If 10% of stops resulted in finding someone doing something wrong, and this was during the height of “stop and frisk”, you must agree that people doing something wrong must have gone up, we just cannot do anything about it. If you are doing something wrong and are in a “Hands-off, don’t check!” category of some sort, you can perpetrate with greater freedom; your furtive movements won’t get you stopped (not worth the hassle), stay out of “high crime” areas to perpetrate, etc.
Know the categories that make what you are doing wrong “Hands off, don’t check!” and you’ll be fine.
2
America needs to have an adult conversation about police enforcement. Unfortunately, politically correct ideology prevents this. Regardless, police enforcement in America is an amazing success, except for the black population. When non blacks police blacks, blacks cry discrimination. The only remaining solution is for all black policing of the black population. It has come to this. There is no reasonable alternative.
2
All black policing of the black population sounds good, but white people don't want to give up those cushy civil service jobs to which they feel entitled. In my city I look at the names of the officers on the police department and they're the sons the guys I went to high school with who didn't go to college and became cops or firefighters. I call this "white affirmative action"---nepotism, favoritism, and political patronage. These are good jobs with good benefits and good pensions, especially for those who didn't grind out four years of higher education and the student loans that came with them. Another thing---black men who become cops become cops first and black second. They're under pressure not to appear to be giving their black brothers and sisters breaks, even though white cops show favoritism to whites all the time. My son lived in Memphis for a while and spent time on Beale Street, and he said the black cops were tougher on black people than white cops were. The police chief in Boston wants to hire black cops for neighborhoods like Roxbury and Dorchester, but he's stymied by the adoration of veterans who get preferences in hiring. That translates into a white veteran from Maine who's never been around black people patrolling in Boston's minority communities. Blacks cry discrimination because there IS discrimination, and it's often blatant.
4
The flaw is there will always be regression to a racial bias, you just must regress enough.
A black FBI agent who arrests a black perpetration, who gets a black jury, a black judge, a black lawyer and is convicted and sentenced by black letter law, would still be the victim of bias.
This was the rationale for 44's pardon https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons or commutation https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-commutations of felons who had mandatory sentences
The mandatory sentencing was biased in that it disproportionately affected POC, the poor, etc. https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2017/01/17/president-obama-has...
44 showed mercy as an “extraordinary remedy” because “reforms needed to ensure over the long run that our criminal justice system operates more fairly” are not in place. https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2017/01/17/president-obama-has...
1
Police Departments, as well as the
FBI & the CIA, need to stop treating
African, Latino & Native Americans
as if they're the "Enemy" in their
own homeland.
The people of the land have used
oppression, and exercised robbery,
and have vexed the poor and
needy: yes, they have oppressed
the stranger wrongfully.
God is against those who have
taken gifts to shed blood; who
have taken usury and increase,
and have greedily gained of their
neighbors by extortion, and have
forgotten me, saith the Lord God.
He's looking for men and women
who make up a hedge, and stand
the gap before him for the land,
that it should not be destroyed,
because of corruption and un-
righteousness emanating from
the government to the pulpit.
(Ezekiel: Chapter 22)
2
I was once was standing at a bus stop in Miami and noticed that someone had scrawled "Cops Lie" in small letters on a trash barrel.
Truer words were never written.
4
The stop and frisk program is a preventive attempt by the police to reduce the disproportional large black an Latino prison population in US prisons !
We ought to be thankful for them.
3
Do tell. And exactly how was that supposed to work?
2
It’s reassuring that police chiefs are instituting these reforms. Recognizing unconscious bias is one thing, but a recent 60 Minutes segment suggested a more pernicious faction that must be acknowledged and dealt with. In an interview with reformed white supremicist and NeoNazi, Christian Piccolini who now works to reform others, Piccolini said the movement works to get their members on police forces. How can and do police departments screen against such recruits?
2
The sheep dislike and distrust the sheep-dog until the wolf shows up. Rein in those sheep-dogs the wolves will be eternally grateful.
3
We are not Sheep.
In every civilized Democratic Country and even some Communist ones Cops DO NOT Have the Authority and power they do in the US and they are much more accountable to the Public Authorities. Also they and the Military are the only ones that do not have Unions to muddy the civilian control.
2
Dov - "We are not Sheep."
Sorry Dov it's called a metaphor! "A figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable."
"Much more accountable to the Public Authorities" - Really Dov, police in the United States report to the chief of police or civilian director who reports to the mayor and town council. They are regulated by town, county, state and federal regulations and laws all under the Constitution of the United States.
