America is coming home. Pay whatever small price you need and get on board. As liberals like to say, "The train is leaving the station".
I just can't believe there are comments regarding the deficit.
Where were these voices in the past 8 years of the Obama administration, who singularly took the deficit from about $10 Trillion to $20 Trillion, doubling all the presidents before him. It's obvious that the mediocre average of GDP growth through the same period indicated that administration was also woefully weak on Economic Strategy.
What is wrong with my country? We are collapsing our democracy inch by inch, folding and tucking it carefully away so that we can become an oligarchy just like Russia, a country whose policies only serve the ultra rich, while the middle class and underclasses fall ever further behind.
And to those of you who are in the 1%, who need more and more and more to feel alive I say only this: History will not look kindly on your greed and your avarice. You disgust me and millions more like me who can read between your lines, while you squirrel away your billions, much of it off-shore where it benefits only you--not your fellow citizens, not your country.
And to you fellow Americans who voted for these Senators and these representatives, who voted for this President I ask, are you all really this stupid, this placid, this apathetic, this easily led? The answer appears to be apparently so. Good luck to you all, American sheep.
8
Opposition voices?? Democrats...where are you??
2
The American people need to see the outcomes of tax plans that skew the benefits to the very rich at the expanse of the majority with no thought to the effects of high deficits. Oh wait, they saw that play out in 2007. Millions lost their jobs, their homes, their credit ratings, their retirement savings. The wealthy had the capitol to benefit by buying up undervalued real estate and stocks.
This is the same song and dance. Cutting taxes for the rich to create jobs didn't work in the past and it won't work now. Those very rich individuals will put those giant tax gains into safe investments, perhaps overseas. Middle class Americans will lose their buying power in an effort to keep a roof, food and healthcare.
When the magic "economic growth" fails to appear, Republicans will announce that the only way to solve the problem is for the poor and middle class lose Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security income. Services that have been paid for by taxing the wages of those same people.
We live in an Oligarchy, ruled by and benefiting only the very wealthy. The stupid thing is that, at least for now, Americans have the right to vote against that system.
10
Trump voters, are you happy now? If you have just any doubt don't think with your brain but watch Fox News or read Breitbart because they will tell you that Santa is coming soon for all of you.
5
I'm sick and tired of Republican lies.
They insult our intelligence every time they open their mouths.
8
"You can keep your doctor"
2
Susan Collins is gutless. She's lost all credibility. Just another Trumpster in sheep's clothing.
7
I can hardly believe the Senate is debating 'triggers' in the tax bill. Hello! This is 2017 and the concept of feedback and cybernetics went mainstream about half century, or more, ago. The idea that a system as complex as the US economy can be 'managed' by 'setting tax rates once every 20 years' is ludicrous. Does the Federal Reserve control the money supply by setting interest rates once every 20 years? They realize complex systems need continuous monitoring, and their feedback and correction systems help them accomplish their objectives. Feedback and adjustments to tax rates should also be an integral part of the US tax code framework.
3
Kind of like a condemned person feels headed to death row, knowing that while having not committed the crime he/she is going to be executed because the jury was misinformed by a poor defense and a win no matter what prosecution. Helplessly watching a terribly unjust act being taken against oneself by people who are just indifferent about the consequences to all others.
4
The scope of the injustices being committed in furtherance of having one promise to donors fulfilled is just awesome.
Graduate students who have struggled to get by on tiny incomes will be taxed in amounts that they just cannot produce for the value of grants used to pay for the work that they do but which never has gone to them in actuality.
Families struggling to get by while paying for medical bills which they can no longer deduct against income taxes.
Families living in the big coastal megalopolis regions unable to deduct their mortgage payments in full.
Big states which contribute more to the federal government than they receive back having their tax payers actual tax rates skyrocket. Similarly, the high income people most likely to live in those states not given the tax relief given to those most likely to live in red states. Republicans deliberately screwing people who live in Democratic majority states.
Debt that will skyrocket far beyond their projected 2 trillion because the economy cannot grow fast enough just by moving more capital into the existing supplies while most people are not appreciating significantly greater new wealth under current conditions.
To run successfully for office, office holders depend upon vast amounts of campaign funds to run marketing ads which will motivate complacent voters to choose themselves. If the voters ever bother to actually learn who is and is not serving their interests, the value of the donors would evaporate.
3
While the wealth transfer of the tax plan is hiding in plain sight, I’m surprised that people haven’t made more of the sheer danger of it.
We’re doing a huge, deficit-financed stimulation of the economy late in the business cycle, with most of the benefits going to rich investors. That by itself invites speculation. And we’ve paired it with repeal of Dodd-Frank and anything else that might protect against bad behavior. It seems an excellent recipe for a repeat of 2008 or worse.
6
These tax bills for the senate and house have a commonality. Both include and enhance Ryan's revenge in the wake of the Romney/Ryan loss due in part to a statement about the lower 57% of incomes who do not pay Federal taxes. The truth was that a family of four with an income like the lower 57% would not owe any tax. Ryan has now made sure they will not escape again. These bills provide a handout to the 1% but use fees and fee enforcement to ensure that people with adjusted incomes of $75000 or less pay for part of it. Ryan has his revenge and over 400 billionaires will be able to buy another island in another part of the world. Jobs .....oops. Common sense and any economist with the ability to test will show you that gifts are not invested in a competitive process, they are pocketed. Ryan has his revenge and 99% of us will have to pay for it.
3
It was 47%
And never mind that they pay a wide range of "taxes" in fees, sales taxes, Social Security and Medicare, and other charges that come to them because the government has grossly reduced their benefits and figured out regressive ways to charge them.
Shameless!
Not sure why senate Republicans are so beholden to the threats of a President that has historically low ratings and is clearly showing signs of mental dysfunction (not exaggerating her...just look at his daily tweets and where his attention drifts).
Trump apparently believes all his 'base' cares about is a giant wall, and that tax increases, lack of health insurance, loosening of environmental and banking regulations are minor issues to Americans. Make America Great? We are hastily heading in the other direction.
3
To Shannon of Spring Creek: What spreadsheet? Let's see it. Meantime, NV and other desert/inland states take far more from the feds than hardworking people on the coasts put into it. It's about time for that inequity to change. No, it's past due.
4
This Tax bill is Trickle UP Economics, Trickle down is just another Republican distortion of Tax Cuts for their wealthy donors.
The middle class will always pay for these cuts for the wealthy.
This is not Tax Reform, it is a gift to the wealthiest republican donors.
Reprehensible to have Tax reform without a debate from both sides of the aisle.
3
If this passes, I’ll consider incorporating myself and my family because my taxes will go up, a big Republican no-no. I’ll save money, even after attorney’s and accounting fees by incorporating.
3
Here is what I don't understand about many of Trump's and indeed Republicans supporters. Though not exclusively, I think that many of those supporters were supporters of the TEA party movement. The acronym TEA meaning Taxed Enough Already. They were started as a result of the Big Wall St bank bailout which occurred in 2007 but was signed by President Obama in 2008. This bill and indeed the Republican party in general have been working tirelessly to undo the rules and regulations put in place to prevent that from happening again. How do his supporters many of whom were former Tea Party folks reconcile what they were for then as opposed to the party's actions now?
1
How skewed is this bill to the top? According to the TPC's analysis of the Senate bill:
Top 1%: 18% of the benefit in 2019, 22% in 2025 and 62% in 2027.
Top 5% 42% of the benefit in 2019, 47% in 2025 and 77% in 2027.
Top 20%: 63% in 2019, 64% in 2025, and 90% in 2027.
Bottom 80%: 37% in 2019, 36% in 2025, and 10% in 2027.
Contrast that with Obama, who raised taxes on the top 5% to fund health insurance subsidies or Medicaid for 20 million people.
What a contrast!
1
What I looked at showed no benefit for the lower brackets in fewer years.
1
I've said it from the get-go and I'll say it again. The Republicans will not pass a tax reform plan. Saying something "will be addressed" and actually addressing it are two very different things. Already we see that the "automatic tax trigger" is opposed by the Koch brothers. Think their minions in the House will be OK with voting for it? Collins is told she can offer an amendment. Offering it and getting it passed are two very different things. Will she balk if her plan fails? And for some reason, I keep thinking that McCain and Flake are going to ultimately say no just because they can.
2
I ran last year's tax return of my middle-class household thru the Senate plan, and I estimate that mu household will have to pay close to $3,000 more in taxes. This is because we itemize and are losing the deductions for: personal exception (4,000 per person), property taxes, state and local taxes, medical expenses and student loan interest to name a few. Raising the standard deduction to $24,000 will not compensate for the loss of all the deductions.
In the mean time corporations can deduct all the expenses and get a lower tax rate to boot. Billionaires will benefit big time by the repeal of the AMT and estate taxes.
I wouldn't mind a tax increase if it goes to worthwhile causes such as healthcare for all and education. But it makes my blood boil to think that my taxes will go up to subsidize the 1% and rich corporations which have record profits now.
3
You sir, deduct too much.
Gee, I wonder if I could get a catered lunch for my family as we discuss all the things we won't be able to afford for the next several years. Of course, that lunch would be paid for by Congress, since we paid for theirs.
3
I love the part about the an automatic trigger to increase taxes if revenues are not as high as projected.
"Tax cuts will generate more revenue"
"Ok, can we put a trigger to increase taxes in case they don't"
"Noooo"
1
At this point, all Democrats need to ask loud and repeatedly, "How are you going to pay for?" Bernie Sanders is asking that question right now. Make them go on record promising NOT to reduce Social Security and Medicare benefits or raise the age to start receiving benefits or convert Medicare to a lump sum voucher or any other sneaky way of undermining the most important benefits of American citizenship that working people pay for, deserve and rely on. The particulars of the tax bills don't matter nearly as much as this. When the government takes in less revenue and the debt explodes, cuts will have to be made and we know those cuts won't be to the military-industrial complex. .
2
Well, the donors did tell the Rs "Pass this bill or not get any money for the next election." Guess the Rs are listening to their real constituents instead of the people they're supposed to be serving as required by the Constitution. I mean - it's a lot easier to listen to 4000 super-rich people than 330 million, right? After all, they're only people with limited skill sets; we can't POSSIBLY ask them to stretch their imaginations or learn new skills in order to serve everybody, right?
Why aren't more seniors speaking up against these bills. The much touted increase in the standard deduction is almost exactly equal to the current standard deduction plus the existing personal exemption and exemption for those over 65, so no benefit there if you don't itemize. We still don't know what the final tax brackets and rates will be, but it doesn't seem from what we have seen so far that new brackets and rates will result in any large tax decrease for most moderate income seniors. The attack on the more prosperous blue states with higher taxes is blatant and makes no sense since these are states with the most vibrant economies and already pay more in federal taxes than they receive back in federal dollars. The most likely resulting increases in structural deficits will have to paid for by reducing Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid benefits we are dependent on. If you don't touch military spending (or increase it) there is not enough money in other federal expenses - even if you eliminated most other government programs - to make up these projected deficits. A bad deal for our nation and our future.
1
Well, now that she apparently wants to bask in Trump's shadow, so much for all the hype about Susan Collins having conviction.
1
So it either balloons the deficit, or when there is a recession it raises taxes which is the worst thing that can be done during a recession.
Have they even consulted economists? Oh yeah, I forgot, they don't believe in science.
2
This tax bill is indecent. It is grotesque. I used to think a very long time ago that there were Republicans out there with a social conscience. Even the odious Richard Nixon (for one) at least supported Planned Parenthood. That was the distant past. No more will I entertain the notion that any Republican has a moral compass.
I do not want one Republican to utter the word "deficit" ever again. I do not want one Republican to talk about being a fiscal conservative. What usually happens when Republicans are in power, is they create a fiscal mess, and blame it on the Democrats. No doubt when things begin to go south, we will hear the name President Obama being mentioned as the one responsible for whatever quagmire they beget.
All you out there who are extremely wealthy have a Merry Christmas, which I am certain you will without one thought to people who will no longer be able to afford health care insurance, and as the poor and Middle Class are gouged in order to continue to support you in the style to which you are accustomed.
If this tax bill passes, and it looks as though it will, the social safety nets will be next as we slide into an oligarchy. After all there will have to be cuts to afford the tax benefits for the wealthy. Where is there a Democratic voice raised in our defense? All I get are emails asking for more money.
I am so discouraged.
These tax changes go into effect in 2019 and continue into the future. By then the Democrats will be back in power and can pass bills to correct the imbalances. Nothing Congress does is permanent. That consoles me. Or is that fallacious?
1
"... after gaining assurances from Mr. Trump and the Republican leadership that their worries would be addressed."
And - we believe that ?
2
This will be a disaster for me if it goes through, a grad student at an expensive but well-respected school. I live on 2000 a month currently and would see a ~$10,000 tax increase.
That, aside from the fact that it hurts pretty much everyone, is a terrible idea according to every economist, preserves loopholes for the rich and famous, and is a complete scam.
2
The NYT reporting on universities with huge endowments like Stanford
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/world/universities-offshore-investmen...
Apple and the other, largest companies in the country
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/world/apple-taxes-jersey.html
and the super-rich and their lawyers
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/30/business/economy/for-the-wealthiest-p...
show how little they pay in taxes in the aggregate. The new tax ceilings—20% for the biggest companies, 35% for the super-rich—won’t be honored by either entities, they will only find it almost twice as easy either to find new loopholes or, like Paul Manafort and Trump himself—we know what those tax returns he so zealously hides would reveal—will pay less by ignoring and flouting these laws. So the 1.5 trillion dollar figure that’s constantly cited is misleading insofar as it assumes that 20% and 35%—the other constantly cited figures in stories about the law—will be what large corporations and the super-rich and greedy will actually pay in taxes. The new tax code will only make it almost twice as easy for them to avoid paying even more. That 1.5 trillion dollars will be twice that, not even counting what experts on tax reform legislation say will happen to the budget in a few years if everyone actually adheres to the new guidelines.
I guess Bob Corker will continue to vote the party line regardless of the damage that this will do to his constituents along with the rest of the country! VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT! You do not have have anything to lose as you have announced that you will not run again. Therefore sir, act like a legislator and not a party liner.
1
Well, many current Trump supporters will see their taxes go up and benefits go down. They might be mad enough then to rebel and vote democratic in 2020 or even in 2018. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.
2
Every senator has his or her price! So much for our so-called democracy.
Very few of the GOP Senators have the majority of their constituents in mind where this scam of a tax plan is considered; hopefully their constituents will return the favor the next time each one of them comes up for reelection.
It bothers me that the report of the Congressional Budget Office is not even taken into account here. If Congress wants to just do away with the agency it set up to provide impartial analysis then what is left for it to get its "facts" and "rationale" from Breitbart, Fox, and Conservative Daily?
The sleep of reason breeds monsters.
2
If you want to be mad at someone, start with the Bernie supporters that did NOT vote for HRC.
Had they simply gone to the polls and voted for HRC, none of this nightmare would be occurring.
N.b., recent studies show Bernie supporters that did not vote for HRC made the difference.
Also had Bernie not even entered the Democratic primary race sewing division HRC would have won
Politics is chess not checkers or marbles
2
A long time ago we rebelled against a King for placing a tax on tea. This time we have more power than we could ever imagine. The right wing extremists have used social media to insert their Pretend King Trump (although not quite sure GOP did not buy the electoral voters). We can do the same this Holiday. If this tax bill passes, we should demonstrate this power by not buying from corporations who supported this bill nor from businesses owned by elitists supporting this bill. Who knows, we may finally drain the swamp ourselves.
2
I can no longer afford my mortgage and RE taxes here in NJ. I have been trying to sell my house for over 2 years now. Because of my so-so rated school district, and even though my neighborhood has beautiful homes and large lots, sales are in a depression. Prices are as low as in 2009 here. No recovery! I pay $32000 in RE Taxes. NBC News last night said high-end homes in NY/NJ/Calif could lose 15% in value without the current state tax deduction. I CANNOT afford my income taxes if I lose that deduction, and I will lose perhaps $150K in value on my home in an area that is already in a housing market depression. And even though I have a larger home, too large for my current income, I am certainly not above middle class based on my income and assets. This tax bill, as is, is not an increase for me.... it is suicide ... like a bullet in my head ... and I VOTED for TRUMP. I have supported him from day ONE!
1
This is a real bummer for the Democrats like me. But, there are winners and losers in every economic switcheroo, so I think I'll take my tax savings and invest in a good foreign equity index fund. I still like being a winner, even if my favorite candidates aren't in office.
Welfare for corporations and welfare for the wealthy = this tax reform bill.
As a foreigner, I can't help but be baffled at the American public's apparent appetite for policy that is so evidently bad for almost everyone. Is there such a thing as Stockholm Syndrome on a national scale?
2
Didn't we learn the lesson bailing out businesses with the 07-08 crash? Recall how, was it AIG, got hundreds of billions of dollars then turned right around to pass it out as bonuses; there was even something about running off on Vegas junkets with our tax dollars. Nothing would be different with this scheme since injecting them with money, even if they did refurbish with it, wouldn't do anything but send market shares sideways out of their competitors market share w/o an increase in demand preceding it. You don't even have to be an economist to process that logic. As everyone knows Demand gets its biggest source from below, out of people who'll spend the money because they're struggling while above, they'll only slam it into their personal accounts which reveals to us that this scheme is nothing but a money laundering. "A rose by any other name ...." And its all the GOP has since we've seen how the treat EPA, IRS and Consumer Protection, they're hostile to all these institutions while funneling money to their contributors under the guise on growing the economy. Just fundamentally dishonest and corrupt .. and that's even w/o Trump's brand of Crazy included. Its perfectly transparent, they're not representing us, they're syndicate operative shills for wealthy interests. These things write themselves.
Every single republican who votes for this monstrosity deserves to pay the price. Not just in the loss of his or her seat -- and most certainly in the loss of his or her seat -- but in the loss of their own and their families' health care coverage, and in the loss of their own and their families' deductions, and in the decrease in value of their own and their families' assets (for most of the middle class who live in high tax, high cost of living states, this would be limited to their home equity). They are so out of touch, so lacking in compassion and empathy, so blinded by their corporate and wealthy overlords and masters, that they are preparing to destroy our economy and our nation. This is an abomination from which this country will not recover. I will travel to Maine (an easy jaunt to make every weekend from now until Collins's re-election race in 2020) and to Wisconsin (Johnson is up for re-election in 2018) and to Tennessee (to make sure another republican is not elected to Corker's seat) and anywhere else in the country to ensure that reprehensible non-representatives are unseated, and that the seats vacated by repugnicans are won by Dems.
1
How can anyone in the middle class be so disconnected from reality as to support this travesty?
Citizens United is right up there with Plessy and Dred Scott.
I cannot believe this is happening.
I cannot believe it.
18
The populus is now so dumb that it may not even notice it's worse-off right away. It's not studying this bill. When it is asked again for austerity, time will have passed and the Democrats will be to blame.
Pathetic. Our government has become criminal. They aren't representing people that vote, they are representing corporations that contributed (read "paid off")
to their campaigns.
I am totally disgusted in our legislature. Time for some revolution by the people to take back their government.
Gutless spineless wonders. Vote 'em out.
You mean with votes, right?
Easy to clear hurtles when facts don't matter, there are no hearings, and no one in the republican leadership seems to care. corker was supposed to be a deficit hawk, but he helped make 99% of American prey.
I am a retired, middle class, self-directed investor and I'm going to be unfairly hurt by the Senate Tax Bill. I urge you to please reject mandating a FIFO cost basis methodology on sales of securities which unfairly discriminates against the typical Main Street investor using a buy and hold strategy.
My understanding is that the Senate Tax Bill would impose a “first in-first out” (“FIFO”) cost basis methodology on all sales of securities (excluding only mutual fund companies from its reach). This means, while big fund companies are given an exemption, average investors like me could be forced to pay the highest capital gains taxes where a stock has appreciated over time. It’s a requirement that, to me, makes no sense.
Investing is difficult enough for the average person. Why add more obstacles and restrictions that make investing more challenging and expensive for retail investors?
1
What a shocker. Holdouts get their greedy gets. How predictable. I can't believe this tax scam is actually happening.
1
In redistributing wealth to the top, the GOP tax bill forces $25 billion in immediate cuts to Medicare, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Recall Donald Trump promised to never cut Medicare.
Senator Corker seems to be introducing a gimmick that will likely not work, perhaps to save face. Ron Johnson capitulated, and did after speaking with the president, who chastised him at the meeting.
Every single picture shown of Republicans have them rushing down halls away from cameras. These senators can't defend this bill with a straight face.
They're so pathetically compromised.
The full damning CBO report: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53319
1
The indisputable fact on the on the ground today is...the ENTIRE Republican Party have ZERO CORE VALUES, are NOT FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, full of DECEIT and will ALWAYS throw their weight behind the top 1%, the already dreadfully WEALTHY.
Con Artist Donald J. Trump promised to "DRAIN THE SWAMP". Mr. Fraud DJT is draining the Swamp alright by giving his Children $1 Billion huge Tax Cut hookup. Where are the die hard Trump supporters when you need them who will be adversely impact with this deficit bursting Tax Cut for the Rich?????
Check out statements from the so-called"reasonable, spineless, Senators Corker, Collins, etc that will ensure this Tax Cut does NOT pass.
“I think we’ve come to a pretty acceptable place, from my standpoint,” said Mr. Corker, who has stated that he would be unable to vote for the bill if it added to the federal deficit."
"Mr. Johnson objected to the bill on the grounds that it did not do enough to help so-called pass-through businesses, which pass their income on to their owners."
“I believe that a lot of my concerns, it appears, are going to be addressed and that I’m going to be getting the opportunity to offer amendments on the Senate floor,” she said." (Susan Collins)
"Senator Lamar Alexander, Republican of Tennessee, said that Senate Republicans were increasingly united about repealing the requirement that most people have health insurance or pay a penalty."
Vote these clueless, mean spirited fools out of office!
1
These Republican Senators fought their conscience, their principles - and beat them back after a few bribes and threats.
They're just so disgusting, I don't get how they look in the mirror. All those claims to care about our financial integrity - and they just hop on to add billions to our debt and make our country less and less fiscally responsible.
If Democrats are tax and spend - Republicans are BORROW and spend politicians. We get more and more in debt to China and other not entirely friendly nations with their actions.
2
Congress and the greedy rich making war on the public. Wake up, America!
2
Say goodbye to so-called representative democracy. A majority of middle class and other Americans see this bill as a travesty and a sham, and a giveaway to the 1%. And guess what? The GOP donor class don't care...it's their billionaire benefactors they're serving. And they sure aren't listening to the people. Get ready, America's middle class, here it comes again...we're about to get hosed. I've watched all kinds of scoundrels in Washington, but this crew of pirates and pretenders takes the cake.
1
Boycott cheese and dairy and have your bachelorette party in another city than Nashville!
1
Of course this is how Obamacare finally gets repealed: as a tax-cutting favor to the rich. This "tax reform" bill IS Trumpcare. Not a lick of care in it.
2
Thank you corporations, who will do exactly what they did last time they received a tax cut: they will give some money back to shareholders with stock buybacks and invest the rest overseas. Like other rich people, I intend to invest my tax cut and the shareholder windfall in diversifying overseas in case we bleed dry too many of the white working class turkeys here. Thank God we did not give a big permanent tax cut to the middle class. They would only have spent it in America, the fools. Thank you patriotic Republicans for making being rich great again.
1
Say it ain't so, Joe! (OK, Susan)
Abysmal! These Senators cannot even stand on their 'own' principles that got them elected in the first place.
But they sure are good at getting bribes from McConnell and Trump to overlook their principles and constituents.
2
Collins, Corker and Johnson. Three more "statesmen" have been paid off just so Trump can strut around the White House and brag about another win.
God help the United States.
3
Lawmakers know that they are being told lies about who would be helped and how much it would cost, yet they turn a blind eye. I feel deeply saddened and dismayed by such cowardice.
2
C'mon, America! Did you REALLY think for even one minute that the Republicans would NOT support a tax cut for the already rich? That is what they do! Always! Now, just imagine the long-term benefits to the members of Congress when they leave office..........the simple answer, the simple evaluation you have heard hundreds of times before: FOLLOW THE MONEY!
Well you can put to bed any further expansion of healthcare for struggling Americans. Who needs the NOAA or NASA or NIH or NSF or the FAA. After all the GOP could care less about your health, your safety or science. I hope the Dems go on record so that the next time we have a Democratic president who wants to rebuild our infrastructure, raise taxes on the wealthy, and try to reign in the deficit, they can point to days like these when 'facts don't matter'. Shameful yes and another nail in the coffin of the United States of America.
3
Don’t the rich realize what happens when they destroy the middle class?
Revolution. They are sentencing their own descendants.
2
People love to strut but when push comes to shove they cave. We need to stop believing the hype.
2
I doubt that Dippy Don has any more understanding of this tax bill than he had of the various Republican health care bills. All he wants is some kind of a win.
How shocking that Susan Collins would do what she has done throughout her entire career: Take a principled stance on something when it doesn't matter, and then roll over and vote the party line.
2
I never want to hear another Republican complain about the deficit again. Ever.
28
Really, have you looked at the doubling of the Deficit under Obama? More than all the presidents combined before him...
This is coming down to one thing, party over nation, and the GOP are turning out to be the biggest traitors the American people have ever seen. I can only pray that these votes are held against these members of Congress when they seek reelection. The sad part is all the damage it is going to cause to our economy and working people in the meantime.
1
With any luck this should put to rest Susan Collins’ carefully cultivated image as a “moderate.” Among thinking voters, Collins is the most reviled politician in Maine, after Paul LePage. We greatly look forward to her defeat next time around.
