What was the point of this article? As an Asian American woman reading this was a waste of time. Trying to create drama when there are more compelling topics of discussion that exist. Snooze.
158
First, to the alt-right, white nationalists and supremacists, KKK, and anyone else still afflicted with this delusion of white racial purity: there is none. (no other racial purity either) Not here or anywhere else on earth. Even the "whitest" of white northern Europeans, have DNA from the Neanderthal and other pre-human groups, just for starters. I test at about 3% Neanderthal DNA (average is around 2.5). In addition to Irish and English ancestry, I'm part Spanish, Dutch, and so-called black Irish. I'm proud of every drop of all of it.
If these alt-right young men can give respect, tenderness and affection to their Asian American girlfriends, then maybe this phenomenon will benefit both. If they have dreams of subservience and hyper-sexuality, then it will be a hard case of live and learn.
Good luck to all--JG
34
There was this beautiful film about an Indian-American girl who is dating a Black boy, Denzel Washington. The Indian girl's father ( Naseeruddin Shah ) is very upset and angry when Denzel nobly, in the old-fashioned way asks her father for her hand. And the father erupts. That's when Denzel erupts too accusing her father of being racist. That had he been white, he would have given his blessing. Audrea Lim hits that same button.
27
There's not much contradiction here: the root that unites every far-right ideology/political doctrine is racial superiority. In other words, there's no humanity: instead there are many races that, united, make humanity.
Those races are not equal: there are at least one that is inherently superior to the others. During 18th Century America, for example, there were many variations of these kind of reactionary theories: one of those, for example, stated that, when you mix one black person to white blood for four generations, the person born would be "purified" from black blood.
The alt-right may just idealize/propagandize Asians as the superior race, and is using this as a rationalization to mix with them. Of course, as with every right-wing ideology, there's an abyss between what is officially preached and what is privately practised by its leadership (Hitler is quoted as admitting the Jews were not a race, in private). This Asian idolization may be just a legitimation of an Asian fetish by white men -- the rest being just a happy coincidence for them.
16
What delicious irony hat this article never even for a second stops to consider the perspective of the Asian women who are (purportedly) dating these white nationalists. They have no agency, no voice, and are talked about by the author as if they have no choice whatsoever in whom they date.
Truly delicious irony.
Maybe we should take a whole let less interest in the private lives of complete strangers....especially their love lives.
101
As the husband of a woman who is "cute . . . smart . . . and has a kind of thing going on . . " and is also from Japan, I find this article offensive. It seems that the PC Gestapo wants to attack the motives of (white) men who happen to be attracted to or marry Asian women just because a handful of neo-Nazi misfits have "yellow fever." Ms. Lim has bought into the "race rap," and it will trap her mind until she comes out of the dark cave and sees the light - that the world is a complicated and ambiguous place.
I lived in East Asia, mostly Japan, for over 25 years. Speaking of racism, both the Japanese and the Koreans are often obsessed with the so-called "purity" of their "homogeneous" races and cultures. And the Chinese view the Tibetans as racially and culturally inferior to themselves, which is why the Chinese occupation of Tibet may actually be even worse than the Japanese occupation of Korea.
White racism is bad, but just don't make it a cover for other kinds of equally bad racisms.
103
Wonder does the author agree with the Alt-Right that miscegenation should be discouraged and the races should mostly exist in separate nations to prevent it?
26
OMW!
She's suggesting nothing of the kind. It requires some kind of casual, careless reading to reach such an interpretation!
Re-read her column; read about the myth of the model minority, explore and think about the work of scholars who have examined the myth and their takes on it.
Once you do, you'll see revealing and offensive your question/comment/snarky remark really is!
44
There are passive and submissive women in all races. Just like there are the opposite traits in all races. It is just easier for this author to pick them out because we look different. Just because the author is Asian doesn’t mean she isn’t a racist herself. She is saying that white men asian women couple are the product of some unsavory white supremacist ideal. I don’t know what world she lives in but in my world, the asian women I know are physicians lawyers and engineers among other careers. They are all able to stand on their own without their white husbands if they chose to. There are plenty of women of all races that cannot, so quit singling out your own race.
39
That is absolutely NOT what this author said. Reread the article.
63
It is ironic how the author discusses prejudices of the prejudiced in a way that is essentially two prejudices of the group referred to as "alt-right". Particularly ironic in that the piece is certainly written to paint them in a negative way.
[this is not to say that the individuals mentioned are defensible people and should not be viewed negatively but rather just interesting]
6
Thank you for a thought-provoking article.
26
It is not by education and hard work alone. The author failed to address a key contributor to Asian-Americans' success as the "model minority" (the term itself is derogatory rather than complimentary, but that's another discussion).
Asians are able to assimilate more easily as "model minority" partly due to the success of the Civil Rights movement, to which Asian-Americans contributed very little or nothing. This battle was fought by black people and their white supporters, who often paid a very high price including death. To this day, Asian-Americans prefer to be muted rather than speak out against racial injustice, even where it directly affects their community. They prefer not to jeopardize their status as "almost white", as alluded to by this writer.
In a NYT article, an Asian-American passionately expressed this historical apathy of Asian-Americans toward racial injustice, acknowledging that his own "conditional whiteness" was due to being an "educated, upwardly mobile Asian-American".
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/23/magazine/how-should-asian-americans-f...
Are Asians hardworking and successful? Yes. But it is easier to be successful if you are not a target of systemic discrimination and visceral hatred for centuries, as blacks have been.
68
Don't treat Asian Americans so monolithically.
You are stereotyping them that way.
Plus, your very comments reflect the *myth* of the model minority. There are huge variations in achievement within the different groups and among them; many struggle; many are discriminated against; many do not assimilate so readily for many reasons -- language, culture, and racism.
Time to revisit your ideas and especially read scholars who have examined the myth of the model minority in great detail.
Hint: it's a *myth*!
42
Anyone who says Asian women are docile and subservient has not spent much time with an Asian-American family. I am a white guy who married a beautiful, intelligent, and caring Asian woman years ago because of the content of her character. I have lived with her family for over ten years. They are all good people. My family fled Europe to escape oppression and starvation during the Great Famine in Ireland. Their family left Asia to escape war and starvation after the Vietnam War. My mother taught me to judge people by the content of their character. Enough said.
53
I am an immigrant and I believe all immigrants owe something to the country they want to live in. We all have to integrate, we need to learn English. The segment of the right that votes for republican even though it is against their own economic interests. They do have a point and that needs to be recognized. Liberals are almost like let everybody in more and more. Then it does not become like a melting pot. It becomes a salad bar. My kids have to learn English first then whatever other languages. I say Merry Christmas to Christian friends or others and it does not make me less of something. Adaptation is the key.
30
Far East Asians (and Indians) proved themselves (like many other immigrant communities, generally even more than the rest) to compete with the majority population in criteria that represent success and admiration: most of the rest steamrolling academics achievements in K-12 and (prestigious) colleges alike, the ability to resits instant gratification and seeking postponed gratification instead.
Thus, based not only on government statistics showing Asian-American household income and wealth surpassing the rest and on par with Jewish-American households, have done - on top of that in general without any governmental program, quite well, thank you.
They (apparently more than other Americans) believe and actually follow priorities such as family, education, saving, professions, ambitious long-term goals, etc.
My three male relatives, while at college in 1980s, all dated and then married Asian-Americans. educated, with professional careers, family and common-sense, "traditional values" oriented. They all have strong, partnership of equals marriages, no divorces and good, loving yet gently demanding mothers (not exactly "tiger moms":).
So to those 3 men (and many white men and friends in their communities around SF Bay area and the West Coast) that "Asian women fetish", supposedly typical for those "deplorable alt-rights", as anecdotal and statistical evidence has been working quite well.
22
In re the "model minority," the author is setting up a straw ideology. She writes that according to this theory, "Asian-Americans are painted as all hard-working, high-achieving and sufficiently well-behaved to assimilate [which is how] nonwhites can find acceptance in white America."
Nonsense. Asians are a model minority (and so are America's Ethiopian, Nigerians, Russian, and Indians, among others) because they in general aspire to core American values of hard work, high achievement, and good behavior. Not as a hard and fast rule. In general.
What should our model minority be, in the alternative? One that exhibits a higher percentage of anti-social behavior in comparison to the general culture? Or are we in such a post-modern age that we cannot hold groups of people as examples to others?
39
Instead of anecdotal evidence of an Asian female fetish, the more significant, underlying factor not discussed by the writer is that white supremacists may see their vision of America mirrored in East Asian countries: all patriarchal monocultures, each impacted by xenophobia as well as traditional notions that harmony of the group is preferred over individual desires.
53
Having taught a course at Kalamazoo College several years ago on model minorityhood formation and resistance in Jewish- and Asian-American literature, I can add that three ethnic groups have been mythologized as “model minorities”: Americans of Jewish, East Asian, and South Asian
Indian heritages.
16
Very insightful article, and I do think you are on to something. But, let's just make sure the achievements of Asian-Americans aren't disparaged because Alt-Right jerks posit them as a model minority.
Is it not true that Asian-Americans do better than average by practically any measure of success, from grades to scores to careers to rates of alcoholism, drug use and broken homes.
And is it not true that they accomplish this in the face of widespread and persistent implicit bias?
15
The fact is that White men have always engaged in sexual relations with women of all races - Black, White , Asian , Latino.Arab etc... This is not new. This includes racist White men. Historically speaking, the mainstream media has given White men a free sexual platform.
In fact, many racist and sexist men see women as inferior and thus engaging in sexual activity with women reinforces their power and supposed superiority. It is a psychological thing.
While it is highly unlikely that a racially conscious or racist woman will/would engage in sex with a man of another race, more often than not this is not, the case for men.
The fact is when it comes to sex, the race of a woman means very little to many men regardless of race. for these men, It is about power, fantasy and control.
31
Sometimes people fall in love for the usual reasons. Whatever their politics.
In my humble opinion this piece is unwittingly racist. It disparages any white man who marries an Asian woman, and any Asian woman who marries a white man. What about Asian men who marry white women? It happens. And as to the “myth” of the model American minority, has the author ever been to a campus of the University of California?
29
Nationalist white men who date Asian women are looking for someone who is obedient and subservient. The bigger question is what do these women see in these men? I can see liberal college educated Asian women choosing a liberal college educated man that treats her equally - I can't understand why an Asian woman would trade an Asian patriarchal misogynist for a white nationalist patriarchal misogynist. What is the attraction?
It would be good to remember that there are many Asian girls that grew up in Caucasian homes after they were adopted as infants.
21
This article is nonsensical to me. The author starts with some examples of alt-right writers and their references to dating Asian women. Then the author talks about her high school days when she tried to distance herself from her Asian peers. Next, she talks about Tila Tequila and US serviceman overseas. Very confusing article and even more confusing title.
28
Lucky you that this sounds like nonsense to you.
I am not Asian, but I am a woman. Everything in the article is new but familiar to me. You can't understand it, probably because you have never been the OBJECT of chauvinism. The idea that a man has an idealized version of what you ought to be in his head based on your gender and/or race is something you have never experienced. And you have done absolutely nothing to earn this enviable immunity.
39
So why is the article titled 'The Alt-Right's Asian Fetish'?
11
Can we please have ‘benign neglect’ on race relation at least for a while ?
17
One glaring omission from the author's analysis is any discussion of the role of stereotypes about East Asian men in propagating the Asian fetish. To the extent there is an alt-right fetish for Asian women, it is likely driven in equal parts by the stereotypes about East Asian men as un-masculine and sexually inferior to white men (stereotypes the acceptance of which is not limited to white supremacist circles -- a topic that deserves a whole separate essay) as any stereotypes about East Asian female subservience. The fetish is a proxy for racial conquest and an assertion of racial superiority by white men over Asian men. As others have noted, it's unlikely these alt-right men would be so accepting if the situation were reversed and Asian men were seen in numbers in intimate relations with white women. And, though it may not be popular to say, one cannot deny the complicity of some of the Asian women who date members of the alt-right and implicitly ratify their racist assumptions about the world.
30
I chuckled when Ms. Lim wrote about the stereotype of docile Asian women! I'm white, and my beautiful Thai wife and I met in a 5th grade classroom in the Koreatown section of LA in 1984 while we were part of the education program at USC. She was a teacher’s aide as part of her Master’s program paid for by her employer, the Thai Ministry of Education. I embarked on my second career after 5 years of farming in Montana and California.
Thai means “free people”, and they are the pride of Asia for remaining independent during the colonial period. Don’t plan on viewing The King and I in Bangkok because Thailand banned the film for its condescending view of Thai royalty. We researched Thai jewelry, and I met a woman who sourced jewels internationally and said Thais are some of the shrewdest dealers she knew.
We lived with my parents soon after our first son was born for financial reasons, and one of my greatest regrets was not teaching our kids Thai. I'm still learning English, anyway. My wife was speaking Thai to our kids, but my mom reprimanded her and insisted she only speak English, unbeknownst to me. Elders are revered in Thailand, so she simply nodded and kept the reprimand silent until a few years ago as a matter of respect not docility. Asian women may appear docile, but they really rule the roost unlike white racists and some religious conservatives who believe women are subservient to men.
6
Let's keep it real. The model minority is no myth. Liberals like to dismiss achievements of Asians because they like to pretend that free will doesn't exist and some people don't work harder than others. Yes, we don't have enough class mobility, something liberal elites add to by supporting zoning, private schools for the rich only and internship and college admission bias. However, the efforts of Asians and Nigerian Americans and others is real. Sure there are exceptions, but how many Asian Americans ask you for a dollar when you go to 7-11 compared to their percentage in the population? Asian kids of low income in SF do better on tests than non-free and reduced lunch black and Latino kids. It's not because of a racist conspiracy. It's because their parents divorce less and teach them to read before starting kindergarten 60% of the time vs. 16% for whites and less for others. It's because they study over twice as many hours as whites in middle and high school, watch TV less, read more, do less drugs. Decisions in childhood determine success/income in adulthood. Give credit where credit is due. There is a cultural focus on grades, test scores, saving and delayed gratification. No excuses, study or be criticized, not have excuses made for you. Poor kids can do well in school if they pay attention, study, read and turn off the TV. Obama said as much. Give credit and try to get all kids to do what they do. There will be no poverty in this country.
32
When I was visiting Zambia in the 90's, my cab driver told me of three races of the world. They were the Muzungus, the whites, the Mublakies, the black Africans, and the Muhines (spelling?), the Indians.
And, who was I, I asked.
A Muzungu.
And I was from the Far East.
More recently I was in Uganda. At a bus stop, a group of young men took notice of me, the only foreigner they'd probably seen all week. One of them called me "Chin". Another said no, and pondered hard and finally uttered the word, "Japon".
How time has changed.
Infinite differntiation is the basis of knowledge.
Lumping everything together is for cooking three days before moving.
5
I inherited two framed Vladimir Tretchikoff art prints, including The Chinese Girl. In gilded framing, these pictures always inspire favorable comments. I am a liberal.
4
According to the Pew Research Center, “Asian and Hispanic newlyweds are by far the most likely to intermarry in the U.S. About three-in-ten Asian newlyweds3 (29%) did so in 2015, and the share was 27% among recently married Hispanics. For these groups, intermarriage is even more prevalent among the U.S. born. 39% of U.S.-born Hispanic newlyweds and almost half (46%) of U.S.-born Asian newlyweds have a spouse of a different race or ethnicity.” U.S. born Hispanic Americans now outnumber immigrant Hispanic Americans.
Hispanics are an ethnic group, not a racial group. They can be of any race or mixture of races, but most Hispanic Americans self-identify as white. Intermarriage between Hispanic whites and Non-Hispanic whites—or “Anglos,” as they are called in Southwestern states—is so common that the distinction between the two groups will probably disappear by mid-century. (Blonde, blue-eyed actress Cameron Diaz is Hispanic American.)
If the children of Asian Americans who marry white Americans also marry white Americans, their children will be regarded as white.
Only about 12 percent of blacks intermarry, but since much of what we perceive as racial prejudice is actually class prejudice, their intermarriage rate will increase if their income level increases.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/intermarriage-in-the-u-s-50-ye...
9
The observation from this white male about white male/Asian female relationships is that they tend to fall into two categories:
Category 1: Couples whose principle attraction to one another is intelligence, academic and professional accomplishment, and overall high achievement. In other words, two people who have a lot in common but just happen to be of different races. (I married a Jewish woman for these same reasons. There just happen to be a lot of accomplished Asians and Jews at the top universities.)
Category 2: Men who want subservient wives or sex partners. Fortunately I've personally known only a few couples in this category, but it's really creepy. Perhaps the most troubling was a classmate in medical school who seemed to be a decent guy, until he invited me to dinner. He ordered his Chinese wife around like a servant. She rarely spoke on her own, and said little when she did speak, despite speaking perfect English without any hint of an accent. The pathological power dynamic permeated their house like a miasma.
With this in mind, I wonder how many Neo-Nazis who are married/partnered to Asian women are more interested in preserving the white male power structure, especially within their own homes, than maintaining some abstract concept of genetic purity.
22
Who anyone dates and married is their business, no matter what their political views are.
18
Very insightful. Well written.
13
Great essay. The particular creepiness of the misogyny inherent in the "model minority" myth is not often emphasized, and Lim does it incisively, transitioning between her own experience and historical references with ease. Brava!
People who think that her argument fails because she doesn't explicitly state the fact (and it is a fact) that LOTS of white guys fetishize Asian women are clearly not getting her argument. White supremacists are the open sores of a sick, racist body politic. That they admit their racism and that it includes, without contradiction, an Asian-girl fetish, is Lim's entire point. It's racist and it's still racist when other guys who aren't openly racist have it.
39
What a twisted "logics" you have to help yourself with to get your - predictable - political point!
How tell me: How you know and distinguish that the army of (white) liberal (and feminist) males who love and fall into (Far) East Asian woman "fetish" are not acting on their subliminal racist (not top mention misogynist) impulses?
Your attempt to twist any fact into a swipe against those on the right reminds me of those who - despite an overwhelming statistics of men accused of sexual misconduct (among media and Hollywood figures)- are men who (often with great and loud effort) have been presenting themselves as "progressive", liberal, women rights warriors and such - sexual misconduct is somehow more prevalent among conservatives.
Good try, not.
5
Interesting article. Ties in with a video I saw on youtube on why is it so common for Asian women to date White men. Why not Indian men, Latin men etc etc. Anyone should date/marry whoever they want based on chemistry and love but all too often you see Asian women with white males. Is it an inferiority complex on the side of Asian women or possibly the message of "marry into better status"? And the white man as we have seen of late is considered the superior race.
21
What's interesting is that you rarely if ever see a Caucasian woman with an Asian male.
37
Not true. My sister-in-law is married to a Korean man. Another couple we know is caucasion woman and a Vietnamese man. Hey, we don't know that many couples.....
