Why is the Times using N. Eberstadt as an authority without identifying his employer the American Enterprise Institute as an arch-conservative think tank pushing its own propagandistic view of world events? Objectivity does not flow from that source often or ever.
1
There is a mountain of money riding on continued tensions on the Korean peninsula - in case you were wondering why Washington and its loyal media partners are so concerned about peace breaking out in Korea.
Also, the accompanying picture is meant to fool readers into thinking that talks with the north aren't a popular idea in S Korea. The truth is, 66% of South Koreans support diplomacy over Washington militarism.
https://qz.com/1081146/north-korea-hostilities-boost-us-defense-contract...
http://www.dw.com/en/international-gallup-poll-diplomacy-rather-than-war...
I do not like Trump and the thought of a limited war with N.K. is absurd as there is no such thing as a limited war and we know nothing about N.K's military prepardness, except that they have been prparing for war for decades and we have not. Certainly any military attack will bring about cyber attacks against us as a minimum and they will be severe.
But one must give credit where it is due and it is Trumps actions that have brought N.Korea to the table with S.K.
This is no charm offensive. This is part of North Korea's continuing offensive.
I can't help but think that the families of the North Korean athletes will be in grave danger if they do not win. I'd bet there will be pressure on the athletes, knowing that their families will be injured or killed or put into internment camps if the athlete does not win. Kim Jong-in is a maniac who wants to win. Everything.
It's just more distraction and manipulation. They have been exposed as barely hanging on by their fingernails through the escape of two elite DMZ border guards who were malnourished and at least one was riddled with parasites.
If that is the condition of their Elite guards........
So yea they are loud mouthed and may have a nuclear weapon or two but they are also very near the edge of collapse.
Let them come and play but do not give them so much as a grain of rice! That was the mistake Clinton made which is why they didn't collapse due to the failure of their ideas 20 years ago.
BTW everything they do is at the behest of China. They were created by China and have always served as a proxy and buffer for China. In the current case China is trying to get the US out of the western Pacific. From my POV the Kennedy speech to the USSR over the Cuban Missile Crisis is the only correct response by the US to this Chinese aggression.
Surely characterizing Kim Young'un as "deft" simply for doing something less alarming than usual is hype. Everyone can see through this, unless they are willfully trying not to. Perhaps a few of the most wishful South Korean progressives might fall for it, but someone as experienced as Moon Jae-In can't be that dumb. And is anyone else buying it?
The U.S.–S. Korea alliance has had its ups and downs, this too will pass soon and be forgotten except as another case study in the duplicity of the DPRK and its leaders. The real issue is whether President Demento here in the U.S. will upset things with his deranged policy swerves and unhinged tweets.
Just show the whole delegation the new IPhone and some good food. Kim knows that if he opens up to much his people will see his ineptitude
Washington and its loyal journalists will do everything they can to prevent peace from breaking out. And don't let the accompanying picture of a handful of S Korean demonstrators fool you, 66% of S Koreans want diplomacy rather than US militarism - and most of the world is with them.
http://www.dw.com/en/international-gallup-poll-diplomacy-rather-than-war...
1
Short of an all-out cataclysmic war which completely destroys the NK Regime (and this means invasion and occupation), this is a crisis which is impossible to resolve, primarily because NK knows that the US is not willing to inflict and endure the massacre necessary to get the job done. Thank God that this was not the attitude with Hitler, or he would have won WWII.
25 years have proven that negotiations are used by NK only to buy time and gain economic concessions. NK will never give up its nuclear weapons, not because it NEEDS them for self-defense, but because it needs them to BLACKMAIL the US, SK, Japan and even China to allow the Regime to survive in perpetuity as an absolute dictatorship.
There is not the slightest doubt that blackmail and coercion, and the payment of "protection money" by SK and others, is the name of NK's game. I wonder how much money SK is paying NK to ensure that the Olympic Games are not disrupted.
Uncertain is whether, in addition, NK intends to forcibly reunify the Peninsula under its control once it manages to sever the US/SK Defense Alliance. This may seem far fetched, and indeed may perhaps only be internal propaganda to maintain an oversized posture of nationalistic militarism, yet it remains enshrined in NK's Constitution, and cannot be dismissed outright.
Even without the threat of forcible reunification, we can absolutely expect NK to extract the payment of "tribute" from SK for many more years to come, and no relinquishing of nukes
Trump's been played.
Maybe North Korea is running very short of oil. That's what happened in Japan, right before Pearl Harbor.
1
When will everyone realize the N Koreans are just buying time. Stop them NOW!
I hope it is a new beginning of a new relations between the North and South Koreas. I think Kim Jong-UN wanted to show off his North Korean winter sports talents including ice skating stars and other winter sports. As in Manchuria North Korea is extremely cold during the winter season and many young people were interested in winter sports, I also understand that Kim's younger sister is also interested in ice skating and he will send his sister to represent the North Korean government to attend this 2018 Winter Olympics in South Korea as a good well gesture since Kim Jong-UN will be unable to attend. There is a great anticipation going on now in South Korea. After all they are Koreans. Just like East and West Germans before the end of Cold War. I have many friends in South Korea and I was invited by Kim Jong-Il, the father of Kim Jong-UN to attend North Korea's National Day celebration about 8 years ago. Since I can't visit North Korea and I thanked him through the UN contacts. I am happy for this new development. Lets hope for the best. I plan to watch the winter Olympics Games on TV.
1
Kim will give peace when he won his end game: a unified, nuclear Korea with him as king. Why not ? The Brits have a monarch, and nukes, and we are not scared of them.
The murderous North Korean regime has threatened a nuclear attack on the US and its allies on several occasions over the past few years. Even a weak Barack Obama told the incoming president-elect that North Korea would be his most pressing foreign policy problem.
As such, while it is certainly welcome that the two Koreas are talking, we should not forget that any dialogue short of dismantling the North Korean nuclear threat is not in our best interests. We should not ever live under a North Korean nuclear treat even if the South Koreans are fine with that.
Many Koreans do NOT want the fake Détente, they say. They are terrified of a Million-dollar-bill behind this false gesture. Every passage between South Korea and North should be closely monitored. The delivery of million dollars must be blocked at any cost. If not, the unauthentic Détente will threaten world PEACE, as well as South Korean.
1
These talks are a positive step in the right direction. But can Kim Jong-un be trusted? I don't think so. He has duped the West before and I really don't think that he is done playing his games of duplicity.
1
As a person living next to a US airbase in Japan avoiding war on the Korean peninsula is what we should do at any cost. I do not want to see millions slaughtered on my watch, let alone my flesh scorched. And I do not think this is an unattainable hope, rather it is easily accomplished if we treat the villain as if a world-class statesman. This is a welcoming move.
At the end of the day, people in both Koreas share the same heritage and had been the same people before the Korean War divided up one country. They are the same people. Therefore, peace among the same people should exist and maintained.
Kim Jong Un is an evil dictator who murders family members , deprives his subjects of basic human freedoms, and would rather his people starve than change one policy to reduce the economic sanctions on his country.
He did not and never will become a trusted head of state who has any goal in international relations other than to enhance his stature and reinforce his dictatorial role.
Anything he does, definitely including this latest ploy to be involved in the Olympics must be viewed with suspicion and skepticism. The leopard theory is rarely wrong.
1
Relationship is the master organizing principle of the Cosmos. It is also the only reliable resource for security in the world today. When the Koreas talk, security improves. Dialogue beats military every time. If we are going to survive into this century and beyond, we shall need to build a global community with a culture that works for the benefit of all life.
For those who doubt the power of relationship, I recommend the TEDx talk here: https://youtu.be/mUm82W7B2BY. Then examine this list: https://alternatives2war.com/list.html.
Nothing is more important right now than the emergence of a permanent, multinational, shift in identity, relationship and culture. If you want your kids and grandkids to have a world worthy of their delicate souls, work on this! Go to https://loveshift.org to learn more. Watch the videos there. Share your thinking. Enter the Save the World Contest. Have a discussion with family and friends. Working together, we CAN make a difference!
