Governor Brown hits a home run for green land management.
Lives apparently matter little to those who keep pretending climate change isn't real, and isn't going to keep worsening, causing more and more deaths. Then there's the $306 billion dollars in damage last year. Let's just pretend climate change is debatable, while people die. As long as it benefits certain corporate interests not to take the necessary steps to start correcting the catastrophe we've created, it's okay to hide our heads in the sand. Back when the hole in the ozone layer first became widely understood, changes were made in order to attempt to start undoing the damage we'd done. What's different now?: We're playing a political game, a profits-game really—while people, and the planet, suffer. This is incredibly shameful. We're trading lives, and the future of our children, for obscene wealth for a few. Shameful. Obscene.
6
I saw years ago in a Conservative weblog a guy, claiming to be an ex military, with a very strangely politically extremist position, which is not what a good military anywhere should ever ignore, encourage or support in its members, wishing, "that fires, floods, mudslides and earthquakes might remove those 'liberals'...or push them to a more homogenous Midwest and the South". Is that what these natural disasters are doing? Or...is this geoengineered by some smart aleck scientist in New York...where supposedly all the caring environmentalists are supposed to be. Many of the comments in the NYT don't seem to be very caring.
With all the cruel comments maybe some of New Yorkers want "New York and New Jersey to secede". if they hate California and Texas so much, especially from some of the NYT comments, then maybe paying attention to something else might help. Like that New Jersey doctor who shot and killed his radio host wife by hiring a hit man, because she was planning to reveal his connection with a the drug cartel...now into prescription drugs. Is this the new relationship between New York-New Jersey medical system and the drug cartels and Wall Street? Who is investigating? The NYT?
The loss of life is tragic and possibly avoidable. Do any of the readers of this article remember the California regulation that was created and invoked against home owners preventing clearing of fire promoting material from home-sites? No! Well you should. Stupidity and greed are only two of the essential foundations of the bad roads, schools, bloated public salaries and pensions, water management and infrastructure of 2018 California.
The Kate Steinle fires, followed by the Kate Steinle floods, followed by the Kate Steinle mudslides.
How's that karma sandwich California?
Taste good?
My sincere empathy and condolences to Californian families who lost family members and homes to first fire, and now mudslides. Well read readers will recall the spring 2016 Fort McMurray, Alberta fire. I am a resident of Fort McMurray.
In my opinion, the true battle ahead for insurance companies, home owners, and countles are the difficult choices to make on wether or not to permit rebuilding.
The Californian fires burned trees and vegetation that previously served lto stabilize hills. Even still standing trees that burned, their roots will die and no longer help prevent soil erosion when heavy rainfall occurs. In a Fort McMurray area called Waterways, several homes backed ontp Signal Hill, that, along with the homes, burned. The decision was made to ban home rebuilds below the slope due to the risk of future landslides. Insurers then paid out home owners for fair value of their homes and land.
Rebuiing decisions will be much more difficult in the Los Angeles area, given the limited availability of undeveloped land for single detached new home construction. Local LA politicians must understand that eminent rebuild decisions to be made must occur with a guiding principle that safety must not be compromised. Undoubtedly, many residents will have no interest in returning to their devastated, at risk land.
Land remediation will not occur quicklly. In Fort McMurray, many friends returned to rebuilt homes in time for Christmas '17, other homes have only just been framed.
2
---That darned Chinese conspiracy is acting up again.
1
That boy's dad didn't make it. He was my teammate and my doctor.
I don't understand why so many people downhill didn't evacuate their homes by noon Monday as recommended. I don't understand why police don't order people out under threat of arrest.
16 dead
24 still missing
Helicopters overhead constantly as they refuel at the SB airport, but when our skies go silent, it means that all hope is lost.
4
Southern California Edison, the utility company, is being investigated for causing the fire which lead to extreme flooding, SCE has strangled Santa Barbara and Montecito with a highly dangerous and antiquated system of wires and transformers. We need to heal and find justice.
3
How many disasters do we have to endure before most people admit that climate change is a reality? At this point we may be able to effectively control or at least mitigate the effects of these changes - we will not be able to do so much longer. Today these “events” are newsworthy misfortunes. If we don’t change our ways this will be our new normal. At this point it appears that we still have a choice - how much longer will we still have?
4
While grading, berms, and land use maintenance won't completely eliminate the risk California could have more of this if it did not spend billions each year on illegal aliens. And housing in safe areas would be more affordable.
1
dude, have you ever been here? montecito is the wealthiest area in the world. the owner of the flyers lived there until he died recently. super stars live there. also doctors and lawyers - as a sign that they made it. it's rural, along the highway artery that is the 101 freeway - the only way in or out to santa barbara - the conduit between LA and the Central Coast along the coastline. if you drive around montecito you would see crews of people you might call illegal aliens working on maintenance and landscaping. maids waiting for the bus. nannies. the proximity to this super star land is what makes the rest of santa barbara so expensive. it's a nice place to live: boring, safe, clean, lots of outdoor activities. not enough of our tax dollars are spent on the people who work really hard for little wages for rich people and who cram into expensive tiny rentals just to have a chance at the american dream.
10
Many people in the comments are pointing to [human caused] climate change. Of course, no person alive, or dead, can say what percentage, if any, of this latest environmental disaster was the result of human produced emissions. After all, rain, fire, mudslides, etc were happening on this planet long before humans were even in existence. What can be said is humans have no right believe the earth below, or above, their homes will always be in the same spot. Nor can anyone guarantee the amount of rainfall received in a certain location will always be in the Goldilocks zone (in other words not too much, not too little, but juuuust right). Weather, tectonic forces, and other natural phenomena will continue with or without the presence of human bodies. We can only plan for and try to avoid Earth's most destructive tendencies.
1
Since both Red states and Blue suffer these maladies, it’s clear that God doesn’t care distinguish our politics or religion. Rather S/He is focused on what kind of stewardship we show over the precious land S/He gave us. That is surely something that all but the very most selfish among us can agree to protect.
10
Most days in this paper, we read how people vastly overestimate their ability to recognize risk and underestimate what it takes to avoid it. Personal safety is rarely a consideration in purchasing a home, the key decisions points being location, location and location. Mudslides, earthquakes and coastal storms are not new occurrences. So who is to blame? Is it the buyer, the builder or the weak-kneed zoning officials?
6
Your comment will be excoriated by the same people who make all the wrong choices about where to live. That's how they roll. There is a direct cause-effect relationship between natural weather events and the homeowners effected. Choosing to build or live in a flood prone area or on hillsides which are regularly ravaged by fire will eventually result in tragedy for you and your family. But that fact does not prevent the irresponsible from making stupid decisions.
3
Are you implicitly assuming that it's only one? If so, then you are committing a common flaw in logic.
Deaths following natural calamities used to occur only in the poor developing countries of Asia and Africa. Nowadays, they are quite common in the affluent west. How much of this is due to climate change. Or does the ‘crumbling infrastructure ‘ play a role.
2
The U.S. has a population density ratio of 91.5 persons per square mile while India's is 382 persons per square mile; California's is 251 and growing fast.
A superior building code is a major factor in ensuring the inhabitants' safety - witness the high mortality rate in Haiti re their poorly constructed dwellings; however, the present failure to seriously address the ramifications of a growing population will ensure more catastrophes of this nature with even greater consequences.
2
What bunk. Natural disasters have happened throughout the developed world throughout history. Mt. St. Helens eruption. Hurricane Sandy. The Galveston hurricane. The San Francisco earthquake of 1906. It has nothing to do with "crumbling infrastructure".
2
Sorry, that should read that India has 943 persons per square mile.
