I no longer care if Trump is nuts. "Normal" is a social construct. There are American voters who not only think he is "normal"—to their mind it's the rest of us who are nuts. I'm not certain we can ever rise to the point where there is a common ground for us to work from on this issue.
When we were in school, we were (or should have been) taught that in order to create a winnable argument, it is necessary to begin at a point that everyone can agree on. Given that knowledge, and given that we have become a dangerously divided nation, I t's probably best to try to find an issue that we can all agree on and work our way up from there. We have to find a simple, basic concept that the vast majority of us can agree on:
• we do not want Earth to become a lifeless planet
• we do not want a nuclear holocaust
• we want this planet to continue to be able to support life
• clean air is essential to maintain life
• clean water is essential to maintain human life
• world peace—or at least—not at war is essential for human well-being
Only when we find that ver basic place of agreement can we start to work on a solution. We can leave Trump out of the equation until we discover what we all want. And we are going to have to do it before our next election, because if we don’t learn from our errors and go on to continue to elect dysfunctional leaders, we're pretty much toast.
24
tomorrow's editorial "Is Mr Trump a racist?"
7
It is likely that like his father and mother, Trump suffers from a genetically based Alzheimer's condition. This is less of mental illness than it is a biological one. Tests can confirm if Trump carries the ApoE mutation. Further Alzheimer's can be detected with brain scans.
I think Trump does not have Alzheimer's but instead the 2nd most common dementia illness Lewy Body Dementia (the same as disease that Robin Williams had). Unlike Alzheimer's, this dementia waxes and wanes, bad sometimes but then disappearing. Other symptoms include Capgras Syndrome (the delusion that people have been replaced by impostors or in Trump's case that events Trump are well documented to have participated in are fake), along with sleep disorders and paranoia ("Obama tapped my phone" for example).
The big problem is that Lewy Body is difficult to detect in living humans. Only after an autopsy can the black balls of goo in brain tissue be identified in most cases (as was the case for Robin Williams). And further Lewy Body dementia has no treatment(s) (unlike Alzheimer's).
5
Yup, he's nuts. No medical degree necessary.
14
Please just rerun this article closer to Election Day so everyone is reminded what to do.
14
Nuts would be an improvement for Mr Trump.
12
ok. so you can't do he's crazy. you can't do this by a vote since your democracy allows presidents to be voted in on 30% of the voting population. 40% of your population believes in clear fairy tales. Wadayoudo?
8
Trump is a textbook sociopath. He demonstrates this is the most obvious ways on a daily basis. You don't need to be a psychiatrist to understand this. Anyone who's taken a entry level abnormal pysch class or read anything on the subject can see it clearly.
He is also a complete ignoramus. Again, one need not be a mental health professional to see what is on display every day.
If it walks like a duck....
13
If the definition of nuts is being incredibly stupid, yes he is nuts.
5
In the simplest of terms ......... Yes , he is !!
4
"There's always 2020"? On what evidence do you base that statement? You're talking about political tactics when what we're facing is an existential threat to American lives, and the American way of life. When the so-called "Leader of the Free World," a man with the authority to inflict unfathomable destruction (nuclear and otherwise), behaves as widly as this one does, we can hardly afford that kind of complacency. 2020? I'm reminded of the tagline for "Texas Chainsaw Massacre: "Who will be left and what will be left of them?"
So, as this editorial says, whether the president is ill or not is an irrelevant question. The president's behavior has persuaded enough of us that he can't handle the responsibilities of the office. Look at his approval ratings. Given what we've all witnessed, we can't afford to idly stand by while he and his tantrums inflict their reckless damage.
13
Good timing.
1
I don't know if he's crazy, but he sure is stupid.
12
Will it take Trump pushing the button, or getting under the North Korean president enough for him to launch an ICBM to qualify him as nuts? Anything that happens is on the Republicans in Congress.
13
Yes, Trump is nuts.
He has severe mental disorders and it seems the onset of dementia on top of his mental incompetence.
He needs to be removed from office immediately even if lapdog Pence takes over.
Pence is not as crazy as Trump and he doesn't seem to have dementia. That's the nicest thing I can say about sycophant Pence.
9
If he's not nuts, he does a good imitation of someone who is.
10
It is President Trump.
2
Dear NYT,
Headlines such as "Is Mr. Trump Nuts?" are inflammatory, sensational, and frankly no better than Breitbart headlines about whether Obama is really a US Citizen. I'm always hoping the New York Times will take the high road and provide an objective, even-keeled point of view. Articles like this - even when substantiated with data and science - polarize this country even more. While you may be fanning the flames of debate, feeding liberal outrage, and earning readership, you're not helping to bring this country together.
What we need now is to find common ground and to reestablish some credibility in truthful reporting. Even though this is in the Op-Ed pages, you lower the credibility of the rest of your reporting when you mix sensationalism in like this.
6
One House Democrat, still in office, years ago, seriously questioned military experts on whether excess troops could cause Guam to ‘tilt’ or ‘sink’. Another asked for pictures by astronauts on Mars. And then there’s Nancy Pelosi, who is almost incoherent at times , including today, when she disparaged even the #2 House Democrat. But the Times wastes more ink on yet another reason it doesn’t like Trump in office; he’s crazy?? Great sell.
3
Come on liberals, a few thousand of you move to Wyoming, a few thousand of you move to North Dakota, few thousand to Montana. Vote there. That's enough to decide 6 senate seats. If you really care, get going.
7
Not nuts, just ignorant and totally immoral.
5
The 25th amendment requires the president to be "unable" to fulfull the duties of office. As Jay Berman recently said, Trump is unfit, but not unable. 2018 criminal proceedings or 2019 impeachment (place your bets) will be the mechanism that eventually drops the blade.
2
Surely the point is that the American 'democratic system' is flawed. In particular the power given to the President, intended to give force and decisiveness, has proved to be excessive. Equally the electoral system, stipulating that elections can only take place every four years, is proving in this instance to be too rigid and a detriment to good governance. In the countries of Europe, the UK and Australia Mr Trump would run the real risk of being removed either by his own party or by the electorate. Of course as we know these other countries have experienced political instability from time to time. The more rigid American system was intended to avoid instability and to deliver strong government. Then you have the Chinese system which admittedly would not suit Western countries. Its virtue lies in the fact that candidates are career politicians who learn over many years the art of doing politics and have to prove their level of competence and indeed mental stability as they rise up the ranks of the party. But a one-party system is anathema to Western conceptions of democracy.
None of these systems is perfect, each has its pitfalls, but I think the American system which can bestow immense power on a celebrity with no proven experience or competence to govern needs revisiting.
5
The more pressing question is whether there is an ideology that produces what looks like psychopathic behavior.
I think that there is, and it is located on the right of the political spectrum. This was recognized by reformers a century ago when states started putting limits on what unrestrained markets could produce, misery and stress for the masses and wealth for the few.
5
The editorial writer concluded, "The best solution is the simplest: Vote, and organize others to register and to vote. If you believe Donald Trump represents a danger to the country and the world, you can take action to rein in his power. In November, you can help elect members of Congress who will fight Mr. Trump’s most dangerous behaviors. If that fails, there’s always 2020."
If that fails, there may be no 2020.
6
Why yes, yes he is.
1
The only way we will see the end of Trump before 2020 is if he seen publicly to act such a completely irrational way - say twice as bad as he is now - that even a few Republicans will find the honour and courage to denounce him. Then Trumps enablers could declare that the unending media criticism of him has made it impossible for the otherwise stable genius to go on as President. Meanwhile, his lawyers will have worked out a deal equivalent to a lifetime pardon for everything he has done. Trump will leave, Pence will come in and replace one set of far right loonies with another. Then we start all over again.
2
Yes it is important that we notice and say out loud that Trump is obviously nuts. And stupid. And vulgar. And incompetent in every sense of the world. Fill up his personnel file with the thousands of pieces of evidence that he is mentally disabled, and it may make invoking the 25th Amendment that much easier.
2
The 2nd amendment's intention has been perverted to suit gun fanatics - obviously not it's original intention. Why should it matter if the 25th amendment's intent wasn't to subject sitting Presidents to a mental competency standard?
1
This is one of those times when I have to commend the Editorial Board for the tone of the article and the exhortation to vote and organize, the only sane and non-violent way to address the peril your nation is in.
6
I no longer care. He won. Let him run roughshod all over this nation and people. We deserve this government. We have been poor participants in democracy for many decades and frankly, Trump is the just reward for our national lack of motivation.
4
But the whole Republican Party is insane and disconnected from reality. They just hide it better with their usual excuses and propaganda, than the agressive, ego driven Trump who can't control himself.
GOP rationalizations follow from their basic premises which are poisonous to any democracy----the favoring of elite power, profit and privilege over the basic rights and needs of the citizen majority. This is the underlying assumption of all the laws the GOP proposes and passes---and they now dominate the 3 branches of the US govt.
But this nullifies the whole purpose of having universal voting so that elected officials will work for our interests.
This is the logical outcome of a big money sponsored election system, which our high court calls 'free speech' per 1st amendment. Where is the NY Times editorial board on this basic flaw? It compromises both parties.
If the Times doesn't grapple with this cause/effect, then it's just play acting moral outrage at Trump, with no realistic solutions. We NYT readers and US voters deserve better from our media as well as our officials.
3
It's not beside the point if our president is seriously mentally ill or has dementia. It's a very serious matter and it has to be dealt with. Someone in our government who "works" with him has to decide what to do. They can't just let it go. There won't be any 25th amendment activated, but they could impeach him. I can't imagine what they are waiting for him to do in order to start that process. He is clearly unfit for the presidency and we are reminded of that every day.
2
" It would be a good idea if presidential candidates voluntarily submitted to a mental health evaluation". Voluntarily? A physical for a military recruit is mandatory. Why should it be any different for a Commander in Chief? Who poses the greater danger?
4
Disappointed in the intellectual caliber of this editorial for at least two reasons:
(1) How could a sit-down evaluation session or two with Trump possibly provide nearly as much data to base a diagnosis on as the data we have from Trump's public statements, reactions, and tweets?
(2) Granted that by far the most likely means of getting Trump out of office is voting him out in 2020, why is it wrong for highly qualified psychiatrists and psychologists to chime in on the dangers a Trump presidency represents? Despite what the editorials authors say, this is not clear to everyone. Truth becomes more widely accepted the more often it is stated, particularly by persuasive experts.
3
Can't argue with getting out the vote BUT ... our votes are greatly compromised at the Congressional level by gerrymandering, which, despite the recent ruling in North Carolina, will still be in effect in most districts this coming Fall and likely even in 2020. The GOP made sure to get a vise-like grip on that in 2010. And at the state level, the anachronistic Electoral College may well render your vote for President meaningless unless, of course, you simply pitch-in with the apparent majority in your state, quite possibly leaving your real preference behind. And then there is that favorite of Southern red states, but found nationwide -- the permanent disenfranchisement of citizens, mostly minorities, convicted of felony crimes which can include minor drug violations and DUIs, and even failure to pay court fees and fines, in some jurisdictions. Finally, consider our fragmented system of voting in which the wait time to vote, the number of voting machines available, the number of day(s) over which you can vote, whether or not you can vote by mail, vary widely from state to state, precinct to precinct. In a democracy, we are led to believe that our vote is sacrosanct but, sadly, actual experience says otherwise.
6
I agree that it is behavior that matters, not diagnosis. I have friends with diagnoses that are associated with erratic behavior who have worked hard to successfully manage their symptoms. I would sleep easier if they held President Trump’s position in his place (although I wouldn’t wish the stress of being president on a friend).
That said, I do worry at the prospect of him having a degenerative disorder like Alzheimers. The thought of watching him get worse but being able to do nothing is terrifying.
3
Why are Liberal Democrats opposed to the opinions of others, yet preach their believe in a pluralistic society? Why do Liberal Democrats choose physical confrontation vs. peaceful protest? Why do Liberal Democrats believe they are the only group with the right to lead this nation? Perhaps these are the more relevant questions to ask.
"They should not fire the F.B.I. director to derail an investigation into their own campaign’s possible collusion with a foreign government..." Leaves out, as many have increasingly been doing when discussing the investigation: Obstruction of Justice! This one should be easy to prove with evidence we've all seen!
3
Yes, Trump is nuts. The MAGA nut company just started selling "Trump's Nuts"in a can to capitalize on his "fame".
2
Trump isn't nuts, but he is extremely neurotic. Obviously he had a terrible childhood; one which appears based on a rejecting father who prized everyone in his life on their ability to "win" and a mother who was unable to instill any warmth or empathy in her him. Ever hear him talk about his mother? Its like she never existed, and for Trump, that may be true.
Trump doesn't care what happens in this country as long as he has his tax cut. I almost cannot imagine him running for reelection in 2020. The same lies that "Fox and Friends" put out daily, that he is loved by all, is simply not true, but may encourage Trump to try again for the Presidency. For once, those twits sitting on that stupid couch, may kill their golden goose. Trump can spend his days at rallies where he is fawned upon, but in 2020, the reality may be much different.
Currently, our biggest worry should be the fact that his "keepers" may decide to leave the White House, and there appears to be no one with real sense willing to sign on to run this zoo if they leave.
1
Was Bill Clinton a sex addict? I ask this question because having a sex act performed in the Oval Office while on the telephone might be perceived by some people as crazy, others might say that he was a sex addict, and others defending him, noting simply he enjoyed the benefits that a young aide was doing for him. Never mind he was married and the president. The point being that every comment about any president is laced with political bias.
2
Probably. Nutty people do crazy things, like frighten a nation and find pleasure while doing so. They also hire careless, nutty people who also do crazy things like lie for him after he lies to us. Are we living in a democracy anymore? Gosh, we'd better find someone who can make America great again!
1
Highly likely that there will be three more years. Maybe...maybe...get some control in 2018, but the damage will continue to be done through executive orders. This will not end well. Deservedly.
6
Trump is not nuts. He is just the average 71 year old white male whose world view is shared by many in his generation. He is one of them so they voted for him. I would even go further and argue that many middle-aged men (of all ethnicities) tend to be opinionated and are incapable of change. They have very different views about women, people who are different, other religions etc. They have lots of grievances and an exaggerated sense of their own accomplishments and worth. I know lots of Trumps. Many are not even white.
6
The Times, as well as the US media generally, accords to Mr Trump the accolade Leader of the Free World. I don't recall that I voted on this matter or that any other non-US citizen was extended the right to do so. My contention is that the use of such language is not only silly and demeaning but makes the US looks puffed up, which I suppose was its original purpose. If you want your country to be laughed at, especially since the LotFW has defacto allotted this status to the geographically-challenged Mr Trump, then keep it up. But if you don't, and want to be taken seriously by a non-domestic audience, then please drop it.
8
Trump's problems with the truth may be neurological. From an archived article in the Times, I found this psychiatrist's take on pathological liars:
"Bryan King, a psychiatrist at the U.C.L.A. School of Medicine... wrote on pathological lying in the American Journal of Psychiatry with Charles Ford, a psychiatrist at the University of Arkansas Medical School, and Marc Hollender, a psychiatrist at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine.
''Pathological liars seem utterly sincere about their lies, but if confronted with facts to the contrary, will often just as sincerely reverse their story,'' Dr. King said. ''Their stories have a believable consistency, but they just do not seem able to monitor whether they are telling the truth or not.''
"Research suggests that this most extreme form of lying is associated with a specific neurological pattern: a minor memory deficit combined with impairment in the frontal lobes, which critically evaluate information, Dr. King said. In such cases, the person suffers from the inability to assess the accuracy of what he says, and so can tell lies as though they were true."
Sound familiar?
7
What's particularly ironic about the question is that I'm quite sure that compared to Trump's populist messages during the campaign, including not touching the social safety net, getting rid of carried interest loopholes, etc., the Republicans now find his agreement with their decidedly plutocratic and anachronistic policies signs that he is the opposite of crazy and simply one of them. No wonder even his former critics in the party are busy trying to keep him propped up like an agreeable sandwich board with a signing hand, no matter how embarrassing or unethical his behavior.
It's a cliche to say that crazy people rarely know they're crazy, so there is that, but the 25th Amendment is a very tall reach, requiring the cabinet to step up. Given that very few of them would be allowed anywhere near any other administration, even Republican, fat chance on that, and for the aforementioned reasons, you can forget about 2/3 of both houses of Congress, one of which has some members who if not in Congress would qualify for the same designation, "crazy".
Consequently, yes, the only possible way to reign this president in regardless of his official diagnosis is to vote for people who will check his authoritarian tendencies, which again, regardless of his mental state, make his a terrible choice for the highest office in the land.
5
There was a case in Tunisia, when Habib Bourgiba was removed, after it became apparent that he was mentally incompetent. Bourgiba had appointed a new chief delegate to the United Nations, but had soon forgotten that appointment and named another man to the post. One doesn’t need to be a psychiatrist to tell that Bourguiba was suffering from dementia. There are clear cases of illness beyond normal temporary amnesia etc.
Also, it is common to see differing diagnoses for a “patient” among psychiatrists. If you go to a psychiatrist, he or she will probably find a diagnosis for you no matter how “normal” you think you are.
I think Trump simply exhibits evil and dangerous behavior. Is that mental illness? I think so but many may not agree. What is most dangerous is when we entrust such individuals with the possibility of using nuclear weapons. By making him president, we have potentially given Trump such power. I believe there is a systemic problem here.
5
Trump is remarkably like Roseanne Barr's TV show way back in the '80's.
There's no surprises here. Watch the clock, it has to run out if we're still alive.
2018? Who knows at this point. At it's very best, it's a stalemate and at worst, more of the same.
Stalemate appeals to me at this point.
Thank you NYT for putting a realistic spin on this story. The bottom line is next November liberals, moderates, sane people of all races and sexes must get out and vote! It's not too late to save our democracy and our world!
4
At last a sane and correct assessment of the ‘Trump problem’.
However, the irony of unhinged liberals claiming Trump unfit for office is lost on no one. With their endless hysterical proclamations of ‘Impeach 45!’, some are just as nutty as Trump (think Maxine Waters).
And it’s obvious that Nancy Pelosi is a basket case and clearly has exhibited repeated signs of cognitive impairment (she has called Trump ‘President Bush’ dozens of times).
1
"There's always 2020."
This, of course, assumes we're all still here in 2020. As long as he is president, we all have reason to wonder if we will be.
3
I'm tired of the all the failings of our rigged political system being laid at the feet of the American voter.
Vote! Vote! Vote! Well, we did that. And Hillary Clinton won by close to 3 million votes. That's a significant margin. And Trump got the job anyway.
Trump is in office because of our corrupt political system.
Because of the electoral college system, which is rotten to the core. From it's inception it was designed to favor certain voters over others. How can you call that democracy?
Then there's the gerrymandering of districts. How can we allow politicians to choose their own voters and call it democracy?
Our elected representatives are for sale to the highest bidder. They flagrantly pass policies harmful to our citizens that favor their well-monied backers. This is business as usual. How can this type of flagrant corruption go on without consequences and still be called democracy?
We've become a banana republic, rotten to its core. The first step to fixing any problem is admitting that we have one. Our political system is corrupt. We do not live in a functioning democracy. How do we recreate one given the current state of affairs?
13
Don't moan, organize. Don't bemoan, organize. Vote the enablers of trump out of office ASAP.
2
I think this is a reasonable and responsible assessment of where we are today with Trump.
Good job.
I’m still banking on the outcome of the Mueller probe, fool that I am. We probably won’t get rid of Trump before the next election, but at least the GOP will be faced with evidence that they supported a team of gangsters and crooks. I have a photo of Bob Mueller as my screensaver, and I still hope that the rule of law will work. Even on Trump.
44
All of which boils down to the following: crazy is as crazy does. Crazy doesn't brag about the nuclear button, he pushes it.
Delusional, yes. The definition of stable genius and like really smart depends upon how you define the words: stable, genius, really, and smart.
Unfortunately Trump is not crazy, or at least not any crazier than millions of Americans walking around without formal paper on them. He is certainly narcissistic, volatile and changeable, self absorbed, and has a very low attention span. He acts like a child who was denied his parents' love.
He is the antithesis of what I want in a president. But he is probably not crazy.
So the best I can hope for is that they continue to feed this man Big Macs. (I'm told it is one of the better ways to go.)
3
A term we don't hear much used these days is "crazy like a fox" meaning that the "crazy" acts are only a ploy to distract the fox's enemies from the fox's real objective. Some might think this could apply to Trump's behavior. However, I would submit that, sometimes, the "crazy" fox is just plain rabid.
1
Something rarely mentioned is that Trump could just up and walk out of the presidency - resign. Yes, also an unlikely happening, but it is certainly one of the easiest options. I would love to hear Trump say, "I will never resign from the presidency". Then it would be an 80% probability that that s exactly what he will do.
3
It would also be helpful if the Times and other media paid as much attention and gave as much press to the disastrous policies his administration is perpetrating while we're all distracted by the constant tweet and latest crazy behavior flogging. Where, for instance, is the coverage of Secretary Zinke's "reorganization" of the National Park Service that is going to require tens of thousands of employees to relocate or quit, that he's inserted into the budget negotiations? If you would focus on exposing real policies and clearly explaining how they are going to affect real people, and leave the outrage and psychobabble alone, we would have a much better chance of voting the Republican Congresspeople who are enabling the dismantling of our cherished institutions and destruction of our safety net out of office. I implore you - focus on what matters!
5
If Donald Trump suffers from a diagnosable mental illness, that may,in fact, not disqualify him from serving as president; depends on the diagnosis. If he is suffering from progressive dementia, he certainly should not complete his term, as he becomes increasingly impaired. These scenarios involve different imperatives for the 25th amendment.
Friends....2020 is too late. Too much damage will have been done. We need significant enough wins this year to impeach.
5
Your best line:
"...Republicans are behaving less like members of a coequal branch with oversight power [and more] like co-conspirators of a man they know is unfit to govern..."
And your best advice: "VOTE"
2
Thomas Eagleton was withrawn as the Democratic Vice Presidential nominee in 1972 after it was learned that in the previous decade he had been treated for depression and undergone electroshock treatment.
"This was the height of the Cold War," [former Senator Gary] Hart said. "The key here wasn't how do we feel about mental illness or therapy or anything like that. The key was — finger on the button."
So tomorrow is the big day when Precious Leader is scheduled for a medical exam. No doubt the seagulls will flock overhead to protect the Great Leader and Teacher from the sun's UV rays.
However, if he's ever been diagnosed with or treated for Obsessive Compulse Disorder, depression, or other conditions, I think we have a right to know. If the man with the word's biggest nuclear button drinks 12 cans of soda per day as reported, he's sure to at least have a urological problem. Unless they cover everything up to spare him embarrassment.
January 11, 2018
This must be one of the top journalistic articles in American history in terms of the impact on the question of mental stability of the President - Donald Trump.
How we as a nation determine the behavior of the our fellow citizen and importantly in the context of the effective impact to our direct well being and in this executive position the actions or in actions that occur to direct events - effecting our own judgment as to how we expect to measure the what is appropriately expectations that are for the well being of all imports of American collective / personal tax paying integrated rational actions in words and deeds both legislatively and then of course interpersonal as much is externalized for public inspection - albeit conscious or unconscious...
In a best case scenario Mr. Trump should give best efforts to disclose to his mental evaluations whether he is concern about bizarre annoyances in dreams, or night terrors and as well as any compulsive behavior that would interfere with his giving his responsible behavior to his service in his oath to office and then professional evaluation should be made public for what is good for a great Trump but be effectively normalized as warranted for the best in all ways daily....
1
I thought the electoral college was supposed to play the role of the 25th amendment before a new President would be officially selected. Sadly, the Electors didn't feel that way in December 2016.
what is the point of this article? sing along with leonard cohen: "everybody knows the captain lied"
a story like this only reconfirms trumps is king.
so what can we do about this?
everybody knows that's how it goes...
"... in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." must our nobel prize winners Steinbeck and Krugman do all the talking?
Where are the democrats? Sitting idly by just as they did when Obama's plan for America was obstructed and dismembered- as they did when the majority leader refused to bring Garland to the floor- as they did when they pilloried Hillary with nonsense--- where are the counter tweets? -- wake up congressional democrats , you have nothing to lose but your 15% approval rating.
1
We can't wait till 2020. We can't even wait till next November. It's far too dangerous. One day we may look back upon our failure to remove him as soon as we recognized the extent of that danger - i.e., NOW.
We'll wonder why we didn't mobilize and search for avenues - make new ones, if we have to - to remove from office this man who would sacrifice anything for the capricious demands of his ego.
Which is the nature of "evil." It's time we called it that.
1
To the people who are know all bent out of shape with the notion that Trump is nuts, I have only one thing to say:
"Where were you while this unfolded, and made Trump inevitable?"
Where were you when AM radio and churches galvanized white supremacist nationalist tribes since Reagan? Do you think we have half of Americans hating the other half of Americans as a coincidence?
Where were you when Trump riled up the birthers? While christian evangelists produced their own little Talibanic sensibility all over the south? While republicans turned into the American christian taliban? All these things have been brewing for 30 years since I have been paying attention. Why is black turnout to vote about the same as it was 30 years ago? Did you not raise a generation of Millennials who are too engrossed in self-worship to care enough to vote, unless some avuncular candidate offers them everything for free?
Oh yeah, you and I were chortling, thinking we are better than everyone else, that reasoned, cerebral argument would win. We assumed that everyone was just like us (wrong), and that everyone saw reason (wrong), and that women, working class, and minorities would vote in their self-interest (super wrong).
Trump may be nuts. But we too are too far gone. How far gone? Susan Sarandon voted for a third party candidate. That is how far gone.
Kalidan
1
I can't wait to vote this November. It's really all I can do. I am just a 65-year-old retired lady. I am not a billionaire, and I have no power. Weak though it may be and even though districts are gerrymandered and voter suppression is the name of the game, I'll still vote as long as they let me. It's the only tiny say-so I can have. So, I'll mark my ballot and mail it in and hope it gets opened and counted. I'm an American, it's my right and duty, and if it's one more vote that could limit what that nitwit in the White House can do, then I'll do it.
3
Vote in November?
Wrong!
Start by voting in primaries. Skipping primaries is how end up with our Trumps
1
I believe every human being is mentally ill. It's just a matter where you are on the sliding scale. Out of 10. 10 being very mentally ill Trump is about 8.5. A conservative estimate.
1
As my mother, who lived through the Great Depression, would’ve said, that man, “is a piece of work.”
1
It's not about his mental state. It's about his criminal, lawless mind and behavior. This man, plain & simple, is a tyrant and behaves like one.
"Madness in great ones must not unwatched go"--Hamlet
1
Most people never encounter a person with severe Narcissistic Personality Disorder leaving them unprepared to identify or deal with someone with NPD. People with NPD are psychopaths with the ability to blend into society; plus they work very hard at building a loyal support group which gives them the appearance of acceptance and normality. Narcissists can behave outwardly sane while actually being far from it.
Narcissists are very dangerous for two reasons:
1.) They always put themselves first---they have no empathy, no conscience, and no ability or motivation to care about other people. You are either useful to a narcissist or become an enemy to be crushed and obliterated (Obama).
2.) They are often incapable of ascertaining factual reality or of distinguishing between reality and their delusions (the size of Trump's inaugural audience).
Even if you wouldn't categorize Trump as mentally ill, having NPD should preclude him from holding a government office where everyone's safety and wellbeing depends on someone who can realistically evaluate facts unclouded by egotistical delusions or fantasy and has the capacity to care about the people he governs. Every Presidential candidate should be required to be screened for this dangerous mental disorder.
2
Nurturing democracy is difficult...destroying it is easy! Look around America...
2
Trump is a nut job, however defined, via intellectualized explanation or common sense layman's conception. It is more of an American problem than for the rest of the world, unless he starts a war. The rest of the world could enjoy and laugh whenever it does not impact them directly, and it is particularly good for Russia and China that Trump is taking America down.