If more regulations are needed it would be the civilians in charge to increase the regulations and those civilians in charge are called politicians.
2
The sheep dislike and distrust the sheep dogs when some of the sheep dogs forget that they work for the sheep and the head of the sheep dog benevolent association blames the sheep every time a sheep dog kills one of them.
2
Little will change with police stops and accountability until the qualified immunity that they enjoy is strictly limited. As it stands, police routinely - and with full knowledge - violate citizens rights because they know they'll face no repercussions. Put a cop in jail every time they violate the constitution (which they swore to uphold) and this nonsense will end.
17
Increasingly, police aren’t responsible for judgement, logic or restraint.
NYPD officer Liang murdered Mr. Akai Gurley in a stairwell. They don’t need a reason, just shoot to kill. Rinse and repeat.
6
P.O. Liang accidentally fired his pistol into a darkened stairwell, after which the bullet ricocheted multiple times before hitting Gurley.
A horrible tragedy, which P.O. Liang paid dearly for, but to characterize it as an intentional act is simply dishonest.
6
The victim paid dearly. The killer simply lost his job.
Also, why would he even have his weapon out?
You’re an apologist.
When was the last time a member of NYT's editorial board put their own life in jeopardy in order to protect the life of even one complete stranger? Cops do that every day, so don't bash them until you have walked in their shoes.
5
I'm a 10 year Army veteran and come from a cop family. My service to country does not make me perfect nor should it shield me from criticism. The same should be true for cops. Also the assumption that "if you haven't done it then you can't understand it" is simply asinine. Most oncologists have never been cancer victims - does that mean they shouldn't treat patients? Most professional sports coaches never played professionally - should they be fired? I could go on and on with examples. Pointing out abuses of power by police officers is not "bashing them"! By that logic criticizing the actions of Lee Harvey Oswald or Tim Mcveigh is "bashing" veterans!
3
Using that as logic they would have virtually no restraint at all. They are not an occupying force, they *must* be subject to civilian oversight.
5
You totally missed the point of this article. Couldn't see beyond the "criticism", could you?
4
Our nation grows old and fascist. It is happening at every level and among all people. Most people don't operate based on factual input. They are in various types of cults. There are no perfect answers in rational approaches, just the best answers. Belief in magic things doesn't bring about a just merit based society. Of course, most don't really want a merit based society, they want favoritism for their cult.
5
Its nice to see the Constitution now being upheld 71 percent of the time in NYC. What a shame that some officers still dont feel like respecting our fundamental rights. It sure would be swell if theyd all file their paperwork correctly and follow proper procedure and not harass people. Or is that just asking too much?
3
Unfortunately, sociopaths have no consciences, so they project no guilt or fear of discovery when they are confronted. They act like innocent people. But they lie to conceal facts which might indicate that they have done something illegal. In neighborhoods where people have been safe from fear of criminals who live among them, other citizens will bear witness to their illegal acts. But the criminals who live in some neighborhoods intimidate citizens from bearing witness to their crimes, both because the citizens are afraid of retaliation and because they know the criminals and don’t feel free to report them to police. So before declaring victory for the hands off policing in neighborhoods where crime has been high, wait. There might be more going on than is being measured.
4
What is not mentioned here is that Roe v Wade is a contributor to the drop in crime rate. There are many factors, of course, but crime rates began to fall about 15 yrs after RvW. Think about it, unwanted, unloved, and unsupervised children (especially boys) are far more likely to become criminals.
9
The concept of 'police' has deep structural problems. Once upon a time there were no police, only bailiffs and possibly the night watch - a volunteer organization much like the fire department. Bailiffs act upon a warrant issued by a court to seize persons or property. The police are a recent invention, and they have been given the power to act without warrant. Forget about reform. The correct solution is to disband the police as they are currently constituted, and reconstitute some form of warranted enforcement agency. Currently we have police forces which act like micro standing militias. They attract a disproportionate number of sociopathic thugs who enjoy harassing and hurting people. Above all, the police operate with the completely mistaken idea that they have a standing warrant to escalate to whatever level of force, including murder, needed to coerce citizens to comply with their arbitrary orders. It is an illogical and deeply flawed system. Why do we accept it?
7
Why do we accept it?
Because we are all far safer now than in the days of bailiffs and volunteer vigilante groups. Who would want to go back to the days of the Wild West and the Gangs of New York?