2
What a significant mistake for America brought on by a bunch of greedy republicans who have no one's interest at heart but there own. However, they will never be shamed into doing what is right and just. Therefore America you deserve what you elect and the cycle of corruption remains.
The only Republican code of ethics: party donors over God and country.
1
It seems that not one Republican has backbone all the way through. Shame is hardly enough of an epitaph for the members of this thoroughly immoral, materialistic party. This is a party deep, deep in the pockets of greed, power and weasels living in fear of offending the most offensive president America has ever had. A pox on that house and that senate.
1
What - are we finally talking seriously about the execrable tax bill (not tax "reform", an important distinction), a disastrous generational (likely more) ripoff, which will be passed by the Senate this week? I thought lurid tale after lurid tale of sexual harassment and Roy Moore, which was stuffing the airwaves and joyously reported by most of the mainstream media, was more important than this brutal tax bill which was sneaking its way through the Senate and making good, steady progress.
Way to go Repubs - you understood that the ultimate distraction in this country, even better than the usual tired Trump tweet barrage, was sex and you took full advantage it.
1
Dear Senators Corker, Johnson, Collins, Flake, Lankford, Moran, Daines, Brady, and Kennedy ~ I was once impressed that all of you seemed to speak with a voice of reason and doubt regarding the upcoming Draconian tax cut plan, now laden with the chaos of non-healthcare. This morning I read that the doubts in some of you have been softened by belief in and assurances from the “promising” President. How has that been working for you and the rest of us throughout this past year of anxiety? I respect the tough position you are in, but please – don’t trade off our futures just for the win. I ask that your vote not be based on beliefs or assurances, but on hard fact, knowledge and reason. And the numbers do not fit the promise!
1
See this is the time where the second amendment is welcomed the founding fathers put that in there so when your govt got out of control. That was one way to get it back under control.
What will these nabobs do once they have destroyed the middle class? Once they have ALL the wealth, there will be nothing left to "trickle down", and the country will have been destroyed. They will then board their sumptuous yachts to sail away to .... where?
These politicians are so far out of the realm of reality that it's scary. They have become too insulated and haven't a clue what it means to be among the working poor or for that matter the Middle Class. They don't live by our laws they seem to play by their own rules always at our expense and yet we put up with them. Both parties are not blameless and al should be put out to pasture. They are a despicable lot and should be done away with.
We have a completely immoral government now.
2
Susan Collins who loves her role as one of the "good republicans" has to go. There are NO good republicans, only liars and panderers to the rich, lobbyists, and hypocritical religion. What a surprise it will be when Trump supporters realize they cannot deduct local property taxes from their federal returns. And that trickster, Rob Portman of Ohio, has the gall to paint this situation as "leveling the playing field" – he says residents of NY, NJ, and CA get an"unfair" larger deduction. DUH! – that's because we pay more in local taxes, twit.
2
At the very least, this certainly gives everyone a better understanding of the French Revolution.
2
Awwright, then. Is the universal fawning over McCain and Flake and Corker and Collins still justified?
When it comes right down to it, posturing is far, far less important than how one actually votes.
I'm considering just not paying my taxes... what would happen if a lot of us just protested by resisting.
2
Wouldn't it be great if millions of citizens stormed Washington to protest what Congress is doing? It is so very irksome to see the photos of these smug, smirking Republican Senators, surrounded by aides and reporters, as they are about to help widen the income inequality in this country.
I would love to see these folks legally taken into custody, en masse, and held accountable for their crimes against their fellow citizens. I am absolutely disgusted by their contempt for those of us who do the day to day work of keeping this country running.
3
It's incongruous that Senator Collins and Senator Johnson, along with the Republican senators who added the repeal of the individual mandate to the Senate's tax overhaul bill and many of the senators who will likely vote for the bill with the repeal, were among the 36 Republican senators who, in 2012, submitted a brief to the Supreme Court arguing that the Court should not do the very thing that the senators are now trying to do. Their brief makes strong arguments against eliminating the mandate and leaving the rest of the law in place. For example, it argues that “without the mandate, the statute’s reforms cannot work as intended,” and “Congress’ attempted solution to the twin problems of health care coverage and costs disappears.” It also notes that the experience of the states “showed that similar reform without the mandate actually raised the cost of insurance, increased the number of uninsured, and in at least one case, destabilized the insurance market.” http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/supreme_court_pr...
These people are all bluster and no courage. They have sold their souls to the donor base. This is not tax reform, but a tax cut for the wealthy, borne by the middle and lower class. We are rapidly coming upon a new gilded age.
My taxes will go up, and I have no idea how to care for my mother who has Alzheimer's, as we sell the assets she has accumulated, but will no longer have the health deduction offset. Daily I worry about money as I never had before( along with nuclear war.) This is not how I thought I would go into my golden years. Apparently my golden years will consist of providing more gold to those who already have it.
So much for the notion that there are a few "reasonable" Republicans who will check Trump.
1
Just wait until rents go up as landlords try to recuperate some of their revenue lost to double taxation!
1
Ms. Collins should strive to remember that Trump's word can't be trusted. Don't harm your constitutes simply because Trump promised you something.
In other words, a vote for this tax bill will equal a vote for your opponent in the next election.
Sincerely,
A Mainer
17
Shame on them. This will harm vulnerable people. It cuts billions out of Medicare, which older folks have been paying for all our working lives, which we continue to pay for.
This will harm children. It will harm the environment, women, working people, the middle class and probably, the economy.
Mostly though it's pure immorality to give the richest of the rich MORE money!
This is a superficial part of me commenting, but it's inconceivable knowing that if this bill passes, it will not only apparently harm many but also it will give this insatiably hungry for attention and validation and need to win at any cost White House occupant something concrete about which to strut and boast and preen and pat himself on the back about. A win he will use to prove to his base and maybe to non critical thinking others that he deserves a second term. Intolerable.
1
Wow. If this bill passes, it will be clear that the oligarchs have won. Freedom, as we have known it, is over in the United States. Laws and "justice" can now be bought.
You can blame John Roberts and his ruling on Citizen's United. Net Neutrality will soon be gone. The Consumer Financial Protection Agency will soon be gone. Social Security and Medicare will soon be gone. Fairness in broadcasting will soon be gone -- the Koch's will own all media.
Be complacent and don't exercise your right to vote. This is how it ends, people. The Republicans are deplorable, but the Democrats are impotent.
It's a wonderful time to be ultra-rich.
2
Nothing matters any more. Not public support. Not impact to our country. Just getting something done and appeasing the mega-rich donors. Sad.
2
Here we go again. And why does this keep happening? The Republicans have given the Democrats all the ammunition they could possibly need, but Democrats are not willing to roll up their sleeves and get in the fight. Most people I talk with think the Democrats are actually in step with the Republicans. Why else would they sit back and allow such corruption? And, yes, they are allowing it by not speaking out on talk shows, not getting their constituents riled up at Town Halls and not having a unified message that they drive home. People need to turn their wrath on their own politicians and the DNC for being so feckless.
Here's hoping all you Keyboard Warriors get on the phone, call your Reps and Senators, and then take to the streets to vote. Or run for office!
Words without action mean nothing - NOTHING - to the folks in DC. Only when they're looking at the loss of their jobs do they even begin to pay attention.
And, while you're at it, might as well hit their high dollar donors in the pocketbook, right?
What is truly sad is that your elected representatives are being beaten into submission by promises of adjustments yet to come which, I have no doubt, will never materialize.
2
This is the same as utilities charging us their customers to pay for them to clean up the toxic mess they have made in our state plus for the water bought for contaminated waters in our neighborhoods. The republicans are going to send us ,the hard workers, the middle class, the poor, a great big bill to pay for the generosity they are giving to their donors. Well,isn't that special. How brave and generous of them. What is another word for GOP congress currently? Why it's "Corporate Charitable Organization, it's "The Grand Old Takers, it's the "1 percenters Get It All." Congratulate yourselves, pats on the back to all , digging your hands into our pockets to give to your buddies.
Sad state of affairs, democrocy is no longer, the 3 republicans that gave us a glimmer of hop, have lost their will and succumbed to bullying, and we cannot depend on them to do the right thing either.
2
The fiscal-trigger promise buys some key votes, just as the termination of nom-corporate tax cuts after a few years gets the bill under the $1.5trillion debt increase ceiling. Promise what you have to promise; lie if you have to lie.
What is the lie? Neither the fiscal trigger nor the terminating tax cuts are real. Ryan himself is saying the obvious—that no Congress is actually going to terminate those cuts. Similarly, it’ll be easy for a future Congress to rationalize abandoning the fiscal trigger—they’ll quibble with the numbers or willl point to a falling stock market and say now’s not the time to raise taxes. It’s a no-brainer for the current Republican Congress to promise anything now, and push the tough fiscal decisions into the future. We’ll be braver tomorrow. But they won’t be—just mortgaging the future of the Nation to be passed on to our children and grandchildren.
So, the Republicans will betray their constituents. Best hope now is that all those voters (and there are many) who thought they would get a tax cut on this year's income will realize that isn't happening. Next year, they'll hear their Congressmen begin to push for cutting medicare and Social Security. Many will suffer, but at least it will include the voters who thought putting these guys in office was a good idea.And that is the only way to stop this nonsense.
1
This is the formula that sustains Donald Trump's presidency, perhaps into a second term. GOP mainstream and corporate interests gets their big tax cuts and deregulation. Christian fundamentalists get anti-abortion laws and conservative Supreme Court justices. White supremacist types get flattery, mainstream recognition, and The Wall. The Trump coalition shambles on.
1
The republicans and especially Trump love to point to the danger of Mexican or Muslims or transgender folks, but these republicans are they are the real enemy of the American people willing to snatch needed money away from the poor and middle class, take food out of poor children’s mouths and healthcare away from people that need it all to give the wealthy more. By the next election they will find a new enemy to distract you with while they plot to take your Social Security and Medicare, and the poorly educated voters among us will root them on.
1
So, GOP, up until now I've been hearing and reading that you will not take any action on Trump until after your precious billionaire tax relief bill is passed. So I ask you, once this thing is passed, which it looks like will happen, will you move forward to investigate Trump's numerous disturbing sexual harassment claims? Will you move forward with impeachment if recommended by Mueller? Or will you continue to brazenly ignore voters and your constituents, pretending that we the people do not even exist? I know what I'm putting my money on. Just curious to know YOUR answer.
2
Collins, Corker, and Johnson should know better. Either that or they really don't care after all. Who can be gullible enough to believe Trump's promises?
1
No matter how much revenue they give up, they will always find money for war.
Sad, very sad. DJM
The corporate-style takeover of America by the rich is done.
1
I can only hope that the millions terribly harmed by this theft from the poor to give to the rich use a portion of the money remaining to them to exercise their Second Amendment Rights. They may be left with few options but to exercise them down the road, which their political opponents would support, of course, given their love of that amendment as they interpret it. I only hope they get what they wish for in a big way. Our country is broken and ruined, and our apathy and disunity on the left has hastened that. Perhaps when our pain is great enough, we will finally take action. If not, the Trump Reich will triumph. And I will be glad that I am old and nearing death, sad to be dying in a country that has become loathsome to me.
1
These GOP senators are letting themselves be duped by Trump's promises and admonishments. How they can possibly believe anything Trump promises is beyond me and most of the American people!
I am so saddened.
6
But, sadly, not surprised.
1
Don't forget the market crashes of 2008 and 1988, brought about by the unthinking tax cuts and casino behavior on Wall Street (and unfunded military adventures) of Bush and Reagan.
Republicans forget that over and over Democrats have repaired the damaged economies they ruin in their greed and desire to reward the superrich (who don't, mind you, create jobs, but hoard and offshore their ill-gotten gains).
The current tax-free inheritance is $5.45 million. That's tax free $5,450,000. Death tax, forsooth! Trump is laughing all the way to the bank already, and now he gets to keep his dishonest earnings built on the backs of his victims.
17
And based on Trump's previous answers to everythng, when the next financial crash comes, he will say "I had nothing to do with it ...not my fault."
1
You forget how Reagan repaired the failed Carter years......or are you too young to remember 2+ hour gas lines?
Those lines? Blame OPEC (best buddies with Trump and Bush and Reagan)
1
As 70 year old retirees, this tax scam is making my wife and I sick to our stomachs, literally. There seems to be something in this bill to offend and harm almost everybody, except the super-rich and corporate CEOs.
I can only hope the angry white people who bought Drumph's bogus populist baloney will be very happy.
38
You might be interested in the following:
"Donald Trump: 'We will stop racing to topple foreign regimes"
The Guardian, December 7, 2016.
And why does that matter?
The cost of our Mideast adventures, begin by Bush and CONTINUED by Obama was at least 1.6 trillion in DIRECT costs from 2001 to 2014, and much more in indirect costs.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/27/donald-tr...
The NYT has never emphasized anything positive about Trump and so we, with our small voices, have to offer SOME balance.
Dear Mr. Falusco, I do hope you will join me in doing some thinking and in eschewing partisanship.
1
How many more millions do the Millionaires need? Trump can't wait for the Inheritance Tax ceiling to double. My level of disgust has no ceiling any longer.
25
Personal enrichment Trumps solidarity, honesty and fiarness in the GOP.
9
I wonder what’s in it for them that they changed their minds.
8
David...MONEY.
1
Even Collins, Murkowski, Johnson, and Corker have their price. Will McCain remain true even if the others bail?
What I don't understand is why the average Republican Congressman/Senator would jeopardize their own futures once their constituents feel the pain. Granted, they are unburdened by principles, but a tax increase for their base seems so self-destructive.
A delusional idiot in the White House, as a foil, and the Republicans unleash one punishing blow after another on the vast majority of people in this country.
There is little further to fall as a nation.
17
Don't kid yourself. We have a LOT further to fall. Just wait.
Because feeling the pain is years away, and our memories are short. And in the current disinformation climate, someone else will be blamed and those pointing the fingers will be believed.
The average Republican Representative/Senator does not see hollowing out the middle class as a threat to their future. The threat to their future comes from being primaried from the right by Bannon et al., and losing campaign donations from the ultra-wealthy and corporations, if they fail to get this done. As always, worried about their own butts and the money rather than the people the "represent".
Pure corruption. They were paid off in some fashion. America is going down with the destruction of the middle class and potential attacks on seniors
17
It was the adamant opposition of the Democrats which caused the Republicans to reach out to those who want to favor the rich.
If Democrats had agreed to go along with tax reform, to SOME extent, they would have had an influence and those Republicans who want to fatten the rich would have been sidelined.
Instead of 52 or so Republicans, and zero Democrats, we could have had a more moderate bill with 40 Republicans and 12 Democrats.
1
I would like to see the Democratic leadership - in Congress, in the states and even including presidential hopefuls - out in force this week, explaining this giant con to the American people before it gets railroaded through and all we can do is listen to the chuckling from inside Mar-a-Lago. TV appearances, news conferences, speeches, the works. Lead!!
16
Among 50 Republican Senators, so many religions people, but not 3 wise men (or women)
16
Andrew...they are obviously the wrong religion. Jesus would not accept these godless miscreants into his fold. As far as wisdom...don't even go there! There isn't one GOOD brain amongst them; they are just con artists. There is no intellectualism, common sense, or rightness in what they think or do. It is all just ONE BIG CON JOB. I cannot believe that I have to write things like this. I cannot believe that we are all living something like this.
1
So now it’s perfectly fine to take away healthcare from millions of Americans so that the uber rich donors have more “pocket change”?! Disgusting.
9
TR, I believe your country Switzerland has provided lots of assistance to the uber rich by allowing them to keep secret accounts in Swtizerland.
"Those who live in glass houses..."
We now officially live in an oligarchy folks. I'm waiting for the fools with low paying jobs who voted for Trump to get their tax bill for 2018--SURPRISE.
14
Everyone I know with a low paying job voted for Obama followed by Clinton. Democrats love their freebees.
1
Republicans have metamorphosed into Deficit Doves.
3
Senators who vote yes to this ‘tax the middle, give more to the wealthy’, are traitors to the country and the American people. Even those who voted for all these repubicans and don’t know what they are in for
8
Where is the coverage of the Dems who need to rally the people? Are they not saying anything?
7
JDH: I am getting pretty angry at the Democrats, who ALSO have corporate "donors" they are beholden to. All I get from them are e-mails asking for money. Well, no more money until I see them do something for us. The only ones who seem to give a damn are Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Maybe the "mainstream" Dems don't want to protest to loudly lest THEY anger THEIR billionaire buddies. All I can say is that they better get with the program. Yes, they would ABSOLUTELY be better for the people than the GOP. These two parties are two different genres of "crooks." The Dems are infinitely better, have more sense, and more compassion...but they also have issues that we need to deal with. Elected politicians MUST LEARN that they MUST WORK FOR THEIR CONSTITUENTS...not for their onw interests, and not for big money. And until they do, we are in a hell of a mess. We need politicians who work FOR US. The only ones I see doing that are Sanders and Warren. If these politicians are NOT working for us, then they are not doing their jobs, and they need to go. These are fabulous jobs they have, with incredible compensation, benefits, and pensions, and a lot of prestige and power. No one should be allowed to abuse such a position, or abuse the trust or the well-being of the people who put them into such a position.
1
Ron Johnson is the only person talking sense right now. Taking assurances from Trump is about as smart as accepting checks printed on toilet paper in invisible ink. Corker and Collins come across as foolish and naive. I'm looking to Arizona for a way out. Help us Obi-McCain-Kenobi. You're our only hope.
7
Andy, Corker is in it for what he can get, and so is Susan Collins, however Collins does strike me as naïve. No one in their right mind would believe anything that trump says...especially his promises.
2
So here is the DEAL...what if this all falls apart, and they get it passed..oh it passes...big deal for RePUBES..but who is held accountable when the 20 Trillion is all of a sudden 22 Trillion?? Problem is no one...they get the big break, and the little guy like me has to pay for it...I have not seen in my industry a decent raise in 20 years...electrical designer $18 bucks in 1998...they make $24 to maybe $30 in 2017....really?? There isn't going to be anyone getting raises except the big leaders of industry period...oh and as a side note...Alaksa's pristine land is raped in the North due to oil...great...good for that salmon run that is the biggest in the world...nothing like pre-oiled salmon fillets.
7
So Corker got suckered by the con man. A "mechanism to avoid ballooning debt". A parade of fools that are bankrupting our country in every way.
19
GOP is anti-American in my book...shameful day in and day out.
13
Public opinion on this tax plan is in the toilet. Are they so desperate to say they have done something (anything!) and to pay back donors that quality doesn't matter at all? I would think a change of this magnitude would take years of bipartisan negotiation.
10
Without their donors' great piles of cash, they'd be down in the single digits for public support. That group of Koch-like deplorables is the extent of their real constituency.
"I met with the President and now I feel very optimistic that he understands me and will address my concerns." Just wow. Really? Is he giving the widdle Senators rides on his knee too? And a sucker before they leave?
16
For some, that's all they would have to take home to be slightly eligible for re-election.
John McCain - please vote NO!
13
Ugh, I think I'm going to be sick.
8
Justice, you mean that you avoided ALREADY being sick???? I am so sick, and I've been so sick since this moron was elected. I just sicker every single day because it gets WORSE every single day!
1
Irredeemable...the political equivalent of a botched colonoscopy. We requested something wholesome, healthy and good for the country and you served us up some half-baked concoction that only benefits rich jerks.
What will become of us? Will disdain of the yokel cause our society to further fissure and bring another Civil War? Will China or robots take all of our jobs? Will pimple-faced Russian hackers double-down in their successes of turning us against each other and our allies? Will Miami become the next Atlantis? Only a total fool would think that Donald Trump could begin to address any of the challenges facing our nation. It’s akin to expecting Pauly Shore to somehow solve P versus NP. Not gonna happen. What can happen is we can deliver a withering rebuke in 2018. Let’s remind Trump and his gang of venal GOP liars who they are accountable to and let’s try to turn this careening bus of awfulness around.
9
Spineless. Unprincipled. Hypocritical. Money Grubbing. Despicable. Deceitful. Dishonest. Revolting.
20
Southern Boy,
Your state is bottom 15 in public education. Top 10 in obesity. Top 5 in violent crime...but 1st in evangelicals!!!! Who overwhelmingly voted for Trump.
Keep on rockin' those Southern values. They sure add up to good things!
17
Thanks, History Guy! I am so sick of listening to those "southern values." He might as well just say: "I only care what is good for me", and stop beating around the bush. If no one cares about the sick, the elderly, and the poor, what kind of a civilization do we have? If no one cares that every bit of help and care is taken from us by the likes of the ryans, the trumps, and the mcconnells and their ilk, where we will be? And you know the answer to that, and so do most of us who comment here.
1
Cowards to the last.
6
Why does the news media repeatedly fall for these fake games by the republicans? Every single time either Con Don or a Republican Congressman has a decision to make that will harm Americans or cause harm to anyone actually, the media prints daily stories of “will he, or won’t he”, when we all know the answer before the announcement or vote is called. I never bother reading or following these stories because that is exactly what Con Don and his his henchmen in Congress want you to do. They want to create a distraction of appearing to be empathetic and compassionate about the issue at hand. That way when they announce the end of DACA, illegitimate Supreme Court pick, women’s rights, repealing the ACA, Paris Climate Accord, tax breaks for the wealthy donors at the majority of Americans expense, and so on, they have a captive, confused and fearful audience.
It would be better for the NYT to be bold and write what Con Don and the criminals in Congress and the DOJ will do beforehand and evidence to support this pronouncement. Rather then pretending, in this case, Senator Johnson, won’t vote along party lines. He does this every time and that should be the story. Once you have insight into the psychology and motivation of the players there is no more room for these treasonous, greedy liars to hide.
7
These senator's behavior is not at all unlike the world's oldest profession, but with a bit of a twist. And all it cost trump was the price of buying them a lunch - cheap dates these senators. The twist though, instead of trump, we're the ones getting you know whatted.
4
Right. We already knew what thes GOP Congressman and SEnators are; now they're just haggling over the price.
1
Oh, Deb, you sure said it so right...
1
Doesn't Collins realize the president is crazy and will tell her anything to get her vote but the words are meaningless.
Looks like the people will get screwed again.
12
I am thinking that maybe Collins, Flake, and Corker are looking like they will vote for the bill...but maybe, if we all pray REALLY HARD, they won't. Maybe they will surprise us and do the right thing. Maybe they are trying to fake trump out. And there really is a Santa Claus and unicorns, too! Unfortunately, I think that they are going to do what the rest of their GOP partners in crime do...
What awful, awful people these Republicans are. Stealing from the poor and lying about it, and taking our democracy down at the same time. Just so the Kochs can fulfill their dreams before they drop dead.
10
Good to see they're all in agreement with the promises of "Beloved Leader".
Can't wait to see how shocked they will be when he screws them again.
Priceless!
3
This bill is a betrayal of their voters and constituents. It is designed for one purpose to shift money from working families to the rich.
I am concerned that media, even the New York Times has not done a good enough job of identifying the negative effects of this bill on the average American family. When Nancy Pelosi tried to discuss it on Meet the Press, Chuck Todd shut her down.
Among the problems with the Republicans' proposals is the negative impact on middle class upward mobility as graduate tuition waivers become taxed and deductions for student loans are removed. The dream of owning a home comes under assault with their treatment of interest and state and local taxes. Perhaps the worst impact will be felt by people who will now be taxed on income they actually never receive because it is automatically deducted for state taxes. This will hurt the income earners in the states that actually generate the most income for the country. The donor states that pay more into taxes than they get back. Congressmen who support this should not be allowed back after the next election.
68
I agree completely. The media coverage is akin to the coverage of Trump prior to the 2016 election - he was all over most media sources spewing his rhetoric. Also one thing never mentioned is that, although supposedly a tax bill, this bill re-defines a human being as a fetus, thereby setting the stage for anti-abortion laws. Why is this in a tax law? Another ploy by the Republicans to limit our freedoms and to impose religion into our government.
Chuck Todd is not a nice man...
1
If I wanted the tax reform bill to pass here is what I would do.
1) Raise more funds to lower the deficit by decreasing the
corporate tax rate to 25% not 20%. This gives corporations some goodies but doesn't increase the deficit so much.
2) Keep the individual mandate for health insurance so health insurance markets remain stable and premiums are less likely to increase. This also eliminates a major criticism of the bill.
3) Keep mortgage interest and SALT deductions but put a cap on how much can be claimed. This keeps high tax States happy. It also means middle class taxpayers $75,000---$150,000 G.I. who have high mortgage interest and SALT can still get take advantage of deducting those expenses rather than using the increased standard deduction if it is to their benefit.
4) Increase the child care tax credit particularly for those with incomes below
$50,000. This gives a definite benefit to the poor who have been largely forgotten in the ongoing discussions about the rich and middle class.
5) Make sure not to repeal the estate tax but increase the amount of value exempted. Make sure all estates pay a minimum required tax. This provides funds to finance the tax overhaul and keep the deficit in check. It also makes true Trump's claim that the tax plan is not a good deal for him.
Make these changes and bring tax reform closer to the middle class and not so drastic and I might even vote for it. And I definitely do not like Trump.
5
You need to run for office...
According to the last posting, "a majority of middle class Americans, like my husband and me, will be receiving cuts and not just in the short term". A careful reading of this statement will allow one to drive two large semis through it.
1) Possibly 49% of middle class Americans will be hurt by it and
2) We might all get "cuts" but they could be more than offset by other components of the bill.
This analysis is, at best, vague and incomplete. At worst, it is a willful distortion of the total reality of the bill.
7
Then what is the "total reality"?
What is the data that supports it, and where can it be verified?
?