If America and Americans are willing to tolerate such a failing actor and joke as POTUS, and not do their utmost to get rid of him, then it is too bad for their collective. The world sheds a tear for Uncle Sam and moves on, in amusement.
To the extent that President Trump is crazy, I feel sorry for him, because mental illness is deeply painful.
Psychopaths are people that feel no empathy for others. They don't feel the pain of others, and they don't feel the love of others. Psychopaths do not need to be punished, because their state of mind is more punishment then you can inflict on them. They have holes in their beings they can't fill.
Most psychopaths are not serial killers, but most serial killers are psychopaths. Most psychopaths are not billionaires, But research suggests that most billionaires are psychopaths. And this makes sense because no one is a billion dollars worth of productive, so you cannot amass a billion dollars without taking productivity from thousands of people who actually did the work, by manipulating markets and governments. Smith called them rent seekers. In fact just as you might not want to give an alcoholic money to spend on booze, it might be the best thing for billionaires if we taxed back some of their money.
I don't know if Trump is a psychopath, but the only empathy I see in him is the ability to manipulate white supremacists and insult or fawn over pretty dictators.
But yes it is the actual words and policies and divisive propaganda campaigns that we have to attack, not his mental state. I do not judge people by their labels but by their actions, including their words.
The sum total of everything Trump says and does is that he has no respect for the constitution.
2
It takes a New Yorker to tell his truth about another New Yorker.
"The best solution is the simplest: Vote, and organize others to register and to vote."
Correct. And it is crucial that the YOUNG vote. Their participation rates are abysmal and they dislike Trump more than any other group. If they show up in November, this can get fixed.
35
This is cop-out, NYTimes. What you're basically saying is a person who is utterly unfit, intellectually, morally, experience-wise, who obviously has no clear idea what he is doing, who almost always says and does the most vicious things, and constantly acts in infantile, asinine ways, who acts like an unhinged lunatic, taking such steps as baiting nuclear war, and who is quite possibly putting Americans in mortal danger:
NO! We do not have to sit around and wait for Trump to be voted out. He is a danger to Americans here and abroad and is an existential threat to our democratic republic. It is that serious. Trump's threat cannot be handled by a normally functioning system where bad politicians are voted out of office. We do not have anything resembling a normally functioning system at this point.
Your argument is like saying if I see a car heading straight for me, and it suddenly massively accelerates just before the red light, and I can see the wild glint in the driver's eye and the crazed smirk on his face, I should sit there and hope that the normally functioning system of drivers stopping for red lights will suddenly kick in.
Nope. Not having it. Trump is a threat to life and limb. Years from now, we will look back aghast, and shake our heads incredulously that we didn't get rid of this guy right away.
50
Blaming Trump is the easy way out but looking at the society that enabled someone like Trump is harder. It involves serious reflection and making a judgment on society. Trump did not emerge in a vacuum. I encounter variations of Trump like people everyday including among the commentators here.
16
Yes, Trump represents a self-recognizing constituency. That is the extent of his appeal.
2
Thanks for putting some common sense into this. Democratic politics gave us Trump, like it or not, and provide the obvious solution to him and his party toadies. One does hope the military is thinking about a "procedural 25th amendment" in case he does reach for that big button, though.
3
Absolutely not. It is REPUBLICAN politics that gave us Trump. His party selected him in the Republican primary. Democrats had nothing to do with it, unless you think it is only Democrats who should be responsible for saving the country from greedy charlatans, con-men, and thugs.
Republicans gave us Trump, and it is their responsibility to do something about this deeply flawed person who is unfit for the Presidency.
3
Consistently psychopathological politics has led to a terrible dearth of sane people in public offices in the US.
1
I'm all for getting out the voters in the next elections, but if the voting machines and procedures are not fixed before the next elections, the results will be similar to the debacle of 2016. The whole catastrophe will repeat itself. Procedures must be implemented so that the US electorate can have an honest outcome, and not a catastrophe that a hostile state actor and has brought about.
This is a serious problem and it is time for responsible citizens to demand effective changes to our voting systems and for Congress to fix what is broken.
10
The bigger picture, lest another version of tRump gain power in the future, is that our electoral system needs to change:
1. Get rid of gerrymandering
2. Hold all primaries on the same day so that small, rural, white states like Iowa or New Hampshire are not able to have an outsize influence on the direction and inertia of national elections.
3. Add more members to the electoral college so that all citizens, rural and urban, have the SAME proportion of representatives. Rural voters should not have undue influence. Or do away with the electoral college.
17
and 4. Keep Russian hackers out of voter databases, and
5. Use paper ballots and be prepared for hand recounts if the numbers look fishy.
2
I agree with all but the last suggestion. As imperfect as it is, abolishing the electoral college would mean every federal election from here on out would be decided by New York and California. That would simply be unacceptable.
1
Amen.
2
Is there a way states can put a question on the ballot in November for voters to answer Yes or No:
Do you believe Donald Trump is competent to continue to serve as President of the United States?
6
As a retired mental health professional, I've been saying this on Facebook and elsewhere for almost two years now. While a diagnosis may make people feel better, it does nothing to stop the behavior that is embarrassing the United States in front of the world.
I hope that Mr. Trump's physical examination Friday will include at the very least a mental status examination, which is cursory but works well to highlight deficits that should be further investigated.
However, we must keep firmly in front of us the fact that behavior is the factor that matters, and that includes nonsensical and irrational tweets and statements, whirlwind changing of his mind and other observable behavior.
Mr. Trump is not fit to be president. Period.
11
Trump seems do be doing pretty well from a personal progress perspective. why do you think he's mentally ill. shouldn't you be looking at yourselves for letting him get away with it?
I'm convinced that President Trump is "off." I'm not a psychiatrist, and don't need to be. Every American is free to draw her or his own conclusions about Trump's mental state. Every American should; no couch or degree required. Nuts or not, the central question remains: Does our Congress demonstrate the courage and integrity to do what's right and necessary for our nation?
9
The problem with this argument is Trump's ability to start a nuclear war on his own. Take his "big button"away from him, and I will agree with the editor of the NYT. Until then, waiting for 2018 or 2020 is foolhardy and dangerous. I note the recent call by many who have been nuclear weapons launch experts to have his ability to order a launch taken away from him. I agree with that. Anything less is indeed "crazy".
7
Questions of mental illness aside, I am not comfortable with "There's always 2020." How many drilling platforms will be under way by then? How many more miles of defiled shoreline? How many dead coal miners for lack of regulation? How many dead patients for lack of insurance? How much public land will disappear?
17
And your solution is?
And the biggest question of all - will we make it to 2020 without a nuclear holocaust?
1
In strict terms, 'crazy' is not a defined psychiatric entity. It is a universal term that summarizes under its umbrella a series of behavioral and/or personality traits that are individually so far outside the norm that they can become counterproductive, disruptive, self-destructive, alienating, financially or personally ruinous on the individual, corporate or societal level, and potentially dangerous to others once unbuttoned. This 6+s (or so) deviation from the median is what we colloquially refer to as 'crazy' and it may or may not include defined psychiatric or psychopathic conditions. In some cases, that person might even be considered brilliant by some in the present, or even widely in historical hindsight. Many great leaders thus were probably crazy, only few would play the fiddle while burning down the capital.
Trump certainly has numerous behavioral traits that lie way outside the norm. He also considers himself 'brilliant'. I haven't heard him play the fiddle yet, but he seems to be awfully occupied by the size of his button, which arguably is more dangerous than playing a fiddle on the White House lawn in his pajamas at midnight.
On that basis, one could argue that the term in the colloquial, but perhaps not professional psychiatric sense, is indeed appropriate.
Jared Kushner apparently does, too.
5
The assumption here is that psychiatrists are sane - that they are objective and unbiased and never make mistakes!
Is Mr. Trump nuts?
Ans. Yes
9
By all means, we should exercise our right to vote. However, our confidence in the polls has been diluted by the corrosive effect of GOP gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the continuing threat of Russian interference in our elections (which Trump, in his own blatant self-interest, has done nothing to address). And if (for instance) the chief executive is showing signs of progressive dementia, or some other mental health condition that interferes with his ability to govern, there is a valid reason to call for his removal via the 25th Amendment. The only people who can make that diagnosis are medical professionals, many of whom appear to be alarmed enough about the issue to speak out and risk censure. They should be applauded, not condemned.
As for impeachment, there is also good reason for citizens to urge their elected officials to use this means to remove a clearly unfit and likely corrupt president, especially if Special Counsel Robert Mueller finds grounds for criminal indictment. If we don't make demands, how else will our representatives know what we want, so they can act on our behalf? Why should we wait until more damage is done to our democracy? While I commend the Times for fulfilling its role as a member of the fourth estate, it's not the place of the press to instruct the people not to exercise our First Amendment right to call for the remedies afforded us by our Constitution.
8
The only people empowered to make the decision the 25th Amendment provides for are the cabinet members the alleged nut appointed. There is evidently some flawed logic in this amendment.
6
Or "such other body as Congress may by law provide." Rep. Jamie Raskin introduced such a bill: H.R. 1987, the Oversight Commission on Presidential Capacity Act.
You erred when you wrote: “ There’s a good reason the profession established an ethical guideline in 1973, known as the Goldwater Rule, that prohibits psychiatrists from offering professional judgment on public figures they have not examined ...”. Only psychiatrists have this ethical guideline. The organizations of Psychologists and Psychoanalysts have rejected the Goldwater Rule. Psychiatrists are in the medical field and still assume the need for a physical exam in part. However the organizations of Psychologists and Psychoanalysts rely on their ethic code to base a diagnosis on reasonable evidence. This may be based on documents of arrests, psychiatric hospitalizations, recorded statements, written statements (such as tweets) any any such objective evidence of mental functioning. As a forensic psychologist I am allowed to testify in court about people I have never meet but base my professional opinion on object documents.
Most mental health experts agree that Trump is a malignant narcissist. That makes him potentially dangerous.
14
One really does learn more about people from observing them in their natural habitats rather than the artificial contexts of laboratories or psychoanalysis.
3
Mr. Trump is not crazy. He is a man of our times -- Twitter, bitcoin, the "internet of things,"the complete breakdown of boundaries now that the internet has made us all citizens of the globe.
I am reminded of some of the lyrics from the Cole Porter classic "Anything Goes."
"....The world has gone mad today
And good's bad today,
And black's white today,
And day's night today,
And that gent today
You gave a cent today
Once had several chateaux."
2
If we wish to rely on the electoral process to safeguard our democracy, we need to insure that the elections are protected. Given the Trump and Republican collusion with Russian interference in our elections. the best strategy is to hold out for a government shutdown unless election protections are put in place.
6
Government shutdowns affect people living from check to check in all walks of life.
Editorial says Trump won with a small # of eligible voters turning out, so we all must vote? But why such low turnout, and for such a crucial election? Trump showed all his 'mental symptoms' before the election.
Other democracies have higher turnout. Why? We need a constructive comparison.
Other capitalist democracies don't turn their elections over to rich mega donors for financing like the US does. Voters see both US parties hustle big money from corporate donors.
Abroad, their high courts don't make up the absurd lie that unlimited money from the richest donors is 'free speech' protected by the constitution.
They actually ban the privately funded campaign ads that swamp our campaigns, profit our media, and manipulate US voters with fakery created by advertising agencies. Abroad, they give free media time for all candidates to inform voters of their platform.
They use public funding for basic costs during shorter campaign seasons,limit private money, & have national voting regulations.
France had a campaign news blackout the day or 2 before voting so the public could have a rest, and make up its mind without media. See NYT-- Why the Macron Hacking Attack Landed With a Thud in France.
As our politics worsen every day, the media isn't tracing cause/effect---Trump is a symptom of a system distorted by big money dominance that drowns out citizen influence on govt, and makes voters disgusted. Change this 1st, to motivate voters to go to the polls.
15
Oh, Hillary was supposed to be a shoo-in, so people figured they didn't need to turn out. Another big fat lie in this election of horrors. And people like me turned out to see our votes torched in the Slavery College.
4
As a licensed clinical psychologist, I agree with several other comments here positing that a "mental health evaluation" isn't going to be all that helpful, one way or another. There are many examples of people with diagnosable mental health conditions (depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, ADHD) who function quite well in high-level positions. Personality disorders (which may be the more relevant topic as it pertains to presidential behavior and actions), while unpleasant to witness and be around, similarly wouldn't disqualify someone from holding an important or powerful position (how many CEOs might be diagnosed as narcissists, if evaluated?). In my opinion the most important question is whether the president is actually cognitively competent, or whether there is some type of dementia process underlying his irrationality, repetitiveness in speech, disregard for facts, and impulsive behavior. This IS something that can be evaluated, not with a "mental health evaluation" but instead with a full neuropsychiatric assessment or a shorter dementia-type screen, completed by a qualified neuropsychologist. I'm under no illusion that the president will actually submit to this type of evaluation (or make the results public if he did), but this is what is really needed to understand what we're dealing with as a nation, and the risks to our safety in the future. .
9
I watched a Harvard shrink argue on CNN that being subject to manic-depression can facilitate better crisis management. That sure is news to me.
The comments suggesting politicians (or anyone else) "must have a psychiatric exam" to determine their fitness indicate people don't understand the nature of psychiatry. A couple of hours with a client does not establish a diagnosis and Psychiatry itself is confounded by personal biases and opinions and confused by the lack of any concrete measure. It's not hard science with measurements that can be checked and calibrated. It's theory piled on theory---useful sometimes, but it has not shown reliable predictive value. Back to science fiction, people.
3
A psychologist, who cannot prescribe drugs, simple tries to prod the patient along to talk out their own solutions.
1
This election also shows us that we need to improve and emphasize the importance for a free society of good public edification and the disservice to a free society of for-profit education that imparts values inimical to equality, social justice.
We need to educate future citizens. Prepare them for voting intelligently, for filtering out propaganda. We must inoculate them from being swayed by demogogues. We must ensure that children are educated in environments where they intermingle with all aspects of society, not segregated by race or social status or religion.
In order to foster civil comity, we have to rethink so many aspects of how we live, what we hope for in citizenship.
We are all responsible to make our society better. And we need to instill that from childhood.
3
Good editorial. To all those who think that Trump's time in the White House is a disaster, get out and work to get those with your point of view elected.
4
This is right. Also, his behavior fits into what we would expect of someone who behaved the way he did 20 years ago, who then aged 20 years, has been a reality show star, and has a Twitter account.
In Reagan's case, he occasionally forgot where he was toward the end of his time in office, which is one of the classic early signs of Alzheimer's. Trump's repetition has gone up and the complexity of his sentences has gone down, even though we all know he "has the best words". But that is normal aging-related cognitive decline. His mental faculties - especially the ones related to his career before this, namely con artistry - remain intact otherwise. There's nothing in the constitution to prevent old con artists from becoming president should they bamboozle enough people to win the Electoral College.
If you forget where your keys are, it isn't a sign of dementia, even if you forget where they are much more often than you used to. If you forget what keys are for, then you have a more serious problem.
3
The pattern is simple enough: Trump makes a statement on a subject, then adjusts his position to make it seem like he's in favor of the outcome, which is of course his doing in some way. This isn't "crazy" as such; it's an accepted motif in Emotional Intelligence Land, an offshoot of a pseudo-cultural Disneyland in which everyone is as facile as possible.
The crazy bit enters the picture if he believes any of it. Saying one thing and doing another or saying the exact opposite according to needs isn't unusual; it's expedient. Being deceptive isn't nuts per se; deceiving yourself, however, is hardly healthy. Deceiving yourself or believing that you're deceiving others when you're not, on a routine basis, is no great confirmation of mental stability, either.
Nixon was never accused of being nuts, but his actions could easily have provided that diagnosis. Johnson entered the Vietnam war firmly believing it was a mistake, but did it anyway. Nuts? Maybe.
Trump is unique. He's surrounded by an intimidated clique of yes-nobodies who serve as confirmation of whatever he does. These people are enablers, if not direct contributors, to the problems. He is under no real restraint at all, which is why the impression of needing restraint is so glaring.
Can you impeach a person's mentality? How about a culture of obsequious, obliging, oafs who simply want power and position? The problem is systemic, so the downfall has to be systemic. Hard facts will work better than theories.
2
Transference-projecting a human personality onto nature is the most popular self-deception in the US. People who don't participate in it are considered crazy.
Trump and his administration have been under a lot of fire for his Trade Policy, Environmental Law, Wage and Hour Litigation, and the Iran Nuclear Deal. He's been in office for already a year, what could be in store for Trump this year?
We actually had various speakers touch light on these subject, you can check it out here: https://www.theknowledgegroup.org/catalog?q=trump&type=live%2Crecorded
1
Donald Trump's epic unfitness for office is so obvious and so painful that every thinking person is desperately searching for a quick fix. But as this clear, cogent article unfortunately reminds us, that is simply not going to happen.
Like every American, I have watched my country be embarrassed and disgraced by Trump. And like so many others, I have been radicalized by him and by the shameless support he's received from the Republican party. I've voted for GOP candidates in the past; it is simply inconceivable that I will ever vote for a Republican in the future. They own Donald Trump; they are Donald Trump.
But I will vote. And so will millions of others who, like me, have been radicalized by the wretched abnormality that calls the White House home today.
11
Hitler believed that he was a genius who wanted to make his country great again. He was the leader of his party who were loyal to him as his policies resulted in cities being bombed into rubble and the Red Army was crossing the border. The GOP in Congress do not click their heels and give the straight arm salute but they just as well might be doing so as they surrender the rule of law and our democracy to Trump’s desire to become a dictator who like Hitler flies into vindictive rages when he does not get his way. Hitlerism as Trumpism replaced Christianity as the religion of the masses.
I agree that the 25th amendment is a non-starter and the chances of the GOP impeaching Trump is the same as the Nazis getting rid of Hitler as Germany was reduced to rubble. I do not want the USA to be reduced to rubble because of Trump so how can we get rid of a dangerous president and wannabe tyrant? If we cannot vote him out there is nothing left to save.
7
Nope. We need to demand impeachment because his is incapacitated - yes, mentally ill - a more than textbook case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder - and because it is as high a crime as any to publicly threaten to destroy a country of 25,000,000 people. And yes, it does make a difference if people with expertise in psychology assess his mental health and mental fitness. To quote your quote "You can’t say enough about how incompetent and unqualified he is to be leader of the free world. But that does not make him mentally ill." Actually, pretending to be competent to lead the free world, when you weren't even competent to rip people off with casinos, is as palpable a symptom of illness as any.
The Goldwater survey of '64 wasn't initiated by psychiatrists, but by the press - it's up to the press to get this story out where it belongs! (My only objection to the that survey was that it hasn't been made for every candidate. If we discover the job (suited kingship) itself is psychopathological, so much the better!)
The impossible happened - a mentally ill man with no political experience was elected president on the strengths of his success as a business fraud, and owing to the confidence of having nothing whatever to lose. The possible and rational has not yet happened - the case for his removal from office (which should have been made during the election) has not been made and pressed; a case which can only galvanize the votes necessary to make the necessary change.
5
President Trump is eccentric rich guy that is used to failing and getting out of it by telling himself that failure is part of the process. Executives and entrepreneurs understand that a symbiotic relationship with this success and failure pattern will eventually lead to ultimate success. This is actually a great approach for "personal" growth.
He likely assumed that all he needed to do is surround himself with a crack team of loyal, intelligent, policy makers, and as long as he signed a researched executive order, he was good to go. All that's great! That's how many successful people run massive industries that keep millions employed. But it doesn't appear he considered all the the boot-licking and "et tu bute" behavior that pervades his administration. It also seems that he just doesn't understand the law, which is deplorable.
I once said, "I'm sick and tired of watching lawyers become presidents--that's the problem with Washington!" I take it back. I was wrong and I learned. The takeaway from all this is that President Trump will not be impeached because he'll be up for re-election by the time that fiasco is done so at this point is unnecessary. If he's nuts someone smart will pull the plug and we'll endure another embarrassing scandal. Let's just make sure that we vote for someone smart next time and no more entertainers for a while. The Presidency is harder than it appears.
3
There ought to be a law- all potential candidates for president, senate or house must undergo a psychiatric evaluation prior to being eligible to run.
Those in Congress who enable Trump are just as unfit.
Trump appointees are just as unfit.
The American people must take responsibility for their votes.
Any other suggestions are welcome.
Abolish the electoral college?
Wow, America can't do anything and indeed, Putin is truly lucky. No nukes fired, no gun shot, and he's bringing America down. With the help of the GOP, which Putin knows are corrupt and easily manipulated.
And the solution is to vote in 2018 and 2020? Too easy, much too easy for the Russians.
Putin found America's Achilles' heel.
3
There may be questions about his mental heath, although this is pure speculation without a professional evaluation. But there is no question that the term "nuts" is stigmatizing and offensive to people with mental illness. And I am not speculating. https://www.nami.org/Blogs/NAMI-Blog/March-2012/Language,-Stigma-and-Pol...
3
Yes, and so are those who elected him. Welcome to America.
3
Evidently, Trump is only crazy and doing damage if the Republicans say he is crazy.
Experts, truth, and professionals who have years of education no longer matter anymore. In fact, what the truth is, and what experts and professionals tell us (e.g., dangers of climate change, Russian meddling in our elections, continually redistributing out economy upward, the need for health insurance for our children, etc.) often head Trump, the GOP, and Trump supporters in the opposite direction. And that is really NUTS!
4
This editorial has it exactly right. Use of psychiatric technical language, even correct use, misses the point and creates the "Goldwater rule" objection. Far better to use non-technical words like bullying, childish, superficial, uninformed, self-involved, thin skinned, abusive, incompetent, and callous. The 25th amendment is NOT going to work nor is impeachment. Votes. Votes are what is going to solve the Trump problem.
3
Bill Maher aired on his show various television clips of Trump that were from decades ago. Trump appeared to be rational, intelligent and compassionate in the video clips. Maher said "What happened to this guy????!!!" Clearly there is something mentally askew with the 2018 Trump.
3
Maybe instead an psychiatric exam, presidents should be forced to take a basic-ignorance test? Basic geography, basic democracy, and constitution questions? How about asking Trump to take the same test immigrants have to pass to get citizenship?
3
Just a thought...whatever happened to his supposed-to-be physical last week? Haven't heard anything...What's up?
What did you expect? The problem is not with Trump, the problem is with the electorate who saw a guy come down some gaudy gold escalators and declare Mexicans rapists and said "I'll have some of that" They saw someone who asked his supporters to beat up protesters and he would pay to bail them out of jail, and they said "I'll have some of that" They heard the access hollywood tapes and they said "I'll have some of that" Trump has provided the blueprint for other misogynists and racists. I would suggest that there be some kind of mental and physical tests for candidates to protect the American people from themselves. They have proven unfit to vet their own leaders.
6
Is there any sane and truthful person who thinks that Trump is not nuts?
5
Mr. Trump is a huge narcissist and his cabinet appointments and policies are astoundingly horrible and damaging.
The good news is that this is causing the GOP majority to crumble, and if we can all get out and vote in really good Democratic president, we can begin sweeping the Trump policies away.
Lesson learned. Vote!
4
I'm sure you thought that Trump will never win.
1
Whether Trump is "crazy" is certainly besides the point. Was Stalin Crazy? What about Hitler, Mussolini, Assad, Hussein, Pinochet and all the other tyrants who have killed to many people? Just because a leader's acts are evil doesn't make them crazy. In some ways, the term is too easy, making it unnecessary to explain immoral behavior by dictators who kill their own citizens. Trumps behavior must speak for itself, but, unlike a crazy person, he must be held responsible for his actions.
2
Yes indeed. Hold the President responsible for the booming Stock Market, growing economy and low employment rate.
How are you going to convince people to vote for your candidate?
The only argument you seem to have is that Trump is crazy
Trump appears to be in the process of strengthen libel laws, presumably to counter this type of question (Is he nuts?) along with the Fire and Fury revelations etc. But what this will also do, if it is done in the same blunt vein as his immigration policy, is stifle the #MeToo movement. The recent accusations towards James Franco, for example, could be considered defamation of character, if a law required that solid evidence be presented i.e. rather than a jury of peers listening to the situation and making a judgement. The moment we are in does appear to throw due process out the window for the accused. The moment is catalyzed by the Presidentially-weaponized-Twitter i.e. vigilante armies of disgruntled voices rushing to crucify publicly the next victim. To the sheer delight of Trump and his deplorables, the liberal left are eating their own, with the accused being all from Hollywood. Yet none of the accused (who have multiple accusers) are vehemently denying that there is some truth to their behavior. Even Franco, who denies the actions, is unwilling to attempt to shut down his accusers.
The next move is located in the "unknowable reaches" of Trumps mind, along with his unfitness. He may try to cast all this as genius, when in fact, it is just the chaos that occurs when an unstable personality shifts the machinery of government slightly off kilter.
The only answer for stability is to vote him out.
1
If a president was found to have a mental illness - would the ADA prevent their dismissal because of the illness?
1
Trump is a jerk, his interests are tightly focused about himself, he has no concerns about life beyond the extent of his own, he is profoundly uninterested in what makes our government work and how the affairs between nations affect nations and individuals, he does not care whether what he says is factually correct as long as elicits the responses that he seeks, he does not care about objective reality, he cares only about manipulating other people, and he has absolutely no interest in knowing about history nor nature nor technology, but he is not mentally ill. His concept of leadership is ruling and being obeyed. He has no sense that life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness have any importance in comparison to wealth and power. He is manifestly unsuitable to be President and he would greatly prefer to be emperor. He has wealth and he has power, and for him that is more than enough. Liberty and justice are constraints for him, so he really has no use for either.
2
He doesn't have to be crazy to be rude,selfish,greedy,uneducated,misogynistic,racist,narcissistic,paranoid,
resentful,garish,obnoxious,petulant,short tempered, a danger to all of mankind. But WE have to crazy to let him continue as president. Vote as a citizen, not as red or blue,to restore our country to our former admired position in the world.
1
Trump is a genius at self-promotion. He is the ultimate salesman and hence the ultimate natural politician, but is sort of an idiot savant in that he is missing normal human traits that we take for granted in other people. Who could make millions by convincing people to fork over their life savings to attend Trump University in the hope of becoming real estate moguls? But what billionaire would devote himself to such a slimy scheme?
5
Trump utterly lacks the acute sense of guilt I experience from doing unwitting harm to others.
3
Witting or unwitting.
Nuts or not. Unfit to serve.
4
Is Trump nuts?
Absolutely - "Crazy like a fox"
2
A comment by a old guy from Montreal: our gouvernement has annonced that they expect that your prez will kill NAFTA by the end of this month. Now, if that’s not proof of being really, really nuts, I don’t know what is.
1
"The politicians act as if Hitler sprang fully formed from the brow of Jupiter. Men of conscience could have stopped that madman years ago." - excerpt from Greg Isles' Black Cross
2
Wise words, but tell me how we get his finger off the nuclear button. Or stop him from provoking another lunatic into a war. Please don't say, "run good candidates next fall and get out the vote." We could literally be toast by then.
3
The problem isn't Trump - he's just along for the ride. He ran for business reasons and to trick people into lending him money. He didn't think he would get elected.
Anyone who pulled the lever or pushed the (tiny) button for him is to blame.
2
It is natural for people to be seeking a magic bullet solution to the Trump problem.
Trump’s handpicked lackeys will never rise up against their master.
The Republicans believe it is in their best interests to support Trump.
This Republican belief can be assailed by mass protest before the mid-term elections.
The Democrats would surely impeach Trump if they had the numbers.
But sadly the non-electoral elimination of Trump would give the Republicans Pence and dramatically improve their electability.
One might assert that the best solution is ballot box Aramageddon for the Republicans in 2018 and 2020.
However, this leaves the sacred cow of the GOP un-slaughtered and ready to rise again from its own ashes and spew forth more low grade trash candidates like Palin and Trump and more elitist serving policy.
