397 "so far this year". Gail, you make that sound like so many, but its the end of November, we're almost at the end of the year... its not like they happen every day, on average. Except that they do, on average. The Senate like the whole "on average" thing when they're discussing "middle class tax cuts", which all us "average" people are eagerly awaiting, but on this one they probably don't think about a run rate of more than one a day. Besides, the NRA has real political clout, unlike millions of "average" people, including gun owners, who don't mind a bit more restrictions on who, where, and when guns can infiltrate our lives. Not that the Senate is any more concerned with what ordinary Americans want when it comes to guns than they are when it comes to taxes. The legislation is all already bought and paid for, so quit trying to make sensible changes now Gail, its too late. Certainly it is, for the victims in those 397 (so far) incidents this year...
4
Time for all the civilized states ( that is, the Blue ones) to secede. Let the Bamians shoot it out with the Missisipians!
5
For a group that romanticizes the past so much, conservatives seem to forget that one significant part of the "good old days" was that we didn't have a huge amount of gun proliferation. Funny how that one particular aspect of our past society gets glossed over.
We also didn't have anywhere near as many mass shootings - I wonder if those two things have anything to do with one another?
8
"Some people fix problems. Some just impose them on everybody else."
This really the crux of our growing problems and divide in this country and sums up our political situation well.
Remember when Reagan campaigned by asking "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?"
The question the Democrats should be asking is: Is our country better off today than it was four years ago?
There is a reason the Republicans keep everything at a personal-"you" level when they campaign.
One is that they are determined to weaken if not destroy government, especially government's role in helping society-- all those social programs (SS. Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps), rebuilding infrastructure, universal health care, public education and transportation. Why? Rich people don't like to pay taxes--no matter how much money they make--that improve society, the lives of others and their children.
Two is that by keeping it personal, the Republicans can get win elections on single issues (Karl Rove's idea decades ago) by motivating individuals to go to the polls and vote Republican--not because Republicans will improve society and make it safer and healthier for everyone--but on the basis of their pet single issue, such as abortion, gun control, racism, xenophobia, making the US a Christian state, etc.
Where we live, guns are a huge issue, and many a Utahan goes to the polls primarily because they believe the Democrats want to take away their guns. All else matters little.
9
Under the sparkling, impressive, 15 foot Christmas tree at the King family home: 3 Glock pistols with armor piercing ammo, 5 semi-automatic rifles with bump stocks and 100 shell magazines, 4 complete camouflage outfits with matching bullet-proof vests, 2000 rounds of ammunition, an assortment of 12 inch long Bowie knives, and 6 weapon silencers(a courtesy to sitting U.S. Representatives).
Oh by the way, in their heirloom crèche also beneath the tree Joseph, Mary, baby Jesus, the three Wise Men, and the lofted Angels are all outfitted in cute, N.R.A. approved, "battle-ready" Special Forces outfits.
And now it's time for some harmonious, uplifting, caroling! "Silent Night, Holy Night...".
8
“Representative Steven King of Iowa claimed a proposal to tighten a background check loophole on gun show sales would ruin “Christmas at the Kings’.”
What?! This guy is as mentally unbalanced as Trump is. I grew up looking forward to Christmas as a time to spend with friends and family celebrating the birth of Christ. This maniac looks forward to a Christmas where he could buy a gun at a gun show.
Disgusting and sacrilegious
20
And no talk of background checks? Is it any wonder that we don't feel safe? Mikeoshea has a great idea. Let's at least make the owners by insurance.
4
They want guns everywhere: schools, churches, college campuses...but you know where you’re not allowed to carry? Open or otherwise? Congress.
Could it be that our representatives (and let’s be clear about this: Republican representatives) wouldn’t feel safe with guns around them? Nooo. Can’t be. They’ll always be a good guy with a gun to protect them...why should they worry?
29
If we can't even retreat to sane states then where is there left to live in this country? If you want your fellow citizens in Missouri to carry concealed weapons then stay in Missouri. Stay in Texas. Stay in Oklahoma. Enjoy! If you don't like my state's gun safety laws then don't come here. You don't get to impose your insanity on the citizens of other states. Can you imagine mega populated cities like NYC or LA allowing every untrained tom dick and sally to carry a gun? Madness I tell you. Stay in your own state and walk around with your gun over there. I don't want you here, that's why I pay the higher price to live here. And I want my sane state to vastly increase the penalties for anyone who brings a gun to my state from your state.
20
We (Canadians) dont have the cultural need for guns.. At all.. You can get one if you want here - tho not at Walmart - I don't think.. Thats it tho - we don't think about them!, and we don't want them.. And guess what? We dont get killed by guns here.. What 170 murders by a gun the whole 2017 in the entire country?. Why cant the US see that? Or do they really think more guns means safer? Someone on FB recently wrote to me that everyone shud have lotsa guns so they can defend an invasion! Well whats the point of having a military then? Utter lunacy!
17
I was in my neighborhood Starbucks last Sunday morning. I'm sipping on my mocha choca fluff fluff and I notice a man getting out of his truck and ambling up to the entrance. Wearing a holstered Glock. Not law enforcement. Just some overweight dude that looked like he'd recently rolled out of bed. With a sidearm. Did I mention that? Who in the catfur needs a sidearm for a trip to the coffee shop on a Sunday morning? What's next? A semi automatic for a visit to the local NICU? Really, people? There's some sort of national folie a deux that seems to have taken hold of everyone. I give up.
19
I recently visited America to see my son and his family. While I was in the air, somewhere over Alaska, a gunman mowed down 50+ people watching music show. A week after I arrived, my son's street was quarantined by police searching for an armed gunman. That ended well, he wasn't really armed,just drunk and distressed. Still we accepted that he was.
We haven't had a gun massacre in Australia since 1996 when 35 people were gunned down at a tourist resort. Our PM immediately installed a ban on guns that exists today. We do not fear going to an open air concert, or to church, or to a Mall, or to walk the streets of out towns and cities because we are not armed. We do not have out down and/or neighbours children being accidentally shot. We don't miss having guns or feel less of a person for not being armed. Why do you?
22
Here in Hawaii, we have the lowest firearm age-adjusted death rate (according to the CDC) in the U.S. A factor in the low rate, certainly, is that no individual from a state with ridiculously lax or nonexistent guns laws can drive here with their gun(s), concealed or not.
When I'm on the mainland, my Hawaii driver's license allows me to drive a car in any other state -- but I'm still subject to the motor vehicle and roadway-related laws of those individuals states.
If I want to live by Missouri's laws, I'll move to Missouri. But the voters and/or legislators of Missouri should have zero say in the internal affairs of my state.
16
Im a transgender woman who carries a 380A pistol concealed in my pocket.
10 years ago I was a heroin addict. I've been sober for 5 years now, but back then I could have easily been put in jail for assault or battery because I got in a lot of fights.
Today, I am a different person. If I'd gotten a battery charge 10 years ago and been banned from a concealed carry permit for life, I would have just broken the law.
Im not going to expose myself to large men who could kill me. I'm going to defend myself if I get a chance, and I don't care if that makes me more likely to get shot. Id rather die in a shootout or be murdered than be raped by a man. If also rather have a chance to shoot a man who is attempting to assault me instead of just being assaulted and then hoping the police help me. The cops can't do anything right, and with their past actions I wouldn't be surprised if a cop assaulted me. If rather take my chances with the gun.
So if some stupid law would ban me for life from owning a gun, I would just choose to break that law. Breaking the law seems to be in style anyway with Democrats, who seem to love illegal immigrants who just happen to need to steal identities and SS numbers and drive without licenses or insurance.
There are 300 million guns in this nation. There is no way to take them back. I own 10 of those guns including an assault rifle, and I'll never give my guns back. I've also fired tens of thousands of bullets and NEVER once killed a living thing.
1
I'm not buying the tough talk. I think that like the vast majority of gun owners, you would almost certainly give up any illegal guns. In any case, the large number of guns is no reason for the adults in the room throw up our hands. The American people have done much more difficult work; the WW2 generation could attest to that. Yes, it will take time. All the more reason to start now. Laws in concert with a cultural shift, both of which are mutually reinforcing.
I've shot hunting rifles and shotguns. But the gun culture that exists now is out of step with real hunters and sportspeople. It needs to go. Owning an AR-15 because it is "fun" to shoot is not sufficient justification for ownership. I for one will continue to call out immature gun nuts and sleazy arms merchants every chance I get.
Let's all work toward making society safer for everyone. That includes higher entrance standards for police officers and better training. And fewer guns, tightly regulated. Fewer guns in civilian hands will in the long run also result in fewer shootings by police officers.
6
Gail zeroed in on Rep. Steve King, one of the worst people in DC. He represents the district where I was born and raised.
The only reason he was elected is that I and many others left, turning the state from blue to red. I feel guilty but not guilty enough to move back and vote against him. It's up to the Democratic party to find what Trump would call "winners."
4
we should get what we earned and deserve - a Vegas style shooting on a daily basis. I don't think we would learn anything from the experience I just like seeing people get what they vote for.
If you tell me "it's only 33% of the people" I will ask why the other 67% didn't stop this.
At least the charade we have all been involved in since the Kennedy coup de tat can be ended. We can all say with pride - America is dead and we killed it
1
Republicans, the party of states' rights... unless we're talking guns
7
The right to carry laws do present problems. It a serious issue. . If a person has a right to carry license in one state, they can never know what the law is in another state. That can lead to serious charges. If you own a car, it needs to be registered in the state you live. But you can still drive it through and within other states without being arrested.It isn't just carry guns laws It is transporting. Most state say at least if the gun is unloaded, and not reachable, you can have one in the car Not too long ago a combat veteran was going south. He decided to go through Washington DC and stop in at the military hospital to visit a wounded comrade. .For some reason he was stopped and the police asked if they could search his car. His unloaded gun was in the trunk. They arrested him and charged him with a felony. That's ridiculous. As far as felons being able to buy guns, Governor McAuliffe feels that felons should vote so the can feel part of society. Maybe he feels guns would help as well. How about people on the FBI watch list like Omar Mateen? How about mental illness like Virginia Tech and Colorado. All have advocates who say they shouldn't be treated differently. We won't find consensus if we go at these laws with a scorched earth approach. Twenty seven years ago, the first elected African American governor passed a gun law in Virginia. He didn't tear down the house but he remove one very important brick. Gun laws can pass.
1
Gail is not decrying water pistols.
CONCEALED CARRY TRAINING IS WATERED DOWN in RED STATES.
This is about differences in conceal and carry laws. Many states worked hard to come to agreement about this. They made deals on these very very recent laws. People will get good training and law enforcement agreed and lawmakers reluctantly voted in. A lot of thought. Well trained conceal carry can be a lot better than untrained open carry.
But...
Now, the NRA wants to take a advantage of the careful efforts made by others.
. ..if you took the mail order course instead of the all day serious one, you get to carry anywhere... Is that fair?
...and anyone can toss a modified semiautomatic in a trunk...how about a Democrat? With bad eyesight? A Californian even? With a PhD? Who took the postcard class? Who barely knows how to shoot? Who is mad at someone? Who can walk around anywhere there is not a sign.
It isn't a good idea.
3
Strict law-and-order legislators are also really big on gun rights. This seems contradictory. Guns make law enforcement more difficult and dangerous. Why would law-and-order legislators not support reasonable gun regulations? I think the reason is, a more peaceful, less well-armed populace would require less law enforcement. Follow the money.
2
You just have to remember that these people believed and believe in slavery and genocide, because that is the roots of america. They are unrepentant. In their hearts they understand the antipathy that they have created and they expect that some day some one is going to come for them.
1
We are out of control with the love of guns in this country. Seems to me to be an ADORATION FOR GUNS even more than love. And just where is it getting us?? Dead citizens all over our country who had the right to live longer than they did when gunned down. And Wisconsin's governor sure didn't use his head.
3
Okay 2nd amendment cheerleaders--you want more gun rights, well get ready for more regulations and regular service in the militia. Time for you to serve. The military needs more recruits.
4
I overheard a man today at my neighborhood diner, tell a waitress that if every woman carried a gun there'd be no sexual harassment. She agreed. And I don't have a clue how to even talk to these people. We speak different languages.
6
Guns are just used as the most feasible solution to Americans since they are so powerful and can really help people feel confident in themselves.
How do police responding to a mass shooting know who the good guy with a gun is ? If a dispute in bar heats up does the guy quickest on the draw win like the good old west days? Do all white folks get the right to shoot down any brown folks approaching them on the street, better safe than sorry especially if he is a christian. This would not be good for police officers who have to decide in seconds if the guy with a gun is a good guy or not white or christian or not , perhaps a white hat and a black hat would determine one's identity like in the westerns of John Wayne right wing macho hero. He won WW2 with a bottle of ketchup fitting the new Trump/Orwellian world of alternate facts or fantasy to be precise.
3
but law-abiding citizens wouldn't have guns in bars, right?
For everyone who worries about gun restrictions limiting their ability to recreationally enjoy guns:
It is in fact the opposite.
If common sense laws are not passed to limit who can own guns, what guns they can own, and when and where they can handle them, recreational gun use will eventually disappear. Most laws that have been proposed in response to senseless mass shootings involve things like increasing background checks, preventing guns from being carried in sensitive areas, and banning assault type weapons. None of these laws should affect the average, law-abiding American who wants to own a small gun for target practice or hunting. These Americans should embrace these laws because they have great potential to lower gun deaths, and lowered gun deaths are great for Americans who want to lawfully own weapons.
If no sensible change occurs, momentum will build up to eventually ban guns or take some similar drastic, sweeping action that broadly restricts gun ownership. I do not know when this point will be reached—especially since the senseless murder of children did not provoke it—but I don't think that pretending that a breaking point will never be reached will serve gun owners well. If you want lawful, recreational gun ownership to be protected, then support tightening gun laws.
My relatives in NC were offended when I said i feel safer in Europe with all the terrirists than I feel there with all the guns. They said their guns protect them and gun restrictions just protect criminals
5
You put gun restrictions, and people lose what they store their confidence and power in: guns.
This is strategic: blind us with craziness and harmful policy proposals all at once while ramming through tax cuts for the wealthy.
A corrupt take over is happening and we can't say we haven't been given fair warning.
6
If King remembers the Gabby Giffords shooting, during which several other people were killed, he should also vividly remember that it occurred in Arizona, an OPEN-CARRY state, where no gun-toting “good guy” stepped up to take down the gunman.
Personally I would yearn for the 19th-century good old days when an actual shootout could occur between members within the houses of Congress.
3
One of my grandfathers lived on a farm way out in the country and had a couple of guns. He had a double-barrel shot gun for hunting occasionally, and a pistol that I never saw until many years later. I assumed he had the pistol for protection since the nearest police station was about 20 miles away. In those days, a gun was just a gun - not a symbol of virility or independence, and not something to take out of the closet unless there was a real need. Today, some people need guns to feel important or to feel adequate to cope with the world and the thought of being unarmed frightens them. My grandfather would have been dismayed.
7
Per the latest FBI statistics, in 2012 there were exactly 259 instances of a civilian killing someone with a firearm in self-defense where the shooter was not charged with a crime. Considering that about one in three households in the US report having firearms, this is a pretty small number.
I'll leave my guns at home and take my chances. Let the police do the job that we pay them to do. They don't need my armed input to confuse the issue.
8
Per the latest FBI statistics, in 2012 there were exactly 259 instances of a civilian killing someone with a firearm in self-defense where the shooter was not charged with a crime. Considering that about one in three households in the US report having firearms, this is a pretty small number.
==========================
A common misconception.
You don't have to kill someone with a gun to defend yourself often all you have to do is show you are armed. According to the CDC, this happens hundreds of thousands of times a year:
The full statistics will never be reported because, unlike gun crimes, lawful use of a firearm is not mandatory reportable by law enforcement.
Federal law prohibits the CDC from collecting data regarding firearms.
1
Perhaps we should allow anyone to enter the halls of Congress with any weapon they choose or do away with any inspection of luggage for weapons at airports. From a GOP point of view it makes perfect sense to do away with any regulations on guns. After all it allows anyone who feels like it to express themselves any where for any reason. Who needs votes when guns can decide an outcome. In this Trumpian world I must say that this is tongue in cheek for Republicans might actually pass a bill to create the wild west in Washington.
9
This is like the Supreme Court Dredd Scott decision before the Civil War when states who outlawed slavery were required to capture and return "property" to slave states. Everyone can get guns but not abortions? Forcing religion (see Roy Moore) on others but not allowing marriage equality? Why are only 30% of American voters telling the rest of us what we can or can't do?
10
I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed that every time there is a mass shooting the Republicans are immediately hard at work to make the gun laws weaker and easier for every demented peckerhead to have as many guns as they want and take them anywhere they want. At the age of 72 it is hard for me to accept that the US government is the enemy of its own people and the majority of Americans are unwilling to do anything about it. The Democrats have become to weak to do anything. We need a strong Progressive Party with people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren leading the charge.
12
you mean Pocahontas?
1
Whenever there's a massive serial killing, the Repubs tell us that "now's not the time to talk about it" (other than thoughts and prayers, of course) but I never hear them tell the NRA to keep quiet for a reasonable amount of time. Guess they don't dare bite the hand that feeds them.
10
so, the logic is, if you come from a state that allows concealed carrying of firearms, you should be able to export that right with you when you cross into a state where this is prohibited or strictly enforced...
but if you go from Colorado to Oklahoma with a concealed joint or tube of Marijuana pain cream in your pocket, you will wind up in the hoosegow.
and this is not crazy, because?
15
Folks outside of my state, Wisconsin, might also be interested in a statistic that was recently released here relative to the recent removal of the minimum age for a hunting license: prior to the just-ended gun deer season, there were at least 10 hunting licenses issued to infants by the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources. Let that sink in for just a moment.
9
In all my years on this planet I've seen no threats to take guns away from gun owners. I have seen an increase in the number of guns people are buying, hoarding and using. I've seen an increase in the kinds of weapons that can take out more people more efficiently.
I've also seen the NRA own a great many in congress.
I've seen massacres and shootings to rob families of children, spouses and friends.
What I haven't seen are proposals and legislation that protects people from people with guns who are determined to use them against citizens because something in their lives isn't working.
I've seen every excuse in the universe for not addressing the problem while the rest of the world has remained more determined to protect citizens from gun violence.
Seen too much, worry too much. No longer laughing while we turn into the wild wild West of a country where paranoia and hatred reign.
How sad to bear witness to our dissolution over such childish pettiness.
The ultimate joke is Trump and congress. No one should be laughing about that.
14
Absolutely disgraceful. What happened to states' rights? Is that argument only voiced when states are doing what Republicans support?!
12
Yes you silly goose.
States rights are always in force when a Democrat controls the White House.
The GOP has different rules. Might want to re familiarize yourself with some of those states rights issues that came up,under Bush II
Perhaps on next Presidential Address to the Joint Session of Congress every congressional member should carry a loaded gun. "Well, isn't that precious"
6
This is where I continue to be disappointed by "pro-life" and proud of it, Christians.
There is a street corner near my house where there are frequently abortion protesters. I assume there's some clinic nearby.
There are also many gun shops that primarily sell handguns - a tool whose sole purpose is to kill PEOPLE. I never see pro-life people protesting there.
Why would a pro-life person actively and frequently protest a clinic that treats illnesses as well as perform abortions, yet NEVER seem to protest the sale or practice of perfecting our ability to kill other people with no other value in the community?
If your argument is that people purchase guns to defend themselves, I would counter that my county's only gun deaths are from within - spouses, children, parents, friends, and selves getting shot by these "defensive" weapons.
You're all getting played by the NRA and don't know it, and I'm an NRA-Hunter-Safety-course graduate who was once nearly shot in a house by a non-NRA safety course handgun owners' child. Don't buy into the fear!
18
We get their message loud and clear: God creates us to be cannon-fodder.
1
Excellent!
It's amazing -- or maybe these days, is isn't -- how these erstwhile "conservatives" in the NRA and guns movement are all too willing to facilitate federal interference with the legitimate police powers of the states --
How long will it be until we are told that laws against murder are infringements upon the rights of gun owners?
10
It is a sad thing to say, but it's growing increasingly difficult to sympathize with those victims of gun violence, who live in states, and who vote for representatives that support and vote with the NRA position of "a gun in every home." I'm sure some of those victims are or were for gun safety and regulation, but until they speak at the ballot box, I guess they carry some of the responsibility for enabling the deadly consequences.
6
People defend themselves with their own firearm at least as often as a homicide is committed with an assault rifle.
So, before asking others to give up their cherished myths, at least acknowledge your own.
That is why the debate is going no where.
3
Not true at all, this is propaganda from pro-gun researchers based on non-scientific phone interviews. The serious research trawling thru actual confirmed incidents instead of fake annecdotals confirms that gun owners have an elevated risk of self-harm owning a gun. They are 6 times as likely to be either victims or involved in shooting a member of their own household as a result of rage, impairment or confusion.
There is a reason why the country with the most gun ownership has the most gun violence. And its obvious to everyone else in the world.
6
It absolutely is true. Just because you don’t like the research’s results doesn’t mean that it’s false. Unless you think the National Academies’ yearly reports are bad science.
1
Very often, it seems as though that "defense" results in shooting one's family members or significant others (current or former), one's self, or, too often, both. Burglars and robbers? Not so much.
2
All 50 states have concealed carry laws. The statement, "The Republicans argued that people need to be able to carry guns — even in states where it’s against the law," is wrong. democrats carry also.
The alarmist tone of this editorial leaves out the times where people do use firearms in self defense. Not just the several written up in the "Armed Citizen" column in the NRA magazine monthly; compiled from newspapers around the US.
The reality is most people who draw their weapon in self defense never report the incident to the police. A few people have told me stories, the dead bad guy didn't even make the news.
Since I was a kid I've known several people who were murdered. Except for one where there was a witness, there were no arrests.
It is in my best interest to continue carrying. I've been the uncooperative attempted victim of a few felons over my lifetime. Although I've never fired a shot in self defense, if cornered I want that option.
2
I have read that something on the order of one percent of US gun owners will kill somebody over the span of their gun ownership years.
2
well said
"You have Missouri, where you can just buy a gun and put it in your pocket."
Miss collins wrote, showing her rank ignorance. The same is true for NH and VT (and some other states?). But reciprocity from other states does not apply to those guns/people. The gun owner would have to have a concealed carry permit from their own state for reciprocity to apply.
2
We are still fighting two wars because 3000 American were tragically killed on 9/11. However, more than a million and a half people have died by gunshot since record keeping started. That's a decent sized city. Gone. Millions of lives shattered and ruined. And the Republicans refuse to ever address the issue, because you know, freedom! It's incredibly difficult to witness an entire country going insane.
10
Exactly, and for the politicians to be worried about terrorists from outside the country is disingenuous. It's not freedom to worry about your safety when you go to a movie.
6
It doesn't depend on the year, it depends on the political party!
20
I hate these gun advocates who think we would all be safer if everyone had a gun rather than if no one had a gun. It seems impossible to teach people that guns are not going to protect them; guns are going to be their death. Fear is the enemy; fear of "the other," fear of government, fear of the mentally ill among us.
I truly believe the future is more and more people dying, and more and more people clinging to their belief that guns could have saved them. Why are we so very different from all other civilized nations in our belief in the right to kill and be killed? What psychological problems does our faith in guns reveal?
6
The most depressing part of this column was learning that Steve King AND Louie Gohmert are both on the influential House Judiciary Committee. The crazy statement that come out of their mouths make you question their sanity. As such they are the perfect embodiment of where the GOP would take us if only they could -- the bizarro world of Idiocracy.
8
as anticipated - gail always says it in a way no one can - bitingly ( and endlessly) humoristic. i actually loughted to tears.
but as all the other writers at the NYT ( and other, 1/2 way reasonable publications), and the ( thinking & reflecting) public have known all too well by now : we have the untanable situation where 2 certified meshugenes ( brooklynese yeddish for crazy men) are shooting their uncontrollable mouths at each other while their fingers are on the triggers.
NOT a good, or promising scenario by any measure.
can we find a ( political, constitutional ?) way to at least get rid of the one on our side ?
2
This really needs to stop. The second amendment has been hijacked long enough by gun advocates. Arming children, felons, and everyone else in this country is insane, not a righteous act. If Republicans would stop taking gun money from the NRA, maybe they would find a way to create sensible legislation with Democrats to regulate the militia they’ve created. WE DON’T WANT CONCEALED WEAPONRY!
7
you mean you don't. don't presume to speak for all.
1
I will "respect the judgment of the state whence they came" when there are IQ tests for voters and elected officials. Until then we are stuck with AL, whoever thought the WI craziness up, and the entirety of MT.
3
Can't be caring and carrying at the same time!
3
The next time you hear the claim that arming private citizens ("good guys with guns") will be a reasonable deterrent against "bad guys with guns," please point out that a trained NYPD policeman with five years experience, Officer Ryan Nash, fired NINE SHOTS at Sayfullo Saipov (the man who ran down people on the Manhattan bike path) and hit him only ONCE. And Saipov was shooting back with just a BB gun.
6
This is madness on the part of the GOP. But then, madness seems to be the only thing they are consistent about. After all, they gave an utterly unfit person the presidency and access to the nuclear codes. Allowing unfettered access to guns for the ordinary unfit citizen is just a logical extension of the madness, and small potatoes by comparison. God help us.
7
November 2018 can't come fast enough.
5
dems wont show- they prefer whining about bad outcomes
this is going to get vastly worse
This plan would work OK if it went with the strictest standards instead of the most lax. If all permitted people had to meet the highest standards (New York, Massachusetts, California), it would strengthen controls nationwide. This 'lowest common denominator' plan is just crackers, nuts, toys in the attic, lights are on but nobody's home, rowing with one oar, a quart low....
3
Dear Gail, Guns, guns,guns and then baseball...bottom of the ninth...one out, man on first..right hander against a left hander..the hitter can go up the middle..does the second baseman pack his gun on the left hip or right? At state border crossings..check your fruit and your guns and pick them up when you leave the state? Guns don't kill people, people do.....unless Tesla builds a shooterless gun. It is time to start thinking about real solutions that can work, rather worrying about who is packing.
1
If Steve King thinks that the season of the year when the slaughter of the Holy Innocents is most in own minds should be celebrated by selling more guns to anonymous crazy people and criminals, he's more of a fool than I had previously suspected.
