I am an old baby boomer but if I were a millenial or the parents of young children, I would move out of the United States. Under a system of predatory capitalism, the young will be footing the bill for supporting the !% forever. I would rather pay high taxes to support the country's infrastructure, education, climate change policies and environmental protections. One notices when one visits a country like Norway or Germany that there is a completely different ethos and psychological atmosphere. People are happier, more altruistic, more committed to society's well being. These counties are less violent because of gun laws too. The US is becoming a failed state.
244
I hold two values in my mind that I believe represent the ambivalence many people confront when they consider the possibilities of democratic socialism in America. One value is that we should build a strong, well funded social service infrastructure within which all Americans can access essential public services, housing, and health care. If I thought my own children would always have a safety net in their lives, even if they fell upon the worst of times, I would gladly contribute the majority of my annual salary to support such a system. At the same time, however, I have worked incredibly hard to shore-up my own private resources for such a possibility. I have worked long hours and multiple jobs, forgone vacations, and scrimped and saved so that I could build my own private safety net so that my kids, one of whom has a disability, might have something to fall back on if they come upon hard times in this selfish, ruthless capitalistic America we now have. What I am not willing to do is give up that private wealth for a promise, or even a temporary period of dispersed resources, only to find, at the end of my life, my hard-earned savings has been dispersed, and we are right back in the dog-eat-dog capitalist system I had prepared for. In order to get buy-in from people like me, people who believe in Democratic Socialism but fear being ripped off by it, too, there would need to be a promise of permanent change, and promises are suspect in this nation now more than ever.
60
This is a generation that is allowing itself to be robbed by its refusal to participate responsibly in the democratic electoral process. In the previous election (as in all elections), Millennials registered at lower levels and voted at lower levels than any other demographic. Their self-absorption and self-centered approach manifests itself in their refusal to show up to vote in elections when their preferred candidates are not standing. It's like having to show up to vote and get a migraine whereas not showing up guarantees cancer down the road. Millenials are consisting opting for the down the road cancer and this tax bill is exactly that price for not showing up to vote. You would hope that they would learn something from this, buy whining on social media and marching in the streets seems to be there preferred method of avoiding the cancer of Republican rule.
39
Today's conservatives break my heart. If they read the Bible beyond passages that they believe urge them to hate gays above all, they'd know that as they treat the least of Americans, so they treat Jesus.
42
“Those who don’t remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
36
We need to impose term limits on Congress. It would rectify a lot of our problems.
40
Two words the US plutocracy forgets at their own peril:
French Revolution.
85
The author of this article, just like the millenials she writes about, has absolutely no clue what socialism is or what it means for the people who have to live in a socialist country.
Just in case there’s any confusion, we’re not talking about Scandinavian countries, which are capitalist countries with strong safety nets.
I strongly encourage these young people, who have not lived in country calling itself a “socialist republic”, and who stubbornly refuse to read about not-so-distant history, to take five year stints in places that might enlighten them, such as North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam and Venezuela (after giving up US citizenship).
For those looking for strong non-capitalist thrills, forget about debates in the US; try a few very special years the Cuban or North Korean gulag.
23
I am still using, every day, a purse I bought 3 years ago, on sale, for $28. It is the perfect purse for my needs, I have been very happy with it, so I don't envy the woman who is willing to buy several purses for thousands of dollars each. I think she is stupid and greedy to believe she deserves a tax cut while thinking that a homeless woman with children, living in a car, is a bum who doesn't deserve any help, or to ask for vouchers to send her children to private school while watching the public school's budget be cut. People get sick, people die, plants close, people work several jobs and still can't get ahead. They live on the edge, just one fuel pump or rent rise from disaster. Capitalism is almost the same as serfdom when not closely regulated. In many cases the lords and the serfs own their positions merely by luck, not by brilliance or laziness. No system will continue to work if it is top heavy. If people are questioning capitalism, we may be at the tipping point.
98
"Orrin Hatch ... argued that Congress still hasn’t reauthorized CHIP, which he helped create and still claims to support, because 'we don’t have money anymore'. He went on to rant against the poor: 'I have a rough time wanting to spend [billions] of dollars to help people who won’t help themselves — won’t lift a finger — and expect the federal government to do everything'.”
I am disappointed in Sen Hatch's turn to heartlessness. I remember when prez Reagan wanted to cut a program for the poor, Hatch railed against it. Ever since I admired Hatch. I wonder what happened to him.
It may have been a contagious disease that infected all the Republicans since prez Obama completed 2 terms, & left unscathed, though Obama must share the responsibility with Bush2 for the agony of Iraq & Syria, for his inaction. With the rise of Tea Party Republicans turned callous; non-callous ones left the party, became inactive.
30
We need to update the alleged quote by the Gilded Age oligarch Jay Gould: I can hire half of America to kill the other half.
The new quote that seems to capture DeVose-Prince-Koch's plans for 99% of America: We can hire half of America to jail and guard the other half.
39
No accounting for millennials' ignorance. Half of them don't know who won the "Civil War".
23
If millenials have been indoctrinated in their expensive, socialist-led colleges, about the benefits of a socialist society, they have lots of options available to them. They could join a monastery. They can form a collective. They can organize a kibbutz. Voluntary socialism is a wonderful thing; we should all wish them well.
If they’re concerned about inequality, they can, collectively, stay out of jail, graduate from high school, refrain from drugs, and not make babies out of wedlock.
If they want higher wages, they should support sending every single illegal home, and closing the borders to unskilled immigrants.
They SHOULD, however, be taught that nothing is ever free. If they want more governmental services, THEY will have to pay for them and not seek to foist the bills off onto others. That’s how socialism “works”. Everyone pulls his own weight, and no one rides for free.
If they’re worried about education for their kids, support vouchers, which cuts costs and increase freedom. If they’re worried about deficits – and they should be – demand lower federal spending and the repeal of boondoggles like the ACA.
There is a certain macabre satisfaction in demanding that we “eat the rich”. But to paraphrase Pogo, “we have met the rich, and they is us”. The only thing socialists ever do is ensure universal poverty. Perhaps a field trip to Venezuela or Cuba might help these clueless kids. (Although, alas, it didn’t seem to help DeBlasio.)
19
The revolution is coming, the Republicans and the entitled elites will reap the whirlwind. That is, of course, if we the people are allowed to vote....
22
Great column, Ms. Goldberg. Thanks.
20
(A short visit with the GOP 2, curtain rises.)
Congressman (seated at dining table): A great meal, dear!
Wife: Thank you, here’s your coffee. Now could you tell me more about these Donors you keep talking about?
C: Certainly! The Donors are the true leaders of our nation, those who have climbed the mountain of capitalism & succeeded beyond all imagination, & are thus most fit to lead us. Their success just proves they are the best & brightest & have the best ideas about how we should live. Their brilliance is in taking everything they do to the limits of competitive capitalism so no one can compete with them! And their lobby friends are so helpful in telling us how to please them … many times we just let their lobby friends write the legislation for us. I mean, we don’t know anything about it & don’t really care. It makes my job easier. We are so lucky to work for them & they even give us huge donations to help us get re-elected!
W: I never knew people could be so nice! They are so generous after having worked so hard for their money. It’s amazing that people could work to attain such wealth!
C: Oh, well, many were just born rich & pay smarter people to think for them, but more about the Donors and their plan for America another time.
(Curtain closes… To be continued.)
21
Where did you find Goldberg?
Great writer!
14
Members of the anti-Communist Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation who are worried about 44% of millennials' preferring socialism over capitalism should spend less on monuments and more on dictionaries.
13
Louise Linton, Steven Mnuchin, et al., might consider how things ended up for Czar Nicholas and his family. The rich have bought into the "natural order" narrative once again. History shows there is no such thing.
45
Great American Con I
In 2003 the Republicans under Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld invades Iraq and bills the American taxpayer $5 trillion dollars for the Weapons of Mass Destruction lie. The military complex consisting of Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon etc. all cash in. The US treasury is raided.
Great American Con II
2008/9 The Republicans are in office and the regulators are looking the other way. Wall Street in cahoots with the mortgage industry pushes America to the brink of economic collapse marketing subprime mortgages. The country avoids another 1929 Great Depression because of a $750 billion bailout from the Federal Reserve. The US treasury is raided again.
Great American Con III
2017 Tax Reform Con. As a result of corporations like the Koch brothers funding the campaigns for the Republicans to recapture the White House and Senate, a bill has come due in the form of a tax cut. The tax cut is so huge at over 40% the corporate executives are likely orgasmic that Congress is so close to passing the bill. It’s the price you pay when you sell your soul to the devil. When Obama wanted a trillion dollars for an infrastructure jobs bill the Republicans said no, it would increase the deficit. The tax reform bill will increase the deficit by over $1.5 trillion dollars, yet there are no cries by the Republicans about the bill adding to the deficit. The US treasury will be raided yet again.
As Al Pacino said in the movie “Heat”: “These guys are good”.
48
In Canada we have three major parties, Conservative, Liberal and the New Democrat Party which is as close to socialist as you can come.
It works well as rampant capitalism is held in check by the two left leaning parties...i think you guys need a third party as a honest broker, between the two you have now.
45
Belief in high personal responsibility and high personal freedom refutes nearly everything in this article.
Maybe you don't want or like those 2 things. But tens of millions of American do.
Hence GOP runs 2/3 of America.....not the Land of Welfare....but the Land of Opportunity.
10
Nicely analyzed. Capitalism, especially when unregulated, is as bad if not worse that communism, an impossible dream for the majority of people under it's thumb. Promises unfulfilled; the persistent enrichment of the wealthy by exploiting the poor; the buying of elections in this pseudo-democratic society has become the norm, depressing enough to make voters stay at home for previously cooked results...even before Gerrymandering. And now comes an arrogant hypocrite Orrin Hatch (and Chuck Grassley is not far behind) insulting the poor for not lifting a finger for their own benefit? How could they dare drive the conversation into the toilet, when it is a public secret that the poor have no political say (money) whatsoever to get out of their invisible status of despair? Republican depravity is no different than vulgar Trump's ugliness of disregard towards anyone but himself. What's would be wrong with a social democracy, where our strength is measured not by the fat pigs up there but by the least among us? What's wrong with sharing the pie more equitably? Has solidarity, and prudence, and decency, lost it's meaning among us, at a time when license has replaced freedom, and justice just an afterthought?
25
I beat the drum about this frequently in these comments sections, but Michelle's quotes from our delightful oligarchs have me pounding it again.
These people are not just capitalists--their words indicate they are super capitalist Calvinist/Social Darwinists, and that's where the real problem lies.
Calvinism, you may recall, was an austere offshoot of the Protestant Reformation that opined that one is judged worthy of Heaven--one is a member of the Elect--through evidence of God's smiling providence here on earth. In effect, if one is successful here on earth, if one is prosperous and materially blessed, then obviously one has been favored by God. And if one is not prosperous/materially blessed, one is obviously NOT favored by God. The logical extension of that is the poor do not deserve charity or compassion, as they are not worthy of heaven anyway. If they were, they'd be rich, or so the circular thinking goes.
It's not hard to see how this leads to the mentality among our "Elect" of
"if you're so smart, why aren't you rich"; "if you're not rich, it's your own fault---you're lazy/stupid/inferior, and why should I give up anything of mine for you", etc. And it's really easy to characterize anyone of a particular race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nationality, etc., as unworthy.
It is interesting that the many of the countries in which this philosophy originated--Switzerland, the Nordics--pretty much rejected it, and became more "socialist" in time.
37
So you hate the new tax bill because it gives too big a tax break to the rich.
Or because it increases the taxes for the rich by taking away their high state tax deduction.
Or because it raises the flow of their money into charities you don't like.
Or because it will reduce the tax receipts to charities you do like.
Or because they will get to hold onto more of the money they earn, thus "robbing" you of money you say should be yours.
Let's face it. What you really hate is that Ivanka is tall and beautiful and smart and successful, and you're not. At least, not yet. But comes the revolution, and you'll get to feed without limit in the public trough, which is what Marx and Lenin and Stalin and Ceaceuscu got to do.
6
Millennials are generation Girlboss, Y combinator and Startup Nation. They also are far more likely than Gen X to say women should stay home and men should make the decisions (as reported in NYT)
What exactly is telling you they are anti-capitalism as a generation?
6
Entitled millennial whiners indeed.
Believing that they're entitled to an affordable education just because they're good in school. Believing that they're entitled to employment just because they're qualified and willing to work hard and they want to pay off their student debt. Believing that their entitled to a government that's responsive to everyone's needs. Believing that women, people of color, and sexual minorities are entitled to be treated as human. Believing that they're entitled to a livable planet.
What a bunch of whiners.
As a boomer, I have to say I love millennials. Entitled? Much less than Gen X, or even us. I trust millennials to work through this Socialist thing and reach some synthesis much better than what we've managed to construct (I mean, have you seen our current government?) Can they make it manifest? We can only hope.
31
The millenials may not like capitalism. But what is clearly happening is the division between the haves and have nots is being widened and cemented in place. But that creates a problem because it also creates a much larger lower class. A lower class that will certainly get to see their stairway out of the cellar has been permanently cut off. Job's? So when the anger rises from below, Republicans redirect that anger to the other cellar dwellers. Clearly their supporters have agreed. They would rather give their money to the wealthy who don't share rather to their co-residents in the cellar. How is what Grassley and Hatch said any different from "Mexicans are thieves and rapists" ? But I have news for those white, arrogant cellar dwellers. When you kick the others in your bottom tier, eventually they will get angry. And kick back. Trump said it so eloquently. When you have nothing left to lose, you have nothing to lose. And they can clearly see who is not on their side. And remember Trump supporters. The door out of the basement is being locked. You will reap what you sow.
19
It's all so grotesque. But the Trump states will reelect scores of their malicious Republicans.
8
Another good one. I like how you linked the selfish statements. I haven’t seen that anywhere else.
5
Perhaps milleneils might consider voting in off year elections.
15
They sure worship Steve jobs. Uber capitalist.
6
"A joke on the streets of Moscow these days: 'Everything the Communists told us about communism was a complete and utter lie. Unfortunately, everything the Communists told us about capitalism turned out to be true.' " -John Nellis, World Bank
24
Its always easy to spend other's people money ! Having said that, I believe our way of capitalism serves too few people, All the riches go to the few people. For an average Joe, healthcare cost is out of whack, college costs a leg and in 20 years or so when they retire, SS fund is depleted.
10
So, who won the debate.
6
Call the GOP tax bill for what it is and don't mince words: It is a financial rape of the middle and working class by the rich.
And they're getting away with it.
15
Wow, 900 people showed up for a debate in Manhattan.
In Manhattan, you could get 1,900 people to show up for a Jerry Lewis movie -- in French.
6
I suppose it's natural that with a capitalist system run by goons, some look favorably on socialism. And with a socialist system run by goons, some look favorably on capitalism. Both systems seem to have channels for goons to rise to the top.
6
Wall Street/The 1% are the biggest “welfare queens” in history.
Inherit a few million. Hire a capable investment manager. Write a few checks to buy the law. Sit back and enjoy.
Hearing these people whine about “hard work“ and “frugality” is disgusting.
THEY are ticks on society. Parasites.
: ) L
23
Democracy has been long dead in this country. We are a Corporate Fascistic society today. Something we have yet to recognize or admit.
25
Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are doing more to enthuse people for communism than Che Guevara could ever hope.
14
I guess you don't have such a great regard for Jeff Flake anymore, seeing as how he voted for it.
5
I read this article (based on the headline) hoping to learn something. It is just a rant about the tax bill. Not sure why the teaser about the debate when it never returns to that opening. The comments are more valuable and interesting.
4
Dear Michelle. How about a couple of columns dragging James McGill Buchanan out into the light and highlighting his connections with this mess...especially with Charles Koch? Time to bring the discussion out of the confusion of details and down to the starkly understandable fundamentals.
4
I can't wait for this generation to wither from the vine. This group of entitled white men continues to rear its ugly head destroying everything. When will they be gone? And why and how do they continue to have so much power? It's time for the millenials to replace them. I'm looking forward to some new ideas before the last guttering gasp of these corrupt and corrosive men takes us all down with them.
14
Millenials need to get out and vote!! Don't let your cynicism, or your disappointment about Bernie, blind you to the fact that yes, Republicans and Democrats are different animals.
18
Now let me understand this..... the Confederates actually did win the Civil War.
4
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate powers."- Benito Mussolini
14
Alexander Harrison understands Ms. Goldberg's motive in appealing to the young to further her career,--"Je vous ai compris Madame,"but to ask milennials, who know more about their SMARTPHONES than they do about economic and political history is hopeless. Example comes to mind of Sanders's backer when asked by t.v. reporter to define socialism, scratched his head and replied,l "boy that's a tough 1. Hope no one at home is watching. Likewise for "Antifa's" who, if asked to identify Gabriele d'Annunzio, true father of fascism,"would be stumped, or if asked how Huey P. Long's "share the wealth" populism or that of Pierre Poujade differed from fascism, would be unable to answer.Human nature being what it is, those who say they hate capitalism have never been tempted."Cogito ergo sum" wrote AH's role model, Rene Descartes, and it is indisputable that no one has ever been offered a jpb by a poor man or woman.Lack of appreciation of economic theory and political history is today universal. Once said to a French woman that I knew followers, former Vichyites, followers of Marechal Petain. Interlocutor, flummoxed, asked if "hero of Verdun" was leader of a rock group.1 does not find bookishness among millennials,regardless of country. French schools have even eliminated circonflex accent because students, especially those of immigrant parents whose first language is not English, find it unnecessarily confusing.How many in the audience had heard of Adam Smith or David Ricardo?
3
“What we have achieved in this country is socialism for the rich and free enterprise for the poor.” Gore Vidal
"The CEO/management class is empirically shown to have 400% more psychopaths than would be encountered in a random crowd of Americans on the sidewalk." The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson
18
I wish they would start voting and running for office. I am tired of old white men running things with their tired old ways.
8
Ah, the old joke: Capitalism has finally defeated Communism!!! And now it can make a run at Democracy!!!
6
Communism as its name directly indicates....promotes communal living. Thats an old-time hippie ideal. The hippies spawned the millenials. Hippies, living off the fat of the land as Boomers, morphed into Yuppies.....The first batch of thier offspring, we called "hipsters".....then as more and more came of age.....Millenials....the pioneers of a Networked Society, hypnotized by omnipresent instant communication with the entire world, packaged as "individual", but in reality, controlled by Central Scrutinizer software(Google, Facebook, LinkdIn, etc).
The Internet in the hippie utopia is "Free", and "private", and "individual"...........but the start reality is more like China.........a very effective tool of monitoring behavior and controlling thoughts. Flash Mobs. Thought Crimes. PRISM. Database Hacking. Traffic Cams on every street corner. George Orwell couldnt have called it more accurately.
China is still a communist society.
The USA has deluded itself into believing "China wants democracy and capitalism". We dont recognize that Capitalism and Communism are both relics of a Past Age.....
.Capitalism is geared towards a rapacious exploitation of an unregulated resource...the Internet.
While Communism is geared to using the Internet to control the masses..
Neither ideology is prepared for the 21st Century.
9
Hey, let's checkout Venezuela as a possible alternative.
4
It isn't capitalism. It is fascism. Made even worse by suckers in a so-called democracy who have fallen for the "culture war" mentality and voted for people who are robbing them blind. All in exchange for a stinking hat.
10
Dear Writer,
Descent from a capitalist way of thinking is not unique to your generation - ask any proto-hipster of GenX, suspicion of Capitalism was born in the 1980s and fueled more than one strain of the punk era. Crowing your generation as “unique” is short sighted and roundly inaccurate.
2
There is no capitalism in the US. The system has a name, it is fascism. Society run for the benefit of an unelected oligarchy, justified by appeals to the racial interests of the Volk.
11
Grassley and Hatch are talking to you Trump voter...do you agree with them?
3
I hate these Republicans crooks. Their evil greed is hard to fathom. It's time for a socialist revolution; hopefully of the peaceful political kind. Capitalism, as it exists today, is a malevolent force for the destruction of the social fabric of America.
Cake anyone?
8
Michelle Goldberg is again demonstrating her shallow knowledge of what her forebears do and do not believe and what they have believed in the past. But this is how she makes her living: When she isn't chasing clicks and media appearances by being the first to call for someone's resignation, she's busy blaming all that happens to her on the older generations.
Michelle, I bet you never went to a rally where they threw a brick and then a firebomb through the Bank of America window? Or had a large contingent of Maoists complete with red books? How about a protest over the killing of Che Guevara?
You don't know jack about what older people believe about capitalism, and as far as I can tell, when you need to have that knowledge for your latest column, you just make stuff up.
No wonder you get on TV for calling for Al Franken's resignation and then pretend that you're more mature and thoughtful and nuanced than all your supporters and compatriots by saying you think "Zero Tolerance" needs to be rethought. Your tactics are identical to those of Rush Limbaugh, and reflect zero ideals and a desire to hop on anything out there to benefit yourself.
The New York Times can do much better than wholesale hiring of bloggers off of Salon and The Guardian, and it shows.
9
OK, you 44% millenials who would prefer to live under a socialist structure, here's your chance: don't whine, VOTE.
7
There is so much that is hateable about this article - but first and foremost the writer desperately needs some education about history.
5
Disgust for these hypocritical, old (white men) is all I can feel. Within 2 to 3 months I expect to be seeing references to "welfare queens" again.
2
White supremacy and capitalism have doomed planet earth--the latter being a particularly idiotic economic concept, mindlessly imposing infinite growth on a finite world.
7
Let us remember that before the Soviet Union turned into Josef Stalin's personal killing filed in the 30s and 40s, many in America were sympathetic to communism, then thought of, by them, as a fairer way of doing business. This was occasioned by the stock market's failure in 1929 (not capitalism's) which led to the Great Depression. Today, after the Recession of 2008, also caused by a massively deregulated Wall Street, many conflate capitalism with a plutocracy. And hence the Social Contract has been breached. Too many benefits flowing toward the rich and too few to the poor and working masses.The NY Times just showed how a couple earning $100,000 per year barely qualifies as middle class. And so we are arriving at the doorstep of class warfare, to be followed by recriminations, witch hunts and further political dysfunction. The GOP has been disorganized for quite a while, but they just pulled off a tax bill which will lead to a significant reduction in social security, Medicare, Medicaid and delays in the funding of infrastructure, hospitals, schools, airports, water supply systems, electrical grid and cell phone towers. We are about to repeat the history of the 1920s and 1930s.
14
Anyone who knows the most rudimentary history, economics and human behavior and is not blinded by an ignorant ideology has long realized that a careful blend of "capitalist" and "socialist" policies is necessary for a relatively prosperous, well-functioning society. laissez-faire and deregulation has never worked.
18
"Capitalism sows the seeds of its own destruction."
8
Ms Goldberg -- regarding your comment: "Nowhere is that clearer than in the wretched tax bill passed by the Senate in the early hours of Saturday morning, which would make the rich richer and the poor poorer. According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, the bill directs the largest tax cuts as a share of income to the top 5 percent of taxpayers."
Wretched? News flash -- to benefit from a cut in taxes, one has to pay taxes. We already have the Earned Income Tax Credit that gives low earners other people's money.
It's not the government's money. There is nothing objectively wrong with allowing individuals to keep their own money. People who earn pay the bill for the remainder of the population. To wit:
- In 2014, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.3 percent of all individual income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.7 percent.
- The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.1 percent).
- The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 27.1 percent individual income tax rate, which is more than seven times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.5 percent).
These may be inconvenient facts, but they are facts nonetheless.
https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2016-up...
4
In these evil and distressing times under Trump's administration I have some optimism that the younger generations will save our country once my generation is gone (I'm in my 70s). The young are less racist, less homophobic, less greedy and less intolerant of other religions. I just wish I could live to see America become America again and see the young not be afraid to borrow the best ideas from other countries even if they are labeled socialists.
9
Senator Chuck Grassley, what a fine, fine example of leadership. Thank goodness he's not in charge of a boy or girl scout troop . . . or worse, a school teacher.
4
Someone ought to require senators and congressmen and women to read Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal." Why don't we just fatten the babies and then butcher them? That way we wouldn't have to support them or their parents, who'd make a pretty profit off their slaughtered children. For God's sake, who are these people who are supposedly representing us?
12
I wonder how much the tickets sold for for this anti-capitalist event.
Bitter taste of irony.
1
A government can take so much corruption before there is a popular backlash. Who really owns government? The GOP say them and their donors do. There will be a swing to the left and it should be paid for by a ‘deficit tax’ on the supper rich raising the tax rate to 80% until the deficit returns to 2017 levels.
It happened in Germany in 1933 and in the USA in 2016, Hitler came to power with a race based ideology defining who could be a true German, He was financed by German industrialists and mine owners who hated labor unions, a class of young army officers, and plenty of Americans in Wall Street, and companies like Ford, GM, DuPont, IBM, Chase Bank because they all believed they could control Hitler and profit. Capitalism trumped patriotism during WW2, e.g., when Henry Ford, who published the periodical “The International Jew” demanded that the US bombers not bomb Ford’s factories which were making war materials for Hitler,
The essence of Nazism was high taxes on Germans, long hours for workers and no civil rights because the Reichtag made Hitler and absolute dictator and when he had all the laws he needed he had it burnt to the ground. In less than 3 years Hitler, like Trump systematically reduced the to serfs.
Our country is divided into 3 groups:(1) a powerless majority which is only heard on election day (3) garden verity fascists: and (3) American Nazis, who control the executive branch and is systematically destroying American values and the rule of law.
12
Did you vote?
3
Rather than a purely socialist or capitalist system a fairer arrangement is one we used to effectively have, a hybrid where hard work was respected, even if in wage earning jobs, but the opportunity existed for those with entrepreneurial spirit to pursue their fortunes. But that utopian deal went south when corporations and other moneyed interests were allowed to skew the system with their cash to gain more favorable treatment of their interests. So now we have one party (GOP) that apparently has zero regard for regular workers' economic interests and does everything possible to please their corporate and "small business" donors. The real questions are how did we let it our capitalism get this warped and what do we do about it?
7
Socialism needs a new name to remove the stigma of the past. Efficiency in numbers
Group Deals
Something so the ignorant uneducated understand the concept that we will all get better education, health care and quality of life in general if we pool our money and resources.
4
I'm an older white woman, and I can plainly see how capitalism has mutated into a monster that preys on consumers.
While "elections have consequences", those consequences are generally accepted to be some modest changes, not total destruction and looting.
11
I'm nearly 70 and hate kapitalism, too. Does that make me a millennial? Or does one's lying or having a cellphone do it?
3
Remarquable article! A peaceful revolution might be the only way out of that obcene mess.
4
Can anybody give us directions to the US equivalent to the St. Petersburg Winter Palace? We want to pay it a visit . . .
3
What we are seeing is the restoration of ante-bellum southern morality featuring adulation of rich plantation owners, paternalistic and racist Christianity, and disdain for working class people.
Lincoln's civil war was a battle of corporate interests vs southern agrarianism. It appears that today's southerners have adopted corporatism and fused it with their own narrow cultural biases.
Welcome to the nation ruled by Banana Republicans.
6
The 44% of millennials who want to live in a Socialist country should get their noses out of Facebook, Instagram, etc. for a few minutes and read about Venezuela. Food shortages, electrical blackouts, lack of medicine,...
Misery.
When done with that start in on North Korea. Regular North Koreans are sent to work as slave laborers on infrastructure projects in Russia and China. The workers get paid nothing. The Russian and Chinese governments pay the "wages" directly to the North Korean government so they can build missiles while the people starve.
Be careful what you wish for.
5
I'd be curious to see how those millennial stats break down in terms of race and class. The anti-capitalist youth seem largely white, middle-class, and educated.
2
The millennials, boys and girls, their parents, grandparents believed in Bernie. However, here's how the baby boomer generation were misled. Highly paid consultants of Hillary's campaign, "Rosen and Reinish repeatedly attacked Sanders in the media and online. In October 2015, Rosen wrote an op-ed for The Washington Post savaging Sanders on LGBTQ rights. In January 2016, she gave an interview with the Post in which she criticized Sanders’ record on women’s rights. In April, she characterized his supporters as sexist bullies on CNN. After Sanders endorsed Wasserman Schultz’s own primary opponent, Rosen called the senator “a petty jerk” in an email with DNC communications director Luis Miranda."
5
Forget the tax deal. Look around you. See any good paying jobs with amazing benefits? A home of your own? A salary on which to live comfortably with enough left over to save for retirement? A family that you can support? A coastal city to settle in that won't be flooded? Walt and June are both dead. Wally and the Beav are retired in Florida and Eddie Haskell is in the White House. I'm old and glad of it!
10
My father died in 2001, before the estate taxes were relaxed to today's rate. He was a (very) small business man, and a freewheeling investor. His estate approached the one million mark, briefly, before cancer drove up costs then cost him his life. Six months later I wrote the biggest check I've ever seen, for $98,900.
This was the tax levied on his final estate, valued at under $700k.. Today the first $5.5-$11 million are exempted.
My family is considered wealthy by some of my friends. With his 1-man business my brother clears @ $50k.
My similar salary won't fund a 1 bedroom apartment near my office. I drive a 9 yr old car. And I don't think raising my taxes or endangering my Social Security are a good idea. I wonder how many people in my modest boat really do.
3
The article starts with a premise that Millennials are more in favor of Socialism and Communism and less in favor of Capitalism than other groups of Americans such as boomers. It provides some substantiation for this citing some opinion surveys. Then it veers off the topic by conflating Capitalism with the specific tax policies by the current administration. One does not need to be anti-capitalist to have concerns about changes in tax policies or even those policies and tax laws that are currently in place.
I would be very interested in what Millennials and other demographic groups think about the roles of: private property rights, access to capital for private use (such as starting businesses or buying homes), regulatory burdens (and benefits) to starting and growing businesses.
Would the Internet and the information services that we are using right now have been able to be created and evolve in a controlled communistic economy? I doubt it, but significant parts of the Internet were created and grown by efforts of individuals and companies and organizations from Nordic and European countries with much stronger social safety nets (and that are frequently referred to as more Socialist). However, as far as I know even the most Socialist of European democracies subscribe to the core tenets of a capitalist economic model.
4
Many Russians who have very few means are nevertheless very proud of the name that Russia has in the world. The status of a country counts with men and women everywhere.
