I doubt any of the post 9/11 intelligence gathering apparatus will be rolled back significantly. No politician wants to be the one who voted for the changes and then face the public after a terrorist attack that possibly could have been prevented by the current scheme. Add in the contingent of "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to fear" folks and these programs are here for the long haul.
Just another reminder that the only part of the Bill of Rights the Republicans care about is the 2nd Amendment (or their imaginative reading of it).
When did Obama stop the surveillance of Americans? Oh that's right - never.
5
That's okay. Only democracies need privacy laws, and we are no longer a democracy but an authoritarian plutarchy on the way rapidly to becoming a Putinesque totalitarian kleptocracy.
1
The next time there's a successful terrorist attack in the U.S., opponents of the surveillance law will be among the first to say the NSA should have known about it but failed to protect us.
1
The whole world is watching, teary-eyed, as America sheds her democratic gowns and slips into a uniform befitting less enlightened, less developed countries.
5
Good. There will be more spying on Manafort/FLynn/Kushner as they COLLUDE with our enemies. That's how this whole Russia thing started.
Another Trump promise bites the dust.
1
Democrats, take note - there is rot that needs to be excised on our side of the aisle as well.
3
Can we please be sure that EVERY member of congress and the president are subjected to being fully monitored in all their communications, just as they have assured that every American is subjected to surveillance. Were that the circumstance, the Russia "investigation" would have a great deal of factual evidence to offer to the case.
What ever happened to that archaic document called the constitution? We squander every protection within but the second amendment, why is that?
2
I shutter to think about the lack of privacy future generations will have. Quantum Computing and Big Data are not slowing down.
Once 5g rolls along and connected devices, cars, homes, etc become the norm there is no stopping this.
How does a society revolt against technology? The next political revolution wont be Republicans vs Democrats, Communists vs Capitalists, but Man against Machine.
Why is it that Trump brings everybody to the edge, forces his staff to lie for him and he never falls off? What will it take for our law makers on the Republican side say, enough is enough? Surely, as a nation we will not survive 3 more years.
1
To be fair, they really are just trying to steal as much money as they can and as fast as they can. It's basically known as "smash and grab".
They need to use all of the means in their power to expedite the process.
3
Have we learned nothing? Apparently the privacy debate spurred by Edward Snowden is over. The surveillance state has won as it always will when people are scared into believing that the boogeyman terrorists will get them unless the government is allowed to protect them. Of course this is a farce. Our government had the chance to protect us and failed miserably on 9/11. What makes anyone think they would protect us any better if they can monitor all our correspondence? This is a culture of fear and serves no one but the government. As Ben Franklin famously surmised: “A nation that gives up liberty in order to attain security deserves neither and will lose both.”
7
The goal of monitoring calls without warrants and without having to have probable cause is to detect threats which are unlikely to occur but if they do the results would be catastrophic. In other words, the threats apprehended depend entirely upon the imaginations and circumstantial psychologies of the watchers. It is not rational and it reflects a responsible authority which is not able to assess real risks.
This puts lie to the Republican's concern about unmasking, the Dossier information and, of course, the Mueller investigation. When it's not about a Republican president, they're more than fine with warrantless spying on Americans. With the one exception for Republicans, the 4th Amendment is, to them, just toilet paper.
But isn't the reverse true? Don't liberals have selective concerns about civil liberties. I struggle with this. I think the way the Trump administration was(is) being investigated can be justified with ample probable cause. But in those cases where the FBI, CIA etc. took short cuts, the danger to the country was worth it. - Maybe.
1
It is difficult to understand the rage since these new protections were rejected by the Obama administration as well. That is why the would have been new. Reading comprehension does not seem to be a strong suit here.
Republicans believe in freedom and protecting the rights of individuals from a prying government, except when they get frightened by the idea of a few guys with guns — then they’re happy to roll back our civil liberties. Except for when those guys with guns are white voters from their district, at which point they’ll scream to the heavens to protect those same liberties. Hypocrites.
3
When will the peasants grab their pitchforks and storm the Bastille you say ?
I say never, unfortunately. The Security State or Deep State or Military/Security Complex or just plain Oligarchy has created the boogeyman or terrorism threats. Now, like good sheep, we can all be safe...............AT THE PRICE OF OUR FREEDOM.
5
The Republican Party is a business,.
Money and power are all that count.
We the People need to be “managed”.
3
The very people who swore an oath to preserve protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic are the people subverting the Constitution.
Political differing views from the two sides of the state, Democrats vs. Republicans, only show up when one side seeks something. Ridiculous drama aside, i.e. the Russia hoax, they will continue to gather intelligence on all Americans and use as they deem fit.
Time to throw these Republican and Democratic traitors out of office and replace them with Independent 3rd party candidates.
Unfortunately, Americans show no sign of having concern about their own rights nor is any kind of meaningful revolution in the works - non-violent or otherwise.
As long as that fact remains unchanged; as long as Americans allow themselves to be divided by the partisan war and division issues as sponsored by the CIA and others, then they will always continue to lose.
It was obvious during the run-up to the election that Clinton's embrace of neocons (including Henry Kissinger) and her tight-lipped, venal silence toward progressives signaled a new power coalition.
Can anyone believe that Clinton's more "comfortable" cohorts would have been less fascist than the right-wing tyrants we are now told to fear and resist from our armchairs?
Or that Obama and Clinton's support of the TPP was anything less than a shredding of our's (and any other countries') constitution and laws for the sake of corporations?
This country is doomed.
4
They "target" certain calls, but they record 100% of International voice traffic, in real time, and store it for analysis, "off-line". To be clear about this they archive EVERY international call.
Because the NSA listens to "select calls" they maintain the system is "targeted" at only a small set of calls. Depending on where you stand on privacy rights, you might consider this a bald faced lie.
The Senators in opposition to renewal were, among other issues, focused on the period for which intercepted calls were archived. To have a permanent record of calls made by US citizens is a chilling proposition.
2
1. Check out the texting and cell-call encryption app Signal
2. Since we are talking about purposeful surveillance, how about instituting bodycams for members of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of our government? It seems to be boosting accountability and better behavior for police. Transparency = accountability.
2
Nunes is protecting us from terrorists but protecting Russian interference in our election.
3
The information that is collected in bulk is never read by anyone so there is no invasion of privacy as far as those communications are concerned. The relevant question is how many communications by foreigners are of interest to those in charge of protecting national security, because it is only those communications that are read.
Now when Snowden revealed this NSA program those in the intelligence community claimed that he caused the country great harm because terrorist will now know that the US has the capability of listening to or reading their communications. So they will now know to disguise their numbers and email address when discussing their plans for committing terrorism.
As such it would be very interesting to know post Snowden how many intercepts of terrorist communications the NSA makes in a whole year. It would be surprising if there was even a single one. In fact in all the years the only intercepts we have ever heard about was "chatter'.
So the notion that the NSA is actually listing in any of the communications they collect is extremely not likely.
1
A little pragmatism please.
I don’t take for granted that NYC has avoided a major terrorist attack in many years. I have nothing to hide, and I’m in favor of an unshackled NSA.
Today dirty bombs are on the menu, with a lovely cabernet.
Thanks Pelosi and other right-wing Democrats who opposed the privacy protections. YOU are responsible for the total lack of enthusiasm for the Democratic Party and bear a lot of blame for Trump being in the White House.
2
4th Amendment;
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
2
Do readers understand that actual telephone conversations are not being recorded by the NSA as well as the contents of other electronic communications? The NSA is only collecting the metadata associated with the communications: name, number, location, date, time, etc. This information that constitutes the logs referred to in the article. And the article makes it clear that is foreign surveillance, not domestic, so the NSA is not spying on Americans per se, only unless Americans are communicating with foreign terror suspects, then they will be caught up in the surveillance. If Americans are found to be communicating with overseas terror suspects, then they need to be investigated. And by investigated, I mean that the USG should watch them like a hawk until they get ready do their evil and then go in for the kill. What's wrong with that? As far as I am concerned nothing. Nothing is wrong with that. And it is the least of which I would expect my country to do to protect me and other Americans regardless of their politics. Thank you.
1
This is just the thing that mr. fascist trump will use against his political enemies because in trump's world, there can be no political rivals.
And Sessions - as the rest of trump's cabinet - will be complicit.
His Attorney's General will be silent.
The GOP will be missing in action.
The politicians fail to realize that there is no place for them in the coming police state unless they join ICE.
2
This unconstitutional spying program, which has been kept alive by bipartisan support from establishment politicians (notice they can only find bipartisan agreement to take away your rights but not to "provide for the general welfare"), is just the tip of the iceberg.
The gorilla in the room, which even the NY Times will not discuss, is that the government is copying all communications.
If you want to protect your freedom, instead of letting the global corporate mass media fear machine panic you into submission, see these well respected (if occasionally hated) sources:
The Electronic Frontier Foundation
The National Security Archives at George Washington University.
James Bamford (see Shadow Factory, for example)
James Risen (who the Obama administration tried to send to prison for protecting his sources, and who's recent book explains how the NY Times refused to print his story about Stellar Wind for years)
Edward Snowden (who's passport was pulled by the Obama administration while he was waiting in a Russian airport while he was trying to change planes to get to South America; why would they do that?)
They copy your phone calls, emails, web searches, texts, social media files, everything. And they have redefined the word "collected" so they can copy everything, but claim it hasn't been collected until they read it.
Just one of the NSA data storage facilities has 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 bytes of storage space.
I'll take my chances with the terrorists, please.
6
smh smh smh
1
No deep state though huh NYT?
Isn't it unfortunate that the same Party that goes on and on about privacy and their American Constitutional right to be left alone in their own homes and communities...is now voting for Surveillance? What say ye "Republican voters, and those who are part of the alt-Right to defend freedom and privacy"?
This either proves that the House Reps are a bunch of wusses, or they are all working for Corporations, Russia, Israel, etc.
And nobody is confronting them?
Where are all the macho Repubs, Conservatives and Alt Right...that parade around with guns to show off and intimidate women protesting for their reproductive and body rights? Right is a bunch of hot air wusses. Right is made up of cowards. Repubs are wusses and cowards...Many of them might as well as start wearing women's clothes.
2
Spying on US citizens without a warrant is unconstitutional.
Why doesn't the NY Times story include a link to allow me to determine how legislators voted?
11
Because they're much too busy hyperventilating over T saying the s word.
2
We have a professional, experienced President these days. Even though we KNOW that he was illegally wiretapped/surveilled because of the Democrat-funded ''dossier''/creative writing class assignment, Trump sees the good results of our keeping tabs on anonymous Latin American gangs and the occasional Muslim running around the country.
OBTW, Christine Romans CNN actually admitted this week that corporations have to compete with each other to keep their employees happy! Is this lining up with ANYthing Chuckie Schumer or Madame Pelosi or the Obamas ever told you?
Way to go Walmart! Bonuses, a minumum wage hike, and up to $5000 for parents who adopt.
Oh, if you've said conservative things on Twitter and no one seems to be reading your stuff, we know why now. Check Project Veritas.
2
Dems: Trump is a fascist abusing his power!
Also Dems: Lets continue giving the president unchecked authoritarian power despite a bipartisan call to limit it...
#resistance
4
This (so-called) United States is dying. It is not dying by the hand of it's people, but by lack of guidance and misleading example of its current (and supposedly elected) POTUS. There are many bigots in the USA, more than average than in the world in general. What makes the USA different is that we have (had) the good fortune to have a goal of "ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL" ... remember that? Since this rank amateur of a leader has stolen office, he has done nothing but divide by eliciting and nurturing the deep seated bigotry that we have fought so hard to eradicate from our nation. I for one am sick and tired of being shamed of my nations current leadership. It is high time we bounce this scoundrel from office and prove to the world that we are NOT behind this disgusting mindset he portrays. The future of our children depend upon it.
1
Mr. Trump, this is what happens when you watch too much TV. If you had shown up in the office at a decent hour, like the rest of us, your day would have been much better. We know you like Fox & Friends, but sometimes you just can't believe everything you watch. I would have stated you just can't believe everything you read, but that would have been wasted advice.
1
Vote these anti-American resorts out!
2
Can't wait until Brian Kilmeade and Hannity are calling the shots in a hot war with Iran or Korea. Welcome to the Fox Presidency.
1
I wish the Times would begin to list who was voting for what in Congress these days.
6
Darn it. Do your job!
That’s what you get with a republican majority! Welcome to your authoritarian country!!
1
In November 2016, we were given a choice between two candidates, neither of whom was interested in curtailing the NSA or protecting anyone's right to privacy. This isn't a partisan issue, or one that has anything to do with Trump, as it would have been voted on the same way whether he had won the election or not. It would behoove the New York Times to make privacy rights, and the erosion of our privacy by corporate entities, abetted by our clueless politicians more of a focus of their reporting.
Does this apply to Donald Trump too?
What has Trump got to do with this? The anti-Trump venom has blinded people. Obama has empowered NSA, made sure whistle blowers like Snowden and Assagne rot in some enemy country or in an embassy in a friendly country by foisting false cases of rape, respectively and also had guts to snoop on German Merkel. The Obama fans (or slaves) here still think Trump is responsible for NSA snooping!
4
Actually this really got under way with Bush after September 11, 2001.
‘Like what ya doing. Me too. Thats totally rad.’ I would love to spend a day at NSA just listening to calls all day.
See ya laaaater.
The terrorists win. taking our freedom away and we got a stupid government falling for it
2
Comrade Donald: Stable?
Nyet
Tsar Trump: Genius?
Nyet
How would this have affected the collection of information about Trump campaign discussions with Russians? Help me follow this legislation better. I have three degrees and still can’t track what has happened.
Obama and a full democratic majority gave us RomneyCare, an increase in drone wars, didn't close GITMO, and kept up this panopticon surveillance.
