your mental state would be like after years of such treatment, especially during your adolescent years? Is such treatment something you would put your own children through?
The point is, as the author states, you can't change what you didn't choose.
25
Sam's story is actually fake. He makes money telling his "story." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx9A7L-bpZE
2
It is highly likely that people who think like this are gun advocates. Is that my only little prejudice. Why aren't they concerned about the death and destruction associated with guns. Or about people who are denied health care, food and a place to sleep. Ah. Religion.
4
Wonderful news. Glad to hear you are starting this campaign. I wonder if heterosexuals can visualize someone trying to convince them they are gay - it just won't happen. And, the same holds true for someone who is homosexual - they won't become what they aren't. Good luck on this endeavor and I will be supporting such efforts in my backward state, as a heterosexual person.
8
How much have we evolved since the barbarism of the Roman Colosseum two thousand years ago where thousands of animals were slaughtered in a day? Not far I'm afraid to say.
8
It should be legal, as your view that it is not a perversion is completely in experiment stage.
I am not sure why people who have gone through conversion therapy would consider suicide. I would be more likely to consider murder.
23
I have a feeling that most religious people know it won't work, they just enjoy torturing people. The look back at the Spanish Inquisition as the good ole days.
16
Could "conversion therapy" change Donald Trump into a level-headed champion of human rights and social justice for all people?
16
Not enough money in the world to do that.
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
4
Perhaps those "professionals" who advocate such barbarism should be exposed to some sort of therapy in order to obtain or maintain their license.
2
VP Pence was all in on conversion therapy and if it meant less to spend on HIV treatment - so be it, and nows he's off lining-up biblical prophecy in earnest.
6
Don't believe for a second that he's not still all in. He was just confounded by money pressure.
1
We stand little chance of changing this sanctioned barbarism as long as there are elected officials like Mike Pence who openly embrace this sort child abuse as a reasonable alternative to human nature. How New Jersey home to organizations like Jonah was able to get their governor to sign off on legislation speaks to the power of reason. That New York and other east coast liberal bastions are unable to make this leap in reason only illuminates the power of the all mightly dollar and the politician's continued need to enjoy the plunder of graft and corruption. Woe to all who live in this country now.
6
I hate to tell you, many people are saying Mike Pence's attachment to his "Mother" figure could be the result of conversion therapy. SAD!
13
It seems Massachusetts allows this. I just wrote my legislators asking them to act to make it illegal. We are such a backward country in so many ways.
12
A little like the efforts that used to be made to change left-handed children. Worse, of course. But most of us tend to think that what WE can easily do (love the opposite sex, lose weight, get on an airplane) is equally easy for everyone else. The older I get the more I realize how wrong that is.
But with sexual orientation especially, you'd think everyone would be saying, "Hmmm, could I change and become gay? No? Then how can I expect Soandso to change and become straight?"
129
This heartbreaking article lends further credence to the adage that when you mix together religion and health "care," what you get is religion.
14
Is there any way to cure a sexual aberration? I asked a Clinical Psychologist and a Psychiatrist a similar question and they had no answer. If I have Cancer, I want it cured, not deal with it.
2
Is there a cure for narrow mindedness and prejudice?
16
Interesting you should raise this, in this manner. There isn't a cure for cancer, there is treatment, the effects of cancer can be mitigated, but cured, no. Hence the term "remission", which was applied because no medical professional wants to write "cured", as cancer is there for life. I cringe every time I hear a well known cancer sufferer say they've been treated and "cured", and never mention their doctor told them to get tests "for life", because cancer can "come back". It can't - it does not leave... Sexual aberration? Cancer? In the computer industry, we call this kind of stuff "undocumented features"... But I digress. Yes, humans torture other humans. It does make one wonder whether we are as advanced as we like to think we are.
I'm going to use a minute, probably waste one to say: George, you seen to equate
cancer with homosexuality. So, you believe that homosexuality can be "cured?"
This is what conversion therapists believe, apparently. Better to put that energy and time into helping to cure cancer, IMO.
3
Until members of the L.G.B.T.Q. community get the same Federal civil rights protections that people of color have, states will continue to try to pass legislation (such as Religious Liberty bills) that codify the practice of discrimination and unfairly restrict the rights of a group of people who are being targeted because of their sexual preference.
These laws remind me of the laws that were passed by the same "Christian Conservatives" back in the 50's and 60's against people of color and they are just as unjust now as they were then. Until all Americans are treated equally, there will be no equality or justice in our great country. If you want to "Make America Great Again" protect everyone's rights by passing civil rights legislation that protect everyone.
