As per usual, my gym workout featured a strong dose of FOX News. The sound was off, but a big "breaking news" headline stared back at me for 15+ minutes. It read:
"Trump in favor of fair and free trade".
7
I would like to know, when is #45 going to tell his daughter, she needs to bring her CHINA made clothing line to the USA so we can put more Americans to work. or when is he going to put higher taxes on her goods when they are shipped here. I understand the answer to both is a big fat never, but have to keep wondering, since its suppose to be America 1st.
14
We know what $130 k buys
What do you get for $260 k ??
1
So now Americans get to pay more for products that may be of lesser quality. MAGA
5
KIlls my plan for a national chain of solar laundromats.
7
As usual in trump world, the people hurt the most will be workers and consumers who want to save money by converting to renewable energy and reducing their dependence on the grid monopoly. Imported washing machines have better quality so trump can continue on his make america mediocre again path by eliminating foreign competition.
7
This is an attack on the economies of the East and West Coasts, gateways to imports and reliant on those imports, most notably California with a vigorous solar industry.
5
I wonder how much money U.S. solar and appliance companies had to bribe Trump with in order to get these tariffs?
4
Trump and his Congress waited several months from when he and Ryan had proposed the import tax that was soundly defeated by the public who claimed it would be a tax on consumers. Now the same idea is enshrined as a Tariff. Trump wasn't happy that any past legislation proposal had no support. In his character as a dictator, he simple unilaterally did it. Will there be public outrage or did Trump figure out that spinning it as a job creating move would sell it?
2
LG receives massive subsidies from the South Korean government. Chinese solar panel manufacturers are massively subsidized by the Chinese government. It's long past due that we slapped a tariff on their goods so that American companies can compete, though I would have preferred subsidies rather than a tariff, so this policy is still not ideal. Trump hasn't done many good things but this is one of them.
The democrats are going to go extinct if they keep putting foreigners ahead of Americans. This is madness.
1
If I remember my Economic 1 course (the guns & butter example) both sides win when there are no tariffs.
America , are you really NOT better than Trump & his vile abettors ?
Has Citizens United , Dark Money , Reagan`s gerrymandered districts and a silly Electoral College system so poisoned you that you must defund healthcare and education to give a tax cut for the 1% and more money to the Military Industrial Complex that Ike warned you about ??
America , is now Fly Over country.
15
Here's a way to put these tariffs in perspective: how many American jobs making washing machines might be saved, and how many Americans WILL pay higher prices for domestic and imported machines? The tariff jumps at 1.5 million machines, so 1.5 million American homes will pay the lower tariff, and the rest will pay even more. How many Americans actually make washers? A few thousand, maybe? So, Trump feels it's better to artificially subsidize a non-competitive industry at home, making millions pay more to save a few jobs? So much for free markets! The American public has been bamboozled again. Nice work, Republicans.
11
We're going to lose 2,000 jobs here in Colorado because of this move. So much for the America First agenda, at least so far as this purple state is concerned.
The real effect of this is to subsidize the dying coal industry. I look at what lying politicians do, not what they say. The subsidy for coal is what Trump is doing, regardless of rhetoric about cheap imports.
The lousy part is that Trump cannot repeal the laws of microeconomics. People will continue to seek the lowest-cost provider. As solar technology improves, coal will continue its terminal decline. Accordingly, the upshot of this policy will be no gain in coal jobs and losses in solar jobs, at least in the short run. Oh, and our household energy bills will rise, along with the rate of global climate change. Losses almost everywhere from a misguided policy.
I suppose Trump and Co. will reap campaign contributions from the coal sector so I guess there is one set of winners in an otherwise lose-lose proposition.
22
The rhetoric from my fellow posters now seems quite narrow, a trade agreement between 11 nations in the Pacific rim was finalised while US were arguing over funding government. Australian primary producers very happy as the Japan beef markets are more open at the expense of US cattlemen along with other opportunities. TPP will be signed in March. Two years ago could an agreement like the TPP be finalised without US participation.
8
Our end of the TPP may not be over as most of these countries (Australia also) do want and need American participation; Corporate America wants it; We have the TPA (Trans Promotional Authority) still at our disposal for the current administration to actualize...and they will have the necessary support from Congress; also Congress can extend it's use of this through voting.
The TPP has been worked on now for over 10 years...and this could be the next 'Huge' program passed by this Congress and Administration, even before the midterms...and would not be surprised if it resurfaces on the docket. The TPP and the TTIP are not on my docket for support, however.
Since Trump took office my health insurance went up 40%, my credit card rates went up, my electric bill has gone up, and now the cost of solar panels are about to go up 30%. Exactly when do the wealthy start trickling those tax cuts back down to us??? Hopefully before I need a new washing machine.
37
Fortunately we bout our washer and dryer before this came about.
After reading quality reviews about washers and dryers and knowing that LC is superior, I bought Whirlpool products anyway because they are made is the USA by an American company. The quality IS inferior. Perhaps, with a leg up from tariffs, Whirlpool will improve even without competition. Perhaps the new administration will begin letting other consumers pay what is fair—or not paying if we don’t like what we get.
In the meantime, here’s hoping that the thousands of solar installers won’t be laid off waiting for US to amp up production on solar energy systems.
9
Your personal consumer choice is an exercise of freedom, and you should be respected for choosing what is important to you.
However, there is a difference between individuals choosing a product for patriotic reasons, and a government policy to restricts foreign competition that, as history tells us, will not encourage the domestic competition to improve. And your well wishes to those who are in the solar installation business, no matter how sincere, will not help spur domestic companies from boosting production capacity. The rest of the world - South Korea and China in particular - will find ways to retaliate against this tariff. I suspect a ban on US beef and other produce may be coming soon. Maybe you can send your well wishes to the farmers who rely on these export markets and hope they don’t lose their business to Australian farmers?
4
Each tariff must be a dagger in Soros's black heart. His spin machine must be working overtime with hundreds of his minions stationed on the major blogs and social media and thousands more in black hoods and wielding crowbars getting ready to stage their phoney "resistance" when he gives the command. They are after all on his payroll. It's as if the events of the French Revolution are repeating themselves, but it is now the elites who are marching on Versailles. There's only one problem. They already live there.
2
Better stop wearing those glasses Ed, in case you’re taken for an “elite”. Pol Pot had them executed after a year or so of hard labor on a farm, and left them rotting on his Killing Fields. You never know with those Trump supporters... Recently one was arrested for threatening to kill all CNN reporters...
2
It isn't Soros, it's the Koch bros. behind this. And they are making out like bandits of all the free stuff and money taxpayers give them.
3
When the feeble minded can't make their case with facts and reason, they resort to the conspiracy theories. Its such a shame.
6
The solar tariffs are a thinly veiled effort to help the fossil fuels industry by making solar power more expensive. Trump's ties to the fossil fuel industry drives much of what he does, and also explains the alliance with the Russians, who share the goal of promoting fossil fuels.
25
If you want to boycott Whirlpool to protest the tariffs on higher quality and competitively priced washing machines, these are the brands that Whirlpool makes: Admiral (Canada), Chambers,, Coovert (ac's), Crosley (top-load/current front-load washers), Dacor, Danby, Estate, Inglis, Ikea, Kenmore ( see Sears ), KitchenAid, Kirkland, Maytag Epic®, Roper, Speed Queen (Canada only), Sub Zero (undercounter ice makers), Whirlpool.
Whirlpool lobbied Trump to throw on these tariffs. Why don't they make better quality products and compete the old-fashioned way? I hope China and S. Korea put tariffs on American exports immediately. It's absurd to force bad quality down Americans' throats. We're already suffering from that in the Oval Office.
29
This is to thwart dumping, not fair competition. Do you want lower prices on imported goods even though those goods are the result of unfair competition?
5
You are right that Asia is subsidizing their industries. Just like we are doing for coal. Maybe we should subsidize solar panel factories instead??? It isn't unfair trade policies that are suppressing our solar industry. This tariff is designed to suppress the use of solar energy in the US., period. Notice that it isn't an investment in the industry. The intended effect is to make it too expensive for people to switch to solar. Washing machines - I agree with the tariff on washing machines, that one makes sense.
6
The solar case had nothing to do with dumping. Moreover, it was initiated by two (foreign owned) US manufacturers who were in bankruptcy. The trade case was initiated at the behest of a lender who refused to provide financing to the chapter 11 debtors unless they pursued the case. Trump may be the worst president ever, but he had nothing to do with starting the case and was required by law to consider the US International Trade Commission ' decision to impose tariffs. The tariffs are significantly lower than the ITC recommended.
1
This is a shame. The machines that Whirlpool turns out are inferior to washers and dryers from LG. It is no contest.
13
Seriously? After a couple of failed LF appliances and an LG phone that died within a few months, I'll never touch an LG product again. Meanwhile, my 30-year-old Whirlpool washer and dryer keep chugging along just fine. Sorry you've had different experiences, Peter.
Obviously, he wants to kill the solar sales and installation industry to slow America going renewable.
16
This will hurt American citizens who want to save some money on their energy bills or help the country in a small way become more energy-independent. So it makes sense that Trump did this - sense to his twisted and warped mind.
14
Trump's antiquated ideologies are taking us far back rather than forward as innovators of sustainable sources of clean energy. Our goal should be to protect and enrich mother nature, rather than to go back to old ways that are proven to destroy it.
Where is America's forward and moral thinking for the future of all?
Industry with the help of government, profit from ravaging our environment and our health while the regulatory agencies give it a blind eye. People need to come out and speak loudly against these abominable human practices.
9
Trump is killing U.S. jobs.
The tariff on solar panels is shutting the barn door (part way) after the cows have already gotten out. Chinese dumping from a heavily subsidized industry over the past 12 years has already killed off most cell/panel manufacturing in the U.S. We have little to gain from this now - see how much U.S. cell/panel manufacturing capacity returns in the next 5 years, I'm betting not much, as a percent of world market - and of course those on the U.S. solar installation side, with many employed now, will suffer a huge setback.
Very unlikely this will reverse the Chinese domination of worldwide cell/panel manufacturing. China made a huge investment and this isn't going to engender equivalent investment in the U.S. Growth of renewable energy capacity in the U.S. will be curtailed, while it is encouraged elsewhere.
This isn't a planet-killer, because the panels will be built and deployed anyway. But it will mean less contribution to carbon reduction in the U.S. relative to other countries. Something Trump clearly cares nothing about.
My personal satisfaction from putting up solar panels last year (made in S. Korea) will be a pleasure denied to many over the next few years.
18
We let the Chinese kill our solar industry for us, so when the time came and we outlawed Chinese panels, there would be no factories producing them here that needed to get killed. Anyways, I hear coal is making a comeback...
I just wonder if an Amercan company that made drill bits used in the oil industry asked for a tariff against imported parts - would they get the protectionism they ask for? ...Or would the oil companies get to buy cheaper parts?
6
Does anybody remember when auto makers begged Gerald Ford to pass tariffs on small imported cars because they couldnt compete? He did right before he left the Presidency. Not even two weeks later American car companies raised their prices. Talk about gratitude and a mission statement.
9
Protectionism doesn't protect competitive free trade model. Mr. Trump should not be regressive but more progressive. Americans may be forced to pay more for their fundamental needs which is too hurtful, for the common folks. In the end, who will benefit? At last Goliath is complaining and retaliating against the David. Wish good sense and good judgement for the American Administrators.
2
This line continues to make me laugh. Its right out the old days, and has no place in todays markets.
"...on curbing imports of cheap products from countries like China and South Korea..."
Have you shopped for an appliance these days? Those made in China or SK, are not cheap imports. They are the bar, they are the products that the US manufacturers chase! IF LG puts out a new model/s, US companies scramble to mimic them!
Ask an appliance salesperson and they will usually recommend the imports, as they are the better products, with the most options.
And they cost more'n most think any such thing should! They ain't cheap!
Who will be hurt are American consumers on fixed budgets. New homeowners, older households in need of appliance upgrades. etc. American products are not seen as dependable in this market. They are overpriced for their options.
Now this tariff on foreign solar products will also hurt lower income households seeking some non-grid energy. It will hurt solar-install start-ups, as well. American compnaies are not on the leading edge with these products. They are not pushing the innovation towards smaller units,etc.
This are reactionary tariffs. Knee-jerk...
12
What have Republicans become? In the Reagan years, Republicans extolled the virtues of laissez faire. Tariffs were antithetical to such beliefs. One of the many talking points was that tariffs interfered in consumer choice and was in essence a tax borne by the consumer. Whatever happened to freedom?
Additionally, where is Sarah Palin? Why isn't she crying about crony-capitalism? The solar panel tariff clearly is a means to give an indirect government subsidy to the coal industry by reducing or eliminating competition from green power.
Just another form or corporate welfare for a select few individuals.
16
Everybody knows growth in labor productivity has exceeded labor hours for a long time in the US, and as such in a linear world, deficits occur when labor hours exceed productivity, and surpluses or increased revenues occur when productivity outpaces labor hours. This is the assumption that led republicans to passage of the recent tax bill, that big companies will produce more goods and services without adding jobs or labor hours. So these tariffs are placeholders for jobs because without tariffs the tax bill will fail to collect sufficient revenue even if productivity far exceeds labor hours. The tariffs make us more dependent on soon-to-be expensive foreign goods, not less. Beside the above, it is clear to me now the republicans never believed the tax bill would pay for itself. The results are the new tax provisions when codified will fail, and there will be fewer jobs and less competition for jobs, meaning, big downward pressure on workers earnings. This administration is beyond redemption in its cruelty to American workers.
6
LG and Samsung don't make cheap W/Ds! They are actually expensive, but Americans pay more for much better quality. An interesting sidelight is the new Samsung factory in S. Carolina, which of course is creating manufacturing jobs. But, if they can't import the parts they need...plus companies, regardless of where final assembly takes place, are using parts from all over the world. Tariffs like this, which will just produce retaliation and tariffs against our exports, don't work in a global world.
13
Sorry Senator Brown: Whirlpool doesn't make good enough washing machines.
And why aren't you supporting solar energy? The best US solar maker used to be in Ohio.
20
Haha Donald. I just purchased a great Samsung washer a couple of months ago.
9
I would like to think that the Trump WH knows what its doing when it places tariffs on imports and otherwise changes trade rules - that they have a grasp of the big picture so that they can project and evaluate the impact of their changes. And that their changes will overall benefit the majority of the people who live here. Unfortunately they have not demonstrated much competence at anything and their actions have largely been "divisive, discriminatory, nasty and stupid" followed by lies and spin to put another face on it. I'm back to holding my breath waiting for ................?
8
Let's compete with China in the solar panel industry, rather than closing our eyes (borders) and trying to tariff it out of existence. Those tax breaks the wealthy got could easily be reinvested in factories in the US to build solar panels and washing machines! Let's all hold our breath while we wait!
11
f the president wants to make good sent from overseas more expensive to help North American producers, there is a much more elegant solution. Get the world's leaders together to define and enforce stricter pollution limits on cargo ships. This way there is no picking favorites or in favorites and we can justify the higher prices as a tradeoff for cleaner air and oceans.
1
What a hare-brained idea! These additional tariffs may discourage ordinary Americans from installing the more expensive solar panels on their roofs, thereby prolonging our national dependence on climate-damaging petrofuels like oil and coal.
Is there any way we can rerun the 2016 presidential election?
12
Does anyone really believe that China, Germany, and Japan have open markets? They take advantage of us while we're not able to get a foot in the door with our products. If anything, this is one-sided "free trade." It's too bad Obama couldn't figure that out, yet the liberals are getting bent out of shape because under Trump this imbalance is finally being corrected. Now I'd like to see the field leveled in other areas like automobiles. All the elites will have to trade in all their Mercedes and Lexus cars and start driving "American." How absolutely "deplorable" that will be!
3
Not gonna happen. People buy products for quality - no one wants to buy 'American' cars. For that matter the US manufactures and ships Japanese and German car brands. The effect of this will just hurt the US economy.
5
Do you realize that when you look at JD Powers auto reliability the Japanese,Korean and German auto makers are much more reliable than the average American auto company. Why would they buy American when it is inferior and NOT EVEN Americans buy their own cars?
3
Isn’t it interesting how anti-American the left is?
Consider the comments on a feature like this. They mostly consist of people bashing American products and touting the superiority of ones made in China. I imagine a lot of these folks like the idea of unionized labor and a robust middle class in the abstract, but that all goes out the window as soon as the police state that uses forced labor to make their goods turns out to be a nation other than the shameful U.S.A. They love China, but hate their own country. Where does this come from? Did they learn it in school? Does saying this stuff make them feel more sophisticated, like they’re better than the rubes who live in fly-over country who make these goods?
And we see the same thing with the debate over illegal immigration. The left is willing to shut down the government over people who aren’t even citizens! And these are just the most substantive cases. In the background, we always have their defense of wealthy athletes who won’t kneel for the pledge, their defense of law breakers and terrorists, and their disdain for the fact that our economy is now booming.
It really is bizarre. Does it come from self loathing, or is it caused by depression? I hear that most progressives tend to be unhappy, unmarried, underpaid, carrying high levels of student debt, and living in locales that are really expensive to live in for the middle and even upper middle classes.
Is that why they’re so angry about and ashamed of the U.S.A.?
6
I'm guessing that you are not the reflective type of person who would want to read comments on your remarks, but here's hoping:
This tariff is not and never was about saving jobs. There are very few solar panel manufacturers in the U.S.. What there are a growing number of are solar panel installers. If you'd like to see whether this act will help or hurt the country we both love, do the math on increasing the costs of solar panels by more than thirty percent, and see where that leaves panel installers.
This was an ugly, yet effective way to cripple a renewable industry and limit competition to good ol' oil, pure and simple. In talking about what the left is "willing to do", you might make an exhaustive list of what the right is willing to stomach in the personal and 'professional' behavior of Trump, that is, if you have enough paper.
7
You seem to have a very simplistic view of the "Left", and the people commenting. First when people are saying that their Samsung washer is great you should know that that washer might have been made in the US but parts are imported from Asia, and Samsung is not Chinese, it is Korean. Tariffs on imports of parts will make it more expensive to manufacture things in the US, that goes for Solar Panels too. We do not LOVE China and hate the US we just have a clearer view of how the world economy works. We actually love unions and fight against laws like the Freedom to Work for Less laws that are passed in conservative states.
We are willing to fight for DACA because we see that these people who have lived in this country most of their lives, have gone to school, college and gotten jobs are an asset to our society just like the immigrants who did the same thing 100 years ago when anyone could just hop off a boat and be accepted.
Just to clear things up, the athletes that I think you are talking about ARE kneeling and it is not the Pledge that they are kneeling during it is the National Anthem. They are not protesting our flag, nor are they protesting our troops. They are protesting a very real problem with unfair treatment of many black men and women by our police and our courts. The people who complain about this, like Trump purposefully mislead and complain that they are insulting our troops, because they don't want to have to deal with the real cause of the protests.
3
I'm not sure where the right has gotten this myth that the left has in your words "distain for that fact that our economy is booming" but we readily admit it, and we know that this has been true for about 7 years now. We just like to point out that a year ago Trump was claiming that the economy was doing badly and/or that the numbers were rigged. Nothing has changed and since Trump has passed so few bills that could even remotely change the economy we just want the right to admit that the economy is doing well and it has nothing to to with Trump, and they were lying when they said it was awful a year ago.
I'm not sure why you think that most progressives are unhappy , unmarried and underpaid, but you might try coming out to Seattle where it is true that the cost of living is high, the minimum wage of $15 an hour has not stifled our booming economy, people are happy, married or not (many who were not able to be married in the past are married now).
No, we are not agree and ashamed of the USA because we are depressed, we are angry because we have seen America elect a clown who does not know what he is doing and seemingly doesn't even seem to care. We are ashamed because his dealing with every other country in the world has made the USA a laughing stock and, our European allies have decided that they are now on their own because they can't trust the US. Perhaps that is what you want, perhaps that is what Trump wants but that is not what we want.
3
This is more about the dislike of Trump than the tariffs. These exact same tariffs were implemented by Obama back in 2012?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-trade/u-s-sets-new-tariffs-on-c...
One more excellent way to roast the planet.
If you have other ideas on how to accelerate global warming,
please submit to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500.
The current administration would like to leave no stone unturned.
8
The premise of free trade is that countries will specialize in industries that they do best. If American solar panels and washing machines are not competitive then it behooves them to shape up or change their production to something that Americans or rest of the world needs that Americans can produce competitively. Imposing tariffs on foreign solar panes and washing machines will ensure that Americans will spend more money for inferior products compared to the rest of the world. This measure is short sighted and wrong-headed..
8
...the problem is, that this assumption said “of competitive advantage” is wrong (maybe was not wrong in 1990, but for sure today).
Whatever field of technology you take, there are examples of Chinese manufacturing which are overcoming traditional US or EU products...
The caveat is, that if you have a huge internal market and an extremely stable political system capable of making long term choices, you will end up to haven the possibility to improve your level enough to compete with the bests in every sectors. And that’s is exactly what’s happening....
If the president wants to make good sense from overseas more expensive to help North American producers, there is a much more elegantly solution.
Get the world's leaders together to define and enforce stricter pollution limits on cargo ships. This way there is no picking favorites or in favorites and we can justify the higher prices as a tradeoff for cleaner air and oceans.
2
If Whirlpool designed and built quality products, they wouldn't have to ask for protection. I've had nothing but trouble from every Whirlpool product (washer, Dryer, Range, Microwave) I have purchased. Never again.
14
Why don't we instead give a few engineering grants to grad students to develop the next improvement in washing machines, and make them be durable and reliable, as well as efficient?
5
'cause the South Korean and German machines already are durable and reliable. Oh, and they actually wash.
6
Look at how the Europeans and Japanese design and make appliance products for their domestic markets. Space efficient, use less water, and less energy,etc. While Americans continue down the Big Box of tin appliances, that need a room to themselves...
We just cant get behind efficiency, and smaller is not in capability.
5
There are multiple reason why an approach of building reliable and state-of-the-art appliances is unrealistic in the present US business environment. First of all, appliances are a low margin business and the return of investment to improve them is low. As you know GE has finally sold its appliance business to China's Haier a couple of years ago, using the income to invest in higher returning ventures. Secondly, most engineers would prefer not to work in a withering manufacturing sector when plentiful other jobs await their employment. China has an abundant supply of well trained engineers and undoubtedly will invest in making the GE appliances (they retain the GE logo) into a competitive product, some assembled here but with most parts imported. We will not change our business models to sustain a marginal industry that is not essential to our security. What we need to do is to increase our training of engineers and scientist to create a workforce that leads the world in innovation in both new products and in their efficient manufacture, a variant of an older model of decades past that brought us prosperity in much of the latter part of the 20th century.
3
The tariff on solar panels has the potential to be a win for the coal, and oil/gas industries. That is the primary reason for the sanction. Trump has previously demonstrated his lack of interest in the solar industry. It will be interesting to see the ripple effects of this action. Politicians are seldom noted for their perspicacity in understanding long term consequences of their actions. It’s all about the next election cycle.
10
The economic issue here is more complex than net benefit. The economic benefit is diffuse, but the human cost is concentrated. There is no magic wand that will level that situation.
3
Is there an American companies able to produce a washing machine that is compact, efficient and spins faster than 1500 r/minute? Last Whirlpool i purchased was manufactured in Italy , where labor cost and taxation is way higher than in the u.s.a. in Italy such washing machine cost 350 Euro, 400$. In America no washing machine cost less than 500 $. Why? Would a washing machine manufactured in Italy by Whirlpool be subjected to the same tariffs as the ones produced by any other brand?
8
Three years from now, Whirlpool will still be making inferior products but without anyone else to blame for lousy sales. Two washer dryer sets in 15 years and both have had significant motherboard and mold issues. The first set was shame on them. The second set is shame on me. I won't let that happen again.
16
It’s ok, once I become homeless, I won’t need these products
16
Hopefully not. But a very sharply pointed comment.
3
Trump was not able to think this up on his own! The only part he added was his bias of any thing progressive.
2
“Who knew trade policy could be so complicated?”
5
I thought Reps are for 'letting the market decide' and 'politics not picking winners and losers'??
Oh - I forgot - that is only true when it serves THEIR PURPOSE. This was a gift to Oil&Gas&Coal inc.
15
Here we go! Knew this coming and his 35% will love him for it until they go shopping for that Maytag.
7
Clarification. The USITC first has to find injury and then make recommendation sto the president. He cannot apply section 201 without the USITC's recommendations.
1
It's morning in America, friends! (I have to tell you this, because you can't see the sun)
Victoria's spouse
3
lol, I live in Seattle. What is this thing I keep hearing about called the sun?
You'll never see Trump do anything about all the foreign money laundered through his properties. But he will kill American jobs by allowing solar to die here, and China is laughing at us once again.
10
Where's the problem? Just think with this additional revenue the government will be able to reduce the inevitable increases in the national debt just from the tax cuts followed by the few hundred billion in the latest cuts for those things like taxes on medical devices which the Republicans killed just to cut a deal to get the government back in business this week. These two things will only add another 2 trillion to the national debt over and above the Obama debt passed through to Trump which will be close to 1 trillion dollars each year. So, this little bit of additional income can only help, right? Oh, wait a minute. What if the Chinese were to add special income and sales taxes on to the American automobile companies operating and selling in China? Trump is after them. So, their sales and income will drop and directly affect the Chinese economy. Hey, they like the Trump companies those American companies are already making lots of money so who cares if Wall Street cries.
1
Protective tariffs can have a positive effect in a thriving economy in which the working class has real spending power.
In this case, however, it will both drive up prices and hurt the US balance of trade.
Consumers will be less able to afford these products, so the intended effect of creating more jobs due to increased production will be marginal at best.
And not only will higher-priced US products look less attractive for export, but other nations will retaliate in kind.
This is a typical Trump blunder, a precipitous action that shows deep ignorance about consequences.
8
We can save American manufacturing jobs by investing now in education for the future generation. Without that, we risk becoming a Woody Allen-style banana republic. Congress needs to wake up from their current fake dreams.
7
And by stopping technology theft through manufacturing in China. If you design it and it has a technological advantage, make it here, and protect your trade secrets.
2
Not too long ago the labor wing of the Democratic Party had their bumper stickers saying "Buy American!" and "Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign."
The Democratic Party had not problem cheering these folks on with praises of "To the men and women of labor who built this great country!" The American Dream somehow became synonymous with an upwardly mobile labor and skilled labor class all magically driven by FDR. When the US manufacturing sector started losing ground to imports we saw that it was that sector that drove the so called American Dream.
Quietly and on the sidelines many lifelong Democrats abandoned they fruits of their sisters' and brothers' labor and purchased imports or non-union transplant products. No problem there - your actions are driven by your pocket book in all senses of the word. Companies like Honda located away from union strongholds. Like I said it makes sense.
But don't cry about the disappearance of the "American Dream" when in reality it's purported demise was not only driven by the politicians and corporate America but also by our choices as consumers. Liberal folks don't like to hear that.
3
I guess the fossil fuel industry in the US was getting angry about losing customers to solar.
12
Trump "will always defend American workers, farmers, ranchers and businesses" -- except when they want a good price on a washing machine or a solar panel.