1
Kim doesn't need further missile testing. All he has to do is announce that he can hit everywhere in the US. Trump may contradict him, but who believes Trump about anything? Will Trump suddenly rely on intelligence estimates after discrediting his intelligence agencies? We're stuck with Trump, and stuck with nuclear NK. Right now Kim is acting and Trump is reacting. Trump looks much smaller than Kim. He's been outplayed.
What do the US want the Koreans to do? Reading articles after articles by some of the finest journalist, I am still to find a reasonable solution to the unnatural division that our arrogance have created. It probably came into being as a result of what we called 'cold war' mentality.
We should get out of their way and let the two brothers sort it out. They both are Koreans let them live in peace Mr. Trump. For you it may be a game but war is a matter of life and death for the two Koreans involved.
It may be bad for MIC businesses, but for God’s sake give peace a chance.
1
The two Koreas were produced by the victors USSR/USA deciding to divide the peninsula and two American officers sat down with a Reader’s Digest map and drew a line at the 38th parallel but it has a history and President Moon and Kim Jong-un know it.
The Olympic issue is an opening for further discussions if they wish but both know who still is in the room; why the fuss? Talks are desirable for all.
If east and West Berlin governments can work its wonder, why not North & South Korea? On the other hand, if this happens, it would save a lot of tax money by sending troops home instead of paying them overseas expenses and bonus. We can use the saving for infrastructure rebuilt or cut down deficit. Why not? It is a good thing, isn't it?
North Korea is a nuclear state whether Trump recognizes that fact or not. No nation in history, having come into possession of nuclear weapons by it's own initiative, has ever returned to a non-nuclear state.
The next step should be for South Korea to end the almost constant so called "war games" with American military forces. These military exercises do nothing for defensive preparedness because they are offensive in nature.
There is little likelihood that NK, having armed themselves with nuclear capability, will ever use a nuclear weapon. Even Mr Kim knows that his nation would cease to exist in that scenario and all of his rhetoric is simply talk. The real geopolitical situation on the Korean peninsula demands that all parties stand down from threats and recognize that NK will not, and should not, relinquish their nuclear weapons. The final solution should take the form of signing treaties to end the Korean War, having American military forces leave South Korea and executing mutual defense treaties between Asian members, South Korea, China, Russia and Japan.
North Korea will not change quickly but change will come as military threats recede and the country finds a new and better way of living.
After Germany and almost every People is united, unification of the two Koreas remain the only task ahead for the concerned International community. Let the Koreans be united and that will usher in enormous bounty in each area benefiting the World.
Is there anyone on the planet, that is surprised by what South Korea is doing?
They are trying to save their country, and stay alive.
They know that they can't count on the United States to protect them anymore.
Trump might push "his big button" at any given time, for whatever reason he wants.
Then millions of South Koreans will die in an instant, at the whim of a "really stable genius".
So of course they're opening up talks with North Korea. Of course they're trying to make their own deals and treaties.
What other choice do they have?
What other choice, did we give them?
1
Caveat Emptor -- don't forget who started it all in 1950.
Like it or not, this is a ripple effect from the splash Trump made with NK.
I could never wish ny police state or theocracy well in any way, but trump i pretty bad and what might frustrate him is at least funny.
The “Sunshine” spirit of the noble former presidents Kim Dae-jung and Jimmy Carter brought almost five years of near-freeze to the process of nuclearization in the Korean peninsula. Now president Moon Jae-in is following the same principles of giving chance to the possibility of settlements before succumbing to Realist necessities. The “Agreed Framework” spirit was squashed around 2000 by the U.S. practically abrogating on its aid commitments and North Korea incipient violating of the terms of the agreement.
As long as Pyongyang keeps suspending its nuclear and missile tests and the U.S. allows Moon enough freedom of action, there’s a chance.
Better then the fire & fury rhetoric with threats of imminent nuclear war between us and them. But always beware of Jong's bearing gifts.
Ironically, Donald Trump is achieving something unthinkable a few months ago.
Both leaders of South and North Korea are willing to talk due to the threat for both countries of an unhinged/unstable American president.
Who knows? using the Chinese approach towards Taiwan/Hong Kong, the Korea Peninsula might be reunited as 'One country, two systems.'
2
Looking at North Korea's track record, it's leader is just trying to buy time while he's working on the next bomb so no one will kill him like Libya's leader was killed (for lack of a bomb)! Keeping this in mind, we ought to try our best for a peaceful solution to this nightmarish problem.
Once again, the US will be holding the bag once Kim tricks the South...again.
The natural state of a small nation caught between two large powers is to be neutral.
Obama did not see it this way. His TTP was attempt to integrate S. Korea into the the US power sphere . With joint US - S. Korean military exercises as a back up.
Trump is an isolationist could not care less if Korea is neutral.
That is much more acceptable to China, that pulls the strings in N. Korea.
This development is the result of a changed US policy.
That is all.
Many of the comments here may not face the reality. some of them are naive and unrealistic. Kim Jung Eun of NK and his regime is no more than heinous and inhuman that is why many of South Korean, maybe a half of the population over age over 50th those who had or near experienced the Korean War, oppose this dialogue because we know that NK is not pursuing any peace talk rather than belligerence or pursuing advantage.
NK had been pursuing a diplomatic recognition from U.S. as nuke possession counterpart which did not work well so far thus NK turn their back to SK anytime if U.S. offer a any gesture.
1
This article contains much speculation on future diplomacy between North and South Korea. Right now all that is going to happen for sure is that the North will attend the Olympics. The talks were probably not needed for the North to do that. Any possible developments outside the Olympics will or will not occur in the very near future. My bet is that all this speculation will come to nothing. I really don't see the point of so much speculation on large changes in the relations between the South and the North based only on an agreement to attend the Olympics.
This is what should've been happening all along. The two sides dealing with things directly. Instead, other nations have decided to interject on behalf of both sides. No wonder nothing has happened for 60 years.
Give NK a chance. Pursuit of peaceful economic ties is what turned Taiwan from an authoritative regime into a full fledged democracy. There has been more blood shed on Taiwan soil after the KMT regime took control of the Island than between the two Koreas since 1953. The fact that there hasn't been boarder rushes and a full escalation of war since 1953 is good enough reason to argue now is the time to normalize relations.
Read Henry Kissinger's book On China. It provides some insight into what this action by Kim may mean and what the future could bring. North Korea is not China, but there is a long history here and similarities of thought and action are noted that are reminiscent of Chinese leaders of the past.
Detente seems too optimistic. N. Korea's history of using talks for its own advantage and never abiding by any agreements that come out of such talks make me very skeptical that anything new will be accomplished. It's especially interesting that it's warming to S. Korea not only ahead of the Olympics (which suits its needs), but also now that it appears to be in a pretty strong position from a nuclear perspective. It sounds to me like the country was waiting until it was too late for anyone to change the facts on the ground, and now it will come asking for sanctions relief without offering anything important in return.
Athletes want to compete on a world stage, have the best coaches, and a shot at endorsement riches. None of which is available in North Korea.
Undoubtedly, some North Koreans will try to defect. How will this be handled by the South Koreans? And what will the repercussions be? Having North Korean athletes competing will create unforeseen incidents and issues.
1
Right now I am rooting heavily for Kim Jong-il to act out of sanity and common sense, having more or less given up on finding that quality in a particular other person. I don't like his appparent goal of continuing his role of oppressing his own people, but avoiding nuclear war has a nice feel to it. North Koreans would be among those slaughtered in that. Sometimes we are stuck with the least bad choices.
3
Kim Jong-il? Last I checked Kim Jong-un was in charge, unless Kim Jong-il somehow came back from the dead.
It may be the door now opening will not close and the Korean peninsula will unite without strings attached to any foreign interest. Like any ethnic group they are one people and are able to solve their problems without the arrogance of external intervention. I wish them well.
11
But America wishes ‘Indo-Pacific’ to be its focus with Japan, India, Australia and New Zealand to form up so is not likely to let South Korea away so easily. And it will take talks involving the US for any real release of tensions. United Korea will be a long time coming.
President Moon is a fool if he gives NK a platform at the Olympics in exchange for nothing.
Why is the USA continuing to spend vast amounts of money defending South Korea? With NK's nuclear arsenal now a fact, US soldiers in SK are now de facto hostages with no reasonable military purpose. The US should get them out now. NK is no longer the vanguard of an international Communist empire. It is a small rogue state run by a nut. Let SK defend itself. It is now a wealthy nation and can afford to do so.