As democrats complain about the loss of income and health for the poorer people, it's important to understand that glory, name, dominance comes from funding the rich. The private schools, private satellites, private spaceships, private scientific research are making America greater.
Many Americans will therefore feel a swell of pride at all that America is becoming thanks to the billionaires. They may be poorer, miserable, and live shorter lives. But to many, like many Trump followers, the price will be worth it.
1
I think this tax bill is not just a gift to the filthy rich. Conversely, it is, at its core, an attack on "American dream" of upward social mobility. We have known this concept to be under attack in our country for decades (compared to more egalitarian Western European nations) but this tax bill is just another huge step toward decimating any trace of upward mobility we had. As a country, hasn't US prided itself on being a merit-based society where the ablest and the smartest, the most hardworking had a decent shot at significantly improving their station in life? With public school funding now dwindling, publicly subsidized healthcare for children of low-income families being ripped away and their parents' incomes going down thanks to this tax bill, where will our best and brightest be 10, 20, 30 years from now? And what does that mean for the economic future of our country?
5
I'm in my 40s. That makes me a Gen-Xer.
I've worked hard. I've done all the 'right things.' I've achieved an upper middle class income after years of struggle to get there. I'm genuinely 'comfortable' - yet far from 'rich.' And you know what? I'd trade this system that's moving toward more pure greed, untamed capitalism and potentially even oligarchy in a heartbeat for something more far more socialist.
Even the upper middle class feel like we're only a medical problem, family death, or unfortunate circumstance away from complete poverty.
This way of doing things is no longer worth it. It's inhuman and will unravel -- as opposed to contribute to the growth and development of -- society.
13
Let's be clear, the Tax Scam Bill may be written by Republicans and their proxies in Goldman Sachs and hedge fund offices but Democrats also receive a large handout from these upper 1%.
Capitalism, the oligarchs who run and support the system will not rest until they take away every benefit that adds to their personal tax burden. There is no "us" here. If you think hard enough it is the rich that are the takers. They produce very little that trickles down to the larger economy.
This will not end until the entire country is bankrupt. And that will happen soon enough once this Tax Scam Bill is fully implemted. The poor will rise up once they see their meager benefits eliminated.
"sorry we have no money" will be a slogan that will doom the country. And it will be up to millennials and us old folk to rise up, tear apart the capitalist system and create equitable, meaningful society.
No time to lose. No time to be reactive. Everyone must resist the passage of the Bill in order to preserve what little is left of America.
5
Time for capitalism to go . Young folks don’t like the stench of it. All empires end. With Trump at the helm, it is quite fitting to bid adieu .
7
Look, there's one solution. Vote.
If you don't vote, you can't complain (although I don't know where that leaves me... I voted and am as unhappy as all the other commentators).
3
The market mechanism ( capitalism) can be a great tool for deciding what to produce, how to produce it and who gets what is produced. Problems arise when those decisions are influenced by forces that give inordinate power to one or more of the factors of production- land, labor or capital. Today capital has way too much power and this is reflected by the current distribution of income and the fact that the legislatures, which set many rules, are in the pockets of the owners of capital. The tax bills reflect this imbalance. This problem will not abate until, as before, an economic collapse occurs and the public demands some kind of restructuring, We don't do revolutions anymore
so it is going to be a long haul.
5
"The rich people who would benefit from the measures passed by the House and the Senate tend to be older (and whiter) than the population at large"
Makes perfect sense because the people who vote are... older, richer, and whiter than the population at large.
3
In free-market capitalism, capital generates income for the owners of the capital which in turn is used to create additional capital. This is very good. Sometimes, it can be actually too good. As capital continues to accumulate, its owners find it more and more difficult to deploy it efficiently. The business sector generally must interact with the household sector by selling goods and services or lending to them. When capital accumulates too rapidly, the productive capacity of the business sector can outpace the ability of the household sector to absorb the increasing production.
The capitalists, or if you prefer, job creators use their increasing wealth and income to reinvest, thus increasing the productive capacity of the business they own. They also lend their accumulated wealth to other business as well as other entities after they have exhausted opportunities within business they own. As they seek to deploy ever more capital, excess factories, housing and shopping centers are built and more and more dubious loans are made. This is overinvestment. As cash pours into banks in ever increasing amounts, caution is thrown to the wind. For a while consumers can use credit to buy more goods and services than their incomes can sustain. Ultimately, the overinvestment results in a financial crisis that causes unemployment, reductions in factory utilization and bankruptcies all of which reduce the value of investments..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1543642
3
This is austrians vs marxists on the future of economics redux. Why dignify a debate between two nutjob positions as though it covers the entire subject?
Oh but this is 2017 in which we have Cruz vs Bernie on tv representing the entirety of political thought.
2
The Republican rob-the-poor tax law is a good thing, because it brings the revolution that much closer. You can go back to Aristotle on the causes of revolution to see that the reaction to this inequity will be a revolution. If it will not be done at the ballot box, it will be done in the streets.
2
Not just millennials. This 69 year-old is just back from the Faroes, a socialist country where the ethos is the pride they take in taking care of eachother. If I were younger, I might move there. Imagine - a country where there is community, mutual respect and care, and far, far less distance between the (relatively) poor and the (relatively) rich.
5
Interesting that Marie-Antoinette is mentioned, who was executed by guillotine in the French Revolution. Because we are facing a coming revolt, as much as France did in the late 18th century. Our job must be to make sure that revolt happens through democratic structures. That job begins in the 2018 elections, when Americans will begin to retake our country from its surging class of oligarchs.
5
• The anti-Communist Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation was alarmed to find in a recent survey that 44 percent of millennials would prefer to live in a socialist country, compared with 42 percent who want to live under capitalism.
My first question would be do people in the United States know the difference between totalitarian Communism and Socialism? I think not.
6
Socialism is nothing more than insuring that society works for everybody. It is the most effective means of insuring the common good. The common good as a concept appears to have been lost in this country and I believe it was abandoned when people of color began demanding the same rights as the white majority.
7
I’m just amazed – and incredibly thankful – that this event was allowed to take place. Antifa or angry students would have declared any defense of capitalism as hate speech and shut down this debate on many of our college campuses.
1
"It’s the raw exercise of power by a tiny unaccountable minority that believes in its own superiority." "The Trump era is radicalizing because it makes the rotten morality behind our inequalities so manifest." Brilliant, Ms Goldberg. You've captured the Ayn Rand ethos in two sentences. It never occurred to me that this is the fulfillment of "Objectivism" until I read your piece. Thank you. Great writing.
2
Capitalism is not the problem. Competition is one of the best things about Capitalism giving us great products like the iPhone. Crony capitalism is the real issue. When the large players make it impossible to compete with them it lessens competition and gives them an unfair advantage for products that are mediocre. These large corporations can donate unlimited amounts to politicians who do their bidding in Congress. Solar can't compete with coal when coal is given an unfair advantage with tax breaks. A recent example of crony capitalism was seen during the housing crisis. The banks were bailed out by the taxpayers since they were too big to fail and homeowners lost their homes. I agree that many individuals took on more debt than they should have but the banks were over leveraged but didn't care. They knew that depositors were insured by the federal government (meaning taxpayers). In addition, the ratings agencies, such as Moody's, gave triple A ratings to funds that knew were risky and loaded with CDOs. (Read, "The Big Short") Many people don't realize that large pension funds are required by law to invest in only triple A funds. But, these pension funds lost money because the ratings were bogus putting the taxpayers on the hook for bailing them out. The ratings agencies are paid by the funds themselves which is a major conflict of interest. The irony is that crony capitalism is really socialism for the wealthy.
3
Socialism saved capitalism, again, in 2008 under George W Bush's TARP, the Troubled Asset Relief Program. There'd be no Capitalism without Socialism. Question, was giving away land to railroad magnates back in the day capitalism? How about establishing the Internet and building the transistor, were they capitalism? How about subsidizing farmers to grow the food we eat, is that capitalism? How about "defense highways," even "defense" itself, despite Blackwater, is that really capitalism? How about building a nation off of the free labor of Americans of African descent and Native Americans, is that capitalism? Capitalism, Socialism are all given to CRONYISM, which is to ensure who gets paid, pick winners and such. There's no separating us from that fundamental aspect of who gets supported to build wealth and for whom. Call it all capitalism for what I care. We need a maximum wage in this country! Instead of reducing the estate tax, we need to double, triple, quadruple it. Heck, charge more estate tax in lieu of income tax. The dead don't spend money and those who inherit it DID NOT EARN IT (talk about spending on your women and booze!) I'm so upset -- I bought a modest home in 2009 that has continued to LOSE value yielding no equity -- and now they want to take away the little advantage I get in taxes! So much for planned renovations I've been waiting over 8 years to afford!
7
Maybe millennials are smart enough to understand that close to half of the citizenry pays no income taxes. They’re probably also smart enough to know that if you cut taxes, the benefit goes to the people who actually pay them.
2
• It’s not just the occult magic of the market that’s enriching Ivanka Trump’s children while health insurance premiums soar and public school budgets wither. It’s the raw exercise of power by a tiny unaccountable minority that believes in its own superiority. You don’t have to want to abolish capitalism to understand why the prospect is tempting to a generation that’s being robbed.
I'm getting to like you more and more, Ms Goldberg. You've quickly become a favourite among the few.
3
Let's not give the Millenials ALL the credit. At 59, I've been a hater of capitalism most of my adult life. Anyone with eyes could see what's been afoot since Reagan - a ruthless pack of aspiring oligarchs were determined to plunder the American democratic system to enrich themselves and their enablers in the donor class. Anyone who was awake could see it. And they've succeeded. The ship has sailed, in no small part because that pack of greedy, treasonous wretches knew they could count on the arrogant, willful ignorance of a huge swath of the citizenry. Capitalism only works when there is at least lip service paid to counterbalancing its undesirable aspects. We don't have that in this country. Haven't for years.
10
The simple fact is that deductibility of SALT for Federal tax purposes is a subsidy for big government effectively paid by low tax locales.If, as residents of high-tax cities and states (such as NYC and CA) are always arguing, blue cities and states are "supporting" the rest of the nation, why are they now pushing back so hard against paying the true costs of government? They need to DEAL WITH IT, and accept the costs of (big) government they demanded!
1
The high SALT states are all net donors. Eliminate SALT, and they will continue to be net donors. They are already paying more in than they are taking out, and now they will pay even more and take even less. New Jersey pays in 13,000 per person and gets back 10,000. How much will they get back when SALT is eliminated? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/us/politics/fact-check-state-local-ta...
3
Capitalism certainly has its problems, but what is enabling the takeover of our country by the donor-class is the grossly outdated Constitution of these United States. California should have the same representation in the Senate as Montana. Really? Federal judges should have life tenure. Really? (that may have meant until age 50 in the 18th century; 90 today). The Second Amendment means that everyone, everywhere should have the right to purchase automatic weapons. Really? (This provision was written when muskets were the weapon of the day and was intended to prepare folks to serve in a "well-regulated militia"). Representatives should serve for only two years. Really? (Perhaps when they were citizens just doing their temporary civic duty, but not when they are professional politicians having to constantly "dial for dollars"). A President a President for 4 years (and likely 8) with little practical way of removing him (not her as yet). Really? (The British system is MUCH better on this score. And so on.
Our present misery is the outgrowth of a system that has largely outlived its usefulness. We need a new Constitutional Convention, but given the people the old Constitution has helped put in place, we are highly unlikely to get one.
Meanwhile, many of us are sidetracked by notions such as "We're the greatest nation on earth," so why change anything. We need to be MUCH more self-critical.
5
I would suggest that Millennials hate a particular form of capitalism, namely "financial capitalism." This is different from the "product-market capitalism" that brings about actual products and services - like iPhones, clothing, Uber, etc - all extremely popular with millennials. These are actual companies that create value. Financial capitalism, in the form of hedge funds, private equity firms, securitized debt, junk bonds, etc, differs. Financial capitalism began in the early 1980s by offering financial instruments which purportedly "add value" but do not create it. In reality, there is no value-added. I would suggest THIS form of capitalism is what rankles socially-minded individuals. Unfortunately, the millennials who are supposedly "the best and the brightest" at our leading universities flock to investment banking jobs: to be a hedge fund manager is THE millennial career goal!
9
Wasn't low turn out by millenials (who claimed to prefer the Democrats) one way that Trump won? Those non-votiing millenials didn't care who won the 2016 elections. Shouldn't they be serene about the Republicans' tax bill and Trump's policies?
2
Can I suggest that Michelle Goldberg consult some sources outside her comfortable ideological bubble. This is just warmed-over Krugman.
The principal flaw about the tax bills before Congress is that they preserve many anti-capitalist tax breaks, subsidies, handouts to trial lawyers and other special interests, etc. that are better called crony socialism than capitalism.
But the House bill, in particular, does some good things. Goldberg might be daring and visit Greg Mankiw's blog once in a while. Take the cut in the tax rate on corporate income to 20 percent from 35 percent.
Mankiw explains: "Many economists believe the corporate tax is a bad way to fund the government. [C]ompared with other taxes, it generates a lot of economic harm for each dollar of revenue it raises. Some economists go so far as to recommend that the tax on capital income should be zero."
He goes on "Some may worry that a cut in corporate taxes would benefit only the firms’ wealthy owners. But that is not true, especially in the long run. Over time, lower corporate taxes would attract more investment in the corporate sector, increasing workers’ productivity and thus their wages."
Not only that, but the plan is revolutionary in doubling the personal exemption and eliminating many of the tax breaks for the rich that festoon our tax code. The tax plan has flushed out the Democrats and exposed them for what they are -- the party that uses the tax code to bribe taxpayers with other taxpayers' money.
1
Republicans seem to want to turn the clock back to the laissez faire capitalism of the 19th century. In 1900, there was no safety net and life expectancy was 45 years. Over half the population lived in poverty. Reagan spread the myth that this was a golden age. I am convinced he learned history from Hollywood movies.
Wages for ordinary people have stagnated since the late 1970s. The life expectancy of white males is starting to decline. There are almost no rich, successful countries with small governments. Change is inevitable.
4
Unfortunately, even those who have attended college don't understand economics at the most basic level. A huge regressive "tax" on millennials is the zoning laws that artificially restrict zoning density, making land more scare thus raising housing costs. It is Democrats in NYC, SF, Boston, DC, that pass these laws that benefit wealthy landlords such as President Trump to the detriment of millennial and others.
Many if not most college graduates do not seem to understand in any way the concept of wealth creation. Through automation there is additional wealth.
The zoning density restrictions (as well as overuse of historic landmark status and overregulation) is called "rent-seeking" a concept first introduced by Political Economist David Ricardo in the mid-19th century. Rent-seeking along is a form of market failure or market inefficiency. Rent-seeking does not create wealth, rather it simply uses politics to steal wealth from one group (eg, millennials) to another (eg. wealthy landlords such as President Trump).
Japan fixed the "rent-seeking" problem by passing a federal law that overrode local law reversing zoning density-restrictions. The result: in 2014, Tokyo built 140,000 homes compared with 20,000 in NYC and less than 90,000 in all of California.
Read Economist and Financial Times columnist's book, also recommended by Freakonomics, "The Undercover Economist" for an enjoyable, brief, introduction to microeconomics.
The author states that there is no coherent economic rationale for what the republicans are doing, but after reading the first half of 'Democracy in Chains' by Nancy Maclean, I believe I can see one. They are trying to undo progressive taxation schemes, remove all restraints on the ability of the rich to control our economy and our society, and to weaken any institution that fosters or enables collective action among those of us who are not rich to resist their power by using democratic institutions. And, they want to make it permanent.
4
In finance, federal whistleblower protection still does not apply to the Federal Reserve. The centrepiece of reform, the Vokcker Rule, never fully implemented in banking. The supply of credit remains the exclusive domain of federally protected monopolies.
In trade, we have theories that pretend to balance national accounts by treating all assets equally, as if there's some strange equivalence between funds residing in an onshore bank account for a few seconds and investments that increase the capital stock of the nation for property, plant and equipment.
On the international front, best practices at BIS remain subject to national supervisor discretion, resulting in an international race-to-the-bottom in banking. Financial, trade and commercial administrators, the world over, fully captured and supplicating apologists for rent-seeking monopolists, more than a little happy to profit from international disorder. No one is in charge in international finance and global commerce. It's not just millenials that feel enough is enough. Time to end crony global capitalism.
1
The rich think they are already spending too much and the poor think the rich aren't spending enough. Relatively, that's probably both true since rich people do have bigger expenses to begin with and they do hire many private professionals in their lives. Is it fair to ask them to give a lot of money in the form of taxes though? I'm not rich by any means but I'm trying to save money by living with parents (they are my roommates really), and extremely reducing my expenses and investing in 401k and a brokerage account. I don't intend to get married and have kids until I'm truly ready. I work with people who live paycheck to paycheck and had kids before they were 25. I do so much more than my peers and care about financial and personal health (exercise and eat right) and sometimes I think it's unfair that I'm getting the similar pay (while I do get to save a lot more). The rich probably think it's unfair so much in taxes as well. Personally I don't want rich people to be upset since they already control the government and we don't really have a democracy anymore. Our government officials really represent the donors that helped them get their jobs anyways. I'm at least happy that I can afford to live in America. European socialistic society seems to work right now compared to all the monarchy they overthrew but they're not much better financially now. Using a single currency in a big society like America or Europe doesn't really make much sense.
2
If I had my way, the conversation wouldn't be "should we have capitalism or should we have socialism?" It would be "what strategies best suit the situation, and what's our end goal?"
I'm no radical, or I didn't used to be. I don't think we need to seize the means of all production, or roll the guillotines out into the public square just yet. But I'm amazed how quickly we've forgotten how successful a carefully managed mixed economy was for awhile there. (At least for those allowed to participate.) And equally amazed at how little time is spent discussing what appropriate solutions - be they capitalistic, socialistic, or something else altogether - for addressing specific problems or achieving specific goals might be.
Capitalism has proven very good at raising the standard of living for a lot of people and giving us lots of consumer goods and very very wealthy individuals. It's also been great at facilitating gross overconsumption, commodification, precariousness, and anxiety -- not to mention allowing everyone to externalize the environmental costs of everything, the results of which we're finally starting to truly comprehend.
2
It's good to hear that younger people have this view of capitalism. And when they age about 20-30 or so years and they continue to see our environment becoming more and more ravaged by global warming and, after that, when they come to fully understand why all of this has happened--if they don't already (and they should)--they'll hate capitalism--and the present generation in charge--even more than they do now. But by then, of course, it will be too late.
4
It's very nice to pick on capitalism, but in fact we no longer have a capitalistic society. What we have instead is an oligarchy. Capitalism gets "out of whack" every now and then - like now and during the gilded age. When that happens, the financial system needs rational regulations not unbridled free markets. Unfortunately what we have by Trump and the plutocratic republicans is a drive to less regulation and less consumer protection. The oligarchic nature of the system will only continue to grow in this present environment. Not exactly a optimistic notion.
2
This is simple. First, in unregulated capitalism (I am a capitalist, within reason), over time all of the resources, money and sources of industry will be under the control of a single entity or person, gathering like pooling mercury.
Second, at any given point in time there is a fixed amount of capital, whether in the form of cash or industry. If X has more I will have access to less regardless of hard work or clever investment. There is only so much to go around. So, when trump's minions create a tax program that bequeaths the bulk of financial benefits to the upper 1%, there is that much less for the rest of us. It's simple arithmetic.
A critical point will come when there is no turning back and a handful of greedy individuals will have the means to control the rest of us if we want to eat. Then the real 'Hunger Games' will begin.
3
Capitalism is the worst form of economy, except for all the others.
It's interesting that the writer does t mention that under a global capitalist system, more people (in both absolute and relative terms) have escaped global poverty. Than at any point in history! This has been absolute success for the world's least fortunate.
But hey, let's hear the complaining from those who were born with huge advantages (e.g., anyone born in the G13 country and especially in the US).
2
The most accurate description of Capitalism was penned by Edward Abbey:
"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell."
4
There is nothing new here: young people have always believed in a political and economic system that resembles the one they just emerged from: the family, which provides for them while they learn to navigate the world. Home life: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. They tend to become more hard hearted when they become the providers, and are competing against other family units. But the thing I want to see these young people do is vote, and not vote for some crazy fringe option: vote in a meaningful way. Otherwise, their disillusionment becomes a facile, self-fulfilling prophecy.
2
It is the extremes of capitalism that are the problem.
Unfortunately, the extremes work well for those at the top. They more they get, they more they successfully hijack the system to get even more.
Eventually there will be consequences: think French Revolution.
7
When the Berlin wall fell, I said out loud: "That's it there in no competing ideology, It's going to be Capitalism Uber Ales". And I have been living an austere life ever since. I am pretty much untouchable now. And when the revolution comes, I will switch sides again. Ah capitalism!
1
The problem is that in the United States, our so-called 'conservatives' advocate socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.
Thus our tax code displays a distinct preference for passive income over income from labor. It will soon favor the transfer of wealth, typically accumulated through tax sheltered investment, free from federal taxation.
Our 'President' himself disproves Mr. Grassley's rationale for abolition of the estate tax, which affects no estate worth less than $10 million. You can count on one hand the number of Americans who die leaving over $10 million each year as a result of a life of hard work and frugality. A man who inherited millions, squandered much of that on risky, boneheaded business ventures and repeatedly washed himself clean of crushing debt by stiffing his creditors, and then emerged to continue his pursuit of trophy wives, gold plated toilet seats and pink marble is not anyone's model of 'frugality and hard work.'
Our tax code facilitates the accelerated concentration of wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer people based on passive investment and speculation. The carried interest scam, for example, remains untouched by 'tax reform,' while graduate students will pay income tax on tuition waivers and public school teachers will lose their token deduction for the out of pocket cost of construction paper and library paste.
'Capitalism' lifted many boats post-WW II. 'Reaganomics' and the supply side myth spelled the end of all that.
6
I graduated from high school in 1995. I came of age during the internet craze when the economy was booming and finding a job was easy as pie. I was able to make a comfortable life with some college education. I was paid a living wage that allowed me to pay my bills, save a little, and still have some fun. Life was good.
Then the recession hit and I lost everything. Finding a job was challenging and what I could find didn't pay benefits until the ACA came along. My story is not unique and the millennials have grown up watching their parents go through the same struggle.
When you look at the countries that are the happiest countries they have strong social safety nets, affordable education, well developed infrastructure, excellent public schools, universal or well subsidized healthcare, and programs that support working parents. They do this with high individual taxes and a belief in collective responsiblity.
Millennials look at the two systems and recognize that we're rotting. We reward the wealthy at the expense of the rest of us. If the wealthy want to hold onto their wealth they need to give back. Otherwise they're going to lose everything because of a generation who is tired of their greed and isn't willing to live a substandard life so the rich can live like kings.
9
I have a theory about the apparent mad rush of Congressional Repubs., their wealthy backers, & ultra conservatives to undue every reform since basically 1933.
I think they saw Obama's elections, consulted the numbers on demographic change, & applied their own specious reasoning about poor people (the sort of thing Grassley & Hatch said here), & concluded that their days of wine & caviar are numbered. So therefore, they are attempting to create every institutional & practical roadblock possible against an assumed future Democratic majority that could sweep away their wealth & take us back to the social system of the fifties & sixties, albeit this time w/equal treatment for women & minorities.
In other words, their extremely punitive policies toward the poor & workers, AND their willingness to tax basically every non-wealthy person trying to climb the ladder via education, are not just based on a lack of sympathy & generosity, but on a SIEGE MENTALITY. They really have bought into their own propaganda that says that the "undeserving" will take everything if they make ANY compromises w/them.
Now, they justify this attitude by wrapping themselves in the Constitution & invoking "principles of limited gov't" & "originalism", but its really about fear of coming social revolution if they give any ground.
The irony of all of this is that most Americans would love free markets & limited gov't, if Repubs. were willing to compromise & allow us just a bit of reform & security.
3
Many millennial hate capitalism because capitalism requires them to try. It requires them to put down their video games/lives as struggling actors/TV remotes and do hard work for many hours every week. Millennial were brought up being told that all that matters is their feelings and they can do whatever they please in life.
1
Joe, I respectfully disagree. The deck is stacked against the millennial and all subsequent generations. Imagine playing a game of Monopoly where the other players were able to make ten trips around the board before you could begin playing. Why bother playing as there is no way you could win/survive more than a few turns? I am sure some would label the newest potential player weak, lazy, and whiners. The first players would claim that every player started with the same amount of money, use the same dice, and move on the same board so the new player has the same opportunity as they did. Clearly the game as described is not fair.....neither is today's economic environment. Is player who does not engage in either scenario smart or stupid? Let's design a better game.
3
Millennials are being "robbed" of what, exactly? This is a strange logic, since tax cuts are simply the government letting the taxpayer keep more of their money that they've earned. Tax cuts are not a "redistribution of wealth"--it's the Left that redistributes wealth when it moans about how tax cuts may leave less room for government spending programs. Government spending, of course, comes from "other people's money." As far as morality, why am I obliged to other people I've never met merely because they happen to exist and possess two (or fewer) legs?
1
Luther, if your fellow citizens thought the way you did, they'd be happy to step over you as you lay bleeding to death in the street.
6
Reply to Sloan - Your comments sum up the selfish, thoughtless greed of the GOP minions. It would be okay if the playing field were even. It's stacked. If you had your ways children would be dying in the streets. Nice.
7
As a card-carrying baby boomer I recall that many in my generation (at least those well off enough to be in college) back in the 60's and 70's hated capitalism as well. Capitalism" was evil. It was mind-numbing and soul-killing for those who practiced it, and cruel and oppressive for those who it was practiced against.
When we reached our 30's, though, most of us came to the realization that life in an industrialized society was a lot more fulfilling and enjoyable if you could afford many of the pleasures that society offered: nice homes, good cars, computers, Caribbean vacations, etc. And the ONLY way to afford these things was to join the capitalist system. And so we held our noses and did so.
50 years later, many of us have done rather well. Some are incredibly rich. Others, like myself and most of my friends, while certainly not wealthy, have lived and continue to live reasonably comfortable, enriching and fun lives with the money we have earned through our smart and hard work and perseverance. I have no doubt that the same reality will come true for today's millennials.
Or, as George Bernard Shaw once put it...
"If a man is not a flaming liberal at age 20 then he hasn't got a heart. And if he is not a hardened conservative at age 60 then he hasn't got a brain."
2
If wonder what all of these self important entitled 5% will do when the people who have to live paycheck to paycheck no longer fix their roads, clean their houses, mow their lawns or are nannies to their children because they do not have the resources to sustain themselves. When the infrastructure has collapsed, the school system can no longer educate the masses and the homeless population reaches a critical mass I suppose they will move to Europe where they can repeat their process all over again. We need to knock many of the Louise Littons in this country down a few pegs.
2
Capitalism, and it's crony, greed, have finite lives in our future, simply because the resources necessary to continue the trend are finite. The planet simply cannot sustain the capitalist trend in the long term. It is time now, for people to be considering an alternative that will lead to peace and prosperity for all in a less materially driven world.
4
Millennials can't hate capitalism because they've never lived in such a society. Capitalism - as an economic system - has been dead in this country for quite a while. By definition, capitalism reinvests capital - money - to help build better products/services to be sold in the marketplace. When's the last time a corporation reinvested in their business by creating breakthrough products, hiring new people, improving infrastructure? Or do you think they'll simply buyback stock; "profit" with no risk. By definition capitalism demands competition. Reagan started us down the monopolistic slide 40 years ago. In today's NYT: CVS to buy Aetna. Does anyone really think CVS wants to buy Aetna to improve the customer experience and lower prices
I could go on, but why? We live in an oligarchy or plutocracy - not a capitalistic society. A new feudalism. Perhaps most alarming, our very democratic way of life hangs in the balance.
As Piketty observes, situations like this have historically resulted in violent revolution. How do we prevent this from happening before it's too late?
5
Capitalism must be regulated. We have seen what happens when it is not, companies canning rotten meat, no standards for medicine, Wells Fargo opening accounts for clients without their knowledge.
The question, then, is how much regulation.
Conservatives want to get as close to the Robber Baron model as possible. The Rich made lots of money. Workers worked 10 hours a day (or more), 6 days a week (or 7), no holidays, no sick pay, no family time. Life expectancy for workers as about 50 or so. Infant mortality was 3rd world level. This is unregulated capitalism.
On the other hand, we can see the results of highly regulated capitalism in many European countries that educate their people, take care of their medical needs, retirement needs, 4 weeks paid vacation for all workers by law, and run balanced budgets.
No country modern country governs by low tax, low regulation policies because they cannot match the results for the citizens has mentioned above.
One would think that the Conservatives would be at least interested in the balanced budget part. But they are not.
4
So what you're saying is a return to the robber baron model would take care of the SSI "crisis?"
Have you shared this with the office of Very Serious Policy Wonk Paul Ryan?
Socialism is looking better and better every day and not just among the young. When Hatch and Grassley can prove that "people won't lift a finger to help themselves" or "they spend their money on booze women and movies" then maybe they will have a valid point. But there is no proof of either of those statements. Unless of course they are referring to themselves. Based on their work ethic of 2 1/2 days a week, spending the rest of the time on taxpayers money, raising money from donors, they should be returning their salary and benefits to the Treasury. In fact all of our leaders should be required to do that.
Then maybe we will have the billions required to take care of serious matters. Like Heath care, education, civil rights of all citizens, etc.
Bullies alway pick on those less powerful than themselves. These two are bullies of the highest order. Time for them to retire.
7
If you don't like capitalism now, just wait. A McKinsey report last week estimated that by 2030 we will lose 30% of our jobs to automation. Ain't that grand? Just think of all the implications of that, with unemployment, under employment, wage stagnation, fighting in the streets for jobs etc.
2
Holllld on here. When millenials use the word 'socialism', they are fully thinking of western European modern social-captilistic countries most all of the time. This is the sort of headline and writing up front that is designed to give old people heart attacks.
I am an older millenial (mid 30s), and consider myself moderate (in terms of western civilization -- I want much, but not all aspects, of western european socialism), and when I say I 'hate' capitalism, what I am saying is I hate today's modern American version of 'capitalism' where the economy is dominated by monopolies, oligarchs, and the tax system gives special low tax rates and loopholes to owners. The current bill does make this even worse, as it levies LOWER tax rates on business owners, no matter their income, than middle-income workers while giving said business owners a plethora of tax write offs while eliminating many of the same tax deductions on workers. With this tax bill especially, but even a bit so in our current system, workers are paying higher tax rates on stagnant incomes than the people we work for who are only getting richer. So yes, the thrust of the article is correct.