There were enough Republican defectors to doom the bill had the Democrats exhibited solidarity.
But as usual, they didn't.
The DINO Congress continues to sell out its constituency as they wallow in lobbyist/campaign funds along with their fat salaries and benefits. Glaring treasonous acts against human rights and freedom under a long dead Constitution. Institutional corruption maximized by multi-millionaires embedded in government at every level.
Pelosi is so utterly pathetic.
I guess we should be getting used to it by now. But it stills make me slightly nauseous to watch Democratic big-wigs continue their move rightward, sidling up to Republicans on more and more issues.
Pelosi and Schumer are 2 reasons why giving control of Congress back to the Democrats will change NOTHING, as evidenced by this bill.
5
What if a Nuclear bomb is slipped into NYC ? Thank You NSA for doing a great job ! Many plots have been foiled - the Russians were just Thanking us ...
If u thought Trump was an Ayn Rand fan, pls realize he watches, not reads.
Remembering Trump first put that Michael "Lock her up!" Flynn in charge of the NSA gives me pause. Will the NSA be a vehicle for destroying civil liberties of Americans? It seems that at least the targeted emails must involve persons situated outside the United States. But who is to say if that standard is being followed, or sidestepped? Also, I'm remembering Trump's repeated Stalinist denigration of the American press as "the enemy of the people".
What powers is Congress putting under the control of this president, an open admirer of ruthless dictators?
1
OK, hand up of all who trust law enforcement to handle such information as the law requires? Yup, that's what I thought... nobody.
1
The President and his entourage need to be put under constant surveillance. They are a threat to our national security.
I think there may be a mistaken emphasis on the question of whether a warrant should be required. My suspicion is that the request for a warrant from one of our intelligence agencies is pretty much a rubber stamp procedure, and that few requests are ever denied. The problem is not in this detail, but rather in the very existence of this frightening capability, where information is gathered and now stored indefinitely, for possible later use under who knows what circumstances. And don't forget, it isn't only the government; it's every corporation (telecom, internet providers, social media, etc.) that has insinuated itself so thoroughly into our lives.
1
The 4th Amendment expressly forbids unreasonable search and seizure except by court ordered warrant.
It would be naive to believe that every person recruited to work at the NSA is an exemplary human being who would never do anything to harm his or her fellow human beings.
it would be foolish to think that the skills and gained in "cyber knowledge" would have no potential value for these NSA trained people if they left government service for higher rewards in the private sector. That work might include cyber security for businesses, theft of industrial or commercial intellectual property, cyber spying on personal enemies or rivals, exploitation of defects in software code or firmware.
Some argue that the NSA would never have time or interest to listen to all of the phone calls or read all of the emails between people in the United States.
However, some phone calls and emails might be more interesting than others.
Every member of Congress, every elected government official, judge, police officer, journalist who has a family, children with problems, unhappy marital relationships, sexual affairs, medical history, financial investments, drug or alcohol problems, or "private" secrets that they would prefer to keep "private," might be targeted and at a critical time be controlled by threatening disclosure of their secrets.
It would be naive to believe that using less sophisticated techniques that this has never happened in the past. Present a judge with probable cause.
4
These specific legislators obviously do not fear We the People. If they aren't looking over their shoulders now, then We are not doing it right. Whatever it takes. We need the proper amount of fear instilled into these legislators so they will automatically never even ponder infringing on our individual, inherent rights ever again. If their families and friends need to beg them to stop the tyranny, then so be it.
This cavalier disregard of the Fourth Amendment in the name of "national security" is beyond appalling. A similar breach of First- or Second-Amendment protections would cause riots in the streets.
2
So Trump screams bloody murder when he only thought he was being surveilled, but he and his cronies encourage surveillance of the rest of us? Once again, hypocrisy, thy name is GOP.
It's amazing how Republicans keep wanting us to believe government is the problem, and we should have much less of it, except - of course - to promote their right wing agenda like spying on us, telling us who we can marry, what we can do with our own bodies, and what bathroom we can use.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - inalienable rights? Nope, just hollow words to the GOP.
1
Outrageous!!! This is exactly the type of unchecked deep state nonsense Trump was suppose to be pushing back on! This, more than anything, is a travesty of Republicans not living up to what they've been elected to do!
Wow, I'm shocked that those who supported these measures under Obama are against them under Trump because Trump is "scary". People need to brush up on their civics education, any power you give to a president you like will also be taken up by a president you don't. I didn't trust Bush, I didn't trust Obama, and I certainly don't trust Trump. Warrantless wiretaps are unconstitutional and violate the 4th amendment. Maybe the Resistance™ will fight back? Laughable.
2
The Congress does not represent us at all ! They are the enemies of the state
1
The irony is that a phony FISA request started the whole "Russian collusion" nonsense and Trump could have ended it for the future. BTW, never Trumpers, you know that he can at anytime get the FISA filing used against his team and expose it.
The worst president EVER for wrongly tapping into reporters' computers and phones was Barack Obama. He not only pulled Jimmy Carter out of the basement of presidential rankings, but pulled Richard Nixon out of the position of ''worst abuser of power.''
Congratulations, Barack.
Let's all thank Nancy Pelosi for voting for this. Vote that woman out in 2018.
1
When a people trades civil rights for security, it takes the first step toward the loss of political rights and freedoms.
3
The real American values. Fear and paranoia. No other democracy does this.
4
I live too close to those namby-pamby whiners that coined an expression “nuke the whales”. Fortunately, I’m not a pothead or other weakling that can’t live for five minutes without some artifice such as gluten-free marijuana or something (Although I do sympathize for those who have celiac disease, just not those who claim something about that affliction Adversely affected by non “Organically” grown pot, or some other oxymoronic thing).
I tend to agree with Whoever that corporate iconoclastic Personality is that stated “if you have done nothing wrong you should have nothing to fear”… Or something to that effect. there is just too many paranoid sniveling Tweaker’s worrying About privacy rights etc. when it is their own hedonistic lifestyles that they fear are going to be encroached upon by Big govt.
I'd like to see a thorough investigation of the numerous ways our politicians in BOTH ruling parties and our government leaders in both Congress and The White House have abused their power, wasted OUR tax money, and enriched themselves and their families, friends, and "associates" over the past decades through secret "deals" with corporations, both foreign and domestic, wealthy patrons and donors, and government contractors. They should not be spying on US, we should be examining THEM!
3
Why are we so concerned about Russian influence when we have BECOME Russia, complete with a culture of warrantless surveillance and an oligarchy?
8
Advocating a warrant requirement is not the same as opposing surveillance.
Requiring a warrant is nothing more than requiring members of our government in law-enforcement and intelligence to be accountable for their actions, and leave a paper-trail when monitoring citizens.
In this age of instant communications, it has never been easier to obtain a warrant. FISA documents have shown that 99.97% of requested warrants have been approved. Nonetheless, the intelligence and law enforcement communities rail against warrant requirements as if a warrant is going to keep them from necessary tasks. There is just no evidence of this whatsoever.
It is obvious then, the real reason the government doesn't like warrants is there are unelected employees do not want accountability, and unfortunately, our elected representatives have not been inclined to require it.
6
And once again it’s all the same. Doesn’t matter who the President is. Hillary would
have done the same. The slow fall of an empire.
6
Terrorism is the best thing to ever happen to fear mongers and warmongers. It is the war that never ends. After 9/11 we changed and we have never gone back. This fear and the cost of the war will hang on the necks of Americans forever. Terrorism has always existed. We just never used to fear things that were not existential threats to the country. Except, maybe is was an existential threat. We are not the country we were. So, it was dangerous but only because our reaction made it that way. We no longer exist. The prison nation that spies on it's people.
5
Sadly there are 10 times as many comments about Trump's vulgarities (no news there we've known he's vulgar for years).
While he drives the conversation this kind of legislation will come back to ruin all of our lives.
4
This congress does not protect its people.
4
I think that evidence of a crime should never be ignored by law enforcement, simply because they came upon it by mistake.
But it is an unfair fight from a financial standpoint when it comes to ordinary Americans defending themselves against the federal government. We should require the Feds to pay the legal fees of any American who has to defend against a charge that results from FISA-authorized surveillance, and allow that American to hire any legal counsel they wish.
2
The Atlantic divide on this has grown to continental dimensions, not only with this US decision, but also with the new European Data Protection directive coming into force in May 2018, basically coming out at the other end of privacy and personal data protection. This is more than a legal matter, but a drifting away between cultures. Will be interesting to watch whether finally European IT industry will be able to convert this external boost into building an independent social and data media equivalent to and ringfenced from the US. Definitely China will.
1
The way I understand this bulk collection, it is sorted electronically by word/phrase/analysis and if an American is identified as a party to the intercept, a FISA warrant is required to continue.
The terrorists have won.
Throughout the western world, they have been successful in getting people to voluntarily give up rights that are generally designed to protect individuals from a heavy handed government. The threat of terrorism and/or instability has been used to manipulate people in Russia, Turkey, The Philippines, Hungary, and Poland just to name a few. Even here in The Netherlands, the government has been successful in passing a law that will allow the government to listen in on the communications of all people via all possible channels even if you are not suspected of any wrong doing. Furthermore, these communications could be collected and stored indefinitely in some government database.
People who march around declaring that terrorists will never be successful in changing our western values are naive. It's already happened and continues to happen and some of those same people are playing key roles to demand these changes.
The government says it needs these changes to protect me from terrorists. But who or what is going to protect me from the government?
5
Will GOP leadership in the House and Senate allow open floor debate so American citizens can hear their representatives discuss a healthy balance between privacy versus security?
1
This is unconstitutional. It's becoming clear to me that neither Republicans or Democrats are interested in freedom. Good luck to either party in trying to get my vote in the future.
3
please dont throw away your vote, use it as a form of protest and vote a major third party. if everyone who was disillusioned by the dems and reps would do that we would of had gary johnson or jill stein as president instead of this madness.
If spying is done with integrity it becomes a very important tool to establish the accurate facts and truth. At international level it becomes even more important to protect the country from future troubles.Spying just to create trouble for innocent and law abiding people or other nations over-through of leaderships ,however, should never be approved.We are a civilized nation and we should stay that way.Do not repeat the past mistakes and look how much these mistakes have cost us, the people.
Albany Rish?
Once again the House of Representatives is not representing the people.
1
Does anybody have the list of who voted for this thing?
1
The surveillance law does not target Americans directly. In other words, Americans may be caught up in the surveillance if they are communicating with the bad guys overseas. So as far as I concerned most Americans have nothing to fear from this law. As I wrote in an earlier comment, if you are communicating with the bad guys then you may have something to worry about, but if not, OK, you are good to go. To my earlier comment someone replied that they were for surveillance after 9/11, but no longer supported it since so much time has passed. I disagree, we need surveillance more than ever, especially with ISIS. I was directly affected by 9/11, in that 2 of my neighbors in Alexandria, VA, died at the Pentagon on 9/11. My colleagues in the DOD knew many who died that day. In fact, some people with whom I worked were supposed to be at meeting that day in the Pentagon where the explosion took place! That was a dreadful day in the history of America that must never be repeated! Those people innocent, but they died that day at the hands of the terrorists. It because of their deaths that I support this kind of surveillance, and I support everything this nation does to stop terrorism. If this type of surveillance could have prevented 9/11 then that would have been great. That's why we need it more than ever. Thank you.
2
A cell-phone call to 9-1-1 doesn't yield the location of the call. But any secret agent can pinpoint where his girlfriend or wife is every second of the day or night. And every favored CEO and his people can read the emails of competitors. And at a cost of only a few trillion dollars. How convenient for some, and unfortunate for others.
4
Good.
If you have noting to hide, you have nothing to fear.
We have too many enemies for us to to have this program in place.
People cry because of privacy over-reach then they cry about not being protected when we have a terrorist attack.
You can't have it both ways.
The problem with FISA is that trump thinks it has something to do with FOX.
What worries me more than unchecked surveillance is the unchecked POTUS getting guidance from FOX & Friends. I am sure Kim Jong Un has FOX streamed onto his TV to see when FOX & Friends tells the president to start attacking North Korea. Does FOX get its directions from Murdoch or Putin?
trump admitted during his campaign that he gets military advice from TV shows. Unfortunately that means from FOX TV shows as POTUS.
2
Donald J. Trump that paragon of western corporate capitalist greed and contradictions who as a elitist member of the despotic super rich never shared the pain and suffering of his fellow Americans especially those aspects related to the many abuses of authority he enjoys all too much:
Though he should be careful what he wishes for, he is not careful, and as such he complains of the very same policies he facilitates for truly he is the bumbling criminal if not the fool. As we can only hope "HIS friends" in the CIA, FBI, NSA, DEA, ATF, DOD, as well as the local police and community shoves an electronic bug up his derriere so that he dies honorably in that manner by his own hand rather than as the coward he is in that he is so afraid to admit exactly what sort of fool he is, in what he wishes for the American people and the world as he has no real sense of what he says and does.
Donald J Trump will go down as a despotic dictator or the most hated president in US and American History since General Santa Ana won won the Battle of the Alamo but lost Texas.
As Trump appears to sound like General Santa Anna who:
"repealed the Mexican Constitution, which ultimately led to the beginning of the Texas Revolution. Santa Anna's reasoning for the repeal was that American settlers in Texas were not paying taxes or tariffs".
Why are so many people focusing on Trump?
This only passed because those awesome moderate democrats went along with it. Stop buying Pelosi and Schiff's garbage and realize the only bipartisan work they care about is selling out the American public.
Yet again they fail to demonstrate any principles or backbone when it really matters.
4
Extension to the warrantless surveillance shows that Instead of guarding the freedoms of citizens granted by the constitution, the lawmakers are helping the state to become more intrusive and suspicious of society.
