I would ask women who, like my wife, didn’t like and would not vote for Trump the same question I asked her: Do you feel the way you do about Trump about Trump alone, or is this the way you pretty much feel about all men? (After a few minutes of trying to argue the former, she admitted it was the latter. I slept on a sofa for a few nights.)
4
"I’m not denying the reality of that racism..."
No? This piece draws a conclusion from incomplete data, and in doing so, completely denies the reality of racism in this administration.
Douthat broadly claims that "[Trump's] opposed by minorities and women and the young", then focuses on the drop in support from women voters versus black voters.
He left out that "94 percent of black women who voted and 68 percent of Hispanic or Latino female voters chose Hillary Clinton, but 53 percent of all white female voters picked Mr. Trump." (NYT, 11-9-2016)
53% of women did not think that Trump was polarizing a year ago, but 94% of black women already did.
Our social problems aren't about which area is starting to lose ground-- it's about where we have already lost the most ground, and making no measurable improvements.
This is White Feminism at its worst.
4
While women may speak against Trump and violent men I don’t believe that they will vote differently unless their representative has been convicted of rape. Multiple accusations against Trump and other politicians will not change women’s votes. A majority of white women voted for Roy Moore and continue to support Al Frankenstein.
1
For all the arguments about overcoming male sexism in gender dating, our sex drive creates gender roles of dominance and submission. The @metoo and the so-called “growing social divide between the sexes” suddenly in the headlines may be a short-lived headline if historical precedents in the Russian and Chinese Revolutions tell us anything, for both movements attempted and failed to create universal gender equality in the workplace and play places.
Even in other communal societies, we see that sexual encounters still involve culturally defined, unequal roles at play, usually with a male lead and a female following (or not following, or leading by appearing only to follow) the male. And when women romantically compete for some men and when men compete for some women, all top-down social prescriptions by the rule books of Antioch, Oprah Winfrey, @Metoo, or the white female dominated opinon and editorial pages of our national media, suddenly disappear.
Both the winning alpha females and their alpha male mates, as on a “Bachelor/Bachelorette” television series, can only smile silently satisfied at the feminist losers while offering their sympathy. The disappointed broken-hearts in romances seldom have a clue of how they lost the mating game, or what it cost the winners. For the feminist enraged, of any orientation, then, it’s sour grapes, or worse. And Tennyson’s “‘Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all” really doesn’t cut it.
A simpler explanation does exist.
The emphasis on women's sexual experiences and on the potential for predatory male behavior has been carefully crafted by cultural leaders opposed to Trump's presidency, in order to be maximally effective in damaging him.
The reason that immigration or civil rights generally have been relatively swept under the rug is that the marketing data suggests these angles won't work.
3
I went to yoga class the other day at the gym. The class was 90% white females. At one point the female instructor mentioned as an aside that women would be marching though the central part of the city this coming Sunday supporting women rights. That got the class going as members shouted out various facts and chants related to #MeToo. A river of female political mobilization was flowing thru the roon. It clearly was not wise for me as a male political scientist to utter words of political caution. I had several similar experiences in the last week, e.g women in the The Post movie cheering for Katharine Graham. What will happen between now and November will be interesting.
4
""But there is strong evidence that our problems with sex and gender and male-female relations are worsening - "
What is this evidence? Why is it "strong"? Sound opinions are drawn from ample evidence.
2
"Don't tell me that two men who deeply disagree with each other can still like each other; that's a fairy tale. Perhaps they would like each other if they kept their opinions to themselves ... But once a quarrel breaks out, it's too late. Not because they believe so firmly in the opinions they defend, but because ... to be proved wrong means for each of them the same thing as losing his honor. Or losing a piece of his own self. The opinion they advocate is itself not all that important to them. But because once they have made this opinion an attribute of their self, attacking it is like stabbing a part of their body." -- Milan Kundera, "Immortality"
That's why few ever admit they were wrong. The same thing is happening with the "Why Did Trump Win?" crowd that happened with the inflation hysterics Krugman complains about. ... No doubt Trumpian racism appealed to many. And yet when many over-50 Hispanic men heard the same thing, they evidently heard something else. When you tell everyday people who voted for Trump for reasons that had nothing to do with race, that a large part of his popularity was based upon racism, they're taken aback and loudly deny it.
As for women's reaction to this imbecile, I'm not surprised by it. I'd be surprised by its absence, though. He's crude and sexist, lecherous and raptorial. They no doubt see him as embodying a desire on the part of some to return to an era they never want to go back to. They know what they don't want more than what they do.
It's hardly surprising that women would be the most sensitive to trump's total lack of character.
Nothing is more glaring about his sick personality than the obvious way he treats women like dirt -And always has.
Millions of men just think he's one of the boys - and as long as he sounds like they do when they're out in their watering holes bashing women and minorities they could care less about his lack of competence.
And then there's fox news of course.
6
I will never understand how any self-respecting woman could ever vote for a man who HATES them. To degrade women like the man in the White House has done on so many occasions in the most vile and extraordinary way, with not only no remorse but rather a sense of glee....this will forever remain one of the political mysteries that cannot possibly have a logical explanation. I could barely listen to that Billy Bush tape when it was broadcast and actually thought that finally the man had gone too far but no, I was wrong in that I underestimated the integrity and intelligence of the American electorate and especially the sensitivity of the female voter whom I expected to react with total abandonment of that man.
5
Nikki Haley for President—- 2024
C’mon ‘feminists’ —- you’d all vote for her, right?
I voted for Obama over Clinton in the 2008 primaries. Does that answer your question?
3
Ya gotta be kidding me...
Kirjsten Nielsen's testimony to Congress was masterful, in its steadiness and self-discipline...
No gender-issue there - and it could just as well have been Nikki Haley testifying...
On the other hand, as Cory Booker launched into a self-serving tirade - rolled my eyes, and then closed them...
Then, an eerie thing happened while listening - race disappeared...
I knew I was listening to a bellicose and bullying NJ pol, playing to the cameras - but couldn't have told one from the other...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/17/cory-booker-slammed-for-mansp...
3
It’s not just Cotton and Perdue and DHS Secretary Nielsen who hallucinate at will....or just lie and lie under oath. Douthat channels Trump (carnage), and Sessions too:
“We don’t know, for instance, what’s happening with the crime rate after the late-Obama-era spike.)
What a bunch of crooks or mad men!
1
Yes, sexism trumps racism. Let people spin it how they will, but a competent black man was elected president over a competent white man. However, a competent white woman could not get elected over a manifestly incompetent white man. I can't see how it could be clearer than this.
16
Macho men, at it again, leave it to them. (Hey, that rhymes!) They like what they see in Trump. The culture(s) that they grew up in are where they learned to like his style, for better or (as in this case) worse. Trouble is, culture doesn't change easily--people in a culture tend to live and breathe it.
2
Doubling down on identity politics, again, is a dangerous gamble because subjugated “isms” Dems champion end up canalizing each other.
For example, my feminist counterpart at work stews when Linda Sarsour is speaking at the women’s march or when whiney when woman equate sexual assault with rude comments. Trump’s misogyny? Her direct quote “women sometimes marry and judge over money alone. Trump is gross but he talks about tangible issues, like supporting Israel. Democrats treat us like children.”
Plus, her husband’s Nigerian immigrant family voted for Trump specifically to vote against amnesty. They both have J.D from Yale. . .first time voting GOP for President.
My neighbors, both gay, cannot stand Democrats incessant moralizing on Islam. They accused me of being anti-gay for supporting more Islamic refugees. LOL. Both Trump supporters.
I’d like to believe the Dems will recover. . .but I worry identity politics is poisoning the party.
4
This seems to me like the "ostrich column," where the author decides to deliberately burry his head in the sand and somehow pretend away a reality he doesn't want.
It is truly improvisational!!
It sounds like the equivalent of the Soviets and Cubans deciding that abolishing talk of the problem of racism is equivalent to ending racism!!!
Pretend away the problem, if you can't solve it!!!
It sounds like the final triumph of the American mind, if one may: just don't talk about it, since we don't want to or can't deal with it!!
Ironically, this comes at precisely the time an overtly racist white man occupies the presidency, and who recently plainly finally uncovered his true racist self, for those for whom it was stubbornly unclear from his prior utterances during his tenure so far. Astonishingly, even then, some continue to refuse the self evident, just because the political entertainment that passes for civic information refuses to include it on its daily playlists!!
It's truly is a uniquely American coup of the mind, i think!!
2
Before I'd trust these "surveys" I'd like to see the questions and how they were posed. Hard to believe that support even among black men could rise. The ability of people to believe a charlatan, a know nothing, an insulting, belittling creep of a person is astonishing. Even more remarkable is how the value of the Repubican Congress has shrunk and the word of the Court is also held in less esteem because the guy who heads the team is vile, but everyone is frightened of him and it shows! It's how authoritarians rule. No mystery here, friends. Watch Melania. She knows him best and you hardly every see her smile. She always looks as though she's tasted something sour for lunch and it's still there. That's how we'll all look in another year: as though we've gotten something sour for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
2
Nah, it's because the male of the species can be easily scammed while the human female is more discerning.
3
Or - the survey itself, as is common to the breed, is influenced by (to the point of being of product of) what the media is focusing people's attention on. The media's most favored cause is feminism - no need for problems like how to fix the economy in coal country so ordinary people can survive as you destroy Big Coal there. Instead media focuses on, for example, subsidizing the bait and switch tactics of #metoo. Their intent is to inculcate an ideology that makes someone male inherently guilty by virtue of their being tarred by accusation, so that the only claim to innocence on the part of any man or boy, charged or uncharged, is 'getting with the program' -
in other words, obsequious bowing and scraping to the 'women are morally superior, men are guilty and venal' attitude. If questions are raised over presuming guilt, or how many men actually EVER pat a woman's rear, regardless of their opinion of feminism, or whether drunken campus sex should always be the boy's responsibility, however the girl wants to interpret it, then suddenly the concern is really about male sex extortion at work (never mentioning the reverse). And never talk about the pervasive malice in K-12 of female (and their male co-dependents) teachers towards boys who commit the sins of being high iq, moral, and insufficiently obsequious to the attitude I mentioned above. What if the struggles of poor people didn't have to be specifically the struggles of women for the media to focus our attention on them?
5
I am not surprised at all by Douthat’s observation that in terms of the culture right now, certainly as the media is portraying it, gender issues are far exceeding racial issues in terms of national attention. And since I see racism as by far the bigger problem -- even if statistics indicate some improvement – I find it very hard to be gung-ho about a movement that casts me, my sons, my grandsons, my male friends, and, in fact, every American male, whether of color or white, as the enemy unless he can prove otherwise.
5
Three days ago Ross wrote a column that claimed that liberalism, in the sense of democracy, free speech, free markets, etc.was dead and calling for a Bannon like ethno nationalist workers state. In light of that column this one makes sense. Race doesn't matter to Ross only in the sense that he is ok with the white nationalist appeals of those he calls "populists". Class matters little because Ross values "workers" only in the same way Mussolini (who he endorses in the article) did, as an expression of communal unity. Ross can celebrate the MeToo movement because it arrives at the view of sex within marriage and women as victims that he comes to through his faith, a faith that he and only he imposes on the readers of the Times every week. There is a term for the position he has arrived at, Clerico-Fascism and it was the route by which 100's of thousands of Jews and others were murdered in Austria, Tiso's Slovakia and the Ustacha regime in Croatia. Actually Ross problem with Trump is that he is not authoritarian enough for his tastes.
1
The last thing Ross's last column called for was an "ethno nationalist workers' state." I wonder if it's a matter of you not understanding, or not having bothered to actually read, his op-ed.
And he "imposes" his religious sensibilities by writing his column once a week? Who knew that the mere expression of religiously informed values was an "imposition"?
4
I find that there is something wrong in river city. Yes men inordinately control too much ,but women have incredulous power in their hands. The newest minority,not in numbers but dwindling power are men. Look at the 1% dominance of women in numbers, the 11% dominance in higher education. So,women , why haven't you flexed your political power? Women are part of our "new" immigrant culture, the geographical immigrants (traditional) , LGBT immigrants , people of color immigrants, the non-Christian immigrants, & the non-religious Immigrants . To be an immigrant ,you just have to aspire for equality in a pre-judging society. And ,yes, pre-judging just means prejudice, bigotry ,sexism & racism. So we are all immigrants ,wishing to escape one or more pre judgements of who we are & people wanting to limit the rights of others. Simplest solution? Vote. And vote again & again. The greatest social criminals in our society are not those who speak or do evil or prejudice,but those who do not vote. A crime against humanity in its billions of forms. So the greatest migration for equality & liberation should be to the polls. See you in 2018!
2
The recent movements referenced in this opinion piece have noble ideas and impetus but quickly devolved into mere mob mentality. Mobs are where nuance and facts get trampled under foot.
2
Ross would have been better off doing his column on how the Aziz Ansari thing is more evidence for reverting to the 1950s sexual mores Ross reveres. Instead he overthinks and overwrites to draw dubious conclusions about Trump’s poll numbers. The bigger picture shows Trump’s approval down across numerous demographic and political subgroups. If his approval rate isn’t down among black adults, it’s because it was negligible to begin with. Rather than divine which groups contribute the most to Trump’s poor approval ratings, he’d better off looking at why those groups that have stuck with Trump despite it all have done so. I guess it’s not as interesting blaming disfavor of Trump on MeToo or gender politics.
Douthat argues that the metoo movement has eclipsed blacklivesmatter. And is that our fault, dear readers? That is a media issue. Just as the media created and shaped the Trump presidency with its collective choice to cover his "campaign" more than other, better qualified candidates. Now the media has moved on. That doesn't mean we have.
The 99% matter - all of us. And despite your assessment that because the MEDIA cover assault against beautiful, white women more than assault against poor black and brown people, that doesn't mean the rest of us don't care about both. Give women their moment to make their points and then watch us vote.
3
The real problem, which you don't discuss, is, as always, class. And our gender problems could be seen as a function of class--women have vastly less money and power than men.
In this age of homelessness and medical bankruptcy, what we need most is a new war on poverty. And few besides Sen. Sanders, andhenot enough, are addressing this need.
3
I agree with you, except that "gender problems" are interpersonal and not the same as class or economic conflicts.
2
Anyone who voted for Trump hoping that he'd bring about a change for the better was mistaken. He is moving the country backwards and that is untenable. It's not the 1950s or the 1850s or even the 1780s any longer. It's 2018 and the United States is in danger of falling far behind the rest of the civilized world in many things. Trump is the symptom of a larger problem in this country. That problem began when we elected Ronald Reagan as president.
The other problem: it's time we acknowledged how much the history of slavery in America has colored our views towards African Americans, Asians, and anyone who is not white, Christian, and born here. We cannot afford to continue indulging ourselves with policies that do not help most Americans no matter what their backgrounds are. Our constant mantra that someone has to worthy of help before they get it hurts the people that need the help. We are still practicing what George Orwell wrote about in "Animal Farm". To paraphrase: all humans are equal but some are more equal than others. This does not make America a place of hope, equality, or worth dreaming about.
7
Excuse me, but Asians were not slaves in the US (though some Asians WERE slaves in Asia). And slavery ended in 1865. Racial discrimination/exclusion is illegal access to employment, housing, education, health care, transportation etc.
Remember the “Jim Crow” laws, Martin Luther King, Jr., the Civil Rights laws passed in the1960s? Slavery may have ended in 1865 but American black citizens were not treated as equal citizens. As a country, we have never honestly admitted and apologized for the black American experience.
4
I think that Douthat is missing out on the race discussion because of where your discussions are situated. Race is a big driver of the Trump resistance -- the diminishing media attention associated to the Black Lives Matter movement, doesn't mean that the battle isn't being fought on many shifting battlegrounds that are being fought (on DACA, Islamic-Americans, BLM, . . .). People are truly fearful of a destruction of the ideals of the America that "never has been yet, and yet must be." Pointing towards economic gains (or, my, not imprisoning black men) made by African-Americans doesn't change the growing battle for full inclusion and equality. To the extent that white women power a resistance, I would argue that economic resources are the most important, not the desire to resist.
"But there is strong evidence that our problems with sex and gender and male-female relations are worsening — which is why it’s understandable that they’re at the heart of how the country has reacted to the Trump presidency, and fitting that this year of public protests and intimate revelations have thrown them into sharp relief."
All this while Republicans are striving to return America to a social/economic analogue of the late 19th century and generating little, if any, news/analytical coverage in any media.
Can you say "red herring"?
Trying to explain the revulsion that the majority of Americans feel toward the Republican Congress and Presidency on racism vs sex is a vast over-simplification.
The revulsion is due to the moral bankruptcy of the modern Republican Party, not to just a few deficits.
4
The real problem here is that single women threaten the Patriarchy and its control over women. Race, color, or creed doesn’t matter. The patriarchy can’t survive without the subjugation of all women.
Patriarchy is also threatened by gay, lesbian, or trans people, since their gender is considered fluid. Can’t control what you can’t specify.
It’s all about control – social, economic, and physical control. Single women dare to give the middle finger salute to control. Marriage? No thanks. Tried it twice and hated it both times. My choice to remain single mirrors others who have decided that being single is far preferable to being trapped in an institution that benefits men more.
It isn’t worth being married just for the stats. If you’re in it for the numbers, you’re measuring the wrong thing, and you’re in it for the wrong reasons.
Ross, get a clue. Move on. Your Patriarchal philosophy will not survive. We are at the beginning of a greater understanding that the value of relationships, whether marriage or friendships, begins with equality and mutual respect for our basic humanity. Patriarchy, especially Trumpism, can’t grant either.
2
Ross,
I have watching and all I can say is cynicism is growing stronger and democracy is growing smaller as truth becomes more allusive.
America's evolution toward democracy is in reverse as the lies about what drove European immigration get ever more distorted.
We came because the 1% owned everything and all we could do in Europe is subsist.
If I here one more false comment about the Irish Starvation I will explode. Ireland had lots of food but the 1% with the help of the parliament at Westminster decided not to feed its poor. Ireland exported food and 60% had all the food they could buy only the poor starved and the disappearance of 75% of the impoverished population was deliberate. While the poor of Ireland were deported the migration of people like my great grandparents was economic in origin and the 1% owned everything.
Today we call this economic system neoliberalism. It is the ideology of the USA and it is why democracy is dying.
It is the insatiable greed that drives your country that has created your problems. Liberalism created wealth and equality. What you call conservatism is the distillation of greed to excuse the pain and misery of what we now call neoliberalism.
Sexism, racism, socialism, capitalism and libertarianism are a deflection from the truth. It is all about insatiable greed.
8
Has this data been controlled for age?
2
Hello, where were you in the 2016 election? That was always, and heavily, about gender. Specifically, about misogyny: from the smears thrown at Hillary, to the ridiculously lopsided media (see Matt Lauer), to the stalking she endured from her opponent during one of the debates — does anyone really think Trump would have done that to a male candidate? Or if he did, that a moderator wouldn’t have thought it inappropriate, stepped in and done his job to ask him to knock it off?
And on the other side, the vicious, abusive Bernie bros, whose activities were winked at by another male candidate, whose stated position was that women’s reproductive rights are “negotiable” in his quest to attract and appease white males.
Yep, white women made excuses for it all, and many voted for Trump — in part, I think, because they were telling the truth when they said they saw no problems with his words or behaviour because the men in their lives acted the same way. That makes me sad.
But the media handwringing now about “gender” — ie misogyny — makes me furious. The time to call it out was prior to November 2016.
7
But, Trump won middle class white women....
3
A majority of white women voted for Trump. I'm still trying to understand this.
1
Sex/Gender was probably a bigger factor in motivating older white men and their allies than race yes. Many in that demographic see themselves as victims. Women are a better "fit" in the office/retail service economy than older men. These men saw women on the ascent and themselves on the descent as a group. They saw HRC as a huge threat that would make the situation for them much worse. As someone who would favor her group (women) over men (true or not). Older white men especially. The election was a call to arms essentially.
1
Is there any excuse--statistical, political, philosophical, emotional--a white male conservative won't use to argue that (1) racism in America is no big deal; and (2) even if it is a big deal, there's worse stuff to worry about.
To quote Charles Pierce, "These really are mole people."
2
These differences in Trump approvals relate directly to gender. Trump has shown that while he disrespects every race but white, he disrespects women so much more than men that within every racial division, Trump will be even less approved-of by women. With Trump, while he's clearly biased on race, he is even more visible in his disparagement of women's equality (despite his certain protest that "nobody has ever been more equal with women that I am, ever" just as nobody, ever has been less bigoted, less racist, and so forth. Trump knows that ultimately gender inequality is about power, not race. Trump protects the traditional power of men over women, while he also attempts to protect the racist power of white men over every other minority, men and women both. Trump is clearly and obviously racist, bigoted, and just as clearly and obviously has been a sexual predator.
3
This column is thought-provoking at best and misleading and superficial by and large. Throwing a few stats, Ross undermines the economic inequality gap widening and placed at the bottom among the so-called developed economies. BLM didn't "recede" but evolved, triggering or inspiring other like-minded movements. Sure, with Hillary Clinton's unexpected loss to an unqualified and misogynistic and racist business elite (rather, fraud), she has become a martyr for numerous enlightened, empowered, and "nasty" women to rise up and march. At the same time, hedonistic and spoiled white women married to or related to privileged white men still didn't want to face the war between sexes and hop off their comfy and posh sofa to join the women's uprising. Of course, many women in their poverty-stricken misery and fear (or because of it) stood by the deceitful and foul-mouthed alpha white man (now, POTUS), probably because they wanted other privileged women to feel their pain. In any case, class is still, and even more so, a major issue after the election. His campaign promises were "jettisoned," making the class inequality an ongoing issue and, once the "honeymoon" period is over and the poor get the memo (that they have been duped), we'll have a full-blown class war. In Alabama's contested senate election, only 34% or so white women voted for the anti-Trump candidate, if I'm not mistaken. Wake up and do some soul searching, white women!
I am a cynic, but a lot of my cynicism is borne out by reality. Media exposes generally highlight a small number of injustices of a specific sort that have little staying power. Because they are generated by a few reporters, rather than the public at large, they are of limited effect. Officer involved interracial shootings are no longer front and center. Nor are abuses by prison guards or the bail system or assault weapons, or cutbacks in abortion clinics or transgender bathrooms. Sexual harassment is likely to go the same route.
Real change is initiated by great leaders who adopt great causes, like Martin Luther King, Susan B. Anthony, Harriet Tubman, and Mahatma Gandhi. Newspapers are best at reporting the news. Changing the world is generally not their thing. There are exceptions -- the Catholic church and Watergate, for example.
When a newspaper brings down an institution, a quality movie generally follows. Until there is a movie about sexual harassment, my guess is that this is one more transient trend that has been falsely pumped up as a fundamental reform against injustice.