1
Yes, I might get a cut. If so, I'm going to pack it into retirement savings to try to alleviate the inevitable slashes to Medicare and Social Security. We're screwed...
1
If you think this bill is bad now, wait for the $1.5 trillion in spending cuts that Republicans will now argue is necessary to pay for it. This other shoe will drop hard on the 70 million Medicaid and CHIP recipients. Think tanks have not factored this into their analysis of the real impact of the bill.
11
From Vol 2 Memoirs of Harry Truman Page 172, discussing the Republican dominated Congress of 1946-1948
"During their control of the 80th Congress, the Republicans had shown that they did not want – indeed, did not understand – an enlightened program. They did not understand the worker, the farmer, the everyday person. Theirs was an unreasoning, emotional resistance to progress. Any legislative proposal to improve the lot of the general public, in working conditions, health risks, or long range social security aroused their opposition. Most of them honestly believed that prosperity actually began at the top and would trickle down in due time to benefit all of the people."
The Republicans are unchanged
12
I'd like to see some reporting on the simplification aspect of the proposed bills--not the reduction in the number of tax brackets or the elimination of the various credits that individuals can take, but the elimination of the credits that make business taxes so complicated. I'm assuming that in exchange for reducing the statutory tax rate for corporations, the bills do away with the many calculations that businesses have to do in order to get one or more of thousands of special-interest credits and exemptions. That kind of simplification was one of the benefits of the GOP plans as they were outlined weeks or months ago; is it still a feature of the bills?
If it is, of course, it would simply bring the effective and statutory rates more in line with each other, but lowering accounting costs would presumably make a little more money available for the investment and raises we have been promised.
If you believe those promises of raises (for anyone not already making out like a bandit) I have a swamp in Florida to sell you (soon to be on the sea floor).
6
Do you mean the promised raises are not mandated in the bill? My, my.
Seriously, my basic question still stands: what are the details on reduced complexity?
Nothing like powdering over the huge consequences and issues by a "flurry of last-minute deals" to buy a few votes, eh?
And all for a 60% slash in the tax rate for businesses (from 35% to 20%) and huge tax windfalls for rich types like the Trumps themselves, who will now pay ZERO estate tax...
10
This tax plan is designed, intentionally or not, to leave poor in the same condition, the middle class to tilt toward the lower socio-economic hierarchy and the rich to be even more privileged and wealthy. The tale that the super wealthy and the corporations are going to create more jobs is just a lie. Their goal is the profit not the job creation; in fact if a robot is more profitable than ten workers then the choice is inevitable. Eventually they don't care if a product is made in the US or in China or Pakistan; their goal is the highest profit possible, it's not the American worker. So if the middle-class is going to pay more in tax who is going to buy new shoes, a new car or airline tickets? The stagnation would be a catastrophic consequence...
8
While engaged in physical therapy the other day, my therapist said that he wants this tax bill to pass. He said that the estate tax needed to be eliminated because "It forces people to sell off their property in order to pay the estate tax." I asked him if he was aware that the first several million dollars of everybody's estate was already tax exempt. He did not know that.
While I enjoy making money, and have no problem with millionaires making money, I do have a problem with this tax plan. The infrastructure in this country is what enabled these very wealthy people to become so rich. The rules were in place as they built their wealth. But now, now that the wealth has been transferred and consolidated in the hands of very few (relatively speaking), they want to change the rules, including the Estate Tax and much of the income tax. And they may get away with it because we have truly become a country largely populated by ignoramuses, folks who have no clue about what is going on.
George Washington was called "His Excellency" by some. He abhorred that title. He knew the danger of monarchy and the passing, from generation to generation, of absolute power and/or wealth. We do not allow the passage of Royal titles in the U.S. Why on earth is Congress willing to destroy our way of life?
11
Your comment is so true, people do not even try to stay informed about issues or the tax code. Totally clueless except they think they may a few $ off their tax liability!!
I can't help but think this proposed tax bill is like the Affordable Care Act in so much as none of us voters really know what's completely in the bill, what's being snuck in to appease those wavering Republicans so they vote for it, or what is being cut so the bill passes. It is impossible for me to accurately determine how this tax bill will effect ME personally because all any of us know comes from the fragments of information reported on by the NYT or the other news publications. What I DO know is that any time sometime has to be "pushed through", arms have to be twisted, and people have to be convinced that something is really, really good only means that it's not good nor beneficial to the masses. If this tax bill can't stand on its own merits, then that's the answer and reason why it should not be passed. Why the rush and the hurray if this tax bill is so beneficial and wonderful?
3
It always concerned me that the reasons the Senators had opposed it didn't have to do with how horrible this plan was in terms of middle and lower income people, that meant that they could be bought off without actually making it any better. So it looks like the GOP's wealthy benefactors are going to see a return on their investment.
7
The Republicans have waited for decades and to no ones surprise, to implement their vile agenda towards their own country without the least bit of thought and caring as to its repercussions. Adding in the gilded ages, remember this is what happened in 1929 and leading up to 2008, so get ready, AGAIN and who, ultimately, paid the price for it all? The Republicans, along with their supporters, live in another world primarily consisting of privilege and wealth and regardless of their empty rhetoric about the middle-class, all others have no place in that world.
Trump was 35 years in the making primarily at the behest of the Republican Party and its non-policies and of, of course, now weak, centrist democrats. Regardless of what happened in the primaries, they ultimately could not have had a better President than Trump to advance that agenda, a dream come true. The sad fact is, when it comes to these insane tax policies and what will be the ultimate dismantling of NAFTA and further isolation of America in the world, those most negatively affected by all of this will be the blind supporters of Trump and the Republicans with their never-ending divide and conquer agenda.
There were certainly crisis and deep divisions in the past, however, because, at present there are really no strong political/ideological alternatives to turn to immediately, this time America, it will be a pretty insurmountable job trying to pull yourself out of this one.
3
Democrats need to campaign on, amidst some other things, "Repeal and Replace" of this giveaway to the wealthy and cash-bloated corporations at the expense of the Middle Class. The Democrats should promote repealing the bill and replacing it with a very straight-forward tax cut for the Middle Class. Something which the GOP could have done if they were honestly interested in tax cuts for the Middle Class rather than campaign donor kick-backs.
4
why aren't the folks for Kansas lobbying their GOP Senators ferociously? Do they want to play this out on a national scale after having just survived it on the state level?
6
Not buying it... Corporations already pay little in taxes after they use all the existing loop holes and deductions. Unemployment is low and in some areas it approaches full employment. Despite what Congressional leaders and the President claim, this is nothing more than a huge gift to their corporate overlords and their billionaire pals.
4
I think the one possible silver lining for Democrats with Trump ushering in this tax cut for the rich is that Republicans won't really need him anymore. Their corporate and 1% donors' coffers more full than ever and their campaign war chests refilling for 2018 mid-terms, they can start to clean house and isolate Trump, leading the way for Pence to take control when they can allow the impeachment tide to finally come in.
Pence is in many ways worse. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/23/the-danger-of-president-pence
"The Danger of President Pence: Trump’s critics yearn for his exit. But Mike Pence, the corporate right’s inside man, poses his own risks."
3
Don't forget that this tax bill also has several unrelated riders. Repeal of ACA mandate is one, and there is also the repeal of the Johnson Amendment. This bill already favors the rich, so now it's looking likely that churches are going to become political machines for conservative candidates. And still, some 35-40% of Americans continue to approve of Trump. Our democracy is quickly becoming a plutocracy/theocracy/ideocracy. Sad!
4
Keep in mind that 35-40% are all for no-tax-paying (Christian) churches being able to become political machines.
2
During the 2016 presidential campaign, we heard a lot about prioritizing the improvement of the country's infrastructure, which would create jobs and facilitate the expansion of a 21st century economy. How would the country afford a massive infrastructure program, given that the proposed tax legislation would significantly increase the federal deficit and put pressure on future spending priorities? I'm waiting for your answer, Senators!
3
Wake up people! The answer to your complaints begins with you, not someone else. I read daily about Citizens United and that the oligarchs are taking control, however we seem to have forgotten that it is us consumers who really hold the cards.
When will we learn to use the power of social media to enact purchasing boycotts that will quickly bring this company or that billionaire to its/their knees?
4
What amazes me is that we have tasted the effects of this "tax reform", when Bush passed his version of tax reform. We saw what happened, and yet, we have different expectations for what will happen this time. The excuse that they didn't work then because they were temporary is ridiculous. All legislation can be considered temporary - just look at Republican efforts to eviscerate the ACA. Not only that, but we've seen the effects of bank deregulation in two financial crises - the Savings and Loan, and the recent financial meltdown.
Democrats have had well over a decade to denounce efforts to repeal the estate tax. Obama, seeking to avoid confrontation decided to let the Bush tax cuts phase out, and instead of acting on the conviction that they weren't effective in stimulating the economy, and calling on Congress to repeal them and use the money for a real economic stimulus. A lost opportunity to make the case for the Democratic vision.
Obama was content to enact the Democratic agenda seemingly on the sly. He went out of his way to pass a less progressive version of healthcare reform, in the hopes of appeasing Republicans, when in fact he merely infuriated them because their real objection was to the objective of such reform - having the healthy and wealthy subsidize sick people. He merely delayed the date of confrontation.
I hope Democrats can effectively move out of the shadow cast by his Presidency.
5
Yes. You nailed it, as my biggest frustration and disappointment about Obama. I join with Cornell West and others in agreement with you. Obama will turn out to be what Michael Moore said about his legacy -- the first black president...period. It was about time, but someone like Obama? Dignified and brilliant, yes, as bringing a piece of paper to read a brilliant speech to a gun fight. With the ocean of Democratic candidate losses since 2008 and his almost singular win in 2012, it is essential not to mythologize him. Cornell West is interviewed in the current NYTimes, and the article should be read by many thinking people.
Let's call “Trump’s Tax Bill” what it is "War on the Middle Class and Poor" and "Merry Christmas to Republican Donors and the 1%".
Make no mistake about it, as soon as the tax bill becomes law (I fear it will), cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will soon follow.
4
I am horrified that Republicans are willing to sell their constituents for the equivalent of 30 pieces of silver for their rich backers and billionaire buddies.
This is not right. And if they call themselves Christians they should look in the mirror and read the gospels. Money for kleptocrats is not justifiable under any human creed that serves the community of humankind.
21
I'm afraid the Democratic leadership still does not understand that we no longer care what they say or do in response to this Bill or any other Republican initiative. I read with interest the entire article looking for any clues of a way this Bill can be defeated- I saw none. At the end of the article is a quote from Senator Schumer, with what can only be described as the same old thing stated by the same old Party Leader. Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Schumer must be immediately be removed from leadership roles and replaced by forward thinking, smart and combative Democrats. The sooner they leave, the sooner I will have some optimism that Democrats can regain control over one or both of the Legislative Branches.
47
Personally I think Nancy Pelosi is great and she deserves as much credit as Obama for getting the ACA passed. She is extremely effective, which is why Republicans hate her so much.
Chuck Schumer shamefully supported the carried interest tax loophole, and until he concedes that this was a mistake is a poor choice to lead the opposition. His objection to the bill on procedural grounds is an echo of Obama's ineffective arguments about bipartisanship and doing the right thing. Republicans don't agree about what the right thing is, and unless you attempt to explain why they are wrong, dare to call them out on their priorities and belief that corporate interests and the public's interests are one and the same, Democrats will get no where. Republicans took Obama's arguments about partisanship and used them against him and the Democrats. It's time to talk ideology and Republicans running a gov't for the benefit of corporations and their shareholders.
It would have been good for them to have gone and demanded that corporations pass on at least 1/3rd of their savings directly to wages, immediately. For the middle class, SSN, & medicare! Very sick that democrats aren't talking more about this connection and the need for the corp. commitment. I hope journalists are getting ready to really track this financial data - - where will the money go? Why aren't they in the room demanding that this is part of the legislation! Why aren't they able to get two Republican's to support what is total common sense! You are right!
I keep hoping that somehow somebody should look into what we as a country really need. I have a hard time with tax cuts and this deregulation as well as the slow destruction of the things our Government is supposed to help us with.
This stuff about "Fake News" is being applied to everything that business sees as cutting into it's profits.
It's easy to research just how much responsibility big business takes (to protect us from dangerous conditions and there are exceptions to this but the exceptions are not the rule) by looking into how many dangerous things business denied were happening and the ongoing protests over public and employee protections. It became a Government function because business would not comply any other way.
Still I keep hoping I am wrong but what I see doesn't bode well for most of us.
Be it healthcare environment public health and safety on and on.
1
Quote heard on the radio: the GOP is engaged in an age-old human endeavor, that is looking for philosophical justification for selfishness. I think that about sums up our current situation. I agree with the person that says democracy is dead, and we are now officially an oligarchy. Welcome to the new feudalistic Dark Ages.
27
The "business" President.
Getting the workers to finance reducing his own taxes by probably 100 Million a year. Without doing any more work himself.
Don't you wish we lived in a democracy where we could all be so "smart".
21
Do they even consider its the impact on the housing market ? If this bill passes as is, it will crash the real estate market, especially in the high tax states like my home state of NJ, which will reignite the whole chain of recessions into stack market crash. Remember 2008 ? Gentlemen, fasten your the seal belts.
9
I’m pretty sure it’s a punishment for east coast states, so this effect was the point. besides punishing the liberals who send more money to the fed than they get back, the you know whos can make a killing in the ensuing crash. Planned.
2
Remember trump bragging about how easy it was to make a killing back then? oh for the good old days.
Very true but but "tricked down economics"..?
RIGHT!!!
It's just not being sold that way.
The Republicans will do anything to support the party, even betray the majority of their constituents...exept their wealthy patrons. Best guess is that many of the Republicans will be among the missing when the next congress convenes.
21
We now live in an oligarchy. Democracy is dead.
65
It was dead before Trump too. Do not kid yourself.
By the way, how many Wall St bankers did Obama prosecute after they brought the world economy to its knees?
Answer:Zero (now he gets pay back speech fees from them)
2
It turns out Collins, Johnson and Corker are even stupider than the average Republican. They believe promises made by Con Man Don!
61
Well, I don't disagree with you Mr. Wenz, but I wouldn't say those three Senators are stupid, perhaps more like gullible or delusional if they truly believe what was promised from "the man". I'm really disappointed in Susan Collins.
2
Cowards and liars! I thought these servants of the elite couldn't go any lower. What scares me most is this smells of the final defeat of democracy by a 40-year economic war on the working class. They save themselves at the peril of millions of Americans, the planet and the economy of our country. This underhanded bill is worthy of bathroom tissue. Remove this slime from Congress now!
81
Please bathroom tissue has a realtime use for everyone.
But this stuff is a flash back to Trickle down economics ( tried to say that above but it changed when I pressed submit).
We really saw how that worked.
One of the lowest and saddest parts of this debacle is elimination the $250 tax deduction teachers can take for buying classroom supplies out of their own money. This is so self-centered, since most civil servant teachers are in the 25% tax bracket, which means the deduction is worth about $63.00 The Middle Class Tax and Deficit Increase Plan 0f 2017 proposes to eliminate student loan interest as a tax deduction while simultaneously eliminating the estate tax on non-trust wealth transfers over $5M, hardly a proposal that would benefit the common welfare for ourselves or our posterity, unless you are living in the top 10%. The 2017 GOP Middle Class Tax Increase & Deficit Growth Plan will be funded with human suffering and new national debt creation. The common welfare demands national debt elimination and improved standards of living for USA citizens threatened with economic or medical insecurity.
148
worse is making grad students pay taxes on the tuition that they aren't paying...
6
Why does a teacher need to pay from his/her own pocket for classroom supplies ?
The school districts are well funded to pay $250 for supplies.
And how exactly government will verify that a teacher actually spent that money for school supply ? Check every receipt from millions of teachers ?
The people who benefit the most are the 0.1% to 1% and of course Trump, his family, his ilk and we can not forget big business. Eliminating estate tax is the "crowning achievement" serving the ultra rich and very wealthy donors supporting both parties. This president , Ryan and McConnell are truly selfish individuals with no soul or morals. They pretend to care about the poor, the disadvantaged and the working class that barely makes a living and mouth the right words however, in reality they do not give a "hoot" about them.
What a sad state of affairs. This is not the country I recognize or came to admire so many, many years ago.
It is pretty obvious what is happening here. The Republican bill is designed to
give the very wealthy and big corporations the money to control the political process even more than they do now. As a bonus it is designed to shred Medicare and Social Security down the road as Republicans suddenly "discover" that there is ballooning deficit. Then when people discover they have been had, they will find that a corrupt plutocracy rules and there is little they can do about it. The Republican game and Trump's is to end democracy in the United States.
65
"The Republican game and Trump's is to end democracy in the United States."
Nobody NORMAL (intelligent, kind, moral, decent, compassionate, honorable, etc.) would EVER want to do any such thing.
In trump and the GOP we are dealing with the worst form of low life.
I am an agnostic, but I say every single day: GOD HELP US!
1
Republican efforts to change the tax system to put as much money as possible into the hands of the upper 1% and increase the deficit so that it breaks the backs of our children is the most unpopular provision of the proposed tax changes (well, perhaps this provision is now tied as the most unpopular provision with the provision to cut health care from millions of low income Americans). These provisions have made a lot of people mad. Say, 90% of the public.
Republicans somehow believe the tax changes would trigger a surge in economic growth, higher wages, and job creation. As has been recently reported throughout several news organizations, there is no evidence that such tax cuts have ever resulted in less debt.
Why do Republicans continue to make false claims to support unpopular provisions of their proposed tax cuts?
Why do Republicans strive to do all it can to lessen tax burdens for the ultra-rich and those who are well off, at the sake of astronomically increasing our national debt?
Does Hatch, McConnell, and the rest of the Republican Senators, along with Speaker Ryan and President Trump truly believe it is best to run up the debt out of our atmosphere just so the ultra rich can receive a tax break (while at the same time not providing a tax break for middle to lower middle income earners - and in 10 years increasing the tax burden these folks)?
20
To Mid-West and Western complainers here -
You FAILED to pressure your Republican Representatives to vote against the House bill.
In NY and NJ, we convinced our GOP Reps to vote against. You didn't.
I emailed and snail-mailed 350 neighbors in our Village to write and call our rep. I stuffed 120 envelopes.
You didn't.
Our GOP Rep voted against. Your Mid-West and Western Reps voted in favor.
How dare you come here to complain.
27
Aren't you the definition of self-righteous. As one of those "Western complainers" you so casually attack I'd like to point out that I don't have any GOP representatives to contact because in my area we didn't elect any in the first place. Maybe instead I should ask you how dare you live in a place that actually elected Republicans to office and how come you didn't prevent that in the first place? Also, to defend the "Mid-West" complainers, did you ever consider the distinct possibility that they live red states and have a minority opinion? No, instead you just point the finger and pat yourself on the back in the process.
Profiles in cowardice!
24
Obviously, no matter what the republicans say, we do not count.
I can understand Murkowski being bought off, but I can't understand Collins taking Trump's word for ANYTHING and I don't understand why Corker and Flake want to leave the Senate with their last important votes being lies.
51
Then you have paid no attention to Collins' career. This is what she ALWAYS does: Makes pretty speeches and then rolls over.
1
Apparently with stunts like raising taxes on the poor and giving tax cuts to the very rich, and electing an alleged child molester to the Senate, the Republicans are on a suicide mission. I hope they are successful.
41
Suicide or murder?
If we keep letting them get away with murder, they go further. It's hard to imagine how a single decent person voted for this boondoggle, much less the entire GOP. The words "disgusting" and "deplorable" don't go far enough. They've passed the bounds of reason, morals, ethics, and decency. They're contemptible.
2
Flake, Corker, McCain et.al...it's all just sound and the fury if they approve this bill and provide cover for Trump.
24
How do Republicans look themselves in the mirror every morning?
Their hypocrisy, greed, venality, and mendacity know no bounds.
My dog has infinitely more integrity than this freakshow of entitled jerks.
And all of them got bought off one way or another.
Shame, shame, eternal shame on all of them.
30
Our politicians are only representations of the public. Period.
A recent Quinnipiac U. Poll says only 25% of voters support the tax bill and 61% of the people believe it is primarily for the rich. Yet Republicans are stumbling all over themselves to pass the bill with little regard for reelection implications. Again ... Republican Congresssmen DON'T CARE what voters think or whether the tax bill is good for the average bill.
Voters really need to get their behavior in the polling booth straight. We're told that a significant factor in Trump's election was voter dissatisfaction with Government response to their needs. Folks, it is Congress who are the aloof elite who are feathering their nests and those of their campaign contributors. They believe that as long as their Super PACs have enough money to support their reelections, it doesn't matter what the people think.
They are right! If a Republican Candidate makes it through the Primaries financed by huge contributions from their PACs they are home free because at least half of the voters just pull the voting booth lever for their favorite Party even if the candidate might be Satan himself.
Folks, we get what we vote for and WE voted for tax increases for the Middle Class, and no wage increases, together with massive tax cuts for Corporations. Is that what we want? I guess so.
14
DGP CHUCK: NO!!!!!! WE didn't vote for this. Those who did are at fault, but the rest of us are being punished, and punished SEVERELY. Average republican voters have to wise up, and they WON'T because they don't lose their tax breaks until 2027, or something like that...and, by then, we will be a fully FASCIST regime. However, I do believe that this tax bill is going to create such a mess for most lower income taxpayers, including the loss of health insurance, that perhaps some might take their blinders off, and see these monsters, for what they are, in the light of day.
2
No, this is NOT what we voted for. Of course millions more of us voted for Clinton but even Trump supporters didn't vote for this. This is not what he promised.
What a liar.
1
The Republicans are desperate for a legislative win and the Democrats are even more desperate to deny them a win. It is all sad.
1
Nonsense. The Republicans are desperate for a win, in order to reward the HUGE donors. They know that this bill is an anvil dropped on everyone other than the .01%, and they are callous enough not to care. Destruction of the environment, destruction of democracy, destruction of decency. That's what they stand for. It's time to get the pitchforks out.
The Republicans are steering for the shoals of economic ruin and the Democrats are unable to gain access to the bridge. It is indeed sad for us stuck in the cargo hold.
1
Democrats have no say, not enough votes and will be blamed if this bankrupts the country, why, because Republicans can blame them and still re re-elected, its that simple.
So why bother staring up trouble?
Because its your duty!
9
My hard-working 33-yr. old son with Type 1 diabetes just got his notice of a health insurance premium increase of $50/month. That's a "tax hike" of $600 for him next year. Sure hope his "tax cut" is that much but there's really no way of his knowing before Republicans pass their bill. Their repeal of the ACA coverage mandate will guarantee that his premiums go up again in 2019. The cost of health insurance for him and every working person will continue to rise under the Republican regime because they will do nothing the deprives insurance executives of a single dollar of their multimillion-dollar salaries and perks. Republicans are also closing doors to higher education so that route to higher incomes is available to fewer. If Americans keep voting for Republicans, everyone in the middle-income zone will have to work longer hours and keep working until the day they die -- no retirement -- just to keep from sliding backward.
113
Do you think if insurance companies and healthcare providers (who get paid by insurance) deserve some of that blame for premium increase ?
Why assume the elections are honest???? And people didn't vote for Trump, they voted for the unpopular Hillary. Get rid of the electoral college, mandate hand counted paper ballots for a start. then take a look at Operation Cross Check which the media steadfastly refuses to do.
2
That may be just the start.
This is anti-education, anti-healthcare, anti-PR, anti-wage earner. It's only for the rich. I was reminded of Morticia Addams giving money to the fund for widows and orphans because she thought it would make more widows and orphans. That's how this tax bill works.
25
Much of the opposition to the tax bill is that many of the provisions that reduce taxes for most Americans expire in 2027. However, the expiration date was included so that the bill could be “fast tracked.” It prevents Democrats from killing the bill by asserting the “60-vote threshold rule.” The assumption is that the provisions will be renewed in 2026.
The tax bill is controversial in “high-tax states” because Americans would no longer be able to deduct state income taxes, but only about 25 percent of Americans itemize, which means that 75 percent of Americans don’t deduct state income taxes—they take the standard deduction. Since the tax bill raises the standard deduction, even fewer taxpayers will itemize. With fewer Americans itemizing, they will be less tax fraud. Besides, Americans should pay the same federal tax regardless of which state they live in. If residents of high-tax states thinks their state taxes are too high, they should vote to lower their state taxes.
2
Ah, but we like good roads, good schools, clean water, and all the other things that state and local governments can provide when funded and motivated. We don't want to be punished for choosing to pay for what we need.
That said, we should all admit that it is devilishly difficult, even with the best of intentions, to design a tax system that is equitable for people living in areas with enormous differences in the cost of living. Wages that would allow you to live within one hour of your job in much of California would make you a very rich person in Mississippi. Taxing all of us equally without regard to the cost of living simply isn't logical, but where is the balance?
Except that is the least of the problems here. Taxes will go up on everyone but the richest Americans by 2026 as a result of this bill. If the only problem was shifting more of the cost of running this country to the Blue states which already pay a disproportionate amount to the federal treasury compared to the Red states, that would be a problem but simply one of power politics over morality. Here, the people who serve in the military, do the hard work of keeping their families going every day and pay the real bills are being robbed by the people who need the money least. Thousands upon thousands already living at the margins will actually die (loss of health care, limitations on Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security) or eventually become impoverished, and our country's ability to defend itself militarily will be weakened, just to enable the Republican members of Congress to pay back their donors for their investments in their campaigns. The American experiment is being destroyed, the social contract ripped up.
1
Agreed
Everyone is so sure that this tax bill with wake up voters so that they will boot Republicans out in 2018 of the House and Senate. I have news for you. If I understand the way this bill is written, these tax increases on the middle class will not be felt by 2018. Republicans in the House and Senate are selfish and immoral but they are not stupid.
