It is the GOP Republican Party Senate's majority turn to "elephant" stomp the 99.9%.
Next time it will be the Democratic Party Senate's majority turn to "donkey" kick the 99.9%.
Meanwhile the Clinton and Obama families are tens of millions of dollars and counting into the funds "earned" from their public "service."
1
Despicable.
1
Republicans aren't "simplifying" the tax code, they are trading deductions that homeowners, students, chronically ill, the elderly, and people who live in high tax states need and use for deductions that the 1% and corporations want. This is the biggest sham being ramrodded through with no public discourse or Democratic input... the American people are being sucker punched!
2
I read much desperation here and almost no support for the "tax plan." Yet how many are calling/writing their elected officials?
I would like to believe and I sincerely hope there is a responsible Republican economist somewhere who, if not willing to speak out publicly, will at least contact "concerned" Repulican senators and tell them the truth about this tax bill and how it will hurt the vast majority of the American people. All Republicans can't be shills for the rich and powerful. Can they?
1
Just want to note that the editorial used the GOP assertion that the corporate tax rate is 35% and is too high. It is more accurate to cite the effective tax rate which corporations actually. That is 18% -- even below the proposed rate change. With a nominal rate of 20%, i imagine the effective date would be even lolower. Many large corporations have been found to pay 0%. The best part is that corporations get to keep their loopholes! So much for tax cuts for the middle class.
2
The CBO is a true, professional, non-partisan institution. For Holt to cast aspersions on their professional analysis, which identifies the bill as 'partisan' and 'inaccurate', is par for the course these days of Trump's Orwellian double speak where up is down, right is wrong, and mutually contradictory beliefs have seized the zeitgeist.
4
The larger question for most GOP Senators on this Tax bill should be to consider before their vote : If the continuing budget deficit of $19 trillion the U. S. has at this time , another new $1.5 trillion deficit will not be a huge mistake to add ? Here is what Speaker Ryan noted in 2010, interview with Fortune magazine : The nation was "sleep-walking toward a debt crisis," and he foresaw calamity on a grand scale. "Within a few years a sale of government bonds will fail," he said. "The capital markets will go crazy, and the Fed and Treasury will run to Capitol Hill demanding a giant bailout." . What do you think ?
If this tax bill becomes law, it will be reversed as soon as the Democrats regain power - an event that will be hastened by its enactment. Every cloud has a silver lining.
1
SOS SOS MAYDAY MAYDAY The US ship of state is threatened with being sunk. Without prompt action, all that will be left to do to put the US in the same company of places like North Korea, Iran and Saudi Arabia, will be to engage in activities that closely resemble rearranging deck chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
1
If passage of this bill is inevitable then let’s prepare for the aftermath. Let’s prepare alternatives to satisfy those that will undoubtedly be harmed by the new tax rules. Alternative candidates with corrective solutions to the tax and healthcare issues should be found and then put forward. Democracy is hard work. Let’s get to it.
2
How can,politics, an activity designed to obtain,use, and maintain power NOT BECOME ,inevitably, endemic institutionalized opportunistic corruption.........Any analysis of most bills passed by congress......shows corporate lobbyists and lawyers designing and authoring most legislation.......not the legislators themselves working for those who elected them as their proxy representatives !
The American legislature can pass any "bad bill" that they can get away with.......if theres little publicity,debate,or even knowledge of content by the public or even the lawmakers themselves !
1
Really, "the lowlifes are on social security", George Baldwin? To pick one of your doubtful categories. Most Americans 65 or older are lowlifes because they get social security? That is a despicable lie.
But, you are right about the middle class being in for rough times.
4
Terms limits. Would now be a good time to restart this conversation?
2
I have hung an Adbusters flag in my high school classroom for the last 16 years. Things got worse with Citizen's United. When this passes, it will get worse still. If I get an American flag for my room, I will be hanging it upside down as a sign of distress.
1
Any lazy politician with fingerprints all over this “Tax Cut” bill, in lieu of what we expected, REAL Tax Reform, has been wasting our time
and needs to be voted OUT.
Hear ye, hear ye! Our friends the Republicans are hosting one last gala party on the deck of the Titanic. And you're invited! Well, you're invited if you had the foresight to buy a first class ticket. Otherwise, there's a line forming along the starboard gangway and if you stand in it long enough, you might get a peek. No promises, mind you.
This tax bill is deplorable in so many ways. Wealth inequality is something our government should be trying to alleviate, not exacerbate. Furthermore, we have seen record storms and fires ravage our country's communities and infrastructure due to global warming. It takes lots of money to prepare and to respond to those disasters and to reduce carbon in our atmosphere. That is a basic security function of government. But instead? Let's funnel even more money away from public coffers into the pockets of super rich families, banks and corporations for them to use at will to corrupt our courts and elected officials to do even more of their selfish bidding. Let's permit rich religious organizations to push their theocratic agenda. Let's make health care less affordable and our schools worse, thereby creating a climate of severe political instability. And for what exactly?
70% of single wage earners in America make less than $52k per year. 50% make less than $30k. Most people have nothing but Social Security to retire on and can't even come up with $400 in case of an emergency. This has been true for many years, and it will stay true as long as long as we continue to permit our government to pursue a destructive path that rewards wealth and punishes work.
5
The writer states, "Forgotten in this deal-making are the millions of poor and middle-class families whose tax and health insurance premiums would rise under the Senate bill."
I disagree. Poor and middle-class families were not "forgotten". In today's GOP, they simply do not matter.
7
If this bill passes, it will be time for California and New York to pursue a political nuclear option, and withhold tax money from the Federal government. The elimination of the SALT deduction, and possible elimination of the property tax deduction, are clearly aimed to harm those states and a few others. If this goes through, property values will plummet as there will be less incentive to own a home. The provision to tax tuition remission as income, and to eliminate the student loan interest deduction, will also harm the higher education sector which is (surprise!) a key employer in those relatively prosperous, high-education-level states. If the Federal government is going to effectively declare war on us, it is time for us to rebel. Call their bluff -- because the very states they are trying to nail are the ones whose strong economies prop up the useless Republican southern states that get more in benefits than they pay in.
6
"As a result, up to 13 million could lose coverage, and premiums would rise 10 percent a year for the next 10 years, the C.B.O. says. Senator Susan Collins of Maine has correctly noted that any temporary tax cuts for the middle class would be more than offset by the higher cost of health insurance — a good reason for her to vote against the bill."
GOP-Trump supporters are demonstrating the adage that "Some people can be fooled ALL of the time".
America , you are screwed. You have elected , sort of , a mentally ill conman as your president and he is bein abetted by the vile GOP who are owned by their donors. It has been estimated that the Trump family will benefit to the tune of $1 billion by this bill.
How many decades of Democratic leadership will it take to repair the damage done so far by the GOP-Trump combine. If they get to start another war for Israel
, this time with Iran they will greatly outdo even Bush II.
3
While critics of the Republican bills correctly call it war on the middle class, a more accurate critique would be to call it war on wage earners. Middle-class households that do not primarily live on wages or pensions but rather derive their income from dividends, profits or inheritances will come out ahead. Likewise, those whose very high incomes come solely from wages will do worse. It is likely that many of those who now are paid salaries will try to reorganize themselves so that their salaries are now pass-through business income, which is to be taxed at a much lower rate than wages, salaries or pensions.
As was seen in Kansas, where the rate paid by pass-through entities was reduced so that it was advantageous for those collecting salaries to reorganize themselves into pass-through entities, many highly paid individuals did so. Bill Self, the state's highest paid employee, does not pay state income tax on millions he earns as the University's men's basketball coach since he uses a Limited Liability Corporation to be compensated for his services rather than a salary.
Whether it is labeled a war on the middle class or a war on wage earners, it will be a mostly a massive shift of the tax burden from the wealthy and on to everyone else. Shifting the tax burden away from the rich and onto the middle class will eventually reduce economic growth. The question is how much harm will be done by the tax bill and how long it will take .."
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127862
1
In debating with myself over paying higher taxes vs seeing the Republican party utterly destroyed in 2018, witnessing the end of the feckless, destructive GOP finally won out. Passage of this monstrosity of a tax bill should flip both the Senate and the Congress to the Dems in 2018, resulting in lots of bad people going to jail, as well as the end of the Trump agenda -- and, hopefully, Trump resigning. A big financial price for me to pay -- but well worth it.
3
At this point of the "negotiations," Republicans know they have the votes and now everyone of them is trying to cram in more "stocking stuffers" and sugar plums for business interests and cronies in their home districts and states, which favors will be returned to them not just in campaign donations but in jobs and business for their relatives, real estate sweet deals, stock tips, loans and all sorts of pay for play. They know they the few crumbs they're tossing middle-income workers will blind voters to their self-dealing and crony capitalism.
1
This is what you can do if you don’t like the tax bill: call all the offices of Senators Flake, Corker,Collins McCain and any other Senator on the fence and leave a message expressing your opposition. If you get a live person on line give him/her detailed reasons for your opposition. If their lines are tied up by people opposed to the
Legislation they might buckle. Griping is easy and fun but it is ineffective.
3
I fear this is a done deal. No amount of calling my senators will change their votes. I've called and emailed, signed petitions and everything else I can think of, but they simply don't care about what will happen to the average folks in SC. All their attention is focused on making donors and the wealthy happy. Sadly, they are probably right that voters in this bright red state will vote for them again, no matter what they do to hurt their own base.
5
The majority of Americans didn't have their vote counted. The majority of Americans did like Trump Care. It almost passed.
The majority of Americans aren't even privy to the tax plan and what they heard, they didn't like and yet they're still trying to cram it down in under a week.
Since they clearly don't work for us, let's start taking long lenses to who is really legislating our country. Have they broken any laws, who invests with them?
Also, I wouldn't count on a moment of moral clarity from the GOP. They need to vote yes to appease the donor and the donors will hook them up when they leave.
1
The USA abandoning democracy for plutocracy.
2
I think you mean abandoning Democracy for Kleptocracy...
4
That too, Patsh.
See the effects on healthcare, including Medicare because of the sequester:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/29/16712430/senate-tax-b...
2
Can we please pass a law stipulating that the representatives who pass this despicable legislation will not be allowed to personally profit from it.
2
Duh!
"Senator Johnson has an estimated net worth of $36.6 M as of 2014, making him one of the wealthiest members of Congress and the richest among all members from Wisconsin."
Source - http://members-of-congress.insidegov.com/l/439/Ron-Johnson
3
Selfishness is Rule Number One - you'll rarely go wrong misunderestimating human greed and selfishness
humans have a tremendous capacity to rationalise criminal greed as 'helping others' - I 'need' to steal this loaf of bread to feed my children - I 'need' to give a tax cut to billionaires (even if I'm not one) in order to keep my job for another six months - and hey they told me it would 'create jobs' (for their offshore tax haven accountants maybe)
with the rise of the wall of internet communications - I only 'like' people who 'like' me - we can happily ignore anyone 'not like us' - as just terrible and not deserving to live - hey drone strikes seem to work - next - coming to a neighbour near you ? - cool - until they come for you ...
1
This is abominable. How do Republican Senators and Representatives sleep at night? They have no problem lying to their constituents and themselves. They really believe their own lies.
3
The subject line on my NYT Opinion newsletter this morning - Lambs of the Senate.
It should have read - Lambs to the Slaughter.
2018. 2020.
2
"About 70 percent of all pass-through income goes to people in the top 1 percent of Americans who receive any income whatsoever."
Not something the US Treasury tracks, and since Tax forms are not public record seems a little nefarious, at best.
Fake news?????
Actually, "Office of Tax Analysis Working Paper 104 October 2015" from the U.S. Treasury states that "Overall, 69% of pass-through income earned by individuals accrues to the top-1%." It was pretty easy to find. A couple minutes of research. Or just say "Fake News". Whichever is easier, I guess.
9
Held hostage by fat-cat donors, Republicans will pay the ransom with our livelihoods. America doesn't negotiate with terrorists, but apparently the
GOP does.
4
Why limit the discrimination of taxing tuition waivers to graduate students? If this is such a brilliant idea, let Congress tax the tuition waivers provided to student athletes, such as college football and basketball players.
3
Anyone paying attention last year knew that we elected a Kleptocracy. The recent image of Paul Ryan grinning from ear to ear and proclaiming a victory for the middle class earlier this month, after passing their version of a tax bill in the House, will live with me for a lifetime. This is a horrible bill for the middle class on multiple levels and with frightening ripple effects on housing, health and education. Ryan is able to say up is down even better than Trump, and grin while he does it.
6
A basic knowledge of history both in the US and Europe has repeatedly indicated how extremism of money/power plays itself out over the last one hundred and fifty years. It is profoundly sad that our larger society cannot see the writing on the wall. I grieve for the lost work and sacrifices of those who came before us who so much tried to avoid the loss of our democracy and preserve its future.
6
What we are witnessing now is the boundless, systematic, and unrestricted looting of our nation's sovereign wealth.
9
We disagree on whether the money is earned by the people or the government, I suppose. The people set up the government and retain the right to change, replace, or fund what they need to gov't to do.
We have let vote-buying with tax completely dominate government activity for so long the original intent of the Founders has been abandoned.
This process is disgraceful. No public hearings?
2
The reason Republicans in Congress can get away with this is because few of their voters pay taxes, so most don't care about the consequences of this trainwreck.
The lowlifes are on Social Security, Disability, Unemployment or Welfare; and the Corporations and 1% ers don't pay any taxes whatsoever.
Like the proverbial Frog in the Kettle, Middle Class Republican voters won't realize what hit them until a few years from now, when their Social Security and Medicare get slashed to shrink the deficit.
Or maybe they really DO prefer shouting "Lock Her Up" then committing personal financial suicide in the voting booth.
2
Social security, disability and unemployment do indeed get taxed—under a somewhat different formula than ordinary income. People actually receiving those incomes are “lowlifes” but those who depend on the future existence of those income streams are “Republican middle class” voters? Wow!
2
Any pretense of GOP caring for actual American human beings was demolished with their dishonest, cruel "health care" bill. So no one should be in the least surprised by this obscenity.
This is a tax bill of, by and for the wealthy, and it will deeply damage everyone else and our society at large. Republicans themselves aren't even making much effort to pretend otherwise!
We let the worst of the worst get control of the entire government. What did you all expect?
3
Seriously? The Times confronts the Republicans with "a choice" between following the orders of their paymasters or shafting the middle class again, and you actually mistake that for some stern moral imperative that compels their agreement? They'll give that all the weight they gave it when the choice was before them under Reagan and Bush and Bush and Obama and Trump: none.
Face it. You are bystanders.
2
This feeds right into the GOP construct, and I bet the Trump voters will eat this up. I can’t remember a tax cut that didn’t baloon the deficit. But you know, that was like in the past!
The amount of supplication currently going in in DC has had a hidden side benefit for me: I’m learning languages I might need when I’m forced to repatriate to a slightly less insane part of the world.
And down we go..
1
The plural of anecdote is not data, but I feel compelled to offer my example. My wife and I are educated professionals living in New York City. We both come from lower middle class backgrounds, and made earned our degrees (undergraduate and professional) through a combination of scholarships, student loans and earnings/savings from jobs. We paid ourselves, in other words, and were not paid for by family.
As a result, we have lived frugally for the last ten years. We used public transportation until we absolutely needed a car--at which point we bought a 10-year-old used car--endured long commutes to economize on rent, delayed marriage, delayed parenthood, worked jobs we didn't necessarily want because our finances dictated it. After eight years of this, we had paid down our student loans, saved up a down-payment and put ourselves on solid financial footing to start a family. We bought a home last year. We had a child.
As we have been frugal and cautious in the past, we will have to assume the worst: that we will live under this bill for the foreseeable future. If this bill passes, we will have to sell our home. We may be unable to plan for our daughter's early education, with the uncertainty hanging over us. We will, in short, be sucker punched for having played by the rules and have our fingers kicked off the ledge of the middle class that we have been pulling ourselves up to. I know several young families in almost the same situation.
This bill is an obscenity.
11
It is looking like the Republicans will ram this bill through the legislative process without the benefit of the regular order process it deserves in a bald attempt to deliver a huge win for a donor class that doesn't even need it. It will be at the expense of the middle class and the poorest among us. The supposed economic upside that will follow from corporate America in increased wages and domestic investment will not occur and we will all be left with a growing national debt and no resources for much needed government programs. This lack of conscience and vision for where we need to head as a country is indeed sad.
4
FYI: a 10% increase in insurance premiums is nothing. I don't have insurance. I pay a penalty every year because Hillary Clinton wanted to show good will to the insurers with the idea that this would keep their premiums reasonable. Instead, the insurers took every cherry --- then jacked up their rates, took over smaller competitors to lock in a market. Obama and the Democrats did nothing to challenge this monopolization.
A 10% increase on the $500/month premiums I was offered for 'ghetto' insurance that I was offered under the ACA is only $50. Obviously, that's nothing.
Otherwise, I agree with everything that is written here.
Didn't we already see the disastrous effects of similar tax and economic policy over the past 16 years? First, the Bush tax cuts of 2001 that paved the way for the economic meltdown of 2008 and ballooned our national debt. Then, more recently the tax cuts in Kansas that were touted as an application of the ultimate GOP economic policy which would "pay for itself" and bring economic prosperity to the state. All it did was bring rivers of red ink and cutting back of vital services. Why are Repiblicans trying to sell us a tax policy that they know doesn't work?
7
Seems to me we should just cut corporate taxes to 0%. At the same time we should (1) define corporate profit to be 'sales minus (labor cost plus materials)'. That would eliminate all the costs corporations use to hide profit. As we simplify definitions we should (2) require corporations to track shareholder names, share buy and sell date & time then notify shareholders (and the IRS) by April 1st what corporate profit was their individual share. That profit would them be taxable in the following year as ordinary income.
There is lots of details that would need to be addressed, what if the shares were held in broker or fund names, how to deal with pension or mutual funds, etc. Basically follow the same rule; if you receive notice of earned corporate profit then within 30 days notify the true owner and the IRS of follow on distributions.
In total this would serve to make corporations responsive to shareholders, eliminate the pseudo advantages of hiding money in tax havens, add a tax on micro-trading since all ownership periods would have to be rounded up to some useful duration, for example, say one second.
1
This tax bill is designed with one goal; to destroy Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, Period!
As of today, there is little hope that this legislation will be stopped and that with its passage, we will begin the slow disintegration of our democracy. The GOP's loyalty is to 300 rich families who donate to the party coffers.
75 to 80% of the wealth of this country is concentrated in just about (I think) 300 or so very wealthy families whose only goal is to get richer, at the expense of the rest of this county and it citizens.
The GOP has always wanted to shrink government, dismantle financial and safety regulations in the name of protecting citizens from "big government"! As stated above, the real reason is the dismantling of the New Deal and the Great Society. They now have the power to do all of this and a president who only needs to be flattered in order to sign this legislation into law.
I don't know, if the Dems win a majority in both houses in 2018 that that will solve the destruction the GOP has done, and roll back the destruction of our democracy because they may be beholden to other big donor groups with just as much cancerous interest in making money over benefiting the citizens of this country.
Virginia was interesting in who got elected, common people with common ideas for all, not just the few rich. Wonder if this movement is strong enough to overtake both houses of Congress in 2018. For our democracy to survive, I hope so!!
11
This is a great tax bill as it will hurt Trumps base. Until these people see how they were taken advantage they will continue to support him and others.
Once the bases feels the pain and the lies they were told a turnaround will be in the making. We all know that Trump is a terrible President he just has not yet crossed the line-he gets close-but not close enough. It will happen-just wait
2
I hope you are correct about this but I doubt it. For this terrible tax bill to turn off his base would presume that it is economic troubles that motivate them and not the racism and bigotry that he throws to the crowds like so much raw meat.
4
The important thing to understand about Donald J. Trump is that he is an exemplary Republican. When some Republicans first observed his antics during the election they recoiled in horror; others felt he was exactly what was needed. The consensus was, “We need a Republican in the White House so if this is it, this is it”.
After the election, time went by and Republicans got comfortable with Trump. “He has a few rough edges, but his heart is in the right place”, was how they regarded him, and closed ranks to defend him. “All those investigations are just partisan nonsense”, they said, and went through the motions without intention.
They wanted lower taxes and less regulation, less enforcement, and that’s what Trump wants, too. He’s never been a fan of paying for anything, least of all taxes, he doesn’t like being told what to do, and he dares you to try and make him do it. “Get out of the way and let him make things happen for us”, the Republicans said to themselves.
Trump has the soul of a Republican, he just broadcasts it at high volume. He is self- interest personified; “What’s good for me is good and its what I want!”, he says. Isn’t that what all the Republicans say, in so many words? Their program is self-interest, whether you dress it up as ‘enlightened’, or ‘kinder, gentler’, or just raw Trump. It’s all the same thing.
5
We can fix this in 2018, nothing would send a message more to the Republican establishment than voting them out of a job. Register and vote.
10
We can start. But it will take a sustained effort--something the left hasn't had since the Roosevelt/Truman administrations. You're going to need a good decade with Democratic control of the White House, House and Senate and have sufficient majorities in the Senate to reverse this disastrous tax policy and actually raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy by eliminating deductions and tax credits; while restoring the tax breaks for middle class families.
It'll be a long hard slog to shore up entitlements, re-invest in R&D, etc. The left will need patience and to think strategically--not just reacting when someone says something we don't like. The left hasn't shown itself capable of either.
2
No wonder Trump doesn’t bother with the presidential salary . . .its peanuts compared to what he’ll bring home with this so-called tax reform. We knew garnering a position in Congress was lucrative, but this businessman prez sure knows how to line his nest.....with our tax dollars.
6
If you believe that Drumpf is not going to take his full salary..., I have a bridge in New York to sell you. He's lied about everything else. Not taking the salary was also a big lie!
1
The 1% should consider a route by JF k:
' If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich...'
8
It's hard to know where to begin. Does Congress have no shame? Do the representatives of the Christian right ignore the very Scripture that they claim is infallible and self righteously claim to follow? Maybe they should be reminded of Matthew 25: ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 . . .‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ I don't believe there is anything in Matthew 25 about lining the pockets of the billionaires and the millionaires.
6
Anyone can see that a fat cat can't fit through the eye of an average needle.
2
When is the revolution going to start?
Where do I apply to be Robespierre?
4
Is there anyone who is surprised by this?
2
Eugenics 101 is the name of this tax bill. guarantees the slow costly death of millions over time. Kill them that is the way to balance the budget as the dead do not need health care or educational services. THIS beats anything conjured in Gogol's DEAD SOULS
3
You obviously don't know what eugenics is because it focuses on the beginnings of life: genetic compatibility, prenatal care, environmental factors, educational considerations, etc. that contribute to a lifespan relatively untroubled by disease.
1
"Nowhere is the power of Sauron revealed more clearly than in the divisions between those who oppose him..." Gandalf.
2
You might consider reading Websters dictionary clear definition, in which the concept of eugenics in breeding out or eliminating those with traits that are undesirable. Spencer's SOCIAL DARIWNISM includes that concept. It focuses 'not on the beginning of life, but making sure that traits are bread out of the human development chain.
1
Excellent essay about an egregiously greed clique in power, a group of people who now have garnered enough money do to exactly as they please. The cycle of history may well--tragically--turn again, but they're grabbing for what they can get in the meantime. Sure, they know what they're doing, but will they keep what they get? History says "no," but then we'll all suffer in the process anyway--I, too, if I live long enough!
3
The moment I turned 17, I went down to my Navy recruiter and signed up. I love my country and wanted to serve, and did. Now I'm 60 years older, in one-day-at-a-time health, dependent on both Medicare and Social Security, and I see the country I still love is going down the drain. The people--some of them, at least--have elected a man who is patently unfit to be president, and the Congress is in thrall with big-money donors. In the meantime, the country's debt has soared to unprecedented levels, our national infrastructure is falling apart, and our stature in the world is taking on the aura of a banana republic. And as a cherry on top, the country runs out of money in less than 2 weeks, while Congress debates taxes? Franz Kafka could not have dreamed up this plot. Weep, America: I am.
19
Before we know it we are going to end with no Social Security, no Medicare, no Medicaid. We are going to wake up back in the 1960's but with 2018 prices. Few days ago there was an article about how well hospitals in the Denver area are doing. All of the hospitals with the exception of Denver Health which is run by the City are profitable. One of them has a 44.1% profit margin!
How is the need for corporate tax cuts justified? Small businesses are bleeding money and resources as they cannot compete with franchises and monopolies. There is a big drop in creating new small businesses. The small business owner is the one that creates real jobs, not large corporation who do not want to hire more people as there is no need for this.
Everybody is gone mad and dumb, but soon we are going to go broke just because we allowed most of our elected officials to dupe us and let corporations steal our money and livelihood. It is our friends, neighbors and extended family members who put these politicians in power and allowed Trump to enter the White House. The ship is going down with all hands on board and there are two life boats with no food and water in them, in the middle of the ocean that might eventually provide shelter for the 1%, but there is no Coast Guard to save them.
7
You are right: there's no compromise. They know they care about their donors more than the middle class...no contest.
2
Ron Johnson is one of my senators, but you'd never know it given his stance on this tax legislation. Wisconsin is not on one of the coasts (unless you count Lakes Michigan and Superior) but it is a high-tax state. By my calculations losing the deductibility of state and local taxes and property taxes (also relatively high in Wisconsin) will cost my wife and me roughly $5,000 a year (25% of the additional $20,000 we'll have to report as taxable "income" under the Senate bill). I haven't heard Mr. Johnson say a word about this. Instead, he's worried about business owners like himself not getting as many goodies as the Koch brothers. I guess I should have given him a couple hundred thousand toward his 2016 re-election campaign.
11
You won't have to pay taxes after you have to give up your job(s) to home-skule your kids.
2
Never EVER again should a Republican candidate for any office be able to claim they are the party of fiscal responsibility. Never.
RESIST!!
14
You could call them the Party of Fiscal Abrogation, because they have handed what fiscal policy is supposed to do over to the Federal Reserve Bank to perform with monetary policy.
1
This bill is a DISGRACE. Shame on any Senator that votes for it. They care more about scoring a win for Trump, and pleasing their donors, than the good of our country. Our democracy is utterly broken.
5
We, the People, have power! We can flood the congressional offices of each and every Republican with emails and calls! Got to Twitter and follow all the GOP senators and tweet #NoTrumpTaxCuts !
Only the very wealthy, want this bill to pass. Majority of Americans are opposed!
Remember that the Republicans only care about the 1% in 2018!!
2
Remember that no politician in the US is really moved by anyone outside the district or state they represent, and there is no office whatsoever with a popular national constituency.
2
Gee that's not true in the Menendez case. The doctor he helped didn't even live in New Jersey.
The problem I am having is that with all of the CBO scoring and other statistical analysis all pointing to this being a terrible bill for the majority of Americans and future generations, 50 republicans are most likely going to vote for it. All to make sure they have enough money in their coffers to get re-elected in the next cycle. I feel like I have fallen into a rabbit hole. This is insane.
7
Acting on the slightly masochistic impulse to discover what arguments are being put forth in favor of this bill, I went to the Fox News website. I scrolled through, looking for articles about tax reform. I found none, so I used a specified search, which yielded two video clips: one of Sarah Sanders expressing confidence that it would pass, and another of another official suggesting it still could (technically fail). What I could not find anywhere on that website was anything that dove deeply into the actual benefits of the bill. I did, however, find six separate stories about Matt Lauer, and another about Gerrison Keillor. All well and good - report those stories. But why not offer editorials in favor of the tax bill?
(ed. note: this question is rhetorical)
7
Why hasn't a single Senator been asked point-blank on a sustained news interview or press conference:
"Why have you soddenly reversed yourself 180 degrees on taxes and deficits? You've argued deficits are "evil" but now you don't even bother to discuss them... Can you explain?
How can they be allowed to govern with Tweets, press releases, and (dishonest) PR announcements?
3
All this stuff overtaxes the American attention span and takes up too much time between commercials.
No Steve it's because they haven't a clue that's why. They are so far removed from reality that they only see dollar signs and the wants and needs of their top donors they have forgotten about their constituents.
I disagree - many republicans are asked repeatedly about their views on the deficit but they lie and say how the massive growth unleashed by this tax bill will more than pay for it.
This is an awful proposal from Hillary! Oh wait,...
1
No business can survive without customers.
Increasing taxes will reduce consumer spending by an amount comparable to the tax hike.
For an economy driven by consumer spending, this will put the brakes on whatever recovery we have seen since 2008.
This (voodoo economics) is what republicans have been offering America for decades. Now they have the opportunity to deliver.
Expect higher taxes, lower employment, and reduced government services. Think Kansas writ large.
8
Trump will butter you up and sell you guns on the installment plan.
1
The GOP and Trump are taking care of themselves reflecting their greedy natures and contempt for the middle class . With 50 votes these self serving con artists are saving their political careers on the backs of the middle class despite a short lived benefit that is a gimmick. Trump has demonstrated his new Trump University has 300 million new victims while the GOP ignores his vile and nasty tweets that inflame hate and cause violence around the world. This GOP regime will lead to the downfall of American moral leadership and sink to the level of Judge Moore and Don the Con bully lying huckster.