4
According to the Pew Research Center, "There are dramatic gender differences among Asian newlyweds as well, though they run in the opposite direction – Asian women are far more likely to intermarry than their male counterparts. In 2015, just over one-third (36%) of newlywed Asian women had a spouse of a different race or ethnicity, compared with 21% of newlywed Asian men.
9
Asians, especially Chinese and Japanese are far more racially prejudiced than those of European descent.
27
I learned this very quickly when I moved to Hawaii. Wow did it ever shock me. The prejudices were worse than Southie in Boston where I came from.
16
As a white person who once spoke Mandarin fairly well, I understand this to be true. Chinese often spoke in front of me under the assumption that I didn't understand, and I heard a lot of shocking statements. Some funny episodes, too.
However, the reality is more subtle.
Racist and prejudiced comments are more tolerated in the Chinese culture than here in the US, so one just hears it more. I suspect if Americans or Europeans had no qualms about expressing racist opinions, we'd hear them a lot more.
Second, many Asian countries are much more racially homogeneous than America or Europe. It's easier to stereotype when one doesn't personally know anyone in the group being stereotyped.
17
In a white supremacist patriarchy like the U.S., women (especially women of color) are often not seen as human beings. As such, I doubt that alt-right white men date East Asian women because they like or love their girlfriends as individuals. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if most of these men choose to date East Asian women exclusively because of the stereotypes that they are sexual and passive. It is wholly possible to date and have sex with someone whose humanity you don't respect.
29
Case in point: Senate Tortoise Mitch McConnell
31
Yes. Very much case in point. I was flabbergasted when the misogynist Trump, made Sen. Mitch McConnell's wife Elaine bend down and display the long list of Trump's achievements, arms stretched out like a mannequin ....with a stuck pasted-on smile! I am Asian-American and I was sickened. Audrea Lim has hit the nail on the head.
19
I cannot see how any woman of any race could be in a relationship with a white supremacist, particularly when misogyny is a recurring part of their ideology. Ladies of all races, respect yourselves, find a true gentleman, and leave these disgusting guys to themselves until they start treating all people with respect!
29
As has been noted here by Illa B, and in some sociological research---the book JewAsian (Nebraska U.P.)--- Jewish men often seem to prefer Asian women, too. So Richard Spencer and the Al Right have that much in common with the people they revile.
17
Wow! Bravo!
3
It's definitely a two way street. Asian women are fetishized in western culture, but I have met plenty of Asian women who only want to date white men and would not ever consider dating an Asian man because Western culture has taught us that Asian men like myself are girly and undesirable. For many women, dating a real man means dating a white man.
57
Precisely, if it weren't a two way street it wouldn't be a thing, the author is disingenuous not mentioning it.
21
The alt-right looks to Asians to support their delusions of white supremacy.
They see Asians, both males and females, as being non-threatening, and almost nonhuman, "model-minorities" eager to please the white majority.
In their eyes, Asian females are to be possessed and controlled, while they supposedly do whatever it takes to please the white master.
Asian males, as they see it, are near-eunuchs; nerdy genius worker bees who do not speak up for fear of upsetting the white overlord.
Let's not pretend that this is limited to the alt-right, as it spills over into white "progressives," as well; though not often acknowledged.
59
A more appropriate topic would be the stereotypes about alt-right White men: self-serving, arrogant, ignorant, and egotistic, which makes them not terribly good in the bedroom.
15
It's a lower-class white thing. The white nationalist/MRA stuff is plainly overcompensation for their status insecurity. They don't really believe in their superiority. They data Asians because they think Asians have superior genes and culture. It's the same reason so many alt-righters have that creepy obsession with anima and manga.
9
My question would be; are there white supremacists on the extreme left?
Another question; would a white supremacist turn down sex with a black woman?
One more question; can we please stop talking about white supremacist and just go about the job of making them irrelevant.
7
Pay attention. During slavery, white supremacists had forced sex (aka rape) with black women all the time.
And it wasn't just way back then either.
Read the story of Ruby McCollum.
10
Now I feel bad for East Asian women. Isn't it enough that they have to deal with pigs like Weinstein at work? Now, thanks to Andrea Lim, they are stigmatized as an accessory to Alt-Right men. Americans people are fascinated by everything French women do. Wish they could treat East Asian women the same.
12
The question is: are they willing partners or not?
9
Just wondering why Ms. Lim thinks it is Alt-right boys having obsessive preoccupation with Asian girls and not the Asian girls having white boys' fetish? After all, she should be an equal-opportunity believer!
44
Men stereotype women every day on both sides of the political spectrum. The men who can't get enough of asian women are the same men who when they are rejected by a white woman calls her a lesbian. Most of them are losers.
27
Is Mark Zuckerberg racist for marrying an "subservient" Asian wife or does he get a pass for being a good liberal?
24
You missed the point. Obviously it's not racist to marry someone of a different ethnicity. The author is talking about racial stereotyping and how it affects Asians.
Most men and women don't marry because they harbor a racial stereotype. Those that do often see their marriages fall apart.
11
What is it about the alt-right that obsesses the alt-left?
Every observant American knows that the alt-right is a minuscule band of pathetic misfits and losers playing war games in the prairies and dressing up in their jackboots and saying "Sieg Heil" to one another.
Last August, the alt-right held a "free speech" rally on Boston Common.
You know the rest. MPR reported that a few dozen rally attendees were escorted from Parkman Bandstand by police and placed into police vehicles for their own safety. There were 40,000 counter-protestors (says Socialistalternative.org).
So what explains the hard left's obsession with the alt-right? Why does the NYT lavish more column inches per capita on white nationalists than to any other group in America except maybe the 0.1%? You'd think the Times was trying to talk up its stock in the alt-right.
Well, in a sense that is what it is doing. Ironically, the hard left and the alt-right are joined at the hip. The hard left knows that its own relevance depends on spooking you about the alt-right. They need a bogeyman to mobilize their useful idiots (and their cash).
Don't be an idiot.
15
Donald Trump ran on a far right nationalist platform. Steve Bannon was his right-hand man. Trump's biggest donors were Robert and Rebekah Mercer. Your attempt to trivialize the significance of the movement doesn't wash.
Who is the alt-left? Anyone who opposes the alt-right? Those who believe in the liberal ideals behind the Constitution?
14
SandraH.
Nonsense. Donald Trump did not run on a far-right platform. He ran on a populist platform, and he won because he attracted many working class voters who had previously voted Democratic and even for Obama.
1. He opposed cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid
2. He supported universal health care.
3. He opposed the Iraq War
4. He opposed TPP.
Nor has he governed as a far right President. He has stuck to some of his populist themes in defiance of Wall Street) like immigration and TPP. But on taxes and regulation he has behaved like a Chamber of Commerce Republican.
As George Packer noted, populism springs up on the left and the right, often mobilizing the same political base, and at times "as in the case of Father Coughlin and his Depression-era Social Justice Movement—it was hard to tell them apart."
6
This seems a narrow examination of Asian women White male relationships stereotypes designed ot drive home the preferred narratives of the author. The author could just as easily but with a less fulsome embrace from the NYT have examined all the highly accomplished, far from docile, East Asian females in professional fields like law, medicine finance and science who marry equally accomplished White males. Zuckerberg is just one example. BTW, on that point many Jewish women have been known to complain only half jokingly East Asian women are stealing all the eligible Jewish men. (There has also been much said on the similariites between Jewish and East Asian cultures with their shared focus on the family and education that make these couplings so prominent.) What you see in this other trend is hyper accomplished hyper competitive people marrying each other. In Silicon Valley this also tends to occur because East Asian women tend to graduate in computer and other hard sciences and quantitiative fields in far greater numbers than even more "priviileged" white women. Not surprisingly, men in these fields when looking towards life partners and potential parents find smart quantitatively skilled women as desirable partners. The fact East Asian women tend to be overrepresented as high achievers in these quantitative and scientific fields means males working in those fields will be more likely to encounter them and given the magic of proximity marry them -whatever makes people happy.
36
White supremacy is all about white male demand for power, whether they deserve it or not. It has nothing to do with genetic supremacy as one can see by this article. For if it were true that white people are genetically smarter, the fact that white women disdain them in both Europe and English speaking countries should be a sign that there is really something unattractive about these men.
After boring hours of listening to their gripes, it seems white men DO think Asian women are subservient. But. in general, American men unappealing to American women also go in search of foreign women who want green cards in order to find women who will cater to their misplaced, from an American woman's perspective, delusions of essential superiority. Trump is their poster boy.
11
It seems that it is win-win situation for those involved, no?
2
The argument is a simple modus ponens:
P1 People of color can't succeed in America because of racism
P2 Immigrants of color succeed in America
C1 People of color can succeed in America despite racism
Corollary: If you can't succeed in America then it is for reasons other than the color of your skin.
3
Your assertions might make you feel good, but you leave out other uncomfortable corollaries. And none of your premises can be considered absolute.
8
Thanks for taking the time to read and reply Mark - it is not designed to make anyone - including me - feel good.
It is designed to ask the question as to how immigrants of color [including many from Africa] who speak no english can go from boat people to Dr's in one generation while other languish in self pity for generation after generation and 100's of years.
3
This is great article exposing the hypocrisy of white nationalist who marry asian women (and the asian women who enable them because they seek white approval). Another interesting perspective to explore is of mixed-raced children who are born out of this racist, anti-feminist pairing. They often suffer psychologically because of it.
Perspective from a daughter: https://hapafeminism.tumblr.com/
Perspective from a son: https://longingfordeath.wordpress.com/
12
Wait. Stop. Asia is a huge continent. There's Central Asia and there's South Asia, You only speak of Asian girls as though only East Asians qualify to be Asians. No. The continent is very diverse and colorful...
16
So we have a sudden expectation that fascism is consistent and rational?
Good luck with that!
11
Maybe when we all marry across racial lines for a generation, we can be one giant happy race and not have these problems anymore.
17
Ying Wang, You are absolutely correct!
1
Let's be real here.
3
Asian cultural norms frowning upon "baby momma" drama featuring myriad "dads" (taboo stigma) undeniably attract white male paramours whether self labeling as Progressive/white Nationalists.
7
I'm a Waspy guy from Ct who was married to a Chinese from Malaysia for 15 years. For western single men who go to live and work in East Asia, it's certainly not about "systematic exploitation of everyone who wasn't white." For many years while I worked in East Asia, I observed the simple fact that about 80% of western expat bachelors (i.e., European or North American Caucasians) quickly preferred Asian women because the latter are far more beautiful, not at war with men but actually like men, open-minded, unencumbered with puritanical hangups, and a good many of them prefer western men because they assume the latter will treat them more as equals. Nobody cares about white supremacists as suitors; they are totally irrelevant fools no matter where they are in the world.
23
The phrase "not at war with men but actually like men" says it all. It illustrates the author's point that some men feel that Asian women are more docile than Western women. You're not contradicting the author's point but making it.
In which camp do you put Asian women who grow up as Americans?
18
You were married to a “Chinese”? Presumably a “far more beautiful” “Chinese”.
Golly, you can’t see how you confirm the essay’s point about fetishism and objectification ? What happened after 15 years; did she finally have enough?
23
People are physically attracted to whom they are physically attracted. How far are you willing to extend the word "fetish"?
5
A few points about a badly written piece:
An example of the white alt-right male-Asian wife coupling that was missed was Terry Nichols, co-conspirator with Timothy McVeigh in the Oklahoma City bombing, who had a Philipina wife.
BTW Who's Asian depends on where you are outside Asia. In the UK, the default image of "Asian" is someone from South Asia: India, Pakistan or Bangladesh. Americans tend to think of Asians as East Asians: Japan, China etc.
A final point is that these couplings, absent human trafficking, are mutually agreed on. I recently returned from a holiday in SE Asia where fellow guests at a hotel included two successful Asian twenty-something women, one from HongKong and one from Singapore, who spent quite a bit of time talking about their presumably white Canadian and English boyfriends. It cuts both ways.
17
I think you're missing the basis of the argument. Alt-right believes in white supremacy and white racial purity. So dating assumes an ideological mindset about Asian women. Liberals don't care about racial supremacy or purity so it's irrelevant.
10
Silly and simplistic trying to force a convenient narrative. It's not just alt-right that either harbor racist views or fetishes. The alt-right are obvious targets because their extremism and openness invite caricatures, but both racism and unfair categorization are a part of life.
7
This comment is not going to be liked, but "Asian" women bear some responsiblity for this stereotype.
Look around you the next time you are in public and count the number of Chinese/Japanese/Vietnamese/Korean women who have African American/dark skinned Hispanic/Indian male partners.
Asian women have always shown a marked preference for white men.
Unless you do not notice these things claiming "I don't see color when I see people", I assure you that you have more fingers on hand than the number of Asian female/non white male couples that you are likley to see.
43
ok, we all know the racists of the so called alt right hate black people, relatively few of whom are recent immigrants. in fact, most black Americans share a slave ancestry are actually only partly black.
and of course, the alts hate "Mexicans" which usually means any brown skinned people with a heritage from Spanish speaking places, aka poor economic migrants.
but, aside from the rather unseemly sexist aspect called out in the essay, what makes anyone think of Asians, or Asian Americans, as a model minority, when of course any group of sufficient size will have people representing many aspects of the human range, from saints to sinners? when they say Asians, are they really thinking of educated, well-to-do recent immigrants with strong familieswho arrive with enough money to buy a housem and open a business?
is it about the disaffected scrambling for society's crumbs?
IOW, if you dig a little deeper, is the right's racial prejudice really an economic issue under it all?
The Alt-Right's aptly names "Asian Fetish" comes as a surprise to me, although it would be hard to expect consistency from their ilk. What gets failed to mention in this otherwise fascinating essay, is that "Asian" is a very broad category, incorporating groups as diverse as Tajiks, Pakistanis, Tamils, Mongolians, Cambodians, etc. Do Alt-Right white men similarly fetishize South Asian Women from India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, etc.? I doubt it, but the diversity of "Asian types" deserves more recognition.
6
Actually, the "fever" is a two lane highway: 1) the white man "yellow fever" for Asian women, and 2) the Asian woman "white fever" for white men. Open you eyes and you'll see it everywhere in society, or check out Match.com where 99.9% of Asian women include a white man in their search criteria.
43
Well said, Ms Lim, and well framed. Really liked your next to last paragraph!
I’d just add that it can often be hard for people to parse out the differing, dancing, trajectories of different “ascending” minority groups over time. Assimilation/access/success/intermarriage....complicated, varying and different, even if larger patterns look similar, between Jewish, Catholic, Latino/a, African American and Asian groups. The term “Oreo” may sound like a corollary to the term “banana” - both refer to people acting more “white” on the inside than their skin color would suggest. But history and motivation are...so different.
You rightly shine a light on gender as yet another distinct layer to parse. And you rightly declare the minority individual’s right/need to be free from these distortions. I’d just underscore that your last point is so similar to Baldwin’s (and Lincoln’s among others) great observation.... that the real ill is in the soul, or the eye, (brain, mind, culture, moral intelligence) of the racist. That is the ill that this country continues to suffer, whose symptoms run in so many destructive ways. “Much progress has been made”, yes, but a dire, congenital condition is one that requires constant vigilance . Thank you again.
6
"Yellow fever" (always for Asian females of course) has been around for decades, if not centuries. However only the alt-Right have been able to maintain a cave-man mentality and been unable to evolve to a more modern, diversified view. This phenomenon is is simply another symptom of alt-Rt backwards thought.
3
"I have never fully extinguished the belief that racking up an impressive lineup of achievements is the only way to gain respect."
This doesn't apply to minorities only. This IS the American metric above all others. Accomplish and you're a winner. You can even run for and win the US presidency. Its all about what You can list you did.
7
The mention of culture was one point. 5000 BC and the Chinese were founding a civilization, in Northern Ireland we were covered in blue paint. Now to "alt right", in the US it seems to equate with far right but in Europe appears to be a group whom are adept at annoying rad feminists. Asian in US terms is Chinese, in Britain, it is Indian. Legacy of coca-colonialism.
A male friend of mine went to Thailand and said that meeting/dating Thai women was very easy. "Like shooting fish in a barrel." Good for men who aren't that attractive to women in the U.S. and even better for men who are more generally attractive. Apparently there are advantages for Asian women to date/marry 'white' men. Money and possibly a green card?
20
Richard Spencer is a nationalist not a white supremacist. Nationalists worry about the cultural decline of the USA while white supremacists concern themselves about racial issues. Ms. Kim makes a few good points but she misunderstands the far-right.
4
Richard Spencer identifies himself as a WHITE nationalist, or "identitarian" as opposed to a white supremacist. Supposedly the difference is that a white nationalist believes in preserving the purity of the white race and enforcing segregation between the races, while a white supremacist believes in white superiority.
I think the term white nationalist is just a euphemism to make racism more politically attractive.
10
I greatly appreciate Ms. Lim's article for demonstrating how important it is to take an intersectional approach to these issues. Race, gender, and economics (i.e. success culture) all intertwine here. We've got to understand that if we're going to tackle commonly held prejudices.
Also, thanks to Ms. Lim for being one of the few women in the press to speak out on this topic. We need more voices like hers--and from all Asians.
7
Asian girls/women are a fad that will go away. I read an article in the Time magazine in the seventies about Jewish women being beautiful. That was the time when they were becoming acceptable and popular in the media. It's similar with India-American women, who are technically Asian but the masses don't know that fact. Probably half the Indian-American girls born in this country have a inter-racial, interfaith, marriage. As an example, my daughter is married to a white Mormon man. These women generally marry liberal men and they themselves tend to be moderate or liberal.
Alt-right or liberal, let's not read too much into anyone's choice or fetish.
5
Your daughter married a white Mormon man, which I tend to doubt would be a moderate or liberal. Actually many conservative men like Asian immigrant women because they tend to have been raised to be quiet and submissive, due to the patriarchical society in many Asian countries. And there are many Asian women who marry to get away from an otherwise hard life. Actually, it's not just women from Asia. Look at Melania.
2
My best friend in high school had an older cousin who was in the navy. He married a lovely, smart asian girl and treated her like a servant. She told us that this was how she had been treated by her parents and brother at home and had no idea it was wrong. This lasted until he was rotated back to the states and he introduced her to his family. "Angel" learned how to speak up for herself, and that she had rights. She divorced the creep, took her share of his benefits and settled down to become an amazing, independent American woman.
39
"It legitimizes white America's power to determine what is "good"..." It is not within "white" America's power to determine what makes a just and healthy society. The simple fact is that there are OBJECTIVE personal characteristics that lead to success in life. If these characteristics happen to include being hard working, obedient, family oriented, and easily assimilated into a new society, all the better for those individuals with such qualities.
6
More evidence of the how corrosive identity politics necessarily becomes. For decades, well-intentioned progressives promoted a never-ending agenda focused on race and identity (and now sexual orientation). Now we are seeing the inevitable result: white identity politics in the form of Richard Spencer and his acolytes. And now their "Asian fetish" is just one more identitarian aspect.
Of course, most progressives would have us just keep the identity politics they like and jettison the types they find repulsive, like white-nationalists who fetishize Asians.
