The “chaos” often attributed to Trump is at least equally attributable to the so-called Resistance. The most energized Democrats are the ones who have the least to say to traditional Democrats and independents—not to mention Republicans. What’s more is that their progressive policy stances are not those of the Democratic leadership.
Our bridges our collapsing beneath us and Trump, who has offered absolutely no infrastructure plan, wants his 20 billion dollar, useless wall. This is madness.
9
At this point, all I want to know is what my Democratic leaders are going to give away to get the DACA folks permanent legal status. We all know McConnell and Ryan will not allow a clean DACA-only vote. Republicans don't give without getting more than they give. That's what only Democrats do. So what will it be, Mr. Schumer? Loyal Democratic voters have a right to know.
Have to say that I think people are missing the real point. It isn't about DACA or the wall per se, its about the future of immigration in general. I'm not sure that taking the wall "off the table" is any more meaningful than putting it on the table. There are other ways to limit immigration and the GOP will find ways for that to happen. Like it or not, this is a dangerous route for the Democrats. Simply put, not everyone wants more immigrants especially in places where Democrats are vulnerable. I can see the commercials already. Just because people generally support DACA doesn't mean they will base their votes on it.
1
The compromise that Trump promised to sign into law in front of television cameras, during a bipartisan meeting on immigration and funding the government, explicitly included a LOT of taxpayer money (= Trump caving to the government of Mexico) for the wall, and the Dream Act.
It's only logical that when all of a sudden Trump flip-flops, rejects that bipartisan bill and now no longer wants the Dream Act, Schumer no longer funds his absurd wall either. THAT's what the CR that all parties just signed into law achieved.
Now negotiations on the same compromise will start all over again, but Trump should understand that "loyalty" includes sticking to a deal, once you make it. So in order for him to learn to understand this, it's only appropriate that Schumer now refuses to fund his wall any longer. After all, only 1/3 of the American people want it, and Trump's own chief of staff is trying to explain to him that IF he cares about truly keeping Americans safe, he should focus on other things than a wall.
So Schumer obtained a LOT that wasn't secured until now yet:
1. a 6-year extension of healthcare for 9 million children that the GOP refused to extend.
2. once again no funding for the wall yet.
3. an open government.
4. finally a real debate about immigration, rather than talks behind closed doors, so a real democratic process - something that is absolutely crucial in order for a democracy to thrive.
5. a deadline of only 2 weeks to sign the Dream Act.
Go Schumer!!
3
"Mr. Schumer’s decision to renege, made on Sunday but revealed publicly on Tuesday"
Withdrawing an offer that was rejected is not reneging.
5
There is so much talk about the Wall on the Mexican border. But, there is no longer the talk about whether Mexico will pay for the wall. At the end, it looks like the US taxpayer will be the ones who will have to face the bill. Where is the funding going to come from? The Wall has now become a bargaining card, and what cannot be comprehended is if this is a priority over other pressing issues. Just to take one item from the list, there are millions of people without health insurance. What about badly needed infrastructure improvements? Yet, no one talks about them. It is agreed, border security is important. It is difficult to understand why the Wall could be the only solution to the problem.
In analyzing all the discussions and rhetoric surrounding DACA, it is difficult to agree whether the republican party in Congress are serious about seeking a solution. With the POTUS not being clear, it is just a few republican party Senators who are initiating some effort.
It is unclear whether the "Dreamers" are part of the 11 million odd illegal immigrants living in the country. If immigration is a pressing issue, why are the elected representatives not saying anything about the larger number? The number has grown over the years. With no serious action in the past, both political parties have to take the blame.
Whether there will be a border wall or no wall, it is doubtful whether there will be a solution to address the plight of the "Dreamers" in the very near future.
So we get a House bill that has money for the wall and no Daca. It goes over o the Senate where the so-called "moderate" Republicans like Collins say they are appalled, and then a couple days later say they will vote for it. At that point what are the Democrats going to do? Filibuster and shut the government down? What for 48 hours and then cave again? All I can imagine now is that Trump knows he can say the worst and most racist things and in the end the Democrats will just give in. Bet he had a good laugh when he saw this.
Half of half of illegal immigration is due to people extending visa stays. What we need before a wall is for it to be mandatory for employers to comply with a national everify system. ICE should go after businesses that do not comply. Many businesses skirt the system (or will try) by hiring “contractors”. Therefore they should be included as well.
This should be implemented before a wall. Why has this not been done?
5
Wall aside, I worry about the Democrats going forward. I have sympathy for the Dreamers but unmanaged immigration is no platform to run on. It puts the Dems in a lose-lose situation. I know net migration from Mexico is 0 but past few years, you saw huge influx of Central American migrants in addition to a smaller but growing contingent from other countries. This is in addition to Visa overstays. So, I think brushing off people's concerns about immigration is condescendingly glib especially since we are so bitterly divided over what to do with those who are already here.
I lean more center and will sit out if the Dems decide to run on this issue. It seems those to the left of me will sit out if the Dems don't. We're not going to convince each other otherwise. The enmity intra-party might be worse than between the Dems/Repubs. Illegal immigration was one of the biggest reasons why Trump won. The Dems didn't have a good counter message except conflating legal and illegal immigration. No mater what you say, there is a difference. I come at it from less of a moral standpoint and more from the standpoint of immigration being managed so that it doesn't rip apart social cohesion.
3
The Democrats are going to have to choose between DACA and the Wall. The Wall costs money but will do no one any harm. The taxes on repatriated corporate cash held overseas would probably pay for the whole thing. Schumer et al will have to decide if stopping the Wall is more important than saving people who grew up here. Stopping the Wall may impress the left wing base but it will not impress Independent voters, who are the only ones who matter, if they sell out these immigrants so they can stop the Wall. Moderate voters want the DACA problem resolved and if they are against the wall, that sentiment is about one inch deep in contrast to DACA.
1
I dont really understand what the big deal is about the wall. Let Trump build it and trade if for something actually important.
9
Getting funding for CHIPs was very important in the first round of "negotiations". With that deal made and signed by the President, come February Democrats can dig in and demand a commitment to DACA, even if it causes another shut-down. Ryan and McConnell can no longer hold the health, welfare and very lives of sick children hostage.
6
Would the President settle for a curb? A small beautiful curb.
13
A Tax Bill for billionaires and a WALL? Where is all this money supposedly coming from? Certainly not from Mexico. What's the next thing? Take away entitlements that we've been paying for all our lives? They are anything but entitlements! We need to hurry up with this next election so we can get the greed and insanity out of the White House and Congress. It will be great when we can breathe again.
10
It's been said The Wall is a "monument to stupidity." But it's also stupid to turn away people who are already Americans in every way except paper work. The Dreamers have been rigorously vetted. Few of us could pass the same tests. These kids are patriotic and ideal citizens. NO DACA, NO WALL. If Trump wants his monument, let him have it. Who cares? Even he knows it will not make us more secure. (Notice the two most recent school shootings were carried out by white Americans). White Supremacists have killed far more Americans than immigrants have. We need a way to keep THEM out.
10
NO WALL FUNDING. We need to address immigration issues while being clear there will be no wall funding. Most Americans don't support it; only 25% of immigrants pass through it, it's estimated; it's a huge waste of money for 25%, and then we'll need to put one along the Canadian border, too. Many immigrants fly there, and enter that way. I personally have known many illegal immigrants, and only 2 came via the Mexican border. Most overstay visas; or have fake documents. Even though I support immigration, I'm willing to understand border control and limiting immigration, but I am 100% against a wall. If you want to talk real immigration crackdown, let's talk cracking down on the businesses and industries who hire, pay and even recruit illegal immigrants (like the poultry industry, in my hometown), and who violate visas like the H1B, which many hotels use for service workers (it's supposed to be for highly qualified workers in a specific field). And let's talk about businesses that need migrant workers being able to cut down on their paperwork if they want to do it all the legal way. This WALL is just a rally cry for people who don't like immigrants and don't truly understand how it actually works, and will be a win for Trump; a pointless, divisive, waste of money. NO WALL, Democrats. So glad they took this off the table--keep it off.
10
Finally, someone is drawing the line at that insane plan.
7
So here's the short version of the story. The president ended DACA, with six months for Congress to come up with a substitute. Now the president says no wall, no DACA. Republican leaders in Congress have said no president, no deal.
What exactly was the emergency that needs DACA to be shut down? None that I can see. If it was unconstitutionally enacted (which ok, maybe it was), then make a new one correctly, through Congress, and THEN shut down the executive order based DACA. Any fool knows that for any kind of system, you don't shut down the old thing until the new thing's ready. Unless it's on fire, which this wasn't. (Aside: if the dreamers pose a threat of some kind to our great country, then how the heck is a wall going to protect us from them? They're, like, here already?!?)
This is political hostage taking, plain and simple. The Republicans want their wall and a whole lot else, and if they have to threaten vulnerable populations to get it, that's what they'll do. When they came for the dreamers, I didn't stand up, because I am not a dreamer ...
6
We would be far better off as a nation spending $18 Billion to house and feed the homeless.
12
If there is anything humorous in this (hard to imagine), it is that there already is a wall. So many of the stories on this talk like the wall is some new thing. The reporting on this mystifies me. Clinton and Obama both were big proponents of border protection. Now there is hysteria over a wall. I personally think that the money would be better spent on things other than a wall. With a better ID system and enforcement against employers we can much more easily deal with this. But, my opinion aside, there has been a wall, there is a wall, and there will be a wall. Just travel in the Southwest and head south. You will hit a wall.
9
Mr Trump says, "if there is no wall, there is no DACA." The President has no problem with extracting 800,000 people from their homes, and expelling them from the country. Specifically eight-hundred thousand, law abiding, productive, brave brothers and sisters, the future of America, exactly the kind of people we need. Everyone would lose. Why? He wants to cut off our nose to spite our face and he understands that is precisely the reason his voters installed him, to do damage. He is the Punisher of the United States of America. Republicans are willing to swallow poison themselves if it means they can hurt their opponents. They'd scuttle the ship of state with their own kids on it.
3
There is no Nation without a border. While a physical wall might be debatable, border security should not be negotiable. Drones, enhanced patrolling, technological surveillance should be the modern equivalent of a wall.Condoning illegal "immigration" while keeping the border open should have obvious consequences to even the most naive.
4
I believe the vast majority of Americans agree that national security is important and that protecting our borders is an essential element of that. If we could elevate that conversation to that shared interest and stop focusing so exclusively on the wall, I am confident we would find that we agree more than we disagree. Just like we do on DACA.
5
The wall is symbolic to most of the rank and file Democrats. The idea of it being there years after Trump has gone is appalling to most I'm sure. That it was ever on the table seems unimaginable.
2
Sure it is!!! Without funding for the barrier and other required improvements on enforcing current immigration laws there won't be any solution to DACA. So yes it is off the table, it was never there. And just tax money being sent back to every home country to pay for these needed improvements, fine everyone who over stays their visa without a great reason, plenty of ways to pay for improvements if congress would pass laws.
3
no irony in Ted Cruz's insistence on border security? He wants to pull the ladder up behind him, huh?
5
Oh, no one is talking about amnesty for illegals! Its MERCY for those who are here because they had no choice. They didn't choose to come here, and they never even knew they were breaking our laws! Cleanse the word "amnesty" out of the discussion. Amnesty is an official pardon for people who have made what some would call political mistakes, get the old dusty dictionary out if needed.
Mercy and Amnesty are two different things!
10
mouseone: Mercy for a particular group that forsakes the needs of millions who you pledged with your hand on a bible to protect and serve,is immoral and makes no sense. Smack dab in the middle of a virulent flu season where hundreds could die because the CDC would have to close. All this, to impress a certain group to win their votes in an election. You cannot go lower than that.
4
No wall, Chuck? Let the deportations commence then.
8
OK so NOTHING for "Dreamers" then. Start deporting. We Must have a "wall", we must have an end to chain migration and migration lotteries...WE MUST GET A HANDLE ON IMMIGRATION or we'll just have more and more crops of "Dreamers" as our country degrades into a Balkanized version of itself.
11
We should have secured the Canadian border better and not let in Ted Cruz.
19
Instead of drawing stupid red lines, both parties should try to find out from their constituents what it is that the American people think is a just immigration policy. Enact those laws. Enforce those laws. Determine which current immigrants should be allowed to stay. There is so much room for reasonable compromise in here. Why is that so hard? Why can't we put human lives, both citizen and immigrant, ahead of party politics? Our politicians are using immigrants as both weapons and shields. It's abhorrent.
6
Aaaahhhh, The Wall. "Mexico will pay for it," he said. Mexico's president said, "No way." The Republican Party "leadership" insists on kissing up to the boy-king who admires the worlds' autocrats more than our partners in democracy.
Sen. Chuck Schumer now knows that Trump cannot keep his word about anything. He is combustible, erratic, thuggish fraud. His business "successes" were built on business fraud, not paying his bills and suing anyone seeking their pay via the court system. So why would Schumer trust Donald Trump to live up to his word?
Meanwhile, the Republican Party and its RNC have spent nearly 30 years creating the mess we are in today. From the earliest days of New Gingrich, the former Party of Lincoln has demonized the loyal opposition describing Democrats as traitors, treasonous and unpatriotic simply because they were told to so by the newly minted ultra-conservative media gasbags such as Ann Coulter, Limbaugh, Beck, Jones, and the Fox Noise Machine. They fired up an angry mob of conservatives who even attended town hall meetings with guns on their hips or slung over their shoulders. This became the Republican Party that created the self-absorbed power mongers like Gingrich, McConnell, Ryan, and others along the way.
Which takes us back to why Sen. Schumer should never trust the promises from McConnell or Trump. Abe Lincoln is rolling in his grave as these miscreants throw the Constitution through the paper shredder like so much junk mail.
Go Chuck!
9
Then Daca is dead too, wooooohoooooo!
5
The Dems only support open borders in the hopes of recruiting more Undocumented Democrats. Their willingness to overwhelm our society for votes is unconscionable.
7
You're right.
The Democratic Party cares more about the DACA cohort than they do their own lower income citizens and legal residents.
3
Not exactly. I️ support better border security, but I️ know that a wall won’t do it....people will find ways over it, under it and around it.
People have to be desperate to leave their countries, cultures, families and homes behind to take the risk to come here....and desperate people will find ways to breach a wall.
I️ can support reasonable immigration reform. Throwing out the Dreamers isn’t reasonable. Building a wall isn’t reasonable.
3
It is a real mistake to have to bribe the president do do the right thing by offering tax-payers money to build a wall which is the wrong thing to do. I think that it is risky but strategic to try for DACA, but if the president will not support it
(even if he really wants it,but is too scared of his base to ignore Steve Millar etc) then let him take the enormous negative fallout of truckloads of deported Americans heading for Tijuana.
1
6 years for CHIP.
Keep up the good work, Schumer. 3 weeks at a time, if that's what it takes. If anything, the GOP have proven to be excellent mentors at political guerilla warfare...
4
It's time for the Republicans to openly vote against DACA. I hope Schumer MAKES them vote against DACA. Buckle your seat belts, it's the way to go.
9
It's called "negotiations", folks, and the Great (in only his eyes) Negotiator blew it.
He had what he wanted (or at least something he could use) on the table and refused it!!
Then the other side, having gained advantage (CHIP taken care of for 6 years and a hard promise for the Senate to fairly debate DACA within a 16 day period or back to Shutdown with the military against further CR's), now changes its offer.
So carry on Great Negotiator*, let's see your stuff.
Best that offer with one of your own. He's kinda got you over a barrel and it was your own fault. You had the deal,
You blew it. Why? Because you are not in completely in charge, you have to deal with Congress. That's the way our Founders dealt with the likes of folks like you (and King George III).
7
Fund the wall? I thought Mexico is funding the wall?!
4
Just finished trevor Noah's "Born a Crime", titled that because he was of mixed "race." Apartheid forbid relationships with people that South Africa saw as of different "races" and made those relations and their result illegal. How much like South African Apartheid we are in our handling of DACA. These people are not illegal any more than Trevor Noah was. How sad, petty, and unfair we have become.
2
I read that a few months ago. Fantastic book that made me think about the situation here.
2
Why is the Trump administration asking Congress for $18 billion to fund the wall? Mexico is paying for it! /sarcasm/
4
Oh let them have their stupid wall if it gets a deal for DACA. It’s a big waste of money, and you can make that point in the future when you need some leverage.
2
We all know the wall is stupid - a multi-billion dollar monument to stupidity and posturing - which as even Trump acknowledged, is defeated with a $10 ladder and rope to go down the other side. Or a tunnel. Or a boat. Or driving in as a tourist.........
It was worth it to throw in as a bargaining chip to get everything else we want, but for anything less - it's both stupid AND expensive - another way to 'bleed the beast' and make sure we can't actually do anything to support children, the poor, the sick, the elderly and other groups the GOP sees as mostly useless.
5
If Schumer keeps shooting himself in the foot on a daily basis, he will run out of toes next Tuesday.
3
You heard it here. He will give in. In some way, whatever that is, the Wall will be funded. Right now he is lying to appease his liberal base. As politicians, neither party has the moral high ground. They both act tough, do nothing and take their constituencies for granted. Democrats react with hysteria to Trump and will hurl charges of racism at every opportunity. But what have they done to improve not only the lives, but the future outlook for minorities- particularly blacks and Hispanics- nothing, absolutely nothing.
Poverty , discrimination, squalor, poor education remain rampant in inner cities.
The plight of minority residents is ignored. Democrats are racist by taking advantage of minority voters, acting as if they care, then abandoning any meaningful effort to really help people. Their hypocrisy and exploitation of minorities is as disgraceful and unforgivable as the words of Republicans. At least I know where Republicans stand.
I only wish someday we would all stay home and leave both parties with no votes. Our electoral silence might be the loudest cry heard around the country.
3
Trump can have as much wall as he can get Mexico to pay for.
That was the deal!
Zero American taxpayer dollars for Trumps Wall!!
11
If the border wall is off the table then so is DACA talks.
7
No wall=no DACA. Kudos to President Trump for working his magic in getting done what he was elected to do- yes, get rid of DACA.
8
I could never understand how Schumer could agree to a border wall. It's possible that he always meant to repudiate the deal once the government went back to work. A bit Machiavellian, but that's whats called for when you're dealing with Trump.
3
I must confess to being of two minds on the whole DACA, let them stay, issue. While it's perfectly reasonable to extend a measure of understanding and generosity on the part of young people who've only known life in America, the reality of it is that, yes, they are here illegally. The fact they were brougt to America as children and are not themselves guilty of illegally entering the country, is yes, BESIDES the point. THeir guardians made the choice to illegally bring them into the country, and made them criminals when they did so.
Should exeptions be made? Of course. However to call Democrats in COngress traitors or to threaten to withdraw support at the ballot box if they do not go to the wall to keep people who are in America illegally is the height of absurdity. I know many individuals who did in fact enter the US illegally, and in time gained residency or citizenship. However the only party that has consistently enbraced the cause of illegal aliens for decades has been the Democrat party. How well did it work out last November when progressives decided to 'punish' the Democratic Party, for 'stealing' the nomination from their socialist champion-of-the-month, and his 40 plus year career political climb to the nomination of a party he wasn't even a member of?
Had Hillary won, guess what? All those DACA kids would have had nothing to worry about.
1
Everyone who lives near the border's current wall knows it only takes two men and a few seconds for one to be boosted over the wall. They both run; witnesses, if any, are not able to identify them. It is not humanly possible to watch every foot of a wall across the southern border. This doesn't even address the tunnels, drones, and travel by air and water.
Putting more money into a wall is the height of stupidity, naivety, ignorance and bigotry. Of course, this is perfect for the base supporters of Republicans.
And what are you going to do about people who overstay their visas (which is how most illegal immigrants get to the U.S.)?
5
Why not build a wall that is like that one part of the Great Wall of China where tourists can slide down the top of the wall to the bottom? The slide can be programmed to randomly route some would-be crossers back into Mexico or straight into the United States, with helpful ICE agents waiting to help persons enter legally, or, if unacceptable, catapult them back over the border? And demand that Russia pay $500 billion for the wall if it wants to use bots to monkey with our election process. Then use the money to buy a million cruise missiles to be shot into Pakistan as punishment for its government's years of knowingly sheltering Osama bin Laden. There! I have "solved" some challenging problems with utterly idiotic solutions. Can I be President?
1
Maybe the corporations who are getting a large tax break can fund the wall. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, eh? Then we can be assured of jobs being created by the tax break.
3
Bottom Line is Nobody wants the wall but Trump, not even republican senators they just have to pretend they want it because of Trump, I never recall republicans wanting one. Plus you just gave a tax cut, the country is going to be tight on money so why expend it in something useless most illegal immigration is from overstayed Visas, I think Immigration based on skills and merits is a better investment, so negotiate with that and improved visa application process and anything else but don’t negotiate on unnecessary things.
3
The wall is a Donald vanity project that has been conceived in xenophobic and racist ideology. He is only interested in having something built in his name to serve his ego. If Trump really cared about immigration and American security, he would also make mention of Europeans who come to the US and overstay their visas, as well as working to fix measures within the immigration system to enforce the law.
This Trump wall, which Americans never (ever) agreed to pay for, is a simpleton's idea of border security and will be a tragic waste of money. Schumer should take this wall 'idea' off of the table, and straight to the furnace.
4
Why can't Democrats ever get an effective message that sticks until election time? They continue with warm, fuzzy messages at the same time Trump's campaign is running graphic "Democrats will be complicit in murder" ads. If the DNC can't afford to hire professional marketing folks, hold a contest and let amateurs write some hard-hitting talking points for you.
2
I'm curious about the language used here: Why aren't Democrats who demand citizenship, no end to chain migration, and sanctuary cities and states, drivers' licenses for illegals immigrants called "hardliners"? Especially when the general American public -- remember them? -- opposes sanctuary cities and and chain migration? And supports merit-based immigration, which SJWs also oppose? How has such a small and radical movement captured a major political party and major media instititions?
Poor Schumer. His radicalized base is unappeasable. Demographically, what is the Democrat's goal on immigration? Given such rapid change in the country, what's the objective? Where are we going with this, and why has it become the new religion on the left? The question, whose answer is quite clear and voiced daily by SJWs, is never even asked.
8
conceptually, a "non-wall" type of border security is not going to work, simply because people will cross the border and when the border security if they get arrested, then will seek their day with an immigration judge which will take months and meanwhile they are let go until hearing. now, these folks, who are future dreamers will now head towards california or other sanctuary states, obtain legal driver's license and for all practical purposes will be legal in this country until the next "DACA" or Amnesty is announced. This cycle will keep on going, while legal applicants who have applied to come here legally, will have to wait years and years for their day for a conselor interview.
3
The same guy who said Mexico would pay for the wall also said he would repeal Obamacare and replace it with something "fantastic". Whose fantasy it might be to cut off health coverage for millions of poor people is anybody's guess, but if the Billionaires' Tax Cut is any indication it's not ordinary Americans. Getting Mexico to fund a medieval fortification for the 21st Century is also quite a fantasy.