4
fantastic op-ed. as a grad student in my late 20s, I couldn't be more cynical and skeptical of unbridled capitalism. I would be more than happy to take my natural science PhD to a more socialist, citizen serving country like pretty much anywhere in Europe.
2
Maybe folks who are wealthy today but received government aid in their past, should pay back every dollar they ever received. I find it galling that some recipients of past aid now think that nobody is deserving.
5
Capitalism, while not an inherently bad model, will fail because those who have can never have enough, and begin to rig the model to their liking. They forget they are only .001% of the population, and, if history tells us anything, it never ends well for them.
5
The "won't lift a finger" is aggravating because we have an economy that functions in no small part due to the working poor. When you make minimum wage or heck, $10-$12 an hour, you do end up spending every penny you make. You may not have enough if you have kids. We don't help these people. We don't help them get educated or better jobs. Corporations don't help these people- they invest in technology so they won't need these people. There is a small sliver of jobs for educated people that pay living wages.
I don't think corporations owe society anything- I don't think trickle down economics applies anymore. Companies are just becoming more efficient and needing fewer people- so giving them tax breaks doesn't necessarily create jobs, it just creates profit.
3
News - you don't have to be a millennial to loathe what the GOP is doing almost everywhere, and especially with their vaunted "tax cuts". This will exacerbate existing inequalities and social division, as well as expanding the deficit. At the center of all of these abominations is our pay-to-play political process, which neither party has seriously tried to change. Until someone does, all bets are off that we can make the changes that we need to have the society that most of us want. We have seen already how mass social disaffection can lead to irrational electoral outcomes. In the end, I think we will be lucky to avoid a war.
4
The capitalist oligarchy has not reached into my comfortable sector of retirees yet, but I expect it will in time. We are experiencing the destruction of great humane ideas in the service of arrogant super capitalists. I am not a millennial—I am 78 years old—but I believe capitalism as it now exists as a mechanism that puts daily life at the mercy of relentless sales pitches and that shapes government policy for the wealthiest is an abomination. I began to think that way when Citizens United decision declared corporations are people. And this president’s and Congress and new executive appointees’ devastation of comity, the environment, ethics, and of decency has solidified my view that capitalism unchecked is accomplishing nothing less than the end the planet.
5
Don't call them taxes, rich people. Call them "insurance premiums". The pittance you pay in taxes to keep everybody that you oh-so want to keep away from you go to keep those people barely fed, barely healthy, and somewhat educated. Forget about paying for roads and fire fighters that support your factories and offices. It keeps the barest edge off of poverty and hopelessness.
You need that, rich people. Why? Because most days that's the only thing keeping people from doing the most logical thing they could be doing: lining you up against the wall.
5
Maybe for the next election young people will study the issues of each party and actually vote.
There's a whole lot of "anti-big-government" disguised as "anti-capitalism" in this story, but absolutely no "pro-communism". The problems with communism tend to be the same as the problems with big government, namely abuse of power.
Federal loopholes for the rich and a shifting burden toward the poor are signs of a corrupt government, not a failed capitalist system. Communism, by design, REQUIRES a large central government to enforce the communist system. Capitalism, true capitalism, is only stifled and corrupted by a strong central government.
Let's try a smaller, less-powerful Federal government before forcing an oppressive ideal upon those who would rather keep the rewards of their own efforts.
A simplified, flat system of taxation with no loopholes is what is needed to truly test the capitalist system. Corruption in the Federal system can only be eliminated by removing power. Point to a SINGLE communist state where the people have ANY true freedom. There isn't one, and there may never be.
1
Pure Capitalism is destructive to the cohesiveness of a society. When mixed with socialistic idea's it works pretty well. Capitalism=every man for himself, or in other words Republican law makers. Socialism brings the spirit of society closer to being in it together. Capitalism is all about personal responsibility for your own life, which is great except if you're injured, disabled, old, really ill, PTSD war veteran's, people who have been seriously traumatized physically or emotionally etc., which probably is a new and foreign idea for very rich folks, i.e. Republican heartlessness toward social safety net programs. Capitalism has brought us corporate government. Smart people know that when gov't programs help the needy, more people will be healthy and happier, which leads to a more productive cohesive society. That's where i want to live and would move to a socialist country in a second if i wasn't as old as i am. My fellow Americans, is war the only thing that brings us together as a society? Republicans will be happy to start one with our all volunteer army, so you won't have to be bothered. Besides, war is good for business. Oy!
3
Seems like there’s a conflation of Soviet-style, authoritarian communism with European-style, Democratic social programs that underlies this piece and the broader societal discussion.
2
The problem with capitalism has always been that it has no heart or morality. The pure profit (some say greed) motive supersedes all other considerations. Consequently we have learned historically that capitalism's worst tendencies need to be restrained and regulated. Whether it was trust-busting, child labor laws, fair labor standards, occupational health and safety, environmental regulation, or many others. Profiteers do not care about human suffering or the health of our planet. This is a key and essential function of government in a capitalist society, but it is being methodically torn apart by Republicans who feed at the tough of huge capitalistic donors, and sneer at those who are victims of the greed machine. They are every bit as heartless and amoral as unrestrained capitalism itself. People will need to feel this pain and hear more sad stories before they are ready to throw these unworthy politicians out.
2
In an article from the Digital NY Times on Nov 30, 2017, Steve Lohr states that: "The Mckinsey automation-and-jobs report captures the uncertainty surrounding A.I. ( artificial intelligence) and its coming effect on labor markets. Its projection of the number of Americans who will have to find new occupations by 2030 ranges from 16 million to 54 million-- depending on the pace of technology adoption." At the upper range, since (54 million/12 years = 4.5 million people per year) annually 4.5 million people may have to find new jobs; if correct. With a current employed US labor force of about 153.9 million people, [(54 million people/153.9 million people) x 100 = 35.1%]; or over 1/3 of the active labor force would need to change jobs.
I think the new tax bill allows for quicker write-offs of machinery and equipment, until immediate expensing of these items is phased in over the bill's lifetime. The deductions from this immediate expensing of equipment will significantly reduce tax revenues from corporations, simultaneously with a large cut in their statutory tax rate from 35% to 20%. All occurring in an economic environment when tax revenues may be needed to retrain idled employees at least partially because of A.I. innovations.
[JJL 12/5/2017 12:38p Tu Greenville NC]
This is not capitalism. There is no risk. Citizens United allowed a tiny but powerful cabal to, for all intents and purposes, purchase a government that will do their bidding. The fact that GOP money is now flooding into Alabama to ensure their majority to bring in a person described by the Economist as "repugnant" and by Mitt Romney as a "stain" speaks volumes.
Senator Hatch has a "rough time wanting to spend billions...on people who won't help themselves-wont lift a finger...". Clearly he and his ilk are capable of holding up at least one finger.
On a quick side note, someone should look up the difference between socialism and communism, especially in how it has been put into practice. Swedish socialism cannot be lumped together with the USSR, circa 1935, anymore than US democracy can be compared to recent Zimbabwean elections. All ideologies are vulnerable to corruption, and that corruption is fostered by demonizing, if not outlawing opposing political parties.
Those who speak up for genuine democracy, and those who speak up for genuine capitalism are quite correct, but they are not defending the United States in its current form. To a younger person, this must present the future as an arena in which only a tiny few can even partake in the modest idea of the American dream.
3
Millenials get a bad rap. They have never seen the Health Insurance industry actually work. Why wouldn't they prefer Single Payer? They were raised in an era of technological short cuts: computers, GPS, smart phones and now 3D printers. Business people and athletes who dropped out of college to become millionaires were lionized by the media during their childhood. Why wouldn't millenials want to skip over behavior, purchases and institutions that have never worked in their life times? It is always fashionable for middle-aged persons, like myself, to criticize the younger generation. Call me unfashionable but I am with the millenials...just don't call me a hipster.
2
Millenials need leaders to stage an uprising in Washington. That and their votes are their only weapons against so-called leaders who are dismantling their future in front of their eyes.
1
Loved your column My wife, Bernice, just finished reading it and she loved it as well. At this point in our history, A Dutch, Danish or French type government would make more sense than a Trump one. We used to admire a few Republicans, including Jeff Flake, but even he caved.
2
I don't support the proposed tax bills in either house. However, many middle class parents do indeed send their kids to private schools and will benefit from the college 529 plan modification. So this particular feature is not a "rich people only" benefit, as many middle class parents use a college 529 plan anyway.
The current millennial generation has not ever lived "lean" as I like to say. They mostly have cellphones, netflix, personal other devices, cars, and on and on. When I was young my parents had to buy a used cub scout shirt since we couldn't afford a new one. They have no idea what a true socialistic society is really like. (And no Denmark isn't a socialist country, nor is Sweden)
Having healthcare for all, stronger privacy laws, and stronger labor protections does not equal a socialist country. Sounds straightforward, but millennials in general simply do not understand.
1
I suspect our definitions of "middle class" are not the same.
70% of 529 plans belong to families with 6-figure incomes. A family near the median barely benefits from them. They cost a lot of money (though not all that much compared with what these tax cuts are going to cost).
They're bad policy. So bad even very-upper-middle-class-friendly President Obama wanted to restructure them. But the upper middle class votes, and they have the ears of their reps.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/a-tax-break-for-dream-hoarders-what-t...
2
I don't know which millennials you're talking about, but here in Quebec, money rules for millennials. Fancy cars, fancy condos, fancy watches, and of course hitting the bars. I'm sure all those millennials in NYC don't hate capitalism - they worship it.
So please give me a break when you write such articles!
7
are you kidding me? would love to see some data to support this claim, that you're implying the median millenial is well off, or better off than the median non millenial.
1
Sounds like sour grapes , no wonder the last part of your handle is trout , it may be different in Canada I will not pretend to be well versed on how your society works , especially in Quebec and you really should take a break . Obviously , your millennials aren't burdened by debt (student loans ) are perhaps they're spending daddy's money ,( we have them here too , rich kids ala Trump) and yes , not everybody in NYC has a rich daddy who made his money at the expense of others.They're trying to get educated to advance themselves but it's difficult when the banks rip them off with high interest on their student loans (probably the daddies of those millennials you're speaking of) .
2
Worshipping Mammon has gone on since money was invented. Young adults privileged enough to indulge in a city’s material delights happens anywhere, in any era—be it children of British aristocrats, Soviet apparatchiks, or American elite—regardless of the economic system they’re living in. I’m quite sure how they were raised, how their economic system treats them and their peers, and their general level of disposable income would great influence how they would respond to questions about economic systems. In our increasingly dystopian system, if one is rich, then you “deserve” it and the attendant entitlement; if you’re poor, well, it’s your fault, you “deserve” it for not making better choices, as if choices are actually available...If history is any guide this is the on ramp to the highway to instability, social disorder, martial law, revolution.
2
This doesn't seem like an economic issue but rather a moral one. Capitalism has become the Ebeneezer Scrooge at the start of a Christmas Carol. Maybe it used to be more like the character at the end, maybe it will be again, but for now too many seemed focused on how much they have versus how much good they can do with what they have. Maybe millennials (and younger Gen X) simply have a different moral compass than baby boomers or maybe older generations have forgotten all that was given them.
This tax plan will save me money, but at what cost? Which of my friends will be priced out of healthcare? Which of my friends will lose much needed write-offs on student loans? In the end, the money that I will save isn't worth what people I love will lose.
17
Capitalism isn't the issue. "Crony Capitalism" is simply a corrupt government. Our government will remain corrupt regardless of what economic model we follow. Communism shifts more power to those corrupt politicians. We need to reduce the power of the Federal Government, not increase it.
You and I should gain from our efforts. Those unable to work should have assistance based on their disability. There should be absolutely NO benefits paid to those capable of working, but not. Communism, as an economic model, makes no distinction. Capitalism, with limited safety net programs, is the only way to ensure that efforts are rewarded. Communism cannot reward effort.
I agree. And to take it a step further, at what cost to those who are not our friends and relatives? They, too, will suffer, we just won't know them personally. Greed and compassion are not generational traits, they are individual ones.
4
I don't believe that millennials are against capitalism. They, as most people, are against inequity. Capitalism, which takes many forms, is still the best way of moving people up the food chain. Many of our most noted entrepreneurs and CEOs came from humble beginnings (for example, the father of Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, was a postal worker).
Many of the young people with whom I work are motivated by capitalism and doing good for society. I was recently at a speech by Blake Mycoskie of Tom's Shoes that reinforced that premise.
I believe capitalism is changing, and it's not going to be a "no holds barred" economic engine. The alternatives forms of economic and political structure are not going to be able to provide the platform for economic and personal growth.
4
Amen!
Too many people will read this article as a denouncement of capitalism (as it claims to be), and not realize that ALL examples against capitalism in this article are actually examples of corruption in the government.
Capitalism is the fairest economic model, and CAN ensure equality if uninfringed by corruption in the government. Communism can only force an equal outcome, and does not reward individual effort.
Maybe we should try actual capitalism before declaring it dead.
Re: "moving people up the food chain," US is at the bottom of OECD countries, pretty much no matter how you slice it.
http://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lags-peer-countries-mobility/
2
If all else fails, Millennials could try voting. Only 15% did in the 2014 midterms, compared to 55% for the seniors they will be supporting all of their working life, with no expectation of the same help when they are old.
You'd think that receiving a Social Security statement annually that informs them that benefits will be cut in 2037 might inspire a little socialist impulse to support the Party that promises to shore up the Trust Fund.
Greater Millennial participation in democracy would be a huge game changer.
47
Many millennials don’t have election days off to vote. Retirees don’t have to worry about that. People who work hourly or don’t have access to transportation have a hard time voting.
It’s easy to vote when you don’t have to work.
3
Democrats need to actually give them a reason to vote, instead of constantly promising to compromise with the Party of the global rich.
4
The very rich are tearing our society apart, demanding more for themselves. Why do the rich care so much? After all the tax cuts are modest relative to their immense wealth. Is it really about money? Or is it something deeper, more visceral, a need to dominate and impoverish everyone else?
The great English historian, R.H. Tawney, in his magisterial work, “Religion and the Rise of Capitalism" (1926), tells us that by the mid 1600’s, most English Puritans saw in poverty "not a misfortune to be pitied and relieved, but a moral failing to be condemned, and in riches, not an object of suspicion ... but the blessing which rewards the triumph of energy and will.”
This ideal of individual morality, derived from Calvin, has been with us ever since. But it has surfaced with renewed zeal in our time, with men like the Koch bothers, Robert Mercer, Art Pope, Sheldon Adelson and others determined to spend whatever it takes to replace democracy as we know it—a leveling force—with a fascistic, plutocratic model of government.
For these billionaires, however, religion is not the motivator. Rather, it's how they see themselves, their self image, that drives their lust for power, their need to dominate. They are the "makers," deserving, while the rest of us are "takers," undeserving and cadging off their efforts. Identity politics isn’t just for Democrats anymore.
For a penetrating interpretation, see George Monbiot’s short but defining piece in The Guardian: http://tinyurl.com/p5dg6b5
27
I overall agree with you, but you've really misread Calvin.
Calvin believed in total depravity, that each person was tainted with sin, and that the fall had corrupted all the facets of men: their thinking, ability to reason, emotions, and will. Therefore, all men are due the wrath and judgment of God, whether poor or rich, educated or not, and can only be saved by the working grace of God, not from "individual morality".
So in a way, Calvin actually saw all men as equal. He just didn't see them as equally good, but equally sinful.
It should be noted that the Puritans didn't set off for America simply to flee religious persecution, but to be free to persecute others who didn't conform to their Puritan religious tenets.
A Puritan is someone who lives in mortal fear that somewhere, someone is having a good time. - H.L. Mencken.
Yep, Chuck Grassley, anyone not rich, who has to struggle to pay their bills month to month, must be wasting all their money whooping it up with booze, women, and the occasional movie. That's the sole reason they aren't fully invested with the hedge fund of their choice. Chuck Grassley is the face of the Greed Over People party.
4
I learned about some of this when I read "The Money Cult" (Lehmann) and it made so much sense I kept wondering why the history of Christian thought with regard to earthly wealth wasn't more widely discussed. Then I remembered who decides what topics of discussion are permitted to be centered these days...
3
One more example of the temptations and perils of adopting strident self-righteous camps of entrenchment in our politics. Democrats may soon rue the many times in the past they steadfastly refused to reform Social Security and Medicare so that cost curves would be bent and the programs put on sustainable paths. And today's Republicans may look back on their hubris in their current obeisance to robber baronism, and regret it led to the downfall of the American Experiment by excessive greed and inequality, and the messy necessity of pitchforks and vulnerability to over-reaction as were the October Revolution, the French Revolution, etc.
The fundamental problem exposed is the factionalization of our politics. There are many reasons: the over-valuing of the sensationalizing media soundbite; a general congressional workweek of Tues-Thurs which allows congresspeople to leave town and commute rather than live in Washington and engage in cross-aisle personal relationships, critical to bipartisan work in the interest of the nation; the refusal of any compromise, which at one time was felt to be the currency and art of politics, etc., etc.
Then there's the inordinate influence of powerful money. Election financing is the Achilles Hell of this Experiment. It inherently corrupts the nation's business. But since the Supreme Court in its wisdom has cemented the Corruption of Mammon into granite by its Citizens United disposition, we are in a terrible fix. Is the die cast for terminus?
11
If we'd "reformed" SSI and Medicare, do you really think it would keep the Republicans from wanting to "reform" it until it's "reformed" out of existence? They simply don't operate in good faith. If ACA had actually reversed cost growth so premiums went down, Republicans would have claimed they would have gone down faster if we'd stayed out of it and simply "let markets do the work." They're fanatics, and what they're fanatical about is preserving and perpetuating wealth, privilege, and influence for their donors and themselves. Everything else is means to an end.
2
What people are beginning to realize is a uniquely American blend of Social Darwinism and Calvinism, fulsomely documented in such works as Social Darwinism in American by Hofstadter. God blesses those who are, well, blessed, say the Calvinists. Moreover, say the Darwinists, riches should flow to those who have demonstrated their worth in the jungle of capitalism, i.e., the rich. Anything even as mild as a progressive tax system interferes with the laws of nature that will result, after generations, to the creation of a "new man." In the mean time, if people suffer, so be it. As God has demonstrated, the poor are damned, and they should be as fully damned on earth as they will be in the next world.
10
Kudos excellent piece. Here are 2 ideas to keep in mind:
1st between free market and competitive markets. Capitalism supports either and to various degrees both. The former exacerbate inequality and all of the ills that rightly bother millennials.
2nd, Marketing - time to dust off Paul Krugman's "Paris Hilton Tax Holiday" name. We'll forget without a catchy name - too bad Helmsley is already forgotten - her quotes are special!
4
What, in this article, was an example of a failure of capitalism?
Every complaint leveled against capitalism was actually an example of a corrupted government and unfair taxation. Such a corrupt system would only be worse under communism, where power would necessarily be concentrated into that same corrupted system.
The US was founded as a republic, grew as a republic, and prospered as a republic. Allowing a more centralised government, regardless of the economic model it follows, simply increases corruption.
Let's go back to a republic with a weak Federal government empowered only to resolve disputes between parties (foreign or domestic), and allow the states to individually experiment with this communist ideal. If it works, other states will adopt it. If not, then it will fail, and another system can be tried. Either way, we need to identify the problem correctly. Corruption is the problem, not capitalism.
I think it's very nice that the folks who put that magazine together called it Jacobin. Yep, who wouldn't want to bring back the guillotine?
Let's be clear about what the Jacobins did. The French Revolution was under attack from counter-revolutionaries so the Jacobins persuaded the revolutionaries to set up a Committee for Public Safety to take on the counter-revolutionaries. Then the Jacobins proceeded to use it against their political opponents within the Revolutionary camp. The Girodins whose heads they chopped off were no less dedicated to the Revolution than the Jacobins were. And, of course, what the French ended up with was the rule of one man, Napoleon Bonaparte. Shall I next mention Stalin?
Meanwhile we have Ms. Gopldberg confusing Socialism with Communism. If our choices are actually limited to cut-throat laissez-faire Capitalism or Stalinist Communism we might as well just commit suicide!
I can't point to the exact point between these extremes where we should aim but I know we need to be somewhere in there.
7
What point between the two extreme Jack Toner asks? We might aim for what the European Union aims for: "a social market economy." That's what our so-called closest allies, the Brits, are leaving. Article 3 of the Treaty of European Union states:
√3. The Union shall establish an internal market. It shall work for the sustainable development of Europe based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the envi-ronment. It shall promote scientific and technological advance.
It shall combat social exclusion and discrimination, and shall promote social justice and protection, equality between women and men, solidarity between generations and protection of the rights of the child.
It shall promote economic, social and territorial cohesion, and solidarity among Member States.
It shall respect its rich cultural and linguistic diversity, and shall ensure that Eu-rope’s cultural heritage is safeguarded and enhanced.
8
touche'
Michelle Goldberg has gotten her economic concepts confused. What we now have in these United States and what we have had for a number of years is an economy dominated by monopolists and oligopolists. Any resemblance to the reasonably fair capitalist system under which I grew up is superficial. Our economy is run by a number of "complexes". We now have the factory food industrial complex, the financial oligopoly, the health care oligopoly, the telecommunications oligopoly (portrayed inaccurately in another op ed today) and on and on. Millennials do not hate capitalism. They hate the American economic system, whatever one chooses to call it, because the deck is stacked against them. Or is it because companies are using Big Julie's dice from "Guys and Dolls"? So do I, far away from being a millennial. Goldberg's column perpetuates a misunderstanding about what is and what is not capitalism.
12
It's "Big Jule," and what a character. "Well, I used to be bad when I was a kid, but ever since then I've gone straight, as has been proved by my record: Thirty-three arrests and no convictions!"
Michelle- you do understand the difference between Communism and Socialism? The former being exclusively implemented by dictatorships, and the latter being the dominant form of government among a number of our close NATO allies? I believe this is where Millennials are drawing their inspiration. No one is suggesting we go the way of China, NK or the USSR. This is sloppy editorializing.
8
Greed kills both Capitalism and Communism.
Socialism is basically Capitalism with a strong safety net of essential for the middle class--healthcare, childcare, education, retirement.
15
"a strong safety net of essential for the middle class--healthcare, childcare, education, retirement." Just like in Venezuela? Everyone but the government is eating out of dumpsters. Educated people are resorting to prostitution to feed their family. What part of that is "a strong safety net"? Good Lord.
1
Good, good clear language. Yes, a democratic-socialism, kind of like we already have with government doing a lot of the community's heavy lifting, but much stronger, especially in regards to equality. Equality. That matters.
You people of the 'conservative' ways: where is your equality? You seem to hold on to a few issues, like abortion and guns, and that makes it easy for you. You really just take the easy way out. That's bad citizenship.
It seems that good education and contraception helps women reduced their unwanted pregnancies. Why are you rallying for that? If you actually want fewer abortions then work towards that goal. That's what I want, too. This is a big issue but there's so many more.
What about the woman that has the baby but has no decent home or job or life for the child? Where's the care? Where's that love you talk about life?
I don't see it.
Yall will support Moore in Alabama for a few, selfish reasons. You support the predator President for a few selfish reasons. You follow what the Russians and billionaires tell you. Shame. Shame.
Simple is good, and simple is love. We elect people that love money, then act like we follow the one that turned over the moneychangers' tables. What? Which one are we, really? Nah, we're owned by the rich, cause that's what we want. We're okay with that. We're morally weak, materially greedy, and too lost to fight. As the greediest of all would say, 'SAD!'
8
When a generation grows up with their eyes plastered to a manipulation device and essentially mentally neutered, their lives have been destroyed. Millennials are simply waking up to the fact that Santa Claus does not exist.
1
Oh those millennials.
Some might even be old enough to have two parents each enjoying the safety and security of pensions. Likely not, however.
Those cosseted millennials probably had to pay for their own education, struggle through a job market shredding industries left and right, and still listen to the frumpy set talk about how they had to walk to school barefoot, uphill both ways, in the snow.
Of course knowing that the previous generation wouldn't happily pull up the middle class ladder behind them must have been a comfort to boomers in those tough times.
Now all the older generation has to offer millennials is pieties and self-justifying morality tales, told while wrapped in the comfort of fully Social Security and Medicare.
For now.
It's sad to see how Americans treat their future.
3
The libertarians are right. How successful you are depends on the decisions you make. And the most important single decision you'll ever make is picking the right parents, the ones with the money.
18
There is no libertarian government in the world because it does not work.
1
At 71 years of age, I hope I live long enough to see a socialist form of government in our country. So fed up with the Republican greed and the Democratic hand wringing.
Just reading the comments on another NYT article where the prevailing argument of Democrats is calling for a shut down of the government, just as the Republicans have done on numerous times in the last few years, is despicable.
Democrats, instead of presenting to the media and therefore to the citizenry, spread sheets of all the ideas they have to improve the lives of the citizens, they whine and moan about Republican malfescence.
To Democrats I say, do not throw the country into turmoil as the Republicans have done when they do not get their way, show us, campaign, teach us what you are for so that we will be ready to vote for your ideas, not your whining; do not shut down the government and put lots of people out of work and postpone services for the people; we need a functioning government even when we are on the short end of the stick.
We will win, again, when you show us that you can lead.
6
Many of the more affluent millennials have done a semester abroad. Why should they be afraid of Socialism when they can see that Denmark and Norway have the happiest citizens, Finland has the best schools, University is free in Germany, etc. etc.
Meanwhile, the US is the ONLY wealthy nation without guaranteed medical care, we live in perpetual war machine that is making us the enemy of the world (troops in 70 countries!), our infrastructure is outdated. And the .01 percenters don't care because they have private planes to take them to their homes in other countries.
I am a 60-something socialist, and I am hopeful that young people will help us turn our country away from war and greed and back toward goodness, kindness, and generosity.
20
These people forget about the Bastille at their own peril. They seem to forget there are over 300 Million privately owned firearms in the Nation. They seem to forget that the vast majority of military are millennials from the poor and middle classes. They have forgotten any sense of duty or responsibility they should have for the Nation that has allowed them to prosper and lately a government that has worked overtime only for them.
The political winds will change, one way or another, and if they change back to an FDR style of democratic politics the pendulum will swing so far the other way their privileges will be at risk.
4
Precisely.
Capitalism is a rotton way to organize society.
7
Millennial here, and it’s not capitalism I dislike so much as I dislike witnessing everything — and I do mean everything, from education to health care to public spaces to democracy itself — be economized, corporatized, privatized, and thrown out to the mercy of the free market by plutocrats who don’t believe in the idea of a common good.
What is more: freedom to participate in the free market (”only the strong survive!”) isn’t actually freedom. Public goods that are only accessible to those who can pay for them aren’t very public. A “political marketplace” controlled by the wealthy isn’t politics for the majority.
23
Both Capitalism, and Democracy, work optimally when your institutions are transparent and your participants are well educated. Overwhelmingly, we have neither. Add in the current monopolies and sociopathic, short-sighted leadership and capitalism is toxic.
8
I'm certainly not the sage I wannabe, while I've a couple ideas re
the issue.
Ideology sorta aka "ism" has been the foreboding or turnoff of (seemingly) most Americans, because of the connotation of semantic nastiness.
Really that's my perception of reality as nutty as this claim seems.
Political rhetoric tends to be deliberately dumbed down, and unfortunately "capitalism" and "socialism" are sorta weaponized in their invoking.
REASON and THE NATION magazines nor this forum are not what I'm snobbishly bashing.
The phenomena of emotional inducing ideological
rhetoric are about our overall culture's political/social subtlety and complexity.
I think I'll stop with this boring lecture, but discussions of ideologies often strike me as poorly defined/misunderstood if not mostly futile.
Religion and politics: the cliché about avoiding 'em in polite conversation is utterly true enough.
1
Capitalism will never die. We are paid slaves, but slaves nonetheless. This is the deal we've made.
3
Hit the nail on the head. Well done.
2
The current situation is how unfettered capitalism is supposed to function. We’ll have a return to feudalism, albeit of a corporate variety.
3
Churchill once wrote that democracy was the worst system, except for all the others. The same can be said of capitalism. However, there are many flavors of capitalism, and the Scandinavian variety is, in many ways, the best.
4
I can't help but believe that democratic socialism is the way to go. Look at Germany today, a wealthy, compassionate society with relatively free education and healthcare. Even an American citizen reportedly qualifies for benefits. It's called equitable distribution of wealth. And unlike our current system, its ethical according to God, Mr. GOP. I'd bet my bottom dollar such a system would work here. That is, if the Republicans hadn't just stolen it.
7
It is either ignorantly asinine or deceptively misleading to talk about individual income tax cuts as a percentage of (presumably pretax) income. The tax rate of many people is so low that no tax decrease will be a significant percent of their pretax income. Conversely, the tax rate of some people is so high that any decrease in that rate will show up as a significant percent of income. A better measure would be a comparison of the percentage by which tax is decreased at various income levels. Except for people who pay no tax (can't divide by zero), I believe the result would show that lower income people get a much larger proportional tax reduction in the proposed legislation.
Maybe if millennials put down their ipods long enough and looked up once in a while they would have remembered Mitt Romney in 2012 lambasting the 47% who pay no taxes. A new bumper sticker slogan was born: "Makers versus takers."
Trump is Romney on steroids.
Those millennials who chose not to vote for Hillary because she was so old, so unapproachable, so unlikeable, so secretive (you know, that whole email-ly thing and those paid speeches; SHOW US THE TRANSCRIPTS!), and those millennials who cast a protest vote for Stein or Johnson, as well as those persons of color who did the same, are now reaping what they sowed.
Do millennials think the child health care program, Hillary's life's work, would be running out of money now if she were president?
Do millennials even know what the child health care program is?
7
Of course millennials don't remember Mitt Romney in 2012. Many of us weren't even out of high school yet, let alone old enough to vote. It is not fair to blame us for the failings of this country. We are only inheriting what our parents and grandparents gave to us.
2
By the time "Robber" Barron Trump comes of age Millennials will have said goodbye to Social Security, The ACA, and the safetynet of Medicare and Medicaid. But they will be provided a Media-care package insuring that Fox News is on everyone's homepage.
3
Younger people find socialism appealing because they are ignorant, and have nothing invested in their own future.
