Hey, wait until you try to fly. Beginning in late January, you won't be able to get on an airplane without a federally approved I.D. Getting a state voter I.D is easy compared to that. Fortunately my state, Delaware has had approved REAL ID driver's licenses for years, so we don't have a problem. This will affect those with dysfunctional state governments as well as old people everywhere.
At age 88 my mother moved to my state from California. In order to obtain her new state-issued ID, she needed certificates from marriages in 1944 and 1951, a death certificate from 1950, a birth certificate from 1922, all in various cities in another state. Luckily for her, a relative who is a lawyer was able to obtain all the certificates so she could prove her name changes and identity. This allowed her to obtain the ID to vote. Indeed, the very old are at a disadvantage.
5
"States could help older voters cast ballots, experts said. Why can’t someone who no longer drives nevertheless use an expired license as a voter ID?"
Probably for the same reason you can't cash a check with an expired drivers license, or buy alcohol, wine or beer at the grocery store without one. My grandmother was not allowed to cash a check anywhere except at the bank where she had her account because her drivers license was expired and no longer considered a valid photo ID for check cashing purposes. No matter that it was pretty darn obvious that it was her. Ditto at the grocery store where they card everyone these days just to buy a bottle of wine.
This is a tempest in a teapot. My cousin took my grandmother to the DMV to get her state issued photo ID, and I took my mother to get hers when the time came. Neither one of them was required to produce a birth certificate; you just turn in the expired drivers license, pay a fee, and they issue the ID, which looks like a drivers license, btw.
As for the polls not being handicap accessible or difficult to get to, Louisiana makes it very easy to do mail-in ballots. The mail-in period is the same as the early voting period, so you have about a week to get it done. My mother lives in an assisted living facility and the Registrar of Voters comes once a year to sign up everyone who needs it.
If you did need a copy of a lost birth certificate btw, the Office of Public Records will give you a certified copy for fee. No problem.
4
Old people, young people, working people just making ends meet, rural people, people without cars, "those" people (of color), gotta bust that vote. Send 'em a postcard and if the spelling isn't quite right, knock 'em off the list. If they've moved, they're out of luck. If they have a name that overlaps with someone else, if they've ever been unfairly arrested and bullied and accepted a plea instead of fighting the lies, they're out of luck.
So evil!
1
As I read this, I can't help putting in a plug for our voting system here in Washington state. We vote by mail -- the ballot comes to us by mail about three weeks before the election deadline, and we return it through the mail or by dropping it in a ballot box that looks similar to a postal mail box. I have loved this system ever since we adopted it. No more having to get up early to go to the polls before work or remembering to stop on the way home. No more having to brave wind or rain or snow in order to cast a ballot. It also gives us plenty of time to research ballot issues, initiatives, referenda and candidates. It works well for voters of all ages but especially for older voters, who may have a harder time getting to the voting place or may receive confusing information about voter ID. Our return ballot includes a place for the voter's signature; all signatures are checked against the voter registration signature on file at the county's election office. So far I have not heard of any election fraud caused by this method of voting.
3
I think Oregon does the same thing.
I think it is important that older people are able to vote. When I lived in NYC, I remember the voting books where we signed our names. One drawback of this system is that the books are seldom updated. My family member passed away, and his name remained on the books for years. I mentioned it every year to the workers, but it seems nobody is able to do anything about it.
We have not been showing ID in New York. Isn't the ID requirement only in certain red states -- in the south? Here they look my name up in the book that shows my signature and they have me sign again.
2
Our elected officials do all they can to restrict voting yet people claim this is a democracy?
I have always thought that, at the very least, voting regulations for federal offices should be under federal statute. Now, I’m not so sure.
My dad served in the Big One. In 2008, he really wanted to vote in the presidential election, but wasn't sure he could, as his driver's license had expired. He no longer could drive, and navigating the license renewal process wasn't practical for him. I couldn't help, as I Iived far away.
He passed away in 2009. I never will know if he succeeded in voting. They sent a bugler to his funeral, which was nice, but I think he rather would have voted.
1
My mother voted in every election she could from the time she turned 21 (the voting age at the time) until 2013 when she moved from NJ to a continuing care retirement community in Pennsylvania where everything was included. She gave up her car. To obtain appropriate photo ID with her address (a non-driver's card) she would need a utility bill or lease (of which she had neither) and two other "official documents" showing her address, like a tax bill or bank statement. Well, no tax bill but a bank statement. We tried. More than once. Never was able to give them what they wanted. So at the age of 92, she was deprived of her constitutional right - having been born one year after women gained the right to vote - because she could not "prove" who she was because her passport had expired and her NJ driver's license was not considered valid by PA because it didn't have a picture.
Shameful.
10
In my state getting a non-driver's ID can be very complicated-even for holders of unexpired US passports. Take my kid. Staff of the Motor Vehicle Admin., issuers of non-driver ID, said, under then-current state law, a valid unexpired US passport, that he had with him, was considered SECONDARY ID and the person seeking non-driver ID had to show TWO PRIMARY IDs TWO secondary ID. He had a certified copy of his birth certificate--one primary ID. He had tax returns, Selective Service card, student loan notes. No dice...The Selective Service card could be a "secondary ID" along with the passport. Nothing we had could be the second required "PRIMARY ID."
BUT, WAIT, they said his Social Security card could be the second "PRIMARY ID."HA! He was temporarily living out of country and his SS card was there.