5
Any continuation of DACA must include very strong measures -- both at the border and in the interior -- to insure both that illegal immigration is reduced to a very very small fraction of the current level and also that the very persons who supposedly were at fault for the supposed plight of the Dreamers -- namely their parents -- will never be able to gain any legal status.
10
When did Schumer and the Democrats offer to fully fund the wall in exchange for legalizing the Dreamers? That offer was never made. They offered a small, token amount of funding for the wall--that was it.
2
It boggles the mind that funding this absurd wall could even be considered by any politician with an iota of conscience or rationality. We cannot get financing to build desperately needed infrastructure in NYC and elsewhere (such as the Gateway tunnel to NYC) yet we are considering funding a ridiculous, uninformed, racist campaign promise (walled cities were known to be outmoded by the end of the Middle Ages!) that Trump promised Mexico would pay for in the first place. Funding it will just be a colossal waste and will allow Trump to save face when he should be called out on getting Mexico to pay for it. I support DACA but this should not be a bargaining chip!
2
This should be easy: Offer the wall in exchange for the Dreamers.
For one thing, that would leave the administration and its allies in Congress with the none-too-slam-dunk problem of actually designing and building the wall, which almost certainly would lead to its being built at most here and then.
For another thing -- and far more importantly, it would build some bipartisanship.
Gotta say ... Schemer is not impressing me. He strikes me as all-tactics, no-strategy. Not good.
1
I don't understand this bickering. This could easily be dealt with in a way that makes (almost) everyone happy:
First, the children who arrived here with their parents had no say in it. You go where your parents go. After growing up in this country and sometimes not even speaking the language of their country of origin, sending them back is simply asinine (then again, that adjective describes Trump quite well).
Second, why would we want to send away people who we have already educated and made productive members of our society? Those are exactly the ones we want to keep! We only want to send away the parasites who prey on us and our society.
Thus, why not agree on a proposal in which the dreamers are legally admitted and given provisional residency for 20 years after they have turned 18. If they continue to be productive and have not tangled with the law, they become permanent residents after that, with the normal path to citizenship open to them. If during those 20 years they choose a life in crime or living off welfare, residency is revoked and they are free to make their careers in their home countries.
That way, the US can only win. 1) We WANT productive people who work hard and contribute to society. 2) This solution gives us an effective way to weed out those who do not want to contribute to society. 3) Crime will actually go down, because there is now a strong incentive to live within the rules.
How about that?
2
It is poetic justice that our off the wall
president will hopefully never get his wall.
3
We badly need this wall.
Since 2009 the net flow of immigrants has been negative across the southern border. This has cost us money since illegal immigrants pay more in state and federal taxes than they receive back. They're more law abiding than American citizens and they work harder at jobs Americans do not want (roofing, restaurant work, general construction, room cleaning, farm work, gutting fish). Because they work for less and without benefits small business owners love them.
Illegal immigration fuels the economy and adds to the Treasury. Putting up the wall will keep illegal immigrants in our country where they belong.
2
The so-called president (as quoted in the article) twits, "Cryin’ Chuck Schumer fully understands, especially after his humiliating defeat, that if there is no Wall, there is no DACA."
Let's hope Don the Con fully understands, especially after his humiliating defeat (for surely no one, not even the liar-in-chief, believes there are "winners" in this debacle), that without DACA and CHIP, there is no possibility of his "big, beautiful wall", not even the one he repeatedly promised Mexico would pay for. Let's hope there are at least 51 Senators who fully understand this, too.
1
The White House announced earlier this afternoon it will send an “immigration framework” to Congress on Monday. White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the framework “represents a compromise that members of both parties can support.” She added, “We encourage the Senate to bring it to the floor." On Monday, Senate Republicans and Senate Democrats pledged not to use parliamentary procedures to block immigration bill. This means neither side can mount a filibuster to block a vote on the bill. Only 51 votes –not 60 votes—would be needed to pass the bill, with the vice president casting a tiebreaking voted if necessary. The Senate should be able to vote on the compromise bill within a few days
2
Donald Trump promised to build a big beautiful wall that would be paid for by Mexico. Unlike his secret tax returns, now is the time for President Trump to reveal this secret plan, put it into effect and start building the wall. What could be simpler? To paraphrase the Trump commercials, every day that Donald does not build his Mexican financed wall is another day when he is responsible for all sorts of criminal activities by illegal aliens, including working at posh Florida resorts.
4
Shame on you Chuck Schumer for even putting the border wall 'on the table' to begin with. How could you in good conscience think that was even remotely a good idea?
1
The border wall is off the table because it is off the wall.
1
Schumer is just acting according to plan and doing just fine. Trump will have to threaten to shut the government down over his wall, not over DACA. He won't take half a loaf. He's boxed in.
If he is offered 25% of his demand for border security, but no wall, what does he do? CHIP is off the table, so what is Trump's leverage? 100% taxpayer funding for 100% of Trump's demand is a dead end.
I agree with Schumer's take that that there will be a vote on DACA in the Senate and he will have the votes to get a bill passed. This will come down to Trump and the likes of Mark Meadows demanding a shutdown over the wall, with the Dreamers the only hostage left. Not a good place to be.
4
The deferred action for childhood arrivals should not be deferred any longer: they are as much citizens as those who arrived via the U.S. birth canals and should be accorded their rightful status as American citizens.
2
Now we are playing politics like the last
60 years, nasty, full of cost overruns, but American politics.
Do we trust this? No, we don't. Schumer is playing at playing Trump, but no one can do that, unless they are a borderline personality, which Schumer is probably not. In the end, DEMS will give in on the wall, and DACA people will probably get maybe 5 years to get out of the US. DEMS need to take back the presidency in 2020 to fix DACA for good, and the rest of the massive mess Trump has made out of our government.
1
This is clearly a reaction to the widespread perception, among both Democrats and Republicans, that the Democrats in the Senate "caved" by voting to end the shutdown. Senator Schumer understood that he was risking a leadership challenge by not taking a stronger stance in advance of the February 8 deadline. Personally, I think that getting 6 more years of CHIP funding was a very good outcome. But in terms of immigration policy, we'll have to see if this gets Democrats a better deal. Of course, this being Washington, D.C., no one will make any serious proposals until February 5 at the earliest.
4
Climate change will make us tolerate of immigrants or turn over our Constitution and values to these hateful groups now. We need a comprehensive and painful immigration policy and understand that we need to tweak it every 5 years because of the variable weather patterns. This will include internal migration between the Midwest, Florida and coastal regions. People will be on the move. We will not be able to stop it but with "good" policy in place we can manage it. DACA immigrants are a drop in the bucket to what we can expect. Sit down and realize the future is coming and we need leaders to implement plans now. Too bad we don't have any. Are we there yet?
Senator Chuck Schumer cannot get beyond his major ego and personal dislike for the Donald Trump. He is sacrificing the best interests of his nation, constituents and Dreamers to fight a personal fight. The Democrats in the Senate would be wise to elect a new Minority leader not burdened with Schumer's biases and baggage.
3
Americans would be wise to elect a president not burdened with biases and baggage...
5
Trump had his chance and he blew it.
If there's another government shutdown it will be because he doesn't get his stupid wall. That will play well to the knuckle-dragging Neanderthals ... not so well to the remainder of the country. This puts Dems in a much better position than they were over the weekend.
3
It's very tempting to just say, "Why not just throw away another $15-25 billion of tax payer money for the senseless wall to save 800,000 real lives."
After all, we've just thrown away $1.5 trillion over 10 years for the senseless enrichment of the riches called tax reform.
Yet, I can't stop thinking what I will become when I give my support to a deal with the devil - the devil who heartlessly took away the rights and livelihoods of the Dreamers and now blackmailing for money to simply restore what he simply took away.
Would I become an accomplice? Is that moral? But I want to help save 800,000 lives.
Or, should I just stop thinking? But then, that takes me back to thinking again, "Isn't that what Trump wants us thinkers to do to drive forward his immoral agendas?"
5
Please keep firmly in mind, when trying to discern any patterns of rationality in Trump’s mind that DACA was created by Barack Obama. Everything else — the wall, chain migration, the visa lottery, all of it — is just so much noise and distraction added to the mix to help shield Trump’s true intent: to destroy everything achieved by the Obama Administration.
Trump is out for revenge, and he won’t be sated until the memory of Obama is obliterated, no matter the cost to lives or American standing in the world.
4
Climate change is hapening faster than expected. If the whiplash balancing scenario happens - disruption of the ocean currents leading to a new ice age - we may find ourselves begging at Mexico's door. How ironic if we're kept out of Mexico by a wall...
3
A wall worth building might be one separating our citizenry from the POTUS's tweets, so that we can focus our attention where it belongs, on the systematic dismantling of our consumer and environmental protections.
2
The vast majority of Americans think it would cruel to deport people who have never known the country of their birth. The Democrats clearly are standing ready to pass a law protecting them. The Republicans clearly are bent on cruelly deporting them. Since the Republicans run the government, the political solution is the ballot box in November 2018.
I'm sorry that the Dreamers are facing the consequences of the 2016 election (and the 2010 election which gave us our congressional maps), but these consequences should have been apparent to anyone paying even half the attention that is the duty of an adult citizen in a democratic nation. Americans have a duty to responsibly inform them on civic issues and to vote; it's what my ancestors died for. If Americans would do their duty rather than grouse, we wouldn't be in this pickle.
If you can't be bothered to get informed and vote your conscience, you don't deserve to be a citizen in a democracy. Keep it up, and you won't be.
6
Why are some so determined to find a defeat in the jaws of victory?
Democrats won this one. We won HUGE.
- We are the minority party in both houses. We don't have the President - and yet....
- We got 6 years of CHIP funding. Massive win. Not only for all of the children this saves, but also because this was a Republican blackmail chip - they'd throw it into bills and dare us to vote against helping the children.
- We got the government back up and running in a short timeframe - and accomplished a goal the vast majority of American voters wanted to have done. No weeks of shutdown, government employees and citizens losing paychecks and benefits.
- We got a promise to actually vote on an issue that does have bipartisan support in both House and Senate - DACA/Dreamers. Now, while Republicans have proven ridiculously untrustworthy and who knows what direction Trump's Magic 8 ball will point in next - we have a 'trump' card here.....
We only let them have 3 weeks. All of that - for 3 weeks. They gave us 6 years and a promise for 3 weeks, and that 3 weeks means we can force them to honor their promise.
And yeah, as honorable people, Schumer put up every possible method of solving the problem - funding the wall - up for bargaining, in an effort to help our country. And now, since we have the better position, he's taken it back down, making it clear it was a last resort only. This is GOOD. Why are some Democrats so determined to tear ourselves apart over our own victory?
8
I can’t believe our Supreme Court would rule against DACA. Can you just imagine the backlash when 800,000 young people are escorted out of the country? This will be Trump’s Trail of Tears. These poor souls need to seek out real Americans to harbor them from this animal and his backstabbing Republican friends. Mr. Stever please create a DACA underground to protect them until 2018!
1
Please. DACA was created by Executive fiat. Whether you think it was a good idea or not, what one Executive giveth, the other Executive taketh away.
And as far as the hyperbole of a backlash when "800,000 young people are escorted out of the country", given the backlogs in Immigration Courts, that won't happen for a long time.
2
who care about the wall? the federal government has wasted billions before and always waste billions. it's DACA that should be off the table.
1
If Shutdown Schumer says the Wall is off the table, then I want DACA off the table. Kick them all out and let them apply like every other immigrants has done. We don't need more democrats disguised as sympathetic children. Illegal immigrants are still ILLEGAL any way you want to look at it. Either change the law through the legislative process. I am fine with the so-called children of immigrants staying in the United State, if and only if, the law is changed to allow for such an exception to Existing law. the Executive Order by Mr. Obama was totally wrong as it is Congress who has jurisdiction over immigration law.
the United States is a nation of laws, and when the laws are not enforced, we are on a slippery slope of which other laws should be suspended of benefit of the friends or political allies of the people in power.
The Representative Republic form of government is a safe guard for democracy, but only if all the laws are enforced, or changed through the legislative process if the laws are no longer in the best interest of the people of United States.
DACA without chain migration is what most people support, but border security is also something most people want to prevent future generations of children of ILLEGAL immigrants from needing exceptions to the law. Charlie Schumer intentionally refuses to acknowledge these immigration policies because he places the need to bring more democrat voters into the United States over the need to keep the United States safe
7
And they will through reimbursements and tariffs. What's your point? Oh, you have none. You just thought you would say something because you have nothing else to say.
Let's be real, in order for DACA to be legislated their will be a wall and other ways in which we will secure our borders and have reasonable immigration restrictions. In particular favoring those that can contribute and assimilate to America. I believe there is pretty clear consensus on this with the American people.
2
Why would anyone be surprised (or feign being surprised) that the wall is off the table? Schumer went to Trump and offered Trump exactly what he wanted, in exchange for DACA. Instead of realizing that his bluff was being called, Trump changed course and opted to play to his "base". When an offer is rejected, it's gone, and we have a CR with no wall and no DACA, which is what Trump said he wanted. The Republicans' victim act is not credible.
1
“Cryin’ Chuck Schumer fully understands, especially after his humiliating defeat, that if there is no Wall, there is no DACA.”
Words from the Child in the Whitehouse, Dumpy Trump. Very helpful, very constructive. Yes Senator Schumer is humiliated, I'm humiliated, the whole nation is humiliated by this aberration in office.
Mr. Graham said he had a message for the administration. “To my friends at the White House: You’ve been all over the board,” he said. “You haven’t been a reliable partner, and the Senate is going to move. Please be constructive as we go forward. If you’ve got any ideas, let us know, but the Senate is going to lead on this issue."
Gee, this guy could have been the Republican's candidate--someone sane, with whom one can disagree without disparaging, who will reciprocate in kind, and with whom one can seek and sometimes find common ground.
I hope the bi-partisan group of grownups in the Senate can take charge. We appreciate your efforts!
1
Just let them vote. The far left and far right can vote no. Hopefully the middle is a majority of the house and 60 votes in the Senate. Let's let every member of Congress show there districts and states where they stand.
Rather than renege on discussions about the Border Wall, congressional Democrats should simply have rebranded it Trump's Walls.
The bill would pass easily. And Trump would finally be where he is meant to be: in solitary confinement.
1
Total federal funding for CHIP in 2016: approximately $14.5 billion.
Cost of border wall: $25 billion.
Priorities?
2
I just got back from volunteering in my daughter's 4th grade class. The students wrote poems about their favorite memory. This one made me cry:
My Favorite Memory
My favorite memory was when I came
To the United States, but it wasn't by plane
We walked through the night til we came to a wall
I climbed up and up but I was afraid I might fall
I was scared, but excited at the same time
I knew that my fate would depend on this climb
When I got to the top, I realized how high
I was from the ground, and thought I might cry
I slid down the wall into my dad's arm
And suddenly I knew that I was safe from all harm
I looked up and saw that big flag wave
I was in the land of the free, the home of the brave
2
Schumer really does not get it. It is not Trumps Border wall but rather a Border Wall that over half of the American public wants. Until Schumer understands this concept he will continue to fail. Also found his Jello comment amusing. How many times does he think he will win a one on one negotiation with Trump.
2
RCS,
Concerning your question, "How many times does [Schumer] think he will win a one on one negotiation with Trump[?]"
The answer -- as we all know -- is that Schumer (nor anyone else of normal mind) will ever win a one-on-one negotiation with prez. The reason: Trumpty Dumpty doesn't know how to negotiate.
P.S.: I, for one, like Jello. That is, except for the times I have to look at Trumpty Dumpty's roly-poly gut.
1
The cost for the wall pales in comparison to budgetary sacred cow, The Defense. Dems might as well give in on Trump's Wall, if that's going to simplify things. The Wall itself would have no impact on immigration. I am confident that construction would be an exercise in corruption and inefficiency, but should provide pay for US workers (all the contractors should be American, sourced materials too). Later on the Wall would be used by graffiti and other artists, as well as photographers and amateur movie directors. Fun for all.
I hear that DOJ will have ICE at all polling places in the next election to catch voters that are not citizens and deport them right on the spot. We know this will be a big deal as the 2018 election gets closer. Especially in Western States like California, Washington and possible in New York and Virginia. Hey of your legal then no worries, right?
2
Americans on the right just don't get it. They are blinded by the light. They do not care about facts of the matter. All they care about is what they believe.
Here's a deal any Democrat, let alone Senator Schumer, should offer Trump: We'll authorize your wall, as big and as long as you want it, and and all the border security you want, and fund it with $10 for every gun that is turned in to law enforcement collection sites. "The more guns, the more funds." That's the slogan I am authoring right now. Let Trump's base, and others who want this so-called protection, put their guns where their mouth is (well, figuratively) and pony over the massive amount of guns in this country, the case being that with this added security we won't need so many guns. "The more guns, the more funds." Let's get started!
1
It was never on the table. $18 billion, 3rd century solution for a 21st century problem.
2
Really, no one knows what the President wants? Border wall funding, end to chain migration, end of the visa lottery program in exchange for the DACA amnesty. Pretty simple.
3
Maybe Schumer has been smarter than we think. He put forward all that money for the wall in the earlier plan that they rejected, so he was right to pull the offer. Now exactly how many Republicans, in or out of the Congress love the big expensive wall enough to insist that the taxpayers pay for it.
Make the Republicans justify the quick turn from Trump's blathering about Mexico paying for the wall to it now being the American taxpayers who are to pay. Do the Trump voters and the Congressional Republicans really hate and fear immigrants enough to get out front to pledge billions of dollars of U. S. taxpayer money?
Maybe Cruz and a few others, but enough to pass it if the Democrats make a big enough stink about the cost and who is paying? Why was it even ON the table as an American project?!
Glad to see the Democrats develop a spine. DACA should never be tied to paying for "the wall". What happened to Trump's dealmaking skills? Wasn't Mexico supposed to pay for his wall?
1
Schumer reneged on a cave-in. Late but better than nothing.
2
Trump killed the compromise that the Senate offered by shi...holing the debate and revealed just how extreme Trump and his boot licks are when it comes to race. The world heard Trump and believed Durbin. Republicans announced that they will lie no matter what to keep Trump in office and the world recognized it and acted accordingly. The Trump provoked shutdown successfully evoked a further racist xenophobic response in the GOP commercial (https://youtu.be/Teur9Re-twY) which shows the whole world that Trump and the GOP hate Hispanic immigrants.
No Wall! Schumer has told the world that he and the Democratic Party will not fund any stupid Wall. Trump knows that his base needs a wall and is likely to explode in rage over this principled stand. When he does, America and the rest of the world will see how very dangerous Trump is.
16
Is the political discussion mixing immigration with refugee issues because if it is, they are two separate matters. Check out the Canadian government's approach to both - https://www.canada.ca/en/services/immigration-citizenship.html and https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/refug... .
Regarding DACA this seems to be a legacy issue which is best handled by an amnesty.
5
The wall is symbolic like everyone keeps saying. Everyone knows it.
About the wall's cost & Schumer's "cave", there's a difference between authorizing & appropriation. Only a down payment was guaranteed --maybe 10% was authorized?. Maybe $1-2B tops? Who knows if the rest will ever come to pass.
Yes, the wall is stupid, ineffectual, racist or whatever but if you really care about the Dreamers, this is an easy give. Any of you go to https://dreamact.info/? A forum, for a lot of Dreamers. From what I can tell, they can't stand the United We Dream faction and they are quite alright with a wall & maybe even paying for it.
The real fight is about not giving up draconian cuts to legal immigration using this issue as a cudgel. To all of those disappointed in the Dems for caving, I don't really see any strategy being offered other than "get it done". How do you see that actually happening? If you shut down over DACA and keep it going, you really think that would play well? 1/2 the US would immediately flip (Repubs) and I would bet 1/2 of your fellow Dems would gradually as well. If you want Dems to make a stand, pick an issue that resonates with more Americans & the let the Repubs hang themselves on the DACA issue. Trump said he would fix it and so let him!
Moral outrage =/= a winning strategy. Moral outrage w/o strategy is virtue signaling.
I don't love Chuck but I think he's being as deft as possible here with the hand he's been dealt.
15
Maybe Democrats could negotiate a deal where Mexico/American taxpayers build Trump a pyramid instead of a wall -- the greatest pyramid in the history of pyramids, greater than that of Cheops!
It's 1-2B better spent elsewhere. Oh, that's right! Trump is going to make Mexico pay for it! Silly me.
1
On the issue of DACA-Dreamers. Imagine you've lived in the same apartment for 23 years. The building got sold and new owners moved in. The new owners want to turn all the apartments into condominiums.
For years there were rumours the building was going to change hands and everyone would be evicted. Does the new landlord bang on your door demanding you vacate the premises the day after the mortgage was transfered? Not a chance.
The land lord issues a lease termination and you have 30-60-90 days to pack up 23 years of stuff and leave. Your residence is spotless and of course you want your security deposit back. Isn't the return of your security deposit, upon inspection of the aprtment required under our common law?
Would that be irrelevant because the apartment is going to be gutted? Yes.
Well, within every paycheck of everyone working in USA there is a built-in contribution to their security deposity. We call it Social Security.
The Daca - Dreamers are entitled to their Security Deposit and cannot be forced into 'No Man's Land' without their Social Security deposit. We need an instant website: DACADATA.com for the Dreamers to voluntarily tabulate all the assets these believer-dreamers whose belief and trust was / is always in our / their Statue of Liberty have coming.
2
That's entirely the wrong metaphor.
"Dreamers" never had a right to be in the "apartment building" in the first place. They signed no lease and provided no security deposit. They moved in and set up shop without any contract. They are akin to squatters that the previous owner didn't bother ejecting.
Now that there is a new owner he wants to know why all these illegal residents are in his apartment building and when are they leaving. It might be worth it to the landlord to allow the squatters to stay provided they sign leases, pay rent and agree to live by the same rules as other tenants. But it might not be. And other tenants, who were paying rent all along, might cheer the eviction of those who got the benefits of living in the apartment building but paid no rent.
6
Immigration Progress Unravels - yeah, now go home!
4
Why on earth would Dems have even OFFERED this in the first place? Or was it understood by Dems to simply be a gesture which they never intended to actually come to fruition?
In this day and age of technology, the idea of a physical wall is utterly ridiculous. And that's not even getting into the fundamental rationale itself, for such a wall. Constructing such a wall is a massive undertaking and cost, and a waste of US taxpayer dollars. It will solve nothing, and goes against EVERYTHING that the US stands for. We are supposed to be a place of refuge and opportunity for anyone who wants to come here....for anyone seeking a better life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzA48-UGCJg&t=129s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ouz_NO6xChQ&t=20s
3
It's a compromise.
Yep, it's stupid. Massively stupid and useless.
But - if agreeing to fund it would lead to an equally massive pile of good - might be worth it.
"Immigration Progress"
A new term to be added to the oxymoron list.
Schumer's dream is lot's of illegal Democratic voters.
15
Since when do illegals vote? Trump's commission found no evidence of voting fraud and was disbanded. Why wouldn't a new citizen vote Repub; they're such nice, honest people.
I wonder if Schumer's "red line" deserves the mockery that Obama's red lines earned.
8
No worries. Mexico is going to pick up the tab.
