Didn't love Fourth Estate
1
I'm afraid I didn't love this one. Though I do get that three tripled is nine, I still don't understand how you get to Richard III to begin with. Extra conditions are ANDS? Hmm.
But I was doing this a bit under the gun (it's nearly 12!), and maybe I'd have had less attitude if I'd done it in a more leisurely fashion.
Happy Thanksgiving!
2
Richard III is a play.
Each theme clue has two components: the mathematical one, and the one that tells what subject to think of: a play, a [TV] show, an estate, a [movie] feature. I only pieced this together after the fact.
Hmm for ANDS here also. I led with numero 3 from "ifs, ANDS or BUTS"
1
Finally finished in time for my gold star but even after reading Deb's blog and all of the comments I still don't get all of the clues/answers. Such a contrast to yesterday when I finished the puzzle and then about fell out of my chair when I realized the directional genius of the answers.
1
Whew! This was a tough one for me!! Really clever theme, though - and I enjoyed figuring it out. Full disclosure: I cheated JODECI, and I did not get the THREEOAKS reference - I guess I learned something today! Thanks for a good, challenging Thursday :)
3
Sigh. I think the real pleasure of solving such an extraordinary puzzle is by NOT cheating. I felt such a well-deserved sense of accomplishment (with appropriate humility) by solving this on my own. I have a three year old who keeps me busy, so my spare time is limited and I’m just glad I didn’t ruin it by cheating.
1
Oh, CrossNerd!! Don't ever change. You're my favourite :D
2
I used to think of my use of Wikipedia, IMDb, The Free Dictionary and Google Maps as cheating and feel guilty. Luckily Deb disabused me of that self-defeating attitude by relating what Will said: it's your puzzle to do with as you like (or words to that effect). So I don't cheat any more, I do research. In doing so I enhance my experience.
12
and ELKe
Just had a chance to read the comments. Don't want the emus to get a bad (W)RAP. My first comment was actually an attempt at clever wordplay : this ELKe Hamburger thought it fun to be labelled ''higher- priced(hamburger)meat....:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger
Think demonyms like Wiener/wiener; Frankfurter/frankfurter; Berliner/berliner//sufganiyot....:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger
For those in the know: H...H... :))
2
and Elke
Sorry about the dupe link. I guess the theme got to me.
Fun, challenging puzzle but I'm still in the dark on 41D - Follow the nus. Follow the sun? XIS...SIX? TIA.
Be well all!
Joe,
Please click on the link and see what follows nu(s).
http://www.rapidtables.com/math/symbols/greek_alphabet.htm
1
Thanks, Barry! The Greek alphabet is on my "I need to learn more about this subject" list. I suppose the lack of capitalization of "nus" isn't relevant?
Felt too much like a trivial pursuit contest to me ...
I was off by a fraction interpreting the theme: thought a full TV show being a full hour, a 'half-time show' would be THIRTYMINUTES. Guess the right answer for the wrong reason still gets points, and I soon saw the common denominator.
Tough times in two corners: in the NE, I could only see ONT or CAN where NHL belonged, and I know Joe Pesci but not JODECI. Also, if my VAC lived in a closet, I'd never remember to use it, so it's usually out in the LR
SE problems derived mostly from entering BRITISH, and I think I just blocked that MOON ON ME section because of being traumatized driving down I-95 near Jupiter FL.
Thought this a nifty alternative theme for a Thursday, but I can't believe there's been no complaints "I was told there wouldn't be any Maths!"
Hopalong ACIDY
4
Definitely struggled as did others in the NE. I love a good struggle that ends with the thought, "What a clever puzzle writer!" Sadly, this one didn't give me that feeling. VAC? Really? That's a closet item?! "I RESIGN"? I'm okay with JODECI because I love to learn about all kinds of subjects I've missed out on. I found the theme clues quick, easy, and clever, but I actually began to resent that NE group. Only compulsiveness and my refusal to mar my streak kept me going!
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
5
Nothing wrong with IRESIGN. It's one way a chess game can end. Early on I admit I figured it was CHECKMATE and was looking for a rebus.
