Gotta love Saudi's role in Yemen!
The protesters of the US: a growing number of them are fed up with being told how to live their lives by old corrupt, or suffocating Republicans.
13
Mr. Friedman forgets that the CIA overthrow of the Iranian democracy in the 50s laid the groundwork for a generation of Iranian hatred for the Great Satan culminating in the 1979 disaster. I have Iranian friends who recall the CIA sponsorship of the terror police SAVAK.
14
What we are seeing now are massive protests, a completely intra-Iran protests. And before we start interfering and morphing those protests into what we would like them to be, we should just STOP. Period. It is the Economy, Stupid! We are too dumb to learn any lessons, too nonchalant about the suffering of other peoples. This my way or the highway attitude has disrupted lives as they know it. Last time around we toppled the Democratically elected Government and installed a cruel tyrant, the Shah on them. We instigated the Iranians and they replied by electing the Ayatollahs. Now we are trying to inveigle ourselves with phony causes and Iran's involvement in the region,fomenting the Iranian protests so that again a Democratically elected Government of moderates headed by Rouhani will be toppled. When we talk about their meddling in the Middle east, what are WE doing there? And Russia, and Saudi Arabia and Israei! Why is interference by all these countries overlooked? But this time around, installing a Shah like puppet is impossible. They will go straight with the Ayatollahs. The Nuclear Deal will be totally broken now that we have refused to keep our side of the bargain. And voila! We will have to manage another North Korea with Ayatollahs. Smart. We are so smart with our biggest red button!
6
On the contrary, in 1979 Islam, both Sunni and Shia, put a break not on itself but on Westernization.
The West achieved its apogee in the 19th century so then westernizing movements took roots in Islam the world over.
Even the Western suicide 1914-45 when Europe killed 120,000,000 (or 1 in 4) of its own, plus allegedly 6,000,000 of its own did not dampen the urge that West had a solution to ills of Islam.
But soon Muslims found out that Western ideals did not deliver, so a retreat to the old took place - in Iran as well as in Pakistan, the Shia and Sunni strongholds.
Today, with Trump, May, Macron et al and the rise of China and Asia the Western call will fall on deaf years.
The present protests in Iran are by Iranian hardliners against the moderates Rouhani and gang reminding him that rapprochement with the West has not delivered as promised. Too bad left liberals like Friedman are still living in his fantasies when neither America nor the world is no more. Wake up Friedman.
2
Thanks Tom for another insightful, salient and original-thinking article.
1
When I see women wearing a hijab in the U.S., I wonder if she is oppressed by male family members or simply a religious extremist.
Women were whipped in the streets if they did not cover their heads back then, so there is nothing cool or religious about it now, especially over here.
4
Perhaps there is a new Arab spring afoot (though, strictly speaking, Iranians are not Arabs). While I would find offensive the consumerist fantasies of Middle Eastern youth, I am all for casting off the yoke of religious zealots who would have their people live their lives according to religious dogma. And what applies to the Middle East (Israel included, with its intransigent ultra-orthodox), also applies to these great United States. We have Evangelical Christians who have gotten it into their heads that Shariah law is being imposed here in the US. But the fact of the matter is, they aspire to impose their own version of religious law over we the people. They, along with our benighted president, are looking to Make America (retro)Grade Again.
11
"The spontaneous demonstrations that just erupted across Iran were triggered by the release, through social networks, of the latest national budget. Unemployed Iranian youth saw just how much money was being poured into the Islamic Revolutionary Guards — and their adventures in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Yemen — and into Islamic institutions, and even, as The Times’s Thomas Erdbrink put it, into “someone who was upkeeping the library of his deceased ayatollah father.” This at a time when the government was canceling subsidies to 30 million low-income Iranians."
Huh. Soaring military budgets coupled with slashing of the social safety net. That sounds vaguely familiar...
10
While it's heartening to see a break, if small, in the mullah's hold on iran, Friedman is the last person to make predictions, if that's what he's doing. He's the guy who wrote, 'The Lexus and the Olive Tree,' lauding globalism and a new century of cooperation and freedom among the nations in the world.
We've seen how that's worked out.
4
Interesting that Friedman leaves out the billions of dollars of military material we sell the Saudis, so they can bomb Yemenis and suppress their dissidents.
M.B.S. wouldn't win an election. But as long as he's got the security apparatus, he'll remain in power. And as long as he opposes Iran and doesn't get too oppositional toward Israel, US tax money will help him.
7
Wishful thinking!
MBS may be using the "modernization" ploy to gain power over his rivals. He, himself, does not show signs of tolerance and respect for indvidual freedom.
The Iranian youth may be rebelling over the economic deprivations inflicted by the US-lead sanctions.
It is too early to read good into power-plays and mob violence.
8
It's pretty sad that the best we can hope for in Saudi Arabia is an emulation of China.
Thanks to GWB and Trump, democracy's brand is tarnished.
6
1979 was a year that changed everything with politics and religion. In the United States, the Moral Majority was founded with the goal of electing righteous leaders, but they settled on a divorced Hollywood actor who barely knew his own children. It was the first year in modern times that Muslims killed Muslims in the name of Islam, in the takeover of the Mosque in Mecca. It was the year of Khomeini. It was the year that the Mujahideen of Afghanistan declared a Jihad against the Communist government -- with Zbig Brzezenski deciding to aid them in their jihad. Hassan al-Turabi became the Minister of Justice in Sudan, introducing Islamic laws. Zia in Pakistan claimed to introduce sharia law, and the US supported all of the Islamization except in Iran. Religion was not the solution. Religion exacerbated the problems that we continue to see today, from Evangelicals supporting Trump to Hindu extremists attacking Muslims, to jihadists who have lost their minds.
11
Who are we to decide what the Iranians want? This protest by the Iranians in their own country, for whatever their reasons is their own. They have their own democratically elected Government to deal with it. So let's get off our high horse, sanctimoniously interfering and deciding for them. Iran has suffered enough thanks to us. Besides, Mr. Friedman you seem to have a selective memory of 1979. You conveniently remember the coming of the Ayatollahs and the puritanical, dogmatic, retrogressive Islam that was wrought on the Iranians. But also, let's be very honest about our role in it also.
11
Wouldn't it be ironic to see social and political liberalization and rapid modernization in repressive countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia while this country under its current leadership goes backwards?
5
The years 1938 and 1953 were far more momentous. The former was the year oil was discovered in Saudi Arabia. The latter, the year the CIA overthrew the non-sectarian, parliamentary democracy of Iran.
You can't have an intelligent discussion of the two countries, and the middle east, without acknowledging the role of oil and US interests in the region.
8
This sounds familiar: the religious establishment, which can still activate the large pool of less-educated and pious rural and small-town Saudis, if they feel social norms are changing too fast or massive youth unemployment isn’t being fixed.
4
Friedman makes a facile comparison between Iran and Saudi Arabia, two countries with vastly different histories, cultures, and political and religious traditions. This allows him to make the absurd argument that the primary reason Saudi Arabia is not currently experiencing the widespread street demonstrations taking place in Iran is because its ruler, M.B.S., is a "millennial" who is "in tune" with Saudi youth.
This is an embarrassingly simplistic analysis that ignores all of the nuances and complexities of Iranian society that have contributed to the current unrest. In particular, Friedman glosses over the economic grievances that have been central to the demonstrations. It's not just the lavish payments to the IRGC and Islamic institutions that have angered many working class Iranians, but the broader neoliberal austerity policies that have led to deep subsidy cuts and rising prices for basic goods and services.
This complicates Friedman's analysis because it means that discontent among Iranian working class youth cannot not be addressed by social reforms alone. The pro-market economic policies that Friedman has touted so often in the past in other contexts are a major part of the problem. This is an ideologically inconvenient truth for Friedman, so he simply ignores it.
21
I wonder where US/Iran relations would be if Bush Jr. had not added Iran to his "axis of evil". Much improved methinks.
10
Thoughts:
The Enlightenment in Europe did not begin until the mid 1600s and lasted through the late 1700s. Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity.
Islam has not had an analogue to the European Enlightenment and, probably, can not in its current state. Until there is an Arab/Islamic analogue to the European/Christian Enlightenment there will never be a lasting “Arab Spring".
There is no supporting environment for Lockean ideas in current Muslim culture.
Muslim rationalism, as put forward by the Mu’tazila, and the discipline of rational theological discourse, kalam, have been condemned as heretical by mainstream traditionalist Islam since the 10th century. Until this changes, and rationalism and kalam are accepted by Muslim culture, Lockean ideas will find no Islamic support.
3
Our youth are in danger of wanting to bury 2017 as the youth see how much money is being poured into the elites of the Republican Guards, with their adventures in offshoring jobs, taxes and money as they cancel subsidies and health coverage to low income Americans and children. Indeed, the fundamentalist Christian evangelicals are looking to control our government and society - see https://nyti.ms/2EdndHG.
Who knew Iran and Saudi Arabia may become enlightened as the US descends into the abyss of darkness and regressiveness of the evangelical religious right - never forget that photo of all those evangelicals praying for trump in the oval office.
9
Mr. Friedman speaks of MBS's invasion and murder of thousands of people in Yemen as some little issue worth ignoring. MBS is not a wise man. He has overplayed his hand and it is very risky to put your bet on him.
Also, this kind of reform is hard to do from the top. Are the Saudis, including the older people, buying into this? Or will there be some revolution against these reforms?
10
With due deference to Mr. Sadjadpour, the assertion that “Khamenei is a traditional leader presiding over a modern society,” while true enough—relatively speaking—risks making it appear as if Iranian society as a whole is overwhelmingly modern, even progressive. With respect to the society that the Pahlavis ruled and often misruled, it clearly is more modern; but huge numbers of Iranians are far from mental modernists.
We should support those who seek an open society and accountable government, but we can do so without idealizing Iranian society or projecting our own wishes onto people whose lives and desires we mayn’t fully grasp. Let’s pick the side of openness, democracy, and plurality. But let’s be clear-eyed about the obstacles in the way.
5
Most informative article I've read in the Times in years!
PLEASE, NYTs send reporters to the Middle East tomorrow and get us, your readers, information of this caliber we so desperately need to be informed citizens of the world. No more meddling, bogus wars and interventions based on our ignorance by political manipulators. Please, it's your duty and responsibility.
Thank you and pardon m'y preachiness.
5
In all these years of middle East politics - one name stands out.
Anwar Sadat
4
A little factual correction Mr. Friedman,
When Iranians chant "Death to Hezbollah," they don't mean the Lebanese but the Iranian Hezbollah. The word means party (hezb) of Allah. In the early days of '79 revolution, and then afterwards during the brief spring when all opposition (secular and religious) to the Shah's regime were present on the scene, there were plainclothes mobs that would appear amidst peaceful demonstrations waged by secular liberal groups, leftists, and women's rights groups wielding broken bottles and bats, going after protesters. They would chant "party (hezb) only Hezbollah, leader only Ruhollah (Khomeini). The implication was to declare all political parties other than the ones blindly faithful to Khomeini illegitimate and fit for only abuse. Those mobs later were formalized into Basiji units and found a semblance of legitimacy by recruiting and sending very young boys, as young as thirteen, to the war front and then 'celebrating' their martyrdom as a sign of their unwavering faith. To this day, in most Iranian ears the word hezbollah conjures up fear and contempt for violent street mobs sanctioned by the government and an intolerance by the regime for democracy and a blatant abuse of power under the guise of 'populism.'