4
In the end it is so simple. What have republicans and paul ryan wanted to do for ever. Destroy, medicare. social security, medicaid, the social safety net. They have always hated it. This tax bill will do that because it will fail to do what they say and cause an increase in the deficit. Then the so call republican fiscal hawks will return to say they have no choice but to end these programs to keep their corporate tax cuts. People will die, they don't care.
One more thing. What do you think the republicans would do if democrats and a democratic President ever tried to pass a law by the "reconciliation" process. Think people about what is going on here. We are being destroyed by this party and their no class president.
9
It's like Ryan can't admit to all the fat cats he hobnobs with now that Social Security survivor benefits got him over the rockiest patch in his life.
3
If the majority of the American people oppose this bill, and 100% of the Republican Senators are voting for it, what does that say about representative government?
10
The Fix is in. We're working on the US version of Downton Abbey, where the aristocracy control the wealth generated from the labor of people too financially uneducated to understand how it all is extracted from their work.
As long as the "people" get their Fox Channel on their big screens and lots of FDA - newly-approved fast food, the coup will be successful. Give 'em bread and circuses, work that fascist government methodology, and America will be great again - for the children. Trump's children.
1
The Republicans are offering all sorts of things to get those on the fence to vote for the bill, including opening up drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to persuade Senator Murkowski to vote for the bill. Legislation passed by the Senate Energy and National Resources Committee, which Murkowski chairs, passed legislation earlier this month to open up the ANWR to drilling. This legislation is now attached to the Republican tax reform plan. It remains to be seen if she will vote for the bill, which includes the repeal of the individual health care mandate, which she voted against with McCain, and Collins.
1
We are being sold down the river by greedy men who should be working for us, not the rich few. While DT hallucinates and tweets away at the world isolating us from our allies, they make a HUGE money grab at the expense of the rest of us. They should be ashamed and will go down in history as the enablers of the destruction of the greatest Democracy ever. I would love to be in line with Mitch McConnell and the likes of him at the pearly gates when my time comes. I want to see the look on their faces when they get tossed into the hole. We might all get the chance if we let DT keep insulting the rest of the world and we get attacked by a foreign country because he couldn't stop himself from insulting everyone in his path to feed his very frail and very sick ego. Our allies will not defend us. We are alone because of him and the leadership who enables him. VOTE VOTE VOTE
9
Now is the time to renew demands for release of Trump's tax returns. Let the public see exactly how this bill, if it became law, would affect him and his kind. The overall impact of changes in tax law may be too complicated and too contested to get much attention. But the specifics of how this would work for Trump might help most people understand that the Republicans are not interested in helping ordinary workers.
5
We had an election. Across the country the Republicans we're elected to the House and Senate. They kept their majorities in spite of Democratic promises to retake the Senate due to voter outrage over the refusal to consider Garland for the Supreme Court.
In all those elections nothing could possibly have been clearer than that the Republicans would cut corporate taxes. At times it seemed that was all they could talk about.
The Times simply does not the outcome of the election. To entertain it's readers it publishes editorials like this and began Republicans members of Congress, who were elected to do exactly what they are doing, to betray their voters and their promises to cut taxes.
Fortunately for the country, although frustrating for the Times, the people elected to cut taxes are going to cut taxes.
Of course, the Times can always make contributions in excess of it's taxes to demonstrate it's love of big government.
I think people heard lower taxes and thought their taxes would be lower ... it's all about your pocket book.
1
Um, on this planet, democrats got far more votes for the white house and both branches of congress than republicans. Your railing about how election results should be respected is disingenuous in the extreme.
2
I have one word for you vis a vis the House: Gerrymandering
1
We can hope, however forlornly, that some Republican senators will act honorably. And we can also hope that those deluded workers will finally see how they have been swindled. We can hope.
A nation gets the government it deserves.
2
I am tired of the cliche "a nation gets the government it deserves." I can assure you that We the People of California do NOT deserve this monstrosity. WE did not vote for trump; WE have two democratic senators; WE have mostly democratic house members; WE have a democratic governor; WE have a mostly democratic state legislature. Finally, if the H of R ceiling was raised above the faux 435 members set back in 1918, WE would be sending a lot more democrats to the house and thus prevent the US government from inflicting this travesty on us. So no, Tiresias, WE do not deserve this government. WE are victims of the decisions that voters in other states inflict upon US.
7
Corporations do not need such a big tax cut, if any. A more modest one, say from 35% to 30% would make all this damage to the middle class unnecessary. But they must keep their donors happy and that's what matters to Republicans.
4
How shocking! A party is trying to ram through legislation without giving the NYT EB more time to poison the well. Of course when Democrats do it as in Obamacare that's OK.,it's for your own good. After it's passed then you can read it to see what's in it. Don't worry you can keep your current plan and doctor. The vanity and hypocrisy of the NYT Propaganda Department/DNC is almost as large as it's shameless impudence in thinking it has any credibility left with the public outside the echo chamber that it has been designing and building for the last several years. The constant drumbeat of anti-Trump propaganda fabricated by relentless ideologues has actually convinced them that reading their own press releases proves their contentions. The EB is sure that it's dire warnings are resonating with the public just as they did last November. Keep it up, Americans love arrogant pronouncements from proven fake news fabricators with an ideological ax to grind.You fools are guaranteeing President Trump's dominance in the midterms and reelection in 2020. Believers in truth, honesty, and especially Journalistic ethics thank you for your efforts.
1
I agree that pointing out a 'command and control' method of moving legislation is hypocritical, it happens on both sides.
I think the take-home point from this article, however, is the sentence:"People earning $40,000 to $50,000 would collectively lose $5.3 billion by paying more in taxes and receiving less in government spending in 2027 while millionaires would gain $5.8 billion, according to the Joint Committee and the Congressional Budget Office."
Do you believe this sentence? If so, what are you opinions on whether this is in the best interest of the majority of Americans?
The ACA bill was never hidden. That lie has been debunked. Go tell you lies at Brietbart.
3
Winston, the one spewing Fox News propaganda is you. If Trump can't stand the heat he should get out of the kitchen. Remember the rabid right drumbeat against "Crooked" Hillary? Trump's crookedness compares to her's as a mass murderer's criminality to that of a kid shoplifting a candy. As for anti-Trump "propaganda": If Trumps wants to diss it out, he should be able to take it... I think people and the media are still too nice to him.
2
Taking into account all what is said in this editorial today, what we have all to remember is that, this is how Capitalism works. It is a great thing for our country. We all benefit from the system. The crux of the problem is that the system is being exploited. If the system works well, why should there be a disparity, and ever growing, between the haves and the have nots. If there is a problem in the system, we would expect our elected leaders to fix the flaws. The elected representatives, on both sides of the aisle know this. But, do we see them addressing the issues?
Our government cannot exist if there is no taxation, and if no tax revenues flow into the treasury. The question is whether people are taxed on an equal footing? That does not seem to be the case. And, when government has to address debt and deficits, the decisions are directed towards cutting down on items such as Medicare, Social Security , services to the people and other subsidies.
No matter how we much we talk about taxation, and tax reforms, it will not do any good, unless the gap between the 'rich' and the 'poor' is addressed.
8
This clearly tells us one of two things either Johnson and Daines are il informed or in the pockets of wealthy plutocrats.
2
The Republican party in Congress and Trump are engaged in a massive criminal conspiracy against the interests of the vast majority of the American people. If they succeed, as looks likely, unless these measures are later reversed, millions will lose access to health-care and be condemned to extreme hardship, sickness, and avoidable deaths. The poor and middle-class will be robbed for the benefit of the very rich, who don't even need the extra dollars these tax cuts will give them. Inequality will rise and society's divisions. Putin should be glad that the man he helped bring to the White House is doing so much, with his party colleagues, to destabilize and weaken the United States. Poor America, once the land of the free, now a preserve for oligarchs consolidating their grip, to make it more like Russia - where a few well-connected and unscrupulous rich men run everything in their interest, led by a shady president with an unsavory past.
13
All this bending over backward to make the bill attract more votes is just making it smell worse and worse.
Instead of removing deductions, moving the rates for rich individuals to meet budget targets, and setting expirations of individual tax provisions (which we all know will become permanent because no lawmaker will vote to raise taxes, even if it's a deficit-creating move), why not just make the corporate cuts less generous? Couldn't they make things better for the middle class if the corporate cuts were from 35 to 30 or even 25%?
2
Susan Collins, Bob Corker, Ron Wyden, Ben Sasse, Jeff Flake and John McCain are the senators ,who will do the right thing for the poor and the middle class----I hope. I gave up on Lisa Murkowski of Alaska this time. I think she is scared.
6
To this day, since the mid 60's, when I was cracking open books titled "U.S. Government" and "Civics", I've had one persistent, nagging question.
What really is the bottom line, end of discussion, answer as to how and why the United States of America can form a government, like no other before it, and create the boldest human experiment in self governance ever tried on earth.
Was the glue holding us together really about truth, honor, chivalry, and all for one and one for all.
Or was there something hidden from our eyes, some subterfuge and deceit that would be exposed when the time was ripe and our so-called leaders would expose themselves for what their agenda is, in reality.
These thoughts came to me shortly after 'the peoples president', John F. Kennedy, my president, was murdered in Dallas, Texas, and Americas' greatest generation had warm tears streaming down their cheeks in disbelief.
I watched my fathers' eyes well, yet again, when Richard Nixon "I am not a crook" resigned in disgrace, shaming our country and exposing Americas' soft underbelly of sly deceit and corruption for all to see.
My spirit has not been broken.
I, like many others, suffer under our new totalitarian governance.
We all have taken hits and watched as our families have been shattered, our jobs taken from us and now we will suffer even more as the reigns of power has been handed to a new generation of super wealthy malcontents who would crush us underfoot as if we are so many ants. God help us
9
The common denominator purports to be "pursuit of happiness". That will differ for every person, but we collectively agree to organize a government to limit how hard we step on each other's toes in our diverse pursuits.
1
Godot, with due respect the rein of Nixon was nothing compared to this. In fact his resignation reaffirmed Americans belief that the system worked. RMN was a duly elected president, by a wide majority of American voters, his victory did not rely upon a slavery-era, power to the minority EC. Taking aside Vietnam and the Watergate break-in, RMN had been a decent president-- as measured by his care for the environment and some of his foreign policy. Neither he nor the GOP congress held We the People in such astounding disdain as our present group. In fact, Nixon toyed with the radical idea of a basic income! Finally, as appropriate the GOP held hands and forced "the crook" out of office. Ford declared the national nightmare over and served us with honor and dignity. We carried on. No such escape route awaits us now. Unlike you, MY spirit HAS been broken.
1
What would the Economist John M. Keynes say about this outrageous transfer of wealth from people who need it most to those who don't need it at all? Clearly we are moving from the New Deal to the Raw Deal. The Republican plan is designed to create more instability in the larger society by reducing the role of government as an integrative force.
7
Robin Hood in reverse. They (the very rich) have finally taken over the government.
There will be no jobs created for 98% of the population. There will be no raises. They are greedy and uncaring. Services that benefit 98% of the US will be cut or eliminated.
6
The Times analysis looks at the immediate short-term disposable income effects of the current tax bill on Americans, with special emphasis placed on middle-class taxpayers. In the short run, middle class households are better off under this new tax plan but "by 2027, families making under $75,000 a year would on average pay more in taxes according to the Joint Committee on Taxation."
This Times analysis also states that this tax deal would: "add more than $1.4 trillion to the federal deficit. That hole would have to be filled somehow, someday."
Currency valuations and exchange rates can also help to decode short-term economic effects from longer run economic trends. Since Trump's election, the US stock markets, famous for their present-oriented, immediate gratification; have soared. Yet currency markets have shown a marked US dollar decline versus the euro and renminbi, or Chinese yuan, after Trump's election, for examples.
Again, the stock market is notorious for its quarterly or very short-term and volatile valuations. While currency comparisons and exchange rates are attempts to systematically value a country's economic competitive advantages and disadvantages. And, this growth in future deficits with its higher interest rate implications, in the long run, seems to be fully anticipated by currency markets yet mostly ignored by bond markets in the US.
[JJL W 11/29/2017 12:47 p.m. Greenville, NC]
1
This is what 46 percent of voters voted for in 2016. They may not have known it, they may not like it now, but it's what they voted for. Voices like the Times editorial board tried to warn them, but to no avail.
8
So we have the far right negotiating with the even mo radical right to strengthen America's oligarchy rule. Are the oligarchs digging their own grave or is democracy's grave being dug deeper? Perhaps both.
2
While there will be winners and losers in this tax bill, it should be noted that there will be some large winners (multi-national corporations, families with great inherited wealth, AMT payers) and some very large losers including poorer people who barely scrape by paycheck to paycheck, individuals who live in states with high taxes (and better infrastructure), and students and families with students in college. Our tax bill will grow over 10,000 per year while my son is in college. Republicans love to change the rules in the middle of the game.
7
"Mom and Pop" business' are almost all Subchapter S Corporations. S Corps ARE pass throughs by definition. The Editorial board does no accurately identify this important fact and their statement that 70% of pass through income flows to the wealthiest 1% may be true but they neglect to mention the fact that of the other 30%, which is a hug number, flows to small business'. This part of the tax plan is designed to help small business' who are the primary engines of growth and hiring in the US economy. This is a hack job by the Editorial Board, it is disingenuous and deceptive.
It is difficult to ascribe any motive to this tax bill other than pigs at the trough greed. And while it is improper to hate people for different political opinions it is understandable to hate destructive animals and to slaughter them. I have watched this ugly scene play out again and again over the decades and I fear only a terrible economic disaster can result.
6
The GOP motto: Take from the poor and struggling; give to the very richest
2
Something I understand even less than Congress's willingness to do this to their own constituents is that said constituents keep voting them back into office. How utterly stupid can you be?
3
Bernard Shaw said something like this long ago. Government by democracy is of the fools elected by fools! Because a majority of voters cannot understand the complexity of society today and can be manipulated! Too bad we don’t have a better system for choosing our governments!
2
let it pass. kill Roe v Wade. take away ACA... and then listen to the complaints. I have insurance, I'm beyond child bearing years, and have some cash for rainy days. I'll survive and kinda can't wait for the backlash. Even Susan Collins is turning against the people of Maine to vote for her party's "victory". Guessing it will be short lived Senator. I didn't realize you had such a mean streak.
This is a travesty against the people of the USA.
8
Another reason to rush the vote is the Alabama special Senate election to be held on December 12. Whether Doug Jones, the Democrat wins, or Roy Moore, the pedophile, the certainty of Luther Strange's vote will be gone on December 13 when the opponents of this disaster will only need 2 Republican votes to kill it.
2
I'll give Trump credit for waking us up and making us pay attention. That's it, but, come 2018, it will be more than enough. BCE Trump, congress could pull any stunt imaginable and get away with it because nobody, except shut ins and poly sci majors were paying attention. Next time you're out to lunch, in a good way, listen to the conversations around you. Do these DC wonks think that we still aren't watching them? Well, go ahead mostly boys, and play your stupid games. Then next November, don't even think about asking about that tolling bell. Have one of your aides explain it...as your packing up!
3
That's what we all get for ridiculing and laughing at the Coal Miners when we knew they were being duped,...
We end up in the Shaft right along with them.
4
I've never been so worried about this country. The only chance to make this country great again is to get rid of the Republicans, every last one. If you're not rich and you think these people give a hoot about you, you're either hopelessly gullible, hopelessly dumb, or you're willing to pay higher taxes and are OK with the end of Medicare and Social Security because, hey, it upsets progressives. Oh right, you get to keep all those guns and keep out brown skin people!
7
1. GOP = Greed Over People
2. Greed Kills
3. GOP is killing the USA
4
Root Boy Slim said it all a long time ago
"ya gotta be rich white and republican ......"
2
It seems to me that if the tax bill is create jobs and boost the economy, that instead of reducing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 20%, the bill should give a direct tax credit to the extent of corporations investment in machinery and equipment which could reduce the effective tax rate of 20%. The corporate tax would remain at 35%, if they chose not to invest in capitol improvements. This would create jobs for the manufacturers of the improvements not merely ship dividends to foreign investors or allow uber rich buy another Mona Lisa. In other words if they invested only 5% of their tax in capital improvements, then their effective rate would be 30%. Unless corporations are required to invest in capital, it will be used for stock buy backs, foreign investments, dividends (30% of which goes to foreign investors) etc with little boost our economy.
This is just a quick thought, but what is really needed is for full hearings so the economists and others can testify as their view on what is best for our economy and people and what tax reform will lead to the greatest boost to our economy.
2
No public hearings. No attempts to explain or rationalize their choices: the old guard white guys are showing that they really think they know what's best. I cannot begin to understand how the base that elected Trump, who wanted better treatment, will be able to continue to support the GOP in any way once the consequences of - well, of what little we do know, materialize. Of course the worst comes in several years' time, and they will never acknowledge responsibility for it.
7
I have to wonder if Trump's base, particularly those in their 50s and early 60s and, of course, the angry old guys in their bright red MAGA caps, understands that a major result of this tax plan will be to substantially defund SSI, Medicare and Medicaid. This is exemplary of the "smaller government" the GOP has advocated for forever. I hope everyone is healthy, stays that way, and saves tons of money for retirement -- you're going to need it!
9
Saving money for retirement is a great idea. Far better than counting on unsustainable future tax increases to cover the costs. That saving will be made easier by tax cuts. The money invested will grow faster as corporations pay lower taxes.
dbh,
What future tax increases? And how are people supposed to save money when they get paid less than a livable wage by those corporations. By the way, the owners of those corporations have said the tax cuts will not make them hire more people or increase wages. What is your answer to that? Also, why do you hate poor people so much?
3
Perfect illustration - that's exactly how I feel!
2
When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.
1
What's maddening about this is they are in effect borrowing money to give it to the wealthiest people and handing the promissory note to the middle class to pay: privatize the profit and socialize the expense at its best.
5
Which is why they next need to cut spending. Across the board, but especially entitlements.
I guess the Republicans will ignore the sage advice from Milton Freidman: A tax cut without spending cuts is not a tax cut; it is a tax deferral.
4
It couldn't be more crystal clear. This shameful and disastrous "tax" bill just reinforces with even more clarity how corporations and the very wealthy control and own every lever of our government and democratic institutions for their own perusal. Democracy is now officially replaced with Oligarchy. I can only hope and pray that this will be the breaking point for millions of ordinary people to rise up and fight back with whatever means is necessary. They will attempt to crush our dissent, but we must use the power we have in numbers (people) and that meand revolution. Our very survival depends upon it.
8
America is having its "Angel Heart" moment, just like when Mickey Rourke's character Harold Angel confronts Robert de Niro (Louis Cyphre), who tells him he's eaten up his soul...
1
The Republican senators, it looks like all of them, have made a decision that just may include some fear, physical actual bodily fear, for what the President could do if he remains in his position and they vote against this bill.
There is no other explanation for at least Flake, Corker, McCain and Collins to vote for it. If any Senator had an "accident" in the District of Columbia, and the person who was "negligent" was convicted, President Trump could issue a pardon. As long as he is in this position, fear of his possible next stage could be, at the least, a subconscious consideration among some Senators.
People should recognize that the alleged "savings" from eliminating the Obamacare mandate is not savings at all. People who don't buy insurance still need medical treatment. They will just retreat to the pre-Obamacare tactic of receiving routine and all other medical care at the emergency room, and not being able to pay the bill because they are uninsured. So who pays that bill? Us taxpayers, somehow. It is just a shell game, and the 99% lose every time, as long as Republicans are in power.
9
Not that it isn't true but for some reason folks don't believe it. It's the "We'll Cross that Catastrophe when we CAN'T Pay For It." Syndrome.
"People who don't buy insurance still need medical treatment."
People wring their hands about Republicans driving us off the cliff, but they already did so: the George Bush ten-year, trillion dollar giveaway to the wealthy and its ineffective sunset provision. How many retirees saw their retirement savings evaporate (after being forced into speculative retirement savings plans instead of being able to rely on government support in retirement). Sequestration followed, when across-the-board cuts to agencies were required. Now we have failing infrastructure, no climate change plan, environmental catastrophes occurring regularly (two massive hurricanes, huge wildfires in the west, drought). The rich can insulate themselves and have plans about where to flee to and how to survive when this country becomes uninhabitable. Those are the Republican donors pushing this tax bill at the expense of the non-rich, who are stuck at the mercy of Trump et al.
5
We're witnessing the systematic destruction of our democratic republic. Those GOP donors' greed and selfishness will never be satiated, as they become even wealthier while automation replaces many skilled, better-paid workers and the middle-class shrinks. The result will be a large, poorly educated, minimum wage class with no access to healthcare and no upward mobility. Will the private sector provide them with clean air and water, affordable healthcare and nutrition, decent housing and schools for their children? Not unless there's a buck to be made!
4
THE GOP has no values, the only have the goal of making more and more money; it is empty, and it is destructive to the rest, eventually even to themselves and our world.
The GOP game plan is always to say look at that poor person, they are taking your money. That game works with some people; see the last election; this awful tax cut to the wealthiest may induce a corrective backlash, those of us that work hard and play by the rules are tired of the rich looking out solely for the rich, and this so-called tax cut is taking money from the poor and working class to give to the rich. Now even if providing corporations whom already have record profits more money were to stimulate the economy (it won't and they know that), but at a certain point taking all this money out of the pockets of those like myself only hurts these corporations if we have nothing left to give, and we have nothing left to give. We the people need real representation not the corporate wealth representation we have now!
2
Makes you wonder with all the money in politics why the conservative members of the SCOTUS didn't see this coming when they voted in favor of Citizens United. Or maybe they were "encouraged" to vote the way they did, just like the republicans are now "encouraged" to vote for a new terrible tax plan.
Unlike Democrats who tax heavily and kill economic growth. There's a recipe for disaster.
1
Which Democratic Economy are you referring, the Hoover One?
4
It it is time ... past time to get ourselves organized and discover our electoral strength. We are facing large tax increases to fund corporations that will in turn create jobs in Mexico or Latin America or India or Asia. The jobs will go there and the profits gained will go into Swiss bam accounts or “bitcoins”
Republicans are determined to wreck America. Hope the voters
wise up to understand the harm GOP is inflicting and send them
into oblivion. As late Andy Rooney used to say voters should use
brain in the polling booth.Please do.
2
The ongoing Republican claim that we have exorbitantly high corporate tax rates in America are nothing but a chimera. The effective corporate tax rate in the U.S. is actually 18%, which puts us squarely in the middle of OECD countries. Given that we are the biggest market and provide substantial protections and stability to companies, they should be paying what they pay, and overseas sales should be taxed, even if at a lower rate. On top of that, there is no chance that the much of the additional retained revenue from those cuts will flow back to employees, nor will it be used for R&D absent specific provisions in the tax code. There are lots of ways we could reform the tax code to improve our tax base and support small businesses. Overarching cuts to the corporate tax rate will do nothing for the vast majority of Americans, but they sure as heck will put a lot more money into the hands of the wealthiest. Money that the rest of us will have to repay sooner than we think.
2
"That would probably mean even higher taxes on the middle class in the future and cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and other important government programs."
BINGO! But add Social Security to those programs that would have to be cut or even eliminated in order to balance the nation's budget and pay off the debt.
If what they are doing is raising the deduction it is, in effect, moving closer to the House bill. The House did it with a special rate of 25% and the 17.4% deduction is equivalent to a 33% rate. All in it looked to me that the House bill was for billionaires and the Senate bill more for multi-millionaires.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2017/11/11/senate-tax-cuts-and...
As this Kabuki was presented over weeks, different senators have expressed reservations about this or that element of the bill. While those adamantly opposed to ANY Republican tax reform have gibbered and slavered, gleefully predicting that it will fail to attract the minimum 50 Senate votes required to pass, I've predicted that McConnell will get it passed by making what sausage he must to obtain the minimum number of votes needed. As we get into the last hours, it looks like I was right and others wrong.
However it turns out, 50-50 or as favorably as 52-48, one thing’s clear: Democrats have had zero impact on this legislation, in either the House or the Senate. And that’s simply irresponsible. They’ve failed because they haven’t been willing to trade even the fig-leaf of bipartisanship for their OWN requirements that might be barely acceptable to Republicans seeking that fig-leaf.
Yet, assuming what we now have becomes a passed Senate bill, there remain very big differences between the House and Senate versions that need to be reconciled in conference. The likelihood is high that both houses, on pure party-line votes, will delegate to the conference committee the power to agree to a version that Trump will sign, avoiding the need to present the aligned bill to both houses again for their acceptance. Democrats’ last chance for an impact will have passed if they can’t make themselves felt during this process.
Even from the wilderness, try to assert SOME relevance.
4
If Democratic leadership can’t even do THAT, then it becomes increasingly clear that they’re fit for leadership ONLY when they have majorities in the House and Senate. Republicans already are starting to ask themselves whether they face the same challenge with McConnell and Ryan and their apparatchiks. It’s even more relevant a question about Schumer, Pelosi and theirs, because it’s highly unlikely that realities will change much before 2020 at the soonest.
You might want to start thinking about who might lead Democrats in Congress who might bend a legislative arc leftward that without more effective leadership will remain decidedly rightward.
1
Republicans set this up from the get-go to ice Democrats out. They never intended to either seek or accept Democratic input. The blame is entirely on the GOP. Conservatives cried and whined for years that Obamacare was shoved down there throats. What the heck do you call this? It is really revolting, your pompous attempt to make excuses for the rapacious spectacle that is the Republican Party. Welcome to the United States of Ruin, Mr. Luettgen. Hope you are happy with what you voted for.
2
What exactly is it you're blaming the Democrats for having done or doing?
Just did a quick scan of the Fox News and Breitbart home pages and not a word about tax reform. It's getting obvious that these uber-conservative sites are not talking about this because they KNOW how devastating these tax reforms will be for their core audience in the long term. They're complicit in the deception that the current administration has their best interests in mind. If they truly cared about their readers (and by default, hardcore supporters of the current administration), they would use their platform and reach to lay bare all of the dirty truths in this legislation.
15
GOP was always the part of part of the obnoxious "rich" and their stooges a.k.a. quite like the royalties and their office bearers. Of course they do have the ones who yearn to be in the good eyes of the rich.
Worse it reeks strongly of "legal" corruption in the Land "of the people".
Soon we will look quite like Putin's Russia.
3
I have read that the Gini coefficient (a measure of wealth concentration ranging between zero and one, zero representing equal wealth for all, and one representing one person owning everything) of Ancient Rome at the time of collapse of the Republic, when the richest Roman was a Triumvir of the Empire, was 0.30.
The Gini coefficient of the US today is said to be 0.80.
4
It's heartening that The Editors have discovered that the US has a deficit and a debt. Why, just a year ago they apparently were unaware of either, just as they were shocked to learn of the existent of an Electoral College. I recall one Op-Ed writer who assured us that debt doesn't matter - we can just spend our way out of economic hard times. Oddly, he had an epiphany about a year ago and decided that our debt was so large that it spelled the end of civilization.
Regarding the deficit, it's hard to tell if The Editors are just stupid or demagogues. Our debt is now structural. It will not be lowered short of a cataclysm. The interest payment on the debt constitutes roughly three-fourth of the current deficit. It doesn't matter if there is a tax bill or not, the debt will continue to grow at a compounded rate.
The Editors' NEVER TRUMP campaign clouds whatever semblance of credibility they may have had. Sad, Times.
Oh get real, Albert. You don't even know who or what Trump is from one moment to the next. His only real power is hypnotizing pigeons.
2
Classic "Whataboutism".
Teapot Dome was a scandal?
What will history say of the current administration?
7
That deception and lies about “ helping the middle class” is the biggest con job of all.
Surveys show that Americans are mostly okay with what they pay in taxes but are concerned that others should pay their fair share, too.
The idea that Trump, who has yet to show his tax returns, is an appropriate spokesman for tax reform is ludicrous. This is the guy who said only chumps pay taxes.
Trump has no business talking about taxes until we see his tax returns. We know Trump's family will benefit greatly from eliminating the estate tax, but we have a right to see how else he stands to benefit from Republican tax breaks for the rich.
16
Not to mention his cozy financial relationship with Russian oligarchs and gangsters.
2
Trump just says "Gotcha!"
1
There are a number of major problems here:
First: The incestuous relationship between the top wealthy families and the wealthy Congressmen and Senators, through organized donations, interest groups and lobbyists for gamming the system to their advantages has gone too far. This incestuous relationship has been in play for decades. The GOP tax plan will result in the top wealthy families and their wealthy Congressmen and Senator lapdogs making further gains at the expense of the middle and lower income earners well into the future. The middle and lower income earners are not similarly organized and cannot present their interests. This is key to what’s at play here !
Second: As an economist, I am horrified by the prospect of widening fiscal deficits if this GOP tax plan becomes law. This will result in government incurring additional debt to pay for expenses in all programs. This is an abrogation of responsible government which is to enact laws that would support all Americans, Responsible government is NOT to enact laws on taxes to the benefit of the wealthy minority at the expense of the middle and lower class majority. This is tyranny of the majority by the minority.
There is a general rule in economics and finance: You do not take on debt to finance consumption. Households or organizations take on debt to finance capital projects, not current expenses. To do so is to invite major financing problems, including possible bankruptcy, in future !!! Who will pay the bills ???
