I have to laugh when Trump says the Dems are against progress and are obstructionists. You have bills created behind closed doors, they contain all kinds of things that Liberals and most American's are against, or you tuck in a clause that erases hard earned accomplishments. Then it is expected to be voted on with no time to study it, or debate it, or even opportunity for bipartisan amendments, and Trump says a no vote is obstruction? This is not democracy, it is authoritarian rule or to keep it simple, Mafia style decision making.
2
For most people, the state takes its cut out of the paycheck before you ever cash it. Why should we be taxed for income we never received?
2
It is ludicrous to suggest that the federal government should tax the taxes we pay to our state and local governments. Evidently the GOP sees these as simple deductions, and they're not considering the substance of their proposal.
It is irresponsible, in the extreme.
On the other hand, changing the marginal corporate tax rate from 35% to 20 or even 15% makes sense. We have the highest corporate rate among OECD nations in the world. Only Chad and the UAE are higher, at 50%, and they don't make anything. And the OECD average rate has steadily gone down over the last 15 years, while we remained highest. The result is over $4T being warehoused in foreign banks, rather than being repatriated and invested in plant, equipment, and jobs. (The OECD treaty results in repatriated funds being taxed again, at the difference between the rate paid overseas, and the marginal rate at home.)
Corporations paid an average of 12.5% on earnings in 2015. If we eliminated industry specific loophole deductions, and set the rate to 15%, it would be an increase, not a reduction. Then, initiate a repatriation program on those funds in foreign banks, providing incentives if they're invested in jobs at home.
Recognize this: companies are the engine of job creation, not government. If more of us were working, more would be paying taxes. Nudging up the average corporate tax paid, eliminating loophole deductions and setting a low marginal rate would result in growth, not deficits.
Another solution for creating American jobs would be to give more tax breaks to the middle and lower class. If people have more money, they will spend more and businesses would have to hire more people to keep up with the demand. Past history of lowering taxes for corporations (Bush 1 and Bush 2) to create jobs only led to corporations keeping more for themselves and reducing the middle class.
2
To Mr. Giannotti who is okay paying higher taxes for the good of the country. I am all for the good of the country, but this tax plan isn't for the good of the country. It's for the good of large corporations, who for the most part have never paid the full 35% corporate tax (more likely, less than half of the 35%) and the very wealthy, who are simply greedy and don't need a tax cut at all. My guess is that Mr. Giannotti is not generous, he's selfish, and figures that as a small business owner, he'll get some kind of tax break, but it does nothing for small businesses, either. NJ has always been a state that pays more in federal tax dollars than it receives from the federal government. What the Republicans are doing is punishing blue state America but like it or not, blue states will punish them right back. Starting tomorrow.
3
It's not exaggerating to say the only interest Republicans have in tax issues is to enact monstrous tax cuts for their wealthy donors. Why do we still dance around this one central truth? Also, given that Republicans feel ANY tax bill they pass is evidence of effective leadership where thus far there's been none, we see them scrambling to pass tax cuts dressed up as "reform." But the possible bills they've floated would only become yo-yo law; a democratic majority would pass one that swings sharply in the other direction. The public is not served by such partisanship. We are, after all, the ones who pay the taxes.
5
All good Republicans should tow their party line. End state and local tax deductions for yourself. Keep right wing ideologues happy.
1
Blue state voters don't seem to understand that they have been paying for the corn in Iowa, the coal in West Virginia, the Medicare in Fl for decades. Follow the money - no red state since Ronnie has paid anywhere near its fair share of taxes. A state like NY gets maybe $.80 cents for every $1.00 while Texas gets $1.20. My numbers may be off but the con I speak of is real and getting worse. Who believes that these red states can stand on their own and pay their way???
13
Why are the GOP targeting Blue States- they did it in their (attempted) healthcare reform and now their supposed big beautiful tax reform. Did it ever occur to any of those Red States that living in a blue state means that you have more affluence and the taxes that go along with good schools/roads and general benefits? Why should successful states be made to pay for states that are seriously in the red (forgive the analogy) because they also cut taxes but didn't try to find a way to keep their budgets balanced- are we going to let these people run our country into the same financial negatives these red states are in? Stand up and call these losers and let them know "NO"!!
7
If I remember right Warren Buffett has said in the past that a flat tax rate of 10% on all income for everyone would be the fairest way and it would give the government plenty of money to run the country. However then the government would be treating everybody the same way and we know this will never happen as the rich will always want more.
3
BTO: Sounds real simple, doesn't it? Too simple. There are millions of people, especially where there is no minimum wage law, for whom 10% would be draconian - they might as well not work and get welfare. So, SOME people have to pay more than 10% to compensate. We would also have to trim the fat, remove corruption, and become more efficient at all levels of government, given that there is so much that doesn't get done (e.g. infrastructure) with everyone who pays taxes paying more than 10% (except the businesses that manage to zero things out with loopholes).
