Our Congressmen who don't immediately ban "bump stocks" and require background checks for all gun purchases and transfers of ownership are accessories to murder. That gun owners are not held accountable to the expenses of gun ownership/gun carnage, which the society as a whole must bear, is also a crime.
5
because to many politicians are beholden to the NRA, a not so designated terrorist organization.
Once again your politicians will obficate, postpone, hold hearings, observe moments of silence, lower flags to half staff, shed crocodile tears and do anything EXCEPT take any meaningful action on semi-automatic assault weapons and high-capacity clips, and why? Ask the gun-manufacturers and their handmaiden the N.R.A.
2
Profiles in cowardice, brought to us by the NRA and feckless pols.
1
Amazing.
Why pass a legislation? The Republicans have the solution to the problem of gun violence: Prayer to God and miraculously the problem will disappear. No more gun violence.
2
Lord..the NRA indicated it wouldn't put up a fuss and Congress still gets all giggly and silly over anything to do with guns. The GOP is pathetic, gutless and not the GOP I once respected as a sane voice in a sometimes insane world. Now they are just a babbling fountain of nonsense, thanks to their chief spokesperson. He has all the best words.
1
Read what NRA said, not what NYT says NRA said. They said the supported BATFs review of their approval to sell bumpstocks under their existing jurisdiction to assess whether a mistake needs to be corrected.
Just a wild, Democrat guess: do you suppose the NRA was involved in the "slowdown"?
2
Reminds me of NY's Rep Carolyn McCarthy, who wanted to ban guns with various features, including barrel shrouds, which simply protect hands from hot gun barrels: "“I actually don’t know what a barrel shroud is. I’m assuming it’s a shoulder thing that goes up.” So NRA was at fault for working to prevent knee-jerk gun laws from being enacted before almost anyone knew what bumpstocks were? The gun control lobby never met a gun law they didn't like...
1
To me, the interesting thing about this is the fact that a significant majority of Americans favor reasonable gun control, no matter how you define it, but our politicians could not care less what we want or need. Gun control is similar in this respect to many other issues. For instance, most of us agree that we should not raise the federal deficit without good reason, and that taxes should be higher for the super rich than they are for the rest of us. Yet, the latest proposals the republicans have come up with regarding changes to the tax code would do exactly the opposite. We, the people, need new infrastructure, new bridges, new roads. We need better education for our children, and less expensive access to higher education for ourselves. We need to find a way to make basic healthcare available to everyone. Why is our government so dysfunctional and unresponsive?
How did we elect, to the highest office in the land, a man like Donald Trump? He who was almost universally despised before he became the alternative to HC. Who among even those who voted for him would have invited him over for Thanksgiving dinner, or allowed him to cut the line at the DMV, or volunteered to take a two day car ride across the country with the man, before he was elected? He is supposed to be dedicating himself to working for the good of us all! Does anybody believe that is what he is actually trying to do? How did we get here?
1
Isn't this the way things proceed in the U.S.? Become horrified by monstrous acts of crime and/or abuse of politics. Then amnesia or indolence set in. Same old story. It never changes.
2
As usual, the GOP will do nothing. They pass zero legislation intended to solve problems, as they do nothing but to criticize and push blame onto others. It’s usually the Dems, but for the bump stock, it’s the ATF.
And their campaign messaging works well to win elections, but for actual governing? Not so much.
2
Why are we even discussing banning bump-stocks when what needs to be banned are the bullets?
Nobody is going to get any of those guns back.
The one common denominator in all mass-shootings is easy access to live ammo.
The guns are already out there, but the ammo gets used up in target practice & goes bad/unreliable with age.
Don't sell any ammo without licensing, databasing, micro-marking & limiting. Large quantities of live ammo have absolutely no valid purpose outside a shooting range.
All this talk of gun-control is way too little way too late, those 300 million guns are never coming back.
Your only possible, practical & most effective option is to control the purchases of these cases of live shells & cartridges.
Force mass-shooters to find spent brass casings, cast/machine their own bullets, figure out the primer, grind & formulate their own powder & all these mass-shootings will go way down.
But trying to ban, limit or recall the hardware? Forget it. Cat out of bag on the gun part of this equation.
Guns don't kill people, Bullets kill people. So ban the bullets, not the bump-stocks.
3
The National Rifle Association and the Republican Party have replaced Zero Population Grpwth as the strongest, most effective advocates for fighting global warming, this by limiting the size of the population.
8
Not even ww2 reversed population growth...
1
"Yet Speaker Paul D. Ryan said he believes “a regulatory fix,” rather than legislation, is the correct way to take bump stocks off the market."
Ah yes, the Republicans and their love of "regulatory fixes" over legislation. LOL. Must be opposite day. Or at least hypocrisy day.
Coward.
8
Until Republicans start losing office seats over this issue, and maybe the tide is turning starting with the election results Tuesday, they won't convert from their gun loving ways.
4
Don't bet on any massive changes just because the Dems are (or will be) in power.
"The push has slowed" because the public only has room for one sensational story at a time. Haven't you noticed?
1
Until the GOP pays a political price for blindly obeying the NRA's every whim and kowtowing to it's every paranoid conspiracy fear, it will do just as it has. Nothing. Sad.
5
Last night was a great night for candidates winning who supported gun violence prevention. Phil Murphy of New Jersey put commons sense gun laws front and center on his platform. We will make change but it will be by changing Congress. Get out and Vote people.
1
The ATF position that the bump stock is not subject to regulation is outrageous.