10
Hopefully they can do this quickly before the Western free market, free speech open society model falls victim to the emerging fake news, fake democracy, edited intranet, kleptocracy model found in Russia, China, Turkey and coming soon to Trump's America
10
A internal and external religious firmament in process for 1400 hundred years against established religions thousands of years old, and you want to invoke as a solution an approach a less than 40 year old happening.
Please grow up.
1
Are the current "reform" movements and leaders in Iran and Saudi Arabia the result of Bush's "bringing democracy to the Middle East" wishes? Except that the US as taken no effective role outside of the debacle in Iraq. So, it does look like liberalization will come from the inside. What remains to be seen is how these shifts in policy effect the proxy wars (Syria, Yemen) taking place.
1
Mr. Friedman says, "Where M.B.S. has to watch his way is with the religious establishment, which can still activate the large pool of less-educated and pious rural and small-town Saudis, if they feel social norms are changing too fast or massive youth unemployment isn’t being fixed."
That rings all too familiar for us, too.
8
PS - to that, one can add an Opioid crisis with big profits for the pharmaceutical industry.
3
“Old corrupt suffocating clerics.” Taken a look ar a photo of Trump’s cabinet lately? Nasty old white guys who pine for the “real” America of 1900. No minorities, no women, no smart, honorable people may apply. The most backward looking white men in America now rule.
24
Thanks Tom - it's good to see you bring real experience and perspective to bear. More like this please, and less shallow catchphrase pieces about technological and social change.
9
Beirut/Lebanon was the playground of the Middle East.
Egypt was looked up to as a leader by the vast majority of non-Western countries.
Iran (at least Tehran) often had veiled or otherwise covered women, but so often, the sheer black fabric showed their short skirts and fashionable boots underneath.
Then the OPEC oil embargo and price spikes came (early 1970s?).
Oil money (along with decades of our disastrous dictator/royalty against people supporting policies) is what produced havoc. Not 1979. Not "Islam los(ing) its mind."
Our greed for oil and willingness to "recycle" petrodollars for arms sale, our support of extremist kings and dictators, our focus on a veneer of "stability" as long as no one said a bad word about Israel, all these lunacies are what led to the destruction of the Middle East.
Get a mirror Tom. Look at what you have been "pronouncing" for decades and match it to reality and what happened in the future. Have you ever been right?
With gaga eyes for a Saudi Prince who has no intent on "political power-sharing" (something so very completely okay with you), is mere duplication and continuation of the decades of US policy of latching on to the latest king/dictator who spouts platitudes geared to exciting people just like you, while continuing to destroy their country, their region and the world (all while buying $500 million yachts, $500 million houses, $400 million paintings - just gleaming "purity" this guy is!).
27
"With gaga eyes for a Saudi Prince ..."
This is all part of the prep to lead us to war with Iran fueled by Netanyahu's grip on the WH.
9
The Saudies, Israel and USA, are continuously looking for ways to interfere, disrupt Iran from inside. The trend has been to create NGO and “grassroots” movements to destroy the countries from inside out. I applaud Russia for requesting for foreign funded NGO to register with the government.
4
They should copy the anti--progressive-NGO legislation adopted by Israel.
1
What are these foreign-funded NGOs pushing? Democracy, human rights, the rule of law -- all reforms detested and feared by autocrats. And by the way, Russia is not "requesting" that these NGOs register as foreign agents. They are insisting this.
Iran has done a pretty good job of destroying itself along with its neighbors. The current corrupt regime in Tehran won't last another decade.
MBS "progressive ideas" for improving KSA economy includes rounding up all the wealthy, hanging them upside down and beating them until they gave up all their wealth (part of which he pockets) and levying usurious levels of tax on immigrant workers (who have been in KSA for decades and still have no citizenship rights). So of course he's very popular at present. But how long will that work?
Iran produces a mathematician like Maryam Mirzhakani, who was educated in Iran before she came to the US for graduate studies. KSA produces imams with doctorates in religious studies, who then go on to preach murder and mayhem all over the world. No comparison between the two.
Iranians may be fed up with their country which impoverishes it's people to prosecute wars in foreign countries. But isn't that the case of the US too? Our states are going bankrupt due to underfunded pension while our defense budget is jacked up to $700B to fight trillion dollar wars abroad.
35
Mr Friedman overlooks a big difference between 1979 and today: the revolution in oil production and the fact that North America is going from an oil importer to an oil exporter. The lock on the control of oil that the Arab states had on the World in 1979 is now broken. What we see now is the cascading effect of two technological revolutions at once, two things that did not exist in 1979: the world connectivity of the internet,( turns out Arab children like youtube just as much as their Western cousins), and the end to unlimited oil cash flow for the Mullahs. Things are about to change in the middle east in ways that never could have been predicted by a young cub reporter named Friedman back in 1979 and the Mullahs in 2017.
7
I have come to the conclusion that if there is a supreme being, it is uninterested in human politics, except maybe for amusement.
4
This reads like an attempt to whitewash history and blame everything on Iran.
Oil price hikes that enriched producers weren't a result of the Iranian revolution, but rather the 1973 embargo that led to long lines at gas stations.
Iranian revolution didn't start the Shiite trends in Lebanon, but the invasion of Lebanon by Israel did.
It wasn't Iranian revolution that radicalized Saudis and led to Wahhabism, Al Qaeda and ISIS, but it was the American and Saudi policies in ME, after the Russian invasion of Afghanistan.
It's amazing to watch Thomas Friedman's love affair with MBS, a lawless ruler who has arrested the wealthy to fleece billions out of them in order to make up the over 80 Billion budget deficit.
10
As a supplement to Tom Friedman's excellent analysis, I invite readers to take a look at a joint review I did in October 2017 of two women’s recently published memoirs providing inside looks at the state of women’s and human rights in Iran and Saudi Arabia:
https://tomsbooks.wordpress.com/2017/10/27/women-pressing-for-seditious-...
By opening his mouth (i.e. Twitter) Trump made it possible for Khamenei to blame it on the 'enemy' and label the protests as orchestrated by foreign forces (Putin and other dictators' favorite tactic).
Some people don not realize that verbal support from a US president will have no positive effect on the ground, on the other hand it gives an easy excuse to the government to clamp down and ignore the legitimate grievances of people. In some cases a lip service support could encourage the people to come out, only to find out that these were merely words. US did this to Iraqi Kords during Saddam's regime which ended in tens of thousands being killed by security forces.
3
Tom Friedman’s credibility takes a severe blow when he lauds the Saudi Arabian regime of Prince Mohammed bin Salman while knowingly ignoring the facts that:
• Saudi Arabia is responsible for thousands of civilian deaths in Yemen, instability in Lebanon, disharmony among Arab states (Qatar), the export worldwide of extreme Islam, and opposition to the Arab Spring; and
• Women in Saudi Arabia’s arch rival (Iran) have voted, held elective office, owned property, and (Yes) driven cars for many decades.
Friedman’s claim that Salman will end Saudi corruption and the export of Wahhabi extremism is foolishness. The current leader of Saudi Arabia remains part of a totalitarian regime dedicated to its own preservation. Its goal is to manipulate Americans to believe otherwise. Friedman (probably unwittingly) is a tool in that deception.
10
All true, but Saudis are friendly with Israel. That's why we have to convince American voters that a war supported by Saudis and Israel, waged by US, is in fact a good idea.
1
M.B.S. reminds me a little of the late Shah of Iran! Trying to move fast a backward society with authoritarian rule! Readers should know that so far Iran had two revolutions not just one:the first one constitutional revolution of 1906 that changed absolute monarchy to constitutional one! Now Iran legally has absolute clerical rule. I mean most things ayatollahs do are based on constitutional rule. By present constitution, supreme leader is absolute ruler of the country. While under the last two shahs, the monarch like queen of England or emperor of Japan had no power or authority to rule as absolute rulers that they did!!! I guess present constitution must be written by American attorneys? ! To rule a modern populace in modern time by absolute rule!!??
1
I just do not see a strong and aggressive youth movement in Saudi Arabia. I think the Saudi youth will be content with what MBS gives them. Young Saudis are feeble in my opinion, quite addictive to video games and cell phones, interested more in material possessions, more individualistic than social, with limited social conscience or understanding of society and consequently the lack any practical abilities to mobilize, demonstrate and sacrifice.
Saudi youth have grown soft and weak and are not even the shadow of what their ancestors were, tough dessert rats.
1
Mr. Friedman, spontaneous? It also happened during Obama’s term but he squashed it (2009).
What’s amazing, you are all quick to criticize President Trump. But when he’s shown you results in just one year, you call them spontaneous.
2
Religion is slavery not reform. This fact is self evident and slowly seeping into the Islamic through the internet, media and myriad other vectors.
12
When "'Islam lost its brakes,'" is the kind of condescension that makes Friedman so blind and completely wrong on just about everything he says about the Middle East!
The fault dear Tom is not in Islam but in us. Kindly continue reading:
Virtually every causal event you lay out is directly due to America and the west: who coddled Saudi Arabia as its extremist exports globally perverted religious instruction and institutions in Islam?;
who sat lamely by as Saudi Arabia did not a thing to liberalize and instead went in the opposite direction?;
who overthrew democracy in Iran, leading to public anger at a rapacious dictator that enabled Khomeini to come to power?;
who ignored persecution and disenfranchisement of Shi'ites across the Middle East, leading Iran to care for and defend them?;
when we demand the world endlessly sanction and ostracize Iran (Iraq, Cuba, you name it) can we really expect Iran not to support regimes that help achieve its objectives?
And now Tom, you have a shiny new boy toy! A Saudi prince who is just so very amazing ("political power-sharing is not on the agenda" - of course not, why should it be? why should we care at its absence? that's how we do things in the ME! always has been). Women driving! letting women go to sporting events with men! this guy must be using the same publicity agent Trump, Pakistan, Israel and others use.
Can't wait for your next shiny toy when it comes to Muslims and the Middle East, Tom. Predictable you are.
14
HOW does one "LIBERALIZE" a country like Saudi Arabia?????? Please enlighten us, sir!!!!!!!!! Thank god for Israel ( a VERY small sliver of land) that can stand against so many other countries.
1
US played a key role in Iran pre 1979 but soon after events spinned out of US influence/control put Iran in to dark ages. Iran with largest natural gas and second largest oil reserve since 1979 has been living in dark ages. KSA on the other hand has the largest oil reserve after half a century came up with a reformer MBS! must be a joke. Oil is cheaper than bottled water in the world! Who is winning/loosing?