5
The Democrats have no interest in protecting America’s southern border. Absolutely none at all. They prefer a porous border through which people may enter illegally. Not just Mexicans and other Central Americans but people from nations wishing to harm America. The Democrats are not interested in national security. That raising the question, “What are Democrats interested in?” If they are not interested in protecting America, then they must be interested in the opposite of protection: destruction, insecurity, attack, harm, injury. Feel free to pick your antonym, because that is what the Democrats are doing! Thank you.
18
Obama did better protecting us and deporting illegals than most Republican presidents. You've got lots of rhetoric, but no facts. The facts show an entirely different world.
I'm not with the Democrats, BTW - I very much oppose illegal immigration and any form of amnesty - but the Republicans are horrible about this as well. Republican policies want all the cheap labor to come in, no prosecuting their business buddies, but lets make sure they've got no rights and we can scapegoat them for all of the problems we aren't solving.
1
In which we are reminded that much of the problem with getting problems solved is crazy people.
Hey Rural, Perhaps get out of rural tennessee and read a little. The Democrats want to hurt America- really? It boggels the mind that you can even voice these comments and then believe them. You do understand that anyone who came in to "hurt America" was either a.) Already here as a citizen for a long time
b.) Came in a plane from another country to our east - not south
So what would the wall have accomplished in any of these cases - nothing, zero. We have 96000 linear miles of border including coastlines. Boats, cars, trains planes, feet - all are methods of access . As an experiment, build a wall in front of your house but leave three sides open - same difference.
If there is no wall the result will be similar to the amnesty of the '80s with a ever larger influx of illegal crossings. Democrats realize their future is dependant on a needy underclass receiving trinkets and baubles in exchange for votes as is the case in some urban areas and in the progressive paradise of Venezuela.
13
The wall won't do anything about crossings. A Republican who wanted to stop illegal immigration would be in favor of mandated eVerify - notice how almost none of them bring that up, and it's not brought up to a vote?
Illegal immigration actually does have an easy solution that would reduce it by half or far more - and it's cheap - funny how no one wants to bring it to a vote. But the wall? A multi-billion dollar status symbol that is worthless. As Trump himself said - it's defeated by a ladder on one side, and a rope down the other. We spend billions, they spend $10, and get in. It's a monument to stupidity.
Wait, I thought Mexico is going to pay for the wall.
10
When will someone point out that there already is a wall on every part of the boarder where a wall can be built!?!?! Has our president ever been to the boarder? There's a huge wall there already! Where is he going to build this wall? In the middle of the Rio Grande? Talk of this wall is ridiculous. Why do we let this President keep telling us things that are so demonstrably false. I want the NY Times to start publishing pictures of the existing border wall on every story like this in the future.
14
Regardless of where the wall already exists or NYTimes pictures, the border is porous. It’s what the illegal crossing is all about. Why is this lost on the Democrats?
1
Schumer is all bark and no bite.
2
As a NYC Democrat I agree. He is also a co-architect of that ridiculous Diversity Green Card lottery.
2
Shrewd, Schumy. Real shrewd.
2
Most terrorist acts on American soil are perpetrated by native neo-Nazi and other rightwing groups. If Trump and his Republicans were serious about protecting the safety of Americans, where should their priority be?
Guns kill more than 30,000 American citizens every year. If the Trump Republicans really want to protect the safety of American citizens, where should they begin?
19
There will be no sensible gun safety legislation until Republicans are swept from office nationwide. They owe their political lives to the NRA, the arms industry, and alt-right shills of those constituents. They have no soul, no heart, no interest. Sad.
Drunk drivers which kill more than anything in the US. No one ever talks about car-control or getting more cars out of the hands of....
No wall?
How about a law ?
Only those BORN in the USA could vote.
Liberals would pay for the wall to prevent that law !
8
Sorry. You'd need a constitutional amendment. Good luck with that.
Hey Joe, even better, how about a law that says only American citizens can vote.
People who pay taxes taht fund the government. Oh yeah, its already on the books.....
Better yet, citizenship only those born to current US citizens. Eliminate tourist citizen births by people from China and Russia. Future spies who will abuse their citizenship rights in service to their real home countries. Bah.
1
No wall, no DACA....next
14
Schumer and the Democrats should agree to the "Wistful" Wall at our Southern Border (why only there perchance?) for DACA, as long as Mexico pays for it.
Good luck DJT! The wall is now in your court.
2
I say the American public should fund a Wall. A Wall around Washington DC with all the politicians trapped inside and don't let them out until they start acting like rational adults. The behavior we have been witnessing for the past twenty, thirty years just makes me want to vomit. Grow up DC!
11
OR we could just quit voting for these two corrupt parties who do nothing but work to get re-elected. Every aspect of this government shutdown was about how each party would look come November. No one in Washington wants to get anything real done because the other party would look good and have something to run on. So, they just block each other again and again and again never really dealing with anything other than their own elections.
Those greedy, lazy, egomaniacs are from everywhere EXCEPT Washington, DC. This is where they come to work. Build a wall around Kentucky next time McConnell is there and keep him there and that will be a start.
Not. One. Dime. For this stupid wall. An anti-American idea if there ever was one. If this stupid thing is ever built, then the Statue of Liberty should be torn down and used for scrap.
13
The only option is allowing DACAers to stay while massively enforcing border security/immigration policy so that more lawbreakers aren't rewarded in the future.
6
How is it that the reader only learns that the offer of wall funding was not freestanding but part of a suite of provisions in paragraph 22, long after characterization of Schumer's announcement as "reneging" in paragraph 3? This isn't just burying the lead, but twisting it and then putting the key point low enough in the article that most readers won't even see it.
8
A wall may stop Delusional Donny getting from point "A" to point "B" but it won't stop illegal immigration. Today most illegal immigrants enter the US via airports and simply overstay their visa. There are many more cost effective solutions to control people and contraband crossing our southern border. Spending billions of taxpayer dollars to buy Delusional Donny his Trophy Wall is beyond ridiculous. It is the height of incompetence and malfeasance. The Wall is a colossal White Elephant and a colossal waste of my hard earned money. Mexico won’t pay for it and neither should we.
15
His tweets are getting old
3
Perhaps a border hedgerow - with topiary depicting heroic progressive leaders at frequent intervals...
Our leaders get to evolve their thinking...
Sometimes, several times, during the wee AM hours...
Look at the dark side...If you'd let Trump build several miles of the thing. any and all of Cory, Elizabeth, Kamala, Kirsten, and - of course - Lindsey, without whom no earnest and widely-broadcast struggle for US political consensus would be complete, could be recorded excoriating Trump and saying things like...
(drumroll)
"Mr. Trump, tear down this wall"...
On an absolutely unrelated note - Tammy Duckworth, I knew of you, but didn't realize what an absolute hero you are, in so many senses of the word...
I got to sleep comfortably all my nights - because people like you were willing to forego that...
Thank you - bigly...
3
Republicans don't want immigrants here because they came here because we are a Democracy. The Republican Party, which has lately revealed it's true intention to undermine our Democracy, can't very well have people here who came for that very thing they are trying to destroy.
9
Illegal immigration undermines our democracy and system of laws. No other country in the world permits the kind of border crashing that the US does which doesn’t include those overstaying their visas.
1
Why won't the parents of the dreamers assume responsibility for having trafficked their foreign-born children into the United States? The only reason we are having this debate now is because of the unlawful actions these adults took years ago. People who traffic other people need to be arrested!
17
There is still another choice: end the tradition, not Constitutionally mandated, filibuster and then just start legislating with Cryin Chuck sitting back with his 49 votes.
Trump promised a wall to persuade many voters to vote for him. He promised that Mexico would pay for it to persuade others. If he's serious about keeping his word to voters he needs to keep BOTH promises, and he needs to do it at the same time.
Congress should certainly allocate more money for border security if there are 'gaps' (assuming there's any money available, but the tax cuts need a separate conversation). However, not all such 'gaps' are things a wall necessarily fixes. Leave how taxpayer money is spent up to the experts. Trump has no such qualifications. In fact, despite talking about this for the past two years, he's has yet to present any evidence for why a wall would fix any of our border issues.... unless you count, "he says so". His premise needs a little more validation if for building a wall to be money well spent.
As far as DACA children go, Congress should stop holding them as political hostages, act like caring human beings, and do the right thing for a change (allow them to become US citizens). Continually treating them as pawns in unrelated negotiations makes America look petty and foolish... certainly not something that could be mistaken for "Great".
5
Except native Indians, everyone here is an immigrant. Anyone opposed to giving Dreamers a pathway to citizenship should imagine the pain she/he would feel if she/he were at the mercy of those who came here before them.
If the Dreamers are forced to go back to countries they may have never known, the songs and praise about US's stance on Human Rights will be tarnished ... permanently.
Proceed with merit based immigration and other reforms going forward; leave the Dreamers alone.
14
It's a matter of legal vs. illegal. The dreams are illegal.
Trump's family immigrated here from Germany. Too bad we hadn't closed the door to German immigrants when we had the chance. Now it's too late. Look at what 'the Germans' have now done to the US.
1) Black Americans aren't immigrants.
2) Black Americans had to fight from day one to receive equal rights. We couldn't run away to other countries.
3) Dreamers have no right to be here. They are not US citizens. They should be sent back to their own country unless the Democrats want to make other changes to the immigration system. Hint-these changes will mean less immigration.
4) There are US citizens in Alabama suffering from hookworm. There are US citizens in Flint with lead in their water. There are US citizens in Appalachia suffering from cancer and black lung. But Democrats want to shut down the government over some pushy entitled foreign nationals? No thank you,
2
Someone (Senator Schumer?) should restate the data that shows that most (if not all) of the terrorist activity in this country - as well as "random" shootings and other acts of terror - have nothing to do with people crossing the U.S.-Mexican border into the U.S. It has to do with people already living in this country. Thus, the wall is a total ridiculous act and waste of money in terms of safety.
9
Let's pay Mexico to take our drug addicts, with charge backs for any who turn back up here. Then they will control the border to prevent the charge backs. Will also reduce the demand for cross border drug smuggling, reduce the CO2 footprint of the drug trade, and save hundreds of billions in social costs.
KBronson, you realize that the greatest number of addicts are addicted to legal pharmaceuticals and are most like your friends and neighbors? Drugs are here because people want them. If you wanted to stop the in-flow tomorrow then go after the bankers who launder their money. Set the consequences so high that no one in their right mind would want to be a banker for the drug cartels.
Trump and Schumer are cut from the same cloth and neither can or should be trusted.
3
I don't understand why Schumer is doing this. It is really just enhancement of the existing walls and fences. Even though it may be wasteful, I wouldn't jeopardize Dreamers over it. Let's not get hung up on symbols at the expense of substance.
3
If Trump continues to insist on his Hadrian's Wall that he promised in the campaign, then we are just wasting our money. And, it makes for an ugly symbol--the kind of symbol he just loves: fortress America. If it's money to use more technology and other methods to secure the border effectively, then he should accept that and declare his little victory. But positive action on DACA is essential. We are a nation of immigrants, illegal or otherwise. These are people who have been here for some time.
2
The Dreamers and those who brought them here are criminals. Send them home.
1
It's no big deal that the offer for wall funding was rescinded. It will be back later when the next CR is about to expire. Schumer will not try to close the government down again.
The DACA has received more attention than it deserves as it is not an acute problem. There will be no mass deportations. We still need a functional workers visa program. I can never understand all the resistance to amnesty.
1
Democrats and Republicans need to work together to stand firm and speak up with the bipartisan coalition of senators that already exists to have DACA children and young adults stay in this country. A majority of people in the country strongly support and believe that we all benefit from the DACA program participants being here and these young adults and children need a reasonable path to citizenship. The fate of so many should not be tied to the part of the Republican right wing agenda that is anti immigration or used as a bargaining chip.
3
As a life long Democrat I keep wondering why Chuck Schummer constantly confuses "brinksmanship" with "leadership." We need a more thoughtful constructive approach to solving this country's problems; throwing verbal hand grenades and political Molotov cocktails is not going to motivate the broader electorate to support our party. Yes, Trump is horrible, deplorable, criminal negligence all of the other bad things that have been said about him. But, if we allow him to distract us with his personal stink, we will lose focus on the harm he brings to our values. Lindsey Graham said it well in response to Trump's racist comments, "America is an idea." That idea is what needs to drive the Democratic Party in 2018, and we can do that successfully without Schummer's constant brinksmanship, but maybe not despite it. It's past time to return our focus to the "idea" of a nation that is inclusive, tolerant, welcoming and upright without the distraction of Schummer's antics.
These guys, both sides, are all posturing.
Stop talking to the press and get to work on finding a compromise.
4
you can't renege on something that was never agreed to. He put an offer on the table, it was not accepted, he can now take it off. That's known as negotiating.
2
President Obama proposed increasing financial and criminal sanctions on employers who illegally employ undocumented immigrants in the first place. This would effectively dry-up the jobs so such workers would elect to leave of their own volition. We need to increase funding for such enforcement, not build an ineffective wall and inhumanely expel people brought to our country as children through no fault of their own. Given the recent tax cuts, employers can well afford legal workers who are afforded the protection of our labor laws such as a 40 hour work week, overtime, minimum wage, etc.. We could also enact a humane "guest worker" program to fill in any staffing gaps which could be credited to a worker as a qualifier for consideration of being awarded a more permanent work visa.
1
We need to cut our over-funded military and put the money into healthcare, education, infrastructure and scientific funding. Our politicians play on our fear.
6
Why are we still talking about the wall that Mexico was going to pay fo?. Simply tell Trump to get Mexico to pay for it or admit publicly that he lied over and over again to his supporters. Of course it's hard to imagine either of those two things ever coming to pass. Trump never admits he's wrong. You know who else does that little children. It's just something that people learn as they mature. Another thing that will never happen for Trump. Part of the problem is that the press never really holds this guy accountable for flagrant lies and deception. Without any modicum of truth accountability human interaction really breaks down.
7
Not one penny of tax money for a wall. Not even one penny. No deals. No negotiations. No money for a wall, ever. Period.
10
Could someone explain to me how Republicans can say they support Dreamers and at the same time use them as a bargaining chip? Can’t have it both ways. The explanation is that citizens’ needs take priority over non-citizens. Well, life is more complicated than that and laws need to be changed if they are inhumane. Denying Dreamers a pathway to citizenship and/or deporting them would profoundly damage America. It hurts innocent people, costs tax-payers, and corrodes American principles. People don’t serve laws. Laws serve people and higher ideals.
This debate in Congress is shameful. Increased border security is a viable issue but discussing an actual physical wall as a barrier enables an unrealistic fantasy. It’s marketing gibberish and making American politics more ridiculous every day.
2
Good--then DACA is dead.
Send them home with their parents to the country where they have legal residency and let them go through the legal processes of applying to come back. If my parents had taken me to Switzerland illegally and then my parents and I were caught ten years later does anyone think the Swiss would let me stay? The Swiss would boot all of us out.
13
If this is the way our politicians are going to act, we may as well just close the Federal government and have the states run everything themselves.
I'm tired of hearing about the wall and DACA, there are a lot of big problems in this country and a stupid wall and a bunch of kids who were brought here without a choice aren't high on my list of issues.
3
I know I'm a Dreamer here, but I'd like Congress to pass a clean DACA bill and vote to crush a Trump veto. Make America not beholden to Putin again. Amen.
3
I knew a large community of illegal immigrants (South American) when I lived in Florida. They paid taxes on their illegal earnings with a PIN number. They had no fear of deportation because they knew the government had limited resources, and focused on criminal illegals. They all looked down on Mexicans.
NONE came to the US via the southern border. They all FLEW here and overstayed their tourist visas.
A wall would be useless against these and other illegals from all over the world. Spend some money on enforcement against their employers. Anyone who pays taxes with a PIN can be checked for status and cross-referenced with employer. Of course the IRS would have to be funded to do that.
8
The Dems up for election this year cannot afford to hand Trump another win, and that is what this is all about.
The could care less about the immigrant pop, unless they can vote.
4
Close ALL Federal facilities and related activities, and zero ALL Federal funding for the State of New York IMMEDIATELY.
Given the stunning success of tax reform in getting American companies to pay previously avoided taxes on the profits that they make selling American made goods in foreign countries, Trump has already got Mexicans to pay for the wall.
1
Why was the Wall ever on the table?
2
Chuck needs to travel to Haiti and ask why the Haitians built a border wall between Haiti and the Dominican Republic on the Island of Hispaniola in 2013.
Hint: Its for the same reason Americans that voted Trump into office and has to do with money and not race or religion.
Im afraid the Senator just wrote another check he will not be able to cash.
1
The Democrats in the Senate must be very stupid. The President has been very clear since the televised bipartisan meeting at the Whire House a couple of weeks ago. The 700,000 people who registered for protection under DACA will receive work visas, but no path to citizenship. The American people will receive a border wall and sufficient security to ensure that illegal immigration is completely eliminated in the immediate future. In addition, chain migration and the lottery system will also be eliminated and replaced with a merit based system of immigration. Simple enough - perhaps not for the idiots in the minority of the Senate.
11
Yup - immigration reform is just that easy! You really nailed it!
2
That televised meeting was just a dog and pony show for Trumps base, but he also said he would sign any bill the Senate put on his desk, that my friend was a lie. People who support him surely agree that lying is an approved method for deal making.
And 3rd grade name calling is also acceptable for a large man to engage in, I see a child who lies and has no problem causing good people harm, he will not prevail in the long run.
This brings to mind a statement made by a former AZ governor:
"There isn’t a wall in existence that can’t be defeated by a ladder one foot taller than the wall and rope."
She said: "You show me a 50-foot wall, and I'll show you a 51-foot ladder."
Nevertheless, a wall will keep out people. I used to think it would be a total waste of money to build a wall (more accurately: to COMPLETE a wall; large chunks were built under Obama and Bush). But it is true that keeping someone out of the US is cheaper in the long run than getting them out after they're here.
9
Walling certainly worked in the San Diego sector of the border. We can thank President Clinton for that.
2
It all seems pretty much hopeless to me. There seems to be no way to deal with a completely cynical and lying President and Republican Party, eh? Mexico was going to pay for the wall, not the US taxpayers. It's hard to imagine a clear and blatant lie--and the Republican Congress and pretty much the whole Republican Party goes with the lie. How in the world can a society exist with this kind of evil??
6
legislation on daca must be included in any new vote to fund government further, or in any quasi-final budget deal. otherwise, the house likely would not vote to approve daca.
but democrats must recognize the need to position themselves so that they are not reasonably accuses of shutting down government to promote "illegal immigration": shut down government, if they must, to direct tax dollars to humanitarian (ie, health care/education, etc.) ends.
6
Chain Migration brought my father and his family and my mother and her family here. My mother was sponsored by a wealthy celebrity back then because her sister happened to marry into their family. My mother was poor but educated and without chain migration, we would not be here. My mother was from Germany and you had to be sponsored by someone to get into the US because of the war. She worked hard to become a citizen etc.
Friends of mine who say supporting Trump isn't about racism, well how can you support a racist? If someone once told them 20 yrs ago that someday they would support a candidate who was as racist as Trump they would have scoffed. Yet here they are. I also hear how they speak about minorities sometimes so there are a lot of folks who think they are not racist but certainly are. Every family and circle of friends we know does but we all seem to get along or tolerate one another when we need to.
To now suggest that we become isolationist is not what America was founded on. Doesn't mean we can't have some common sense immigration, but we don't need to IMPORT terrorists. They get inducted right over the internet now - home grown. Lets just be real folks, we were all, at some point in history, immigrants. Most immigrants were poor not wealthy and yet we became the wealthiest nation in the world.
6
Patricia, with the exception of those who are uniquely qualified to help our economy, we just do not need anymore immigrants, regardless of their race. I am sure you are aware that our economy has permanently changed. We no longer have “empty” land to be cultivated or factory jobs to be filled. Tens of thousands of our own citizens and legal residents have been unemployed for so long that they have grown too discouraged to look for work, and so, are no longer counted in the official unemployment figure. Many more are working part-time when they want (and need) to be working full-time.
Economists see how automation is displacing more and more workers. Some say that our government will eventually have to start paying displaced workers a living allowance (for the rest of their lives) because there will be no jobs for them.
The last thing our country needs is more migrants. We simply do not have the jobs to employ them, regardless of their race.
2
Politically, it seems quite obvious what you have to do: a way must be found for the White House to concede on the wall issue while at the same time declaring victory in the immigration debate, and, Senator Schumer must make it clear to the immigration special interest groups that placing ideological purity over the running of the federal government may well cost the Democrats control of the Senate. Then, you thread the legislative needle with a compromise. This sort of thing used to be done all the time over much more volatile problems than this; who is today's 'Master of the Senate'?
2
Why is the wall even an issue? Mexico is going to pay for the wall. That is what we were promised isn't it?
8
Shutdown Schumer is just a VERY short step from blowing up the Senates filibuster rule. You don't continue to play a bluff after you have been called out.
5
The wall, and much of our national discussion on immigration is founded on some pretty illogical thinking overall. It seems that most people who want to control and limit immigration to the US who are not overtly racist think that the incoming immigrants are a financial burden to the US and don't make enough of a contribution to make letting them in worthwhile overall. But if we look at the problem another way, it is basically that the US doesn't have the foundation in place to support immigrants: we don't have national health insurance, comprehensive and quality rail, road and bridge infrastructure, reasonably priced education available for all, an up-to-date, well functioning system of government, etc. And that is because we keep in place a ruthless form of now crony capitalism that has been so steadily strengthened as to now benefit only a tiny few at the top of business and government. The [GOP] elephant in the room is that we did it to ourselves. We don't even have a functioning democratic republic now and we can't blame the immigrants who still even want to come here that are predominantly from countries significantly more impoverished than our own. But the longer we delay real reforms and changes, the sooner we ourselves will find ourselves in the shoes of the current crop of hopeful immigrants.
5
This is a classic case of bidding against yourself. Now that Schumer has offered the wall, retracting his offer after Trump's turndown, simply means it will be offered again under the right circumstances. In other words, some form of the wall will be built, thanks to Schumer and the Dems capitulation. Though it may sound callous, with 70% or more of the electorate in favor of DACA why not let it expire and let the GOP and Trump take the heat for sending U.S. raised children to a foreign country whose language they don't speak? The heart rendering stories this would create in the media will help elect more Dems. The 2018 election should be the sole focus of the Dems, not their pitiful negotiations with their feckless leader.
2
Jsailor: Yes, "the heart rendering (heart wrenching) stories..." We will listen to the stories, but the people telling them will be suffering beyond what we can imagine when they are deported back to lands they never lived in, never knew, and where they may not even speak the language! I cannot conceive of such cruelty (callousness), even to put the heat upon the GOP and trump. And more than anything, trump and GOP need the heat turned up maximally upon them. Deporting these kids MAY elect more Dems, but we will have still relegated 800,000 kids, born in the USA, to unknown hells, and frightening futures, because a bunch of rich, old, white racist guys hate them for not being the right color/ethnicity.
4
If they were born in the USA, they wouldn't need DACA.
“Senator Schumer is trying to rescind an offer that he never made in the first place, and misled the public about,” said Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary.
