This defense of "people we agree with and like" is baloney. Grabbing a buttock and thrusting a tongue into the mouth of an unwilling person is sexual assault, and perpetrators must go. Why deny it for political reasons?
There is too little thought given to the victims...what if it were your daughter or wife?
8
I don't know what the answer is to your quandary, but there are fundamental differences between the accusations against Moore and those against Franken: 1. Moore's contact was with a minor and he was in a position of power over that person. Franken is accused of hitting on colleague, who was his equal, rather than an employee. 2. We still don't have evidence of a pattern of serial abuse with Franken, whereas with several of these others we do - Moore, Cosby, CK, Weinstein, Clinton.
6
What will women gain from this #metoo moment in the end? It's beginning to seem like all perspective has been lost. A grope, near grope, or unprovable grope is a call for resignation? All accusers are believed simply because they are women? There is something going terribly wrong here and smart intuitive women might want to start asking how they can keep this #metoo movement from losing credibility.
14
When the Third World War is only an impulsive tweet away, it’s clear that all bets are off. The needs of the desperately wounded Democratic Party must come first. There are literally billions of lives on the line. I hope that Franken can find a way to stay and make amends, and maybe even earn redemption. Let him sit for an ethics committee investigation. If the punishment of a massive Republican partisan investigation isn’t sufficient attrition, I don’t know what is. Ask Hillary Clinton.
4
As one who suggested Ms. Goldberg should resign after her ill-reasoned column demanding that Franken quit the Senate, I'm delighted that she changed her mind. The latest "revelation" (that he may have cupped someone's derriere in a photo shoot) changes nothing.
2
I would like for the females who have posted to go back and read through some of these posts. I am not condoning anyone's action but those who try to justify who is right versus who is wrong and/or this one was minor versus the other one really need help. IMHO this is exactly why the NOW lost all credibility when they totally, 100% supported Bill Clinton. You can't have it both ways and to accept Al Franken is not on the level of Roy Moore is like saying the SS wasn't as bad as ISIS.
15
To me, it's as simple as this... when Donald J. Trump admits his sexual indiscretions, then, and only then, should Senator Al Franken even consider stepping down.
51
This rabbit hole is already filled to capacity.
12
Senator Franken can stay or leave. If he leaves, the Democrats are morally consistent and would have the authority to demand accountability for those others guilty of similar despicable acts. If he stays the world will once again recognized the typical political expediency characters of he Democrats; they will loose all moral authority and he will added to their other sexual miscreants: Weiner and Weinstein (and now Conyers). Others guilty of similar or worse behavior will take solace in the forgiving (and expedient) nature of their political brethren.
8
What Al did is not sexual harassment. He committed no crimes.
He does not remember the rehearsal kiss the way Leeann retells it. Read his apology.
It is obvious he not groping Leeann Tweeden in the photo. He was mugging for the camera with his fingers above the fatigue coat she was wearing. Also, there were people there, and someone took the photo.
Al is taking this issue to the Ethics Committee. I hope he calls witnesses.
Remember why Leeann was there in the first place. Just like Bob Hope had Playboy Bunny Jo Collins, Raquel Welch and Miss World on his Vietnam USO tour in 1967. I'm sure some of the GI's were more interested in seeing the beautiful women they knew from magazines and movies, than the comedy and the music. To me, Al was miming what his young male audiences were probably fantasizing.
Yes, it was juvenile, stupid. It was not sexual harassment. It was not a sexual assault. It was not the behavior of a sexual predator or sex addict.
The same holds for the young woman in Minnesota getting a picture taken with Al at the State Fair by the woman's husband a feet away. He did not goose her. He did not squeeze her buttocks. He rested his hand on her behind. That is not a crime, at least in Minnesota.
Not illegal sex with a minor. Not barging in on teenagers changing into swimsuits. Not grabbing genitalia, or indecent exposure. Not seeking sex in exchange for employment. No force, cornering a woman in an office, elevator or room. No crime.
116
He did not grope. He mimed, vulgarly.
If it is true that there is a picture of Tweeden grabbing a guitar-player's butt on the very same tour, I'd say it was every adolescent for him/herself.
47
At this rate we might end up only with gays, transgenders, priests...and policies that help men by making polygamy legal in the United States.
Are Americans, including many women, so lost that they cannot tell the difference between bad behaviors , including bad language, that have to be confronted, versus assault, rape and chasing after minors?
While it is true that no woman or girl should ever feel unsafe in any environment, even walking alone in the dark wearing whatever she wants, the US on these matter is not evolving sexually, as much as introducing a new level of fear, restrictions, judgments and male-female divide.
It appears the only men who love all what is going on are the fundamentalists who say, "See, what did I tell you? Put your women in veils and keep them at home, barefoot and pregnant to keep them from prowling hands. This happens even in America where women are supposed to have freedom and rights. So don't be like that stupid America!"
Maybe I was lucky, or in a profession with more evolved men: most of whom were Liberals, Progressive or way left of the Left. If I had to chose between California guys and White men of Texas or any Middle Eastern man...I'll take most California guys (not all but most). Guys have to grow up with sensuality and sweetness, with core respect for women. Men all over the world have to be brought up better. Blame parents, the larger culture, and the petty value system that only values men's work and money making abilities.
24
Democrats release their tax returns; Trump does not. Dems get all over Conyers and Frankin; Trump supports Moore. Dems are foolish to think they can win any one over by being “more responsibile.” We are in a tribal war in this country. The other side simply does not care about sex abuse. Why should Dems?
35
Oh, how wrong I think Ms. Goldberg is!
It is this giving-good-guys-a-pass reasoning that has brought us here. Forgive the football players who are young and such good guys, protect this one because he otherwise did a good job, etc.
We have an absolutely poisonous culture that is stacked against women. We also have a racist culture, and a violent culture. Is this what you want your children to grow up in? Do you want your sons, with a leer on their faces, grabbing the breasts of young women or bragging about grabbing pussy? (I am curious whether that word will be removed- is only a president allowed to say it?) Do you want your daughters to be treated like that, do you want to know that they might be expected to put out to get a job?
It is absolutely not acceptable.
8
The other side does not care about your moral dilemma. Democrats are, as usual, sitting ducks. This is from a feminist.
39
In the States we are brought up to understand that men have a bit of trouble controlling their tests of testosterone. We are very hush-hush about it. They may fly off the handle and become wild or violent. Really, it is anybody's guess. That, Ms. Goldberg, is why so many men feel entitled to grope, touch, and demand access to female bodies. Don't you think it is odd that men's have attributed those same uncontrollable emotions to women: PMS & Menopause?
The fact is that it was the society and culture in as little as 5 years ago. How do I know this? Because I had men advise me to dump my husband, who is French, and get a real man, an American. I had a few men show me their guns and one show me his itty-bitty-penis.
Culture and society is changing. Unless it is rape, if the man knows his nature was as the accusation states, then he needs to apologize publicly and privately as well as make efforts to reform.
Once I moved to France I learned something new. 'It is never ok to hit anyone'. The French are having the ME TOO. But we have to stop now or very soon. The same rules must apply to everyone if we are going to live in an openly equal world which we are trying to create.
I want to equal to everyone regarding my right personal and legal rights. I don't need to torture the 62 yo man who thought it was ok to lay in bed with me when I was taking a nap in 1969. I just want my son and grandson and granddaughter to be equal in human rights. Power is power but decency limits it.
5
The top comments on this thread are disgusting. Sexual harassment is terrible, unless it's done by someone you like, then it's no big deal?
Guess what people? Two women have accused Franken so far, this means there are more. He didn't one day wake up at the age of 50 and start doing this. It wasn't a momentary aberration. He's a creep, but he plays a good guy on TV. I know it's hard to believe, but YOU DON'T KNOW HIM. You only know the public image. You don't know Louis CK, or Woody Allen, or Bill Cosby or any other celebrity or politician, however much affinity you may feel for them.
17
Charlie Rose, with his despicable behavior, just gave El Trumpo the room to endorse the pedophile Roy Moore, saying there is no proof. Meanwhile Trump is a serial sexual abuser. All of these men should be exposed, but now political reactionaries are TRUMPING equality and sexual harassment with policies that will hurt everyone but the very richest.
4
Seems odd that Leeann Tweeden should do this pop-up eleven years after the fact. As a senator, Franken couldn't possibly have any way of interfering with her career. She could have done the pop-up when he first ran for the senate, when he ran for his second term, or any time in between.
By doing it now, in the current climate, she must have known that it could ruin his career. The fact that Franken, as a senator, has been a consistent advocate of women's rights would seem to compensate for a bit of stupid and crude behavior long in the past. And as beautiful and sexy as Tweeden is ( http://idposter.com/Leeann_Tweeden/), I doubt that the Franken tongue kiss was her only encounter with aggressive men.
Should Franken resign, would it be possible to determine that his replacement did not have similar indiscretions buried somewhere in his or her past? Few are as fothcoming and proud of their bad behavior as Trump. An outstanding senator, Franken, in the hand is worth two choir boys in the bush.
21
No Franken resignation until Trump resigns for far worse sexual predatory behavior. Flawed liberals do not need to lie down and be doormats just to avoid the charge of hypocrisy. Remember that conservatives have no problem being hypocritical, and rarely apologize. If they are calling for us to pay a price, they need to do so as well.
29
Great column! Keep coming up with excuses and rationalizations, sex predators can’t function without them
8
How convenient that Tweedens accusation emerges
before her book release.
32
As long as the admitted Groper-in-Chief occupies the White House this conversation is a waste of women's time and breath better spent practicing yelling Fire! - don't bother with Help! or Rape! - as loud as we can and taking self defense classes.
4
Al Franken needs to stay in the Senate; he is NOT a serial predator. Sorry! This is hysteria!
52
Maybe Al Franken should resign and then run for Senate again in the next election. The voters could decide, like in Alabama.
4
Is it so hard to remain consistent and condemn despicable behavior regardless of party affiliation?
Don't you fear sounding just like the Alabama Republicans who are still making excuses for Roy Moore and still supporting "their" pedophile?
Nothing is so bipartisan as sexual misconduct in Washington, DC. For every Weiner there's a Hastert, for every Vitter there's a Ted Kennedy.
If Mitch McConnell and all the Republicans who have denounced Roy Moore can do it, how can Democrats not?
3
Men we don't expect? Do "we" think democrats don't harass women? Please.
6
I am a 64 yr old woman and I feel like I've had a good, fairly long, and full life. I have known wonderful people of both sexes and some less than wonderful. I have a pretty good nose for who is truthful in life.
Altho I don't like to speak ill of anyone of my sex, I don't believe either of the two women who are making allegations against Al Franken. They don't appear honest to me, and one of them definitely has a lot to gain financially. Her career is getting a boost and she has a lucrative book deal. This is the smell test: financial gain.
43
Weinstein, Franken, Spacey and CK are creeps on the attractiveness scale. Depending on your affiliation Trump and Clinton are creeps on the political scale. You don’t see anyone going after Warren Beaty, Gene Simmons or any of the top show business studs possibly because they aren’t creeps. One of Frankens accusers was outraged that he kept calling her up finally told him to stop calling her which he did. She seemed more outraged a creep would try to date her.
Some of these incidents are procecutable but just wondering if a persons real crime here is whether or not they were a creep. A creep to some just has to show up o get torn down. It really doesn’t matter what they do. Does it.
1
What I don't understand is the assumption that Franken is guilty. Like a lot of women, I've experienced lots of sexual harassment. It's never in front of other people. It's always alone. I find the second accusation of him grabbing a woman in front of her husband inherently implausible.
The first allegations come from someone who misrepresented a photograph. This has been pointed out repeatedly by readers.
Insist that all allegations be investigated. But insisting on automatically believing all allegations really is folly.
45
There is a difference between a predator and a pig. Both are reprehensible, but one deserves banishment while the other should be sanctioned and given another chance.
7
Al Franken was goofing around with someone on a USO tour and should not have to resign because of it. What he did was in no way sexual assault. He should only resign if Trump resigns first, and maybe not even then. Franken apologized for his misconduct and we should accept his apology and move on.
19
There is a big difference between men trying to seduce teenagers in a private place with no onlookers--and Al Franken's tasteless "joke" of a picture that obviously was done with onlookers. His object was not to rape the woman who was sleeping, while it seems that this is exactly what Roy Moore & other men had in mind.
18
Michelle's call for Franken to resign had serious blowback against her and has undermined the cause of women who have been truly sexually harassed . As with any dealings we have with others , your word is your bond ; Ms Menz should produce the photograph of her with senator Franken . This has truly turned into a witch hunt with the media sensationalizing it . Just as the last mass shooting , the nation moves on and we become inured . The damage has been done .
6
I wish I could say I was sorry… but one of the reasons I became an Independent was that I could see the obvious hypocrisy in the Democrat party and I hated it.
On one side, we have the Social Justice Warrior motif, where the Democrat states their firm support for women’s rights, equality in the work place, etc.
Do not compare this pattern of liberal Democrat behavior with Donald Trump’s standard braggadocios entertainer bits for Access Hollywood or Howard Stern or during his WWF phase. In his past life, his schtic was celebrity entertainer, and like Jerry Lewis playing the inept clown, The Donald played the outspoken, say-anything quasi-comical billionaire, and it worked to boost his career (and income).
But that wasn’t who Trump in private was. In private he was the product of an ultra-strict father, and he raised his kids the same way. A brawler, he was also clean as clean can be at home, and we who knew him know why he picked Pence given the how Trump's highly-guarded private left was so similar. Still skeptical? Look at his kids.
Social Justice sycophant by day, crook, rapist, racist, and harasser by night. Right now, this is the epitaph that will lay on the modern U. S. Democrat party and there's no "equalizing" it by now by deflecting with phony GOP charges. And Democrat: you've got a long way to go there: The score is about 27 Dems to 1-2 GOP. now. If you deduct Roy Moore who was a Democrat when the alleged activity occurred, it's more like 27-0.
4
This whole movement is bordering on sexual McCarthyism. It's a sin to lump Al Franken with Robert Moore, Donald Trump and even Rose. I think the allegations against Franken are overkill and politically motivated to strike back. Franken was a major star for decades, a true celebrity compared to Trump, and even if these ridiculous allegations were true, he'd still be an angel compared to the numerous sexual and drug exploits of his fellow celebrities. Franken has even apologized for everything and anything that may have offended these ladies. Trump is holding fast with his excuse that no matter what you do, no matter how evil, as long as you deny it, you're automatically exonerated. So we're going to crucify Franken because he apologized? This is what happens when a country loses its great leadership.
29
It's not really all that hard.
Ms. Tweeden has accepted his apology, said that he should not resign and that 'people make mistakes'.
And yes, Franken made one.
But what he did is hardly assault, and maybe not even harassment. Crude, adolescent, boorish, sexist? Sure.
Censure, sure.
Resignation? No.
28
I disagree with any suggestion that Al Franken should resign because of a "joke" depiction of sexual harassment. Before you leap to judgment I hope you will view the photo of Al Franken's depiction of groping a sleeping woman in a flak jacket. Even the sleeping looks like what I call possuming. Although I was born and raised in Alabama, I remain firmly against sexual harassment and understood what it was at age 11 when, yo yo in hand, walking home from the corner store a tradesman yelled worse than suggestive remarks at me from his truck. What Al Franken said was inappropriate, in 2006, and it would certainly be inappropriate now. However, it was not anything like what Trump said several times on various occasions on TV, not what Charlie Rose was fired for allegedly having done several times to several women, not what Roy Moore has done and is known for having done, etc., etc. The difference is obvious. There are too many differences to count so I won't belabor the point. Franken has given his heartfelt apology and it was accepted. Let us not pillory him for "murder" when he only stepped on toes and then apologized.
16
Thinking like this lead the major voices of the women's moment to give Bill Clinton a pass and worse even attack his accusers. If they had instead done the right thing we might have had all these issues come out 30 years ago. And now the author proves that she learned nothing from that era.
4
Is it possible to use your position to esponse a reasonable resonse? I know it is out of fashion to show restraint and consideration or to presume that humans are complex, but could you just try for a minute to consider that one could be held accountable for a behavior without condemning the entire character? You are uneasy Michelle, because this reductionistic witchhunt isn’t actually addressing the angry they feel about Trump and reducing a human to a few actions without considering character or context is both lazy and dangerous for society, not to mention a horrible injustice for someone who has devoted himself to public service.
12
I mean, re Lindsay Menz, is it possible that this was clumsiness rather than molestation? If the man has thousands of pictures taken, is it possible that on some occasion his arm is not going to be in the right place and there will be a misreading of what he is doing? Wasn't his purpose in posing for the picture to make those people like him, and isn't it obvious that groping the person could undermine that? Why would he do such a thing intentionally?
15
Preditor or addict? That is an important question. Not to say that addicts are not to be held responsible for their actions when they harm. What is important is that their addition and its results is not a definition of the entire person. Winston Churchill was a thorough going alcoholic, John F. Kennedy was a prime womanizer as was Bill Clinton. Sexual misconduct is the latest way to erase whatever else the person has done. We must train our offspring to say no and mean it. If one makes a choice to put up with sexual incursion because "it would cost my career" on e reifies the behavior and sets up the next targets. We can say no, and meant. I was a lobbyist in the early 70s, a clean up boy (union title) in a butcher shop, and a cook in a logging camp. On the occasion that unwelcome attentions occurred I set boundaries and, for the most part it worked pretty immediately. Just sayin'
I always found the "allies" label rather cringe-worthy, regardless of the cause. The people who claimed to be "allies" of this marginalized group or another always smelled of virtue-signaling and self-congratulation, and the people within groups who dubbed so-and-so to be an ally always seemed like self-appointed spokespersons and gatekeepers.
This article seems to point to another problem: it pegs matters of moral principle to the social currency of individuals. Suddenly, people must be perfect saints or they must be wrong about everything. Can Franken not be wrong on his behavior but right on other things. Should gender discrimination in wages depend on whether Al Franken is a good guy or not? The very notion is absurd. Gender discrimination in wages should be prohibited because equal pay for equal work is a basic principle of fairness. What does it matter what Al Franken thinks about it, whether he is saint or sinner?
1
I believe there's an issue here at the bottom of it all (no pun) that makes this issue so unsettling to many of us. It has to do with the question, "Can you trust people?" We must face the truth, as it's staring us in the face. The correct answer is, "No."
This all brings to mind the "Hot Stove Rule" taught by Pete Zidnak at San Jose State University. He taught business ethics with logic and compassion.
It's simple. You touch a hot stove, you get burned. Doesn't matter if you're the CEO, mail sorter or one of the most important sales person in the company. Whoever touches the stove - gets burned. And if they're your colleague/friend/senator/representative, then they weren't much of one when they decided to 'touch' the stove by sexually assaulting another person.
Instead, they betrayed you thinking they can and will get away with their crimes.
If you allow a person who has 'touched the stove' without getting burned, then you've created two separate outcomes. First, others will see that there are exceptions to being burned because of politics or connections and will plan accordingly; and you've demonstrated that you can't be trusted with the collective rules that there was a line that can't be crossed (no justice, no peace).
There are no 'allies' when it comes to sexual harassment. They stopped being an ally when they committed their crimes. I don't feel saddened if Al and all of his other co-horts (yes, they should be lumped together) are severely punished for their crimes.
5
All of these men should be tried in some manner. Especially with Al Franken. Tweeden has a photo of one incident. We don't know if the kissing actually took place. That needs to be investigated. I for one do not believe it and would want proof of it. To me, based on Senator Franken's display of character, I think it is unlikely. Whatever -- these experiences need to be looked into more thoroughly than the press does. The constant yammering of the press about Senator Franken appears that he is being tried by the media.
12
I am a democrat from the state of Alabama. In my opinion, Roy Moore and Franken are not suitable for office. Franken must resign or be removed. Moore should be stripped of his senatorial seat after he wins the election. There is no excuse for what these men have done to women.
4
One way to understand our current landscape is not to adore the politicians we help elect, no matter how great we think they are, but to view the world as complicated. People who do very bad things that damage others deeply, can also do good things for others. And people we think we know, we really don't. I remember first hearing Howard Stern and finding his humor lewd and not my thing. But I had friends who liked him so I gave a listen. I never became a fan but as a journalist I would admire his super-hero ability to stand up to the government for freedom of speech, even though Stern clearly used it to make what some would see as inappropriate sexual comments targeting all manner of the population. Has Stern been named in the current deluge of those abusing their station and outed as a predator? I'm not expecting he will be and I assume he's a stand-up individual until I hear differently. What's happening now is not new, except on scale and compressed in time. It was over a decade ago when my mother suddenly unloaded art prints by Picasso, as well as a biography she read detailing behavior by the artist that she found deplorable. My mother gave all the Picasso stuff to me and I passed it along as well. Our strange reality is this: I still really like seeing a Picasso, even if I don't want to hang one up. And so does my mother.
1
"We lose...either the moral high ground or men whom we need, admire and maybe even love."
Oh wait, we're supposed to be drawing a distinction between the lecherous men we like (politically) who attempt to violate our wives and daughters versus the lecherous men we don't like (politically) who do the same?
You're not on any sort of high ground. You're in moral quicksand.
5
What is really going on here? Forget the posturing by politicians, celebrities, and wealthy business people all trying to preserve their positions. There are truths which no one say.
The women voicing complaints and the feminists using the opportunity they present talk as though there is no difference between a violent criminal attack and a touching of the thigh or rear end, or even a man merely exposing himself. I have actually heard some of them in the media refer to such behaviors as "horrific" or similar gross exaggeration. The real truth is this. Groping, thigh grabbing or rear grabbing are behaviors which are regarded by women as detestable when done by any man they don't like or are not attracted to. But the same behavior would be acceptable to them, sometimes even desired by them, when done by some man they are attracted to. That reveals the fact that the behavior is not really harmful. It is simply offensive to the woman but only when she doesn't want the guy. That does not mean that it is OK to do by any man. But it does mean that the offense is not a major one, it is not some horrific evil.
There is something else very suspicious also going on here. All these accusations are of very, very long ago behavior. Accusers know that there is no way that any accused man can defend himself regardless whether the accusation, is truthful, exaggerated, distorted distant memory, or even occasionally completely false accusation.
5
We only respect them because we don't know yet that we shouldn't.
3
Truth be told, live up to your principles. If someone violates those principles, time to disengage from them. No excuses. Franken must go. And any other vile male figure out there who exercised power over women against their will. There are no two ways about this.
And in any case, we can always elect women to replace these men as they seem to have far higher moral values.
5
My only hope is comedians like Sen. Franken know how to phrase and depict distortions that play with visual illusions and the compounding of a single lie as they are passed from source to source.
If there are no one checking sources, as would any reputable news organization does in carrying out the 'due diligence' of fact checking, would they not be complicate in spreading LIES...? You know the saying: if you ask me no questions I will tell you no L-I-E-S...!
I only recall Sen. Franken say he apologized, but not for what. Could it be for posing for photos that may have been staged just to see how other media outlets picked up on a true 'fake news story' and rode like the wind to delivery it...?
I don't think it's a politically losing argument to make clear and defensible distinctions between the behaviors of the different men. It's messy to do this in a public forum because you'll be called a hypocrite by someone who is likely dishonest and simple minded. All of this is, indeed, heading into Sex Panic territory if we're insisting on the same consequences for very different behaviors.
4
at what point did we decide that bad human behavior was triggered by political party affiliation? was that the same point in time that we decided that one political party was pro-woman and pro-racial equality? does this not strike everybody has immensely silly and also immensely prejudiced?
4
It speaks to how pervasive the problem is.
2
There will be many more victims coming forward, along with new accusations toward republicans and democrats alike. Bill Clinton set the standard; Hillary was the enabler who ridiculed, smeared and re- victimized the women who fell prey to her husband's basal instincts. 25 years later, democrats are attempting a spin on the hypocrisy and the innate contradictions of Hillary and her feminist roots. Many commentators above cast a long shadow of doubt on the accuser; but would that same shadow be cast if it were a republican accused. Mr. Roy stands accused and the evidence stands as credible, both republicans and democrats beseeching him to drop out. But in Senator Franken's case, democrats state, "he apologized and should continue"; now a second accuser has come forward but this time it appears the democrats will follow the Hillary playbook of denial and character assassination of the victim.
3
It's appalling that Ms. Goldberg, too many in the media, and a number of commenters here keep conflating Moore, Louis, Rose et al with Al Franken. Mr. Franken did NOT stalk anyone; did NOT proposition anyone; did NOT abuse his position of "authority" to obtain sexual favors; did NOT parade in front of anyone either nude or in his underwear, and he did NOT commit "sexual harassment."
When someone claims that what Mr. Franken did was "harassment," they do a grave disservice to him AND, even more importantly, to women who have actually been harassed.
15
If Franken stays around and Democrats do not kick him out of the Senate, think how much easier that makes it for Republicans to defend the likes of Roy Moore. If Democrats shield Franken, that lends credence to conservative claims that Democratic attacks on Roy Moore and Donald Trump for their misdeeds are purely partisan. In a way, the case of Al Franken is an opportunity for Democrats to prove those arguments wrong.
If a zero tolerance standard were set in the Senate for sexual misconduct, that wouldn't just kick out a bunch of Democrats -- it would also result in the Republicans losing seats. So I'm not persuaded that we should lower standards to save some Democratic seats.
Mitch McConnell said that Roy Moore should step aside. I think Democratic senators should follow his example and encourage Senator Franken to resign.
3
Michelle Goldberg has already done quite enough damage by accelerating the national hysteria with her original comments. Those who have been accused have lives beyond this current issue. Nevertheless, in the present climate all heads must roll. In the Age of Trump is everyone going crazy?
14
Based on the allegations and evidence, Senator Franken should not resign, period. He is not perfect but has demonstrated the sincerity and integrity to admit to and learn from his errors. Jewish tradition espouses the principle of tshuvah - the goal is not retribution but rather, when the situation for transgression arises again, turning away from bad conduct. Obviously, as the author recognizes, there are degrees of bad behavior not all of which can be remedied by tshuvah alone, but Senator Franken is not of the caliber of true sexual predators.
9
"It’s a strange political fiction that anyone can really separate partisanship from principle."
It may be a strange fiction but it is the basis of our politics. Both parties are in cahoots or there would be duels every week. There is no need to even consider an appreciable difference exists when the body count regardless the administration continues to rise.
Mr Franken's actions (thus far) have been those of a sophomore and while people are justifiably offended his level of transgression doesn't appear to have reached the level of assault. While boorish, unwelcome and unworthy, his actions do not appear to be those of a pervert.
5
Politics and morality make strange bedfellows.
I like to keep up on the real facts and those that are coming to the front are Al Franken really did nothing wrong. Sometimes we rush to judgement. This is one such case. Senator Franken should not resign. He should have his "day in court" (ethics hearing) and he will be vindicated. I am sure of that. This is a hit job - a smear job by the far right. Plain and simple.
10
if Franken has to go then the sins of Bill Clinton Donald Trump and Roy Moore need to be fully exposed and examined just like all the others in Hollywood and elsewhere. Otherwise none of it makes any sense.
1
Sexual harassment is still sexual harassment, whether committed by a Republican or a Democrat, a member of Congress or the president. This will never be rooted out if some get a pass and others don't, based on their political contributions or the degree of harassment. We can't have double standards.
1
The list is endless but the final stunning straw has got to be Charlie Rose. Charlie Rose? What? Are you kidding? He's been at the pinnacle for 30 years. Arguably one of the most accomplished journalists ever. I mean if you can't trust Charlie Rose, Mr. wish he were your Dad, who can ya trust? Who's next, Walter Cronkite from the grave? It's almost as if to be normal is dysfunctional.
2
Over the radio, Aaron Neville is singing everybody plays the fool. It seems like apt commentator.
Say "We believe men" or "We believe women" and some jerk will be able to find someone we'd be ashamed to believe. Stop worrying about being a chump by avoiding the bait. It's ok to say "This could be bad." Sometimes we can move easily. Sometimes we can move fast. Sometimes we wait.
I suggest that it is ok that is a range of responses. There is also a range of consequences. Let's talk about what those are. What are the tools in front of us? We have more than a few blunt instruments.
Turning MeToo into nothing but a shame game is a missed opportunity. We can assert ourselves and accommodate others. We can really do both at the same time.
3
Claiming that supporting Franken is the same as Republicans supporting Moore is ridiculous on two fronts: first, the accusations are of a completely different nature and severity. Secondly, if Franken resigns we still get a Democratic Senator - this isn’t supporting
an accused sexual predator to prevent the other party from gaining a seat.
Liberals can’t be the only ones to abide and fall by a moral code.
There is a difference between inappropriate behavior and sexual crimes.
2
I want to agree with Ms Goldberg's point. I hear the fears of losing one of those good ones for the sake of the moral high ground - but that's who we liberals are. I will not cede the moral high ground for political expediency. As much as I adore Sen. Franken and do not consider his actions as categorically similar to the others of late, I respect non-hypocrisy more. It's time for us to put our money where our mouths are and take it on the chin. This is a man problem - not a political one. Out with all the boys who find such antics acceptable or funny.
3
Ms. Goldberg's applying of "lame excuse" to Franken's comment--while virtuously avoiding examination of this lame accusation--exemplifies another use of blind-eye practice. The fairground Texan story is ludricrous in a number of ways, but it is not "appropriate" at this time even to call it into question. I can't think of anything Franken could have said that would be accepted by either the Breitbart/Fox deluded or by the sack cloth and ashes Dems.
It is not courageous to passively accept whatever anyone makes up about another individual just to show how fair and empathetic you are. The woods are burning, Ms. Goldberg. You should hope that you yourself are not accused, for in this environment so welcomed by the alt right, denials are always lies and apologies never enough.
5
Franken should stay right where he is till the investigation plays out.
8
I was at a company where 2 guys grabbed a young office employee. The office female really liked one of the guys and complained about the one she didn't like. The guy she didn't like was sacked on the spot. This is going to be the new normal.
2
In other words, forget standards over politics. how predictable
Franken can resign when Trump does and not a moment before.
2
Michelle, you are jumping to conclusions. When you can explain Roger Stone's role in Franken's situation, I will listen to you
I don't I have ever heard you call for Trump to step down? Why, the double standard?
7
The cultural Left is cannibalizing itself while the GOP literally steals the country away with this tax bill.... The media. Again, is squarely to blame. They gave us Trump and they gave us this... Thanks NY Times for playing your part in ruining this country.
6
I get drawing a line, but where is it? Never made an unwanted advance on a woman? Two unwanted advances, three? Never made a woman feel sexually uncomfortable? Always got signed approval before kissing? What is it, and what is your pool of candidates who are truly 100% pure? Which line did Franken cross exactly? How much do you pay by imposing purity standards when the opposition doesn't apply any standards?
2
I appreciate this piece very much. These are complicated issues with no easy answers as your series of editorials demonstrates. Perhaps that is why we liberals are always beaten by conservatives - we see the world as shades of grey and try to come to defensible rational decisions and they are simply unencumbered by those difficulties. Life is simpler seeing in black and white when you don't care about hypocrisy.