I just hope the old US of A stays out of it. Everything we do in the Mideast is bad juju!
6
I hope someone can explain this to me. How was it possible for the Obama administration to "unfreeze" Iran's assets in this country and permit those to be "returned" to Iran when Iran still owed something like $53 billion in unpaid judgments to U.S. creditors? Surely the custodians of those funds would have had liens or levies served on them that would have taken priority over Iran's ability to (re)move those assets?
2
Not to mention the covert shipment of a billion and a half in cash to the Mullahs by the Obama administration. No doubt many Iranians are wondering where the heck did that money go?
Friedman has little knowledge of the Saudi or Iranian societies and tries to psycho-analyze what he has little knowledge about. I have a hard time to figure out why he does this, instead of opining on something that he is not emotionally invested in. His columns seem to always stroll along whatever Israeli regime's wishes at the time is. He is in love with the Saudi tyrant in waiting, because he thinks all the problem Saudis have is a few cinemas or a Disney Land? Not really, he likes the Saudis because they have become BBFs of Israel. Or that the "young more modern" Iranians have become so "more modern" in spite of the "hardline regime" that has been ruling them for the last 40 years? (Something doesn't add up.) No not really, he is anti-Iran, because the Israeli regime has them on their crosshair. Tell me something new. There won't be any regime change in Iran, and I have a hard time believing MBS in Saudi Arabia will last more than a day or two if he ever comes to power. I strongly recommend for Friedman to write about China, or Vietnam or some such things as curvature of the earth, since it is not flat anymore, instead of fooling himself and his readers about the middle east.
7
This is strange, he thinks Mr. Friedman does not know much about Iran but then he himself assumes Iranians are not modern because of 40 year rule of of hard-line regime! I live in Iran and I see Iranians are as modern as Americans if not more. Iranian youth are way way less mosque going as Americans are church going, this is one thing anyone can easily observe! Iranian youth are way more anti establishment or what ever ruling clerics want them to be than Americans. Just look how many Iranians of all ages these days have dog that is prohibited by Islam, just to show they want something that government does not want them.....
2
When "'Islam lost its brakes,'" is the kind of condescension that makes Friedman so blind & completely wrong on almost everything he says about the Middle East!
The fault dear Tom is not in Islam but in us. Kindly continue reading:
Virtually every causal event you lay out is directly due to America & the west:
who sat besottedly by, dreaming of arms sales as Saudi Arabia exported its global distortion of religious instruction & institutions in Islam?;
who chose "que sera sera" as Saudi Arabia marginalized women and empowered religious extremists?;
who overthrew democracy in Iran, leading to public anger at a rapacious dictator that enabled Khomeini to come to power?;
who ignored persecution & disenfranchisement of Shi'ites across the Middle East, leading Iran to care for & defend them?;
when we demand the world endlessly sanction & ostracize Iran (Iraq, Cuba, you name it) can we really expect Iran not to support regimes that help it survive & achieve objectives?
And now Tom, you have a shiny new boy toy! A Saudi prince who is just so very amazing ("political power-sharing is not on the agenda" - of course not, why should it be? why should we care at its absence? that's how we do things in the ME! always has been). Women driving! letting women go to sporting events with men! this guy must be using the same publicity agent Trump, Pakistan, Israel & others use.
Can't wait for your next shiny toy when it comes to Muslims & the Middle East, Tom. Predictable you are.
4
It does not do the Times credit to have a propagandist for the Saudi government in their midst.
What Mr. Friedman describes is not Saudi Arabia but the vision that MbS is trying to sell to the world outside the kingdom.
It is highly unlikely that Mr. Friedman has even been talking to female Saudi youth as he describes in his article as in the kingdom such contacts are forbidden.
Also, as he could have learned, at current most Saudis are on a war path against the infidel nation of Iran as most of the news in the kingdom is controlled by the cronies of MbS and is building a case for war against Iran.
Very effectively at that.
So please, get a professional and neutral writer for such articles.
Mr. Friedman is way too close to the Saudi government to qualify for such articles.
6
When the danes stumbled in to the Mohammed crisis, and the caos it created, I lost hope for the Middle East. When IS became a country, and everybody sat on thier hands and did nothing, it seemed the Middle East was lost for good.
I cannot get my spirit up for this little progress being made, then so many things keep going backwards.
Time for NYT to consider moving TF column to their advertising section. I appreciate your desire to keep MBS happy but not at the erxpence of your reputation.
7
"Iran’s more moderate president, Hassan Rouhani, .."
In 1940, you might have written (just as accurately), "Germany's more moderate leader, "Heinrich Himmler" ..."
This "moderation" leaves much to be desired by Western standards. But you continue to kowtow to dangerous dictators.
Why every thing should be judged by Western standards!? We are not talking about west, we are talking Iran! President Rouhani has no power, given this, he is doing a great job, at least Iranian are not ashamed of him when he goes to UN, as we did with Ahmadi-Nejad.
4
By comparing the Saudi Arabian medieval Sunni Wahhabi Muslim extremist autocratic corrupt crony capitalist oligarch plutocrat fossil fuel House of Saud to Iran, Mr. Friedman reflects a moribund malign moral ethnic sectarian white Judeo-Christian American supremacist blindness. This is the view from Tel Aviv, Riyadh and Washington. Saudi Arabia is the home of al Qaeda, ISIS, Osama Bin Laden and 15 of the 9/11/01 hijackers.
History did not begin nor end in Iran in 1979. Ethnic Persian history goes back 2500 years. While the Sunni Shia theological schism occurred 1400 years ago. What happened in 1979 was the culmination of an American coup against a democratic leader followed by America installing a royal tyrant in power in Iran. What happened next was a failed Carter rescue attempt and Iran returning the favor of election interference by releasing it's American "guests" after Reagan's election.
America supported Saddam Hussein and Iraq's war against Iran that left a million Iranian casualties followed by the US Navy shooting down a civilian airplane. The latest round of American malign overt and covert existential war against Iran includes cyber, drone and murder war aided and abetted by Israel. Iran is by far among the most egalitarian educated Muslim nations in the world. Persians are not Arabs nor Turks nor Kurds.
What is really driving this debate is access to and control of Saudi and Iranian fossil fuel reserves and geography. Tom's nose for news knows no history.
8
Did he just call late Shah of Iran " democratic leader " , I mean he called His Imperial Majesty Shah of Iran Mohammadreza Pahlavi, a democratic leader?
It seems, he does not know that Kurds are Medes, and Medes where here before Persians, and most Iranians proud to be Medes as well as Persians. Meaning Kurds are part of iran and of the same ethnicity. and it insult to put them in a separate class like Turks and Arabs. Yes, Arabs are Semites, and Turks are more from Eastern races. Does not Times read comments for accuracy? He said there was a coup that brought the revolution to Iran, what coup inf 1979? Maybe he talks about American coupe of 1953 that brought Shah to power?
2
The US did a lot of wrong in Iran (the biggest being the CIA's coup in 1953), but your defense of Iran, a minority- and gay-persecuting Islamist republic is against every value we ought to cherish as liberals. When you draw distinctions from Saudi Arabia, remember that Iran, too, has an economy based on petroleum.
1
The Op-Ed is misguided in its sweeping generalizations and attempts at guilt by association. For starters, "Al Qaeda, Hezbollah and ISIS...." did not cause ".... so many metal detectors to airports across the globe." Al Qaeda and ISIS certainly did, because they had a perverse vision of a global Caliphate. Hezbollah, on the other hand, is a democratically elected national party dedicated to the defence of Lebanon and actually fought the former two Saudi-backed terrorist organizations on the West's behalf.
Mr. Friedman, you certainly do "know a bit about Iran", which is why you originally wrote a brilliant and courageous Op-Ed about Country A and Country B in which you exposed the hypocrisy of the U.S.'s demonization of Iran following 9/11:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/31/opinion/31friedman.html
It has been 7 long years since that Op-Ed and I have yet to read anything as brave and informative since.
Other than a youthful population, Iranians and Saudis have absolutely nothing in common: Not in ethnic background, history, science, education or work ethic. Maybe there is a common theme of corruption, but that is a global curse and not something that uniquely binds Iranian and Saudi youth.
3
Mr. Friedman's embrace of Mohammed bin Salman is more bromance than analysis. "M.B.S." is a thug. The window dressing that some see as "change," is just to perpetuate the House of Saud's absolute dictatorship. There will be change when the Saudi family is just a bad memory and "Arabia" no longer is prefaced by "Saudi."
3
Your affection for MBS is weird. This is exactly the kind of dictator--a self described liberal reformer (or a tom-described one)--who will turn on his beloved people with a vengeance if they don't show a proper appreciation for the benevolent Prince and the "rights" he's "giving" them.
4
Pouring money into its military and foreign adventures in "Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Yemen" while "canceling subsidies to 30-million" of its "low-income" populations.
Where have I heard THAT before?
22
Although I am in concurrence with your assessment, and the need to abolish Iran's theocracy, so a modern and more just secular government may arise. You just forgot that 1979 was a most remarkable year that empowered the Muslin fanatics and their destruction of any chance of a "Renaissance"; and the United States was instrumental in it, given that the C.I.A. helped topple a duly elected president...and placed a puppet instead (the Shah) to do our bidding insofar oil flow was concerned; and the supreme leader Khomeini took over. And Iran has a good memory...compared to ours. Insofar Saudi Arabia is concerned, it is not clear to me why we support whole-heartily such a rigid 'royal' regime...while removing ourselves from the chance to establish a no-nonsense diplomatic relationship with Iran, similar to what we have with other autocratic regimes (China, Russia, Turkey, etc). Let's stop being hypocrites and develop an open mind, so our 'healthy' influence may stand for something.
2
I know this is a poor analogy, but, reading about these middle east push backs from their youth reminds me so much of raising my own children---you start out with the belief that rules are rules and your foremost goal is controlling the wild impulses of you children/teenagers. Then, as the years, past, you realize, 1) how far astray you have wandered from your original rules 2) total control of your children's impulses is nonsense and 3) somehow all the compromises/talks/trips/dinners and at times, taking a stand resulted in your kids coming out ok--where these middle east religions go off the rails is not understanding or enacting 1, 2, 3, above.
Unfortunately, the article like most articles covering Iran, overlooks the importance of women and White Wednesday activists. Masih Alinejad and her My Stealthy Freedom movement are gong to be the 2018 Iranian Women Revolution.
@masih.alinejad
1
According to ancient Vedic writings the human race is entering a new age coming out of a rather dark age. The new leads to better understanding and use of energy. As is always the case when something new is coming those who hold steadfast to what was old are going to try and stifle the new.
That is what we see in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the United States. Those who wielded power during the age of steam do not want to lose that power even as it slips away from them.