Surprisingly absent from this otherwise adequately reported article is any mention of whether China and South Korea have comparable trade blocks in place against US imports. If so we are within our rights to match them; otherwise, some people need to reread Adam Smith.
How come when we impose a tariff on goods from a country that subsidizes the cost of goods by letting their people work for peanuts it is called protectionism and it's going to kill our economy, meanwhile, for too many years we have self-imposed tariff by having our employers pay a livable wage for work, and it's killing our economy? Seems like heads they win, tails we lose.
3
Labels aside, this really is a problem. It doesn't make sense for companies to continue pursuing operations in areas where they don't have competitive advantage, and that would include labor costs (except for certain industries that impact national security). It doesn't help us to artificially try to raise their prices by slapping on tariffs, we need to instead focus on how to make ourselves more competitive in reality through better or more efficient products. Tariffs are a short-term band-aid at best.
4
I thought Republicans were all about free markets--let the market decide prices through competition. File this market trade war philosophy away with "state's rights" and "smaller government" as more GOP red herrings that do not match up with their actual policies.
3
Whirlpool and Kenmore products are terrible. LG products are far better designed and are considerably more reliable. Protectionism simply allows poor products to remain poor with little R&D incentive. Trump must have a personal angle in this move.
10
I voted for President Trump because I didn't like his opponent. I don't agree with everything on his agenda and this is one. If Democrats come up with a moderate, this could make me swing back. I don't want to be forced into buying inferior American products or pay a fortune for imported. Japanese imports are what forced American auto makers to improve their cars although they're still not quite as good. American manufacturers will sit back on their duff and put out any kind of junk and charge what they like. Free market competition is what capitalism is based on.
25
I don't like the idea of a tariff on solar panels, but the least he could do to soften the blow and show good will, would be to give some money toward research and development of more technologically advanced solar energy.
I've resisted putting solar panels on my roof because in ten years time, what we use now may become obsolete. Most of the solar installation companies want you to sign twenty year contracts and you don't own the panels. Some homeowners have complained that their electric bills are higher.
2
It's not the imposition of these tariffs itself that disturbs me, it's the imposition of tariffs in the absence of a greater long-term, sustainable plan. You want to save American manufacturing jobs? Sure, I can get behind that. But the way to do it is not by isolating the US and artificially raising the prices of external production, it should be by putting smarter plans in place to make US manufacturing more competitive again from a design or functionality or efficiency perspective. The way they're going about this is just all wrong - you can't just slap tariffs on and hope to somehow be able to rewind the clock back to the golden years of US manufacturing.
6
I don’t see any Democrat Proposing a solution here.
1
This isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing. This is a 'this is a half-baked effort' thing, regardless of who is putting this in place.
If Whirlpool considered making products that equalled or exceeded the quality of Samsung and LG, they wouldn't need "protection".
I am happy to buy American products that outshine their competition, but I can't Buy American just because.
17
You would rather pay government benefits than go an inch out of your way to support working class Americans? You do realize that is who you are amking pay the price, right?
1
I remember as a small child back in the 60s that the adults would pick up an object on a store shelf, flip it over, and point out the words Made in Japan. I was taught to put it back on the shelf because it took away American jobs. It is one of my earliest memories in life, being taught to look for Made in the USA.
Then, along came Wal-Mart and I watched Americans fighting in line over stuff made in China and wondering why the factories were closing in their towns. And it seemed almost overnight that China became a big player on the world stage.
2
If only things are as simple as you think. Inflation has remained super low for over 2 decades thanks to China. Inflation would have eroded all the benefits of protectionism and the US companies would be less competitive because of protectionism.
The bigger reason is that the top1% have been gaining all the wealth while the middle and lower income people have had stagnating wages. Atleast low inflation has helped them.
Also where do you think the growth for American companies have come from during the past 3 decades? Yes, American prosperity and growth comes from access to selling things in huge markets such as China and India. What do you think will happen if suddenly American companies such as GM are stopped from selling cars in its largest market? Or if P&G is stopped from selling its consumer goods to 1.2 billion Indians? Think about it? You think 1000s of jobs will be lost? Or you think Americans will become prosperous?
Globalization is a net benefit to Americans BUT some Americans have suffered and they have to be helped by retraining, easy access to healthcare etc and yes those benefits can be easily paid for by taxing the rich. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. The low taxes on the rich.
2
I look forward to The Economist's calculation of how much money consumers will be paying for each job theoretically saved.
5
That calculation may be better suited for NASA.
2
So i learned my favorite US made garment company lost its battle to trade. Their excellent wool products could not compete in pricing. So what about if instead of raising tariffs to solar energy panels (an industry that is benefitting the US from innovation), we raise tariffs to garments and toys imported from China and distributed in the US by Walmart or Amazon. Maybe then, consumers will directly feel why globalization is not necessary evil and we can come to our senses there is a place for protectionism and there is a place for laissez-faire in all economies.
4
You must be talking about Ibex--I was devastated to see them close up shop; what a loss, and what misdirected efforts by this know-nothing administration.
4
Yes, same one. And i wish we could see those small businesses and actually do something about instead of this welfare for oil companies.
1
Was the point of this to target solar panels and they threw in washing machines as a distraction? It would be laughable except that I want consumer options to buy the best quality I can afford (which isn't always US-made) and a washing machine is something that every household either has or uses. Absolutely absurd and likely another morsel to distract what the impact will be on the alternative energy industry and energy conservation/efficiency as a whole.
6
As "American" companies express concern regarding consumers' choices of what they want to buy and why, and request protections - consumers might be interested to know exactly whom they wish to protect. Demonstrate to us that all design, engineering, materials, manufacturing and product recycling take place within U.S. borders. Let consumers know who the owners, managers, and investors in these companies are. Then we can make "better" informed choices.
5
In the European countryside, homes use solar and wind energy and some earn money every month, rather than pay, for supplying their self-produced solar energy back to the grid. Meanwhile, back at the US, the coal and oil industries control the US government, which puts obstacles (such as tarrifs) in the Americans' way so they can't benefit from non-coal/oil-based energy. In the end, the US no longer looks like a first-world country, but a second-world one, and after the tax bills, possibly third world in the years to come.
14
I live in Seattle which is known for the lack of sun. As I look out my patio, about half the rooftops have solar panels. Even older apartment buildings have added them.
1
Wow, wouldn't it be cool if Democrats also had policies to help workers? And I'm a Democrat. Of course we can continue our present path of being the party of investment bankers and lawyers.
3
ummm... lobbying is necessity in politics thanks to the GOP's Citizens United...unlimited money in politics....which party supported it? Which members of the SCOTUS upheld it? Answer those questions then reconsider your post.
3
A lot more workers want to own a washing machine than want to build one for a living. Keeping basic products as affordable as possible raises the real income of everyone rather than picking out a few people to be subsidized by the rest of us.
1
@pro--science--huh? Even my 8 year old daughter knows what you just said. @Alan--yeah right; keep telling yourself that as we have an abundance of plastic shipped in from Asia (our true manufacturing center) and fewer and fewer middle class jobs. But hey so long as I save 25 cents on something that may or may not be unnecessary. All the fancy "professionals" will sing different songs when their jobs are replaced by telemedicine doctors based in overseas etc.
2
It's my understanding that there are 10s of 1000s more jobs in solar energy installation & repair now than in coal. These are often in areas where wages are not keeping up with corporate profits. Threatening those clean jobs to protect the dirty coal industry's automated processes seems to me to be asking for "huge" losses in November. Sad.
22
Does the tariff on washing machines also apply to dryers?
6
Trump would have looked the other way on China trade imbalance if China had enforced UN sanctions on North Korea. Instead, it has been business as usual. Now China will start to pay the price, and it will hurt them MUCH more than it hurts us.
1
I wouldn't bet the farm on that one..remember which country holds a large percentage of U S debt.
1
No matter what US does, China and Russia will not turn the heat on NK. Thats just the reality we can't get away with. Why would they? It doesn't help to have US at their door steps and NK is a good proxy to have.
How will it hurt china much more than the US? China is the worlds largest market and every company wants to get access to that market. All China has to do is kick out a few big US companies away from their market and 1000s will lose jobs in the US. China controls the world trade and they dictate the terms of access to their huge market. Any US company that can't sell in Asia and Europe will not be globally viable. And China owns $1Trillion of US debt. All the US does is to give tax cuts to the rich and borrow to feed its huge military while not having money for education, healthcare or infrastructure. Don't you realize this is an over extended empire that is slowly fading away but still spending like it is at the peak?
The more I am learning about North Korea, the more frightened I become about "American First." They worship the dear leader and offer thanksgiving for his help. They live and breathe "North Korea First." Protectionism is a slight slide to isolationism, and a less far reach to our not being able to speak and travel freely.
We're only talking about washing machines and solar panels, but then down the road what other ordinary things will become things we need a voucher or a ration coupon for?
And of course, if it makes Solar more expensive, this administration is all for that.
6
I am curious to know that of the people that attended the consumer electronics show in Las Vegas this month and in recent years, of all the advancements in electronics of any consequence, how many of them originated in America? LG, Samsung, Kia Motors and others are just a few of the successes of South Korea, a country that has shown world-wide ambitions. They will sell their products elsewhere, even at a premium.
Trump and the Republicans think driving down wages, closing the borders to smart, educated people, opening up coal mines and pretending climate change does not exist will "Make America Great Again". Ultimately these policies are guaranteed to do nothing more than make the country less and less competitive in the world while further widening inequality. It is too bad that his supporters are still buying into this "economic fiction".
17
To those hypocritical Democrats who think this is a bad move:
How is America to supposed transition into clean energy if it cannot produce clean energy equipment at home?
If domestic manufacturers cannot survive because of subsidies received by outside competitors, should we let them go bankrupt and be solely dependent on outsiders who have their full governmental support?
There will be a pain for many, but all this is an attempt to become self-sufficient.
I know you don't like this president, nor do I. But when will the Democratic party be seen as the party that puts the interest of the American people first and foremost?
12
How can America transition to clean energy if the government subsidizes the fossil fuel industry and denies global warming? I suppose you think Exxon pays too much corporate tax when they receive a net positive cash flow from the government (even before this new tax cut). Without subsidies, 1/2 of the military budget (protecting oil supply lines), and global warming damages we're paying about $9/gallon of gas....if you eliminated all that and paid the actual price for oil, then our own solar cell manufacturers WOULD be competitive at their current NON-SUBSIDIZED cost.
7
These tariffs will cost many more US solar jobs than they save. The jobs are in installation and this move will threaten planned projects. The solar industry begged the administration not to do this.
7
Don't change the subject. Focus on the broader picture of my argument. This stuff is a baby step. Stay focus. My argument is, we need to support domestic clean energy industry/producers from competitors that receive subsidies and governmental supports. What's wrong with taking sides here?
1
This president has never done a load of laundry in his life.
Has he tried using a Kenmore or Whirlpool washer lately? They stink -- literally, so poorly made. Designed to fail after a few years. I will never buy another.
Imported washing machines are *engineered* way better than US versions.
Another reason we need more women in elected office.
21
This is the so-called president invading Nauru to go one better than 'W'.....
Good work, Dotard Donald...costs US jobs and hurts allies like S. Korea....
Davos is IMPRESSED!!!
No wonder Melania opted out.
3
The silver train is heading northward . . . .
2
After slapping a tariff on Canadian lumber - which let the big domestic lumber companies raise their prices and their profits - Trump now is aiming at the solar industry - to increase profits in the fossil fuel industry. This guy just doesn't care who he screws over as long as he and his buddies get richer.
I miss Ike. I miss Gerry Ford. Hell, I even miss Nixon. Dubya, not so much; I don't think he had evil intent, he just allowed evil people to control things while he was supposed to be presidential. But THIS man is very much less than human.
14
:) I miss Reagan and I am as liberal as they come :) At least he acted like a president.
A trade war benefits no one.
Unless Trump makes solar panels and washing machines now?
3
The solar thing should be really good for Elon Musk's roof tile solar panels, they make 'em here. Why set up those unsightly arrays in the yard when you can install tiles on the roof of your house that do the trick? Your house already in too much shade, big trees or your neightbor's rocket gantry blocking the rays? Then build some kind of pavilion structure out in the sun where you were gonna put the array! Maybe a huge gazebo or a barn, Tesla tiles on the roof.
I dunno about the washing machine thing, I hope they give a waiver to those really snazzy (and already expensive) German washing machines.
Bosch already makes some of their products here in the NC..not sure about washers but dishwashers are ;)
Ah... protective tariffs and trade wars. Just the sort of thing all these trade agreements were supposed to stop. And looking at history, these are blunt instruments that tend to harm both sides while allowing the protected industries to become complacent. Gotta love it -- another sterling example of American GRATENESS. How many more windows left to break?
7
Ah - despite the critics, Mr. Trump shows that he does have coherent policies. The tariffs on solar panels will clearly energize the boom he has sought for his beloved coal industry. While literally EVERY OTHER country in the world wants to help with climate change Mr. Trump uniquely understands that you can lessen global warming if you fill the air with enough smoke. That's how un-enlightenment works, Trump style.
10
Why not tariffs on all the Trump products made in other countries?
19
I wonder how many studies Trump read before picking out washing machines for this tariff? I think he just raised our taxes because most consumers will just pay the higher price. Those Korean machines are very nice.
1
It's more likely that consumers will just try harder to make do with their older, already owned machines.
Protectionism is the progressivism of fools. Gandhi was a great statesman but a horrible economist. Just as the ignorant in the USA argue that American workers who earn $15 per hour should not have to compete with Chinese workers who make $2 per hour, Gandhi thought that Indian workers should not have to compete with American and European workers who have the benefit of modern machines. As a result India adopted protectionism. In 1947 the per capita income of India was similar to countries such a South Korea. By 1977 the per capita income and standard of living in South Korea was many times that of India. India has since largely abandoned protectionism.
Protectionism can save jobs. In the USA the best measurement of the cost per job saved to the rest of the country is about $1 million per job saved. Saving one job might provide $100,000 in gains to the worker and the employer who benefit from the protectionism, but cost the rest of the country $1,000,000.
To save a million jobs via protectionism would cost the country a S1 trillion . To save 10 million jobs via protectionism would cost the country a S10 trillion. That would make the USA a poorer country than Mexico. That would mean it would be likely the people born in the USA would be going to Mexico to work as servants and dishwashers. The degree of impoverishment that would result from that much protectionism is usually only associated with severe natural disasters or wars.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4026652
4
Most Americans do not have a clue how China became poor. China was the largest economy until about 1850. Unable to compete with the plundered resources from the Americas and slave labor THE CHINESE decided to shut down its border to foreigners and foreign goods. The chinese emperor famously said "we need nothing from you" to the British and so the Brits pumped opium for free into China.
Now history has come a full circle. Unable to compete with low wages of China America wants to shut down its border to foreign goods. No matter what country protectionism leads to poverty. But the cycle is not complete until America becomes poorer than China and I think thats what Americans want to see before changing course.
4
Thought Provoking: Thanks for the historical reminder. However, there are other policies that say a Germany implements that have the impact of making their products more competitive that we should mimic.
Democrats might reclaim the mantle of the blue collar worker champion if they developed such policies. I don't see them doing that. Their priority is DACA, which is all well and good, but will mean that many workers will see Trump as the only one who even tried to do anything at all.
I wonder if we will ever have a national leader who has a vision for all of our working people? I voted and liked Obama but he wasn't able to do that. In the face of a chance to restructure the stranglehold finance has on our economy (too big of a share of GDP) he punted and opted for regulations, which are now being rolled back. He thought his mandate was to do insurance reform lol.
Germany taxes the rich and pays for the healthcare, education and well being of its citizens. Are you fine with that? Germany also has free apprenticeship programs with the industry. You think American corporations will do anything for free? Japanese companies have a profit sharing arrangement with its employees. Do you think American corporations would ever want to share profits with its employees?
Democrats fight for the right of the minority as well as the poor and those that need help. It is a democrat president who has passed everything from SS to Medicare to Medicaid to Civil rights to voting rights to equal pay for women to Obamacare to CFPB. What has the GOP president done BUT tax cuts for the rich? And ofcourse they want to remove all regulations so the corporations and the wealthy can plunder everything without any recourse by the average citizen or any accountability for the environment or welfare of the employees.
But the GOP and the current president have perfected the art of the con, make their base foam at their mouth by inciting culture war and race/identity politics while quietly picking their pocket. LBJ was so right with his famous quote.
The core issue of the rot of the middle America is due to the state and federal government NOT having any money for education, healthcare or infrastructure after subsidizing the OIL industry, giving the rich with tax cuts and feeding the humongous military. NO republican wants to address it.
1
Westinghouse makes lousy products under all its brands (do an internet search for what they manufacturer under). For Trump to impose a tariff on washing machine mfg., such as LG, won't keep consumers from trying to buy the best quality machines; it will just cost them more. If this is MAGA, I don't get it.
7
A sneaky way to thumb his nose to environmental conscious people and the EPA.
5
Those countries affected by the tariffs will not just lie down and accept them, despite what Trump expects. They will react with their own tariffs. So now we end up with a tariff war where everyone is hurt. Don't get mad, get even - right?
2
Jeff Fettig says it's a victory for American consumers. How so? Consumers will pay a higher price for a product that isn't changing. Gee Mr. Fettig, thanks, but please don't do me anymore favors.
5
This move will raise prices for American consumers causing inflation on all items in the USA. Will Americans, especially those retired on fixed incomes realize this is because of Trump's poorly thought out action? I yes, he and the GOP will lose in a landslide in 2018 and 2020 but don't underestimate the power of Trump/Russia propaganda and lies being pumped into American at a greater and greater rate.
4
The sentence including the phrase "where Whirlpool makes its washers" is extremely misleading. Whirlpool may make some of its washers in Ohio but has been shifting manufacturing to Mexico for over a decade. In 2006 it laid of 1200 U.S. workers and moved the jobs to Mexico. So American consumers will pay more for washing machines to help Mexican employees?
7
Yes, many Americans still believe because if they "think" it is an American manufacturer it is built in America. In recent years, Whirlpool, in particular, has absorbed several long-time established "American" appliance manufacturers(Kitchen-Aid, Maytag, etc., plus the Sears Kenmore brand).
I might suggest, taking a look at the name plate and model number located somewhere on the unit itself. In most cases, American buyers are going to be in for a very rude awakening.
2
I assume that these Tariffs will NOT eventually extend to the Trump's family Chinese/Foreign imports?
6
Lots of pro open market comments. Probably by the same people who are oro open borders. The same kind of people who bemoan the opioid crisis don’t see that it correlates with the loss manufacturing jobs to a communist wannabe superpower. The same kind of people who wear clothes produced by sweatshop labor, while talking on their $1000 phones.
All of these things can be made in the US. Sure, prices may increase, but they will not increase by a drastic amount. May bring some dignity back to your fellow citizens, instead of lining pockets of communists and globalists alike.
Prices will increase exponentially. That is always a prredictable result of protectionism.
Perfect. Now the U.S. companies no longer need to compete. This will result in lazier American workers and more inferior American products. But the rich will still be able to buy the good stuff.
1
Trade policy is another of those complex issues, like healthcare and tax policy, where jiggering with it does little more than create different winners and losers. Some Americans will gain jobs, others will lose jobs. Some American businesses will gain sales and profits, and others will lose sales and profits. And at the end of the day, consumers will pay more for washing machines and solar products. What Trump is doing is little more than pandering to his MAGA base which is motivated by nationalistic emotion. My concern is that all Americans can make a living wage that will buy them the necessities plus a few of the extras, higher education so their children can do better, and a secure retirement when they quit working. It is income and wealth inequality among Americans that needs fixing to achieve that goal, not international trade policy.
6
:) Its not like Jeff Bezos is going to go all Oprah on us and declare that he has bought everyone in the country a new American made washing machine:)
1
So if your industry cannot compete in the global economy, do not encourage domestic quality improvement, but subsidize mediocrity by erecting tariffs that penalize consumers. If you are incapable of critical thinking in addressing complex economic problems and emotionally prone to immediate gratification, tariffs seem intuitive and feel good. The global economy will eat King Baby's lunch.
3
Tariffs and trade wars - never a good idea for a net importing country. In the words of Donald Trump - "Sad"
2
I hope someone explained to Trump that a tariff on washing machines will not help him with the charges of possible money laundering.
15
Best comment of the day.
4
I agree:)
2
Ah made in America like our motor home made in Indiana
Pipes not connected and cupboard doors flying off just a few of problems on $200,000 vehicle Apparently they don’t waste time on quality control
That is why we treasure our LG appliances
4
Nice. Trade wars always end non violently.
So just before Davos - where Canada is looking for others to join its big WTO case against the US - the master negotiator Trump provokes two trade giants to ....... mount WTO cases against the US. And promises more. A worldwide class action suit seems in the offing.
2
Is this another brainstorm by Stephen Miller, Trump's "Undertaker in Chief"?
Miller seems to be the driving force in anything that kills relationships with other nations.
5
How VERY clever!!!
Higher panel prices mean higher prices for CITIZENS AND BUSINESSES who want to install them...job losses as the market shrinks, Is this another CLEAN COAL OPPORTUNITY?
MAGA, MAGA....
4
Every possible bad choice he can make, for our environment and the future of our country, he consistently makes.
4
So he starting tariff war that he won't win.
1
If domestically manufactured products were of higher quality, there would be no need for applying steep tariffs on foreign-made appliances or solar panels. Unfortunately a lot of American-made products are simply inferior to those made offshore, and more expensive. Rather than lobby the White House to impose hefty tariffs on its competitors, Whirlpool should concentrate on making better products. I'll never buy Whirlpool again. They can expect a boycott.
43
Why can't American companies figure out how to make these products in a competitive manner. All this tariff will do is make us more dependent on oil, pollute the air and make other countries angry at us. American companies went after the fast buck by moving to cheap labor countries and closed down American industry that gave people jobs and allowed them to make a decent living. Greed took over and now we are in a mess with a president who knows only how to make money off the backs of the working class people in this country. It is time for a rebellion at the polls to elect Democrats and Republicans that are for the people not for the greedy companies.
39
We have lost our leadership in manufacturing decades ago in areas of high labor costs and retained much of it in areas where we have a natural advantage, as in agriculture and petro-chemicals, or which require high intellectual input, such as technology, pharmaceuticals and health/medical equipment. The lost labor intensive jobs will not be brought back, nor the manufacturing of commoditized products that have largely supplanted humans with robots. Among the latter products are electronic components, including solar cells and panels, and semiconductor chips, all technologies invented and nurtured here in the US since WWII.
All attemts to stem this outflow of jobs is futile and only postpones the inevitable that we cannot maintain our living standards and compete with rest of the world, particularly the countries with rapidly increasing populations. To survive we have to tap into our strength, our vast educational and research infrastructure, the envy of the world and a model to be imitated by many and copied by our leading international competitors. This infrastructure contributed more than half of our economic growth since WWII, but is threatened by an accelerating lack of support for research by our government and a public suspicion of the value of science, made intolerably worse by the present Trump administration. We have to return to the entrepreneurial and innovation driven period following the sputnik era, with a committed government-private sector partnership.
7
All too many of the jobs you describe, that we, as a nation excel in, those in high tech and agriculture, are being exported almost as much as the manufacturing jobs that our president bemoans the loss of. As you say, the lack of government support endangers future innovation in the tech sector, but so far, by relying on foreign labor, both high-tech and low-tech, as in agriculture, we have a lot of mistakes to make up for. Furthermore, this is nothing new. 50 Years ago, when I was in elementary school, we had a class discussion of academic standards in the United States, compared with Europe and Asia, and even then, our schools were way behind them, and have only been losing ground since (on average). The saving grace then, was that more of our kids went to college, and we were able to maintain our edge for a while. In today's atmosphere, we have even lost that. Now is the time to invest in education and infrastructure, and maybe, just maybe, we can hold our own while we exclude the best and brightest from overseas.
2
The big issue no one wants to discuss is the richest 1% getting all the benefits of mechanization and globalization. America is still growing and competing BUT the uneducated mass doesn't get any benefits from the growth. The rich and corporations should be taxed so much more and the tax windfall used to improve education, research, healthcare and infrastructure.
But instead this country is choosing protectionism which will erode the US competitiveness and give the emerging Asia the economic and political leadership on a platter as they achieve economies of scale for the new technologies of the future while we prop up the industries of the past such as OIL. Protectionism is the reason China became poor after being the worlds largest economy until about 1850. Protectionism is the reason India didn't grow in the 1950s and 60s when East Asia, SE Asia and Europe grew. Now everyone has abandoned protectionism and the patrons of capitalism have fallen in love with protectionism.
We know how the story ends, a rising Asia and a rapidly declining USA on the way to being China or India of the 50s/60s.
2
Does anyone actually believe that the idea for tariffs on solar panels originated with Trump and not Tillerson? Not only will this slow the rate of solar power installation, something desperately needed to combat global warming, but it amounts to a tax on consumers. I'm sure the value of levying new taxes on consumers in order to make the recent tax giveaways to corporations more revenue neutral is not lost on the CEO's running the country. Foreign policy by Exxon....welcome to the dystopia, and look for a war with Iran in our next chapter....
10
Eight years ago I bought a washer and vacuum cleaner. I was determined to buy American-made. After researching various models and companies, it was revealed that the American companies had been swallowed by hedge funds and resold multiple times, and that they all produced inferior, poorly made products, mainly sourced from overseas manufacturers. Reluctantly, I purchased an LG (Korean) washer and a Miele (German) vacuum. I have never regretted my purchases.
20
Putting a tariff up mainly allows manufacturers to raise prices and avoid innovation and upgrades. The profits mainly go to off-shore tax havens.
14
Comments like this one are fair, but they simply illustrate that a typical human being is BOTH a "consumer" and a "worker:"
"And increase the cost of necessary appliances by 30-50%? Thanks a lot Trump!"
When the human being puts on his "worker" hat, he's glad he's got a well-paying job making widgets in America. But when he takes off his "worker" hat, puts on his "consumer" hat and heads to his local Walmart to buy a widget, he's not so happy to learn that widgets cost 30% more BECAUSE they're made in America.
6
I wonder if it really matters where the robots that make washing machines are located. Good Paying American jobs disappeared when the meek workers in "right to work states" stole jobs from Union shops.
5
Despite stagnant wages, most Americans are still able to hold their head above water because consumer products imported from China and other East Asian countries are cheap and plentiful. Restricting global trade will only hurts those middle and lower class Americans as it raises prices for both imported and domestically produced goods. Today solar panels and washing machines, tomorrow something else. When will it end?
13
Did the Administration even consider the possibility of tariffs being imposed on US exports to China? Agricultural products, which constitute a quarter of our exports to that country make go unscathed, but what about civilian aircraft and vehicles? Is Boeing or GM concerned about possible retaliation? Might they expand operations in China domestically in the face of such tariffs?
https://www.chinabusinessreview.com/what-america-exports-to-china/
I also doubt the tariff on solar panels has anything to do with their undercutting American companies. It's just another feature of the Administration's preference for fossil fuels. Solar panels are a drop in the bucket when its comes to US imports from China. They were chosen for their symbolic value in places like West Virginia and Oklahoma.
https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/chn/
14
Are there enough washers and solar panels to supply the current needs in this country? If there aren’t enough panels to keep up with the demands won’t that affect the workers who lose jobs? If American panels aren’t being sold now because of expense then how would that help the consumer?
