Assuming the shooter wasn't a radical Muslim, we can expect more talk about how we shouldn't make this about politics and it's too soon to discuss anything as the families are grieving and not all the facts are known. But if he's Muslim or an immigrant, then obviously all bets are off and we need stricter laws ASAP.
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Right, if he is not-white and/or Muslim, he will be a terrorist. If he is a white guy, he is deranged.
To the gun lobby, more guns would solve the issue. If only more people in the church had been armed and could have engaged the shooter.
Nonetheless, this is terrible. Terrible. Children were injured and killed, a community is wrecked.
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AG: In all seriousness, does Devin P. Kelley, 26, sound like either? Some people believe anything that drops from trump's lips. That's a very American name.
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The laws would never be about firearm limits, though.
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I am so tired of the media and paid government officials invoking their invisible sky daddy when things like this happen. Apparently that fool in Texas, Greg Abbott, was flailing around at the scene telling people to maintain their "faith in God Almightly."
A) It's offensive for a public official, on the clock, to be invoking supernatural creatures instead of tending to business down here on Planet Earth.
B) If there is a Gawd, and I doubt it, he/she/it is one supremely malignant, malicious creature. Or was he/she/it on a coffee break when this latest shooting, among others, took place? In any event, not something I'd pray to.
Media, stop wasting our time with people who who just want to blather on about their invisible friends and stick to reporting the fact. Public servants, do your praying on your own dime, not mine.
1
Until we know what kind of weapon was used to commit this murder, we can't cast aspersions on the Second Amendment.
If AR-15s and weapons like them are banned, fine. I won't support it or be against it.
But the right to own guns is part of the Constitution and these much publicized but statistically rare shootings ought to be tolerated as the price of freedom.
Sounds strange, maybe callous, but in a free society we can't control everyone's actions. Shootings, drunk driving, texting and driving, etc.
For as many good things there are about freedom, there's certainly a downside. But we mustn't ever change the basic dynamic of our free society.
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Yes indeedy, the right to kill is more important than the right to live.
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Yes, the freedom to kill is more important than life itself. Time to wake up.
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"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." What I'm not seeing with mass shooting after mass shooting is the shooter being a member of a well regulated militia. This one is no different.
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This is the price of our present model of Second Amendment freedom, and it seems to be going up. We need to downgrade to a less expensive model.
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How can we stop this kind of killings? People are using everyday items to kill people. Who would have imagined that somebody will use a automatic weapon in this way? He seems to be a nice American boy who was patriotic enough to spend his hard earned money to defend the constitution so please don't judge him. Most likely he was target practicing and those people just walked into the line of fire. I hope NYT will not use this incident as another call for gun control.
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Yep, you nailed it.
What OTHER reason is there for an automatic or semi-automatic weapon? Either you are killing lots of people, or lots of animals, or taking out your destructive impulses on property. Give me a reason to allow them AT ALL!!
Most countries do not allow such weapons to be owned by private parties. Compare homicide rates. It's ridiculous. We are ridiculous.
Irony. I love it! Do you have British heritage by any chance? Quite right by the way.
1
These cases are random. They are not concentrated in any particular place and the shooters are as different as night and day. They are virtually impossible to stop because they are so unpredictable. They always grab our attention because of the number of killings and our unhealthy fascination with the" phenomenon." The number of victims falls far shy of those who are murdered in conventional crimes. Conventional crimes are a product of deep-rooted social problems, but they're no vry interesting. Mass shootings are relatively rare and reveal nothing more than the fact that there are a few among us who feel compelled to commit deranged acts. Mass killinbs focus on the mindset of a single person which, unfortunately, grabs more attention than murders that occur day in and day out.
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A mass shooting averaging almost daily is not “rare”. The stats are that gun violence has increased for the last 2 years. Other countries have found ways to curb it but we have a lobby selling product on people’s graves if need be.
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Yes they are random and unpredictable, but they are becoming more frequent, and years ago they almost never happened. What has changed?
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They are impossible to stop because we will not pass reasonable gun laws. How does a guy who is discharged for domestic violence buy a gun legally? Congress failure to keep the assault weapon ban means there is blood on their hands.
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I'm truly at a loss for words. When I hear stories like this, my heart immediately breaks and my eyes are full of tears. I don't know how much more our country, let alone our world can take, but #enoughisenough. My prayers and thoughts to the victims and their families and the community affected by this unspeakable tragedy.
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Wow - the careful avoidance of describing the shooter in this instance is noticeable.... and not just here. Where's the description of him as a white, christian, male.... where's the dissection of his religious life and the fact that he was even taught a bible study class? Where are the questions about how he became radicalized...
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These false equivalencies are getting so tiresome. There is no dissection of his religion because he didn't announce that he considered the killing to be a religions act (unlike the Islamic terrorists).
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The guy in NY was identified described nationally detailed immigrant status disclosed immediately every hour continuously His picture displayed this one no
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Sorry, but MY thoughts are with the lazy, money-grubbing GOP-controlled Congress who would rather line their pockets with NRA money than to attempt to do the right thing by instituting common-sense gun laws.
My prayers? Well, these people were IN A CHURCH when murdered. If that doesn't help them, my "prayers" to a non-existent god aren't going to do a bit of good.
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David, read District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)...Supreme Court 2008. Your blame is misdirected; neither GOP or Democrats can pass unconstitutional laws. Pretty much end of story. As far as your comment on God and the killings in a church. If this isn't proof there is no god I don't know what would be.
" 'I just started praying for everybody who was there' when she learned of the shooting, she said."
Is this an example of prayers working? Resulting in a mass killing spree?
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There's no issue of prayers working or not working, God has given us free will. Some use their free will to bless people, others use their free will to turn automatic weapons against people.
Should I be sarcastic at the expense of those who don't really care about mass murders? The "thinkers and prayers" who determinedly do nothing but spread fear and propose looser gun laws? The Grosser-in-Chief who threatens violence against people and countries he dislikes?
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What are you taking tonight?
The tyrant of North Korea's prison state threatens the free world, and, like EVERY other President, Trump responds with tough talk. But you are so - upset? - that you see nothing he does as exactly the same as his predecessors' reactions?
Why are other venues reporting the alleged shooter's Antifa membership? Is the times fearful of reporting the goods on certain groups? Guns are not the problem...hate is. And so far, the charged environment is not helping anyone. Let's be real--restricting guns will not stop the hate. And besides...the genie is already way out of the bottle. Under stringent gun control, he law-abiding citizens will turn in their guns, the others (the dangerous ones) will not. The power of law is at most times sorely lacking. Like when, in our area, a felon is found with a gun during the commission of a crime. It looks like he forgot to obey that law as well! My best advice for everyone: Befriend someone different than yourself, race religion and creed. And love on them. After a while the gun control will be a moot point.
What other outlets are reporting the shooter's ANTIFA affiliation?
this shooter was dishonorably discharged from the military he should not have been able to obtain a gun
Because no one is "reporting" this-- you are visiting web sites that are literally making this nonsense ( a link to Antifa) up. According to FOX NEWS: "A possible motive was unclear. Kelly lived in a suburb of San Antonio and didn't appear to be linked to organized terrorist groups, a U.S. official told The Associated Press. "
People in the USA have had guns for over 200 years. For most of those years under much less regulation and control that we have now. Even under such more stringent regulation shootings have increased. It is obvious to me that more regulation is not the answer. An honest dialogue is needed, one without the old canned ideas from either side. Get real, the guns are already out there, and collecting them all is as impractical as ejecting all illegal aliens is.
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I think priests should be required to carry at service. That would solve it
what more stringent regulations? - being mentally ill is not a disqualification.
# of people and # of guns have both grown exponentially. Gun manufacturers are advancing the killing power of their products daily. Silly to compare now to then.
1
"Thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers."
If thoughts and prayers accomplished anything, these 26 people - and the victims in Las Vegas, Orlando, Charleston, Colorado, everywhere in this country a mass murderer/terrorist lets loose a barrage of bullets - would be alive today.
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I literally came here to write the same as you..,, thoughts and prayers indeed!
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I understand that you're trying to effect a call to action other than to pray. However, as a believer in Christ, I testify to the impact of prayer. Yes, people are killed in an unrighteous world, but that is not evidence that prayers are of no effect.
Yep. Keep thinkin’ an’ prayin’, thinkin’ an’ prayin’, thinkin’ an’ prayin’ but, by god, leave the 2nd amendment alone. At least keep military equipment out of the hands of civilians.
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"Radical Christian terrorism". Say the words, Mr. President. Better yet - propose Congress does something so they don't do it again.
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No no no. It's radical CORPORATE terrorism. The arms and ammo makers' profits are at stake.
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Why would Trump call the shooter a "radical Christian terrorist"? Is there any evidence that the shooter was killing in the name of his God?
If a Christian or a Muslim or a Buddhist commits an act of terrorism, it is NOT an act of "radical [fill in the name of his religion] terrorism" unless the terrorist is acting with the purpose of advancing a perceived religious objective. For example, when a Muslim Palestinian blows up a bus in Israel, he may or may not be committing an act of terrorism in the name of his faith; it would depend on his motivations.
But you may have noticed that when a Muslim commits an act of terrorism these days, he is often proclaiming aloud before, during, or after the terrorist act that it was done for a religious purpose. That is why it is called "radical Islamic terrorism" when he does it.
This concept is very simple, but it continues to escape the grasp of a lot of people.
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@Lonely Centrist: "when a Muslim commits an act of terrorism these days, he is often proclaiming aloud ..."
I think you have it backwards. The killing is classified as an act of terrorism because the killer proclaimed his "religious" motivation.
When the shooter is white, we hear no calls from Trump for "execution." He just rolls over and says "Tut, tut, we'll pray for y'all." Worst president ever. His sword-rattling on the Asia trip is an added embarrassment, but nothing can distract thinking Americans from understanding who he is and what he's doing to our country.
Is NOW the time to talk about guns?
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Why would he call for execution when the shooter is already dead? Not everything is about race.
Why isn't Trump tweeting "DEATH PENALTY" this time???
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The two major white mass shooters we’ve had on Trump’s term have both died during or immediately after the shootings.
If only those good people of the church had brought their firearms to their worship service their families and friends wouldn't need all those prayers of the good people who have sent their condolences and prayers. In other news, bump stocks still remain legal. To cite Kurt Vonnegut, "Ho hum."
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Do you really think Jesus Christ would approve of bringing guns to a place of worship, the House of the Lord?
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No, Jesus would not approve of bringing guns to a place of Christian worship, but Wayne LaPierre, the High Priest of the National Rifle Association, reminded us after one mass murder that the only person who can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Since many churchgoing folks appear to revere simultaneously the second amendment and the word of Jesus, perhaps those who worship at both altars, the one of Jesus and the other of the NRA, think the gospel of Wayne would have saved the people gunned down at the Church. Me? Not so much.
Ho, hum reminds me of how commonplace mass murders have become and how little outrage they provoke, especially among politicians who offer prayers but not solutions. After so much loss of life, the prayers of the elected strike me as a cynical ploy to create an appearance of concern and piety. Do not the followers of Jesus have an obligation to insist on actions that reflect the teachings of Jesus and demand a solution to the gun carnage seen as regular and recurring events in the land of the free and the home of the brave?
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Time to take guns away from white American men. That's what logic suggests, as they have been the perpetrators of the greatest violence against Americans in the last few months.
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Another day, another firearms massacre of innocent children and other Americans. Trump and the Republicans, carrying water for the NRA, are on side of pathological, homicidal maniacs.
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The Founding Fathers are surely rolling in their graves.
It's time for the insane interpretation of the Second Amendment by modern day courts to be overturned. How many more murdered pregnant women and five year olds shot four times do you want to hear about on the news?
No other democratic country in the free world allows its citizens to have this horrifying no holds barred gun ownership.
It's time to repeal the Second Amendment.
A pipe dream --absolutely!--but whoever thought that a man could walk on the moon?
Just like you, I have had it with worthless politicians calling for prayers. We don't need prayers--we need a citizens revolt.
Vote every NRA supporting corrupt politician out of office! We have the power.
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Amen! Which means "may it be so." A citizens' revolt--YES!--against the Second Amendment.
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Look at Switzerland. Every family required to have weapons.
Unpopular opinion alert: Another mass shootings by white male. One day white Americans need to wake up and decide when they will put an end to living this way. Elected leaders have yet to ban "bump stocks" after the mass shooting in Las Vegas. Now another mass shooting using assault weapons. When are voters going to demand legislation to ban assault weapons, high capacity clips and bump stocks? We don't have to have our elected leaders make us live in a war zone.
Elected representative get Capital Hill police. Trump gets Secret Service protection. Wayne LaPierre doesn't leave home without armed protection. What do they all have in common? They make the laws that make is hard to get military weapons off our streets. We shouldn't have to dodge bullets as we live our lives. We don't have to live this way.
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I wonder why you prefaced your comment by saying it would be unpopular. It is not. Even if it were, your perspective is correct on any ethical line of thought.
There were threats posted from the far left groups and this particular individual on Facebook.If they're domestic terrorists the internet is supposed to be monitored.and the only chance others may have in this kind of situation is too be armed.
What poor choices by the voters that voted for Trump, those that are in the NRA, and that think that our kids will ever be safe again. You better pray to your God, because you will need his help. These massacres are now happening daily.
The second amendment says guns shall only be allowed for private citizens in a well regulated militia. But the laws have been manipulated by lawyers and by congressmen getting votes and money from the gun lobby. Now, your kids are at risk whenever they go out in public. That is just a fact.
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What poor leadership from Trump.
After last week's killings in New York City, Trump calls our justice system "a joke," "a laughingstock," and rushes to skewer our immigration system.
With today's mass shooting, Trump holds back, respectfully addressing intelligence officials and expressing condolences.
A strong leader would not play politics so cheaply with lost lives.
A strong leader would also evaluate our ridiculously easy access to guns as a public safety issue, the way he treats immigration and religious profiling.
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Trump and strong, competent leadership do not belong In the same sentence.
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The president is leading. It spews hatred divisiveness every day. It's just not proper leadership for a civilized people.