As they age and have children and own houses and save for retirement and their children's educations, they sober up like everyone else, and realize that free enterprise is the engine of the economy, and demand it be less-fettered by bureaucrats.
1
when in the movie "chinatown" jack nicholson's character jake gittes asks john huston"s character(super wealthy older man) noah cross what more could you possibly want?
"the future mr gitts(sic) the future.
and that's exactly what's happening in this country right now
control of the future is being captured by a few super wealthy older men and women
2
I refuse to see things in such a simplistic way. I still believe in the American dream. There are plenty of opportunities around and we just need to be prepared. I don't think government is evil but I do know I am mostly on my own. What's more rewarding is the process of pursuing my dreams. I can live a much richer life than some rich people. I am just not into private jet that sort of thing. For the tax cut, one way or the other, it doesn't affect me much. One thousand dollars more or one thousand dollars less won't make me richer or poorer. I am just amazed by how politicians can claim the tax cut is for the middle class. Even though I don't think my vote really count, I still vote. At least I can make the statement (at ballot box) that you (GOP) lie!
Of course I am totally against communism. Although I think democracy is not working either. Stupid, it is the human nature. Because of human nature, communism can never work. We have selfish genes. Because of human nature, democracy is merely a good concept. We are prone to "red meat" issues. But I do believe capitalism is still the best system. What people should realize is we only have crony capitalism. Unlike Mr. Bannon, I see the "administrative state" in a much broader sense. The government industrial complexes creat the ruling elites. We are merely under their mercy. But they do need technocrats to generate wealth in order to sustain their class. We just need to work hard so we can be useful to them. We will be rewarded
The following is a quote/excerpt from a science fiction story called "Gypsy" by Carter Scholz. To me the wealth redistribution bill the Republicans just rammed through is an all too clear sign that yes, this is in fact exactly what’s happening now.
“I thought it was the leaders, the nations, the corporations, the elites, who were out of touch, who didn’t understand the gravity of our situation. I believed in the sincerity of their stupid denials – of global warming, of resource depletion, of nuclear proliferation, of population pressure. I thought them stupid. But if you judge them by their actions instead of their rhetoric, you can see that they understood it perfectly and accepted the gravity of it very early. They simply gave it up as unfixable. Concluded that law and democracy and civilization were hindrances to their continued powers. Moved quite purposely and at speed toward this dire world they foresaw, a world in which, to have the amenities even of a middle-class life – things like clean water, food, shelter, energy, transportation, medical care – you would need the wealth of a prince. You would need legal and military force to keep desperate others from seizing it. Seeing that, they moved to amass such wealth for themselves as quickly and ruthlessly as possible, with the full understanding that it hastened the day they feared.”
2
Any economic system which punishes children for being born poor by denying them adequate healthcare deserves to perish.
5
Like most children, Michelle's Millennials will eventually grow up. In the meantime, while they're whining I'll be working. Together, we'll make income inequality a self-fulfilling prophecy.
1
America is in no way exceptional. America was the lucky recipient of geography during WWII. Our country wasn’t destroyed and we got to play leader when everywhere else was. America reaped decades of that benefit, but now it’s run out. Now everyone is “angry” and asking “where did our country go?” It went where you sent it, squandering away riches and sewing strife. My God is better than your God, and My party is better than yours. The average Chinese worker is approaching parity with the average American, while Americans fight over $12/hour jobs at Amazon warehouses. You all look for someone to blame, and it’s right in front of you.
3
Yes, the writing's on the wall--but it has been for years. The big question is whether the younger generation will continue to sit out the midterm elections. The turnout for the 2014 election was abysmal. Michael Moore seemed to be tapping into something with his college tours but then pfft. Now we have possibly more youth unable to afford college or inadequately prepared by a school system that just doesn't get it. We can only hope that the younger generation voter turnout and that the candidates running in 2018, match their (and the older generation's) fury.
3
Socialism like Sweden, Germany, France, England yes. Communism is something else (ask Manafort). I suspect you would find many in the Medicare and Social Security group very appreciative of social benefits as opposed to poverty and ill health. The corporations we worked for over the years left a nasty taste. Meritocracies they were not. CEO golden parachute pay and the Goldman Sachs mentality alone argue for socialism as a form of democracy. "Unaccountable minority" sounds like legalized robbery to me. Jail them.
4
This column tends to paint in concretes - black or white. Socialism - as practiced in, say, Canada or the Scandinavian countries - is surely not communism. In those countries, the state (through taxation) provides such "radical" things as universal healthcare, help with college and child care costs. And, though your column points the finger of blame for our predicament directly at the Republican party, the Democrats have been equally culpable for the pickle we're in, no question. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama both moved the party to the center right and kept it there. Finally, it's not just millenials who would trade in our out-of-control capitalism for some version of socialism. Check with many baby boomers and older and they yearn for a party that moves things in a more humane direction - left.
5
A few uber rich reach a point where they sit back, look at what they have, and decide it's enough. Those are the Gates, the Buffets, and a few others.
For the rest of those benefiting from the GOP tax change, it seems they will not be content until they sit in a golden palace, with slaves bowing, and all the ordinary people, far away, are starving, penniless, with no hopes of anything better. The GOP are creating an aristocracy to rival that of France and Russia, people with money, no morals, and having to answer to no one.
The concept of democracy was envisioned by the founders as a way for all to share in the bounty of our nation, the rich and the poor. For decades, political power has been weighted so heavily to the rich that there is little left for anyone else. The accumulation of vast wealth has been the goal of the rich. Now, it appears, with the blessing of the GOP, the accumulation of all wealth is their new goal.
A couple decades ago, economists started warning us that the safety net of social security would have to be lessened for future generations. So, too, will Medicare, all social welfare programs, all in the pursuit of appeasing the new aristocracy of America.
Is it any wonder that millennials would view poorly the American ideal of capitalism which benefits only the already rich?
5
See also the new article on the site that identifies the average SALT deductions by filer by county. Pretty clear who will be hurt by the proposal - VERY wealthy people who pay very high state income and property taxes. Those are exactly the people who SHOULD pay higher taxes - they've got the resources, they're the 1%! Most "average" people will be helped by the tax proposal, from what I can see. But a lot of very rich people who live in the mid-Atlantic and coastal California will see increases. And that's a good thing for income redistribution, right - even liberals should support that!!!
1
I've considered myself a socialist since I was maybe twelve years old and was a member of the Socialist Workers Party many years ago. I thought I had seen every harm capitalism could throw our way, but the announcement that CVS may buy Aetna and become a "medical center" of sorts was the final insult of capitalism. We have lost our minds, and I'm ready as ever to vote for any socialist who gets on the ballot.
3
first, let's note the conspicuous absence of any irony in your note that a substantial admission fee was charged for a debate between pro-capitalists and socialists. the capitalists won that one. more importantly, I don't think that by "socialist" your millennials advocate a political or economic theory of social organization that advocates communal ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange. setting aside that much of our national budget is already dedicated to doing just that: government administered entitlement programs. my three 20-somethings want greater fairness, which necessarily turns on whom we elect to shape and operate those programs. did you happen to poll your audiences to see who actually votes?
1
Taxation without representation. . . . hmm has a ring to it.
1
I'm the founder of a growing business. I've spent 20 years developing expertise in one domain. I work 80 hours per week and I don't take vacations.
If the US sticks with capitalism, I will hire more people. If we become a socialist country, I will shut down my business or move it to a capitalist country.
SK- Well, bully for you. In case you hadn’t noticed there are plenty of examples of socialism in the ol’ US of A: police, military, fire protection, insurance of all sorts, public education, infrastructure, Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security. Socialism is not communism; it’s a way socializing costs across all citizens for the benefit of all, not just the few. In fact you could look as capitalism as way to socialize costs in order to privatize gains, especially true in this country.
2
Capitalism will destroy the planet, as it already is. Millenials are more environmentally attuned then prior generations, and they understand that it will be collective - not individual - action that will lead to a sustainable future. Capitalism as an ideology and economic system does not work any more if our goal is to lift all boats; if it's the jungle, as seems to be the case, then we are sliding to oblivion.
2
Some things just make sense to be socialized because they are needed by everybody. These things are major social services like roads, water, electricity, telephone, transportation, internet, healthcare, education, defense, housing, etc...
3
Oh but what about Generation X? Didn't we predict this back in the 80s? I remember an article in The Atlantic that clearly spelled it out.
I've already contributed over $100k into Medicare and Social Security, my entire generation has, via automatic payroll deductions. It's just blatant theft what the Republicans in congress are doing right now. They are stealing from everyone under the age of 60.
7
This American conflation of the Soviet Union and Communism with a the desire for a basic welfare state, as it exists in literally every other western country, including places like Canada and Australia which are virtually indistinguishable from the United States, IS LAUGHABLE.
Not to be too hard on the author, who’s on the right side of things, but the left must stop apologizing in advance and trafficking in the Right’s tired cliches when it comes to discussing these matters.
Never forget that the ONLY thing the captains of the Right are interested in is keeping their vast amounts of money by any means necessary. The republican “base” is manipulated to serve this end, against their interest. There is no genuine fear of communism, there’s only a fear of a 55% tax on income over some multimillion threshold.
The left must speak confidently against this, not try to rationalize these lies into its policy.
3
I think Michelle has it wrong. It's not simply capitalism anymore, like we had from WWII until the Reagan era. Reagan instituted Feudalism, where benefits go primarily to the rich, who then may choose to dole them out to their vassals and serfs. Now with our current President, we have added Fascism, as well as "the Divine Right of the King." It asserts that a monarch is subject to no earthly authority, deriving the right to rule directly from the will of God. The king is thus not subject to the will of his people. Since our president feels that he himself IS God, we have our state of affairs. This has been clearly proven first by his election, and now by passage of a tax plan which has the support of only 1/4 of his "subjects."
3
""Academic economists are basically unanimous that the Republican tax plan would increase America’s deficit, which Republicans used to pretend to care about""
Yes, and which the left has never even remotely cared about. Its only when your endless gravy-train of petty-federal-theft is slowed down slightly that you start flailing and rolling and declaring it to be the end of the world.
1
It was the excesses of communism and the self-serving politicians that did in the Soviet Union:
a bloated, over-extended military,
a ridiculous oppressive ideology imposed on the people while the party faithful thrived no matter how corrupt and incompetent,
and it was the young people that pulled away first--talked about the ludicrous imbalances and hypocrisy in the state, and simply turned their backs on the Soviet government and empire that took from the people in every way to empower the state and party loyalists.
See what happens when a government is run by men and "a certain kind of women" (as a Russian journalist described it to my class) who put party and ideology over the well being of people and society?
Like the Soviets, we are way out of balance, with a phony extremist capitalist ideology that worships money, elevates the power of corporations (Citizens United), takes from the middle class and poor to give to the rich, and actively works against the best interests of society and its people.
And if any political party can do things that will put the U.S. government and society out of balance and run it into the ground, it is the Republican party--backed by the likes of the far right wing Kochs and big corporations that contribute to and control both parties, and run by immoral, corrupt and corruptible politicians (of both parties, although one party is worse than the other).
Not smart to rip off and alienate young people. It is only a matter of time...
2
This 70 year old hates capitalism too!!!!! For a lot of the same reasons you enumerated in your column today. My scholarship athlete daughter who just completed her Ph.D. can't find full time employment! Consequently, we are helping her survive and because of that, can't retire! But you characterize the Trump era as the "raw exercise of power by a tiny unaccountable minority that believes in its own superiority". I agree! The only problem is that this tiny minority have been exercising their power for over 100 years. FDR and the New Deal was the disrupter that the "old money" people have wanted to squash for the past 70 years. This minority doesn't want a middle class. Just rich and poor. Like the "good old days".
3
Calls for the diminution, restructuring or elimination of capitalism always read like a case of losers remorse by those who can't or won't compete.
1
Life is a competition? Seems like an empty philosophy. Who are you trying to best and why? Outside of Ayn Rand, I just can't think of a philosophy or religion that views competition as a core tenet. Are you winning? Are you in the top 1% or the top 0.01%? Are you number 120,000,000 or the 320,000,000 in this country? What are the rules of this competition? Are they agreed upon by all the participants? If you cheat are you rewarded or penalized? Do we all start at the same place? If you have a IQ of 60 do you have to compete? If your mother drank while you where gestating...if you lost your parents when you were 9...if you grew up on the east side of Cleveland and you saw your brother shot right in front of you...if you developed schizophrenia when you were 18...If you were molested at 14 by a 30 year old man...if you lost your business because the economy collapsed...are you just a loser that can't or won't compete? I am not a religious person, but I have a heart and a strong sense of moral duty...can you say the same?
2
It’s amazing how in the dark literally everyone is. Let me drop some breadcrumbs for those in search for answers that make sense. Riddle me this? What is Capitalism without a functioning regulatory system? What is Capitalism in the absence of coherent law? What is Capitalism in the face of a judiciary that upholds the law faithfully? Has anyone picked up on Bono’s recent and repetitive “Fall of Rome” proclamation? Alternative “isms” without a reckoning of the above mean nothing.
1
Poor old Grassley and Hatch. Born in 1933 and 1934, respectively, their comments betray their inability to keep up with the world of today, much less comprehend modern tax law or economics. Their world view was formed as youngsters in the late 1930’s and through the 1940’s, probably influenced by their parents (likely born around the beginning of the last century) and their grandparents (born circa 1880’s). When Chuck Grassley was growing up in rural Iowa in the early 1940’s, “movies” were a newfangled indulgence and men squandering money on “booze and women” was a major social problem, at least in his mind, and still is to this day!
1
If Senator Hatch were really concerned about the supposed freeloaders in our country, he would vigorously support the right of all women to have ready access to birth control and abortion.
1
Where wiil this end? After the Republicans wring every last cent from us, and still ask for more, what then? Will the ultra rich suffer the same fate as the Romanovs? They will get no sympathy from me.
1
The tax plan will certainly prop up the ivory backscratcher industry.
1
My millennial daughter and her friends don't hate capitalism, they seem to like making money and are good at it and all are Democrats with strong humanitarian values.
1
Millennials malign capitalism because of the failure of public education in the US. If history was properly taught, they would know the results of socialism: millions dead, starved or executed, economies destroyed, science and art decimated, the environment raped. Please don’t start with splitting hairs about the difference between communism and socialism. The textbook definition of socialism is the state’s ownership of the means of production. This is what the USSR and the Eastern bloc had. This is what countries of northern Europe do NOT have and never did. Did anybody bother to ask millennials of Russia, Eastern Europe or the Baltic states whether they want to go back to socialism? I bet the results would be very enlightening.
There doesn't seem much of a chance for reforming the US economic system with the current sclerotic septenguarian neoliberals in charge of your country. A revolutionary movement is not something to be wished for because it usually leads to civil war. I am afraid there's probably no hope and you're looking at a very nasty future worthy of a distopian Philip K. Dick story unless some young reformers somehow grab the reins of power.
1
Many millennials (including myself) do question capitalism, and it seems like the republican party hates democracy.
1
Hatch's comment makes no sense. To be placed on CHIP and not just regular Medicaid a family must have earned income above the poverty level. By definition, they are working and unless they are all Stephen Hawking, probably must lift a finger to do so. The bad thing is that I think Hatch and Grassley and the rest actually believe their non-sense.
1
"Human beings, you see, have no inherent value other than the money they earn. Cats have value, for example, because they provide pleasure to the humans. But a deadbeat on welfare? Well, they have negative value." V.M. Varga, Fargo Season 3.
Or was it Robert Mercer?
In the Soviet Union capitalism triumphed over Communism. In this country Capitalism triumphed over Democracy.
Fran Lebowitz
3
"...as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it's on booze or women or movies."
I'm not sure I can think of anything more symbolic of the rot in the Republican party than a senator defending repealing the estate tax while talking about "women" as a commodity to be bought and sold.
2
It's tempting to me ALSO, and I'm an aging hippy!! Capitalism is being abused by the wealthy to the detriment of everybody else. And to make matters WORSE, they're rubbing our noses in it.
1
Capitalism is the economics of social Darwinism. The strong deserve to thrive and the weak deserve what they get. What a shameful state of affairs.
3
Considering the venue, the data are not surprising. What is surprising is the extension of the views of a set of people in a specific location with those of a much broader demographic. As usual, shoddy journalism from an advocate.
We need to reclaim the word " social " , social safety net , social security expansion. I hope there is truly a political revolution from young people , I am ready to join , how about another march on Jan 21 ??
Once again will post list of we should aim for.
http://www.correntewire.com/files/12-point-platform.pdf
1
I can't imagine a more worthless debate than the notion of scraping capitalism. It would be more possible to spot a pink unicorn dancing down the capital steps singing " God Save the Queen."
1
It's not just millennials. There are boomers (like me) who barely finish paying off student debt prior to retirement, who have worked hard for decades and have little or nothing to show for it. The "millennial vs boomer" paradigm is a false dichotomy, one that serves corporate interests - remember "divide and conquer," anyone? The real divisions are socio-economic, the 1% against everyone else. The superwealthy 1% would do well to remember that a smart parasite does not kill its host. Because parasites is exactly what they are.
3
This screed is total baloney. Millennials love Socialism because their schools have failed them after a generation of Leftist “education” camps. They don’t know how good they have it even with 8 years of a slow growing economy that has left many of them behind. Since the rich pay most of the taxes they will benefit from the bulk of the tax cuts. Small businesses are the primary growth drivers in the economy and that is where the tax bill is mostly targeted. As Millennials earn higher paying jobs with a targeted high growth tax plan they will forget about failed Socialist ideas that the whole world tries to escape from.
2
It’s not just the brand “capitalism” that’s diminished: democracy, religion, rule of law and a host of other belief systems have been warped and misused in the most vile ways and are taking a hit. There’s nothing left but looting and identity politics.
1
The Republicans must be out of office by 2021 or the country will be unstable.
1
I'm almost 40. It's very difficult to speak with my father about our country. Not because he's conservative, he's not, but because he believes in his generation. The baby boomers believed that they changed something. And, in many ways they did - but, it changed back. I've always said to him - America is a conservative country and getting worse. He blames it on Republicans but I believe it is something much deeper. We haven't come to terms with the lies of capitalism. The dialectic of adverse ideologies is what helped working families in the postwar era. Why believe in communism when you can have a nice union job right here in the midwest of the great US of A!!!? Try talking to a baby boomer about unions - they don't get it!!!
As a 55 year old Russian colleague of mine recently complained - I would have never come to the US, spent my whole life here, raised my family here if I had not known that it was so difficult. Everything you do you have to pay for yourself - housing, transportation, child support, education, etc. meanwhile working to the bone... 300 million people in the US and resources really aren't pooled. I think the Millennials can relate to these sentiments. I most definitely do
3
Well to be fair, we've never really seen true capitalism; all we've seen is that those in power, will draw rules to benefit themselves and their ilk financially. That's not capitalism, that's simply greedy crooks.
2
The pointless search for morality within capitalism.
2
I am an older millennial (late 20s) and I am so sick of my parents’ generation constantly pointing fingers at us. We are called lazy, entitled, narcissistic, petty. We are blamed for all of our problems from high debt to poor job prospects to low home ownership.
Our generation is not without its problems. I fear for younger millennial who grew up with smartphones and social media. I know my age group is struggling with the question of whether having (and affording) children is even a viable option.
But despite our purported laziness and entitlement, we will be coming up from the rear to clean up the mess of our parents’ generation once again. What happened to the spirit of the Civil Rights and Vietnam eras? Why, when you’ve done so much, are you hellbent on leaving the world in a worse shape than you found it?
2
Michelle is too young, or naive, or both, to understand that what we have in the United States today is not capitalism.
It is a soft version of _oligarchy_, the rule by a corrupt few.
Were Michelle and her "Jacobin" colleagues - a pity they haven't studied and learned from the violence and devastation caused by the original Jacobins - to study economics, and learn a bit about how our markets and industries and companies actually operate today, they would realize how far these all diverge from capitalism as that term is understood.
For starters, we do not have real competition in many of our leading industries.
In technology, we have abuse of market power by firm after firm after firm. For example, in the advertising technology sector, we have a company which acts as both the holder of an auction AND the bidder AND the seller - all at the same time! Why and how does our DOJ allow this absurd situation? Can you imagine one company that played the role of NASDAQ, Goldman and Blackrock/Fidelity/State Street - all at the same time, in the same market? Absurd.
In health care, in finance, in residential real estate and god knows how many other sectors, similar distortions are the rule. Powerful players tilt the odds, break the rules, manipulate the market to their benefit.
This is not free or fair market competition.
This is not capitalism.
This is the warping and domination of a fake marketplace by politically-connected insiders.
Ours is a 2nd Robber Baron Era.
3
Donald Trump is the Louis XVI of today but, by and large, the people are too stuffed with bread and circuses to revolt.
2
GOP Fiscal policy: Redirect all the wealth and tax cuts to the wealthiest...then blame and bash everyone else for being poor; use words like "Lazy", "Bad Choices", and of course, "Losers" for the Trump Era.
1
Capitalism is going through a difficult time, as its problems are trumpeted by a bevy of undeserving louts, no Horatio Alger among them, braying their entitlements and demanding more. It's hard to understand Trump's riches in particular as resulting from anything other than luck and relentless self-promotion, the former of which cannot be cultivated and the latter of which society doesn't need. Thus a system that lavishes resources on such an ignorant, illiterate, talentless buffoon seems to deserve all the criticism it receives.
Others in the Trump club seem to have some measure of ability, but this is typically drowned out by their enthusiasm for rigging the game in their favor in case they can't win on merit. The only thing economical about them is their way with the truth.
This is a shame because more traditional moderate American capitalism has a great deal going for it. The current trend towards radical capitalism run by greedy, glutinous aspiring nobles seems likely to throw out the capitalism's baby with its bathwater, if not take us all the way to the guillotine.
1
I'm no Marxist, but capitalism is nothing more than economic Darwinism: survival of the richest. And there is no moral code attached to it (unless an egalitarian government does so). So it's win by any means necessary. It drives me crazy that many of the people voting Republican who aren't rich claim to be Christians, yet they support politicians who work to make the rich richer. Why do Christians not see the irony in this? Do they no longer read the Gospels and what Jesus has to say about the rich (nothing good) and what he says about the poor (we should help them)? What a disgusting, demoralizing mess our country is in. And all I can do is preach to the choir here on the NYT website. I can't help think the world is about to end, either as prophesied in the Bible, or just because we as a species have collectively failed to make the decisions necessary to survive. If this is a nightmare, please, someone, wake me up.
2
Think what would happen if all Millennials would actually VOTE!
1
Linton, Hatch and Grassley? Really? Somehow the mice got control of the big block of cheese, holes and all and are busy gnawing even more holes in it....and likely to get more bloated than they already are. Linton roles is more like manifestation of cancerous tumor feeding off Mnuchins cancerous wealth. Grassley needs to take a sociology class and Hatch is just a greedy old man.
There is a revolution coming. They take time for the anger to build. But one is coming none the less. The forces on the left, reduced to skin and bones in some cases, are coalescing around some basics: access to universal healthcare, improved race relations, immigration, jobs in the new economy, and access to good food. Not fancy...just good.
1
All these years, we were told by our leaders, teachers, professors, books, press, and parents that we should worry about Socialism, Communism, and a “Dictatorship of the Proletariat”.
Today, the opposite confronts US: the hard right wing of the American Republican Party, its oligarchs, and corporations control Congress, the White House, and (no doubt soon) the Supreme Court.
As a result, the USA now has a “Dictatorship of the Corporations” running and ruining OUR big American show.
What more proof do YOU need?
Read this 400-500 page corporate tax cut bill THEY passed.
Then, read and talk about what American colonists did when English Parliament passed (and its military imposed) the Stamp Act on US.
What should be done? Protest, of course. Take this fight to the streets!
Where are all the millennials who camped out on Wall Street several years ago in the dead of winter?
This bill isn’t law yet. It isn’t too late. Not yet.
1
They don’t know much about history do they? The old communist trick argument drawing attention to the short comings of capitalism while not having any idea how fix them is alive and well. If your car was stuck out on the road would you want the tow truck operator give a jump or lecture you on the injustices of capitalism which caused your battery to die? Does he know where the battery is?
Not surprised they are turning towards socialism, like their sixties counterparts they don’t know how well off they will be in the future and will have no idea what life is like outside their elite circle is. Now they have media and apps to brain wash them into not what to believe but what to buy. And oh boy they want to buy and since they can’t afford it they want it for free.
They don’t need that old time religion. A new morality is being created for them. Did you read what Elon Musk said people who don’t drive self driving cars? He said they were murders. Wait Musk builds a self driving cars. I’ll buy one from him: absolution. They’re working on it.
800 million jobs are about to be lost to AI and to the modern socialist it’s not a problem. They will be invested in it which brings up a problem can a rich person that benefits from others misery of others and get into Musk heaven? Only if he upgrades to the “sick” model.
The 1% owns the GOP and gets what it wants when it wants it. The GOP offers anti abortion and pro religion legislation to keep the masses quiet and vote GOP. Trump lies constantly and does not care if it comes out as he just calls anything he doesn't like fake news. Authoritarian to the core Trump marches the country toward fascism and the GOP is only to happy to enable him as he will protect the 1% as they tell the masses to eat cake.
1
This is a terrible article. It purports to discuss capitalism, then it segways into a diatribe against the Republican tax bill. The tax bill is indeed horrible. But it is not capitalism or about capitalism. it is about capturing the democratic political system with the consent of the unwitting governed.
Capitalism is the market economy. A market economy has its excesses that require regulation but it basically works.
Social safety net programs, for example, have nothing to do with capitalism, pro or con.
Our revulsion for Capitalism originates from the downward spiral of our Democracy. We are no longer represented, we are ruled. Why? Because your vote has been twisted (gerrymandering, Electoral College), your voice has been neutered (Citizens United), and your representatives are bent on putting Party before people and any semblance of moral authority. Capitalism needs a government Of, By, and For the People. Now that we don’t have that, money is power and power will rule. This is now “The American Way”.
2
EXCELLENT column. Michelle Goldberg is a stellar addition to the NYT op-ed staff.
1
With “capitalists” like Mr. Trump, what is there to like?
1
I wouldn't ascribe these radical tendencies to capitalism, an extreme version of an social or economic framework can pervert it. I do think capitalism is the best tool, but what we are witnessing here is gluttony, and I don't know how we are going to reign it in.
1
Justifying greed is pretty easy for an American: "they're lazy, I'm not. So I'm deserving of everything I earn (low taxes), and they're not deserving of any aid or healthcare." It is easy to believe Fox when it shows you the path to justifying your own greed. You are just helping those lazy people by making them responsible for themselves. And if they don't become responsible, lock 'em up!
Life is simple for many
1
These people are sociopaths and can be widely exposed as such. Except of course that it is entirely legal for these rich sociopaths to own the media and then lie to the public about the "evils" of every other monetary construct except the one which they now control not with ideas, but with pure money. Unfettered capitalism. Capitalism or Socialism or Communism or whatever ism you want to espouse, must have a braking system to keep it from its worst incarnations. Democracy is that brake and right now the US would not pass for instance, Virginia inspection, the brakes are not working and are desperately in need of repair. 2017 inspection report for US government: REJECTED DO NOT DRIVE
1
Capitalism or democratic socialism, the fundamental issue is this: are we going to make effective birth control available to every sexually active person on the planet and convince them to use it? If not, this debate will in the future be seen as a silly waste of time.
2
Oligarchs forget the torches and pitchforks at their peril. I think they're in the offing.
5
Fasten your seatbelts! The next milestone on the journey of economic development is feudalism. At least, Communism offers an alternative to Feudalism.
1
Thank you Michelle Goldberg. This is a superior article, and it is every bit of the truth.
2
Human nature is at work here. Human nature is flawed because it has the capacity to corrupt anything, religion, government, any ism we try to develop.
The Founding Fathers understood this, just read the Federalist Papers and you will see their reasoning for setting up the government they devised; these were wise men, yet it seems they cast pearls before swine; 241 years later, we are trashing their gift.
Human nature's ability to create and to tear down, to flock like scared sheep around clever sociopaths who can manipulate them, creating problems where there are none in order to stay on top is at work here.
The malignant tumor that infects us is the Republican Party and its poster-boy, Donald Trump, an entity with a narcissistic black hole, a party that would sow evil to the point of destroying our Constitution, our treasure, to stay in power.
Everyone has rights and the power of the vote, from the most nefarious sociopath to the willfully ignorant dolt who will destroy anything he or she doesn't comprehend. We run the gamut from the elites of the manipulators and exploiters to the elites of the ignorant. Woe to the thinking, educated person.
It's a mess, folks, and I don't know where this will end.
1
"It’s the raw exercise of power by a tiny unaccountable minority that believes in its own superiority."
NO, no. You miss the point completely!! The exercise of power is by people who got elected and who will stand for election again and again. They are accountable. And even if they are helped by Gerrimandering, they are not tiny.
The problem is that about half of the country believes in trickle down, and believes that all you need to succeed is individual gumption and hard work.
Treat them as wrong, not evil. Point out the evidence that they are mistaken, don't just raz them for their stupidest pandering moments.
1
There is a reason why American capitalism looks like the god that failed. Along with our democracy, capitalism is failing anyone in this country who wasn't born into a wealthy family. Every generation is being robbed. Now that it is clear fascism can come to America, we all must seriously wonder whether there is any way to save our democracy -- and capitalism.
2
"Communism" or Marxist-Leninism is socialistic but it's not the same as socialism, of which there are many different varieties - sects, if you will. Many versions of socialism are democratic, some are more tolerant of capitalism or capitalistic practices than others. Heck, even Lenin was not completely anti-capitalist; that's what NEP was about.
Young people are not stupid, I'm sure they can see through the false equivalency put forward by the Communist Memorial Foundation quite easily when it attempts to equate "socialism" with the Communist states of Eastern Europe and Asia. That kind of equivocation is a surefire way to convince young people (or anyone else) the opposite of what you hope to convince them, it's like arguing that the interstate highway system is fascist because Hitler supported the autobahn.
If you want to turn young people away from socialistic ideologies you'll have to convince them that capitalism, a system under which most of them are going to lose, can nevertheless do a better job of distributing resources not only more plentifully than a socialistic one, but also with sufficient equity to give even the losers a stake in the system.
Historically, that has actually been the case. But it's only been the case where the savagery of the market has been tempered by a regulatory and welfare state capable of checking the system's worst excesses. With the right aiming to do away with that kind of state who can blame people for losing faith?