3
Steve the Tuna is right:
"Don't hold your breath ... Manufacturers are STILL going to manufacture overseas until freight costs become higher than the savings in labor and deregulation."
And freight costs aren't likely to rise much any time soon, if ever.
I recently read an obscure book named "The Box," which focused on shipping containers (boring, I know: In the introduction, the author noted that polite friends had sometimes asked him what he was working on these days; when he replied "a book on shipping containers," the friends didn't quite know what to say next. Pretty soon, the author wrote, he started giving vague answers to their initial question to avoid this awkwardness.)
"The Box" author noted that shipping-container costs are so low these days that many economists simply ignore shipping costs when comparing the cost of a product made in the US with one made in, say, China. It's not realistic to expect that this will change.
I remember an earlier illustration of this: when George W. Bush imposed a temporary tariff on foreign-made steel. Before that tariff, it was much cheaper for a US steel buyer to buy steel made in the Far East -- even if that steel had been made from iron ore mined in the US' Mesabi range -- because shipping costs for both the ore and the finished steel were so low.
Tariffs can "work," but only short-term. In the long run, a product will be made by the lowest-cost producer, and shipping costs (or tariffs) won't change this.
4
"In the long run, a product will be made by the lowest-cost producer, and shipping costs (or tariffs) won't change this."
No. Tariffs do not respond to market forces, because they are set by fiat.
2
Solar panels and washing machines? These two items aren't chosen by Trump for any economic or policy rationale. They provide--like everything that Trump does--rallying points for his campaign and red meat for his base. Slapping tariffs on Chinese solar panels is a wink and a nod to West Virginia and other coal producing regions as if raising the cost of solar energy will somehow make coal more competitive (it certainly will not) and a message to his base that he's delivering on his promise to take on the Chinese. Washing machines further his random obsession over appliances that began with his campaign. Carrier and Whirlpool--air conditioners and washing machines--gave him the talking points in the Midwest that help him connect with working class voters. Slapping a tariff on LG washing machines furthers his narrative that he's a blue-collar president looking out for American manufacturing, eliding the fact that this is a New York real estate developer who relied on cheap Chinese steel when it mattered to HIS bottom line. Much like his rants against the mainstream media, undocumented immigrants, NFL players, and women who are standing up against sexual harassment, Trump is weaponizing grievances of his political base to cynically turn them into simplistic rallying cries. They'll provide a moment of sugar high at a Trump rally, but they'll do nothing to address the underlying economic dynamics of energy production and manufacturing base.
23
"To retain good paying tech jobs Americans should insist on making "HIGH VALUE ADD" products like AI weather prediction, self-driving cars, service robots, space-age materials, medicines/vaccines, control systems, clean energy generation equipment and gene therapies."
While I agree with you in principle, none of those technologies will spur employment for most Americans. Most of those technologies employ workers with above-average educations and skills, and many are highly automated. I strongly believe we need a major infusion of Federal monies into programs to retrain displaced American workers and help them move to where the jobs are. But I also believe that if we want to put more people to work we need to invest in infrastructure projects more than self-driving automobiles.
6
IF, and that's a big unproven IF, tariffs work to bring back jobs, let's also modify this tax giveaway too. Only companies that show an increase in jobs, benefits, and workers' salaries across the board, get a lower rate AND they get even a better rate should they produce a quality product that's globally competitive.
I'm sure we can easily find metrics to measure this progress.
4
Sherrie Jobs for manufacturing not comping back. With automation more and more companies would prefer to invest in robots and hire skilled engineers to support them.
2
Credit where credit is due -- to China, here.
A few years back, the Chinese government allowed a large Chinese solar-panel manufacturer (I can't remember its name now, but it was the world's largest, or close) to go broke after the price plunge. Many expected that the Chinese government would subsidize the Chinese manufacturer so it could continue to sell solar panels in the US, but that didn't happen.
And remember Solyndra?
The US government effectively guaranteed a $500 million loan on which Solyndra promptly defaulted, leaving US taxpayers holding the bag. The Solyndra process indeed yielded better solar panels, but at a cost far higher than plunging solar-panel prices. The US government thought this was pretty neat – proof of American superiority -- which is why it guaranteed the loan. But buyers were left with a choice between 1 "better" Solyndra panel or, say, 10 "inferior" solar panels made overseas. Even if only 8 out of those 10 panels worked, and if those that worked were only 50% as efficient as the Solyndra panels, a buyer was still better off buying those 10 inferior panels at, say, 5% of the price of 1 Solyndra panel.
That's what happened, and Solyndra went broke. I don't think a 30% tariff would have saved Solyndra, but Trump's tariff is essentially trying to "protect" the next Solyndra. I doubt that will work. Products subject to high tariffs have a way of finding their way into markets without paying the tariff, at least if the tariff is set high.
1
This has nothing to do with protecting the solar energy industry, and everything to do with protecting the fossil fuel industry.
11
Once warmed by fire and sun,
We gave oil and coal a fine run.
Now panels denied
Putting logic aside
We’ll end up where we begun.
9
And how does this help the average American? Hundreds of thousands of solar installation employees will lose jobs as costs skyrocket. Impede the growth of a clean, alternative energy source. And increase the cost of necessary appliances by 30-50%? Thanks a lot Trump!
9
The rest of the world is moving fast and furiously towards renewable energy. Will DJT follow up this action by calling for spending to encourage US manufacturing and investment to keep pace with the rest of the world? Or, will we continue to dig coal out of the ground?
9
Message to Congress (and be truthful): Are these goods from overseas being sold below their cost i.e. are they being subsidized in the producing country? Yes or no?
If "yes" then have you an argument that the trade pact is unfair? If "no" then wrapping a protective barrier around domestic manufacturers will end up with inferior goods from them.
Some manufacturers plan to produce overseas so as take the extra profit. What about them?
2
As a consumer, I really don't care where products are made. I want good value for my dollar, which is inclusive of how reliable it is, the quality of the worksmanship, and how technologically updated it is. For some things like appliances, I generally will go Asian or German, for other things I'd only go American or European. Doubt the tariffs will make much difference for me in the overall math.
4
Most working class Americans are more cost-conscious than you.
Else there would be no Walmart and no huge market for cheaply made foreign goods.
1
Seems to me there was a story during the election about a plant in Iowa that manufactured solar panels but could not expand because it could not find enough skilled workers such as welders. Perhaps our problem is not due to imports.
17
Don't hold your breath awaiting new washing machine and solar panel factories to be built in the US. Manufacturers are STILL going to manufacture overseas until freight costs become higher than the savings in labor and deregulation. They may employ some final ASSEMBLY work in the US, but no one wants heavy product manufacturing in their area if the now gutted EPA will let them dump their lead, mercury and other toxic detritus into local ground water. Solar panels contain some nasty acids, rare earth metals and carcinogenic trace elements and SHOULD be manufactured in countries that are happy killing its citizens like China and Myanmar Washers are commodities until they invent one that loads, unloads, sorts and folds your clothes they are 'low value add' products and vulnerable to price competition. To retain good paying tech jobs Americans should insist on making "HIGH VALUE ADD" products like AI weather prediction, self-driving cars, service robots, space-age materials, medicines/vaccines, control systems, clean energy generation equipment and gene therapies. The best way to go broke is being the last, best producer of a dying product. Ask anyone who made buggy whips and bed warmers. Many banks and countries like Norway are divesting of fossil fuels, there will be a HUGE opportunities bringing the world to a 100% renewable energy future. Panel and washer factory jobs are easily automated and the gains will be fleeting.
3
"... if the now gutted EPA will let them dump their lead, mercury and other toxic detritus into local ground water."
Where are "lead, mercury and other toxic detritus" used when manufacturing washing machines?
"Solar panels contain some nasty acids, rare earth metals and carcinogenic trace elements ..."
If the panels "contain" what you say, why is that a problem?
1
There are dire warnings about prices going up because of tariffs. It's a small price to pay for social justice. Now the benefits of capitalism will be more fairly distributed, and the cruel forces of creeping globalism reversed. It's a replay of the workers' movement and the rise of unions a century ago. Republicans were complaining then. Now it's the Democrats who can't adjust to changing times. They delude themselves into thinking they're going to stage a comeback in 2018 and 2020, but they have no new answers--just more of the same. It will be a generation before this all washes out and Democrats win again. It all goes in cycles, but the generational process of renewal is the key to American success.
3
Global trade is the reason for American prosperity. We are disproportionate beneficiaries of global trade because with only 5% of world population we take 25% of world GDP. This share of the pie(while the pie continues to grow) is going to shrink with the rise of Asia and its only natural because Asia is over 50% of world population. BUT our loss is only relative NOT absolute. We feel poorer because others rose NOT because we declined. BUT ISOLATING ourselves from global economy will usher in absolute decline.
The issue with globalization is there is a segment that loses WHILE the educated segment gains disproportionately. The solution is to tax the rich and retrain the losers of globalization/mechanization and provide universal healthcare to those who can't afford to pay for healthcare. It is wrong lessons learned to think we can win a global trade war because we can't and we will lose by ceding power on a platter to China on emerging technologies like solar, wind etc while we languish with old OIL.
9
That's the pitch the Democrats are making because they have to. Trump is offering a different approach which relies on market forces to create demand for workers instead of just offering training for theoretical jobs which don't even exist right now and for which there is currently no demand. The Democrats under Obama had eight years to fix the problem but failed. Maybe they needed more time, but in the meantime we had an election. How could they miscalculate so? I recall Obama saying one percent growth in GDP was the new norm. Now it's over three percent and Democrats are trying to take credit for it. Too late.
1
How is trump's approach based on market when he wants to isolate America? The growth of US economy is not much different now than in 2016. The tax cuts for the rich and corporations will give a sugar high but increase the debt from 105% of GDP to the levels of Greece(over 140% of GDP). So there won't be any money left for SS and Medicare going forward.
2
Well, selfishly, Whirlpool does not make good appliances. I know from recalls and purchases myself that LG makes great products, TVs, washers and Dryers, and I have discovered this having seen Whirlpool washing machines, refrigerators, ranges and microwaves fail in many many properties here in Florida working as an extremely busy Realtor.
15
Just bought a new washer. Was warned against Whirlpool by two separate stores.
1
"... having seen Whirlpool [products] fail in many many properties ..."
Why are Whirlpool products being installed in "properties"? And what do you do when they "fail"?
1
Hopefully, this Pacific trade mess will not lead to a repeat of December 1941, but, rather, to the rest of the world being patient until the "great negotiator's" 15 minutes run out.
18
Don't try a trade war with China. We've already lost that one. Wm.
Some (many years ago) while still in high school I had a talk with a friend whose father was a plumber. My father was a non-unionized clerk on a loading dock for a retailer.
We drove by a picket line and I wondered out loud just what the issues were in the strike and who was right or wrong. My friend snapped back at me and said "You never cross a picket line!" I wondered to myself (my friend was tougher than me) well I wouldn't cross a picket line if I thought their demands and position was justified. Otherwise I would cross one. This included whether or not something was advantageous to my own bottom line. Always made sense to this Republican.
Fast forward to today's actions. We evaluate actions as to whether or not they help our individual bottom line regarding washing machines.
Gotta love it.
1
So now the free market is dead thanks to Trump. Nationalism and Socialism, what could go wrong?
Jp,
You refuse to cross picket lines not for some abstract moral reason but because you hope the picketers will remember and not cross yours. We used to call this solidarity. I'm sorry your friend didn't help you out here.
2
And .... the consumers lose! US manufacturers will look at the now higher prices for imports and raise their prices too - probably only slightly below the imports - and people will continue to buy the imports. As to solar panels, show me a fossil fuel that can reduce my monthly electric bill to $6. And in remote places solar panels will survive when complicated fossil fuel pipe lines are disrupted - see Puerto Rico as an example. Solar panels have reduced costs tremendously, they are a good investment that will continue to thrive even with higher prices. Consumers will pay more but there will be little or no job creation (remember Carrier?). Just another con.
25
Your pricing scenario is exactly what happened to tires.
Tires got so expensive that people were literally renting tires to pass inspections (and then putting the old deteriorated ones back on after the car passed).
Back in the old country, Chris Christie kept cutting, then ended, the clean energy rebate for solar in NJ.
The Solar Center, in Rockaway, that installed my solar panels went out of business shortly after.
Trump is out to harm the clean energy revolution also.
His republican mindset will harm many folks, increase pollution, lung diseases, etc.
How heartbreaking to see a child with asthma, an elderly person with breathing tubes, a citizen cut down in the prime of life, struggling to breath. Trump !
What an evil imbecile.
32
Mo information about what is "unfair" about the competition in these industries. Is there a claim of unfairness or is this pure protectionism?
14
It's about oil and coal. Dirty energy that makes a few people rich but does nothing to help the rest of us.
Awesome. The “President” is going to cause a major trade war because he doesn’t understand trade or the agreements that are in place. Fantastic.
23
Trump is going to cause a depression with his ignorant, superstition based policies. That's ok by him. Depressions help the wealthy. They only hurt the middle classes and the poor.
28
The Chinese aren't paying the tariffs -- the US consumer will pay the tariff in higher prices for both products. Additionally it's American workers who install solar panels -- so this will cut into their wages as fewer people buy solar panels. Additionally Samsung just opened a plant to build their washing machines in South Carolina -- if they can't easily get parts that are manufactured in Asia, then that will also affect the workforce in the US plant.
Tariffs are ridiculous. This from Trump who has the junk he sells made outside the US and same with his daughter's clothing line.
I will admit though that Trump does know a lot about "laundering" which is probably the reason he decided to go after washing machines.
39
And how ironic that "laundering" is most likely one of the reasons Mueller is going after Trump. Evidentally things really do work in cycles, after all.
2
Trump "slaps" tariffs. When the economic impact of this comes around, third world women will again be "slapping" rocks down by the riverside.
1
Classic Trump stupidity. Instead of developing a comprehensive trade policy incorporating the potential impacts on American consumers and workers, he just fires off a volley across the bow of our most important trading partners.
Trump has again demonstrated his ignorance. Perhaps he should take a look at the "made in" labels on almost everything we buy in a Walmart or through Amazon. Please do. And track the inflation this will cost as China and others make up the difference on other products.
Stupid is as stupid does. But Donald Duck will feel good because he'll have something else to bring attention to himself. Doesn't really matter what happens to his constituents who are being hoodwinked daily.
Maybe when Apple and Samsung phones start to get more expensive, someone will notice that there will be payback. Or maybe we'll all start buying American made phones....oops.....you can't.
17
This is awful. State run economic incentives and protectionism for oil, tariffs on solar. This is NOT ok. Stalinist tactics.
14
The tarrifs make sense.
The "cheap" solar panels would have remained cheap only until the last competitor to China went out of business.
Then, with the monopoly, the Chinese companies would have raised prices.
Now, if China wants to dominate this industry, it will have to subsidize its companies even more.
There are many U.S. companies doing solar R&D. There is a lot of room to grow in increasing the efficiency of solar panels (currently ranging from 15% to 25%).
These companies have invested heavily in scientists and tooling to increase the efficiency. This involves high-skill jobs (more than the installer jobs that are expected to take a hit).
Trump's decision breathes some life into this segment of the industry.
4
There are fewer than 2,000 people WORLDWIDE working at the PHOTONIC level of solar cell R&D and efficiency, and only a few hundred are Americans. While they are highly skilled, highly paid physicists and chemists, they are a drop in the bucket compared to 320,000 who sell, install and service solar in the US today. THAT is the industry you want to grow and protect, not the couple hundred PhDs in highly automated factories that MIGHT be working at the sub-atomic level to squeeze more efficiency out of products made essentially of sand, aluminum and glass.
4
The solar panel tariff will likely be an American job killer. There are far more jobs installing solar panels than in manufacturing them, particularly in the U.S., where panel assembly is much more automated. The loss of access to lower cost panels will cost U.S. solar installers jobs.
18
Determined to Make America Last, trump bumbles yet again. This know nothing potus will mangle our conversation to cheap clean solar power, costing far more jobs than he thinks will be replaced in manufacturing. Our solar industry was booming, but he and his ignorant adopting, but incredibly uninformed followers may be happy playing Poke the Tiger, but retaliatory measures will certainly follow. Meanwhile we, the people, will get to enjoy spending that whooping middle class tax break (wow, as much as $1000 for some of us lucky hoi poloi) on the increased prices he is creating. And too bad for the trump suckers who lose their jobs. Back to the coal mines for them. SAD.
12
Trade imbalance is the result of US corporations manufacturing their products in location with cheap labour in order to make more money. The American public have benefitted from less expensive goods manufactured overseas. Trump wants to bring manufacturing jobs back which would make products more expensive for his base and they think it’s great. Are they stupid or what?
10
Yes, they want to pay $400 for a pair of $100 shoes. It all makes sense. But the problem is, if you make 35k a year, you won't be able to buy shoes now (okay you are wearing $30 shoes anyway).
3
Trump - you really don't want to pick a fight with the WTO. You have no transactional relationship with them and no power over them and we will all lose. This is moronic. The Republican Party used to stand for open markets and I didn't always agree with them; but here there is no evidence of foreign dumping or unfair practices.
6
"Whirlpool’s chairman, Jeff M. Fettig, called the decision “a victory for American workers and consumers alike.” “This announcement caps nearly a decade of litigation and will result in new manufacturing jobs in Ohio, Kentucky, South Carolina and Tennessee,” he said."
Baloney.
10
We need free and fair trade and that has been the problem.We are not totally innocent since Boeing receives subsidies in the form of defense contracts.
5
“...cost of solar installation has fallen 70%...from $7.50 to about $1.00.” In an era where the obvious truth is called “fake news” the Times should at least get simple math right. Otherwise a very good article. The biggest effect of these tariffs will, I think, be weakening our influence with South Korea, as they recalibrate their relationship with the North.
2
Let the trade wars begin! - a problem with protectionist strategies. You see, no multipart anything is truly single-country sourced anymore. Whirlpool washers are ~25% "foreign" components - which we import. Also, these tariffs have the potential to affect the economy for us in a negative manner. Even if the imported product approaches a US based cost thus "leveling the field", it doesn't mean more jobs will be created - at least not a significant number - remember, most manufacturers try very hard to reduce labor content.
The entire concept of global trade is multifaceted, and yes, there needs to be intelligent discussion and improvements to support fair deals. But if anyone thinks that the trump admin is capable of diplomatically making this change happen - well I think his track record speaks for itself.
4
Free trade wasn't so free. Many lost their jobs to foreign competition, while consumers ended up with generic, trashy goods that still cost too much. In the process the social contract which spread the benefits of society to all and not just to the privileged elites was ripped up. Now, thanks to Trump, the proper balance between workers and business interests is being restored. We will all pay a little more for goods and services but more people will benefit. One of the great ironies of the time is that it took a Republican--Trump--to listen to the needs of the American worker while the so-called "liberals" were ready to sacrifice them to the forces of global capitalism. Even in these NYT blogs there was a general attitude of contempt for the "deplorables," who were criticized for just not having the skills to keep up. Survival of the fittest, I guess. Well,Trump put an end to all that.
3
Really? Do you think that the opiod-infested states that have labor shortages now will be able to deliver manufactured goods just because of a couple of tariffs? And, you won't be paying a little more, but a lot more. I am pretty thrifty and reduce, reuse, recycle so I'm not all that worried. And I will buy my washing machine this year, and maybe some solar panels before the tariffs go into effect.
6
Do you know what's INVOLVED in making panels & washers? Once you have the raw materials made into component parts the assembly process is easily programmable, repeatable and automated. US jobs Trump is supposedly 'saving' are going to be among the first roboticized. The jobs no one can outsource include selling, installing and maintaining alternate energy systems and researching new technologies that reduce our need for energy and eliminate combustion as a way to generate power. We have no even tapped the surface of the potential energy revolution out there - and probably won't if we focus on keeping 19th century manual piece-part jobs at the expense of a 21st Century knowledge based economy.
2
Many of those foreign products are superior to the American ones.
This smells like the fossil fuel industry is behind this. And Trump is all about propping up a dying industry that is near its end and refuses to give up. So much for the invisible hand of the economy. All these libertarian business owners love that invisible hand unless it effects them. Hypocrites!
8
This really helps the environment...
2
If we were smart we would be subsidizing the solar industry but our politicians are stuck in the past and focus on fossil fuels instead. All this idiot has done is made it seem like he's doing something to save American jobs but in reality installers will pay the price so he's saving a few jobs while costing thousands more. But I'm sure this will play well on Fox and that's all Trump cares about.
11
Of course they chose solar panels... to help the coal industry: pathetic! The fake and ignorant so called president is doing everything he can to put in peril the next generations and in particular my grandchildren!
10
I wonder how this will play out during cocktail hour at Davos....
NOT my president
7
Well there goes my dream of installing solar panels for my home and buying an electric car! It was just barely penciling out as cost effective before Trump made this idiotic decision, now I will probably have to wait a few more years.. Sigh, and I want to do the environmentally right thing and reduce my consumption of fossil fuels, but not if the costs becomes a net loss.
3
Gotta save that coal, right?
5
Darn! I was going to slap a panel on my LG next month so that it could run on solar energy.
I guess I will have to convert my house to run on coal and then buy a washboard and cast iron tub to wash my clothes!
6
We should be investing in solar technology to a much greater extent...instead Trump is playing games with the industry. The guy is a failure.
6
Just like the majority of his "past" business ventures!
1
Is this what Making America Great Again is?
3
Problem is, no American made washing machine is worth buying.....
7
I guess I had better keep that 15 year old Bosch made Kenmore elite as long as I can huh ;)
The solar panel tariff is a gift to coal, and a blow to a lot of electricians, installers, battery makers etc. and just keeps us from trying to compete. We lost our edge in cars in the 70's by sticking to old stuff and not building efficient safe vehicles, now we are going to stick with an old centralized systems that only benefits a couple of companies! Go Duke power!!!!
washing machines? GE sold their factory a while ago
8
Why not place a tariff on his daughter's clothing line too? I know, he wants women to look good in their polluted environments.
5
Is normal day in Russia.
7
How about a tariff on those Trump shirts and ties and Ivanka purses that are made in China, Bangladesh dash, Vietnam and anywhere else with cheap and abused laborers ? Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-y-s-y ?
That David Letterman show where Trump looked sheepishly on, red-faced, as Letterman read the foreign made labels on each article of Trump Ware is burned into my memory bank.
Oh the irony .......
10
This is among the most stupid, narrow and shortsighted decisions made by a president who loves making stupid, narrow and shortsighted decisions.
My husband and I power our house in the Catskills with the energy produced by solar panels we had installed about 10 years ago. The panels were made in China, but sold to us and installed for us by a company (now bought out by another company then located in Saratoga Springs, NY. The company was American, and the four workers who installed the panels were Americans.
Is it really hard to understand that banning solar panels made in China will result in increased costs for people who want to go solar? Is it really hard to understand that people like my husband and me, who had to reach deep in our pockets to go solar, might very well pass on going solar if the cost of the panels goes up? is it really hard to understand that this increased cost will result in fewer jobs for American workers installing solar panels?
Like I said, stupid, narrow and shortsighted.
P.S. We amortized the cost of going solar in eight years.
P.P.S. Don't get me started on Whirlpool's lousy products.
10
Fettig: "This announcement ..... will result in a few new jobs running the manufacturing robots in Ohio, Kentucky, South Carolina and Tennessee”
5
And so the trade wars begin. Launched by the Jell-O president whose grasp of global facts are as nonexistent as his spine.
5
Say it with me, “President Trump”. Someone needs to have a sit down with these writers and editors and make it clear that it’s “President Trump”, not this Mr. Trump nonsense.
We've been in a trade war forever. We just hadn't fired any shots. People here want those cheap dumped Asian products though.
First Solar up over 5% at the open. Good!
1
There is no significant US based and owned solar production, so that can’t be the reason.
I guess this could be seen as an acknowledgement by Trump that solar exists, and it’s impact is not insignificant.
Because all he talks about is coal and oil.
1
Had to replace my first washing machine - not made in the USA but had lasted close to 15 years. Loved the stupid thing. Finally just died.
Replaced it ( unfortunately ) with an American made one.
This machine is a complete and absolute disaster .
I will be getting rid of this monstrosity and replacing it with another one NOT made in this country.
I've found that if I need something that it's usually NOT an American made product that will do the job.
Don't care about additional cost from tariffs cause I save money in not having to get endless repairs done.
6
The sentence is potentially misleading: "In each of the four years, the first 2.5 gigawatts of imported solar cells will be exempted from the tariff, an exception designed to ensure that existing solar module manufacturers in the United States can still access cheap supplies." The authors fail to point out that 2.5 giagwatts is a fraction of what the US installs annually - less than 1/4, according to this source: http://bit.ly/2n58bwt
2
When I purchase a big-ticket item, like a washing machine, I want the best value for my money. I don't care where the machine was made. If Whirlpool makes a machine that works great, lasts for years, and is priced right, I'll probably buy it. If they don't, I probably won't. It's up to Whirlpool to win my dollars. I won't buy an inferior product just because it was made in the US. The US has to produce goods that compete favorably with foreign goods. If they can't do that, and need tariffs on their competition's products in order to succeed, what does that say about the company? Tariffs don't offer an incentive to make better products, they discourage innovation and encourage mediocrity.
5
The South Koreans will start manufacturing washing machines in the US
I hate Donald Trump. But as an owner of US-made solar panels and US-made appliances, he may have finally done one thing I agree with. People on the left mistakenly credit cheap Chinese manufacturing for exclusively bringing down the cost of solar, but ignore the even more noteworthy technical innovations by western companies that are really the driving force in these improvements. Without protection against the predation of Chinese dumping, these companies won’t be around to innovate. Their demise will mean a short term plunge in prices, but a long term detriment as innovation gives way to cut-rate copying.
1
Your US made solar panels were manufactured by a Chinese or German majority owned company. The profits are going to Beijing and Berlin regardless. For every solar manufacturing job in the US this may help, a good ten or so solar installation jobs in the US will be hurt. How is that helpful? The ultimate goal, surely, is to convert as much electricity production as possible to renewable energy as inexpensively as possible. Far more intelligent would have been to subsidize the native US solar R&D and manufacturing industry through tax credits and loans rather than taxing the American consumer so as to benefit fossil fuel purveyors and electrical utilities. As to the protection of Whirlpool, it is frankly unconscionable. Take a look at Consumer Reports or comments on this article: Whirlpool washing machines are among the worst in quality. This tax on better, albeit foreign, goods simply subsidizes bad quality goods. Like many others I will pay as much as double to buy high quality American goods rather than cheap imports, but I won't save money to buy American garbage. That's what destroyed US manufacturing in the first place.
Sorry..but so called "American" made appliances do not exist. oh they may be assembled here but of foreign made components. Whether we like it or not we are a global economy and no amount of tarrifs or underhanded tactics Trump comes up with is going to alter that path. He is simply speaking to his "ever shrinking" base. Hopefully his presidency will be a minor bump in the road and we can get back to what this country needs in the next election or with any luck sooner.