1
The ease with which this was slipped thru after intense and considerable press attention to the topic 2 years ago is depressing.
Basically govt can wait for the news cycle to pass and then change important laws however it sees fit.
A total of 250 comments here, versus the thousands about Trumps inane twitter yesterday also says a lot about how a modern government can distract citizens' attention from one thing to another (on purpose? who knows) via various media outlets.
4
Our Presidential Stable Genius was duped by his geniuses at Fox to initially and totally come out on the wrong side of the issue that he and his handlers intended.
It took Paul Ryan to feed Trump his Pablum, so that his brain would be able to function.
His stupidity is only Trumped by his inability to read even a paragraph, and comprehend an issue.
Perhaps if he spent less than 2/3s of his time as President secretly playing golf and visiting his business ventures, and watching less tv during his only working hours, which are 11:00 to 6:00, he might be forced to actually learn something. Or maybe he really is as dumb as he exhibits himself to be.
Without a doubt he's the laziest President in American history. And one of the laziest citizens of the US.
He's not merely an embarrassment to the US and all of us, but especially the entire world.
1
See James Risen's recent article:
THE BIGGEST SECRET
My Life as a New York Times Reporter in the Shadow of the War on Terror
https://theintercept.com/2018/01/03/my-life-as-a-new-york-times-reporter...
Details how he faced, "a broader crackdown on reporters and whistleblowers that had begun during the presidency of George W. Bush and continued far more aggressively under the Obama administration . . . to limit reporting on national security. But the crackdown on leaks only applied to low-level dissenters; top officials caught up in leak investigations, like . . . Petraeus, were still treated with kid gloves."
Follow the trend line, folks.
9
I was born in a democracy. I was very, very lucky. I now live in a police state, and I will die in one. Cry for the great experiment, the America that once was.
22
I was also born in a democracy, and considered myself very, very lucky. I once lived in a police state, but I made sure I won't die in one.
I also cry for the America that once was, but I also chose to emigrate in search of greater freedoms.
I agree, LBJ really messed up.
“The House of Representatives has taken a big step to ensure the continuation of one of the intelligence community’s most vital tools for tracking foreign terrorists,” he said."
Let's fix that...
“The House of Representatives has taken a big step to ensure the continuation of one of the intelligence community’s most insidious tools for tracking American's activity and attacking their right to privacy, by acting like domestic terrorists,”
He SHOULD have said.
4
There is an element of irony in some of the opposition to N.S.A. spying. By and large, the information they will be collecting about individuals is minimal compared to what gadget-happy Americans freely put online about themselves every day.
There are bigger threats to Americans' privacy and security. Some are of Americans own making, as no amount of hacking and data mining seem to be able to convince people that the internet is not nor ever will be secure. In any case, government spying on Americans is neither new nor worse, only the methodology changing as Americans' methods of communicating have changed, my landline and mail probably no longer checked.
At the same time, the American intelligence community has been a failure for decades, having become bloated bureaucracies, often inventing enemies to justify increasing budgets and power. Simultaneously, they became highly politicized, trying to please Presidents, not one of whom has ever held the agencies accountable.
The purpose of intelligence is to gather and analyze data, giving the results to the President and other policy-making officials. Instead, the agencies have tried to ingratiate themselves with Presidents, presenting "evidence" they believe he wanted to hear. Meanwhile, Presidents have given them legitimate military functions, such as the targeting drone program. Through all this, genuine intelligence gathering and analysis has deteriorated badly.
Bay of Pigs, Viet Nam, Iran, Iraq, Russia, North Korea.
5
More proof we lived in an occupied territory.
As if we needed it.
1
We live in a society where people film, photograph, and comment all day long on the internet for the world to see via a device that can be easily used to track every aspect of their existence (with or without their permission). Some of those same people post internet connect cameras throughout their homes, also hackable, as security devices. Still more people are now stationing devices that listen to their conversations constantly while they await a voice command to perform a task (Echo, Home, et al). We even give corporate entities our DNA.
In other words, we live in a self-imposed surveillance state, and while I am not defending the government invading our privacy, it seems absurd to worry so much about keeping the feds at arm’s (or rifle’s) length while simultaneously allowing secretive, powerful, multinational corporations have poorly regulated access to everything in your life that you hold sacred.
5
This is one policy, I do support. Remember, it was the same national security apparatus, (all seventeen), that discovered that Russia hacked into our elections. That drama that unfolded with Trump surrogates was incidental.
Remember, “Whitewater”? When all was said and done, we discovered Clinton infidelities.
The National Security structure, does more than most Americans will ever know. Having had the privilege of working with such folks, after 9/11, the threat that exists is quite real.
Remember, Uncle Sam is the landlord, like it or not. The government built the infrastructure and utilities, via the CC camps, during the Great Depression, that allowed us to prosper and flourish as an economic superpower and beacon of hope, throughout the world.
It is because of the National Security Structure, that we don’t have quite the level of mayhem, that they do, in other parts of the world.
Like it or not, America is, and will always be a “soft police state, that even Obama embraced.
Sorry, ACLU pundits, this is unfortunately very needed and necessary.
1
Hey, do your research: it was Australia and European intelligence and diplomatic communities that uncovered Trump’s curious behavior and activity with the Russians.
I believe this post was authored by one of the 11,000 psychiatrists and psychologists that work for the government security agencies, and put here for purposes of sending up a trial balloon. But I doubt anyone will believe that to be the case.
Keep believing that, while I watch and laugh at another one of your mass shootings. Funny how your police state is never around to control the mayhem when you really need them, but that teacher questioning a superintendent's pay raise? She's the REAL threat to America! Gotta take her down with EXTREME prejudice!
Yeah. You can keep that. Enjoy!
Trump's "new" position is hardly surprising, given his authoritarian inclinations. Somebody who demands personal loyalty from a FBI director is not somebody that's going to have qualms about domestic surveillance. The people who thought Trump represented some kind of third way are once again proven wrong.
1
Isn't there that dissenting opinion from Justice Louis Brandeis in Olmstead v United States? I believe the case was about telephones and wiretapping in the 20's, but justice Brandeis seemed to be anticipating technological advances something like the emails and cell phones we have today.
Are we still going to stand and sing that doggerel about the home of the brave and the land of the free in light of this development? I can't imagine doing that again.
3
On this issue, Democrats (as evidenced by Adam Schiff's comment, and Obama's history on the issue) can be as short-sighted as Republicans. The danger of giving government agencies so much power in domestic surveillance is the potential for abuse. Terrorist attacks are events that rightly cause anger and heartbreak, and of course we want to avoid them. But they are events the nation can survive. If an unscrupulous President is willing to abuse those powers for maintaining personal power, then America as we know it might be on a path of no return. We have already seen Nixon willing to engage in that type of abuse. Who's to say such a President won't come again? (Or perhaps he is already here.)
1
America died on 9/11/2001. There is no return to that, because America surrendered to fear and paranoia on that day, voluntarily. You guys have moved far beyond Nixon, and have went to Dubya, Obama, and now Trump.
America is lost.
1
Of course, Trumps thinks this whole surveillance argument is about him. Meanwhile, Big Brother, keeps his overlord position in tact.
Obviously, Republicans only propose legislation which is backed by their limited number of rich, white financial backers. Get the money out of election campaigns and watch things turn around for the better. It's a very lopsided playing field in favor of the top 1%.
Trump is following in the Obama footsteps, bad idea when Obama did it, bad idea now. At least trump has not ordered extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens, yet. I wonder what the flip flop will look like if he follows in obama's footsteps on that issue.
2
No surprise here, like "1984", the US has its own Big Brother. With a paranoid GOP, and "president", it is the perfect combination. The so called "Patriot Act" gave the executive branch a great deal of power; power that could be abused, by a President or political party. Some, who voted against it, were concerned of potential abuse. Obama and Bush crossed a few lines with this power. But, what they did, will pale in comparison to carte blanche to Trump.
The path to an autocratic, single party state is now in motion.
14
It's been in motion for a long time. Where have you been? Democrats have been complicit in this, too.
1
What on earth is the point-
of ramping up or maintaining current NSA warrantless surveillance -
when none of the geniuses in any of the security agencies can even figure out how to break into a criminal's phone log history??
Hilarious.
3
Continuously monitor the power grid for extraneous subaudible frequencies.
I am shocked, SHOCKED to hear that Trump's position on this changed and was re-'explained' by his handlers.
15
Details, me too. Trump should just "walk things back" like Obama.
For anyone who thought the Republicans, especially the Libertarian-leaning types, the small government deficit hawks or the strict-construction Constitutionalists, might still have even a sliver of intellectual honesty or political principle, this vote, along with the vote on the tax bill, should end any lingering illusions. They have even less credibility than Trump. They are totally without shame and irredeemable.
28
Sorry. I reacted too quickly on this. There apparently are some Republicans in the House Freedom Caucus who wanted to fix this mess, along with progressive Democrats like Keith Ellison. This real hypocritical villians here, besides the intelligence "community," are bipartisan: Nancy Pelosi and Paul Ryan. For details, see this excellent piece by Trevor Timm of the Freedom of the Press Foundation: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/democrats-just-handed-trump-more-d...
3
They too must be the deplorable's Clinton was referring to.
Just like the Democrats.
You do know this is bipartisan, don't you?
2
Since Congress failed to restrict warrantless spying and once again threw regular citizens under the bus, all that can be said is "Let the witch hunts begin!"
4
If it wasn’t clear before it’s obvious now. Congressional Republicans and especially their leaders, who are really the only people with power to dethrone 45, are more craven, avaricious and far more dangerous than I thought possible.
When even Fox News practically begs these cretins to save our constitutional freedoms, and they proceed anyway, we are in really bad shape.
And most of the worst of them don’t have the guts to defend their actions. They are lighting the match and walking away as the house burns down.
9
During the Obama Administration, not concerned about surveillance at all - trusted Obama Administration to be lawful and prudent.
Completely different under Trump landscape. There is no integrity or decency in the Trump Administration. Completely terrifying now.
10
The laws were passed by the Democratic led Congress and signed by President Obama. You didn't care because you really didn't know what was going on. As soon as the NSA had authorization to spy on internet traffic, they built a big facility in Bluffdale, Utah to collect the data. The Utah Data Center.
6
Obama began surveillance programs unheard of before-Twitter, emails, cell phone messages and histories, Facebook posts, and a lot of other social media. The media protected Obama and hates Trump, so now you hear about what Obama began.
5
LS, many of us realized that people went along with Obama because they liked him. But, many of us knew that when a person of a different party were to use these powers the cries of fowl play would appear. If it was good and legal for Obama, it is good and legal for anybody else. Now, did you feel that extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens was good under Obama? If so, get ready to pay the piper, if not, we should have heard from you long ago on this issue.
2
'...., Andrew Napolitano, turned to television cameras and said, “Mr. President, this is not the way to go.” He added that Mr. Trump’s “woes” began with surveillance.'
I think Mr. Trump's "woes' began when he started working with Russian banks and/or money launderers.
16
So much for the "party of individual liberty."
9
Accurate observation! At least it's not hidden as it was under President Obama. Only the libertarian party gives me hope, now.
1
Between the juicy Espionage Industrial Complex contracts and political CYAing, it's no wonder Congress found rare bipartisan support for warrantless domestic spying!
3
Trump lie? Say it ain't so!
3
Lol the country of freedom is in fact the country of surveillance. Greetings from Switzerland (I assume the NSA will analyze this comment; parsing it, interpreting it with a neural network (is ChrisQ pro or anti US? Is he democrat or republican? Whats his job? most importantly: is he a national security threat? Or, could he become a threat statistically in 10 years?), store it on their servers and trying to match this NYTimes ChrisQ with other online profiles. Maybe Im getting paranoid maybe not...
7
Why can't this nation fully acknowledge the fact that power gets abused, and that this has serious and destructive consequences? That limitations on the power of large organizations, accountability, and measures to prevent criminal coercion are necessary, and that, by subsidizing the arrogance of the intelligence community, we are aggravating the most destructive modern trends? Terrorism is a theatrical excuse, not a justification for this kind of stupidity.
3
Do we really need any more evidence of just how incompetent and inconsiderate Trump is. The man actually attempted to destroy a key provision of one of the laws put into place with bipartisan approval to protect us from foreign threats because he felt it was what enabled Mueller to get Manafort et. al. and probably would be used to get him also, but after Kelly and others screamed in his ear he thought it might be a good idea to reverse his position.
One more time. Please. Hold all these things in memory when November arrives. When we get rid of his sycophantic Republican supporters in Congress we will in effect be getting rid of him.
7
I'm against this fascist tactic in principle. But I can't help hoping that the warrantless spying gets applied to Trump and his family and entourage as well, to determine what connections they have to Russia, how they might be profiting from executive branch actions, and to see whether they're running afoul of the RICO act. I'm pretty sure Trump and many of his hangers-on are guilty on all counts, so it'd be cool if the NSA busts them.
9
Have you not noticed yet that, whenever Congress passes laws, they are FOR THE REST OF US, AND NOT THEM? Well, I have.
7
No. We can't have rules for people we like, and different rules for people we don't like. If there is evidence of criminal behavior by Trump and crew, then get a warrant and surveil them. There is no reason why evidence for illegal behavior can't be collected with a constitutional means.
Let's respect the 4th amendment. It was written to protect all of us.
Hypocrisy wrapped in irony, Conservatives wail and decry Big Government, yet are so willing to allow its intrusion into our privacy in direct violation of the Bill of Rights.
I guess you can get away with anything if you do it unseen behind the flag you wrap yourself in.
4
There's nothing like spying on the citizenry to bring the two parties together. This is why I have to laugh when people lament the lack of bipartisanship on Capitol Hill.