Al Franken isn't the only Democrat available in Minnesota to sit on the Senate and pass laws. We cannot excuse wrongdoing because we like the person who did the wrongdoing or because we like what they otherwise stand for. It's a mistake to blend sexual harassment, rape/sexual assault, and pedophila and molestation into the same catagories of wrongdoing and thereby excuse one that is less evil than the other, which is what you are talking about here with Franken. Wrongdoing is still wrong, regardless of degree. We should all be calling it out right now, in defense of all the victims and for the good of our world. Should we mete out equal punishments to the various wrongdoings? Probably not, but at the very least we have to admit they are all wrongdoing. And then we can parse out who thinks government officials accused of wrongdoing should step down or be fired, fined or go to jail. Maybe those guilty enough and disgusted with themselves will take their own lives, and maybe some will continue to think they did no wrong and will continue their transgressions. The latter is why we must call it out, in addition to helping the world of victims heal. Speaking out aout the wrongdoing helps us all and makes the world better, and it's a kind of hush-hush moment to consider letting Franken stay in the Senate. He did wrong. He has to go.
2
When our allies are accused of harrassment, like Rep. John Conyers, we pretend it didn't happen until we are forced to publish our own news report several days later.
1
Michelle continues to paint the issue as political. It is not. There are no allies when it comes to sexual harassment. Once you put a different lens on it the answer is simple. If Al Franken or the others in the spotlight, worked at any major corporation they would have received sexual harassment training over the last 20 years. Everyone in the top 200 corporations understands this behavior is not acceptable. If this behavior happened in top companies they would be fired after an investigation and a finding of guilt. End of Story. Unfortunately our politicians work in the most powerful corporation in the world, the US government. Are we to believe they do not understand the meaning of sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment? Really? Any politician from either party needs to go! And any voter who supports them after the investigation finds them guilty needs to look in a mirror and ask themselves how they would feel if it was their daughter. I bet that conversation is not about red or blue! For once ethics must win over politics or our leaders are useless.
3
I was thinking further about Ms. Goldberg's oped and the current cultural moment.
Not only are we risking unilateral disarmament and losing men who vote with women's best interests in mind (even if their private behavior is boorish or inappropriate).
But, the fact is I don't believe these allegations will make a difference for most women in most workplaces. Even after Weinstein, Louis C.K., Rose, et al., I still would not file a claim against a boss. I know I still would pay a price at work if I did. I still would heed the counsel of a friend who is an employment lawyer has told me repeatedly that if I ever feel I need to file a sexual harassment claim that I am better off finding a new job.
The self-righteous left, of which I am part, is devouring itself. We are lumping sexual inappropriateness with workplace harassment, boorish behavior with predatory behavior. We are repeating accusations as fact. We will lose allies. We will allow the right to score political victories. And, if at least the pay off was that we rooted out sexual harassment, the sacrifice would be worth it. But these allegations will change will nothing.
In a few months, my boss will be back at my desk making lewd jokes, asking me to go on vacation with him, tugging at my skirt, making me feel uncomfortable in a million and one ways.
3
If the abuse, danger, and fear in prisons are at least as vicious as the abuses being exposed, should not our desire to amend prison environments be at least as fervent as the outrage against the men who have abused their positions?
7
A clear distinction needs to be made between serial predators and men who once or twice ignore their own value systems and commit acts that may be judged as "harassment". Our culture has given free rein to male abuse of power. I'm honestly astonished that every single man I know hasn't crossed that line more than once.
11
An old story, when our enemies transgress, we condemn and prosecute; when our allies misbehave, we rationalize and forgive. Nothing changes.
14
While I agree that Democrats shouldn't base their opinions of sexual improprieties and their consequences on the political affiliations of the accused, I also think it's important that we look at context. An otherwise good man who commits a foul deed, admits it and apologizes is a far cry from an unrepentant and defiant serial predator.
Progressives need to look at reality. Republicans will never hold their own to the standards many Democrats now demand of themselves. Simply put, after Democrats have finally banished all the impure from their ranks, they will look around to find that Republicans run everything -- which will in turn hurt women. There is middle ground between looking the other way and reflexively casting out anyone who crosses any line, no matter that person's history or character.
18
Ms. Goldberg continues to prove she cannot think her way out of a paper bag. It remains to be seen how serious Senator Franken's "crimes" are, but so far they fall far short of a capital offense. As we are learning more and more by the day, there are no perfect people--just ones who are willing to own up to their failings and try to improve and those who are not. To have declared herself judge, jury, and executioner within a few hours of a breaking story is unworthy of someone who holds such an important platform.
46
I commend the re-think of your earlier article. This is a political brawl between progressive democrats and self-interested autocrats. The progressives will continue losing if they confine themselves to Marquess of Queensberry rules while the other side adopts Ultimate Fight Club tactics.
15
I agree and also change my direction. Assuming nothing up shows up.
3
Even before reading the article , I want to recommend that people read the author bell hooks on the subject of masculinity . I’m not apologizing for Franken’s poor behavior, but this issue is a bit more complex than its portrayal so far on CNN and other mass media outlets. I look forward to this article with its thoughtful headline. Hooks discusses just how difficult it is for men to be sensitive human beings in our society.
3
The longer I live the longer I believe no one can claim complete moral superiority. We all make mistakes both intentional and unintended. When we insist on perfection we will win only pyrrhic victories.
At this moment in time, actual victories are more important than pyrrhic ones. Give Franken a DOH-slap and then move on to more egregious problems.
12
Maybe consider Ms. Tweeden's views on whether Franken should resign. She is quoted as saying she doesn't want him to resign. Is that sufficient?
14
Thank you, Michelle. For giving voice to the arguments that I have been having with myself. As a society we need to wander into the morally gray areas, now and again. Life is not lived in black and white only. The ongoing collective conversation needs to account for the thousand shades of gray where most us live, move, and have our being. If we march on ahead, strident, and absolute, then I fear precipitating a "sex panic." indeed. From there, I can already see the patriarchy reasserting itself. One step forward. Two steps back. I would rather two steps forward, into the gray.
2
Women, girls and female babies have suffered suppression, indignities, and prejudice in every situation as a commonplace part of life and death. For the male sex to conform to cultural change for sexual equality is a good thing. Our culture must change and we all must remember inequality and disrespect as evidence for why we must change.
3
It is a tremendous error for the democratic party to force Franken out. It shows that while the GOP gives Trump a free pass for much worse, not to mention presumed future Senator Roy Moore, that we will allow ourselves to be bullied. There's no moral high ground in allowing the "lumping together" which is exactly what the GOP is doing. The Dems are walking right in to it by calling on Franken to resign as if his actions are on a par with Moore. They're simply not. Bad yes, worth his resignation, in my opinion no.
Make the point of the difference in action, in taking responsibility and apologizing, and then go after Trump, and presumably Moore for their alleged assaults. The Dems better get their act together or they'll be dealing with Trump and both houses for many many more years.
21
I am old enough to remember the daycare child abuse cases of the 1980's that ensnared many innocent people, harming and jailing the adults and scarring the children. I think it is good to look back on what happened in those years as it relates to what is happening now. Both sexual harassment by men towards women is a real issue and so is abuse of children by caretakers. But, when we are effecting the lives of people, it is best to not judge quickly but take the time to fully investigate and listen to all those effected. Time has a way of clearing the air and offering us perspective.
12
I find it interesting that an article about Franken winds up, to a large extent, discussing the foibles of others. Can’t Franken’s adventurers or misadventures stand on their own. It seems the intent is really to diminish Franken’s behavior by comparing it to others. I am not defending the “others”, merely pointing out the fallacy of making such comparisons.
5
This is why restorative justice needs to be more of a thing.
http://aorta.coop/portfolio_page/destabilizing-rape-culture-through-tran...
Instead of focusing on punishing transgressors, which offers no long term solutions, focus on transforming culture and preventing future harm.
Franken has chosen to undergo an accountability process, which Weinstein, Moore, Trump, Spacey, Ratner and Cosby emphatically did not. Which changes what happens, and how we respond.
6
I feel the same way. I am heartbroken that men I respect are letting me down.
7
I never dreamed that the next witch hunt - the modern version of the McCarthy era - would spring from the left. But here we have it. A hue and cry that makes mo attempt to sort through the accusations, the nature of the attacks, or the time that has passed since the attacks took place. It is enough that one person - maybe two - holler "victimhood" and someone's lifelong work is ended. I cannot express how troubling, how disappointing it is to see that my fellow liberals are as incapable of discernment, and are just as capable of her mentality as I have always known the right to be. Like Robespierre and the French revolutionaries devouring their own. Count me out.
20
Franken should empower his victims by (1) publicly asking their forgiveness and (2) privately letting them decide his fate. If they say he should go, he should go.
2
You either have principles or you don't.
One sure-fire way to distinguish between a talking point and a principle is to ask whether you will apply it to yourself or your perceived "friends" in exactly the way you will apply it to those you perceive as your adversaries.
There are fewer and fewer principles left, and fewer and fewer principled people left.
9
Men are being outed everyday for what was previously considered "expected" behavior from them. It's right that they are being called out. If Democrats want to self-flagellate, that's noble. However, Republicans are not going to do the same. Their voters place their conservative agenda above morality. So we need to consider that if we start digging we will find many, many men in power are guilty of inappropriate conduct. I'm frankly surprised that Joe Biden has not been called out as he is so demonstrably physical. All it would take is some woman, to say, "here's my chance". The stakes are too high to not take a Republican eye for every Democrat's. But the left is not as orchestrated. So I fear that we will lose the war on women's rights to a new code of conduct and the war on taking our country back to civility and sensible discourse in this rush to find more culprits. Because the Republicans will close ranks on their harassers while the Dems do the opposite. They are already doing that with Roy Moore, led by predator in chief, Trump. So far Franken's behavior doesn't compare to that of Charlie Rose, Roy Moore, etc. I'm sure he's made salacious comments and been touchy feely. However perhaps if he looked more like say Brad Pitt or Richard Gere, his actions would not have generated the same disclosure.
5
I am ordinarily quite skeptical of much of what is on the internet, and try to be discerning about what I see and read. But this is very curious: http://www.theimproper.com/151393/al-franken-accuser-leeann-tweedens-cla...
It is difficult not to wonder about the timing of Ms. Tweeden's claim, her alliance with Sean Hannity and Fox News, her self-promoting over the years (on Howard Stern's program and elsewhere), and hard to believe that she has been that devastated and has harbored so much anger for the past 10+ years about the alleged incidents claimed against Senator Franken.
At what point does a tasteless prank, if it happened, become real sexual harassment? We are in dangerous territory if we equate the accusations against Senator Franken with what has been reported about Harvey Weinstein and others. These latest accusations have obviously garnered Ms. Tweeden a lot of attention, and are obviously a very effective distraction from Russian interference in our election and our democratic process, denial of climate change, undermining of our standing in the world, evisceration of the Department of State, the EPA. Need I go on?
Let’s have that Senate Ethics Committee investigation. Let’s have Ms. Tweeden testify under oath. And while we’re at it, let’s have the Commander-in-Chief answer a few questions under oath as well.
24
Apparently, the fact that Al Franken was democratically elected by the people of Minnesota to represent them in the US Senate means nothing to Ms. Goldberg. He should resign "and be replaced by a woman," as she wrote in her last column.
Fundamentalist true believers are dangerous in the realm of politics. That holds true for Roy Moore and it holds true for Michelle Goldberg. These people think they are in touch with higher truths that supercede the wishes of mere mortals (mere voters) like you or I.
9
Simple solution:
Franken resigns.
Franken runs for re-election.
The people decide.
2
It seemed to me that you really jumped the gun with your earlier column that Franken should resign. His actions seem crude and demeaning, but the situation should be investigated to determine the context before jumping to conclusions.
13
It might be easier to live in a world without nuance. Even better, had I lived my own life without the need for it, and without my adoption of the rationalizations it requires as companions. Yet, there is a discernible difference between pedophilia and sexual boorishness, just as there are differences between rape, quid pro quo sexual relations, and unwelcome sexual advances which do not result in sexual assaults. There are different "levels of proof": unambiguous confessions, widespread public belief, proof beyond a reasonable doubt after a trial. There are differing levels of remorse: calculated and insincere v. heartfelt and life changing - just to mention a few.
There are reliable witnesses and unreliable witnesses. No particular category of human experience makes any "type" of witness unfailingly truthful.
Not every person who has exhibited a significant and offensive character deficit is thereby rendered unfit to hold a public office, or to be unwelcome among other human beings.
I read Ms. Goldberg's column as reflective of all these things, and I applaud her for it.
5
I think one can parse these cases without being contradictory. If we agree to zero tolerance is it right to make that retroactive? And should one or two bad choices overlook the good that someone has done. I think not. The question I ask myself is this one in a series of incidents or is it one? Is it predatory, meaning does someone prey on the vulnerable, such as teenage girls. Neither of Franken’s accusers meet this standard. Was he wrong? Yes. Were the women within their right to speak up. Yes. Should he resign, no.
5
I don't feel confused at all, because I already had the experience of betrayal trauma from being intellectually abused in grad school by men in science I had looked up to. Scientists being the opposite of scientific, purely out of resentment towards women.
We just need to have courage and keep cleaning our house and keep taking out the trash, wherever we may find it.
2
Your essay is thoughtful and most appreciated. For a long time, I have been a watcher of Charlie Rose's PBS/Bloomberg interviews. I found Charlie Rose to be a calming interviewer of people in the news - politicians, actors, writers, dancers, tech innovators. When I first starting watching - we were in a cable media "war" where CNN had the "Washington Gang" and Fox News had their panels of more or less Republican and conservative - the pro- Bush Neo-Conservatives - the " neo-cons" who pledged for the "righteousness" of the war in Iraq after "9 - 11". Instead of the CNN, Fox "shouting" shows, Charlie Rose's show was a place to go to get some more formidable information about that war and so many other points of political and national governance concerns - without the shouting. To this day, I appreciate that. And I will miss Charlie Rose's approach to TV interviewing - commercial free on PBS. I am at a loss, a real loss to understand Charlie Rose's behavior towards his staff - his female staff. Don't understand why he would want to humiliate the very people who were professionally and intellectually invested in what his broadcasts were doing for PBS, Bloomberg and CBS. I feel betrayed by this man. And my heartfelt support goes to those men and women who supported him and turned-out so many good shows despite this creep.
3
I stand by Al Franken because what he does in the Senate is what matters. Everyone needs to calm down.
11
This is over thinking the problem. Men should not sexually harass women and should be held accountable when they do. We should not be apologists for men (or women) who engage in sexual harassment based on their politics. That’s what happened with President Clinton. Perhaps if he had been held accountable for what he did, we would be in a better place now.
5
I am at this point: elated that that sexual aggression, especially in the workplace, is finally being taken seriously, and concerned that we don't know how to speak about or even what to think about such behavior. Women have spent so many years biting our tongues and moving forward, regardless of how we are treated by men in positions of power that now, when we can speak of it and think about how we should react we are either at the "Off with his head" stage for every transgression or at the "Please can we stop talking about it" stage.
So where do we go from here? Who can give us both a new vocabulary for men's aggressive behavior, and who do we look to for role models? Yes, indeed we need women to step forward, and many are doing so as we saw on November 7th. But shouldn't we have some models for men's behavior also? Please don't tell me that Tom Hanks is the only decent man in Hollywood, or that there are no good men in public life!
1
Hit job by Roger Stone. Franken not only should not resign, he MUST NOT resign.
13
You Know? -- You can only win one war at a time. Let's deal with this issue now. To "pretend" that you are groping is to "pretend" that you want to dominate and use. We have to stop the actions that diminish and contain and constrain the intelligence and leadership of women. Sorry, Mr. Franken, but say you're sorry and go.
2
Ms. Goldberg you have got to be kidding. The fact that Sentator Franken hid his misconduct behind a thin veneer of rhetoric does not in any way justify such misconduct. Actions do in fact speak louder than words. Further, it is simply outrageous to say without a shred of support that the wave of sexual harassment sweeping traditionally liberal industries and organizations is because such industries and organizations are more “responsive”. Could it be simply that the true values of such industries and organizations are different from what they would have us believe? Could it be that the true values in other industries and organizations are in fact not what you believe they are? And why mention President Trump but fail to mention former President Clinton? Surely the latter’s misconduct is the ultimate example of what we all now are condemning.
4
According to the argument, sexual predation is "somewhat" tolerated if the aggressor is for women's rights and other progressive causes. That is the primary reason President Clinton was given a pass on his basal transgressions. According to the article, there is a dichotomy and varying degrees of what sexual harassment is and what is tolerated. It is a false equivalence to state that if Senator Franken or congressman Conyers are forced to resign there is no guarantee the replacements will be for gender equality?! The article politicizes the issue of sexual harassment and lessens the criminal element to it. In essence, it tells women, if the harsher is someone who believes in women's rights, allow him to grope and feel; otherwise, next time, it may be a groper who may not have the best intentions for women.
2
To me, this appears really difficult. I want to avoid making the "one of our boys" hypocritical argument, but I also want to avoid negating the good that a man had done previously, or is likely to do in future, just for his past sins.
What is the most just way forward?
1
I can tell you exactly how I feel about what has happened to Franken. The same way I felt about Gary Hart. The politics and changing mores of the moment have removed another good candidate from the possibility of becoming President. Now we can see how Donald Trump became President. Because his followers don't care. I think we should stop this absurd process of eliminating qualified candidates for no good reason. Unfortunately, I am afraid we don't know how to stop.
9
If you want the moral high ground, you have to be prepared to take the political losses. Feminists lost a good chunk of the electorate by making the political calculation with Bill Clinton.
5
I do not know the facts here, and that I don't know is a problem. I have read comments to articles about Franken's first accuser that call her credibility into question. Why haven't I heard about more about her in the media? I am not going to repeat what I do not know to be true, but if this woman has issues that might explain her charges as exaggerated and politically motivated, why haven't Democrats been publicizing them. Incompetent Democrats just aren't playing the same game that Republicans play, and it is costing the country dearly.
6
Does anyone else think that Franken used "badly" for plausible deniability?
Why the rush to judgement? It seems like there is a lot more to this story than we currently know. Context really does matter and not all allegations are necessarily 100% true.
If Franken gets scalped and later information is revealed that shows things in a very different light, it will be hard to ever take the #MeToo mob serious again.
17
I have a problem with this. Even if the Franken episode turns out to be over played, that should have no effect on all the other women that came out and reported other offenders.
1
Why is no one remembering John F. Kennedy, perhaps the most active sexual transgressor ever to occupy the Oval Office? Some of his escapades were quite public, too. As with Marilyn Monroe. But ah, the myth of Camelot!
14
"It sometimes feels as if liberal institutions are devouring themselves over sex while conservatives, unburdened by the pretense of caring about gender equality, blithely continue their misrule."
Just keep telling yourself that, over and over.
13
It's ridiculous to have a double standard: one for people you like, one for people you don't. Franken made two women very uncomfortable while he was in a work situation. Yes, there is a spectrum of behavior from harassment to assault to rape. Isn't that obvious? This writer's vacillating and hand-wringing is really not helping women at all.
7
Michelle Goldberg made thousands of women and men very uncomfortable with her column last week. Do you believe she should be forced to resign for the sake of being consistent, or is it better that she listen to her readers and reflect their wisdom in later writings?
2
A sea change, if you will in morals. Touching is no longer acceptable. Nor is sexual innuendo. No more touching of others - even handshakes. No more kisses from your aunt or patting nephew Willie on the head. I am not joking. No more coed dorms. No more coed campuses. Workforces segregated wherever possible.
6
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it, Michelle.
I heard your journalistic anguish on the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. What I heard was the sound of journalistic ambition.
To create an equivalence between Roy Moore's documented pedophilia, Bill Clinton's exhaustively documented transgressions, to which you added in your recent column, and Franken's comedian-as-idiot behavior is to ignore the concept of degree.
There are crimes. There are misdemeanors. Moore's crimes were just that. Franken's is a misdemeanor.
Enough of the hand-wringing, for goodness sake. Your self-righteousness is as thumping as it is hollow. This witch hunt by the White Right, in response to the abysmally unqualified Roy Moore, of all people, is just that, a witch hunt. And you will look back on this as a low point in your own judgement of what it is to be a journalist.
29
How confusing is it to get all the facts before making a knee jerk pronouncement ?
How hard is it for you or anyone at the Times to apologize for saying the photo showed Franken grabbing Tweeden ?
17
Others may have seen a conservative website post other pictures of Al Franken engaged in staged "groping" of apparent friends or fellow comedians, where they appeared to be participating in the "gag", with knowledge.
This contrast provides a level of clarity that renders AF unfit to continue in office - the kind of behavior that is done to a virtual stranger, without consent, is egregious and completely unacceptable. There is no humor to fondling or pretending to fondle a stranger - unconscious, unaware and not in on the joke.
We do not need to include Lindsay Menz' accusation to arrive at this conclusion. AF's behavior toward Leeann Tweeden, and his lame partial denial there are sufficient. His non-denial regarding Ms. Menz' allegation just intensifies the conclusion.
As people who respect and appreciate AF's work, we have no choice but to reach this conclusion. Our criticism of the other party often relates to its hypocrisy, dishonesty and lack of integrity. He should hold himself to a higher standard.
It should be soul-crushing for him to participate in a meaningless ethics committee process and come out the other side with a slap on the wrist, as part of a system that is designed to protect Senators of both parties, almost regardless of their conduct. You can hear the cynicism in Senators' bi-partisan calls for an "ethics investigation," knowing that they may be up next.
A qualified Democrat can be appointed in his place. Time to face the music.
2
As a confused male would someone give a definition of sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape. I understand the latter well, it's the subtleties of the former. For example, the photo of Senator Franken shows him with his hands slight above the breast of a sleeping woman wearing body armor. I would suggest it is certainly not admirable behavior but hardly criminal. It proves he is lacking manners but he is not a sexual predator.
5
You made the wrong call, Michelle.
LeeAnne Tweeden - herself - said that she gave consent.
Despite being emotionally conflicted.
If “no” means “no,” then “yes” must mean “yes.”
Franken should not resign.
Your calls for him to resign are emotionally impulsive and irresponsible.
18
It pains me not in the least to say... Save Al Franken!
His was attempting to be 2006-funny, as a comedian entertaining 20 year olds, pretending to grope someone who was in on the joke (she just closed her eyes for the picture; yes, that's what an eyewitness said). Dumb as it is, Al is not in the same category with creeps like DJT and Roy Moore. And it's hard to find sympathy for poor Ms. Leeann Tweeden who is on video grinding & groping one of the USO musicians, & wrapping her thigh around and bottom-slapping Robin Williams (married). Don't rush to judgement on Al - wait for the Ethics Committee.
21
There are shades of gray in all of this madness. Ms.Goldberg's column last week was a rush to judgement that reflected many of her audience's casting about for simple answers to a strange, many-pronged problem.
There are NO pat answers to this evolving story about men in power exploiting women. Where are the standards? By what rubric do we 'grade' the severity of the offenses? How do we discern a Jerk from a narcissist, or a corporate predator from a pedophile?
It is time to say enough! No more! From this moment on these situations must be dealt with differently, with clear due process, out in the open.
2
All this sensational news of repugnant sexual behavior is great for Trump and the anti-humane, anti-equality, anti-environment Republican agenda. Not only does this news serve to normalize Trump’s own sleazy viciousness but it robs the focus of much of the progressive political opposition and electorate away from crucial domestic and international emergencies—such as a tax bill that will just economically devastate the majority of Americans but deeply undermine the social cohesion on which our democracy stands—and wastes it in a backward looking orgy of celebrity scandals.
Unquestionably, disgusting sexual exploitation has to stop without any delay. But we can’t let it mesmerize us and spark a madness of draconian retaliation in which all inappropriate sexual aggression is lumped into one poisonous pot from which every accused male is made to drink.
Once again, as in enabling Trump to be elected, we’re doing Putin’s job for him. [17.1121.1845]
1
will you please stop writing about Al Franken. there are plenty of other real predators to write about.
liberals always gnashing your teeth. We have all kinds of predators all over the place.
I bet the 2nd woman who came forward was a setup. no doubt. follow the money.
6
I believe that one of the consequences of giving Bill Clinton a pass on the Lewinsky scandal was that it contributed to Al Gore's extremely narrow defeat. The seaminess and lying tarred Gore, too.
5
Consequences should be proportional to the offense committed. It seems the social media mob defaults to the death penalty in most cases without regard to the severity, nature, number, or context of the offense. The social media mob seems all too ready to send people to the guillotine.
4
Al Franken is and always has been a complete buffoon. Perhaps not quite the cad or creep or pig that Bill Clinton, or Donald Trump, or Harvey Weinstein, or Charlie Rose, or Roy Moore, or et cetera ad nauseum ... is (or may be). But, that photo? I think you should put your second thoughts to the side. That is the real Al Franken. A fairly disgusting clown.
2
The left shooting itself in the foot again? You don't say. But I hope we keep equivocating a guy who, at best, made a bad pass at a fellow celebrity on a USO tour (but who likely is the victim of a opportunistic right wing hit job by a Hannity operative - how else does Roger Stone know the day before?) with a guy who harassed 9 of his subordinate employees, exposing himself, or a guy who was a serial statutory rapist/sexual batterer, or a guy who grabs women by their genitals or kisses them without consent. The lack of any nuance, the absurdity of the call for him to resign, the orthodox refusal to even consider the claims on their merits and the motives and credibility of the accuser, are laughable testaments to everything that has gone wrong with the Left in the last 37 years.
5
Funny how Al Franken now represents all evil. You have to give the devil his. The Republicans, the smooth operators have quietly made Roy Moore and Weinstein, more evil disappear. At this stage we have to choose men who are the best of the worst. What a choice!
3
This article, as the last installment by Michelle Goldberg, are totally missing any sense of PROPORTION and CONTEXT here. Don't let her crocodile tear hemming and hawing fool you, Goldberg is totally undermining feminists, making them sound ridiculous, in throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Senator Franken didn't have POWER over either woman accuser. While he was a bigger name than Tweeden, they were both first billing celebs on a USO tour. She wasn't his assistant, she was his peer in comedy routines. The other woman in front of her husband, they were taking the picture, in which she didn't break stride in her smile, and seems to be the best supporting witness they could dig up.
We don't send someone who shoplifts a stereo for jail for 10 years, that's what we do people convicted of child sexual assault [Roy Moore] and serial sexual assault [Trump].
I couldn't be more disheartened by these accusations, but I don't want to sound hyperbolic, but Michelle Goldberg sounds like a republican political operative. And further, she is doing exactly what the Russian propagandists did, in sewing doubt, false equivocation, feigning moral outrage.
I hate comments that say: "@NYT, why would you post such a terrible column?", but based on my feelings, and the comments here, Goldberg is not remotely adding anything productive While I disagree, David Brooks, and at least sometimes Ross Douthat and Bret Stephens don't leave reality at the door when they write here.
8
Very good point about the power.
1
It seems to me that the vast majority of these sexual harassment cases are falling on the democrat side rather than republicans. As a result, die-hard liberals like Michelle Goldberg have to justify it in some way, right? After all, who cares what a liberal man does to women as long as they are voting the right way on abortion rights and high taxes. And what is Donald Trump accused of exactly? A little locker room talk, and the last time I checked that wasn't illegal.
5
How quickly you forget Bill O’Reilly, Roger Ailes, the groper in chief. Once again the media is letting us down by letting the narrative be shifted to implicate those on the left while ignoring the same or worse behavior of those on the right.
Maybe this is why Hillary lost: many Democrats obviously disagree with her when she said all women have the right to be believed
1
Let me ask this question: Did Leann Tweeden vote for Donald Trump knowing full well of his admission to sexual assault? Did Lindsay Menz vote for Donald Trump with the same knowledge? If so, why are they going after Senator Franken? If they are essentially giving Trump a pass for admitted assault, they have no ground to accuse anyone else.
I have said it before: I believe the motives--and therefore the accusations by these women--are spurious, given the timing and their political affiliations. In fact, there has been NO EVIDENCE to corroborate Ms. Menz' allegations, which seem highly unlikely given that her husband and father were standing right there. I saw her father on a news clip last night claiming he witnessed it--but did nothing?? What kind of man is this??
I came down hard on this columnist yesterday for her call for Franken to resign. I think knee jerk reactions--or overreactions--are going to kill the #METOO movement, and I want this to be the sea change that it has started to be. But it has to be honest, reasonable, and fair. My daughters depend on it!
Conservatives are laughing their heads off right now watching us Liberals tear each other apart because we actually have values that make us act on these violations, while they remain solidified in their resolve to strip away our rights and moral fabric. Let's not ruin good lives without proof.
Let's DEMAND responsibility from EVERYONE!
12
Yes. Exactly so.
Like Bill Clinton's Vast Right Wing Conspiracy and Trump's Fake News, we are asked to ignore the man (intentional) and focus on his actions. Two rapists as President who are beloved by their followers and apologists. Until Americans require people of character in office, we will continue to view our government as a group of selfish, untrustworthy, power hungry thugs. As some point being honest and selfless must be a guiding principles
I don't see how Franken can be lumped in with Weinstein, Trump, Moore and Rose. There was only one reason Leeann Tweeden was on that USO tour.....to titillate troops. As a comedienne, Franken hammed up the existing sexual objectification of her role, a role in which the USO and Leeann herself were complicit. If you're concerned about female dignity, don't send a Hooters spokesperson to parade around in front of salivating soldiers. Send someone who looks like Eleanor Roosevelt to play the piano.
10
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-20...
Read the supposed victims own words in this CNN report. Knowing I'l get flamed I don't believe either of these women. And the press repeatedly misrepresenting the facts is inexcusable. Additionally not mentioning the women's politics and Tweeden's work history is lousy reporting. Printing the facts is not blaming the victim
First He did not touch her and if he had she would have know it and waked up. Second, right he grabbed her butt in front of her husband in a busy public place. The hashtag I believe her is as inane as I believe him. Come on people can we please not be stupid? Or not, and oh yeah how about honest? Does that come into it?
How many more lives are going to be ruined for behavior many women have exhibited?
4
He may be a creep but he's our creep?
2
Should we be hypocrites or should we eat our own? Oh the joy of watching lefties twist themselves into moral contortions.
3
The whole Franken affair seems to me a red herring. I don't know enough about the 'kiss', was it just a case of mixed signals? While uncomfortable isn't even close to a transgression someone should lose their career over.
The photo while poor humor and degrading isn't assault. He isn't even touching the women, who is wearing body armor! How can we as a society create an equivalence with someone using their power to assault and coerce women what Weinstein, C.K, or Moore are accused of doing is disgusting and morally reproachable. What Franken is accused of is simply not comparable.
Maybe there is more to the story , but for now there is not a trail of Franken using his position of fame, power, and influence to coerce or assault women. The fanny grab during a group photo? Please... was it purposeful or accidental? I don't know why everyone is willing to string Franken up for what to me seems likely accidental or simply bad taste, but there is an eerie momentum to this moment.
