To me, downstate ends where Metro North ends. To people in the Adirondacks, nothing not well North of Albany is upstate, and to them the Mohawk Valley is western New York. But to my Carolina relatives, anything not the city is "upstate." (They think Long Island is something else entirely)
1
This is whimsical but it would also be beneficial to said Upstate, specifically, the Finger Lakes, if the NYT would inform Down-staters that most of their trash, including raw sewage from Suffolk County, goes to mega landfills in Seneca and Ontario Counties, the largest land fills in the northeast.
Growing up in the city and now living in Albany folks in these places have different views of where upstate starts, folks here think upstate is anything north of Albany. For me growing up when I saw "Motel on the Mountain" from the Thruway I knew I was upstate
"Upstate" is where lonely Republicans wrestle control of their overtaxed home away from Democrats. Then they wake up and sigh.
1
Upstate is primarily a state of mind. It's defined by the following questions:
Is the City (meaning NYC) someplace you've only visited on a school trip, maybe at Christmas time or even never at all? if yes, you're Upstate.
Are you a Bills fan (western NYS) or a Patriots fan (eastern NYS along the Mass border)? If yes, you're Upstate.
Are half or more of the males (and, now, maybe even some females) in you're high school class not in school on opening day of deer hunting season? If yes, you're Upstate.
1
Wrong virtually all Giants and Jets fans here in Albany area.
About 65 years ago when I lived in Brooklyn I asked an aunt where Mount Vernon was. She told me, and I remember it clearly, it was a city Upstate. 10 years ago when I lived in Northern Westchester I used to tell folks I commuted Downstate to my office . . . in Mount Vernon. It's not a matter of where the line is. It's about where you are coming from.
One morning I was outside a doughnut shop in Brooklyn when a guy asked me for some change. He said he just got back from upstate and needed money. I think he meant Sing Sing.
1
It's everywhere in New York State that is south of the North Country!
I think we all know the answer to that.
1
Upstate is where football fandom shifts from Giants and Jets to Bills.
1
You forgot, a lot of people in eastern NY by the Mass border are transplanted New Englanders, going back to colonial times up until now. There are a lot of Patriots and Red Sox fans in Columbia County and north. Definitely a sign of being Upstate when you've move from being NYC-centric to Boston-centric in your sports loyalty!
What are you talking about? I habe lived here my whole life, virtually all Giants and Jets and Yankee Ann's Mets fans, that's who's games the TV and radio stations play.
Upstate begins where the Thruway turns into the Northway.
When you begin to see more Subarus than any other car, that's upstate.
5
I grew up in Greenwich Village and have spent summers with my cousins in Watertown and the 1000 Islands for over 50 years. Upstate, in my experience, is anything north of where you are. Based on that standard, “north of 14th Street” is as reasonable an answer as any.
I grew up in Tarrytown. "Upstate" always meant Dutchess County, Binghamton, Syracuse, Albany, etc. Now an NYC resident, I laugh when fellow city-dwellers say they visited Kuykuit 'upstate,' or saw where 'The Legend of Sleepy Hollow' took place, 'upstate.' But it's all a matter of perspective. What is upstate to a Cooperstowner? A Rochesterite? A Saratoga Springer? Do they even use the term?
1
There are a lot of regions to New York, and it really depends on your perspective which ones you include in the blanket term "upstate". The same could be said of the term "downstate" -- when you're living in the City, you'd never think of lumping the boroughs in with Long Island, let alone Rockland, yet...
I grew up Syracuse (Central New York), and generally considered everything above I-84 west of the hudson as "Upstate". Sometimes I might exclude the Southern Tier, or single out the North Country, or include the whole Hudson Valley above Metro-North...
2
My friend Marcus Molinaro makes the New York Times. You forgot to tell the hoi polloi he's in the hunt to run against Cuomo for governor. Maybe next time. Anyway, being from "upstate" (Albany), having lived in NYC for half my adult life, and having ended up living "just north of Poughkeepsie" for the past 15 years, I tend to agree with him. Not that it matters. By the way, here are other states where this sort of thing seems important to somebody:
UPSTATE
Apparently all of Maine, except for "Down East". Nobody really knows where that line is either. Ditto California, thanks to a 2001 marketing campaign to try to lure people to the northern half of Northern California. Then there's the oxymoronic Upstate South Carolina, which lies somewhere in the northwestern angle of South Carolina. Some people call the Poconos and surrounding tourist areas Upstate Pennsylvania, which seems counterproductive and designed as a stick in the eye of Pittsburgh..