1
Always a caveat with Mr. Douthat. I often see a veiled twist in his columns that reveal more about him than about us. He starts out as anti-Trump and agrees Trump is a racist. Then goes off the rails in the "war between the sexes". Revealing injustice and power inequalities in our society is like peeling an onion
There are many levels and groups exposed as we dig further to further our democratic ideal of true equality. It might have been Hillary's loss that incited this new wave, but it has been a long time coming. Can he say that woman have been treated fairly, in jobs, schools, Hollywood, life? The subtext of Trump's rise with Black men is that there is a lot of sexism among them, I am sorry to say. They recognize a fellow sexist. As the conversation about equality has spread, American women demanded their turn. Note: Spike in crime during Obama administration- Opioid epidemic and resultant social breakdown.
2
White women have ALWAYS felt the sense of marginalization and dis-empowerment, LONG before T came along.
Such a ridiculous statement that he alone has made white women feel badly.
White women and minorities have held a common bond for a long while. It may be unspoken but it's there.
4
Sex in America is a "battle" between the sexes. Just like the society wants a "war" against drugs, or poverty, or the swamp-dwellers in Washington. People seem to turn everything into a contentious me-versus-you dynamic which I find to be highly stupid. We should take a page from French culture.
7
The only question remaining for Trump's legacy is which of the two is more extreme: His bigotry or his misogyny? Wait - they are not mutually exclusive. He's a bigoted misogynist.
4
As a Latin-American immigrant I think it is necessary to emphasize (again) that the category “Hispanic” does not apply to a race. I am not surprised, as Mr. Douthat, who chooses the term “strikingly”, seems to be, by the fact that “among Hispanic men older than 50, Trump’s approval exceeded 40 percent”.
Social classes in Latin America, strongly correlated with race, stand wide apart. The Spanish conquest created that chasm and it has persisted, so the cognitive dissonance that constitutes the main basis for the racist prejudice is firmly entrenched in our societies. I would assume that the “surprising” high approval ratings of Mr. Trump among those Hispanics represent the same proportion of racist people that we have in our countries against the so called “Indians”.
5
Trump's abuse victims, like all victims, should be heard and should be applauded. They give courage to other victims. I was repeatedly molested by my aunt when i was a small child. I felt so alone, and wish this movement had happened years ago. Maybe i would have felt able to speak up, and would have endured less pain. Many will be surprised as more men begin to come forward with stories like mine. Boys make up 1/3 of child victims. They and their attackers should not be ignored.
6
Thank you for your post. I am very sorry about the abuse you suffered. Males definitely have been ignored as sexual abuse and rape victims. Their numbers have been greatly underestimated, in part because our culture makes it much less likely that a male will report being raped or go to a hospital unless he has suffered a serious physical injury. Even then, they will focus on the injury, not the rape. Men can be raped by other men, and not just in prison. A woman who gets raped faces some stigma if she doesn't show obvious defensive wounds, but for the man, there is much greater stigma -- why didn't he fight off his attacker? Did he really want it? -- even if his attacker had a weapon or there were multiple attackers involved. If he is gay, there can be even more judgment, as if gay men were not entitled to say no, or to have caring, loving sexual relationships rather than abusive ones. Both victims of pedophiles and victims of adult male sexual abuse need to be acknowledged and heard. I have found that some of our strongest male allies in the #metoo movement have been men , gay or straight, who have suffered similar abuse.
1
During the civil rights movement, our problems with race relations were worsening. "They" were being stirred up by outside agitators (Yankees and Jews and Communists -- just ask Roy Moore), and long-established patterns of social tranquillity were being disrupted.
2
Don’t call women “the female of the species” ever again.
14
It's a legitimate literary reference to several published works, film and book titles, pop music etc. it is not a put down.
2
It's a poetic allusion. Kipling.
1
Just because it's a literary reference does not make it legitimate.
Women are people. It's past time we start respecting them as such.
2
Isn't it funny, Mr. Douthat, that you think the relationship between men and women is worsening where I believe it's improving because women are speaking up and asking, nay demanding, to be treated fairly, and men are listening.
Many men I know have said about the #metoo movement that they had no idea what women have been going through. The example of the horrible sexual abuse of the female gymnasts by the team doctor -- up to 140 at this point -- wouldn't be talked about were it not for this movement.
I am reminded of Chief of Staff Kelly waxing poetic last fall about how women were placed on a pedestal in his day, this from a man who maligned Congresswoman Frederica Wilson while he went on and on -- he lied about her in a press conference -- and then never apologized when video footage came out disproving his statements about her. Mind you this is also from a man who works for a president who allegedly called Sally Yates the C word, paid off a porn actress, bragged about grabbing women, etc., etc., etc.
There were no good old days.
Women and African Americans and Hispanics, and on and on, do not care for President Trump.
So, I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, right, Mr. Douthat?
12
Funny, but I know a lot of women who enjoyed their lives, marriages, and friendships during the 50's, 60's and 70's.
1
"Meanwhile among minorities he’s made gains or held his own by appealing primarily to men, while remaining extraordinarily unpopular with black and Hispanic women."
Being a black man myself, this sentence (assuming it's accurate) sits like a stone in my stomach. Trump's idea of manhood is as counterfeit as the hair on his head. Weakness (physical and moral) and fear are the defining characteristics of Donald J. Trump. He shields himself behind an army of patsies, NEVER taking responsibility for any negative outcome or situation. For all Trump's talk of loyalty, he would (and has) turned on long-time supporters at the drop of a hat. Trump lashes out at everyone, but his favorite targets are those with the least power to fight back: minorities, refugees, the poor, the disenfranchised, the disempowered, the ostracized.
And then there's his infantile fascination with the military. Having begged out of actual service and avoided any kind of sacrifice for his country, Trump routinely slanders those who have made such sacrifices. McCain: insulted for being captured and tortured at the hands of U.S. enemies. Gold Star family: personally attacked for daring to contradict Trump. Widow of a fallen soldier: slandered as a liar for daring to relay Trump's own words. Even Gen. Kelly has said that UNTIL TRUMP, he had never been so disrespected by anyone in his 35 years of service.
Whatever it "means" to be a man... Trump is not it. No man should rally to his cause.
12
Male/female relations are certainly changing; whether they're worsening or improving is harder to say and depends on your perspective. From where I sit, more women than ever before are seeking and succeeding in higher education, earning Bachelor's, Master's, professional, and Doctoral degrees at rates approaching or even exceeding those of men. Combined with an economy shifting away from traditional "men's" work and toward work that has more been traditionally "women's," that is changing the power differential in households across the country. Never before have so many women been the sole, or higher-earning, breadwinner in their families. And contrary to the old commercial, when a woman brings home the bacon she will not be content to be told to shut up, cook it, wash the dishes, and get in bed. The outrage has always been there, but it's that nascent sense of power that makes us feel entitled to speak up and demand change.
Another thing Ross misses about the middle aged white female backlash -- cuts in social services, like those the Republicans in Congress are shoving down our throats, tend to fall heavily on that demographic, which often has the responsibilities of caring for children and aging parents or struggling to make ends meet on a single income. White women may have voted for Trump when they thought the blows would fall on others, but finding their own benefits in the crosshairs changes the calculation.
9
Of all the group's that Trump should have left alone, it's women. Forgive and forget? Not likely. Women never forget and 11/6 isn't that far away. It will be the supreme irony when an avalanche of silly pink hats descend on polling places and, overwhelmingly set in motion the process that will ultimately drive Trump from office in disgrace. And the soundtrack to his exit will be the words of the great American orator, Madonna, as she do eloquently put forth our position at last year's women's march.
1
Trump is a kind of catalyst, possibly for good, at underscoring how rampant sexual harassment and assault is, probably always has been. But with Trump and his tackiness, his third-rate view of everything valuable, his trivialization of significant things throw into relief the plain truth: some clueless men behave badly toward women or vulnerable men, simply because they can. Or could. Time's up.
It's not the end of "wooing" [Douthat reads too many bodice busters] and it's not the end of love between people. Sexual harassment and assault have little or nothing to do with sex, but rather with power, and nothing whatsoever to do with love.
1
Just too bad that Women can't be treated as they are in your Church. Right, Sir??? Maybe Women shouldn't be allowed to VOTE.
4
White women have a lot of cultural and economic freedom to ignore politics, or just nod and smile and follow the lead of the men in their lives. There is a lot of pressure to minimize conflict at all costs. I am sure that contributed to Trump's election. As white women learn things they really should have known before the election, they are moving to a political position aligned with their interests. As just one example, those photos of 30+ men and maybe one woman deciding that future of healthcare in this country should be "every man for himself" speak louder than words on an issue that affects women deep in their everyday lives.
5
One thing's become clear in the Doug Jones AL Senate race was that it was the black women vote (both in turnout and in solidarity) that tipped the scales toward Doug Jones. I think this is a trend that will continue into 2018; more women will vote, speak out and become politically active. There will also be an increase in female candidates as well. All part of the Women's empowerment movement...
3
At the heart of the gender divide is a technological driver. Gender divisions evolved due to biological imperatives - females birthed and tended children, manual work required male muscles. In my lifetime, I have witnessed the invention of reliable contraceptives and the mutation of "work" into something requiring brains, not brawn. This is a time of social disruption. Men are having to rechannel their assertive tendencies into mental gymnastics and women are being challenged to better balance their receptiveness with assertiveness and self-reliance. Each of us regardless of gender must change our sociology and psychology to meet the changing demands of how technology affects our individual and collective lives. At the heart of the gender divide is a technological driver. Gender divisions evolved due to biological imperatives - females birthed and tended children, manual work required male muscles. In my lifetime, I have witnessed the invention of reliable contraceptives and the mutation of "work" into something requiring brains, not brawn. This is a time of social disruption. Men are having to rechannel their assertive tendencies into mental gymnastics and women are being challenged to better balance their receptiveness with assertiveness and self-reliance. Each of us regardless of gender must change our sociology and psychology to meet the changing demands of how technology affects our individual and collective lives.
3
While Trump's misogyny and revelations about such monsters as Weinstein lit the fuse, this goes far deeper than that.
Someone else commented that women want to be treated "more like men supposedly treat one another." I disagree. They of course want fairness: equal respect, credit and pay for equal work, equal opportunity.
But it’s exactly that women ARE being treated like “one of the guys,” which has resulted in a deep sense of dislocation, confusion and unhappiness among women (and men). Indeed, while many received gender roles are in fact social constructs, we’ve gone so far as to assert that biology accounts for nothing, that there is no fundamental difference between what women and men need and can provide each other.
While a huge amount of paternalism and sexism has been slayed, women are more overworked, suffer far more unkindness, treated more boorishly, and are less economically secure than ever before. "Hook-ups" have replaced romance and long term commitment. Chivalry is considered paternalism. Real, in-home fatherhood - and with it a teammate to do the hardest and most important job - has been reduced to an anachronistic option for the modern woman.
Since feminism has declared men to be a vestigial organ that has the ability to go bad someday, like an appendix, men have not only been removed from the equation of improving women’s lives, but left off the hook. Indeed, women ARE being treated just like one of the guys. But the men are now all frat boys.
3
I completely agree with you.
This is the real deal. A cultural revolution is taking place. Trump did well with some segments of white women which surprised people and hurt H. Clinton at the polls. But now abuse and disrespect of men for women is being addressed in a very serious manner. Women felt powerless against sexual misconduct by powerful men like Weinstein because he could seriously hurt their career and Weinstein was too well connected. He's gone. The dominoes are falling. Its outrageous that Trump bragged that he could abuse women and get away with it because he was a big shot celebrity.
5
True, but at the same time Weinstein was vulnerable because of his celebrity and the field in which he worked. He was famous, so people paid attention to the allegations about him. He was in Hollywood, which attempts to portray itself in a progressive light, so once it was out in the open his peers cared. I am less certain this movement will do anything for the millions of women who toil in low status, anonymous jobs, where no one will pay attention to a tweet about them on social media. Who will pay attention if a waitress says she was abused by her manager at a fast food joint? If a cleaning lady is harassed by her boss, unless he is famous enough to be shamed and face a backlash, what will happen? Until sexual harassment and abuse are addressed at the bottom of the economic ladder, the battle will not be won. It's great that actresses being abused by famous and rich men are getting their due, but that's not where the worst suffering lies.
Once again Ross trots out his standard agenda, get married, make babies and all will be right with the world..
5
we can solve all problems in the united states be continuing the onslaught of 3rd world immigration , feminism and homosexuality . hopefully to rid ourselves of the evil white working class non jewish male who benefits from his white privilege over all the poor oppressed jewish minority who simply don't have enough power to control everything. The never ending promotion of division will continue to assure that the US , Canada , and Europe will resemble Haiti or some other less than desirable place in years to come . Global Oligarchy prospers as it divides you up in race , gender, and sexuality and leaves you with nothing and decimates you sovereignty. Who are these global oligarchs what do they look like ? What sex are they ? What religion are they ? Who do they sleep with ? Whites males I am told but of what distinction would that be?
The crime rate has declined because of the many states legalizing marijuana and those (like Louisiana) that have actually released many prisoners before their terms were up because of basic over crowding in the prisons. More selection is taking place in the criminal sphere.
2
The violent crime rate has NOT declined.
The violent crime rate has NOT declined.
This column is a cure for insomnia. The writer has a talent. The ability to spew hundreds of words and say absolutely nothing original or meaningful. What a waste of time.
2
Trump is the poster boy for a certain group of misogynistic, self-serving Luddites who by ganging up, managed to elect him. The Democrat Party, splintered by various "causes" needs to look at the bigger picture. The issue we want to see corrected (equal rights for everyone) should be the clarion call for us to find better leaders in our own party. If they don't exist, let's start a new one. Where is it written that we can only have two major political parties? Perhaps both of ours have outlived their usefulness and are no longer relevant to today's needs.
2
Well here is an old white guy who is totally devoid of any niceness towards the buffoon in the white house or any of his gang of perpetrators from Pruitt to Zinke and the whole bunch. Together they are a Terrestrial Horror Show.
3
Interesting. "Something is badly out of joint with male-female relations, our ability to woo and be wooed, our capacity to successfully and happily pair off. "
Right on bro, the "castrate them all" hysteria will result in a lot more single with pets.
If it came to a choice between you or a dog, the dog would easily win hands down. Why do you assume "single with pets" poses a threat to women? There are worse alternatives, such as living with a man like you.
Reading way too much into the data. Broad demographic trends are a thing of the past. Charting people’s perceptions, their biases, their group identification and their projected voting patterns—as well as their social interactions—can’t be done anymore with simple cross-tabs of age, race, sex and socioeconomic status. That’s why so many (less sophisticated) pollsters are failing to accurately predict Brexit, Trump, and pretty much every election in recent years. Our current chaotic cultural moment (the 1960s on steroids further roiled by social media) has been building for a while. Trump just turned it fully into Hieronymus Bosch’s vision of Hell. Everything Ross wrote could be upended completely by the end of the month. If we could turn back to core values—dignity, honesty, decency, compassion—and restore some respect for public service and embrace the better angels of our nature, we might be able to weather the storm. The age of posturing punditry is over. Ross will be better served by empiricism than by wishful (or fearful) hypothesizing.
4
Mr. Douthat:
Yes, it's true: this culture suffers from many kinds of oppression. It is also apparently true that you appear to be setting any push back led by females up for an "I told you so"in the future.
1
Society changes when women get mad enough to push back. We saw it with the push for the right to vote, we saw it in Europe with the labor movement, we saw it during the push for equal rights and we're seeing it now. The election of someone as disgusting and disrespectful as Donald Trump was the straw that broke the camel's back. Never before has a president been so reviled that every state and every continent protested jointly.
As for sex trumping race, you're comparing apples and oranges. Trump is an equal opportunity hater and while 53% of white women voted for him, the rest of us joined minorities in saying hell no.
Society is at a turning point. Women are empowered in a way they haven't been in a generation. The #metoo movement and black lives matter movement are now entwined. Hopefully we don't have another Phyllis Schlafly step up and sabotage us and keep us from pushing for equality.
4
Why is Ross Douthat even given space to spew his unbelievably messed up perspective in the NYTs? He can't even find accurate statistics in support of his retrograde points of view. We have to wonder, does he even read the NYTs?
Anyone stupid enough to claim Trump's approval has increased among blacks rates being carted off to the booby hatch.
I've long been disappointed in the op-ed section here. Especially when we lost Bob Herbert and Frank Rich who both brought some energy to the section. Now we have Douthat and his very messed up internal battle to reconcile his personal nonsense with a world he will never understand. Brooks in some weird Arthurian Legend having little to do with the real world. Krugman with all of his mouthing of the progressive platform that died the minute someone with the guts to actually prepose real reform speaks up. Then there is Charles Blow and Maureen Dowd who are very different except that they are both broken records playing the same thing over and over. Friedman, while insightful and intelligent is permanently lost in the firmament of his own greatness that requires ignoring all the times he has been wrong. Then there is Egan who lost his mojo in last years election ad has little hope of getting it back. Collins is too worn out to be funny anymore. Half of it is because some idiot made her partner with conservatives. Then we have the two newbies, Weiss and Goldberg who reverse directions every other column. Out of space. Peace out.
3
Although Ross Douthat has raised some very interesting points, I wonder whether he is not conflating two quite different facets of anti-Trump feelings in women. The suburbia primarily white middle /upper class women are repulsed by the boorishness of the present occupant of the White House whereas the #metoo movement spearheaded by young professional may be hostile to Trump but their target is much broader. After all Harvey Weinstein was a major Democratic party donor embraced by the high and mighty of the party such as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.
In a recent article (in French) in Le Monde, the novelist and essayist Belinda Cannone suggested that a way to reduce perceived sexual harassment for the women is for them to change the rules of the game of seduction by taking active role in it. As the title of the article says " the day when the women will feel authorized to express their desire, they will cease to be the prey". She was however talking more about miscommunication between the sexes rather than domination a la Harvey Weinstein. Moreover, this may be a very French solution.
http://abonnes.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2018/01/09/le-jour-ou-les-femmes...
1
The reason why the MeToo and Pussy Hat movements have hit full throttle is not just because Trump is so abhorrent, but also with the loss of Hillary Clinton in November women in this country no longer feel obligated to any longer carry the baggage of Bill Clinton. For 20 years feminists and liberals have been handcuffed by the legacy of Bill Clinton's misogyny in combination with trying to get Hillary Clinton elected president. Ironically, Hillary's loss in 2016 freed women to no longer carry water for Bill Clinton's bad behavior toward women, and say what they have wanted to say all along, which is that a whole lot of men have been behaving very badly, and they have had it.
The Womens Movement is back, baby!
3
How could sex have trumped race when we had our first-ever black president BEFORE our best-ever chance for a woman president lost to a racist who succeeded at convincing Obama supporters that she was a crook?
3
I had to hold my nose while voting HRC not because she was accused of being a crook, but because she is and was a confirmed war monger; and a terrible manager of her campaign as well as she departments and projects she led.
I would argue that media coverage of the #Me,too movement is "sexier" than race relations and that neither sexism nor racism is going away any time soon.
Mr. Douthat, your Y chromosome is showing. Just like white men, many Hispanic and African American men are sexist and (yes) approve of Trump's misogyny, which shows itself in just about every move he makes. And what these polls show is that, no matter their race, many men tend to like Trump's "macho", if totally empty, words that threaten other politicians and foreign countries. Contrary to what Trump seems to believe, this type of chest-thumping behavior is not attractive to most women, especially women old enough to vote. In fact, I believe that most women see this behavior as threatening to the safety of people in general and to people in this country in particular. This is not sex trumping race. This is sex trumping Trump.
12
Well, Ross, with the NYT celebrating “the golden age of drag” at the top,of today’s front page, do you think our culture leaders might be preoccupied with sexual confusion?
1
Sex trumps race? Really? I beg to differ. Case in point: Hillary versus Barack. Hillary versus Bernie. Hillary versus Trump. When exactly did you conclude sex takes precedent over race or more importantly, gender. When an absolute idiot came come within three million votes by the American people when running against the most qualified female ever to seek the presidency, I think you've jumped the gun. The MeToo movement may be au courant but it's far from reaching its apex. Let's run that Hillary/Trump race again in 2020, and watch how once again it will bring out the Hillary haters in droves, no matter the harm Trump is doing. Care for a rerun?
DD
Manhattan
4
I think Trump checks the boxes on all of em. Sexism is part of the shtick. Let's just vote him out!!!
3
Trump epitomizes sound bites removed from fact and focused on the reptilian brain. Ross is helping him out.
4
Ross. Did you really want to write the flabby first and second paragraphs? The definition of burying the lede.
2
Come on now.
Defeat of healthcare, tax relief for the rich, defeating gun control legislation, education for the rich have one ingredient combining them all and that is race.
Gender issues are important and they require attention and addressing but racism, Ross, that is what is taking our country down.
The black man and the Hispanic are being priced out of the American dream. And, if poor white America - and America as a whole - suffers then so be it. Fix the opioid epidemic? Not a chance. Allow poor and vulnerable to prosper and enter the middle class? Not a chance. Keep them down and out of my gated community.
Since Bill Clinton, white neighborhoods began seeing an insertion of vital African-Americans into the American dream. The alarm went off, the tocsin sounding heavily on Fox. After Obama became president it has been a war of beating back non-white aspirants to the dream ever since.
With Fox News marketing the sell of the American dream to Wall St and with an ignorant bloated billionaire doing the dirty work, the stiff headwinds to a just society is race-related.
What? What your talking about is classism not racism. Putting forth policy that benefits the upper class over the lower class is classism. Just because there are people of color in the lower class doesn't make a policy racist.
What you offer is con-jec-ture.
The race and gender issue is a sideshow to economics. Your just society and guaranteed income will cost money. Without growth there will be no way to pay for it. Let alone the huge debt service we have to pay on the trillions we owe. We need to forward policy to benefit the economics of OUR country. No offense to citizens of other countries but without a strong US economy we are doomed. Unless you like Big Xi crouched on top of you. Plane tickets to Bejing are pretty cheap right now.
1
The paucity of Comments reflects readers' disinterest in Douthat's quantification of Trump's divisiveness . Anyone with half a brain doesn't need metrics to prove it.
I have two halves of a brain. Please enlighten us on how the president has been divisive. Economic Nationalism is divisive? Kicking out lobbyists is divisive. Get off the bandwagon and look at the facts.
1
"the new sociological and political fissures that have opened"
Thes "fissures" are undoubtedly new to Ross but that is because Ross has such a myopic sense of what our "landscape" actually is.
These divisions have been around for thousands of years, especially the idiotic belief that men are somehow superior to women, and by the way ross, Ever hear of the Civil war? Using race as a way to justify the racial superiority of whoever is in control is also an ancient practice.
Both of these infantile and ignorant means to justify the enslavement of women and whatever the racial, religious, or nationality (English were, still are in many minds, vastly superior to the poor Irish) was being enslaved by their labeled inferiority Come from the same root.
Fear and hate are the ancient drivers of such ignorance. It is these two "energies" that have drive all would be Kings of the world and are driving Donald Trump, and the long taiol of his lipspittels. They are heartless and except for a kind of animal cunningness, mindless.
1
Reading this I just come away with the thought, so you think our society has been impacted negatively by the decay of male- female relationships and implied to me, is that if women just went back to the kitchen and raising children American society would improve. Back to the idealized 1950's that only existed on TV shows.