2
Well we wouldn't want billionaires' children and grandchildren and great grandchildren to ever have to work a day in their lives would we? That might happen if we don't repeal these estate taxes.
7
As with their brutalizing plans for health care, this tax plan reveals a complete inability to write rational legislation. The GOP is wedded to illogic and unfairness except when it comes to the wealthiest Americans. Their nonsense knows no bounds: They won't close the carried interest loophole, but they can make sure teachers, who spend on average close to a thousand dollars a year on school supplies for their classrooms, can no longer deduct up to $250 to ease the pain of those expenditures. Wow. Could their bias be any more plain?
8
I don't really understand why the tax code is so complicated. I mean, I do, because it was created over decades, with hundreds of special-interest groups lobbying for their pet projects, but... it doesn't HAVE to be.
First, everyone over 18 must file a return individually. No "married filing jointly" or "married filing separately"--those categories were created to (1) encourage marriage and (2) give people more tax breaks under certain circumstances. It's not the government's job to encourage marriage, right? Right, all your Republicans who want to keep the government out of people's private lives?
OK. No individual pays taxes on the first $50,000 per year. After that, each person pays an additional 5% in taxes on every additional $10,000 earned, up to $100,000, at which point one is at a 25% tax rate for the entire additional $50,000. A person making $60,000 will pay $500 in federal taxes. A person making $100,000 will pay $12,500 in federal taxes. Then, each additional $10,000 in earnings is taxed at an additional 2%, up to $200,000. So, a person making $110,000 will pay $12,700. A person making $200,000 will pay $32,500. After $200,000, the rate goes up 1% for every additional $10,000 earned, to a maximum of 70%. So... if you make $250,000 you're paying the $32,500 plus another $2500. But if you make $1,000,000, you're paying the $32,500, plus another $200,000.
No deductions for ANYTHING. Capital gains-same rate as income. Fair, simple, easy.
Why are you complaining here?
Have you written to your Congressman, especially if he is a Republican? Well, have you?
I've written to my Republican Congressman Lee Zeldin, for whom I voted in 2016 and who won with only a very narrow margin, that if the Federal tax deductions for SALT or mortgage interest are impaired in any way, or if my federal tax bill goes up at all, I shall vote Dem in 2018 and forever after.
Have you done this? Why not?
9
"The 11th District, a Republican-leaning hodgepodge of quaintly verdant residential streets, snarling highways and big-box shopping centers, groans under an extraordinary tax burden."
With no evidence provided to support this statement, I can assume it was written by the New Jersey Republican Party.
3
Of course "you're talking about restructuring a large part of the economy of the Northeast". We didn't vote for Trump and because of his childish, vindictive ways we will have to pay.
I don't think it could be more obvious that this new tax plan will only benefit the rich. The middle class and people with low incomes will be the ones to pay for their greediness. I just don't understand why there are still people supporting Trump, the Republicans and all their evil ways.
12
Why is the Northeast taxing low income families?
1
They will be seeing 1trillion in revenue while giving 2 trillion in tax cuts. You know where the trillion in revenue is coming from and we all know who will benefit the most in 2trillion cuts. Certainly not the middle class who mostly support this nation while the wealthiest hide their cash in foreign islands.
10
I spent the weekend reading the bill (up to the corporate tax part) and calculated my taxes. I will owe an additional $500. I own a modest 3 bedroom home, and am desperately saving for my high school daughter's college tuition (at a state school like Rutgers). Besides behind unfair to NJ citizens, this bill worsens our national debt. I hope everyone complaining in this comments section is calling their representative to act in the best interest of NJ and the country.
9
I, as a retired CPA, compared my 2017 tax based on estimated income and expenses to the proposed GOP plan and would pay an additional $2,500. I also estimated our 2018 income, which is much less than 2017 and will still pay an additional $2,000. Why would most of us in NJ and NY want to do that especially since we are a donor state. The original plan why we have SALT deductions is to promote people buying houses. This concept dates back almost all the way back to 1913, the original Income Tax law. Not only that giving away Estate tax give away and the 20% corporate tax deduction plays into the hands of the likes of the Koch Brothers and the Waltons giving them billions of tax rebates. Someone mentioned the Hedge Fund managers who get taxed on capital gains, a lobbied loophole, again why. Certainly Buffet sees this as ludicrous and should be taxed at higher rates. Certainly Rodney Frelinghuysen will pay the price if he votes for this bill. As a former Republican the current GOP gang in DC have gone crazy just to get this bill in place just to say they could do something. OK well it will cost the country dearly in the form of lower housing prices, fewer new homes and fewer mortgages.
Being retired part of our income is Social Security which is taxed. They give no thought to us retired folks who are on smaller incomes.
If it passes I have to choose to either stay in NJ and pay more or move to a low taxed state.
10
Good to have choices. Most of us retirees were fine with high state taxes during our earning years. Once retired it was time to re-access. There are many better weather and tax treatment states.