The world is over populated. The Earth will win this war and no amount of solar panels will make a dent in the number of casualties. These "natural" disasters will continue until the population is back under control.
9
"The world is overpopulated"
I agree. But since most people seem to think and behave as though constant population (and economic) growth are necessary the future looks pretty bleak for Homo sapiens sapiens.
1
We must come to terms with the fact that nature is not predictable, but there are patterns from which we can learn. 7,000 people ignored an evacuation order, and put themselves in harm's way. Yes, if nothing had happened those evacuees would have been upset at being displaced, but 13 (or more) people would still be alive, and emergency workers could have focussed on recovery rather than rescue.
Humankind is constantly innovating, trying to keep nature at bay. Earthquake proof buildings, hurricane & storm surge safe housing, and even lightning rods are designed to deflect the effects of Mother Nature. But sometimes were are going to lose. We need to lose. The patterns of nature are more important to the health of this planet.
3
Californians have dealt with so much tragedy this year, and my heart goes out to them. It's extremely callous that some commenters are so quick to judge others about where they choose to live. These days, you're going to be taking your chances with the weather and natural disasters no matter where you reside.
I live in Colorado Springs. It's a beautiful place, but it can be scary too. There's an almost constant danger of fire because it's so dry here. About five years ago the Waldo Canyon Fire destroyed many beautiful homes in the foothills. There was also the Black Forest Fire that destroyed even more.
Some homes have been built on mine shafts, and they sink into the ground and become partially or completely uninhabitable. So, we have our problems as well. A great many of us do. Am I going to be condemned because I choose to live here?
9
You made a choice. Now live with the potential consequences. And don;t ask anyone else to bail you out when the next fire or flood takes your home.
3
Time to stop denying that climate change due to global warming is a real problem, coming to a place near you. Yes, there have been other exceptional events, but the trends and recordbreaking excesses should be getting your attention.
Hunkering down and trying to shoot the messenger, isolating yourself with the proud few who support contradictory ideas that go against what you can see for yourself if you follow world weather, is getting more dangerous by the day.
Time to wake up. Only by working together to solve problems can we make things better. We're pretty far down the road to poisoning our earth, water, and air. Time to stop. Quarterly profits aren't the ultimate goal of humanity, no matter how much wealthy and powerful interests practice to deceive.
12
Keeping you close in my heart, California. <3
18
This is why we pay taxes folks....to help out in these natural disasters! And to put policies in place that lessen the impact of climate change.
30
That is why good citizens who live & work in community pay their taxes and don't gripe about how unfair taxes are.....I have to wonder about those who are not paying their fair share of taxes? The big corporations, the 1% etc who justify their greed (and their recent HUGE tax cuts) yet still feel free to use our roads, sewers, power grids, emergency services, airports, beaches, parks, seaports etc.Will CA now join Puerto Rico as a forgotten land?
2
You know what will help? Get everyone to drive gas guzzler cars and hope climate change isn't real.
8
How about every house built on or near a hill in california MUST be abandoned and evacuated because it SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BUILT THERE TO BEGIN WITH.
11
And those built on the soon to flood Long Island coasts?
12
Anyone in a "flood zone" is taking their chances - not smart, I'm not in one, for reference..
2
When NY is facing high water and Long Island begins to submerge then apply that policy to all of those home owners in Long Island.
1
There is nothing ´natural´about these disasters.
7
If you’re interested in mudslides in California, read John McPhee’s 1989 book, The Control of Nature. It’s very informative.
7
The weather forecasters and fireofficials predicted this would happen if and when heavy rains would hit California burn areas. As for this particular storm, it was predicted with great accuracy late last week and ANYONE who would have either read any of the national newspapers or watched the national weather program(s) would have been prepared and would have evacuated. Watching the national news tonight it was said the areas that had a mandatory evacuation order, most residents decided to stay. Why in heavens name? Did these people lose their minds? Oh, right... quotes i've heard over the recent years from residents: "I'd rather die here than leave, this is my home". "No way I'm leaving, this is a beautiful place". "I was born here and will die here". "I can't take my pets with me , so I'm staying". Only in Southern California will residents ignore the accurate and dire predictions, made by scientists, but they will listen to their astrologers or a sales person at their local health food store.. I do have pity for them for being such fools!!!
"
7
Glass Houses. Haven't scientists predicted a 9.0 earthquake with hit Portland?
3
It is true that is it beautiful in Montecito and Santa Barbara, but I have never been able to understand why people would want to live in a place with insufficient rainfall and water resources. It is also miles away for any contemporary cultural stimulation.
4
So what's the rainfall like in PALM DESERT? Why would anyone want to live in a DESERT?
2
This from someone in Palm Desert???
3
This has to be a joke, coming from someone in Palm Desert.
4
It is remarkable to me that there are actually people in this world whose only thought is that those who live in areas that are subject to natural disasters deserve what they get.
Whatever happened to putting yourself in someone else’s shoes?
Someday some disaster may befall these commenters - be it a Nor’Easter in Massachusetts or tornado in the mid-west or hurricane in Florida. I can assure them that that I will be glad that my tax dollars can be put to good use to help them rebuild their life.
My thoughts and heart are with my friends and neighbors in Montecito.
27
Thank you!! I live in a desert, and if any place is ripe for a "natural" or man-made disaster, it's Phoenix. We don't live here because it's where we want to live be but because it was the least objectionable place we could find jobs. Instead of blaming people for being "foolish", I like to see more people willing to help with their tax dollars and committed to voting for candidates who respect the evidence of climate change and global cooperation in combating it.
7
I guess they will not wait for 5 months to get their power back on, like their compatriots in Puerto Rico.
21
It probably won't take that long to restore power because:
1) it's not an island so securing goods and services will be easier,
2) the infrastructure has been fairly well maintained (unlike in PR!),
3) the state has emergency preparedness plans in place,
4) it's a single city - and a small one at that.
3
How right you are. Do you suppose money talks? (and is heard...)
And... cue typical unsympathetic commentary for CA disasters: they should've known, what were the developers thinking, they shouldn't have built there, why do people even live in CA, etc. etc.
Also quite a bit of the "let's see here..." and "well, this isn't surprising..." type intros, with a summary of the fire/flood natural cycle. It's like some of you are super awesome disaster detectives figuring out a crime...that no one asked you to figure out.
If you don't have anything nice to say, you probably didn't live in CA this year. Send support and kind words instead, please.
24
What horror for anyone who interfaced with this disaster. My hopes that all who are missing will be found.
8
Read John McPhee's The Control of Nature...
5
As much as some want to blame Trump for the disasters in CA, i don't think he has the powers to change the weather in 1 year.
Weather patterns change over hundreds and thousands of years, are we really going to be arrogant enough to define all weather history by the 20, 40 , 50 years we have lived in an area - our time on this earth are nothing but a blip in the scheme of things. The problem is we are now building in vulnerable areas like hillsides, woods and shorelines, and expect the current weather patterns to be similar to the recent past, and then are shocked when a weather pattern that has happened hundreds of times over the last 10's of thousands of years occurs.
4
Everyone rushes so quickly to condemn the shortsightedness of these people building in dangerous conditions. But this will become the norm. Miami, New Orleans, Charleston, New York, Boston - take any city and it will follow the trend, because weather becomes more and more unpredictable. Add another decade and the natural disasters will move inland. For better or for worse Mother Nature does not care about your houses, cars, roads or insurance premiums. We kept abusing it for centuries, and the response is finally here. So keep the blame to ourselves.
15
I was born and raised in Santa Barbara and now live with my wife rent a small place in a not-so developed area just north in Goleta. Since moving there in 2001, we has been near evacuation zones for three fires while my parents' longtime tract house I grew up in has had two more in the same period. My Uncle lost his house in one fire and had it threatened again with the most recent Thomas Fire.