2
There is no increase in safety. I know a rural New Hampshire town with 2,000 people. Ten years ago there were two part-time cops and no crime.
Now there are seven full-timers armed with military weapons and vehicles from Homeland Security. Still no crime.
1
Why do we accept it?
The volunteer organization sounds better, but then you would write about how they are like "standing militias".
Let's see, crime spikes one night, the volunteers heed the call to arms, find the perps and then dispatch them. It might work after all!
1
Walter Scott ran away from an officer who shot him in the back anyway in Charleston, SC. Scott posed no threat, yet did the officer deem Scott's flight as a "furtive movement"? Recently, a cop snarled at a bystander during an arrest not to record it, perhaps to protect himself from his actions from going viral on social media. Citizens are free to use their cell phones, to make and take calls and texts, and to take photos and record as they please. This is still America, even if rogue cops don't think so.
5
There's a way to fix all of this. Allow investigations and prosecutions only in proportion to a minority's population.
If there are 100 murders in a city then only, for example, 14 of suspects, those arrested or convicted can be African-American. This is in proportion to the African American population of the US. 56 of the suspects, those arrested or convicted would have to be white. No more African American could be considered suspects after the limit of 14 is reached for those 100 murders. There would also, for example, be 5% Asian-American suspects required.
Yes there are some details and logistics to work out in terms of geographical areas covered and access to running totals of suspects and convictions but we can do it.
This would apply to all crimes from murder to armed robbery to speeding to spitting on the sidewalk.
Deal?
2
I hope you arent serious. There are indeed some logistical problems to work out....
Imagine if youre black, and 14 black men have already been arrested. I guess youre free to kill whomever you like and steal whatever you want? Sounds like a great idea for a comedy.
2
S. Russell: I think you just described the scenario Jp and other commenters here would like to create.
1
Sam Russell's second paragraph describes today's liberals' ideal agenda.
1
Reasonable people will disagree about whether "stop and frisk" is good policing or bad. What is not debatable is that our incipient police state is a threat to the republic.
A democracy is always temporary, given human nature and the nature of the system. A democracy will continue to exist until voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury; the loose fiscal policy brings inevitable collapse and dictatorship. The average lifespan of a democracy is 200 years. The life-cycle sequence: bondage to spiritual faith to great courage to liberty to abundance to complacency to apathy to dependence and back into bondage.
We seem to be entering the "back into bondage" stage. The old KGB answered to and served the interests of the Communist Party, not any system of law. Is the FBI of Mueller, McCabe, Comey and Strzok that answers to and serves the interests of the Deep-State kleptocratic conspiracy of Obama-Clinton Ds & never-Trump Rs, America's KGB?
This is the question that should be keeping The Editorial Board and the rest of the so-called intelligentsia up at night.
1
"Reasonable people will disagree about whether "stop and frisk" is good policing or bad. " Given that it is unconstitutional I don't think there is much room for discussion.
3
Vicki,
The court did not rule that stop and frisk as a policing tactic is unconstitutional, but that the way the NYPD had conducted stops and frisks, w/o reasonable suspicion of criminal activity and often on the basis of a person’s race, was unconstitutional.
2
Stops for reasonable cause is the issue? Are you serious? We all just watched a video where a cop executed a guy with his hands up, sobbing begging not to be killed and then said cop got off, no problems. Our police system is broken. There are no “good cops” because the good cops are never willing to say anything against the bad cops. In any other profession if you find out your colleague is into something unscrupulous and you don’t say anything you can guarantee you will be on the hook for what you didn’t report. Not the cops, even now with body cameras the police with the backing of the justice system just hide the video. And to top it all off, we have a President who openly condoned police brutality. This problem is never, ever going away. To reform stop and frisk is akin to saving the Titanic with a spoon and some tape.
24
nice that the editorial board finds room for praise for nypd, "clearly headed in the right direction"...the specifics are indeed impressive (adding body cams, de-indexing stops, education on frisking, etc.).
there is no doubt that any agency or institution (including the nyt, yes?) faces continued challenges to improve...after all, with reform comes illumination and discovery of more to do.
why not adjust the tone of the editorial to point out the need for CONTINUED diligence in reform, rather to illuminate and educate toward remediation of biases, as opposed to the summary "get rid of"...in support of officers who do not "need to be convinced" as much as they need to be trained (a combination of clarifying definitions/regulations, reasonable suspicion, for example, and ensuring sufficient practice in basic and continued training)...in other words, re-habituation, AND persistent oversight... especially challenging if habits/biases are "often unconscious"
the board might contribute constructive suggestions instead of simply admonishing...so easy to wag a finger, "the department must..."
the former stop and frisk policy, recounted for no purpose, was indeed out of control but that does not mean that all of it or all officers who "stopped" were, nor does it mean that the subsequent decrease in crime was proof of "how unnceesay this episode was"...a more cogent comparison of then and now would show how adjustments were framed, necessitating, not "forcing" change.