Amen! (and I'm not religious)
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The world is not a safe place. Though it could be safer, as there are safer places than others. Violence here at home, can start to seem like some of the war zones around the world. While banning guns might stop some forms of violence it will not stop violence, just slow it's access a bit. No one size fits all gun ban will solve the issues.
Mass bombings happen all over the middle east and even threats of poison attacks, so whilei t might not feel safe in america today, it actually is a lot safer than it could be if we had open war going on. Like so many places we send our troops.
So we pray for all the world's conflicit zones and for our government to stop all the needless wars elsewhere as well.
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The world? No, just areas of active military conflict and pretty much anywhere in the United States.
"There are safer places than others"...yeah, like EVERY other developed country on earth. It's not like preventing gun violence is some impossible dream. The rest of the world is living it.
A one-size-fits-all gun ban will save a large proportion of the 30,000 lives that are lost every year to firearms.
That's more than justification enough.
Sorry for being a cynic, but how long before Republicans and their media surrogates start to milk this for political gain?
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There's obviously been a whole lot of incompetent praying being done. Had they been praying correctly, I'm sure that God would have calmed the mind of this tortured soul and the many others like him, or would at least have stilled his weapons.
But if God didn't want to stop him from killing the innocent, it's not the government's place to intercede. This is no time to talk about gun control (or about Puerto Rico for that matter)--people as still suffering. And the longer they keep suffering, the longer we can avoid talking about it.
Besides, we have to discuss terrorism. I mean the real terrorism--by Islamic extremists. This can't be terrorism--the shooter was white.
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This was satire, right?
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It's satire, yes. It's kind of scary that there's any doubt, but I guess there are people that really think that way. It's even scarier that we let them buy guns.
Important take away - When you shoot back at a bad guy he runs away.
More Americans need to qualify, get licensed, and carry firearms for personal protection.
1
I guess God and guns don't mix.
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Yet you can carry an gun in church in Texas
8
Disgusting! People were gunned down like animals at a place of worship and you make a sarcastic joke about it?
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There are more guns than people in the USA. Outlawing guns is not the answer. Getting more guns into the hands of the right people seems the only solution.
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It’s not just about guns. It’s about military grade assault weapons. Guns are also a problem in the wrong hands, but the free availability to all Americans of assault weapons amplifies the gun violence immensely. That’s what causes the huge number of victims in these murders. We could start by reinstating the ban on owning assault weapons.
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You raise a straw man argument. No one is talking about outlawing guns. Universal background checks regulate people, not guns. They help ensure that people like the Texas shooter not get access to guns.
I've yet to see a good guy with a gun stop a mass shooting.
You know, it doesn't have to be like this. Australia quite sensibly enacted gun control and were able to remove a sizeabke number of guns from the population. They still have hunters. They're not less free than the US.
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I read a lot of the comments. I didn't see any that picked up on this fact from the story, "He had served in the Air Force at a base in New Mexico, but was court-martialed in 2012 on charges of assaulting his wife and child."
A man with a history of family violence. Probably just as relevant to his shooting up parishioners in a church as other aspects of his history.
Had he been a Muslim, would the way this story is reported be different?
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The reporting wouldn’t be much different but the comments, response and actions from politicians would be.
The question is, If the killer had been a Muslim AND this story had been reported differently, would that difference have been justified? In my mind the answer is yes. What it seems like you're trying to say is that the ideology that people who kill in the name of Islam attach to their slayings is less important than their personal history and their mental health. Maybe -- I doubt it -- but without the ideology these people would not kill.
Salafi-jihadism seems to have an appeal to disaffected, and even seemingly contented, young Muslims around the world. That this is true is a problem. No such ideology motivated Stephen Paddock and Devin Patrick Kelley. Downplaying the distinction between Saipov and Kelley and dismissing the import of motive would be a mistake. Do Muslims ever kill for nonreligious reasons? Of course; just as Christians do. However, when Muslims kill and explicitly say that they are doing so because of Islam and the injustices faced by the umma, this is something altogether different -- and should be treated as such.
America needs less guns. Only a fool would believe otherwise. Gun carnage in America is outrageous, and it is impossible to know who's going to snap one day. But when people kill, they do so for a variety of reasons. And those reasons matter. The liberal penchant for saying what you said frightens me.
A lot of the red states passed laws to protect those convicted of domestic violence from having their gun licenses revoked. I'm sure the NRA had a lot to do with that. For them men are entitled to still have their guns even if they beat up their wives.
Sadly in incidents like this, it doesn't take long for hateful vindictive comments to come to the forefront. This is a rural community. Many have guns because law enforcement is sometimes too far away. What many will miss in the story is that someone who witnessed the event shot the shooter. Had he not done this, would this man have vanished into the population or emerged to shoot others. There's no question that such shootings are the acts of the insane or the depraved. Our mental health system allows seriously mentally ill people on a medicate and release basis where they roam until they hurt someone. Our criminal justice system allows serious offenders their freedom under a misrepresented guise of honor. It is time we stop glorifying shooters and start embracing victims. And please, this time could liberals refrain from saying that these innocents some how deserved their fate because they live in a red state? Frankly that comment is offensive and tired.
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Ellen,
I will gladly consider all that while YOU consider the possibility that Texas INVITES mass shootings with their outrageous gun laws that do NOTHING to prevent this sort of tragedy.
People are always claiming that liberals are saying that shooting victims deserve their fate because they live in a red state. I'm sure there are some, but I read a lot of comments and I've yet to come upon one. The only comments I am reading are about the need for gun safety laws. Any "hatefulness" , if you want to go that far, are towards our politicians and the NRA. Even then, I would not call it hateful, but just disgusted.
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I cannot imagine anyone saying that anyone "deserved" to die. My heart breaks for the dead and their families, but if you don't think Texas laws and lawmakers have played a significant part in raising up crazy white Christian men who shoot guns and kill people you'll just have to continue to be offended, I guess.
5
"Our prayers are with you" kills people, not guns.
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Oh for Pete's sake, get a grip. We need to focus sanely on getting these weapons off the streets and countering the macho death and bully culture that has grown up here. People praying does not stop us from that, so stop carrying on over it.
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unless I can kill you when I point my finger at you and say Bang - it's the guns that are killing people. Enough -
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"Our prayers are with you" is the only comfort we have to offer towards those who have lost their lives or their loved ones who are affected by gun violence. Can you really justify that guns are not the issue right now when one just killed over 2 dozen people, one of the victims being a five year old, and one an unborn child? If only you could see through the eyes of the family members of the dead today, you'd realize that your ignorance on the topic of gun control is what killed several innocent lives today and thousands of lives in past shootings.
God is no match for the NRA and the holy profit motive.
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Thoughts and prayers? Disgusting.
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These unarmed people never had a chance to defend themselves from this armed gunman. If one worshipper had had a legally registered gun to use against this killer and defend the congregation, this might have had a different outcome. These defenseless people were the perfect prey for this madman. They were caught off guard and many families are mourning the loss of loved ones tonight. This is terribly sad. Their lives are changed forever.
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Willing to bet several parishoners were armed. One bystander chased him and attempted to shoot him.
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How would you know they were unarmed. This just happened, all the facts aren't out yet.
1
People WITH guns are caught off-guard as well. If someone enters shooting, would your first instinct be to draw and fire? You'd probably hit the floor like everyone else.
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Where was the good guy with a gun? Phhft..
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If just one person in that church would have been carrying a concealed weapon, there may still be a couple deaths to report, but there would not have been the devastation that took place today. The laws of the land give us a right to protect ourselves via concealed weapon permits. I suggested more people take advantage of this law, and protect yourself and your family. My husband and I do not leave our house without protection. Let me give you something to thing about. And I know many of you are going to be all over this, but bear with me. Would you have unprotected sex if you knew your partner was HIV positive? Would you get in the car with a driver that you knew was drunk? Then why would you not protect yourselves against the danger of death my a maniac with a gun, when you have the power to possibly stop that person from harming you or others?
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According to police, someone fired back. Didn't stop a massacre. I would recommend looking up how fast these things happen. The response time by even trained professionals like the people who protect the leaders of the world, often fail before the killer has done what they came to do.
I hope you never need to use your gun, because chances are, in circumstances like these, you have already been shot by someone who shouldn't of had a gun in the first place.
6
Thank God I don't live near you or in your country. The thought of you and your husband heading out the door, guns loaded, makes me feel sick. Good luck.
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this MYTH is debunked everyday BY THE ACTIONS of the COPS or the military who, despite their training, seek cover, and don't run in to a gun fight with an active shooter. you watch too many movies and play way to many video games.
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We are seeing too many of these evil acts take place today and there should be more of a mental health care focus placed upon our society. These occurrences are playing havoc on our nation. Normal people do not kill. Mentally ill people do. You cannot place the blame solely on gun ownership. If people notice someone is behaving peculiarly or dangerously, they should act accordingly. If you see something, say something. You may be saving lives.
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Ok, but are we willing to say that the US has a significantly higher rate of mental illness than other countries, and that's why mass shootings are occurring? Because it seems like most first world nations have roughly equivalent rates of mental illness, yet other countries do not routinely have mass shootings. Maybe because it's harder to obtain guns in those countries. Also, if it's only mentally ill people who use guns to kill people, maybe there should be more restrictions on mentally ill people obtaining guns in the first place. A mental health screening wouldn't infringe on the rights of sane gun owners, would it?
WMK: That would make the problem worse by diverting police attention to people who are simply drunk, or simply peculiar (but not dangerous). Meanwhile, the next extremist is practicing his aim.
Are you advocating universal healthcare? Medicare for all?
After reading some of the comments here, and extreme reteric from the Left and the Right, I am very suspicious that Russian agents or other national agents are making comments in this section with the intention of dividing us. Turning Americans against each other. All of us (Americans) have much more in common than we different. Let’s not let those that want to divide us not win. We are Americans first. After that we are Liberals and Conservatives. Let’s all stick together.
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yes
Mr. Brown: the divisions are real because the issues are real and there is no compromise in sight. "Stick together" becomes a hollow call for the status quo. Sorry, I want change and if that devides me from those who do not, so be it.
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Great point, John. I question the value of even opening the comments section for this article. We have seen these sentiments before. They only serve to increase the polarization. No one is going to be swayed by what they read in these comments.
If only Trump and Republicans were as willing to restrict guns as much as they are to restrict Muslims entering the US. Gun crimes would drop astronomically.
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Thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers!
Sending thoughts and prayers!!
Totally meaningless, but is a great substitute for meaningful legislation.
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There must be statistics somewhere comparing how many Americans have been killed by Muslim terrorists vs. how many Americans have been killed by other Americans since Trump got into office. We should see tweets in portion to the number of people killed in each category right? If a deranged Muslim person kills 8 people, then the tweets go flying and we have to move heaven and earth to make sure it doesn't happen again. If an American with military weaponry kills 25 or 60 people then not a sound is heard from our President.
May the victims and families in both instances find peace.
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There are statistics, but in 1996 Congress disallowed ATF and CDC from tracking gun violence in the U.S., so those numbers are compiled by 3rd party groups. The problem with that approach is that given each group is likely to have some kind of slant based on its purpose, those statistics are easily ignored.
However, here's just a ballpark figure. Mass shootings are defined as 4 or more people being killed. Under that definition there has been about 1.05 mass shootings per day in 2017. Today is day 310 of 2017. Subtracting 19 days before his inauguration, that leaves 291 days. Multiply by 1.05 yields approximately 305.55 mass shootings since he took office, for at least 1222 people killed in mass shootings this year. I'll leave it to you to subtract the number directly attributable to terrorism and work out the ratio. Please note this is mass shootings, not all forms of killing or death.
It saddens me that this can even keep happening, and here we sit, complicit in our negligence.
1
We don't see those statistics because then we'd have to talk about black on black gun violence in the inner cities, with deaths far outnumbering these lone nut case killings.
1
It's too bad we could not interview those dead by terrorism and mass murder gun violence by the likes of Paddock in Las Vegas and Kelley in Sutherland Springs. Let's see if they would be angrier being killed by terrorism or by an American gone on a wild rampage.
There's a simple reason that "nothing will get done." No one has proposed anything that a) would stop mass shootings and b) comports with the 2nd Amendment.
1) The calls for background checks on private sales resonate after every shooting, and in every one, we learn that the shooter bought the gun from a store and PASSED the background check.
2) Calls for an Australia style ban basically amount to a ban on nearly all privately owned firearms. Even if that did comport with the 2nd Amendment, half the country opposes it, and would not be implemented without a civil war. So that's not a solution either.
3) Calls for bans on "assault weapons" are borne out of either ignorance or intellectual dishonesty. There is no such thing as an assault weapon. It's merely a semi-automatic rifle that has certain cosmetic features that make it look mean. During the Assault Weapons Ban that existed from 1994-2004 (and still exists in several states), the same exact rifles were sold without those cosmetic features. So that's not a solution either.
4) A limit on magazine size is the only proposal that could possibly have any effect, but the problem with that is, there are already hundreds of millions of 30 round magazines in circulation, and there's no easy way to remove them. In any event, it takes about 2 seconds to swap a magazine.
If there was an easy solution to this problem, it would have been done already. But there's not, and anyone who says otherwise is stupid or lying.
9
What's stopping the passage of an effective assault weapons ban that would comport with the Second Amendment is not a legal question, but rather the unwillingness of Congress to act.
The 1994 assault weapons ban applied to only 18 firearms. The complexity of its provisions led to far too many loopholes, which firearms manufacturers quickly exploited.
A law banning all semi-automatic rifles would do nicely, because most mass murders are carried out by them. The only thing standing in the way is politics and naysayers.
There are plenty of solutions including making the monthly cost of each weapon uncomfortable through federally enforced programs (license, registration, background check, fingerprinting, liability insurance) and adding annual vision, psych and safety education tests. All these fees would fund the buybacks that would see a windfall of relinquished weapons. If there’s any left over then use them for full ride college scholarships for gun violence victims.
1
Decreasing the amount of gunpowder in bullets would not violate the second amendment and would slow down bullets. A slower bullets equals less damage.
This was a terrorist act by antifa. This is what we are dealing with with these domestic terrorists. We must destroy their cells and destroy antifa.