The argument is that the stock is a "firearm part" and not actually the firearm, therefore they can't regulate it. That is like saying the barrel, the trigger, the sights, or the firing pin are "firearm parts" and not subject to regulation. Fact is, they are all components of a firearm, and are unquestionably within the purview of the ATF.
Looks like the ATF is now a wholly owned subsidiary of the NRA.
2
I envision a day in the not too distant future where we will have traffic, weather and mass shooting reports.
2
There is only one solution: vote these republicans the hell out of office.
6
At this point expect nothing from the GOP except more failed leadership. They are beyond horrible.
2
It's [past] time for every concerned citizen to write or call their representatives and demand funding for gun violence research, uniform requirements for owning a gun, including background checks for ALL guns sol and mandatory, gun safety training, and outlawing automatic weapons and the like. We are not a nation of Clint Eastwoods, we're a nation of fools. When something is not working then it's time to change.
3
I'm a gun enthusiast but NOT a gun nut. I was on a high school rifle team having learned to shoot a .22 at age 8 in Glens Falls NY. Sometimes in Boy Scouts we shot .22 rifles under strict instruction. I'm also a veteran (enlisted 1966) and have clear understanding of what high power, semi-auto and full auto weapons can do. In short, fired at humans, they are devastating. I'm also guilty of owning a Colt M4 AR 15. I like shooting tin cans or old vegetables. But, after this last tragedy I'm ready to sell or destroy my rifle. I don't want to give it up for sale only to learn that a nut case used it. I'm going to keep a couple of target pistols that I own and a Ruger 77/22 bolt action rifle as well as lever action 30-30. Its a deer rifle but as I'm now 70 I doubt that I need that either.
I'm disgusted by the people that insist that these weapons, including the so-called hunting rifles that are also semi-auto should be available to the general public. No, they shouldn't. Some bolt actions in heavy calibers with box magazines should also no longer be available. Evil minded people who know how can do equal damage with those type weapons as well.
I used to be an NRA member but no longer. And I certainly do not support Republican positions on little or no restrictions of firearms. They're no longer defensible. I know I can't change hearts and minds about guns. If people love them, they won't change. The haters too won't give any ground to legitimate users. But, I've changed.
12
Jay: I very much appreciate your post. I grew up hunting and shooting targets as well. And went through "Hunter's Safety Course", where our instructor (a local guy who worked at the saw mill), ranted every year that we as hunters should develop the skill necessary to accurately shoot a "normal" rifle (bolt action, lever action, etc.), rather than depending on the rapid fire abilities of a semi-automatic.
I still enjoy shooting very much. But, like you, think it is ridiculous to expect that Americans should have unfettered access to any manner of weaponry imaginable.
I picked up a copy of the NRA magazine "American Rifleman" the other day (in the waiting room of my wife's hairdresser, of all places), and read the opening piece by Wayne Lapierre...and was horrified. The hateful bile in his writing, directed at politicians who propose ANY regulation, should be horrifying to any American, regardless of political affiliation or their stance on gun control. If he has a reasoned opinion on the matter, and can present it in a cogent, respectful manner, swell! His hostile, unbending manner of discourse should automatically bar him from a seat in any negotiation.
I appreciate you speaking up, respectfully, with a reasoned point of view, based on your diverse experience. My only hope for positive change is more people like you doing so.
3
Thank you Jay. This is possibly the most sensible comment I have ever read from a gun owner.
1
If the NRA does not want to see legislation and a Republican majority will not buck them, what chance is there of any change? Just please don't tell me I am living in the greatest country in the world.
2
Republicans offered thoughts and prayers....
ACTION from these low lives would require a miracle of biblical proportions
2
This is very simple. The Gun is the God of the Republican Party. God is always Good. Anything having to do with God is Good. Therefore, how can we ever say that something that is part of a Gun can ever be bad? Why would we ever want to limit what is Good? Don't we want instead to have what is Good multiply and spread? Of course we do!
2
Do Republicans really want to run in 2018 as the party that couldn't even get bump stocks banned?
1
The N.R.A. and G.O.P. have replaced Z.P.G. as the strongest advocates for fighting global warming by limiting the size of the population.
2
This is a joke! If this ban ever happens (FAR from a certainty) it'll be a great PR move for the NRA and the right. Regardless, if you just look at the numbers, they sold a massive amount of them after Vegas. If ever enacted, there will probably be enough of a delay to sell even more.
I find this, (written by MAX FISHER and JOSH KELLER NYT NOV. 7, 2017) clarifying.
"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate,” Dan Hodges, a British journalist, wrote in a post on Twitter two years ago, referring to the 2012 attack that killed 20 young students at an elementary school in Connecticut. “Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.”
From "What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer." The Interpreter
2
Citizens who favor reasonable gun laws and expanding universal background checks but vote for GOP legislators who act otherwise are also complicit.
3
Well, one does not need to add any accessory to a semiautomatic rifle to simulate full auto fire. See video at the following link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RdAhTxyP64
Most rabid backers of the 2nd amendment operate based on the delusional fantasy that the only thing keeping our government in check and our various many freedoms intact is them and their ragtag collection of mock military armament. Ask any of them as they're out playing; they'll be glad to outline just how close we are to becoming a dictatorship save for their hobby-class AR15. It's nothing more than a child's fantasy world gloriously enabled by the NRA because it perpetuates the NRA and fills it's coffers.