If China and the rest of the world will not unite to denuclearize NK, then the US should withdraw conventional forces and adopt a defensive posture of missile defense and massive retaliation if NK threats continue.
13
There is much to be said for this posture, and indeed I would support it but for the regrettable fact that any withdrawal of US forces from the Korean Peninsula as a result of NK's achievement of its nuclear objectives, would be the death-knell of ALL other US Defense Alliances worldwide, starting with NATO.
In essence, a US withdrawal would signal that the US will "cut and run" if the military threat becomes sufficiently great. This only encourages countries like Iran to follow suit, and even for Russia to seriously consider taking back the Baltic States (Russia hesitates doing so because of the diplomatic and economic consequences, and not for military reasons).
If the US abandons SK, what stops the US from eventually also abandoning Japan, Australia, Saudi Arabia, and NATO? What US ally will place any further credence in a defensive treaty?
You are right, it's crazy for the US to continue defending a country which should have the ability to defend itself, and which should no longer be supported once it plays into NK's game of blackmail, thereby undercutting the sanctions and other pressures being brought to bear against NK.
But, unfortunately, the idea of pulling out is a non-starter for the US, for the reasons outlined above.
Ground forces + nuclear capability is an over match for ground forces alone. So South Korea really cannot defend itself without outside back up.
Absolutely. The South has been free-riding of our military presence for years, allowing to maintain a state of perpetual adolsecence regarding the DPRK.
If they expect us to provide 30,000 Americans as human shields, they must understand that our patience for their naivete is limited.
Time to plan a withdrawal from South Korea. If the South really want to be adults, they can build their own nukes and defend themselves.
This is NK's MO over and over--they rattle sabres, blow off some nukes or attack a boat, shoot something up. Then they make nice and the US and South Korea give them fuel, rice and cabbage, NK gets friendly for a while, and then we do military exercises, and NK acts up again. For decades it has been the same program. So send them their cabbages already.
15
It’s not because we do some military excercises that they “act up”...they take advantage of some of our inherent naïveté that, “oh this time they mean it” as they continue their weapons work apace.
Anyone who believes that the NK's have had an overnight change of heart is a fool. We've been played for over 50 years through multiple administrations and nothing has changed in their attitude or relentless drive to profit as a criminal organization. Why we have tolerated this insect empire for so long is beyond me. Crush the bugs now.
4
Of course North Korea has their own agenda, and they are going to try to wring maximum advantage out of the situation, what did you expect? The people in South Korea are adults, they also have the most risk if the situation goes to war. They should take the lead.
I believe Trump has served a useful purpose. Given the possibility of having to deal with a madman, the North Koreans have decided their best bet is to deal with people they understand. We should let them try to work this out, even if they agree to terms we don't like, it is THEIR countries, not ours.
8
It was reported that Kim Jong-un was reported to have said " Suckers ".
The Olympic Committee was reported to have said " Oh Lordy , thank you for this salvation".
The North will bamboozle the Stupid South again, the South will foolish provide aid and the North will again lite off rockets and H-bombs.
5
Blatant editorializing by the Times in labeling NK's actions a "charm offensive." It primes readers to distrust any goodwill gestures from the other side. (And of course reciprocal gestures from SK or the West are quickly called "appeasement.") Clearly enemies who seek to defuse a dangerous situation face an uphill battle against public opinion. As for "driving a wedge" - I say let the wedge be driven. Should the two Koreas move closer together under any political or economic compromise, even if it puts them more in China's ambit than ours, the world as a whole will gain.
5
Perestroika and Glasnost evolved from the contact we made with the USSR thanks to music, ballet, art and the Olympics. We should stand down while the two Koreans work out the details, but having the North at these Winter Olympics is a good thing. Any kind of peaceful contact is especially if it is done on the world's stage like the Olympics.
7
It could be a pretext for invasion of the south during the olympics when the north korean team needs to be Protected from some danger.
The main issue is amnesty for kim from crimes against humanity. With this amnesty he can abdicate and the 2 koreas can unite like germany.
North Korea has played this game for decades of alternating between outrageous threats of war, then overtures which appear more conciliatory than they actually are simply because of their prior outrageous threats. This tactic has repeated worked marvelously for them to gain concessions and gifts from US presidents. In doing so, the North Korean dictators have made monkeys out of our prior presidents, Clinton, Bush, and Obama.
The question is whether Trump will join the list of monkeys played and beaten by North Korea. I am neither a Trump hater nor a Trump fan. I hope he can be successful where Clinton, Bush, and Obama have failed so miserably. But I have no confidence that Trump will succeed where they failed. Trump fancies himself as a great negotiator. I suspect he thinks far more highly of his skills than is deserved.
2
This is a positive turn. However, as many have noted, the spotlight is on North and South Korean leaders, not on Trump. Therefore, it is only a matter of time before Trump tries to disrupt the momentary peace and progress transpiring on the Korean Peninsula in an attempt to garner the attention and gratitude he believes he is owed. The result could be an increase in cooperation among East Asian neighbors and coordinated resistance to the United States. That would infuriate Trump, who has a history of seeking to destroy any party he believes has slighted him. That would leave the United States as the isolated nuclear power with a dangerous and unpredictable leader threatening the safety of numerous nations.
#25thAmendment
6
I think the Olympics are a sideshow regarding these "peace talks." The US-Led UN Sanctions are having a devastating effect on North Korea. And unfortunately they're affecting the citizenship more than the government. (This is why I hate sanctions, the population seem to suffer most.) Mr. Moon Jae-in would like to do more for North Korea but he has limited actions bound by the sanctions in place. I'm guessing they could funnel in supplies as the Chinese are doing, anything to help. This is a good first step but these negotiations have always gone no-where. I'd like to see Trump do a 180 and publicly support these talks, instead of taking credit for them.
1
Please world let us give peace a chance because our kids depend on it. We need to work with everyone around the world to make the world a safer and better world.
5
This diplomatic gesture by North Korea to open a channel of dialogue with South Korea before the Winter Olympics is likely to preserve the status quo. Keeping the status quo serves the national interests of China (which does not want a U.S. military presence on its border), North Korea (which wants to keep its existing nuclear weapons program), and South Korea (which prefers to have a direct channel of communication in the event of a crisis).
After the Winter Olympics end in late February, I think the North Korean regime will return to its "business as usual" tactics. Hopefully, the direct line of communication with South Korea can be preserved beyond late February.
5
North Korea's expressed willingness to partake of the Wintet Olympics is largely a tactical retreat from its aggressive nuclear and missile provocations--a pause from its inexorable pursuit of the nuclear state that is able to take on the United States by deterrance.
Confronted with a new round of stinging sanctions and unpredictably bellicose rhetoric from Trump, Pyongyang now appears to want heightened tension relaxed for two purposes: buying time for the perfection of nuclear and missile technology and extracting any sort of concessions from South Korea.
South Korea should reject any reciprocal demands from the North since, the sports participation is, after all, never a favor or benefit to Seoul.
Unfortunately, the liberal administration--in intense aspiration to revive engagment policy that the two previous conservative presidents discontinued--is deeply interested in turning the talks into a prelude to broader inter-Korean coordination on concerned issues.
A potentially extended talks will give Mr. Moon a shot in approval ratings, which is a political boost for Mr. Moon presumably seeing the poll as a decisive opportunity to stamp out reactionary die-hard right wingers that has stood behind impeached President Park.
This means an expanded dialogue could be a convergence of political interests on both sides. But I don't believe it will be likely to make a big difference in the present nuclear standoff as the North will stick to the nuclear armament.
2
I have always been a fan of the olympics and how it can be used to bring countries together from around the world. Unfortunately, the olympics can be used as propaganda. I hope these talks will help in future pease talks between these countries.