BUT WAIT again. MVA staff directed us to go to the Social Security office, report his SS card as lost, have him apply for a replacement SS card, using as ID the birth certificate and the same passport MVA would not accept but which SSA would as proof of ID. He was then to ask SSA staff to write a letter saying he had applied for a replacement SS card, bring that letter to MVA--which they would accept the letter the second "primary ID!" MVA staff said they "did this all the time." He gave up, brought his SS card on the next trip home and got his non-driver ID. Suppose he was 80 or 90...
(The law has since changed; MVA accepts passports as primary ID--should have all along!")
2
Paula: I'd really like to see this! In the over 50 years that I've been voting in New Jersey (I vote in every election), in at least 3 jurisdictions (the last my residence for 30+ years) I have never, ever been challenged to produce either my non-photo, county Voter Registration card and/or my DL, Passport or other photo ID. I've only ever been asked to print and sign my name in the "book", which contains an exemplar of my signature. I always give the mostly elderly volunteers manning the booth a hard time by insisting that they examine my VR card and DL. They just giggle and glance at them and then make sign in the book. I'm glad to learn it's not like that everywhere
2
I wonder if the disparate voting rate between seniors and others would stay the same if Election Day were a national holiday or held on a weekend. I suspect retired folks vote at higher rates because they have fewer time commitments to juggle.
I'd like to mention two items in regard to this article. 1. Birth certificate? To prove ID or age? I'd think more for age, and if a person is over, say, eighty years of age, who needs a birth certificate to prove voting age eligibility? It's somewhat obvious. 2. Use of automobile driver's license or passport, with a recently expired date, are not being offered for driving or traveling, but for identification. Again, there should be no objection. ---Alan Flacks
2
Long story short, when my 88year old mother moved in with us in Texas she no longer had a valid license and the expired one did not have a photo. Texas had just passed a voter ID law. She was denied an ID because her birth certificate issued in NJ in 1921 had her first name spelled in the Polish manner while the stack of other documents spelled her name in the English manner. She wound up registering on line and voting absentee.
2
Easy solution vote absentee. If I was in a wheel chair that is what I would do.
2
Maybe you missed this part of the article:
"Moreover, using an absentee ballot has grown more difficult. Some states already limit the acceptable reasons for not voting in person.
"Now, new legislation in some states forbids helpers — churches, civic groups, unions — from collecting and mailing absentee ballots, a potential hardship for older voters who can’t get to a post office or mailbox themselves.
"How such changes may have affected election results “turns out to be a complicated social science question,” Dr. Hasen said. But it’s also the wrong question, he added: “The focus should be on why any eligible voter should be disenfranchised.”
6
Louisiana makes it very easy to vote absentee, especially for the elderly and the handicapped. That's what my mother does, and she lives in an assisted living facility. In fact, the Registrar of Voters sends an employee to the facility once a year to sign up anyone not already enrolled. After that, each enrollee is mailed a ballot before each election (including runoffs) and they just mail it back. The mail in period is usually the same as the early voting period. The assisted living has an "out-going" mail box for all mail, not just the ballots, so nobody has to even drive to the post office or find a mail box. It's in the lobby.
1
There is no right to vote in the Constitution. There should be -- were I a Congrescritter, I'd propose that amendment.
5
In Oregon, we have a fraud-proof vote by mail system that would eliminate just about every one of these barriers. It also eliminates any kind of hacking, and has been proven over many years NOT to favor one party or another. A couple of other states have followed suit. If we cared about voting in this country, we would adopt it nationwide. Of course, it would put a lot of voting machine manufacturers out of business -- and we can't have that. How would the Russians weigh in?
10
The problem here is your commenters seem to be deluded that they live in a democracy.
This is not a democratic country.
10
It's interesting to read the comments of those who so glibly say that everyone has, or should have ID and if they don't, tough nougies.
But let's consider a few things. Historically, not only was no ID required in this country, but people could and did move and reinvent themselves. It is still perfectly legal to do that (if it is not for a fraudulent purpose), but not legal to get an ID under the new name!
I went to Home Depot last night. I bought a few plumbing fittings. I paid with a gift card (2/3 of the cost) and put the balance on my credit card. I realized that I had bought two items that I didn't need. They cost less than the amount charged on the credit card, but the store would not refund the money to my credit card. They insisted on ID, even though no ID had been required to make the purchase.
Now I ma confident that my bank will refund the money, and the attorney-general will punish them for failing to properly post the refund policy, but what of the undocumented "illegal" immigrant, or the merely undocumented elderly who were born here? Even with $1 million in the bank, they won't get a refund at Home Depot!
That is why I urged my assemblywoman (now county clerk) to pass a law making it a felony to be a Republicker.
7
Took my 84 year old mother to get an ID card in New Mexico when her driver's license expired. It took two days and three visits to gather the required documents to prove who she is and where she lives. The requirements were daunting (her marriage certificate, as an example, after 60-some years of marriage). Had I not been there to drive her and help her search for the documents, bills, and papers, she would have given up. She was insulted and frustrated. I cannot imagine how many elderly people will be thwarted by the process.
17
Keep your license until you get that ID card, no issue then.
2
vulcanalex, In some states driver's licenses don''t renew with just a fee after a certain age, I've no idea whether New Mexico is one of those.
Voting should be done by mail which would alleviate many problems of getting to the polling place. As for photo IDs, many seniors on fixed income cannot afford to get a photo ID so fewer vote.
11
Voting should be a community activity out in the open. Voting precincts should be smaller to allow for easier participation.
5
And no possibility of say someone getting people in a nursing home to vote by mail for those that someone other than them desires???