1
I would have liked to hear more about the conference, which your introductory paragraphs led me to believe that the article would include discussing capitalism, and other economic systems, with millennials. The statics were interesting, but not especially enlightening.
1
I am the parent of millennials and I would be just fine with socialism. I think the reason more people in my generation are against it is that some of us remember the McCarthy era and the fact that people lost their jobs, careers and homes for supporting socialism. Also, the socialist countries we grew up knowing were not that great (USSR, Communist China). But many of the capitalist countries were pretty bad too (Chile, El Salvador, Honduras). In the 1950s through the early '80s it seemed like capitalism with safety net programs and government regulation of big business as it existed in the U.S. and Western Europe was probably the best that humanity could do. And enough people were doing well enough in their jobs and careers that nobody wanted to rock the boat too much. But things have pretty much gone straight downhill in the 21st Century. The rich and the corporations have been tightening the clamps on working people pretty much relentlessly and the government has not done much to stop them or even slow them down. Any thinking person of any age or generation is ready for a change, unless they are a hedge fund manager or billionaire.
10
At some point in time we will have to deal with the increasing population growth. especially with global warming. In a planet with limited resources, if the scientists are right we will have rising sea levels that will force us to migrate to the available areas still habitable. That will only increase the pressure on producing enough food, and shelter in a limited land area.
Capitalism depends on increasing production of more and more new products to feed always increasing profits for an insatiable corporate growth. To have a sustainable planet we will have to restrain our consumption to balance out the precious resources we have left.
If we are to have any fair balance of this future scenario, we will have to learn how to share what we have left.
8
Ms. Goldberg. It sounds like this article is seeking an alternative to the capitalist system in our country.
If our country is based on a capitalist, free market economy system, it is still a better system than the communist, totalitarian and one party rule system, we see in various other places in the world.
The problem lies not with our system. It is how the system is allowed to function. There is no perfect system of government we can see in this world. As you say in your article, the rich are getting richer, and the poor continuing to be poorer. Why should it be that way? Those elected to Office, and voted by the people see it. However, they are not doing anything to arrest the problem of the disparity.
If the recent tax reform proposals is seen as not benefiting all people, there is a problem there. Why do our elected representatives not see that?
Having a capitalist system, is not to say that there should not be government involvement on spending for services to the people. Government should be there to cover areas such as health care, education, infrastructure needs, etc.
China continues with its communist ideology. The country has amassed so much wealth, becoming an economic super power. Does this mean, China has a better system than us?
We cannot find the answers here.
Your subject today, should have a continued debate and discussion, to help find better ideas to seek the answers to all the questions, we all have.
1
I agree with Michelle Goldberg's column, and certainly agree with her critique of the current tax cut bill, but nevertheless the I am disturbed by the premises of the column.
On the one hand, captialism is presented in the Ayn Rand version that seems to be taking over the Republican Party, even though it has little support in opinion polls. On the other hand "socialism" is presented as an alternative attractive to millennials, without any consideration as to whether we're talking about Swedish-type socialism or Soviet-type socialism. The middle ground of social democracy has disappeared from the discussion.
And indeed news reports indicate that center-left parties are in decline throughout Europe, as well as, perhaps, in the United States. So here's my question for millennials: Are you so disaffected regarding capitalism that you won't fight for a center-left candidate when pitted against an Ayn Rand candidate, because both are, at bottom pro-capitalist?
3
Those of us who grew up during the height of the Cold War were taught that communism equals totalitarianism. China, and the USA have shown that totalitarianism is possible under a capitalist economy.
2
We have a mixed economy for three reasons.
1. We are longer a nation of farmers, but a nation of laborers.
2. Business owners, and then managers have exploited labor, the public trust, the environment, and each-other.
3. Markets need to be dynamic, and are stifled by too much planning.
So, for labor without land, we have welfare, social security, unemployment insurance, and health and safety regulations. For the public trust we have securities laws and anti-trust legislation. But these measures are often too little and too late. And too much power is in the hands of Oligarchs. How do we reduce the power of the Oligarchs? Taxes aimed primarily at the wealthy. A progressive income tax. An estate tax. Various luxury taxes. How to the Oligarchs respond? Reduce taxes and eliminate the safety net that shifts the power to labor. We also have a consumer economy, so labor must be paid enough to bolster spending overall. That's the rub for the Oligarchs. They would prefer to keep all the money (and power) to themselves.
5
Equating socialism with what developed in the Soviet Union is ahistorical -- and just wrong. What developed in the Soviet Union was, thanks to Stalin, a reactionary nationalism and continuation of traditional Russian imperialism overseen by a Czar -- a Red Czar. And it didn't have to be that way. Read up on Bukharin and the "Right Deviationists" -- a group of Bolsheviks who tried to oppose Stalin's tyranny and lost -- and also lost their heads. There is no true socialism without democracy. See, e.g., Norway.
15
How to explain it to millennials? Easy. Millennials voted (or couldn’t be bothered to vote) without a thought for the real consequences of suffering and destruction. Tell me again there’s no difference between R and D. Ask again what the Democrats have done for you.
They voted their privilege and their egos, not their consciences. And voila, here we are. Suffering and destruction coming your, my, and our way.
5
Congress is where laws and budgets are made.
The GOP has had Congress 6 of 8 years under Obama, 6 of 8 years under Bush, 6 of 8 years under Clinton. The Dems had Congress 2 years of every 8.
And you want to ask what the DEMS have done for the society?
1
In a system with safety nets for the most vulnerable member of society, there will always be freeloaders. For liberals to deny it undermines their credibility and therefore their argument. But we decide to live with and absorb a little freeloading in order to reap the wider social benefits that come from a safety net. Things like protection for your daughter with an IQ of 78 who won't become a Wall Street mogul, or the person who can't work much because of debilitating arthritis, etc. And besides, so what if some guy is feigning disability in order to get $800 a month from Uncle Sam. It's barely a living. And it's less than pennies compared to the freeloading by the very rich through the tax code.
13
I worked and lived in a society like that. Read up on what Luxembourg has.
The Republicans are playing by the book: 'Verelendung' (impoverishment) is according to Karl Marx an unfortunate, but necessary stage towards socialism.
That's exactly what this new tax bill brings to millions of Americans, especially to Mr. Trumps supporters.
Perhaps in this re-run of the 19th century the US will be blessed by a decent, humane social-democratic movement to tame raw capitalism and avoid 'Jacobinism'.
5
Nothing has done more to promote impoverishment that the Welfare state, which was implemented by the Democrats over 50 years ago and has trapped generations in chronic poverty by making them dependent on subsistence levels of government support.
1
We were taught to revile communism not because of its tenets but because the very wealthy wersterners feared a similar end to the tsar of Russia and his family. Fear of losing money was the motivation as it was for McCarthyism and Russophobia. While "pracitcal communism" became nothing but dictatorship, oligarchy, and pyramid scheme, capitalism is inherently a pyramid scheme, oligarchy, and authoritarian dictatorshiip. It's beyond time for a new and humane economic system and I applaud the young people who see this -- despite the ubiquitous indoctrination of capialism that continues to exist in this country.
3
Ideal : capitalism with social benefits...like the most civilized nations in the world: Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland,Denmark.
14
How can you say it's a tiny minority when every state has about 44 percent Republican? Americans in general have been spoiled and greedy and apparently Millenials have caught on to it. But it's still just an urban trend apparently.
Its obvious that the world can not sustain exponential growth, which a goal of capitalism, maybe the prime goal. The result of that growth: Animal extinctions, climate change, pollution, in equality, the mid Pacific floating garbage dump. Its time to dump the system that produces that.
5
The malignant symptoms of our unjust economy does not mean the underlying disease is capitalism. We are now infected with a dose of kleptocracy...our government and economy is controlled small group of insiders who own more and more of the national wealth. Those plutocrats have been stripped of any loyalty to our national interest: they see the government is a tool of enrichment. Thus tax law after tax law is written to enrich them at the expense of our society. Their donations buy the loyalty of elected officials.
Communism succumbed to the same malady; insiders enjoyed state subsidized luxury as the masses lived in a state of hopelessness. Alcoholism was Communism's opioid addiction.
The malady infecting capitalism, communism and every other "ism" is human nature. We are a greedy species: those on top fight to stay there - it is a mutation of an innate survival instinct. Switching "isms""will not improve the plight of the average citizen. An existential crisis threatening the species, such as extreme climate change, may bring us together in a battle for collective survival. Short of that the pattern of human conduct will continue: emperors, Pharos, kings, dictators, paid for politicians and their benefactors will thrive and rule; the rest of us either get along or if sufficiently fed up, revolt and replace the old guard with a new band of crooks.
3
The value of the existence of the Soviet Union to the people of the U.S. was as a potential alternative that kept the powerful and wealthy in the U.S. in check. They knew that they needed to moderate the tendencies of the capitalist system in order to blunt any attraction to the socialist alternative. Once the Soviet Union imploded that moderating influence vanished. And here we are.
4
One of the reasons European countries have been able to blend capitalism with socialism is that they have had relatively homogeneous populations, especially norther European countries. This has meant that taking care of those less fortunate has been seen as helping other members of the "tribe." Recent events have shown, however, that as refugees, migrants and even workers from other nations in the EU mix these populations, there is an increasing identification and resentment of the "other." Years ago, friends in Germany ranted against Turks who were working in their chastened nation with the same vitriol as their parents once demonized the Jews.
Here in this country of immigrants, we systematically either killed or isolated the original inhabitants. Then, generation after generation of newcomers - slaves and free immigrants alike - were denigrated and exploited by the American plutocracy. Fortunately, for many newcomers, there was enough land and resources to enable them to achieve independence and fiscal autonomy. westward, Their agricultural and manufacturing supplied the rest of the nation and justified their eventual inclusion as essential members of the national fabric. Then, they too fingered the next generation of immigrants as "other" and unworthy of support
Depression, war, revolution and/or climate change will shake up the system, and we will have to rely on a coalition of the selfless to attenuate our tribalism -until the next time.
1
Let's not claim that capitalism has no moral theory. Adam Smith wrote extensively about the morals of capitalism when he wrote of those who would be "masters of mankind." The ideal of the free-market buccaneers is a society made up of individuals each seeking to maximize their own personal gain. Put simply, this is an ideology of naked self interest over the interests of the community. Margaret Thatcher put it quite honestly: there is no society, only individual men and women.
Capitalism thus is built of a self-interested morality. Socialism was captured by the proposal of Loius Blanc in the 1830s that those in need should receive help and those with ability should provide that help. When you see a drowning child you should help--something that we all know is right--and this is consistent with the socialist value, not the capitalist value, which taken seriously would not lead to saving the growing child unless there is something to gain for the rescuer. We all know that a child should be helped whether there is a pay off or not, although the Republican Senators quoted in this article seem to have lost their way.
2
Adam Smith also specified that Capitalism had to be regulated.
Adam Smith wrote about economies, not necessarily Capitalism. He also wrote about a progressive tax system that taxed enough to sustain and improve the society in order to pass down a better world than the one we inherited.
1
South Korea is arguably the most anticommunist country/society in the world. If you you speak favorably or distribute materials supporting Marxism, you can be subject to prosecution. However, that doesn't prevent us from enjoying a responsive goverment, a single-payer universal health-care system, a well maintained infrastructure, and an excellent public transportation system.
3
Socialism is not communism and not drawing that distinction more clearly does everyone reading the article a disservice. Sweden and Norway are not Russia. When you see how people live in these societies is it any wonder more millennial are leaning towards Socialism?
9
Millenials already know that they are going to be left holding an empty bag .
No social safety net for them , just lots of debt.
I admire their minimalism, their cool approach to life .
Their philosophy that “being” is more important than “having ” is exceptional .
May their future be blessed by accomplishing what they treasure most in life .
6
What is capitalism doing for millennials? Teens and young adults can see that we are leaving them a very damaged planet, as well as an unjust system. They also see insanity of the racism, 50's era sexual mores of people like Donald Trump, and the idea of separating from the rest of the world to pursue a 19th century vision of moving forward with unregulated capitalism.
The new tax bill is just what will drive more young people away from this destructive system that is rigged against the cities and states where many live, work, and pay dearly for education. This feels like massive overreach, and may be the final straw in the willingness of a younger generation to accept business as usual.
4
The end game of Capitalism is that one person owns everything. I sure hope it's me!
1
The corrupt tax bill passed by Republicans in the dark of night was a corrupt tax bill. If they had done a similar thing in a democratic socialist government, communist government, theocratic government, or any government with a legislative body that votes on such things, it would still be corrupt. And that is the problem.
Capitalism relies on some basic assumptions to arrive at the "greatest good" promise expected to be doled out by Adam Smith's notion of an invisible hand. One of the most fundamental assumptions is that all that is knowable gets reflected in the decisions made rational decision makers. Another is that the power to decide and choose what happens in the economy is sufficiently diffuse to stop one organization or person from dictating the market value or availability of goods and services.
As we can see, that is not the world we are living in. A few shills for a minority of business interests just ignored what most of us know to be a harmful and undesirable tax (and health insurance) policy and are preparing to shove it down our throats. The result will further corrupt the function of business in our country and throughout the world. That is a far cry from an of the ideals that has been used to sell capitalism. Why should anyone be surprised that those who are not benefitting from the unabashed corruption at hand are not in favor of the system through which it works?
1
The author confuses capitalism with free markets. Capitalism is the belief that employers own all the wealth their employees create, and can do with it as they see fit. An economic system in which workers kept more of that wealth could exist with socialist components.
I don't have time to discuss this in detail. See Bismarck's comments (below) for further thoughts.
Socialism and communism are not the same. The former is primarily an economic approach and the latter a political approach. This explains why a communist country like China can have both capitalist and socialist economic sectors.
2
Thank you for giving a broad stroke about the subject. So, for me it is down to a couple basic questions. What is more destabilizing and threatening to our democracy....a congress disdainful to the person living paycheck to paycheck or a Congress passing a bill that they find a need to blame its citizens who have less money and privilege than they do? This is a sad day for Americans.
1
It is important to remember that the rich make their money by selling to everyone else. We have been conditioned by advertising, glitzy catalogues, TV shows, fashion trends decided by a few people, and the "you must have the latest version of every gadget" syndrome to spend, spend, spend, consume, consume, consume like locusts.
If the rest of us bought less of the junk the rich are selling, we would have more money in our pockets to feel secure with, they would be less rich, and we would probably be a lot happier and less stressed. (And the world would be less polluted.)
A Native American interviewed on NPR yesterday, when presented with the statistical fact that he lived in one of the poorest regions in the US said (paraphrased), we are not poor, we have everything we need... The government says that people who earn less than a certain figure are poor and many people in that income bracket do suffer, but if basic needs are met (including healthcare) the poverty equation changes.
One comment here mentioned Germany and how happy the Germans seem to be. Germans consume far less junk than Americans and save more. Their basic needs are met. Let's start there and see what happens.
2
At the top of this page today there is an ad for a diamond-studded Omega watch. A photograph shows one of these being worn by a beautiful female model in a huge sailboat somewhere in, maybe, the Mediterranean. (Prices of watch, model and boat are not given.) What do you think the message is here?
4
Who can afford to live decently in Manhattan, for that matter, without 7 digits a year for income?
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Every American generation has good and bad.
Without going into a complete list, the boomer generation had a high standard of living in relation to post generations but had to fight for civil rights, gay, gender rights, suffer under the military draft for Vietnam, suffer from ignorance re smoking, drunk driving etc.
The Mils, have basic gender, race equality, not involved in the horror of the military draft and Vietnam and enjoy good health from not smoking or drunk driving but are at a lower standard of living than boomers.
America has gone over this over and over.
It is the duty of the newest generations to keep the good they have and work to get a higher standard of living for themselves like generations in the past.
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If you see the History of United States, you would find socialist concepts and policies way ahead of its time.
- Thomas Paine's Agrarian Justice (1797) was based on the concept that Mother Nature belonged to everyone equally.
- The Territorial Clause of the US Constitution, for all practical purposes, nationalized free land - the 'means of production' of the day. Today some 28% of the US land area is under Federal Control. [45% of CA and 85% of NV!!]
- The American School of economics talked about Govt involvement in infrastructure and education.
- The Land Grant Universities were commissioned to give higher education at nominal costs.
- The Real Radical Republicans brought in the Reconstruction, public school system and social institutions in the south.
- In the late 1800s, Henry George (of the Secret Ballot fame) is the father of universal basic income which is now in discussion.
- We built the federally funded Highway system which are called 'Freeways'.
So why the dislike towards Socialism? Is it the Cold war - not really. It was too abstract for the common man. Or is it the Vietnam war which we lost to 'socialism'. It is the war that touched the whole of America especially lower and middle class. It is the angst of the Vietnam war loss that is re-directed towards 'socialism'.
The millennials do not have this 'upbringing'. They can debate economic policies like what America used to do and adopt whatever works - without any ideology!
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I believe the key to the millennials struggles against the depredations of the return to laissez faire capitalism & scrapping of the welfare state, remains to be seen. Unlike the boomers, who abandoned the promise of the sixties with its rising egalitarianism & rejection of wage slavery in the advancement of a soul satisfying vocation & alignment with the natural world, the millennials are now at a tipping point. Will they succumb to a saddling with outrageous home mortgages filled with tons of costly financed consumer goods? Or will they fight to change the system before it's too late to turn back? The outcome is unclear.
The true joys of a technological society can only be enjoyed after reform is accomplished, not subjecting oneself to the flawed rottenness of inequitable unrestrained capitalism, with the guaranteed result of winners & losers.
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So millennials are suspicious of capitalism?
It's not the system that's wrong, it's the people who subvert it, infect it with greed and selfishness and inequity - the same thing that was wrong with communism. People.
People must be regulated in order to be fair. There must be laws that have consequences for those who will take advantage. There must be a level playing field.
People cannot be allowed to charge $100 for a bottle of water in a natural disaster. They will without government intervention. They cannot run scams on the elderly for home repairs, or commit medical malpractice. They will, if not restrained by government.
Markets are not free - business owners will lie and cheat and steal if they can - witness Enron, Arthur Anderson, Bear Stearns, Volkswagen, Worldcom, Lehman Brothers, AIG, and the rest of the Wall Street crooks and the banks too big to fail, and the mortgage brokers who sold worthless ones to unsuspecting investors.
The government is not the enemy - it should be used to protect us from the enemy - those who would distribute all the profits of a corporation to the CEO's, executives and Board members, and consciously fail to give wage increases or benefits to the employees who generated the profits - for decades , until we have the income inequality we see today.
Be suspicious of the people who take advantage of capitalism, and the government that aides and abets.
And support good government - enacting laws for the people.
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I don't know if I'd refer to millennials as 'whiners'. They are getting a raw deal. No question. But I might refer to them as big babies if they, as a group are seeking answers in one extreme or another. That would be a definition of immaturity. We have the ability to control Capitalism. We just aren't doing it. Maybe the millenials would be better served by organizing for the 2018 election. Change needs to happen, but the idea of scrapping everything is big part of what got us Trump. Seeking all your answers in a new 'ism' is magical thinking. And that's something mature members of a democracy should probably avoid.
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I'm wondering how America can still consider itself a "first world" country? Given the violence, lack of health-care for its citizenry, sub-standard public school system, crumbling public infrastructure and increasing disparity between the rich and poor - it strikes me as veering closer and closer to "third" world.
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To paraphrase Winston Churchill, capitalism is the worst economic system except for all others that have been tried. Capitalism in the United State today is being compromised by a move toward a kleptocracy. The Republican economic policies are not due to an unwavering belief in capitalism but are simply a power grab to accomplish their social agenda.
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In Florida we, the customers, are now paying for whatever FPL (Florida Power & Light) wants to spend on natural gas exploration in Oklahoma, or paying the fines for FPL aquatic pollution, or acquisition of out-of-state energy concerns by the company's holding company. You see American capitalism is whatever the money-power forces want it to be. At the beating heart of it is Wall Street pulling the strings, influencing the corrupt and pocketing the rest. This is not an economic system, it is a greedy, utterly immoral cabal.
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Hey, I'm in the very last cohort of the baby boomers. And, I hate capitalism. Especially the Capitalism practiced by the GOP Congress. It's reverse Robin Hood, Take from the poor and middle class, Give to the rich.
Culling the herd. And the herd will mostly walk into the slaughterhouse, voluntarily. What a Country.
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VOTE! And vote to stop the rampage of the GOP against decency and fairness. You have every right in the world to vote for a third party candidate, but as you've seen, there are consequences.
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America and its economy are separating into two different Americas and two different economies, each distinct and definitely unequal. For the wealthy few, there is the America and the economy of the "Obama recovery": growth in the economy at large, growth in the number of real, good paying, career track jobs, and tremendous growth in the stock market. For the nonwealthy, everyday, working Americans none of that "economic growth" ever seems to trickle down to them (in fact, it was never intended to); there may be more jobs, but all too often they are "McJobs" which pay the minimum wage, have no benefits, are strictly part time, and are absolutely soul killing dead ends; and since these Americans have a negative savings rate and little to nothing in 401(k)s or IRAs, the growth in the value of the stock market is meaningless to them, a bad joke that gets repeated daily on the nightly news as if to make their desperate plight all the more invisible.
The truth is we live in "Bifurcated America" where the the "Matthew Effect" is seen everyday in all its vicious, unequal savagery: "To those who have much, even more will be given, and from those who have little, all will be taken".
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Not sure which millennials you are talking about. I live in Austin, average age about 27 and they all moved here to get rich, this is what they tell me in so many words.
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Your headline is wrong. Millenials don't hate capitalism. What they hate is unregulated, greed-riven American capitalism.
Our country put the world on notice that it no longer believes in democracy, interprets "opportunity" to mean creative accounting and fraudulent book-keeping, that "innovation" is exemplified by financial instruments and corporate strategies that fail to produce anything of value and provide no improvement in quality of life except for the already very rich.
If there is any question about the US abandoning democracy, a glance at Congress removes all doubt. Constantly babbling about "the American people", they ignore the 90% who favor gun control, the 60% who disapprove of tax reform, the 52% who want Obamacare, the 70% deeply concerned with climate change.
The source of all this is the devotion of US capitalism to cash alone. In academic circles, studies of longevity or happiness are laughed out of economics departments. Ethics arise as a topic only when some Koch sponsored institute wishes to further its claim that education is a liberal trap.
Grassly and Hatch unburden themselves of Marie Antoinette-level wisdom about the poor as they cut social support and denigrate anything using the term "fair pay".
The world, the democratic capitalist world, moves on without us. Trump has assured the break will be dramatic. We won't recover in my lifetime It's the uber-patriots, champions of democracy, knights of capitalism who have done the damage.
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Good for the Millennials. It’s frustrating that socialism is always equated with communism, like the two can’t exist without one another. You can certainly have a democratic system with a combination of socialism and capitalism - which I think accurately describes Canada, the country I live in. This combination is evident to an even larger degree in European countries like Denmark and The Netherlands. Frankly, it works. People living under these systems are generally much happier and healthier. It’s baffling as to why a large percentage of people in the U.S. seem so vehemently opposed to even a modicum of economic fairness and social responsibility. Is it such a radical idea to implement some sensible checks and balances on capitalism, so that all the power and money doesn’t end up in the hands of a small group of greedy, unscrupulous people? When unchecked capitalism is allowed to grow like a cancer, it runs counter to every democratic ideal. It’s natural evolution is towards a fascist state because when the gulf between the haves and have-nots becomes too extreme it inevitably leads to an uprising or revolution. In turn, the rich will resort to using military force to maintain their economic oligarchy. It’s no coincidence that fascist politicians and the ruling class they represent always align themselves strongly with the military. They know that at some point the barrel of a gun will be their only convincing argument.
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I can't believe a NYT article just equated communism with socialism. I thought this was understood. I'm a millennial and a liberal, and I my impression is not that our generation is anti-capitalist but rather interested an a more equitable redistribution of the gains to our capitalist system. Establish a single-payer health care system (which is pro-business and especially pro-small business), get rid of the estate tax, increase the number of tax brackets to make the system more progressive, increase funding for the public school system starting at pre-k on up, etc. That's what we need, and it's in no way anti-capitalist.
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The Republicans and their wealthy backers are sowing the seeds of their own destruction.
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Now to get these millennials to hold their noses and vote for Democrats--maybe even run for office. Till now, they have mostly demonstrated their superiority by not voting or voting for "no chance to win" candidates.
This time, it is them who will be attacked if they should want to get an advanced degree and take a position that includes free tuition --and then have to pay much of it as income tax, oh, and the student loan needed to pay the income tax is also no longer deductible. Oh, and also increasingly lose medical care or go broke after an illness or accident. Oh, and have a much harder time than their parents buying a home or saving money or marrying.
Meanwhile, their Moms and Dads will be asset stripped because of the collapse of the real estate market, and as they age, should they need a nursing home, that the millennials will be forced to pay for it because of the cuts to medicaid--or maybe just let them die in their own waste.
Dear millennials: There are two problems with socialism: 1. people are not motivated to contribute if their contribution is not rewarded and 2. Every true Socialist state has ended in ruthless, corrupt dictatorship and economic disaster. The problem with democracies is disinterest by those who are in them shown by not participating and not paying attention.
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When the proletariat no longer see a way to advance in society, whether through hard work, luck and/or skill, then they will rise up and overturn the board.
Nobody likes to play Monopoly towards the end, cause it is gamed as 1 winner, and everyone else as the losers.
Economic imperialism inevitably collapse under its own weight of its own greed. Profound economic inequality is the fuel for social unrest.
It is no wonder why Millennials feel poorly toward capitalism. We are reaching the end of the game, and we all are approaching Boardwalk and Park Place.
https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitc...
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The irony is that, with the fall of the Soviet Union and the rise of Chinese party-enforced capitalism (and their installment of oligarchies and corrupt parties overseeing "the low-end peoples"), the same phenomena have now backed out into the western democracies. We are all living in systems trending toward oligarchic slave states now, and the number of "free people" lying in-between the oligarchs and the slaves dwindles with each passing act of Congress or innovation by the oligarchs (think Uber).
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Who can blame them? The original "Me" generation, baby boomers, threw them under the bus. Self involved & uninformed, baby boomers enabled gerrymandering and Citizens United with a yawn. They voted in glad-handing sycophants to congress as long as they were nice guys at the golf club. But there's the thing: it's not capitalism. It's our constitution.
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Ms. Goldberg, government selection of economic winners and losers, either by tax policy carve-outs or targeted entitlements, is socialism, not capitalism. I thought that moderating a debate generally entailed listening to both sides, but it appears you were otherwise occupied when the representatives from Reason were speaking.
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The GOP sheep, without any evidence whatsoever of decency or principle has handed the rich yet another gift they don't need.
But Capitalism isn't about need, is it? It is about greed and the insatiable longing for more. Always more. It will take many years of hindsight, but capitalism will be seen as the biggest disaster ever to befall mankind.
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I am a Gen-Xer who was raised in a socialist microeconomy (the US Army, believe it or not) and I am a socialist, as is my sister. We saw that you don't need a huge income when your basic needs are covered in exchange for your honest hard work at whatever you've been given to do.
My two teenagers are socialists--nothing else makes any sense to them. It turns out when you raise a generation with participation trophies, they learn to expect that everyone's contributions will be valued at at least some minimum level. Huh. How about that?
We have a revolution coming. The American people are sick of being exploited. Everybody has something different to contribute, and everyone deserves to be paid enough to live on in exchange for that contribution. Period.
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Millennials are right to regard capitalism with deep suspicion. Laissez-faire capitalism led to the horrors of child labor, unsafe workplaces, outright exploitation of all workers ("St. Peter, don't you call me cause I can't go/I owe my soul to the company store"), economic recessions and depressions, and pollution at such levels that US rivers caught fire and the air in most big cities was thick with smog.
Generations fought back with labor laws, OSHA, unions, the FDIC, and antipollution regulations; and the Republican Party has consistently worked since 1980 to remove every obstacle to bring back laissez faire capitalism. Take a look at Trump's "successes" over the past ten months. All of them are intended to undermine and eventually eliminate regulations and agencies designed to protect us from rampant greed.
Young people who are deciding how to vote must keep this in mind. No one claims the Democratic Party has all the answers or is full of saints. But if you read its 2016 platform (https://www.democrats.org/party-platform), you will see its commitment to protecting us from the worst effects of capitalism and advancing progressive causes like healthcare for all.
Third party candidates may match your views perfectly but in the current environment, where the GOP has gerrymandered states so thoroughly even well-funded Democrats can't hope to win, third-party campaigns are doomed. Don't trust anyone who tells you otherwise. There is too much at stake.
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I keep wondering who these old GOP legislators think are going to take care of them in their dotage. I have a feeling the millennials are going to put them in a warehouse and throw away the key after these old coots make having healthcare hard to get, having kids and daycare a luxury for high dollar earners, a house impossible to buy and retirement even harder.
I think young people don't care whether you call healthcare socialism or not when we already have a type of welfare for rich people rigging our democracy.
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An international survey last year found that only a very small percentage of young people value "freedom" over "prosperity". Ever been to China, Vietnam, or Cuba? There is order in the streets, a chicken in every pot (a.k.a. prosperity)... but literal thought police show up every evening wherever people might congregate, to make sure the telly is tuned to the big party patriotic parade and to disperse any gathering of more than a handful of people. The internet is censored. Dissidents go to jail. The pollution is awful. Drug addiction is rampant.
So while some Millenials might be suspicious of Capitalism, I pessimistically think it might be because they fear that they might be left out of the riches that corporation-"people" are raking in--not because they fear the totalitarian dictatorships that Communist governments always end up being.
Just my 2 cents. You may have it. A small price for being able to express my opinion.
No, it is worse. Turbo capitalism is restoring a new feudalism.
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Republicans that view the 99% as less valuable are the same sort of people who, in past generations, would have advocated for slavery, pushed against the rise of organized labor unions, exploited native peoples for the extraction of their natural resources, and fought against the the rights of non-landowners, women, and minorities to vote.
The notion that having money makes you superior or that you should receive preferential treatment by the government is the antithesis to American ideals. These people are un-American and utterly devoid of the moral authority to lead wisely.
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I'm not a millennial. The evidence is in that people living in socialist countries like Sweden are healthier (physically and mentally) and happier than Americans. They don't have to sweat the bills of going to a doctor or worry about missing work due to a sick child. Sounds better and better every day...