1
Not a fan of this one. I really like puzzles that involve trivia more than esoteric thematic tricks. But, I'm happy for the variety. Some of the clues were serious stretches as others have mentioned.
3
Solved the clues, but the theme eluded me. Had to come here to figure it all out. Must be getting old.
1
I also did not get the theme even after finishing the puzzle. if I hadn't read the blog I'm not sure I ever would have gotten it.
but two answers still baffle me. I am guessing that ":" means "is to" in the sense of ratios/SAT questions ("A:B as B:C"). But how does "D" get to "POOR"?
1
This was an open book test, Dan. Elsewhere, it was noted that "D" is a POOR grade.
D is a poor grade. More a Saturday clue, I would say.
Happy Thanksgiving WPers!
This is still Thursday, so quite tricky. Lots of pop music clues, which helped me. Filled in a couple themers before THIRTYMINUTES laid bare the fraction angle. I too finished in the NE, where I needed a couple crosses to remember JODECI. Nice mental diversion before the feast.
Chris ISAAK comes across as a regular guy with a quick wit in concert and on TV appearances (he had his own cable show for a while). His 1987 debut album featured this terrific cover of "Heart Full Of Soul," which was a Top 10 it for the Yardbirds in 1965:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr8CRgMSACs
1
Hadn't heard that cover, Jimbo - I like it.
I was wondering if you might link something considerably longer today. Like 18 minutes or so. Maybe next year.
1
Too cute by a mile. Having to resort to JODECI and VAC and even TAKEI is evidence enough that the half-baked theme should have stayed in the Thanksgiving oven for a long, long time.
4
Although I solved the "three oaks" by way of the downs, I could not make sense of it in the context of the puzzle. I finall decided it was the 3 folks from the Ochs family who had worked at the Times, a member of the "fourth estate".
3
Quite tricky today, but finally got it. Oddly, it was THREE OAKS that gave it to me. I had some of the same mistakes as others, like BRITish, for example.
Time to help my son and daughter-in-law with Thanksgiving dinner etc.
2
Hand up for trouble in the NE. I don't play chess. I mean, I have, but "checkmate" didn't fit. Other unknowns as well, and I got the theme but that didn't always help... No turkey in the puzzle (in a literal sense) nor on my table. My PETA calendar calls this Turkey Murder Day so I bought a duck. (They will still cry fowl, I'm sure.) Happy Thanksgiving, all!
4
If the NYT crossword is going to include JODECI, then I guess I should know more about it. From Wikipedia:
Jodeci (JOH-duh-see) is an American R&B quartet with members DeVante Swing, Mr. Dalvin, K-Ci, and JoJo. The group was formed in 1989 in Charlotte, North Carolina.
1
Mr. Dalvin got the short end of the stick.
3
Late to the party today! I've made the chocolate pecan chess pie and Mr B is cooking the rest. The NE corner totally stumped me last night, and I had to have Mr B look at it this morning. He came up with DECK, which got us through. And JIVE, and VAC. Never heard of JODECI, even though they're from Charlotte. I did enjoy the mystery unraveling of the theme clues, though; RICHARD IX was my breakthrough there. And I had the most trouble with SIX AMIGOS.
RMP (et al) I didn't see any replies to my comment about getting together for coffee or lunch tomorrow. Is anyone else interested? What if we met somewhere like the Panera Bread on 9th Street at noon? Durhamites, permanent or visiting, let me know if you're interested!
2
Panera Bread, 9th St, noon o’clock. See you there! Looking forward to it.
2
Just don't call it twelve or the fact-checkers will obJect! Sorry to miss the party - see y'all next time.
1
Okay, I'll be there. Catpet, can you make it? Leapy? Alan? Anybody from Chapel Hill? C Jessamine?
2
Can somebody explain the ":" and "D" clues in the upper left? I'm at a loss...
The colon is used in ratios (IS TO) and a D is a POOR grade.
See you in class
(...and analogies)
:!
":" can indicate a ratio or relationship, as in Miller analogies tests - Bach : Composing :: Monet :
a. painting
b. composing
c. writing
d. orating
D is a poor grade indeed!