Just like those who constantly endure hurricanes in the Southeast and tornadoes in the Midwest, we stay here when human ignorance often colludes with Santa Ana winds to make a city-threatening fire and even when the resulting barren land later turns into a rushing river that damages all in its path. If you've ever seen a sunset here or even a photo of one, you wouldn't have to ask why.
Yes, we are overbuilt in bad spots like Montecito due to greed. I get and even agree with the negative attitude towards the rich and shameless of Montecito - a village where you wonder if a poorly dressed disheveled looking person at the table across from you at the cafe is homeless or that Golden Globe nominated actor whose name you can't remember. Whispers-that's Michael Stuhlbarg.
But right now, after surviving together the largest fire in state history that threatened the livelihoods of people all over the socioeconomic and racial spectrum, this storm, the floods and the death of so many was a punch in the gut to all of us-even if we weren't directly affected.
6
Fifty years ago I was a graduate student at UCSB and lived in Isla Vista. Santa Barbara is a beautiful area, my prayers are with the people affected by the fire and now these mudslides. Critics need to understand we cannot run away from the changes in the climate. We need to work together for the best policies possible and some compassion when tragedy strikes.
I too am horrified by the natural disasters that are affecting our country however I am also curious did the $306 billion dollars spent last year on these disasters help to stimulate the economy? Could the NY Times analyze that question?
3
I used to work for the telephone company in Miami. Trust me when I say that I and my coworkers made lots of overtime after a hurricane. So did all the contractors replacing roofs and siding. Lots of people make money off of natural disasters and then we spend it.
I lived on a street in Montecito where pictures show one house was totally destroyed. I lived there 30 years, raised my kids there. We still have friends in the area. One man was able to walk around the area that had a major impact from the storm. He said the devastation was even worse that the pictures you see. That's unusual because it's usually the reverse.
For people who want to somehow make this political, stop for a minute and realize people have died, and probably more people will be found dead. Well built homes were destroyed.
Don't complain that people built in a vulnerable area. This was a giant mud ball that rolled down the mountains picking up truck size boulders, cars, houses, more mud, people, crossed the 101 freeway and train tracks that ran parallel to it, and finally dumped into the ocean.
This has been a sad day as we try to find friends who we haven't heard from yet.
14
Instances like this, the California fires and mud slides, Houston flooding and the hurricanes striking our country - these are the reasons we need a supportive Congress and government in general. The Republicans need to get behind our country. Walls and tax cuts for the wealthy are not in the least constituent friendly.
15
It's great to not hear folks here saying, "Our prayers are with you" and instead raising practical issues like immediate emergency responses at all governmental levels, about policy decisions, building/zoning climate and environmental systems.
4
Nature always bats last. Global warming, unfettered population growth, and marked income inequality will be the substrate for more and more human catastrophes.
And, conveniently, it's mostly the billionaires that can afford to buy protection and move themselves and their loved ones anywhere in the world that's seasonable and safe.
It's some inconvenience, but, as long as dollars or bitcoin are legal tender, they can buy enough local politicians and high end security to cushion and secure their landing.
4
I wish the people of Santa Barbara County peace, rest, and a chance to grieve, rebuild, and try to recover.
Climate change is real, it's happening not in some distant future but right now, and it's hittiing California especially hard.
10
This rain, growth, drought, burn, rain, mudslide cycle has been going on for more than 60 years that I know of. II is time to hold the developers and politicians who allow building in these treacherous areas accountable. Developers are never turned down by a politician. They should both be indicted for murder.
2
Some of these comments are weird and disturbing. No sympathy for these people because they chose to live in flood zones/mudslide areas? Give me a break. There are very few places in Southern Cal that are not in either a flood, mudslide, or fire zone. And all of it is an earthquake zone.
5
Alabama only lost to one team this year(by 10 or 15 points), The only team to beat Alabama this year was beat by UCF( by 10 or 15 points), therefore the University Of Central Florida should be no. # 1.
Peace to all! I specially feel bad for the children as it is not their choice but their parents decision to live in such unstable geographical location. I saw Oprah's video. Her neighbors' houses are destroyed. These people can afford to relocate but they chose "paradise" and I guess they have to live with the consequences.
2
These are some of the most beautiful settings in which to live that can be imagined. It is also true that none of these people walk to work, the grocery store, school or religious services. There is also very little public transportation. Living in settings like this is one of the causes of climate change. But almost no one knew that when these extremely attractive homes were built.
3
So tragic, and so often these slides occur because developers are allowed to build subdivisions in areas of unstable soil. We cannot have sensible safety vetting and development codes because they might interfere with developer's "rights", and people who buy these homes suffer. But there doesn't seem to be any way around that, since developers cannot be held accountable (since they write the laws and codes.) So homeowners in vulnerable areas should have their home insurance cancelled or denied. to prevent re-building. Homeowners can then go after previous owners or the developers to get their money back. It's the only way to stop these repeating tragedies, since we cannot have good soil science, or any awareness of California's unique climate and geology.
2
People should research the area before they purchase the property and then make a decision based on that assessment. Insurance companies should certainly assess risk and price their policies accordingly. But why is the blame always on someone else - the developers - and not on the individual who has a choice? Curiously, you ask for government to forbid rebuilding, yet fail to understand that building codes, permits and zoning IS the job of government. Having lived in CA for 10 years I can attest to the fact that building something out there is a gauntlet of regulations. As to prior owner accountability, CA has strict disclosure laws already.
Further, what defines "vulnerable area"? The first big disaster? The second time it happens? Should my Ohio hometown not have been rebuilt when an F5 tornado demolished 2/3 of it in 1974? What about Joplin? New Orleans? New York City? All of these places endured substantial damage and might be considered "vulnerable".
Denying the right to return to one's home is a serious thing and should not be undertaken without deep consideration for the consequences. Millions could be displaced.
2
Extreme weather events, all exacerbated by climate change, will continue and worsen as global warming increases. Adaptation will include no building in areas previously thought immune--sadly, a sign of our hubris. Our learning curve will be steep, but as environmental tragedies as this landslide, wild fires, floods and hurricanes increase, including the inevitable rise of sea level, we will hopefully include a more honest analysis of our vulnerability. The terrible loss of human life, the mounting cost of destruction--in 2017 alone 306 billion dollars as reported by the NYT,-- will finally force us to address the other part of the equation: meaningful actions to mitigate climate change, including the accelerated reduction of the use of fossil fuels. Whether we like it or not, this is our future, our new normal.
4
We Californians relish the natural beauty and proximity of the woodlands that are interspersed with our urban settlements. But wildlands are aptly named and nature will not be tamed by pretty landscaping. Skiing, surfing, mountain climbing all are pleasurable because we have confronted and mastered the real possibility of death. Placing our homes in the path of fire, earthquake and flood, to experience natural beauty and harmony, is a milder form of the same impulse. Usually we remain safe and alive, but not always.
3
Scientific sense is beginning to tie these "extreme" events to AGW; common sense makes a stronger case, one might say. For me an important consideration is whether the process will accelerate exponentially. If so, we won't be waiting until 2100 for a rollicking time.
2
It’s a tragedy, but it brought back a memory. Lived in Carpenteria 50 years ago and we had the same combo of fires and mudslides. A National Guard helicopter landed on our lawn and unloaded emergency food and supplies. The soldiers were a great show and we felt like refugees even though we lived in a pretty wealthy area and didn’t really need or want government rations.