1
This tax plan is an attack on the blue way of life. They wants us to kill our local institutions by not funding them. They want us to become like Red-Gun-Bible-Totting state and kill our science-futuristic generations.
It's a civil war in disguise.
9
Don't be fooled. Democrats won't fight to preserve the SALT deduction, because they sincerely believe those higher-income folks who most benefit from the SALT deduction SHOULD pay higher taxes. If the Republican proposal passes, and then the Democrats regain control of Congress, don't hold your breath waiting for the SALT deduction to be restored.
1
I live in California. I am registered as a voter with no party affiliation and have voted for a lot of Democrats. From that perspective, I comment on the possible elimination of the state income tax deduction. California has one of the highest income tax burdens in the country. The legislature has a super majority of democratic members. Republicans have no power whatsoever and might as well be non existent. This enables Democrats to pretty much enact anything and everything they want to. That is unfettered power at its worst with no checks and balances. For those who might delight in this, note that countries such as China have one party systems too.
I support limiting deductions for state taxes, even though I pay them. Hi tax states like California desperately need some check on their otherwise limitless power to tax and spend. The elimination of the state income tax deduction might provide at least some inhibition to those states from just continuing their uncontrolled practices.
2
1) China by laws has one party, CA has one party in control by choice, the voters' choice. Quite different. 2) CA does not have "unfettered power at its worst with no checks and balances." There is always the next election. They just happen to choose people whom you dislike which is their right. Rather than viewing your false example China, why not Utah which constantly votes GOP? High taxes are what? Some like what high taxes give them and don't think taxes are that high. Try comparing the numbers of CA public schools vs the numbers of Mississippi schools as to graduation and going on to college. Nothing is "uncontrolled practices" when there is another election down the road to remove anybody the voters wish just the reverse of one party control as practiced in China.
6
Americans should pay the same federal taxers regardless of which state they live in. If people think their state taxes are to high, they can vote to lower their state taxes. In theory, states could keep all tax money "at home" by raising their taxes to exempt all residents from paying federal taxes.
1
The red states would never do that, it's easier to get federal welfare.
9
When New Jersey Republicans sleep with a dog,
they need to stop whining about the fleas.
9
Why can't these states cut/restructure taxes to offset the problems? State tax deductions are mostly enjoyed by the wealthier population and I don't see any reason to continue this.
States, unlike the federal government, cannot run deficits. They have to balance their budgets. The states with lower/no income tax are the ones that require great amounts of assistance from the federal government. States with higher state income taxes tend to net the government revenue. There is no reason why New Yorkers should be penalized and give up local services for which they pay taxes so that people in Tennessee (a state without income tax) can make up the shortfall for their poor budgeting.
6
You answered only one part of the question. This tax is mostly paid by the rich - that's still true.
I don't see much correlation between state income tax and reliance on federal budget.
https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/
https://taxfoundation.org/state-individual-income-tax-rates-and-brackets...
We have Alaska, Washington those don't have state taxes yet not much reliance on federal money. On the other hand, Oregon still relies on federal budget despite having a high income tax rate.
As resident of Manhattan I would be hit by this plan, no longer being able to get deductions from state and local taxes. However I think this will be positive in the long run. We may no longer so easily accept tax increases and put focus on wasteful spending.
2
Remember that when teachers are laid off, along with cops and firemen.
5
Don't believe any GOP rep in NJ. If he does vote against Trump it will only be that the GOP doesn't need his vote to pass this odious bill.
The GOP rep will the have it both ways: the illusion of being against and still getting what he really wants.
Don't vote GOP.
12
So nearly every Republican in Congress has been putting party over country for years but now that they want to pass some lousy legislation, we are all supposed to do what's good for the country (which this legislation is NOT)? I really truly loathe these loathesome people.
4
So long as being president is a money maker for himself and his heirs, President Trump doesn't care about the effects of his policies on the rest of America.
14
Another Blue State beat down. Republicans primarily represent those who donate to their coffers - Citizens United.. Period. Poverty and other problems are generally higher in Red States. Seems like Republicans are trying to move the entire country to the lowest common denominators.
10
The press needs to get a wider focus if it wants to create controversy and sell papers. What people do not realize is that they are penalizing education, when they take away these tax deductions, but since education is not a priority with them, they simply do not care. If you look at the red states, their high school graduation rates are abysmal. They have all cut their ed budgets so significantly since the onset of the Great Recession, there is really no going back for them. A whole generation or more will be marred by the lowered standards, if there were in fact any standards at all. It is all the better in the minds of the Republicans. So much easier to control. These people are like puppy dogs that will eat their own sh"t. This is the 37% of the American people, who support Trump, who will saddle them and their offspring with a $1.5 Trillion dollar debt because they want a tax cut that they don't need. They are pigs, greedy pigs, who will rip off America because they can do it. We don't need a tax cut. If you get $2, the wealthy will get $200,000. Hmmm! Wi dat?