1
Y'all want to be protected against maniacs? Fine then.
We'll suspend the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all guns. That means house-to-house searches with dogs trained to find cordite in ammo as well. No warrants, though. Government will assume everyone is armed. By the way, if you flinch during the search, you will be arrested or shot.
Then we institute psychological profiling, rounding up anyone who is deemed at all suspicious. They all get sequestered in huge stockades pending hearings which may take years to complete.
We hire millions of police officers to patrol every corner of every neighborhood. And let's bring back the military from all over the world to assist as well. Citizens are encouraged to inform on anyone they deem suspicious who will then be arrested with that report being the only probable cause.
And don't forget cameras. Yes, cameras everywhere tracking your every movement. While we're at it, lets install GPS tracking devices that everyone is required to wear at all times. Get caught without it and you get shot.
Oh and get rid of all cash. Everything is purchased by electronic means so government can determine your intentions. Get caught trading or bartering and you get hauled off to one of the detention stockades.
And what is truly frightening is that there are untold millions of liberals applauding everyone of those sentences I just wrote.
Bottom line, try and touch my guns and I'll drop you where you stand. That's the only harm I ever intend.
9
Oh please. Do other countries with lower gun deaths go through the big brother fear as you think it would.
3
My what a picture you paint. There's plenty of room between the feverish hellscape you've concocted and what your own liberal citizens want. The reality is that those of us who live in mostly gun-free societies, mass shootings JUST DON'T HAPPEN. I guess if you're happy to accept the deaths of innocent people because you can't imagine any other way to feel powerful other than carrying assault weapons, then it's a pretty sad state of affairs.
4
Easy solution is to restrict the sale of ammunition. One can only purchase it by belonging to the National Guard, or being fully licensed every year to shoot and have full liability insurance that requires guns to be locked up in the home. You can own all the guns you want that way. And play with your toys at the shooting range. Just leave the rest of us alone.
3
Reporter: "Senator, what are your reactions to today's shooting?"
Senator: "My first reaction is that if more of the folks at the church were armed, then perhaps fewer people would have been killed. My second reaction is that let's not allow the liberals politicize this tragic event. The second amendment is a sacred right. My third reaction is that my heart and prayers go out to all the victims. I will call for a minute of silence when the Senate goes into session tomorrow."
8
And more than half the population of this little town will go out next November and make sure they vote for a Congressman who swears by the 2nd Amendment. One of those "over my dead body" kind of people when it comes to rational gun control. So, yeah, "My thoughts and prayers " and all that but if the people of this town want real support from me, let them wake up and stop this stupidity of allowing the Republican half of Congress to be a wholly owned subsidiary of the NRA. Till then, I wish them best of luck.
1
More proof that 'God' doesn't exist.
More proof that prayers are useless.
More proof that there are too many unregulated guns and bullets in America.
More proof that Americans and their misrepresentatives in Congress have a serious mental block on guns and public safety.
More proof that gun 'free-dumb' has collapsed America in a disgraceful shooting gallery.
More proof that America needs single-payer mental healthcare for all.
More proof that America's right-wing doesn't give a damn about human life, especially with their insulting, disgusting 'prayers' as Americans continue to drop dead from coast to coast.
305
Extremely well said. Something must be done.
1
Another stomach-turning tragedy.
I am so fortunate that at my synagogue many of the congregants (legally) wear weapons to services. They are very well trained as well.
You might be shocked at how many men and women in my community have acquired firearms and training over the last several years. At the same time, we know that gun ownership is a calculated risk and an imperfect solution. It is even possible that congregation members in this tragedy were armed as well. But we still must prepare the best we can.
Reality is that even with the strictest gun laws and a total ban, a determined killer/terrorist will find an illegal weapon, or even a truck. Reality is that police will often not get there in time. Reality is that today's world has more violent crazies than ever - for a variety of reasons. Reality is we know we might be targets.
You can continue living with the fantasy that advocating for stricter laws and background checks is adequate measure to protect your family. We are grateful for a country that allows us the freedom to arm and train ourselves and be as prepared as possible defend our loved ones.
Keep advocating for better screening and stricter laws.
Get armed and prepared.
265
right---the first thing I think of when I say Shabbat shalom at services is, who is carrying a gun. Glad I'm not a member of your synagogue.
68
So is it their fault they weren't armed?
28
With all due respect, Jack, this US you describe, with all its citizens armed and ready, is much scarier to me than the country we live in.
61
The military, with its skyrocketing levels of rape, domestic violence, suicide, insanity, alcoholism etc continues to be the ideal proving ground for domestic terrorists. Yet no one proposes banning ex-military from owning guns, which is simply common sense.
7
It's clear only cetain view points are published on this comment section. Lol
Unless I bash right wing conservatism I have no voice.
I think this is a Texas problem that should be resolved by Texans.
If they are comfortable with this being the cost of their gun laws, then so am I.
Have a nice day.
So many comments slamming guns, and few blaming the losers who pull the triggers.
Let's examine one possibility why that is:
As of yesterday, there have been 569 murders in Chicago alone for 2017. And by the way, where is THAT outrage?
I'll guarantee every one of the murderers in Chicago has a rap sheet with a minimum 50 arrests, yet they were/are out and about in society because in Cook County you nearly need to be a convicted serial killer to get any jail time at all.
No one wants to lock up thugs here. Our "justice" system is comprised of bleeding heart idiot judges and attorneys who are likely paid off by the drug rings to look the other way or demand slaps on the wrist.
We have plenty of gun "laws". It'd be nice to actually enforce one once in a while.
You'll notice that most of the mass shootings end up with the gunman being killed or shot. Rarely were they darling little sweethearts who just had a bad day. If they shot just one or two people in Chicago, they'd likely get off on a technicality or serve very little time. So in their screwed up heads they'd might as well take out as many as they can at once to make their screwed up statements to get noticed.
If, however, an Islamic terrorist shot these people, all we'd hear from the Left is the ol "lone wolf" excuse, so we'd overlook it and blame it on the mental health of one individual. And--my favorite: "terrorist killings affect so few people anyway, and it's the price we must pay for freedom".
Oh.
4
It's a gun problem AND a mental health issue. BOTH need to be addressed. The government could freeze the sale of assault-rifles until new legislation can be put into place. Many may argue this is not enough, but it is a start.
Fixing the mental-health issues w/ in this country is much more complex, but the system could certainly be improved with some thoughtful changes.
Most of our problems seem to do with financial greed; it's overwhelming & nauseating.
Christian or not, the Bible has some good advice. For example, God tells us we cannot serve Him & money. It's pretty obvious that making $$$ is more important than actually helping our brother.
As redundant as it sounds continue to fight the good fight! Call your congressmen, senators, reps, etc. and make your voice heard!
12
It's been a little more than a month since the mass shooting in Las Vegas. Be honest, how many of those who are clamoring for something to be done in light of this past Sunday's mass shooting in Texas were still apoplectic or even upset on this past Saturday about the Las Vegas shooting? People will wring their hands over the Texas shooting as well and then put it behind them because the truth is we really are not disturbed enough about the availability of guns in this country to do anything about it once these horrific incidents fade from the headlines.
19
Apple pie is out. The appropriate saying is, "It's as American as Mass Murder."
21
You know that we must have lost touch with sanity somewhere when the argument for an armed citizenry is, a mass murderer might have only killed a handful of people if there had been armed people in a church. Yes, and people firing back at the guy might themselves have killed a couple churchgoers. This is reductio ad absurdum played out with the lives of our loved ones every day (including the thousands and thousands killed or wounded needlessly by guns that are NOT the victims of terrorism and mass murder).
What violence is it in the American soul that makes the Second Amendment more sacred than any other (as we see with the assaults on the First and others that aren't tolerated with the Second), even though it is the one that makes the LEAST arguable sense given modern day weaponry and the characteristics of the USA in the 21st century? The Second was written when a guy walking into a church armed would, at best, be able to kill or injure a handful of people if he could manage to carry in 5 or so pre-loaded one-shots and actually hit someone with each shot. After that, wrestled to the ground while trying to take the 7-8 seconds (if he was good) required to reload one gun.
Let's get back to sanity, folks.
14
Once again we see the hallmarks of a man capable of such an atrocity- he was a domestic abuser, a child abuser, and had demonstrated cruelty to animals. He was court-martialed. He was surly to his neighbors. There is no reason on earth this man should have had access to weapons of any kind. Connect the dots, Congress. White American men who abuse women are the biggest threat to all of us. Take away their guns NOW.
20
To those praising an armed citizen of stopping this guy, that HAS NOT been confirmed yet according to what was just said by law enforcement at a press conference that just ended.
3
Just try to bring an assault weapon inside the halls of Congress. I say what’s good for the goose is good for the gander – allow any weapon that can be legally purchased inside the halls of Congress. Isn’t that our second amendment right? Maybe if Congress becomes sitting ducks subject to the same risk the rest of us are – even in a house of worship – they might give their support of the NRA a second thought. Just to be fair members of Congress should also be allowed to pack heat for protection and see how the NRA’s premise works out for them.
23
It is too early to talk about gun control or gun safety? This is NRA speak for let's not talk about this at all. But these are happening far too often with far too many innocents being killed. To not do anything certainly perpetuates the continuation if not the escalation of these acts of violence.
1
As Bill Maher recently stated, 'thoughts and prayers are contradictory'. Thus they should be eliminated from the lexicon.
9
7% of the town's population murdered with an assault rifle while praying and Trump and republicans say the problem is that we do not have enough guns and praying. Plus there is a possibility that 2 additional people where murdered by an armed "bystander" who may have continued to shoot people from a moving car.
4
My sincere condolences to the families of innocent people, killed or maimed God, It sounds so hollow.The Texas Governor said he and other Texans were asking for God's comfort, God's guidance and God's healing. What a bloody hypocrite! God must cringe away from Christians like him. Would God, allow such horrifying carnage in His own house and murder of His and believers and worshipers - not only his flock alone but everybody? And our Master Hypocrite says it was a mental health problem. Even if it was a mental health issue (not!) why did this ex- Airforce guy who was court-martialed for assaulting his wife and child, dishonorably discharged and who served prison time be allowed to keep a gun according to military protocol. This was a real rich assassin. Period. Have guns, will kill. Reminds me of the Sandy Hook mother with her penchant to have a huge collection of guns. Ironic she was short dead with one of her own guns by her own son. People, deranged or otherwise can only kill people if they have guns, Guns kill people. For all the politicians Dems and Republicans what is the critical number of deaths before they move to do anything about guns? Regulations come with loopholes and therefore not enough. Only a BAN and a program to disarm like Australia did will stop this epidemic of violence. For gun owners' reasons shotguns should more than suffice.The 2nd amendment has lost it's relevance. And please leave God out of all this!
11
Possible solution: every year psychologically test, and re-test all school children from 1st grade to 12th grade high school to find those with the propensity to commit maniacal mass murders. Problem with this solution is that the constitution would consider this an infringement on individual rights. However, some of your 5-6 yr old school children of today will be your James Holmes or Adam Lanza or Deven Patrick Kelley of tomorrow.
QUESTION: Why was a man with the equivalent of either a federal high-level misdemeanor or a low-level felony (at least a year’s military imprisonment following court marshal) , and heavy training in how to kill (what else to call basic training?) - involving family assault ALLOWED TO OWN GUNS?
A life-long resident of Austin told me once that in Texas, even its most progressive city, that everyone in the state grows up with guns around.
Sort of like Lebanon or Afghanistan, I guess.
So taking away the “right “of a wife beater to own as many guns as he wants is more than “unconstitutional “ it’s just against culture - while there are more guns than people in the US, I’d bet a weighted map would show a big concentration in Texas, and the South in general.
And what about the armed ‘hero ‘ now being played up?
What’s an average guy on a one-stoplight town doing on a Sunday morning, walking around packing a pistol?
That’s the culture.
It cannot be changed without a proper understanding of the 2nd Amendment of the country’s Constitution and real enforcement. In short, it was a States’ Rights law allowing people to OWN muzzle-loaders at home so they could quickly form up what we now call the National Guard, not the alleged right of convicted violent offenders to own an arsenal or anybody to walk the streets armed with a piece on hip or pocket.
There’s a whole section of the nation I wouldn’t visit without a level 3A Kevlar vest AND shorts & a bomb-squad helmet.
1
How very sad. However what we need are not tears & candles but action to stop the gun lobby. These people and their supporters need to be taken to task and be held partially responsible.
I wonder that those among the dead how many of them believed that gun control was wrong. Those hypocrites who label this tragedy as deed by a deranged person (because he was a white American "Christian") and not a Muslim display their racist feelings.
1
Justice Scalia (very conservative) wrote in the 2008 Heller Second Ammendment case:
"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose…"
IT IS NOT AN UNLIMITED RIGHT TO UNRESTRICTED GUN OWNERSHIP.
Completely allowed to have common sense restrictions on types of weapons and who can own them under what circumstances.
No more empty prayers for kids whose bodies are made into chopped meat by bullets. OK?
(Americans should have access to the pictures of these slaughters. Show it so we can be revolted into political action)
No more talk about Second Ammendment rights, OK?
IT IS NOT AN UNLIMITED RIGHT TO UNRESTRICTED GUN OWNERSHIP.
How about talking about the right of all of us not to be slaughtered like animals?
Search "common sense gun laws" and support groups that are making a difference.
How about doing that today.
That's a form of prayer.
4
Suggestion for ISIS: If you really want Americans to die, don't waste your time with bombs and bombers,don't waste your money on trucks, just support the NRA!
10
It's a “mental health problem at the highest level” and not “a guns situation” and the clearest sign that the insanity is a national condition is the virtually unrestricted access the country provides to weapons of mass destruction like AR-15s.
From the frequency of such mental health problems in the US, perhaps the rest of the world should assume that Americans in general are completely crazy (something in the water maybe?), turn the country into a giant mental ward where all countries can hospitalize their insane, and let them get on with killing each other off. Sane Americans could be allowed out if they can pass appropriate psychiatric tests.
Probably wouldn't work, though. Most countries are too humane to solve their mental health problems by giving their mentally ill guns and turning them out to kill one another.