1
I remember the Tennessee Valley Authority being founded in no small part to reforest the region from the excessive cutting of forest to be used for firewood. The ecological damage caused by fires but more importantly the damage, neglect of infrastructure leads to serious consequences not easily traced. But as long as we believe "beware of gummit, it is here to help you", we will suffer from many maladies due to the absence of investment in the public health and well being.
3
“Last year, extreme weather that scientists say is partly attributed to climate change caused more than $306 billion in damage...”
Tomorrow, the California Public Utilities Commission will approve the shutdown of Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant - the source of 9% of California’s electricity and 22% of its clean electricity. Despite the 9 million tons of CO2 it will add to California’s emissions total. Despite warnings from climatologists it will only add to a global problem which can become local with dizzying immediacy - and of which Californians are just starting to get a taste.
Yes, extreme weather is “partly attributable” to climate change: the extreme part.
15
Diablo Canyon should never have been built in the first place. Who in their right mind would build a nuclear power plant on an earthquake fault? Good riddance to that disaster waiting to happen that is Diablo Canyon!
2
It's so weird because I live in Santa Barbara and I heard the rain and the alerts on my phone in the middle of the night, but by morning, I was walking to work in a gentle rain on streets that weren't flooded at all. I would have expected much worse as I have experienced much worse in my many years of living here. Some businesses still retain a high water mark from a flood several decades ago and I have fond memories of someone paddling a boat on my flooded high school campus. If it weren't for the news I might not know anything happened at all last night and that only 10 miles away, people were dying in mudslides. Our weather, floods, fires and earthquakes are capricious. Although it may be worsening in some ways, this kind of thing has always been a part of living here.
2
Absolutely spot on!
I lived in Ojai for 10 years and marveled at the different perspectives of reading the news accounts and looking out my window. The areas affected are so heartbreaking to see, but it's so localized.
Every region has its disasters and those who live there get used to them. I remember by Ohio friends freaking that I was moving to an earthquake prone area, yet my Ojai friends shook their heads that anyone could live in "tornado alley".
This is what the land was meant to do here. There are too many people standing in its way.
2
Really tough 15 months for our state. The half million acres that burned are all subject to erosion and flooding with rain events. Epic rains in 2016-17 led to lots of vegetation that was fuel for the fires of October thru December and are now bare hillsides that will wash away in heavy rains. Even though Napa, and Sonoma Counties road crews and contractors have been working 7 days a week since the Wine country fires, there are steep areas that couldn't be treated with storm protections and will cause lots of debris and slides all along the steep canyons the drain into the valleys. Ventura to Santa Barbara haven't had time to do much since the massive Thomas fire to prepare for the rains.
2
Rules for California survival: don't live at the top or bottom of a steep hill or cliff, don't live next to a stream or other waterway, don't live across a bridge from your job (bridge could fall in a quake), don't live or work in a structure built on landfill. Do live in an area with a responsible and conscientious local government.
4
To say, as Scott does, that he has no sympathy with these people is a) to have zero compassion, b) to make sweeping generalisations about where these people did or did not live, and c) to assume that death is a perfectly acceptable punishment whether they are “guilty” or not. Despicable.
What should be thought about, however, as well as zoning, is how to protect vegetation in times of severe drought in order to keep hillsides stable, apart from the other advantages to ecology, etc. If you can bombard areas with water after burning has started, why no do it as a pre-emptive measure? That may require a whole different attitude to water; people won’t like the idea of watering drought areas to keep vegetation alive rather than filling their swimming pools and keeping grass green, among other things. Water is a precious resource.
3
This is not the price of living in a beautiful place - it’s the price of climate change inaction. Record heat, drought, winds in CA are echoed in each state. Don’t blame the victims- let’s unite and do everything we can to back climate scientists, sane policy makers and innovators who can make a safer future. #evidencebased please. It’s too terrifying not to.
3
I cannot understand at all why people did not evacuate when told of the dangers. It is awful that they put their own lives at risk, but to put their children's lives, and those of friends and first responders who have to rescue them, at risk is bordering on evil.
Do they really value material possessions over their own and their children's lives? Something is desperately wrong here.
3
Oh wait- I don't recall the people of Louisiana or Houston being called "dummies' for buying homes in flood zones. Are New Yorkers next for living where the occasional devastating storm occurs?
Seriously.
6
Of course weather disasters have always happened on our planet, but never with the frequency and to the scale of the last few years. Climate change deniers like Trump and his GOP minions are actively destroying the earth as we know it, and all because they are bought and paid for by the fossil fuel industry. One day, their children and grandchildren will look at them, hatred in their eyes, and ask, "And you did this for money and power? Money and power?''
3
Are the severity of these mudslides caused, at least in part, by the fire damage to the vegetation?
1
Yes. Exactly.
1
Read. The. Article.
Almost wholly.
1
One might be excused from reflecting on the irony of a locale whose politics are consumed with "eco-matters" large, small and inconsequential, yet is ridiculously over-populated, draining roaring rivers along the way so they may water lawns in a desert environment, and actively inviting even more poor, jobless, environmentally-ignorant, lifetime users of....wait for it...water resources, internal combustion engines and agriculture grown in unsustainable fashion. Irony and hypocrisy. The outcome and the input of all things preachy.
1. People were warned. Repeatedly. For extended periods of time.
2. This kind of irresponsible building is of a piece with the irresponsibility of throwing gigatons of CO2 into the air, and expecting nothing to happen.
3. Trump never hawked real estate in rural aras, but his various Big Deals have been every bit as destructive to people and communities in their own ways.
1
After the fires, everyone knew there would be some flooding and resulting damage, but this turned out to be the worst case scenario. The first major rain storm to hit produced sustained, unusually intense rainfall over the entire burn area, which led to catastrophic debris flows. The rain did not really get going until after midnight, when people were in bed. Many people lost power because the mud and rock slides took out power poles. As a result, they couldn't see what was happening as the slides quickly filled populated areas. Evacuation routes are now filled with mud, rock, trees, and debris. Those would-be evacuation routes are the same roads that rescue workers and utility crews need to access trapped residents and electric, gas, and water mains that were destroyed overnight. Meanwhile, thousands of people are hemmed in by the muck, if not forced right into it, and help will be slow to arrive in many places. People are, in all likelihood, still dying as a result. It is a very sad and distressing scenario. I grieve for the victims of this terrible turn of events, praise the neighbors and professionals struggling to save lives, and send my blessings to all involved.
23
I saw the mandatory evacuation notices here in NY well before the rains began. I know there were some mudslides in areas outside the evacuation zone but to say people had no warning because the slides happened at night is not entirely accurate. I think people are having a hard time adjusting their sense of risk to meet the elevated probability of disasters that seems to be the new normal. To have only 17% obey a mandatory evacuation, when the warning went door to door is appalling. These people were not "dumb" but they were not able to correctly assess their risk despite warnings. That needs to be studied and corrected.
No rest for the weary. Hang in there, Californians! And please stay safe!
22
This is dreadful. What is next? Earthquake? Tsunami? I don't know how people can live with these types of natural disasters so close to their doorsteps. It is the price of living in Paradise I guess.
Their rescue/fire dept. personnel are priceless members of their communities.
48
I've never understood how people can live on floodplains in areas prone to tornadoes.
Possibly, Cam, but without a quake, we're done for a little while. I'd never live in Tornado Alley nor a state where high humidity is normal. I could have if I'd been brought up in it. I've never lived elsewhere than Santa Barbara, 8 miles from the slide. I'm not in a risk area for fire or flood, tho it happens, like '90 when Painted Cave fire jumped the freeway and was in or close to Hope Ranch, another very rich enclave where you would not expect such fire. When it's 90 or 100 and wind's blowing at 50, 70? There's NOTHING humans can do to control it. Like tornado, hurricane, earthquake. We just have to work with it better, smarter, gentler.