2
How often to you surmise that happens and why do you even think so?
Rubbish. I live in an apartment complex with 180+ elderly people. Most of them were born in Asia or Russia. Many of them have become citizens and vote regularly. They all know the importance of a photographic ID and never have any trouble producing one.
8
In the process of becoming citizens, their "documents" were reborn. There was no searching for documents of "home births" or the counties which may have recorded divorces or marriages kept secret from families. Plus many of the citizens of many other countries understand the importance of "papers" which are asked for with or without reason by authoritarian governments which restrict movement within countries. The elderly people with whom you live do not get evicted, do not have trouble with utilities, do not have trouble producing two bills at their current address to prove their address. Please be more understanding of the facts of life other people must deal with in proving who they are and where they live from one voting precinct to another.
5
The question of my "understanding" is not an issue. As I spend much of my time dealing with homeless (and frequently addicted) veterans I understand that many people have trouble dealing with the vicissitudes of life. But also I know that adults (unless mentally or physically impaired) are expected to be able to handle their own affairs, part of which is procuring and securing necessary documents. Perhaps we should adopt the procedures used in many countries - including democratic ones - that requires individuals to produce documents on demand. Perhaps US citizens need to "grow up" and begin to understand that they are responsible for securing the documents required to participate fully in American life. They certainly never will if attitudes such as yours (which assumes adults are simply grown-up children) becomes the norm.
1
@ octavian Wow. I applaud and thank you for your service in helping veterans, but some tough love attitude there. I agree that adults should to the end of their lives have the capability of dealing with what comes their way from their governments.
However, as the comments and the article indicate, there is a purposeful agenda at work to keep voters likely to vote for one party rather than another from voting. Selecting which IDs are acceptable and what documents are needed to get those IDs is one way to achieve that aim. States with good, non-partisan governments make every effort to register and provide voting (either in person or by absentee) for every state resident eligible to vote.
Many states are failing to do this. They are almost always the states that used to be covered under the Civil Rights Act whose election laws were monitored to prevent the state from re-enacting any form of "Jim Crow" laws. Law suits now bring the evidence to light. It remains to be seen if the Supreme Court as political as it has become will keep the right to vote a sacred right or not.
It is not the fault of the person who can't manage to get the proper ID to vote; it the fault of the controlled state government who does not want that person to vote. Wisconsin is a good example of this especially in closing DMV locations or restricting hours.
1
Humm.... It's not clear to me. Are you saying that the ID laws widely thought to be designed to suppress Democratic votes is, on balance, suppressing more Republican votes?
6
Possibly, in the elderly population - but they're not the only demographic being squelched by voter ID laws, or by voter suppression overall.
ID laws are just one leg of the GOP vote suppression strategy.
1
Aren't "elderly" white males a significant portion of the GOP constituency? You know, those that easily remember the 1950s, and who long for the days where white males ruled the roost? (MAGA and all that?) If that's the case, these egregious policies could backfire...
2
Have any critics of voter id requirements ever lived anywhere else?
It would be laughable in most western European countries to show up at a polling place with no id, and not just any id, either: usually the national carte d'identite.
In modern communities where we don't know each other, getting benefits from a third party (the government, for example) rightfully requires some effort. You think signing up for Medicare, or Obamacare, or getting a SS number is effortless?
American objection to rigorous voter id standards is a proxy for racial resentment. If you think it can have perverse effects, then volunteer in your community to assist the elderly!
2
@CZX
If it were just ANY id, then it wouldn't be a problem. But you and I both know that isn't the case with just about all of the new voterID rules. They are specific, state-mandated, requirements...and this coming from the party that spent decades railing against 'government overreach' and intrusion.
The days of proving residence by bringing a utility bill or a bank statement are long over. And you can exclusively blame the GOP for creating this adversarial relationship between voters and their right to vote. I hope Republicans can sleep knowing they're undermining the very democracy they claim to care so much about, all because they've given into a Fear that has been roundly disproven and debunked.
And the cost of the irrational Fear is a loss of participation by millions who are otherwise willing and able to participate in their constitutional responsibility as citizens. But other citizens are willing to sacrifice those citizens in order to assuage their (irrational) fears. It's not unlike the rescued throwing their rescuers overboard in order to increase their chances of survival. It's never pretty when the civilized begin to lose their civilization.
16
Well babies get SSNs now. (:
But, these older folks, with very very few exceptions, already have SSNs. And, guess what, if you lose your SS card, you can get a replacement ONLINE if you have a mySS acount with SSA. Ditto, you can sign up for Medicare ONLINE. And last I looked, you go ONLINE to sign up for Obamacare, which does not apply to most older folks discussed here who have Medicare and perhaps Medicare supplemental.
If an online replacement for a SS card is fine with the SSA, why require all of this in-person nonsense for photo IDs? If they want to vote, maybe have people over a certain age able to bring their SS cards and Medicare cards as ID along with something with their current address.
6
In Canada, a person can show up with two documents (one can be a library card and one can be a debit card) and as long as one shows current address, these are acceptable IDs for the polls. Seems like there are "modern communities" in Canada. I would suggest that American obsession with disenfranchising citizens at the polls is actual racial resentment - no proxy here.
7
Please factor in that a growing number of senior citizens have memory problems. That should not preclude being able to vote in your town. Voting looks the way it does because of the way we think.
If the goal is getting everyone's vote in a democracy to pick the best representative, then solutions will come from that. It will look different than if you are paranoid and trying to cut people out. Put a young person in charge.