"USA First" is not economically feasible any longer. Reality is, the USA has competition. If China or any other country wants to get along without American products, it is easy to do that. Lots of countries can produce cars, washing machines, steel, corn, beef, software, solar panels, what have you.
If China's manufacturing is harmed by Trump's moves, China, in my opinion, will retaliate with high tariffs on imports from the U.S.
If washing machine jobs are created in the U.S. as a result of Trump's moves, agriculture jobs will be lost. If solar panel jobs are created, automobile jobs will be lost (particularly G.M.).
(Obama unequivocally saved G.M. as well as Chrysler, and Trump is killing both. In three years they will be dead, in my opinion, because of Trump's trade policies. Of course, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security also will be killed off to pay for the tax breaks to the rich, so misery will have its company.)
5
trump put 300 percent tariff on bombardier planes.canada cancelled a 6 billion dollar jet plane deal with boeing.works both ways.
8
This move by the Trump administration is a win-win for the domestic extraction industry & the MIC. Suppress the growing switch to solar based on cheap import pricing & ramp up the fears of Chinese territorial aggression in the South China Sea & the foothills of the Himalayas by launching a long belated trade war.
Sherrod Brown's efforts on the behalf of Whirlpool deserve commendation however as we need a source of supply as a stopgap against trade wars & military tensions resulting in a cutoff or disruption of supply.
Alternately threatening & appeasing unfair trading practices got us where we are today, almost totally dependent on foreign sources of supply of consumer goods produced by what our standards call slave labor. Governmental support of domestic manufacture to thwart the globalists, some with their hedged & alleged status as American companies may be necessary. The Republicans will never let consumer goods become more expensive by insisting on domestic manufacture, unless of course, a war is ginned up. More grandstanding from the Trump admin.
3
Does no one remember how a Republican Congress led us into the Great Depression with the passage of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?
Trumpler daily does a favor for Putin that will sink this nation so deep in economic, political, social, and legal turmoil that we might never recover.
From disallowing immigrants in this nation of immigrants and disabling several economic sectors which rely upon them, to undermining marriage through coarse actions against women, Trumpler is the epitome of what an attack from an enemy from within looks like.
4
Do you realize that Obama setup the original tariff against Chinese solar panels in 2012? This is simply closing the loopholes that the Chinese have found to move their sales to other countries to avoid the tariff.
2
I've moved a lot over the last 15 years. In each new house or apartment I've needed to buy a new washer, dryer, or dishwasher. I learned very quickly not to buy Whirlpool appliances - they're basically disposable pieces of junk.
We, as Americans, need to stop blaming everyone else for our problems. If companies like Whirlpool want more customers, they shouldn't run to the government for protectionist trade laws to prop them up. Rather, they should make a product that lasts and is easy to use.
By the way, President Hoover enacted protectionist trade laws after the crash of '29, which most economists agree made the economy collapse even further, because other countries retaliated with tarriffs of their own, raising costs of doing business, and reducing business overall. Anyone who took a basic economics class should know this! Didn't Trump go to .....Wharton????
3
Once we go down the tariff road, it is vey difficult to go back. Retaliation against US business will follow, and inflation will sky rocket. Only WW2 brought the US out of the downward spiral, though that solution is no longer on the table.
4
Looks like the Koch Brothers, big oil and coal were able to buy off Trump again. They will benefit- no one else will. Americans get hammered again as Trump panders to the 1%er's who own him. How will his Walmart supporters feel when they go to buy a new appliance that is now $100 more?
4
"How will his Walmart supporters feel when they go to buy a new appliance that is now $100 more?"
Apparently Walmart was in the vanguard of globalism. All progressive thinkers must no lament how Walmart will be hurt by these tariff action.
Who'd have thunk it!
1
Put the tariff in place but not steep so that prices go up suddenly. He can penalize Corporations for taking jobs elsewhere and putting money away in offshore banks instead of tax cuts. Meanwhile we can develop and help our solar energy industry to grow very fast. Prices will go up minimally or not and consumers will get superior products made in the U.S.A. This would also create thousands of jobs unlike the coal industry which would only increase by a few hundreds. Even the coal industry leaders have acknowledged that. These same coal miners can become the workforce behind the production of solar panels. The miners work in a safe environment without any fear of losing their lives. So many positives - avoid loss of life and irreversible health damage, a steady paycheck for the American workers, clean energy and protection of the environment and avoid penalties by W.T.O. when countries like China and South Korea cry foul. As for cars, let's start making our own Honda Civics and Hyundais. But then we have a President with a narrow vision, short time gain, if any, just like his attention span. He is idiotic enough not to believe the scientists about climate change and taking every step to destroy our Country and the Planet. How I wish we could just tell him, " You are fired ".
1
Unfortunately, almost no Trump supporters will read any of these comments and if they did it wouldn't change a thing. In fact, disturbing NYT readers is a feature of this policy not a drawback.
1
Not true. I read for entertainment value.
Its unfortunate that liberals don't understand that Obama setup the original tariff against Chinese solar panels in 2012 and Trump is simply closing loopholes of the OBAMA program.
2
Trump is a dangerous bully that allies himself with white supremacists enemies of the U.S., and blatantly attacks the separation of powers and other parts of the constitution.
But one reason Trump got elected because the establishment politicians have been letting China cheat on trade since Kissinger, Clinton and the Bushes gave them Most Favored Nation status.
China routinely subsidizes its industries, which then sell products at below cost, so they can steal market share and drive competitors out of business.
The solar panel was invented in the U.S., but now 95% of panels are made somewhere else. But this goes back to China decimating or steel industry, and numerous other industries in between.
If there is a trade war, it will because China started it, not us.
Liberals have to make sure that they do not oppose everything Trump does just because he does it, like he is doing with Obama policies.
If the Democratic Party puts trade above workers it will continue to lose.
Protectionism has been turned into a dirty word by corporate media, but protecting important things can be a good thing.
The global trade regime that has been "fast-tracked" by establishment politicians, while Republicans cried that "government can't pick winners and losers," (while China picks winners and losers) has been a disaster for American workers because they are not serious negotiations that take all stake holders into account, but shortcuts passed for the profits of global corporations.
Hopefully this will reduce the number of exploding washing machines in American homes.
3
This is a tax...Donald's Tax..where is our congress?
3
We should not be playing this game with China. They have their hands at our throat because of all of the US debt they own. One day they might dump it all outright. That will hasten the inevitable collapse of our stumbling, bankrupt colossus of a nation.
6
I am a Canadian who has moved around and now lives permanently in Norway.
Who would buy American 'white goods' when they don't last, and items like fridges, clothes and dish washers, driers, heat pumps, etc. tend to be high energy consumers and very very noisy?
I will buy Swedish or German white goods, as they function well and last forever. We do not buy based on lowest cost or stupid 'bells and whistles'. Quality and energy efficiency sells.
LG, Panasonic and Samsung are also good competitors particularly on electronic goods and including large items like heat pumps. US producers of heat pumps/air conditioners like Carrier are a joke in my opinion. They deserve to go bankrupt for their inefficient and noisy designs.
Blocking competitors from the US market will not help US producers in the long run. They will simply continue to produce substandard goods that are uncompetitive, while punishing consumers with higher prices.
7
So we are now suppose to buy Whirlpool washers which are junk instead of LG and Samsungs which are far better in quality or else we pay a mob fee which is what this is. Whirlpool is the what the American auto industry was years ago, producing junk while Japan and others produced quality cars. Of course, when other countries impose tariffs on USA products, who is going to buy them abroad when they can get it cheaper from China and others. We are cutting our noses to spite our face. This is the nonsense Trump spews to his base of feeble minded people. This is not going to create more jobs, maybe in China and abroad, but not here. False narrative, just like his bogus tax cuts for the "middle class" who will see less than 25% of the benefits, while the rich get 75%. As in the words of our bogus President spoken to an audience of rich folks at his swindling resort..."I just made you richer". Playing America for fools. This from the guy that has never met leadership, watches TV all day, plays all day with his twitter like a child plays with Lego Blocks, then goes to his hideaway to play golf all day. Then claims to be "working". Nothing but a sham President.
6
Tax the imports and invest the money in improving domestic production
Tariffs lead to trade wars, everything becomes more expensive and everybody loses. So much for the party that railed against government intrusion in business. The rest of the world will still enjoy cheap Chinese solar panels and LG washing machines while we rely on coal and junky Whirlpools. MALA, make America Last and Alone.
79
There are times and circumstances in which federal government support of certain industries is warranted. In 1983 Harley-Davidson, which had been bought out of near-bankruptcy by then-current management, requested and received a protective tariff on heavyweight motorcycles from the Reagan administration. The tariff was to run for five years but in 1985 H-D had turned around, told the government the tariff was no longer needed and it was rescinded. The more recent government rescue of the auto industry authorized by Pres. Bush was widely criticized at the time but saved an important US industry — loans were fully repaid, the government’s equity stake turned a profit for taxpayers, and US manufacturers brought many design and manufacturing improvements to bear.
Clean power generation is still in its infancy and IMO it’s important for the federal government to assist American private enterprise in securing the strongest possible competitive position in world markets. Indeed, clean energy generation is so crucial to our long term environmental, economic and military security, that I would favor significant government financial support to develop advanced technologies in America to be owned by American manufacturers.
2
Mixed thoughts on this. Mainly including Solar in the mix when there are many thousands of other items to consider.
Solar is part of a renewable energy. What I see in this choice is pressure not specifically from American solar companies but from fossil fuel people who want to do anything to protect the burning of fuel to produce power.
There is probably more need for a massive production of solar but this tariff will slow adoption due to the increasing cost to home owners who might want to buy solar.
Tariffs will also reduce incentive on US makers to lower cost. Add to that some pulling back on tax credits for going solar.
Makes me wonder on the motivation behind targeting solar.
4
You hit the nail on the head.
1
Obama should have slapped a tariff on Chinese solar panels and used that money to fund development in the US
Doesn't the Constitution give the power to regulate commerce with other nations to the Congress? How is it that the President can levy tariffs without them? Whether or not we agree with what he is doing, how come it's his office doing it?
3
It''s not clear that legally he can and you can be assured his tweets won't be the final word. The man fires off tweets like a toddler and more times than not doesn't have a clue of what he is talking about. Welcome to the new US travesty.
1
If we want to revitalize manufacturing we should mimic Germany -
apprenticeships, highly automated, advanced tooling. Also, German industry has a much deeper commitment than the U.S. to its workers.
The solar business in Germany is thriving, an integral component of their energy and construction industries. Energy consumption in Germany, per capita, is about half that of the U.S.
The Germans don't impose tariffs on imported solar panels.
4
Consumers will benefit from the tariffs imposed on washing machines if it discourages them from buying the two well known South Korean brands. I own an appliance repair company in Ohio, and we've had many customers who have expressed regret after purchasing those brands. Our customers have told us that they fail early, frequently within 1 to 2 years. Parts are hard to get, often taking weeks to arrive, and then arriving broken in the box. We ordered a heating element for a stove (made by one of the South Korean brands mentioned in the article) and it took 4 attempts before we received one that wasn't damaged upon arrival. Repair technicians won't service them because the companies offer no technical support, the machines are built differently and illogically, parts are called by unusual names, are unevenly priced, and of poor quality. My theory is that part of the problem with these brands of appliances is because of "hopscotching their factories around the globe" leading to no oversight and poor quality control. Regardless of the overall impact of the tariffs, consumers are much better off purchasing American made appliances. None are built as well as they were 40 years ago, but they are much better than the ones made in South Korea.
2
Hmm since my high end KitchenAid caught on fire I would say Whirlpool has similar globalization issues ;). I would say the appliances from 10 years ago that bore the Whirlpool name were quality but I replaced my Kitchenaid refrigerator with a far better made LG and haven't looked back. Whirlpool needs to return to making quality products if they want my business.
1
In the time of climate change, there is no room for protectionism. Climate change is real and global and the United States played a large part creating it. This is a time for all hands on board and if those hands happen to be Chinese, that is OK with me. A better strategy than tariffs would be to help the American solar panel manufacturers by transferring some of the subsidies given to oil companies to them and to give incentives to American customers, companies in particular, to install panels and switch to solar energy. Installing those solar panels all over would create a lot of jobs for American workers and be good for the planet.
17
Good luck with 19th century DJT!
1
A big difference is, American companies have to abide by environmental and human rights issues, while Chinese, Pakistani, and quite a few other countries, don't follow any labor or pollution guidelines. Child labor, worker abuses, no protections, dumping pollutants, paying a living wage, etc., add quite a bit to our costs of manufacturing.
The job you save might be your own (yes, I am in American Manufacturing). Yes, I buy American made products as a habit.
2
Christiane, only a very few hermits in the desert Southwest are capable of “switching” to solar electricity.
After tens of $billions in investment, solar generates less than 2% of electricity for the rest of us. And because solar doesn’t generate electricity on demand, it’s necessary to burn fossil-fuel “natural gas” (methane) to back it up.
In 2018, every fossil-fuel-fired electricity plant which is closed will be replaced by two new ones. That’s a trend for which we have both the American Petroleum Institute to thank, and well-intentioned people who think solar electricity is helping to fight climate change. It’s not.
Making solar power more expensive in the U. S. will help advance the administration's goal of "reviving" the dying coal industry and also undercut efforts to combat global climate change. Well done Mr. President. Future generations won't be around to thank you enough.
36
I like that the tariffs may bring home some of this important manufacturing. We have allowed the rest of the world to take the lead on this and it’s time we stepped up. But I’m not sure tariffs alone will do the trick. And I can’t help but think the utility companies are dancing in their boardrooms. They’ve been looking at ways to stem the tide of cheap solar energy that is cutting into their profits.
6
Solar panels are made out of polysilicon. While various production methods are available, the cost of electricity is a primary input to the process. Manufacturers have tended to locate in areas where electrical energy is less expensive to reduce cost of production. It is also one reason (of many) that China, with an continuing abundance of energy (a majority of it dependent on hydrocarbons), can be produce polysilicon more cheaply than the US.
1
American manufacturers can supply our needs.
1
But will they. American companies outsourced a lot of these businesses to China long ago for a multitude of reasons, so let's not delude ourselves into thinking someone forced them out of this country. They did it to satisfy the all mighty bottom dollar.
Tariffs aren't an answer to our jobs problem. Americans need to decide if buying something foreign made is worth it economically not just for themselves but also for this country. I would like to know how many people who voted for trump actually put their money where their vote went. The irony is that trump brand doesn't practice what the trump president preaches.
10
So if Americans buy only American made products in theory it may sound like it will help create jobs here. But America is only 5% of the world market. So if China decides to stop buying American products, it will collapse GM for sure coz China is the largest market for GM and overnight thousands of jobs will be lost. That is just one company. China is also the largest market for Boeing. Imagine what will happen if you extrapolate this to every company in every industry. Hard reality: A big majority of US companies make a majority of their revenues outside the USA. What does that tell you? Trade is a net positive to the US and we benefit the most from trade because we have a relatively small internal market.
10
"I would like to know how many people who voted for trump actually put their money where their vote went."
And next time you lament the passing of the American Dream, understand that dream of upward mobility for a large segment of the population was enabled by the manufacturing sector. That's gone - unionized burger flippers won't bring it back. Building infrastructure will provide short term relief but much of that money will flow off shore to imported consumer good.
Fair enough about purchasing products that help the individual's bottom line. When I first purchased a Honda Accord in the early 1980's my UAW friends called me a Republican and anti-American. Wecome home.
"a relatively small internal market." Really? 18 million car & trucks sold in 2016 alone. Geez, what's a BIG market?
1
You have to wonder just how invested Trump is in coal and oil. He sure doesn't care about America, American jobs, or the American environment. Of course, since he won't release his taxes, we'll never know, will we?
24
Just as I was thinking more and more about solar power for us living in New Mexico the rug possibly will be pulled out from under us. The cost of solar wattage has dropped nearly 75% since 2010 this article affirms if I'm not mistaken. If Trump believes he can hurt China which is the world leader in making solar units, he's probably greatly in error. Chinese built solar panels will emanate from elsewhere like Africa. If so, this is another negative consequential fallout from his grossly insulting remarks about African nations. Insulting others does not pay! Ultimately, this sounds like the lobbying influence of the fossil fuels industries.
14
Trump decided on tariffs less than recommended. Who recommended it? Obama appointees on the trade commission. Its amazing how folks can spin spin spin without facts about the solar market, Chinese subsidies and dumping or about the politics of this.
1
This is why Churchill crossed the floor 1904 and it still is a pointless move for anyone who bothered to read even just one or two pages of Economics.
3
Ths is just another example of Trump's handler Miller' seeking to shore up his base.
It won't last long but Trump won't care. After all, long-term planning for the President is deciding whether he will play one or two rounds of golf on an upcoming holiday weekend.
9
More Trumpian elitism to protect his fellow billionaires cloaked in fake terms that makes the American consumer pay more. Tariffs are nothing but a regressive tax that is added on to the burden that working class and middle class families pay.
Whirlpool and Maytag used to make the best washing machines. Now they make garbage. Our LG washer has lasted longer than both the Whirlpool (under the Kenmore tag) and the Maytag Neptune that proceeded it, together!
But the solar panel duty is SOLELY to kill the solar industry. Trump has trumpeted the fake, phony "clean coal", and nuclear power, deriding solar and wind power, because his pals are in the oil and gas international industries--Russia, Saudi Arabia, and, of course, Rex Tillerson, all of whom see non-polluting energy as a threat.
Power companies in sunshine-abundant state like Nevada and Florida have bitterly fought to PUNISH home-owners who install solar panels to help feed the grid. It's gotten so bad that FPL has been opposed by a coalition of the usual progressive groups AND the local Tea Party (who believe every home owner can be a private energy producer).
Isn't it amazing? It seems for every job Trump "saves", 10 or more are lost, as he's promised to take care of the "forgotten man"--and has, by taxing him more!
22
"Tariffs are nothing but a regressive tax that is added on to the burden that working class and middle class families pay."
That applies to corporate taxes also.
“Instead, the White House took action on imports of washing machines and solar products based on requests by companies who said their operations in the United States were being harmed by imports.”
As soon as they are in trouble they run straight into the arms of the government they so abhor and ask for help. Whatever happened with “my product is better than yours and it will sell on its merits”? Yeah, right.
I’d never replace our German made Siemens washing machine with an American made washing machine. They can’t compete. And, if you think a Siemens or a Miele are cheap, I have news for you. But, like a Toyota or a Honda they work and work and work for a looooooooooooooooooong time. Let us not even start with the solar panels. What an incredible amount of hypocrisy!
I am curious as to what the consumer prices will be for these new “protected” products made in the USA. Considering Americans’ aversion to paying taxes and to expensive products, this will be interesting to observe.
13
Yeah. It's strange how the Republicans are all about competition and free markets, unless they can meddle in the markets to the benefit of their donors.
2
The main problem I have with going solar (besides my clay tile roof, which I'm not letting anybody walk on), is the hard sell tactics at Home Depot and Costco, you can't go in there without those guys doing the ole, "Hi, I'm Vince from ShamWow....", extreme sales pitch regarding solar power, and the vague answers when you ask them who owns it, you or the solar company. I think solar is probably the way to go, but I don't like their sales tactics, and I won't buy products made in countries that use child or slave-type labor, or no environmental protections. Yeah, you can save some money by buying something made by a little kid or someone that makes $1/hour, and the company dumping pollutants into the air and water is showing a pretty strong profit while paying some local officials to look the other way, but ever since the poisoned toothpaste and dog food, I just won't go there any more.
My dad was in the appliance business for 40 years. Whirlpool was once a great brand. Now its just junk.
11
Yes, The imports killed it. This can be fixed by investing the money from these tariffs in the industries that have been hollowed out.
Interesting that a president who "digs coal" is targeting the solar industry. What about all those Ford and GM vehicles made in Mexico? He promised to bring those jobs back home.
7
A step in the right direction. It is time to stop giving away our country.
4
I agree with this concept, IF there is a corresponding move to actually manufacture similar quality goods, resulting in a more manufacturing-based America. I am sick of seeing "Made in China" on almost everything out there.
But even this requires a multi-part change. First, the country needs to create a favorable the climate to provide incentive for investment in American manufacturing plants such that goods made in this country are favored, creating many, many good jobs. Eliminate any incentives for companies to outsource or manipulate the system for their shareholders.
While this sounds good, Americans need to decide to pay more for products to keep this economy humming. Personally, I believe if good-paying jobs were created, people would spend more on other US goods.
If china stops giving away its market to GM, GM will have to file for bankruptcy killing 1000s of jobs because China is GM's largest market. Do you know the majority of US companies make over 50% of the sales from outside the USA? Do you think all of them should be selling only within the USA? Do you think if that happens US economy will thrive?
Another day in the great regressive movement to make America dependent on fossil fuels. So where are all those jobs.
12
A terrible example of Republican inconsistency and nearsightedness. The world pioneer in solar panels, Solarex Corporation, in Rockville, Maryland, was helped in expanding manufacturing and reducing prices by the policies of the Carter administration. When Reagan arrived, the panels were taken off the White House roof and policies encouraging solar were extinguished. The result: American solar panel manufacturing languished and foreign production--with government encouragement--soared.
Now Trump jumps into the fray, 30 years late and 30 dollars short, with a policy which kills American jobs and annoys the countries which have developed their manufacturing.
Congratulation, Republicans.
10
Mr. McKegg, I need to correct that. I think you meant to say, "stole the ideas and products, then started producing copyrighted and trademarked products of inferior quality, while using child labor and paying slave wages."
1
Besides Trump's and Republican's phobia about "foreigners" this is, in part, to make solar more expensive, fewer people will be able to afford it for their homes, and make America even more reliable on non-renewable energy sources - read Koch Brothers here. (see VMG below).
8
I wonder if the WTO rules say anything about companies in a country, like China, being able to buy an entire company outright in another country (like the US)...but NO COMPANIES (or persons) can buy a company outright in China.
Doesn't seem like a level playing field to me.
2
I have long believed that selling US companies to China, Saudi Arabia, whoever is a BAD practice. We are becoming less self-dependent every year. This is one area where Trump's "Make America First" slogan should be focused.
It sure is not a level playing field. The world never works towards being fair. Were you talking about fairness when the US with only 5% of world population took home over 25% of the world wealth? Did you hear the voices of the rest of the world when they were shouting hoarse that "this is not fair"? Of course not, because might is right, right?
But now the table is turned because China is the worlds largest exporter, trading nation, largest market, largest economy etc. American companies desperately seek chinese market(and Indian and European etc) for them to grow. Are you suggesting US companies should not sell in Non-US markets? Because if that happens US economy will collapse over night.
Steve, Don't you believe in capitalism? Or is it that you believe in Capitalism as long as it is the US that keeps buying other poorly run or bankrupt foreign companies? The weak or badly run companies need to be put out of misery because in the long run they will take down 1000s of jobs more than if they are sold to better run companies.
China is the leader in Solar, Wind, High speed rail and other emerging technologies including web 2.0 technologies. If you try to protect US companies then you are protecting a weak company and giving China a free run to keep getting better and achieve economies of scale in technology of the future. This will make US a laggard stuck with industries of the past such as Oil. Us has a big weakness, it is only 5% of world market while China and India alone are 1/3 of world market. Any companies blocked from accessing those markets will die. That is the simple reality of global economics. The table has turned and Americans better wake up and think how can we partner with the Asian giants so we can grow with them.
The solar panel tariffs are simply a way to slow down solar energy progress by the bought and paid for GOP by Big Oil... US solar panel manufacturers will never be able to compete with the Chinese...
9
Can't wait until Australia bangs a 30% import tariff on Ford and GM vehicles, since both brands withdrew their Australian manufacturing plants last year.
What goes around, comes around
10
Don't worry, I'm sure the administration will follow with steep tariffs on imported oil to protect the American oil industry. We'll all be glad to pay more for gasoline to defend the American worker, right? Right?
8
So what company in the US can possibly make solar panels as cheap as China... the labor cost alone in the US is more than China charges to make and deliver them all finished and ready to use...
Second... China could care less about pollution,environmentla or labor laws ... far less cost there to make them and their raw products are also cheaper too ...
So if Trump puts on a tax... then all china stuff rises to US level and your current $99 rv solar panel now is going to be US made and probably $469 plus tax... how many will the US sell ? The imported China one will likely be $299 and they will sell a few ...
And why of all things ? washing machines ? how many people buy those compared to dollar store imported food items or cheap clothing ?
All that makes sense about Trump is that he makes no sense at all...
8
I bet there won't be any increase of tariffs on tv's.
8
Propping up buddies in the fossil fuel industries. One fossil helping another run towards an evolutionary dead end.
8
Whirlpool washers are lousy, as Consumer Reports and owners of Whirlpool washers will attest. All these tariffs do is hurt consumers and make the U.S. look childish. If the American products were any good, they would be competitive. Bad move.
5
Try Speed Queen. Solid as a rock and American made.
A transparent nod to the fossil fuel industry, and the Koch Brothers.
11
Too bad for the protectionists but the cat’s out of the bag. China’s domestic consumers are now the market of opportunity. China can slap a counter-tariff on airplanes imported from the USA without batting an eye.
1
China has many restrictions on American imports that we don't have on them. If you want to sell to China, they are going to pressure you into opening a factory there, and if you want to open a factory, you have to share your trade secrets with them.
Meanwhile I've been hearing for forty years how we are opening up a huge market in China, but it is we who have been opened up, by American politicians under the tutelage of Henry Kissinger, as we have been running trade deficits with China for decades.
Under the economic theories advanced by free trade advocates, Chinese trade surpluses are supposed to raise the price of their currency, balancing out the trade, but this has never happened. Even with their supposed loosening of their currency, they are still running huge surpluses and stealing market share from our businesses. But this is good for global borrowings like Wal-Mart and Apple (and Trump Inc) so political donations favor capitulation.
Both corporate parties have been complicit in this give away to the Chinese, with the Democrats throwing unions under the bus to act more like Republicans. This is the opening they gave to a demagogue white supremacist, while Clinton called the TPP, (which gave more power to global corporations to overrule the rights of U.S. workers and consumers) the "gold standard for future trade deals."
Put American workers first, and the rest will work itself out.
1
"Whirlpool’s chairman, Jeff M. Fettig, called the decision 'a victory for American workers and consumers alike.'"
How is it a victory for American consumers if they will have to pay more?
I will also point out that Whirlpool washers generally are not found on lists of best washers. They generally are LG, Samsung, Kenmore, Electrolux, and Maytag. So, maybe Whirlpool needs to look at its products.
6
What's the point of paying less, if you lost your job? Free trade advocates keep saying how great it is that we can buy cheap junk from China, but with inflation eating most worker raises, that is not really panning out.
I will grant you that there is a problem with the quality of many American products, but that is a function of the demand by shareholders for huge quarterly profits at the expense of the long term health of their businesses. Getting clobbered by foreign competitors is not changing that dynamic, which is a product of our penny wise, pound foolish culture. Quality takes time and money. We should be looking to Germany as a model, because they make decent profits paying decent wages with excellent benefits, selling high quality products. Looking to the Asian model is not helping the American worker who is also the consumer.
1
I'm not sure that you can say LG and Samsung products are cheap. Take a look at their prices and compare them to others.