7
One approach I wish we might try with folks like Franken amounts to kicking their asses and telling them to get back to work. As bizarre as it might sound, one approach which jumps to mind would be for such an individual to volunteer for corporal punishment of some variety ( but not something that would lock them away for years ). After such punishment was carried out, they would be kept on a tighter leash ( he might have to start living like Pence ) but the individual in question would be expected to get back to doing work for the betterment of all, having been given a very painful reminder not to put others in harms way and now actively being held accountable.
1
I appreciate your thoughtful and nuanced view of the arguments on both sides of the issue and the dilemma that they create in our mind and the choices we make as citizens with a conscience as well as a political affiliation. I believe in sharing the dilemma you experience, you model for all of us how to face complex issues that possess contradictions and compromises seemingly on all sides. From an ethical perspective, the conclusion to which I believe you have arrived, reflects a teleological ethical perspective; that is, the decision and action that leads to the most amount of good and the least amount of harm, all things considered. In the case of Senator Franken, that would be vigorously censoring his past actions while continuing to support him as he continues to work as a Senator to pass laws that are in support of women's rights and opportunities.
2
Surely one cannot compare Franken's situation with that of Harvey Weinstein, Bill Clinton, or Roy Moore? Each one is different and needs to be judged separately. I don't see a reason that Franken should resign, provided that he apologize and behave himself in the future. Surely a grope, while harrassment, is not sexual assault? (and in the first incident, there was no grope, as the article states, it was a bad joke). The outrage against Harvey Weinstein I see as fully justified. Bill Clinton's behavior crossed many lines (he's no Weinstein but did abuse his position of power to get laid with interns), but there was initially no reason for Clinton to resign, until he perjured himself, that is. That a President could get away with such a serious offense made a mockery of the justice system. Roy Moore, based on numerous highly believable accounts, preyed on young girls. And this is the icing on the cake on top of the many repulsive and abhorrent things he has said in the past. Such a man should not be on a ballot, and if he is, should not get elected, and if he is elected, should be expelled from the senate.
7
Neither can one compare Harvey Weinstein and Roy Moore with Bill Clinton.
1
An unwanted touching of private areas with the intent to gratify sexual desires of the toucher or touchee is sexual battery or its equivalent in most jurisdictions.
2
It's not surprising to see leftist joining in excusing politicians on the left.
2
I think the twenty-one women in the U.S. Senate should express their position on whether Mr. Franken ought to stay or go.
Unlikely to happen, but I would like that.
4
And Trump.
Unlikely to happen, but I would like that.
1
Sure, it's easy to denounce Mr. Moore, from Alabama, but it's true that when it hits closer to home, not only Sen. Franken but now Charlie Rose, the most erudite of them all, it hurts. I don't remember a time when I didn't fall asleep with his PBS interviews swirling in my brain.
Yet I have no problem with never seeing him again on television - someone who thinks wandering out of his shower sans clothes during a work meeting is acceptable, EVER. I originally thought Mr. Franken, for one episode, should be spared, but grabbing a woman's butt is NEVER acceptable. (In public, even married, it's a bit disrespectful.) These men have no regard for women, it's that simple.
Not every man behaves like these morons and the ones that do should not be part of the public trust. Women in the workplace should be safe, period. Some ask why they didn't speak up sooner, well they did. Mr. Rose's longtime female executive producer Yvette Vega wrote of her mea culpa and shame for not doing something when they did speak up. Really? Now? After the scandal hits? I have no respect for her, either. She chose her career over doing the right thing. She - and all who protect immoral and illegal behavior - are equally guilty.
Finally, after years of drip drip drip sexual harassment the dam broke and it's a flood. It will continue and maybe a backlash but at last, someone is listening. These are not good but imperfect men as Ms. Goldberg writes, they're sexual predators. They do harm.
5
I am saddened that we are not having a realistic discussion on sex. We seem hell bent on making sexual desires and all unwanted expression of those desires "horrific". We seem to be talking about very few forcible rapes here- the act that most likely rates a "horrific" adjective And we lump together inappropriate touching of underage girls (post-pubescent so please stop calling it pedophilia) with unwanted touching of adult women who should be able to assess the situation and act accordingly. So, please let's sort through these allegations and actual events and put them in their proper perspective. Please, let's focus of understanding human sexuality and how to we teach our boys and girls to have successful sexual lives especially when their needs fall outside of socially acceptable norms. Masturbating in front of a stranger probably falls outside of these norms, but I don't call it a horrific crime. So, let's get some reality checks in here. I hope we stop getting opinions about the "horrific' acts of Al Franken from NYT columnists and the women on cable news and instead get some perspective by those who study human sexuality and culture. And I hope Al Franken stays right where he is in the Senate. He is a good man with an apparently healthy sexual drive and when rebuffed, he didn't persist.
17
Pedophilia is not a criminal charge. But child molest or sexual misconduct with a minor are. And both are characterized by sexual conduct with persons who are not adults by adults who, by definition, are offending against children! Post-pubescence is irrelevant to the charge; it is based upon age of the child, and sometimes aggravated by the age gap between child and offender.
Once I put my hand on a man's knee under the table at a dinner time. Another time I walked into a man's office, closed the door and kissed him.
Am I guilty of a horrific offense, or does this only work one way? Thank you for injecting some reality into the discussion. Men and women work together, attractions form, people sometimes act. Human nature. Save the outrage for the truly outrageous.
Thank you for injecting some reality into this discussion.
Once I put my hand on a man's knee under the table at a company dinner party. Another time I walked into a man's office, closed the door, and kissed him. Now thinking that if I were a male and holding elected office, this might be enough to bring me down, though in mitigation I guess I could say the men in question were not subordinates. How I envy those with no sexual skeletons in their closets, who can feel so free to pass judgment.
If you dig deepn enough, every man in any position of power, no matter how small, will have a sexual harrassment skeleton in the closet. This gravitational wave of exposed mad men behavior will continue to ripple through America and the world for months if not years.
3
Contorted and distorted thinking on the part of this columnist, all in the name of condemning those with whom she disagrees, and excusing those who (seem to) hold the same views as her.
7
You know, I read Ms. Goldberg's column last week and thought it was an overreaction. I thought this column was excellent until she took the moral high ground that democrats are better than republicans. It would be great if we could leave politics out of it and talk about this as a societal issue instead. I'm not a fan of Franken and never was but I also don't think he should be kicked out of office. I read over the weekend that Jane Curtain said that this is starting to look like a "witch hunt". When will we start seeing claims of "he looked at me in a lascivious manner"? I guarantee that all over the world tonight they'll be men and woman of all political and professional and non-professional persuasions having drinks in a bar and one will think that the other is leading them on and it may lead to a touch of a thigh. The appropriate response when I was growing up was , "sorry, but we're not going there" or an inconspicuous push of the hand or perhaps a "get the heck off me"; rather than a Tweet or a Facebook post that said "so and so just touched my thigh"
7
Why is it so difficult to accept there are different levels to sexual harrassment? I say this as a female who has had an unwanted tongue of a superior stuck down her throat and frankly would never think of calling the guy out publicly and humiliating him and his family, just not that important in the scheme of things. I honestly think if women were to do this, we would be calling out a good portion of the male sex for stupid boorish behaviour that they must be made aware of as such, like teaching children correct behaviour, for sure there has to be education and rethinking like many governments now do for judges, but come on to ruin the guy, to ruin his career, no sorry, I don't accept this. To me Al Franken's behaviour which he committed before he was an elected official and not connected to running for office falls within this category. Boorish and stupid but correctable.
13
There should be a mass exit parade of all violators led by the POTUS . King of the wicked !!
4
Are you referring to Bill Clinton?
1
We also need to put Mr. Franken's behavior in context. Ms. Tweeden did her own sexual harassing on that tour as well - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029861640 - so this is feeling more like GOP hit job than anything else. I don't agree with the mock grab photo of Mr. Franken but the state fair photo? With the woman's husband standing right there, taking the picture? I doubt Mr. Franken would be stupid enough to do a full-on butt grab without that woman or her husband saying something right there, never mind waiting how many YEARS to disclose this? I have always been an ardent feminist (I'm 52), but let's separate the serial harassers and predators from one stupid mistake and one shaky at best allegation. Mr. Franken needs his ethics probe so the truth can come out and then let's decide whether to crucify him or not.
21
Everyone should see those photos. This smelled bad and is bad.
The dilemma is understandable. In a perfect world, every man who has harassed a woman or created an environment that made a woman (especially a work colleague) uncomfortable would be held accountable. But this has to be viewed in context.
The reality is we are in a battle for the country, and the good side is losing. The Republicans hold all levers of power and do not care at all about the types of concerns that progressives have. They elect a sexual abuser as President and will soon happily elect a child molester as Senator.
We cannot unilaterally disarm because of ideals. Rapists like Weinstein and serial harassers like Charlie Rose should definitely pay the price of losing their careers and serve prison time when justified. But Franken (and others like him who will probably turn up soon) should not.
And if there are concerns about being called hypocrites -- don't let it bother you. Evangelical Republicans have no such worries, and we have been calling them hypocrites for some time. They are just happy that the neanderthal Gorsuch is on the Supreme Court, taking the seat that McConnell stole from Preisdent Obama. Remember that?
13
Take no prisoners. I repeat, take no prisoners, no one gets a pass, no double standard. There is the crazy idea that a person can compartmentalize abuse and still walk the high road of women's rights.
My art history professor was one of the great minds of his time, respected by many feminist artists. He even choreographed a feminist art performance with Judy Chicago, who was carried on a chariot by one hundred naked men up a hill to a fun-loving orgy/bacchanal.
However, since he was such a proponent of women's representation in art history, he was only given a mild warning when I as a freshman complained about his unwelcome massages. Then a few years later, when it became known that he raped a student and physically attacked another for spurning his "love" he was given faculty emeritus status, and remained on the payroll if he took early retirement with full package.
So too bad liberal sexists.There are plenty of women and men who can talk and chew gum with their hands in their pockets at the same time.
6
All this disgusting news is great for Trump, serving to normalize his own sexual predations, and thereby to strengthen his push for the anti-humane, anti-fairness, anti-environmental Republican agenda.
4
We forgive our allies anything...that's called hypocritical. It certainly came back to bite Hillary...
5
The Hillary reference needs clarification. Maybe if one listens to only Fox and Breitbart it is clear, but for those of his who prefer real journalists it’s a totally obscure reference.
1
Michelle Goldberg needs to watch to the Tweeden interview where Tweeden says that in the photo she was sleeping and unaware what Franken was doing because he did not touch her. I agree that the action of Franken in the photo is rude and should definitely not be part of a working situation, but he definitely did not grope Ms. Tweeden at that time. That is the joke, a stupid junior high school level joke, using the angle of the camera that it simulates actually groping but it was not. It similar to photos of people making it look that they are tipping the Tower of Piza over.
11
He is not your ally. He only pretends to be in favor or Womens rights so that he can molest women. That is what all of them do.
2
I admit I was torn about Senator Franken. He is one of the most brilliant minds in Washington and it would be terrible to lose him. He is doing a difficult job in a hostile environment and keeping his cool.
He is not accused of rape and child molestation. He allegedly put his hand on a woman's rear that came up to him to have a photo taken all which probably took a matter of moments. This all occurred in front of her family and no one said a word then. Tweeden readily accepted his apology for an alleged kiss. The photo is juvenile, for sure.
He is not in the "open secret" club that politics and Hollywood have protected for decades. These men are being accused of pedophilia and violent crimes.
Yes, it's confusing, but he has also taken the high road. He has apologized and has offered to cooperate with any kind of ethical inquiry. Almost all of the others have lawyered up, been fired from jobs, paid off countless women, and most of all denied all allegations.
THAT is the big difference.
8
You just let Trump off the hook.
1
To summarize the Leftist’s position: sexual harassment is ok if you’re rich, white, powerful and liberal
3
You know, I am wondering why the bright Light of feminine power has not lit up the petty thug who is desecrating the office of the president as I write.
Where is the righteous wrath of the Light, "when an amoral, thrice-married, misogynistic narcissist" to say nothing of a 12 times accused female predator is still stalking the land and "spewing his venom?
Why does this blight go so unaddressed. Why do we not see an unending stream of Light on this fraud who actually threatens the life of the entire human race?
Daily commentary, a steady stream of reporting and writing by those who have the opportunity to shine that light in the media would be Good.
5
"...whose alleged misdeeds fall far short of criminal"? Grabbing a woman who is resisting you by the back of her head and pulling her head forward so you can forcefully stick your tongue in her mouth is, at a minimum, assault, a crime and a "sex crime" at that . Please stop the linguistic and logical contortions in trying to minimize, rationalize or even excuse the man's actions simply because his politics align with yours. It's disgusting.
On comparing to Moore, Trump, Weinstein, Louis C. K., Republicans, Martians, garden gnomes, etc., do you think the victims are focused on what other people did or didn't do others? Of course not, it's not relevant and shouldn't be considered by fair minded people in judging (yes that's right, judging) the vile behavior described.
1
Ms. Goldberg, you "adore" a public figure who degrades women? Wow. Then again, you also adored Bill Clinton, who similarly degraded women - although maybe you believe that was just all made up by the VR-WC?
You are completely confused, and should stop writing for the NYT until you get your head on straight. You cannot embrace and cheer on #MeToo if you too are too willing to set aside your men-behaving-badly beliefs in favor of your political beliefs.
How do you feel about Muslim men treating Muslim women (actually, all women) as second-class citizens? Do your beliefs about diversity and multiculturalism trump your beliefs about the rights of women to be treated better than animals?
One last question: Do you know what the word "hypocrite" means?
8
Do you know what the word “disingenuous” means?
1
You "fear participating in a sex panic."
Too late.
5
enough already, Franken has given an apology , Tweedon has accepted it, I can't believe anyone thinks it is not heartfelt. Do a few seconds of stupidity define a man?? The photo was stupid but it seems doubtful that he was touching her and she was wearing a flak vest. As far as the second "accusation" my God the woman was standing in front of her husband and posted the smiling picture, do we have to search our memories for every potential three second physical encounter? I must give the standard and truthful disclaimer "sexually harassment is an important issue" but this country is having a nervous breakdown, while we blithely allow a self admitted sexual harasser to occupy the Presidency, to destroy our tax code, environmental regulations and go to the brink of nuclear war. Basta
5
Tweeden has associations with Hannity. The highly sexually charged comedic air of that USO tour puts a very different context in light. Did you know Tweeden openly groped and gyrated against a music performer and allowed him to do the same? Al Franken has no history of sexual misconduct with women, while at the same time being well known for championing women's rights. These allegations need to be carefully weighed...
10
wow.....this piece is promoting a double standard and we all know it!
5
It's nice that you've reconsidered your knee-jerk, ill-advised, and ill-informed rush to judgment on Senator Franken. Your backpedaling is a little self-serving for the most part. Why don't you sort out your views on your own time, instead of that of your now deeply discouraged readers?
3
I am not invested in Al Franken or his career in any respect, but I think have a pretty good nose for political dirty tricks. For the first accusation, the accuser presented a photo that she intended, and many people took, as corroborating evidence of her primary accusation, which was the kiss. She herself has said she has no memory of being groped, but "realized" it after she saw the photo. But the photo DOES NOT show her being groped; it shows Franken pretending to grope her and mugging for the camera. Franken's actions in the photo were crude, juvenile and utterly tasteless, but that's all you can really say about them. But the photo itself cannot, and should not, be taken as corroboration of anything at all.
As for the second accusation, it is even less credible than the first. The second accuser expects us to believe that Franken, then a U.S. Senator, deliberately grabbed her butt . . . in the middle of a state fair with hundreds of people milling about and as her husband looked on and snapped the photo. Unless she is also asserting that Al Franken had a death wish, in what universe does this even make any sense?
8
Michelle might be paid by Fox News to write this??? Her quote Frankens lame non-denial...(this was a set up.)...I doubt Michelle would remember a photo at a state fair where you put your arm around the person in a photo op....I am a feminist and I cannot stand this woman's pov in this...Do some research about the right wing's attack on Franken..This is just like all the attacks on HRC ....LIES probably by these women blown up in the media and jumped on by writers like Goldberg..
3
Women and the Liberals are their own worst enemies first unlike the slithering Republicans.
1
scanning the comments here, it seems people are skipping of discussion of the specifics of the alleged transgression. Franken, while touring as a comedian, posed for a sophomoric picture, leering with hands hovering over the chest of a sleeping fellow USO entertainer... who is literally wearing body armor. Ballistic protection, against rifle bullets, much less hands. The intention was pure irony, and it failed . If it needs to be explained he obviously couldn't grope his sleeping victim if he tried, the visual joke failed. Since the unconsenting other side of the attempted humor expressed distress, her distress needs to be respected. Demanding Mr Franken resign over it is nonsense. It's so far unclear if the follow-on complaint of an alleged hand on a butt during another public photo op means more evidence of moral turpitude, or clumsiness and miscommunication, or some of both. If progressives intend to politically execute Franken rather than defend him, good luck winning our political struggle with right wing opponents, solidifying ground rules that we are disqualified unless flawless, while they are free to be as bad as they want to be and stay in the game.
2
When does the Pervert in Charge POTUS resign ?
3
The vitriol this has created is unfathomable. One of my guilty-pleasure websites Wonkette today has a lead editorial claiming that Sen. Franken 'reportedly' sleeps with (f-word) fifteen year old girls and 'reportedly' convinces them to not use a condom. I dared ask for sources to 'reportedly' and was ganged up on like I was claiming that black lives matter in the pages of Breitbart. I get it -- women who have put up with this for years, decades, centuries are angry. It is a cathartic moment. Men are angry about it too and I think we can use this moment if we keep our heads and pay attention to facts. Or we can let it rip us apart. Men are allies in this; it is a human problem.
1
I'm going to accuse people of sexual harassment as a tool to get what I want. Get someone out of the picture, get a girl, get a discount at the tire store- endless situations. You literally need no evidence and not one, but perhaps, two accusers (or more, more probably) makes it really real!
And that guy (gal?) accused is toast. Guilty for ever with a digital record!
Apparently everyone just haaaaaates those people (sex criminals,perverts,etc..)- no one will defend them, no one wants to be associated with them, no one wants to believe them. And there doesn't need to be an investigation, charges, courts - just a few victims statements on their social media hangouts, professional associations bulletin boards, church - I don't know. Make sure to release the second accusers statement a few weeks after the first- people will absolutely be convinced. I mean- two women- what...are...the..chances. Because women are better than men and certainly they are when it comes to being harassed,etc..
I'll add that nobody's going to know who did it either, just random women that I paid $40 to point the finger at whomever I think sucks. Who's really going to investigate any of this, they're busy with their phones and stuff. They'll just hear that you're a groper and more on.
2
I, too, respect and like Senator Franken. When I heard about the incident that happened during is tenure as a senator I was just heartbroken. But I am a teacher of middle school students who has also taught high school. I work constantly to edit my words and actions. I believe it's my duty to avoid causing my students, many who are already uneasy about their bodies, any discomfort. Therefore it is critical they feel their interaction with me takes place in a true safe space. If I try and rationalize Franken's behavior because I see him as a decent man and an important progressive then I am no better than a Republican who will vote for someone accused of multiple molestations just to pass a tax cut for the rich. I'm afraid that there is no defense for Mr. Franken that won't apply to Mr. Moore. On this point neither seems worthy of a seat in the U.S. Senate.
5
For what it's worth, I worked with Sen. Franken briefly in the mid-'90s. He was professional and polite.
5
Because he didn’t harass every woman he couldn’t have harassed any woman?
I’m not usually prone to conspiracy theories, but I find it troubling that Senator Franken is understandably laying low when an issue he is a passionate voice for ordinary citizens- Net Neutrality - is being overturned by the FCC. Coincidence?
10
A very well-written and thought provoking article. Thank you.
I think it is important to realize too that not every accusation is entirely true, pure or without some other agenda or bias.
5
By all means keep Franken, & I say that as an independent who dislikes democratic socialism more than the GOP, which I also dislike. I do however certainly want more conservative SC justices rather than those who legislate via judicial fiat.
So, keep him. He only won in '08 by 225 votes & now he has damaging baggage & could easily be beat by a republican.
If he goes, the dem governor would appoint another democrat who would be the incumbent next election, with potentially far less baggage.
Then, by the new definition of sexual harassment, which seems to include looking the wrong way at them or an "unwanted advance", I'm not sure there is a man who could pass the test, so make it a women. BTW, how does a man know it's an "unwanted advance" until he tries?
1
I'm disappointed in Ms. Goldberg, whose column I almost always love, and the liberals who seem to think that just because Mr. Franken is a progressive ally in a time when we don't exactly have an abundance of them, his crimes are okay. Sorry, sexual assault is never acceptable, and it doesn't matter who is the perpetrator or even the extent of their crimes. If you cross a line, you messed up and you should be held accountable. We don't change a culture of misogyny and objectification by teaching society that when men are on our side, what they did is okay. No man who acts inappropriately towards a women deserves admiration or respect. If need be, I will be a feminist first and a liberal second on this issue. I understand that it was easier to cry "Feminism! We need it!" when it was just Republicans and perceived political enemies who also seemed to oppose feminism -- but I stand with women, and I realize that this stance may require sacrifices. You should understand that too.
8
Well said! I am thoroughly disappointed in this piece as well. It seems like the author is willing to promote a double standard and then tries to rationalize it.
1
Senator Franken should not resign. Let the people of Minnesota decide that. He has served our state well. He is knowledgeable of the issues, many in congress are not and we need his voice more than ever.
20
Do the people of Alabama get that same right?
2
Trump and his minions have at least one thing going: manipulation of the media.
Franken has been accused of heinous behavior by two women with obvious connections to the far right - one who has evidently made her living selling her naked body - and the photographic evidence shows the opposite of the accusations. Yet the press - even the so-called "liberal" outlets - cannot find it in themselves to examine the evidence before bashing the man.
29
Stalking teen girls at the mall and at their schools is "heinous." An unwelcome kiss during a skit rehearsal is gauche and deserves a scolding, but "heinous"?
1
So why aren't the Roy Moore accusers instruments of the far left? You are sadly mistaken if you think people like Franken cannot be guilty of the behavior for which he has been accused. Just because he claims to be a progressive doesn't mean he can't also be guilty of not being the perfect gentleman. And unlike Moore, Franken has admitted that he acted inappropriately. Maybe you can debate consequences, but please don't deny the behavior for which Franken has already apologized. I suspect Franken knows better than you.
I said we’d come to regret this hysterical witch hunt. And I was right.
25
If these folks were Republicans, no one would be defending them in the comments!
12
Not true. I am a liberal Democrat and when I heard the women accuse George H Bush of assault I said it was nonsense. I am a feminist and I certainly didn’t vote for Bush senior but I know a witch hunt when I see one. Franken may be a cad but he is no molester.
1
All of these stories and op-ed pieces are turning me into the compleat conspiracy theorist. Why Al Franken? And why now? Could it be that Senator Franken is getting in the way of Republicans and their insatiable desire for tax cuts for the rich? Did Franken curry any favors with Jeff Sessions when the attorney general appeared before the Senate's Committee on the Judiciary? Is it coincidence that we're focusing on Franken when the FCC rules it will roll back net neutrality?
Franken is an effective senator and a thorn in the side of those who want to run roughshod on democracy. Nothing will suit their needs more than getting rid of him. And it's easy because Democrats have a habit of eating their own.
Personally, I think he's being set up. But even if he isn't being set up I still don't believe these allegations warrant his resignation. Franken has called for an investigation and I would like to see what will come of that. I also don't think we can afford to lose Franken. His voice is too important. He's our voice. And good lord, if I were a praying man I'd be pleading that my gut is right on this one.
26
BOTH of Franken's accusers are Trump voters. I'm sure they are VERY serious about the issue of sexual harassment.
Of course it's political. There is absolutely no way it is NOT political.
5
Totally agree with you Tom , he , Franken has also been mentioned as a possible run for president in 2020 . Hmmm , Kirsten Gillibrand's call for his resignation may possibly be that she too has been mentioned as a possible for 2020 . They're all political animals. Devouring our own while the Dons and Roys will still be in office .
We appear to be heading down a road on the harassment of women where the men who admit wrongdoing get punished, and the men who deny, deny, deny are rewarded by keeping their positions. There is no reason for Franken to go when Trump stays, when Clarence Thomas stays, when Roy Moore, if he wins, will undoubtedly stay. Punishing individuals for having the chutzpah to own their errors is sending the wrong message, both to the women who were harassed and to other men, to buckle up and keep lying.
15
Bill Clinton was the ultimate denier, and he stayed. And because Clinton denied and stayed, and was protected by feminists, there is no reason why Trump and Moore should not learn from the Clinton spectacle and do the same thing as Clinton.
Franken, like Moore, Weinstein, Lewis, Spacey, and all the others abused their power to exploit women and men who lacked the ability to challenge their abuser's privilege. If we start parsing, explaining, or otherwise excusing one abusers actions because they are less egregious than another abuser, we send a message of impunity to existing and would-be abusers.
7
Where is the serious investigation into Trump's sexual adventures? Why have his tax returns remained hidden? Where are the ethics investigations into his business deals post inauguration?
23
"It’s a strange political fiction that anyone can really separate partisanship from principle."
Nice to have it from the horse's mouth all this moral posturing is not unmixed with partisanship. (After all, Moore's accusers could have come forward during the primary...)
6
Quote: "My instinct is often to defend men I like".
Lady justice wears a blind fold for a reason. Abuse, sexual bullying, should not be viewed through a liberal or conservative lens. In the words of Joseph Welch, " At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
8
Al Frank--at least if the picture is the principal basis--is not equivalent to the accusations against Moore, Rose and Trump. The picture is the equivalent of the high school graduation or yearbook picture that shows kids making obscene gestures. Poor taste, yes. But not sexual harassment--better sexual abuse--as the others are accused of.
14
A rare sight in opinion writing, a column that ends in an impasse. Fascinating.
2
Good luck dealing with the guilt you will, and should, feel Mz. Goldberg, if Franken yields to the hysterical pile-on and feels compelled to step down. Remember:"the perfect is the enemy of the good" and "let (s)he who is without sin cast the first stone".
Your dawning realization of the complexity of discriminating between immature boorishness and sexual predation will serve you well as this story unfolds. I just hope your use of your very public platform to issue a knee-jerk initial verdict, without full discovery of the facts of the case, isn't a fatal blow.
17
The Left’s problem is that nothing real is going to happen to Franken for doing exactly what women say they find so reprehensible; which, of course, points to the real issue: This nation’s moral parameters having expanded beyond the parepheral vision of the Founding Fathers’ philosophy. Right now, not in the future, America is officially an octopus in a fistfight with itself.
Our system is quaking at increasing intensity as diverging rapidly widening fault lines appear and spread like cracking ice. When chaos comes, as I think it will, and all the dry tender sleeping restless in our streets (together with all the other angry, frustrated, pent-up, violent, severely alienated, uselessly educated, and insanely armed) catches fire, it is going to burn everything in its raging path; which means, Dear Reader, probably you.
Our ongoing national food fight is going to result in our starvation. We are being irreversibly harmed atop the table as we gash into each other’s ankles like animate razor blades beneath it. The culture in place allows, enables—encourages—us to be disengaged, disconnedted, caring only for ourselves—failing ever to live up to a thing we preach—and everyone is "surprised" and is "deeply saddened" by sexaul abuse in the workplace.
Stop it! Sink this food fight in a row boat!
Everyone pretending it’s the other guy:
Women! Thy name is Kellyanne Conway every bit as much as Mother Theresa. Own it, you non-innocents, you!
Men? Too late:
Defenestrate!
"Sexual assault is disqualifying. Unless they have the same political beliefs as me." This ridiculous view started with Hillary Clinton this election- "All women must be believed. Except for all the women who accused my husband." What a disgusting double standard
21
Al Franken has done all of us a favor by agreeing to cooperate with an investigation into allegations that he has engaged in sexual harassment or sexual assault. The public will be well served if some fundamental questions become standards for judging the veracity of such allegations and the certainty that the alleged offending behavior was intentional rather than a misunderstood attempt at humor or compassion (as is sometimes true of physical embraces).
As it now stands, many people are participating in a sort of mob psychology in which any allegation is immediately accepted as true and the complete banishment of the accused is called for as the consequence of any and all accusations. On the other side, some people are refusing to accept any allegations against their political allies unless they are caught in the act.
Here are some questions that could help us sort out the truth and the likelihood of public harm when allegations of sexual abuse are leveled against public figures.
Does the available evidence support the allegations?
Do witnesses or confidantes support the allegations?
Are the accusations internally consistent?
Are there multiple accusers alleging a pattern of behavior?
Did the accused have power over the accuser(s)?
Did the accused seek sexual gratification?
Does the accused deny the behavior or its alleged purpose?
Did the accuser associate or collaborate with opponents of the accused?
Could the accuser consent?
Was there consent?
6
To be on the horns of a dilemma is a terrible place to be. Sometimes one just must make a decision and be prepared to live with the results...
The Left only wants Franken to go, because they've decided he's dispensable and, in the wake of his resignation, they'll be able to point to the nobility of his action and use it to shame Republicans that they want to see removed from office as well.
Franken should resign because there's photographic evidence that he committed the offenses of which he is accused. For those who claim that they are being falsely or inappropriately accused, well, those people deserve their day in court.
Unless, of course, we've gone full witch-hunt and decided that the First Amendment is less important than the finding the truth and establishing justice.
We're in a situation now where the mere fact of an accusation is enough to ruin somebody. That is full-on McCarthyism, right there. And, it is a VERY dangerous place to be.
Franken got caught red-handed. Some others, not so much.
If we don't find a balance in dealing with the whole situation surrounding sexual harassment allegations, we are going to come a very BAD place VERY quickly.
5
Wrong.
You are saying that the Al Franken photo is hard evidence that is much more damning than the accounts of the nine women who have accused Roy Moore. That's ludicrous. You are basically saying that accusations by women should be taken with a grain of salt while "hard evidence" is king. But that's where we've been for decades. What's changed finally is that accusations by women ARE being believed and treated as evidence. Its ludicrous to say only photos matter.
We must find a way to deal with those who apologize and show a willingness to deal directly with those injured or offended by their acts. Then, we must find a way to forgive the actor. This dilemma cannot find resolution without mercy.
3
I don't understand this argument about not applying today's standards on behavior to the standards of...the 1980s and 1990s. I was around then, and I'm quite certain that sexual harassment was frowned upon. I remember it being a theme that was explored (and denounced) even in the 70s. People knew it was wrong. Some just didn't care and could get away with it. It's not the same thing.
The same is true about slavery and confederate monuments. People in 1860 knew that slavery was wrong. Some of them just didn't care.
4
You raise a great point. Look at all the people who want to take down statues and monuments to Southern generals and others from the Confederacy. Applying 2017 standards to people from more than 150 years ago. And you are exactly right about sexual harassment being frowned on since at least the 1970s. That's what made the Clarence Thomas hearings so maddening and made the Bill Clinton accusations and defenses so unbelievable in the 1990s. The standards on sexual harassment have not changed. All that may have changed is society's willingness to stop giving men a pass on it.
I am thrilled by Ms. Goldberg's willingness to publicly share her ambivalence.