98
The religious right in this country are being shown and exposed for who and what they are regarding their beliefs and practices as "Christians". They are increasingly under the spotlight on the national scene lately. Their cruelty and hypocrisy have no bounds and are antithetical to the teachings of Jesus, whom they profess to follow and live by. This psychologically brutal and inhumane treatment of children and young adults who are particularly vulnerable to psychological and emotional damage while still developing and maturing, is egregious. This therapy abandons and damages those who undergo it and should be stopped. Period. Those who practice it should be charged with abuse. Period. No responsible therapist should ever use these practices as they are unethical. Period. No person should subject anyone to these practices because it is cruel. Period. The religious right has been exposed as opportunist and their cudgel of moral superiority is invalid due to their hypocrisy and cruelty. These people have no shame and should be called out at every opportunity for their transgressions. They should be ashamed of their behavior and treatment of their fellow human beings. Children especially. How could you do or allow this to be done, to a child?
14
In a perverted way, allowing the religions right to roam free and exposing their true beliefs may actually be a benefit of the Trump administration.
Perhaps, like cops who have to experience a Taser before they're issued it, advocates of this sort of treatment should be required to endure it. Better still, perhaps there's a treatment to rid people of their religion. Oh yeah, there is: it's called science.
6
IIRC, a fetus initially develops with both male and female characteristics and later changes to a particular sex. IMO a percentage of births produce a physical body of a given sex but the mental aspect does not match. Thus, a person with a male body will have the mental characteristics of a female, i.e., a person with same-sex attraction. It's not a freak of nature, it's just nature.
Science eventually will figure out the nature of all this. Until then we need to educate the haters that their hate is not warranted and any efforts to change or convert people are harmful, not helpful.
Religionists need to leave people alone and let them have the dignity of their existence. They cannot beat away the gay by clobbering people with bibles.
93
Who needs the details? Some portion of the population is left-handed, too. Scientists should have a normal curiosity as to "why?", but outside of that, who cares?
1
"Religion poisons everything." C. Hitchens. I would not go to this extreme, but there are times when i read articles such as this, I do believe 100 percent. The answer is more education and more science in schools, especially in our genetic foundations which can and do misfire, and less Bible reading at home.
9
I am so tired and angry of individuals practicing this torture under the guise of Christianity. Evidently "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is one admonition from Christ we should forget because obviously these charlatans have cast it aside. Is it any wonder church attendance across this country is down?
While I am not a Catholic, my admiration for Pope Francis skyrocketed when he, in no uncertain terms, directed his assembled Cardinals in Rome to stop finding fault in others and get back to the real mission of Christianity; to help the poor, the weak and the sick. Physically and psychologically torturing people is as far away from that as one can get.
10
What is so amazing is that most Christians who allow these practices usually consider themselves "evangelical," which by definition means that they wish to attract others to their faith.
When I see American evangelical Christianity in action, it makes me want to run in the opposite direction -- and/or vomit.
12
I keep trying to imagine people who would do such things to their children out of "love". The only kind of love I can imagine them having is for themselves. Certainly not for a child whom they would subject to such tortures.
7
The supreme court decision to legalize same sex marriage should have put a stop to this abuse. The dangers of unenlightened religious beliefs knows no bounds. We desperately need to pass the equal rights amendment at the federal level.
5
Courts cannot just randomly pull things out of the air to rule on them.
This is an outright violation to our free rights as individuals and living citizen of earth. Oppression is well and alive everywhere and we must stop the oppressors by speaking loud and clear. Let your voices be heard.
Peace and love to all living beings on earth!
5
I’m sympathetic, and do not believe conversion therapies should be used on minors. However, I think adults should be free to undergo whatever therapies they want.
Adults who were molested as children often report intrusive and unwanted sexual thoughts that mirror the events. If that adult identifies as straight and wants help to manage those thoughts, therapists should be free to assist them.
The unifying principle is that therapists should help people be the person they want to be. Forced conversions of children should be illegal, but we must not let identity politics dictate what adults can do with their own lives. Any such blade will end up cutting its wielder.
Where did you get the idea that anyone was suggesting such a course of action?
I spoke with a relatively well educated, decent, mature, and devoutly religious person the other day. He sincerely believed the ancient Greeks walked around naked all the time. He based his perceptions on photos he had seen of ancient Greek statues. By extension, he thought the ancient Greeks were a decadent society.
I tried to explain that these were idealized artistic forms, and no way were based in reality, but to no avail.
This is the mentality we are dealing with as a society.
13
We need a law that removes Tax Exempt Status from any organization that practices torture, which should include the practice of so-called conversion therapy--whether physical, psychological, or both.
With their 501(c)(3) status hanging in the balance, you will see how fast those religious organizations "convert" away from it!
8
Last year, our 13 year old son became withdrawn and negative. After prodding , we finally got him to admit why: he was gay. We told him we loved him, and worried for his well being, got him a therapist to help him deal with what we thought would be a long coming out process. Well.
He was out within 4 months!
Better yet, he was wholly accepted by his peers. He has also completely emerged from the shell and his grades have gone up. He is happy and calm and centered and our pride in his could not be higher.
Why do I mention all this?