5
Public debt is properly incurred to carry out projects that will reduce costs and/or pay dividends when it has been paid off. All public debt at all stages of maturity can remain a more or less stable aggregate over time, and grow with the size of the economy. Public debt plays a critical role over a human lifespan to shift earnings from productive years to consuming years of age.
1
This is thievery on the highest level. This is so obvious it is unbelievable. There isn`t any attempt to hide or cover this theft. We can plainly see them standing at the cupboard with an empty bag ready to clean it out on the signal of the signing. We can see with full transparency the bribery and coercion going on. It`s obvious that Johnson wants a bigger cut or he won`t play ball, and he`s not the only one. The only thing done in secrecy was the writing of the bill, and the only reason for that secrecy was the fact that much of what is in this bill wasn`t even written by those elected. The words on the parchment were provided by Koch Machine, it has been rolled up by Mercer and the ribbon was supplied and tied by Adelson. The Republican part of this theft is to make it all look legal. In the Wizard of Oz the curtain is pulled back to reveal the truth, here the thieves are in such a rush that they haven`t even bothered with the curtain. they have faith they can strong arm us on a public street in broad daylight . Trump was right, you can commit murder and get away with it. We are watching the murder of our Democratic Republic .
6
One reason these donors have so much money is that over the last 3 or 4 decades when American productivity went up, wages did not and and are now stagnated. Then the CEOs and owners of the corporations, in their greed sent their factories overseas and started donating to politicians with their fortunes. They are at their wealthiest, even over the Gilded Age; it would seem they operate as kings, dukes, barons (where the populace works just to support them). We are living medieval times again.
9
"About 70 percent of all pass-through income goes to people in the top 1 percent of Americans who receive any income whatsoever."
and who own Congress.
5
Given the ease with which skilled professional income can be packaged either as "salaries and bonuses" or as "dividends of pass-through businesses", both should be taxed the same rates. The top personal rate of 39.6% should be reduced to 33% as proposed by House Republicans in 2016, or even lower, but there is no reason to favor pass-through income beyond that as under the Senate bill.
Meanwhile, a 20% corporate tax rate would still leave the total burden on corporate investment up to 39%, since their qualified dividends are also taxed at up to 23.8%. Given the ease with which corporations can stay private or go public, not to mention the international mobility of investors and corporations, this total burden should be reduced to 33% as with pass-through income. This could most easily be accomplished by adopting the 20% corporate rate and just adding 50% of qualified dividends to AGI, thereby eliminating the byzantine Worksheet for LIne 44 on Form 1040.
For details, see my blogpost at http://blog.independent.org/2016/11/26/tax-reform-for-investment-income/ .
1
Has there ever been a time in the history of this country when the elected government has worked so deliberately, blatantly and ruthlessly to transfer wealth from the many to the few, and to advance the interests of those few at the expense of the many? Of course, during the era of slavery the government did support the interests of slave owners over those of their slaves, but when else has the government so openly worked against the interests of the majority of the citizens for whom it supposedly serves? Government of the rich, by the rich and for the rich shall not perish from the earth; until it does, perhaps due to another revolution of the people it no longer serves.
6
I'm curious as to how the republican constituents feel about this bill. And I'm not talking about the rich company owners. I'm talking about the low income republicans who are always so worried about "American values and morals". Do they really believe this tax bill is going to benefit them? Do they not understand that they are going to pay more in taxes or lose benefits because the government needs to pay for corporate welfare? Or do they just not care because to them politics is just a competition? What's most sickening is that there doesn't seem anyway to stop this insanity and nobody with the power to do so seems to care. The villains seem to always win in this country.
2
I'm dumbfounded that the outrage we saw with the GOP's attempts to repeal the ACA is not seen in response to this tax bill. It does far more damage to people, including raising premiums. And it will be wickedly hard to undo. Thinking people know that it is not only a giveaway to the wealthy at the expense of the middle class, but the real damage will be done in coming years when the resulting deficit is used as an excuse to dismantle the safety net--Medicare and Social Security--that nearly all of us depend on. At a time of rising health care costs and under-saving for retirement, this is the rub. Baby Boomers, that means you! Why aren't you marching and calling your MoC's offices?
What does not surprise me, sadly, is the Republican Party's willingness to cater to their donors instead of their voters.
105
I don't know how Republicans keep doing this. They always call for lower taxes, no matter what, so they should just call for zero taxes. That is what they want. There is no justification for lowering taxes right now. If anything, Congress should raise marginal tax rates. We just had two enormously expensive hurricanes this year that FEMA is bailing out. We will continue to have expensive "weather" disasters for the foreseeable future. The federal government should be leading the charge to protect the public welfare. That will require spending.
4
I am no longer surprised at what the GOP is doing. This has been a goal of theirs for years: to slash away at whatever benefits working Americans while giving every rich corporation or American a free pass. It's the same mentality that refuses to admit global warming is real, gun control needs to be improved, our health care system is a wealth care system, and that racism, sexism, and economic inequality are growing rather than diminishing thanks in part to their policies. They want to create an America where the only people who count and vote are those in the moneyed class. It will never ever cross the mind of a Mitch McConnell, a Paul Ryan, a Mike Pence, or any number of other GOP officials that working Americans deserve more than crumbs from the table of our republic's prosperity.
This has been going on for over 30 years. It started to become obvious in the Reagan years, came out even more during Obama's 8 years and has reached its natural conclusion with Trump in office. We have a rich fool in the White House, a Darth Vader or his minion as vice president, and puppets running the Senate and House of Representatives all to secure for the very rich more of what they no longer need. The worst part of all of this is that enough people voted in the right places to make this possible. They drank the Kool Aid.
6
The billionaires who own the republican party - the Koch brothers, Robert Mercer, etc - are willing to have Americans dying in the streets, so that they can have bigger jets and yachts. Yeah, maybe not this particular piece of legislation, but it ain't over; they want everything.
So it's a fight to the death; let's call it what it is. May the best side win.
There are also a lot of small businesses that are pass throughs. Your analysis is skewed by looking at the total value of the passthroughs instead of the total number of companies.
It might be better if we undergo the suffering and anguish that will come with increased taxes on the middle class and the poor and millions losing their health coverage. Because once that happens the revenge of those who have been abused so badly by the wealthy Republicans and their wealthy donors will be felt when the vast majority of them will be voted out of office and rendered ineffective as a party for many years after that.
2
The leadership in Washington is void of any ability to stand up for what must be done for the best interests of our country.
Consider this quote to a bygone era when the Senate Leader reaches out to the Minority Leader to do what is right for the country.
During the economic crisis of 1971, Mansfield was not afraid to reach across the aisle to help the economy:
“What we're in is not a Republican recession or a Democratic recession; both parties had much to do with bringing us where we are today. But we're facing a national situation which calls for the best which all of us can produce, because we know the results will be something which we will regret.”
Today the GOP is considering passing a terrible tax bill simply because they can without any effort for a consensus bill that works for the majority of the citizens they supposedly represent.
Where are today’s Mike Mansfields in the United States Senate? Senator McCain, Collins, Murkowski and others please force the Senate to build a better future for my grandchildren. Vote no on this insipid bill.
1
Having read down through the comments and replies here, it is obvious to me that many people, probably a majority of the electorate, know how bad this tax bill is. Why then, did the elected officials of both our major parties let it get this far? Obviously, they have been bribed to do so. They no longer represent the American people.
4
I'm old enough to remember when passing legislation without any votes from the opposite party was called "ramming it through."
3
I also see that DJT is all set to blame democrats when we have our inevitable government shutdown in a week or so.
His base of course will believe it. It's easy to assign blame to the blameless when you tell the culpable that nothing is ever their fault.
2
Vote them out and re-reform the tax code and corporate welfare.
1
Good points all. But what the NYT takes for granted, and does not make part of its assessment and argument, is that the current wealth situation in the US is as bad as it is. Republicans and Democrats have succeeded, through tax and other policy decisions, to allow a handful of individuals to amass as much wealth as more than half the country. And the inequality just continues to grow. The right kind of tax reform, for me, would be pegged to substantial reductions in the untenable levels of existing income and wealth inequality.
49
It's a uniparty in DC, owned by Wall Street.
Yes, Michael, with the highest GINI Coefficient of Wealth Inequality in the World: Robert Mugabe's 37 year Kleptocracy of Zimbabwe, Nambia, the USA, and Switzerland --- how's them apples?
Only solution, "Wealth Reform" --- like "Land Reform" but with the new paramount asset-class of 'wealth/capital', instead of 'land'..
And the real benefit of demonstrating & protesting for "Wealth Reform" 'Right Here in River City' is that it will "scare the bejesus" out of the < 0.01% UHNWIs with their looted, hoarded, monopolized, and taken-out-of productive use billions.
Instead of wasting your time 'ResistandProtesting' for Net Neutrality or Saving Elephants, folks, just get 100,000 protesters in New York for "Wealth Reform" "Against the EMPIRE" ----and see how fast the Billionaires will be getting on their jets with suitcases to get out of Dodge before they get tarred and feathered!
1
A bill that lowers the tax rate for pass through companies and eliminates the AMT at the same time certainly makes it easier for those who are already wealthy to keep their wealth. Meanwhile, the already meager deduction for medical expenses used mostly by elderly people in their later years takes away what little they have left. I know, I know, once again I am trying to use logic in an area where logic does not apply.
3
Less than 9% of federal revenues are derived from corporations. It disingenuous to suggest that lowering the corporate rate without taking into the account any benefit the economy would receive from the repatriation of their overseas profits as well as any economic benefit from doing so. Corporations do not pay income taxes anyway. Its a pass thru cost of doing business that is reflected in the increased price for goods and services that the consumer pays for. Stockholders already pay taxes on dividends as well as capital gains. We need to simplify the tax code and do away with most of the deductibles. Do this and we will be the investment magnet for the world.
1
I'm not a tax lawyer or accountant, so maybe I misunderstand, but here's my example of how this is going to work:
My family's federal income tax marginal rate is about 28% currently (on about $200k of gross income) but borderline 33%. My family owns a number of rental properties that generate income, though they are established as LLCs and managed as such (my understanding is this is a common practice).
Under this plan, it looks like the marginal rate on that income will drop to 25%, saving 3% or maybe 8%(!) on the top end.
While I don't say "no" to free money, I'd rather we fixed roads and bridges, and provided better funding for higher education or head start programs. I will just sock away any extra money in an investment account. Thanks Republicans, but there are better things to spend the money on.
5
How can Sen Johnson demand bigger breaks for pass throughs with a straight face even putting aside how this is a break for the wealthy. Pass throughs were created at the insistence/lobbying of "small" businesses because they were advantageous for those owners to avoid "double" taxation (at the corporate level and again to the individual when profits were distributed as dividends). Any pass through business can choose to be an ordinary corporation if it wishes to take advantage of the lower "corporate" rates.
2
Corporate tax breaks will simply result in increased profits and dividends, unless Congress barters for specific exchanges that benefit workers and/or the nation.
Why give away huge corporate tax breaks "in the hopes of" job creation, "in the hopes of" increased wages, or "in the hopes of" increased US investment?
Make businesses an offer they can't refuse, don't just give it away for nothing in return.
7
During the campaign Trump talked about the rigged system and boasted about using it to his advantage better than anyone. He then said he would fix it. Did his supporters really believe he was going to undo a system that increases his wealth and gives him advantages over the middle-class and poor?
6
So who is going to pay for the wars Trump is about to start? And by the way, since all enlisted military personnel and almost all officers make under $75,000 per year, how much are their taxes going up?
6
This year for Christmas, Congress should give the American people the gift of good government. Not too expensive. And it would be much appreciated. Just a thought.
6
Nobody ever made more money by hoarding it, but they did hold on to it longer, and reducing taxes by reducing funding for government which benefits corporations and the most wealthy and forces government to compete for loans to operate is going to result in hoarding by those already capital fat entities. Investing money to expand production of products that cannot be sold is not going to happen. The people who enjoy ever greater income are too few to support the greater demands that could justify greater investments in new wealth creating endeavors. This legislation will not improve economic growth enough to avoid hoarding on a big scale.
2
Right here is yet another stark difference between our two political parties. Oh, they both love to talk about 'everyday Americans', 'our great middle class' and 'hard working Americans', etc.
Only one of the parties backs up those words with actions.
5
Every Republican Congressman and Senator is a reflection of a majority of their constituents, or else they would not occupy the office they hold. Criticizing our elected representatives is like criticizing the mirror when we look into it and are appalled at what we see.
1
This deplorable welfare for the wealthy tax bill is one of the most glaring examples of the Republican party. Republican politicians can no longer claim that Trump does not represent their values, this bill says it all. Destroy and dismantle all benefits for the poor, elderly and middle class to pander to their donors.
5
Let's see if McCain and the other few with BIG and important questions on the tax bill will stand by their principles or stand by their donors. Yet another moment with the opportunity to do the right and moral thing.....let's just see.....................................
4
We need to repeal the Citizens United Supreme Court decision. We are being ruled by unelected billionaires. Makes you wonder why we even pretend to hold elections.
6
The GOP has been the party of big business and big money for a long time. Yet until now, I never realized just how total the control of the wealthy donors over the party is. They have absolutely no respect for democracy, or for decency. They are simply for sale to the highest bidder.
6
The "grand old party" exists to protect the assets of the rich. "45" has convinced many middle class voters that he is a populist.
Vote progressive in all local, state and national elections.
3
After 8 years of Obama doing nothing to support economic growth, almost anything is better than what we have now.
It is amazing that the Democrats now have religion on the deficit after Obama adds over $10 trillion. Give us all a break. A net $1 trillion add over 10 years is nothing and will easily be offset by economic growth. The CBO is been notoriously wrong in all its projections, so you can't put much faith in what they project as reality always gets in the way. Look at what they projected about ACA. Wrong as they said saves $136 billion and it actually will cost $1,3 trillion.
And the argument about people will lose coverage is ridiculous. When people are given a choice and they lected not to pay that is not losing coverage. That is a conscious decision to spend their hard earned money in a different way.
This country needs a corporate tax cut to make us competitive and if some of us has to pay more, so be it. But this is the first move to do something that is pro-growth after 8 years of Obama's failure to do anything.
I have been hoping that two or three republicans would show some principle and some love of Country and stop this fiasco from becoming law. That hope is dwindling by the hour.
republicans have destroyed our democracy with their scorched earth obstruction of all things from the democrats, even ideas that originated within their own party and political apparatus. Now they are going to destroy the fabric of the Nation leaving behind.....what? An over inflated military industrial complex? An infrastructure in tatters is more likely going to be the result.
It seems to be coming time for an all out tax revolt. No more money from blue states to red. You people want to live in a third world country go right ahead.
4
I did my own calculations on how this bill will effect my own taxes. I KNOW that I will be paying more and am getting sick and tired of all the lies that are being spewed by those who want to cut taxes for those who need to pay more of their fair share, not less. I urge everyone to do their own calculations and then get on the phone and make some noise.
1
Let's face it--the vast majority of this country (middle and lower income) have absolutely no say in anything that happens in congress. These men and women we have so unfortunately voted into office have no intention of cutting taxes to anyone but the wealthiest. Remember when Trump held up that postcard in his campaign speeches telling us that this is what the tax code would look like? A single card. Under this new act that is being ram rodded down our throats mostly in secret, as everything else they do, is even more complicated and immoral than the previous. It's all smoke and mirrors and snake oil designed to divert as much money to the already wealthy as possible. We have no say in any of this and if you think you do, I have a bridge to Alaska to sell you.
2
There are passing mentions in the comments about the process and procedure being used, but it warrants greater attention. We, in New York, are effectively suffering the effect of taxation without representation. Our elected leaders, if Democrats, have been excluded from the process, and the rules have been rigged to allow the Republicans to proceed with 50 votes. (With more time for study, it may well be that the proposed Senate bill is not rightly treated for reconciliation). And the Republicans are targeting the blue state citizens with higher taxes. This is a shameful abuse of a supposed democracy. And the President should not be allowed to escape blame, as he always tries to do; from this point forward, if the bill passes, we all should be tracking and reporting on the Trump Debt and the Trump Deficit.
2
Can someone explain something to me? I've read President Trump won the Electoral College but not the Popular Vote, which some commenters use as a reason to discount his legitimacy.
But Congress, Senate, many Goverorships and others WERE elected, overwhelmingly. By voters. They are the majority!
So, if the Republicans have always destroyed economies with Voodoo economics, Trickle Down economics, tax cuts for the rich, nothing for the poor, why are they voted in again and again, ad nauseum?
Is it all Gerry-mandering, redistricting and voter suppression? Or is there a perverse streak with people voting for a child molester rather than a Democrat, because, "once a Republican, always a Republican"?
I ask this with all due respect as an outsider looking in.
1
And to think I was imagining a handful of Republicans voting for the good of the American People when, all along, they were just holding out for more tax cuts and benefits for billionaires (the American oligarchs!) and our kleptocratic corporations and Wall Street.
Is this how Senators Corker and Flake planned their exits all along? Is Sen. Susan Collins really a shill for the oligarch class?
We have known since the rise of Newt Gingrich that the Republican Party had burned their maps to the moral high ground in protest of the common good. Their idea of governance has been ungovernance. They hate Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid yet, most of them proclaim their love of Jesus. And all along, they have been genuflecting to Ayn Rand, the princess of darkness.
The con job of the Republicans is moving at a fast pace. As if gerrymandering was not doing enough damage to American voters' rights, they are now loading every open federal bench with staunch conservatives to thrwart the thousands of lawsuits that will assuredly by filed against this criminal administration.
What if Trump and his henchmen are found to have conducted criminal behavior in office (thanks to the good work of Mueller & Co.). Will the cabinet appointees dedicated to the destruction of our regulatory agencies, for the sake of corporate sponsors, be tossed into the trash with Trump? Will the right-wing judges picked for federal benches be ousted as unlawful appointments? Time is not on our side.
3
Like most readers, I have serious concerns about the impact of the tax bill on individual tax payers and families (especially those in high SALT states) and the tax benefits to high income taxpayers that would appear to have little impact on the overall economy. But I think some of concerns expressed in NYT editorial page are not supported by the facts. The CBO report (https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52370) project growth at 1.9 percent over the next 10 years. Growth this year, in an economy that is still considered sluggish, will exceed 3%. Every .1 percent of growth over the 1.9 adds hundreds of millions to the US Treasury. Doing nothing, the CBO projects that unemployment will approach 4% (considered full employment/labor shortage) and that will put upward pressure on wages (a good thing for entry level and middle class employment). If we can make our corporate taxation more attractive and encourage companies to repatriate offshore profits we should be able to trigger growth beyond the CBO's baseline projection. Like Obamacare, this is an imperfect bill but not the looming disaster presented to NYT readers.
3
You are displaying the same kind of unsupported optimism that the Republicans in Congress are using to pass this tax bill. It is true that the economy may grow at a 3% clip for 2017, or it may remain below 3% depending on performance in the final quarter of 2017. 2015 saw two quarters of 3% plus growth, but in the final analysis, growth remained below 3% for 2015. Growth in the economy is always depended upon productivity plus population growth. Population growth in the United States has been somewhat stagnant, and immigration has been stymied. New productivity gains may be attributed to expansion of robotics and other things, but unless there's concurrent population growth, economic growth will remain at 3% or less. The other factor, generally not considered, is a recession or a downturn. The economy may be going well, and the stock market may be increasing, but you need to remember that everything that goes up eventually comes down, and when they do government revenues will fall, thus increasing pressure upon the deficit. Markets will correct themselves at some point.
2
Why do you think that increasing the supply of capital will generate greater investments in the real economy when vast amounts of it are being saved or used to trade securities or in increasing executive salaries or buying back stocks or in mergers and acquisitions or in automation but not in producing a lot more products for mass marketing?
4
The bill does nothing to repatriate offshore profits. Wasn't that supposed to be one of the main objectives? Did they just forget to put that in the bill? Or, was it just another bait and switch?
4
The tax reform bill, by my calculation, will greatly advantage our family. The Republicans are offering a "tax opioid." And we are opposed because of the ultimate predictable effect on America.
In other words, we don't want to see the USA follow the state of Kansas into a deep hole to advantage a few wealthy folks. Only fools would believe that these tax cuts will create jobs or raise wages. The plan actually incentivizes reaping profits and personal income. And because the failure of the "Kansas Plan" is so predictable, watch the rush to the door to take capital out of the economy.
But where is the Democratic plan? How about some really popular proposals like taxing 401k's at the long term capital gains rate? How about corporate tax cuts coupled with increases on the top personal income rates? How about closing thousands of loopholes for the wealthy? Why is there no alternative plan from the Democrats?
Republicans will have their way in the absence of an alternative. They will sprinkle "tax opioids" on American Families like mine. My hunch is that we are headed into an economic epidemic.
61
The coming Depression will make the last Recession look like a modest market correction. If this tax legislation goes into effect 10% unemployment will look like the good old days. We will all suffer. I dread the fallout.
Steve, I agree that our Democratic leaders need to present their plans for America's future to counter the Republicans. But the claim that we have high corporate tax rates in America is a chimera. The effective corporate tax rate in the U.S. is actually 18%, which puts us squarely in the middle of OECD countries. Given that we are the biggest market and provide substantial protections and stability to companies, they should be paying what they pay, and overseas sales should be taxed, even if at a lower rate. On top of that, there is no chance that the much of the additional retained revenue from those cuts will flow back to employees, nor will it be used for R&D absent specific provisions in the tax code. There are lots of ways we could reform the tax code to improve our tax base and support small businesses. Overarching cuts to the corporate tax rate ain't it.
Steve, Democrats have been shut out of the process for this bill, so it is naive to expect anybody is eager for their inputs.
The current Republican creed:
"...and that government of the wealthy, by the wealthy, and for the wealthy shall not perish from this earth."
And don't sweat the small people; they're the losers anyway.
5
I agree that the real purpose of this tax plan is to go after entitlements in 2018. Paradoxically it may force a democratic president in 2020 to be the villain What a sham!!
As far as the insurance mandate, as a health care worker I am sure this it was effective. A bandaid. Obamacare has a fundamental flaw in being run by insurance companies with government payouts. Rings too similar to the flawed incentives of the federal flood insurance company. We need the GAO to investigate these insurance companies to ensure that the premiums are not being inflated to get the subsidies. As far as I can see they can charge what they like and create more uninsured while getting rich from the increasing subsidies. The real solution is single payer. We cannot continue much longer with this crazy system. Obama care was only the beginning of the cultural change we needed for us to realize that healthcare is a human right and community need. Sorry for the digression but it is relevant if this tax plan goes through and our deficits go through the roof.
2
What is the matter with these people born with fair advantages that they would exploit unfair advantages on top of that?
The pursuit of happiness got trampled long ago in this madhouse.
5
Dear NYT Editorial Staff: while sharing your convictions about the "merits" of the bill, I am troubled that you are openly advocating the submission of comments in opposition to wavering senators. Aggressive advocacy by a journalistic entity (and, in this instance, a national treasure) regarding an Act of Congress seems over the top and, indeed, threatening to the image of the Times as an impartial provider of news. Absent a declaration of war, I wish you wouldn't do it.
This is an editorial, not a regular piece of journalism. Please educate yourself about the difference between the two.
Thanks to the Times Editorial Board for doing EVERYTHING you can to protect this nation and its future wells-being: Your Tweets today!
This is the first time, to my knowledge, that the Times has gone so far as to tweet and publish the phone numbers of Senators who may be swayed to vote against this bill.
That tells us how vital it is to the future and well-being of us all!
Blessings upon the Times Editorial Board! And your intrepid reporters!
2
I think the only thing that would cause pause by ANY Republican Senator would be if we had another Washington protest like the Women's March on Washington in January. If you couldn't get to Washington, we could have marches in major cities as well. That would be doable.
Remember at the time it was wondered if the political action could be sustained?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/01/30/why-the-wo...
Yes . . . that's what it would take!
2
The only thing genuine about today's Republican Party is their love of money and power. Despite their personal dislike of the clod in the White House, Corker, Flake, and McCain will show their true colors when it's time to take action on the GOP's one true belief: that they must lower taxes on their sugar daddies.
2
I can see it all now. The Republican travesty of a tax bill will pass. The deficit will balloon. People will lose their health insurance. The Democrats will come back into power and have to raise taxes to clean up the mess. The Republicans will scream "Tax and spend Democrats! Big Government! Socialism! Fiscally irresponsible! Deficit bad!" When does the intervention start?
2
What, you think passage of this tax plan is in question ? Would starving dogs leave your dinner alone if you turned your back on it ? Let's be real here, this is Trump's party and the GOP is proud to stand tall with the one percent.
2
This is a very important change to the bill which would benefit small businesses and independents. It is the only good change in the whole bill. Once again NYTimes doesn't understand of what it writes. And I am a staunch liberal. But let's create the opportunities for entrepeuership. Truly stupid editorial. Write about the estate tax-- that is the real problem in it.
1
The lesson is that when both houses of the congress and the presidency are controlled by Republicans the result is pigs feeding at the trough.
3
Since the bill has such a small amount of beneficiaries and causes a huge hit on the federal budget this is the perfect logic to pass the bill according to likes of McConnell and Trump. There is little logic in an economic sense except some lame oft repeated refrain that everybody will benefit with all the economic growth this mess accomplish. Supply side economics and tribal exhortations by Senate Republicans have put the momentum in high gear. The interesting thing is that it doesn't matter how unpopular this bill is. The Republican big money must be paid. The national debt and important discretionary spending be damned. Tax payers in general be damned.
2
Aren’t you glad you worked hard all those years—just to be robbed by GOP grifters?
4
It has been true for decades now that when taking into account all taxes (federal, state, local, property, sales tax, etc.) actually paid by the middle class vs. corporations and the wealthy, we have a regressive tax system.
This bill will make it more so.
3
The clear history of Republicans in office is one of corrupt allegiance to the rich--the American scandal of pay-to-play. Fund our campaigns and we'll lower your taxes and shift the load onto the middle and lower classes.
3
My morning Leonhardt email from you today says this:
"#thetaxbillhurts. The Times editorial board is undertaking a social-media campaign today to educate people about the tax bill — and lobby against it."
Today???? You're starting today??? It's too late now, Times. Can you please clearly state the lies put out by these pillagers? Can you have a headline that says everything in trump's tweet about Pelosi and Schumer is a lie and is actually what he himself is doing?
Schumer cannot message. He sounds like Clark Kent with his cocktail party little rhymes and arch crafted hooks. Help us out here. Tell the truth please. Tell it daily, tell it often.
If you tell the truth enough times, it's possible people will believe it.
BTW—google "Most popular politician in the United States," will you? And then maybe put him in your publication now and then.
4
The Republican Tax Reform plan is nothing more than Bernie Madoff on a colossal scale. It is a hand in the pocket of 95% of all Americans to transfer more wealth to the already extraordinarily wealthy.
6
I'm so tired. So tired of our non-representative government that grotesquely values red state voters over blue. So tired of a government that's been gerrymandered beyond all relation to reality. So tired of Republican leadership that lies continuously, tears down one convention and tradition after another, only ever speaking the language of anger, destruction and greed as they flip-flop on one supposed core conservative value after another, and value the party ideology du jour over country time and again (and again and again). But most of all I'm so tired of inept Democratic leadership and blue state idiots who can't be bothered to come out and vote. This is all on you as much as it is on cartoonishly cynical and malevolent Republicans. Please, someone give me a reason to believe we're not sliding into ruin as a civilization. Please.
12
Human beings are the most software-driven animals so far evolved on Earth. Nothing obliges us to continue to think in the future as we have in the past.
On the other hand, how Trump got more than 15% of the vote is beyond me.
What about the responsibility of those voters?
2
Sorry, DB. The end of civilization is just around the corner. There is no hope for the US. Everyone should start making their emigration plans immediately. Start applying for visas to whatever country offers the best perks, and get out before the stampede starts. Good luck, and bon voyage.
NYT should be ashamed of their editorial board musings. This is why conservative shills are able to call mainstream media biased.
Sure, there are some good points, but it is so one sided that you’d think the DNC is writing it. Stick to fact based journalism (and try to remove the bias there too).
1
Now that lies are treated as facts we hear a lot of this kind of guff. People calling themselves progressives should stop supporting Trump and Russian trolls. It's sometimes hard to tell the difference these days.
You're going to be really happy when they start to dismantle Social Security and Medicare, thanks to deficit busting to make tax cuts for kleptocrats the law of the land.
17
The New York Times speaks for me. If they speak for you contact U.S. Senators/house representatives right now and tell them to VOTE NO!
Here is the contact information:
https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
https://www.house.gov/representatives\
4
Oh how WRONG you are!
The Times, through its Editorial Board, is trying to alert the Nation and save the Republic - from mendacious, larcenous forces that want to loot the treasury on behalf of the UN-needy - those who can easily afford to have taxes raised, not lowered!
5
In GOP we rust
8
I feel nothing for know-NOTHINGS who voted to slit their economic throats. Some things are unforgivable.
8
At this point it's obvious Republican are a farce in every respect. Intellectually, morally, and behaviorally.
8
And so is the farcical system that lacks the long-established parliamentary process to restore confidence in government when it has been lost: a timely election.
1
You getting what you want Republicans? How about you Trump voters?
4
We have to remember that republicans have always been the party of the rich - or at least the disgustingly affluent.