1
The election of Moon Jae-in last year already signaled South Korea's support for rapprochement with the nuclear-armed North Korea. For the past decade, South Koreans politicians and citizens have tacitly acknowledged North Korea as a nuclear power--this has been obvious since the first detonation in 2006. For South Koreans, this new thaw simply restores normalcy before Park Geun-hye's confrontational leadership. For North Koreans, the latest successful tests proved the point that it possesses intercontinental missile capabilities, and this is all they needed to do: a credible capacity to hit the U.S. with retaliatory nuclear strikes. If we view this new reality in a sober way, it does little to change the position of North Korea vis-a-vis South Korea and the United States: North Korea is still an impoverished, oppressive state. However, this new reality fundamentally alters how Kim Jong-un's regime is viewed by the North Koreans themselves and by China and Russia who can no longer view North Korea as a client state in old the Cold War order. If both South and North Koreas are getting what they want, where does that leave the United States? Donald Trump's rhetoric and theatrics played right into North Korea's hands: while the "Dotard" ranted and raved about "Rocket Man," Kim Jung-un consolidated his position in North Korea, put a wedge between South Korea and China over the THAAD system, and got Russia back into Korean affairs as an honest broker for peace against Trump.
1
God help us if the two Koreas walk in together at the Olympics. The South would be showing the world that they are together and one with one of the most heinous and inhumane regimes in the world. It would brand South Korea in a terrible way but also, what is SK. trying to gain by negotiating and appeasing the North? I think we can say at this point that unification is not a viable option through anything S.K. or the U.S. can do. N.K. is not going to give up their nuclear ambitions. All we can do at this point, and this include S.K., is to maintain a relationship that doesn't escalate hostilities. There is no need to keep crawling back to the negotiations table as the North will not truly give up anything while continuing to receive concessions from the South.
For the U.S., I doubt that Trump or even any future presidents can rid of the missiles pointed at us. We should continue to isolate and sanction the North but cease the useless hostile talk and concentrate on developing a better anti-missile technology. N.K. will only get better if something happens from within that country.
17
South Korea is in a state of perpetual denial because the truth (NK will attack the South when the time is right) is too horrible to face.
How can endless sanctions ever work to restore peace to both the Korean Peninsula & the world at large? If we truly took sanctions to the end of the line with North Korean what good do you think will happen? Do you think we should sanction them until they start to starve to death? Should we sanction them until they become 100% isolated & independent from the entire world, which could be viable considering how well they have managed their nuclear program? By sanctioning then until they give up we are clearly making them do something they would not ever choose to do, which is pure bullying. The Koreans have had their country torn in half!!! How do you think the South has nothing to gain from unification, the rupture of their country only happened within the past century, that’s not a wound that heals without leaving scar tissue. I don’t think the North is bullying anyone by making a nuclear program, maybe they really do just want to have more even footing to negotiate with countries like the USA, who use their power to bully others. Subjugating any part of the Korean Peninsula to external countries hasn’t worked in the past. Let the North & South try & reunify, trust that each country knows what it wants. The USA acts with transparent self interest in foreign deals like this, our country does not provide neutral mitigation for anyone, seems like
It should be noted that we're entering an "East Asian" cycle with regard to the Olympics--South Korea in 2018, Japan in 2020, and China in 2022. Sports may seem innocuous and silly, but there may some real opportunities over the next 4 years for the Northeast Asia region to make progress towards defusing tensions.
No major interstate war has occurred in East Asia since the brief Vietnam-China border war in early 1979, 39 years ago. It's an impressive record of achievement. Since 1979, China has embarked on the most successful poverty reduction program in history. South Korea has become an OECD member state and democratized. Japan has come down to earth following the crash of its insane, asset-inflated bubble economy in the 1980s--and while there has been pain in the post-crash years, Japan remains remarkably wealthy and stable. Tokyo is the safest major city on earth and way more affordable for non-rich people than either New York or London.
East Asians aren't stupid. They're not going to blow this. They understand North Korea better than outsiders like Donald Trump and Lindsey Graham. They're not going to throw away nearly 40 years of peace and prosperity.
29
Sometimes, Trump getting played is a good thing!
6
Looks more like Trump played the rocket man.
3
Do you know the meaning of 'played' Wesley?
Do people really think that Kim is trying to do anything else than messing with the US-SK relationship and buying some time for his missile program? You are either incredibly naive or outrageously hypocritical.
As much as I loathe Trump and most of his administration, I am convinced that having him as president is a hundred times better than living under Kim.
6
Maybe the North wants to visit the South to get things like toilet paper.
You can google to see a satellite photo of North and South Korea at night. North Korea is completely in the dark. A perfect example of how government control of an economy ruins it.
6
A perfect example, yes, but not of your simplistic anti-government nonsense.
2
I think he was referring to a communist dictatorship not commenting on American government.
Many a war has been won when a nation has let down its guard and believed what a psychopath like Kim Jong-un has said . I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him!
More like he's sending in spies to recruit more double agents. Whatever the means to an end the North Korean leader is using - he's up to no good as a leopard never changes his spots.
Could also be a diversionary tactic to take his populations mind off bombing one of their own cities during their last nuclear test. Scary to think that such an irresponsible numbskull has the power to carry out nuclear testing, even if he did accidentally bomb one of his own cities.
4
And the Neville Chamberlain award goes to the newly elected President of North Korea.
4
Errr...that would be SOUTH Korea.
3
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Whatever Kim's rationale, he has chosen an opportune moment for these meetings. Our allies around the world know that trump is unstable, erratic, ignorant, petty and vindictive. They know his cabinet is a cast of clowns, from Tillerson, to Mnuchin to Haley (OMG).
South Korea knows this as well.
Would you rely on donald trump?
7
Tribalism trumps Trump!
4
Translation: Kim Jong Un needs money and food. He'll play any game to deceive South Korea to make common cause with him. Once the South joins in, they will combine economic prowess with a fledling nuclear force and succeed in scaring the USA long enough to extort from it promises to be left alone.
6
Little Rocket Man puts Stable Genius in his rocket's rear view mirror.
10
Driving a wedge between the U.S. and S. Korea in a time when the U.S. cannot be trusted. Kim Jong-un is playing this so smart. Not exactly the raving madman U.S. propaganda likes to paint him as, eh?
11
Kim may be outwitting that fella with the bigger button.
5
He only outwits Trump and the rest of us if we fall for the charade.
I think this has less to do with Trump and nukes and more to do with the desire for shiny gold medals. The North Koreans have a competitive pairs figure skating team. The egoist in Kim wants a win. -- thegamesmenplay.com
1
Not being a fan of Trump it is tough for me to admit maybe his Lunatic with a Nuclear Button act is working. It could be Rocket Man has met his match on the unstable stage and blinked first.
5
In what sense has Kim blinked, Steven?
He still has his weapons. South Korea has cause to move away from the US alliance and towards engagement with him. So far this looks like pure win for the North, and China.
“North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, spent 2017 rattling the world with nuclear and long-range missile tests.”
Oh, I wouldn’t say that those tests rattled the world. More than likely, it’s his sadistic, gruesome public executions and his death camps that give the civilized world pause.
Looking forward to the war, the reunification of the Korean people under a US-friendly Democracy, and the trial of every member of the Kim regime for Crimes Against Humanity.
Keep on believing.
Trump had nothing to do with it.
Trump did nothing except give them a common enemy. No talk about reducing nuclear program. The damage is to the US in the world.
3
A bizarre publicity stunt that doesn't carry much substances. This ultimately doesn't commit North Korea to anything concrete in terms of cross-DMZ engagement or nonproliferation. So I suppose it's a positive gesture, but still just a gesture.
Governance by stunts and antics. Trump and Kim Jong Un are really mirror images of each other - supposedly opposite yet totally alike.
1
North Korea has played us for a generation. The appeasement approach lauded by people now ignores lies and promises broken repeatedly. Briefly,
NK first built factories for nuclear fuel in the early 80's.
Despite signing the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) and using this pretense to secure the withdrawal of US nuclear weapons for SK, they almost immediately violated the treaty in the late 80's/early 90's.
In 92, they let Hans Blix (UN inspector) in country only to block access.
After threatening to withdraw from the NPT (which they had already violated), they agreed to stop further development in return for oil and $ (1994)
During Bush in the 2000's they played the same cat and mouse game with promises, new talks and violations all the while building their nuclear capacity. Over the last decade, they have made no pretense building both nuclear warheads and delivery systems.