Because as important as your words are, it is also equally important we all become pro LGBT warriors. We have to challenge these therapies, yes, but also the wrong-headed thinking behind them. Only when society rids itself of its rampant homophobia, will these conversion therapies be discarded. This therapy is a particularly evil and extreme manifestation of the accepted homophobia in corners of the US.
Putting it another way.....
I grew up in NJ and my brother was gay. He did not get to come out until his 20s and when he did, he was not met with acceptance. Yet, in the 20 or so years since then, my son has grown up in a completely different environment also in NJ. His coming out was no big deal. What changed in 20 years? Same location. Same town. New thinking.
So I applaud you for speaking your truth and I urge you to keep doing so. Moreover, let's expand the message to say that homophobia, in 2018, is no longer acceptable!
562
These are stories which make me cry--as a 60 year old gay person who suffered so much. I always cried at the Pride marches when I saw the P-FLAG groups. Your kindness means a great deal. It IS better than it used to be, that's for sure.
8
Shades of Clockwork Orange.
I am sorry that happened to you and happy you have overcome it and are helping other people to do so as well.
It needs to be expressed to parents who want to try this that they are increasing the chance that their child will die by suicide. While some few would find that a reasonable trade-off, I suspect most would not.
Also, in my opinion, it is irrelevant whether orientation is innate or chosen. It harms no-one either way.
9
People would be truly happy if they could live their lives as they are. I have met gay men and women hiding in straight relationship to parents coming to grips with having a gay child. For some it may be a passing phase while others being gay is intrinsic to whom they are. For those whom thump the Bible, remember this simple commandment from the Teacher: "Love thy Neighbor." And do so without a caveat and one's life will be transformed through unconditional love.
2
I'm unclear on what the author is advocating for. Banning "conversion therapy" for minors? Maybe. Banning it for adults? Well, that's their business. If we're going to ban snake oil medicine, we could start with chiropractors and homeopathy. Both have far more influence, with equally dubious results.
38
You are absolutely wrong as to chiropractors. One visit a number of years ago relieved my back pain. The doctor told me after this one session that I won't need another appointment. He showed me an exercise to keep my back in shape That was about ten years ago and I've had no problem since. What one needs is a well trained and honest doctor. There are good and bad in every field as well as honest and dishonest.
6
The existing bans all protect minors only. As you correctly point out, consenting adults may submit themselves to whatever nonsense they wish: acupuncture, chiropractic, massage therapy, aroma therapy, even religion! The states and federal government need to protect children. Here is a link to existing laws in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._jurisdictions_banning_convers...
3
Maybe? Tying children to tables and electrocuting is a maybe? I'm no longer surprised by the ethical tailspin in this country if this is a maybe.
5
As I read Mr. Brinton's description of conversion therapy, I was struck by how similar it sounded to the so-called 'totalist' political and religious indoctrination practices of the 1950's and 60's. Specifically, those described in the cites below.
If there is a ray of hope, I suppose it's the possibility that a psychological therapy can be outlawed at all. If the conversion therapy took place in a religious or political setting, then they might be interpreted as protected religious or political speech under the first amendment.
In reality, most of these sorts of abuses are not confronted by the State at all. The psychiatric and psychology profession seem to be the way that it is managed, vis-a-vis best medical practices by the medical profession.
Cites:
Bloch, Sidney and Peter Reddaway. Psychiatric Terror : How Soviet Psychiatry Is Used to Suppress Dissent. Basic Books, 1977.
Hassan, Steven. Combating Cult Mind Control. Park Street Press, 1988.
Hunter, Edward. Brainwashing in Red China : The Calculated Destruction of Men’s Minds. Vanguard Press, 1951.
Lifton, Robert Jay M.D. Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism : A Study of Brain-washing in China. University of North Carolina Press, 1961.
6
Too many Americans will remain unimpressed, and view LGBTQ rights with apathy or hostility. My suggestion is this: in every LGBTQ-supportive article include a brief discussion that sexuality is a product of biology, and NOT a product of culture or Satan.
Liberals must convince conservatives and the religious "faithful", rather than to merely "preach to the choir." I think the only way to do this is with rational argument backed by scientific evidence. The biggest battle our Nation faces today is whether our American society will be governed by scientifically-backed reason for the good of all, or by false facts and raw emotion.
2
That goes to the question of whether or not there is a gene that predisposes a person toward homosexuality, and if so, should it be illegal to perform abortions based upon such prenatal tests. This twists the concept of "choice" in pretzels, but is the logical consequence of the biology argument.
2
Any parent who cannot accept who their child is does not deserve to be a parent. I can see how it would be difficult to fight the anger and disappointment you might feel — and rightly so — toward a son or daughter who abuses drugs, engages in criminal acts, or is violent. That is a reaction to unquestionably bad life choices. But if your child tells you that he or she is gay or bi, I cannot imagine not loving that vulnerable human being enough to put your own wants and needs aside and just accept the total person without reserve.