It doesn't work that way, my friends.
12
You've got it backwards. Progressives are simply trying to achieve equal status and opportunity for all. It's a response to white supremacists. And even if it were the cause, why do they hate the idea of equality?
5
Good point, Gene. The fight to extend rights enjoyed by all Americans to those who have previously been excluded is not identity politics. Just the opposite. It's an attempt at achieving the American ideal of equality for all.
2
Recently when speaking with a Japanese neighbor he referred to white people as Europeans. This really struck me. I refer to my neighbor as Japanese but not to my white friends as Europeans. It really turned my thinking around. We white people are Europeans!
7
Amy Chua in Tiger Mom book makes a comment that Jewish-Asian unions are common, especially in university towns. I have no statistics at hand to reference, but I’m guessing this type of union far outweighs the Asian-WhiteSupremecist union. Which makes me question why this article was even written and whether it states any valid point.
20
The article was written to expose the hypocrisy. White supremacist - Asian unions goes against the "white purity" agenda many white supremacist are advocating. They are just showing their hypocrisy.
11
This article is very valid. You say "Tiger Mom" indicates the commonality but so is the Asian women with a white male. If you have no statistics, then you can not guess that it far outweighs the latter.
1
My wife is Asian, I am white. I was looking for a nice girl, any race. There is nothing "Asian" about her. None of the myths apply. She is just a wonderful person and a great mom. There is nothing "compliant" about her, she kicks my tail frequently. The stereotypes are false in my experience.
21
Your experience is different and I'm sure there are others with quite the same experience as you but this is quite the norm. Next time you're out and about, be conscious of how many Asian women you see with a white guy. In and of itself there is nothing wrong with it but it does beg the question of how white nationalists can go around promoting the white race and how everyone else is inferior but Asian women are ok to stick with them? Hypocrisy at it's best.
4
I remember a study a few years back showing that trends in mixed-race coupledom could be largely explained by height - and the norm that men should be taller of their partners. In White-male, Asian-female partnerships it was typical that the male partner was shorter than the average for his race. Could it be that a kind of "short man syndrome" drives a lot of the alt-right appeal and their Asian woman fetish? I'd be curious to know the average height of alt-right/white supremacist males.
14
All dating websites noticed a preference bias in favor of their asian female users. And not just limited to whites: black and latino men also prefer asian women to women of other races (including their own). The only racial group that doesn't prefer asian women are asian men: they prefer latinas.
A simple explanation is this: asians generally are culturally and genetically less prone to obesity, that makes them more attractive than other races. As for the choice of asian men, it must be some kind of "fatigue" that makes them fed up with their own women's cultural traits.
6
It's often pointed out that race is a social construct. When we speak of Asians, as the author does here, who are we really speaking about? Isn't hers a specifically American social construct? Her definition is disturbingly confined to stereotypes of lighter skinned women of North East Asian descent. There are approximately 4.5 billion Asians in Asia; why are over 1.5 billion Asians living in the Indian subcontinent in countries like Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, excluded? Are they not Asian as well? Do they fail to fulfill a stereotype, despite being known for high achievement? It seems that based on what the author has written we need to delineate darker South Asians from lighter South Asians on the basis of race. Complicating matters further; didn't the Japanese who invaded China consider the Chinese to be a different race? Are the Ainu of Japan a race? It's foolish to say race has no biological element. Race does have a biological element because people like white supremacists have assigned it one. Race is no more dependent on skin color today than it was in 19th century America when the social and legal principle known as "the one-drop rule," a purported racial classification, was developed by white supremacists out of fear of what was called "invisible blackness." "Race," as note by the great historian Nell Irvin Painter, "is an idea, not a fact." Race doesn't need biology; it just needs some powerful white guys looking for a reason for it to exist.
12
This analysis is fine so far as it goes. But I have no idea how the author managed to ignore anime--which plays more of a role in the alt-right's Asian fetish than any single other factor. 4chan gave birth to the alt-right, and 4chan also began life as an anime board. This key omission lowered this piece's credibility for me by a great lot.
The other thing this article fails to address is that, from my observation, the alt-right's admiration for Asians has less to do with the behavior of Asian immigrant communities than it does with, say, Japanese xenophobia. Japan is widely held up as a model for a successful ethnonationalist state for its refusal to import migrant workers or allow immigration on a mass scale.
17
"...It exists at the intersection of two popular racial myths. First is the idea of the “model minority,” in which Asian-Americans are painted as all hard-working, high-achieving and sufficiently well-behaved to assimilate..."
A myth is a widely held belief that isn't true. What exactly is untrue about the above statement? Asians have come here from the other side of the world, with a different physical appearance, different language, different cultural system, and have done astonishingly well in America. They name their kids "Tom" and "Lisa" (to assimilate) and they get to work.
Unfortunately, in this era of the victimhood olympics, being recognized for positive cultural attributes is an insult
14
Max, please read the article. When my grandparents came to this country, Asians were as reviled as African Americans. The stereotype of the high-achieving Asian American dates from the mid-twentieth century. The author points out that this stereotype was created to reinforce the false notion that there are real differences between "races," thus reinforcing racism.
4
I find it comical that many of the commenters deriding and denouncing the alt-right are themselves making stereotypical/racist comments about Asians.
Reminds me of a friend (well not really, anymore) who told me a story about how the proprietor of a local store used to flirt with her and when I asked her if she reciprocated, she responded dismissively and with an air of ridicule, "No, he was Asian!" This from a woman who is a proud liberal Dem and never passes up the chance to wring her hands about how others abuse her because she is Jewish.
It's easy to get caught up with only our own experiences and not see that hypocrisy exists on all sides. Things aren't always so, well, black and white.
19
Which means she is West Asian. Look at a map.
1. The guys are usually over 50.
2. Women are 20 plus years younger.
3. Not just "Asian", but also Eastern European (like Trump) and other races also.
24
And in the end, none of it matters one iota.
5
The irony of this article is that the author's own perspective on Asian Americans seems equally disrespectful. While the Asian fetish thing is both real and creepy, the author seems to believe that the Asian woman has no agency to select her own romantic partner from a varied pool of races, ethnicities, and cultures. In short, she assumes that the Asian woman is exactly the same quiet submissive woman that white supremacists are fetishizing.
Although that may be her own truth, that fall far short of being an accurate or well rounded depiction of the Asians I've met. I'd also argue that, based on my own social circles, there are plenty of Asian women who seem to exclusively or at least primarily date white men - not from a lack of interested or eligible suitors from other cultural backgrounds but out of personal preference.
Similarly, the idea that Asian American communities are successful because of some effort to market themselves as hardworking and family oriented belies the real numbers. On a per capita basis, Asians out earn every other race in America - including whites. Perhaps, Asians have succeeded not because of racism but in spite of it.
23
What this overlooks is the plain old biological factor: most Asians, male and female, and particularly southeast Asians, are generally shorter, smaller, more delicate looking, even in their facial features, than whites or blacks.
As a result, the women are the most stereotypically feminine in the world, while the men are the most stereotypically non-masculine. The women are thus universally sexually attractive, and the men, universally less so.
I am a white woman, btw, who has traveled a lot in Asia, because I love it. The food, the culture, the temples, the architecture...and the people! I find the people, both male and female, beautiful.
I often wonder about how the selection pressures were so different from ours so as to produce such elegant, graceful, strong but delicate people.
We speak of women here on a scale of 1 to 10, with 9s and 10s being rare, because beautiful women are in fact rare, not "average", but in Asia it seems almost every woman is at least an 8, with anything below being very rare...That's just reality, like it or not. I don't blame men for being attracted to those lovely women.
I find the men attractive too, maybe because I don't care for hyper masculinity, but it seems I am an exception. But I notice Asian men, Indian men in particular, brought up in America are usually taller, bigger, and more muscular than the scrawny native Indians, so diet must have a lot to do with it.
13
Only North Americans dismiss the idea of cultural differences in the name of extreme individualism, made easier by the unique cultural mixing of an immigrant society in a huge country with one common language.
Everyone else is well aware that those exist, and good-naturedly joke about it. Living in Europe for example, one can't help but be aware of the differences when one crosses what once were national borders: the language changes, the food, and the "national character".
Go to Youtube and have a look at all the videos about What Germans are like, The difference between Swedes and Norwegians, How you know you're dating an Italian, a Spaniard, a German, etc.....
Nothing wrong with recognizing cultural diversity. The issue is what to do about it. Condemning all individuals of a particular culture as evil or inferior because of some aspects one doesn't approve of, for example.
8
It's interesting, if not particularly surprising, that for some or many of those in the alt-right, a fear/loathing of independent women is the one thing that can (occasionally, selectively) override the racist assumptions that otherwise govern their world view. (It is of course substituting one racist assumption for another, but in the alt-right cosmos, contradictory stereotypes can always be accommodated by positing another epicycle).
5
Curious. It probably helps bolster that "I'm not prejudice but... " notion. I think "the Beatles" somehow fit somewhere in this puzzle too.
But I notice somewhat subtly within this piece that the "fetish" does not appear to inspire dialog. This is not about people particularly interested in understanding Asian ways of thinking, reaching out across the vast ocean of differences, or sharing the best that each culture has to offer and discarding the bad things of each. It seems to reflect mostly about how Asians (or some Asian women at least) can find a way to be accepted into the mainstream tribe.
I understand what Ms Lim is saying, we all wanted to be accepted in that K-12, and even us stranger white kids had trouble with that. There might be genuine exceptions, but most of us, were we to have our wishes fulfilled in K-12, would have wanted to be accepted by the mainstream. Moreover, even the Asians she avoided are a group too, even if it is not the mainstream tribe. Peer pressure and the social networks are a human dilemma; the loner is the toughest place to be at that age.
My point is only to marvel at the incuriousness and ignorance of the people who talk of Asians and the fact that Asians who become accepted within this milieu must suppress so much of their own identity to join it. With culture, there is always an understandable hegemony that makes it difficult to find a way to coexist, but exchange is one way we become better.
3
Yellow Fever hardly extends exclusively to alt-right men. I've noticed right-leaning men in general tend to gravitate towards Asian women (Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConell and Fox News creator Rupert Murdoch are both married or were married to Asian women at some point). As this piece alludes to, this is most likely due to conservatives' long-held belief that women should be delegated to the submissive childbearer role; a role Asian women appear to fit to them. Of course, if these men actually met many Asian women -- especially Asian-American women -- they would know that most of them are anything but the delicate little flowers they fantasize about.
9
These "submissive" women tend to either have been born in an Asian country or been first-generation American born, so were still culturally tied to Asia. In subsequent generations Asian American women are much more likely to be assertive, vocal and ambitious.
2
Alt-right white supremacists do not accept that non-whites can become white. The insistence that it’s all about racial biology is what distinguishes their racism from the more common racism of structural white supremacy.
Rather than accepting “model minorities” as equals, these racists see them as house slaves: capable of more skilled labor than other non-whites, but in need of white masters to show them the way. The model here is colonialism, not melting pot integration.
10
Recently read a novel be Celeste Ng called Little Fires Everywhere. Fascinating. It must stink to always be considered the race close to white, but not, but easily malleable. Imagine how American Asian men feel?
7
This is colonization 101. Read Edward Said's ORIENTALISM. It is the power of the colonizer to project onto the body of the Other. Asian women are objectified as hypersexualized, subservient, a trophy for white masculinity. This dynamic is toxic and stems from America's wars in Asia (China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand). White men saving brown (or yellow) women from their own men.
16
The world is funny. There are many orthodox Jewish families in our neighborhood here. A fair number of the men have wives who are ethnically East Asian. Whether they are Asian-American or from East Asia I don't know. Probably the latter.
The misogyny of the white racist alt-right movement is well known. They believe women should stay home and make babies. In other words, women of all races should be subservient to these men whose insecurities are transparent.
East Asians have been given a place in the alt-right Republican ecosphere, which has told them roughly the same thing that it has told working class and middle class whites. The least of them is better than the best of the others.
Ms. Lim and other young Asian-Americans should reject this. As an insider, I know that some East Asians have fallen for it. They do believe they are better than the others. This is comparable to the racism of the alt-right.
The high-achiever stereotype isn't even altogether correct. Studies show, for instance, that East Asian families on average provide proportionally more resources to each generation's high achievers (a minority) but proportionally less to everybody else (the majority).
In general, the stereotype is destructive for young Asian-Americans. Say, for instance, you are an Asian-American young person and want to study musical theatre. Yes, such a major would help them get into Harvard. On average, however, it will just make that young person's life very difficult.
4
you are just like Amy Tan - with just the tiny change of her characters' names and a menu here and there, they could all be Jewish.
It is more far-reaching that just the Alt-right. There is a segment of Western male who fantasizes about the stereotype docile, accommodating (non feminist) Asian female. It isn't difficult to ferret out websites devoted exclusively to travel excursions for American males to Asia looking for playtime or a wife, (the current hot-spot, Vietnam). Historically,Black females have also faced an objectifying stereotype; the forbidden fruit (during slavery and still today) while simultaneously being loathed for their perceived lack of docility.
Audrea Lim raises legitimate issues.
12
Another stereotype that White people often have of Asians (both female and male) is that they make very good workers, in that they perform their jobs diligently without any dissent. In other words, they're the next best thing to robots. I hope Asians try to dispel this harmful myth as well.
19
This article tries to undermine two factual realities:
(1) Asians, as a group, are extremely successful due to all the qualities that come along with the "model minority" myth. Sometimes myths are true. While there is an oppressive aspect to this, until we actually get to a post-racial/ethnic society, it's not that bad. But, critically, at the level of the individual none of this matters.
(2) Asian women are frankly on average found to be attractive to many men, regardless race. It's just a brute fact to subjective experience. If neo-Nazis need to rationalize their attraction to them, that's only showing at a visceral level their ideas are full of hypocrisy. But, critically, at the level of the individual none of this matters.
Both the far left and far far right benefit from treating individuals foremost as identity group members. When individual persons are not treated foremost as ends in themselves, you get this whole cycle of self-reinforcing narratives of oppressors/oppressed and so on from which people garner a perverse meaning in life, that allow such people to excuse their own individual failures on to large forces.
17
This theory of Alt-Right's taste for Asian women does not explain the fact that there are more white male - Asian female combo in liberal SF than anywhere else. It's not the white supremacy; it's just that some white males find it easier to date Asian females than more independent and demanding White counter parts, tho the epic flooding of Asian porn in this era of Internet may also have something to do with it.
If anything, the white supremacy is practiced by Asian females, or Asians in general. You don't believe me, just look at the streets of Seoul. They are full of English signs and commercial images of white people. It's practically an American colony.
27
Men all over the world prefer Asian women--I noticed this among Arab men too while I was in Dubai--because they're the most strikingly beautiful and they like men.
5
I am an Asian-American woman who is dating a white guy. It usually does not bother us but I do wish people would stop assuming we're together either because he prefers less independent/ demanding women (this is laughable as I'm hardly the shrinking flower; your name suggests you are Asian but I really do wonder how many women you know if you think we are more submissive) or that I prefer white guys in general (I don't). Like most couples, we're together for many other reasons and ethnicity did not play a role.
In fact, I would not mind dating an Asian man. But in my 4+ decades, I've rarely been shown interest by them - despite joining a few Asian-American-oriented groups -- and have been only asked out by 3, all of whom I went out with a few times. A 4th man I asked out myself and another I turned down because he was 10 years younger than me. This is what I tell the men who complain to me that Asian-American women "won't date" them. Perhaps you're not asking enough or the right women.
Contrary to your stereotypes, my brother dates white women (and Asian women and Latinas). He doesn't let society dictate who he is and who he loves: he just asks out women who attract his attention and they say "Yes" or "No."
6
Yes, it is curious that white supremisists put Asians on a pedestal—although Asians are not white and look very different. Sort of like Hitler and the Aryan race. He was not one of them and certainly looked nothing like them.
5
That's about as strange as a Trump bumper sticker on a Prius.
8
3. A 'fetish' is a small charm one carries. The term you're looking for is 'sexual [or simply aesthetic] fixation'.
2. 'Yellow Fever' refers to the attraction to East Asian men as well as women, as my hard drive knows all too well.
2
Perhaps western white and Asian women were not interested in these men therefore they went on Cherry Blossoms or some other Asian women website to find a bride. These women are mainly desperate to leave their poor countries or situation. Poverty is a strong aphrodisiac.
9
Another take is to simply respect the individuals, or even the groups or communities as a whole - that recognize a well educated human brain is of utmost importance. To encourage their children to engage in meaningful study, to pursue science, math and technology, to be polite, to give respect to their teachers - isn't this the game plan for success in a meritocracy? The white supremacist males will have no chance with the vast majority of Asian women.
3
Liking Asian women more than say, white women, is no different from liking blondes over brunettes. It's a preference. Not a disease.
There is far more at issue with the alt-right than their choice of women. To promote the unfairness of yellow fever under the guise of hypocrisy does nothing to settle the nerves of those wondering why her and not me?
10
White Supremacist's idiocy exposed...by a once pliant supporter ( an Asian woman) of the illusion of 'belonging'...instead of being exploited by a gang of inflated egos, based on the color of their skin and the accidental geography and culture that, per chance, saw them being born into. Ignorance, of which some folks seem so proud of, breeds arrogance...and it's attendant bigotry. Ethnic discrimination, if not outright 'racism', is an odious climate of resentment foreign to reason, deeply emotional, and only self-serving to seek entitlement where none exists. And seeking relevance in all the wrong places is a very sad state of affairs, when love (potentially) is replaced by hate, where division trumps inclusion and strength. At the end, we forget we all came out of Africa, and our current differences are a byproduct of circumstances and environment, as humans were able to adapt, survive and thrive, tribal and nomadic at first, and then, some 12,000 years ago, diversified our talents when agriculture allowed some permanence of site, worldwide. We are social animals dependent on each other, our fulfillment and joy in life driven by the 'golden rule'. Altering this wisdom would be foolish indeed. And our tribal attitude of "Us vs Them" a dangerous game better left to rot, a false nostalgia of a past plagued by outright slavery and exploitation. We human are better than to persist in the bullying of others; and if it's foolish determinant is the color of our skin, shame on us!
3
The use of the word "Asian" to refer only to EAST Asians is in itself a form of cultural imperialism and racism.
17
That fetish is real. The personals ads here in the philippines are full of white guys in their 50s and 60s, divorced, and looking for young, exotic, submissive, docile filipinas who will take care of their "needs" and always put them first. The young women who do respond to these ads are the ones seeking a better life for themselves and their families by marrying someone who can bring them to the US. They say American women are lazy, and too full of themselves.
I absolutely hate it when i talk to a foreigner online and they expect me to fit that mold. They have yet to realize that the feminist movment has arrived here as well.
68
Well, isn't this a definition of win-win relationship? One have what the other want.
What I don’t understand is what is never discussed in this article: why Asian or Asian American women date, marry, or generally waste any time with white nationalist men. What is the nature of *their attraction to or acceptance of this revolting ideology?
