Neville Stephens confidently waiving the corporate tax code of appeasement that "should reduce profit-shifting overseas". Another historic hoodwink that will stick thickly to the most empty utterances of smug confidence.
Pretend like you might know how it goes down in Chinatown, Mr Stephens. The Government revenue experts actually want assurances written into code that capital will be repatriated and the flight risk ended. But, an Administration "genius" makes the ideological case for not stifling the stimulus nor complicating the code nor burdening the enforcement. So, the Government objectives are reduced to a promise of something and a handful of nothing.
This Republican Congress' proposal, if realized, will be THE ONE-TIME GREATEST reduction in corporate taxes. And if the DELIVERABLES remain unstated, the Republican Party will have that factoid added to their developing resume.
When IRONCLAD RULES for earning these dramatic corporate tax reductions ARE MISSING from the revised code, an even greater examination will commence. The days of empty suits skating-by on empty rhetoric about empty achievement are numbered. As of today, 364.
1
Under your Constitution there are laid out the means for amending it. You’ve done it to make the sale of alcohol illegal (o.k., that didn’t work out so good), you’ve done it to give the 50% of you who are female the vote (that’s worked out just fine) and, if the voters in the U.S. are genuinely dissatisfied with the human costs of the 2nd Amendment as written you could change it as well. Either do so or continue to live in a country where gun-related carnage, deaths, suicides, & injuries are common place.
2
"Gail: ... But my experience last week made me wonder if maybe
the victims deserve a little space where we can just think about
them, and the loss, before we throw ourselves into the fight."
A very little space indeed. Why even bring it up?
Media cover the dead count ad nauseum, but possibly even more
tragic are the wounded. The horribly maimed; disfigured;
mentally, physically, psychologically disabled; permanently
changed who often greatly outnumber the dead. Who pays
for their recovery? Who looks after them for weeks, months,
years? Who provides food, clothing, and shelter for the ones
that cannot work? Who supports their children?
If Ruger paid just a little into a fund for the wounded, I
would feel just a little better.
2
There is no gun carnage to great that will move Congress/Senate to pass any gun laws, sensible or otherwise...none.
If the slaughter of 20 kids, 5 and 6 years old or the the massacre of 59 individuals or the murder of 26 church worshipers haven't moved the politicians to act...there is no number of fatalities, whether it be 59...99...or 199 that will change to gun laws in the US.
2
Outlawing high capacity magazines would at least minimize the damage that a nut case with a pseudo-assault weapon can do.
1
I keep hearing about the AMT being eliminated but it looks to me more like the AMT acronym has been eliminated because it isn't needed anymore, since many of its disallowed deductions have now been extended down the line to lower-income families. It's no longer "alternative," but it's still a monster tax, and now more regressive than ever. Why does everyone keep buying into the story that it's gone?
1
First of all, gun control can work; we see it working in many countries. So we just start by saying it can be done.
So it's the number of guns and the culture.
How to reduce the number and change the culture (beliefs that [1] we have a "god" given right to have them, [2] we should not control them because it would destroy peoples "identity" --some people just believe they must have them of they fall over from insecurity, [3] the government is going to take over me and my property and [4] other cultural items you can think of such as wild-wild west movies and crime movies that have people scared stiff.)
So to keep it simple, we know it can be done. How to change the culture and the corruption of our government with the NRA?
2
Paul Ryan says prayer will work. I wonder why the shootings continue then?
11
Bret, SocSecurity is NOT an "entitlement", it is paid for by the employed person.
Bret, the US corp taxes are NOT higher than the average industrialized nations', but lower.
Debatinmg without the facts, especially when Gail can recite them if you ask, won't convince anyone you know what taxation is about, and, no, trickle-down does not work, estates are not heavily taxed unless over $5 million, and deficits will count. Just in case you think otherwise, call Dr. Krugman or consult an Econ textbook.
9
English language police here. Just a word about the word entitlement. It has been twisted out of all recognition. Social Security is indeed an entitlement, in the sense that we are entitled to have it because we paid into it. We deserve it. We earned it. How did the word entitlement get so twisted to mean something unearned?
2
Why are there such limited opportunities to comment on NY imes Op-ed pieces on gun control? Obviously because the result would be a barrage of hate!
I believe that the gun problem should be treated exactly like the car safety problem. All gun owners should be required to pass a licensing exam. All guns should be required to be licensed in the state of the owner's residence with annual fees. And all guns should be required to be insured by the gun owner in order to be licensed, with insurance increasing relative to the risk of gun's killing capabilities. Part of this insurance should go to a fund for victims of gun violence and their families. With 300 million guns in play, maybe fees could also pay for universal health care. If we can still charge higher insurance rates to careless drivers and smokers, I don't see why we can't have gun owner's pay for the higher risk to everyone's life and health of gun ownership.
9
It all seemed like an excellent bipartisan article until Mr. Stephens decided to write 'entitlement reform would be a good idea for the long-term health of the federal fish', just when I thought he might be a decent guy. Mr. Stephens, shut your trap for using the codeword 'entitlement'! I am getting social security checks now after paying into SS for over 50 years. I'm getting paid back after investing. This is so obnoxious when the 'reform' needed is simply to raise the cap on what incomes pay into social security, a reasonable change given inflation, cost of living increases, etc.
4
We don’t pay capital gains tax rates on the sale of a home: the first $250,000 of profit ($500,000 for a married couple) is excluded.
The reason why rich people win in tax “reform” is that even educated, current events, political people like the columnists just don’t know about taxation. What chance does the Fox News or Rush Limbaugh fan have? Those fans are being misled by rich people about the taxes the rich pay.
2
So instead of having gun laws that try to prevent the proliferation of guns, we have to rely on some clerk adding someone's name to a gun registry. Insane.
5
Bret,
You thank God you don't live in New Jersey? Why is that? No use for over 100 miles of ocean beaches? Don't care about some of the most important sites in the Revolutionary War, including the battlefields in Monmouth, Trenton and Princeton? You don't like the taste of silver queen corn? You're not a fan of the Giants or Jets, both of which are from NEW JERSEY. Or is it because you like to pump gas? As the most congested state in the nation, so many people already want to live here that we really don't want you to live here either.
1
"Can I just mention here that people who refuse to pick between the two major parties in important races are being weenies who just want to demonstrate their vast moral superiority?"
Well said, Gail! But because I like the current configuration of my nose to the rest of my face, I will not be repeating this little jewel to my Jill-Stein-voting, ex-Bernie-Brother friends.
3
Don’t go blasting us Bernie bots, he would have beaten Trump in the general election. And yes I voted for Hillary , in the general,but I knew she would lose. And now it is coming out from Donna Brazile how bad it really was in the HRC campaign.
Do we get to say we told you so?
2
So predictable. We have another tragedy and instead of being honest, the NYTimes articles and opinion sections turn this into an anti-Trump piece.
We don't have serious gun regulations for one reason, and one reason only. Congress doesn't want serious gun regulations. Some Dems want no guns, and the legislation sponsored by them wouldn't pass if the majority in both houses were Dems. Some Reps want almost no regulations, and their legislation would have the same outcome. Most want some regulations in addition to those we have (and don't enforce) today, but only if their constituents support those regulations.
All of Congress is spurred by getting elected the next time. If it puts them at risk, they pretend to want the 'right thing' but create bills that no one will pass. Then they wring their hands as if they tried so hard, but the other party stopped them.
In the mean time, the laws we do have are not enforced. The violence continues, unabated. And the media continues to give killer nut jobs the attention they seek, assuring another tragedy right around the next corner.
2
Making it illegal to purchase military-style assault rifles would not put an end to all violent mass murders, but it would sure be a good start. The NRA, representing the gun manufacturers, only wants to sell more guns. It doesn't care what type or what they are used for. Their job is just to make sure there are no restrictions of any kind on sales. The NRA would lift the ban on machine guns if it could. It is time for America to speak with one tongue on the purchase and use of assault rifles by people not in the military.
See:
RevolutionOfReason.com
TheRogueRevolutionist.com
6
We are two countries at war. The Red Ststes are winning.
4
Red States are winning?
You're right. Because those advocating for the Blue States have lost the confidence of the voter at all levels of government.
It is not incumbent upon the politicians of the Red States, or even Red State politicians in Blue States, to cede the field to the Blue just because the Blue are losing.
The Blue are losing because of the things that they have and haven't said, things that they have or haven't done, of the future that they have or haven't articulated.
At such times the Blue Staters get an act together that can prove to the public that their view is more viable than that of the Red, then their fortunes might change.
But that has yet to happen even after the unexpected drubbing handed to Hillary Clinton and her campaign of "entitlement".
Just what is keeping the liberal/progressive/Democrat from coming up with a platform that resonates beyond the canyons of the urban elites and urban ghettos?
After all, isn't it THEIR responsibility to dig their own way out of the hole?
If more of us could have conversations like these, the nation could be salvaged. Thanks, Ms Collins and Mr Stephens.
1
"that loophole is no different then paying the capital gains on a home" - that would be true, Mr Stephens only if people were in the habit of buying and selling their homes several times a year. The disingenuousness of so-called "conservatives", never ceases to amaze and dismay me.
7
I'm infuriated by the attitude that talking about gun control after a mass shooting is "politicizing" the event. It's already politicized. Every mass shooting is is a political act, supported by the NRA, the Republicans and the Twitter-in-Chief, all of whom think that we need more and more guns and NO sensible controls.
10
Is that is THE ONLY TIME, E, that gun control is discussed?
If it is, then the discussions are "politicizing" and rankly so.
It goes well in line with the motto of never letting a good crisis go to waste. But the problem is that the politicizing efforts to capitalize on a "good crisis" are often the very reason why the "politicizing" rarely offers much in the way of progress.
Not to mention, there is no time that is not after a mass shooting anymore. Ever notice that the American flag seems to be permanently at half-staff?
1
Entitlements are our way of automatically providing for the old and the poor, with no intrusive snooping about who really needs what. Cutting entitlements is reducing the living standard of our old and poor rather than the investment funds of those who are far from living check to check.
We have more investment funds than we know what to do with, as is shown by where most of them go -- bidding up the price of existing assets (stocks and housing) rather than adding new productive assets and jobs. If there were not a huge shortage of good, safe investments, nobody would buy U.S. or other bonds that barely keep up with inflation. Converting the vast investment funds held by individuals and corporations to someone's consumption would make the economy grow, and is probably the only thing that would get it really moving.
4
I can't believe this out of touch with reality pontificating! Particularly since today's issue has "Hill Bombing in San Francisco" glorifying delinquents endangering others health and lives by skate board "weave in and out of .... pedestrians". Anyone who has completed Psychology 101 and Sociology 201 courses could deduce that a major reason for so many mass killings, and many more single murders (done with fists/feet, knives, vehicles, bricks and hammers ....) is that our businesses and mass media have created for profit an emotion driven hyper-violent culture based on promoting "extreme" everything, one shooting a minute films with no moral content, killing video games given to children ... . And when you add to this indoctrination of a society to think the only way to solve disputes and feel better about themselves is to do violent drama, AND that perpetrators are tragic victim heroes, add decades of accumulating humiliation and rage caused by the same greedy elites shoving half the country into poverty by shipping jobs to China & killing wages/jobs here by importing 10's of millions of slave-wage immigrants, and liberals preaching that no discipline teen mother hood is a "valid alternative life style" you have a situation in which our "leaders" have created a critical mass for societal violence and murder. But can't talk about these root causes of why Americans kill so often while Northern Europeans with many guns don't, because that would threaten our 1%'s profits.
3
Democrats passed, and Bill Clinton signed, an assault weapons ban.
Their courage in standing up to the NRA was widely said to have enabled the NRA sycophant Republicans to take control of the Congress in 1994.
There were technical weaknesses in the definition of "Assault weapon," which the Republicans constantly ridiculed and criticized, but their goal, of course, was not to repair the flaws to strengthen the ban, but to overturn it.
Unfortunately, Nader voters handed the Presidency to George W. Bush, and
George Bush allowed the Assault Weapons Ban to expire, enabling all of the intervening carnage, including this past weekend in Texas.
Has anyone asked Bush 43 after the slaughter in the small-town church in Texas this week whether he regrets allowing the Assault Weapons Ban to expire?
Perhaps he and other Republicans should listen to and reflect upon our own NY Democratic Senator Gillibrand's forceful response to this weekend's slaughter and to Congressional inaction: https://www.c-span.org/video/?436806-2/senators-gillibrand-cornyn-texas-...
5
If it's too soon to talk about the gun tragedy in Texas, then let's talk about the one in Las Vegas. If it's too soon for that, then let's talk about San Bernardino. Since these atrocities happen with such frequency, if the "thoughts and prayers" solution folks get their way, there will never be time to talk about it.
8
So many shootings, the Walmart shooting in Thornton, Colorado, not even a week ago, which killed three, don’t get a mention.
Is it because it was “only” three murdered?
I am beyond disgusted with the NRA’s oiliness, it’s moneyed grip on the GOP and politicians bending over for the NRA for fear of not getting re-elected; and the outright misrepresentation of the Second Amendment by the NRA and the uneducated or willfully ignorant voters among us.
7
NOTHING should be off the table to discuss as we search for a way to reduce these tragedies, no matter what the NRA or any other lobby group says. Reviewing gun laws and their enforcement, mental health reporting and treatment, a better focus on known behavior patterns of mass shooters, even more civil discourse—all of it will have to happen to impact this horrific cyclical nightmare. We are awash in guns. No idea should be off limits.
5
You use your vote to punish people?
Our sense of community is assailed at every turn by every single one of us on every single day. It is all about perception, which social media distorts. I feel like these attacks used to come more from the right, i.e. Palin's "real Americans" and the organized assault of Fox News, but now the left is perceived as being guilty too. This is partly due to the fact that Trump is so reprehensible that he causes liberals to dismiss Trump supporters as racist rubes hell-bent on burning down the house in order to prevent someone like Obama from ever being able to rise again.
People on the right would claim this too is a myth. Obama's "cling to guns or religion," uttered back in halcyon 2008, was perceived by rural, largely white, voters as a personal attack. Never mind that he was trying to speak to the forces that would elect Trump, or of the needs to provide more and better opportunities for rural Americans. Like HRC's "basket," this comment was enough to galvanize simplistic ire on the right, and fan the flames of what would become an anti-Obama bonfire.
The same bonfire that is now burning down D.C. and, it sometimes feels, civil society writ large.
I enjoy this column. You're both fine writers. But your dialogue is couched in things that lessen it: humor and elitism.
Our problems have a long and shared history. They go back to the beginning. It's fine for us to laugh, but we should start treating the situation as grave, and as common. We need each other, now more than ever.
2
For my money, anyone who sports a "Pro-Life" bumper sticker on one side of his car should automatically be required to have an "Anti-Assault Rifle" sticker on the other side. No discussion allowed.
6
After the shooting, Trump came out and said the citizen who shot the Texas shooter outside the church prevented more deaths -- a lie. The shooter had finished inside the church and was fleeing. Trump again opens his mouth without knowing the facts. Gail is right -- this is not a leader who has helped in any way after these tragedies.
10
We are fighting a lost cause.. You can ban the sale of semi-automatic rifles, have a national "computerized" registry and mandatory background checks. Start it Tomorrow- but that won't rid the +500 million guns circulating across this country. The only feasible step is the Australia approach .. a mandatory "turn-in" -- That would be seen as government confiscation and would ignite a domestic war in this nation faster than you could say, "Home Shopping Network- The Trailer Park Living Edition"
Two things need to be done- Increase funding for "Stop the Bleed" campaigns and teach everyone basic first aid and more importantly - Start a program employing our military Veterans and Law Enforcement agencies to teach our public school children about gun safety and how to shoot. Yes- Live fire practice in the school yard. If we are going to "co-exist" with +500 million guns then we may as well take the responsible steps to educate our children how to use and respect them.
The sight and sound of what was essentially a "machine gun," mowing down innocent concert-goers in Las Vegas, is something that will haunt me to my final breath.
4
To all those people and politicians that have been outspoken about praying for the victims of gun violence, stop praying and do something.
3
The gun debate was over the day we as a people decided that the murder of children in Sandy Hook was a bearable cost for misinterpreting the 2nd amendment. Get over it, or fight in the streets for civility and common sense.
10
This went sadly from "guns" to far away from that topic.
Paul Ryan said we need to pray when these mass murders occur because prayer works. Well, of course prayer does not work and we can prove that. Studies have been done and pure logic would in itself tell you there is no one listening to your prayers. Pure nonsense.
Gun control will only start to be implemented when some congressmen lose family members in a slaughter; perhaps their whole family including children. Or perhaps when a group of congressmen are killed together. It is bound to happen. A piece here today says the problem is simply too many guns;the studies have been done and that's what it says. A person who is deranged or has a momentary "hate" moment can just reach to his left or right and there is a gun there. Spur of the moment; or clinical mental disease.
Grab the nearest weapon and kill. Guns by the millions; more per person than any other country. Dime a dozen. Laying around like pencils and pens.
Control will come; but one can only guess how many must be slaughtered before it happens.
1
When is this nation, indeed the entire world, going to come to grips with fatal flaws in the male gender?
6
Perhaps, here in the US we need to organize peace movements where hundreds and thousands pray together (non denominational) or meditate together.
These movements were staged when Bush declared was against Iraq and the turn out was phenomenal but Bush was tone deaf.
Here are some recent phenomenal "prayers and thoughts" movements that actually stir and churn collective consciousness of the masses and uplift everybody.
Mexico: 2015: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20151129005045/en/100000-Unite-Par...
Thailand, 1 million meditating children, 2013:
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-21016612/one-million-children-join...
Thailand, 1 million chanting children, 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6nmqFf7UIg
1
@Petey: I'm old enough to remember going to candlelight vigils with my mother during the Vietnam war. It would be great if something like that could happen now.
“It’s disappointing, it’s sad, and this is what you’ll get from the far secular left. People who do not have faith don’t understand faith, I guess I’d have to say. And it is the right thing to do is to pray in moments like this, because you know what? Prayer works. And I know you believe that, and I believe that and when you hear the secular left doing this thing, it’s no wonder you have so much polarization and disunity in this country when people think like that.”
I understand that we value guns and cars over our own lives in America, but the way we continuously offer up our small children to these efficient killing machines breaks my heart. We don't even let them drive or shoot, yet we continue to let them be killed.
Maybe we should let preschoolers drive and have guns. I suspect things would change in a hurry.
1
Mass murder has become normal,routine in the United States. Another day,another multiple killings. Not shocking anymore. No pause to notice. Continue what you were doing. Scan the news to see if anything is different? No,same as all the others. What's on tv tonight? Maybe I'll go the the movie? Texas? Does that mean it will be forgotten quicker than New York or Florida,or Connecticut or Illinois or Louisiana? Gun sales will briefly increase. "Leaders" will talk of evil. Then the next mass murder will replace the last one.