With each year that passes I am more convinced that religion twists the soul.
269
Sure blame it on religion.
Gay conversion is real.
Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, a clinical psychologist in California and author of "Healing Homosexuality" who was president of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), the country’s largest organization for practitioners of ex-gay therapy.
Nicolosi has treated hundreds of people who are now able to live normal lives.
While genetics may influence the tendency towards feminine or masculine character, choice and free will determine where a person ends up. Being gay is mostly free choice and that can be changed by better knowledge of the psyche.
'Gay gene' researcher Dean Hamer was asked by Scientific American if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology. He replied: 'Absolutely not…we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited."
From a column by Frank Bruni in the NY Times (January 2012):
The exact dynamics through which someone winds up gay are “still an open question,” said Clinton Anderson, the director of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Concerns Office of the American Psychological Association.
A. Dean Byrd, writing for the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality: "Dr. Francis S. Collins concluded that 'there is an inescapable component of heritability to many human behavioral traits. For virtually none of them is heredity ever close to predictive.'
In other words it is a choice.
Pathetic that this still goes on, even in our home state of NY.
11
Being an incompetent parent is legal is all 50 states. You can do to children what no person should ever have to bear.
21
What kind of sick parents could subject their child to this?
13
Easier to list those that ban it: Oregon, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Illinois, Vermont, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, DC.
Additionally, these cities and counties have passed local bans:
Pima County, AZ
Westminster, CO
Bay Harbor Islands, FL
Broward County, FL
Boynton Beach, FL
Delray Beach, FL
El Portal, FL
Greenacres, FL
Key West, FL
Lake Worth, FL
Miami, FL
Miami Beach, FL
Riviera Beach, FL
Tampa, FL
Wellington, FL
West Palm Beach, FL
Wilton Manors, FL
New York City, NY
Athens, OH
Cincinnati, OH
Columbus, OH
Dayton, OH
Toledo, OH
Allentown, PA
Doylestown, PA
Philadelphia, PA
Pittsburgh, PA
Reading, PA
Seattle, WA
39
Thank you CRC for providing more thorough reporting than the NYTimes.
Maybe I should subscribe to your posts instead!
4
In 1962 my roommate and I were forced to undergo psychiatric treatment in order to be cured of our homosexuality, with the result that he committed suicide and I became a schizophrenic. We were only sixteen years old when we were made to begin years of the psychiatric torture that led to his death and my incarceration in insane asylums for fifteen months. Psychiatrists are allowed to drive their patients to suicide or psychosis with impunity. You can read our story in my book What Rough Beast, by Robert Dole, published by Austin Macauley in London last year.
90
Torture is legal as long as you call it "gay conversion therapy." Does that bother anyone else here, or anywhere?
41
I really have to ask Evangelical Christian Americans: Why does someone's sexuality have any effect on you? I would be more worried about child molesters like Dr. Nassar and perceived straight men than I would about homosexual people.
161
State Boards are normally instructed by their legislators to follow the guidelines of their profession. The legislature, in other words, leaves the practice of medicine and psychology to the scientist-practitioners, as it should. The national organizations in these fields have roundly rejected conversion therapy. How can the state boards and legislatures persist in allowing this?
8
It is really remarkable that people can't let others be. Hypocritical claims of violating "social norms" religion and morality are used to inflict enormous pain and trauma on people who veer off the "mainstream" path. Why would anyone care who wants to sleep with whom? I thought we were out of the Dark Ages, but there is a huge population here in America who would have preferred never to have evolved.
19
I’m stunned this antiquated and abhorrent “therapy” still exists. And saddened that there still exists people in this country (and world) who consider themselves morally and spiritually superior to others. Their feeling of superiority is repugnant. We are all in this together and the sooner we stop pointing fingers at one group, accept people for who they are and start working as a team the better.
14
I don't have much faith in the willingness of state legislatures to outlaw these horrific practices, but the courts may be another matter. Conversion therapy might not be illegal but it's clearly unethical.
The therapists and clergy who indulge in this madness should be sued for everything they've got. A few highly publicized lawsuits will probably bring more attention to this issue than a NY Times op ed piece.
16
I am a psychiatrist--and a gay man-- in the San Francisco Bay Area and I can attest to the lasting damage that so-called conversion therapy inflicts on its victims. This discredited practice is advocated and practiced by uniformed, misdirected and often malicious "therapists" and religious personnel who know nothing about the complexities, intricacies and biological foundations of sexuality. Fundamentally, it represents nothing but a thinly veiled punishment directed towards gay people by those who cannot tolerate their presence and who deem themselves to be morally superior to their victims. I long for the day when these charlatans become reportable to the law and face criminal charges for malpractice. Thank you, Mr. Brinton, for your article and for bringing attention to this deplorable and traumatic practice.