22
I think we read the same analysis of this tax change.
Most will see a cut the first year maybe a couple of years then the mess will start..And that's sad.
Remember Deep Throat, the Watergate information provider who pointed out the corruption in the Nixon Whitehouse and repeatedly told the Washington Post reporter to follow the money? If you do, that corruption would now be seen as very minor compared to where and how much money will be flowing into the pockets of the really wealthy who actually have control over Washington and that means control over every Republican elected official today. In this way the wealthy control our government and maybe every elected official who supports them should be considered to be treasonous. Once the Republican congressmen and the President, who is doing it to directly benefit his family, become aware of their possible incarcerations maybe they can move back to where they apply their beliefs that too much government is bad, and we must lower our government spending before lowering taxes.
1
This is what I feared would happen when we started putting our faith in the Flake/Corker/Collins/McCain consortium of supposedly sane and honorable Republicans to save us from the insanity of the ideologues who run Congress. In the end, they are merely birds of a slightly less garish red feather.
There are simply no words to describe the cruelty and dishonesty of this bill. Trickle down economics has not just come back to life, it's come back with a vengeance. The deception of repealing the "tax" requiring people to have health insurance, while simultaneously repealing the student loan and SALT deductions is truly Trumpian in its audacity. But this is nothing compared to the fairy tale of job creation and homeland investment being promised.
Millions of uninsured, sky-rocketing deficits, blue sky economic projections that no one believes, tax triggers, sunset clauses attached to middle and lower class tax cuts, all topped with the frosting of enormous tax relief for corporations and the super-wealthy. For anyone who supposed there was a voice of reason left in the Republican party, this genuflection before the Trump administration's need to score a win should put an end to that fantasy.
23
What I find most encouragung about this tax reform bill is eliminating state and local tax deduction. It's time the Federal government stop subsidizing high tax states. Here in Tennessee we don't have such an option since we don't have a state income tax, but at one time before the Obama reign, we could deduct sales tax. If the sales tax deduction was restored, I might be more sanguine to the state deduction, but until I oppose it! Also this deduction benefits Blue states that voted for Obama and Hillary Clinton. In that sense I see its elimination as a pay back of sorts for the disgraceful liberalization of America which I detest. I hope this tax reform passes. Our nation needs it badly. Thank you.
2
with this way of thinking blue states that support poorer stats with our tax contributions should stop contributing more than poorer states. and if you want to talk payback the dems will be back in power would you like them to pay you back for disagreeing with them? just a vicious cycle. maybe them blues and reds should each form their own country since apparently their is no room for understanding which makes us no longer one people?
20
Interesting how a "red" state person complains about how "blue" states tax themselves...and the implication that "red" states subsidize the "blue" states, given the deduct-ability of such taxes for Federal tax returns.
Maybe this individual should investigate how much the "blue" states subsidize the "red" states in Federal outlays.Perhaps an amendment to the Constitution that no state should receive more in Federal outlays(for whatever reason) than that which that state has contributed, is in order.
Mississippi and many other "red" states would qualify as third world states given that situation. Not to mention that the freeloaders in "red" states wouldn't be able to scream "states rights" anymore whenever national policies override their backwards approach to many social ills.
Just a note to those "red" state types, what goes around, comes around.
4
You might consider that red states in the South depend heavily on federal grants for everything from local water and sewer projects and highway improvements to public education. law enforcement and health services. For employment, they have many military installations and federal agency operations. They will not raise their own income and property taxes but they raise sales taxes that hurt low-income working people while giving big tax incentives to attract new industry. We in the South can expect less federal income to subsidize our state and local governments when this tax bill passes and federal revenue declines. Our infrastructure will deteriorate at the very least. Don't complain when it does.
4
This initiative will pass and become law; and in the long term it will raise the deficit, and harm many low income families. All this talk about possible defectors and potential roadblocks is a bunch of nonsense. Every Republican in the Senate will support this legislation proposal.
14
It is not clear to me how doubling the standard deduction will "harm many low income families." but anything can be interpreted to make it look negative.
1
Three hurricanes and a massive fire, all on American territory and within a few months, yet still the Republicans want to reduce the money available to help. Why?
20
"Three hurricanes and a massive fire, all on American territory and within a few months, yet still the Republicans want to reduce the money available to help. Why?"
Because they need the money for their rich friends. And they don't care about the rest of us. And they THINK it would be better if most of the rest of us DIE ASAP. What they fail to realize is if they kill off too many of us, they will have to start "feeding" on each other. That is what happens when you are an anti-intellectual! The vampires will have to start draining the other vampires!
1
Not so fast. Didn't you see how quickly Rubio reversed his position on disaster aid? They'll cut aid to your state (or territory), but not to their own.
1
Well, I had planned to call my senators, but I see both of them are quoted in this article supporting this evil bill. Corker has gotten very good at saying one thing and then voting another. Alexander has always been predictably wrong. It's really frustrating living in a state where you know progress will never come.
14
Buy stock in mobile home manufacturers. The new American Dream.
Many of those Republicans who support this bill will most likely not be in the Senate when the consequences of their actions come home to roost. There is no shame among them, nor do they care about ordinary Americans.
12
But they do not care they will have accepted millions under the table from their donors that they stash in their overseas accounts and they will have the best Medical care for the rest of their lives for free. They have no concerns or worries
1
"...nor do they care about ordinary Americans."
Agreed. And this is a criminal action on their parts because they were elected by us, to care ABOUT US. So they should be brought to justice. Instead of having these cushy, prestigious jobs, with great pensions and benefits...and abusing the offices to which they were elected, as well as abusing and shafting their constituents...they should be thrown out of office, and imprisoned.
1
“I’m not too keen on automatic tax increases,” Mr. Kennedy said. “I’m just not too excited about this idea of automatically tying our hands.”
Ummm, the bill already automatically increases all personal taxes after 8 years just to satisfy the weird rules that the Republicans have used to be able to (maybe) pass the bill.
C'mon, man, try not to be so obviously dishonest, it's just sad.
8
" automatically increases all personal taxes after 8 years" But that should only be a worry to you if you expect the Republicans to STILL be in charge in 2025.
And do you expect them to be in charge?
The poor are getting a tax cut NOW, and what happens later will happen later or perhaps it will not happen at all.
Not everything that Republicans do is evil. That is just thoughtless prejudice.
1
There are plenty of reasons this Tax bill should not be passed. here is a good one. To all you republicans that are concerned about Trump: giving him this "victory", regardless of how bad it is, guarentees that he will be your candidate in 2020 and probably your President as well. Defeat the bill or even delay it and he is out of your hair forever.
6
It is not "Trump's victory." It is the victory of the Republican party and Trump is merely going along.
Note for instance that provision that alimony payments will no longer be tax deductible to the husband.
For instance Trump paid $350,000 in annual alimony to Ivana. These payments under THEN law were tax deductible to Trump. But under the new law, rich men paying alimony will no longer be able to deduct them from taxes.
THINK before you judge!
1
What kind of person would intentionally harm millions, quite possibly billions of other people? There is your answer about the super rich who are taking tax payer money for themselves and the GOP that are taking money from the super rich while they make laws to harm the millions, possibly billions of other people.
11
Just look at the photo for this article those two Republicans sitting there probably saying boy I really did not know our voters were this dumb do you know how much money we are going to put in our own pockets, I may have to go buy another couple mansions and not declare them
2
Does anyone remember the phrase "taxation without representation"? This just exacerbates the problem of the taker-Red states bullying the payor-Blue states, whose citizens are already footing a highly disproportionate amount of the bill for keeping this country afloat. Since the powers in control in Washington have decided to raise their middle finger to anyone who did not vote for Trump, I have no idea why responsible voices have not started talking about the mechanics of secession. Nor have we heard the voices of the Democrats in the Blue states letting any Republican in a marginal seat, anywhere, know that every dollar that can be spent will be spent to let the voters in their districts know who did this to them.
8
I believe I have figured out their perspective and why they always claim massive corporate tax cuts, such as these, serve as job creators. As they see it, when a corporate tax cut comes through and they use the added savings to pad their already massive paychecks, they then go and buy more houses. Since they do not live in these houses year round, they need to be staffed with several caretakers. Thus, they have created more jobs! Way to go you captains of industry and masters of the universe! :/
3
A Sweeping Tax Overhaul means doing tax cuts and adding about two Trillion dollars to the 20 Trillion Dollar National Debt.
And doing nothing about Congress spending half a trillion dollars every year more that they collect in taxes-the Budget Deficit.
Congress does not even collect enough tax money to pay for federal budget items,and plans to do tax cuts,so they collect even less money, so the National Debt will grow faster..Great Idea
4
They've already hinted that they would get the necessary spending cuts from Medicare and Medicaid. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going to happen to people once that occurs.
2
Congress and trump are hoping that devastating the middle class will pale in comparison with nuclear war with north korea, and provoking terrorist attacks. It is working. Looks like it will pass.
4
Senator Collins, you are actually going to vote "yes" on this bill because Trump told you he is "supportive" of legislation to help stabilize the health insurance markets? Surely, everyone knows by now that this person lies every single day.
13
No, she's going to vote for it because she's every bit as bad as all the rest of them.
What she said was just the best lie she could come up with. And the rubes will swallow it whole.
1
The people to blame for this are not the Republican administration who are exactly who we thought they were - no surprises - but the illiterate 29% who voted them in with the help of the outmoded, except for Republicans, electoral college. It seems as though all of us will take a terrible hit and I really don't know if we will recover as the power structure strengthens and cements itself into a feudal that undermines any way we can restore democracy. Thanks to the easily snookered. It is no comfort to know that you will be in even deeper trouble than you were before your votes.
5
It's time the word "traitors" was used to describe this deadly dangerous Congress.
This GOP led cabal of flagrantly self-interested narcissists makes no pretense of even pretending to care for the people who elected it. Day after day they sit at tables and make decisions that actuarialists, healthcare professionals, economists and tax experts determine will cost X number of people, at the more benign end of the spectrum, more money but the consequences range from lost jobs, pensions, houses, educations, retirement funds, healthcare and, on the extreme end, death.
Yes. Death. The so-called "healthcare" bill was going to cost hundreds of thousands of lives. This Giveaway To the Wealthy Bill (it is not a tax bill) will gut what little remains of the struggling middle class and poor. It will usher in widespread suffering. That has been determined by a wide variety of independent economists. It's not debatable. It's a fact.
Sorry. I'm done with the lies, fake news, altered facts and euphemisms which have destroyed this country. Actively and calculatedly wishing harm on the very citizens who elected you --an act that can only imperil the democracy you pretend to prize--has a name. Treachery.
It's time to hold this Congress accountable. Vote the GOP out, all of them, at mid-terms and the next election. They are not fit to serve.
7
There is a bias in the interpretations. For instance, according to the new bill, alimony payments would not be tax deductible to the husband (the typical payer) and would not be taxable to the wife (the typical recipient).
Clearly this is a benefit to wives.
But how does CNBC interpret it? They interpret it as a "threat to wives" because courts will award less alimony.
But that wives will not have to pay tax is a FACT. That courts will award less is speculation. Who knows what courts will actually do?
So a speculation is put ahead of a fact in order to create a negative view of THIS aspect of the bill.
While I am not a Republican myself, let me admit that I am extremely suspicious of Democratic "interpretations" of Republican actions.
Sometimes I can SEE that what the Republicans are doing is indeed bad. E.g. on global warming. But sometimes what the Republicans are doing is GOOD and then a twisted interpretation is given to "make it bad" anyway.
People who care about Reason, be wary of BOTH Fox and the New York Times (or CNBC).
People say this bill is political suicide for the GOP but it is not. Most of these GOP yes votes have very cushy lobbying jobs lined up and this vote helps them immensely.
2
"calm and cooperative" as they move to pay off their donor your other headline screams while the rest of us making less than $100K/year are losing sleep worrying how we're going to pay both our increased health insurance and increased taxes. Can I stop filing? Can I move to another country? I know - I can move to red state where I can at least call these lying hypocrites and they have to take my call.
2
The bottom line is that the GOP wants to give tax breaks to their rich friends, including Donald Trump.
The problem is that those tax breaks have to come from somewhere. In it's current form, it comes from increased taxes on the middle class and poor. Individual Senators want to piecemeal change that. Well, guess what folks? You can't have it both ways.
Keep the tax cuts for the rich and piecemeal put back those for middle class and poor and the deficit goes up, kicking the can down the road.
How will the deficit be reduced in the future? Most likely by cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Again, this hurts the middle class and poor.
You can put lipstick on a pig...
6
These republicans have got to go and get their own salaries cut for the bad job they are adding to the TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS ADDED TO OUR DEFICIT! AND the cuts to medicaid and adding the taxes to everyone who is gonna pay more.
Americans WAKE UP and call those people like Corker and many others who gave in to this insane tax bill. Who are they kidding we understand that this bill will all have to pay for so the billionaires like these people in congress and the senate can benefit from this insane tax bill they are proposing.
Call these people and tell them NO we don;t want another trillions of dollars we will ALL ova to pay get them out of office come 2018 along with this "so called president who is BAD NEWS!
3
Not a lot of thought has gone into this bill, the affects will not be realized until this gamble actually goes into effect and the accountants get their hand on it. No one ever went broke wagering against the gullibility of the American people. The Republicans are betting the same fish will bite on the same worm again and again and again and they do. This economic experiment will most likely end up like the last Republican balloon, rise fast and sink faster.
2
US sold to the highest bidder.
13
Disappointed in Bob Corker.
9
"Disappointed in Bob Corker."
Disappointed? I am stunned. (Well, not really; I am onto these characters and what motivates them...and so are you!) trump literally ripped Corker to shreds before the entire United States. Insulted him up the ying yang. What is Corker thinking? I will tell you what he is thinking: He is thinking about GREED, and MONEY, and WHAT WILL BENEFIT HIM. Nothing else...nothing, nothing, nothing, and nobody, nobody, nobody else matters. It is so simple. It is so evil.
Trump and all other rapacious parasites in the USA get their holiday present early: Elimination of AMT (AMT cost Trump$20million+ in 2005) and elimination of inheritance tax on estates over$11million.
The Federalist Founders are not spinning in their graves as the GOP turns the Country backwards towards a few wealthy families (oligarchs, in modern terms) begin their reign.
5
Aside from being a one-sided giveaway to those who need it least, this tax bill is an unnecessary waste of the GOP's time. No one has shown a need for tax "reform," especially as it applies to the richest people in America, who are doing quite well and have been for a long time now. To want to avoid paying your fair share of America's expenses is unpatriotic, especially doing so at the expense of the poor and middle class. To use your time as a congressman to go against the clear wishes of a vast minority of Americans just to please a few elites is very close to treasonous. The GOP has no shame.
117
" doing so at the expense of the poor and middle class. "
Have you read the bills, house or senate ?
Specially the parts about double standard deduction and lower rates on tax brackets ?
They failed in their attempts to perpetuate literal slavery when they lost the civil war. This is the next best thing. Enslave, figuratively, the under class, those with the least, and celebrate yourselves as masters and overlords. And they wonder why we think they're deplorable?
2
WiseGuy:
The double standard deduction is a bad thing for low and middle income families. Don't you aspire to one day be wealthy enough to itemize your tax return? That day is soon to be twice as far away. Unless your family carves out another twelve thousand a year in deductions, all the other deductions are meaningless to you. What does it matter whether the mortgage interest rate tax deduction is still in place if you're never able to use it? The bill also eliminates several meaningful deductions already so the task is even harder.
Most people living in the 25% tax bracket are going to find themselves permanently stuck there unless they happen to make less than $12,000 over the 15% threshold in wage earnings. Face it man; you're getting taken for a ride.
1
I totally think this a travesty, but that being said, when the electorate wakes up to the fact they have been fleeced, and hopefully in 2018, and 2020 things revert to democrat control, can this not all be undone the same way?
can someone set me straight, or is all hope lost for a democratic free society?
1
As a State and Local Tax Blue Stater who, along with our other high tax Blue Staters will get hammered by the GOP tax law, I have to ruefully admit: The GOP was listening attentively when a triumphant Obama admonished, after his 2008 victory, “Elections have consequences.” The GOP is acting on that maxim with a vengeance. Thanks everyone!
2
There's nothing else to be said about it: the Republican tax bill is a lie, a fraud and a disgrace. It will not foster the sustainable economic growth that its supporters and the Trump regime say it will. Instead, it will generate monumental deficits far into the future, all for the purpose of paying off the GOP donor class and the party’s corporate backers. The poor, the working class and the middle class, who foot the bill for this generosity to the already-wealthy, will get nothing but a pittance; and, for many of them, taxes and costs will actually increase as a result of the plan. Trickle-down economics is a pathetic lie and a con-job, as has once again been demonstrated recently in Kansas. And there is no excuse for abolishing the estate tax, which should be increased. There are too many things wrong with this bill for me to list them all here. The bill cannot be reformed; it deserves to die in the Senate. Most Americans oppose this tax plan because it is not just a bad bill—it is treason against the interests of the American people, just to pay back rich GOP donors for their support and, of course, to enrich the Trump family personally. Senators should vote NO on this monstrous bill.
5
A government of the Billionaires, by the Billionaires, and for the Billionaires
3
Not meeting with Trump yesterday was the best thing Schumer and Pelosi could have done. Go Democrats.
1
Yes go Democrats... just go
1
Will there be a tax cut for purchasing "TRUMPY BEAR" ?
1
If Americans are unwilling to fill the streets with protest as democracy is dying, then so be it.
3
Gee, those Republicans really pull together as a team when it's time to blow up the deficit to fund tax cuts for the rich.
1
I'm writing this in absolute terror that this mean-spirited tax bill now seems likely to pass. My wife and I are retirees living in a high tax state and need to sell our home and move into a retirement community, but with $24,000 in real estate taxes (even with a $10,000 deduction), it seems the bill will make that impossible. So, on our fixed annual income of $144,000, we'll be forced to be house-poor as we face over $52,000 in mortgage, real estate taxes and home owners' insurance per year. It is a national disgrace to have us and many others financially punished by having our deductions eliminated to pay for the wealthy--corporations and individuals--to have their taxes permanently cut. It is only in the new era of the Trump oligarchy that I've ever witnessed a tax bill that creates winners and losers dividing ordinary citizens with some getting small, but temporary, gains and others large losses all to benefit those who need it the least. It's an outrage! Shame on Donald Trump, and shame on the Republicans for lowering our standard of living for those who already control most of our national wealth.
3
Adding $1,500,000,000,000 more to a 20 trillion dollar deficit, in order to award themselves more cash? The Republicans have no more credibility when it comes to deficits. Fake party!
1
We're better than this. I mean we are, not trump.
1
An unprecedented overhaul of the ways that this country taxes its citizens for national revenue gets rammed through in only a few days, with more than half of the country totally boxed out of its development? This by the same outraged (and outrageous) Republicans who called months of debates and hearings on the ACA "railroading"?
Okay - you want a tax plan, you duplicitous hypocrites? Here's one and I hope it's not too late in your super-short concept-to-rollout timeline to put it on the table: Everyone earning up to x% more than the national median for their family size gets a y% cut in their federal tax rate, with no loss of deductions. Everyone else gets a z% increase in their federal tax rate to make up the shortfall. You can work out x, y and z with the Democrats. Then folks will have more money to spend and businesses can use the income from increased sales to hire more and expand capacity to meet the increased demand. That took me two minutes to dream up, which, I'll bet, makes it a peer with your scheme.
1
I can only hope that an "American Spring," similar to the Arab Spring, will result from this travesty.
Shame on everyone of these senators for selling our nation down the river for the benefit of the wealthy.
1
fun fact
when you add all the PEOPLE represented by the YEA votes in the senate and compare it to the number of PEOPLE who are represented by NEA votes - MANY MILLIONS more PEOPLE will be represented by the NEAs.
taxation w/o representation?
1
The Liar in Chief says he will not benefit from the tax bill--yet at least 500 entities he owns will benefit. No tax bill until we see an analysis of how this bill helps Trump enterprises and until the Liar in Chief reveals his tax returns.
This bill is a total sell-out to the one percent who do not need it and a sure ballooning of the federal deficit. Please Dems shut the government down and do not go along to get along.
1
I am shocked (not) that so many reading the NYT are against a GOP initiative.
Schumer is up in arms that a tax bill is going fast... why was there so such concern during the creation of the ACA where we were told "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."
The ACA is far more likely to have longer lasting effects than any tax bill.
All this carping is laughable.
Very disappointing so far, GOP.
1
It's a big jobs bill for Wall Street, bankers, accountants, and lawyers. It's a theft of trillions.
1
One of my Senators, Senator Crapo, proudly displays a running ticker of the national debt on his web page. He has always fashioned himself as some kind of a deficit hawk, but with regard to passage of this bill? Nary a peep. It hasn't dawned on him or anyone in his office, that with the passage of this bill, he will be throwing some two trillion dollars on top of that debt. Astounding!
1
This just in . . . the GOP is changing their moniker from "Grand Old Party" to "Greed Over [We the] People" . . . No matter what your political party alliance, you should be outraged. But then again, the plain truth is the GOP doesn't work for we-the-people. Rather, they work for big campaign contributors who have bribed the GOP into doing their bidding in order to the GOP complies to ensure those big donations (i.e. bribes) keep coming. This tax bill (when combined with the one in the House) will end up hurting more Americans than it will help but the Republican Congress could care less because what's most important to them is getting a legislative "win", no matter what the cost is to the American people.
1
Why do you present a colorful graphic which is confusing and miss leading.
1) How many people are in this middle class you are representing and how is this defined in your chart.?
25,000 is .000 percent ?? of the total population of the middle class. Very poor for such a reputable newspaper.
2.). By presenting a number then a colorful graphic it makes what ever assumption you are trying to prove more "real" or to my point more confusing.
Graphics in news, politics, social media are a major part of "FAKE" data, sources and bonifed results.
Statistics and graphics woo the real American. Critical presentation with suscinct explaination can go a long way to representing Real News, with legal definitions of middle class and honest representations of the "sample" you are measuring.
Bottom line in this article the data and graphics provide nothing that a middle class American can relate to;. Plus your represention does not assist in explaining to a middle class Anerican what he or she can "expect."
(I hate statistics because it is easy to misrepresent data then to "clearly" provide the findings from your results.- so everyone can relate to your conclusions.)
Any Republican in Congress still left with a conscience who votes for this bill should be booted from office with utmost prejudice. Any feeble reason they come up with how this will benefit those most in need of relief, the poor, the working poor, the working class, the middle class, are lying through their capped teeth. This bill is terrible. It is an affront to most Americans. What 's most ironic is that its victims hurt mostly the gullible goobers who voted Trump and the Republican ticket. Think of it. How brainwashed must rank and file Republicans to be such rubbish. They are never going to be in the income categories this plan most benefits. At its core is to increase even further the wedge between the Haves and Have Not's. Unless one still buys Reagan's Voodoo Economic trickle-down theory, that only be rewarding the wealthiest will somehow eventually benefit those at the very bottom, this plan is a lot of hokum. It's a very, very bad bill. Voters who do not show their displeasure, and come out in droves to the polls next November to show their disapproval will only have themselves to blame for being so apathetically lazy.
DD
Manhattan
2
Republicans of honor can torpedo this tax bill, or they can deliver yet another torpedo into the belly of the United States. That "something must be passed" merely to upshore Trump's credentials -- the nastiest, most racist and morally obtuse set of credentials ever in the White House -- has become the driver here, a stunning development given the income inequality that this tax bill hardens into permanent American Plutocracy cement. Republicans of this Congress are the biggest threat to our country. The citizens of this nation reject this bill by a clear majority. Voting against that fact is surely treasonous.
1
The Tax and Jobs Cut Act of 2017. The Donation Protection Act of 2017. The Future SS and Medicare Death Act of 2017.
A good Democrat mid-term election bumper sticker: Feed the Rich: Vote Republican.
It would be comical if it wasn’t so rife with cynicism, lies, meanness, and greed. In other words, if it wasn’t so Trumpian.
1
"...the bill is expected to include some type of trigger that would require certain taxes to increase if the package does not generate as much revenue as projected."
OMG - the ghost of Gramm/Rudman lives!!
The picture of Trump, McConnell, and Barasso coming down the hall in the Capitol produced a belly laugh in me. All I could think of was the movie with Murray, Aykroyd, and Ramis. "Who ya gonna call? GHOSTBUSTERS!"
1
Once the country is pillaged by Trump and the Republicans, what are the Republicans going to do? This place will be virtually unlivable. Has Putin promised them all luxe dachas in the Crimea?
A big thank-you to protesters who are putting themselves on the front lines to protect the rest of us. We all need to write, call, email, or fax our representatives and make our disapproval known. 50409 is the number for the Resistbot. Text "resist" to that number and it will help you make that phone call, or send that fax, letter, or email.
2
Thanks to the SCOTUS Citizens United decision the Congress is owned by corporate America and the tax bill reflects that. Since none of these legislators actually fears the anger of their voters they are free to vote with the guys who pay their election bills. Why is anyone surprised? As for Dodo Donald he’s been a two faced liar since the word “Go” and no one should be surprised that he is also able to say this is “Grrrr-eat for America” and actually believe it.
1
This tax bill is theft on a scale that every Senator who votes for it should end up behind bars.
1
The “fix” is in.
Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?_r=0
“Mr. Trump knows the tax code far better than anyone who has ever run for President and he is the only one that knows how to fix it.”
1
And the rich shall inherit the Earth.
1
I just finished reading Jessica Bruder's "Nomadland," and I am shopping around for a vehicle to live in when this excrescent legislation destroys the social fabric that has held our nation together.