These days the public sphere is dominated by proclamations, demands, and uncompromising declarations. Ambivalence, confusion, contradictions are dismissed as weak, as cowardly, or as avoiding taking a stand.
Ms. Goldberg has given voice to that space most of us actually inhabit -- the realm of uncertainty -- but rarely share out of fear our fragility will be seen as ignorance.
I didn't agree with her first column on Sen. Franken, and I admit that this column more fully reflects my own ambivalence.
But my admiration for what she has done actually has nothing to do with the substance of this whole argument.
It's her willingness to be fully human in a fully public way, with all of the flaws and confusion that implies.
4
Too bad you don't have faith that there are more good men then bad to be found on both sides of he aisle. I would rather wait a little longer for woman's issues to be addressed if it meant the good men (less flawed ones, anyway) were the ones setting the standards and living by them. Tolerance for these flawed men, in the name of the work they do allows more woman to be hurt.
2
Can you blame Alabama Republicans who are sticking with Moore? They prefer a sleaze that supports their political positions on most issues over a stand up guy that doesn't.
They really are no different from Goldberg and Democrats who are making the same pathetic excuses about Clinton, Franken, Rose, Conyers(yes, he was named today), and others.
The truth is that America has lost her (his) moral compass when we will excuse abusive behavior from our side but condemn it from the other.
4
#1 MANY liberals are calling for Franken to resign. #2 Equating what he did with Roy Moore is like equating a turnstile jumper with Mengele. It's ludicrous.
3
Ms. Goldberg, I’d take your argument that consistency with principle demands the head of Al Franken seriously just as soon as you write that Hillary Clinton does not deserve elective office for her enabling Bill and especially for her treatment of Monica Lewinsky.
4
Please note that Hillary Clinton does not hold elective office, but the pervert in chief, Trump, does. The Clintons are done holding elective office. You are beating a dead horse there. If the ethics committee calls for Franken's resignation (and he was one of my favorite senators), that is fine by me. But regardless, if Franken is to be investigated then everyone else in Congess and the White House who is accused of having abused or harassed their subordinates should also be investigated. There are over 16 claims against Trump himself and he has confessed to pussy grabbing on videotape.
As for Mr Moore, the fact that a 32 year old district attorney was chasing teenagers ought to be enough for the people of Alabama to reconsider his fitness for office, but we'll see. They voted him on to the bench after he was kicked off for failing to obey the law. Better a pervert with no respect for the law of the land than a Democrat? I can tell you as a Liberal, there is no way that I would be voting for some one who was chasing teenagers. He hasn't even got the guts to say, "in my younger days, I made some very immature decisions and I recognize that they were wrong and I'm ashamed." So far difference between most (not all, but many) of the liberals who have been accused, and the conservatives is that many of the so-called liberals have had the decency to admit it, express shame and apologize whereas most of those conservatives have just denied and attacked the accusers.
I admire Michele Goldberg as an informed, independent, and clear thinker but I was dismayed by her call for Al Franken's resignation. I think there is a huge difference between acting (literally) as a creep, as he was doing in the Tweeden case, and being a creep. Let's remember that a group of women who worked with Franken have come out to defend him and say that he always treated them with respect. When I interact with men, I can tell the difference between someone who treats me as a person and someone who treats me as an alien and suspect subspecies. I admit that my judgement of Franken is questionable. I don't know him personally. But I've heard him interact with women many times and I think he treats women as fellow human beings. Look at his relationship withi his wife!! (I'm not addressing the new allegation until I hear more about it but it sounds fishy to me.)
9
I personally don't know what Al Franken actually has or has not done. Nor do I know anything directly about his accusers or context. However, I do know that accusations are not the same as "convictions." Recently this paper published "A List of Men Accused of Sexual Misconduct", promising to keep it updated. What's next, an editorial advocating placing a Scarlet Letter on the foreheads of everyone accused? I expect such from the Enquirer, not this paper. Where-there's-smoke-there's-fire is useful for doing serious, investigative journalism. It is not appropriate for branding people, convicting them in the media, as it were.
There is a book by Norah Levin about the old Jewish Socialists called, "While The Messiah Tarried", essentially a work about people striving to make the world a better place instead of waiting for a messianic age of perfection to appear. Leftists continue to insist on the Messiah, not understanding that often the "perfect" really is the greatest enemy of the good. And too often Leftists rather be interred with a tombstone bearing the epitaph, "But I was right!" than stay around and slog through another dirty day. Meanwhile, the Right happily takes power using what they have. You don't give "your people" a pass, but you there is a hierarchy of "sin."
The media, including this paper, rather encourage the soap opera of personalities (Weinstein, Moore, Franken) than deal with the fundamental issues themselves, clickbait being more profitable than substance.
3
It occurs to me that the President's comments on tape about women and what they want and what you can do to them if you are.... is in a totally different category from many actions of some of these other men.
Not condoning or excusing anybody, but the President's recorded comments come from a really low and pathetic place.
I still don't know what to make of this corrupted man now called our President.
3
He is what he says he is: a sexual predator. And that seems to be just fine with 62 million voters.
I think this is similar to the relations between poor African Americans, drug-dealers and other criminals in their community, and the police.
How do we break this kind of destructive pull of kinship?
You were wrong last week, and you were almost big enough to admit it this week. Keep trying!
9
"...The case of Al Franken shows how painful and confusing it is...
Well - depends on what the meaning of "it" is...
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/1998/09/bill_...
"It" "is" ironic - isn't "it"...
I've always thought Bill Clinton was one of our greatest contemporary centrist presidents...
Am dead serious...
But - the right isn't buying it...Nor now - the left - either...
I feel your pain - and confusion...
As far as the lead-in pic...Far more interesting to know what...
> The male staffer is chanting
> The female staffer is whispering
> The other female staffer is stifling
Perhaps Al was groping the sheet of paper in hand - while pretending to joke about it...
1
Someday, after the next horrible war, we will be asked, "What did you do when the most regressive tax bill since Teddy Roosevelt was rammed through Congress? When Net Neutrality was destroyed? When deportation due to ethnicity was underway." Answer: "Oh, we were tearing ourselves to pieces over whose behind was patted by whom."
For the last ten years Al Franken has fought for me because he has used his position to strengthen women, economic justice, and peace. Calling for him to step down is weak and unacceptable. And as deplorable as his actions were, Charlie Rose's misdeeds are not worthy of all this coverage: Let the national inquirer pursue it. Don't get down in the gutter with them. It's as if the prez has succeeded in his goal of turning politics into an episode of The Apprentice.
25
Yes, well said! Could not agree more. While the good side is tearing itself apart, the evil side is passing horribly unfair tax legislation, eliminating all consumer protections and making life generally even more miserable for those of us in the 99.5% of the population who don't have enough money to purchase a politician, after the Citizens United decision.
Your comment about The Apprentice is spot on. I never liked the American Idol tv show, so I used to joke that reality television was a sign of the downfall of western civilization. Unfortunately, that joke turned out to be far more "reality" that I could have ever thought!
3
Franken should resign. It is not about him or any one individual, it is about
upholding the cause for womens rights and against violence against women.
We as individuals are nothing, the issue is everything. The senator should include this in his resignation. I am a progressive Democrat and I like Senator Franken, but he must do the right thing here.
6
Your series of articles on this issue demonstrate powerfully the need to pause and reflect before acting as prosecutor, judge, and jury in the court of public opinion. I thought Harding's article was well-considered, as was Joy Reid's on Clarence Thomas in The Daily Beast. I appreciate this latest from you as well, but not the earlier two, which rushed to judgment, and, I am sure to Republican glee, deflected attention from the Senate chamber problem of the hour, which is Roy Moore. I applaud Nancy Pelosi's approach in handling the Conyers matter. For him, as for Senator Franken, let's give the Ethics Committees a chance to hear the evidence, weigh it, and issue decisions, which we can and should then examine for fairness. Longer term, we must continue to work hard to elect qualified women, with values we share, into public office at every level.
6
so let an ethics investigation take it's course, until everything becomes political and nothing has any meaning apart from money and power.
1
So where does the then older woman I once worked with in NYC, who made sure her staff was made up of good looking young men, with whom she traveled and promoted up and out fit in this story of males run wild?
I'm pretty sure we all knew she now and again slept with one here and there and at the very least was catered to as she chose.
I mention this because yes, it is a man's world but isn't it just a tad sobering to consider that men are how they are because they've been allowed to be? Because they could and can do, whatever. Women know the cards are stacked against us in many gender-based ways; why even the men want to control female procreation.
My modest recollection makes me ponder what women would be like if they were the ones with most of the power.
2
We have an American ideal that Justice is blind. How I wish that we could blindfold ourselves to hide the person so that we can judge the actions on their merits (or demerits, in this case). At a minimum, we need to ask ourselves… if this were an anonymous person, how would I react? If it were a friend? If it were an enemy? And then we need to reconcile those answers. Sure, it’s idealistic. But that’s the point. We strive toward the ideal. When they go low, we go high.
4
Why aren't there any stories about Trumps misadventures with women? Maybe being someone who can be counted on to lie has its advantages. Its strange that no-one is holding someone with such a well-established record of bending the truth accountable. It almost seems like a well financed campaign whose ultimate objective is to discredit the opposition rather than get at the truth.
2
"Almost as soon as it was published I started having second thoughts. "
This is why we're heading into dangerous territory. An angry columnist or mob shouldn't be allowed to instantly act as judge, jury, and executioner to an accused person's career after they're accused of harassment. We've completely lost perspective. There are degrees to how bad a a sexual transgression can be. We also have to consider whether something is part of pattern of behavior or a rare moment of lapsed judgement.
Every situation needs to be treated on a case by case basis, and not all of them deserve the career and social death penalty. We all need to chill out.
9
I was surprised by Goldberg's quick conclusion in her previous column that Franken is finished and should go. Franken's "lewd" photo was something out of a mild moment in a Judd Apatow film, not some victimization for sexual gratification. I think Franken's taking responsibility for his actions shows that we can trust him. Goldberg's instant assessment and reconsideration make me want to wait a week before reading whatever she writes so I can catch the disclaimer.
4
This is an era, when, in a split second a person can get even for thousands of years of mistreatment. Whether male vs female, male vs male, female vs female, the pent up anger of millenia can now be brought forth with a press of a button. The effect is second only to waving a wand and vanquishing your enemy. Realities of time and culture differences are immediately erased, and replaced with the gratification of seeing your supposed enemy brought to their knees. No barter, no compromise, no true court of peers judgement. Rather, like in the SciFi classic, Forbidden Planet, it is the vengeful ID of the brain that drives this present PC battle.
4
Michelle, I respect all of the points you articulate so well. And I understand and sympathize with what you're struggling with. But please arrive at a decision you can support and be as articulate about. As you understand clearly, and painfully, this is a battle where black and white is highly dangerous. Make a call and fight for you point of view.
1
Let's be honest: those who support Franken do it because they're in the same tribe and believe he can help them "win" some larger fight. His obnoxious behavior is seen as the lesser evil (or not evil at all).
So do people who support Roy Moore. Or Donald Trump. Or whoever.
Taken as a whole, we have a very serious problem with looking past behavior on "our side" while condemning it loudly when the "other side" does it.
So most readers here can pretend that to be denouncing Roy Moore because of the harassment, but the reality is that many aren't. It's just an excuse because he's playing for the other team. Anyone supporting a good guy like Al Franken while denouncing Moore is evidence for this point.
I can hear the howls of disapproval now: the photo doesn't count because he "didn't touch her;" the skit about raping Lesley Stahl and all those sexist jokes don't count because "he was a comedian then," and the new allegation doesn't count because...good guy.
But the thing is that Roy Moore's supporters think HE'S the good guy.
Nothing will change until inappropriate actions have consequences, regardless of the team the offender is playing for.
7
Thank you for beginning to come to your senses.
7
Amazing how many liberals are posting that the women accusing Franken don't have the right to be believed
7
I am a Republican and I know for certain that Tweeden lied about the photo.
Whoever made her come forward in such a dishonest manner should fess up an our party should toss them aside.
The comedian/senator Al Franken deserves the benefit of the doubt. I'm not condoning his behavior, but the "damning" picture of him in action was taken by the woman's husband - perhaps he got carried for the camera, however, his action took place in public and in front of the woman's husband; he wasn't predatory.
Similarly the second incident happened in public and perhaps was more about being over exuberant than predatory.
3
Oh, how the moral spine is soft. A few days pass and now we learn from Ms. Goldberg that Al Franken isn’t such a bad guy after all. No, he just sexually harassed a woman forcing his tongue down her mouth then photographed her while asleep (without consent) grabbing her breasts. In effect, humiliating her in a perverse, dehumanizing way. These are actions of a morally vacuous, self-hating person with little regard for individuals that don’t say “yes to his wishes. More stories about “decent man” Al surely to follow. Count on it.
7
Liberals currently treat the voters as expendable and the leaders as essential. The thinking seems to be if they lose a few committed activists they can always draw on the vast reservoir of moderate pragmatists. Not working out too well.
I love Franken but he should resign and do time as an organizer and fund raiser to make up for this.
2
Tump had a majority of the college educated women's vote. I don't know how that figures into the calculation but Franken is still the best of a bad lot in the senate.
White, married women. Not college-educated. And rural.
Maybe Democrats need to toughen up a bit and learn how to pace themselves. While we are endlessly debating whether an effective, talented Democrat should resign for pantomimed grope of a flak-jacket-wearing sleeping woman’s breast, Republicans are merrily giving our clean air and water to polluters, gifting our internet to the greediest companies, passing tax laws that punish the middle class, placing conservative justices on courts that will now be slanted their way for many, many years. And on, and on, and on. They are fighting with advanced weaponry. We are marching out with flowers. They have no scruples. We have too many. I am for fairness and a just society but I think we need to choose our battles more wisely and to pace ourselves in our quest for a perfect society where everyone feels they are being treated absolutely fairly. Democrats, as hard as it is, put yourselves in the position of the ordinary non-coastal voter who is struggling to put food on the table. While we were championing transgender bathroom rights, Trump was promising him a better job. Guess who he voted for.
9
The Democrats have to decide whether to take the high road and not succumb to moral relativism. Even when The Orange Creature and Roy Moore represent the most egregious examples of misogyny, and worse. Whether Minnesota can appoint another Democrat shouldn't be considered. Franken has to go.
But, that said, then there must a sustained effort to call The Orange Creature and Roy Moore to account by maintaining their stories on the front page until this latest frenzy of finger-pointing, however well deserved, calms down.
One fear of mine is that after the tsunami of credible accusations subsides, false, politically motivated accusations will take their place. I fear this because the instant firings and suspensions appear, in most cases, to be commercially driven. I.e., employers are running from controversy to save their advertising base, not because it's the right thing to do. I would exempt PBS from that category, but not CBS.
If we're having a moment of clarity on this issue, then let's keep the lines clean and bright. Misogynists should step down and that includes The Orange Creature. And if Roy Moore wins the Alabama senate seat and the Republicans seat him, then they get the scarlet letter for the rest of their careers.
1
I feel your thought and pain here. I too have an urge to excuse those I like but not those I don't. To me this is wrong. It's kind of like saying Weinstein should be excused because he makes great movies, donates to causes x,y,z. Further, I don't think we can parse the severity.
1
Thankfully, in our justice system, we CAN and DO "parse the severity" of actions worthy of censure and punishment.
The Charlie Rose firing today really hit home for me. He is a highlight of my day. His insights will be sorely missed, and I feel that at least for a while I will be a less educated citizen of the world. I have an idea.
The flood of sexual harassment allegations can be a really good thing for men and women if directed appropriately. I propose a Truth and Reconciliation Committee akin to the one in post-apartheid South Africa in which the perpetrators can come out and tell the truth, the victims can feel heard and validated, and the country can understand that those actions were wrong and can never be tolerated again. This could revolutionize the workplace. The truth can only come out if there is a path to forgiveness - people cannot face losing their jobs or legally prosecuted. I am not extending this to sexual assailants/rapists. This is for inappropriate behavior in the workplace.
I just wish I knew someone who could take this on. Congresswoman Pelosi? Or Senator Feinstein? I don't want to lose more people with nothing to show...
1
The first time I heard Tweeden talk about her "incident" with Franken, I was sympathetic to her although even then I wondered at her relating the "incident" with a tragic demeanor usually associated with a violent rape. The "incident" she related was inappropriate. But to attempt to put it even near the category of what Roy Moore and Donald Trump have been accused of is utter rubbish. After seeing Leeann appear on just about every possible program she could get on and repeat the exact same story in exactly the same way, it felt like she was performing, and I had to wonder about someone who has a job in the media seeking so many outlets to repeat her "horrible" story. Her tragic expression does not match the facts of the incident, if indeed what she relates is all fact. He was ridiculous and inappropriate, but I don't think that what she relates could rise to anything above a misdemeanor. Yet, it is taking oxygen away from the more serious allegations---against Moore, Trump, and others who have done much worse to many more.
17
[Just dealing with presidents here]
Democratic presidents with "problematic" behavior towards women:
Bill Clinton (signed the first parental leave law that George H.W. Bush vetoed; ended the Reagan/Bush abortion gag rule).
John Kennedy (endorsed the concept that became Medicare under his successor - helping to keep both elderly women & men out of poverty).
Franklin Roosevelt (helped women & men by starting social security, guiding the nation through The Great Depression with his New Deal programs, defeating fascism in Germany, Italy & Japan - finished by his successor).
I'm not in any way excusing misogynist behavior either in the past or the present. But, there may be a bigger picture in some cases. Far more women suffered under policies of presidents who weren't caught up in a sex scandal while in office (Nixon, Reagan, Bush I & II). And then there's the current POTUS. Now, if only we could get more Carters & Obamas!
3
A candid, honest, refreshing article.
1
Well isn't this rich. When is it was Trump and Moore in the crosshairs, pull the trigger. Now that liberal icons like Franken, Louis CK, Charlie Rose and Harvey Weinstein, now we have to hem and haw and figure out the degrees of guiltiness.
How much more partisan can one get?
5
Two right-wing women pop up with questionable claims about Franken, and ideologues call for his head. Please check out the other photos of Leeann Tweeden on this tour, including her kissing an unsuspecting US serviceman and her happily greeting Franken a couple of years after the tour.
11
Trump is the problem, not touching.
2
I believe that many if not most men live a double life regarding their sexual identity a public one and a private one. Some times the private one breaks through with the result of the kinds of behavior that we are talking about currently. I f what believe is true and I think it is then we should look at public figures who are not current. Did Mr. Rogers have a private life we didn't know about. What about the author of Sam I Am or Walt Kelly or Maurice Sendak What are we to do about thier reputations
1
Wow, I am knocked out by this. When do columnists grapple publicly with ambivalence and indecision? You have bravely put the grey in the Grey Lady. Hats off to you, Michelle Goldberg.
3
Thank you for stating what I've been thinking all asking, but, as a man, had no right to say. To wit:
"Weinstein’s sadistic serial predation isn’t comparable to Louis C.K.’s exhibitionism. The groping Franken has been accused of isn’t in the same moral universe as Moore’s alleged sexual abuse of minors."
6
It often takes hundreds of years for social movements to really succeed and fulfill their purposes. Women still have to fight for equality. After all, they only got the vote in 1919 (the year my mother was born). And in the 60s and 70s started to get college degrees and go into professions as the women’s movement progressed. There are reversals and progress, as we see also with racial equality.
Some men still live in the past, when men were thought to be superior and women were submissive wives and mothers, dependent on men for their support. For some men, even in 2017, seems sexual harassment is the acting out of their wish to dominate, lest they appear ‘weak’. Strange ways the mind works.
Thank you for this piece, Ms Goldberg. Your previous editorial about Senator Franken struck me as an unseemly rush to judgment. "Sex Panic" is a good way to describe the various calls for Sen. Franken to resign. So far, his behavior seems to have been far less than ideal, but it falls far short of being criminal or abusive. Context, nuance and intention matter. In this cultural revolution of increasing awareness about sexual harassment and abuse it's important to spare those guilty of boorishness and bad judgment from being burnt at the stake. It's important not to punish people with ends-justify-means logic for the sake of 'setting an example'. If we criminalize everyone suspected of having performed some flavor of sexual transgression, we're going to be in McCarthyite territory. Innocent people whose sexual behavior doesn't conform to a heteronormative perfectionist ideal - not only patters of rear ends, but those whose tastes are deemed kinky, or those whose desire isn't heteronormative - could well eventually be punished by the idealogues of morality.
3
I think Michelle Goldberg has really redeemed herself with this piece, and I'm relieved--as she approves of Franken's political record, I have appreciated her commentary so far, until the last one, saying Franken should go. Many, many feminists, including myself, wrote comments critiquing her argument for the same reasons she offers here, having re-thought her position. Thank you Michelle for demonstrating, for one thing, how thinking happens. It's not always about spilling your guts on impulse and then defending it to the death even if you know you were wrong--something the right wing will never learn, by the way.
I do quibble with this statement, however:
"It forces feminists to treat our own standards as unrealistic, to undermine our own arguments."
I dont' think so. We can defend our standards and our positions on each individual case as it comes to light based on evidence and evaluations of suffering, threat, harm, danger, child involvement, context, intent, and character history. For example: Al Franken's relationships with women down through time, vs. Roy Moore's. Banned from a shopping mall?
There is alot wrong with the comedy industry in this country, and that is not exactly a separate issue, but it is a complicating one. Americans, men and women alike, demanded, and got, a crude, sometimes hideous, extremely male-dominated and misogynistic comedy culture. Franken left it to work in public issues radio, and then to work in the Senate. Thank goodness.
4
No she has not redeemed herself.
The lie already went around the world.
She ought to spend the next four years apologizing for this disgrace of a week and nothing more.
The concept of proportionality requires that we not treat different actions as if they are the same. This is true of homicides, robberies and assaults, because a wide range of behaviors fall under these broad umbrellas. Shoving a person is not the same as beating someone unconscious with a club although they are both assault. As Ms. Goldberg has realized since publishing her last piece, proportionality also applies to sexual assault and misconduct – while both Harvey Weinstein’s and Al Franken’s actions were wrong, they do not exist in the “ moral universe,” as Ms. Goldberg now admits. Whether Franken should remain in the Senate is a very easy question to answer- of course he should, since political capital punishment is clearly inappropriate for his offences.
5
How to prevent sexual harassment is what we should be talking about? It is called respect and awareness. Respect of women by men and an awareness of how to identify sexual harassment by women. it is women who seem to be the most vulnerable. Men are stronger and much more dominant then women. It is so sad that women are afraid of losing their jobs because they do not want to report a man who sexually harassed them. Women need to be taught to stand up to the men. Men need to respect women. Respect is taught by parents, in schools and at work.
1
This Erin L. piece in Medium pretty much lays out how the alt-right propagandists created this story/scandal. We have to be more diligent, in the news, in social media, and in our comments. We keep going exactly where they want us to go.
https://medium.com/@Erinlank/the-alt-right-propaganda-machine-is-winning...
6
Did they take the photo too?
1
I thought the women had a right to be believed? Didn't Hillary say that?
5
I believe that Tweeden lied about the photo.
1
If finance is just as abusive as publishing, I am not sure how that is at all comforting to Goldberg. Since not a single precinct in all of Manhattan voted red, and not a single state contiguous to Manhattan where they may also live voted red, if we turned over that rock, we would still find mostly wealthy liberal leaning men hiding there.
What are you most likely to find if you did go there? Not much. Why? Most men don't behave this way. The men you admire, rely on, and love are in all likelihood, worthy of it.
Maybe it is time to stop assuming. Franken, Rose, Clinton, Louis CK, Moore, et al. are boors, abusers, and even predators, but they are also outliers.
Can we end the misandry now?
3
The Left needs to decide if it is going to have values and morals or not. It's that simple
2
Seriously? Michelle Goldberg and others actually think Sen. Al Franken should step down over a mock grope and a silly goosing, both examples of a comedian mugging for a photo? Don’t you find it suspicious that the two women pointing fingers are coming forth at the same time that: 1--Senate candidate Roy Moore is accused of real sexual harassment if not assault of under-age girls; 2—Trump supporters are itching to kick one of the most critical questioners off the Judiciary Committee; and last but not at all least, 3—Judiciary Committee Chairman Grassley blows up the 100-year-old tradition of the blue slip? And right after Sen. Franken withheld his blue slip for David Stras, signaling that a home-state senator has grave opposition to a nominee for a lifetime position on the federal court in his district. Senator Franken knows as a justice serving a lifetime appointment for the US Court of Appeals of the Eighth Circuit, Stras would do harm to women’s rights, victim’s rights, LGBT rights, voting rights, and worker protections for generations to come. Is it any wonder those in power are reaching to discredit Sen. Franken in order to eliminate resistance and dissent?
14
This posting represents "whataboutism" at its worst.
There should be no hair-splitting on the question of whether those who hold or aspire to public office touched women sexually without their consent. No degrees of guilt, depending on the perp's political views. All these guys are predators who should either resign or be forced out.
1
The author claims that "progressive" institutions like the media and Hollywood are "more responsive to sexism" than presumably conservative institutions like finance. But even were that true, we talking about sexual abuse and harassment, not sexism. All of the men recently called out in the media and hollywood were for physical sexual conduct, not a mere sexist attitude. When women claim sexual abuse in non-progressive institutions like Fox News, the men are fired.
5
Charlie Rose is immediately suspended for alleged sexual improprieties, while Franken is allowed to remain in the Senate. This shows the double standard Congress allows itself under the "Ethics" investigation. Franked needs to be gone now to preserve what's left of the shreds of integrity in the Senate, to confirm that Roy Moore will not be tolerated in the same body, and to stop distracting us from more important issues.
Real change on this issue demands absolutely no double standard. By the lights of Alabamans, Roy Moore too has done great things.
Have a standard of behavior or don't, but apply either to all.
2
Me Rose has sponsors who decided they did not want to lose money on him. Senator Franken has voters. If they decide they don't want him representing them they will not re-elect him.
5
I don't believe the Ms. Menz who stated Sen. Franken grabbed her behind. I just don't. The picture was taken in a public place (by her husband - if I've got that right), she's smiling, I assume there were many other people nearby who would have witnessed it and he being a senator would have certainly had staff or security also nearby. Last but not least, I can not believe for one second that as Senator, Franken is/was stupid. He's not. As for Ms. Tweeden's revelation, I see bad judgement for the sake of humor gone wrong.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
5
Ms. Goldberg: the first thing you should always do is examine the claim and the claimant before making a judgment based upon that claim. I realize that you are an opinion writer and not a reporter. However, this does not excuse you for hastily expressing an opinion on matters that have been at the least exaggerated about and at the worst lied about. Did you even look at the picture of Senator Franken and Mrs. Menz? Did you reflect on the setting and the people present? Did you consider Roger Stone's tipping off the coming slur of Senator Franken? Did you consider the relationship of Mrs. Tweeden and Hannity? Did you consider the videos of Mrs. Tweeden participating in burlesque and groping fellow performers and soldiers? You must not let yourself be blinded by the emotion of words like "sexual assault" and "molestation."
8
As long as a Democrat is pro abortion it doesn't matter if he sexually harasses
a woman.
What sore of comment is this!
Are you implying that as long as a person is pro choice by extension they are molesters and other criminal?
Is stalking young girls the same as....
The same as a groping prank.....
The aame as contined harassment in the work place.....
What is the behavior does not stop after the woman says no.
Not all these instances are equally bad.
Harassment has been a problem in the workplace for a long time and it needs to end.
1
You have that wrong. The Democrat must be pro-choice, not pro abortion. He lets the woman and her doctor decide on what is best for the woman.
1
There is a difference between shoplifting and serial murder. If Franken was accused of rape and sexual assault by multiple women who were teenagers at the time, I would want him expelled from the senate and hopefully prosecuted for his crimes.
If Moore was guilty of a clumsy pass at an adult on a USO tour, or a photo of him pretending to grope a grown woman, or even grabbing a constituent's butt (in public? outdoors, surrounded by dozens if not hundreds of onlookers?) I would be hard pressed, despite his otherwise reprehensible views on women, Muslims, LGBT, community RACE etc, to say that those "crimes" rise to the level of making him unfit for the senate.
Now that we are perhaps in a watershed moment, we should make sure that we aren't conflating every revelation of sexual transgression into Harvey Weinstein, or Roger Ailes.
Liberals SHOULD hold themselves to a higher standard on this topic, as it is Liberals who champion the rights of women, but we should be careful that in our newfound, long overdue decision to "believe the women" we don't decimatw our ranks of the good, in our pursuit of the perfect.
I don't believe that, based on what we know now, that Franken deserves to be expelled. I do believe that Moore is a child molester and a disgrace to his religion his party and to all decent people.
7
To navigate one's way through the allegations of sexual misconduct, it might be helpful to keep in mind two principles. One is the relatively noncontroversial principle that the punishment should fit the crime. If Roy Moore did something way worse than Al Franken, it is not inconsistent to suggest that Moore should not be seated in the Senate if elected but that Franken, baring more serious sexual misconduct charges, does not have an obligation to step down. The second principle is controversial, but I think many nonreligious people would be inclined to accept it. The principle is this: The reason sexual misconduct, including sexual harassment and sexual assault, is to be condemned is not because it is sexual but because it is harmful. That said, the harm would usual include harm to the sexual aspects of one's life, such as damage to one's ability to enjoy sex with a loving partner. Moore's actions, if the allegations are true, risked severe long-term harm to his victims. Franken's, objectionable though they are, are of the type that seem more likely to cause annoyance. The worst harm suffered, Tweeden's strong negative emotion upon seeing the photo, apparently was in part due to a misinterpretation--that she was actually groped while asleep. Thus, I think, the reluctance to demand that Franken suffer heavy retribution.
2
I remember Ms. Tweedon from years ago, she was quite the publicity hound. The problem for me is that photo of her at a rock concert with her hand firmly grabbing the singer's buttock while he's performing. That's the pot calling the kettle black.
3
How can Franken be your ally when he sexually harasses women?
2
Sorry Michelle... There are NO excuses for non-consensual touching, or any other form of harrasment!!!
3
Al Franken came across as an arrogant opinioned know it all. Maybe he is getting his comeuppance.
1
If you read more as it is revealed, Charlie Rose can not be excused at all.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/eight-women-say-charlie-ro...
He seems to be habitually preying on his young employees who were too scared to report his behavior.
As young interns or trainees, these women look up to their employers as mentors and guides, instead they have to swallow their pride and play along with the predators. Charlie's angels, these young women were called, people knew about him, but they simply went along, tolerated it as though it was normal...until Weinstein.
2
We need to differentiate between a bad date and a sexual predator. Immature behavior is not going away, but that is very different from a person who uses their position and power to force unwanted sex.
4
If you dump all the men who mistreat women (or other men) I don't think you're going to find that you've accidentally run out of politicians. There are always better people available out there.
Americans have a habit of overacting to social problems,often their reforms have a negative results.Prohibition did not work but did result in enabling organize crime to gain power and influence,the war on drugs resulting in many unnecessary imprisonments and now old allegations of improper behavior destroying reputations and careers.