2
I dont know if the United States can ever solve this cancer that eats away at America's heart and soul. I hope they can. As for now, soooooooooo glad Iive in Canada. We have are issues in this country but thankfully, guns are not one of them.
7
Trump has put a hold on his decision to allow the slaughtering of elephants in Africa (for which, of course, in his usual twisted state of mind, he demanded praise).
When it comes to elephants, the only slaughtering I pray for daily is at the voting booth, of the republican elephant, easily identified: Pinocchio noses, fat heads, brains trained in deception, deviousness and zero common sense; herds of them always to be found head first in the troughs set out by libertarian billionaires and merchants of death.
Is there a day that goes by when republicans are not thinking about, or introducing or passing some legislation/regulation to ensure life is just that much uglier and harder and more dangerous for American citizens?
7
dems wont show, they would rather whine.
this is not only going to get worse, you need to understand that this is over.
New word of the year to accompany “complicit”. Despise
4
Great piece, I'd only change one thing. The Democrats didn't lose every argument, they lost every vote. Big difference. They won every argument but insane troll logic prevailed anyway.
3
Is this a good time to mention my aolution to the problem? It's a simple compromise: men aren't allowed to have guns anymore, and women are required to carry them everywhere.
I figure six months up in the hills, living in a nice tent, and I can come back down to a sweeter, cleaner America.
3
The NRA did not allow guns into their convention hall last April when DJT was speaking. All guns had to be checked at the door. Oh the irony!
8
So much for state's rights
2
Wouldn't it be nice if we could wake up....and all the guns in private hands were gone (and gone too were trump, pence, ryan, mcconnell, gohmert, the "Christmas at the Kings" King", et al)
And wouldn't it be nice if we could wake up....and all men had the self esteem necessary to treat women with respect and as equals
And wouldn't it be nice if we could wake up ... w/o all the republicans in Congress lying in support of their efforts to tax the poor and feed their donors (and their president)
And wouldn't it be nice if we could WAKE UP!!! ....
And Wouldn't it be nicer still if we could wake up Woke (as I hear the 'kids' saying)
5
If you were visiting from a planet where sane people were in charge, you might think that our congressional majority wants people murdered in their classrooms and at church, at concerts and in their workplaces and just walking down the streets. My Republican Senator is one of the biggest pigs slopping at the NRA trough. But he is nowhere to be seen when children lose their Chip insurance or when my adult daughter who is battling Stage IV cancer will lose the ability to deduct her medical expenses. Of course he also considers himself a Christian and he's always seen in photos hiding just behind some bigger guy when Trump is around. We are supposed to believe he is a "moderate." I have no idea what that means anymore. As far as I can see, I only see right wing defenders of criminals and murderers on the Republican side. As the song goes "Some rob you with a six shooter; some with a fountain pen. Our congress votes for both.
6
moderate = foams at the mouth 1/2 the time
The only thing left is for our esteemed congresspeople to attach the repeal of Obamacare to gun legislation to assure the passage of the former.
Please tell us the source of the money behind the gun lobby
2
Serious question for all you folks who think it's safer if everyone everywhere will be armed all the time:
Why do you think your Republican legislators make laws to ban guns in statehouses, courthouses where they do business?
They don't want honest Americans carrying their guns into their workplace, do they? They don't want the stress of wondering if an angry, grudge holding citizen will start spraying bullets around the offices they work in.
So don't you find it odd that they'll happily put us all into those situations? Stadiums, theaters, concerts, churches, workplaces, the very streets we live in. We wonder everywhere we go; there is no sanctuary. Republican lawmakers will not put their personal bodies in danger! I guess the 'good guy with a gun' isn't welcome there...
In Reno, NV a few days ago, a man sprayed gunfire out of a high-rise into the mostly empty streets for a full 20 minutes before he was stopped. No one was killed cuz it was the middle of the night, but honestly, people!!! Now imagine....
...citizens being allowed to start shooting in the halls of Congress or on a White House tour, while we all just offer lawmakers our 'thoughts and prayers' and it happens week after week. Laws would change right now.
If guns don't kill people, why do our lawmakers protect themselves? Hmmmm. It's like they get kickbacks from the NRA without having to face the dangers. Does this seem like a 'well regulated militia' to anyone??
5
Every republican possible must be voted out of office in 2018. Register and vote.
3
Howabout we change its name to National Republican Army?
2
Well Gail... You blew it on this article like most leftists do when they discuss things without research. There is no credible evidence anywhere in the world that suggests that guns cause crime. Their are volumes of evidence that suggest the opposite.
You guys always discuss the ratio of "gun" violence v other developed nations and the US is so much higher. That may be true but a notion being true does not always belie the truth. Truth is that the overall(regardless of weapon choice) ratios of murder, rape and other violent crimes are not that different and are much lower in the US many times.
TRUTH is that there is no such thing and a "gun" crime. A gun has never done anything on its own. Guns are tools. People chose available tools but they commit the crimes with or with out guns.
TRUTH is that one in four people shot die and one in two stab victims die. Then there are explosives which kill many more than guns. Trucks make some pretty mean weapons as well.
Do your research and tell the truth not some deluded leftist dogma because the slant on this subject makes you seem uneducated and like a small minded partisan.
Yet the US has the highest gun homicide rate in the developed world. That is the truth. The US is the most dangerous developed nation, in terms of gun violence.
We hear stories of children accidentally killing themselves, siblings or their parents, yet it is just shrugged off as if it does not matter.
I know of several Australians who were shot dead in the US. Check out the Chris Lane story of a College baseball player who was killed while out jogging. There are so many sad stories of innocent people killed by guns, yet the NRA and the gun lobby, keep pushing the line that guns make America safe.
The last mass shooting in Australia was in 1996. When was the last mass shooting in the US?
2
I think that most of the people in California would be perfectly happy if those who feel unsafe without a gun just stay out of California. I stay out of Florida because anyone can carry a gun and shoot you if they feel threatened (i.e. Stand Your Ground).
2
time for the 3 western states to make their own way
Not to worry, these are just the death throes of a dying democracy and the leader of the free world. Putin is laughing.
2
This is what happens when you sell your soul.
3
In the United States you can become where ever your dreams take you. I introduce Representative Louie Gohmert, an actual voting member of congress. I know, it's unbelievable.
"At the head there was a clown, who said: gun them down." Sometimes I have the bad feeling this could be a reality pretty soon.
There goes the neighborhood
1
If carrying a gun, and even concealed carry, is such a great idea, why won't the NRA allow guns inside their annual convention?
Is it, just like with Congress, "Do as I say, not as I do?"
3
If stricter background checks would "ruin Christmas at the King's," is that a subtle admission that a member of Congress could not pass a standard background check? Or possibly one of his family members? Seems worth investigating to me - go get 'em, NYT!
On another note, I am so intensely tired of the GOP being enslaved by special interests. Yes, I know Dems have special interest issues too, but most of theirs aim to treat people as better people, rather than treat them as targets or chattel. Just saying...
5
the Story that "guns don't kill people, people kill people." is not correct, guns go off all the time being handled or sometimes on their own. Many times the "people" are children playing. Check the stats: Thieves look for homes with guns to invade -to get a gun illegally. Mostly deadly force is used within the family or between friends and relations.
Rare is the opportunity to stop a shooter by being in the right place at the right time to returning fire.
4
Guns are intrinsically offensive weapons force-multiplied by surprise.
It is oxymoronic to claim they are for self defense.
3
show me an instance where a gun went off "on its own".
1
Some mention Switzerland as one of the nations with very few murders (by any metric, less than a tenth our rate) and lots of guns. I spent time in Switzerland in the mid-1970's. Most homes had an automatic weapon (with the most common type being closer to a light machine gun than to an M-16). When reservists travelled to their unit (I saw a lot of them doing so one summer) they carried their weapon (and ammo) on the train. The few Swiss parks that I have been in all had within the mountain bunkers to fire from stocked with heavier weapons.
Why does this work for them? First, you don't get a gun until you have been trained much more rigorously than California requires, under a military discipline at the time more strict by far than obtained in the US Army. Convert our system to the training and discipline of the Swiss one and gun violence will go down. Second, Swiss culture is different from ours. VERY different as regards violence (they have very few murders attempted with knives as well). So in the USA if there are more guns there will be more violence, but in Switzerland this is not the case.
1
"Why does this work for them?"
Two words: BULLET CONTROL.
1
Every adult in Switzerland is a member of a defense team. they have predetermined posts to report to in case of alarm,
1
If our country's forefathers had any idea of the technology to come I cannot believe they would have wanted what we have ended up with. I say give citizens the right to bear arms as they were known to exist in 1776, and no more. How can we interpret this right to bear arms the same way when the arms are completely different? It makes absolutely zero sense.
5
As a gun owner and holder of a concealed carry permit, I see no good reason for a civilian to have a military type weapon such as an AR 15, Kalashnikov, etc. If an individual can't feel safe in one's home with a semi-automatic pistol that has a magazine capable of holding 15-17 rounds of 9mm ammunition, then we have definitely lost the right to believe we live in a republic/democracy in which one can feel reasonably safe. The repubs have lost the right to govern; the sane among us must resolve to turn them out of office--- the sooner the better.
2
An interesting experiment to consider. I thought of this after watching an open-carry man walking out of Walmart on Thanksgiving evening.
What if everyone who is for legislating gun control started open-carrying themselves? Only, you open carry an authentic, visible holster - and in the holster is an authentic-looking, but fake gun, preferably one of the toy guns that look ultrarealistic?
The thing is, that there is no law (at least that I know of, please correct me if I am wrong) against open carrying an authentic-looking toy gun in a real holster. I suppose that you could remove the orange end barrel on it, as long as there is no law against that either. You wouldn't even have to produce a carry permit if stopped by police, etc., because the gun is not real.
I know that this is a strange little experiment, but I wonder what the impact would be if more people were to do this, and what kind of impact it would have on the anti-gun control arguments?
1
I am not sure if we will shoot ourselves out of existence, or if we will become an authoritarian regime. I am not sure if we will pollute ourselves into oblivion or eliminate all regulations so that the banks can once again predate on unsuspecting customers and drag our economy into melt down. And, I am not sure if we will get to hate so many non-white men so that we put ourselves out of business as a beacon of opportunity. I DO know, though, that one of these threats will occur and our nation as we know it will not survive its 250th birthday in 2026.
2
Yes, the International Mafia Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/Radical christian Good Old Boys' Cabal wants their money's worth. They paid good money for the traitors in OUR U.S. governments at all levels to operate on their behalf. They represent the anti-christ god - money.
WE THE PEOPLE are the only ones who can stop them. We have learned that they get very fearful when confronted with angry voters on their home turf. So do the workers in their local offices. Please, Good People, organize marches on the local offices, as well as Washington D.C. offices, and put the fear of god into them. The real god.
2
"“I remember where I was the day I got the news that Gabby Giffords had been shot,” mused King."
Yes, where a Good Samaritan wrestled Jared Loughner to the ground, immendiately after which another Good Smaritan, armed, rushed up and nearly shot the first Good Samaritan.
18
You've heard it: "Guns don't kill people; people kill people". True, it's the trigger fingers of those people who KILL PEOPLE. AND NOW the NRA wants to let 10-year old CHILDREN have gun rights? GREAT SCOTT! Many of those children do not even know how to read, let alone that 2 plus 2 equals 4. Another CRISIS in the making.
6
10 year old children do have gun rights. It's written into the constitution. If a child was supervised and taught proper use of a firearm, why could they not use a firearm? I am not understanding your point. I believe you clearly look down on ten year old children.
There is a way to improve gun safety for 10 year olds and it is free. It's called the Eddie the Eagle program that teaches children what to do when they come across a firearm. It has been proven to reduce accidental gun related deaths in children and it's free, thanks to the NRA.
The Gunning of America:
I recall when we were young and poor. My spouse was a lowly college prof in 1970. He earned $8,000 a year. (He barely kept up with inflation by the time he retired, but that’s another story.)
We were poor. And I was doing diapers for my 1 year old - at a laundromat in rural PA.
When another woman asked me: “Do you hunt?”
That question, to me, a Catholic College graduate, an intellectual, mother of a squirmy 1 year old.... Well, it was as if I’d been asked: “Do you know any Martians?”
It was question so far out of my experience that I was stunned! How could a woman ask that of a woman? In a laundromat? With her baby in a baby seat nearby?
It was 1970!!!! I had never thought of guns. Or hunting.
But today, if I were poor, why there might be a woman in the laundromat, maybe folding clothes - wearing a pistol!
This has become a country I no longer recognize. At least in 1970 guns meant hunting.
But now? My own little sister (well, she’s 65 now) wears a concealed weapon! Like... every day! This information terrified me when I learned it! A few years back.
I hate to say this. But: I do not want to be near people who wear guns. Who, even if they told you they weren’t wearing one... well, it’s concealed, so how would you know? She lives in a far-away state. Thank goodness!
13
Concealed Carry permit holders are the safest people to be around statistically.
1
The NRA's contributions to (pronounced "purchase of") members of Congress is the cost of business that creates the gun industry's large profits.
In Greed We Trust.
5
The Republicans argued that people need to be able to carry guns — even in states where it’s against the law — because it just makes you safer. There’s an extremely popular vision of the average citizen drawing his concealed weapon and shooting a crazed gunman. This almost never happens in the real world
But the myth lives on
=======================
Sorry Ms Collins but the CDC disagrees with you:
Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008
https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1
It's no myth
2
It is a lengthy document. What page(s) present the data you cite?
1
I long for the days when Gail muttered "Dog on the roof" in every column. What used to be outrageous seems so sweet and naïve.
5
Remember the mindless rant of the 70’s — Love it or Leave it? If you’ve got relatives in Canada, leaving the lower 48 is looking like the real deal!
4
I thought the Repubs revered and protected states rights. Seems when there is money involved the money "trumps" states rights.
6
Problems arise when you try to travel from one place to another. Like in Colorado. You can open carry anywhere but the city of Denver. I can literally walk across the street and now I'm breaking the law. Laws that are enacted to allow open/concealed carry at a federal level would simplify this issue.
It just might be that with all the effort to remove any and all obstacles to every living breathing (and possibly some not) person to stockpile guns, that the women get up and mad at all this endless harassment, abuse, and destruction of our careers and lives, and take the NRA and Repubs seriously. The men in Congress should be careful what they wish for.
Don't get distracted by mass shootings; the gun problem is actually far worse than the statistics on mass shootings suggest. 2/3 of all gun deaths in the US are suicides, while mass shootings cause only 1/100 of gun deaths.
Guns in the hands of the general public make us less safe: guns are used in suicides, and relationship squabbles, and gang violence, and accidental shootings in far greater numbers than mass shootings. If we reduce the number of guns, we'll save lives.
11
Guns in the hands of the general public make us less safe: guns are used in suicides, and relationship squabbles, and gang violence, and accidental shootings in far greater numbers than mass shootings. If we reduce the number of guns, we'll save lives.
====================
Demonstrably untrue.
Since the early 1990s, the number of guns in circulation in the US has doubled while the gun homicide rate has fallen 50%
so if someone wants to commit suicide, you think taking guns away from them will stop it? hanging seems to be popular lately. carbon monoxide is still a big favorite. if someone has made the choice, leave them alone.
As a strong supporter of firearms and less restrictions on firearms I do agree with what you are saying in that if there were no guns we would save lives. But to get from here to there is not practical and still be able to retain the second amendment which is designed to help protect people for tyranny. It's kind of like saying that if we get rid of cars we will save lives (in 2015, 35,092 people died in the U.S.), or if we get rid of Doctors we will save lives (Medical errors lead to over 250,000 deaths per year in the U.S.).
It's just not practical unless you have better ideas?
We all wish 2017 was over already. What a terrible year. The economy is humming but everybody is still miserable. I wouldn't get bent over about gun control though. Meaningless gestures are just that: Meaningless. If pro-gun advocates want to waste tax payer money pretending to accomplish something, let them. I prefer a wasted effort to any pro-gun legislation on the federal level. Missouri can do whatever they want. Just don't bring it here. Missouri police might not be so eager to shoot robbery suspects if they didn't assume everyone was already armed. Just saying.
1
For every homicide or gun "accident," there are two suicides by firearms. Of the approximately 30,000 gun deaths annually, of those, approximately 20,000 are suicides. Having a handgun around the house makes death by suicide a quick possibility. It is extremely effective when compared to other forms of suicide. But, no one talks about this. Another reason for gun control.
5
The gun is just the tool, not the problem. The issue is the individual that can't get the help they need or the stigma around mental health issues. That is where the focus should be.
Its a pushy bill. Enforcing. A way to keep others in line who have tried to defend themselves. Stay in line, States. You know who you are.
At the very same time in history there are women standing up and pointing out those who assumed they could be pushy and nobody would say anything. It was assumed they would always be powerless. One day, men and women started caring a lot.
Democrats and Republicans have to start caring A LOT.
2
The right to carry issue isn't as simple as Ms. Collins implies. In Virginia Terry McAuliffe decided he would restore voters right to tens of thousands convicted felons so they would feel like they were part of society again. Now they are considering giving guns to felons. Maybe that is part of helping them feel they are part of society. Maybe both ideas are righteous or maybe both are really stupid. Take your choice. Right to carry needs to be dealt with. Two states may have that right but the right may be ok for those who live in one state but illegal for those who have the right from another state, the consequences can be serious. Gerrymandering right to carry laws leads to problems that shouldn't happen. A short while ago, a war veteran was traveling south. He decided to visit a comrade who had been seriously wounded and was at the military hospital in Washington DC. He had an unloaded gun in the trunk of his car. He was just passing through. He got stopped by the D.C. police who searched his car and found the gun in the trunk. The soldier was arrested and charged with a felony. That's not right. So, if we are going to have right to carry laws, they need to be consistent. It isn't just felons that some want to allow gun purchases. People on the FBI watch list like Omar Mateen also are permitted to buy guns. People with serious psychological problems as well. Each group has its advocates. Common sense doesn't.
We need a common sense lobbyist.
1
alas ms collins, "things", gun things, north korea things, election of loonies things have a way of "coming back"...truth is that they never go away and that they are there in the first place because the guardians of our state (feckless electeds) and state of mind, the press (trash the clown who got past ungarded gates) and our schools (safe spaces for anything except free inquiry), as examples, are distracted, much more interested in retail sales than a share of responsibility for the state of the union.
So much for States' Rights I guess? Whatever. This will just be a catalyst for us here in the Northeast to stop pretending there's a benefit to constantly bankrolling ungrateful conservatives. We don't care about your laws. bring your gun here and you're going to Rikers. If you don't like it, don't come here.
3
no problem. we'll just keep the food in the flyover states, okay? and you can continue to enjoy your big city utopia.
I agree, no one should have a gun there. Not the police, not the sheriff, not the politicians, no one. I would love to see it.
"Where does the well-regulated militia fit into this" is what Democrats ought to be asking every time one of these NRA-appeasing proposals comes up.
4
These gunslingers in Congress should be armed with concealed paint guns, then a loud bang which sounds just like a gun should be fired by a professional sniper at a random time of the day. Let them see, quite literally, how many of them have paint on their hands. Let them see if they get the sniper or just shoot one another. Let them see how many of them shoot themselves in the foot.
1
We should do this at sporting event and concerts too. But give the shooter live rounds and take away all other guns. lets see how long it takes to get the shooter.
Or we could just look at reports of actual events where a concealed carry person defended themselves or a loved one against a crime. There are lots and lot of those reports available.
guns do way more good than bad if you r really, honestly look into the facts.
As brilliant and inciteful as Ms. Collins is, this is still all very depressing and sad! See the excellent article in October Scientific American on guns - link below-
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-cr...
Don't give up hope - the truth is out there!
Vic Reno
Let me see if I have this correct. I can carry a gun onto a college campus and into a classroom and I can carry a gun into a church, school or bar. But I’m not allowed to carry a gu. Into the Capitol Building. Why is the Capitol Building off limits?
5
no, by law you cannot carry a gun into a bar.
Actually you can concealed carry a gun into the Texas State Capitol
OMG!
The Gun Thing {by which you actually mean the Constitution} is back {as if it ever left}.
No, the new bill doesn’t put guns in the hands of violent felons. It prevents the federal government from dictating to states sentencing standards. In other words it reenforces the 9th and 10th Amendments.
No, it doesn’t eliminate background checks. It does require an upgrade to the system and prevent the ‘automatic’ 10 day delay. It requires an immediate downcheck for cause.
No, it doesn’t prevent states from restricting concealed carry permits. It does require the states follow the “full faith and confidence” clause. The exact same rule that allows you to drive a car in all 50 states while on vacation.
No, the comparing the gun homicide rate in the US with any nation isn’t valid. The homicide rate of the US and all industrial nations is less than 1/10 of a percent different.
No, the Gabby Gifford “Ghost Gun” initiative will not prevent any mass shootings. So far not one mass shooting has occurred where a ghost gun was used.
And FYI the scare tactic won’t work, all the ‘horrific cases of mass produced, untraceable, fully automatic, assault weapons” are already crimes, that no new law will prevent. Oh and it is really only 5 mass shootings not 340, do try to not use others debunked lies.
What I do find interesting is how this tired tale appears to be exactly the inverse of your thesis, an poor attempt to divert attention away from liberal sex crimes.
Who is next?
1
Goodlatte is a fool; sure, if lawmakers had been packing heat none of them would have been hurt. And members of Congress should be able to conceal carry as a right? Let's first make it open carry in the halls of Congress. Let's see how they feel exposed when others have guns. Over a century ago we had one Senator almost beat to death another Senator with his walking stick--right there on Capitol in the Senate chamber. Yeah, arm our legislators...great idea.
And if Missourians feel naked and unprotected in California, stay home! Your state law has no application in California and if the NRA gets their dream legislation to make open carry national, then people should march on Congress with their own weapons and have free access. After all, the 2nd amendment is Holy Writ, right?
Having served nearly 25 years as a police officer, here's the extension of the nightmare (every one you encounter as a cop is ARMED): the LOTUS (Lunatic Of The United States) is stacking the nationwide judiciary with right-wing, unqualified neocons. Shooting victims and their families will have less and less relief in the courts. Soon it will be, shoot with impunity, nothing's going to happen to you, there ain't any consequences.
2
like cops do?
You know it's really sad that I feel this way. In my head I've started to be thankful when the gun massacres happen in states where they really support gun rights.
Disgusting, but that's how I feel.
1
Dear Republicans:
Arming criminals, domestic abusers, and terrorists makes people less safe, not more.
love, Common Sense and Factually-based Reality
2
Wasn't Congress going to ban "bump stocks" after the massacre in Las Vegas, where so many people were murdered by a super-armed madman with no recognizable motive?
I guess the NRA must have dumped another truckload of money into Republican coffers to make them "forget" about the issue. What a surprise.
2
The battle cry of “Aux armes citoyens!” may still be part of the French national anthem (1792,) but sensible French people don’t expect it to apply to their daily lives in modern times. American gun zealots seem to live in a permanent state of fear where they’re back in the Revolutionary War surrounded by King George’s “redcoats.” When the French go to restaurants and bars, they want to concentrate on what’s on their plates and in their glasses and not whether some “well regulated militia” with concealed weapons is sitting at the next table.
3
There are mornings when even you Ms Collins can't brighten them up;
this is one of them.
Slave owners stopped believing in state rights when it interfered w/ their ability to recover runaway slaves. Gun activists stopped when it interfered w/ their ability to carry guns.
2
Another reason the Republic of California should build a wall ... along the Sierra Nevada.
In order to be truly safe, we need to correct the error in the Second Amendment. Instead of "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed", it should read "the requirement of the people...etc."
This will be a great boon to our economy with all the new jobs for gunsmiths, cartridge recyclers, upholsterers and coffin makers.
1
We are officially supposed to be afraid of “Radical Islamic Terrorists” but not supposed to fear heavily armed white males who tend to be either loners or associate themselves with the “White Power/Alt Right” movement.
Of course this is all a diversion causing our news organizations to direct our attention away from the fact that the 45th Administration is collapsing in front of our eyes and that our President is not at all effective at anything but tweeting and hurling insults.
Unfortunately there are still a lot of Americans who enthusiastically cheer 45 because they love the show and are convinced that our manipulator in chief has their back.
2
If Ratko Mladic can be prosecuted for crimes against humanity, why can't Wayne Lapiere? He and the lobbying arm of the NRA are responsible for two or three times the number of deaths _per year_ in the U.S than Mladic was during the war.
1
"There’s an extremely popular vision of the average citizen drawing his concealed weapon and shooting a crazed gunman. This almost never happens in the real world."
Exactly! Yet I hear this from conservatives in my state almost daily. It's one thing for trained people to carry weapons because they are needed in their professions (police, military, even diamond dealers and some reporters), but quite another for untrained people of any age to carry guns they may misuse, even as they try to use them properly. We've all read such stories frequently.
I urge the Senate to vote "no" on such a bill, if it reaches there.
2
Their incapacity to visualize the complexities of real world gunfights is just another byproduct of their overall incapacity to empathize.
1
It happens more often than liberals want to admit. It happened in Texas when that ex soldier, Charles Whitman got in the clock tower in Austin back in 1966. It happened in 1973 when Mark Essex, ex Navy, took over a Howard Johnson's hotel in downtown New Orleans and it happened recently in Texas again when a resident shot the killer in Sutherland Springs. There have been a few incidents in New Orleans in the past few years when an armed citizen shot back at armed thugs preventing further killings.
I would approve of anyone and everyone to have the right to concealed carry and open carry through the halls of Congress. Especially when there is a vote going one, or a caucus. Maybe even allow small explosives to be carried into political caucus meetings that are required to be open to the public.
That would be interesting, and in keeping with the Banana Republic we are quickly becoming under this government we have elected.
3
This is what happens when legislators have no sense of community or desire to protect the common citizen. Seventy percent of the American electorate want sensible gun laws. Because our elected representatives are controlled by money and a very verbal minority, they can't reflect common decency, it's all about who gives them the most money for a particular stance. If the money flows in, that's where they go. I will not pay a legislator to do the right thing - that's supposed to be their job. Our system must change, and people need to be voted in that are willing to change it.