1
Take the money and run, I guess.
1
Never would have expected Republicans to become proponents of double taxation, imitating the worst and most unfair of European socialist fiscal policies!
1
The GOP tax bill is immoral. Eliminating the health care mandate and ending funding for CHIP to pay for tax cuts for the rich and corporations already flush with cash is absolutely sinful. Pretending to cut taxes for the middle class is a lie: increased costs of medical insurance is far more than the supposed tax cut can make up for.
99
Yes, it is immoral .. sure .. according to the entities who benefit from the government mandate forcing people to buy private product.
The Resistance should show up in Congress wearing Founding Fathers costumes, Washington, Jefferson, et al, and just say SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
1
>
This bill will pass. Your optimism is no match for the sadism of the GOP.
11
Dear GOP under a Regime:
I watched the "empty chair" stunt. Ryan and McConnell sounded like dutiful soldiers regurgitating lines provided by the dictator or Russia.
In other words, you both sounded like idiots and traitors. When you read
a script or support a dictator that's what happens.
This bill will increase my spouse's low-income (poor) taxes about $2k in 2019. It will increase a family member's that much, too. This bill will decimate me because of the lack of medical deductions and other deductions. I'm also a senior. I am one of millions Senator Cantwell referenced in the CNN debate last night who still itemizes and am slipping down the middle class ladder. She's right - we are out there. Cruz and Scott denied everything.
I finally heard a reference by a pundit this will kill the middle class and poor. It will. I'm looking at a very shortened lifespan. I'm likely not going to buy supplemental insurance because it will cost @9k/year.
I won't be going to doctors or any hospital next year. One way or another, we will be en route to our graves if this monstrosity, built for rich GOP donors (their words, not mine) goes through.
7
It's going to be a long slog digging ourselves out of this Republican scam.
7
Ah, the great liberal conundrum....”I live in NY, I live in NJ, I live in CA, my taxes are going up! Raise taxes, just not on me!”
High tax states won’t be subsidized by lower tax states anymore. And the liberal argument of “we give more to the federal government than we receive”.......well, that’s an example of liberal’s constant argument...”the wealthy pay more.” In this case wealthy states. Tell your state government to quit spending so much and your taxes will decrease.
2
You really believe this? Your facts are wrong.
1
You have it backwards. CA and NY and MA have been paying in more and the red states taking out more than their share forever. This is more stealing from the responsible to pay out those on the take some more.
1
We'll pay more taxes even though you're calling this bill a tax cut for the middle class.
Go ahead and gut our health care coverage, we'll give you a pass.
But keep up the nationalist rhetoric. Keep attacking Muslims. Keep railing against transgender Americans. Keep up the attacks on Hillary and we want her locked up.
Keep promising us the Wall and insisting Mexico will pay for it. Keep ranting inflammatory nonsense dividing Americans, we like it and will defend your outbursts no matter how vile, with "good, we're tired of political correctness!".
- Trump supporters
5
The "Billionaire Tax Relief Act" of 2017 marches on.
Republicans think Americans are stupid. Unfortunately, apparently enough of us are that we allowed this gang to hijack the government, with terrible consequences.
Hey NYT, can we stop referring to Trump as a "populist" now?
6
This reminds me of the often recited, often ignored saying “those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
Are the Republican Senators who have doubts about the tax bill actually believing Trump’s assurances about addressing their concerns? Are they that stupid? Trump is a habitual liar.
Part of me wonders if the only way for this country to turn around is for the GOP to get what they want. Perhaps it will take a majority of people suffering very obviously at the hands of GOP policies before the ignorant will wake up. When you and your children are homeless and starving it is hard to be concerned with gay people getting married, other people having abortions, or whether or not you can buy armor piercing bullets. And being bribed with phony “tax cuts” will be meaningless then. Of course we’re talking about the near obliteration of the middle class. But that is exactly the trajectory Republican policies have been putting us on for over 30 years. That sort of mass scale misery is nothing I want for this country. But people still aren’t waking up. They keep voting these crooks into office. And look what they are doing. This tax bill is wildly unpopular among the public. Yet they keep pushing it. Seriously, why do these types keep getting elected?
3
Skl:
Your first sentence about history repeating itself, is timely. Add in the gilded ages, everything is in place now that led up to 1929 and ultimately 2008 and many Americans have STILL not learned. I submit, however, this time, the results could be considerably more catastrophic.
Shame on the Times for the accompanying "Analysis" article that refers to this swindling of the middle class as "tax cuts." Not a single qualification offered in the entire piece to explain how false and deceptive that terminology is.
3
I am middle class retired living in N.J. my choice it's been my home since birth. I am not wealthy don't make even near a hundred thousand. This bill as it stands will increase my taxes by 1,359 dollars. So I will pay for corporate tax cuts, I will pay for the rich to have more, I will pay for hedge fund managers to still to avoid million in taxes because the "carried interest" loophole is still there. Still there even though this president said he would do away with it. It was a promise he made. Wake up you are being used. This president is destroying this country in so many ways.
There goes that good old moderate Susan Collins again. If the individual mandate goes, markets collapse and your "courageous" vote on the ACA is rendered meaningless. "Deficit hawk" hypocrite Corker is merely a coward.
2
I seriously hope that the United States citizenry wakes up in November, and remembers all that this congress and it's fearless leader, the clown prince in the White House, has done to us all. They have the moronic, blind faith, belief, that because the electoral college literally gave them the WH (which seriously should have been investigated- just how many members of that group were, shall we say "influenced" by outside "motivations" after an overwhelming actual vote that buried the WH 'leader'?) that they can hold on to the seats they now have. Fortunately that 'college' group does not say who is actually put in office! VOTE in November people before we are seriously doomed, if it is not too late by then!
2
Counties with a 20% corporate tax rate:
Egypt
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Cambodia
Estonia
Fiji
Finland
Kazakhstan
Libya
Madagascar
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Thailand
Turkey
Vietnam
Yemen
5
These people have no conscience.
5
Forget the American Dream... The United States of America is dead. We have a self-destructing executive administration. We no longer have a representative government. Congress belongs to rich oligarchs and is totally ignoring the constitution these days.
Thanks to this congress, there is no longer pretending the government is for "We The People". The rich have all the power and the rest of us are just here to serve them. If you can't afford a yacht, your proper role is indentured servant. They will let you make just enough money, so they don't have to pay for your room and board, but you will never get paid enough to be able to feel secure and enjoy life.
This tax bill is the final nail in the coffin of the middle-class. They may as well have a megaphone that says "Tough luck, suckers!". I hate Republicans so much right now. They are liars and thieves. They were unable to accomplish anything honestly, and are only in power due to a series of underhanded tricks and pure deceit. They have been cheating and stealing elections since at least 2000.
THIS is why there is a civil war going on right now, and if this tax bill passes, it is going to get so much worse. Dems are done being the nice guys. We ended up where we are, by being "reasonable" people. Republicans started this war, by showing us we have to be nasty or get railroaded. OK. Message received, loud and clear. You want a war? You've got it.
6
Given the spread sheet it appears the majority of middle class Americans, like my husband and me, will be receiving cuts and not just in the short term. For us, we'll see themn up to 2027. This coupled with the abolishment of the insurance mandate means even more of a cut for many of us. It's about time. Pass it.
7
And after 2027?!
1
@Shannon, this bill is going to hurt a lot of middle class people such as myself. I am already going to tighten the belt, spending will go down, jobs will not come back and we will fall into a deep recession. I already have a time table table as to when I need to move my 401K into a cash strategy because I am not going to lose my retirement savings when the collapse comes! When that collapse comes.....states like NV will feel it first and big time.
5
Do you understand that the massive debt increase will then automatically trigger cuts in social security and medicare down the line? Will you be equally happy with that?
6
Okay middle class and all of you who voted for Trump, you deserve what you get as you're too uninformed to understand that you're about to get shafted and shafted royally.
Make no mistake, this tax plan is all about multinational corporations and the uber rich as these are the two groups who will benefit overwhelmingly. If you're a middle class family, you'll get a token crumb, but only maybe and for that you are expected to be happy for.
I challenge any of you to do the research for yourself and that does not mean having someone like Sean Hannity or Limbaugh tell you what you're supposed to think. Do it for yourself, read and understand the details. I'd be stunned if you did this and still felt this plan was anything but the largest transfer of wealth to the rich and corporate American in our nations history.
11
I've seen both, and it is a rip off for us taxpayers. You are correct that it written for the uber rich and large corporations (multinational the most). Who it ISN"T written for, is the lower or middle class. I think it is safe to say 25% of us will see significant increases, and remember individual cuts are only temporary, while corporations never
1
It's incredible that the Republicans are even going to cut the legs off of the health care law as part of this artful con game, the tax haul for the Mar-a-Lago caste of Republican donors. Despicably, Republican legislators who went so far as to pay lip service to their constituents' well being when repeal-and-destroy was hurried out of the shed are now fine with destroying access to health care for many millions under cover of the trickle-down myth. On both the economic and health care fronts, the Republicans tell the lower 99%, "go screw yourselves and thank us on your way out the door."
7
I'm sorry it looks like this will happen, but apparently things need to get truly awful before people wake up. Good luck to us all.
3
it took Reagan two years of bi-partisan debate to make deal. Trump’s bill 3 weeks, no public debate still don’t know what’s really in it father knows best. 1.5 Trillion further in debt though REALLY?
5
Democracies often fail for just the reasons Plato discussed; the greed leads to what we have in this country -- oligarchy and plutocracy. Money moves to the representatives from the wealthy; these reps get "bought off." And the corruption sets in.
I watched the CNN disaster last night where 2 dems debated 2 republicans on the tax bill. Yelling at each other with lies and distortions (most republican) with no rational procedures but loads of irrational statements. A real disaster. Bernie Sanders tried his best to get out the truth but his opponents would give half correct statements, lies, exaggerations and incorrect data.
Is this the way to run a country? A network? Is this how a modern country looks at a problem and solves it? Perhaps America is to big to be governed now? Will more and more chaos and greed continue until a revolution starts?
The lies and distortions told about corporate taxes is astounding. Corporations are not taxed at 39%.
That is only one "marginal" tax rate for income between 15 million and 18.3 million. It never gets to that level with tax shelters and havens and write-offs. Corporate Income tax as a share of GDP, has been dropping since the 1950s.
Our corporations DO NOT have one of the highest tax rate in the world. That is a lie. Of all the G20 countries, the average EFFECTIVE USA corp rate is 29% and the Marginal EFFECTIVE RATE IS 18.7% (2012). Check out those terms. So the ACTUAL amounts payed are the "statutory" rates (the rates stated by law)
4
Frank:
I do find it rather ironic that in most of these televised debates we find a representative whom democrats consistently complain is not a REAL democrat, Bernie Sanders at the forefront of explaining the disastrous Republican policies and their repercussions, nary a democrat leader to be found.
In a nutshell, that probably explains why the democrats have been going
downhill for years and America now finds itself in this precarious position.
When you think about it, where's the real surprise? Any decent group of people representing hardworking, God-fearing Americans would be publicly reprimanding this president for his daily churlish, childish and caddish behavior instead of asking for his help in any way. Instead they refuse to answer any questions from their citizens and constituents, or from the Democratic colleagues.
I have some questions though I know the answers. We all probably do... how does this budget do any of the following?
1) Build and repair our infrastructure including the aging power grid and the roads that we use everyday?
2) Increase the incomes and rewards for the working class people?
3) Make college more accessible and affordable for our children and grandchildren?
4) Start to balance the budget, lower the debt for future generations and create a national rainy day fund for the next big emergency?
5) Protect all of our national resources for future generations; like clean air, water, fisheries and agricultural lands?
6) Provide health care for all of its citizens?
How does this budget do anything except pass along the nation's wealth up to its wealthiest? This is the sorriest Federal government, all three branches, that I have witnessed in my 7 decades as an American. Collectively they just have no shame...
4
I want to know more about this 'mechanism' that will increase revenue if growth does not in fact offset lost taxes (which it almost certainly won't). Would this mechanism happen to include automatic cuts to public services? Cuts to social security or medicaid/medicare? Would it increase taxes on the middle class? Would it (gasp) raise the corporate rate back to a more reasonable level?
This is a pretty major issue that absolutely should not be tacked on in the last couple of days before a vote using back-of-the-envelope math. This is the kind of legislative move that needs to be considered for a couple of weeks and justified by official CBO scoring.
PUT OFF THE VOTE!
2
I feel as though I'm seeing the true colors of the 21st Century Republicans: Pro-business-at-all-cost, ignore-and-squish-the-most-vulnerable, anti-Robin Hood. They do not work for the people that voted for them; they only work for the "people"--corporations and wealthy--that paid for them. This is not democracy; it's plutocracy.
My question is when are the American People going to wake up and smell the coffee? When will they stop voting against their own interests? And when will they stop electing officials like Trump, Sessions, and Moore? Maybe this tax bill will be it.
3
One consequence I HOPE follows from this tax bill will be less time spent trying to dodge taxes.
That effort claimed a great deal of money, time and effort among high-income taxpayers when the top tax bracket was, say, 91% (which it was, for example, throughout most of the 1960s). It resulted in taxpayers "investing" in some "businesses" that were utter wastes of money, just because those "businesses" offered tax benefits to the investors (for example, by enabling them to claim large "depreciation" deductions on "equipment" that should never have been manufactured in the first place).
When the top bracket dropped to 39.6% (and prospectively even lower under the tax bill -- 38.5%), many taxpayers concluded it's not worth the effort, especially since many "tax dodges" didn't actually eliminate tax -- they just delayed it (which often was useful even so). The 1986 tax-law change imposed many more restrictions (for example, that the taxpayer have obtained a legal opinion that the claimed tax treatment was "more likely than not" to prevail - an opinion that many lawyers refused to give for many of the more questionable tax-avoidance schemes).
39.6% (or 38.5%) is still much higher than many people would like to pay (0%, in most cases), but it's a lot lower than, say, 91%.
If this bill passes and becomes law, then the lip service provided by republicans ( as a whole ) means absolutely nothing ~ never has and never will
America will need to vote every single one of them out and replace them with fiscal Democrats that WILL NEED to raise taxes ( even further than what is being cut and more so on the top 1% ) while close all loopholes, otherwise the country will simply become insolvent. ( as just the interest on the debt will overtake spending power )
This is what you voted for people. ( at least a clear minority of you )
3
You forget that the government can (and does) print money. And China owns a good bit of us as well. Social Security has nothing but an IOU. That's why they want it destroyed, another thing to loot.
This tax bill is another example of the basic Republican policy: Government AGAINST the people.
2
Make America Kansas Again
3
An analysis of the tax plan by the NY Times clearly shows that the middle class will almost unanimously get a tax reduction. The few who do not, have very high deductions, which they will lose, probably because they have an expensive house probably purchased with inherited funds.
On Axios today is a report by McKinsey and Co. that by 2030 we will lose 30% of our jobs to automation and robots. Who will own those robots? The 1% of course. So in 2027 you'll be faced with a tax increase and downwards pressure on your job, not good for wages as we'll have super unemployment. And this tax bill is a round-about way to cut Medicare, SS, and Medicaid. It's written in the laws previously passed. So while the 1% expands their earnings we will be left with some crumbs. Trickle down indeed.
GOP leaders are going to get away with it. Trickle down rhetoric to mask the Trump-Kushner-Koch passthrough tax giveaway. But I am skeptical that voters will rebel next November unless the market bubble pops and fear returns to the voting booth. Trump and team will take credit for a global synchronized expansion that had nothing to do with them.
Voters power is only up to voting the officials to power. After that all the policies are influenced by money. And the voters have to face the brunt of all the changes and show their power in the next election after the damage is done. Hope the voters have more influence than the money when the policies are made.
We ONLY learn about the tax bill through what GOP "leadership" utters and the Dems condemn. The U.S. Taxpayers (i.e., middle class) should be given the right to actually READ what the bill contains. Too many of us have NO interest whatsoever in cutting taxes for the rich (corporations), when it appears there is actually NO savings whatsoever for most of Americans (who continue to help build our country).
1
Does anyone know if this bill kills the 3.x% that the wealthy pay for the ACA? I can't find a reference to it, and it would mean even more of a give away to the rich.
1
we need a NEW tax code and we all know it.
this one is designed to provide escape clauses for thye wealthiest businesses and individuals on earth, rather than collect the revenue necessary to pay the nation's bills.
The best thing about the current administration's practices and policies is time. With three years to go, we await the outcome of this legislation (and others repealed), which should allow the people to see that this administration is who we thought they were, which is not acting in the best interest of the people they represent. Godspeed, to make way for a new era of legislative leaders who will serve the people of this country and not themselves.
Proponents of this bill ironically invoke Ronald Reagan's name, despite the fact that the bill penalizes (among countless others) Republicans in California, the state that brought the party its gold standard. The House and Senate leadership conveniently forgets that the Reagan 1986 tax cuts shifted the tax burden away from individuals and onto corporations. This bill does the exact opposite. It was designed by Goldman Sachs alums for Goldman Sachs clients. Corporations get a 75% reduction in stated their tax rates? Corporations can deduct state and local income taxes but voters cannot? Real estate developers and hedge fund owners pay lower rates than employees? As a life-long Republican, it is time to take our party back from leaders who are only interested in doing the bidding of their billionaire donors. Query whether this would be a different bill but for Citizens United.
This reader is correct:
"The rich will be paying more because of the massive reduction of the SALT deduction. Any headline that says the rich make out like bandits on this tax reform is complete fake news."
Actually, this tax bill is hard to pin down.
SOME rich people will pay more; some will pay less. On balance, I think most high-income people will pay more, for the reason this reader mentions: the "capping" of the property-tax deduction at $10,000, and the elimination of the state/local income tax deduction. For most high-income people, these changes will cause their taxes to go up, even though the top bracket will be lowered from 39.6% to 38.5%. Obviously, though, that 1.1% drop in the top bracket will – "net" -- save money for some taxpayers -- not many, but some. Of course, there are many other provisions of the tax bill (eliminating the "alternative minimum tax," for example) that will affect different taxpayers differently, and so it's very hard to say how the tax bill will affect a particular taxpayer.
You missed the elimination of the AMT in these bills. The Alternative Minimum Tax, in essence, made it impossible for the better off to use the SALT deductions anyway...the effect of the AMT is to make a minimum tax regardless of claimed deductions for charity, taxes, etc.
So basically, the middle class loses its SALT deduction, the upperclass loses the AMT tax. Higher taxes for the middle class, lower for the upper class.
1
Yeah,
I did mention the AMT elimination. Sometimes that prevents a taxpayer from claiming a SALT deduction; sometimes not. For example, in 2016, I deducted SALT and did not pay AMT. As I wrote, it's hard to say how the tax bill will affect a particular taxpayer. Some well-to-do taxpayers will pay more; some less.
Trump and his family will enjoy another $1 billion USD if this tax cut travesty passes. Multi-billionaires will consolidate power and wealth. 99.9 % of Americans become completely unrepresented in Congress. If this passes, the US will be the largest banana republic on the planet.
Make no mistake: the true price of the Republicans' deficit-increasing gift to billionaires, multi-millionaires, and wealthy corporations will be the destruction of Medicare and Social Security, as well as any program that benefits ordinary Americans (such as education).
This is great news! The billionaires and corporations are really hurting right now. And, once it passes the corporations are going to give everyone else a raise to offset their tax increases.
Despite wild protestations of doom and gloom from the Democrat party, tax reform is on its way. American corporations will finally be unleashed to compete globally when the corporate tax rate is lowered to a globally competitive 20%. Whenever taxes are involved, you can count on Democrats, liberals and progressives to wring their hands and beg for more, more, more.
I wonder if they got rid of the hedge fund managers' carried interest exemption (like Trump promised), or the special golf course owners' and real estate investors' sweet deals? Or, maybe, they bagged the deduction for private airplanes and jets owners? Of course not. The fact remains NONE of us know what is even in this bill that is sure to have negative repercussions for the 99% of us for years - possibly decades - to come. But it won't matter; very soon, the oligarchical takeover will be complete.
Since many of the really bad effects of this bill will not be felt until after 2018 and even 2020, the GOP is not too worried. They feel they'll have the support of conservatives next election cycle. After that, it's anyone's guess.
Tax cuts for the rich, followed by cuts to services for the rest of us. And that is not the limit of the bad in this bill: opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling is also part of the package.
Missing from all discussions about this tax bill is the relief for low and middle class taxpayers. And yet I can recall Sec. Mnuchin saying that this was exactly what the bill would be designed to accomplish.
Somehow a 180 degree turn was engineered and now it’s about tax relief, primarily for corporations, and the already wealthy. As for those low and middle income class folks, tough luck.
So aside from reneging on a promise (or as is more likely with this administration, lying), the GOP has painted themselves into a corner with the folks who actually vote.
I hope we all remember this come next November, and vote.
What’s really clear with this bill is that the GOP donors are more important than the constituents.
I find that one of the most frustrating aspects of this situation is that, no matter how much we complain or resist or call these so-called representatives on Capitol Hill, they still end up doing what they want to do anyway.
I never though I'd see the day when 100% of the letter writers would object to a tax cut. I'd swear the readers think this is a tax increase. But then I have to remember the writers are all liberal democrats and any bill proposed by the republicans will be seen as a cruel hoax. I am surprised by he number of folks who think this will increase the debt. The didn't seem concerned when the Obama folks increased the debt by leaps and bounds. I am wondering if the objectors woiuld mind holding off on their rants long enough to find out just how the tax cut will really affect them. My guess is they don't have the slightest idea but are darn sure it can't be good if its a republican idea. Well, let me just add to the debate one idea. Any cut in any direction is better for the millions that heard the promise of a tax cut during the campaign and voted for it, not against it. And they were not the millionaires Schumer is worried about. Face it., We like the cut.
5
Unless you own a private jet and multiple mansions around the world, I'm wondering where you get your information from. Try harder. Thanks.
6
I don't see how you can say it's a tax cut for us and then say we should hold off until we see how it affects us. You both announce you know we will get a tax cut and that we have no idea what will happen until the final bill comes out.
As to the idea we have to buy THIS tax cut for the rich because Trump promised us A tax cut for ourselves, all I can say is I'm hardly surprised by the bait and switch. It would be refreshing if Trump said, "I know I promised YOU a tax cut, but I gave MYSELF a tax cut instead.....close enough!" Instead he lies and says he and the rich get nothing out of it. Feh.
5
Obama increased the debt in order to get our country out of the depression that began in 2008. This bill is increasing the debt just to give more money to the super wealthy -- big difference.
8
This ends with the Congress wildly unbalancing its efforts by helping one economic class over the vast majority of the rest of the people. Especially, as seems likely, if these tax cuts do not produce the benefits its proponents claim. The next thing for Trump, is that if these cuts are merely a huge drain on the national debt causing debt service payments to rise, he will try to renegotiate the terms of the loan. The unseemly Republican Senate horse trading that doesn't make the bill anymore affordable or fair are going to hurt them in 2018 elections. Especially with the looming election for the Alabama Senate seat in December.
2
I am sick and tired of the GOP senators that "voice concern" to every outlet available trying to portray themselves as better than the obedient ones but at the end of the day vote with them. Shameless. They all know who they are working for, and it's not us.
162
Call them and tell them so, MR. Here is the contact information:
https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
https://www.house.gov/representatives\
33
Very good idea, letting your opposition to be known, but the right side of the aisle just is plain apathetic to the middle class and lower. It is right up there with the electoral college giving Trump the election, though he lost the actual vote by close to 4,000,000. It's Reaganomics all over again: I'm rich, the heck with you!
They have a conscience good for the country !
This tax bill will probably pass because the Republicans in congress are extremely fearful of their donors and must deliver to protect their jobs.
They know they can always fool their clueless constituents with their lies. If this passes it will spell the end of Democracy in America as we know it.
A massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich. Oligarchy will rule with the rest becoming peasants struggling for crumbs to survive.
Thanks Supreme Court for your "Citizens United" and thanks Republicans for once again displaying your total lack of morality.
111
Fearful of their donors They must deliver to protect their jobs. No I believe their donors own them, they know they are doing the wrong thing but they are stuck. I also believe they know because of all this when vote time comes they are done, so in the meantime they will try to keep their donors happy, lining their pockets and screwing the middle class.
When this thing blows up, Republican fingerprints will be all over it. But I'm sure many members are thinking, après moi le déluge. It's the same way they think about climate change.
40
It will blow up and then in 2018 and again in 2020 when they get blown out of office the Repubs left will just sit obstruct and blame the Democrats for everything as they have done every time before.
No worry, Regan/ Bush did it. Clinton fixed it. Bush did it. Obama fixed it. Remember all the right wing pols , Limbaugh, Hannity, Levine etc... telling their followers that deficit was good and the minute Democrat became President it was the worst thing. They made their knownothing followers that it was the Dems did it.
What a sham - this doesn't grow the economy, it doesn't have conditions to force businesses to invest in America and jobs. Instead it's a pure give-away to corporate America who doesn't care a whit about patriotism and the rich. The rest of us will be paying for this disgrace that's done with expediency so that they can claim a victory. Why should any of us have to pay taxes since we're not being represented?
57
Well remember all the Trump cultists who stated they liked Trump because he was an outsider and a good business man. They had no clue that he was not an outsider nor was he a good business man, proven by all his bankrupts and law suits. Now they are seeing how much of a con, insider, and terrible business man he is and always has been. The funny thing is these people who voted for him are right in the class of people who are going to get screwed over the most
Because that's the price you pay for being one of the Have Nots.
Both bills stink. Both the house's bill and the senate bill stink.