But, as you point out in your post, there is a problem with many American businesses and shareholders being more concerned by short term profits over long-term health of their companies. I think that problem will be exacerbated by tariffs. They will have absolutely no incentive to improve their products.
I would hope, also, that they look at the German model, but I'm not holding my breath.
I just wanted to point out that since I posted this, I saw that Maytag is owned by Whirlpool. So, I guess one of the brands it owns is actually decent. But they need to make improvements in the others.
I recall the coal miners recent turn down of retraining for solar and other jobs because they trust Trump to "bring back coal's dominance". Short sighted on their part and I suspect it will hit home soon.
Trump is a stooge, nothing more.
11
Yes, Trump is a global billionaire who outsources his clothing lines to low wage countries. His giant tax breaks for global correlations and real estate will directly benefit him at the expense of workers.
This is probably just a lame bid to mollify his base.
1
Let's hope that this trade action goes better for Whirpool than Boeing's attack on the import of Bombardier's CS series airliners, which so far has backfired and helped Boeing's European competitor, Airbus.
Who knew that a trade war was so complicated?
5
Nothing is as it was before globalization, now ‘firms’ are themselves products and will relocated as needed to maintain markets. Their products are themselves components of ‘parts’ flowing from a wide range of suppliers and the ‘country’ is the final assembler. Surely this is true of Whirlpool as well.
It is too late in coming between 2008 and 2015; the USA lost over 6 million manufacturing jobs. The manufacturing sector will not return under any conditions. Already one of Foxconn’s factories operates on a 24-hour basis without any workers at all, the producer of Apple and other electronics.
There are unfair practices, by WTO standards, that should be confronted to lever the field and Trump’s trade people should be confronting them, but using Tariffs is not the trick they seem to be following – a very slippery slope. For fun read Factory Man: How One Furniture Maker Battled Offshoring, Stayed Local - and Helped Save an American Town, an early battler who won using WTO guidelines by Beth Macy.
You can't have it both ways.
Yes but we don't have to continue down this long dark road of unilateral disarmament.
Solar panels? Seems like an order directly from the fossil fuel industry that Trump favors; Hope no one needs a new washer any time soon.
7
Wouldn't making solar panels here make it far more politically popular than installing Chinese solar panels?
Either manufactures would be hurt or installers. And by the way American panels are higher quality.
American science and innovation gave the world renewable resources and will develope low cost manufacturing to compete with conterfitors . China protects their markets from US penitration why should the US not do the same?
If china protects its market, how is China the largest market for the likes of GM, Cummins, Caterpillar etc
It seemed a bit odd to me that washing machine manufacturing would be one of the first industries to benefit from protectionist tariffs. Then I went to the open secrets political donations site and searched for Whirlpool chairman Jeff Fettig's donations. I found out he has donated tens of thousands of dollars to hundreds of GOP-aligned PAC's and individual Republican politicians. To me, it looks like a textbook example of quid pro quo.
12
don’t know much about business, especially international business but it seems like the only people At a disadvantage are the consumers
1
So Whirlpool, who had some of their clothes dryers and washers, manufactured by Samsung, a competitor, who they now wish to have their imports subject to tariffs? Now that is rich.
Lastly, I have owned appliances made by units of Whirlpool, and have found their quality to be substandard in comparison to their competitors products.
If Whirlpool cannot manufacture quality products and their competitors take advantage of that, then Whirlpool should go the way of other failed companies.
6
Solar panels? Is this really how he plans to save coal jobs?
4
This is terrible policy. Hurt 230,00 American job in solar installation, distribution, and manufacture of ancillary solar equipment in favor of 30,000 American jobs in solar module manufacturing? That’s crazy. But a big win for Big Oil and the fossil fuel industry in general.
I have a better idea: Place bigger export tariffs on military equipment sold to foreign countries, which often get turned against us 5, 10, qt years later?
4
Whirlpool has already eliminated much of the domestic competition in the washing machine business. Now they are going after their foreign competitors. In reality, they should have had the tariffs while GE, Speed Queen, and Maytag were still in the game. It's an unfair playing field because of markedly lower wage rates in South Korea, but try and convince the consumer of that when they are pulling out their Home Depot credit card!
1
I wouldn't own a Whirlpool product if you gave it to me. Quite simply LG and Samsung make superior appliances. You get what you pay for. And those promised jobs from Whirlpool in red states? Hope you find enough qualified workers to build those things, given the high opioid rate in those states. Small wonder the quality is lacking.
Made in America used to be synonymous with quality and innovation. No longer. And BTW, those cheap Chinese imports Americans buy because they're...cheap? Wrong. Not so cheap anymore and of poorer quality. But we have no choice in many instances. They seem to have taken a page out of our book when it comes to manufacturing.
5
Surely you’re not saying that America cannot make good products. This is a step to bring American manufacturing back.
The washing machine tariffs will force Samsung, LG to open factories in US. At least that's the idea.
2
Looks like I will be making a trip to Sears shortly for my coal burning washing machine. The solar powered one didn't work well in my basement anyway.....
2
This smell’s of kowtowing to the oil and natural gas industry. Rex Tillerson is an oil man. This action will make solar energy more expensive. It has nothing to do with saving American jobs. It has everything to do with taking away competition from oil and natural gas.
The Whirlpool action is protection of a poorly made product.
I always try to buy American made products if they are well designed and of good quality. Whirlpool is not a fit for me.
4
The President is concerned about foreign companies stealing our business. I’m concerned about a foreign country stealing our elections. How about the old “buy American “ campaign, presuming the product is equal or superior, which unfortunately they weren’t. In the meantime VOTE AMERICANS!
6
Mh son, who is fluent in Mandarin, works in the Solar Power industry. He has seen this coming for a while. It will put an end to his job and cause a huge set back for Solar Power in general.
4
So wonderful to be kept in the 19th century. Next, Trump will discover that the only 21st century solid waste incinerator in America, a 15 minute drive from Mar-A-Largo, is producing electricity for 44,000 homes 24/7 without using fossil fuel. He will have a heart attack. Even worse may happen when he discovers that the West Palm Beach plant was designed and built by DANISH Babcock & Wilcox.
Shut that plant down, bring back landfills, prevent any further incursions from Denmark and keep the coal fires burning.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Truth declaration: An even more advanced system built by Babcock & Wilcox heats my entire city, Linköping, and also converts all food waste to renewable-energy bio gas to run the city buses fossil-fuel free. No coal here.
8
Better yet, the US could learn from Sweden who is the fourth largest per-capita exporter of arms to the world - just behind Israel, perennially neutral Switzerland and Russia. The US is in sixth position behind The Netherlands.
We can catch up to claim our share of globalism.
1
Trade issues with China and Korea would have been better dealt with had Trump remained in the Trans Pacific Partnership trade deal. This isn't about rectifying the trade problems with those countries. It's about Trump paying back his donors by killing solar energy (a huge job provider), and giving a freebie to American Washer/Dryer manufacturers.
7
Great environmental policy. Reduce demand by denying responsibility for global warming, and reduce supply by taxing imported solar panels. Luckily we still have a few lumps of coal and drops of oil left in the ground for his voters to plunder.
5
The US is now my enemy, trying to deprive me of all the good things China has provided to Me. My clothes, My phone, computer, TV, Car, in fact everything I own and all far better than anything ever made here.
China, thank You for all you have done for me and everyone else in this World.
If I were interested in the Arms and machinery of Death, I would buy American.
3
Remember Solyndra, the American company the Chinese targeted and bankrupted. Republicans were enraged that our government wasted 500mil on subsidies for American solar. Now they are concerned? Trump don’t care about solar or American jobs, this is about fossil fuels, period.
4
Not too sure about solar panels, but we have bought washing machines and the imports are so superior from a feature / function point of view that choosing a US manufactured one made zero sense.
Now if Trump could only build a wall to keep robots out of America's industrial heartland, then his non-college-educated voters would actually have a chance to make a living.
3
Does he even realize the amount of toxic waste making these things create? Does he even care? The Trump admin action is an environmental nightmare.
3
Here we go again with President Trump talking out of two sides of his mouth again. How about we put a 20% tariff on all the imports we bring into this country from the countries where he makes all his clothing. Seems like make America great doesn't apply to him and his family where he gets to make his clothing in Asia where labor rates are lower. Put your money where your mouth is Mr. President. This double standard is tiresome already.
3
I think we're witnessing the death of liberalism. It's been happening for years now, but it took Trump to pronounce it dead. Global capitalism set the stage. Instead of opposing it, liberals embraced it. Many American workers lost their jobs as a result, but liberalism had no answers. The only thing they offered was food stamps and drug programs for the "deplorables," whom they basically had contempt for. Trump spoke to the forgotten ones and struck a chord with them. The sleeping giant of populism has woken up, but the liberals still don't have a clue. They still don't know it, but they're on the wrong side of history. Its long "arc" has ended alright, but in a place they never expected.
2
It's a little early to declare victory.
1
I'm confused. The referenced report does say costs decreased 70% since 2010. But a decrease of $7.50 to $1 (not in the refenece) would be over 86%.
1
Makes sense. Folks made rich by the gas and oil industries will get even richer. The clothes the emperor wears are marked "Dry Clean Only".
Oh well, at least he'll have something to crow about in his Davos closing remarks...
1
Impose the superstitions of the base against the advice of the knowledgeable and the will of the majority. The GOP big donor propaganda machine has become the Terminator of Democracy.
Trump's concern about American workers is a sham that fooled everyone. If he really cared about workers, why did he and his minions in Congress try to take away workers health?
The idea of reinforcing American Manufacturing is something I pushed for here many years back. The idea spread. I feel it's more important to innovate designs and manufacturing processes to lower cost. Merely slapping tariffs on imports is lazy minded. You can't protect an inefficient manufacturer here and expect him to grow with exports. Innovation is the key to success. You can't just protect manufacturers. You have to incentivise investments in education, research and development, and most importantly, on-the-job training for workers. I lost count of how many times I read companies couldn't find trained workers. What the heck are they thinking, if at all. Maybe spend less time on satisfying Wall Street and shareholders because after all, that's who promoted the exodus of manufacturing for decades in the first place.
Look, let's get real America; you can't protect Detroit that makes big gas guzzlers from those itty bitty car companies. The world wants small cars. Staying with marketing driven manufacturing produced big cars and trucks and the foreign companies moved right in on American soil to fill the need for efficiency.
Solar is the future. Trump is not. You bean counters just don't get it.
Take a lesson from Henry Ford. Make model T's. Engineers should be running corporations.
4
Kevin Philips wrote a very prescient book published in 2006 - eons ago in a country infatuated with reality TV and celebrity, I might add. The title is: "American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century." I should read it again. But as Timothy Snyder wrote in "Tyranny: Twenty Lessons From the Twentieth Century" in lesson 9 "Divorce your self from the internet and read more books." I opted for fiction.
Not only are we propping up communist China with its oppressive governement and sinister plans for Asian and world domination via allowing them to take our jobs through currency manipulation, WTO membership despite massive rules violations, and massive theft of our most valuable resource, intellectual property, we are educating their engnieers and scientists at our universities at the expense of American engineers (I was rejected from a degree in Electrical Engineering because my university, UW-Madison, had the largest number of Chinese engineering students in the country, over 2000 when I was there, and the GPA requirmeent to get in was about 3.8/4.0 in pre-engineering coursework as a result of that demand. I had a 3.5). Can you imagine that: A tax paying American rejected by its own state in order to educate a large group of immigrant Chinese, many of whom could barely speak English, so that they could go back home and steal all of our IP, manipulate their currency to illegally attract our manufacturers, and build a navy with our tech to illegally dominate the high seas with illegal islands, etc etc etc. I could not believe that we were selling out our country to them in the 80's, and I can't believe we are doing it now. I am a Sanders supporter, but this issue about China is something Trump and he agreed on. What the heck were we thinking? China is the biggest threat not only to our jobs but to a free world in general. Put up trade barriers, divest. It was never worth it.
1
No policy from this White House or the Republican led congress appears to include thought into the long term ramifications but instead seems to be connected to a bad campaign promise or to pander to Trump's base. Worse yet, the impact from these knee jerk decisions will really be felt long after Trump is gone, much like the tax bill which added over a trillion dollars to the deficit. And not a word from the deficit hawks.
2
Never did I think I'd wish for ANYONE to be as smart as George W Bush. Thanks to the GOP, we've now set the bar even lower.
5
A stock market hitting new highs coupled with trade protectionism . . .what could go wrong? (hint: 1929)
2
This is a policy that is going to play well with working class citizens.
If the US government cared about citizens it could easily prevent outsourcing and offshoring.
Just create a rule that says a company that outsources / offshores will be ineligible for government contracts.
Easy.
It is sad that it takes a man like Trump, a cretin, to actually help citizens.
1
And all the 60 year old ex coal miners in West Virginia can rush off to become electronics technicians in all the solar-panel factories that will spring up in Wheeling and Flat Rock. Great idea... No more unemployed buggy-whip workers.
1
The seemingly unasked is where are domestic manufacturers getting their parts? Has Whirlpool for instance outsourced parts making i.e. importing psrts?
1
So if an foreign business moves here and sets up their manufacturing here, are they still considered an import? Many foreign car manufacturers have been doing that very thing. That seems to be the work-around solution.
1
It improves American manufacturing. So that’s a desirable solution
The only good reason for a tariff is if a foreign government is supporting below cost sales to drive other countries' out of the business so they have a monopoly. Example: steel in the US.
1
Solar-cell tariffs are as much about shielding power companies and their fossil-fuel suppliers from domestic competition than it is about protecting U.S. manufacturers from foreign suppliers.
4
Whirlpool needs more than tariffs; it needs to build decent washing machines. Not a single Whirlpool washer is "recommended" by Consumer Reports, and some of them are among the lowest rated of the machines the organization has tested.
8
It is hard to understand why an American would not want to buy Whirlpool products. They make quality washing machines and dishwashers and will last for about 17 years or more. Why send our money to South Korea, when we can make very good appliances here by an American company. Do you really think someone in South Korea would ever buy an American product ? No, they are too loyal to their own companies. Why can't Americans be loyal and not be influenced by advertising, glitzy electronic panels, and the latest ratings by Consumer Reports which might show a marginally higher rating by the Korean companies on some products. Just turn the USA made washer on, put the Tide in , and load it up with clothes. It is pretty simple.
4
because they don't want to pay $200.00 more.
1
I am loyal. I've kept my American made washer dryer pair so long I have to beg them to finish a load. But, my next pair, which will also be American, may not be Whirlpool because, frankly, I don't know where you're getting that 17 years from. My old tanks happen to be Whirlpools that have lasted twenty years only because I can get parts (for the old agitator type models) and fix them myself. My friends, who have bought new, fancier Whirlpool models have tossed them, generally in favor of Korean machines, or, if they could afford the steep price, German machines.
In fairness to imports, our importing of foreign cars was the only thing that shoved our complacent manufacturers into improving their cars to the excellent products they've become. I still remember talking with colleagues in the eighties about whether to buy foreign cars or stick to good ole American. I stuck with good ole American and enjoyed visiting my local auto mechanic every other week. Kept him in business though, so I guess that was good.
It's always a balance, but if my own country is going to sell me garbage and expect me to like it or pay twice as much, I'm not going to be a happy camper. I appreciate excellence, and I expect it from us.
1
I agree but Americans are greedy. It is our whole culture. For greed we will cut off our nose to spite our face. To me the most dangerous part is polluting our environment for a fast buck.
1
Tariffs are not good for the American consumer. Drive up prices and lead to poorer quality products.
2
In 2007 I bought a new Honda Civic. I did because my previous experience with Honda products told me it would last a long time. So far 214,000 miles of only routine maintenance. At the time of purchase I looked at Chrysler,GM, and Ford cars in the same class and also checked Consumer Reports. The Honda was and still rated the top car in terms of reliability. Trump eventually will get around to put tariffs on autos but I will still go with quality despite the price.
8
Honda cars are built in Ohio.
1
We make Hondas here in Ohio with American workers making a living wage and putting that money back into the community.
1
Are you sure your Honda Civic was not assembled in the USA???
Imports supplied 80% of the U.S. market for solar panels last year. That demand is not going to be filled overnight by U.S. suppliers. For many years solar was either DIY or driven by a small number of self-trained installers. The necessary elements for sustained growth in solar are now all in place: competitive prices, professional development to support an expanding workforce, and the capability to seamlessly incorporate grid-tied residential solar installations.
The industry is experiencing explosive growth. These tariffs may help a few American manufacturers, but on net they hamper a growing source of jobs and delay our clean energy future.
9
To say there is a split in the solar industry on this move is simply WRONG. Two companies advocated for this tariff while the Solar Energy Industries Association, representing thousands of companies in every state vehemently opposed this. Credible estimates say this could be a MASSIVE JOB KILLER - > 85,000 - and fits with larger strategy of Trump and his patrons to undercut renewables while continuing to subsidize oil and gas at >$20 billion/year.
12
The small portion of our nation which is engaged making washing machines and solar panels will be enriched at the expense of the rest of the nation as solar panel and washing machine prices rise substantially.
If Democrats did not hate Trump so much, they would be praising him for these tariffs as they are classic Democrat policies. But these tariffs are detrimental to both Americans and the people in the foreign countries who export products to the US. Free trade is beneficial to all.
4
Bill Clinton signed the biggest free trade treaties of the last 50 years. Trump is the most protectionist president since at least ww2. If you didn't hate Dems so much you would check your facts. Parties evolve. Republicans have evolved into a protectionist, isolationist and xenophobic party.
Democrats are very aware of the increasing ravages of climate change, and understand the urgent need to replace the sunset industries of fossil fuels with renewables. This tax will retard what is now a healthy solar industry in America. But then, that is the point isn't it?
2
Free Trade is not trade that is subsidized by the government at the point of manufacture. 25 years ago the domestic telephone equipment manufacturing industry was wiped out by Japanese and South Korean subsidized products. American plants that were over 100 years old were shut down and tens of thousands of American jobs were lost. Much too late the federal government after years of investigation found that American manufacturers' claims of "low balling" were true and extreme tariffs were placed on Gold Star, Samsung, Panasonic, Toshiba and others. Their products were impounded pending payment of the tariffs with more than a few abandoning the market because they couldn't compete under a truly "free market". By that time Western Electric and Stromberg Carlsen the two biggest manufacturers of business telephone equipment were gone.
Subsidized Chinese solar products wiped out the solar manufacturing companies in the US two of which were started with US loans which were defaulted on to the detriment of US taxpayers.
25 years ago, even being on a tight budget,
we bought a Swedish washing machine that costs almost 2 X as much as an american model. It used about a quarter of the detergent, way way less energy, and less than a quarter of the water.
It had custom cycles that ranged from wool to boil (my dry cleaning bills evaporated)
It paid for itself ten times over
And the clothes came OUT SO CLEAN
It only recently gave up - and we replaced it right away with the same brand.
If an american manufacturer made a product as good, I would have bought that one.
Instead of taxing my swedish washer, we should be encouraging innovation and conservation, two terms that seem antithetical to this administration.
43
25 yrs is a long time, and technology and manufacturing quality changes among brands; so it probably pays to shop. That said, my washer & drier are 12 yrs old and the basic, inexpensive bargain brand then manufactured by Whirlpool. They have always gotten the clothes clean and dry, have never needed repairs and are still running strong. Fortunately we have many brands from which to choose, and consumers who believe that a foreign brand of washing machine or automobile is necessarily better or require such as a status symbol are still free to pay a premium price.
1
So absolutely agree! I have a Whirlpool and it has been nothing but trouble from day 1 but I cannot justify getting a new set until it completely dies because that is so wasteful. I've been eyeballing LG, Asko and Paykel which were already pricy but now? So stupid because these imported machines use less water and energy and clean so well. But hey, Trump needed to check that box about imports off so this is what counts, right? It would make more sense to improve the quality of the American industrial output.
1
I guess it all comes out in the wash...
I use a modern whirlpool at my summer rental on cape cod.
Respectfully, there is no comparison between Asko and Whirlpool.
1
Tariffs on solar panel imports not only damages a healthy thriving industry, will lead to major layoffs, but continues the suicidal efforts to continue P45's efforts to support and promote fossil fuels, the driver of climate catastrophe. I could not be more upset- or can I?
23
If Whirlpool wants to be more competitive with Samsung and LG, they should try reading Consumer's Report. My most recent large appliance purchases (refrigerator and washing machine) were based on the ratings by Consumer's Reports. Whirlpool needs to improve their quality if they want to be competitive. American manufacturers cannot rely on flag-waving if they want to stay competitive. Even with increased prices due to the tariff, I will go with quality products.
53
All these tariffs will do is dramatically increase the prices for the newest technology in appliances and solar panels. It won't make U.S. products more competitive because the producers simply aren't interested in providing the latest and greatest technologies. So we gain $20 a week in lower taxes but pay hundreds or thousands more for what we buy. As usual, Trump is out of touch. He simply doesn't get what it's like to live in this economy.
28
Maybe we should be leading the world in solar panel technology instead of China and instead of supporting coal in our own country. Then maybe we wouldn't need solar tariffs.
41
Well, Trump promised that our coal can be washed to make it clean, thus, the support for another industry whose best days are behind it.
1
Absolutely. Trump has spoken against wind and solar since he was a candidate. He actually said he was against wind farms because the killed birds and looked like a "junkyard." He is giving away the future to China.
1
In theory, limited protectionism can work if done right.
Western democracies/areas like Japan, Canada, Europe are basically not the problem, ie they do not have slave labor. Arguments with these countries usually involved a specific industry that we have a dispute with.
The real problems are the developing countries like China, India, Vietnam, Mexico etc. that have slave labor. We cannot compete with them and limited non onerous tariffs are the way to go to give American workers a chance to compete.
It looks like Trump is doing politics here. He is not following the general rules above and playing favorites with his coal and gas buddies over solar.
If he really wants to follow the rules above, have he and Ivanka bring back their factories from slave labor countries like India.
7
If Trump really wants to help the solar industry he can put tax incentives back in place so that more people can afford solar installation and purchase American made products. All these tariffs do is increase the cost of solar installations and helps his buddies in the oil and gas industry.
It's been proven that tariff alone really do not help the economy. There has to be real incentives for US companies to stop outsourcing and build products in the US. Let's see if all these tax breaks to big corporations really creates any significant job growth. My guess it won't and BTW it's US companies that set up factories in foreign countries to build those washing machines.
21
VMG:
Your contempt for Trump has propelled to accept falsehood as truth. Contrary to your assertion, tax incentives for grossly inefficient home solar systems were NOT eliminated. The tax incentives should be eliminated since any support should be for utility scale solar or wind generation due to the simple fact that it cost about half as much to generate and deliver each kwh of electricity in a utility scale system as in a home scale system.
Through tax, trade and subsidy (direct and indirect government purchases) policies, every nation protects its most valuable industries. The more Trump claims something, the less accurate he is. The great negotiator couldn't persuade a South Korean seller, whose country we protect with thousands of troops spending money, not to so severely undercut American manufacturers of solar panels ? Who did Trump send to negotiate, Stephen Miller ?
11
As long as we continue to run trade deficits and have able bodied people out of work this is the right thing to do. Cheap imports that add to the unemployment and welfare rolls are not really cheap at all. We need the full spectrum of jobs in this country from high tech to low tech to employ the variety of talents we have here at home.
Is the argument really that the American worker must work for third world wages to compete, and that costly environmental protections must be eliminated to compete with emerging nations that will savage the environment to climb out of poverty? I am all for proper environmental protections, as environmental damage or the prevention of that damage should be the cost of production, but this too implicates the ability to have at least a neutral balance of trade.
To the extent that other countries want to keep the balance of trade in their favor that is understandable, but we do not have to continue to acquiesce decade after decade while our ability to manufacture is destroyed -- that, in and of itself, is a national security concern.
Do you think the opioid crises has been driven in part by years of hopeless economic stagnation? Drug use that is a product of systemic economic barriers is not limited to the ghetto. Our job as a nation is to make ourselves as self-sufficient as possible, and to adopt a sustainable path which is not founded upon a presumption of unending consumerism fed by unabated population growth through immigration
7
That argument would hold water if the solar industry in this country didn't provide more jobs than the oil industry. This will decrease the number of jobs, not create more. Furthermore, many will still buy LG appliances, because they are better and provide the features Americans have come to rely on, even with a 20% rise in price.
9
@TOM NY
Sorry to disillusion you buddy but it isn't going to make much difference to the American job picture and could prove a net loss if there is serious retaliation by the countries affected. Americans will however be paying somewhat more for domestic appliances and solar energy installations. But since you want to end consumerism this won't concern you.
4
You raise very good points. But the reality is vastly different. US is only 5% of global market. China and India alone are 1/3 of global market and growing very fast as they become more prosperous. Europe is double the US market. China is the worlds largest exporter and largest trading nation.
China is the largest market for US companies like GM, Boeing, Cummins etc. India is the largest market for the likes of P&G, Colgate and many more. Most of the Forbes 500 US companies make over 50% of their sales from outside the US. So we need the fast growing foreign market for our companies to grow. If we start a trade war we will be hit by tariffs on our exports.
The Achilles heel of capitalism is constant growth. So if the US doesn’t want to be part of the world trade dominated by Asia and Europe we can pull out of WTO and be content to be a declining super power. The days of having our cake and eating it too are over.
Japan is a country not targeting growth at all cost and it has no super power ambitions or a huge military devouring over $700 Billions every year. So their population and their economy is on a two decade decline/stagnation. They are fine with it because they don’t have pretensions of being a super power to protect or a huge military to feed.
Bottom line, trade is a net positive for a country that has only 5% of world market. We isolate ourselves at our own peril.
2
The rich got a huge tax cut. Really huge. So huge the numbers are incomprehensible even for them.
The rest of us just got another huge tax increase. 20% tax hike on washing machines. 30% tax increase on renewable energy production.
Workers and consumers lose out because the solar industry, which currently employs 160,000 Americans - or 100,000 more than coal mining, takes a big hit.
People will purchase fewer washing machines so retailers, delivery supply chain workers, longshoreman, will all take a hit.
And in the end, as happened under Bush, the USA will pay a large fine to the WTO for violating trade agreements.
For those with short memories, or who are perhaps new...Bush slapped a 30% tariff on steel imports. It made everything made with steel more expensive. People who used steel in their products found ways to dramatically cut the use of steel, using more efficient designs or alternative materials. Americans steel, already in decline, declined faster, and we paid a massive fine for trade violations
Bad for everyone.
Protectionism is literally 19th century failed economic policy. Just like coal is filthy 19th century energy. Thanks Republicans.
39
Democrats should be FOR this. Foreign countries like China are allowed to ignore the environmental protections in place which US companies must follow when manufacturing. Yet, when we import goods produced with HORRIBLE environmental records in terms of how their manufacturing waste is treated as well as the humanitarian issues with labor in these factories, we do not penalize them in any way. It's no wonder their products are cheaper, and US companies struggle to compete. Tariffs are a FANTASTIC way to ensure that US companies - which directly reduces US poverty level as US manufacturing increases US jobs - as well as our environmental and humanitarian values, are prioritized.