I actually agree that the discussion around mass shootings should be about mental health. But it should be about all those maladjusted souls in our society who think they need more than 2 or 3 hunting or recreational guns,or assault weapons.
Honestly, anybody who buys a military assault weapon at some level is thinking about killing people. Plain and simple.
This should be recognized as a form of mental illness; before the murders commence.
5
Stephens ignores the real threat to US economy & homeland security (i.e. the safety net of Medicare & social security, clean air & water, safe roads & bridges, reliable energy & telecom)--tax cuts without address infrastructure investment and sound changes to military (never audited) and entitlement spending.
Flat tax is sophomoric- a typical 'conservative' argument used by SHS in her barroom ramble.
The true impact of income loss must be acknowledged. Taxing a $100M estate and leaving heirs (dependent non-productives?) only $60M is hardly harsh, despite the fact that this asset had been taxed already.
Paying forward is a concept of fairness- for the great wealth provided by civil society, good schools, reliable infrastructure & well-regulated markets. US governance makes our economy successful--not wild short term greedy profiteering.
Of course the billionaires should repay the nation. Buffet is that sort of patriot.
5
Gun control has about as much chance as mass transit, climate-friendly environmental regulation, affordable higher education, or getting rid of Dark Money political influence. This became Darwinian a long time ago. The US can no longer make pragmatic decisions. Watch most of the developed nations pass us by.
1
Ms. Collins should have challenged Mr. Stephens on his assertion that the carried interest loophole is "..Bo different from paying capital gains tax on the sale of a home." The egregious unfairness of the carried interest exemption is that the beneficiary has risked no capital of his or her own. A capital gains tax lower than ordinary income tax is already unfair, but those who justify it do so on the grounds that it results in more capital investment and therefore economic growth. Those willing to risk their capital are therefore rewarded. But the hedge fund manager who risks someone else's capital pays capital gains level taxes on what he takes out of the profits. No risk, but an exaggerated reward. For shame, Mr. Stephens, and wake up, Gail!
2
One more remark: it is pointed out that the terrorist event took place right in front of Stuyvesant HS, which is called a beacon for immigrants. But it also took place in front of Borough of Manhattan Community College of the City University of New York. Here, instead of Stuyvesant, an elite High School that the elite authors of this essay recognize because it is secured in the consciousness of their creed, is where the real citizens of New York City, the immigrants who struggle to earn an education, are invisible even though they suffer greatly from a 2nd terrorist attack in their front yard. The blindness to BMCC is painful to witness, and reflects a lack of sensitivity to a deeper greatness of our immigrant nation.
1
So, what is the answer to mass shootings?
1. Define and Confiscate all assault weapons.
2. Annual federal licensing of all automatic and semi- automatic weapons.
3. National database of gun possessors, available to law enforcement.
4. Jail time for anyone convicted of possessing an automatic or semi-automatic weapon without a current license.
3
I think if we asked any one of the Texas shooting victims, they would want us to be talking about gun policies right now. In fact, I bet they'd support a 24x7 dialog in Washington until some saner policy is passed. We can, and should debate what that policy is. We all have our own opinions. Let's lock Congress in the Capitol, without any NRA interference. Let's have the dialog and tell Congress, who we pay to make the tough choices on our behalf, to hold the tough votes. I want to know where they stand before Thanksgiving. I don't give a hoot about their tax bill. Guns are the urgent problem.
2
Please mention the elimination of medical deductions. These keep our household just above the poverty line. I can't justify them ideologically but the lower middle class, which is growing astronomically, needs any crumbs the well-off in Washington will throw at us.
1
Every gun sale or exchange should require approval, every gun should be registered and every gun owner should be licensed. In addition, no automatic or semi automatic assault weapons should be allowed and no mega bullet clips either. Some sanity needs to be applied to Americans love of guns. Would it stop these killings, probably not, but it might slow them down or shrink the numbers of dead. We have to start somewhere.
3
I admire America for its great achievement, but I cannot deny its predilection to violence.
It is everywhere: in blood sports, like boxing and football.
The country is infatuated with its military, saluting all the time “support our troops".
America was born in blood and it has been bleeding ever since. When it entrenched the right to bear arms, it licensed a culture of vigilantism. Violence was the emblem of life on the frontier and the history of whites and native Americans.
All is not lost, however, for a course correction to prevent catastrophic collapse of the American civil society.
Indian religions philosophy of Sanatana Dharma will show the way forward. It is the most ancient and respected religion in the world. Due to the spiritual peace, personal empowerment, overall health and satisfying lifestyle it offers its followers.
Sanatana Dharma has survived intact for over 5000 years. It has survived – when many other religions didn’t – because its teachings are time honored and true. Its lasting influence can be seen in the very name of our tradition, “Sanatana Dharma”, or The Eternal Natural Way.
Sanatana dharma also says that all paths leads to the same goal. Which means that everyone, as many people there are on the planet, is free to follow their own paths, they will all lead to the same goal.
1
I think our culture of violence is happening for two reasons:
The story we tell ourselves about ourselves is steeped in violence. Look at our literature, music, movies, TV shows, games, we celebrate violence as a solution to life's problems. The average person is exposed to hours of violence every week in almost every medium. Is it any wonder that someone would choose violence as a solution? Our violence ranges from the horrific - Texas, to the mundane - Sen Rand Paul was beaten up over a 'trivial dispute.'
The second reason is that we no longer care. We have become a culture that is Cold, Course & Calculating. We don't care about people, events that don't effect us and are always looking for how we can benefit.
Here in San Diego we have a Hepatitis A outbreak among the homeless (San Diego has the 4th highest homeless population in the US), we are therefore having a debate about what should be done. If you look at the comments and filter out the obvious trolls, what is striking is the overall tone: They are losers who won't play by the rules, they are smelly and nasty and I want them gone. The homeless presence is costing us tourist dollars, they need to be shipped out.
It is this very attitude that allows us to ignore 15,000+ gun deaths each year, that allows us to ignore the suffering around us in our cities, that allows us to write off the corruption and fighting in Washington as 'business as usual.'
I refuse! I care! I am going to make a difference.
1
We honestly should thank the families of those murdered in a Baptist Church for their sacrifice in defending our right to bear arms. I've little doubt that these fine Texans have been life-long supporters of an expansive interpretation of the Second Amendment. Having assault rifles available clearly is valued by the NRA and its supporters. How better to use them than to launch an "assault?" What better way to resolve a grievance, real or imagined? So let's not pray for those who died on Sunday... let's give them a round of applause for playing their part in insuring we all will have the right to own and use military grade weaponry. That will surely keep America great!
Thanks for some civil discourse in these vitriolic times.
1
So who ends up with the medical bills for the survivors of these shootings? Should this be a responsibility of the government or NRA perchance?
1
I am moved by Gail's remark about being "viscerally angry" at a politician. I feel this every day and I believe I understand why. Trump appears not to feel things viscerally, being, as has been said ad infinitum, narcissistic, lacking in empathy, and a socially doomed, dishonest liar. He spouts fake analysis and is only an empty simulacrum for any real feelings. This loss of humanity in a leader is profoundly disheartening for those he leads and gives rise to visceral anger accompanied by the emotional emptiness that is doom.
Trump profoundly declares that the mass murderer in Texas not only had " mental health problems," but that he was a" deranged individual." Duh! I don't what is worse or more destructive: the mass murderers of every stripe the acolytes of our gun culture have unleashed on the country or the simpering, whimpering mealy-mouthed mush that spills from the lips and drips down the chin of spineless politicians like drool who haven't got an ounce of common sense left in their bodies.
There is nothing to say that hasn't already been said on gun violence. Our country is halfway to a lock- down culture and it is not going back. We might as well go all in with 24/7 surveillance, armed guards on every corner, checkpoints, all the blights inflicted on other fascist states today and in the past. Gun suicides could be stopped with a Big Brother device in every home, no exceptions. We have the technology. The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance.
1
Should we be waiting on the politicians (especially this lot) to come up with solutions?
It's not that disturbed people have access to WMDs. It's that those who acquire such weapons are most likely disturbed. It's blatantly obvious that the male gun fixation is simply a cover for sexual inadequacy. And that the female gun fixation of is simply a yearning by many to be 'one of the boys.' The sexually inadequate ones, oddly enough.
The logic presented for such violence is that we have hoards of mad men running about. But, more so than other nations? If not that, it's guns, guns, guns.
5 on the Supreme Court have aided & abetted such carnage by deliberately misinterpreting the 2nd amendment, all in a perverted attempt to 'stick it to the progressives.'
Here's a solution, vote for only those who will promise to repeal (or amend for clarity) the 2nd Amendment.
2
As a mental health professional for the past 37 years, I have heard nothing about why this is a mental health issue. This man seems to have been a psychopath which is far different than the CO and CT mass shooters who were clearly psychotic.
2
The latest mass shooter had a track record of domestic violence, fracturing the skull of his infant stepson, stalking former girlfriends, a court martial and bad conduct discharge from the military. Does this guy in any way resemble a "well-regulated militia" ??? Time for the NRA and the Republicans to stop pretending that the second amendment makes common-sense gun regulation impossible, because it doesn't.
7
"Did I mention that I also thank God that I don’t live in New Jersey?"
-Bret
20 odd years ago I moved to Atlanta. Went to a Chamber of Commerce luncheon. Some boring speakers and terrible food. But then the Mayor spoke and was touting the benefits of living in Georgia, and dropped this line. Have you ever heard of anyone ever moving to New Jersey to retire?... Got a good laugh on that one.
Sad about the shootings, nothing will change.
Bret, the rationale for the tax cut for business sounds a little fishy in light of Apple,Inc. squirreling away their offshore profits on Jersey Island. See NYT article. I know what your going to say. "Now they won't have to because they have this new super low tax rate." Also, I have a bridge for sale not too far from where you live!
Hang in there Bret, Gail and company will have you converted to a bleeding heart liberal before you know it. it's not that painful!
And the 2nd worst politician in modern times is about to show that you can win re-election with a 40% approval rating.
It's embarrassing that the NY Times editorial recommended Deblasio in part because of "sound municipal finances". Gimme a break - he's dramatically exacerbated a terrible long-term situation.
1
President Trump and Congress you are at the very tip of this murderous national spear of gun massacre. I am almost tempted to say, "DO something about it!" but I know you never will. Nor will your feckless fellows in our national and too many of our state legislatures. Perhaps you might reconsider if your own loved ones are ever gunned down, and even that might not do the trick.
1
They emotionalize this event on TV by calling it a "tragedy", but let's call it by its name: a massacre, and an ironic one at that. Texas, the site of this latest mowing down of innocents, is more pro-gun than the Terminator. Texas voted solidly for Trump, a violent, ignorant and racist man who has no intention whatsoever of taking a single act to keep future acts like this from happening and is solidly in the pocket of the gun lobby, along with the state's representatives. Baptist evangelicals, several of whom hold the President's ear, are anti-gun control because gun control "isn't spelled out in the Bible" (no, I'm not kidding). The connection between men (because the overwhelming majority of them are men) who abuse women (like the President and Harvey Weinstein), animals, and children is solidly proven, and yet women still can't get a break when they're beaten and raped, and forget the rights of innocent animals. The headlong rush to a faith-based Armageddon has been the agenda and the spoken policy of evangelicals for many moons now, and as their own (and other people's) are mowed down in droves, they continue to foolishly talk about "the good man with a gun". This is your culture, America. These are your erroneous beliefs in full, bloody flower. The Evangelical Church, ironically the site of this massacre, should be held to account for what it has done and what it has left undone that made this massacre happen. Shame.
1
"Try talking about the mental health of terrorists and see how far that gets you with conservatives."
All mass shooters /killers are terrorists.
1
These mass shooting victims, and the inevitable thousands to come, can be viewed as unwitting American human shields. The NRA and its legislative lapdogs have placed them in harms way to protect the right to manufacture, sell and use military weapons within the US. And our political leaders’ response is for more prayer. It is truly sad to see our nation’s resemblance to Hamas and their ilk.
Five sensible Supreme Court justices could lay waste to the second amendment in a few paragraphs. But that’s not going to happen because of the intractable stupidity of the electorate. So we we will continue to have more “martyrs.”
There's something seriously flawed about a nation's law enforcement, that it succeeds in thwarting 99.9% of would-be foreign and domestic terrorists plots, yet continuously fails to anticipate the murderous rampages of pre-confirmed -- and well-known -- aggressors like Devin Patrick Kelley, Stephen Paddock (Las Vegas murderer), James T. Hodgkinson (Virginia congressional baseball practice shooter), Dylann Roof (Charleston African-American church murderer), and so on, and so on, and so on....
What's the hangup? Is it that "terrorist" scares the bejesus out of U.S. law enforcement, and "murderer" doesn't?
These woeful oversights of imminent American mass murderers in plain sight surely constitute, among those officials charged with protecting us, rampant carelessness or stupidity (or both).
2
As a Canadian I am always tempted by travel to the States. It's warmer there, and there is some nice stuff to see. The people are nice.
But you know what? I'm done. The U.S. has become that sad family down the street where the cops come every Saturday night, where the dogs are tied to a pole with binder twine, and no one talks to the dad because of what happened last time. Between the stultocracy, endemic racism, and addiction to guns, you know what I have left? Thoughts and prayers.
1
The Constitution is not a Bible. It is not the word of God. It ca ans been amended multiple times, including the now infamous 2nd Amemdment. Time has come to repeal the 2ndAmendment.
You can't be for gun control, then turn around and end stop and frisk, which targets illegal the guns responsible for vast numbers of murders in NYC, Baltimore, Chicago and Washington DC. So which is it?
Lower the flags
and say a prayer.
Shed a tear,
but never dare
to ask why guns are everywhere.
Plant a flower on the grave.
Ask the loved ones to be brave.
Thank the Lord that some were saved;
but never ask why someone so depraved
could buy a gun as fast
as those cut down in church
could smile and wave.
1
The only time Trump has been truthful: ‘there’s a lot of mental illness in our country’.
1
Ungodly shooting in TX church on top of NV shootings. Too horridly common now. Trump tweets shooter mentlly ill, ownership of guns fine. Time to rescind 2nd mendment of our Bill of Rights. These murders were by sick guy with rifle. Not killing by guns, swore Trump. Our President lies.
Want to get politicians to start tripping over themselves to come up with gun reform? Have every African American, men women children, join the NRA. Form militias. Attend every NRA meeting demanding the All American right to arm yourselves to the eyeballs. Demand the right to have all the 'freedoms' guaranteed under the Second Amendment. And since the President has hinted he wants a show of a strong military during the July 4th parades, volunteer to proudly march in ever one of them brandishing your new freedoms. That ought to do it.
2
T is Texas.
T is for trauma, too.
Congress has established a religion:
the adoration and worship of firearms.
There is no end in the sights.
Trump is disgusting, his response that panders the NRA was cruel & intemperate. .Certainly, this person was deranged, but to write it off as the only reason for this heinous act was beyond belief.He had an arsenal, where he shouldn’t have had any weapon, due to his bad Conduct Discharge & previous acts of Violence.There are vast holes in the system, that allows misfits to purchase automatic weapons. There must be a vetting period for the purchase of guns, where your background is thougherly checked , along with your mental stability.This may affect gun sales, but it will save thousands of lives.You can’t control insanity, but you can control the sale of guns.
1
How long, how long, must we live like this? Do most ordinary Americans realize that the USA is now on the list of countries people should NOT visit unless necessary because of the violence and frequent mass murders that occur here? Hello, Congress, ARE YOU ALL BRAIN DEAD? Perhaps until a member of your family, a wife, a child, a parent, a friend, is murdered, you might, perhaps come to your senses! I was visiting in Germany when Sandy Hook happened: 26 kindergartners and first graders murdered at school. Germans came up to me, tears in their eyes and said "How can these things happen in America?" I had no answer. I have had no answer for 50 years. And now it happens about every 2-3 weeks. For God's sakes, Congress, your loyalty should be to your oath of the Constitution---NOT the NRA! No common sense, no logic, no compassion, no understanding. Shame, shame, on all of you! I would wish no harm to your own families---but you seem unable to understand this horror unless it happens to your own loved ones. To whom have you sold your souls?
2
Leadership has nothing to do with it. What has replaced leadership in America pulls the strings from the shadows. Look at the paradise and Panama papers and all the other revelations that have come to light lately. It’s a horror and the NRA is hand in glove with it. These things happen in America because it’s part of America, not because some holder of high office has failed in some way. They all have. The gun culture is a poison in the American psyche. Like heroin, you need the fix every so often. It may not always feel so good but *you gotta have it*.
Look, the rest of the world just doesn’t care anymore. All this stuff happens because you want it to, or you don’t want to stop it badly enough. Stop spilling so much ink, and save the breast-beating for important things like one’s posture while the national anthem plays. Bombs bursting in air and all that.
2
The president says that when Muslims kill people, it's terrorism. When an American loner with domestic issues kills people at worship in church, he's mentally disturbed, insinuating that a hospital stay, meds and rehab is all the lone wolf needs, and all will be well. This guy was nuts. He fractured the skull of his 18 month old toddler and then took out his domestic frustrations on his family's fellow worshipers. And what will Sarah Huckabee Sanders say at her next press briefing? "This is not the time to talk about gun control". Hello, but with 26 people killed in church, when is the time to talk about Americans slaughtering Americans?
2
Wow, you both made a lot of sense.
Careful Bret, you don't know who might be reading this.
You guys are too chummy. To get at the guts of who we are, Gail should stay and Bret should exit for that other B, Bannon. Oh, the times you two would have.
If I thought more of my fellow Americans, I would hope for progress on gun control, income inequality, Citizens United, white supremacy advocates. I don’t I’ve given up on us. We deserve every mass shooting and terrorist act we suffer, because we are arrogant, ignorant, and, well, insufferable. We are a herd that needs culling, however randomly that happens.
And when we have a Carrot-in-Chief who eschews the chance to sample the best sushi and sashimi in the world for an ordinary steak, and throws twitter tantrums at a demented kid running North Korea, maybe our species needs to nuke out. Maybe the fallout will mutate the surviving cockroaches into woke, sentient, rational beings who appreciate the planet and all of its life forms and overall magnificence. I van only hope.
1
More and more, Bret Stephens demonstrates that he's the one with the most brains at NYT.
I was against the GOP tax cut plan because I don't see the need for tax cuts when I suspect that Federal government expenses will only increase due to natural disasters and the urgent need for infrastructure repair. Hopefully, we will also see the need for innovative infrastructure upgrades as well. We should be spending money on railroads, etc. More money should be spent for the public good - veterans healthcare, housing, schools, etc.