Time to grow up, children. It's your vote, not your gun, that protects your freedoms. We have the most advanced, well-trained military in the world. If your government wanted to they would snatch you bald-headed in record time regardless of the number of shiny toys you have in your gun safe or the number of rounds you have hoarded or the "bump stock" you bought when you saw it on YouTube. You have become the most ignorant and easily manipulated marketing segment of all time, surpassing thirteen-year-old girls' love affairs with boy bands and eight-year-old boys' love of Marvel comic movies. And thanks to your abject ignorance the NRA still rakes in untold millions even after dispensing bribes across Congress like dew falling from the heavens.
And so the band continues to play and people continue to be murdered wholesale in their homes, their places of work and their places of worship.
2
No surprise here. I don't expect America to do anything sensible about gun control for quite awhile yet, and certainly not while Republicans are in power in all three federal branches of government.
It's clear what is going on with the mass shootings and numbers of gun deaths, America leads the world (excepting, alright, Yemen), because America has the most guns per capita of anyplace. Without such ease of access to guns, we wouldn't have these mass shootings.
But there's something in the American character, or certainly the conservative character, that demands ease of access to guns. Maybe it's the ethics brought about by watching too many mythological Western movies and idolizing John Wayne. Gangsta Rap also adds some mystique to the guy with the gun winning the day.
But whatever it is, we're stuck with it. So I can only be happy that I'm in NY, a state with better gun control than the average, and that I will likely never be involved in a mass shooting, or have members of my family gunned down. I feel badly for people in states like Texas, but if they don't want to get shot, they should get out of Texas.
2
Disgusting that this isn't a priority.
1
Not to worry, the Texas Governor said "working with God will stop mass killings" so we don't have to worry about the bump stocks.
4
Our "thoughts and prayers are with the GOP and the NRA." And may ihey do as much good as their pious platitudes do whenever there is another shooting.
9
"Thoughts and Prayers" has become a joke like the word "Hero" if you were any misfit or p that served in the Military.according to the right wing radio and TV personalities who never served an hour in any Service.
Another thing is "Thank you for your Service" I served almost 50 years ago and these programmed people that tell me , I just respond stop being a robot , I was Drafted an do not need to be thanked. Many of us did and experienced much more than the Lifers and the ones walking around with hats and badges of bygone days looking for recognition .
1
What'ch you gonna to do?
People will value the rights of a murderers and terrorists to commit murder, to protect the legal profits of the gun lords, more than they value the lives of their own children, are hopelessly deficient mentally.
In Afghanistan it makes sense that everyone has a gun.
But why do Americans model themselves on Afghanistan?
9
If helpless tiny children can be slaughtered without retribution for the gun lobby, if innocents attending a concert can be slaughtered without retribution for the gun lobby, if the devout can be slaughtered in church without retribution for the gun lobby, what does it say about the corrupted politicians who occupy our congress? It says they are CORRUPT.
22
Not only are they corrupt but worse they show their heartless immorality towards their fellow Americans. They do this to protect an organization and an industry that worships money and guns more than the lives of citizens.
2
The Republican Party has become the Despicable Party on so many levels in the age of Drumpf.
“Of all we loved and honored, naught
Save power remains;
A fallen angel’s pride of thought,
Still strong in chains.”
5
Already, within one day, #Texas was no longer one of the trending topics on Twitter. Within one day, any talk of 'the prior day's' mass murder becomes 'monotonous' and 'boring'. Been there, done that. What more is there to say? That is, until the next week's mass murder. Then it's all candlelight vigils, group hugs, thoughtsandprayers, prayersandthoughts, 'oh this is just horrible we must do something', blahblahblah.
I'm about to head downstairs from my Rock Center office to visit the Canadian Consulate. I have a grandfather that was born in Canada. I want to find out if I am eligible for a passport, should I decide to flee this terminally-ill country for a bit.
I don't want to take away anyone's guns or rifles? But their bumpstocks? Most definitely. Their A-Rs? Absolutely. Don't allow the sale of ballistic vests without three other vetted parties first confirming that the purchaser of the vest is not only a registered hunter, but that the person has demonstrated a proven interest in hunting? Of course. A limit on the amount of ammo one can purchase. And so on. Common sense regulation. That is all we want. You can have all the handguns and hunting rifles you want.
9
Before the last spent shell casing had hit the floor at that Texas church, Wayne la Pierre and his malignant NRA henchmen were on the phone to the NRA lobbyists and NRA puppets in Congress warning them not to utter one word--not one syllable--about gun control, now or ever. And they do not and they will not--ever.
11
Seriously, people. The rest of the world is more aghast at the USA mass murders and high homicide rate than its own citizens, it seems.
Guns in the hands of civilians are not about self defence: they are about murder. Contrary to the catchy phrase, it is actually guns that kill people as do knives, cars and so forth. But automatic guns kill scores of completely innocent and undeserving people, including children, at a time. At least start with withdrawing those. Start with a gun amnesty, call in all automatic guns and compensate businesses that deal in them.
Why does anyone need them for self defence? It is an old leftover from frontier times. Why is the N.R.A. so powerful that even Democratic Presidents have not been able to wind in gun ownership? The Second Amendment is an Amendment. It is not the 11th Commandment!
7
Of course. Congress has its moment of silence and recommends that we all pray to alleviate gun violence. Not to criticize the power of prayer, but we've had half the Christian congregations in the country praying for less gun violence. Based on the outcome, I'd say, "well it looks like God prefers an occasional massacre". Except that the Bible reserves imposition of violence to God himself. Maybe the concept of praying for guidance from God and then taking the idea that "God helps those that help themselves" to heart.