2
I don't like the idea of opening the door to Big Insurance, because if gun ownership required insurance, renewable annually, for every gun in the U.S., they would make a LOT of money--probably enough to pay out the millions that 30,000 deaths a year will demand.
2
I am a conservative, progun southerner. I believe that states that severely limit a citizen's right to carry do them a great disservice. However, I oppose this bill. I do not think federal law should override the state's ability to enact its own laws regarding firearms. This obviously cuts both ways as I don't want the feds dictating what we do in Texas.
1
I am old, partially disabled, and travel the back roads of America doing photography. I carry several thousand dollars worth of cameras and lenses. In this, I fully understand I can be seen as a chicken, available to be plucked. As a condequence, I carry a handgun, which is licensed and registered, I practice regularly--strong hand, weak hand, standing, lying. I may never have to as much as present my firearm, but if I do I am prepared. What am I to do if I happen to be in a state where my North Carolina permit is not honored and the local sheriff is 20 minutes away, at best? Like all else, there's more to this issue than a simple "No" allows.
1
A quick Google search came up with the following...
.38 caliber ammo comes in boxes of 50 rounds for around $17 a box. That's about 35 cents a bullet.
A typical .38 caliber revolver holds 5 rounds, so with one $17 box of ammo you can reload this gun 10 times.
I would suggest passing all the concealed carry laws you want. And then focus on imposing annual purchase limits on ammunition --- say, 10 refills (1box) per year --- the control of which would be funded by a $5 per bullet federal tax, with maybe a state tax added on top of that. The FET on liquor is $13.50 a gallon, so 5 bucks on a bullet seems pretty reasonable to me.
We continue to argue about the wrong thing. Guns without ammo are useless, yet ammo can be purchased in unlimited quantities, on-line, without a background check or any other restriction. What good does it do to limit gun purchases, poorly as it turns out, if there are no limits on ammo purchases?
Give 'em all the guns they want... hand out the bullets one at a time.
1
"The House Judiciary Committee just voted to make it impossible for a state to always keep people convicted of violent offenses from carrying concealed weapons."
Are all constitutional rights equal? Should a person convicted of violent offenses be allowed to vote? Should a person convicted of child abuse ever be allowed to be in the company of children alone? Do we as a society believe that when one pays their debt to society the debt no longer exists and the slate is washed clean?
If we have any right at all to live free of public policy psychopathology, it is unrecognized by the Constitution.
There's a meme going around the internet that points out the difference between the USA's and Australia's attitudes towards gun control.
"Sharks have been sighted up and down the coastline, threatening all the beaches.
Australia's solution: put up nets to protect the the swimmers.
The USA's response: give each swimmer their own shark to protect them from the other sharks."
4
So, along this same line of thought, I can drive as fast in any state as I can in my home state. No problem there. I guess the State Patrol will have to learn the rules of the road for every state. Maybe I should move to Montana, where rural speeds are 80. Then I'm sure the cop will not stop me when he sees my license plate.
1
Ms. Collins. Yes, the "Gun Thing's back".
It is not back to debate on gun control, or discuss the grievances of those who have lost their lives from the use of guns. It is back to support gun ownership. This is such a shame. Because, our elected representatives do not see the need to look into gun controls.
Due to lack of proper checks and balances on gun ownership, thousands of innocent lives have been lost. Congress has not taken any steps to address this issue.
2
According to gun proponents, having even more firearms in circulation will make us a safer country. So the question is: How come the United States, with the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, also has the highest number of gun fatalities? Shouldn't we have the fewest? Or is there some magic number that has yet to be reached before we can all rest easy -- thanks to the NRA, its craven shills in Congress, and our next-door neighbors with assault rifles under their beds?
3
As a former hunter and army veteran, I would like to point out that most hunting laws limit the amount/number of bullets/shells one can use in your weapon when hunting. The only time one can have unlimited ammunition is when one is hunting his fellow man/woman. Aint that strange?
5
No it's not strange at all. Is there also a rule that limits the number of attackers who can bust in your door at 2am?
How sad that now even Gail has to address this issue, instead of giving us the one moment of daily laughter we need while reading the rest of the news. Perhaps, knowing that after this past week of creep revelations on both the right and left, we are not in a mood to laugh and she is trying to distract us with the gun issue. But she is right. I can't imagine anyone is in the mood to chuckle, much less laugh.
2
The NRA is not in favor of murder. Calling over five million ordinary citizens (you may even know some) who are the NRA members evil, complicit in murder or crazy is not helpful.
Reasonable people may disagree about what additional laws, if any, would be helpful in reducing overall violence and murder. Just as reasonable people may disagree about what the ideal tax rate is to promote growth.
Why complain that 1800 Wisconsinites are obviously teaching their children how to be responsible hunters by purchasing a license for them? I used to target shoot with a neighbors ten year old, now a careful responsible adult.
3
NRA members are complicit. For at least three decades, the NRA/ALEC has done everything in its power to ensure that gun murders continue. You don't like what the NRA is doing (do you even know?), quit the NRA. Sorry if the truth hurts your feelings.
1
The guy who got a gun license for his baby (under one year old, mind you), got it so he could kill more animals than his own permit allowed.
Unless, of course, you really believe he's out there showing the kid how to target shoot from his stroller?
Ize, as you are an NRA member - can you tell me what regulations the NRA is actually supportive of? We only hear of their role opposing things. If you know of ways in which the NRA is trying to push for at least some sensible gun measures, it would be useful and an education if you would share them.
The second amendment is now primarily used as a shield to protect gun ownership for purposes that are, at best, secondary to its intended purpose. It's very difficult to change the constitution, and exponentially more so when the change involves removing something that is dear to people living in red states. But, gun regulation advocates need to understand that almost nothing that they are trying to do will be successful as long as the second amendment exists. There are some effective regulations that would probably not violate the second amendment that we can focus on in the short term (e.g., universal background checks, waiting periods), but if we hope to go beyond these modest regulations, we will need to change the constitution. Eliminating the second amendment may be nearly impossible, but devoting effort towards clearly unattainable goals (e.g., banning assault rifles, banning high-capacity magazines, etc.) is just distracting us from what really needs to be done.
Our unconscionable Republicans — minions of the NRA — enable the wholesale slaughter of civilians. Reprehensible hypocrites and cowards. "Well-regulated" to them equals accepting weapons industry campaign contributions, nothing more.
1
Wholesale slaughter? Let's see now. Using approximate numbers on an annual basis, 30,000 dead from guns, 30,000 dead from car accidents, 33,000 dead from opioid overdose, 400,000 dead from preventable medical error, which is the third leading cause of death in the USA.
Strange priorities.
1
In parallel, perhaps residents of states with liberal laws regarding pot should be allowed to carry a J in their pocket wherever they travel. Yeah, now that will go down real well in the red states. “But officer, you can’t arrest me. This is legal where I come from.”
3
It's illegal all over the country. It's still a violation of federal law.
Aristotle, you could make the further point that there’s no constitutional right to get high, and I would concur. But my hypothetical example is really intended to illustrate the absurdity of expecting police in one state to know and apply the correct statutes of each and every one of the other forty-nine. Can we agree on that?
No. The police would only enforce the laws of their state. So if there was a national reciprocity law they would just be aware of how the national law affects their own state's law. It's like real estate licensing laws. Every state has their own laws and some states will recognized another state's real estate license, but it's up to the individual to determine which states accept which license. A person transporting a gun across state lines has the responsibility to know that state's gun laws. Owning a gun is a big responsibility.
This is more reason to give control of Congress to Democrats in 2018.
Send Trump home in 2020.
Call Congress (202-224-3121) and tell your representatives that you oppose this legislation. Tell them you will remember in November 2018.
When gun violence happens, the blood is on our hands as a nation because we elect and re-elect people who will not give us gun regulations. Studies show that states with lax gun laws have more gun deaths. Google it.
3
Democrats, the Alabama election in December is a major litmus test, not 2018. Don't blow it.
3
Look, those under 1 year old licensed to carry Wisconsin hunters are all Americans. And what are all Americans, entitled to? Guns. The more guns the better. Las Vegas showed the value of an armed citizenry. When no one knows where gunfire is coming from, if everyone is armed, they can fire in every and all directions. Someone is sure to hit something. Sure some innocent people might be killed. But if everyone is armed with military grade weapons, then they are unlikely to suffer long with wounds. They'll die quickly. I call that justice. What do you call it? Freedom? Tradition? Slaughter? Come on with that last one! This here's America, gosh darn it. Spit out some tobacco and shoot. Yahoooooo.
2
This crazy expansion of gun rights will only stop when African-Americans in large numbers begin to open-carry firearms.
4
Q. Why do you need a gun?
A. To protect myself
Q. From who?
A. From bad people with guns.
Q. Where did they get the guns?
A. Why, they steal them.
Q. From who?
A. From good people with guns.
3
I have a proposal for people who like to hunt. "Open season" all year around, everywhere. Any animal, any weapon, any time. Only one small requirement: When hunting, you must wear a fuzzy brown suit and antlers on your head.
3
No point talking about gun control. Just buy your own weapon. If it's illegal in the state where you live, just go to the next state. Buy plenty of ammo too. You might even try target practice in your backyard on the neighbor's barking dog. We all need protection from the next jihad.
3
Everyone dies, no?
what happened to states' rights? i'm old, so i remember when some republicans were honest, rational people. now the party is all about hypocrisy, sexual predation and child molestation and tax cuts for Donald Trump and his quintile.
2
By the way, when are federal buildings in Washington DC going to get rid of their metal detectors and such, so all visiting citizens are free to carry weapoins? And when is Secret Service protection going to be abolished? The president and his top people can just carry their own guns.
6
I have grown weary of the lack of seriousness in Gail's columns. Her flippancy helps to normalize horrid aspects of life that should be shunned not accepted. Gail you truly need to get serious. You clearly are intelligent and quite good at pointing out the issues, pleas stop shrugging at the problems and give them the sobriety they demand. Laughing at trump, gun violence, etc., is accepting such garbage.
1
Oh my, Someone besides me telling her to grow up.
Aristotle,
Thank you!
tbs.
www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/gun-control-us-capitol-120310
"Why should Congress be the only gun-free zone in America?"
3
sorry, but, how would reasonable and sane weapons restrictions 'ruin christmas at the kings''?
maybe it is iowa being almost dead-centre of america,
but the rest of the civilized world is at a loss to understand americans' adoration of the magnum rather than the magi at this time of year. so much for your vaunted 'christian values' rep king.
i live in canada. i hope our refugee laws are generous enough to allow another influx of you, a la the sixties and vietnam. you're led by a madman and his band of marionettes in congress.
2
After reading (part) of this I decided that I am not going to worry or think much any more about things that have turned out to be just stupid and on which I can have no meaningful effect. The gun issue is one of these. Big fat lies by ideologically-driven power brokers seem to dominate the discussion, as they used to when abortion was deemed a crime. So I am bowing out, let the world be the world, it doesn't affect me that much really, except when I allow it to.
1
Repeal the Second Amendment and allow our legislators to pass common-sense laws regulating the ownership, possession, and use of firearms.
For now, every person in range of the village idiot's firearm of choice must take the risk that he will accidentally discharge it, or will misunderstand a situation or mistake his target and will purposely discharge it. And the carnage goes on...
1
"Some people fix problems."
(1) Fixing is repairing what's broken--or otherwise imperfect. Sometimes that's impossible--Humpty Dumpty!
Then--we move to Cope--or Improve and Cope.
Then--reconsider the facts--Maybe it's not really broken?
Then--reconsider the standards of value--Maybe they are too high--and that's the best possible example of X or Y--perfection!
Then--leave--divorce, quit, emigrate--ultimately suicide--as old Existentialists would say. Oh Canada! Or--for fake news lovers--Heaven.
(2) But fixing also presumes (in addition to possibility) a diagnosis--What went wrong? It's a special variation on causation--not the total recipe, but the abnormal factor salient against a background of good/right ones.
A statistically "normal" population has a bell curve distribution of vice/virtue, order/disorder. The mean = median =mode. The average person is wreck--thus democracy's problem.
The distribution has a smaller % of very virtuous/ordered (more or less perfect) or vicious/disordered (more or less abnormal, evil or sick) --which can be improved, but never eliminated. The psychopaths and the selfish will always be among us. (Even if not president.)
Given demographic reality, What's the diagnosis of mass murder (397!) USA? It's not the inevitable vice/disorder. It's rather obviously their easy access to weapons of mass destruction.
That Japan's rate is 297 times lower than US's, is not because vice/disorder doesn't exist there. Though that might be lower too!
1
Wanna be a big shot?
Guns are cheap. The swaggering macho-man who can’t afford a Lamborghinis or Rolex, doesn’t have lingerie models clinging to his arms, and needs to actually do something to make his crummy living can buy a bunch of them and feel the power. It’s like having your big brother with you at the playground. Act tough because you’ve got the stuff. And you can dream of the day when you single-handedly stop a massacre in Las Vegas or save the president from assassination. Be a hero!
But they never think of accidentally obliterating a neighbor or having their child find the weapon and shoot themselves or committing a tragic act in a moment of anger or panic. That’s always some fool that doesn’t know how to handle a gun. Or is human.
3
Donald Trump is right. A wall is absolutely needed. It is a dire necessity; now more than every. But it's not for the protection of American's. No. It's more to keep the citizens of America cordoned off and away from the rest of the planet, so that the rest of the planet can breath easier.
Because American society, from its leadership caste right down to the rank and file, are simply crazy, loco, stark raving bonkers in the head. This piece of legislation proves it. With this maniacal obsession on guns is it any wonder other societies get twitchy and back away whenever an American is in their presence? Everyone else looks at us, our yearly kill rate, and thinks "Yeah, sure, now there's a group that needs more guns!"
Can you really blame the likes of North Korea for, in effect, saying "What? No way you're gonna leave me alone with American's in a room without protection! No way at ALL! You can SEE what they're like can't you!??!"
Face it folks. American's, as a society; as a nation, are stark raving looney tunes. Over the hill and gone! So a wall is needed. You've got to keep the inmates in an asylum secure and away from all the rest of the (more) sane citizenry don't'cha? It's the civic thing to do. It's the right thing to do. So our nuttier than a fruit-cake POTUS, as lead member in the asylum, has this one right.
So it goes.
John~
American Net'Zen
1
The 2nd starts off talking about the need for a well regulated militia.
It sounds like getting rid of regulations is unconstitutional.
And a militia is at least a few people, like a small army, like the Reserves maybe, not a single gun nut.
1
I believe many of these mass murderers must have been be members of the National Rifle Association (NRA). Usually when the background of these killers is revealed, personal arsenals are found and we suspect they are "gun nuts. Could it be possible to have the NRA cooperate in locating those crazies within their ranks before they shoot up innocent people?
1
In the midst of every thing Gail (kudos to you as always) mentions in these horrible dark times, now we have the gun nuts shouting lies and nonsense and congress apparently lost their mind and agreed. I'm SICK of the second amendment perversion taking away everyone else's right to life. Shame on all of you that make America a horrible unsafe place to live.
2
But of course: in many states a convicted felon can lose his voting rights, since they are not written into the Bill of Rights, but guns? (misinterpretted) second amendment!
2
In American, the gun IS the flag!
2
When did America become all guns, bibles and Klansmen? What happened to the Grateful Dead and "Taxi". I miss Latka Gravas.
1
The paranoid and crazy must have their false sense of security...even if it kills the rest of us...
1
This gun owner and hunter intends to be out at midterm voting against these gun nuts. I hope you will join me, because we can be a nation that protects the Second Amendment and imposes realistic restrictions on the ownership and use of certain categories of firearms.
2
What no idiotic bleating about 'mental health' after studies show that only 4% of gun slaughters involve it?
Are Americans 297 times more deranged than the Japanese? Japan, an adult-oriented country that has strict gun control, values public safety. The US, beholden to an incredibly selfish group of fetishists, does not.
The bottom line is: the House GOP gun nuts--well--are simply nuts.
The fact that they are in Congress is an indictment of the voters in their districts.
When will the gun madness, which saturates this nation, end?
1
In theory, I am not opposed to some gun regulations based on sound facts and sound science.
When Gail Collins says things like “You have places like California, where people are carefully screened, trained and tested before they can get a gun and permit.”...I get mad. Why?
Because in most every county in California you cannot get a permit. Period. With the new law a few years ago banning open carry coupled with the fact that one cannotget a concealed carry permit, there is a defacto ban on the ability of people in California to carry a hand gun.
It is because of such “fake reporting” that the hardcore gun people are fighting and fighting against anything that regulates guns. The simply do not trust anyone is saying what they mean on gun control. All they see is gun control equals guns either confiscated or locked so deep inboxes are to be useless to them.
I am all for a rational conversation about some was to stem the violence around guns, but if we do not have a shared set of facts, and Gail Collins wins the Joseph Goebbles award in this article, on the facts then everyone will forever be at a loggerhead on this issues.
1
Guns, taxes, internet, abortion, etc.: The wishes of the vast majority of Americans are being totally ignored by the foul money-grubbers of the GOP. It has never been clearer that our representatives don't care about us. The will of the people be damned, the dollar is god. What is it going to take to make them listen?
1
The gun fetishists are the same folks as the "person-hood" nutcases, yes?
I guess if we are not going to allow any form of birth control to manage uncheck population growth, we should do it by flooding the country with guns.
1
What we have is a failure to communicate. Trumplandia wins! It’s a red state Roy “morals” Moore, Alabama confederate-last-stand-Trump world.
You gotta get your mind right.
To all the gun owners out there: Its not fun for gun owners to be all being labeled as crazy mass murderers assembling arsenals in their homes, is it? Now you know how it feels for all black people to be labeled as lazy welfare dependants.
1
http://valleytalking.blogs.sonomanews.com/2017/11/20/357-million-guns/
-WW
A mass shooting in America, on average, more than once a day. A national gun-related death rate higher than narco-infested Mexico. And the NRA keeps pushing their insane bills through a compliant congress. It's becoming clear that we need protection from them.
N.R.A. = Death Cult
2
Who cares. America is the land of gun nuts and mass shootings. Get over it.
In America a Lotto win may just be a bullet between your eyes at a shopping mall. Congratulations, you are now famous.
It sure don't make me feel any safer than any other 3rd world on the planet. Oh wait. Right. 3rd world. That's what guns do - they instantly make it a 3rd world country with everyone armed. I guess the thinking is we won't be safe unless everyone has a people killing machine, aka, a gun? Smart. Arm everyone and then no one will have to live in fear because everyone has guns. See? It's that simple. Sleep with your gun and fear brown skin.
Every day the US plunges deeper into the abyss of abject psychopath-enabling idiocy.
2
Gohmert, King, and Goodlatte in the same room at the same time?
I'm surprised it didn't create a black hole of stupid.
4
Aside from the fact that the 2nd Amendment does not amount to a license to bear arms except as a part of a well-regulated militia, it is appalling to list to senators and congressmen genuflect before scum like Wayne LaPierre and his juggernaut organization. 55 years ago, when I participated in a riflery program sponsored by the NRA, it was all about safety, shooting targets. Like a lot of other kids, I learned an immense amount about how to handle gun, and I walked away with a sharpshooter rating. Our current gun yahoos don't know anything except how to pull the trigger, almost inevitably in the wrong circumstances. Arming everyone will only lead to endless bloodshed. But maybe the Swiss model could prevail. Except that there is simply way too much iron already on the street. Perhaps the only answer is litigation, and the NRA stand makes it plausible.
3
Since 71 year old Donald "Bone Spur" Trump was elected President of the United States he has spent 100+ days of his 300+ days in office golfing, gorging and gabbing at a Trump resort, hotel, office and golf course. Maybe Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin can spare time from his Kremlin office to help his American stooge puppy dummy do his job. Slumming at the White House may proves to be as distasteful for Putin as it clearly has been for Trump. Perhaps the ethnic Slavic Slovenian communist atheist Third Lady Melania could stick around to host and entertain her fellow ethnic Slavic Russian communist atheist lawyer KGB agent FSB head and Czar wannabe Vladimir I the Awesome.
1
It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. Insanity, cruelty and ignorance are the new norms. We dread learning what new crackpot thing they come up with on a daily basis. This is what Republicans call freedom ? A man-child with severe emotional, mental and learning disabilities is their idea of a President ? We can't take much more of this. These morons need to be gone by 2018 the latest and the Orange Moron needs to go now, this minute.
2
Nazi Germany emerged on Krystallnacht. The American equivalent may be remembered as Pistolnacht.
1
Guns and Rape: So Republican!
The Raping of America = Pillaging of the Public Purse
The Gunning of America = Go Pillage!
Guns are our Golden Bull, our idol that we just cannot rid ourselves of. They make you safe. They make you free. They make you happy. They make you dead. Sounds kind of like a mythic god, no?
So expect no logic or reason. People are not logical or reasonable about fetishes.
Of course we need to keep pointing out - without hope of reason - that our fetish kills. And that it is nuts to assure the convicted of the right to shoot to kill because that is how freedom works, even as you push him off the voter rolls.
But we are nuts. Certifiable. Up is down, black is white, taxes and government are bad (unless you are in it) , guns are good, and anything you don't like is fake news, not reality, while fact is whatever you want it to be.
The whole world thinks we have fallen down a rabbit hole.
1
Gail Collins is a wonderful opinion writer and her wit is frequently insightful, sharp and on-point. I look forward to reading her mostly funny, smart pieces.
But this column covers a topic that is simply sad and there is not much to be said to lighten it up. Gail tried. The NRA is no laughing matter - they are serious purveyors of killing machines and history shows they won't stop.
Also, "lightening up" an article is frequently done using false equivalencies, sometimes with dashes of humor to keep the reader's attention. I find this a problem with more and more articles in the Times and elsewhere in the MSM - false equivalencies like Al Frankin apologist for his actions vs sexual predators Donald Trump, Roy Moore, etc who deny, deflect and belittle their accusers constantly. Also the articles on "tax cuts" across the media which sometimes modestly defend what our completely sold-out millionaire congressmen and women are doing to screw us, all under the cover of darkness. There is no false equivalency that can make them look like serious lawmakers - they are simply committing an evil, perhaps traitorous act upon on America.
I am anxiously waiting for my other comment to be posted. It's legal, but you know that NYT censor. Maybe my argument is too destructive to the flawed logic of the poorly informed editorialist?
1
Ah. So that's how it's going to be, eh.
Dont flatter yourself- lol. It either wasnt interesting enough or there are a lot of comments and you have to wait your turn.
1
Nah. You haven't seen them all.
They have posted them all now after i scolded them for their discrimination against me.
Next step, I suppose, is to pass a law requiring every able-bodied person over the age of ten to carry a gun and make us all responsible for protecting ourselves. This, at least, possesses the virtue of not pretending anyone in the White House or the Republican Party gives a damn about us.
2
Well, and then you could do away with the police departments, and even the National Guard, and maybe the Army, because we could all be citizen cops, and citizen military. And then we could do away with the courts and the lawyers and say that whatever someone with enough guns wants to do is legal because after all they can kill anyone who stands in their way .... and so on.
Maybe instead we could pass a law that no one could have a gun and that people that are found with them go to jail and the rest of us can go on with our lives like Brits, the French, Swedes, the Swiss, Germans, Australians, and, in fact, pretty much anyone that doesn't live in the 3rd World, the Middle East, or Russia, or the U.S.
Gail Collins - Thank you for this important piece that raises awareness about the very real threat that HR 38 CCR raises. Those of us in the gun violence prevention movement deeply appreciate when members of the responsible press keep the issue on people's radar. However, I wish your piece had included a paragraph or two about all of the great work that groups like Everytown/Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense are doing to push good bills and fight bad bills at the state and federal levels. For example, hundreds of Moms showed up in DC yesterday and protested in the halls outside the House Judiciary Committee hearing on HR38 CCR. The amount of support from members of our movement has grown dramatically in recent months and we're getting stronger every day. Please, the next time, you write about this issue, please consider focusing on what's working in the GVP movement. This story needs to be told as well. Thank you.
3
OK, Republicans in Congress, time to put up or shut up. If you have the courage of your convictions [sic], you’ll allow concealed carry of firearms in the visitors’ galleries in Congress and in the House and Senate office buildings.
I double-dare you to subject yourselves to the same danger in YOUR workplace that we face in ours every day, thanks to gun laws that are ridiculous and that aren’t even enforced. I’ll bet you won’t do it, though. You want to allow guns everywhere except where YOU work, and you’re only courageous with other people’s lives.
8
I live in Missouri. I'm just waiting for the Powers that Be to make it illegal for Missourians to NOT own a gun. (Note sarcasm.)
5
Trebek: Steve King and Louie Gohmert.
Contestant: Who are the dumbest and craziest House Members?
Trebek: Correct, of course. You still control the board.
5
I don't know what else to say. "Complicit?" YES!!!! Too many are complicit in the devastating laws being passed under Trump.
Let's NOT look back 3 or 8 years from now and wonder why we didn't act.
The Blue States MUST leave the United States. Look at history. Countries don't survive forever. Yes, it's a difficult decision. But let's act now!!! Who's in?
5
A couple of months ago I would have disagreed, but I had this thought just yesterday now the tax bill plans to increase the redistribution of tax benefits to the takers at the top and red states. Northeasterners, what about it?
4
Based on the principle of reciprocity, my neighbors and I would then have complete moral license to loot and pillage the secessionists. We are well armed.
Trump and the Republicans want all of the right wing nuts to be heavily armed with assault weapons when the military takes over the United States. This country is lurching toward civil war.
5
Back?!?! Just ask any family of THIS week's victims. Or last week's. Or last month's....Guns have never been gone.....guns have never stopped killing living things. That is what they are designed to do. That is what they are purchased to do. That is what they are borrowed to do: KILL. And they do it quite well..............
3
If the people who govern us believe that no gun restrictions can be imposed then I insist they put their money where their mouths are and allow guns to be openly carried in the White House, in the Congress, and in the Supreme Court, in fact, in every courthouse and place of governance in the nation. Similarly, no corporation can refuse to allow an armed person to enter, no place will be sacrosanct. I insist that the concrete barriers put up to protect lawmakers be also be taken down. I insist that the danger be spread evenly throughout the nation. The idiots who refuse to protect us need to be on the front lines.
13
Your answer to idiocy is greater idiocy??