DOWNSTATE
Downstate Illinois is supposed to be everything in the state south of Chicago, again with no clear delineation of boundaries. Interestingly, Illinois doesn't bother with "Upstate."
There are doubtless others. I can't imagine that nobody in Minnesota, Alaska, Idaho, Nevada, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi or other reasonably tall states ever uttered "upstate" or "downstate" in a sentence, or tried to enact some sort of divisive legislation based on such distinctions. Anyway, nice picture. Looks like my back yard.
At the risk of sounding snarky, I'd suggest that the writers and editors at the New York Times decided this issue for us years ago. If the story describes the place as "hard-scrabble," down-trodden" or "tired," it is Upstate. If, on the other hand, the place is "bucolic," "charming" or "up and coming," it is Downstate.
Don't believe me? Take a stroll through the archives.
12
Well stated, Winthrop.
Definitely summer resorts and/or pockets of liberalism, think Cooperstown, Saratoga Springs, Hamilton and Ithaca, have a preponderance of downstaters summering or living there thus giving these "bucolic" towns a much more NYC mentality than an Upstate vibe. Upstate is just a pass through to get from here to there.
1
Hoo boy - this is easy. It's where the football rooting base shifts from Jets/Giants to the Bills. Roughly west of Binghamton.
1
Upstate are those places in New York where people do not know what city you are talking about when you say "the city".
5
Funny how regional names change overtime. The Northwest (as in Northwest Ordinance) used to mean Ohio and the Ohio River Valley.
Possibly the ferry slip at North Ferry, Shelter Island.
Greenport is most certainly upstate.
@mark lester: There is another Greenport, upstate. It's the town literally and figuratively next to Hudson, NY, the darling of city folk!
1
If you're driving north on the Taconic Parkway, the Salt Point Turnpike seems to gently call out "welcome, you can breathe a bit deeper and easier up here". The road widens up in its view and a more pastoral setting lies in front of you...just enough to keep you looking long enough to not notice the state troopers hidden in bushes.
1
"Where else but downstate would a New Yorker be looking at sunny skies and a toasty high near 60 at the end of November?
We’re confused, but not complaining."
There's nothing confusing about it, it's called global warming and you should be complaining as our government is refusing to acknowledge this problem which will ultimately result in end of life as we know it. The column in the Times (and many TV weather personalities) repeatedly adopt this dumbfounded "aren't we lucky" attitude when the weather is unseasonably warm, as though completely ignorant of the cause. Am I the only one who finds this disturbing?
Upstate is a matter of perspective. If you live in the City, Upstate is either everything north of the Bronx or everything north of Westchester. If you live in the Hudson Valley, you and your town are Upstate but everyone south of you isn't (unless you're in Poughkeepsie and want to cling to the idea that you live in the metro region because you can take an hour and forty minute train ride without transferring to get to Manhattan). If you live north of the Hudson Valley, you're upstate, but the valley isn't, unless of course you're in Western New York in which case you're in Western New York and irritated to no end that people lump you in with Upstate instead of talking about you like the "forgotten 51st state" that you are.
Wonder how many states have the same quandary. I know in California, the divide between Northern and Southern California can vary by hundreds of miles depending on whom you ask. Nationally, there’s also debate on the dividing line between North and South.
Based on some interpretations here, it appears that the Downstate Correctional Facility in Fishkill, NY may actually sit in Upstate NY. Maybe it should be renamed.
3
If you think "Upstate New York"' is hard to define, try "Southern California". I was born and raised just southwest of Buffalo, and we knew we were in Upstate New York. Later I lived in several places in CA. "Southern California" is almost always a pejorative term. And usually starts a little bit south of where the speaker lives. E.g. when i lived in Santa Barbara, Southern California started around Ventura. When I lived in Silicon Valley, it started just below Monterey. Friends in San Francisco always said it starts in San Jose.
If your friends find out that you own a gun and they still talk to you, you're upstate. I suppose you could say it's a state of mind more than a location.
8
Upstate New York Geography as defined by a third-generation Brooklynite:
New York City is divided into 5 boros, all of which are wonderful places in which to live.
Geographically, below New York City is Long Island, (not the top part that contains Brooklyn and Queens, but the rest of it). Long Island is where you move to when you discover you love the Long Island Railroad.
Above the Bronx is Upstate New York. This is an amorphous area which is quite diverse. To the north is Albany (politicians), and above that snow and bears. To the west is more snow and very pretty Finger Lakes. And bears. To the east is where you drive through to get to Boston. The east also has snow and bears.