It might we wise, in the case of the Arab and Persian worlds to remember a great deal of the unrest and chaos we are witnessing are the results of a century of Western colonization and exploiting of the peoples and the oil in those worlds. We might hold that thought a little more consciously in an effort to understand what is really going on there.
Patience and humility might go a long way towards calming the storms we are seeing.
1
if MBS wants to be a true leader, maybe he could donate gazillions to refugees rather than spend it on art and yachts
3
Not impressed! We created the entire mess in 1953 with the 1st CIA covert action to install Shah Pahlavi.
3
Hi there Tom,
I recall your enthusiasm with the emergence of the first signs of the Arab Spring..... What happened? More brutal repression and stagnation in Egypt, Turkey, Algeria and complete chaos in Libya........and now you expect miracles or anticipate genuine paradigm shifts in repressive totalitarian regimes in Saudi Arabia and Iran? The moderate ideas that emerged after the Dark Ages in Europe and gave birth the Renaissance, Western democracies and the Enlightenment took hundreds of years to develop in Europe to what we have today ....and they had been cultivated between very costly
World Wars……The secular vision of benevolent ruling which affords freedom of choice (within boundaries) is incompatible with Islam that states so clearly and demands total subjugation to clerical ruling or “secular” states with despots like in Syria or Pakistan………..I’ve sadly learned to be realistic and not optimistic concerning mind opening changes in Arab/Islamic societies.
Let's hope for the best for the suffering peoples...........Cliff Love, Ein Hod.
2
Mr. Friedman, it’s interesting that you use the word spontaneous. You don’t give any credit to President Trump. Meanwhile, you’ve been very quick to criticize solely based on your opinions.
In your mind, results by President Trump are luck or spontaneous. But your opinions are the truth.
I’m disgusted by your one sided constant opinion pieces.
I have heard nuclear power blamed for many things, but never have I heard it linked to an increase in Islamic terrorism. You state: ".. It also saw the Three Mile Island nuclear accident, which sharply curbed the growth of nuclear power in America. That nuclear freeze ...". This simply cannot be supported by the facts. Nuclear power construction cancelations were already in decline before the disaster at TMI. The nuclear freeze you mention was caused by cost overruns and schedule slippages (which continue in Georgia even today), not by a meltdown at TMI!
2
Sounds a little like Trump in the 2017's.
1
Iran is a Shiite Muslim nation in a sea of Sunni Muslim nations; indeed, Shiite Muslims make up less than 15% of Muslims worldwide. And the extremist Sunni Muslims, many Saudis, are hell-bent on destroying the Shiite heretics. Is it any wonder than Iran feels like it is under siege and must do what is necessary to preserve both Iran and the Shiite faith. This isn't to defend Iran's rulers, but to provide a context, a context that is missing from Friedman's essay. Friedman says he was at the center of the uprisings in the middle east in the late 1970s and thus has knowledge about the region and the motivations of youth. Did he predict, or warn, America that Sunni Muslims from Saudi Arabia would attack America on 9/11, that Saudis would fund the Sunni Muslim insurgents in Iraq who killed and maimed thousands of American soldiers, that Saudis continue to fund extremist Sunni Muslims, including ISIS, who are committing unspeakable acts of violence against Shiite Muslims and Christians in Iraq and Syria? Context, Mr. Friedman.
2
Tribal is the key work. Saudi Arabia is descended from tribal desert bandits. Iran is one of the world's oldest civilisations. The tribal Saudis generated and spread a vicious and pious form of Sunni Islam in jealousy at the success of Iran in getting rid of the US installed Shah.
1
Well Friedman strikes with his overheard here style of polish wingtip views. His following is in a trance to his globetrotting but he is always behind as his love for wealth and the wealthy give him reason to believe his mustache has a purpose but he behind here as here is the omission. The entire 1979 issue and trying to be buried by the Iranian youth.
Due to the latest state of the planet earth's health like the Australian wet-bulb thermometer deaths rather than study the 1979 Perot employee kidnappings WE and THEY should be teaching the reason the first covert action of the CIA forerunner approved by Eisenhower after being refused twice by Truman to instill Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, Shah. All that pollution and planet destruction would still be beneath the sands in Iran. But Friedman will get you confused you and confound you because he loves his wealthy jet-set hopping and is actually not in reality with the planet's illness but won't try to get in it by reducing his carbon footprint.
Just another childish talk about money.
1
What Mr. Freedman fails to mention is that if someone in Saudi Arabia dares to come to streets to protest, his beloved sultan, M.B.S, won't hesitate for a second on beheading them. Just look up what they did to minority shiites, including teenagers a few years ago.
2
When columns are not written as screeds over a lost election, or as clarion calls to deligitimize an outcome anathema to one's overblown sense of self-importance, it can actually be informative and interesting. But nonetheless an exceedingly rare siting in these pages.
Grasping at straws for signs that they are like us. They are not liberal and never will be. They still obey Shari'a and amputate hands and feet for the crime of theft.
1
Thomas Friedman's sycophantic bromance with the Clown Prince of Saudi Arabia is not only repulsive, but increasingly clouding his judgement and being reflected in his dubious writings.
The US- Saudi Arabian- United Arab Emirates war on Yemen in reality is a proxy war effort to overthrow the Iranian government.
While pretending to support democracy in Iran, the US has been involved in a genocidal war against allies of Iran in Yemen.
It did much the same in Syria until Russia stepped in and halted that effort from having any possibility of success.
Iran has for decades blocked and defeated further Israeli aggression and destabilization of Lebanon.
Iran has also annihilated ISIS terrorists and savages in Iraq and Syria that were sponsored, trained and armed by the Saudis, Israelis and the US.
Iran’s current problems are for the Iranian people living in Iran to solve.
The Saudis on the other hand are in the middle of a genocide, being aided and abetted primarily by the US and UK, and a massive western media effort to put Saudi Prince Mohammad bin Salman in a good light.
MbS is a goon, a bully, a despot in the making who has been promoted as a reformist in the western media including the NYTimes.
But he's just a despot in the middle of a genocide.
Obama gifted this goon to bomb Yemen, because he couldn't let his dear wahhabi American ally sit on all the weapons he and Hillary had sold them.
So he gifted them with a genocide & MbS is a reformer according to Friedman.
Disgusting
3
Tom Friedman is an apologist for American foreign policy.
He neglected to mention that the US overthrew Iran’s democratically elected government and installed a puppet dictator — a coup d’etat that empowered the religious fundamentalists who ultimately launched their own revolution in ‘79.
Friedman was slammed by critics and independent media for his recent puff piece on Saudi strongman MBS. The notion that the corrupt MBS is “ahead” of Saudi youth in his progressive values is laughable. And Saudi Arabia was NOT more moderate pre-‘79, as their Wahabbiist brand of Islam has always been anti-woman, anti-immigrant.
He neglects to mention that the US is funding the Saudis’ war on Yemen and is equally guilty for the thousands of innocent lives destroyed by our bombs and the catastrophic cholera epidemic there.
Lastly, Friedman is such a war hawk — infamous for his repeated suggestion that we give our illegal Iraqi invasion and destructive occupation “6 more months” — that his support of Iranian youth comes across as disingenuous, when I have no doubt he’d quickly express support for an American and/or Israeli bombing of Iran of said youth in the possible future.
3
comparing wahhabism with shiah islam,/saudi arabs with persians/ is like apples and oranges!
1
Cyrus the Great's 2016 call, inspired by Trumpism is the Persian quake. It is going to bury little islam in Iran and ME.
The Shites and the Sunnis, a story as old as time or since the Hatfields and McCoys. The bigger issue that Tom omits is the installation of the Shah of Iran by the good old USA, this wanton act led to the overthrow and the installation of the Ayatollah. In regard to MBS, his youth and naivete are untested and he is too beholding to the good life and hanging out with the NY mafia called "the trumps". These groups, don't know what they don't know.
The Middle East has become the quagmire it is by much meddling from both Europe, for example, Barfour and America. Trump's ignorant mindset to isolate and separate Iran further is certainly good for the Saudis and the Israelis but not so good for all others, including the Shites and the Sunnis.
8
Your point about Israel is a tiring falsehood, and offensive.
Israeli leaders on both the left and right largely share the view that the barbarism unleashed by the Sunni-Shia conflicts does nothing to aid the Jewish State's security.
Continuing atrocities in Yemen and Syria -- with a magnitude dwarfing the horrors of even the worst Arab-Israeli wars -- serve only to cheapen the value of life in their neighborhood. Whatever you might think, the Israelis are moral and wise enough to recognize that the bloodletting is bad for them, irrespective of the identity of the victims.
Whether the victims are Muslim, Christian or others, the Israelis recognize that peaceful neighbors are good neighbors.
2
CNN, Al jazeera and WhatsApp/Facebook are the reasons why saudi/iran/global youths want change as despots have lost control of information flow resulting in saudi like political positioning. E.g. saudi youths can make informed decision by digesting widely publisied reforms, purchase of $500M paint, $300M chateau etc. Would MBS have done similar reform if he was the defect heir to the throne?
Thank you Tom Friedman for this review of Iran and Saudi Arabia with starting point 1979 and thank you David (Underwood) for (so far) two fine history lessons one with start point 1953 and the other far back in history. David and I are not so different in age but we grew up on opposite coasts. Perhaps this explains why he knows so much about the history of a country that I only began to learn about thanks to moving to Sweden where I am in constant contact with Iranians of all ages and many educational and economic levels.
I had the good fortune to befriend 18 y ago an Iranian at the Red Cross who is illiterate in his mother tongues, Arabic and Farsi, and whose family in Abadan is far down the economic ladder. He reports weekly that there has been no economic improvement for that family resulting from lifting of some sanctions. If Trump + Netanyahu + Israel's new ally SA maintain their present courses can there be much reason for optimism as concerns Iran?
Friedman is careful to acknowledge unpleasant truths about M.B.S. so for the time being at least we can have a little hope for the better, Insha allah.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
2
Just because a majority of Iranians are young does not mean that they are not fundamentalists. Religion has always been the great psychological defense against awareness of the consequences of our being mortal, evolved higher primates. I suspect that Iranian society has a long way to go before its majority are ready to accept that reality in favor of the comforting fantasy that their religious beliefs reflect the true nature of the our status on this planet.
5
As does large segments of our population 'have a long way to go....'
"We should root for both the Iranian and Saudi youth movements to bury 1979." It is interesting that while we talk about supporting these liberal movements in other parts of the world, here in the great ole' USA there is this fundamental group that wants to take us right to where the Arab world was in '79. I am amazed at how fearful America is and how dangerous we are.
22
Well, it's not like 1979 was such a huge rupture with what came before in Saudi Arabia (as opposed to Iran). After all, the kingdom managed to abolish slavery only around 1962.
1
Now if we could just move the would be ayatollahs in this country aside we would be in a better position to save our democracy. Conservative rightists and religion make for a bad mix when they push themselves into the political arena. Just as it is the youth in Iran and Saudi Arabia who must bring about change, it is the youth in our country who must pave the way forward. The age of the Puritans must be put to rest once and for all. Go to church, temple, mosque but keep religion where it belongs, a personal matter.