Lincoln would disavow the GOP and so should self-respecting Conservatives.
It is time to create a new Conservative Party that would provide an immediate existential threat to both Trump and the GOP and set American politics on a better path.
3
It seems obvious that Trump, because of his inherited wealth, never felt he had to go through the kind of character development most of us felt obliged to when we were growing up. He was by all accounts an "incorrigible" youth who apparently never had to pay any price for his misdeeds. He was not raised with the values most of us think important: to treat others with kindness and respect, to be truthful, and to handle responsibilities with care, attentiveness, while studying how to improve their life and the lives of others.
He's mean, nasty, belligerent, abysmally ill informed on just about every issue, he is unbelievably self-centered to a degree almost no social group would tolerate. Friends? Does he have any? No one, not even his family apparently, ever escaped his petty spitefulness. He also lies each and every day--the count is now up to 2000 since his inauguration.
I cannot say if he is among the 20% or so of all CEOs that are clinically psychotic, even though they function highly (which doesn't preclude the possibility of their having a psychotic break at some point). But the fact that he demands to have his tweet about every little thing and that those tweets add up to nothing at all in the way of intelligent insight, consistent policy or even just decency strikes me as completely disqualifying him for the office he occupies.
5
Perfectly stated.
1
With this editorial, the NYT bolsters the notion that its ranks are populated by individuals who apparently have very little skin in the game of today's world. Go vote? This might seem the right prescription for voting out a government whose ideology, actions, and policies might rub one the wrong way. It's not by any means a way to deal with the imminent peril of war and destruction and which is the chief concern why medical professionals feel the urgency to speak out, something this editorial doesn't even acknowledge. You may come to rue the words and (non)advice you uttered today.
1
Vote. Right, we did that in 2016, and we voted for Hillary (many of us while holding our noses.) Have you noticed who is in office?
Do you pay attention to (quoting Mr. Trump) how rigged the voting system is? Operation Cross Check, voter disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, even the Electoral College which is inherently biased in favor of small states....
Try reading gregpalast.com and you will learn more than you possibly want about voting in the US.
2
Thank goodness for the buffering effect of our national complexity and resiliency: One person can only do so much damage, assuming of course he avoids certain catastrophic options that are his to exercise. I say, let us be a humble and grateful nation--grateful for so many 4-year terms in the past that have helped build a foundation resistant to the corrosion of the current one.
Indeed, the deepest concern comes back to the electorate. I pray that the citizens of the United States will return to a place where leaders are elected and upheld for their respect, restraint, wisdom, humility, vision, industry, and bravery. We will get more Trumps if we keep voting for them. So let's all get on board and elect presidents that, above all, are really good people!
1
Under current law (ADA), the issue is not the psychiatric diagnosis, rather, it's the ability to perform the essential functions of the job.
That ends up being a political judgment in this case.
At this point, the bar has been fully lowered for Trump -- partly by the commentary about his mental health.
He may actually gain political ground with his performance at the recent meetings, simply by not appearing to be in a later stage of dementia.
The question which has been nagging at me is, "What does it say about us that he won?".
2
When was the last time anyone has read the "Declaration of Independence"?
Word for Word it seems more relevant today than at anytime since 1776 !
We need another Thomas Jefferson to address a "Declaration of Independence"
akin to 2018 !
1
I agree with the basic argument of this editorial. However, I’m just curious how the odds of something happening can be “less than zero.” It seems that zero odds would suffice.
As a mental health professional, and a person interested in preserving, protecting and defending the American republic, I appreciate this editorial very much. There is, indeed, a difference between "unfit," which the current occupant of the oval office is in my estimation, and "incapacitated." He has not appeared "incapacitated" in his carefully controlled public appearances, even if his verbiage meets criteria for "circumstantial" and his behavior is suggestive of a personality disorder diagnosis. If, in fact, he IS appearing incapacitated in other settings, then it behooves the Cabinet and Vice President to gather evidence and take action while we still have a nation to call home. It is up to Congress to deal with the "unfitness" and I hope all people who agree that he is unfit are in regular contact with their congressional representatives.
All of the social media websites should be allowed to give out degrees in Psychiatry because now we have so many experts who never would have been accepted into Medical School. I didn't vote for Trump and dislike a majority of his policies but prefer to concentrate on how his policies effect people and not the fact that he looks fat on the golf course or has little hands.
1
Psychiatric assessments do more than place people into diagnostic categories. They also evaluate the functional capability of the individual in the context of their life, work and responsibilities as a function of their mental and emotional state, capacities and connection (or lack of connection) to reality.
Such evaluations are commonplace for people in high-stress, high-responsibility positions, such as police officers.
It would be immensely valuable to have credentialed professionals produce a formal mental/emotional assessment of Trump, no matter how 'obvious' his aberrations may be to the average citizen.
Also, to say we should refrain from doing this because of the spin the Trump team will put on it is beyond foolish. They spin everything.
2
I don't believe he's crazier than any president before him. He's merely less calculated in what he openly expresses. The latter probably from the combination of a flamboyant personality and his life-long involvement in the entertainment industry, where any publicity is good publicity.
However, what is crystal clear is that neocons/neoliberals, liberals, and establishment Democrats are in a state of permanent hysteria and have become completely unhinged by his presidency. My recommendation: It may be time for group therapy.
1
My concern with the President, from the very beginning, has been his Vulgarian ways and the damage he has done to the Presidency of the USA. I agree that the question is somewhat irrelevant because the damage to the institution of the Presidency has already been done.
Our concern now should be how to begin the work of restoring the Presidency, and find ways to prevent another person like President Trump from ever getting elected again, regardless of party affiliation.
2
Michael D'Antonio, who wrote, "The Truth About Trump," pretty much covered his parents, his childhood, his abruptly being shipped off to boarding school at the age of 13, which pretty much gives one an idea of who he is, was, and has always been. If one believes in unique DNA for each individual, then that also explains much of what people don't understand, which is that he has an irrational personality, and has always had it. The fact that his father was one of the wealthiest persons, when he was born, and his childhood was formed in New York, explains much about him as well. Most people over the age of 65, if on medicine, overweight, under stress, experience some dementia, forgetfulness, which is just another layer of frosting on the cake. Unfortunately, America unlike China, seems to believe that everyone should be an individual, and has a right to be just that. China, on the other hand, promotes conformity, and little out of the norm. Even though we are happy for our freedom, there is something to be said for normal behavior in China, that would be like a breath of fresh air, about now!
1
Everyone keeps denouncing Trump's fitness for office. That it's true isn't the problem, that was well known long before he took office. He was elected maybe not completely fair and square but a lot of people in our country simply don't care that he lies, that he's more concerned with criticism than the country, that he contradicts himself sometimes in the same tweet. That's the real and present danger, those that still think he's doing a great job. The Republican congress is silent for their own ends but what about the Trump base? How did the greatest country on earth produce such hate directed at mostly minorities? How do they not understand history or decency? Comprehensive immigration reform is far different from Build A Wall. Disliking Hillary is hardly justification for chants of lock her up.
With or without Trump we have a problem.
3
Most people understand that Trump is not fit for office and he has demonstrated that abundantly. The 25th amendment cannot be used to get rid of him as it is impracticable and unenforceable. Impeachment is equally untenable. However, people talk of 25th amendment for it carries a certain excitement and flavor. It is great for TV anchors and late night shows but not possible. So let us all take a deep breath, thank the his base for their choice and enjoy this colorful Juvenile President, with fingers crossed, till he is out of White House.
Well, one reason for pursuing Trump's mental condition is that it would allow for removal under the 25th amendment. There are no provisions for removing a President for incompetence and it is highly unlikely that the Republican majority will support impeachment proceedings, so that is all that is left us to avoid the continued reign of someone who -- by your own assessment -- poses a clear and present danger to the country and the world.
1
Agreed. The most likely resolution to this national crisis runs through the polls.
But that addresses only the painful, obvious symptom of a national disease. This president's existence in office is directly due to a collective acquiescence to his white male privilege. (I wish that could be said with some less inflammatory label - unfortunately, the label is 1000% spot on accurate)
It is painfully true that no other gender nor race could have pulled any of this disaster off. This proverbial railroad would have been derailed a hundred times over BEFORE it was laughed off of the primary's stage much less the national election.
3
Who wants a nuclear war? All those in favor, say "aye." If Donald Trump is as potentially dangerous as experts say that he is, then we need to address the problem now, not nine months from now at the polls. By "experts," I mean forensic and other psychiatrists who have devoted their careers to studying and preventing violence,. By "address the problem," I mean use the Constitution and the legislative branch to impartially evaluate this president's fitness for duty, utilizing the same criteria routinely employed with military officers. If an impartial, emergency evaluation deems Donald Trump unfit for duty, then it is time to invoke the 25th Amendment, no matter how "unrealistic" such a remedy may appear to be.
"The psychiatrists say they have a duty to warn the public about what they see as a serious threat to the nation. That’s commendable, but they should consider how their comments will be taken by the vast majority of Americans, particularly in a highly politically polarized time. The language of mental health and illness is widely used yet poorly understood, and it comes loaded with unwarranted assumptions and harmful stereotypes."
The same could reasonably said about climate science and the warnings issued by professional climate scientists, yet I doubt The Times would editorialize against their pronouncements on the basis that their scientific terminology is politicized and poorly understood. Which professionals should resist what they perceive as a moral duty to warn on the basis that what they say is susceptible to misinterpretation by the populace? Is it just psychiatrists or are you calling for a more general moratorium on the dissemination of complicated assessments?
1
Even Machiavelli is not an advocate of scornful, abusive treatment of an enemy.
In the Discourses he warns: " I hold it to be a sign of great prudence in men to refrain alike from threats and from the use of insulting language, for neither of these things deprives the enemy of his power, but the first puts him more on his guard, while the other intensifies his hatred of you and makes him more industrious in devising means to harm you."
Trump has a lot of powerful help. To win the next elections people need to organize, get out the vote, vote! But what about the states that suppress and deny people the vote, gerrymandered districts? Then you had better have teams to watch the polls and machines that count the votes.
I am in agreement. I especially appreciate the line "Republicans in Congress .... like co-conspirators of a man they know is unfit to govern."
If only to prove to history that this generation of Americans TRIED to rid ourselves of this man, we must initiate impeachment proceedings as soon as the Democrats retake Congress this Fall.
At the same time millions of us must move heaven and earth to convince all of our Senators that they must do the right thing and remove him from Office.
Meanwhile, citizens along with our Free Press, must carefully consider ALL that’s gone wrong in this nation, socially, politically, economically etc. And consider what needs to happen in each of those areas for things to improve.
We can’t just worship a document like the Consititution if it’s been proven to have loopholes a demagogue can drive through. We must fearlessly consider what we might change. A presidential system, for example, has been proven to be less stable than a parliamentary form of government - which has both safeguards to who can be elected as Prime Minister and ways to quickly unseat one via a “vote of no confidence”. Additionally, a parliament allows for more than two parties to gain representation, which would benefit us hugely, especially as we are such a large and diverse nation.
No form of government is perfect. We must face that!
3
You're still in shock, and fail to see that the country is not doing too bad.
"Economists Credit Trump as Tailwind for U.S. Growth, Hiring and Stocks"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/economists-credit-trump-as-tailwind-for-u-s...
1
According to Wikipedia " The Twenty-fifth Amendment was adopted on February 10, 1967." That is 2 1/2 years after JFK's assassination and hardly "in the wake of" that event. And what in the world would the 25th Amendment have to do with an assassination??
The idea of the twenty-fifth amendment originally surfaced when President Eisenhower was incapacitated by his heart problems and it seemed unclear what powers, if any, his Vice President, Richard M. Nixon could assume as long as President Eisenhower was still alive.
I understand that some of the Times Editorial Board is "youngish" but this is not obscure ancient history. I would have expected at least one of the Board's more mature members to have corrected this not particularly accurate characterization of the history of the Twenty-Fifth Amendment.
There are hundreds of mental health professionals, including the eminent and frequently quoted ones like Bandy Lee, John Gartner, Robert Jay Lifton, Leonard L. Glass, Philip Zimbardo, Lance Dodes, and Justin Frank among others who have publicly urged that the 25th should be utilized now before it's too late. Allen Frances is in the minority.
Trump "shouldn't" have the nuclear football at his beck and call. Unfortunately, this "shouldn't” is along the lines of everyone from Ralphie's mother to Santa Claus saying "you shouldn't get a Red Ryder BB Gun because you'll shoot your eye out."
The political reality at present is that Trump hasn't decompensated drastically enough to convince politicians and the public who influence them that the time has come.
The stress is increasing, and objective observers can see these defenses in action everytime he goes off script.
Stress will increase as Mueller gets closer to exposing him for the criminal liar he is, as more and more people believe the excerpts they hear from "Fire and Fury," or come to understand that the facts in the dossier are true. It is within the realm of possibility that Trump's defenses with "crack like an egg" and he will suffer an acute psychotic break or show signs of obvious dementia, or both. If this happened he'd become so delusional and paranoid it would be difficult, or impossible to hide. Pence and the Cabinet would have to act.
1
Psychiatrists do have a role as experts in evaluating Trump's unfitness for office. What Bandy Lee says, for example, goes beyond what people would know just by common sense.
Trump will be removed from office when enough voters believe he's unfit, so that it becomes politically toxic for legislators to support him.
1
You continue to raise questions about Trump's mental capacity, as do other media, but the rest of the country sees behind the bluster and twitter rants and thinks he's the smartest guy in the country. The economy is humming, workers by the tens of thousands are getting raises and bonuses, he's eliminating ISIS, securing our borders and giving everyone a real feeling of accomplishment. So you keep questioning his sanity. We know the real truth.
2
Actually this parrots the Fox version of "the truth" which is basically "not the truth". You would have to actually want to know and read fact-based journalism.
1
Thank-you, NYT.
I'm sure many Americans experienced the same emotions I did throughout 2017: disbelief, despair, anger, and depression. It was a cruel and grueling year, watching Trump systematically destroy the progress the country made during the Obama administration, hearing him take credit for the Obama economy. Trying to come to grips with a White House occupied by the likes of Bannon and Miller. Connecting more and more dots in the ongoing Russian investigation. Worrying about nuclear war, global warming, and the future of our children. Becoming a 24 hour a day news junkie. Waiting for someone to save America.
But at some point, after signing more petitions than I could count and writing out more checks than I could afford, I came to realize that although I do believe that Trump has a mental disorder, that didn't matter. What mattered was that I was allowing Trump to control my life and that was driving me crazy. And so it became necessary to put aside emotion and understand my own and every citizen's real power: The Vote. It's not immediate gratification, but it will work.
Vote. Every Single Time. Long lines, short lines, voter suppression or intimidation. Rain or shine, sick or inconvenienced. Every color. Every religion. Rich or poor. Young or old. Every man and every woman. Every primary. Every election. Local, State, National. Democracy is ours for the voting.
1
I agree with the gist of the Times' position on the subject of the President's mental health, but I wish I could be as confident as the publisher that, with President Trump remaining in office, there will indeed BE a 2020, or even a November. To many Americans, Trump and his toadies represent a clear and present, if not an existential, danger.
It's one thing to disagree with the policies or comportment of someone in office. It's another thing to be downright frightened.
1
Trump has many unsavory personality traits: narcissism, vindictiveness, thin-skin, to name a few. He breeds chaos and distraction as a method of achieving leverage in negotiations. Unpredictability, as unsettling as it may be with the person in the most powerful position in the world, can work in his favor (OMG! He may very well nuke us! Let's talk...).
That all said, Trump is not insane or even irrational. He has made rational decisions regarding economic and defense issues. Even though the Democrats want to credit Obama-era policies for the stock market boom, it actually is due to the reduced regulatory and tax environments, coupled with the promise more business-friendly international trade deals. The demonstrated results of his policy decisions cannot be denied.
He is the "anti-Obama" from a presidential behavior perspective. He is childish and ephemeral in his tweets. I pine for the day he would only call Rosie O'Donnell names instead of Kim Jong-Un. At least Rosie doesn't have nuclear weapons.
All of these behaviors were demonstrated during the campaign and, despite Democratic excoriation, was still elected President. Based on this, my prediction is that he will continue his behavior as is. The liberal press and Democrats will continue to have a cow. Oh, and he will likely get re-elected in 2020...
1
The first step toward curing any sickness is for the patient to accept that he or she has a sickness. In this case, the sickness is mental. The biggest with mental patients is that they never admits to having any problem.
To symptoms you have listed to substantiate that Mr. Trump's mental sickness, I can add one more: his habitual lying without being aware that he is lying. In one year in office, he has uttered 2,000 lies, it was reported yesterday. All this proves that Mr. Trump needs psychiatric help.
Apart from being a mental patient, he is also an egomaniac. Getting to submit to a psychiatric evaluation, let alone treatment, will be an impossible task.
The man is not the head of any state. He is the head of the most powerful state in the world. He has his finger on the nuclear button, which he is treating as a plaything. The dangerous possibility of his pressing that button cannot be ruled out.
What is the remedy? If the Mueller investigation can definitively make a case of obstruction of justice, impeachment would be the next logical next step. But with Republicans being in majority in the House of Representatives, that may not happen.
The only alternative is to invoke the 25th Amendment. Again, for the 25th Amendment to take its course, its proponents must be able to muster two-third majority in both houses of Congress. Will sufficient members of Congress put the interests of the country ahead of partisan politics. They owe it to the whole world.
What I find most disturbing is the efficacy of the "checks and balances" of our republic. Trump, wether sane or insane, sociopath or not, is a danger to himself and others. Why does the governmental system of the United States of America put so much stock in the whims of ONE individual?
1
So now it's official.
While the editors of the New York Times agree that "Mr. Trump presents a grave and immediate danger to the safety of America and the world", their recommendation to other Americans and other inhabitants of the world is to do nothing. This is the greatest abnegation of responsibility in the history of this newspaper, as far as I am aware.
(If they wrote an editorial after the invasion of Poland saying that America should do nothing about it, then maybe not...)
Trump is going to start a series of wars to distract attention from his corruption and collusion and incompetence and to allow him to run for re-election as a "war president".
He is likely to do more, stuff like ordering dissidents arrested or intimidated - think J Edgar Hoover - once he starts a war. He might get Congress to pass a new "War Powers" Act to validate his fascistic actions, we'll have to wait and see.
But all the editors can come with is, "do nothing that is likely to actually affect the national and international situation until you are able to vote against the GOP (I assume) or directly against Trump. In the meantime, just hope and pray Trump doesn't get you or someone you love killed for no better reason than his personal aggrandisement."
America and Americans have proven time and time again that they know how to deal with despots and tyrants. The editors of the Times don't seem partial to the lessons of history. It is a chilling abandonment of responsibility and ethics.
2
• In “The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump,” released last October, more than two dozen contributors, most mental-health professionals, concluded that Mr. Trump presents a grave and immediate danger to the safety of America and the world.
I have been commenting for years that the U.S. is the greatest danger to peace and world stability. It has the record of spending 93% of its years since Independence in 1776 at war.
It is the only country that has had the audacity to use atomic bombs against civilian populations, TWICE – please spare me the standard excuses and fake 'rationals'; in just this past century it has repeatedly ravaged Asia, Latin America, the Caribbean and the Middle East and forcibly interfered with myriad foreign governments and sponsored revolutions, assassinations, and coups whenever and wherever it pleased – at whim, forever passing the buck and pronouncing warmongering quest for hegemony for mankind's salvation, protection and benefit–'fake news' if any.
“To wage a war for a purely moral reason is as absurd as to ravish a woman for a purely moral reason. The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.” ~ H.L. MENCKEN
These have never been published by The Times.Criticism of the US
But there's a new acceptable trend right now. As long as you drape pandemonium as personified in Trump, the sum of it all, THAT gets a pass.
“Better a cruel truth than a comfortable delusion.”~ EDWARD ABBEY
Maybe now I'll get a pass.
3
Thank you.
1
There’s an ongoing dialogue in every society between psychological notions of “sanity” and “insanity,” which frequently boils down to fixing the contested and continually shifting boundary of conventional behavior (conformity)—and *then* demanding professional authority to endorse this lay attitude, which is always antiquated in a flourishing society.
It is an exercise that calls for an “archaeologist” of a sort, an anthropologist, rather than sociological intervention.
We can also show up in DC on Jan. 20th. Demonstrating solidarity is crucial and as we have observed before, crowd size does matter. Putting our voices and thoughts into demonstrable action is the solution.
It just feels like the next right thing to do...
8
I believe Jan. 20 should be a National Day of Mourning for our nation in which American citizens don black clothes and march in a solemn procession down Pennsylvania Avenue. This will have to be a non-governmental ceremony since the loss of our government is what we're mourning.
2
The DC weather forecast for January 20 is a high of 49 -- too hot for you snowflakes but by all means you're welcome to drop in and drop some of your extra tax reform cash on DC businesses.
Many articles and comments urge us all to vote when the next election occurs. But sometimes that remedy is years away, while the Congress and President can enact toxic legislation or spew out executive orders every day of the week. This previous election is still under investigation for being anything but trustworthy. How can we believe that the next ones won't be equally tainted by foreign meddling, partisan gerrymandering, disinformation and ignorance? The English Parliament has a vote of confidence tool where the opposition party calls for a vote of confidence on which all parties vote. If the result is that the majority don't have confidence in the government, the majority party resigns and another election is held. I could see a process here where even if the majority party doesn't have to resign, the public message that most Americans don't have confidence in their government puts everyone on notice and provides a mandate for change without having to wait years for relief. Our mid-term elections are as close to this as we have, but two years can feel like eternity when Rome is burning. Our forebears didn't include the vote of confidence process in creating our government, but then they never encountered or expected to encounter a Donald Trump in the White House. It's the in between go-to we need when our other processes are too extreme to apply.
9
There is nothing wrong with Trump. He was raised in a bubble of wealth and has absolutely no idea how government works. He has no idea of the world and thinks he alone can do great deals to make America great. He gives the poor hope while giving more to the rich few. It is something Americans are going to have to accept for the next 3 years.
5
If he doesn't know how the world or government works he shouldn't have applied for and taken the job of President.
2
Psychiatric evaluation is very difficult. In Trump's case, the evaluation would have to consider his personality structure. And the clinical tools for doing this, are VERY blunt and crude instruments, whose results depend on the subject's answers to questions about himself. Trump is way smart enough to understand which questions he should not answer truthfully. The examiner can give proportionally more weight to family members' account of personality traits, but does anyone seriously believe that his family would dare to give him anything other than glowing praise? So I have to say, I agree with the commentators here who've pointed out that such an evaluation most likely would give him a clean bill of mental health. So- look to his actions, and vote him and his party out of office!
P.S. I'm a psychiatrist.
6
We have all had plenty of opportunity to see how Trump actually deals with real word situations.
1
Is Mr. Trump 'nuts'? Well, perhaps not. But, does he exhibit psychopathology? Absolutely. The clinical diagnosis of mental illness displays latitudes that permit placement of the ill individual on a continuum, from mild to severe impairment, which may, or may not significantly affect on job performance. Malignant narcissism is a clinical diagnosis that is rather far out on the spectrum labeled narcissism. When Trump declares with deep conviction to the whole world that he is a genius, this diagnosis of malignant narcissism seems clear. Can a person with this diagnosis do the job? That depends on how his decision making is constrained. For Trump, there are layers of constraint imposed by his advisors. He cannot simply flick his 'big' nuclear 'button' and reign down destruction on the world. There are constraints at multiple levels of this process. I agree that invoking the 25th Amendment is highly unlikely. But the public does need to know if we have a President who is displaying signs of mental illness, and, if so, what clinical illness categories they fit into. For psychopathic behavior on public display, It is not necessary to require direct personal contact with the patient in order to make a diagnosis. It's there in the media for the whole world to see.
5
Toss out the voting machines.
Toss out the Electoral College.
Undo grievous gerrymandering.
Until these steps are taken a fair representative government has been manipulated into near extinction.
12
Also, undo the Citizens United ruling.
4
I recommend that the commenters go to Open Secrets and compare the votes of their MoC and the list of their donors, especially on the republican side.
There's a 1 to 1 correspondence.
They're in it for themselves, not their constituents.
4
Yes, we can vote in 2020. In the meantime, it's important to wage as fierce a battle as possible, through the pen, the pocketbook, and the ballot, against the lies, greed, nepotism, cronyism, and exclusion that characterize this kleptocratic kakistocracy.
7
Trump may not meet the definition of mentally ill, that is have a chemical imbalance in his brain, but that doesn't mean that he isn't suffering from early on-set dementia.
Trump suddenly got up and wandered the stage in Israel with a blank look on his face. He had similar behavior when he deplaned one time. Both times people chased after him and brought him back. He recently slurred his words during a speech. Over Christmas he wore heavy makeup and didn't recognize old friends. He's repeating the same things over and over as if he doesn't remember that he just said this. His attention span is decreasing.
These are all symptoms of dementia. And if Trump does have dementia, his symptoms will continue to get worse as time goes on.
13
I'm surprised this is still a question.
8
I agree, everybody in their right mind knows Trump is crazy. The matter of his daily lying is most troubling.
1
Now, isn't this a kick in the head? We are asking, relying on mental professionals to evaluate our President, and at the same time, asking non professionals (ourselves), to reveal and identify relatives, neighbors, friends and supposedly weird people who might have access to a gun, and report them to the police who will aggressively confront and perhaps incarcerate people on the basis they might kill innocent victims, strictly on subjective, non professional opinions.
Congratulations Media! And to our governing bodies, POX on you!!!!
3
Trump is cleary unfit as president, and as he performs in the spotlight, behind the curtain those he enables are dismantling the republic. Counter that cancer by voting against the GOP but demand that the Democrats don’t blow the chance by requiring them to offer workable solutions. No more talk without the walk.
8
Trump is your crazy old Uncle Buck.
Everyone has one.
Doesn't care about his racist utterances. Doesn't care about blurting out any conspiratorial thought that comes into his head. Doesn't mind displaying his neurosis created by a lifetime of building grievances. Getting caught out in his many logic contradictions doesn't seem to stop him from carrying right on.
So, you kind of brush it off with one of those "I can pick my friends but I can't pick my relatives" kind of sighs, knowing you only have to see him at Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Your crazy Uncle Buck, however, doesn't usually get elected to be President of the United States.
That's where we are.
7
He may be nuts. But that's not important, in the sense that his being nuts is the cause all our problems. No, that honor belongs to the cowardly and sleazy members of the Republican party. Without them he wouldn't exist. So if you want a cure for the country's problems, and the world's greatest narcissist, get rid of the Republicans. Without them he will shrivel up and blow away.
14
" If you believe Donald Trump represents a danger to the country and the world, you can take action to rein in his power."
All that writing to get to this conclusion? Wow, impressive.
That was the line used on Reagan, and it will be as effective against Trump.
Let's see, a possible bi-partisan DACA solution, a booming stock market, tax reform, wages going higher while unemployment goes lower, minority unemployment at its lowest level in 50 years, ISIS destroyed, Jerusalem recognized as Israel's capital despite the best efforts of the anti-Semitic wing of my own Democratic Party and the biased UN, energy pipelines being built, illegal immigration at its lowest level in decades, Iranian protesters recognized by the WH although the NYT declares that a bad thing cause hardliners might be emboldened but the Times never declared that in the case of Tianneman Square, no Russian collusion story although my Dems are on the hunt for Reds, federal bureaucracies trimmed and anti-growth regulations reduced, the Obamacare mandates repealed so young people are no longer penalized for not buying what they don't want or need, North Korea coming to the table and China pressuring them to do so, and I don't have to listen to Hillary every day for years on end.
Yup, ole Trump sure is nuts.
I'll take four more years of that.
7
Please check back in with us when we hit the next recession which will be courtesy of Trump and co. Trump inherited a good economy and he and his enablers are doing everything they can to trash it for 99% of us.