9
Who voted for Republicans in NY, NJ and CA ? Are you happy now ? It is time for us to wipe them out from the House in 2018 and sent those who truly represent us like Maryland, Massachusetts and Connecticut.
9
Probably none :)
Why do you call them 'blue-state republicans' instead of 'republicans from states with functioning economies'?
18
Don’t act so surprised, blue state Trump voters. If you had looked at Trump for more than ten minutes (and because he was running for president, you should have done so), you would have seen that Trump makes big promises and never keeps them. He has betrayed nearly everyone who has ever trusted or supported him, with the possible exception of a few family members. There’s already a growing list of people in the administration who have been used and then ditched (starting with poor Spicer). Why should you, the blue state voters, be any different? What kind of clout do you have that gives you immunity?
So enjoy your tax increase, Trump voters. You earned it.
12
Trump supporters didn't understand they would get a tax increase they voted for in the election. They were just too deluded to understand they were misled.
10
Deductions of mortgage interest and state and local taxes are counter progressive. The rich you are, the more tax benefit you can get from these deductions. Removing these deductions will make tax system more progressive. Isn’t this one of our goals?
3
Wrong when these deductions make it possible for many middle class people to own homes and have money to send their kids to college. The wealthy always will own homes and have the cash to send kids to college. Real estate brokers are worried about home buying of the wealthy but of those way below them and hence are against this cut. Those tax savings mean so much more to the middle class than the wealthy. Trump paying higher fed taxes doesn't change his life style at all but a middle class person it can mean the difference between their own home and paying for Jr.'s college.
1
Paint a big bull's eye on freshman Republican Rep. John Faso of N.Y.'s 19th Congressional District. The District demography is about as middle class as it gets:
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/50000US3619-new-york-congressional-d...
74% of homes are single family, 72% of which are owner occupied. Without state and local tax deductions and mortgage interest deduction the overall tax rate goes through the roof. Median income about $59K; median housing price about $202K. Paul Ryan's plan would supposedly rain $90 dollars a month on these families. School taxes? college savings? retirement? How can any Republican imagine this corporate-wealth give away benefits the broad middle of the population? Why are our state and local Democrats not screaming till hoarse over this? Should be low hanging fruit.
4
Boo hoo for NY/NJ/MA Republicans. They were willing to vote for a lying, cheating, thieving, groping, corrupt, ignorant con man so that they could conspire with him to get tax cuts, and NOW they're going to complain? Boo hoo.
By the way, Trump and his henchmen probably think it is especially pleasurable that tax hikes go to the most responsible (and Blue) states. To them, these complaints are just gravy.
11
How preposterous for the GOP tax plan promoters to suggest that CA, NY & NJ get an unfair tax deduction on their larger property/state tax costs than GA & other impoverished failed states !
A sound tax base assures infrastructure, school, college and quality of life investments that are the hallmark of economic growth. Oklahoma's radical 'tax cuts' created a financial disaster, not growth.
If the GOP is honest & courageous, they must not start with a fantasy of cuts=growth, but with reining in spending first--very tricky when that involves the militaryMedicare & Social Security !
Why not do truly rational reform- eliminate the scam of carried interest (lower income tax rates for billionaire hedge fund managers), raise a federal minimum wage (guaranteed to increase demand that drives growth vs adding to bloated corporate coffers in the name of 'job creation'), leave estate taxes at holdings above $11M (pay it forward in the name of patriotism!) and try to negotiate a a gradual expansion (more efficient) Medicare4All, liberating workers & employers of the burden of health benefits which surely could increase wages & profits!
11
I've read a little bit about Mikie Sherrill over the past few months. I don't know much about her. But I do know that she wasn't just a "helicopter pilot." She was in the Navy for 10 years and she was a Naval helicopter pilot. It seems neglectful to leave that out. She was in the military. Give her her due.
8
Let's say you do get an extra $1,100 in your tax refund. How far do you think it will go? Will it make you rich or take you out of debt? Maybe it will pay for your kids hockey equipment, or a short vacation, but if you consider what you will lose in return, I hardly think this tax giveaway is a Christmas gift. Think carefully before you praise Trump for being generous cause he is paying you to look the other way when he takes away your benefits.
8
This bill will increase federal deficit by 1.5 trillion dollars. What it means is that a family of four will be in 20K dollars in debt over next decade.
A middle class tax increase in NY/NJ/California of 2000$ per year is another 20K over a decade.
So a middle class family in blue state is going to lose $40K (pre-tax) over next decade. All for giving tax cuts to the rich and corporations. Corporations are swimming in cash right now. Giving them more money to swim in is not going to cause economic growth.
For most people, $40K is a lot. It is worth taking a month off work and going to the congressman's house, pitch a tent and protest non-stop.
There are smartphone apps that locates your congressman by you GPS location and lets you call by a click. (I used capitol call). Please install, call and tell him/her to vote no. It will take only five minutes.