1
and of course, los seis friends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RolAQMtUjMY#t=15s
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okiMnLyCMbA
2
TEA is NOT an after dinner drink! In the American south you might drink iced tea WITH the meal. In Britain you might drink hot tea WITH the meal, but after dinner drinks are coffee, port, brandy or liqueurs. Once again the NYT crossword pretends to knowledge about Britain it manifestly does not posess.
1
Forgive me, Kathy, but I didn't see anything in the clue for TEA that suggested the entry would have anything to do with Britain.
(Coffee, tea or me?)
3
How much tea, other than iced tea, is drunk in the US, especially after dinner?
1
Nothing to do with Britain. Any decent fine dining restaurant in America offers tea or coffee after dinner.
5
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Time for PfP to return to the table, yes?
1
Too clever by a quarter.
15
Hear.
(not STEREO)
5
Family support got me home today, esp BRITCOM, around the kitchen island here in Durham NC. Our best cooks are hard at work, and I’m on dish duty later on when all is said and done and eaten. Happy Thanksgiving!
3
You're in Durham? How long? I went nawf ta 'ginia to help some get through the Redskins loss. If you are in town a few days. . . I understand someone is putting together a lunch for tomorrow?
1
Good to hear this! Will be here until Saturday. Would love to meet the Durham puzzlers.
1
See Liz B's suggestion above!
1
Thanks for explaining how THREE OAKS fits into the theme today. I did fill it in using the Down words and could see the logic of the other theme answers, but I had no idea about the GWTW connection. Otherwise, I was seriously hung up when I had ADDS as the answer for "extra conditions," though SED for Booker & Tester didn't make any sense to me. Once I realized ANDS was another option I remembered the senator from our neighboring state, and the puzzle was finally complete. Whew!
2
A happy and holy Thanksgiving to all of you and each of you! May your time of rest and family renewal be warm and loving.
3
Sorry for the double post, but could someone explain the clue "Start of a well-known roll call: Abbr." for ALA? I still don't get it.
1
States in alphabetical order at a political convention, for instance.
1
ALA is short for Alabama, first called in a Senate roll call.
2
Party conventions every four years.
And yes, a VAC is usually kept in a closet.
1
After an epic over 1 hour struggle (most of which was in the northeast--never heard of Jodeci), I finished it to keep my streak alive!
I liked the theme. Unsure why VAC was clued as a closet item--because they're kept in the closet? If so, pretty weak IMO. If it's something else, please enlighten me. Also thought ELK clue was a bit of a stretch.
13
Crosses and down answers helped me to get the theme with THIRTYMINUTES, but it was still a slow solve for me. Struggled in the North East JODECI was a complete unknown to me, but once I had the J in place the rest came to me. A clever challenging Thursday. Happy Thanksgiving to all those celebrating!
1
Had hype for JIVE resulting in y RESIGN. A chess declaration for the tenacious.
Old man story alert: Around the time of LAWOMAN The Doors played at The Hollywood Bowl. Tickets were $5 and my friends who were the promoters had to keep filling pillow cases with bills and driving said cases to their home in nearby Glendale (Pre-credit card days). Elaine had no idea what to do with the bills so she put them in the tub. After the show. Jim and Ray came over to Elaine's house (it was a different time in LA). Jim went into the bathroom and yelled: Look at this! The result was a photo of him in a tub filled with money. Other relevant puzzle rumination, I was in LA completing my doctorate... just for the TAM.
Thanks Howard
13
Great story! LA Woman is on my iPod.
This was too obscure for me. While I got that the theme involved numbers, I couldn't tease out the formula. It was difficult in an unsatisfying way but, today being Thanksgiving, I am thankful that this is seldom my reaction.
Wishing everyone a wonderful day.
11
Lemons for lemonade, Meg. You have a good attitude.
3
Are you all lunching Friday, Leapy? Archaeoprof is in town!
1
Aww rats! Yes, I'll be lunching, RMP, but unfortunately too far away to join you. Perhaps some of the other Durhamites will be free and can look you up?