Only in America.
1
To the NY Times and all press: please publish the names of Congress members who have accepted NRA money, and how much, and how they have voted for gun control. Publish their pictures next to pictures of coffins of gun victims. Ask them in interviews what they have to say to the orphans, grandmothers, parents of Americans killed with guns. Publish the addresses of their home offices. Make it harder for them to defend the insane and cowardly notion that more guns make us safer. As with so many things, the harsh light of exposure has the power to cleanse. We can remove the cancerous, profit-motivated ideology of gun ownership at any cost if we are relentless as Americans
10
I live in Texas and I own guns. I also have a license to carry a handgun. I never do though, because I don't know if I would have the presence of mind or adequate judgment during a crisis to know when to take someone else's life or even who to shoot at. The one-day course required to get a license to carry teaches nothing about that or how to de-escalate a conflict. I'm sure there are many folks in Texas that should have the same dilemma as me but they don't, and they are armed.
3
How many times can you call something a tragedy if it keeps happening? Americans have created a violent society. People chant vileness at political rallies, on the internet, at each other everyday on the streets of this country. We pretend to care. This is no tragedy, just another day in America!
2
No thoughts. No prayers. Just despair. What's it gonna take?
2
May you all in Sutherland Springs who are in mourning be comforted in your time of darkness. May those of you who were worshipping and survived the terror and the sounds you heard in that church soon vacate your mind; may what was possibly the most horror you have ever, and will ever experience may soon be gone. May peace replace the agony of those moments that brought harm to innocence. Families of those who did not return home on Sunday, HOLD ON, the balm of peace will be yours.
In the same voice, I say to those men who are supposedly in leadership roles for you, and us, in Washington: how dare you speak condolences from one side of your mouth, and not act on your meaningless words! You all who do not address what, and whom, you must about "gun laws" are just as guilty as the man wielding the gun and took the innocent lives of those people who probably sent you to your "jobs" in governing, and your payback is vanity, money and ego balming that is pathetic. In the same voice, I say to you who, in your brazen cowardice, masquerade as representatives of the state of Texas, may you NOT be comforted as you continue to be instrumental in further ravaging the homeland. Do you not know of the power of truth, or has privilege deadened your senses? Yes, "so goes the White House, so goes the world," "we, the people," challenge you to stand up, show courage and prove your mettle, as some real men of the past have done.
4
A growing percentage of suicides are now choosing to kill others before dying by their own hand. I believe this problem is going to get much worse.
The country with the most guns and the easiest access to those guns - including the deadliest military style - has most mass shootings.
Many more by far.
It also has one of the worst records on measures of health and happiness among its population. Compared to other wealthy nations.
And, a wider gap between rich and poor.
About to get wider courtesy of Republican Radicals in Congress.
An unhappy population, sinking further into financial insecurity.
With literally millions desperate to keep above water.
Add the guns and it's a guarantee that a certain small number will act in this manner on a regular basis.
Every nation, every person chooses.
The same path daily with the same results.
Or, some small, first step toward improvement.
We don't have to surrender to the way things are.
That's the first step to getting better.
Justice Scalia (very conservative) wrote in the 2008 Heller Second Ammendment case:
"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose…"
IT IS NOT AN UNLIMITED RIGHT TO UNRESTRICTED GUN OWNERSHIP.
Start with any common sense laws on access to the worst weapons.
It's smart and constitutional.
2
To many what I am writing may well sound awful, unsympathetic, and perhaps even dismissive --- but even the informed left has no understanding of how deceitfully and massively convoluted this supposedly "gun issue" is.
The financially poor little domestic NRA, it's powerless members, and its barely profitable domestic small-arms makers are nothing but a tiny marketing foil for the 1000x more profitable and massively powerful, but laughably described, 'Defense Industry' --- which funds this 'front organization', purely because the NRA's 'marketing message' of "The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a (bigger) gun".
The leading global weapons makers (70%+ American) --- which G.B Shaw aptly called the "Merchants of Death", and which Emperor Trump is currently shilling for in Japan (as all American faux-Emperor/presidents have done since the end of the Second World War of Empires), constitutes the real power (and money) behind their little NRA lobbying 'front men'.
Of course, until at least 3% to 5% of Americans realize that they are merely powerless 'subjects' of this first in world history; 'effectively-Disguised', 'truly-Global', and crony 'Capitalist-fueled' EMPIRE and fire a; loud, public, 'in the streets', but totally non-violent "Shout (not shot) heard round the world" nothing will ignite an essential Second American people's peaceful patriotic "Political Revolution Against Empire"
2
A few short weeks ago, I'm sure the parishioners of this small Baptist church were praying for the victims in Las Vegas. I bet not one of them had any inkling that this type of violence could reach their small community in such short time and in such a violent way.
I agree with the another poster. Show us the photos. Show us the same small children that the neighbor across the street saw as he entered the church. That photo would be our own "Modest Proposal" argument for ending and confiscating assault weapons across our nation. And if that photo doesn't change your heart and mind, then think about how your God will judge you for your inaction.
4
The tragic and infuriating reality is that there are no longer any places where mass shootings are "unthinkable". Schools, movie theaters, nightclubs, baseball fields, music concerts, churches, Wal Marts, workplaces - all of them have experienced mass shootings.
If we are fearful living our daily lives without worrying about mass shootings, is that not the very definition of terrorism?
I'll clarify further- this terrorism is caused by the NRA and their lust for power, profit and the endless proliferation of firearms, and by the Republican Party and their endless lust for power and personal profit. The joining together of these two cruel, inhumane organizations has loosed endless bloodshed upon innocent Americans.
The situation is disgusting and indefensible. I am sick and tired of the stupid, superficial reflexes of remote and selfish Republican politicians who offer their "thoughts and prayers" and beat us over the head with their fictional and romanticized versions of the Second Amendment.
The mass slaughter of innocent civilians is not the mark of a great nation. it is the mark of a failing society. The safety and well-being of American citizens is much more important than the juvenile insecurity of men who hoard firearms, and more important than some vestigial scrap of legislation from the 18th Century.
2
What a nightmare that must have been for the church goers. Considering Texas' gun culture I don't understand why their gun possession laws did not keep them safe. That is the intent of their gun laws isn't it, if many people carry guns?
2
It’s very difficult to kill dozens of people, even caught off guard, with a knife, sword, machete, handgun, shotgun, hunting rifle, baseball bat, nun chucks, axe, chainsaw, hammer, or antique blunderbuss. At least some of these items are more than sufficient to serve for personal defense (against mugging for example) or defense of home or property.
When the inevitable “deranged” individual decides to use one of these weapons to hurt themselves or others, the result, although tragic, will always be limited to a few.
Technology has now afforded the individual with the power to kill dozens of people in a short period of time without warning. This technology? Assault weapons. Originally developed to help win wars when used by,they are now legal for civilians here in the US. The menace has been unleashed. We did it. Now the menace can appear anywhere, anytime.
This is simple. 2 choices.The first is to outlaw assault weapons (high rate of fire, high round capacity, high range). The second amendment can be faithfully upheld by permitting handguns, shotguns, and hunting rifles (and historic muskets, pistols, and the beloved blunderbuss) for civilians. Leave the assault weapons to the police and military (I’ll take my “good guy with a gun” wearing a blue uniform and a badge or fatigues and stripes, thank you). The second choice is to hire, train, and pay ten million (at least) new police officers, and place armed guards at each and every public place. Choose one. Vote.
2015: 372 mass shootings.
2016: 383 mass shootings
2017: 304 mass shootings
The U.S. ranks No. 1 in the world in terms of firearms per capita—with 88.8 guns per 100 people—and it has the highest homicide-by-firearm rate in the developed world. The problem is so endemic that gun violence is now the third leading cause of death for children in the U.S.
So what do we as American's do?
Just sit by and wait for tomorrow's mass shooting news story, hoping that is not a member of our family this time.
7
The self-inflicted moral suicide of these United States by allowing the unrestricted selling, and buying, and maiming, weapons of mass destruction goes on uninterrupted by the cowardly and hypocritical silence of republican prostitutes. They know full well, and so does the N.R.A. and the gun lobby's greed in selling guns, that military style semi-automatic weapons have no place in any rational, civilized, principled society. This, in addition to the 'criminally' lax rules so the acquisition of guns may go on unrestrained by background checks and the essential need for wide inter-communications of all agencies to identify human aggressive types out there. We are a violent country, cowboy-style, unperturbed by our undisciplined will to do as pleased, sane rules of engagement be damned. Who are we, emotionally unstable individuals, and with an advanced technology we are unprepared to deal with? And with the marvel of the Internet and digital prowess, where prolific information that ought to lead to better understanding, even wisdom, has led us ashtray by social media's irresponsible diffusion of fake news, even racist poison, to keep us divided in fear and hate 'a la Trump'? To add insult to injury, we are eager to find excuses not to sit down, and stop the carnage, find humane solutions to our problems? Those that proclaim, falsely, that the problem is not gun profusion but human frailty, wake up and be honest about it. Let's debate our differences, but please without guns.
4
In trying to account for this seemingly insane, inscrutable incident of mass murder, I wonder how many of us are willing to look at ourselves, our own attitudes, our politics and our own behavior to see if we played a role in the violent outbreak in Sutherland Springs, Texas? No, I am not pointing a finger at the NRA or Trump or people who oppose gun control legislation as so many in these comments are wont to do.
My point is this, and I believe it is an axiom: VIOLENCE BEGETS VIOLENCE! Always! Am I a violent person? Was the unspeakable violence in Texas an indirect consequence of something I did
Not me! I am a peace-loving, progressive person who has never committed an unprovoked act of violence. NEVER! But, what about MY agents? What about people who work for MY government whose salaries are paid from MY taxes? What about weapons bought with MY taxes to arm MY agents--including weapons of mass destruction capable of killing millions of people in a blinding flash? Hydrogen bombs do not build themselves. They require politicians making laws, voters electing them, engineers, military commanders, and, above all, taxpayers willing to foot the bill. VIOLENCE BEGETS VIOLENCE!
When we vote for a tax increase to better fund the schools our children attend, are we unaware that taxes are only and always collected by means of force, violence and coercion? Do we excuse these minor, remote acts of personal; initiatory violence as harmless, knowing that VIOLENCE BEGETS VIOLENCE?
1
Sometime last year after another mass shooting, I started thinking about what I would do if a shooter attacked my gym. How would I get off the treadmill, hide, make it to the exit? How would I make it out of the weight room since there's only one entrance? What if I was in the pool? Would I even hear him coming if I was swimming? How long could I hold my breath when I was scared to death? I thought about being in the grocery store. We've already had one shooting there, a couple of years ago, a disgruntled employee. Where can you hide in a grocery aisle? I couldn't even remember where the other exits were other than the front doors. I made a note to check the next time I shopped there. I tried to decide what to do if a shooter rampaged on the 40 mile bike trail that I ride several times a week. Or in the park where I run. How would I survive a shooter at the local movie theater? A man was shot in an argument over texting in a theater here not too long ago. If I try to sit behind the little wall that separates some of the seat rows that could offer some protection but put me too far away from the exit, what to do? How many other Americans have had these thoughts, made these plans? I say Americans because there are many countries where these thoughts are so totally foreign. Where gun violence is rare. I shouldn't have to give serious thought to survival in my daily comings and goings, how I would handle a shooter with an assault weapon at the gym, grocery, bike trail or park.
5
Be grief stricken. Be consoling. Be angry even. Be anything but surprised that 'such a thing could happen in our town'. When you weaponize yourself as a country like the US has, the only surprising thing is that these types of tragedies do not happen more often.
7
Well, I think everyone knows by now that it all boils down to money. The powerful NRA donates millions of dollars to congress and has all the politicians in their pocket. If no legislation was passed after Sandy Hook, then nothing will ever happen. Unfortunately these mass shootings will just keep occurring on a regular basis and the president will continue to say that guns aren't the problem. It's a very sad state of affairs this country is in and there doesn't seem to be a way out without strong leadership from the top.
2
So the new normal is as follows: In the US, whenever I go to Costco to buy my Nearly Naked Popcorn and rotisserie chicken, I have to face the chance that I might not come out of the store alive? When I go to Kaiser for a blood test I may be shot dead in a place of healing? When I go to the Denver Indian Market in January I may be one of the two or three dozen attendees mowed down by a lunatic with a grudge and an assault rifle? These possibilities may sound extreme but it seems that's where we're headed in this country. And we're just as vulnerable to the trigger-happy citizen with a gun as the criminals. The Congress, the NRA and every stubbornly blind gun ownership advocate have blood on their hands; they too are responsible for this carnage. We cannot become prisoners in our own homes, afraid for our lives to venture out.
1
In 1996 , Australia passed the National Firearms Agreement after a mass shooting in Tasmania in April of that year. A 28 year old man, armed with a semi-automatic rifle, shot and killed 35 people and injured 18 others. Since then the number and rate of homicides has fallen significantly.
Almost no one in Japan owns a gun. Most kinds are illegal, and their murder rate is the second lowest in the world.
During a recent trip to South Africa, we found almost not one owned a gun. Until 2003, firearms were the leading cause of homicide in South Africa. Since then there has been a significant year by year decline in firearm deaths. It is extremely difficult to obtain a gun in South Africa.
No one in these countries seems to be outraged over extreme gun control laws.
America is falling behind in so many areas of progressive leadership.
By the way, excellent and brilliant essay this morning by NYT's editorial staff on our sad history of mass shootings.
2
White guy shoots dead 58 and injures another 400+ in Vegas Trump tells Americans " He had problems and was mentally ill". Muslim kills 8 in New York with Home Depot truck, Trump calls him an " animal". White guy shoots up church in Texas killing 26 ( 14 are children ) Trump says the guy was "mentally ill". Anyone see the racism ? While Obama was President and several of these shootings happened Trump called Obama a " weak leader" for NOT stopping the violence.
4
Many commenters try to lay this at the doorstep of mental illness. There was no diagnosis of mental illness for the gunman. He was out of the military. What is mentally ill is this country's attitude toward gun possession of semi- and automatic weapons.