Perhaps it's time to record those fluid meetings with trump - though even with the recording blaring behind him he and his staff would barefacedly lie that the meetings occurred. Neither the GOP nor trump can be trusted - they have absolutely no concept of truth or honour.
6
Trump never said, ever, that Mexico would be presenting a Publishers Clearing House sized giant check.
He always talked about cost be recouped through renegotiated trades deals with Mexico, such as NAFTA, and the reduced costs due to lowered illegal migration and drugs across the southern border
3
I think you are giving President Trump way too much credit. I never heard the things you mention in your comment from President Trump on the campaign trail - just screaming about Mexico paying for the wall.
This revising what the President meant is getting very old.
1
Simply untrue.
Schumer is too old to lead the party, that's now obvious. He blinked, and you just cannot do that when negotiating with sharks like McConnell and Trump.
"Chuck Chuck!"
3
Jayme, Bernie Sanders is older than Schumer, and I have never seen such a dynamo as that man! His passion, intellect, energy, commitment, fortitude, persistence, honorableness, decency, integrity, character, compassion, common sense...all overwhelm his age. But aside from that, I do not believe Schumer's AGE to be an impediment to his ability to lead the Democrats. It is his strategies, his energy, and his commitment that may be lacking. And his fear. You can NEVER show fear to predators. trump and the GOP are some of the most vicious, insane, determined predators I have ever seen. It is EXHAUSTING, DISPIRITING, FRUSTRATING, DEMORALIZING fighting against such a hoard of uncivilized, murderous Barbarians! And especially when they hold all the power. Right--you cannot "blink", so to speak. The best thing that could happen is for Mueller to have the goods on them--to be able to castrate the entire lot of these evil predators who intend to dispatch millions of Americans, and eat our nation for lunch...to cut their corruption and deceit off at the exact point from which their foulness is fueled, and gets breath. When people use power to do evil instead of to do good...and they hold ALL the power...we have the fight of a lifetime on our hands. It is no small fear to feel threatened by your own government every single day, as millions of Americans are threatened by the racist trump and his cadre of crooks. Is this America, or is it Pakistan? Afghanistan? Iran? Iraq?
1
We should just go to all the people who want the wall and ask them to fund the wall directly. Individuals could just mark their tax forms for how much money they will contribute to the effort. With all those tax breaks, they should have lots of money left over to pay for it.
What a waste of money when there are so many cheaper forms of restrictions to control immigration.
7
I have suggested a GoFundMe page and see how much the Breitbarters can raise:)
We need to list all the nationalities of our current GOP. Then see if by their standards any of them would get in the USA under their idea of immigration. A wall to keep people out. How ironic they spend millions of taxpayers money traveling around this world where much to my surprise they are let in to the countries they so abhor. Actually , if their immigration were as choosy as ours they would never get in. And who knows their business in such jaunts?!
3
We could start with merit immigration and how it applies to our own First Lady who has no education and her only job skills are posing nude in front of the camera. Funny, her husband hires Haitians to cook and clean for her at Mar-a-Lago and brings them into the country through H-2b visas rather than hiring local Americans to work there. This is Trumps immigration policy in practice.
It’s obvious the Dems support DACA to increase their voting base. Why don’t they ever talk about the millions who are now older than 18.?
4
John, if and when Dreamers become citizens, perhaps they'll vote Dem (why would they vote Repub – would you, if you were in their shoes?). But in fact, until that happens, they aren't allowed to vote.
5
They do, John, they do. Those are the millions more who are also Americans from whom trump and the GOP want to take away healthcare, Medicare, Social Security. Yeah. Millions of those people are white, but millions of them are also Hispanic, African American, Asian, Indian. The Dems talk about them a lot. You just hear what you want to hear. And, besides, the DACA kids are the more pressing issue RIGHT NOW. Unless they are helped, trump and the GOP intend to deport them, to places they may have never been, places they do not know, places where they may not know anyone, and places where they may not know the language, or be familiar with the culture! Away from their friends and families! These kids were born here, went to school here, and many of them are VERY productive members of our society, probably more so than low life white supremacists and neo-Nazis. They are certainly more AMERICAN, more DECENT, than the white supremacist, racist garbage that spews hatred, and incites violence. The priority of the DACA kids is urgent, RIGHT NOW. That is why the Dems are talking about them MORE RIGHT NOW. But the Democrats also fight for every person in our society who is a victim of GOP harm, corruption, greed, arrogance, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, entitlement, disenfranchisement, and cruelty. The Dems use compassion, decency, and inclusiveness to increase their voting base; the GOP uses hatred, racism, greed, divisiveness, and lies to increase theirs.
1
With the mid-terms 10 months off and republicans hanging by their fingernails, they are going to need every base vote they can muster. McCOnnell promised a vote and there will be a vote but the DACA fix is not going to happen.
That Americans would even consider spending billions on "the wall" when there are so many useful infrastructure projects begging for funding boggles this Canadian mind. Or that you would impose tariffs on solar panels - to support the fossil fuel industry, no doubt . Or that you would deport hundreds of thousands of young tax payers that are American in all but birth place from a country that is rapidly aging (like all other western industrial nations) and in need of energetic young people. Exceptional, indeed!
9
Some sense seems to have dawned on Mr. Schumer. The wall was entirely one man's idea. It is not that anyone is against your country securing its borders. It is just that there are already fences on important stretches of your southern border and much of the rest is protected by Mother Nature. If there are gaps which need to be taken care of, more money needed to safeguard the lives of your border patrol agents, other practical ideas that would help, sure the Dems should be all ears. However, putting down 18 billion USD (which would only be the first instalment, as everyone knows) to build a wall at a time when:
- net immigration from Mexico is going down
- fewer people are caught crossing the border - billions are needed for infrastructure
is lunacy. If President Trump wants it so badly, he can build it out of his own pocket and wait on that cheque from Mexico.
8
Trump either wins, in this case getting the wall, or he destroys for the enjoyment of seeing others suffer. Of course, in this case, it would be the Dreamers who would suffer. A deal benefiting them is the primary goal.
2
No current issue shows the breakdown of effective governance in Washington more than immigration. As someone who worked in enforcing our immigration laws, I can state with certainty the the current law is a crazy-quilt disaster that is not in the national interest of the USA. It should have been replaced years ago and the sooner it is the better off we will be. Reasonable compromises are available on all the major issues, it just takes the political will and skill to reach them. Too bad "Captain Chaos" is in the White House...
4
We were promised that Mexico would pay for this wall. We will now either pay for this wall or deport - certainly at substantial taxpayer expense - 800,000 people whom a strong majority of Americans do not want to deport.
The Trump administration and Republican lawmakers excel in creating problematic solutions to non-problems.
6
Perhaps Schumer finally has a strategy for Trump. Play his lack of self-control and thin skin. Change the deal. Frequently. Keep him off balance. Enrage him and he will Twitter furiously during the night. Show the world how crazy he is.
6
Difficult to believe he could ever appear crazier than he is now.
1
I love it, bellstrom; it is good (and justifiable) strategy to use trump's own stupidity, cupidity, craziness, and malice against him...but his minions and his supporters will just keep on propping him up. And his supporters LOVE the insane, uncontrollable tweeting. What's next, for God's sake?!
1
Mr. Schumer's credibility is in doubt. Ms. Collins credibility on the other hand, will make her someone to be reckoned with.
2
NYer: Could you explain your comment? Mr. Schumer, in my opinion, was between a rock and a hard place. A "credibility" problem is not the problem he has; he is quite credible. There are other issues, though, regarding Senator Schumer, which may impede him from being more effective. Ms. Collins, on the other hand, is simply naïve; dealing with her seems to be like dealing with a baby from whom you can effortlessly snatch the candy. Are you talking about Susan Collins, the senator from Maine? "Someone to be reckoned with?????"
1
Americans no longer seem to care who’s to pay for their wall or whether or not this wall will be an effective tool for controlling their southern border. They seem only to care about the political machinations for or against it & whether pro-wall or anti-wall forces come out on top. ‘Making America great again’ seems to be making America appear less and less great each day.
5
A border wall. How quaint. It's just so 16th century. That's the spirit - 2 steps back, and 0 steps forward.
4
Athens had a wall once. It was great until the Persians came and laid siege and an awful illness broke out inside the city and decimated the trapped Athenians.
China built a wall to keep out the Mongols which worked great...until the Mongols came and took over. Now, its just a tourist attraction.
I wonder why Reagan didnt build a wall.
Why is it that I don’t believe anything that comes out of Chuck’s mouth?
Caving Chuck will cave again. He’ll find Trump’s wall. He will allow more draconian immigration rules against all those people that Trump is racist against.
The republicans will allow a small number of “deserving” dreamers and deport 10 times the number that will watch from the stadium where Trump’s Patriots win the Super Bowl.
Chuck will say he did what he could. But then they aren’t white people, and although they have never known any country but the USA, dreamers can’t vote and aren’t rich enough to buy an apartment from Donald Trump.
Why isn’t anyone hold donny to his word, the deal makers promise, that Mexico is going to pay for the wall??
Where are the leaders to hold him accountable?
donny needs to say publicly that he lied, and that Mexico will not pay for the wall if he didnt mean it.
That is after he is caught in his bigger lie about blocking the Russia investigations.
4
Simple...When President Trump has an actual agreement with the government of Mexico on how Mexico will pay for the wall, the democrats can trade approval for the wall with approval for DACA immigrants to be able to stay in this country, legally.
3
I don’t understand....every time this wall building funding issue is raised, every journalist should add the modifier “which candidate Trump promised would be paid for by Mexico” or replay those crowds chanting “Mexico” when asked who would pay for it.
Why is he allowed to get away with the bold faced lie? Maybe some small percentage of those supporters will see that they were played. Maybe.
5
Shumer says border wall is off table. That means they will start building it soon.
2
Makes a nice headline, but Schumer's crew can't guarantee "wall funding" anymore than Krazy Kim can be trusted not to launch another missile. New Congress, new budget, new thesis. So political reality goes.
3
"Schumer withdraws offer for border wall ... Sen. Patrick Leahy ... said that either the Department of Homeland Security should pay for building the wall with its own existing budget or they can get Mexico to pay for it, a reference to an oft-repeated Trump campaign pledge. 'They can pay for it out of there, if they think it's so important,' said Leahy, the top Democrat on the Appropriations Committee. 'Or they could do my other suggestion. He's pledged, given his word, that Mexico will pay for it because he's very good at the art of the deal and so on. Let's just open up a special account, as Mexico pays in for the Trump wall, they can build it.' " (CNN, 23Jan2018) I like option 2, Mr. Trump just needs to send the account number to Mexico.
4
if trump insists on wasting taxpayers money on a wall, give him a token wall for his cult of the ignorant (36%) in exchange for legalizing documents for 11million undocumented immigrants.
1
People who said that Schumer caved do not appreciate majority rules. After Trump put in a mechanism to rescind DACA, he only reconsidered DACA because he got pressure from some business leaders.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/04/business/daca-dreamers-trump-business...
All this right now is kabuki theater. The Dreamers are martyred. Certain Democrats and rabble-rousers will blame Schumer for not being a miracle worker. The reality is that red-state senators have a lot to lose with a government shutdown.
After the election, getting Dreamer protection was always a longshot. It is amazing how those on the left attack supporters of the Dreamers instead of the attackers of the Dreamers.
10
Studies indicate that about a hundred million Latinos would immediately move here if they could. The vast majority do not speak English and have little education and few job skills as well as large families. Should they move here, they will require all sorts of services that the American public must pay for including help paying for their food bills and medical bills.
Exactly how is this good for the American public? How large should our population grow before the Dems are satisfied they have enough voters?
12
Please provide links to the multiple studies you refer to in your comment that show there are 100 million Latino immigrants ready to immediately move to the United States today and that they would require all sorts of services paid for by American taxpayers.
2
1) The Dems already have way more votes thanthe Repubs, but gerrymandering, vote suppression, antiquated electoral college and Russian interference and vicious far-right lies and anti-Hillary propaganda through Breitbart and Fox News, plus Citizens United, gave the presidency and all branches of government to the Repubs.
2) It is simply a lie that Dems are in favor of letting just everyone in who wants to come here.
1
I think our borders should be protected and immigrants should be documented. But, they come here to work. Check any large scale farm, meat processing plant, roofing job or any other backing breaking low paid labor and you will see the people you decry.
The problem is opposite of what you say. They slightly depress wages of certain American workers. The cannot get benefits because they do not have documentation.
Please edify yourself.
The Ds can make a political issue but ultimately they will have to wait till after the 2018 election to have any realistic chance of helping these DACA people. Until then I'm sure the Trump administration will do the utmost to round them up. The border wall, if it is built, will be done with money appropriated by the Rs.
Secure the border by building the wall, then talk about what to do with the illegals already here. The Democrats are shameless in their pandering to the Hispanic lobby. No wonder they can't get elected to anything.
10
It's ok Norm, we know you just need to de-thaw from the Ice Age you're stuck in up in the N.E.
2
Hispanic lobby? The Hispanics vote at a lower rate and many voted for Trump, especially in Fla. where he carried 54% of the Cuban vote. The Democrats support policies that benefit people who are less likely to vote. The support things out of morality and agape.
Elsewise, the Republicans are avaricious, mean and venal. Trump has even exploited immigrant labor.
Those latino immigrants are going to ruin America just like the Irish, Italians, Germans, Africans, Polish, Chinese, Japanese, Scandinavian, Greeks, and Eastern European Jews did.
24
Sarcasm doesn't persuade well. Instead of saying "ruin America," just say, "run America."
1
It's actually satire not sarcasm.
I say ' keep the kids ' ... deport the Senate
31
Chuck is a lame duck.
5
Instead of building a wall, we should be sending reparations to Mexico on a regular basis for stealing half their land in the Mexican war.
9
Fairly won in a fight that they started, and populated with people who no longer wanted to be part of Mexico. We DID pay them anyway.
1
Before Columbus, the land you are referring to had NOT been settled by the Aztecs, the Mayans, or any other Mexican ethnic group. It had belonged to the ancestors of those we now call Native Americans. The only reason that Mexico came to temporarily hold title to it was that Spain stole it from the Native Americans and then Mexico defeated Spain. The U.S. next defeated Mexico, and so, took ownership of it.
It is not as if Mexico’s indigenous people had been living in what has become the southwest of the U.S. for thousands of years. They had been living in what is now called Mexico.
Just think what this part of the country would have been like today if it was still in Mexican hands. It would have been just as corrupt, over-populated, undereducated, and infiltrated with drug cartels as the rest of Mexico. Mexicans would still have been trying to leave their country for the U.S.
1
So the Statement of Work has gone out for bid. And, to keep the price down, the depth limit will be 6 feet. This alone makes the Tortilla Curtain a Bedouin Taco . . . all of us latinos are having the biggest laugh of all . . .
We are putting our money on the Underground Border Mall that will extend 50 miles with ever-rotating exits. And, we will be providing jobs and housing to the dreamers to build this complex for us: Our emigrant brethren will be able to shop, enjoy a variety of restaurants, stay at Guapo B&Bs, enjoy spas and travel our quiet and cool bullet subways to multiple destinations.
So, the sting will hurt a bit but we will prevail and return . . .
5
He liberals, you want DACA, we want the Wall. It is as simple as that, is not, start shipping all those illegal aliens south of the border with the rest of them.
3
Schumer received fierce blowback from his democrats who are dedicated like the media to taking him down.
1
This posturing is ridiculous. Put the border wall in the budget with the stipulation that not one cent gets released until we have a written agreement from Mexico that they will pay/reimburse the American Taxpayer. AS PROMISED
9
Get the money first !
Funny, how in the 90s Schumer said that family should not be in the immigration discussion, followed by him voting for the wall in 05 or 06. Now we have him making some politically poor decisions over the past few days that is going to negatively impact the Liberal party.
Go Chuck, Go.
9
In the 90s Trump was a Democrat...
1
And he said Oprah would be his ideal running mate:)
Craft a reasonable compromise and send it to the WH to be signed. If he does not sign it, the consequences are on his shoulders. Stop playing games, do your job and let the President take responsibility for his actions. Extremists on both sides need to be sidelined and their influence needs to be checked. Our Democracy is based on this very basic premise. Stop letting extreme members of Congress from killing that premise resulting in a non functioning government. We have been paralyzed by their actions for too long and we are losing ground too often because of their egregious acts and misuse of power to get their way.
5
Really well said! Why can't enough in the middle stand up and realize the voters are just waiting for someone to be a leader and we will follow them - Repub. or Dem. And at this point, does it really hurt any of them to compromise? Politically, they're just as bad off if they don't.
Lenore's husband:
Fine, have the wall — knock yerselves out! It's worth my tax money to get DACA and watch the wall fail in its purpose — *if* it even actually gets completed after being approved.
2
No, no wall. Yes, DACA, a legal path to citizenship for parents, and enforcement of legal employment and wages. In the 80's we cut taxes and we did immunity because they are both great for the economy ... we need to do it again.
1
Texas Land Commissioner Jeb Bush launched a GoFundMe campaign for the Alamo restoration project. Why can't the GOP launch a GoFundMe for their dumb border wall? Then any Americans (or Mexicans, or Russian bots!) who want to contribute, can.
15
I have been saying the same thing. If the page gets started, Trump could prove how patriotic he is by making a good contribution. So could the other Republicans running for office, etc. It would be fun to watch someone ask Ann Coulter on tv how much she has ponied up:)
Does anyone know how to go about setting one up that would seem legitimate? It would be simple to mention it in the Breitbart comment sections to gain steam. Or...the lack of money being donated might show how little the wall really means to the average voter.
I'm with Schumer. Let's have some common sense in this game! We need the protection, but it can be electronic and not a physical wall. Please let's remember this is only a recent stance in the history of the GOP. Listen to Reagan and both Presidents Bush.
3
The billions of dollars that the already obscenely wealthy just received via a tax heist could easily fund the colossally ridiculous wall.
Let's also recall that most humans and drugs pass from Mexico to the United States via tunnels. But by all means, let's force the peasants pay for a useless wall rather than re-build our crumbling infrastructure, fix our schools or help the working class, infirm or elderly.
21
Congress should not have to spend their valuable time arguing over funding for "The Wall." Either Mexico will pay for it OR Donald Trump, self-proclaimed millionaire, will pay for it. Leave our tax dollars out of it!
14
From a moral and economic standpoint the DACA problem should be a no-brainer for both parties. On the moral side of the equation, the Republicans, and their bible-thumping adherents, should find that embracing children who were brought to this country, and for all intents and purposes are American, is the right thing to do. It's what Jesus would do. Of course the new politically active right-wing Jesus may not, but the Jesus I read about in the New Testament probably would. He seemed to have a lot to say about the disadvantaged and had much scorn for the wealthy. Economically, we have educated these children just like all other children, many of them are now employed with meaningful jobs, some are serving or have served in the armed forces, so they are contributing taxpaying members of our society. Why throw our investment down the drain for some kind of pique bout the reason they were brought here. It wasn't their fault, but our society is benefiting from their presence. It seems like it should be a win-win for both sides.
13
Oh how I love the moral stance....so breaking our laws sits where in the morality wheelhouse?
2
Jesus became a refugee in Egypt, but the went back to where he came from when he went home. Neither you nor I know what Jesus would do, but the record tells us what he did.
Both Jesus and the Torah speak a lot about how one is to treat the sojourner in your land.
Sleep with one eye open I say and save all those Billions for poor Americans.
5
A wall will not stop illegal drugs and immigrants from flowing into the country. Smugglers will bring them in by boat, as has already begun. See an 8/27/17 article in the Daily Beast titled "What will billions for the wall get us? ‘Boat People’ on America’s Coasts."
A more effective way to discourage illegal immigration would be to require every employer to use "e-verify" to ascertain an employee is allowed to work here. "E-verify" is a government program that has rave reviews for being quick and easy to use. Any employers who did not use "e-verify" could be first warned and then fined.
Tens of thousands of Americans have been displaced by out-sourcing and automation. (They have been out-of-work for so long that they are no longer counted in the unemployment figures.) It is not fair that we allow any of our remaining jobs be taken by undocumented workers. Since migrants can be smuggled in by boat, "e-verify" would be better at ending illegal migration than a wall.
9
Trump has to pay for the wall himself. America bailed out his failed businesses. He got elected on his lie that he would force Mexico to build his Unicorn Wall. Now he can pay- he has used our presidency to enrich himself and then gave himself a tax cut so, he can pay for it easily.
16
If Congress were truly interested in restoring DACA protections they could present a clean bipartisan bill (only DACA related, no Wall) that could be overwhelmingly passed in both the Senate and House. Let Trump veto it. If it's truly a popular bill Congress could override the Presidential Veto. There is a separation of powers for this very reason. Congress does not need the President to pass legislation. Maybe it's time Mr. Trump realizes that...
7
Stand strong replicants and Mr. President!
It's your game to lose!
Thankfully, Senator Schumer has "seen the light". As Soviet Leader Joseph Stalin, and the Communist Party, learned, after World War Two, NO group, of people, can be "held back" by such a barrier. The Berlin Wall was PROOF of this! It is, now, time for a discussion, of how to allow these people to become LEGAL Americans, by adding their star to our flag. This, by allowing them to VOTE their way into the United States. Once they achieve statehood, there will be no more reason for debates. No more reason to spend billions, to re-deport the same people, over and over.
1
When I first read that the shutdown was over and that Schumer "caved", I was sure of "WHAT - NOT AGAIN as I am definitely in the "Schumer is spineless" camp. After reading what was accomplished by letting the shutdown end - that CHIP has been funded for another 6 years, I can't entirely argue the decision. DACA is not yet an extreme urgency whereas CHIP was. DACA will be an urgency at the expiration of this extension, which makes a new round of push-back possible. In sitting back and digesting the indigestible, I think Schumer played the hand he was dealt with more finesse than I expected. At least, I am willing to withhold judgement until February 8th rolls around and we see who blinks first and it better NOT be the Democrats as the present state of affairs cannot absorb classic wussy spineless behavior.
2
"Cryin Chuck Schumer...": Trump demeans the Presidency.
3
I'm tired of Schumer and Pelosi. They've been around long enough to have made strides when they held power and they didn't get the immigration job done. I have no faith in their ability to do so now when their backs are against the wall. The shrillness only gets louder and both being from the most liberal states in the country doesn't help right now. It gives them zero leverage.
Where are the Republican and Democratic Senate and House leaders from other states that have much to lose from this wall? Texas? Georgia? Florida? Nevada?
By the way, I vote for Ted Cruz as the biggest hypocrite in the country.
1
lol, I voted for Obama simply because he promised to end the war in Afghanistan and shut down Gitmo...which never happened. He promised Hope and Change but other than Joe Biden finding some coins on a sidewalk one day, I did not see much of either:)
I consider myself to be as liberal as they come but I left the Democratic Party because of Obama/Hillary. And no, I did not vote for Trump:)
800,000 people is an army. These Dreamers are obviously done for as far as the USA is concerned. There is no compassion or decency In the Republican Party.