2
So, uh, who's writing these headlines? "Reforms Rein In Police Harassment; Now More Is Needed." More harassment? That's what it sounds like. As a matter of grammar, "more" should properly refer to "reforms," but it cannot. "Reforms" is plural; the headline should read, "Now More Are Needed." On the other hand, more police harassment goes right along with the Attorney General's pronouncement that there is no problem in jailing the poor.
10
Given the lofty tone of this piece, it seems necessary to point out that there are still neighborhoods in the five boroughs that are rightfully known among law enforcement, and residents, as high crime areas. That they are not neighborhoods where the Editorial Board spends much time is glaringly apparent.
There are plenty of overly aggressive cops out there. I am personally acquainted with a few. But the majority of these men and women are performing a thankless and necessary service to a society that holds them all in contempt, regardless of personal record or behavior. The serve a culture within which they are routinely demonized by people who will never have to risk a potentially violent confrontation to protect their own communities, and who know nothing of patrolling a nation flooded with guns in which fantasies of murdering police officers are constantly celebrated in popular entertainment.
The police take on a tremendous responsibility, and their first task is to strengthen and preserve public trust. Some are guilty of betraying that trust. But fear breeds fear, and contempt breeds contempt. Perhaps the constant crises between law enforcement and the citizenry would be diminished if we learned to see them as fellow human beings who are tasked with addressing the most traumatic and destructive of human behaviors, so that we don’t have to, rather than as an unruly, uniformed rabble who exist only to do our dirty work and absorb our condemnation in a social vacuum.
8
But the majority of these men and women are performing a thankless and necessary service to a society that holds them all in contempt, regardless of personal record or behavior. "
It's not a service, it's a job. They get paid to do it and many of them get paid very well. Despite this, it's hard to imagine a bigger group of whiners and complainers. Many of them treat citizens like farm animals. So quit crying about being underappreciated. If you want unconditional love, get a dog.
4
It is an attitude. The difference between passively watching for trouble and actively looking for trouble. When the police are watching for trouble they may see it and act accordingly. When they are looking for trouble they will surely find it, whether it exists or not. Our police should not be actively looking for trouble. It is the wrong attitude for public service.
10
When we realized that the education offered students varied dramatically by county and state, national standards were imposed in an attempt to address the issue. Perhaps the same approach might be considered for law enforcement which also seems to vary wiidely by locality. Nationals standards could pro-actively establish norms for policing and establish expectations of approprate procedures.
2
Only with a maturation of our society to where police no longer stereotype minorities as potential criminals and current dangers will start to ameliorate the problem.
Periodic psychological tests to root out that segment of the police who see their jobs as a power position and abuse their power would help.
Even idealistic young officers freshly trained in conflict resolution and de-escalation often develop the we/they mentality where cops are on one side of an unbridgeable divide and civilians are on the other as the police increasingly encounter civilians primarily in the capacity of criminals. It is easy to get cynical and view this as a we/they war where maximum force is the first resort rather than the last.
Living in a concealed-carry state where gun deaths are rising steadily, I can see that, whether the armed person is a cop or civilian, having that power (the gun, billy club, or taser) creates in many a strong desire to use that power whenever opportunity gives them an excuse. Power calls out to be used.
4
Here's a solution: Why not set aside a fund for all of the police-related settlements the City has to make. If there is excess money in the fund at the end of the year, 50% should be paid to police officers as a bonus, and 50% returned to the tax payers. Right now there are weak sticks to get police to do the right thing, but no real carrots.
According to the Comptroller's Annual Claims Report, "Claims against the NYPD that settled in FY 2016 cost the City $279.7 million..." Had half of that been returned to the NYPD's 56,000 employees, it would have been a $2,500 bonus each.
7
That should work wonders for the quality of life in many high crime neighborhoods.