When the two parties agree on something, it's usually bad news for working people, witness the wonderful across-the-board budget cuts known as “the sequester", passed with strong bipartisan support.
Next year, when the automatic cuts to Medicare, Social Security and other non-military programs hit, thank both parties.
8
As I understand the 4th Amendment, search and seizure requires probably cause. To me this means you have to have probable cause before you record the information because that is when it is seized.
2
The data is information that you gave to Google or Twitter or any on-line entity. Those companies have a terms of service document that you agreed to whether you know it or not. You should assume that anything you look at, or ask about on the internet is traceable back to you.
2
This could not have been renewed unchanged without the support of the Democratic house leadership. If you really believe that Trump is a corrupt authoritarian liable to abuse his office - and the Democratic Party professes such beliefs - how can you vote this bill through?
5
Another President Obama gift for us. Because President Obama did most everything on the DL, in the Democratic-led Congress and by Executive Orders, we can vilify the Republicans.
Democratic leaders like Senator Feinstein and Reps McCarthy and Pelosi have very dirty hands. Don't let their feigned outrage fool you. They are looking for their slice of pie.
2
Let’s see, six out of 8 of President Obama’s years were republicans controlling the house and senate.
Son you need to get claro.
Since the law was voted for the first time, significant technical changes occurred; it's almost free to forever store gigantic amounts data, new powerful systems and algorithms can analyze all this data as well and will only get faster and smarter.
During Iraqi invasion, I worked with security of news outlet in Europe, US DoD did not like this site and tried to scare up the editor to change the editorial line, our mobile phones were listened to, we could not buy any service or product from US companies based in Europe. We made a first call to a company and asked for a proposal but never got any, they would hang-up on us on the second call. And it was in France 15 years ago...
6
I believe it was an Old Greek philosopher who once said, "those empires that inflict their brand of tyranny outwardly towards others will eventually turn inward and inflict that same tyranny on its own people".
10
Ex-pat in Western Europe. Dreading the day I have to return to ‘the land of the free; home of the brave.’
5
Shameful that this article generates so few comments whereas a Trump/Russia collusion conspiracy story generates 1000’s of comments.
The NSA, CIA, DHS, FBI, DEA, ATB and all the other "security agencies" are a much greater threat to America than any puppet president.
Our so-called representatives do not represent us. They clearly represent the interests of the unnamed, anonymous “officials” embedded in these agencies.
6
Deep State
My suggestion to the Democrats is, once you are in power, put your own man at the head of the NSA and CIA and then start spying on the activities of a few big Wall Street banks, Hedge Funders and Corporations and then start acting on that intelligence. See how fast they then become sticklers for the letter of the Constitution.
4
The Democratic Party was in charge of the US Presidency, the US Senate and the US House from 2008 - 2012. You were distracted by the recovery from the 2008 Great Depression. This part of the FICA laws was passed in the Democrat-led Congress and signed by President Obama.
2
What matters is the slow, incremental reductions in the scope of liberty and freedom, until its basis in the constitution and bill of rights becomes indistinguishable from any regular rule that applies to us. The incremental has been going on for minimum 17 years, arguably for more than that, and especially since the Bush regime promulgated their Doctrine of Preemption. That time period, and policies at that depth in the regime, is enough to allow liberty and freedom to become sedimented, not observable, and mocked as anachronistic. Now, only bottom-feeders remember it and have the audacity to uncover and renew it. We have 6 additional years of reductions. Is this nation able to withstand, without challenge, such a long assault on fundamentals and remain the same? I think not.
15
Police state growing stronger every day.
21
And it needs to. After all, it's not rocket science, that one day, another Bastille day is coming, and the lords of the land want to know beforehand, what the serfs are up to, so that they can intervene and stop it.
As an expat currently in Russia I’m embarrassed.
Wasn’t the whole idea about defeating the Evil Empire during the Cold War to prevent unregulated mass surveillance by Big Brother on its citizens and let The Soviet citizens have some Freedom?
Unhindered surveillance without a warrant is as hypocritical as it gets. Freedom to privacy doesn’t mean you have something to hide it means you have something to protect.
Politicians legislate and regulate what they want it’s citizens to do while exempting themselves. Wasn’t Watergate surveillance and spying at its ugliest - government spying on government?
I sincerely hope that Trump gets caught red handed in the Russia affair and is forced out by means of his own medicine.
8
Are Trump and his family, also American citizens, warrantless surveilled by the NSA?
4
Of course not! That's only for the rest of us.
They were - for months.
The dossier getting so much attention was the basis of NSA and FBI surveillance of Trump and dozens of people working on his campaign. Oddly - you should wonder why - Donna Rice and our UN Ambassador were credited with asking for unmasking of names of people accidentally listened in on - HUNDREDS of names.
Mr. Obama HAD to have been told. Can you imagine them NOT telling him?
This country is not worth defending at all. All phones are tapped, all email read and the largest prison system on Earth. It stinks.
4
What? Trump reversed himself? Whoever heard of such a thing. So much winning or losing or something.
The 4th Amendment still stands. Shrouded in fog perhaps, but its still there. All it needs is for a Patriot to stand their ground - on the 4th. They'll still be standing there when the fog is blown away.
4
Most of the commentary against the "Republican" FISA and NSA procedures omits that the laws were originally of bipartisan origin and still have bipartisan support. That in itself is remarkable.
All the railing against invasion of privacy and constitutional rights still has not provided a single case where the privilege was applied illegally, harmed a private citizen's interests, or delved where there was not probable cause to investigate. The Supreme Court itself directs the choice of FISA judges.
As for "Snowden the patriot," please remember that it doesn't take 1.5 million unvetted documents to uncover a crime, or foreign press to print it; delivering the documents to both Chinese and Russian sovereignty seems a very bizarre way to seek domestic remedy. Snowden knowingly compromised national security and provided comfort and material aid to our adversaries.
1
The USA should not need such a law to prosper and survive.
1
Edward Snowden is a better Man than anyone in involved in US government. He towers above them all.
1
I see zero reason for not compelling the government to obtain a warrant to conduct such surveillance. The 4th Amendment is quickly joining the 9th and 10th Amendments in becoming a dead letter.
6
We're all so wrapped up in Trump's daily outrageous blunders that too many of us disregard the less incandescent moves that lack a sexy element. This surveillance law vote is an example.
And how many of us realize that Trump is seriously considering imposing a 20% tariff on imported solar materials, meaning panels from China? The Chinese are way ahead of the curve on renewable energy materials. A tax on imports would punish the Chinese and open the way for American companies to intensify their efforts in this area.
If they chose to do so. They don't show much evidence of wanting to do it. Oklahoma, for instance, now lays penalties on owners who build wind turbines or plate their roofs with solar panel -- on their own homes.
The Kochs, on the other hand, will welcome such a tariff.
5
Ah, the GOP's limited government principles in action once again... Limited in its ability or will to help those in need (lazy takers), but infinite in its capacity for making mischief (even against its own citizens) using hi-tech toys.
For crying out loud, pay a teacher, pave a road, get the CHIPS program sorted out, do SOMETHING that is not some version of cracking down on those you fear or prostrating before billionaire entities (ensuring the proliferation of firearms in the hands of untrained amateurs does not count)!
3
Another step toward the emasculation of the US Constitution and the imposition of the Right Wing Fascist Police State.
8
Not ever going to forget Senator Paul who had the gaul to come on Morning Joe as Trump's toadie--just stick to Fox and Sycophant Friends for your propaganda.
1
I am not surprised. I think our government now ask the question:
"What would Hitler do?"
6
Cowards!
1
Trump accuses Obama (wrongly) of using this act to spy on him and his campaign. Now Congress is giving HIM this power? With his enormous number of largely imagined "enemies," he will almost certainly use this as a tool to spy on them. The ACLU is right to claim that no president should have this power, especially not Donald Trump. He cannot be trusted. The only bright spot is that, if Trump avails himself of this tool, perhaps we've given him enough rope to hang himself.
25
But you did not have a problem with Obama and Lerner’s use of power like they did. You have no idea why Trump is President!
2
this power has existed since a little after 9/11. you can thank bush and then obama for the fact that its still a law. trump has no legal reason to remove it - two presidents before him have already set precedent.
1
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Frankin
56
We are so far past anything like the country Benjamin Franklin envisioned.
It's Herbert Bush's "New World Order"
Russia and the Government are complicit.
5
55 House Democrats voted with Trump and the Republicans.
Tell me all about "The Resistance".
6
The article does not mention the Supreme Court. Many here state that the law violates the Constitution. What does the Supreme Court say?
6
I don't think that anyone has asked them.
1
The court ruled in 2013 that American citizens have no standing to challenge the constitutionality of the NSA's eavesdropping projects.
1
Here's the relevant Article (IV) in the Bill of Rights.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
It's a bit vague and leaves a lot of judgment up to the courts. Since the issue is constitutional and not merely political, challenges could reach the Supreme Court.
What their decision would be -- what with Gorsuch now having been insinuated into the court -- nobody knows.
1
Trump's support for -- or resistance to -- any policy, bill, idea, whatever, is clearly based on whomever he spoke to last.
3
Dear Copy Editors and all other people,
In the US there is no such thing as an “independent” voter.
Voters who are concerned enough with their country to help the party that comes closest to their views to choose the best candidate in a primary are affiliated, Ds & Rs mainly, but in some states one can affiliate with any party on the ballot - from Maoist Socialist Workers to Hard-Ayn Rand Libertarians, with Greens, Liberals, Conservatives, Farmers, Right to Life party and lots of entities in between these smaller groups.
It was less than a month ago that one disputed vote decided whether the Virginia’s statehouse would go D or remain a dead heat split between the two big parties.
If more people had affiliated as Democrats, Democratic Socialist Party member Bernie Sanders who caucuses with the Democrats ,might have faced Donald Trump in ‘16; now I’m not going to tell you my affiliation or who to affiliate with.
But if you claim to care about your nation, at least affiliate and help choose at least one candidate on the big ballot.
And news folks, Stop Calling the unaffiliated by something that sounds better than Red or Blue. Some voters seem to think there’s something noble about being “Independent “ when that really means ‘I’ll let others choose my choices for me.
I’ve heard both Republicans and Democrats who sit out the primaries they ignored claim that 2016 gave them “the worst of a bad lot”
Nobody “gave” voters anything except the minority who went the extra mile.
7
What is the point of voting Democrat if Democrats still vote to take away our rights? This was a bi-partisan bill.
2
I choose not to affiliate with a party of liars, cheats and war mongers, the Democrats, who are supposedly the option to that other party of liars, cheats and war mongers. That is not an "option". I choose to watch the two major corrupt, corporate parties and the media and know nothings who like sheep, support them, to die off, sunk by their rot. 55 Democrats voted with the Republicans to further erode our already down to nothing civil and human rights. Tell me there is a difference.
1
The Republicans want a police state. It is as simple as that.
9
The Democrats are no different:
“Obama Voters Protest His Switch on Telecom Immunity”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/politics/02fisa.html
“Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-administrat...
“US surveillance has 'expanded' under Obama, says Bush's NSA director”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/us-surveillance-expanded-o...
3
Big surprise, Five Eyes not giving up their most valuable assets, customized customer services.
1
Big Brother Obama succeeded Big Brother Bush in this malign attack on our Constitutional rights. Harvard Law Review President Constitutional law scholar and University of Chicago Law School professor Barack knew better than George W. and did even worse.
But for the patriots Senator Ron Wyden and Ed Snowden we would not know anything about Barack and W's failure to preserve, protect and defend our Constitution aided and abetted by the corrupt crony capitalist corporate plutocrat oligarch communications, internet, social network, mass media etc. from Silicon Valley to Wall Street to Capital Hill to the White House to the Supreme Court.
Obama brought more criminal espionage cases against whistle-blowers and leakers than any President in American history. FISA is a rubber stamp system that favors Uncle Sam over Uncle Willie Earl Jackson. Trump attacks the entire US intelligence and law enforcement structure when it comes to investigating his campaign and administration Russian collusion.
9
They could at least make us a deal. You legalize mine Ill legalize yours. Everyone would be happy.
We really need to take the marijuana profits away from the Mexican cartels and the black market in this country. North Americans Spent $53.3 Billion On Marijuana Last Year, Most Of It Illegally..That is black market price. If the government sells it that would double. Legalize it tax it and start working on infrastructure in this country. That would MAGA Isn't it obvious that we need this money infused into our economy? ><
3
What is disgusting is that this is against the Constitution, against everything that Americans fought and died for since the Revolutionary War, and un-American in every sense of the word. And not that I don't trust the NSA to safeguard the private information of individuals and use it only for national security purposes, but I don't trust them. The government has ALWAYS misused the information they gather on people. Remember J. Edgar Hoover?
There is no reason why we should want to make it difficult for the security agencies to catch terrorists - it's just that every person in the United States is a potential terrorist, because there isn't a good way of x-raying people's heads and determining what they are thinking. So everyone becomes a suspect, and millions of innocent people, emails, phone calls, etc. get swept up in the effort and classified as potentially suspicious in order to find the needle in the haystack.
Now take someone like Donald Trump, who is a congenital liar and as dishonest as the day is long, and whose campaign slogans were threats against his political rivals (enemies). Just think how Trump or someone in his administration could misuse information gained by this kind of eavesdropping.
Americans don't need to abolish the Constitution to be safe from terrorism. As a matter of fact, it isn't possible to catch every terrorist. But maybe we might attempt to get along with the rest of the world and see if that doesn't make the problem go away.
7
The failure of Congress to curb warrantless searches only reveals that terrorists have won. Their actions have pushed western democracies to curb freedoms and enhance the security state. It is unfortunate that so many Americans are all too willing to give up their freedom for security when security can never be guaranteed as in authoritarian states such as Russia. We only have the judicial system as protection and even there too many justices are willing to rubber stamp curbs on our democracy.