Make sure Archaeoprof has a good time, so that he'll come back for seconds.
Great puzzle over all. Not disturbed in the least by Fourth Estate, once I understood the answers were math tricks.
Personally enjoyed the star Mars misdirection, and had never heard of Jodeci, but with 34,393,976 views on this 1995 "Freek'N You" video, I wonder how I missed them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYwL-FzFDKQ
Now off to turkey wrangling. Happy Thanksgiving all!
1
Very impressive theme. I can't think of any others where so much of the constraint is in the clues - not just the answers. The solve was quite a challenge for me. I finally got JACKSONONE filled in and still didn't see how that worked. Oddly enough, I got the fraction intent with THREEOAKS and STILL didn't understand the JACKSON answer. Didn't get how that worked until after I was done. The others, of course, were much more straightforward.
I had a couple of failed checks elsewhere in the puzzle, but like Amitai, I was done in by the NE corner. JODECI plus what I thought were very odd clues for JIVE, VAC and ELK and I was never going to get that. I guess I should have worked out DECK and ORAL, but I was more focused on the others.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
8
Pretty much agree with everything you said, RiA.
Except I only had half-understandings of the theme until I got to THE JACKSON ONE. First, I was confused at the end, and had THE JACKSON NINE. Who? It was only when I got the 1/5 = ONE that I full understood the whole theme.
2
What threw me off most was the expectation of a Thanksgiving theme!
1
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. I'm going to solve slowly, in small bites, over the course of the day.
3
Great clue for MOON.
DATA point was nowhere to be found in my wheelhouse. But IMAGO, JODECI, and TWELVE OAKS were deeply ensconced in my memory's catchall drawer, and as I worked elsewhere in the puzzle, my brain foraged, rifled, and rummaged through that cerebral mess until I heard "Bingo!" faintly, three times, allowing me to finish the puzzle rather than declare "I RESIGN". Thus, I got my satisfaction smile in -- and thank you for that, Howard -- as well as my mental work quota. Now I can shift my focus to the culinary joys to come today. May your Thanksgiving be a delight!
5
The moon clue threw me back to my books, since I had learned the new moon as completely invisible because it was lost in the glare of the sun. Now I learned the moon is always visible even at true new moon phase. If it aligns with the sun exactly, it is visible in shadow (solar eclipse). If it is, as is usual, slightly off from alignment, an extremely thin crescent results, which was documented in 2013 with this photograph:
http://www.astrophoto.fr/new_moon_2013july8.html
7
That's an amazing shot, DC. Thankyous to both Thierry Legault and you.
1
Very cool shot, David. Thanks for sharing!
2
I definitely had to work for this one, but it was worth the effort. 50A seemed a bit of a stretch in 64D, and I never heard of JODECI.
4
Pretty much as described my Deb, I starting with MERYL, MOVIE and the two Caesarian quotes and saw that 20A had to be THIRTY MINUTES, giving me a hint to the theme. A prolonged, intense effort, much guesswork, and look-ups for several of the many unknown names (e.g. ISAAK, TAKEI, Doors discography) eventually allowed me to fill all of the grid except the NW corner.
I looked up Uno and – to my undoing – entered card before DECK. As a result, a google search of R&B groups did not turn up JODECI. ELK hamburger would not have entered my mind in any case. The upshot: I RESIGNed myself to invoking a couple “reveals”, and was left with an ACIDY(??) taste in my mouth.
All in all, not my cup of TEA.
4
Correction, My nemesis was the NE -- not NW -- corner.
1
Ditto. I got it, but ACIDY?
2
Not feeling satisfaction.
3
How about now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrIPxlFzDi0
3
“Start of a well known roll call, Abbrv.”
“Closet item, for short.”
“Booker or Tester, Abbrv.”
These seem very “Crosssord-ese” considering the rest of the puzzle has good content.
1
Yeah, NE was my last to fill in. Don't know the group and VAC is, uh, not great.
VAC was fine with me as that was the only word my mother used for that particular appliance. IMO, ALA and SEN are common abbreviations, not crosswordese.