They are literally stealing your money. Act like it!
A five minute call can save you 40,000$ or more!
14
I have to laugh when Trump says the Dems are against progress and are obstructionists. You have bills created behind closed doors, they contain all kinds of things that Liberals are against, or erase what accomplishments have been made, it is expected to be voted on with no debate or opportunity for bipartisan amendments, and Trump says a no vote is obstruction? This is not democracy, it is authoritarian rule or to keep it local, Mafia family tactics.
15
And his supporters are still behind him one hundred percent! This is beyond any reason or common sense to me. You can't fix stupid. If everyone had the intelligence of a Trump supporter, he'd already be a dictator.
2
Nobody talks about the carried interest loophole for the hedge fund managers and investors. Why do they get to keep theirs?
24
Look at this from the eyes of Trump, the wheeler dealer president. You give the middle class a tax break that equals $1k or so, but you cut SALT and mortgage deductions. Then you find that there are services that you enjoy that are being subsidized by the Federal Government that will have to be cut to pay for your cuts. If you want to keep those services the state will have to pick up the tab, thus state and local taxes rise, but you can no longer deduct those taxes. Who do you think the losers will be? Only those that have enough money that they do not need such services will not be hurt, but you can be sure that those that do might as spend their refund on alcohol and get drunk cause that's about all it is good for.
6
As a psychologist, I never understand why Republicans can’t figure out the basics of governing — to represent every person {We the People), and pass laws that make people’s lives better. Why is it so hard, for example, to see that if a minimum wage approached what people actually need, they could just work one job and spend the time with their families that nourishes all aspects of life? Should it be only the well off who get to do this?
Why should Republicans be touting tax reform as a bill to create jobs, when all they need to do is pass an infrastructure bill that would provide the economy with all the needed demand it could handle, given how close we already are to full employment!
But instead they have to resort to all kinds of blandishments and machinations so that they can get a ‘win,’ while their wealthy donors get another big break on taxes, to add to bank balances that never seem big enough to satisfy them.
In the end they wind up being losers, as do we all, because we all wind up living in a country that is struggling instead of thriving. It doesn’t do much good to have a lot of money in your wallet, if half the people you rely on to make things work are so unnecessarily burdened that nothing functions the way it so easily could. It becomes a kind of pervasive, self inflicted wound that never goes away.
If Republicans could ever figure that out, they would have the win they so desperately seek.
11
If Republicans ever figured that out....they would be Democrats!
8
Maybe its time for the blue states to secede from the union since they pay more than what they get from federal dollars. This, I think, will alter the conversation on taxes.
31
Its interesting that Representatives from states that actually have a surplus of federal tax money flowing their way should talk about Donor States cutting taxes and gutting their strong progressive social agenda. The Republicans basically want to ram a giant unnecessary tax cut down the throats of the public. Trotting out all the old supply side tax myths about how every one benefits by cutting taxes to the wealthy. The Republicans are playing political games trying to get rid of deductions that effect blue states. The unpopular 401k plan fell by wayside because it was obviously intended to free up money to pay for a ridiculous tax give away which the Republicans are determined to keep the Democrats from having any influence over.
16
The hideous GOP need someone to make up for the huge deficit they are creating with their obscene tax cuts to their overlords, the 1%, including rich evangelicals like DeVos, corporations who are screwing employees out of benefits every year, the super-ultra rich who will pay no inheritance tax on their super-ultra wealth;if no one pays taxes, there is no federal govt.; if there is no federal govt., there is no democracy AND THIS IS EXACTLY THE GOP PLAN BROUGHT TO ZOMBIE LIFE BY 45;the GOP plan? stick it to the BLUE states who are democratic and remove their tax deductions that they eke out from static wages since the disastrous days of reagan, poster boy for big tobacco, big oil;and fear of universal health coverage;another double talking plot by the GOP
7
The mystery of the Trump agenda continues. The easiest, bipartisan relief measure in January of this year would have been to promote infrastructure construction and restoration. Months later, not only is there no funding legislation offered, but the largest current program, which grants tax-free interest on private activity bonds (PABs) is under attack in the proposed tax law. To curb that tax-free interest may be good tax policy, but to do so without any substantial financing substitute is an abdication of a national vision for connecting our states and communities and another purse-string war by Washington against those states and counties, red and blue alike.
2
Maybe people who live in high tax states and pay huge amounts of taxes to live there will start a revolt? The mortgage deduction needs to be eliminated completely IMHO. People who want to own a home will own one with or without that deduction. The Realtors and Builders will lobby this one hard but it has no merit IMHO. I think most of us pay far too much in local and state taxes when you add it all up - car tax, environmental tax, cell phone tax, hotel tax, school tax, etc. Pay a flat tax, a percentage of your income. That is the only fair way to tax people.
2
In 2016, I voted for Lee Zeldin (Republican, Suffolk County) for Congress, and Zeldin won, but only very narrowly.