10
Apparently President Trump has either never heard or, if he has, does not understand this old aphorism:
'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
This is so regardless of the issue at hand.
8
Today's events make it astonishingly clear that Trump has no clue what is happening around him. He reacts impulsively to whatever is on Fox. I wonder whether staff even bother with intel briefings anymore. He appears (by today's events) to be a figurehead. (For what I don't know.)
As for FISA, I suppose I'm that rare democrat who trusts our intel agencies and thinks Snowden is a traitor, but I know that won't win many "recommends."
5
It will be important to see which Senate Democrats vote for this bill, because if it passes it will be the Democrats who are the enemies of personal privacy and supporters of the surveillance state -- or too lazy to think about it.
2
“No president should have this power,” Neema Singh Guliani, a policy counsel with the A.C.L.U., said in a statement.
Most especially this one.
6
I have a vision of the angel and the devil standing on Trump's shoulders, one telling him "Yes, Donald, we need this to surveil terrorists... and anyone else you want." and the other saying "No, Donald, they will use this to spy out your taxes, Russian entanglements, and mob connections." And Trump, super-genius that he is, makes his usual sagacious "I'll take one of everything" decision... Trump - always, always trying to have it both ways.
2
Imagine if Mr. Snowden, who is a true patriot, did not make public information that our own government was spying on us - American citizens, and paying for all of this with OUR tax dollars! You must all be afraid people, for when a government considers its own people an enemy, or at the very least, a tangible threat - as spying on us proves that it indeed does, the next steps are likely to include direct curbs on our other liberties, such as the right to air our grievances about our government's actions through public protest. It is plain that we live in a police state already, and the police are not only NOT here to protect us, but rather the wealthy, but that they have military weapons and tactics at their disposal to rapidly deploy against the people.
5
The only reason Trump wanted to turn off the surveillance is that someone explained to him the surveillance was on the foreigners - not on his campaign, family, and "friends" who were talking to the Russians. Once that was explained to him, he made his reversal.
4
According to those who were directly familiar with this NSA program, the way the program works is that they collect every single communication coming into the US from overseas, which amounts to billions of conversations a year. This is similar to the other program they had of retaining within their access the call logs of every single American.
So what both these programs shared in common was that no actual person within the government ever reviewed the call logs and certainly never took the time to listen to people's conversations. The only time they would ever listen to an actual conversation is if that American happened to have had conversations with a foreigner who was being investigated as being a threat to America by being involved in terrorism.
And while the government accused Snowden of giving up their secrets for catching terrorists, the fact that governments have the ability to listen in on communications is something every 2 bit criminal is aware of. One can only imagine terrorists communicating openly on lines accessible to American intelligence, saying it would never occur to the US government to attempt to listen in on us and were surprised by the fact that they did.
So the fact is that it is highly likely that in its whole history of this program the NSA never identified a single communication between a terrorist overseas speaking with an accomplice residing in America who was an American citizen that it actually listened in on.
2
Why is it that Republicans trust government when it comes to the first amendment and the fourth amendment rights but mistrust it when it comes to second amendment rights? Why do they think that corporations and wealthy individuals can be trusted, but that allowing everyone the same rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is not a good thing?
4
The same can be said about Democrats too: why they don't want no govt in embryo killing but are OK with govt when it comes to guns and welfare programs?
Of Trump, "He was referring to an explosive and largely uncorroborated dossier that details claims about ties between Russia and Mr. Trump and his aides."
That is simply not true. Of the elements that can/could/have been able to be verified - they have been. I'm not sure what it takes to change the course this country seems to be on with regard to privacy, attacks on the media, on individuals, on political opponents, on the poor and Middle-class.
But I sure as heck know that vaguery or 'incompleteness' in the interest of a narrative or in the interest of laziness will not suffice. Please view my criticism in the spirit of which it was written; we're heading down a dangerous path and this is, in our 200+ years, certainly one of those times in which intellectual apathy is tantamount to danger.
1
It's a military government. Prepare to defend yourselves, including against Nuclear weapons.
1
A fascinating insight into the way Trump operates. He is clearly quite clueless about the nuances of governing. He watched Fox News, an analyst spoke directly to him that he should not support the surveillance bill, he tweeted his non-support, Paul Ryan called him and (apparently) convinced him it was best to support the bill, Trump then tweeted his support for it.
He is completely under the control of two opposing forces: his base as voiced over Fox News and the Republican Congress as voiced by many members including Ryan, Mitchell and his own administration.
Our "President" is not capable of making up his own mind and sticking to it. He is rudderless in the seas of politics and the citizens are riding along, powerless to do anything.
The citizens' one lever of power is the vote which is soon upon us for the November 2018 Congressional and some State elections. We just need to come out and vote, whatever our convictions and leanings may be so that we, the citizens of the United States may be heard.
7
This is crazy to me. This legislation, essentially nullifying the fourth amendment, was passed as if the Snowden leaks never happened. Five years of debate about surveillance wasted.
105
Totally pernicious. The moment the foreign citizen under surveillance contacts a US citizen, that US citizen is also under warrantless surveillance
12
It seems like the Powers that Control want to monitor people who might know and speak the truth about the Powers that Control, and their immoral acts throughout the world.
4
Listening in on my conversations would be hazardous. So boring listener would run risk of head injury falling asleep at desk.
5
But, do you call someone, who calls someone, who calls someone, who belongs to the "wrong" political party, or goes to the "wrong" church, reads the "wrong" newspapers, or says the "wrong" things about the dotard-in-chief?
Sweeping up all data is lazy and ossifies INTELLIGENCE.
Whether its the Chinese and it attempts to remove its
citizens from targeted surveillance by searching for
patterns of "compliant citizens" or us just grabbing all
we can and ask question laters the notion of an Orewllian
police state rising is now a fact. Fortunately we have a
counterweight of private property interests (Google, Facebook,
Amazon, Apple) that are working round the clock to provide
services that while not untraceable are becoming more so
every day. Stay tuned America. And leave your cell phones
at home a few times a week.
6
I guess the executive branch now includes Fox News!
4
Fox and Breitbart ARE the executive branch.
Make no mistake - there is no privacy and we give up that right on constant basis.
1
The F.B.I. already knows my comments and my mind. You can publish them.
5
This law violates the Fourth Amendment, no matter how many under-educated and spineless representatives vote for it: "No warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Wake up, America. Congress is violating the law they have taken an oath to uphold.
21
The President's first tweet shows that he cannot help making everything and anything all about him. What a charming fellow!
2
Trump wanted to limit this so he could not be surveilled. Let's see what Mueller turns up - it might more than justify this whole matter. Good idea to never say or do anything that you would not put on the front page of the NYT!
I am a strong supporter of the surveillance law in its most stringent form, not a watered down version as some proposed. I am of the consensus that Americans have nothing to fear from the government unless they are breaking the law, doing something that they are not supposed to be doing, planning to do something that they are not supposed to do, or they are communicating with enemy. The only problem is that when information is gathered that indicates the bad guys are planning to something bad, then the authorities do not act swiftly but instead allow the misdeed to occur resulting in the deaths of innocent people. Once it is learned that something bad will happen, the bad guys must be apprehended and dealt with appropriately. The tragic killing in Orlando could have prevented if the culprit, a known terrorist sympathizer, had been apprehended earlier. As a strong advocate of surveillance, I indicated to the ACLU that I would not support it monetarily because it used Edward Snowden to ask on its behalf for me to contact my congressional representatives to oppose reauthorization of the law. I indicated to the ACLU that there would be no way in the world that I could support an organization represented by the biggest traitor in the history of treason, Edward Snowden. It is because of traitors, like Snowden, that I staunchly support surveillance. Thank you.
12
Snowden was heroic on his efforts to show Americans what their government was doing too them. The NSA is an unconstitutional entity with an unconstitutional mandate, and should be dismantled or completely destroyed.
5
What happens when the bad guys are *in* the government? Ask any Russian dissidents... ask any open-minded journalist in Turkey. Ask any liberty-minded person in Caracas. Your faith in the government is touching... and misplaced. Authoritarian crackdowns, unlimited surveillance, and repressive police actions will not make you safer... terrorists, the excuse used to prop up this massive and invasive surveillance, terrorists kill far fewer people than ordinary gun owners shooting other gun owners. If you're really, truly concerned with safety, perhaps you should favor stronger gun control (though I'm sure you don't) as a more logical solution, far more likely to increase your own personal safety along with everyone else's. Once again, the Republican 'keep them scared, and focused on scapegoats while we fleece them...' approach has worked, on you.
5
You make en error by assuming good intentions on the part of the government. That is a mistake. If we have learned anything over the years it is that governmental power is often abused. Your prescription for security is an open invitation to create a police state.
4
The law generally lags technology by a generation, it seems. In our digital age it is probably futile to expect that government agencies will not collect this sort of data and probably would be a mistake to ban such collection. The courts, and to a lesser extent Congress, need to establish boundaries for the use of the data in order to preserve the intent of the Fourth Amendment.
2
Ok, starting to sound a relic bemoaning another era. But boy, did we fall/fail -- so quickly. Not even five years and we've apparently given up on a critical civil right. According to this article "fewer lawmakers there appear to favor major changes to spying laws, so the House vote is likely the effective end of a debate over 21st-century surveillance technology and privacy rights that broke out in 2013 following the leaks by the intelligence contractor Edward J. Snowden." Five years and America folds on protecting privacy because why, exactly? Sorry, but I'll be debating it with my students, friends, family, and when I am voting. Just don't get why people are so soft on this. Not naive about governmental reach (I visit prisons), but we should/could be louder and longer with the fight. America = Technopoly because we let it be that way.
2
The most powerful man on the planet lays in bed with an Egg McMuffin every morning watching TV tweeting and following the advice of his most trusted policy advisors...the hosts of Fox &Friends. Meanwhile, the White House staff cowers in fear downstairs, waiting for the next Trump blunder and knowing he is not stable.
Despite his denials of the contents of Fire and Fury, there still is no indication that he can read or has even a basic understanding of policy.
5
I think it's good to check on communications with foreign nations, what I'm more afraid of is when Trump will want to do this to his political rivals, news personnel and anyone who doesn't like what his administration is doing.
You can say that it will never happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.
3
These days, indeed, what's possible is a given.
I see the problem here. Some folks believe what Trump says the first time he says it, while others believe what he says the second time he deals with the same issue, while others believe what he says the next time he deals with the issue, and on and on, ad infinitum. And as a special treat, Trump believes everything he says each time he says it even if it contradicts what he said previously on the same subject. In addition, he has staff from his Chief on down who are willing to humiliate themselves when they repeat what he says and then contradicts what they said he said after they say it. I now use these things he says as a special brain-building exercise to see if I can remember what he said on the, say, the 13th or other numbered time. This should keep my brain sharp as a tack as I enter old age. Even if I remember nothing at all that he says, it's been so entertaining.
5
You say the president is entertaining.......that is not his job and making a joke about his election is why he is where he is in the first place. Americans this is a serious issue and the future is now....
“Entertaining”? The worst and most dangerous president this country has ever had is “entertaining”? Maybe when he starred in “The Apprentice.” But this is much more serious than reality TV.
Either that, or I fail to get the joke.
By granting these vast domestic spying powers to our government It is becoming increasingly difficult not to conclude that we are actually living in that dystopian police state, still somewhat restrained, predicted by George Orwell.
For now, these vast collection schemes, governmental and private, so gleefully visualized by Hollywood, haven't destroyed the 1st Amendment and still cannot send you to a concentration camp or marginalize how you live by granting or denying resources based on your thoughts. Still, the framework is in place to take this raw data and transform it into actionable evidence of thought crimes.
The ultimate legacy of 9-11 and its odd bed fellows, social media and government spying on its citizens, in an effort to keep us perfectly safe and perfectly connected, neither of which is possible, planted the seeds that may ultimately flourish and choke out those mighty oaks we assert dominion over, liberty and freedom.
And for good measure, is it not fantastically ironic that our current president uses Twitter, and entrenched part of the surveillance apparatus, to first decry and the support the NSA?
1
Death and Taxes, the single tow things one can always depend upon as immutable.
The third is any government's inclination to take away your liberty and expand its power over you in the name of safety and its expediency.
2
The House voted 256 to 164.
I think it's important that the 164 be named so their constituents can easily know how much their Congressperson values their privacy.
7
We live in a police state.Everyday it is confirmed. Our current politicians endorse it .It is only going to get worse as the current corporate state eventually unravels.They will not give up power easily.Good luck
1
Trump reverses himself on every legal issue, every day. Only two issues are constant: Trump's admiration for Putin and Trump's refusal to show us his tax returns.
1
I fully understand that privacy, as we once understood it, is gone, thanks to technology. Although it is a concept (illusion?) that we still stubbornly cling to, that does not mean we interfere with the communications between or among private individuals without at least probable cause and a warrant.
There are some days when I wonder what good are constitutional rights and protections, and if those are becoming illusions too.
It's very disturbing that Trump and his followers can have control over U.S. surveillance, and it's easy to see the causes of the pivot in Trump's inchoate thinking on security.
Trump's first gut reaction was that intelligence agencies had gleaned some information between him and Russia, so that the surveillance act was "bad". But then he came to realize that now he can get control of the security functions in our government; hence his pivot to strengthening the surveillance measures.
We should understand the report on Putin's influence on Western democracies from the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations that came out yesterday, that notes,
"Although the U.S. government has for years had a patchwork of offices and programs supporting independent journalism, cyber security, and the coun- tering of disinformation, the lack of presidential leadership in addressing the threat Putin poses has hampered a strong U.S. response."
In the light of increased surveillance powers in our government, Trump's soft stance on Putin is disturbing and indicates that Trump could employ those enhanced intelligence measures to thwart his perceived enemies, thereby increasing Putin's footprint in our nation.