6
When I have seen reports that up to 50% of people over the age of 85 have sufficient cognitive impairment to qualify as having dementia, seeing the 60% voter participation number for that age range is concerning.
5
In Washington state voting is done by mail. All registered voters receive a ballot and voter's pamphlet in the mail, and the ballot is returned by mail. This would solve most of the problems described in the article
19
Recently, in Washington they have placed ballot boxes, in which you may put your sealed postal ballot (without a stamp), in prominent public locations, such as near my local library. These have proven very popular. Many people have argued that voters shouldn't need to supply their own stamps - I have even heard it argued that millenials don't know how to use postal mail, which I would not have believed if I hadn't worked with a guy in his 20s whom I had to instruct as to how to address an envelope. The one drawback of Washington's system that I can see is that the voter may not be guaranteed privacy as he or she would be at a polling place.
4
There's one at my local fire station and at the library too.
2
Sure and when your elderly parent gets that mail they can vote for you and maybe not as you would vote either.
2
Insisting on paper identification documents for whatever purpose -- driving, flying, voting, crossing international borders -- seems to be missing the point that we are now in the 21st century with all sorts of other identification technologies at our fingertips.
Identification documents are easily forged or lost or stolen or expired. Even credit card issuers seem to lack imagination when it comes to security. Why not start thinking outside the box? Maybe move to biometric databases using fingerprints or iris scans? There must be a better way.
14
But imposing ID requirements, tightening any and all of them, and making it tougher to vote is INTENTIONAL. That way, "liberal" voters and the older person who WILL vote, and older people account for a huge part of the voter base, can be kept out of the polling place. It's part of a plan. On the part of the right wing. I'm no fan of the word "conspiracy," but if it looks like, feels like, smells like, well ...
13
@Ponderer
Just because something CAN be done doesn't mean it IS being done. You are arguing from the point of Fear, fear that something is happening that every investigation has shown is NOT happening. Therefore, the remedy--VoterID--is a solution looking for a problem. But the price for that 'solution' is happening in spite of there being no evidence of the 'problem'! We are sacrificing the valid votes of valid citizens by acting on a FEAR that something that isn't happening is actually happening! How crazy is that? If we lived the rest of our lives like that, we'd never get out of bed.
5
They are??? Not around here. Very few would allow fingerprints or iris scans into a government database, only criminals or people with security clearances do that.
1
My husband and I moved to Alabama and it took us two days to register to vote. Others in line for hours to obtain IDs just left. This is the way they suppress the vote in Alabama. Additionally, my Dad is 86 and did not have a birth certificate because he was delivered by a "granny" midwife back in the 1930s. It is very hard to get an ID/Driver's license in Alabama. We were persistent so that we could vote against Roy Moore, but we are the lucky ones who have a flexible work schedule. I'm sure other's just give up...
69
Something is wrong in a society when registering to vote is made more difficult. I have registered to vote twice in Alabama, 47 years ago and 30 years ago, and once in Ohio 37 years ago. Each time took fifteen minutes or less.
3
I never imagined that the United States, of all countries, would be the one to make the act of VOTING(!!!) a suspicious activity, to be met with adversarial rules and attitudes.
Rather than accept the reality and purpose of any Democracy--that it is a decisionmaking process and contest that REQUIRES there be a loser--we've brainwashed ourselves into a desire that the only acceptable outcome is 'winning'. If we don't reconsider this attitude, we're lost as a nation.
There IS no democracy if we can no longer accept being on the losing side. But, but, but...it MUST be a transparent and fair process! Something we, unfortunately, don't have today in much of the nation.
10
The people working diligently to prevent others from voting don't WANT this to be a democracy or for democracy to endure. They'd like to wrap it all up and do it soon and be done with this "one person, one vote" stuff that can and should and will keep them from power. They know it, too.
If you resort to voter suppression, it's a clear and terrifying signal that you got NOTHING to offer the people for their benefit, but merely (!) want the power and control and will do anything you can and must to take it and try to keep it.
9
My husband is one of the two elected local Registrars of Voters (one Dem, one Republican) in our tiny (pop 2500) Connecticut town. Per Connecticut law, the polls are fully accessible to folks who have mobility or vision problems, and an immense amount of time and effort goes into making sure that (1) the voter roll is fully and carefully updated, (2) the polls are fully staffed by workers who know all the rules, (3) the separate, same-day registration site is similarly staffed, (4) that the Registrars make themselves available on a regular basis throughout the year to meet in person with voters, and (5) that all who wish to vote but have a glitch are given a provisional ballot to make sure they can proceed until the glitch is sorted out. At least in this state, things are managed carefully, sensibly, and professionally. It takes an incredible amount of work, but it's worth it!
14
I'm in Alabama at is not that way...
They put up barriers to voting to suppress the vote of those who want to vote.
9
@Fran Drake
Yes. Suppressing the vote helps the GOP and since they are too afraid to try to win on their ideas and policies alone, they cheat. Apparently they feel they could not win elections otherwise.
7
One set of criterion for voting set by the FEC and NOT by the states. There are far too many red states imposing far too many restrictions on an individuals responsibility to vote. As study after study have shown there is virtually no in-person voter fraud. WaPo sites a study by Loyola Law School that looked at 1BILLION ballots and found a whopping 241 suspect ballots. Read for yourself:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/03/heres-how-rare...
Next no election can be declared valid unless 66% of all registered voters participate. In fact, the 66% requirement would be much easier to meet with mail-in voting.
Neither of these two conditions stand in the way of mail-in voting.