2
Plenty of women were happy in the 50's and 60's. Some women actually LIKED being married, believe it or not. And it wouldn't be a disaster if even Americans without a college degree could find employment, in my opinion.
So in other words, Ross, you're saying that a whole bunch of white women who fell into the 53 percent that voted for Trump are now expressing some buyers' remorse for that decision. Right? Well, there's an African-American proverb that comes to mind: "We tried to tell y'all."
3
I guess it is time for Republicans to gerrymander districts so that the white female vote won't hurt them. But, as Republicans create districts with African Americans, Hispanics, and white women, their worst racial fears will be realized as those groups reproduce. Soon, blocks of old white men will be left alone voting for old white men. The Republicans should give up now and impeach Trump.
3
Loyalty is the key in the relationship of women & men. Those paired with hints of disloyalty & a tenuous aspect under the same roof into the future will be troubled. Trump is a blip on the radar screen for those possessing solidarity.
Dismissing class in the struggle against the plutocrats is as ridiculous as thinking that greater inclusion of women & minorities into the 1% will assuage unrest & discontent in the nation and allow for continuance of business as usual.
Until the general welfare of all is addressed the unrest will not subside. A country should not be administered like a giant casino. If you want to take inordinate risks with the health of the planet, leading to untrammeled greed, seek another outlet for your megalomania. Go climb a mountain or shoot the rapids. Don't play with people's lives.
4
I agree with you about loyalty and the need to be able to trust one's partner as central to a relationship. The thing is, who out there even wants a relationship any more? It takes time to build loyalty and trust, and most hookups only last a few days. Do hookup "partners" even know each other's name? So loyalty and trustworthiness become devalued traits, along with dependability, reliability, literacy...
Man Please. Racist, Racist! Misogynist! Look, I'm not a supporter of Donald Trump. But prove this guy is a racist. It's all hearsay and conjecture. But people are still led by the nose in the name of social justice to oppose the legitimacy of this president.
It's not the man that's important, it's the idea and the policy. Does Trump really have an idea that women and folks of color need to fall back in line behind White Patriarchy? If you do believe that, then what policy initiatives has he put forth or articulated that constitute that line of thinking. Controlling immigration? Any president that wants to control immigration is racist? Carter? Clinton? It's economic. The idea and policies are either socialistic or they're not. It's not racism or misogyny.
Last time I checked women and men have equal rights under the law. If your being discriminated against (which is against the law), you'll need to detail the offense, and prosecute the offender in a timely manner. End of story.
2
The "Me Too" movement was started by a black woman.
3
Huh! What planet are you watching all this from? And from where on that planet?
How is it that conservative opiners forget about the 8 years of Obama and the steady increase in all indicators of progress, including wages and wealth. Since t rump didn't cause everything to go in the "outhouse" he must be the source of all this good news. t rump is now and has been basking in the glow of Obama's accomplishments even as he does all he can to trash them.
If some poll numbers are showing more Hispanic and African American males gaining a favorable view of t rump I am going to bet, and raise, that those numbers are wrong.
I really need to stop reading the drivel from this guy's "pen".
4
No mention of the one thing that has made women angriest this past year - the defeat of Hillary Clinton? Sorry but this is not about relations between the sexes. The reality is that the country had the choice to elect an eminently qualified, moral president, and instead they chose to slap her and all women in the face by electing a blithering idiot instead. This just showed us that sexism is embedded far more deeply than racism, and feels like it will never go away.
14
I think when the first woman to run for President who was by all accounts one of the most qualified people to run, (forget your personal feelings about HRC, she has served as a Rorschach test for people to project how they feel about smart, ambitious women for 25+ year), had her $hit laid bare in the public square by Putin, Assange and yes, Comey too, manages to win the popular vote by 3 MILLION and we get this ignorant, misogynist, selfish, unqualified narcissist who by all accounts is a Russian asset, that causes a backlash and women have had enough. That's why millions marched last year and why women will be the saviors from this horrific assault on our democracy as they run for office in unprecedented numbers and make sure that 10-20 years down the road when we look at our representatives in government it isn't predominantly white, (or orange), guys running things. I just hope as many women, (and men), if not more, march again this Saturday to remind him/them the resistance lives and thrives and November can't come soon enough.
5
The eternal great white hope arises yet again: the blacks will accept a secondary role, and life can get back to normal, whites on top. Um, no.
1
Dear Ross,
We just aren't that into you (all, guys) any more.
Sorry.
Have fun on your boys weekend. (and life)
Women
5
Ross, you should check with someone at The New York Times who understands math before you write stuff like this. Linda Qui explains in a column today why this analysis is wrong, and then goes on to do it right.
1
It is interesting that Dounat describes the division in terms of sex and gender. Despite the transgender movement, most people think of these two words as synonymous. Female means having certain genitalia, and male means having something different.
Ross, read https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/us/politics/factcheck-trump-black-ame... and then issue a correction for your misinterpretation of the Survey Monkey poll. Thank you!
57% of White women and a large swath of middle age White women voted for Donald Trump when they knew he was documented and self incriminated sexist and racist. If these women are bailing from the Trump Titanic let’s not pretend that it’s because of Donald Trump’s character or current events. Stop pretending these people have values and just can’t stand the standards of the Presidency being lowered.
Donald Trump only hired a handful of White Women for his cabinet. He didn’t bring back Coal or Carrier jobs. He sided with a child molester over a good citizen who just happened to be a moderate democrat. He lied more times than there are days in his presidency. He played golf more days than all the President’s combined. He didn’t build a wall. His only accomplishment will temporarily lower their taxes for a thousand dollars then jack it back up! And a whole bunch of people like them will lose the Obamacare they loved to hate until Obama was no longer president.
If Donald Trump had just thrown these women a few more crumbs and said nice things about them I have no doubt these women would still be in his camp while he continued to attack minorities and deported people who were brought here as kids.
1
“Outhouses”? Seriously? Douthat is siding with that laundered version of reality rather than eyewitness reports?
There’s not much here but a muddle of thin speculation that sheds little light on the cultural shifts in Trump’s wake.
What Douthat really wants to talk about is “sex and gender” because, like most conservatives, he is obsessed with them. Douthat is desperately afraid that his well-defined and tightly-regulated world order may be changing. He reveals his anxiety saying “there is strong evidence that our problems with sex and gender and male-female relations are worsening. “ By “problems with sex and gender” he means that gay and transgender people have been emboldened to step out and embrace what nature has arranged for them, instead of trying to suffocate their natural instincts under the weight of unnatural, anachronistic cultural and religious strictures. Similarly, by saying that “male-female relations are worsening,” he means that traditional patriarchy is being challenged. The traditional power-structure where men were men and women were women is showing cracks in its foundation. Women are throwing off the chains of subservience and demanding equality and this bothers Douthat.
For religious conservatives like Douthat, the “Great Chain of Being” must be preserved. Traditional “sex, marriage and family” roles are inviolable, chiseled in the stone of ancient texts and handed down from the heavens. Nature be damned; everyone must know their pre-ordained place.
3
Women should band together with the Black Lives Matter movement. It is going to take a huge number of people to right the wrong of President Trump. He is a dangerous narcissistic idiot savant. His one talent is for self-promotion. The rest of America does not fit in with his vision. A nation needs leaders who have a positive vision for all of their citizens, not just the 1%. The world is full of tin-pot despots, the USA is the noble experiment of Democracy. We have done better and can do better and we will do better if we are united. We need the Four freedoms: Freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom from want and freedom from fear.
Oh Ross; Surveys can say whatever we want them to say:
According to Survey Monkey (the survey you quote):
" In all, 23 percent of black men approved of Trump’s performance versus 11 percent of black women." Less for black women. ( We know at least 2 million black Americans weren't polled; they're currently in prison.
How many of those 600,000 surveyed were Black Men; 23% of what? How were the questions framed? Specifically- What questions were posed? The Survey Monkey website does not even reference this survey. Where is the the small print that typically tells how the survey was constructed?
For Ross to even print this ilk is a dishonest assessment; race and sex are almost inextricably intertwined. Shame on you.
Wrong, as usual. sigh...
2
One would hope that Trump's base is made up of moral people, and that they would be concerned about his lack of a moral compass. How long can they stand dealing with the thought of their Dear Leader being such an obnoxious human being that he has to have his lawyers pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to porn stars and others with whom he's had ongoing affairs?
Wow America definitely needed to hear another white man's take on gender and race. Well done NYT.
2
Ross, do you know any black or Hispanic people? If you do, then you know your survey is off by 100 or so percent.
3
"And I’m not denying the reality of that racism" Very generous of you.
Rather than polls how many actual people of color do you interact with on a daily personal basis. And with your almost maniacal fixation on working endlessly on controlling women's sexual and reproductive lives it is no small wonder why sex and gender are so prominent in your public pronouncements.
3
Racism and sexism still exist and are, of course, wrong. Still, it is better now for every group than it ever was in the history of the world. And that includes minorities and women. Even Barack Obama has been saying lately: "If you had to choose one moment in history in which you could be born, and you didn’t know ahead of time who you were going to be–what nationality, what gender, what race, whether you’d be rich or poor, gay or straight, what faith you’d be born into–you wouldn’t choose 100 years ago. You wouldn’t choose the fifties, or the sixties, or the seventies. You’d choose right now."
Yet, it seems like we are taking a step back. The better it gets the more it seems so many want to be seen as victims and oppressed, even if they live better than kings did 75 or 100 years ago. Over-incarceration or unequal pay, etc., are legitimate issues, and we can always improve, but the reversal by people who think they are civil rights advocates of the message of MLK, Jr. to judge each other by our characters and not or skin color (or whichever superficial quality), is troubling. Many people who feel oppressed seem to want us all to be judged by our skin color or other superficial quality. That seems like the message of BLM and unfortunately now many in the metoo movement. Many also seem to believe that he was wrong about how to move to a more just society and that the proper way to protest is by silencing those who disagree with them by intimidation or violence.
1
Or it may simply be that there was no black support in the first place; that would be my observation. Shrug...
Radicalism used to be about collective uplift -- I march because it will help all of us. Now, though, as politics has been replaced by identity, radicalism is a series of specialized communities with specialized concerns -- not irrelevant concerns, to be sure, but also not necessarily relevant to everyone. Wile the Right encourages this -- divide and conquer -- it's the Left who started it, turning union rallies and general strikes into smaller, more easily ignored movements, marches and activism.
And yes, it's amazing that we have the #metoo movement and that we're finally holding the powerful and privileged responsible for sexual abuse and sexual misconduct; now, if only we could have that fervor for discovery and punishment make the leap to afflicting those who engage in economic abuse and economic misconduct; while we're alll glad that clammy-handed touchy dudes are getting thrown out of their jobs, if we were at all principled, we'd go after CEOs who employ undocumented immigrants, maintain unsafe workplaces and underpay their workers because they know that you can treat employees like garbage in America as long as you don't go near their swimsuit area.
However, as economic abuse and exploitation are deemed necessary for maximum profit -- not profit, but maximum profit -- and are considered part of our 'system,' I wouldn't hold your breath.
1
Irony of ironies. If a woman ran under the republican banner, she would be elected President with no mitigating popular vote/electoral vote arguments. If however any of the current darlings of the chattering classes were the democratic nominee - thinking here of the "gang of 4" which includes the discredited "her" - a loss is guaranteed, whether the embarrassing kind where a shoo-in loses to a flimflam man, or the landslide kind where a kook or a daytime diet evangelical gets swamped. This surely provokes consternation among the herded hypocrites; the real curiosity though is whether the constipated conservatives can get off their widening posteriors to notice.
Psst: There's a two-fer over at the UN.
Trump is Putin's stooge, and as such, is about confusion and diversion, seeding dysfunction and severing America's ties with her allies. If America divides into many opposing sides all hating the other, Putin wins. Does a poll showing Trump weakening, at the same time, show American constitutional values growing in power?
Sure, Trump is our racist, woman hating President, but he did get elected. At some level he is a creature of America and our sordid history of slavery and white power.
So the weakening of Trump is only half the battle against Putin, the other is strengthening the Constitutional guarantees of a free media to inform us, and a free judiciary to hold all to the laws. Time will tell if our Supreme Court is bought and paid for, if racism is a permanent feature of American politics, if American Oligarchs will rule us as the billionaires rule Russia.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
1
.
Question: Identify a primary source of social friction since the 60s Civil Rights era in the US?
Answer: Feminism
A French perspective on US Culture from a recent article in the NYT: “Relations between men and women in America are one of permanent war. They don’t seem to actually like each other. There seems to be no possible friendship between them.”
This resonates with my experience. The amount of resentment and taught oppression coming from American women is ASTOUNDING. I do not know its source, but all this agitation and anger will not get you on the $10 bill, ladies.
The cultural battle is Patriarchy vs Matriarchy … and all that that entails.
This article is a hand-wrong exercise in trying to somehow put a ranking on who is being discriminated more. I don’t think it is entirely conscious. But the conclusion being drawn is that white women are suffering more than minorities.
Look, Trump is a detestable human being. Let’s not spend time parsing who is worse off. America (and the world) are worse off with this “man” in power. Let’s not fall for the dividing exercise of which category in the census is suffering more. Unite together and resist.
3
How often have you heard the expression "women behaving badly" as opposed to its decades-old male counterpart? Women, by the thousands have been incentivized by our Fake President's misogyny in getting involved with a spectrum of political pursuits. His recently revealed adulterous dalliances with prostitutes is just another chapter in his sordid life. They don't want their kids growing up in a Trump World immoral swamp.
1
As a middle aged woman, I can say that part of the reason we don't like Trump is that he reminds us of every bad date or boss we have ever had: narcissistic, loud, angry, selfish, boorish, racist and just plain mean. We know this type and we don't like it. We are embarrassed that he represents our country. Look at what happened in Wisconsin yesterday - women totally abandoned the Republican candidates over their enablement of this monster.
6
More nonsense from a white male supremacist misogynist Roman Catholic conservative Republican Confederate who does not know any biological science regarding either sex or race. Nor does he know the socioeconomic political educational history of color aka race in America.
There are only two biological procreative biological human sex genders aka female XX and male XY.
There is only one multicolored multiethnic multinational origin multi-faith biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit human race species that began in Africa 300,000+ years ago. What we call race aka color is an evolutionary fit pigmented response to differing levels of solar radiation at altitudes and latitudes in isolated human populations primarily related to the production of Vitamin D and protecting genes from damaging mutations. Humans are primate apes destined by their nature and nurture to crave fat, salt, sugar, water, habitat, sex and kin by any means necessary including conflict and cooperation.
What we call race aka color is a socioeconomic political educational white American male supremacist Judeo-Christian malign myth meant to legally and morally justify black African enslavement and black African separate and unequal lives that did not and do not matter in America.
My white European, black African, brown Native and yellow Asian ancestry makes me all and only black in America. Being black in America has always made America a nation of callous corrupt cruel cynical hypocrites. Color trumps sex.
2
Women — correctly — see in Trump the casual sexual predator that they have had to fear and dodge their entire lives. Yes, Bill Clinton was bad. But he never seemed as cruel and callous as Trump. Men are completely clueless about the constant low-grade (and frequently, significant) harassment that women endure.
3
The inequality between men and women, often reinforced through contrived (doubtlessly by men) religious dogma, is what twenty first century women are seeking to change. This has been a very very long time in coming, so to some it may seem extreme. It's been brewing all along, the "good old days" simply were NOT for women and we're not about to go back there. This doesn't minimize all the other prejudices in society, but serves to unify half the population, as this isn't any different for women of differing ethnicities. It's time for some big fundamental societal changes, and may we learn how to obliterate other prejudices as we resolve this.
Seems to me that women are the true believers of religion. The "men" of religion knew well how to increase the population of people who would follow their religion and thus pay for them to be kept. These "men" are not men, they are priests and as such are more akin to leaches. But I digress, women believe in religion and magic and secret body language and intuition and all sorts of nonsense that is not based on evidence. So, are 21st century women going to be evidence based? I doubt it.
By the way, half the population of the earth is not united. Women in the rest of the world view American women as spoiled babies.
Nice try at deflection but not gonna have it. Sort of Sad that you have this venue to publish your own denial and complicity. Sure Trump is a sexist, mysogynistic bigot, but he is also clearly a racist, fundamentally to his core. And it is crystal clear that he has been driven and guided by racism from his early days as a real estate developer and landlord in the 1970's. His call for the death penalty for the Central Park 5, and his refusal to retract it after they were clearly exonerated, should never be forgotten.
I hope in 2018 and then again in 2020, women loudly and clearly deliver the message that sexual shenanigans i.e., assault, harassment or general unwanted leering stupidity are disqualifying, whether someone is running for dog catcher, president or an office in between.
African American women are already in the vanguard—look to Alabama. In the four months preceding the Senate election, they registered, canvassed, persuaded and delivered voters to the polls to elect Doug Jones. The rest of us need to roll up our sleeves and help get this done.
Hillary Clinton was the sacrificial lamb. NEXT time, WE need a Wolf.
Just saying.
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could be you have something there, mr douthat.
the gender crunch image of the week is the irate cory booker, arms spread wide in the familiar "predatory bird descending" pose favored by bullyboys who have no other means of occupying space (or holding an audience), swooping down on kirstjen nielsen, (distinctly unimpressed, to her credit).
the image, a poster, speaks, (reeks) of the intense hostility buried under all those blue suits, both sides of the aisle, and far beyond washington as well...a satellite photo would show the spread of the condition across the country, deeply rooted like a giant fungus, and in such a photo trump would be just another, if temporarily brighter, blip.
as against the film and media sleazes, the girls, who have experiences these "swoopers" forever, are finally speaking and acting out, and thanks to guys like the undistinguished senastor from new jersey, the cover of the boys, hiding behind their "times up" pins, is blown.
"Something is badly out of joint with male-female relations, our ability to woo and be wooed, our capacity to successfully and happily pair off."
That disjointing has been building for 50 years..at a minimum. As society evolves, male-female relations must also. #MeToo and Time's Up are bringing the issues to the forefront. So Ross makes an interesting point that gender is "trumping" race. But Ross doesn't go far enough. Trump and the republicans keep trying to bait their "know nothings" "deplorables" base with racial dog whistles because they are in a "gender" bind. The problem can be stated in a single word, "freedumb". Freedumb meaning the opportunity to do whatever you have the power to do without restriction from government or society. No stinkin' regulations or laws. From the conservative viewpoint, freedumb, not truth, is the ultimate prize. Power is desired because of the freedumb it enables for alt-righties. But there's a catch...the 19th amendment.
You see...the conservative prized freedumb was, and is, only meant for men. Women are supposed to remain in their ancillary roles as domestic servants and concubines to the lords of the manor, while people of color work the fields outside of the plantati...err, home. But the feminist backlash has picked up new steam over the past year and if all the blue collar white women wake up to "their proper place" in the conservative scheme of the "golden age", it may well result in a backlash that brings down many a legislator.
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Could not agree with Douthat less. This seems to be little more than a feeble attempt at deflection.
As David Brooks recently stated, the republicans always revert to tax cuts and the democrats always revert to healthcare. Both sides conveniently ignore the number one crisis in America. The growing wealth inequality.
It is always about inequality and class. Inequality affects all of us. Every race and every gender. To try to turn this into a Trump "war on women", and deflect from the economic inequality time bomb, is utter nonsense.
“while either holding his own or actually gaining ground with blacks and Hispanics.”
Douthat should read the paper he works for occasionally:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/us/politics/factcheck-trump-black-...
So Douthat just repeated the same fake news/lies that Fox and Friends (a primary source of propaganda for our President), Brian Kilmeade and Breitbart spread. That’s nice “journalistic” company.
Trump is a racist - it is disturbing and disgusting that so many white Americans either minimize, ignore, make excuses or, in some cases, fully agree with and support Trump’s racism. Douthat should be outraged by Trump’s racism, but Douthat gives us some strange racism vs. sexism false debate instead. Trump is also a sexist, misogynist sexual predator. It’s possible to be both a racist and a sexual predator at the same time - both are horrible, and we have a POTUS who is both.
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Crime rates peaked in 1991 and have been declining ever since.
https://www.brennancenter.org/publication/crime-trends1990-2016
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Age is also a factor. The "populist" movement is really an old person's lament ... oh the kids today with their hookup culture and why do I not have my old union / mining job ..
Touching the third rail of social security or medicare could realign this quickly.
And millenials really need to take charge, there are a lot of them, and their culture is just not the culture of their grandparents. As a very young baby boomer, my attitudes, my entire life has been conducted in a different world, a world of birth control, women attending colleges and working en mass, a world of 50% divorce rates which makes the man as protector role ludicrous (how many men complain about child support !), a world of salaries that only provide 75% of a living to families. Young women are investing years and tens of thousands of dollars to attend college .. they are not going to vote for these old geezers.
I thought Hillary was too old, but at least she represents a society that I recognize. The Great Again years are so long gone .. and only the ignorant think companies are going to share the wealth so we can get rich with limited skill sets and effort and inconvenience (for gosh sakes, you can leave your hamlet for school and for work).
The terminology of millennial, gen-Xer, babyboomer are all simplistic grouping terms use to identify those who are easy dupes. Those who identify themselves with these groups are the dupes. Each age group may grow up in similar times, but only the most sheepish of people want to be part of the group. This terminology is unable to adequately describe anyone of intelligence that makes decisions based on their own thoughts. It's really for advertising and sales. Followers will buy things to stay in the group, even things they don't need and can't afford because they have been duped.
At their most basic forms, current women's consciousness and the #metoo phenomenon are about women no longer allowing creepy, powerful, aggressive, hostile, self-entitled men to objectify, comment or touch inappropriately, or sexually coerce girls and women. The majority of American women realize that their President is the embodiment of that creepy guy.
I'm sorry, alluding to this idea that Trump has somehow substantially gaining traction with blacks and Hispanics is ridiculous. Look at what happened in Alabama and the presidential election itself. Those very same white women that you mention here, were quite comfortable putting people of so low character into power. Gender might be the loudest monster in the room, but the dividing lines in this country will always be race.
I think it's a stretch to suggest that women's dislike of Trump translates into a weakening of male-female relations on a personal level. Quite the opposite. For white men like me who also dislike Trump I feel greater solidarity than ever with women and with blacks. In fact, I look at both groups as the last best hope for America's future. Maybe men who like Trump feel more isolated politically—and possibly personally—from women and blacks. But really who cares? They deserve their isolation if they are going to side with the racist, misogynist, Putinist, sociopath in the White House.
One can understandably wish to simplify the significance of changes in power equations between men and women. To say that sex trumps race, however, is turning a blind eye to the reality that discriminatory acts on both and other bases are not mutually exclusive and continue on many levels. Stereotypes of men dragging women by their hair go all the way back to caveman days. So does discrimination based on religion, ethnicity and yes, skin color.
The reality, sad as it may be, is that women, as is the case with people of color and various religions, have long been given a back seat in society, sometimes literally. Power has long been regarded as a zero-sum game, and is antithetical to the notion that a rising ride raises all ships. People around the world have long been balkanized by choice, identity, power and the fear of losing out to others who are different.