386
Malpractice? They should be charged with assault and go to prison.
5
Brinton was tortured by his parents' ideology, and they USED conversion therapy as a tool. The way to change that is to make it expensive, and to make sure it is not accessible as a medical or psychological service. That doesn't prohibit it, but it does place the responsibility on those who hide behind fraudulent ideology. Prohibition didn't work with booze, isn't working with dope, and most obviously, doesn't work with sex.
2
When I was in my early 20's and came out as gay I had an aunt suggest conversion therapy. I told her that when she tried it out and successfully changed her sexual orientation from heterosexual to lesbian, I might listen. I told her that if she doesn't think that it's possible to change her sexual orientation then why did she think it be possible to change mine. When the shoe is on the other foot changing ones sexuality doesn't seem so possible.
204
I can see some problems with banning conversion therapy. For instance, what counts as “conversion therapy”?
I heard about a therapist who helped men work through whether they were gay, and because he supported some men who decided they were not gay, he was accused of practicing conversion therapy (he engaged only in talk therapy). We don’t need witch hunts.
Also, if an adult decides they want conversion therapy, perhaps because they are religious, is it really anyone’s business but theirs? After all, I’ve had acupuncture even though most scientific minds think it’s hocus pocus. Many people engage in sadomasochistic practices because they want to. If no one is deceiving adults about conversion therapy’s success rate or scientific basis — and they still want it — why bother to make it illegal and deny them?
Obviously, tying up children and hurting them while they watch images of people having sex seems like a very, very bad idea. But wouldn’t that kind of thing already fall outside the bounds of therapeutic practice? Shouldn’t a therapist lose their licence for that — re: physical and sexual abuse.
65
RE: "if an adult decides they want conversion therapy, perhaps because they are religious, is it really anyone’s business but theirs?"
First do no harm.
If you ask me to cut off your head to stop the headaches you've been having it isn't appropriate because you ask me to do it.
16
In response to C in Toronto:
What is being banned is allowing the state to endorse the practice by therapists whom the state is licensing. This is an extension of the principle that the therapy these practitioners use must have a scientific basis. Otherwise, a therapist can be sued by the client. (I was required to carry 2 million dollars worth of insurance when I was in training in NYS. This was before I had received my license.) Since there is no scientific basis supporting the efficacy of conversion therapy, not allowing a state board to license the use of it by therapists that the state is licensing is a logical extension of the principle that the licensed therapist is using methods that, again, have a research basis. We don't allow medical doctors to use unproven methods in their practice. The same applies to therapists who are licensed by the state.
4
Marie, I don’t think engaging in some talk therapy, as one man accused of practicing conversion therapy did, is the equivalent to cutting someone’s head off.
A practice which is uncomfortable but doesn’t cause damage strikes me as well within the bounds of acceptable treatment for informed and consenting adults.
3
if we're talking about minors being forced to go through a conversion process, yes. that should not be permitted, in particular because many adolescents don't even know what they want yet. But, if an adult wants therapy to adjust their sexual preference for their own reasons, they should be allowed to find it. I wouldn't want to make it illegal to practice or research conversion methods for these people. We shouldn't block the road for an adult who wants to change.
3
You could possibly have a point - if it's not provided by a therapist.
Just as a doctor is not allowed to prescribe snake oil and placebos as medicine, no matter how much the patient wants it - a licensed therapist should only be providing medically sanctioned therapy - and conversion therapies have been found to be only harmful.
21
State and federal laws protect consumers from false or misleading advertising, such that no business may make false, misleading, or deceptive claims about a product. Fraud is not lawful elsewhere, so why allow it here?
12
Certainly any state licensed practitioner needs to be reported and brought up on charges.
8
There are very good public health reasons why banning conversion therapy in all states is appropriate, & those reasons have nothing to do with liberal or conservative political views. According to the American Psychiatric Association & many other sources, being gay is not a disease, and conversion therapy has been proven to be ineffective and harmful .
Government at local, state & national levels has the long established responsibility found in public health laws to apply legal tools to public health problems associated with disease, injury and threats to health and mental health safety in our community. Local and state public health departments can use the law as an instrument to protect public health, safety, and to rein-in legions of snake oil salesmen. Litigation against tobacco companies in the United States is an excellent example. Programs to fight the zika virus is another. When it comes to public health/mental health treatment and therapy, freedom of ‘personal choice’ should be based on reliable professional sources and not used as just another means to bash authority in favor of ‘freedom from bureaucrats’. States should use the authority found in their public health statutes to ban conversion therapy ASAP..
163
The laws currently in force ban this "treatment" for minors only.
There is an entire corpus of law for dealing with things of this nature: it's called Tort law. Hire a lawyer and sue.
9
Such non-consensual “aversion” therapy including assaults to the “patient” should, in my view, not be exempt from the general criminal law. Making every allowance for a range of reasonable, or indeed unreasonable, political and moral perspectives, I struggle to imagine that in 2018 the general population in any given state would disagree with this.