4
Instead of mourning, praying and attending funerals and candlelight vigils, vote every Republican, local, state and federal, out of office in the next elections. That will be a start to restoring sanity and security. It is action we can all take. For our own mental health, let us not continue about our lives feeling powerless, vulnerable and anxious. Real Americans do not accept that "nothing can be done." We are not fatalistic. We are not sheep.
4
Perhaps it's time that we stop enacting laws based on fact and policy, and take the advice of the GOP, we just pray for things to happen.
It seems to be their solution whenever a tragedy strikes, let's cut out the middleman and go right to thoughts and prayers.
Strange how the Republicans always state not to politicize situations such as this by bringing up Gun Control, yet Trump politicize the NYC attack within minutes by attacking the Visa Lottery.
2
This is a terrible thing. My heart goes out to all of those hurt by this man. The dreadful truth is that these things happen in the US because its citizens choose to allow them to. It's as simple as that.
2
I wonder; how many of our leaders in congress and in our presidential entourage actually, factually prayed after this event?
2
These are almost forecastable events they are bound to happen. I live in Canada a guy in our neighbourhood was injured in Vegas and less than 20 miles away another was killed there in the recent shooting. I know many that are for-going holidays to the US. I personally have seen gun play in Washington State in a ferry lineup where one guy edged out another and the guy raged at him with a 357 mag pistol. If this is freedom maybe ya gotta rethink it. With the amount of people with various mental issues and addiction problems, PSD etc and the proliferation of anger management issues, the grab for a gun might seem like a given for the mentally distraught. For those that like to fire guns there is that quotient of the population that is ruining for you. Man, mowing down defenceless people in a sacred place ... when are gun laws going to be enacted?
The answer is not for all citizens to carry a gun, it is to get guns out of insane people's hands. The NRA will tell us something different today. As for churches, a local church in Oakland built a protective barrier to entry to protect themselves from such attacks. If the NRA continues to own this country, more churches will need to add protection, as praying doesn't appear to be enough to save church goers.
There are a lot of non believers on this comment board. If it makes a person feel better to use the expression thoughts and prayers, let them say it. We still have religious freedom in our country and they cannot take that away from Americans -- yet. Of course, they are certainly trying.
When are all the ban happy zealot do-gooders going to mount a campaign to bring back alcohol prohibition. After all, drunk drivers kill many people.
What's the motive? Maybe, like the Las Vegas shooter, there is no prior conflict or prejudice directed towards the innocent victims. The motive is purely psychological. These are men who feel they have nothing to live for, who are contemplating suicide anyway, who have a callous disregard for the life of others, and begin to imagine that it might be a thrill to go out with a widely publicized BANG, instant fame, so everyone will remember them. It doesn't take many sick shooters to create mass carnage. Semi-automatics make it easy for them to do that.
1
I am in mourning for a country I adopted years ago. I wish I could move all my family away from this crazyness. It isn't that the US has more mentally deranged people, it is just that we have no semblance of sane gun policies, elected officials who are beholden to lobbies and not their constituents, and delusional Americans, even some NY Times readers, who really believe carrying a gun even an assault rifle will make them safe!
1
Is this enough yet? Right after Las Vegas? Still want to have your arsenals, assault rifles, automatic shot guns, with all the lovely gagets for them? The NRA is there for you ready to help.
When are the gun rights supporters and gun owners going to realize we have to stop the madness of what gun love is doing to our country. I am totally disgusted with the rigid diatribes from gun rights supporters. It is ignorance.
3
"Trump called the shooting a 'mental health problem at the highest level' and not 'a guns situation,' adding the gunman was a 'very deranged individual.'"
We have a leadership problem at the highest level. As long as we continue to let "deranged" individuals have access to assault weapons, the mass carnage will continue. As long as our "leaders" continue to take NRA money and do little more than offer thoughts and prayers, the mass carnage will continue. Something has to change, and it needs to change right now.
2
When such horrendous events occur there are always incriminations and blame shoved back and forth across our deep political/social divide. More laws or fewer laws aimed at gun ownership and use are always trending topics and anger is justifiably elevated. However, it has to be recognized that we must start from where we are with any social issue, not where our ideology tells us we should be.
One memory always jumps to the front of my mind in such times. Growing up in rural America over a half century ago meant an almost constant proximity to guns. It was such a common thing that it wasn't even noticed. I received my first gun at the age of eight and remember an old packing barrel in the local hardware store kept filled with surplus military rifles for sale. Sure, they weren't as deadly as those today, but tell that to the veterans that didn't come home. And yet, there were no such Sundays then, or even the thought that such horror could be visited on Americans by other Americans, regardless of political or religious differences.
It shouldn't be lost on anyone that the deranged person, the shooter in media vernacular, was in possession of the weapons illegally. Given this, then it must be the easy access to the weapons that is at fault, right? Easier than the barrel of rifles in the local hardware store available without even a question of purpose?
No America. There is something else at work that makes this type of news commonplace now. We must find what that is, soon.
Why doesn’t the US Military do a better job of catching and curbing obvious issues with mental health in its troops?
They train shooters, court-martial and discipline troops with bad behavior, but do nothing once those offenders are discharged back to civil society.
It’s a perfect storm for gun violence incidents.
Think about it - a delusional well trained shooter who obviously believes he is fighting “enemies”. He uses military style weapons to do the job.
How many past recent shootings involved ex-US military shooters? Higher percentage than “foreign terrorists” I would bet.
Many are the individuals who commit these atrocities that get coalesced into a group that needs to be banished. Muslims, immigrants, the mentally ill, etc. It seems clear from this event, and from many of the more recent ones that we are overlooking one significant group-those that have served in the military. Whether discharged for bad conduct, found unfit, served honorably, suffering from ptsd, ex military members appear to commit violence way out of proportion to their number.
If we as a country want to target a group of people who cause untold violence to our society let us tamp down our hosannas to those "brave men and women" who have defended our country. Let us stop paying hollow obeisance to those "hallowed" individuals who have "served so honorably. " Let us admit that whether you take a knee or stand tall, the odds of one of these horrible massacres being caused by a muslim or immigrant are probably much less than that the shooter was in the US military.
There. I have said it.
How many more prayers do these folks need? They were in church. How about reasonable gun control so that America can get a grip on its white male terrorist problem? Right, the NRA. Never mind.
1
What can the republicans say? They get millions from the NRA, who gives them their marching orders. To speak about gun control is forbidden by their bosses. Boy, this country is in deep trouble....
1
Texas gun laws prohibited Devin Kelly from owning a firearm because of his felony domestic violence conviction. Fortunately, Texas gun laws permitted the resident who lived next-door to the church to own a firearm. He grabbed his rifle and stopped the carnage by shooting Kelly as Kelly was reloading and about to reenter the church. This is what make passing effective guns laws so difficult. Which guns do you take away? We are unhappy that Kelly was armed, but glad the neighbor was armed.
The FBI Uniform Crime Report (Expanded Homicide Data Table 4: Murder Victims by Weapon) shows that 11,004 guns were used in murders during 2016. Americans own about 300 million guns. So about 0.004 percent of America guns are used as murder weapons. Americans use guns more often to commit crimes—including non-fatal crime—than they used guns for self-defense, but Americans use guns more often for self-defense than they do to murder someone. The Justice Department’s National Crime Victimization Survey shows that 235,700 Americans used guns in self-defense between 2007 and 2011, a total that works out to 47,140 incidents a year, more than four times the number (11,004) of firearms murders in 2016.
"Sending thoughts and prayers" - What is that supposed to accomplish exactly? Doesn't seem to be doing anything. What do you call it when people keep trying the same solution expecting a different outcome. Any other ideas?
1
As a gun control advocate who is well aware that America without guns would be like Italy without the tomato, may I suggest an avenue for compromise that has not been widely discussed. In many states, driver's licenses are graduated: young teenagers may drive with limits (e.g. driving must be during the daytime, an adult must be present in the vehicle), and as the driver gets older and more experienced, the limits are gradually loosened. A similar approach could be taken with guns: relatively easy access to one or two handguns for sport shooting or self-protection, but for those who feel the need to own large arsenals or AR-15s, much higher hurdles: waiting periods, heightened background checks, registration of the firearms, required insurance (indeed, requirements of this sort are already in place for fully automatic weapons). Such a system would make the burden of gun control commensurate with the risk posed by gun ownership; it would reassure responsible gun owners that gun control is not some nefarious plot to enslave them; and it would make it harder for any sociopath to walk into a gun show and emerge with enough firepower for a small army.
1
I think it's time for a special, blue ribbon commission on American gun violence. One with a charter to recommend specific legislation, if need be, and related remedies to cure what is a national sickness, one that seems to be worsening. Good grief--if you can't go to church without being shot, where are we as a nation?
Invite the NRA, mental health experts, policy experts, gun lovers, gun haters, poets, politicians, survivors of gun violence--people of good will who are not content to simply offer their thoughts and prayers every time there's a mass shooting. Perhaps former presidents Bush, Obama, or Clinton could chair. This has to be a non-partisan effort. But it will require leadership and the strong belief that there are solutions to this American shame. An English philosopher once wrote we are all part of the same continent of humanity. When part of that continent is washed away, we are all diminished. This morning we are all diminished once again. I am not a gun lover. I am not a gun hater. I know plenty of good people who own guns. They are just as sickened by the repeated slaughter of their fellow citizens as any gun control advocate. So let's get all people of good will together in one room and figure this out. We need action. We need leaders to make this happen. Where are you?
1
America has a job opening for a real Republican hero: a member of Congress with a strong track record of support for the Second Amendment who announces that he or she will no longer accept contributions from the NRA because of some of its more extremist positions and who challenges others in the party to do the same.
1
Well of course prayers and thoughts will make everything o.k. again. Not to worry.
I have never prayed, and have done as much, if not more, than the millions of prayers offered up by the gun zealots in office. Remember Einstein's description of insanity?
1
Candidate Obama ran on renewing the 1994 federal assault weapons ban, but President Obama, and the Democrat controlled House and Senate, was afraid to take on the NRA and subsequently did nothing. The ban will not be renewed as long as Republican voters are willing to accept the NRA's control of their elected officials, who won't even protect the lives of white folks, especially white women and children.
1
I haven't seen it yet, but no doubt Fox and Friends will be championing the armed neighbor who shot him, citing that guns in the hands of the good guys are GOOD!!! The larger issue will be swept away.
2
Thoughts and prayers without action are a travesty. When does anyone need to have a military style weapon if not serving on active duty?
Congress should be ashamed!
3
It's time to start writing the The Mass Murder. Domestic Violence, Accidental Death, Suicide, Political and Religious Terrorism, Hate Crimes and Cop Killing Prevention Act of 2018. Or just shorten it to The Right to Live Act.
Mass killings are no longer surprising. Since neither our leaders nor the general public seems interested in gun control and removing automatic weapons from the public sphere, let's put these killings on the back pages of our newspapers and concentrate on larger issues like corruption of the political/economic system. I am more interested in knowing about Russian influence in the American electoral process than who died and who survived in the latest massacre.
(1) Facts are still emerging as I am typing this. But talking about mental illness has become a rote-response to mass killings by a white man. (Even Dylan Roof.) Killing a bunch of people for no good reason does not mean the person has any form of diagnosable mental illness. Being so angry or attention-seeking that one is willing to kill might seems incomprehensible to most people, but it does not make the behavior the product of a diagnosable or treatable disorder.
(2) But let’s say this is about mental illness. Why is it Republicans are only concerned about treating mental illness in the 15 minutes after a mass shooting by a white man? If they are so concerned they should back some form of public healthcare that would pay for diagnosing and treating mental illness.
(3) Most people who suffer from mental illnesses are not dangerous maniacs (unlike our President.) They deserve sympathy and attention. They certainly deserve better than being mentioned only in relation to mass shootings.
4
Another trained killer turned on the public. The risk factors seem to be: mental health nut jobreligious nut job, military nut job, political nut job, capialist nut job, gutless President. Of these America has an inexhaustible supply. Trump says "it's too early" to turn to any kind of arms control that the NRA opposes-this was a "high level" mental health problem. Yeah, he beat up his wife and child. So the military jails this kook for a year and makes him worse then turns him loose on millions of soft targets, that would be we Americans.
This is such a tragedy, and my heart goes out to all those effected by this terrible shooting. When will we stop sending thoughts and prayers and start reforming gun control?
1
Taking guns away from a man with that level of anger and hatred to bear on innocent men, women and children in that peaceful setting makes me wonder what else they might do instead even without a gun. Gun control is simply all about regulating the numbers of dead and nothing more. It's just a bandage to the cut on our finger while our heads continue to get bashed in. First aide is about all we know how to do. If we immediately want to start talking the same talk about gun control right away maybe at least do it realistically and maybe fewer people will be so quick to dismiss it as nothing more than delusional empty promises that never can be met like the ones we've become so used to hearing and expecting.
Good grief. The hate and vindictiveness in many of these postings are disgusting.
America land of the free....free to shoot who you want.
Texas Attorney General said today....''The only way to stop these mass killings is for people to take guns to church'' ....if it was not so sad it would be laughable.
America you are constantly on the world's news for all the wrong reasons.
Is there anyone in the US big enough or strong enough to take on NRA because your Pesidents are not ?
2
Too many guns, too many guns, too many guns.
Heartbroken families and communities facing an impotent, cowardly Congress -- legislators bought by the NRA. It's unconscionable and insane not to act to pass sensible gun control legislation, but the empty GOP suits in Washington, including our self-serving 'president,' sold their souls long ago.
Disgusting and unacceptable.
2
Mr. Trump, the attitude and tone at the top filters down to everyone.
Anger, divisiveness, insults, disrespect, childish name calling including the disrespectful "Lock her up" mantra only encourages and incites those already mentally imbalanced and/or enraged to act out. Before you speak or tweet, consider that your malevolence might be pushing someone whose already on the edge, over it.
And while there are numerous vital other preventative measures that need to be considered and practiced, including, prohibiting assault rifles, extreme vetting of gun buyers, attention to mental health issues, and good parenting (a child who is loved, nurtured, and cherished doesn't grow up to become a weapon of mass destruction, all that is hard to come by. However, replacing your destructive tone and attitude with unifying uplifting rhetoric and behavior could work wonders. And that can be accomplished instantly if you think before you speak, and rigorously practice self discipline, self control, and the power of positive thinking.