To believe literally anything they say is a fools game. Only 100% verifiable agreements based not on some nonsense around Olympic games will work. A A full economic blockade and regime change are necessary
3
I see this as nothing but a huge defeat for Donald Trump. If the North can normalize relations while keeping their nuclear arsenal- and they already have one- then all of the bluster from Trump will have done nothing. If the South doesn't care that Kim has nuc's, in the end neither will anyone else.
2
Olympic teams are excellent conduits for espionage. Members of the East German Olympic teams were spies or STAZI, sent not so to spy on the host nation but on their teammates. Thank you
5
Just trying to buy time for his arsenal for MAD leverage. God help us if you don't know MAD.
The North Koreans are brilliant negociators. The South came begging for the North to participate in the olympics, and tney will pay Mr. Kim a handsome fee for his cooperation. Previous administrations have paid Kim Jong Ill $500. just for a presidential visit. Kim Jong Un is much stronger of a leader than his father and will extract much more money from the South for the image of peace. The US should have removed its military from South Korea after the cold war. Korea is of no value to our security. Both Koreas want to reunify. Let them.
3
Kim knows he'll be getting plenty of free, possibly positive (compared to our traitor) world press at the Olympics. His own horribly mistreated citizens will get a full dose of "isn't he great for getting us a prime Olympics spot" propaganda, to his benefit. Yes, he obviously sees a great opportunity for NK "face time" in the media. Our traitor will undoubtedly get his tie stuck in his big mouth (and tiny thumbs) as we get closer to the event. Anything can happen.
3
So maybe tough guy Trump was right this time.
Playing nice clearly didn't work
3
Many of Trump's "wins" result in long term losses for others, while some of his losses result in long term wins for others. Winning and losing is a fantasy played out within his delusional mind. Of course some of his followers will realize this sooner than others.
1
Does it not appear that Kim Jong Un has emerged as a Machiavellian genius, exploiting the US position as a paper tiger and even worse the S Koreans not relying on the US? It is not the strength of America that caused this brief rapprochement but the huge opportunity NK saw in making this move. The WH will claim victory, but sadly there may be more future occurrences.
1
This is not the end of the beginning. This is not even the beginning. This is, perhaps, the beginning of the end. Something like that...
The Rocket Man continues to completely dominate the Cheeto. NDK has developed nuclear weapons and has an operable, or nearly so, delivery system. Having reached the goal of developing weapons to ensure his country's survival, Kim now pivots to a less confrontational stance to divide his main adversary from its increasingly uncomfortable ally, S. Korea. Trump will become increasingly irrelevant in Asia as the Koreans and the Chinese work out the path to a less confrontational future for the Korean peninsula. So much for the art of the deal.
3
They should remember Jesse Owens.
1
This is the right way for peace in Korea. Do not blame South Korea for inexperience or simpleness. We know our enemies in the North better than many Americans.
Do not lament lack of America's influence in the Korean affairs. Find a better peaceful solution than this and argue for it. As an ally with the US we are always ready to listen to your suggestion.
War mongering such as fire and fury and any type of violent solution to North Korea are not answer to North Korean problem because all of them involve my countrymen's deaths at least in the millions. They are my brothers, cousins and nieces. And even though I am a childless middle aged man, I do as much love them as I love my American friends.
5
North Korea is acting like the adult in the room. Building up Army training in South Korea is not a diplomatic good faith act towards a resolution to any conflict. Donald Trump needs to stop the childish name-calling and reduce, not escalate the nuclear problem.
It’s sad how much people’s hatred of Trump colors their vision. Adult in the room, Kim? Spare us.
NYT seems to ignore the fact that the president of South Korea, Mr. Moon and the president of USA, Mr. Trump, are in agreement of their strategies in dealing with North Korean at this moment.
I know Trump tweeted rather belligerently about the so-called "nuclear button," but he clarified at his interview in Camp David that he was 100% behind the talks between two Koreas while emphasizing his firm position to North Korea made this talk possible. The president of South Korea, Mr. Moon, also emphasized that he would not talk to North Korean in a naive or weak position. So Mr. Moon has been fully cooperating UN's decision of intensifying sanctions against North Korea. In a nutshell, Mr. Trump and Mr. Moon both implement the strategy of "whip and carrot." This strategy is apparently working considering that North Korea has responded to Mr. Moon's call for talks and peace.
One more thing: I hope NYT notes that "the sunshine policy" which has been favored by "liberal" South Korean presidents (including Mr. Moon) does not only target the leaders of North Korea but also the general people of North Korea. I firmly believe that opening North Korea to the rest of the world (that is exactly what the sunshine policy aims at) brings the change to North Korea from the bottom up. Therefore, I wholeheartedly welcome Mr. Moon's approach to North Korea by way of the Winter Olympic games and Mr. Trump's support for it.
8
By the time Trump was at Camp David, the Koreas were already arranging the meeting. He pretends now that it was somehow part of his plan, once it's clear that it's moving ahead without him in any case.
To Erik Rensberger,
I agree with your point that the talks between the two Koreas would moving forward without Mr. Trump's approval. Yet, if you follow some of Mr. Moon's diplomatic efforts since his inauguration last May, he has been aggressively and efficiently persuading all the big foreign powers surrounding the Korean peninsula including Mr. Trump, Putin, and Xi Jinping. For Mr. Moon has known that his dialogue-based approach to North Korea does not work well without support from the big foreign powers. Unlike his belligerent tweets, Mr. Trump has apparently respected Mr. Moon's approach and put his trust on Mr. Moon as a main player to solve the tensions around North Korea. I am not a big fan of Mr. Trump and his tweet politics, but I have no choice but to give Mr. Trump some credit on the peace talk between the Koreas over the Olympics.
This is the way it's supposed to be, the North and South negotiate on their future without foreign interference. Its magical thinking that the sanctions and Trump's war-mongering brought NK to the table. Rather, what is true is that there is no military option and Trump has been told so by his Generals and the State Dept. Not only that but SK, China and Russia have also said there is no military option.China has even gone so far to say that they would actively oppose a US preemptive strike which would possibly involve China in our War and SK told the US the same message that the there will be no War. Its long past time to end the Korean War, not on our terms but those of the two states involved. Its time to remove our troops from the DMZ and let peace ring out.
5
So when North Korea wanted something, they were ready to talk. Maybe it would be helpful to identify other things they want that can be discussed. Better than huffing like Trump, anyway.
1
The whole world now sees that North Korea is making reconciliatory gestures toward South Korea. Even if those gestures are not completely sincere, the world has taken note of a shift in North Korean diplomacy, a hope that there could still be peace.
If Trump launches a first strike during this thaw in Korean relations, the United States will become an international pariah.
Trump's been outplayed.
Exactly what concessions has NK made? Have they backed off of all of their threats and bellicose language against the US or SK even one bit? No, but they know there are people in the West who will lap it up even it he just postures.
If we've been reduced to the 'hardline' route with North Korea, then we should take it all the way. Rather than allow them to bask in Olympic glory, they should be banned. Mr. Koh is right... North Korea simply wants to normalize things as they are- meaning maintain and expand their nuclear program. South Korea may push Trump's de-nuclearization agenda, but I doubt they'll push back too hard. Kim is playing a long game- figuring that moving the South a bit our of the U.S.'s sphere of influence minimizes the likelihood for military action against his regime, with its inevitable fallout on the South. I suspect Trump knows that there is simply no 'military option' that's defensible, unless they push that button first. Kim knows that Trump knows this. My guess is we will accept nuclear weapons in North Korea.
2
This is great news.
The globe will be watching and will see people. People from North Korea, human beings. People we only see rarely, other than the parade participants and spectators we see in limited news feeds from North Korea.
These are people we may end up killing if the U.S. does launch military strikes against NK. Sure we have two madmen threatening each other, but I seriously doubt that many around the globe bear ill will against the people of North Korea.
2
Good. Now how about engaging in talks to establish a peninsula economic plan that involves collaborations between the two countries and addresses the most serious issues facing their peoples, with the aim of eliminating hunger and malnutrition and improving standards of living where needed. Leave most of the politics out of it for now.
The most serious issue facing the North Korean people is ridding themselves of the murderous Kim regime and all of its evils. Only then can they start to improve and rejoin the international community.