4
If consenting adults who are dissatisfied with what appears to be they perceive to be sexual orientation want to engage in this procedure who are we to ban it?
These weren't adults.
And we also ban doctors prescribing snake oil and other scams to their patients, even when a desperate cancer patient badly wants to consensually pay money to get what they think is the latest cure for cancer (magnets! herbs! etc.).
4
Using scientific evidence to prevent harm is, thankfully, still standard practice in certain elements of our society. Licensed therapists, like doctors, are not free to practice whatever form of intervention they fancy regardless of evidence that shows said intervention is bogus, ineffective, cruel, etc.
1
The writer was a child at the time and it is still practiced primarily on children. That certainly can be banned. I'm guessing that would put these quacks out of business though as there are few adults, if any, that would be interested in the therapy.
3
Even if homosexuality is wrong, which I don't believe for a moment, conversion therapy must be recognized for what it is: assault. No one is or should be attempting that sort of treatment for, say, alcoholics. Just as a matter of political strategy, the issue of sexual freedom should be separated from the issue of conversion therapy as a form of assault.
10
Has anyone tried this kind of "therapy" for alcoholics and drug addicts? I find I'm much less willing to walk across the room when it causes pain to do so. And isn't there a drug you take that makes you sick if you drink?
1
Could someone name the 41 states that allow it so we can notify our individual state senators and legislators of this atrocity?
208
Wouldn't it be easier to ask for the nine states that ban the practice?
1
California bans it for certain. And does so, thanks in no small part to all of us liberal lefties and Governor Moonbeam of the Left coast – as the GOP and right wing radio often describes us.
I like the description, and I like being progressive, after the root of the word is Progress.
4
Notify not just our state legislators, but the heads of every big company with offices in such states.
1
This is terrible...conversion therapy--especially when done to the extreme of the author's personal story--is a misinformed and terrible approach to sexuality issues. That said, some of these statistics and characterizations are (potentially?) misleading--I can't tell what the word "treatment" means or what is classified as "conversion therapy" by the author (along with the stats associated with those terms). If it means professional, torturous practices, then I'm all for states banning the practice. If it means "someone once challenged/engaged me about my sexuality", then that's qualitatively different and not something you can legislate against (constitutionally, at least).
For instance, he says: "The practice can be performed by a licensed therapist in an office, in a correctional-style campground, by a parent continuously punishing a child for acting too feminine, or by a pastor who wants to pray the gay away."
While all of these examples might share the same perspective, professional therapy or a correctional-style campground are very different from a parent raising their kid a certain a way or a damaging conversation with a pastor. I'm fine with the government being involved in the former, but not the latter. Since a lot of the piece is built on the sentiment of "look how big this problem is, we should legislate against it", it would be helpful to qualify what exactly is meant by these terms and numbers.
18
Conversion therapy is also called aversion therapy. A therapy you inflict pain or distress until a person associates the pain and distress with the act they're supposed to avoiding. It simply doesn't work I worked in psych since 1983. It does not work. If it did everyone be be using. Instead the extended therapy and treatment needed to correct what this did cost more than the original therapy. The Mormons use it extensively. I can show you files of people who can't even touch another human being at this point. It did not cure it traumatized. It's something used by quacks to take your money.
9
Jake - did you miss this paragraph?
"But we didn’t stop with these hurtful talk-therapy sessions. The therapist ordered me bound to a table to have ice, heat and electricity applied to my body. I was forced to watch clips on a television of gay men holding hands, hugging and having sex. I was supposed to associate those images with the pain I was feeling to once and for all turn me into a straight boy. In the end it didn’t work. But I would say that it did, just to make the pain go away."
Larry Nassar called what he was doing "treatment," as well.
10
I think you're misunderstanding (or mischaracterizing) what I'm saying. I'm not arguing that the treatment the author went through is ok, or that it shouldn't be illegal. I pointed out the need for clarity between what he went through and other, far less extreme encounters with challenges to sexuality. The author seems to conflate "sexual-orientation being discouraged by a parent" and professional "treatments" like the one he personally experienced. In his case, they obviously overlapped. In other cases, they don't or are far less extreme. While both can cause damage and might be part of a bigger problem, they're still categorically different situations--and I don't buy that one has to lead to other (or that we can't stop that from happening). Especially when it comes to legislation, which is what he is proposing. I can get behind banning the professional "therapy" he went through, but not behind legislating parameters for parenting or religious conversations. I know there is a grey area in there, but I think it's possible to sort out, which we've done with lots of other issues.
Thank you for publishing this. I have a partner who was subjected to this same barbarous torture, also here in FL. It's hard to overstate the damage it can do, the anxiety it can cause, and the time it can take to heal.
87
As a bisexual woman myself, I long for a world where conversion therapy is outlawed and seen as the horror it is.