Mr. Douthat would do well to resist the temptation to evaluate the "isms" based on recent events only. Yes, pendulum swings can ebb and flow, but an outrageous, misogynistic and race-mongering pig is still an outrageous, misogynistic and race-mongering pig. When that pig is powerful, while being aided and abetted by his cohorts in the governing party, it's a problem for all of us. Those who is hurts the most, and others who are equally offended by it, have every right to be outraged without over-intellectualizing it or comparing it to other still widely present forms of discrimination.
Douthat's analysis shows unusual grasp of detail except on perhaps the most important issue. Feminism is not entirely about how men treat women socially- equally important is achieving a fair gender distribution of political and economic power.
Hillary lost the race to a male who is the symbol of everything wrong with his gender- a caricature of every negative male stereotype, a confessed sexual abuser and serial adulterer while also being utterly unqualified for the job even if you overlook the fact that he is an absolute pig. He was picked over a highly qualified candidate who was the first real female contender for the presidency in history.
This is insult on injury to the extreme and the ultimate call to arms for anyone, male or female, who wants to see women acquire their rightful position of equitable power in our government and economy.
Crime is at a low relative to the last several decades. You say crime spiked near the end of the Obama era. I would say that crime decreased to some baseline, and then is fluctuating around that low. The so called crime spike is not a spike at all but the natural variance that occurs now at an all-time low in crime.
Most people are in a religious cults. Therefore it is very difficult to know what any of their beliefs means since they do not use empirical evidence to guide their thoughts.
The women's movement is the weakest of all movements since they still have a great shame about sex. Shame that they have been trained to have by their priest and gurus (their cult leaders-even the Oprah cult). They are angry about sex, but because of their shame they are unable to speak like adults. The good news is that the women's movement is the one movement that could make the most progress easily since it only depends on women growing up and thinking like adults. Many will continue to expect men to save them from other men. Some will always believe in unicorns and white knights.
The lowering of the incarceration rate is really a money thing. The cost to the economy of the war on drugs and the establishment of our prison state has been severe. Any changes are about the money and not a lowering of racism. Most people are still racists, including most minority communities.
People are educated to believe in magical things, so progress is really slow. Most people are permanent children
You forget to mention an important, rarely mentioned, Trump base:
middle-class whites, including some well-to-do and educated. They might be just as responsible for his election than low-income whites...
Gender, class and race are secondary to the Republicans' taste for blood.
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"But there is strong evidence that our problems with sex and gender and male-female relations are worsening "
...says gene-pool lottery winner
Men like Ross long for the days when women and minorities were seen, not heard. It's always the "oh woe is me" white man cry.
Sorry, you lost me right away when you said “...lost support among middle aged white women...”
You are referring to a group that doesnt like to be called racist, yet indulges quite heavily in the same. Why do you think they would tell a pollster what they *actually* feel? The 2016 elections: what happened with the same group, you think?
Ross, it seems pretty simple to me why #MeToo has more popularity in the media. White women have more resources and access to the power-structure than BLM members. This is why Occupy__ fizzled, they were blocked access by our power structure.
Because so many men have been behaving so poorly with women, every single woman, every woman has experienced some form of harassment and most assault, at the hands of men. I was molested as a child by a man. #MeToo has half (or more) of the population that can relate to being victimized by someone in power (almost always a male).
Because #45 represents, perhaps all that is wrong with the White-Y Chromosome, he is the perfect catalyst for all of his deserved hate. But women have more power than any non-majority race; hopefully, they can see their movement bear fruit and fight all types of discrimination under their umbrella.
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Mr. Douthat, methink thee protest too much.
You write, and have written for almost two years, of the “unsavory” effects of a Donald Trump candidacy and, unfortunately, presidency. But between the lines you write (and have written) I detect the stench of smug satisfaction at the way this awful president has smeared and besmirched the national reputation.
You see, sir, Donald Trump has unashamedly trampled upon the civil rights of all Americans but, in true keeping with “conservative” Republican “principles,” you return, time and again, to the faults of his predecessors, especially the black one. You have sneered at President Obama’s immigration policy rather than take a switch to John Boehner, the ousted House Speaker, who allowed the biggest immigration bi-partisan agreement to die on his desk.
And for bringing the fractured country together, your president has, with overwhelming white support, (older and younger but blue collar) unstitched any coherence from President Obama’s noble attempts to find common ground.
The president, with his singular performance on the Hollywood Access tape, endeared himself to white Americans—male and female—and you wonder why his popularity is melting away now, particularly among white women, in the sordid wake of Harvey Weinstein ‘s behavior?
These moral, God-fearing Republican conservatives, like yourself, continue with an essentially white supremacist narrative to explain a current greatness that few, except you (and yours) can see.
Douthat says support among African-Americans has held steady or increased. However, in a "Fact Check" article, the NYT says Trump falsely claimed his support has doubled when it has actually decreased. I'm inclined to disregard the point from the opinion page, but the inconsistency is confusing nonetheless.
1
At this point, it's safe to assume that anything coming out of Donald Trump's mouth seriously needs a fact check -- especially when it concerns his favorable support in the Black community, which is a prime example of 'FAKE NEWS' at its best.
Certainly seems like a lot of far-reaching conclusions based on a single survey—however “large and deep”—perhaps revealing more about the columnist’s ongoing fixations with sex and gender than the electorate’s.
1
It will be interesting to see how the information about Trump paying hush-money to a porn star will play out. I cannot stand Trump, but I do not care what he does with another consenting adult in his private life. The question is what Trump supporters, who take a public stand against immorality, will say and do at the ballot box. For now, though, women across the board know how difficult it is for them to get ahead in a male dominated world and they see Trump as an atavism who never "got" it or has chosen to foreget 'it'
Other than his vulgarity, what blue collar person could possibly identify with him or believe he even cares about them?
The majority of white women in this country voted for Trump. The majority of white women in Alabama voted to send a pedophile to the Senate. I think white women still have a lot of work to do. All the marching and protesting not withstanding, it is apparent that race still trumps gender as far as white women are concerned.
1
ross is blind to yet another problem, and in his conservative romantic delusion, pines for them good old days, just like Archie Bunker. ross' utter lack of capacity to see things from a point of view other than his own is telling, demonstrating his incurious ego. He knows nothing of the oppressed.
Women are digging a big hole for themselves. Men are actively avoiding them in the workplace, are reluctant to hire them for obvious reasons. Work is difficult enough without all the gender commotion.
1
Quite simple. White women in America have more power and influence than immigrants, Native Americans, Americans with Latino ancestry, Asian Americans, and African American Descendants of Slavery combined. Look at the economic data and familiar connections of these women and you'll find they have quite the influence, not surprising they are the mothers, sisters, lovers of the WASP men who have controlled this country for centuries.
13
Yes, I noticed the apologetic tone of the editorial too, as well as the convoluted "don't want to offend anyone" wording.
The stock market is exploding, the job outlook is better than ever, companies are giving bonuses to their employees, 401Ks are growing and people are in a pretty good place. They feel confident and their lives feel pretty secure. They are quite pleased at the positive outcomes under President Trump. Both blacks and whites have reaped the rewards under this president as has both men and women.
Many college educated women voted for Donald Trump and would do so in a heartbeat again. I know I would. We should be seeing more money in our paychecks with the current tax plan in effect. It certainly will be a boost to those who have college educations and mortgages to pare down.
The women who disliked President Trump and attended the woman's march last year still dislike him. They were upset that Hillary Clinton did not win but she was a very flawed candidate and did not represent all women. They were so sure she would win and were shocked to find out Mr. Trump had won the presidency.
There are certainly some men who have behaved horribly towards women like the Harvey Weinsteins but we should not lump all men's behaviors together. If a man touches a woman's arm or knee is this harassment? If a man smiles at a woman, is this harassment? Women better be careful or they will find that men will stop being attracted to them. We all know when behaviors cross the line but we must not confuse innocent behaviors with lewd and vulgar acts. There are still many good men.
1
True...there are still many good men. Unfortunately, the unhinged current resident of the White House is not one of them!
1
So what is the point of this slicing and dicing? And of a white man--a conservative white man at that--ordering political priorities for everybody else? Isn't that the issue?
Women may indeed decide the midterms and the next presidential race. But if we do, it will not because "gender trumps race." It will be because we, the "female[s] of the species," as Douthat so clinically puts it, are sick and tired of conservative white men dictating the rules for everybody else.
Certainly we are sick and tired of conservative white men controlling women's healthcare. We are sick and tired of conservative white men telling us what we can and cannot do with our bodies. We are sick and tired of conservative white men battening down their economic power over the rest of us. We are sick and tired of men of whatever political persuasion wielding that power for sexual gratification.
But because, according to overwhelming evidence, we have more empathy than the "male of the species," we also feel the pain of the other "others." So we are sick and tired of conservative white men dictating to black athletes the terms of their racial protest, sick and tired of their tearing immigrants' families apart, of their telling our homosexual children who they can and cannot love. We are sick and tired of their condescension, their bans, their mockery--of those of whatever stripe.
And we will vote. Not just for ourselves but for the "others."
12
I appreciate Ross being bold enough to raise this issue. If the topic of class war or race war is uncomfortable, how much moreso is the idea of a gender war? The last presidential election was the first one held between a man and a woman, and there is little doubt that many votes were cast based on gender solidarity. Stung by their loss, and in particular by their loss to such a clear misogynist, women organized a mass march, and the #MeToo movement to specifically bring down men like Donald Trump. The question is, how hot do we want this war to get? It seems to me that a real gender war would be one in which everyone would be the loser.
2
Gender is the weakest argument to bring to the table. Everything happening today has its basis is power: who has it, who gets to exercise it. It can't be argued that voters, that is the umpteen millions who chose not to vote at all, left their power outside of the ballot box, thus shepherding in the surreal cast of characters that make up the trump administration. If we continue to make our Democrats dance to identity politics instead of the real issues that confront ALL people we will deserve the inevitable crumbling of the social fabric that should be binding us to a common purpose: making everyone's life better.
Republicans have demonstrated they have no such interest. If you have money and position they will protect it but if want a hand up from the hole you're in they are more than likely to hand you a shovel to dig yourself deeper. Vote humanity people. That's the one interest group that counts.
As an article in today's Times exposing Trump's latest exaggerations and outright lies shows, Douthat is completely wrong about increased support amng minorities.
Nor does polling data--and today's Times article does an excellent job of showing how FOX, and Trump, fudged the data--showing that black men are more likely to support trump than black women remotely show that the President's support has increased.
One of your worst, Mr. Douthat. Might be as well to give some thought as to what would drive such gross misrepresentation.
1
"The presidency may be racist, but it's gender that's the essential Trump-era divide."
Sorry to disagree with you, Mr. Douthat. But the presidency is racist -- there's no doubt about it.
And THAT is the essential Trump-era divide.
But then, maybe you didn't hear his recent disparaging comment about Haiti and Africa, along with his stated preference for a white/blonde country like Norway, or any of the other numerous remarks he's made about people of colour? None of them complimentary.
This is not to dispute the fact that Donald Trump is also a bonafide sexist, but to somehow put it on par with, or less than his clearly demonstrated bigotry is simply wrong.
America's Civil War wasn't fought over sex. And white women gained the equal right to vote long before Blacks did.
The racial divisions in this country run long and deep.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that it's anything other than that.
1
Women gained the vote before blacks in the U.S.? Please check your history books, you are dead wrong.
@amy
If anyone has to check the history books, it's you.
And look up the Civil War while you're at it.
@amy
Another thing.
Look at the Voting Rights Acts of 1965 -- would something like that even be necessary if all Americans had the equal rights to vote?
Think about it.
While the actress Susan Sarandon did not endorse Trump, I think what she meant by saying that Trump over Clinton was preferable (since the DNC & Clinton colluded to derail Sen. Sanders) has played out and unfolded just as she predicted. Trump has exposed himself for all that he is and much of the country has done the same. I have heard her recently kind of try to back track from certain remarks she has made in the past, but I wish she would embrace her prescience. If corruption was going to keep Sanders out, then let all the rot be exposed, and perhaps we can rebuild when we get to some solid foundation.
You drive past the obvious way too often for this opinion piece to a simple mistake. I doubt that you suffer from Dumb Guy Syndrome like a well meaning guy at work who naturally fumbles around politics and women. Let's see if I can help you out. The whole nation is up in arms over Trump, his constant stream of lies and hate. Women are particularly alarmed that he's stealing that promised future every generation of Americans have passed on the their children - a better world that they can see spreading across America. As a mom I can say that Trump is a threat to my kids, the business I built for them and to my aging parents who have done everything right as parents, grandparents and as Americans. Trump is not a protagonist in the story of the American future. He's a blackhat. A willing bad guy who knows he's hurting people. If that's what you were driving at in this sadly structured attempt to molest women across America with your words then I need to leave you with a simple meme: the Fonz. Decades ago Bob Brunner and the crew of Happy Days created a man who had all of the traits of a tough guy or thug but he was written to have a heart of gold. He was raw and volatile, but he was part of the solution and not the cause of woe. Trump simply has no redeeming qualities to his character. He is a one dimensional character that's chosen to be the latest American STD. Donald Trump hates.
3
The NYT should be able to have the first/ second pick of the conservative litter; why they still have Ross Douthat is beyond me. Ref. black unemployment, anyone who knows how to reason logically would know that the current economic situation is mostly the inertia of the past presidential period. The interpretation of the Survey that the support of black and hispanic men has grown is illogical and unwarranted.
Patriarchy, in evidence over thousands of years, has ultimately failed humanity. The major failure being global warming. I mean really, billions could die from it before we reach the next century. I am all for the ascendancy of women and especially women of color.
5
The real problem isn't sex but heterosexuality. The wooing and pairing off Mr. Douthat refers to admits as much but most people still see heterosexuality as simply the natural order of things; it is assumed to be beyond interrogation or critique.
It isn't. Heterosexuality is an ideology that orders social life and one that is in a constant state of change.
Perhaps Mr. Douthat forgets that a 54% majority of women voted against Donald Trump (and for Hillary Rodham Clinton). Minority women always opposed him (98% of black women and 68% of Hispanic women in the election). What has changed is that Trump is losing support among the 53% of white women who voted for him.
In an environment where there are daily sordid revelations of sexual abuse and discrimination, is it really any wonder there is a growing gender divide? Trump and his piggish behavior are the embodiment of society's growing revulsion. The question is whether Republicans will finally disassociate themselves from him before the electorate concludes the GOP is a party that condones oppression of women.
1
Actually, race trumps gender. The majority of white women will vote for Trump again in 2020, why would they change? A video making the rounds on social media of a white woman applauding Trump's latest comments on Haiti/Africa appears representative of the views that many white women have of nonwhite people.
Sex and race are not remotely comparable - any attempt to do so is a bad metaphor and arguably "racist."
Gender is quite real -- it has existed for hundreds of millions years (every species we can see without a microscope has female and male forms) and has profoundly shaped every extant lineage (including ours).
Race is artificial -- a socially manufactured category. The superficial differences in skin "color" (actually shade) etc. on which it is based did not even exist 50,000 years ago (or even as recently as 10,000 years ago). Our proclivity for assigning importance to these differences is sexually driven (racial notions are mating notions) -- not vice versa.
All politics is gender politics -- always was and always will be. Men form competing groups (have politics) because of women. The interesting question is when, if ever, women will vote as a block rather than according to the race or class of their fathers or husbands.
1
Minimization and deflection. Comparing two problems does not eliminate tem.
Blacks are 14% of the population.
Hispanics are 17% of the population.
Whites are about 63% of the population depending on the source of statistics.
And of course women are 50% of the population.
Those numbers will affect Ross's numbers.
Mostly, Ross has a family to feed and has to come up with a column twice a week.
Douthat spurs divisions by putting one prejudice over another. Misogyny and racism are born out of the same cloth by putting one group of people over another. It is the product of GOP efforts to distract us from the real division which is between the masses and the .01 percent ruling class.
3
Ross, could it just-perhaps-maybe, possibly be, race is still that monster no one wants to honestly deal with? All in all- why try to pit one oppression against another as a "winner".
Let's not blow a small increase in some violent crimes out of proportion here. Most of the increase has been concentrated in just a few cities. The vast majority of Americans live lives of ever-increasing safety no matter what the Administration, NRA, or the media tell us.
https://www.brennancenter.org/publication/crime-trends1990-2016
Explaining crime in cities like Chicago is pretty difficult, too.
http://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/store/2435a5d4658e2ca19f4f225b...
First, when people say it's wrong to panic about the increase in violent crime, what they are really saying is that not enough people have died to upset them. And, btw, violent crime is way up in FL, TX, AZ, NV, LA, GA
Since you didn't provide any sources, let's start with Florida:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm
Violent crimes inched up slightly in 2015 but fell dramatically in 2016 especially when measured as a population-adjusted rate.
Texas did see an increase in the rate of violent crimes in 2015 and 2016. Even so the rate for 2016 is far below that for 2010.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm
Finally let's look at Nevada. The violent crime rate increased sharply in 2015 but fell back considerably a year later.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nvcrime.htm
I'll let you review the other states. Please report back what you find.
Remember that some categories like murders have very few cases so they are subject to considerable annual variability. I'm sure the 2017 murder rate for Nevada will be inflated by the massacre in Las Vegas, for instance.
All told, though, the actual data for at least these three states hardly justify using the term "way up." Don't listen to the media or your friends; do you own research.
Although Mr. Douthat perceives sex and gender and male-female relations as worsening, one could also assert they are improving because a multitude of women will no longer allow themselves to be anything less than completely equal in all sexual, social, economic and political matters. In the character of the President, the ridiculous zero sum paradigm of paternalistic hegemony has fully revealed itself. Every woman I know has her own example(s) of "me too" moments, and just as Black Lives Matter is really about black lives mattering just as much as everyone else's lives, Me Too represents the throwing off any remaining assumptions about male sexual and social entitlement. This sounds like a major improvement to me.
3
It's tempting to think that #MeToo was caused by Trumpism but in reality it's a logical outgrowth of social media. Social media allows anyone to create viral phenomena, and cast aspersions on people and ruin their lives with the push of a Share button. I consider it a great evil in modern society. Stalin-like purges and "thought crimes" aren't too far away in the future.
2
Trump's approval among blacks and Hispanics was pretty close to the bottom, but he had fairly strong support among conservative women. With that sentence alone, it could be predicted that support among women would drop more substantially than among minorities. Similarly, if we had to guess where support would increase, we would guess the group that had nowhere to go but up. This is an article about nothing.
The traditional female-male dyad has been under withering attack from every side since the Cultural Revolution of 1960s, and in particular from the entertainment industry. It's no surprise it's at a low point now.
And it may go lower yet.
But make no mistake: the traditional female-male dyad is very resilient and has withstood the test of millennia. Rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated. It shall return, and when it doe, it will be the better for the test, leaving as it will space for non-traditional dyads/bonds.
All of these movements are ephemeral. America cannot stop the slow creep of greatness.
Women have been marginalized since time immemorial. Gender inequality has been with us forever, unfortunately. Only now, because our so called president has been credibly accused of assaulting women sexually, as have countless other men in power, gender inequality is finally receiving the attention it deserves. Male-female relations are only in decline from a male point of view, because men can't accept that they have been hostile and abusive towards women forever and men can't face being held accountable.
1
How lovely to see that a conservative white male acknowledges that there is much truth to what women have been saying for decades, i.e that there is something rotten, not in the Kingdom of Denmark, but in the position of women in Western society.
When did Mary Wollstonecraft write ?
I am no statistical expert---but, I read those same surveys, and your emphasis on the numbers related to race are problematic---they reflect variability, not significance. Having said that, in my own unrepresentative sampling of women who voted for Trump, I sense a general disdain for his vulgarity and sheer grossness. Obama was correct when he said the Presidency magnifies who you are---and women don't like who Trump is.
1
I don't mean to dumb down Ross' analysis, but Trump is just not likeable no matter his race or gender. He's just got limited appeal as a human being (father, husband, brother, friend, co-worker, boss etc.), let alone POTUS.
It's not rocket science.
1
What is it with the American left? When the left does not like the agenda of a person the Progressives, Liberals and left begin by calling that person a bigot or raciest. This is done repeatedly whether or not there is any factual evidence to support the allegation. In Trumps case there is ample that the man is neither a bigot or raciest.
Trump is as fundamentally divisive and selfish a leader as anyone who has ever held a significant position of political power in the United States. He deems any person of color, any female, any salaried worker, any middle class family or any non-English speaker as someone down his version of the totem pole and worthy of nothing more than exploitation or exclusion IAW his own personal interests and adulation.
Of course, sex will remain predominant in our lives, and trumping other issues demanding resolution (economic inequality a glaring injustice yet; and discrimination by a stupid and abusive'white' entitlement). After all, we are sexual beings requiring a social setting to survive, and thrive...but distorted by us men by abusing our power, especially in the sexual arena. We remain a 'macho' society, and misogyny an awful blotch we seem unable to erase. The fact that we have a sexual predator in the Oval Office doesn't help, as his apparent impunity demonstrates acceptance by one third of the population,women included! Ir seems as though our cultural values are good in some areas, but bad when considering women's role in society, belittling them, likely as a distinct intent of us insecure men to subdue their prowess, more mature and down to earth than ours, perhaps afraid they'll take over. Actually, a period of peace we haven't seen in ages might ensue, to everybody's benefit. If we were living in a truly just society where men and women are co-equal and fully complementary, the Trump's of this world wouldn't have a chance, misfits confined to the fringes of society where they belong.
1
Perhaps now that the Sexual Harassment Epidemic has passed its crisis, we can now enjoy the blossoming Racism Epidemic. When that's over, maybe we'll all just get the Flu.
No disrespect intended, but intellectual analyses of the panic du jour are just becoming difficult to read.
White women haven't hijacked anti-Trumpism. Everyone I know in the women's movement welcomes a broad coalition of groups against Trump that include women's concerns, Black Lives Matter and other groups whose concerns and lives are being trashed by the monster president. We are stronger together and as a woman, I care very much about Trump's virulent racism and the way he is continually trying to wage a race war in our country. Trump's racism is dangerous and disgusting.
Trump didn't try to elevate Black Lives Matter through maligning Kappernick. Trump was attempting to define Black Lives Matter in his own malicious terms to turn people against BLM.
Trump's a pox on our country. His ongoing consistent attempts to foment racial animosity and his continuing disrespect of and disgust toward women horrify the majority of Americans.
He's going to get his behind kicked in the midterms. This country is far better than Trump racism and hatred. When he's out of office he can always set up a tv channel promoting Stormfront where he can tweet and preach to haters and white supremacists all he wants. We don't want him doing this from the Oval Office.
It's a shame we have a president who keeps dumping racist poison into our society.
The American people are going to send Trump down in a historic defeat.
3
No!!!
I actually think many white Americans are now more troubled by institutional racism in our society than ever before. You can thank Trump - the racist in chief - for exposing how deeply embedded in our society racism is and what the racist agenda looks like. I don't know a single person who agrees with or approves the poisonous racism Trump is injecting into our society.