1
You look only at department procedures. What about out-of-control cops? Other papers are reporting behavior in New Jersey by a cop that should have gotten him fired. Sgt. Craig Lynch accidentally recorded himself threatening to grossly abuse his authority and that there was nothing that could be done about it.
5
I am in total agreement with the underlying ideas stated in the editorial. In fact, I would like to suggest an expansion of the ideas stated thus fold :
1. No longer can the editorial state staff print articles/opinions with out first running the information gathered by a outside court appointed panel. They cannot be in anyway connected to the field of journalism.
2. The sources must also be identified as well as the intellectual basis of why a certain topic was chosen. This would help to prevent political/religious/ethnic/ or personal bias to affect the opinions stated. The public would thus best served with untainted information.
3. Each and every idea or plan of action on the part of Mr, Zimroth shall be under the careful scrutiny of an outside civilian panel .
4. Mr. Zimroth will agree to periodic scheduled as well as be available for unannounced reviews and interviews by a panel of individuals from a field as much removed from what he does as is possible from what he does on a daily basis. All his notes, are to be available as well.
In all seriousness,it is plain to see that the best approach is to learn to work togetherBut then again
“For those who understand no explanation is necessary. For those who don’t, none will suffice”
LT JENNIFER ASKER - retired after 30 + years in law enforcement
11
War is too dangerous to be left to the generals (and beat cops).
2
@DornDiego: Right, kind of how LBJ managed the Vietnam War. (Yet his fans still want to blame it in the generals. )
1
My neighbor policemen whom are both nice guys and Trumpies and think I’m one of them always tell me “Nod nod wink wink” stories.
Yup more work is needed.
9
Why don’t you point that out to them rather than telling tales when they’re unable to defend themselves?
2
Defend themselves from what? I'm home not in Terra Incognita
1
Thank you for this editorial
Many thanks
3
Excessive stop and frisk operations are not only fueled by explicit and implicit biases of black and brown residents, but an analysis of the results of the stops prove that blacks are no more likely to have weapons or criminal intent than the white residents that are stopped during these stop and frisk operations. These pretext stops and frisks can be triggered by clothing, hair styles, skin color, phones, pagers, jewelry, calmness, nervousness, the way you walk, talk, look, or a policeman's hunch, etc., which rarely, if ever, meets the burden of proving probable cause. These violations of a resident's fourth amendment rights are no longer protected by the courts (Supreme Court ruled in favor of these searches), and citizens are powerless to prevent or take cause against these stops. And if a policeman stops you, don't resist, make a sudden move, or attempt to stand your ground even though you haven't done anything wrong, possess any type of weapon, or have any criminal intent. Just spread eagle, or lay flat on the ground, or lean on the fence, and follow his/her commands. And when they find nothing on your person to incriminate you, they discard you like a cigarette butt. This operation was not designed to build trust and cooperation between the police and community, but to keep black and brown people in their place.
17
Well said.
All too many of our 4th Amendment rights have been "disappeared" thanks to the decline of liberalism in the US and racist and abusive police practices such as "stop and frisk" have flourished.
"Stop and Frisk," like many of the other euphemisms meant to hide human rights violations, is both a term and a practice that should be entirely abandoned.
Good for New York for making a start. Now the goal should be to institutionalize respect for what should be everyone's constitutional right to be secure in their persons and safe from police assault, in absence of reasonable, demonstrable cause to suspect that that they committed a crime.
Walking while black or brown is decidedly *not* such a reasonable, demonstrable cause.
5
Big-city police officers, in this or any other country, face challenges and dangers few of us can appreciate. In high-crime areas, especially, they encounter a population who frequently regard them as occupiers rather than protectors. Much of this hostility stems from the militarization of police tactics in recent years, the rest from the inherent risks of interacting with people whose life experiences discourage trust in anyone. These problems breed fear and suspicion in the officers, themselves, who often find it hard to treat the residents as citizens whom they have a commitment to protect.
While both groups must help to change this climate of mistrust, only the police have the power and resources to initiate the process. Tactics such as stop and frisk embody all the elements that create such a toxic relationship. Treating an individual as suspicious without any substantiating evidence humiliates and angers him, without making the streets any safer. The practice also potentially endangers officers, who may face retaliation.
Treating the residents of poor areas with respect entails a certain risk, because the hatred generated by decades of abuse will not disappear quickly. But our entire system of justice, with its assumption of innocence until proven guilty, incorporates the acceptance of a certain degree of risk. In any case, abusing the rights of citizens will not enhance the safety of police officers or the city.