2
Don't bother reading all of it - just read the last paragraph and act accordingly - GO VOTE!!!
3
Mr. Trump may not fit a diagnosis of psychosis but psychiatrists deal with other forms of mental problems such as personality disorders, narcissism among them. Some narcissists dig themselves into holes and may occasionally do destructive things. Are the editors seriously suggesting that psychiatrists not share their knowledge?
4
If Trump were to be examined by a panel of mental health experts and found to have a diagnosable mental illness, it might create enough pressure on congressional Republicans to act.
In the absence or a diagnosis, Republicans can simply continue to ignore the observations of Trump's unfitness for office. No rational person can make an honest argument that Trump is fit to be president. The list of disqualifying characteristics and behaviors would exceed the character limit of this comment. Those who have chosen to support Trump have also chosen to ignore his obvious unfitness. Without something tangible to use as evidence to support Trump's removal, we're left with a thorughly corrupt political party blindly following a thoroughly corrupt and profoundly intellectually challenged (aka stupid) president.
We're seeing undeniable evidence that this country's government does not and can not work if one of its to major political parties has completely given up on democracy, good government, and acting in the best interests of the country.
4
this article sidesteps the fact that America was attacked. Trump is the weapon of our long time enemy, Russia. they wanted him elected, they got him elected, because his sheer foolishness is the perfect weapon to weaken America from the inside out. Russia doesn't need to launch missiles, fire bullets, or even sabre rattle. they just need an internet connection.
He's not a president; he's a saboteur.
11
And who in democratic party you see as capable to mobilize the people to vote?
5
Sure, we can vote out the unhinged, incompetent, corrupt, greedy, traitors to democracy. As long as we haven't be thrown off the voter rolls, been given erroneous information regarding our poll site, made it next to impossible to register if we're poor and live in a red state, or be blown up or under martial law by voting day!
7
Democrats need to get over it. Trump brings to the office a business acumen that we are not use to. Although I voted for him, I agree his personality is a bit boorish. BUT I was very willing to take that in exchange for something new in the WH. I think the fact that he has stirred things up is fantastic. This whole NK fear is a joke...In the 60s the Russian had far more 'missiles' that could hit the US to the point we would duck and cover under our desk....The whole NK scare is just more political posturing. However, remember who STARTED the whole NK problem.......Ummm.....Bill Clinton...
2
Don't forget treason and bribery when it comes to impeachment. It is not just high crimes and misdemeanors.
6
I think this being blown out of proportion and makes one wonder if real, clinically proven mentally ill Americans could run for office. Which is not the case. Mr. Trump's leadership style is different, even unique. In that he is loud mouthed, brazen and openly vindictive to who so ever threatens his world view. I have seen several corporate control freaks and megalo maniacs exhibit worse behavior. Steve Jobs comes to mind almost immediately, but the comparison ends there. Mr. Trump should be measured on outcomes and what results he achieves, not his public behavior. He didn't create his vast business empire being a psycho.
10
No, trump was born a millionaire he didn't create anything except bankruptcies and non-payment to the people who worked for him and thousands of lawsuits which continue into the White House..Is he mad? The better question to ask is would you want your son to behave like him? He is not a good model for anything positive. In this sad violent world the last the we need is someone like trump in a position of power!
9
As a New Yorker (yes, I live in Colorado now), I have to state that you are quite wrong. He did indeed create a business empire; that's gone bankrupt multiple times, that has failed in part many more times (Trump Steaks, anyone), that was bankrolled by his father, that has been sued more times than you can count, by being not all there, shall we say.
Mr. Trump, as President of what is supposed to be the world's foremost Democratic Republic, most certainly should be and will be measured on his public behavior as he is the most recognizable public figure in the world and one whose public behavior could start a war with North Korea or Iran or good ness knows who else.
His daily behavior is part in parcel to his decided LACK of achievements. People who lie 2000 countable times in less than a year, tend to achieve little. People who demean our institutions, like our free press, who demean their political opponents, who don't even bother to understand the basic facts of what it is they are called upon to lead us through achieve only negative things and deserve to be called out for their behavior, their lack of common decency, their lies and their baseness. Trump is supposed to SERVE the people of the United States and our Constitution, not his own ego and the bank accounts of his family.
And, by the way I would love to know what you consider worse than comparing the size of your penis with the not altogether there leader of another nuclear power.
5
Vote. (That's the only word in this piece that counts.)
1
Trump is Norma Desmond descending the staircase, just like he descended the escalator in Trump Tower. He surrounds himself only with enablers like Max, who shower him with praise ('Exquisite leadership', uttered by Paul Ryan, is particularly odious.) The difference here is, unlike Max with Norma, none of them bear him one whit of love, or even admiration. When they have gotten what they want and flee with their ill-gotten gains, they will discard him.
5
All true, but WE can't discard him, at least not until 2020. In the meantime when all his yes men have fled with their ill-gotten gains and he is not fawned on any longer by the likes of said Paul Ryan, then he will have no where to turn but to himself (not that he doesn't do that already, but the Republicans have provided him with their playbook to follow) and he can "executive order" to his heart's content to our consternation
"If that fails, there’s always 2020."
Really? That's what you have to say? I am outraged that you do not have more outrage.
5
It's self-evident that Trump is a sociopath. He'll say anything to get what he wants without considering the effects on others.
I don't need a degree, only a smartphone to know.
2
Beginning with its appalling headline, this editorial is little more than an especially vicious ad hominem attack on Trump. It is not worthy of the Times. If someone wants to understand why so many Americans are disenchanted with the so-called elite media, all they need do is read this piece. Trump is a terrible president, arguably our worst, but the way to get him out of office is not by this kind of hit piece.
1
We need to vote out every last republican who is standing for election in November. Hate democrats? Fine, vote third party. But every last republican from dog catcher up must go. They are co-conspirators and as such unfit for any and every office. Vote, it is our last option before a blue state secession becomes necessary.
RESISTANCE IS NOT FUTILE!
4
Sad that we even have to have the discussion...
5
This is an excellent editorial....Mr. Trump is narcissistic but I cannot figure out whether it is caused by mental illness or just that he is an evil and selfish person who has always gotten his way by deceit and bigotry. I do know that he is a person who is embarrassing our country which either was a caring country (which I have always believed) or whether it was always a country of bigotry and greed. I know that I would never like to meet Mr. Trump but I do hope that I am proved wrong in my recent assessment of what our country has become.
2
The answer is simple. Yes. He's nuts. He's impetuous, spiteful, mean-spirited, writes crazy tweets, threatens war, bullies everyone within his sights, and lies all the time. And he's president. So the only thing anyone should do right now is get this guy out of office--the sooner the better. We have the 25th Amendment for a reason. Waiting for midterm elections is only giving this clown more time to wreck the United States and the world.
1
Of course he is. He's absolutely insane.
3
If Donald Trump were seriously mentally ill, he would have been recognized and treated a very long time ago and have an established psychiatric history. HIs behavior did not begin with his candidacy and will not end when he leaves office. His ranting and insults were on full view every day of his candidacy and in fact were advertised non stop by pretty much every media outlet on the planet. He is exactly the same person that was knowingly and freely elected, he has not changed one iota and it is most psychiatrically notable that it is US that are crazy if we think that he will.
23
Actually that's not quite true. Trump's speech has gotten more and more repetitive recently and his ranting more and more unhinged. He's been prone to blank stares or wandering off in the middle of things.
3
Trump is nuts but that's only one aspect of what his presence in the Oval Office means. He is the leader of the conservatives whether they take acceptance or not. His executive orders and secretive changes to policy are what will DESTROY this country...not his being NUTS.
2
The Bottom Line is; Donald J. Trump is clearly unfit to serve as President of the United States of America. The reasons for his behavior are only interesting. He is unfit.
Having said that....Trump has a serious mental disorder.
In answer to the question posed by the Headline of the Editorial:
Yes, Mr. Trump is nuts.
2
Regardless, the two things I cannot tolerate in trump are his lies and lack of decency, nuts I could handle.
2
I have as much faith in the "professional diagnosis" of certain individuals as "global warming." Now it is called "climate change" since we have had below zero weather in many parts of the country. I would postulate would you like a doctor made an assessment on cancer with never having physically examined you? I believe not. If he said you were fine and then realized you had stage four cancer a year later-oops! How many of us have called individuals crazy or insane? We bandy words around a bit too easily. Maybe these "professionals" should have their own credentials examined! Is possible that their own political beliefs are overshadowing their professional judgment or they are being influenced by others for compensation? Trump is certainly many things but "nuts"--I don't think so. Although born with the proverbial "silver spoon" in his mouth he made a billionaire out of himself from a millionaire. He gamed the system by being bankrupt several times. That is called business acumen in NYC real estate. Not condoning it- but "just the facts" as Joe Friday used to say!
1
Sorry the climate/weather thing is too tough for you.
The WORLD Briantee, not just Louisville, KY! Climate change is world-wide, not just your little neck of the woods. Perhaps those professionals you disdain might actually know more than you. Questioning their credentials or their political affiliations is deflection. "Gamed the system" is not business acumen. It is fraud.
2
One of the Constitutional requirements to be President is that the person swear an oath of office. Trump is incapable of swearing an oath.
His constant fabrication of narratives, his confusing stances and backtracking all point to the fact that he is not personally capable to swear an oath and then hold that oath above his self interest and as a guide to his actions.
Yes, he is unfit to hold this office.
He’s probably incapable of being sworn even to tell the truth, the whole truth . . .
3
For so long I’ve said the same thing!
Yes, an inveterate liar is incapable of taking an honest oath!
2
Thanks Washington Post for being the Washington Post. Taking the high road distinguishes you from Breitbart and WSJ op-ed pages.
However, the present and real danger of a 'crazy', mentally and emotionally incompetent president trumps any ethical issues associated with psychological evaluations by competent professionals who have not worked with Trump and who, if they had, could not report on findings.
Americans made uninformed psychological evaluations when they voted for Trump believing that his lies and antics were nothing more than campaign posturing. They ignored that we were dealing with a 70 year-old with clear patterns of dysfunctional behavior. Trump's loyal base and the vested interests who are playing him for their own advantage continue to ignore the manifest dangers. The harm is real, serious and puts America at risk. The 25th amendment and impeachment are dull instruments to protect the country.
So thanks Post for taking the high ground. The rest of us must occupy the other ground where a real battle is being waged to build a convincing case that Trump is a dangerous aberration whose emotional and mental limitations pose enormous risks. Proposing to take healthcare from 22 million poor to pay for a pro-rich tax reform doesn't prove disabling or disqualifying mental attributes. But adding the rest of Trump-lore and it provides a justifiable, convincing platform for winning over independents and moderate Republicans. Trump is crazy bad for America...!
2
Trump is not the "leader of the free world." This is, quite simply, because he has offended the free world and reduced America to a laughing-stock and a rogue state that no sane person would look to as a role model He has, and daily continues, to degrade our country and make it and the world less safe, less clean, more polluted. It will take a generation to undo the evil he has let loose - if it can be done at all.
6
TRUMP ELIOT
Not nuts, empty. And therefore shapeless. And into this empty shapelessness is stuffed his appetites. And because there is no shape to contain these appetites they are out of control and sprawling. Trump will chase after whatever appetite he has of the moment—financial, political, sexual, intellectual, or verbal—no matter how contradictory or hypocritical, just to satisfy the needs of the moment. Until it all diffuses away once again. He is one of T. S. Eliot’s Hollow Men—but at the top of the social ladder instead of the bottom. And that makes him dangerous. If he cannot see past his immediate need for satisfaction he cannot see the consequences of his actions.
The Hollow Man with political power is almost as dangerous as the Theocratic Fanatic with political power. Structurally, they may even be the same thing: hollowness that can never be filled by anything in the world that therefore cannot value anything in the world. What is not valued is disposable. If a sufficient threshold of stress and/or disillusionment is crossed, what is disposable will be disposed.
63 million people voted for this—the possibility of the Disposable World.
5
The antidote for Trump's craziness is our system of government, which has more fail-safe tools in it than any other system devised.
We are undergoing a test of that system now.
Trump appears to have a personality much like that of other authoritarians. We devised a political system as an antidote to monarchy, a type of authoritarianism.
We'll see if it works. The problem is time. Nuclear war can occur in a matter of minutes. No political system has been created to avoid a holocaust if the leader decides to activate a nuclear war. This is why psychiatrists are alarmed and have gone public.
So far, Trump demonstrates an ability to pull back from his most dangerous inclinations, after there is a public reaction to them. So keep on resisting.
2
I have more faith in diagnosing trump right now than I do in our form of government. Which has been shown to have loopholes big enough to drive a Trump through!
4
Indeed. This isn't 'politics'... It's Tyranny.
3
Even the Trumpsters know that Trump has a dysfunctional personality, but that's not the jugular question.
The relevant question is: "Is he dangerous?"
But lets look again at the Nuts query. This editorial does not get beyond sophistry because there is no mention of the relevant context.
So let me ask you straight-up: "Would you give nuclear weapons to an erratic person?" In Trump's case mental fitness must be evaluated within the context of nuclear weapons, and that immediately gives relevancy.
Given that context, attaining a clinical bar for dangerous dysfunction is not needed for extreme concern - the mere appearance of erratic behavior should do.
There is another difficulty. We don't understand what "nuclear war" means; reading or thinking the phrase is not living it.
So lets redefine it as something more real. When you see "nuclear war," think or imagine that everyone in your family gets burned alive and their flesh falls off.
Now that we've tightened up the context, we can properly answer the question.
1
That's all well and good, NYT, but should we really give up completely on a 25th Amendment argument when Trump may in fact be so unstable and dangerous as to threaten our collective ability to GET to the 2018 national elections, never mind 2020? It absolutely does matter that his behavior may reflect early onset dementia (which combined with an already narcissistic personality disorder and a lot of wealth and now power turns out to be a really bad combination). It's irresponsible of your board, frankly, to dismiss the reality of his possible mental and physical unfitness for office simply because (1) it's highly unlikely that the GOP-controlled Congress would ever act to protect our country from a madman and (2) the Trumpists and those completely brainwashed by the conservative media might never accept any action other than election that removed Trump from office. Just because it's highly unlikely doesn't make it pointless to discuss and pursue. Let's not forget that your pollsters were the ones telling us that Trump had, over the final 2-3 months of the 2016 election period, anywhere from 1%-5% chance of being elected. Look how that turned out.
1
Jeez, NYTimes, that the best ya got? Agreed, 25th and impeachment not happening now. Vote? Yeah, we'll vote, but that's 10 months away. That's enough time for Trump to bomb Nortk Korea many times, not to mention Australia or Canada, if he's so inclined. He doesn't realize nobody would be left to read all his "victorious" tweets. Meanwhile, he has plenty of time to inflict domestic damage, as well. Any provision for moving elections to, say, next week? Asking for a country.
4
If you read "The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump" by Dr. Bandy Lee and other mental health professionals, you'll see that they have various -- and fascinating -- opinions on Mr. Trump's mental state, based on extensive research that included hours of his TV footage over the years, reading his books, his voluminous tweets, his business dealings, his lawsuits, and observing him in action.
Back when "The Goldwater Rule" was thought up the internet didn't exist. These mental health professionals have way more than enough information to state their case, and take their duty to warn so seriously they have bravely put their careers and reputations on the line.
I'd like to think this terrible situation can be fixed by simply voting, but if these alarm bells and warnings we have been given allow Trump to cause a catastrophe, we will all have blood on our hands.
6
Trump has laid out his persona on a silver platter for all to behold, in awe or horror, as it may be.
1
The idea of a "mental health evaluation" is obviously written by someone who 1) has no idea what this means 2) has no idea how accurate such an evaluation is. As a neurologist I would like to say it is a ridiculous idea. It is purely subjective. That is, it is based primarily on answers voluntarily provided by a subject. For example q: "did you ever think about killing someone?" a: "no." Is the subject lying, being evasive, telling the truth? Does the subject know what will get him into trouble. Of course.
In dealing with litigation cases, we see many people who are gaming the test. When under surveillance these same subjects may show activities and thought patterns quite different from the test results themselves.
Back to square one on this idea!
2
We all make judgments about the mental health of others in our daily transactions.
1
In the listing of what a president should not do you leave out one extremely important thing they should do, that is, release their tax returns.
3
Trump's profound mental illnesses are just as relevant and newsworthy as (for one example) John McCain's physical illness, which was likewise widely reported.
True that the former's diagnosis may not have been disclosed publicly as in McCain's case--though to form a stricter analogue, I highly doubt the Times would write an editorial like this about a highly-prominent figure nearly unanimously believed to suffer from a debilitating physical illness (FDR excepted). This is a great example of the stigma of mental-illness which is clearly still not on parity with physical illness in terms of the way we are able to discuss it.
I'm not one for sensational gossip or unwarranted speculation, but when the president forms policy through the consumption of many daily hours of TV tabloids, is surrounded by staff forced to cajole him to acting rationally by means typically more suited to misbehaving children, and simply is so obviously not well, I think the cause is somewhat relevant even if he won't submit to much-needed evaluation and/or treatment.
4
The question is, why do we NOT need to hear from mental health professionals about the nature of the danger Trump presents to the world? We can only benefit from more qualified, credible people sounding the alarm, rather than less — or so we hope.
3
I agree with the editorial's point that we don't need a mental health diagnosis to see that Donald is unfit for the presidency. I also agree that voting in the 2020 election may be a way to unseat him, if all else fails before then. But if the Electoral College is still in place in 2020 we run the risk of ending up with the same result as in 2016: a president who lost the popular vote and managed to become president nonetheless. Is it possible to get rid of the Electoral College before 2020? Assuming we're not all a pile of radioactive ash by then, that's what I think we should be focusing on.
4
What a profound opportunity that pathetic present-hedonist Trump missed to really make a difference in US history. He could have transformed the presidency into a nationally-representative office by calling for a run-off election. Why even take office under the cloud he did?
Without a diagnosis we don't know what the future may hold. Determining the diagnosis gives an idea about the prognosis. Being forgetful and receiving the diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease means that the forgetfulness will worsen. Crazy behavior can be a response to external circumstances, stress, or drugs. It can also be the result of a psychotic disorder which means that reasoning with the individual will not help much unless medications are administered.
Anosognosia is a familiar psychiatric phenomenon: the patient is the last to know he is crazy.
2
45 setting a precedent is far worse, to the well being of our nation, than what he turned out to be.
The Trumpsters are emboldened, the unfit are running for Congressional seats, chanting “we support Trump all the way..”
That is the major damage.
We know who 45 is, unfit, yes, he is.
Vote them out in 2018 and be there in 2020 to really “Make America Exceptional again” and vote 45 out of office.
1
No, ed board. The good news is that personality disorders are diagnosed based on behavior, and this guy's been on display for decades. He clearly has narcissistic personality disorder. Go look up the DSM-IV criteria; it's a no-brainer. Many CEOs and high-level political officials skew towards this personality disorder, and towards sociopathy, so this is not surprising. But (1) his degree of the disorder is malignant, and (2) the public who votes has the right to know his diagnosis so they can decide whether we want someone essentially incapable of empathy in charge of our country. Our government works best via cooperation and shared vision. This guy throws bombs, distracts, deflects...if the public were more educated about mental illness, we'd make better decisions. There is no shame in a history of depression that's been quiet for 20 years. There is actual domestic and world danger with this degree of malignant narcissism in charge. Saying "just vote?" Not enough. Let's have a full mental status examination AND a psychiatric exam--done by a panel of three docs of varying political persuasions. It matters the world.
5
I didn't think anybody would ever make Nikita Khruschev look like a calm, thoughtful politician but in comparison to Trump he was a first rate world statesman.
2
We have had very suboptimal Presidents in the past. The saving thing was that usually they had very competent concerned and informed people who lead the way and kept them under control. (Jim Baker with Reagan). Trump has surrounded himself with the opposite, ill informed. ideologs who are programmed with an agenda that is destructive to our values, economy and democracy. They are on a mission to destroy government not improve it.
1
It doesn't take a weather man to know which way the wind blows. Psychologists have been used for all sort of political purposes. Psychiatrists say they have a duty to warn the public about serious threats to the nation and maybe they have learned from bad actors in their profession. But, let's remember that psychiatrists were willing to aid our government in developing torture techniques too [see link below]. Use of psychologists has its place but as we've seen, the application of psychology to justify an end is not without historical precedent and is hardly enough to unseat a president on its own.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-cia-torture-20170120-story.html
1
This piece makes a good point. It doesn't matter whether this president has a mental health condition. The bottom line is that in temperament, he is unfit for the job. He needs constant affirmation. He is insecure and impulsive. He cannot take criticism. He enjoys drama. None of these are the marks of a good leader. Yesterday, he stated that news anchors sent him praise for his "performance" during his meeting with members of Congress, and he claimed his good "performance" yielded high ratings for networks. The president doesn't seem to know that this is neither a drill nor a reality show that relies on advertising dollars and high ratings to stay on the air. It seems he still is unaware of the gravity and seriousness of being the head of a global super power. With one impulsive tweet or ill-thought policy decision, he can send the world into chaos. Instead of thinking about his actions and words, he relishes pandemonium.
4
Trump's behavior is the problem; we can't tell much about his mental health from afar. He is aggravating the serious divisions within our country. This year's election will be our last chance, just like Britain in May 1940. If the democrats field a top down effort, whether headed by a man or woman, turn out will be poor. The women's march offers a chance for a bottom up movement attending to many local needs, not just women's or minority rights. Winston Churchill was an authoritarian conservative, not what we need to stem the tide of 60s years of gains for the corporations and the rich.
It is clear to anyone who cares that Mr. Trump's impulsive Freudian tweet to the leader of North Korea as to the size of his nuclear button was the last straw.
Staffers who know Mr Trump complain he listens to the last person in the room. Americans got a look at that dangerous gambit a day ago during his meeting with senators at the white house.
He changed his mind each time to agree with the next senator who spoke on immigration. And clearly failed to grasp any of the concepts. Today he was confused about FISA surveillance, thinking it meant he'd be spied upon.
We will worry for 3 to 7 years who is the last person calling him at midnight.
And when Russia hacks our elections again, we'll regret not listening to the experts with a duty to warn.
Mr. Trump will be forced to leave when charges are levied for conspiracy against the United States, approving dealings with foreign agents in a sanctioned nation while campaigning for the presidency, and money laundering charges. Something his partners Manafort & Gates are charged with.
3
Trump's presidency so far as been such an object lesson in many different arenas. First, there's the awakening of understanding among folks about how billionaires operate their businesses - - not just Trump's businesses, but those of his wealthy cabinet members. Second, there's the growing understanding about how congressional Republicans operate in order to prop up and protect Trump despite his ineptitude. Third, there's the understanding that while Trump meets all the criteria for becoming an autocrat and with fascism warning bells going on all over, there is no real means in the Constitution for getting rid of him ahead of the next election.
1
In other words, judge him by his actions; who needs a label. Totally agree.
2
This then is an endorsement that puts Trump up there with the majority of past Presidents. Historically most Presidents have been called nuts by newspapers who are angered by the reigning national chief. This is standard fare for our political leaders.
1
Imprecise language is standard fodder to be fed to the US public. Imprecision of language has become a cancer in the US.
In the real world, we are all evolved social apes. All of us, in our vast diversity of ways, carry and embellish the learning and experience of the past into the future, in our Shakespearian struts across the stage of life. The "Book of Life" is software we have developed to live by. Our "souls" are software life structures into our brains.
The editorial should have said Vote If You Can Meander Your Way Through the Gerrymandered Landscape; we hope you can.
8
IF Trump's actions rise to the level of crimes or misdemeanors? Seems to me he's already flaunted several ethics rules regarding control of his eponymous business interests. He's assuredly already obstructed justice when it came to Comey and the obfuscation of details surrounding his campaign's meetings in Trump Tower with Russian agents. He lies repeatedly about things that have already been on the record and video recorded. I could go on, but that would be pointless.
Yes, impeachment is the right strategy. But it will never happen until the Democrats gain more seats in November.
3
The Democrats cannot win enough Senate seats in 2018 to convict Trump on an impeachment charge, even if they sweep Congress.
The problems are how much damage he will do, until he can be gotten out.
Secondarily, Trump and Trumpismo have destroyed our conservative party. I'm not a conservative -- but every democratic nation needs a rational, functional, conservative party.
The sad fact of the matter is that Trump is a crazed narcissistic authoritarian populist/caudillo ... he's a banana-republic El Lider running the richest nation in the world, with the most potent military, and the first-or-second most powerful nuclear force.
And worse yet, his personality-cult following is about 1/3 of the American electorate, and he's being reasonably successful at purging the GOP and turning it into the Trump party.
There's no exact model for Trump. Berlusconi, Peron and Pinochet come to mind ... as does the fear that Trump would like to be a Mussolini. But every one of these was smarter and evidently less disabled than Trump.
Trump will be hard to get rid of. And even when gone, Trumpismo or something like it will linger on ... who will the next Lider of his people be?
5
Don't entirely accept the pretext of the article; Trump's not crazy enough to invoke the 25th. He is certainly wacky and unstable enough; only the Repub congress wants to keep him there.
It would be far better for the U.S. to remove him from office with impeachment or the 25th. Voting him out of office may be the best solution by being most likely, but to use the Constitution to can his sorry self would do wonders to our self respect and that of the rest of the World.
Nothing would boost the confidence of our allies more than this.
4
As a PhD clinical psychologist/psychoanalyst I have for some time attempted to respectfully disagree with those who have pursued the argument of mental fitness. I regard those efforts as misguided at best. American citizens are the ones who appraise fitness for office by voting. We can and should join political parties and campaign for competent, just, informed, well reasoned and compassionate politicians who actually represent us and our best interests and who fight for us, the citizens they represent, not campaign donors with special interests inimical to the well being of most Americans. My hope is that we can remove Republicans from office who support our President. He is profoundly inadequate, errant, immoral, unstable, self serving, deceitful, arrogant, dishonest and perhaps even traitorous. He appears to have turned our Nation over to those who are a clear and present danger to democracy while undermining the integrity, sustainability and boundaries of our Nation. Republicans should pay dearly for their cynical, self serving, traitorous misconduct. Trump AND the Republicans should be removed from the halls of governance. They have created chaos through their destruction of the basic functions of democratic governance. In truth, Trump is not the problem. It is the voters who elected him hoping selfishly to gain for themselves while destroying the Nation for whom our sons and daughters continue to give their lives. VOTE THEM ALL OUT INCLUDING TRUMP!
14
"As the psychiatrist Allen Frances told The Times: “You can’t say enough about how incompetent and unqualified he is to be leader of the free world. But that does not make him mentally ill.”"
Well, perhaps Trump is incompetent, but if so, he is effectively managing to dismantle the "progressive" edifice built by Barack Obama and his the liberal wing of the Democratic party. The economy and employment is rolling along at near historic levels. He has effectively changed the narrative on immigration from the passive acceptance of illegal immigration among much of the general public to a point where even impassioned liberals like Kamala Harris in the nation's leading illegal immigration state is now agreeing that border security is a paramount priority. On Immigration policy the left has now been reduced to scrambling just to protect the status of DACA migrants.
The list goes on, and the left is only now coming to the realization of what Trump has been doing to them while they threw their year-long tantrum.
Whether these things are good or bad for America remains to be seen, but what should be apparent is that Donald Trump, unlike his predecessors, came into office intending to actually do the things he promised to do. He has been remarkable successful in doing so, and those who call him incompetent are deluding themselves, to their own detriment.
2
Destruction isn’t particularly difficult. It’s the only thing he’s capable of.
2
I agree. As a human being I can see Mr. Trump is unfit. I can see he is a miserable human being. I can see he was a corrupt businessman. I can see that he and his family are treating the presidency as a "once-in-a-lifetime money making opportunity."
Yes, voting is the most important thing.
However, because so much is at stake right now, here and around the world, we must pursue impeachment, however unlikely it is.