I hope there is some other nation who in one fell swoop invites all 800,000 to come and make it their new home. Maybe a place with a negative growth rate like Japan or our worst enemy ever Cuba. It would be a real stick in the eye for our once glorious nation. The problem with making America Great again is ones definition of Great and make it great for who? The one percent? ✔️, white evangelicals? ✔️. What about the rest of us? We all all immigrants to this land, even the aboriginal populations walked across the frozen Berring Sea. To evict 800,000 young people in the most heinous way, blind folded and in handcuffs will give the USA 800,000 enemies (plus their families who will also hate us). And we will deserve that hate. If you thought the problems we had in the Middle East were bad... hold on tight.
4
The 800,000, are here because we had a lax immigration policy; their families got here and many thrived now. Why are their children paying for bad system? I say let them stay and we suck-up that we did not do a god job of protecting our border and move on.
Rescinding President Obama's DACA just shows how cruel and mean-spirited Trump and his sclerotic, old white men of the Republican Party are, appeasing a bigoted base for votes is disgraceful.
The Republican Party should be leading the Americans toward a just country, not dragging it backward.
There must be ways of working toward a bi-partisan solution, instead of the GOP staying cynically intransigent to secure modern-day Know-Nothing votes, which guarantees it to stay in power and represent their real constituents, the oligarchs.
Are there any mature men in the GOP with some humanity? Their childish leader has a stone where his heart ought to be. He's no leader.
3
Between the new tax reform law and the border wall Trump will have successfully pulled off his 7th bankruptcy - the 7th being the USA.
5
The first thing the Democrats and Republicans should agree on is to get rid of Donald Trump. After that, other things may be a lot easier.
1
The wall is off the table? What a loss to all the graffiti artists!
1
If Schumer takes away full funding for the wall, Pres. Trump should call for the passage of the two-year budget before any discussion of Dreamer amnesty can take place. The American people refuse to be blackmailed over anything.
13
Recent polls show more voters support DACA than ever, more voters blame Trump for the last shut down, and a majority of voters don't believe funding a wall is a priority. Schumer is representing the will of the people.
19
Its really simple. If Americans would take the jobs that the illegals do, then the illegals would go back home. But Americans, who used to roll up their sleeves and work hard at the dirty, non-computer jobs refuse to do them now. They would rather collect unemployment because steel, coal, Agricultural, meat packing, custodial and other such jobs have disappeared instead of working hard. US prison inmates can take a certified welding class, and when they are released from prison will immediately stat a job paying in excess of $30 per hour with great benefits, but a laid off mine worker refuses to get retrained.
10
Jeff, how about going after the people that hire illegals .
5
“The wall offer’s off the table,” the leader, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, told reporters at the Capitol a day after senators overcame an impasse to end a three-day government shutdown.
Now the Republicans will work hard to build that wall. 45 is in a good spot at this juncture.
Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY) has over played his hand. Declaring the wall off the table on Sunday, suggests he realized defeat.
5
Build a large sand box in Mar-a-Lago with 12 ft walls using the funds not accounted from the Republican inaugural celebration. Then place POTUS Trump inside without his cell phone and access to Tweet account.
But in all seriousness, if POTUS Trump and his rabid supporters want a border wall, then they should be the one who pay for it. Not the rest of American taxpayers, not the states, not the Mexican government. And how will Trump and Supporters pay for this endeavor? Simple - restructure the present IRS 1040 page one to include a box to be checked off that permits Trump Wall Supporter donations. These fools can donate, $1, $5, $10, $100 to building the wall. Oh, and those donations are not tax deductible.
Once these people have checked off that box, the government will not have a record of who they are and where they live. This will make it so easy to pick them up and deport them to the large sandbox built for Trump.
4
Who paid for the Wall that California built from Tijuana into the desert? Yeah, that Wall. The California Wall. Why did California build the Big Blue Wall?
Donald Trump wants to hold the DACA kids hostage to his dumb wall. Democrats should simply insist they won't negotiate with kidnappers. Release the DACA kids or no deals on anything.
5
That anyone would believe anything an official in the Trump administration says after the last year shows just how gullible they are.
A wall?! An idiotic idea that has been around forever. A group of third graders in Marfa, Texas in 1998 were asked about a solid wall 10 feet tall along the entire border. After they stopped giggling they pointed out all you'd need was an 11 foot ladder.
Which goes to show that the average 11 year old is smarter than the president and most of his party.
10
How tall is the California Wall?
I dont know how tall this wall is but is it working? :) And if California did it, isnt that proof that its a bad idea? :)
Without diminishing Trump’s constant, detrimental impact on every level, the ongoing failure of Democratic Party leadership must keep being highlighted and must result in real change NOW. To even consider a deal to fund the wall gives Trump’s outrageous, offensive premise for the wall credence and, in so doing, allows what was and should remain the standard for normality and decency to slip ever toward crackpot, right-wing authoritarianism as the new “normal.” (See gun control, as another example from the last several years.) And with that the Democrats’ ability to be the flag bearers for progressivism, inclusivity, fairness, real common sense and real decency, is lost. Stand up and fight! Get out the vote! Motivate people to push for and support real change! Make smart decisions and replace those who don’t and can’t! You wasted 2016 by rolling over and anointing a supremely unappealing presidential candidate and now just keep on rolling over in dealing with opponents who have repeatedly demonstrated they don’t play by the same rules. Unite your party and stand against them — determine your core principles and adhere to them. Speak to and for the people you purport to represent. No more concessions. Make clear that only one party — not yours — is responsible for ramming terrible legislation and policies through and manipulating at every turn. Stop trying to appeal to “reason” when you are dealing with opponents who have none and are motivated only by GOP self-interest.
2
Senate should approve the wall - on the condition that Mexico pays in advance. That is what Trump promised and that is what he should be allowed to deliver.
6
Trump has made the wall a non-issue. All because he went back on his word. Schumer was willing to put billions of dollars for a wall, that is questionable at best. so that DACA and Immigration Reform would be addressed first. Does Trump expect to have his actions not to have repercussions.
I am personally delighted that Susan Collins is shrewd enough to get reasonable Republicans and Democrats together to fight for DACA and Immigration reform.
I hope other Republicans and Democrats will join this coalition to get the Senate as a whole to act with dignity and govern the way they were elected to do.
Maybe the House will take a page out of Collins book and form a Common Sense Coalition that includes Democrats and Senators.
God knows that McConnell and Ryan cannot be relied on to govern.
3
Perhaps Trump will learn that offers can disappear if they are not taken when offered
4
Democrats: please pick a principle and stand up for it. The Wall is a great one to fight against, because a border wall symbolizes shutting people out of this country based on their race, their poverty, their national heritage (please note: no Canadian wall is proposed). Most Americans don't want a giant wall between us and Mexico that will cost billions of dollars and let's be real, will never get built, and most Americans will vote you into office if you stand up for a principle they can get behind. Immigration, fairly regulated and enforced, is something most of us believe in.
4
The border wall never should have been “on the table”.
6
This this makes it look like the Dems don’t really want immigration reform.
11
More like wait for Mexico for give Trump the funding up front.
The Dems never met an illegal they did not like nor pander to.
Why are they working harder for non-citizens rather than their own constituents?
This will cost them at the polls.
21
Why was it on the table on the first place. Trump say he will have Mexico pay for it. Get him to keep his words.
9
History will show these men destroyed the democracy of America.
At a Republican retreat, at the Library of Congress, right before Obama’s 2009 inauguration, Mitch McConnell said:
“there are enough of us to block the Democratic agenda-as long as they all marched in lockstep.”
“As long as Republicans refused to follow his (President Obama’s) lead, Americans would see partisan food fights and conclude that Obama had failed to produce change.”
January 20, 2009 Republican Leaders in Congress literally plotted to sabotage and undermine U.S. Economy during President Obama's Inauguration. In Robert Draper's book, "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives" Draper wrote that during a four hour, "invitation only" meeting with GOP Hate-Propaganda Minister, Frank Luntz, the below listed Senior GOP Law Writers literally plotted to sabotage, undermine and destroy America's Economy.
The Guest List:
Rep. Paul Ryan(R-WI)
Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA),
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX),
Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX),
Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-MI)
Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA),
Sen. Jim DeMint (SC-R),
Sen. Jon Kyl (AZ-R),
Sen. Tom Coburn (OK-R),
Sen. John Ensign (NV-R) and
Sen. Bob Corker (TN-R).
Non-lawmakers present Newt Gingrich
During the four hour meeting:
The senior GOP plotted to bring Congress to a standstill regardless how much it would hurt the American Economy by pledging to obstruct and block President Obama on all legislation.
History repeats.
11
No ban...no wall; you come for one...you come for all.
2
Well then... one more absolutely ASININE idea is off the table... onward.
3
Mexico's paying for the wall. Next item on the agenda, please.
4
So, Chucky, how many buses does it take to deport 800,000 illegal aliens?
You want the Dreamers? We want the Wall. That's our starting position.
You want the Dreamers to have a path to citizenship? That's gonna require the Democrats a lot more than just a Wall.
14
I rarely agree with Andrew Sullivan. However, when he said on Bill Maher's show that the Dems should "give him his damn wall!," I had to completely agree.
As Sullivan points out, $18 billion is not just a drop in the bucket, but much of that money would be spent on border security measures that most Democrats agree with; only a portion would go to any actual physical "wall." So if poviding $18 billion would serve to protect the "Dreamers" (among other positive outcomes), then the Dems should simply give him his stupid "wall."
The only downside to doing so is not the $18 billion. It is the fact that it would look like a "win" for Der Furor, since he would be able to "spin" it to his base by saying that he not only fulfilled his campaign promise (a lie, of course, given how much more there was to that promise), but that he "made the Democrats" pay for it (a half-truth, as well as the hypocrisy involved, since he told his base he would "make the Mexicans pay for it"). And since ANY "win" would give an uptick to his approval rating, that might help him (and the GOP) this year.
However, even if it does increase his approval rating by a little, it is not likely to make a bit of difference going into the midterms; it is simply not a "strong" enough issue to do so.
So...give him his wall, if what "we" get in return is as worth it as it would seem to be.
1
The wall is a dumb idea. Showing your hand in the early part of negotiations is even dumber. You blew it Schumer.
2
President Deal Maker strikes again!
Looks like Chuck does not want a deal
1
Go Chuck!
Hey, Donald, build a chain of hotels!
It was nothing short of pure and utter brilliance that Senator Schumer's Plan B knocked the GOP Majority Leader's autocracy right out of the Senate. This is how the US government is intended to be.
When a party singularly tries to force its biased, partisan ideology on the entire country, it is time to put a stop to it. In 2016, 3.2 million Americans stepped into a voting booth and chose a Dem.
The GOP must be really smarting now that their little Win by Electoral College game is resulting in the SC's rulings that extreme gerrymandering in NC and more recently PA. Like we all didn't know the GOP was abusing the Electoral College to win elections.
As for this wall, from an engineering standpoint, it means creating artificial dams across rivers and streams. And what about the Rio Grande River? It isn't totally owned by the U.S. Will Mexico just allow Trump's Wall Builders to confiscate the Rio Grande on Mexico's side?
The bigger joke is also what happens when there is a natural disaster along such a lengthy wall.
Trump is as phony as that rug on his head.
11
And so the show goes on.
When will reasonable people FINALLY understand that there is no honor nor sincerity in Trump's negotiation tactics?
This man and his racist, small-minded minions like Miller et al have made a mockery of decency, humanity, and Western Civilization.
In the meanwhile, citizens should register to vote---and VOTE in Nov.
Would be nice to see Sen. Cruz go back to where he came from. He deserves it.
6
Mexico has it covered. I have heard trump say so repeatedly for a year and a half.
Why should we pay for something his superior negotiating skills can get from Mexican taxpayers?
And what does protecting 800,000 American children from being sent to foreign countries have to do with "HateHenge" anyway?
8
It's long past due for Democrats to play hardball, besides wasn't trump's promise to have Mexico pay for the wall.
3
The Border Patrol doesn’t want a border wall that stretches from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico. If a wall were built across the Texas despoblado, the Border Patrol wouldn’t patrol it. The Border Patrol wants to strengthen and expand the existing border fence as it passes though populated areas like El Paso/Juarez and the Rio Grande Valley. It wants enhanced surveillance technologies to patrol the less populated areas. Trump has indicated he will settle for a border barrier less magnificent than the “big, beautiful, wall” he described on the campaign trial. As part of a separate bill, Congress should fund a border barrier that conforms to Border Patrol specification and name it the “Trump Memorial Border Wall.” With the border distraction out of the way, Congress could turn its attention to passing a bill that addresses the more important aspects of legal and illegal immigration.
1
Schumer is toast. Pandering to your radical left base after capitulation to Trump and the Republicans will be seen for exactly what it is. The wall will be built. Illegal aliens will be deported. And chain migration will be terminated. Count on it, Senator Schumer.
8
As a fellow New Yorker, I really do not see Schumer becoming toast. Personally I think it was wise to end the shutdown to get CHIP back and open bipartisan debate. And only a sucker would keep offering “the wall” - why fulfill their side of a bargain when the other party reneged? Trump had two possible bipartisan deals he blew off, and Ryan and McConnell wouldn’t even debate immigration until now, though it’s a major promise from the President. The Democrats made two offers and they ended the shutdown to save poor kids’ health care and pressure the Republicans into debate on immigration. That debate is regular congressional procedure which Republicans did NOT offer on the tax bill.
1
It is unconscionable and disgusting to hold hundreds of thousands of Dreamers hostage to the building of a wall that will never solve any real immigration problems and is decades too late in its conceptualization.
Only Republicans without moral moorings and a complete disregard for their fellow Americans would dream of using such a deceitful and despicable negotiation tool.
When, if ever, do we say this behavior isn't what America represents and must be challenged? When do we demand that our politicians actually represent the people and do what they were elected to do?
After a year of descending into a quagmire of lies, obfuscation and power-hungry manipulations, we are faced with an undeniable truth: America is at a crossroads and only the people will be able to take control and solve this crisis. Our ancestors are cheering us on.
4
Donald J.Trump is a product of the chain migration he detests.
6
I think we should ask the Salvadorans, Hondurans, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, Colombians, Peruvians and Ecuadorians to chip in too. It's only fair. :-0
1
"I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me, and I’ll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great great wall on our southern border and I’ll have Mexico pay for that wall." DJT
10
The roadblock on the Dreamers’ pathway to citizenship is the Senate filibuster, or more accurately, the Senate’s “60-vote rule” that prevents cloture. If the 60-vote rule were waived, Republicans would quickly pass a compromise immigration bill that (1) grants DACA enrollees citizenship or legal residence status, (2) strengthens border security, (3) deters future illegal immigration and (4) replaces “chain immigration” with a merit-based immigration policy.
The pretense that “no one knows what the president wants” is a charade. During a Saturday press briefing, White House Legislative Affairs Director Marc Short held aloft printouts of two memorandums the White House has delivered to Congress to explain the president’s stance on DACA, illegal immigration and legal immigration reform. Everyone knows Trump will settle for something less than the “big, beautiful wall” he described on the campaign trial. No one is going to build a wall across the Texas despoblado.
But what Trump wants doesn’t much matter. No immigration bill can reach the Oval Office without going through the House of Representatives, which is filled with immigration hardliners. Trump will sign any compromise bill that reaches his desk.
3
Are you joking? If the 60-vote rule were waived, the House and Senate Republican Immigration bill would be a compromise bill just like the tax-cut-for-the-rich bill was a compromise. There is no evidence that supports your claim.
If a tall and transparent wall, paid for by Mexico, is not built, then Mr. Trump is the big loser here. After all, that was his promise. Whenever Trump treats brown people with just an iota of decency, House Republican hardliners, his base, and Fox all scream bloody murder. Even with the 60-vote rule, it is unlikely that Trump Republicans will agree to a compromise however reasonable and humane it is.
William Case wrote:
"... If the 60-vote rule were waived, Republicans would quickly pass a compromise immigration bill that (1) grants DACA enrollees citizenship or legal residence status, (2) strengthens border security, (3) deters future illegal immigration and (4) replaces “chain immigration” with a merit-based immigration policy. ..."
1
And he didnt sign off on the Senate offer why?
1
No. I am not joking. The Constitution provides all issues brought before the Senate are to be settled by a simple majority vote, with the exception of treaty ratifications, impeachments and constitutional amendments, Senators are supposed to vote on issues, not prevent issues from coming to a vote.
Republican hardliners know that can't get what they want through the House without granting Dreamers legal status or citizenship. Not enough Republican representative would vote for a bill that did not let DACA enrollees stay. This makes any bill that passes the House a compromise bill.
1
Very surprised that President Trump and the pro-Wall contingent don't do a work around for the funding by going the public/private partnership route the Administration has touted for infrastructure project at large.
The Wall is easily categorized under infrastructure. And you'd like to think that many major companies who just received a 40% break on their tax bills would be thankful enough to show their support for the Wall by using some of their windfall to fund it.
That way Trump could at least claim that average US taxpayers are having their tax dollars used to pay for the Wall. Thus somewhat keeping his promise.
1
When will Trump be called out to stand up for his campaign promise to have "MEXICO PAY FOR THE WALL"
Why has this fact been forgotten and been omitted for all conversations about the wall?
6
Dangerous politics. Resist Trump at all costs. In this case, the cost is DACA because the deal is there. Treating it as a wedge issue is not smart -especially to only appease the very small, but loud radical left.
4
Trump campaigned on building a WALL AND MEXICO pays for it. So as soon as Trump gets a check from Mexico to pay for the wall...go ahead and build the wall.
Make e-verify mandatory and you won’t need a Wall.
6
"Trump at his campaign rallies: "We're going to build a big, beautiful wall..."
"Trump fans at his rallies: "...and Mexico is going to pay for it."
I guess they're giving him a mulligan on this.
10
I guess he meant Mexico would pay for it in a shake-your-fist Snidely Whiplash “you’ll pay for this!” metaphorical way, not a way involving giving us actual money.
The Dreamers did nothing illegal in coming to America. They were not even at the legal age of consent when they were brought to the United States. It is not moral to punish any human being for doing nothing wrong. Deporting Dreamers violates the Cruel and Unusual Punishment Clause.
Maurice F. Baggiano, Member of the Bar of the U.S. Supreme Court
8
since the supreme court has decided to consider a fast track daca appeal the administration will be in no hurry to reach a deal pending their decision.
briefs due at sc in early feb. and if they accept decision by end of june. the administration is deliberately not requesting to block the district court's ruling so the status quo can hang around for now.
there's a strong likelihood that current daca absent legislation will be ruled unconstitutional giving gop that much more leverage. if the gop/administration can't get what they want between now and then a sc decision in their favor could push dems to deal and at the same time provide dems some cover.
theoretically the administration could delay any adverse action on daca recipients for 6-12 months after they get their favorable ruling; they might very well do this until after what should be an explosive election in nov.
1
Immigration is a complicated issue to say the least but the wall is a non-starter. Democrats should hold the line until November and see what voters have to say.
4
I encourage all commentators and the NYT's editorial board to read the most recent Harvard-Harris poll from 1/22/2018, here are a few takeaways:
The poll found Americans support granting legal status to the registered illegal immigrant Dreamers. They also back Mr. Trump’s 3 primary requirements: a border wall, limits to chain migration and, an end to the diversity lottery. Clearly the comments here reflect the NYT's audience but not the majority of American citizens.
6
Yeah - but do they really care about it being a giant 30 foot great wall of China? A sensitized fence and drones would do it for me. Besides no one wants to come here with Trump in charge.
Americans overwhelmingly want DACA act made permanent. There is no reason to give in to wall demands unless you get something else. Either a visa program. It looks a little ridiculous now, but is the right bargaining position.
Apparently Schumer doesn't really want to solve the immigration issue. It looks like all he wants to do is perpetuate it as a thorn in Trump's side that Shumer can poke at any time he's upset.
4
If the GOP wants to spend billions of our tax dollars to build something, let them use our money to fix our infrastructure. Instead of promising this GOP executive branch a wall hold their feet the fire about the promise of fixing our roads, bridges, ports, etc. Tie DACA to infrastructure funding and see how the GOP reacts.
4
Why not insist that money for the wall will ONLY come in a package that includes money for roads, bridges, ports, etc.?
This is so doable, yet the parties are so intransigent. Democrats want the DACA children to have a path to citizenship, and so do most Republicans. Republicans want to reduce illegal migration with border security and increased enforcement -- and have a greater role for merit in immigration decisions vs. extended family (i.e. end lottery and chain migration.). Probably 80% of Americans support all of this.
You have to applaud Senators Machin and Collins for seeing the path here. If Paul Ryan could lead the House on this issue and negotiate, something could get done. If we allow extremists on both sides to push untenable positions: 'NO WALL' and 'NO AMNESTY' we will get nowhere, again.
1
I don't want my hard-earned tax dollars going to this ridiculous campaign boondoggle.
I can only assume we'll be using American labor to build this wall and not Home Depot labor? Maybe all the Trumpers along our Southern border will be happy to pitch in - they voted for it after all.
4
Schumer offered $25 billion of taxpayer money to fund Trump's monstrosity?!?!? Who's side is he on? This is negotiating? How many times did Donald Trump claim, to ravenous applause from his base, that Mexico would pay for the wall? Talk about a flip-flopper. Democrats should hold him to his word and make sure not one American cent goes to finance President Ozymandias' folly.
Nothing is unraveling.
Sen. Schumer is just staking out a new initial bargaining position, which is a smart move.
The next few weeks will bring non-stop, sound and fury coverage of the immigration negotiations.
The end result will be that Dreamers will be legalized in some fashion, as will the Haitians and Salvadorans. The only question is what concessions the Democrats will make in terms of border wall/security, chain migration, visa lottery, etc. Neither Democrats nor Republicans will be happy with the final deal, but they'll live with it.
This is just the normal legislative process, which is a refreshing change from the executive-oriented democracy of the past eight years or so.
1
With all the talk about DACA and funding Trumps border wall, I don’t understand why no one is reminding Trump and his believers that he promised over and over again that Mexico would pay for it!! Why are we even talking about funding this stupid wall?
1
Sadly the author of the article decided to use the term "Mr. Schumer’s decision to renege". When you are negotiating and the other party says no. Taking back your original offer is not the definition of "renege". If Trump said yes to the deal and then backed out, that is a perfect use of the word "renege".
Why should I waste my time trying to be informed about this issue when the D.C. Turkeys can't figure out what they want. I know I want protection for the Dreamers and I don't want to waste money a wall, just as I want the US to stop wasting money bombing Third World countries. But my opinions and wants have no impact on these Turkeys.
1
So what will US policy, after this fight, be in regards to children who come here illegally?
What we do, now, in regards to DACA will create a lot of pressure to extend that same policy to future arrivals.
Is that what we are agreeing to now? Or is this agreement going to be limited to just this group of illegal immigrants?
I am very concerned that we are just going to do this over and over again. It is clear that the Democratic Party thinks the law should only apply to people who are unsympathetic.