12
As I read the column I recalled a recent story about how Iranian wrestlers (or martial arts competitors) had to withdraw from international competition because they would have had to contest Israelis.
You can't tell me that those young athletes who trained for years and put their heart and soul into their endeavors demanded to bail out of the event because of "Little Satan" participation. No doubt they received an order from above, laden with ultimatums.
A small moment, of course, but illustrative of a lot: the old clerics stomping on the young Iranian adventure seekers.
2
Quite possibly, the best synthesis of historical tipping points and current flashpoints - in providing perspective for viewing Islam-related events unfolding in 2018.
I had "Persian" friends at the University in the 70's and the Iran they came from was modern and innovative, though corrupted by the Western oil industry money and bribery. They feared the Shah and stayed in college trying to avoid returning and forced military service. They also feared the conservative Islamic forces. Religious extremists can halt and hinder human progress and losing the billion plus members of Islam and their genius hurts all of humanity.
2
Just two evils of different stripes: religious hardliners and secular dictators. The question is why do so many humans submit willingly to one of the other. At least the Brits don't allow their king and queens to rule their dress, social rules and thoughts.
The Brits enforced the takeovers of many dictators over the centuries that Columbia Ruled the Oceans.
Submitting willingly was not an option with Redcoats marching on you.
Watch the movie "Burn" with Marlon Brando if you want to see how European imperialism worked. Pay attention to the last lines from Brando on where he is sailing away to.
"The biggest question about the recent protests in Iran — combined with the recent lifting of religious restrictions in Saudi Arabia — is whether together they mark the beginning of the end of the hard-right puritanical turn that the Muslim world took in 1979....."
Allow me to answer Mr. Friedman. The answer is no they do not.
"We should root for both the Iranian and Saudi youth movements to bury 1979. It would be a gift for Muslims the world over — and for the world at large, which has spent trillions of dollars countering the furies fueled by that pivotal year."
Correct, you should, but you won't, beyond an irrelevant tweet or op-ed; they are the same. As long as you suffer from relativism, calling despots "moderate", in relation to worse despots perhaps, then your grasp on the reality of the situation will, alas, be shaky at best.
2
Iran’s more moderate president, Hassan Rouhani, said as much in public remarks on Monday:
Can we please stop calling the Iranian President a "Moderate". Just because he shouts less loudly about death to America and Israel does NOT make him a moderate. He wants to abolish open western thought just as much as the ayatollahs. Believing that Iranians would "moderate" with the nuclear agreement was pure progressive folly by the Obama administration. Calling them "moderate" was and still is the biggest mistake they made. Death to America with a smile is not a sign of moderation.
1
Obama had to sell the treaty to our own hardliners. Hence the loose use of moderate for Rouhani. The goal was stopping Iranian nuclear weapons development, and maybe another mideast war started by our friends in Israel and dragging us into yet another sand storm war. I hope no one believed Iran was also agreeing to change over to an American style democracy. Obama never said that.
1
Thank you Tom for your very insightful thoughts about what is going on in Iran and Saudi today.
As a Westerner, you were able to see both sides of the mirror in the Middle East and report on it with an open vision. Sometimes, you have to actually “be there” to really comprehend the social logic attitude of the people. The unfortunate thing going on right now is that our president seems to be taking credit for the uprising. I just pray that his lack of knowledge about anything doesn’t blow it for the Iranian youth.
Since you’ve spent so much time as a Westerner living, working and trying to truly understand the mind set of Islam, would you consider writing an article for us about the real differences between the Shiite & the Sunni mind set? Of course, all of us could just Google it, but I feel because of your hands on experiences dealing with both on a personal level, it would be much more insightful.
4
The irrelevant, immoral, incompetence of the US president is probably one thing the protesters and the Ayatollahs could sit down together and drink to.
Vision 2030? Come on, it has been done and it is called the China model (a.k.a. authoritarian democracy). The regime holds the absolute power and it creates a tight control and build a firewall to limit information sharing. But the ruling elites are also very smart and they know they need to make their people happy in order to legitimate their power. As long as people don't challenge their regime, everything is possible. Tell me where you can find communism in China. The worship of money is more capitalism than the West.
The China model should be a good lesson to other ruling elites. I have been saying this. Even parasite knows not to kill its host. "Breadcrumbs" are not enough and it is quite stupid. Bones with some meat left are smarter! Indeed, we are seeing it. When making deals, also think a little about the normal people. Instead of taking the whole, take half. It is still plenty and it is sustainable. Also by doing so, there will always be people getting some and they become the natural allies and loyal defenders.
Praising Saudi Arabia? No, China should take the credit! And you will see the model spreading.
1
TF's take on Iran ( 'regime has been focused not on empowering ... youth but on extending ... influence... costing billions of dollars' ) could apply equally to the past 50+ years of the U.S.
1
nothing in this article about the shah and how he came to power. it seems to me that religion was not the only factor in making things the way they are. the US will always seem like a hypocrite as long as it ignores our bad actions in the middle east.
4
Russia circa 1917 and the end of the corrupt Tsarist regime...
Iran circa 1978-79 and the end of the corrupt Shah regime...
Russia's replaced by the most venal, most terrifying dictatorial regime the world had ever experienced, state-induced terror, collectivization, etc.
Iran's Shah replaced by one of the most venal and repressive regimes the world had ever seen.
Very little changed...the capacity for humankind to debase, control, plunder and steal remained the same, whether from a Tsar to a comrade, from a Shah to an Ayatollah.
We now see glimmers of that here with the cowardly, slovenly Republican-led national government capitulating to the corruption, greed and lying of the Trump Admin. Our voices have been drowned out by the Supreme Court's Citizen's United decision and the ability of a slim segment of our society to control one political party to do its bidding to the detriment of the populace at large.
Are we much better than Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia when two Republican senators recommend criminal charges for those brave enough to investigate the Trump's campaign corruption?
5
Iran, however, has a skeleton in its closet that Saudi Arabia does not: Operation Ajax, the August 1953 overthrow of the legal government of Iran orchestrated by the United States under the auspices of Kermit Roosevelt and the Dulles brothers. A huge part of this CIA operation was the restoration of Mohammad Reza Shah to the Peacock throne. The Shah ruled his country with an iron fist until his illness and overthrow in 1979. One cannot understand 1979 unless one first understands 1953 and its consequences. For that reason alone, it may be very difficult to see Iran's return to Modernity until those with first hand knowledge of those times are no longer with us.
2
I've always admired the spirit and intent of the 1941 Atlantic Charter that defined Allied goals for the postwar world, chief of which was Article 3: All people had a right to self-determination. We abandoned FDR's contempt for colonial and corporate control after his untimely and tragic death, backed the French attempt to recolonize Indo-China and Algeria that forced Asians and Africans to gain freedom through violent revolution, and let the CIA along with Britain orchestrate the 1953 Iranian 28 Mordad coup d'état that overthrew democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favour of strengthening the monarchical rule of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. I told a family friend about my delight in the 1979 Iranian revolution, a friend who suffered under Nazi occupation and came to America after the war as a refugee. He smiled kindly, and said, "Be careful. Religious fanatics are driving the revolution, and nothing good comes from religious fanatics." We see his observations play out when Jews colonize the West Bank saying God gave the the land of Palestine, Buddhists driving Rohingya from Burma, American Christians who advocate theocracy in our great nation to support segregation and discriminate against their neighbors over sexuality, and Muslims trying to create a caliphate in a region carved up by European powers after WW 1 to advance colonization. I hope the Arab Spring brings renewed interest in secular government throughout the world, including the Middle East.
1
In 1979, I was a young mother of two sons born in Tehran. We had to leave the country as a result of the revolution. When we arrived in 1975, the country was modernizing and growing economically due to the Shah's programs. My husband, who is an engineer was brought in to help the Iranians mine their extensive natural resources for the benefit of the people. We loved the Iranian people and are very sad our grown sons cannot walk on the streets of Tehran, their birthplace. We truly hope the country can return to the open society it once was pre-1979.
5
I hope all members of Congress along with members of the President's cabinet along with President Trump. Then, it is my hope that these leaders contemplate the effect of China's One Belt, One Road initiative, a trillion dollars investment infrastructure project initiative that when complete will affect 65 per cent of the world's population and currently 35 per cent of world's GDP. And then keep Mr. Friedman's column in mind as it makes decisions about the current milinnieal generation and future ones.
2
We, in the US, also have one country and two systems. One rural society and its elected officials, who believe in a White Christian America, with no inclination to support democratic institutions throughout the world, and a focus on gun rights as opposed to voting rights. The second is urban America, a secular, diverse society which believes in a globally engaged, highly educated America, and a government with a collective responsibility to care for its most vulnerable citizens. Americans need to critically evaluate our own country and decide which of these two systems we prefer in 2030.
2
The revolutionary guard are a state within the state and a substantial (if not the major) part of the Iranian economy. That makes them a formidable foe to the progressive forces. Is it not interesting that not many countries have been able to stay clear from the quick sands of religions to seek the firmer grounds of fraternity? Is the US still part of that group (like the founding fathers intended)? Is it not interesting that everywhere young people share dreams of freedom, education and equality while the rural uneducated elders cling to their repressive ways? President Jefferson famously said "I prefer the dreams of the future to the history of the past". We need you back Mr. President Sir, but in the meantime we'll keep dreaming.
3
Ignoring the ongoing violent Shiite-Sunni fraticidal war in West Asia spearheaded by the Saudi Arabia and Iran respectively for the geopolitical dominance it would be hoping against the hope to see the success of the reform impulses driving the youth in Iran or the guided liberalisation in Saudi Arabia under the Saudi royalty. It's too early to see the demise of the hard-line ruling elites in both the cases.
3
"Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman "vowing to restore Saudi Islam to a more “moderate,” pre-1979 iteration "
I doubt that MBS can change Islam to more moderate version at this late stage. Saudi Arabia has successfully promoted Wahhabi radical Islam throughout the planet ever since 1979, trying to change it now to more 'moderate " version is not going to work. extremists will claim that Saudi Arabia is not adhering to the real Islam and they are just in the pockets of the West, that is already a widespread view in Saudi Arabia. Also Salafism that stems from the teachings of Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab is 300 years old, not 30 years old or started with the Iranian revolution of 1979. Radical Islam is here to stay, neither Iran nor Saudi Arabia can change it at this time.
1
I suggest reading the chapter on Iran in Paul Theroux's book The Great Railway Bazaar for a first hand observation of life in 1975. He writes how conservative the culture is outside Teheran: willingly veiled women, people praying in the aisles of moving trains, for example. No political agenda in the book, just observations of everyday life. His book The Pillars of Hercules has a similarly fascinating chapter on Syria.