By promoting race hatred, Trump is actually shining a light on this frightening filth. It's even easier to see how disgusting Trump's racism and hatred are when we see millions of people Trump is neglecting to help on Puerto Rico -
half the island still without water, electricity or medical care 6 months after the hurricane. We have never seen such blatant race hatred manifest in an American president in modern times. The destruction is breathtaking. Trump is putting American lives at risk in Puerto Rico because of his racism. He's condemning millions of Americans to suffering because of his racism.
Trump's making the public more aware of racism. He's throwing how horrific racism is into sharp relief. There's nowhere anyone can go now where they won't hear talk about Trump's racism, the racism in Congress and ordinary people talking about how shocking and revolting Trump's racism is. The media isn't inventing this. This is really happening.
Yes the media is focused on this.
But the revolution will not be televised.
The revolution, as Gil-Scott Heron said, will be live.
Interesting column, but:
No one has yet explained in a convincing way why saying that some countries "resemble outhouses" (Haiti's capital does not have a functioning sewer system) is racist.
"the clearest Trump-driven convulsion has been the #MeToo movement...intimate sufferings at the hands of Trump-like elite men." So Harvey Weinstein, huge liberal donor and pal of Bill and Hillary, is "Trump-like"? And a movement that was kicked off by the exposure of Weinstein's abuses is "Trump-driven"? Citation needed.
1
This is mindless nonsense.
Culturally Trump's presidency is the last gasp on the white male retreat. Most men treat women differently than they did in the 50s because women stopped putting up with mistreatment. Trump isn't among that group but his number is dwindling. In 2016 he tricked white women (among others) into voting for him by pretending to be a populist. Most of them now realize that that was a ruse. We can woo, be wooed (is that a verb?) and pair off just fine; Trump is just a cartoon-like throwback and women aren't tolerating him or those like him anymore. That's real progress.
1
to be honest i dont remember true class being mentioned at all in the Times. by this i mean there has been no talk about class as a stand alone group. Marx didn't break down class by race. if you are on minimum wage, i dont care what race or sex you are. Big business and government do not care about you. the democrats lost by playing diversity rather than class politics. overseas working clas politicians understand this. lets have a rrue discussion on class in the US. That should be the true base of the Democrats. Sanders Understand. .
1
I don't understand this white love affair with speaking for black people, particularly since y'all are too often laughably wrong and then the punchline for so many black Twitter jokes. I'm a black lawyer and former business owner with blue collar roots. In my communities we're drawing the right conclusion, since we lived as black during this period and would know, that this isn't the best economic time for us in decade. If the author spoke to black America before deciding that we were having the economic time of our lives, he'd know that we're prepping for a deep recession, that will disproportionately impact us because of Trump's policies. The regrowth of the black economy results from Obama's policies. The author is being knowingly disingenuous to suggest that it's Trump' s doing.
The lie that the economy suddenly, magically bent to Trump's command and improved is the same lie people believe when they buy diet supplements promising that they'll lose 20 pounds in 7 days.
Trump continues to lose women because his predatory behavior and rhetoric hasn’t wavered. I bet most women, whatever our intersectionslity, have dealt with some gross slob like this President with his unwanted sexual overtures, advances, and behavior that too often crosses the line to assault. For many women, whenever Trump speaks we're not reminded of a fun, quirky granddad who likes to eat fast food in bed. We're reminded of the last creep we had to push away and the one before that.
4
After a brief decline, illegal border crossing are on the rise again. According to the New York Times, “Migrant shelters along the southern border are filling up again. Immigration lawyers in the region say their caseloads are spiking. Across the Southwest, border officers are stopping more than 1,000 people a day.” The Border Patrol estimates it intercepts about 50 percent of illegal border crossers, a percentage many Border Patrol officers think is inflated, but is the estimate is accurate, about 1,000 unauthorized immigrants are eluded the Border Patrol day. This works about to 365,000 new unauthorized immigrants a year, not counting visas overstays, who make up about 50 percent of illegal immigrants.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/us/border-crossings-trump-effect.html...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
1
There’s something else under the numbers. Women are now leading men in college, graduate school, med school and law school admissions and graduation rates. Women see a brighter day for themselves if they can just get past the old bulls. Our current era is moving from a time when the work we needed done required muscle or brute force personality. That’s not true today. Today’s jobs require cooperation, teamwork, and emotional intelligence, and women just seem to be better at these kinds of things. I’m convinced that the future is female.
3
Donald Trump is extremely unpopular among nearly every demographic group, as well he should be. Sure, women and minorities are at the head of the class, because those are the groups he most directly targets with his bigotry and vitriol.
But splitting hairs over whether a huge majority or a massive majority of black Americans disapproves of Trump is way off the point, which is that our country has taken a terrible wrong turn with this man, and that our ideals and institutions are under one of the most severe attacks in our history.
1
Ross, it would be helpful, BTW, for someone to define "merit" as applied to immigration, and also "demerit." We want to be sure that it isn't code for "no poor people," or "no people of low education levels." Why don't you do a column on this?
1
American women have witnessed as state by state, not only are our basic rights to bodily autonomy being yanked from underneath us, our access to healthcare access is being challenged and put financially out of reach. We must watch as employers pay for Viagra while birth control is considered some sort of extravagance for loose women, instead of the basic health necessity it is.
On top of everything, we have to suffer the ultimate indignity of the leader of our country, and of the party responsible for the demise of our agency, gleefully bragging about how he enjoys sexual abusing women.
You're danged right, there is a reckoning coming. But this reckoning is not only for women against abuse, but minorities against abuse, and poor people against abuse.
You begin with a supposition that race, gender and class are all separate issues and that these constituencies are disparate entities. They are not. Men should not fear this movement, but embrace it as a friend.
"As we go marching, marching,
we're standing proud and tall.
For the rising of the women
means the rising of us all."
3
It is a falsehood that most insurance pays for Viagra, but not birth control.
Neither Medicare nor Medicaid pay for Viagra, nor does the VA (though TriCare does cover it). Most private insurance specifically excludes erectile drugs.
In any event, erectile drugs and contraception are not related in any way. Viagra is absolutely NOT an aphrodisiac nor is it "spanish fly".
Almost all insurance covered birth control prior to Obamacare -- at least the major methods -- the only difference was THE CO-PAY. Under Obamacare, BC was 100% free instead of having a co-pay.
If someone has insurance that covers Viagra....it would absolutely have a co-pay. So you are arguing about CO-PAYS, not coverage.
1
We should all thank Apple for inventing the camera phone. The only reason attention is being paid now is because the world saw white cops shoot unarmed black teenagers and children. And you can bet Gretchen Carlson had something taped that scared the pants off Fox News (pun intended). We watched Trump brag to a broadcaster about sexually assaulting women -- and men laughed while women cried. There has always been something badly out of joint with male-female relations. Power corrupts. This is not new. It is just being seen by men for the first time.
1
Second wave feminism has failed. It encouraged women to emulate men — in both sex and careers.
From the ‘60s to the ‘90s this mostly worked. There were lots of fun office jobs available for forty hours a week. Life wasn’t too competitive. Sexuality was still held in check by tradition and people’s upbringings.
Now, though, women expect to enjoy the same type of causal sex as men aspire to — when we have only 400 eggs in a lifetime and are biologically programmed to guard them. On top of that, sex is in many ways a pantomime of submission and domination. Just substitute “I want to submit to you” for “I want to have sex with you” — makes it sound like you might want a higher caliber of mate for that, doesn’t it?
Work is becoming hyper competitive. Hours are long. It’s often not much fun. Sixty or eighty hours a week really cuts into a woman’s home life.
That isn’t what we envisioned as teens for our lives. Women are unhappy. Men are unhappy because women are angry with them. We’re seeing convolutions in gender expectations as what was idealized in an easy time meets a harsher era. This is probably the central issue of our time.
How should women live our lives? How much in public, in paid work? How much in the home, in the relative safety of family and with children? #MeToo will redefine sexuality back within marriage, to some extent at least — it’s becoming the only safe space for it. It remains to be seen what else will be redefined.
23
As someone who graduated medical school in 1973, I find it quite surprising that the author thinks the goal of second wave feminists was a "nice office job" with easy hours. Those of us who bested our male friends in math and science were tired of being told we should settle for second class status and mindless careers. We also wanted the opportunity to have children when it was biologically optimal, and to combine caring for family with a career, which is still very difficult to do. (Much more so than for men with wives at home.) But we worked 100 hours a week along with everyone else in training, and after 40 years, I'm still glad I did it.
9
Reply to Joan, why did you want to and why are you glad? I’m genuinely curious. I don’t want to see anyone’s freedom curtailed but at the same time I think you must be extraordinarily energetic to enjoy an intense career AND child rearing, and I do see my daughter’s generation being almost mislead that this should be the “standard life”. My husband works long hours and he loves competition — he’s hard driving and ambitious (for better and worse)! I see far fewer women who enjoy that. Also, he could not do what he does without all my backstage support. I get it when working women say they need a wife.
Just out of curiosity, did your mom help you? I know women who are all in favour of women working but their own stay at home mom basically raised their kids. Or did you have high quality nannies — I’ve known women from India and the Middle East who had awesome careers but only with awesome servants (nothing wrong with servants but that’s not what is portrayed to girls like my daughter as ordinary). Or do you need five hours sleep a night — my most energetic high school friend is a partner with one of the big four, but she was shockingly fit. “Average” women usually don’t have that much energy and shouldn’t assume they can function like that.
Also, why did you want it? Was the work very satisfying? How so? Would that type of job be available today and be as satisfying?
Just because you’re “the best” doesn’t mean you necessarily want to do all that work, either.
2
It'd certainly be nice if we--American men and women together--reassessed our proud American pursuit of being ever busier at work, all year every year till we quit. We play right into corporate America's hands. "What do all those soft Europeans think, having shorter work weeks and all that vacation time? How soft!"
4
There's one simple reason Trump's presidency unleashed this frenzy of female anger that began with the women's march and closed out 2017 with the #MeToo movement. Women saw a blatant misogynist - a man who grossly bragged about sexually assaulting women "and because you're rich they'll let you do it" - win the presidency. This man did NOT win the popular vote. No, that went to the woman who ran against him. The woman who spent the past year on the campaign trail, and the better part of her adult life, navigating the male power structure that told her she "didn't smile enough" or "smiled too much" or asked if she could handle difficult situations with other national leaders in tricky diplomatic situations because of her...well, gender. So, yeah, we're mad.
We're especially mad to find out the way the entire campaign was framed in the media was done so by men who have now been outed as sexual assaulters. It's clear to those of us who are paying attention that women and men in America aren't playing on a level field. Just thinking about this makes me see red. If Douthat thinks things are going to improve any time soon he better either be prepared to make major changes to the way he interacts with women, or be prepared for a long haul.
77
Fine except Trump was a "blatant misogynist" during the 2016 campaign and yet the majority of white women voted FOR him. Where was (white) female anger when it counted? Don't blame men for framing the campaign in a way you didn't like, take responsibility for your (collective) actions.
1
The fact that middle and upper class women in America are that "mad" about the election of Donald Trump shows just how little they truly have to worry about.
Mr. Douthat’s anxiety over the diminished volume of sex is touching, especially coming from someone who does not believe in contraception and abortion. It is not the supposed loss of sexual pleasure that he bemoans but rather the end to uncontrolled procreation which kept women barefoot and pregnant, little better than animals. How much sexual pleasure was experienced by a Victorian woman who knew that for every fleeing moment of intimacy she was going to pay with the lifetime of an unwanted child? I hope the current moment of demanding equality in the workplace is going to put the final nail in the coffin of women being defined by their biological femaleness rather than their human capacity.
56
I saw a new tee-shirt yesterday that said, "A Woman Voting Republican Is Like a Chicken Voting for Colonel Sanders."
Pretty much sums it up, except for explaining why some white women will continue to opt for being battered and deep-fried.
120
White men in America have advanced for 400 years by holding everyone else back. And now they are surprised by the challenge. The situation is a continuation of what white men have done in Europe for the last 2000 years. When we threw off colonial rule, we retained that one ugly trait. It is beyond time for it to go.
59
"holding everyone else back"
Really
Answer this question. Was there really any serious competition?
It is absolutely shocking to discover that middle and upper class white women and media stars are more able to command the media spotlight over sexual harassment and assault then poor blacks are over police harassment, assault and killing. Who would have thought that the underprivileged and their lives are less gripping to the media and their mostly white audience than the experiences of Hollywood actors! Certainly given the choice between covering the death of some unknown black man and covering the bad date of Aziz Ansari we clearly should be focused on Mr. Ansari.
44
Thanks once again for an extremely informative and thoughtful column. All of a sudden I need to think a little differently about the "state of the nation."
2
Fifty percent of the total U.S. population is female. They hail from all "races". Many have men in their lives whom they want to love, but the are having a hard time of it when their men support a president who brags about never having changed a diaper and who views women's worth only as an object of sexual assault. At first, many of these women may have even voted for Trump, thinking there might be some upside to compliance with the omnipresent patriarchy. But, like the poor 17 year old girl who jumped through a window and called 911 for help for her and her 12 siblings imprisoned in a Stockholm Syndrome house of chains, women are crashing through glass ceilings, windows and doors of every imaginable color to help men realize that the gig is up.
55
Ross, certainly as a practicing and sometimes proselytizing Roman Catholic, you must, if not openly admit, realize that much "sex" discrimination and double standard stems from roots of vowed obedience in patriarchal defined marriages where the woman subverts her own interests to that of her man. Much conflict among women has resulted from competition for men because the only available job that allowed stigma free childrearing was that of legal wife. For women, gearing oneself to be subservient is depressing and soul destroying work and our stories are just starting to be told. Beauty pageant owner, playboy, thrice married Trump was born a winner and those who are born winners dislike shaking up the status quo. And, in any "man's world," higher paid men choosing women with which to pair up and maybe marry has been the status quo. It would not surprise me that regardless of skin tone and culture, some men would be willing to support a system in which they are have a better change of succeeding because many of those defined by gender as "less than" go along to get along.
5
Polls? According to the polls on November 7, 2016 Hillary Clinton was about to be elected POTUS. Polls move and polls can mislead.
What's fundamental is that sexual abuse and racism have the same underlying cause - the use of relative advantage (generally either physical strength or economic status) by the seemingly powerful to exploit a weaker victim.
Depending on media coverage people being polled tend to reflect in their responses whatever is dominating the news cycle. Talking about sex now trumping race as a social concern is a misread of the social tensions building up in this country. Mr. Douthat has put too fine a point on that in this column.
Point of fact, widespread social discontent and distress has emerged with considerable force. Its counter-intuitive expression (in a rightward, populist direction) was the election of Donald Trump.
It is now gathering steam and rebounding in new and potentially hard-to-predict directions. Society is fracturing and headed down the path of even greater civil conflict... of all kinds.
The genie is out of the bottle. It is not returning any time soon.
3
Middle-aged white women might indeed be leading “the resistance,” but that demographic preferred Trump over his opponent in the 2016 election - and Trump’s sexism and crudeness were not exactly a secret prior to that vote.
While DC Dems would surely love to focus on that demographic in the upcoming elections, such a move is likely to achieve the same results as 2016 - generally speaking, white women will vote to maintain their white privilege over any other consideration. And that’s the implicit promise of Trump.
Dems and liberals ought to instead look for ways to energize and inspire the Obama’s coalition - a formula that won two elections. One that Clinton discounted in her campaign’s foolish quest for moderate Republicans. A winning coalition exists, and it won more votes in ‘08 and ‘12 than Trump won in ‘16.
5
Spot on. No one seems to want to notice that Donald Trump and Mitt Romney got almost exactly the same number of votes in Wisconsin. Clinton lost the state because she got a lot less votes than Obama. Even those numbers showing a higher percentage of rural white men voting for Trump ignore that reality. The percentage was higher not because more of them voted for Trump, but because fewer of them voted for Clinton.You can argue whether that was sexism or a lousy campaign or a crummy candidate. But it doesn't really say much about Trump's supporters.
1
I'm not sure I can trust the current feminist movement on other progressive causes..
In a "liberal" city like Boston if you are a man of the "wrong" color, or a low income earner, you will be socially rejected in countless of ways by the same white feminists who attended the women marches at Boston common and Washington DC, not to mention their notorious reputation of ostracizing female feminists of color, and last time I checked their is a support for trump among (college educated white women in Massachusetts) that is way above the 0 mark that you would assume from their rage..
2
"We don't know, for instance, what's happening with the crime rate after the late-Obama-era spike."
This is cleverly worded to insinuate that President Obama's policies led to an increase in crime. In fact, violent crime rates fell 18 percent during his term in office and property crime rates fell 24 percent. It is true that certain violent crime rates increased in his last two years from their all-time low in 2014, but property crime continued to fall. so the overall number of felonies continued to decrease. Calling the fluctuations around a decreasing trend a "spike" suggests some kind of unravelling in public safety, which is not the case, and placing them within the "late-Obama-era" rather than, say, "the past two years" is intended to convey that there was some kind of chickens-coming-home-to-roost effect of Obama policies. This is the kind of half-truth statement that feeds the construction of alternative realities in the conservative media.
3
This article is bizarre. It seems to be written with the goal of providing Trump cover by 1) admitting the "presidency’s bigotry" is happening and 2) claiming that despite that, things are improving for the racial minorities regardless.
Part of this argument is the initial conjecture that Trump is "holding his own or actually gaining ground with blacks and Hispanics". Looking at the Morning Consult polling, you can see Trump's approval among hispanics 10 points and among blacks 3 points (from an already sub-20 level at the start of his presidency). Given that this statement is just wrong, I can't say that much of the rest of the column makes a whole lot of sense.
It's also weird hearing about the "tweet noting an all-time-low in the black unemployment rate was not wrong: These are the best economic times for African-Americans in a decade". Of course the unemployment rate for *any* segment is really low. The overall unemployment rate happens to be really low. I bet the rate for women happens to be really low right now too, so does that mean there are actually no problems with gender relations? Low unemployment doesn't necessarily "the best economic times". Lots of people in this country are still struggling despite having a job.
1
I once read that as a problem nears a solution radicals on both sides of a question creep out of the woodwork in large numbers. This explains 2 of 3 problems cited in this article.
In terms of male female relations in the work place I haven’t seen anyone look at the milatary’s solution. No personal relationships in the same chain of command. This can also apply to senior to junior relationships across the board. These two rules will result in a fair workplace with neither advantage taking or favoritism.
I'm just going to focus on poll results.
To state that a poll result changed by 5% over some period of time is utterly meaningless. One only need to revisit polling activities during the last presidential election cycle. Survey Monkey poll results are utterly useless.
In dice games in a casino, step size is known, points in the sample space are known to be independent, and the distribution is known to be Gaussian.
NONE of this holds true in polling, or virtually any such measuring method in social science. Step size ranges over orders of magnitude, sample points are not independent, distributions are not Gaussian. One needs to increase any sample space by orders of magnitude to establish the type of distribution.
1
Exactly. Thank you.
Ross,
I have watching and all I can say is cynicism is growing stronger and democracy is growing smaller as truth becomes more allusive.
America's evolution toward democracy is in reverse as the lies about what drove European immigration get ever more distorted.
We came because the 1% owned everything and all we could do in Europe is subsist.
If I here one more false comment about the Irish Starvation I will explode. Ireland had lots of food but the 1% with the help of the parliament at Westminster decided not to feed its poor. Ireland exported food and 60% had all the food they could buy only the poor starved and the disappearance of 75% of the impoverished population was deliberate. While the poor of Ireland were deported the migration of people like my great grandparents was economic in origin and the 1% owned everything.
Today we call this economic system neoliberalism. It is the ideology of the USA and it is why democracy is dying.
It is the insatiable greed that drives your country that has created your problems. Liberalism created wealth and equality. What you call conservatism is the distillation of greed to excuse the pain and misery of what we now call neoliberalism.
"Suppose that you were asked to assess the state of American society under Donald Trump, the essence of our problems and divisions, without any access to the president’s own words or the media coverage thereof."
I guess the answer depends on who that "you" is. It doesn't take much to imagine who Ross' "you" is.
1
This goes much deeper than sexual relationships between men and women. Women want to be treated equally in all aspects of their lives, on the job, in the home, in being fairly represented, to medical care.
Women have been outraged by leaders not being held accountable for their sexual misdeeds. We need, not only clarity on what constitutes a crime, but what is the most just way to deal with it.
Thank goodness it is exceedingly difficult to do gerrymandering along gender lines. Given today's political world, I wouldn't be surprised if some states tried this brain teaser. I truly believe that men won't be liberated until women are.
1
I would only add to this excellent piece that Roy Moore, and the GOP's and Trump's embrace of him, was an unusual slap in the face for women. His creepy behavior made headlines, but anyone who looked closely into the story found that the GOP would have forgiven, say, a candidate Dylaan Roof as long as he supported judges who oppose abortion. One also notes that evangelicals seem to be Trump's most loyal supporters, and again, this returns to conservative judges who are fighting "a war on the unborn." But if the GOP is now at war to save more embryos, if it's really Roy Moore's party, then the enemy combatants are women. If embryos must live, some women must be sacrificed. This hasn't helped the gender divide that Douthat mentions.
3
I agree that race relations are not getting worse. The US has had many bigoted presidents before, and some of them even fought for minority rights like Johnson and Nixon, both having strong bigoted tendencies. The media uproar is just a politically destructive side show for most citizens. The bigger problem is the way that our media, our congress and our judicial system are behaving towards elections and democracy and the hypocritical attacks on marketing campaign motives. If our media system is not strong enough to withstand the fact that foreign countries have motives and agendas just like corporations, then the system itself is in deep peril. Mindless profit machines cannot run media outlets in a beneficial way.
But I don't think gender relations among the population are getting worse either.
I think both race relations and gender relations are getting worse within all of our elite systems, both corporate and governmental.
The population doesn't change its attitudes very easily based upon the words of government officials or media figures. It is as though the media and the government operate in their own universe separate from the population.
The main divide that is opening and destroying our system is happening due to a nearly 100% negative political system. If the corporate media and the politicians can successfully polarize the population in their voting habits over 100% negative attacks, there will be no motive for either of them to serve their voters.
The notion that male/female relations are worsening seems like a very male-centric view of things. I'm sure that women are starting to feel more empowered. Now, for some, maybe this worsens relationships, but to many others, myself included, I'm happy that things are moving the way they are. Difficult, but necessary.
1
By appealing to the most disaffected men, Trump stirs up the men most likely to make trouble for the women in their lives. Women will support a candidate who's trying to create jobs for their husbands and sons. Not everything women like has to be targeted to them specifically, and it's not hard to see why a woman benefits from having more of her relatives employed.
However, on average, women are less happy to see their male relations become more bigoted and foul-mouthed, and even more addicted to Fox News.
1
I mostly agree with everything right up to the blatant conclusion: "But there is strong evidence that our problems with sex and gender and male-female relations are worsening". Wrong. There is strong evidence that our problems with male-female relations are simply becoming much more obvious! The problems are NOT worse at all, they have been there all along, that is obvious, even to a man like me; I think that the current activity in female empowerment is evidence of improvement in male-female relationships, or at least it will eventually lead there, and cheer $metoo on from the side lines.