31
I don't think it really has anything to do with racist white ideology. It has to do with the fact that there is no shortage of Asian women in America who worship at the altar of the white man. If anything, there is more of a white fetishism among Asian women than the other way around.
11
It seems to me that there is plenty of old fashioned Identity politics (a/k/a racism) in this article.
Whites are like this,
Asians are like that,
and blacks are very different from both groups.
16
Is anybody as bored with the phrase "identity politics" as I am?
5
Exactly the opposite. The column is a thoughtful argument against stereotyping.
I married an Asian woman, Filipina. We have been married 27 years now and have three children together. We live where I grew up in Michigan's white suburbs. I've seen discrimination against my wife, and against my boys, and to a far lesser extent against my girl (as our author notes). I've intervened too, and seen a sudden radical change of behavior when I appear, before I've said a word. I've given this a lot of thought, based on long experience.
I am disappointed in the people I grew up with. I'm not exactly surprised, but I'd hoped for much better.
Still, the discrimination is very different from that experienced by black people, including black friends of mine who have discussed it, and my wife and kids have commented on that difference too.
Why? Antipathy to blacks. It is as simple as that. Very many people just don't like blacks, on a visceral level that does not apply to anyone else.
Older family members have told me that was once true of Jews too. "To Jew" was a verb, and it was always a very bad thing. Nobody else was a verb. Remarkably, I have not heard that in a long time, but people do still know what it means, my kids tell me. The dislike has melted away, proving it can happen.
My conclusion is that we must focus on the dislike, very directly, to understand it, face it, and overcome it. That is done one individual at a time, and becomes more general with accumulating numbers known on a personal level. I've seen that work, even with (most) hard cases.
104
I've disagreed with you on just about everything. But not this time.
2
I'm Jewish and I can tell you the dislike has not 'melted away' as my kids can readily attest to. You just don't hear it anymore.
3
I've disagreed with you on just about everything and expect that I will again.
But not this time,
3
Do East Asian women know this is going on?
Do they agree with it?
Are they "simply" complicit?
If so, why?
And if so, how long will they go along with this?
13
Poverty is a strong aphrodisiac for Asian wannabe brides.
8
It is also worth noting that Charles Murray, co-author of "the Bell Curve", has an Asian wife, and recently cited this as proof that he isn't a racist.
12
In Silicon Valley it is very common and even trendy for white techie guys to have Asian girlfriends or wives.
13
Mitch McConnell is married to Elaine Chou, for what it's worth.
Asian women happen to be very beautiful.
5
Spare me. Asian women are no more beautiful than any other women.
14
1. 'Asians' Do not consist of the Japanese, the Chinese, the Philippine the Viet Namese and the Koreans. 'Asians' consist of those plus the
Afghans,
Bahrainis,
Bangladeshis,
Bhutanese,
Bruneians,
Burmese,
Cambodians,
East Timorese,
Emiratis,
Indians,
Indonesians,
Iranians,
Iraqis
Jews,
Jordanians,
Kazakhs,
Kuwaitis,
Kyrgyzstanis,
Laosians,
Lebanese,
Malaysians,
Maldivians,
Mongols,
Nepalese,
Omanis,
Pakistanis,
Qataris,
Russians,
Saudis,
Singaporese,
Sri Lankans,
Syrians,
Tajikistanis,
Turks,
Turkmenistanis,
Uzbeks,
and
Yemenis.
26
"Asian" (adj.) a broad, mostly useless term, even when constricted to its geographical meaning. Still, a popular term that we still have to grapple with in coversations about race, history, culture, gender and ethnicity.
1
The term "Asian" is in fact a Western social construction, arising through many processes though surely in large part centuries of colonialism. What links Indians and the Japanese, for instance? One can point to Buddhism, but then we might as well just act as all Christians everywhere are from the same civilization. I do think it would be interesting to consider how South Asians fair in the positioning in the U.S. this author describes - they seem ambiguously perceived as model minorities yet also perhaps lower than East Asians is because they are perceived as having darker skin. The whole system stinks, and I am sorry that we have created this shaded hierarchy (and universalizing concepts like "Asian") out of ignorance.
2
Most of these would be considered "Central Asian," "South Asian" or "Middle Eastern." Like it or not, China, Korea, and Japan are "Asian" in the mainstream lexicon, just like the U.S. is considered "America," despite the fact that other countries are also part of North and South America but are not considered "American."
5
I observe Caucasian U.S. men arriving in China with yellow fever stereotypes of Asian women promptly getting their derrieres kicked by young Chinese women who are accustomed to controlling their relationships in a buyers' market where there are 30 millions surplus men between the ages of 18 - 35.
There has never been an adequate translation for 'macho man' in Chinese.
9
Those white guys are probably going to Shanghai or Beijing, or one of the other big cities in China, where the women are more educated and in professional positions and can be more selective. But I agree that there is more competition due to the surplus of men in China, who are going to other Asian countries like Vietnam to search for Asian wives. Sadly, there are many poor, disadvantaged families who would be fine with having their daughters marry a white American guy so that they could have one less mouth to feed and get remittances when she moves to the US.
3
I think it’s pretty gross to want to be with someone because you perceive them as “weak” quiet and manipulatable. Just gross. These white supremacists know thier lust is based on their little power trips. It’s just pathetic. And this is exactly why they don’t want to date white women like me.
24
Exactly. I know a successful good looking man from Waco Texas. He dated many white women but it never worked out because he's clearly a misogynist with his own ideas of how women should behave. They eventually all broke up with him.
He married a Vietnamese woman who changed her name to Wendy, became a Christian like him and started having his babies even though he's at least 20 years older. Apparently living in America for some is worth any cost.
10
Oh my! This so reminds me of poor Dr. Kim and John FLory in "Burmese Days" by Aldous Huxley.
One of Flory's broken fantasy's of life as a sahib in the forest products trade in Burma in the 20's included his not uncommon relationship with a local girl who acted as his housemaid, personal slave and concubine. In the end, before he takes his own life he has been disappointed by his relationships with everyone among both the local population-who see service in a Briitish man's house as a source of vast wealth and status.
All of these Alt Right lovers of Asian women might do well to rad Huxley's classic of racial politics among the British Raj in Burma between the wars.
I suppose that's asking a bit much, though .
In an era of of arguments over Artificial intelligence where most of the world are plugged into telephones most of the time. Perhaps a better read for all would be "1984" or, perhaps it's too late for any of that. . . .
6
Forgive my pedantry, but isn't George Orwell the author of whom you are thinking?
3
When I was a student at Columbia Business School back in 1990, one of the common complaints from East Asian men was that white men were seducing all of their East Asian women and they didn’t stand a chance! Ms. Lim’s lament about the alt-right’s Asian fetish is actually a widespread condition that has infected a good proportion of the white race ever since the U.S. opened up its immigration system in the mid-1960s to people beyond Europe.
While the model-minority is largely true in first generation immigrants, the myth ironically gets fractured as assimilation increases. Nonetheless, there is some truth in Ms. Lim’s assertion, “Asian women are seen as naturally inclined to serve men sexually and are also thought of as slim, light-skinned and small, in adherence to Western norms of femininity.” It is kind of what Jerry Hall, Mick Jagger’s wife, had famously said, “to keep a man, you must be a maid in the living room, a cook in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom.”
Ms. Lim shouldn’t be surprised – the Asian fetish is not limited to the alt-right, it is quite pervasive among American men of all stripes, especially among those on their second and third marriages.
P.S. Resubmiited a second time after waiting 24 hours! What is the problem - the truth from an Asian?
24
Um... because it's not the truth. I love how this conversation is all about white men somehow interring these poor, hapless Asian women into a lifetime of servitude for their white master. There is even more of a white fetish among Asian women. NY Times, you buried the lede yet again!
9
Did you read my last statement, "...it is quite pervasive among American men of all stripes, especially among those on their second and third marriages." There was no mention of race!
3
"Still, I have never fully extinguished the belief that racking up an impressive lineup of achievements is the only way to gain respect."
Though quite vacuous, the belief you are trying to extinguish is the core of the American raison d'être: work, work, work. Asian culture (in much, not all, of eastern Asia) seems to be well-connected to absolute conformity to authority. I.e., good immigrant work-work-workers.
It takes more than one generation for an immigrant family to embrace the other American vapidity: individualism.
6
Appreciate the article and connecting the dots on how cultural stereotypes create oppressive conditions. Most Americans understanding of other cultures is through a very narrow America first lens. So many learned stereotypes came from images of the movie and TV screens. In America, the histories of American Indians and Black Americans have been suppressed and replaced most often with cultural stereotypes held true by many Americans.
4
Point of prejudice understood! Article caught my attention because sometimes it works both ways.
My Asian American female friend and I were recently at our favorite Sushi restaurant [owned by Chinese American man]. Out of no where he loudly noted the 'types' of patrons in his establishment. His comment about us: over there we have 'father & daughter'! We were stunned.
Firstly we're both over 50. But as I stewed over the insult ... I felt it went deeper. He was making the assumption I was a white guy ... dating the younger Asian woman. So it appears he's willing to denigrate an Asian woman's freedom to choose a companion & imply I was prying on the stereotype. Who knew?
8
It sure is creepy being stereotyped isn't it?
2
Yes ... SHE was quite creeped out!
2
I married a Japanese girl 35 ago after being captivated by their culture during my Viet Nam experience. She came here in 1970, the same year I went to VN. Our paths crossed 10 years later at the San Jose Museum during an art opening for a mutual friend. The daughter of Samurai and Shinto, never subservient, always a battle for who was on top, always expecting me to give in and let her be dominate. Why? Because females in most Asian countries rule the roost. They teach their children from birth who's the boss and their father's who have been so educated from infancy, that the path to marital bliss is to cede control to a wise wife. It doesn't happen all of sudden, first she gains the confidence of her husband by words and deeds and then he happily, eagerly, cedes control. One will know he has reached that state when you he utters the two magical words he has learned from birth, learned from his Mother, Grandmother, Aunties and older Sisters, those words are "Yes Dear."
16
Ms. Lim it took courage to write this article. America has a racial hierarchy that is somewhat elastic and here "White" need not mean "European" necessarily. Not long ago, the Irish and Italians were not "White" but over time they along with Jewish people have received the brass ring of "Whiteness." The next ethnic group waiting to receive this status are Asians for all those misconceived notions you lay out. Here it is important to examine the role Asians themselves play in playing into these stereotypes because of the benefits. It's no dirty secret that Asians hold some disturbing views on ethnicities they perceive to be below them in this hierarchy not to mention skin color/tone fetish is practically codified in Asian societies. You talk of the "perceived" pliability of Asian women but fail to aks how much of that is simply true and not just "perceived." Asian women have a path to "acceptance" as you yourself said you had, and many take it. Also, its important to note that you write about Asian women and not men. They don't appear to have the path to acceptance that is open to women beacause of their won troublesome stereotypes. I live in a community where mixed Asian-White couples are common. In my own anectodtal observance 90% of the time it is the woman that is Asian in these relationships and this lopsidedness is openly discussed as yet another example of "white privilege."
7
what does "I have acted out in all manner of ways to dispel the “model minority” image" even mean? It is now a thing to avoid "racking up an impressive lineup of achievements"?
Sheesh.
11
In a recent study (a few years ago), men of widely varying ethnicity were asked to rate women of various ethnicity on their attractiveness.
Obviously this was using stereotype thinking.
The majority of males in all ethnicities but one chose East Asian women as the most attractive - the one that did not was, of course, East Asian men. (The preference for East Asian women was known as "the China doll syndrome" back in the 70's.)
I think this stereotypical choice is due to the pedomorphic characteristics more prominent among East Asians, both men and women, though more pronounced in women. We are all attracted to children.
My guess about the white supremacists is that they are as susceptible to China doll syndrome as their less weird peers, and they are working a mythology into their racist ideas to support their visceral preference.
There is no question that the East Asians are held up as a 'model minority' and have been for a long time. The old 'busing wars' of Boston made that clear - when one particular ethnic group was matched up in busing with East Asians, they immediately dropped all objections to busing. This was quite a few decades ago.
It's worth noting, as you do, that a bit of feminism would free East Asian women from some of this junk. It wold be freeing for the men, too.
Thanks for this article.
10
They like the obedient and subservient part the best. A woman that doesn’t talk to much or ask for too much. It is all a fantasy - not reality. Watch a few episodes of 90 day Fiancé. Those girls are not any of that - which is fine by me because this fantasy needs a good routing.
6
I understand nothing about Alt-right thinking or psychology. I most certainly have observed that the high achievers in our educational system are of Asian ancestry far out of proportion to their percentage of the population. I take that to be largely because vocational opportunity here has attracted a fair number of better educated and more ambitious Asian parents. Having spent time in much of Asia, my impression is that on the whole folks there are no brighter or harder working than people anywhere else. For the moment at least, we seem to have an advantage in the brain drain. Fine, I say. Intermarriage may enrich our gene pool. It could use it.
8
Thanks for this article. Growing up in the indie scene in Michigan, I saw how other Asian Ams like me were trying to reconcile the contradictions of our racialization through the music and art scenes. Only years later did I realize a lot of bands and writers were trying to think about these things too, and nobody had easy answers. In the end, the model minorities myth isn’t about Asians, but about promoting a genteel version of slavery and colonialism under the pretext of permanent tutelage. As th Leonard Cohen song goes, o teacher are my lessons done / I cannot learn another one / they laughed and laughed and said, well, child / are your lessons done?
8
The above comment (J-head): "In the end, the model minorities myth isn’t about Asians, but about promoting a genteel version of slavery and colonialism under the pretext of permanent tutelage." -- very well-said. Related to this, it's more than high time that Asian women (I am one of them) examine/question themselves, including their own extreme racial biases, think beyond playing up whatever stereotypes/dehumanizing and archaic myths for personal gains, to embrace such values as feminism, solidarity and social justice -- signature values of any civilized culture.
3
I am an American of Indian origin. I am married to an American whose parents migrated from Israel. Both of us are statisticians by training and profession.
Recently at talk that she gave to a firm, my wife mentioned in passing that her husband was an Asian. Later a man told her something along these lines "I am sorry that I referred to 'Soo Resh' (Suresh) as your husband at the dinner last week. I thought you were married."
My wife was quite puzzled and said "yes, I am married to Suresh."
The man said "but he is not Asian, he is an Indian. Asians are like you know more like Asians. You know what I mean?" Yes, we all know what he means.
There is no unifying Asian identity for Asians. People from Kazakhstan, Sri Lanka, India, Japan and Thailand are all Asians. But in the American mind "Asians" look Chinese.
When I was doing my PhD - in an Ivey League school - I was a TA for some stats courses. One kid (from Arlington, TX) came to see me during my office hours. He needed help and I spent extra time with him, well past my office hours. He thanked me and said "All my good TAs are Asians. When I saw you I was worried, cause you are not Asian and like you will not be helpful. But you are a real good guy and I will tell the Prof. that you were very helpful."
I said "But I am Asian". He laughed and said "no dood, you are Indian. Not Asian. But you are really good guy. But Asians are like (lowered voice), Chinky. You know what I mean?"
I know what he meant.
-SK
125
Your students comments horrify me - but they don’t surprise me
Hopefully he was enlightened in your class.
9
I doubt it, at least not directly -- he mentions that he's a statistician. But with any luck, that same student will have been required to take at least some courses touching on anthropology, sociology, and history. Let's hope so, at least for the sake of any future colleagues.
2
What a loser. Was he in a frat?
4
Something very comparable to what the author is talking about takes place between white racists and black women.
Although white racists deplore and disparage blacks and black women, at the end of day, when the lights dimmed on the old plantations, the white master often sought out and used black women.
Don't we all remember the discovery that the arch white supremacist, Senator Strom Thurmond of South Carolina (In 1948, when the Dem Party endorsed a civil rights plank, Thurmond walked out of the convention and ran for President of the newly minted "States Rights" party) had a black daughter.
But one needn't be attentive to national politics to be aware of this sort of thing. Just think of one of the most gutsy, rowdy rock n roll songs of all time, "Brown Sugar," and it's lyrics "Drums beating cold, English blood runs hot, Lady of the House is wondering where it's gonna stop...Brown Sugar, how come you taste so good."
11
@David G - "...the white master often sought out and used black women."
Where's the choice? Those female slaves had no choice in their being raped.
Raping a lesser being didn't twist up the ideology of slave owners. Pretty sure only but a few of them ever changed their racist beliefs, based on their victims acting as if they liked their masters. (Hostage Syndrome)
Seeking what they (white Supremacists) believe are a complacent, eager to please, and hypersexed bed mate, also feeds into their prejudices. It feeds into their superiority complex. "I'm a white male, of course these lesser females will want me...I am the best of the male bunch."
Then there's the masking effects of having an Asian GF. "Hey I date an Asian, so Im not a racist!"
No one can truly understand what these racist miscreants are thinking, other then their misguided beliefs of superiority...
9
As a black woman, I've never been hit on more than by white men, especially in the south. At redlights, in passing cars, in classes I was taking, with their wives in the same room.
During most of my working life, I worked mostly with white males. I'd once dated this white guy and many of us were staying in a hotel on business. I'm having a drink with my white male friends when my boyfriend shows up and we left to go back to my room.
The look on their faces. The same look, I'd seen often. A mix of envy (you lucky dog!), longing, curiosity, fantasizing.
We had a receptionist - a black woman, very, very dark, small, cute, poised, well-spoken, with delicate features. The white guys were going nuts. One (a Jewish guy who later married her) asked my boyfriend what it was like dating a black woman. I won't tell you the answer he gave.
Bottom-line, women are fetishized all the time. She just has to have an "exotic" look, whether she a light-skinned "mulatto looking", long-haired black woman (me), a blacked-skinned, tiny, small featured black woman, or a little Asian woman.
From my anecdotal observations over a lifetime (and through conversations with men who like Asian women and with Asian men), small Asian women make men fill physically and sexually stronger, and the envy of other men. Asian women play along to go along and use it to their advantage. There's no stigma, as a whole, to being married to a white male.
9
The problem left wing ideology in the U.S. faces with respect to the Alt-Right in the U.S.?
The problem, without getting bogged down in detail, and just stating essential overview is this: Left wing ideology is premised on nurture over human nature, that human nature can be stated as all races, ethnic groups, the sexes are identical in ability and that seeming differences can be overcome by nurture. This of course is mixed with socialistic economic leanings.
The Alt Right is seriously problematic because for all attempts to locate it as being identical to simplistic racism, nationalism, sexism of the past (and admittedly much of it is identical to such of the past), much of it, many of its adherents profess, a more sophisticated view based on commonplace observation. Which is to say anyone can observe the great success of the Jewish people, Asian people, Caucasian civilization, and much of the Alt Right has no problem with intermarriage, interrelationship along a "successful people" line.