Having prayed, Congress needs to get up off its figurative behind and take some actual action or we're going to have more moments of silence and more prayer sessions next month and the month after.
5
The GOP proposed 105% federal tax credit on all purchases of bump stocks and semi-automatic long gun is moving forward, however.
3
For the Dems, this is just pre-election pandering. If they were willing to take on the gun lobby, they would have reinstated the assault weapons ban in 2009 when they had the chance. They take money from the gun manufacturers, too.
@Ed: You're right. Obama was very weak on this issue. It is one of the main failures of his administration. Still, today is not yesterday and action is necessary.
Not funny but laughable. What do you expect? We spend more on our military than the next 17? countries combined. We have 11 carrier groups. I think China has 1. It is impressive that we don't pursue global domination through military action. You can quibble that point but we don't have the overt colonial aspirations of earlier centuries. I have to admit that I rather like our situation. We rule. Militarily. How would you feel if China had 11 carrier groups and we didn't have any?
The trade off, of course, is a highly militarized population that is very familiar with military weapons and operations and tends to be poorly educated and ethically challenged and is stoked on fear by a plutocracy that is greedy and equally ethically challenged.
3
Agreed, but with all that money spent, when was the last time we won a war?
All the talk of banning bump stocks is well-meaning, but the evidence shows us there is something far more dangerous which has resulted in many more deaths than all the bump stocks put together: the much less sexy, much more common careless storage of weapons. In my state alone, some cities report gun theft rates up to twice what they were three years ago, with corresponding increases in shootings and gun crimes.
As the NRA and its supporters are quick to point out, criminals don't buy their guns legally, but instead steal them, and the easiest place to steal a gun from is a parked vehicle. Concealed carry brings people now carrying guns into the city, but people can't bring their precious guns into banks, public transport, schools, stadiums, etc. so they leave their guns under their car seats and in gloveboxes. Criminals know breaking a window and feeling around for a few seconds is a low-risk crime with a potentially excellent payoff when they find a poorly stored weapon. Next thing you know, that wonderful gun that was supposed to protect one and all from danger is now in the pocket of a rapist, a murderer or a robber, who might fire it at a citizen or a cop.
The benefits of banning bump stocks are going to be small, perhaps unmeasurable. In contrast, regulators can help reduce gun crime in a big way by requiring concealed carriers to store their guns locked in their car trunks, or in pickup trucks, in bolted-down lockboxes in the cabs.
8
I say we both follow your suggestions and ban bump stocks! We can do it, if we just make up our minds to do so. Most Americans think this is madness. We should not put up with this!
3
I disagree. Fully automatic weapons are illegal, unlike semi-automatics. A bump stock converts the latter into the former, making it orders of magnitude mode deadly. Even Paul Ryan questioned why they were allowed (though being in the GOP, that's probably all he'll do).
Banning "Bump Stocks" will do nothing for mass murders and shootings. A semi-automatic weapon can still do a lot of harm with a roomful of people or concert goers at a band concert. Then there recently was the push by the NRA for silencers on guns. How long would it take for people to realize there is a mass-shooter shooting at them?
America is gun-crazy with the second amendment! If you look at countries with gun control, there are hardly any mass shootings, but there are killings on small scales. This nevertheless is horrible.
If you go to Wikipedia below, you can see the different categories of gun control:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation
There has to be a stronger uprising of people against guns. Right now the NRA has much more say in the Senate and Congress than the opposing other side. Until that happens, it will be "guns as usual"!
7
Plain and Simple, the NRA owns our government. Bought and paid in full. It's time to vote against the NRA in 2018.
20
Of course it has slowed. Nothing will change unless significant numbers of important people start getting murdered; then, because it was never the right time to discuss sensible gun controls, the remedy will be to repeal the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all private guns.
6
This statement rings hollow. The Second Amendment will never be repealed, yet I and many others despite it. Nick Kristof has a very important message yesterday. It needs to be read by everyone.
3
And what well regulated militia did Kelly belong to?
1
Remember, these are the guys who after one of their own was shot on a baseball field, and despite having armed capitol hill police at the scene before and during the shooting, thought how it would have been better to have all carried guns to the baseball field. Scalise still would have been shot, the other 3 probably as well, they wouldn't have been playing while armed - nobody does that - and would not have had a chance to go for their heaters in their bags, but if they had, untrained people firing in a residential neighborhood does not sound like a good idea. Think about it - these are the guys who make decisions that affect all of us and they have very bad ideas, but some people love these dumb things they say and keep voting for them. What a sad country. They say it's the price of freedom despite all the other free countries who don't 'pay the price' of senseless deaths. There is no logic there either, yet people love to repeat that bumper sticker phrase.
15
"All about the Ruger AR-556: The half-priced AR-15 used by Texas gunman to massacre 26 in church shooting that can fire 30 rounds in FIVE seconds and was banned in US until 2004 ... The AR-556 is easy to modify and customize, with state laws allowing some users to have a magazine with a capacity of 50 rounds" (The Daily Mail) What legitimate purpose does such a weapon have for civilians?
5
Steve,
You don't know much about weapons, history or basic facts!
The Ruger AR-556 was introduced in 2009, five years after the ban ended.
New, out of the box, the Ruger AR-556 cannot fire 30 rounds in five seconds. An experienced shooter might be able to squeeze off 3 rounds per second for short periods. (Even with the use of a bump stock, you can't maintain a high rate of fire.)