‘Oh Lord ... ‘
Gail, What rock have you been sleeping under? The ‘armed to the teeth’ lobby and their minions never went away. Never.
3
Would anyone be surprised if the NRA goes to the next level where they would push legislation for teenagers to carry guns to school?
From my viewpoint, the 2nd Amendment gun nuts are capable of insane positions. Say, only good teenager with a gun can stop a bad teenager with a gun. And, only a parent should be able to decide if 16 year-old Jake is mature enough to pack the heat in gym class. Plus, you never know when the grizzly bear might show up at the science lab.
3
Might it be time that Democrats get off their soap box and start strategizing on how they are going to win some elections or are we going to stay the course until95% of all public offices are held by Republicans. News Flash, Democrats, the gun debate is over, we lost and from the looks of things we are going to continue to loose.
3
So far there are 1,800 happy Wisconsinites under the age of 10 with the right to put their little fingers on the trigger, several less than a year old.
An old hunter's scam. Buy tickets and licenses and tags for your unborn, the dead and old lost Uncle Harry too. But, freedom.
2
And that extra deer strapped to the hood of your car? "Oh, but my six month old son shot that one." And so it goes.
It's really simple. The "right" to own a machine to kill a lot of people in a hurry at a distance is not as important as the people's right to live.
The right to life does not just refer to the unborn, it also applies to their families, without whom they could not survive.
There is ample evidence that trigger happy people with tempers are dangerous, particularly abusers. No woman is safer when her abuser has a gun, even if she has one.
The chaos with a lot of amateurs shooting in a public place is a hindrance to proper law enforcement, as many police have told us.
Armories of dozens or hundreds of guns and many thousands of rounds of ammunition are not about self defense. They are about imposing on other people's freedoms, particularly the freedom to live.
Guns increase the chance that someone will hurt someone else, by intent or accident, out of rage, prejudice, or blindness to what is really going on.
I'm not against personal responsible gun ownership. But I am against removing any and all restraints to owning efficient killing machines to anyone who has demonstrated that they are not safe out. Abuse is always worse with a gun. Criminals should not be able to get guns.
This is not "sacred". The Jesus of the gospels would be the first to condemn this.
8
Gail, oh Lordy, the gun thing back to bite us! Let's start by repealing and replacing the Presidential Press Secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders. She's a teller of alternative facts. We are still talking guns here in America after 1789's obsolete Second Amendmen to the Constitutiion? As an American who has lived through our wars from WWII, Korea, Vietnam, into the unspeakable present wars initiated by our 43rd President, George W. Bush in the pyroclastic Middle East, I am hoping and praying for the abolition of the Second Amendment. Just sayin' Wishing Gabbrielle Giffords, our former Congresswoman from
Arizona, and her dear husband, Mark Kelly, happiest holidays - a wonderful Christmas and Hannukah. She is one of our greatest American heroines. Dare I wish Sarah Huckabee Sanders a lump of coal in her plump stocking? You betcha.
4
"The bill’s opponents, all Democrats, lost every argument ..."
I would correct this to 'lost every vote'. Having more votes doesn't make you right.
4
“I remember where I was the day I got the news that Gabby Giffords had been shot,” mused King. I'll bet he and ALL of his republican cohorts were absolutely crushed when news that she didn't die hit them. After all she is a democrat and in the eyes of republicans everywhere the only good democrat is a dead democrat.
2
I never take seriously the principles Republicans claim to stand for.
It is just justification for what they want in a given situation.
And it is completely ignored when it goes against what they want.
3
My only comment is this, rebuplicans are always about State rights until it doesn't fit their agenda. Guns are dangerous if in the wrong hands. States should have the right to implement stricter laws than the federal govt. That's how it has always been so, this is ridiculous, just on Principle.
4
I now live in a country where the votes of the majority do not count and only the opinions of those with vast sums of money can be heard. The USA has become a certified banana republic. All of the other rights and freedoms supposedly guaranteed by the constitution have been subordinated to a corrupt interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. The same zealots elevating the almighty interpretation of the 2nd Amendment as an open floodgate for even the most criminal and insane among us to freely carry military grade, rapid fire/high magazine capacity firearms, are willing to throw in the trashcan any and all of our other rights.
The pervasive presence of guns in a society that has been debased by a corporate greed that has isolated, alienated and picked the pockets of 99% of the populace has turned back the clock to the stone age. Everyone carrying guns openly or concealed has essentially returned us to the stone age where the only law was whoever had the biggest club prevailed until someone with a bigger club or the ability to stealthily sneak into Mr. Big Club's cave and bash his skull in came along. The horrible difference is Mr. Big Gun can kill hundreds in minutes.
I'm glad my my relatives who risked their lives in a couple of world wars are not alive to see what has become of the country they fought for.
4
Why is it that in education and healthcare the federal government say states should be able to control policy and laws but when it comes to guns the federal government supersedes states rites? My state doesn't want you to conceal carry when you visit Massachusetts...why should GOP Congresspeople in Texas tell us we have to allow it.
2
When the NRA is footing the bill, all of a sudden federal overreach is desirable.
3
If I remember the Giffords shooting there was at least one person who had a gun. Guess what: he didn't shoot for fear of hitting innocent people.
Steve King should take his guns and move to Iraq where he would need them. Not in America. I can't image what the NYPD is going to do when not only the gun runners give guns to anyone, but to have to worry about all these gun-toting people in NYC. How many cops will get shot when they can't tell who the really bad guy is?
3
Why isn't everyone writing about the terrible tax cuts for the wealthy that Trump and Co are pushing? Millions of people are going to be adversely affected if this thing passes. Everyone should be writing about what a dreadful bill this is! Guns can wait. If this monstrous bill passes, the only people who will have money left to buy guns are billionaires, anyway.
3
Greed trumps country.
1
Just wondering, does Louis Gomhert also think it is okay for people from Concealed Carry states to tote their weaponry onto airplanes or the Halls of Congress now? Not sure why the NRA is letting those venues be exempt from the thrills, excitement and primal joy of hunting.
5
Trip Advisor and other travel websites offer facts on everything a family looking for a vacation spot in the US might need. I think they should also include the reminder that, "in this state, many of your fellow diners in that charming 2-star bistro may be concealing handguns".
2
So, why didn't any of the Republican congressmen at the baseball game have a gun, even though a few of them were vocal supporters of gun rights?
It's simple. They understood that their safety would be at risk if they were running around with guns when the police arrived. After all, how would the police be able to separate the "good guys with guns" from the bad guy? All the police would see are guys with guns.
The House Judiciary Committee just voted to make it impossible for a state to always keep people convicted of violent offenses from carrying concealed weapons.
This bears repeating:
The House Judiciary Committee just voted to make it impossible for a state to always keep people convicted of violent offenses from carrying concealed weapons.
And one more time because it is the most important message in the column:
The House Judiciary Committee just voted to make it impossible for a state to always keep people convicted of violent offenses from carrying concealed weapons.
The last two mass shootings in heartland voter territory - at a country western music concert and in a small town Texas church - couldn't override the expertly-marketed fear tactics of the NRA and the complicit politicians in its pocket.
Heartland NRA and alt-right supporters are going to have to figure out for themselves that they've put all they hold dear at risk - we can't do it for them. They're not listening to us.
2
I generally love your stuff, Gail, but when I saw, "Depends on the year," at the end, it worried me. I'm not ready to say that facilitating mass murder flows in with one tide and out with the next, to and fro, in a circle game. Somehow, this is little like saying there are two sides to everything, and it's all "she said, he said."
I know you didn't mean it that way, as the rest of the column shows. But I am afraid that Trump and the Republicans are wearing us down to a kind of cynicism that may make us less willing to act. I know that it's important to keep our sense of humor, but maybe we should tell funny stories about going door to door to oust Republicans.
1
Remember, these are the same people that eschew the federal goverment imposing laws on states, and at the local level. That is, they oppose federal intervention until they don't. Rick Santorum jumped into a painful battle between a spouse and his in-laws on an end-of-life decision. He asked for federal legislation. States are quick to get rid of local zoning, if it impacts fracking. Here, we have the federal goverment restricting the ability of state governments to protect their own people. Yup--anti-federal intervention--until they aren't.
1
Years ago, when I lived in Oklahoma, the state passes a concealed carry law. A neighbor of mine went through the course to get a permit. He failed several times, but eventually got a permit with the help of a friendly instructor (his words). In the conversation with him and another neighbor where he was telling us about this, he said that he was now carrying his pistol on his walks around the neighborhood (a rather sedate residential area near the university). He then pulled out the small pistol from his pants pocket and mindlessly pointed the loaded gun at me while describing why he liked it so much. ("Easy to conceal" was a leading reason.) I carefully stepped out of the line of fire and asked him to lower it. There should be restrictions on who gets to carry a loaded weapon, and they should be genuinely enforced.
5
The anti-American GOP are in power and on a tear - to tear down democracy to make America only for the rich. In the case of guns, the rich weapons industry. This is a lost cause for thinking Americans, but I laud the Democrats for trying. There are hundreds of millions of assault weapons in the hands for many Americans that are mentally deficient, and/or violent by nature. America has become a dangerous place to live. But then, no worries, the GOP tax cut for the rich will create such poverty and sickness the world has never seen that it won't really matter. Maybe they'll finally be happy then.
Driving a car is not enshrined in the Constitution. Driving cars cause more deaths per year than carrying a gun. Yet a driver's license from New York is valid in any of the other 49 states. Why, then, should the same not be true for a gun license? The Full Faith and Credit clause (Article 4 Section 1) of the Constitution should prevail here.
1
mikecody...I don't think you can pose this question until you investigate all 50 states to determine if they have requirements that must be satisfied before you can get a drivers license. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing many states take their driving requirements more seriously than their gun-carrying requirements, therefore driving across state lines with another state's drivers license does not need to be regulated.
1
MJmich...I am not even getting into how well any state regulates either guns or cars, but am asking a deeper Constitutional question. If the various states must give "Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State." then how can they justify not accepting a license for another state, no matter how granted?
A gun owner can use their weapon in a different state, with different gun laws and insurance companies will cover the liability? I don't think so Jethro.
1
I've GOT to protect myself. I'm buying a gun - RIGHT NOW! (Before they're all gone.)
Since the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, I propose handing out weapons to everybody in the visitors' galleries of the Senate, House, and Supreme Court so that if a bad guy should show up the assembled citizens could efficiently protect our leaders.
Furthermore, it would be a good idea to mount a campaign to arm all young Black males so that they could better protect themselves.
Finally, passing out assault rifles to every airplane passenger would certainly make our skies safer! What terrrorist wouldn't think twice when confronted with 200 guns aimed at him?
2
Here's a thought, Gail:
If every American has a right to bear arms wherever and however they please, maybe you're attacking the problem from the wrong direction. My reading of the Constitution suggests that having game laws would not be unconstitutional. I suggest that Americans be allowed to kill each other only during a designated open season. Killing someone out of season could be severely punished, but the right to bear arms would still be upheld.
Whaddya think?
1
Oh my goodness sake ... I love gun articles posted by women that clearly know nothing about guns. She doesn't even know the difference between "concealed carry" and "constitutional carry." Or the statistics about the likelihood of dying from a gun ... oh my. I'm so sorry America.
1
Another anti woman poster. If he has so many more brains than I do I can tell you where he keeps them, an organ I don’t have, right?
"In December 2012, a gunman walked into Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, and killed 20 children, six adults, and himself. Since then, there have been at least 1,518 mass shootings, with at least 1,715 people killed and 6,089 wounded as of October 2017." - VOX article, 5 Nov 2017.
My opinion - your federal representatives shouldn't get to decide that you can bring your out-of-state approved 'concealed carry' to my state. Just stay home. As for 'constitutional carry' proponents, they believe in the wild west and should hop in the nearest time machine.
1
What a lovely tableau: The King family sitting around the Christmas tree in their matching flannel PJs opening up their matching assault rifles. Just warms the cockles of your heart, doesn't it? In real life, in my coastal California town, a mother gave her teenage sons handguns for Christmas. They decided to go out the next day and rob the local branch of the bank they'd visited with their mother many times over the years. They were recognized by a teller and arrested within hours. Unfortunately, stupidity is not against the law. It ought to be against the law to be stupid and in congress, though.
2
So let me see if I understand the NRA's logic:
- If a madman throws a hand grenade into a crowd and kills innocent citizens, then every innocent citizen going forward should carry hand grenades.
- If members of drug cartel use Uzi machine guns to mow down innocent bystanders to a drug deal, then innocent bystanders starting today should carry Uzi machine guns.
- If a psychotic lion tamer uses a pride of angry lions to kill innocent citizens at the circus, then all innocent citizens should henceforth be accompanied by a pride of angry lions.
Let's just hope that we don't have a crazed commercial pilot flying his Airbus into the center of a large city. That might make it cost prohibitive for the average guy to thereafter properly arm himself.
4
With so many guns in the country we ought to be the safest place on Earth. But we're not. I remember someone saying insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Some guy named Einstein, I think. But what would he know?
3
Maybe I've been inhaling the general miasma of conspiracy theories, but I wonder if this another Putin-led conspiracy to destroy U.S.? And without losing a single Russian life, or spending an unnecessary ruble. Get the people to vote for a lunatic who is in Putin's pocket. Get Congress to vote for a tax bill that will impoverish the majority of Americans and send the country into a real Depression. And get them to allow criminals and lunatics to carry concealed weapons, so they can make war on each other.
Hey, my theory is no crazier than the ones you see on right-wing websites...
1
Liberals are missing the boat on concealed carry permits. Aside from a few, literally a few, incidents in a country with a population of 320 million, people who have a concealed carry permit are not the ones who are committing the crimes. These people are registered, the authorities know about them. It's the liberal gun grabber's dream law if they could get it passed. All gun owners registered and known to the authorities. Whadda you complainin' about???
As for a nationwide law that allows people to carry a gun from one state to the next, I'm all in favor of that. You see, northern Yankees, we have hurricanes down here in the Southern states and hurricanes destroy houses. They tear off the roof and break the building into little pieces, scattering the contents all over the countryside. So, whenever people down here evacuate they bring their guns with them so if in the unfortunate event their house is destroyed or damaged looters cannot take the guns. During Katrina people did that but the cops took it upon themselves to stop and confiscate those guns from people who were trying to be conscientious and safe.
1
You don't have enough to worry about. "northern yankee" ?? oh lord. I grew up in Texas with a Marine dad. He would have laughed in your face.
1
Oh yeah? I was born in Texas. As for your dad, at least he has a sense of humor.
It doesn't matter "whether it's a real video, the threat is real." Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor unless it's politically expedient to do so." Moses, updated by the Ten Commandments judge, who can't quite remember if he dated teen girls when he was in his thirties, but is certain if he did, he first asked their mothers.
Let's not even try to parse out "Thou shalt not kill."
1
I love it! They all scream "states' rights" until states do something that they don't like and then they want to federal law to override it. Why does it seem that the hypocrites make camp in the Republican Party?
3
We seem to be devolving to a Hobbesian state of nature, "...where every man is enemy to every man, the same consequent to the time wherein men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them withal. In such condition there is no place for industry... no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."
Thomas Hobbes
3
The second amendment must be expunged, eradicated, erased, disposed of. It does only harm in the modern world.
1
Mrs Collins attempt at humor at the expense of those who like to hunt and aspire to teach their children the responsibility that comes with the pastime leaves me wondering what other facts she chooses to misconstrue in order to appeal to those that share her desire to do away with guns and those whose culture she chooses to disregard. For those who would be interested in the truth of Wisconsins updated policy in regards to young hunters I have included the language form the Wisconsin department of natural resources. "It's easier than ever to introduce someone new to hunting in Wisconsin. Anyone can now obtain a mentored only hunting license and hunt without first completing a hunter education course. He or she must be accompanied by a licensed hunter (mentor), hunt within arm's reach of the mentor and follow other rules. Such mentored hunts remove barriers to hunting yet still allow people to safely experience hunting in a highly controlled manner." Honestly her drivel makes me question my subscription to the NYT.
I'm from Wisconsin. There is absolutely no reason that people should be able to hunt before passing hunter's safety. I have used a gun since age 8 and passed my course at 12 before hunting with my dad as a teen. Though Gail may not have any practical experience in this area, I am also at a loss to understand why Walker passed this law. I needed the extra few years to properly respct guns and the responsibility they carry.
58
Like College Student, I learned to shoot at any early age from my Granddad, taking aim at beer bottles on fence posts with a Winchester .22. I accompanied him into the woods during small game season. But he would never permit me to use or carry a gun until I had taken and passed a hunter safety course in 1965 at age 12.
Despite the fact that WWII ended only a generation ago, and that "playing war" with fake guns, was a common pastime of youthful boys, I can honestly say that we never thought of using our real guns for anything other than hunting, mainly because many of our parents and grandparents (including my Granddad, who earned a Purple Heart at Anzio) had war time experience and knew first hand the mortal damage guns could render, and passed on a reverence and respect that many modern era owners don't seem to possess.
The idea today that guns are necessary for "protecting one's freedom" is a perversion of the use intended by the constitution, and a sales and marketing tool of the gun manufacturer lobby. I believe this because it is what my Granddad would say, were he still here today.
11
That was not my experience and there was no hunter safety program when I was a child That said we had no problems with gun safety because my dad and uncle were present for the instruction..
OK, the President is either a 'liar', or is 'delusional' - either way, we are sunk.
On topic though: Recent report that a man leaving a restaurant obviously very drunk was approached be several good citizens who wanted to keep him from driving. The 'man' shot and killed one who rushed over to help. I think he was arrested but can't be sure. The 'law' as the GOP writes it will protect him as he was simply exercising his Amend 2 rights.
Quoting Gemli: "Guns are required by people who are afraid, and fear is often irrational. See the connection? So the irrationally fearful need guns, and that means guns must be available at all times, in huge numbers, to everyone. If psychopaths get their hands on them, well, it’s an omelet-egg sort of thing. Gotta expect some breakage."
Our rabid politicians are also insane.
3
"There’s an extremely popular video of the average citizen drawing his concealed weapon and shooting a crazed gunman" was how I first read it. I'm sure it exists somewhere
Why not issue a gun for every man, woman and child? That will make the NRA and Donald happy and the rest of us can act like it's the Wild West where street justice prevailed. Then once we kill off another 100,000 or 200,000 people maybe Congress and the NRA will wake up and face reality.
1
Huh. I could have sworn these guys believed sincerely in states' rights.
1
Make it legal to conceal carry in Congress and the White House and their home office. Watch how fast they changed their minds.
2
Really it is all connected. Nationwide concealed carry will mean more women packing heat which will leave male media honchos less heated.
Frustrated libidinous television hosts and Hollywood stars will take to sublimated their frustrated desires shooting off weapons at gun ranges, which racket the North Koreans will hear from across the Pacific and immediately decide that the invasion is starting, at which point it will get interesting.
1
And that makes me safer...how?
1
The republican scorched earth policy. Embrace Trump and every single thing he stands for. For all time.
Dismantle government from within by using attack dogs like Pruitt and Mulvaney. Give everybody guns and kick back at the Cibolo Creek Ranch or Mar a Lago to watch the result.
Install Pence, or Ryan, or some other true believer in The High Tower.
I guess I have kind of a bad temper when I get stuck in traffic.
Now why in the world can't I buy a tank? That's got to be covered by the 2nd Amendment. I'd get to work a lot quicker and could blow off some steam on the way in!
And what about hand grenades? Napalm?
Let's not stop just at assault rifles and other military weapons.
Why the arbitrary limits?
1
I can't wait for your take on the State of the Union Address in January! I will read your column instead of watching it.
YEAH THATS ROUGH:
Or A Hard Call To Make?...
It seems one mans Freedom is anothers Nightmare and in generalities its easy to find arguments for one side against the other as in truth both arguments are good but some dont hold water either?
Yeah other Nations have lessor gun crime but they dont have our freedoms to speak out either.
And how many dont list honor killings, Or suicides or even simple robbery as say a 'gun crime' but just an offence.
After more then a few years in Law Enforcement if i have to go into a 'Dark Room', I'd rather have an armed civilian there with a deer rifle, Then say an armed perp carrying both a 9mm and chuging a headfull of Vodka an Pills.
To be sure the one anti I am against is we really do need more moderation and respect for each other in this Nation as thats sadly lacking regardless of what political affiliation each of us are!.
TO CLOSE:
Yeah i know some Cops are against concealed carry but the Cheifs who are crying for this dont wanna lose the pay bonuses the Politicians promised an the guys in traffic who havent worked the 'Hot Areas' in 10 years dont know what is going on now out there on the streets either.
Granted concealed carry isnt always appropriate and i dont carry my gun 'every day' OK, But I have it ready as a back up just in case even tho I'm retired today, But sadly it seems crime itself - isnt retired - and a nation with no rights isnt a Nation at all just a nightmare waiting to happen!.
C. Edward Royce,.
In the 1990s, the gun debates were hot. Conservatives were infuriated that Clinton had pushed two federal gun-control bills through Congress. 1993, Brady Bill, 1994, Assault Weapons Ban. Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's leader, published his screed against "jack-booted government thugs."
Between 1994 and 1997, 14 states passed "right-to-carry" laws; before that, only 10 states had such laws.
The NRA sharpened partisan politics in the US, and we live with the results. Voters (and Judicial Committee members) who defend the "right-to-carry" see federal agents as intrusive thugs opposed to USA self-reliance.
Here's a story delivered by Tanya Metaska, an NRA rep, in the mid-90's:
"This past summer, 15 – 20 armed men, IRS and BATF agents, burst into the rural Pennsylvania home of Mr. and Mrs. Harry Lamplugh. The family cooperated … but cooperation did not cool the intruders’ wrath. One held a machine gun in their faces. Another uttered a racial slur. One emptied vial after vial of cancer medicine, crushed it on the bathroom floor, and confiscated cancer treatment records. Another stomped a pet cat to death. The Lamplughs are gun show promoters. BATF’s purpose here seems clear: reduce or eliminate lawful commerce in a lawful product through intimidation and brutish intrusion. I maintain it is the right role for the NRA to speak forcefully when federal agents rough-up cancer patients …"
This helps explain today's pro-gun, anti-DC Trump government.
It's pretty clear that President Trump is no longer the only person in Washington who is unhinged.
2
I long for the days when we could read about the dog on the car roof.
2
Oops....you left out the part on the first hand about Sen. Franken. Seems to me all our offending pols should do the right thing and resign. Franken thinks his errant sense of humor is exculpatory enough. Out with all of them!
Maybe we could bring back Hawthorne's "Scarlet Letter." Only this time the red "A" could stand for...well, you choose it. I can't type what mine would be.
1
When I woke up on 11/9/16 I knew it was over. Trump's base, the NRA, was in charge. Guns are all about personal power. They settle arguments.
Eat, drink and be merry, my friends, for tomorrow your ears could very well be part of your neighbor's trophy necklace.
1
What happened to the NRA I remember in the 1950s? I am referring to the NRA that published the American Rifleman that devoted much print to teaching firearms safety to kids that were 8 years old.
4
They still do that.
The NRA has been infiltrated by space aliens who are raising an army of unsuspecting Americans to conquer our still inhabitable planet. Some NRA members are double agents for the resistance movement striving to make Earth uninhabitable.
1
The NRA took a respectable sportsman organization and filled it with the likes of coward Wayne LaPierre, draft dodger faker. He got rich making it an arm of the gun industry. And he doest care if your kid is shredded by military weaponry in the hands of the mentally ill or a terrorist because the NRA wrote the laws for our spineless congress to make it and keep it that way.
FYI: most folks in the NRA support sensible background check legislation. But they don't advertise that.
Take the number of deaths per day. Divide by 365. A few years ago, the Brady Coalition did that for 5 years, and came up with:
90
90 deaths per day, 62 of them suicides, 2 more accidents, one "undetermined'.
A gun is something that will kill its owner most of the time. I believe the rest of the deaths are often drunken brawls within families, within neighborhoods.
Go America.
What about the right to live in a quiet safe world?
7
About half of counties in the US had zero murders in 2014 and 90% of those counties had a Republican majority in the 2016 election. 88% of counties had 0 to 5 murders and 86% of those counties had a Republican majority. Of the top 25 counties with the most murders 23 had a Democratic majority, some being in Red states. It is a 'safe' world, depending upon where you live.
American exceptionalism again. Number 1 in the OECD (perhaps in the world) for gun deaths. An intelligent alien from another galaxy would view us as one of the more backward civilizations on this planet. (For lots of other reasons as well ... but that's for another opinion piece).
9
Make it a birthright to give a gun to every man, woman and child in this
country. Might not need birth control or Planned Parenthood.
2
I increasingly feel we're living in - ie, the USA has become - the Insane Asylum of the World. Up is down and nothing makes sense anymore.
And some of the sickest patients have been put in charge, while the orderlies, who could exert some control, are just whistling past the graveyard while counting their chickens. They have no shame, they only have enablers with fat wallets. There is no real morality, only the semblance of justice.
My parents, may they rest in peace, would not recognize the country we have become.
12
While I can't dispute the point you're making here, I have to take exception to the header. "Oh, Lord, Now the Gun Thing's Back"? Sorry. dear, it never left. Perhaps there were other things more immediately attracting our attention. But this issue hasn't gone away...and it never will. At one time I might have said "And it never will--unless and until we vote into Congress some people who care more about the people they are elected to serve than they do about the entities that put up the money." But it's obvious that ain't gonna happen.
Abe Lincoln was wrong: government of the people, by the people, and for the people DID vanish from the face of the earth...it was replaced with government of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich.
Any wonder there are people who don't vote?
4
The 'gun things back' because Ms Collins and other gun ban advocates are disingenuous. Gun deaths are extremely low in high gun ownership and lax law counties throughout the US and in VT and Maine and high in poor minority neighborhoods with tough laws. The military failing to report individuals who should not have guns is a federal failure of existing gun law. '347 mass shootings' ok, how many of those were in low crime counties and states with high gun ownership vs high crime minority neighborhoods? Blatant bias and implicit racism by progressives against minorities infuses the gun ban debate. Progressives don't trust law enforcement, yet want them to have guns To keep them out of the hands of all those gun owners in VT? But not Chicago which is awash in guns? Ms Collins should check out the safest counties in the US, a high percentage have high gun ownership rates. She probably has done so already and enjoys the view from her vacation house, free of crime worries as she scribbles her next anti gun column.