I hope this solves the Quest. You're very welcome.
P.S. I love this whole debate. It is so funny.
2
I grew up in Rockland County. In the fifties and sixties. That's no longer "upstate". I agree with the comment suggesting that now - once one has passed the Suffern interchanges (Exit 15) going north on 87 - one is at least beginning to be "upstate". At least on the west side of the Hudson. On the east side of the Hudson? I don't know. Isn't that Massachusetts or something?
Upstate is any county not served by commuter rail to NYC, so.. anything beyond Orange and Dutchess.
Growing up in Brooklyn I always thought of 'upstate' as Westchester and beyond. Though now living on Florida's west coast i tell Georgian's that visit that down here they are Yankees!
I grew up in the Finger Lakes. We were only "upstate" to those from the NYC area. Best definition: if you talk with the Flat A accent, you're upstate.
2
Who cares where Upstate begins? Native Northern New York State folk are more concerned with where Upstate ends - the Erie Canal region. Beyond that it is Northern New York - Lake Ontario to Vermont, the Adirondacks, the St. Lawrence River - nothing to do with "Upstate" suburbia.
1
Upstate begins where the only way for a person to travel conveniently is by automobile. I know that some readers might say that the public transportation available downstate is not of the highest quality, but it’s certainly better than no public transportation at all.
4
Growing up in the New York City area, we actually had three designations: New York City, New York State, and Upstate New York.
New York City included the five boroughs and Long Island.
New York State included Westchester up to, but not including Albany, as well as west to the Canadian border.
Upstate New York included Albany and north.
1
I nominate Hwy 90. Because why not. It divides the state in to two clean halves.
Hwy 90, aka The Thruway.
1
Here are my regions. The City, Long Island, the Hudson Valley (from Yonkers to Albany) and the Adirondacks. The latter two are "upstate". The rest of the State from Albany west is part of the US Midwest.
1
Personally, I consider Upstate New York to be the areas that have black bears. South of the "bear line" is downstate. However, one could also apply the "rattle snake line" in which case a small part of northern Westchester and Rockland counties would fall into the Upstate" category.
New York State has weighted in on this topic in that it has named a Correctional Facilty in Fishkill Township Down State C.F. In lies just North of Interstate 84.
1
I have always considered anyplace north of Weschester county upstate but an equally accurate barometer is the need to ask a fast food restaurant to hold the mustard on your burger.
1
While the location of Upstate may be debated, it also has a second meaning: "in a northward from the city (meaning NYC, obviously)." This may cause part of the confusion over the precision of any specific location that's included: it may be a place, but it's also a destination, and thus a state of mind. As a corollary, note that one goes UP to Westchester (hence, yes, it's in a sense "Upstate," at least directionally) - but OUT to Long Island and OVER to Jersey. Perhaps we can at least get agreement on these directional standards?
4
Having grown up in Rochester, I thought we were upstate because the Sunday magazine section said we were. When I moved to the city, I was once asked, after mentioning that I was from upstate, if I knew a particular person. Turned out she lived in a small village in the Catskills. I remain ever baffled that "upstate" was seen to be a tiny, mythic place where everyone knows one another.
9
Growing up on Long Island, moving to Manhattan and now, 45 years later, living in North Carolina, I still think of upstate as a mythical area just north of Westchester. From the eastern foothills of the Catskills to Buffalo and Canada, this sparsely populated rolling forest and farmland is a childhood dream I still maintain. It's all Washington Irvings' Sleepy Hollow, just more upstate.
The comments on this topic are a wonderful relief from anything political.
8
You should ask upstate. I’d say wherever the outer limit of exurbia is today.
2
This deserves to be formally settled. I nominate day-trip regions N of White Plains. Catskills, Albany, Saratoga. Not Western NY not Adirondacks.
2
Ha! When I lived in NYC, everything north of the Bronx was considered upstate. Then I lived in Buffalo, which is not upstate, but Western New York. In my own mind, I’d consider upstate to be Albany and points north.
1
The upstate starts where the local TV news doesn’t originate from the City.
9
It's easy to see on any map, and has historical cartographic precident: Draw a line from the major East-West New York/Pennsylvania border straight through to the East-West Massachusetts/Connecticut border.
South of this line is 'Downstate'. North of this line is 'Upstate'.
3
For the true flavor of Upstate one should read the two novels from Richard Russo: Nobody's Fool and Everybody's Fool. The real Upstate NY.