4
When I vote (I'm sixty) I present the card sent to me saying what district in town I'm in. They always ask me what district I'm in and I hand them the card.
This ID thing is more evidence that our country is in the hands of something other than our own.
17
And not a single example of someone not being able to vote because of ID requirements.
I have no idea why the left is so against ID requirements.
11
People, whether they are on the left or independent or even *gasp* some people who have traditionally aligned themselves with the republican party see that gerrymandering of districts has been the consequence of tampering by the alt-right, you know, these people who have decided they know better about The Constitution so they can interpret it in ways that are convenient to their imaginations.
Anyone who follows how gerrymandered states and districts has occurred doesn't ask how it happened or why they have no idea "why?".
7
You don't know that no one has been unable to vote because of these requirements. How many elderly people have been so daunted by the requirement to get a photo ID that they have just given up?
4
While I'm opposed to the ID mandates that are popping up, if you can make it so anyone can get a free ID within a mile of their home at a place that is open seven days a week that will accept a wide, wide variety of information as proof of who they are then OK. But that's not what's happening. Wisconsin has done it as well as any state in terms of trying to make it as hard as possible. Here's a story. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/14/wisconsin-voter-...
A paragraph in that story worth noting is this:
"The Brennan Center estimated that in the 10 states with voter ID laws in 2012, more than 10 million eligible voters lived more than 10 miles from a state ID-issuing office that is open more than two days a week."
Wisconsin has one area - and it's low-income heavy - that has one registration location with hours that are so infrequent you'd think it's a joke.
Again, unlike lots of progressives, I could accept something sensible, even though I'm against it. None of this is sensible, and you know that. I honor your opinion, but it helps if you're a bit more honest about it.
22
Good luck, elderly voters. There are two strong forces working against you.
1. Undoubtedly, the Republicans who devised these voter id requirements did the math and concluded that the perceived benefits of excluding lower income voters outweigh the downside (losing some elderly votes). So you can forget about their support.
2. The Republicans' ongoing misinformation campaign has whipped part of the populace into an anti-voter-fraud frenzy. Millions of Americans now believe, for no valid reason, that voter id fraud is a significant problem. Common sense won't prevail among those who fret that bad hombres are picking up elderly people at senior centers and busing them around to cast votes at multiple polling places.
16
A permanent national ID card should be mandatory and sent to all citizens and legal aliens residents to demonstrate legal ID criteria for voting, driving etc. The ID would have chips enabling Federal and enabling State and local Departments to access basic birthday, social security, addresses and voter eligibility that is electronically secure and if stolen can be rendered void. This would address and solve issues that individual states have created to protect illegal aliens enabling them to obtain drivers licenses circumventing their criminal status and end around voting in elections and allowing them to travel on planes and trains. If illegal aliens are so easily allowed to do this, then terrorists can surpass these basic techniques to instead use these tools for their purposes. An annual national ID with embed chips without charge can secure the identity of all citizens and access to all of their rights that citizenry demands of society.
5
No, thanks. That's one step closer to the gestapo demanding our "papers" on the street corner. I don't want them asking my religion, either.
12
You have a far greater belief in the security of information kept on card chips then I do. "The new cards will help reduce in-person card fraud, but online transactions will disturbingly more than make up for this as ID-theft criminals take advantage of EMVs web weaknesses. However, if you're a business, look out for the coming “liability shift.”
Javelin Strategy said that card-not-present fraud losses totaled $10 billion in 2014 but will jump to $19 billion in 2018, according to its 2015 Data Breach Fraud Impact Report." https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/consumer/2015/07/24/smart... Welcome to the monkey house.
It's hard for me to credit how many people still have an unwavering belief in "technology", regardless of the evidence of GIGO and how little many corporations care maintaining a reasonable degree of cybersecurity. And it's not necessary to have a national ID to make it possible for people to VOTE. Which is a civil right in the US.
When the police pull you over, the first thing they do is ask for you papers. It’s perfectly normal outside of the Anglo-Saxon world to have a credit card-sized ID that lets you vote, get on a plane, open a bank account or what have you. I’ve lived in Germany for over thirty years and never once have the police stopped me on the street and asked to see my papers; nor, unlike in America, have I ever had to prove my age here to buy a drink. I would think that patriotic Americans would be proud to have a national ID card with a national or perhaps state flag in the upper right hand corner; I certainly would be. And no more worries about 3,000,000 illegal immigrants voting for the Democrats next time round — just think! America needs to get with it.
3
If you want to vote, you will find a way. Otherwise, you are playing into the hands of the enemy.
5
Every election, people die needlessly in traffic accidents caused by the chaos surrounding the event. Oregon solved this problem by eliminating polling sites and using only mail voting. Machines don't break, nobody gets confused about their polling place and people who are sick, traveling or stuck at work can vote without issue. Traffic jams and parking nightmares don't occur, preventing pedestrians from being run over by harried, late drivers. The problem has been solved, it's time for the other states to get on board.
19
I agree! It really works. And the counting machines in the elections office are NOT connected to the internet, so they can't be hacked.
12
I want to see the documentation and stats about the "people who die needlessly in traffic accidents caused by the chaos." If true, Oregon is one hell of a wild place that otherwise never gives itself away. Seriously? What are you drinking on this Saturday morning?? The mail ballots are, just simply, easier to administer. It has NOTHING to do with wild traffic jams and parking nightmares. Wherever do you get this stuff??
6
Traffic jams? At the participation rates we experience? And providing an example to your children? My children accompanied me to the voting booth at every opportunity and I make sure they vote now. They see others lining up to vote - rain or shine. This is part of the way a community works. Why take this away?