3
Yeah, the party of Buffet, Gates, Bezo, Soros, Bloomberg, Steyer, the Hollyweed crowd, the SilVal honchos, the Hampton folks, Martha's Vineyard regulars, the Davos elites - in general, just salt of the earth working class grinders. All those folks on the Forbes 400 that Hill smoozed with last year. Uh huh.
The GOP congress are traitors to their country and about to institute a permanent kleptocracy. We'll all be living in a North Korea or a Venezuela soon, thanks to them. Time for Americans to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.
6
Interesting how politics mirrors literature. The GOP remind me so much of Dorothy's cohorts in THE WIZARD OF OZ: Collectively they have: No brains, no heart, and no courage. Except that the scarecrow, the tin man, and the lion certainly had all that they thought that they lacked, but here, with the GOP, we have a murderous infection of miscreants who truly have NOT amongst them ONE brain, ONE heart, or ANY courage. In fact the GOP is the collective embodiment of The Wicked Witch of the West. ryan and mcconnell are absolutely winged monkeys! Remember how that witch was destroyed? Dorothy threw water upon her. Robert Mueller...please start throwing water...A LOT of water. SOMETHING OR SOMEONE has to put an end to this criminal conspiracy that has overtaken our country, our safety, our security, and our well-being. Because as Dorothy so astutely said to her little dog: "Toto, I don't think we are in Kansas anymore!" And I don't think that we are in The United States of America anymore...
8
WELL DONE!
2
The world’s dumbest billionaires spent hundreds of millions on this bill. The eventual result? Victory by any reasonable democratic candidates who run on taxing these fools for every last dime they have stolen. Odds are strong that the backlash will eventually cost them enormously. Be careful what you lust for.
6
Republicans, you are ruining this country for our children and grandchildren.
You, too, have children and grandchildren.
6
This country is on a doomsday ride to its self-destruction. There is no functioning Government here operating as a Democracy. This is a pure Kleptocracy at work here. How can even the poor and downtrodden middle class Trump voters not see this for what it is: The rich and powerful gaming the system for their own benefit. It is a true sickness. Why are the Red States so full of such dumb people?
8
Somehow us sheep managed to elect these people. Then we let them re-write the laws that gerrymander and game the system. Elect themselves forever, elect the village idiot. Had enough yet? There’s plenty of blame to go around. Especially the guy or gal in the mirror. March on Washington. Organize now. Vote with your feet. Don’t let the mafia takeover.
6
The only "public" debate on this was CNN. Why Bernie Sanders has become the face of the Democratic party is beyond me and Ted Cruz for the Republicans? CNN's push for ratings--giving the two of them hours of airtime over healthcare and taxes is troubling. Shouldn't the debaters be mixed up so as to not give unfair advantage to anyone considering a 2020 run?
And I thought last night's debate on taxes was a disservice to the American public. Sanders spent much of the debate defending single-payer and his position on taxes--neither of which have been formally adopted by the democratic party. Yet Cruz did his best to make Sanders's positions synonymous with the Democratic party.The Republicans were never asked to confirm that 60% of the benefits of the tax cuts go to the top 1% and corporations, and never responded how passage would ultimately impact social security and medicare. And when Cruz argued that the Republicans had to use Reconciliation to pass the bill because Democrats would otherwise filibuster the bill to achieve their goal of raising taxes on the middle class, no one pointed out that if the Republicans care so much about the middle class why not make their tax cuts permanent and corporations temporary so as to meet the Reconcilliation requirements?
4
If GOP senators want to do something nice for the Koch brothers and their top 0.1%, they might limit themselves to mowing their lawns and general landscaping. That way, the Koch brothers are happy, and US citizens are not harmed by loss of healthcare insurance, access to abortion, and increased student debt.
5
it is a done deal. this bill will pass. the republicans objecting are either weak, or compromised or both. if they ever had a real interest in the little guy they would not be republicans.
8
Unless WE THE PEOPLE stop them, coale johnson. Call, write, e-mail and/or tweet them today and tell them to
VOTE NO ON TAX GIVEAWAY TO THE ROBBER BARONS!
Here is the contact information:
https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
https://www.house.gov/representatives\
3
let trump preen and gloat. so happy Mr Mueller is coming for him and his family. I hope Ryan and McConnell pose for lots of photos with the criminal, will be fun to see after the trumps, Kushner arrests
2
The Times is right that efforts to give tax 'parity' to small businesses is an unwarranted windfall to wealthiest, especially to President Trump, Treasury Secretary Mnuchin and National Economic Council Director Cohn. But nobody seems to understand just how absurd those provisions are. Here is what you need to know-
-The corporate tax rate (of 35% or 20%) is assessed against corporate income. Any distributions to owners as dividends is taxed again at 23.8% (double taxation) resulting in an effective tax rate on distributions to owners of 50.47% currently and 39.04% under the proposal. So you must compare the current pass-through rate of 39.6% (the current top individual rate) to the proposed effective rate on corporate distributions of 39.04%. That is a miraculous parity!
-Only pass-through businesses which earn more than about $250k will benefit from the proposal, and most of the benefits will go to the top 1%.
-Most of those successful businesses have chosen pass-through status to avoid the double taxation of a corporation and can easily change that status.
-Pass-through businesses can elect to be taxed as a corporation (to take advantage of the proposed 20% corporate rate) by filing form 8832 with the IRS.
So there is no need to devise the most complicated rules to provide tax parity to small businesses. Keep the pass-through rate as it is now, taxed at the individual rate. But also keep it easy for small businesses to be taxed as a corporation.
The corporations earned profit which is taxed.
Shareholders earn income on their investment and it is taxed.
I don't have a problem with that.
And all of us are double taxed when our salary is taxed and then we buy gasoline with more taxes, etc.
In the end, we need to pay for government. It is just a matter of who pays.
And there is no reason to think people organized as a business are by nature any better or worse than people organized as government.
Go look at countries like Denmark. Government provides education and healthcare all better than we do.
And Forbes Best Countries for business consistently ranks those countries ahead of the US, often in the top 10. And the US is consistently below 20.
We have the best military on the planet. Why can't we have the best education and healthcare on the planet. And I mean universal like those countries. Not just for the well off that is what we have here and at twice the cost.
We have poverty they don't have. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. We have states where African American infant mortality rates are worse than Botswana.
And we are the richest industrialized country on the planet GDP / capita.
2
This grand theft Republican tax scheme is likely to be achieved by a party that lost the popular presidential vote by just shy of three million votes in the last presidential election.
Now Trump and his GOP supporters can look forward to a government shutdown, which is what he and the Russians will to savage our society further. If the remainder of our national government goes the way of our hollowed-out state department, our president can look forward to curbing Muller's probe by depriving it of funding.
2
The Republican Party-before-country recognizes no limits in their shameful servitude to their wealthy donors.
I used to be a fairly reliable GOP voter until they put an incompetent, ignorant woman on their ticket for VP in 2008. Since then they have only moved further to the extreme right and brought a madman to the White House. They defend the indefensible, support un-American policies, and show their contempt and disregard for average citizens on a daily basis.
I will never again cast a vote for a member of that party.
15
The GOP will pay for this outrage at the ballot box. We will not forget.
9
I can rationalize most if not all of what is on the table:
-the sunsetting of middle-class tax cuts is needed to limit the fiscal impact and prevent the filibuster: the sponsors can't come out and say it but they whisper, don't worry we will keep these provisions;
-the pass-thru, the small business owners say they are more like companies than people so we should be cut a break if corporations get a break;
-on Obamacare, up to 13 million may lose health insurance but that is way better than the 23 million on the table a few months ago;
-on the corporate tax cut and the deficit, insertion of a tax-rate circuit-breaker if the postulated economic growth does it materialize address the hell-in-a-handbasket doomsday-type concerns about the deficit.
What I can't understand is the National business case for all this. Corporations are doing great. When CEOs were asked by Wilbur Ross if they were gearing up investments for the tax bill arrival, the silence was resounding; who needs a tax bill?
Yet the middle class is suffering. People without college degrees in large numbers are adrift, underemployed, experiencing wage stagnation and in social crisis, not marrying in historic numbers and suffering from addictions. We have a significant and dangerous social disconnect in this country and our leaders are preoccupied with their one-trick pony of tax rates. A business axiom is, "people are our most important asset." A simple idea for our Nation is to invest in our people.
4
If anyone watched the CNN debate last night over the tax bill, you saw the personification of the evils of this proposal. Ted Cruz (who may be the single most objectionable public figure I have ever encountered, other than Trump) and Tim Scott babbled, lied, prevaricated and obscured for 90 minutes, even drowning out Bernie Sanders, which is hard to do. The one female, Maria Cantwell, could hardly get a word in edgewise, but made the most salient point of all: economic growth depends upon putting money in the hands of the low and middle class households, not the investor class who simply watch their already sizable investments grow. The GOP tax bill, she insisted, is the worst possible solution for the vast majority of citizens.
But as I said, she was mostly drowned out by three men braying like jackasses. The CNN moderators, normally respected journalists, could not control the deluge of bilge coming from Cruz especially, who seems to take perverse pleasure in burying any thought in complete and useless blather.
8
Is this the economic version of driving drunk through the US landscape? This is nuts.
8
EVEN WORSE!
It’s like driving BLIND!
4
The Republican party is essentially requiring middle class and working families to underwrite the cost of a new jet airplane for Sheldon Adelson and a new villa for the Koch Brothers with their "Tax Plan ". Their donor class' wish list is their guiding principle. Deficit spending- only bad if done during a democratic administration, increased taxes for he middle class and working families - someone has to pay for Paul Ryan's and Pat Toomey's donors wish list. As Paul Krugman aptly called it yesterday ,"The Greatest Tax Scam in History". The cost $1.5 trillion added to the deficit and increased taxes for anyone below the top 1% in income. This is Trump's and the complicit Republican Congress's holiday gift to their billionaire and millionaire donors. The rest of us get Koch Brothers' coal in our stockings.
4
This whole thing is horrifying but all the in-power GOP don't worry about our fears about the future they are creating for non-wealthy Americans. Susan Collins still cares, I think, and I used to believe that Lisa Murkowski did until I understood that she's a holdout only until she gains permission to destroy the Alaskan wildlife refuge lands through drilling. John McCain may still be able to swoop in like Superman and stop this thing but we'll have to wait and see. The painful thing is knowing that most GOP representatives do not care to protect a reasonably safe life for so many Americans who depend on them to do so.
6
They win the battle and lose the war.
The rich are getting richer.
But America is getting more and more like second world country with poverty and poor education and lack of healthcare.
There are states with black infant mortality worse than Botswana.
And we are the richest industrialized country on the planet GDP / capita.
And the billionaires will never even spend all the extra money they accumulate.
6
Pardon? Botswana’s infant mortality rate is the lowest in Africa. Five seconds on Google could make a big difference for you.
1
@Melinda Mueller,
Thanks, I am very familiar with those numbers.
About 9 for Botswana on one CIA World Fact Book list and 30 on another CIA World Fact Book list.
But think of what you are saying. It is ok because Botswana is the best of third world Africa instead of saying the richest industrialized country on the planet should be one of the best like Hong Kong or Sweden or Japan.
That is sad.
Congratulations, Senator Collins. This tax bill will be your legacy. Trusting the Republican leadership to take steps in the future when you sell your soul today is ill-advised.. Bad policy with severe budgetary implications. Expansionary tax policy in a time of expansion is inflationary. Destroying graduate school education does not make America great. The plan is convoluted, poorly put-together, not fully vetted, and not supported by most trained economists. What could go wrong?
8
The Republicans are either divorced from reality or the American people are too uninformed or just unconcerned to care. My guess is that it's the later. We deserve what we get which in this case will be an even larger deficit, the further erosion of the social safety net and even more transfers of wealth to the wealthy.
It's pitiful....
5
This has all the ingredients of a RICO violation; but, since it is Congress it won't apply. Have you noticed of late nobody is proclaiming what an "Exceptional Nation" we are. It is hard to do that when the odor of a cesspool wafts off Capitol Hill.
7
Yes, I agree...as so many other commenters have indicated, the real goal here is to gut medicaid, SS, etc. So, in a few years when we have run the deficit up some more, the repubs will do a slash and burn on the entitlements. They are truly shameless and despicable.
5
If the moronic irresponsible Democrats participated in the crafting of legislation, instead of automatically voting NO, they would not put the Administration and the GOP in these binds, where they have to make any concession jut to get one or two votes.
Where have you been.
Republicans don't work with Democrats. They move goalposts and serve their wealthy donors. They are not interested in the welfare of the country. They are giving themselves and Trump yuge tax breaks.
3
The idea that Trump is in this for the money is ridiculous. And as to being the party of the rich, unfortunately the Dems are now that party. Most super wealthy support Dems. Trumpistas tend to be middle class or less. The times when the Dems were the party of the worker are long gone. Hillary had tepid small rallies, but had enthusiastic and profitable support from bankers and the wealthy, while Trump had the enthusiasm of the common man. Also don't confuse Trumpism with traditional GOP
America could use sensible tax reforms which protect families, and provide tax relief for parents supporting college and universities.
3
One more nail in the coffin of Democracy in The United States of America.
I hope operatives for the International Mafia Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/Radical religion Good Old Boys' Cabal enjoy their "christmas", knowing that they are also helping destroy world order.
Why? Why would they want to do this? The Mafia has no allegiance. The operatives who do their bidding now will have their lives destroyed right along with the rest of us.
The New York Times is tweeting senators to vote NO! Every single American who values their lives, and the lives of their children and grandchildren, will take time RIGHT NOW to call, e-mail-write, post on facebook and other social media and/or tweet to tell OUR senators to VOTE NO on this giveaway to the Robber Barons who would destroy us.
Here is the contact information:
https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
https://www.house.gov/representatives\
7
No matter how you cut it our taxes are grossly excessive and for one thing we need to stop warring all over the world.
What are we afraid? We simply isolate those Muslim countries until they learn to behave.
Go look at the northern European countries like Denmark, Netherlans, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, and Germany.
Government works.
They have better schools and healthcare.
They don't have the poverty we have.
Germany is known for manufacturing and they have faced the same 35 years of China and globalization.
Germany doesn't have the laid off factory workers and the opioid crisis we have.
8
Tax rates for the richest were 90%+ until 1963, 70%+ until 1981. In 1982 Reagan got them down to 50%, 1987 to 38%, 1988 28%, at which point we had a huge market crash, like we usually do during Republican bubbles (1988, 2008).
Income inequality was less than a 10th of what it is now. Perhaps allowing predators to keep all their money is a motivation to hoard, offshore, buy expensive luxuries (& real estate, where Trump needed Russian oligarchs to stay afloat).
The first Bush edged them up and lost to Clinton, who raised them to 39.6% in 1993 and restored the economy, proving trickle-down didn't work. He was stuck, like Obama, with a unified opposition but did the best he could, which resulted in a lot of victim blaming of Democrats, like usual. Of course, his inability to behave himself around women didn't help.
Bush 2 started to get them back down (to 35%) in 2003, along with starting two unfunded wars that cost trillions, made us anathema around the world, recruiting for ISIS, declaring victory while failing to clean up the mess we made (sewage, no power, etc.), giving Saudis lots of weapons, and ended up with an unholy crash in 2007-8.
Obama, once again stuck with unified opposition, finally got the recovery going and the rate back up to 39.6%.
Now the Republicans want to play the same sorry tune, but now they want to criminalize poverty, let the sick die, and jail/suppress opposition.
4
There is a good case to again rally behind "no taxation without representation" and send the tea party packing.
3
If you don't vote and bring every sane person you can in every single election against these monsters it will get worse.
2
Seems like a whole lot of coastal Boomers are going to be looking for apartments in cities pushing the poor and working-class to the burbs. It's stealing the life savings and the major investment of the vast majority of boomers just as we all retire.
3
"Republican senators have a choice. They can follow the will of their donors and vote to take money from the middle class and give it to the wealthiest people in the world. Or they can vote no, to protect the public and the financial health of the government. There’s no compromise on that."
It is to laugh. Or, more appropriately, to cry. Republican Senators (or Congressmen, for that matter) have no interest in protecting the public and the financial health of the government. Their rich donors are telling them to jump, and they are saying: "How high?" As to the financial health of the government, please try to remember that most of those clowns were elected by people inspired by Grover Norquist's 2001 statement: "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."
Folks, Congressional Republicans are drawing the water for that as we speak.
9
Your narrative is getting old. I am lower middle class and in favor of this bill. It is time to quit taxing incomes twice, lower the cost of doing business in the USA, ensure competitive markets, and promote growth and job creation. Then maybe I can get a job
Why is this so hard for you to understand? Or even debate thoughtfully?
I had my own small manufacturing business for 13 years.
The only thing that would make me hire or invest was more demand.
And there is plenty of money available for investment.
Any tax cuts went into my pocket for a new BMW and European vacations.
What we need is government retraining of workers for high-tech manufacturing.
Look at Germany. They are known for manufacturing and they have faced the same 35 years of China and globalization we have. They don't have the laid off factory workers and opioid crisis we do.
Stop buying the Republican trickle-down Kool-Aid. 35 years of Reaganomics, giving the rich like me more money and not investing in education and healthcare, is why you don't have a job.
9
Taxing income twice: you mean like the Federal government taxing income that was already taxed at the state and local level?
5
On display: the incomprehension of a Trump supporter.
Corporations are not going to hire more people or raise wages with these tax cuts. If they needed more employees they would have been hired. This windfall is going to be spent on stock buybacks, shareholder dividends, and executive bonuses. Oh... also on mergers and acquisitions which will result in "synergies." You know what that is, don't you? That's cost savings realized by laying off overlapping and redundant workers.
Wake up.
5
Not only should Republicans not pass this tax bill, they should pass legislation to undo Citizen's United thereby freeing them of their servitude to their donors and giving them more opportunity to serve their constituents.
5
They don't want to be free of their servitude to their donors. Without them, they don't get elected.
2
Republicans regret that they have but one country to give for their political lives (apologies to the memory of Nathan Hale).
4
I am an owner of a small mom and pop business. I have been burdened with taxes that have hampered my ability to hire new employees and expand. Bravo for the 17.4 deduction. It will help. Often when you help the middle class you also help the rich. But helping the rich should not be a bar to helping the middle-class.
I also had my own small business.
The only thing that would make me hire more people or invest was more demand.
And there is plenty of money at low interest rates for investment.
Tax cuts just went in my pocket for a new BMW and European vacations.
5
I grew up believing in the goodness of people... particularly those elected to protect us. The entire Trump era is the most disheartening dose of reality. @GOP is complicit. I pray 2018 is their year of reckoning!
7
Had I ever thought the once-respected New York Times would lower itself to crusading against the poor worker and more jobs? Not really, until during the Reagan era when the company seemed saddened at the Reagan jobs boom.
But you guys ALREADY hate everything about Senate Republicans and this bill. So for you to even bother saying how you hate this additional change is like a man jumping back into a swimming pool that he'd just climbed out of purely to ensure that he was wet enough.
I had my own small business for 13 years.
The only thing that would make me hire or invest was more demand.
And there is plenty of money at low interest rates for investment.
Any tax cuts just went in my pocket for a new BMW and European vacations.
You need to stop drinking the Reaganomics Kool-Aid. Look at Germany. They are known for manufacturing. They have faced the same 35 years of China and globalization. They don't have the same laid off factory workers and opioid crisis we have.
Reagan cut taxes and gave us a huge deficit. Clinton raised taxes and balanced the budget and we had even more jobs than with Reagan.
Bush gave us more "tax cuts for the job creators" and only 3 million jobs and gave Obama a whopping $1.4 trillion deficit.
Obama put that tax back and gave us the "jobs killing" Obama-care and we got 10 million jobs. 16 million really but 6 million were jobs that came back after the greatest recession since the Great Depression. And Obama reduced the deficit by almost 2/3 to $550 billion.
If that had been a Republican, Fox News would have been shouting it to the rooftops.
We talk about the similarities between Trump and Brexit. The US and UK have had the same 35 years of Reaganomics / Thatcherism. Wall St. and the City have gotten enormously wealthy. And both the US and UK have Rupert Murdoch.
Instead of cutting my taxes and making me richer, we should have been investing in education, job training, and healthcare.
6
So fun to watch Dem ideas, Dem values, imploding from the will of the people. Enjoy!
Says an affluent burb-ensconced resident jeering at those who have concerns other than a UGE securities portfolio and the second home at Tahoe.
1
Will of the People?
The people are against this!
3
The millions of Americans whose tax and health insurance premiums will rise under this horrific piece of legislation were not "forgotten" at all. Having fulfilled the purpose of electing this deceitful monster they are now simply being ignored by him and the gutless lackeys who serve him in congress. It should come as no surprise that the only legislative achievement Trump has this year is a bill crafted to serve his own best interests. Merry Christmas!
3
We, as American citizens, can continue to wail and gnash our teeth about the ridiculous actions (and blatant inactions) produced by a terminally polarized two Party political landscape.
Or, we The People, can take charge of that mess, and start at Step One toward creation of a “Third Party” and - I strongly suggest - a Constitutional Amendment that can return our Republic to its roots.
Step Two:
Let’s get going on changing to a Parliamentary System of electoral government. Where the extreme views of the Right and Left Wings must be reconciled with pragmatic solutions.
It’s the only way to restore sanity, and to enable true representation of and by The People.
2
This is the Star Chamber on steroids. Making laws in secret for the wealthy. To think we'd probably be better off if they just left taxes for the 99% untouched. But then who would pay the wealthy? Despicable.
6
The effects of this tax bill will not become clear until after the 2018 elections. It will take at least until after the April 15 filing date for the 2018 tax returns. But there will come a time, after this tax bill has been law for several years, when it will dawn on many of the Republican base that they have been duped. They will slowly realize that Fox News is not news but only propoganda, that tax cuts for the wealthy do not generate jobs, and that the Republicans they voted into office don’t care about their lives. For them, the fog will lift. Some, such as those who are blinded by their hatred of minorities, will never admit to themselves that they have been had.
2
Republican "plan" or scam as it should more reasonably be called will crater the lives of the middle class and impoverished people, now and later. They rush to do their evil deeds in the dark behind closed doors for fear we will all revolt at their duplicity and groveling to rich corrupt donors. Our transition to a corrupt oligarchy is almost complete. My question is this you evil wealthy cretins: who do you think will be able to afford anything once you get done pillaging the economy? True drivers of the economy are the masses, not the cavier slurping private jet owners that inherited mommy and daddy's wealth and haven't worked a day in their lives. Shame on all of you.
4
If this tax 'reform' passes, the thought of a strutting, preening and smirking Donald Trump will be enough to do me in.
NOT my president
8
REPUBLICANS: DESTROY THYSELVES
Vote against the bill, and you become the party that cannot govern.
Vote for the bill, and become a target for class warfare.
Either way, this caricature of Republican oppositionism and donor-feeding frenzy will destroy a party that needs destruction.
Go ahead: knock yourselves out!
6
The Oligarchs have won without a fight.
Our fate was sealed whe there was no accountability after the Great Recession.
The perpetrators were showered with huge rewards.
We are now:
The American Oligarchy Inc.
Donald Trump
President and CEO
Paul Ryan & Mitch McConnell
Transition Architects and Partners
3
Isn't that a good thing for the left? I thought we loved socialist and communist type of rule?
I am a retired middle class person who uses tax deductions. If the standard deductio is increased (more tha what senate proposes), I will not bother to worry about tax deduction an probably rent an apartment than own a house.
I also believe that Corporate taxes need to be reduced to be competitive in today's world where technology is fungible. What we should highlight is that the past tax cuts were spent by corporations to invest abroad because care only abut their stock holders, not employees. We should emphasize tax cuts directed to increase productivity of American workers (not building luxury hotels an golf courses). So use Kennedy approach for tax cuts for R&D and accelerated depreciation for investment in porductivity equipment. Depreciation only for manufacturing buildings (at least 80% for manufacturing or R&D, no depreciation for luxury hotels am private planes, etc. No business deductions for entertainment of customers, or private planes.
2
The image tells the story. This is the way our world ends, not with a whimper or a bang but with outright treachery to the human ideal by Republicans complicit with the powerful and the wealthy against regular hardworking citizens. Those who don't have the power and wealth of their donors are outright ignored. "The American people" have made their wants and needs clear, but they can't pay for power and influence, so they don't have a voice.
I find this terrifying. I've hoped and hope that these destructive powerful kleptocrats could be stopped from dismantling my country, making it small and mean and helping other countries profit from this narrow focus on helping only those who already have more than they need.
Next stop, using the deficit reduction laws to dismantle Social Security and Medicare. 19th century robber barrons, her we come.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
4
So, the next strategic step is obvious...............BOYCOTTS!
That should starve the rich as they feast on our money.
5
This not need be the case if a few Democrats are willing to work with Republicans! Blame the poisonous political atmosphere that this editorial board promotes, day in and day out!
1
Right. Republicans are willing to work with Democrats. Tell me another.
Now Trump can leave all his billions to his children. Let's have his tax returns.
Mnuchin is a saint, and his dollybird isn't in it for what she can get. Those planes we paid for ... just look at that picture with the money. Does that look like a guy working for all of us, or fthe benefits of having enough wealth to attract a gal who has reached the highest level of the oldest profession.
Democrats have always been willing to try to work with Republicans, but they have learned the hard way that the goalposts always move to the right.
2
Yeah, sure. “Work with republicans”. (The current crop)
That’s the same as if the Johns and the Management of a house of ill repute “worked together” to make sure that the service providers have 10 minute refreshment breaks after each round.
2
Yes, it's the fault of those pesky tax and spend Democrats that Republicans are creating this tax plan. The Republicans deliberately opposed every effort by Obama to meet them half way and they refused to cooperate, determined to prevent him from accomplishing anything to limit his administration to one term. They severely restricted government funding, which continues to affect the military, and refused to help the recovery with desperately needed infrastructure projects that likely would have helped the people who elected Trump. It's all the fault of the Democrats. Maybe the Republicans have been ignoring reality as well as misrepresenting it for so long that they really have lost their minds.
3
It's heartbreaking to realize the Senate is acting to pass laws to willingly harm me, a fellow American. They're doing this consciously, not to make their constituents' lives better, but to placate the already privileged donor class. Since they're overwhelmingly millionaires anyway, it won't touch them or their children, as their passed-down wealth will be protected. To my own senator Cory Booker I say please fight this. To John McCain, Susan Collins, and Lisa Murkowski: you have the power in your vote to change my life. Let it be for the better.
11
The NY Times editorial board lecturing us on tax reform is like having Al Franken giving a speech on hugging etiquette. We ain't buyin it.
The alternative to a fact is a lie. There are no alternative facts.
Shutting down the facts does not make them untrue. You will eventually figure this out as reaching for the worst in people reaches its degrading and degraded end.
Making America Small and Mean, Making America Last
5
Excellent rebuttal.
If we were in a 5th grade class and the substitute teacher left the class unsupervised.
4
TrumpTax rules - or will, shortly...
Not even a pretext of an investment tax credit - or some other credible way to ensure that lower tax rates ensure more capital and human investment, and tax receipts...
What the GOP is doing at the behest of its donors is far more damaging than anything anybody did at the behest of "the Russians", in the past several years...
A financial market pop will be contrived, proving the righteousness of this redistributionist travesty - for several weeks...
Cryptocoins will rain down upon us this holiday season - each more valuable and exclusive than the other...
Perhaps some small denominations being tossed from sleds ridden down Pennsylvania Avenue or Broadway - by Cabinet officials and their significant others...
Sometime - within 45 and 90 days from now - smart money will start positioning to short the cryptocurrency market...
After they've convinced enough folks to trade real currency for it...
4
What happened to "No Taxation Without Representation"? I'm not feeling particularly represented at the moment.
8
So, ultimately this will make most Americans poorer, those on the bottom dying earlier because they will no longer be able to get health care. Then in a few years, probably before 2025 when it becomes clear that the U.S. is in deep debt (except for the 1%), Americans like me that are on Social Security and Medicare will lose that, and probably my home, and will have to pay $10,000 to $20,000 per year for health care. It's the gutter for me and dying in the streets along with tens of millions of other Americans. I grew up poor and lifted myself up to a professor at UC, Berkeley, but the anti-American Republicans could very well end my life and lifeway that I paid for myself all my life. This is what the GOP has wanted for decades, and it will now become reality.
6
I agree with you except for one thing, your health care will cost more than $20k per year.
Call the Republican Senators and tell them to vote NO on this tax cut that is horrible for the U.S.
I've been calling their offices, and I can tell you that some of the aids(if you can reach them) are brainwashed right-wingers and unpleasant to speak to. Make sure you have a City and zip code for their state. They feel only their constituents have the right to call them, but their votes affect people in all the states.
6
I feel as though in a dream with the goings on in my country each day. Where are the opposition voices? Chuck? Nancy?
5
No, Editorial Board, Republicans senators don't have a choice at all. There is only one way they'll vote, and it won't be in the best interests of middle class Americans. They owe their seats to their donors, and to them they'll be faithful. The back-and-forth posturing this week is for show only. The Republican senators will vote for the interests of those who elected them -- the 1%.