14
Abuse of stop and frisk was obviously random. As crime dropped in the city police felt that the system was working so they continued at a higher pace. Now gentrification has taking over and crime has dropped to lows not seen since the 50’s.
Sounds like a model Chicago could use.
3
I suspect the crime drop has less to do with gentrification and more to do with the information technology revolution that has so permeated human existence across the globe and in places where crime is declining while not also undergoing gentrification.
The old practice of human beings seeking and establishing face to face contact in group settings sometimes led to thrill seeking, mischief making, misunderstanding, violence and exploitation. The jostling nature of the inevitable group stratification process could often spur jealousy, competition, dominance seeking, bullying, feuding and all manner of protocriminal impulse.
Both the predictable and deliberately randomized dopamine hits people get from the sirens of social media transfix and transform them into a perpetual state of want for cyber approval and novel digital experiences. There is no time or motivation for real human relationship - with all of its attendant risks and rewards.
It is science fiction realized.
Suppose a security guard in a store often confronted certain types of customers, demanding to see into their bags and that they empty their pockets. Suppose he even detained some until police arrived, claiming he observed "furtive movements". Suppose almost all were found to not be shoplifting.
Would the store be expected to dicipline such an over-zealous guard, as my daughter described her employer doing to another guard when she worked as one? How would the customers react?
A uniform is not a license to be a bully. Police should hold themselves to a higher standard, as should we all.
10
Independent's comment that "Most other cities don't have stop and frisk. Why not stop the program altogether" demonstrates a common misconception of what stop and frisk really is. Independent's ignorance is shared by many others, including the new media.
"Stop, Question and Frisk" (SQF) is a legal tool available to police officers, nationwide, know as a "Terry Stop." It is not a program! SQF was first passed by the New York State Legislature in 1964, and later upheld by the United States Supreme Court. SQF's aw's primary intention was and still is police officer safety.
As a former high-ranking member of the NYCPD, I was always critical of using this valuable tool as a program. I knew that problems would arise once police officers were put under pressure to turn in more SQF reports to make their bosses look good. Thankfully, the tactic has ended.
Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water by attacking the law. Instead, hold the abusers of the law accountable.
.
2
There will always be something objectionable, from the human rights' point of view, in the behavior of City Police forces, as long as they recruit mercenary gunslingers, poorly trained in the use of arms and self-control. The cases of poor self-control have been extensively reported in the press. But when one reads about, and sees the results of, the number of gunshots fired in various events, one perceives the extremely poor training in target shooting under combat conditions.
With another article in NYT where it quotes Jeff Sessions, our current AG asking the courts to "Go ahead, Jail People Because They're Poor", the circumstances, that led to the harassment of the young Black and Latino boys and girls in NYC and other towns and cities of the 50 states of this country through "stop n' frisk" policy, make it more candor.
Actually, that is a total shame in a great country of ours where our founders wrote our Constitution in bold gold colors with ten of all our citizens' rights spelled very clearly in a set, under "Bill of Rights".
But what our later presidents and the lawmakers did after soon after ?
They trampled on almost on all of our Rights given under the Constitution and imposed harsh sentences for no reason only on the Negros and the Indians whose land our settlers stole violently and allowed the White settlers' families and their descendants go totally Scott free even if their crimes amounted to murders and capitulations of the slaves working under them and the Native Americans.
So for Jeff Sessions to rule, that our courts jail our poor minority people for not being able to pay their fines and his orders earlier that the cops to stop our Black and minority citizens and frisked them for no reason other than,"for walking Black or Latino" or for being minority citizens, is totally reprehensible.
Really, no matter how many reforms we do to stop "stop n' frisk", our minorities will suffer no matter what.
And that really is a damn shame!
7
So there’s still a need to convince cops, who work the same street assignments every day; respond to the same troubled families, conditions and locations; learn in almost daily contacts, who offenders, violent gang members, brawlers, drunks and mentally ill and other ‘public threats’ are.... that they still can’t spot any of the above without some ‘risk of racial biases’? Then again, I recall a time when crime was up, cops were criticized for ‘letting it happen’; crime way down; cops still citiicized, this time for the converse. Damned if you do......
8
Fine for New York, what about elsewhere?
5
In my Department, a SO in central WA, we are so busy going from call to call all shift long. Oversight of law enforcement is critical. I wear my body camera and use it to document every public contact. I welcome the body camera.