I have now written him twice that if the Federal tax deductions for SALT or mortgage interest are limited in any way, or if my Federal income taxes go up at all, I shall vote Democratic in 2018 and forever after.
Wherever you are, if you agree with me and have a GOP Congressman, you might want to drop him a line.
23
"Joe Giannotti, a contractor, estimated that he would pay several thousand dollars more in taxes if he lost the deductions that are currently under the knife.
But Mr. Giannotti, who said he usually votes Republican and supports President Trump, said it would be worth it."
Clearly critical thinking is not Mr. Giannotti's strong suit. Does he realize that the proposed changes will drastically negatively impact NJ real estate values and the construction industry accordingly? I suppose it would still be "worth it" if you lose your job, eh? Having no income is certainly one way to lower your tax burden!
45
Hey! Get with the program, Ed! All that matters is lower taxes. Who cares if it comes via unemployment - the luscious fact is that Joe's taxes would PLUMMET!
2
Worth is for what? These nincompoops must pay!
He's probably just greedy, believing wrongly, that as a small business owner, he'll get a tax break. He would, if he were General Electric.
The tax plan in its present form is a cynical attack on blue states. The blue states already subsidize red states and this is not just adding more to the subsidies but now end up paying for tax cuts for the wealthiest citizens. I personally would not be against see my taxes raised if it went for more money spent on education, research, infrastructure and mitigating the effects of climate change but certainly not to see multi-millionaires get even wealthier at my expense. This tax plan is an obscenity and if it passes it will basically guarantee that the West Coast and Northeast will not elect any Republicans to Congress in the foreseeable future regardless of whether their Congressmen vote against it. The divisions between blue and red states will become starker.
20
The Trump tax plan just stinks but so do the high taxes we pay in NY. The plan is for lower taxes on the super rich and that this will trickle down but there is no proof of that. However, I will guaranty that if NYS lowered their taxes that the state would definitely become more business friendly. Instead we have high taxes because our government is beholden to the Unions and likes to give too many freebies to too many people.
3
Once again the GOP seeks to redistribute the wealth from the Democratic states to their welfare blue states.
How can they ask for tax breaks when they're not even paying their way now?
6
Most Blue States already send far more to the Federal Government thane they receive back. Under the Trump Republicans and Democrats in Blue States will be paying even more of the federal budget.
13
This is further proof of the theory I have had since Trump took office that we are rapidly moving towards splitting into two countries. This is yet another case of those in the Trump-voting, low tax states going after the coastal liberals in high tax states. There is a rapidly decreasing amount of common ground between these two groups, whether it is on taxes, immigration, health care, guns, or anything else.
This policy was an easy way for Trump to reinvigorate his base and continue his "us against them" way of trying to run this country. Which is particularly ironic given that he has lived his whole life in a state full of people who he is harming.
All that being said, I am happier arguing about monetary policy issues like taxes, on which I strongly disagree with Republicans but could live with the outcome, than on issues of human rights and treating others with dignity, such as health care, guns, etc.
4
Maybe the "blue" states need to rethink their tax and spend liberal policies and catch up with the rest of the developed world.
2
Taxes in the U.S. are lower than much of the "developed world" you reference.
Some choose to pay more for schools, police and other services while others prefer to pay less to their states and districts to pursue safety and education through other means.
We are all free to choose our preferences and live in a community that reflects those preferences but people shouldn't be punished from making one choice or the other.
The proposal to punish residents of coastal towns by reducing or eliminating the SALT deduction and the mortgage interest deduction is a vicious attack on hard-working people whose only error was to buy a home in a part of the country with higher costs of living.
8
This plan is purposely designed to screw blue states and will burden people like me, who are loyal GOP voters. Very dumb!
12
It is fundamentally unfair to tax people twice.
It is fundamentally unfair to change the rules of taxation suddenly in a way that hurts hard-working middle class Americans who relied on the mortgage interest deduction and the SALT deduction when making their decision to buy a home, their most important lifetime investment.
It is fundamentally unfair to put undue financial pressure on local school districts in high-cost areas. Local taxes mostly go to teachers and other town services. Ultimately, teachers and students would suffer if the proposed changes come to pass.
It is fundamentally unfair to reduce the value of a homeowners' lifetime of work and savings to give tax breaks to the very wealthy. The proposed tax changes will reduce the value of property and diminish what little wealth many Americans have managed to save by paying down their mortgage.
23
The removal of these state and local tax deductions will just make more severe the transfer of federal tax money from the blue states to the red states. Recall that most blue states pay more in federal taxes than they receive in federal spending in their states while the opposite is true in the red states. So "big government" will be supporting those who are supposed to be opposed to big government at yet an even higher proportion than today.
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And blue state voters get disproportionately low representation in government too, under our current rules. No taxation without representation!