1
The 99% of Americans whose interests are unrepresented have one remedy: Vote them out!
2
Even if we concede that this surveillance buys us a measure of security, it's obvious that if our government should fall into the hands of truly evil people, we will have provided them the tools for a totalitarian dominion against which resistance is impossible. They will have the tools to record and analyze every word you speak or write. With smart phone data, they will also know everywhere you went, what you read, etc.
Considering our current "president", no one can say that our democratic system protects us from such a terrible outcome.
1
How well does "If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear." play in the age of Donald Trump? What is safe today may very well become a liability tomorrow.
1
Paul Ryan must have reminded trump that Jared and Flynn already set up a communications system that bypasses FISA.
4
The Drug Enforcement Administration and all the other under-handed agencies that subvert the intent of any meaningful privacy protections of the Section 702's harvest of all American's communications with the "Parallel Construction" charade are doing the Happy Dance today!
Correction: "Republican leaders in both the House and the Senate had counted on enough extreme Democrats and Republicans to stick together to extend the legal basis for the surveillance program."
It never ceases to amaze me that the "smaller government" GOP wants to spy on everyone in violation the US Constitution. Sounds very much like bigger, more intrusive government to me!
140
Republicans always "say' they hate big government until they can use it to their advantage. They also have no problem providing taxpayer money to fund a larger and larger military to fight wars around the world.
2
And don't forget the issue of telling a woman she must give birth. How's that less government?
But we had President Obama in office for 8 years with some years in complete Democratic control of both houses and what did he do about the Patriot act?. He had campaigned to end it but in actuality in office he strengthened the act so its both parties are guilty. Isn't it funny talking about Russia when all know we spy on every person on this earth including us the tax paying USA citizens. Funny right?.
1
Poor judgment on the republican side, an abject thoughtlessness in the value of privacy. Remember Ben Franklin's words? "Those willing to give up liberty (privacy) for some dubious security deserve neither".
1
So, by watching too much TV (he says he doesn't have time to watch); then, sending out a tweet to contradict his own position, making a lot of heads spin wildly and explode in the White House, Congress, and intelligence community; then, convinced by his Chief of Staff and others, he reverses again to get in line with his original position... all in a couple of hours! The result? He totally undid his own effort to show how he was "really" smart and a "stable genius." But maybe it was his genius way of confirming the observations of his own staff in "Fire & Fury".
2
This article predicts that Senate Democrats will go along with the continued spying on American citizens by the government without warrants.
If they are correct, then you should see why so many people see no functional difference between democrats and republicans. Democrats are up in arms about how dangerous Trump is, but will they vote to let him keep the power to spy on Americans without a warrant? Don't they know he could spy on them and use the info against them?
Some of the worst legislation to be signed over the last twenty years had been bipartisan, from NAFTA, the 1996 Act, the Iraq War Authorization, to the Patriot Act, and it's, and numerous National Defense Authorization Acts which have weakened the Bill of Rights,
Terrorism has killed less than 4,000 people in the last 25 years. It is a statistically irrelevant cause of death. We lost more American troops "fighting terrorism" than that.
But both parties use it as an excuse to poke holes in the constitution.
If you want people to vote for Democrats in elections, you have to stop supporting Republican attacks on our Republic.
All the comments I see are "Trump, Trump, Trump, etc." No one is holding to account Obama for his terrible erosion of the rights of U.S. citizens abroad and at home, and no one is castigating the legions of Democrats who voted on this the first time, and now once again support it. A shame all three presidents Bush, Obama, and Trump, and a pox on both the parties and houses for this.
2
Speaker Ryan apparently says that Trump understands the Foreign Surveillance Intelligence Act bill.
Riiiiggghhhht, Speaker Ryan. And Trump's completely contradicting tweets today absolutely confirm this.
He is very stable genius, you know.
2
Trump is like Houston weather. If you don't like it wait a day or two and it will change.
The N.S.A. doesn't need my emails to know I'm a freedom loving American rebel.
The Government already knows by the phones and mind wiretaps.
The Military Republicans are the enemy of Free America. They played the game well and have nuclear weapons against us. Revolt is not an option.
It's Armeggedon in America. Keep your faith. They can never have it.
All the people commenting here are right: no listening in on foreigners. And privacy is of course the primary concern of US and citizens around the world as they publicly post every last detail of their lives on social media.
And of course, of course, as long as we act nice all the time and bury our heads in the sand no one will attack us.
Big business does this when they data mine the internet for your information. Those commercial entities don’t pretend that they need anything to snoop and scoop public information. How many times do we see an ad for Harry’s razor blades on the NYT?
It isn’t simply a matter of government monitoring of information. It is a matter of personal privacy being attacked from all entities.
1
I believe the Republican desire to spy on Americans, deny them health care, and their efforts to build the military government is ample proof that we must destroy them. The Constitution provides the justification for fighting all enemies of America, embodied in the "People", either foreign or domestic and the Republican movement is an enemy of America.
The cruel irony of this surveillance is that technical experts within the NSA had figured out a solution to spy on international communications with terrorists that did NOT infringe on then-existing laws governing domestic spying. This was ca. 2002, very soon after 9/11. But the Bush administration wanted a broader set of tools, and overruled the experts, yielding the program we are still debating now. It's ridiculous how politicians ignore scientific and technical experts to enact their personal agenda.
2
Most disappointing is the Times' failure to report the most important statistical question here: how many actual terrorist attacks have been foiled and terrorists caught resulting from this unconstitutional program?
Ignorant supporters of the program love to answer "it's classified". Patriots like Snowden who know the answer and act accordingly reply "it's zero" and are sent into exile. These programs provide NO security in exchange for the freedoms they discard. Ironic that when RT describes the US as a surveillance state it's punished as "propaganda". The reality is, Americans desperately need RT because the NYTimes prefers not to report the truth.
3
Clearly, America has to worry a lot more about "internal" terrorism than that which originates from the outside. Oh, right, the guy who sat in the room at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas "picking off" hundreds of people and killing 58 of them was American born and "white". I guess then he really wasn't a terrorist.
1
I've come to the conclusion he is not just Putin's Puppet he is all the Republican politicians Puppet as well as Fox News' Puppet...it's exhausting
This is the source of the "gang stalking" program, isn't it?
And these poor targets think their minds are being read lol.
And of course, the result is all the mass killings.
It's a brave new world. Shame.
Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
Reasonable people can disagree on these FISA provisions, but it would be nice if Trump actually knew which provisions Congress is considering so he could at least discuss it intelligently (yeah, fat chance that might happen). He is completely useless and has no leadership skills whatsoever.
Trump was a liar yesterday and remains a liar today. Will not change tomorrow.
Any Democrat who thinks warrantless spying on US citizens by this government is a good idea, doesn’t understand the 4th amendment, and doesn’t deserve to call themselves a Democrat.
3
Will the dictionaries published this year include the words free and brave?
Big data, big cars, big appetites, Big Brother . . . Big deal.
Geez-o- Pete... If America wanted a game show host so badly as president couldn’t we at least have elected Alex Trebek?
This is a significant blow to the American right to privacy. What's next? Voting rights are under attack from the WH and its minion, Kris Kobach. ICE agents are raiding 7-11s. What is that about? Is there some systemic danger from all-night grocery clerks that I haven't heard about? The right to choose is under assault. Freedom of the press is challenged every day with a new threat from the president to seek more protection from libel. Where does this end?
1
well, it looks like the strings are still working well on the puppet ...
they can even make the puppet slap himself in the face ...
So, just the same as Obama did while in office?
1
John Kelly was spotted in a House cloakroom.
Presumably he was carrying his dagger.
Does trump have any convictions at all?
Beware, big brother will be also watching Trump. The Putin eye in the sky will be hovering over Capitol Hill.
Good Lord! when you have a FOX News analyst turn directly to a camera and advise the leader of your country...
Please tell me, AGAIN, that FOX is not merely another branch of the GOP. If Obama had taken suggestions from Rachel Maddow or Keith Olbermann the conservatives would have had a field day!
1
Paranoia, another indicator of national decline?
According to Peterson (2009): "In theory, if you can control the fabrication of chips, software or computer hardware then you can control the electronic systems of the world. And politically, that would give anyone – any government or any other organization – a huge amount of power. It would be the biggest political stick one could carry. It could give someone almost total social, political and economic control.” (P. 10)
Cite:
Peterson, Wade D. (2009) The CLASS Machine and the Validity of Moshovos et al. ‘752. Silicore Corporation, 30 NOV 2009. 112 pages From: (11 JAN 2018)
Proving once more that when it comes to "Deep State", the GOP is only referring to the right to arm violent men.
'' The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. It requires governmental searches and seizures to be conducted only upon issuance of a warrant, judicially sanctioned by probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. ''
OK. so how does the government spying on all of us jive with the law ?
It doesn't.
However, there is a radically right wing government backed by a radically right wing SCOTUS, so this is what you voted for people.
( at least a clear minority of you )
1
Resistance is futile.
Wow!
Less and less separates us from a Russia, a Belorussia, a China, a Saudi Arabia, a North Korea, or any third-world tin-pot banana republic.
Where is a copy of the U.S. Constitution when you need one.
1
Please publish the voting record
2
"Dances-With-Wolves"... "Stands-With-Fist"... We now have President "Picks-At-Scab".
1
Weren't regressive wingnuts everywhere up in arms about this when Obama was President and did the same thing?
51
Yeah but now it’s cool because republicans are gonna be in power forever
1
Yes Matty but you're forgetting the key difference: President Obama was black.
1
"regressive". funny.
Yes, we PROgressives were. We have been consistently opposed to this unconstitutional program, initiated by GWB.
4
Freedom is not currency to be spent on security.
22
To quote Ben Franklin:
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
If there was any doubt whatsoever that DJT is a puppet of Faux News in addition to Putin, this bald admission should leave no one wondering anymore.
Politicians used to be flayed for being flip-floppers; now, it's just an excuse to condone stupidity.
14
Is this any different than President Obama flip-flopping on gay marriage?
That being said, this regressive, proud Trump-supporting wingnut hates this bill. There is a large intelligence-industrial complex that employs thousands of earnest GS-14 types in northern Virginia and across the country. These people mean well, but they can only sift through the volumes of information captured. The US would do better to employ fewer but more talented analysts (read: not SJW-types) who attempt to identify threats. Instead, our earnest GS-14s keep shuffling papers and drafting reports in a great exercise of kabuki theater with all of the effectiveness of the TSA.
1
Another perfect example (as if another was needed) showing Donald Trump's. His morning "Executive Time" is spent watching Fox News (an entertainment channel) gathering his idiotic talking points. Please, Mr. Mueller, hurry. I'm not sure how much more this country can take.
64
Don't be so sure that Mueller investigation will achieve the result you want. Trump is a survivor and he will serve up whomever he needs to in order to protect himself.
This article predicts that Senate Democrats will once again go along with these exceptions to the constitution, despite the danger that Trump poses wielding this extra-constitutional power.
So if you are worried about Trump, call your Democratic Senator and demand they vote against this bill.
And yet...we have not had a major mass casualty terrorist attack like 9/11 in the US since. Probably just a coincidence.
6
Uh, San Bernadino?
2
ah yes, 9/11 back in the good 'ol GWB years, ignoring the warnings from the outgoing Clinton administration. President Obama did keep us safe, but now that we have once again handed over the country to a sociopathic republican anything is again possible.
And what about Las Vegas? That was not mass terrorism?
2
Your problem is not "external terrorists" it is the "internal" ones.
1
Get. Smart.
Yeah.
No truer words has he ever spoken.
2
256 traitors to the consitution.
13
When Congress decided to retrospectively "legalize" the illegal spying that had been conducted under the Bush administration, civil rights advocates warned that giving such (obviously unconstitutional, I would argue) power to the government was unwise, because some day dishonest people might inhabit the White House. And here we are.
22
Is there anybody who is concerned about the "deep state" who still support GOP and Trump? The multimillionaires have other priorities and we can understand why they are on board - but if you don't have absurd wealth to protect why would you continue to be fooled by these people?
12
His base is willing to sacrifice ANYTHING because he nodded and winked about their racist urges. They expect those implied promises to come to fruition.
As to "Is there anybody who is concerned about the "deep state" who still support GOP and Trump?" Not sure you got that quite right. Theory being the "deep state" is a threat to Trump, so if you don't support Trump it would seem to follow logic that you would be rooting for the deep state, not "concerned". Thus also Trump's attempts to gut it.
1
just like the big deal reporting that walmart is now raising pay to $11 per hour thanks to the taxt cuts which will give them trillions! $11 and hour is $444 per week for a full time job. That is obscene. Its the wealthy of the world. the Putins and the Trumps who want all the wealth and slaves of all colors to doo the work.
Ignorance
I hope this puts to rest any notion the Freedom Caucus believes Americans should be free from unreasonable searches and seizures.
16
This was not a party line vote. There were Republicans that voted against it and Democrats that voted for it.
Why would Democrats vote to give Trump more power to undermine the constitution?
Gotta love Trump: the president who represents the beliefs of every single one of us. If you don't like something that he says, just wait a day or two, it'll change.
7
It is not a Trump reversal; it is an inversion between PARTS. I won't state the JOKE for fear of having this comment not approved; however, people who are SMART will be able to figure out the joke ! Yes, "Get Smart" the TV show, would be appropriate for a cameo appearance by this grifter.
3
I don't know how these so called patriots and freedom loving lawmakers, especially the Republicans, can sign away our freedoms.
They are the sort who, during the American Revolution, would have said, "King George isn't so bad. What's wrong with warrantless searches? After all, only the criminals and traitors have something to hide!"
This is not just the Republicans. As a country we've put safety over freedom.