5
Not sure you understand what trade wars are. Of course we want to protect the environment, but one of the best ways is to go solar. And the American public won't do that if the price of solar soars. At the same time, this president is providing incentive for oil companies The rest of the planet is thinking about Global Climate change and this president places his focus on 2 industries, one of whom could save the world. If you want to protect the environment in other nations, allow them to make the money so they can reach the same luxurious lifestyle we have and thus can make those important decisions, like environmental standards, more easily. We like to be so judgemental on "other countries" but take a look around you, we have quite a few Superfund sites.
13
Slow down solar due to cost and speed up Fossil Fuel, (Coal), production!
10
Ridiculous, you live in the dark ages, or wish to. Just to provide a rehash of antiquated industry and jobs. Why can't these laid off Miners educated themselves and do something else, other people do...I did when I was 42. The only thing stopping these individuals is lack of drive.
1
Along with all the “retro” style and looks we now have a very stylish retro government underneath all that old looking type government is a new radical operating system. It resembles the original government but not one piece is the same as the last model. Following modern manufacturing techniques they have managed to create a government without any responsibility to those who need it. What will they think of next?
5
The fossil fuel industry companies are happy with the decision to make solar power more expensive. The american consumers who care about saving energy and money are among the victims of this ill-advised policy.
23
I thought that governments had learned that setting up prohibitive tariffs was a desperate temporary fix that created severe problems down the line.
That's the way to fight global warming! Make it difficult to afford solar power. I am waiting to see what he will do if the next big hurricane lands in Palm Beach.
19
A fair balanced to the playing field is appropriate and I'd like to see more of it. I'm willing to pay extra is it means an American made product and a job for American citizens.
13
Well isn't that the crux of a great social question. For 50 years Americans have been eating at the trough of cheap stuff from mostly Asia and particularly
China, driven by the iron hand of our own greed and market forces (AKA capitalism). When is it time to realize that there is a price for a clean environment, quality education, healthcare, public transportation, and, yes, American-made washing machines?
10
Long ago the auto industry sought routinely to be protected. The regulators found there was no such thing as an "American made" car. Some might be assembled in the US, but the parts come from all over the world. So the auto industry went through a dramatic near-death experience that it relives from time-to-time. The same will be true of solar cells and washing machines. And Whirlpool will likely buy most of its parts from overseas competitors to assemble inferior machines in the US in order to make the US consumer pay more for less.
3
The problem is, their products are not only less expensive, but are better. You're telling me that you would rather have an inferior product at higher cost just because it was manufactured in America. That type of thinking will get your wallet sinking.
3
Fifty or sixty years ago, manufacturing was a big driver of the U.S. economy and salary growth. Today businesses involved in the innovation of new technologies and products based on these technologies, such as Apple, are the drivers of the economy and salary growth. Innovation as Enrico Moretti says in his book"The Nw Geography of Jobs" is the driver today, not manufacturing. Innovation creates many jobs besides the ones created by the companies involved in innovation. It is folly for the U.S. to try to take on countries that can manufacture better products at lower costs. If we want to compete with China and South Korea, we need to spend money on innovation to develop better engineering techniques for producing washing machines and solar panels, etc. We are becoming "cry babies" resorting to tariffs to compete at the cost of raising prices for those poor Republicans in red states who go to Walmart, Kmart, etc. to buy foreign made products. Isn't it time that we got back to leading the world in innovation, inventing technologies and products that other countries cannot supply and manufacture (yet). The basis of all of this is education, providing organizations and universities with funds, like we used to do, to do research. Instead, the anti-intellectual Republicans, who by the way are killing their red state economies by failing to improve their education systems to attract the kinds of businesses that California and Massachusetts attract.
27
I couldn't agree with you more except your argument, without considering "poor Red-state Republicans who go to Walmart and Kmart to buy cheap foreign-made stuff", has delivered Donald Trump to the White House which has only exasperated a problem of middle America disenfranchisemen and is now slowly leading to a 2nd Civil War. Innovation has driven the economy for half a century, if not half a millennia. When will compassion do the same? Liberals, like myself, demand compassion for a long list of those who have suffered discrimination. What about for an angry and wounded laid off steel worker.
Here come the trade wars. Midwest farmers, you will be one of the first to feel the effects. Get back to us soon on how Trump is MAGA.
10
For most of the USA above the Mason Dixon line, using solar to produce electricity is not practical. The proper use of solar is to heat domestic hot water directly. This requires only simple inexpensive panels and requires little expertise to install. American manufacturers such as Lennox had simple packages that worked more than 25 years ago. Inexpensive natural gas limited its sales. I now believe this type of panels are only manufactured in Canada.
Speak for yourself! I installed solar panels on my (very small) New England home 2 years ago and have consistently produced 70% of the power I use to both light and cool my home since that time. I've seen a significant number of solar panels installed in my area and when I chat with others who've installed them, they are as happy with their panels as I am with mine. While my array does not produce enough for me to be "off-grid" (because my home is small and I couldn't install enough panels on my roof) the significant savings I have experienced in my electric bills, combined with the reasonable price point for the panels and installation have made choosing to install my panels one of the VERY best choices I've ever made for myself and my home! Your post is off the mark - at least based on my own experience and those of my solar-powered neighbors!
28
Completely untrue what you think about solar panels and the practicality of providing electricity in the northern part of the country. Even the utility companies are installing arrays of solar panels in Michigan to generate power. If they were so impractical I doubt that a conservative industry like the utility company would be making an investment in them.
7
Here in Ct on Rt 95 and the Merritt Parkway Mobil appears to have the lock of gas stations. In the last few years they have modernized all of them using solar panels. Someone should ask Tillerson why?
Washing machine tariffs are a great example of punishing innovation and consumer preferences. The Asian companies invested in new electronic features and chose right. They are heading toward smart machines. The American manufacturers made a different choice and lost. But there is always politics to bail you out. Now the bedrock consumer appliance will be more expensive and less attractive and the free market will be gamed again.
19
So, Whirlpool claims there will be lots of jobs in 4 states regarding manufacturing for four years. Then, what? After tariffs ease, then what? Solar power is where America has been aiming, consumers have been buying and we're already behind our allies in that, even country's like China. So, then what? I guess we'll find out. No steps forward. The world races ahead of America and we slip decades behind. But, that makes America great again? We'll see.
27
Then what? Whirlpool will have outdated non competitive products because it was shielded by tariffs instead of having to compete with better products being developed elsewhere. Overall the American consumer gets the worst deal.
1
Both of Trump’s big economic steps, cutting corporate taxes and installing some new tarriffs, offset the losses American companies take by paying their laborers more.
Trump is betting that the U.S. still has enough unilateral clout to have things “our way” without much international support.
It could be true, but for a man who never seems to think beyond his own personal needs, I wonder if he has even considered what the future of the American economy will look like 10-20 years from now. If so, he certainly has not expressed a clear vision.
12
He couldn’t care less. The only future he cares about is his and maybe his families’.
1
Solar panels are made of polysilicon. Back in 2004 and 2005, China recruited solar production experts from the US. Workers offered multi-year million dollar contracts took those jobs to help China get their own polysilicon industry off the ground. There was no way that American manufacturers could have offered similar deals to keep local talent. We have been seeing the results of those actions for a decade now, with declining American production and reduced competition.
8
Remember the middle class "tax cuts" from 2017? Now if you buy these items from other countries, they're gone.
17
Okay, middle class, there go your tax cuts with the stoke of pen. Trump's tariff wars are going to drive up prices all over the market place for average Americans. They may create a few jobs, and may increase profits for the very wealthy, but they aren't going to help you buy that new washer/dryer, and pay your electric bill.
43
Trump and his advisers seem not to understand how everything is interconnected, how those coal miners who may have employment for a couple of years will not be able to afford a washing machine, let alone the cost of medical care to try to mitigate the health side effects of that very job.
Or how small businesses which depend on imports in order to be viable will suffer and perhaps fail.
And they seem not to notice that consumers in other countries have discretionary income too, and they are under no obligation to buy American.
But hey, Trump will be able to say that he kept a promise, notwithstanding the chaos and misery he will leave in his wake. I wonder when his supporters will be tired of winning.
38
Like US corporations don’t move their manufacturing around the world? And oh, I didn’t buy a Samsung washer and dryer because they were cheaper. I bought them because they had innovative features and high long term reliability grades not found on the whirlpool washing machine I was replacing. That machine died after two years, the circuit board took four months to get, and then it still was unfixable.
42
really? which US solar panel manufacturer moved to China?
China is dumping. Dems da facts.
1
For global powers like the US, trade can be defined as continuation of war by other means.
The question is: Is the American economy in a dominant position to win a global trade war?
18
We need fair trade, not free trade. China and Korea, just to mention two, engage in predatory trade practices. Their governments engage in a host of practices to subsidize their manufacturers and sell products in the US at a loss- prices no American manufacturer can compete with. At the same time, at home, they create numerous hurdles, regulations and demands which severely limit the ability of many US firms to import goods to their countries. Unfortunately, fair trade will to some extent raise prices for US consumers. I feel that's a necessary trade-off to keep American manufacturing jobs alive.
11
Well our agriculture products are heavily subsidized by the US and heavily exported. Expect pressure to return on that if we move forward. this is not so cut and dry.
8
And, the US does not engage in predatory trade practices?
So much for the vaunted free market forces American corporations are always on about. Certain markets, like washers, are very expensive & hard to break into because oligopolistic price fixing. That sound is Adam Smith spinning in his grave.
Get ready to pay more for your electric goods - an outcome that many of Trump's blue collar voters will suffer from most. What happened to the open market, the free hand of the market that the US has purportedly promoted globally for so long? Protectionism here we come...stand back and watch out for clear responses from those countries affected by this populist reaction.
28
Clearly, the powers that be do not know what they are doing.
Wall Street and Financial organizations promoted the exodus of American manufacturing over many decades to cut costs to be "Competitive".
Bean counters are ruining our economy. We need innovative Engineers running Corporations. Until you reduce costs of designs and manufacturing under the helm of qualified Engineers, you will never compete with a world that does. You will never be able to export products until you compete on manufacturing efficiences and innovative new products. You can't compete against international innovation with older technology.
It's all bean counters now expecting new profits from old technology.
Trump is a bean counter that represents bean counters expecting profits to grow on a tree.
Let Engineers driver business.
32
China stole the solar technology the way they have also stolen American technology and formulas for production of steel and other metals, then with state subsidies, now produce these technological advancements cheaper than American labor. Under these circumstances, it is difficult to calculate the loss to America by looking only at trade imbalance. We desperately need to secure America from cyber theft. I hope these tariffs will be used for just this, then, we've done something good.
9
Your comments indicate that you seem to believe that only Americans are capable of developing new technologies, processes and products. This is simply not true, nor has it ever been. Americans are not exceptional; it’s form of government was exceptional when it was created, but Americans themselves are not.
What boggles my mind is how oblivious Americans have been to believe that others around the world are every bit as intelligent, creative and capable as Americans. China didn’t “steal” everything it does from America. It simply started doing it better and for less cost than America. It’s that simple. The American middle class starts to wake up and realize that manufacturing in America will never return to its previous glory so long as they expect to be paid more than overseas labor and robots.
Trump has been selling people a fantasy in which they are foolish to believe, and which He is incapable of delivering. Welcome to the great American disaster in the making, brought to you by Donald J. Trump, the great American con artist.
Stole technology? I guess the Japanese stole the car invention as well. What about the light bulb. Who stole that from whom? And the mouse trap. Surely that’s a robbery too!!
My comment did not indicate what you say at all or I would have said it directly. Where in my comment did I say China steals everything it does from America? Or that only Americans are innovators? Read it. Your comment reflects your own bias and defensiveness.
The cyber theft by the Chinese of U.S. Steel has been verified and documented. It sells steel products that have the identical formulaic constructions of US Steel products. Coincidence?
Until recently, I lived in Shanghai for 17 years and I have a corresponding registered company with it's articles of incorporation registered there. The statements that I sometimes make about China are based on my significant experience, education, knowledge, and connections with this country. I don't consider myself to be a Chinese expert but I'm no high school flunky coal miner from Trump's base who harbors paranoid views of the Middle Kingdom and believes that Trump will wrestle the manufacturing sector back from the Chinese and return it to America. I am not a apologist for Chinese.
Chinese success is based on having no intellectual property rights guarantees, protections and legal enforcement, no environmental protection laws that would ramp up operational costs, cheap labor, state subsidies, and no rule of law. China also does not consider cyber theft to be a crime.
1
China is improving the effectiveness and the cost of solar technology, while America is advancing fossil fuel options. China already has a booming worldwide market that will see little competition from a trade-protected American industry, while the world-wide market for coal and oil can only continue to dwindle. Americans will be saddled both with the additional costs of solar panels, and with an extension of the collateral costs of fossil fuel utilization. How will this end?
82
With more jobs for Americans.
In many states the installations of solar panels have reduced the need for peak electrical power that otherwise is met by polluting fossil fuel turbines that are expensive to operate. These turbines also use excessive water for cooling. Many of the solar systems are installed directly at the point of use - the consumers’ homes and factory roof tops. When new residential developments need power solar reduces the necessity of installing more wires, poles and substations. This avoided equipment installations reduce capital expenses for utilities saving money for consumers. Solar has its own drawbacks such as intermittency and occasional excess generation causing grid instability; but that can be managed by energy storage, another emerging industry in the US. Overall the benefits of low–cost solar far outweigh the down side of solar.
The solar photovoltaic manufacturing is highly automated and creates relatively low number of high-paying jobs. On the other hand, solar installations have created many living wage jobs for several thousands and also many middle income jobs. By imposing tariff on solar, Trump has ignored the ripple effect on electricity prices, pollution, rising unemployment in a growing and decent wage paying solar industry. The gains are myopic and short lived. Trump’s action on solar is emblematic of his acting and talking for short term gains, and without thinking through the consequences.
80
"The president’s action makes clear again that the Trump administration will always defend American workers" and at the cost of American consumers who will end up paying more for goods with tariffs.
24
And American workers are also American consumers. It’s a lose, lose situation.
1
As an Ohioan where Whirlpool manufactures it's appliances I support a tariff that will support local manufacturing. In Germany Germans buy German-made almost everything including large and small appliances. In South Korea, home to Samsung I really doubt I'll find a Whirlpool washing machine or much of anything American. There are still large obstacles to American manufacturers entering the Korean market. Why should the US not have equal reciprocity with a country that is free to enter our substantial market? Other countries are still protecting their local industries, why shouldn't we?
26
According to Whirlpool's website, they actually manufacture and sell their products all over the world, on all continents except Africa (that's curious). There just happens to be a higher concentration of factories in Ohio specifically in the North American sector.
http://www.whirlpoolcorp.com/global-locations/
I assume that the products manufactured in each country are sold in the same region to escape any tarif / tax issues. I also assume that overall international profits are possibly subsidizing manufacturing in Ohio, making the international reach of Whirlpool quite important to Ohioans. Protectionist measures are usually not helpful as they more often than not have unforeseen aftereffects.
51
It’s sad to say but it’s the quality that people are willing to pay for - and service. Like cars, many American products lack quality and replacement parts. The typical electronics replacement costs $800 - almost the price of a machine. I expect that the price of American products will increase. Solar panels are another story - this is Trump’s war on alternative energy. Unfortunately his fly in visits to the west do not show that solar farms and alternative energy make up at least 20% of the power grid. The little man will suffer. Note that TVs were not included.
13
In Germany and the rest of Europe, people buy German made goods because they are high quality and relatively cheap.
Whirlpool do sell over here but are basically not as well-made and not as reliable.
Make better products and people will buy them.
13
Australia signed a Free Trade agreement with the U.S in 2005. Since then and including the TPP (which was supposed to open up free trade and cut tariffs, but was actually a Gimme written by and for American Corporations and Business), America has limited Australian imports of Beef, Sugar & Bananas (to name a few) by either putting limits on imports and charging prohibitive tariffs on these products to protect inefficient American producers.
So much for American belief and promotion of free trade when they limit market access even on so called Free Trade Agreements which often only go one way to their favor when a country like Australia obeys and follows the rules that America will, without hesitation break if it does not favor them.
25
Who owns the bulk of US debt?
What happens to US exports, especially agriculture, if trade wars develop?
What will happen to US influence around the world if we back out of trade agreements and/or impose tariffs?
What are the unintended consequences and, really, how many US jobs will be created/saved?
I fear for our future.
25
Good points. Actually we own most of our debt - US savers, institutions the fed holds some of the debt on its balance sheet. In the short term bond holders have few retaliatory options that aren’t self destructive. But we could end up in a trade war.
8
My twenty-seven year-old nephew and his friend started a solar panel installation business late last year. He struggled in school and got his GED rather than attend classes. My teenage son looks up to him and talks about doing an internship next summer. My brother and sister-in-law are so proud.
Business is growing. Now this.
I am heart broken.
85
I wish your nephew, his friend and your son well. Urge them to keep faith in the nation (which is not represented by this administration) as things might change in the near term.
1
The Suniva {63% owned by China's Shunfeng International Clean Energy) and SolarWorld (A German based (currently insolent) company) combined US workforce was less than 2,000 employees at their peak.
This could reduce the US solar work force by almost 90,000 jobs in 2018, and result in a 60 percent drop in solar installations.
Suniva also leaves Saginaw Township, MI, holding the bag for $20,000.00 in received tax credits.
35
Aren't these Tariffs just taxes on Americans???
Why does the GOP want more taxes?
89
Perhaps it has something to do with oil and gas?
Authors are missing the real news regarding solar and energy. forget the washing machines for now.
There are virtually no domestic solar panel manufacturers. This is intended to raise the price of Solar for consumers and businesses - that is what trump wants for the fossil fuel friends. This will protect jobs - in the fossil fuel industry. More destructive backward policy from Trump & friends.
311
Not completely true. There is First Solar (ticker FSLR) that is the world's leading manufacturer of thin film panels. The Chinese do not make these and they are not affected by these imports. Their stock has rallied significantly over the past year partly due to to the coming of these tariffs and it will pop today. The market views these tariffs as positive for First Solar as they will not have to compete against cheap Chinese imports. There is also Sunpower a major US manufacturer who does compete against Chinese imports.
There is a balance to be struck as solar panels are a very important product to be manufactured domestically. We do not want to abandon one of the most important products of the future. We also do not want to make going to solar so expensive that it destroys that market. I hope this tariff strikes the right balance. There is no doubt that Chinese companies have been dumping for years - and most of their companies are barely profitable. But they are propped up by the Chinese government.
Bruce, you're spot on. The U.S. solar panel manufacturers will increase their prices to just below that of their offshore competitors but Trump will then impose a limit on imports or increase the tarrif (again) and ........
But for Handler Miller that's a long way off. At the moment he's focused on shoring up the base and surviving the mid-terms.
Trump is doing everything he can to squash solar power so that his coal buddies can stay in business a little longer. After all, he promised to save coal and the environmental damage of coal mining and burning is all just a Chinese Hoax.
Let the trade wars begin. Let Americans pay the tariffs so that the president can claim to reduce imports. Let environmental protections fall by the wayside so that a few more black lung diseased coal miners can crawl to work for a few more years.
122
Installed solar is roughly 3.50/watt. panels are roughly $0.80/watt, or a quarter of the install price. Jacking-up that $0.80/watt by 30% isn't the end of the world. A much bigger hit took place a few years ago when the CalFire setbacks (walking paths to remain on roofs) went national; that was an expensive hit to solar...
2
unfortunately american made doesnt equate good quality
35
U.S. consumers should be wary because Whirlpool Products can be deadly. In Britian they cause three times as many property fires as the next most dangerous brand.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/24/whirlpool-named-worst-of...
I thought republicans believe in the free market
49
Trump's base doesn't and that's what matters - to Trump.
New York has used this approach for decades on cigarettes, but all it's done is to stimulate smuggling from Southern states.
Sometimes tariffs are called "taxes," and sometimes the government cites "health" or "environmental" reasons for them, but they're protectionist tariffs no matter what the label or the "reason:" consumer prices go up, and smugglers proliferate.
12
Might it be slight more difficult to smuggle a big washing machine across the southern border (even without the wall) into the US than a pack of cigs from South Carolina to NYC?
By the way, it's only smuggling if it cross national border. Otherwise its called price arbitrage.
When will trump and his family bring all their businesses back to the US? Don't hold your breath.
71
"When will trump and his family bring all their businesses back to the US? Don't hold your breath."
Right after he releases his income tax returns.
1
The single worst thing one can do is to give domestic manufacturers a pass to make money by making inferior products.
392
Agree! I would cheerfully purchase a USA made washer if the quality was half as good for the same price. Unfortunately the USA products had low user ratings and low reliability ratings.
Panels by US manufacturers like First Solar and Sunpower are recognized as some of the highest quality in the world.
This is a payback to fossil fuel Trump supporters...nothing less... While were at it let's slap tariffs on TV Screens and the huge percentage of cheap electronics we import and buy from Asia everyday.
50
Let's slap steep tariffs on expensive ties made in China while we're at it as well!
1
Ask any economist; trade barriers only drive up prices and reduce consumer choices
Shame on Whirlpool. You can’t make the best product so you go crying to the white house
62
Exactly what I have been thinking and saying, Paul.
1
Trump's juvenile destructive stupidity becomes clearer by the day.
His dislike of non-white people, world over, is being reflected in actions like this Tariff under the guise of Make America Great Again (a dog whistle to haters of non-white people).
He's being influenced daily by the like like of Stephen Miller (a Jeff Session's protégé) and a private line for Steve Bannon. Gen. Kelly's role is unclear now.
If he starts a war, this 5-time draft dodger should go to the front line!
He is unqualified to be the Commander-in-Chief!
30
While I'm not happy about the solar tariff, it bears pointing out that the cost of solar has been dropping like a rock over the past five years. This increase will be the equivalent of going backwards by about a year.
Residential solar is much more expensive in the US than in other countries, not because of the cost of solar modules, but because of the fragmented and excessive regulatory burdens that we place on it. Germany requires a single page application for a solar install, whereas in the US, you may have to deal with over ten different agencies. Let's fix that while we're about it.
33
Watched Episode 3 of "Victoria" on PBS.
She tried / trying to make everyone use local silk, and there's talk of tariffs on cheaper imported versions.
Great divide, disconnect between those of the 'lower order' (regular folk) and the titled / wealthy -- and of course the royals.
Discontent growing and demonstrations outside the Palace gates.
While viewing, said to my husband ... ironic(?) how things really do just go 'round and 'round in circles ... thinking of of DJT and his 'washing machine and solar panel' tariffs announced today. What's next I wonder (fear)?
And the gaudiness of Mar-A-Lago, and him missing 'his' party this past weekend, which am sure will be rescheduled.
Those who don't study history ...
15
Already softwood lumbar useful for reconstruction after your multiple disasters and newsprint used for small town papers in eastern USA has been hit hard by tariffs.
1
Let them eat cake.
It is quite notable how many claim they
know - they know for a fact - that this will hurt Americans.
Perhaps if their jobs disappeared overseas they might
step away from economic theories that have never been
validated and ask themselves - if everything we buy is
made overseas what will become of America in due time.
25
Perfectly valid question to ask. Over the past century Americans have lost millions of farming jobs to machine automation. Where did all the farmers go, you wonder? Many of them joined other jobs that came up as a result of the increase in productivity, now that they are not needed to grow the crops in order to feed a starving nation. Some went into other manufacturing jobs that were newly invented (in automotive, textile, steel, etc.), while others went into jobs that became necessary as a nation grew richer (accountants, insurances sales man, restauranteurs, guides for tourists now that people have money to spend on leisure, etc.). When those manufacturing jobs start declining (some left for other countries, some became redundant because of improvements in automation), more jobs were created in the tech industries, service industries, and creative arts.
Perhaps if you step away from your distain for economic theory and actually look at the history of American economic evolution in the past 150 years, you'd be more skeptical of the reasons behind these "tariffs", which won't protect any more jobs than those automobile tariffs on Japanese cars saving American auto jobs.
14
A very good question. The height of American industry was after WW2 when most of the industrial world lay in ruins. The manufacturing of the transistor was given the Japanese in the 1950's. By the 1960's German cars and quality electronics came in .Later Japanese cars.And so on ,one industry after another.
My question would be shouldn't the government be giving all the support it can to alternative energy? As the economic decline continues conserving fuel for warships and fighter planes makes sense , as that will be the only influence left .
5
Though obviously American consumers will be directly hurt by having to pay more for goods hit with tariffs.
If American producers want to sell their goods they could always improve their quality or lower their prices.
13
Is the rationale for tariffs on solar panels perceived unfair trade panels or is it a misguided attempt to boost the fossil fuel industry.
260
As Shakespeare's Prince Hal said, "you have hit it."
Absolutely. Of all the products we get from overseas, why focus on solar panels? There's only one reason and we all know what it is. Sadly impeding the growth of solar energy in US will only hurt us in the long run.
1
Trump's silly looking hats, one of which he was shilling from the White House while the government was shut down, are made in China. He should put a 30% tariff on those, especially since he advertises them on taxpayer time.
61
MAGA hats are not made in China - it would help for you to do your research - even Snopes, which has no love for the Trump administration, confirms this and points out that some third parties get them from China because it's easy to get someone in China to make them.
As for other businesses - it's not a sin to have a business make things in China if the laws and costs are such that you're left with no choice if you want to compete - at least you keep distribution and sales jobs intact. But that doesn't mean the laws shouldn't be changed so that you can now make the products in the US if the laws are unfair.
2
Trump branded merchandise made in China: cuff links, ties, sweaters, sweatshirts, golf hats, belts, polo shirts, suits, dress shirts, tie clips and teddy bears. Made in USA: red baseball hats. He's a con man.
1
So then, some Maga hats are made in China
"economists warned the levies could drive up prices for consumers "
Low prices are not necessarily a good thing for consumers.
In this context, a cheaper TV, washer, or iPhone means that an American worker, somebody, lost a job. That somebody then applies for social services to support their family, and goes to the ER for family medical care until, or unless, they can gain equal employment. The consumer, in fact, then pays for this (not very) hidden cost of cheaper goods through higher muni taxes assessed on real estate, and higher state and federal income taxes. These are a drag on the economy, preventing that consumer from buying goods or services that are adequately priced. This becomes a vicious cycle- buy cheap foreign products, pay more for American social services... till you become the one who's job is shipped offshore and you can't buy anything anymore.
So, sure, you can have your cheap SK washer (they don't work very well, I have one), flat screen, iThing, solar panel, or Nafta pickup (I have one). And then you can pay to take care of the American workers who lost their job in the cost of your taxes.
American workers need to wake up and take care of their own.
5
Joey,
We should remember tariffs are a two way street. A very large part of our economy involves manufacturing or providing goods and services to countries outside of our borders. The country that manufactures the appliance can just as easily place a tariff on Microsoft software, Boeing aircraft, General Electric turbines or General Motors vehicles in favor of home grown, more expensive and perhaps lesser products. What would that do for our workers and economy?
I'm certainly no economist but I hope that Mr. Trump proceeds very, very cautiously before applying more tariffs. The good intention could result in a trade war, one where both the American worker and consumer turn out the loser.
19
Trump threatening this over the last year has already devastated my fiancées once booming solar business. Simply put, America doesn’t make enough solar panels to meet the demand. Many more American solar industry workers will be put into the unemployment line because of this. You can take credit for this if you voted trump.