Of course this mud disaster was foreseeable. I will not cast blame; I've worked with emergency services; can't even imagine how they feel. I'm aware of the evac orders and recommendations. People need to take them more seriously. But we can't know how they react to warnings (be ready to go the minute the call is made) and to mandatory orders. Also, there's big evac fatigue here. I'm no pro, but seems to me evac warnings are not of much use for anticipated mudslides.
I'm surprised more weren't scared into evacuation -- mudslides are much more violent, immediate and dangerous than fires. This should educate many the hard way.
I've had 2 good cries today, all are in my thoughts and heart. RIP, and peace to all affected, the workers too of course.
4
No. This is the price of ignoring the effects of global warming and the problems are world wide, north, south, east and west. Puerto Rico is in much worse shape thanks to it being ignored by our Prez and his do little Congress. Other nations are suffering horrific droughts causing starvation and increasing conflict between people.
2
This needs to updated asap. We have had 13 people killed so far, an unknown number missing, and 162 people at our emergency department.
32
Lets see. Fires erupted and burned, stripping the hillsides of vegetation. Then it rains and we get flooding and mudslides. Sounds just like what is supposed to happen. No one forced these people to build their homes in these vulnerable areas. Even worse, all of us are paying for these stupid decisions, through higher insurance premiums.
40
Compassion - please show some compassion. If we just keep merrily burning fossil fuels and let climate change continue to get worse, extreme fires followed by monsoon rains and perhaps even mudslides could be in our future in Massachusetts where you and I live, as well. Many of the homes damaged in the recent fires in California were built decades ago when almost nobody understood how vulnerable those areas would become, just like the homes built close to sea level and now flooding in every climate-change-exaggerated storm tide, up and down the coast of Massachusetts. Lay off the criticizing and spend your valuable energy advocating for solutions.
1
Shall we evacuate Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and the rest of the Midwest due to tornado risk? Much of the East Coast was wrecked by Hurricanes in the last 10 years. Katrina, alone, killed thousands. Heat waves kill scores every summer and blizzards do the same in winter. Yet 99.9999% of people living in the path of these disasters are fine. Only a few are killed or bankrupted. We all pay for each other's disasters and we should.
1
"Supposed to happen"? You mean like hurricanes flooding NYC?
Compassion. Try it.
1
We'd better wake up and devise legislation that prohibits construction where natural disasters destroy lives and property. Not even Montecito, with all its wealth, could stop the mud from sliding.
Mother Nature always bats last.
69
Name one area in the entire United States that is not vulnerable to natural disasters. People in the South and the Midwest build on flood plains. Would you have us abandon the entire Gulf Coast and the east coast of Florida because they are subject to catastrophic hurricanes? I guess we should have abandoned New Orleans after Katrina.
1
There is nowhere that "natural disasters" cannot destroy property. See, that's the defining quality of costly "natural disasters": they can only occur where expensive development has occurred. And given that at least some forms of extreme releases of energy (through fire, wind, waves, flood, earthquake, rain, snow, ice, and volcanic activity) take place wherever people build, it is not feasible to legislate the problem away, anymore than one can legislate an end to global warming by banning it.
2
So no building in lower Manhattan (remember Sandy?)... no building in the state of Oklahoma (remember tornados?).......
4
In CA you choose to buy a house not in the nicest wooded area nor a lot that allows you privacy. You instead buy a house where a flash wind storm will not take you house down by arson, where a previous earthquake did not destroy houses, and where there are no tsunami warning signs. We are lucky as freezing temperatures aren't in the equation unless you are a skier and actually want them.
Soon the rest of the country will be in the same boat as us. OK has earthquakes thanks to the oil industry. VA and PA also have earthquakes. FL and many coastal areas will soon be underwater with or without a storm. TX was brought to its knees by a hurricane. Most of the East has been beyond cold this last few weeks. So instead of pointing to CA and saying things from poor CA to it's because they are so wicked, you may want to think about climate change and where your own house is located.
175
Correct, we are all connected.
3
Becky, aren't you saying that no matter where one lives in the United States they are or soon will be punished for not taking climate change seriously? Punished for being wicked and using the only presently viable fuel source to live, work, educate and transport themselves through their lives. Isn't that what you are saying Becky?
And knock on wood.
Read 'Nature's End'.
11
As a California native and resident and as a woman deeply against this administration, it really troubles me to read the comment section ranting against Trump. At least 13 people are dead. Like, in the last few hours. Can you not just take a moment to simply feel the grief and loss of this horror before yelling politics? I mean seriously it's shocking, and I'm that woman who's knocked on doors out of state and gotten thousands of petitions and signatures for bills and whatnot. 13 PEOPLE ARE DEAD. Gone forever from their lives and their loved ones. It's heartbreaking. Please can you just respect that?
115
Respecting the dead can and should include outrage at the current Administration, whose policies to return eliminate all the climate protections and environmental safeguards we have are going to put us into Climate Change Full Speed Ahead if we don't throw them out of office pretty quick. The policies of the Trump Administration will cause tens of thousands more deaths in the coming years, like these tragic 13 and counting in these latest mudslides - extra deaths due to climate change. The time for outrage is right now. It is the greatest form of respect - and demand for justice - in memory of the dead.
4
Unfortunately, some people in California have a very hard time controlling their hatred of Trump, and that overwhelms all sense of decency. Then they wonder why Trump probably won't visit California.
2
For how long did you think of the thousands of murdered Rohingyas, the millions of Syrian refugees dying of cold or drowning in the Mediterranean sea, and all the others? 13 dead in California, that's the number of deaths of innocent people every minute, but too far away from you to think about them. And yet their families feel the same sorrow, the same pain. ALL the dead deserve the same respect. Whether they are or not wealthy Californians.
3
Hurricanes, fires, earthquakes, droughts, tornados, floods, you name it...In Natures' overall scheme of things they are all constructive forces. Too bad people and property sometimes get in the way.
13
Arrogant people consider Nature to be in the way.
2
Because of our gentle weather, people think this is lovely & wouldn't it be so nice to live here. Enter the developers & now we have what we have. Mother nature takes care of herself, but we never appear to pay attention.
22
Global Warming does not help either.
3
I grew up in Montecito and Santa Barbara.
While fires followed by floods is nothing new, the scale and intensity of these events is certainly increasing. The critical impact of climate change which may take you life won't necessarily be excess heat. It may be a wall of flame or a wall of mud.
My heart goes out to all of the who lost their homes in the flames, and must now endure this new threat.
If you feel for the victims, work as hard as you can to fight the climate rollbacks like pulling out of the Paris Accord and opening the whole Pacific and Atlantic coasts to a slew of new oil drilling.
Our communities can't weather much more of this climate denial. Trump must go.
You'd think none of us had kids.....
140
According to NASA and NOAA, the frequency and intensity of storms is at a low point.
1
California's population has also increased from 27 million to 39 million over the past 30 yrs. 12 million more people straining public systems and the environment.
1
This cycle is repeating itself from the 60's. It isn't climate change or who is President of the United States. It is what happens when fire strips the soil of vegetation and slides and floods happen when rain events take place if preparations aren't made to stabilize things after fires. The last 15 months and the rest of this year are going to bring more stories when big rain events happen. Half a million acres were burned between Oct 9th, 2017 and the end of last year.
1
No sympathy for these people. Yes, it's sad but they choose to live in areas like this known to be unsafe. And, in doing so put children, pets and public resources at risk at the public's expense.
I live in Los Angeles and have for 30 years.