1
It was sad to see more Hollywood types displaying their hypocrisy like Wil Wheaton attacking Paul Ryan for offering prayers to the victims of this tragedy. This is the same Hollywood that has made a fortune glorifying endless gun violence in their movies and shows, while sermonizing about gun control.
Must be the same Hollywood types who pretend to be support women's rights and equality while making a fortune showing women as nothing more than sex objects in every new production, and assaulting women with impunity behind closed doors.
1
Thoughts and prayers when more than 80 people are killed in Las Vegas and now in Texas. The killers were white Christian U.S. citizens. Extreme vetting for millons of immigrants and tourists, in particular from Muslim countries, when the killer is Muslim like in New York last week. This is pure white Christian suprematism.
1
My thoughts and prayers are with the victims of the next mass shooting and their families, and the victims and families of the one after that, and the one after that . . .
1
We are at a watershed moment in our history where the gun corporation industry rules over our Congressional leadership through the lobbyist of the NRA and the president of the United States proves himself to be the weakest link in the chain of command and puppet for corporate greed.
What's their answer?
"Buy more of "their" product to defend yourself.
Remember this! The gun manufactures and Congress have created this "wild west" mentality -where only a man or woman armed with an AR-16 can stop an assailant with a like weapon. That is what they are selling America. Gun fights in the streets of America to protect America.
The cash cow of he gun manufactures of America, and the NRA and Congress and Trump by stating that the legal system is a joke is promoting this kind of insanity.
1
"President Trump called the shooting 'a mental health problem at the highest level' and not 'a guns situation,' adding the gunman was a 'very deranged individual.'
"...Gov. Greg Abbott said that he and other Texans were asking 'for God’s comfort, for God’s guidance and for God’s healing for all those who are suffering.'”
And on NPR radio coverage of the mass shooting incident yesterday, I heard a local sheriff or police spokesperson warn the media not to treat this as a "gun issue" and that "this has happened before and it will happen again."
Also, last week in Salt Lake City, a Chinese student at the University of Utah was killed in a car jacking by a 20-something guy in a green pickup truck with Colorado license plates. He and his wife had killed an older man that they befriended at a CO trailer park and stolen his green pickup truck.
and so it goes in the land of the NRA
So pray away, but I think the message is "Heaven helps those who help themselves."
Let's try common sense--for a change, and do what other advanced countries do that have no where near the number of gun deaths the USA has.
See: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/australia-gun-...
Given the number of mass shootings and deranged/mentally ill individuals with easy access to guns in the USA, background checks are essential (not foolproof, of course), and NO civilian needs to own rapid-firing military weapons.
Or are we too mentally ill as a nation to act?
2
Dishonorably discharged people are prohibited from obtaining guns under federal law. His killing rampage was halted by people who are legally allowed to carry guns.
Would the Islamic terrorist in NYC have been stopped had legally armed people been there?
God didn't save those people from a cruel murderer. Sadly He never will. We need gun regulations to save our society from mass shooting, a horrible trend that has been in-style for way too long. Please call your representatives and try to convince them.
Meanwhile, in Chicago, 762 murders, 3,550 shooting incidents, and 4,331 shooting victims in 2016. But all the Lib readers of the NY Times want to focus on the evil NRA and 2nd Amendment supporters when a mass shooting takes place by someone who clearly has mental health issues or, in the case of the Charleston AME Church shooting, an undeniable agenda. But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of making your point! (BTW, I'm not a gun owner.)
To the Republicans who say that this is not a guns issue but a mental health issue, I ask:
1. Why is funding to fight mental health issue and to provide care and treatment for those afflicted not a priority in their budget proposals?
2. Why was mental health coverage not mandatory in the minimum required health insurance plans under their so-called "American Healthcare Act" (which, thankfully, got the sound beating that it deserved in the Senate)?
4
This has to stop. There is no such thing as responsible gun ownership. By owning a gun you are saying that the right to gun ownership is more important than human life. We have a moral obligation, no, a moral imperative, to protect human life. Guns, made for the sole purpose of killing, are anathema to life.
I, for one, have decided to do all I can to work to overturn the second amendment. We have a problem in this country when we choose to put the recreational use of deadly weapons ahead of life. There are those of us who believe that regulations (Remember the "Well regulated" clause in the second amendment?) could help solve the problem, but nothing happens. If you choose to do nothing to stop this madness then you are part of the problem. And you are complicit.
1
These killings have become so commonplace and with out political leaders unwilling to do anything about it, I'm really left with just thinking who cares? This is obviously what we want as a country since we're unwilling to do anything about it. Every time one of these tragedies happens it's old news after a couple of days and we move on. Plus the gun manufacturers make tons of money off of it and that's all that really matters right? Money. So whatever America, who cares. This is the sad country we've become.
1
According to some commenters, it is very important we all be armed for our protection. It seems highly unlikely that, in a Texas church, no one else was "carrying". So why weren't these "good guys" able to stop the shooting?
Is anyone aware of a gofundme page like there was for Las Vegas, or something similar so we can help out the victims?
I'm already hearing this narrative: The tragedy would have been much worse had it not been for the "hero" with a gun who shot and chased the killer away. See? Gun control would have made this a much worse tragedy.
Trump said is a "mental health issue." He's right, but not in the way he meant it.
2
I noticed that the editorial on the front page is titled: "It's not too soon to debate gun control". It takes at least two sides to have a debate. It doesn't matter if it's too soon as long as only one side is willing to participate. Democrats can talk among themselves all they want, but until some Republicans decide to demonstrate some leadership on this, nothing will happen. Even if Democrats regain power and do something, it will just be overturned later as happened with the assault weapons ban. Anything meaningful needs to be a bipartisan effort.
2
Does anyone look at the insurance companies and know which ones cover comprehensive mental health care? I'm guessing that the answer is "not many".
1
"President Trump called the shooting a “mental health problem at the highest level” and not “a guns situation,”
Oh for crying out loud, any 101 Psych Class student realizes that this is a mental health problem. But it is ALSO a gun problem. Murderous deeds begin with a sick mind. Carrying out murderous needs with a gun solidifies the gun argument.
Not one single piece of gun legislation has been passed since the Sandy Hook slaughter. If ever gun laws were going to be changed in this county, I was confident that was the time it would happen. But nothing happened. And people continue to be murdered every day. Why is it still so simple and easy to obtain any kind of firearm? And yes, once again, nothing by continued silence from the NRA and hollow condolences from President Trump hover over this all too familiar tragedy.
I should not have to feel that nothing will ever change. With all of this talk about potential ISIS attacks and nuclear war . . . it's the unstable American with guns that I fear most.
2
I am an Australian now resident in Ohio. Over my life I have had some contact with firearms but cannot name more than the basic models. Last year at a large flea market event I witnessed a transaction between two men. On the table was what looked like some variant of an M16 in an open case. As soon as the second man saw it on the table he approached the vendor, no bartering, no conversation, he handed over his money and left. It was all done in about 60 seconds. Was it an air rifle designed to look like the real thing? Probably not, given the amount of money, the speed of the transaction and the demeanor of the men. If what I saw was not illegal, why did the buyer act so guilty? Almost certainly it was a real gun, obtained easier than it was for me to buy a fern in a planter. Maybe it was not working at present, but the purchaser clearly intended to make it work if that was the case. No background check, no registration, no waiting period. The more freely guns are available the more there are to change hands cheaply, the more they can fall into the wrong hands, and as the statistics repeatedly show, the more they are used to kill innocents.
4
Can't wait for Church, concerts and movies theatres to be stocked with gunholders. God forbid there is a next time as the cross fire will be like a scene from "Shootout at the OK corral "with people dying left and right from friendly fire. Will they then be guilty of murder also? When the police arrive, how will they recognize the good guys from the bad guys?
3
HOW MANY MORE Mass shootings will it take before US citizens rise up to demand that the Second Amendment be observed in its entirety, based on the original intent of the framers of the constitution? Meaning that the use of guns will be related to the formation of organized government militia?
1
We don't merely need "gun control", we need the mandatory confiscation of operational military-style weapons, under penalty of imprisonment.
You can never know when a formerly law abiding citizen will go "postal", but you can know that when they do, they will do far less damage if they aren't equipped with weapons fit for a military invasion.
4
I hope state by state we start to enact common sense laws to prevent these kinds of massacres. Congress and this president will do nothing, so the progressive states must take the lead. This has been the case with virtually every advance we have made in this country. Look at the makeup today of the original thirteen colonies who have consistently led the way forward: 10 out of 13 are Democratic, economically prosperous, progressive on social issues, healthcare, equal rights, and on and on. Now we have the prospect of a "blue wall" on the West Coast as well.
It's time to act.
If it is not a "gun situation", then what is it? It may be an etymology situation. It seems some folks have no problem dismissing it as not a "gun situation" but no problem referring to all shootings as "evil." What then would be the "good?" Possibly, we have become inured as a society to gun shootings and the ubiquitous presence of firearms. Possibly, we view "evil" as something ever present but remote somehow, and futile to be combated by acts of legislation, law, regulation, and enforcement. The nation (and the world) should not be accepting of violence as a facet of life. Our nation is better than this. Our species is better than this. If we are going to colloquialize our existence, we should aspire to our own humanity. And evil is not a necessity. The word of law can be good.
1
Dear Congress,
If not now, then when?
2
When the President just offers the ( usual) prayers, when the Party who got him elected just does the usual same , when none offers any policy other than praying that same God after the ( usual) killings, all thinking Americans should start drawing parallels: others elsewhere pray before the killings, they pray a God presumably demanding them.
The American People, people in America are witnessing daily the very liquefaction of their country: only they can and must act before they realize they are nothing better than other praying worsts.
3
Yes, Mr. Trump, this is a "mental health issue at the highest level" I would add that it is a mental health issue endemic to our society. Don't you see that more guns are NOT the answer? The violence will never end that way. At some point this has to stop, hopefully before we all shoot each other, all the "good guys" with guns.
4
A violent nut-case with a military assault rifle---the current recipe for mass killings in the US. Common sense says its time for gun control and record checks.
If guns make America safer, why is it exactly that the US has more of these shootings and mass killings than any other developed country? Compare your statistics. The President dismisses it as a mental health issue rather than a gun issue. Guess what? Other countries have citizens who also suffer from mental health problems. But you don't see these mass attacks on anywhere near the level that happen in the US. I wonder why.
4
I am unsure as to why these stories are on the front page given they are becoming so commonplace.
It is obvious guns are more important than people in the US so why all the fuss...just put it together with the weather...there will be a 20% chance of showers and 20 people people killed in mass shooting in _______(insert name of place here). Then you can recycle all the same news stories gun control blah blah blah...
What I don’t understand is how conservatives say we’re “politicizing” these situations when we’re requesting protection from being murdered so easily.
Yes, we’re asking for gun control. Not to spite anyone else, but because GUNS are kind of the common denominator when it comes to GUN deaths.
3
There are millions of atheists, and they are not evil crazy like this sob was. Just because someone doesn't believe, doesn't make them hate everyone and become a mass murderer. There are people who are extremely religious who have done the same thing. That doesn't make all religious people into crazy mass murderers. Centennial Olympic Park bombing is just one example of that.
I have friends who are atheist, and they do not begrudge me my beliefs, nor I them. They donate to causes and charities, two help out at the battered women's shelter. They don't live evil lives, they just live their lives. While being an atheist might be part of his extreme reasoning for him, it is not the normal reasoning for an atheist.
There are mentally ill in all walks of life.
3
I am beside myself. Again. I wrote another email to the White House. Another email to the NRA membership department (of which I am not a member). Now should I start writing to the gun manufacturers? I don't pray so I cannot offer prayers. But I will make a donation to a group that supports gun regulations and hope that my small efforts mean something.
I'm in favor of making the carrying of concealed weapons a felony again, regardless of what is used to do the concealing.
1
I wonder how many Democrats secretly own registered guns? I bet you would be surprised at the number?
1
At what point will the gun enthusiasts take even the least responsibility for this carnage? There is no other hobby that facilitates mass murder.
And then the "price of freedom" types -- OK, you pay for it!
This cruel, angry man just killed 26, and shot another 20. Estimating the wrongful deaths at 5 M$ each (typical wrongful death tort cost when there is some entity that can pay it), that is 130 M$, the injured surely average at least 1 M$ each ... so over 150 M$ of direct costs. Now add up all the Police costs, the legal costs... this mass murder cost well over 200 M$, certainly.
So, NRA, gun enthusiasts , why isn't a one of you stepping up to help pay for the costs of the victims? Why do you shrug and talk about "the price of freedom" and "our prayers are with you?"
What is happening is that the peaceable citizens of our country are being preyed upon by the angry disturbed, random, piecemeal ... every angry loser who cannot take it anymore and wants to kill a lot of people is claimed to have a "constitutional right" to do so with a very convenient method.
What is it that the gun crowd wants? The evidence before us is that they want this carnage, even relish it. No other business or hobby has the sales proposition "you need our product, to defend yourself from somebody else with our product," and no other product that claims protective powers is so lousy at it as guns.
Nonetheless, every shooting like this sells guns.
1
For those politicians and commentators clamoring for gun restrictions; take heed. The Second Amendment rights and First Amendment rights are equally protected. Any restrictions on the Second Amendment can be applied to the First.
Mental Health check for gun owners= mental health check for journalists
Registration for guns=registration for speech and press
Background check for gun owners= background check all media
Ban on Hi capacity magazine= ban on quantity of speech and press
Ban on Assault Weapons= ban on the scope of 24/7 coverage of massacres
and the list goes on.......
The only way to effective gun control is to repeal the Second Amendment. Any other measure can set a precedent for more Government control of our lives.
Texans are all in favor of universal gun possession and should not be surprised when events like this occur.
1
Trump offers prayers? Give me a break. If he was praying for anything it was that the shooter turned out to be a Muslim or at least an undocumented Mexican.
1
Trump plus Congress equals nothing, These mass murdering sprees have turned into competitions. To whom do we turn for help?