6
The Democrats have negotiated themselves out of any possible DACA fix. McConnell will bring DACA “up for debate” if the issue is not resolved by Feb. 8. If DACA is being debated, therefore, a budget has passed, a budget without DACA. The government is funded, so the Democrats can’t extract concessions on DACA by threatening a shutdown. And Republicans don’t have to do anything more than debate; they have their budget and want to block DACA. Furthermore, the Democrats have to concede on all Republican budget demands, because if they push a shutdown on Feb. 8, then DACA never comes up for debate. So the Democrats have agreed to rubber stamp the Republican budget and engage in a lot of empty talk about DACA with no possibility of making DACA permanent. They have rendered themselves helpless, impotent.
1
Almost 63 million people voted for Donald Trump. Much as most New York Times readers, including me, wish he had lost, he won, and his signature initiative was building a wall (and having Mexico pay for it.) In other words, almost every one of those 63 million people were aware of the wall when they voted. Regardless of whether Democrats dislike the wall, don't want to pay for it, think it's stupid or find it offensive, we live in a democracy, and it seems to me that any reasonable compromise must include the wall. It's also reasonable to hold Trump accountable for having Mexico pay for it, because if Mexico fails to pay, the President has failed to deliver on a key part of his promise. Assuming we ultimately build this ridiculous wall, every one of those 63 million voters should keep this in mind when they go into the voting booth in 2020.
Regardless of one's position on immigration, the wall is a dumb idea. It's a 20th Century solution that won't solve 21st Century problems. Dubai is experimenting with drone taxis and sophisticated tunnels under the border have already been found. The wall is the equivalent of a statue - sure it might be symbolic but it's not accomplishing anything. It's a giant boondoggle of money that will do little to secure the border and will actually take money away from proven measures like border patrol agents and cameras.
Maybe Donald needs to expand his TV repertoire to include Game of Thrones so he can see just how far a "big beautiful wall" gets you against people determined to get across...
How long will it take for the “News Media” to wake up and start reporting on the real issues happening to this country vs. allowing themselves to be sucked in to the sideshow circus being put on by our government?
News media today is sucked into sensationalism of big numbers or the get the widow interview. One give the feeling of powerlessness due to the size the other are one-offs.
When are you going to get away from the 140 text sound bites and start explaining to the public what is affecting their world and it’s impact. Newspapers were the great educators of the current day events that effect our lives, making us informed voters. Now you are just tabloids, that are just as shallow as the stories you are reporting.
1
The Trump wall is already a symbol of his administration's ignorant political bent. It will never be built, but those billions of dollars will disappear into the pockets of various greedy interests. Better than build a wall, just write checks to all those poor white people who want a target for their dissatisfaction.
While Trump rants about building a wall to keep out murderous undocumented workers, the country has had 11 shootings on school property since Jan. 1, and roughly the 50th of the academic year. Looks like you are more likely to be killed on a school ground by citizens than by "illegals" anywhere else.
1
Recall that East Germany had a wall, albeit to keep people in, but to make it work they had supplement it with guard towers to shoot anyone that went near it.
The Wall or some form of Border Security is a must = We must stop people before they enter the US or we will just have more illegal aliens to deal with.
We must end chain migration. I don't want people bringing their grandparents here so that they can get them on Medicaid and other health programs. Stop Chain Migration.
We must end the diversity visa lottery and also end TPS legislatively. We don't need either of these programs. They have turned into backdoors to permanent US residency which let people come to the US who are not thoroughly vetted and who do not leave when told to go .
3
We need a wall....around Trump!
6
Good call Chuck. Take your ball. Go home. Tell your mom. If you thought Trump and the Republicans used you last weekend...you ain't seem nothin' yet.
4
*have not seen anything*
What is this wall? Some critical thinking, please.
1
Is Chuck up to the job?
1
The Democrats should announce that they are in favor of all the wall that the President can get Mexico to pay for.
5
Trump is a master negotiator.... Chuck is an amateur. Sweet!
4
Amazing.
Our United States of America government shut down because the Democrats are laser focused on a few hundred thousand illegal aliens, who are not even citizens and for whom their is no path to citizenship.
This is a text book lesson plan in how to lose elections. Show all of America that your passion is everything BUT: Americans
truly spectacular strategy.
10
Truly spectacular that you missed this: some 80% + of Americans polled favor and support DACA.
Next.
Guess what my fellow Americans Putin has won! Just look at the lack of leadership and stupidity we see on a daily basis coming from the White House and Republicans in Congress. I doubt even in his wildest dreams he did not imagine such a successful outcome as this.
2
Trying NOT to stay abreast of the news these days..... but wasn't Mexico supposed to be paying for the wall!!! Can the guy from Des Moines or some of the other crazy Trump supporters explain why I am now being asked to pay for it??
5
18 billion for a mostly worthless and unneeded wall...explain that to the folks in Houston, Puerto Rico, Florida...crumbling bridges and highways everywhere...give it up!
6
It’s “off the table”?
But it was just “on the table” as you did your little dance with Trump last Friday.
The quicker Democrats ditch Schumer the better.
As one of the other pro-illegal alien articles in the NYT declares today, the Democrats believe they are saving immigrants. Immigrants that follow US immigration law don’t need saving by Democrats.
The Democrats seem to actually believe that when the American people say immigration reform they mean only amnesty for illegals.
10
Wall...5,000 more ICE/INS Officers...No more refugees...Enforce I-90...No Lottery Visas...No more "Anchor Babies"
Then you get your precious "Dreamers" who yell, curse and demand that we let them stay, like if I would miss them if they were arrested and deported in the middle of the night.
6
Hey, Canada, America has a highly educated, productive, English-speaking work force that a cabal of Southern, rural American racists cannot abide & insist on abusing-as a close family member, can you look after the kids until we work out out this ugly domestic problem?
Sincerely, your cousin, the USA
5
Would you welcome them in Brookline?
2
Canadians or Dreamers, Sealant?
It doesn’t matter, the answer to your question is yes.
Shouldn't the president of Mexico be involved in any immigration talks that include The Wall? After all his country will be paying for it. (Ha!)
4
It should be a straight DACA vote. Green card with clear path to citizenship. The wall is stupid, even Kelly says so. Truth is, Trump could care less about it too. All he cares about is covering up his Russia corruption.
1
I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall.
3
Shhh....
It's a trap. The Democrats allow Trump fund his wall and the during the campaign remind people: "Who paid for the wall? YOU paid for the wall!"
1
All in all, Chuck's just a - nother brick in the wall.
2
Schumer, the Jell-o senator.
4
No worries, Mexico's buying.
2
Obama built castles on sand. Why are the lefties surprised when the changing tide washes them away? All the leftie jabber is just double talk. Its great and constitutional when we do it, but YOU cant play by the same rules. Childish.
3
Why are the Dems more concerned about illegals than US citizen's?
Sad for the dreamers but they need to return to their countries or orgin and apply like anyone else. Why should they be rewarded for their parents crimes? Its like saying the kids of bank robbers should be able to keep the loot if they want it.
7
Come on Chuck, you know you're gonna fold....
2
Hey, the DACA thing will go through or the GOP will look atrocious. So they’ll try to lard it up with ICE initiatives and try to label the Dems as smuggling in murderous border crossers.
The smart move here is to keep DACA separate from any government closure, separate from anything the GOP wants, and let them propose their lurid schemes and then shut the govt down.
Because a clean opposition to DACA would paint the GOP as monsters, the GOP cannot vote against DACA support unless they succeed in attaching DACA and the Dems to a tar baby again, a mess the Dems just escaped from.
Let’s hope the Dems can hold it together this time and force the GOP out into the open, baldly attempting inhuman misery.
2
Good old Chuckie!! Pandering to the rabid liberals looking to add to their voting base. As long as Chuck and Nancy are in charge, the dems will continue to lose elections, respect or the ability to change anything in a meaningful way!!
2
Schumer should never have put the wall in play. If the Democrats have anyone as stupid as Trump, it is certainly Schumer!
So Senate Democrats are against border security and for unlimited illegal migration forever.
No border, no country.
2
The Democrats are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they had kept the shutdown going they risked losing a large swath of centrist support. By "caving" they ostensibly did their jobs; negotiating with the GOP to reopen the government but they alienated the progressive side of the Democratic base. I am not sure why Schumer thought this was a good time to say the Wall was off the table. Any halfway decent poker player knows you shouldn't show your cards when the game is still in play. It won't matter though. Stephen Miller and the Freedom Caucus will torpedo any attempt to come to an acceptable resolution on DACA. When that happens families will be ripped asunder and America will commit crimes against humanity that must be documented in excruciating detail so Trump's cruelty is displayed for all the world to see. Then we must hope there are still enough good hearted, empathetic citizens left in this county to distinguish right from wrong and vote these thugs out of office. As for the Dreamers I do not hold out much hope for their future with the Trump junta still in charge. I don't I hold out much hope for the rest of us either.
1
Sen. Schumer knows how to manage "the gelatine orange boy": "No DACA no Wall"... and "even with DACA: NO WALL"...Just another white elephant in the budget; clearly, "a monument to stupidity"
: George S. Patton.
Trump knows nothing about history. The Chinese, with various "real walls" were still conquered by the Mongols in the 13th century. Totally useless even in those times.
1
Sorry Chuck, you don't have any power.
3
I think the use of the word "renege" to describe Sen. Shumer's decision to pull wall funding from a proposed deal with the President, is editorializing in a news story. Knock it off NYT.
1
I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall? Tell Trump he can build the wall when he gets the money from Mexico and move on.
3
Trump did not say he would build a wall. He said he would build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. Let him keep his campaign promise - the U.S. taxpayers are in no way obliged to provide a single penny.
12
Trump says he can make Mexico pay by increasing border crossing fees, taxing remittances, and tweaking the NAFTA trade agreement.
1
Sweetheart,
American citizens will pay your border fees, too. Tweaks to NAFTA will cause prices here to go up, and American citizens will be compelled to pay those higher prices.
That isn't making Mexico pay. That is making Americans pay.
Taxing remittances after already taxing income? That would be cruel. As it is, immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits and services. They help fund Social Security and Medicare.
Thank you for your comment.
William Case wrote:
"Trump says he can make Mexico pay by increasing border crossing fees, taxing remittances, and tweaking the NAFTA trade agreement."
1
The Democratic "alternative" was to pay for the wall!
Are you kidding me Chuck?!?!?!?
No wonder, despite years of unending political opportunity, and the chance to win by doing the right and brave thing for the American people, Democrats keep on imploding (and losing!).
Disgraceful. But truly, getting what you deserve (that's not just them, but all of us). Woe is me? YES.
3
Senator Schumer is playing the long game and will win on many fronts. The likely trajectory of action is as follows:
1. Senator McConnell will allow a debate on immigration. While contentious it will result in a legislative resolution to the DACA issue in the Senate. At that point, the issue will be put into the hands of House Speaker Ryan and the GOP.
2. The House Republicans will be unable to enact any immigration legislation because of the opposition of their most radical Members, even as the arbitrary deadline set by the President draws near.
3. The Democrats will demand that Ryan put a clean DACA bill on the floor, where it would easily pass, but Ryan will not do so because of his Party's opposition.
4. The deadline will draw near, a sense of crisis will worsen and Republicans will be cast as racists.
5. The deadline will pass and people will start to be rounded up. At that point, the President and GOP will be left with the choice of solving the problem they created or being wiped out in the Fall elections. They will cave. And any deported people covered by DACA will be allowed to return.
Certainly, this is an awful way to run our government, but Republicans cannot govern, as they are about to prove again.
16
The Republicans won't pass a "clean DACA" bill. If they did, the president wouldn't sign it. Here is a solution that good for everybody.
1. The House passes a immigration bill that (1) grants DACA enrollees citizenship or legal residence status, (2) strengthens border security, (3) deters future illegal immigration and (4) replaces “chain immigration” with a merit-based immigration policy.
2. Republicans push the bill through the Senate by using the "nuclear option" to override the Senate's 60-vote rule, which would permit them stop a filibuster and pass the bill with 51 votes, with the vice president casting a tiebreaking vote, if necessary.
3. Trump signs the bill.
4. The Dreamer's dream comes true. Americans get an immigration deal that's good for America.
If you really want to stop illegal immigration do the following: the CEO of any company that is found to have hired an illegal alien goes to jail for a mandatory one year sentence, illegal immigrants receive no federal benefits (medical care, school, welfare, social security, etc.). Remove the incentive to come here at any cost.
15
Rich, sounds reasonable. However, one must catch the illegal immigrant first and I recall the recent uproar when 7/11 stores were raided. In order to prosecute the illegal employer the illegal employee/immigrant must be captured first. Besides, I can see a lot of California residents going to jail over your plan since they embrace employing illegals for slave labor.
4
What would be gained by a wall anyway? There isn’t a wall in existence that can’t be defeated by a ladder one foot taller than the wall and rope. Not to mention that half of the places this “big, beautiful wall” would defend are barren desert filled will all manner of aggressive, venomous animals. Our southern border has God-granted defenses.
4
Allow the DACA recipients to get sponsored by their current companies so they can get in the H-1B visa line, along with the rest of the legal immigrants. They need to go through the legal process just like everyone else, not be handed an unfair advantage over those who are trying to stay and work in this country legally.
DACA recipients who went to college could have gotten on the path of legal immigration by applying as an international student which is what they technically are. They would have received an F-1 student visa allowing them to study, stay, and work while they were in college. Afterwards, they could have tried to find a company to sponsor them. But they chose not to. Yes, they didn't have a choice when they were brought to the US by their parents as kids but when they turned 18 and chose not to take the legal path, then they also made the choice of getting benefits as an illegal immigrant over waiting in line with the legal ones.
5
It is true that "unlawful presence" does not accrue for those under age 18. However, an individual "out of status" could not change their status, and would have to apply at a Consulate outside the US for a visa, where they would need to show ability to pay tuition (not become a public charge) and that they had a "nonimmigrant intent". Form DS-160 also asks where the parents are. The chances of that person getting an F-1 visa is pretty remote.
Having said that, if Congress wants a DACA fix, they should include children who are here legally as well - Indian and Chinese natives can wait years for an immigrant visa.
1
Easy for you to say - and I know this as I came here the long hard way, standing in line, getting a F1 visa etc. And it still took me a dozen plus years to become a citizen and thousands of dollars.
We all understand the law - but in this case, I am just fine with the DACA recipients getting normalized. They are as American as any citizens here, even more in some cases.
The article talks about the hard right conservatives and rightly so. However, no mention is made of hard left progressives. Exactly what are the plans of progressives to increase border security and is that even a real issue for them since they overwhelmingly support sanctuary for any and all illegal immigrants? Finally, holding the position that the senate cannot act because it does not know what Trump wants is ludicrous. Are both parties in the senate saying that they are going to give trump what he wants? If not, why not create some legislation. If so, well, both sides just got sold out by their respective parties because their job is not to please a president, any president. If the senate can come up with reasonable legislation they have the power to override a veto. Heck, they can override a veto for bad legislation if they choose to do so. In reality, both sides are grandstanding with absolutely no intentions of doing anything except stirring up angry people so that they can be re elected.
7
There can be no DACA deal as long as the GOP holds any part of Congress.
Thus, the Dreamers will have to wait until the next Congress comes into session in 2019. Even if the Senate comes up with a deal, Ryan does not have the backbone to stand up to the extremists in his own caucus. Trump is afraid of his base, and is influenced by John Kelly who is either a liar or is psychotic. (Witness his lies regarding Rep. Wilson.)
Since most Americans want an agreement on DACA and comprehensive immigration reform, we ought to give control of Congress to the Democrats.
The United States is US. We get the government we deserve.
4
Why? It costs the Democrats virtually nothing. The wall is going to take 10 years to build when all is said and done. Even if money is allocated this year, construction wont' start for a few years due to normal government bureaucracy. Add in challenges by the states and private entities whose land the wall will have to cross; and it's doubtful that it would even begin construction into 2020.
In exchange for a wall that will likely never be built, you get DACA with some form of chain migration pertaining to DACA ( e.g. their parents)? You take away the negative immigration issue from the GOP in 2018 and 2020 and you can then attack the GOP and Trump for wasting the money and not building the wall.
The liberal base needs to understand that shutting down the government doesn't work. It doesn't give the party that initiates the shut down what they ultimately want. All it does it make people hate BOTH parties in Washington. There's no actual Dream Act so there's nothing for the Dems to demand a vote on. The Dems have no power and no cards. Schumer did the best he could with a bad hand--he bluffed, McConnell called the bluff, he folded to fight another day. The goal is to get control of Congress and the White House. That means winning some red areas. Things that take away from that are counter productive.
Dems get what they want with DACA, the GOP get a Pyrrhic victory that will turn into a liability in years to come. Why can't the left see that?
"In exchange for a wall that will likely never be built, you get DACA:"....DACA is a moral issue. You should never ever negotiate a moral issue.
4
However, this is the real world. In the real world, many things, including moral issues, may reasonably be negotiated.
1
"As part of a deal to end the shutdown, Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, promised what he called a “fair and open” immigration debate on the Senate floor.
"But just when that debate will happen, and what legislation will serve as its starting point, was unclear on Tuesday."
In other words, the Dems were, once again, in full capitulation mode. An opposition party that holds zero power, has only one option - to remain steadfast on their principles, so that when they have a chance to regain power, they appear to be a party that can be trusted.
Pffft.
2
the GOP has set a trap for the Dems in order to shift the focus on Trump and onto immigration. this will favor them in the 2018 elections since many voters are more concerned over illegal immigration than they are upset over Trump. The GOP will fan the issue of sanctuary cities and the deaths of white Americans at the hands of illegal immigrants who lived (and are living) free and loose in these cities. And the far left progressives (Pelosi, Harris, Feinstein) are like lemmings heading for the cliff.
3
If Trump asked for $18 billion to build the wall, why did Schumer offer $25 billion?
Because Mexico wants a refund.
1
Donald Trump is President today because the New York Times, Hillary Clinton, and their followers decided there was no difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants. Turns out there they were wrong again. I assume they also approve of ignoring the laws pertaining to abortion rights, workplace sexual harassment, and racial discrimination. We get to pick and choose, right.
13
"Donald Trump is President today because the New York Times, Hillary Clinton, and their followers decided there was no difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants.:"....You are essential saying that a two year old child should be punished for the fact that their parents broke the law. Do you really think that is morally right?
5
No I think the law is the law in all the areas I mentioned and it should apply to everyone. Pro-life proponents might rightly use the same morality question as you did.
The average age of “Dreamers” enrolled in DACA is 24 years old.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/25/key-facts-about-unauthor...
A path to citizenship for Dreamers should be a requisite part of any final agreement, humanitarian considerations aside. We have spent billions to educate these young people and they have clearly demonstrated their ability to be productive citizens. Why in the world would we want to deport them now just when our investment is about to pay off? They should be elevated to first in line for any merit based immigration program.
2
There is a very simple answer to the wall vs DACA. Tell Trump et al that he can have his wall as long as he meets his promise that Mexico will pay for it. That was what he campaigned on. DACA is then uncoupled from the discussion.
11
I think the Supreme Court will come up with a ruling that keeps Daca in place, at least temporarily.
At this point I'd like to see three years of nothing but short term extender bills keeping the government open and 400,000 DACA people attempt to turn themselves in and apply for asylum at the D.C. INS offices on March 6 and DEMAND that they be housed, fed and have their medical needs attended to as required by law while they wait.
2
The Congress should pass Graham-Durbin NOW hopefully with veto proof majorities, in order to force trump's hand. Fact is, this bill has 70+ Senators supporting it, and likely an overwhelming majority in the House as well, starting with the Democratic minority.
As to the rest of the republican "issues" they can be handled in another bill. Fact is, the president created this moral crisis through his executive order and therefore the onus is on HIM to sign the bill sent from congress to remedy his mistake.
2
The president did not cancel DACA. Obama had unlawfully implemented through Executive Order circumventing the laws our land. Pres Trump merely said that we are a nation of laws and the congress needed to pass legislation to resolve the DACA issues. This is strictly IAW the U.S. Constitution and was the right thing to do. Any legislation on DACA must include coming to grips with Chain Migration, the Immigration Lottery and the "Wall." All issues must be part of the solution. If that can be done by 8 February, great. If not, the original date of 9 March should be acceptable. What is not acceptable is shutting down the government at the expense of our military and other government workers who protect this nation. To place illegal immigrants before our U.S. citizens is nonsense and middle America, and I hope all of America, does not support such ridiculous action. We must stop illegal immigration through the Mexio/USA border and the "wall" must be part of any DACA solution.
12
DACA is a moral issue. Illegal immigration in the future is a functional issue - what is the most effective and efficient way to prevent it. The two are not related, and in any case you should never negotiate a moral issue.
4
The president is the one who has shut down the government because he wants the American taxpayer to pay for the wall. Congress refuses, as they should. He has taken DACA hostage because he can't accept that the American taxpayer knows he is a failure and a liar. Comprehensive immigration reform will solve the illegal immigration issue, not the wall.
The strategy of Schumer and Pelosi started well. Republicans had refused to renew funding of CHIP (70+ days beyond its expiration). Democrats threatened to block the funding bill to protect children. Republicans agreed to include CHIP.
But, thereafter, Democrats lost the messaging debate. They should have broadcast loud and clear, taking credit for getting a commitment to fund CHIP and adding that they were also going to protect Dreamers. Instead, Republican messaging took credit for CHIP and blamed Democrats for shutting down government to protect illegal immigration over American workers.
Ill advised by Democrat senators like Klobuchar and Manchin, Schumer and Pelosi caved. Had they kept the government shut down they could have taken the time and attention to get their message back on track that Democrats were protecting children. The Republicans would have caved, certainly before DJT had to give his state of the union speech.
Now we truly are back to square one. Right now it looks like Democrats will cave completely on Feb. 8 - agree to fund the Wall, add to military spending, cut Obamacare revenues more ... Great job, Schumer and Pelosi
1
Mr. Schumer didn't "renege" as stated in this article. He offered to support funding for the wall during his "Cheese Burger" negotiation with President Trump. President Trump agreed, but then HE RENEGED a few hours later. When President Trump reneged, that started the negotiations with a clean slate.
Anyhow, wouldn't it be much more responsible to pave over our potholes rather than build a wall which is nothing more than an ego trip for Mr. Trump? It's widely acknowledge that the wall won't make our borders more secure.
2
I have the distinct impression that the Democratic delegation in Congress is incompetent. I'm actually wondering if they aren't secretly on the RNC payroll.
Standing firm and pointing out the fraudulence of the GOP is not partisan if it is true.
Failing to address the lies and the opaque system through which the GOP disseminate them is an abrogation of duty.
You are not talking the higher path you are failing utterly to use what little leverage you have, the truth.
1
No, the wall isn't really off the table. Schumer will just put it back on whenever he thinks it necessary. Disgusting.
1
Why should the wall be on the table? Isn't Mexico paying for it? Why should the American taxpayer pay for it? This was one of his most welcomed campaign promises. Did he lie?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Beautifully stated by a Republican President. Mr. Trump, another Republican President: "Build this wall" or we will deport 800,000 Americans. Ironically, both positions enthusiastically supported by the Republican party. The American people don't want this wall.
3
Laughable Schumer positioning. There will be no DACA deal unless there is a border wall, the end of chain migration and the visa lottery.