29
Yes. Remember the GREAT DEPRESSION. I am an early wave Boomer and hail from the prairies. I grew up hearing about THE DIRTY THIRTIES and all the problems with that period in history. THERE WAS A DISASTEROUS TRADE WAR as well as the drought.
2
I suppose all the out-of-work solar panel installers can go get jobs at coal mines. Or maybe they can move into building seawalls and levees, or hurricane/tornado damage. Sure to be growth economic sectors in the future, what with all that extra CO2 in the atmosphere. But hey, coal miner jobs!
44
Oh, please. These are such petty measures. Can't we do something to help our industries grow instead of provoking trade wares?
12
Petty? I'll assume, Pajaritomt, that you're completely ignorant of China's modus operandi regarding foreign business investment. You absolutely cannot go to China to sell a product, unless, you teach the Chinese absolutely everything about how to design, manufacture, market, and distribute that product. Meaning, you teach them how to put yourself out of business. This is a fact. Please educate yourself.
2
Exactly. So why manufacture anything in China if you know that the Chinese will force you to give up your intellectual property and manufacturing rights. That's right...cheap labor and short-sightedness by US companies.
1
There is a double whammy for prospective solar installers if the tariff on solar panels lasts more than 3 years. The current tax law provides a 30% tax credit for solar installations put into service through 2020, and then diminishes the percentages for the next two years to 26% and 22%, and then drops to 0%. With both the reduced tax credit and the tariff in place, the incentive to install solar generation will drop considerably. A possible, but unlikely, solution is to have US manufactured panels meet off-shore competition through productivity and technology improvements that reduce the cost of US panels. Or a boost in fossil fuel costs, also unlikely, could make solar more desirable. Without a clear path to competitive pricing of US-made panels, plan for a down-turn in solar.
13
Harold:
Thank you for the excellent analysis.
But you missed the biggest reason for the tariff. To increase political donations from the fossil fuel industry!
t
22
And shore up his base in readiness for the midterms.
Tariffs hurt consumers. Period. Bad move.
21
Samsung appliances are notorious for breaking down and for being cheaply made. The company has greatly contributed to our throw-away society so one can look at this as an environmental tariff as much as it is a protectionist tariff.
3
Name me a manufacturer that isn't similarly notorious! About a year ago, I was faced with buying appliances, and my extensive research was terrifying. Already had a Samsung washer that had been great, so finally crossed my fingers and went with them again. So far, no problems.
8
I have not found Samsung any worse than Maytag or Whirlpool.
Please see my comment above. I too have a Samsung washer and it's a great product.
So will Ivanka's recent Chinese trademarks be affected by these new tariffs?
Didn't Obama try to save the domestic solar industry with a 350 million bailout which he was pilloried for by the republicans , and the domestic industry still failed, and sued!
This is just idiotic, the pluses of a functioning and affordable solar industry are immeasurable.
Stonehenge, what a concept.
21
Tax on solar panels? Sure, let them burn coal.
10
Next Trump should ban gas and electric home stoves, ovens and heating. Lets go back to coal stoves and furnaces. It would revive coal mining and create huge demand for new coal burners in every home, American made because no other country digs coal like the good ole USA!!! MAGA!
12
Wood would be better. There’s a lot of it in your National Parks and lumberjacks used to be big in US folk stories.
1
Ha! Well thank goodness the supposed leader of the free world has cracked down on the scourge of imported washing machines. Tens of US jobs will be saved!
11
Sherrod Brown is hardly a right-wing fanatic and he's in favor of this - because yes, washing machines are still made in the US, and the US's position is that Korea has been violating trade agreements. Too bad you don't value Americans who manufacture washing machines. They do important honorable work.
Can't quite be sure if Trump is trying to help US solar or US fossil fuels. What a mess.
16
He's trying to sabotage Solar, and the thousands of installation jobs that go with it.,while hiding behind fake outrage.
14
Didn’t trade wars contribute to Star Wars plots?
Next it’ll be cars.
Buy American: Consider an Amish Buggy! American Made!
11
I thought Republicans were opposed to the government picking winners and losers in our economy.
15
The "stable genius" shows his idiocy yet again:
Ignore/deny climate change (hard to spell/tweet in any case).
Just make sure corporate profits are up.
Now that will really "Make America HATED again".
9
How much did citizen taxpayers benefit from Solyndra? Please dig in to the facts.
2
If only we could slap a tariff on every stupid tweet/decision this Unfit President made.
We'd balance the budget in no time.
15
If those solar panel installers were real Americans they'd be working in coal mines.
10
When this man leaves the White House (we hope it's sooner than later), we need to seriously reconsider the powers given to this office. In the absence of a functioning Congress over the last few decades, we have ceded too much power to the role of president. Nobody much noticed under W or Obama because the executive orders they gave were not so damaging. Now, it's impossible not to notice.
9
Well, leave Musk alone. I want the blasted solar roof. For my house. On which I pay taxes. And which I bought partially on the GI Bill.
7
Once again the do-nothing President reaches for the low-hanging fruit seemingly without any awareness of the potential consequences. How will Wall Street react to a needless Trump trade war? Perhaps he is lashing out at all of those foreign workers who previously "stole American jobs" before he deported them.
9
Did you see the news item where trump is going to deport a Polish born physician/internist and hospital leader with a GREEN CARD because of some past, never significant encounters with the gendarmie.
1
Great!! Other countries will become energy independent by buying the cheap Chinese solar panels. And as a byproduct save the planet a bit, especially over time.
Meanwhile the US, in addition to its aging infrastructure, will fail to catch up with the rest of the world in using solar power or using the cheap solar panels. Meaning more petroleum power and more air pollution.
Trump would fail a logic test!
And the US is forced to deal with it. Lord help us!
15
A couple years ago when General Electric was running those Made In America appliance ads, I ordered a GE Washer and when it arrived it was made in China. It's a nice machine but they must have been moving manufacturing sites while running the Made In USA ads. So disappointing.
9
In order for the US economy to get out of the doldrums, there needs to be much more inflation. If you’re older, do you remember when the cost of new car would double about every 10 years? In 1972, you could buy an average new car for around $2,500. By 1982, it was double. By 1992, it was double again. By 2002, it was double again, bringing the cost of a new car to around $20,000. That’s the kind of inflation I’m talking about. But, it has slowed way down. By 2012, the cost wasn’t $40K. Today, a new car should be around $60K. It’s not. It’s around $30K. Wages are stagnant too. So, what started the slower inflation rate? I believe free trade which got started in the 1990’s. Donald Trump is going to unstuck this situation. Regardless of how you feel about these tariffs or the GOP tax cuts or Trump himself, you should get out of cash now, because inflation is coming and many people will be caught off guard. 99% of my money is in the stock market. It's not going to crash, because inflation is coming. Get out of cash, but DO NOT buy bonds, because interest rates are going up and that will crush the value of the bonds you're holding. If you have bonds, sell them.
This could be a good policy if it wasn't for Trump's bad policies. Helping some American workers is good thing as long as it doesn't damage a higher percentage of American consumers. If we don't halt the shrinking of the middle class Americans won't be able to afford any of these products.
6
"an exception designed to ensure that existing solar module manufacturers in the United States can still access supplies of cells"
You get that? The U.S. solar companies who are "threatened" are going to continue to buy their components from China, AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE. This isn't protecting American jobs in manufacturing. It's protecting a tiny number of relatively low-skill, low-wage ASSEMBLY jobs.
8
I bought an LG washer and dryer last year. After much research, I chose them over their Whirlpool counterpart because guess what? They were simply more reliable and had a much lower rate of repairs needed. Add to the fact that they were feature rich at a lower price point. What incentive will a tarriff on these competitor imports give Whirlpool to continue to improve their products in terms of reliability and overall design? Not much if anything. All this does is to stifle competition and leave the consumer footing the bill.
59
@N. Ross: LG is the brand I own as well, and I would pay a premium to purchase that brand again! Whirlpool is a huge step down in every way.
14
You should buy Speed Queen. Manufactured in the USA (I think Michigan) and has a better record than any other washer or dryer. Maytag, Whirlpool all outsource parts/labor, Speed Queen will outlast an LG by a decade or more. Less waste, less cost for you overall.
3
We've had LG as washer and dryer for a long time and they've worn well, and I would pay a premium for them as well. OTOH, if it is established that they are violating trade agreements and sanctions are appropriate, I will still support the sanctions - just because a product is better is no justification for violating trade agreements. What I really hope is that this gets resolved before I need another washer and dryer so I have a better range of choices.
2
Oh, great, now Whirlpool can continue to make lousy washing machines and not worry about competition from superior, more consumer oriented, manufacturers in other countries. Whirlpool, of course, will gear all of their policies toward short-term stock gains benefitting CEO with stock options and investors.Consumers will be left with an unreliable product that will likely breakdown within 7-8 years.
39
HEY! My Whirlpool dryer lasted 8 1/2 years before it needed major repair. Oh, I get it. Now if Trump would just protect me from GE, who made my $1300 cooktop that needed a little $1900 repair after 7 years.
1
I will be interested to see if tariffs and protectionism actually do good, or if, as so often happens, this move starts numerous trade wars that could have a major impact on the economy.
They knocked Obama relentlessly for trying to "pick winners and losers." Well, isn't that what protectionism is, particularly by a real estate guy with a documented lack of understanding of basic economics.
228
The solar tariffs need to be matched and exceeded by investment in US solar energy. Solar is the future and is not going away. If we are going to make solar harder to get for consumers in the short run, let's invest to make the US a solar manufacturing powerhouse.
14
Sadly that boat has sailed long ago. China accounts for over 2/3 of world wide solar panel production capacity in 2016 (according to a NY Times article last year (https://nyti.ms/2pc5d8P), and its market for panel installation is twice that the size of the US (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40341833).
While one can argue that the Chinese investment in solar energy constitute government subsidy in violation of WTO rules, no one can debate the benefit that this drastic reduction in cost has brought to consumers all over the world, not to mention its impact on global climate.
The real tragedy is that while this tariff will not really spur investment in US solar panel manufacturing (since the rest of the world is a much bigger market than the US alone), those working in the solar installation business are going to be hurt by higher prices, reduced demands, and loss of jobs. That's what happens when you drive policies based on wishful thinking on climate change and decide that coal is better than solar for Americans. Well done, Donald. You've done it again.
13
You can thank the US Congress Republicans during the Obama years for not approving development of solar technology. They didn't want to spend money on a "pig n a poke" while taking big donations from the fossil fuel industry. Now that solar panels are affordable, they want to add tariffs, again, to keep people using fossil fuels. The irony, and loss of opportunity for the American people, is too much for words. Time to vote the geezers stuck in the past century out of office. (And I'm over 60)
10
When the auto industry lobbied for tariffs on imported vehicles - mainly Japanese vehicles - a few years ago, there was a big price increase of those vehicles. The slap in the consumers' face came when domestic manufacturers also increased their vehicles' price. Trumpty Dumpty does not understand that tariffs are very bad and costly not only for the consumer, but in this case also for the environment.
30
If Whirlpool (and GE) assigned their best and brightest to design product (instead of financial engineering to avoid paying taxes), their products would likely be better. Just bought an LG Washer/Dryer and LG solar panels (37 of them) - they were among the most expensive choices but they were the best for my needs. First, on the front loading Washers, LG's are designed differently such that they are 3" -5 " less deep than anything else on the market. The footprint is markedly smaller than anything you can get from a US manufacturer. The Whirlpools and GE's are built for people who live in 3500 Sq Ft houses with jumbo laundry rooms. My mudroom is off of my kitchen and I wanted a W/D that did not protrude into the hallway.
As for the solar panels, the only way to maximize my production (small footprint of my roof) was to go with 350+ Watt standard size (60 cell) panels. Only three options out there 1) Sunpower, 2) Panny, 3) LG. While SunPower manufactures some panels in the US, their software blocks you from seeing production by panel. Fine if you are in the middle of the desert, but not so fine if you have trees and you want to manage (trim) them based on impact as opposed to chopping down the whole tree. So that left Panny (Japan) or LG (Korea).
The point behind going into all this is that I just went foreign on two major purchases because the products were better designed. How are tariff's going to change this?
80
They are not meant to change that. They are meant to punish industries and people who didn't support Trump and force more people to use coal and buy a Whirlpool. Having owned a Whirlpool, I wouldn't buy another one on a bet.
1
I have several times heard or read that Whirlpool would let people buy whatever color washer or drier they wanted as long as it was white, and only grudgingly has made units in other colors because consumers preferred to have a choice. Similarly LG and Samsung made a lot of useful options available in their equipment before Whirlpool would consider them. And if a company can ship a heavy appliance from Asia and it will still cost less and be more reliable than one made here, their manufacturing process must be superior.
I guess this tariff will let Whirlpool go back to its sleepy business as usual.
25
You think the dramatically cheaper labor costs in China might have anything to do with the equation? Many American products are just as good or better than imported versions. But when labor costs $5 a day in one country, and $18 an hour in another, how can competition be fair?
I will still buy Samsung, I love my washer and dryer. Trump cannot control us unless we let him.
7
What a foolish action; these tariffs will merely serve to slow the conversion to clean energy in the U.S. And when the conversion to renewable energy slows, job growth will slow as well. Jobs for installers and maintenance technicians cannot be sent abroad. Construction (including installation) has always been the bellwether for the U.S. economy
21
...and yet another shiny distraction thrown before a cataract-filled, dysfunctional Legislative branch. Will it ever end? Let's see what the "ghost", Pence, has on HIS mind!
Everyone should brace for round 2.
8
Here's what I know -- we bought a Whirlpool washer and dryer 18 months ago. The dryer handle fell off and the washer is almost constantly unbalanced and thumping across the laundry room. I can see why Whirlpool is afraid of competition. Pathetic.
70
This tells me that Whirlpool can't compete, and is likely to relocate.
Imagine if they worked with Whirlpool to improve their competitiveness.
3
Ask any Mom in America (or Dads who do laundry) -- these American machines are lousy these days. My Mom's Kenmore lasted decades. Mine is leaking after only a few years, and needs to be replaced.
It's a failure of both materials and engineering -- and now we're giving bad domestic manufacturers trade protection? Who and what are we rewarding.
Meanwhile, ordinary Americans lose and lose again.
1
And for his next "genius" move the USA will start investing in tulips.
11
Instead of Little Rocket Man, Trump is attacking South Korea. What a genius!
18
Do the tariff's start immediately or do they start when?
1
Interesting that Trump has no problem with filling open service positions at Mar A Lago with foreign workers over those from America.
37
So far, team Trump has not proposed any new trade deals with any market, big or small. He is methodically withdrawing from international deals, or preemptively slapping duties, barriers, or poison pills, that will invariably escalate into full-blow trade wars. In December, Canada launched a massive, wide-ranging complaint at the WTO against the US. They presented more than 200 examples of American violations of trade agreements, not only against Canada but against Mexico and China. We'll see how it all plays out.
18
Tariffs are a slippery slope. Now China may put Tariffs on some of the items that the US exports. This is a bad omen for free trade and ultimately bad for the markets of stocks and goods. Everybody loses.
15
Thank you so much New York Times. I have noticed a marked improvement in representing our country and our president in a balanced nature in the last couple of months.
Bob Hansen
1
Tomorrow 1. the Bond market will feel this. China will not purchase the exact amount of bonds to equate with the loss in solar panels. 2.Consumers will feel this in two weeks as the price of washers will increase 10%.
4
Trump is truly not a politician. His campaign promises were not just talk to win votes but a commitment to see the promises through. He is fighting hard to get funding for the wall. Trump is going over board to put America first and Obama went overboard to put America last. Quite a contrast.
2
It's estimated that 20,000 American jobs will be lost with the tariff on solar panels. Make America ache again!
19
No, fascist, the stock market isn’t the real world. It is just a manipulated gambling den where the money of people like you disappears because you don’t understand how it works. The real world is where people make things and sell them for specie and other goods, not where they make vague bets on future productivity.
1
In order to balance the perspective of the administration with actual data,
it would be really useful for the Times to publish (and very soon) a detailed
article that analyzes the solar cell market, the effect of
imports priced as they are, the capacity of domestic producers
to meet demand, the consequences upon the market of
a variety of new tariff charges, not necessarily the single
figure of 30%. How will the domestic market respond to
such an increase? Do the domestic solar power agents actually
think 30% is a reasonable/needed tariff increase? How was
the figure of a 30% increase arrived at?
Such an article is urgently important to help readers
decide if this is merely a convenient and yet another veiled effort ti make oil-coal more price attractive.
If it turns out that the article demonstrates clearly
and convincingly that it is indeed a pretext to price solar unfairly
what are possible concrete responses to undercut the administration's
decision?
9
The biggest boon has been the exponentially dropping cost of solar and the corresponding increase in efficiency. One of the drivers of this has been and always will be, competition among manufacturers. What a tariff does is give a monetary advantage to certain designated manufacturers, those in the US. So now their incentive to further lower costs is reduced. History has shown that tariffs simply don't work and ultimately hurt. It boggles my mind how ignorant Trump is on basic business principles. But then he is NOT a true business man - he is really just a big landlord.
19
So.... How about Saudi Oil? Surely they are dumping far more foreign-made energy into our economy than solar panels made in South Korea or China.
17
American washers are mostly top loaders using tons of water...but then, what does the Trump administration know/care about conserving.
Don't know enough about solar panel except to say they should be produced in this country and used extensively, wherever possible.
7
Great Move Donnie ... Because Americans LOVE more expensive energy! Let's follow up with a 25% tariff on imported oil!
10
If Whirlpool was so concerned about their overseas competition, perhaps they should start making a better product.
22
Or perhaps the vast differential in labor costs here and in China makes competition not a level playing field?
Sure, let's revive coal -- an energy source that's economically dead -- and levy a heavy tax on solar cells and panels.
Complete and utter madness.
11
Interesting. Do you think he knows that China owns most of our country's debt?
7
When will there be tariffs on the Trumps' apparel? Americans can make hats, suits, women's clothing, shoes, ties, shirts, jewelry, etc.
13
“When will there be tariffs on the Trumps' apparel? Americans can make hats, suits, women's clothing, shoes, ties, shirts, jewelry, etc.”
Right on Sue!...but the Hypocrite in Chief will set no examples that affect one penny of his profits. I agree that foreign products should not be “dumped” here, but this is tricky business and we await to see how retaliation will play out. I also have no doubt that Scott Pruitt was “irrationally exuberant” over a tariff on solar panels. Why have affordable clean power when you can have dirty hydrocarbons loaded with political contributions. Panel installers who lose their jobs can grab a pick and shovel and head to West Virginia. (Be sure to wear a good particulate mask and read up on mesothelioma.) I have nothing against hard working coal miners but coal is dying and the sun comes up for free everyday. Harness that energy, pump it into your house and car, then breathe some cleaner air.
6
Buy a made in America (Wisconsin) Speed Queen washer and dryer. I've had this duo for years and they are the best machines I've ever owned. They're built to last 25 years with steel drums in both. 3, 5 and 7 yr warranties. Everyone I've told who bought them loves them.
It's almost like a secret that they exist because it's a company that makes commercial machines as well. You can get the washer and dryer in the newer elec. control panels that you press or the regular manual dial that you press and turn. I prefer the dial model.
6
It is getting more and more difficult to react with articulate statements. At some point, all I can do is scream in frustration. When we're watching clear impacts of man-made climate change, when we're reaching a tipping point of no return, we have a clueless leader who can only think to enrich his coal and oil allies, and who is incapable of deep or scientific reasoning. Just hoping we can change this in 2018 and 2020. If not, we can call it done.
21
We can give the tax credits to offset any increased cost installing solar panels. Let's help union workers. Also don't send our money to China so that they can defeat us in a future war.
1
Tax Credits are a scam to make the tax payer pay for the hugely inflated prices of items intentionally over priced to prevent them from becoming common and even cheaper than they should be already.
The tax credit steals the tax income that funds our government and gives it to a greedy overcharging socially irresponsible business instead!
We need price controls we don't need to put additional burden on the taxpayer!
5
My statement was to call the bluff of those who complained about higher costs.
I completely agree with your sentiment.
1
Will this be broadcast on Fox so-called News tonight? I hope the Trumpites are pleased with coming in way behind leading nations when it comes to renewable energy.
13
They are thoroughly delighted, I'm quite sure of it. If it makes sense, it's bad to them.
4
I think we need trust in the president's vast experience with laundering.
224
Now it makes sense. I never realized that foreign made washers and dryers were used for money laundering.
6
Another big payoff for Trump's oil and coal klepto-capitalist friends. At the expense of average Americans, everyone who works in the solar installation industry, and the environment. Sickening.
48
Somebody needs to slap something on Trump, Perhaps a tariff on illiterate tweets, or racism, or stupidity, or lies. This malevolent short fingered vulgarian is doing everything he can to move America from mere capitalism to feudalism. The sooner his “move” comes, the better.
58
Why isn’t he protecting American steel ?
6
Great. Now Trump can launder his Russian money in US-made machines
41
Using the Magic Trump Decoder Ring:
"exhaustive process" ======
"deep deep investigation only slightly less detailed than the voter fraud commission"
5
While Trump is being so forward-thinking, did he remember to put a tariff on whale-oil products as well?
12
If you can manufacture overseas and not have to comply with any pollution regulations, and worker safety is job 31 them you have a tremendous advantage.
Good luck now that we allowed GE to be sold to the Chinese.
Tariffs should take that into account.
Lots of luck getting service on Asian made imported appliance brands.
Minimal parts inventory state side, and few factory trained techs who know how to service them. Bosch too. A two hour job on a Whirlpool could be all day on a Samsung, (bad design) and you would have to tell the customer it's too expensive to repair. Even if the parts were in stock.
Techs I know have Asian brands in their homes that they got for the hauling.
Who else could afford a 10 hour labor charge, and get the parts wholesale?
Generic parts that keep machines affordable and running for years don't seem to exist for the imported brands. Savings on HE machines that only kick in at seven years of use don't happen because they don't last that long.
1
The fossil fuel industry sees the writing on the wall. Soon they will be dinosaurs but before they go, they will milk every last penny they can from Mother Earth.....future generations be damned.
I for one plan on fighting for our planet. I could not face my grandchildren if I did not.
33
In times of war, armies seek to blockade their enemy’s trade.
In times of peace, elected governments do the same to their own people.
Trump imagines he’s hurting China et al. He obviously doesn’t understand — or perhaps hopes the voters won’t — that it’s the American consumer who’ll pay the tariff, just as they do any sales tax.
16
I believe Speed Queen, Maytag, and GE washing machines are U.S. made. Anyone else want to add to the list? Maybe Kenmore?
1
GE got bought by the Chinese Haider in 2016.
Maytag moved to Mexico.
Kenmore is a name slapped on a bunch of products.
Whirlpool-Maytag were merged in 2006 in a move that defied anti trust sense.
7
I just finished two comments on Speed Queen. I own a w/d combo. Best machines I've ever owned. Some people have owned theirs for over 25 years! And they're very affordable.
They don't advertise and they must be one of the best companies in the US. Nicest people to deal with as well.
2
The protectionist tariffs on foreign (Chinese) made solar panels was an easy choice for Trump. He couldn't care less about alternative energy sources because he's too stupid to understand that those will be the jobs of the future - whether HE likes it or not. His big-energy cronies (oil, coal, gas) are celebrating their new-found polluting profits. ALSO, the manufacture of these panels is very polluting - doing so here would cause significant environmental damage int addition to making them much less affordable for eco home owners. Because ofTHAT slowdown, many American jobs would be lost. It's a loser from every angle, as is Trump
Consumer Reports has very few top-rated washers that are manufactured in America, and they are very expensive. Consumers should have the choice of what products they wish to purchase, and from where. Traditionally, American-made autos cannot compete with those from Japan, Germany and South Korea in terms of quality or price. That is why consumers choose these cars over most American brands. When "Detroit" can produce a car that can compete with the Japanese in quality, at a competitive price, Americans will buy them.
Protectionist tariffs tend to disable the incentive to excel, being protected by the government (and we know the huge faults there). Trump is opening up Pandora's box to support his tiny minority of a base instead of encouraging American competition for quality. Consider all the Chinese steel in his buildings!.
12
You just answered my question! What does Consurmer Reports say about which machines are best?
I bought an LG 5 nearly 5 years ago. Works great!
2
America does have a top washer and dryer. They're made in Wisconsin (Speed Queen) but since their revenues are mainly derived from commercial machines, they don't advertise. It's word of mouth or small appliance stores that consumers hear about them.
I found them after researching for a new w/d combo after a few weeks. I had never heard of them but I learned very fast how amazing they were. I bought both and would never buy a foreign w/d again. The land fills are full of foreign w/d that haven't lasted consumers and the motherboard from China fails in those fancy panels a lot of times after the lst yr warranty.
Their warranty on Speed Queen is 3, 5 and 7 yrs and everyone I've told about them who's purchased them, loves them. They're built to last 25 yrs.
Unfortunately, the American Co. Whirlpool builds junk. I've owned quite a few models and they're a waste of money. My Whirlpool range almost caught on fire due to a motherboard blowing up. It was only 1 yr old. Fridge freezer froze over right after 1 yr warranty. And these are suppose to be steel but a steel specialist said they're not true steel. Go figure..lol.
3
THANK YOU! That's great to know. You should inform Consumer Reports.
What about the free market? That solves all problems, right Republicans? If Whirlpool built a better washer, people would buy them. The hypocrisy of the right runs rampant!
20
Great. Now I get to buy an inferior washing machine for my house on which I cannot deduct my property taxes. I think I will pay the tariff and invest in tax free muni bonds.
11
Ms. Swanson, why have you not included any quotes or statistics from the Solar Energy Industry Association, which completely opposes this tariff? They estimate that 23,000 American solar jobs will be lost. What sort of reporting would exclude that estimate?
19
I see you've expanded the article to include some information and a quote from SEIA - thank you. I'm still surprised to see such limited analysis of the distribution of solar jobs here in the states. Vast majority are in installation, auxiliary component manufacturing, and sales. A 30%-15% tariff on panels will jeopardize those jobs. I would also add that the 2.5 GW exemption is small compared to the roughly 12 GW of solar that was installed in the US in 2017.
4
The majority of jobs in the USA solar panel business is in the installation.
By making supply of solar panels more expensive - there will be less installations - most likely resulting in layoffs.
14
Just as long as the tariff is to protect America solar equipment manufacturers, rather than impede it's supply to favor polluting fossil/oil producer's. With credibility-challenged Trump you never know.
4
Is there any idea of the number USA imports of either washing machines or solar panels?
4
Oh no!
Now we won't get to buy products that are cheaper because they're made by underpaid, exploited workers in horrible conditions!
Now we won't get to buy products that are cheaper because another country ignores any sort of environmental protections to make them!
Awww!
And what about the huge carbon footprint it takes to ship all that stuff to the US? What we will do with less carbon on the scene?
Some of us are willing to pay more to protect workers and the environment while also employing Americans. Others are selfish and only care about what they pay for the product regardless of who suffers to get them that "cheaper" price.