3
Americans like witch hunts. Which is what this is turning into.
4
DISCARDING people because of ANY imperfections would mean we ALL should be discarded. That's DUMB.
Wrong behavior must not occur but it does. We learn from our mistakes so give folks a chance and IF they relapse THEN fire them.
I asked my WIFE whether anyone harassed her. She was surprised to here the question having been subject to it repeatedly even as a child and certainly as an adult before I knew her. I expected she would say that she slapped the harassers and was very surprised to find she never did. LADIES - please react to these harassers on a level that is proportionate to the infraction!
There’s a supposition that sexual harassment, though tasteless and gross, isn’t really that bad if it isn’t violent and it's not done to kids. So let’s show disapproval, but still tolerate the men who do it. They're really not so bad.
But in tolerating milder types of harassment we are setting a norm, and then it will continue, and get worse. Some warped personalities might even be proud and bask in their notoriety. And there will be copy cats. Men and their defenders will find excuses and rationalization. And women will keep having to fight being abused, and disrespected.
The sex harrassment we're seeing, in varying degrees, is still a deliberate insult by someone aiming to dominate and humiliate others, so they look powerful. Not fun and games.
Let's not excuse this with "relative values. Same with politics. Trump is abusing America. Some defend him no matter what. Some say as long as we elect people not as bad as Trump---that’s enough. A downward spiral.
We have to hold on to our objectivity and standards---in both sex abuse cases and in our politics.
2
I have worked in both finance and media. There is more sexual predation in media, much more.
4
You articulate the problems well. For me it's a kind of calculation involving various factors: the nature of the offense (you're so right that some are much more serious than others, although I didn't find the analysis of the Franken photo to be Jesuitical), whether there's a pattern of offenses, the likelihood of repetition of the offense, the response of the offender when called on his offense, the benefits to victims and to society and the cost to the offender of the offense becoming public knowledge.
By my calculation, Trump's is a far more serious case and one much more deserving of removal from office than Franken's.
More men are going to be accused on both sides of the political spectrum. It is going to be uncomfortable. It is going to be painful. A zero tolerance policy is the easiest way out when having a conversation is difficult or uncomfortable. It shuts down the conversation before it begins and will ultimately hurt both accusers and the accused.
If Rush Limbaugh (whose politics are not mine) had once been on a comedy road tour from which a variety of snapshots had circulated showing various entertainers playing fast and loose with ordinary rules of civility and privacy, I don't think I would be screaming for his ouster on account of the snapshot HE was in.
2
Al Franken, apart from being an effective legislator is a comedian who is pretty good at pulling off a practical joke. By definition the brunt of the joke suffers a small humiliation at the expense of getting a laugh from the bystanders who appreciate the silliness of what just occurred. In a perfect world the person who is the brunt of the joke, after realizing the what has happened will actually get a kick out of it (provided no actual harm was done) and plot a harmless revenge. That's how this kind of humor works. Al Franken is a comedian, he is not an abuser or a lech!
10
I keep thinking to myself that if a woman celebrity that I respected called me into her dressing room and asked if I would mind if she masturbated in front of me... that it would probably be the single greatest day of my life. I can’t think of many cis males who would think differently.
I am not saying this to be crude.
I keep hearing from the left that “gender is fluid” and to a certain extent this is something I agree with. But I do think that a look at how sexuality develops within the genders might explain a lot of what is wrong with sexual harrasment.
And frankly while I think men have to change — become better, stronger, more sure of themselves — to stop or at least lessen harassment. I think women need to change too. Whether that is a matter of de commodifying themselves or simply learning how to say “Louis CK pull up your pants, I don’t need to see your junk right now”. Or simply just recognising that a lot of this behaviour is probably psychological — and that you don’t blame someone for being sick, you just make sure they get to doctor.
3
I had a friend with a pretty sarcastic sense of humor. Her recommended response to a situation like you describe, with someone who had a sudden urge to expose himself was, "is that all there is." Said with an eye roll and over her shoulder as you walk away.
1
We’ve got a monster in the White House, one who's intent on imposing a fascist regime on this country, with help from the Koch Brothers and Vladimir Putin. The ending of net neutrality is the latest example; it will surely be used to muzzle critics such as CNN.
With this much at stake, we simply cannot afford the agonized self-reflection on display in this column. It borders on hysteria, and it's a distraction. Crude behavior of 20 years ago? Yes, it needs to be addressed. Yes, we need a national conversation about it.
But taking back the House, and possibly the Senate, need to be our all-consuming priorities for the coming year. If we don’t focus like a laser on these goals, if we let hysteria and moral absolutism cloud our thinking, drain our energies, and hobble our ability to plan and act, we shall surely lose, and it will be game over for democracy. The monsters will rule, and they will rule absolutely.
Anyone who thinks that will be good for women, please raise your hands.
4
I've greatly admired Michelle Goldberg's writings over the years for her ability to hold to her progressive values while simultaneously looking at the complexities of life, which don't boil down to all good versus all bad. I was disappointed in her first article about Franken, where his clownish, disrespectful mugging for the camera while having his hands hovering over Ms. Tweeden's flak jacket in front of other passengers while she remained asleep and undisturbed- if this is groping, it is the worst attempt at it I've ever heard of)- was put in the same basket as serious molestation and child sexual abuse.
Welcome back to the world of nuanced progress insightfulness.
4
Hmmmm. Mike Pence, who won’t be alone with any woman other than his wife, is conspicuously silent about all of this. What’s up with that? After all, he’s not just the VP, he’s a voter in the Senate....
2
Mike Pence has nothing to prove. His loyalty and fidelity to his wife, as far as we know, is beyond reproach. There is no need for him to say anything. I think we all know where he stands on these issues. Additionally, it is ironic that the same progressive movement that mocks Pence for his strict marital fidelity is also the same one currently plagued by allegations of behaviors that stem from an ideology of sexual promiscuity. Maybe Pence and his wife know the secret to clean, happy living. Maybe the progressive elite in Hollywood and elsewhere could take a lesson from the impeccable virtue of a man they so despise.
2
“An article on 11/20/17 on NPR ATC reported on an art exhibition of work by current and former Guantanamo Bay detainees now on display at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in Manhattan. The article and review were thoughtful, open-minded and well considered. If we can embrace the artwork of terrorists and mass murderers, why then are we being asked to turn our backs on the creative genius of a mere exhibitionist like Louis C K or censoring the humorous remarks at the Mark Twain Awards of a former comedian who made a bone-headed mistake like Al Franken?”
1
And why can't we read John Halperin's book on the 2016 election?
Two observations.
First, our society cannot reform itself by focusing upon retribution for wrongs done by many, many generations of people long dead as well as the living who have transgressed, which is what it going on. The remedies must be appropriate to the improper behavior as it must be addressed into the future.
Second, efforts to drive poor and criminal behavior away with extremely harsh punishments and no-tolerance jurisprudence have proved to end up having the societies in which they are tried rejected as socially destructive because they really are manifestly unfair. The law must address the crimes in a manner which is clearly fair and impartial.
The core reality of mistreatment of women with sexual assaults and mistreatments are rooted in the cultural tradition of female passive roles in society that is betrayed by unscrupulous men, and especially men in power. This sets up a passive aggressive dynamic where by the victim develops so much rage that the retaliation is far more destructive than the wrongful treatment, because it serves a rage that grew in the victim for a long time before it was addressed. The ability of victims to speak up is necessary to address the problem but the reaction to the acts must fit the egregiousness of the acts, not the egregiousness of having allowed them to go on without any remedy for the victims.
The baby with the bath water.
You are right to have had second thoughts, as I feel you are also righteous in your "strike while the iron is hot" instincts; but the witch hunt at hand should be taken with as much pause for thought as the victims (no quotes) took to bring these moral transgressions to light. Take a deep breath everyone and put out the matches, but keep our eyes on the prize. Real equality and nothing short thereof.
A male of our species.
2
Much of the readers fuss about the photograph of Mr Franken appearing to grope Ms Tweeden, rather than the action that was not photographed.
The majority of the readers, particularly those defending Mr Franken, miss the serious aspect of his behavior.
The readers gravitate to this alleged grope. But one can see that Mr Franken's hands were above, and not touching, Ms Tweeden. He was harmlessly mugging for the camera.
But Ms Tweeden also alleges that during the same entertainment tour, Mr Franken insisted on rehearsing kissing during a skit that he had written. She protested, stating no need to rehearse kissing. But he insisted. Finally, she relented, followed by his grabbing the back of her head, forcing himself into her mouth. He invaded her private space without her consent, forcibly. She felt violated, understandably.
He thought this would be funny, she did not. He forced himself on her in a disgusting manner. It seems Mr Franken attempted to gratify a primal urge with a comely young woman who was not in a romantic relationship with him. He did not deny this action.
Why cannot the readers understand this and why do they forgive Mr Franken? I admire much of Mr Franken's legislation and thought he was hilarious on SNL, but the late Paul Wellstone, his senatorial predecessor, would not have pulled off this horrible and degrading stunt.
Hello?
Ms. Tweeden and Franken remember the incident differently and you cannot prove either of them right or wrong.
Because there is footage on the same tour of Tweeden groping and grinding with men. The fact that she was engaging in this behavior willingly weakens her claims. It makes it appear that in the context of the USO tour such behavior was commonplace and accepted by her and others.
The most depressing thing about this whole incident is the shocking number of people who instantly and reflexively started shaming and blaming the victim, spouting slurs you might hear in a 1950s B movie: "She sold sex for a living," "she posed nude," etc., proving indeed that "it's a strange political fiction that anyone can really separate partisanship from principle." You can't say you care about women and then viciously attack them when it's politically expedient.
1
Thanks for this thoughtful piece. One of the best. I understand the anger and confusion about the recent swirl of events.
But I do think we need to keep our heads clear so that sexual violence isn't trivialized and women's agency is compromised by painting them with a broad stroke of victimization.
Media also needs to held accountable when opting for sensationalism and quick hits over the hard work of examining sexual violence.
I hope that recent revelations promote awareness and discussion and not self-righteous, or politically motivated, retribution.
1
Pushing this logic to the extreme, Mike Pence is the only politician that woman could trust--but then he doesn't go anywhere (including to lunch with another woman) without his wife present!
1
Would it not be appropriate to look at all the video tapes of that USO tour to see the behavior of Leeann Tweeden, Franken's accuser? They show her grabbing and kissing soldiers while scantily dressed, grabbing, kissing and throwing her leg around the waist of Robin Williams, twerking ad grinding against another male. And she is stressed by Franken's behavior? It is also important to note that she has signed a contract to write a book with Sinclair, the conservative TV and publishing business. So is this part of her advance publicity? Will she be naming other Democrats from her past while proclaiming her innocence?
3
I was much more than groped, at the age of 14. Should I ruin that women's life? Or would the media even care.
2
Of course we cannot compare Franken to Trump. Innocent people don't admit they're guilty.
1
There is a unique level of contempt for women's rights and dignity for someone who sexually harasses someone in front of a camera. As we see yet again today, with photos of Mr. Franken grabbing Arianna Huffington on her bottom and breasts. The idea that this is "funny" or merely being "imperfect" is really a disgrace. Such contempt is towards the dignity of sexually grabbing and groping another person's body is no different than someone punching another person. We would consider that a crime too.
2
Thank you Ms. Goldberg for this very thoughtful, if not breathtaking assessment of the Senator Franken situation. Unfortunately, this is also a great window into the toxic state of politics in 2017. Now, despite being told for years that there was no excuse for sexual assault, despite the fact that I would lose my job in a heartbeat with these allegations (much less the photo), you make it clear that there are two tiers of male citizen. Connected, Democrat men who are apparently entitled to grope females, and well, literally everyone else. Because, you see, the liberal men are the "good guys", and the "everyone else" have been played for fools for the last two decades thinking this stuff was terrible. Do you really believe now, that you can even comment credibly on Trump's supposed harassment? How about Roy Moore? Sorry, nope. the moral high ground is hard to claim, and unless Franken steps down quick, you've lost it.
We need all the momentum we can get to oppose the tax bill which is the worst
law ever written hammered out by one party with much malice in the dark of night. Forget about sexual impropriety until this war hit a soft spot.
Thank you for admitting that you over-reacted. One cannot conflate juvenile foolish behaviour with serious abuse of power.
1
Here is a question for all: Do we find the best leader in the most morally pure among us?
Al Franken has his flaws, but he has proven to be a pretty good senator. Do you believe you will get a more skillful senator in a supposedly more flawless person? Was McClellan better than Grant? After all, Grant was a drunk, McClellan an upstanding officer of impeccable background.
Fixing sexual harassment is a laudable goal. Is it the top priority? More important then the environment, more important than a potential nuclear war, more important than our democracy? It is not easy to find effective senators in our popularity contests we call elections.
1
Ridiculous. There's plenty of worthy successors to the causes you believe in. This attitude contributes to a culture that looks the other way and leaves the brokenness calcifying in place. Real, lasting change is rare. Let's not lose this shot.
We need a Bechdel test for politicians.
Does Ms. Goldberg still believe Juanita, too?
Juanita said she was and wasn't raped. Hard not to believe one of those.
2
I'm laughing for the rest of the week because of your great comment, Fran Soyer.
Come on Liberals, don't buckle! This is our chance as a society to fix what's broke, and foster real change in how men behave. This is our shot to finally get politics out of the mix, and treat all predators as they should be treated.. no special favors because he happens to be on your team. Give that impulse the old heave-ho it deserves! Yes, your side may take a casualty or two, but it will balance itself out over time. Trump will get his, sooner or later.
Society had a shot to fix this 20 years ago, and then Clinton came along and the workplace was set back due to the mixed messages sent by the damaging feminist non-response; set way, way back.
Let's not lose another another generation because you're afraid.
1
As soon as the Weinstein scandal broke, Breitbart raced to put up its Hollywood Rape Culture Live Wire. The dragnet is expanding to catch the prominent Democrats (just a few minutes ago, it was Conyers) that Hollywood has always cozied up to. I'm sure that Breitbart and its readers are grateful to Michelle Goldberg for her stellar - but apparently, not very carefully considered - contributions to the cause.
2
Dear Ms. Goldberg,
I almost cancelled my subscription due to your previous unfair article about Senator Al Franken. Unlike many of the other individuals recently accused of sexual harassment - he immediately issued two thorough apologies and this incident occurred before he became a Senator. Also, when you wrote that article, were you aware of Ms. Tweeden's conservative/right-wing connections ? How could you so unfairly condemn a good man who is one of the few Democratic Senators consistently calling out Trump's lackeys on their constant lies. This new article is barely an apology that I believe you owe to Senator Franken.
5
Are you suggesting that conservative women are acceptable targets for creeps and sophomoric behavior? If a stare or a glance, a comment or a thought, a brush or a grab makes any woman uncomfortable, be it the intended target, a bystander or woman who learns of the act at a later time, then the act is absolutely wrong. There's no defense. The passage of time doesn't lessen the disgust. The woman's morals, manner of dress, alcohol consumption, past sexual history, income level, educational achievement, and political affiliation matter not.
3
"As a result, it sometimes feels as if liberal institutions are devouring themselves over sex while conservatives, unburdened by the pretense of caring about gender equality, blithely continue their misrule"
There's a saying around the golf course, "Never let your opponent club you", which means, "Don't accept advice on how to conduct your game [selection of which golf club to use for the upcoming shot] from an opponent".
Let's hypothesize a bit: Look more deeply into the background of the Texas woman (accuser #2) and you will find Red State. Look into Leeann Tweeden's situation and you will find Roger Stone's fingerprints- a staged remembrance. That doesn't mean these people aren't entitled to respect from males, but it does raise a red flag that "perhaps they doth protest too much". Is their outrage ("...every time I think of it my fists clench in anger...") personal or merely partisan? Are these people really injured, or just playing 'Gotcha!'?
So, it seems best to ignore advice from the conservative side on how to proceed. Ms. Goldberg's statement above indicates she has given more mature consideration to the question, and still more is in order. Conservatives are weaponizing legitimate female concern over sexual impropriety and using it to further their own agenda, ironically enough, the preservation of their system of white male dominance and suppression of competing systems of societal organization.
Bottom line, Al Franken stays put.
5
What nonsense! The women's rights movement should not depend on men who harass women and get away with it because they hold liberal pro-women political views. Men like Al Franken should be replaced, and hopefully replaced by women. And the women who protect these misbehaving men (like the aid who protected Charlie Rose, or like Hillary Clinton protecting her husband) should be called to account.
If liberals are not held to the high standard that we proclaim then we will be made out as hypocrites. Al Franken must resign. Roy Moore should get thrown out of the Senate. And we need to raise the bar for everyone. AND - we need more good, honest, progressive independent-minded women to fun for office.
No more free passes just because a jerk is also politically liberal!
6
The videos that have surfaced of Tweeden groping and grinding with men on the USO tour weaken her claims, though. Certainly they leave the impression that Franken's behavior was acceptable in that context, since Tweeden herself was engaging in such behavior.
As a women who has been harassed by several bosses, as well as groped on the street by a random stranger, it makes me angry that the press is still playing along with Tweeden. Her actions weaken the claims of women who are genuinely harassed and assaulted.
Yes, #believethewomen. But also research your stories carefully.
11
There are now on the internet several videos of Franken's accuser sexually abusing, kissing, and flirting with Robin Williams, an unknown soldier, and even Senator Franken 3 years after the incident. Is this a double standard?
She has also accepted his apology. The photographer who just released the photo either thought is was funny or incriminating.
The second woman said she was posing with the Senator in a public place for her husband to take the photo, but there was no complaint then and some one else could have done the patting.
Both episodes sound exaggerated. I think Franken is telling the truth more than the 2 women.
3
I do not make these comments lightly. Having sat on a grand jury panel in the late 90's, I cried every day just being witness to sexual assault crimes committed against children.
This attempt to supposedly have a clean sweep of sexual transgressions, by men, is misguided. It will result in false equivalencies and some good people will be hurt. In some instances, it is already minimizing true sexual harassment and assault. It will confuse a generation of young women as to how to set and communicate boundaries and young men how to communicate and interact with women. The delicate balance of behavior of men and women is very complex and cannot be rectified in one mass 'cleansing'.
It starts with raising young women to feel confident about imposing their own boundaries regarding sexual behavior and having no nonsense consequences for lawbreakers.
Conversely, men and women should not have to fear one another. Victims should not have to fear exposure and men should not have to fear their relationships with women. I heard a friend who is a grandfather say he is afraid to be left alone with his granddaughters in today's environment. How sad! Sometimes our pendulum of societal norms swings to far one way or the other.
22
Yes, it would be tragic to lose a man like Al Franken from the Senate. But this is also an opportunity for Democrats to show that they do stand up for the morality so loudly trumpeted, but not respected, by Republicans. For once, Democrats, stop making excuses and moral relativity arguments and stand up for principle.
3
Even though I like his politics, I prefer that the U.S. Senate investigate Mr. Franken and throw him out. That will create a better precedent than if he resigns. I suspect that other members of the Senate have done similar deeds, or worse, and they should be thrown out too regardless of which party they belong to. My fear is that if Mr. Franken resigns, a Republican facing similar charges will hang on to his seat despite the tongue-lashing he receives from his colleagues and the press.
1
I am disheartened that some progressive women feel conflicted about calling out sexual assault/harassment committed by men who share their political views. Whether women are fully respected as human beings, fully equal to men in both public and private settings, should be an issue that transcends politics in the short term. Liberals and conservatives both need to extricate themselves from their partisan echo chambers and rid themselves of sexual predators, without splitting hairs about "all transgressions are not equal," or saying "what about" predators on the other side of the ideological fence. There are plenty of qualified Republicans and Democrats (many of them, hopefully, female) to replace the bad apples. We can continue to debate political issues without giving sexual predators a pass.
4
Why can't we get to the point where we apply the same principle to sexual misconduct as we do with drugs and weapons in schools. Zero Tolerance. Let's teach all of the young men and women that Zero Tolerance, regardless of who you are is the New Normal.
2
The war on drugs is an epic failure that ruined lives and didn't stop drug use.
That's why.
1
With a second accuser with a complaint about the man when he was a Senator, there must be an investigation and serious consequences if confirmed. But the current demands to ostracize any who have acted inappropriately has become an emotionally driven demand for thousands of years of such behaviors and no longer serves any purpose but to satisfy outrage.
There is a clear line of delineation, but it sounds like Michelle only wants to use it for Republicans. Isn’t this how harassment continues?
5
While most of us are transfixed by the ongoing revelations, I suspect that men and (most) women are processing them differently. Speaking as one of the former, I am always disconcerted to read about people I’ve admired behaving badly. But I also recognize some of what Bret Stephens, in a different context, has described as titillated outrage – only in my case there’s less outrage than disillusion. Outrage is what I feel when I think of what Donald Trump and his sleazy entourage have done to the institution of the presidency. Although I sympathize with women who’ve been hurt by sexual predators and want to see outright criminality (of the Weinstein/Moore variety) punished, I fear the current urge to purge will harm us all in the long run. We are none of us perfect, and making an example of politicians and celebrities won’t eliminate bad behavior in the workplace, much less tame wayward sexuality. The value of the current discussion around sexual predators is that it may make us more attentive to the ways in which we -- men and women alike -- routinely violate one another’s boundaries, physical and otherwise.
1
What Clarence Thomas is alleged to have done in the 1980s was even more mild than what Franken did. Clarence Thomas told off color jokes, and was not accused of inappropriate touching, groping, exhibitionism or copping a feel. But it does demonstrate the hypocrisy of people like Ms. Goldberg. If she thinks she can give passes to her allies while going after people with whom she disagrees for the same or similar conduct, she is incredibly short-sighted.
5
OK,Michelle Democrat Apologist Goldberg...You have video evidence of Franken's transgressions, from grown women, in recent years, yet you choose to somehow equate them with the unfounded (and, in one case, a purely fictitious lie by a then 16 year old decades ago) and unproven attacks on your enemies (Moore,Trump),as opposed to your darling Franken.You even say that the Moore and Trump allegations are things they are simply "accused of."
Franken a decent man? He cheated in his first election to the US Senate by "finding"a few hundred ballots a couple of weeks after the election. He should not be a Senator. I was present for one of the confirmation hearings in January where he nastily interrogated the Cabinet candidate.
You then show your Trump Derangement Syndrome by slandering with "morally worthless men like Trump."
The media's desire to be fair indeed? Not the NY Times nor the WaPo, both of which function as 527s for Democrats. Hillary email "distortions?" No, just coverage of the discovery of what they truly said, the revelation that she played unfairly against Bernie, and cheated by accepting debate questions in advance.
Feminists know they can't expect accountability from Republicans.Know? How so? That is just their claim, and many would call it blatantly false. But you have thus identified feminists as Democrats.
And Harding thinks it's OK to keep abusers in office if they are going to vote for "women's rights." I give you Bill Clinton, benefactor of this thought.
3
The senator made a mistake! His humor has always tended to be on the edge and this time it went over the line. Probably no premeditation involved...a situation developed and rather than pass, the moment won out and he did something stupid. There but for the grace of Whomever...would be almost as big a mistake to put Frankin, Moore and Trump in the same category. To separate the merely stupid from the really dangerous, perhaps it's time to identify degrees of sexual misbehavior. First degree, second degree could be altered to grab, grope, pinch, squeeze, ogle, etc. To arrive at just punishment multiply the offense times the number of victims and go from there. Senator, we expected better. But, unlike the other two mentioned here, you obviously have learned from the experience and hopefully you'll emerge a better man because of it...we'll be watching!
1
It is impossible, without a court trial, to know the truth of every sexual accusation made against a powerful man especially when politics are concerned or wealth and possible celebrity. However, Al Franken has written pornographic, supposedly comedic musings, and the photograph of him cupping Leeann's breasts while she slept (touching her or not is moot) is creepy. He is a product of the 70's, a time when many social mores were being overthrown . But he is not a good public servant. In light of Bill Clinton,(is the Lolita express for real?) and his seemingly insatiable sexual appetites, that were excused by the Democrats up until Hillary's defeat last year, can we not say that women have been objectified and demeaned by the progressive left more than any supposed support of women's rights by leftists has helped us?What are women's rights? The right to abort an accidental or inconvenient pregnancy ? There is a loss to us all when we lose (as a society) our respect for life.The right to make more money? I thought that had to do with ability?The right to sleep around without being shamed? What good progressive pol wouldn't support that? The fact is dems say one thing and act another way. I am tired of every article about a democrat turned perv to mention Roy Moore or Trump. I do not know or like Roy Moore, but he also was a product of the south, where Elvis dated a 14 year old Pricilla and some judge let Jerry Lee Lewis marry his 13 year old cousin.
1
Forget about whether we're talking about a Republican or a Democrat, or about that person's known political views. Just ask yourself, knowing about this person's sexual behavior, would I vote for him over someone with similar views who hasn't committed sexual assault or harassment? Treating women with respect is more important than the politics of the moment.
1
While some individuals continue to support Moore, the party and its leadership has actually pulled all financial backing and stated it would seek to not seat him. The opposite of the party reaction to Franken (and Conyers and Menendez)...there are individuals that have called for him to leave, but the party has circled the wagons.
Make no mistake, Trump got elected on the rules Democrats established for Clinton, and against the one candidate who could not credibly argue that the rules were in need of change.
1
“And it was thought that if she had feigned her confession, she could not have remembered her answers so exactly.” (an observer, speaking of the testimony of Tituba, in court, Salem, MA, 1692).
1
Any change in our national moral direction stops from the top, meaning in the Oval Office.
Harry Truman didn't say "the buck stops with the Senator from Minnesota".
Investigate Tic Tacs and set the bar. Then we can judge the rest of America.
And if that means Roy Moore gets a freebie for the meantime, sorry but it has to be that way. I'm sure his time will arrive.
Are you really saying that any and all sexual predators in high elected office should be given a pass until Trump gets his?
1
Why yes, yes I am.
Really.
Why should he get a free pass ? He signed up to be the moral compass of our nation. Let him lead for a change.
Of course violent crimes are a different story.
2
Just makes sad. I don't believe in degrees of sexual misconduct. Senator Franken made a poor choice that will most likely ruin his career in the Senate. I like the Senator. But having been a victim of degrees of sexual harassment, especially in the entertainment industry as a writer/producer, I can't abide this behavior. In a perfect world I would like ro give Franken a pass, maybe a censure, because he is the least offensive of this latest onslaught of women taking powerful men down. Hard to take Franken out with an admitted groper and sexual predator as President.
3
Al Franken should apologize for the photo by posting a picture of himself holding a sign that says “Sorry about the picture, LeeAnn” and standing next to photos of her 1994 Hooters calendar picture and one of her Hannity show appearances.
1
My reaction to your initial column was unique for me, I felt a chill down my spine and for the first time in my life (as a white liberal guy) I sensed a fear that men might be subjected to the whimsy of a more powerful force...And, at a gut level, I couldn't accept it...I thought that we men might/should dig in our heels and maintain the status quo...Your demand that Franken step down seemed a bridge too far...NOW it seems you've felt some remorse and backtracked to a more measure response...Is my hitherto unrecognized privilege reestablished? You're an interesting provocateur...Thanks
1
An angle related to this issue that hasn't been discussed much, if at all, is those women and men who succumbed to the sexual advances of these powerful employers, supervisors, bosses or whatever - and you know there are many. Are they now in positions for which they are unfit and/or unqualified for because of their weakness or complacency. All of us have, probably more than a few times in the last several years, encountered someone in the course of everyday business in private and public sectors that seemed over their head and just plain unqualified in their job. Nepotism, racism, ethnicity and now sexism...if you're straight up, smart, do the right thing and follow the rules your chances are diminishing. Is this America - land of opportunity...if you work hard to get there?
1
Some of the other details about the State Fair incident are that the husband (Red Blooded Texas Republican) when told about the incident by his wife immediately after, he did nothing. Any red blooded man I know would at least have had a frank discussion with him, many others would have spoke with their fists. They certainly wouldn't have waited six years to finally say something. Considering they are both supporters and voters for the orange one, this doesn't pass the smell test. Of course when speaking about Republicans these days, what does pass the smell test.
1
Let's make it easy for people who (suddenly) think that harassment is a smooth sliding scale: it isn't.
On one side there is boorish behavior, hostile work environment, abusive behavior toward subordinates (or co-workers), with increasing seriousness. Then there is a threshold, which many men guilty of the former transgressions never cross: physical contact.
It is true that extreme abuse can be "worse" than a pat on the posterior, but unwanted physical contact is sui generis - it invades another person’s space and therefore is close to, or is, assault.
In my experience, you have to be a slightly different kind of person, almost with a gene missing, to allow yourself to touch uninvited (kiss, grab, force, rape, etc.), even if you are drunk. That kind of behavior has no excuse.
I leave it to the reader to determine on which side of this threshold, and how far, the many so-far accused reside.
3
Republicans have another advantage over their Liberal counterparts. Many of their supporters are deeply religious and within that culture is an expectation that women submissively defer to men, especially men in authority even if the men are debauched. So, it appears that the sexual improprieties of liberal men are more likely to be made public.
Entertaining to see how those like Michelle Goldberg engage in pretzel-like reasoning (?) to avoid confronting the consequences of their own principles (?).
Jasper
3
"That photo — the unconscious woman, the leering grin — is a weight Democrats shouldn’t have to carry, given that they’ve lately been insisting that it’s disqualifying for a candidate to grab a woman sexually against her will. "
Of course it is a burden that Democrats do have to carry ... unless they
stop attacking Republicans for the same things.
They also have their apologists in the press (e.g. Charlie Rose and
those NYT and PBS persons) caught with (literally) their pants down.
There is only one correct solution to all this: let bygones be bygones
to all, independent of politics. Including Trump and Moore.
Once again, The New York Times is more concerned with protecting Democrats than they are protecting women. Every time someone in the media tries to justify keeping an admitted abuser in position, they empower all the other would-be abusers to launch more assaults, knowing that as long as they hold politically popular opinions, they'll be defended.
5
There is something sick about a man in his thirties pursuing teenagers for social interests. The right is going after every lefty they can find who has a taint of impropriety right now. Nothing they come up with has the same perverseness as Roy Moor's befriending and using teenage girls.
1
I suspect, unless some information is found that invalidates Ms. Metz's account, that Senator Frankenstein will have an uphill battle in the Senate Ethics Committee. Franken has been an able Senator, and I am sorry that his own behavior has put his career at risk.
As to Ms. Goldberg's second thoughts: I understand the moral conflict she's experiencing, and it is honest for her to explore it in her column. I am sure that millions of Americans are feeling the same way as they observe the Franken and Moore episodes.
Had I been Ms. Goldberg, I would not have written the first column. My reasoning: a single offense of this type might not warrant resignation. A pattern of offenses definitely would. I would have wanted more certainty about Senator Franken's conduct before publishing a call for him to resign.
2
Our justice system offers options. We do not execute people for shoplifting. Jail sentences and fines differ in severity according to the offense. It's not binary. Sure, unwanted butt-patting should stop, but it is very different from molesting children. Perhaps a Senate censure would suffice for the beloved Senator Franken. Resignation would not only deprive us of his admirable service, but would be a punishment way out of proportion to the "crime."