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When you have the vast majority of a country’s wealth in the hands of less than 1%, the social fabric cannot hold. Millennials are feeling this. They have inherited the consequences of a neoliberal capitalism that has been growing since the 1970s. What today’s capitalism lacks is any recognition of the social contract. This contract acknowledges that for a society to function, everyone must get a piece of the collective pie – some will get more, but not to the extent that others get none. To achieve this capitalism must be regulated. Capitalism is not a naturally occurring phenomenon, but a human construct, one without a conscience. The idea of a “free market” is fiction. The market is constantly manipulated. We rescue banks and prop up a corporate welfare state.
In the simplest terms modern “socialism” can be defined as the social contract. It advocates a level playing field for all citizens, as opposed to the Darwinian capitalist vision of every man, woman, and child for themselves. The term “communism” is an unfortunate one because the original vison of communism never happened. It was hijacked by complex historical forces and tyrants, and desecrated. Today, except for those who know the difference, the term retains all of those negative associations. Modern communist organizations should abandon the label because its meaning is misunderstood and counterproductive.
Capitalism doesn’t have to be destroyed; it just needs to be reimagined into a more humane form.
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Capitalism is fine up to the point where it threatens democracy and the rule of law. Concentration of wealth is dangerous. It sets up a de facto ruling class that can, with weak inheritance laws, morph into a hereditary aristocracy. Think of the names Rockefeller, Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Morgan and Mellon...we have been there before. The wealth of the few and the misery of the many led to a bloody first half of the twentieth century. Ideologies from communism on the left to national socialism on the right were born out of the anger of many and the indifference of the few. We need to get back to the Capitalism that was buffered by the realization that the trash man is just as necessary to the success of society as the hedge fund manager.
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Millennials don't necessarily hate Capitalism; they dislike Baby Boomers who fail to consider how their actions impact the future, even if said future means five years from now.
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Capitalism is a great system if you were lucky enough to be born into the right family. If they had money, then your life is easy and your future is guaranteed to be successful.
If you were not born into the right family, then life will be difficult. You can achieve a certain level of success but you will never reach the level of those who were born into wealth.
To make things even worse, the wealthy have taken control of our government to declare war on the less affluent. Not content with what the have, they want more. They also want recognition that they are God's chosen. After all, if God didn't love them more, why did he give them do much.
We are in a very dangerous time. The fact that young people are questioning capitalism is a good start. However, be quick or you will find that questioning the status quo has become a crime against society.
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Millennial cynicism toward capitalism is a consequence of the policies of both parties acting on the self serving belief that Wall Street generates jobs rather than smart entrepreneurs, engineers, designers, sales people and others who recognize new problems and better ways to solve old ones. Money from Wall Street and elsewhere is indeed needed to fund those people to get started and to keep moving parts greased. But actually providing the money needed for innovation and building new things is the tiniest fraction of what Wall Street actually does. Mostly, the people who work in finance move oceans of money around and siphon out bits from the oceans to line their own pockets and the pockets of the politicians who oversee and influence the oversight of their financial activities.
Fealty to Wall Street by all of our politicians is why Millennials look askance at Capitalism. But that's not fair. It's not Capitalism's fault that politicians are money grubbers and have allowed themselves to believe Wall Street's self serving propaganda.
Capitalism has stood the test of time and has been proven to be the best way to help the most people. It allocates resources more efficiently than any other system. It's frankly magical.
However...
Capitalism needs guide rails and safety nets to protect people from liars, thieves and misfortunes. That's where politicians come in. To save Capitalism we need better politicians.
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The young must vote their interest, or just plain vote. Too many did not in the last election.
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Why are we still talking about capitalism? I thought it went dead in 2008-2009 financial crisis. When government used tax dollars to save private banks without taking over the companies, capitalism went dead. If our capitalism is truly capitalism and heartless, those Wall Street banks should be long gone and new banks emerged. And the reason why millennials don't like capitalism is because our capitalism is fake.
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Capitalism is awesome....for about a few hundred people and their heirs.
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Great call to arms. Too bad if they took to the street the police would defend the rich takers. So it goes. Good piece.
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As reported in a New Yorker article on Karl Rove some years ago, the Republican's ultimate goal is to repeal the New Deal and return to extreme 1890's laissez-faire capitalism in which most ordinary Americans would be virtual slaves.
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The old joke is that a student at Moscow University in the era of the former Soviet Union was asked to state the difference between capitalism and communism. His response: "Under capitalism, man oppresses man. Under communism, the opposite occurs."
We need a combination of capitalism and socialism.
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A message for Millennials: For those of you who are 18 to 34 considered a member of the millennial generation (as well as other generations) please consider this as an alternative as you plan your lives.
French President Macron has recently invited Americans to emigrate to France after having met with Trump on more than one occasion.
After pleading with Trump to reconsider his non participatory position on climate change and finding that trump was adamant on this issue, Macron decided to address all Americans directly, encouraging them to start a new life in France.
France has a government that strikes a balance between capitalism and socialism with both positions working hard to provide the best plans for the country's economy.
This article in the NYT clearly argues that your generation is dissatisfied with the greedy form of capitalism espoused by Trump and his minions.
As an alternative to living out your life in an atmosphere you disagree with, please accept the heartfelt welcome from President Macron!
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As a millennial I get frustrated when we discuss things in black and white. I don't want everything to be privatized nor do I want everything to be socialized. The whole reason we pay taxes is to make sure the government takes care of us, the citizens not businesses. That is their job, not help the wealthy get wealthier and hope they generously feed us their scraps. I just want healthcare, higher education, the internet to be government run because these are basic human rights. Human rights should be socialized and luxuries should be privatized, it's not that hard. Health and education is NOT a luxury. If we continue on this path of crazy college expenses and healthcare costs the economy will crash and the headlines will read "Millennials crash economy because they won't spend enough money" or "Millennials crash the economy because they want everything handed to them"
Germany has built it's wealth on taxes, and we have yet to see trickle down economics create the economic boom the GOP has been trying to sell us for decades. In the age of the internet we're not stupid. We can see what other countries are doing and they are fairing much better than us and we feel capitalism has failed us.
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The Republicans are doubling down on every lie they ever told. They are acting as if wages have been going up for thirty years instead of down, as if most americans are rich instead of getting by. They are thieves at this point. The Times used the word "Heist" in a headline about the tax plan this week — finally a bit of truth. That they are so powerful and have risen so high while being so completely dishonest and uncaring is testimony to the failure of american journalism to shed light on the character of those seeking office. Sadly the failure involves coverage of the Democrats as well, many of them have preached the exact same lies over the years, but they were never criticized. Hopefully the extreme decadent greed of our upper class and the government they bought for themselves will at last be honestly evaluated. This will leave us with lives none the less ruined, but at least the dignity of truth. Truth is the only weapon we have left against them.
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This is ridiculous. I’m a ‘millennial’ who’s lived and worked in European countries and so am keenly aware of the dysfunction caused by socialism. I love capitalism. Capitalism is the only system by which the individual’s value can be realized. All other systems put the collective first and therefore reduce the individual’s capacity and incentive to realize his or her skills/ideas/unique value offering.
It is a way to starve the social issues that Conservatives hate so much.
We used to laugh at the fact that Irish lads had to live at home into their late 20's and 30's because they could not earn enough to support a wife and children. Not so funny now.
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As a Gen-Xer, I will probably be OK if the folks pre baby boomers called us and the millenials names; what I probably wont be OK with is if the baby boomers called us names. The baby boomers will go down in history books as the most self-obsessed, selfish, individualistic set that set the country on the road to permanent ruin.
They got theirs. You are on your own, however.
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Sheer greed. What person needs $60 million a year. Many college grads will not be able to buy a home. Is college worth the trouble in a workplace where attending classes will slow you down. In the time it takes to walk to class you can google a source. Instead parents stuck in their past will spend $275,000 to send Suzie to Swarthmore. They are interested in their own vanity. A house might be a better investment and a laptop. Let them eat foie gras old boy. Times have changed for sure.
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The Republican oath - Of the One Percent, For the One Percent, by The GOP.
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Yes, young people are being robbed. Public services will decline as a result of the tax bill, especially in the blue states. You will not be able to write off the interest on your education loans. And you are already underpaid and under benefited in the work place. The gig economy does not give young people paid benefits like older people generally had and health insurance costs are going to rise because of the tax bill. God knows, social security may be gone eventually. The bill raises the deficit so much the republicans will use it as an excuse to gut social security and medicare. A lot of us older people are sick with worry for you young ones and are ready to join a revolution against what is happening now. This is not the United States we grew up in and we need to put the brakes on this economic and social devastation before the spiral gets worse.
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It is obvious the author feels entitled to others' money. Why else the self-righteous claim that money already taxed should be taxed again by the same profligate government. Ahh, maybe they'll finally fix the NY subways ? Or maybe the pathologically entitled should work more and complain less.
Should capital gains that have never been taxed be passed on to heirs tax-free? How is that fair?
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There is nothing inherently good or bad about capitalism, or socialism for that matter. We have neither in this country. We have an oligarchy. The very wealthy own and control our federal government and many of our state governments. The ongoing efforts to separate the rich from the poor is nothing more than a concerted effort to return us to the good old days: no minimum wage, no child labor laws, no OSHA, no EPA, no FDA, etc. Unfettered exploitation of the many by the very few. "Captains of Industry" and serfs.
The morally bankrupt, the sociopath and the robber baron have migrated mostly into the Republican Party and completely jettisoned that party's historical platform. Wealth and the illusion of power at any cost is all that matters. Trump, McConnell, Ryan and their lemming horde have broken every campaign promise and violated most of the ethical and legal principles that once informed our government.
If the opposition (and that is definitely not the Democratic Party as it is currently hiding under a rock) is unable to sufficiently move to safeguard our nation against these traitors, I fear we are heading toward a very ugly time. As the bulk of Trump's red-hat supporters become increasing aware of how badly they were played and how thoroughly they have been betrayed, Trump et.al., may come to regret their warm embrace of unrestricted access to all guns for all (white) people.
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I applaud these millennials. They are on to something. The rapacious wealthy and their sycophants will not stop until they have bankrupted the rest of us for simple greed. It turns out that the so-called makers are the real takers.
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The definition of a present-day republican is someone who cannot live with the thought that there might be someone, somewhere gaming a system they haven't thought to game themselves.
If a doctor is caught cheating Medicare, well, the whole program should go. Children of the poor getting free lunches in school? Hey, the parents should be working harder and we know how to make them; take away the lunches.
This immoral tax bill is going to begin a great unraveling and it's smug authors and corporate supporters have no idea.
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Capitalism
The viability of Planet Earth to sustain human civilization in its present form is now being questioned. We are heading toward a cliff. The fall will not just be painful; it could spell the end of Homo sapiens. For a start, we urgently need to examine the rational supporting our Capital Market system. Certain elements of that system, laboriously pieced together over the centuries beginning with the bronze/iron agricultural age and then energized during the Industrial Revolution are now working against us.
www.InquiryAbrham.com
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"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." Churchill
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There may be a silver lining to the Trump nightmare after all. We are seeing the end game of the Republican Party that began with the election of Ronald Reagan play out in the form of a complex tax reform bill that benefits mostly US corporations and the rich, endorsement of known sexual predators "because we need the votes in the Senate", and piling on of hard-right conservative judges so the nightmare can continue far into the future. Millennials are our only hope to right this sinking ship. Government should be protecting US citizens from the excess of the powerful. Socialism is NOT communism no matter how many times Republicans tell us so. The Republican Party has given over to the Dark side and has to be defeated. Get out and vote!
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I won't reveal my generation, Michelle. You wouldn't remember it, anyway. However, I will say this:
I'm hostile to Stalinism (which begat political correctness) and Leninism (spoiled for me by Lenin's dictum that truth-telling is a bourgeois conceit). Hostility to the Marxism of that establishment known as Marxism-Leninism is as pointless as hostility to the Marley of Scrooge & Marley. It's been dead as a doornail for years, though busts of Karl Marx continue to brighten up the offices of Leninists. Maoism is beyond the scope of this comment.
And yet -- I long for something which I'd have called socialism if the name hadn't already been taken. Basic security for everyone. No "right" to corner vast hoards of wealth while others can't even work their way out of poverty. Single-payer health insurance. Progressive taxes that really do go to redistribution of wealth (they mostly don't, in the US). I say this as one who would be a net contributor, though not a big one.
The thing about my parallel-universe socialism is that it would be driven by progressive gratitude. The more secure one became, the more one would thank one's lucky stars and want others to know the same sense of well-being. Propagating security would bring the satisfaction of cultivating a field.
A Utopian vision, certainly, but without the breaking of eggs and whatnot. I wonder if the last word really must be like the punch line of the old joke: "But you can't get there from here."
2
The tax bill is not capitalism. It's all out looting.
2
It's not Socialism that the millennials and many older people want it's Socialist Democracy. You know what many of the richest and happiest countries in Europe have?
And yes the rich are very different then the rest of the population. They feel they are entitled to our tax dollars because... well, just because. Many of the wealthy got their wealth from cheating others, or inheriting wealth that was acquired by cheating others. Look at Mnuchen the foreclosure king. He ruined many peoples lives. Look at Trump, and how he cheated and chiseled workers of their pay. kTrump University? Anyone?
4
I do fee a gripping change is around the corner
The Citizens United decision will be noted as the beginning of the end of democracy. The ability of the rich to buy the votes and policies of craven members of Congress will, eventually, destroy our representative democracy. The millennials have the misfortune of being the ones standing when the music stops and all the chairs are full.
1
Americans - especially the older generation - have got to lose this false dichotomy between Capitalism and Socialism. America has elements of both; Socialism helps keep the worst instincts of capitalism in check, and vice versa. ANY ideology taken to an extreme will produce inequality and collapse.
I love my great aunt, but I stymy a chuckle every time she rails against "liberal handouts" as she cashes her social security check and asks me to drive her to her doctor appointment... paid by medicaid.
2
This article does not point out that every GOP senator and the majority of the representative are all millionaires or multi millionaires. This tax cuts are a to benefit themselves and their families directly.
I don't know how the polling was done, but older US citizens believed that socialism was communism, this was feed to us as young people. During the late 60ties and early 70ties young people rejected all of this propaganda. If you look at the turmoil during the 60ties and 70ties it was the baby boomers telling the government they did not believe the propaganda and wanted the government stop lying. Sound familiar? I believe that the United States will only survive as a leader when they are socialist country.
2
Senator Grassley's comment "as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies." Millennials need to come out in droves to vote in 2018-20! No excuses.
1
What we are witnessing is much easier to explain. In a generation, we have seen the unionization/destruction of our K-12 system and produced thousands of very poorly educated young people. This is the generation that doesn't read newspapers or watch TV to be informed about issues. This is the generation that has been hoodwinked into thinking that going to any old college to major in any old subject would magically reward them. Instead, they have become barristas -- and disgruntled, bitter and twisted Democrats, part of the "who is going to look after me" cohort that supports the Democrats.
Of course they are down on capitalism. They are ignorant of both it and the alternatives and aren't successful. Someone is to blame. Someone else, I mean.
1
Democracy and capitalism possess no obvious linkage or common lineage. Where capital rules, democracy dies. Why do you think the cold war is being resurrected? Try Democratic socialism as an antidote.
1
The debate was soporific. The participants -- and the emotionally socialist audience -- should read Gaus's "Tyranny of the Ideal." Vivek Chibber, who made sundry factual and conceptual errors, stated that it's apodictic that rebellions of the masses secured their rights. This is false (as is the notion that capitalism is exploitative). I quote Jonathan Israel re Enlightenment reform: "In the legal and moral sphere, it was neither public opinion, nor economic pressure, nor governments, and especially not ... magistrates or lawyers that acted as agents of change. ... [It] was philosophy itself, helped by the sheer accumulation of social difficulties and pressures (as distinct from public attitudes), that spread awareness of deficiencies and urged root and branch reform. This growing scope for action philosophy gained not owing to widespread support, for by and large this was scant, but rather because the legal systems of the age were so disfigured by outmoded usages and discredited intellectually that many government officials felt obliged to intervene if only on grounds of efficiency.
"ALL sweeping legal and reform programs of the Enlightenment era stemmed from proposals drawn up by high-level officials, often acting in relative isolation and adopting solutions urged by 'philosophy' in response to long-standing social problems." The masses freeing themselves by themselves rarely occurs, though it does. As for what millennials feel about capitalism, I've nearly stopped caring.
I have said from the moment that Trump got selected by Russia, that this election may be ushering in the end of global White domination. I believe we are seeing the implosion before our eyes. What will replace it? Hopefully, a more compassionate, sane and healthier ideology.
1
Why do you conflate communism and socialism? Communism is only the most extreme totalitarian version and I haven’t heard any call for that in the Bernie crowd.Democratic capitalism historically has a limited lifespan before it collapses into oligarchy and corruption. That seems to be where we are if we can’t get a federal government elected who will bring it under control.
1
Louise Linton and Chuck Grassley. Two utterly detestable individuals, short-sighted and ignorant of historical precedent. Their myopic vision of the 'place' of low income people in American society could well sow the seeds for anti-capitalist political parties or even revolution if the spirit of compromise which Trump has destroyed is not brought back to the nation's political dialogue.
Why should anyone really be surprised? One does not have to be a Trump sympathizer to deplore one of the gravest side-effects of NAFTA, namely the overnight disappearance of millions of decent blue collar jobs from the American labour force. Failure to address the issues of retraining and pensioning off the laid-off workers was a major bipartisan blunder which helped to propel the oligarch Trump to the highest office of the land.
2
This tax bill is not capitalism. It is government-sponsored welfare for the rich and an assault on the vulnerable, poor and nearly poor.
1
Hatch and Grassley's comments reveal that they revile everyone on this planet but their own narrow, white, rich, christianize social strata. The veil on the "moral majority's" morality was ripped off long ago -- there is nothing there, a great hollow void where heart, humility, and compassion should be. That Grassley lumps "women" in as a commodity for weak men to consume is especially vile in this present moment.
As the mother of two millennial who are idealistic and want to live good lives (as opposed to "the good life") I know why they feel duped and betrayed by our generation. Because they have been.
2
Mt brother in law, who was given a very profitable business by his father is doing well running it. He makes a few hundred thousand dollars a year and believes in the Grassley, Mnuchin, and Hatch world view. Numerous times he has railed against the "takers" and the poor while telling me how smart his brother is since he he funnels his profits off to shell companies in Puerto Rico. He reminds me it's all very legal and doesn't care that his brother doesn't pay taxes on that income. From his gated golf course country club home he wonders how poor people can live like they do. He is convinced it's simply laziness. "Those" people don't lift a finger to do much of anything and if they do and make minimum wage, or something close to it, it's their fault they didn't work harder or smarter. My brother in law and sister believe in a black and white world where those who succeed are righteous and good and those who don't are flawed by their own laziness or stupidity. Having or getting large sums of money is all that matters...no matter how somebody does it. It's no wonder millennials see this kind of thinking and world view and recoil from it. I can't understand why more capitalists don't feel the same revulsion or shame in holding the views they do. Then again it's probably my faulty logic, bleeding heart, or poor life choices that are the cause of it all.
Senator Orrin Hatch said, “I have a rough time wanting to spend billions and billions and trillions of dollars to help people who won’t help themselves — won’t lift a finger — and expect the federal government to do everything.” All of the GOP Senators currently voting AGAINST the interests of US citizens have Universal Health Care for themselves and their families, taxpayer money to send their children to the best schools, chauffeurs and limos as well as private planes they no longer will be taxed for.. They take kickbacks and skim money off the top for any projects related to their states... WHO, exactly are the real freeloaders?
2
Ms Goldberg, we do not have capitalism in this country. We have a "mixed economy" - capitalist freedom + socialist controls. Socialists like yourself claim that capitalism is responsible for the ills in this country; people who understand what capitalism is know that it's the socialists and their freedom-destroying beliefs that are responsible for the ills in this country.
Socialism requires the use of force to rip away the earnings of those who produce and shower them on those who don't. Capitalism does not use force, and under true laissez-faire Capitalism winners win because they deliver products and services better than their competitors.
Read Hayek and Hazlitt if you want to know more.
1
Socialism is the idea that we are family, and everyone in our family deserves a roof, a meal, a doctor, dentist, and a public education.
Capitalism is the idea that we are animals on the plains of Africa, some predator, some prey, and life is without mercy, without caring. It is the best of times for a predator tribe when they kill a lot of prey and a few of their enemy.
It is the best of times for socialism to see happy well fed kids, and all pitching in to raise a barn, or a truly public University.
Don't equate socialism with communism... they are two different things. Stalin created a prison of entire nations because those nations killed tens of millions of his people. His communism was the opposite of socialism, it was just another form of oligarchic capitalism.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
I am 48 so I lived during the cold war. More importantly I lived during a period when most Republicans in Congress were responsible honest people. So my advice to millenials is to not confuse our current oligarchy with capitalism. This is far from capitilasm. This is a raid on the treasury, self-dealing, corruption and stupidity on a massive scale.
Still, I am encouraged to that there is seemingly widespread awareness among the very people who have lost the most that they have been robbed and cheated. This may very way the emergence of a grass roots backlash.
We know how the current version of the Republican Party ends and it will not be prettyWe just don't know when.
"I am my Brother's Keeper"
Well not if you're Orrin Hatch and the rest of the republicans.
This position will soon haunt them as the rest of the world surpasses America in education, health and infrastructure.
"But, we'll have Nukes and we can still destroy them."
The problem this article does not make clear is that communism and socialism are not the same. That's why when socialism is mentioned, Americans panic in their ignorance.
1
Take 90 minutes this week and watch Robert Rubin’s latest documentary, “Saving Capitalism.” The problem with the accrual of wealth and power in a capitalist system is that it creates a vicious circle. Some’s good, more’s better, and too much is just about enough. The power of wealth has usurped the powers that the Constitution reserved for “We the people.” European Social-capitalism sets the upper limits of the vicious circle. American Capitalism sets no bounds on it. Corporations and the mega-wealthy work to divide “We the people” into warring tribes who will fight each other rather than fight them to get back the power they have stolen. The remedy is clear. Stop responding to their culture war dog whistles, unite as loyal Americans, and restore the proper balance. That’s the work of living in a democracy. Dr. William Barber II is organizing the new Poor People’s Campaign for exactly this purpose. Take a look at breachrepairers.org and poorpeoplescampaign.org, and read yesterday’s article in the NYTimes. We can do this!
Older Americans hear the word "socialism" and most think of East Germany. Younger Americans hear the same word and most think of Denmark. Two countries very near one another, but worlds apart.
1
I tell every young person under the age of 25, willing to listen, to get out of this country as soon as they can. Go start and have your life elsewhere.
This country is in shambles and is going to get much worse in the near future.
1
It is a sad thing that so many of us are ignorant of our history. The description in this editorial fits the Gilded Age almost to a tee. And what delivered working people from their plight back then was largely the labor union. Socialism was a failed solution, Unionization, by contrast, helped working people keep the capitalists honest. Why not debate what worked the first time? Sadly, you have to know history to learn from it.
Let me disclose from the get-go that I am a Capitalist. I also believe in the Republic. Unfortunately there is truth in this write-up if you believe that the Republican vision of America is a sole representation of what it is to be a Capitalist. I get that Millennial's would express distaste for it if that's what they think when they review all that the Republican's are attempting to do. But I would advise them that this is an error in judgement.
The Republican Party isn't expressing Capitalistic notions, although they are channeling its power. They are expressing elitist, aristocratic, notions. These notions are as old as man and are decidedly anti-capitalistic. Consider them in a different light. Consider them from the viewpoint of Frank Capra's old film, "A Wonderful Life."
The protagonist, George Bailey, was a banker and a Capitalist. So, too, was his nemesis, Henry F. Potter. The film pirouettes between the dynamics of these two individuals, the Humanist verses the money grubber. Both are expressions of Capitalism; it's poles (if you will). If you consider the Republican Party as Potter and are repulsed by that vision in favor of the one represented by Bailey then the answer to your dilemma pf our Republic, and its nature, is clear.
Get involved. Stand up and oppose the Potters less America become Pottersville. Can you do this? If you listen to the angels of your better nature then I vote yes, yes you can.
John~
American Net'Zen
1
Capitalism!
The economic system that thrives with segregation, slavery, child labor, genocide, monopolies, massive wealth inequality, poor health care, and on and on, clearly tends towards the exploitation of people without, you know, capital.
So why would those without capital support it?
Oh, right, because there were a bunch of totalitarian societies that were also really, really bad and called themselves communist. Ergo, the only alternative is capitalism.
Well, that solves it.
Sure most of Europe has shown that socialism works, but hey, communism was evil, so Europe doesn't count!
I remember a baby boomer Clinton supporter earnestly telling me that Sanders was like Brezhnev.
I almost fell down laughing.
First, no, not even close.
And second, did he really think that argument would fly with anyone under 50?
We don't have healthcare, we don't have pensions, we don't have vacations, our educations cost ten times as much as theirs did, we don't have job security, so just maybe we are willing to trade a little bit of this "freedom" we supposedly have for the living nightmare of something more like, I don't know, Sweden.
Seriously, communism scares you?
Try some heartless modern American capitalism.
That should scare the bejeezus out of you.
1
1. Government doesn't exist to protect the powerful. The powerful can protect themselves. That's why we call them powerful. Government exists for the people. (See: Address, Gettysburg.)
2. Markets do not equal justice. Justice is not a "deal". Justice protects human rights, which are inalienable. (See: Independence, Declaration of.)
3. Envy is a sin. So is greed.
4. No two-bit clown-car collection of thieves, no matter how expensive their suits, or how pompous their certainty, will ever change any of that.
5. The people, and justice, and righteousness will prevail.
Michelle, you were there so you should have remembered the title and angle of the debate, which was not "about whether we should scrap capitalism". It actually asked the question "Is capitalism the best way to improve standards of living, ensure political and economic freedom, and provide opportunity? Could socialism do better?" It was a lively debate (which you can hear on the link below) and it all but reconfirmed my feelings that capitalism works best with some socialistic constraints. http://reason.com/blog/2017/11/15/jacobin-debates-capitalism-podcast
1
Greed and lies win. I guess I'll have to wait for a revolution to see if anything changes, but I am not counting on it.
My Stanford MBA Class at its 30th reunion recently said the biggest threat to our country was inequality, driven by unbridled capitalism. All of us have done well in life, but we easily see where this is going, and for those of us who care about our communities, our families and a rising tide for all, we see that capitalism in its current form is very broken, both economically and politically. The mantra that capitalism solves all problems is a fraud at this point..... You can call it democratic socialism or anything you like, but things need to change dramatically....
1
In studies of what countries have the happiest, healthiest citizens, the democratic socialist countries with high taxes and low income inequality come out on top.
With excellent sex education, they have low abortion rates and their children are valued, even after they are born!!! (Imagine that, conservative "Christians"!) Generous paid leave for both parents supports family bonding. Government subsidized child care is superb, with well-educated, WELL-PAID child care workers. School systems are great, and higher education is mostly free. Lots of personal freedom to develop desired skills and self-actualize to contribute to society. People in "low skill" service jobs are also valued and paid well, so they don't have to suffer the soul-destroying effects of poverty. They can afford decent housing (no slums there) and regular vacations. Meticulously maintained infrastructure. Excellent health care. Flourishing arts.
German CEO, when asked if he resented his high taxes: "No. I don't want to be a rich man in a poor country."
I can't find the words to express my disgust and outrage with the Republicans' morally obscene agenda to siphon even more of the wealth of our nation to the sociopathically greedy millionaires/billionaires at the top--while turning the rest of our country into a dystopian wasteland.
I am wondering if millinneals are not conflating economics and politics. I think they might also consider how to democratize our capitalism and use socialism where it fits. But first we must do a much better job of ensuring the people understand democracy, millinneals have never really received that learning because wealthy don't think they are worth it and besides an ignorant rabble is much easier to control.
What else does the millennial generation know but capitalism? Imagine how much more whining they would do if their taxes suddenly climbed to the level that the average French citizen pays for their socialist paradise on earth? How many wealthy French people do I know who fled decades back to avoid paying into an entitlement state that they had collaborated with German soldiers to abolish, and once the Americans won WWII had to see restored in some form? Capitalism for better or worse is here to stay in the United States and even the suggestion of its replacement is beyond absurd...
1
>
First, if one understands the tenets of historical materialism as delineated by Marx, communism really would not be scheduled on scene until socialism worked out in the dialectical process all of its many contradictions. This ain't happening anytime soon, Bernie supporters.
The cliff notes for Historical materialism read something like this: Hunter/gather, roman slavery, feudalism, capitalism, socialism, communism....and eventually the withering away of the State; something the GOP is currently working at, go figure
As Hegel believed these contradictions aren't when right & wrong collide, but when two rights collide; one is made to heel e.g., the feudal aristocracy was brought to heel by the bourgeoisie, with the grand finale being the Jacobins. They say Kant was a secret Jacobin. "If some feudalist ideologues denounced early capitalists enterprise", says Terry Eagleton, "it was because they regarded it as unnatural - meaning of course untrue to feudal definitions of human nature. Later on, capitalism would return the compliment to socialism".
Now whether historical materialism is the gear box to history remains to be seen. I doubt it, Man being Man, but there is a boat load of empirical evidence that gives it weight i.e., history.
“Men make their own history, but they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under circumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly encountered, given and transmitted from the past.”
Marx
1
Let's add the capitalist market failure climate change represents to the list.
1
why would this audience pay for the tickets? did you get paid to moderate? isn't that pro-capitalism behavior?
This began as an interesting story.
I would argue that we live in an economy of Baby Boomer Capitalism. It is based on the assumption that “Things were so easy when I was growing up; I mean, yes, the US was experiencing an anomalous period of insane growth that will never be seen again and jobs were available for just about any white person with a head, but my hard work is the reason I am where I am today! How dare you not succeed when the economic conditions are completely different!” It is based on the delusions of Baby Boomers and all of their absurd, trickle-down and punish everyone else ideas.
1
Capitalism produces winners and losers ... that is the nature of risk and the nature of innovation. Because helicopter parents, snowflake peers, and censorious universities have shielded our little Millennials and handed out "participation awards," the reality of economic life seems heartless, cold, and cruel. Yes, they can live in their socialist paradise until they discover that you need capitalism to have $8 cups of brand name coffee at your favorite cafe and socialism tends to run out of everything so that you can learn to drink ersatz coffee.