But since my income has been headed down towards the center of the earth, if they want to give me a tax cut, I'm not sending it back. Then I saw a table with the proposed tax savings for differing income levels. I would get a tax return of approximately $200 more then previously. OK, but then someone making 7 times as much as I do would get a return 14 times greater than mine. And it only gets worse. Tax reform that is not overwhelmingly skewed towards the well off and the obscenely rich would be welcome; tax cuts for these people which leaves out the majority of citizens is not.
5
Mainstreaming of the mentally ill: one of the greatest crimes of the 20th Century that we will pay more and more for in lost lives and dreams in the 21st Century.
2
Rampant proliferation of guns in war-torn, unstable regions with kleptocratic rulers is seen everywhere. Now the top exporter of regional wars is letting psychotic white caucasian terrorists carry out terrifying killings in the homeland. Homeland security for whom? More than half a trillion dollars spent to defend the nation from overseas terrorist and enemies thousands of miles away who murder fewer Americans than those killed by opioids or in road accidents. Where’s the patriotic war against cars or opioids? Why is the military-industrial complex allowed to profit from domestic gun sales and wars that further destabilize hot spots in the world? The rot starts from within said the Roman Empire.
3
Gail, forget the whole world watching, let's hope the whole is voting!
1
When I heard Him say that America has a lot of mental health problems I asked myself: how many people sitting in that room and listening looked at Him and said to themselves "obviously".
To stand in a foreign country and announce that America doesn't have too many guns, it just has too many mentally ill people...well, I don't even know what to say except that the words "American pride" do not come to mind.
You need a better campaign strategy to get something going on guns: you need to focus solely on two issues: the national data base for background checks; and, hammer, hammer, hammer "no machine guns on our streets!"....there must be sufficient military, police personnel to join the cause, be part of ad campaigns to tell people that AR-15s are bloody battlefield weapons. "NRA Supports Mass Murders"...bumper stickers, etc. everywhere.
3
I agree with those that say it's too soon to talk about gun control in the wake of this tragedy. With that said, let's talk about gun control as a result of Las Vegas. After all it's been a month and the prayer period has ended. After next month's inevitable mass shooting we'll talk about Texas. Any takers? Republican law makers?
7
The 2nd Amendment should be repealed.
6
One thought has been paramount in my mind lately, and Gail briefly brought the topic up in this conversation. Why doesn't the Times, or ANYONE, print front page stories every single day, complete with photographs and graphic truth, about the aftermath for THE VICTIMS of all these senseless shootings? How about an in depth, can't miss it story, every day, of the many people whose lives have been ruined, whose finances have been bankrupted and physical health and careers destroyed because of somebody's declared Second Amendment "right" to leave a huge wake of misery in their sick expression of Freedom and Liberty?
3
I am a church goer in Middle Georgia with a concealed carry permit. I do not pack at church. I may change that practice. But I also doubt my ability with a little pistol to defend against a semi-automatic rifle. I could be open to some more regulation on semi-automatics to help even the scales. Of course, we all want better care for our mentally ill, including the "care" of not allowing crazies to have guns. But here's a note to the NYT crowd. No mass shooters have been NRA members. They are not the crazies. And just so you know, I am not an NRA member. But I am rethinking that right now.
Dave Oedel, a bad guy with a gun is simply a good guy with a gun who got angry and decided to indulge his grievance. Misogyny? Racism? Anti abortion? Domestic violence? The biggest category of all: nobody really knows? All these have been put forward as reasons for mass murder. The one thing that unites all these tragedies; the one common denominator is the easy, legal accumulation of guns and ammunition. Your little handgun is not going to save anyone. But the attitude it represents - the fantasy of being a hero in the movie in your own mind, of needing that gun to be free, to be strong, to be safe - that attitude kills Americans by the tens of thousands every year. And yes, any organization that always values gun availability over human lives is crazy. The NRA, as a organization, is crazy. I am a churchgoer myself. Don't know what Paul Ryan and other Republicans are praying for ("Dear God, let the shooter be someone it is easy to scapegoat, preferably a foreigner non-Christian"?) but I am praying that we reject the heresy of gun worship and start valuing our children's safety over our violent daydreams.
1
A cynical president plus a corrupt congress plus a large part of the male population who are Bruce Willis wannabes and dream of yelling, "Yippee kai yay!" while brandishing an assault rifle - this is the recipe for societal insanity. Sensible gun laws will never happen in the United States. Guns and race are tearing the social fabric apart. 'Thoughts and prayers' will not mend it. Only courage and moral leadership will - and there is none to be found.
3
Once again, I am reminding everyone that I am the most viable candidate - just look at my name and see that I am endorsed in the article, although they spelled my name wrong.
In the past month, the tide has finally turned on sexual harassment.
Is it possible that the next house of cards to collapse might be our elected representatives unwavering allegiance to the NRA, and others who produce firearms?
2
And the Texas attorney general is saying that what is needed is more guns in church. Maybe more assault weapons in church.
2
What's happening here? I guess you ran out of people deranged enough that they could continue to support the lemming like Republican lovefest with the NRA and a dereliction of all conservative principles? This is no longer like the old SNL Point Counterpoint and now resembles a reasonable discussion among adults.
Enough! Enough! Enough with the thoughts and prayers. Enough with the flags at half mast! Enough with the meaningless prattle from spineless politicians!
We might as well not bother to raise flags to the top of the poles.They're at half mast these days more than they're up. I understand flying the flag upside down is a sign of distress. I think that's the way they should be displayed now because we are a nation in distress and it's getting worse with every passing day.
So how are gun sales this week? Probably through the roof because, you know, some politician like Obama or Clinton will try to take our guns away. One could only wish.....
4
Thoughts and prayers and nothing will change.
In your related article "What Explains Mass Shootings in the U.S.?" you claim "But there is one quirk that consistently puzzles America’s [overseas] fans and critics alike. Why, they ask, does it experience so many mass shootings?".
Oh really? Do you really think that this puzzles non US citizens? Really, do you really, really think that?
I figured it out when I was 14. The more guns you have, the more people get killed! Look at Australia, there is your proof. We banned most guns in response to a massacre. Now 30 years later there have been no more massacres. None.
Do I feel like my civil rights have been compromised by not being allowed to own a gun? Are you kidding me? Freedom distills down to your right to own a gun? What is wrong with you? In a civilized society no one should need a gun. Isn't this a self evident truth? I believe it is.
5
Can I just mention here that people who refuse to pick between the two major parties in important races are being weenies who just want to demonstrate their vast moral superiority?
Gail,
Your support for Clinton was much more basic than just voting for her because anything else would have been a dangerous cop out. Charles Blow criticized Donna Braziile for the damage her book can do. But again you wouldn't necessarily know he had a smug arrogant attitude towards Sanders supporters during the primaries. I think your argument about voting for a major party candidate would have considerably more ballast if it weren't so thoroughly linked to apologetics for Clinton. In that way it was a much easier thing for you to do than for people in active opposition to her militarisms and neo liberal policies.
Having said that I feel deep human solidarity with you and Bret and the horror and pain we experienced together and which you both speak so eloquently about.
3
Smug arrogant attitude towards Sanders, that is an understatement. Charles Blow went on TV repeatedly, bashing and smashing Sanders' run. He was merely a mouthpiece for the rest of the media.
2
The NRA slogan about guns not killing people is nonsense. Of course guns kill people, and we see that over and over. If Mr. Kelley had entered that church and started throwing rocks, I think most of us can agree that there would not be so many families grieving today. Even if he had had a knife he could not have done the damage he did. It was because he had a gun, and guns are manufactured for the express purpose of shooting things, that those victims are dead.
And, the "hero" who ran after Mr. Kelley and exchanged gunfire with him? I realize I'm probably the only person in America who feels this way, but he's no hero to me. He easily could have injured or killed some other innocent person on the street or in their car as he wildly fired his weapon at a fleeing Mr. Kelley and chased him through the streets at 90 mph. It's lucky the "hero" didn't add to the death toll that day. That kind of behavior just motivates other would-be "heroes" who may not be as lucky. With everyone armed it will be impossible to tell the "good" guys from the "bad" guys. To me, they're all just a bunch of guys who are a danger to the public.
2
Trump's pander to his base after the Texas tragedy was to praise the neighbor who went out & shot the shooter, then took chase. This is the NRA trope: a good guy with a gun...
But the slaughter in the church was not stopped by Stephen Willeford; the murderer was already outside- probably having exhausted his automatic magazines ( did they report 5 X 30 shells?).
A semi-automatic with big magazines can create a massacre in minutes. A good samaritan needs only an ordinary rifle & skill to defend & deter.
A combat weapon has never been the salvation of horror.
3
To the best of my recollection, the original Good Samaritan didn’t need a rifle (or sword, for that matter). Rather, even though he was a member of a different ethnic/religious group, he displayed a sense of instinctive shared humanity and social responsibility, never expecting reward, compensation or acknowledgement. He just did what was right. Finally, there’s no suggestion in the Parable that the Good Samaritan ever took the law into his own hands.
Do you want an excellent resource to combat the myths that "second amendment" proponents will bring up?
Read Justice Stevens' impassioned dissent here:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZD.html
"Neither the text of the Amendment nor the arguments advanced by its proponents evidenced the slightest interest in limiting any legislature’s authority to regulate private civilian uses of firearms"
3
I think that our American Values are perfectly clear. We are a violence tolerant nation willing to accept the erosion of the right "to life" for the right "to liberty". As long as we as a nation believe that prayers for the dead compensate for the life lived our Values will be perfectly clear
2
Not only was the shooter convicted of abusing his wife and step daughter, but he was an animal abuser. We should not let this marker of violence be ignored in the discussion.
1
Anyone who has been convicted of domestic violence, sexual assault, or rape should never be able to legally own a gun. It is not coincidental that so many of those guilty of these mass shootings have been guilty of these crimes before these shootings happen.
31
To Mal Stone:
You have left out the killings committed by people who are mentally ill and still allowed to buy guns. It would be a good idea to include people who have attempted suicide because they are often in the justice system or healthcare system and receiving treatment. How many times do you read 'he was troubled, alienated, not quite right"...And what happens? These mass killings are their own glorified suicides with quite a few people taken with them.
Look, if you can control a woman's birth control practices, why can't you control a man's gun collection?
"Mass killings help us see what we value, but where is our sense of community the rest of the time?"
ON THEIR PHONES AND SOCIAL MEDIA, absolutely not caring one iota about anyone else.
1
If only we could repeal the second amendment.
I don't think we'd all lose our guns if we repealed the second amendment. I think we'd write laws that fit best for what we wanted. Some places would be stricter (cites) than others (rural areas). Whats good for Billy Bob isn't whats good Johnny Big City.
Conservatives care about states rights in the same way they care about the deficit, and thats when it suits their purposes. They are very principled and rooted in theory everywhere except for in practice. Let the states decide. Let the market decide. Let the people decide.
2
Most people in this discussion are missing the point. Those that refuse any legislation to control guns are far beyond reason. They are still fighting the Civil War, or the immoral equivalent in their warped imaginations. This is all about paranoia that the Guv'ment is going to invade their homes and destroy their families. There is no rational communication with such people There is only the vast majority of the rest of us doing whatever's necessary to vote the NRA sycophants out of office.
2
Republicans must never again call themselves pro life until they vote for legislation that protects people from the NRA and their ilk. They don't get to limit women's access and use of healthcare, including abortion, until they get their hands out of the pockets of the NRA and take sensible steps to prevent gun deaths.
2
Just ban the bullets.
The Second Amendment says nothing about bullets.
The NRA can hand out rifles to everybody.
They are scrap metal without the bullets.
Strictly regulate the size and amounts of bullets one can have and watch the "sport" shooting ranges and all there deranged "play war" patrons dry up.
2
Trump's follow-up comments in Japan demand further exploration, namely, his statement that "We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, as do other countries." So he admits that the U.S. is not alone in having many mental health problems. Why, then, he should tell us, do we have an astronomically high proportion of the world's mass killings? What is different in the U.S., Mr. President? (Hint: you won't hear it on Fox News.)
3
I almost wept with relief when I saw Collins and Stephens in total agreement over gun control; I was steeling myself for a rage-inducing polite conversation from typically left and right wing views. Thank you. (Ms Collins, one thing I'm surprised you missed in the typical mass murderer's resume: they also frequently have a record of severe animal abuse. Like this particular waste of space, who beat his dog brutally.)
2
The parrot-like response from gun rights advocates of "it's too soon to discuss gun control" will soon become unusable because there is no longer any mourning time between one mass shooting and the next. (Not that it was ever a genuine excuse anyway.)
1
Do you know when all those gun rights folks are going to get reasonable? Only when members of their own family are slaughtered by a lunatic with a machine gun. As long as it happens to someone they don't know - in an unknown neighborhood - they will continue to insist that their right to bear arms cannot in any way be limited.
1
Steve Scalise, Republican from Louisiana, was shot, almost died and is permanently disabled. He is opposed to any legislation on guns.
His constituents are opposed.
He doesn't have any courage or integrity. He could teach his constituents something about gun violence and guns. Instead he acquiesces to their insanity.
He didn’t come home for the obvious reason- most New Yorkers hate him, and he knows it. Trump only goes where he is sure he will be cheered, and NYC isn’t one of them!
3
“In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate,” Dan Hodges, a British journalist, wrote in a post on Twitter two years ago, referring to the 2012 attack that killed 20 young students at an elementary school in Connecticut. “Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.”
2
“Earned benefits,” please, not “entitlements.” I worked hard for those benefits.
2
"The violence that never sleeps"
The violence never sleeps because the untreatable mental problems sloshing around in the brains of the killers never sleeps.
Until we are willing to lock people up for life after they demonstrate a few of the symptoms, no one is safe. This guy was so mental the military kicked him out. He cracked a toddler's skull; why was he not in prison for decades?
And where were his parents? Although what could they have done...maybe they begged for him to be institutionalized and were, unsurprisingly, told no.
I'm okay with very heavy-handed gun control, but that's not going to stop this. The killers only shoot one gun at a time no matter how many they own.
The fact is that many people need to be locked up for good because their brains are so diseased or damaged or whatever.
"Mass killings help us see what we value" - yes indeed, and clearly we value guns above everything else.
1
I'm glad that you pointed out that, when the violence of the lambs involves immigrant transgressors, our leader Trumpbull Lecture goes for the meat of the issue, but when it involves local folks he tweety birds a bit then wanders off to some golf outing with members of the NRA.
There was another fellow, Ron Reagan who thought Psychiatry was a communist plot, (not a joke)! I blame him for not only messing with or nation's laws concerning the use of prisons, instead of mental facilities, but for changing the way our culture perceives mental illness and deals with it. I firmly believe violence has replaced treatment in a great many cases.
Kristof wrote about guns and automobiles. I began to consider the idea of mandatory gun insurance?????? Keep you're guns but! Yes, I can imagine the arguments against firearm insurance.
Does "carried interest" promote gambling on the part of our bailed out,(zirp) money managers? Income becomes capital gains, which can be written off against losses, so take that chance, "Big Shot"!
2
The search for root causes goes on. How about:
Republicans begat Scalia. Scalia and cronies begat Citizens United decision. Citizens United decision begat special interest group unlimited power. Congress now must play to the largest donors and kowtow to the donors that can do them the most harm. NRA is a lobby industry powerhouse wielding a destructive stick which is their congressional voting score which can not only punish gun safety advocates but destroy them with targeted campaign vitriol and even oppose them with their hand picked mandarins. So Republicans have initiated this death spiral. Some of their own have even been shot. Until the legislative body can muster the guts to bring the lobby industry under control, reverse Citizens United and face the NRA head on, the spiral will continue and we will all continue to look for reasons about every 30 days. (Non-sequitur, but Scalia, Roberts and cronies declared that racism no longer exists in the USA. That's what we are dealing with.)
1
My father and grandfather were in the NYPD in Brooklyn. My dad carried a .38 special and a .32 above his ankle. Both of those guns were only fired at the range. Today, his weapons would be considered "pea shooters" and the firepower in the hands of good and bad people are 100X more capable of mass slaughter.
If there are 300,000,000 guns in this country are there 30 billion rounds packed into, vests, magazines, ammo boxes and suitcases?
I have never fired a gun.
I have never owned a gun.
I do not want to own a gun.
I do not want to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
The first 3 items I have complete control of the outcome; the fourth one, I do not...
Here is the common sense answer:
EVERYONE OF THE MURDERS ARE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF 537 ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT CONSTITUTE THE HOUSE, SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSE.
Wake up America...
3
Note to Gail Collins and Bret Stephens:
Elsewhere on these pages today, David Leonhardt, Ian Prasad Philbrick and Stuart A. Thompson have put together a chart showing the top ten recipients of N.R.A. funding in the Senate and House. All of them are Republicans.
The chart shows the huge amounts received by each lucky senator and representative, and it quotes the statement each loyal Republican made about praying for Sutherland Springs.
It is apparent that the National Rifle Association not only is the funding answer to the Republicans’ prayers, the N.R.A. actually writes their prayers for these occasions.
1
It isn't too soon to talk about gun violence, to talk about shooting people who are trapped like fish in a barrel and cannot get away; shot with powerful weapons that can discharge many rounds rapidly. It isn't too soon to talk about how to rein in the terror, destruction and grief that one or two disaffected (usually) men can inflict on a community.
It is too late. We have made it a norm, unless they yell "God is Great" in a foreign language and write a paean to ISIS. Then we can get all political and yell about it.
But otherwise? We have made it patently clear that if you go to a concert, or school, or church, you are fair game, because the right to sell any gun or accessory is more important than protecting a family from destruction at church.
We will claim to fix terror by limiting immigration. But we will do nothing about American men who decide to take out their anger by killing as many people as they can before they go down in what they have decided is a blaze of glory.
How is that blaze of glory any different from a promise of 72 virgins?
1
"Try talking about the mental health of terrorists and see how far that one gets you with conservatives."
Truer words were never spoken.
Americans are altogether too ready to think that actions of a tiny minority of Muslims are a reflection of their society and religion as a whole, while maintaining that these home grown massacres, by home grown boys, are aberrant - the result of a deranged man - not the result or reflection of our own culture of violence and guns coming home to roost.
1
There are many ways to kill. Look at the 1973 bar murders in Louisiana.
The AR-style rifles are not magic. Look at the Navy Yard shooting with a shotgun.
Meanwhile 148,000 Americans die every year from trauma. 400+/day.
The National Acad of Sciences says 30,000/year could be saved with improved emergency systems and universal first aid training.
So, you can wring your hands and chant slogans..... or you can take effective action.