I have and choose to live in areas still not affected by floods, fires, mudslides and the like. When friends and family call to see if we are OK when they see the news of CA catastrophes we laugh and remind them that we live where it is "safe".
The people that choose to live in such flood/fire/mudslide areas should bear the brunt of the consequences and expenses. People have died and been injured rescuing these dummies.
21
Maybe the real estate developers and construction executives should also share a bit of that blame.
"I have and choose to live in areas still not affected by floods, fires, mudslides and the like." Opting instead for an area honeycombed with active earthquake faults. No doubt when the (inevitable) "Big One" hits, you'll turn away rescuers so as to not burden the public with the expense of your choice.
4
But that's the problem, isn't it? The definition of safe is rapidly changing. When I look at Coffey Park in Santa Rosa, I wouldn't have thought was a risky neighborhood. It wasn't WUI. It wasn't on a hillside. It probably didn't show-up as high-risk on an underwriting map. I think this is the hard reality California is going to be facing - a lot of neighborhoods previously thought of as "safe" are no longer going to be.
My condolences to the people who were first impacted by fire and are now living with mudslides because of the fire damage. People should be able to feel safe in their own home. Yet our president has yet to address either tragedy. People in California deserve the same support that was shown to the people of Houston after the flood from the recent hurricanes.
35
Trump sent federal firefighters.
1
how on Earth can you feel safe in your own home if you build your house on or in a wild area - prone to fires and massive floods, that has been going on for thousands of years and more? How? That's crazy thinking.
1
It seems as if the President does not encourage the people of California as they face peril after peril. Californians -- please know our hearts are with you. Your fellow citizens care that you are enduring disaster after disaster. Stay strong.
55
Thank you for your kind words and support.
1
Thank you.
Impervious surfaces. Like in Phoenix, the water has nowhere to go but down. Gravity seeks. Water follows. A terrible, terrible tragic year.
17
Our state needs more help from the federal government. Two massive fires, one in Northern CA and following that another devastating inferno in Southern CA, and now this. Countless lives have been lost, homes destroyed, many of us still trying to adjust to the disasters nature has dealt us. Yet, I just read, right now, how Florida is exempt from oil drilling off its coast. But not for my state. Trump can care less about our air, our water, our natural resources. He can care less about the people who live here, White men and women, our Black and Brown skinned community, Republican and Democrat.
We are people, Mr. Trump. And our state may be Bright Blue, but that is no excuse for your lack of compassion and empathy, and your insatiable appetite for vengeance.
64
I'm surprised you think the President does care somewhat:
"Trump can care less about our air, our water, our natural resources. He can care less about the people who live here..."
1
Just yesterday, I was told that California had the world's sixth largest economy and would survive very well on its own, without the problem of "red" states.
1
What is it that you want from the federal taxpayer? More than half of the firefighters who fought the blazes in California were federal firefighters, and we did not begrudge the spending, happy to help.
What vengeance are you referring to? Do you believe that Trump or Republicans started the fires or caused the rains? California is the fifth largest producer of crude oil in the country. Oil built California. It takes real chutzpa to act as though drilling for oil, proposed, changes anything except providing revenue to California.
2
Many parts of California are as beautiful as any in the world as is the climate but it comes with a price..brushfires, landslides, earthquakes, floods....
4
It's not a Natural Disaster. It is a disaster caused by our human neglect of the natural systems
23
The neglect and inappropriate building codes and zoning for profit are the responsibility of the democrat leadership of California. Just like the pollution in NYC is the consequence of Democrat leadership. Blue states should care for their local environment before passing judgment and imposing rules on red America, where the water and air are clean.
It's easy to understand why the residents of urban areas think tighter environmental regulations are needed, but that is because places like NYC ignore regulations and dump raw sewage into the waterways. We don't do that in red states.
1
No, in red states you just undereducate your children and deprive them of healthcare.
1
The eight deaths attributed to the Santa Barbara mud slides were preventable, entirely, and therefore utterly tragic.
There is an obsessive focus on the weather in the US. Oddly, over the past last week, in the Sacramento region and across all the vendors of weather I could not find on the internet any prediction or accurate description the ACTUAL RAINFALL, say where I live in Sacramento, California, Capitol downtown proper.
I checked NOAA, but there were few if any predictions of what was a heavy rain fall these past few days - it has not stopped raining since Sunday evening, and with only a 20 minute stop, yesterday the rains were continuous and hard.
But no news, not the local, nor national, stated warned people to stay off of the highways near soft hills, like Santa Barbara.
All the fire damaged areas of Santa Rosa are now going to be susceptible to erosion quickly.
I blame the state. 2) Our highways' asphalt melted during the 100 days of temperatures in 2017 that exceeded 100 degrees Fahrenheit. It wasn't water that damaged the highways. It was first the heat then the water. I refer to the Highways in the Valley, Sacramento included.
9
There were warnings, though. It was avoidable - yes - but when people do not follow warnings, it is completely on them. The adults, at-least. Sad for the kids if there are any who've died.
10
From the January 5th! edition of the Santa Barbara Independent:
"Forecasters expect the first big storm of the season to arrive Monday night, dropping as much as two inches along the coast and twice that in the mountains. Flooding is expected, especially in and below the Thomas Fire burn scar between Montecito and Carpinteria.
“'We need to organize and inform the public about [this] very clear and present danger,' said Santa Barbara County 1st District Supervisor Das Williams at a press conference outside Carpinteria City Hall today. Officials on hand, including Office of Emergency Management Director Robert Lewin and County Public Works Deputy Director Tom Fayram, warned that the potential for flash floods in the burn area this season is 10 times greater than a normal year because the Thomas has burned off the top layer of soil that normally acts as a sponge during rainstorms. "
Complete story and links to others at
https://www.independent.com/news/2018/jan/05/significant-storm-way-santa...
People were warned several days in advance. But mud slides downhill at hellacious speed.
19
People were in forced evacuation areas and were warned. But it was the people in potential evacuation areas, where they thought they were safe that got hit the hardest. No one expected the 101 to become a debris basin.
1
One thing often overlooked by residents in similarly affected areas is the build up of debris, including trees, boulders and various forms of flotsam and jetsam, creating a temporary dam which, when it fails, unleashes its fury on all those downstream. I lost a friend in such a scenario in the same area (Sycamore Canyon Road) back in 1995 and I will never forget the pictures of his home which, although left standing, was stripped of every window, door, appliance and stick of furniture. My friend was found more than a mile downstream, just a short distance from his beloved dogs.
44
I'm sorry about your friend. 1995 was an El Nino year, just like last year.
I love California but if we are not burning, we are running out of water or having flash floods. I'm waiting for the granddaddy of Tsunamis. Oh and don't forget the daily earthquakes somewhere in the state.
18
Pick your poison. Anywhere you in the world has its own natural disasters. That is called living on earth. Coastal areas a prone to hurricanes, flooding, etc. Midwest has their tornadoes. Seismically active areas, like California, along with not-so active areas (e.g. New Madrid Missouri) have earthquakes. The volcanic parts of the west coast, Hawaii, Alaska, etc have their own challenges. And pretty much the whole country has heat and cold waves. Wild fires are not just the west or just rural areas. As with drought.
The best we can hope to do is to manage the risks through proper planning and building codes, which is an anathema to those anti government voters of the "taker" states. They want to keep the government out of their lives.... until they want a handout from FEMA. For example, Texas was happy to accept FEMA funds but to the best of my knowledge is yet to tap their $10B rainy day fund for the ultimate rainy day...Hurricane Harvey. And I have heard of no proposed changes to their planning and building codes to address underlying preventable lax regulations. So glad my tax dollars go to support such incompetence.