3
As a longtime contributor to the Comments of the NYT, I feel vindicated. I am now sure Columbia county is , indeed, Upstate. Just as sure as I know Hudson, NY is "Hipsterville on the Hudson"!
4
I pretty much consider whatever is north of the Catskill Mountains to be upstate NY. Everything below it, I consider it to be downstate NY. Just paying taxes to the NYC MTA from where I live makes me feel part of downstate NY. Also, many of the TV and radio channels I get happen to NYC affiliated as well, so I can't consider myself living in upstate NY for that. As for congestion pricing, I don't see why those obsessed with it can't seem to let it die already especially when most oppose it each time it gets mentioned. Many believe that it's not just a regressive tax, but also a punishment to those who little to no viable alternatives due to where they are living. Others don't see it as helping the MTA right now considering how they mishandling existing funds right now hence congestion pricing won't make any difference. Overall, it's just the anti-car fanatics who want it, and not anyone else.
Former longtime resident of Chenango County, here...
I was always amused by people who, by the time they'd gotten to the Bear Mountain traffic roundabout on the Palisades Parkway, seemed to think they were halfway to the North Pole...
There is actually a lot of civilization upstate, along with a lot of problems. Despite both, the region seems to get remarkably little coverage in the NYT --
8
Anywhere north of The Bronx!
1
Westchester. But- then again there seems to be upstate New York - anything above Riverdale or Bronxville and there is Upstate New York (note the upper case) that begins above Westchester.
North of Westchester.
I would also define Upstate as anywhere a NYCer's experiences, shoes, clothing, (and opinions) are useless.
5
Upstate? It definitely is everything north of Westchester — though I have heard the argument it could go as far as the MetroNorth's terminal in Poughkeepsie.
1
Grew up in Rochester. It used to be that "upstate" was anyplace north of NY-Pennsylvania's "horizontal"/northern border, including anything that would be north of it if the border were to be extended to the east. And "Western NY" didn't exist until recently (sorry, Buffalo). I resist and resent that term, even though some now apply it to Rochester, too.
1
I'm from Buffalo and for all my 50 years it's been referred to as part of WNY. Not sure where you're getting the idea that WNY is a new term, unless it's just new to you.
1
The 10 District Map cited by Mr Azzopardi needs to be emended to carve out the Catskills as it has a clear and political, cultural, economic and geographic identity.
have lived and paid taxes in WNY (East Aurora), Downstate (Brooklyn), Manhattan (THE CITY), Poughkeepsie ((Mid Hudson), Syracuse (CNY), Binghamton and Alfred (Southern Tier), Delhi( western Catskills to me, Hudson Valley --I guess to Azzopardi)) and born in Newburgh (Hudson Valley).
IMO the distinction between Upstate and Downstate is and always been a term of art (colloquial) So for me lets make it 11 District areas for political purposes not ten and two vaguely defined areas- Upstate and Downstate for colloquial distinction.
In my youth most people I knew included NYC -- 5 boroughs or counties, Long Island 2 counties and the counties , Putnam, Westchester and in the Downstate realm mainly on the basis of political and transportation issues. The rest of the state was Upstate. Nowadays , Downstate has been enlarged because of transportation issues relating to commuting into NYC- mainly Manhattan so thcat parts of the Mid Hudson Valley are now considered in Downstate. So for practical colloquial purposes every geographic area within a 90 minute or so commute to NYC or LongIsland is Downstate.
But what do I know as the French say Chacun au sont gout.
1
No real boundaries but if you commute every day into Manhattan, you live in the suburbs. West of the Hudson and somewhere north of Peach Lake.
1
I think this definition works, with slight changes:
If you commute into the NYC area from anywhere north or west of the city, you live in the Metro NY area. Any where else north or west above that point is Upstate. I disagree with using the economic regions to carve out Rochester (also used to live there) or Buffalo. The homier social dynamics, the transition from Rust Belt industries to reliance on eds and meds for economic growth, provide common ground between most of the "Upstate" cities.
1
Was once in a diner outside Plattsburgh and overheard this conversation: "I was speaking to my friend Judy from Binghamton the other day. She said she lives upstate. That's not upstate. We're upstate." It's all a matter of perspective.
2
Upstate is any small town north and west of Albany packed with bigots, racists, and thugs masquerading as law enforcement officers. They would all love to have a "Don't Tread on Me" license plate like the skinheads who live in Virginia.
More stereotypes...