4
The massive overreach by women like Ms Goldberg who immediately called for Franken's head will have a chilling effect that will not be helpful to the cause of gender equality. She says she doesn't want to be part of a "sex panic" but she's the one leading the charge. This is why women are sometimes called hysterical. Men don't even want to look at the women in the office, they don't want to tell a joke in front of them. It's sad and it disadvantages women when men don't feel safe discussing anything beyond the dry details of business with women in the room. Al Franken did nothing wrong. He patted someone on the butt? He goofed around during his time at the USO? Really? It's absurd to put him anywhere near any of the other accused. Get a grip on reality. There's a large portion of a large religion who feel that women should be covered from head to foot. Let that sink in. We have chosen to be more open and free. Relations between the sexes are messy. So we do our best, but we expect some messiness. We do not castigate good people like Al Franken, or if we do, we do so at our own peril.
4
Too late, you're already a hypocrite.
6
Thanks JMM. Yes, by what logic does the NYT demand Franken resign, and not Donald Trump?
3
This is what Michelle Goldberg will be known for, and Bigly! . ..."leering grin"? Oh my. The sex intent is debatable, at least in NYT comments and on social media. M. Goldberg may not get a Pulitzer for this, but she is on a Maureen Dowd path and Ms Dowd's tragic fixation on that 'nasty woman': Hillary Clinton.
2
The part I'm having a hard time with Leeann's claims about Franken because she's seen in USO youtube videos humping Robin Williams on stage where she hugs him and wraps her leg around at body.
She's in another video with a band on stage and she runs up to the front of the stage, bends over to rub her behind back and forth against the thigh of the singer and so, he then grabs her behind with his hand and she doesn't freak out...because she grabs his behind in return.
The band's singer happens to be very good looking and Robin Williams was a Hollywood beloved actor and comedian.
It's ok for her to do sexually provocative moves on men but if someone like Franken kisses her too hard, she's insulted.
Those USO male performers should be warned to not touch her because you just never know which performer she's allowing to get friendly with her in skits and which performer she'll accuse of inappropriate behavior.
As far as the picture goes....clearly, Franken was out of line and taking a joke too far but I wonder if Robin Williams had pulled the same prank on her, would she be as angry?
14
The issue isn't whether Franken is a good guy. It's whether what he did is deserving of punishment, and of so, what kind. It also has nothing to do with whether he's a figure of the left or the right. Exactly the same rules must apply to both ides, or else women's rights simply become another partisan cudgel.
I thought after Franken's initial accusation that he was only behaving badly. He kissed a woman too hard, in what was obviously a botched pass, and then he pretended to grope her. That's not predation: it's just dumb male behaviour.
This touching a woman on the butt is the same. It's just dumb male behaviour. If we started sacking people for inappropriately touching each other on the butt then we need not only to be looking at both sides of politics, but both genders.
Whether Franken deserves to be sacked for being dumb is a question worth asking, but a pattern of predation it's not. Remember, the problem here is rape, and how to protect women from it.
2
While the democrats wring their hands in righteous torment, the far right that controls the republican party stands by their molester of teen girls.
What is wrong with this country that we cannot different between a touchy feely jerk (Franken) who has apologized and a total pervert (Moore) who trolled for teen girls and molested two of them. Charlie Rose is another pervert who thought women had to be exposed to his lacking charms.
As women, we all know who the jerks are and who the perverts are, we should act accordingly and treat them as they deserve. If we insist in a blanket condemnation, we are doomed to fail miserably.
3
The credibility of the accusations against Franken is not clear at all. That the misdeeds, if real, a very big if, are small is not to be lost sight of... (Ms Menz's account is at least as ambiguous as a duck-rabbit. Ms Tweeden works for outfits which lie more professionally and regularly than the NYPD. The picture looks to this viewer like mockery of male jerkhood. {DJT's sick porn interpretation of it --picture 2, 3,4-- was another of his confessions that he dares us to notice, like his loving description of the mutilation of beautiful girls, during which his arousal was barely contained})
This is not double standard. The odious Charlie Rose should never (dis)grace a TV screen again, William Jefferson Clinton deserves the savagest punishment that can be meted out. Love to hear your thoughts on what that ought to be.
2
I thought women had the right to be believed. Wasn't that one of Hillary's core principles, at least when one of her husband's victims was not the accuser?
3
I just do not get how this latest reveal for Franken played out.
Really he would grab this woman's butt when her husband
was taking the photo? I mean wouldn't he think she
might yell and the husband would punch him? Or at
least she would move away and say " Stop it"
I know, I know he was in a position of power and
I have been in situations where I was in such shock
about some guy grabbing me inappropriately that
I said nothing. So that is certainly understandable,
It is just hard to think of Franken taking the chance,
he is so careful and methodical and practical.
As far as the Republicans go, they are mad dogs
and if it were their own daughters or wives abused
by fellow Republicans they would just deny and deny,
and thank the more powerful perpetrator for gracing
their family. If Franken did this then for sure there will
be others coming forward. It breaks my heart. But
I still think he deserves a fair hearing before he
is forced to leave office
3
This column reminds me 1998 all over again. That bending over backwards rationalization!
5
I guess I should be gratified that Ms. Goldberg is having second thoughts, but the damage is done, and she can take some responsibility for it. Sen. Franken, a man who has for many years tirelessly fought the good fight against right-wing hypocrisy, has a single woman come forward to complain about an over aggressive kiss during a rehersal, and present a photograph of Mr. Franken clearly pretending to be on the verge of groping her breasts, and Ms. Goldberg is immediately ready to cast him in the same light as Roy Moore, and calls for his resignation.
Now a second woman has come forward with a claim that Franken grabbed her butt while their photo was being taken. Maybe that did happen; I don't know. Nor do I know what happened at the rehearsal with Ms. Tweeden. But I do know that all the women on Sen. Franken's staff have written a letter of support for him saying that they have always felt respected and heard while working in his office. And I also know that Ms. Tweeden, a woman who calls herself a "fiscal conservative" and has appeared several times on the Fox show Hannity. So was her complaint about Sen. Franken a political hit job? I'm suspicious. Maybe the Senate investigation into the matter will help us understand. But I wish that Ms. Goldberg would have hesitated just a bit before throwing Al Franken under the bus in an effort to demonstrate her ideological purity.
2
I agree with Senator Franken on just about everything related to policy. But, if we're going to hold the moral high ground, and the Senator can be replaced by a well-qualified Democrat, especially a woman, then so be it. Get it over with. Set an example that will make the GOPhers look worse and worse over time. And, apparently, it's okay that Poppy Bush has been grabbing women's butts for a long time. He was getting the "old man" defense, but it looks like he's done this stuff for a lot longer. And, as much as I agree with Senator Franken, how many other women are about to come forward? I suppose we'll find out soon, as the dam has busted. I'm 65, and I was talking with a friend and colleague yesterday about this stuff. We just can't understand it. Who brought these pathetic characters up? Didn't their parents teach them to respect women? Both of us discussed the fact that we have never witnessed such behavior nor behaved like any of these guys. So, for the famous ones, is this all a matter of what Bill Clinton said when asked why did he do it (with regard to Monica Lewinsky). He said: "Because I could." And, that case isn't even in the same league as any of the others lately.
1
Charlie Rose just got canned, as he most likely richly deserves. One wonders when a right-wing org will take such action.
And excuse me all to hell, but John Conyers' accuser turns out to be a far, far Right "men's rights," blogger. And Franken's stupid "joke," was a stupid, ugly joke, but it seems pretty weird that so far, his accusers are two far-right talk show people and a Trump voter.
Statistically kind of unlikely, don't you think? Meanwhile, still Trump and still Roy Moore.
2
What we have here are false equivalencies. The same kind of false equivalencies we had between Clinton and Trump. The email server was a big mistake, but it is in no way equal to the Access Hollywood tape or colluding with the Russians. Yes, It looks like Al Franken was harassing women, but he is and was a comedian who probably thought he was making funny crude jokes in both circumstances. Leeann Tweeden, a right wing talk show host, has accepted Franken's apology. Senator Al Franken is not Roy Moore. Let's have the Senate Ethics Committee investigate Franken and move on. How about investigating the Groper and Chief for his transgressions.
2
"The groping Franken has been accused of isn’t in the same moral universe as Moore’s alleged sexual abuse of minors. It seems perverse that Franken could be on his way out of the Senate while Moore might be on his way in."
That and the fact that accusation (especially the case of an accusation by someone who's been on Sean Hannity's show multiple times) CANNOT be treated as absolute proof. An accusation is just that, then must come some type of actual evidence of a crime...unless the Salem Witch Trials are your idea of a well functioning justice system.
3
I think asking Franken to go is making the wrong call. Justice is not being served if he goes while Moore may yet be elected; it means the lesser offender is punished while the greater offender is rewarded, with consequences for all of us. I also think it's ridiculous to rake up the past with Bill Clinton (who was impeached as a result of sexual indiscretions that were not sexual assault and arguably not sexual abuse, depending on your understanding of these terms) while the sitting president, who has been accused of much worse, is not impeached. It starts to look like one set of standards for Democrats and a different set for Republicans. As long as only one party pays, then the issue is no longer about respecting women; it's about politics, and people are using the issue of sexual harassment for political ends. Staging a creepy, sexist, tasteless photo is lousy behavior, but it's not sexual assault. Everything is not THE SAME here; we are not being inconsistent by thinking Moore and the president deserve closer scrutiny than Franken. Sexual behavior we don't like isn't automatically sexual abuse. We need clearer definitions of all these terms.
2
We have to think of our children’s future! I think of my 8-year-old granddaughter - so happy, so lovely, so intelligent. I do not want her someday to be the sleeping woman in a photo with another Mr. Franken. I would think Senator Franken’s effectiveness on women’s issues is over in any event.
4
Then don't send her on a USO tour after she has been the playmate and tell her not to grab her male colleagues. Also, don't let your son go to a USO show if he ends up in a combat zone.
4
In 'A Primate's Memoir', Robert Sapolsky's remarkable account of his years studying baboons in Kenya, he documents what happens when all of the troop's alpha males are killed off by infected meat, leaving the females in charge. Contrary to expectations, the females establish a long-lasting matriarchy featuring pacifism and nurturing as key attributes - the beta males readily adapt to this new culture of mutual grooming and affection, rather than aggression and threat.
Perhaps its time for human society to remove our alpha males, regardless of political party or affiliation, and replace them with women. They needn't be slaughtered, just isolated or - and this process seems already to have begun - made into pariahs. Too drastic, some might ask... Well, we males have had many thousands of years of "recorded" history and never actually managed to get things right side up. Maybe its about time to give the ladies a shot. Hey, it worked a treat for Sapolsky's baboon troop in Kenya.
3
After reading Ms. Goldberg's first article, when she suggested Mr. Franken's resignation, I did a lot of soul searching and I finally decided that she was correct in her assessment. Not because I thought Mr. Franken's transgression arose to the level of Roy Moore, or even the cowardly non-denials of Mr. Trump, but because it would be the right thing to do. We, as committed democrats and liberals, need to own the high road on this issue. We also need to drain a swamp and part of that swamp are the gender based disparities we men have enjoyed for years. Sometimes, you just need to rip the bandage off.
4
Senator Franken ABSOLUTELY should not resign.
Franken has been an effective senator and strong voice for progressive value. He should remain in the Senate to continue to do his good work.
Also Senator Franken apologized immediately. Unlike Moore, Clinton, Trump,... they never apologized.
Moral absolutism bothers me greatly.
Also, we must evaluate each case individually. Senator Franken is not Moore, not Trump, not Spacey, not Clinton...
In this Me-Too environment, we are easy to follow the group thinking and condemn every "perpetrator" equally, but we should not.
Also, we are all imperfect human being and entitled to make mistakes and entitled to get the second chances.
To those self-righteous democrats who are so eager to ask Senator Franken to resign, I must say if one has friends like you, who need enemies!
5
Evidence does indeed suggest that the photos of Franken were spun out now by Republican operatives because of the dire need for a neutralizing event to counter the misdeeds of Roy Moore. Otherwise, they were surely being stored in safe keeping to be released at some moment just prior to Franken's next election.
5
I think what's missing in this debate is a sense of proportion. If you think the accusations against Al Frankel are somehow morally equivalent to the accusations against Roy Moore, I believe your moral sense is wildly askew. Like it or not, the things of which Frankel is accused are things that society has taken for granted for millennia, up until the last (at most) twenty years. They're examples of men getting a little too casually "friendly" with women, and I suspect the degree to which one finds them reprehensible or even criminal has more to do with one's age and social status and (frankly) self-rightousness than it does with any hard and fast moral rules. The things of which Moore is accused are and always have been, in most societies and certainly in ours, considered to be crimes. There is a difference. If you don't see that, then you're doing these men, and our society, a grotesque disservice.
1
I wonder who paid the woman to tell the story of the MSF incident? Clearly, this accusation, and the one by a FOX reporter when Sen. Franken was a private citizen and clearly joking--(take a picture so can be sued later) are politically motivated to try and diminish the career of a powerful and antagonistuc foe of the GOP. Come on.
Clear guidelunes created in a calm, dispassionate environment is what is needed. Guidelunes for both men and women, that spells it ourt for ALL Americans, private or publc.
1
Boiled down, the article seems to suggest "Our guy is guilty of a minor crime, but we've accused your President and your candidate of much worse, so there!"
Can you see why this doesn't cut much ice with non-Democrats?
3
Your president has been charged with rape by a woman who was 13 a The the time of the alleged incident. Excuse my ignorance.
Ms Goldberg writes of redeeming qualities in the case of Al Franken. In Roy Moores case consideration may be warranted by the fact his pursuit of young girls apparently stopped when he found one that agreed to marry him.In all cases accusers say he stopped when told no. He has lived the last 30 yrs in accordance to the Commandments written on his two and a half ton monument.
1
It simply is not true that all sexual harassment is equal no more so than that all taking of a human life should be treated as premeditated murder. The end result of the lack of discrimination is just as likely to be that rape will be regarded as no more serious than an unsuccessful inappropriate pass.
Moreover, Democrat must stop forming circular firing squads. Franken should go ONLY if the sitting members of Congress who are responsible for part of the $17 million in payments to harassment victims are named and also required to leave. And, of course, the Assaulter in Chief in the White House would also resign as part of the house cleaning. Only then should the guy who is less culpable than all of them go.
2
Personally, I think this is the perfect example of the competing demands for a political leader. We want such leader to get things done, to inspire, and to represent us. These 3 things, however, are orthogonal and independent of each other. A person may be skillful, but has poor characters or holds different believes from us. Vice versa, a person may represent our opinions perfectly, but can't organize a 2 person picnic, let alone a country.
To put it differently, let's say that your plumber is a Republican who made some dumb jokes about groping another lady (whom you barely know). Would you fire that plumber on the spot after figuring out? I mean, you may tip the police if the "jokes" are real harassment, or if the transgression is too great to tolerate the person presence (e.g. if such person rapes rather than merely inappropriately jokes). In general though, you would continue to employ the person so long as the plumbing skill is high and the character flaws would neither disgust (terribly) nor impact job performance. And you don't care what party that person identifies with.
But a Senator (or a President) is treated differently. We don't just need the legislative and organizational skills. We also want character greatness as well representation.
Of course, such high demand and expectation means that the pool of available candidates (i.e. skillful people with impeccable character and spotless history) is vanishingly small.
We probably should figure a better way...
2
I think part of the problem people are having is 1- they weren't the ones who's personal space was attacked (I'm using this generic term since another issue is the varying offenses)
If you put yourself in both sets of shoes at least that if the victimized, you wouldn't have any hesitation to demand some sort of just response & have outrage!! There wouldn't be any of this back and forth & the political party or position of intruder would not matter. Hey if someone runs into you do you really care what card they have or their politics?
2- we all see these peoples' public persona. We see them as actors we like & enjoy or public figures we respect, etc (or don't respect so it's easier to condemn)
One of the problems is the offenders are rich & powerful.... Like many of our laws they are not prosecuted equally. If you are not wealthy enough or not white you go to jail.
1
What if a woman traveling in the Uso show saw a male performer sleeping, and said wouldn't it be funny if we took a photograph of me pretending to fondle his genitals? Would we think it was funny? Would her supporters rush in to defend such behavior? I doubt it. I believe that Senator Franken needs to resign, as little as I like being forced to that opinion.
3
Glad you are rethinking this.
Goldberg seems more concerned about the Democratic party than sexual harassment here. Like most Liberals, she will claim to defend [insert group here] until it is no longer politically expedient.
3
Either way he is toast. Can you imagine him speaking at a Senate hearing pontificating about ...name a topic.
3
As a reader says, proportionality is important here - we don't electrocute people for speeding because it's a minor crime.
Judgment is in short supply right now - trashing good people who have transgressed is not going to make us a better people nor give us a better government.
Politicians must think politically and if Democrats, who usually bring a knife to a gun fight, decide to knife their own, then as a political party, they will deserved the losses they get.
But trashing the hopes of my family, my state and my country by dumping someone as good as Franken simply strengthens the evil doers who now control darn near everything. We do not deserve that.
A little common sense and judgment, please!
3
Do we punish the man and his craft?
so this kind of "morality vs. politics" dancing on the head of a pin is OK for Franken, Clinton and Democrats but not OK for Moore, Trump and Republicans ?... let's be honest and consistent: all of these men deserve to be dumped - and the sooner the better... when electorates hang on to their one-time heroes (Mugabe, Castro, Chavez, to name just a few) in the name of ideology while they proceed to morally and financially bankrupt their countries, they commit national suicide... let's not let that kind of rot set in here
1
And here I was hoping the Democrats could take this opportunity to be better than the GOP on this issue. This was a gimme, and they're blowing it. Instead they prefer to keep serial sexual abusers like Franken on board for his votes. I assume Ms. Goldberg no longer opposes Moore for the Senate based on his history of sexual harassment? She better not, or she's a hypocrite.
3
You "adore" him?????? Wow. Watching this sanctimonious creep during hearings, it was hard to believe that a not-so-funny comic, who gained his seat via voter fraud, had anything to contribute to anyone/thing.
6
I just wish Ms. Goldberg (and a lot of others) had thought first and opined later. We are in a frenzy of trial by press conference and uncalibrated retribution. The use of the term “sexual assault” to describe everything from gang rape to a mocking staged photograph is part of the problem.
As a feminist boomer, I’m glad to see the end of the female code of omertà that enabled the Weinsteins and Goldschmidts of the world. In part, it was a reaction to the sexist protectionism that kept women out of so many jobs back then. It made sense to overlook minor transgressions and manage the boors in order to avoid being protected right back into the kitchen. But they got away with too much for too long. The dam has burst and the flood engulfs everything without discriminating.
It is good to know that a newer generation (many of whom reject the label ”feminist”} no longer accepts tawdry treatment as the price of admission. But a person who calls a press conference to announce that she agreed, albeit reluctantly, to a rehearsal kiss for a bawdy skit 11 years ago but didn’t like the way he did it and protested at the time...Really? Since when is boorishness news?
Perhaps the genders would benefit from a reconciliation commission. But how many of us, of either gender, would welcome a front page recounting of every act of sexual misconduct? That’s what the Pearly Gates are for.
3
To those democrats who ask Senator Franken's resignation,
I must say if one has a friend like you who needs enemies...
Let's face it.
Senator Franken did something improper and he apologized. To me, it is enough.
He has not done anything to a degree requiring resignation.
Punishment should be in proportion to the mistake.
Plus, he doesn't need to be the scapegoat for this me-too environment treating every "perpetrator" as the same.
30
I'm a sexual abuse survivor from ages 10-17. My abuser was an extremely well-liked, popular, giving man. I was terrified that if I told anyone, I would never be believed.
I have seen throughout my life that, contrary to my fears being childish misperception, I was entirely right.
Over & over, as here in multiple comments, people care not for the victims one iota, but for the power of the perpetrator. All hypocrites, every last one of you. Worse, you are worse than the abuser himself, because you justify his behavior, silence the victims' voices, use false equivalences,& rationalize your own moral cowardice.
Abuse is abuse is abuse. Period. It should not matter whether the abuse is from our 'allies' -whatever that means. If you were truly about the rights of victims, you wouldn't care. But you do care. Because your'e not about the rights of victims. What you are is about preserving your own power. "Allies" get multiple second chances, enabling & worse, sordid attacks on the accusers -- Clinton (& yes Hillary too) being the most notorious example for me.
You have no moral right to toss out Trump's name as a 'predator' while at the same time knowing for 25 years what Clinton and Weinstein are, and refusing to do a thing because you like their politics. How on earth do you think that makes the victims feel?
Too much of feminism is not about feminism but instead about using this as a tool to further your own power. You can be in denial all you want but it's the truth.
5
Of interest; in my 20s I was groped and pressured by powerful women my field. How common is that?
2
Far from the same thing and it's misogyny to imply any comparison. As men we have to be flexible and don't get to set a low bar about any kind of treatment. Women can set their limit at zero if they so wish. That's something fierce fought for since before suffrage.
The way you can tell if someone should go is to decide what you'd think if someone on the other side of the aisle did the same thing.
Al Franken is mostly good on the issues - but not all issues. And he's certainly not the only left-leaning pol in MN. He should resign and the governor should replace him with a truly liberal woman. You get two wins for one loss.
Ms. Goldberg's attitude expressed in this article, the "rethinking" applauded by virtually all posters, is exactly what has led to workplace sexual harassment against women being tolerated in the first place, and more than that, harassment has been pervasive precisely because of the widespread attitude Ms. Goldberg seems to advocate: if it's one of us, he gets a pass. This is how it has been possible for workplace harassment to flourish all this time.
It is amazing that it took scarcely 48 hours for liberals to come full circle. Any moral high ground liberals may have had is gone.
Unbelievable.
11
That's the right moral approach: our principles are only good until they bring profit to us.
2
How many "good" men, allies of female equality in all aspects of society (marriage, employment, politics) are, in part, motivated by a desire to win the approval of women; and how much of that motivation is the shy and sly hope that such approval might lead to reciprocal sexual attraction?
1
Unfortunately, you make the same argument the Republicans have: leave Franken in his Senate seat for political reasons, so as not to lose a democratic vote in Congress. Abuse is abuse, there are no degrees of it. Who decides which degree of abuse is worse or less than another? To decide degrees of abuse enables the abuser. Isn’t that what we are trying to stop?
We first have to have ABUSE. There are a lot of cases where abuse is clear and incontrovertible. There are also a lot of cases where it isn't, it is in the "eye of the beholder". Is it an accident or not. If it wasn't an accident is it abuse or a friendly gesture ? etc. What do you do with that uncerta ? Then there is the case, which I think we have in the LeAnn Tweedon situation, of after the fact entrapment of Franken. How do you relate to that that possibility and still be respectful of women ?
2
Franken should reply when asked about his resignation, "I'll resign when President Trump resigns. Not before."
5
Eliminating Franken from the Senate would be the dumbest possible thing that could be done.
What is the point. He did what he did. Given the way male children of most cultures were raised over the last 10,000 years or so such action is probably way more common than we think, probably involves a very large percentage of males over the age of 20. This is not an excuse for the action. It is however evidence of a chain of cause and effect. Historically, men have treated women the way they have been trained to treat them.
What is good that is happening is that for the first time in any history I know anything about this action is being greatly exposed as NOT O.K. Over the past couple of generations the raising of children in many of the families with which I am familiar boys are not being taught that such behavior is a sign of their masculinity, that they are not superior to "girls". 30 years ago, a vice principle in the grade school my daughter was attending tried to keep my daughter out of a college level math class because "girls aren't good at advanced calculus."
1.I think that Al Franklin really gets this, and that this was a kind of wake up call for him, the first time in his life that he actually realized what it was. 2.Al Franken is a way, way, better person, morally and caring wise, to have in the Senate for the Common Good than many of the self serving hypocrites who may or may not have participated in similar activity at some time in their lives.
3
Forgive me this note: In this harassment story must have been women who capitulated to demands/opportunity and subjected themselves to the proverbial casting couch. Did they get ahead and who are they? Did the advantage of femininity/capitulation provide a head start and early success. If so, did they earn this advantage or not? Is evolution at play or not? Again, forgive me, but many of the women in the media, and Hollywood, and aspects of society (getting to the top) has a correlation to beauty and femininity. Evolution? Maybe not.
This is a transformative moment. The amount of harassment that has been accepted is becoming ever clearer and a welcome change in thinking and accountability among men and also many women is happening, however I do fear a sort of zero tolerance moral panic is developing. I am not talking about criminality or inappropriate touching. I am talking about possibly an ill timed stare or a joke of questionable taste. A standard where the smallest transgression might now be a threat to someone's otherwise stellar reputation. There is little doubt that very few of us in our lives could withstand that kind of scrutiny. This not a defense of Al Franken. His reputation deserves to be diminished, but if his offense is not differentiated from that of Roy Moore or Harvey Weinstein than the bar can slip ever lower and what appears to be real progress might be tainted by well meaning but overzealous enforcers.
1
An ill timed stare or questionable joke need not be acceptable to any woman, as the target or an observer. Women can set their limit for such boorishness at zero if they so wish.
Can we please stop agonizing over Franken? He's a great senator, but he's a grown man, and he should have known better. Full stop.
And we should not have been laughing at his bad jokes (when they were bad) or at Louis CK's jokes either.
What he did does not rise to a level (as far as I know) of criminal charges, but he still needs to take this to heart. He can take positive action on the issues - speak up, educate, and make amends. He can meet with the women involved (and does he have a wife?), with a counselor or mediator, and deal with the issues that his behavior has created for the women and for himself. None of this is up to us spectators. It's to his own benefit to learn better ways.
Assaults against children (including teenagers), domestic violence, and rape are one thing. That's the use of power and violence against people (and domestic violence affects boys too) in really vulnerable situations. Full extent of the law, and all that.
Franken's actions are different. I'm 70 and I have seen plenty of workplace nonsense. Power breeds bad behavior, generally speaking, and probably in women too. We can and need to confront this stuff when it happens. We need to confront the thoughtless exercise of power. Intellectual agonizing does no good. Franken's actions were wrong. He's generally a good man. Hate the sin, love the sinner, hope he repents and goes forth to do good.
Moore and Trump show no signs of repentance.
2
There are no universal standards for sexual harassment that applies to all men in every situation around women. There can be rules for work and public, but even then where do you draw the line between a innocent jesture and a serial sexual harasser? There is nothing wrong about accepting Franken's apology on the first and statement on the second. He did what majority of men have done and nothing was said or done then or afterward. Why not just let it go and focus on the Moores, Trumps and Weinsteins of the world?
Let Franken resign after the vote on the tax bill.
After his unwanted advances were rebuffed by a young woman half his age, this man did the following:
• Invaded this woman's personal space while she slept.
• Requested a photo to commemorate the insult to her privacy and dignity as he placed his hands over her breast while she was asleep and unaware.
This is the conduct of someone who sees himself as too important to respect boundaries. In other words, he is a bully. Sexual harassment is bullying... and this little man's ego is larger than his intellect, as demonstrated by the photo that he deliberately arranged.
Thanks, but I don't need him making decisions and casting votes on my behalf in the US Senate.
4
We need to differentiate more categories of wrongful male behavior toward women. How about:
Sexist. Anytime a man begins a sentence with, “Women…”
Vulgar. Any man who tells a dirty joke about women.
Misogynist. Any man who uses the P and C words.
Inappropriate. Any man who makes a romantic advance toward a woman but who cannot see that she is disinterested.
Offensive. Any man who makes a romantic advance toward a woman despite seeing that she is disinterested.
Harassment. Any man in a position of power who makes a romantic advance toward a woman who is disinterested and then makes her pay for it by using his power to punish her. (Womanizing does not count; the consent is mutual. A problem only occurs in the aftermath when the man uses his power to punish a woman—in which case it is harassment.)
Abuse. Any man who repeatedly violates a woman’s psychology with the threat of physical violence.
Assault 1. Any man who forces himself on a woman with unwanted physical contact but is too clueless to see that the contact is unwanted.
Assault 2. Any man who forces himself on a woman with unwanted physical contact DESPITE seeing that the contact is unwanted.
Assault 3. Any man who forces himself on a woman with unwanted physical contact BECAUSE the contact is unwanted.
Date Rape. Any man who forces himself on the woman he is dating even when she says no.
Stranger Rape. Any man who forces himself on a woman he doesn’t know with the threat of physical violence.
1
Our cost in not defending Franken is that he is being tried and convicted without benefit of a public hearing where all players have to take an oath to tell the truth.
1
I wonder if there isn't a bit of a double standard at work. Because I agree with Al Franken politically, and despite the photographic evidence for what he's accused of, we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. On the other hand, when women raise allegations against those we don't agree with, those politicians need to drop out of the race or step down immediately, if only because the allegations are so much more heinous. I think we all need some clear-headed debate on this.
We've all of us known that this slimy behavior has existed for the many decades that some of us have been alive. As a gay man, such behavior from my straight male colleagues has always intimidated and frightened me, and ultimately made me glad always to see women simply as other people, as friends, as, to some extent, similarly oppressed and discriminated against as are people in the gay community. It's undoubtedly good that at last some sense of justice is prevailing. But in the midst of this, are we really ALWAYS to "believe the women"? Does the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" now go out the window, simply because an egregious ignoring of grossly aberrant behavior has been tolerated for so long? Are we now to presume that simply being of the female gender guarantees total honesty and invariable rectitude, without ever any ulterior motive? I think we're right to assume most who come forward do so at considerable risk, and after long-suffering years of keeping silent. But, we must at the same time struggle to keep our perspective... our objectivity in the midst of such an emotionally fraught issue.
1
Thank you Ms. Goldberg for presenting the complexity of the issue. You're becoming one of my favorite columnists. Yes, we need to see the larger picture here and not yell "off with his head" for every misconduct without considering the nature of the deed and the person's value to the larger cause of women's rights. I do think there should be lines in the sand, but Franken definitely has not crossed them.
2
"Unilateral disarmament" poses a real danger in the current political climate. My feminist compromise is this: Senator Franken may resign over his behavior, but not one moment before Trump resigns over his.
It is time for him to go. If our society is to retain any sense of morality he needs to resign. It is one thing to boast about how he champions women but another to set an example.
Your thought that "there’s a cost to defending them from consequences we’d demand if the politics were reversed" implies that if a Republican did what Franken did you would be certain he should resign. I wouldn't. It is so different than the abuse of the others accused, including the abuse of power. And a sophomoric joke at the expense of a bystander is not a reason for someone to resign. (Sophomoric jokes at the expense of bystanders are often, unfortunately, comedians stock in trade.)
I would, in Franken's case, be more critical about Leeann Tweeden's missing step--the decency to contact Franken first. Speaking out publicly is something you do if there is an indication that others might also be in danger or--possibly--if the perpetrator did not respond decently to your grievance one on one. (Possibly.) I don't know Franken, but I would even believe that after her protest about not rehearsing the kiss part of their skit, he might even have mashed her as another bad joke.