32
A natural disaster can happen anywhere, but the probability of one happening in coastal area is much higher. We have Sandy, Harvey and a recent drought and the fires in California as proof. Responsible development is one aspect, but we should be steering future development away from the "Disaster Coasts" of New York, California and Texas and toward cities like Chicago, Detrioit and Cleveland.
1
The mud slides in California and loss of life and property sound a whole lot like poor building codes and poor planning, accompanied by poor emergency planning.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. California gets much more in federal aid than it pays out. It is the ultimate taker state.
1
Housing developers have no respect for nature or terrain; they will build anywhere they are allowed. They lobby, cajole, push, and virtually bribe (including but not limited to campaign contributions) elected city & county officials to override planning restrictions that would curb construction in unsafe areas like flood plains and unstable hillsides. Then, when disaster hits, the taxpayers are forced to absorb much of the cost. The resulting tragedy repeats itself, seemingly without end.
124
It’s not just developers. People want to live on those hillsides. The views of ocean and mountains are spectacular, the air cool and clean, and the immersion in nature enchanting. The best that can be hoped for is that those who build there are adequately warned and then made to bear the full cost of their losses when their homes burn or are washed away. The government subsidization of treacherously located multimillion dollar homes is insane.
25
Privatize profit, socialize losses.
1
Where I live, property taxes are the main source of local public funds and building powers the economy. City Council is mostly real estate professionals. There is ZERO resistance to building more and more, other than NIMBY for affordable housing. There is also ZERO effort to come up with a more sustainable approach.
1
It's deja vue all over again.
I lived in Ventura and owned a home in early 80's.
Some of the areas described here - I used to know like back of my hand.
And during those days, lived through similar devastation - though no so much in this area.
Montecito in particular was a beautiful place - close enough to Santa Barbara - but a lot more rustic.
Some amazing cafes with beautiful views and celebrities to be seen. Mr. Michael Douglas - the Hollywood actor - was a frequent sight.
I had bought my wife her wedding ring there.
So, my heart goes out to these folks.
It's apparently the price you pay to live in that beautiful climate.
As for me, the cost of living got too steep and left that beautiful area some years back.
24
Even after this latest disaster folks will seek to rebuild in the original spot hoping that the same disaster wont befall them next year. The utter definition of insanity.
18
And unfortunately there will be government funding to help them dig a bigger hole. I saw it first hand in the NY Metro area after Sandy (as well as MANY times before). Then when the next disaster strikes the very same people will get yet another round of federal money to rebuild. Areas that have a history of disasters need to be prohibited from rebuilding ever again.
And I'm not even going to go into the waterfront areas like Boston that are slowly sinking under water due to the imaginary climate change we aren't having.
9
Actually not to insane for a lot of these Montecito folk. They can afford to rebuild over and over again, and while the rebuilding takes place just hang out in one of their many other homes, also most likely in vulnerable areas.
2
Where do all the displaced people go? Not everyone in CA is wealthy w/ more then one home to retreat to or $ to stay at the Ritz Carlton or anywhere really. How can people work and go to school when they are homeless? CA has a huge homeless problem and this will increase those already shocking numbers.
1
My heart goes out to everyone involved. First responders. People caught in the mud. People whose homes escaped fires only to succumb to mud slides.
The number of natural disasters people are prone to in California boggles the mind. I have a son out there. Not currently in range of these events. But as time goes on and nature is more and more affected by climate change, it’s a scary place to live or for your loved ones to live.
Thanks to the Times for covering this.
27
Please. Not one place in the United States is immune from natural disasters. The Midwest has tornadoes which I suspect kill and injure more people each year than CA earthquakes and wildfires do. The entire Gulf Coast and southeast are vulnerable to hurricanes and catastrophic flooding.
16
More people have been killed in the US in the past 100 years in flooding, tornadoes and hurricanes, than earthquakes and wildfires. In fact, looking at this list one can see that there have been very few mass casualties from natural disasters in CA, other than the earthquake in San Francisco in the early 1900s, and the wildfire that caused the most deaths occurred in WI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disasters_in_the_United_States_by_...
1
This is true everywhere, not just in California.
1
No matter how devistating the fires or floods are, you won't see Mr. Trump showing up here unless he is asking for money for his defense (i mean reelection) team.
39
Do we really want him here?
16
Good - they aren't allowed here.
Unfortunately, because it's California, just like the raging wildfires previously, Trump does not care at all and will prevent the Federal government from helping out.
Remember California: Trump is your enemy, and the government will always refuse to help you. Consider secession.
30
But if we secede,are you sure you want to pay much higher prices for oranges and broccoli? Come with us!
2
great soundbite for the NYT's audience , but not true of course. Trump is going to order the US Government to not give aid to CA? You really believe that?
2
Stackhouse,
Thanks for doing your part to tear the country apart. Please explain how President Trump prevented the federal government from helping California.
1
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. This is just more evidence of climate change. Yes, these sorts of things have happened for years, but their intensity and frequency are greater. Let's get our heads out of the sand... or those other dark places we can't mention in polite society. Stop the madness of reckless indifference to unbridled fossil feul use. Get off of coal, oil and gas. While we're at it, we can disempower the Koch Brothers who want us addicted to fossil fuelishness without end so they can buy the government and disenfranchise the rest of us. Mudslides to oligarchs. They're all connected.
62
It has nothing to do with climate change. This is all about California's rapidly increasing population and the eradication of natural flood barriers caused by overdevelopment and misuse of the land.
11
Do your part . . . there is a vote coming up. We can't merely win. We have to overcome all the intrinsic built-in obstacles and we have to do it decisively. Do your part.
not climate change since this type of thing (fires and floods) are part of the natural process that has existed for thousands of years or more. It's the building of structures in these areas that it's suddendly a big problem... yeah a problem for stupid, imbecile and selfish humans who want it all like l spoiled little children.
1
Gee, when I grew up in Newark New Jersey, I thought that was dangerous.
This is like God's punishments described in the Old Testament. Is a plague of frogs coming?
I guess next they will have a 9.0 earthquake that will open a seam to the earth's core, and a volcano will form in Pasadena. Either that, or a massive meteor will crash into the Rose Bowl.
14
No, there won't be a 9+ earthquake in California. The highest the faults there can go is 8. However, if you moved a bit north (starting in Mendocino County), and the entire Oregon and Washington coast), you could have a 9+. Look for "The Really Big One". Of course, the northernmost part of California, Oregon and Washington have the volcano chain to match.
Actually, California does have active volcanoes.
We have a massive plague of coqui frogs here in Hawaii county. Now we’re being overrun by boars. Armageddon indeed!
1
In the U.S., including California, we've suppressed fires we could have let burn and built our homes where where fires are eventually sure to burn. We've extracted and burned oil and gas and coal, heating the oceans and the atmosphere in the process. Lately, though, nature has had more of a say in our affairs, with hurricanes and temperatures far below freezing, monster fires and now monster mudflows.
In that light, the federal government's desire to open the coastal waters of the U.S. to unrestricted drilling for oil makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
209
Worse, the State with 25% of ALL the earthquake activity in the US (at least until Oklahoma got into the act!) is fracking.
We could be a leader in clean energy but no, we ceded that to Germany, Scandinavia and China. Boy, are we paying the price!
4
"Whether our leaders know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has a longer memory and a sterner sense of justice."
Wendell Berry
5
Trump is the one opening the waters to drilling.
He also recently maneuvered to removed safety regulations put in place after the BP disaster.
He calls himself a Stable Genius.
But everyone knows he's a liar.
7
We do indeed have four seasons: fire, flood, earthquake and drought.