2
In the Ohio 8th, Republican Party workers helpfully visit nursing homes to make sure they all get absentee ballots, then return to help them vote. Even residents who are comatose, or can't remember their own names or recognize their spouses and children.
5
Isn't this voter fraud? There should be an investigation and those Republican Party workers should be criminally liable for voter fraud.
11
The main issues not addressed are: ELECTION fraud (not voter); little or no audits and recount of elections (rush to "certification" and results) count more than accuracy and transparency and too much control of the process by the two party system.
I worked this past November for the election as a poll worker in a rural NY town. The electronic voting machines have many issues. Vote by mail, or drop boxes, with counterfeit proof ballots and certified voters will and should replace isolated rural expensive polling stations.
I found very few poor people voting perhaps due to over work, inconvenience or intimidation by poll workers "socializing" sticking their noses into everyone's business voter by voter.
7
We are grateful here in California that electronic voting machines are NOT used. We get as close to "electronics" with the machines that read the pencil marks on paper ballots. The numbers are collected on machines BUT those paper ballots are still available for confirmation, double check and insurance. No election should be any more "modernized." Keep the paper. Wherever you are. If Diebold has bought out the process, rally to toss them out and bring back the paper back-up, at the least.
3
The reason they don't find massive voter fraud is because nobody is looking. The reason no one is prosecuted is because prosecutors aren't interested.
Some of the fraud is petty, voting in a district you don't live in. Some more significant, voting in two districts or voting under an assumed identity. There is significant voter fraud with mailed ballots for seniors.
2
How do you know? Do you know about "significant" numbers, or just a few anecdotal cases?
11
Cite? You make assertions, you provide no objective data to support your assertions. Here's what a 2 minute online search reveals though: In 2004, "Officials in Oregon have launched a criminal investigation after receiving numerous complaints that a Republican-affiliated group was destroying registration forms filed by Democratic voters statewide, Oregon Secretary of State Bill Bradbury told CBSNews.com." In Nevada and Oregon, Sproul allegedly canvassed voters for which candidate they intend to support. If voters were leaning Republican, the group is said to have assisted in their registration. If they leaned Democratic, the group allegedly ignored them or later destroyed the form.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/voter-fraud-charges-out-west/
That's right, it was a GOP-related entity that was committing voter registration fraud (allegedly) in two states. VOTERS weren't committing any fraud.
As of 2016, in OR, "Woon said voter fraud is "extremely rare" in Oregon. The State Elections Office got thousands of complaints of possible voter fraud since 2000, but there were only 13 cases of actual fraud found, none in Deschutes County.
Most voter fraud complaints turn out to be simple mistakes, rather than actual fraud.
"People forget to sign their envelopes, or they thought they could sign the envelope of their loved one," Woon said. http://www.ktvz.com/news/central-oregon/despite-easy-voter-access-voter-...
3
A solution in search of a problem. Vote by mail. Easy. Solved.
14
That certainly sounds like the logical solution. But you just know that some states who cherish their voter ID laws will find a way to make that next to impossible also.
I am getting to that age (on younger side) which this article talks about.
Fortunately, I am mobile and very conscious about voting.
Surely, with technology advances, can we not have a 2 person team - each representing the major political party or a team based on a coin toss if more than 2 parties - drive to some of these folks' homes with electronic voting??
I am thinking an Amazon receipt machine or a Hertz checkout device.
Two conditions: 1st a person has to certify that he or she physically cannot go to the polling station. 2nd, the polling machine has a paper printout in case of a dispute.
Surely, myself and other seniors I know would even pay for a service like this.
Civic duty is important but does not have to be cheap.
4
This is exactly what Oregon does. You just call your local elections office and explain that you need help. They send a two person, two party team to your house that will provide however much help you need--read you the ballot, indicate your choices on the paper ballot, verify your signature on the envelope, and return your ballot to the elections office. And voters are very appreciative.
Proud elections worker since 2008
13
Oregon's vote by mail is where its at. All this nonsense is just stupid. We have up to date voter rolls, we have a paper trail, we have signature matching. We get two weeks to fill out our ballot, we then mail it back or place it in a secure ballot box. Write your state legislators.
94
And California provides for permanent vote-by-mail status. It's great. No standing in line, going out in bad weather. the ballot comes to my house and I mail it back. The technology used to scan the ballots is reliable and cheap. Way to go.
28
Washington State is vote by mail, also, as in Oregon. This should be the national model.
5
The Republicans will always vote this kind of thing out. It makes it easy for the 'wrong people' to vote so they want to make voting as hard as possible - in the areas where the 'wrong people' vote.
5
Everything's harder for old people, and when things get changed, seldom is a thought ever given to how it will affect old people. (Paula, you should write a column soliciting pet peeves, ideas and suggestions from your readers on ordinary things that affect old folks negatively.) But back to your current subject. When my aunt went into a nursing home, she still wanted to vote, but it was a different county than her home. So, she needed to register in the new county. I made numerous calls on her behalf, to the county registrar, the driver's license office, the social security office, and back again to all of them, trying to clarify how this could be done. I was shocked how difficult it was, largely relating to the ID issue.
51
At 90, my mother was no longer able to drive. She did not have a driver's license. Pennsylvania passed a strict voter ID law (with a Republican Governor and Republican legislative branch of course). I drove my mother to the Pennsylvania DOT, so that she could get her photo ID. No way they were going to prevent her to vote!