You act as if a Ruger AR-556 is somehow more dangerous than any other semi-auto rifle. They are not!
A Ruger AR-556, like any other AR-15, is one of the most popular target rifles in the nation. The fact that it has a pistol grip and an adjustable stock makes it one of the safer rifles that new shooters can use. The one AR 556 allows a child, teenager, female and male of all sizes to adjust properly to their needs - which is why it is safer. Another consideration is the very low recoil.
Your post, like the other posts, only shows how little the anti-gun factions really know about weapons.
But I guess that ignorance is bliss!
There is no doubt that Democrats will gain the seats needed to pass their anti-gun agenda. So don't worry. Your dream will come true. Just keep in mind that when people with socialist leanings come to power, your other rights will be taken away as well... which history has shown time after time!
1
Oh, nuts. Any military unit could wipe out any number of gun nuts with their semi-auto popguns and their ball caps in about a quarter of an hour. It would be almost funny to watch.
Our rights are protected by the ballot box, not by guns.
1
"Even with the use of a bump stock, you can't maintain a high rate of fire."
The rest of your comment may be true but this is obviously false in light of what happened in Las Vegas. A bump stock turns a legal semi-automatic into the equivalent of a fully automatic. They should be banned.
And I do not mean that future manufacture/importation should be stopped, as the Brady law (temporarily) did to high-capacity magazines. Use or possession of a bump stock should be a federal crime, just like possession of heroin. There owners should be given a period to turn them in for compensation; after that they should be hunted down and imprisoned.
1
Using a word that Sen. Coons used this morning in a slightly different context, I now know how I think of most Republican politicians: not authentic. What is it that encourages them to lie when they know their lies are harmful, what is it that allows them to vote for things that they know don't effectuate what they claim, what is it that makes them so non-empathetic? I am an Independent and have been since I first voted, but in recent years (the Bushes excepted), I have not been able to vote for one Republican. This feels as bad as if not worse than 1968.
1
Don't think it will happen, given the NRA, lobbyists and the affection for firearms in this country.
4
I don't get it. I thought the Bureau of Tobacco and Firearms was a Federal agency in the Executive Branch that carries out the laws passed by
Congress and signed by the President. Of course, the ATF, like other agencies might be asked to offer advice on any problems involved in administering such a law, but isn't that the prerogative of the appropriate Congressional committee, not a lobbying groups such as the NRA?
2
Ok, ban the bump stock but include legislation overturning state and local laws against the right to carry. Won't happen though because Republicans in Congress are just Democrat light anymore.
The problem with the bump-stock legislation is that, if its passes people, will pretend something significant has been done to reduce mass shootings casualties and gun violence. The bump stock permits a semiautomatic rifle to fire rounds faster than a semiautomatic, but not as fast an automatic rifle. You can hear the difference between a bump-stock and a fully automatic on the videos of the Las Vegas shooting. Since the Las Vegas shooter was firing at a tightly packed crowd, it probably did increase the number of casualties, but not as much as people think. A shooter using a bump-stock in many scenarios would probably just waste more rounds. It might be less effective than semi-automatic.
2
Every citizen who wants to buy a firearm should have a license to do so. Before issuing the license the buyer must have a training certificate for the use of the gun he is purchasing. Also, he must have liability insurance for each gun he owns or attempts to own. If his gun is used in a crime the purchaser is liable. Then he can purchase a weapon. His license must be renewed every 5 years. If he sells the gun he must go to an outlet where the purchaser has to go through the same process to purchase that weapon.
No more public gun shows unless there are federal licensing outlets onsite.
Make sure the liability insurance is for each gun purchased making it prohibitive to buying multiple weapons.
It should be as extensive as buying a car. Why isn't it?
2
Why is there no concerted effort to fix the NICS background check system!!? Why isn't that front page news in the NY Times? There was an obvious failure of the existing background check system in the Texas Church shooting. The Obama administration utterly failed to enforce the law against prohibited persons who tried to purchase firearms. A lot more can be done now to make sure that more states update the Federal data base -- which must be used in every gun sale by a Federally licensed dealer (which is the vast majority of gun sales).
But no, gun prohibitionists like Diane ("Mr. and Mrs. America turn them in") Feinstein are only focused on new laws, more restrictions and making gun ownership anathema. If they were truly interested in saving lives, they'd first focus on fixing the laws already on the books. But that doesn't make for compelling political theater, does it?
Here's an idea: subsidize bump stocks so they are free in all red states. Tax them so they cost $100,000 each in blue states.
The NRA has such a firm control over the Republican party and Trump -- sad!
2
Congress is preoccupied with thoughts and prayers.
2
I just watched an FBI officer on CNN who said we all need to know how to protect ourselves from guns. Really? That's where we are as a country? We have to be careful of going out in public? That's a war zone. Pathetic.
3
An educated conversation so that the NRA can get the Congress to waste more time playing games while more people are senselessly murdered.
1
Maybe start small like with banning triggers on guns first before moving onto bigger parts. Then the gun lobby can still build and sell as many guns as they want. Sort of the same as sterilizing mosquitoes to slow down the spread of malaria.
1
A crucial point that I haven't seen mentioned is that bump stocks are just pieces of plastic. Even if outlawed, a motivated individual could just make one. Worst case they'd need a 3D printer. That said, sure ban them.
4
Ban them and enact strict penalties for possessing them, including serious jail time. Perfect? Nope. Better? Yes.