Loved this puzzle. Tough at times, and I was very late in grokking the theme, but very enjoyable.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
2
We have a family disagreement about fourth estate, whether it's clever, or inconsistent.
Perhaps you could agree that it is both?
(If a just a tad obscure)
2
and ELKe
Since only simple math was involved- no COSEC etc.- I SMILED at this puzzle.
It was SO KIND that the clue at 13D was ''higher- priced burger meat'' (answer : ELK ), not just plain old Hamburger....
Am curious about Martin's menu- how exotic is it ?
With good wishes that everybody DINES AT the feast they wish for-whether it is turkey, turducken or vegan variety. Be thankful.
2
I originally thought the 'higher-priced burger meat' was some of that TARTARE we had recently. Was not pleased to see it morph into ELK, but am relieved that you don't seem to be taking it personally.
The WP EMU should consider this a word of warning.
3
SOY wouldn't cross, BISON wouldn't fit, so I figured "What the ELK" and went with it. Not my cup of TEA either, Elke, and I agree with Leapy that the EMU should be on notice.
(Omnivore, but in moderation)
2
Good morning, BarryA.
Some time ago, I browsed an Emu website which extolled the many virtues of Emu oil, highly recommended even more than its meat. I offer that as further corroboration that the oily bird get the warn.
10
My first DNF in a long while. Got stuck in the middle and dropped out. Very clever, though, when I saw the answers, just not my thing. Maybe I'm just tired from Turkey Day prepping. And a happy one to all.
4
Neither “Et tu Brutus” nor “Veni, vidi, vici” is a quotation of Julius Caesar. The first is the invention of William Shakespeare, and the second was written by an event organizer in the employ of the Roman Senate. Both Suetonius and Plutarch write that Caesar said nothing to his assassins, but Suetonius adds that other — unnamed — sources say he rebuked Brutus with the Greek “Kai su teknon?” (“You too, my child?”). As to the other “quote,” Suetonius writes: “In the Pontic triumph [46 BC], a float preceded him [J.C.] bearing the inscription ‘I came, I saw, I conquered,’ not signifying as in other [triumphs] the deeds of war so much as the speed with which they had been accomplished.” (Latin “fercula” means something borne between two poles by four or more men like a litter or sedan chair; since this fercula was a tablet with a propagandistic inscription on it, I think “float” is the right English word for it.)
3
Trouble is Suetonius is about as reliable as Fox News
12
The first is a quote of the character JC.
The second is clearly put in JC's voice.
2
What on earth is the subtext of THE JACKS ON ONE?
Very difficult and too obscure for my taste. I like challenges but this one was willfully obtuse.
6
One fifrh of the Jackson 5
3
Sorry for the typo
From one misparser to another: it’s THE JACKSON ONE. One-fifth of The Jackson Five.
I had fun with this one. I struggled to get the theme, and even when I did still couldn't get some of the entries. Forgot what number Richard was in Shakespeare so I figured it had to be IX because X fit down. I had BRITISH instead of BRITCOM for a long time which hampered the south west. I saw the trick with Mars right away but forgot about Bruno. I figured Twelve Oaks must have been a gold course or something, it sounds like one for sure.
A lot of struggles but I still enjoyed it. It was, in my opinion, a perfect difficult for Thursday. The theme revealed itself, I powered through, and was able to get it.
5
Wait, so the we were supposed to think of the NEIGHBOR of Tara and the O’Haras as am archetypal ESTATE name? Finally got it, but it didn’t help that I had ISSAK spelled with a C, and toyed with OCTA. Yikes.
1
Guessed wrong on three proper nouns. Not my favorite.
1
After yesterday's easy but enjoyable Thursday-like Wednesday, I was afraid that today's offering might be a turkey. If you have leftovers, have them tomorrow on a HERO or in a WRAP. With TEA.
N.B. Deadline did finish blowing up the balloons for the parade and doing her Black Friday shopping, so she'll probably be back today.
5
Thanks, Barry.
1
{gasp}
The stuff I actually was doing was hard enough! But so far, I seem to be able to make the comments work today, and I'll try to stick around.
3