2
Not to worry. We all understood the Democratic Party and its media enablers would go after a few has-beens like Weinstein but abandon any sense of principle or consistency once powerful Democrats were at risk.
1
Ms. Goldberg succeeds in inadvertently contradicting herself more than once in within a column intended to present self contradiction. Has it occurred to her that the root of the current enthusiasm for “outing” sexual harassment by prominent progressives is rooted in the historic - and erroneous - liberal assumption of the moral high ground? Liberals have always assumed that their positions are not only different, but more virtuous than those of their conservative opponents. Recent revelations reveal that human beings of all political ideologies are equally capable of abusing power through despicable behavior in private. The solution to this crisis is the same for sex as it is for politics - the exercise of mutual respect in thought, word and action. The NYT could take the opportunity to lead by example in this effort. That would mean employing more careful thought and articulation than is exhibited in this column or elsewhere in the Times to date.
She claimed that it is mostly liberals who are under the gun because liberal groups are more willing to force the men to account for themselves.
That ignores decades of protecting Bill Clinton, and it ignores the fact that the accusers aren't organized by liberal groups to out the sexual harassers and abusers on the left.
The women are coming out because they finally feel safe doing so.
1
Liberals do not take a position of having the moral high ground. Some of the most liberal also seem to be the most willing to share their love. What liberals run on is keeping their noses out of the voters' bedrooms, keeping their religion to themselves and out of politics, letting women and their doctors decide what is best for them. As far as sex goes, we pretty much don't care what consenting adults do as long as they don't do it in the streets and scare the horses. The numbers of men and women in both parties who forget that seem to be about the same. It seems to make little sense to try out throw Franken out of the Senate while working hard to put Roy Moore there.
I respect her honesty regarding her hypocrisy but you can't have a lower standards for those who vote your way. You can never claim the moral high ground.
Random thoughts...
If Roy Moore was dating young boys, his candidacy would be finished already. Also, it appears that handsome men never get accused of sexual harassment. Finally, not enough people "do the right thing" these days. Al Franken should just resign. The country needs people like we thought he was until last week.
1
Thinking about the Franken issue has inclined me to think about all these men--and whether their careers should end--in terms of divorce. If I were married to these men and learned about their transgressions, would I divorce them? Some are easy: Harvey Weinstein? Charlie Rose? Roy Moore? Buh bye. Al Franken? No. I would give him a piece of my mind, but I would support him and stay married (his transgressions should be condemned, but they don't rise to the "cast ye from the garden" level). Oddly, this "method" for analyzing the situation has also led me to reevaluate my views of Bill Clinton. I (liberal Dem admirer of Bill Clinton) would have divorced him (politically and conjugally) were I to do things over today. The problem isn't so much the Monica thing, but the years of obnoxious sexual predation. For me, this question is: can this guy confess his sins and redeem himself? I seriously doubt Weinstein is capable of living a normal sexual life. Ditto the younger Bill Clinton. Franken, I suspect, is chastened and capable (indeed deserving) of redemption.
Mrs. Moore is out campaigning for her husband and standing by her man. Just like Eleanor Roosevelt, Jaqueline Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.
1
In other words, Michelle Goldberg prefers partisanship over principle.
You're getting closer, but you're still not there.
The argument that Franken was not actually touching [the Kevlar vest on] the woman is not "Jesuitical;" it's fact. And the whole leering quality, and all the people around, show that it was a joke pose - not even a joke act. Stop equivocating; this one is easy.
5
Yes, Michelle Goldberg, my sentiments and dilemma exactly!
39
For heaven's sake, Mr. Franken did the first act when he was a comedian and it was done in public as, I assume, a joke. Stupid? OK. He has admitted that & apologized. As to the second instance regarding putting his hand on a woman's rear, if she was so humiliated, why did she put that picture on facebook??
I am glad that Ms. Goldberg now recognizes that "many behaviors are being lumped together." For me, it is important to 'sort the wheat from the chaff'. If the questionable actions of every man are deemed as odious as that of serious predators, women will cheapen their case. Men are not perfect. Neither are women.
I write this not as a political calculation, but as a woman who feels that facts are more important than emotions. It will take a long time to sort through the allegations and yes, some men should be punished, but to ruin the lives of all men for having made a mistake but have been not been serial offenders, seems to me unfair and in the long run, counterproductive.
229
Agree entirely. A crude, boorish sexual pass by one adult to another is not the same thing as stalking and pressuring underage girls for sex, or threatening young women with loss of career prospects or loss of a job if they don’t grant sexual favors. Adultery between consenting adults is not the same thing as non-consensual sex. And so on. These are not minor distinctions but major ones.
4
I am reminded of Winston Churchill, who long despised Stalin and all his governance. In June 1941 Churchill (on the day before Hitler's invasion of the Soviet Union) spoke favorably of Stalin in Parliament. He was challenged on this. He replied that if Hitler were planning to invade Hell, he would reconsider his opinions of the Devil himself, and might even say a few good words about Satan in the House of Commons.
If this is a (not as yet very violent} war we cannot always be picky about our allies. On the other hand, if this is not a war. I favor that people like Franken and Rose to pay the price. Of course, if this is not a war, we would see people like Moore and Trump thrown out first, and thrown out farther.
2
It has been common practice in trials involving sexual issues, like harassment or rape, for the defense attorneys to attempt to demean the victims. This is designed to convince judges or juries that the victim “deserved” or contributed to the crime. Accordingly, the news media make every effort to protect the victim.
In the Senator Franken case, it is a bit more complicated because of the circumstances surrounding the actions at issue. Before Ms. Tweeden released her accusations against the Senator, Roger Stone, well-known for his history of “dirty tricks”, had issued a press release stating that Franken would be the next person to be accused of sexual harassment. How did he know this before everyone else? Moreover, Ms. Tweeden has been a frequent guest on Sean Hannity’s Fox News program. Is there a connection that is relevant?
Over the past weekend, several videos of the USO tour have been posted on social media apparently showing Ms. Tweeden wrapping her legs around Robin Williams, planting a kiss on him and slapping his behind. Similarly, a video shows her rubbing her body against a musician and slapping his buttocks. Finally, a photo shows her kissing the lips of a married enlisted man.
Do these actions excuse Senator Franken? Probably not. But the show activities portrayed do provide context for the accusations of Ms. Tweeden. As this topic regarding sexual behavior becomes more important, the contextual component must be considered in reporting and commentary.
238
I understand Ms. Goldberg's ambivalence, but I do not share it.
What she terms a "lame non-denial" was a carefully crafted statement. As were Senator Franken's previous statements. The fact is that when a bunch of people are scrunching together to take a picture, especially when there's a disparity in height, sometimes hands and other body parts end up in uncomfortable places. There's a major difference between three accidental seconds on a posterior and an actual grope.
As for Ms. Tweeden, there is enough conflicting conversation and evidence as to what happened to sow doubt on the story as she has presented it. As Mr. Franken originally said, they remember the incident differently.
I'm a woman. I personally have experienced both harassment and assault, and strongly believe that women's voices should be heard and believed. But that should not be an excuse to turn this into open season on men. Senator Franken himself called for an investigation; let that happen, with actual evidence presented, and let's take it from there.
1
The problem with the author of the op-ed and so many others is that she is imagining herself in the photo as Al Franken. "Awww, come on. I'm trying to be funny! Is it that bad?". Instead, imagine for two seconds that you are that sleeping woman, and that picture is plastered all over the Internet. That that picture even exists. That it has been laughed at and passed around for years. That you were powerless to stop it. You are that woman and you are the laughing stock of all the people Backstage because a famous comedian is touching your breasts and leering. that is harassment. That deserves punishment. Men need to know that behavior is not OK, and is punishable by the loss of a job, whether we like or dislike the perpetrator.
Ms Teeden most likely just hopes they spell her name correctly. And I am not apologizing for not having a bit of sympathy here. She is giving her career a little boost by getting in on the Me Too action. Maybe her career was in the doldrums. I wouldn't know as I never heard of her before this. She is trivializing the issues of abuse and harrassment for politics, publicity, a payoff or a combination of things. Embarrassment because her name and face were displayed and she got some free publicity was not one of those things. Franken was another crass comedian on a USO tour, not her boss. If this was such a humiliating and upsetting episode for her she is probably in the wrong business.
1
"I spent all weekend feeling guilty that I’d called for the sacrifice of an otherwise decent man to make a political point."
Ok, thanks for your honesty.
Next time try and make it a little less about you. That piece should have been stopped by your editors.
2
After having read many of the first 500 comments to Ms. Goldberg's column, and the (as of this writing) 13 NYT Picks, it's clear whomever is doing NYT's picking has an obvious bias. This is atypical of how the NYT handles these comments. Ms. Goldberg realizes she blew it in her last column. She's acknowledging it in this column, if grudgingly. The worst way to honor Ms. Goldberg's thought migration is to tell her, via "NYT Picks," that she was right the first time.
The left claims to have no understanding why the right was so upset that they covered for Bill Clinton, a man accused of raping Juanita Broaddrick.
Liberals were so desperate to get and keep a liberal in the White House that they didn't care he'd raped a woman.
While president, as the most powerful man in the world, Bill Clinton had sex with an intern...one of the least powerful people in the world.
The complete lack of ethics and morals shown by liberals disgusted us, and it sullied the presidency.
Liberals like to tell us how to live, after proving they are unfit to lecture us on anything.
1
This didn't really happen like that, you know. Nobody excused Bill Clinton's sleazy behavior; we said that it was just sleazy behavior. And as for Ms. Broadderick, why yes, we noted that her story kept changing, and that she was paid by far-right types.
I don't know what happened, and neother do you. I do know that by the standards you just laid out, Donald Trump needs to go--for doing things he's BRAGGED about.
There is a difference between shoplifting and serial murder. If Franken was accused of rape and sexual assault by multiple women who were teenagers at the time, I would want him expelled from the senate and hopefully prosecuted for his crimes.
If Moore was guilty of a clumsy pass at an adult on a USO tour, or a photo of him pretending to grope a grown woman, or even grabbing a constituent's butt (in public? outdoors, surrounded by dozens if not hundreds of onlookers?) I would be hard pressed, despite his otherwise reprehensible views on women, Muslims, LGBT, community RACE etc, to say that those "crimes" rise to the level of making him unfit for the senate.
Now that we are perhaps in a watershed moment, we should make sure that we aren't conflating every revelation of sexual transgression into Harvey Weinstein, or Roger Ailes.
Liberals SHOULD hold themselves to a higher standard on this topic, as it is Liberals who champion the rights of women, but we should be careful that in our newfound, long overdue decision to "believe the women" we don't decimatw our ranks of the good, in our pursuit of the perfect.
I don't believe that, based on what we know now, that Franken deserves to be expelled. I do believe that Moore is a child molester and a disgrace to his religion his party and to all decent people.
2
No Democrat should ever resign when we ahve the chief sexual abuser still in the White House, unless it is for sexual violence against a woman. End of story.
Oh dear! Liberals are confused.
Franken's USO tour prank does not, to my eyes, reach the point of assault. The pictures I have seen of the kiss and the grope suggest that she was in on the joke. The real trouble is the joke was not funny. Saying that, anyone who knows anything about comedy knows that when a joke works someone is usually caused some discomfort or some feelings get hurt.
There is another angle on the tour. Tours like that are really hard on people and blowing off steam can some times go wrong.
Franken has called on his Senate colleagues to investigate. A first from what I heard. I have seen no honest self appraisals coming from any of of the republicans who have been accused, just deny, deny, deny.
It's a good bet he has learned his lesson and will never again touch anyone again. I doubt we could say that about t rump or moore.
1
In Genesis, Abraham offers his wife to Pharaoh. Later on Lot offers his daughter to be raped to the men of Sodom as he cannot give up his male angel guests to the gay mob due to hospitality laws. God repeatedly commands the Israelites to slaughter Canaanites, Jebusites, etc and says its fine to keep the maidens to rape at will.
St. Paul says women should wear veils and be silent in worship and obey their husbands.
Swift Boats Veterans For "Truth", John McCain has a "black baby", Joe McCarthy with fictitious lists of Communists.
Let's not let this harassment issue ravage the lives of good men. I respect women as much as anyone on the planet but ruining a man's career and reputation from one kiss or butt touch is extreme overkill. What about Schwarzenegger, Thomas, Trump, Bill Clinton, Roman Polanski, et al
Persecuting a man like Franken when the sins of so many men with far worse pasts are not held up account is absurd.
I have been stalked by three women in my life, and I have no need to try to ruin their lives because of how they were then. Does every momentary sexual gesture have to result in ruination? What about all the other flaws in politicians that hurt the lives of millions, the lying, the corruption, the laws tilted towards the 1%? We tolerate some miserable behavior everyday and don't make these pathetic pols pay.
And why do Democrats sabotage their own party regularly? A conscience yes, but giving away power so easily?
1
Nice stock photo of the fake Senator looking like a serious individual. Unfortunately for him and fortunately for the rest of, the Franken hands-on-boobs shot will be his icon for the rest of his short and sordid career. Unfortunately for the rest of us, there is a large body of democrat supporters willing to ignore the evidence in the photo and his editorial "contributions" to a skin mag. It's understandable given the blind support they gave a certain molester in the White House and the cowardly lion of the Senate.
In that company, Franken still looks good. As far as we know, he hasn't raped anyone or left anyone to drown in a submerged car while he hid out to sober up.
Ms. Goldberg has unwittingly proposed a NEW HASHTAG: #sortametoounlessIneedyoulikeyouorloveyouthenIamnotrealllyavictim
If that is your hashtag, this may help: National Sexual Assault Telephone Hotline https://www.rainn.org/about-national-sexual-assault-telephone-hotline
Can the New York Times print the names of the Moore donors who have contributed to his campaign since the sexual harassment allegations became public. It would be prudent to know the names of the people who would support an alleged child molester over a Democrat.
There has been a blizzard of women coming forward lately sharing their stories of sexual harassment by men in the workplace. Who can blame them. For so long the subject was completely taboo and the repercussions far reaching, some women even losing their jobs.
However, while no doubt more than 90% of the accounts are true, there have been incidences where, for whatever reason, some women have either exaggerated their stories or even been quite untruthful. The cases that spring to mind are the Tawana Brawley Case and the Duke Rape Case. Also the women who accused 93-year-old George H W Bush of "sexual assault" when, from his wheelchair he touched or grabbed their butt, are a little ridiculous.
Since the allegations have been make against Al Franken, there have been counter allegations and photos on the internet against his accuser.
So, before calling for the end of a good Senator's career, we should all take a deep breathe.
3
Of course. LIberals are the chosen people. They get to deploy the double standard on any issue if its politically convenient.
This became clear when Bill Clinton was credibly accused of rape.
1
We can have a conversation with Franken and about Franken that is unlike the conversations possible with Trump or Moore.
Franken's behavior was joking in the way that an air force pilot recently drew a penis in exhaust by his plane. And, in context, the joking was part of the era just as minstrel shows were seen as entertainment rather than strictly racist commentary. (I'm not excusing either, but within context these were mainstream and common.)
Trump and Moore, on the other hand, were predators using their power to intimidate and prey on women. There's a BIG difference.
How big? Just look at the WH official statement that the difference is that Franken admitted his mistake and apologized whereas our president called his female accusers liars and, because he has not admitted wrongdoing OR apologized.....according to the WH, it didn't happen.
And, maybe, we do need men in government who can recognize, acknowledge and apologize for past mistakes....as opposed to the ones who think their privilege of power still holds them guiltless.
2
Franken's transgressions have been met with apology and appropriate embarrassment. To compare him to men whose behavior has been worse and denied, leaves me ready to support him knowing he has been a real jerk, but one who will never repeat any if the things he did to lose him while being stuck with Trump and more. No way.
1
"Adding to the confusion is the way so many different behaviors are being lumped together." Among my concerns are using the phrase "sexual harrassment" to covers behaviors are not workplace abuses of power. So far, Franken's behaviors as described are not sexual harassment. The recent charge of Franken grabbing the woman's butt is worse than the behaviors described by Leeann Tweeden. First, he was a senator and therefore it was a violation of trust on several levels.
Secondly, the behavior from 2006 was in a USO tour where Franken was there as a comedian and Leeann Tweeden was there as a sexy woman. She was a former and later awarded Hooters waitress. Five years after the incident with Franken, she did a nude pictorial for Playboy. I wish she had used her reported humiliation after seeing the photograph of Franken feigning grabbing her hooters as information for her to consider her role in the culture's treatment of woman as sex objects. Franken absolutely should not have done what he did, forcing a kiss on her and participating in that photograph. That photograph is about exploiting a women as a sex object. Google Tweeden photos; clearly, wearing the glasses was a tactical choice.
The focus needs to be on changing the culture so women and girls can operate in personal and work environments freely without risking sexual abuse, verbal or physical. Men need to behave like adults. Women need to encourage a culture where we are not treated as sex objects.
1
Essentially Goldberg is saying "If the perv is a Democrat, maybe we should protect them". The past few days have shown up the hypocrisy of the press more than I can ever remember.
3
Maybe a way through and out for the liberal community is for liberal men to reflect and disclose. John Newton owned his and the world’s sin of slavery after a long career participating in that abomination. Thinking about “Amazing Grace”, maybe a chorus of awakenings by flawed men of goodwill could transform the present painful mess into a cleansing.
Wow! How wrong can you be????
You either have no sense of proportion or you don't or won't use your judgment. You seem to grasp that there is a huge difference between what Franken is accused of and, say, molesting a 14-year old girl. But that doesn't stop you from joining the witch hunt (the one where the witches do the hunting) and demanding Franken's head on a platter. You succumb hook, lime and sinker to the very sex panic you refer to.
I say that though I detest Franken. I have never gotten his oafish sophomoric sense of humor. Not to mention that I am a Republican from Minnesota. And there is no defense for Franken's oafish behavior.
But the punishment should fit the crime. Every day millions of times, people do horrible things to people, far far worse than this. What punishment would fit Franken's behavior then? A reprimand by his Senate colleagues? A civil suit for assault?
No, you join the mob crying "off with his head." When this hysteria finally subsides, in the cold light of a new day, I hope you will wake up feeling deeply ashamed of the damage you have done.
14
This writer is now emphasizing that Franken should be let off her hook because he's a leftist. But ANY Republican with the same offense gets the hook. Wow! And leftist brag about their interest in fairness! LOL
2
I get your point but to be fair M Goldberg is struggling with this, not emphasizing it. As are many on the right. You want your team to win, so you don't want to sacrifice your best players.
Which is the whole problem - citizens view politics in terms of teams. Blech.
I was groped by a college professor in a crowded mail room: felt a hand on my backside and turned to find him scurrying away through the crowd with a disquieting leer on his face, as though he had planted a flag in my own private Idaho. Before going to the Dean of Faculty I went to my advisor. She did not tell me what to do, but did explain the consequences were I to follow through: it would mean his career.
Thirty-five years on he is set to retire this year. His courses are not to be missed, my friends who teach there tell me. My conscience is clear, and I am none the worse for wear. I am profoundly grateful to my advisor's wisdom.
I believe Senator Franken.
1
Did you ever confront the prof? "I could report you and it would mean your career - but I won't. Unless I ever hear of you doing the same thing to someone else ever again."
But...easier said than done I guess.
Don't you wonder, though, how many other people he groped and that he might have stopped if confronted early on?
And would it really have meant his career, 35 years ago, or was your advisor trying to scare you off to protect a groper?
I know I was not the only one. My advisor in no way tried to scare me.
The look on his face was what offended me; the presumption, the weird look of triumph. And yes, it would have ended his career. He was not the only professor to do this to me, but I did not take a class from him so my studies were not affected. The other person was not rehired, and I just let the matter go, despite having my enthusiasm for a class ruined.
What a predicament, trying to make us, imperfect human beings as we are (especially us men), a bunch of perfect idiots incapable of wrongdoing. Not to excuse our lack of respect towards the better half of earthly folks; but no room for redemption, even if a deep apology is offered on a silver plate? And the imposition of new rules of decency, in hopes they won't be broken, while keeping those fallen in disgrace at work, if able and willing to lift women to their rightful place, and allegiance to honor gender equality? Would you agree with me that, in this case, the best is enemy of the good? And asking the impossible (perfection), is a utopian chimera within an envelope made of mysterious stuff and delivered by elves?
3
Your indelicate inner debate should have remained internal if you truly care about a moral outcome. Franken, despite his very minor offenses, warrants a better process than this media idiocy including your rushed participation.
5
true, but Goldberg is a columnist with a column to write. She got two columns out of this and hopefully some deeper understanding of the whole process.
I am so glad that you have had second thoughts, Michelle Goldberg. I was dismayed by your quick condemnation of Al Franken last week, and I continue to be disturbed by those calling for his immediate resignation. I share the deep respect for Franken you mention; when I weigh Tweeden and Menz' assertions of sexual harassment against the strong support voiced by Senate staffers as well as colleagues from his time in comedy, I begin to question the truthfulness and motivations of Franken's accusers. Here's an example of something that makes me sceptical: Leeann Tweeden claims that Franken 'groped' and 'grabbed' her breasts. But the photo clearly shows air space between Franken's hand and her body. And what's more, Tweeden is wearing a Flak Jacket! Now maybe I am being 'Jesuitical', but I doubt that even Superman could grab a lady's bazoom through a flak jacket, much less Al Franken. I also wonder whether Tweeden's peculiarly well-timed revelation of outrage had anything to do with her long-time connections to the Fox channel, the potential for appearances on the Sean Hannity Show, or the fact that Roger Stone apparently had pre-knowledge of her plan to release the UFO photo. I certainly want to avoid the sort of automatic defensiveness we've seen in Roy Moore's supporters, but I also disagree with those who are willing to condemn Al Franken before doing some careful research.
4
The reaction Franken's sophmoric prank by the rabid monkey faction of the media and the rabid sheeple who buy into the avalanche of false equivalencies being propagated is disheartening to say the least. To be clear, the sleeping boob shot was just that, a sophmoric prank. I was subjected to a similar photo prank at a wedding recently and I was awake. Yes, I was annoyed but hardly angry. It was a bad rehashed joke from college, a miss this time. I would no more de-friend the people involved in my experience than I would call for Franken's removal. I prize the people involved as friends and I prize Franken as both a Senator and a comedian. As far as the character of the woman accusing Franken, the other players (apparently Roger Stone,etc) involved, and the suspicious timing of the accusations, this looks more like a hit job intended to damage Franken's reputation. The media needs to stop feeding the hysteria and creating false equivalencies of sexual abuse when there is no equivalency at all. it appears to be a race to the bottom by the media covering these stories without regard to actual. fact.
6
Thanks for one, and your last point... ". The media needs to stop feeding the hysteria and creating false equivalencies of sexual abuse when there is no equivalency at all. it appears to be a race to the bottom by the media covering these stories without regard to actual. fact."
As in everything, there is a whole spectrum of degrees here. Using accusations of sexual abuse as a political weapon poses a direct threat to our society. Is a squeeze on the buttock of an adult the moral equivalent of stripping to your undershorts, taking the clothes off of a 14-year-old girl, groping her through her bra & panties and grabbing her hand and trying to force her to touch your groin through your own underpants?
I received an email from "VOICES of Conservative Women" asking me to sign a petition calling for Franken's expulsion. I wrote back saying I'd consider it the moment they added Trump and Moore to the list. Surprise - I never heard
back.
Many of Moore's defenders say they believe his accusers, but believe that morality should take a back seat to the need to keep a GOP Senate seat to help with the GOP plan to shear the sheep and reward their billionaire benefactors with tax "reform" and maintain a majority in case there is another Supreme Court nomination this term. Makes you wonder if these faux-christians would support their Anti-Christ, or Satan himself if he promised to vote with the GOP. It is ironic that so-called "Family Values Christians" are trying to get Franken out of the Senate and Moore in.
I see a pendulum swinging from decades of suppression of serial sexual abuse by people like Weinstein, Weiner, Moore, Ailes, O'Reilly, and Trump to a decade where thousands of men are going to be accused of improper conduct and immediately discarded.
2
To be more accurate in my view, I would contend that forcibly shoving your tongue down someone's throat is in fact a sexual assault, a crime. I also do not think that Louis C.K.'s domineering exhibitionism is less troubling than the Harvey Weinstein rapes. It is the violation and dominance that exhibitionist masturbators are seeking, much like rapists. Also, in terms of paraphilia (deviant sexual behaviours) that go along with rape and/or tend to escalate to rape, exhibitionist masturbation is right up there on the list. Finally in terms of impacts, Louis C.K.'s victims may have had reactions more intense or less intense, more permanent or less permanent, based on their particular histories and vulnerablilities. It is not only rape which destroys lives, although a male-created and male-dominated justice system tends to focus on penile penetrative rape as the most "serious" sex crime. It is very serious of course, but for victims other so-called "less serious" assaults can have just as devastating consequences, that last a lifetime.
38
"forcibly shoving your tongue down someone's throat" Hyperbolic and as yet, merely an allegation.
4
This line says it all: "It seems perverse that Franken could be on his way out of the Senate while Moore might be on his way in."
Even more, it would be beyond absurd for serial predator Donald Trump to remain in office, while Franken resigned partly under pressure from Trump himself. I think Franken does deserve to twist in the wind some, but his misdeeds do not merit his resignation. He admitted his transgressions and apologized. This is in striking contrast to the prominent conservatives who have been accused, all of whose actions were far more egregious: Trump, Ailes, O'Reilley, and Moore.
This is an “and also” situation, like anything else. Of course not all crimes or misdeeds or mistakes are equivalent. I’m liberal and a feminist, but I’ve heard a disturbing lack of nuance in our arguments since Trump got elected, and conservatives are picking up on it.
And also, this is not a political issue. This is an issue in general. So watching people decide what to do about it based on what could happen to their party is infuriating.
And also, you could wind up getting rid of a person who has done some good things.
And also, you could make room for someone who isn’t a misogynist or perpetrator of sexual misconduct to step in and do the same good things. These people who are accused are not irreplaceable.
And also, the accused should be given due process.
Like deep cleaning a pantry, the house is gonna get messier before the closet gets cleaner. As a mother of daughters, I can live with that. Let’s throw open the doors, do the messy, have the conversations, make the nuanced decisions, and get cooking again better than ever.
1
I continue to be puzzled by the failure of the NYT to look behind the allegations of Ms. Tweeden and now Ms. Menz and provide the information readily available to a cub reporter and that placed the USO culture since the days of the Bob Hope tours in context. Pictures of Ms.Tweeden engaging in conduct that makes the Al Franken's picture pale in comparison. Why not run these pictures in a story? instead, it is far easier to falsely accuse the senator of "groping".
Then to suggest that he should remember one of the hundreds, if not thousands of pictures where he has posed at the fair and with constituents is ludicrous. Also, as pointed out in other posts, the picture, as well as the circumstances at the time the picture was taken, raise serious issues of credibility. Yet Ms. Goldberg and others are ignoring these facts and agonizing over whether the senator should resign.
2
Thank you, Michelle Goldberg, for laying out so cogently the dillemma of those of us who supported Bill Clinton and continue to support Al Franken. Bill Clinton became President 25 years ago. Attitudes were different then. I, for one, believed that the accusations against him were political. Some were, but others now appear credible. His dalliance with Ms. Lewinsky, although the height of sleeze, was consensual. Far from being a victim, she was herself a sexual predator according to college friends quoted in our local paper as having said Lewinsky told them she was going to Washington to get her presidential knee pads. In Al Franken's case, the women were adults and capable of looking out for themselves rather than victims at his mercy due to the need for a job. Charlie Rose's behavior, on the other hand, appears to have been on a moral par with Harvey Weinstein, donald trump and Roy Moore. This is not a problem of liberals or conservatives. It is a problem of men and women. In condemning one man over another, I ask myself whether the offense is outweighed by socially redeeming value. The answer is a definite yes for Franken, a not as definite yes for Clinton and a resounding no for trump, Weinstein and Moore. We make a mistake as women and as a society if we fail to make that distinction.
1
The question of "socially redeeming value" (a debatable issue all by itself) aside, the fact that Ms. Lewinsky might or might not have wanted to have sex with President Clinton is irrelevant. He was the one in the position of power. He was significantly older and presumably more worldly-wise. He could have chosen to ignore whatever encouragement she was giving him. He didn't.
1
I didn't say he wasn't more culpable, only that she set out to do exactly what she did. That makes her much less a victim than those abused by trump, Weinstein and Moore.
GL, I pretty much agree with your whole comment. What Al franken did is not even close to what the others did. Moreover he apologized for it and his victim accepted it. However an impartial observer may ask, if we can let the voters decide on AL Franken then why not let them decide on Roy Moore, indeed they did for Mr. Orange.
I've watched female clergy defend Roy Moore and Trump and I'm left shaking my head. Republicans have become party first and whatever miscreants this may include and then maybe issues after.
2
#metoo is officially being weaponized. Notice nobody's talking about Roy Moore and his propensity to hit on teenagers anymore. We are talking about Al Franken, then we are talking about currently untouchable Donald Trump... now we are talking about Charlie Rose. Let's not pretend this wasn't planned.
Let's make a bet. Next week or the week following, when the Charlie Rose story is waning, it'll be another politician or famous politically connected person. It'll be a democrat or someone famous associated with liberal views. Roy Moore will limp across the finish line, win his election and Senate Republicans will either accept him or discard him immediately to initiate a new election with a better candidate which will retain Republican control of the seat. This is exactly how Clinton was treated and why Trump limped across the finish line, winning by keeping wavering Republicans in line. Trickle out news which put liberals or wavering allies in continuous cognitive dissonance. It apparently works. Liberals and liberal newspapers can't help themselves.
1
The "Left" is having a riot in its own house. Since they can't reach their enemies, they'll destroy each other.
This isn't a defense of Sen. Franken, but ruining your own house has its own negative consequences.
4
The revisionism has begun.
3
Indeed there are Stalinist overtones to this whole zeitgeist ...
This is way too binary. The third option is to use this as a teachable moment. We're facing an epidemic of revelations of sexual misconduct and there's going to be a tomorrow. What should tomorrow look like? Doubling down a la Trump and Moore or acceptance and apology? Doubling down doesn't change the dynamic, guys learn the way to deal with such a situation is to stonewall. But admitting the fault and asking for forgiveness is both difficult for the perpetrator and at least cathartic for the victim. The most important thing Dems can do is to show how, once there's disclosure that falls below the threshold of criminality, there can be redemption. We need that.
138
Best comment I’ve seen yet.
1
Ms. Goldberg seems to have caught a case of Republican Disease: fire, aim, ready. While I'm gratified to see her trying to walk it back, I expected more from somebody of her intellect and intuition.
Who among us is not flawed? In today's climate of black versus white, meant politically in this case, is there no more room for understanding within the gray area between the extremes? Along with the wisdom of knowing that there is such a gray area, we have to understand that some among us are worse than others. Those are the ones we need to root out first. Personally, I am not willing to tear Al Franken out of the Senate by the roots until such time as Donald Trump, Roy Moore, and others of their deplorable opinions and actions have been removed from the scene. This is not to say that all liberals get a pass while all conservatives do not. For example, I totally disagree with most of Mike Pence's positions, but he lives his life honestly in accordance with them. Senator Franken has shown remorse and I believe him; others like Trump and Moore have not. While calling out sexual malfeasance and gender inequality are absolutely important, looking pragmatically at our country at this moment, there are bigger fish to fry, whale-sized items like saving our country from demagoguery and staying out of World War III.