She will be 96 in December and still votes. It should be a priority to make it EASIER for ALL eligible voters to vote. Earlier voting should be encouraged.
The Pennsylvania House Republican leader, Mike Turzai, on 23 June 2012: "Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania. Done." Sorry, Mr. Turzai, your tricks DID NOT WORK. You tried to thwart the will of the people.
Repub$ do not want everyone to vote. They benefit by low voter turnout. Oh sure, they will make allegations of "widespread voter fraud," but it is a lie and they know it.
Citizens, please vote and make sure your family, friends and neighbors are registered to vote and give them a ride to the polls if needed.
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"Many require that the IDs, typically drivers’ licenses, be currently valid."....That's insane. A person's driver's license may expire, but their identity most certainly does not expire. Further if a state requires a voter ID, then it should be required of that state to unilaterally provide the necessary documentation to anyone who registers.
47
"A person's driver's license may expire, but their identity most certainly does not expire."
Tell that to the TSA
8
Flying isn't a civil right, is it? Just as driving is not.
Voting is. Different standards apply.
Not to mention that the TSA is more political then devoted to passenger security.
3
In Wisconsin, people living in assisted living complexes are able to vote, and vote early, when the facility arranges for the League of Women Voters to come to them on a specific day and have the residents vote. Alternatively, residents can mail in absentee ballots with the assistance of residence staff. Also, residents where I used to work were driven to the DMV to get their photo IDs. It wasn't easy, and not everyone was able to go. But one thing the seniors are adamant about is staying informed, relevant, and part of their communities. Voting is a big part of that.
35
I believe you, and it sounds like a good system. But in a lot of states, even if the state voting statute allows such flexibility, everything is dependent on whether your local election authority authorizes it or not. So, one community might be able to enlist groups like the LWV, and the neighboring community cannot. Also, it sounds like you worked at an enlightened assisted living facility, with caring staff. Again, not every resident of every facility is so lucky. My experience was that the (ever-changing) professional staff at my relative's nursing home just gave me a blank stare when I asked about voting. I'm just saying, we think it is simple, but people would be surprised what really happens.
2
I completely agree. Our residents are not just fortunate, they are outspoken and so are their families! A "blank stare" at one of our three not-for-profit residences would result in a call to the CEO and a dressing down to the staff member who caused it. But we also invest in their votes by bringing in as many candidates as possible to debate, discuss, and explain their positions, and invite neighboring residents to join in (including other AL facilities). It's hard enough for them to hear their TVs; and boy, do they know what questions to ask! Still, in WI, there are still so many people with roadblocks to voting. In the rural areas, of which there are many, it can be impossible to get to a DMV to get a Voter ID and also get to a polling place. And if you are disabled, elderly, and live on your own, that's three strikes against you. My point, lost as I ramble on, is that if you can manage it, living in a group setting often makes it easier to cast your vote as you age.
The only recorded instance of large scale voter fraud was at an assisted living facility in Florida where Republican "assistants" helped residents to vote and then carried ballots to the registrar. There are now strict rules about how much assistance can be given to residents and who can deliver their ballots.
1
There is nothing good to say about Scott Walker. Voter suppression, extreme and secretive gerrymandering, disregard for Wisconsin's environment and our educational system, tax giveaways to his wealthy donors. Wisconsin, under Walker, is a disaster! As a long time resident of this once proud state, I am embarrassed. Wisconsin is becoming older, poorer and less educated.
44
And older women may need a paper trail of birth, marriage and divorce certificates/ papers to prove who they are. In 65 or even 80 years those records could be destroyed because the county courthouse flooded over a decade ago. People in their 90's might not have a birth certificate. DO the oldest citizens have to track down the family Bible to prove they were born?
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Actually some people must. And it isn"t due to Republicans. My father was born in 1901, at home, in a very small town in a rural part of the state. No doctor present. He was born on Thanksgiving Day and I gather the men in the family found this a great inconvenience! He was the last of 10 children who survived infancy - an 11th did not.
My father worked for the telephone company as a rate engineer. The telephone company was considered a defense support company. The US gov't then required that ALL employees must produce their birth certificate or naturalization papers in order to continue working. There was a great fear of says infiltrating defense industries at that time, and some did. Daddy had no birth certificate. None were issued in his little town. They would not accept the family bible, but would have accepted a baptismal certificate. They were Southern Methodists who didn't believe in infant baptism so there was none. He would lose his job without this.
At that time, a father could not testify to the birth of a child as they were not present to witness it. His mother was no longer living. But the law did allow a sibling who was over the age of 16 and present for the delivery, to testify to his birth. Fortunately, my father had one sister who qualified. So, she signed a sworn statement and my father was issued a retroactive birth certificate and kept his job.
Roosevelt was President at that time. He was a Democrat.
15
Back in those days it was, admittedly, Democrats who worked to suppress minority voters. Now it's Republicans. Doesn't make it right. Your father's experience just points out how providing adequate documentation could be difficult at one time, and still can be.
11
Regardless of party preference, all Americans should get behind the requirement for some sort of valid photo id.
If you are unable to do your part to maintain the integrity of the vote, you should not be able to vote.
Don't complain about Russian interference on the one hand and then complain about requirements to guard against illegal voters casting ballots.
11
@Honeybee: Your comment makes no sense to me. We have had elections for centuries without needing a photo ID. Do you think every one of those elections was rigged or crooked?