75
The reason black men with no college can't get work is that employers prefer illegal aliens. These employers believe illegal aliens will work harder for less pay in more unpleasant working conditions, and they are not wrong. Is such a correct view of the world racism?
But the black guys certainly know this. During the campaign, I asked some of the porters at my gym in Manhattan, folding towels and mopping the floors for $9.50 an hour, if they thought they could get a better job if there were no illegal aliens. Most of them had little doubt. They may have little in the way of skills to offer employers, but they are no dummies and understand what is going on.
4
Jonathan: that "meme" is repeated endlessly in these forums -- Americans "won't do _____ jobs". Americans don't work hard. Americans are lazy. Americans are all obese. Americans are all on SSDI. Americans are all oxycontin addicts.
The sayers of those hateful things are liberals in blue cities, thinking they are "getting one off" on white working class Americans -- telling them they are inferior to hard-working, moral, decent illegal aliens.
But in fact....the REAL displaced Americans (displaced by ILLEGALS) are working class and poor BLACKS, especially black MEN.
Every illegal alien represents an entry level, working class job that likely was done 20 years ago by a BLACK American -- construction, truck driving, landscaping, roofing, food service, etc.
Black Americans know this. What lefty libs do not realize is that there is a lot of mutual dislike between black AMERICANS and hispanic ILLEGAL ALIENS.
1
Liberals liberals are more concerned with what Trump thinks and saysthan with what government does.
I am still waiting for better schools, better jobs, and better health care.
8
Amen!
Donald Trump is the Birther-Liar 'grab 'em by the pussy' candidate that 63 million Deplorables flocked to who heard his thinly veiled promise to Make America White Again by turning off the faucet from 'shithole' countries.
In the meantime, he and the GOP oligarchs just gave away the farm with billionaire tax cuts and are shredding the safety net for 99% of Americans, shredding the environment for oil profits and Grand Old Pollution, working hard to shred healthcare into bits and pieces, and stacking the courts with corporate judges via yet another Republican-hijacked election by the minority.
Trump and the 2016 Russian-Republican coup d'tat are flat-out assault on American democracy and representative government.
The racism, sexism and genderism layered on top is just salad dressing on the Grand Old Poison that is the Republican overthrow of American democracy.
We're all going to have to campaign hard this year to reverse this GOP putsch at the voting booth.
https://www.usvotefoundation.org/vote/voter-registration-absentee-voting...
"Don't boo.....vote !"
87
So many make the mistake of assuming those who voted for Trump did so because they liked his personality. So much empirical data attest that in fact those who swung the election were desperate to escape the downward mobility Clintonism did so much to create (and Obama, whom millions of these people had supported) did little to correct. If we can't understand why they held their noses and voted for change Clinton was never going to give them, we will be helpless to remedy the deep problems that globalization and neoliberalism (synonyms for Clintonism) brought the bottom half of the US population.
3
"So much empirical data attest that in fact those who swung the election were desperate to escape the downward mobility Clintonism did so much to create"
So why did upper middle class white people elect Trump? Are white college graduates more at risk than everyone else? Are people in the upper income levels at greater risk. Are white women at greater risk? I don't think so. Yet they all voted for Trump. Trump got elected by white people based on race and class. It wasn't lower class, it was the upper class.
2
Donald John Trump was a serial adulterer serial sexual assaulter harasser. Just like Mr. William Jefferson Clinton but with two more wives. Hillary lacked any credibility in dealing with Trump's misogyny with a rooster husband like Bill.
The last three paragraphs definitely ring true to me, even though it seems most readers are ignoring them. He's not talking about politics or candidates in these paragraphs, he's pointing out social trends. As an older, grieving widow, I find myself very much out of step with "leftish" acquaintances who seem to feel I should be happy to be alone and "free" from love and the "oppressive" embrace of my life partner. I also can't relate to younger generations and their hookup culture, where maybe two weeks of monogamy now counts as what we used to call a "long term relationship". I think Mr Douthat is right.
4
The political divide between the sexes did not start with Trump; the divide between women who tend to have Democratic values and men who tend to have Republican values for years. In fact, the political divide -- 20% -- during the Obama/Romney election was higher that in had ever been before 2008. Although the increasing political divide can be attributed to the rise of Fox News, the divide between liberals and conservatives doesn't just exist in the US, it appears in other countries, too, without regard to age.
Women tend to hold Democratic values such as tolerance for others who are different, help for the poor and vulnerable, protecting the environment from pollution, investing in society (as opposed to only investing in business), and preserving personal freedom from government intervention in such issues as the decision to conceive children; whereas men tend to hold Republican values such as supporting the primacy of freedom of business interests above all else, refraining from helping the poor, and controlling women's healthcare and pregnancy decisions.
Because the values of Democrats and Republicans differ so greatly, and because women tend to vote Democratic, 75 percent of marriages are between men and women who share the same politics, and mixed marriages suffer, especially when it comes time to raise teenage children.
Trump merely exacerbated these trends by doubling down on everything Democratic women find repugnant.
8
Identity politics, whether based on gender or race or orientation, is almost always about burying the questions of class & the political economy that really determine who has power & who does not. Crucifying a few celebrities is not going to empower women who work at Walmart. Treating the undocumented immigrants that our economy depends on decently would be good for everyone, but it won't give the working poor (or the middle class, for that matter) one whit of the political power that belongs to the wealthy.
Trump won the election because a lot of working class people instinctively know that they're getting a bad deal. But the fact that they could be manipulated into seeing women & the poor, rather than billionaire crooks like Mr Trump, as the enemy, tells you all you need to know about Republican politics. And the fact that the Democrats can draw a line about immigrants & about sexual harrassment, but not about regulating Wall Street, and not about a tax bill designed to undermine Medicaid & Medicare & Obamacare in order to throw more money at the rich....tells you all you need to know about the Democrats.
7
Martin writes, "And the fact that the Democrats can draw a line about immigrants & about sexual harrassment, but not about regulating Wall Street, and not about a tax bill designed to undermine Medicaid & Medicare & Obamacare in order to throw more money at the rich....tells you all you need to know about the Democrats."
What? How many Democrats voted for the republican corporate and wealthy tax welfare bill? Who started the Consumer Protection Bureau and who wants to gut it? Yes, Bill Clinton and the Democrats went along with Alan Greenspan and the republicans to let Wall Street loose, but it's the Democrats who reigned it back in after 2008...and the republicans who want to let it loose again.
Arguments with alternative facts don't fly regardless of who the target is.
1
RumpleSS: one writes these things quickly, usually just after waking up. I was thinking of the degree to which the Democratic leadership has made a public campaign about sexual harassment in Washington & Hollywood. I was thinking that, to be proportionate in their response to the tax bill, even if they were only considering its effect on women, they should have been staging sit-ins in the House & Senate, exploring legal action to block the bill, they should be mounting publicity campaigns. My larger point is that fighting for a living wage, saving Social Security & expanding Medicare, & fighting the huge disparities in economic & political power, would do a lot more to empower women against abusive men than hounding Al Franken out of office.
The level of trust between young men and young women is in free fall. This matters because we already have very low trust levels in this society.
Almost all the writing about this is by young women and much of what I read by young feminists often grosses me out about young male behavior. Their writing also reveals a deep misunderstanding of what it is like to have a male body, and assumes male behavior arises purely from social structures and how men are raised, and can be policed by lots of rules, with no role for biological / hormonal differences. Assumptions by young feminist writers that the average male libido is the same as the average female libido are counter-factual. For men, on average, love is deepened (and sometimes only ignited by) sex. Men on average also experience sex as pure play behavior. I don't think women on average experience sex the same way, and they shouldn't be expected to. But neither should they expect to be able to control what is acceptable to men. That is the opposite of consent.
Two decades of 60-40 (F-M) graduation rates have produced an "economic" imbalance in which educated, heterosexual young men in major cities have greater sexual "marketplace" value because of their relative scarcity, which in turn means their sexual desires are preferenced in a way that devalues women's sexual and romantic desires.
We are seeing a dialog of the deaf.
6
Frank: GREAT post! Loved the first and next to last paragraph. Re the second to last paragraph - the impression I get is that women's traditional "romantic desires" are now considered politically incorrect, regressive, hopelessly passe and useless...
"And I’m not denying the reality of that racism, which has been apparent since Trump embraced birtherism and which plainly informs his views on immigration more than the commitment to merit-based migration policy that his minders and managers have been trying to advance."
Only a white man could write that sentence and then move on to something "more consequential."
6
I suspect that the unwavering support for Trump by a certain number of African-American men is based on Trump's unyielding opposition to immigration. In many community discussions, I have seen how heavily the fear of losing job opportunities to outsiders weighs among otherwise liberal-leaning black men. In the great immigration debate, this is a subject that needs much more attention.
5
I'm sure your analyses are spot on. What I think is that those who are peeling away, whatever their gender or race, are those who expect a high level of decency from our President, decency in words and actions, a real effort to speak to us all. He's not delivering that, has no intention of doing that. See you at the polls.
3
Divisions concerning race and gender (or religion or sexuality or . . . etc) are frequently ginned up and exploited to elide injustices imposed by wealth inequality.
Thoughtful women and men are struggling with why the richest nation on earth has such deplorable healthcare and educational systems when other nations with fewer resources are putting us to shame while building better futures for their children.
3
Joseph-- spot on. The dems are missing a golden opportunity to UNITE the disunited states under these very issues. I am nearing retirement. As a white upper middle class white woman, my need for social security and medicare is not one bit different than the need of the Asian housepainter, the black nurse or doctor, the hispanic engineer-- and all the rest of the alphabet soup that make us a nation. As citizens in the richest country in the history of the world, we will not flourish because the DOW is climbing to ridiculous highs or because our politicians are deregulating industries, with the banks to follow (yikes!). We want (and are entitled to) what -- ahem-- Norway has. Good healthcare, great education for our youth, and a secure retirement for our elders.
If you are correct, Ross, it might be a seismic shift in American sensibilities as well as in political associations. If you might recall, just 10 years ago, Oprah Winfrey, the current darling of the American left, abandoned her feminist credentials to Support Obama rather than Clinton.
For people of color, color trumps identity and association. For "white" women, who generally take their color for granted, it seems to be gender. For the rich, it is income and wealth. And for people with strong and sincere religious convictions, guess what, it's religion.
2
Two notable points from this worst of times:
Women are finally speaking up about the degradation they have suffered for not years, not decades, but for centuries.
We have a individual in the Oval Office who has been a primary offender and no one feels compelled to make that an issue for his removal from office. In other words, women speak, and march and rail, but no one really cares and the patriarchy roles along mostly immune.
We've got a long way to go, baby.
2
Mj in the middle, how easily your point is also dismissed when this is so obvious !
Gender relations are not worsening as Mr. Douthat asserts. It is simply that women have finally achieved enough power in our culture to push back against domination and abuse by men in more effective and significant ways. And they have been motivated by the current political moment to use it. The problems have been there all along, just quieter. If women demanding an end to abuse, harassment and exploitation makes things worse for you, you may be operating on some faulty assumptions.
5
I think with female empowerment you are going to see "fewer marriages." Among my friends, I know one really great guy who was faithful while his wife cheated. I have frankly lost count of the number of women I have known who were faithful to cheating husbands, but the instance of this has decreased over time. Women aren't going to put up with the stuff they used to anymore. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
3
I suspect that the #MeToo movement has nothing to do with Trump. At most he was a catalyst to a reaction that would have happened anyway.
Pundits all imagine, wrongly, that the President is the most important character in everyone's personal narrative and that Twitter is a universal communication node. It's a sort of lazy form of thinking, dependent on the press releases that appear in their in-box.
Laurence is correct about lazy thinking; I find it sad that the NYT prints columns as wavery as today's bowl of Jello by Ross was. We have imperialized our presidency to the detriment of democracy, and the media has been complicit in this, at least since their hero worship of then-candidate Obama. Columnists need to dig deeper into the items that unite us and those that divide us-- not focus on how many twitters an unqualified president sends each day.
There's even better evidence that we focus on things like polarization between the sexes in order to AVOID talking about the work and possibly total reconstruction of society that dealing with our national racism would entail.
2
African Americans comprise about 15 percent of the U.S. population. Women comprise 50 + percent. There's your explanation right there.
3
I wonder if it is time to move away from (over) polling and analyzing of this data and focus more on reporting about what is actually happening in the country and how these happenings impact various constituencies. From there, we could move on to an in-depth examination of our options. I welcome the expression of opinion regarding political matters but I would prefer that the opinions have a practical impact. We have already observed that polling data is of limited value. It is not clear how many eligible voters actually participate in these polls and how reliable the data is for that reason. Most Trump supporters no longer trust polls (which is understandable) and arguably, the purpose of much of the polling appears to be merely academic and initiated for the mere amusement of the so-called “liberal elite.” This is not necessarily my assessment (I am interested in the trends and your opinion but do have concerns about the integrity of so much polling data) but does appear to represent the perception of many other Americans who have tuned you out.
5
A majority of white women voted for Trump, a majority of white college graduates voted for Trump, Trump won every income level over $50,000, the overwhelming majority lived in urban/suburban areas. It wasn't sex, education, income or urban/rural divide that distinguished Trump voters. It was that they were white.
18
An early commenter noted: “White men do not deserve to be the recipient of centuries of pent-up rage and frustration, just because they are white men. But they do need to learn to listen to other human beings who are not, and have had different experiences of what it is to be an American.”
I agree. So I’m elaborating, not disagreeing, when I say confronting the facts about white supremacy and being racialized as white is one thing; but more or less immutably correlating those facts with individuals in such a way that, for example, “white male” functions in some circles as a snarl word is another thing altogether.
But I’ll add the following. There are important analogies between racial inequality and gender inequality. Women once could not vote or own property, marital rape was not generally recognized by the law, and women were artificially kept down when it came to receiving an education and entering the workforce.
But there are also important ways that the analogy fails. Men bore some burdens to a greater degree than women in ways that I think were reflected in the mortality tables and how men were raised. Women often had prerogatives in their domain and in shaping their husband that needed to fade as women entered the workforce and men took on household responsibilities. There’s an inherent inequality under slavery and Jim Crow that does not pertain to sexual relations between consenting adults.
1
The evils of race and sex are intertwined, like strands of DNA. Ross knows that. He needs to quit his false flag. His sociology is neither insight or accurate. It exploits a history of shared oppression. It displays the thinking of a writer tied to the gremlins of white privilege, confused by a moral failure and seeking narratives of blame and division, a hierarchy of temporal oppression within the cesspool of conservatism that can't pass a continuation of healthcare for children and wants to force 13 million adults off insurance and put the retired income of America in the private hands that less than a decade ago crashed the world's economy and wiped out America's family net worth. Ranking oppression isn't a solution.
19
A victory anywhere is a victory against the dark forces everywhere. If women lead, as shown by election after election around the globe, people of color are willing and proud to follow. No division exists about the common enemies of both. Before Roy Moore, there was Strom Thurmond. And now these common enemies have decreed Puerto Rico be taxed if it were a foreign country, a deliberate change put into the new law that will kill the island's manufacturing and hurt both the recovery and future progress.
The rise of women leads, not divides; a discussion of who's on top deflects from the many fronts under attack. Dignity and prosperity for everybody!
4
thanks
now i don't have to wade through Mr. Douthat's opinion
The word that you are searching for, Ross, is "intersectionality," which presents the idea that one identity--race, gender, sexuality, religion, class, ethnicity--does not define an individual's experience in the world, but rather the intersection of all those identities must be considered to gain understanding of how people operate. Upper middle class white women who voted for Trump did so because, for them, their class as well as their whiteness led them to make what some theorists call the "patriarchal bargain" because it benefits them materially and socially. The reason why white working-class women are falling away from their support, despite the fact that many operate within the circle of evangelical Christianity, is because their whiteness cannot compete with the social, economic, and cultural challenges of being working-class. Trump has not addressed any of the issues that keep such women up at night: the opioid epidemic, the lack of good public education, the lack of opportunity for their children, the loss of public assistance that feeds and clothes and provides healthcare for those children. All of these are going to come home to roost and they will overwhelm the simple fact of the privilege of whiteness in America.
While working-class men might also be concerned about those issues, too, those who support Trump do so because of their fears of giving up what maleness gives them. They don't want others in their small sandbox.
31
I disagree with the conclusion that the increasing disapproval of Trump by women is evidence of a problem.
Instead, it is the increasing coalescing of an enormous faction of voters who will not tolerate a president who habitually assaults and demeans women. This faction is composed not just of women but also of men, especially fathers like me with daughters.
It was black women (an incredible 98%) in Alabama who were responsible for the election of Doug Jones and the defeat of Roy Moore, a Trump proxy. The majority of white women still voted for Roy Moore, but Alabama will never be in the vanguard of women's rights.
So I think the gender "problem" is more of a welcome sign that the days of Trumpism are numbered.
10
Mr. Douthat, everything has worsened in America because of this president and his administration. His Hollywood Access video made him widely unpopular with women of all races and economic classes well ahead of the #Me Too movement that began with the Harvey Weinstein revelations. Older white men identify with the president. Maybe they see the end of the entitlement and privilege they've enjoyed since the founding of this country.
His unpopularity with men and women of minority classes shouldn't surprise anyone. His enmity to black and Latino males is well known. This president has not made America great again. He has divided Americans by race and religion, ignored the economic concerns of his base and has been obsessed with promoting his own brand with the trappings of the presidency, with the blessings of his party.
And finally, sir, "the best economic times for African-Americans in a decade" is not due to any concerns of job opportunities for black and brown people by this president or his administration, but by his hated predecessor, Barack Obama, who pulled America out of an unemployment nightmare and a financial quagmire he inherited from George W. Bush. Now that, Mr. Douthat, was a mess!
219
America was born denying the humanity of enslaved Africans. America was nurtured denying the equality of segregated Africans.
Who cares if African Americans are doing better compared to their past? Their only relevant comparison is to European Americans past and present.
1
The emergence of the #metoo movement has a simpler basis. Nearly everyone has daily contact with women who can relate cringe-worthy stories about creepy male behaviors. By contrast, fewer people have the same close contact with Latinos and African-Americans.
For example, while people can debate over the appropriate punishment for the supervisor who engages in inappropriate touching, they can all agree that the conduct is wrong and needs to stop.
1
The ease, comfort, and enthusiasm with which folks like the author slander and libel the president and others who don't fall in line with Progressivie/Feminist orthodoxy is despicable. The hyper-concern with words over policies and results is also disturbing. The economy is roaring, and Trump is taking action to protect the American people from harm. Harping on use of innocuous rhetoric is shameful. This is the dividing line between left and right. Talk vs. action; feelings vs. truth.
10
Step away from the Kool-Aid, Philpy. You are all wrong on this one.
Words are the cornerstone of communication.
The 'roaring economy' helps only the top 1%.
Trump's actions bring more harm than anything in our past.
Rhetoric is never innocuous.
And as far as feelings vs truth is concerned, the right's truth is their feelings or 'gut,' which has no necessary bearing on the inherent truth of facts and data.
15
Denigrating others for their race, gender, sexual orientation, abilities, or national origin is not innocuous.
And being unclear on this point shows exactly who you think are "real Americans" except you are referring only to a minority of Americans. The rest of us are rising against this lie.
I am a white middle aged woman with family members who are white, black, and Asian; Jewish, Buddhist, Christian, and atheist; straight, gay, and trans. Except for 3 white nonJewish males, the entire rest of my family is under assault and we are not ignoring this threat.
12
"Trump is taking action to protect the American people from harm"...depends on how you define harm. Yes, the economy is roaring, based on an overevaluated stock market, a new tulip variety called Bitcoin, and a middle class spending on credit. Trump has tried at every turn to take away our health insurance, and even the most vulnerable,our children, are now threatened with lack of health care. Our standing in the world has fallen, and China is filling in the gap. Russia is figuring out new ways to hack our elections because zero attention is being paid to this issue. Our Federal lands are being auctioned off to the highest bidder. Oh, and the people of Puerto Rico, they are safer than ever?
9
Ross is over thinking the poll results. The explanation is fairly simple. White women represent a greater impact on Trump's approval ratings because there are more white women to convince. There just aren't as many minds to change in the brown and black communities. Therefore, minority opinions aren't going to change as much either. Most minorities were anti-Trump before and they are still anti-Trump now. The same thing is not true among white women.
Allow me to demonstrate. 90 percent of black women voted for Hillary Clinton. 53 percent of white women voted for Donald Trump. Do you see my point? There a whole lot of white women out there who are only just beginning to disapprove of Donald Trump. By contrast, black women pretty much had his number pegged from the start.
You also don't need someone focused on the primacy of race to notice how feminism is attempting to hi-jack anti-Trumpism. Kristin Gillibrand is a case in point. However, I'm not sure the issue is as racial polarized as this opinion might suggest. Feminist activists are primarily white but that doesn't mean the black community is necessarily hostile to the cause. Maybe white women just have more time to stand around with pickets. Even more simply, there are more white women around.
I'm not sure. I'll let you decide. I will offer one warning though. Democrats should be wary of structuring a 2020 campaign around race and gender. It didn't work last time. You might want to set aside identity politics this time.
78
I'm rather tired of calling the Democrats' consideration of race and gender as "identity politics" while the Republicans' focus ONLY on what white men, and pretty much rich white men, is THE most focused "identity politics" in America!
I guess "identity" matters only when it is not your identity.
1
The Democrat who wins will be the one who stays away from gender and race politics and correctly names the culprit of the majority of our nation's woes - that top 1% - and how to remedy the current political and economic climate that continues to feed this cancer upon us. Donald Trump is just the festering, outward sign of this malignancy and needs to be excised (hopefully by impeachment or criminal charges) before we start doing chemo.
2
Re complaints about "identity politics", at least as voiced by the GOP and the Trumpist base, these complaints have the same implausibiity as complaints about "class warfare" from that same source. The GOP has perpetrated both strategies in a harmful way.
2
"But there is strong evidence that our problems with sex and gender and male-female relations are worsening - "
Why do conservatives always think that a problem is growing worse when we simply recognize it? The #MeToo movement isn't addressing a new problem. It is pointing out a problem that has been ignored for too long.
472
Medusa writes, "Why do conservatives always think that a problem is growing worse when we simply recognize it? The #MeToo movement isn't addressing a new problem. It is pointing out a problem that has been ignored for too long."
But sexual predation is not the problem Ross believes is getting worse. Relations between the sexes is the issue he sees as in decline...and there is evidence for this in rates of marriage and births.
1
Yes but the #MeToo movement was founded 10 years ago by a black woman named Tarana Burke 10 years ago.
She was ignored by condescending paternalistic white liberal pity and condescending paternalistic white conservative contempt. Neither accept the diverse individual unique agency and humanity of black people.
Black lives don't matter in America as much as white lives.
2
Let us hope that American women are awoken to the clear and present danger that the Republican Party poses. The Party is led entirely by old, nasty white men who come from Congressional districts that produce almost nothing but vitriol. The Party’s base is evangelicals (forever discredited) and old white men terrified of dying, and hence full of anger at the world they must soon leave.