75
In my younger days I was a homophobe. Twelve years of Catholic school and an upbringing by less than tolerant parents is hard to shake. Despite all that, I have shaken it and my views have vastly changed. The chain is broken - my daughter will learn to to accepting of all people. I truly believe that this effect is happening all over the country and the world.
I am sorry that you were subjected to that horror. I am sorry that I didn't realize the error of my ways sooner and do something to prevent it. Today, I will write my representatives and request action on this ongoing atrocity. Thank you for the wake-up call.
Also, please sue that therapist.Nobody doing such things should be allowed to continue those practices.
396
Ever fewer Americans are exercised by the idea of homosexuality. Most young people, those below the age of 30, don't seem to care about anyone or anything queer except to acknowledge it in passing as ok for someone else to do, if they are not into it themselves. Seems like most of the ugly slurs are uttered by those whose religious upbringing disposes them to make normative judgments, usually those who recognize homosexuality in themselves and cannot integrate it successfully...
22
Perhaps it's time for some big-time lawsuits by survivors of these tortures: against the "practitiioners" -- and, yes, even aainst the parents and clergy who try to coerce young people into them?
136
you are highlighting a very important issue. this is not the therapists only, but the ministers, parents, parishioners, families. this has the same dynamic as sexual abuse by the clergy. how is a child to defend himself against all this? is conversion abuse am issue for girls as well?
where does all this homophobia come from? why do so many people succumb to group think when it comes to homosexuality? we are not talking about murderers and wife beaters. how good can your god be of he is only a god for you, and not for all?
where does all this homophobia come from? why do so many people succumb to group think when it comes to homosexuality? we are not talking about murderers and wife beaters. how good can your god be of he is only a god for you, and not for all?
1
Christians who support this (including VP Pence) need to look at their WWJD wristbands and actually ask themselves that question instead of parading it around like a badge of superiority.
298
Yes. Whom would Jesus torture?
14
"Christians" such as Trump and Pence have turned Jesus's Sole Commandment ("Love one another") into an obscene farce.
7
But without their moral superiority, they've got nothing.
6
Can you imagine someone suggesting you pray the diabetes away? This practice is child abuse. PERIOD!
203
Homosexuality is seen by many, or most people, as a chosen behavior outside the norm and thus not a consequence of biology. The belief that it is volitional behavior places it in the mental/spiritual category, thus subject to psychological, clerical or psychiatric intervention. Diabetes, by comparison, is universally accepted as a physiological, biochemical occurrence and a legitimate health problem, its cause not subject to personal choice.
5
Being LGBTQ is not a disease. I appreciate your sentiment, but it's the wrong analogy.
15
And there was a time when many, most people, believed that the world as flat too. (Some still do). Believing something doesn't make it so. And then the question that serves as an example: When did you chose to be heterosexual?
18
Conversion therapy should be illegal. I’m surprised that there are not many lawsuits by ex-conversion graduates against these organizations? They should be put out of business. I remember a shrink trying to convert me in college nearby Sacramento. Fortunately, it didn’t work. I then had a Freudian Psychiatrist who was more encouraging to have relationships. Sadly; I did not continue with him. Today; I’m happily married to my husband and didn’t get “converted”.
26
"Torture" makes you think of electroshock therapy. Being "bound to a table" might qualify as torture as having heat, cold, and electricity "applied to [his] body." However it's a question of degrees (no pun intended). A mild stimulus des not qualify as torture. More broadly, the parents are entitled to their religious convictions without being branded thought criminals. Reading this opinion piece uncritically would make a reader believe Sam received torture similar to prisoners at Abu Ghraib but that does not appear to be the case. Indeed, if Sam was tortured he could press criminal and civil charges against his parents and the facility.
17
The parents are entitled to their religious convictions. But what is described in this article is child abuse, pure and simple. One cannot use religious convictions as an excuse for harming a child.
10
So, "Uncommon Wisdom," when the author says he told them these so-called treatments were working, "just to make the pain go away," would you like to parse what precisely he means, or could mean, by "pain"?
Oh, I know --- he must be referring to the emotional pain he was causing his family. That must be the pain he was trying to make go away.
Gimme a break.
11
Uncommon Wisdom writes: "Reading this opinion piece uncritically would make a reader believe Sam received torture similar to prisoners at Abu Ghraib but that does not appear to be the case. Indeed, if Sam was tortured he could press criminal and civil charges against his parents and the facility."
Uncommon Wisdom may think as he/she pleases, but should familiarize him/herself with the legal definition of "torture." See, e.g., the Association for the Prevention of Torture (https://www.apt.ch/en/what-is-torture/), which states:
"Article 1 of the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment is the internationally agreed legal definition of torture:
'Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.'"
11
New York and Massachusetts are both very old "states". As such, they have many antiquated and dangerous laws on their books. Both states need to do major reforms of their laws such that future trouble-making politicians cannot use them to do injury to citizens.