7
Most critics miss an obvious but potentially huge death tax that US middle, and increasingly those who frugally have husbanded their money in lower classes, must pay…now and still in the future. Why no comments? This, while in the current proposal, estates of the truly rich will get off scot free. What I’m referring to is the “catch up” tax at death on heavily promoted 401k or IRA retirement accounts that mainly for middle and lower class workers today total more than $8 trillion. Many such accounts have appreciated "nicely" while invested in such as S&P500 funds. In New York, with its 8.8% income tax, this could mean about a 40% tax of such remaining assets at death in a fund valued at more than $192,000, most assuredly a notable death taxed…and up to nearly 50% at higher individual fund values. Remember, as of now for these assets, there also unfairly is no capital gains treatment on investment increases in paid in values either, as there clearly should be, and as wealthy people more typically pay.
Such taxed funds could be needed for example to help support grandkids seeking first generation college education to lift a family’s future prospects. Not nice, not fair, blatantly class discriminatory.
1
hmmm.
Right now, you don't pay any tax on inheritance below $5.45 million.
$5.45 million is not taxes.
You are not taxed on an inheritance below nearly five and a half million dollars.
I'm repeatin this because your image of frugality and sacrifice makes no sense when you know the actual amount of tax-exempt inheritance. And if you think people like Mr. Trump scrimped and saved, think again. He cheated and lied and stole from contractors, and when he was near bankrupt he got an allowance of $375,000 per month (hard times, right) and was too big to bankrupt, and Russian oligarchs stepped in with investments. Nice reason to promote another country's interest over ours, isn't it.
That's enough money for anyone to thrive for a lifetime.
2
Don't worry about our death taxes. We will have to use all the money from our 401ks to pay for the loss of social security and medicare as both of those pay outs will be used to lower the deficit. We can only hope we have enough to pay for our own medical bills. Our kids are on their own and need to go to the voting booths enmasse to reverse the damage done.
To Our Senators and Representatives:
If you have doubts, vote no.
If you don’t think you have had enough time to fully digest the contents of the respective bills, vote no.
If you believe the benefits of the bill may not be fairly implemented, vote no.
If you believe the bill does not help create a more perfect Union, vote no.
If the bill does not create a more stable long-time economy, vote no.
If you love the people of our great nation, vote no.
5
A nice little commentary by the Times editors aimed at Times readers, mostly firm Democrats. No doubt it'll make them feel good about themselves and perhaps continue their subscriptions. Maybe that's the only objective? But, like about everything coming out of the left, it isn't going to reach the voters who matter, those leaning Republican who possibly could be influenced to rethink their choice. (Trying to reach firm Republicans, undecideds or potential Democrat voters too lazy to show up at the polls is a fool's errand.) Unless/until the Democratic Party develops messages for these voters and focus on delivering them, all it can do is talk to itself and remain a loser. Republican strategists, with little other than lies to work with, have messages which relate to the people they need to reach. Democrats, with a lot of actual facts to work with, seem helpless.
1
If you are not rich. Well.... it’s going to be tough.
3
I doubt even the Greeks could have written a better tragedy.
6
Corker apparently has already folded and voted this obscenity out of the Senate Budget Committee so don't hold your breath that he will be a firewall.
And Nancy Pelosi was actually cut off by Chuck Todd when she tried to explain the horrors of this tax bill. With friends like this (MSNBC for goodness sakes!) who needs enemies?
8
"Or they can vote no, to protect the public and the financial health of the government. " Financial health of the government ? Where was the concern of the NYT Editorial Board when Obama ran 4 of the 5 largest deficits in US history - each one greater than $ 1 tn ? Did they complain when Obama borrowed more than $10 tn - more than every President who came before him - combined !!
Every income group gets a tax cut - at least for the next 10 years. You get the same analysis whether listening the conservative Tax Foundation or liberal CBPP. The article is actually being misleading in pointing out the increases in taxes for those earning less than $75,000 in the JCT analysis. This increase is almost entirely due to the impact of the Obamacare mandate repeal - which the article redundantly points out a second time. The JCT included this in their tax analysis - because someone who chooses not to get insurance in Obamacare also doesn't get the tax subsidy to go with it. But that's not really a tax increase on the poor the way the article is depicting it.
Yes, there are varying perspectives among the GOP. Some focus on the deficit while others want more generous tax cuts. This shouldn't be too surprising. There were varied viewpoints among liberals in passing Obamacare. But the bottom line is that we are moving forward to the biggest tax reform since Reagan 1986. It should spur economic growth and jobs.
2
How soon people forget the Great Recession brought to you by George W. Bush.
5
" It should spur economic growth and jobs."
Yes, a tax overhaul should do those things, but time and time again the real numbers have shown that trickle down doesn't work as Republican advertise it will. It's a gift to the very wealthy, period, a group that most Senators already belong to.
4
Rob the poor to feed rich greed. So Ivy League!!!!!
1
Take the pledge - always vote but never vote for anyone that votes for this incredibly vile bill.
13
When are we balancing the budget?
4
The moment the GOP is finally dead and buried. What takes its place will be a more realistic party that isn't ginning up divisions and running on racism.
2
The GOP have made the rich look bad with their over-reaching tax plan. I am sure the rich would rather quietly huddle with their billions. Did you know the Koch Bros are reported to have 87 billion? (Dark Money by Jane Meyer)
5
When the Editorial Board commits itself to "Trump Resistance" it undermines it's credibility for "independent" fair analysis of public policies.
4
What elements of the OpEd do you disagree with?
There's nothing "unfair" about pointing out Trump's daily idiocies. If you don't want negative reporting on Trump, then have him stop doing stupid stuff.
2
It seems to me there is much less outrage about the tax bill in the NYT and in the streets than was expressed during the attempt to repeal the ACA. Could it be that the Democratic establishment, dominated by the upper 10%, is quieter because they will also benefit from this wealth transfer from the 90%, while the ACA repeal would have damaged their health insurance donors? To quote Randy Newman, "...gee, maybe it's the money."
4
this the eqivilent buy a little now-pay much more later.For those w/large medical expense this a body blow.as the population ages it only get worse.
3
Future Debts to cover Social Security and Medicare are approximately $6 trillion dollars. This is on top of another $2 trillion to cover expenses for veterans injured in Iraq and Afghanistan.
None of these $8 trillion in future obligations are part of the discussion.
After years and years of public statements about "The National Debt," why is there no debate Congress and the Senate about our REAL financial responsibility.
8
And let’s all realize the huge distinction between Social Security/Medicare disbursement and the crushing costs of perpetual - wholly optional - American war waging.
The recipients of S/S and Medicare paid into those programs all or most of their lives. Paid for.
The recipients of Veterans benefits - current and for 60 or 70 years after service - have been arbitrarily created by our so-called “leadership”.
We need a political funding amendment in our constitution. All of this nonsense has been possible because of the the disastrous Citizens United ruling.
4
It's time for another tax revolt. No tea to throw in Boston Harbor, but the bottom 99% should stop paying until the government listens to the will of the People.
1
It's time to drug test all politicians because it's obvious the one's in charge are out of their collective minds.
3
Good bye, America. So long, Democracy. Hello, Nostalgia for Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. And, in the spirit of Fox News, what about Trump's tax returns?
3
good riddance , the deficit would be cut by 2 thirds!
This is class warfare, pure and simple.
5
Somehow. Someday. The method and the time the Republican Party will eventually accept that it deserves it's just deserts. More specifically, the vote count on Nov. 6, 2018.
1
So desperate for a "win," they would vote for mass public executions of working and elderly poor if needed to advance their "agenda." Sad to see a proud nation's demise as a light for the rest of the world at their hands.
3
How did everything get so ugly? Ugly laws, ugly politics, ugly feelings - from sea to shining sea.
Happy holidays? Hard to do this year.
3
Ron Johnson has already said he wants more relief personally from the bill to reduce the tax burden he faces on his plastic sheeting business. How much more bare faced can you be?
2
Five or ten million people marching on the Capital would stop this bill.
The only thing these Slaves of the donor class fear more is their very existence on this planet.
2
I think that the only possibility of the GOP being saved from annihilation in 2018 is if their ridiculous tax plan does NOT pass.
If it does pass, they're toast.
3
Enough “regular people” are not involved in these economic issues, in part because of the lack of debate or process, and in part because of ignorance of particulars. But, it may not matter until later, when frustration, hardship and worse start to erode the comfort of non participation in the economic issues. By then, perhaps only a more violent resistance will be left for those most adversely impacted by the ever growing national income disparities!
I see the Republicans giving it everything they've got for the mega-wealthy, and the Democrats trying to leverage their chips to save the Dreamers. Dreamers are, no matter how photogenic and heart-rending, not American citizens. So, is any politician anywhere, remotely thinking about something that will help the actual Americans out here in fentanyl overdosed, underemployed, can't afford health-care, pensionless, flyover country?
I thought not.
3
We the Donors of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Plutocracy, establish Our Superiority, insure our own Tranquility, provide for the common defence contractors, promote corporate Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Wealth to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Republican Congress.
3
Call me the eternal optimist but I hope our more sensible Republical leaders (that's you Senator Collins and Senator McCain) will not take the bait and vote against this awful bill. America is counting on you.
3
Ten-to-one the holdouts cave, to get a "win" "for the good of the party": a morally bankrupt party that cements its immorality with this tax bill.
Though the R's know they'll likely lose the Congress in 2018, that is to their advantage in the long run. The Democrats will be hobbled by these tax cuts (there won't be the votes to reverse them, either, given the D's markers out to the big money as well as the R's) and the recession that inevitably ensues from these irresponsible tax cuts (just like 1990 after Reagan/Bush I and 2008 after W) will just - wait for it - require cuts to SS, Medicare and Medicaid, because we're broke and lookee here, the debt! The debt! The deficit! The deficit!
Read a very insightful and persuasive article by Bruce Bartlett, a sane and objective Republican budget whiz who strangely believes in effective and responsible government, in the Guardian about this stairstep downward progression in the nation's fiscal ills and how it plays into the Ayn Randist/Grover Norquist ego and greed fantasy. Republican Tax Cuts Will Hurt Americans, and Democrats Will Pay the Price https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/20/republican-tax-cut...
2
Just heard Lankford give a tortured, risible defense of the bill, that is STILL being finagled with, its passage out of committee notwithstanding.
Despite all the talk about the principles held by these guys, the only ones that count are serving their rich paymasters.
1
Madness and yet it seems that these charlatans were voted in were they not. "I love the poorly educated."
How many Americans do the Congressional elephants want to die early?
The want healthcare to fail, want to bankrupt families, want to destroy the federal agency that goes after polluting corporations which have not qualm about causing cancer.
Is their goal to create a society of a few haves and hundreds of millions of have nots? Will the prisons that ICE will build to hold illegal immigrants turn into camps to hold anyone who disagrees with the policies of destruction?
Will McConnell be satisfied with being a titled a duke if Trump proclaims himself king, just as Napoleon proclaimed himself Emperor?
1
There seems to be a pattern here.
In order to obtain "fake news", Republicans these days are creating it themselves.
First it was the WP robocall and then the infiltration of a Veritas Project militant. And now this.
Because WHY would they let the middle class tax cut expire after ten years, and then replace it with a tax increase?
They clearly hope to control DC for the next eight years, and seem to be supposing that after a second Trump term, Democrats may win the elections, and IF by then the American people forgot WHO passed the bill, a decade earlier, that will all of a sudden increase their taxes, they'll suppose it's the Democrats ... so the false notion that Democrats increase taxes on the middle class (Obama repeatedly lowered them, all while increasing them for the wealthiest 1%) will then be "proven", in people's minds ...
The Grand Old Party has become the Mean Old Party.
Shame on you GOP!
3
Sheer insanity--there is no other way to describe this bill.
1
A few little people paying more taxes and more for health insurance? Pshaw! They don't deserve help the same way poor, starving, put-upon millionaires and billionaires do....
2
My own lickspittle senators, Perdue and Isakson, refuse to even come to the state of Georgia, much less hold town hall meetings or meet with constituents.
Their doors are only open to donors and the "leaders" who deliver their marching orders. Their constituents are utterly ignored, and the wellbeing of the people who put them in office is never even considered.
There is no excuse, no defense for this bill, from its inception through to its effect on the economy. That is why the Republicans are ramming it down our throats so fast and so hard. They know perfectly well that it will devastate all but the very very wealthy, that it will line their own pockets, and they don't want to answer any questions or face any voters and have to admit it.
It's probably too much to hope that McCain and Collins will save the country from the viciousness of this power grab. But, given the debauched state of our current Congress, it's the only hope we have left.
1
No one should be surprised by the Republicans's depraved behavior. If an arsonist is invited into a home, the owners should not be shocked when the arsonist attempts to torch the place.
1
“This bill would blow a huge hole in the federal budget.”
Correction – there already is a huge hole in the federal budget with annual deficits of almost $700 billion. This bill will make it significantly worse.
Campaigning, Trump promised to eliminate our national debt in eight years. Current estimates put our national debt at $32 Trillion in ten years. Trump and Republicans will own the $32 Trillion!
Does Trump or Republicans care? Apparently not. “This is really about stuffing the pockets of people like Mr. Trump….”
Trump and his deficit hawk Republicans will bankrupt the USA and leave us weak and feeble.
Could this have been part of Russia’s plan when they manipulated our elections to get Trump into office?
We must find a way to hold self-interested Elected Politicians and their staffers, from both parties, personally liable, responsible and accountable for the lies they have told US, their gross mismanagement of our county, our $20.6 T and growing national debt (108% of GDP), and our $100 T in future, unfunded liabilities they forced on US jeopardizing our economic and national security, while benefiting themselves, their staffers, their party and special interest donors.
http://www.usdebtforum.com
2
The American Oligarch Tax Act of 2017 - We are truly living in a time of kleptocracy, kakistocracy, and nihilism.
There's never been a bigger traitor than Putin's little asset in the Oval Office - except the Republicans who choose to keep traitor Trump there while they scheme for their overlords.
5
Once again the Times disingenuously cites tax cut expiration dates as if Congress at the time can’t or won’t simply extend expiring provisions. The expiration dates are merely there for procedural reasons, and the Times knows it.
1
I can't bear it. I feel true despair at the prospect of this bill passing. Between this and DJT's stuffing the judiciary with right-wing zealots, I am as miserable about the state of America's future as it is possible to be. Oh, but then add a North Korean missile that might be able to hit D.C. -- all while the State Department falls to pieces -- and I feel even worse.
2
The GOP needs a donor giveaway. They will rush it through, in hopes no one can figure out the cost, and pray that the President or the next one gets blamed. I am sure that the internet will circulate story after story about how it is Obama's fault or Hilary Clinton's.
Our government of the people, by the people, and for the people has been replaced by the best darn guvmint money can buy.
1
Yes, your honor, it was a bank robbery. Yes, your honor, it was an inside job. Who were the crooks? The insiders and outsiders were all crooks. Prove it, your honor? Sure, their fingerprints were all over the place. Jailtime? No, your honor, they will not serve.
2
They received "assurances" from the president - how quaint.
2
The only way this could get any worse its to put Trump's picture on the cover.
1
Malignant narcissism has been attributed to Donald Trump by cohorts of mental health professionals appalled by his self centered arrogance and grandiosity but it turns out that his moral bankruptcy and self serving conduct is a mirror of the Republican party seeking to maintain their theft of our Nation and its wealth, an egregious crime against humanity deceitfully labeled, conservative ideology. They are shameless criminals, cruel, vindictive, selfish and destructive engaged in unAmerican activities that will destroy the safety net of the financially vulnerable. To call them criminals is insufficient. They are anti American traitors.
2
I'm sure Trump has shared his tax returns with the GOP Senate and House leadership. They must show that he is much poorer than he has let on, and now Republicans in both houses must do everything they can to rescue their dear leader from financial calamity. Trump clearly needs all the tax relief the American people can spare.
How else can we understand such monumental stupidity emanating from the Capitol?
1
No doubt the tax bill will pass. Lawyers and other tax advisors will benefit two ways: Clients will be clamoring for advice on how to take advantage of the latest loophole for partnerships and limited liability companies that pay no taxes now but whose owners will be taxed at 25% -- or even 20% -- instead of the almost 40% they pay now. And the same lawyers and tax advisors, organized as partnerships, will get the same benefit. This is what Republicans call a "win-win."
2
Defeatist I am not.
Usually.
But Republicans will do what they will and, having cast off any shame or concern for their legacy or their country, there is now no limit on what they'll do to get this win, to enrich the rich, to crush the middle.
They are exquisitely aware of their opportunity. Having spent decades abusing the intelligentsia, education generally, the 'Elites" (who or whatever they may be, if not Trump, McConnell, and the powdered and perfumed rest), they know their base is swilling up whatever slop their paid provocateurs in the media and their slavering financial Kochs dish up.
It's a unique moment and they will not fail to use it to the full.
Being Republicans, of course, they've structured things so their base will never know what hit them, or who, until well after the last of the last of these wretched mugs has left Congress or settled into way-too-comfortable-to-argue-anymore paunchy old age.
These people, including my Ohio-bred swine Rob Portman, are soon to sign with their blood a devil's pact from which there is no returning. They do so giddy with anticipation and lust for the immediate financial and political benefit that drives their every decision.
Ironically, they also do so in the hope that whatever Democrat presidency comes will protect them from the very people they seek to bury today.
I kind of hope not.
7
The cumulative disaster needs to be emphasized. Particularly when you add the anticipated "part two", the attack on Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. Add to this the increase in health insurance or healthcare bills for all, directly or indirectly.
Smaller towns will suffer massively as will retirement intensive communities. Anyone with aging parents will experience jeopardy and potential debt. Anyone with an unanticipated medical bill will be damaged. Reduced science and medical research in the U.S. It goes on. All for the 1% and corporations that have no intent of fostering growth in the U.S.
4
What’s sad is, when most people think of vicious robberies the players involved in this tax bill never come to mind yet in reality, they are the most dangerous to the average American by the damages they inflict on families.
1
What these people seem willing, if not eager, to do is sacrifice a delicate system of respect and negotiation, and regard for the intrinsic value of each member of our society for status.
If concentrating material wealth provides lasting solutions to societies' problems, would someone please explain then, why we have fought and killed each other throughout human history as we compete for stuff and status? And, why we still do?
2
Let's face it if this batch of criminals can't pass this bill for their corporate and billionaire donors then those donors will simply fund a new batch of criminals to get the job done. Unfortunately by the time the voters who are the handmaidens of the donors wake up it will be too late.
3
What is the Republican vision for America? A nation of polluted skies, rivers, lakes and oceans, a less publicly educated populace, crushing health care costs, tax policy bias towards people who earn their income leaving almost everyone with less, elimination of social security, military vehicles on every street and every grandma carrying an AR-15 to the grocery store.
A futuristic dystopia of misery. Looks like we're on our Trumpian way.
7
Mitch McConnell has nurtured the image of a master deal maker; first as the obstructionist minority leader and now as the majority leader who will always find a way to send a few million dollars to soften the blow to your constituents. History will not be so kind. McConnell has ensured the Senate will never again be called democracy's greatest deliberative body. What perversion of our constitution allowed 52 senators be convinced a President with 3 million fewer votes and 48 senators representing the majority of US voters should have no say on Healthcare or tax reform. McConnell's legacy will be millions of middle class families worse off after a promised tax cut; seniors bearing the burden of $500 millions in medicare reductions and blatant deceit by the 51 senators who by following McConnell have betrayed their oath, their constituents and the nation's fiscal well being.
3
In an absolute sense this amounts to taxation without representation — a phrase we’ve heard before. The politicians who support thisTso-called “tax reform” are morally bankrupt. This is one more instance of Orwellian double-speak.
3
"This self-imposed [congressional] deadline is intended to give lawmakers and the public as little time as possible to analyze and understand the bill." There is so much to say about the taxation charade being stage-managed by Majority Leader McConnell.
The passage quoted above, however, is the key to this column. Emblematic of our entirely GOP-led national government, this tax debacle is the direct opposite of good, democratic governance by the people and for the people. It only qualifies as government of the people.
1
Hey, none of these bad effects of their bill are unknown to Congress, nor inadvertent. Making life worse for the 99% is acceptable if these “politicians” can satisfy their billionaire backers, who are presumed able to get them re-elected by paying for innumerable ads, distortions, and endorsements.
That’s all there is here: no point looking for mistaken logic or false assumptions. It’s simple venality. Period.
3
It feels like the public is crying in the wilderness over this bill. It is clearly horrible, immoral and utterly disastrous for our future, but are Republicans listening to the 70% of Americans who stand appalled at this bill? Absolutely not. They are only listening to their .01% donors. They have no shame and no concern for even their own constituents. So after we write these pitiful comments, call and write our legislators, go to town meetings and contribute to groups trying to promulgate the truth about this highway robbery, what can we do? The GOP takes it's orders from the money and not from the public.
The bitter irony is that Trump won in part by claiming that "elitist " Democrats didn't care about ordinary Americans, and that he would. Well, Mr. President, how well are you fulfilling THAT campaign promise? You support legislation that will enrich you and your cronies by stealing money from those same ordinary Americans. How is that not the epitome of elitism?
3
And with the cash the billionaires save, they'll continue to buy the votes of the working stiffs that they duped in 2016, by selling a false shell of "the American Dream" and using schoolyard name-calling to vilify the only Party that cares for them. Dark money, indeed.
1
It is a travesty that Democrats have absolutely no say in this horrid tax reform bill that will take years to unravel after the republicans lose power in the next recession (2019 or 2020). I still haven't given up hope that the few sensible republican senators left will stand up for the American people, but maybe I am just having wishful thinking. How they can tout this as a middle class tax relief is amazing, hope they confess their lying sins to their religious leaders.
4
With Trump in the White House and the best Congress money can buy, the Koch Bros. and their fellow oligarchs are getting their money's worth and enjoying a victory lap. Seriously, what more could they expect?
What do we do? The haggling billionaires are robbing us blind. Just give each of them a blank check and be done with it.
I remember seeing “The Godfather” in the 70’s. It occurred to me then that many of the 1% are criminals.
70% of all pass-through income goes to people in the 1%
Is the most ridiculous economic statement I gave ever read, crafted by an "associate" Professor of economics educated from all places, Berkeley.
The vast majority of people in the 1% are blessed with unearned income, not wages and small business profits.
17.4% deduction? Seems like the least we can do to help the middle class. Your pizza guy and dry cleaner are not the 1%, far from it!
I doubt that Republican Senators have the courage to defy Trump and the party. The impact of the tax bill won’t be known until after the 2018 election unless they make it retroactive. Obama was the President of hope - Trump the President of despair. How do party members deal each day with fact that their leader is a dangerous man and liar and a cheat? The Yrump cult is terrifying and the party is in lock step. It does not feel like Christmas- it feels like the end of the civilized world as we know it.
What did you all think would happen? Wait scratch that. This will pass, and yet again the pendulum will swing and Democrats will pick up their scraps and fix things only to be broken in 8 more years. An experiment that I️ think is fading.
There seems to be a great misunderstanding between the importance between those who are Donors versus those who are Voters.
What does the Constitution say and who does it stand for?
Republicans need to remember who they work for and represent.
1
If this bill passes the GOP is toast. No Republican will ever be elected even as dog catcher. Of course we in the underclass will also be toast -- no Medicare, no Medicaid, no Social Security while the billionaires continue to pad their bank accounts. It's pitchfork time.
2
The devil in this tax bill is territorial taxation which will allow multinational corporations to avoid corporate income taxes in the US like never before. Territorial taxation is gold for tax havens and a lump of coal for the middle-to-lower classes.
1
the health and wealth of our country is under attack by the republican party and their donors, this is a disgrace and crisis the lack of ethics, morality, and backbone, no such thing as american and human values with this president, and republican congress.
1
The US congress is engaged in an ancient process, one that has no easy solution: rising economic inequality: "The Great Leveler: Violence and the History of Inequality from the Stone Age to the Twenty-First Century," by Walter Scheidel -- https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10921.html . That book traces the process of the rising economic equality that we now see back to early agrarian economies.
It is not clear whether we have the collective wisdom or strength to find a political solution to what is being done. It may require one of the violent dislocations Scheidel describes. It is equally unclear as to the time frame required for the rest of this political theater unfold. Current trends could persist for a very long time.
Whatever the historical precedents, the current Republican congress appears disinclined to help. They want to "feed the beast."
I have an LLC that operates sober housing for addicts in the early stages of recovery, a drug and alcohol treatment program and a group mental health practice. I never turn patients away for financial reasons. I have given free rent and treatment to hundreds if not thousands of patients. I plow almost all my income back into sober living (four large homes and a former high school). I resent being lumped in with "moguls". BTW... I live in a rural area and this kind of liberal hyperbole (and I am a liberal) is precisely what cost us the election.
What's especially cynical and manipulative about the Republican tax bill is that it lowers taxes a bit for middle-class Americans just long enough to get through the midterm elections, the 2020 race, and the subsequent midterms. Republican lawmakers hope that voters will fall for the line, "See! We reduced your taxes! Vote Republican!" No matter that corporations and the super-rich like Trump are really the big winners here, or that the exploding deficit will endanger entitlements. This is all about fooling enough middle-class Americans into voting Republican in three forthcoming elections. Then in 2025--surprise!--no more tax cut for the middle class, while corporate tax cuts remain permanent. And Obamacare will likely be a casualty of this tax plan. The whole plan is cruel, amoral, and thoroughly typical of Trump and today's Republican Party.
Trumpism and the implications of this tax bill does not make America great again. This, along with the disastrous policies set in motion with the help of the Republicans from health care, to the environment, to tax policy, will disempower the middle class and democratic values. We are loosing what makes America great - a government for the people.
1
The majority leader, Mitch McConnell, is trying to rush the bill to a vote by the end of the week?
Only months ago still being referred to as 'master strategist Mitch McConnell' in the NYT, this reader is happy to note the majority leader has been taken down a peg. Now can't wait to be reading 'utter failure Mitch McConnell' followed by 'former leader Mitch McConnell'. It couldn't happen to a more a richly deserving tortoise.
2
Only seven years since the Citizens United decision, and the plutocracy already owns a major political party. I'm pretty cynical, but even I didn't think it would be that fast. Thanks John Roberts, I think your judicial legacy has now been confirmed.
Republicans, making the rich richer and the poor poorer.
Everything else is a side show to distract from this basic fact.
1
“Republican senators have a choice. They can follow the will of their donors and vote to take money from the middle class and give it to the wealthiest people in the world. Or they can vote no, to protect the public and the financial health of the government. There’s no compromise on that.”
Given this choice, we know what the Trump GOP will do.
1
Where are the Democrats? Practically invisible! Anyone who had even minimal knowledge of the history of the tax debate and of the Republican Party could easily develop a nationwide ad campaign to strike at the heart of their hypocrisy: that deficit spending will ultimately ruin the country.
Where is the toothless DNC? If they want to win this battle, you need to repeatedly hammer the hypocrisy of Republicans in nationwide tv ads over and over. Messaging works, and this should be easy, but once again, the Democrats may as well rollover and wring their hands some more.
1
The two-party system we inherited from the Robber Barons is dead. The current Robber Barons know this. Do you?
1
The middle class and poor will pay higher taxes and loose their benefits, though some may get a few peanuts. The gop donors, wealthy republican congressmen and women, and trump will walk away with massive tax breaks. The deficit will explode. That is what the tax bill means.
When this tax bill passes, and Trump’s rural America supporters actually see their taxes increase, and do not see any trickle-down salary increases come their way, I wonder how Fox and Friends will spin the news to convince them that they are actually better off? There’s a reason Trump said that he “loves the poorly educated.”
Republican senators will march in lockstep in service of their plutocratic donor class and pass this bill, rationalizing all of their theoretical objections or simply turning a blind eye to the havoc this legislation will inflict on the electorate as a whole. Bob Corker will overlook the effect this bill will have on the deficit and forever be exposed as a hypocrite and a fraud. Susan Collins will show that in the end she really doesn't care about the health and well being of the citizens of Maine and sign off on a bill that repeals the individual mandate. Ron Johnson will succumb to Trump's bullying with or without a provision in the bill to benefit his family's pass though business, solidifying his credentials as a senatorial wimp. This is class warfare declared by our Republican government, the outcome of which will be an exacerbation of income inequality and a worsening of the quality of life of millions of Americans.
Of course the tax promises of the campaign were ignored: they were lies so Trump won, get used to it, he will lie a lot moore before this is done; and whether your own individual tax bill goes up or down is irrelevant in the broader scheme of the country’s economy; the crux of the matter is that we are assuming a huge debt so as to give money to those who already have the most: the many will borrow to give to the few ... least in need of our charity, talk about lazy wastrels sponging off the economy, food stamps for the banquet, government assistance for the marinas, robber barons rule OK, get used to it.
1
Anyone who finds that they will be getting a tax increase in the coming year could merely use last year's tax preparation software or other means of filing. In this way the GOP could avoid be labelled liars about the effects of their klepto-scheme.
If our democratic leaders in the Congress cannot sway two or three Republican Senators to vote against this terrible tax bill, they must step aside in the next election and make room for some young, energetic and diverse crowd of Democrats to take this country in a different direction than the way the Republicans in Senate under their leader Mitch McConnell along with their very evil president Trump is dragging this country to a fiery end.
Actually if our Dem. Senators under the leadership of minority leader Chuck Schumer really want to derail this very ugly and horrible bill that only benefits the people like Trump "who controls his real estate,licensing and hospitality empire through more than 500 pass-through businesses according to his lawyers" as you mentioned here,then all they've to do is to convince the Senators from the Blue states and the fiscal conservative leader like John McCain from Arizona to put his "thumb down" again like he did with the repeal of the ACA bill.