Because, of course, downstate has no issues with abusive law enforcement??
I grew up north of Albany, but have lived in NYC for more than 20 years. Upstate starts north of Westchester—no doubt about it. If you can reasonably commute to NYC to work, you are not living in Upstate New York. To clarify for native NYers, I describe anything north of Westchester as “Way Upstate.” Once you get past Westchester, you know you’re Upstate by the flat “A” accents, the presence of Subarus and flannel shirts. Also, if you see maples syrup and cider donuts for sale all over the place, you know you’re officially Upstate.
2
Whoa what’s with all this “upstate” stuff? Per our president it’s clearly “upper” NY!
At the "Welcome to Sullivan County" sign on rte 17 West.
1
I grew up in Orange County on the New Jersey border and it was definitely upstate when I was young. Things may have changed a lot since I left in 1980 but when I grew up in the '50's-'60's Orange County was mostly dairy farms, orchards, black dirt farming and a summer getaway for city dwellers. In those days there was a sharp distinction between NYC and anywhere north being "upstate".
I don't know about "upstate," but our family will always remember a comment a taxi driver made to us in San Juan, Puerto Rico when we told him we lived in Northern New York (i.e., north of the Adirondacks). He quickly asked, "Oh, Nyack?"
3
What "upstate" means depends upon where you live. In general usage in N.Y.C. & on L.I., it refers to everything north of Westchester Co. In the rest of N.Y.S., "upstate" refers to the area north of Albany; "Western N.Y.S." is the area west of Rochester, and everything in the middle is "Central N.Y.S.", with some allowances for the aptly named "Southern Tier".
1
My upstate definition has always been: If you live somewhere that is not served by the MTA, then you live in upstate New York.
2
Downstate is where people see NYC as an aspiration, and talk about it a lot; upstate is where they feel it's weird and alien, and don't really think much about it. I lived in upstate (Albany, Syracuse, Rome, Ithaca) for 20 years or so, and people seemed to only occasionally think of NYC, and always in terms of "oh, that place!", like it was a haunted nursing home or something.
Long Island definitely takes the cake as the weirdest part of New York State. I've heard so many people from Brooklyn and Queens actually deny that their counties are physically on Long Island, despite what the map shows, because the concept is terrifying.
5
The Bronx, where New England begins.
1
I lived in the Syracuse area for 7 years—upstate is where it snows every day from Halloween until Mother’s Day. It is beautiful, though.
5
Albany is the dividing line. North of Albany is upstate; south of Albany is downstate. To the west lies Central and Western New York. East of the Hudson is Eastern New York. Perhaps someone from Western New York can tell us where the dividing line is between Central and Western?
The confusion lies in the conflation of direction and region. If you are going from Albany to Plattsburgh, you are going upstate. If you are going from Duchess to Columbia, you are still going upstate, the way walking from 14th St. to 59th St. is going (in the direction) uptown. If you are in Plattsburgh and going to Saratoga Springs, you are going (in the direction) downstate.
This is different from saying, "I'm going to Upstate New York next week." Then you are referring to the region called Upstate.
Technically, if you are in the city and going to Westchester, you are going (in the direction) upstate.
Hope that clears it up for all you transplants from Minnesota!
3
Easy. Upstate is anywhere north and west of where you live.
2
*casts a NNW glance into Lake Ontario*
If I dressed really warmly, I could walk to Canada from my house (At 80, I'd need maybe a couple of hours.)
If you can't do the same, you're not Upstate.
1
I haven't resided in New York for over 30 years. Things have changed, as have such artificial boundaries as Upstate v. Downstate. I grew up in Northern NY, in the 1000 Islands area. I rarely heard the term "upstate" much at all, until I went to a SUNY college near Rochester. Close to 40% of the student body hailed from NYC Metro/Long Island. Some of them said Upstate was everywhere in NY north of Suffern. That seemed okay with me.
2
Maybe upstate is where you can't commute daily to New York City. People have been pushing that boundary farther north decades.
Another Big Question: do we capitalize "upstate"? I live upstate, and I don't like to see it capitalized. It makes me feel like an Other. I'm also a little amused when I see it capitalized -- I think people who capitalize it don't understand New York State.
1
Years agoI lived in Pelham and visited friends in Park Slope often, via the bus and subway. Of course I lived "upstate" to them despite the fact that I lived less than ten miles from the Bronx. I remember being asked if there were cows where I lived.
1
Upstate? Where you are more likely to see a bear than a bus!