Of course the right wing thinks this is Trump's doing, when in reality this is the first time the Koreas have spoken directly since Trump took office -- yes, it happened under Obama, and Bush, and Clinton, and so on. Only by ignoring the Toddler in Chief does anything actually get done.
Intelligent and discerning observers who -- otherwise loathe Trump -- will set aside their confirmation biases and note that Kim is now eager to negotiate only after Trump's bellicose talk and success in rallying international support for harsher economic sanctions has dramatically crippled the NK economy and made Kim believe Trump might actually attack.
If this were Bush or Obama or Clinton they would be praised for their NK strategy over the last 11 months
4
I used to think that both Trump and Kim Jong-un were off their rockers, but with this move Kim does not look so dumb. He is making nice with S Korea without any compromise to his nuclear program. Looking quite smart actually. Trump, not so much
21
Kim Jong-un just out-played trump "bigly". Now who is the international madman, who is the one beating the drums of war, who is the one who can't be bothered to appoint an Ambassador to S. Korea, who won't agree to diplomacy/talks unless N. Korea first gives up its weapons which the world knows N. Korea is never going to do, especially not to Trump. One of your pundits described all Trump's big, bad, bully talk as having put him in the position of foreign policy conducted by "retreating from in front".
4
The naiveté of much of the NYT readership is astounding. Do they really believe that more lip service from this evil (yes, that's a moral judgment,) rogue (yes, like our foes in Iran,) "nation" (if you can call a virtual prison camp that,) is going to do anything to further the cause of long-term peace? Ask the strategically patient Barack Obama and his equally ineffective predecessors. We're living in their answer.
12
No- most are not naive, just realistic. Bombast aside, what do you think the U.S. should be doing? Trump has backed himself into a corner; NK likely WON'T dismantle their nuclear program. Trump most assuredly won't be make a first strike against NK. He is, however, likely praying that they'll send a missile our way- sure that becoming a 'wartime President' will burnish his bona-fides.
1
Not astounding at all. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Who in his right mind could possibly believe the North has any good intentions at all? The country is an armed camp with any dissent met with imprisonment, torture, execution. Past and recent "olive branches" were preceded or followed by unprovoked downing of civilian airliners (with all on board), torpedoing of ships (with all on board), shelling of border towns, kidnapping of foreign nationals, assassination of defectors and even family members in the North and in neutral countries, cyberattacks, tunneling under the border to dispatch commandos to commit sabotage. Need any more convincing? The utility of speaking with this regime as a civilized nation of equals with the West is like negotiating with Charles Manson or Hitler. If you think there will be any sort of a different outcome from the past, you are truly naive. And by the way, the participation of the North in the games is on someone else's dime. Do you think they would pay their own way?
2
The very idea of re-uniting South and North Korea is a tremendous boost for the New Year. Governments are supposed to represent the people, but unfortunately, because of too many expedient, political, financial and historical positions, they do the opposite.
Appeasement before the Second World War did not consider the people who would be harmed by war. The American First movement was oblivious to the peril of our own country positioned as we were between a Europe controlled by the Nazis and Asia controlled by a dictator in Japan.
America should first consider how the Vietnam War might never have started if we listened to the people in Vietnam and didn’t have to suffer tragically until our own citizens forced the politicians to listen. Soft power is always stronger than military might in the end.
President Trump has been called a populist for appealing to the people looking to make America great again. He turns off other people by threatening to explode the government as we know it, which, by definition, makes him an anarchist. What happens in Korea now could be the opportunity that defines his presidency, not by power, but by supporting the rights of people in Korea, the US and the world.
1
Note to Trump: Stay out of it. No tweets allowed.
10
We should not hold our collective breath. Twitter CEO Dorsey: SUSPEND HIS ACCOUNT!
1
I think if we could all just go to South Korea and all compete in the Olympics, it would be very healing. No contingencies. It would be nice to keep the president and those other 535 people out of this.
It is great that we have led the world in a lot of challenges over the decades, and we should continue to do so. But our national self-awareness is horrible. We are incapable of seeing when we are being over-bearing.
I am no statesman or politician, but my read is they want a seat at the big people's table. I don't see why we dictate who gets a seat at the table.
6
Not a surprise, and not something that is very favorable. It is as in the past just a stalling method to allow them to get closer to a nuclear weapon and delivery system to threaten the US. Perhaps China could guarantee Rocket Boy's continued government in exchange for giving up all his weapons of mass destruction.
4
The bottom line in this Korean pas de deux is to IGNORE TRUMP.
56
The bottom line is that the only reason rocket man is talking is because of President Trump's very tough stance after 25 years of mumbo jumbo appeasement. If that pushes the two to talk, great. The U.S. doesn't have to get involved in the discussions as long as the parties are okay with it, and as long as our ally South Korea feels safe.
3
Good job, Donald Trump!
You've squeezed the rocket man just hard enough. Coming from the posture of strength works best on little thugs.
15
Since Trump started "squeezing" North Korea, they have tested their first hydrogen bomb, fifteen times more powerful than their atomic bombs, and their first Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile able to reach DC instead of Guam, and has gotten the USA left out of talks between the two Koreas.
If that is success, I'd hate to see what failure looks like.
1
McGloin,
"Since Trump started "squeezing" North Korea, they have tested their first hydrogen bomb, fifteen times more powerful than their atomic bombs, and their first Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile able to reach DC instead of Guam, and has gotten the USA left out of talks between the two Koreas."
You do understand that all these weapons had been built before Trump even ran for presidency, don't you? They were built right under Obama's and Bush's noses without as much as a squeak from either. Right?
Why prevaricate then?
1
You childish people criticize Mr. Trump when Kim acts up and then cant give any credit to the President when Kim calms down...relax, only 7 more years.
18
Kim is still the same Machiavellian "Prince" he was a year ago. Trump pushed South Korea away by being crazier than the Kims, and Kim is taking advantage of that with negotiations that leave us out.
So now Kim has a hydrogen bomb, ICBMs and bilateral talks with the South, and what did we get?
But this isn't all Trumps fault. Every president for decades had made this worse. Obama also increased pressure, and also saw a ramping up of the nuclear program. Leave North Korea alone. It was created by China, is probably controlled by China, is only 400 miles from Beijing, and should be China's problem.
Trump should declare the Koran War won, and leave them for China to deal with. The Kims are not crazy enough to attack the U.S.. They just like to have us as a threat to unify their country against. Why do we play this game? Because our politicians create threats to unify us against and as an excuse to build more weapons to profit global arms manufacturers.
There is nothing in this sixty year old war to benefit the American People. Let it go.
1
I'm not criticizing him, I just don't think he did anything to cause this. To the contrary, it looks like North Korea will keep it's weapons develop a relationship with the South- without Trump's involvement. But if you want to praise Trump that is fine too.
I've yet to see any real progress in convincing North Korea to abandon or even cut back its nuclear weapons program. trump has done nothing to advance that goal. He has been a complete and utter failure with North Korea. We are no safer than when Trump was elected, in fat, we are probably less safe now. Trump is all brag and no action.
"....but few believe..."
Try to report news with a little more focus on the facts and less opinion, please.
12
Yes, the NY Times has no idea what people believe. Report what they say and what they do. Not what they "believe."
Don't count on it.
No one wants war, but no one wants Kim selling WMDs to all the wrong people either. You know what kind of people I mean--- don't you--- the kind who will attack you with them wherever you happen to be. Then it really will hit the fan, won't it?
For everyone who really does not want war to break out over NK, then I humbly suggest everyone think real hard real fast about surefire ways short of war that will stop Kim selling WMDs to anyone.
6
Well supposedly NK was already helping Syria build a nuclear power plant in Syria. If you treat NK like a rogue nation, they will act like a rogue nation. Threatening then and calling them crazy has only made the problem worse. Now we are well beyond the point that we can attack then without risking global nuclear war. (Mutually Assured Destruction means that once one country launches, everyone launches, that's why it's MAD, but still the policy of every nuclear country.)
The Chinese protect their interests around the world without projecting military force. We need to find a way to bring NK into the real world without war. Despite the standard rhetoric, war is no longer am option.