13
Flagged for ageism, reverse sexism, and reverse racism.
I keep reading Mr. Douthat’s columns, hoping to see truly balanced conservative commentary. But, as always one runs into the “late Obama-era spike” in crime comment. You could simply say the 2015 spike, but in seemingly every column you find a way to blame Obama, implicitly or explicitly, for societal woes. Try sometimes, to write a column without that little pander to those conservatives desperate to malign the 44th president.
36
Why not write an essay instead on "How Facts Trumped Ideology"?
3
I think you hit a nerve, sir. Employment prospects, performance in school, and health in general are all better for women and worse for men. In less than a generation, the world has reversed for working class men and working class women, and men have gotten the worse of it. But how do you rage at the woman who shares your bed? At your own daughters? At your grandchildren who are female? You can't, and that makes everything inside boil.
In many respects, the real effect of the 2009 recession was to weed out over-50 men, through off-shoring and right-to-work laws, who employers felt were overpaid. Women over 50 survived because they generally got paid less. Now we are seeing the backlash, and the counter-backlash. But the reason behind all of it was that the top 5 percent wanted to keep more of the money and they set up a political moment where they could do just that. The key to that was to turn male working rage upon "the other," instead of the people who worked diligently to severely limit the prospects of those in the bottom three quintiles, and it worked spectacularly well.
And they got their tax cut, so your sons will face the same world, maybe even a little worse, for their entire lives. And you voted for them.
27
Trump's popularity among Latino men over 50 (wishing for a return to patriarchy), will disappear when Trump becomes the war president to get re-elected. The GOP learned after 9/11 that war keeps a president in his seat. Watch for it.
3
That’s the narrative that racists are pushing
Including some mainstream media
“Women” in mass media means white women: the issues that come up are not what a black or Latino woman would pursue. There is a dangerous monotheism to that term: the goal seems to be that all women should give their political power to this one banner.
The gender movement is too dominated by well to do white women and ignores several important factions: brown women and poor women. These women have serious needs that aren’t being addressed by the movement.
Women’s movement doesn’t address that the pay gap between brown women and white women is just as large as any pay gap. It won’t address that white women can be racist as well: majority votes for trump. These white women want Latinos out and will disassemble health care, criminal justice reform etc because they want white power.
I have serious concern that it’s just an attempt to ignore the intractable problem of race.
White women will be fine because they’re white. They come from white families with white men. They will narrow the gap with white men.
America will then move to tackle the environment and transgender issues before it addresses race issues because the frank goal is white dominion over the nation. You can’t be a liberal and accept racism. Stop finding new things to distract folks with. Racism and poverty has always been America’s number one issue.
2
If you think "white women will be fine because they are white", you have never seen the millions white women living in trailer parks or low income senior housing. You are just relying on stereotypes.
Gender trumps race because half the planet is made up of women! The #metoo movement is an awakening for women; we are beginning to envision how startlingly different life on this planet will be once women are free and empowered world wide.
120
Maybe not as different as you think. Men and women act in *more* gender-stereotypical ways in Scandanavian countries, where the most effort has been made to "free and empower " women.
"...only a small proportion of Nordic women choose to work as managers and professionals. Most choose lower-paid, highly gender-segregated work....
Despite vigorous efforts to stamp out gender stereotyping, most Swedish girls would still rather be daycare workers and nurses when they grow up. And boys would rather be welders and truck drivers. And that’s not all. To the extreme chagrin of social engineers throughout Scandinavia, mothers still take the bulk of parental leave. Most men take parental leave only when a certain part of it is designated for fathers only."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/do-women-really-have-it-better-i...
It's almost as if there are innate differences....
1
Misogyny is much, much older than racism. It is also so ingrained in almost all cultures that it feels natural to many men and unfortunately, to too many women.
2
Gender trumps nothing because there is only one human race. Not all women are black like the founder of the 10 year old #MeToo movement Tarana Burke. Numbers don't matter as much in gender relations as much as socioeconomic political educational history and biological science.
1
Regardless of whether gender trumps race or vice versa, the common denominator here is identity. Whether an effective coalition against President Trump can be based on divergent identities is somewhat debatable. Arguments over the primacy of identities may only aid Trump insofar that it plays into his game of divide and conquer.
If the Democrats desire gains in the House and Senate this year and recapture the White House in 2020, they must find a candidate who can articulate an agenda based on universality. Pandering to identity politics doesn't allow for this.
5
It's all identity politics. Your being blind to the fact that white male identified politics is accepted and miss-read as the norm demonstrates only that you are blind to the identity politics you already believe in.
You make a curious assertion about white male identity politics in view of the fact that the number of said people voting for Trump was actually lower than for Romney in 2012. Seriously. Democrats must stop indulging in facile and false narratives that Trump`s fluke triumph emanated from racism and sexism if they wish to regain any power in the USA. Heck, the percentage of AA males voting Republican doubled in 2016, so how do you explain that?
Hillary lost in 2016 not because of sexist and racist white males; rather, she lost because legions of Democrat and Independent voters couldn't vote for someone who was Republican in disguise. Please, smell the coffee already, and I'm not talking about lattè, either.
I found this piece confounding, and will read the Brownstein article in the Atlantic and come to my own conclusions.
Meanwhile, I think some euphemisms should be expunged from Mr. Douthat’s vocabulary - and everyone’s - starting with “birtherism”. If that sentence said “that President Obama was a foreigner - or even alien”, the true intent would be clearer.
And the phrase “women’s march imitators”? Imitators? How about “ensuing events inspired by the women’s marches in DC, New York, and elsewhere around the country”.
Mr. Douthat’s own prejudices are revealed in his choice of wording, several times in this piece. It makes it difficult to accept his interpretation of the original article’s intent, and his own intent in his reading of it.
19
While I generally agree that it is white and black women who are going to bring Trump down electorally or litigiously, I do not agree that "by jettisoning much of the populist economic agenda he campaigned on, Trump’s actual presidency has made class less important and gender more essential to understanding how Americans divide."
That is a clear non sequitur. His "jettisoning" populism was not just negative (he simply doesn't care about people), but an aggressively positive promotion of the small-percentage rich (whom he cares about because he cares only about himself). In fact, the key to anything he cares about is the degree to which it resembles himself. Thus his policies reflect his narcissism—they are only about rich, racist, white, men. The Republican leadership in Congress reflects and shares these values, though with less testosterone or backbone.
Democrats need to illuminate the fact that all voters who are not rich, racist, white men are not being favored by the Trump-Republican administration, and should throw them out.
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In the 2016 election 54% of white women voted Donald while 98% of black women voted Hillary.
The white populist political agenda subordinates socioeconomic and educational class interests and values to color aka race caste interests and values. Poor and middle class whites vote against their class and in favor of their caste.
1
This is an epochal stage in US history----the culmination of festering ugly trends our political system hasn’t countered. A dictator mentality got power in a constitutional democracy even as our economic equality ranks lower than many countries in the Gini Index. The economic security of the majority has been allowed to wither, duped by warnings of big govt. But we are the govt.
Other countries where rw parties gained some votes, still have a better balance of factions and interests. No EU rw party aims to destroy their health care for all. The US is a warning to the world, as a party aiming to destroy our safety net, now dominates our 3 branches and most states.
It’s a warning how national ideals can be shredded with calculated propaganda from a party that sponsors its own rw media, allowed to grow into a dominant monopoly across the land.
By equating corporate privilege with American ideals of Freedom and Liberty, our constitutional democracy is able to transfer national wealth and power to the 1 percent elite corporate wealthy.
Now the party opposite, who should be protecting the citizen majority from this exploitation, must compete for huge campaign donations from the same sources of wealth. How does that limit their duty to represent the citizen majority?
The Dems will seem to be our saviors, while they must listen to their biggest corporate donors, while marketing to the mass of voters.
1
All of this didn't used to be OK.
1
I read the data a bit differently. The stand out results from the surveys are how high the approval ratings for Trump remain among Republican women. Not only is the approval rating differential between Republican women and Democratic women much greater than that between Republican men and Democratic women, the gap has widened materially as support among Republican women has hardly moved. The conflict may in fact not be one between the sexes, but one within the sexes as Trump forces women to confront their priorities in a society which is challenging traditional gender positions. The Democratic women express that his 'throw back' behaviour overcomes their approval of his policy positions while the Republican women seem to feel very differently.
3
You don’t get to claim that White women are the centre of the anti trump movement when a majority of them voted for him in the first place. You don’t get applause for solving a problem that you helped create.
7
That was a majority of the white women who voted, not a majority of white women - and that's quite a difference, given how many Americans just didn't vote.
Trump, the graduate from Reality TV University, understands the importance of divide, divide, reward, divide and conquer. A single division will eventually heal, but creating a shattered opposition, rewarding some with while punishing others keeps Trump's opponents at each others' throats, not his. Trump and his people are running the country for their own amusement and benefit, playing the populace for suckers. In the end, none of us will get the rose in he final episode.
3
I suggest you look at more than one poll. I've seen others that show a decrease amongst blacks and hispanics. But I generally agree with your point that sex is probably the dominant galvanizing issue, though that is not just about Trump.
1
The mindset of this column is remarkably like Donald Trump's. The world is a series of zero-sum conflicts--if someone wins, someone else must be losing.
Trump's life is a constant series of battles he must win to prove himself superior to every adversary, no matter how inconsequential. It's a reflection of his extreme narcissism and ego insecurity (as Michael Wolff's book "Fire and Fury" documents brilliantly).
At least Trump really believes in this twisted view of human existence. For conservative pundits like Douthat, it's an insincere, cynical ploy, an old trick: Set the black people and the women against each other. Divide and conquer.
It won't work.
Those of us engaged in the fight against Trumpism and Republicanism aren't so easily fooled. We clearly see that the struggle isn't about minority rights versus women's rights. It's about human rights. We're in this together.
Douthat also presents as a given that "our problems with sex and gender and male-female relations are worsening." But what social conservatives see as a problem, many more of us see as progress. Most Americans don't want to regress to Douthat's ideal society--one in which women are second-class citizens punished for their sexuality with forced childbirth and limited to lives of domestic service.
Douthat may be more clever than Trump in the way he presents his agenda, but that makes him even more dishonest than the Liar-in-Chief.
296
Douthat thinks he is more clever than Pope Francis and Barack Obama. Being more clever than Donald Trump misses his puppet ventriloquist master Vladimir Putin.
2
hear, hear
1
Carson, as you said: We clearly see that the struggle isn't about minority rights versus women's rights. It's about human rights. We're in this together.
The women I know are not only tired of being demeaned, we are tired of the whole cabal of men who are destroying this country, its ideals, its people (all of them) by engaging in juvenile power struggles designed to maintain their power rather than to govern. We are sick of seeing the poor and unwell treated as pariahs. We are tired of our schools being defunded in the interest of competition and small government, when we know the key is the greed of those governing us, and their desire to keep those low on the totem pole way down at the bottom. We are disillusioned by the lack of any sort of caring for the communities we live in at the local, state and federal level and the horrible waste of human potential. We're all in this together, yet those elected to govern us fail us day in and day out by accomplishing nothing for the common good. Wake up guys and gals! Get out there, vote for strong, caring, competent people and if they also fail to govern us, boot them out of office too.
5
Sure, changes in anti-Trump/Ttump splits in the electorate are bigger for sex than for race. Sexual splits Starr out relatively small, like 55/45 and seldom shaper than 60/40. Initial
Racial ones tend to much larger -Skewed- for Black /White differences, like 20/80 (And beyond the outer limits of contrast for Hispanics/Whites.) Skewed anti-Trump differences --one involving Blacks-- are very unlikely to chance in an Anti Trump direction: they have so little room to change. Sex differencee are free of "floor" and "ceiling" effects, free to move around.
are our problems with sex and gender getting worse; or are women just getting more insistent in talking about them? Women are talking about them so as to bring up still extent unfairness.
I mean, I'm sure Weinstein didn't feel he had much of a problem with sex and gender until this paper made us all aware of how he would bully women into having sex with him.
Maybe women have had a huge problem with sex and gender, and we men didn't realize it until women decided to make it our problem?
9
I don't think male/ female relations are worsening. In fact, I see them improving for many men and women. What I see, is a President who is a throwback to the blatant misogyny and male privilege that I, and many women, grew up with. Our resistance, including the "me too" movement, is an attempt to root out the types of behaviour that has been condoned, even practiced, by our President. Many of us feel that America can't be made great when a man like Trump is representing our country.
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Donald John Trump is a throwback".. to the blatant misogyny and male privilege.." of William Jefferson Clinton.
While "Our resistance.." and "Many of us..." ignores the role of black women like Tarana Burke who created #MeToo movement 10 years ago.
1
great and trump in the same sentence, i'm all astonishment
Ross is a quiet generous. He's pointed out the problem of our times: gender relationships, and the growing female oppression under the falsehood of feminism. The Government cannot solve this one out for you: the society must. My school's (male) principal's policy is to not stay alone in a room with ANY female (from first-grader to his own wife) EVER.
1
If you are an average person, it is much easier to move through life as a white woman in American than a black man. I have never been pulled over by police unless I was guilty of speeding. I’m never accused of stealing and can return things to stores without receipts. However, at the highest levels of society, men – even black men, are more accepted as leaders. It is no surprise to me that a black man was elected President before a woman of any race.
Women are tired of having their issues ignored. Issued like healthcare and education which should not even be considered women’s issues. Adding insult to injury, add Donald Trump. A man whose view of women take us back to the Mad Men era.
30
Lori, you nailed it. as a white woman, I KNOW that I have a free pass in many areas; but NOT in any area in which I must compete with a white male. Then I must be Ginger Rodgers, doing everything Fred does, but backwards, in high heels.
Ross, may I refer you to the Moning Consult poll shown in the NY Times article below:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/11/us/politics/trump-approva...
This poll indicates that Trump has lost ground even among different races. I don't see how you can claim that sex trumps race.
" And I’m not denying the reality of that racism, which has been apparent since Trump ....."
No, just deflecting away from the Trump imposed permanent state of American chaos.
10
This analysis misses the bigger picture. It's not that each of these survey questions and the calculation of each sub-groups response isn't accurate.
But what's missing is the now clear evidence that American is now run by a right wing white supremacist. The GOP, our governing power, is now led by this right wing white supremacist and the best that people like Paul Ryan can do is say that Trump's remarks "aren't helpful."
White supremacy has always embodied patriarchy as well. Women have a place in those movements and it's in the home, taking care of children and being sexually available for the man.
Like the right wing governments of Europe in the 1930's Trump promises to uplift the working class, but turns the entire government over to the corporate elites, the bankers and Wall Street.
The media report events as if we were looking at multiple choice questions. There are only four choices and only one right answer. Ideology doesn't work that way and Trump is driven by his white supremacist world view. As each issue comes up, that lens drives his response.
By focusing on one racist remark, or one report of sexual assault or one bombastic comment you are missing the overall agenda. And there is an overall agenda.
The American people rely on the press to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Give the 'facts' meaning. So far we've got a lot of pieces but are still confused over what this puzzle really looks like.
7
I disagree that the gap between sexes is widening as implied by Douthat's column. I believe that the current dialogue about sexual harassment and assault will bring lasting change to the way men approach women, especially in the workplace but also socially as well. Women, mostly white, who voted for Trump should be ashamed of themselves for not supporting a qualified women candidate and failed to reject the misogynistic comments made by Trump during the campaign. The fact that "Trump’s coalition depends on working-class whites, evangelicals and older white men" tells an important story of where Republicans have been heading for decades: To the bottom of our society where the unenlightened, ignorant, racist and bigoted reside. They have sown the seeds of their own destruction and are now reaping the harvest.
133
Yep. All those twice-Obama female voters (who, I guess were doing the right thing then) should now be ashamed of themselves because they didn't vote for the woman?
Perhaps they rejected the "qualified" woman because she thought they were deplorable.
This Clinton supporter, would never command someone to feel "ashamed" for their choice.
1
I continue to hear that statistic about white women and Donald Trump. It's difficult for me to swallow. I don't know a single white woman or woman of color for that matter who voted for Donald Trump. Even the Republican women I know shunned him in favor of HRC.
I'd like to see a make up of that demographic.
The only thing I can imagine is religion stepped in and educated white women did not vote.
I don't know but I continue to believe there was something stinking rotten in the results of the last election. It's likely too late to discover a "bug" in the vote counting software but we need to keep a sharp eye or we will find ourselves with another 4 years of this buffoon the jesters and sycophants that make up his malodorous court.
2
About 54% of white women voted Trump while 98% of black women voted Trump. Being Mrs. William Jefferson Clinton in a change election while an ancient three score and eight years old and a terrible insincere greedy politician is what happened to Hillary.
2
Sex sells , anything pertaining to sexual mores , deviancy, suppression, or scandal will garner widespread media coverage and the lion's share of the general public's attention span. This doesn't mean the various changes evolving on how we negotiate relations between the sexes is the most significant of civic/social realities , just the loudest.
Survey Monkey is notoriously unreliable, and Brownstein's conclusion that "Trump is deepening almost every social and political division that existed before him" is completely divorced from the data he is surveying. Still, I have to agree, from what I am seeing, that Brownstein, the Survey Monkey study and Douthat are basically right in this respect -- gender issues are more salient than race today, and Trump is out of touch there. But that has more to do with long-run trajectories than with the particular gender boorishness of the Hugest Bad Boy (even though Weinstein seems far more boorish than the president). Did you see Shelby Steele's op-ed on point about the declining significance of race politics? https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-protest-has-lost-its-power-1515800438 But the fire is still burning bright on gender outrage. To me, Trump seems more like a hapless lightning rod on that front, clueless and kicked around just because he is a gender holdover, no metrosexual though he hails from NYC. My wife, my daughters and my young women law students seem generally to be annoyed if not occasionally angry about the old gender order. Still, when you have the protestors wearing sexy black at the Golden Globes, I'm not sure the movement has the same clarity as the civil rights movement. What women seem to want is be respected. As women, in all their glory. Nothing wrong with that, but you don't have to abandon appreciation for gender distinctions to do it.
1
Dear Ross, You wrote "His lost support has been heavily concentrated among the female of the species...' would you ever write the sentence 'Her lost support has been heavily concentrated among the male of the species...'? I doubt it.
Also, you said that 'elite support for ever-increasing immigration..' Really? Just where did you come up with this? Most of the 'elite' in my opinion have been ready and willing to put together comprehensive immigration legislation and have support strengthening the borders (which they did over the 8 Obama years). I suggest you are just repeating the RW mantra that has been used for decades.
7
The Atlantic piece appears to compare Trump's Survey Monkey approval rating with 2016 exit polls. Those aren't the same thing at all. All else equal people are simply more inclined to "approve" of a commander in chief. Doesn't mean they'll vote for him. Anyone really think 23% of AA men plan on voting for Trump in 2020? Come on.
3
The initial women's march was largely fueled by the defeat of Hilary Clinton by an admitted sexual predator. The reactions by Trump and other Republicans did nothing to tamp down the ire. Trump kept fueling it with his tweets and inane comments by other Republican leaders, including McConnell's attach on Elizabeth Warren during the Sessions hearing spread and fed the frustration and anger.
There already existed an underlying level of frustration and anger among women who have worked for centuries to level the playing field. Frustration that voting rights and civil rights legislation did not level that field. Trump's election sparked a conflagration.
Minority and immigration issues has not receded, they have just been joined by another fire building a ring around white male supremacy. Are these equality issues, combined with the reality of climate change, economic and infrastructure calamities sufficient to bring down while men's longings for a utopia that never existed?
None of these issues are new. What is new is the Republican Party's absolute collapse of concern for anything other than appeasing Trump's latest tantrum, no matter the cost to personal or party reputation.
13
Stop trying to make these competitive issues.
3
Excellent! Douthat produces what seems to me to be the most insightful essay about the evolution of the Trump phenomenon I have yet read.
In this relative infancy of social and political tribalism, while we have always respected the adage that blood is thcker than water, still, when individuals become alienated, at least in their own psychologies, from the larger community, there is a tendency to distort oner's perceptions of friend and foe.
While I would observe and point out that ethnic groups and affiliations can be as strong as racial bonds, ramifications of solidarities break down when political stressors and incentives enter into the equations. Still, there are few absolutes. Information that relies on mass statistics can be misleading while information that comes from oral histories of individuals is reliability that you can bet on.
Is Women's Solidarity uniform? hardly is questioned. Nonetheless, among activists in gender or racially focused activist movements those who have made the commitment, paid the dues, have shown they will not turn on a comrade are the strengths of any group's success in increasing and holding influence which improves the lot of all, especially those who have not yet joined in the struggle.
"…our capacity to successfully and happily pair off" is attacked from all sides, least of all by our sexual or gender differences. Even with the great divides in our society and with the dysfunctional leaderships we see in the party in power, one to one relationships still are stronger than any tribal superficial memberships can persuade.
1
The famous actress from France, and some of her supporters, wrote of some caution, the Me Too movement should exercise. One issue she specifically made mention of was, she tends to believe American women simply don't like men. To that end, it seems obvious ,with the me Too effort, females simply want to just co exist with males when necessary, other than required association, seems obvious females would rather be left to their own world. Only enter when when invited in. Could even lead to scheduled appointment , for interaction.
1
Here is the bottom line here imo.
Sexual harassment has been against the law at work since app. 1980. Countless women have sued and won. As far as I can see no pol., leader or anybody else in power is coming out publicly for sexual harassment. The issue as I see it is co dependency and enabling by all sorts of people, men and yes women, Hillary, M. Streep, big named female movie stars, Anita Hill, etc. etc.
Racial discrimination is technically against the law too but the big difference is that major republican leaders, headed by the president are saying in thought, word and deed that it is ok.
2
The polls decisively show Trump is losing ground. But remember, the polls also showed he would lose(decisively) to Hillary Clinton.
1
The most important issue is: ... This sort of handicapping is tiresome. Maybe it depends on one's perch. Or a new (not really) shiny bauble for news media.
Both issues--and others--are important. I do not think gender relations will replace race as the original sin of the nation. We should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
1
Its 'divide and conquer' Ross.
He's not alone. Even groups advocating for their share of rights and respect march like lemmings into the same dark hole.
What women want is respect, to be treated, yes, more like men supposedly treat one another. Its an unfortunate cultural reference that, even at this late date, packs an emotional wallop. But seeking their place at the American table, women risk falling into a trap that bedeviled movements for race, ethnic, economic equity: they speak as if they alone are suffering, as if their fate is unique.
It isn't, and by focusing on themselves they de facto deny there are white men, good men suffering the same killing challenges, the same lack of opportunity and success, the same disrespect They create enemies and charges of special pleading where there is none.
Interest groups want the same thing: to shake up and open up the culture and the power structure; to be full partners in America, to assert their parity without gender/sex/race/economics serving as qualifiers begging mistreatment or dismissal.
The problem in this column is Ross. The problem in our society is we have yet to realize the loss of perspective, creativity, national power we suffer when we define people by characteristics, and cripple our nation by ignoring those with the most urgent need to see clearly and act forcefully.