4
I'm a gun owner and supporter of the 2nd A. That said, I don't own an "assault rifle", having seen no need for one. I'm also aware that it's illegal to possess any fully automatic weapon without a special (and hard to get) Federal license. It makes absolutely no sense to me that anyone could possess a device that would subvert this law, thereby owning a firearm capable of full automatic fire. How difficult would it be to pass a law stating it is illegal to possess any device that would allow a firearm to be capable of full automatic fire? It seems we are incapable of passing even basic fundamental laws regarding firearms. Monty Python couldn't make up sketches this ridiculous. But our representatives can.
79
"Monty Python couldn't make up sketches this ridiculous. But our representatives can.". No, YOUR representatives can. My state's representatives have enacted strict laws on possession of assault rifles. I walk the streets more concerned about stubbing my toe than being a victim of a mass shooting. The NRA must be horrified about such nonchalance, that I won't rush to and buy a gun to protect against contrived threats.
2
The fact that one state legislature has enacted strict laws on possession of assault rifles leads me to two observations. First, the majority of other states have not done so and, second, criminals will have the same respect for your gun laws as they do the restrictions on illegal drugs.
They can't ban "any device" any more than they can ban "any substance" in regards to designer drugs. The chemical composition must be specified, so any tweak will make the "new" drug legal. That's my guess anyway, but I think "any devise or method" should be acceptable. But you know lawyers...
Again my native state leads > just search "Massachusetts becomes first state to ban bump stocks" MA now has probably the strictest (but not crazy) gun laws in the US and lowest gun fatality rate. I was trained in the military to use assault weapons to kill the enemy in war. I abhor the gun industry NRA alliance which is most about money and least about responsible citizenship. As a kid I was proud to be an NRA member, target shooting and hunting. Did you ever see Charlton Heston holding up an assault weapon, no it was a hunting rifle !
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Once again, the NRA exerts its power and influence over our legislative body. This is part of our anti-democratic process of allowing lobbyists to control politicians instead of politicians listening to the voters who elected them.
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gun lobby funding is 1/25th that of pharmaceuticals. It is the voters that give the NRA its power, not money.
Why no mention of the bill to eliminate restrictions on the sale of silencers that was pulled from a scheduled House vote when the Las Vegas mass killing occurred? What is its status now? Or is this not the right time to ask?
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I don't think outlawing bump stocks will save any more lives than outlawing guns or trucks which have also been used in recent mass murders.
How many mass murders with vehicles have we had here in the US in the last 12 months?
2
Why are we talking about bump stocks? There are other devices easily available that turn a semi automatic into what is effectively a machine gun. Why aren't we talking about a law that bans possession of any device capable of making any gun into a rapid fire gun? Let's say 10 years mandatory minimum, no parole.
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Please be more specific. What are these devices? Where can they be easily obtained?
Feinstein's bill isn't limited to bump stocks. It covers any device that converts a semi-automatic to an automatic firearm: “It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, possess a trigger crank, a bump fire device or any accessory that functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle.”
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
3
Thumb and a belt loop. Same effect as a bumpstock, cheaper, and really really difficult to ban.
Well-stocked with loaded high-capacity magazines, a mass shooter can do plenty of damage with a semi-automatic carbine. Why then the obsession with the bump stock? I think this has become a weathervane. Gun control proponents want to start somewhere, and this is grounds where they are likely to get consensus to build momentum for more laws. The NRA likewise thinks this is important as a symbol. If it loses this battle, then its whole house of cards might come tumbling down.
2
"Yet Speaker Paul D. Ryan said he believes 'a regulatory fix,' rather than legislation, is the correct way to take bump stocks off the market."
Once again (as in summer '16's half-hearted "non-endorsement endorsement" of Trump for president) Paul Ryan wants to give the illusion of standing for something, while not actually standing for something... except the interests of his benefactors. Banning bump stocks makes sense, and Ryan wields too much power for so spineless a man. I look forward to Randy "Ironstache" Bryce winning Ryan's seat in 2018.
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Part of the problem is that neither side wants to give an inch, and neither side trusts the other side to back away from their "crazyland" extreme ideas.
The NRA figures they can't afford one step down the "slippery slope" because it will end up with universal gun confiscation, which some want. The anti-gun folks are afraid that the NRA wants everyone carrying guns everywhere, all the time, even into schools, courts, banks, churches, buses, planes, and no limits on them at all, to have the weakest, least effect CCW permits be valid in ANY state.
So both sides have to make hard and firm commitments to back away from the crazyland stuff.
Liberals need to step away from the crazyland stuff of seizing all semi-automatic rifles, reducing magazine size to 5 rounds, forcing every gun owner to be subjected to home inspections (That's a 4th amendment violation, rather than a 2nd), even mandatory mental health evaluations at the citizen's cost. And some even ask "Why does ANYONE need a gun?"
OTOH, the NRA needs to recognize states' rights, that states with heavy permit requirements shouldn't have to allow permits from states where it's like a library card, their 21st century version of Dred Scott. They need to recognize that background checks, mandatory safety training, and limits on certain equipment (bump stocks) have to happen, as does good, solid research on gun violence and safety.
No more crazyland on either side, please!
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Bump stocks are not guns, so the manufacturers are not protected from lawsuits as are gun makers. So the relatives of the dead and injured can carry out a class action suit and thus drive the maufacturers out of business.
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They should be suing the Air Force who neglected to get the shooter into the federal database which would have, at the very least, made the shooter go underground to get his weapons.
They can sue the Air Force also. One does not exclude the other.