By the letter of the law, the Electoral College is supposed to flag such candidates. The 25th was intended for candidates whose condition declines while in office.
7
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Throw in classic narcissism and addiction to money for a frightening witches brew.
We and our truly elected representatives must resist the callous, blatant, shrugged dismissal of this little king, his bitter exclusion of any higher purpose to advance the cause of real world betterment, of justice for the victim, for rendered aid to the refugee, for interceding with needed protection for the threatened. We now see organized forces baldly seeking power and enrichment at our national expense. Who will aggressively counter the new night riders of hooded revenge when the first protester becomes the latest strange fruit of hate? You will, in your reawakening and in your resolute defense of all that you hold dear. It is becoming daily more evident that the generation now in the workforce will soon find the missing ingredient of their lifetime experience forcefully added: political activism. Talk, organize, vote.
4
Thoughtful editorial, that makes valid points! But, there's something missing; This President is still back in the Junior High School yard! (Oh, right, he only went to private schools! As someone who has taught in all venues, the private yards have their crude, obnoxious bullies too!) However, back in the day. when someone in those settings was acting out, there would always be an honorable one, or few, who would call the crass types out! Unfortunately, we have a Congress that doesn't act to stabilize, or be a balance of power, which is its constitutional duty! Plus our President has a significant amount in our population, who continue to cheer him on in the schoolyard! And a few from that schoolyard group. Mnuchin. Pruitt, and Zinke are in his Cabinet! And though not part of the Cabinet, who can leave out Miller, Pai, and Sanders?!This year, and 2020!!!
2
If Mueller can access Trump's tax returns and look closely at his financial dealings the House of Trump will collapse on top of Trump himself and we will be rid of this dangerous buffoon and his enablers including the members of Congress who have tried to derail the investigation.
8
Trump is now Norma Desmond in 'Sunset Boulevard'. His cabinet and all the Republicans who praise him for his...'exquisite leadership' (Ryan)...are all Max. The difference is, they don't love him. They are using him to get what THEY want. When he is no longer useful, they will discard him like an apple core.
4
And what about voter suppression? How about gerrymandering?
When one considers voter suppression, be it a new version of poll taxes, or purging legitimate voters from voter rolls, or eliminating early voting or registration, the elimination of true legislative districts I have come to the conclusion Trump is right. The system is rigged but not by the "deep state" but by the Republican party. A bunch of oath breaking dishonorable people who need to be purged from our government.
6
The Republican Party's main goal is to move money from the pockets of the American people, into the pockets of the 1%. This isn't the party of Lincoln or Reagan, it's the party of Marie Antoinette. R.I.P. USA.
5
"In November, you can help elect members of Congress who will fight Mr. Trump’s most dangerous behaviors. If that fails, there’s always 2020."
2020 is too long to wait. In less than 1 year DT and his acolytes have already done incalculable damage to this country's standing in the world, and each passing day produces a new horror. We are watching the failure of our constitution to protect liberal democracy when a president with dictatorial intent sits in the oval office..
5
If any thing the Trup phnomenon display the utter faith of thre America. Party system in the totalincjeremce and cottadictory basic claims wuth both parties whatever is more “salable “at the time
What I find more formative of the American political life is the absence of a genuine left party
That goes A long way in unveiling the hypocrisy of both parked and the absence of a Ovid Engaged combative working class
Perhaps it's the USA that's "nuts," and has allowed him into a seat of power? After all, a country is home to a significant minority of citizens who shrug off our past history of slavery and other forms of racism, is willing to ignore major social and economic disparities, believes that gun rights trump the death of schoolchildren, and denies the value of scientific knowledge. Pretty crazy, huh?
5
Sobering analysis of our dangerous predicament.
1
Turns out we can be thankful for the oppressive “deep administrative state” that Bannons nutty bunch kept honking about. It appears that the embedded state and federal bureaucracies seem to be ticking along nicely delivering goods and services in cooperation with the market system that is foundation of a modern western democracy. Far from a perfect system but I can start to see a survivable post-trump world with our overexposed presidential clown fading into a historical footnote.
"The chances of any of these steps being taken in today’s political environment are less than zero."
Please, NYT Editorial Board, do not let mathematics fall victim to passion! Chances (probabilities) can not be negative.
OK - not nuts. But then, time for another constitutional change--a vote of no confidence during term. We can't wait until 2021 to get rid of this danger.
1
Insanity is not the only approach to proving Trump’s incompetence. And, actually, his incompetence is documentable in so many ways.
But the GOP Congress is not going to act. If N Korea were goaded into obliterating Honolulu, LA and New York, while Trump made all of Korea, and parts of Japan, China and Siberia uninhabitable, the GOP would see it as fewer Democrats and a chaos to advance Oligarchy.
So, 2018 is a turning point. If the GOP is not turfed out, the next step will resemble the worst days of the Civil Rights movement.
4
We DID vote. We DID note the danger of people like Obama, and Clinton, and the NYTimes editorial board, to the well-being and prosperity and freedom of Americas. Trump, unlike them, respects the Constitution (the First and 2nd Amendments especially). That's why we voted as we did. And he is following through on what he "promised".
The proper response to people like the NYTimes editorial board is
to vote in more Republicans in November.
1
The problem is that when you say "we" voted for Trump, you're talking about a minority of voters. #bluetidalwave2018
3
Trump “respects the First Amendment”? By routinely threatening not only the press but individual citizens who express opinions he can’t handle? No president in history has ever behaved with more contempt for the constitutional right of freedom of expression. And despite his threats he’s never once identified even one actionable libel against him.
As horrifically un-American as this imposter “president” is, it’s even worse that so many Americans support his disgraceful assaults on our democracy, as long as it’s not happening directly to them. Sickening.
1
Maybe not insane as described in law as not having little to no appreciation for the criminality or severity of his acts, but there is little doubt that "Donald" has behavioral health issues and/or highly questionable ethics/morality. His behavior and alleged TV preferences (Loving to watch Gorillas fight) are interesting to say the least. His gravitation to racist white groups and soft peddling their actions gives great pause. He likes fascist style, strong leaders who violate human rights in their countries, while seemly caring little for our Constitution is a strong concern. This along with his alleged readings of Mien Kampf and verbal attacks on everyone from immigrants to Hispanic judges should signal that serious issues lie below the surface. His liking to be pleased and catered to along with staff removing any "Bad News" from his daily reports, plus an inability to read or listen at length indicates that he is most likely an ADD sufferer. Know a lot people that routinely stay up most of the night and rant? So, there it is. In the future the simplest and correct approach to protect our Country should be that both Parties agree to require financial vetting, and both a physical and mental evaluation in order to run as a Party member. That is do able and doesn't require Constitutional amendments. But, does require that both Parties start acting like mature and responsible adults.
November 2018: Democratic majorities elected in House and Senate; House impeaches Trump, Senate convicts, Trump removed, Pence elevated to president, House then impeaches Pence, Senate convicts, Pence removed, Democratic Speaker of the House elevated to president.
End of story. Make it so.
3
I agree.
This has to be about us now.
Whether mad or sane, Trump is what happens when we stop paying attention to what is important and what we value about being human. He is a daily reminder that we live in a world which has neglected compassion, wisdom humility and self awareness and promoted conceit, scapegoating, tribalism and false truths. Trump is what happens when we deny our humanity and confuse privilege with justifiable reward, and when we forget that we are all of one small planet, whose resources are finite.
With every act of contempt and every boast and every lie Trump helps us to see all of this a little clearer. If we escape without catastrophe he will have done us all a huge favour.
70
“We are the ones we are waiting for!”
Let the Times follow this wise advice. We need forums for discussion of exactly what is important. And how to get ourselves back on track. That should include what needs to happen in order to fix our governing.
Can the Times not report on what systems of government research has shown to be more stable and which ones, like a presidential system have been shown to be less stable?
If we are to endure as a nation, we must refound ourselves. Following principles like the writer above has outlined.
5
This election CLEARLY shows we need an Amendment to our Constitution that eliminates our antiquated Electoral College. Any person who runs for the presidency in the future MUST also submit to a psych exam along with the standard physical exam that is already taken.
Our country is supposed to be so modern. When it comes to politics, we are stuck in the dark ages. There is no reason, other than the elites who control the money supply and special interests, for us to continue with our two party system. We know our political system is NOT working for the people, lol! The country is not happy with the candidates presented. The Congress is full of lifers who are earning a paycheck and marking time, rather than working for US. It is time to re-think our system, scrap it, and come up with something new. How about an open party system, and only citizens are allowed to make political contributions to candidates? NO LOBBYING Congress!! Boy, wouldn't that change things in our nation's capital?
I can dream, can't I?
73
Trump blew so many opportunities to demonstrate something of merit it boggles the mind. Even if he has suggested and lost a run-off election, he would have won credit for a great act of courage.
1
We are stuck in the dark ages in more ways than one.
As scientific progress continues, we stay with political and economic systems that were designed for the 1780s when the Constitution was written; the Industrial Revolution followed in the next century and we are still stuck in the economic system that forced on us. We could include the education system in all of this; both the K-12 and the advanced education.
Just look at any of these systems and the results we see today. I don't have to elaborate. think of the Congress of the United States; the electoral college; our public schools and the charter school nonsense; our medical care system and the horrid medical insurance programs; the absence of government medical care; the incredible wealth spread in the country, the breakup of unions, the poverty, the ignorance of the media and its control by the elite; the huge difference in our country and other western countries in vacation and leisure time; the control of elections by the wealthy; the corrupt campaign finance system; the elite/wealthy able to buy off votes thus giving them as many votes as they want; a weak minimum wage, the absence of a minimum income to everyone - an idea whose time has come; the corruption seen in "globalization" and "free-trade agreements;" dangerous nuclear weapons and denial of those as well as climate change .............
You add yours. There must be 100 more. We are out of date and the country and world is in big trouble.
5
No, it doesn't. Doing away with the electoral college and taking power away from the states is a fantasy that's never going to happen. And even if it did, I don't think it would be too hard for another Trump to get a lousy 48% like Hillary in an election with turnout under 60%. You live in Michigan! 10,000 votes could have gone a long way, that's less than a third of the seats at Tiger Stadium. Hillary's supporters need to stop blaming the system. Both sides knew and agreed to the rules of the contest. Only Trump bothered to follow them. She was an awful candidate who ran an awful campaign. If she'd spent 1/10th the time reaching out to working people in Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania that she spent mucking up to her Wall Street patrons in the Hamptons, she could have beaten this guy. The Democrats rigged the nomination for her and she still couldn't win. She blew it. You blew it. Do better next time. Get a more honest candidate, and get off your couch and persuade people to vote.
1
This editorial's recommendations are plausible, but there is more to the possibilities of the 25th Amendment than it suggests. As Representative Jackie Speier, who has invoked the 25th, has noted, if Pence and a majority of the Cabinet were to communicate to Congressional leaders that Trump is unfit, and insisted on it even if Trump disagreed, members of Congress would have significant political cover to vote to remove him (especially now that they've gotten their tax bill). None of Trump's cabinet or Pence will ever have to worry about employment, so they don't have that much to lose if they were to come to the view, putting country first, that Trump is unfit.
And just to nudge the naysayers a bit further, let's add this: In addition to notifying Congressional leaders of Trump's unfitness, what if the most respected people around Trump - Mattis, McMaster, Kelly (even though the latter two aren't technically in the Cabinet) as well as, say, Mnuchin, Tillerson, and Sessions, also announced that they would resign en masse once suitable replacements are confirmed? Again, think of the political cover that would give members of Congress to vote against Trump.
It's probably a longshot, but stranger things have happened, and I agree with those readers' comments that don't simply accept that we can and must wait until 2018 or 2020 to flush Trump out of our system. There is far too much more damage he could yet inflict.
3
Donald Trump finds solace in hyperbole because he discovers there what at heart and in mind he lacks. Consequently, his language is largely compensatory with little or no foundation in reality. This tendency to grandiosity is amply described in Freud's "defense mechanisms of the ego" which, as a group, are remarkably applicable to the president.
This is a well-executed piece in terms of emphasizing what matters: Trump's ultimate behavior, regardless of its cause, and voting.
Nevertheless, I take some issue with the notion that we should ignore psychiatric knowledge in favor of saying, "I can see a problem; why understand more deeply?" There's nothing wrong with seeing scales and gills on an animal, and calling it a fish. Similarly, we recognize the textbook symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder in Pres. Trump's public behavior. To say so is not to grasp at straws in the hopes that he has an illness; it is to apply psychiatric standards to observed reality.
This does, also, have some relevance. Diagnoses are predictive. The Times need not be surprised, as it has been by the past year, by Pres. Trump's behavior. Frankly, everything he has done has been predictable if one assumes that he has NPD, along with some degree of concomitant antisocial personality disorder. Government officials can predict how Mr. Trump will react and act accordingly (they already do - praising him before saying anything of substance). Editorials can stop musing over his mental status or complaining about the last shocking thing he did, and go back to a more "normal" state of affairs: estimating what will happen or suggesting courses of action.
The utility of a diagnosis is that it reduces Mr. Trump's behavior to a known quantity, rather than an unhinged mystery. (Perhaps still unhinged, but not a mystery.)
2
Excuse me, but why are you even bothering to explore this question in a main NY Times editorial? It is not the wrong question and is germane to concerns about our country. It is a critical question, among several others, about this frightful Presidency.
Trump's mental health is quite clearly compromised and to say this should not be a main issue to look at is what is wrong with this article.
While I agree that invoking the 25th amendment is highly unlikely, this is because of the enabling, obstructionist Republicans - their aim to protect this psychologically impaired President is in itself traitorous. If they were anywhere near reasonable or concerned about our country rather than their party, political power and greed, they would do so immediately. Trump needs to be removed from office before he does drastic damage - we all know this is looming. This is not a Happy New Year.
3
All Presidential candidates should be required to take a psychological profile like the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory. It's given to people in sensitive positions such as police, prison guards, etc. Why not for someone aspiring to be the most powerful person in the world?
2
Voting and organizing makes sense, but there are other solutions. First, boycott Trump. His family is clearly using political office to make money. The public should do all they can to stop this by shunning anything associated with their companies. Second, support small business and avoid big business, unless you know that (a) they are paying their employees a living wage (when possible), (b) they are paying their fair share of taxes, or (c) you have no other choices. I am distressed to see how my fellow CEOs are perverting our economic and political system to try to satisfy their insatiable greed and lust for power. We as consumers can stop that by voting with our pocketbook.
3
Dear New York Times Editorial Board,
Thank you for this editorial. Thank you especially for calling on all citizens to get up, go out to the polls and exercise our only power, that of the ballot.
Now, in preparation for November 2018, and to continue to encourage a large turnout, will you please pursue your reporting on states whose policies and laws either encourage or suppress ballot access and voter friendly precincts.
Those states that make voting easy should be applauded. Oregon comes to mind. Those that attempt to restrict voting should be called out. Like, oh, Kansas for example.
4
What is most disturbing for me, 76 years old, is the "wrecking ball" this guy and his appointed cronies have taken to our country will never be corrected in my lifetime. Let's hope the mid terms will bring some brakes to his madness but even if he is driven out of office far too much destruction has already taken place. Some have concerns about the debt left to the next generation but they have far more important things to fix and maintain.
2
I believe it is you, the editorial board, who have stated and then completely glossed over the point of acertaining Trump's mental health status. With lives at stake, with nuclear war on the line, NONE of us should have to wait 300 days for a mid-term election nor (God forbid) another 2.5 years in order to correct the problem. As you've written, the actual problem at the moment is"...Republicans in Congress, who are behaving less like members of a coequal branch with oversight power than like co-conspirators of a man they know is unfit to govern." For as long as Republicans in Congress can play their blindfolded game -- that Trump's dangerous instability is "just his way" --
they continue unimpeded. The desire for an actual diagnosis is a desire to stop cover-ups, excuses, collaboration, and collusion, a desire for an unassailable fact, that will put an end to this sheer insanity before we find ourselves obliterated in a nuclear war. It is not too much to ask.
3
My Trump Countdown clock says we have 1104 days left to get people to become active and vote. I agree with the author on this. But, now that we all know Trump's weird, scary personality, why do people still support someone like this who is so erratic and unpredictable when he has the power to destroy our way of life...
2
i appreciate the emphasis, but there is no such thing as a chance that is less than zero. zero chance = no chance.
My take on this from afar is that now the Dems need to forget about trashing the child president! Rather they need to get their act together and start the race for victory in 2018 and 2020. Get a real leader who can galvanise the electorate to get out and vote for Dems. A clearly defined policy, credible candidates and a campaign that will enjoy broad support from the electorate. Advertising and letter writing to the press works well here, as humans are human it will no doubt work in the USA. Forget the older candidates, the population is split between older retired folk and those in the 30 plus age group, that is where the best candidates are to be found.
1
I think there is a bona fide question as to whether Trump's mental instability impairs his ability to function as President. If you analyze his actions you can see that virtually every step he takes is for self protection .
He has a constant need to boost his fragile ego boosting his ratings with his "base" by stoking their anti-immigrant bigotry with his wall obsession (without considering viable border security options and constructive immigration policies); his tax and deregulation policies conveniently serve his wealth; his interpretation of conflict of interest and nepotism norms and rules insulate his business and family from scrutiny; he wishes to control the Justice Department to deflect scrutiny for his business practices; as FISA needs re authorization his concern that he was wired tapped or unmasked. His paranoiac need for self protection dictates the self interested policies he pursues. His self obsession dictates his foreign policy which seems linked to the pecuniary interests of his family's business interests, ignoring political implications.
The 25th Amendment may reach a triggering point if a family member is charged by Mueller. Trump's facade as acting as President may then entirely devolve into defense of a threat against his existence.
Trump, a bear of little brain, thinks he is safe if he is stable and can accuse psychiatrists of unethical diagnosis, though unethical diagnosis is not the same as incorrect diagnosis. Trump’s stability is not a defense. The nature of Trump’s stability is the nation's problem. What unethical psychiatrists do with their time is a problem their profession ignores. That profession’s problem did not commence with our president and will not end as he shuffles. Unethical psychiatrists are not a defense for harm politicians cause. Unethical psychiatrists divert Americans, exemplified by GOP legislators, willing to divert focus from other problems they should be resolving.
As the 11th/12th century astronomer, astrologer, physician, philosopher, mathematician... and poet, Omar Khayyam once said: "Be happy for this moment. This moment is your life."
Salvation from this troubled presidency exists in this moment in the form of friendly, non-confrontational dialogue between you and your neighbors, your friends, your relatives. It starts with asking what they are afraid of, since it's fear that drives people to act, and vote, in ways that are in actuality counter to their best interest. That is especially true with people who have historically had a larger share of the national pie than others and are feeling marginalized that they have to finally have to share.
And not to nitpick, but it seems in context, the question mark for the statement: "Who knows?" in the 5th paragraph should more appropriately be a period or exclamation mark since the statement is rhetorical in nature and not a question. Of course, experts interpret this differently, so, who knows.
I agree. Vote to change the congressional membership to ensure that our proper checks and balances are reinstituted.
“The best solution is the simplest: Vote, and organize others to register and to vote.”
We tried that. Fully 2.8 million more of us, or two full percentage points more of the electorate, voted against this insane tyrant.
We tried voting. We resoundingly voted against Trump. The people rejected him. The system ignored the vote and put him in office anyway.
Never before has a president lost the popular vote by such a huge margin. I ask you: by what margin must we win for the will of the people to prevail? 5 percent? Ten?
A blade of prairie grass in North Dakota has more representation than a voter in California. Most entire red states have fewer people than one mid-sized CA city. The mayor of San Jose represents more people than the four senators of Wyoming & Montana combined. A city councilman of LA has more constituents than virtually any red state congressman.
If red state votes are worth 50 times our vote, why should we participate in such a skewed system and slanted playing field? Better for the Pacific States of America to secede.
The founders never envisioned such a concentration of population in a single state (1 out of every 8 Americans is Californian), nor the current tyranny of underpopulated states. With the electoral college, they were trying to level the playing field and avoid mob rule, not give a grotesque political advantage to the least successful and most backwards territories of the nation.
3
Human beings are rarely if ever able to see themselves objectively. Our fantasy self-images are built up of our past experiences, desire and fears. Trump's view of himself is founded on a series of wishes and illusions. It's up to we the voters to pay attention.
This editorial is important for 1) strongly encouraging active participation in elections and simply getting out and voting, and 2) defining the 25th Amendment and its significant limitations.
I do have a couple of questions about a potential requirement for a mental health evaluation of a presidential candidate: 1) when would it be? It seems like the grueling efforts and time required for primaries and running for president might slant any such evaluation, what are the parameters? and 2) who will be evaluating the mental health of the mental health evaluators - actuallyy not a trivial question.
I agree. Any negative evaluations will be attacked as "biased," and their validity will be thrown into question, maybe even challenged in court. It's a whole can of worms.
Clinical Psychologists seem to think so.
1
A minority of Americans elected a dolt through the electoral college loophole in our OUTDATED constitution and the dolt, upon his inauguration, did not become presidential but continued to be a spoiled undereducated rich kid who never did play well with other kids and who always relied upon his great wealth to survive his repeated wreckless behavior and all because groups of white men have no self respect and a pathetic need to discriminate against blacks, Latinos, Asians, gays or anyone who can read and actually understand the New Testament.
3
While sounding pretty impotent, at least the Times is almost completely open and honest at this point about what they are. No longer a news organization, largely just a wing of the Democratic Party.
So from your impartial vantage point in Canada, your conclusion is that all the stories about Russian interference in our election are the result of a massive liberal conspiracy between the media, the FBI, GPS Fusion and the other U.S. intelligence services. Mr. Trump's vast business empire, which he refuses to divest himself from, does not represent a conflict of interest. And he conducts himself with the dignity and restraint which the office demands. I got it.
Hear, hear!
Crazy isn't what will get him out of office. Nor is public stupidity and on-the-record misogyny. Mafia ties and money-laundering, now that's something with the kind of track record that even Congress (delicate Congress!) might get upset with.
3
Of course he is! And while you make very good arguments about how, ultimately, it is up to the electorate to make the change, here is the scary first paragraph from an article this morning demonstrating that Donny Trump is just an idiot, unqualified for middle management much less CIC:
President Trump contradicted his own White House and top national security officials on Thursday in a Twitter post that criticized an important surveillance law just as Congress began debating whether to approve it. But less than two hours later, the president appeared to reverse himself, telling lawmakers to “Get smart!”
Thats not leadership....thats lunacy in spades. He must be brought to heel by the voters loud and clear.
1
As I recall, there was never any question about President Obama's mental condition.
4
Only a professional can determine if "t" is nuts. By his actions and words he has proven that he is unfit for the highest office in the land. He flips and flops every day. His lies are too numerous to count. He has proven to be a bully, a racist, a wanna be authoritarian. He is so busy patting himself on the back, he won't stop and grasp what his job is all about. He thinks its all about him and acts like the CEO of his company. He cannot and will not take advise and those who disagree with him are belittled and called names. His rating are the lowest of any other President we've had. He thinks he is above the law. Is this what we want in the White House.
1
Well said and good. However, to let him stay in office till elections again is folly. Witness the aftermath caused to the world and societies after Hitler and Nero and other tyrants throughout history. He must go! I'm left wondering more about the state of mind of those who voted for him and his enablers (he displayed all the negatives in his disturbed personality 18 months before he was elected).
1
Um, you do realize all seven of your left-column editorials are obsessing about President Trump. Are you sure you want to broach the subject of voluntary mental health evaluations?
I don't care what anyone says: Malignant narcissism, of which Trump is a classic example, a text book case, fully meets the criteria of a mental disorder. But I agree that it may be beside the point. We need to get rid of Trump, not because he is mentally ill per se, but because he is a malicious and incompetent fool who compromises America's standing in the world every day he is in office.
4
Yes to answer the question. Diagnostically, I would give him multiple diagnoses. 1. Borderline Personality Disorder. 2. Narcissistic Personality Disorder. 3. Sociopath. There you have it.
1
I just read that a majority of voters in Oklahoma view Trump Positively. What does that say about Oklahoma voters? How did the nation become so irresponsible? Fox propaganda? Conservative talk radio obfuscation? Stupidity? All of the above?
2
Trump is as crazy and dumb as a fox. He is on the ultimate ego trip which is President of the USA. He got elected and will remain President because he is connected to the darkest elements of international wealth and power. While I don't disagree with the getting out to vote mantra, I feel it will do little in the face of such nefarious forces. Trump will be President for at least 3 more years and possibly more. Long enough to dismantle and reshape the country and the world like no one who came before.
1
Crazy and Nuts are not diagnoses. They are vernacular for inappropriate actions and speech. Trump is definitely nuts and crazy. Who among NYT readers would consider having Trump drive a car in Manhattan, pilot a plane, captain a boat? What American thinks that Trump could be a high school teacher? How about a girls summer camp director?
What’s really nuts is the neglect in the media. What frontline news organization called Trump’s “birther” campaign a racist attack? Or for that matter, what news organization has called the GOP “Southern Strategy” and the “War on drugs” racist?
Is failing to report and include the certain knowledge that Wahhabi Salafi beliefs are at the heart of Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Boka Haram not crazy? Isn’t our alliance with Saudi Arabia Nuts?
How is it normal for Americans to be denied single payer healthcare because “we have the best healthcare in the world”that money can buy, when the free world, first world all has better care for less money. Isn’t it nuts for the media to support this lie and fail to call it a lie?
Trump is embarrassing, shameful, a profound disgrace. It is insane for this paper and the entire media to ignore the influence that 140 million targeted FB “ads” had on voters, yet they all publish claims by GOP Trump supporters that no votes were changed by Russia. Why can’t anyone do a statistical analysis of that kind of advertising on 140 million people? Just not important? that’s nuts!
1
I would say he is brilliantly running the nation into the ground. He is complying with the terms of all the money he received from Shark Tank, Russian edition, and Mr. Wonderful Putin, as his new boss.
Who else is competent enough to distract everybody and stretch all media resources into chasing red herrings, lies and fabrications while he stuffs HIS government with government haters to actively destroy it from the inside.
Mueller is the last person alive who may actually know for sure what is going on and needs to be protected at all costs. I hope he has back up files of all the evidence he is gathering someplace out of reach from the Trumplicans - like some remote country or the moon.
Michael Shear of the NYT on CNN said that winners do not obsess about the losers. He is right and IS WHY trump obsesses about Hillary - he worries so much that he actually lost and someone will find out.
As trump and his ilk trashed Hillary with faux medical diagnosis, it is fair game to give him a dose of his own medicine. Indeed, the authors of "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump" are merely "profiling" POTUS just as the FBI profiles criminals and Putin does to compromise individuals like trump.
Hopefully Mueller will have psychiatrists and other mental health members present as they question of trump.
As for voting in 2018 and 2020, I am all for that, but I fear it will be too late and will be vomiting in 2018 and 2020 again instead.
2
I wonder why the NYT editors hope to gain by publishing this piece. It clearly will have no effect, and indeed does not even advocate a course of action to motivate readers. The piece itself only repeats views that further marginalize the Times.
I hope the Times will try to speak only what may benefit others, as Franklin said.
1
Richard, how strange to see the majority of polled Americans as people in denial. Maybe you're looking into a mirror?
No one who is "depressed" recognizing the "very stable genius" tRump is the back end of a horse has lost a single marble. The conned tv-addicts who thought he was the front end have obviously lost, bigly. ACA survives, Mexican funds for a "real tall wall" are invisible. DACA looks almost safe. NATO lives. NAFTA might. ISIS does. And "great jobs" do not.
And sorry, Richard, your false equivalence between Sen. Dr. Prof. Obama and Unlettered Orange Oaf Trumplestilskin shows what kind of thinking is out there in DeplorableVille. "Acceptance"? Only fools and misfits smile, grin, and accept the tRump in charge. Don't be one of the abettors. Check the pop vote and then the latest polls - Trumpolini's apologists were and still are losers, yuuugely. He blabs on and his party quits the House committee chairmanships? Your oaf is toast.