I can't believe any self respecting politician who wants to be re-elected would vote for this bill. It should be a thoughtful bill that helps the people they serve, not just a piece of legislation they can get through in the first year. What's the point if that legislation does more harm than good to the majority of Americans? Oooh, you say it helps the wealthy donors....Oooh.
33
Where do I find a self respecting politician??
Also on the front page of today's NYTimes is a study of 25,000 middle class families and how they'd fare under the act. Every tax proposal is going to have winners and losers but according to this depiction, the majority. are in the former category. So, before you haters shoot yourself in both feet, you should study it.
1
Watching the demonstrators at this hearing, on tv last night, was heartbreaking. When the cuts to Medicare come as mandated, none of the Republicans who voted for this will object, and then they will cut Medicaid by a trillion dollars over ten years, per their budget, and cut Social Security as well. A more venal and cruel bunch cannot be found, including the donors who support them. Despicable.
80
This is really terrible. To think I voted for these hoodlums is beyond me. This must be stopped.
40
Welcome to sanity. Ex-Republicans are welcome in America... they can support their values, advocate for causes they care about, debate rationally with Democrats and others.
We're just glad you've left the so-called Republican party behind, which has become a cross between a racist cult and a oligarchic cabal that stinks to high heaven. It didn't used to be this way...
9
Don't worry welcome to the bright side. There are way more of you than the daily shrinking number who are still standing by these treasonous crooks and cons
Only people like you can stop it. Please talk with your fellow Republican voters, as many of them as you can, letters to editors and everything. GOP voters will only listen to fellow Republicans who have seen the light.
For those who thought there were honorable Republicans, this welfare for the wealthy tax bill demonstrates the core of their policies: "win at all costs". Deplorable.
49
Clear and painful to see with the GOP it is Party over Country!
1
It is hypocritical for America to vote republican, and then expect republicans to not act like republicans. They have explicitly promoted the notion that corporations are people, corporations without taxes produce employment and grow the economy, and that the rest of us should be grateful, disorganized, obedient, uncomplaining.
In what way are republicans deceptive? They are doing as promised.
If republicans are benefiting from the toxic opiate of white christian tribalism, that leads their adherents to chortle even as their taxes go up, homes and cars are repossessed, children remain barefoot, naked, ignorant and obese, their environment enriched by radiation and mercury, and the justice system run by theocratic ideologues - why would they not swiftly use this sociocultural reality to line the pockets of their sponsors (i.e., big business)?
For democrats to win again, it is quite futile to complain about this, and plain wake up to the reality that is America. What reality? Fox celebrated when the courts legalized dumping of sulfur in the air. Republican rank and file hooted and cheered when cops who shot black people were out on a technicality. There are few such analogs in history, reflective of utter evil coupled with intellectual vacuousness of such a large group of people. I.e., the reality that half of us line up to buy snake oil that is specifically formulated to destroy us.
How is this not a clear republican victory?
Kalidan
27
Once again Republicans have shown their single allegiance to their big donors. If this horrible tax "reform" actually passes, we will absolutely be entering into an era where our country is run by oligarchs. As the power and wealth further concentrates into the hands of a few, the middle disappears, corruption becomes the norm, and our infrastructure and eduction systems crumble, we're going to look a whole lot more like Russia. I just don't believe the group of less than 100 people driving this country off the cliff really care about the 300+ million they are supposed to represent.
36
We're not entering into era Julie. We've ALWAYS been there. There have been cycles such as the guilded age where their control was solid until it was broken up by dire financial crisises which forced to loosen their grip. The last time this happened was the Great Depression. The reforms that came out of that created the modern middle class. A development that the owning class has spent decades reversing. Geoirge Carlin said it best. They're coming after EVERYTHING you have.
How much proof do the American People need that the Republicans (Reptilian) Represent ONLY the interests of the 1%, anything supposedly "Benefiting" the middle Class is window dressing or talking points.
Wake Up America!
28
Corker sneers at Trump. Jeff Flake decries Trump's bad manners. Collins dithers in a fan dance—maybe she will, maybe she won't go along. Then overnight they feel reassured and join the mad rush to ram this thing through without regular order. With no public hearings, public debate. When oh when will Republican voters' survival instincts kick in?
40
Remember when Sue Collins said on an open mic that she thought trump was crazy? Now all he has to do is promise her he will do something for her IF THE TAX BILL IS PASSED (Only IF!)...and she is happy as a clam, and will vote in lock step with the other creeps. And anyone with a brain knows that trump lies like a rug, and will not keep his promise. If she votes for this piece of garbage and cruelty with the rest of the lice, she is complicit. Maine is mostly a very poor state; she will doom millions of her constituents. Some of these useless GOP creatures TALK a good game, but when push comes to shove, they are all in to make sure that the billionaires who pay them off are the ones who get the goodies, every time, all the time. As for the rest of us peons, we can just die, and the sooner the better.
1
This tax bill is so reprehensible. Forget the arcane details, frame it in terms people can understand.
Imagine that you are maxed out on credit to the point you can't even pay the interest. Now, imagine you just got a big promotion, which can save your family finances, but, instead of taking the promotion, you ask for less money instead, and get it. Then you go and get another credit card and use it to pay the interest on the other credit cards. After that, you go home and lie to your spouse and children about what you have just done.
That, of course, is incredibly stupid. Almost no-one would do it. But by cutting taxes at a time when the economy is booming and we have trillions of dollars in debt, that is exactly what the GOP is doing. It's incredibly irresponsible. But, of course, they know what they are doing, but being wealthy individuals themselves and in the thrall of the large corporations, they've all just learned to lie about it. These losers are killing America.
35
I like the analogy someone made to those promotional 0% interest cards. You run up debt and don't have to pay it off for a time. But if you don't pay it off by the alotted time, you get charged ALL the interest accumulated.
The difference is, with the Republican plan, you CAN'T pay it off. Middle class families run up $20k in debt, can't pay it off, then when the bill comes due they're told, "aww shucks, that's too bad. We'll have to raise your interest to 30%, cut your benefits and insist on regular, higher payments".
1
Liars and thieves, every one of them. GOP voters have exactly the government they deserve. It's just a shame they get to live in the same country as the rest of us.
22
Hi Steve! GOP voter here. I'm sorry that you feel that I don't belong here just because we disagree politically. Even though I live in New York, I don't personally believe that the SALT deduction is some sort of inalienable right. I also think corporate taxes are too high. I don't love this tax plan primarily because it keeps the higher brackets too high and prefer a more flat structure. That said, can we at least agree that people can disagree on policy and still reside in the same country peacefully?
2
The democrat's fortunes varies inversely with the economic prosperity of the American people. This must be scaring the heck out of "progressive" politicians when the GDP increases as a result of this sensible tax reform, "progressive" politicians fortunes will decrease. We could be rid of "progressives" in power for a generation! Whoo Hooo!
1
Guess what, Jaco? There will be no economic prosperity for the middle class and the poor. The country is being flushed down the toilet by the GOP. ONLY THEY, and their rich donors, will be laughing all the way to the bank. And then they will come for Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Your "economic prosperity" is going to be people (mostly elderly) dying in the streets. But plenty of younger folks will succumb, too. It is going to be one big REPUBLICAN Fiesta! The piñata is going to be filled with people who can no longer afford medical care, and ryan, trump, and mcconnell are going to use the biggest, hardest, cruelest sticks to beat whatever life is left out of those people. FIESTA!!!!!! DON'T MISS IT!!!!!!!
This is why they backed this piece of garbage for president. So they could get their poorly thought out, random, vicious, anti Obama mess passed.
19
I am aghast that the GOP is willing to act in violation of the will and interests of the American people. They transparently do not represent the people.
27
Remember in the movie "Pirates of the Caribbean" when Will Turner was sword fighting Jack Sparrow and Jack Sparrow cheated to win... then Jack Sparrow made a single word explanation of why he won... he said "Pirate". In the case of the GOP not representing the people... the one word explanation of why is... "Psychopaths!".
Superficial charm
Grandiosity
Manipulation
Con artistry
Fabrication of intricate stories
Impulsivity
Thrill seeking
Emotional poverty
Based on today's NYT accompanying article describing various beneficial and detrimental tax bill scenarios (https://nyti.ms/2icXs4P), I am the dot furthest to the left on the bad side of the scatterplot - single, at retirement age, about $80K in income. Add to that calculus, I live in California, own a home, and have a chronic medical condition, so my hit is probably even bigger. Looks like I'm the poster boy for how this tax bill will actually kill Americans. Thanks for the heads-up for a rotten 2018 (not your fault!). I bet I'm not alone in despising the blatant Republican theft of savings to feed corporate waste in the name of an elusive 4% GDP.
39
Ditto, ditto and ditto. Sickening.
(Oklahoma's Senator Lankford interviewed on CBS today didn't even claim all this middle-class robbery will lead to a 4% GDP, but only 3%, only 1% up from our steady 2% growth -- just wait until none of us can actually purchase the the increase in goods, etc. produced, where will the gain be then?)
"the Senate bill does not create nearly enough growth to generate revenues to offset those lost via tax cuts" What does that lead to, bankruptcy? Business tax cuts do not lead a more prosperous middle class. Corporations and the top one percent will simply continue to store profits overseas. Next will be sovereign territories for the wealthy to live within our banana republic.
Our businessman president can file bankruptcy and the American tax payer can bail him out and he runs free. Not so for common taxpayer. A college student cannot. She is forced to pay for the rest of her life for an American scam.
And how much Trump pay in taxes? Oh, guess that is none of our business.
Our country is a great disgrace to the us and the rest of the world.
24
The GOP is mistaken if they believe this will stem the election tsunami that awaits them in 2018. This tax bill promises another crash and recession, sooner than later, while adding $1.5 trillion to the deficit.
Mueller is building a case on Trump which will astound even his GOP enablers in the depth and breadth of his depravity. And at this point the GOP is guilt of colluding with Putin in its support of Trump. Even the most recent sanctions have not been enacted because Congress has not pressured Trump to enforce the legislation.
The GOP has nominated an alleged child molestor for Senate who was also twice removed from the bench for ignoring Federal law.
The American people will take America back from these despicable men and women .
25
If the so-called 35% corporate tax rate makes the US uncompetitive, then why are companies from China (Taiwan's FoxConn) and India (Infosys) building in the USA and hiring tens of thousands of US workers?
5
The Senate Budget Committee approves the tax “reform” proposal on a party line vote and Dow Jones skyrockets 255 points.
The market knows exactly who is going to benefit by this tax plan, and it ain’t the working stiff.
22
So we have three assurances from the President: one to Sen. Collins, one to Sen. Johnson ,and one to Sen. Corker.
Anybody want to take a bet with me that we go 0 for 3 on how many of these assurances get met?
10
Dan, what kind of an imbecile takes the assurances of a pathological liar? Seems to me that if they have done exactly that, Collins, Johnson, and Corker truly ARE imbeciles. Why Corker should do anything for trump is beyond me; trump savaged him! If I were Corker I wouldn't even spit on trump.
1
Why don’t the democrats negotiate? Three holdout republican senators held out and seem to have achieved what they wanted. Three democrats could have negotiated for something they wanted instead. But they just couldn’t because that would mean voting yes on the rest of the bill. Saying no to everything means you get nothing though.
3
Jim, as I understand it, as reported in multiple outlets, nothing, but nothing was actually on offer to the three most conservative Democrats who were given a few photo-ops to admire Mr Trump, but not actually asked for their proposals, ideas, suggestions, input, or even given a hint of what garbage the Republican leadership was trying to stuff into their oligarch's giveaway. The Democrats -- Manchin, Heitkamp, etc. -- could NOT negotiate because no one on the other side would actually talk with them.
1
Negotiate on what? Let the GOP do this in regular order, then you'll see negotiation. Let the GOP craft a bill in which 80% of the cash goes to the "bottom" 80% of Americans, you'll see negotiation. Dems won't enable a rank giveaway to the fabulously wealthy, to the job destroyers, to the wage cutters.
What we really need in this country is election reform so this situation would not exist in the first place. Baring that, I think, unfortunately, this is just going to have to play out. The republicans are counting on many of us not being informed about the real facts behind this tax cut bill and I'm sure they are right. If this bill passes, then people will finally wake up to the truth, but it will be too late. We vote these politicians into office to represent our best interests and they wind up representing the rich one percent because the rich one percent, in turn, finances their re-election campaigns. It's really very simple when you think about it and also disastrous for the majority of Americans.
14
Since average citizen tax payers were not in 'The Room Where It Happened' we would like to see what got traded away. Because these elected persons do not seem to be disposed to acting in the best interest of working Americans.
4
Where is the call to see the president's tax returns to understand the impact of what is being proposed on the con man who is seeking to cash in again.
8
Is anyone talking about how this affects single homeowners? I'm divorced, and I routinely itemize well over $12k. In fact, my (extremely) modest income goes as far as it does because I used the prevailing tax code to make some important financial decisions. This tax bill will be devastating for people like me. I just can't afford this squeeze coming from multiple directions.
I honestly don't know what I'm going to do. The divorce decree restricts where I can live, and I can't really afford to rent a decent two-bedroom apartment, either. I guess I'll be taking in boarders to make ends meet.
11
Ditto here. You do get the idea that no one has explained to these presumably married Representatives and Senators what the effect on single people who itemize will be. Nor has the news media focused on that either for that matter.
I put it down to the fact that journalists don't really understand math that well. However, after the final bill, in whatever form, is passed, there will be lots of angry people. A lot of them will be single.
2
Just as expected.
Of course they changed their votes, didn't even take them half an hour to fold like a card table because their concerns will be addressed "later in the process".
What a joke.
I hope the people that honestly thought these Republican Senators would vote against this atrocious tax bill finally learned their lesson.
There is no honor in the GOP.
Murkowski, Corker, Collins, Johnson, Flake etc. speak up in public 'voicing concerns' to score political points, nothing but posturing to get some concessions aka pork barrel heading their way via amendments to the bill, and then in the end they always put out for their mega-donors.
The current tax plan is going to pass because Americans in general are uninformed, choose to be uninformed, and the evening national news shows have become prequels to Entertainment Tonight (ET) and Access Hollywood.
This country was founded by revolutionaries who fought a war against England to escape taxation without representation. And now look where we are because of apathy, ignorance and hubris.
We the People are no longer represented because the peoples' representatives have been selected and paid for by the very same people that benefit from this "paradise tax bill", will have many egregious unintended consequences that are both foreseeable and not yet anticipated.
It was sad and frightening to watch disabled, desperate and sick people being taken out of the hearing by police as they were trying to change the minds of the Republicans.
9
Each senator received an honorary degree from Trump University at the end of the lunch meeting.
9
Would that we had the courage of the colonists, who dressed up as Indians and dumped boatloads of tea into Boston Harbor, to protest the tea tax. Today, they'd be criticized for insensitivity to our beloved Native Americans (see, e.g., US citizens rotting on reservations), destruction of crown (I mean Federal) property, and promptly hauled off to jail.
Unlike everyone here wringing their hands, the colonists rejected passivity and made their point. Admittedly, it took another small demonstration of resolve at Lexington, Concord and Bunker Hill for the Crown to fully comprehend the message.
In the 1770's, Americans took their liberties seriously. Fourscore and seven years later, they still took them seriously enough to fight the second civil war in our history. Today, we cluck like scared chickens, and return to our smart phones, the true opiate of the masses. What, exactly, did Washington et al fight for?
2
"By the People and for the People" can now be amended to "Hold onto your Wallet, this is a top down regime"
4
Trump is desperate for a victory, as are the Republicans, so they will vote for anything as long as it kills the estate tax and lowers the tax on millionaires. We have come a long way from America the Beautiful.
7
American voters in every state elected these political predators and voters alone can fix this by un-electing them.
9
One more nail in the coffin of Democracy in The United States of America.
I hope operatives for the International Mafia Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/Radical religion Good Old Boys' Cabal enjoy their "christmas", knowing that they are also helping destroy world order.
Why? Why would they want to do this? The Mafia has no allegiance. The operatives who do their bidding now will have their lives destroyed right along with the rest of us.
The New York Times is tweeting senators to vote NO! Every single American who values their lives, and the lives of their children and grandchildren, will take time RIGHT NOW to call, e-mail-write, post on facebook and other social media and/or tweet to tell OUR senators to VOTE NO on this giveaway to the Robber Barons who would destroy us.
Here is the contact information:
https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
https://www.house.gov/representatives\
6
Cabinet leaders whose goals are to eliminate their programs.
Giant money grab from those with less to those with too much.
A President who very likely is treasonous, along with the rest of his family.
He is poisoning our institutions as well as our standing in the world.
These dispicable people do not work for Americans, they work for Corporate America. Real human Americans are doomed.
89
Republicans do not care about budget deficits if the money goes to corporations and the rich. Ideologically, many Republicans believe that tax cuts on corporations bring about investment spending which stimulates the economy but they still want tax write-offs on business investment spending. They do not want to hear factual and historical evidence as to when and for whom tax cuts stimulate the economy and when they do not. They do not want to hear about current huge corporate profits. Facts and historical experience get in the way of treasured ideology. Bed rock what Republicans believe in are anti-abortion, anti gay marriage, and pro guns.
36
Taxes for corporations should go down in order to be on a level playing field with other countries. It is a huge disadvantage for the US. Taxes will go up for many wealthy individuals because of the near elimination of the SALT deduction. More taxes for the rich, isn't that what Dems wanted?
1
There is a big difference between nominal corporate taxes and what corporations actually pay. It is simply not true that higher taxes place American corporations at a disadvantage in international competition.
2
Enjoy this Christmas, it may be the last one celebrated in a Democracy.
61
Trump voters, you are getting exactly what you voted for. Don't complain when your taxes increase - I have absolutely no sympathy for you.
97
Lex, I agree with you but do not forget history. Here in Massachusetts a Republican governor removed tolls from the western end of the Massachusetts turnpike. This roadway was self supporting with some of the money coming from out of state motorists. Within a short time tax money from the general fund was needed for repairs and upkeep. Two administrations later a Democratic governor had to re-institute the tolls. The Republicans and their uninformed supporters immediately jumped on this as an added "tax" while blissfully ignoring the economic facts. We all know if this country comes to its senses and changes the party in charge this will happen on the national level.
7
Please don't imply that the Mass Pike was ever, at any time, an example of fiscal responsibility. The bonds that were issued to fund the Mass Pike, were paid off decades ago, through tolls collected. The tolls were kept in place, and of course raised, to fund the bureaucracy that the Pike became. A Pioneer Institute report estimated that 45 to 50 cents of each cash transaction on the MA Pike, and Tobin Bridge, went to pay toll workers’ salaries, costing the state $55 million that year. Open Checkbook records revealed that full time toll collectors made, on average, $88,369 in 2014. A majority of these collectors earned over $90,000 in 2014. One earned a staggering $136,033. This is not an example of "the senses" that the country needs to come to.
1
More tax money will flow from Blue states to Red states that are already 'takers". The poor in the Red states will be the least effected and of course they will have all those new Clean Coal jobs to boost their income.
The other party is a traitor!
3
Which one?
That's the point. Everybody hates the other!
This is sad for the USA.
This travesty of each political party declaiming about the deficit only when out of power will end when we have an Article V constitutional convention that results in enactment of a balanced budget requirement and other reforms of Congress or the dollar collapses and the federal government with it. Whichever comes first.
6
balanced budget amendment would destroy this country. The only time the US paid off its debt we ended up in a recession. A balanced budget amendment would make it so we could not fix a recession with government spending.
2
What makes you think that a Constitutional Convention would be limited to addressing the deficit? Once the Convention is convened, anything goes. The Convention is simply a ruse by right wingers to find a legal way to eliminate civil liberties, establish a true theocracy, and destroy democracy. If you truly believe in a balanced budget requirement why not try to amend the Constitution the usual way?
RE: He [Trump] made promises to some and admonished another. “It’s going to have lots of adjustments before it ends, but the end result will be a very, very massive — the largest in the history of our country — tax cut.”
Let us remember that Donald Trump lies. All the time. Lying for Trump is like breathing, automatic, instinctual.
Second, let us remember that as developer he has learned the art of "telling people what they want to hear in order to get what he wants". Making promises he doesn't intend, or knows how, to keep is what he does. It's how he got rich as great business man.
So finally, let us not forget all the others he made promises to, and left them holding the bag, while he declared bankruptcy and ran away holding the money. He makes the promises, you get to keep them.
Congress, The Donald is acting like The Donald and you are falling for it. Again.
55
It is crystal clear that this tax reform will give large permanent benefits to a few wealthy people and large corporations. This is not a partisan opinion or a point being debated, but clear fact.
And it's just as clear who most elected Republicans are working for; those who benefit most from this "reform" bill. It has become a country "Of the rich, by the rich and for the rich", where yet another huge deficit will be paid off in future years by the average taxpayers of moderate incomes.
Why is it so difficult for Republican voters, including the Trump supporters, to see this? Or, if they see it, why are they not screaming at those who they elected to kill the bill and do something for the average Americans?
21
They're drinking the GOP Kool Aid.
The lowest 55% of income earners pay zero income taxes. The top 10% pay 40%. However, over the past 50+ years, those in the lowest quintile see the highest average income growth of any quintile and will experience lower taxes as they move up the income ladder. Over time, the people within those 5 quintiles are NOT the same people.
Any Senator or Representative who votes for this bill owns it. They also own all the inequity, misery, loss, and anguish that will result from their gift to the wealthiest individuals and institutions in America. These Republicans are proving this week that the only things that they represent are their own greed and self-interest represented by their donors. History will look back on this week as one that completely changed America--and not for the better. Those Americans who voted for Republicans also own the results of this bill. I hope that it affects their lives--as it should.
34
The idea that there is anything like a "Republican moderate" is a total myth. They have always gravitated to those with money and they always will. This is going to be bad news for most Americans and for the Natin's stability, but these hypocrites do not care. As the deficit soars, they will be back in short order to argue for cuts for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and what's left of domestic discretionary spending except for measures that help their wealthy benefactors.
25
We used to have bipartisan bills, so there used to be GOP moderates. They are all dead, but this tax bill is not. They may have been the party of greed, but there was an attempt to lead. The GOP helped to impeach Nixon.
How soon after the new senators and representatives are elected can this whole thing start with honest reform and fair negotiation?
11
Reid , you left out impeaching the WH crew as part of cleaning the Augean stables. Are the Dems up to it ? Maybe , if there are million person marches every weekend to shake the gates of the WH off their hinges & visit Congress with barrels of tar & feathers.
1
Setup for the next crash. Trump is the scapegoat. Be warned, legislation is already in place for a bank “bail-in” in Europe and I am not sure if it has gone through in US yet. Cyprus was the test run. A bank bail-in means that banks confiscate money from bank accounts. After all, when one deposits money in a bank, you are actually legally an “unsecured creditor”, if the bank should go bust. See Ellen Brown’s website. Next time, it won’t be a bail-out, but a bail-in.
4
The Republican tax bill being rushed and pushed through Congress without any hearings or debate demonstrate how dysfunctional the process has become. A tax cut for the corporations and donor class of the 1% while supposedly at war with Islamic Terrorism worldwide and in effect "Starving the Beast" to lay the blame on the enormous deficit/debt on entitlements to justify the privatization and elimination, effectively creating a mutant 3rd. world country.
7
The next crash is coming with Trump and the GOP leading. It'a just another bankruptcy to Trump.
What will Jeff Flake do? He made such an eloquent speech in Congress just a couple months ago about he decline of our government. Will he now vote no to prove that his speech was not just empty words? Somehow I doubt it, even after Trump's insults and the fact that he has nothing to lose now that he isn't running again? What about Susan Collins, who stood up to the Republicans for wanting to abolish Obamacare? Will she now stand up again to her Republican colleaques, who want to remove the individual mandate as part of the tax bill, which will destabilize Obamacare and make even more people uninsured? It seems like she too is wavering. What about McCain who voted no also to healthcare debacle because proper procedure wasn't followed? Will he vote no on this tax bill, which with no public hearings or input from Democrats makes a mockery of proper procedure. Will he vote no? Somehow I doubt it.
These Republicans, most of whom are millionaires, will vote to increase taxes on the middle class, raise the once scorned deficit, force graduate students to pay tax on their tuition, jeopardizing innovation in our country and decreasing necessary funds to fix our crumbling infrastructure, to give their corportate donors and the top 1 percent even more money. They care nothing about their constituents or the country. They only care about their donors and their own jobs. It's a disgrace! What makes it even worse is that the silence from most Democrats has been deafening.
307
As an Arizona voter I can assure you Flake will vote for the middle class tax increase. Flake is a man of words, not deeds. As high minded as he sounds, Flake votes the company line.
5
'It's a disgrace! What makes it even worse is that the silence from most Democrats has been deafening.'
AND, to say nothing of the silence of the American electorate.
2
Miriam, what exactly would you have the Democrats DO? Thanks to gerrymandering the Republicans own government and most of them are unlikely to be voted out of office even if Democratic voters now decide to turn up at the polls in big numbers — something they did not do in 2010 and which allowed the Republicans to gerrymander after the census. BTW the Administration is already messing with the 2020 Census to bias it in favor of Conservative areas.
1
Republican grifters steal the American Dream! That should be the headline.
PS How do I set up a shell company and move my money off-shore? Don't want the Donald and company to think I'm a moron!
16
50% of Americans pay nothing to the IRS if you can believe it. If this tax bill can force those people to contribute something, in all for it!
3
Yes, let's drag those children out of school and put them to work! Let's empty the old age homes and find something that grandma can do to earn her keep after only a lifetime of giving. Yes, let's not pay people enough to qualify for taxes to best to lower the bar on taxes (much better than than raises income to level of taxation!). Let's get the people off their conservative rural porches and their pickups with the gun racks, with their government handouts complaining about all the liberals who don't work. And of course there are all those work-in-the-home moms who thought they were doing the right thing for their families.