It's really a problem to accuse people along simplistic racial, ethnic, prejudice lines when the U.S. is allied with Israel, has strong connections to Asian countries, etc. and is not so strongly invested in other racial, ethnic, cultural areas. In short, for all left wing ideology in the U.S. the nation as a whole appears to operate along quite selective lines which puts a big question mark to the whole left wing enterprise.
We face an intersection of biology, culture, ideals.
6
Daniel 12, Time to get out of your Washington DC bubble. Suggest you start by checking some geography books to see where the Caucasus in and note that the true Caucasians are Georgians (the country, not the state), Chechens, Abkahs, Circassians, etc. Many of the most successful doctors and, yes, heads of major corporations in the US and other countries today are Muslims and Hindus and Sikhs from India, Pakistan etc. The new head of Uber is from Iran. Walk around the Microsoft campus in Redmond, Washington and you will see many people from western and central Asia. So Alt-right people are not just choosing to associate with the intelligent among us as you seem to suggest. In fact I would posit that it takes a certain amount of intellectual blindness to be part of the Alt-right.
3
I agreed in some ways.....
The beginning of such interests in Asian women begun with “Tiger Mom” for those who wanted to marry and have kids like Tiger Mom’s kids.
The Tiger Mom Amy Chua is a John M. Duff Jr. Professor of Law at Yale Law School
Or maybe he needs to step out of the alt-right bubble.
Even though I chose not to read the essay, because the expression of ethnic prejudices is too hurtful to me, I am grateful for the comments in helping me understand what the author of the essay was attempting.
5
It's not that painful, Nancy. But it is truthful. And it needs to be exposed to the bright sunlight. Give it a go. It is a good piece.
8
If you really want to understand what the author of the essay is attempting to say, you should read the whole article yourself. Comments are helpful to a certain extent but they are really just opinions and therefore subjective.
5
Underlying the issues raised in this article is the objectification and segregation of people. Ms. Lim's piece shows not only how the (male) white supremacists use their prejudices as a filter to choose partners, but how the women accept and even play into these desired characteristics in order to be part of such a person's life.
26
"In reality, Asians are rarely considered white, and the model-minority myth obscures the vast differences among Asian-Americans. What’s more, the myth helped to strengthen America’s white liberal order, which claims to uphold diversity while also being anti-black. It legitimizes white America’s power to determine who is “good” and to offer basic dignity and equal rights."
Because some bigoted politician in the 1960's promoted this theory, it became a basis for "white liberal order"? I don't buy it. The vast majority of liberals are not anti-black. I truly resent that categorization. It only serves to divide those who care and work for equality for all.
18
Regarding Affirmative Action Asian woman most certainly are considered white.
2
The vast majority of conservatives are not racist either. I am an independent and haven't met any racists either.
1
The author has spent way too much time in the PC world of cultural studies, and become lost herself: "I have never fully extinguished the belief that racking up an impressive lineup of achievements is the only way to gain respect."
What other road to respect is she looking for? One without achievement? One where you're respected for making no effort, and being 'who you are'?
44
CH, There are "achievements" and "achievements," and not all of them involve becoming famous or rich. Being the world's best kindergarten teacher or a hard working garbage collector will not bring fame or fortune, but are critical to the successful functioning of the "social order." Far moreso than being a twittering bloviator pretending to run a country.
1
She's just making the point that Asians feel more pressure to rack up achievements than whites, to be, as she puts in later in the article, "smarter, nicer, prettier and more accomplished than my white counterparts for the same amount of respect".
1
I can explain what she means. Some folks (but not all) who are born white, male, privileged, and entitled, well, they inherit respect. This means that no one thinks to interrupt them during meetings; they get more than their fair share of praise for even mediocre work; they take credit for my work; and they throw temper tantrums when I am given credit for superior work. Moreover, these folks are lightning-fast to point out any of my perceived shortcomings and magnify them. People are surprised and skeptical when they find I work in a male-dominated industry (construction/regulation/project management). I'm usually one of the few women in the room and definitely the only Asian-American woman in the room. Like, ever. People don't judge other people on merit or personal character; they follow cues from political and pop culture presence. (With respect to that, Asian women have, let's see: boobalicious Chrissy Teigan, melancholy porn actresses, and the aforementioned Tila Tequila. Help us out, Tammy Duckworth!) My experience is that plenty folks don't have the mental software to comprehend that I am a voter, taxpayer, concerned citizen, and progressive rock enthusiast, and not some degrading comic stereotype. How does a young Asian-American woman like me combat all the skepticism? Well, strive for perfection, work harder, and lean in to shut up the nay-sayers. You have to be leagues ahead to gain grudging respect. I'm exhausted.
12
Illuminating article about something I've long sensed but could never put into words--and not just the part about the alt-right's fetish.
4
While I'm certainly no fan of the alt-right, too often our society reflexively blames the male species. It's important to keep in mind that relationships are not a 1-way street. Women make conscious decisions to enter into these relationships as well. Perhaps if the author had directed her ire towards the Asian women who chose to date these white supremacists - it may lead her to alternative, possibly deeper, insights into the situation.
31
Those women have more than agency and their own choices, they also have their very own likes and dislikes. They have their own cultural preferences for gender roles in a relationship.
That incidentally varies among white women too, in varying countries, and even regions of the US. See Paulina Porizkova's brilliant article in these pages, for gender roles in the many countries in which she lived and worked. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/10/opinion/sunday/paulina-porizkova-amer...
It is also not all one way, not all submissive. For example, many Filipino women are raised in the PI to expect to control the money in the family. Many want to be seen to pay the bills; my wife gloried in producing from her purse and her hand the money to pay for one of our cars, and enjoys paying the bill in restaurants. It is just a thing with her.
4
Finally, a comment that speaks the truth! Sure, the alt-right represents the absolute dregs of American society and they deserve every pejorative coming to them. But to cast Asian women as being the Stockholm Syndrome-afflicted victims in these alt-right-Asian pairings is ludicrous. Asian American women by-and-large have a fetish for white men, apparently regardless of the repulsive ideology. It really says more about the Asian women than the white alt-right men.
6
I do not relate to the author's youthful insecurities or need to be accepted at a cost to my internal compass and identity, despite sharing her race and gender, but let's give credit where it's due: it takes a certain amount of guts to share them, and to use them to point out how a racial hierarchy is upheld, not just by the white men, but others considered on 'lower rungs'. Perspectives like hers help to highlight the dynamics in our society, many of which are unpleasant and unhealthy. Both racists and those who try to ride their coattails are in the wrong, and understanding what and why they're the way they are helps to eventually wrestle our society from their grips.
16
"I do not relate to the author's youthful insecurities or need to be accepted at a cost"
How nice for you. I don't believe you.
7
White nationalism is no different than evangelicalism or any of the purity movement for that matter - filled with hypocrisy and irony. Because it's not really about achieving an end - it's about angry people looking for a sense of purpose and others seeking to profit from that anger. If we became a fully white Christian society tomorrow, this same group will shift the anger, hypocrisy, and irony to a new cause.
37
"Because it's not really about achieving an end - it's about angry people"
It is about emotions, not logic. It is at least dislike, and often a lazy hatred based on assumptions and stereotypes.
5
While both fair and imperative that we condemn white nationalists and their co-travelers, we are taking racial issues in the US way too far down the rabbit hole. This article is one example. It is interesting in a prurient sort of way, but does nothing other than add in another set of victims. We are one nation, and a nation of many contradictions. If everyone is a victim, then no one can move forward. High time we stop our race fetish and focus on personal outcomes. Education, access, opportunity -- regardless of race, linguistic background, etc -- are what we should be focused on. White nationalists are scary, but we enable them by perpetuating race as an identity issue that it shouldn't be.
11
Let's just say the Mark Zuckerberg isn't exactly an outlier within an identifiable sub-set of tech guys. And they are certainly not white nationalists.
20
Linking the Asian woman fetish particularly to the alt-right is an interesting, no doubt culturally verifiable observation. The author's ensuing effort to reveal herself to the reader in comparison to the Asian woman stereotype she describes seems too narrowly self-centered to me. While some non-Asians may hold such one-sided views as she reports, most understand these are racist stereotypes. People are individuals. Sometimes they may conform to tribal or ethno-cultural norms, sometimes not, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. The author's notion of what attracts non-Asian men she likes (I assume they were not Nazi sympathizers but maybe so) is based on her accepting the stereotypes she decries and fulfilling them. Sometimes. When she feels like it. Otherwise she works hard on her career etc. The other stereotype of Asians. She seems confused, oscillating on her own values, instead of accepting these dualities in our nature. She acknowledges the paradox. After all some men may appreciate the strong, Asian woman too. So I'm confused as to what I can understand from the article. Can I just like the Asian men and women I know and meet based on our individual interactions. I usually decide that way on people: I like him as a person, not her, she's o.k. and so on. No? It all just sex, fantasies are what's important. Just ask the alt-right? No, thank you.
12
This professor is clearly talking about the phenomenon of openly racist white males finding Asian women an exception to their "whites only" political ideology. She is not talking about the non-existence of strong females in any community.
14
It all comes down to white male insecurity. What would these alt right white boys do if asian men started to date and marry white women in large numbers. The alt right white neanderthals would moan and cry that their women are being taken away.
This article aptly illustrates the absurdity of the white supremacist imbecile who by and large is really just an insecure desperate failure grasping at myths to make himself feel better about his lot in life.
132
So basically, White men would do what Asian men do now?
Jewish women are also strivers, smart and cute, but the extreme right does not like or mix with Jews. Why the disparity? Asian women are not docile and pliant as they seem. Most of the behavior attributed to them I believe is social conditioning. I think a subtext of the article is that the Alt-Right is based on hyper-masculinity and hyper-feminine partner will inflate that ego. Guy Debord was right. We live now in a world of images that are treated as real.
70
Yes, you state the gist of it well. . But it's not new. The original Third Reich, for example, was replete with images that were enacted as if reality, not least the Great Leader and the various stereotypes, from the blond Nordic hero to the hideous and repulsive Jews and the brute-like eastern Europeans, etc. The uniforms of the SS were made as much for glamor as for clothing, and spectacles were plentiful. This is why they're the template for quite a bit of the alt right. People have always been vulnerable to the misuse of images, and stereotypes are not new in this regard. Many things have perhaps more resonance or reach now, though, due to methods of dissemination of ideas and images. But it's not new.
5
Good point- It is not new. The history of toxic masculinity is replete with posing men in male drag. In our age of total media 24/7- VR will be the next step, we are more immersed than in the 30's. Walter Benjamin and others were writing about it in 1935. The Nazi's seem to idolize a different type of woman, more of a girl-next-door farmgirl, I think. Maybe the alt-right are more desperate for their masculinity? My point being that Asian women as pliant docile and sexy is as much a false meme as the Nazi superman
1
The point of this article is that you can't group people together. Some Jewish women are cute, some are strivers and some are smart.
Listen 1/2 people is from Asia that's why there are so many "strivers" (basically any non-refugee immigrant) here.
The idea that the far right embrace of Asians seems to fit together with something Edward Blum and Students for Fair Admissions, the folks who sued Texas for reverse discrimination in admissions for a white student, are doing now. They are suing Harvard for discriminating against Asians, who are under represented at only 18% of the students.
6
If an ethnically neutral standard would have resulted in a greater number of successful Asian applicants then they are, indeed, being discriminated against.
The closest historical parallel would be the discrimination against Jewish applicants by Ivy League schools in the early decades of the Twentieth Century.
Discrimination against Jewish Americans was wrong then, as is discrimination against Asian Americans by elite educational institutions today.
3
Totally believable, revealing an interesting facet of the subject.
12
I still have my mother’s passport with the big red letter J in it together with the Nazi-added middle name of Sarah. The passport is interesting in a menacing kind-of-way: sturdy brown covers, expensive paper, a sharp well lighted photo, lots of swastikas, very modern typography, official looking stamps and elaborate handwriting; all obviously signifying the desire of German officialdom to put their best foot forward in representing Hitler and Nazi Germany to the world.
You could not beat the Nazis when it came down to typography, good penmanship and frightening bureaucrats who coupled robbery with intimidation and ominous threats.
America is not yet lost as long as the alt-right is not issuing passports as good as these.
But give Trump three or seven more years, and he will try.
98
That is paranoid.
3
Is Lim saying that interracial marriage is bad? Is this a full circle moment when the extreme left becomes the extreme right?
Is she saying that Asian women have no agency is their marriage choices?
Are only men on 4chan not allowed to marry Asian women or is it all white men? It's this kind of selective outrage and double standards that actually fuels the alt right.
14
After reading your comment, I wonder if you read the article? I ask this because I do not understand how you have come to the conclusion it seems you have.
24
No. Lim is explaining how the apparent acceptance of Asian women by white supremacists is actually a form of misogyny and racism. Nowhere in this essay does she suggest that Asian women should not marry whoever they want to marry regardless of race or gender.
27
Either this is a disingenuous comment, or the commenter should re-read the column.
12
The quote about Hitler respecting the Japanese and Chinese is from his recorded "The Political Testament of Adolf Hitler 13 February 1945". Another line from that document was "I promise you I am quite free of racial hatred" - so I would take his supposed admiration for the Japanese and Chinese with a whole shaker of salt. It's pretty well established that there was a whole school of thought of Nazi racism against the Japanese; they may have had a certain grudging respect for them as a civilization, and they preferred them to the targets of their ire in Europe, but let's not mistake that for Hitler seeing Asian peoples as equals. This is the real tradition followed by current white supermacists; they may see Asian Americans as the "model minority," but as Lim notes "Asians are rarely considered white."
67
Definitely not going to believe Hitler saw Asian peoples as equals, or superiors as this quote suggests. It does seem consistent with Hitler's reverence for ancient cultures, as evidenced by his obsession with Ancient Greece as the source of western civilization. The kind of Orientalist who would gladly raid the artifacts but still look down on the people.
5
It's a good idea take EVERYTHING Hitler said with several bushels of salt. Like Trump, he told whatever lie was useful to him at the moment, and contradicted himself later. He said he was a good catholic, and also said the Third Reich would have a new pagan religion. He preached Free Love in the Cities, and "Kirchen, Kuchen and Kinder" in the country side. These kinds of blatant self-contradictions are defining characteristics of Fascism.
6
Why no mention of the similarity between some Asian cultures and the "alt-right"(not sure what that means)? That is, espousing racial superiority and excluding those of other races, in hiring practices, housing and especially marriage.
40
Because that's not the subject. There is an actual definition of alt-right; you can look it up. The subject is white supremacists who choose non-white women, and why they justify it.
There are probably articles in Japanese, Chinese etc papers about cultural/racial supremacists there. This subject stands on its own, without your 'look at them instead' comment.
5
Many people are attracted to Asians and their higher intelligence. This is not discussed openly and honestly but is evident even when one looks at the marriage announcements here in the NYT where many of the interracial marriages are between successful white males and successful Asian females. The notion that alt-right people are attracted to this model minority makes sense given the fact that one of their underlying principles is the creation of a higher race. Interesting article which tries to explain and understand this phenomenon.
12
If you knew fellows on the alt right, you would know how off-base the idea that they are attracted to these women for their intelligence really is. They would laugh at the idea that they wanted a woman for her mind. They want a woman for service and sex, and have zero interest in creating an Asian and white mixed race. Their interest is to look dominant in the eyes of the other males in their gangs, and the stereotypes of east Asian women as subservient seem to enhance their sense that they are dominant.
6
The author seems to be talking about East Asians, and not Asians in general, which category would include people of Indian, Pakistani, etc. ethnicities. Her generalizations would not apply to people of these other, quite different, cultures.
30
As Edward Said pointed out, the classification of "East Asian" (Oriental) is Euro-centric: Europe, being the "center" of the world, designates location between itself and the rest of the world, thus, "Middle East," "Central Asia," "East Asia," "Southeast Asia." How can there be a real "east" or "west" on a globe? I wonder, without this medieval point of view what Indians would call themselves.
4
It is hypocritical for white nationalists to date Asian women but it is consistent with their need to support fragile egos. How else to feel supreme but be able to take the women of the men who you want to believe are inferior to you?
I'm just very sad that we keep defining each other by skin color and facial features. It is 2017, we know the science around genetics, DNA etc but we continue to focus on external superficial factors that are meaningless when it comes to defining a human being. SAD!
23
This piece is good in pointing out the undeniably existing pre- or non pre- judgments toward Asian women in general: diminishment and disparagement.
Those two are co-related, mostly coming from their physical characteristics. In addition, both the born-in-America-Asian Americans (female) and Immigrants from Asia (also female) tend to be subject for being severely stereotyped. The more any of those women defies the imposed stereotype by her deeds or acts, the more the diminishment on her would gain a value and circulate as a popular currency. This is a fact. Yes, a psychology matters here.
The piece is also confusing for its over-laden information. It attempts to cover, raise, or at least introduce certain issues from the White/Alt Right supremacists' mental resolution regarding feminism, to historical references to Hitler, to Asian women treated as comforts without explanation of precise historical contexts, to the veracity of Asian women's skin color consciousness, to Japanese animations, and implicitly more. This is a bit overwhelming. There exists also a risk that the writer unwillingly exposes herself as a hyper-intensive Asian woman, which may be, though, just a stereotype as well.
7
What about the Asian American women who get involved with these white supremacists? Vietnamese Americans, as a generality, are often seen as highly conservative, voting Republican. What do the Asian American women dating the neo Nazis have to say about their own political and social beliefs?
62
White supremacy is the dominant believe and they simply buy into it. The author mentioned feeling complemented when she was called white as a child. In my black childhood, being called white was one of the nastiest things one could be called. I've heard it's similar in native American communities.
However, being called white, as a black child, is really just an insult to black people. This self-hatred upholds white supremacy too.
In the malign hearts and minds of the neo-Nazi, KKK, Confederate, evangelical, Tea Party, Fox News Wall Street aka Alt-Right all Asians aka Nikki Haley and Bobbie Jindal are not created and hated equal to the ethnic Han Xi Jinping or the ethnic Nippon of Shinzo Abe or the ethnic Korean Kim Jong Un or the ethnic Vietnamese Ho Chi Minh.
6
Thank you, Audrea Lim, for this article on a disturbing aspect of the “alt-right” that many people seem to dismiss. An even greater emphasis could be put on the history of American imperialism in East Asia, where the United States retains scores of military bases to this day. In Japan and South Korea, rape and sexual assault have been major factors behind the animosity between the local population and the American military. If we understand the United States as an empire, perhaps these dynamics become a bit less curious or seemingly contradictory.
Additionally, the “alt-right” clearly has an infatuation with anime and Japanese “geek” culture, which can be a breeding ground for male anxiety and resentment, toxic masculinity, and violent anti-female fantasy. It was the “GamerGate” harassment campaign that launched Yiannopolous’s Breitbart stardom and reinvigorated a certain front of the culture war that played a significant role in the 2016 election. Moreover, when many criticized the remake of Ghost in the Shell featuring Scarlett Johansson for “whitewashing,” the alt-right actually joined in, making for a strange alliance. But it what alt-right men objected to was the replacement of the “Asian woman” protagonist they fetishize with a white woman.