Iran and Saudi Arabia are two different cultures - 1979 events wanted to ignore these cultural heritages and normalized their society by the simplistic idea of Puritan Islam. It took almost 40 years to show the contradictions of this change - youths of both countries who have no direct experience of events of 1979 now are trying their vision of their society - a modern pluralistic country. Iran has very rich cultural history and it was never closer to Arabic culture - it was close to Indian culture. The common culture was called Indo- Iranian culture. As a matter of fact the early Islamic rulers in India used Farsi as official language not Arabic. It will be better for Iran to claim back its cultural heritage and historical links to Indian civilization.
3
Not sure if you're aware but Farsi is an Indo-Eurpoean language, not a Semetic language such as as Arabic.
1
Americans cannot fight battles for the insurgents in other countries, no matter how much we sympathize with a populace demanding change and no matter how much the change will benefit America.
America, however, can try to hasten the fall of corrupt and repressive regimes by the age-old use of carrots and sticks. Incentives for the current leaders to change are needed, as well as disincentives for those leaders to persist in their cruel repression.
The sincere desire of Saudi Arabian youth for change is evident, but the sincerity of the Crown Prince is still in question.
M.B.S. may be motivated more by his geopolitical wish to be the prime mover in the region and by his determination to advance the Sunni version of Islam by crushing the Shiite variety which predominates in Iran.
In Iran, it is easier to identify the bad guys. They are the corrupt Ayatollahs who bully and persecute a civilian population which, except for a few pockets of poorly educated rural farmers, was always more secular than its Saudi counterpart.
What a great article! I'm sure any of the NY Times reporters working on the Middle East would know all this background and historical perspective, but Mr. Friedman does a great job of putting what we're seeing today into historical and regional context. Let's hope the protests achieve the changes they're fighting for!
1
Pray that we (the United States) stay out of it and let this part of the world sort their future out.
I graduated HS and began College in 1979 and the events of that year are still driving the politics and world we live in today.
3
More and more it's becoming clear that people want to be left alone to live their life as they choose. Mandating how to live will never crush the human spirit, and I wish both countries success in becoming more egalitarian and free.
It's also pretty crazy that social media is the driving force to freedom.
1
We should keep in mind that the metal detectors are a direct result of Bin Laden's fury when we staged troops in SA after the 1st gulf war. That was a bridge too far interfering with their most holy site; hence 9/11.
Ever since we overthrew Mossadegh and put in the Shah, Iranians mistrust America. Today they also mistrust SA. Rouhani hasn't committed any of the sins you rightly attribute to MSB. Are you blaming corruption in your obvious attempt to overthrow the government? Are we not under Trump overfunding the military and global corporations at the expense of our own poor?
In the end we must keep sight of the only reality in the ME--oil and the wealth/power it confers. You seem to be hoping for regime change in Iran that would place the whole ME under one superpower, and complete the takeover attempted by the Shah.
And the world has indeed spent trillions countering our attempts by "shock and awe" to master the ME. And your backing of the Iraq war might make us think you would like to see a war with Iran. Will it never stop?
2
The goal of the Obama/Kerry Iran nuclear deal was to allow time to dissipate the animosities of the old guard and inspire youth to multi-cultural tolerance, cross-cultural exchanges, and major ebbing of terrorist and anti-Israel sentiment. Israel is and has been more than ready to assist the Iranians with technical knowhow. The world is ready for an Iran that sheds it role as one of the "evil empire" sponsor of terrorism. It now appears that the Iranian youth are ready for that, as well.
Will the Old Guard in Iran be out of power before the Iranian Deal loosens its noose on the nuclear threat? Will the more peaceable youth be able to evolve into power or will they have to seize it? This will be interesting to watch.
Whoa Loren
I want the same brand that you are smoking: "Israel is and has been more than ready to assist the Iranians with technical knowhow."
Iran is the only culture being a Nation State that Israel is scared of in the area as they whether young or old do believe in live and let live others; they do stand up against oppression without regard to race colour creed and religion.
BTW the same should go for the youth of Israel and they should stand up against oppression in the Palestinian lands and other occupied territories.
2
It’s too bad that Trump and the GOP have no interest in helping Iran join the more moderate world. I’m sure that ratcheting up pressure will only empower the religious right in Iran. They oppose the nuclear deal as much as our religious right, but for opposite reasons, of course. As for MBS and Saudi Arabia, who knows. It’s hard to imagine that country becoming worse than it was, although it is easy to imagine that in a religious backlash against modernity, they become explicitly opposed to America, focusing on Trump’s embrace of MBS.
I value Mr. Friedman's explanation of the events of the late 1970s at the start of the column. If the US can leave these areas to do as they wish, that would help as well.
1
Early speculation, interesting, but ignores the elephant in the room. Iran fostered the resistance of the Assad regime to similar demonstrations to the tune of hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of refugees. It sacrificed hundreds of thousands of its own soldiers in a suicidal war with Iraq,
including clearing minefields by the simple expedient of sending hordes of hopped-up youngsters on foot to set off the mines. The ayatollahs and the Revolutionary Guard will not shrink from brutal tactics and will not meekly surrender power to street demonstrators.
1
@ geochandler Los Alamos - Unfortunately you do not show the same respect for presenting ME history as does Friedman in his column. You seem to forget that Saddam Hussein was the aggressor, supported openly or less openly by the USA. You seem also to have forgotten that it was an American president who chose to bring war to Iraq with the result that perhaps 100,000 Iraqi civilians died and that the region was left to be torn apart by Daesh, Bashar al Assad, and various factions.
If you are going to throw numbers about so wildly it would be advisable to provide your sources.
My statements are backed by the public record with the only uncertainty concerning the number of Iraqi civilians killed.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Yes, lets root for the youth, without uprooting them with bombs and weapons. Let's fertilize their roots by investing in their small businesses, by exchanging ideas and students, by sharing health research and technology, and bring their art films and music to learn about them (they have a rich cultural history), lets extend a hand of friendship without manipulation, a strategy never attempted. They are eager to connect with us. I have visited Iran and fell in love with their bright young people, many are well educated and full of hope.
4
It is interesting to see the roles being reversed. Saudi Arabia going down the liberal path and Iran rigidly sticking to its hard line. Looking back at its history it is sad to see Iran with its civilization going back many thousands of years and whose culture was much more developed - literature, music, poetry now regressing. The country which gave the world sufi thoughts is becoming closed minded.
Hopefully the younger generation in both these countries will prevail and they will become as open minded . Also that their support of hard liners and jihadist ( directly or indirectly through its citizens ) will stop .
@ Avinder Bindra - A few gestures by M.B.S. are hardly sufficient as evidence of Saudi Arabia going down a liberal path. You perhaps are not familiar with what our ally and we (USA) have been doing in Yemen.
As for Iran, women are the majority of students in universities there, something Saudi Arabia can hardly match. There are many Iranian women here in Linköping, Sweden, some of them my colleagues at the Red Cross. They are well educated and completely a part of Swedish society.
What set the stage for the eventual regression of Iran under the Ayatollah's? Many here would state that the USA did that in 1953, although Verified Richard Luettgen prefers to forget that - see his comment(s).
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
I lived and worked in Iran in the late 70's and the Shah was doing his best to modernized that amazing resource rich nation. That picture that heads Mr. Friedman's commentary here was what I saw in 1979 after the Shah and his family fled the country. The people or Iran WANTED to return to the Dark Ages. I feel no sympathy for them now. They got exactly what they asked for when they took the Americans at the embassy hostage. This is the life they mobilized their revolution for. What's the story now, all of a sudden, 30+ years later they change their mind and they want the nation that THE SHAH OFFERED THEM on a silver plater, building universities, bringing in thousands of high tech specialists to teach and help develop hands-on a great economic potential? They bombed our homes and offices, they tried to chop off our heads. Oh, now they change their mind?
1
@ Jeanette Colville - Fascinating that you lived and worked in Iran in the late 70s yet seem not to know anything at all about the role played by our very own CIA in setting the stage for the revolution.
Even worse is your assertion that "the people of Iran" wanted to return to the dark ages. I have been meeting Iranians for the past 18 years at the Red Cross here in Linköping, and know at least 30 quite well. I assure you that not a one wanted to return to the dark ages.
I knew when I submitted my main comment early this morning when only a few enlightened comments were showing that all too soon comments would be flooded with those like yours.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Mr. Lundgren, may the readers please see evidence of your statement "...the role played by our very own CIA in setting the stage for the revolution." You state that the U.S. CIA, acting on their own, set the stage for a revolution in Iran, and that President Carter had no role in this conspiracy?
I share Tom Friedman’s hope that the young people coming of age in both Iran and Saudi Arabia can throw off the yoke of 1979. But history did not start there. Iranians must also throw off the yoke of the overthrow of their democratically elected government by the US and UK in 1953 and the subsequent twenty-six year repressive rule by the Shah, who was installed by the coup plotters. We conveniently air brush this history of treating the Middle East as a petroleum source that happens to have people living there too.
1
@ Peter Thom South Kent - Peter who are "we" in your last sentence? Certainly none of the first 10 comment writers (Verifieds) out early this morning. I filed my comment then also but as I am not a Verified the comment does not yet appear. One member of your "we" appears directly above your comment. Generalizations do not work.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Can you imagine the current POTUS engaging in an in-depth discussion of these geopolitical histories, rivalries, and nuances? Can you imagine him contemplating the shifts from hard-line religions (Sunni AND Shi'a) to a freer form of society, and crafting foreign policies in light of those? The erosion of world dependence on fossil fuels marches forward, a dependence that has put trillions in the pockets of the Saudi and Iranian ruling elites. He doesn't have a clue, nor an interest, nor the intellectual capacity to comprehend any of it. Can you imagine him sitting down for an in-depth discussion of Persian history and culture? It's laughable, if it weren't so tragic.
2
Sometimes you have to experience something to realize how bad it is for you. Iran and Saudi Arabia are experiencing the same regret that England did when they beheaded their King and embraced Cromwell. Afterwards the British developed a severe hatred of being ruled by the military and being ruled by Puritans.
The best thing that we can do is stay out of it. Our interference led to the 1979 revolution. We need to give them the time and the space to reimagine how they want their countries to be going forward.
Honestly, I think that both countries will surprise us. Iran especially has a rich history and used to be quite visionary and progressive. I suspect that the young people want to move back to those roots.
In 1979 the Iranians overthrew a puppet government set up by the United States to promote its own economic interests. That event of 1979 should not be buried and forgotten by the countries in the region or by us. Our government is still controlled by big business and too often both our foreign and domestic policies manipulate people for the financial benefit of the few. Maybe the Saudis and Iranians are ready for governments that work for the benefit their own people. People, in this case, not defined as corporations.
3
The animus between Iran and Saudi Arabia need not exist. It is a modern aberration that it does--sadly fueled by the United States.