5
But still pay all sorts of taxes and don't forget many multinational corporations pay no tax at all and multi millionaires like Warren Buffet pay 15% so whats your point?
1
@Jay Lincoln
Yeah right. Your top one percent idol stash their cash off shore including your idol Donald eluding IRS and stiffing immigrants working for him. Show a proof that fifty percent you stated.
1
This tax bill represents the final payment in the outright sale of the United States government to the Koch brothers, the Mercers, the Devoses, the Waltons, other billionaires, and corporations. The GOP is not even trying to hide anymore that this bill is not for the American people but for "the donors." Some GOP legislators have admitted it. They are placing their own generously-paid-and benefitted careers above the people they represent. I suppose there is some relief in knowing for certain what many of us have believed for years, but that won't help when we see the final pushing down of the middle class into poverty that will result from this. And the transition of the US into a feudal society, where the oligarchs own everything and the rest of us scramble for scraps, will be complete.
And Americans will still blame the black guy.
138
It is a corrupted version of Reaganism on steroids. And they know it. This is what many of these men went into politics to achieve for themselves and their cronies back home.
5
If I was a betting man, I would put money that Medicare and Social Security "reforms" (AKA cuts) are looming next. Oh, yes!
30
Dear Forgotten Man,
FORGET YOU!!
Sincerely Yours,
The Party of Trump
20
People keep saying that this bill is a boon for Trump. Even with this bill, I'm sure Trump will still find a way to go bankrupt.
8
Yes. He will bankrupt the nation.
5
I’m tired of the automatic liberal complaining about “tax cuts for the rich.” If you all actually delved into the current analyses available you’ll see that ALL income levels get about a 3% increase in take home pay due to lower income taxes. Since wealthier individuals pay the lion’s share of income taxes in this country (the top 5% pay 2/3s of all taxes) their 3% is a larger number. If you don’t want the top to get any break, then a tax cut has no value as the engine for economic growth (the anemic 1-2% growth seen in all 8 years of Obama’s administration).
If you want to talk about giving money to the poor, let’s make that part of the welfare reform conversation, not the tax reform issue.
Although I’m not in the top 1% I do question how much money does the government need? Bush’s tax cuts actually increased federal revenue by more than half a trillion $ (look it up!) during his last 6 years, but federal spending increased by even more.
“Houston, we have a spending problem.”
7
What makes you think the "liberal complaining" is automatic? Are you insinuating we can't read. Or think. Long ago I calculated that the Republican House bill will increase my taxes at least $2,0566 in the first year. It is harder with the Senate bill still in flux, but it won't be less.
While you may be right about an average, the taxes I pay are not an average at my income level. They are my taxes. Which here in Massachusetts will be going up for people like me- meaning I will be spending less and I know that you wan't spend more with the extra you take in to make up for for my spending less.
Calling it a "tax cut" when it increases taxes for a significant number of people is a lie.
So the question is, if we have a spending problem why isn't Congress addressing that first? As you would at home.
1
Tax cuts do not cause growth DM (Reagan, GW Bush - talk about anemic - and Kansas). OB dug us out of a deregulated crash and if you can't take that into consideration it may explain why there are no sources for your imaginary 3% across the board cut. But i am willing to cut spending on Red States.
1
Then why is there non-expiring portions for corporations, while the average citizen has his or her deductions expire in a few years? And if true, why will corporations be able to deduct state taxes with no limit, and the average citizen have little or none allowed?
2
The Republicans or should I say the super rich see this tax bill as a "not necessarily permanent" bull market. They plan to take as much money from the tax payers as they can for as long as they can.
The Republicans have blatantly said that they are passing this tax bill because the super rich have told them that unless they do the Republicans won't get any more of their money. So a handful of people that can loosely be called people are sacrificing the entire population of this country and quite likely the population of the planet so that they can get more money and maintain their power.
The sad thing is that everyone knows that for the super rich, the republicans are the only game in town... as far as taking complete control of the US government. The GOP being without a soul and they don't have any understanding of Morality, Fairness, Empathy, Cooperation, Reciprocity... animals get it. How come they can't figure it out?
Go to YouTube: Frans de Waal: Moral behavior in animals
Which profession has the most psychopaths? The answer is: CEOs
12
Republicans have sank to lowest of lows. It is the darkest hour in America. The enemy of the people has arisen and like Satan has no regard for anyone.
And Republicans bow down to this evil force and trade their souls for his glory.
People rise up now or forever be forlorn. Be scared be very scared.
15
Agreed , the GOP barbarians & 1%ers are inside the gates. The American empire (with its 800+ foreign military bases) is slipping down the drain as ALL empires do. It had a "good" run as long as you didn`t live in Vietnam , Iraq , Chile , Cuba , Palestine , etc.
1
Democrats had so much success historically with "tax & spend" that the self-proclaimed "frugal" Republicans apparently saw the light, have picked up their crumpled and discredited banner (stained as it is with red ink), and are leading the charge to grow the deficit to new and exalted, dizzying heights!!
Yay, democracy... or is that 'idiocracy'?
1
You are completely wrong John. Bill Clinton had a budget surplus and GW Bush broke the bank once his wars went on the books. Vote Democratic if you want to Fix the Debt. Start with looking at the national debt under Carter vs Reagan (hint: it was lower under Carter).
3
In the Bangor Daily News this morning, in an article written by Michael Shepherd of the BDN staff, there is a photo of Susan Collins smiling widely.
It turns out that "Trump promised to back bills stabilizing the health care law IF THE TAX BILL PASSES." (My emphasis.)
And, Collins has bought it.
I know Maine. It is poor, it is old, and it has been stripped bare by LaPage and the indifference of Collins.
Don't think that she is going to vote against her beloved Republican Party.
With her it is Party First, Party Always.
These tax giveaways to the rich are going to destroy that fragile state.
Let's face it, she's no Angus King.
18
It does not make me happy to call U.S. Senators to lobby against yet another hideous piece of legislation. In this case, the tax bill, which is an enormous gift to the wealthiest of the wealthy Republican campaign donors. Just guess who foots the bill for that!?! So, I called. To make it easier for you, here are the Republicans who are waffling, why they're waffling, and their phone numbers:
1) John McCain, 202.224-2235, by eliminating the mandate to sign up for health insurance, this tax bill would decimate Obamacare, which McCain recently voted to save
2) Susan Collins, 202-224-2523, ditto.
3) Lisa Murkowski, 202-224-6665, ditto.
4) Bob Corker, 202-224-3344. He's a super deficit hawk and this bill would dramatically increase the deficit.
5) Ron Johnson, 202-224-5323, very very right wing, this bill doesn't give businesses enough tax breaks in his view.
6) Steve Daines, 202-224-2651, ditto
7) Jerry Moran, 202-224-6521, not sure of his reasoning, but he's from Kansas which just had a big financial disaster thanks to the kind of trickle-down economics the tax bill espouses.
There ya have it. I didn't actually have to talk to ANYBODY. I just left messages
6
Unfortunately, not a single Senator from VT on this list, so the odds they will listen to you are slim to none.
This can't happen here. Or can it?
6
No honor among thieves.
8
I find it strange that Republicans think if they shove this through it would be a "win" for a year of what has been an obvious trail of failure, and depravity.
10
What's the right word? Feckless? Feeble? Duplicitous? Disheartening? Cowardly? Craven? Senators like Jeff Flake, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Bob Corker, and John McCain are the people who could, if they have the backbone, stop the sociopath in the White House from doing the harm to America and American democracy that he is attempting. Until they do, the NY Times and all of us should stop showing them any respect and should not offer them any cover.
8
The rich will be paying more because of the removal of the SALT deduction. Isn't this what Democrats wanted, for the rich to pay more? Or Dems only wanted rich Republicans to pay more?
1
SALT is only one aspect of this bill. The problem is increasing the debt to (again) subsidize corporations with high profits. It does nothing to increase investment for the common good.
We want them to bring all the money that that are hiding overseas back to the USA. They have loop holes up the ying yang, made up tax eliminators like carried interest, offshore accounts all over the world. Once upon a time these people would be looked at as what they are, tax evaders and not very ethical or patriotic. Today the party of Trump sees them as savvy and people like you and I who pay our taxes as morons. Well, emptying the Treasury some more is not going to rebuild our infrastructure or rebuild our middle class.
Whatever happened to Republicans? Now they love deficits and the Russians, and electing a child molester is better than voting for a decent, well respected Democrat, who would've guessed.
1
So, at the end of the day, all it took to sway those few 'uncertain' Senators was a little bribe - which is exactly why they were holding out in the first place.
Great performance.
12
All evidence points to passage but reconciliation with the house remains unknown. The steady rise of the S&P indicates the market believes the two houses will reconcile, but anything is possible. What is certain is the republican scorched earth policy. Republicans sense that their reelection chances are slim so better to grab their golden parachutes from the tax cut corporate beneficiaries & move onto their next job in the private sector. It doesn't matter that they will harm the middle class, eliminate health care, and blow up the deficit. At this point, republicans are paying off their corporate sponsors with no regard for the ramifications or the solvency of the nation. Of course, republican success with Gerrymandering could keep them in office which means democracy, as we've known it for 200+ years, is in its twilight.
3
“A flurry of last-minute deal making helped garner the support of a few Republican lawmakers who had expressed concerns about the $1.5 trillion package, including its treatment of small businesses and its effect on the deficit.”
But nothing of concern regarding the bill’s many effects, vindictive in some cases, on the middle and working classes, the national debt, the goodies slipped in, among others, to kill ACA and allow tax exempt religions from directly involving themselves in political activity.
Right, guys, we get it. We all have our priorities and the need to stay bought.
4
The shift from itemized deductions and exemptions to a larger standard deduction is EXACTLY WRONG. It shifts more of the tax burden (1) onto those who are charitable in order to reward those who are not; (2) onto those with high medical expenses to give a tax break to those who don't need it; (3) and onto those are already highly taxed by their state and municipality to give tax breaks to those who don't need it.
5
Our President keeps spewing nonsense about his concern for the middle class...his and most backers of this plan are desperate to appease their big donors and get something, anything passed before the end of the year. The swamp is not draining, it is expanding. Hope his 'base' is happy with the outcome...
4
To the Senate and House of Representatives:
Don’t vote for the current Republican led tax schemes. They are a bad choice for the people and long-term economy.
4
The corporate tax cut is completely absurd, as most large corporations - which now account for the vast, vast majority of market capitalization- are sitting on great piles of cash, much of it parked off shore. If they needed to invest it, they already have it.
On the front page of Bloomberg today there is a piece on CEOs saying that they will give the money from the tax break to shareholders. It's astonishing they're being so honest about it: they're literally admitting the tax break is just a give away to shareholders, who are in the great majority very wealthy. And, as shareholders, idly so.
So it's just giving money to rich people for doing nothing other than owning stock.
5
I agree with this reader:
"... when Obama raises the deficit, what an outcry from them, but when they do it, it's OK."
I am disappointed that this tax bill appears likely to increase the national debt considerably. Nor do I blame Obama for increasing the deficit. It nearly doubled under his watch, but his administration was just writing the checks that had been mandated by earlier legislation, legislation passed during prior administrations controlled by both major parties.
On the other hand, I can't recall any prior complaints from Democrats about legislation that would increase the national debt. This hand-wringing solicitude for the financial well-being of our dear country doesn't strike me as credible.
1
"Deficits don't matter" -- Dick Cheney
2
Even if Trump resigns or is impeached at some point, these tax cuts will benefit him and his family significantly, enough so that all the chaos, damage and stress of his presidency will have been worth it to him.
6
B-b-but Trump said the tax bill is "not good for me, believe me.” Are you calling our president a liar?
So what the Kochs and others are saying is that even if they are wrong about their fantasy growth from these cuts, they don't want a trigger to fix it. Doesn't this mean that even they don't really have much faith in their basic premise of cutting taxes to spur growth? What would be the harm in some safety measures if they are so sure of never needing them?
6
Well beyond political compromises and slight adjustments in the legislation lies the simple fact that Corporate America is demanding a return on their investment, and it looks like they will get it.
Since the Powell memo of 1972 the corporate elites have responded to 60's liberalism with a vengeance. Six corporations now control 95% of our media. Net neutrality, the last sliver of open debate is hanging by a thread. ALEC writes legislation for all the GOP state houses and after Citizens United corporate control of our political sphere is now complete.
Are there exceptions and islands of democracy left? Of course. Total control would put us right on par with Putin's Russia and Xi's China. American exceptionalism demands that we maintain the illusions of popular democracy.
But if this tax bill passes the deficit will explode and the same fiscal conservative who are cutting a massive hole in the federal budget will demand that it be filled by slashing Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Trump is already cutting social spending everywhere else. This last act will signal the end the New Deal and the triumph of money over morality.
The corporate cash is already lining up to make 2018 a banner year for politicians, but this is a dark day for working people in America.
10
The concept that decreasing the Corporate Tax will increase production & offset the increased deficit is fallacy. The only thing the Corporations are concerned with is their Share Holders. They will do anything to increase profits, which requires low labor costs. Where they can replace labor with technology, they will & & where technology can;t be applied they will out source their labor costs.They have no obligation to increase labor & replace the Factory jobs Trump promised the Rust belt Blue collar workers, who voted for him.This will turn against them & be their downfall, in the Midterm elections.The rich will get richer & the poor will fall by the way side.
4
And they are only concerned with those shareholders who have preferred stock. They are quite happy to pillage those who can only afford a few shares of common stock and those are the first stockholders to be wiped out whenever one of these corporations makes a move to keep even more of "their" cash.
The Brits have a wonderful expression: "a horse and rabbit stew (made with one horse and one rabbit)." It means a mixture of the gross and the delectable in grossly unequal proportions, with the gross overwhelmingly dominant. For years I've been looking for an American equivalent. "Lipstick on a pig" doesn't quite do it. Well, I've found it; it's this tax bill. Maybe some small, temporary benefits for some of the poor and middle class (a tax increase for others), but giant, permanent relief for the wealthy and corporations. And send the bill to future generations yet unborn - yet another $1.5 trillion in deficits. As Archbishop Ntagali said, "we are eating our children's future." Remember when Republicans cared about deficits?
2
As far as I can tell, the massive deficits this plan will cause is all part of the GOP's long-term strategy.
Take from the poor and working people of the country and give to the rich. Then insist that the resulting deficits are not sustainable, and start cutting services and programs such as Medicare, Social Security, and all the other programs the poor and working people of the country depend on.
Nice little two-for-one package when you think about it.
8
Based on a dot graph published yesterday in the New York Times, my family, which files as a married couple without children that takes the standard deduction (which will double under the reforms) will receive a tax cut. That's what matters the most to me right now. Indeed the reform maybe be temporary, but hey, I am in this game for myself right now, as I believe most people are when it comes to how their hard earned money is being spent and by whom. Thank you.
1
Yep, we are now an every man for himself nation. Take your bribe and turn your back on millions of your fellow citizens who will lose access to healthcare and the millions of children who have already lost it. Let's become a decaying and ignorant nation of radical Christians and White Supremacists, because that's where we're heading. It makes me sick how far we have fallen from the people we used to be after WWII.
3
..and if the tax breaks don't bring about the touted economic stimulation which would more than offset revenue lost through proposed tax cuts? GOP opposes tax hike triggers. Uh huh. Not willing to admit they may be proven wrong, and worse in their mind - lose some of their tax cut goodies.
1
I couldn't sleep last night. I had planned on retiring in 2019. Not only will I be paying more taxes next year and in my retirement when my income drops - when it comes time to sell my home - the real estate industry is predicting the value of my home will be 15% less (living in a high property tax state). I am middle class. How much more do the republicans want to take from me? I know business's are not going to put more money in people's pockets with their new found cash. They have it now. How many of you have reaped benefit from that? Not me or my coworkers. This is just an evil bill.
12
How is it possible that there is not a single Republican on the Senate Budget Committee who has the courage and/or the wisdom and/or the compassion to simply say, enough is enough, this is just plain wrong?
The emperor has no clothes and, like Alice in Wonderland, we keep falling and falling and falling. . .
8
I wonder when the American people will finally turn on the Republican party, when the "base" will wake up from it's fever dream of "freedom". This tax bill may be the final straw. I sincerely hope it is.
8
Head scratcher?
"...Everything about the Senate bill is ... punitive towards coastal states..."
How can this be, you ask? The Senate bill (like the House bill) doesn't specify higher rates for "coastal states." Hmmm -- what can this complaint mean?
Answer: Coastal states are more likely to have taxpayers who will be hurt by a $10,000 cap on property-tax deductions, or by elimination of a deduction for high state/local income taxes.
How many poor people, or even "middle class" people (whatever that means) who live in expensive homes or have high incomes? Is this beleaguered group of well-heeled taxpayers the group we should be worrying about here?
Apparently some people think so.
Once again, Republicans are in power and the price of Oil is higher again. It's on-the-highway robbery all around from commodities to taxes to profit skimming.
3
Russian-Republicans are uniting around their oligarchic Russian Orthodox Christmas gift.
More gold for the gilded; more poverty for the peasants.
Noel ! Noel !
Ноэль ! Ноэль !
The Cold War is over.
Russian-Republican oligarchs won in both countries.
110
What a sad day in America when permanent tax cuts for corporations and billionaires are done at the considerable expense of ordinary Americans who often work multiple jobs to keep afloat. The GOP and their paymasters disgust me. They are creating a structural imbalance in our tax laws and budget that will be remedied by attacking Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security down the road. Heckuva job - cementing a dynastic capitalist aristocracy and a downtrodden serf class in one fell swoop.
108
Where are the Democrats? It's been radio silence lately when they should be whipping up the opposition across the country.
154
Weird deflection. The Dems don't have the votes to block it.
Democrats don't want to upset their own donors by opposing this bill.
4
Ha! As if enough people will listen!
Did enough people listen when Trump made his disgusting and unpresidential announcement for his run for office? Did enough people listen to his ridiculous responses to debate questions? Did enough people decide that the Access Hollywood tape disqualified Trump from being President? And the list goes on.
The Democrats can scream from the rooftops til they're blue in the face. It doesn't matter. There is a white, male minority in this country that wants all of the money, power and good things in life for only themselves, their friends and their families. They don't care one whit about anyone else. There will be no hope or change until the majority of voters accept this reality and stop voting these abhorrent people into office.
1
A sham and disgrace as the 99% get taken to the cleaners once again. Where is the outrage?
42
The rich will be paying more because of the massive reduction of the SALT deduction. Any headline that says the rich make out like bandits on this tax reform is complete fake news. Trump is sticking it to the blue states, that's for sure. Blue states are 'rich' vs. red states.
1
Time to read the tax bill!
1
“I think we’re going to get it passed,” Pay God that they don’t!
Now that Trump is reintroducing Christmas and therefore God into the equation it feels permissible to say that.
What is going on in Congress and the Senate is pure theatre for the American people. Republicans need to make it look like there is some give, take, compromise and changes so they can say they were responsive to many concerns.
Campaigning, Trump promised to eliminate our national debt in eight years. Current estimates put our national debt at $32 Trillion in ten years. Trump and Republicans will own the $32 Trillion!
Many Republicans were deficits hawks when the debt was skyrocketing when Obama was fixing the past Republican tax cut, two unfunded wars – one was a Republican lie, and the US lead global collapse of financial markets leading to near depressions under a Republican President.
We must find a way to hold self-interested Elected Politicians and their staffers, from both parties, personally liable, responsible and accountable for the lies they have told US, their gross mismanagement of our county, our $20.6 T and growing national debt (108% of GDP), and our $100 T in future, unfunded liabilities they forced on US jeopardizing our economic and national security, while benefiting themselves, their staffers, their party and special interest donors.
http://www.usdebtforum.com
11
I know "pay God" is a typo, but only the beneficiaries of this bill are paying any gods. The gods of greed, avarice and their donor gods as well. Unfortunately the real God allows us to act as our conscience guides us, and it is clear and soon irrefutable, those currently in power have no conscience.
1
The way to hold them liable is to impose term limits, eliminate congressional pensions ( let them 401k), require congress to follow the same laws they impose on the rest of us, and prohibit them from cashing in the D.C. Influence racket after their terms. They then have to go out into the wilds and make a living like the rest of us under what they have created. This can only be done by an Article V convention. The princes are not going to dethrone themselves.
Yes J, unfortunately it is a typo! Agree with your reply!
Donors are more important than voters to these Republican politicians for two reasons: First, is the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision allowing unlimited donations from corporations and dark money. The second is gerrymandering, made more precise through sophisticated mapping technologies and big data.
While citizens can't do much about the Supreme Court decision, they can put pressure on their states to create independent citizens commissions to draw congressional boundaries. Check out the Fair Districts website in your state. This is no time for anyone to be sitting on the sidelines. Our democracy is at stake here.
28
Who's providing these so-called assurances, the Dumpster? Then those GOP senators had best get them written in blood first. This travesty of a tax bill is just another glaring example of the GOP putting party and greed before country with the liar in chief leading the way. This needs to stop and the only way to do that is to get out and vote in 2018 and beyond. That includes all local and state elections. The importance of voting cant' be stated enough.
15
200 billion for hurricane damage, trillions for badly needed infrastructure spending, health care costs out of control, our country still spending hundreds of billions fighting Muslims and these bozos want a tax cut? I thought our economy was doing pretty good right now. Wait for the crash, conservatives love to tank our economy.
28
Senator Susan Collins may vote yes on this bill? This is a real shock and disappointment.She bravely voted against the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. The Senate bill guts that act, removing the individual mandate. The result will be that millions of individuals lose their healthcare. No "assurances" can adequately offset the terrible cost of this bill.
76
Please call her.
Again, this is a $1.5 trillion cut in services to the American people.
It'll be tough to blame cuts in Social Security and Medicare on people with dark skin after Medicaid and Food Stamp programs are gutted.
Get ready for a war somewhere in the world, because that's the only thing that will take attention away from all the anger and social disruption that will occur once this bill becomes effective.
46
I am surprised the wily Rs that want to permanently stuff the already overstuffed coffers of their donors and increase the national deficit don't see the long game here. It is a fact, not an opinion, that the majority of Americans do not like this bill - at all, and do not like the Reality Star President - at all. The bill runs completely counter to what Americans do like: dependable ACA; support for small business; promoting education, among other things. Any R, apart from the most craven (McConnell, et al) that wants to survive a mid-term, or that wants to avoid being forever tarred and feathered as a Trump sycophant (and let's see where that gets you in the long run) needs to say no. The nation is watching- it is a huge opportunity to show courage, leave a meaningful legacy, and/or create a national profile that is truly populist. (I'm looking at you McCain, Flake, Collins) Also, a great opportunity to push back against the reckless, poisonous partisan divisiveness that has so defined this indescribably inept administration.
8
I’ve read that congress is not seeing or hearing mass opposition to this bill from the voters. It’s very hard to write a letter when you don’t have a clue what’s in the detail of the bill or what specifically it will effect. Congress will just have to wait until we find out what’s in it, but do they care anymore? Are the voters even their constituancy? They’ve apparently written a tax bill for billionaires who fund their campaigns and schemes to supress the vote, most of whom pay very little in taxes already because they are stashing their money in offshore tax havens.Those people won’t put more money into the economy. How much more can they spend? They're hoarders. But the faction of the economy that would increase spending with more money in their pockets, labor, the middle-class and small business will have to pull in the purse strings. It’s one more step down the road to distopia.
10
With the news this morning of Matt Laur's "inappropriate behavior", I could only think that this could hardly be the last straw in the woman's liberation movement on this topic. But although I feel for the victim's sexual abuse and exploitation, obviously totally unacceptable, I can only give lip service to empathy not being in their shoes. But I think I can feel abused and exploited when I see the Republican party exploiting their power to enact legislation that clearly abuses an even greater population. I get it because I feel powerless and victimized. And this tax act, along with all the other stuff going on with the president and his party should be the last straw so that sensible citizens are motivated enough to vote the end to this once great country's madness. There is NO excuse to not vote.
26
The GOP will pay dearly for this horrible tax bill next November. They are a sickening group with an abhorrent leader at the helm heading straight toward the iceberg.
67
Let's hope so!
3
lol, oh you
1
Unless of course the Russians interfere once more and hand it all to the GOP.
1
This is a crime. There will be accountability. You better think twice before you do this. Mark these words: You will be held responsible.
27
The Senate should adopt a new slogan - "Victory at any Price." What's more, how anyone of them could take any comfort from anything that comes out of the mouth of BLOTUS is beyond comprehension. Disgusting!
14
Well the American people voted these clowns into office and now its time to see what's behind door number 3--wow higher taxes for the vaulted middle incomers and a give away to the ultra rich courtesy of the poor and middle incomers. That's what happens when our astute populace want something different which includes a president who has a hard time with reality and a congress bought and paid for by the ultra rich. Strap on your seat belt because the ride is going to get a little bumpy from here. I hope the tea baggers and the alt right are happy!
15
A Christmas gift to the American people lied by Donald. Donald and GOP are Scrooge.
5
I fear the GOP more than ISIS or North Korea.
175
Sad, but true. I bet millions of us feel the same.
3
Yes, the GOP is the worm within the rose.
1
It is perfectly reasonable to fear the GOP more than ISIS or North Korea because the GOP are the more dangerous enemies if you are an ordinary American. American "healthcare", poverty, stress and environmental degradation together kill many more Americans than ISIS or North Korea can even dream of.
1
If the corporate and wealthcare bill only has a 25% approval rating the question is who are the Republicans, elected to represent the people in their districts, representing when they vote to pass this thing?