1
I'd ask which states Las Vegas and a certain small town in Texas are in, but would prefer to observe that you'd have a point, if it weren't for the remarkable number of mass murders and gun suicides in rural America.
What IS it with white guys?
You are repeating a lie.
The gun lobby and their supporters (that's you, in your safe space) is the reason that guns are so easy to get in Chicago.
If it as you say - some places are so much less safe than others, why do you support the NRA in selling more guns there? The gun manufacturers profit from gun sales, but what is your excuse?
It seems to me that the issue is simple. What states are most likely to have loose concealed gun carry laws? Rural Republican states. And which are likely to have tighter concealed gun carry laws? Higher density Democratic states. The Republican plan is to see how many Democrats they can get off the rolls by getting shot and killed. "If you can't beat 'em, kill 'em."
1
Up until October 1, 2017, Stephan Paddock was "a good guy with a gun". Actually, an arsenal... The US has lost its mind about firearms. It is clear congress will do nothing but appease their corporate owners and the gun lobby while shilling a fairy tale about making us safer.
9
Americans are getting first hand experience of how Romans felt when the Republic collapsed.
American democracy is dead and has only to be interred by a Republican proclamation that the U.S. Constitution has been formally abolished..
4
No, not "Depends on the year." It depends on the party. I don't see the GOP fixing anything. They are the party of chaos, obfuscation, and fabrication.
3
My first year in college, there was a guy who roomed across the hall from me in the freshmen dorm. He had no roommate--he paid double the room rate so he could avoid the experiences of having a roomie. I discovered ... it was a shocker to me ... that he kept a loaded .38 S&W revolver in a desk drawer. I reported the matter to the dean of men. The guy across the hall was out of the dorm and out of school before sunset the day of my report.
That was 1962. Today, five and half decades later, I take it for granted that the vast majority of college students pack heat in their book packs, in their cars and pickup trucks, and to class. I don't call this "progress."
8
In the 1980's at LSU I brought my shotgun from home and kept it in my dorm room for a couple of weeks because another student had invited me on a hunt. I was discreet and it was cased but there was no university rule or law against it there at that time, but then there wasn't the "gun culture" then with idiots pushing boundaries by flaunting assault rifles in public.
My parents and I came to this country in 1958, a time when America represented a serious breath of fresh air for them. My parents thrived, experiencing a freedom and opportunities unavailable to them before coming to NYC. I received a sterling public education as well as a graduate education in a private university that did not indebt me for life.
The fresh air, literal and figurative, is leaving. In its wake, there is a putrid stink about the land. Most frighteningly, a huge chunk of the electorate is breathing in this rotten miasma and mistaking it for violets.
My parents are no longer with me. I know they would be terrified by what is transpiring here. And I know they would be saddened to know that I and my grown children are scanning the globe, wondering if the time has come to look for another place to live, one where lies are not confused with truth, where the air is still breathable and even invigorating.
9
While your fears are concerning, the majority of Americans have never had to pickup a weapon (firearm) to defend themselves or their country. I am a 20 year veteran of the United States Armed Forces with a combat tour 14 months in Iraq. new years eve 2016 my family and I were at a celebration in town oriented for families to celebrate new years, my oldest son who also is in the military was home on leave. A gang banger in a local bar down the street decided he wanted to shoot up the place over a spilt drink, shots rang out and 4 people were dead including a military veteran who was unarmed acting as security. there are many instances in this country of good guys who like myself have been trained for years with weapons, coming to the aid of people in situations like this all over the country. do the research and you will find that crime rates actually have dropped in areas where citizens are allowed to conceal carry, I have a non resident permit from the Great state of Arizona and cant Carry in my home state of California. this bill would eliminate all the red tape and allow those of us who have the training to carry through out the United States. Who do you want next to you a trained soldier or a criminal in the street who has no regard for your family?
4
Neither.
1
I don't want anybody armed next to me who isn't a cop, actually, which happens to be the civilian equivalent of that "well-regulated militia," you might want to read about, having been a member of one.
And while I respect your service, the fact of the matter is that pretty much the same yahoos who want guns, guns and more guns are the yahoos who started a stupid, ill-planned, grotesquely expensive and disastrous war that put you in Iraq in the first place.
I have a proposal to amend an amendment. We will replace the right to bear arms with a duty to bear brains. Concealed is legal but must prove ability to use if stopped by the police. Caught in public without any - get sentenced to several years in kindergarten with no voting rights until fully rehabilitated.
4
I'm sorry to say that if this law passes, I would be in favor of a Stand Your Ground Law here in California, specifically addressing the problem of dangerous visitors from other states. We should be allowed to disarm threatening strangers walking through our peaceful towns and cities, using force if necessary, to protect ourselves. Further, I would be in favor of California standing up a militia to protect our state borders from armed out-of-staters.
Well, okay, the above is not really that serious, at least for now, and would have the political support of practically no one here. At present.
But I don't think it's so outlandish to imagine something like this coming up if a mass gun murder occurs and the perpetrator is from out of state. Don't come here packing, Mr. Gohmert.
2
Funny, but seriously.
One of the issues that may not be clear to some is that some states such as Illinois have fairly extensive concealed carry training requirements, while others are weaker. Kinda like passing the bar in an easy state and expecting to practice in California. So this law may be to help out those who have easy state laws at the expense of citizens of states who are concerned about gun safety and gun owners who went through great effort to conceal with RESPONSIBILITY and CITIZENSHIP.
I'm not a gun owner, but I get it were I to live in certain rural parts.
1
Wow, an article so false and misleading I couldn’t read past the first paragraph. Everyone who buys a gun from a dealer MUST pass a background check, the background checks for concealed permits are much more extensive. No one prohibited from gun ownership can legally carry a concealed weapon in ANY STATE.
If someone legally owns a gun and passed the training and background checks for a concealed permit, why should that permit expire at the state line?
4
Because of "states' rights". Republicans time and again call for states to exercise their own decision making, free from the Federal involvement. OK then, if the state doesn't want everyone to have an assault rifle that simply wants an assault rifle, then the duly elected officials should be able to make their own laws to that effect. Works both ways, see?
Well you should have read the article then.
If California makes a gun owner take training to legally own a weapon and you want to waltz in from Louisiana or some place where laws are non existent, then the NRA will in effect then saddle CA with paying for Louisiana's next lunatic who blows his top in California and kills citizens there.
A false and misleading comment. Many gun dealers sell guns without background checks by masquerading as private sellers. It's easy to do, thanks to the NRA/ALEC.
To a certain degree, Upcoming Alabama election could be a litmus test for the country, esp the blue states. Should Roy Moore win, it’s time to seriously consider seceding from the union as it will be yet another indication of typical red state voter priorities.
Until how long can we allow to drag ourselves down with them ? What are we getting back in return? To name a few: underfunded infrastructure investment we desperately need esp in mass transportation; fear of their lax gun laws potentially creating a havoc in our backyards; high education cost for our children while their 10 year old kids get gun permits; regressive social and environmental policies that drags us back in time instead of moving us forward.
Blue ‘donor’ states provide significant financial support for these ‘flyover’ states (by the way, which is set to increase with passage of Republican tax cuts) but have disproportionately less influence in shaping national policy and discourse. Our Electoral process works against us and is not likely to change.
To paraphrase perennial Repub favorite Ayn Rand, “When you see a man casting pearls without getting even a pork chop in return--it is not against the swine that you feel indignation...”
2
No problem IK. We 'flyover' states will just keep the meat and grain and you can eat your 'financial support'. guess we can see how that turns out.
So when it comes to guns, conservatives no longer care about states' rights and instead, when they think they can get Congress to vote their way, are fine with the federal government imposing a one-size-fits-all law.
4
Guns don't kill. Politicians do.
People don't start wars. Politicians do.
People don't fail the nation: It is invariably politicians who fail the people.
Whether Ahmadinejad, Trump, Salman or Netanyahu, the sole motivation and driving force behind every decision is the gaining and retaining of power. That explains everything. That is history in a nutshell.
4
The GOP is off the rails.
Another year or two of mass shootings, and the tally will be greater than the number of misbegotten members of the NRA.
5
The illogical of so many political arguments that we hear from both our leaders and the voters makes me wonder...
What will happen when people who grew up after leaded gasoline was phased-out run the show?
Will they show a better grasp of cause and effect?
Trump, for instance, grew up awfully close to the Grand Central and Utopia parkways... how much lead do you need to ingest to have a Twitter feed that looks like his?
It's a serious question... Tulane University toxicologist Howard W. Mielke demonstrated a close link between crime rates and lead. Other studies confirmed the link. To summarize: Crime rates increased as leaded gasoline use increased and started to decline, rapidly, about 20 years after the phaseout of leaded gasoline began. The idea is that lead poisoning causes all sorts of mental issues that lead to crime, including cognitive deficits and lowered impulse control. Less lead, fewer mental problems.
If lead can cause a massive crime wave, what's so crazy thinking that it could cause massive collective political insanity? Is there anyone who is willing to say that Congress, collectively, seems entirely mentally stable?
Given the ages of our leaders, maybe 60 years after the lead phase-out, politicians and voters will be less nuts... That would probably around 2035.
So there's hope for reasonable gun legislation sometime around 2040.
Think we'll still be around?
1
When will people recognized that the fealty expressed by the republican lawmaker in this story is not to the second amendment but to Smith & Wesson's profit and loss statement?
1
The very first words in the Second Amendment are: ""A well regulated Militia, being necessary..." How often do the NRA and its avid followers quote that? For that matter, how often do you hear that qualification of the right to bear arms even in media discussions of EITHER side of the issue?
3
Apparently Congressman King likes to cherry pick. There was an armed individual at the Gifford shooting. His name is Joe Zamudio. He was moments away from shooting the man who wrestled the gun away from the real shooter until someone yelled that the real shooter had been subdued. And when the police show up and see someone with a gun how do they react? How do they know the bad guys from the good guys when they all have guns? The rambos don't seem to think of this when they advocate that everyone should be armed.
1
One example that dovetails nicely with the Trump administration philosophy that a dumb population is a more pliant population: The NRA has worked to cut federal funding for research and data collection about gun issues and safety. Apparently the NRA doesn't want us to see the data about their product. It reminds one of the administrations' removal of climate data on federal websites. If you don't see the facts, it's hard to assess the facts.
I'll bet the vast majority of us have more likely had a connection to a shooting in a family/personal level (like a husband killing his wife's lover, or a child accidentally killing a friend) than anyone in a mass shooting. The single killings are under reported, and the "mass" killings are hyped. Collectively, the number of killings close to home are more serious and warrant our attention.
4
THE FACT IS, as claimed by Mark Shields on NPR news and Nick Kristoff of the NY times, there have been more gun deaths since 1968 than during all of US history. Only opioid deaths have exceeded gun deaths in recent years: opioid deaths are around 56,000 in 2017 and counting, while gun deaths last year were over 32,000. Add to that the deaths of more than 32,000 distracted drivers. Plus more than 32,000 fatal auto deaths and you're still nowhere near the biggest killer of all, smoking cigarettes, which is estimated to kill 1,200 in the US per DAY, meaning that 438,000 will die per year. From causes related to smoking cigarettes. Just by the numbers we have statistical proof that the top killer in the US is smoking cigarettes, followed by opioid deaths, followed by gun deaths that are roughly on a par with deaths caused by distracted drivers, drivers under the influence and gun deaths. All five of those causes: smoking tobacco, opioid deaths, gun deaths, distracted driver deaths and auto accident deaths, are public health problems--medical problems--that cause the most loss of life. That is not to mention those involved in nonfatal cigarette smoking, gunshot wounds, and nonfatal opioid, distracted driver, drivers under the influence and drivers involved in nonfatal accidents. We have several medical emergencies that cause huge numbers of deaths and injuries in the US. And yet the murderous GOPpers insist on knowingly inflicting more gun deaths on US citizens. MURDERERS!
3
The 2017 population of the USA is 324,600,000. 397 persons have been killed in mass shootings this year. The NRA has more than 5 million members. I don't know if any of the victims were also members of that association, famous for its lobbying and sway over our legislators. That works out to a national membership of approximately 1.5%.
One can easily see why they are such a strong lobbying group. As a matter of fact, at times they are so strong you'd think they held a gun to the heads of certain, targeted legislators!
3
More guns make us safer. In that case, we should start arming children at birth. Yes, indeed, every child born in the US should leave the hospital or birthing suite with a blanket, a birth certificate, a pistol and a right to carry permit. No questions asked.
As the infant becomes a toddler, he or she should be given a bigger gun. More suited to their new stature as walking, potty trained humans. They can be strapped with a gun belt to wear to day care. Just let any of the other 2 or 3 year olds try to snatch a crayon or grab an extra sheet of drawing paper. Since the adults will all be armed and ready as well, there won't be any need to ask questions when one of the teachers or several of the children are shot. It just happens. It wasn't because they had guns. Of course not.
And let's not neglect the elementary and middle school kids. Think of the savings on metal detectors. No need. Every child has his or her personal gun that they wear constantly and maybe a rifle or two in a locker somewhere. No more fist fights, no more scuffles in the hallway over who's 'top dog' in the class. No more hair pulling or spit wads. Not for these youngsters. They can shoot any person they don't like and be done with it. It is always the other person's fault. Shouldn't have made me not like you.
High school? But of course. Instead of getting a new dress or use of the car for prom, all the boys and girls get a new automatic rifle. No worries. They will only shoot people they don't like.
1
Mr Gohmert and Mr King are practicing their RED brand's "Proud to be Loud" vigilante legislation to whip-up more voter support and frenzy against the "let's have some meaningful requirements and restrictions" BLUE devils.
Ms Collins may be correct about the House attempting to combine (and thus advance) their assault on state's rights with the Senate's 'symbolic sanity' bi-partisan effort.
The Republican leadership, including Senator Cornyn, have zero commitment to any action that runs counter to their "whip up a frenzy" political war machine. Perhaps, Senator Cornyn's acting skills are so great that he can imagine himself having a moral conscience.
The Republican rank-and-file live their 'life long' lives in self-delusion. If it wasn't so dangerous, it could be merely pathetic.
If Gabby Giffords publicly challenged the President to make a bold move toward greater gun safety, do you think he would make fun of her. Maybe not, although I wouldn't put it past him. Maybe he would just remind her of his ability to shoot people on 5th Avenue without losing his base. What a great leader we have. God bless our President, and God bless the United States of America.
1
Too much of the carnage from gun deaths is hidden, visually, from Americans. When people die from gun violence, we need to blur their faces and show the bodies. Every time, particularly when children are shot.
1
Mass shootings, including little kids getting gunned down at school, are having no effect in enacting sane laws for gun control.
Instead, let’s try appealing to our own selfish interests in terms of individual rights. Here’s a scenario. You check yourself into a hospital for depression and suicidal thoughts. You just need help. They ask you a litany of questions, and you happen to say something about someone that they don’t like. Maybe it’s 3 am and you haven’t slept for a day or two. They can’t really figure out what might happen next, so they decide to protect themselves. They can invoke “duty to warn.” It’s a law and factors into a hospital’s corporate “risk assessment.” You’ll be put onto the “prohibited carrier” list for weapons (loss of a civil right), and there’s really nothing you can do about it. You can challenge it in court, but you will probably lose.
I have seen this happen to people who pose no threat to others. It is relatively rare, but is traumatic and can be a devastating stigma for both careers and families.
The problems here, as with actual shootings, are that our gun laws are too lax, there are far too may guns in the country, and people are living in fear. Fear makes people act irrationally.
Is it irresponsible to discuss these issues? Mass shooters are probably not reading the NYT or checking themselves into hospitals for depression – they don’t believe they need any help.
This topic merits some serious investigative journalism.
1
It is absolutely amazing to me that the response to gun violence in America is.....more guns. Well as you watch mass murder after mass murder, as you watch the suicide rate rise, as the streets become more like the wild west of old, and as more guns fall into the wrong hands, keep telling yourself that guns don't kill. In my area, two gun shops were burglarized recently. It took the thieves a total of like 2 minutes total to smash the cases and steal dozens of guns.. None of the guns have been recovered. No one has even asked "How was this so easy to do?" Might as well have left them out on tables on the sidewalk out front. And the day after Thanksgiving was the biggest day for gun sales and background checks ever. Helping to make that day deserve it's Black Friday name. One thing is certain. The next tragedy is right around the corner. And the recipients of those Black Friday purchases will be giddy with delight on Christmas morning.
1
It's amazing to me that the neo-Confederates want the Federal government to be subservient to the States in every respect except concealed carry. It shows the lack of internal logic that characterizes most of their thought.
How about requiring a certificate of competency for gun purchasers?
1
Ha! In this country, you don't even have to be competent to be president.
1
I think there should be Open Carry allowed on the floor of Congress with nobody being restricted from carrying guns there - including those people in the Gallery. Everybody should have guns? Then We The People should be able to carry them inside the Halls of Congress.
They want guns? We should give them guns. In Congress. All the time. Get rid of those checkpoints, Capitol Police. Then....have at it.
2
from the far corners of outlandishness: may be, if some people know that everyone has a gun, then IF THOSE PEOPLE in the know feel THREATENED they're automatically defending themselves when they shoot the threatening being, BC everyone knows that everyone is ARMED.
So the NRA is ALL about states' rights unless they want to override the actual voters of the states to sell product. Then it is central gov all the way.
In Texas, perennial laughingstock Louie Gohmert wouldn't know his head from a hole in the ground, so by all means let's get him to legislate absolutist gun laws that get Texans killed at a higher rate than other states. Maybe ask Joe Barton, also of Texas- unless he is still too busy emailing pics of his bottom and his truly enormous gut to various girlfriends and can't be bothered.
These are our old hippie dreamers who think they will stop a shooting by going into slow motion reaching expertly for the pistol on their hip and wiping out the bad guy like John Wayne did, the actor who in reality sat out WWI because of "ear problems" much akin to our battle-hardened Donald Trump, tragically sidelined from serving in Vietnam by bone spurs that thankfully healed very soon after his dad and dad's doctor worked some deferment voodoo.
1
Ms Collins -
I wonder how this column would read if congress voted to allow states to not cross-recognize other types of licenses issued by other states.
How would it read if Pennsylvania didn't recognize your New Jersey driver's license? What if a cop could pull you over, arrest you and confiscate your car if you crossed their state line because you're not licensed to drive in their state?
How would it read if your New York marriage license wasn't recognized in Arkansas? How about if they only recognized heterosexual marriage licenses?
What if some states all of a sudden required a license for things you can do freely in your home state? "Do you have a license for _____ (fill in the blank)? Our state requires you to have a license for that.... I'm sorry, you're going to have to come with me."
I bet there would be lots of outrage.
And your link to the mass shootings is truly alarming. Unfortunately it's not really relevant to the bill you are discussing. It doesn't indicate whom among the shooters were licensed to own a gun, to conceal their gun, brought their gun in from another state, where they bought their gun and whether they were prior offenders. The news links included are careful to avoid relevant details; gang shootings, drug deals, drive-by's and other thug activity, while too often involving innocent bystanders, are not exactly the same things as mass shootings.
1
We’re worried about gun-toting men from Alabama and Mississippi driving to California and ignoring that state’s gun control laws, because a Republican Congress funded by the N.R.A. says that they can.
We should try another way to stop gun-loving states from trumping gun-controlling states.
In June of 2016, when a Trump presidency seemed very unlikely, I suggested a solution in commenting on a Gail Collins column:
Maybe we could get our friends in Canada, who tend to be more reasonable than us on just about any issue, to designate the National Rifle Association as a known terrorist organization. Like ISIS or al-Qaeda.
Then, back here in the United States, we could fulfill our international duty as the leader in the fight against terrorist organizations. All sorts of legal doors would open to stop this de facto supplier of military weapons to Americans and immigrants bent on committing murder and mayhem.
Off to Guantanamo for Wayne LaPierre and his N.R.A. cronies! No need for a trial – that’s already established law, thanks to the Republicans.
1
It must be tempting for gun safety proponents to just let the crazies funded by the NRA and other gun merchant organizations put in place all the laws they pretend will keep the US a safer place to live and visit. In the last years of the Republican control of Congress and the Trump administration we can just continue to tally up the number of deaths and injuries by guns including the cop shot by his partner, the toddler who picked up an unsecured gun and shot off her face, the domestic abusers, the so-called hunters who shoot from their suburban porches and hit neighbors walking dogs, etc.
Much in the "guns for all everywhere" debate is ridiculous, but very little is humorous. Thanks for trying, Ms. Collins and for reminding us of the battles in the Republican states like Wisconsin where toddlers can legally carry and kill. There are worse things than a Republican implementation of "trickle-down" economics state-wide like in Brownback's Kansas.
1
All I can say in response to this piece is, "Amen" and "thank you."
2
Gail, I am looking forward to meeting a few Missourians (is that correct?) with an open carry in California, especially here in Oakland? It would mean we here in the land of the Oaks can also walk around with a semi-automatic and drink our lattes and eat tofu tacos. We'll take selfies with them, maybe even become Facebook fake pals.
I don't know how to shoot a semi automatic but I'm buying one if its going to be a required fashion accessory in the Trump Kingdom. Maybe I'll get one gold colored with gold colored bullets? and have it autographed by the Trumpster? maybe even a "Trump Gun" logo - its yuuuge! he can make more millions in licensing the rights.
1
I've been musing about the aftermath of that (bound to come) eight-month-old kid's accidental shooting of a fellow hunter out there in the Wisconsin woods.
Do the courts have to wait until he can speak -- or maybe tell the difference between his left and right hands and use the potty -- before they can decide what to do? How about where he'd be incarcerated and who'd be responsible for diaper changes or nighttime bottles? What about pre-school? And play dates?
Did they even think of these things before they gave him the guns?
6
What can tourists from other countries expect? Are we to rely on the patriotism of gun toting, freedom loving Americans to keep us safe? If not, might I suggest setting up gun rentals at airports, along the lines of rent a car booths, so that we can enjoy all the freedoms of the locals. Would appreciate your comments whether I should also rent a thumb stock. Any info on this would be appreciated. Thanks.
14
Simple. In these times, it is imperative for every person over 10 years old to own and carry a gun at all times. There may be exceptions for conscious objectors; but they must be accompanied by a person carrying a gun.
4
Ms. Collins,
You might be one of those who have the eyes and ears of enough people to explain that "the gun violence problem" is not one but several problems, each of which demands a different solution: The law which addresses the mass shooter will likely be a very different law from the law which addresses the accidental shootings at home which is different from the law meant to address the gun used in street crime. Reducing the rapidity of firing by outlawing automatic weapons and bump stocks might address mass killings (or might not) but smart guns will not address the mass shooter while it might prevent the 8 year old from shooting his brother with his father's gun found at home, whereas, as anyone who's every read "The Friends of Eddie Coyle" will know, guns used by career criminals or thugs of street gangs will remain available to the lawbreakers no matter what laws we may pass.
2
I guess rather than making it safer for people to be “out and about” at any time shopping, but especially now during the holidays - when all these brick & mortar stores need to balance their books - is being made less and less comfortable. Knowledge that a whole bunch of people who couldn’t hit the “broadside of a barn door” just practicing with a handgun might attempt to respond in a stress-filled moment is becoming reason enough to avoid crowds and shop from home. Maybe the brick and mortar businesses want to think about whether more guns makes it safer or just plain unsafe to shop in their business.
7
Firearms ownership, something that was largely taken for granted in Colonial America, when guns were single-shot muzzle loading black powder firearms, has somehow been transformed into a kind of fundamentalist religion whose object of veneration is a technological killing machine giving any person the firepower of a regiment of cooperating embattled farmers. To question this dogma in any way, a right found by SCOTUS in a miracle of interpretation in the terse language of the Second Amendment, is to invite the same sort of impassioned response resulting from questioning the divinity of the baby Jesus. It's similar in its miraculousness to the transformation of the otherworldly preachings of an obscure Galilean mage against wealth, temporal power, the obligations of kinship, and loyalty to the state into the religion of materialistic patriots, prosperous, nationalistic, and family loving. This elevation of the gun has been helped along in no small measure by the firearms industry, something of a commercial miracle.
5
The voters in Alabama are about to show us just how gullible we are as electorate. As a group we have bought into that having a gun in the house makes us safer. Facts state otherwise. Some of us believed in the Birtherism story, Some believe that someone wants to take away their gun. Others believe as Trump just reinvented the welfare queen story. Now Republicans and Trump want you to believe that this tax bill benefits the poor and middle class and hurts the rich, although all studies show the opposite. We are gullible! But the people of Alabama may be the most gullible.
3
Contrary to the last sentence in Gail Collins' column, it does not depend on the year for others to impose their wills about guns on everybody else. For our "good friends" on the Republican side it's every year, month, week, day, hour and minute. There is no respite from the reality-denying obtuseness of the GOP pressure about guns.
If the proposed "concealed carry" legislation passes it should be challenged robustly in court and overturned in the unlikely event that the Democratic Party ever marshals its resources to re-take Congress and the presidency.
5
I agree that the individual states should be able to limit who may carry a concealed handgun, or buy any firearm. However, everyone who supports this possible infringement on the 2nd Amendment must accept that many states would prohibit abortion, if permitted. That is the way the Federal system of government is supposed to work.
Which Constitutional rights are more important? The unenumerated right to privacy or the right to possess a firearm under the 2nd Amendment. Are some rights, like abortion as a manifestation of the right to privacy, more important than the right to possess a firearm? If states can regulated firearms, states can also regulate the right to an abortion.
2
Read Heller. The right to bear arms is not unlimited. And, SCOTUS just ruled that prohibiting concealed carry is not an infringement on the Second Amendment.
No court has ever ruled that the right to abortion is unlimited. However, the present scenario is that the GOP is trying to completely eliminate it thorough regulations and/or appointing the justices who will reverse Roe v. Wade.
Should I expect that such legislation, if passed, will set a precedent that allows people who purchase marijuana in states where it is legal to carry and use it in states where it is not?
8
It seems nonsensical to me that people can expect to bring their home state laws with them when they wander into another state with different laws. When in Rome and all that.
2
Wonderful column. I think the only recourse to gun insanity is to keep telling the truth and pleading for common sense. Maybe someday sanity will break through.