1
Isn't is about time for the NRA to roll out its tired and absurd "now's not the time to talk about gun control" nonsense.
What can we do? Our representatives refuse to represent us.
The photos of the crime scene should be shown to the public. Or leaked to the public.
Until the actual visuals reach America's gut and show what these weapons do to human flesh, the politicians will not support the majority of Americans who over and over have said that they do NOT want military weapons in the hands of any civilian with a credit card and a grudge.
The coroners should start with Congress and make them see them review the wounds of each mass killing in mandatory sessions.
1
Please stop printing the names of mass shooters. I know, other papers will print it, but NYT can lead the way in this movement by explaining the reason for holding back this information. Future mass shooters see all the press that past mass shooters (dead or alive) receive and it encourages them to commit mass murder for the attention, fame, notoriety, whatever. I saw a fairly recent mass shooter who lived (I won't name him) on the cover of People magazine yesterday. It was a "special edition" about notorious criminals. Maybe this shooter (who I won't name) is sitting in his cell, enjoying being on the cover of a magazine and having all of America speculate as to his motives. Do we really want to reward these psychopaths by making them martyrs or celebrities? I know I'm not the first one to have made this point.
9
I'm a Texan and I know where this will go: More guns. More death. You see, the Wild West never really left Texas and guns are a part of religion. This case is particularly painful for me. I was young, but remember it vividly when a disgruntled community member shot up a church in Daingerfield, Texas. Had my grandparents decided to go to Church that day, they probably would've been killed. People my Dad grew up with died that day. It was horrific, it took the community years to heal, and it changed nothing, except for making people want to buy more guns.
I myself own two guns, although I'm opposed to them and wish all guns could be outlawed. But I was mighty glad to have mine when someone started beating down my door one night at 1:00 AM. With my wife and children frightened to death, I remember positioning myself a few feet away, my 9mm semi-automatic pointed at the door, waiting for the moment the guy would break through, trying to decide if I shoot to kill, or shoot to wound, thinking shoot to wound, but sure I wouldn't take the chance. I shouted through the door that I was armed and fortunately the would-be thieves ran off.
The fact is, this is a bad world, and the gun problem is deep, deep, deep. Tens of millions of guns are already in the hands of all kinds of people. No place is immune from gun violence. No place. We can do much to change it, but it will take time and risk and understanding, not angry divisional rhetoric. We need to solve this.
11
These NRA zealots are like robots. Brainwashed and unable to think for themselves. They will never change their mantra and I don't know what it will take to change this country. One thing is certain --- it does not matter how many innocent people are gunned down so these cultists can have their lethal toys. It will take something besides the river of blood this country is drowning in to make it change. I have no idea what that might be.
I am not a Trump fan, but honestly, tragedy happens. The President (whoever he is) is bombarded with tragedy, (Bush, Obama, Trump, etc) and they are chronically having to make a statement about the tragic loss, etc. What can he really say? I believe that gun control is absolutely crucial, but how far did Obama get when 20 little kids at Sandy Hook were slaughtered? Zero! And I liked Obama! I actually agree with Trump that the mental health issue is as big a problem as gun control. But he isn't God, he can't stop all these things from happening. Neither could Obama. And he was a great president!
1
I had a terrible cold last week. To buy Sudafed, I had to show a Driver's License and sign a book. Why is it easier to buy a gun than to buy Sudafed?
3
Yesterday, if you watched coverage of the Texas church massacre on ABC World News Tonight, you might have noticed a sobbing middle-aged woman being comforted by another woman outside the site of the slaughter. And if you were really sharp-eyed, you might have noticed in that fleeting image that the crying woman was wearing this t-shirt.
I told my wife this morning that I’d wager most, if not all, of the survivors of that shooting and their family members strongly support what they view as their Second Amendment right to own the kind of mass killing machine the gunman used on them and their loved ones. (I’d wager most of the people attending that country music festival in Las Vegas still feel that way too—hence the CMA’s attempt last week to impose a gag rule on reporters re gun issues in advance of their big award show.)
Related to that, one neespaper’s headline this morning blared Texas Gov. Greg Abbott’s characterization of the massacre as “pure evil,” a metaphysical dismissal of the utility of any practical measures (i.e. gun control) to lessen the frequency and impact of these mass killings that have now been routine for many years in America. And that dismissal fits nicely with the religious faith of the good Christian people of the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, Texas—at least those still left alive to proudly (even literally) wear their Second Amendment rights on their sleeves.
I remember exactly where I was on the day of the Columbine massacre. I know exactly what I was doing when I first heard. My family, my colleagues and I discussed it for days. This morning, I walked into the office and yesterday's killings weren't even mentioned. How sad is that. how sad for this country.
2
Our country is crumbling. We are going backwards like Trump told us, but all the way to the wild west days. IF you have a problem, just shoot. Then, we get the Texas AG claiming everyone should take guns to church. If that makes sense, why can't people take guns to court or into the capital building or into banks? If it is not a gun problem, then why draw a line? Why can't citizens walk up to Trump/governors/congress people with a AR 15 rifle and tell them they think they are destroying our country?
Then, we have Trump saying it is a mental issue, while at the same time trying to cut spending on healthcare by billions. the same healthcare that pays for mental health issues.
1
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
The above is the portion of the second amendment that the NRA and these gun advocates can't seem to or don't want to understand. Thus, would anyone know:
What militia was the fellow in Texas was a part of, or the fellow in Las Vegas or the guy in Orange County Florida...you get the idea.
No more Jingoist language please, we should all be ashamed of what is going on.
As a study recently mentioned by the Times has shown, in this country 3 out of 4 fatal terrorist attacks are perpetrated by White Supremacists, against 1 out of 4 by Muslim extremists and 2% by leftist extremists.
Most terrorist attacks committed by White Supremacists use guns (except for Charlottesville, where a car was driven into a group of innocent bystanders).
There's a reason why, contrary to Muslim or leftist terrorism, we don't talk about White Supremacist "extremists": White Supremacy is ITSELF an extremist, radical ideology, contrary to Islam or leftist political philosophies.
As a consequence, White Supremacists committing a terror attack are almost always called "mentally unstable".
But that's precisely why FINALLY passing a bill that increases restrictions on selling guns to mentally ill Americans is the ONLY possible SERIOUS response to this kind of terrorism.
And it's not as if this is a partisan issue: 80% of the American people support it.
Today the GOP controls the House, the Senate and the White House. They should stop working for their wealthy donors alone, and finally start working for those who hired them in the first place: "we the people" ... !
1
ONE comment addressed the real issue: the anger required to trigger actions in such a human.
EVERYONE talks about gun control, and I believe in it more than ever and think the NRA and Congress are totally at fault. Strict constructionists of the our Constitution have NEVER reconciled the fact that modern military guns are somehow OK under the Second Amendment, while abortion rights, gay rights, etc., mustn't exist because they didn't in 1776.
FINALLY, Trump is the cause of all this anger, directly or indirectly. Directly because he's made it OK to humiliate, shame and attack (grab their p...) if people don't do, think or believe like he does. So do most of the idiots in the GOP, the root of the problem. Killing them with guns is just the byproduct of all this...
I would like to see an around the clock vigil with poster size pictures of all victims of gun violence in the last year maintain a permanent position directly across from the White House.
1
Another mass shooting?
Not to worry - it's just a Republican "thing" - "sad" "prayers" "too soon" blah blah blah. It seems that the Republican lawmakers feel that the more murders, the better. They refuse to do anything to stop it, therefore, they are encouraging it - apparently the more dead bodies, the better for Republicans and their NRA (gun manufacturers). Republicans are happy.
"This is a mental health problem at the highest level" a Donald Trump direct quote. How right he is, directly from the highest level.
2
Pathetic responses by Trump and the media. Several main stream media had on "experts" such as "former FBI" agents to make comments. One of these "experts" kept calling the killer "evil." Evil is a religious term and has no meaning in this context. My point, the media and Trump and other authorities who have power to solve this problem gives meaningless, "distracting" comments that ramble through the "prayers, god and evil" standardized tripe. Irrational nonsense. I'm starting to stay away from main stream media, CNN included of course. I suspect sometimes that the media are strongly influenced by the NRA, who love the use of the word "evil" for gun killers. Trump in Japan called on god about ten times in this "condolences" statement. A very bad one at that; inserted awkwardly in between laughter at the beginning of a presentation in Japan and his main speech to the Japanese audience. The Japanese are astounded at the mass murders in our country and must have thought Trump ill with his condolence speech -- tuck in awkwardly as describes. The weapons law of Japan begins by stating "No one shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords", and very few exceptions are allowed.
Mr point: Instead of all the nonsense noted above we need to use the human behavioral sciences and the law to control who has access to guns and why people have mental illnesses causing mass killings.
Let's get on with some serious control of this problem. Tighten up the gun laws and protect us.
1
We live in a country that has been at war my entire life. The horrendous violence we daily inflict upon people in the third world barely rates a mention in the press anymore, and if it does it is always legitimized. We are, after all, "the good guys", fighting against the ubiquitous evil enemy du jour. Millions may be killed, maimed and displaced, but the American killing machine grinds on 24/7. We are treated to periodic flyovers at mass sporting events by high tech weapons platforms to keep us properly awed at our might. However, this pervasive state sanctioned violence produces within the gun-saturated militaristic culture from which it emanates a psychological acceptance of murder on a massive scale as perfectly "normal". In the already mentally unhinged, a reflection of that "normal" is periodically acted out.
To quote Colonel Walter E. Kurtz: "The horror! The Horror!"
1
Who are we even?
How do we look at all this, again?
Too many guns? Or too much sickness that metastasizes beyond any control?
We create this. Then we allow it.
Thoughts and prayers?
Clearly, God has nothing to do with any of this. We bring it on ourselves in every way.
1
The article notes that Devin Patrick Kelley, formerly of the Air Force, had been court-martialed in 2012 on charges of assaulting his wife and child. He was sentenced to 12 months’ confinement and received a “bad conduct” discharge in 2014. After serving his time, a violent man was returned to society. His dishonorable discharge likely made him ineligible for V.A. health benefits, including treatment for his anger and other psychological issues. Eventually, he bought a gun, a Ruger semi-automatic rifle capable of inflicting tremendous harm. He proudly showed it off on Facebook. Kelley took that gun to the church his in-laws sometimes attended. They weren’t there, but as he began shooting from outside the building, dozens of other people, including children, were killed without mercy or concern.
Given his past conviction, Kelley could not legally buy the gun he used. Indeed, he was denied a gun permit in Texas, and to that extent the system worked. However Kelley still obtained a weapon that has only one function: to ensure mass casualties. It is time, once again, to say that weapons like the Ruger used in this killing, should not be available on the civilian market. We can’t stop all the gun violence in this country, but we at least make this type of mass killing harder to accomplish. It is the least we owe to the victims of Sulphur Springs, Las Vegas, San Bernadino, and countless other places.
When will the body count reach high enough for gun control reform? No military assault grade weapons should be made available for public purchase. Those already registered should be confiscated by local law enforcement. Their entire purpose is to kill large numbers of people as fast as possible. They have been used in most if not all recorded mass shootings to date.
Trump mentioned the killer's history of mental health issues yet he removed a previous Obama regulation that the Social Security administration provide information on those with mental health issues so that they would be unable to purchase guns. I know this is an infringement on privacy, but at least it kept irrational or mentally ill people with violent tendencies from being able to purchase lethal weapons. Our right to live should 'trump' the right to bear arms with no gun controls in place.
Again, America is grieving for all the innocent killed, and more families and survivors are devastated by grief and acute loss. There are at least 10 million military grade assault rifles out there and the last ban against them, as stated in this article, was for 10 years only, 1994-2004, and this Ruger AR 15 was on that list. How stupid was that to have legislation with a timeline? After 2004 everyone was on their own again as far as being a potential victim of a mass killing?
Resurrect the Military Assault Weapon Ban Act now, Congress, and save hundreds of future innocent lives.
2
You could be mentally ill or you could believe in an ideology that dehumanizes others to a point where murdering is the right, but the gun in you hand is just a means to an end. There should be stricter gun laws making it harder for the insane and ideologically deluded to get guns to use against others. But as we have seen recently there are others ways of carrying out ideological murder.
Until we face the real problem, dehumanizing belief systems, we will never eliminate this problem. The people worshipping in that church follow One who died for His enemies so He could save them. We need more people who believe in loving your enemies than people who hate so deeply that murder becomes a final solution.
I grew up in a very rough part of NYC, believe me. I can sense danger the way some Time's columnists can sense their soufflé is not cooking properly. I would walk down (almost) any street in the center of any major western city and not be concerned with terrorism. But...the thing that frightens me are these true absolute (apolitical) fruitcakes who know how to acquire military grade weapons and use them with terrifying expertise because their life isn't panning out as they wished.
So, yeah, I avoid malls, commercial multiplex theatres, and any public venues which have that sterile middle brow scent that seems to draw the attention of these NUTS and trigger their mania. I know many people who do the same. Living in fear? Maybe. But clearly we are a society whose members are going mad and where anyone can buy guns as easily as buying groceries. Last night I stumbled across some imbecilic fraud on C Span named Sebastian Gorka. I discovered he was Trump's foreign policy and security advisor until August. Clearly, the lunacy virus has infiltrated every office. No one is watching the gates. And I don't think Irish American generals crowding the oval office will save us.
3
Let's please not make this a story about how a citizen with a gun shot at a a gunman and thus, the moral of the story is we should all arm ourselves and go packing every time you step outside.
Let's please remember that before being shot at, the gunman first succeeded at killing and wounding dozens of children and parents and a preacher, leaving bodies on top of bodies.
You can arm yourself all you want but if your head is bowed in prayer or voice is raised in song, you are not going to be able to fend off semi-automatic bullets coming from behind at semi-automatic speed.
You can arm yourself all you want unless you are six and reciting lessons or playing with finger paints in class.
You can arm yourself all you want but if you're sitting in the dark in a movie theater with your sight fixed on the screen watching an exciting film, you are not going to see the gunman coming from behind and spewing bullets at a rate faster than your eye can see.