This may seem to be a contradiction, but it is important to recognize that this is a “movement” of men who are desperately trying to retain the power and control to which they feel entitled, and do so through misogyny and racism.
52
It is not just the "alt-right" who are infatuated with anime and Japanese or other geek culture. Many techies (majority are men) who probably consider themselves "liberal" are as much taken by anime/manga/geek cultures. Silicone valleys (of the world) and tech companies everywhere have major issues with abuse/harassment/inequality against women and those running them (men mostly) would hardly call themselves alt-right.
3
While this is news to me, as I don't closely follow neo nazis, it does make sense. I sterotype neo nazis and white supremecist men as profoundly insecure, particularly of their "manhood". That they would fetishize the trope of the docile , subservient, undemanding Asian woman is evidence of both their inadequacies and their ignorance.
86
In terms of the alt-right, Charles Murray's first wife was Asian, and he speaks of that marriage to some degree in terms of a fetishization of Asian culture. Steve Sailer has also talked hypothetically about his 'ideal partner' being an Asian women.
Besides the reasons that the author gives, this accords with 'racial scientists' views that, in their IQ-hierarchy of human worth, Asians come out on top, with whites a close second. So that mythical subservience and hypersexuality is combined with the idea of 'marrying up' racially (and having eugenically superior children).
10
As an Asian-American, we don't get many perks. If any man of any race finds me particularly attractive, I'll take that. Just like blonde, blue-eyed women have benefited for years from being considered attractive.
35
If you knew these fellows, you would change your mind about the "benefits" of belonging to him, and fast, too. A perk, really? Your sense that blond, blue-eyed women live in some sort of heaven is not the case; it's a stereotype, too. If you find a man to love who genuinely loves you, that's the best case scenario in terms of love and mating. whoever he is, and whoever you are.
8
Don't get me wrong- I am not validating these alt-right men or that it is nice to be with them. All I'm saying is that there are benefits to being considered particularly attractive to a broad swath of people. Whether one chooses to be with anyone is the free choice of the woman.
As for blondes, anyone with a heartbeat has seen the attention and social and professional advantages that blondes get.
2
I'm disappointed that Mz Lim explains that not all Asians are the same. it makes it much more difficult to discuss the problem when the real world of cultural differences comes crashing in. its like saying that all white American men are blonde and stupid. See Trump?
7
"Still, I have never fully extinguished the belief that racking up an impressive lineup of achievements is the only way to gain respect."
This is an interesting observation, but I do think that the "insecure overachiever" personality type is fading among Asian-Americans. More Asian-Americans are simply secure achievers, content with what they've accomplished in life even if that doesn't include an undergraduate degree from Harvard.
And I think this development has to do with the realization that "insecure overachievers"--the kinds of people who get "plum jobs" at Goldman Sachs and McKinsey--are more often than not deeply unpleasant malignant narcissists who end up doing more harm than good to the people around them.
13
Thank you for writing this. This is the kind of information we need to better understand the "alt-right", instead of the usual hand-wringing about how economically disenfranchised these people feel. It appears to me the "alt-righters" are sturdy purveyors of the patriarchy, above and beyond all else.
In this, the HBO's Handmaid's Tale got it exactly right. With Mike Pence and his minions using Trump as they do, we get closer to that world every day. The refusal to have dinner with anyone other than his wife is chilling in this light.
30
The leading lights and more vocal members of the alt right are not economically disenfranchised. They are young, often highly intelligent, well-spoken (mostly) men. This is what makes the movement so frightening.
To understand the alt right, first and foremost, you need to grasp its misogyny. In many cases, this predates their obsession with race. Many of these guys are well-educated millennials who will tell you they were raised in an atmosphere of "you-go-girl" feminism, and they're launching a massive rebellion.
Ironically, a look at almost any "manosphere" discussion will reveal an absolute loathing of "western women" for their alleged masculinity, sluttiness, and, worst of all, it seems, tendency to gain weight. Women who aren't ultra-slim, they contend, don't care enough about the desires of men. They also argue that women cease to be attractive after age 25. Hence, the attraction to naturally thin, youthful-appearing Asians.
It's all a rich tapestry, really. The intersectionality of hate.
1
thanks for his reply-I think.... sometimes I'd (almost) rather think I'm just crazy than apprerhend the realities of these ugly truths.
It's remarkable the level of anger on display from those who disagree. I found the article smart and insightful - and catalyst for refection upon my own white male upbringing and embedded beliefs regarding Asian women. It seems that many have forgotten that learning often masquerades as discomfort. Perhaps those who disagree are exactly the ones who need to spend more time pondering their own bias?
47
Good observation. This reminds me of the response to one of Roxanne Gay's articles about how about men doing some of the work to cure misogyny and you would think she had personally attacked the world of each and every dissenter. Their responses were not just neutral but nasty and condescending to her article about her OWN experience.
7
The Asians are no different from many others who have immigrated to the U.S., except that they seem to have realized the American dream somewhat quicker than what might be expected.
A key factor in this has been the establishment of Asian banks and with that, the availability of credit for mortgages and business loans.
3
And how about a greater dedication to education as a reason?
11
Growing up in an adopted family with a Vietnamese younger sister in Alabama during the 70'-80's, I saw this dynamic at play constantly from all sides. The scariest and creepiest about it were the groups of African-American men who would follow her and taunt her with catcalls and quotes from 2 Live Crew raps(every Asian American female alive at the time knows which ones), but the KKK creeps sure weren't far behind on that score. Their intentions and actions were very openly fetishistic. Seeing my sister have to constantly fight both types of creeps, and the multiple ways that impacted her entire life, turned me into a feminist at a young age (the butt-kicking single mother probably helped there too). Seeing the dignity, intelligence, and wicked humor she used to fight them with still inspires me.
232
How about asking all those Asian women who opted to date the alt-right types? All relationships go both ways. Until we find out what drove them to them, we'll never find out the true meaning of how this phenomena is happening.
38
Geez guys, it’s an opinion piece, meaning it’s her personal opinion based on her personal experiences. At no point did she present it as more than that. If you want in depth, objectively researched information, don’t go to the section labeled “opinion”.
8
Alt-right men are ignorant. I couldn't say if their accepting Asian women is in any way making a statement about what their position is with respect to their desire to keep America white, but their taking issues with interactions on personal relationships with Latinos or African Americans is simple minded foolishness. I'm sure dating an Asian woman who's bright, sexual and family oriented is a wonderful experience, but eliminating a well educated, sexy and family oriented Latina or African American is just plain stupid, as is their "whites only" position.
Women of all cultures, colors and general background are a gift to mankind. Women have so much to offer in our society and across the world. Women are to be respected, nurtured and recognized as equals in every area. That these alt-right men can't grasp the fact that regardless of skin tone, all women have wonderful things to offer and to contribute is their loss. I've given up on even having discussions of this nature with anyone who can't see the obvious. It's like talking to a Trump supporter that thinks it's a good idea to vote against his or her own best interests. These positions have no basis in fact. So let them stay stupid.
8
Nobody votes against their self interests.
By definition, my self interests BELONG TO ME -- not you. You do not get to define what MY self interests are.
What you really mean is that I voted against YOUR SELF INTERESTS -- your desire to run this country and shove social engineering down our throats.
Sorry, Charlie.
1
I'm a psychotherapist who has worked with a number of women of East Asian descent. I have found they put up with awful behavior by men more than white women do. This must be something cultural, but the author refuses to admit that this problem exists, claiming instead that if I think that it's true I must be like Richard Spencer. The first step in addressing a problem is admitting it exists.
39
Stereotypes change over time. But readers should be aware that White men-Asian women dating, partner and marriage couples still out number Asian men-White women couples, and that some Asian and Asian American women, have a generalized preference for white men. (There is a similar preference for white partners by some Asian and Asian American men). Some of this may be due to the desire to assimilate or not be bound by racial or cultural type, or may be a function of class aspiration and preference. But this preference for white partners can also express a kind of reverse racism (often not recognized and notwithstanding the quality of the relationship or equal power between the partners) and coincides with "traditional" gender and racial hierarchies. However, this may be changing.
98
Certainly in some East Asian cultures, being brown means that you are of a lower class, peasant working out in the sun. Some women aspire to be fair and white-ish. Skin whitening creams are popular in Japan, Korea and Hong Kong. When you see popular East Asian film stars, they are not tanned. So I think that the preference for white over dark is ingrained in many societies. Nose jobs, eye lid modifications to look more White are still popular across different age groups.
7
I like your observations, but just a quick reminder that there is really no such thing as "reverse racism".
11
1. We should clebrate inter-racial relationships. That is the surest way to end racism. Even if it is between right wingers and their asian women (Mithch McConnell?) 2. Martin Luther King was correct that we should look forward to the day that we are judged by the "content of our character" and not by the color of our skin. or our gender, sexualtiy or our faith or lack of.
16
I live in Greenwich Village and a couple of decades ago, I would constantly see young east Asian women with their white boyfriends. Living in the Village as they did, I suspect that these white men were not flaming Republicans.
But things have changed. Most couples I see now are Asian women with Asian men, laughing and holding hands.
And for some reason not all Indian women joined this massive "let us find white boyfriends" trend. Some did but most did not. I have no idea why.
12
Having known both Vietnamese and Indian women and been privy to they’re dating experiences, I can say that the Vietnamese families didn’t put much, if any, pressure to date only Vietnamese men. All the Indian women I’ve known have had massive familial pressure to date only Indian men. I’ve known a couple who dated white men that they really loved but were adamant that when it was time to get married they would break up with them and marry an Indian man. It’s a small sample size, by no means definitive, but that’s been my experience.
8
I don't understand why so many people are failing to miss the point of this opinion piece. The author never states that the fetish for Asian women is exclusive to right wing Republicans or white supremacists; she states that the same fetish for Asian women that seems to extend across white male culture in this country also exists in white supremacists, and that this is contradictory to the supposedly foundational beliefs they hold in the superiority of white people.
5
Maybe they're not as fetishized as lighter-skinned Asian women from other parts of the world? There's a light of skin whitening going on over there, too.
1
Calling all women from that corner of the planet...."asian"...is ridiculous.
All men, regardless of skin color and/or political philosophy, will, at some point objectify women based on nationality.....irish, italian, scandanavian, russian, ukranian, whatever.......and the same behavior applies to the difference between Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese,,,,
oh, by the way....are fillipina women "asian" or "latino"?
9
It seems like the white person's obsession with the asian woman comes from a legacy of America spending most of the 20th century killing asians. WW2, Korea, Vietnam. With the victor goes the spoils. It is not unthinkable that many GIs had their first sexual experience with asian women and got hooked. As the americans are looked at as the conquering saviors in the context of these wars, there was naturally a big and addictive power differential that must persist to this day. US bases in the Philippines also probably had something to do with yellow fever. Anyway, fathers teach sons and the rest is history. Many of the Asian women I have encountered seem downright hostile to me as an Asian man. They seem to look at me as deficient somehow despite the facts that their white boyfriends are often marginally employed, lower on the social totem pole, or have some sort of behavioral/substance problem. As for sexual firecrackers or submissive? I have known many 4'9" asian women send their 6'2" white boyfriends cowering behind a potted plant with merely a glance. Be careful what you wish for KKK members. To me, anyone with a fetish for any race or will only date based on race has some serious problems as there is beauty in all races.
31
I see you can turn any subject into a bash America opportunity, but why, if you say the "White person's obsession" comes from waring with Asians, does France not have this obsession? They fought the Vietnamese for 10 years before the Americas had a go. Or is it just White Americans that have this obsession?
4
"The stereotypes that feed the Asian-woman fetish are not exclusive to the far right. They exist across the political spectrum...."
Your click-bait headline politicizes the evil of racial stereotyping.
6
Defining an individual based of their group identity is wrong; however, different cultures do have different characteristics.
2
Much-welcomed and insightful analysis of the variety of ways in which white supremacist views can be expressed, sometimes even masquerading as a hint of egalitarian thinking. Alas, as Ms. Lim points out, the "exceptions" these racists seem to make in their relationships and evaluative remarks regarding Asian women are no more than the further degradation of a select group for the purpose of serving the libidinous needs of white men. So interesting how willing the white supremacists are to make exceptions to their fiercely defended "racial separation" philosophy when they are feeling horny. Maybe these fellows can ask their smart Asian wives and girlfriends how to spell "hypocrisy"?
12
“I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves,” Adolf Hitler said in 1945. “They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own.”
As we all originated in the continent of Africa and there were other amazing ancient civilizations around the globe, the ignorance scaffolding that back handed "compliment" ("past") is astonishing, repulsive and not dissimilar to the attitudes of some of the least impressive people in the present.
6
Just needing a tiger mom.
4
If some alt-right men had a "tiger mom", they would have completed their education, become doctors or lawyers, and would not have accepted the alt-right.
7
I once went in to see a doctor (east Asian), who immediately seized on my personality and interests and wondered aloud why I wasn't a doctor. I mumbled, "wrong parents" - meaning no tiger mom - he understood what was saying.
When my great-grandmother left Ireland, she went all the way across America to Southern california, where, in the mid-1800's, she could pass for white. She married my Jewish great-grandfather, who also passed in those days for white. Their third daughter married a half-Cherokee, half Scots-American man who was ... passing for white.
Americans legalised the idea of "one drop of Negro blood". Some now frantically justify ignoring DNA test results, because the truth eradicates their own identities. Why shouldn't every group pass as anything at random, depending on current fashion? Let's all agree, though, this has nothing at all to do with skin color.
5
I get the right -wing type guy going for Asian women, who are small and delicate and in fact have the look of very young teens. It's a Roy Moore thing. Also kind of a Southern thing. The man, after all bragged about his "jail-bait" Asian girlfriend!
22
Completely agree. Asian women are usually smaller and often slender. I think this sets up a belief for some men of being able to dominate, and also brings out the desire to treat women like a teen or child. I've always thought the Asian Women fetish (or any sexual fetish related to race) was odd but I think some of it can simply explained by size differential and, as you point out, a perceived youthfulness.
12
So you're saying Asian women are small and frail? That sounds a lot like racism to me.
5
Hitler did not just consider the Japanese as potential allies, like Dylann Roof apparently did, but Hitler was actively collaborating with them as an Axis power for most of WW2. And Hitler only soured of the Chinese as potential allies when they signed a pact with the Soviet Union in the late 1930s and therefore became unavailable as supporters; the Chinese engaging in a war with Japan did of course not help. And the admiration for Japan in Europe reaches much farther back, to the Japanese winning the War against Russia of 1904-5. Combined, this information hardly licenses seeing Hitler as a supporter of East-Asians as a model minority.
1
The piece is remarkable ahistorical. There have certainly been other model minorities besides Asians in American history with conflicting, dangerous, and untruthful images projected on the women of those groups. What the author notices in white supremacist men in relation to Asian woman has been applied numerous times throughout history to both African American women and Jewish women. How the author failed to even recognize it is perplexing. Both African American women and Jewish women belong to groups most vilified by white supremacists, yet these women were seen as fundamentally sexually different from other women; femme fatales believed by racists to have hypersexual natures derived from their races and cultures (which were considered both depraved and inferior). These seductive enchantresses supposedly ensnared men. This was nothing but white supremacist men being afraid of the power which they believed such women possessed. Still, racists desired these woman precisely because they were incredibly afraid of them. The solution was to dominate or destroy them. This is something else the author may want to consider. What will these hateful misogynistic men will do to the Asian women they are with once they realize that these Asian women are just women like other women? What will be the result when their entire belief system requires that they be with an Aryan woman, not an Asian woman, so they can perpetuate the master race by having Aryan children?
2
I read through this twice and couldn't locate its shape-shifting point or Ms. Lim -- out to diss Asian women who date white -- couldn't pull it off without offending her self-identity as a left feminist, which may explain her incoherence.
Lim hides her palpable resentment of Asian women by objectifying them as love "fetishes" for racist white men. Apparently Asian women have no volition about who they date. They just melt into the arms of panting white boys.
They're Geisha Girls oblivious to the "fun-house" of white racism. They're either airhead China dolls who aren't "woke" to racism or sly gold-diggers who are "entitled to play up the stereotypes if...[there's] something to be gained."
She writes "This fun-house mirror asks me to be smarter, nicer, prettier and more accomplished than my white counterparts...then floods my dating app inbox with messages that reek of Asian fetish." Whoa, that's a big chip to carry, though it's unclear if it's about white girls, Asian fetish, white supremacists, her dating app, climate change or monopoly capitalism. I'm guessing it's everything.
Though her topic is white racists who itch for their "Asian fetish" she ends by announcing that "The stereotypes that feed the Asian-woman fetish are not exclusive to the far right." Oh.
That explains why Ms. Lim blithely indulges in racist stereotypes of her own.
Fake news meet fake identity rage.
PS. I'm Chinese. Asian women I know are as individual and unique as all women are.
32
You're misreading her descriptions of stereotypes for being her own, and I am surprised that several commenters seem to do that; one even comments that the word stereotype is itself racist.
6
The author's point is that Asian women are individuals, not stereotypes. I'm sorry you didn't read the column.
3
Good read. Now NY Times, do one about the way black men fetishize white women, how they demean and objectify them in hip hop and rap and in general African-American culture. I know, I know; too taboo for you. Let's just keep attacking the "Alt-Right", a group of socially-inept white guys who mostly spend their time whining on 4chan.
24
Thank you for taking this one on. I am grateful for your clear-eyed perspective!
6
Perhaps hinted at, but not fully explored is another possible reason for the "Alt Right" men's fascination with Asian women; fears of sexual inadequacy. At the root of many racist attitudes of these scared white men is the deep seated fear that they don't quite "measure" up. Perhaps they gravitate towards Asian women in the mistaken belief that they will seem more virile and manly compared to their stereotyped notions of Asian men. They fear they can't compete with African American men in the masculinity department, but think that Asian women will be more easily satisfied by what they have to offer. Fear of black men's sexuality lies at the root of so much of the history of racism in this country.
42
Model minority "myth"?
Statistically it's not a myth. East Asians statistically do better than all minorities except Jews.
It's not a myth, it's an objective fact.
26
"White Power" advocates should all be tested for racial purity by AncestryDNA or a similar service. Put up or shut up. My results said I was 99% European Jewish. My grandparents came over in the late 1890s and I was born in Chicago as a second-generation citizen. But, to the White Nationalist crowd, I'm not racially qualified to be an American citizen.
Pairing this column that celebrates the racism and sexism of White Nationalist males with the profile of the Christian nationalist Museum of the Bible (their Bible, not my Bible) sure gives me the feeling that I'm not in America any more. (And seeing Donald Trump's face everywhere I look just confirms it.)
6
I was right there with you until I got the second paragraph. Nowhere in this opinion piece do I see a "celebration" of the racism and sexism of white nationalist males. The author exudes a fairly obvious contempt for the subjects of the article (and a well-deserved contempt at that, which she illustrates at length.)