We live in this marvelous land, but at times in significant peril.
88
Important for people to understand that earthquakes don't have seasons and that, contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as "earthquake weather".
4
Don't forget the 5th season, wind, Santa Anas to be exact! I lived through all five in L.A.!
4
To give readers an idea of the power of these sorts of events, back in the mid-60s, my brother was working as an insurance claims adjustor for a major fire and casualty company in Southern California. One day, subsequent to a serious rain storn/mud slide, he took me to the site of a home which had been destroyed by such a slide. The home was located in the foothills above Burbank, a typical ranch-style design. By the time we visited the property, the mud had settled to a depth which left the height from the top of the mud to the ceiling at about four feet. The slide had punched a garage door-size hole in the rear wall, passed through the home and out the front wall, sweeping the unsuspecting owner and his grand piano down a canyon to his death. It was a devastating scene which I have never forgotten.
96
Mr. Ratigan, I can't imagine how you would not have nightmares after seeing such a horrific sight. Thank goodness little Manitowoc has never seen nor suffered such devastation.
Thank you for sharing this story.
(Former 1950s Manitowoc resident).
18
Thank you, Marge. I've read some of the histories you have written, including that of the Clio Club, of which my wife is a member. Thank you for those.
1
Wow. What a terrible situation. Besides the potential impact of the current rain and California's preparedness to handle it, we must begin to think of the future.
Don't build on hillsides or precipices, don't clear cut, don't live in the path of a hillslide. Developers will build anywhere they can, that doesn't mean you should buy there. If you can, relocate. It's time for some serious thinking about where to live nowadays.
I hope everyone in harm's way can escape this current weather assault. Take care.
96
In this case, your advice is misplaced. These mudslides are due to the fires in Nov and Dec that raged in the hillsides in Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties. Those hillsides were denuded by the intensity of the fires. The Forest Service did not have enough time to reseed and grow ground cover to hold the soil in place.
Bad luck, those fires, and worse luck that for the next month or so is Californias' rainy season.
12
Please!
Please! Do not speak of what you are so removed form, without real understanding.
I am from Santa Barbara, and know many people whose houses where wiped out, who were supposedly not in the path of mudslides. They were NOT in the mandatory evacuation zones that were declared a few days before the rains came. They were is a FLAT area, near the freeway, NOT up on the hills.
The downpour was so fierce - 1 inch PER HOUR - in a few areas. Nobody could have predicted what happened. Rivers a mus came down from the recently burned hills that had no vegetation to hold them. Rivers of mud that found their way all the way down to the ocean.
No one was safe, after the terrible - and largest - fire in the history of California.
2
The only time I was in California was when I flew back from Vietnam to Travis AF Base and hopped a plane from San Francisco to Georgia. Unlike my other hippie friends, I never made the pilgrimage there. With it weather extremes and geological dangers, why do so many people want to live there?
6
Maybe they're willing to risk fires, mudslides and earthquakes because they hate the blizzards in Minneapolis, Chicago, and Boston. I'm scared of earthquakes and tolerant of snow and hurricane remnants so living on the Eastern Seaboard doesn't bother me, but some people really hate snow.
18
Because it is gorgeous, the weather is typically awesome, and it's fun to live here.
46
Sir: If you have never been there, you cannot understand the magnetism of this particular landscape. Mountains sweeping down to the sea. The blue, blue sky. It has a particularly unparalleled beauty to it, and the dangers have long been down-played by anyone and everyone who chooses, against all odds, to live there. Nevertheless, it has an apocalyptic feel to it these days, and I, for one, am particularly happy to have moved on recently. Heartbroken over the suffering.
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I so wish you would publish maps pinpointing the affected area when you report news like this. Please?
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I use google maps.
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I agree -- however, the first photo showing HWY 101 through Montecito is remarkable. It is a stretch of FWY that follows the El Camino Real (the 18th/19th century Spanish trail) along the coastal cities through California -- through the heart of Montecito and Santa Barbara. It is the main road. I've traveled that stretch of HWY a zillion times, and I am in shock to see the surface burried in 6 feet of mud. It looks to be right at Olive Mill Road.
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"Mudslides closed a stretch of Highway 101, the key artery along the coast south from Santa Barbara, and Los Angeles County was also drenched, with muddy water rushing down hillsides."
It was only a few months ago when the country was reading of the ravaging fires that spread to Santa Barbara county and jumped over Highway 101. Man, residents of California can't seem to catch a break.
My husband and I are very familiar with the area effected because we were there in early November, visiting family and friends. We were home barely a few days when the fires started. Have not heard from them since these mudslides began. I am keeping positive and hopeful thoughts that they are safe. Somehow the winter we've been experiencing seems pale in comparison.
Deepest condolences to those who perished in these mudslides.
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Sorry, but you say... "A few" months ago, you were reading about the fires in Santa Barbara? It was LESS THAN A MONTH AGO that fire was raging... The Thomas Fire started December 4th. Evacuations in Santa Barbara /Montecito were lifted on on December 21 BUT the fire, 92% contained on December 30, was still burning in the back country, when the rains started.
1
We were there the middle of November for a few weeks (two months ago today). I thought the fires started the end of November. Excuse my foggy memory and if I mislead anyone. There's been so much devastation in your beautiful state and local, time seems to blend.
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No worries. Emotions are running high right now. Thank you for your thoughts.
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I lived and worked in Santa Barbara for more than two and a half decades so I have a lot of experience with that red adobe mud that comes off the hills there and one thing in particular that makes it troublesome is that it sticks to everything.
In the 1980s the scars from the Coyote Fire could still be seen near SB & that fire occurred in 1964 but there was a huge difference in the structures that were lost from the Coyote Fire - it was mostly large estates and ranches that burned and not the subdivisions that sprang up following the introduction of state water via a pipeline from the north.
The hillsides and canyons near Santa Barbara are steeper than most of the coast outside of Big Sur and they're almost all sedimentary conglomerate. These types of rocks are prone to cause slides even without fires.
It's a tragedy that was bound to happen but for myself I lament the loss of the nearshore community of plants and animals - the mudslides and debris will smother the reefs and kelp beds - of one of the last relatively healthy marine ecosystems in Southern California. Most have been wiped out by sewage and siltation from decades of building along the coast plus the dumping of sewage into shallow waters.
Kelp beds once lined the shores from Pt Conception to Pt Dume with only a few breaks and silt will weaken the few that are left. Kelp helped to suppress storm surge and slowed erosion. Once the beds are gone purple sea urchins will make sure they don't return.
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Thank you for caring enough to reveal what happens when we pollute the land and the ocean.
5
I wish YOU were running for President!
California has every right to fight the Trump administration tooth and nail on climate change.
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such ignorance!
read a little bit, might be helpful
16
Climate drives weather, i.e., scientists tell us that the changing climate is leading to extremes in weather. And, perhaps a fire season that now can verge into winter
16
Weather is part of climate, and it's clear that climate change, particularly warming seas, makes weather more extreme.
3
Truly amazing that the President has never made a trip to California to see the catastrophic damage done by the wild fires. He went to Houston right away. He seems spend time in only the limited parts of the country where he knows will be warmly received. Look where he tries to do all his rallies. The President should come and meet the people of the West Coast some time.
207
Be careful what you wish for...
38
Most of us are not his base of voters, and we never will be. Trump has made it clear that he represents only those who support him.
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George W Bush visited every state during his Presidency, other than Vermont. Perhaps the fact that there was a warrant for his arrest issued by the Town of Brattleboro (Dick Cheney was also subject to arrest as well) had something to do with it. More recently, Cheney was invited to Orvis in Vermont for some kind of fishing event. He also declined to attend.
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