1
Any innocuous effort by Kim Jong-un looks like charm when compared to the bluster and ego tripping by Trump.
And Mr. Kim is smart enough to take advantage of this to bypass the US and engage South Korea. If the US wants to know what getting played feels like, this is it.
28
The South would do well to kick the US off the peninsula and let talks go further. The threat of the US keeps the peninsula from uniting.
4
It does? With who in charge? China would never allow South Korea near its border, so no unification.
4
Good point. We would probably still look at a war, but a smaller war without the US.
Exactly right and the Chinese will never permit regime change, force a de-nuclearized NDK, or permit the US to strike without retaliation. Time for Trump to recognize the facts on the ground instead of the fantasies in his head. He needs to step aside and let the smarter, cooler heads work this out.
1
Kim and Trump barked at each other all year. We expected it from a despot but not an American President.
Apparently Kim just figured he got Trump to act enough like an animal (apologies to Ms. Weiner and her column) where he figured he could look really civil in comparison by initiating dialogue. Drag em down to your level. It appears to be working - now Kim suddenly appears far more diplomatic and intelligent than his adversary.
5
Only for the many fools who time and time again buy into what Kim and Putin and others of their kind are selling. I am not for having a war on the peninsula but there is no way that I believe that Kim has changed his colors. He is who he has always been, an egotistical, ruthless dictator who looks to play anyone he can. And all of the people on here who indicate a belief that he has altruistic motives in this latest move, all I can say is "Wow, P.T. Barnum was 100% correct".
1
History will tend to repeat itself... when will we realize appeasement does not work.
8
History is not one size fits all. This war is sixty years old. There has been no appeasement. Carter negotiated an appeasement 25 years ago, but the U.S. didn't file through, so we went back to tough talk. Not appeasing did not work.
The appeasement I would like to see end is appeasement of war mongers by the Democratic Party and global corporate mass media.
Hitler was eighty years ago. Stop beating that one historical lesson to death at the expense of understanding history as it unfolds. If we had left Saddam Hussein alone there would be 45,000 fewer dead and wounded American troops, $3 trillion less government debt, and no ISIS. Republican (and centrist Democrat) arguments against appeasing Saddam created a disaster. Sometimes life works out better without bloodshed.
McGloin,
"Sometimes life works out better without bloodshed."
The weakness of this argument is in "sometimes," because it implies that sometimes it doesn't.
"Hitler was eighty years ago. Stop beating that one historical lesson to death..."
The American slavery was about 200 years ago, and we're still beating that dead horse as hard as we can, as if it were the only horse alive to bet on.
3
“Kim Jong-un’s priority is to head off President Trump’s threat to take military action against his government and to ease the impact of sanctions,”
A naturally SMART move. North Koreans are starving and it is only getting worse with sanctions. Get South Korean to supply food and everything else, it will boost their economy, and aside from everything else they are ALL KOREANS with families on both sides. Donny knows that BLOOD is thicker that water. We got the doughturd who rants at tv all day. when the GOPEE decides to get off the pot, maybe we can make deals too.
1
There is very little understanding within the USA concerning N. Korea. There is only fear, and Mr. Trump is working it to no one's advantage, however. In fact, it is at such odds with the view of the rest of the world and reality itself, even his own Secretary of State has a different view. Well, he's not a moron, so I give him some credibility. When you make an enemy out of someone, they can do no right, but we have President in our own country that has become our own enemy and can do no right. Unless, of course, he is speaking to his moronic base, or the neo cons, who own shares in the war machines. No wonder Mr. Kim behaves in the way he does. What we should be doing is inviting him to participate in the world, to open up his country to trade and to sharing ideas. It is absurd to believe that we, the USA, can some how prevent him from having something he already has, wants and needs.
South Korea has every right to behave as a normal person would in reaching out to someone, in this casea country, that feels besieged and under attack. Our foreign policy, in short, is foreign to reality. It would be absolutely staggering to see both North and South march together. It kind of makes me think about our own divide and the improbability that we will ever march together, again.
10
Kim wants a seat at the global table. No one is going to be able to strong-arm him to give up developing nuclear weapons. He might be persuaded to abide by the same standards in current arms agreements.
Let have his seat. Recognize NoKo as a G# power, whichever group is appropriate. Unfortunately, the current occupant of the WH, who has films edited to leave only fights, and kicks and punches in them, will never agree to compromise. Only stomping an opponent into the ground is the acceptable outcome. I hope someone stomps HIM soon.
1
How did Obama get Kim and his dad to act differently? Right, he did not. This is nothing more than a generational dictatorship situation. Why try and treat it any differently? If they march together it will only be either a prelude to the North trying to take over the South or it will be because they already have. Just as people seemed to think that Iran would change after signing the nuclear deal. They got everything they wanted and then some and all they had to do was accept a delay (and probably no delay, they are simply better at concealing their program now). The same thing was said about trying to negotiate with Hitler. Only person who was against it was Churchill. Where did that get the world?
1
The U.S. team must be on pins and needles: I would not be surprised if Donald were to ban our participating now due to NK's presence. What better distraction from the Mueller proceedings, "Fire and Fury" book, Donald's competency, etc. than a national food fight over our pulling out of the Winter Olympics?
3
Not happening, you live in a fantasy alternative reality.
3
Trump’s vision gets results! For months he has been threatening nuclear war in order to get NK to clarify that it considers the US the target of its nuclear weapons! Now it’s happened! And convincing the world to sanction NK to force it to field an Olympic team! North Koreans will field a biathlon team! So tired of winning now that the Korean Peninsula has Trump style stability!
6
He has never threatened nuclear war, you just read this paper without understanding.
5
What, exactly, did he mean when he said NDK would experience fire and fury like the world has never seen if they threatened the UD again?
1
Against the mainstream opinion, it has to be said that it appears likely that Trump's pressure on China and the DPRK has forced the DPRK to the table. Well, if recklessly done Don.
7
No, they didn't come to the table. South Korea is negotiating with them directly and leaving Trump out of it.
If Kim offered to end his nuclear program, or offered any confiession at all, I would have to give Trump credit. But that is not what is happening. As far as the Kims are concerned they are now negotiating from a position of strength, since they now have ICBMs and the hydrogen bomb.
Try logic over Trump Think.
I'm failing to see any detriment to North Korea. They participate in the games- much to our chagrin- they keep their weapons- and they make nice with the South, who really really hates Trump. What exactly did Donnie do so well?
McGloin,
"As far as the Kims are concerned they are now negotiating from a position of strength, since they now have ICBMs and the hydrogen bomb.
Try logic over Trump Think."
Try following your own advice. They didn't build these weapons last year, they did it under Obama's and Bush's noses.
Why have they decided to negotiate now, after a public spat with the US and ramp up of the sanctions?
2
As long as North Korea doesn't do any more missile launchings or other obvious missile-testing and, instead, sends its citizens to South Korea, unarmed...I say go for it.
3
North Koreans are ethnically, linguistically, and genetically identical to South Koreans. Because there isn't any moral distinction to be found between Kim Jong-un and Donald J. Trump, it's no surprise that South Korea has opted to take the "blood is thicker than stupidity" approach, and talk to the North Koreans.
Seoul is within artillery range of the DMZ - nuclear weapons aren't even required are required to severely damage South Korea. Would you want to die to satisfy Donald J. Trump's political ambitions? Neither do South Koreans.
57
Those are all interesting points. I do want to offer some information on linguistics though. South Korea went through a major language update during the second half of the previous century.
Fast forward to today where N. Korean refugees living in Seoul are struggling to keep their heads above water in the S. Korean education system due to language barriers. North Korea has been sealed off from the world while S. Korea remained open and sought to compete in a global marketplace.
It should also be noted the last remaining generation with ties across the border is disappearing. The Koreas are quickly losing the family bond that was once there. I suspect this has an impact on current day political relations as well.
Political ambitions? North Korea is approaching a phase where they can threaten the survival of the United States, in case you forgot.
The murderous North Korea regime has regularly threatened a nuclear assault on the United States and its allies but somehow this is about Donald J. Trump and his political ambitions? Amazing...