Like soldiers in a combat zone, you were traumatized and stricken at the latest batch of casualties over the weekend in the NRA's War on America. You wanted some time to think about them as people. But the 58 killed in Vegas are already fading in memory and -- I truly hate to say this -- but the Texas victims will fade too when the next shooting arrives (This week? Next week? Week after?) The American public is developing mass PTSD. The insanity goes on all around us and everytime we try to put the guns out of reach, the NRA rages and demands full loyalty from their enablers in Congress. It's going to be a long war, folks. Get used to it.
1
Respectfully, Texas sees about 3,200 gun deaths per year or about 260 per month. This one 'incident' is only about 10% of Texas's November gun death quota.
"Violence that never sleeps" is the Reality of America, has been for decades, so what do you urgently need a leader for again?? This is just business as usual, folks.
"How have we become a country in which one person can wipe out 26 people — 7 percent of the entire community! — because profoundly disturbed people have easy access to what amounts to a weapon of mass destruction?"
Because profoundly stupid people keep voting to allow it! And they're the same folks that are voting for more global warming and more supply side economics. None of it's going to improve their lives one bit.
Look, my heart goes out to these people who are grieving. It's beyond my comprehension why this type of thing happens over and over, but it does and what do we do? Buy more guns! Somewhere in a vault at the NRA is an actuarial table that descibes how many people (and children) have to die before common sense kicks in and the gun lobby goes belly up. We're obviously not there yet, but my fundamental optimism believes it has to happen eventually. My sincere apologies to all those who are yet to die and to all who love them. Apparently, they must be sacrificed on the altar of the 2nd amendment.
2
When, in response to the tragedy in Texas, Trump remarked that America has 'a mental health problem at the highest level', he accidentally made perfect sense. Hurrah! He's still short of the high bar set by a stopped clock maybe, but clearly, he's working on it.
3
Even when Trump sticks to the script in responding to a tragedy, he sounds like a 4th grader who is just trying to read all the words without screwing up. His lack of affect makes the response worse (and decidedly creepier) than if he said nothing at all. The gap between his utter lack of any discernible leadership skills and his mind-boggling self-regard must be unprecedented in a U.S. president.
2
I don't believe in Hell, but if I am mistaken I am sure it will be full of Republican Congressmen who Pray for victims of Gun Violence.
7
We're on a path to absolute destruction. As a recent sobriety victim, I embrace the idea that me might all well be dead soon, and that it doesn't matter.
From very early on in my life, I knew that most people were totally insane, full of rules of thumb about dealing with abuse.
That's what we do. We deal with abuse unless we're the top devil.
Fix it and we die? Right? NO! Fix it and the future is unknown, and is that more fearful that the alternative? Yes it is.
I don't know about hell and heaven. I'm pretty sure neither exists. These our our creations to make life make sense. But every time life makes no sense I think of one thing as a parent: I'll meet my kids again in heaven and all will be ok.
I do strongly believe that we all engage each other on earth as a privilege that is above us. My kids' souls live as real things beyond me. I'm as spiritual as people can be, but not religious. Oh well.
1
The shock that this Mr. Kelley could get a gun, an AR15 after his abysmal military record ? How did he ever get into the military? How many wives, children, family members, friends are killed in this country by damaged individuals who are severely troubled before and/or after their military service? Is there a count? And all who serve are heroes? We have so misused the word .
We are a country of cowards who have been instructed to be afraid of one another, to need a gun. Our money should be engraved " In Guns We Trust, the Rest Be Damned"
1
Trump, mcConnel, et al have already signaled that absolutely nothing will be done.
Treat guns like cars. The infrastructure already exists, simply add gun categories to the list of vehicle categories. Require learners permits, license test, registration and liability insurance for each gun, title transfers when guns are bought and sold. Ban battlefield weapons, and kits used to 'upgrade' guns.
I expect another mass slaughter within a year.
Ditch the thoughts and prayers, nobody is listening, nobody gives a damn. America will forget Texas in a few weeks, just like we have already forgot Vegas. Manufacturers of the weapons used in Vegas and Texas need to fork up the money for the funerals, medical bills of the injured, and for all the government resources such police, ambulances, emergency responders, etc, etc.
The 2nd amendment gives the right to bear 18th century weapons if you belong to a well regulated militia, period.
Bret falls into the pit of mendacity that consumes all Republicans who have no other rationale for living other than cutting taxes, primarily for the rich.
About taxes: “I basically like it. It does four important things: It gives us an internationally competitive corporate tax rate and should reduce profit-shifting overseas; it simplifies the tax code.”
The nominal tax rate is high. The actual taxes paid by corporations is actually a shade lower than the much praised Ireland.
The idea that this scam, um, scheme, er, plan has any potential to refuce profit shifting overseas is laughable on its face. See the Paradise Papers and Apple’s liberal fervor for piling up tax free capital wherever it can, shifting from the Isle of Man to Jersey. It simplifies the tax code in a particularly unsustainable was, by penalizing supposed blue voter breaks and leaving those untouched benefiting the red.
And, after eight years of wringing their hands, let’s hear from the republicans like Stephens why exploding the deficit doesn’t matter now that a republican is in the White House. Does Corker have the courage of his convictions? I’m going to go with a “no” here. How about Rand Paul?
Is Paul Ryan satisfied with sacrificing on the altar of partisanship some of his most loyal partisans in blue states, like Peter King and Lee Zeldin on Long Island?
The scheme reads accurately like it was given to Kevin Brady fully formed by Trump’s personal and business accountants.
1
That absurd scenario suggests that Paul has a gun strapped to his hip and is able to deftly handle and fire it while being assaulted. Paul probably does own a gun but it didn’t help him here. Time to repeal the Second Amendment. Enough already!
1
John, the experience of the Junior Bush “repatriation holiday” proves that
1. It doesn’t bring everything, or anything close, back to the country.
2. It creates next to no jobs. The experience is that that money is used largely for dividend increases and share buybacks, designed to goose short term quarterly results, tied to, surprise, executive compensation.
3. The proportion to help 401K, IRA, or pension fund results is eclipsed by the proportion glommed onto by C suite denizens.
What would help repatriate is to eliminate the tax rebate we taxpayers provide to corporations paying foreign corporate taxes, such as GE or Verizon, to name just two.
As for Rand Paul and doctor on doctor violence. Nobody died, and nobody was charged with anything more serious that misdemeanor assault. Add a gun and how likely is that outcome? Get a grip. Paul shoots his neighbor, with or without legal provocation. Neighbor (who seems to have a temper) disarms and shoots Paul. Neighbor turns out also to be armed, and a gunfight ensues. Some bystander ends up shot. What is the outcome that is better than what actually happened? And if Paul is such a gun advocate, why was he NOT armed?
1
Trump says the shootings are not a gun issue but are a mental health issue. So is Trump calling for more money for mental health? No. He is working to cut mental health funding.
Quite a slippery snake, that Trump.
4
Sandy Hook. I thought this horrific incident would be the one to turn the tides and lead to comprehensive, bipartisan gun control legislation. I was tragically wrong, I was ignorant.
The NRA is now among the most powerful special interest lobby groups in the US. The very lucrative, money- making machine of guns sales is what funds the NRA budget. This stockpile of dollars is used to influence members of Congress.
These souls have been bought and reside in the dark side of humanity. Nothing will change until a vote cast is a vote of consciousness.
2
We need to quit using the term "gun control". As long as people think in terms of the government "controlling", we will meet with resistance. We don't talk about "automobile control"; we talk about auto safety. We have to demonstrate we can pass a driving test to have a license to drive. We are not able to purchase and use certain vehicles (tanks, for instance). We have speed limits and restrictions on our automobiles. Guns are a public safety issue. This is about the kind of commonsense restrictions there needs to be for purchasing, owning, and using guns. Weapons designed for warfare with the capacity to fire hundreds of rounds should not be in the hands of private citizens. Unfortunately, until voters demand action and our legislators stop taking money from the gun lobby to get and stay elected, we will keep talking about "thoughts and prayers" and doing nothing else.
1
Thank you both for this column. In times of societal upheaval brought forth by misinformed attitudes and selfishness, it is usually the thoughtful conversation of others that binds us whole.
It might not be a stretch to say that the US is beginning to adapt to a means of survival despite itself. Despite itself no longer the economic lynch pin, despite itself no longer the coveted place for mass immigration, despite itself unable to clearly define what the American dream really means anymore, despite itself with a significant portion of its citizenry drawn to embrace paranoia, despite itself having elected a leader who is little more than a lecherous and ignorant bombast, despite itself with its educational system in tatters...
It is being held together by well minded, decent people - of faith or otherwise who believe that as with everything else, this troubled time too shall pass.
Continue your journey toward keeping us engaged.
1
It is time to debunk the lies and proclaim these truths: the more we push guns on people, the more guns there are, the laxer the gun laws - the more gun violence occurs, and the more people die violently.
We have allowed the gun pushers to lay a pro-gun narrative on the American people with virtual ease. To change the priorities of this nation from preventing gun violence, to justifying, even promoting it. We have allowed the right to successfully push a narrative (and not just with regards to guns) that devalues human life. That makes the subtle, but extremely significant change from recognizing the occasional necessity of killing in self-defense, to the assumption that killing in self defense or defense of others is always justified.
Make no mistake about it - "the good guy with a gun" is no less a killer than a bad guy with a gun. Anyone who carries a gun with the idea that he needs to do so in order to protect himself is a potential killer.
We have stopped putting the onus on people, including the police, to avoid using deadly force if another means is available to prevent more killing, and we routinely turn a blind eye to the killing of unarmed people by police.
We will never pass reasonable gun legislation until we find our moral compass regarding the value of human life and our moral obligation to respect it, nurture it, and keep it safe. It's past time to dust the cobwebs off of the nonviolence/peace movement and start making it relevant again.
1
Do we really think that lowering the corporate tax rate to 20% is going to cause U.S. companies to return their incorporated location back here? As reported in The NY Times, Apple moved to the Isle of Jersey, after the Emerald Isle began enforcing the tax rules. Apple incorporates in Jersey the island and manufactures their products in China and elsewhere outside the U.S. They, like other corporations, are meta-national companies that owe allegiance only to themselves. Evidently they take for granted that Apple was founded in a well-defended country with a decent educational system and functional infrastructure. They've chosen to avoid paying taxes to defend or maintain it.
It's a pretty clear strategy that the NRA is employing, and it's working: keep kicking the can down the road with double speak and lobbying payoffs, and eventually we'll just shrug and shake our heads, having been mind numbed, and our collective sentiment will be "can be done." A year from now, the band-aid legislation to outlaw bump stocks will have mold on it. The deaths of little children don't matter 1/100th as much as a few casualties in Benghazi to a significant portion of this country.
`Mass killings help us see what we value, ...'
Maybe the dumbest thing I've read in a long, long time.
Mass killings don't `help us see what we value,' they show us the opposite. They show us the things we take for granted, the things we hold in contempt, the things we see as cheap and expendable. When the nation is cover in blood, it's hard to argue that there are things we `value'.
Unless something is done to stop this carnage, no one will be able to argue we value anything - including human life.
Bret & Gail,
Please give a listen to Larry Summers' view of the new tax plan from today's Bloomberg. He destroyed it. It will either do nothing or make things worse.
(Summers is impressive. I know, I know: He's arrogant; doesn't suffer fools gladly.)
Every time you hear a Republican talk about mass shootings or taxes prepare to become outraged and depressed. After they've bowed their heads in "prayer", as they call it, they spout some drivel about more guns in the hands of good people would solve the problem.
Taxes ? This isn't tax reform. This is payback to rich donors and corporations.
And if guns and taxes don't kill you they'll make healthcare impossible. Either way, they'll get you.
2
Republicans understand what Americans want-- in the same way that the World Wrestling Federation does. Your conversation reflects that truth but doesn't explicitly say it. So I will.
We want black and white entertainment with no gray. We want simple to understand themes with plenty of violence and threats. We want to believe that what was black a minute ago can become convincingly white--and vice versa--with no explanation for why at all. And we want it all to be play acted with no consequences.
What plays well in a fake wrestling ring for the entertainment of middle America and children doesn't do so well in an international arena. Fake choke and collapsible folding chairs holds have nothing on nuclear weapons.
America has elected a president in spandex and a fright wig to handle the very real and unforgiving job of governance. The consequences of this choice will be paid for every day for a very long time.
1
Im not buying that Americans value life. Oh we value the rituals of talking about it, mourning the loss, but not the life itself. Not blanketly.
We abuse life. Personally, and as a society. Thru politics, or religion, or because we're born mean. We allow our govt to kill overseas with impunity, and call it keeping us safe. We deny the sick care, and call it the free market. We let children go homeless for decades.
I think we prefer the rituals of honoring life more then life itself.
1
Watching what unfolds--and has done so many times before--are we really having a conversation? Is this a prerecorded hologram of talking points?
I watched a Republican congressman on cable news say that if we cannot stop each and every event, why bother with better gun control. He cynically attempted to suggest that if people use planes and trucks to kill we should ban those too.
We watch people slaughtered by weapons of war, with high-capacity clips, and Congress fiddles. They are every bit as culpable as the NRA. And a Texas congressman, with a straight face, says he does not see a difference between weapons with high-capacity clips and general modes of public transportation.
Our leaders distort the role of mental illness. And they ignore established evidence that those states with tighter gun laws have fewer problems. They pass laws impeding research on our gun sickness. They insist on all or nothing--a posture most would never teach their children.
We see endless displays and quotes that rely on data analytics--in Vox, the NYTs, and so many other places--showing how awful our nation is, how blind we are in our love affair with guns. We analyze the words and mind-set of a guy in the White House who lies incessantly, who at one time (when it was more convenient) supported better gun control.
The men who wrote the 2nd amendment never considered that it would lead to mass slaughter of their own citizens, their own children.
What a nation we have become.
1
Bill O'Reilly boiled the last US massacre down to six words: "This is the price of freedom."
He's right, it will happen again and again, to support Americans' freedom to have as many guns as they choose.
The question is not how many more need to sacrifice their lives for Americas' 'freedom', but when and where is the next mass shooting, and the next and the next... it's the American way of life.
2
I will risk being a bit sophomoric here. It seems to me that "horizontal conversations" such as this column with Bret and Gail are much more important than many in the public may realize. Shields and Brooks are perhaps the best example of civil discourse that is available on a regular basis. For many of us, developing the discipline it takes to initiate and carry on a thoughtful discussions with people who do not view things the way we do is terribly painful these days. Nevertheless it is the price that must be paid by all to gain a participatory democracy that actually gets us somewhere.
WPB:
Shields and Brooks would have some common ground in terms of standards of evidence. The wider population does not. It is not adequate to choose one from column A and one from column B, and assert that they are intellectually equivalent.
I expected from the lede a piece on how the shootings in Texas grabbed the headlines but gun deaths throughout the nation are the true violence that never sleeps. Thirty US citizens die from homicides every day, mean little deaths that go underreported and buried somewhere deep in local media. I was disappointed to read more of the same.
As someone who knows several Trump supporters/cult members... They just hate Obama. Black. Muslim. Liar. And Hillary Clinton. Woman. Liar. Immigrants take jobs that American should have. Immigrants get benefits denied to poor Americans. Obamacare is too expensive. People should work. Etc.
No, it doesn't sound rational. It's meant to sound rational, but it fails. It works on an Econ 101 level sometimes, but even then...
Trump appeals to the very worst in the people who support him. He is inspirational to people who are full of hate. Other than that he is a good guy, right?
Actually, that last bit is meant as sarcasm, which the internet does not support very well. I actually think that a few of his campaign proposals made some sense, such as avoiding foreign wars...I mean, does anyone seek them out? And before entering into trade agreements, try to figure out if they make sense to the American workers? Well that seems obvious, but does anyone ever do that?Is the some allocation for maybe retraining the displaced workers? Anything?
Better relations with Russia? Well of course. Who wants worse relations, really?
But HRC did none of that. Lots of blather about "rights" but nothing about jobs and work. Nothing to address the concerns of the people the Democratic party should be based on, actual "workers." Big fail.
Our esteemed politicos--who have become little more that marionettes for the gun lobby--have been entirely eviscerated by gun extremists. They are all hollow men and women, and every word they utter in the wake of the latest gun tragedy rings hollow.
Americans, please retain Trump's 'quip' last year during his morbid attempt at self-aggrandizing wit : '
I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.'
This quote sums up the president's constitutional inability to show any kind of respect or empathy towards the victims of the now banal shooting sprees in the United States today. There is no hope for reform as long as this man is president.
2
It's a club and cult. And these meek politicians are terrified of getting kicked out of the club. Again, children. CHILDREN. Were slaughtered. And talking heads and low level congressmen are talking about the rights of gun owners are becoming threatened. News flash. Some of the killed were gun owners. Just stop, NRA. Find a new way to make money. Seriously. there is no mental health issue here. It's about the accessibility to too many firearms. Why am I even writing this. These people will sacrifice their own grandchildren to keep their love for guns and money flowing.
1
Bret Stephens keeps getting better. He is slipping, quickly, into the Safire chair, a prestigious post in my humble opinion. And while I like him on the op-ed, he could follow Clyde Haberman and do the NYC column.
This conversation, with Gail as the anchor, has taken on new life.
Congrats to you both.
1
Bret,
So why not adjust the AMT for the current ' tax-evading high-earners' vs getting rid of it?
7
Surprised there was no mention of the 'personhood' language in this tax bill. This language should make the bill a non-starter on its own. Maybe a future Conversation?
1
Actually, also in the NYT from 11/4 a provision of the tax bill:
“An unborn child means a child in utero,” the provision states. “A child in utero means a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.”
That comes pretty close to saying personhood.
I have heard recently that both organized crime and corrupt/over zealous community "watch" groups are abusing the Spyzie app to target and harass people who are a nuisance or are already unstable, pushing them to the brink of suicide and/or violence. I see nothing from any media outlet on this phenomenon but I have heard a couple people mention this in recent months. I went to look at the Spyzie app and similar ones on the market and it seems plausible- It could be the overlooked factor in this sudden surge in suicides and mass killings in this decade.
Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
“Composure” That used to be an American trait. We now let ourselves get stampeded 24/7. Let’s bring back composure.
1
I’m not sure what Bret meant by comparing the carried interest loophole to the capital-gains rate on the sale of a home. What does one have to do with the other? The carried interest low tax rate (even with the latest adjustment requiring a 3-year ownership of a applicable portfolio) is not needed, rewards nothing particularly productive, and an increase in the rate would not unduly cause distress by those who would wind up paying a higher rate.