1
Does it occur to white-supremacists who marry women of east Asian heritage, that their children will be biracial and probably look more Asian than Caucasian? How do you teach your son that the white race is superior (though mom is an OK exception) when he doesn't look white?
5
I knew a biracial (white/Philipino) guy who wanted to make sure the mother of his children was white, because he didn't want his children to look part-Asian. Sad.
1
The Asian Americans who are racist themselves are similar to gay people who are racist.Everyone wants to be a bit higher in the hierarchy and most will willingly throw other oppressed groups under the bus in order to get ahead.The rainbow coalation of gays,feminists and people of color is a sham.A lot of introspection is required before eternal outrage that is so popular in liberal circles.That is the bitter truth.
3
I think women regardless of race have a fetish for white men and fascist white men in particular. This is actually born out in studies and if you look at how women responded to SS men in the nations occupied by Nazi Germany (remember all the women with their heads shaved after the war ?) also women have a thing for "bad boys" which is a evolutionary survival strategy. As one tribe conquered another the women that survived were the ones that could be with a man that just killed all the men of their tribe. There are even stories of Jewish women having relationships with concentration camp guards which was of course forbidden and quite bizarre but even in that kind of setting our biology just takes over.
1
Many of these shaved head women that you refer to were forced to work as prostitutes in order to support themselves and/or their families. I doubt that all of them had fetishes for white men.
8
Yes, I remember the images of women with their heads shaved. It was done to every woman who entered a concentration camp. The ones that you saw photos of survived, and good on them. The stories of Jewish women having "relationships" with concentration camp guards are stories of survival, much like those of Jewish men who chose to act as guards over their fellow inmates rather than be killed. None of this has one thing to do with "biology taking over" except to the extent that the will to survive is biological.
3
Thank you for the excellent piece describing yet another element of self-trapping ridiculousness in alt-right thought. I knew nothing about this phenomenon. Two things came to mind.
First: I noticed that the women are referred to as "girlfriends" rather than "wives." I wonder if there are statistics as to how many, if any, of these relationships en up in marriage with children; or are these girlfriends simply exotic sex playthings the men justify through a quote from Hitler.
I cannot help but wonder how many of these loser white guys found their Asian cuties through sites that exist to export women from Asian countries to white men unable to sustain emotionally mature relationships?
13
Mike Cernovich's wife is not "Asian" in the sense that other women mentioned in this sad article are, she's Persian.
Really bad look for FNYT, guess you were really broken on November 8th,
5
I’m not sure you can find logic to the thought process of a neo-nazi, white nationalists, guys who go out of their way date Asian women, or Tila Tiquila.
Racism is deeply ingrained in many cultures and a lifelong process to rid ourselves of false preconceived notions. Just try showing up to Westminster dog show with a mutt you picked up at the shelter.
3
I know a lot of white Democrats who are married to Asian women.
6
Do they espouse white supremacist views? That would make your point salient. Otherwise, not so much.
5
The author seems to have channeled her insecurities as an Asian-American and not a white American into an angry torpedo about who is dating Asian-American women. Everyone dates everyone all across this country. To not know this is or accept this means you are diminished by your own prejudices and biases.
14
With connotations of immorality, it's wrong for Lim to describe the Moynihan Report's as attributing black poverty to a degenerate black culture.
The report uses words like destructive and pathological. It does not discuss moral issues, but how Black families in the sixties had been weakened by slavery and racism and needed support by government.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-moynihan-report...
> What then is that problem? Three centuries of injustice have brought about deep-seated structural distortions in the life of the Negro American. At this point, the present tangle of pathology is capable of perpetuating itself without assistance from the white world.
> In a word, a national effort towards the problems of Negro Americans must be directed towards the question of family structure. The object should be to strengthen the Negro family so as to enable it to raise and support its members as do other families. After that, how this group of Americans chooses to run its affairs, take advantage of its opportunities, or fail to do so, is none of the nation's business.
> The policy of the United States is to bring the Negro American to full and equal sharing in the responsibilities and rewards of citizenship. To this end, the programs of the Federal government bearing on this objective shall be designed to have the effect, directly or indirectly, of enhancing the stability and resources of the Negro American family.
6
I am glad @ Jerry responded to the remark about Moynihan. -and gave that link. When Moynihan wrote that, it was perceived in that time as direct criticism of black families, and not as commentary on American history and culture that had brought us to that point. The issues that Moynihan raised were later raised by Black activists. Ms Lim was pretty cavalier in presenting this as accepted truth.
3
The most astonishing piece of this story is that an Asian American woman would be giving the Nazi salute at a white nationalist rally. Or why would other Asian Americans find white nationalist activists attractive as mates? Amazing revelation,.
3
Is this the most racist article ever published on the NYT? It's racist in its message, points, and focus. A sort of reverse white racism, Asian racism, and overall racist. The word, "stereotype," is really another racist dog whistle.
10
The word "stereotype" is not a dog whistle.
5
The writer forgot to mention the notorious “white supremacist” Mitch McConnell, leader of the senate. He went so far as to actually marry an Asian woman. And the White Supremacist-in-Chief, Donald Trump, actually put her in his Cabinet. Once this was all enlightened. Now it’s some sort of racist fetish?
Why is the NYT publishing this angry drivel, which belongs in some fringe academic publication?
8
These white supremacists don’t strike me as being terribly romantic. Just look at Hitler. His idea of a honeymoon was a cyanide pill and a bullet to the head.
14
I wonder how many "alt-right men" would approve of a white woman with an Asian man.
734
Is the suggestion that the alt-right is racist and sexist? Was that in question?
7
White women of all political persuasions scorn us - to them we are "not real men."
11
They'd be bashing his head in and attacking her for "dating outside her race".
What'd you think?
9
Why only East Asians? Have you forgotten the others. e.g., South Asians - or they just don't count in your limited view of race relations?
81
Too dark. White boys like that porcelain skin.
20
The kind of male fetishism of females discussed by the author is almost always directed at women with East Asian ancestry.
I didn't find the view "limited," rather, it was quite accurate
16
The author can respond but this may be because the white supremacists in question did not date/ comment on South Asians so it may not be relevant to her article.
9
The author also could have mentioned that Anders Breivik, the Norwegian mass shooter and terrorist who killed 77 people in July 2011, specifically cited Japan and South Korea as admirable nations worthy of emulation because of what he perceived as their emphasis on maintaining ethnic and racial homogeneity.
It's all very strange. Certainly Asian-Americans should always be wary of being cited by certain white Americans as a group of people whom blacks and Hispanics should aspire to emulate.
20
Yes, but notice the alt- right boys don't want to marry, and especially breed with, Asian Girls. It's a walk on the Semi Wild side. Just saying.
13
I'd like to hear what Lela Lee, of "Angry Little Asian Girl", has to say about this.
I'm married to an Asian woman from one culture and used to date one from another. The word "subservient" has never come to mind once! So much for stereotypes.
5
Asian women are not subservient, but they are cooperative.
I remember going to a meeting of Indians in Indianapolis some years ago. Every woman there had either an MD or a PhD. And they all cooked for their husbands.
5
The reality is that, in most cultures, women still do most of the cooking, whether they are "cooperative" or not.
5
You can find as many, ff not more instances of these stereotypes and brutality perpetrated by other Asians, or in respect to the military, the acts of terror committed by the Japanese army against women in China and Korea where far more heinous and widespread than anything U.S. military has ever done. This is not to say that what the writer describes is not important, but that white supremacy is not the sole force behind the exploitation of Asian women (and while we're at it, Tila Tequila is not the sole Asian celebrity). All said, I think this is an interesting phenomenon that the writer points to. I wonder how these women feel about their alt-right husbands' political views and activism. More research is needed.
4
Maybe because the writer is female she is missing the main point. The white dominance movement is almost entirely populated by angry young white men embracing a collective myth of deserved power and status without actually accomplishing anything beyond being born white.
Men like this are threatened by confident, powerful women and despise feminism. They especially don't want female companions that compete with them for power. The Asian women of their fantasies are not the high achievers- they are beautiful and compliant geisha girls who would serve them without complaint and bend to their will without resistance.
150
I don't think the writer missed that point at all. And if she had, why would that be "because the writer is female"?
10
It's so tempting to declutter the brain by using the human shorthand that racial/ethnic stereotypes represent. Combine that with the us/them thinking we all share and evil will begin to seep out of the ground like swamp gas. What to do?
3
This comment might offend some people, but I feel like I have to point out the elephant in the room. In general (not all), it's low-status white males, including members of the alt-right, that fetishize and seek Asian women. They tend to lack social or attractive qualtiies to be successful dating domestically, so they exploit their economic advangtage to date women from disadvantaged countries.
27
Interesting essay on a fascinating issue ...Yet no mention of Mitch McConnell?
13
I was unaware of that Hitler quote on Japanese and Chinese and that may change the way I look at Nazism a bit. Thanks for that. Nevertheless, Ms Lim has, in my opinion, overdone her Baudelaire-isms painting Asian women (and herself) as "Fleur du Mal" of White Nationalism. To console her, I'd also like to add that her obsession, Ms Tequila, seems to be more interested in making a living than a statement, which would then tie the whole story together on a more human level. Ms Lim is onto something, but we don't yet know what.
2
Ah ha! I've often wondered how Mitch McConnell could enjoy ruinous, racist policies, yet be married to an Asian woman. Now it makes a little more (thought still twisted) sense. I'm sure a similar set of "values" could be applied to Trump, seeking to crush immigration, yet married to an immigrant. Thank you, Ms Lim.
33
Mitch McConnell's wife is heiress to billions with a shipping line owner father. He grew up poor.
10
I didn't realize Mitch McConnell was a gold digger. But I guess the adage is true - "You can fall in love as easily with a rich (wo-)man as with a poor one."
5
I am white, my wife is Asian. We have a child who we love very much.
A few years ago we met Yoko Ono and Sean Lennon in a restaurant in Las Vegas. They were really nice to us. John and Yoko are such an iconic interracial couple.
This is a really good article. It’s also a total downer. No one talks about falling in love anymore.
8
The opinion piece isn't about "love". It's about fetishization. And specifically, it's about the self-contradictory fetishization of Asian women by white men who claim for themselves the title of "master race" and otherwise want a "pure" white country.
6
People make big mistakes when they look at a person's color and draw conclusions.
My daughter, who has been termed the "little liberal" by conservative associates will talk about her prejudice against Asian drivers. She's generalizing by extending an observation about some to include the entire universe.
Reporting about crime does the same thing to black people. Typically, it's no longer saying an accused criminal is black, but showing a picture. Some racists use that information to maintain that they are not racist.
"Asian" is a pretty big category. It includes people who are very different and who have different cultural histories. Some of them are historical enemies.
I have some sympathy for this writer who wanted to be accepted in her school years. A lot of us indulge in that kind of pandering to be accepted.
The irony is that the range of variation is enormous even within the classifications of gender. Who is "white?" Who is "Asian?"
4
Just living, as we say, "down here", I think that for these guys, it's not about Asian stereotypes of intelligence or model minority status that account at all for their liking for Asian women or girls. For them, the primary, perhaps only, relevant characteristic is those women's gender. They don't see past that with a female. And their own images and fantasies are of themselves as Real Men, who completely dominate their woman, herself completely obedient and serviceable and self-abasing, and as racists, they see Asian women as that. They want to show off their dominance to the other males. That is the reason for their preference. They will not want mixed-race sons, however; you may expect them to avoid that. They're a cult, really, like the brown shirts back in the day. Immature, entitled, dangerous.
11
Look. Liking Asian women is maybe the only human thing about these white supremacist creeps.
Factual point: the U.S. military did not invent prostitution in Japan, Korea or Vietnam. In Japan, brothels were inherited from their military. Our sailors in Yokosuka went to the same akasen chital (red light district) the Japanese Imperial Navy had frequented. One of the great streams of Japanese art, Ukiyoe, took as a prime subject the "gay quarters" of Kyoto and Tokyo. How did women get there? Often, dirt poor farm parents sold them to the houses. A similar system existed in Korea, brutally occupied by Japan from the turn of the century.
MacArthur's edict ended designated houses of prostitution for GIs but not for Japan, which in 1955 outlawed but did not eliminate prostitution. As I understand it, the 1946 edict curbed all fraternization, reflecting the bigotry of some U.S. commanders. Someone, perhaps MacArthur, recognized prohibiting fraternization was impractical and very insulting to a country with which the U.S. intended to bind up wounds of war.
In the 1950s, the era of GI brides began, marriages at which I officiated as a U.S. Vice-Consul. Decades later, researching a book, I found data showing a divorce rate nearly identical to national rates, a cheery statistic given the cultural obstacles these brides faced.
"Miscegenation", once denounced by white supremacists, is a fine thing. biologically and culturally.
.
8
On immigration forums, there is a subset of men who skew alt-right and who believe that American women have been ruined by feminism, so that they must "date abroad" to be truly free. These men tend to look for Asian women and Russians. They defend Duterte and Putin. They are usually previously divorced and older, and a find a younger bride on foreign dating sites. And they are angry— angry at liberals, angry at women, angry at losing their job, angry at being too poor to afford immigration, angry at everything.
Thank you for unpacking a part of this knotted psychology.
48
Yes, if you look into their words, they condemn American women as "too feminist." The same reason they want to be "supreme" over other races is why they want the same over women. It is ALL about their being bosses of everyone else; they are the supreme ones, and no, women are certainly not included. These guys are as sexist as they are racist. It seems odd to me that people don't see that; it's very plain in them--but I do see more of them here in Oklahoma than people in some other places, I guess.
11
How these people get over their cognitive dissonance is amazing.
6
Oh, the infamous white guys who “only date Asian chicks”. It comes as no surprise to me that the alt-right is composed of these men.
Also, thank you for discussing the harmful aspect of the “model minority”— far too often people actually think this is a good thing. It has its uses, for sure, but at the end of the day to have my achievments chalked up to my race is pretty demeaning.
13
To me, far more "confusing" than the "Asian-woman" fetish of many alt-right men reported here is the willingness of anyone (female, Asian, neither) to engage romantically with bigoted nincompoops who say things like "There is something about Asian grill....They have a kind of thing going on." That's on par with fetishizing female cheerleaders. If we're talking about female 9th and 10th graders, I can sort of understand. But it seems we're talking about adult Asian females -- with perhaps a kind of Stockholm Syndrome "thing going on."
8
There is something weird about how many white Americans view east Asians. You can see it with adoption. Families want to adopt Asian girls, not boys. That was true in Korea, Cambodia and Mongolia. When we adopted our son from Mongolia there were 4 baby boys available for adoption and 4 families that were waiting for girls. I heard similar stories about Cambodia and Korea.
My Chinese daughters have never experienced any overt racism, but my Mongolian son has.
I'm not surprised that white supremacists have Asian girlfriends. " The second myth is that of the subservient, hypersexual Asian woman." writes the author. Sick, but it rings true.
16
In my small universe, seems like MANY more liberal white men date/marry Asian women than do conservatives. (Just an observation, certainly not based on expansive data.)
5
The point, Robert, is that men who profess to defend the white race, who talk about its "purity" and condemn its being contaminated by other races are doing so. That is what makes it odd.
9
How unspeakably oppressive - to think of Asians as intelligent and willing to do the work necessary to succeed in life.
7
The credibility of this opinion is ntot helped by characterizing the Moynihan Report as blaming black problems on "degenerate" black culture. What it did was focus on the single mother matriarchal nature of black american society and the need for a stronger family structure,
4
“ systematic exploitation of everyone who isn’t white “
I have numerous successful happy Chinese friends. Guess I’ll have to tell them they are being systematically exploited.
4
Asians are among the most successful of all immigrant groups in recent times to the US -- high achieving and affluent.
If that's exploitation, can I have some?
1
The lack of self-awareness shown by the males commenting here would be hilarious if it wasn’t a key driver of the current flush of racism and sexism.
My heart aches for the humuliations suffered by Asian women at the hands of some white men. Who are acting on racist impulses whether they like the term or not.
When a white man expresses his preference for an Asian woman due to her presumably having stereotypical characteristics, he is expressing a preference for a woman that will service his desires. There is no thought whatsoever as to what the woman might want.
Let me let you in on a secret, white men of this ilk: women become good at suppressing their gag reflex in the process of coldly evaluating which step on the basement stairs might be slightly less uncomfortable or dangerous.
They find you nauseating, but since you insist on hogging most of the opportunity in society for yourselves, many women have little choice but to allow themselves to be used. You are only a slightly better choice than remaining in a sewer.
30
I took my little son to visit China town in Manhattan two weeks ago. I told him I liked going there because it felt like being in another country--people speaking Chinese, signs in Chinese, different foods and goods offered at the markets. But I also had to tell him that China towns exist in different cities because of laws that used to segregate the Chinese and discriminate against them. Since we're Jewish, he wanted to go to "the Jewish section" next. But we didn't find any neighborhood that concentrated the ethnicity like that. "I guess," I told him, "the Jews just spread out all over the city." It was a striking example to me of the disparities in Chinese and Jewish immigration experiences. Most of the Jews in this country immigrated from Europe, and 60 years after the Holocaust, we feel comfortable and free to live in non-Jewish neighborhoods. We function mostly as white people. We mostly are white people. But in NYC, Chicago, Toronto, and San Francisco, there are China towns. Many Vietnamese people live in Flushing; Ethiopians are concentrated around D.C. The area of Durham that I live in is called "Taco Row" because there are so many taquerias and taco trucks just in this 2 mile stretch. Immigrants from these countries huddle near each other and help each other, but that is just not as true for white immigrants from Europe and their descendants. The names of these neighborhoods strikingly display who feels racial privilege and who doesn't.
174
There are still "Jewish neighborhoods" in New York, Chicago and the East Coast cities.
13
Or maybe a lot of it has to do with different food and other cultural habits, as your taqueria example suggests?
Most Europeans have no problem finding the foods they are used to at mainstream food outlets, so they have no particular reason to huddle together in neighborhoods that provide those special foods. Not so other immigrants from non-European cultures, Asian in particular, thus Chinatowns with a high concentration of a particular type of foods.
Other factors are the proximity of minority cultural and religious centers of attraction, e.g. mosques or churches that conduct services in Spanish or Chinese, etc. There needs to be a critical mass to support minority cultural institutions.
When Jews are more religious, they need to live near a synagogue. When they are less so, they are freer to scatter around the city.
Not everything is about discrimination, a lot is about self-selection due to cultural needs.
13
Sarah,
What you describe existed for Jews as well. The lower east side of NYC was exactly that, signs and shops for a Yiddish community. Go to Williamsburg today to experience more. You just need to know where to find it.
21
Whether you hate a group or love a group, lumping all members of the group together is racist. To say 'There is something about the Asian girls' is to not judge them as individuals. When I lived in Japan, some Japanese people, on learning I was Jewish, said 'That's great, because all Jews are smart and rich!' When I returned to the States, some friends said 'Aren't Japanese girls beautiful?' Well, yeah, some of them.