Reply to R. Luettgen
2
First, I wish people would stop blaming erratic behavior on mental illness. There are people struggling through real behavioral issues without listening every day to bad jokes and stupid comments about their medical condition.
Second, the reason Donald is incompetent and unpredictable hardly matters. That he is should cause us all concern.
Third, the election is coming up. Republicans seem to be betting on Donald. We can reasonably question putting your faith in a man under counter intelligence and criminal investigation for which we already have some pretty damning evidence.
So, the final question is for Republicans: party or country? Choose.
1
Will Trump be deemed nuts when he pushes his BIG red nuclear button to bloody North Korea's nose during the Olympics as McMaster wants to do?
1
Yes he is.
1
Right on!
Yes, Trump is nuts; nuts not because he lost control of his behavior from sources out of his control. He is nuts by choice; that is what makes him so malevolent and dangerous. Trump is a poor rick kid who never had a chance to grow up and become a responsible adult. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, raised by his racist father, and instruct how to steal money in real estate by cheating the system and anyone that came in contact with him. He is immature and insecure; his bullying is classic for a coward in high office, abusing his power just because he can. That is what makes him so dangerous; he is impulsive, vengeful, and always ready to shoot the messenger when being criticized about his unscrupulous behavior; Trump is clueless of what's going on, and he makes things up according to his whims, repeating himself at nauseum, and inviting applause by his ever-ready adulators and enablers (case in point, Lindsey Graham, a major hypocrite, initial 'rival' and lately an unprincipled, shameful, servile thug defending the indefensible). Trump has earned the title of "ugly American" (ignorant, arrogant, and stupid) for a reason. Nutty alright.
1
He is unqualified. It is absurd that he is in that job. Beyond that he is also not an adult operating with full faculties. And he is an ego maniac. If he is not crazy, our "leadership" is for allowing him to stay in office. The electoral college failed by putting this unfit man in office.
1
DOW 25K
GDP ~4%
Unemployment lowest in 17 years
Taxes cut
ISIS defeated
Job killing regs rolled back
Laws enforced
Criminal aliens deported
...and so on
No wonder the left hates him
2
All economic factors are upswings from Obama — just as the downswing in 2009 were factors from the foolishness of Bush 43. Taxes will be cut temporarily, and will go up just after the 2020 election — a cynical move if there ever was one. ISIS was on the way to being defeated through Putin’s efforts. What additional laws have been enforced? What criminals have been deported — the mass shooters we are ever more plagued with?
We hate him because we don’t want to be led by a con man. You love him because you don’t care.
3
You don't have to be crazy to be a jerk! The man is despicable in every manner and does not belong in the Oval Office. Hinting that he suffers from a mental disorder is like giving him a "Hall Pass". New Yorkers have been well aware of this dirtbag for years and tried to warn the uninitiated in the rest of the country who fell for this grifter's routine. The GOP establishment thought they could use Trump to their advantage and it is blowing up in their face. Since only Congress can initiate impeachment proceedings we need to run McConnell, Ryan and the rest of their ilk out of Congress before that can happen.
8
Gee.....
Over the 8 years of the Obama presidency I thought he was nuts. Raised taxes and increased regulations on businesses while the economy was stagnant, gave billions back to a known terrorist state, Iran AND totally alienated our ally, Israel. Put this country in more than any other President who has served this country....
1
Why did nearly 63 million Americans vote for a man they knew to be an ignorant lying sexual predator?
The United States is US. We get the government we deserve.
6
Sadly fewer than 40% of us deserve this excuse for a president.
3
NOT MY PRESIDENT is not crazy, rather he is a VILE man with no soul.
7
Wow, thank you New York Times editors. After our president's remarks about the size of his nuclear button, it's sooooo good to have your patronizing recommendation to trust the democratic process. I, for one, will sleep better at night in the hope of a better tomorrow.
1
Demented, insane, incapacitated? Does it really matter? Maybe, he's just a bad person. Whstever the reason it's all to obvious he's killing our country and needs to be removed.
5
So a mental exam will decide? What mental issues should disqualify? Being a sexual predator? Being a narcissist and liar? How about, a sociopath? This basically, excludes the last two presidents and Democratic candidate. It appears, and I may be imagining this, that people drawn to politics are already damaged goods. Choose your poison.
1
if you ask the wrong question the answer does not matter.
Rudolf Schlesinger
Trump is a lair and incompetent. his response to Puerto Rico
is a gross dereliction of duty. Period
5
Dr. Allen Frances, the expert who defined narcissism as a mental disorder, made the defining point here. Those with mental disorders are not ordinarily malicious. So to claim that Mr. Trump is mentally ill is an insult to those with true mental illness. Trump is certainly narcissistic and self-absorbed and a compulsive liar. It is, however, unfair to the mentally ill to call Trump mentally ill.
2
The liberal crying and screaming about Trump reminds me the taunting of grammar school kids.
In grammar school kids would tease other kids calling them stupid, fat, ugly, and mental cases. Seems like these kids have not changed.
These people see politicians the way others look at celebrities. In spite of a so far successful job as president, there is nothing Trump can do to satisfy these cry baby name callers.
1
Even if Trump were a genius, he's clearly been too lazy to learn anything about any issues or about how the government works (or to have memorized the lyrics to the national anthem or read the Constitution ...). Maybe read a briefing paper (or hit up Wikipedia, even) instead of golfing that extra hour? That alone renders him unfit for the office. He's even turned out not to be all that useful an idiot for the GOP. Because he neither understands nor cares, he ends up coming out for and against every side of an issue. He supports GOP policies until someone criticizes him for it and then he throws the party under the bus.
4
I think it is laudable to taunt the leaders of hostile nations and call them demeaning nicknames.
If they would have tried that during Hitler's rise would things have turned out worse?
When you are infinitely more powerful than a pipsqueak who has vowed to physically eliminate you and all your allies and he well knows your power; good tactics includes attempting to induce a miscalculation by provocation.
Let me say that this editorial is incredibly disingenuous and the headline, over the byline of the editorial board is incredibly troubling. The tone and tenor is like that of an ill formed blog post by a person who is frothing.
You sound deranged yourselves: making accusations by imputing them to others, sayinging how it is wrong to do and then proceeding to snidely and suggestively repeat the words of others. My god, you sound like Urquart in the Brit House of Cards "You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment"
Shame on you. There is no way a thinking person could possibly believe that your reporting on Trump or anything concerning his administration could be evenhanded or even accurate.
Shame.
1
Agreed. Trump is an ignorant, inept, childish little insecure weeble wooble. But diagnosis unless terminal, will not remove him from office. We're stuck with this cartoon until we can VOTE him out
3
Is Mr. Trump Nuts?
I think a better question is:
Is Mr. Trump elected by the people, of the people and for the people.
Answer: Yes.
Deductive Reasoning: American Democracy, based on all the people voting is now fatally flawed?
Remember: The guys who wrote the constitution could all speak and read Latin, Greek, and a few other languages. Many had law backgrounds from actual colleges. All of them had been through private schools. All of them had large land holdings. All of them could read. Most of them had been through apprenticeships.
Those guys put George Washington in place as President.
IF George Washington was running today, he would get blown away by Trump tweets and the same folks that elected Trump would make fun of his wooden teeth and quiet nature. Huh, huh, (slurp, slurp)....looka that guy. What a wussy!
Trump is not the problem. American style Democracy is the problem.
China knows this. Russia knows this.
Do you realize it?
7
Please, NYT, we all know he is. How about you start investigating his money laundering history?
8
Did the author read The Dangerous Case of DT? The mental health professionals didn't diagnose him. They came together out of grave concern for their country, their fellow citizens, the world, our allies, and others species. They spoke about what has been on view for DECADES.
Why should experts in the field of psychological observation and intervention not weigh in on what is clearly observable? And make recommendations because they are frightened and patriotic. So many didn't speak out about Hitler. This editorial basically says no matter what this dangerous unfit man does we just have to wait it out. Guess what? It might be too late then. Yes, we need to vote Democrat til we get him and all the complicit cowardly Repubs in Congress out, but is there NOTHING this incompetent child can do to be impeached?!?! I submit he's already likely done it and more. So why aren't the cowardly cruel Repubs rak8ng a stand to save our country and their supposed constituents? Shame on each and everyone that aids and abets this man child.
6
Is Mr. Trump Nuts? Yes, but such a question gives plain Nuts a bad name. How about instead we say: evil nuts; hate mongering nuts; ignorant nuts; malignant narcissistic personality nuts; despicable nuts; bigoted nuts; small minded nuts. These are much more accurate descriptions of Trumps nuts.
5
If Trump colluded with the Russian then he should go to prison.
7
A fundamentally bad human being makes for a fundamentally bad president, this is not a surprise. The true disaster lies with all those willing to look the other way for political expediency. His extensive personal flaws were always obvious, even to many of his eventual supporters. The only question for each of them is, were you just being an opportunist or are you simply that gullible?
9
It is not Trump who is not up to being president, it is the voters who elected him that are not up to being intelligent thoughtful voters. Education!!!!!!!!
8
President Trump’s behavior is exactly the same as it was since the day he descended on the Trump Tower escalator. His behavior is consistent and voters knew exactly what they were voting for. Trump won. Get over it.
Since November 9, there has been a campaign to overturn the election. Riots, recounts, threatening Electors, Emoluments Clause, nepotism, Russian Collusion, 25th Amendment and now pop psychology reminiscent of the Soviet Union where dissidents were declared mentally unfit. President Trump has been called authoritarian and a threat to democracy but it is the so called Resistance that is the real enemy. They are the ones who are trying to undermine and reverse an election. This week’s theme is “mentally unfit”. All of a sudden, anti Trump psychologist Bandi Lee of Yale pops out of nowhere is suddenly everywhere. The same stories and editorials are everywhere. The same phrases and story lines are repeated throughout the media at the same time. Iran, North Korea, post hurricane Puerto Rico and Houston and Yemen have vanished from the media in favor of CNN showing 6 person discussions about how many Diet Cokes the President drinks or Melania’s hand holding gestures.
I would hope that Americans of all political parties would get tired of this constant bias confirmation, being played by the media and treated like idiots.
1
The Editorial Board is correct in its assessment but not complete. My question is "What are you, the Board members, going to do?" Are you going to report every nonsense piece of drivel he Tweets? It is no secret he loves all of the free publicity his every utterance on Tweet receives. But, is every Tweet about Hillary newsworthy? Must every keystroke of "there is no collusion" be reported even if he says those words eight times in fewer than two minutes? This list could go on forever.
You might be doing all of us a favor by simply listing these nonsense quotes in small type on the bottom of the second to last page of the newspaper. Until you get them off of the Main News section, you will drive drive us as bonkers as is he. They simply aren't "news that is fit to print" any longer. In fact, they aren't even news.
3
I'm not medically credentialed to diagnose Trump. Nor, of course, have I personally examined him.
Still, I can state to reasonable degree of observational certainty that Trump:
is an incorrigible bigot,
he's mocked the disabled,
he's used a group of children, namely, The Boy Scouts of America, to denigrate a previous US President, ridicule a political rival, and lie about his performance as the President. Stated another way, he used a group of children to salve his political and personal insecurities
he lacks courage- anybody doubt the tougher-than-a-boiled-owl Hillary would have, if she wanted to fire Comey, relished summoning him the Oval Office so she could do it face to face? Recall, Trump sent his bodyguard with a termination letter to FBI headquarters while Comey was 7 or 8 flyover states away.
And all of that is just off the top of my pointy head.
While, I agree with this editorial, I do question the sanity of an electorate that would vote for Trump. For the past few decades, he has shown us what he is and isn't.
4
We could drop the mental illness thing and instead require Trump to take a neurological exam. If he were to be diagnosed with the early stages of Alzheimer's he could be deemed incompetent. A neurological exam is a pretty black and white thing.
5
Sober and thoughtful. This is why I subscribe to the New York Times and not Breitbart. Thank you.
2
The conclusion of this editorial is spot on. The best and only sure way to relieve ourselves of the menace of Trump is to vote. Vote against every single member of the republican party in Congress, your state, and your local government. In 2020 do not vote for Trump. It doesn't matter if a dog is running against him. Don't vote for him again because if you think he's nuts now, wait till he's a lame duck.
2
To me, he's simply a New York businessman, now running through a different jungle of unbridled self interest, completely misfit to his position. It's ugly, despicable, but perhaps not crazy.
1
I think that the question that would elicit a strong affirmative response from a vast majority of the American people is: Are the Fake President's many disruptive and dangerous actions that he has taken thus far "nuts"? (i.e. contra our history, traditions, precedents, expectations, norms, and values)
Trump whines, it’s a Democratic witch hunt. But, everyone investigating Trump is republican.
-AG Sessions
-Acting AG Rosenstein
-#2 DOJ McCabe
-FBI Director Wray
-Special Investigator Mueller
Trumps own people despise him.
4
Most people are nuts. That is why we have Trump as president. But seriously, most people believe in magical things. They just believe it. That is why we have Trump as president.
1
Okay. Overlook the narcissism, venality, vulgarity, and overall childishness of the man.
It comes down to this: He is simply INTELLECTUALLY UNQUALIFIED for the position. Period.
6
Nuts or not, he's a danger to himself and others (mostly others).
3
Keeping Trump in office makes US mentally ill.
4
The Republicons' president is obviously mentally ill, but it will indeed take the American public voting for Democrats in November to save the country. I see a lot of articles blaming Dems for this and that, but it is the American voter who selects Republicons who is to blame for this disastrous reign.
3
What a laxist, disappointing and dangerous editorial. You are undermining the expertise of the psychiatric community who are sincerely, even desperately, concerned for the benefit of us all. You are asking us to use the vote and to WAIT until November 2018? With all of the damage that this monster has already done, you would like us to wait almost an entire year more? His (I mean Putin et al) goal is to destroy American from within and he is doing that everyday. We need him out NOW, it's urgent. I am actually stupefied at the your warrantless refutation of the 25th which was clearly designed for such a case, and your impotent suggestion that we solve this solely with politics.
2
Before you vote...think! How does his behaviour affect America's reputation as a democracy? I live next to you and like many of my friends we wake up every day wondering what kind of scary thing he is up to or saying next? He is creating anxiety everywhere...help the universe relax - he must go! VOTE.
4
The title should have been "You're nuts to waste bandwidth screaming about Trump's mental health". The title chosen was just more click bait.
There are so many real concrete issues to need attention, so much work that needs to be done on developing concrete policies on healthcare, immigration, taxation, infrastructure, economy - work that will not only only win the 2018 elections but means the new congress will get a running start. There is simply no time to waste on this insane bickering about mental cooties.
2
The GOP Congress' extraordinary attempts to delay, distract and divert in order to cover up for Trump is probably the most terrifying CRISIS in America today.
This GOP has placed our nation in grave danger by supporting Trump's incessant lies and ignoring the mountains of damning evidence of Russian co-conspiracy by Trump's campaign.
Now they are intentionally impeding the schedule of important committee interviews, publicly distorting the testimony of key witnesses, refusing to release non-classified testimony, and diverting attention by attacking a long time, highly respected US ally, Christopher Steele, (who was the ONLY person who actually did the "right thing" by reporting Russian interference to our FBI).
This despicable GOP has proven its craven willingness to undermine our nation just to promote it's party's xenophobic, racist, rich people first, agenda.
3
Rational explanation!
1
If this erratic, lying, bullying, bigoted narcissist were my child's school teacher, I and a bunch of other parents would go to the principal and demand that he be fired. If the principal supported him anyway, we would all go to the school board. We wouldn't wait for a team of psychiatrists to deem him mentally unfit. We would protect your children. In the same way, we need to protect America and the world. We need to fire Trump now. Take that nuclear button away from him. If that means impeachment, then impeach him. But if the Republicans remain negligent and support him, more of us must continue to protest loudly -- and vote vote, vote, vote. But I do hope we can rid ourselves of him sooner rather than later. There's too much at stake!
2
The artist Richard Prince claimed several years ago that Trump had settled a lawsuit in New York City for kicking someone's dog (an Irish setter).
That's basically all you need to know about Donald Trump. Trump hates and abuses animals.
Abusing animals is a marker for being a psychopath.
3
While pointing to what presidents should not do, those younger or with shorter memories will point out that pariah Bill, now an icon to many, shouldn't have had sexual relations with a yonmg intern in the Oval Office, lied about it, and been impeached. Really? Vince Foster? Rose Law Firm and Hillary? Nightly selling the Lincoln Bedroom, etc.?
Be careful when pointing fingers and not looking in mirrors.
Trump's victory says as much about the American electorate, the Electoral College, and widespread collective anguish and anger reflected in the last presidential election, the current occupant's undoubted personality disorder(s) notwithstanding.
Get your story straight.
This is the paper that assured its readers that Trump was not colluding with the Russians and that we should all be concerned about Clinton's emails... just before the election. No news organization, not Breitbart, not InfoWars, did more to make sure Trump got elected.
And still the executive editor of the paper retains his job.
So, in the end, who is really nuts? Trump or the executives of the Times?
(I say that both are.)
Trump is unqualified, unfit, and dangerous by any measure. When I went through my seminary training to become an ordained pastor I went through a three day psychological battery of tests and then interviews with a psychologist before I was matriculated into the ordination program. Good God, should the President of the United States have less scrutiny than a small town parish pastor who has the leadership of 200 people? This makes no sense. When this nightmare is over, sooner I pray than latter, I hope that i one change that can be made. All nominated candidates for president, and their chosen Vice President candidate, should be certified of sound mind.
My confusion is not so much the fact of a president who is so unfit and unable to lead, it is the thousands of Republicans who are so eager to cover for him, and benefit from his horrific leadership. Who are these people and how did they get elected? I find it revelatory that so many Republicans are retiring after this term. Passing the grotesque and cruel tax bill was their goal before they “retired” from public life to enjoy their ill gotten gains.
Vote!
2
NYT Editors, thanks for making Mr. Putin's Day with this editorial.
You could have written so much more about our GOP Congressional Members, where Profiles in Courage are sorely lacking. That is where the perfidy to the American People really lies.
What's nuts is putting Stephen Miller in forefront to spin Trump on State of the Union Jake Tapper. Miller all sanctimonious, citing 3 specific CNN mistakes, all corrected by CNN. "Imagine if Tapper had pivoted from CNN’s falsehoods to those of the president: He would have had a field day with nearly 2,000 false or misleading claims, according to The Post’s Fact Checker." That's Nuts.
(WP The depressing lesson of Jake Tapper v. Stephen Miller)
2
The Trump Doctrine is: Me, me, me. Trump is the poster boy for the mental illness known as extreme narcissism. Right now American democracy is being threatened by this coarse, vulgar and ignorant sexual predator. Trump's deliberate lies must be exposed for what they are over and over. We are witnessing inflammatory speech like that of Germany in the 1930's spewed from the mouth of a man who is charged with leadership but pursues racial hatred. What will it take to restore decency and respect to the highest office in our nation ? Remember that Trump is the Republican Party - they created him- and they must all be thrown from office for the sake of our democracy.
3
Robert Mueller: "A nation turns its lonely eyes to you ...."
4
Wow, finally. The NYT editorial board injects common sense into my colleagues' well-meaning but misguided grandstanding. Trump is a disaster, but it doesn't take a shrink to tell you that. Worse, psychiatric pronouncements normalize psychiatric critique of one's political adversaries, demean psychiatric evaluation of actual patients, and further stigmatize psychiatric diagnosis. All to make a facile political point? No thanks.
2
If the President is shown to be guilty of high crimes or misdemeanors, and the Republican defenders of the US Congress continue to shelter Mr. Trump, I guarantee that the response by the American public will not be civil.
Mr Trump and his defenders already have devolved our country to a banana republic. But they so far have not braced themselves for the ultimate result of the citizens' response to a banana republic. It will be ugly.
1
For anyone who still doesn't understand the way things are now, we are in a culture war! Emphasis on war! Trump is just the most in our face part of it.
Do you want to live in a country that does this to families: https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005611803/tps-el-salvador-immigra... or do you not? Do you think the government has a role in making sure people get a decent wage or not? Do you want to spend money on schools or on taxes to rich people? . . .
NYT editorial board - you got it correct. It's just numbers. Get more people who aren't like him and the Republicans out to vote!
I have zero confidence in the ability of most Americans to make effective decisions at the ballot box. If so, Trump would never have been elected in the first place. Nothing has changed, and the alt-right blathersphere is in full swing. The Trump echosphere says he's doing a great job, and they will continue to say so right up to the point that North Korea launches a nuclear strike on the US. Then it will be Hillary Clinton's fault. I think Americans are basically useless and stupid, and they deserve Trump. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
3
The real question isn't "Is Trump Crazy?" but rather "Will Enough Republicans Acknowledge that He's Crazy and Too Dangerous To Continue as President?"
Until that 2nd question's answer is "Yes", then Donald Trump could show up for the SOTU address starkers, having taken a large dose of an ED, and painted the relevant area red, white, and blue, and then demand that all illegal aliens be rounded up and shot, along with the 9th District Court, and Diane Weinstein, and that he was going to launch a nuclear attack on NK, and NOTHING would happen to stop him!
Yes, it's just that serious, and that crazy. Trevor Noah, sardonically pointed out that while Barack Obama was our first African-American President, Donald Trump is our first African President, in the mold of Robert Mugabe, Idi Amin, and Muamar Qadaffi--with all their great "qualities".
2
You cannot blame him. He did EVERYTHING possible to prove he is completely unqualified in personality and background for this job. But the GOP and the FSB (formerly known as KGB) did everything possible to force the Very Stable Genius into our White House no matter what American voters wanted.
2
There seems to be a bit more going on within trump's head that is quite concerning than just his 'impulsiveness, erratic, dishonest, etc' thinking! His view of how the recently TV covered meeting went is very concerning and I dare say delusional! Trump falsely claims he received many letters from news anchors congratulating him on one of the best meetings they ever saw ... it is one thing to make such false and silly claims, another though to ignore or disregard or maybe delude one's self into imagining others will believe this story! A rationale person would have to know that such claims can and will be easily be dispelled. So what is trump's thinking on this? What is he thinking on any number of other scenarios where there is far more at stake? It seems to me there well could be great concern here ... regardless of what you want to call it!
1
I have to disagree. Trump shows clear symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). Having a clear understanding of how this disorder manifests itself is vital to understanding not only Trump himself but our status as a nation (obviously affected by his daily interactions) and the the danger we might be in. Mental illness should be given MORE consideration.
1
Check his childhood home for lead paint content. It may also explain why he purses his lips so often while speaking with years of accumulated lead irritating his mouth, often causing him to wipe it off on attractive women. It makes perfect sense. Believe me.
1
The Times opines, "... there's always 2020." At this rate there won't be much of a country left to save in 2020.
1
Sorry, Editors. It does matter if the chief executive of the world's leading military and economic power is not only unprepared for office, dishonest, corrupt, and a bully, but also driven by pathology. Whether or not Trump can distinguish between his fantasies, delusions, fears, and reality could affect the lives, well-being and security of all Americans and the world. As he hears inner voices of rage and hatred, acting out can cause monstrous harm. As he struggles to satisfy an inner script of a savior for his resentful white base and rejects policies associated with Obama, other predecessors, and decades of tradition, his actions already bring much suffering to innocent victims. That Trump is "psycho" and not just a "moron" adds an extra dimension of horror and danger to the current situation. Yes, the right remedy may well be impeachment and removal from office after wholesale rejection of the enabling Republican brand in elections. But how vulnerable are American elections to manipulation with gerrymandering (e.g. the Virginia assembly even with a 10% margin in favor of Democrats) and the role of money (the Mercers and Kochs and other billionaires backing Republican stooges), electronic (Russian or other) hacking and black propaganda (Fox News, social media, Hannity, etc.), and possibly tampering with voting machines?
1
Yes, get to those polls in November. Take a 100 more with you!
1
Alabama showed us the way - turnout, turnout, turnout.
Tuesday, November 6th.
Mark your calendars now.
1
And coincidentally three congressional committees and DOJ (FBI and now Special Counsel) are suffering from the same disorder? Must be that fluoridated water.
Who cares if he is crazy? That’s just misdirection. Is crazy the new word for evil?
Because that is what is going on here. The man is evil. It’s simple.
2
Oh yeah, don't quibble about if he's crazy or not, just wait patiently to vote. If he happens to start a nuclear war before then, oh well... Whatever could we have possibly done??
In hindsight it will all be glaringly obvious, and completely too late. What a massive cop-out this is by the NY Times editorial board!
1
Is Mr. Trump Nuts?
I do not believe that Pres. Trump is a nutcase or a deranged mentally ill individual. He is not a politician, nor a comedian, but he is the president of the United States. Some predicted his presidency decades before he stepped foot into politics. He is there for a reason. He is a business man, and the White House is his second "APPRENTICE."
The more we talk about President Trump, the more popular ... We've been talking about the Trump, from his cabinet to irrelevant topics and issues. I won't be surprised if he ends up winning the election in 2020.
1
Amen vote We can best defeat the worst of this, the GOP by voting
45 despite all his bluster , is highly incompetent as he was in business having gone bankrupt multiple times His own father bought $3 milIn casino chips so he could pay bills
So vote in 2018 and let him fail spectacularly
Then d story the GOP @ the ballot box on every level even dog catcher
They all have gotten away with murder too long All of them
1
Writing as a person with mental health issues, (but not as a mental health professional), I think Trump is mentally ill. Everything about him cries lunatic. But I fear impeachment using the 25th Amendment or simply the man's actions as justification. I fear impeachment because it would leave America with Mike Pence, a man whose political ideology is far more insidious than his President.
I am so tired of seeing white people as a representation of our country. This cartoon is part of the problem. Maybe the Times could adopt a standard that their artwork represents the make-up of our country. I just read Charles Blows' column today and then came here. Interesting indeed.
1
Gee....
I thought Obama was nuts the 8 years he was in office....
Giving billions to Iran, a bonafide terrorist state. Distancing the U.S. from our staunchest ally... Israel. Raising taxes and piling on regulations applicable to the business sector and individual citizens, during the worst economic crisis since the great depression. Creating the largest amount of federal debt since this country was founded...
Thank goodness Trump was elected.
2
He's a climate change denier. That's enough to rule him unfit.
2
Seems the Times editorial board wrote this before Trump did an hour long meeting with Democrats and Republicans over immigration on national TV.
He was bold, assertive, and in control.
sorry times. Yet another fake narrative to get rid of Trump down the drain.
Russia and obstruction are both gone. ,
1
Okay, I’m coming to terms that Trump is crazy, stupid, evil, or all three, and we are stuck trying to thwart his dangerous behavior until the 2018 midterm elections. I’m having a harder time processing the mass collusion of our Republican Congress with this situation. I heard on late night comedy shows (I think it was that source) that Republicans have replaced their flag lapel pins with the presidential seal - only the president wears the flag pin. I’ve been scrutinizing news photos, and so far this appears to be true.
Why isn’t this troubling detail hammered in the mainstream news? Why do I learn the most important nuance of this crisis, only on the late night “comedy” shows? It might seem insignificant, but to me it’s an important sign of a hidden pact on our slide to fascism.
2
6000 thousand miles south of Washington is hard to undesrstand what is going on in America. A CEO of a large corporation, showing that kind of behavior, would have been fired one month after it took office.
2
I wake up every morning and thank God Mr. Trump beat Mrs. Clinton. I dismiss the editorial parts of your paper, because they are so simple and predictable. You are the one that is unbalanced. You do have pretty good business and sports sections. Press on Mr. President.
1
I doubt he is nuts. But is he a jerk? Absolutely. Not a day goes by it seems where he doesn't miss an opportunity to live up to the title. Has he always been a jerk? Depends on who you ask. His ex wives would probably say, "yes". His former employees who he fired? Same. World leaders? Yes. His own cabinet? In private for sure. Senators and Congressmen? For sure. The public? About 60%. Jerks can cause a much damage as crazy people so it doesn't matter does it?.