It's the Democrats' problem. Catering to interest groups by name instead of by issue, they divide their own powerful base.
74
Only a man would call women "an interest group". Nuts!
1
reply to oogada from Boogada (aka anon.)
"It's the Democrats' problem."
Good golly, will to GOP ever assume responsibility for anything?
2
As always, Ross, you're delusional. To wit: "But there is strong evidence that our problems with sex and gender and male-female relations are worsening —" No, no, NO! There's strong evidence that people are TALKING about our gender relation problems. That is correlation, not causation.
The problems have existed throughout recorded human history. I would argue that our gender relation problems have been improving at least since the mid-1800's. Meanwhile, some men are newly becoming aware of how badly some other men still abuse and harass women. That's a great trend; the first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one.
So, Ross, now that you admit we have a problem, consider the possibility that the problems are not new and not worsening. In fact, they're obviously poised to get better, though not without pushback, I'm sure.
5
"tweet noting an all-time-low in the black unemployment rate was not wrong: These are the best economic times for African-Americans in a decade."
While I can understand trump taking credit for this { because he takes credit for everything except bad stuff} the idea of any sentient person thinking this has occurred just because of him I find incredible.
4
I couldn't get past the fact that all this is based on data from Survey Monkey, which conducts internet-based polls; so, presumably, it's a survey of people who have ready access to the Internet and like to fill out polls. I wonder how that lines up against the electorate at large...?
2
Remember all those polls that said "Hillary has a 95% chance of winning"? or that "Hillary was going to win a landslide victory....and destroy Trump, who would then have a total mental collapse"?
Those polls?
Polls are unreliable. They are biased. They tell you what you want to hear. They have no basis in fact.
1
Mr. Douthat writes, "But there is strong evidence that our problems with sex and gender and male-female relations are worsening….” He supports his contention with the rise of the #MeToo movement as well shifts in public opinion polls showing more women disapproving of Donald Trump.
Unfortunately, he focuses on changes as more significant than the underlying context. I guess that’s the pundit's job, but it does not tell the full story. The emerging notion that sexual harassment is a growing problem belies the fact that what we see is only the grudging, growing male awareness. The pattern of sexual harassment and assault by men has been highlighted because of the celebrity of a few predators and their expensive falls from grace. The practice is very old and clearly has been swept from public view for decades.
(As an aside, I can appreciate the concerns of men who now worry that even consensual relations will end by being adversarial. In a way, boys, welcome to the women’s club. If you don’t feel very safe, you have the opportunity to understand how women have been feeling.)
Mr. Douthat seems to wake up to see the shifts in women’s support as a surprising development. The reality is that it is the emergence of an anger that has always been boiling below the surface. Just because women have now shattered that barrier does not mean that we are seeing something new. We are really just seeing it more fully. Its ugliness was there all along.
5
Black male support for Trump declined from 20% in February to 15% now. It hasn’t increased. Like everyone else, Trump is increasingly reviled by Black men (not that he was broadly popular to begin with). It’s misleading to pretend to the contrary.
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Douthat’s article represents a tactful analysis from an intelligent white male who does not see himself as part of the usual Trump followers. It’s a position that a lot of men take in face of the massive allegations of sexism—“I can be objective be-cause I’m not one of them.”
The tactical analysis breaks down when you view racism and sexism as different sides of the same coin—then there is no refuge for males. Also, equally, there is no refuge for women who claim to never have witnessed sexual harassment but accept the fact that they make less money than their male counterparts in ever job classification—except prostitution (female prostitutes make considerable more than male prostitutes—as much as $130K for one outing).
It may be comfortable to feel that racism—and the violence that it portends—has been replaced by women whose only threat is at the polls. Somehow, Americans can’t create the image of women terrorists—it’s males who’ve been caught blowing up abortion clinics.
When you listen to the rhetoric, look at the financial inequities, assess the sociological damage and who gains, racism and sexism have the identical results.
Don’t get comfortable thinking that the fight against an unequal society is now in the gentle hands of women who will remain “gentle” and accept only one course of action.
As some feminists have written, much of their tactics came from the civil rights movement.
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It is not racism, it is a question of values. If one has lower class values, (I.e.Tribal thinking or clannishness, contentment with a low material standard of living, valorisation of strength and petty violence, anti-intellectualism, tolerance of criminality and values a life of easy leisure and being served by servants (a value often exhibited by the upper classes), as opposed to hard work.) then the middle and working classes look down on you. You can become a successful entertainer or sports figure with these values, but little else. If the leaders don't push a program of middle class values (Hard work, ambition, honesty, modesty, thrift, delayed pregnancy, education and self discipline) these leaders will be viewed negatively by the working and middle classes. The values being promoted by African American leaders are victimization and, fortunately, education. "Without a vision the people perish." The leaders need to promote a vision of Middle Class values.
The pure patriarchy has run its course to a cruel destination and is getting worse.
Just as a family is better with a father and a mother, our government needs many, many more women to hold high offices. We need your wisdom, compassion and superior application of fairness, most desperately now, lest the Trumpian nightmare crescendo to appalling manifestations that will destroy America’s virtues.
Come on ladies! You have what the nation desperately needs and the majority to assume power. Please do so with God’s speed. The stakes could not be higher.
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The anger of women towards Trump and men in general is the visible part of the American iceberg. Though it may have an effect on electoral outcomes, it is temporary. The vast part below is the color line. W.E.B. DuBois claimed that in 1901. It remains true today
There's no place for comments - yet - on the article about Trump's "cognitive test."
But the mistakes in the article are so important, and the issue is so crucial, it's worth providing accurate information about it:
1. Physicians, unless they have received specialized training, have no more qualifications than Gemli or Ross to administer and analyze screening tests for dementia. The White House doctor does not have the qualifications either for assessing the cognitive test he gave or for assessing Trump's cognitive abilities based on "conversations" he has had.
a. The most appropriate professional to administer tests for neurocognitive deficits is a neurologist or neuropsychologist.
2. I have administered the MOCA (Montreal Cognitive Assessment Test) to disability applicants with Full Scale IQs in the low 70s, and some even in the mid to high 60s (the 2nd percentile of the population, within the category of mild intellectual disability) who scored 30 out of 30, the same score as Trump obtained.
3. It seems to me that journalistic responsibility entails informing one's reader that the test given Trump provides no indication of the extent to which he may be suffering from neurocognitive deficits. Further more, by quoting the doctor as saying he has no cognitive OR mental deficits, many readers are likely to assume this means this single screening test established Trump as having no psychological problems (i.e. such as some kind of personality disorder)
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Don: it is the same test given to my elderly family members, and when they had genuine problems -- early stage dementia -- they flunked the test.
It is not a measure of INTELLIGENCE, but cognitive ability -- to know who you are, what day it is, what year, who your family members are -- the names of basic things -- what time it is, how to read a clock face.
The test is given all the time by physicians of all kinds, social workers, even nurses.
What is sad (and biased) here is how desperately you wish to "prove" that Trump "must be crazy, or have dementia".
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Sadly, this is not the only case where the "homeschooling" exemption that allows children to avoid attending public school has been used to hide child abuse and torture.
"...to make more white women feel the sense of marginalization and disempowerment that minorities already feel..." Middle-aged white woman here- woman have felt marginalized and disempowered for a long time- Abigail Adams- "Remember the ladies", woman suffrage movement, bra burning... been going on longer than I can think of examples for this early in the morning... Once again, we're making noise and I'm hopeful that it will be sustained.
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Sex, gender, male/female relationships in the U.S. today?
There seems so much confusion as to rights concerning sex/gender and proper behavior between the sexes and courtship between every possible orientation (I don't even know how to use language to describe all the emerging subtleties of sex and gender) that probably the whole thing cannot be sorted out without vast increase of surveillance in society and eventual development of at least computer applications which examine and synthesize human behavior to point that two people meeting will be able to record their interaction and the application will examine all verbal and nonverbal cues between them and spit out a result and/or developing guideline for the interaction. Imagine each person with his or her own genius relationship counselor right there offering step by step advice during interactions.
Ideally of course we can imagine people with brain/computer interfaces and say, if you were sitting at a table with your date, the computer would read your date with incredible subtlety, feeding you cues, perhaps even allowing telepathic communication with your date, to point that like expert musicians the two of you either pick up and click or know whether to break it off. In short, all this confusion today between sexes, etc. must be making people like Elon Musk salivate. What an incredible and waiting market! People really do want to read each other's minds and not waste time in finding partners throughout life!
Your own paper says that the Survey Monkey poll shows decline in Black support, not Trump “holding his own.” The bigger point is that there was already (pre-Trump) a much bigger racial divide between republicans and democrats than gender divide. So there is much less for Trump to lose in terms of black support. The GOP has become the white party. That should very much concern principaled conservatives like Mr. Douthat.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/us/politics/factcheck-trump-black-ame...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
The problem is exacerbated by Trump but didn't start there. Feminism, or our current version of it, simply hasn't worked out for many women and the chickens are (so to speak) coming home to roost. This will be a major issue for some time to come.
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It is a fact passing strange for me that any woman in her right mind could have voted for Trump. I grew up believing that women were better-looking, smarter and stronger than men. No more.
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Maybe, Mr. Stanton, we are not all stereotypes, created in some lefty liberal factory of stereotypes and "political correctness".
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"Something is badly out of joint with male-female relations, our ability to woo and be wooed, our capacity to successfully and happily pair off."
First this statement assumes that past gender relations were always positive and people "happily paired off". Really? Women are marching today because many women no longer view past power differentials as acceptable. We need this change!
Second this statement assumes that we need to "pair off" to be happy. Singlism (prejudice against single people) raises its ugly (and often invisible) head once again.
Third this statement assumes that the only pairing off that is worthwhile is male-female.
Let's please move into the 21st century!
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Singlism? You gotta be kidding me! Another issue to be aggrieved about! Just what we need.
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No matter where you stand politically or with respect to gender issues, you cannot deny Douthat’s comment on the matter. Gender relations *are* strained. You dont have to necessarily be in a relationship. Even hookups are being threatened. Actually I should say hookups, especially, are threatened. Nothing “singlist” about it. Most men and women are increasingly feeling quite threatened about being with the opposite gender alone. Mike Pence has had his revenge. Bravo, zero-sum-feminism!!
There is no hope for feminism and metoo unless it resists its worst impulses like the Ansari matter and the Franken matter.
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Ross Douthat simply reads as a Roman Catholic reactionary. The opposite of our Jesuit trained governor in California, Jerry Brown. Douthat came out the wrong hole, so to speak. As a gay man who is biologically homosexual and happy with it, I have no place it Douthat's cosmology. It's a pretty small place.
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Though I agree with much of what the opinion piece says I am struck by the repeated comment that the relationship between men and women is worsening. In fact, it is getting better. At least for those men who have been and are supportive of the women they love, respect and appreciate. Women are demanding their rights and their equality and respect and many men I know are happy to give it to them. Women are demanding safety from certain types of men, especially those we would label as predators. I am pleased this is happening and don't feel threatened by it and know how important it is to my wife, my daughter and the other women in my life. But I don't feel threatened by it and neither should any other man who sees woman as another human being who deserves what they are asking for and should get it. Maybe they'll be slower to marry, but who said marriage is a necessary institution or the only way to partner with someone, and maybe they'll be slower to decide to have children, family is important to some and not to others. But more likely the "institution" of marriage will continue to do just fine, there will be enough children to run the world when we're gone and maybe an equal number of those world running people will be women, which is no doubt a good thing. And if the issue of race goes in the same direction it will be a good thing, even if we first have to catch up a little on the issue of women and men, which will help people of all races.
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Some of the push to have fewer, or no children, is growing overpopulation. No one talks about it anymore, but in our lifetime (I'm 68), the world will have to support 9 billion people. Would America have all these problems, or at least as notorious, if our population was around 200 million versus today's 370+ million?
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51%. When we get women to be 51% of our elected representatives - and in our executive branch - then the current debates will abate. There doesn’t seem to be fear of that yet, but maybe because the suppression is so successful. Minority representation is an easier target.
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Healthcare, healthcare, healthcare!! Healthcare for their children, healthcare for their husbands, healthcare for their parents and healthcare for themselves. Obamacare, the ACA, Medicaid expansion, access to women's services, family and pregnancy leave, sick days, caring for children with special needs, caring for elderly parents, access to health insurance if you are freelance or lose your job. Trump and the Republicans have put on quite a show for us this year in their pursuit of taking away healthcare. It is the mothers, grandmothers, sisters and daughters that mostly watch over the health or our families. Women may disagree on many issues from taxes to abortion, but they will mostly agree with access to affordable and decent healthcare and health services. And, now they are watching and participating in politics because the health of their families depend on it.
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Ross, your premise reminds me of counting angels on the head of a pin. Yes, I know you argue that that gender relations have soured mightily under Donald Trump, whereas race and class relations might have improved somewhat.
But I'd respond that all that is really a question of degree. Particularly in a week where race, racial epithets, and who belongs in America have gripped the nation.
Data are interesting, but I think many anti-Trumpers (myself included) are far more concerned with the actual damage he's causing it's hard to pick the number #1 target.
Anyone disgusted by this administration has their pick of complaints. Anyone appalled at the fights playing out in the press are likely gratified that their side is fighting a better fight than another denigrated sector of the population.
But, I guess my main point is: I care less how many constituencies Trump is hurting to ask how many is he helping?
Approval levels aside--Trump knows instinctively all he has to do is swear to get his white, largely male base back--the one sector of the population that's making out like bandits are the very ones who don't need help in the first place: the mega-rich, corporations, lobbyists, and hard-line politicians who are happy embracing the authoritarianism Trump shows us every day.
Donald Trump is whipping up anger on so many levels while picking our pockets, attacking democratic norms (press freedoms, shared truth), and cementing economic inequality.
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Pres. Trump, as this country's legit President, deserves if not your respect than at least loyalty. Anything less is called treason. Faulting 49.7% of voters who chose him for falling to Russian propaganda is simplistic at best and condescending / offensive at worst. Trump is rebuilding this country's economy. The run-amok feminists (Ross is right here) are destroying this country's soul.
We are witnessing the creation of an oligarchy.
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@Yulia: Trump is benefiting from the economic recovery begun during his predecessor’s administration. And blind “loyalty” to any president is antithetical to the principles of democracy.
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When he asserts that Trump’s has “held his own” or that his support has grown among African Americans, it appears as if Ross Douthat is relying on Fox and Friends’ flawed analysis of the Survey Monkey poll (as Trump himself did). Douthat should look at page one of his newspaper. This is what he’d find—a debunking by his colleagues of that analysis:
“Survey Monkey’s results, provided to The New York Times, show that Mr. Trump’s approval ratings among black Americans actually declined from 20 percent in February 2017, his first full month in office, to 15 percent in December. (This is consistent with polling from the Pew Research Center and Reuters.)“
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Douthat is a conservative, of course he doesn't read the NYT, he just writes his opinion after watching Fox and friends.
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However...53% of white women voted for Trump. That means that their investment in their men, their investment in white supremacy, trumps any gender loyalty one might assume.
Too, civil rights is not an either/or situation. We can work towards gender equity at the same time that we decry overly aggressive policing of citizens of all colors, and work towards MLK's dream of a nation based on the content of one's character. Women and POC and women who *are* people of color ALL deserve as fair a shake as the one given to our white brothers.
The President's words and attitudes do not help.
We *know* exactly who he is, especially we New Yorkers.
We are *finally* in a position where women can tell our own stories, including stories of abuse & assault. The same goes for minority communities - videotaping the daily aggressions & harassments they face.
I don't know if this country has the maturity or the honesty to do Truth and Reconciliation like South Africa did, but it would be a healing crisis for this country, and a chance for us to move together as a nation.
White men do not deserve to be the recipient of centuries of pent-up rage and frustration, just because they are white men. But they do need to learn to listen to other human beings who are not, and have had different experiences of what it is to be an American.
True growth is uncomfortable, and often painful. But when you go through it, and get to the other side.. that is where we build the real American promise.
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Have you ever been t RSA? I have. Before bringing it up as an example for the US, I suggest you travel there. I GUARANTEE you will change your tune afterwards. This country should stay as far away as it can from the RSA T&R practices for fear (no, guarantee) of a civil war.
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I recently had a very racist white woman get up in my face when I said something about Trump's recent racist comments. Something to the tune of "this country is already black enough". So while it is not strictly and either/or situation, it is also not strictly a "we're all in this together" situation. Some people clearly view this in terms of a zero-sum game.
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When New York feminists with incomes over 120K lecture heartland sisters with incomes less than 30K it really is the most appalling class condescension.
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My answer to Ross’s suppositional question would be that “America is in a transitional state from one set of dominant belief systems to others, with the champions of both forms of traditional thinking being displaced gibbering maniacally and desperately in defense of what they are losing.”
Yeah, it’s a mouthful, I know. But I’m stickin’ to it.
And thanks to Ross for use of the word “outhouses” instead of the word alleged to have been used by Trump in characterizing less-than-successful cultures that some charge has something to do with his convictions on race and ethnicity, and not merely with a cruel and politically incorrect but historically accurate eye.
But I guess the point is that it’s not solely about race OR sex: Trump’s ascension heralds a Ragnarök of traditional but opposed perceptions affecting ALL dimensions of culture, perhaps one more basic than what made the 1960s so disturbing to traditionalists. This is in part because it’s challenging perceptions on ALL sides.
Yet Ross veers off into an analysis of Trump’s waning support, forgetting that most presidents are less popular after one year in office than they were when elected. Those who are re-elected simply recapture support in the year of a new election, usually based on a perception of performance. Frankly, I think this analysis is a waste of time until January of 2020.
What’s MOST disturbing to many is that we have no idea what new forms eventually will emerge from the carnage of Ragnarök.
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The problem with assuming that sex (or gender) is displacing race and all other cultural concerns as the primary fracture point of this evolution and collision is that if it is, it likely will fail. As the Women’s March illuminated, women have MANY concerns, and if you can’t marshal numbers behind a coherent message, you have little chance of selling the message. Thus disappeared Occupy Wall Street. Yet there’s no indication that the entirety of the perceptual challenges that Trump’s presidency compels is disappearing or becoming less germinative of new perceptual frameworks.
Ross gives the appearance that he’s as uneasy as many in that he seeks to analyze one aspect of a fundamental change that will affect how we think of ourselves and interact with others – in order to impose some manageable structure on the intellectual confusion. It’s about “sex”, instead of being about “sex”, and race and ethnicity, and our place in the world, and individualism vs. collectivism, and indulgence vs. constraint, and how people at different levels of power properly interact, and avoidance of threat (guns), and many other things. It’s even about Big Macs as opposed to real food.
Embrace the chaos, Ross. Only in passing through it ALL can we emerge from the formative carnage.
But the truth is that it’s about everything; and about time. I can only react to this as I reacted as the results of the last election came in during the wee hours of 9 November 2016: Get set, this is gonna be a ride.
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In the midst of the endless stream of word salad, something intelligible - it's true, and the movement is toward an integral consciousness, with many, RL for example, clueless about the direction and seeming to devote endless energy to opposing it, even while believing he's helping to move it forward!
On another note, I used to administered the MOCA to disability applicants. Many with Full Scale IQs in the low 70s and even high to mid 60s (the first and second percentile of the population in terms of intelligence, and within the classification of intellectually disabled) could score 30 out of 30.
So much for Trump's proof of his cognitive capacity.
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As I write there are but four comments, half of them by our resident Trump apologist who, thanks to his status as a verified Commenter, can ramble on indefinitely it seems, unhindered by the 1500 character limit on Comments, merely by nesting one submission after another. Oh well...
He begins oddly, with a quote, or so it appears at first. However the passage is not to be found in the text of the article, nor is its origin cited. A second reading leads one to the conclusion that Richard is using quotation marks to emphasize his personal "answer to Ross's suppositional question," which, since it follows the word "that" makes the " " a superfluous affectation. Replace "that" with a colon (:) and the marks would be appropriate. But Richard is Richard, so on he then rambles, "gibbering maniacally and desperately in defense of'" his (but not our, or at least my) president.
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There is no doubt that male-female relations are worsening and that could be because, in the name of equality, we are upsetting the roles that men and women traditionally served since history began. Perhaps we are trying to change nature. Men were, even when I was a kid, the breadwinner and women were the homemakers. My mother nor any of my aunts ever worked outside the home. If a woman did work, she was a nurse or teacher. The Declaration of Independence states that " All men are created equal ". It is possible that they meant just " men " as women were not allowed to vote. No one wants to go back to the days when women were not treated equally but there will continue to be relationship problems.
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My mother went to work in 1952, and in two years she was a supervisor (forelady) responsible for 30 assembly-line workers. She was a feminist before they ever coined the work, and she started making more money than my father, who didn't like it but took it in stride. He was a union representative where he worked, she was anti-union management. There were lively conversations around the dinner table. My father helped out with the cooking, cleaning, and dish washing. He got to appreciate the extra income. They were happily married for 66 years. If there are relationship problems because of a woman going to work, the problem is the inferiority complex and insecurities of the man in the relationship.
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My mom was breadwinner too. Started as operator in late 40s and made her way to management in 70s with Ma Bell. And women have always worked. They were just invisible. Teachers, secretaries and store clerks were fields women were strong in.
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Oh goodness! First off, how very easy for YOU to say, sir, when you are the one who’s life will not be limited to some amalgamation of homemaker, mother, teacher or nurse. You also blithely ignore the fact that wages have not kept up and many households need at least two incomes and that these women are essential to their familiy’s success. Also, your statement assumes that these unions will be healthy and happy for both parties. With no skills or job experience to fall back on, women will be trapped in dangerous or unfulfilling relationships. You also cast aside a woman’s personal desire and dreams to achieve a goal—any goal—she may want to pursue. Finally, you arrogantly assume that women would not be an essential element to finding solutions or innovating or creating, and instead imply that men and men alone can be counted on to find the best solution. Puh-leeze!
You and I do agree that part of the blame for the breaking down of our social fabric can be attributed to the need for many parents to both work full-time or more and therefore out of necessity shirk the household as a focus. I can’t blame them for their choices. I do not agree that women leaving the workforce is a humane or practical thing to do. Blame low wages and poverty, not ambitious women!
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How multifaceted is the Don
His decline in many ways won,
Whether tweeting or speaking
Havoc he is wreaking
An unimpressive one year run.
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All white European American women are and have always been divinely naturally created more equal with more certain unalienable rights including life, liberty and pursuit of happiness than either black African American men or women.
Ivana and Melania are both "better" in the hearts and minds of a majority of white European of Americans of both sexes than either Barack or Michelle.
1
Oh, I think if you compare Obama's (or Clinton's, or Bush's) first year with Trump's on what matters - read accomplishments, legislature, judiciary, economy - Our President is an absolute and indisputable winner BY FAR. Objectively, it cannot be disputed, for it is a fact; not the fake news' coolaid the readership of this fine paper is used to.
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Yulia--On what matters to you, maybe. Not on what matters to the majority of Americans who voted for Clinton.
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