If they would have us to believe that all Republicans love it are they saying that Republicans only make up 25% of the voters?
Something seems seriously off base here. If it isn't people who are being represented than who - or probably more appropriately, what - is being represented by the Republicans?
344
Marie writes - "If the corporate and wealthcare bill only has a 25% approval rating the question is who are the Republicans, elected to represent the people in their districts, representing when they vote to pass this thing?"
It is almost as if the Republicans know (for some hidden reason) that no matter what they do, no matter how against the grain of the American majority sentiment, that the results at the ballot box will return them to office. As if the voting system has been rigged to guarantee their continued memberships to Congress.
But who would be doing the rigging? The Koch's with their billions pouring into politics taking command of the local landscapes? Aided and abetted by the likes of Mercers or Parscales who crunch the numbers and spew out the minor adjustments needed to guarantee swing districts swing the right way?
Maybe Trump was correct.
2
@Marie: You are looking at the effects of Republican gerrymandering and it consequential disenfranchisement of voters. Our city of more than a million is divided into six different congressional districts, carefully sliced and diced into tiny sections, each one of which is glued onto a huge swath of conservative voters in suburban and rural areas.
This effectively wipes out the impact of all Democratic and independent voters in the city and has handed the entire state on a silver platter to Republicans, whose seats are so safely gerrymandered that they are no longer obligated to pay any attention to any of their Democratic voters. They feel free to arrogantly lecture us on any issue. They are free to thumb their noses at any non-Republican voter in their districts, and to do any outrageous thing they want to.
Our current rep, Michael McCaul, is married to a vastly wealthy heiress, and I'm sure he is very eager to pass the estate tax, since it would benefit him directly. As a matter of fact, all of these new rules would benefit him directly. Why these men aren't forced to demonstrate how much they personally would benefit from this welfare for the wealthy bill is one of the failings of our system. They're literally enriching themselves at the public trough, and we're powerless to do anything about it.
We can't even find a candidate to run against him, because the Democrats have abandoned Texas voters. This is what the Democratic party did by neglecting local politics.
3
The government has always served Wall Street, which serves the plutocrats. Democracy, I fear, is over.
Even if cooler heads prevail in 2018, not much will change. This is truly terrifying.
2
Tax reform is now good as done. With the SALT deduction eliminated, NY, CT, NJ and CA taxpayers need to pressure local governments to trim the local taxes that to date have been subsidized by the Federal tax code (via deductions). Government has had both hands in the private sector's pocket for too long, so it is good to see some money returned to the people and businesses who earn the money in the first place. As Henry David Thoreau said "the best government is that which governs least" and with less money to waste, that will become the reality.
4
@ Richard
New Jersey subsidized by Federal tax code? New Jersey is 50th in return of Federal tax dollars. Show me your (not fake) source.
1
Now it will be even more difficult for the middle class to make it.
15
More Corporate Welfare and redistribution of wealth to the already rich?
Heck of a job, GOP.
75
The Republican members of Congress- most of whom are weak, greedy lackeys- infuriate and disgust me to the core of my being. We are kicking and squeezing the middle class all for the greed of corporations and the 1%. Anyone with a functioning brain knows that all of the supposed benefits of this bill will never come to pass- there will be no new investments, there will be no new hiring, there will be no raise in wages. The only thing that is guaranteed to happen is the increased financial power of corporations and oligarchs, all in the push for a permanent American aristocracy by the GOP. If this passes, the Koch brothers' holiday party will look like the orgy scene from the film Eyes Wide Shut.
Again, why are we cutting taxes? Why are we not investing in our nation's infrastructure? Why are we not funding education? If we are going to take $1.5 trillion out of our treasury, why not use it to some functional end instead of flushing it away into an offshore bank account? Why are we talking endlessly about taxes, and never about the other end of that equation- wages?
Ultimately, this tax bill is the beginning of a Republican attempt at a backdoor repeal of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Republicans will intentionally blow a massive hole in the deficit- with this tax bill- and then scream and cry about "entitlement spending" and the need to cut social programs. Republicans are creating the mess they will later cry about. These people are unconscionable.
208
Very good points. I wish you were in office.
“I‘m not to keen on automatic tax increases”, said a Senator about Corker’s idea of a clawback. But most of the cuts shared by the not rich expire in ten years and we get the tax increase. The entire premise that the cuts “only” raise the deficit $1.5 Triillion is premised on raising our taxes automatically ten years from now. How awful are these guys?
19
It's very disappointing that Susan Collins is optimistic about receiving any assurances from this president that he shares her concerns about shoring up health care markets. The president has done everything he could to do away with the ACA that millions of Americans need, and now suddenly he's supportive of legislation to stabilize Obamacare? Don't buy it, Senator Collins.
33
Senator Sherrod Brown (D., Ohio) had it exactly right: it's in the the Republican DNA to give money and advantage to the rich. That money will come from middle-class Floridians, among many others, who have relatively modest mortgages and property taxes (we do claim state and local tax deductions, despite being a "low tax" state). And most galling of all, the money will come from the US Treasury in the form of a 1.5 trillion dollar deficit. This whole "tax reform" (really welfare for the wealthy and large corporations) stinks to high heaven.
41
Tax laws are temporary.
Will we get an angry electorate to demand that the 1% pay it back, in spades? I hope so.
19
The Dems can not convince any of the remaining GOP-Trump supporters of anything. They belong to the Never-Vote-Dem tribe. The challenge for the Dems is to educate the 1/3 of citizens who do not vote to get off their duffs and vote for them. Picking up a bigger share of independents will help too but the other is needed to overcome the gerrymandering that was set up by the GOP.
1
It's a given that the economy is healthy and the Tax Cuts are unjustified. By a three to one margin on average, the citizens disapprove. So why is the Republican party pursuing the legislation with reckless abandon? The predominant opinion is robbery. I have another angle to share.
President Obama and the Democrats inherited the great recession upon which timer they legislated a stimulus funding package that not only saved us from a Depression, but grew the economy with the best indicator being the unemployment rate in which a high of over ten percent was whittled down to close to four percent where we are today at essentially full employment. They grew the economy through government spending.
The Republicans have always believed for whatever reasons that smaller government and tax cuts grew the economy. History proved otherwise.
Are the Republicans riding the Democrat Donkey of success? I think so.
Or is it just robbery and profit skimming?
9
A correction with my apologies; The average disapproval rate is three to two, not one. Sorry friends. I was still on the first coffee.
Deficits matter only when Democrats are in control.
85
Deficits matter only to whoever is not in power. Congress needs the same balanced budget requirement that most states have. They have proven that they will not do this themselves so we need to do it. The constitution gives us a way.
Next up for the GOP: destroy Medicare and Social Security.
Nirvana!
Thanks again Michigan, Pa., and Wisconsin, non-voters, third party nihilists, and Bernie babies.
The GOP couldn't do it without YOU.
143
Go easy on those of us who wanted Bernie. I voted for him in the primary but voted for HRC in the general election. Many of us did that. There was no way I would do anything or refrain from doing anything to stop DJT.
1
"Thanks again Michigan, Pa., and Wisconsin, non-voters, third party nihilists, and Bernie babies."
Alternately, thanks again for all those who insisted Hillary Clinton would be the stronger general election candidate when the polls consistently said the exact opposite. And thanks again to the Clinton campaign staff who consistently refused offers of help from the Sanders campaign folks. And thanks again for the strategists that were so certain Clinton would win those states easily that she didn't even bother to campaign there. She had one job, and failed to do it.
Also, those third-party nihilists probably helped rather than hurt Clinton, since more Republican-leaning folks voted for Gary Johnson than Democratic-leaning folks voted for Jill Stein.
Why should Bernie have rolled over for Hillary? This was just the sort of policy he'd warned about.
The Republican donors calling into their bought representatives and senators to obtain tax benefits ("Wealthfare") demonstrates both the impact of money in politics and the fact that unlimited money destroys democracy.
12
Tax cuts for the rich and tax increases for everybody else. What's wrong with that?
7
The elite Republican party is now totally aligned with the rich and corporate interests. They are fiscally irresponsible, willing to put the entire country at risk for short term gain. The needs of 300 million Americans are not considered.
This bill would create a spiral of debt and does absolutely nothing to address our long term fiscal or societal needs.
Many people who voted for Trump were upset about their lives being decimated by the loss of jobs, stagnant wages, inability to afford college, and lack of access to healthcare. This is a time when the government should be creating mechanisms to ensure more job opportunities, higher incomes, more (not less) social benefits for all, and investing in our infrastructure. Instead, Trump is decimating consumer, financial service and environmental protections. He is creating greater inequality, a ballooning debt, all the while doing nothing to help the country or ordinary Americans.
We are headed in exactly the wrong direction and over a cliff I am afraid. This is looking more and more like the 1920s: a big party for the rich, loosening regulations on Wall street, a government oblivious to warning signs and then a crash. We didn't have a mountain of federal debt at that time and could borrow to help us through the long depression.
14
Assuming it eventually passes and becomes law, the democrats should learn from their last debacle and instead of stressing obsessive identity politics policies, Wall Street bankers and wars they love, focus on things Americans want or don't want like ACA (want), the Trump tax robbery to the rich (don't want).
Every republican who votes for it should have a wanted poster placed outside their office saying, Wanted for legally robbing the tax payer of trillions of dollars to support corporations and billionaires. Bring this person to justice in Nov. by voting them out of office.
7
The GOP of today has 3 goals:
1. Support tax cuts for its Dear Leader Trump, the other rich, and large corporations;
2. Seek to deprive the poor of health care and raise their taxes to subsidize tax cuts for the wealthy; and
3. Criminalize abortion.
This bill explicitly accomplishes 1 and 2. 3 is coming folks.
23
I would modify #3 to be "officially install right wing ultra conservative Christianity as the national religion with appropriate penalties for non-followers".
"The Handmaid's Tale" sound familiar?
Where is the strident opposition from Democratic politicians?
We expect this kind of thing from the Republican party, but it's only with the complicity of Democratic politicians that this kind of loathsome bill can pass.
In this case, that complicity is passive, and it's a moral certainty that the Democratic party, long in bed with corporate wealth, hopes the GOP will do the dirty work of (and take the blame for) making the rich even more rich.
To fail to notice how thoroughly complicit Democrats have been over the past 25 years in all this is to again fall for the standard ruse, where the powerful get us to fight among ourselves, as if the color of the boot on our necks actually mattered.
Author Thomas Frank sensibly diagnosed (in What's the Matter with Kansas?) why red state voters voted against their interests. A couple of years back, in his latest book, Listen, Liberal, Frank went on to diagnose how blue state voters are similarly persuaded to vote against their interests.
Looking at another issue for evidence, we gave Democrats complete control over national government in 2009 and 2010, and they gave us... a right-wing health care plan.
Rooting for the political laundry, for the party these representatives of the wealthy nominally work under is exactly what those in power want us to keep doing. Let's stop and instead look at what is actually happening to us, and to our country.
4
I’m having a problem understanding how these senators were reassured by Trump’s comments about this tax bill. He has been known to fabricate for effect from time to time!
2
"Americans for Prosperity, the conservative group backed by Charles G. and David H. Koch, also blasted the idea, calling a trigger mechanism “antithetical to the principles of the unified tax framework” that lawmakers have proposed."
I'm sorry: I don't remember voting for Americans for Prosperity or Charles Koch or David Koch.
9
I never voted for JD in Arizona but I recognize his right to speak as a citizen and will consider his opinions.
If anyone votes for a Republican, at any level, they are voting for Americans for Prosperity (for the wealthy only) & the Koch agenda. ALEC, anyone?
You'd think Congress would have learned by now that passing a good bill is better than hastily passing the bill that you think is going to make you look good. But I won't hold my breath hoping for the GOP to put country first.
5
This is unbelievable. The American public needs to read Joseph Stiglitz to understand how the Republican plan to manage the economy really works. The GOP is made up of the 1% and their tax bill will siphon money from the poor/middle class up to the already incredibly wealthy 1%-ers. It is called "trickle UP economics". I can't believe there is not public outrage at this tax bill. Ignorance will not be bliss for 99% of Americans very soon.
11
Look at the list of the wealthiest people in the Senate and elsewhere in elected office and the tight bond between the Democratic leadership and Wall Street billionaires and then try to make the argument that the Democratic Party is not also the 1%. We are ruled by a bipartisan oligarchy and 90% of the partisan conflict is a show to keep the freckle neck massss duped. To you imagine for one minute that Chuck Schumer does not work for Wall Street?
And Chuck Schumer is voting Yea on the tax bill? Or has Schumer been voting Yea on the Trump tear-down-the-system-let-the-oligarchs-rule appointees?
I thought that if the cut was more than the budgeted $1.5 Trillion cut over ten years, it needed 60 votes in the Senate to pass. But it can’t pass without additional sweeteners, like the additional huge break for rich people getting their money through LLCs and S-corporations, which should put it over the limit, thereby requiring 8 Democrats to agree to the worst smash and grab in this country’s history, which isn’t going to happen. Hope I’m right.
5
Always interesting and galling to listen to Republicans and other tools of the Koch Brothers describing triggers as unacceptable tax increases. And so, what are we to do when the Republicans ram thru this unnecessary and cruel tax cut for the rich that will result in a massive recession, if not depression? Oh, that's right, cut Social Security and Medicare to avoid asking the greedy billionaires and even greedier corporations to return to the already low tax rates they enjoy today. If these buys want a return to an America dominated by a white Christian patriarchy, then let's return to the tax rates of that era as well....90% on anything over $1M. That rate, under Eisenhower, brought is a strong middle class, strong unions and the interstate highway system. This new tax cut brings us what exactly? Richer greedy billionaires? Who add exactly what value?
12
any Republican senator that votes for this massive attack on the middle class and claims to have a conscience show their real honest selves
like Trump they lie and they cannot be trusted
8
How can Senator Corker, who swore he would not vote for a bill that would add one penny to the deficit, vote for this bill?
6
Because he is like all the other falsely identified "honorable" Republicans who are no such thing - they almost invariably vote for these reprehensible measures because it is party/power over everything.
People with free health care for life and pensions and are required to work no more than 160 days a year with enormous travel budgets paid for by the taxpayers get to decide that the taxpayers should pay more to make sure Republican billionaire donors are happy with more tax cuts, more subsidies and enjoying the spectacle of poor, working class and middle class people dying for lack of health care, heat, clean water and air. The billioniaes want an end to education and social and economic mobility. Social cecurity and Medicare for which workers have paid for years and years will be raided to support more tax breaks for corporations. Look up this party that calls itself Christian and see the hypocrites of Mathew. Look upon the vandals who are destroying our country and its people.
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GOOGLE THIS "" the average tax paid by profitable american corporations in 2016 is ? the answer is 16.1 percent yes 16.1 percent, some a bit ,some bit less, the quoted 35 percent is a dishonest canard, no one pqyas 35 percent, 30 percent or even 25 percent, kindly wake up to this reality
11
The Senate is rushing this bill through before the growing masses of protestors become so great it will be a problem for Senators to vote yes.
But a "win" for the GOP's corporate and filthy rich donors today will guarantee complete disaster for the Republicans in the midterms.
6
I find it interesting how Senator Bob Corker, of Tennessee, who proclaims to be a "deficit hawk" and swore up and down that he would not vote for this tax bill ended up voting for it in committee. What a phony! Once again Corker demonstrates he is nothing but talk. I hope this tax reform bill bill passes the entire Congress and reaches President Trump's desk for his signature. Thankfully, Senator Corker will not be around after 2018 to continue his humiliation of the Volunteer State. Thank you.
5
This tax bill will be undone by next year because of the Democrats winning both chambers and Donald going to jail, along with Flynn and Jared. "Go ahead Mr. Governor, proceed."
5
Let it be so.
1
The tax bill is horrible. It steals from the poor and middle class and rewards the rich. It pours more money into corporate coffers that are already overflowing and provides a unearned windfall to so called "pass through" businesses such as super rich law firms and other professional partnerships.
The bill takes from the people in need and gives to the people and corporations who are already rich. It does nothing for the economy and will just make an already unequal society worse.
The American people must wake up to this swindle and punish the Republican perpetrators in the 2018 and 2020 elections.
10
Another cruel, duplicitous and greedy bill that will hurt the Poor, Working Class and Middle Class. Here's hoping that the American public finally starts to wake up in time for November 2018.
11
Oh the smell of victory--finally the Republicans see an end in view---and that end will be the midterm elections in 2018.
9
What hurdle? Do you mean governing the way our founding fathers intended?
1
You mean with only white males having rights under the Constitution?
Use common sense, "doctor."
2
So, we have to pray to the Lord that our hero John McCann puts this down.
Conservative Republicans can vote for this now, but Americans will vote against them in 2018. No one wants a tax increase. This bill is what Trump and the lobbyists want, not Americans. Conservative Republicans have never created any jobs through tax cuts. There is no trickle-down effect in this bill. There is only a trickle-up effect for the rich.
If it passes it will be another Donnie the Clown Show special. Yesterday's Donnie the Clown was historic with Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan on either end of a conference table with Donnie the Clown in the middle. They looked like fools. They were props.
If this bill passes, conservatives will look like fools to voters in 2018.
9
No tax bill should be allowed to pass until Trump shares his tax returns!
17
So Corker " I'm not voting for the bill if it raises the debt one penny" will vote for it if there is a trigger to raise taxes as a result of increases in the deficit Consider if there is an economic downturn, the deficit increases and the "trigger" raises taxes. This is a recipe for economic disaster.
Corker, Flake, Collins, McCain, et al. are Republicans who consistently place party above country -- no matter their protestations to the contrary. Ron Johnson? He wants tax cuts that will benefit him as does Trump. How many others in Congress will benefit from this legislation?
Once the tax cuts pass the R's will move to cut S.S., Medicaid, and Medicare to pay for the deficits in the plan. Trump was correct when he said of his $800 million tax avoidance scheme -" I'm smart" which means the rest of us are stupid.
16
This.
Despite all of their public protestations about Trump/Republican failures at every level, these Republican legislators almost invariably vote for every one of these despicable Republican bills. All Johnson wanted was to ensure that his company got as big a tax cut as could be gotten with this bill, he was never "fighting for the little guy" or his constituents - he couldn't care less about his constituents unless it is election time and then he tries desperately to picture himself as some sort of "small business" person.
November 2018 can't come soon enough.
15
Cutting the corporate rate to 25% would have been more palatable. Why is carried interest still allowed to be deferred by Private Equity managers? Simplifying the tax code is a good idea even if everyone's tax burden stays the same.
Reagan was able to work with a Democrat congress for the tax reform act of 1986. Where is bipartisanship now?
69
Trump said he does not need or want Democratic input or votes.
1
Mr Trump told them to take a hike yesterday in an early morning tweet. So much for bipartisanship.
1
Yes, Reagan did but it took 2 years of analysis, negotiation, and bipsartisanship to put it together not 1 month.
We make $140K combined which is solid middle class in MA. One of us is self employed so we also pay the self employment tax. Our taxes will increase by about $450/month under this plan. That is $450 that we will NOT be spending on clothing, dining out, vacations, and home improvements. A tax cut should be a cut for all, not just the poor and the rich. This will harm not just our household but the entire economy in that millions like us will also lose thousands in disposable income.
376
MA voted about 2 to 1 for Hillary. So now you get to pay the price. TRUMP's REVENGE!
1
Excellent point. If a tax cut is going to pay for itself (which I don’t believe, but for argument’s sake.....) then cut taxes on people who spend money. Because here is how those who benefit from this bill will spend their newfound income:
Corporations - Increase dividends and stock buybacks (benefit is to share owners)
Wealthy - Add to their investments (benefit again to share owners)
Low and middle class - Zip, zero, nada, nothing - actually, as you point out, you’ll be paying more, which hurts the economy.
Lesson learned - GOP donors are more important than constituents. Here’s hoping we all have a long memory.
2
It's yet another nail in the coffin of the middle class. Apparently our representatives want to kill the middle class.
2
While I am sure this increase to the deficit will pass, are there some Republican senators with some spine to vote against this terrible bill? What hypocrites, when Obama raises the deficit, what an outcry from them, but when they do it, it's OK. This bill is a disaster for the middle class and a bonanza for the rich like Trump. He'll be in good shape financially if this bill passes.
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The difference of course is the manner in which the deficit is raised: The Democrats tend to raise it through government spending on social programs while the Republicans raise it by lowering taxes and putting cash back in the hands of the people so that they can decide how to spend it.
1
How much are the people going to get back, pete?
What's the number? Where is the calculator as promised?
Honestly, are those few dollars you'll get back worth watching children and babies suffer without healthcare? Dirty air and water polluting the entire nation? Banks opening credit cards without their customers' knowledge and then slapping those customers with annual fees accordingly?
How will the twelve dollars in saved taxes fight those monstrosities?
I wonder if the Republican base understands that in feeding liberals to the wolves - because poking liberals in the eyes is all this is about - the base awaits that same fate.
5
...and putting cash back in the hands of the people.
People? What people? Don't you mean, under this bill, the corporations and a few wealthy people. Oh, wait, i am sorry, I forgot. Corporations are people. (Though LGBT are not).
4
What scares me the most and a lot about this travesty of a bill is not the increase in the deficit that it will produce. My greatest fear is that it will cement in place an oligarchy. This bill will greatly concentrate political power into the hands of those few who already run the place and solidify that power in perpetuity. Specifically, the elimination of the estate tax will seal our fate.
The super rich hold the reins of power. Now they can keep them from beyond the grave. Dynasties will be formed. A few families will rule the nation. A gilded age of enormous power will be installed.
This is what the Republicans have always wanted. They have pursued these goals for one hundred years. They have long since ceased to be the party of Lincoln.
With the stacked courts, the political process will be owned by the oligarchs. They will pull the strings of the politicians much more than they do now.
The oligarchs will pacify the masses by not regulating guns. That is their unholy bribe. Those that take the bribe will feel like their guns give them power and freedom. They will not. They will live the life of serfs. They will be subservient to those that throw them a few crumbs. Worst of all, they will cheer and be happy about it.
2018 may be the last chance to stop the encroaching serfdom. Once all the power is shifted, there may be no turning back. I have lost faith in our system because our society has lost the truth and reason and integrity.
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"They have pursued these goals for one hundred years." - Bruce - over 240 years actually. The Tories and royal loyalists of the revolutionary time with their ideas of birthright, class, and wealth have never gone away. They have continued to be part of this country and have gained enough strength to now try to restore the aristocracy and peasant classes.
The revolution. The idea of a country built on democracy with liberty and equality and freedom. Those were and remain all very liberal ideas. The conservatives, the Tories, want you to forgot that.
5
To expand on your point. In 1998 the top 10% owned 68% of American wealth. By 2016 the top 10% owned 76% of American wealth. An increase of 8% in a mere 16 years. If this trends continues unabated the top 10% will own pretty much all American wealth in fifty years time.
Eliminating the estate tax will only hasten this trend and concentrate the wealth into the top 1% and top .01%. And it is very possible that someone living today will see a time when the richest 400 families in American own it all, control it all, and the rest of the population watches and serves.
5
My only source of hope is the fact that we, the American people, gave Barak Obama, one of the most scandal free, decent, intelligent and deliberative presidents in recent history, a full two terms. We are the same people. Therefore we can throw the bums out.
9
I hope they get this bill passed before Christmas so the billionaires and rich corporations can celebrate the holiday in style.
42
It seems it is high time to re-write those liberal fairy tales too.
"How the Grinch Stole Christmas". It was great where the Grinch came in the night and took everything, leaving the people with nothing. Rip out the snowflake ending when he gets a bleeding liberal heart, too funny, and you've got the perfect Christmas tale for our times. Lets remind people of their place before they get any ideas.
"A Christmas Carol". Scrooge and Marley, now they knew how to treat employees and their customers! Remove the ridiculous "mankind was my business" stuff, set the ghosts on Bob Cratchit for disrespecting his master so that he learns his lesson and avoids the poorhouse or debtors prisons (an idea we really need to bring back) and of course without healthcare Tiny Tim won't survive till the end, but that's the kind of story that will put fear in peasant's hearts at Christmas where it belongs not the good rich people.
1
“I think we’re going to get it passed,” he said later at the White House. “It’s going to have lots of adjustments before it ends, but the end result will be a very, very massive — the largest in the history of our country — tax cut.”
Why is it so important to this egotistical president that this legislation be the largest ever tax cut in America's history? Why if it also turns out to be the worst, the most devastating, and the end of the middle class as it's currently construed?
Cutting taxes for corporations and the wealthiest Americans on the backs of the middle class is probably the most obscene tax "reform" idea every conceived in a US Congress.
Many in the middle live paycheck to paycheck, have chronic medical expenses, live in high-tax states where residents consider taxes the price of a good education system and investments in infrastructure.
Now they get thrown under the bus, to reward the Koch brothers who're already complaining about a "tax trigger" if the economy doesn't boom?
Everything about the Senate bill is an insult to middle income America: it's still complex (7 rates, not 3); it's punitive towards coastal states; it's based on fantasy economics most economists predict will result in recession; it will raise healthcare costs for many; and it will trigger steep reductions in entitlement programs Americans have paid into for years.
Thanks, Republicans, for insisting your donors are more important than your constituents.
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Why should the Republicans act any differently when they keep getting elected?
7
@Curious: well, you got me there! Maybe because "there's a sucker born every minute?" Or that anger and cultural fights seem more important than their paychecks?
After all, it's the Republican base, not their donors, who keep voting them in despite the overarching abundance of evidence that their pocketbooks suffer more under GOP rule.
8
And it removes critical infrastructure from the health care law!
8