2
The 2010 redistricting of the 11th District (giving Frelinghuysen many more solid red constituents) may be the only thing saving Frelinghuysen this election if he adds a vote to end the SALT deduction to his vote for ACA repeal. He is the type of Congressman who should lose in a Democratic wave election, so a victory would only further show the perniciousness of redistricting and how many of the Democrats’ problems still stem from the 2010 election.
6
New Jersey is an aromatic bouillabaisse of astronomic property taxes and stratospheric debt. To mitigate this completely untenable situation, we have the bold leadership of politicians like Chris Christie, traffic enforcement. If New Jersey were a business, it would close tomorrow.
7
Isn't it socialism when federal taxes levied on Blue states are used to prop up the federal subsidies of Red states? Why is this OK but universal health care, Medicare and social security are not because ... well, socialism?
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I find it "rich" that Republicans claim that being able to deduct the higher state and local taxes that are prevalent in blues states (but also other red states like Ga. as well) is not fair to folks who live in Alabama who don't pay high state and local taxes and therefore can't deduct them from their taxes.
Blue states pay higher Federal taxes that go to pay for services in red states, this has been established time and time again. So if you want to talk about what's fair then red states should give back although those blue Federal dollars and those blue dollars can go back to blue states and maybe state and local taxes could be reduced.
22
This is just ONE of their goals. To try to punish those who do not agree with them. Entirely political and vengeful; not good for the country, OR the economy. This is how they crashed the economy 10 years ago.
23
Maybe so. They are also punishing those that do agree them. But they are only punishing the poor.
1
Raise taxes on the middle class to cut taxes on business and the 1%. What could be wrong with that?
25
Everything! Previous such tax cuts were not spent on wages, salaries or educational investment, but in increases of already out-sized top executive salaries, and stock buybacks and dividends for shareholders, for which most of the stocks are owned by hedge funds, banks and the super rich! Already, with the middle class being increasingly squeezed, business such as cable companies, restaurants (other than low cost fast food joints, payday lenders, etc.), movie theaters, orchestras, clothing, magazine and newspaper subscriptions, travel and leisure establishment. Rather than gifts to the super rich, President Trump, by not undoing the badly needed updates of the overtime pay rules, can do far more for the middle class than the, like Cinderalla's glass slippers, gradually disappearing so-called middle class added tax benefits, while the super rich and large corporations tax benefits remain permanent.
1
If the GOP tax plan had left the deductions in place, the tax brackets unchanged, and simply cut taxes by lowering the rates, I wonder what those rates would be. Instead of 10%, 15%, and 25%, would we have 9.9%, 14.9%, and 25.2%.
And, yes, I do have the feeling that all this nonsense with eliminating deductions, changing rates, and changing deductions is to avoid making it too obvious that the whole thing is a fake tax cut.
30
Yet to being discussed is how Trump will impact the so-called Republican tax "reform" and it's legislative process. As New Jersey 3rd district Congressman Tom MacArthur found out with his steerage of the failed TrumpCare - wherein Trump enthusiastically embraced the Congressman's proposed draconian cuts to ObamaCare, only to leave him left out to dry by calling such changes "mean" in response to public backlash - one can only expect the politically naive and purposely uniformed President to throw his confounding ego/ignorance into the tax legislation mix. I hope Mr. MacArthur has learned his lesson, but I won't hold my breath.
4
This divisive tax bill only serves to divide an already polarized country, pitting red state versus blue state, and threatens to balloon a 20 trillion dollar national debt. The modern Republican Party doesn’t care about patriotism or fiscal restraint, they only care about what their donors want. Instead of splitting the country in half and threatening to set us down a path of civil war, the Republican Party should do what is right for the country and work to narrow the gap between the richest and the poorest by giving the middle class a tax break. Instead we have this mess.
36
The proposed tax plan threatens to significantly affect real estate prices throughout coastal cities and suburbs. This could very well bring about another 2008-style crisis in which many homeowners find themselves owing more than the market value of their home. This is no way to stimulate the economy. The current proposal is likely to send us into another recession.
27
Rodney Frelinghuysen, Leonard Lance, Tom MacArthur, Peter King, Lee Zeldin, Dan Donovan: Every one of those Republicans went to Washington and voted to organize the House of Representatives to empower the people who've created this tax bill that will profoundly hurt their constituents.
Those New York and New Jersey Republican congressmen helped set the forest fire. Now that it's raging out of control, they show up with their thimblefuls of water, and they want credit. Don't give it to them. They don't deserve it. Vote them out.
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Allowing state and local taxes to be a federal deduction is a subsidy in the form of lower tax liability to those states citizens from the Federal government. It takes some of the bite out of having to pay those high state taxes. Eliminating that deductibility simply puts the burden where the burden belongs.
I am at a loss at how the argument can be made that removing their deductibility is a subsidy to others.
Perhaps the people in those "blue" states would be less willing to pay those high state and local taxes if they didn't get relief from their federal tax burden - relief from the citizens of low local tax locals.
I guess the value of the added services received in those states with high local taxes may not be worth their full cost when no longer subsidized.