There are numerous on target comments to the US created horror. We all wait for the next and the next insanity.and trump is suggesting more guns. Considering the most recent bloody, deadly event in Texas, there was no time inside that church to stop the shooter, even if a victim carried a weapon. Perhaps buildings should have no windows through which to wage killings and a thick metal entry door. Common sense dictates numerous measures that may stall this morass, but alas, not a moment of wisdom or kindness.
“Right now everyone’s in a holding pattern, because some people around here have hope that A.T.F. will bail us out,”
This is strong evidence that Republicans never truly "backed" banning bump stocks or any other reasonable firearm regulation. Instead, the horrible carnage induced them to temporarily feign decency until the initial furor died down and the real deaths were once again off the front pages and TV screens.
3
The effort to ban bump stocks has slowed because Republicans are in control of the White House and both houses of Congress.
Republicans care more about abstract “gun rights” ideology than about common sense ways of protecting actual American lives from seriously troubled people with deadly weapons.
Events have shown over and over that, as things stand, no one and no where is safe from gun violence in this country.
3
Silly people, the GOP said it was "open" to banning bump which was how many hours ago??? 24 hours is sufficient to start moving away from an initial 'reasonable' statement regarding guns, and now its been weeks, the gun legislation equivalent of a century. Bottom line, they said what they had to at the time and haven't tried to get anything passed since, never intended to, using self-inflicted road blocks.
Even if bump stocks were to be banned, there are similar devices which would lead to arguments of "well, it's not the same device, therefore the law does not cover it" or minor changes to bump-stocks (put a decal of mickey mouse), call it 'shake-stocks' and argue it is not the same thing, no ban. We've seen this movie over and over. Moreover, such devices are only the tip of the iceberg of actual problems - 'openness' to banning them was merely a deflection from other aspects that could be regulated while still allowing people to hunt, target shoot, have the illusion of have self-protection, and join the national guard to guard against tyranny (the constitution's definition of a militia - well regulated, controlled by congress and the president).
So, if you want to help the families affected, send them more guns and vote to weaken regulations - that is obviously the answer.
It is very difficult to understand the mendacity of these so called legislators.
Even in the broadest of broad daylight, when it is possible to see the fine strings attached to their arms, heads and legs, they insist upon denying they are marionettes controlled by their Koch and NRA puppeteers.
Why our government does not work as it should is so absolutely clear to anyone who wishes to look.
5
The NRA will never see even the most modest attempt to insert some sanity into gun legislation as anything but “the thin edge of the wedge,” and our pusillanimous GOP legislators will always do their bidding. We are beyond the pale and deserve to be shunned by civilized countries for our gun madness.
2
If they get a bill to the floor that restricts the sale of a bump stock, it could become a target for amendments. You know what crazy amendments might come up, like limit the number of rounds in a magazine to 7 or require people to be sane, or include gun sales not done through a licensed dealer. Republicans pretend they care about fetuses but then sit back when children are gunned down at school, the movies, or a church. Deplorable.
13
Another mass shooting, a new round of calls for reasonable gun reform.
The voices of outrage over lack of comprehensive background checks and the availability of assault rifles and high capacity magazines are drowned out by gun lobby-owned lawmakers screaming "now is not the time to discuss gun laws". And the usual refrain from the nutcase wing of the gun lobby, "we need citizens everywhere to carry firearms to keep us all safe".
Eventually the conversation is abandoned to the satisfaction of the gun lobby.
It's Deja Vu all over again.
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The debate had herein ended: “In retrospect, Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate,” Dan Hodges, a British journalist, wrote on Twitter two years ago, referring to the 2012 attack that killed 20 young students at an elementary school in Connecticut. “Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.” quote from nyt
1
It is clear the gun debate is over. The NRA won the debate. Why? Because their understanding of how to manipulate American voters is so honed that even after Sandy Hook they were able to convince enough of the right people that the sacrifice of children was worth it if it protected their second amendment rights.
But please people who are in favour of sacrificing children for guns should stop with this “you are in my thoughts and prayers”. We all know the “you” refers to your guns and not the men, women and children slaughtered.
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It’s simple, really - the NRA views its mission as selling firearms. Frightened people tend to buy firearms. Thus, the NRA opposss anything that might make people feel safer - such as banning bump stock sales, a functioning background vhdck system, etc. Notice how their solution to everything is “buy more guns”?
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What hope does common sense gun control have if lawmakers won't even ban bump stocks, for which there is no legitimate purpose for members of the public. The madness goes on.
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Let’s be specific: mostly, it’s Republican lawmakers.
1
Because people would lose their precious bump stock manufacturing jobs.
6
The Republicans hope that the A.T.F. will "bail them out"? Bail them out of what? The answer is obvious: The wrath of the NRA.
Again the buck is passed. And that's ironic, because everyone knows this is all about "bucks." Literally.
No, the truth isn't that we need to "slow down the process and have an educated conversation." That's what everyone who profits from guns would like. We need the exact opposite: To stop talking and speed up the process. Otherwise the pattern continues: Horror, Talk, Nothing. Horror, Talk, Nothing. Repeat. And repeat again. We ought to be ashamed of ourselves.
25
The NRA merry-go-round: it’s either too soon to talk about putting the “well regulated” language in the Second Amendment into laws, or we need to have a long conversation that ends when the next shooting occurs.
4
Maybe we should try to stop the murders not what they are using to murder and stop thinking we are making a difference by doing it.
1
It was never pushed *seriously* by the GOP to begin with. They talked this for a while, for the same reason and in the same manner they Spend More Time With The Family for a bit.