But the most dangerous issue slipped in my Bret is his desire to “reform” “entitlements.” Reform always sounds reasonable, and entitlement is often now used to sound like an arrogant claim to something undeserved. But what is actually referred to here is a desire by some to reduce health care for the elderly and to impoverish those same elderly who would be destitute were it not for social security. Please stop using deceitful language, or trying to be cute, when such serious business is being discussed.
6
There´s no way not to politicize such events because they are by their very nature political. Americans have all but unfettered access to firearms of every sort because we have made political decisions that make this horror possible. All of it in the name of a well regulated militia. Where is the regulation, where the militia? Here, the originalists, beginning with Scalia, have failed us miserably. If we are to attribute eighteenth-century meanings to the Constitution´s second amendment, then the gun lovers among us should be confined to flintlocks, indian clubs and chicken knives. Would that it were so.
5
I take issue with the term 'ungodly.' It's actually a 'godly' tragedy, because the go-to justification for the divorcing of gun violence from guns is to say that we must put ourselves in god's hands and pray. This leads to the weird conclusion that it is perfectly reasonable to have a congregation armed to the teeth just in case a madman comes through the door. God helps those who help themselves.
The wild-west, now as always spread across the country, is alive and as unwell as it ever was. Perhaps we should next have quick-draw contests, because the lesson of Liberty Valence has obviously been lost on tens of millions of us ...
1
The lesson of Liberty Valance? That you go to a shootout personally unprepared, but have the straight shooter unrequitedly in love with your wife ready to sniper down the bad guy about to kill you in a duel?
American Exceptionalism!
It is my scond favorite western (after Silverado).
“When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.”
The legend here is that “the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”
1
If only guns were the root cause of this violent society . . . . the intractable fact is that guns are but a symptom. Any policy designed to stanch the mayhem must recognize this to be effective.
This conversation is about as sweet as it gets. We see where Ms. Collins and Mr. Stephens disagree, but more important is where they agree. The dialogue is a model I admire. I want to thank both of them for their loyalty to their fellow New Yorkers, who are as concerned about their neighbors as any other folks are. Mr. Stephens's piece about his really close encounter with last Tuesday's attack is eloquent, and Ms. Collins drew my attention to it. The combination of Gail's wit and Bret's earnestness is a winning one, and I am once again grateful to The Times. We have got to come together to address a horrifying problem that is not going away, but is instead exploding. Every week is another massacre. We cannot prevent every single one of these horrors, but with some real will, we can prevent people from being murdered in their church by someone who clearly should not have had even a pellet gun in his hand.
1
How many more hundreds of people would be alive today if the GOP had not let the assault weapon ban expire?
A few gun makers would have had lower profits.
A few Americans would have had to be satisfied with shooting other kinds of guns.
Have these types of weapons defended anyone? Even the person who shot the shooter at this mass shooting used a rifle and only shot the person after the shooting was over. There is no way a "good guy with a gun" would have entered that church.
If 270 million guns is not enough for the good guys, is 350 million? 600 million? When there are 600 million guns in circulation, will that be enough? They don't wear out. And I would estimate the of the 270 million in circulation, 260 million are probably fired less than 20 times in their entire existence.
1
Suburban sprawl and the "everyone has their own car culture" from age 16 upwards has pretty much eliminated any sense of community, as have subdivisions that create homogeneous neighbors. Add to this the abandonment of religious communities (churches, synagogues) by young families and you have self-selected, isolated individuals and families. Social isolation is as deadly as smoking and is almost always a factor in random violence.
1
Thanks for this Gail and Bret. It is such a sad tragic moment in the history of the US. One of the grand ironies of being an ex-pat US citizen is how close we get to our birth country, think the late great Gore Vidal writing US history from Ravello Italy. I find myself, 13.5 years living and working in México, trying to explain US gun "culture". It is insane and obscene, seriously US citizens - most of the world is not like this. My adopted country, much maligned in the US for a host of reasons, guns are highly illegal and not owned by the huge majority of people, violent crime in Mexico is about 40% less than USA per capita, http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Mexico/United-States/Crime and that includes cartel violence which is localized to gangs killing gangs, it is not like the USA where yes my friends do own firearms - why I do not know. Take a look at England, France, Japan, Singapore - no normal people own weapons there. Why on earth do people need to possess weapons that kill - answer - they do not need to. Put down your arms USA.
1
I've noticed that the Muslim extremists that have attacked us have been male immigrants who have felt disenfranchised. I've also noticed that the domestic terrorists who have committed gun violence are also disenfranchised men. We need to recognize that we have a public health crisis on our hands and allow the CDC to research ways we can stop both types of violence from happening. We will never stop all violence but we should try to stop what we can. Lives depend on it.
Tax reform that's not bipartisan is useless. We absolutely need to fix our tax code but it should be fair and balanced. This current proposal will help the wealthy and upper middle class along with corporate America while the rest of us will continue to struggle. A wise person once told me that if a tax plan irritates both Republicans and Democrats you know it's balanced.
I'm hopeful that extremist candidates will be soundly defeated in the next few elections. We will never move forward as a nation if we keep sending nuts to Washington who say offensive things and are incapable of governing. The rest of the world feels sorry for us because they know that we're a failing Republic. We just can't seem to see it.
Gun regulation is a no brainer, especially as it seems such a low bar at times for the wrong types of people to get very serious hardware.
BUT.
When you look at gun ownership, and gun deaths in the US. The highest concentrations run parallel to poverty, unemployment and lower education. States that get A grades are unsurprisingly places like New York and California.
These spurts of mass killing seem to have a lot of connection to rage and disenfranchisement. Trucks can be driven into crowds. Trucks of explosives can go off in front of buildings. There are many ways to express the anger.
There is a tendency to feel the numbers make the difference. They do and they don't. One person stabbed to death matters. Being shot as part of a 26 person spree does not make your death more important. What makes large scale killing frightening is simply the scale and the threat to civic peace generally.
Again. Gun regs need improving. But America refuses to admit that inequity and despair have helped build a global test for demonstrative killing. You can have an assault rifle and shoot one person. Shooting tens of people speaks to something about statement, and this spectacle scenario seems to be feeding on itself. We have to look at this. Spree killing was never so rampant and the means was always there. So regulate guns. But look deeper. Something else is at work.
2
Global human population growth amounts to around 75 million annually, or 1.1% per year. That is about 130 million births against 55 million deaths. Gun deaths are an insignificant amount of that 55 million. The human species is positively thriving and unless you aren’t worried about what humans are doing to the environment we need either birth control or Zardoz.
2
At a risk of drawing ire of some of the readers, I am asking myself whether the mass shooting at Sutherland Springs, Tex., would gave gone differently, if the church parishioners carried arms ready for deployment.
To Tuvw Xyz,
Besides likely killing each other by mistake, armed parishioners would have to be really quick draws to stop the killing from a person shooting a machine gun at close range. More angry people with guns in the tense environment of present-day US sounds dangerous. Better idea -- have the parishioners sell all but one hunting rifle in some government buy-back program and use the proceeds to hire security. It will add to employment and reduce the amount of guns in our communities.
1
I ask: Wouldn't limiting media coverage of mass killings reduce the cause at its source?
At bottom, aren't these acts, whether terror or revenge, based on wanting it shown broadly znd vividly to a wide eyed audience?
Wouldn't we be better off with a short description of what happened... no pictures, and then return to scheduled programming?
Thank you Gail and Brett. Your back-and-forth always is a must-read that is both informative and enjoyable.
I don't understand why members of the NRA don't organize and express their
humane concerns about gun ownership that has reached extreme heights.
There is a perversity to the gun issue in this country - an insanity that
goes beyond cultural/ second amendment issues. We also have an evil congress
that refuses to act on the mass murders that are occurring - they must be held
responsible for not doing their duty as civic leaders to put a stop to this wholesale slaughter. Stand up to the murderous NRA and the weapons makers -
put forth laws to protect people for the sake of the country they serve. We are becoming more and more numb to the horrors happening with guns. It has to stop. We must demand action now!
1
A guy walks into school and kills 20 1st graders and 6 teachers and America's collective response is a nonchalant shrug. The alt-rights response is to accuse bereaved parents of being complicit in a government plot to take their guns away. The left's response is another action group. And yet here we are, almost 5 years and more than 1,500 mass shootings later and nothing has changed. The conversation is the same, the laws are the same, the killings are the same. When we we ever wake up to our social responsibilities and just do something?
1
Strange. I thought only horses wear blinders. Here we have evidence that people wear them too.
Bret,
Your approval of the Trickle-down shuffle is disappointing. Didn't work before so what is the difference this time? It is the old song and dance. Let's all sing it, "I'm goin' ta Kansas City, Kansas City here I come!"
Brett Stevens may not know much about our Virginia candidates, but the Democrats are all solid mainstream folks - Ralph Northam, Justin Fairfax, and Mark Herring - who would continue the policies of the current governor, who has been remarkably successful given that he works with a totally gerrymandered GOP controlled legislature. GOP politicians in the state are becoming increasingly Trumpish, e.g. my congressman Tom `little Trump' Garratt, who couldn't wait to put out a nasty screed about all immigrants after the truck terrorist in NYC, but is silent (and filled with `thoughts and prayers') after every white male shooting terrorist event.
If the GOP wins tomorrow in Virginia, it may indicate that last November's vote was a tipping point.
1
"I’d probably vote for Northam ... mainly because I think that if voters don’t punish Republican candidates for becoming Bannonites, there’s nothing to stop the party from continuing to move in that direction."
Why this is so difficult for so many Republican voters to comprehend is beyond my own, admittedly rather limited comprehension. The calculation that liberal Democrats are worse than non compos mentis Republicans and Bannonites is absurd. The thinking that they can use populists to achieve their own goals is shortsighted. What will be the future of the GOP, and thus of America, when Republican politicians no longer have any incentive to run as anything OTHER than bona fide Trumpists? I don't want Republicans to become Democrats. I want them to remain Republicans, which is not equivalent, or not yet, to the revoltingly coarse ethnic nationalism Trump represents.
Could one not have voted for the GOP senatorial and House candidates AND Hillary Clinton in the last election? Divided government and gridlock would have been nothing new and its continuance preferable to the elevation of a venomous charlatan. Never think that because things are bad, that they cannot quickly become worse. Voting for Trump, a supposedly nonpartisan dealmaker, in order to help alleviate political gridlock is like opting for seppuku to end a headache. The policies sane Republicans care about will be destroyed in time, along with much else, if their party is handed over to Stephen Bannon.
1
The empirical evidence is in: This fall, white American men are the most dangerous threat to the lives of our families and our neighbors. 54% of shootings are in some way linked to domestic violence, and almost all of those are perpetrated by men who have threatened or harmed their wives, girlfriends, children, or extended family. The Texas shooter didn't like his mother in law. When I heard this I was struck by the fact that the report takes it for granted--that these crimes are perpetuated by men, American men, on American soil, with American guns, against women and children. And then, anyone else who happens to be around when they get angry. There is every possible evidence that taking restricting guns--in Japan, in Australia, in Britain, in Scandinavia--in almost every other Western country, drastically reduces violent death. Do our own lives and the lives of our families and children matter less to us? Is that it? Where are the 'right-to-lifers' on this one? The time is now. Any elected official who is against gun control is actively endangering the life of American citizens.
143
Do you remember not too long ago we had a white President. To prove to his father that he was macho, he decided to take the country to 2 unfounded wars. He has never been held accountable for it. In America violence whether it is in the form of guns or wars, is always the first resort. Then, years and decades later we wonder why we are such a violent nation. The people who form the US are generations of immigrants, who have sought refuge in this country as a result of wars, famines, plagues, social religious or political repressions. Then why do these same people who now form America, choose to inflict violence on others as well as each others.
2
Yes. I will believe that the "right to unborn life" crowd cares about human life when they are against guns, war, and violence in all forms.
Amen to what you write!
Everyone who is concerned about our national bloodbath (is there anyone who isn't?) should read Nick Kristof's excellent, comprehensive essay on the subject of guns in America today and what we as citizens can do about it. Calling for "gun control" is the No. 1 losing proposition.
One thing I did not see in his piece, which very sensibly draws an analogy between gun ownership and automobile ownership, is calling for a campaign that requires liability insurance for all gun owners and gun dealers. There is no reason on God's green earth why someone who is walking around with a deadly weapon should not have to buy insurance to protect himself and the rest of us in the event of an accident, including the theft of that weapon, or the illegal sale of that weapon, for the subsequent use in the slaughter of innocent people. Perhaps this is already the case for gun dealers? I don't know. But as others have mentioned in this column and others, at least insurance would help to cover the costs of those innocent bystanders maimed for life by the bloodlust of murderers.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/06/opinion/how-to-reduce-sho...®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
21
Excellent point. There was a heart breaking story in the Times two weekends ago about a woman who survived the Las Vegas shoot but is now a paraplegic. The lead of the story was about her MD telling her this was now her new reality, and, PS, her health insurance would probably not pay for anything she now needs. Imagine the nightmare of being caught in the crossfire, and THEN learning that our country has virtually no system to help people in her situation (other than Medicare and Medicaid, the latter of which is perpetually on the chopping block).
If our spineless politicians are so beholden to the NRA they refuse to regulate something as deadly as weapons in the same way they regulate cars and drivers, then they should be obligated to provide resources for those innocent Americans who suffer as a result of their cowardice and venality.
The sad thing, though, is if we had an insurance program for this sort of thing, sort of like what we have for flood insurance, it would soon face the same fate as flood insurance, ie, the system would be broke because of the number of claims. Because we live in a nation where black is white and up is down and more guns keep us safer, right?
1
so does this include kitchen knives and chainsaws?
Poverty is violence. Inequality is violence. Wanting to be rich, even if that means others will be poor, is violence. We need to focus on the economic violence that creates this lost world of ours. No, don't celebrate billionaires' 'visions', work for equality. Work for the common good, the greater good. Create societies, and economic policies, and tax policies that actually help build the 'more perfect union'. So much noise about so many things; but a person's home, neighborhood, food, education, job, health care, access to culture and community are the key. Love is the key. Large concentrations of wealth destroy that. Our choice: love or wealth.
12
I have trouble with Mr. Stephens' support of the tax bill. It is meant to hurt Democrats and the middle class. It punishes New York and California homeowners. It is not good for charities, either. There will be little incentive for the middle class to give to charities. It is simply more poor and politicized legislation from the GOP.
14
Mass killers are an odd bunch whose acts are a product of individual personality. We are curious about what motivates them but, even if we find out, we only learn why one such killing happened. The next killing will be an entirely different story.
The victims of mass killings are arbitrary, too. But their stories aren't a matter of morbid curiosity. They speak of the cruel randomness of life and how we have so little control over our individual fates. That is the one universal theme of these killings. And so they are really about the victims and how chance decided their fate. A few of the victims' stories are particularly compelling and are told repeatedly by the media. But all their stories are newsworthy and, as far as I'm concerned, their cruel fate is what these mass killings are all about.
Sure, "randomness of life" and "control over our fates" is " a universal theme of these killings." It is not however the "one" and only theme. Easy access to lethal weapons is also an important part of this carnage. I have recently heard pundits say "this is the world we live in". No this is the COUNTRY we live in. We Americans are unique(exceptional?) in this regard.
We are not exceptional. Terrorist mass killings in Pakistan and, I suspect, in Turkey and many Middle Eastern countries, far exceed the killings per capit in the US. And we are not first in Europe where we are only a little above average, measuring killings per capita.
Exceptional in easy access to guns leading to gun deaths.
It's hard for me to understand how a conservative can be OK with the tax "reform" on the table that will increase the deficit. And not level any playing fields that I can see. "That loophole is no different from paying the capital-gains rate on the sale of a home" - I don't get that either. Someone who makes their living year after year on capital gains is different from a one-time sale of your home that in most cases, will help support your retirement. That said, I could go for an across the board elimination of the mortgage interest deduction, or at least phasing it out over time. But caps that hurt one region without another are just stupid. I'd like to see more corporate welfare cut - the cut in the rate would be fine if there weren't a zillion ways for corporations to work the Fed on one side or another.
7
Thank you both for the beginning of this conversation. When two people who profoundly disagree on most issues do not disagree on the horrors of gun violence in this country, that is a real start. This must be fixed. It's not only about the dead, whose numbers are now staggering. How many of our citizens now live with loss and pain and post traumatic stress because It is so easy for a crazy to become a mass murderer? This should not be the new normal.
9
It really is a mental health issue. And one thing we know for sure, nearly anyone can be afflicted. All the more reason to regulate guns better. Like registering cars and licensing drivers, shouldn't we know a little more about the people who desire to purchase tools that can be used to kill dozens of people from dozens or hundreds of feet away, even through walls? That's not a lot to ask, honestly.
4
The deep sense of male inadequacy and insecurity that drives men to buy assault rifles in the first place is indeed a mental health issue.
There is a great deal of fake news currently circulating in this country about the stock market and the desirability of tax cuts.
Contrary to widely accepted economic theory, the economy in general and the stock market in particular do not thrive on order and predictability. What they welcome most is wild spending associated with chaos and confusion, exactly the type of government Donald Trump is planning to give us more of now.
Along with tax cuts, massive increases in military and health expenditures, repairs of the hurricane damage, spending on the opioid crisis and the building of a stupid Wall, all of this will work well for jobseekers and shareholders until the day comes that it doesn’t.
I am anticipating a gigantic stock market crash before the middle of next year; one big enough to finally persuade a few Republicans to take a serious look at the benefits to this country of the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. I have taken my lumps in the market before and taking another one soon to get rid of this ignoramus would be well worth the price to me.
6
I suspect that failure to pass the tax cut bill would soon be followed by a "correction" in the markets. Most of the run-up in share prices was fueled by the belief about investors that a Trump victory would mean less regulation and a tax cut. Trump is delivering on the former, but removing regulations that protect our air and water won't drive profits anytime soon. It's anticipation of the tax cut that drove the market higher.
1
Millions of people own guns which are extremely lethal but they handle them well and responsibly and secure them from those who might misuse them. Neither they nor their weapons are the cause of these massacres but the solutions proposed are aimed at them. The rationale is that for the good of the community all the guns should be removed from private hands which could be used in these massacres. How likely is that to happen? Nobody knows for sure but the responsible people certainly will feel that they are not the problem.
If guns could be registered and users licensed, then it would be far easier to determine when people who are highly likely to harm themselves or others have guns and to confiscate them and to prevent them from buying ammunitions until those people are trustworthy, again. It would take a lot of work but it's feasible, but only if gun owners are confident that unless they pose a clear threat to others, they will be trusted to use their guns responsibly. The rhetoric in the media prevents such a solution. The idea that suddenly all gun owners are going to discard the guns or that the population is going to rise up and take all those guns away is kind of unrealistic.