6
Years ago there was a distinct line in Westchester between North and South, bounded by I 287. The trains of the Harlem Line switched to diesel at North White Plains. The suburban tract homes were completely absent North of a line drawn from Connecticut's southern most border to Ossining, plus Peekskill. I grew up in Southern Westchester. My Bronx friends said I lived upstate. They had a point, at 138th street and the Deegan, the sign pointing North says "Upstate".
3
How anyone except arrogant Manhattanites thinks of Buffalo, which you have to drive hundreds of miles almost due west to get to, is “upstate” is beyond me. Western New York. Central New York. See how easy that is?
2
One of my best college friends was from Buffalo. I would tell her that she lived in the Midwest! And I grew up in Putnam Country, which we called upstate.
With your undersanding of geography you will not able to find New York. Fortunately.
2
And with your understanding of grammar no one knows what the heck you are talking about.
I grew up in Western NY. I used to draw a line from Albany to Binghamton. If you were SouthEast of that line, you were downstate.
2
When I was in the Army and asked where I was from I would say the pretty parts of NY, meaning the Adirondacks, where we have trees and nice people. because more than a few people ALWAYS assumed that NY meant NYC! Then they would be shocked when I said I can only count 4 times in my lifetime that I've been to NYC. Give me farm life anytime!!
For risk of sounding like a snide New Yorker and insisting that 'Upstate' is anything north of the 5 boroughs -- I'll say it starts once you go beyond the reaches of area code 914, where the names of the counties start to sound like foreign countries.
4
914 includes part of the Catskills so it's not a good criteria. BTW native American names such as Delaware and Otsego sound more foreign than a Dutch name such as Bronx? Boy are you myopic.
5
Actually, 914 changed to 845 about 20 years ago!
Pretty sure Westchester got to keep their 914 numbers, but Dutchess and Ulster got lumped into 845. Not sure about Putnam or Rockland, but then, who is?
1
Upstate begins where people know that there is a N.Y. State Fair. Downstate begins where no one knows and no one cares.
19
Westchester is not upstate!
14
Any place outside of NYC and off Long Island.
4
Geographically: Draw the line where most adults don't commute to the city.
Behaviorally: When traveling, useful to say you are from Upstate, to distinguish from NYCers. People don't put up guard as much, don't anticipate stereotypical NYC behavior. (Essentially, I am a hick like you.)
Love from Binghamton...
8
Upstate begins north of Westchester county and ends around Albany. New York's truly beautiful regions, the North land and Western N.Y. start there. But we often call it down state and sort of think of the Albany to Westchester run down 87 as New York's Jersey Turnpike.
3
Upstate New York should be changed to Downstate New York and then direct your attention to this smaller, more easily imagined sector. What if California had an Upstate California or Rhode Island? It makes no sense to define the major part of a state with a nebulous descriptor.
2
There is a Northern California and Southern California distinction. Where does that line lie?
You mean like... northern California vs southern California?
Try defining "North Country": that one's even harder.
It's between the Great Lakes and the Adirondacks. More or less.
2
I have heard Manhattanites say that going to Westchester is upstate, which is a laugher. There are a few places in northern Westchester that can mimic upstate, but still ...no way!
6
Upstate begins at the point when you realize you’ve left the angst behind.
9
Anything north or west of exit 16.
3
Haha! I live north and west of Exit 16, and consider it as downstate as you can possibly get without living in NYC (where I grew up).
There's NYC and then the rest of the world, right?
I grew up near Syracuse and the Finger Lakes region is considered Central NY. Anything south of the Elmira, Binghamton, Poughkeepsie line is downstate (including you, NYC). Upstate is Watertown, Lake Placid, Plattsburgh.
Rochester is Western NY, Albany is Eastern.
Not so hard, right?
18
Amen, sister! I grew up outside Buffalo, drives me batty to have the western edge of the state referred to as upstate, as if anyone outside NYC is part of a great undifferentiated unwashed mass.
2
Up here in the North Country, Lake Placid is south of Upstate.
1
Sorry Anne, but you're sounding a bit defensive there with that "great undifferentiated unwashed mass" line.
Lighten up....Most of us don't think too much of New Jersey, either.
3
Upstate is where you lose WFUV's signal at 90.7 FM.
25
And thanks to the new tower that is a lot further north (and east) than it used to be.
Go FUV!
7
Staten Island must be upstate then.
2
And I know exactly where on the Taconic Parkway that happens (Miller Road).
1
“But the line has blurred over time.