Trump has forgotten about N Korea, duh. He's gone on to reversing his pledge to grow our economy, and this week is shrinking our economy by firing 200,000 of our hardest working, most produtive workers and preventing them from continuing to pay taxes and withholding into our system. Thanks a lot, oh so great crude Trump "genius" - all hail!
9
There's no way to know for sure, but I do believe that the North' outreach, genuine or not, was inspired at least by Mr. Trump's rhetoric, even if it is an attempt to put distance between us and SoKo. I do not think Kim is insane. He is a pampered despot with the personality problems that comes along with being raised as one, and who has watched us back down and make agreements beneficial to NoKo previously and also with Iran. He is playing his cards to his best advantage. I am perfectly content for Kim to think that Trump is crazier than he himself pretends to be. The fact that Trump unseemingly crows like Peter Pan over it is a different story. And whether it eventually leads to peace (which I doubt - Kim is never giving up power voluntarily) or disarmament, is also a different story. But, it is better than saber rattling throughout February, scaring the contestants to death. Of course, it still may come to that. Kim will march to his own drummer, even if he ends up like Saddam Hussein.
4
They have ICBMs and the hydrogen bomb. Iraq, notwithstanding Bush administration lies, did not. This is not the same as Iraq. Attacking NK now risks global nuclear war. The consistent policy of Republican and Democratic administrations to bully NK has officially backfired. After sixty years, it's time to try something different.
Whatever the Kim's motivation, this is 1000x better than anything Trump did or can do. Trump's NK policy helped facilitate NK to become a genuine nuclear power. USA has now no option but accept NK as a nuclear state and develop a new Asia policy.
5
And Trump pushed Kim very hard and Kim even tested H-Bomb. Kim thanks Trump for the support.
Regardless of North Korea's true intentions are... we ought to give peace opportunities a chance. Kudos to both Koreas in initiating talks.
61
That was either excellent sarcasm or the most naive platitude ever!
3
In reply to Rex Muscarum California.
The latter, I believe!
This is precisely what the US has been doing, to no avail, for the past quarter century. NK uses negotiations to buy time, advance its nuclear program, and extract economic concessions. They are world masters at this game, truly admirable experts at practicing mendacity and blackmail.
Kim’s military strategy is to isolate the South, by threatening the US and Japan with nuclear retaliation if they come to the aid of their ally. The ultimate endgame would be a forced re-unification of the Korean Peninsula. Under Kim’s leadership of course. Shades of Poland in the run up to WWII.
3
This is the most coherent argument for continuing the sixty year old policy of belligerence that I have seen all year. The threat you cite is real. But still I am unconvinced. The Kims know we won't let then attack South Korea without defending them, and that if they launch nukes they will not survive. There is a difference between defense and offence, despite many politicians trying to confuse the two.
The Wall Street Journal states "The Trump administration is debating a "bloody nose" attack on North Korea, recent reports say, with the president's inner circle split and apparently teetering between endorsing a strike and holding out hope for diplomacy. The bloody-nose strategy, which calls for a sharp, violent response to some North Korean provocation, puts a lot of weight on the US's properly calibrating an attack on North Korea and Pyongyang's reading the limited strike as anything other than the opening salvo of an all-out war.
For that reason, even the limited strike envisioned by North Korea hawks carries a tremendous risk of global — and possibly nuclear — catastrophe."
2
What nuclear catastrophe? They might have 10 that is almost nothing.
2
Vulcanalex, when LA or Seattle or Honolulu are vaporized with “maybe 10” nukes, will you still think all of that is “almost nothing”?
Let's accept that the on-going North-South Korea discussions has nothing to do with Mr. Trump's bombastic rhetoric or infantile remarks and much to do with the pragmatic approach of Mr. Moon Jae-in, the president of South Korea (SK), toward the North Korea (NK). To be realistic, each country has its own cold, calculated, reasons to seek better relations with the other. As such, in the absence of US meddling, there are reasons to believe they could go much further in improving their relation.
SK is now at the same position where West Germany was 30 years ago. On the horizon it sees a vast industrial expansion, but it lacks the manpower to get there. What is complicating this picture is SKns' insistence on maintaining a homogenous population; thus, ruling out importation of the needed manpower. The solution, as was the case for West Germany, is opening country's borders to its next-door brethren (same rational applies to forming the EU). But, admittedly, things are not that easy in this case, as both Koreas are faced with a multitude of complex political challenges. But, if left alone, we know they are smart enough to work out most issues.
US military was stationed in Germany after WWII in response to threats from USSR. Similarly, US military's presence in SK is more related to the perceived Chinese threat than threats from NK. And, as in the case of Germany, a compromise for US military presence can be found.
3
Until little hands gets his twitter going, this is likely a great thing. One can only hope it lasts without his interference.
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"North Korea Surprises With Thaw Before Olympic Games"
These are the Winter Olympics - a Thaw may be counter productive.
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It's hard not to think of Russia's charm offensive leading up to, and during, the Sochi Olympics. That was quickly followed by the invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea.
I like to think South Korea is the best judge of its own interests. I assume (and hope) they are going into this with their eyes open, and that any relaxation of actions is similarly 'off the table'.
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A finely nuanced analysis.The DPRK is an international pariah with intense UN sponsored sanctions against it. The DPRK is essentially a feudalist regency, the family being that of Kim Jong Un.
Despite the sleek look of the DPRK delegation, the majority of its people are in the state of abject poverty.
Second, these talks have nothing to do with changing the nature of the DPRK. That will not happen with an internal change. Regimes just as brutal have fallen overnight (Romania) and no one could have predicted that.
What these talks are about is getting athletes to the Olympics. That's good.
The two parties talked about allowing families torn apart being allowed to visit each other. That's great!
Forget this stuff about 'driving a wedge." The RoK folks are no dummies, they just want to ease tensions even if they din't have lunch with the silk ties across the table. It's obvious they are appealing to national pride, a divided people who speak the same Korean language.
3
Thereby proving that even Kim Jong-un understands international diplomacy better than the current US president ...
72
What he understands is how incredibly naive some people in the West can be, praising a communist tyrant just because they hate their president so much.
"his ( Mr.Kim) intent was to divide the South from the United States by appealing to South Koreans’ ethnic nationalism"
North Korea has said it would not discuss its nuclear weapons in coming talks with Seoul because they were aimed only at the US, not its “brethren” in South Korea. “All our weapons including atomic bombs, hydrogen bombs and ballistic missiles are only aimed at the United States, not our brethren, nor China and Russia,” the statement said.. This is bad news for us. I am waiting for Trump's response, I am sure he is going to tweet.
8
“All our weapons including atomic bombs, hydrogen bombs and ballistic missiles are only aimed at the United States, not our brethren, nor China and Russia,"
More political theater. I doubt anybody conducting foreign or military policies in any of these countries believe any of it. Perhaps few weapons are aimed at China or Russia, but North Korea's survival depends heavily on holding South Korea and Japan hostage.
1
If South Korea wants to act independent from the US, I say let them be completely independent and withdraw our troops from South Korea.
Kim Jong-un basically offered protection and stabilization of the South Korea Olympic Games if NK athletes were to participate. Like the Mafia, it’s no surprise that the protection is from Kim Jong-un himself that’s why this so called thawing of relations is a farce. It’s better than threating the US or SK with nuclear weapons, but my guess is when the Olympics are over NK will be back to their usual behavior.
22
"If South Korea wants to act independent from the US, I say let them be completely independent and withdraw our troops from South Korea."
What a marvelous way to conduct foreign policy!
Step 1: Declare it will be "America First" from now on, the country's allies have been taking advantage of America for too long.
Step 2: get into a childish Twitter feud threatening nuclear war with North Korea, completely disregarding the country that would most directly suffer if things go awry. Brag about size of Donald Trump's nuclear button.
Step 3: when South Korea decides it might be better off handling its dangerous Northern neighbor in a less reckless way, threaten to take your toys and go home like a child throwing a tantrum.
Gosh, I wonder why the world doesn't respect America more.
Removing our troops would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Something tRump would do.
You use negotiations over the Olympics to compare NK to a Mafia style protection racket, then go on to threaten to withdraw our protection if they don't do what we say. We attacked a unified Korea sixty years ago, then kept our troops there ever since as "protection."
Do you see the irony?