2
It would be helpful to include the name and number of the bill being discussed for readers who wish to express their opinions to their representatives.
3
"The House Judiciary Committee just voted to make it impossible for a state to always keep people convicted of violent offenses from carrying concealed weapons."
Was this really a problem that needed a solution?
5
Interesting how too many Americans love guns more than States Rights which are otherwise up there with the Holy Grail. It becomes increasingly clear that the world will be better off as the strength and influence of America continues to fade. Have you noticed how many wealthy people from Thiel to Lauer have bought property in New Zealand with its socialistic system and stricter gun control?
3
And I thought the Republicans were big on State's Rights. If a state can make its own laws on health care and marijuana possession for example, why not on gun possession within its borders. Just another example of the inconsistency of the GOP philosophy whether it is the deficit or State's Rights.
3
Here is another aspect which is totally neglected in this discussion:
What justifies the prohibition to purchase bulletproof vests for ordinary citizens?
IF there is really such a need for self defense, would buying a bulletproof vest be the first logical step, way before one gets into the arms race for the biggest gun?
I don't get this? Anyone able to help me out here?
5
bullet-proof vest manufacturers don't have the lobby power of gun makers.
You can understand it if you know that profit in dollars is all that matters to Republicans.
There is no prohibition on civilians buying a bullet proof vest. Individual companies may restrict who they will sell to, like cops and the military but civilians can buy body armor. Just look online.
1
Most states don't prohibit them, except for convicted felons, or in commission of a crime.
The problem is that they're really not all that effective. Better than nothing, sure, but they don't protect your head, and typically can be penetrated by rifle fire.
Living in the middle of High Gun Culture, realizing that neighbors truly believe that the demonstrations by open-carry folks back when it was illegal [ah, nostalgia] including swaggering into family restaurants with revolvers strapped on [in Austin, famed home of grizzlies], was peaceful civil disobedience.
We have lost government as the "monopoly of legitimate violence" just as we have lost a chief constitutional officer who believes in the Constitution.
5
Ms. Collins, I share your horror and disbelief about our gun culture. The only vaguely comforting thing I can say is that I believe the bill violates both the Tenth Amendment and Congress's powers under the Commerce Clause, If it were passed, I think there is a good chance that it would be struck down as unconstitutional.
Of course, with the judges that our Embarrassment-in-Chief is appointing, we may soon have the Supreme Court declare that the Second Amendment protects a toddler's right to carry a concealed weapon to preschool.
4
So this is how America was destroyed. Not by nuclear war, not by famine or other natural causes, but through American institutions. 1st Amendment has given rise to free speech argument for refusing to secure social networks, thus allowing our foreign adversaries to coordinate with our domestic enemies an effort to subvert democracy. 2nd Amendment has been perverted into a financial pyramid scheme which results in the highest murder rate among industrialized countries in the world. Political gerrymandering and the US Senate have ensured that the will of the majority can be suppressed. The ruling political party has 1 agenda point—enriching itself and its financial supporters. America, 1776 - 2017
5
Sickening, just sickening. Just when I think that I can no longer be affected by any particular story in today's political environment. Just to be sure I understand - so residents of a state with gun restrictions would have those restrictions apply to them, but any visitor from a state with loose regulations can have any guns they want, concealed or open? I would imagine that one thing that keeps people feeling more safe in gun-enthusiast states would be the feeling of community and knowing each other: Oh it's just Harry with his hunting rifle. But if this law goes through, it will only be strangers that will have guns in the states that strive for gun safety.
I also wonder about the practical application. In places with gun laws, if you see someone go into the 7-Eleven with a semi-automatic, you'd call the police. Aren't these visitors going to spend a lot of time facing down concerned officers who don't know that they are not residents? Sounds like a lot of trouble and grief for everyone.
4
They better be careful. Take away all chance of a good job, healthcare and all safety nets in order to give the wealthy more money, while arming the rest of the country. Never, never, never vote for any Republican. We need a return to decency and safety.
7
I only hope I live long enough to see our country recover from the policies and actions of this administration and Congress.
6
Please allow a brief counter point: I live in the Eastern Panhandle of WV. My wife loves to trap shoot. If we leave the trap shooting range with shotguns in the trunk, travel less than one mile from our home across the Potomac and into Maryland to pick up our children from a friend’s house, we just committed a felony under Maryland’s gun laws. That’s crazy.
1
So, propose a reasonable compromise that deals with reasonable scenarios like yours. And no, allowing criminals in Baltimore to carry based on a mail-order permit from Oklahoma is not a reasonable compromise.
Maybe you could leave your guns at home?
As a resident of MD, where it's nearly impossible to obtain a carry permit, I welcome this legislation. My neighbors in VA have the right to concealed carry, yet the streets there haven't turned into a bloodbath. Nor have the streets in any other state with permissive carry laws.
Perhaps if this bill passes, the recent uptick in violent assaults against innocent bystanders in Baltimore's Inner Harbor (http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/11/01/baltimore-teen-attacks/) will subside, as the young men who make the streets unsafe might no longer feel they can act with impunity. As it stands now, they know that their targets are sure to be unarmed, so they have nothing to fear from engaging in horrific acts of violence.
1
Ah yes, the old "criminals will think twice" argument.
Dude, criminals don't even think *once,* let alone twice. If they were capable of rationally assessing risk and altering their behavior accordingly, they woudln't be criminals in the first place.
And the criminals in Baltimore won't think of getting out-of-state permits?
Beyond that, you can vote to change Maryland's laws. Why wouldn't you prefer that to having the federal government change them?
Every state in country and the District of Columbia allow the carrying of concealed weapons either by permit (most) and few do not require permits.
The majority of the states recognize permits from other states, and so, my state of Virginia recognizes permits from 35 states.
It is true that Supreme Court has never ruled on the constitutionality of carrying concealed weapons in public, and because of that, I, as a devout defender of gun rights, do not support the bill before Congress. And why? For the same reason I did not support Congress passing the ban on "assault weapons". Let states decide on issues that are outside the constitution.
The bill before Congress only addresses permit holders; it excludes those who can carry in their states, but without permits.
There is really no need to fear out-of-state permit holders because they do not offend in their home states.
In my town, a local citizen says he was threatened by another driver (I'm going to kill you) while at an intersection, so he had to shoot him dead in self defense. The dead individual did have a history of violence and had perhaps mistaken this guy for someone else he'd just had a road rage interaction with.
Maybe we all need to have pistols ready, right next to our cell phones. The shooter did call 911 almost immediately.
You simply cannot satirize the situation we're in. But I seriously doubt that this absurd effort to reach the lowest common denominator on guns will ever pass the senate, and if it does there is no doubt it will be litigated all the way to the Supreme Court. In a more sane America, I would be confident that the court would recognize the absurdity of this, but we're no longer in a sane country. One thing though, if this does become the law of the land it may well represent the tipping point at which our largest, most progressive (in every sense of the word) states finally say enough is enough. Something has to give, and I believe we're fast approaching that point.
6
Your active right to carry a gun should not take precedence over my passive right to not be put in harm’s way. When you choose to bring a loaded weapon into a public space, the safety of everyone else in that space suddenly and without choice becomes dependent on your skills, judgement, mood, health, medications, political views, and general sanity. Your right to personal safety does not give the right to force me into your personal “security zone.”
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Both live side by side. There are likely already a number of people carrying concealed handguns around you on a daily basis (depending on where you live). People lawfully concealed carrying are not the big problem here, regardless of how uncomfortable you might be with the idea of it.
You threaten even where you are obliged to go unarmed, Zack. Your rationale for own owning guns is just another infantile tautology: you own guns to stop others from taking them away from you.
You are constantly surrounded by people who carry for self-defense. When was the last time you noticed?
We need more Reps in the House of Representatives, Ms. Collins. According to my limited research the number 435 was locked in place after the census of NINETEEN TEN when our population was 91 million.
With the count now at 321 million, OF the People, BY the People and FOR the People means the Rep count should be FIFTEEN-THIRTY FOUR. Think the the Kochs, the Mercers, the NRA and the Trumpettes would have more trouble 'managing' that number? I do. Back to democracy please, the democracy as conceived by our Founders. Enough of this bloody Road to Serfdom. The Party of Lincoln is verging on the Party of Nathan Bedford Forrest.
18
We don't need any more parochial twits in Congress with perspectives no larger than their districts of states.
Back in the old West days, the first things that happened when people formed a town was that guns were barred within the city limits and a sheriff was hired. This was called civilization and everybody in town was glad to see it. Now what do we get? More than 300 million guns, one for every citizen, and the invitation to shoot it out no matter how many innocent bystanders are in the way. Have these legislators and the NRA lobbyists lost their marbles? Are we all preparing for World War III? I feel like I've entered an episode of The Walking Dead.
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We're preparing for an American Krystallnacht of murderous skinhead gunners shooting people in their beds.
1
Yes, we do seem to be preparing for WWIII. But all the guns under Steve King's Christmas tree won't stop the exchange of nuclear weapons with North Korea. Some future civilization will find them among the rubble -and bend them into plowshares?
1
I would agree that the NRA and their congressional and presidential water carriers had indeed lost their marbles but for my doubt they possessed any in the first place.
2
Would not GOP logic round about now dictate that open carry be allowed inside the Senate? Senators ought to be able to defend themselves.
10
The CDC has already declared gun violence a public health crisis. America is a diseased nation.
Whenever my husband asks where I might want to relocate for our eventual retirement (by which, of course, he means a lower-taxed state in the U.S.), I always name some other country that doesn't have an American-sized problem with gun violence. He thinks I'm not serious, but if another country would welcome us...
18
Try Switzerland. One of the safest countries in the world with one of the highest gun ownership rates. Not known for its super liberal culture. Wonder how that works?
Since you brought it up….gun ownership as well as gun homicides vary a lot across the US, they are not evenly distributed. Ownership is lowest among minorities and highest among whites, higher with Republicans than with Democrats, and lowest in urban areas and highest in rural areas.
Looking at the number of murders by county in the US about half had zero murders, and 90% of those counties had a Republican majority in the 2016 election. 88% of counties had 0 to 5 murders and 86% of those counties had a Republican majority. Of the top 25 counties with the most murders 23 had a Democratic majority, some being in Red states. This largely reflects a difference between rural and urban areas.
I don't have just gun homicides but about two thirds of murders are committed with guns, mainly handguns, so it is a good proxy. Large areas of the US with higher than average rates of gun ownership had zero or a very low number of murders, while areas with some of the lowest rates of gun ownership had the most murders. Population sizes obviously account for differences but quantity matters regarding contribution to the national homicide rate. One is left with the question; does the NRA/GOP make Democrats buy guns? Does the NRA/GOP make Democrats shoot people?
3
The NRA wants ever last timorous jerk in the USA armed to the teeth.
Huh. You forgot to post your links. Here's one. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
All your numbers say are that counties with more people have more murders.
Duh....
The question is what is the murder rate / 100,000 people.
Chicago's murder rate has been going up since 2013. By coincidence, that is when the NRA got some of Chicago's gun laws overturned.
Not to mention that people can go over the boarder to Indiana and buy guns at gun shows without have to register.
"the gun thing"
When did it become such a "thing".
Not when I was growing up decades ago in a small town on the west coast of Michigan, on the shores of the Great Lake of the same name.
Not when I was going to church and to school and movies without a thought of being gunned down there.
Not when I attended MSU, and the only guns were those of the National Guard that we put flowers in the barrel of.
Not when I went to law school, to learn about the responsibilities of the electorate, not just their "rights".
The gun thing happened later, somewhere in my adulthood, my professional life, when it started to gain momentum, when anyone began to pay any attention to the NRA.
Why? 9/11 doesn't explain it - there are many more deaths due to guns in the hands of red blooded Americans than any alien terrorists.
And now there are actually people who argue for the "rights" of mad men, and domestic abusers, and convicted violent criminals, and the underage, to own weapons of mass destruction - and have stockpiles of ammunition.
Do we feel safer? Are we safer? Google it. The number of mass shootings back then, versus now. The number of homicides and suicides and accidental deaths by guns now, instead of back then. The toddlers that kill their mothers or siblings. The teen angst that results in mass murder or domestic homicide.
Guns have only one purpose - to kill. Why do we need so many of them - do we think they won't be used for their intended purpose?
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I think 9/11 was part of it, the Bush Administration creating a climate of fear and paranoia, convincing Americans that they needed to be on the defensive at all times.
2
Dismissing for the moment the millions of men, women, and children who actively participate in the shooting sports while never target more than a piece of paper, many of whom admittedly couldn't shoot a food animal even if necessary to survive, your statement is only half true. In rural areas, especially impoverished rural areas, the primary purpose for owning guns is to live, nourish, and sustain families. It isn't to protect them from other bad people or the government, it is to feed their families. Most of us still live in parts of the country or remember living in parts of the country where there is a respect for life, in parts of the country where that respect hasn't been dulled by our surroundings like it apparently has been in cities like Chicago, Detroit, New York, etc. When you look at who is killing who and where, it is Democrats killing other Democrats.
1
It is the brainchild of one of America's most cowardly geeks, Wayne LaPierre, a man with his finger on the pulse of cowardice in this sandbox.
1
Thank you for exposing this. Let me get this straight. The party that advocates state rights and the reduced role of the federal government is actually forcing guns on the States, right? Could I possibly have gotten that right?
Good God, it's like every day is a new nightmare in a country I don't even know anymore.
32
And in my state, the Republican party that is against big government actually imposes their Republican state laws on cities, not allowing cities to have their own statues when it suits the Republicans.
Things like pollution and guns.
I never take seriously the principles Republicans claim to stand for. It is just justification for what they want in a given situation.
And it is completely ignored when it goes against what they want.
It will only get worse. Nihilists have put schizophrenics in the driver's seat, and the objective is "Burn, Baby, Burn!"
The Republican Congressmen clearly do not shoot very often. If they did they would realize how difficult it is to shoot straight in tight and tense situations. This myth we have of the everyone protecting themselves from everyone else is insane. We pay police for protection. We lock doors. We used to go to safe places, but now no place is safe due to constitutional carry. Professors in Kansas universities have to allow guns in classrooms. Why is the US so messed up?
10
As Bernie Sanders has stated, "...attitudes and actions with regards to firearms differ greatly between rural and urban communities..."
Throwing Wisconsin's decision, to allow rural children (city kids don't hunt as much) to obtain a hunting license, under the bus...is a horrible example of decontextualizing a fact in order to suit an agenda. Two sons of friends, aged 10 and 12 this year, shot their first deer, which is a long-time rite of passage for many rural kids (boys and girls). They are not hunting unsupervised and they are required to take, and pass, a safe hunter course...often taught at our local school. Which, by-the-way, has a high-school trap team.
Are you saying that the Wisconsin law applies only to children 10 years old or older while supervised by an adult within a certain distance? Is Ms. Collins wrong in stating the law applies to children under that age and does not require an adult to supervise within a certain distance of the child?
I also received my first rifle at age 10 and was carefully trained in gun safety by a grandfather who was a police captain. Nevertheless I would not have been allowed to join the men of the family hunting at that age.
A high-school age trap (shooting) team seems like a reasonable idea for a rural area. Note the age: Not middle or elementary age.
2
I took a pot shot at a groundhog when I was about ten myself. It was sillouetted above a ridgeline. I missed. I don't know where the bullet went, it could have landed anywhere in the valley down below.
I would rather deer overpopulation be handled with contraceptives than guns.
2
It sounds as though you should have taken a safe hunter course, wherein you're taught not to do such irresponsible things. My statement made no reference to controlling deer populations, but it's important to note that the absence of natural predation does make it necessary that some intervention takes place. In rural areas we rely upon hunting.
I have been watching the Netflix series 'Godless'. It takes place in the 1800's in the 'Wild West'. In the show, every conflict and argument is ended when someone pulls out a gun. Law enforcement, represented by a few sheriffs, is overwhelmed by the 'bad guys'. (I have watched 3 episodes). I know it is fiction, but I feel that this is the vision of the country that we are returning to. Everyone has a gun and every citizen can solve his/her problem with a weapon. We are slowly but surely losing the moorings of a civil society and regressing into a world of 'Every man for himself'.
7
If the conceal carry license of a state like Montana is to be respected in states like California, then the gun laws of California should be also applied for anybody to get a gun in states like Montana. It’s only fair.
8
Who knows, lawmakers firing in diamond formation may have had some benefits. Gail, you may have missed some entertaining imagery.
2
Conservatives are strong supporters of States' Rights - but only when the states are setting out to block marriage equality, reproductive freedom, or racial justice.
When the states want to keep their citizens safe from lunatics with guns, or want to protect immigrants from persecution, or want to provide access to marijuana to mitigate cancer pain, the principle of States' Rights is forgotten in favor of federal power.
There's hypocrisy everywhere, but the Right - and especially the Religious Right - have made it a way of life.
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I don't get it. I have a constitutional right to vote, but I am limited to one vote per election and only in the state that I am REGISTERED. And to REGISTER I have to have proof of identity and residence. When I purchase a car, it must be REGISTERED, licensed and insured and I must have a license to drive it. And I am not permitted to purchase and drive a military tank through town.
8
Before the Civil War, the South exalted the importance of states' rights as if the principle enjoyed divine sanction as one of the original Ten Commandments. Or at least its leaders did so until they needed to rely on federal power to force citizens in the free states to help recover runaway slaves. The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 did exactly that, but after its passage southern congressmen returned to their defense of states' rights.
Today, the Republican minions of the NRA have given us another example of flexible principles in defense of state autonomy. If the House bill were to become law, it would override state statutes limiting who can qualify for an open-carry permit. So much for GOP efforts to restrain what its members see as the heavy hand of Washington.
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Thanks for raising the states' rights issue. It does seem that those states most vociferous in their defense of their sovereignty are rather selective when it comes to the application. The ACA might be an example; under the doctrine of states' right, some states opposed expanding Medicare. And they were successful in that opposition.
But now with guns, California must bend to the will of Missouri.
9
The hypocrisy of the "right", republicans, is astonishing.
3
It's true, republican hypocrisy knows no bounds. They complain about federal government overreach until they want to use it to impose their bad ideas on everyone else. From guns to abortion to education to the environment to the definition of marriage, they would use the federal government to crush all opposition.
2
I love how the GOP argues for State's rights. Except when it's not convenient to their arguments.
8
In this season of joy, reflection, and thanksgiving, let's give thanks to the supreme court for its marvelous passage of a new "law" allowing unfettered access to powerfully corrupting campaign donations. Yes, Citizen's United! That insightful decision that has finished off democracy in this country.
Before Citizen's United, Congress occasionally cared about the voters. Now, they are unfettered and their true disdain for the people who vote, as opposed to the people who put them in office by supplying the money, is no longer an open secret. It is right there in your face daily.
It only took five men - yes, all men - to bring this country down.
13
Do you realize that this bill will allow a felon to carry a concealed weapon accross state lines as their constitutional right but that in some states they may not be able to vote because of a past felony conviction?
7
I remember a kinder and gentler America - where guns were an afterthought on the national scene.
My dad had a rifle, a 30.06, which he taught me to shoot at the Rod & Gun Club where he was a member, and I enjoyed target shooting. He kept his rifle in a locker at the Club - never took it home. I later had a Remington Nylon 11 .22 with a scope that was more expensive than the rifle, and got darned good at the targets. The rifle was kept in a locker at the Club.
We never even thought about taking the rifles home - having them in our space at home. They were weapons - and had no place there.
Back then you could go to a nightclub, a church, a concert, a movie theater and have absolutely no fear of a mass shooting - it just didn't happen.
Go ahead - Google it. Google the number of 1940's and 50's mass shootings. The time I'm talking about - the kinder, gentler days in American history when carnage was not the story of the day. Less guns, less shootings. It's there for anyone to read.
People back then didn't have assault weapons and stocks of ammunition - and somehow we survived very well. We can again. But not if people don't take action against this soulless NRA, and the people they put into office.
Know the people you are voting for, know their position on the obscenity of guns, and vote. Vote for your safety, for the safety of those you love, for a kinder, gentler society to whom guns are an afterthought.
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Actually, post-WWII, a significantly higher percentage of households had guns in them than have them today.
In the 1940's and 50's there were two wars that killed dozens of millions of people. Japan, that glowing example, was one of the belligerents who invaded other countries and killed millions of people. They even used chemical and biological warfare agents on the Chinese.
That sound like the days when we adhered to the Second Amendment, with organizations ("a well-organized militia") being the place where guns were kept, rather than the current misinterpretation of the amendment.
3
Mexico an Canada are looking better all the time.
I never thought I would be thinking that, but if I was a bit younger, Vancouver would be looking pretty good about now.
10
Had an office in Vancouver for years. A beautiful place to live but it has become too expensive, like my former residence Palo Alto. Canada is inviting though.
A friend retired to Mexico. He lives in a beautiful small town on a lake and has been very happy. He tells me "medical care here is fantastic". I may take him up on his invitation to visit. Hard to realize what has happened to the US.
1
I think a relocation to Mexico is a great idea. Nice climate, warm friendly people and great food. They have very few legally owned firearms in private hands and strong central government control..........Oh they have a horrendous murder problem and criminals menace law abiding citizens who can’t protect themselves.
Gun laws don’t stop criminals from owning and using them.
Few of the writers (except Eric) know anything about state-level gun laws, or that ANY purchase of ANY firearm from ANY dealer (including sales made over the internet but which by Federal law must be completed face to face with a licensed dealer) requires a Federal NICS background check. Yes there are a few states that do not require a concealed carry permit and in many states you can make a private purchase without a background check. The closest one to NY is VT. How many massacres have been committed in VT? To my knowledge, zero. Texas has a fairly strict concealed carry law, so your use of the Sutherland tragedy has no basis in fact. News to NY'ers: most states with CC permit laws, including those in the always denigrated south, require fingerprints and verification by local and state police, and the federal database, that the applicant is not a criminal, not under indictment, has not been committed to a mental hospital, not under a domestic protection order, etc. Same with state laws prohibiting carry while drinking. Finally, the House bill would require that concealed carriers abide by the laws of the state in which they are carrying. So for example, if NY requires a 10 round capacity limit, an NC permit holder could not carry with 17 rounds in NY. The bill is much like driver's license recognition, and far more restrictive than forcing gay marriage on the many states where it is viewed as a disgusting Northeast and Left Coast aberration.
1
“Once the exceptions start they will have no end,” said Representative Louie Gohmert of Texas.
One can only hope. Trying to limit places in which guns can be carried and people who can carry them Is the wrong tactic. Democrats should propose legislation that would prohibit banning of "concealed carry" or openly carrying guns into the offices and workplaces of every federal legislator in order to clearly point out the hypocrisy and cowardice of those legislators who seek to provide themselves cover from the threat and carnage that are the consequence of their obeisance to their corporate financiers. Let all of America see that, so long as their personal safety is not threatened, they are primarily concerned with the surety of maintaining their congressional seats not the safety and security of the citizens they have sworn to serve.
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Yes next thing you know they will ban insane people from owning a nuclear weapon. The attacks on our freedoms just have no end.
2
After Sandy Hook, President Obama commissioned the CDC to study, among other things, the legitimate defensive use of guns to prevent crime. They cited a lot of other studies, but seemed to settle on the low estimate of 250,000 or so preventive uses a year (they dismissed the often-quoted 3 million uses a year).
Yet NYT and others constantly repeat that the good guy with the gun stopping a spree killer is rare. Of course it is, because spree killings are rare.
2
Part and parcel of the insanity we are all living through. A man's entire career is thrown out because he inadvertently touched a woman's back, and in the same day the House tries to eliminate all barriers to carrying guns everywhere. Do you see the connection here? Paranoia about touching of any kind and at the same time an addiction to and idolization of the gun? It sounds like the profile of a serial killer. I find this extremely scary.
4
I love your column as always, Gail, but I have to comment on the accompanying picture. Diane Feinstein and others are posing with a picture of a large gun, but who thinks a picture of a gun will move people to oppose this new measure? What we need are large, explicit photographs of violent men aiming those guns, and brutally explicit pictures of the innocent people who are harmed by them.
5
Virtually, every night since dt was elected I have gone to sleep and awakened with the same thought: what one thing among the myriad of things that the president has said or done, will cause his presidency to fail before the next election? I think the re-tweets of the racist videos might be that thing.
And if not, then it is time to ask if generals Kelly, Mattis, and McMaster are really such paragons of wisdom and character. It is time to ask about the moral standing of the Joint Chiefs. And most of all, the moral standing of the GOP.
The retweets yesterday were an endorsement of religious warfare and racism by THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES! Surely, this cannot stand in America. Please!
6
Because Ms. Collins has an influential voice, I hold her to a higher standard. And I find her gun control information misleading. First and foremost, gun violence in the US is mostly an inner city problem. As for mass murders, their numbers are distorted if you define them as incidents where 4 or more people die. According to the FBI, most of the murders involving 4 victims and may be 5 or 6 are family disputes which not many people think of as akin to Las Vegas. So the number of mass murders is grossly exaggerated and what goes on in Chicago, St. Louis, and Detroit is understated.
If you want to get a good idea where the US rates in murders, you don't just compare it with Japan, which has the lowest murder rate of any sizable country. What is more revealing is that the number of gun killings in the US puts us among third world countries.
I'm not sure what the purpose of listing stupid gun provisions is if they were passed by the House but never became law because they were voted down in the Senate. Ms. Collins is on much more solid ground when she talks abut ridiculous state laws that actually are in effect.
Gun control is an important issue. Ms. Collins has the ear of her readers. I don't think she did a very good job with this column.
16
Well then please hold yourself to that high bar you set. Where are the statistics from the DOJ or other reliable source that shows that misuse of guns is a mainly urban phenomenon? What are the nations that would be a better comparison to the United States regarding misuse of guns. Why group multiple gun deaths by one shooter into those committed by family/relatives and those committed by strangers? What is to be gained by making that distinction? Ms Collins is reporting facts. Where are yours or at least your supporting evidence?
5
"First and foremost, gun violence in the US is mostly an inner city problem" is blatantly false.
Firearm suicides far exceed firearm homicides and firearm suicides are mostly a white male rural problem. Add to that fact that mass shootings are perpetrated by those who have no exit plan other than their own demise -- in other words, suicide by COP or suicide by their own hand.