Senator Susan Collins from New Hampshire who's not running for her Senate seat next year, has already expressed her strong opinion against this bill.
Now Mr. Schumer has to convince some of the outgoing G.O.P. Senators like Bob Corker of Tennessee and Jeff Flake from Arizona to vote against this anti middle-class bill which will plunge our middle class into misery by 2025 while Trump and other billionaires and millionaires will claim 17.4% deduction on their pass-through income before paying taxes.
Republicans do not care about future generations of poor and middle class. They know future generations of their wealthy donors is secure - that is all they care about.
What will industry demand of their Republican puppets for the next quarter?
1
How brave is John McCain? Is he brave enough to be a leader for the future, to vote "no" on this phony Republican bill as he battles a life threatening illness? He has looked death in the eye, but can he now choose life for the rest of us? Republican arguments are weak, but they hold the power to push the middle class down, delivering an economic sucker punch like a school yard bully. It is fantasy to imagine that anyone will choose to pay rising health insurance premiums while incomes stagnant and decline? When insurance premiums become a "choice" between food, Christmas toys, or payment of high interest rates on credit card bills, what choices will be made with a phony tax "relief" bill that costs everyone more in the end? Exactly who are these Republican donors who control Congress and our lives? Thanks to Citizens United, we may never know. We have yet to see Trump's taxes, to know how he will benefit. McCain, at this terrible time in our nations history, you are our only hope. You may not occupy the WH, but you can have a greater influence and do a far greater good for all, by a "no" vote on the Senate bill. Be A Man for History.
It's the Ultimate Pimpfecta.
Because before it's over for YOU: taxes and fees will actually be higher, local services will suffer, the deficit will grow, and your wages will stagnate.
1
Trump's base wants tax cuts for million- and billionaires, because...
they will win the lottery some day and those cuts will benefit them then.
1
Fasten your seatbelts, its going to be a bumpy ride.
Final proof of the power of the American oligarchy, and the death of American democracy, is spread out for all to see in the actions of the GOP Senators and President Trump.
The research showing that the rich have almost exclusive influence over the final actions of Congress, as embodied in legislation, is now confirmed. See this concise BBC summary of that research: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
If you need a brush-up on the difference between democracy and oligarchy, here it is: There are forms of democratic government, such as a representative democracy (the people exercise their power by voting for representatives) and direct democracy (citizens have direct participation in the decision- and rule-making process). An oligarchy is a form of government in which all power resides with a few people.
America is racing toward the bottom ...
1
This is the height of hypocrisy. McConnell & Ryan shut down government over deficits a few years ago and now they are fully supportive of increasing the budget deficit by $1.5 Trillion that structurally increases the budget deficit on a permanent basis.
1
Even if there was an actual grain of something decent about this indecent bill, it is outweighed by all the garbage it contains and the unrelated dreck that has been attached to it. The Republicans in congress - and Trump - should be ashamed of this proposal; it is to their discredit that they are not. They say they need a win, any win, but this would be a loss for all Americans except for a few renegade right-wing oligarchs at the top of "the 1%." It is un-American in both its conception and in its lack of support for what truly made America great (hint: it wasn't Trump and his oligarchic ways).
I think this bill will pass. There are simply not enough Republicans with a moral compass to vote no and send a signal that it's not tax reform as promised, but a tax cut for the already wealthy at the expense of those who actually work for a living.
Donald Trump is now completely off the rails, denying the access Hollywood tape he apologized for his actually his voice and again claiming President Obama was not born in Hawaii. His continued attacks on the free press is now endangering journalists across the planet and has given other nations run by the strongmen Trump loves the signal to claim anything less than flattering about them is fake news.
This tax bill is simply an attempt at claiming a win by a dismal failure and delusional president cheered on by a congress already complicit in his perfidy desperately trying to look like they can actually govern.
Republican cooperation with an unbalanced man who sees crowds that aren't there, makes things up, calls people names, lies and denies his long time connections with the Russians in any context whether or not it involved collusion is the most dangerous situation this country has faced since the Cuban Missile crisis. Republicans will vote their party over their country every time, but this is beyond anything anyone who knew Trump was mentally ill even considered. An entire political party willing to look the other way as a madman seethes in the White House. It's treason. The bill will pass.
hydThe Middle class is getting taken to the wood shed once again.
Corporate Democrats just had have Hillary on the ticket.
Actually they love the tax cut part it's all that Crude Trump talk they don't like.
The public has plenty of time to study and analyze the bill until November 2018. It can decide to clean up House and Senate so that bills like that, voted on like that never happen again.
Yes, Virginia, there is a way.
1
Call Congress: 202-224-3121. (Please put the number in your phone, and call often.)
Tell you representatives that blowing a nearly $2 trillion hole in the deficit is not a good idea when we are not getting either infrastructure, solar panels on every rooftop, or universal healthcare.
We get the government we deserve.
I don't know how this horrid and despicable bill will affect me directly. My taxes my go up a bit or down a bit, who knows. And who cares. What's clear is that many people will suffer a great deal in order to fatten the already fattest of wallets. Our "president" calls this "beautiful." Those who believed his "I alone can solve this" claims will blame democrats for their misfortune. I know the republicans' rich donors demand this but I simply cannot fathom how any human being, republican or not, could vote for such a cruel, evil, and flawed bill. Shame on them all.
The NYT and WAPO are giving appropriate coverage of his tax "reform" scandal, just as they did to candidate Trump and his questionable past. Cable news does report about the "Trump Family Tax Cut Act of 2017" but is often distracted by Trump Tweets and the never ending Russiagate and the passing parade of talking heads.
What is missing is vocal opposition from Chuck, Nancy and their Democratic friends. Sure, they make tepid statements in opposition, but if properly orchestrated and detailed the Democrats could have motivated voter opposition as was done against Obamacare repeal. It was voter presence at town halls that won the day then, but that victory is truly fleeting as Trump Tax reform will bury affordable healthcare.
Trump Tax will kill Obamacare, the housing market, higher education,the budget while achieving a perverse MAGA: making America greedy again as the poor and middle class will subsidize the lifestyle of Trump and friends.
And Chuck and Nancy are not screaming opposition. I guess their Wall Street donors have more sway than their voting constituencies. Yes, Democrats are in the minority, but they don't have to be a silent minority. Scream loud enough and the voters will scream with you
Sad, needless self mutilation of the republic's future. Why, with low interest on capital, low unemployment, a stable although slow economy, and a widening economic gap, do our leaders want to do this? Politics, their addiction to power, and fear of failure. Oh, and greed.
The moguls didn't get Trump and the Repub Congress elected so the little people are getting what they voted for.
You lost me in the first sentence - it’s not “enormously unpopular” and it’s not “astounding.” Why resort to extreme language?
This bill will pass, and we will all learn to live with it, as we live with the current unfair tax system.
At the end of the day, as long as the economy continues to grow, most people will accept it and not complain; but if the economy falters . . . .
My 2% Social Security COLA increase for 2018 will be more than eaten up by increases in my Medicare Part B, Part D and Part F premiums. I draw minimum amounts from my investments to keep my income tax bill low but under the proposed tax bill I will see an increase in my income tax because I will no longer be able to itemize deductions. Die hard republican voters have no idea what is about to hit them in the pocketbook.
Tic Tacs keeps saying everything is so peachy with the economy.
Isn't that an endorsement of the current tax code and regulatory environment ? These are the very same laws that he said were killing our economy last October. The EXACT SAME TAX CODE !!
He wants to have it both ways and to rational people it just doesn't add up.
Here is a solution. Let a few Democrats sign on, insist on a moderate bill, and prevent the give away to the rich.
I know it won't happen.
1
There is a face saving exit strategy for republicans: Attach a new provision if not cutting all dark money altogether, then a provision that all dark money must be turned light by reporting it with the donor name (and money trail where needed, too) and release the source of the dark money that is controlling their votes on bills so dangerous to every American, and unfortunately globally as well.
It would be no different than publishing a tombstone the threats a blackmailer is holding their target captive.
That IS, after all, what is going on. Donors are holding the congress with blackmail dark money which has turned the gop leadership into strawbosses who whip the sharecropper level congress representatives when they don't bring in enough votes.
In this light, it's interesting to see the results of slavery like power as played out not on those who can be singled out by their color rather than those who willingly prostitute themselves by taking public office.
I can't feel sympathy for this kind of slave, but I can for someone who takes this self imposed noose from around their neck. I want to ask them what have they learned from this twisted taste of enslavement.
By making tuition waivers taxable income, this bill will decimate graduate school education. Meanwhile private jet deductions are maintained.
1
I have a good suggestion for Congressional Democrats who have lost power and several, no, many elections from federal to state to local.........Don't try to catch a falling knife.
Don't identify with this tax bill other than to vote NO. Don't participate in negotiations to stop a Government shutdown. Trump showed his "Hand" this morning with his ridicule of Schumer and Pelosi. He started the blame game early. He will blame any shutdown on Democrats, as the Republicans, in their usual stubbornness and desire to destroy the government from within will shut down the government through blackmail and destroy the Democrats reputation further. Don't be dupes. Stand back and watch as the Republicans go down in flames. Beat them at their own game. Start capturing the cameras with talk of how the Republicans are determined to destroy the government one step at a time. Think about it. That is just what they have been doing. Pound the porta-podiums, pummel the Pinatas, Publish or Perish. It's the Holiday season coming up and they will not shut down the government at all, or very short term, as they want Social "Security" just as much as the citizens. Call their bluff. You do know how to play, don't you? So play politics. Intelligence always wins against brute force. Catch my drift?
Democrats unite and adapt to reality. Give up the kumbaya "Bipartisanship" baloney. It's a one way street and it's a weaklings losing strategy.
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We elect politicians to spend tax monies (wisely, presumably) collected via existing structures. When tax laws, regulations, etc. change, however, the proposed changes should be put to referendum vote by the people. Those elected politicians would have the job of explaining to the people why the proposals are worth a Yes or No vote. Changing tax law (incl. $$ amounts) without We The People’s direct input and vote, is TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.
4
The State of Colorado requires such a vote on any tax change. Republicans love this requirement.
adding to the deficit can be good but the Republican tax bill is not adding any value to the country but rather stealing value.
As some experts have stated, why does everyone outside of the very wealthy class have to wait, (no Rep can give facts for how long the wait will be), for the benefits of this tax bill to trickle down into theoretically higher wages and more jobs while the million and billionaires get to see tax benefits immediately. (Those Reaganites out there fail to mention that after he lowered taxes he raised them twice and left GHW to do it again).
As for percentages, the tax numbers are 2 to 3 percent benefit to top tax tier and that will have to be legislated to change. The working salaried class recieve a temporary .5 percent average benefit and that automatically reduces and then expires altogether in 8 or so years. Meanwhile, this group will also see their income tax brackets change to accommodate inflation, as salaries go up for cost of living, the brackets slide downwards, a little accounting trick to hold that deficit expansion.
Why do Republicans hate the salaried class. It is the majority of the country. Without the people who do a regular job day in and out for a regular pay check so they can buy goods and services to live, Wall Street and rich donors would have nothing to trade but air.
9
Senate bill major provision reduce 2019 income taxes by $223 billion, according to the Urban Institute and Brookings Policy Center analysis, with $93.9 billion of that reduction going to the top five percent. That's 42 percent to the richest, those with incomes over $308,200 in 2017 dollars. This is not a middle class tax cut.
The bill can be fixed. Deny deductions for the wealthy: keep the unpopular alternative minimum tax.
5
How does the Republican party hold onto any poor or middle class voter? It's clear that they are masters at dividing Americans against each other and that most are uniformed watchers of Faux News, but there should be some normal thinking people among them. Would one of them please tell me why? Are they all single issue voters?
13
they hold onto working and middle class voters who are typically older, white, christian evangelicals and gun toting NRA supporters.
they drive hard wedge issues with dog whistles to create a divided country - and employ that old adage divide and rule.
You don't need to fool all the people all the time - you just need to game the electoral system at every turn.
Gerrymander the system, restrict voter rights, sell influence for campaign contributions, lie, cheat and obfuscate until you get past the finish line.
1
I wish more pass through businesses would voice their opinions. Since my husband owns a small manufacturing facility, that is a pass through S corp, I figured I would enlighten you all on our perspective. Currently every dollar of profit we make we pay close to 50 cents in taxes. That's both federal and state. That's before we buy any new machines, building fixtures ect. We have not found any loop holes, we get slammed yearly. The current rate stifles growth. With a tax cut - 80% of businesses that hire 80% of Americans can buy new equipment and hire more employees. We have started to do both. No new butlers, or gardeners..just full time employees and new machines. Looking for work? Pretty soon we will have to pay 20 dollars an hour, base pay, because the market has absorbed all the labor. What that means to you is higher pay, and more benefits to attract workers. Higher pay equals more tax revenue. I just don't see why no one gets it!
2
You would think that businesses like your husband's could be aided by a tax break without helping Trump's 500 pass-through businesses. A carefully written bill would make the necessary adjustments, but this bill, thrown together without debate, is not such a bill.
See Kansas for how this actually works in the real world. No wage growth, no job growth, huge tax revenue deficits, it turns out businesses (besides yours) don't make hiring and investment decisions based on taxes, they make them based on the markets and demand. As an aside you mentioned buying new equipment, new and highly efficient equipment has been the largest destroyer of manufacturer jobs in this country. I'm glad you will personally gain from this tax plan, but the majority will not.
Sure you pay 50 cents tax on every $ of profit - but lets also know what that amount is. In most cases profits are whittled down to almost nothing by smart accountants. Like your boy Trump says - only mugs pay taxes.
In my experience pass through corporations are able to deduct all sorts of things that most folks pay from after tax income. Board meeting (vacation) in Las Vegas - write it off, fancy a meal out - business meeting - write it off, car each for me and the wife plus all the running costs - write it off, home office share of utility bills, mortgage interest, write it off, new computer for the kids - write it off, and the list goes on and on and on. Oh, and lets talk about retirement plans - lets have a big one. Accelerated tax write offs for capital investment no problem, dropped a bundle in the market, offset against business profits and write it off. pass the business to your kids when you die - no tax. Chance of being audited - negligible - unless you are Trump.
Most accountants can sort through this for you and will word the invoice as general financial services so that you can write that off also.
No thinking soul believes the GOP plan will build the economy. The real goal, and this is driven by the ultra-rightists who are using mainstream Republicans, is to create such huge deficits that social programs from the New Deal on will disappear.
19
Paul Ryan is chomping at the bit to push Medicare vouchers on us old people instead of us having regular Medicare. Wanna bet?
There is absolutely no one to stand up for us.
Take away our deductibles, make us pay more in taxes, change our Medicare, reduce our Social Security, and make sure we won't be able to afford our healthcare needs.
Getting old in the United States for the middle guy - Making America Great for the rich people while the rest of us just fade away.
What country is this and why did we ever work so hard?
338
Both the right and the left are a bunch of crooks.
There is a vast amount of money distributed to charity. As well there should be.
To my church there came a healthy man. He desperately needed a tire.
A used one was procured. Upon receiving it, he looked aghast and asked who was going to mount it.
My point being that a lot of social security is distributed among the undeserving. That is not an entitlement. It is a scam.
There in lies the quandary. Folks earn their social security. It should not be given away.
you are right, there is no one to stand up for us. The GOP is getting what they want because dems refuse to vote and dems refuse to fight.
Dems didn't even have a national voter registration or get out the vote effort in 2016.
You have no one to stand up for you, and neither do most of us.
1
I think that the real nefarious Republican goal is to run up the deficit so that when Democrats are in charge again Republicans can yell and scream about entitlements causing the deficit. Then they will destroy Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Meanwhile Americans will keep voting against their own economic interests because they are duped by Fox News and Sean Hannity.
The midterms are in November 2018. 2018 income tax forms and documents start going out in January 2019. By the time "tax reform" becomes real to a lot of people, the perpetrators will be sitting pretty for another two or six years.
15
Just like with their attempts to repeal the ACA, they are trying to rush this egregious bill through in hopes that their constituents won't have time to review it before they can pass it. I'm wondering what they're planning to do in November 2018 when the midterms come up because by that time the constituents WILL have learned more than enough about how it will effect them. About time for another major march on Washington (or storming the Capitol Building with torches and pitchforks).
9
Lets make it simple. I have an $80,000 inherited income. Under Trumps tax plan I would pay about $3850 (4.8% ) in taxes. I benefit from exactly the same loopholes (an LLD, real estate depreciation) as Trump but on a smaller scale I don't hire anyone or build anything. Does this sound fair to hard working Trump supporters. Does it pay for roads, health care, education, the environment? Will it send your kids to college? Will it pay for your health care when you become sick from breathing air downstream from factories? Will it make your children safe from global warming and will it make them happy to pay for the debt incurred when they reach adulthood. If so keep voting GOP.
14
There's a simple remedy if you believe you are underpaying your fair share of taxes. I expect you will not take advantage of it. Talk is cheap.
Of course tax cuts for the poor and middle class will expire in 2025. That way, Republicans can blame it on a Democratic president. Or, if they’re even cheekier, they can blame it on Barack Obama, even though at that point he’ll have been out of office for years.
8
Mueller can't move fast enough. Still our fault for voting in these Senators. This body isn't effected by gerrymandering, but they are bought and paid for with big money. The little people are going to have to step up and get to the polls in 2018 or we are most certainly on the road to oblivion.
13
For anyone interested in Trumps businesses, go to opensecrets.org and have a look at Trumps business interests (financial disclosure document). As the editorial board alluded, he has an enormous number (pages and pages in grid format) of LLC businesses that would benefit him under this legislation.
Remember, he said in the campaign he was smart by being able to minimize his taxes per IRS code. Now, he is in a position to alter the code to his benefit.
The rich get richer, and our deficit skyrockets.
8
This bill ensures the biggest and most devious transfer of wealth in human history. Period.
Normally a highway robbery of this scale would cause a rebellion. But the evil geniuses constructing the plan have made sure most people get some savings in the short run. Unfortunately, there is a price to be paid for the 1.5T X-mas gift being packaged. The bottom 80% and their kids will pay as cuts to services, infrastructure, education, health, environment, etc. inevitably follow.
Making America great again? Absolutely - for the billionaire donors who paid for those hats.
252
Not even devious! Right in front of our faces!!!
1
VKM,
Back in 1981, Budget Director David Stockman told the new president, Reagan, that trickle-down theories will provide the middle class with nothing more than "pizza toppings" and that is a quote.
And of course, nearly all of those members of the House and Senate voting for this giveaway to the richest among us will "retire" to their seven-figure salaries promised by those who wrote this bill in the first place. This bill has the imprint of the biggest influence scammer group in America, ALEC (The American Legislative Exchange Counci), made up of politicians, lobbyists and corporate chieftains). ALEC sends prescribed legislation, written by their own lawyers, to the RNC and GOP leaders around the country for as-is approval. Most of the bills passing through the House and Senate were not only written by ALEC, they usually remain intact for floor votes controlled by Republicans.
And, ALEC uses what they call the ALEC-Laffer State Economic Competitiveness Index to justify their efforts. Remember, as well, "Laffer" is Arthur Laffer, the Chicago libertarian economist who invented trickle-down theories using his infamous "Laffer-Curve" to "prove" the theories work. They have failed us three times with disastrous results, the most recent being The Great Recession of 2008 - present.
1
While huge on an absolute scale, $1.5 trillion over 10 years is about one of one half percent of GDP. Another way to look at it is around 3% of government spending. If there is no offsetting growth at some point spending would need to decline by 3%. However, it is reasonable to expect growth as the cost of doing business in the US relative to the rest of the world will decline sharply.
We really need an increase in economic growth to pay for the looming increases in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, as well as the existing very large debt. I agree we need better education, health care and infrastructure to accomplish this but we also need to level the playing field with other countries by reducing corporate taxes.
Outraged Trump opponents point to the 2027 reset date. How out of touch can they be?
Few think that far ahead. Americans have the attention span of a gnat, and ten years is thousands of seismic news stories into the future.
Before demonizing the proposed tax bill, take a look at the NYT's interactive graphs for a wide variety of middle income earners $40K - $100K/yr.
The vast majority would see a significant reduction in federal income tax. Most families earning from $40K to 80K will realize a $1600 or so decrease in their 2018 tax bill. Some, depending on number of family members, could get an even bigger cut.
Yes, families that itemize, are more likely to see tax increase but the largest cluster of these top out at less than $1K.
See for yourselves:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/28/upshot/what-the-tax-bill-...?
Kudos to the NYT for doing the analysis.
The middle classes will love the new bill as it is currently proposed ... if they ignore the loss of ACA insurance subsidies, COLA increases etc.
Give Trump and the Repubs some credit -- they know how to sweeten a deal and target it to snag the most votes in return.
Hate to say it, but in the short term Trump is going to look very good, especially for the 2018 and 2020 election cycle.
2
By 2020 there will be no "middle class" at this rate, just the poor and the rich. Rising rents, student loans, stagnant wages, (this teacher is being offered a %5.5 wage cut next year). The next generation will pay for all of this. The rich will die and pass it to their kids tax-free.
Can anyone remember when the Republican Party cared about the middle class or the poor? It was a very long time ago. Maybe in the '50's. So why is the Editorial Board thinking that there are people of conscience in the Republican Party.
McCain, Collins and Murkowski were only 3 of the many. And their support or non-support of the tax bill so far has not been declared. In fact Murkowski has now been bought off by the promise of drilling in Alaska. I have hopes for Susan Collins and possibly McCain, but as for the rest of them, they have shown nothing in the way of supporting working families, middle class or working poor.
When the judge that heard the case yesterday regarding the Consumer Protection Agency and sided with an old law that does not apply to such agency, I gave up all hope of the Republicans caring about the average American. They only care about their donors. Thanks to the Supreme Court who declared somewhat ridiculously that Corporations are people too. This decision is ruining the Country. The Justices are supposed to believe in enforcing the Constitution. They forgot their job, when it came to money. They must have their donors too. Who knew.
11
"Forgotten in this deal-making are the millions of poor and middle-class...."
The Republicans may "forget" them this year, but I can guarantee that those millions will remember the Republicans come next year.
5
I wish I believed you, but the Republicans are pretty good at distracting the people whose pockets they are picking. Instead of voting for their wallets, too many voters focus on their hate of those who differ from them in skin color, sexuality, or political affiliation.
1
I had hoped that our constitution and institutional memory would keep our republic and its historical values afloat despite the actions of Trump and the new Republican Party. Alas, we are sinking quickly while keeping the skeleton of democracy in place, quickly becoming a banana republic and a 3rd world country run by and for plutocrats. We are ruining our future-infrastructure, education, health and safety-for a fistful of dollars.
9
Senator McCain was right when he said we should go back to order. Rushing major legislation with wide ranging ramifications through this way is wrong. We are rich vs poor with so called leaders/elected representatives functioning as tools for the rich. It is no accident that President Trump will benefit from this tax bill. The man who said he wanted to make America great again just wanted to use the office and power of the president to make money.
9
Read the NYT's own analysis of the tax bill's effect on taxpayers (on the top of the website). The majority of taxpayers in all brackets see a net decrease in taxes. Does everyone? Of course not. It's likely impossible to craft a bill that can account for every individual situation. But if you can pass legislation that helps 70-80% of Americans directly and all indirectly over time that's a pretty good start.
3
Hah , interesting . First of all the reduction if taxes will be insignificant and exprire in 2025 . Second , the chart presentation is pretty clear , that 25% of middle class will see increase of taxes . Along with this rich people will have significant reduction in taxes . You found it fair ???
middle class will pay for wealthy , with reduction of their earning . With debt increase, all social programs will be cut , while top earneres will pocket even more than ever.
Health insurance costs in MA per capita from those I know went up 400% which gives a net increase when combined with taxable income.
Trump's insistence on undoing all of Obama's accomplishments while in office continues, now, he's targeting the economy that Obama turned around, thanks in large part to increased spending. Supply side economics is a sham, "voodoo economics" as George HW Bush once said, when you have all the money you'll ever need, what're you going to do with a little bit more; are you ready for another recession because it's knocking on the door.
5
Yeah, record low unemployment, surging GDP and trillions in new wealth created... Who would want that?
And what policy of Trump's is responsible for any of that? What major piece of economic legislation has he passed? None, zero, zip, nada, it's just carry over independent of anything he's done because he's done nothing. It's the economy coasting.
But this is Trump's tax policy, and if it passes, the economy will come to a screeching halt.
"Republican senators have a choice. They can follow the will of their donors and vote to take money from the middle class and give it to the wealthiest people in the world. Or they can vote no, to protect the public and the financial health of the government. There’s no compromise on that."
My goodness, we are just full of wishful thinking, aren't we?
4
The corporate tax rate really does need to come down. Our top rate is higher than France, and we are hemorrhaging corporations as a result. 20% merely makes us competitive with other countries. However, if they bring the rate down that much, the responsible thing to do is to close all the loopholes.
This should ultimately benefit retirement savers and pensions as well, who will receive fatter returns in their portfolios. It should also cause companies to repatriate a couple trillion dollars that is sitting idle overseas. If some of it lands in my 401(k), that is fine by me.
3
IMO getting to deduct state income taxes is a "loophole". I 'm for the cleanest income tax system possible, and that means basically no deductions. Deductions immediately get gamed.
Just like everything Trump, this bill is going to pass muster because of its obfuscation. If there were one element of horror in it that we could all call our congressmen to complain about that would be easy to do. But try calling your senator (especially if they are Republican) and convincing them that there are 10 good reasons to vote no and none to vote yes. They won't argue against any one thing because there are offenses on so many fronts. So what will they do? Rubber stamp it to save their own hides. The supply chain of immorality and greed from donor to congressmen and lobbyists to congressmen is astounding. And to think that at the end of this, in addition to hurting other people directly, they'll be laughing their way to the bank is just galling on every imaginable level. They may think the're getting away with something and perhaps they are on this planet. But they are certainly playing Russian roulette beyond that.
5
I find it fascinating and disturbing that the GOP tax plan could double the taxes paid by graduate students. These young people who represent the future of American science, technology, engineering and math are willing to spend years living on meager stipends to pursue their careers. Now the GOP as declared war on them. Is this because Republicans distrust education that is not based on religion? Is it part of Trump’s plan to make China great again? Whatever the “logic”, this is a tragic mistake that will weaken America. It’s a shame that members of Congress are in such thrall to their elite billionaire donors that they’ve lost any sense of patriotism or duty to future generations.
8
This is all about Republican donors, the "win" and obscenely wealthy people making more money off of us. I am disgusted by the clear lack of Republican humanity this morning...and despite my disgust I will be going to work in a job that depends on Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security to help our clients receive their much needed services.
So, I make my calls to my senators and voice my concerns and ask them to vote no on this injustice...because I don't happen to have a couple of million dollars laying around to help sway things my way.
6
Persistence of vision allows us to enjoy television and motion pictures, seeing them as a seamless whole rather than as the multiple individual images shown one after another.
Congress in general and Republicans specifically act in the same manner. They have been in thrall to the donor class for so long that is all they can see. It is doubtful they have been hungry or even inconvenienced most all their lives. To them, the poor are those who cannot afford domestic servants or college for all their children or that second home in the Hamptons.
I have no doubt they will continue to vote their interests and not ours. Follow the money (from our pockets to theirs).
5
Republicans need note that setting up taxes so that the middle class loses any savings by 2027 signals that Trump and the current members of Congress only care about their own terms of office, for Trump will be out by then as will a sizable number of our current congressional representatives and senators. By the time the bottom drops out significantly for the middle class, they'll be out of there, leaving the Republican Party as responsible for the mess, and so ensuring Democratic wins. If the Republican Party could see beyond its current leadership, it would realize that the current short-term gains for those in office now are predicated on the failure of the party in the longer run.
2
If we had a political system that works, where the opposition is willing to discuss amendments to legislation after the bill is implemented this should not be a problem. After a couple of yours we see the effects of the legislation and fix what needs to be fixed. But just as Obamacare could not be fixed, had to be burned at the stake, the Dems will fight against this legislation with a no prisoners attitude.
No limit to the shamelessness of our leaders. Do nothing for a decades except cater to the "donors" and then serve up a huge platter to them. Not just Trump and the GOP, Dems helped enormously. Bank deregulation, bankruptcy rules, student loan fiasco, all aided and abetted by both parties. Our government is is owned by the one per-centers, unashamedly will never have enough.
2
KS, you don't understand how markets work. It's not only those who choose not to buy insurance who will lose their coverage. If younger, healthier people pull out of the market, premiums rise because those who remain covered are older, sicker, and therefore, more expensive to cover. Why is that so hard for people to understand? It's how all insurance works. Companies must cover a wide swath in order to cover anyone or they close up shop. And when those who are uncovered are in an accident or become really ill, they will still go to a doctor or hospital. Only, because they are uninsured, you and I get to pay for it in raised premiums to make up the difference. Furthermore, did you check out the huge rise in premiums annually BEFORE the ACA? I didn't think so.
3
The Republican tax bill Trumps all commonsense. Which is sadly gone missing in much of America. We are witnessing the duping of the dupes.
Reagan introduced us to trickle-down economics. And the Republican Party depends upon trickle-down sound judgement. Much of the public is willing to believe the Republican tax scam with its promise of bettering their lives by giving tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations. They and their parents like how well tax giveaways to the wealthy worked out for them under Reagan and W. Bush.