I am a Middle East specialist. I just spent three weeks in Saudi Arabia interviewing a wide range of people. Young people in Saudi Arabia are completely uninterested in the demonization of Iran. They have no personal animus toward Iranians and find the whole posture of their government puzzling. Likewise in Iran, there is dismay and palpable sadness a the insults being hurled at them, and the war their elders seem to be waging with each other without the approval of the public.
Iran and Saudi Arabia should seriously think of burying the hatchet. Together they would make an incredibly powerful counterweight to the United States and Europe. We might then finally see some stability in the Middle East.
16
@ William O. Beeman - WOB, comments began well early this morning but from my current sampling they have gone down hill all too fast, as I expected. I was waiting for you to turn up and now you have. You present something new and perhaps not impossible, thanks for that.
Larry L.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
The established power-structure in Iran is far from perfect. That having been said, however; I have often wondered how the power-structure in the U.S. would feel if, during the cold-war, the USSR had invaded, conquered, and installed puppet governments on our Canadian and Mexican borders as we did on Iran's borders in Afghanistan and Iraq.
1
My impression is that MBS is draining the swamp, even though he is in the desert. It seems like our leader has still not settled on a plumber to drain ours. Then again, I suppose it would require a well thought out plan.
I agree with much of the article, but there are areas where Mr. Friedman treats Iranians unfairly. He appears to ignore realities and is content to repeat Washington, Tel Aviv, and Riyadh's lines when discussesing Iranian influence in the region. He states that:
[The] regime has been focused .... on extending Tehran’s influence over failing Arab states, costing billions of dollars. That’s why protesters were chanting: “Death to Hezbollah” (Iran’s Lebanese Shiite mercenary army), “Death to the dictator,” (Iran’s supreme leader, Ali Khamenei) and “Let go of Syria, think about us.”
The fact is, 40 years after their revolution, the Iranians still receive threats from the US, Israel and now Saudi Arabia on a daily basis. They do not have a real air force to retaliate if their cities are bombed by those countries. So, to discourage such attacks, they want to demonstrate that, if attacked, they can retaliate from ground. That is why they are positioning military forces that are friendly to them as close to the borders of Israel and Saudi Arabia as possible.
If the Israelis and Saudis stop threatening Iranian cities with bombing and the US removes its economic embargo, Iranians have no reason to support "friendly forces" outside their own country. But, as long as the talk of "regime change" in Tehran continues, it is unfair to blame the regime in Tehran from doing its best to survive.
3
Very nice article Thomas. These days yours, Brunis and one or two others are all I read in the NYT.
1
It is easy to pick a date like 1979 and declare that pivotal. The actual history is compelling and very deep. From the Medes to the Persian Empire to Alexander to the Parthians- all pivotal in their own right- we see the development of a culture so steeped in geography. Then came the erosive forces of Mongols, Ottomans, British and finally the Americans- no people want to be a cold war puppet. American cold war policy lit the tinder that is now the smoldering tire fire in the middle east. The Shah never had a chance even without the corruption. If you want answers look in the mirror America, it begins with policies that encourage the very liberties we expect- that is strength not the fear mongering that feeds Eisenhower's military industrial monster. It is still alive and very dangerous.
1
"... is whether together they mark the beginning of the end of the hard-right puritanical turn that the Muslim world took in 1979, ..."
I have recollection of numerous and varied terrorist attacks; hijackings, bombings, etc.. -- before '79. I felt then, mostly now, the Iranian uprising was the result of awareness. An awareness the Muslim world would've been feeling, with or without Western influence, from their regions governance. It was the West's association with that governance, that became the object of protest. For to protest their governments would've been to costly; so they directed their dissatisfaction's against a universally accepted target, the associating infidels. So they vented frustrations, without offending the world in which they had to live. Which seems like a bit of an emotional prison; not surprising the results.
1
Friedman's take on 1979 seems too academic, simplistic, almost sophomoric in trying to tie the Middle East into a nice little bow.
Another simplistic take would be that when the US has a weak President, turmoil erupts in the Middle East to the detriment of peace and US interests.
The Iranian revolution took place under Carter, who failed to support the Shah and failed to adequately address the hostage crisis.
The Arab Spring took place, with encouragement from Obama, and led to leaders that enforced stability in Egypt and Libya being deposed while bad apples in Iran and Syria put down revolutions of the like Friedman is hoping for as the US failed to join on the right side of these uprisings.
Simplistically, but I think accurately, through weak leadership and supporting our enemies rather than our friends, we have created damage that may take generations to undo, if ever.
2
I haven't read every comment here, so my apologies if this has been stated. If one were a cynic, one could argue that to the extent that MBS and Rouhani talk about liberalizing social norms in their respective countries, they are doing so to distract their constituencies from their commitment to engage in a Sunni-Shiite steel cage death match to determine who will wield power and influence over the region.
2
Good informative article. However, it begins with 1979. It thus ignores the Original Sin which generated the retrograde agony. The Fall, which caused the agony of the following 65 years, was triggered by the coup against the democratic Iran of Mossadegh, carried out by the British and US.
We should indeed talk primarily about the current situation, as Friedman does. We shouldn't mull endlessly over the guilt of the West and the possibilities for Iran that were destroyed by British and American imperialism (there is no other word).
On the other hand, in the first or second paragraph of analytical articles about the implications of the Khomeini (counter) revolution, it would be seemly to insert something like "the West begat this horror, and that is to our shame." Such a taking of responsibility doesn't have to go on forever. Just for awhile, until Americans understand that the last nearly 40 years are not to be explained by "crazy Muslims", but by the selfish West.
Would be good to hear from Friedman whether any lessons here to be drawn by Turkey under Erdogan.
In Turkey, a much greater number of protestors, at least as well educated as their Persian peers and concerned generally with smaller issues, were crushed within days. Iran's theocracy is backed by many millions of true believers and an elite military force, the Revolutionary Guards, that puts most non-Western armies to shame.
Friedman may wish Iran's young rebels luck, but the experience of Turkey suggests that their chances are, practically speaking, near zero.
2
No offense Mr. Friedman, but you should know better... While the Iranian regime - especially the supreme leader and and its clique of mullahs - is distasteful, the parallel between the two countries makes very little sense. Iranians had their constitutional revolution, i.e. electing representatives etc. in... 1906. The kingdom of Saudi Arabia was founded in 1932. Women didn't start to drive, work or study in 2017 in Iran. Heck an Iranian born woman won the Fields medal in mathematics in 2014! The current unrest in Iran is a grassroots movement which started as a protest against raising living costs across the country. People are asking for accountability. We already see dissent in the ruling establishment and most likely we'll see the situation tilt in favor of a more liberal political context in the near future.
1
While I take no issue with Friedman's account of the highly negative effects of 1979-and-beyond Iranian and Middle eastern religious extremism, he fails to account for the USA's role in bringing about the Iranian revolution that marked the onset of said extremism in the first place. In 1953 the CIA orchestrated a coup against the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED Iranian Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, with then-President Eisenhower's blessing. Why?.....concern over oil exports and perceived Communist influences. The US then helped install Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, who was a brutally authoritarian monarch. Related issues of nuclear power aided by USA can't be detailed here. Suffice it to say the '79 revolution overthrew the Shah, who ultimately fled here for protection. Present-day Middle Eastern extremism is in part yet another example of disastrous outcome of USA's foreign policy. Note to US: Be careful what you wish for.
3
Tom you may be correct that it all started to accelerate in 1979 with the overthrow of our man in Iran, the Shah Reza Shah. You do know why we put him there – BIG OIL. Nothing has changed yet but we have a different horse in the race now and we are calling him MBS.
You were a cub reporter in Beirut in 1979; but you would still remember the PLO presence in Lebanon though. Israelis invaded Southern Lebanon to drive the Palestinians towards Beirut in 1978 and then again in 1982. IDF formed a Christian Militia South Lebanon Army. SLA collapsed as Israeli Occupation of South Lebanon ended in May 2000.
The above was to ensure we remember history and learn from it. I have visited, done business with Saudi Arabia for many years. I have visited universities/medical centers in Mashhad, Shiraz, Isfahan, Neyshabur, and Tehran as a part of a delegation for International Medical Conference in Iran. I have found the students very articulate, inquisitive, and knowledgeable, some of the papers presented were original research. The way to achieve what you are hoping to achieve is to engage with them as we should engage with the youth all over. We cannot block their entry to our country and expect them to be understanding of our values. Persians are an old and stable Nation State. They are proud people, we need to engage them with respect. If we do, the results would be phenomenal.
Maybe the next generation of this world would do a better job than what we did and peace shall prevail.
1
How many times have we heard Republican politicians throw the past in Iran's face. 1979, 1983, 19 whatever. If the free world (which used to be led by the US) wants to help to liberate Iranian youth, then we must bury 1979. We must get over what happened back then and move forward.
We have good relations with Vietnam and we killed millions of them. We can have good relations with Iran too. But that will never happen if we keep tying the young to the old.
Economic cooperation builds bridges. It knocks down walls. Through increased trade and interaction, relationships are built. We slammed the door on Cuba and Castro stayed until he died.
We can help. Opening doors is the way. Not building walls. Not shutting doors. Modernity has to have a way in. That's what opening doors does.
104
Very interesting column. There are other dynamics to be considered, too. The Sunni - Shiite religious competition/conflict and the political competition between Iran and Saudi Arabia for power and influence in the Gulf region will also play a role in how each government responds to demands for change. However, the column reminds me, to some extent, of the struggles Christianity has had with modernity, including the tension between religious leaders and the laity/general population. That Islam faces these struggles is not unusual. If history is any guide, change will come.....but what it will look like in the end is anyone’s guess.
18
"M.B.S. is a modern ruler presiding over a predominantly traditional society, and Khamenei is a traditional leader presiding over a more modern society.”
Mr. Friedman, you base your column on the approach of these two societies to the events of 1979.
But it makes me wonder if 2018 is shaping up to be Iran and Saudi Arabia's "1968," another pivotal year that some here in the US are celebrating as the baby boomer's coming out party.
Throughout history, revolutions start with the energy (and often anger) of youth. I'm sure it's no secret that MBS, helped in his rise to power by none other than 36-year old Jared Kushner, sees an opening to have his cake and eat it too--modernize society just enough to mollify the masses without ceding any of the political authoritarianism conservative Islam requires to survive.
Who knows where and how the youth rebellion in Iran will end up, but if 1979 was a revolt against the vast wealth of the shah's secular monarchy, maybe 2018 will be the revolt against vast religious extremism.
44
What Iran needs to finally bury is 1953 and Mohammad Mosaddegh. Tom’s regional 1979 romp as a Jimmy Olsen wannabe notwithstanding, 1979 as regards Iran was about two things: 1) an allegation that the U.S. was spying on Iran, which is a joke in light of Iran’s continuing efforts to penetrate other societies, even to the extent of the assassination on foreign soil of its own (many) exiled malcontents; and 2) the efforts of a religious fundamentalist to take political power there by seizing on a manufactured issue of convenience and stirring popular hatred. But 1979 was derivative of the 1953 coup d'état that overthrew a democratically elected government to support the rule of the Shah of Iran – a coup that was organized by Britain (in those days, Britain never was NOT Britain and Albion never NOT perfidious, a persistence in the face of disintegrating empire that I have always admired), as well as by the U.S.