Also, insofar as the DACA people go, if any of these so called "Dreamers" doesn't fit the profile of success---you know, they have committed a crime or some such....no protections should be afforded such.
5
I think most people can get behind a plan that allows the DACA folks to stay.
I think less are likely to support the DACA folks staying with a path to citizenship.
I think this country has to form a firm policy in regards to economic migrants and those claiming asylum in the future. Whatever deal is made has to make it very clear that no more people who come here illegally, in the future, are going to be allowed to stay. We need to make it clear that sad stories, and terrible self-created situations, are not going to obligate this country to provide for non-citizens.
I fear that none of this will happen. The Democratic Party seems unwilling to limit illegal immigration in any way. Give them DACA and they will push for all the TPS programs to be reinstated. Give them that and they will push for the 11 million to be legalized.
And we must be aware that legalizing the DACA folks is going to immediately draw more people here. Thousands of additional children will be put into harms way and abused because of our Democratic Party sponsored policy of letting anyone, and everyone, with a pulse and a sad story the ability to enter our nation illegally and stay.
5
Your assertions run counter to reality. Pres. Obama deported more people than the previous three presidents combined. For that, Pres. Obama was roundly condemned by immigration advocates.
You may recall that Pres. Obama is a member of the Democratic Party.
I think the Dems need to call the Repubs bluff and say go ahead and deport the Dreamers. My guess is it will be a disaster. My question is why the Repubs are opposed to any overhaul of the immigration laws. The have fought reform for 20 years. Expose their hypocrisy!
Clearly border walls help with border security.
Ask the Israelis.
Ask the Border Patrol in San Diego.
Are walls perfect? No.
Do we need a wall across the entire border? No.
Beefing up the border strategically including more walls is a reasonable strategy.
One must question the absolute refusal of Democrats to want to do anything at all to stop future illegal aliens from entering. The more the merrier, apparently.
I think the reason Democrats are so confused is that Trump is steadily, one by one, delivering on the promises he made during his campaign. Democrats are too used to politicians having a public face and a private one.
6
Like Mexico paying for the wall? How about meeting that promise? How about the putting half the money that a wall would cost into rehab centers and drug education that will prevent more crime than any wall. By the way, how will the wall stop drones from flying over it or the increasing large amount of drugs being manufactured or grown within the US? Or how about penalizing and jailing the wealthy owners of the Agriculture businesses who knowingly hire illegal aliens to increase their profit creating a market enticing more illegal alien to come here. Walls do not work. Diminishing demand is far more effective. As always this is about profit at the higher levels. Remove the profit and most of the problem goes away.
Schumer owns DACA. Trump owns the wall. There will not be one without the other. The sooner Schumer comes to this realization the better off he and the Dems will be.
I see offer no nothing so the fate of DACA can be a campaign issue during the next election cycle. People-what are those?
The republicans do not want DACA because they view these people as future Democrats. Just another chapter in their voter suppression handbook.
2
Yesterday at Disneyworld the Dreamers blocked the entrance to this famous site. They have a lot of nerve making demands and this will not help their cause. They came here illegally and they should count their lucky stars that the Democrats are fighting for their right to stay. They should be grateful and yet they are a bunch of ingrates. This will make them unpopular with Americans if they keep this up.
3
The Border Wall is symbolic. The point is not to have a wall that prevents all people from entering.
The wall would be a symbol of a grand bargain- it would represent a promise- that conservatives will back allowing the DACA folks to stay on the solemn promise that we are not going to do this anymore.
Those on the left get their 800,000 good feelings- but in exchange they agree to stop doing this every ten years.
Fund a policy that prevents the need for future DACA and TPS programs and compromise can probably be achieved.
But the Democratic Party is not in this fight for DACA. They are in this fight for the next ten DACAs. They want a temporary agreement on this 800,000 with no agreement to cover the future- guarantying we will do this again.
And again. And again. And again. And we will all wake up one day and see that there are 40 kids per classroom. Every house on the market has 12 offers. Wages going down- year after year. Ever higher levels of pollution.
And big smiles on the faces of a small minority of our citizens who have sacrificed all of our shared resources to make themselves feel better.
2
Nine in ten Americans favor legislation protecting Dreamers. This is a win-win for the Democrats. If the govt. shuts down again in February over this single issue, the GOP will be held responsible. Stand firm. No wall. No deal without DACA legislation.
now there's something to shut down the government over
If the Democrats were not so hopeless at messaging they would be on the Sunday political shows every week reminding the American public that they should NOT BE FOOTING THE BILL for a racist wall Trump swore during the election Mexico would pay for. "Why are hard working Americans (from mostly blue states who fill the federal governments coffers, not the red states) paying for a wall Trump said another country would pay for?" Its absurd and people should realize Mexico's government was OPEN those 3 days when ours was not. Trump has us looking like total fools to the rest of the world. No DACA,No Deal
It's not reneging; it's withdrawing an offer that was not accepted. Looks like the editor was asleep at the wheel.
No doubt Trump would love to pocket Schumer's concession and then ask for more but Schumer's no fool; he knows how to negotiate. You want to get a particular concession then make the deal or it may go away.
No border wall no DACA. Chuck Schumer promised he would agree to fund a border wall if the 800,000 illegal immigrants that were allowed to stay under Obama's DACA plan from 2010 were given legal status. He probably never intended to agree to a border wall or border security and was perfectly fine with allowing more illegals flowing into our country without any vetting. The Democrats have been losing voters and this would certainly increase their numbers. These dreamers are most likely to vote for the liberal Democratic Party who supported their cause.
Many Americans feel those who came as children should stay but there should be a border wall and more strict security. This is not helping the Democrats cause which few people will support. We should not allow chain migration as this is unfair to those who are patiently waiting to enter legally. We have laws for a reason and they must be strictly enforced. No exceptions to those who break our laws.
Anarchy is the word for our "government."
Some form of permanent status for DACA is a moral issue. Preventing future illegal immigration is a functional issue regarding what method or methods would be most effective and cost efficient. You can debate and negotiate functional issues. You cannot and should not ever negotiate moral issues.
1
What America needs: a wall, the end of illegal decisions, such as the creation of DACA, Dreamers, deportations of all illegals, elimination of visa lottery, restrictions on legal immigration, merit based, end of chain immigration, end of anchor babies, e-verify mandatory.
Favoring citizens.
1
Practicality and pragmatism are also necessary. Say that Democrats lose seats based on a government shutdown. Then, the Republicans can impose Draconian measures on issues that we are not even thinking about.
1
The Dems have to prepare a media blitz replaying McConnell’s promise and his protests to come that he has “kept his word”. In addition the media blitz has to make clear that the GOP resistance to DACA is not about “illegal immigration” but about support for inhumanity and racism.
Keep DACA separated from the immigration issue, and make the public aware of what DACA is and that the GOP is a vicious inhuman travesty.
6
If Trump still believes Mexico will pay for the wall, why is funding it at all an issue? Determining the design and placement is a matter for the Executive branch. Congress should inform Trump that its his promise that Mexico will pay for the wall, so he should not ask the US taxpayers for a single penny.
14
With the recent tax cuts how exactly is this wall getting paid for, since Mexico isn't paying? Oh yeah, that middle class ATM that the Republicans are milking dry. Maybe it's more important to Trump supporters to demonize immigrants while quietly letting the Republicans destroy their financial security.
10
"Renege" is improperly and unfairly used in the third graf. Funding for the wall was offered only in the context of give-and-take – as part of a negotiated deal. "If you do A and B, we'll do X and Y." To no one's surprise, it wasn't a unilateral offer, as it surely didn't represent the Democratic party's position on The Wall in and of itself. It was a *concession* offered in return for something else. Potus killed deal, and thus all if its component, interdependent parts. That's fundamental to the art of the deal. It can fairly be inferred from reports that if anyone reneged, it was Trump.
7
The only issue that should be a NO, is the wall.
1
Raising in the hope of filling an inside straight is not a good strategy. I hope the senate dems can pull it off.
2
Yeah! 'The Wall' is beyond stupid - expensive, ineffective, harmful, ugly, and immoral. Only such as Trump* could imagine it a good idea.
4
They should all lose their jobs. This Congress is a disgrace to America.
9
Mr. Schumer should NOT withdraw what he promised but expand the negotiation to encompass the ENTIRE CONTEXT of President Trump's campaign promise
Sometimes pundits and politicians take a relatively straightforward issue and forget the complete context. President Trump promise he would build a wall across the U.S. southern border that MEXICO, not the U.S. Treasury will pay for. Congress can debate and agree on OTHER SENSIBLE and REASONABLE border security measures.
Make whatever funding Mr. Trump wants for his wall a SEPARATE ISSUE with funding by the U.S. Government CONTINGENT on President Trump using his exclusive authority in foreign affairs to FIRST secure an enforceable commitment from the Mexican government TO PAY FOR IT.
3
Nothing will happen on immigration. The Dems have too much to loose by doing a deal that funds the Wall, ends chain migration and ends the lottery system while allowing the Dreamers to stay. If chain migration is broken, the Dems will loose to many future immigrant voters to too few potential Dreamer voters. Looks like Schumer will sacrifice the Dreamers rather than sacrifice the future of the Dem electoral future.
2
If the Democrats do not make a serious, underscore serious, anti-illegal-immigration proposal, they will not only lose on the Dreamers, they will not achieved the majority's they seek next November. Couple the Dreamers with a serious enforceable anti-illegal immigration proposal, and all possibilities are open.
6
Yesterday on NPR Trump's deputy press person said the offer from Schumer had been for 1.8 B in funding, not 18, let alone 25. I think the wall is a stupid idea (venal base bait), but what is the truth?
I see NO importance in building a Wall between USA and Mexico. None.
I also see NO importance in a shallow, political gesture to help "poor innocent dreamers".....they're Adults!
...
The political bickering over both of these meaningless line items in a budget is leading us nowhere good.
Abandon BOTH of these worthless projects and do something Positive for Americans instead.
Stop worrying about the rest of the world.
3
Trump promised that his wall would be paid for by Mexico. He PROMISED. Democrats should keep reminding him, over and over, as loudly as they can.
17
Wow. What a huge victory for us democrats. Thanks so much Schumer. GOP gets everything they want and democrats get to NOT have a big dumb stupid wall that was never going to be built anyway. I think paper-tiger Schumer works for Trump. He was on his TV show, compliments Trump and eats cheeseburgers with him. They should do another TV show together. Good cop, bad cop.
2
I am so tired of hearing about this border wall which would be exorbitantly expensive, difficult to build and quite ineffective. It would be nice if people would actually study the logistics of their proposals and promises and then follow up with admitting that they made a mistake and instead propose something which makes sense.
To hold DACA hostage to the wall travesty makes no sense to me. If you must consider wall legislation, wouldn't it be good to consider it on its own merits or lack of them. Is congress incapable of splitting issues apart and doing them one at a time?
3
How did DACA and that stupid wall become the most important issues in the country? Our "leaders" have gone mad.
10
The border wall is a massive tax-payer expenditure for a problem the country does not have. Illegal immigration has been steadily declining for years. Also, studies conducted in many parts of the country have demonstrated that all types of immigration can revitalize cities and counties in decline.
Meanwhile, the real problems are going unsolved while the Republicans create problems and then play politics with them. Could someone focus on our schools, our roads, our airports, making the country safer from floods and wildfire? Please, someone, conduct an objective, cost-benefit analysis on this wall and let me know how it compares with other projects that will solve real problems.
6
As the US descends into an ever-more oppressive autocracy, a wall might be needed to keep rational Americans from fleeing. Every indication says American democracy is death-bound, and though it has some distance to fall until it crashes, the eventual end is palpable to anyone familiar with the end of democracies around the world.
First comes the populist supported by the country's rabble, then politicians cave in and the Armed Forces fold, then a mafia of oligarchs begins to form and protect the autocrat, then the institutions crumble - with the Judiciary the first to fall - and finally businesses and industries are repurposed to feed the emerging dictatorship.
All of this happens with most of the public blissfully unaware, like the proverbial frog in heating water, until it is too late and there is no way back. The demise of American Democracy is on its way - a wall along its borders should be the least of concerns to thinking Americans.
4
Effective border security might be possible, but it would be very expensive.
A physical barrier alone would not be effective. For every 10 foot wall, there's an 11 foot ladder.
Effective border security would require surveillance of the kind used to separate east and west Germany...accordion wire, mines, watch towers with search lights and machine guns at 200 meter intervals.
The major beneficiaries of a physical barrier...fence, wall, whatever... would be those who are payed to build it, construction companies and their employees. The labor employed would most likely be illegal immigrants from Mexico. There is no other source of labor in this location.
Effective border security would damage busynesses in the Southwest US, for example, construction, hospitality and landscape gardening.
Illegal immigration might be reduced by sanctions on employers who hire illegals. This would be expensive to enforce and political opposition to it would be significant.
3
How can Sen. Schumer consistently be so much worse at this than Sen. McConnell? You'd think he'd learn at some point. He picks fights where the Democrats can only lose: either they lose on the issue, or they're branded as obstructionist when "winning" by shutting down the government (or both, as with the last round).
Schumer need only mock Trump relentlessly for having said that Mexico would pay for the wall. That's the only way to erode support from the Republican base for funding the wall. Repetition and branding: that's what the Republicans do well to catch voters who don't follow the news very closely. Democrats need to start coordinating some mocking one-liners for the border wall and for DACA. No Democrat making the case that these are Americans is as loud as Ted Cruz saying the word "illegal" over and over again.
Pulling the border wall offer off the table rather than insisting on something in return just looks like obstructionism rather than hardball. And to have chosen to hang DACA's fate on the budget, even though it could win on its own in Congress, further fuels the irrational-crybaby image that Republicans have of Democrats. I don't see how any of this is going to win over voters in the midterms; Democrats are just sticking with their strategy of identity politics, even though they could so easily win if they branded the Republican policies by how wrongheaded they are.
2
“Senator Schumer is trying to rescind an offer that he never made in the first place, and misled the public about,”
There was about $20 billion in wall funding (the administration originally asked for $18B) in the Durbin/Flake/Graham bill that Trump changed his mind on last week. Trump's list of demands keep changing.
1
"As part of a deal to end the shutdown, Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, promised what he called a “fair and open” immigration debate on the Senate floor."
Shouldn't debate on all issues in front of congress be 'fair and open?'
3
Vetting for immigration became more stringent under both W and Obama. Illegal border crossings from Mexico have been on the decline for several years. Deportations rose under President Obama. There is absolutely no need for a wall. It is racism, not sound policy, that drives trump's wall nonsense. Being unfit for office, he is not capable of distinguishing between applause lines with deplorables and actual well-considered policy initiatives.
Using the Dreamers as a bargaining chip is reprehensible. They must be protected because it is the right thing to do. Building a wall is the wrong thing to do.
4
The only thing that came out of this side show of brinkmanship was that Federal Employees and Congress are still going to get payed. What a bunch of wasted cycles over nothing.
1
Here is my take on this problem. The House and the Senate can come to an agreement on DACA and other matters. They can get the votes they need to pass the bill. However their leaders, McConnell and Ryan are totally intimidated by the President and do not have the will to oppose him. They are calling the shots and ignoring their fellow people in congress. So the separation of power is no longer relevant and the king and ruler totally controls congress. This has to stop.
3
Good to know the stupid wall is off the table. A wall made sense eons ago in China, but today we have drones, hi- tech tracing devices, etc. The last political wall in was torn down in Germany. Good riddance to all walls! Trump is just a child who likes to build things with his toy blocks!
2
What I don't get is why the Democrats are not asking the President why he insists that budget on the Wall be included in the negotiations, when he says that Mexico will pay for the Wall. The Wall should never have been part of the negotiations in the first place. Now to withhold the Wall just says that US will pay for the Wall.
Right from the get-go anyone with a brain could reason that a 1,954 wall is an absurdity. Add in that Mexico would pay for it and anyone who swallowed this should have had their sanity questioned.
Now, Trump will do anything to not appear foolish, even waste billions of dollars and harm many good people by linking this travesty to DACA.
The Republican Party is not the party that I was once a member of. It pretends to care about working people so they can get their votes, but if you examine their immigration proposals you get a clearer understanding. If you are trying to immigrate you need to be a rich investor or a highly skilled worker who will work for less than American skilled workers. Everyone else, plumbers, truck drivers, are not valued.
Both sides of the political aisle profess to a support for DACA. So why not do what they agree to? The reality is the Republicans want to shut down legal immigration of the less fortunate and will hold DACA participants hostage until they get what they want.
As for the wall, I think it should be built as soon as the first check from Mexico arrives to pay for it, as Mr. Trump promised.
It is particularly challenging to negotiate when Mr. Trump has to constantly run back to ask Stephen Miller to ask for permission.
1
Schumer has found yet another creative way not to do DACA. Why? Because if DACA is accomplished, what else can he do with himself. Pathetic!
This issue illustrates with perfect clarity the utter dysfunctionality of our government. Our two parties are at endless war with each other, with no impulse for cooperation, and no focus on the common good. It's all about scoring political points, and keeping the populace divided against itself. Anyone who thinks there will be any meaningful improvement if the Democrats regain control of one or both chambers of Congress is delusional. The pendulum will merely swing a little bit back in the other direction, and the partisan fighting will continue. The only "gain" will be that the Democrats will be able to thwart the Republican agenda (assuming they have the unity). Our political system -
and perhaps our country as a whole - is hopelessly broken. Unless we can find a way to break the two-party stranglehold, we are doomed to a future of futile gridlock and polarization.
2
Of course, I left out the most important objective of our esteemed "representatives" - rewarding the big-money donors.
First to the fellow that said that once an offer is on the table it can't be withdrawn the operative concept is that an offer is made and is either accepted or rejected, or it acts as a starting point for more discussion. But, once clearly rejected it is gone, unless the party making it decides to keep it open. In this case the president's rejection was so clear and convincing that it would be ridiculous to keep the offer open.
Second, what this entire episode teaches us (based upon this and their actions in destroying the administrative bureaucracy since Trump became president) is that they wish to bring the size and functioning of the government back to its status before the turn of the 20th Century. That means that they will allow the government of all the people provide for the military, emergencies, and the building and maintenance of our roads, highways, and road system. The other party, the Democrats, is seeking to bring the United States Government in line with almost every other first rate government in the World, with regard to medical care, immigration, and the services it provides for its people.
Thirdly, it seems clear that there are no viable areas of agreement between the two positions. In a Parliamentary democracy elections would be called for every seat in the legislature and the people would, by majority vote, decide which direction they wanted to go in. Its too bad we can't do that, because as of now our days as a World leader are over.
2
Immigration reform, including a path to citizenship for "dreamers": yes. The "wall" is just plain stupid on every level imaginable. But trying to convince Republican voters of that is impossible. They've been thoroughly conned, and all it took was a little red meat and white fear.
2
Let Mexico pay for the wall as per Trump's campaign promise and joyfully chanted by his supporters.
2
I think some Dems are wrong in castigating Mr. Schumer for reopening the government. Federal workers eventually get paid. It is all the ancillary services performed by little guys who never get back what they have lost. I applaud the group who want to govern and not obstruct. Would like to see McConnell go.
1
There's never going to be an "immigration deal", just too many hardliners who would prefer to see nothing done.
Even if you gave them their fully funded, moronic wall, there would still be no deal.
It's ironic that Schumer is taking so much heat, he can run circles around Harry Reid going backwards.
They may be able to get DACA, but they are going to have to fully fund the wall and agree to a host of repellent provisions that would be considered "non-starters" from the Bernie Sanders wing of the party.
As far as a "comprehensive immigration package", keep dreaming, never going to happen until Democrats control congress and the executive branch.
As a practical political matter, Democrats should reject DACA vs Wall chatter. DACA is a moral issue, and the Wall is mostly campaign drivel. DACA should be supported because it is simply the right thing to do. It has strong public support. On the other hand, a wall from sea to sea is impossible. Indeed, it is likely that under the rubric of border security something less will come about, but whatever it is will never satisfy the zealots.
Accordingly, and politically speaking, Democrats should stand four square behind the Dreamers (while eschewing an unpopular government shutdown) and let Republicans display themselves as heartless in using a moral issue as little more than a bargaining chip. Again I suggest that all Democrats of both Houses produce a public Declaration of Conscience in support of DACA, the idea being to offset their lack of Congressional power by going directly to the voter. Let Republicans say "no", and attack them for saying "no". Let's see how they think their "no" will cut in the upcoming election.
I despair that this issue has become so political, but that it has means it's time for hardball: "Republicans hate Dreamers and families".
1
As much as we despise suicide bombers, and other terrorists, one thing that we can say about them is that they believe in something strongly enough to give their lives for the cause. How many of us can say that...outside of our men and women in the military? We are a country that is so infatuated with money and power, and the idea of winning at any cost, that we stand for nothing...and the whole world is seeing it.
How does holding up the budget for DACA 3 weeks hence do anything for the political position for the Democratic senators up for election in Trump states? It does not. You will get exactly the same result. The position is untenable. If anything, you may see the Senate Majority Leader bring up the House plan and get it passed with 51 votes because the Democrats said no filibusters on this issue. He could send a Senate plan to the House that will reject it and again bring us back to square one.
With our educational institutes slowing failing, with people not being able to afford health/dental care, with occurrences of school shootings dramatically increasing, with an aging infrastructure deteriorating, with our freedom and human rights (including freedom of the press) being constantly attacked, with a huge federal deficit which just became larger, people are concerned with a border wall.
If someone told me 20...even 10 years ago that this would be a major political issue in 2018, I'd never have believed it. My only response is a sense of extreme shame and embarrassment. I'm just glad that my father (a WW2 Vet who saw bad action) is not around to witness this.
1
What folly we face with know nothing Trump. His government just passed a 'big, beautiful" tax cut we did not need. Now this same government wants billions for a "big, beautiful" wall we also do not need and billions more for other border security and expanded military. This is a vision of Armageddon, not a renewed America.
2
Le Enfant Terrible and his Twitter machine act must wear thin after awhile with those who are genuinely committed to finding solutions. On the DACA issue in particular one might think that a sense of humanity, decency and goodness might prevail. But no...the person we are looking to for those characteristics possesses none of those and, as such, the "debate" such as it is, will remain stuck.
1
It is counterproductive to to take "the wall" off the table. It seems like Senator Schumer is trying to keep it as a bargaining chip, but everyone already knows that he's willing to include it in a deal. It's transparent and possibly a miscalculation if it's only going to stoke the partisan fires.
It seems that the dreamers have become US citizens in every way but officially. If allowed to stay, they will make better citizens than Trump could ever hope to be given his ongoing acts of disloyalty to this country. Unfortunately, Democrats have very little leverage to protect the dreamers. They can either agree to fund the wall and heightened border security or they can shut down the government. Shutdown is the riskier path because it would require a level of determination that the Democrats have failed to show in the past. As distasteful as funding the wall is it is the surest way to accomplish the goal. On the bright side, if it is ultimately built it will stand as a monument to Republican ignorance.
1
So instead of Mexico paying for the [unfriendly, unnecessary, environmentally-deleterious] WALL, Trump is suggesting that DACA recipients pay for it with their livelihoods, futures and therefore their lives.