The decline of the middle-class which began under Reagan's royal presidency and its near destruction under W. Bush's blundering presidency are mere distractions to their approval of the latest trickle-down tax scam. They don't care if billionaires get millions in lower taxes, trillions are added to the national debt to burden their children, so long as they get an additional $7 in their weekly take-home pay.
Republicans in Congress can get away with this scam because their constituents are willing dupes.
6
This, more than a fiscal catastrophe, is an attack upon our democracy. No debate, no hearings, no critiques, no scoring, we just fall in line based on party affiliation? I want tax reform, but this isn't anything like something that makes fiscal or economic sense. The tax breaks do not incentivize economic growth or market stability. What is their benefit? Riches to the unimaginably rich.
But it pales in comparison to this grievous wound to our democracy. Love or hate ACA, it played out in public.
We want hearings.
6
The Republians aren't going to protect the public and the financial health of the government by voting no on this bill. That is not their mission.
They are in Congress to undermine government and protect their big money donors, not the public. They will vote yes on this bill, with no qualms whatever.
5
As a US citizen I had the privilege to vote in the last election. Hillary Clinton offered the agenda of a party that had destroyed three Middle Eastern countries and was enthusiastic over antagonizing more places in the world to expand the huge military intrusions and open the possibility of a world wide nuclear catastrophe. The Republicans offered an agenda overwhelmingly in favor of unbalancing the wealth of the nation to impoverish a huge percentage of the country to reward those already immensely wealthy with even more wealth. There was no way to make either choice worthwhile so I was blocked from making a choice on that basis. Nevertheless the fact that the total incompetence of all reasonable executive exercise on the part of the Republicans could finally awake the country to its terrible problems might stimulate social dynamics to greater energy so that the country could finally come to grips with its vital necessities and initiate corrective policies. The abysmal performance of the current Trump regime and the legislature which supports it in its current tax measure has now encouraged me in my understandings so I can now look forward to the inherent intelligence of the US population to arise and restore the country to its original declaimed ideals.
Infuriated, disappointed, mad, upset, outraged and the list goes on.
Please tell me that this is just a bad dream?
I do NOT see how the proposed tax bill makes any sense for our country in the long run. Deficits go higher, The Rich get richer and everyone else pays more in taxes, and the little trust in our government "leaders" is completely vaporized. These factors are NOT healthy for a well functioning democracy.
My apologies for my naive desire to enable future generations of Americans to have better opportunities than my generation.
4
Trump and Republican donors are like swine at the trough greedily salivating at the swill Trump and the Republicans will feed them from food stolen from the poor.
If that image is disgusting so is this tax bill .
Sure we need a cut in the corporate tax rate to be internationally compeititive but it has to be paid for by ensuring that all companies pay it and it is revenue neutral
On the personal tax side all those benefiting from pass through income must pay tax at the individual rates, carried interest loophole must be eliminated as must other loopholes tailored to benefit specific interest groups Dividends as in other countries must be taxed as earned income.
This will provide funds to give a tax break to the middle class.
Estate tax must stay in place and property tax and state tax must continue to be allowed as deductions.
As for the ridiculous notion the tax cuts for the rich will be the catalyst for exceptional growth , it ignores the fact we are at full employment , there are over 6 million skilled jobs are vacant and all the ingredients for an increase in inflation, interest rate increases are in place.
The consequence will be lower consumer demand and devastating times for the middle class as they deal with higher taxes, higher interest rates and prices.
End result a massive debt for our kids, an un compeititive infrastructure, increase in income disparity and a recession within 18 months
2
The video footage of the Senate panel's vote to bring this bill out of committee, played in its entirety on Rachel Maddow, was humanely cringeworthy. The Republicans were palpably embarrassed by their softly spoken 'aye' votes while the Democrats were palpably outraged by their loudly proclaimed NO votes. This is what a Democracy looks like that bought and sold by plutocratic Donors.
5
A delusion is a fixed false belief.Trickle down economics is a delusion held by those that rationalize the proposed tax bill as a means to help the majority of Americans contrary to available economic evidence.In their delusion the writers of the GOP tax bill are engaged with this president in a cone game that they hope will pass as tax reform but in reality is a giveaway to the wealthy and to corporations that will use the money to buy more company shares and further reward political donors
1
Congress is thinking about keeping the deduction for up to $10,000 in mortgage interest. This is great for homeowners but does nothing for renters. For those of us fortunate enough to live in cities like New York, we get no reprieve from this disastrous bill. One way to mitigate part of the "pain" would be for renters to be able to take a deduction for the portion of their rent that covers the apartment owners interest payments on their mortgages. Senators and Congressman from "blue states" should consider pushing for this as a way to get their votes. Why should the Middle Class be paying for tax cuts for Golf Club Owners?
2
Is there anyone at all that still believes the fake populism of Trump and his cabal of Goldman Sachs advisers?
When I see that Trump still enjoys an unmovable bulk of 35% support among the lower and middle classes, I despair. These people truly deserve what they are going to get, but they are dragging everyone else down with them.
3
How is this not corruption? Republicans vote for tax cuts to please wealthy donors to their election campaigns. Citizens are pursuaded to vote Republican, not on the basis of policy, but by the expenditure of donated funds in these campaigns. In essence, votes are bought at both ends.
2
Voters should ask themselves: "Should we allow millionaires to get hundreds of thousands of dollars in exchange for my getting $20 a week?"
Second, I still don't have clear if on top of getting a huge tax cut, corporations will also retain the pile of loopholes they now enjoy. So, who is going to pay for the interest on 1.4 trillion dollars if they don't pay their share? I give you one guess. So, don't spend that $20 bill, they will want it back.
Isn't this how all tax bills end up? They begin with the goal of fairness and simplicity--and at the end, when the votes are needed, they end up being more unfair and more complicated.
2
i remember reading "the history of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire" in college many years ago. and of course we all could see some of the parrallels to the US we saw in the 1960's. but Gibbon's argued that it was a 300 year process.
we see how swiftly a determined group of "only for me" congresspeople can accomplish the process in one election cycle.
from wealth redistribution, to proper services to the populace, to infrastructure, to consumer protection, to interactions with foreign countries.
all is rapidly being dismantled to protect the self-important group of "politicians" and their pocket liners.
i suppose when history writes "the decline and fall of the American experiment" it will be noted be that the experiment lasted a little over 200 years (as did the Roman Empire) and the vestiges lasted another 200 or 300.
6
What’s to become of the US? This plan will eviscerate the budget. It’s already been said by Krugman and others, but this is the Republican way to end entitlements. There’ll be no money. They’re taking away team breaks for average people like me.
I’ve nothing new to say. I guess I’m writing to share how heartsick I am. How terrified I am for people like me who’ve got kids in college and who decided (late in life) to go back to school. I, and others like me, will be punished for trying to make a better life for ourselves. And we’re doubly punished for living in a state that taxes high in order to provide solid infrastructure. This tax “thing” is a take down of our country. On the heels of everything else that’s going on, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
I’m finding it impossible to sleep at night.
412
Heartsick is the word. Me too.
1
It's cold comfort, but you're not alone.
I've always considered myself politically moderate. I am now beginning to understand how people undergo radicalization. If the Dems prevail in 2018 and beyond, I'd happily support raising the top income tax bracket to 60% or so. The lower the top tax bracket has fallen the greater the inequality in income and wealth distribution we've seen in our country.
1
Move. Seriously. Everything you state is correct.
Could somebody tell us if the next Congress or the next Administration can pass a different and better tax reform? If we don't like this one, can it be changed, or rather, when can it be changed?
If 60% of the Congress wanted it to be different, could they reform taxes again?
4
Absolutely they could. Any legislation can be repealed, or modified.
First, WE need to vote out the bozos who wrote this piece of ... chicanery.
Ah, but Fox reports this differently, and millions of Americans are Fox devotees. Trump and the GOP have violated virtually every promise made to "the people", yet their supporters remain vehement. And, here in North Carolina where we live in retirement, my wife and I realize that our votes matter not, as we live in a thoroughly gerrymandered state. Policies, both state and federal, to which we strenuously object are being crammed down our throats, as is also the case with the largest states when it comes to the federal level. Trumpists cannot and will not see the truth until the dire impacts reach them personally, which takes time. And in that time tremendous damage is being done to our nation, and to our democracy. Our personal tax liability will decrease under this GOP plan, but we see what it will do to our country and are appalled. With each passing day we grow more despondent, realizing that we can do nothing to stop this determined march to oligarchy. Depressing.
55
Michael:
As long as a significant fraction of the people who are entitled to vote sit on their hands, nothing will change. What was the percentage of eligible voters who actually voted in 2016? in NC, about 4.7 million people voted out of a voter eligible population of about 7.3 million, or about 64%. NC is a state that is competitive. Spend some of your time trying to get a few more people to go to the polls on election day, November 6, 2018, and vote.
2
I believe they think the tax bill is going to put the "other" in their place. They want to hurt those they despise, no matter the collateral damage.
A significant consequence lurking behind this tax "reform" legislation is its impact on state and local budgets. Any personal tax benefit could easily be offset by increases in state and local taxation or a radical demise of services. The Kansas debacle is one example, another is brewing in Oklahoma where public schools in some districts are open less than 4 day a week.
29
I was just having the exact same thought. The disaster awaiting people at the local level is going to knock Trump voters on their feet. Rural areas with bad roads and no high speed internet? Get used to it. Starving children and friends and relatives dying of currently treatable illness? Get used to it.
1
Sorry to cavil... but if the schools were open 5 days a week, perhaps students could learn to use the work "fewer" rather than "less," as correct usage would have it.
Here we are again with the supposedly bad statistic that 13 million will lose their insurance. They will only "lose" their insurance if they choose to. imagine, a country where you can choose whether you wish to have health care insurance, versus one which forces you to have it by threatening with a financial penalty if you don't. And the penalty is just money to the government, with nothing n return.
The premium increases because of Obamacare since 2010 have risen 80-300%. Furthermore, 1) policies are so expensive for lower income families that many cannot afford to purchase them, and 2) deductibles have risen on most policies, so you are not getting the same benefits as before for having health insurance. 3) Many people/families are counted as having insurance but with the coverage provided in such plans as the Obamacare bronze and silver plans, the deductible is so high ($3,000 to 12,000) that those counted as having insurance in reality only have catastrophic coverage, not what one would truly call health insurance.
As for things expiring in 8-10 years: Congress can assess what is good, what is bad, and modify the taxes accordingly at that future time.
Democrats showed today that they are not even willing to discuss the bill, and continue to push the narrative (as does this article) that the proposals are bad.
The Congressional Budget Office? They are the ones who were astoundingly off the mark in their assessment of what would happen with Obamacare.
13
Yet another person who doesn't understand how insurance works. If you let more people opt out, it leaves a less healthy pool of people in the insurance markets, leading to higher premiums for everyone. And some nontrivial fraction of those "healthy" people will become sick or injured. And what then? They receive expensive health care, which we all wind up paying for one way or another.
Health insurance is not like purchasing a TV. It's why so many countries have coverage for all. With everyone forced to be in the pool, overall costs can be lower. Why is this so hard for some to understand? I think it's because you don't want to understand it.
4
Fix what is bad in the tax code by increasing revenue if it came to that? What world are you living in to believe that the Republicans in Congress would do anything that would raise the ire of their donor class even in the face of an exploding deficit? There is absolutely no evidence that the big money interests that drive the GOP agenda have any hint of concern about the common good. If you can point to any I would be interested.
1
"They will only lose their insurance if they choose to"? They will lose their insurance because they won't be able to pay for it - it's what the Republicans are counting on; they need that savings to pass to the rich and corporations. And you don't have a problem with that? When you have to choose between putting food on the table and health care, guess what. The ACA isn't perfect - to get it passed, President Obama had to agree to Republican conditions that have led to the problems you cited - but it was a step in the right direction that could have been modified to address those issues if the Republicans had been willing, but of course, they aren't. And yes, imagine a country where everyone has insurance - everyone in, nobody out. The rest of the developed world - and even some third-world countries - figured this out long ago, and research shows a majority of Americans are in favor of simply expanding Medicare to everyone. We are quite literally the only nation in the world where people go bankrupt trying to keep themselves alive. These proposals ARE bad and this tax bill is a fraud that literally robs from the poor to give to the rich.
4
Putting aside debate, discussion, and transparency, the way the Congressional Republicans are surreptitiously pushing the highly skewed and fiscally ruinous tax bill , and indulging in the clever deal making with the seemingly swing Senators, is reflective of not only their impatience for the early passage of the bill but also their deceitful ways of allowing organised plunder of public money and resources to benefit their donors.
82
For good or ill, that's politics professor. "...fiscally ruinous tax bill"? Maybe you should spend some time worrying about why 1/4 of India's people subsist on $1.25 day of income or less.
How can middle class people in the Midwest support this transfer of wealth away from them and their kids and grandkids? How can they think that the money will create any jobs when there will not be much more money for consumers to spend to drive the economy? The money will be for big companies who buy back their own stock and rich families who invest offshore in the Cayman Islands. How can middle class people in the Midwest think they will benefit from this? And now Medicare and Social Security will be cut by Ryan?Why do the middle class voters in the Midwest and South want this tax shift?
100
Don’t group all middle class voters in the Midwest. I’m one of them, and I believe this is the biggest scam in American history.
They watch Fox News, if they pay attention at all, and believe the malarkey being passed off as facts by Ryan, Sean Hannity and friends. It's like a bad scam, only it's all out in the open for those who care enough to watch it unfold.
The uninformed voters in the Midwest voted for these clowns, that's why it's happening. I assume they will continue to vote the R's into office as they have a habit of doing interesting stuff like that. Someday maybe they will wake up and realize what's happened to them, no jobs, low wages for their kids, can't afford college, no social support system. Oh well, another day in Trumpworld.
Meanwhile eight asses were arrested and held for destroying public property in Orai, India. Seems to me the 8 Republicans signaling their votes can be changed ('er bought for the right price), deserve no less.
15
Gigantic tax cuts for the rich and corporations paid for by people who have to work for a living instead an infrastructure bill virtually guaranteed to create jobs and stimulate the economy (and for which there will likely be no funds).
No one should forget the true GOP priorities when, come election time, they try to tell you otherwise.
83
The think tanks pointing out how much the bill hurts the poor have yet to factor in formally the $1.5 trillion in spending cuts Republicans will try to pass next, to pay for these tax cuts for the rich.
As bad as this bill is for those earning below $75,000, they literally have only seen the half of it. We have yet to see the other shoe drop, and it will fall hard indeed on the 70 million Medicaid recipients, as that is where the non-elderly (i.e., less protected by special interest) money goes. This is some harsh medicine, just to give the top 1% a tax cut they don't need.
95
The spending cuts are the best part!
They should go ahead and start cutting right now to avoid increasing the debt and deficit.
Republicans said for years: "No free Riders!" and people should "put some skin in the game!" But, Republicans want to let all go uninsured burdening society without penalty. The Supreme Court ruled anyone who shows up at Emergency rooms must be treated. So MY private Health Insurance will increase again to pay for all those Republican free riders.
Will Republicans next enact Federal laws forcing States to allow car drivers to drop car insurance without penalty?
40
After reading Leonharts piece, I followed an included link to a recent Hart Poll conducted in Tennessee with about 400 participants. I selected that state as truly middle America and vaguely representative of the mean throughout the nation. In that Poll, 60 percent disapproved of the Tax Cut and Jobs Act legislation now in process whereby the majority of citizens does not want it passed, but the Republican echo chamber is not receiving those negative waves from the public, instead forging ahead buying each others votes. That's what they do; they buy votes, and what better time than Christmas?
37
That is stunning information, considering that Tennessee residents likely benefit the most due to their low tax structure to begin with. Most probably do not have enough SALT taxes so that even a small increase to the standard deduction (it's a clever lie to state that this bill doubles it) will help them.
But here's my question. If the premise of the argument is that if employers (in this case large corporations) taxes are lowered, they'll pay their employees more, why then don't states like Tennessee, with considerably lower costs, pay their employees more than high costs states now?
Busted.
1
Congressional Republicans are not afraid of losing to Democrats in 2018. They are afraid of losing the primaries to the Koch brothers and sit on the sidelines come November 2018.
22
I agree. Great comment
Republicans have dropped all pretense that they represent ordinary Americans or the vast majority of their constituents. They want to force us as a nation to borrow $150 billion a year for the next decade and for the foreseeable future to give tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and to wealthy foreigners (one third of U.S. corporations are owned by foreigners). This is the biggest transfer of wealth in our history, from ordinary citizens to the richest ones.
The only remedy is at the ballot box. Voters must make Trump a one-term president and vote House and Senate Republicans out of office at the earliest opportunity. We must never vote for a Republican for any office. They might reset their priorities.
70
Apologists for the gop legislation tend to veer off into the weeds, reeling off a lot of obscure conflicting minutia and burying the issue in unresolved, arcane mechanics that simply don't exist in our everyday lives. They do this in a detached, reasonable voice and try to leave the listener with a "fair & balanced" feeling about a basic public issue - an issue beyond common understanding and best left to the people who really know.
Other gop proponents tend to raise the alarm bells, much like their media advocates have been doing for the past 10 years.
Both approaches smell like classic con strategies.
Why do they think this is a good way to run the country?
8
It would be nice if the American public were given comprehensive facts instead of venomous sound bites. Current proposals are far from ideal but are not simply manifestations of "evil" and "greed." Proposed changes to corporate taxation have been advocated by both parties for years to even the playing field internationally and incentivize US corporations to stay in or return to the US instead of going offshore. Changes to the pass-through rules are to equalize tax treatment across all types of business entities.
Changes to individual taxation are an attempt at simplification and include sunset clauses only for purposes of budget reconciliation. In 8 years, we will have a new president and congress who will have to decide again how to move forward. As for gifts to the wealthy, the top 1% currently pay 50% of all taxes collected by the federal government. Whether or not that is their "fair share" depends on how much faith you have in government. From what I've seen, charitable foundations funded by the wealthy, boots-on-the-ground non-profits, and other NGO's are far more nimble, efficient and effective than federal agencies will ever be.
5
According to Google, the top 10% paid 49% of income taxes in 2014. In 2026, payroll taxes were equal in total collections to the income tax.
"...the top 1% currently pay 50% of all taxes collected by the federal government."
I hear/see this statement again and again ad nauseum. In fact, all it says is how unbelievably extreme the wealth disparity is in the country. It's pretty much meaningless when the richest 1% of families control ~40% of the country's wealth, and the bottom 90% of families now hold just ~23% of the wealth, down from about one-third in 1989 when the Fed started tracking this measure.
1
If our tax system is so onerous, why have we have so many millionaire/billionaires?
Worse, a billionaire earns hundreds of thousands of dollars PER DAY forever. These people are doing quite well.
"Republican senators have a choice. They can follow the will of their donors and vote to take money from the middle class and give it to the wealthiest people in the world. Or they can vote no, to protect the public and the financial health of the government. There’s no compromise on that."
Call me cynical, but I'm fairly sure that the Republicans will go with their donors. They no longer represent American citizens, they represent the wealthy. And somehow the people who vote for them don't get it. They are not on your side, folks.
39
Does anyone writing these articles understand the following:
* 2/3 of job growth comes from small businesses
* Vast majority of small businesses are pass-throughs
* Pass throughs currently pay taxes of 45-50% between fed, state, medicare
* This tax makes majority of US small business highly uncompetitive globally
=> So best thing can do to boost jobs is to reduce taxes on pass throughs.
9
I have a pass-through business. Reducing my tax rate on profits from this business is not going to make me hire someone. Demand for products and services (and an inability to meet demand with current workforce) makes me hire, period. In fact, given that I can already deduct payments to workers as a business expense, a high tax rate on profits might actually make me more, not less, incentivized to hire - so I can keep more of the business proceeds in the business. If I can take out profits at a low tax rate, guess what? More money goes in my pocket. I would rather have a functioning society.
410
And do you know that pass-through entities do not pay taxes? So this is a tax cut for the owners. So the owners of a business should pay taxes at a lower rate than the people that work for them?
9
One last point. Most small businesses function local so "uncompetitive globally" is irrelevant.
10
The Republican tax bill illustrates a tension between democracy, which gives equal power to each citizen, and capitalism, which generates unequal wealth and therefore unequal power. Bernie Sanders led a movement to lessen this tension by aiming to institute a democratic socialist economy; Hillary Clinton by returning to a regulated capitalism that served the country well from 1945 to 1975.
Right now, the balance of power favors unrestrained capitalism. However, if the tax bill is passed, it will widen economic inequality, stoke the anger of the working class even more towards big business and the financial sector, and increase the political divisions in the country.
The tension between democracy and capitalism needs to be continually rethought by each new generation.
24
Talk about killing the " goose that laid the Golden eggs". The erosion of the middle class apparently is set to intensify. After total tax revenue declines we will be told we must abandoned Social Security and Medicare to keep the system viable. Then the rallying cry will be "eat the rich" and the stability and opportunities we all basically take for granted might well be missed by most. Oh well, every generation has their great challenges and must rethink as you say. Perhaps we can blame Russia if we have a revolution!
As has been widely noted, this tax cut is a sugar high for corporations that will result in an economic slump. Provisions of the bill that encourage corporations to offshore even more production will further slow manufacturing in the US, and given that CEOs have stated publicly that they will not flow the tax savings back into higher workers' salaries or new jobs, we will not long even be able to buy what the Chinese and others manufacture for US corporations. The US will become nothing more than a tax haven, yielding big gains for the financial sector in particular and little else for the rest of the economy.
35
Much of this editorial makes sense given the assumption that corporations cannot move and that new enterprises don't have any choice about where to call home for tax purposes. But is that assumption valid? Our pharma companies have moved to Ireland (12.5 percent corporate tax). New insurance companies are set up in Bermuda (tax-free). Burger King moved to Canada.
The Europeans figured out a long time ago that it is tougher for people to move than for unsentimental corporations to move. Therefore they have corporate tax rates that are generally below 20 percent (i.e., similar to what is in the proposed law) and get the rest of the money that they need from taxes on human residents.
Our states have figured this out. They impose corporate income taxes and then any time a big company talks about expanding an office or building a factory the taxes are waived for 20 years.
The current U.S. system is analogous to me winning the right to tax everyone in my neighborhood $10,000 per year per adult. So I order the Gulfstream G650, hire Sting to perform at all of our upcoming kid birthday parties, etc. But although I made great plans for how I was going to spend the money, I forgot that my neighbors have the option of moving to lower-tax neighborhoods where they don't have to pay the special "Philip's Gulfstream tax". So the planned $20 million per year in tax revenue erodes as the neighbors move away.
14
So we should structure our society around what corporations want and need, rather than what We The People want and need? Interesting philosophy. I wish Mr. Jefferson was around to set you straight on that one.
"Mr. Johnson and Mr. Daines want a higher deduction, meaning that moguls would pay taxes on less of their earnings."
I love the way the changes are demanded by the likes of Ron Johnson who's just arguing about how much he should get for his vote. What a sorry excuse for an elected senator--are all the people in Wisconsin fat cats?
I don't think Charles Dickens himself could have written a more grotesque plot line. You better believe that they're trying to rush this out the door--the "little people" are already smelling a rat.
While the demonstrations aren't nearly as vocal and as those against ACA repeal this past summer, it's likely because so much has been done behind closed doors.
Or maybe the middle class simply hasn't the time to pour through the Times to find the latest, and nastiest. They do work for a living, after all, unlike the posturing, preening, and avaricious men (always the men!) concocting this grand bargain with the devil.
I wonder if they realize they can't take it with them?
By my count, there should more than the 3 votes needed to kill this bill: Collins, McCain, Flake, and Corker. Collins shows the most consistency regarding the principle of her objections (throwing millions off healthcare) and the others have nothing to lose, as they owe Trump nothing and aren't running again.
The only thing I can think of to get them to yes would be simple greed--meaning that maybe they really do believe they can take it with them.
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Corker voted "yes" to get the bill out of committee and on to the floor. I don't trust him to do the right thing when he just did the wrong one.
Ten-to-one the holdouts cave, to get a "win" "for the good of the party": a morally bankrupt party that cements its immorality with this tax bill.
Though the R's know they'll likely lose the Congress in 2018, that is to their advantage in the long run. The Democrats will be hobbled by these tax cuts (there won't be the votes to reverse them, either, given the D's markers out to the big money as well as the R's) and the recession that inevitably ensues from these irresponsible tax cuts (just like 1990 after Reagan/Bush I and 2008 after W) will just - wait for it - require cuts to SS, Medicare and Medicaid, because we're broke and lookee here, the debt! The debt! The deficit! The deficit!
Read a very insightful and persuasive article by Bruce Bartlett, a sane and objective Republican budget whiz who strangely believes in effective and responsible government, in the Guardian about this stairstep downward progression in the nation's fiscal ills and how it plays into the Ayn Rand/Grover Norquist ego and greed fantasists' wet dreams.
Republican Tax Cuts Will Hurt Americans, and Democrats Will Pay the Price https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/20/republican-tax-cut...
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On Monday evening, Nov. 20th, the Republicans in the Senate released the text of their 515-page tax bill. They did not involved Democratic senators at all in its creation. On Wednesday, Nov. 29th, it will go to a vote. That is six working days. It is still changing. Democratic senators have been locked out of the process. No previous major legislation has been passed like this. Normally there are hearings, committee meetings, markups, expert analyses, and several months of transparent debates and meetings.
This is not due process. The Senate was designed by the founding fathers and the Constitution to be the deliberative body. From 1789 to 1917, senators had unlimited debate time and an unlimited opportunity to offer amendments to legislation under consideration. McConnell already turned the Senate into a non-democratic body when he denied President Obama (elected by far more Americans than Trump) his Constitutional right to have his Supreme Court Justice nominee the right to review and a vote.
This is a travesty. It is not constitutional democracy. When more than half the citizens of the country have their representatives excluded from the legislative process, there is not even the pretense of democracy. The Republicans are running the Senate like Hitler's pseudo-Parliament of the Third Reich, rubber-stamping Trump's legislation without regular order. It will personally enrich Trump and his family by billions. This is the kleptocracy of the autocrats.
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Republicans were locked out of ACA.
Both parties are to blame for the death of bipartisanship and consensus.
It makes far more sense for some centrist Democrats and some centrist Republicans to come together and create an unbeatable super majority.
1
This is the absolute truth. We no longer have democracy. I have been writing this for weeks. It is over.
Please copy this post to McConnell and Ryan. It frankly states what at least half or more in the country thinks. This is not constitutional democracy. This is a(nother) GOP plundering of the country.
These so called "persons" are disgusting degenerates and will reap what they have sown, 10 fold in the years to come.
Oh, wait. Not so much because their so called "policies" have our all our destinies locked into hellish extinction by a climate too hot to support human and other forms of life.
"So long and Thanks for all the fish!"
16
" by a climate too hot to support human and other forms of life."
Global warming is real but it was not created by the Republicans. It was created by ALL of us, and most of all by the expanding economies of China and India. China emits more than twice the CO2 which the US does. But you are not blaming China because there is no political gain in THAT.
Do you want to SOLVE the problem?
Or do you want to USE the problem to bash Republicans?
It sure looks like the second.
Republicans make me ill.
52
How ironic is this: Republican legislators are opposed to handouts for the poor (Medicaid, food stamps, CHIP) but are all in on handouts for the rich. I can understand why rich people vote Republican. What baffles me is why anyone else does.
185
"Republican senators have a choice. They can follow the will of their donors and vote to take money from the middle class and give it to the wealthiest people in the world. Or they can vote no, to protect the public and the financial health of the government. There’s no compromise on that."
Unfortunately, I suspect that enough Republicans will bow to the will of their big donors to enact the reconciled bills.
If anybody still requires a lesson about the role of money in politics, they need look no further.
40
If anybody still requires a lesson about the role of a cosseted and conceited Supreme Court in the destruction of our jurisprudence and our country, they need look no further.
Our inexorable spiral downward became undeniable with the appointment of Roberts and continues unabated to this day. Much may be laid at the feet of these corrupt and arrogant people in black.
Untalented and doctrinaire men like the Skalia and now the supremely mean and dim Gorsuch have eliminated any hope of a national recovery in the near future.
Our country was never designed to survive this kind of cynicism, this kind of self-serving disregard for the nation.
Yep. Citizens United.
CNN Debate -- Love Ted Cruz invoking JFK name. Couldn't be more outta his league.......
15
Don't hear the word reform much anymore.
24
We read the analysis of seemingly endless discoveries of how one sided this is for the rich, but none of the stories outline a strategy to demand that this bill die.
How do us little people make our voices heard when a few who care not about serving us are hell-bent on ramming this through?
18
Shut this government down!!!
9
We are about to become the United States of Kansas.
46
This president and his republican cohorts are junkies, money junkies and will sacrifice all of us for another fix.
29
Please, NYT and Selma Design, May we use your graphic for our Facebook profile photos?
4
Too bad not a single Democrat will mention CLASS WAR FARE.
9
Senator Mitch McConnell is a moral cypher. He is a nobody without a morality, a faceless gray likeness of a human being. He is everybody and he is nobody. He is your worst nightmare and your best friend. That this man has risen to control the levers of power that he controls is abhorrent. I don't know what he is doing in the Senate. Who would vote for a man like that?