1
Glad that Michelle recognizes that we're creating false equivalences, conflating the Moore's with men like Franken. Two different universes as our criminal codes will attest. Franken committed if anything a battery, an unwanted touching, that very rarely results in criminal charges. Moore has committed felonies anywhere from statutory rape, to child abuse, to other sexual offenses depending on state law. Plus, Michelle is caught in a trap many national journalists fall into of reacting only to "celebrity" incidents which tend to fill the public's hunger for salacious gossip rather than any campaign for real cultural change. Michelle would do well for her cause to concentrate on main street, and follow up with recommendations that would enhance reforms.
Perhaps there's a middle ground between holding Senator Franken responsible and letting him off the hook completely -- some appropriate response short of forcing his resignation. Having him announce a plan to resign after certain important votes have passed? Or that he will not run again for the Senate but will stay until his term expires? SOMEthing other than only black-and-white, binary choices.
The explosion of outrage we're witnessing is understandable, given how long women have been subjected to untrammeled "boys-will-be-boys" attitudes toward unwanted sexual advances. But this opportunity to spotlight abuse seems to be turning into a kind of feeding frenzy that threatens to decimate the more responsible men -- the repentant sinners, as it were -- while leaving the genuine misogynists in power.
(Our society is so confused and hypocritical about sexual relations that male sexual aggression is encouraged as often as it is condemned, with little acknowledgment of the need for providing young men, and women, with a genuine, sane education about sex, love, and intimacy. But that's another topic.)
If the Democrats force Al Franken to resign, they will once again be bringing a butter knife to a sword fight. The Democrats will be wounded by the loss of a great senator, and the Republicans won’t even break their stride. Taking a principled position doesn’t mean much when the other side has no principles.
If Judge Moore wins his election to the senate, all the high-sounding talk about censure and eviction will fall away in the interest of preserving the Republicans’ majority status. They will somehow discover, post-election, that Moore might be someone they can work with after all.
If Senator Franken chooses to resign, it should only be after the Ethics Committee has done its work, and after both Trump and Moore have resigned. Besides, I'm inclined to believe that Franken was targeted by a woman with close connections to the Hannity/Fox News/Bannon enterprise. Create a diversion with a small story that takes our eyes off the big story. That has been the operating mode of the Trump administration all along.
In today’s ugly political landscape, the side the leads with principles is the side that loses.
Gosh, how did I become so cynical? Why haven’t you?
1
It occurs to me that Donald Trump and Steve Bannon may be reveling in this public debate. To the extent that the issue becomes "zero tolerance" and the allegations of accusers (male and female) are treated as the unequivocal voice of "justice" we are in danger of Robespierre. "Progress" towards gender equality in the workplace is in danger of lurching into blind intolerance.
To the extent that fissures between the genders can be expanded to become the focus of media attention other political issues are disregarded to the delight of the Administration. Even more to their delight is the prospect of a gender war. To the extent that males as a class are crudely identified as "victimizers" we are all Donald Trump; the only difference being that he is vulgar enough to brag about it.
Sexual relations are complex amalgams of various conscious and unconscious motivations and rationales, which evolve over the lifetimes of individuals. The amalgam of sexual impulses for both genders may include elements of power as well as "affection" and "affirmation" (hence the "missionary position"). That older men (dimly aware of their waning physical attractiveness) may seek to show off their "power" as a substitute for that loss of youth is hardly new to our age. Charley Rose was a pathetic self-deluded fool to believe that the younger women he sought shared his feelings; in this regard he is no different than Donald and Melania.
2
Yet the First Couple are a couple...With a child that is so obviously the natural son of the President...This fact rebuts your argument...
The fact that they have a child is not dispositive proof as to Melania's inner feelings toward this older male. This is the stuff of comic opera.
Franken need only reply when asked about resigning, "I'll resign when President Trump resigns." Period.
I had an epiphany. Sexual assault is more about power than sex. After the election, the women who accused Donald Trump went dark. The president is the most powerful... blah, blah, blah.
But after observing Donald in office, we all see how hapless, inconsistent, uncertain, indecent and incompetent he really is. Power is exposed as a shell game that, like the emperor's clothes, lasts only as long as we all agree.
When women accuse men in power of sexual predation, the men lose that veneer of authority. The women feel empowered.
Just don't abuse it.
This is the problem we, as liberals will continue to have. When you have 2 people accused of the same thing, yet you feel like giving a pass to one because of his/her politics, but want to come down like a ton of bricks on the other because of theirs. No matter what the severity is, in the end what Trump is accused of and what Franken is accused of is the same thing. Except with Franken there is picture proof. Multiple pictures, in fact. With Trump, even the allegations printed in this paper during the campaign have never amounted to anything because the women claim that the NYT misquoted or too their statements out of context.
We have to stop sticking the knives into our own backs over and over.
The list of people who've been linked or accused of sexual misconduct is very long. On the right you have Ailes, O'reilly, Trump and Moore. On the left you have the rest of the list.
It is high time we stop giving a pass to anyone. Let's get them all out and start fresh. Let's get some smart women on the ticket and get them elected and let's get this mess cleaned up.
No more passes for anyone!
1
Can it possibly be that the author (and journalist!) is a victim of her own cadre's unwillingness to look at the whole picture? She seems to believe it was only the picture and that the one time offence can be forgiven. But the allegations are stronger than that and the two week extended humiliation and constant harassment seem to be willfully ignored. Sure Franken is valuable to Democrats, but Moore is valuable to Republicans. If you can qualify the heck out of Franken, you can do the same for Moore. And then you have to do the same for Clinton, and Kennedy, (s) and Rose, and Thrush, and Weinstein, and Cosby. If you declare a detente for some, you have to declare a detente for all. There is no other way to reasonably excuse some yet not others.
1
If and when Trump goes, then others should follow.
Ms. Golberg, as well as many commenters here, could've saved a lot of words by simply saying that, to them, sexual assault/harrassment is ok as long as the perpetrator shares their politics. Simple. Anything additional is just rationalizing.
1
Great article, thank you. The question that has plagued me lately is what we do with artists whose work we love after they've been accused of sexual assault.
Do I have a moral obligation to stop watching/loving the work of Jeffrey Tambor, Kevin Spacey, Woody Allen, Louis CK?
Do I stop watching Warner Brothers movies because Jack Warner was a predatory louse? Do I stop loving Picasso? At what point can we separate the man/men from their body of work?
Nobody ever said that artists need to be good people and many of them aren't. So when an artist has a clear and singular voice like Roman Polanski do I have a moral obligation to never watch Chinatown, Rosemary's Baby or The Pianist again?
As a theater director, much of Woody Allen's early/mid-career work shaped my aesthetic sensibilities. Transparent and House of Cards are some of my favorite shows. Despite his most recent and deeply disturbing film, "I Love You, Daddy", Louis CK has had an enormous cultural impact and supported the work of many women writers, directors, and producers. Do I now erase the impact their work has had on me?
As a woman who has had a long career in the arts, I have experienced sexual assault/harassment. I know all too well the fear of speaking up because I would risk losing a job.
Perhaps these questions are naive and there is a clear moral imperative when approaching the work of these artists. I, for one, haven't come to grips with the answers to these painful questions.
75
No one can make that call. I still read books by Orson Scott Card, despite the fact the man is a card carrying member of the Tin Foil Hat Brigade. I read Robert Heinlein despite the fact that he was a hypocritical Libertarian who railed against social programs despite the fact that he depended upon them at a crucial level earlier in his life. I've enjoyed Clint Eastwood's work and still do despite his idiotic empty chair stunt at the last Republican Convention.
We have to stop expecting the people we admire to be perfect. We can admire them for their greatness and criticise them for their jerk moments.
3
For once I would like to see the women of America treat these men as though they are as expendable as they way they have treated the women in their workplace sphere.
The message needs to be "You are replaceable", and not "you're so precious and we can't possibly lose you to the other side, so we'll put up with your bad behavior".
The latter is why they do it in the first place.
1
Please, before we consider casting Al Franken, a highly respected senator, into the outer darkness, watch USO 2006 on youtube. It's a video of the USO show that Franken, Tweeden, and others brought to the troops, and will give much-needed perspective to this issue. Franken's rather silly sight gag of a photo (his hands aren't touching her, he's mugging for the camera, and she' wearing both a flak jacket and a helmet while purportedly asleep) is more than matched in by Tweed's grinding against the guitar player, jumping Robin Williams and in general sexualizing her every stage encounter with a man. That was the atmosphere of the tour. Franken is not a sexual predator. As to the woman he purportedly groped at the Minnesota State Fair in front of her husband-- why is everyone so sure that hers is the correct version of the story?
332
Very important—what you say here. Can you share the link?
Your reasoning about Al Franken, Ms. Muse, sounds a bit like the kid's
whine, "Well, Johnny was doing it, too!"
Atmosphere of the tour or not, Franken behaved piggishly. It wasn't a "silly sight gag," it was crude and ugly. And leaves us with little doubt that he behaved that way at other times,
Yeah, she asked for it!
Seems that we i.e. all of us, need to keep in mind that we are ALL capable of disrespect, assault, ill-humor and bad judgement etc. It is not just a male issue. Women are just as capable, and do wrongs as easily as men. It is part and parcel of the human animal. Yes, it does seem that one gender is more prone than another. But yes, bothsiderism.
To blindly believe known FOX contributors, without cynicism, much less critical thinking, is asking to be a mark and grifted.
https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/931578979298967554
Note the new news that Ms. Tweeden meet for weeks with fellow conspirators as to ways to bring down Democrats and help Conservatives. We now know how Roger Stone, Hannity and other Rat fudgers had access to the breaking story. This from a woman who fed the Birther conspiracy on TV along with the lies about Shirley Sherrod. Not to slut-shame, (because I don't have any issues with said actions) but the shenanigans and antics perpetrated during the USO shows past and present by Ms. Tweeden seem to cast her outrage as weak sauce in light of her own actions. The double standard is just hypocrisy.
Ms. Goldberg, I do understand the contradictory nature of these ongoing events. BUT... there are gray areas and not all people should be believed. Regardless of sex and or motives. Known political operatives need more scrutiny.
1
Jury in. Al is a sexual predator. He is slimy. He is creepy. Who gropes Arianna Huffington? That was so offensive. Why is NYT's concealing that picture? He has to go. As long as he is there. no high ground for democrats against Trump.
1
Umm, pretty sure that Ariana is quite capable of speaking up for herself, so there's not problem unless she says there is one.
this is absurd. Senator Franken admitted to taking a campy photo that was part of a larger USO tour, filled with mutual silliness. For those who've called that picture inexcusable, gross, etc., give me a break, think of the context. He could take that picture today, with my wife as the subject, and it'd be funny, not gross. He wasn't touching her.
He has in no way admitted to a creepy french kiss or the second groping, yet so many are commenting as if he admitted to the kiss or act as if the second allegation is even more damning. I say let's not rush to judgement.
1
This groping initiative - OMG! He touched her butt! - does have more than one upside. It’s taken Russia off the front page; just as we have gotten at least a short reprieve from “this racist nation” narratives, Confederate monuments, slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, and white supremacy, and all the other horrors of life in America while the press sermonizes about men patting woman on the behind and touching their breasts.
Yup. At least we’re back to everyone’s favorite subject: Sex! Yeah, baby!
2
Grabbing butts must be catchy (no pun intended) because Ms. Tweedon has been grabbing them for years (just google it). So I am wondering if it’s ok for a crude woman like her to do that to someone who is not expecting it without at least a mention of it in the media? Al Franken was being stupid. Roy Moore is a pedophile. There is a difference with distinction.
3
The lesson being taught by Trump is to lie and deny. Honesty has no place in American society. We should also refuse to paint all with the same brush. If a guy squeezes my butt during a very public picture event, I have the strength to tell him to buzz off. I shouldn't feel helpless and powerless. Are we telling women that they have no agency, no power when we take such huge offense to a relatively harmless act?
1
You saw the beautiful smile on the face of the woman who at the very same moment knew he was grabbing her butt! And she did not move his hand away or wiggle out of the posed photo. And she didn’t even know him personally. So her smile and the closeness of her cheek to his is supposed to constitute proof at that very moment, she was offended, insulted, demeaned, and disgusted when his hand allegedly groped her behind ! REALLY? At a fairground years ago when he probably posed for thousands of similar photos over the years with total strangers, yet, you the Progressive commentator, called his response to this accusation—lame??? This accusation of implied sexual abuse which is disproven by the very same photograph. Excuse us the gullible public, but hasn’t this gone far, far away from Roy Moore’s sexual molestation of a child or Harvey Weinstein’s systematic abuse of 90 women! And, BTW have you seen the videos on twitter of all the sexually suggestive play acting in front of thousands of troops by Senator Franken’s other alleged accuser during those military “tours” to amuse the young men? I believe you owe us all an apology because Roger Stone is having the last laugh and Al Franken’s reputation is in shatters.
2
This argument is framed the wrong way. This is not an issue about unsolicited intimate touching so much as it is about abuse of power with implicit threats of violence and retribution. Roy Moore used of his position as District Attorney to silence the young girls he molested. Harvey Weinstein used his position as a media mogul with even more perverse aggression.
On the other hand, Al Franken's butt grab was made without an implicit threat. The woman could have easily slapped him in the face or elbowed him in the ribs. Instead she did the next best thing and posted the incident on Facebook. After having a kiss forced on her during the USO tour, Leann Tweeden threatened Franken and he backed off. The puerile photo was not sexual assault. It was a juvenile joke (she was wearing a flak jacket).
How does Donald Trump look under this paradigm? Removing partisan glasses, the hard truth is that Trump's behavior falls more to the Franken side of the road. Meanwhile, uncomfortable as it is to say, the behavior of Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton belongs in the same level of Hell as Alabama DA Roy Moore, perhaps even lower then the DA.
None of this makes for good politicking. That's as it should be. Sexual assault is nonpartisan.
80
This comment and it's parsing of men's sexual behavior with women seems to ignore one important factor. There is a major difference between behavior that is consensual and behavior that is forced upon women. In Bill Clinton's case, I think all of the claims of sexual involvement have been with women who consented to be with him and, often, loved him. That is totally different than raping women or seducing inexperienced, very young girls.
Before we destroy people's careers, we must consider the willingness of the people involved in sexual incidents. A man's unfaithfulness (or a woman's) to his spouse is a matter that is private between the couple; unfaithfulness is not against the law.
What is against the law is to force another person to have sex. That should be the grounds for being fired. And, random touches are too minor an infraction to be fired for; women and men are capable of saying no to what they don't want.
2
Your comment made sense until you declared that Moore’s predations on young teenage girls and Trump’s behaviour, allegedly including rape, is worse than Clinton’s consensual liaison with a foolish but adult young woman!
1
Nope Trump falls to the Moore side. Walking into ladies' rooms where woman are naked just because you are rich. Groping women and making passes at women just because you think you can is assault and harassment. Trump is a harasser and has admitted to assault. Agree that Clinton may well belong on the Moore continuum. Franken is nothing like that. Franken is clearly a lightning rod for both left and right but harasser? Ha ha. There's nothing for him to resign over except the insanity of the American people right now. We have utterly jumped the shark if he resigns and Trump and Moore don't.
3
I have to ask how you reacted after seeing a video clip of Ms. Tweeden kissing Robin Williams and throwing her right leg up and around Mr. Williams’ back and buttock. I would consider that good hearted fun with Robin. Mr. Franken is a known prankster. We’re in the midst of a serious and long overdue reckoning with sexually abusive men and I fully support that. My wife and I can both say “#MeToo”. But we have to be careful on this very slippery slope. “If you’re a hammer, everything’s a nail” mentality cannot drive this issue.
3
This column is less shrill and more in line with how lot's of us are grappling with Al's dilemma. I err on the side of staying put. First I examine the evidence: it's not compelling for making a sexual predator case by any standard. He pantomimed touching her breasts, and the "kiss" was in the script they were rehearsing...The second person, Ms. Menz alleges groping of her butt in front of her husband, then telling her husband and making a FB entry. Could she have been mistaken?. Could she have mistook his actions at 5'6" to be simply placing his hand in the wrong place? It seems neither person is asking for him to resign. And why the delay in reporting it? This is not the kind of stuff we want to set the precedent for ending a career. So, I give Al a pass. Let him get back to work. Moore, Weinstein, Spacey, Rose, Halperin?, ...Now they are the ones that need to be put on Devil's Island...Let's not make Franken collateral damage...
The GOP love nothing more than the self-flagellation we Dems have raised to high art.
We need to get over ourselves. Franken's accusers are not credible. Tweeden, who clearly understands bad taste, is a Fox shill and the other woman has got to be kidding. It took her seven years to remember her butt was grabbed in front of her husband? Please.
7
Trump and Moore are simply bad human beings, for many reasons, and they also sexually abused several women and at least one child that we know of. Al Franken is a really good person who did a stupid not-funny prank when he was a comedian. I don't really put much belief in the 'he grabbed my butt during a photo op' claim. Those situations are awkward, simply slap him (so what if he's a senator); he'd get the message and you'd both hopefully laugh about it. I've been in those situations many times. Grown women can deal with them, children can't. Point is, Al Franken's indiscretions aren't close to Trump's and Moore's. He has apologized, and his apology has been accepted. End of story.
6
I am relieved to read of the author's rethinking her earlier stance. We all need to be as ready to revise our opinions based on new facts or sometimes just new analysis of existing facts.
Two forms of sexual misconduct are esp bad. in quid pro quo, the predator is leveraging economic advantage to secure sexual favors. In sexual battery, the predator uses his physical power to rape the victim, but forms of sexual battery
that do not involve penetration are also esp bad when the other person is unable to give consent due to the fact that the victim is a child, aged, intellectually or physically disabled, or even asleep or sedated.
The USO incident bears a superficial resemblance to the sleeping victim form of serious sexual misconduct except that Franken wasn't serious. He was clowning for a camera. His behavior disrespected the woman, the same way a standup comic might disrespect an audience member by singling him out in a routine. I don't know the context of the tongue in the mouth, but from all accounts this incident likewise was not part of an attempt to secure sexual gratification, but rather was the clown, clowning.
Re the second incident, I've never had anyone grab my butt me so I can't say how it feels, days, weeks or months later. I can't imagine if Franken grabbed mine that I'd like it, but I'd just figure he's a jerk who votes right in the Senate. I know for sure that I wouldn't overthink it because I've got better things to do.
4
Your denunciation of Franken last week, demanding he resign, was absurd. This is column, while more nuanced, assumes something very important, namely the absolute belief that both women were telling the truth and how we must proceed from there. You finally askmowlege that Franken was not actually groping Tweeden but fail to achnowlege that in the same show she grabbed the butt of the guitarist and humped a soldier and Robin Williams, all in jest. Certainly given those facts was Franken's mock groping and kiss as traumatic as she claimed? Why also did Trump's ally Roger Sone aware of these allegations before they were made public? Was your over reaction not exactly what Trump, Stone and Hannity, where Tweeden is a frequent guest not exactly what they wanted?
This latest accusation is similar, This woman asked Franken, a newly elected senator, to pose for the photo? Why would he choose that time, in a busy place, With her husband and father present, to grab her butt?it makes no sense.
Perhaps instead of using your column to continue to denigrate the senator, you could investigate if these allegation are true. If not, who is behind them and why? That would not only benefit your reputation as a serious columnist, but also Senator Franken and his constituents and millions of supporters.
10
Thank you Ms. Goldberg, for your courage to share your second thoughts about Al Franken's behavior. The picture shows him play-acting a groper, including the leering grin, he was not being a groper. Just like the actor play-acting a villain is not actually a villain. Context matters too, and the context of a tour like Franken and Tweeden were on, doing shows for soldiers on duty, is traditionally a sexually charged context. Tweeden herself appears in a video suddenly wrapping a leg around Robin Williams and slapping his butt. Was that planned and consented to by Williams, or a spontaneous action by Tweeden? That video and photo were out there for years - why now the outrage? Same for the Menz accusation. She writes on Facebook she was "TOTALLY molested" (caps Menz's), which I think is very exaggerated for a butt-squeeze, if that's what happened. I'd reserve that for much more serious acts. Both events were very public and out there for years, that's why I doubt Franken's accusers, but not Charlie Rose's, Weinstein's, or Moore's, who typically cornered their targets where they were alone with them and could deny what happened and threaten them with repercussions for their careers if they went public or sued. Franken's alleged unwanted kiss may fall in that category, but can we believe Tweeden if she said the photo was proof she was groped, while it shows she wasn't? She doesn't look unconscious to me, she wasn't hit on the head or zonked out on drugs...
2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have daughters, wife, sisters. I think any sexual assault is abhorrent. Of course I want every one guilty punished under the law. But I cannot reconcile my feelings with the reality in which:
a. The values voter, the moral majority, the religious nut who owns guns, favors segregation, thinks of women as second class, who now now smug in the knowledge that it is because of him/her that Trump is in power, and is plain "doing" it to all the people they don't like.
b. It is the values voted, the religious person, the gun owning bible thumper who has no problem with Moore the Pedophile, the ***** grabber-in-chief. But of course, they totally agree that it is all Hillary's fault, and Franken should be burnt on the stake (and this morning, Charlie Rose).
c. The left cannot say much in the way of, "if proven guilty . . ." No questions about a doctored photograph. No question about lying people. Just plain mea culpa, surrender.
This is called bringing a nerf ball to a gun fight.
And it is a gun fight (see gerrymandering, voter suppression, efforts to suppress votes of all those who do not vote republican, and the current war against the middle class, the poor, the rural, non-christians, and non-whites).
The center left in America, with our heads in the wrong place, cannot see the reality for the way it is. Just, how we want it to be. Hence, we are in a self-righteous reactive mode, and we lose.
Kalidan
2
Like everyone else, I'm trying to come to an understanding of what is happening around us and failing miserably.
I see the Democratic and Republican responses falling into old patterns. Republicans keep their eye on their goals and overlook any considerations that might impede their progress toward reaching them, no matter how repulsive the act or the perpetrator. So they make their peace with Roy Moore, because he'll vote for tax cuts and, presumably, for dismantling SS and Medicare, which is next, according to Gary Cohn). (The "If true" crowd has gone silent as the charges against Moore have multiplied.)
Democrats, in contrast, get palpitations and demand moral purity, politics be damned. So they'll throw Franken overboard for a stupid, childish stunt and one unwelcome kiss (I am not defending this, but it's not quite child molestation, is it?).
Clearly, moral absolutism is the easiest, because it allows us to feel morally superior and to tie things up neatly with a bow. But as Bruno Gianelli said on The West Wing (my source of all wisdom), I'd prefer to run in the same race as everyone else. Until Republicans find that lost moral compass we all talk about, let's keep some perspective and leave the pearl clutching to the talking heads, okay? Dumping Franken, even though he'd be replaced by a Democrat, leaves Dems no options when the offense is even more serious (Conyers, for example--what on earth to do about him?).
Baby, meet bathwater.
3
It is time for the "politically correct" of the world to start separating fact from fiction. The campaign against Al is part of the Steve Bannon dirty tricks machine. Al was a comedian in 2006 and maybe the joke was a bit tasteless, he didn't belittle the woman or force her into an act because he had athoirity over her. The second accuser said he put his had on her butt during a phot. Many me do this naturally when asked to stand next to a woman in a photo. Again, Al did not force her because of his position over her into a compromising position. In both cases, if the women were so offended by his behavior, why didn't they just do what I would have done and smacked his face, the end. Maybe his actions crossed some line in someone's head, but there is no moral equivalent to this act and that of a a man in a position of authority, like Clarence Thomas, forcing himself on a subordinate. Lets look at this as what it really is, an attack by the right to hamper the discussion of real transgressions by people in power and to diminish Al's effectiveness in the Senate. We need to separate minor transgressions from true abuse of power by both men on the left and right.
3
Leave Al alone. First accusation is from a gal who has ties to FOX news and probably to the Republican Party. Clearly the picture that popped up out of the blue was a prank on the part of Franken. He is indeed a comedian and a damned good legislator. No evidence that he actually touched the lady and true sexual predators avoid cameras/photographs like the plague. The second accusation is from a gal who indicates she was at the fair to meet and greet politicians - she accuses Al and praises a Republican politician. Then a quote from that politician. Again, not a credible accuser. Does not pass my sniff test.
First, if we put every man under a microscope, there's Yukky things. People make mistakes and use poor judgement. Grow up and put on thinking caps.
The picture of Al Franken was pretty tasteless but how do we know that he place his hand on the other woman's butt with her husband taking the photo.
It's simply a false equivalency to say sex with a 14 year old, walking up to women and grabbing their genitals and walking around naked and masterbating and possible rape is the same.
This woman was at a State fair with plenty of others, her husband was right there. She could have swatted his hand away or said loudly, "Senator, your hand is on my butt."
She didn't work for him, he had no financial power over her. She was in a very public place with her spouse. And that's if it's true. But still in that case, at a crowded political event, if you brush up against someone and hit their breast, or butt, you can be accused and how can that be defended. We will not only diminish the horror of sexual harassment and assault.
Ladies, be smart about this. Don't let men dictate what we should be appalled at. Few men will be able to stand such scrutiny if the net covers all of them.
Democrats, grow a backbone. Tell the women in this country that if there is assault and harassment, see ya. But if it's not that, don't give up good men who are genuinely fighting for you rights. It will come back to bite. There is a gray area. Fight on Al
2
The real problem is that people treat all cases as binary.
There is no doubt people have flaws and may fall for temptations and indiscretions. Face it, even saints can hurt on occasions. Remember Mother Theresa, who was beyond reproach until she stuck to the conservative wing of the Catholic doctrine. And not all transgressions are the same.
So what did Al Franken do? Behave like a SNL writer? To people who grew up with even raunchier SNL skit? Arianna Huffington didn't think so. Obviously, this is not to excuse him. Or to minimized Ms Tweeden's or Ms Menz's displeasure.
Maureen Dowd brought up Bill Clinton in her column only to muddle the situation. Harassments and abuses are not to be confused with consensual activities.
A lapse of judgment is very different from hypocrisy or repeated offenders.
If you think in terms of allies and enemies, maybe you have not approach the case on its own merit and circumstance
2
Further complicating behavior at work is the fact that somewhere between thirty and sixty percent of all relationships begin there. At large companies I’ve worked for, someone’s spouse may have been working on the tenth floor while their ex was on twelve. Even among peers without direct supervisory power over one another, breakups could occasionally be ugly and impact the work environment. Power couples also inevitably formed, with natural tendencies to boost each other’s status whenever possible. Obviously, Weinstein-like predatory criminal behavior should always be intolerable. On the other hand, when the district manager’s assistant surprised me at a work party with an unsolicited, aggressive kiss, should I have filed a complaint? Hopefully, recent events expose more true predators for what they are. Once asked to go away, continuing aggressive behavior is unacceptable. Pursuit by those with direct power over another is also a thin line that shouldn’t be crossed. That said, every minor, often clumsy attempt at kindling romantic interest, whether in the office or out, can’t be settled in court. In a world where work often goes on 24x7 the challenges of workplace romance will only get more complicated to manage, not less. We are fooling ourselves if we think otherwise.
74
Yes, I've found this to be true and unsurprising. When you work 9, 10, 11 hour days and potentially weekends, the only place you meet people is in the office. And yes, there are clumsy attempts to start relationships among co-workers. And sometimes these relationships break up in spectacular and messy fashion. The big problem is we have to separate these relationships from sexual harassment and abuse. The two are very different. The #metoo campaign, at least in my opinion, has created a feeding frenzy, where all behaviors are lumped together. This is damaging, not only to the men caught up in the dragnet, but ultimately for women, who will not be hired for fear of future harassment claims.
1
You've brought up an interesting aspect of this issue that has been ignored...Many legitimate romances are kindled in the workplace...
1
Agree. And adults get to say no. The fact that Franken's accuser didn't say anything in that moment is ridiculous.
1
As a Minnesotan, I have long admired Al Franken’s principled commitment to many things I care about, including women’s rights and protecting the environment. He will study an issue in detail and ask the right questions so that he can effectively take a stand, as can be seen with his expert and articulate leadership on net neutrality. To all appearances, his family life is characterized by love and respect and is admirably lacking in drama. I think we need to consider the seriousness of allegations before reaching back in time to a different cultural moment and treating every instance of reported offensive behavior as unforgivable. I expect that Al Franken will want to atone for whatever he has done by standing up even more strongly for women and that we will be glad he stayed on.
282
If John Conyers remains in Congress, well then by all means Senator Franken should stay. He has good company. That Mr. Conyers may have used taxpayer funds to hire women chosen for sexual purposes totally disqualifies him from office, and if there is equal justice for government employees, he should be prosecuted.
2
There is a difference between slurs and facts.
I must say rather weak, Ms Goldberg, rather weak. Yes, I think not unreasonable to characterize the attempt as hypocritical.
2
Bill Maher answered your first response last week: we need to be able to tell one thing from another. Calling for Franken's head in the wake of revelations about a public skit rehearsal that got out of hand, especially when the woman accepted his apology, was something we might expect from Slate.
4
You cannot make these hair-trigger pronouncements, Michelle Goldberg, on the first blush of every "news" article. You.don't.have.all.the.facts.
The story is evolving. And the background and associates of the 'second woman' raise questions about her story.
There is a Senate Ethics Committee investigation, remember?
When the Washington Post released its story on Roy Moore, it was believable because it was deeply sourced. If Roy Moore really believes the story is untrue, he should bring the matter to Court.
Thank goodness judges don't take significant stands without evidence. Opinion writers shouldn't either, because there is such a thing as a smear, and in this charged political environment, we have heard "alternative facts" and 'news' that is really false.
7
@dorothy- what about the $17 million paid to settle cases in Congress? Are there any sitting Reps or Senators on that list? Don’t we have a right to know how our tax dollars are used? For what? To whom?
3
I hope somebody, somewhere, is paying attention to the tax bill and the budget reconciliation.
5
I know I'm moving off topic, but the real elephant in the room is Trump. After the Access Hollywood tape surfaced, something like 16 women came out of the woodwork to confirm that oh, yeah, he had groped and touched them with the wantonness of an out-of-control child in a toy store. Is it any wonder that he won't say anything about Roy Moore? I was surprised he had the temerity to tweet about Franken. The problem is that all of these discussions bring us, inevitably, back to Trump's own abusive history.
3
If you're in favor of gender equality and breaking down our patriarchic culture and society, then you won't be discovered groping anyone's behind or breasts, or even pretending to do so and communicating to the world that it's "funny". It's not funny. I don't care how many political values and policy ideas that I share with a politician if he's not on my side on the most basic thing- respecting men's AND women's bodies and minds. I'm sure there are plenty of capable women with similar political values who would do very well in Franken's Senate seat.
1