I often get a lot of responses to my comments on Middle Eastern matters, and often from Iranians. They can’t seem to get beyond crystallizing whatever response they’re making to the comment by allusion to that 1953 self-interested act by the U.S.
Our bad. But it’s now been 65 years, and Iranians are not Albanians. Or shouldn’t be.
18
That said, the eventual fate of what seems to some as a tectonic shift in Arab and Persian attitudes may be overstated. Almost all Westerners support the recent “troubles” in Iran, fomented largely by the young. However, they challenge the central nature of Sharia and the mullahs and Imams still have almost all the guns – and to date have demonstrated that they have almost all the ruthlessness.
Not for nothing did Arab Spring fizzle and die. It was about who had the guns.
This is going to take a loooong time.
31
We still haven't gotten over our civil war, and that was over 150 years ago, so why should the Iranians be so quick to get over the 1953 coup? Especially since the coup was done by outsiders?
5
@ Richard Luettgen - Richard, I can be certain that you also receive many replies from ordinary Americans - in addition to a rare Iranian, say "our" man in Teheran whose name escapes me at the moment - insisting that 1953 is as important today as it was then. We are many who are forced unwillingly to resurrect that information for comment writers - one of the Sharons comes to mind - whose view is focused on the occupation of the American embassy as the defining event in USA-Iran relations.
I keep All The Shah's Men close by as a marker of the importance of 1953.
I agree that it is going to take a long time to ever get the Iran I would like to see but for that matter will we ever be able to restore America to the America I thought we had? Not in my lifetime, I suggest.
Larry L.
9
Iran was a very progressive country before the Eisenhower/Churchill engineered overthrow of Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953 for the benefit of British Petroleum, Standard Oil, shell, and four other petroleum companies known as the Seven Sisters.. Iran has not known Democracy since. The Dulles Brothers and their virulent ant communism were the motivating force behind this as Iran was seen as becoming a Socialist state.
But the descent of Islam begins with the crusades and through 1492 with the expulsion if the Umayyad's from Andalusia by the Christian forces. It was the progressive culture of the times, it gave us the numbers we use and algebra. It had hospitals and advance medical treatment of the times. But the Umayyad and Sassanid factions were enemies due to different interpretations of the Koran. The Saudi Sunni's are descendants of those Umayyad's. But they long abandoned the progressive ways of them.
Christianity is as much responsible for the retreat of Islam as they are themselves. Arabic literature was the prime source of learning around the Mediterranean and the libraries were destroyed by the Christians. Many of their great mosques were either destroyed or defiled such as the one in Cordoba.
The Iranians are descendants of the Persians, indo Europeans, the Saudis are Semites. They both have histories if learning an knowledge, hopefully their young will return to these roots.
152
Meanwhile back in my South Side of Chicago born and bred black world stuff was not happening.
Black people were still fully separate and unequal in Jim Crow 1953 America. Brown v. Board of Education was a year away. While the Montgomery Bus Boycott was two years off. The March on Washington was a decade away. Ending Jim Crow in education and employment was 11 Birmingham Alabama years in the future. Black voting rights in the South were 12 Selma Alabama years away.
"I am an invisible man" unnamed protagonist in "Invisible Man" by Ralph Ellison
"Text without context is pretext" Reverend Jesse L. Jackson, Sr.
1
@ David Underwood - I just submitted a comment in which I thank you for your history lessons (2 so far) and wonder how come you know all this. Growing up in New England and graduating from Brown in 1953 I would not have known there even was an Iran or that the CIA deposed Mossadegh. Only by moving to Sweden was I introduced to that world and history which became a passion - to learn more.
As you well know, the comment columns are filled weekly with comments from readers resolutely displaying their lack of knowledge - or repression of knowledge - about Iranian history and the role of the Brits and the US in undermining Iranian development.
Reading your comments was a great way to begin the day on a dramatically dark day outside here at 58 N.
Larry
3
The descent of Islam as a home of enlightenment and learning can be traced back to the Mongol sack of Baghdad in 1258. Baghdad was the center of intellectual life in the Islamic world, and the home of its best libraries. The crusades, while troubling for the Islamic world, did not fundamentally alter it. The Mongols under Hulagu Khan in sacking Baghdad killed off the Abbasid Caliph, and the flower of the Islamic elite. It marked the end of the golden era of expansion and enlightenment for the Islamic world, which thereafter became increasingly inward looking and backward.
.
The violence of the relatively brief Mongol rape of Eurasia under Ghengis and Kublai Khan also profoundly changed the Russian and Chinese peoples, making them more fearful of outsiders, desirous of stability over freedom, and aware that a civilization can end quickly, violently, and profoundly. The people and cultures who are most resistant to Western liberal ideas are those who descend from societies traumatized by the Mongol hordes, the greatest mass murderers in history. They changed the world in ways that still echo today, almost a millennium later. Always give thanks that Kublai Khan died when he did, which marked the end of the Mongols westward expansion as the Mongol empire disintegrated. The small part of Eurasia that escaped the Mongols created the Enlightenment and all that followed.
2
Great article. Maybe there is hope after all.
14
Hoping that Saudi Prince Muhammad Bin Salman is a combination of Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. is an insane unstable stupid delusion.
Believing that American Prince Jared Kushner is the reincarnation of a combination of Abraham, Moses and Joshua has a similar pedigree.
1
I graduated high school in 1979. I was at boarding school in Europe. My sole purpose was to go back to Iran to study medicine and then work as a doctor helping to alleviate rural poverty. I remember distinctly Europeans and Americans alike denouncing the Shah as if he were some tyrant who committed all kinds of evils. It wasn't the Shah that I knew growing up as a foreigner in Iran -- a foreigner who learned the language and whose non-Iranian parents insisted that I attend classes and take the local exams. In many ways Americans and Europeans back then spoke about the Shah like many people today speak about Trump. Blind vitriol without any focus or understanding of the balance in choices that have to be made to run a great country. So it's not only the citizens of Iran in 1979 who have much to regret -- it is also the Americans and Europeans who in the thousands poured money into supporting the destabilization of what was back then the only real Western country in the Middle East outside of Israel. That Saudi Arabia is trying to assume this role today is laudable and should be encouraged. And that the Iranians themselves are chanting in the streets: "Reza Shah. We made a Mistake. We Apologize." is remarkable. I would hope that Americans and Europeans who foolishly jumped on the bandwagon of the anti-Shah so-called revolutionaries and thus triggered the replacement of an enlightened dictatorship with a brutal, Stalinistic, dictatorship would have similar reflections.
79
In 1979 I believed, like just about everybody else, that the ousting of the Shah and the return of Khomeini, was a sign of progress and freedom in Iran. So it felt right to express my congratulations to an Iranian I met on a train.
His reply opened my eyes. He told me that he was planning on remaining in Europe because his country would be thrown back to the dark ages.
6
What about the Shah and his Brutal secret police - the SAVK being hated by the Iranians . Also the USA propped up the Lavish life style of the Shah and the rich for 27 years. Can't remember that? Only people over 60 would remember life under the Shah and most of the protests were young - so basically they wouldn't know.
Nice history lesson but doubt its credibility.
2
Question for Incognito - Did you have any contact with the Sha"s Secret Police or his infamous prisons?
1
It is so easy to pigeonhole groups of people. But the resolve and defiance of young people and women in the Muslim world should be recognized and commended. Rather than simply accept existence social mores, they are shaping the lives and world they want.
Social progress everywhere starts like this.
20
Excellent analysis of historical forces.
14
Terrible ignorance about historical forces that lacks context and perspective.
1
Change will not be the problem, it will be the TRANSITION SYSTEM put in place. DJM
3
I've been a critic of Tom Friedman's forays in business and technology over the decades (from the "McDonald's Theory" of international relations to "the world is flat") but I think his expertise in the Middle East is second to none. This oped absolutely nails it as far as I'm concerned. 1979 was such a pivot year for the world and not for the good. Literally millions of people have died in the wars since then and the whole world has suffered grievously. Let's hope this crown prince can succeed in modernizing his country where the Shah of IRan failed and we can get a new, moderate Islam. Maybe unlikely but we can hope.
62
Look at the picture closely and you can see a whole lot of women not wearing hijabs and none are wearing a chador. Hard to believe this was less than forty years ago in Iran.
54
@ William Georgia - I saved that picture and then viewed at maximum enlargement. I do not see all that many women and I am guessing hijabs are on 50% of the women I can see. They are packed together I do not see how you can tell who is not wearing chador. But I agree with your main observation. Here in Linköping I do not know a single Iranian woman who wears hijab.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
2
We should not presume that more youth-leaning, less conservative regimes in these countries will be anymore interested in dong the US's bidding on anything.
10
Why should any country be interested in doing the US’s ‘bidding’?
1
Nothing fails modernity and reality like good old-fashioned organized religion and the corrupt conservative political handmaidens and preachers it produces.
The religious right has consistently trashed the Middle East and America by failing to evolve and by continuing to demand medieval cultural supremacy instead of democratic modernity.
Iran used to be a very progressive, liberal country before religious radicals hijacked it down a religious dead-end.
It's not 1979 that needs to be buried; it's organized religion that deserves a well-earned global funeral.
The people of Saudi Arabia, Iran and the United States deserve so much more than regressive religious rot.
225
Those religions radicals were the result of the Shah who was brought to power by the overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh for the benefit of the Seven Sisters oil consortium. The eventual installation of the Shah who while western friendly was oppressive and also corrupt lead to the raiding of the U.S. Embassy and the documents showing America's complicity.
Iran's heritage goes back to the Indic with writing in cuneiform during the Rule of Herod. Before Islam the religion was Zoroastrianism. Red hair and light skin is predominant among Iranians, showing their descendency from Indo European roots, the Perian language is from the Sanskrit. Islam was was hijacked by Christian radicals in the 15th century.
Read "The Ornament of the World" by Maria Rosa Menocal, a history of al Andulus, or Andalusia as we know it today. It is why names of come areas in Southern Spain have Al as a prefix, such as the Alhambra, Alcazar, the coastal Alcantra, remnants of progressive Islamic culture.
67
But recall how the Iranian revolution came about. It was due to the failed leadership of the Shah backed by the USA which led to the street protests and revolution. The religious faction rode on that to power. A new secular government that does not address the needs of its people (including religious needs whether we agree with them or not) are susceptible to the same instability.
2
It's always amusing to see the careful omission of the fact that the Muslim invaders raped, pillaged, extorted, and labor- and sex-slaved their way across what we know of as "Spain," not "Andalusia." An interesting counterpoint to Menocal's breathless advertising for Islamic invasion is "The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise" by professor Dario Fernandez-Morera.