7
Yours is a spurious argument. Blue states such as NJ, NY, MD and Cal subsidize red states by receiving much less in federal assistance than they pay in federal taxes. Nevertheless, I will give your argument some credence in that I feel the same way about being required to pay for other peoples' superstition through federal tax subsidies to religious organizations. You can believe any nonsense you wish, but don't shove it down my throat by expecting me to pay for it.
30
Personally, I'm tired of subsidies to red states. We pay a lot of Federal taxes but get very little back and under the current proposal we will do a lot more of that.
If you really want to be fair let states get back in Federal dollars the same percentage they pay in.
4
Red states can keep their state/local taxes lower, as they receive a more in federal aid than what they pay in federal taxes. As someone from NJ you must realize that even with our "reduced" federal tax burden, we still only receive $.70 for every $1 sent to DC, to send $$ to the low tax Red States. Let them stop being subsidized, and then see what happens to their local taxes.
6
Not only is your story true for blue state republicans, red state Trump voters are getting shafted too in many ways.
The Trump tax cuts are almost exclusively for the rich. The poor get handed a break in one way like the increase in standard deduction but lose it by eliminating the exemption.
In addition to that, trying to kill ACA really hurts poor republicans in these red states.
41
No one is talking about it, but here in NY, part of the local tax (property) bill includes police. It'snot just schools or garbage pickup. And, we have no control over the police contracts. So if we cut, we'll have to cut highway funds, education, and garbage pickup before we cut police in order to keep our taxes down.
14
Using tax code changes to get back at your political opponents isn't going to end well. Without CA, NY, and other other high state tax states that drive the US economy, the remainder of the US would be Spain but with terrible food and more guns. Cutting the income of individuals in those states could shave a measurable percentage of growth off the annual rate. When we end up with $20,000 less income, that's going to have an impact. When Bill Gates ends up with $20,000 more, it's not going to have an impact.
71
I'm a blue state (California) voter who has benefitted from the mortgage interest deduction. But it's bad policy that should be repealed or reduced. Canada and most European nations have no deduction, or in those that do it's limited to a percentage of the interest paid. The reasons it's bad policy include (a) it encourages people to bet their future on rising prices which, when prices fail, leaves homeowners financially ruined and homeless; (b) it's a sop to big banks and real estate developers; and (c) it fuels rampant over-development of rural land.
The proposed limit of $500K is a good step in the right direction and it will not apply to existing homeowners. And so what if a few zillionaires from Wall Street, Hollywood or Silicon Valley -- who live in New Jersey, New York or California -- will be unable to "move up" in the world. This tax subsidy for the rich drives home prices up and further excludes those at the bottom. It's said to encourage the thrift of home ownership but instead, feeds the greed of speculation. Prices will drop slightly to benefit everybody at the bottom.
This policy is one example of how Democratic Party elites feed from the same trough as their GOP rivals. If developers hate the proposed reform then it must be a good thing.
9
I'm a middle class New Jersey resident who works in Manhattan and thus pays both NJ and NY taxes. I'm several zeros and commas removed from being a zillionaire. The repeal of the state and local deduction is going to be a big hit to me financially. And regarding the deduction, given the housing prices here, there are millions of people in the New York and New Jersey areas who are nowhere close to being zillionaires, or millionaires, who have mortgages over $500,000. I'm very lucky not to be one of them, but my 2 bedroom condo is not far off. This if the cost of living in this area. I'm getting really tired of subsidizing zillionaires myself, but this tax proposal helps them a lot more than it helps me. And I feel fortunate not to be the working poor because they are screwed.
8
Hoist by their own petard. And none are so blind as those who will not see.
What did they THINK was going to happen?
13
I wonder if the people of New Jersey who will not vote Republican because of their national tax plan will vote for Democratic candidate Phil Murphy for governor since he has promised to raise their taxes.
Why the surprise? Have these people just awakened from a coma?
They've been scammed, and Trumped. Enjoy.
64
Interesting that the places who will be hurting the most are the cities in the north and west, non-Trump supporters. Am I crazy to think that Trump is crazy clever in finding a way to get even?
3
NJ has heard this before from gov. whitman. Her state tax "breaks" were dumped on locals where taxes were increased.
Debt will not pay for schools, roads, security, etc. forever. But by then as with Whitman, all those smiling GOP'ers will be long gone.
13
GOP Tax Plan Giveaway
...
1. CUT corporate and 1%'er tax rates drastically
2. Cut middle-class SALT and Mortgage credits to "take up slack"
3. Create HUGE deficit
4. Then...demand CUTS to SS, Medicare and Medicaid to EASE DEFICIT
...
Questions?...really, questions still?
91
Right on Edward, and nicely put.
1
It's not enough that the blue states already contribute far more to the US Treasury than they receive back in the form of federal spending. Now they need to be punished for funding the vast "income redistribution" plan and pay even more!
61