Tune of “Movin’ On Up (to the East Side)”
[from a die-hard city person's point of view]
I’m driving on up, up to Upstate
To my grandparents’ guest house with a lawn
Yes, driving on up, up to Upstate
Not clear where the "Upstate" line is drawn
Past the grit of the city
Past the trucks and the honks
Landscape gets kind of pretty
Once I drive past the Bronx
Now I’m up where it’s quiet
Whatever the dividing line
For a quick break, I’m glad to try it
But I know where I feel fine
Now I’m driving on back, back from Upstate
To that tiny apartment near the 3.
Driving on back, back from Upstate
Upstate’s for someone else, not for me!
26
Some city people consider Westchester upstate and Westchester residents consider Bear Mountain upstate, while vacationers from Long Island consider the old four star factory off the Thruway the upstate line while still others think its Interstate 84 that is the line but the people who live in that area think its somewhere north of them as do Albany people and Buffalonians say no we are western New York and actually part of the Midwest, but really upstate is just a state of mind.
6
You’re not upstate until you can consider going south to Albany to escape the winter cold. I grew up North of Lake Placid.. so i know what I’m talking about.
9
Anything north of the northern border of the Archdiocese of New York (north of Dutchess, Ulster and Sullivan counties) is the only true Upstate New York
1
Upstate only exists from the perspective of New York City. The rest of the state considers itself Central New York, Western New York, etc.
27
As a former "Downstater" and current Upstate mom, I can tell you a lot of people see a clear distinction between Upstate and Downstate, and up here we identify as both Upstate citizens and residents of our own regions.
You're trying to define "upstate"? You're joking, right?
The term "upstate" has always varied by the person saying it and often the location he or she was saying it from. It's all a matter of perspective.
I mean, what's "uptown"? Everyone defines that word differently as well.
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Uptown is Manhattan north of 59th street. Everyone knows that.
Uptown? North of 72nd St. Let the arguments commence.
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upstate: anyplace they vote republican and have no jobs.
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Bingo!!! That's the winner.
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Except for Tompkins County - the isle of blue in a sea of red.
Yikes!!!! ----Spot on.
Anything north of the borthern
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I go by the pizza. When the pizza is doughy with sweet sauce, you’re upstate.
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So the delectable L&B Spumoni Gardens has transformed Bensonhurst into upstate New York? Seems like a questionable criterion.
I grew up in Albany, DEFINITELY upstate. I was taught that upstate was anything north of Yonkers, because that's as far north as Nathan's got in those days...
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This is funny as can be. Nathan's is now in the Thruway rest stops, isn't it? But I see the point. I am beginning to think that Upstate starts when you can see cows grazing. So maybe that is where Metro North ends, actually.
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Somewhere "upstate" you will find yourself closer to Cleveland than NYC. Maybe that's where upstate starts?
If you’re closer to Cleveland, you’re in Western New York, not upstate. Good Golly!
Upstate starts at the Tappan Zee Bridge. From there to the Canadian border one feels a sense of spaciousness which is not possible downstate.
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Rockland, Newburgh, Middletown are not exactly bastions of ‘spaciousness!’
Having lived in NYC, the Hudson Valley, Otsego County And now Central NY, here’s your answer: west of Orange and Ulster counties and north of Ulster and Dutchess counties. That’s upstate.
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Poughkeepsie is DEFINITELY upstate. To include it in "not upstate" is ridiculous. I vote for Yonkers and above.
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The folks who live here in Upstate ask, "Where's Poughkeepsie?" That is, the folks who can manage to pronounce it.
Folks in Onondaga, Schenectady or Cattaraugus County struggling with Poughkeepsie are throwing stones from glass houses.
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Once upon a time; The Bronx as part of the continent could have been considered "Upstate"but today I agree anything North and West of The Cross Westchester Expressway may be considered
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I made up this joke almost 20 yrs ago while I was at college in Long Island and the conversation turned to "where are you from?"
What are the 7 major geographical areas of NYS? Finger Lakes? Adirondack Mrs? Catskill Mrs? Mohawk Vally? Hudson Valley?
Nope! The 5 boroughs, Long Island and Upstate!
Thank you for the article. I hope my joke has now found a better audience then the luditiets who just rolled their eyes at it.
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College "in" Long Island? Ouch! That's another locational sensitivity. Any native Long Islander knows that you went to college "on" Long Island, not in it.
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Is this a division? I've always said "in Long Island." Brooklyn is technically ON Long Island, but is certainly not IN Long Island. Same for Queens.