Both state and commonwealth can start a clean up process by addressing the legalization of a very harmful and dangerous conversion therapy clinics that are injuring many of their younger citizens.
27
Do major health care professional associations mentioned in this article have membership policies that preclude 'conversion therapy'? If not, and given that such practices are barbaric and not evidence-based, how do they justify opposing such practices but not banning members engaged in them? A little pressure on them may be effective.
44
Words fail. My heart goes out to anyone who endured such cruel and sadistic treatment from people they were meant to trust. It should be illegal to try and break the essential core of innocent young people.
54
Does anyone remember eugenics in the 1920's and how rapidly the scientific and legal establishment accepted the premise that certain people should not breed (remember the Carrie Buck Supreme Court case)? There was plenty of "evidence" was generated by the leading intellectual lights in support of eugenics.
8
Why can't everyone let everyone just be. We are supposed to be living in enlightened, well-educated times and yet this torture is permitted, even encouraged in some clearly under-educated circles. Religion is, of course, at the bottom of it all. I am old and did not even (know I had) met a gay person until well into my 20's. But I am of the strongest opinion that your right to swing your fist ends at my nose, and everyone should be permitted to be who they are as long as they hurt nobody else. That includes parents permitting their children to develop into the people they are destined to be.
57
And we call ourselves a modern society. Well, this is just more evidence of why there is a huge divide in the country. And the thing is, this is not one of those issues on which reasonable people might differ. It is one of those things that shows why it is so hard for many people to bridge the divide.
No amount of Bridging the Divide therapy or Liberal Conversion therapy will ever help us. Just as a gay person is who they are, so are liberals.
Note to all those cultural therapists out there: stop with the attempted conversions to your faith or to your distorted sense of morality and we will leave you to your own thoughts as long you don't hurt anyone.
19
Conversion therapy is mental and physical torture and as such needs to be banned. Those committing this torture should be prosecuted and convicted of torture under national and international laws against torture.
34
I agree with you when there is actual torture. I think conversion therapy is idiotic. I am not sure that being bound to a table to have ice, heat and electricity applied to my body while being forced to watch clips on a television of gay men holding hands, hugging and having sex would classify as torture.
2
C
Being bound to a table and having ice, heat and electricity applied to your body is torture. I don't know what your parents did to you or what you do to your kids but this is torture and the fact that you don't acknowledge it is very scary.
6
OMG. I feel sick. I assumed conversion therapy was trying to convince you to "see the error of your ways". I had no idea it included actual torture. I guess I've lived in more enlightened parts of the country. What the...? How on earth is this legal?
107
NWWell.com: Apparently Oregon is one of those progressive states who has already banned conversion therapy.
How about a private lawsuit?
9
I was thinking: this still goes on in this country well into the 21st century? But then I remembered what is currently residing in the White House with the backing of so many "Good Christians." Thankfully they have no sway on the little piece of paradise where I live. All the best Sam in your endeavors.
71
Your childhood therapist belongs in jail. I hope you reported him or her to the appropriate authorities. if not, it would be interesting to know why not.
45
I certainly agree with your sentiment, but reporting a therapist to the appropriate authorities would be pointless in the 41 states where this awful and damaging practice is legal, especially when the victim's parents, usually, have arranged it and are footing the bill.
4
If there is no law against gay conversion therapy, the "authorities" can do nothing.
Our social policies are stuck in the dark age, and probably will remain there until the scourge of religion is eliminated as their driving force.
75
For 10 to 20 percent of children, public education is harmful.
5
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you implying that public school=conversion therapy in terms of harm?
2
Sam, Good article. It might be helpful to have some info on actions we can take to push outlawing conversion therapy. For example, which states are considering it now or will in the near future? Is it best to write hard copy letters to legislators, call, e-mail, etc.
27
The principle shortcoming of this ridiculous 'therapy" is that it doesn't work, always fails. Most of the individuals enrolled in these programs are children and adolescents forced into the program by their (Christian conservative, usually) parents, who seem to feel that the eventual failure commonly resulting in suicide, is an acceptable Plan B. All very Christian.
97
I will write my NY State Senator a letter about this today. I regret not knowing that this was somehow still legal. I believed that since it was officially deemed ineffective (obviously) that no one would still be using it. I feel badly that I have not done my part to encourage legal changes for anyone who would be subjected to this harmful fake medicine. That ends today.
86
When you write, refer to NY Senate Bill S121. According to the NY State Senate pages, it is "in committee."
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2015/s121/amendment/original
I'm contacting my NY State Senator, Tom Croci, by way of the NY Senate page.
3
How are some of these practices not assault on a minor? Very eye opening article. Keep up the good fight!
166
Thank you for your courage and your advocacy. As a current clinical mental health counseling student who lives in NH, I am now - thanks to your story - committed to making youth gay conversion therapy illegal in my state, and everywhere.
135