Yes he nuts. But not mentally ill. Anyone is nuts who wants to be the president of the United States. Also, The New York Times may also qualify as delusional, paranoid and "nuts" for the amount of time they dedicate to trying to unseat the sitting president who is presiding over an economic turnaround and tax cuts for 80 percent of earners. The extent of your negative coverage is certifiably insane. But keep trying though, because you know that without Trump, the media ratings would be tanking and your readership would be way down. You won't admit it, but you NEED Trump to be relevant anymore, that's what few will admit.
1
The problem isn't Mr Trump, it's the voters. Their will always be another strongman buffoon who wants to be president. There will always be another privileged idiot child of a wealthy politician. We need an educated electorate who knows not to vote for them. We need an electorate not hypnotized by social media who c an think critically about history and economics. Does anyone really think that is going to happen? The next president is probably going to be the richest person the average American thinks is entertaining enough to have a beer with or spend an hour watching on prime time tv. It might just as well be Oprah as whatever horror show the Republicans come up with next. God help us.
The American Psychiatric Association should include that a person who threatens to incinerate millions of innocents to prove that his “button is bigger” than is opponent’s should be diagnosed as mentally ill.
2
Trump isn't "nuts", he's an example of republicanism at its extreme.
YES, Trump is insane by any measure you wish to apply. Equally, he is evil. Nothing about him is rational, balanced, fair, compassionate or consistent. In short, he is sick and sorry to the core. On top of that, he is a yellow coward who fails to follow through on his promises and/or commitments.
Let's bury the Republican congress in November and shut down this cycle of madness which currently overshadows our nation.
1
Threatening another nation with nuclear holocaust isn't enough? Shows just how devalued we are as a nation. We have no standards anymore.
2
Well said - Vote, Vote, Vote!
Trump's behavior has enriched him. He has set in motion a tax cut that wildly enriches himself and gives him more avenues to play games with the IRS. He's using his office for business advantage. Kushner is working his Mideast peace initiative to enrich himself. Trump is all about being in your face with his antics. It lends itself to playing racist inclinations of his supporters.
1
Indeed. One does not have to be crazy to be utterly incompetent, But Americans just don't grasp the managerial skills required to run the government of the US. For sure no single person is likely to have all those skills, but a successful President will put together a team with the right sort of skills so that the laws of the US, created by Congress are Administered legally.
No you don't elect a president because he seems like someone you'd like to have a beer with or "liked what his daddy did" or someone who you feel is talking to you (lying to you actually) and understands what you want or was fun to watch on a reality TV show. Those are not qualifications for President of the United States.
The minor ground swell for Oprah for President is more of the same emotional American voter favoring someone we respect and admire for very good reason. Oprah has not any more demonstrated the skills to be President any more than Trump has. Being admirable or despicable has nothing to do with Presidential management skills. Being a vaunted "outsider" is almost a guarantee of a lack of those skills.
How about if we look to a first or second term US Senator with prior government and legal experience or let a budding candidate like Oprah demonstrate her government management skills as a Senator for 6 years first.
3
We had a first-term senator elected as president, and it did not turn out quite the way that his advocates thought it might. Both in foreign and domestic affairs, Obama's presidency was not to the advantage of our nation.
What we really need is the repeal of the 17th Amendment and go back to allowing the states legislatures to select people who have demonstrated the political abilities to navigate their way from "Citizen" to "Senator" though the hard work of politics and consensus building.
We have far too many in government who are incapable of forging the broad agreements across party lines that are needed of effective legislation to be created.
Governance "by press availability" is a foolish way to run a country.
1
As usual, lots of things have been impressively going on just over one spin of days.
One columnist evaluated Oprah in a scope of her power potency as an antithesis of *the* powerful politicians from different angles. Another drew the reader's attention to Oprah being (maybe alarmingly?) out of the dogma's scope. Other points out some topics are already old. There is an opinion suggesting the opponents of Mr. Trump admit Mr. Trump's cunning wit as an actuality.
Then here, Editors, as other columnists and op/ed-contributors have done, indicate the necessity of co-alliances in one cooperation to push forward the situation to be rectified through the series of electoral procedures. However, how much can the liberal policies be given away for this perspective? It is a paradox and dilemma which many decent voters for Republicans have to face again and again.
The opinion is not new. There truly needs to be a willingness of compromise and sacrifice in both parties to save the liberal democracy of America.
2
Offer Trump a deal he can't refuse--his kingdom for a wall.
Work to prevent future situations like our current one: www.fairvote.org
ranked-choice voting would keep people like Trump far from office, and allow independents like Nader/Sanders to run as such without threats and scare tactics from the major parties.
3
This wait and see approach to removing Trump is not helpful when we need relief from his dangerous incompetence right now.
As soon as Mueller's report comes out we should act quickly on his evidence to remove Trump from office, either by amendment or impeachment.
We Americans are famous for our Can Do approach to solving problems. Now, amidst this constitutional crisis, is the time for all of us to show We Can Do right now!
5
We hope for more from our leaders. Trump may be nuts, but because enough people were fed up with the logjam in Washington, or hated Hillary or the notion of women in power or people of color etc., that is who we got.
I don't worry so much about our standing in the world - other nations and their leaders have and will continue to step up - but I wonder about the strength of our own institutions (Congress, the Supreme Court, the press, the states), to step up and do the right thing.
2
Proving "crazy" and/or garnering support for the 25th Amendment distracts us and saps the Press's precious time, energy and effort from the real issue of identifying facts , publishing truth and educating the populace. Then the vote will lead the way to change.
2
It's the press that has been locked in this endless loop of declaring Trump insane.
Perhaps it is the press that needs some serious readjustment in their thinking...
Certainly the NY Times Editorial Board, not exactly the most conservative or reactionary body in the world, seems to think so...
Does anyone really believe that the pundits and the wannabe pundits in the press are going to think seriously about what he Editorial Board has to say?
Come now...be reasonable.
1
Every genius and larger than life type, say Steve Jobs if not Trump, is a bit nuts. There are very few if any "stable geniuses."
Just inquire about any of the country's top CEOs, movie producers, artists, etc and you'll find a lot of difficult traits.
At the other hand of the spectrum are the boring bureaucrats.
There are very few and far in between, and it was apparent in last elections.
A president needs to inspire and rouse the masses...
Here is where only Bernie and Trump excelled.
The Dems focus on lessons learned this time around and should focus on a better message and a more exciting messenger.
Stop being so condescending toward the will of the people, be more flexible and less neoliberal ideological.
They are no more ideological these days than Republicans who often sound like the voice of reason.
There's only one year left before the new primaries.
2
Voting is important. To get a more rational government, there probably needs to be a sharp left turn which will also yield to more moderate republicans that are electable in a more competitive environment of a non-fixed general election. The pandering to the crazies in the Tea Party and Freedom Caucus to people who believe in a biblical basis for non-science to people who want to drown government in a tea cup needs to end ...
One also hopes it will make thinking people more critical of celebrity or outside candidates. College educated voters who voted for Trump must be concerned with illiterate tweets, lack of consistent policy, terrible cabinet and judicial picks. But then again, the Republican anti-science posture should have turned people off years ago .. and did not. Fake news should not survive in an era of Wikipedia and Google .. look it up !
If there was one good lesson out of this election, it is that elections do matter. There is no way a democrat could or would enact all the crazy anti-environmental legislation or dismantle entitlements (welfare is already very diminished from the glory days of welfare queens) or appoint poorly qualified judges that are going to vote to take the country back 50 years or to give a non-needed tax cut to the rich or to deregulate the internet and financial advisers. Immigration seems to be a big issue with lots of fake news picturing poor people as the enemy of poor Americans who really don't want those jobs.
1
There are people in my life that I have met, and it’s the same question. Are they really needing to be sent to a psychiatric hospital ? No, probably not.
But I don’t want to be friends with them, or work with them, or have any human contact with them.
But there is bigger question question. How would I feel about living in a country where such a person could become President ?
Trump will eventually go away. But the people who voted for him are the bigger problem.
3
I think of Donald Trump as a political disease that exhibits terrible symptoms: tells lies rather than the truth; escalates aggression and turns allies into enemies; says one thing one minute and the opposite the next; is incapable of showing compassion; and refuses to acknowledge or take responsibility for his mistakes and the harm he is doing to our country.
But the Times is correct: Such behavior does not make Trump a certifiably crazy man, with a diagnosable mental illness.
The real problem is Trump is contagious and people around him as well as many citizens in remote regions of the country become infected with these same symptoms. Trump, has in fact infected most of the Republican Party with his disease.
Once upon a time, Republicans believed that politics was the art of compromise and human decency was essential as a moral value. Now look at them!
I think of Trump not as a medical disease but as a political disease--maybe like a virulent STD.
We try to do something about people who have STDs so they do not infect others. But a big problem is the GOP has contracted Trump's political disease and also has become incompetent, uncaring, prone to lying and deception, and doing harm rather than good.
While the GOP and Fox News still have a very bad case of the Trump political disease, many of our citizens are recovering & regaining their common sense. 43% had the disease in Jan. 2016; now only 32-35% are infected.
Here's to our political health in 2018! VOTE
2
This conservative has been advocating that people take their responsibility as citizens seriously and vote for decades.
How come it is the Democrats over the past decade or so that are having problems getting enough people to vote for them?
Do you really think that the votes would break differently if, say 80% of the people went to the polls?
The odds of that happening are about as remote as getting 80% of the eligible voters to the polls in the first place.
1
The Ed. Board needs to get on the couch if they think US politics should be turned over to the rent-a- shrinks.
Instead of this lunacy, why not suggest a few causes for the Dems that might be a winner.
Like the economy where going to the mat for working stiffs can win votes.
Dems should be having loud and obnoxious town hall meetings all over America on serious issues, but instead they just hope Trump will implode.
Elections have to be taken.
They rarely get given to the meek, the polite and the prudish.
1
Why isn't medical assessment of mental fitness a mandatory precursor for anyone who declares their candidacy for POTUS? At a minimum, measure a few basics that should be requirements for the job: stability under pressure, honesty, ability to set direction and lead others constructively. Many corporations utilize some type of assessment test for employees "fit" with their organization and for advancement into leadership roles. How could it be that this is not done for the highest-ranking person in our country?
2
Wrong question.
The right question is how did this man rise to the top of the Republican Party and why is the party enabling him in his madness?
(You could also ask why it took the media so long to get past the "He's good for our ratings" myopia while they were busy indulging in ritual Clinton abuse. Et tu, NY Times?)
Trump is just the public face of a far bigger problem: the GOP and the people behind them. Fix that threat (and they are a threat), and Trump becomes irrelevant.
4
Your argument has merit — but neglects one critical factor: Just as Christopher Steele felt that he needed to approach the FBI over his concern of a crime in progress, shouldn’t we also be doing everything possible — as soon as possible — to mitigate the day-to-day effects of what may well be an ongoing effort and/or possible conspiracy to undermine our democratic institutions as well as our status and influence around the world?
Shouldn’t we the people demand that Mueller & company present us with a status report on his investigation at the earliest possible date (without jeopardizing his ability to prosecute the case in the future) just as a DA might present a preliminary indictment when sufficient facts are available? And if there is sufficient evidence to support the charges of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, money laundering, illegal foreign influence over the election process, and other criminal activity, shouldn’t we be able to at least ask Congress and the courts to demand that Donald Trump cease and desist any activity that could potentially further his financial and political interests along with those of his possible co-conspirators, including the Russians?
3
A professional psychological evaluation of the president’s state of mind is as important as investigating, and proving , by lawyers, whether or not he’s committed a crime.
In fact, by now the effects of Trump’s alleged criminal activities during the campaign and early days of his presidency pale in compared to the damage he could potentially cause in the next year, even if the Democrats take the house, which is by no means a given. Waiting for 2020, let alone 2024, is unimaginable.
Every legal effort should be made to remove him from office as soon as possible.
3
What this analysis demonstrates to me is that the system is flawed, combined with the fact that following 9/11 the presidency itself acquired too much power, far more than the framers intended. Unchecked and unbalanced, the president has far too much power today. It is chilling to observe what is happening and accept the electronic ballot box, far from immune to wrong doing (quite apart from gerrymandering ) is our only and last resort to unseat an unfit and authoritarian president.
I am a physician, but it doesn't require a psychiatrist to make the diagnosis. He has narcissistic personality disorder.
4
Most people who run for the office of President of the United States have narcissistic personality disorder.
One needs only to turn and look objectively at Barack Obama and how thin skinned he was regarding legitimate criticism of his policies.
1
Whether Trump is crazy may be the wrong question politically, but it may be a perfectly valid question scientifically. If, for example, there is actual neurological damage, then this is a verifiable scientific question that is highly relevant to Trump’s capacity to remain in the job. Either way, this is one of those facts that does matter, whether we find it politically expedient or not. Speaking as a psychotherapist I concede that most diagnostic categories, such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, despite Herculean efforts, have not achieved the scientific gold standard—that is, there is no scientific consensus around neurobiological markers for the condition. But that makes the condition no less real and its consequences no less problematic. It may be that anyone with eyes can see that Trump is not fit for the job (except the tens of millions of people who seem not to see this). What the mental health profession can add is a clinical judgment based on decades of study. Trump is not merely unfit, he is unfit in a particular and well-studied way with understood risks and consequences. Whether or not this is a politically expedient thing to say, it is nevertheless a fact, and a fact that may have dire implications for all of us.
1
I'd rather not have to deal with Mike Pence as President. My belief is that we should let Trump serve out his term but shackle him later this year when we flip seats and take control of the House and hopefully the Senate too.
1
Your possible solutions are unreasonable. How about if we advise those living the California to wait for a while, and let the mudslides stop, or the fires to go out, or the drought to get better.
But fact is, your unreasonable solutions are all we have.
The Founding Fathers dropped the ball, I have to say. First, they gave us the electoral college, a peanut-butter-and-salami sandwich is there ever was one. Then they gave us essentially no qualifications for the office of President. This worked more-or-less OK until V.S.G. came along. Since we seem to be stuck with the electoral college, might this be time to consider a true Hail Mary and think about a constitutional amendment to add a few critical job qualifications to the presidency? A minimum of...four?...year of public service (military included) in a significant role? A demonstrated histoy of moral fortitude? I know: it'd be a real food flght. But it's a discussion that just might be worthy.
1
Constitutional amendment? Go for it.
But in the process, I would suggest that you do some research on the words "republic" and "federal" so as to more clearly understand the role that the government of the UNITED STATES of America actually is intended to have.
Look particularly at the Tenth Amendment which clearly and unequivocally states that all powers not enumerated as powers of the FEDERAL government are reserved for the states and the people.
1
"Impeachment would be a more direct and fitting approach ..........., But this path is similarly obstructed by Republicans in Congress, who are behaving less like members of a coequal branch with oversight power than like co-conspirators of a man they know is unfit to govern."
Thjs is precisely where your argument falls down, where the prior apparent logic turns to mush. The word "obstruct" is a telling choice, it reveals
the underlying purely political motivation behind the editorial. The fact that two political parties have different views on an issue does not mean the party whose view prevails is "obstructing" the other. Donald Trump was elected POTUS. He has the support of millions of Americans and a majority of both houses of congress, and even if his support falls below a majority from time to time, that does not mean there is support for impeachment. Those who support him or would refuse to support his impeachment have every right to do so. Respect for the electoral process and the right of elected officials to govern is the essence of democracy. A move to impeach Donald Trump under the current circumstances would trigger mass civil insurrection, a move to remove him from office on some theory of his unfitness to serve would be equated with treason, and these reactions would be justified. These things are not going to happen, nor should they happen.
You are correct that the solution to the problem, if there is one, lies in future elections, but that is about it.
1
If we had a mandatory universal voting requirement there would be no need to "get out the vote" because every citizen would have to vote, just as we have to register our cars or pay our taxes. We need to have candidates who speak to the needs of ordinary Americans and who believe that the 6,800 plus atomic bombs we have now is more than enough. Let's elect men and women who believe that we need armed forces, but not so many weapons of mass destruction that we can't afford to repair our crumbling infrastructure or help all of our citizens live healthy, productive lives.
It is shameful that our government is in the process of increasing the number of our weapons of mass destruction while, at the same time, reducing the annual budget of our Peace Corps by 40 percent. I believe things would be different if we all had a say in who our leaders were and what our priorities should be.
2
One very small quibble. You can't have probabilities less than zero. It would even be extremely difficult to prove that a probability was indeed zero. Still, I would agree that the probability of successfully invoking the 25th Amendment given what we know now is infinitesimal.
Given that, perhaps we should turn the discussion on its head. We all know that various forms of mental disturbance are common in the general population and even among "high-performing" people. So why do we invest so much power, especially war-making power, in any single human? Perhaps we need to constrain the power of the Presidency, or at least bolster the power of our system of checks and balances. Those institutional safeguards, under constant attack by the current President and his political party, need to be held to high standards of professionalism and safeguarded from partisan attacks. I don't care if Bannon wants to call this the "deep state". We need it.
1
Apparently, Russia continues to try and influence other nations' voting - so Mr. Mueller had best act quickly - before your 2018 elections. And if the Democrats regain majority in2018, despite Russian meddling, then they should use that majority to ensure that there is a mental examination of all candidates - not only the Presidential candidates, BEFORE they are allowed to put their names on any ballot. You could have weeded out quite a few GOP candidates had this been in place already, and the world not have been subjected to trump and his army of reprobates.
1
I’ve Learned to assess President Trump by the actions of his administration, not his words or tweets, and a lot of them I, surprisingly, find myself agreeing with.
1
I agree, and while he is clearly unfit for the job, he already was when he was voted in. It's arguable that some of his poor traits have worsened, but they are the same traits that were on full display during his candidacy. So, as much as I find the result of 2016 distasteful, it is what the voters decided, and if we go down the rabbit hole of arguing that elections are rigged or illegitimate, we are creating a long term danger to our democracy that is worse than the short term one we are trying to address.
Also, one quibble: requiring candidates to submit to a psychiatric exam opens up a Pandora's box of issues, and is not needed. Through the mainstream and social media, we know more about the candidates than we ever have. We don't really need more information. That is not the issue here.
1
". . .but why do we need to hear it from psychiatrists relying on their professional credentials?"
Because they are more qualified by virtue of their training and experience to assess dangerous individuals. That's why.
1
Trump has no respect for anything (civil norms, institutions, other people, consistency, truth, etc). It's him against the world - international or domestic problems, other leaders, even the weather. And his whole life he's been surrounded by sycophants. Puts me in mind of historical tyrants (some Russian czars, French monarchs, or Roman emperors).
1
"If that fails, there’s always 2020." Don't count on it.
For the love of Country let's not have any more ink or space or thought devoted to 2020 until we get through this year. This midterm election could be the most important election in our history and if republicans are not turned out of power and control of both houses of Congress our democracy is in grave danger.
The last two democrats to be elected president were both obstructed to such a degree that the only conclusion to draw is that republicans just don't care about such things as vote tallys and election results. You know, the stuff of democracy.
There are already whispers from the right that the 2020 election should be postponed until they can fix all the "illegal voting".
Remember that t rump ran on the idea of being emperor or dictator, "Only I can fix the many things wrong with America." Which, coincidentally only he could see.
I'm not sure about a test for candidates, but I think a test for voters is becoming a necessity. The first question I would ask: "Did you vote for t rump?" If the answer is yes that person is not qualified to vote again.
1
Since almost 2 centuries now, the Western decided to no longer merely criminalize violent and asocial behavior, but to also "medicalize" it.
Or rather: all violent and asocial behavior that isn't punished by law, is medicalized.
Trump's words and acts regularly exhibit violent and asocial behavior, so on the one hand his opponents try to depict him as a criminal who has to be punished (and at least fired), while on the other hand they try to depict him as being mentally ill and in urgent need of medical care.
I agree with the Times that for the moment, the basis for both is very thin.
There do are other types of approach possible here though.
Long before the West tried to invent a medicalized version of psychology, the East developed a pragmatical but systematic approach to psychological research, and Western science now almost daily proves how effective their research actually is.
From that perspective, people with violent and asocial behavior "are" neither criminal nor ill. They were simply not initiated in "the art of living" yet. They don't know what self-compassion means, and as a consequence, don't know what compassion towards others means either.
And of course, everybody knows at least a LITTLE bit how to practice this kind of art.
So all you could say, in the case of Trump and from this perspective, is that he didn't have the opportunity yet to learn how to cultivate wisdom. And then indeed he's best voted out and replaced by someone who was a bit luckier..
Excellent editorial!
While I am among those mental health professionals very concerned about this man’s behavior, what strikes me most is a characteristic he seems to share with many of his supporters: a lack of insight. A lack of curiosity about his own thoughts and behavior. A lack of concern for his cruelty, sadism, impulsivity, greed, selfishness and so on.
I agree with the Editorial Board that since the GOP Congress has put on blinders to these dangerous traits in a man sitting atop not just our nation but as a threat to the entire planet, we’ll have to be content with changing Congress this November.
But it’s not just Congress that needs to change. Unless we take a careful look at the loopholes in our Constitutional system - that have been exploited by the GOP in particular - we have not gone far enough.
Can we please have a national discussion about the problems of our presidential system? The ease with which a neophyte, self-obsessed, wanna be dictator mesmerized a portion of the electorate, appealing to dark motives and emotions? The dangerous manner in which cronies and sycophants in the White House and in Congress have fallen into line like mindless soldiers, making absurd and obsequious public statements of submission and near adoration for a man who behaves so little like a mature adult and so much like an evil agent bent on destruction of civil comity, justice, and norms of governing?
I call upon the Times and all of us to undertake this challenge!
5
Greed is the number one problem.
Everything that is going wrong with our country right now has greed at it’s root.
The recent tax “bill” is designed to help the people who wrote it at the expense of the country.
1
"Chances are less than zero" is incorrect. Probabilities go from zero to one.
"If that fails there's always 2020"... is a VERY BAD conclusion to an otherwise lucid analysis. Letting 45's Admistration and GOP Congress go on for another two years ONLY makes it WAY MUCH harder to expect a victory against them two years down the road.
Time IS of the essence.
"You can take action to rein in his power".., just DO IT NOW, ALREADY!
This article makes the same mistake that is most often made when talking about Mr. Trump's mental fitness: it assumes the only issue is his psychiatric profile. To anyone who works with elderly individuals with or at risk for age-related dementia, it is quite clear that this man is suffering from significant cognitive decline, with symptoms including disinhibition, perseveration, and memory deficits. This kind of cognitive decline interferes with normal day-to-day functioning in someone who doesn't have a high-stress, high-stakes job, let alone someone running the entire country. And the fact is, his cognitive functioning can be very easily and reliably assessed by any qualified neurologist. Unfortunately, we have not mandated cognitive testing for our elderly politicians, which in the current age of longevity seems a dire mistake, as evidenced by Mr. Trump. He, and other elderly politicians who are in cognitive decline, are putting us all at risk with their blind egos and inability to bow to the common sense notion that a sound and healthy mind should be a requirement for holding a position that involves making decisions that rule the lives of other people.
1
Also disturbing is that we the American people elected Mr. Trump in the first place.
3
No we didn’t!
The electoral college did!
1
Well actually we didn't, the outdated Electoral College did...
True.
We need to understand how their thinking works.
Some people apparently can’t spot a con artist.
Last night, thanks to my cats acting up, I got about 4 hours of sleep. Today, I am tongue tied, finding it hard to focus and a challenge to get my work done.
Trump brags about sleeping 3-4 hours a night. Perhaps sleep deprivation is part of his problem?
2
Yes--and the people who elevated, legitimized, voted and continue to support him are the real problem. Their parallel, delusional world--fully normalized thanks to mainstream media and a warped two-party political system tipped by gerrymandering--is on a collision course with reality.
3
" ... if Mr. Trump were found to have no diagnosable illness, he would be no more fit for the office he holds than he is today." Indeed. I have no formal training in psychology, but I would call it narcissistic and histrionic personality disorder just based on watching the man's behavior and reading the descriptions of those disorders. But semantics aside, Mr. Trump has never been and will never be fit to be POTUS.
1
Psychiatrists and psychologists are notoriously poor at predicting dangerousness of people such as prisoners up for parole or psychiatric patients for that matter. Actuarial models, based on client histories, including the severity and frequency of prior crimes are routinely more accurate. This article is right on point when it suggests that predicting how dangerous Trump is, is a matter of political judgment, not clinical, and mental health professionals should know better than to use their credentials to make specious claims. The risks we face are nuclear war, climate change, neglect of our poor, heartless treatment of undocumented immigrants, encouragement of xenophobia and racism, plus long term isolation from the community of nations, except as a supplier of their weaponry. These are mostly risks associated with policies and decision making, not aberrant behavior. Trump's flamboyant, narcissistic personality is what his supporters admire and what got him elected. His neglect of factual information and ego-driven decisions are a threat to the country, but they are empowered by the politicians who agree with his policies and help put them in place. To change the threat we need to change both Trump and the politicians who agree with his view of America.
3
Psychiatrists should stop cand. consider how much damage they are doing to their profession by making a diagnosis without examining the patient, even if he is Donald Trump. The ethics rules are clear.
I don't like the president and I don't agree with him but the real problem here is the GOP controlled congress that is happynto have Trump engage in violent and unhinged performance art to provide a distraction from the policies they are enacting.
1
I agree with the author that it would be very difficult on a political level to remove Mr. Trump from office considering the current environment. I'm not sure that most people want to wait until November to be given the opportunity to sway the balances in both Houses.
There is another way, and that is the current investigation into wrongdoing by the president and close advisors by the FBI's Robert Mueller. Given that lying to a FBI officer is a criminal offense, as well as the overwhelming evidence of obstruction of justice in the firing of James Comey, I would suspect that most people believe this to be the greatest prospect for ridding the White House of this madness.
3
Those who believe Trump is a dangerous man in the White House, of course, should organize and vote to restrain him. That is absurdly obvious. Unfortunately, it does not address the elephant in the room. The reality is he has us on the brink of nuclear war. Voting in 10 months in the midterm elections, or almost three years from now In the next presidential election, will be a meaningless, immoral response if there is even a limited exchange of nuclear weapons in the meantime that kills a million innocent civilians on both sides. That being a possibility, let me here say publicly we need to remove Trump from office, using the 25th Amendment, immediately. For me, there is no other moral choice.
The problem isn't Trump's unfitness to govern, it's REPUBLICANS' unfitness to govern.
There's indeed no way for us to know how mentally healthy a president is, but some other, much more urgent things do are perfectly known:
1. as a political novice and someone clearly not interested in policy, he seems to be willing to sign no matter what that Congress puts on his table or that his cabinet members ask him to sign, and
2. what the GOP Congress and those cabinet members are doing for the moment is most of the time not only not fact-based at all, it often even deliberately ignores proven facts in order to mainly serve the interests of their wealthy donors. And THAT corresponds perfectly to the very definition of being unfit to serve your country.
It's also what is already inflicting lasting damage, and for the moment everything indicates that with a different Republican in the White House, on this fundamental level things would be EXACTLY the same.
That Trump is simply an ignorant (but charismatic) clown, lacking the education to know how to behave in public, suits the GOP leadership VERY well, because while his Fox News tweets keep its base amused, they can loot and steal as much as they want. And now that Bannon has been sidelined, the danger of having conservatives turning against the GOPe is all but gone too.
So yes, in such a situation only voting can save the nation.
But that means getting progressives on board by explaining how high the stakes actually are ... !
1
Trump is just a symptom.
Our fundamental problem is a defective electorate.
Telling citizens to vote is futile if they don’t use their reasoning powers and learn relevant facts.
The goal must be an electorate that votes in their own enlightened self-interest.
That means in part moving away from team voting to issue based voting.
No one seems to even be considering that.