Also, why are you in FAVOR of something that's been PROVEN to be used mainly to SUPPRESS legitimate voting? (BTW, just wondering what you personally have done to "maintain the integrity of the vote"? Do you insist on showing your ID at the voting place? Do you refuse to vote if they won't look at it? Do you discourage people from voting if they don't have their "papers" on them? I'm truly curious!)
If you think photo ID's can't be faked, think again - and it has nothing to do with the Russians; just check out all the underage kids trying to get into bars in NYC on a weekend night.
And if you spot any Russians casting illegal ballots, just tell the poll workers.
73
I actually do not mind showing an ID.
But the actual numbers of voter fraud is basically counted on one hand.
The ones last year were Trump voters, including Steve Bannon, registered in 2 states - the guy hollering about voters registered in 2 states who needed to be punished.
62
Only if the state provides free voting ID cards to all people with 24 hour service and flexibility for those who are disabled.
5
One cannot board an airplane without some sort of ID. I know many of the very people screaming about how awful/inconvenient/discriminatory this rule is, also fly to visit family each year. To do so, means they must have a picture ID.
These same people also go to doctor's offices. Most now require a picture ID if insurance/Medicare/Medicaid are involved. So, they have them for this, too.
It's all just a bunch of hogwash.
16
You do not understand.
For some older people a whole list is required to GET the picture ID on a state ID card, It is not a matter of going to the post office. Many require many documents not readily available to senior citizens who do not drive.
35
I admit I don't know how a lot of people are unable to get proper IDs, but apparently many face this problem; they're not making this up. Also, keep in mind that many voter ID requirements can have very narrow and discriminatory standards: A college ID isn't accepted, but a gun or a hunting license might be.
26
Do you know the difference between a right and a privilege? Because voting is a right, the burden of proof falls to the state and not to the individual. It should be empirically obvious that you can't deprive someone of their rights by establishing some sort of legal burden. If states want voter ID, fine; but the state should have to unilaterally provide the necessary identification to every registered voter.
42
My 93 yo mother has paid taxes in Texas for all of her adult life. I pay her bills so having current bills at her address in Texas did not count as "proof", her health card was not proof, and anything forwarded was not proof of that when she quit driving and tried to get a state ID.
And that was AFTER the state declared unconstitutional to make women of her age dig up a marriage license if you took your husband's name, divorce records, etc etc. Who knows how many people in nursing homes no longer can vote because documents are in safety deposit boxes and no one can drive to get them.
54
My mother, who is 94, never had her birth registered. She was born at home and although attended by a physician, he never registered the birth,
The only record of her birth is a note in the family Bible. That was sufficient, after some difficulty, to get her Social Security and Medicare 30 years ago.
If the Republicans want to suppress her vote -- and they do -- they should think again as she is a reliably Republican voter.
Mom is, by the way, not an example of a poor or black person without records. Things were casual in 1924.
19
I never hear of these states supporting voter outreach to make sure people have the new ID. If they did one might buy their line that thus isn't about voter suppression it is about security. Given their indifference to people need one has to suspect this this the old poll tax/literacy test. Dixiecrats mischief repackage as protection against voter fraud, "Democrats and Minorities exercising their Franchise"
33
In states that forbid helpers, how would a careful helper - knowing better than to feed a stack of ballots into a mailbox, or to return to the same mailbox over and over with individual ballots - be caught?
5
There are so many forms of voter suppression. This is how Republicans take advantage when they are in power. It will take a lot of effort to make sure their obstructions do not stop us again in 2018 and 2020.
50
This is just ludicrous. Mail in actual, paper ballots. No need for lines, rides, worry. And an actual paper trail. Just do it.
55
That's what we do in Oregon, and it works just great. Actually, there's drop boxes in every Oregon town so you can save the price of the stamp. And once you're registered, as long as you keep voting and your address current, you'll get a ballot.
21
Republicans don't want it. Their job is to make it harder to vote for people who traditionally vote for Democrats.
5
Edward, since the older seem to skew Republican in their voting patterns, I think it's poetic justice that the GOP lawmakers are trending toward taking away their benefits, such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, medical expense deductions, etc. as well as their ability to vote. Those Republican voters shot themselves in the foot.
5
I did not get a chance to vote against Trump. Living in Wisconsin for 5 years, I had relied on my expired California drivers' license with no problems. Before the ill-fated presidential election, there were notices that I would need a photo ID. Since my photo ID had worked before, I had no reason to think it wouldn't work again. At the polls I was told that it needed to be a WISCONSIN photo ID and that it needed to be current. Countering that all that had expired was my right to drive legally in California, and that my identity had not expired was of no avail. Rules were rules, they said. Those rules kept this voter out of the polls.
67
@Alan: That is shameful on the part of Wisconsin.
That said, I guess the lesson for older Americans who relocate is: get a valid ID in your new state, even if you don't think you need it. I have retired relatives who moved out-of-state earlier this year, and one of the first things they did was to get their driver's licenses issued in the new location.
12
Sheer ignorance keeps people from voting not laws.
" all that had expired was my right to drive legally in California,"
No, your ability to drive had expired in all 50 states. All states require you to have a valid drivers license within a certain period after moving to the state. That law preceded the voter ID law by a half century.
The law requires a valid ID to vote. Why assume you can use an expired one to do so? Five years is more than enough time to get one of the valid forms. If you don't intend to drive anymore then get a state ID.
I do hope you haven't been driving in Wisconsin on that expired California license. Your comment that your license was only invalid in California leads me to believe otherwise
9
" one of the first things they did was to get their driver's licenses issued in the new location."
That's because all states require you to get a license in their state if you are staying over a certain period of time, usually 30-90 days.
9