311
I guess the Japanese never heard of Ethiopian Jews, some of the oldest still thriving...or Jews from India/Cochin...or Jews from Iraq...Jews too come in all colors and stripes, heh.
5
That was also said to me in Peru, although often accompanied by remarks such as, “ “your people” have the nicest beach club in Ancon,” the Peruvian equivalent of the Hamptons. This attitude was so pervasive that when I did eventually attend synagogue services in Lima, I was surprised to see a large number of elderly, poor looking worshippers. I’d bought into the stereotypes!
8
"The stereotypes that feed the Asian-woman fetish are not exclusive to the far right."
I'm sure this is true. However,I found the attitudes and quotes of white supremacists regarding Asian women simply repugnant. My nephew is married to a Korean-American woman, I love dearly; I can't imagine how she'd react to this.
As I read this I felt a new twist to the standard misogyny of some men, prevalent in the white supremacist crowd. There's female objectification, of course, and then a tacit but ugly "permission" to allow themselves sex with Asian women outside their"whites only" code.
It almost could be compared to the plantation mentality where some white slave-owners took advantage of their power.
There are ads running on Comcast, a campaign against stereotyping in school. Several of the characters are Asian-Americans who attempt to show the audience you can't paint everyone that looks a certain way by the same brush.
The ads are effective--because unfortunately, stereotyping is what happens, and has always happened as Americans deal with new residents and cultures.
In the Age of Trump, white supremacy has made this stereotyping more prevalent allowing bigoted types like Richard Spencer to have a voice and almost go mainstream.
It's one of the more ugly aspects of Trump's victory that his supporters feel emboldened to go after anyone who's different from some sort of white ideal.
122
"I'm sure this is true. However,I found the attitudes and quotes of white supremacists regarding Asian women simply repugnant"
You mean there are other things about white supremacists that you do not find repugnant? Give me a break!
What I do not understand is why Asian women take up with white men. "For God's sake, your civilization is twice as old as Europe's. YOU were the ones who invented gun powder and used it to make fire crackers instead of killing people. And YOU find white men attractive?"
4
@Aruna: I don't understand your post, which is full of anger. Please clarify.
Of course there are other things repugnant about white supremacists, but I was responding to the issue Asians, because it's the topic of this column. As for your rant questioning why Asians should date white men, it seems as prejudicial as the white supremacists.
People fall in love with the person, not the stereotype of what they expect from what they think a person should be. Note, I say fall in love, not "use" a person for sex or status based on casual intentions.
Why shouldn't an Asian woman fall in love with and marry a white person? To think otherwise is, frankly bigoted.
17
It is tempting to paint all Asian-Caucasian couples with the same brush. While the author seems angry, there is certainly legitimacy in her experiences. Just like there are many strong, independent and proud Asian women, there are also relationships and marriages between Asian-American (or Asian) women and men of different races that are based on equality and mutual respect. As model minority, Asian-Americans may need to work harder (and have the reputation), but only white men really have the privilege. Everyone else has to prove themselves against the head winds, and contend with negative stereotyping by media and dominant culture at large. Asians are hardworking but not creative ... women are backstabbing and opportunistic ... and so it goes.
5
So good, Audrea. I relate on so many levels. Thank you.
6
I'm an old white guy (Vietnam war era), thus grew up with exposure to the complete range of Asian stereotypes, but no exposure to actual Asians.
Rather late in life I met my second (Vietnamese immigrant) wife and her daughter from her first marriage. These two women absolutely do NOT fit any stereotype I was ever exposed to, period. They are far from 'docile', coy, subservient nymphets, or even remotely fit anything that appears in this article. They are both sharp as a whip, take no crap from anybody, and would spot any neo-nazi jerk in a heartbeat. Maybe I'll put on one of those noise cancelling headphones and ask them their opinion of "yellow fever", not.
194
Thanks for this. People have to wake up to the fact that as the cliche goes, stereotyping is bad--I'd throw in a few other adjectives, "inaccurate" and "unfair."
20
Well said. Thanks.
3
Interesting critique. While it calls out how white supremacists conform to certain fetishes and ideologies concerning women, Ms. Lim mistakenly makes all the world and all actions themselves conform to such myths, excluding (East Asian) males from the discussion and the dynamics overall. That brothels were coordinated in Korea and Japan and Viet Nam are well known, but that they also conform to an idea of alt-right fetishism is a contortion and oversimplification of historical complexity (the misfortune is largely that women in conquered or warring lands are forced/coerced into prostitution at much higher rates that in non-warring lands).
Too much, too forced here (so, how is Tila Tequila a model minority or is she rebelling against it, or is she just trying to bank on extending her fifteen minutes no matter how she can, whether she is Asian or not?).
When haven't Indian Americans ("South" Asians) and American Jews rebelled against the model minority myth (Kal Penn, Mindy Kaling, Adam Sandler, Amy Poehler, etc.). Of course, the model minority myth has its own sociological/educational/economic underpinnings (largely due the fact that so many of the Asians who migrated to America after the Hart-Celler Act of 1965 were well-educated and found good jobs at good companies -- a legacy which they instilled into their children (and from which many of their children chafed).
I know, I see it throughout my extended family (both East and South Asian parts).
~K
11
How unsettling. It seems that that many humans, and certainly our culture, is racist by nature. No wonder I was such a fan of Star Trek, where the common wisdom was that we are all the same under the skin. Whatever ever happened to Dr. King's dream that each of us be treated as an individual?
13
“They are cute. They are smart. They have a kind of thing going on.”
Yeah, well, I may have thought that way once, but thirty years married to a Taiwanese woman has sobered me up. The alt right keeps on this track and they might yet learn to act and speak modestly.
24
Just a really well written article; well worth the time.
27
Using a preferred 'model' minority to claim a moral superiority that allows the stigmatization of another minority? Exclusive, arbitrary, and based on transactional ethics. That sounds about alt-right to me. And absolutely reprehensible, once again, in its embrace of a Darwinistic, zero-sum, ethnic hierarchy that we're told, for reasons not entirely clear, we need to really, really, care about. How can humanity be considered special by descending into a Darwinistic world-view when it comes to race and ethnicity? Not just behaving like animals, but embracing the idea that a zero-sum approach to race is some crowning achievement of the human intellect. What is the point of any moral code if we decide our intellectual potential is best served by behaving like animals in resource competition when it comes to racial superiority or inferiority? Of genetic 'winners and losers'? Its a betrayal of what makes humankind special in the animal kingdom, to simply behave like animals who compete for prey, when its convenient to justify something we know to be morally wrong. Like assigning some qualitative analysis to racial or genetic 'fitness' in order to justify draconian proposals on social policy and spending. Government and governance cannot exist to demonstrate a more ruthless Nature in the age of thermonuclear and biological weapons. It must exist to demonstrate an emergent, more enlightened Nature, more aware of itself and it's fragility in the vast ocean of time and space.
3
As a mixed-race half Asian, my life has spanned the transition from degenerate exotic to model minority. I was the only Asian in my elementary school and took flack for it every day, nicknamed "communist"; a would-be bully called me "half breed" openly to peer laughter. It cut deeply and formed my identity back then.
Once I was in college, everything changed, to the point that I completely lost any self-consciousness about my Asian appearance. That to me signifies huge progress, but it also shows how dynamic the concept of race can be. I do not regret the way I was treated, it is part of who I am. I only hope it has increased my empathy.
217
Very interesting read. While I sympathize with the writer's dilemma, the article seems to imply that there was and is some kind of coordinated conspiracy to create the myths associated with Asians as well as other racial and cultural groups. No doubt racial animus has contributed to the creation of such myths, but it seems more likely that cultural traits are assigned through ethno-centric ignorance which collectively develops into a stereotype which perpetuate the myths. And stereotypes develop within in all cultures, not just in the dominant demographic culture even if not all of its members are ethno-centrically ignorant. Sorry if this sounds a bit wonky and impersonal, but strictly as a sociological phenomenon, the existence of myths and stereotypes don't ever die or magically disappear because they do in fact exist and will forever be an indelible part of history as is racial animus. People of good will should denounce them for what they are and do their part to promote a culture and society of tolerance, equality and non-discrimination, including legal protections. And while racial animus and systematic discrimination should be universally condemned in the strongest terms, conspiracy theories about the origin of stereotypes only contribute to a mystification of a universal sociological phenomenon born of ignorance rather than coordinated racial animus.
4
Base prejudice may be born of ignorance; "coordinated racial animus" is just a synonym for a racial supremacy movement like white nationalism. This article is not about about the former, but the latter.
2
Ethnic prejudice hurts me, and I always turn away from expressions of such prejudice no matter where they may come from. A discussion of prejudice is critically important at times, but such a discussion need not use the expressions of prejudice or at least people who may be hurt by the expressions need to be warned so they may be excused.
I am hurt by expressions of prejudice, so I immediately turned away.
4
My good God.... This entire generation has become 'the Boy in the Plastic Bubble'!
Except, in this story, instead of the poor boy being trapped alone in the plastic bubble, he walks around demanding that the rest of the world, where soever he goes, be wrapped in plastic & sanitized, first.
Oh no. Did I now just misgender you as well? This is shaping up to be a very difficult day for you indeed.
Perhaps instead of expecting the world to post myriad warnings for you, everywhere you go along the way - maybe you could just hang a big WARNING sign on the inside of your own front door? This way, every time you go out you can be reminded...
*Warning: entering the world - you may be offended!
17
This makes no sense, Nancy. If you immediately turn away from any resource, no matter its origin, that merely mentions an ethnic stereotype or quotes the use of an ethnic slur, you will cut yourself off from a great deal of learning. I highly recommend that you take off your blinders and allow yourself to read things that disturb you.
9
What a load of tosh. I'm amazed to what depths the NYT has fallen, publishing nonsense like this. What data is this based on? A few postings? How large was your sample? How can you possibly know whether or not subgroups of men of all political ideologies date Asian women?
I am quite sure leftist men date Asian women at the same or higher rate than rightist men, based on my experience and observations, but I have no data to support such an assertion. Then to throw in the term "fetish" - pop psychology run amok.
The author should check out LA, Irvine, SF Bay Area, and other west coast urban areas. You will find that everyone dates everyone. The NYT is truly losing its mind.
308
I suspect this reactionary has never asked Asians about their experience in a white society. I say this because he completely misses Lim's point about how stereotypes affect the lives and self image of those who feel targeted by them. Instead, he reacts from the narrow lens of his politics.
138
She never said that left-wing white men don't date Asian women. She just focused on white supremacists who date Asian women because their behavior seems contradictory - how can you promote "racial purity" if you date women of a different race? - and she wanted to explore the implications of this contradiction. By, contrast, liberals don't believe in "racial purity," so there's nothing contradictory about liberal men being in interracial relationships.
571
So there’s a problem with your thinking. It assumes that this piece unfairly accuses alt-right and far-right men of having an Asian fetish.
This is a problem because the people you defend have no problem stating that black men who are in relationships with white women or for that matter Asian men in relationships with white women should be beaten, killed or at the very least ostracized. Likewise their progeny should be ostracized if not killed. This is almost always the call-sign of a white supremacist.
So when the same alt-right luminaries say they want their very own ethno-state and dramatic racial hygiene policies and staunchly racist law - they still want Asian women as sex objects. It seems a bit hypocritical. No?
39
If this is really a class war going on and Republicans are firing the first salvos by landing Trump in the executive office, then the length of this domestic war could extend for decades. Assuming Trump is a one term wonder, Republicans are aligned to fight the battle for the long term with a clearly defined position. The outcome of increased Chinese immigration over that future period of time, should mobilize the Asian vote as one to be reckoned with, along with Hispanics, who might be emboldened to make some points, assuming the message is clearly defined. I am making the assumption that Republicans will alienate both Chinese and Hispanics, and other important immigrant bases.
5
Thanks. It was a good read. The factors that affect people's attraction to mates, lovers or just sex partners are not entirely rational. A lot of it is biologically intrinsic, some of it is social exposure, and probably the most impactful is the immediate moment or environment, in other words who/what is available to someone.
However, over time and over large population samples one can derive correlations and patterns. While those patterns do exist, it is important to recognize those are not the only data points in the sample. In others words, some guys might end up with an Asian woman due to circumstance - they were medical residents working long hours and she had the right attitude and he had the right attitude in each other's opinion, and they just hit it off from then on. Or it could be she wanted a Green Card and he was looking for a partner since he looks "ugly" or scarred and the White women he wants to be with would not give him a second look, she marries him and has kids and is happy with the life she has and ...
Life is complicated and not always pretty. To end on a light note, from Seinfeld, "But is it racist if I LIKE their kind?" :-)
16
@Suppan
Are you trying to rationalize the percentage of caucasian-asian pairings in the white nationalist culture by declaring 'a lot of it' biologically intrinsic (and also situationally-oriented?) Otherwise, I fail to see the point of your contradictory comment.
8
A very thoughtful interesting piece. I am sorry for all of the complicated stereotypes Asians, especially Asian women, are subjected to.
82
Ms. Lim named some neo-Nazis (let's call them what they really are) who have Asian women as prized partners. Had they been around a few generations earlier they would no doubt have promoted or supported the Chinese Exclusion Act. How do they now reconcile their racism with their Asian fetish?
Maybe they are taking a leaf out of the book of South African Apartheid. When the government found that Apartheid laws were an impediment to trading with Japan, its elegantly simple solution was to declare visiting Japanese business people to be "honorary whites".
220
...How do they now reconcile their racism with their Asian fetish?
The white race (10 % of the world's population) is faced with dying out, due to inbreeding, the sun getting hotter, and diseases that only a few people get.
Racism/white supremacy has to change with the times in order to exist; otherwise it would become obsolete in 20 years, barely remembered history in 40 years and consigned to history books in 60 years. Hence, marryong and having relationships with Asian women, who would have been treated as prostitutes, or put in internment camps 70 years ago.
Also white people don't like anyone who outscores them in tests (like the SAT), works harder or saves more money than they do. So if you can't beat them, join them and hope they don't call in your national debt.
1
They know no history. They're an-historical ignoramuses.
5
Maybe because the white women they know have argued with them and told them they were Neo-Nazi nuts, and the ones who did not were not attractive to them. Maybe they found Asian women who, for whatever reason, do not challenge their believes and go along and get along with them while being attractive enough to them.
1
Very insightful. I was unaware of the affinity of alt-right men for Asian women. I would be interested to hear your views on the perspective of alt-right white women toward their competition.
177
"competition"??
What makes you think that women are slavering for alt-right men? Anyway, from the gender mix in the Charlottesville 'march', women are little seen.
15
And whether alt-right men have any propensity at all to allow any women to be more than sexual partners and/or assistants. That is, do sexism and racism go together in this movement, in order to posit only white males as supreme? I think it probably is exactly that, the "me first" ethos as a cult.
6
Excellent point. I often look at KKK women and wondering what the heck they are thinking, shocked that they are even there. But your point about the numbers is really helpful in putting it in perspective. Thank you.
3
My "barometer" is Merry Christmas and I am an atheist. When people say Merry Christmas to me, I feel included. So I never understood the "cultural war". My problem has always been people don't say Merry Christmas to me. They say it to the one before me and the one after me. Of course I align myself with Judeo-Christian values. I didn't come to this country for Sharia law. Otherwise, I would have gone to Saudi Arabia. Unlike people born to this country, I made the decision to come here and I call this great nation on Earth my only home. Of course I want to defend my home even if it might be sounded that I was the last person in line.
I am proud of my heritage and I believe this country needs more people like us. Even for illegals just landed in Chinatown, their dream is still to move to white suburbs one day and send their kids to Harvard. We believe American dream and upward mobility through hard work and education. In fact, education is all we can rely on to advance in this society. And what is wrong with that?
51
A 58 year old American, I spent the first half of my adult life in the US, and the second half in Asia. I returned “home” in time to vote for Bernie in the primary, and Jill Stein in the general election, and I consider mysef a feminist by most definitions I’ve read. I wonder if my preference for Asian women and my longing to be back amongst them makes me an exception? Not everything is about politics.
12
I think the difference here is that your predilection is not the same as the hypocrisy of these alt-right fools who go marching in the streets babbling about white supremacy by torchlight.
13
guess the US assumption is that 'Asian' means East Asian - i.e. of Chinese or similar appearance ?
in the UK 'Asian' usually means 'of the Indian subcontinent' - i.e. of Indian or similar appearance.
Being a Caucasian male myself, with an East Asian partner over a quarter century, I admire their upbringing for hard work with filial respect - seems more honorable and reasonable than some other 'forget your parent' individual cultures.
Downside can be focus on family responsibility while ignoring civic responsibility - my partner regularly sends me snaps of a nearby street rubbish bin with household rubbish bags neatly placed beside it by - East Asians. Their assumption - my house is clean - dump it outside - not my problem anymore. Offensive to westerners.
So - love their family responsibility - abhor their lack of civic concern. That's something they can learn from the West.
47
Do all East Asians lack a sense of civic responsibilities?
5
Since she knows who placed the rubbish bags there well enough to know their ethnicity, perhaps she could have a conversation with them, one person to another, about where the rubbish bags go? Or would that be a bridge too far?
1
As an observation you are right about Asians (I am from India originally and I include Indians in this as Asians and speak more from that experience.) There is a lot less civic sense in India than in the West. It is not that there are absolutely no civic-minded people, there are many, but it is that the culture and the vast majority are disinclined to accept the small sacrifices and adjustments needed to have more civic health.
As someone who has given this some thought I would add - this problem existed in the West too. London, New York, Paris, etc have been famously filthy and messy cities, even while they had beautiful palaces, museums, parks and playgrounds for the wealthy. What changed was leadership - from the selfis, "how can I make a buck out of this and keep the other guy down" zero-sum thinking, they went to "I love how clean my palace is, but when I look at the rubbish on the street it makes me feel I live in a dump" mindset.
Realizing that the very people who clean and manicure their palaces and gardens are the ones living in squalor they invested in the common people and built a middle class not just in income but in quality of life, making their nations greater in the process. There were folks against it, but the good guys prevailed.
Right now people in India and elsewhere (Lat. Am., Africa, etc...) still relish being able to ride in a/c cars through the rabble and filth and feel great. When they realize they are 3rd World millionaires, that will change.
4
I immediately stopped at "yellow fever." I am sorry but I cannot bear using Asian stereotypes to depict attitudes about Asians. I will not read an essay about "fever" of any color, thinking the term only hurtful.
62
That's an extreme attitude that might be needlessly precluding you from doing some important reading. It's possible to disagree with a writer's word choice and still explore that writer's main points, which might be of great value. You could then express your displeasure with the word to the writer and other readers afterward, which seems to me a more valuable and open exchange of ideas.
194
It's not *using* the stereotype, it's *about* the stereotype.
107
Interesting piece, that I can vibe with. It made me remember the expression "You can be British and luuuuurve a curry but hate an Indian" ('oi! abdul where's ma curry then!"). Being in China I see this attitude manifest all too often by men who have many female partners but no male Chinese friends...
22