It takes away some of the heat (as in controversy), without taking away any of the heat (as in guns).
13
There's no end to this US firearm madness. I have great career prospects here, but I feel I'll move back to Europe eventually and this is the main reason.
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One has to wonder what the reaction would be had the crazy shooter visited targets like some NRA conclave or perhaps Congress?
Just pondering a counterfactual...certainly not endorsing anything.
9
A shooter targeted Republican members of congress in June, nearly killing a member of the Republican leadership, and their position hasn't changed. The only way that we'll ever get meaningful national gun control legislation is if we elect a congress and a president who are willing to act in the public's interest on this issue. Expecting the NRA and NRA-backed elected officials to be part of the solution is simply naive.
1
They would never do that because someone could be armed.
It seems to me that it would be the price of liberty.
What we have to demand of our elected officials at this point is a buyback of all firearms that are capable of firing a large number of rounds in a short amount of time, destroy them, and ban their future sale. This includes semi-automatic firearms that could be modified to behave that way, but have not yet been modified. Accessories that can make non-automatic firearms behave like automatic weapons (e.g., trigger cranks, bump stocks) must also be bought back, destroyed, and banned. It'll be expensive and politically difficult, but we can't keep watching these massacres happen and have only thoughts and prayers to offer.
Call your Representatives and Senators and demand that they either write or sponsor legislation to do this. Call them every day; put pressure on them. If they refuse to address this issue, work with the local organization of your party to find a candidate that will take this issue seriously and work to solve this problem. We need to stop being the world's leader in homicides committed with guns - it's not a distinction we want.
12
Who needs a bump stock ban? Let's just overturn the 2nd Amendment and take away their guns.
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The 2nd Amendment need not be overturned. It just has to be interpreted correctly to mean that a militia need be well armed. It does not mean individuals. I know that the Supreme Court has relatively recently interpreted it to apply to the right of. individuals to bear arms.
It wouldn't be the first time the Court was wrong. Remember Plessy v Ferguson?
3
It's very simple, really. If bump stocks are allowed to proliferate, there will be more deaths than if the devices are banned. So, Congress, are you willing to stop a few killings?
11
The Las Vegas shooting already seems like old news, and the Orlando nightclub and Sandy Hook massacres are ancient history. The NRA knows that slow-walking any specific proposal such as the bump stock ban is a very effective strategy because it won't be long before there's another mass shooting that presents different issues and gets everyone looking in another direction.
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An assault weapons ban, bump stock restrictions, trigger locks etc. are all good ideas, but they fail to solve the problem: too many guns and a combative culture that wants to keep them. With over 300 million, the likelihood that guns will end up in the hands of the mentally ill or criminal element seems high, independent of what laws or regulations we create.
Of course, that paints a very dire picture, and certainly any new law should help. But when it doesn't right away, the gun lobby will simply point out, with some justification, that the restrictions have not helped. They will then regroup, rally their forces, and eventually overturn the new restriction. The assault weapons law passed under President Clinton that was then allowed to lapse away in recent years.
We have too many guns and a culture that idolizes them. That is a bad situation.
4
" 'No Way To Prevent This', Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens'
- The Onion
Ban the manufacture, importation, and possession of all high-capacity semi-automatic gun/ammo systems. Easy.
There is sometimes argument that because there are so many guns, such a ban would not work. While it fits the agenda of gun nuts, that analysis is incorrect; it will work. The percentage of owners who would not relinquish their illegal products is much, much smaller than they claim. It will work.
Every day, even more of these weapons are being manufactured and sold. All the more reason to act now to improve safety for the next generation.
1
Support the National Terrorist Association, the Guns Over People political party and the Idiot-In-Chief who said "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters."
Make Mass Murder Great Again: Trump-NRA-GOP 2017
Who needs Middle Eastern terrorists when white, male Christian public policy terrorists are helping 85 Americans die via gunshot every single day of the year ?
"Death To Americans !"....brought to you by the Republican party.
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This is one reason we can't have a rational discussion. Rep. Scalise's shooter was a Democrat. The Vegas and Texas shooters were non-religious and ardent atheist, respectively. There has never been a mass shooting by an NRA member. We can even change it from "gun control" to "gun safety" discussion, but nothing will happen as long as each group simply name calls & blames the other.
1
FrontRange....the 'shooters' don't make public policy.
Congress, the President, state legislatures, governors and their corporate paymasters make public policy.
And it is elected Republicans who have consistently favored gun anarchy over public safety.
Japan generally has close to zero gun deaths each year because they serious gun control and regard for public safety.
As long as Americans and their bribed representatives suffered 2nd Amendment Derangement Syndrome, 85 Americans will drop dead every day from gun 'free-dumb'.
One side doesn't want a rational discussion; they want more guns and bullets, and they are Republicans.
6
The bulk of those deaths are suicides.
I was 30' away from a suicide who jumped from a bridge... I suppose we need to ban bridges to prevent those kinds of deaths?
1
Here is a bump stock-banning bill lawmakers can support. Let's call it the "Extra Seconds to Run to Safety Act."
That's what we're talking about, aren't we? By slowing down the rate of fire, we will give our friends, family and fellow country men and women extra time to seek safety and cover. It may reduce the death toll.
The NRA is great at marketing. Its "Good Guy with a Gun," for instance. In contrast the gun control advocates seem like perpetual scolds. Let's change that. We can still make the point that the NRA lobbying positions energize mass murder in this country.
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