1
In Australia....before they BANNED AND CONFISCATED all privately owned guns....they first put into law a "simple registry" which was going to only do what you suggest here. It sounded so sensible and benign, nobody there opposed it.
When they swiftly moved to ban and confiscate....the Australian government (not hemmed in by any pesky "Bill of Rights") simply used that registry as a "road map" to go house to house and roundup every single gun and rifle.
Today, no Australian citizens owns a gun. And it is peaceful alright -- the peace of sheeple who have no rights. (It was never very violent in the first place, as a small remote nation of mostly whites and asians.)
The Second Amendment comes SECOND for a very good reason -- it is as important as the FIRST Amendment. Give one up and the rest come tumbling down.
This country is obsessed with drugs and guns and attempts to control them has always failed as per the massive failure of prohibition. But there is one way to make the best of a bad situation: tax them. For guns the tax should be a use tax so whether legal or illegal you have to pay a yearly possession tax with hugh penalties if caught in arrears. It’s like the gambling tax: if you sell drugs illegally and don’t declare your illegal income and pay tax on it you will be hounded the rest of you life by mounting penalties and your future income, legal or illegal will be taken by the Feds.
1
Dude, you have not really thought that through. How would you tax ILLEGAL guns? Do you think criminals pay taxes? or buy auto insurance? or follow ANY laws?
And we all know how well the "war on drugs" has worked out. Those drug dealers are just so terrified of "future tax bills"!
One additional note on the GOP tax plan: presently, it calls for ending deductions onstudent loan interest, as well as a tax on larger university endowments. Is that not doubly anti-education?
Re: the supposed propriety of delaying discussions of gun policy in order that we first honor the dead... given the frequency at which these episodes are occurring, the dead of one event are barely identified and buried before there's a new batch of deceaased to mourn. Were I a casualty of gun violence, I would consider anything but immediate calls for policy change (so no more of my fellow humans would meet the same tragic fate) a complete dishonor of my life.
8
Why would you think the GOP is pro-education? Texas is often a good bellwether for Republican ideas. In 2012, the GOP's platform included this:
"We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."
Yes, the Texas GOP believes that students should not develop "criticial thinking skills" because they might question their parents. That is simply authoritarianism wrapped up as a school "reform." Good training for a country led by our Mussolini-like president.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects...
1
I’ll say it again: the Republican Party obviously WANTS people to die. All their current policies point to that outcome. I guess it must be their preferred form of population reduction, since they’re against most forms of birth control. And instead of enacting effective laws and regulations to protect people, they’re telling us to carry a gun, and pray.
I’m not going to carry a gun - I’m a 64-year-old retired teacher, and with my eyesight and coordination I would be a public danger with a gun. But I certainly am praying. Every chance I get. And I’m also voting today, for people who think ordinary lives are worth something.
3
Gail wonders "if maybe the victims deserve a little space where we can just think about them, and the loss, before we throw ourselves into the fight." The answer is that the victims can, and probably do, ignore the roar of the media, at least the media that's not in their faces asking how they feel. By all means start the fight immediately because the fickle public, often lead by a headline driven media, will move on to the next story long before the victims will be able to move on from their loss. Make the fight the next story for once.
5
From congresspeople to talk show callers, the message is, we love our guns, this is the price we're willing to pay.
It isn't about hunters. It isn't even about the 2nd amendment. It is about a deep ugly paranoia running through followers of the far right. And Trump, the NRA, etc, they're happy about this. It's easy to amplify this neurosis, and they get a paralyzed government, more sales, a citizenry that doesn't have a clue about their own potential.
It is too sad. I can't bring myself to be outraged anymore.
7
Sorry, Gail. I don't trust Bret Stephens.
He has supported the party that has enacted the policies that he now is hedging about.
Respectful debate has no meaning when one side is for the rights of working people and the other is in favor of their exploitation to enrich the wealthy.
This is especially true when it has gone beyond talk, as it has now, and people are going to suffer.
Stephens picked his side with the GOP. It was his choice and he has to live with it.
6
Any brief look at the history of humanity reveals that much of it can be tied to the development of weapons. Some of the neolithic stone axes are exceedingly beautiful and it seems unlikely they were used to chop down trees. The appeal that the best way to solve a problem was to kill your enemy possesses a long history and long haired individuals like Jesus and John Lennon usually ended up the same way when they had other ideas. I doubt that any nation lacks an initial conception without this primal impulse of violent birth. There has always been a huge appreciation of the efficient beauty of weapons from the ancient times to the nuclear armed current missiles but the problems presumably solved by their use never seem to go away . And today the weapons have become so wonderfully fierce that their enthusiastic destruction cannot be separated from the suicide of the whole planet. A nation seduced with the delight of weapon power as I was as a kid with firecrackers in Brooklyn back in 1932 perhaps might be tempted to have second thoughts.
1
I have to preface this by saying that I enjoy reading Bret Stephens more than I thought (with the notable exception of that “Communism Through Rose Colored Glasses” column).
I would ask how the mortgage interest deduction— and state and local deductions!— benefit the mortgage industry. Indirectly, yes— but studios in Manhattan won’t suddenly become affordable because people can no longer deduct mortgage interest. A mortgage over $500,000 might be excessive in Detroit— in NYC, it might get you a one bedroom and only if you can snag a really good deal in a so-so neighborhood. Meanwhile, when certain homeownership programs target homes priced below a certain percentile in a county, it seems one could reduce the mortgage interest deduction for homes in the 90th or 95th of a county. So this seems— like the elimination of the state & local deduction— targeted to erode the wealth of blue states.
Additionally, it seems a bit disingenuous to claim that lowering the corporate tax rate will increase taxes in any way— those Paradise Papers seem to suggest that some corporations aren’t paying ANY country taxes, no matter what rates are in effect.
And last, a quick commendation for disagreeing without being disagreeable— its a good example to see.
1
"about mental health and has nothing to do with guns."
D.P. Kelley spent 5 years in the Air Force before he was booted out after his court martial and conviction with a bad conduct discharge for battering his wife and stepson. The Air Force then neglected to put this conviction into the national data base that would have prevented his legally buying a rifle.
I wonder what kind of psychiatric vetting process there is when one enlists in the Air Force. Mr. Kelley was also a licensed security guard in Texas. How absurd is that?
It would seem that in addition to gun control legislation, there should be more attention paid to who can become a licensed guard and perhaps the vetting of enlistees to Armed Forces should be increased.
7
Guns equal personal power. They settle arguments.
It starts at the top. As a nation, we settle arguments by going to war. I'm a Vietnam vet. We visited terror, 24/7, on a little country that never attacked us because we were afraid that they MIGHT. It was the same with Iraq.
We live in a time and place where daily body counts are as matter of fact as they were during the Vietnam war. We deserve what we get.
2
When Ted Cruz made his hideous "New York values" putdown during a primary debate, Trump blasted Cruz with his sole worthy comment, when he went back to 9/11 and remarked on the determination, courage and cooperation with which city residents faced the country's worst attack.
Trump brought none of that commendable attitude to last Tuesday's terror attack in Manhattan. He used the tragedy to mock our justice system, and to disparage immigration, which he dismissed even apart from the tragedy. He was cowardly and exploitive. Trump's response was cynical and unworthy of real New York values.
8
Bret, I'm proud to live in New Jersey, just not so proud of our current governor. And for me, tomorrow is a new easy choice: Phil Murphy.
1
Guns. Where does all this intransigent opposition to any practical regulation originate? Why?
The U.S. and Russia produce more arms (guns and etc.) than the other 8 major industrialized nations combined.
Of the ten greatest arms producing Corporations in the whole world, seven are U.S. Corporations.
Guns are U.S.
what a profound disconnect...
but anyway, how many guns does one man need?
As many as he can afford.
2
I think one of the things we could do about this is talk more about neuroscience. A blow to the head in an accident, a degenerative brain disease or tumor can quickly turn a "good guy" into a "bad guy." Secure attachment affects the way our brain develops, and even if we have a miserable upbringing, positive social interaction and face-to face relating can make a lot of repairs. We spend too much time in front of screens and distracted by calls, emails and texts (too much distraction in a parent will produce insecure attachment in a child). As we become increasingly socially isolated because of technology, we lose our capacity for empathy, along with many other of our best human qualities. The more insecurely attached and socially isolated people we create, the more shootings we will have.
You can't shoot other people when you viscerally understand your interconnectedness.
1
More deaths of innocent people
It is unconscionable that nothing is ever done about the insane proliferation of guns in the USA.
The rest of the world is weary of hearing about it ; sadly, we're starting to tune out.
We have no power to put it right.
Americans DO.
4
Until we enact the obvious gun laws, which are so effective in other first world nations, this horror will never stop. Every domestic dispute, every argument in a bar, every episode of road rage, and every individual going through a bout of despair will continue to be a tragedy waiting to happen.
Guns and our insane gun culture represent a form of domestic terrorism.
7
You started off so well here, Brett -- then retreated to the factually void claptrap that conservatives peddle as "economics." There is no similarity between the gain realized in the sale of a home and the income realized through a carried interest. None. The latter is always based on the services provided by a fund manager; it is earned income -- essentially no different than a holiday bonus given to an office clerk. It is taxed like investment gain only to provide an absurd benefit to uber-wealthy, Republican-tending donors. Period.
1
The Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 prohibited the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms. We are now over 20 years out, with 24-7 news, digital media, and angry, and attention getting men, who have no qualms about buying these type of weapons and using them in revenge for domestic issues, in work related issues, in issues of anger over mounting casino loses, in terrorist incidents over politics or religion, in 15 year revenge over issues of school as a child(less we forget Newton), etc. It is past time to ban assault weapons and large magazines. Those who already own them, would need to register them, and have their name go through all databases for criminal activity, domestic issues, etc. To not want to do this in the name of the second amendment is becoming a mental health issue for those who insist on no changes in gun laws, no matter how many people die or are wounded. It is past time to get this done!
2
Just a comment on Trump's being "about mental health".
Eliminating mental health treatment and substance abuse treatment is to him just a minor consequence of delivering on his campaign promises regarding ending Obamacare and providing "Yuge" tax cuts.
I am truly scared to see what mass shooting event has to occur before politicians (and we the people) finally decide that we need stricter, more effective gun laws. Just how bad does it really have to be? And when exactly do we find out?
1
Thoughts and prayers are not working to prevent massacres of our fellow Americans. Words are cheap and in this case these particular words are cheapened by the politicians who utter them. Maybe the politicians could change their words into actions.
Maybe turn the tables on the Gun lobby, by calling them up and telling them that gun reform is going to happen, whether they like it or not. Perhaps they could sweeten the pot by offering the Gun Lobby money, sort of the same thing the Gun Lobby does for the Congress and Senate. And as far as Trump's contention and that of the Gun Lobby and Congress, that this is a Mental Health issue, is a false equivalence argument. It gives mental Health issues a bad name. How many people with these issues are running around murdering masses of people?
You do not have to interfere with the Second Amendment to ban assault weapons or "bumps" that could turn a weapon into an assault weapon.
1
Nobody's vote is a cop out, only not voting is. I am not sure if the writers meant the latter but protest votes when one dislikes both candidates send a message as well if they are counted.
In Britain guns are owned by a relatively few who are vetted by the police and a few of our criminals who obtain them illegally. The death rate for gun shootings is 6.6 annually per 100,000 of the British population. The corresponding number for USA is 112.6.
Could there be any relationship between the availability of guns and the death rates?
Gail: the bill doesn’t do anything about a huge loophole known as “carried interest” that drastically reduces the tax rates for folks like hedge fund operators and, um, real estate developers.
Bret: That loophole is no different from paying the capital-gains rate on the sale of a home.
Dear Bret - let me be clear on what you're saying. I buy a home, hold and maintain this asset for decades, hope that its value might increase but without any guarantee and then finally sell it. So the capital gain I may or may not realize is the same as "carried interest" which is essentially short-term deferred compensation for people in charge of gambling with other peoples money? Please explain this equivalency.
2
I am relieved by the President's assurances that the tragedy in Texas is a mental health issue unrelated to guns. Now we must merely eliminate insanity (and of course evil), and there will be no issue whatever with guns. I spoke to a good friend of mine in Australia, where the toll of gun violence is a tiny fraction of what we face, to congratulate him on his nation's remarkable eradication of mental illness and evil, and asked him how they did it. He promised to get back to me, and I will forward the data to Mr. Trump.
Following (and excluding) election night, the first time I really wept for the presidency because of 45 was when I saw President Obama laying a wreath on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The realization that America lost its representative to do those kinds of things with dignity, the leadership to mourn our dead, even ceremonially, was overwhelming. It still is.
1
Call your congress-members and remind them that they work for US, We the People of the United States. 202-224-3121.
Tell them we want a ban on assault weapons, bump stocks, and high capacity magazines.
We want more rigorous background checks that close the gun show loophole and that provides more time for the checks to be completed. We want federally funded research into the causes and prevention of gun violence. We want all newly manufactured guns equipped with smart gun technology.
Congress-members keep track of the telephone calls they receive and the opinions that are expressed. Let them know that if they do not give us this list of things, we will vote them out of office and vote in people who will give us the legislation we want.
We get the government we deserve.
The 2nd Amendment was about the right of a free state to maintain a well regulated militia and to that end "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” The need for a militia in today's world is dubious. We have a well established and well regulated military and police system in place, but perhaps were individual gun ownership tied to membership in a militia, where members would be proven to be well regulated through vetting processes, guns could be kept from the insane without a new Constitutional amendment.
1
An article in Slate yesterday profiled the "shooter": the gun, not the man who used it. Maybe that's how we could finally turn the conversation to the real problem: the easy access to firearms in this country and the human wreckage this access unleashes. As to Bret and Gail-great conversation!
1
I have two ideas that may help increase the chances of gun control, neither of which I can do myself.
One is for foreign tourists to actively boycott the USA because of the fear of gun violence. When cities and tourist destinations suffer financially, they may more willing to let the politicians know that they demand reasonable action. Only money seems to work in Washington anymore.
The second is much more difficult to even suggest. I think of Emmett Till and his mother's decision to have an open casket so that the world could see what was done to her son's body. That action helped many Americans understand the need for civil rights. If one very brave parent could allow a photo of his or her child's body (the face could be blurred) and the damage done by an assault weapon, the NRA and the cowardly politicians that won't dare cross them would be shamed and exposed as the evil they are. The pain that parent would experience would be horrible, but it already is. The knowledge that their child's horrific murder might save other children, to make something positive come from such tragedy, could help them as well as the rest of the country.
Bret fails to mention that 80% of the tax cuts in the Republican plan would ultimately go to the richest 10%. Now I understand why people get upset at the manifest unfairness of this, but there are sound economic reasons why this would be bad for the country. Let's see if we can understand why. Economists have a concept called the velocity of money. It is the frequency that money changes hands in domestic commerce. I like to think of it as measuring how useful the money is.
Here's an example. Suppose the government gives Scrooge McDuck a Billion for advice on the comic book market, If Scrooge puts the bucks in his basement, and forgets about it, that doesn't help the economy at all. That Billion has a velocity of 0.
Money going to the Rich has a lower velocity than money going to the non-rich. The Rich spend a lower percentage of their money. What's a guy or gal who already has so many houses he can't remember how many & an elevator for his horse gonna spend his money on? The answer is he is going to use it to speculate. There is a correlation between inequality & financial speculation. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1661746 Speculation is bad for the economy. That money has a very low velocity. AND it increases risk which we have seen in 2008 ain't a good thing.
Since 2007, the velocity of money has plunged. https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2016/04/a-plodding-dollar-the-recent-dec...
Sorry, I meant to say "80% of the tax cuts in the Republican plan would ultimately go to the richest 1%."
Let's not overlook the fact that under the GOP's proposed tax plan, the 'lucky' victims of the Texas church massacre who survive their injuries, would be denied the ability to deduct the costs of their medical care from their taxable income. (Although, given the seriousness of their injuries, many of them may be forced into bankruptcy anyway.)
However, even if the GOP tax plan is enacted, people will still be able to make tax-deductible donations to the NRA Foundation.
1
I've been an expat American for over 13 years, and it despairs me to admit that when I saw the news of this latest massacre I just turned the page, not even interested in reading the monstrous details -- because they're always numbingly the same. And it never ends.
When I was a child the 1966 murders of eight nurses by Richard Speck in Chicago dominated the news for weeks. Now the coverage of these mass shootings shift to below the fold after just a few days -- and then disappear. Until the next one, and the next one, and the next one.
1
"If there was ever a time we needed a leader who could help us make sense of things..." Great question, Gail. Here is my answer: THE NEW LEADER IS US. We have become the new leader. Learning together, acting collectively, as one integrated, interdependent whole. Watch this video through to the end. https://youtu.be/SlICLWnFgUc.
Want examples? How about the New York Times itself! This medium is adapting, using new AI for moderation, and creating discussions like this very article, and this forum, where I am typing right now.
Talk about a profound shift. The newspaper is changing right before our eyes. We, the people, can now add our voices to the conversation. And read what others' think about what we write. Journalism has gone public. And, with it, so has the evolution of consciousness. As we "see more," we can take evermore creative initiative for the benefit of all life.
On 9/11, through all the horror and sorrow, I felt strongly connected to my fellow citizens.
As we re-live horror time after time after time after time, I only now hear the tribalism screaming, even in the phrases 'well that is how we deal with this as New Yorkers/Texans/Las Vegas....' let alone the go to arguments about this that and the other that have become rote after every. new. horror.
we are falling apart as a country. this has worn down our humanity to a point where we no longer connect. And I can't help but believe, to a point where this will just escalate unless we can once and for all be horrified as a country and act together to DO something concrete as a collection of human beings, not tribes
Sadly, we are the most violent society on earth, killing each other more than those in any other country. Maybe this all stems from our military-based culture and mindset, our willingness to invade and change regimes around the world, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the process? We have become immune to random death and violence in the US. Yes, we cry and pray, but don't do a thing otherwise to change the dynamic. Our esteemed veterans are people who were trained to kill, and when they come home, often turn on anyone within reach. On top of it all, and as if guns are not bad enough, drugs are rampant, both legal and illegal, and little is being done to put a complete stop to it. You can gloss over it if you want, and pretend we're a great society, but it doesn't take much to see what's right in front of our eyes. Heck, even a blind person can see this for what it is...a sick society.
Good question regarding where is our sense of community. It is there, in checkout lines at the grocery, at church on Sundays, at school parent/teacher and parents-only conferences and get-togethers, in the high school sports viewing stands, in the hallways at work, in the seats and hallways at Nats and Redskins games....
Virtually everywhere we look, we can see signs of our sense of community. All we need to do is look.
We should not allow Donald Trump's sense of disunity, distrust, and hatred infect us. Because We the People are better than that.