Gun violence is a uniquely American epidemic exacerbated by the false notion that more guns in the hands of more citizens somehow makes everyone safer. Thank you Gail for adding your voice of reason to dispel such fantasy.
6
Michjas, I think she did a good job. In my way of thinking a gun death is a gun death is a gun death no matter how you choose to categorize them. The two operative words are guns and death. If guns allegedly make us safer would not the USA be the safest country in the world?
6
Republicans claim they oppose the powerful federal government stifling states' rights. In the case of guns they seem to have abandoned their support of states rights, passing a bill that specifies that states have no right to pass state laws that contravene this federal legislation. This could lead to a strange contradiction - people from out of state could be armed, while citizens of the state would be barred from carrying guns without a permit.
The United States of America is a strange beast. Once upon a time, we were a respected world power. Now, by my reckoning, we don't even rank as a civilized country. It's so tragic that this turn of events was mapped out by a group of people who are interested only in the plunder of our once great nation. They've waited all this time - all the time it took to dumb-down and gerrymander enough voters. Those of us who had the privilege of being educated enough to understand what matters were too selfish and interested in furthering our own and our children's success that we forgot to ensure that the tide that lifted us, lifted all.
BOTTOM LINE: Those who had the advantage kept it to ourselves. We are now going to pay the debt. I hope we survive.
3
Imposing problems for others seems to be the specialty of this Congress, and it's not just with guns. Wait until Medicare, Medicaid, and Children's Health Insurance Program beneficiaries see what problems await them as this bunch of amateurs "fixes" the deficit created by awarding tax cuts to cronies with campaign cash.
1
"Some people fix problems. Some just impose them on everybody else. Depends on the year. No. Depends on the political party.
On the other hand, military assault weapons readily available to the public, as young as...birth(?) would be consistent with the thoughts of the author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson, who advised that to prevent the degeneracy of government and keep its attention on public affairs (presumably for the public welfare), "a little rebellion now and then is a good thing." Without an arsenal of assault weapons in the public hands, a rebellion would be toothless (or should that be bulletless). And how else can the public get the attention of a government that favors the wishes of a few?
Sorry to harp on, but there are solutions:
1. Introduce compulsory voting - that really is the biggie.
2. Free up the CDC (but really the evidence is already out there).
3. Approach the problem like it is a public health issue with all that implies.
4. Change your constitiution, wonderful though it has been. That would soften the attitude that many Americans have that you all have a right to own firearms. Devoid of the responsibility of course.
None of these potential solutions will ever happen and in 200 years (when we will all be gone), people everywhere will look back and realise that the election of Donald Trump and the ascendancy of the far right of the Republican party, was the beginning of the fall of Western civilisation.
If the events at Sandy Hook could not motivate American legislators to change your firearm laws, than nothing ever will.
Best wishes to our American friends.
6
One thing not discussed is that our beloved, respected, don't disparage it military branches have been ignoring soldiers' behavior during and after their service and prevented them from getting guns. Violent people. People clearly very, very disturbed. People who have suffered tremendously from their tours of duty in dangerous parts of the world. There really is no reason to start limiting guns now. There are so many guns. So many households with arsenals. So many military type weapons. Anyone is eligible to own guns, really. And if not eligible. getting your hands on guns is very easy. So this needs to play itself out. Good old fashioned shoot outs. Cops and Robbers. Good guys vs bad guys. Unlike the military in war zones, however, there won't be any attention paid to avoiding collateral damage. The suicides: the price of freedom. The innocent lives lost: All a part of making America great again. Now I feel better.
I've lived in this country by entire life. I've traveled widely but have always come home.
I'm ready to leave now. I don't want my tax dollars to go to the rich. I don't want to see old people starving in the streets because they no longer have Social Security and Medicare which they paid into their entire lives. I'm encouraging any young people who ask to seek their way outside the US.
I can't bear to turn on the television. I can't stand the sound of that thing in the Oval Office. I can't tolerate the absolute contempt Congress shows for the people who elected them and their suckling at the teat of Corporations.
I can't live with the way we treat our neighbors because of the color of their skin or the religion or their gender.
I grew up in the 70's and early 80's. I don't know this place I now live.
I think of Venezuela. I remember the days when it was a lovely vacation spot and became prosperous. I look at it now and I wonder how far away from this is the US? Sounds improbable? It did to the Venezuelans as well.
We are on the cusp.
We need to take action. Right now.
11
I agree you should leave.
Why are you treating people differently because of religion or skin color? The gun owners that I know well wouldn’t dream of acting in such an anti-American fashion.
The Leftist paradise of Venezuela ran out of other people’s money when the US began to gain energy independence and oil prices plummeted. Business friendly honest competition and self sufficient people who don’t depend on government hand outs is a good thing not a problem.
If you live where there are more trucks than cars guns are tools not problems. Urban gangs skew all of the gun statistics. Taking out suicides, Chicago, Detroit, LA, and a handful of other cities the US statistics do begin to look more like Japan and other first world statistics. With 300 Million guns owned privately they aren’t used for crime often compsted to most countries.
1
Shouldn't the citizenry be allowed in the halls of congress armed to the teeth to protect their good guys from bad guys?
Surely all those concealed weapons would put the fear of god in any possible perpetrator.
Members should be required to carry weaponry for protection. We could then do away with the Capitol Hill Police Force and leave it up to a well armed militia to take care of it all.
What could possibly go wrong with a bunch of good guys with no weapons certification packing heat?
We could turn areas wasted on the police into self service bars on the honor system as well to help reduce the deficit.
Lets drink to that.
3
"if only all the lawmakers had gone to the game armed."
Have you ever tried playing sports or even jogging with something heavy in your pocket? It's a pain. Even keys are uncomfortable. I just cannot see anyone running the bases or on the field with a gun. Maybe you could hide one under each base, just in case.
My impression has been that rapid police response was important in Las Vegas, even though the number of casualties was huge. According to the abive argument, perhaps if someone at the concert below had been armed they might have ... ugh, it's utterly tragic.
2
A few of the Republican members of Congress were nearly shot to death, with Steve Scalise (R-La.) suffering injuries that required weeks of hospitalization.
Undaunted the Republicans push for MORE gun rights, the right to life, etc. being an afterthought. We are not dealing with caring people here, Gail, unless the caring pertains to their campaign coffers.
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And there were people at that fateful game who normally carry concealed weapons, but had to leave them at home because they were traveling to DC after finishing the game in VA. While we'll never know whether they would have stopped the shooter if they'd had access to their personal firearms, we know that not having access left them defenseless.
The right to life only applies to fetuses. After that its all up to luck.
2
Question: do not members of Congress have security details.? How many armed security guys were around that ball field? I find it hard to believe there was no security whatsoever. Our Congress members are a bunch of lawyers— what do they know about using weapons in a high stress situation? I’m with Gabby on this one.
2
I don't know if we can, in today's Trumpian environment, outlaw or restrict any type of gun, including military weapons which can kill hundreds of men, women and children in a few minutes. There are just too many pols who are dependent on the money they're getting from the NRA. There may be, however, another tack we can take.
I own a 2009 car, a nice car, nothing special, but it drives well. Every year I pay about $600 for insurance for this car. Everyone who owns a car in this country MUST have his or her car insured EVERY year because every year more than 30,000 men, women and children are killed in auto accidents.
Guns also kill over 30,000 men, women and children in our country. Gun owners, however, are NOT required to insure their guns. Why not? Dead is dead.
Perhaps we can't stop people in this country from buying any kind of gun they want, but they CAN and SHOULD be required to have their guns insured every year. Not for the gun owners themselves, but to protect the families of those killed by guns from having to pay the bills caused by the death of their loved ones. It's only fair.
760
That would be unconstitutional and would have the effect of infringing on the unalienable right to self defense, the second amendment.
Aside from that, what exactly will insurance do to prevent gun deaths? Bring the people back to life? Auto insurance doesn't stop auto accidents.
And you are fundamentally incorrect about the numbers of deaths caused by guns and cars. Auto deaths are of a similar number as gun deaths but two thirds of gun deaths are suicides, so that makes gun deaths that are a threat to the general public about 10,000 a year, whereas deaths caused by cars, on the public streets, threats to the general public, three times higher at about 30,000 a year. So, you see, even with all of the insurance and regulation of cars they still are a threat to the public welfare three times worse than guns.
1
This is a concept I've been trying to push too. There is one industry in this country that has more money and makes bigger donations to congress than the NRA -- the insurance industry. While they'll love the idea of yet another market being opened up and required by law, once it starts costing them money in the form of settlements and payouts to the injured, we might see some action in our government halls.
4
Agreed.
We are obliged to buy car accident insurance but no one sees the logic of extending that obligation to health insurance.
2
The Supreme Court recently upheld the Maryland law that does not permit the sale of a range of semi-automatic weapons and large-capacity magazines.
This has not harmed gun sales or lowered gun ownership. 2nd Amendment rights were not taken away. Some guns and ammo clearly designed for the battlefield are no longer sold to the public. There are thousands of other weapons available. People are not prohibited from buying guns, just those weapons. Our police have a dangerous job, they shouldn't have to confront people with assault weapons. This is for the safety of first responders as well the general public.
Other states should look at Maryland's law. A multi state ban might achieve what Congress can't.
37
To anyone who might be invited to Christmas at the Kings: don't forget your body armor.
And Santa, better watch your back when emerging from that chimney. Instead of cookies and milk, you're more likely to be faced with an AR-15.
49
Oh, Lord, whatever happened to states' rights?
84
States' rightist a big part of the problem just as local control has created a disastrously low level of the standards of public education.
The same thing that happened to deficit hawks
1
States rights appear to stop at guns and reproductive rights. Just like controlling the deficit stops at the Kochs, Mercers, and Trumps.
The house should be made into a free carry zone (or whatever it is called). No security checks, no frisking, bring whatever weapons you like to the visitor gallery. Only when our representatives have to face the same risks as the rest of the population will we have any semblance of hope that they might come to their senses about the utility of having open or concealed weapons everywhere.
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@ gerard.c.tromp Pennsylvania
I like your idea, but I would add to it obligatory training in respect to, and use of, firearms. At least then we can be certain that the House Members will not settle their accounts as in "Gunfight at O.K. Corral".
1
I just said the same thing so maybe We, The People are coming to a boiling point. Open Carry in the Capitol! I demand it! In the Gallery as well as on the floor. I'm sure Steve King and Louis Gohmert would approve. How could they not?
5
Every day I wake up and wonder where I am.
I don't even understand what the hell Republicans are trying to do to this great country of ours.
We are the laughing stock of the world because of our president.
We are polluting our water and our air as if it doesn't matter.
We are dismantling protections for consumers because it hurts the banks - the same banks that led to the meltdown in 2008, never were punished for their malfeasance, banks experiencing record profits.
We are giving money to the richest in this country because they need/deserve it, so the gap between the rich and everyone else can become wider.
We are decimating our schools because the rich need/deserve the money more than our children.
We are allowing our infrastructure to achieve third-world status.
We are taunting our enemies.
We are reverting back to the good old days of Jim Crow and stopping people from voting.
We are seeing a president destroy all manner of grace, decency, kindness.
We are watching as a pedophile slithers his way to Congress.
We are seeing a president defend Nazis.
We are seeing a plutocracy strangle our standard of living because they need/deserve more money.
We are seeing a mass shooting every day, and a mass shooting a mere 2 months ago where 58 people died and 546 injured, and our leaders say nothing can be done about this, in the only country in the world that this happens.
Trump supporters, I beg of you, please explain how all this is making America great, again?
1203
And even beyond your question "Trump supporters, I beg of you, please explain how all this is making America great, again?" is the greater question:
"WHY?" I have thought about this question a lot: WHY? What underlying factors compel this republican party toward its present legislative endeavor to balloon the coffers of the the very wealthy by simultaneously plunging the less fortunate of us into permanent misery? WHY is this acceptable to them? What is the greater plan behind these actions and goals? What underlying beliefs support these actions?
At the onset of all this foolishness and destruction, I repeated often: "I cant believe the whole republican party is behind these efforts. No party can be wholly evil or wholey good." And yet - My Senator Susan Collins has once again thrown her constituents under bus and voted to advance a bill so egregious that I sputter when I try to speak of it. Ms. Collins does not seem like a an evil person at all to me, and yet - the Krytonite like effects of the present amoral republican party makes weaklings of any republicans with Clark Kent tendencies toward social heroics. And still the question for me is "WHY"? What do they truly gain???
9
Trump, who hates being shown up by someone smarter, is determined to reverse everything good that Obama accomplished. But Obama was right on point, and by reversing his initiatives, Trump is gutting and devastating our government. And his worthless enablers in the Republican Party are thrilled.
8
I'd like to hear from Jill Stein voters too
9
The Republican Congress is once again attempting to ramrod tax legislation through like their attempts to repeal and replace ACA just to say they have given the president a win. If this legislation passes in its current form we are about to experience the trickle up effect. As usual the poor and elderly are going to be negatively affected along with the middle class. There is no guarantee this legislation will create jobs.
55
If history and economists (42 out of 42 agreed) are any guide, there is absolutely no reason to expect this great transfer of wealth from the 99% to the desperately needy (neediness isn't JUST economic, look at Trump!) 1% will create jobs or stimulate an economy of the edge of becoming overheated.
Corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars right now. If excess money were a stimulant, we should all be in high cotton. What would make the wealthy reinvest in their businesses would be higher taxes.
This is designed to wreck the shredded remains of our social fabric. That is the goal.
1
John, this is where all the focus should be today, the horrible tax bill.
The most disheartening outcome has been the realization that our representatives do not represent the majority in this country and when it is obvious a majority doesn't like their policy they just vote it in anyway. It is sort of a big middle finger to the citizens. I truly believe the essential issue is money in politics. The corporations and billionaires are taking over the country. The constitution doesn't mean anything anymore. And 'checks and balances' is just a quaint concept.
392
"I truly believe the essential issue is money in politics."
This. Absolutely. 100%. Until this issue is resolved I don't believe real progress is possible. I want all money out of politics. When that happens we can discuss, debate, and solve anything. Until that happens the money talks and wins every time.
3
If pro-gun legislators were not returned to office they could not advance pro-gun proposals. If campaign money spent were a guarantee for winning then Hillary Clinton would be president today. It really is about votes, not about opinion polls.
The NRA is just another Oligarchal entity that has the power to self-regulate. No different than Wall Street, the fossil fuel industry,pharma, etc etc etc.
1
I’m with the NYT reader who said that she pays taxes so she doesn’t need to carry a gun. Exactly. Can you imagine if all Americans carried guns? What kind of country does that?
There’s a similar attitude toward health insurance. The folks who want the right to not pay for health insurance- and the folks who want the right to carry any gun anywhere- rely on others who pay for their own health insurance- and not carry guns- so that our country stays healthy, safe, and sane. What makes these folks so special that they don’t have to act responsibly? We were a reasonably advanced culture a year ago... now we are going backward.
279
Our friendly gun industry sees huge profit potential in renewed civil war.
1
There are 3 guns for everyone man, woman, and child in the hands of private persons in the United States. We kill far more of each other than any other country in the world.
No, you people were backward a year ago. Its just more obvious now.
The NRA is no doubt still smarting from Trump abruptly maintaining the ban on Americans bringing in "trophies" from murdered elephants abroad. The gun lobbying force sure is used to getting their way.
And with elections less than a year away, Congressional Republicans are kowtowing to the NRA, lest they lose financial support or have the gun lobbyists take aim at them. GOP legislators are more afraid of a displeased NRA than they are of having a citizenry armed through the teeth.
51
Lifelong Democrat here, but I never got involved in a campaign until I saw an ad in the magazine, Field and Stream, in the year 2000. The ad was pure NRA propaganda and until then, I never realized what a lying, scheming fear-mongering organization it was. The ad showed a kindly gray haired grandfather type with his subteen grandson in an outdoor setting. The message was Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Janet Reno not only want to take your guns but outlaw hunting, a traditiion handed down from generation to generation. Being from a rural, hunting, and gun owning family, I knew that no politician was going to "outlaw hunting" or take away any hunting rifles or shotguns from anyone. Although it was way late in the campaign, I immediately went to the local Gore/Lieberman campaign office and volunteered.
My first duck hunt was when I was 8 years old (didn't shoot the gun even) but I loved duck hunting more than any other type. I consider the NRA the enemy of the American people and this organization has the blood of perhaps millions on their fat greedy hands.
Many Dems have supported the NRA too.
the key words In this reply are "no doubt" ... what the ban on trophies has to do with the NRA is exactly ... NOTHING.
typical nonsequiturizing by the loony left.
The primary duty of governments is to protect their citizens. The United States spends hundreds of billions a year on national defence against potential foreign aggressors, but many American governments show little regard for the protection of Americans from their armed and dangerous fellow Americans. It's a disgrace - and to promote that their best defence is to arm themselves just magnifies it.
In Australia we have a non-alcoholic beverage called "Claytons" that used to be marketed as "the drink you have when you're not having a drink". "Claytons" has since entered the general vernacular here to mean "a poor substitute for the real thing". For their dereliction of their duty to protect the lives of American citizens, rather than the profits of American gun manufacturers, Republican governments make the USA seem like a "Claytons democracy" to me. It's very distressing.
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I doubt the phrase will catch on here. Our illegal immigrants have more influence on the American language and customs than Australia could ever hope to have here. Sorry, but Australia isn’t even an afterthought in the U.S.—no offense.
And you're only watching it from afar. Imagine living here.
Feel free to mind your own business, it not being your country, and all that.
It is one thing to own a rifle or shotgun to hunt with if you need to eat, quite another to own one for self-protection, for which there has never been much if any credible research on the topic showing that owning and carrying keep you safer. There is a body of research showing the opposite to be true because of gun suicides and homicides.
If gun rights folks want to present good reliable studies showing evidence of a significant safety enhancement by owning a gun, on average (not one-off anecdotal stories), then I would be willing to shut my mouth.
But what do you know, back in the 90s, the Republicans wrote some legislation (Dickey Amendment) that does not allow funding of the CDC to study gun safety if the conclusions advocate for gun control. They also cut funding by the exact amount that had been used on gun research the previous year. They later restored funding but only for traumatic brain injury research. The net effect has meant that since about 2001, there have been no CDC studies in this area.
Sure sign of a flawed case and of cowards. The NRA are a bunch of cowards who cannot stand to see what basic research has concluded with non-government funding and might conclude with government funding about the effect of gun ownership on public health.
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CDC is rife with bureaucrats from the deep state ... who will never get fired no matter how bad they perform. Which is precisely why the CDC should not be the determinant of any gun violence study.
ivygrad91: Ummm, did you miss the part about there being non-CDC research showing that gun ownership and carrying do not keep you safer? Or is anyone who conducts gun safety research part of the conspiracy?
1
“Once the exceptions start they will have no end,” said Representative Louie Gohmert of Texas. Good point. All the months have either 30 or 31 days. The exception is February, which has 28, and there is ANOTHER exception: 29 days every four years. It is only a matter of time before April has 29 days, July 36, except 37 every 11 years. Will it ever stop?
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Wait, what? I thought Republicans were all about State's rights. Now they want to tell me that they want a Federal law to override my State's gun laws? Talk about Federal overreach!
Eric from Maine would equate bringing a gun from Missouri to California to bringing a car, despite different car registration requirements in the two States. But he fails to note that the driver from Missouri must obey California's traffic laws, even if they differ from Missouri's. False equivalence.
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@NeilsDad
Eric from Maine's position is even worse than you think. Missouri has some of the weakest gun laws in the nation. California some of the strongest.
Also, the car brought from Missouri to California would eventually have to be re-licensed in California, as would its owner. Not so for the gun, if the Guns R Us crowd has its way.
3
State's rights to violate Constitutional rights? That's a novel interpretation of that idea.
1
And the drivers must be licensed and have insurance.
1
Weird, but we need to look at the bigger picture: A big portion of our country has cracked up. A biologist friend attributes this to a 50% decline in male sperm count since World War II, causing a lot of anxiety and the resulting compensations. The source is likely to be chemical pollution in our food and atmosphere, but nobody knows for sure.
This could be explained by the fact that corporations wear the pants on every single issue these days, including what's in your pizza at Domino's, and which fossil fuel power plant emission regulations have been weakened lately.
Congress? "Democrats"? No thank you. We need an inner awakening, the opposite of the kind that people are getting from big box preachers, slimy politicians, and airhead newsmen. At least some of the latter are showing us who they were. Some of us already knew, but not nearly enough.
29
" A biologist friend attributes this to a 50% decline in male sperm count since World War II, causing a lot of anxiety and the resulting compensations."
That hasn't seemed to slow down the above average, white privileged, liberal male, in the work place.
So, it's okay for someone with a Missouri driver's license to drive his Missouri-registered car in California, regardless of the differences in requirements between the two states (different emission standards, for one), but not for someone who meets the standards to carry a firearm in one state to carry it in another.
I would have thought that the "full faith and credit" requirement of the Constitution would be applied uniformly in the US.
I suppose that was too much to hope for.
15
@Eric Maine
I suppose it was too much to hope for that all the NRA proponents of GUNS R US 24 x 7 could possibly understand that because so many states have NO reasonable requirements for owning or carrying a firearm, residents of states that have more advanced notions about the place of guns in 21st century urban society might prefer, for once, to join those who stand on the platform of States' Rights and the 10th Amendment.
31
The Full Faith and Credit Clause applies to the results of judicial proceedings more than statutes. In fact the Supreme Court has ruled that states are not required to honor a statute of another state that conflicts with its own laws. For example, before Loving v Virginia, some states refused to recognize interracial marriages. The same was true for same-sex marriages. You're interpreting the clause too broadly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Faith_and_Credit_Clause
1
Eric,
Your argument does not hold up for several reasons including the fact that no state grants a driver's license to children or to anyone who can not pass a written test to demonstrate that they understand the rules of the road and a driving test to demonstrate competency and responsibility while operating a vehicle. Are you advocating that all states make these two things requirements for owning a gun?
2
It's like our leaders have time traveled from 1817 to 2017.
Conceal carry? Buy a gun and put it in your pocket? Then go to Buffalo Wild Wings and get drunk? Caress the gun in your pocket, beer after beer, mozzarella stick after mozzarella stick? This is what our leaders would say is OK? Yes, friend, please conceal that gun, and carry it -- carry that gun -- to your neighborhood Applebees, and enjoy your evening drinking blended margaritas, eating chicken fingers. Give your gun a secret pat on the back every now and again -- feel the power. The waiter won't know. Order another drink.
There is news today about a McDonald's employee who asked a fellow employee to hold onto his gun. Thankfully, the fellow employee informed the police and the guy was caught. Apparently, the guy may be serial killer. It's alleged he just decided to start shooting random people, four of them. And he asked his coworker to hold onto the gun. Our leaders want to enable people like this by making it easier for them to buy guns legally and just put it in their pocket, Missouri-style, like they just bought some beef jerky, and then waltz into your local dinner for a meal. Or walk into your local church for some prayer. Or walk into your kids school. Or whatever. Is this 1817? I feel like a crew of idiot cowboys have dressed up in thousand dollar suits and are making laws. They traveled through some worm-hole or something. It's like a bad science fiction novel, except it's really happening.
188
federal law already prohibits carrying a gun into an establishment that sells or dispenses alcohol so law abiding citizens won't. those who don't care about laws will anyway. once again, the law is already on the books.
It's worse than 1817. It was pretty difficult to have mass shootings with muzzle loaders (unless the victims stood in line behind each other).
4
It was safer in 1817 because almost all weapons were single shot muzzle loading.
2
Maybe it really is time for me to move to Costa Rica.....or maybe Belize....I know I'm too old to move to Canada........................sigh.......................
36
Maybe we retirees should move to Puerto Rico and help rebuild it. Probably still safer than most of the continental US and we can receive our Social Security there until they take it away. A simple concrete block house with a bit of garden would be fine with me and I bet there are plenty of medical retirees that would find it appealing as well!
1
Belize has one of the highest murder rates in the world, several times that of the US.
Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population per year
US - 10.54
Mexico - 7.64
Switzerland - 3.01
France - 2.83
Canada - 1.97
Belgium -1.82
Norway -1.75
Sweden - 1.47
Italy =1.31
Denmark - 1.28
Germany - 1.01
Australia - 0.93
Spain - 0.62
Netherlands = 0.58
United Kingdom - 0.23
Japan = 0.06
214
Firearm related death rates likely vary nearly as much between Americans of different national origins. What is the murder rate among Swedes in America?
3
I am an American who has lived in Hong Kong for 20 for work. I think our death rate is even lower than Japan. I have done searches and can't find any deaths (murders or suicides) by gun in Hong Kong. It is so wonderful to send our daughter to school and have no reason to fear a mass shooting during her math class. On the other hand, my sister in New Jersey, sat her daughter down and instructed her not to shelter in place, but rather, go out the classroom window and run zig zag to the nearest tree line and run all the way home if there was ever trouble at her high school. We feel safer in Hong Kong because we are safer in Hong Kong.
PS Hong Kong is not part of Japan. It is part of China. If I had a dime for every time my fellow Americans ask me if I have learned to speak Japanese in my 20 years in HK...
4
@KBronson
"Likely" is not the appropriate or intelligent response to a list of verified or at least verifiable statistics. Nor is the question "What is the murder rate among Swedes in America?"
These are red herrings thrown out by those who lack respect for facts or scientific inquiry. The real point to be made is that alone among developed nations, the United States is in thrall to gun culture and has a rate of firearm related deaths unthinkable in the developed world.
3
Why worry at all?Trump has his thumb on the nuclear button, and we'll all be destroyed.
Merry Christmas
50
Our once civil society is in shreds. Alas.
42
Gail, they are determined to wear us down. They think that we will eventually become so disheartened, so frustrated they we call Uncle, and give up. Not gonna happen. I have two granddaughters, Rose and Caelia. They are the great loves of my Life. All my hopes and dreams reside in them. The things I didn't do, the opportunities I passed up, the disappointments that came MY way. Like most Grandparents, I want a better life for them. Free from the threat of a random, rage filled Man that decides to go out in a BIG way. The most horrible and terrifying word: Random. Short of being in a gated community, with actual guards, 24/7 , they are at risk. THIS is not acceptable. We must stop this. I call on YOU, to lead all American Women to stop this ongoing Massacre. WE must change this. Women: I am begging you. Do NOT vote for ANY GOP candidate, in any election. Stand Up, and speak up. Silence is complicity.