15
As a parent of children growing in New York City ,the scariest thing for them and us was the idea of an encounter with the police, I remember talking to my son at the beginning of his independence taking subway by himself, I remember telling him to be careful about all the bad characters out there, he responded that for him the scariest thing was to be arrested by the police and the violence associated with it.
What has to be reformed is the leadership, those officers just comply with orders from the top, the culture of violence around the police is well known, there is not a week without front page of the papers covering police brutality , Rickers being the flagship, i lost confidence with the police long time ago, I am glad that there is a police, but I am worry for the children ending up in jail for over a year for stealing a backpack and a record for life affecting their work , lodging, only because an officer have made a mistake.
21
It would be great if Mr. Trump used a few billion of his dollars to put on a world class training-educational event, modeled on the highly successful Apprentice Reality Television Show, just for rank-and-file NYPD. No one else can do it.
Mr. Trump can afford to hire the entire NYPD to protect his extended family,
and their real estate investments around the world, when if he leaves office.
3
Is is possible that the police stop people because they see that as their job, and that they want to do their job, and they want to be recognized for doing it.
I wonder what would happen if there was a different definition of what a police officers job was, one that included positive interactions with the public, and for which the officers would receive appropriate recognition for doing this.
I like to think this would increase the positive interactions, and better relations between the police and public.
3
As minorities leave NYC, racist street stops diminish. But in the close-in
Jersey suburbs with growing minority populations the trend is the opposite. Not much progress here.
9
@Michjas: "Not much progress there."
NYC "progress" is having minorities leave the jurisdiction?
1
Maybe it's the criminals that need to be reformed, not the the police.
Just a thought.
14
Crossing Overhead, under our system of justice, only someone convicted of a crime qualifies as a criminal. Individuals encountered on the street by police officers do not meet that standard. Calling even an arrested person a criminal prejudices the entire judicial process.
1
You assume that those who are frisked are criminals.
1
Most other cities don't have stop and frisk.
Why not stop the program altogether.
12
Crime went down dramatically after the misbegotten Giuliani "stop and frisk" laws were thrown out.
Statistics show, for example, that when you look at white, black, and Hispanic citizens stopped and frisked, whites tend to be more likely to have illegal drugs. But, under Giuliani, virtually all stop and frisks were done on non-white citizens.
When black software developer associate of mine turned from employee to consultant and tripled his income, he celebrated by buying a low-end silver BMW 320i. During his first 30 days of commuting up the New Jersey Turnpike from Princeton to Manhattan, he was pulled over 31 times by NJSP and subjected to degrading searches, sometimes being flex-cuffed and stuffed in the back of the patrol car while inquiries were made and his car was thoroughly searched. His taillights were routinely broken with billyclubs to give the cops a justification for the traffic stop. He was drowning in tickets. He finally had to give up the BMW and buy a Toyota Corolla. He was never stopped again. Ironically, he said that the black cops were the worst, as if they had to prove their we/they status to their white fellow officers.
1
I am confused about the title of this editorial, specifically about the second phrase using the third person singular form of the verb "to be." Are you suggesting that more reforms are needed? Or are you suggesting that more reform is needed? Or are you suggesting more police harassment is needed?
5
No police "reform" regarding harassment can meaningfully rein in the presumed guilty while black in America presumption that denied the humanity of enslaved Africans in America while "freeing" them to be separate and unequal in America. Bigotry finds a way to hide.
With 5% of humanity America's 2.3 million prisoners are 25% of Planet Earth's incarcerated. And while only 13% of Americans have black Africans roots 40% of America's prisoners are black like Ben Carson because blacks are criminally persecuted for doing the same things while black that whites do without any criminal justice consequences.
Police should be arresting career and organized and violent persons to protect people and to deter crime. Without regard to gender, color aka race, ethnicity, national origin, faith, education and socioeconomic status. Drugs should be legalized, taxed and controlled as a potential human health abuse problem akin to alcohol and tobacco. While non-violent personal and property crimes and criminals should be fundamentally addressed by better socioeconomics, education, housing and mental/physical healthcare. Prison should focus more on rehabilitation and reform than punishment and condemnation.
36
Here are the FBI crime statistics by race for 2012, which was by no means an aberrant year in terms of crime:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/...