1
Let the elections in the coming years tell the ruling class that they do not own us.
Where do you get the idea that millennials hate capitalism? They shop relentlessly, carry around thousand dollar phones, spend most of their free time feeding monster corporations like Faceboook and Instagram all their data and privacy, and feel deprived when they don't get a six figure job right out of college.
Except for the boomers, with whom nobody could ever compete for pure greed, narcissism and love of corporate power, the millennials are the the most capitalistic generation ever.
The extremely wealthy know at some level that the amount of money they have cannot be justified by their works. So to justify their privilege they have to denigrate the rest of us. Getting rich wasn't all that hard for them (most were well on their way by birth). So if others aren't rich too, it must be because they're lazy bums. The 47 percent who won't take care of themselves.
Their core self-justification is nothing new - Social Darwinism sanctified by Calvinist narcissism. The amount of money you have is a measure of your value as a human being. The rich are the chosen of God. The God increasingly is the Market. The extreme modern manifestations are Libertarianism, which I think of as Social Darwinsim plus drugs. Or the gospel of wealth, where Christianity is an investment in personal wealth.
But as we all know but may be loathe to admit, getting money is not necessarily the same as earning money. Having wealth is not the same thing as creating wealth.
Capitalism is amoral - sometime the effects are good, sometime bad. Ideological attempts to deify the market as inherently just constitute an abdication of all human ethics and morality - unless you accept greed and selfishness as an ethics.
The oligrachy's increasingly obscene attempts to justify their wealth and power is nothing new. They are superior human beings - the rest of us are bums.
1
What matters so much more than preferred isms are how core values are expressed. And today we see that the American political rights leaders are morally bankrupt. While their followers are willfully ignorant and so invested in culture warring that can't see straight to save their lives.
Dear Ms. Goldberg,
Thank you for your wonderful articles since you arrived in NYT. My Millennial son hates Ayn Rand and proudly displays "Doctors Without Border" T-shirt. Although I am not sold for the Socialism on the economic front, I am much more concerned about a decline in the moral fabric of our society. I am sure that most of us are reasonably minded people but those running the economy and culture in recent days are such "bottom line" minded simpletons (Oh well, the Democrats are worse is one example) that our societal leaders have decided that winning is everything and sacrifice the principle in "little people" like us. Well, no wonder "little people" like us and my son are resenting.
78
Socialism, in which the state owns the means of production, is probably not desirable. Nor is laissez-faire capitalism.
But a social democracy, in which most aspects of capitalism coexist with a social emphasis on human health and happiness seems to work well in Scandinavia and Europe.
7
Stop conflating socialism with communism. There is a vast difference. While you are at it, stop trying to further divide us by age. Millennials would consider me a fossil. I would trade this corporate capitalism for socialism in less than a heartbeat.
278
You should also add that there are variations on socialism, most notably the prevalent top-down variety and the only viable form, bottom-up.
3
Concernicus:
Stop conflating capitalism with crony socialism or crony capitalism.
Tax breaks for mortgage interest on mansions, tax breaks for the health plans of the wealthy, subsidies for exporters, zoning laws that make housing unaffordable for the poor in California, and much more, are anathema to capitalism.
4
Exactly so! Socialism is not communism. Conflating the two is an easy (and lazy) way to demonize anything less than sympathetic to enlarging the corporate/plutocratic welfare state at the expense of everyone else.
3
I'm genuinely disappointed if any of my age group genuinely think they would prefer communism, or even just soft socialism. And these are people who think they are smart! They are just ignorant. Brtual communist regimes should speak for themselves, but I don't think that's what's up for debate. One thing I think that our young people don't appreciate is that life in the US and capitalist countries in general is so much more vibrant and energetic than in socialist countries - even very nice ones like Sweden and Norway. For better and for worse, we have a lot going on. Life is so bland in Norway - you can't really fail but you can't really achieve outsized success, the food is terrible, and life is just quiet and predictable.
I completely understand that Millennials have had a rough time (I'm one of them!) and that some of these new tax proposals won't be of much help. We came of age in a time when the labor market was at its worst point since our grandparents were kids; our long term earnings will be stunted due to relatively low output earlier in our careers... Boo hoo! Living under a socialist economy won't help you fix that. Young people are supposed to be energetic, creative, etc. Don't give up now!
32
Norwegian food is actually quite wonderful. The rest of your post is equally fallacious.
12
Outsized success is for those who haven't figured out that there's more to life than money. The rest of us just want to live a good life with less stress, more time for family, and enough money to go do something fun every once in a while. Sign this millennial up for that 'bland' life, please.
9
I am sitting on a Norwegian Airlines flight. A very successful capitalist enterprise that manages to offer good and indeed better service than most US airlines at a fraction of their prices. Somehow these socialist countries manage to be vibrant and competitive.
11
Most people don't understand that many of America's social programs constitute 'socialism'. Our Constitution permits the type of socialism typical in most European countries (including those governed by conservatives), which does not exclude capitalism. It is important to remember that it is our responsibility to defend a philosophy of government that protects the 'general welfare' of the Constitution. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Civil Right Act, the ACA did not come without a battle. Millennials must be ready to fight for their future.
2
The natural result of capitalism are monopolies by the most powerful corporations and oligarchs. The other natural result will be revolution against those entities and those who allowed it to happen. Think of the French Revolution. It didn't happen during Teddy Roosevelt's terms in office because he and Republicans at that time worked to have a Fair Deal for all; no preferential treatment to owners of business, workers, government, etc. But today's Republicans are totally in support of the corporations and oligarchs. A revolution is forthcoming unless the arc is changed. Will that revolution be good or will it destroy us? Vote in 2018 to make change for the better for all of us.
5
At one point Capitalism and Democracy had a symbiotic relationship but that relationship is seriously strained. Capitalism is now parasitic. It is quite literally destroying our democracy. Citizens United was perhaps the single worse ruling that the Supreme Court has ever made. Consequently we stand by in anguish watching helplessly as the GOP gleefully destroys every corner of this country. Corporate interest and the top 1% aka donor interest is now what rules our government rather than the We The People.
200
Democracy is impossible within a capitalist system. Capitalism generates such concentrated wealth which, in a capitalist society, directly equates to power and freedom, and this will always subvert democracy.
Capitalism has already subverted democracy in the US, as was clearly proven in research of Gilens and Page. Predictably, the capitalist-owned media marginalized the study as they do to any voice that tells the truth: the US is an oligarchy, and has been for decades.
https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_a...
4
I read in the NYT that Federal Judges can be impeached. Maybe we should start that process.
2
It's not capitalism that's destroying our country. It's libertarianism, the avaricious offspring of capitalism without a soul. This philosophy created by James Buchanan at the University of Virginia in the '50s has been promulgated in a stealth agenda by the Republican radical right funded by Charles Koch. Libertarianism a ala Koch has no soul and is fundamentally mean spirited. It seeks to enshrine permanently in our Constitution provisions which exclude the Federal government from acting in the common good. Prof Nancy MacLean of Duke University in her book Democracy in Chains brings this stealth agenda to light. I would recommend reading her book for a thorough understanding of how sinister libertarianism's agenda truly is.
2
If you look at other democracies and countries that have failed it is often tied to wealth inequality where those with means only care about themselves and their "job" in this life is to accumulate more wealth.
The places where people are happiest and most successful are where there are strong social safety nets and healthcare for all. Yes the taxes are more but there is a sense of we are all in this together.
How much money is enough? What do 5 houses bring you that 1 doesn't? I just don't understand and I am blessed and happy not to ever understand this way of thinking.
9
Capitalism is for the benefit of the capitalists,investors,NOT for the plebeians on whom capitalism prey upon sans any sense of social responsibility or social sensitivity.Capitalists feel that its not their responsibility to care for the public.
Democracy as its practiced in America is consumeristic Corporatocracy . Democratic Govt. has been hijacked and made puppets of capitalists which is easy by funding the political parties literally bribing them .
There is a middle path between democracy and communism which is what sensible erstwhile developing countries are doing very successfully.Their political system (eg. India's) is known as socialistic democracy which is centered on the people and not on profits. Profits are to be fully shared with the people by building infrastructural facilities,developing education and health care systems and on caring for the old, disabled and the rank poorest of the poor.
The government need to extract money from the rich like a skilled bee-hiver extracts honey from the bee hive without too much hurting the bees so that they can continue to make honey,but extracting optimum honey from the hive.The Govt does this by their taxation and confiscation policies without allowing any one organization or individual or group of individuals to amass too much wealth to enable them to buy the govt. itself.Growth need to be controlled and regulated. Growth Limits need to be set lower than the sky for balanced growth lest it become cancerous growth.
2
I'm not a Millenial, but I am terrified of the consequences of this bill. Obviously, Republicans don't bother to do any real historic analysis, namely the conditions leading up to the crash of 1939, which was the onset of the Great Depression. They are creating those same conditions. I fully expect this to lead to another massive recession, and perhaps a second Depression. Instead of chasing women (well, in my case, men) and spending money on booze (but yes, on occasion, I have bought a bottle of wine, for which I guess I should apologize), I've re-invested my small income into my home, which is my livelihood, in order to improve that livelihood. I can't help but feel it is all for naught. I've invested, Messers. Hatch and Grassley, and worked hard, doing most of the labor myself, but your bill will render those investments and all that labor irrelevant and may cost me (and many others, again) my home.
The middle and working classes would be wise to start preparing for a massive economic crash. It's coming. No economy survives these kinds of gaps in wealth and income. The GOP is such a freakish, irresponsible, cruel party now.
4
The fact that a lot of young people in Manhattan like to think of themselves as socialist has little to do with the rest of America. The 44-42 poll numbers are a little more interesting, but associating the outrageous tax bill with capitalism itself is quite a stretch. The last paragraph in the column makes a lot of sense, but the first few paragraphs seem drenched in the kind of east-coast liberalism that doesn't go over well in Peoria, or even Cincinnati.
Try to avoid the "s" word. It's not good for anybody.
2
Capitalism has no built in restraining mechanism. It will inevitably evolve towards highly concentrated money and power in the hands of a few individuals.
The benefits of "free trade" can only flow to all of society if that tendency of Capitalism is tempered by "socialist" policies that balance the selfish elements of human behavior with the requirements of an orderly, prosperous and safe social structure.
Capitalism is not the solution when the result is a huge portion of society living in poverty, unable to afford healthcare or even sanitary basic living conditions and becoming sick with tuberculosis. Once epidemics start among the weak it is only a matter of time before the strong are also sick. At that point the only solution is to take some of the money from the hands of the Capitalists and invest it in clean water supplies, adequate food, and hospitals to care for the sick.
3
Poor people get food stamps and free healthcare in the US via Medicaid -- better and more generous health care than most working class folks can afford.
The idea that "all poor folks are dying in the streets from TB" is ridiculous and provably untrue. In the US, the greatest threat to the health of the poor is....massive obesity.
1
Capitalism isn't the problem. The problem is Unregulated Capitalism, which is what we have now in the US. Capitalists write their own ticket while harming workers. Inequality is a direct result of unregulated capitalism. Regulate capital the way we regulate utilities, i.e. to serve the public rather than the investors, and capitalism can again work.
4
I would prefer a middle way.
Like Sweden, maybe. Or Denmark.
They seem pretty happy.
7
I'll add the correction about democratic socialism that seems to be needed over and over. Most advanced countries thrive on at least hybrid economic systems that include democratic socialism. The capitalist propaganda would have people continuing to imagine some grim autocratic Soviet communist society. It's a great ploy. Actually there's a lot of socialism going on in this country right now--socialism for the rich, giving taxpayer money to the wealthy corporations--as well as openly so--Social Security and Medicare. No wonder the robber capitalists want to privatize those institutions. The combination of greed and self-identified superiority knows no bounds. Maybe Marx was accurate about the last stage of capitalism and these young people are in the vanguard of change.
4
One detects in this piece the stirrings of historical change. And let us make no mistake — historical change is not gentle.
We have been living in a period of exceptional peace, stability and prosperity relative to the historical norm — in fact the longest period of global peace since the Romans. Yet we have treated these happy circumstances like they are the default, not the exception.
I worry about the world we are making, and even more I worry for those who will inherit it.
2
What has been lost in our society is the "socio" potion of our socioeconomic system. Capitalism in the proper context offers proper incentives to better ones self and work hard to get ahead. However, it cannot exist in a vacuum. Without the necessary governmental regulations and constraints, it becomes the vulture capitalism we are experiencing now; where the rich prey on everyone else.
2
I really loathe articles that try to put "millennials" all in the same group.
We don't hate capitalism. We hate the lies we've been told about it. We hate -unregulated- capitalism. We bought the lie that we had to spend tens of thousands of dollars on an education, there would be good jobs.
My money doesn't go to "booze or women or movies", it goes to rent and car insurance and my $500/month student loan payment (and that's AFTER free tuition!)
Unregulated capitalism assumes that those with the money will also act ethically and morally. We millennials know that is a lie.
421
Unregulated capitalism assumes that those with the money will also act ethically and morally. We millennials know that is a lie.
This has proven to be the case since the founding of the country. We are in a repeat cycle of the Robber Barons.
4
I also know millennials; some of them are my own kids! or step kids.
They are not some socialist rebels. They are quite conservative. They all have fantastic high paying jobs, and own houses, and have children of their own. They are not "rebel college students".
Millennials are a huge group -- bigger than the baby boomers -- which is likely a population bomb, but it does mean they are VERY DIVERSE. They all don't think alike.
A bunch of hard left college students in Brooklyn, attending a lecture on "why socialism is better" means nothing. It would mean something if the lecture were in Little Rock, Arkansas or Montgomery, Alabama or someplace in flyover country.
5
You say, "I really loathe articles that try to put 'millennials' all in the same group." And then you say over and over again the word "we."
Huh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-45IV5QV_9Y
Prof. Richard Wolff explained in this interview a solution for Capitalism and the growing interest in business coops or the workers owning the business. If a business is going too sell itself then the workers should have first chance at purchasing. They will do what is in the best interest of the community. Local communities stand to gain from retaining local taxes and politicians that support this gain loyal voters. This is people, not government ownership of business.
The Neoliberals and Neocons have done a lot of damage to this country, giving us now Trump who might well drive in the final knife. We need politicians who think differently and are not subservient to corporations now more than ever, if we can make it past Trump
4
My son and his friends seems to be more like European social democrats that flat out socialists. They understand the benefits of a market economy. But thay are not looking for an unfettered one with endless consolidation and a government that is no more that a gaggle of crony capitalists and their political coat holders. Libertarianism to them is no more than the anarchy of the elite, locking in the above power structure. Unlike the stereotypes that represent a small minority, these men and women work hard and pay their bills within what is becoming a severely vindictive economy. Now if can only get more of them to vote and not for the Jill Steins of the world.
3
We as a nation have been spoiled. Like that spoiled child, our days of plenty and wine and roses is coming to a fast ending. Millennial young adults see that. They also have traveled and see that some forms of socialism in society do work in other countries. Unless your parents are wealthy, can pay for your education, your future does not look too rosy. Housing. Employment. The ability to have and raise a family. All questions in their minds with no good answers. When they see trump, McConnell, hatch, cornyn standing there gloating after robbing them of their future. It is not hard to see how differently they see the world from these old men in suits who have made millions gaming the capitalist system. How different is this, they think, than Putin and his oligarchs?
4
The tax bill is not emblematic of Capitalism. It is emblematic of Putin's kleptocracy, along with everything else Trump is doing these days to disparage and undermine democratic institutions, while enriching himself, his family, and his cronies and peers.
1
Social systems such as an economic system are not natural, we humans make them. It's human nature and the evolution of us that creates the issues. We are lazy, greedy, tribal. But our intellect can lead us to create those checks and balances to protect us from ourselves; laws, regulations.
Capitalism can be innovative and creative, it also contains its own means to disruption. In the period prior to the Great Depression, economic downturns occurred every 2-3 years, yes in every decade there were 3-5 downturns. After Keynes there are downturns, although more severe, every 8 years or so. Systems such as the Fed, stimulus spending and unemployment insurance were put in place to change Capitalism's effects. We changed how we act and behave.
As to a better way, well my bookshelf has Karl Marx's Das Kapital right next to Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations.
3
Millennials can keep dreaming of a world more fair, more peaceful, more communitarian, more good than bad. They can dream forever. The word socialism in this country, even in this very column, has been turned into code language for "loss of freedom" by more than half a century of relentless propaganda. The world may, with luck, grow more fair in other countries but here it will only grow less so. The plutocracy and the oligarchy have won. They've been working to conquer that ground for a very long time and are never giving it back. "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will." The death of this country lies in the simple fact that no longer is anyone demanding that power concede anything.
2
Nice column, and sweet to see more reports of young people taking up the cudgel. As we fight on for economic justice, it seems useful to note that we would probably be sufficiently funded as a society if wealthy people simply paid what they owe. Parking money in the Caribbean seems to have only gotten worse under Trump, and despite statements to the contrary, the super-rich don't want to pay a fair share; they want to pay nothing, arguing that they are the worthy lords and nobles who make everything possible.
I would note one slight criticism: this column suggests a dichotomy, communism vs. capitalism. But communism was an ideal that was practically stillborn in the feudal chaos of Russia, and its creators veered quickly into autocratic, murderous rule "in the name of the people." Capitalism has clearly fared better, yet we see this current transfer of wealth upward at a time when economic inequality is steadily getting worse. In other words, both poles of this set of opposites have been unjust and unsustainable.
Other states have had real success with socialism in various forms, with room for capitalistic innovations and rewards, while maintaining a healthy conscience that doesn't leave behind ordinary working people, people with disabilities, the elderly, minorities who lack access to the mainstream, immigrants, and so on.
Perhaps I am a geezer, but that's what I hear young people talking about, and trying to find a way toward realizing.
1
Great piece, Michelle! My heart is broken for my little grandchildren.
2
Ms. Goldberg says out loud what I have been thinking for years: The apologists for laissez-faire capitalism believe that the rich are better people in every way than those who do not have piles of money.
Furthermore, a thirty-year propaganda campaign, first by AM talk radio, then through right-wing megachurches that mysteriously sprang up overnight, then by Fox News, and then by various websites, now by all at once, has convinced many non-affluent Americans that a European-style safety net would involve their paying extra taxes to support people--especially dark-skinned and foreign-born people-- who chose not to work.
I find that most right-wingers fall into one of two categories: 1) Those who are wealthy enough that they can't foresee any circumstances in which they would need a safety net, and 2) Those who have never left the U.S. to experience the quality of life in another First World country.
2
Here's the problem, though: Millennials don't vote. They have the lowest voter turnout of any age group. Until that is fixed, they can organize all they want, it will have little to no impact.
2
What is capitalism exactly? It is about free markets, and for its patron saint, Adam Smith, that above all meant free entry by everyone into the markets, or the opportunity to be able to do whatever you did best. It was meant to give everyone an opportunity to be in control of their own lives. Smith was under no illusion about the nature of business people. Whenever two or more business people are gathered together, he wrote, they are conspiring against the public and governments ought to give least weight to their arguments as opposed to others in society. He also believed in public goods, such as education, which should be provided by the state. What capitalism did not mean was managed markets and a system which shut out people from opportunities to be as good as they could. Smith was, after all, a moral philosopher. His justification for what would develop into capitalism is moral. It is hard to see what is moral about what is happening around the world, but above all in the United States. Can what we have be really called capitalism?
And what is the socialism so many young people support? Total state control or the mixed economy of social democracy? There is a big difference.
1
See here is the problem- Capitalism only works when there are tighter rules set in place and the government is actually controlled by the people, or it works for them. The reason guys like Ford and Rockerfeller started treating their workers good was because Big Business was not in any way controlling and lobbying out the government like it is today. Unions were also more powerful too and there were more workers rights. We see today what happens when Capitalism as so little regulations, no workers rights for the most part and lots of loopholes to jump through- its a monster that needs to he caged because all its doing is driving up poverty and inequality.
The system is failing. No question. I meana jesus if we this current group of lobbiests, CEOs and Republicans during the great depression with the same mantality they had for the Recession some years back, we would all be speaking German right now,US would have been finished by the early 40s.
The path out is clear-The US needs to keep the core of capitalism intact, but it needs to transition from a Capitalistic Republic to a Social Democracy. Its either that or open your History books to the Fall of Rome pt 2
In 1848, Marx and Engels wrote: "A spectre is haunting Europe, the spectre of Communism." Why did they write these words in their manifesto? Michelle Goldberg's last sentence explains it all, that what was true in 1848, as revolution after revolution swept across Europe, to December of 2017, 169 years later:
"You don’t have to want to abolish capitalism to understand why the prospect is tempting to a generation that’s being robbed."
I disagree on 2 points: There IS a coherent economic rationale: Grab all the wealth and power we can while Republicans control all 3 branches of government. That it's not just dreadful but catastrophic for the economy and the Republic didn't stop Putin, Erdogan, Duterte, or Mugabe. Putin's PERSONAL wealth is equal to 1/7th of the ENTIRE Russian Federation's annual GDP! That he trashed Russia's economy is meaningless to him.
Second, it's not really Socialism that Millennials want to live under, but Social Democracy, the so-called "Socialism" of the Scandinavian nations. It's not true Marxist Socialism, where government owns the means of production. Even Lenin found that didn't work and backed off, created the New Economic Policy, or NEP, that was, simply, heavily regulated Capitalism.
No, it's where "Socialism" is really a synonym of State-sponsored ocial welfare programs, from health care, to retirement, to free education, and infrastructure development, what we think of as a humane, Progressive society going back to TR's "Fair Deal".
1
The vast majority of people running this country care mostly about themselves and others just like them. Capitalism repeatedly falls into this trap when it appears to be on top. I wonder if we'll be able to salvage our system this time around?
What ever happened to the infrastructure bill? Is improving bridges, subways, roads and sidewalks all too socialist for the Republicans? Another reason young people, who actually use transit and will be here long after Trump and McConnell are ancient history, have no love for this form of runaway capitalism.
I was born in 1960. Back then, the baby boom was considered to have ended in 1959; now it's 1963, according to some publications. Regardless, I am clearly not a millennial, nor do I have much respect for the capitalist system, not since my early twenties.
Millennials do not have a monopoly on disgust for a system based on the pursuit of wealth. Perhaps the author is too young, or has a memory to poor recall what "the establishment" was, and why people railed against it 50 years ago.
The aging population is why millenials feel like they are getting robbed. The elderly are the primary recipients of the welfare state. In the US, Social Securiy and Medicare have more people aging into them every day. By 2040, tne percentage of the US population aged 65 and over will be 21% - and that's small compared to a country like Germany, where it will be 29%.
The US, Canada and the countries of the EU are in the midst of a silver tsunami that makes th capitalism versus socialism question irrelevant.
Oh, but there is a "coherent economic rationale" for what the Republicans are doing---it is called, "I've got mine Jack," and no one is going to take it away from me. I know my polling is unrepresentative, but, my Republican neighbors, all in business, will not reinvest their tax break monies to hire more people and pay higher wages--no based on my less than scientific survey, they will make some large scale purchases---who drives a three year old Mercedes--or reinvest the money in the market so they can leave a nice nest egg for their children---who now with no estate tax make this investment well worthwhile.
Nice elision Michelle. It's either capitalism US style or communism. No other options, except maybe a political economy like in many countries in Europe, versions of socialism. And while some places in Europe are in some difficulty, do you contend that we're not? And you recognized a problem of increased concentration of wealth and power, as in the tax "reform bill" and the impending demise of net neutrality. Socialism isn't communism, and democracy can be difficult under each capitalism and socialism. We could try some real democracy , no Citizens United, no Kochs et al.calling the tune.That's not what we have now with our "donors" demanding fealty from legislatures in their thrall. But MAGA.
Of course, people in their 20s and 30s distrust capitalism while their elders "take it for granted." The great majority of people in their 20s and 30s have yet to acquire significant wealth, while those of us in our 60s have accumulated capital through 30 years of labor, savings or inheritance. So naturally, young people have less 'invested' in capitalism—they always have and always will. It's not a phenomenon unique to millenials: baby boomers deplored capitalism in the 1960s and 1970s. And the millenials' distrust of capitalism will vanish, too, as they advance in their careers, earn more, save more, accumulate, and inherit. (See Thomas Pickety's charts on the proportion of capital held by the elderly, in "Capital in the 21 Century.") Wealth stays lodged in the elderly but fortunately most of us don't stay young forever, but gradually pass into old age—and one of the very few benefits of doing so is finding yourself with a bit of money at long last. Today's millenial Marxists are the capitalist codgers of 2040. I know. I've been there.
As automation takes root and access to essential natural resources becomes even more centralized, people will demand socialism. Call it the Jeff Bezos effect.
As we hit 10 billion people resources will need to be rationed fairly, not marked up for profit.
As pollution and climate change destroy economies, lesser hit areas will need to help out, while not looking for profit.
As jobs and living wages become more scarce, and more centralized, a plan will need to be made which supports the jobless.
As more people live well past 100, unable to work, retirement tapped, we will need to adapt.
Capitalism has run its coarse. I give another 50 years, if that.
It's either socialism, or rich people eating 15 dollar apples and 38 dollar broccoli in their gated communities, while everyone else scrambles for synthetic gruel, a rationed opiod, and Nestles bottled water delivered like milk use to be -- if you paid your bitcoin bill.
"...in a recent survey that 44 percent of millennials would prefer to live in a socialist country."
Were they given examples of socialist countries as part of the question, or are they relying on their own understanding of what one is? When they say they would prefer to live in a "socialist country" do they mean one of the Scandinavian countries? Because I could get behind having that overall standard of living here in the US.
Underlying the differential preferences of millennials and older Americans is the delusion that the cold war was Socialism vs Capitalism. In fact, it was a battle between Soviet Totalitarian Socialism and American Democratic Capitalism. That is, the differences between Soviet regime and the US was both economic systems (socialism vs capitalism) and political systems (totalitarian and democratic).
Millennial recognize that these two factors (economic system and political system) admit of FOUR combination (1) Democratic Socialism, (2) Totalitarian Socialism, (3) Democratic Capitalism, and (4) Totalitarian Capitalism. Millennial take democracy for granted, so when they express a preference for Socialism them mean Democratic Socialism as found in several European countries versus Democratic Capitalism as in the US.
Their elders who prefer Capitalism are likely assuming that Socialism and Totalitarianism are inherently linked as in the Soviet Union, and similarly Capitalism and Democracy are inherently linked. We (these elders) were indoctrinated by both sides to see the cold war as a choice with only two options. Our millennial children are free to recognize four options, and Democratic Socialism sounds pretty good.
It is fortunate that there is a great deal of ideological and pragmatic space between Jacobin and Reason magazine. Regarding the former, one unfortunate aspect of the Sander's campaign was that it spread the notion that Western Europe was a present example of Democratic Socialism. Understanding that DS is not Marxist-Leninism, neither is it Social Democracy much less the mixed economies of Western Europe. It must be rather surprising for Germans to hear that in the US it is widely asserted that their Center- Right government is Democratic Socialist. As for Reason magazine,Libertarians deploy two arguments for their views; that ultra-minimal state capitalism is more prosperous than any alternative, and that private property is an absolute right. The first is simply historically illiterate, the most prosperous nations have been Social Democratic or at least mixed in terms of their economic systems. Regarding the second view, I asked a libertarian if it were the case that one family held 98% of the arable land and then decided that they were going to just leave it fallow whether the starving vast majority had the duty to respect these property rights and stand with their faces at the fences around the empty land while their children starved. He waited no time t all to answer that the world's population would have a duty to starve rather than take the land. There is simply no moral foundation for property rights of this strength.
I am not the only one who has neglected the reeponsibilities of citizenship, which are not limited to voting in November. Our schools no longer teach civics, so many young people cannot name the three branches of government, and seem to believe that there is only one amendment to the Constiturion. Lower case capital is necessary, the issue is who controls, uses, profits from it. At this time big money does that. It will take a lot of effort by many little people such as I to change that constructively at the ballot box
The tax bill has nothing to do with capitalism and free markets. It's about power and rent seeking. The political economy under socialism would have the same problems, just with different groups of people getting or losing power.
Socialism fails because there are no incentives for risk taking and it encourages free riders.
When communism fell, I was working as a temp for an economic think tank. I watched the triumphalism of the economists and bankers, who obviously felt that they did not have to worry about competition from liberal and socialist ideals any more, and that New Deal liberalism was dead. Capitalism had won. Period.
I felt like screaming at the Ph.D. economists and their banker clients, but I knew they would not listen. It was obvious that, with no competition from unions and liberal ideology in the U.S., the employer class didn’t have to be quite so nice to us, the workers, any more. Unions had shrunk, and liberalism was at low ebb. Yesterday’s middle-right ideology was today’s liberalism (which freaked me out at the time). Did you know, for example, that Bill Clinton was actually farther to the right than Richard Nixon (who actually did quite a lot of good on the social front)?
If you want to get really depressed, compare what unionized workers had in the 1950s and 1960s with what you get today, even if you’re NOT a contract worker, a temp, or a gig worker like me.
I actually voted for Nixon, so I’m not a millennial. But if you millennials want to start a socialist party or a socialist revolution, I’ll be right there cheering for you.
OK, millenials, here's your plan:
1. Vote out every GOP senator, representative, governor, and state assembly person you can in 2018. It should be clear to anyone in the 99% that the GOP cares only about the rich and entitled. Make an exception for any moderate Republicans you may happen across.
2. Make it crystal clear to the Democrats that they're next unless they stop eating at the corporate trough.
I've thought for years that this country is inevitably headed towards a capitalist/socialist hybrid, as runaway capitalism makes a bad name for itself and the population increases while jobs disappear to foreign outsourcing and automation. If there aren't safety nets and the middle class gives way to more and more socio-economic extremes, "let them eat cake" won't cut it for long, and we'll shift to a capitalist/socialist hybrid or there will be revolution. Change can come the nice way or the ugly way, but change will come eventually.
In the meantime, I'm a bit skeptical about Millennials leading the charge. Maybe some, but they do seem to be free-wheeling spenders. From an 11/28/17 article on Black Friday holiday shopping: "Older millennials (ages 25 to 34) were the biggest spenders, with an average output of $419.52, the federation said."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/business/holiday-spending-surpasses-f...
And the general population is predicted to spend over $900 per household on Christmas this year. This tells me people are not yet too concerned about their finances, though they may live to regret it.