The NRA is the greatest threat to YOUR children, and grandchildren.
Understand that simple fact, and take action. Only WE can stop this, and the time is now. Get motivated and vote. The lives of your loved ones are at stake. Do it for Them. Thank you.
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@Phyliss Dalmatian
Thank you, thank you for your passionate call to action.
Yes, when women organize to protect their families from threats, they can be fierce, powerful, successful.
Women banded together soon after the Newtown atrocity to form EveryTown for Gun Safety. https://everytown.org/
Women began working together to resist the abominations of the Trump presidency on November 9, 2016, and they have been marching, leaning on their elected representatives, making themselves heard, and running for elected office with renewed vigor ever since.
Until I read your cri de coeur, it had been years since I thought about
Another Mother for Peace. solution.http://anothermother.org/home It began in 1967 as a women's grass roots anti-war advocacy group and evolved into a powerful voice for peace that ultimately helped move the national debate on the war in Vietnam toward a peaceful solution.
Another Mother for Peace still exists, opposing all violence, including guns. Their model of activism could serve well in the battle to stop gun massacre and to literally disarm the toxic gun culture engulfing our country. Their motto is "War is not healthy for children and other living things" Substitute "Guns" for "War" and the motto of a powerful and united women's movement against firearms is at hand.
Bring this model together with EveryTown and other gun control organizations and we could surely topple the NRA.
Gail -- Can we call on you?
4
And if we can't succeed as loving grandparents, then encourage them to move to another more sensible country. If it is Canada, we can at least visit them there.
3
Maybe it's an acronym thing, this "greatest threat to your children":
NRA, MAGA, KKK, GOP, SCOTUS, POTUS, DJT - they all echo RIP.
So take your choice and vote against it, them. As we used to say, "Vote early,
and vote often."
2
The "murder capital of the country" this year is not Chicago but Sutherland Springs, TX. Next year it will be another small town somewhere. When one looks at deaths from firearms (many suicides) per population, nearly every state in the top 20 is a smallish population state that voted for Trump. (Alaska leads the way.) What is wrong with the people with power in America? And what is wrong with all those `ordinary Americans' who vote for these folks? They are all sick, sick, sick.
83
I thought it would have been Las Vegas.
1
"The "murder capital of the country" this year is not Chicago but Sutherland Springs, TX."
You're kidding, right?
Chicago had almost ten times that Texas count by mid year. It's now over 600. Last year it was almost 800. They have a month to go.
Gail, why waste your time and ink. Every republican has been bought by the NRA. There are more guns in the USA then people. Guns will never be taken away. But we should be able to say automatic weapons meant for the military are not allowed. Then maybe hundreds of people might not be killed or wounded by some madman.
28
The manufacture of new fully automatic weapons for other than law enforcement has been banned since 1986.
Obtaining a legal fully automatic weapon is a difficult process, and expensive.
1
But devices to modify semiautomatic weapons are still perfectly legal, so the ban is meaningless. Besides, there is no need for anyone outside of law enforcement or the military to own even semiautomatic weapons or high-capacity magazines, except that they want to, at the expense of the rest of us.
3
but converting a semi-automatic assault weapon to fully automatic with the bump stock is readily available technology.
This is an especially terrible week for people who care about community. I understand that the give and take of democracy can be scary, but every day I am discouraged to see what the "other side" is willing to push through, to put their name on. How can we find common ground when we have such opposing values?
52
Could we add an amendment to the constitution that members of Congress are not allowed to vote on a law that violates rationality and proven facts? Facts like the more mentally disturbed people have access to handguns and semi-automatic rifles, the more people are likely to die from those weapons? The sheer lunacy of the Republican party on this issue rivals the shenanigans of Trump this week, even though that's hard to do.
51
sure. set aside HIPPA and all medical privacy restrictions and mental health records will be available for background checks.
@John Woods
Facts? Proven facts? Sorry, but you missed the memo. Facts and rationality have no place in Trump World. We have even moved beyond "Alternative Facts".
Just this morning, Sarah Huckabee Sanders defended Trump's abhorrent re-tweets of a British white supremacist by telling reporters who insisted that the videos were fake that it didn't matter if they were false -- the threat was real.
2
Oh you're familiar with the amendments to the Constitution? Check out the second one.
The upsetting, depressing news keeps coming every single day. Still, some 40% of Americans support Trump and these policies. The only response is to beat these people at the polls at every opportunity. Some 90 million eligible Americans didn't vote in the 2016 election (while only 62 million voted for Trump and 64 million voted for Clinton). Your obligation to this democracy is to vote, so let's all go out and get more new voters to join us to oust these reactionaries. Yes, there is gerrymandering and voter suppression and the electoral college slant to overcome, but we really don't have any other choice. Go out, get engaged, and get more people to commit to participating in the next election.
53
My cataract-dimmed eyes read "get enraged" where you typed "get engaged." That works,too.
"If you count every gun crime that involves four or more victims as a mass shooting, we’ve had 397 so far this year, including the ungodly tragedies in Las Vegas and the small Texas church."
Good grief is right, Gail. Not only do our legislators give tactic approval of gun violence, they won't even allow it to be studied, much less curtailed.
According to present laws, We the People absolutely cannot be trusted with marijuana. But hey, we're totally good with assault weapons...
102
The House Judiciary Committee just voted to make it impossible for a state to always keep people convicted of violent offenses from carrying concealed weapons --- same group that things it is OK to deny the same group of Felons the right to vote permanently. Vote them OUT
55
Let's make sure any bill that expands gun toting rights includes the halls of Congress and the White House. As Rep. Louie G. said, exceptions to these laws are a bad thing. Allowing guns in Congress -- and I mean by all citizens, guests, etc. -- would eventually fix this nonsense, one way or the other.
68
Also, the SCOTUS--why should the justices be exempt?
Well I guess the Republicans are succeeding. The core ideology of the leaders and their voters is that government is the enemy. And now that they have control of the government virtually everything they do indicates that their thesis is correct.
45
The GOP is succeeding because of the 2010 gerrymander and voter suppression laws. We need to move our country toward a real democracy that reflects the will of the majority. That's going to take hard work, but it needs to be done.
Fringe ideas dominate the GOP in Congress because their gerrymandered districts are safe unless they're challenged from the right. That's also why they can't compromise, no matter how absurd the idea.
'Some people fix problems. Some just impose them on everybody else. Depends on the year."
Gail Collins probably would agree that it really depends on the political party.
The problem fixers tend to be Democrats. The problem imposers are usually Republicans.
And, that difference between Democrats, who try to solve problems, and Republicans, who try to cause problems, goes far beyond the issue of reasonable gun control.
33
Dems frequently avoid fixing problems, because they too are beholden to big money donors, & frequently they, themselves are obvious greed-heads. Dems are just as likely to be warmongers are well. However, unlike many Reps, they do at least give lip-service to non discrimination on the basis of race, national origin, gender or sexual preference & that's not nothing. It's just not enough, when the other really egregious flaws are still in the picture.
democrats are problem solvers? who knew?
you certainly win the prize for the most stupid generalization I've read this week.
Let's not forget that when Senator Dianne Feinstein had her way and banned scary looking black rifles for 10 years it literally had no impact on gun homicides. There was no decrease in gun crimes when the ban went into effect in 1994 and no increase in gun crime when it expired.
Legal conceal carry permit holders commit fewer crimes of all types, including gun crimes than the population at large. If politicians and DA's were serious about reducing gun homicides they would require law enforcement to stop and frisk the young males in poor urban neighborhoods who statistically do all the killing.
3
It's about the continued, nearly limitless proliferation of firearms in America. It only happens here, and it's happening more often. If politicians and DA's were serious, we'd start following the Swiss, Australian, Japanese, et all model, end the War on Drugs, and commence with a national buyback program. I'd suffer a tax hike to finance it
24
" If politicians and DA's were serious about reducing gun homicides they would require law enforcement to stop and frisk the young males in poor urban neighborhoods who statistically do all the killing."
They were doing this in New York City until civil liberties fanatics made them stop because it singled out one group for the searches. I'd bet those people are the same ones against gun ownership.
You're comparing apples and oranges. The number of mass shootings declined dramatically during the ban. The point of the law was not to ban "scary-looking black rifles," but to reduce the number of Columbines, which it did.
It sounds as though you think we should impose mandatory profiling of young blacks and Hispanics. Leaving aside the racism in that comment (and your outrageous claim that minority youth do all the killing) you're talking about a different problem. We need universal background checks in every state before we can control the flow of illegal guns.
I abhor gun violence, I am for strict controls at the point of sale, but I am a defender of the 34th Amendment that would include three missing words in the 2nd Amendment, "... EVERYWHERE AND ALWAYS ...".
The idea of to "make it impossible for states to impose their rules about carrying concealed weapons on people who are visiting from someplace else" is not that bad: carrying an open or, to a lesser extent, concealed weapon is a deterrent to the perpetrators of armed violence.
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Do you have any citations proving that openly carrying weapons is a deterrent to armed violence?
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@Tuvw Xyz
Thanks for contributing this bit of NRA agitprop, borrowed from the novels of Robert Heinlein, in particular Beyond This Horizon and Red Planet.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Heinlein's novels were/are great fantasy. But most people move beyond them and their fantastical societal constructs before finishing high school.
That the NRA has managed to use this quote as one of its magical incantatory slogans is not surprising. That adults are take in by such nonsense is both depressing and sickening.
Then again, at least Heinlein was a better writer than Wayne LaPierre, who coined these gems, which also serve as rallying cries and mantras for the gun-addled:
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”
"Guns don't kill people; people kill people"
The only thing that will stop all this mindless twaddle and the gun slaughter it encourages is a return to reality and a repeal of the wrongheaded SCOTUS
decision in Heller v DC. Heller is perhaps the single worst SCOTUS decision after Dredd Scott.
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Oh please. The “missing words” are: Use Your Brain.
I just got back from a trip. Everybody in an airport gets treated like a criminal because somebody *might* have a gun or a knife or a bomb or a wine corkscrew -- but everybody looking to buy a gun is treated like an innocent newborn lamb. Insanity.
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" but everybody looking to buy a gun is treated like an innocent newborn lamb. Insanity."
Sure. That's why every buyer has to fill in a Form 4473 and the FBI NICS line is called before you can complete the purchase. Such trust.
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Yes, because anybody interested in buying a gun is obviously a budding mass murderer.
If Congress really believes that authorized responsible citizens carrying concealed weapons makes the country safer, then I invite them to remove their metal detectors and security from their buildings. Until they do this, I'll treat this as just another example of pandering and hypocrisy.
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States Rights anyone?
Whatever happened to the conservative concern for the expansion of federal powers at the expense of the autonomy of the states?
Oh never mind. I forgot that we are at the confluence of expediency and corruption and good old fashioned stupidity. Silly me!
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When I travel through another state in which I am not a resident, I am engaged in actual genuine interstate commerce.
Not really, at least not in the federally regulated sense. But I'm not sure why you would invoke interstate commerce since federal law trumps state law.
State's rights are treated the same as a deficit - depends on who pays the most to the elected official. Right now the N R A and corporations/1% are in charge.
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To Baltimore forwarded earlier the NYT video of an American visit to North Korea with 'intense, not for the faint of heart, I wish this were a movie'. From Baltimore 'Yup, was just watching now and the Nation is going on about Matt Lauer?'
Let us continue to break down our Society, enforce the notion that men are more powerful than women, and women to go on a witch hunt. Cause a divide on all levels, and destroy the Press, etc'.
There is little hope of Gun Control at this rate. This American will never vote for a Republican again. Our Police Force is visible. Why not have far more Undercover and Armed Cops these days placed everywhere at concerts and other 'hot zones', while America recovers from its breakdown.
The Thanksgiving exchange between the playwright and the deer hunter was cordial, where the former used bows and arrows in his youth; the latter went on about all kinds of bullets.
Mr. Otter is angry because the Democrats want to take our guns away. He feels that 'better screening' is necessary to ensure that the Applicant is A+1 Okay. What if it depends on the year.
It happened here where America was once relatively sane, before it went bonkers.
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The last time I recall -- maybe my constitutional law is a little rusty -- that one state's laws immunized people from the laws of another state where there chose to go was when the master of the enslaved Dred Scott brought him to a free state, Illinois, and his master claimed he was still a slave. The Supreme Court agreed in 1857 (in a case that some say helped bring on the civil war), so there's a terrific precedent for gun holders to claim that Congress can trump states' decisions on their own laws.
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Federal law always trumps state law, so no precedent is needed. But no congressman voting for this law can claim to support states' rights.
Article IV (Article 4 - States' Relations)
Section 1
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
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Thank you
Remember when this was approvingly cited to force states to recognize other states gay marriages before the SCOTUS decision?
Repeal the 2nd Amendment. It is obsolete. It's premise clause is a lie, because a "well regulated militia" is NOT necessary(...). Militias are not used - haven't been for well over a century, never have been necessary, and as a matter of military strategy or philosophy it is a recipe for failure on a battlefield: Look at the consequences of reliance on militias at the start of the Civil War.
It remains "The Founder's Folly."
Imagine the folly if the Founders believed it appropriate to enshrine economic rights they felt necessary at the time of the Bill of Rights:
"Gravel paved roads, being necessary for a well functioning economy, the right of the citizens to own and operate horse drawn wagons shall not be infringed."
... Obviously we've long ago moved on. But making it possible for people to use horse drawn wagons everywhere in our society is raving nuts. It's even nuttier to carry and use guns everywhere. Our country has long ago moved on from protecting our security with militias.
Repeal the 2nd.
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Good points. The Second Amendment was partly a sop to slave states, where state militias were used to control the slave population, which generally outnumbered the free population. It's another ugly anachronism from our slave past.
Do you also want to repeal Article IV, Sec. 1 of the Constitution?
It is obsolete. It's premise clause is a lie, because a "well regulated militia" is NOT necessary(...). Militias are not used - haven't been for well over a century,
=====================
Baloney - the militia is alive and well in US law. You might even be a member.
10 USC 246 - Militia composition and classes
The weird thing is that the NRA isn't that big, and doesn't have the lobbying $ of, say, an Exxon. So why are is it such a political force?
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The NPR show Marketplace did a great segment on how well organized the NRA is. They do a good job of getting people to call politicians.
Because in reality the NRA represents gun manufacturers, whose pockets are exceedingly deep.
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NAACP 300,000 members, ACLU 1.2 million members,
NRA 5 million members.
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I am wondering if Congress would allow all visitors to carry guns - it would avoid the need for those metal detectors and might even improve the substance of debate.
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But for some reason I just can't imagine, Congress won't get around to allowing concealed carry in the US Capitol Building or the White House.
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They should. Concealed carry is allowed in the Texas State Capitol Building
When will the madness end? How did these people ever get elected? And who but the most ignorant, short-sighted deplorable could every support them?
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Difficult to say who is the crazier, this Republican President or Republican Congressmen. I'm thinking the Congressmen win this one. They at least know they are crazy, just well-compensated by the NRA, which means they are a whit saner than their leader who hasn't a clue and doesn't need the pittance of millions the NRA provides him.
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I almost wish I hadn't read this, since it got no coverage on the news.
So let me get this straight: when people come to visit California or Massachusetts, they can conceal an arsenal inside their wide-legged pants, and "nah, nah, you can't arrest us."
Wait: maybe this problem is overblown after all. As partisan as we've become, and now this gun law, well, maybe nobody will ever travel outside their own state or region of the country.
There, problem solved. Of course, that's for vacation--what about work travel? I guess that depends on if you work for a gun manufacturer (or the NRA).
OK, so we won't be safer, unless you buy the argument that only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with one too. Or something like that.
You, know, war with North Korea is suddenly sounding more reasonable than this new round of gun laws.
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Why is it that the Republicans are always saying they promote states' rights, but they won't let a state have the right to decide who gets to carry a concealed weapon?
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The Hypocrites R Us support red 'states rights', Linda....not blue 'states rights'.
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They are selective about which rights, for which people, in which states. They want states rights for voting and abortion and contraception and (probably) age of sexual consent; they want federal rules for guns and health insurance across state lines so they can sell defective merchandise to the unwilling and unknowing.
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We DO support States rights. Oklahomans and New Yorkers get to decide the rules for Oklahomans and New Yorkers but if I am traveling there from Louisiana I am engaged in interstate commerce and that is a federal matter. That is the basis of the '64 civil rights act.
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When I was a boy in a small town in California, most of us had a gun, usually a single shot 22 rifle, for shooting rattlesnakes and jack rabbits, and even a squirrel. but it turned out some of the squirrels had bubonic plague so we left them alone after that,
Guns were for hunting and putting food on the table, deer was quite popular there then. No one that we knew carried a six shooter, they may have had one in the house, but even in a town that had been a roughneck one because of the mines, and two bars per block, that just was not a concern.
Now we have a nation of humanoids that think their manhood depends on being able to carry a gun for self defense. They can not even go to the market without feeling threatened by some unknown shopper in the meat department. I does not occur to them that if someone is targeting them, it is too late. And now the congressional cowards want to make it easy for mad men to have easy access to guns, so when they become rabid they can murder anyone in their way. The NRA ha become a terrorist organization, and its followers have become complicit in the murder of thousand of innocent people.
These politician supporters are corrupted by the NRA's money, they do not give damn, as long as the money rolls in. So what if a few kids in a school get shot up, their lunatic gun owners need another assault weapon to protect themselves against an outdoor C&W concert, or some imagined foe. All to satisfy their defective ego.
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This fear that rules these people is a sign of shared paranoid psychosis. And it is reaching a dangerous level in the US. And if the far right gains more influence everywhere it will reach a pandemic level. This is the goal of Chaos.
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I blame Matt Lauer. For every issue that galvanizes the public, there must be one straw that breaks the camel’s back on the public attention span. As a people we have too little capacity to focus on one issue for too long before we need our jaded outrage-nerves to pivot to another source of excitation. Matt Lauer did it: blame him.
And what issue is better than gun control to gin-up reinvigorated outrage?
I can’t believe that WY carry-rights will be imposed on NYC. The main argument rational people use for more permissive gun rights in less populous venues is that the sheer number of human interactions is so low that far less potentially explosive friction is created than in densely-populated cities. Can you imagine a white WY rancher unknowingly strolling north along Manhattan Ave. at 108th St. with a concealed gun? He looks like he’s going to pull his piece to protect himself from the astounded looks his presence occasions, they’ll be giving out cupie dolls for whoever lands the most nine-MM hits on him from the rooftops. Particularly on a high-summer night when the air conditioning breaks down.
And OF COURSE the NRA is in favor of allowing Missourians to wander around California with guns. There aren’t that many Missourians to put at risk, and America always can be improved by fewer Californians. This is a no-brainer.
The bill won’t clear Congress: it’s just TOO moronic; and New Yorkers, like everyone else, deserve to go to hell in their own handbaskets.
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The much better topic commanding the outrage of every compassionate and Constitutionally supporting American right now is the tax juggernaut the GOP is ramming down our throats, in order to gut Medicare and Social Security after consigning the concept of upward mobility for US low and middle earners to the scrap-pile of history forevermore.
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You really think "The bill won’t clear Congress: it’s just TOO moronic;" ? How do we hold you to that ?
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"The bill won’t clear Congress: it’s just TOO moronic..."
A year ago we would have agreed with you.
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its really sad, I am really starting to think about how nice it would be to live in another english speaking country that doesn't have so much homicidal stupidity... if they wouldn't be afraid to have a retired american move there.
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Other countries are pretty strict about letting people in past their prime working years.
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You can only go for half a year to most of those places unless you have a firm job offer and can get a work visa. One of my neighbors here in Maine has a son who with his whole family spends half the year in New Zealand. A long trip to make twice a year, but evidently worth it for many who can afford it. And one retired person I know spends three months in Ireland followed by three months in Spain (lots of people speak English there) since that is all that is allowed per year for older people.
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Australia or Canada are looking pretty good.
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Seriously, I'm beginning to feel like I need just to ostrich myself, get away from all the insanity coming out of Washington....
Merry Christmas one and all....
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There are other recent examples of gun deaths, too. In Florida, a suspect has now been arrested for a series of murders which were committed with a legally purchased gun. And this past weekend, a woman in upstate New York was shot to death walking her dogs when a hunter mistook her for a deer.
More guns in circulation mean more deaths, not more heroics.
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The scariest thing about the New York shooting is that she was only 100 yards from her house, and hunting after dark is illegal. This neighbor needs to be locked up for manslaughter and his right to won a gun taken away for ever. But it won't happen.
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My fellow Democrats need to realize that restricting WHAT is owned and carried is not only a loser, it's not going to save very many lives. It would be far better to drop everything but bump stocks and focus instead on WHO can own and carry, and more strong enforcement of existing laws. We've already seen that had the Air Force been relentless in following both military and federal law, Devin Kelley would not have simply been able to walk into a gun store and buy a slew of firearms and pass the background check.
Enforcement of EXISTING laws, that's what we need.
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Existing law would have let Devin Kelley, had he flunked a background check in a gun store, to simply walk out and head for the nearest gun show and buy that very same weapon, no questions asked. Plenty of those “gun shows” are simply buying guns out of the trunk of somebody’s car in a parking lot somewhere.
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We need to attack the proliferation of deaths by gun, by multiple angles. It's not just enough to enforce laws about WHO can own, when many will simply circumvent the law and purchase weapons illegally, or even make their own (which is apparently LEGAL to do and is UNregulated!). So long as there are ARs available for the GENERAL PUBLIC to LEGALLY purchase, there runs the chance that ARs will get into the wrong hands. NO private citizen needs an AR, for ANY reason. Ditto for bumpstocks. Or 1000s rounds of ammo, which Paddock was able to LEGALLY purchase and amass. The US is a sick country, plain and simple, with regards to its 'love' of guns.
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My fellow Democrat - you need to quit drinking the gun lobby's hypocritical Kool Aid. For decades they have preached enforcing existing laws, while busily lobbying to undo those same laws.
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If this law passes, can everyone from the gun toting states carry their concealed weapons around DC? with their 9% approval rating, I would think members of congress would consider the consequences.
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" ... I've got a little list,
They never will be missed,
Noo, they never will be missed!"
-G&S, The MIkado
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Why not ban all guns except handguns that are clearly for target shooting or non-automatic rifles for hunting? When people bemoan their loss, offer them thoughts and prayers.
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No state allows hunting with automatic weapons.
Nicely said, Mike. Thank you.
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Because, Mike, unlike yourself, there are millions of folks out there who have legitimate, legal uses for all the firearms you fear and loathe. Will you be the one deciding what constitutes "target shooting" and "hunting"? Keep your prayers, and your thoughts too for that matter.
I've been a firearms enthusiast, hunter, sport shooter and 2A supporter most of my 68 years. I once got a speeding ticket, and have jaywalked and got away with it. I've also borne arms in the nation's defense during wartime, and that includes you. If you want to go after a national obsession that degrades us mentally, morally and monetarily, first look at golf.
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A real downer, but important. Can few get more information on the NRA? On gun manufacturers? It was helpful to see the NYT list of how much the NRA has provided Congress over the years. With that kind of money flowing into Congress, our measly $25 contributions mean nothing.
More info, please: who are the manufacturers? Where are they located? Are they all closely held corps? Who are the presidents? How many employed there? What's their role in a local economy? Who makes guns for the military? So much we seem to not know.
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seriously? most of your questions have had answers in daily news and then there is that funny thing called Google that does a pretty good job answering questions.....
Usually, Gail, your column helps me smile or sometimes even laugh. But now there's little to feel good about. How long will it take Mueller to help us out of this nightmare?
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We need more than Mueller. Apres Trump, there is still Pence and a Congressional GOP majority. Vote out the loony tunes next year.
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If we get stuck with Pence and Ryan the suffering will grow even worse.
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The Second Amendment is clear:
"A well regulated dementia, being necessary to the paranoid security, record gun sales and NRA campaign contributions of a murderous, corrupt Russian-Republican state, the right of peaceful people to be randomly slaughtered by a male mental defective with a gun fetish and a mood swing, shall not be infringed."
Yet another GOP Death Panel lurches forward in the American insane asylum.
Nice GOPeople.
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Schoolhouse Rock got it wrong. The difference between the House and the Senate has nothing to do with how a bill becomes law. It’s that the Senate is full of malevolent, self-serving conservative zealots, and the House is an insane asylum for people who are off their meds.
Somehow, eight years of President Obama, by all accounts a decent, thoughtful, intelligent and empathetic human being, so revolted a significant minority of the resentfully uninformed that some sort of massive overcorrection was required. So they elected an ignorant doofus as their president, along with some representatives who truly represented their deepest (and scariest) feelings.
Voila! We’ve got thieves in Congress putting the finishing touches on a tax bill that will eat their supporters alive, and any that remain standing risk being shot by psychopaths walking the streets better armed than Arnold Schwarzenegger in Predator. To them, all is right with the world. Far right.
Guns are required by people who are afraid, and fear is often irrational. See the connection? So the irrationally fearful need guns, and that means guns must be available at all times, in huge numbers, to everyone. If psychopaths get their hands on them, well, it’s an omelet-egg sort of thing. Gotta expect some breakage.
We live in a bump-stock, auto-reload high-capacity magazine kind of world, and there are lots of invisible threats that need to be killed. Congress is just doing their part.
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I just couldn't pass your comment without saying that this is one of the best I've ever seen...succinct, intelligent, profound, and basically perfect! I know we're preaching to the choir here, but thank you!
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You and a few others in this forum keep me from complete and utter despair. Keep writing!
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Tell you, it’s getting hard to read the news every day. There are times you just have to look away.
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No, people of conscience don’t have the luxury of turning away. When we become complacent about the outrages of the day, it is the equivalent of of endorsing them!
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The current administration and its minions want people to be so disgusted and fed up that they look away, and ignore what's going on. When fewer people involve themselves in the election process, fewer votes are needed to put completely unqualified people into government. Unfortunately, it's working like a charm.
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Their is no other way to say it but to say that the Republican party has become a terrorist party of the willing to let people died from guns, lack of health insurance, starved to death by cutting off food stamps, taking insurance away from children, and on and on. I never though this once great country could become such a heartless country. Sad.
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