Bad times ahead.
One of Trump's greatest strengths is shoring up his base is TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) on the part of his political opponents.
Note: Didn't vote for and despise the man.
2
I say this as often as I can, including in comments to NYT articles.
He has Attention Deficit Disorder, hyperactivity and dyslexia. The excessive consumption of caffeinated drinks makes it worse. He can't hold a thought because of the ADD. He can't read because of the dyslexia. He is a narcissist control freak who isn't that intelligent and is poorly educated. He has surrounded himself with yes-people who keep telling him how pretty his new clothes are. Anyone who lives or works with someone like this knows exactly what is going on. I don't think he is mentally ill. I think he is the victim of his disorders and his environment, which largely consists of people just like him who have enabled him for 70 years.
2
If Trump had been subjected to a psychiatric evaluation before the election, no doubt he would have produced the same dubious results as his gastroenterologist Harold Borenstein who wrote in the results of his exam that he
"will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency” and that "his strength and physical stamina are extraordinary” and his “laboratory test results are astonishingly excellent.”
It's President Trump, not Mr. Trump. I find it astounding for this Editorial Board to criticize this man's grasp of reality while ignoring reality themselves. Like it or not, he's the President and the office, if not the man, deserves your respect.
This call to abandon concerns about the specific details of Trump's impairment is dangerous. Trump's repeated displays of his narcissism is not just a minor off-putting characteristic of this man. Many narcissists are people filled with boundless generalized rage, and they can quickly and easily lapse into sudden acts of violence. And presidents have the means to lash out violently against many people. Thus, advice to just postpone dealing with Trump's pathologies until he can be defeated in elections opens the door to disasters he might create while we wait to vote him out.
2
While many would like to ascribe Trump's erratic and explosively dangerous behavior to mental illness, this piece centers in on the real issue...what is going to be done with a president who is out of control and destroying the very institution he has sworn to protect? It doesn't matter if he is crazy or not. His destructive actions need to be stopped before he breaks our Republic beyond repair.
Mr Trump is less nutty than his critics are, who are completely and utterly obsessed with him. In comparison, he is the sane one. Mr Trump's personality was well known to his voters before the election, and he was elected because of policy positions that he held. He is unorthodox, but it is refreshing, an entertaining breath of fresh air. His critics were dumbfounded that he could possibly have won, and have incessantly tried to pin anything and everything on him, and are now questioning his stability, but it is not working, half of the country is not buying it at all, but nice try.
2
Amen. Don't complain. work to organize. Donate money, time and expertise. If you want to work today you find a phone banking operation reaching and registering voters right now. Go For IT!
2
The old saw goes..."you have to be crazy to want to be president". So that can't be a disqualifying criteria. Thank you NYT for this clear eyed view in the wake of all this hysteria.
1
Sorry, Times Board, you guys are utterly wrong on this. If Trump suffers from a clinical psychiatric condition then psychologists and physicians, but not necessarily politicians or journalists, can tell us that his mental instability may (inevitably, in the course of the disease: think dementia) change in certain ways and certain directions, with certain verifying symptoms, that laymen who deal with him in the halls of power would not be able to anticipate or correctly assess the meaning of as they interact with him. His boastful tendencies today may evolve into tendencies toward action tomorrow that doctors, but not senators, can anticipate. Not every problem is a moral problem susceptible to collective political solutions; sometimes a sick man is, to paraphrase Freud, just a sick man and needs to be handled in those terms...
Sure, vote. Get a Democratic Congress in 2018 to block Trump’s more destructive impulses, if not impeach him. But he still has the power to unilaterally launch nuclear weapons. How do you “vote” against that? And, if that Democratic Congress can’t pass legislation to remove first strike discretion from the president, who does what to stop him if Trump decides to lob a couple nukes into Pyongyang or Tehran?
In recent times only 25% of citizens have bothered to vote in American presidential elections. Real leadership would inspire a much greater turn out, so maybe it is the institution that is questionable here. The president is not nuts, he is a business man running the largest business in the world. The question should be when and where did we stop being a country?
44
Real citizens in a divided limited power Constitutional republic should be looking in the mirror and their own hearts and minds for inspiration. But neither brave honorable patriotic military service or humble humane empathetic community civil human rights service is expected or required from Americans.
Who is "we"? About 95% of blacks voted for Hillary in 2016. While 58% of whites voted Trump.
1
Nothing represents this better than the undoing of estate tax. The founders purposely meant to limit the amounts of wealth that can be inherited. It wasn't just because it is expedient to tax wealth. Bill Gates or the Mercers have enormous power now, but not their families, into centuries. Because that would exactly resemble the monarchies of Europe, which are exactly what America was meant to do away with. Now, instead of crazy King Ludwig and his sickly family, we are threatened with the possibility of young Baron, who has been silently shuttled around in the wings, to suddenly appear as the next Prince, or King.
2
The 25thAmendment offers a process for "what should happen if the president becomes clearly incapacitated." It seems not to prescribe for a president who was incapacitated the moment s/he acceded to the White House. For that another amendment is needed to deal with what happens when the American voting becomes incapacitated, or when the Constitution becomes so abused by human error that it is no longer capable of fulfilling its promise.
27
Are you suggesting a coup d'état by, say, the leaders of the Democratic Party?
That seems to be the logical extension of your remarks, Mr. LeBron.
2
Nonsense.
We have three separate co-equal branches of divided limited power Constitutional republic. You can not cure nor prevent African primate apes from their genetic quest for fat, sugar, salt, water, habitat, sex and kin by any means necessary including conflict and cooperation.
FDR was done in by Stalin. Trump is a lot dumber, incompetent, inexperienced, intemperate and insecure than FDR. While Putin is much shrewder and tougher than Stalin.
1
Why not lighten up a little, Mamba and Owl. There's far too little parody in paradise.
1
Trump is not insane. People with insanity can't distinguish between reality and fantasy, have hallucinations, visual and auditory, lack impulse control, have hypermania, morbid depression and paranoid ideation. Trump on the other hand has a personality trait disorder called extreme Narcissism wherein he believes the World revolves around him and no has the right to stand in his way. He is the Sun God. Given the levers of power all will be made to submit or else. This is the personality trait of the great dictators and it appears that is just where we're headed. Just today you could hear his former enemies like Rand Paul and Lindsey Graham shouting his praise and groveling when he is hell-bent on taking away rights, destroying checks and balances, arbitrary imprisonments and supplanting it with rule by edict, Truth becomes what he says it is. Such a leader destroys the institutions that could protect us, like the legislature and the courts and of course, a free press and then starts a War against ginned-up enemies. So this discussion about his severe mental illness, commonly called Psychosis, only clouds reality and allows hilm, very effectively, to proceed with his agenda, surrounded by yes-man and crowds screaming you are indeed the greatest, nothing you do is wrong. That's the dilemma. It can't be ended by Meds or Psychoanalysis but only by the people rising up, here by the ballot box before they're stuffed(rigged) Too late? It could be. It's all happened before.
5
Nice analysis, has the ring of truth to it, it is an epic situation, Shakespearean. Ultimately this is a test of the people of the United States and its institutions. It would be great to have faith, but it is not clear at this point that it will end well. On the other hand it is not clear that Trump's more outlandish positions and behavior are not producing positive results.
Yes...vote the whole corrupt, bigoted lot of them away. BUT....NYT is a year too late in strongly stating what has been the obvious since the day Trump announced his bid to become the most powerful corrupt, racist, greedy idiot in the world. You wasted your journalistic credibility on her emails.
8
Nuts like a fox.
2
It is one thing to have an incompetent megalomaniac as the chief executive of this nation. That he poses a danger to our wellbeing goes without question. Sure, we can argue till hell freezes over about Trump's psychological health but there is a greater sin being perpetrated on the American people.
The Congress of the United States, currently run by the Republican Party, has abdicated its own oath to protect and defend the Constitution, fully knowing that Trump has committed impeachable crimes and is manifestly unable to to his job.
This Republican Congress continues to stand by Trump, even to the degree that they once declared Trump the candidate "a kook," unfit, crazy, and the like. Trump the president, they tell us now, is an "exquisite" leader. And they do all this for 30 pieces of silver.
I ask, can anything be more cynical than that?
The last defense of our republic is in our own hands and in the ballot box. We simply must come out an vote in numbers never seen. The time for letting someone else *who will vote* determine our future must be over.
Contribute. Talk, Read. VOTE!
6
I am disgusted by the current GOP leadership and all its lackeys, cronies, sycophants!
It is an abomination as bad as the person in the White House to whom they bow down.
They are not fit to lead either! They are traitors by any verbal measure. And the Founders would have been horrified - as am I!
Thank you for saying this; I couldn’t agree more. Pursuing the 25th amendment is a waste of time, and the Republican congress has utterly failed in its duties and responsibilities to country. The voting booth is the way out of this mess and threat to democracy.
What will help at the voting booth is for the media to laser-focus on Trump’s criminality, rather than his instability or erraticism. Trump has plundered and pillaged everything he’s touched during his life. His m.o. is a transactional, zero-sum game, with the winner both taking all and destroying everything along the way. He is behaving, as President, the way he has behaved throughout his life: using every resource to enrich himself financially, regardless of the legality, and ethics and morality be damned.
It is reasonable to believe that few actions he takes as President detour from this style. He just can’t help himself. You can’t teach this old dog new tricks.
96
Trump’s personal problems have more to do with character disorder than mental illness. Simply stated, he is an awful human being. This has been apparent throughout his very public life. Trump’s vile character should also have been glaringly obvious to the electorate in 2016. The angry voters opted for a nasty villain to lead them and they got their wish.
7
Exactly right. It’s not possible to be a good president if one is not a good person to begin with. The 45th president was, thus, an abject failure the moment he announced his candidacy.
This is an irredeemable, toxic presidency. It started as a failure and we can only pray (and vote) to prevent it from becoming a cataclysm.
There will be three books in President Trump’s Presidential Library.
“The Art of Deal,” five million copies, or more if necessary to assure that his library is bigger than President Obama's.
“The Art of The Swindle” ghosted for him by Steve Bannon that relates the entire truth about Hillary Clinton as understood by President Trump and Steve Bannon, also five million copies.
“Fire and Fury” by Michael Wolff, one non-circulating copy kept in an underground locked safe that relates the entire truth about Donald Trump.
3
This OpEd attempts to invalidate the reasonable assumption that T is indeed, crackers. Like any pathology, a diagnosis of some type of mental illness is the observation of a collection of behaviors or symptoms. T exhibits poor impulse control, mood swings, ill temperament, bursts of anger, paranoia and host of other issues. Why is it impermissible to speculate about a diagnosis? If he had an observable physical malady, would you be as reticent to make a diagnosis? Psychology is no longer a new science. Stop stereotyping. If it quacks like a duck...
1
Finally, in the 13th month of this President’s reign, the Times let’s go of the hyperbole and focuses on how work as a democracy.
Vote indeed.
But who for? What do the Democrats stand for?
Anyone know?
"glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial
callousness and lack of empathy
poor behavioral controls
lack of realistic long-term goals
Impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships"
"People who are psychopathic prey ruthlessly on others using charm, deceit, violence or other methods that allow to get what they want."
-Hare Psychopathy Checklist
Above are 14 of the 20 traits from the checklist that aid in determining the psychopath of an individual.
Is Trump nuts? If not he sure is close.
4
Remove his gaggle of enabling, spineless sycophants; only then will we see this
void-of-integrity administration crumble.
3
"The problem lies in trying to locate the essence of Mr. Trump’s unfitness in the unknowable reaches of his mind..."
You're wrong.
The problem isn't Trump at all. He's an obvious buffoon and pathologically unreachable mind.
He's a classic serial abuser, smacking the country around a bit before, forced by pressure from somewhere in that forlorn White House, putting on his best suit and stumbling into an intensely choreographed, comically mishandled venue to deliver an "I"m sorry, baby, I love you, I'll never do it again" speech.
The best are when he's surrounded by his team and they plunge from placid non-involvement to panicked intervention, undisciplined snatching for control, desperate attempts to re-direct the Presidential rhetoric, veins pulsing, faces reddening.
A role admirably filled by Kevin McCarthy at the roleout of the latest Trump, soon beaten into submission by his Republican enablers.
Trump is nutters. But in a sad American way, not that charming British way labeled eccentric.
Trump is rich, though, and had the misfortune being formed by Roy Cohn; he's surrounded by hangers-on seeking to benefit from the cash Trump managed to squeeze from the world through parlay of his starting position and a refusal to give in to even the mildest hint of decency or morality.
Trump isn't our problem. It's McConnell and Ryan, now virtually the entire Republican party gone, as they enthusiastically have, full pirate: "Take what you can. Give nothing back."
4
It’s also the White House enablers whose daily sycophancy and obsequious behavior is an affront to our intelligence and a violation of their oaths to the Constitution!
1
Perhaps his genius could be persuaded to trade his kingdom for a wall.
Um, OK, but what if he actually is nuts? If not certain, it is far from unlikely, and November is a long ways away. What if, in addition to being incompetent and a candidate for electoral rejection in the usual fashion, he is actually delusional, paranoid and subject to uncontrollable, violent rage? Just because incompetence is sufficient that doesn't mean his mental health is irrelevant. If you can't answer the question in your headline, it is a relevant question.
3
Trump is not mentally ill; he's mentally unfit.
What's more pressing as a reason for removal from office, however, is that he is morally unfit, whether for public or private office.
1
The editorial is absolutely on target with what has to be done. I agree 100%.
I have, on my own, renamed the Grand Old Party and its initials G.O.P.
They have become, in my thoughts, the Gang Of Perpetrators.
And our POTUS is, without any doubt, a Terrestrial Embarrassment.
2
"They should not fire the F.B.I. director to derail an investigation into their own campaign’s possible collusion with a foreign government to swing the election"
Is it possible that it is the NYT which is equally mentally disordered? How could Russia "swing" an American election unless they exerted mind control over the voters? This "Russian collusion" is a bugbear for the NYT 365 days a year, including this editorial; it seems like sour grapes about their preferred candidate losing. And accusing the winner of mental craziness is a desperate move -- hopefully Trump can prove NYT wrong by implementing some better policies than he has so far.
I think Russia knows very well how to influence an election. You can call it mind control or propaganda which they have some experience with. It is pushing a narrative, whether there is any truth or not. Much in the same way that much of Fox News pushes a Republican narrative and calls it fair and balanced. They push it because it works. To say people are not influenced by propaganda - whether it is from “fake news”, fake Twitter accounts, or a “news” channel that will pass on conspiracy theories and call it news - is not grounded in reality.
It is a real problem.
"But this path is similarly obstructed by Republicans in Congress, who are behaving less like members of a coequal branch with oversight power than like co-conspirators of a man they know is unfit to govern."
In the same way Congress required anti-sexual harassment training for its members after the spate of sexual-assault accusations, they should mandate a training course on how to govern. To get the endorsement of Trump himself, call it: Genius Trump Schools Congress (Bigly).
Seminars might include: What Does the Constitution Say About Your Responsibilities?, What the Heck Does Coequal Mean Anyway?, Don't We Work for the President if He's of the Same Party?, How to Grow a Spine, How to Put Country Over Party, How to Invoke the 25th Amendment.
Each attendee would be given a free copy of Impeachment for Dummies (courtesy of the American People).
2
His behavior is "so far from what Americans expect?" Well, of what about two thirds of Americans expect. The remaining third still thinks this is some TV show with prize money for the MC and his family.
We Americans are always looking for a medical diagnosis to explain our problems. When I was a kid and did poorly in school, they labeled me an underachiever, but now I can be comforted with the thought that I was an unwitting victim of A.D.H.D. In the same vein, drug addiction, once thought to result from personal choice, is now a disease.
A diagnosis of mental illness gives the Donald a free pass. His execrable behavior isn't really his fault, he's just mentally ill, or his neurotic insecurities impel over-compensation for his inherent weaknesses with erratic, belligerent and mendacious behaviors.
Whatever is wrong with our president, he's a terrible role model for our children and a national embarrassment in the eyes of the world. A resounding electoral defeat for the Pres and his enablers is the only cure for our national dysphoria.
If there were no nuclear weapons ready to fire off I would be a lot less concerned. The fact that we have someone who is completely unfit who has that power is very concerning. There is nothing to be done except stymie him and and his agenda by a massive wave of voters in November, 2018. Vote ONLY DEMOCRATIC for everything from dogcatcher to senator and if there is a Democratic woman or a minority running, please vote for them. We need to get the old white SNORTS out of office and begin impeachment proceedings immediately.
2
Is completely the wrong question. The question is, are we, as a nation, collectively going nuts? Glued to our TV for 5 hours or more a day, living fake lives though social media, enthralled by celebrity while dismissive of intellectualism, only getting off the couch to get more junk food to feed our ravenous appetite for obesity and disease, what other conclusion could you reach? We are stark raving bonkers. No wonder Trump is President!
1
Of course he’s crazy. And I appreciate all the psychiatrists & book writers & pundants who are openly discussing it. Because about a year ago it was kindly called it “Donald being Donald”. At least now, the majority seems to acknowledge we have a crisis on our hand.
2
"The best solution is the simplest: Vote"
This works best when the 4th estate does its job and doesn't put its finger on the scale in favor of the candidate who provides the most entertainment, gets them the most viewers, greens up the bottom line.
COME ON NYT it's time to admit that you did not do your job in the last election... Clinton was FAR from a perfect candidate, but also FAR better than Trump.
3
My own father’s behavior was almost identical to Mr Trumps he was also a liar and thief teller of tall tales and a lover of conspiracies.
He made a horrible mess of everything and everyone he touched.
To meet him was to think he was a hale and hearty fellow. Almost drafted to run his Union. Valedictorian of his class and Hoarder of epic proportions. A drunk without a bottle.
The most dangerous place to be was out of the room.
To quote my ancient neighbor when she watched him one day said“You know he’s not right in the head” I could only say “ I know”
5
Trump insults the press all the time, and you keep covering him 24/7. Because ? It makes no sense. Stop filling the pages and the airwaves with Trump. Cover him in 1 sentence or 1 paragraph per day. Get on with talking about whats going on in the country, and what is important in the world. Trump coverage makes tons money for the media, but you all need take one for the team, to stop giving his every utterance any credence. We need information and the truth, not gossip media.
1
What most of the readers of and those who make comments in the NYT believe is that this is a most unfit, unqualified, and disgusting man who is putting us all in danger with his policies and behavior (not to mention driving US "crazy" with his every tweet and utterance).
This situation is further aggravated bu the repugnant politicians who are ignoring his behavior for their own purposes.
We are is a bind. The people who should act to remove him from office will not do it and are willing to attack those who would with lies and distortions, making them complicit and actually worse than Trump himself.
So the Editorial is correct in that the only sure way to help ourselves and our country and the hapless people who think he will benefit our country is to vote in every primary and election until rational politicians replace those who will not remove and replace Trump, or at least legislate to counteract his backwards agenda, until he is voted out of office.
May we all keep our own sanity until that happens.
2
First, we must realize we are not helpless. Second, we have to see the weakness of "we the people" in established procedures and go from there, finding ways to reduce the real danger, the cataclysmic potential of nuclear holocaust.
Here are concrete steps:
A leadership cadre, including patriotic, willing Republicans, should demand a meeting with Trump to read him the riot act.
A five person executive advisory council should be installed, with Trump's agreement, who would be required to agree unanimously before any major war or nuclear strike would take place. This power, extra-constitutional, would be ceded by Trump voluntarily to avoid having ALL of his future initiatives blocked.
Those who meet with Trump on this mission have to be prepared to force him, on pain of facing a completely failed presidency, into accepting the council and moderating his activities, like tweets.
Second, we need to move, right now, toward changing our Constitution so that never again can a minority vote getter will win the White House. There can be a trigger mechanism created whereby a candidate needs to win a set percentage of the vote plus E.C. votes to be installed.
Third, we must take steps to stop gerrymandering of House districts. The Senate needs to be more democratic, removing the requirement that each state gets 2 seats.
We have to defeat the power of big money in politics. This means either limiting contributions or stepping up with a massive fund greater than big money can mount.
2
Vote on November 6, 2018 but that you a presumably educated Times reader votes is not enough.
Find people who did not vote last time and find out why. Then help them vote this time.
Next Tuesday, when Träna svenska begins again at my Linköping Red Cross I am going to try this out with my colleagues and then one step further, with "nya svenskar" those from Somalia or Syria or Kurdistan, for example. Did they vote?
There is a hitch. In the last election in Sweden, 85% of those registered to vote so the pool of non voters is not so large. But in the land of the free and the home of the brave where only 50% plus/minus vote, the pool is gigantic.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
I am not a mental health pro but from the little I took in college re abnormal psych.. Trump is more like a psychopath than "nuts" ie psychotic.
However his personally disorder is certainly not the type of president Hamilton envisioned when he pushed for the electoral college ie electors should have voted him out ie a check against the populace voting for an unqualified candidate like Trump.
Just like in corporations progressive discipline should follow, ie censor Trump and if he does not listen and/or gets indicted impeach and oust him.
2
‘Tis the constant bald faced lying that disgusts me so deeply. Three more years of turning off the television every time I see and hear Trump Seems like an eternity.
1
It does matter whether or not we acknowledge that Donald Trump is mentally ill. His supporters claim that he is "crazy like a Fox," that "he is playing chess while others are playing checkers." Yes, they really do say that.
Others insist that Trump can "learn," "change," and "grow."
In fact Trump gives every sign of having a personality disorder. Personality disordered persons are *not* crazy like a fox, and they are unlikely to learn, change, and grow.
We need to acknowledge this, and, for the sake of our country, we need to act on this knowledge.
2
If Trump is mentally ill, the condition afflicts approximately one-third of the nation's voters. They are the danger to the country and the world. Trump's style certainly will be adopted by future "madmen" who run for office. The Trump core will applaud these future Trumps as they do Trump. The Time's is correct. The only answer is to vote in numbers so unprecedented that the electoral college cannot swing the result to a minority candidate.
NYT, we live in an ephemeral, childlike world. Have you been on a subway lately? What is everyone doing? Playing video games. We need a child in office because it reflects how childlike the U S A has become. And like all children, they simply want to run around and have fun. Trump has earned this right as an American.
In the many gerrymandered districts in my state, Pennsylvania, I don't see GOP voters crossing the line and voting for a Democrat, no matter how incompetent #45 gets. Ain't going to happen. They're brainwashed by Fox News and Rush and other fascistic pundits, together with their own home-grown brand of racism, misogyny, anti-immigrant beliefs, etc. So "get out the vote" may not be enough to turn the tables here, as you suggest. Like you say, "there's always 2020," promising an even worse system of gerrymandering, right-wing ideologists, less educated voters, maniacal president. "So it goes," as Mr. Vonnegut put it so succinctly.
Trump appears to be nuts if you try to assign some deeper meaning to his actions beyond constant and unwavering playing to his base, but that is exactly what he is doing. He says whatever he thinks will be best received by them in the moment. He does not care if it is false. He does not care if it contradicts something he said earlier. He doesn't care because they don't care.
He is clearly unfit for the office. That was clear to the majority of the voters in 2016. That does not make him crazy or demented. Like the editorial says, we need to vote his party out of the majority in November. Between now and Election Day, we need to make it very clear that anyone who supports him lose their job. Maybe that will temper them a little.
Since the first Homo sapiens rubbed two sticks together and lit a fire, we’ve had a pretty good idea of when a person is sane and when they’re terminally bonkers. It’s an important survival skill; you need to be able to recognize crazy, so you don’t follow Ugh the Cave Man off the cliff. That would have gotten you a Darwin Award in just one move.
I don’t know about you, but my Neanderthal senses are telling me that Trump is totally bonkers. While the Times editorial writers and the psychologists have little discussions about what is really proper and exactly what diagnosis applies to Trump, he’s still taunting dictators and talking about nuclear buttons—talk that would end the career of just about anybody else—and that is, by anyone’s definition, just plain NUTS.
The Twenty-Fifth Amendment was put there for a purpose; I suggest we use it. Or would you rather wait until Trump goes a little too far with his crazy tweets, and a North Korean missile wipes out Los Angeles?
"it’s obvious
we don’t need a medical degree or a psychiatric diagnosis to tell us what is wrong with Mr. Trump. It’s obvious to anyone who listens to him speak, reads his tweets and sees the effects of his behavior"
If it were "obvious" to the gullible Americans, Crazy City Mouse, playing Crazy Country Mouse wouldn't be President
Trumps hideously naked vanity, coupled with his bald faced rejection of reality, makes this vexing, featherless parrot a sickening parody of himself. He is not resplendent with the panorama of human emotions, brilliance, vision- colorful feathers...His feeble contours droop publicly, where many might fly.
He will never fly again.
1
What would a diagnosis matter anyway? If Trump was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, would that be grounds for removing him from office?
As much as I dislike everything Trump, I'm glad that it's hard to remove a president from office. That's how it should be. Blaming the Republicans for this is utterly ridiculous. Think about the awful precedent that would be set if Trump was removed from office simply because he is "impulsive, erratic, dishonest, childish, crude" - in short, because so many people dislike his personality. What would be the point of elections if the person elected could be removed from office just because he or she rubbed so many people the wrong way? Until he is charged and convicted of a high crime or misdemeanor, Trump should remain in office because he did what nobody else was able to do: get elected.
But which Trump are we talking about? After all, he's displayed a wide spectrum of demeanors ranging from trash talking lout to fifteen minutes of presidentialness. His infinite variety of mood and viewpoint would put to shame the most fragmented of split personalities.
1
Of course it matters whetehr he is mentally ill or not!
Because if he is ill, the path to removing him is, constitutionally and politically, a quite different one from the one you'd take if you simply very stongly disagreed with his policies & the way he does things
Obvious
The question isn’t is he nuts, everyone including republicans know the answer to that. What republicans are doing is telling him what a great genius he is, and how he’s responsible for passing all their legislation. They figured it out. And above all, don’t poke fun at him because he’s the most revengeful man in earth. Just ask Barack.
Ps. Mitch McConnell might be the second most revengeful.
To declare Trump nuts in psychological terms and mentally unfit to be President is to also to declare the vast majority of Republican members of Congress, Republican political figures, and millions of other Republicans across the nation who continue to support or tacitly accept him despite his contemptible behavior is to also declare all of them equally nuts and unfit for citizenship.
Lets face it, the problem with Trump is not just his despicable and unhinged behavior, but rather his deeds, policies, incessant lies, and embrace of the most hate driven fringes of the far right. By those measures he really is fairly a mainstream Republican differencing only in the openness with which he panders to hate. In the end the real problem has less to do with what's in Trump's and much more to do with what for heavens sake is in the mind of the Republican Party and its followers.
1
The NY Times should know better than to use a term like "nuts" for many reasons, ranging from clarity to insensitivity to offensiveness. In any case, Mr. Trump is not "nuts" or "crazy." He is evil. Make no mistake about it. He is very aware of what he is doing. He is a classic Shakespearean rabble-rouser, and he has the same calculated, evil intent.
1
Republicans, beware! Next presidential elections, somewhere in a deep, dark dungeon, the Democrats WILL dig up their version of a very charismatic Frankensteinian candidate! - Isn't it about time both parties should consider a less imperial kind of presidency?
1
These doctors are all familiar with the spectrum of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and how trump falls on the sociopathic end of that spectrum. Google it in DSMV, educate yourself on this and see trump fits very obviously into this template. He presents classic text book of it! The condition is very predictable once you know what it is. Duty to Warn docs know exactly what they are talking about and should be heeded. We're watching the implosion in slo-mo now...guarantee it gets worse because of the pathology of this condition...and everything in the world hangs in the balance.
Donald Trump provided many clues about his bad behavior
in the election campaign. He used derogatory names
of his opponents-"crooked Hillary", "little Rubio",etc
not to mention his ignorance of issues. However, the
voters ignored it and put him into the oval office. The
voters also need mental fitness test.