24
Astounding that a political party which has spent the last 35 years shouting the roof off about deficit spending, suddenly is willing to sell the public a tax bill that blows the largest hole imaginable in the deficit, AND is willing to try to shove it through on 50 votes plus the V. P. In fact, the whole thing was written to avoid having to get 60 votes by the cheesy deception that all the personal tax cuts sunset after 10 years (or is it 8) while the corporate cuts go on forever. The deficit as it stands now is about $440 billion/year and it's taken us decades to get to that level. So what's that congress 10 years in the future supposed to do when facing a deficit of $1.4 trillion? People are depressingly stupid... or do I mean revoltingly immoral?
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The current national debt exceeds 20.5 trillion dollars. The FY 2017 deficit was 666 billion dollars. This law most likely will increase the national debt by 1.4 to 2.4 trillion dollars over the next decade. We are in a much worse situation than what you have described. Otherwise, I agree with what you have said.
3
I Hope that no one believed their phony rhetoric on the deficit.
They want to destroy the government, which is all that "We the people" have to protect us from these financial predators.
It looks like they will succeed.
Or is already a done deal?
1
Actually, Tim, I think that's the entire point of this exercise -- put all the American workers' money in the hands of the wealthy and powerful, and then exclaim "we can't possibly sustain such large deficits," so start cutting services.
Ryan has made no secret of the fact that he wants to cut medicare, social security, health care programs, etc. Huge deficits will give him the excuse he needs. In essence, working people and seniors will pay twice, and Trump et al. will be laughing all the way to the bank.
5
The Republican holdouts are being won over by various promises to address their specific concerns whether it is letting millionaires reap even greater profits or pretending there will be some kind of Plan B if the phantom economic gains don't occur (as the majority of top economists believe).
Trump lies. He is a pathological liar. He has lied more than 1,600 times since gaining office last time I checked. Why would any Republican senator be so gullible as to believe a single word that he says? Why would any GOP senator think that whatever promise they have been given won't dissolve in the committee that reconciles the House and the Senate's version? Any deal with Trump isn't worth a tweet in a blackout.
Middle class and poor people are the big losers. Terrible hits to education, medical coverage, city bonds, blue state economies, the deficit, and whatever other harm can be heaped in one stinking pile by the bought GOP senators are evident.
This is a a kleptocratic takeover of American democracy. Completely excluding the other party from major legislation on this scale shows once again that there is no longer representational government.
Every Republican senator who votes for this is voting against the Constitution that he or she took an oath to protect. This is a coup by the GOP kleptocracy, and Trump and his family will reap billions by robbing from the healthcare, education, and taxes of ordinary people.
26
>Completely excluding the other party from major legislation on this scale shows once again that there is no longer representational government.
Like Obamacare, for example.
Brian - The ACA was an open process that took one and a half years, had hundreds of amendments, many committee hearings, and many experts called. There is absolutely no comparison. 6 days versus one and a half years. Zero participation in the process by Democrats. This kind of false equivalency belongs with Fox or Breitbart, and not at the New York Times comment board.
The the rich don't feel that they need the American people anymore.
They have essentially carried out a coup and taken over the country.
The government is run by the rich who don't accept input from the little people anymore. Our "representatives" have had it. The American people need to understand who is boss.
The rich own the country. They don't want to support it in the form of taxes, or in any other way.
As Leona Helmsley famously said. "Taxes are for the little people".
Our elected officials have betrayed us, and now don't need us. They can just vote more money for themselves at will.
They are done with us.
Case closed.
39
Technically, our family is not in not the 1% but we are in the top 2%. And you'd better believe that this ghastly excuse for a tax bill will cost us "bigly" - maybe not in the possible token reduction of federal tax but rather in all the exemptions we now have that will go away add to the total amount we pay to all tax entities. That's a simple fact, attested to by our accountant. There is a special circle of Hades for anyone who votes for this stack of uncut garbage. Thanks for nothing, Republicans.
McConnell wants to ram the bill through this week. Act in haste, repent in leisure. Or hopefully, one day, repent in jail for lying and knowingly and grossly mismanaging our economy. Trump and the Republicans have placed our economic and national security at risk.
Campaigning, Trump promised to make the national debt $O in eight years. Now, at best, it will be $32.5 Trillion in ten years. In his mind this is winning!
We must find a way to hold self-interested Elected Politicians and their staffers, from both parties, personally liable, responsible and accountable for the lies they have told US, their gross mismanagement of our county, our $20.5 T and growing national debt (108% of GDP), and our $100 T in future, unfunded liabilities they forced on US jeopardizing our economic and national security, while benefiting themselves, their staffers, their party and special interest donors.
http://www.usdebtforum.com
15
They unfairness of this boggle the imagination. Here you have someone, Mitch McConnell, who’s home state represents 1.4% of the population of the country ramming this piece of garbage thru in the “dead of night”so as to avoid scrutiny. This is the most unfair piece of legislation I have seen in my 65 years on the planet. The middle class are the ones keeping the country running so the wealthy and everyone else can make money. When are our “representatives” going to do something for us.
Why should “pass through” income be taxed any less than earned income? Someone please enlighten me. Maybe I am just ignorant.
28
They just don’t care.
13
Estate Tax, GONE, AMT GONE, Carried Interest, STAYS. That's all you really need to know to figure out who the big winners will be.
Didn't some guy run for President, repeatedly saying he'd get rid of Carried Interest? He's never been known to lie, has he?
29
The press isn't even asking him those simple questions and pointing out the inconsistencies.
Corporate tax rates largely determine corporate investment and new business creation.
Corporate investment and business creation directly causes productivity gains.
Productivity gains will lead to wage growth.
Wages and marginal tax rates impact labor participation.
This all affects economic growth.
Which increases tax revenue.
Our only hope to manage the debt is through economic growth.
Why is this so difficult for the NYT Editorial Board to grasp. Is it because Obamanomics was such a disaster.
9:24EST
1
This “growth from tax cuts” claim been shown by all evidence to be thoroughly false. It is Voodoo economics, as described for the masses in Ferris Bueller’s Day Off. It has never worked and certainly won’t work now when there is a complete surplus of available capital that is sitting on the sidelines because good opportunities are scarce. If capital was in short supply, such a tax cut might have a purpose in the short-run, but now? Absolutely not, and every honest economist will tell you any additional funds will be used for stock buybacks or dividends and not in (1) wage increases for workers, or (2) increased capital spending. These and other GOP lies are about to wreak havoc on our economy and the little people, sadly. For what? Money for the rich. Not infrastructure or health-care-for-all, but a giveaway... 2018 will be here soon and the GOP will never have a majority again....
23
This is simply not true. Trickle down economics does not work; that has been demonstrated repeatedly. The latest such experiment in Kansas financially broke the state. The state with the best economy in the country, California, also has the the highest taxes. "Obamanomics" was hardly a disaster. His policies enabled us to recover from the crash that occurred as a result of the Republican's last huge tax cut, enacted by the government during the G.W.Bush administration. The economic growth that we are seeing now is a result of Obama era policies. Once the republican's loot the economy again there will be another crash.
22
Trickle down economics are a fantasy. They have not worked since this fantasy took hold in the 80's and they never will. Concentrating more capital in the hands of those who've already got it simply has not resulted in the kindness and generosity that naive people believe in. Indeed, the American middle class has consistently contracted ever since the day that this economic delusion has held sway. We should call this proposed corporate tax cut what it really is: trickle up economics, or, as Billie Holliday once sang, "Them that's got shall get." And get and get and
get...
151
He went around saying "What do you got to lose?" during the campaign.
Well now we know that it turned out to be just about everything we had.
23
"...As a result, up to 13 million could lose coverage, and premiums would rise 10 percent a year for the next 10 years, the C.B.O. says."
Here's a fun little thought exercise: 10% per year for the next ten years = ( 1 + 0.10)^10 = 2.59 = 259%.
This means that over the next decade, all of our health insurance premiums will nearly triple. How is this #MAGA, again?
5
Remember when the republicans claimed they were the party of fiscal responsibility?
Hilarious!
15
It's not just funny now Brad. It's always been funny.
Why do the wiser elements among the wealthy and corporate heads not hold sway? One recent head-scratcher: Gary Cohn's audience with corporate CEO's, very few of which indicated they would make additional capital investment if given a tax cut. Surprised, Cohn laughed it off awkwardly, but was exposed for the naive, presumptuous and dissembling trader he is, rather than a solid economist who should be in his position.
What seems lost is the long term view. Business and the well-off did spectacularly well the last seventy years, and largely did better when there was a tax system that provided stable revenue and a sufficient safety net. The markets and businesses like stability. They don't like government on the brink, or unpredictable. The economy grew better in the '70's, '90's and '10's than at other times during that period - i.e., better under Democratic tax policies than under Republican ones - and was more stable under Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. Look it up. Read Bruce Bartlett's piece in the Guardian, very insightful about the big picture, and the Titanic we're putting to sea: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/20/republican-tax-cut...
The markets like fiscal sanity. The wealthy and business do very well with fiscal sanity. We're heading into another period of fiscal insanity as we did under W and Cheney. Why? To satisfy short-term, tunnel-visioned greed? Or is it spite? The American Experiment wasn't born of spite. But it may die of it.
415
Bartlett’s piece was chilling. It should be required reading.
2
You're first mistake was using the guardian as a reputable source
Of course its greed. The spite is all about greed.
Big donors have corrupted the Republican party. This tax overhaul is designed to satisfied the big donors to the party. Why lower the rate to 20%. 25% would have been just fine. Well because the Koch brothers and Trump are not yet rich enough.
5
Apparently, Donald Trump's mission is to cripple this country's middle class backbone, by systematically dismantling financial, health care and environmental protections, as well as undermining the news media. The GOP controlled congress has been complicit in this, though they know that Trump is incompetent and potentially dangerous. If congress passes this tax bill they will have taken the assault on the people of this country to a new and frightening level. The damage done to this country in less than a year is hard to grasp. for the first time in 70 years I am truly afraid.
18
Strange. this is how a Party behaves when they know something soon will eclipse whatever they do now. I do not get the sense anyone is jockeying to actually be able to defend their support to the public. They are just trying to cobble together a big, bloated, fat tax bill that will not look good going forward.
Unless they know something we don't.
I wonder what the rush is?
3
Can you imagine how horrible this, already, rushed bill would have been if Trump had assigned the arbitrary deadline of Thanksgiving for it's passage? We could be living in an America where corporations would be taxed like churches, the middle class would be given newer and shinier hamster wheels and the poor would be deported. The, supposed, greatest deliberative body is looking more and more like midnight at Walmart on Black Friday.
2
Just when you think they've hit rock bottom, think AGAIN. The GOP, can always be trusted; to do the absolute worst thing for the greatest number of people. It's their Superpower.
11
I don't think that even Charles Dickens saw or experienced the level of disdain, evil and treason on it s citizens as this Republican Congress.
11
All nonrsense. American companies leave trillions offshore because of the highest taxes. They are not competitive and that money needs to come home. Cut the corporate tax rate. As far as personal taxes stop most or more deductions. People cheat. Extending the personal exemption is generous. Forget deducting interest and other none sense. Few people are able to claim the medical deduction. Live within your means and make liberal always spending blue states be held accountable for their pandering to unions. I hope the salt gets nixed.
So you believe in double taxation? The instauration of the federal income tax in 1913 was only accepted under the condition of state tax deductibility. I thought "States come first" was the Republican mantra!
Why so much reward to so few? Where is common sense and fairness?
8
Corker has already sold his soul out for a few pieces of silver and is now a yes vote.
6
Accomplish one thing at any price.Mushrum the deficit,give to the wealthy raise taxes on hard working Americans continue to destroy the ACA and proclaim
a triumph for those in need.The height of deception double talk and hypocrisy
6
The grotesque bill before us can hold silver linings.
First, it gives the few Republicans with spines a chance to shine by denouncing this as the fraud on the non wealthy it is.
Second, those who kowtow to moneyed interests and to the Bully-in-Chief by supporting it should pay at the polls next year, come what may to the legislation.
1
We are watching the congressional Republican's version of a TV game show where contestants have 60-seconds to hoard all the free merchandise they can into shopping carts.
This is strictly a grab & run bonanza that has no interest in serving the better welfare of the nation. Democrats are apoplectic while the Republican base could not care less and are fixated on putting Hillary into prison.
Think of a pack of hyenas (Republicans) savagely ripping apart the huge carcass (the national treasury) and you have a clear visualization of what the United States has devolved into.
7
There was actually a time when Senators compromised across the aisle—not always and not when we always wished, but they comprised. Now compromise is a word used to describe bowing to a few arrogant, thick-skulled elected officials looking for campaign donations.
2
It is past time that working people all over USA to organize to restore some sense to our economy. This group is just using your frustration to rewrite the rules so they can steal more without ever really working at it. It is my hopes that people in the midwest and south decide to get on board with the independent voters and just throw all those crooks out - then reverse everything they did.
Obviously they have no respect for the hard working folks.
3
Dear Republican Senators,
You are doing this all wrong. Here is how you could keep the core principles of "tax reform" and simplification, while being deficit neutral at worst.
1. Tax all capital gains, dividends, and carried interest as ordinary income.
2. Lower the corporate tax rate, but not all the way to 20%.
3. Lower the individual tax bracket rates across the board.
Estimate how much revenue would be generated by #1, and spread the benefits to #2 and #3 such that the deficit will not increase.
By doing this, you could lower the corporate tax rate, offer a real middle class tax cut, and reduce the tax rate (on earned income) for the highest incomes, including small business owners.
This would result in a much simpler and fairer tax code.
I guess the only problem is that this plan would not be a clear giveaway to the wealthiest Americans - and to the beneficiaries of passive unearned income.
14
The Republicans in the House, Senate and Whitehouse are raising our taxes, and adding trillions to our national debt.
Remember when the Republicans used to care about the deficit? Well, that was clearly a lie.
And to make things worse for us average Americans, House Speaker Republican Paul Ryan alreadly announced that the next legislation they will push will be to cut Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. Why? He said with a straight face that our deficit is too high! Now that takes shameless audacity!
We simply must vote these Republicans out of office at every level just to protect what little crumbs they will leave us with.
1098
The Republicans only complain about deficits when the Democrats are in power.
When Republicans are in power, the deficit always hits a new high.
3
Jerry, the GOP is not even trying to lie creatively anymore. They know this bill is For Donors Only, and they know that anyone with the sense of a goat knows it. They only care about continuing to fool the weak-minded, who believe everything they say, and can't connect the dots from one headline to the next.
2
For Republicans, deficits are bad if the money is used to invest in infrastructure and education or to help build a better economy in the future. Deficits are bad if the money is used to help the working poor or middle class or to provide healthcare for most people. Deficits are good if they put more money in the pockets of rich donors who do not need the money and continue the ineluctable march toward oligarchy.
The aim is to shrink those parts of government that do not directly benefit the rich. The only thing the Republicans want government to do is protect the property rights of the 1% and suppress any attempt by the 99% to regain power.
1
If this bill passes, the country as we know it is done. Senators like Corker talk a good game but do nothing when it counts. What the Democrats should do is let it be known that they will not hold talks to keep the government running if this bill passes in its current form. That's right! Put a stake in the ground and say enough is enough. Make the Republicans think twice about this. And if Trump blames the Democrats? Go ahead and tell the American people the truth about this bill - facts from non-partisan sources. It's now or never.
9
The reality is that from the viewpoint of Republican Politicians, the political blowback from accomplishing absolutely nothing after having taken the White House and a majority in Congress, is more dire then whatever ill effects result from this terrible tax legislation. It's pointless to go line by line through the code deciphering all the ways in which the new legislation helps dismantle the middle-class, since the constituents who are ultimately the individuals responsible for voting said Republicans in to office undoubtably do not read this publication.
7
If the Republican goal is to simplify the tax code as Paul Ryan declares (a postcard... you can file on a postcard!), then I suggest that they simply cut out the middleman.
Which billionaire or millionaire should I send my tax money to? Do I make weekly payments? Can my company withhold money and send it to my billionaire?
I mean, who needs government, right? That's a Republican thing, right?
14
This is nothing more than a wholesale betrayal of America. It is being pulled off with no hearings, no input from other than Republican Senators, and no honest cooperation across the aisle. This is perhaps the biggest sell out in American political history.
12
One of the few statements trump has made could be true - amazingly. That he will not earn a salary as president.
However, I wonder if that means his first and second quarter payments will "pass-through" the National Parks and Department of Education respectively and into his legal payments or offshore account?
5
The presidential salary is chump change compared to what Trump has already gained in emoluments and what he and is sproglodytes stand to gain from this tax "reform."
Not a single one of the Republican senators are really fighting for the middle and working classes. Not one in 51.
1
I have been watching the back and forth over the tax bill and have a question:
Is it possible to cut any money from any program in the federal budget?
Of course it is, they'll cut money from any program that helps the poor and working class.
1
Assuming that the middle class tax cuts are temporary violates all precedent. Once tax cuts are enacted they are always renewed. That was true of the Bush tax cuts and it will be true of these tax cuts. The 5 year limit allows Congress to utilize budget reconciliation to assure enactment of the tax bill with 51 votes. Five years down the line, the tax cuts will be renewed because they always are. The Democrats are ignoring reality to get favorable numbers. There will be middle class tax cuts for 5 years and forever beyond that. Arguing otherwise is better known as lying.
Raising taxes on 25% of the middle class is not exactly a tax cut.
5
Republican senators don't have a choice. If they don't quickly pass a generous redistribution of wealth to wealthy donors, those donors will fund other candidates in next year's primaries who show greater ability to deliver return on investment.
Donors lost confidence in current purchased senators after those senators failed to deliver the first round of redistribution in the guise of an abominable "health care" bill. That cast serious doubt on Republicans' ability to legislate anything. Even though they bypassed the normal legislative process of public hearings, and used "reconciliation" to ensure an entirely partisan vote. Even though their eagerness to deprive up to 32 million non-wealthy people of health care clearly showed donors an appropriate contempt for "takers." They still failed, and donors are unhappy.
With their jobs and power on the line, desperate Republicans will do anything to ram through a tax cut that will restore donors' confidence in them (and their cash). If that means raising taxes on non-wealthy people, leaving 13 million to suffer and die without health care, and exploding the deficit, they'll do it. It's pure selfishness. Their jobs, their party, and their donors are all that matter. Everyone and everything else is expendable.
Besides, they don't have to worry about voter backlash. Their "base" will vote Republican no matter what. Gerrymandering, voter suppression, and perhaps help from Russian friends will take care of the rest.
746
"Republican senators don't have a choice." Yes they do. They can change parties.
Give em guns and religion, and they'll forgive all the rest.
1
The question We the People need to be asking of republicans; do they intend genocide or just mass murder with their craven disregard for the lives of the American people? republicans have all the family values of the Manson family.
1
Opponents need the right words to describe the perfidy of this bill. We are losing to the scam artist in chief. The scam is a pittance now in exchange for massive costs later. But we need words, otherwise, the GOP will get away with the whole thing. I confess I cannot find the words. Can anyone help?
3
If the Republicans get this bill through, let's hope that their constituents will feel enough pain before 2020 to have a turnover to Democratic control of both Congress and the presidency, and the result will be a significant rise in taxes on the top one percent, as well as the corporate tax rate to get us back to a more even keel.
2
News flash folks. Republicans don't care about you -- at all. And if you think this is bad, wait for it. They will use the deficits created by this monster to come back and say that must reform entitlements. Reform in their mind will mean "gut them". Social Security will be privatized and grandma actually will get a $2500 voucher for her medicare. Remember they want to take us all back to the 80s. The 1880s.
14
Uh, we needed to reform entitlements 20 years ago, we do now, and we still will need to do so if this tax bill is passed.
Entitlements are out of control, particularly Medicare and Medicaid.
Where is the voice of the Democratic Party leadership, offering clear alternatives to this terrible giveaway to the wealthy and corporations? Is it because this same leadership (campaigns paid for by corporations and the rich) basically approve? Where is the voice for the working and middle classes? The only real sign of opposition I've heard of -other than token tut-tutting - is Bernie Sanders, who is setting off on a road tour to stir up protest out in the states.
We, the "ordinary people", seem to have no representation at all.
6
Have you noticed that none of the major news outlets are interviewing Democrats or giving them much press coverage?
1
Our family will pay higher taxes with this bill, because we don't own a pass-through company, and most of our income is from wages. But, here's the grenade I'm going to throw into this discussion (and I suspect many of my fellow Times readers are in the same boat), we can afford to pay higher taxes, so this is not a big deal for us. We are irritated that our tax increase will provide welfare to billionaires, but it's not going to break the bank for us.
This tax bill will be a huge blow for low-income households (which tended to vote for Trump and Republicans, generally), so perhaps we should just let this play out and see what happens. Will the base finally get wise to the con that has been decades in the making, or will they follow Trump off this cliff?
490
No one can afford to pay higher taxes to line the pockets of the 1%. No one.
If this money was going to climate change adaption, paying for the infrastructure work we so dearly need, supporting education, lowering the ridiculous education loans so many young people are struggling under or something that would help this country's future, yes, some of us could afford the higher taxes.
But unless you are very wealthy, those higher tax bills need to come from somewhere, probably your disposal income, so that means charitable contributions will be going down.
This bill explodes our taxes, and will create a real dent in our discretionary spending, which in turn means less demand, which in turn means layoffs at factories and restaurants.
13
The problem is that, as Trump already started to do yesterday, the Republicants will blame the Democrats, who were fully excluded from any input into the bill. Then Trump’s low information base will believe it.
It needs to be stopped now.
11
How nice for you, Carrie, that you know for sure that your pay will not decrease, that your health will not suffer, and that your infrastructure will remain dependable even with the tax giveaways to the ultra wealthy. I am not as confident as you are. I am a wage earner, too, but I am not one hundred percent sure that I will always and forever have enough income to cover this boondoggle.
4
Well there's 62,000,000 that voted for Trump and this Republican Congress, and they too will pay for their votes with smaller paychecks just like the rest of us. And maybe, just maybe in a few years we can reverse this nightmare. If not sooner.
16
Trickle down has never worked. EVER. The fact that this utter failure is being crammed thru Congress for a signature is absolute proof of how the Republican party is in love with lies.
Lower taxes doesn't cause companies to hire more workers. PERIOD. Only demand causes that to happen.
21
Remember when we were told Trump was a populist because he wanted to tax hedge fund managers? We are used to this by now, we are a nation of lies, no better than Brezhnev's Russia
13
it’s 1984
where up is down and down is up
Vote the bums out in 2018
them look go them up for theft.....
of the American Dream
5
This tax scheme comes from minds that I can't fathom. As an average American, I foresee myself huddled in my house in winter wearing coat, hat and scarf in order to save on my heating bill. And only shopping for the most essential of food items and clothing. I like to think that this tax scam will come back to bite them. But, hey, they have billions already to recline on in comfort.
9
Make no mistake; Ron Johnson will vote for this bill, not matter what. What he is doing now is simple posturing. Of all the senate races in 2016, the re-election of this dimmest of bulbs was the most galling.
With plutocratic water-carriers like Johnson, Paul Ryan, and Scott Walker in place, it begs the question:
What's the matter with Wisconsin?
18
I live here -- albeit in the 60 miles surrounded by reality -- and I still can't answer that.
The holdouts will cave. This is a done deal. The Republicans are desperate to give tax breaks to their donors but are even more excited about destroying Social Security and Medicare. McConnell and his cohorts will give Collins and the other "moderates" ("Republican Moderate"- an oxymoron) enough to assuage them. Since 1980 (and maybe even before that) the Republicans have salivated at the thought of reversing the major social/economic programs of the New Deal and Great Society. Establishing a permanent aristocracy with an oligarchic government is the goal. This bill will become law. Years from now (how many, I do not know) the people will face one of two types of government/economic systems- either we will have Fascism, or the people will pick up their proverbial pitchforks and establish a Democratic/Socialist state. This awful tax bill should be the breaking point- we'll see.
885
Our democracy is virtually dead. Congress and the supreme court, don't even think about the WH, could not show their contempt for the citizens of this country any more blatantly. I daily come closer to believing that outright revolt is the only end possible. Make people desperate enough with nothing to lose and no options and the pitchforks will be pulled out of the barn.
What the reactionary right is doing is a dangerous game. They are betting on their militarized police to obey and protect them like trained dogs. That will work until even the police figure out they are being had. They pay taxes on relatively modest incomes, too.
3
I thought tar and feathering was the historical American response to unfair taxation.
1
Yep. Bruce Bartlett--who served as an advisor to Ronald Reagan and George H. Bush--describes the Republicans cynical strategy here.
"Republican tax cuts will hurt Americans and Democrats will pay the price"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/20/republican-tax-cut...
1
Republicans like to talk about how great this will be, but think about their logic.
Make America great again by further impoverishing poor Americans and raising taxes on middle class Americans? Make the country stronger by weakening health insurance? Improve the country as a whole by raising our national debt? Increase tax revenues by giving the already wealthy more money? Continue to ignore our crumbling infrastructure by always claiming that we can’t borrow the money from ourselves, because it will increase the debt, but having no problem giving it away to the rich who will park much of it offshore, thereby doing no one else in America any good.
This is what they will say after they pass their bill and it will be the one honest thing that they will say. SUCKERS!
49
TheraP wrote, "I do agree about the counting though! But first we need the votes!"
It's not possible that extreme right-wing Republicans should have 2/3 of the state legislatures and governorships, a large majority in the House, and a small majority in the Senate when three Senate races were suspect in 2016 alone.
Since we moved to computerized voting in 2002, exit polls have shown:
- vote counts shifting in one direction (to the right), statistically impossible
- discrepancies appear in competitive races, not in noncompetitive races
- hand counted ballots and computer counts are congruent in non-competitive elections, but not in competitive elections
- non-congruence between small precincts and large counties (it's easier to manipulate votes in large districts)
- in 2010, with 300 safe House seats Republicans won an unprecedented 128 seats by a modest margin in the national vote count; they won all the close races, they should break about even
- in 2014, with the GOP House approval rating at an all-time low (about 8%), the 'Party of No' gained more seats
- progressive ballot measures have passed by wide margins (even in non-blue states), yet the explanation given by the media for Republican “wins” was that voters "simply didn't vote for Democrats"
For more analysis, follow Jonathan Simon's interviews at http://codered2014.com/. Simon was a pollster early in his career. He is the author of "Code Red: Computerized Election Theft and the New American Century."
25
"their enormously unpopular tax bill, which lavishes benefits on corporations and wealthy families, more generous to real estate tycoons and hedge fund billionaires"
Republicans have been working on this bill for more than a year, they have been saying that their intention is to cut taxes for the middle class and not for the rich people or in particular for Donald Trump. Finally they have come up with this bill. Whatever the tax tax cut they have proposed for the middle class, that comes with an expiry date, the tax cuts will vanish by year 2025 and then the middle class will start paying more in taxes but the super rich and corporations will continue to benefit , the middle class will see cuts in Medicare,Medicaid and other social programs, this is a clear betrayal.
31
Why don't the Democrats have an alternative? Real tax reform, that taxes all income instead of loopholes for the rich, that cuts taxes for the middle class but not for those making out like bandits already, and that does not make the rich richer?
Ordinary people ought to be aware what real reform could do for them, and how the Republicans are proposing, and Donald Trump is ready to sign. a bill that shafts the overwhelming majority of those who voted for Trump for president.
16
Excellent idea, particularly if one had been ready before the 2016 elections. But when bills are rushed through behind closed doors, it;s much harder to figure out what tax reform should look like.
4
You might consider that republicans hold majorities in the House and Senate. That's why the Democrats don't have a plan--it would go nowhere.
7
He will be signing a HUGE check - to himself!
1
Pass through entities with preferred tax treatment is critical for middle class entrepreneurs and small business owners. Architects, consultants, lawyers, doctors, private nurses, therapists, mechanics, carpenters, and plumbers all benefit greatly from the current pass through tax structure.
Under the current tax structure the owner(s) of the business takes a small salary from the operating profit of the business. This is taxed as ordinary income, additionally the business owner must pay 12.4% in Social Security tax and 2.9% in Medicare tax because they are self employed (a worker would only pay 6.2% and 1.45%, respectively, with their employer making matching contributions). Any profit that is left in the business is untaxed. After a year that profit is then "passed through" to the owner(s) in the form of a disbursement which is taxed as capital gains (15% below $400k) and is not subject to income, SS, or Medicare taxes. This tax break is essential for people who do not have the benefit of a steady pay check from an employer.
Why is everyone cheering a tax cut for corporations that already have more profit than they know what to do with and ganging up on small business owners who are going to be left out to dry?
18
The problem is that there is no top limit on pass through income. When such a law was passed in Michigan the DeVos', VanAndels and Haworths got substantial tax cuts. Their solely owned companies are hardly small business. That same year the State of Michigan began taxing retirement income for retirees younger than 70. The above got $15,000 or more tax cut while my taxes went up $2000. Now I actually think the State of Michigan needed my $2000. I don't think, however, that the Haworths needed a $15,000 tax cut.
20
Trump has hundreds of these pass-through entities. Doesn’t he?
1
Because the big boys are purchasing Congress. I guess you're not ponying up enough cash to get Republicans' attention.
1