1
I was born in 1951 and dislike capitalism. We have yet to see a true communist country, but have many examples of communist acts, e.g.; socialized medicine, that inspire hope for the future. We must promote co-operation and discourage competition. Collectivism not capitalism.
Most talk of capitalism and socialism treats these as polar opposites, each representing a single, well-defined way to organize society. Why are the anti-communists alarmed about talk of socialism if it's the European democratic socialist variety? This does not preclude capitalism; it just restricts its worst tendencies. Capitalism doesn't have to be all bad, either. It wasn't nearly as bad in the sixties, in part due to high tax rates that enabled a large middle class and kept oligarchy at bay.
At least as important as the socialist-capitalist dimension is the level of democracy. Many assume socialism = capitalism = dictatorship, and that capitalism = democracy.
Anyone willing to take an honest look at the USA today will recognize that our level of democracy is in freefall, with the second republican occupying the WH despite losing the (people's) vote. And the GOP has finally torn off the mask and admitting they obey their donors, not their constituents, and that deficit hawks only care about cutting programs that benefit the needy, many of whom used to be middle class.
A survey asking only about capitalism vs socialism is unhelpful. Dig down to find out why people (young and old) are fed up with the current system, and I assure you it's about greed, bigotry, and loss of democratic representation. The GOP is able to do the economic damage they are doing because the system is not democratic. It's not about "capitalism", per se.
Before you cheer your Communist uprising, you should remember your history. In the early 20th century, Communists were enthralled to Marx's words ("from those with the greatest ability to those with the greatest need"). Consequently, anyone who needed anything felt entitled to take from others - by force if needed. The result was the Bolshevik Revolution. Millions died including members of my family.
According to the non-partisan Tax Foundation, the tax cuts as a share of income are nearly the same across income groups. The more liberal analysis is based on the idea that the corporate tax cuts (which are the core of the bill) accrue more to investors than to workers. Yet, Kevin Hassett, head of the Council of Economic Advisors predicts that the corporate expansion will result in each family seeing an increase of at least $4,000/yr from increased wages.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/16/the-average-ameri...
A comparison to the Obama stimulus is instructive. Of the $800 bn spent, nearly half was funneled to states to mitigate public worker job losses (which is convenient since public unions are the largest donors to the Democratic party). However, 85% of Americans work in the private sector. They realize that what is good for business is often good for them. Given years of anemic growth under Obama, it's time we tried to expand the private sector rather than government.
1
How much money must the wealthy have to ever satisfy themselves? Many of these clamoring for tax cuts are already have a net worth of hundreds of millions or even billions and live like kings. Despite their wealth, they only want more. Why? It is certainly about more than money. It is mainly about power, rather than greed.
They did just fine financially during the Obama years, but they did not feel like they had power. That was Obama's mistake: He thought just letting them make more money would be enough. It wasn't. So the Kochs, Mercers and their ilk decided that given our weak campaign finance laws and Citizens United they could use their wealth to buy the power they craved. The GOP was quite willing to be bought. The tax bill is the prime example of that.
Some of the quotes in Michelle's article make clear that they are even angry at those who are not wealthy like them and get some benefits from the government. But this, too, is about power. They want to decide who gets what and how much. They want to be like royalty, doling about largess as they see fit. They truly believe they are smarter than the rest of us and deserve power over all of us.
So is it any wonder that idealistic young people are questioning capitalism? They see a system where the uber rich want not only all the money but also all the power, and they have bought politicians to do it. If millennials vote for a more "socialist" government in the future, these would-be kings can thank themselves.
1
Three comments:
1. An oligarchy of capitalists came to be because of governmental regulation of just about everything related to businesses, large and small. Big companies love regulations, contrary to claiming otherwise, because they create expensive for barriers to entry for small businesses to successfully start up and compete.
2. US corporate tax rates have been too high for decades. If there was only one thing that could have been corrected in tax reform, this was the number one priority. We needed to create opportunity on the home front.
3. Blaming the tax bill for Millennial attitudes towards capitalism is misplaced. The tax reform legislation could have been better, for sure. But the blame must go to the Democrat Senators who refused to compromise. Living in a high SALT “blue state,” my perspective is that Dem’s did a major disservice for their constituents.
More opportunity for Millennials and everybody else will prove once again that capitalism always trumps socialism. Was it Margaret Thatcher who said something to the effect “Socialism works until the other guy runs out of money.”
1
This past year, the NY Times Book Review looked at several books that revisited the socialist revolution/October Revolution in Russia and the aftermath. It was not pretty. Basically murder & the needless loss of life for millions, with an end result within just a few years after 1917 perfectly described by Ms. Goldberg here: "the raw exercise of power by a tiny unaccountable minority that believes in its own superiority."
Certainly capitalism has its failings and can be improved. Millenials may want to read about the October Revolution before chucking capitalism. Yes, Socialist Democratic nations such as Sweden, Norway and most of Europe have more progressive taxation and offer more generous modern welfare states. However, the US also heavily subsidizes these countries by paying for their military defense, freeing up valuable resources for universal health care, etc. If Europe paid for our military, perhaps this nation would be more progressive. In the US, even so-called progressive "socialist democrats" such as Bernie Sanders put the military Keynesianism of, for example, the F-35 fighter jet, ahead of the health and home values of their own constituents. When even Bernie won't stand up vs military-industrialists, how much hope to evolve in US?
In the end, I think capitalism is a little similar to democracy and what Winston Churchill had to say about it. "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."
Capitalism has become its own form of religion. Like most religious followers, the majority never questions it, even when it contradicts itself. We simply cannot imagine anything else and so it seems the best we can do.
Millennials are right to be suspicious of capitalism as practiced in 2017. It needs to be reformed and Bernie Sanders is the politician with the ideas on how to do that.
You are also right that there is an ideology at work. Here is a quote from the 1956 book: The Power Elite by C Wright Mills.
"And since the criterion of ability is the making of money, of course ability is graded according to wealth and the very rich have the greatest ability. But if that is so, then ability cannot be used as an explanation of the rich, to use acquisition of wealth as a sign of ability and then use ability as an acquisition of wealth is merely to play two words for the same fact: the existence of the very rich"
In the form of the 2008 crash, capitalism failed millenials perhaps more than any other group in this country - and, it must also be said, President Obama and his Administration failed them as well in their (mis-)handling of the recovery from the crash, by focusing on getting Wall Street back on its feet while giving short shrift (or no shrift at all) to promoting opportunities for millenials, whose relative lack of working experience, having just finished their education, put them at a disadvantage compared to others in seeking employment. The stories of recent college graduates, in the wake of 2008, having to take jobs as secretaries, baristas, etc. which don't pay enough for them to afford their own apartment (forget about an actual house), are legion.
So yes, a large percentage of millenials do hate capitalism, at least the way it has been practiced in this country for the past decade, and for good reason. Many of them are also turned off by our political system as a result; they may hate the Republicans, esp. in the Trump era, but they also don't trust the Democratic Party to look out for their interests either. If the Democratic Party wants to reverse its recent slide in electoral fortunes, one of things it needs to do is convince them that it really does have their interests at heart this time and will fight for them.
I do think it's odd that people believe that corporations who now pay millions to tax attorneys to get their tax payments as close to zero as possible will suddenly fire all of them and just pay the 20% now proposed because it is so much lower. I think I read somewhere that the tax corporations pay is really closer to 15% so why wouldn't they keep doing what they're doing? Oh right because they are going to invest in employees all of a sudden and pay them more! Please. Corporate profits are as high as they have ever been and wages are still stagnant for the middle class as they have been for years. Maybe I've become a cynic since I've had to watch executive salaries go from 24 times the average worker to over 300 times and companies as revered as Apple stash their profits in foreign countries so that they can reduce their tax burden here. I wish I believed in the fantasy this Congress is trying to sell but I have seen too much.
Yes, the new tax plan is pure class warfare; however, it's a weak argument to say that because millennials--and most reasonable people-- who oppose the tax plan millennials hate capitalism. I don't see millennials rejecting materialism, moving to communes, and living off the land like 60's counterculture. I see millennials enthralled with mid-century modern design and thrilled with their smartphones and smartwatches. While they may be engaged in urban farming, they probably get most of their exercise through their gym or yoga membership. According to Forbes, millennials spend $600 billion annually and that's 28% of all daily per-person consumer spending. I applaud millennials concern for fairness and social justice, but to say they hate capitalism is absurd.
The European economies (and always Canada) progressives identify as proving the superiority of socialism over capitalism are capitalist, and in most cases rapaciously so. Germany and Canada are some of the best economic competitors in the world, even France, maligned as hopelessly statist, plays to win and is skilled in world financial and manufacturing markets. In these countries, private property rights are protected and contracts are enforced to permit markets to operate. That's capitalism at work. The difference is that these places recognize the weaknesses of capitalism and use government to manage market excesses and fill in the gaps where those markets fail to distribute resources fairly. It's still capitalism. For examples of communism or extreme forms of socialism, the salons in NY will need to educate their millennial patrons on a good number of failed regimes (Soviet Union and Soviet bloc) and a few current-day basket-cases (Cuba, Venezuela). Now it's true that there are failed capitalist economies too, but on balance, capitalism, rightly managed, has done a better job of distributing scarce resources to more people more equitably than every other system we've tried yet.
Capitalism, Socialism, Communism - all of these ideologies end up in the same place in practice - a de-facto oligarchy.
It's easier to see how communism gets there because so much is vested in central planners so quickly. Capitalism takes more time but ultimately, the winners of market competition have an interest in staying winners. Their resources allow them to buy out their competitors and bribe legislators for passing laws to keep new competition out.
Look at our own society - big business has been doing mergers and acquisitions at a record clip, new firm formation has been declining for decades. These aren't coincidences, this is a natural outcome of past economic winners cementing their position.
Thank you for this article! Finally, even the New York Times is willing to engage in honest, critical talk about the obvious perils of capitalism. This should not just be an intellectual exercise but should extend to the U.S.'s approach to social and public policy. And I'm not even a millennial.
Capitalism works when there are rules that recycle capital back throughout society. When capital is not bound by rules, it is highly efficient at creating concentrated piles for a few, where it gets stuck as concentrated, undiluted power over the many without capital. Capitalism is an unfair system unless it is properly and fairly restrained by rules.
Free Markets? Free, for who?
Millennials to Hatch - We are tired of seeing billions and billions and trillions of dollars going to the wealthy who can't help themselves but take more - and don't need to lift a finger as they expect the federal government to give them ever more money and financial giveaways for nothing in return.
Grassley's perverse comment praising the idle rich descendants who are spending - or is it investing - in half a billion dollar painting only to store it with their fancy cars, and other other priceless loot. While disparaging those who are struggling to invest in their child's education, health care, housing and food. Yet after their reverse mortgage runs out there will be nothing to leave as inheritance except negative capital - debt.
Socialism is NOT communism. Look at communes for communism at work. Socialism simply benefits more people equally, where capitalism benefits the fewest the most - unless there are rules in place. But rules do not apply to Oligarchs or Plutocrats. Capitalism works best when most people benefit - a form of Socialism. Look at the success of Scandinavian countries.
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This is some weird version of capitalism that is more of a buffet for the rich. Capitalism itself has created societies that are significantly more well-off, healthy, stable than only a hundred years ago. But it needs to be tamed with social nets, health insurance etc, all the more so as digitisation will change industries and create upheaval in the job market.
The simple thing that most liberals try their best to ignore is that currently the rich pay at much higher effective tax rates than the rest (taking into account loopholes, deductions and credits), which is immoral. The tax bill decreases the gap (but doesn't close it). Decreasing downward redistribution isn't in itself an upward distribution. Money is not being taken from the poor and being given to the rich -- instead the rich are being allowed to (rightly) keep more of their own money. Refer to this piece to see who pays how much tax based on federal income data. http://lockeanliberal.com/2017/11/26/the-rich-deserve-a-tax-cut/
The problem is not capitalism--it's America's current version of capitalism. America's oligarchs, through organizations like ALEC, have duped people into thinking that the only alternative to the capitalism of the here and now is some form of Stalinist suppression. Northern Europe has done well with mixed economies. And let's remember that the contentment of the people is at least as important as the growth of GDP.
The Western civilization's debate between Communism and Capitalism assumes the underlying philosophy of materialism as the basis of life. Unless the merits and demerits of materialism is addressed these dichotomy of power and morality can not be resolved. First we have to accept there is tiny minority in a country that rins the economic engine and creates the wealth. It is futile to argue this point and compare them to common citizens. The question is why this class is not interested to preserve the well being of common citizens. The root cause of this malaise is their faith in mTerialism - there worth is measured by the material possession - list of billionaires, names on foundation buildings, picture with poor African people. Materialism is necessary for common citizens but the minute elite groups that creates the most wealth needs different philosophy - a higher philosophy of "love and sacrifice". Philanthropy is not that, it is a tool of materialism to keep hold in power.when rich people lives like a begger, society thrives.
Dear Senators Hatch and Grassley,
I too have issues with spending "billion and trillions" of American tax dollars on people who don't have to "lift a finger", on those who spend their money irresponsibly.
But I'm confused - isn't it the 1% that will benefit the elimination of the estate tax and other GOP proposed changes to the tax code? Oh yea, I forgot: unlike those who would recklessly spend money on "women or booze or movies", these people will use their windfall to make socially responsible investments - private jets, outlandishly expensive jewelry, designer clothing. . .
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Just a thought on Grassley's comment: although "people" usually includes men and women, either Grassley thinks that all poor and middle class women are lesbians (out spending their money on women) or he doesn't think of them as people. Rather he thinks of them as possessions, trophies, or a vice. I believe the second interpretation is correct.
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If I remember my economic theory correctly (and it's been quite a while), Marx posited that capitalism was just an historic phase, and a system that would ultimately destroy itself through it's own excess, extremism and inherent corruption, and the injustice and inequality that would result from these; and that communism would emerge from it's ruins, deriving it's legitimacy from the consent of the people who'd had enough of market economies.. One could argue that Soviet communism failed in part because it was imposed from above, brutally at that. and that in going from what was essentially feudalism to communism, the Soviets bypassed the necessary capitalism phase.
Perhaps this is also why socialism has been accepted and relatively successful in Western Europe. People there had some experience with capitalism, however relatively brief, so moving beyond it was a choice they could make, and moderate. Also given the profound, universal suffering and destruction most of the continent experienced mid-century, "communal" recovery made sense economics-wise.
While we're over 150 years past the kind of mass suffering our civil war wrought, it's entirely possible the unfettered rape-acious capitalism the 1% (and, bizarrely, the right-wing sub-proletariat that seem willing to grant them anything) represented by Trump and his Goldman-Sachs Cabinet are imposing on our society may ultimately do the trick all by itself.
But I'm not holding my breath.
Only people who have never lived under communism or its close cousin, socialism, would long for those two terrible unfair systems under which everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others. Those of us who have lived under both (or even under one) know how corrosive those systems are.
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Better to shift to socialism than having violence in the streets. After all, conservative always talk about "fighting the oppression from Government", but they forget that people fight against other type of oppression as well.
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Conservatives want to repeal the estate tax and they want to change or repeal entitlements! Just think how much the debate would change if they advocated repealing the inheritance tax or reducing or eliminating Social Security. As a child the 1930s the wanted posters in the post office had an alias. ever since I have been wary of those who use an alias-- estate tax and entitlements.
Michelle, it’s not just Milennials - it’s a huge share of us Baby Boomers, too. We’ve known all along what it was leading to - oligarchy and dictatorship of the rich. That’s where we are, and we children of the 60s have known this all along. We’ve fought it tooth and nail, but the so-called right-wing “greatest generation” (greatest - not so much) fought us tooth and nail.
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The only solution at this point is at least a partial transition to Socialism, as right now all that happens is the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
We have no other options, as one of the two parties in America seems to think this is okay.
Michelle, after reading your words, I'm reminded of what the great economist John Kenneth Galbraith had to say. In communism, he said, it's dog eat dog. In capitalism, it's just the other way around.
Your article, as insightful as it is, makes a foundation error by comparing capitalism to communism as the only binary choice we have, and leaves out the entire European experience with successful social democratic systems. I urge your readers to inform themselves about the various ways the Europeans have sliced and diced this economic and governmental system, which has led, in my opinion, to the betterment of all, whether magnate or minion.
This tax bill represents the global crisis in the capitalist system itself. Let's stop playing around and tell the story that the data tells.
There is a perfect rationale for what the GOP is doing. Since 2009, 95% of increases in income went to the One Percent. Since 2003 we've cut ten trillion dollars in taxes before this tax bill and 85% of this newly freed capital went to "emerging markets" and stock buy backs, not local investments.
This is how capitalism works today in a global financial system.
Young people today know this. They've traveled to Europe and know that their counterparts don't begin careers with massive debt. They know the safety net they see elsewhere has been dismantled here at home.
They also know that they are the first generation in a century whose lives will not be better off than their parents.
There's a joke in Eastern Europe in the former Soviet block. It goes, "everything the communists told us about communism was a lie, but everything they told us about capitalism was the truth!"
Young people are living the meaning behind this joke and they also know that a social democratic system offers a real alternative. That's why they refused to listen to the red baiting from the mass media and overwhelming supported Bernie Sanders.
Michelle--such definitions as pure capitalism vs socialism are exaggerated and invalid. This is used as propaganda by US conservatives to condition public opinion to fear ‘big govt’. It puts the Democrats on the back foot. But govt is us, elected to protect us from the predators that historically exploited the majority. America was created to repudiate aristocracy.
Most advanced democracies have capitalism, but regulated by democratically elected govts to protect the citizen majority. Our politics is now dominated by apostles of unregulated capitalism to transfer our resources and productivity up to the elites. These elites then share some of their excessive wealth with the lawmakers that we the people elect to represent us, but who don’t.
The countries that have had health care for all for generations, plus low cost education and family and worker benefits, don’t turn their elections over to their super rich/corporate megadonors, with parties competing for favors. Their govt actually regulates insurance premiums and drug costs so all citizens can get care. Here that's off the table.
In politics, they ban privately paid ads, use free media time, more public money, and limits on private donations. Here that's off the table for the media to discuss.
If Michelle Goldberg can ignore our campaign finance, blessed by the Court to equate corporate millions with ‘free speech’, then she’s avoiding the underlying issue that’s blocking balance in our capitalism.
Goldberg is alarmed that "44 percent of millennials would prefer to live under socialism." She then implies that socialism equals communism - but that is far from the truth. Socialism provides for government support for the common good, including things like healthcare. Communism involves removal of private ownership of property and industrial production. Socialism involves taxation for the support of the public good. Social security and Medicare are part of socialism and not capitalism. Don't blame millennials for getting right.
To be serious, I can’t pretend to get inside the mind of a Millenial. To me, they seem irresponsible and self-absorbed; lots of them don’t vote and refuse to take any responsibility for things happening around them. I am not so sure they know the difference between ideas of capitalism and socialism.
These days, many liberals refer to capitalism as being neoliberal, a slightly perjorative term that I understand to be a free market economy on steroids. There is no doubt that most OECD countries, save for the U.S., have fairer economies with better social safety nets. If those can be called socialist, or mixed economies, that is just fine for most of us.
I am in my 40s and can only dream of living in a country, perhaps one of the Scandinavian ones, that actually seems to care about its people. Sure, the people have higher taxes, but those taxes pay for universal childcare, solid education, infrastructure, and universal healthcare. Sign me up! America's winner-takes-all, devil-take-the-hindmost attitude is not a recipe for long-term success or the happiness of a people.
A few of the many things that amaze me:
The sheer cluelessness Orrin Hatch and Chuck Grassley, evidenced by making statements that are a virtual declaration of class war on behalf of the very wealthy. There are, after all, more of us than there are of them, and they can't full all of us all of the time.
The unbridled greed of many wealthy citizens that leads them to whine about estate taxes. Supposedly, they have achieved their wealth through superior virtue and hard work. But their offspring must begin life with massive unearned advantages.
The seeming preference of certain groups of Christians for politicians of the lowest moral character, when they could have selected equally conservative candidates who at least have the decency to keep their hands off children and unwilling women. This is almost as amazing as their tendency to equate wealth with moral superiority. Was this what Jesus had in mind?
It's not surprising that millennial's are increasingly disenchanted with both capitalism and religion.
Andrew Carnegie and Henry Ford knew what people like Trump do not. If the people are not given a fair wage and a stake in the economy, then who will buy their products. Will not the masses rise up one day, like Europe in 1848, or Russia in 1917.
This time I think the masses rise up against tyranny again, Trump's tyranny.
Ever since greed went from being a vice to a virtue, unfettered capitalism was on the path to unsustainability. With the Republican Tax Plan, we have arrived. No longer willing to pay lip service to those less fortunate, or even the common good, this plan will be the cudgel used to eliminate additional services to the masses. We can now answer the question, "Who does this government serve?" unreservedly, "the wealthy! The expansion of the military along with the gutting of the State Department raises another uncomfortable question; How long before the military is used to suppress the unfavorables here?
Ayn Rand lives.
I naively thought Republicans were rigid ideologues hewing to a Protestant vision of people beating themselves with switches in the middle of the night to harden themselves against the rigors of a virtuous self-made life. But I was wrong. Ideology is only a flag they wave to inflame the masses to vote against their own self-interest, ultimately greed in and of itself is the only virtue.
We don't even have true capitalism, "free" markets or democracy. We have an economic and political system that has been completely hi-jacked by billionaires and corporate interests - who are trying to eat as much of the cake as possible before the whole sorry mess collapses.
I volunteer in a public elementary school which is segregated by class. I witness first-hand how reduced resources for our already suffering public schools is leading us down a self-destructive path. The Atlantic ran a story about this issue with the subtitle:
"Millions of children from poor families who excel in math and science rarely live up to their potential—and that hurts everyone."
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/12/innovation-income-c...
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Capitalism is the exploitation of less productive people by more productive people while socialism is the exploitation of more productive people by less productive people. The problem with exploitation of more productive people is that the productivity is not directly observable and therefore more productive people start pretending to be less productive. This what has happened in the good old USSR. Essentially, if the slicing of the pie does not depend on my own contribution of the pie I will not contribute to it. This is a perfectly rational behavior since it is costly for me to contribute and the outcome is independent of my contribution or depends weakly on it. Therefore, for socialism to work you need to provide either "morality" or "common good" argument. Neither one has worked in large open societies (multiracial and more than 100 million) so far.
Capitalism is the greatest economic system for creating wealth. It is the worst economic system for effectively distributing that wealth.
Democratic Capitalism is the answer.
Capitalism to create wealth, democracy to decide how to allocate that wealth. Our elected representatives deciding how best to distribute the wealth created by capitalism in no way reduces the effectiveness of capitalism to create wealth.
Democratic capitalism works only so long as we can stop those who have benefited the most from capitalism from using their wealth to corrupt our democratic process so they can have ever more.
Turning off reality TV and not relying on Google or Facebook would have worked better than the the divide and exit economic response populations around the world have had to the homogenous cultural shift of internet connectivity.
Trump is the same as Mnuchin is the same as Bezos so to speak.
“It’s the raw exercise of power by a tiny unaccountable minority that believes in its own superiority”
Doesn’t seem like either capitalism, socialism, or communism - seems more like we (those of us who are public school workers, nurses, civil service workers, and under-$75K-earners around the country) are being robbed by the children and grandchildren of wealthy people who have been raised by parents and grandparents to believe in their own entitlements. Gates and Buffet and Koch may give their money to their own family foundations - saving money in taxes and keeping control over how and on what it is spent - without transparency or accountability- BUT HOW ABOUT PAYING MORE TAXES TO HELP THE COUNTRY OUT?
The superiority of the capitalist elite is, after all, the premise of that seminal Ayn Rand tome, “Atlas Shrugged.” The titans of business, magical job creators all, opt to drop out of society and let the rest of us devolve to rack and ruin.
This hubris has always been the ever present backlight of US conservatism. It emerges explicitly now precisely because nothing else can possibly explain this foul tax bill.
Don't blame the politicians, they are simply giving the people (that fund their campaigns) what they want.
My belief has always been that the Soviet Union and its "communist" system just collapsed from its own deficiencies first. But it was always apparent that the capitalist system would follow, eventually. Ironically, the collapse of the USSR exacerbated the collapse of capitalism, as triumphalism led American elites to spread their ideology and carry it to the extremes because they thought there were no other alternatives. What you have in the GOP is a party of true believers, those who are so clueless about reality and so lacking in compassion that they have no problem stealing from the poor and "giving" to the rich who, after all, deserve it so much more. This, of course, simply increases and brings closer the day when radicalism within the American body politic becomes more powerful and leads to a massive social uprising - violent or not - against those who have stolen everything from everyone else. The GOP and Trump have been successful in combining white nationalism with economic uncertainty to create a quasi-fascist movement. A counter-movement on the political left is probably just around the corner. We saw glimmerings of it with Sanders but, as the US's rape by the oligarchs becomes more blatant, the chances of this counter-movement emerging grow stronger every day.
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I reject the arguements in this piece wholesale. Socialism is not exactly a leader of economic success in the worl. The list of countries failing to generate the dollars needed to pay for their social handouts is long. They make up with it by borrowing. Fine in the short term, unsustainable in the long term. Capitalism is all about hustle, about getting out there and succeeding. Some get left behind, true, and society and private charities should help. But to waht extent? Our "poor" have cell phones, tend to be obese, own a TV, etc. Almost half of all working age citizens pay no federall income tax (although they might pay SS or state taxes). Personal reponsibility matters. Today, far too many have their hands out or cruise along on ever-expanding government benefits. Let the capitalist market work. Free it from government shackles (taxes).Those who hustle will prosper, regardless of their place on the economic ladder. The old axiom, "A rising tide floats all boats" is not superfluous.
I find Ms. Goldberg's position, and lack of intellectual rigor, harmful to society.
Here's one example:
"Here’s one example. The Senate bill offers a tax break for parents whose children attend private school. But it cuts deductions for state and local taxes"
Ms Goldberg ignores the fact that the standard deduction is double. This fact would be inconvenient to her argument, and in typically intellectually dishonest fashion, it is ignored. There are other examples.
What is tiresome is "high school debate club" / adversarial arguments that ignore facts that don't favor ones arguments.
This style is a scourge from Liberal Arts majors such as Ms. Goldberg. Engineers and Scientists have to take all relevant facts into account, especially those that don't favor their particular thesis.
Pretty disappointing, but not unexpected.
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As a millennial in the category of "42% who want to live under capitalism," I cringe when certain friends of mine try to compare capitalism to white supremacy and racial prejudice. I try to patronize and invest for the long term in businesses that espouse principles of Conscious Capitalism, a business strategy that promotes healthy corporate culture and focuses on the benefit to all stakeholders--employees, customers, society at large, even the environment--rather than shareholders alone.
https://www.consciouscapitalism.org/
The underlying cause of the Great Depression, the Great Recession, and other severe economic downturns worldwide, is the overconcentration of wealth at the top of the pyramid. Sure, there may be specific triggers, like 2008's bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and AIG just as balloon mortgage payments were coming due for so many homeowners who had received creative mortgages, but the underlying cause in all cases is the concentration of wealth in too few hands to permit markets to thrive.
America's wealth is already considerably more concentrated than it was in 1929 or 2008, and this tax bill will accelerate the upward transfer of wealth. There will come a tipping point within the next several years, and this crash may prove to be harder, both in its initial impact and in our ability to recover from its effects, even than those other two I cited above.
And this may vindicate Millennials' (and others', myself included) mistrust of capitalism and may finally bring about REAL reform, albeit too late, alas!
It is our government's stated purpose, its reason for being, to "to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty." None of these goals is served by such blatant plutocracy.
This tax bill is the beginning of the end. It is when ultimate power exercises its position to take away from the normal citizen and give to the rich and powerful that America wakes up. This trend has been developing for a long time. Thanks to the current administration it is now blatently obvious.
To say the US capitalistic is a bit of a joke, but a remark attributed to Galbraith seems appropriate:
Another remark often attributed to Galbraith is, "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
Whenever I talk to anyone 60 or younger their biggest concern is that SS and Medicare will not be there for them. I have a hard time with this because a solution seems to be so simple. I paid SS taxes on my entire income for my entire career, Why do the rich have a tax limited to less than their entire income? Is 6.2% going to cause them some sort of discomfort?
In Proudhon's oft-quoted metonymy, "property is theft," yet capitalism as an economic system is not so easily re-cast by its close association with theft of property. And Americans who still hope to regulate and restrain capitalism to serve the common good (call that Socialism if you wish) will not easily abandon that hope.
The clearest example of capitalist theft is the GOP tax bills. Both versions, House and Senate, appropriate the earnings of the poor and middle-class to increase the wealth of the already super-wealthy and the profits of thriving corporations. This is theft by government, and the most economically disadvantaged group, millennials, rightly protest it. As Jefferson warned, "[W]henever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends [the equal protection of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government. . . ."
In Goldberg's quotations from Linton, Grassley, and Hatch, we see the ugliest distortion of capitalist greed; "no wonder," indeed, that young people struggling to pay off educational debts and to save for home ownership, for their children's futures, for retirement are appalled by our duly elected arrogant champions of coldblooded, "me-first" capitalism.
If we cannot, at the ballot box, soon secure the right to equitable treatment in taxation, I expect to see strange new forms of revolution emerging from this generation.
Millenials aren't the only persons who have lost faith in capitalism. I studied instead of partying in high school, worked for over 45 years, put myself through college and grad school and have become very successful in my field. Through prudent investing and saving my family is well cared for and enjoying life. We have also actively supported many philanthropic causes over the years
However, the current system of capitalism is no longer the system that allowed people to work hard and thrive. It is more a closed system, echoing the foolish tripe of Ayn Rand (who lived quite nicely off the same welfare system her characters derided). Hatch, Ryan and other GOP "leaders" are continuously playing on the fears of their willfully ignorant followers who they dupe into voting against their own self interest.
Unchecked and lawless capitalism will end. And it will not be a pretty end.
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We are as much a capitalist society as we are a democracy.
I think it’s pretty self evident that the tax plan is the product of a “raw exercise of power by a tiny unaccountable minority that believes in its own superiority.” The question is why do the people who will pay for it continue to vote for them?
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I was talking with a student today about what life is like these days. He said, "If you work 14 hours a day, I will work 16 hours a day, because I want that job."
And then he said, without skipping a beat, "And then both of us will be miserable."