7
Maybe you've forgotten 9/11/01, but there we coordinating messages that helped the terrorists.
I remember when the government tried blackmailing Martin Luther King, but the attempt ricocheted on the FBI. Have more faith in us.
The government now regularly shares intelligence back and forth with global corporations, owned by the billionaires that make 90% of political donations. There is a bipartisan effort to sell it our republic and weaken our constitution.
1
Let's all remember that this is merely an extension of the same warrantless surveillance that was enacted under presidents Bush and Obama. Republicans and Democrats both supported this. It is all a part of the bipartisan effort to overfund our military, industrial, and intelligence complex. Unless and until we elect leaders that will call out the insanity of our militarized foreign policy and our militarized law enforcement domestically, we can only resist by organizing and planning for the day we can begin to dismantle these threats to our democracy.
17
'Probable Cause' is the constitutional first criterion for obtaining a warrant. To search the communications of free citizens without it is to rob them of their personal security. While, as Lincoln noted, the Constitution is not a suicide pact, neither is it to be ignored in peace-ish times in the name of expediency. (The term 'peace-ish' allows that, since 1949 the United States has been involved in essentially constant undeclared military action which we tend to call wars.)
The NSA has used the secrecy state to exceed its authority almost since it's (secret) creation. NSA was said to stand for 'No Such Agency'. There are constitutional grounds for domestic spying, but they require warrants. Congressional cowards are as afraid of requiring warrants as they are of declaring war.
“A republic ma’am, if you can keep it.”
11
A lot of discussion about the 2nd amendment. Not so much for the 4th amendment....
27
The 2nd amendment has a powerful lobby with a profit motive to fight for it. The 4th amendment has no such support. Instead, the 4th amendment faces business interests that profit from eroding that amendment by selling ever more intrusive surveillance abilities to the government.
As a side note, the 1st amendment also might be in trouble if the business interests of the media didn't align with freedom.
I am pretty sure this is Unconstitutional. Why? Because it forbids it in the Constitution! Why do we continue to let the government that the Constitution created continue to erode its very reason for existence?
8
Why do voters let politicians do this?Because 75% of stocks in global corporate mass media is owned by global billionaires who are trying to turn our republic into a capitalist totalitarian state like China and Russia. So they hype up the smallest of "terror" attacks to raise the level of panic among the people. Terrorism has killed less than 4,000 people over the last 25 years. It is a nearly insignificant cause of death. But because of it, we are letting politicians, bought and paid for global billionaires undermine our constitution.
Even with the clear danger that Trump poses to our freedom, Democrats are still voting to give him more power. Compromise for the sake of compromise is bad.
1
The obvious goal of this is to spy on Americans, not catch terrorists. Otherwise, why cast such a mammoth dragnet? This is a backdoor excuse to infringe on our civil liberties, a sort of tech version of stop-and-frisk.
11
As a foreigner my fear is not that they sniff through my conversations looking for keywords, it's whether they store information safely, who they share it with and how they make decisions to act on information. This is not significantly different from preocupations with privacy standards at private companies that amass information about our shopping habits, whether financial companies or supermarkets or online retailers. In fact one concern with such large scale data collection seems that the US government is imho not very good at keeping secrets. Plus governments wield enormous power and can mess up lives based on the decision of just one bureaucrat. Checks and balances should always be in place so people have a way to protect themselves from government incompetence or injustice.
3
Yes, the real problem is when you become a politically active citizen and they search through your communications looking for a way to neutralize you.
Last year the Trump administration tried to get a list of everyone that went to a site looking for information on anti Trump protests.
There are people facing twenty years for conspiracy charges, because they went to the same demonstration as a few people that flipped over a police car, even though prosecutors say they had nothing to do with that act.
Your freedom depends on the constitution. Every exception to the constitution puts you one step closer to dictatorship.
1
"Get smart!"
And does Trump make calls with his shoe, too? (See also: Don Adams.)
This presidency needs 2 things: 1) removal of Trump's cell phone; and 2) removal of Fox News, especially Fox News from the White House network.
It is unbelievable how closely Trump tracks Fox News in deciding what his policies should be. That alone shows that the word "smart" is not in his vocabulary, stable genius or not.
6
I applaud the move. I hope that corporations and banks that launder terrorist money are swept up and their CEOs tried for treasonous actions just as I hope Trump is for laundering and obstructing justice.
4
Lol. They don't go after those people. They go after the political opponents of those powwow.
Google Fusion Center
Shameful but not surprising. It's bad enough that we are represented by politicians who are bought and paid for by the wealthy elites who run most of our institutions. That includes both parties. These people continue their relentless assault on the working class, but it isn't enough. They also want us living in a police state where our basic freedoms are severely restricted. The threat of arrest and incarceration are their answer to freedom of speech and expression. And we sit idly by as the situation deteriorates. Shame on all of us for letting it get to this point.
3
I used to watch "Get Smart" when I was a little kid.
Trump's version: all of the bumbling, none of the funny.
16
We have met the enemy. And it appears to be the GOP...
15
Also including the the 65 democrats who voted for this and excluding the 45 republicans who voted against it. No, from 2003 to 2018 the evisceration of the fourth amendment has been manifestly bipartisan from presidents to representatives, my friend.
1
Democrats voted for this!
1
When the real man in charge is a general- John Kelly- the entire world is a battleground and everyone else is an enemy. This is why generals do not make good leaders.
59
Well, perhaps one, Dwight D.Eisenhower, whom in his outgoing speech as President, among several other subjects, warned everyone of the growing influence of the Military/Industrial complex, a group that did not exist prior to WWII. It is also interesting to note that in that same speech he warned of political parties(like his own) starting to utilize policies, all of which, the Republican Party is using today, to undermine America and the majority of its people. After he left the Presidency, he also spoke in later speeches of armaments for that M/I Complex that if not built, what could be done with that money to help every day Americans. It is quite mind boggling.
If he saw what his party has become, I am sure Eisenhower would be rolling in his grave.
14
Eisenhower was a pretty good General and President. He helped create the infrastructure that is the backbone of this country's commerce and travel.
2
Tell it to Eisenhower. The last very good republican President. Business people do not make good Presidents. Hoover, Bush II, and our current disaster of giving "a businessman a try."
And do not think for one second that General Kelly is in charge. Trump is in charge. He has spent a lifetime running a one man show. He can fire Kelly with nothing more than a stroke of his pen.
1
Every Democrat who voted against the amendment that would have overhauled the FISA Act and ended warrantless spying on civilians must be thrown out of office with extreme prejudice. They are unworthy of calling themselves Democrats. That includes, of course, Pelosi, Hoyer and Wasserman-Schultz. Shame on all 55 of them!
10
Can we put to rest the fiction that the GOP is a party that cares about individual liberties? The house GOP probably thinks that the best way to protect your privacy is to buy more guns.
88
Please report how each member of the House voted, on both the proposed limitations amendment and the final bill without those limits.
12
Boy, all that Republican bellowing about restraining the State sure went out the window fast, didn't it?
The only thing they threw overboard faster was all that guff about debts and deficits.
86
and "freedom."
2
"Representative Justin Amash, the Republican of Michigan who sponsored the privacy measures, expressed disappointment but vowed to keep fighting."
1
And, by letting CHIP croak, that 'guff' about caring for kids... any kids.
Creepy, creepy, creepy.
1
The ability to surveil is more justifiable when the government is controlled by ethical and truth-seeking individuals and less so when controlled by miscreants who don't care about the rule of law.
7
Unfit. There is no other word to describe the president of the United States. This episode demonstrates the "Fox eFFect" and why Trump is unfit to be POTUS.
11
There is an element of irony -- or is it simply humor -- in some of the opposition to N.S.A. spying. By and large, the information they will be collecting about individuals is minimal compared to what gadget-happy Americans freely put online about themselves every day.
There are bigger threats to Americans' privacy and security. On one hand, they are of Americans own making, as no amount of hacking and data mining seem to be able to convince people that the internet is not nor ever will be secure. In any case, government spying on Americans is neither new nor worse, only the methodology changing as Americans' methods of communicating have changed.
At the same time, the American intelligence community has been a failure for decades, having become bloated bureaucracies, often inventing enemies to justify increasing budgets and power. Simultaneously, they became highly politicized, trying to please Presidents, not one of whom has ever held the agencies accountable.
The purpose of intelligence is to gather and analyze data, giving the results to the President and other policy-making officials. Instead, the agencies have tried to ingratiate themselves with Presidents, presenting "evidence" they believe he wanted to hear. Meanwhile, Presidents have given them legitimate military functions, such as the targeting drone program. Through all this, genuine intelligence gathering and analysis has deteriorated badly.
Bay of Pigs, Viet Nam, Iran, Iraq, Russia, North Korea.
34
"By and large, the information they will be collecting about individuals is minimal compared to what gadget-happy Americans freely put online about themselves every day."
Dont you see your illogic in that sentence?
That some people in their lives choose not care about their personal data and their data privacy, does not somehow make it A-OK for a govt to collect citizen data non-stop from all of those citizens.
6
You are missing the point. If you post on Facebook etc., you are making a voluntary disclosure. The surveillance law is NOT voluntary.
1
last i checked, facebook, twitter, and google dont have prisons they can put you in. the government does. the tech companies mentioned above (and many more, like apple, amazon, etc) dont hand over information about their american users unless there is a warrant.
I highly doubt Trump wrote that second tweet. Way too coherent.
12
Congress again abdicates its responsibility to ensure the safety of all Americans under the Bill of Rights. If this law only allowed surveillance of the bad guys overseas then they wouldn't have left the door so wide open to "incidental" collection of communications of Americans on American soil.
Without meaningful restrictions and accountability we know for a fact that this law and other open ended laws like it have been used to justify mass surveillance of Americans on American soil. Without reporting requirements spelled out in the law to not only report "targeted" communications but also "incidental" collection neither the American people or Congress will ever know if this law is being used for mass surveillance of Americans on American soil.
Now it is solely up to the president to order the intelligence agencies and department of justice to tell him, Congress and the American people about how many Americans on American soil are getting swept up in this surveillance dragnet.
34
a FISA court still has to approve the application.... this will have little effect on 99.99% of the public.... but it will help indict stumpy...
1
"a FISA court still has to approve the application"
numerous articles have pointed out that this approval is rubber stamped. And the FISA "court" in actually one person who approves them all. Easy to verify this fact with a search. So the "approval" vetting process for the warrant means literally nothing.
Trump has obviously never even read the Constitution, since almost everything he tries to do or suggest is a direct contradiction of the Constitution. There were always people, particularly Southern racist slaveholders and later segregationists who have hated the Constitution and, in particular, it's protections of the rights of people they hate (anybody not exactly like them). Now, with people like Trump & Sessions and a right-wing judiciary and SCOTUS, the Constitution has become just an arcane piece of parchment to wave around while ranting against it's protections.
What is this fix to the unmasking process that Trump personally directed? Can someone explain what he means?
One of the scary things here is that if someone goes on the Fox channel at the right moment and asks the president to do something, he will do it. Is this what our democracy has been reduced to?
10
Covfefe! There, that should explain everything.
Who's running the country?
John Kelly, Fox or Paul Ryan and his GOP cronies?
It sure doesn't look like the Stable Genius is (which might actually be a very good thing.)
9
Actually, it's not a good thing if any of the above mentioned in my previous post are running the country either (especially Fox "News.")
Ain't nobody minding the store. About half the people think that this is a very good thing. This allows people to rip off the government at will- Corporate extractors, polluters, ranchers and various and sundry other kleptocrats.
Just watched 1984 - the movie. We should make all members of Congress watch this movie so they can see where Society is headed.
2
Carl:
That is "exactly" what they want!
1
Ah.... I think they would see it as a blueprint, so maybe best not.
So many comments expressing outrage, fear that this program is a step into totalitarian oppression of the people. It's not. It was passed by the representatives of the people, to protect the people.
It is an essential part of researching patterns of communication that can identify those who would destroy our democracy and its institutions.
This program has existed for many years. To those who decry it: Name a single instance where it was misused. And, please: Don't quote Ben Franklin. He long time dead, and times change.
2
For those like yourself, in a state that decries "big government" all of a sudden, this is OK with you? Americans only really became aware of the NSA and its activities after it was exposed by Edward Snowden and Wikileaks.
This group is not accountable, hence, not democratic and in that case how would you even know whether or not it was misused?
4
Given that the use is secret how would we even know about abuse?
4
Research "organized stalking" or "gang stalking" and realize that there are tons of victims of unwarranted surveillance. Look past all the lizard people and V2K talk, that is misinformation.... but take the time to learn about this new gang stalking phenomenon and understand that it is a result of mass surveillance and so is the surge in public mass killings.
Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
Fox and friends should have an office in the west wing to directly advise Trump.
3
Good! We gotta remember the kind of advanced electronics the “bad guys” are using these days....
Welcome to the land of Big Brother. They are working against us, not for us.
2
" Those who give up privacy for security shall have neither " Ben Franklin. This Founding Father so often invoked by Conservatives would never tolerate this.
1
This Twitter fiasco and the televised immigration show both serve to prove that Trump doesn't know what he is talking about and, in fact, doesn't even know what he's saying.
2
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
I wish some current Congressperson would utter those immortal words of Benjamin Franklin's on the floor of the House, just to shame the cowards and corporate tools who now populate the place. Of course it would be an exercise in futility, as most of these people are beyond shame.
2
Even George Orwell couldn't have imagined the loss of privacy that has been institutionalized. The government (and corporations) can access computers and mobile devices, turning on microphones and cameras. Email is probably data mined around the globe. Facial recognition software is becoming the tool of tyrants.
America is enabling this descent in the name of security, which has become the new last resort of scoundrels.
2
I wonder how much information Mueller has gotten due to this FISA law.