2
'Soon' you will be able to buy a TV with a flat screen made in WI at the Taiwanese Fox Con plant. WI is providing $$Billions in inducements. Special waivers on environmental restrictions also. Employment may reach 13,000? but WI does not have enough workers now (low 3% unemployment). WI is advertising for Illinoisans to come-on up for a job. Will there be Taiwanese workers/managers/trainers? Will they be granted special visas? Will they be allowed to bring their families?
2
The US has a long history of talking a good line about the merits of free enterprise and free trade, until it encounters someone who does a better job than it does. Then out comes the tariff hammer!
12
The Chinese government is supplementing Chinese solar manufacturers to put American Solar panel manufacturers and others out of business. Trump is defending American Solar manufacturers.
2
This tariff will cause isolation around the world which start trade wars among nations. The result is global depression!
4
Have you seen Trumps global ratings? The world is already pretty depressed.
5
This makes fossil fuels more attractive....very simple.
1
Great! Let's use 19th century energy sources and technology to deal with 21st century climate change! Only a stable genius like Trump would come up with such a perfect plan.
13
Solar panels and batteries are getting cheaper and cheaper.
The tariffs don't really mean anything as American manufacturing and productivity will be competitive.
Plus China's costs are going up, so with time it will be a more level playing field. Unless China keeps trying to weaken the RMB to flood countries with cheap exports.
I always wonder why it's okay for China to artificially lower their currency, subsidize their industries so they are more competitive than private companies with limitless cash printed from the Chinese government and immune to bankruptcy while stealing IP from hard-working Americans, but readers here feel it's not okay for any President to try and protect American workers?
The bias in comments section these days, this is not objective neutral journalism or readership. If Obama did this, readers would be singing praises.
Seems people care more about who does the action, than what the action is.
2
Most commenters are missing the point that these are anti-dumping tariffs. The Chinese are playing the old John D. Rockefeller game of driving the competition out by selling products for less than their cost. In many cases, the difference between a US company surviving and being driven out of the industry is just a few percent. Consider the sad case of Five Rivers Innovations, our last TV manufacturer. You can find details on the Internet. They were able to produce for a few percent less than the Chinese, but were driven to bankruptcy by dumping. A judgment came, but two years too late. 9000 jobs were destroyed by US late action.
2
Overall the solar tariffs will cost jobs, make us more dependent on others for petroleum and coal, and put us at more risk from climate induced conflicts and immigration.
Solar tariffs are more about promoting coal, petroleum, and other sources than manufacturing. They will reduce more jobs than they would create because of impacts on installers and companies doing installing etc.
Not having Solar tariffs would have helped us be more independent in the long run because petroleum, gas, and environmentally tolerable coal sources will become more rare in the future and should be used wisely to prevent us from becoming more reliant on foreign sources for fuel and the chemical industry in the long run.
The impact on global warming from tariff caused diminished installation of solar should also be of concern due to weather related impacts within our homeland and also due to imperiling our national security by increasing global warming caused international conflicts and the number of climate created refugees hoping to come here.
It would be great if someone starts selling panels they have produced here at the present prevailing price. Will increased demand result in economies of scale allowing US manufacturer's to reduce price? So far it seems doubtful.
4
According to this article, Trump's trade advisers came to this decision only after "an exhaustive process" but they obviously ignored the history of U.S. protectionist measures, which have resulted in failures and dire economic consequences.
13
Do you mean the dire consequences experienced by Chinese high tariffs that spurred its growth in the 1990s? Or the high tariffs that helped Japan grow in the 1970s? Or the high tariffs in South Korea that helps them grow from a poor country into an industrialized country? Or maybe you are referring to Smoot-Hawley tariffs which were enacted after the great depression started and which scores of other countries enacted as well. Even Paul Krugman said that those tariffs have nothing to do with the depression.
4
Probably the same "exhaustive process" the administration and Senate Republicans went through in order to make sure the tax decrease for the wealthy made economic sense. In other words, about 10 minutes of thinking how to frame it all to fool the citizenry.
7
Tariffs should be imposed on ALL the products off-shored by the US multinationals until we reach balanced trade. Rules for NAFTA, CAFTA, KORUS, and the ill-fated TPP were all written without the input or participation from the working class. Under the guise of "Free trade" the system was rigged to increase corporations' profits. In many manufacturing intense industries, the entire value creating supply chain had been moved to China with the result that China has overtaken the US in manufacturing capabilities. It is time to stand up for the working class. More steps need to be taken to curtail the mercantile corporate globalization. Else the contagion of the loss of good paying jobs will continue to spread to more sectors, and will result in the loss of tax base and societal cohesion. Flint, MI is a glaring example of the past wrong trade policies.
7
European washing machines are the way to go. They use less water and clean better.
Solar panel is the best, obviously!
11
Bosch makes the only machine that really works.
Despite the naysayers and historians, the protectionist experiment is worth performing. The US, like Australia, Canada, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, inter alia, export products that the low-wage nations like China are always going to buy no matter how aggrieved their trade ministers may become - trade wars will always result in a net for benefit the former bloc.
Although the majority of Australians find Mr Trump entirely 'unpalatable' in almost all respects, his willingness to explore protectionism sets him apart from modern politicians, and was the reason why he attracted as many votes as he did. Similar politicians here have garnered considerably more support than their otherwise obnoxious policies would suggest: working class Australia, like their American counterparts, see protectionism as the only real solution to the massive and sustained job losses they've suffered in manufacturing. As a physician, far removed from their daily plight, I find it hard to disagree.
2
Thank you for your comment, it was very interesting. I am struggling to be fair-minded about any of Trump's decisions, so I'm ambivalent about the target of this outcropping of protectionism, meaning, why solar panels? I can see how it's potentially beneficial to force home companies back into manufacturing goods, instead of importing them. But it also seems a bit like he's simply adding to the list of ways that he can appease his oil buddies while also damaging the efforts the previous administration made in terms of environmental protections.
14
Trump is not interested in alternative energy and will not push manufacturing these products in the US. He will benefit greatly from supporting big oil. Many Individual states will forego Trump and further their own interest in solar energy.
12
So that is where the money I save on my taxes will go--to buy things that cost much more. Aaagh!
10
If it actually worked out like that I wouldn't mind it . If I paid less in taxes and paid about as much as I saved on more expensive goods that were made in the U. S. providing decent paying jobs.
4
What you will very temporarily save in taxes will not come close to compensating for the rising costs involved in trade wars and inflation.
4
The article could have presented some stats to show why the solar industry hated this attempt to "protect" it.
Industry studies indicate that the $0.10/watt increase in project cost will cause a ~8% drop in project volume in the first year.
Of the 260,000 solar jobs nationwide, the great majority are in services: sales, project development, design, installation, financing, etc. Only 38,000 are in manufacturing, and of these only 2,000 are in solar cell and panel manufacturing. The rest work making trackers, racking systems, inverters, and so forth, which are not covered by the tariff.
So, an industry of a quarter-million workers is going to take a 8% hit to help 2,000 people engaged in manufacturing panels. A cynic would say that this tariff is actually a means to punish an industry that did not support Trump.
158
And the cynic would be correct.
9
It's all a con, a scam, to support big, dirty energy - like Tillerson's XOM. Your analysis is excellent.
14
What a sad step backward for American consumers and workers. Shutting the world out will only weaken us economically.
18
So, in order to get the best washing machines, which LG makes, Americans will have to pay a lot more. Making America poor again. Thx POTUS
47
What about solar clothes dryers?
Will rope be taxed too?
26
looks like we're moving toward a tea tax again
5
There will obviously be some reciprical responses from affected offshore companies, but if we end up having our factory robots increasing production of these products, how does that create jobs??
11
Because President Obama supported Solar energy as a pathway to reduced energy dependence on oil and coal, Revenger trump decides to impose tariffs on solar products, "There, that'll teach you to support Obama!"
What is the point of having Congress if the president just makes unilateral decisions and Congress remains silent?
75
Glad I got my solar before Trump took steps to kill the solar industry. Mine paid off in 7 years, and the system is guaranteed to produce at 85% for 13 more years.
No more electricity bills, no more burning fossil fuels.
It kills me (and if continued will eventually kill Trump's progeny too) to see this happen.
39
Most likely, the President is targeting other products China produces and imports to the US. He did it with other products not too long ago and the Chinese agreed to lower tariffs on some US imports. Otherwise, solar products involve huge amounts of pollution to produce and, like wind, do not produce enough power to suit our energy needs.
2
I've heard this rhetoric before and I'm sure it suits a narrative. However, please site your sources so that we may all revel in this new found wisdom.
Solar on my roof provides 100% of my electric needs including powering my electric car.
5
How many groups of people can this administration completely alienate before the 2018 midterm elections. So far there's
Mexicans
Muslims
Gold Star Families
US Intelligence Agencies
LGBT Folks
Grad School Students
Environmentalists
Scientists
Women
And there's at least three more years to go. At what point will the voters turn away from this madness?
36
He's going to put the brakes on the solar revolution, while helping his fossil fuel buddies. Things are going to get a lot worse before they get any better.
34
It's hard to imagine how this doesn't end up hurting America.
417
Based on what evidence? And what exactly is China going to tax from the US? They do not buy any of our products they blatantly steal our digital property and raise trade barriers on everything we make. Trading with China has been a fool's game for decades and we have been the losers.
Do yourself a favor and research how many American companies have China as their largest or second largest market. If China decides to stop GM from selling its cars in its largest market, that will be the end of GM and 1000s of Americans will lose jobs. Thats just one company in one Industry. Do you realize China is the largest market, largest exporter, largest trading nation in the world?
Good question Bruce. I admit my comment is more intuition rather than an evidence based judgment. But I will say that slapping tariffs on a bunch of products without a careful analysis of of the repercussions is dangerous. In particular how many jobs are dependent on the very product that is now being taxed at a higher rate would have been a thoughtful line of questioning posed by the Trump administration. Also, if importation of these products diminishes will American companies be interested in production? If the answer is yes will production move to the US or will manufacturing in the US still be too expensive? Given Trump's past history its a safe bet that he is incapable of asking these types of questions and even if he was provided the answers he has been uninterested in learning the details. Instead Trump prefers to make large gestures and then claim victory even if not victory exists. To be blunt Trump has not shown he is able to make the correct judgements about trade in my view.
So, as the revolution in solar power begins, the US does its best to choke it in its crib. That won't work, but it will be interesting to see how American consumers respond to having to pay much more for everything they buy. I doubt the Chinese will take this lying down, but I also doubt that this is the last time the US will try to bully and coerce its way towards "protecting" home industries that are a lot more expensive.
11
Since he just lost round one in the budget war, and can't admit that he was hoodwinked by his staff and hard right-wingers on DACA, let's stir the pot. Let's make the new bright shiny thing a trade war.
And how is that investigation going, Mr. Mueller?
10
I wonder if these tariffs on solar panels will bring Solyndra back from the dead.
1
Koch Bros 495,432 and climbing.
US Citizens 0.
19
Made in America....what a novel idea
3
Yeah, well, ya know what, Mr. Trump? Go ahead and, effectively, bar cheaper and more efficient solar panels from importation into the United States. Protect moribund fossil-fueled "technology" that you and your SoS espouse. Washing machines (laughing), seriously, washing machines? This is a joke, yes? Korea exports more washing machines than China. Moreover, do you really think that Tim Cook is going to make iPhones in the USA?
You like deals? So, here is the deal. In the ROW (Rest Of the World) no one cares about you Mr. Trump, and as time goes on, about the United States. I live in Spain, where energy from solar and wind now account for ±20% from all sources. In Europe as a whole, we lead the world. If you and your ilk "base" wish to cling to the past, a past of unsustainable "jobs" digging coal out of the ground or raping the Alaskan hinterlands for a few more drops (relatively speaking) of petroleum, be it on your head.
Go ahead, build your walls around your Trumpian Rome, isolate yourself and yours from the reality of human/technological evolution, which the vast majority of your base are either incapable, or ignorant, of grasping.
Hint: The Vandals are at the gates, Mr. Trump. Have another extra scoop of ice cream to go with your cheeseburger.
Me? I am in Spain, and the weather is fine! Zero Carbon Footprint works for us.
205
The US is already a Third World Country, backward-thinking people "electing" (through fraud) a despot with the intellect of a 3rd grader who is intent on enriching himself and his gang at the expense of the country. Democracy: a noble experiment that apparently doesn't work without an educated populace.
1
American wanted failure and they are getting it. I feel sorry for those who did not vote trump, those who did purposely believed lies and are paying the consequences (which they blame on scapegoats instead of taking responsibility for their own stupidity).
14
I wonder what Trump's voters in agricultural states will say when their foreign sales decline and grass grows in their streets? Tariffs and trade wars don't end well in the age of globalization. Even an intellectually-challenged graduate of Wharton School of Business would know that.
20
This is a veiled attempt to protect the fossil fuel industry at the expense of US citizens. The cost of solar has been competitive with the monopoly fossil fueled energy suppliers. This will make solar less competitive and slow it's growth while coal and nat gas continue to reap profits. Meanwhile the tariff will have no effect on US manufacturing ability. The previously implemented tariff proved this.
13
I seem to remember an old ad from a former US manufacturer: "Quality is Job 1." Also the old mantra "Build a better mousetrap and they will come."
We are failing on nearly all fronts from a quality standpoint in general manufacturing unless it has whiz bang electronics in the product and then, even then, much of the time.
Put up a tariff wall and it is like an immigration wall. We fall behind. That is what is happening now. We are falling behind in the name of keeping our white selves insularly protected so we can look in the mirror and say We are the best. We are great again!" While the world leaves us behind on all fronts.
For a proponent of deregulating everything so it can blossom and bloom not matter the after the fact carnage and filth in the process itself, this President and his party sure seem to like to regulate our trading habits. I guess they don't believe in competition, in the free market and all that good stuff when it gets in their way.
7
Seems reasonable. We should be making this stuff ourselves.
8
We do, we just can't make it as cheaply. 1st, we don't have the raw materials that china does. 2nd as trump pointed out, american workers are paid too much. 3rd the US has always gone to where it is cheaper to grow/produce something. It always made more profit for american corporations. Many american corporations make their products in poor countries to cut labor and overhead costs, plus to ignore any environmental concerns.
2
Great! Now Americans can pay even more for some products which means all those supposedly down on their luck people who voted for him will have even less spending power. Way to go Trump and his supporters! Keep up the good work of causing the poor, working and middle classes to be less well off.
8
Does it never occur to people why products made in China, India and Mexico are so much cheaper?
They exploit workers and the environment.
Then there's the big carbon footprint left to ship all of the stuff to the US.
The elites make more money while the rest of us get stuck with dirty air and water...but cheaper washing machines.
4
Max - Pay less for foreign made products, putting American workers out of work. Put those out of work Americans on welfare and food stamps so they will all vote for the Democratic Party's candidates. Fantastic party thinking!
1
Tired,
Those jobs aren't coming back because, for the most part, they didn't go overseas. They were lost to automation. I assume that you are conservative. I also assume that you are a staunch supporter of capitalism and think socialism is a four letter word. Well, this is what capitalism does.
2
Here way go exactly one year after taking office.
Let's wait for another year to see how it will play out.
Will Canada, China, India and Japan hit back?
2
No company is going to get into solar panel manufacturing when they know that China has already built up the factories and supply chains that have driven the price so far down. This isn't going to help American solar panel manufacturers much. It's just going make renewable energy more expensive for Americans. Another gift to dirty power.
21
We *were* just about to buy a washing machine.
8
Does anyone realize that this is hurting the average American and the American economy? More people buy washing machines than make them. Therefore having to pay more for one hurts the average American who wants a good product at a reasonable price. Why not start making policies to help American companies innovate (like Singapore, France and now China) to come up with revolutionary products (or product improvements, services, etc.) to lead the way? This creates a demand for a new supply which then boosts the economy. This administration so disillusioned that it’s truly mind blowing (just when I think we can’t get much lower...).
12
I may not be remembering this right, but in the past, didn't we generally say "The US imposed a tariff" rather than "President so-and-so decided to slap on a tariff?"
11
Back then, tariffs were usually well researched and a product of a lot of negotiation. That is not the case here.
16
Does this mean that the solar energy project we are designing for our home is going to cost more? Who is this tariff helping? Doesn't sound like it is me.
13
It's helping all of us. Trump or Obama or Anyone else as president must enforce trade regulations. We've relaxed barriers to trade steadily and markedly since Bretton Woods but we can't survive in "trade anarchy." These producer countries were subsidizing. If you think American workers felt cheated by free trade, think of what unfair and unfettered trade would look like. By the way, Obama's government investments in solar were not undermined by markets or by advances in technology - these unfair trade practices swamped the market with subsidized alternatives made overseas with such low pollution standards that the net impact of installing solar - when the polluting impact of production is factored in - was essentially a wash. And then our reasonable domestic policy of subsidizing production of alternative energy was made to look foolish when the companies went bankrupt
5
This helps no one but big energy companies and their investors. So what is he doing to help companies build appliances better than the imports?
3
Pricing and quality impacts markets, right?
Can USA manufactured panels and wash8ng machines compete on price and quality?
Labor is so, so very much cheaper in some places when compared to USA labor. ....and of course, the cost of living in some other places is much cheaper than in America.
In India, someone who makes $1.05 an hour is lower middle class, or example.
I have a friend who used to work at a company that moved between 400 & 500 jobs to Asia over the last few years - jobs that paid &13 per hour here and provided good benefits but in India, paid USD equivalent of $1.05 per hour. This was NOT. in manufacturing sector....
Few want to talk about this fundamental issue - maybe because their are no good answers (other than on the margins’?
It’s all taxes and regulatory compliance ..... isn’t the cost of tabor a more significant cost to most businesses?
2
Boy do I need to write elsewhere and then copy/paste when proofread!
Probably uncaught autocorrect “Their” instead of there, many typos, etc.
Ugh
2018 seems like it's going to be a bumper year maybe extending into 2019 as Solar installers optimise installation and stockpile Chinese panels at the year end.
This will convince customers to act in 2018 and in 2019 , thousands of installers will be laid off but far less jobs than expected in Solar manufacturing will be created as solar demand decreases.
What we should be focusing on is identifying the ares where we can effectively produce solar panels in the USA at costs closer to the imported compeitition, this is how free enterprise should work , not with trade walls which are nothing more than a prop for inefficiency and profiteering.
4
The Chinese plan seemed to be to run the American solar makers out of business before raising prices. Whether that would happen is guesswork, but China's mercantilism is well-established fact.
5
It seems Trump’s intent is not to accelerate and enhance our position in the solar energy sector where so many jobs await creation in renewable energy production, but merely to dash its influence outright in American homes and business in favor of his fossil fuel dreams. It is breathtaking (literally) in its lack of vision, scope, and leadership. It serves only to keep our nation’s economic path primitively fueled and not properly infused with the newest technologies possible.
86
Wait, I thought solar energy was some hippie pipe dream and we were all going back to coal, so why do we need a tariff to protect an industry that doesn’t really exist? Oh, right, because Trump.
21
Here we go. For those who actually like to look at history, we know that one of policy changes that drove the depression to greater depths was tariffs. Trade wars do not end well ever.
If he kills NAFTA, which is likely, after withdrawing from TPP, will continue to cede US power to the Chinese. One could not come up with a worse set of policy choices. We will all pay the price eventually.
623
He's handing more economic world leadership to the Chinese, and don't think they won't make a bundle on this...stable genius? He must have some of his wealth invested over there.
2
Our top three trade partners are in order - China, Canada, Mexico.
More importantly, or largest customers for US exports are Canada and Mexico. In 2017 the comprised 34% of our total EXPORTS
The three countries together comprise almost half of all US foreign trade.
Picking fights with our biggest customers is beyond stupid.
"Those who read history" does not include the parvenu president or his sycophants.
1
Someone should point out to Mr. Trump that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. He may reap just rewards in the long run. Unfortunately it is the American populace that will suffer but I doubt he understands, much less cares.
13
Just the latest step in Trump's campaign to deliver a $1T+ next generation energy market to the Chinese. We were positioned to lead the Global transition from a carbon based economy to an electron based economy; solar, wind, storage and controls. Robert Murray (Murray Energy - Coal), Rex Tillerson (ex Exxon CEO - Oil) and Scott Pruitt (Devon Energy - Oil) have done a wonderful job of supporting/subsidizing fossil fuels and jobs of the past at the expense of a cleaner energy future for the 21st Century. Trump, Murray, Tillerson and Pruitt are clearly more concerned about their own bank accounts than the future of the US economy and the planet's environment.
31
This article would be well done if it included information about where the different major washing machine brands are made.
13
Good point. Are there any washing machines made in the USA? If yes what brand? How does that lead to anything in this market but inflation? Where is the benefit?
2
I totally agree.I want to know which of our "US" manufacturers actually import machines.
4
Anti-competitive, head-in-the-sand nonsense that will hold back innovation and growth. This is bad economic policy whether it comes from the xenophobic right or the socialist left.
9
Not surprised that a pro-coal POTUS is against solar panels while seeking a monopoly on money laundering.
29
Washing machines are manufactured in the United States?
13
Nope- not anymore.
1
Killing jobs and making the air dirtier while slapping Americans with a 30% tax. When is he going to put a tariff on the Chinese products Ivanka imports?
143
Great work Mister President. The tariffs will stop those chain immigrants from entering in foreign washing machines.
15
We’re supposed to find this super exciting after a year of empty promises?
Just one more.
5
Dear Ana, When do you think the "Donald" last had to wash his clothes or buy a washing machine. I have Speed Queens, made in America. Before that I had machines with American logos made in Brazil. As to Solar products, glad to hear the "Donald" step up to the plate. Ana, can you ask the "Donald" not to drill for oil off the coast of Oregon along the Cascadia Plate with a triple point just off of Northern California, might save some grief in the future. Sincerely, Clueless in Oregon. RAW
6
Ok, now let's add those tariffs on Trump's cheap tie imports from China, and his daughter's Asian clothes and shoes.
44
Why did Trump had to start with the solar industry? Surprise. Surprise.
13
How many readers know what a gigawatt is?
Boy this'll work great just as long as other countries don't retaliate. Smoot-Hawley anyone?
6
Trump is going to cause some major economic problems because he's ignorant and doesn't listen to anyone. He's also incapable of, and just doesn't care about learning anything new (including how the economy is affected by tariffs.)
He should have a council of economic advisors who can tell him about the danger of messing with trade. God help us all.
9
I feel better already knowing this will all come out in the wash.
8
Delighted about tariff on washing machines as rich people don't buy American.
Solar panels deplorable.Trump and GOP are killing us all.
6
Putting tariffs on solar panels is idiotic. Here we have a situation where a foreign country is subsidizing the manufacture of solar panels for us to make us less dependent on fossil fuels. Rather than take away jobs, this creates a huge number of jobs for the installers, and ends up employing many more people than would have been employed to make them at a higher cost.
14
Anyone who thinks that foreign producers will not retaliate in some manner is as dumb as Trump. If he cannot start a nuclear war with North Korea, well, he'll start a trade war with China - all the while propping up the dying coal industry. Oh, and by the way, how many tens of millions of solar panels do you think China is about to sell in Africa and Middle East? Hint: it's a really big number.
15
Trump’s train of thought:
women marching=bad.
women’s work=domesticity.
washing machine tariff=that’ll show em.
Make women subservient again.
11
The US government should be subsidizing the cost of US-made solar panels so they are as inexpensive as imported ones, rather than raising the cost of solar energy to make it more expensive. We need more solar panels installed, not fewer, to reduce emissions from electric power plants that burn fossil fuels and contribute to rising global temperatures that increase the incidence of drought and wildfires in the West and violent rain storms in the East. Recurrent weather-related disasters cost taxpayers far more than subsidizing the cost of making solar panels affordable for everyone.
119
Precisely.
2
Stop! You're making sense! This will never fly in Washington. Not enough rich guys will get richer.
He will protect a few hundred solar manufacturing jobs and kill thousands of solar installation jobs.
887
Using a criteria of short to mid term job creation may not be correct. A lot of Trump voters feel their jobs were shipped out of the country for lower priced goods that created low paying jobs at Walmart (where about 75% of all products sold there have some made in China content). If in the long term this reinvigorates U.S. production and innovation in the solar cells area it could be a good thing. If this is an industry of the future shouldn't we have a shot at making it here?
2
No, American made solar panels will still need to be installed....but you knew that
1
It's not cost-effective. That's why US solar panel manufacturers needed protection.
Bought and paid for by big oil and the koch brothers.
56
Another embarrassing day in America.
20
He pushes coal and offshore drilling while undermining our domestic ability to produce solar power products. This is supreme idiocy.
32
Can you not read? This move is to invigorate the American solar industry!
The folks at the Chinese company Haier must be smiling as they bought GE's appliance division.
10
What about his cheap imported Chinese jewelry?
8
Duh, another really dumb and regressive move by Trump. He must not have been paying attention in his business classes at Wharton.
7
@Birdy: He hasn't been paying attention since he was born!
3
There goes my $300 whopper of an income-tax break.
117
Fine, we can agree Trump has improved the economy, but slapping tariffs on imports is moving in the totally wrong direction.
4
Washing machines? A bit random. Solar panels? Not so random. That’s a nod to his buddies in the coal and other non-renewable energy industries. So shallow. So predictable. So sad.
171
As long as unions are calling the shots, manufacturing is NOT coming back to the US. You can't justify paying someone $100K plus to do rote assembly and packaging of products.
So all a tarriff will accomplish is putting the product out of reach of consumers.
This will kill demand, hurting the industry, the consumer and the environment. Hat trick!
Nice work, bumbler in chief.
16
Obvious attempt to kill the thriving solar market, which employs a lot of people in US during installation. And is probably the best hope of cutting greenhouse gas emissions quickly.
Utilities hate solar too, and have been pressuring states to roll back tax incentives. They want to be monopolies, to the extent where they limit your ability to go off grid during power outages, etc. And obviously there is more money to be made as a monopoly.
22
We all want to protect American jobs, but the best way to do that is to support American workers. Mr. Trump does this with his mouth but not with his actions.
Mr. Trump is reducing taxes for himself and his wealthy cronies, reducing American wages (while NOT substantially reducing working class taxes), and increasing the cost of important items such as health care. He and his buddies invest in foreign businesses while ignoring American businesses (other than immediately before elections). Perhaps he thinks that, by being inconceivably erratic and "keeping us guessing", he will win another term.
One crucial matter he has not pursued is to get his cronies to invest in companies in the United States.
11
I have no problem with imposing tariffs, that makes sense but why washing machines and solar panels????? Really? So let me think, you want to reduce the number of solar panels coming in at a decent price, that could certainly help your coal and oil friends, who have been helped over decades... let's help them some more why don't we? How about supporting the U.S. solar companies and assisting them in searching for innovative and more economical alternatives for the U.S. consumer.
16
@Mary: Why washing machines & solar panels? Nobody knows, including Trump!
How about some tariffs on golfing equipment? Maybe he'd notice that.
5
What will Trump do when China imposes restrictions on products "made in USA"?
14
You obviously don't understand trade deficits.
1
Trump will decide what he will do after he wakes up tomorrow.
He will decide what he thinks as soon as Goldman tells him what he thinks.
Who really decided this? Trump sure didn't. Is this politics or business? Are automobiles next? Electronics? What is the long range plan? I bet the White House staff thinks its one thing, solar powered washing machines.
13