Geographically, everything north of Westchester. Culturally and politically, the same except for a few wannabe voting districts (and ad markets) in the major upstate cities and most of Ithaca.
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“Upstate” is where they think bagels come in packages.
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With the exception of the Catskills.
No, in upstate, bagels come from the bins at Wegmans.
(Recognizing that the Utica/Albany area hasn't caught up yet.)
I lived in Old Chatham, and had no doubt that was upstate. But back now in Philadelphia, I have found that every New Yorker I meet claims to be “upstate” unless they live in Westchester county. Honestly, it seems to include everything from Rochester to Buffalo to Watertown.
I grew up in a part of central New York near the Pennsylvania border – the people who live there call it “the southern tier.” I wish everyone understood how many geographies there are in New York State! When people ask me where I am from… I say “upstate New York.“ I do not believe this. It is a generalization for their sake, I consider it wrong, but it is the only thing that makes sense to anyone from Albany-ish south. Ignoring my native geography for a moment… I think upstate begins above exit 23 (Catskill) on the thruway. There is a change of accent, speed, and style that is evident there.
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Having grown up in Buffalo, it was odd to me when I moved to New York City and learned that anything north of NYC was "upstate". We always considered Buffalo part of "western NY" which I think is a less NYC centric way of looking at the great state of New York.
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I grew up in Ithaca, was attending college in another state and said I was from upstate New York. Someone from Lake Placid snippily told me that Ithaca was not upstate.
We moved from Long Island to Columbia County four years ago. Now whenever we return home after being downstate, it is when we leave I-84 and get on the Taconic State Parkway, that we feel we ate Upstate again.
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Upstate begins when I'm driving north out of the city and I notice that I've started to relax.
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"Upstate" is defined by more than geography. It's also attitude and perspective. I grew up in Elmira, "the southern tier" of New York, and now live in Manhattan. My parents were transplanted city dwellers, who were attracted to the wide open spaces, endless fields, farms (yes, cows and chickens) and a simpler, less frenetic way of life. But we always had access to the energy of the city; in the days of our childhood it was a mere 71/2 hour drive on two-lane route 17 ( now only 4 hours with modern highways!). You could make it in a weekend. Happy to have experienced the Finger Lakes, Mark Twain's study, the annual Chemung County Fair, and many other fine things that truly define upstate New York. Makes me a more grounded city dweller. Westchester always seemed downstate to us!
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First golf course? Leaving NYC on the Henry Hudson Pkwy when you hit Van Cortlandt Park just physically feels like Upstate. When you cross I 84 on the Thruway near Newburgh, there it's no doubt. All of the high school sports state championships include everything above the Bronx.
I grew up in the Syracuse area, which we considered "central New York." When I went to grad school in Binghamton, the first time I heard Binghamton described as "upstate" I was surprised, since it's about 10 miles from the Pennsylvania border. But in NYC-centric world anything north of the last subway stop is "upstate."
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The problem I have with denizens of the 5 boroughs referring to anything north of Westchester as 'Upstate' is that it totally lumps a very very diverse state into one big blob of bucolia and bumpkins.
As a North Country (that's anything from the Thruway north to the Canadian border, excluding Saratoga) guy now living in NJ, I would love to do away with the term altogether and follow the guy from Team Cuomo who advises to get to know your state region by region.
NNY is not Albany is not the Finger Lakes is not the Catskills. Manhattan is not Staten Island is not The Bronx etc.
I give big props to Cuomo for understanding this and it serves him and 'upstate' very well in his present job.
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Definitely at the end of Westchester County. Brewster is upstate but still served by Metro North. Pelham is not upstate. But also servce by Metro North. You can't use Metro North as the definition of upstate. Westchester County, although anything north and west of 287, I consider to be upstate.
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I’ve always considered anything north of the Bronx to be upstate. However, in defining upstate, first we need to define suburbia. In that
case, upstate would start where
suburbia ends.
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That's what I would say, Cara. Anything that is beyond the suburbs is upstate. Rockland County used to be upstate, but now it's suburbia. But Putnam and Orange and Dutchess Counties? Upstate. However, I have a friend who lives in Manhattan and has recently retired from teaching in Westchester. He considers taking his passport with him every time he travels north of White Plains. In fact, I once heard him refer to White Plains as "upstate."
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I went to grad school in Binghamton and called it "over state" for a while, since it's not really that far up. It never caught on. I now say I went to grad school upstate, as I agree that anything north, or west-ish of where Metro North goes is upstate.
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