If he has, what kind of impact is it making on his investigation?
1
Has a single good thing come out of this Congress and Administration. Incredible, just how blatantly hateful and evil this Government is.
3
What a contortion of the truth. The entire problem with this digital surveillance is that it is happening ***within the domestic USA to USA citizens in bulk data collection 24 hours a day.*** Your digital data and everyone else's is intensively searched by multiple processes and then stored. Because it is warrantless, the data can be "legally" collected in massive massive bulk.
Let me say it again -- There is nothing "foreign" about this data collection. The collected data is collected from all of us, all day, 365 days a year. In the EU, this is completely illegal and for obvious reasons. What a mess.
3
Recently released Congressional testimony by Fusion GPS executives suggests that much of the Steele dossier on Russian manipulation of Trump has indeed be corroborated, contrary to what the NYT writes here. This continues the disturbing pattern of Trump coddling that led to the fallacious (dishonest?) Oct 2016 NYT. article stating that there was no evidence of Russian influence on Trump. Democracy dies in darkness-for honest reporting on self styled King Donald, you go to the Washington Post.
9
So, Obama's "bugging" of Trump's phones would still be okay? Maybe during "executive time" he can bug his own staff's phones.
5
The Deep State just gets deeper.
4
Well, to be technical, it stays the same deepness.
4
If the president were smart, he would not sign this into law, since any dealings he had with foreign, ahem, entities would be fair game. Alas, president is not smart.
18
No surprise from Republicans and an administration turning this country into a dictatorship. Guess their love of all things Russian also means making the United States like the old Soviet Union.
8
People should read "The Gulag Archipeligo" to get a sense of the reality in this comment.
As long as they keep surveilling Trump and his family of miscreants, this could be good news.
18
The National Security Agency (NSA) is a national-level intelligence agency of the United States Department of Defense, The Department of Defense is an executive branch department of the federal government of the United States.
The DoD and the NSA report up to Trump. NSA is headed by Dan Coats, a republican, appointed by our dear leader.
So tell me again about your theory?
4
Three people -- one a Fox News analyst -- two tweets, two completely different positions, two hours in between tweets. THIS is making America great again? Thank goodness Trump's nanny had time to run to Capitol Hill to set things straight.
13
"'House votes on controversial FISA ACT today.' This is the act that may have been used, with the help of the discredited and phony Dossier, to so badly surveil and abuse the Trump Campaign by the previous administration and others?"
Is that a question, Donald, or a statement with the creative flair of a question mark at the end? Topped off with this insane follow-up:
"With that being said, I have personally directed the fix to the unmasking process since taking office and today’s vote is about foreign surveillance of foreign bad guys on foreign land. We need it! Get smart!"
This ship is piloted by a doddering, confused egomaniac in an ill-fitting captains hat, charging into a rising tempest as he spins the wheel aimlessly against a snapped rudder. Down here in the hold, the rest of us are wondering just how much longer we'll drift before a wave slaps us all broadside and scatters us into the sea.
19
Where are Henry Fonda and Jack Lemmon when we need them?
Another Trump reversal. Soon, if not now, the country will turn him off and ignore his tweets and insane rants. Who would ever have thought the President of the United States would become irrelevant.
94
You assume that the voters haven't been so dumbed down over the past 35 years that they are capable of making rational decisions. Churchill said that the greatest argument against democracy was a five-minute discussion with the average citizen. "Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few." -- George Bernard Shaw
Under Trump, we are just finishing the reverse transition started under Reagan and returning government to the corrupt few.
My advice is to learn a foreign language or two so you can be ready to abandon the Ship of State before it's stern sinks into the sea in a greasy smear of leaking oil (ironic, what?).
Nothing is more dangerous than a weak man in a powerful position.
67
Yes, indeed.
This is from that old movie: "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight"
6
The guy in the picture is the one who should be most concerned since his team has showed up regularly in the spying effort, not because they were the targets but because they were talking constantly to them.
How dopey was Flynn, texting from the Inaugural stage, so excited was he that about the imminent lifting of sanctions would enable his oil deal to go forward. Some fish are hard to catch and some just jump into the boat on their own.
Kushner must be the most concerned that his global financial web of crimes will eventually lead right back to the White House and him. In the book, "Fire and Fury", he is reported as alarmed because his father-in-law keeps joking that Jared can solve the problems of the Middle East because he knows all of the best criminals in Israel.
Trump may not leave an e-mail trail but he talks enough to keep a competent Justice Dept busy for years, if they only had an effective AG.
19
Until America truly looks at and honestly talks about the grim power and wasteful expense of our Intelligence apparatus and Military seriously, we'll be the nation we deserve to be: Not destroyed by enemies, but destroyed by the cost of those programs and policies that harm us as much or more than any foreign invader, brought to you by donation-craving and corrupted Republicans and Democrats who are fine with wasting money on more spies, more satellites, more drones, and more nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, roads, bridges, schools and other work that could actually help Americans in their daily lives go unfunded so that the Pentagon, the CIA, and the NSA can enjoy their shiny new toys and privileges.
I'm tired of the people I vote for agreeing to waste money on violating my civil liberties in the name of pursuing threats that quite frankly are rarely there in the first place. Yes, we need an intelligence complex, and yes we need a military, but wouldn't it be intriguing to offer them half the money they usually get -- which would still be a far greater portion of GDP than any other Civilized Nation pays -- spend the savings on infrastructure and education and thereby encourage them to focus upon the aspects of their work that really matters instead of hurling your and my tax dollars at problems that only exist in the fevered mind of the most paranoid to be exploited by politicians.
323
A government which fears its own citizens is one that citizens should fear more than any foreign power.
5
While agreeing with the gist of your thoughts, we do not need to cut the military budget by 50% in order to fund infrastructure. All we need to do is have true tax REFORM, not tax cuts. No more carried interest loopholes for multi-billionaires, no more Cayman Islands tax havens for the filthy rich. No more dynasty trusts.
Of course, the best way would be to dispense with the entire income tax red herring. Impose a global wealth tax. We could easily fund everything you noted and still waste billions on a bloated military. There is plenty of money. It is just far too concentrated in far too few grubby hands.
2
We do in fact need to cut the military and intelligence budget, as they're both colossal swamps of waste and mis-spent money. (How can anyone defend, as you do, our 'bloated" -- your words -- military budget?) The fact we live in a nation that lets oligarchs hide money in Switzerland or the Caymans while raiding 7-11s for "illegal" labor is p[art of the same sickness, but first and foremost, we need to take money from plains that don't work and spies who can't spy and bombs designed solely to destroy all life on earth and spend it on real concerns here in America.
1
I'd love to see the House vote record on this bill.
8
I have no problem, with this law. Technology continues to boom exponentially in terms of sophistication and scope. Indeed, it appears that Russia was able to influence (or throw) democratic elections using e-technology, I don't want the feds to have to fight cyber-crime with telephones and polaroid cameras. Give them the e-tools they need. Congress can limit the scope of what the data can be used for.
1
How this could stand careful, thoughtful, Constitutionally guided analysis in court is hard to follow.
To analyze everything, without need, is indeed unreasonable search.
The get-out-of-jail-free card that the NSA plays all the time, is that the specific qeuestion about how many times has this activity actually yielded the intended results of treasonist or country-threatening activity is, of course, privileged information that they aren't willing to share. In other words, asking if it is effective, which is a realistic approach, is deflected since they don't want to loose the law allowing this to occur.
2
Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
At least resident Trump and his administration will finally be listening to Americans.
7
Yep. By listening to your phone calls and reading your e-mail Trump and his police state will indeed be listening. Brand New Congress, PLEASE.
1
NSA is a failure based on the massive successful cyber attacks on US from the Russian's attacking US election system to bank and industrial systems. NSA has prevented none of it. NSA has not even been able to find out who did it after it has been discovered...and not by NSA.
That this failed agency is allowed to spy on American's for political purposes is part of the GOP attack on US democracy. Voter suppression. Gerrymandering. Electoral college, $1 = 1 vote, corporations as "people" and of course the spying.
The only plus in US citizens and US democracy's favor is that the NSA is so inept, as we see it cannot protect US from cyberattacks, that it will likely not be able to pass on any kind of politically valuable information to the GOP before it is reigned in when Democrats take over Congress in 2019.
1
Trump changing his mind on “the bad guys on foreign lands?”
Just one more example he does not have a clue which end is up. Is Congress dismissing themselves from him? We could hope.
43
So early this morning Trump was against the act, then later her was for the act. Republicans, are you sure you want this guy on your side?
86
Yes, since he serves their purposes just fine.
Slouching toward the Gulag...
104
Wake up Bin Laden won. We are no longer have any freedoms anymore. We gave away everything for a sense of security.
157
Actually, we've given away privacy in exchange for convenience: credit cards, cell phones, online shopping, EZPass for tolls. All of these are means to collect data on us. In some places, only credit cards are accepted, like when you order a drink on an airplane. In some places, there are no more toll booths even if you want to pay in cash; they take a photo of your license and mail you a bill.
"John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff, was spotted in a House cloakroom talking to members before the vote in a last-minute lobbying push."
He is our shadow president, and the reason for so many of the seemingly contradictory Trump outbursts.
95
Surreptitious governing by the military.
7
Fox News is the de facto presidential brain trust.
158
We need to sweep the Republican party out of Congress for a generation. Their authoritarian tendencies are unconstitutional and trample our rights and freedoms as citizens. Repugnant.
212
Well Dems aided that effort.. wouldn't have passed without their votes.
1
The Democrats are just as bad. Get real!
1
Do our lawmakers not know the constitution or believe in our civil rights? Again our leaders don't care about either.
31
Yet another harm to freedom from Big Brother surveillance of citizens, with a sop to the Useful Idiot, er, Very Stable Genius. The GOP are traitors.
25
I honestly believe the NSA is not helping us, but rather harming us by instilling various backdoors on our apps and programs that will spill ink on our faces when our adversaries find out about these vulnerabilities. If anything, the NSA should be further restrained than encouraged
68
Ya think? Republicans just has a good laugh.
1
Sorry, conspiracists, but we need this program more than ever to keep track of international criminals and money launderers like Paul Manafort, Roger Stone or Mike Flynn. Trump has never provided any proof that there was illegal surveillance of his campaign, but if there was, it's much more likely to have been the Russians, not Obama.
36
Nonsense.
This is a constitutional issue and obvious violation of the 4th amendment. How can you justify, without a warrant, the broad collection of information of our information?
Its ridiculous to allow yourself to be caught up in the hot story of the moment and allow your lawmakers to make laws that will impact citizens way past the hot new story of the moment.
I'm sure this is not the only way to catch money launderers and the NSA did not always need this power.
I rather Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, or Mike Flynn be free men than give up my basic rights to privacy and have a government that oversteps it bounds.
1
What have you got against justifying and obtaining warrants before raiding personal privacy?
2
Seriously? You think they would not do the "president's" bidding??
1
It is interesting that Trump doesn't seem care that the FISA Act may be unconstitutionally unreasonable search or that it interferes with the privacy of citizens or even how his position is contrary to others in his party, he only cares about himself. Unfit to lead.
75
If he truly cared about himself, he’d realize he comes under FISA too!
Please surveil our top national security risk!
1
In the face of a mucky-mouse set of contradictory tweets form our commander in chief, it appears the only true protector of our rights is our own unbending assertion of them.
I write charged political comments all the time; here, in emails, and on protest signs. We let our fear after 9/11 capsize the very rights which really keep our country safe. Sometimes I pause at the keyboard, knowing that if Trump truly had his way, I and millions of others would be punished. But then I type my conscience anyway, because speaking up for justice and the common good is more important now than at any point in my lifetime.
Articles like this point to a chilling effect on free speech and true freedom.
Speak your mind. Speak it clearly and fearlessly, in any forum.
The more who do without reservation, the safer the rest of us will be.
199
I defy someone to explain to me how this remains the land of the free.
We literally live in an Orwellian world of surveillance. We have elected officials disparaging the free press. Search and seizure protections seem to only grow more lax as time goes on. I thought we read about this stuff in dystopian fiction novels to prevent these things from happening?
357
disparaging the press (and the press disparaging the president) is actually a mark of a free society... if we didn't live in a free society the press and the president would be working in lock step in total harmony with the press as nothing more than a PR arm of the party. If anything you should be afraid of what happens next when there is a Democratic President supported by the mainstream press armed with police state surveillance power to take down political enemies. That is the world Orwell described.
Hey, a college dropout with the initials MZ decreed--apparently without any understanding of the political and philosophical architecture that made privacy a bedrock of freedom and democracy--that privacy was dead.
So we're all just supposed to get over it.
1
Your hyperbole is positively Trumpian. When you look at it rationally, most Americans have voluntarily given up their privacy by using Facebook and all the other personal data gathering operations masquerading as social media. In the meantime, you're still free to exercise all the same freedoms you've enjoyed as an American over your lifetime. And that includes unplugging from anything and everything that has the potential to be surveilled.
1
"Mr. Trump, who is known to watch Fox News while he is tweeting, posted his tweet shortly after a Fox News legal analyst appealed directly to the president during a Thursday morning segment about the coming House vote. The analyst, Andrew Napolitano, turned to television cameras and said, “Mr. President, this is not the way to go.”"
WHAT?! The breaking of the 4th wall is the latest plot twist in this awful administration.
220
Yes, perhaps they could make a film about this administration... call it "The Disaster Artist".
2
The breaking of the 4th Amendment, too.
Privacy Protection for the President is now defunct!!! At least under FISA!
I am sorry for the rest of us. But I sure hope that FISA surveils Trump every day in every way!
20
Honestly. What a fool has been installed as president.
217
Yes, although some would use the noun, 'tool.'
6
We are the fools letting him remain there.
5