It's true, as you say, that blacks make up 13% of the US population and yet 40% of those incarcerated within the US. But as you can see from the above link, blacks also committed 49.4% of the murders, 32.5% of the forcible rapes, 54.9% of the robberies, 34.1% of aggravated assaults, 30.8% of the burglaries, etc. So, just eyeballing it, the high incarceration rate of blacks in this country seems to have more to do with actual crime than a racist justice system.
4
The solution is not hard. The police should treat people the way they would want to be treated or their sons and nephews treated. Confront and search people when they are actually doing something suspicious, not for wearing a hoodie or hanging out. Don’t use a minor violation like jay walking or riding a bike on the sidewalk as an excuse to bum rush someone and strip them in public. Young Black or Latino men who were not engaged in any negative activity should not be hounded and searched, and the prosecuted for marijuana possession or New York’s extremely vague switchblade laws (virtually anything an officer can fling open, no matter how ridiculous the effort, can be deemed a switchblade in NYC,) when their White counterparts actually have to do something before the laws searches them.
Prosecutors and judges need to throw out cases that arise from radicalized searches until the police get the message.
36
Might the drop in crime have more to do with the gentrification of most of NYC pushing out those who have less of a stake in civil peace? This global analysis needs closer analysis in order to discover the true reasons for the drop in violent crime rates. I suspect it to be unrelated to any of Mayor DeBlasio’s efforts.
23
I wish I could sue you. Your reply indicates bigotry so deeply held in this country that it is considered by many to be a social cancer. People like you have to be convinced that all human beings are equal. Your perceived disgust with those who are less economically successful is a sin against mankind.
1
@Edward P Smith: Good liberals tell us that a root cause of crime is poverty. As a neighborhood becomes less impoverished crime should decrease. There's no "social cancer" in that thinking.
2
A necessary report on progress of the police department in maintaining law and order, a difficult, and at times dangerous, job. Some claim that perhaps we are asking policemen to solve social issues beyond their ability or duty. Perhaps. But abuses of power remain and require monitoring, while the police force is being educated and sensitized to use force only when necessary and to avoid falling in the traps of what remains a racialized society, and the prejudices it entails. Justice must be blind to it.
17
I foresee that if we ever start getting rational about gun control, it will need to start by gun rights activists taking a leap of faith that additional regulation will be manageable in its impact on rights. However, if the first claim by gun control activists after that happens is “Now more is needed”, I suspect that not only won’t we go any further, but that the gains so laboriously achieved will be reversed very quickly. This is what comes to my mind as we consider policing.
NYC Police Commissioner James O’Neill had precious little choice but to embrace judicial rulings over which he has no control, or much influence. Yet, after the dramatic drawdown of “stop, question and frisk” actions, and in the teeth of generally lowered crime statistics for New York City, most visibly those of murders, violent crime continues to be intense in its poorest neighborhoods of color, precisely where so many stops once were performed. While heat-maps of crime showing less-to-more safety year-over-year show solid “safer” evolution in much of the city, NYC’s poorest communities of color show decidedly “less safe” realities – and the measurements are current, not years old (https://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Harlem-New_York/5131/crime/).
The department’s initiatives are good ones, and should have been implemented before the perception of abuse became entrenched and tempers vitriolic.
7
The absence of those judicial rulings and Mayor de Blasio’s decision not to appeal them might have continued to provide cops with an important tool on their belts to control violent crime in New York’s most violent communities, that suffer so disproportionately from violent crime – and, with those initiatives implemented years ago, made the tool far more palatable.
I’m not quite sure what reaction the street cop will have to this NYT editorial, but I suspect it won’t be obviously positive. However, whether they like it or not, the truth remains that dramatically diminished stops are the law and they’re charged with enforcing it – regardless of its inability to help stanch rising crime rates in NYC’s poorest neighborhoods.
3
The issue with the referenced map is that if you examine it in detail, the "hot" areas (high crime) are actually areas which are predominantly entertainment districts. The larger number of bars, and night-life in these areas will always show an increase of crime over primarily residential area. This kind of crime does not often reflect on residents, or on casual visitors who don't attend these venues. I suspect that these kinds of venues will show up as more crime in any city or town,
13
Don't get it:
You didn't get it: The spots in Harlem, Jackson Heights and elsewhere are not "entertainment districts" but densely congested residential areas. The people who went to the trouble of compiling the study are national real estate/rental people, and their intent was to inform residential renters.
1
The Don is a stop and frisk man
Is for it whenever he can
His Arpaio pardon
Is Trump neo-modern
Maltreatment is on what he ran.
23
All well said from a safely tucked away location.
1