The simple solution is for each side to give up a sacrosanct view. The right should accept much stricter gun laws; and the left should accept much stricter abortion laws. Both give up something important to them, but it is the innocent who benefit the most. Society wins as two entrenched views of violence are replaced with positions directed toward life. This is the common sense view, and would be an amazing gain for our country.
It's unfortunate that the tagline for this OpEd on the front page, seems to lump the Lower Manhattan van on bicyclist attack with the recent mass murders in the US by gun. These are two very different things, as with the latter group of mass murders by gun, it is the US that collectively has ENABLED such killings, by way of our lax gun laws. Statistics show that gun deaths DECREASE with tougher gun regulation.
This is very different than reducing other types of murder committed by means OTHER than guns, as guns are DESIGNED to kill, not to mention the fact that when we ENABLE folks to amass 1000s rounds of ammo, bumpstocks, ballistic vests, etc., it can only be for one reason, and it AIN'T good. It's far harder for us to control or predict what a person will do by simply 'renting a van', or driving down the West Side Highway.
But when we allow a person to amass their own private arsenal, there can be no denying that the outcome is not going to be pretty.
So President Trump believes this shooting was a mental health issue. Yet, he repealed an Obama policy that would keep people with severe mental health issues from legally obtaining guns! The shooter in this instance may not have been flagged by this, but perhaps a future one would.
The NRA keeps pointing out that guns don't kill people, people kill people. Seems to me that keeping people with these mental health issues away from guns fits right into their philosophy, as does, keeping convicted domestic abusers and those on the "no fly" list from obtaining guns!
What is so heartbreaking about this incident is that even with existing laws, this shooter should not have been able to legally buy a gun, but unfortunately someone dropped the ball.
1
When can we start calling this a civil war? The agenda seems to be nothing more than uncontrolled access to guns of all varieties. If there were any other politics, religion or skin color involved in these cases, we'd be calling this amount of violence a civil war or terrorism. Instead, it is a monster of our own creation that is eating us.
Bret and Gail, my son is a high school teacher in one of the poorest districts of NYC public school system. The students come from poor families, immigrants too, yes many Muslims and many who will be the first in the family to attend college, if stars align for them! These kids would do anything to attend Stuyvesant high, they have the caliber but not the means. So the principal of the school where my son teaches, and his colleagues have created a school for wannabe Stuyvesant students. Each day, against all odds, these students attend school, and it becomes a moment to celebrate. They aren’t dodging bullets they are surviving all the challenges life throws at them, one chemistry physics biology math course after another.
2
Arguments aside, I expect a conversation to be more diverse, to show different viewpoints and such. The two writers were merely the echo chamber for each other.
There are no pros and cons when it comes to mass murder, and intelligent observers from a variety of ideological positions agree that we need more regulation of guns. Stephens has actually argued in favor of abolishing the Second Amendment. Do you think one of them should have been "pro-gun" to provide more diversity?
They don't agree about the tax bill.
I am an optimistic person by nature. But when it comes to the continual flow of gun violence and tragedy in this country I am nothing but pessimistic that anything will be done so long as we have a president and political party that takes its lead from the mega lobby known as the NRA. For every past, present, and future gun carnage, the reaction never wavers: A moment of prayer for the departed and the insistence that the problem is people, not guns. The solution? Replace the inertia of the GOP by installing Democrats to control the House and Senate in 2018 and defeat Trump (or Pence) in 2020. The gun slaughter of innocent people should spur bipartisan action. Because it hasn't and won't, it's time to change the political landscape in this country.
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The bottom line, simply: guns kill people just as disease kills patients. Do we protect the rights of disease, or remove the pathogen from the body as best we can? Is the proliferation of weapons a public health issue? Do we blame infectious disease transmission on the patient, and stand by and shrug? Is blaming the mental state of a killer really any different than excusing a disease from blame in the needless death of a patient? How many more "precious, irreplaceable" lives would there be if only the spread of the disease of easy guns was contained! What a Right to Life Issue, indeed!
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Bret. I always appreciate your point of view without always agreeing. However this time you made two important factual errors in discussing the tax bill. First you compare carried interest to the exemption from gain on sale for individual homeowners. Actually this critically important element of many middle class retirement plans is repealed under the proposal.
Secondly you describe how repealing the interest deduction is a good way to stop subsidizing real estate interests. Here again the new law retains full interest deductions only for trump like real estate investors. Literally everyone else's ability to deduct interest is restricted. I wonder who thought of this?
Balanced tax reform makes good sense, even lowering corporate taxes while closing corporate loopholes. Eliminating homeowners ability to create a nest egg and retirement cushions to pay for top one per cent breaks is counter productive and will hurt home prices throughout out the country.
One more point that I don't think has been discussed. By giving full expensing of capital investments it makes it easier for companies to replace salaried workers. This is emblematic of the entire bill which rewards capital and penalizes work.
1
I hate to sound harsh or unsympathetic, but I grow tired of seeing photos and videos of people holding candlelight vigils or piling bouquets in the wake of the latest gun tragedy. Let's face it, many of the faces you see in those crowds would turn from being mournful to murderous if you uttered the words gun control or gun safety or proposed any measure that would infringe on their god-given rights to own firearms. The majority of the mourners that you see probably agree unquestionably with both the governor and Attorney General of Texas that if people were allowed to tote guns along with their Bibles to church, in the words of Sam Cooke, what a wonderful world it would be.
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And, of course, we all remember poor Sam Cooke's fate. A gun was involved.
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People are allowed to carry guns in church in Texas, if the church agrees. Many do. Maybe someone in that church had one and was killed before he got it out. The killer (nor any civilian) should never have had access to his assault rifle. Until we end this mass ownership of military weapons by the general public, this will continue. What has to occur? First graders massacred, church goers, congressman gunned down.....I really want to leave this country. I’m 67 and I just want to get out.
Besides the vigils, we listen to stories of how god is with them and they are now with god, etc
And they will go to church next week and thank god for whatever.
Hey, Bret, stop knocking NJ, my old home state.
I relate to Gail's response to Trump's to hometown terror: "Maybe that was part of the reason I was so enraged at President Trump for instantly trying to make the story about how tough he is on ISIS. I can’t remember the last time I got so viscerally angry."
I can remember--it's usually about an hour ago, the president provides so many opportunities to offend.
There's a n excellent story today comparing mass shootings in various countries. The conclusion is amazing: the more guns a nation has, the more mass shootings.
Knock me over with a feather. And yet, after ruminating sorrowfully about the impact of mental illness, the president fails to acknowledge he made it easier for sick people to obtain guns--one of the first things he signed in the Oval Office.
Only in America can people say, with a straight face, that guns don't kill people, people do.
There were so many issues raised on this piece today, that I'll forgive Bret for the knock on NJ but I won't on his praise for this lopsided tax giveaway.
More and more analyses predict that most of the middle class ($50-$100K) will pay higher taxes in 2026. I just love studies like these based on so many unknown variables and faulty assumptions.
Keep it simple: last week someone wrote, "great, America is now Kansas." Asking middle class families to subsidize tax cuts for billionaires is as warped as arguing over guns.
This country grows sicker by the day.
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It's too painful and pointless to talk about guns, so let me hit one point about taxes: "eliminating the deduction for state and local taxes is just a raid on the blue states."
I live in a generally but not always red state with a blue cap, heart, and patch on its knee, and if this geographic metaphor makes no sense, let me just say: sorry about Mike Pence. We didn't want him either. But we aren't swimming in state and local taxes, compared to California.
But because you didn't have to itemize to claim this deduction, it's always been a noticeable help to my family, who until last year earned generally about $10,000/yr under the median household income. This figure was supplemented by freelance income; despite our best intentions, we didn't end up saving enough for the taxes, since for the sake of the child we tried to be not-poor and to instill the middle-class value of striving ("of course you can go on the school trip; we'll find the money somehow") instead of the despair of not participating (this has paid off in the form of a highly motivated college student, but I digress—or maybe it's relevant).
Anyway, when I plugged in my state and local taxes and went to the next page of the online tax preparer and saw that dip in what we owed, it was always a relief. I know a lot people who don't itemize who err in thinking they get the mortgage deduction, but they may miss the state and local tax deduction.
11
But you can't take the deduction for state and local taxes, AND the standard deduction -- for most people, the standard deduction is more than they could ever deduct. And THAT is going up considerably if the tax reform passes. That should benefit your family, if your income is in the $40K range ($10K below the average of $50K per family per year).
That hasn't been my experience, Concerned. I took the standard deduction, and I'm sure I entered state and local taxes and that this affected the amount owed. Maybe this was because a portion of the income was freelance? It's true that the mortgage deduction is only available if you itemize.
The new standard deduction probably will lower my taxes even if what I pay toward state and local taxes is in effect taxed again. But I would rather have the benefits of all the things my taxes pay for that I can't buy on my own, like schools and roads.
"There ought to be a law." It is a natural response. Very often though, that does not work.
Alcoholism kills, and destroys lives. Prohibition did not work.
Drug addiction kills, and destroys lives. The War on Drugs has not worked.
Guns kill, and destroy lives. What will really happen with laws? We should try? Ill considered trying has not worked out well in far too many other cases. We need to solve this problem, not do feel good.
There are over 300 million guns. If we used Canada's much-approved-of laws, and reduced that to Canada's proportions, that would be over 90 million. Does anyone imagine these guys would not have gotten their hands on some of 90 million guns?
The vast majority of killings come in ones and twos, and not with assault rifles. If we magically did away with all assault rifles, the vast majority of killings would go on just as before, with all the other guns.
At least end those? Before assault rifles existed, we had mass killings. The Bath School disaster in Michigan in 1927 used explosives. The Oklahoma City bombing killed a lot more than any assault rifle ever did. The mother of all mass killings on 9/11 used no guns at all nor explosives either, just box cutters. Ending assault rifles won't end mass killings.
At least end those with assault rifles? That is too narrow a view for a mass effort to end mass killings and a lot more killings that are devastating our country.
"Gun control" sounds good, but won't do it. It is feel good, not real.
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Apologist nonsense. We do ourselves a great disservice by ignoring facts and making perfect the enemy of good.
Gun control in all kinds of places across the world work just fine. They do what they are supposed to - control the amount of carnage that takes place. They were never meant to eliminate the problem, they were just meant to reduce the size and numbers, and that they do well.
The fact that bombings and terrorist acts take place does not mean that we should not keep rapid-fire weapons out of the hands of lunatics. To argue the contrary is at best absurd.
No amount of thoughtless fealty to the second amendment surpasses the rights we all have under the preamble.
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...and yet, the statistics correlating the number and access to guns with gun deaths is beyond repute. Instead of focusing on what you think does not work, try proposing something you think WILL work. More difficult for sure but that is what is necessary.
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Mark, all valid points. However the real solutions must start somewhere and that could be the elimination/sales of killing machines namely assault rifles.Yes far more people die from hand guns every day and we know the prevalence of guns in the home or quick availability contribute to the rate of killings with hand guns. I don't know any Canadians that own a firearm for the purpose of security. Most of the people I know have indicated they don't want a gun in the house at all. Even the policemen that I know leave their guns at work. I think many of the people who insist on their right to own and do possess firearms have succumbed to the illusion that they are safer with a gun which has been proven time and again to be false.
3
Bret has some very short-sighted points here.
The deficit will balloon after the tax cut which will pressure interest rates up and limit growth of the economy.
The large companies will not invest in jobs, but in stock buybacks. Can't we just give the tax break to medium and small businesses along with a one time repatriation of foreign-held profits?
Since when is getting rid of the inheritance tax ever fair?
And all the AMT needed was indexing which it never got but can get now.
Finally, the pass through allows some to evade income taxes and pay only capital gains which is unfair.
The above would not be so bad but it borrows heavily from our grandkids.
And we need the revenue desperately so we can repair infrastructure without charging usurious tolls for use of roads bridges and everything public. Plus we need the revenue to help the elderly since we made the horrible mistake of investing their social security savings at 2% interest in treasury bonds.
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You are mistaken. Forcing states to sell the rights to infrastructure so corporations can charge usurious tolls is the goal. It is a feature, not a bug.
We are being returned to the Middle Ages economically. The tragedy is that comparatively few of us are capable of taking our eyes off the road directly in front of us to see where the path is leading us. To do so requires education so we understand history, education so we can think critically, and experience so we can identify patterns.
1
The US went off of the gold standard in 1971 so your first point is invalid as well as your last point. The interest rates will be whatever the Fed decides they will be and taxes do NOT fund spending for the US government. Word.
And was he really calling Social Security and Medicare "entitlements"??
trump unwittingly told the truth - it's a mental health issue "at the highest level".
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Republicans keep 'praying' for dead people, as if pretending to care about the latest victims of the latest gun massacre, adding direct 'religious' insult to their deaths.
If they cared about the victims, they might instead try to create a safe society where innocents are not easily slaughtered so that the National Terrorist Association and a small number of gun factory owners could wallow around in pools of blood-soaked cash....but no, instead they screw the living as they futilely try to dodge bullets in America's nationwide shooting gallery.....but oh, here's an empty, useless prayer for your cold dead body....thanks for the perverted 'religious' insult.
A prayer for the dead -- instead of taking real action to prevent these very preventable manmade gun tragedies -- is the equivalent of religious spit on the grave.
And that's what the Republican Party, the National Terrorist Association and all the proponents of 2nd Amendment Derangement Syndrome offer the latest 26 murdered Americans -- empty, religious spit on their graves.
"A well regulated dementia, being necessary to the paranoid security of a murderous, religious state, the right of the people to be randomly slaughtered by a male mental defect with no coping skill and a huge gun fetish, shall not be infringed."
America has gone insane.
America deserves an international economic boycott until it stops the senseless butchering of its citizens in its nationwide guns-and-bullets meat grinder.
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Right on. I usually feel sick to my stomach when a politician piously says, "Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims." Thoughts and prayers are sweet, but I am sure the victims and their families would have preferred concrete action.
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@socrates
Spot on.
Thoughts and prayers, crocodile tears are an insult to the dead.
The dead don't care because they are dead. Those living who were directly impacted care. That's where it ends. Nobody else really seems to give a damn. I hate to use cliches, but actions speak louder than words. We are not going to take any action whatsoever. In a few weeks America will get distracted by the next outrage. Texas, like every other massacre in the recent past will be forgotten.
So I guess Americans are OK with allowing gun fetishists, or literally anyone, to own mass killing machines.
2
"A prayer for the dead -- instead of taking real action to prevent these very preventable manmade gun tragedies -- is the equivalent of religious spit on the grave."
Amen.
3
It feels like we are living in a war zone. And terrorists can be anywhere, disguised as anybody. All of these mass shootings are done by terrorists: foreign or domestic. It makes no difference. Your neighbor, your co-worker, a kid down the street. They are angry and have access to weapons that can mow down many people in a matter of seconds. They are every race, every religion, every political party. The only thing they have in common is the thirst to kill. Whether it stems from mental health issues or Isis inspired terrorism, it matters not. They are just angry, hateful people. What Congress needs to do is limit their ability to harm so many. Why do they need a Rambo-style gun in the suburbs? Why do they need bump stocks? What is the fascination with describing this as an act of freedom? Good grief, I cannot even buy Sudafed in multiple doses without setting off alarms, but I can buy essentially a machine gun and multiple rounds of ammunition at Wal-Mart.
This is just so puzzling. And then we have this dysfunctional Congress parted by an imaginary party line, pointing fingers at each other. This even predates Trump. For goodness' sake start working together for the American people you profess to care about. People you swore to protect.
We are open targets every single day. This is not freedom. This is hell.
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Everyday I get emails phone calls from family friends overseas who are checking on us to see if we are still alive in the USA! They are also checking on family visiting the US for the first time. We have to keep reassuring them we are ok and MA is a safe place, so far, yes there are incidents but on the whole people are not gun crazy, we do live close to a gun club so we hear shots all the time. One elderly relative who lives in a poor third world country, said people are poor here, desperate, starving, living in hot humid tropics, but they don’t kill each other or take their anger out on others. She was wondering what was in the “air or water or soil” in the USA that makes people so violent. George W Bush demonstrated to the whole world how America likes to attack invade countries far away who did us no harm. They are all scared trump will do something foolish in Asia where the world’s 3 billion live and scrape through their lives.
2
Well said, Janice.
Where is the Sudafed lobby when we need them. ;-)
1
Well said! We need more outrage to penetrate the bromide assurances of 2nd Amendment zealots that guns are the solution not the problem.
1
"But it’s the mark of the narcissist that he won’t, or can’t, perform the role, because ultimately the only person whose needs and feelings concern him are his own."
When I thought about the possibility of a Trump presidency during the 2016 campaign, this is what I couldn't imagine: President Donald Trump offering solace to a grieving nation. Bret Stephens is right. Presidents of both parties have risen to the occasion during times of national tragedy, and the words they uttered seemed deeply felt. After Las Vegas and New York and now Texas, Trump could only spout the usual tripe about thoughts and prayers (when he wasn't criticizing someone or patting himself on the back). But each time it was as if he was reading from a discount Hallmark card.
What moves this man? What, in the end, does he care about that doesn't affect him directly? The answer is simple. Nothing.
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Just wanted to say how much I like having Bret Stephens on board. Although I disagree with him on many issues--here the "good things" about the tax bill--I understand his reasoning and I always think about the points he raises. And I think he and Gail interact well in these "conversations".
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HAha wanna bet one of the reasons readers like you welcome Bret (after reading this column) is because he voted for a Democratic Party candidate Hillary who owns the party, she successfully bought the officials’ loyalties.
My thoughts and prayers are with the inevitable next group of people mowed down by the next idiot with his guns.
Too bad that will have to happen.
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In the wake of a mass shooting it is definitely the time to talk about firearm control. That would honour the dead because it would say that their deaths were so meaningful, that something had to change.
A public health approach works to reduce suicide rates and to reduce homicide rates. This is a repeated finding from any research.
After Martin Bryant stood up to shoot dead people visiting Port Arthur, the Australian government took a stand (in the face of opposition by some) to control forearms, in particular banning automatic weapons. The results were swift and enduring.
Please America, change the second amendment of your Constitution, stand up to the NRA and its irrational advocacy and institute compulsory voting.
44
If the Republicans ever come to their senses and recognize the obvious, that fewer guns equal fewer gun deaths, then progress can be made. But by their upside-down logic, more guns = fewer gun deaths. So the more shootings there are, the MORE guns they want available, which obviously leads to more shootings, and another call for MORE guns. Just today, I heard the governor of Texas on NPR advocating that people carry concealed weapons into church, as a solution to this problem. That's actually true. Think about that. Imagine in your mind an entire congregation walking to church carrying concealed weapons, entering the building, sitting down quietly in the pews, for the purpose of worshiping the man -- their Lord -- who said "blessed are the peacemakers." This is the state of the world we are living in.