1
The president and his cohort of ideological fellow-travelers are going to change the leadership at the FBI to something more malleable, much like the Justice Department, which means the USA is going off the rails of democracy. We are in imminent danger of following Russia, Turkey, Hungary, Venezuela, The Philippines, et al, down the road to autocracy. My despair at the ignorance and willful blindness of this administration's supporters, especially the hypocritical, so-called Evangelicals, is tempered only until the mid-terms. If, after those, all three branches of government are still controlled by Trump, then the bloodless coup d'etat is completed.
When tax reform was being discussed, the NYT wrote an article that said Trump was threatening its success by refusing to consider a corporate rate above 20. My comment at the time was that this was fine as a negotiating tactic, but if it can e down to 21-22 in a bill that could pass, or 20 in one that would not, Trump would change.
My opinion is the same about Schumer and the Wall. Trump has certain.y given him reason to say that the wall is no longer a guarantee, but if he has the choice of a DACA solution with a wall or no DACA solution, he will and should change his position.
I was born, raised and still live in a major city. I am a progressive liberal who didn't run to the suburbs during the rough days of city life and I have never ever feared diversity.
What I do fear is that liberalism has been taken over by leftwing extremists just as bad as those on the right. They claim this is about diversity and yet they ignore the many middle and working class Americans of all colors who can no longer afford to live in major cities. Many cities in the northeast have become havens for the uber rich and the illegal labor they hire.
There is no way the average young working American will be able to afford a home in my town and that is the real tragedy. Not DACA or illegal immigrants but rather Americans who are seeing wage suppression due to the import of cheap labor.
The democrats lost me because of their caving to these extremists pushing for open borders and they will lose more progressive liberals who believe American workers should be first. Liberal has never meant lawlessness and abandoning working Americans until now.
5
Somebody please get Christo to submit a proposal for the Big Beautiful Wall so all the Liberal Intellectuals can get jazzed about the idea. Public art is so good for the collective soul. A nation brought together by tears of joy is a united one.
"Chain immigration" is something the descendants of those who came during the Great Waves have every right to protest as it had NOTHING to do with their grandparent's or great-grandparent's immigration. Virtually all of the disasters that need to be fixed are unintended consequences of the well-intentioned but ill-conceived Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. Chain immigration made immigration FAR LESS diverse (and continues to) giving countries like Mexico the lion's share; at present more Mexican immigrants account for more than all the immigrants from the next 8 countries that send the most immigrants. It is critical to note that the so-called "moderates" in the Senate the article praises -- like Lindsay Graham -- have argued for years for the kind of "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" bills the American people HATE. These bills would vastly increase immigration (several iterations DOUBLE legal immigration, turn a blind eye towards illegal immigration and predictably endanger America's working-class and working-poor. There will be no DACA UNLESS there is a critical trade-off, one far more important than the wall. Unless the DACA recipients are legalized under a regime that has ended chain immigration then they're amnesty will result in 4-5 million coming to the US: that would be the biggest of all 8 previous amnesties, including IRCA under President Reagan. If the "Dreamers" are added to IRCA, we are then talking about a population explosion -- a tsunami.
Does anyone remember the Maginot Line? It was a defensive line--a wall--running along the eastern border of France. It was built after WWI, at great expense and the then-best technology, to prevent a German invasion. The Germans found a weak spot ("They'll never go through here") and it was all over. Such has been the fate of walls through time, from Jerico to the present age. While I wouldn't expect Stable Genius to have read any history, I would hope that Chuck has. If you want to spend money pouring concrete, pour it onto our nation's highways and bridges.
2
Senate Republicans don’t have to make a “deal” with Senate Democrats. On Monday the two sides pledged not to set up procedural roadblocks in the path of an immigration bill. This means neither side can filibuster the bill. As a result, the Republicans don’t need 60 votes to end debate. They need only 51 votes—not 60—to pass an immigration bill, with the vice president casting a tiebreaking vote if necessary. So, Senator Schumer’s announcement that fully funding for the border wall is “off the table” is meaningless, unless Democrats break their work and mount a filibuster,
If Democrats break their word and filibuster the immigration bill, the Republicans should use the “nuclear option” to end debate and move the bill to vote. Despite its ominous name, the nuclear option is a simple parliamentary procedure that permits the Senate to waive a parliamentary rule—in this case, the rule that 60 votes are required to end debate and move a motion to the floor. The nuclear option permits senators to vote on measures as the authors of the Constitution intended.
Since Trump, McConnell, Ryan, Cornyn, Kelly, Miller, et.al. have shown they can NEVER be trusted, it is truly time to help the Dreamers, Puerto Ricans, Haitians, Native Americans, Muslims, women, the sick and the very poor, and every single group against whom this Administration discriminates.
And if what we've seen over the last year doesn't convince you to vote for Democrats this November, just expect more of the same...SAD!
It is a preposterous idea to build an actual wall to solve immigration issues. It's like building a wall around California to keep progressive ideas from spreading to the red states. That we're even discussing it is proof that the president's madness is pulling us all in.
It would be nice to get through one day without an inane, insulting Tweet from the current occupant of the Offal Office.
Out here where there are dairy cattle, walls are frequently built to contain their manure. I propose a wall around the White House for the same purpose.
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I can't believe the D believed the R would negotiate with honesty and integrity. Good for them to back out.
And by the way, how come all of a sudden we are paying for that Stupid Wall ?
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Funding the wall should never have been ON THE TABLE! Trump told everyone he had some brilliant plan to make Mexico pay for it. Trump's supporters did not want to listen, but Mexico itself said during the campaign, after Trump's inauguration, and as recently as this week on live television that it would do no such thing.
For the GOP to first decrease the tax burdens on the richest citizens and corporate persons and then ask for money to pay for their monument to spite on the southern border is a non-starter, ESPECIALLY when they promised no such payment would be necessary in the first place. To coin a phrase from the conservative playbook, if the GOP can't afford a wall, "maybe they shouldn't have bought that shiny new F-35 fighter jet to fight." Lest we forget precisely what the "fiscally conservative" GOP is cheering, just building the wall is estimated to cost (according to DHS) at least $21.5 billion and cost about $150M per year to maintain.
By contrast, Trump discontinued publishing the White House visitor's log, which ensures we know who's going in there to schmooze with our glorious leader, claiming it would save a whopping... $70,000... by the year 2020.
“Senator Schumer is trying to rescind an offer that he never made in the first place, and misled the public about,” said Sarah Huckabee Sanders,
And we should believe Sarah Sanders over Senator Schumer? Sanders is the epitome of truth? Hah!
America really loves to see juvenile bickering in the highest chamber of government. It is inspiring, and provides a great example to our children and the world. It would be a nice gift if these people would just shut up, and get the job done. Any hope of civility and a sense of right and wrong left when the orange-haired swirl swooped into town. Can they really believe that insults traded on twitter and in person advance the ball to betterment. It is worse than sad.
I've supported Schumer and the party up till now - but saying this, at this critical point, is amateur hour. It's time for Schumer to go.
In the spirit of compromise let's sell advertising space on the wall. The Adelson mile, the Tom Cotton inch etc.
Democrats are fighting to extend Daca and at the same time saying the will approve 25 billion for border security, a wall. The irony and hypocrisy of that position is mind blowing!
"Senate negotiators found themselves back at Square 1 on immigration on Tuesday, as the Senate Democratic leader withdrew the biggest gesture he had made to strike a deal: an offer to fully fund President Trump’s proposed wall at the Mexican border."
A Democrat who offers to fully fund the wall is not a Democrat and not someone who should be supported. Democratic voters rejected a border wall. Mr. Schumer, who's side are you on anyway?
Disgusting.
Please Chuck. Reagan granted amnesty to 3 million in the 80s.
Now we have 14-16 million more to address.
Do you really expect to refuse this deal?
If so, when can we expect you to say you regret the 700 miles of existing wall/barricades that you and Hillary voted for?
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This isn't about a wall, nor is it about 800,000 kids. It's about a narcissistic, out of control man with the intellectual curiosity of a one year old that truly believes he is above the law and can dictate to everyone else. Anyone supporting this malcontent should have their head examined.
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Schumer is afraid of his own party.
Dig your feet in Democrats, deporting the dreamers will be extremely unpopular, hold their feet to the fire and don't blink.
And not a penny for this stupid wall that I was told over and over again that Mexico was going to pay for. I would tell Trump no check from Mexico then he and his party must pass a special tax to pay for it. No putting it on the credit card.
Somebody needs to explain how to negotiate to Chucky. Once the other side knows there is in an issue that you will capitulate on, because you already have capitulated, it is not possible to put that genie back in the bottle. It is so entertaining watching these politicians get schooled by a real businessman.
The Mexican government can delete this line item from next year's budget.
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Ahhh, this is an easy one. No Wall no DACA!
Let's get some boats and start shipping.
Sorry Dems, you will need to hire Americans to wash your laundry and walk your dogs.
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Why, precisely, are the fates of three hundred million plus people being held hostage to the wants of ~800k people who don’t have a leg to stand on, legally?
Other than scoring cheap political points.
Look no farther than Los Angeles to see how this plays out. Tax and spend Dems want everyone to come on in....and promptly enter the now almost comically large tent city aka Skid Row.
We obviously can’t take care of who is here now just like we can’t keep water in the pipes or roads connected to bridges. Why on earth would we add more needless stress on those systems?
Apparently infrastructure (the most important thing ever!!!!!111 according to our blue brother and sisters) is not so important when you can say someone is racist for following the law.
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the wall is a racist fantasy. if it happened, which it isn't going to, and if it worked, which it wouldn't, the crops would rot in the fields.
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Schumer will be stabbed in the back. Shoulda got it in writing. But oh, that's right, Donnie John reneges even when it is a valid contract, signed, dated and notarized.
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Schumer failed his "base" by caving on the shutdown.Now he has to play the tough guy. How original.
Th Democrats should create a revolving fund for the wall. Put in an initial two billion that will continue to be available when Mexico has replenished the money that was spent. Call Trump's bluff.
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we are not repeating the mistakes of the 80s where we gave amnesty and the flood of illegals increased. DACA is fine but only withborderx wall, no chain immigration, and no lotteries. It is time to stop this nonsense of illegals swarming the southern border and other overstaying visas.
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Congress, Tear down This Wall!
Hapless Democrats - they go from one extreme to the other. First they cave on the shutdown and end up accomplishing nothing but looking like fools. Then they draw a line in the sand on the wall. No. This is not how it is done. You give a little, get a little. Throw them a fish and get on with it.
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Oddly enough, this circus, created and produced by liberals, is yet another in a long line of actions where thumbing their collective noses at the Laws of the Land is acceptable to them. Did you happen to see the Soros funded response last night at Schumers house? Now, you have every illegal wanting to be absolved of their criminal entry in our country and for us to ignore the huge drain on our tax dollars to care/feed/house/educate them.
Truly a disgusting display from liberals and illegals.
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Hold him to the promise. Whos gonna pay for the wall? Mexico. End of story. He cant escape that promise.
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Nothing screams "useless boondoggle!" like Trump's Wall.
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Is not Mexico paying for the wall?
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“Senator Schumer is trying to rescind an offer that he never made in the first place..."
One has to wonder: did Sarah Huckabee Sanders not graduate from high school?
Schumer needs to shut up. These black and white proclamations, or is it a line in the sand, really don't work well. The wall to get DACA settled once and for all with a path to citizenship, seems like the way to go. The "Wall" is a nothing, just a waste of money, time, energy. Let the Rs have it, and if in 2020 we win again big, stop it.
Someone smack Ted Cruz. He shut the gov down for his Planned Parenthood mania, so he has no room to talk about shutdowns. Hopefully he will be retired by Beto O'Rourke so we can be done with him soon anyway.
Trump needs to go back to Mexico and beg for funding there for his wall from the folks he said would pay for it. Americans never offered to fund it.
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it is not compassion to shut down your own government to shield illegal immigrants.
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Schumer must be crazy, having offered Trump 25 Billion to build The Great Wall of Trump. It's a small, no, make that, no wonder the party is dissolving into two camps.
Really?
Schumer told trump that we were going to pay for that whole stupid wall?
Are we Israel that we're throwing up walls willy-nilly?
25 BILLION DOLLARS - after Congress just gave away 1.5 TRILLION?!?
Listen, Schumer: 80% of the American Public is revolted that the lives of infants and children brought here without a say in any of it are now being told by 20% of the most fundamentalist of church or state that this is not the country they SHOULD have grown up in!
Well they did - and they are staying!
trump can just get that 25 BILLION from those that voted for him - and that's not me!
Schumer "withdrew" it?
I hadn't known that he had made it!
NO WALL, SCHUMER!
GOT IT???
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Not a word about the unhinged president's vacillations or the hard rightists who override him. You do not bother with blaming both sides -- you lay the blame squarely on Schumer, and even end by letting Cotton call himself a centrist. You are normalizing dishonesty. SHAME.
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Rank-and-file REAL Democrats: Schumer and Pelosi must go.
Schumer's promise to give the wall was unconscionable; his belated retractions looks like the Trumpian "jello" he criticized.
The Democratic Party is DEAD in the water until it gets rid of these dinosaurs.
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Why did he toady to it in the first place? The Dems need a strategic vision for America and they need to stand by it. Time for Schumer and his look-down-his-nose glasses to step aside.
as I watch the deportation of Legal Resident Aliens married to U.S. citizen voters occurring along with extended voting families breaking up, the increase of votes against Trump will not help him get re-elected. He won't be remembered for the jobs he brought back but by the families he destroyed in the long run. With another self-inflicting wound , he is better off using a Honma Beres s-05 gold plated driver to get a golf ball out of a sand trap instead of a sand wedge on one of his links ..........
I hope Schumer isn't surprised by the bait and switch
Give the kid his wall already. It’ll keep him occupied.
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Schumer breaks his word, two days later? And we thought Trump was waffle waffle waffley
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What's there to negotiate? Mexico will pay for the wall !! Oh, wait...So Mexico is not our lap dog after all- but Americans need to look in the mirror and examine why the even believed it in the first place.
I didn't know Chuck was prepared to sell us down the pike with the wall we heard Mexico was paying for. I'm not happy with him offering the mentally ill narcissist anything.
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It beggars belief that the Democrats are going to the mats on this issue. Yes, the government should be shut down but not for this reason. If the Republicons can try more than fifty times to repeal Obamacare, the Dems can do the same. Demand repeal of that shameful tax bill just passed for starters.
Now children, can we please talk nicely, listen to each other and try to get along?
Trump served up the Democrats a gift when he said Mexico would pay for the wall. Why would any Democrat offer one penny of funding for that, without making Trump grovel? Yea it's hardball. But wake up Democrats, look how you have been treated. Grow a spine.
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Sadly the Democrat party has become the party of illegal immigration, hands up don't shoot and America last. Folks should look back at Bill Clinton railing against illegal immigration when he was president. What happened to the party?
The majority of persons in the country illegally have simply overstayed their visas. Illegal border crossings are dramatically reduced and this was done under the previous administration. The majority of drugs entering the country come in through Ports of Entry, not over the border with Texas or Arizona. The DACA recipients have nothing to do with drug smuggling, terrorism or felony activity. ICE has the statistics and knows this but it is never addressed by the White House or the immigration hardliners in Congress, most, like the president, unfit to serve. By ignoring these facts building a wall will just waste money and will not really address the problem. Beefed up border security is an issue both Republicans and Democrats agree on and will create jobs so I'm all for that, but the wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for but isn't, is simply....... ridiculous and won't be effective.
The only reason the wall is still on the table is because Trump made a silly campaign promise. Only his base supports an ineffective wall and they're a mere 33% of the nation. Democrats have to change the narrative to reflect how the facts don't add up here and America and DACA recipients are being held hostage by an angry and uninformed minority. Schumer is right to take the wall off the table and should never have caved on the shutdown. Trump is just a useful idiot to the Republicans none of which have ever suggested a border wall. Republicans are spineless.
Trump supporters, let your man make Mexico pay.
I'm not paying a single dime for this.
This headline tells me that Chuck Schumer is being pushed off the cliff by his progressive colleagues. The narrative has now been established...Democrats care more about illegal immigrants than US Citizens. May play well on the Upper West Side or in San Francisco but not out here even amongst Democrats.
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Schumer will join Trump at the bottom of the cliff, having been pushed off by Stephen Miller.
The Cato Institute has stated that deporting DACA participants will cost the country billions of dollars. The loss of DACA workers will be an emotional hit on the country as well. It is morally correct to protect these individuals.
When any concern for the children of immigrants is shown there are who people jump up and shout about how we don't care about the citizens here already. Nice US.
Our priorities is the business of legal residents and of course citizens. Senator Shumer should get back to working for the above constituency in NYS.
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Notice Trump never adds military duty as a condition.
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It’s WAY past Mueller time.
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Arguments for DACA from Democrats' perspective are family preservation, economic benefit for communities and the country, and because it is right.
Argument against DACA from the GOP perspective is that their biggest "donors" (the Kochs, Mercers, and Scaife families), fear it might tarnish their "ka-ching!" scheme for Amerika.
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If the dems really care about the dreamers then the wall or some system of preventing illegal border crossings will be put back on the table.
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Schumer is starting the negotiation. He is imitating Trump, must have read Trump;s book.
It never should've been on the table.
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In a world of ubuiquitous video enabled mobile devices, deportation round-ups will be our message to the world and ourselves. Trump, Kelly and Miller are angling for it; Trump already has in mind a position for Arpaio.
Schumer will fall back to additional funding for border security which Trump will characterize as his wall. The pressure will mount on WH to accept the deal , but with his enablers in Congress , in the end, it will not because Trump, Kelly nd miller are racists. It's not complicated.
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Schumer took the Trump approach, promise the world, and next year pull the plug with a new majority.
This was probably the least costly way to test Donald who can’t be trusted either.....
I'm a Democrat and let me tell you: we are not getting a majority. Not gonna happen. It may be that the voters are there but through a system of voter disenfranchisement, suppression, gerrymandering, electronic vote manipulation and propaganda, we are, and will be, kept in the minority.
The boarder wall should NEVER be on the table as this was something that Trump PROMISED the American people that they would NOT fund that it would be Mexico.
Trump should be held to his word and the Democrats should at every opportunity remind the American people of this promise. When Trump finds a way to fund his wall without using taxpayer dollars as he repeatedly promised then he can built it.
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The wall should have never been on the table in the first place.
Trump got a lot of mileage out of doing his rumba while proclaiming Mexico would pay for the wall.
So, obviously, when Mexico comes up with the money then Trump can build his wall.
Trump made his burrito, now make him eat it.
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We need a Constitutional Amendment to reverse the clause in the 14th Amendment that automatically confers US Citizenship to all children born to illegals. We have a bucket with a hole, this Amendment must be passed by all the States immediately. Any act by an illegal is a crime due to their status, but the ability to produce another Citizen in their image every 9 months is a tempting reason to enter Our Country.
Walls on Our borders can be electronic, enforced by drones. Much like the Red Light cameras plaguing Our Citizens at ever y intersection, these same corpros could produce effective barriers for a fraction of a childish Wall.
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Let’s make it retroactive to 1776.
My ancestors came over in the 1660 ‘s. I’m safe.
An amendment is not required. Existing case law deals with the birthright citizenship issue. It can be put to the Court again and resolved there.
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I adore the part where you boldly assert that True Patriots get to run red lights and kill kds in crosswalks, because hey, Freedom.
It's all about Chuck, I see. He doesn't want people marching in front of his house anymore.
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Granting what is effectively amnesty to illegal aliens will only encourage this behavior in the future, meaning a secure border (physical wall, electronic surveillance, armed patrols, etc.) is more necessary than ever.
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what was the wall doing on the table?
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A visual of "the Great Wall near Mexico" and the Statue of Liberty is a serious contradiction.
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No contradiction.
The Statue of Liberty is a symbol of the freedoms enjoyed by the citizens of the USA.
It is not the statue of immigration. It is not the statue of illegal entry.
There is a simple solution to all of this. All persons who want illegals can take them into their homes, pay for their needs and generally be responsible for all of their actions. Then we'll see who is REALLY for this. As a taxpayer i don't want to pay for ANY illegals. And I believe there are a majority of Americans who agree with me.
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"A path to citizenship" is the humane thing to do with the DACA population. The problem is, Republicans lack humanity.
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Why is Trump even asking the US taxpayer's to fund the "great wall of Whiner" when along he has insisted that "Mexico will pay" for his useless vanity project.
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How about Pres. Trump pay for the wall using all his presidential profit from graft?
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Great to see realistic reporting that negotiations have gone back to "square one." That's a perfect topic sentence. Meanwhile, as I type this, the president hasn't even mentioned the school shootings in Kentucky. Even the prime minister of Canada voiced his condolences, but our president has not.
This is a man whose own words reveal a compulsive need to designate winners or losers. As clearly lacks the empathy gene. His tweets present a man both paranoid and particularly self-serving. As Bob Mueller plans a visit to him.
His tweets have been self-directed praise, alpha male dominance, yet more insults to democrats and to the news media, and conspiracy theories about the FBI---divisive stories with an origin from Russian internet bots.
Here's what Donald Trump recently said "I think a clean DACA bill, to me, is a DACA bill, but we take care of the 800,000 people..."
Get to it, Mr. President. Prove for once you are the grand negotiator you claim you are. Get off Twitter. Get to work.
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Thanks Chuck. Throw out the wall. Let Paul Ryan kowtow to the Freedom Caucus by allowing Mark Meadows to pretend he is the President. Allow Mitch McConnell to prove to us that he is a serial liar. Allow the unfit resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to exhibit his never ending ignorance and incompetence. The Republicans own Congress and the White House and they can’t get a spending bill passed on their fifth attempt? Now that’s great leadership. Can’t wait for the 2018 midterms.
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The border wall is three things:
1) a spite fence
2) infrastructure not security
3) ridiculous
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Oh for God's sake...the wall again. Give the child some version of something he can call a wall, and maybe it'll keep him busy gloating for awhile. I think Democratic Party insistence on not having a wall may be politically damaging. And anyway, a shutdown shouldn't be a time to negotiate things not directly related to budget.
Why can't Schumer do like any New Yorker would have done and get on the senate floor and say that Trump promised Mexico will pay for the wall? Trump repeated this over and over and the gullible people who believe him repeating this like an ancient Green chorus. Embarrass Trump. Tell him that Mexico will pay for the wall not the American taxpayer. The people who voted for him should write the White House and demand that he gets the wall money from Mexico and not from them, the American taxpayers.
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Was it not Ronald Reagan who said "tear down this wall"?
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The East Berlin and West Berlin citizens were all in the same country - GERMANY.
If the president wants a wall that much let him pay for it with the tax cut he just gave himself.
Frankly, when I think of a border wall the one that sticks is my mind is the Berlin Wall. And Reagan saying, “Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”
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Just when suffered a humiliating defeat and looked weak to your base, shoot yourself in the foot. Would someone please tell Schumer that he needs to stop, retire, and get replaced. I knew Trump would claim victory after Schumer turned tail the first time, but so quickly to do it again, and break his own deal in the process? Is he trying to make Democrats switch parties and blow the midterms?
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