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I heard the Texas governor advocate that "solution," too. If there ever was a good grief moment, that was one.
2
Correction, David: This is the state of the country you are living in. Most other countries in the world do not share the American gun insanity.
2
The GOP does not actually believe what they say about guns or the environment, either. They are just repeating what is expected of them by their paymasters. Have federally funded elections so the members of Congress no longer spend half of every day dialing for dollars and watch things change.
2
Same old Republican battle: the extreme right-wing vs. the completely insane extreme right-wing.
Isn't it time to drop the term "conservative" in favor of the more honest "right-wing"?
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Of course. Besides, real conservatives are people like Sanders and Warren who help us conserve our rights, safety, and economy.
1
Radical right wing reactionary.
There is nothing conservative about today's Republican party.
3
"A good guy with a gun" does not work.
We need a national registry of gun owners, just so whey they find themselves on the wrong end of the barrel -- and they will for playing with fire -- we can turn up at their grave to say "We told you so."
3
In this situation you must allow that the actions of Stephen Willeford, a "good guy with a gun", effectively ended the carnage. He shot Devin Kelley in the leg and torso, causing him to drop his weapon and flee. However, there's much more to this: Willeford is a shooting instructor, likely the most qualified person possible to find himself in that situation. Still, he had to deal with all the stress of a panic shooting situation, a very complex field of fire and the natural concerns for his own safety. His shooting technique, stance, breath control, trigger control, etc., were no doubt all done from muscle memory, something all serious shooters strive for, doing it automatically. He was shooting at center mass, but hit once in the perp's leg and once in the torso, and at fairly close range. Keep in mind Kelley was shooting back at him.
Why don't you look him up and tell him "I told you so".
16
Better to register those who abdicate their responsibility for their own safety and security, and then let's register golfers as well, as they are a glaring icon of everything that's wrong with the country.
Eric, bear in mind that Willeford came onto the scene AFTER Kelley left the church, when the mass shooting was already over, and 46 were left inside the church shot.
Was there possibly more carnage to come? One can not know that.
Also bear in mind that the NYPD, acknowledged to be one of the best police forces in the world, has an aggregate shooting accuracy in an active shooter scenario of 30%. And they are trained professionals. You expect better from Joe Sixpack?
The other counter argument is that with a bad guy with a gun and one or more good guys with a gun, when police arrive in the crossfire, how do they decide who the bad guy is and who the good guys are?
11
(correction)
"A good guy with a gun" does not work.
We need a national registry of gun owners, just so when they find themselves on the wrong end of the barrel -- and they will, for playing with fire -- we can turn up at their graves to say "We told you so."
6
We should by all means pause and reflect on those who tragically lost their lives in TX, and the shattered lives of those who were left behind.
If the Times is going to provide a forum for counterpoint, then there should be a counterpoint. With Gail and Bret, there really is no counterpoint on Trump, is there? Not even an attempt at balance. That's unfortunate, because it leaves out half the conversation, and neither can deny that their contempt of the man and the president isn't the whole story or the universal view.
If Corker votes against tax reform merely because of the “politics of insult”, then he’s more unworthy than he accuses Trump of being. And he may as well forget about ever having an influential voice in the Republican Party again. But you never know. McCain will vote for it, as will the other usual suspects when it’s close. That still means 51-49 for, and we go to reconciliation with the House. Trump will sign any tax simplification put before him.
The concern about VA is curious. Whoever wins on Tuesday, it’ll be a squeaker – that doesn’t say anything about the ideological future of anyone, or about what it portends for direction in a Republican Congress. Where Bret found that thought is beyond me. I suspect we’ll see VA go to Republicans and NJ to Democrats – reinforcing what must be a very depressing reality to Dems that Republicans will continue to hold 34 governorships.
Oh, and Bret, New Jerseans all thank God that they’re not Bret Stephens. So there.
6
"If the Times is going to provide a forum for counterpoint, then there should be a counterpoint."
So what do you do when the two sides of the counterpoint can't avoid agreeing? Provide false balance by having one of them pretend or flat out lie?
Come to think of it, I can understand that as a trump apologist, you would think that, wouldn't you.
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mancuroc:
You remain perverse in missing the point. If there was only one view on Trump, 80% of Republicans wouldn't be supporting him. And, in case you forgot to scrub the sleep out of your eyes this morning, Republicans overwhelmingly own government across the nation.
There are obviously two views on this subject in America, and one has no voice here in the Times except in comments, and there largely by only about ten of us (out of thousands). Talk about an echo-chamber!
2
If "The Conversation" included a defense of Trump that mirrored the quality of defense presented in the comments section, the feature would be shut down for journalistic malfeasance. It's not a sensible argument to prop up this president by saying that Republicans have been more successful than Democrats at the polls recently. It doesn't wash to cite opinion surveys showing support for Trump while waving away any poll that reflects negative support. (The standard method for discrediting anti-Trump polls: what about the polls indicating that Hillary had an 80% chance of winning? Huh, huh?!).
The Times describes this feature as follows: "Columnists discuss the pressing — and the not-so-pressing — issues of the day." Apparently, no one at the paper has the stomach for defending the indefensible. For that, you'll always have the Wall Street Journal.
22
Amazing that Trump doesn't understand that if you insult someone that person is unlikely to back you on any thing let alone like you. The Politics Of Insult. Thanks for that very understandable definition of Trumpism in addition to The Politics Of Hate, Racism, Untruths.
22
He has insulted Paul Ryan, Marco Rubio, John McCain, Mitch Mcconnell, and many others in his party, and with the exception of Mr.McCain, they have voted with the president.
1
If Sandy Hook did not change the conversation concerning guns and gun control in this country, nothing will.
288
With a heart still broken from that massacre, I completely concur with you simple, single sentence. I really thought and hoped Sandy Hook was what it would take to make permanent and effective changes in attitudes and legislation. Since nothing has happened since that day, I have no faith, respect, hope or trust in any of our political leaders. Leaders - what am I saying? They are cowards, not leaders. Sorry for the rant.
3
No hunter, no sportsman needs a weapon that can unload 50 rounds of high velocity ammunition as fast as the trigger can be pulled. There is absolutely no justification for civilians owning these weapons. How many shots did the good guy with the gun get off? I think it was two. Point being that a weapon that only held a few rounds in its magazine would have been sufficient to repel the shooter. Civilians don't get into rolling gun battles like in the movies.
What our society has done is to flood itself with these military style weapons. Then the gun industry and NRA say that good people need to have access to these weapons because the bad guys have them. But if we didn't flood society with them, then the bad guys would not have them in the first place.
Their mass killing power is caused by the high capacity magazines and the lethality of the high velocity ammunition. So I ask the sport shooters. When you are at the target range, how much of a sacrifice would it be to have to reload more often? What loss to your sport of shooting would occur if your long gun only had a five shot, non detachable magazine? (Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy in a moving car with a 50's vintage bolt action rifle from hundreds of yards away). Would you be willing to make that sacrifice if you knew that innocent children would be alive today? Wouldn't the inconvenience of reloading more often be worth saving lives?
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Come on, you never know when an entire herd of deer might attack the innocent hunter. Don't you watch "When Animals Attack!"? Hunters need access to thousands of rounds of ammo in order to put meat on the table to feed their younguns.
2
Twenty-six people are killed in a Texas church by one guy with a gun--and the pages of the NY Times explode with emotion, recriminations, and disgust. Same with Las Vegas.
But thousands are killed, one, two, three at a time in Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, St. Louis, and so on.
But these stories are rarely told in the Liberal media. The question is, "why"? Why does the NY Times focus on 26 deaths in Texas, 56 in Las Vegas--and mostly ignore thousands of others? Clearly the answer is, America's cities are liberal places, where the failure of liberalism is displayed on a daily basis--and no self-respecting liberal media outlet wants to bring attention to it. After all, it might embarrass liberal leaders like Rahm Emanuel--and demonstrate how completely ineffectual they are in running anything.
These cities have some of the strictest gun control laws on earth--and criminals have no problem obtaining and using guns. It's high time Liberals stood up and admitted that many of the most violent places on earth are liberal enclaves--where they have controlled the population for generations. They just can't control the violence--but shhhh...don't tell anyone. Let them engage in misdirection--by pointing out sporadic violence happening elsewhere.
10
Here is a listing, by state, with the highest rates( per 100,000) gun deaths:
20. Utah(tie)
19. Georgia
18. Indiana
17. Kentucky
16. nevada
15. Idaho
14. Arizona
13. West Virginia
12. Missouri
11. South Carolina
10. Tennessee
9. New Mexico
8. Oklahoma
7. Wyoming(tie)
6. Montana(tie)
5. Arkansas
4. Alabama
3. Mississippi
2. Louisiana
1. Alaska
These are all red states or maybe slightly blue states with lax gun laws. if lax gun laws help good guys get guns, shouldn't there be fewer gun deaths per 100,000 Americans ?
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest...
96
It is also a list of states to which I will not travel. I refuse to go to places that have open carry and other types of lax gun laws that encourage mass murders. It isn't worth it.
8
So local gun control equals violence? Take a look at the rest of the modern world: strict gun control equals negligible violence and death. The uniquely American factor at play here is our gun obsession. The 2nd amendment is our Achilles heel - and proof that our founding fathers were fallible.
9
What's missing from so many post-mortems on all the carnage is an expression of sympathy for the many victims who had 'non-life-threatening' injuries. One woman in the Las Vegas shooting had both legs amputated. All the survivors deserve more thought as do the families of those who died. I often wonder how the gigantic medical, therapeutic & needed on-going assistance bills are paid by people who have been maimed in these brutal events.
199
Is it coincidental that the US is not only the lone place in the developed world with these consistent mass shootings, but also the lone place where the survivors will be bankrupted by medical bills following the attack? I don’t think so.
We may have the “freedom” to shoot and the hopes of “access” to health care. We don’t have a social contract that includes caring for our neighbors.
4
and for the survivors is what an insurance fund should be available. Federally mandated and administered.
You buy a gun? you MUST buy insurance. You own a gun? You MUST start paying a yearly premium. Hefty too.
Survivors face incredible expenses, sometimes for the rest of their lives.
We have a national flood insurance program (broke) which still covers those living in flood-prone communities. We must have insurance if we register a motor vehicle.
Guns are lethal all the time. Floods? not so much. Vehicles? not all the time. A gun? most of the time.
4
And the proposed Republican tax bill will make these extraordinary expenses non-deductible.
3
you can rifd luggage to know where it is at any time- can't we do the same to guns at the manufacturing level? then track and trace, follow until legally purchased, if an illegal purchases occurs, track back and follow it's movement etc- we are supposed to be a data driven society, time to see how and where these guns move through society and get to hands that use them illegally/ with violent intent. You still have a second amendment legal right to be armed, but there is a protection measure in place in case of your weapon being stolen/used without your knowledge. Insurance to care for all these people injured should also be a requirement for gun ownership, and similar to a driving test, a how to use a gun responsibly test??? European countries with gun ownership also tend to have a mandatory military service - which teaches gun responsiblity.
45
"If there was ever a time we needed a leader who could help us make sense of things …" I couldn't agree more. But not to just 'make sense' of things, but to offer a way forward. We need direction and resolve on mass killings, whether 'terrorist' or some other form of murder; at least enforcement of gun laws already on the books; meeting the challenges of climate chaos; clean drinking water; sustainable agriculture; alternative energy; racial justice and inequality; a real state department; and, finally, a solution for perpetual toxic nuclear waste storage, monitoring, upkeep, and security.
Unfortunately, we have nothing but peril in our current 'leadership'.
63
Writing from the suburban Milwaukee area, we are also familiar with these tragedies. A suggestion.
With someone dying from gun violence in our country every fifteen minutes, perhaps The New York Times could initiate a daily, standing column on the names and the lives of the lost. Anything to bring the real and individual costs of the now eroding gun regulations and governmental indifference to the now critical issue of gun safety.
It might even to make a difference.
208
Excellent idea!
Much like the PBS Newshour, which would put photos and IDs of all the military deaths reported killed during that week. They did it each Friday with the comment "Here in silence are XX more."
It was chilling. And meaningful. We noted it each week.
3
Yeah, no. A Times columnist did that for a year. After Sandy Hook there will be nothing but the election of three or four cycles of solid Democrats that will turn this around. We have to have enough Dems that the gun sympathizers among them are few in number. Good luck with that as the Dems are focused on culture wars, not the jobs and economy that would get them elected.
You may recall that the NYT did have such a column: Joe Nocera's gun report. It was an excellent column, but at some point Nocera and his assistant gave up. Listing all of the senseless killings--of spouses, children, innocent bystanders, young people, old people, etc. etc.--was just too depressing.
1
So Mr. President 26 deaths are caused because of mental problems? And what are you going to do about it? I'm expecting an executive order to be forthcoming, sometime soon, as you usually say that will explain the actions you are demanding the congress should make to prevent further massacres. Of course enhanced vetting and immigration limitations may not afford Americans as much protection from these happenings as it does against selected foreigners but we know how strongly you want to protect our citizens from homicide.
We should expect some call for action from you perhaps to execute the killer, no it's too late for that, maybe Gitmo for native born and raised Americans who commit similar dastardly acts might work as prevention. But something, anything to show you care!
If a mentally diseased person had a weapon other than an automatic rifle could he have exacted on worshipers such a horrendous toll? But if the reason is mental defect then what will you do the prevent such people from committing mass murder using any form of weapon.
Please let America know so we can feel safe in our houses of worship, movie theaters, schools, entertainment events, in fact any place in our country.
Please.
30
Donald Trump is just not a President, a Leader or worthy of any further discussion in these columns. He will always disappoint and will always betray.
As far as the latest homegrown massacre after Las Vegas and New York, is concerned, the NRA is the enabler of perpetual civic insanity in the service of the munitions industry;s bottom line. No killer ever shot and killed someone without having a gun to do so. Finally, this not about the 2nd amendment but about whether the owners of the 300 million or so guns in the United States will step up to the plate to make sure that a start is made by making sure that the ownership and use of a gun has at the very least the same mandates of owning and driving a car.
99
From a White House in Washington little Trump tweets,
From his pillow, his pillow, his pillow;
Without feeling or mercy his tiny mind bleats;
With the wit of a dim armadillo.
Is it weakness of intellect Trumpie? I cried
Or has someone’s sharp words pierced your gossamer hide?
With a taunt and a sneer that his snide grin belied,
He said “That’s why I’m King of the Hill-o.”
103
if only ALL republicans were as civilized and rational as Bret Stephens ...
I don't agree with many of his opinions, but I do give him credit for honesty and compassion to 'other' human beings.
Thank You for a thoroughly enjoyable conversation.
132
The NRA took a radical, extremist turn in the late 1970s and has never looked back. The fascinating history of this organization and the perverse turn it took a few decades ago is recounted here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-...
Other civilized nations look at this now "normal" aspect of American life with shock and disbelief. The response from the right wing will always be that we need more guns, not less. Or that there are now so many guns in society, whoops, "whutcha gonna do?", no turning back now, better get out there and buy some guns for protection. For this, I will forever hold the Republican party in contempt. They could have closed this Pandora's Box in the 1980s, but they kicked it open wider, eventually kicking the lid off entirely.
Combine this extreme, cynical perversion of the 2nd Amendment with the Republicans' outrageous anti-science and anti-environment legislation, then add a heavy dose of contempt for the poor combined with a lot of fake Christian posturing (seriously, where is the Jesus in all of this?), and I increasingly end up with this conclusion:
Republican policies create human misery.
254
If you want to see how radical, how hateful and violent a turn your NRA has taken, try this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/nra-ad-the-violence-of-lie...
Just a hint of where the people of Trump draw their preternatural political strength, their psychiatric symptomology from.
We think we're having a political debate. They think they're fighting for their sad and pointless lives, and they had better keep us in their sights.
1
There is no valid excuse for our politicians to ignore the carnage that widespread ownership of military assault style weapons is doing to our citizens. At a minimum they should be talking to each other about solutions. They do nothing. No one needs an assault rifle or a magazine that holds more than three rounds unless they are in the military. Outlaw ownership of twenty and thirty round magazines. That’s a start. The status quo doesn’t seem to be working. Our so-called leaders are doing nothing. They are certainly not leading.
156
I agree with you, and 10 round clips also should be outlawed.
Outlaw all ammunition and clips for all assault rifles. Then the NRA and gun makers can keep their precious second amendment with its well regulated militia.
They're cowering from the estimated 5 to 8 million of these things already out here. They don't even know how many.
Here's my contribution to THE conversation: I am begging ALL Women and decent, like minded males to just say NO. Become a ONE issue voter, for Gun Control. Any candidate " endorsed " ( PAID !!!) by the NRA is not worth your vote, period. The sacred Second Amendment is absolutely not worth the life of your child or grandchild. It's that simple. We can stop this scourge, this abomination, this slaughter in less than a decade. I don't want thoughts and prayers from politicians. I DEMAND Action.
Guns are made for killing, nothing else. Enough blood, enough Death.
462
@Phyliss: The way you started your comment was really shocking to me. I am, as you are, passionate about this issue and have commented often about it in NYT. But why not appeal to ALL men as well? What you write implies an assumption that all women are decent but that many men are not. Perhaps you didn't mean it this way, but, can you see how that would be received by us males? I will bet you anything that most of us, in our heart of hearts, are as upset about all of this horrific violence as are women. I would go one step further and say that any man who is not moved by this violence to do something to end violence is not really a man, not in the true sense of what it means to be a man.
Why do we let candidates get "PAID" by lobbyists?. They don't in europe.
1
Yes. Unlike an automobile, which, as we saw demonstrated in NYC last week, can kill, or a knife, which can kill, guns, like the ones used to massacre more and more innocent people, are made for one purpose only: to kill lots of people fast. Now, we all know hunters who cull the deer population and then cook venison for dinner. And we all know people use a certain kind of gun for sport shooting and win Olympic gold medals. But the kinds of guns we see proliferating in the country now are not for those purposes. No hunter buys a gun to try to kill 26 deer at once. And no target shooter buys the guns, the accoutrements and the ammunition to kill 58 people at once. Nor is one likely to have one's house set upon by 26 or 58 people all at once, so that one needs to defend one's family and property with such weapons. I just don't get it: Congress and the courts have no problem with telling people they don't have "the right to bear" bazookas, flame throwers, and attaché-case sized nuclear weapons, all very nice devices if you want to kill and destroy. It is time to push back at the one-issue NRA in the manner you suggest, politically, so that their monetary investment in certain candidates becomes a waste of money and they stop doing it.
2