You can arm yourself all you want.
But if you haven't already been in one hundred prior gun fights, your instinct is to grab the one you love beside you, and pray.
1
Child: Mommy, we learned that America is the "Land of the Free". What does that mean?
Mother: It means we have a lot of freedoms, particularly with regard to what we can do against other people, against our enemies. Here are some examples:
We can lock up scary people, like black men.
We can bomb other countries if they get in our way.
We can lock up people in Cuba who scare us.
And best of all, we can buy all the guns we want in case our neighbors do stuff we don't like.
This is what it means to be free. God bless America.
What are 26 more lives against the political power of the NRA and the huge profits of the gun industry? Every year, at least 30,000 Americans die from gun violence. That's 10 9/11s EVERY year, year after year. But, no doubt, NOTHING will be done by Congress, or state legislatures. Can you imagine TEXAS doing anything about gun control? Yeah, right.
Do we know yet, how many of the congregation was armed? This needs to be added to the discussion of good guys with guns preventing bad guys with guns doing bad things.
just NUMB - this is what we choose for our country (someone walking into Sunday service, killing innocents, including children) in a failure to enact sensible gun laws - DON'T THINK THIS CAN'T HAPPEN TO YOU - WHO'S UP NEXT ! !
At what point does this begin to happen so often that it ceases to be news?
Utterly predictable Trump and Republicans:
White shooter:
"Too soon to talk about gun control"
"Guns are not the problem--mental health is"
"We need to pray"
Muslim, Black or Hispanic Shooter
"Give them the death penalty"
"Send them to Gitanamo"
"World Terrorism is the problem"
It is shameful that tin the face of tragedies of this size our Republican leaders are still pandering to racists, xenophobes and the NRA.
1
“It’s something we all say does not happen in small communities, although we found out today it does,” said Joe Tackitt, the sheriff.
I think we can safely say it happens everywhere and anywhere in this country and will continue to do so. But of course, as Trump has already said, it's too early to talk about gun control. We should wait until the next mass shooting and then put it off again, so sometime after the next (and the next) useless prayers, moments of silence, and candlelight vigils. It's the American way.
In the month of October, a national bullying prevention campaign is run in schools across our country. Students are encouraged to be “upstanders,” to face up to bullies. It seems we expect more of our kids than we do of our legislators. Against the bullying tactics of the NRA, lawmakers remain silent. Immune to impassioned pleas, these legislators become bystanders, unwilling to stand up for their vulnerable citizens.
1
Every congressman who is not actively working on sensible gun law IS actively supporting terrorism and is a criminal.
The US has the 31st highest rate of gun violence in the world. It is comparable to Jamaica, Iraq and Thailand, and it calls itself a developed country!!
1
Trump unintentionally got to the heart of why so much domestic terrorism occurs in our country like the Southerland Springs church shooting. "This is a mental health problem at the highest order" Trump said. At the highest levels our elected officials like Trump must be mental to work against legislative and regulatory ways to limit gun availability.
If the gunman had been islamic, hispanic, or black, Trump would already have been tweeting about it demanding that his family should be executed in retaliation. But since it was a white guy - just a lone individual with severe mental health problems. Nothing to see here.
1
Most scholars of Pre-Columbian civilization see human sacrifice as a part of the long cultural tradition of Mesoamerica.
Long thought to be a thing of the past, it seems that the United States has revived this tradition in its own culture. On a monthly basis, we slaughter 5 to 50 or more innocent people as a sacrifice to the gods of the gun manufacturing industry, then genuflect before their altars as we are led in prayer by the high priests and acolytes of the NRA for those duly sacrificed.
God help the victims of this atrocity ..... is my instinctive response to this although I have to say that I seen no signs of divine assistance anywhere. Divine retribution is more like what is happening in this country. Crazed people appear to abound here who can resolve their own problems by destroying the innocent and themselves in the process. And yes, there are many innocents and good people here. It is just unfathomable.
When are we going to take action and accept it's our responsibility as citizens to prevent another massacre like the shooting at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs in Texas? It’s been proven that for President Trump as well as the Republican Party receiving contributions from the gun manufacturing industry and the NRA weighs over human casualties.
When a person with mental illness is characterized with aggressive outbursts of anger and serious assault acts then, America is at war with its own. Doing nothing is the same as being guilty as charged.
A truly horrific event due to yet another act of domestic terrorism from a homegrown loony. How long do we have to tolerate such incidents due to lack of poor leadership and a proactive address of the real issues ? How can we continue to call ourselves a functional democracy when life is so arbitrarily defined for so many of our people ? How can we peg our faith in our leadership when it reacts only to inane comments via social noticeboards? How can we continue to go to the elections to put ballot people who are ignorant and pay lip service to enacting true social changes? The question is not "Why" these things happen but "How" can we stop them from happening one more time. I would urge the editorial board at NY Times to come up with a list of things that require change. Make it a sizeable list but one that can be actionable. One that can provide a blueprint to aspiring politicians. Make it your objective to drive people toward sensible engagement as opposed to delivering news. You have the power NY Times. Use it to scale the engagement and appropriate social behavior. Ask your readers for help. Engage them. Don't just report. You have a vastly educated audience with thousands of years of collective wisdom.
3
A society where you must carry a gun to feel safe is a failed society. That is what the NRA seeks: they want us all to carry guns. This is a marketing position of gun manufacturers. It is neither a moral nor sensible position. Since the Supreme Court has decided that the phrase “a well regulated militia” has no meaning, we need a constitutional amendment allowing the states to regulate guns as they see fit.
2
I am so glad our Brainiac leader (who is so much smarter than all of us put together) knew exactly what to say that would not rile the NRA. "It's not a gun thing"! I know all of the surviving family and friends are now perfectly satisfied with this explanation and will refrain from any more whining about "gun things". Of course, this will certainly be the last one of these slaughters now that our Golden Cow leader has said his profound words and looked concerned.
Remember when Trump signed the EO ending Obama’s restrictions on selling guns to people with severe mental illness? You can’t have it both ways America. Either pour resources into mental health or restrict gun sales.
The fact that we are even talking about this after Sandy Hook (and Columbine) galls me to no end. Total Idiocracy.
1
The terrorist-enabling organization that is the NRA speaks to the terrorist-enabling political party that is the GOP: do absolutely nothing so that our handlers can sell more assault rifles.
If the Dems had control of both houses, we know that an assault rifle ban would be on the table. But the GOP are to a person gutless wimps.
1
How many more gun mass murders does America have to endure before we realize too many assault weapons circulate in our society? Despite Trump and the NRA saying it's not about guns, assault weapons and bump stocks provide the means and opportunity for the horrible nightmare killing of innocent children, women, and men in our nation. Unfortunately, there will always be sick, deranged people who want to harm others. Let's stop allowing them access to the tools that facilitate that harm. People have a chance to outrun a knife wielding assailant, but bullets are a whole different matter.
1
As a matter of fact, for every death related to guns, there are approximately 5700 deaths by abortion. Can we talk about the real crisis yet ?
Hounestly when the shooting occured Trump should of been their instead of staying in Japan. He says there always by there side but hes not even close to Texas. He said lets change the world and make it a better place,Its not even close to great
Another mass shooting tragedy grnerates another wave of snguish, sorrow and rage while Trump and his ilk, generously subsidized by the NRA, deny that the US has a “gun situation.” Trump himself is evidence of a mental health problem at the very highest level. He and his sychophantic GOP enablers, with blood on their hands, must be voted out en masse.
1
I feel so sorry for these people, and for all the victims of this country's mass shootings. Can we have sensible gun control laws now, please?
To those who would foam at the mouth about this, it isn't about stepping on the Second Amendment rights of responsible, thoughtful gun owners who enjoy hunting or believe in handguns for home defense. It's about keeping military-style assault weapons out of the hands of everyone save the police and the military, in order to prevent lunatics like this latest one from walking into a church - or a movie theatre, or a WalMart, or a nightclub, or a school, or taking aim from on high at concertgoers - and mowing people down because they either have a ridiculous personal grievance, are known to be violent and abusive, like Devin Kelley, or are so mentally ill that their view of the world and everyone in it is totally warped.
We are one of the few nations where this hideousness happens on a regular basis. It needs to end. Innocent people are dying, lives are being destroyed, and empty "thoughts and prayers" promises no longer do the trick. Yes, Mr. President, it is "a guns situation" now, and it has been for a long time. Congress, when are the people of this country going to be more important than the gun industry and the money they can throw around? We all know Trump doesn't care, not when it comes right down to it. Do you?
1
Most scholars of Pre-Columbian civilization see human sacrifice as a part of the long cultural tradition of human sacrifice in Mesoamerica.
Long thought to be a thing of the past, it seems that the United States has revived this tradition in its own culture. On a monthly basis, we slaughter 5 to 50 or more innocent people as a sacrifice to the gods of the gun manufacturing industry, then genuflect before their altars as we are led in prayer by the high priests and acolytes of the NRA for those duly sacrificed.
2
The shooter shared a violent anger against women that was used, magnified and fomented by Trump, the Russians, and the alt.Right. It is coming home to roost with a stunning fatality.
The hatred that still exists against Hillary Clinton will vehemently deny any relationship to this shooting. They are first cousins and product of the same recessive inbreeding of intellectually starved prejudice, psychosis and fear.
The US obviously has a mental health issue and it needs to be addressed before more atrocities occur.
The mental state of our so called representatives, who do "Nothing" except offer condolences and prayer after each slaughter has drenched the ground with blood and tears, needs to be seriously evaluated for the blatant sickness it is.
Their repeated inhuman inaction means that, beside being obviously unfit to serve, they are criminals.
Mrs. Clinton pleaded and President Obama wept while imploring these republican representatives to put safety regulations in place. Instead, they were repeatedly subjected to attack ads as well as mocking, hateful disparagement by Trump, for trying to prevent evil like this from happening.
In obstructing sensible, safety regulations concerning gun ownership, their attackers are as guilty as the perpetrator himself. Just as mentally deranged.
1
What a sad commentary that while shootings like this will not have any momentum for rational gun control on military type weaponry used in these attacks, but have the opposite affect with greater gun sales of that same model. We can now expect the model of the ruger weapon, if that is in fact the weapon used the attack, to go up in sales.
If the GOP did nothing after Sandy Hook, NOTHING will change now.
Vote people vote! Let's get these folks out of office!!!
1
So, should we build a wall around Texas?
Should we forbid white people immigrating from Texas?
Muslim terrorism not a big problem here.
Homeland terrorism is.
GOP leadership and NRA management tolerates and looks away from others mass-killing us with military-type guns like the Russian Government tolerates and looks away from Putin murdering opposition members.
There, incongruously set forth is our civically-sacred Bill of Rights, is an amendment that drips yearly with the blood of 50,000 citizens, armed in a government sanctioned internal war with one another. And in our pathetic paralysis of solutions, all we offer up are hackneyed "prayers" for the slain and their grieving families. A peculiarly American immorality on full display following each and every slaughter of the innocents.
How about the Texas guy who pursued the shooter and shot him? Who is he? A relative? A co-conspirator? Something smells funny here, doesn't it?
Trump claims it is a mental illness problem not gun control. ...then perhaps the mentally ill should be vetted before obtaining guns. ..much less assault weapons. He certainly took a much different stance when a "mentally ill" Islamic person was radicalized and committed a deadly atrocity
Here's a thought: why don't the Christians try praying BEFORE the next mass shooting?
After all, if God is "pro-life," wouldn't He be receptive to such entreaties?
2
These horrors are now nearly as frequent as rainy days, and the comments to the news stories are of course just as predictable. Among the many (including mine) saying that this country needs to come to its senses and enact serious gun control, there are always a few commenters saying that people who intend to commit mass murder will get guns regardless of the law. They have a point. As long as guns are ubiquitous and unsecured that will be true. From the Columbine shooters on, angry or deranged people, even children and people judged mentally ill or those under restraining orders have had little difficulty buying guns or just picking them up where they are, in effect, just left lying around. Laws can help, but there will be no effective gun control without a nationwide change in attitude. Traffic control works (mostly) because people voluntarily obey traffic lights and Stop signs, but when it was suggested that the Columbine shooters were able to collect several guns easily because of the casual attitude toward them in the community, adults there reacted with defensive fury. People think that any -- any -- restrictions are the beginning of a plot by the Libs to "take all our guns away." Until that changes, nationwide, events like this one will be as regular as the tides.
You can say all you want about your 2nd amendment rights, but I don't have to live in a war zone created by crazy people armed with butcher tools. This is becoming my single issue for voting.
Remember that cub scout that was kicked out for asking a politician "why on Earth would someone who beats his wife be able to own a gun?" Ditto. Sure 2nd amendment and all, but really - does everyone who has the cash really have the right to walk into a gun shop and purchase military style weapons? We as a nation are beginning to reap what we sow, and there are millions of these semi-automatic "seeds" out there. Is this really all just about corporate profits? Probably.
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I would have devoted more accolades to the Hero neighbor that shot the assailant.
Is it time to talk about "it" now?
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The United States remains unmoved and continues its deadly love affair with assault weapons. Our Congress is still doing nothing and by its inaction is sanctioning a blood bath of innocents. As a people we have abandoned common sense. As a country we have no leadership.
It is frightening and it is sad. We can't even agree on how to define the problem. No one wants to take guns away. Automatic weapons have no place among civilians.
These military-styled weapons were designed with military use in mind. Why does anyone need a repeating, automatic weapon? That old argument of 'it is my right" continues to pale at an alarming rate and tremendous price.
We have a BIG gun problem. We have a HUGE mental health crisis in this country. Yet our president defends gun ownership and it is politics as usual. The mental health crisis is not even mentioned for the most part.
I am angry and disgusted by the slow, repetitious sacrifice we continue to make through inaction. It is time to send a strong message that now is the time for gun control. No more delays.
We must stop the sale of and prohibit ownership of automatic weapons by civilians. That would be a good start.
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It's time to use part of the Defense Department budget to start a guns buy-back program. At the right price a lot of guns will be taken out of circulation and that will help.
Imagine yourself, as "the good guy with a gun". Suddenly chaos erupts around you. Even as you reach for your gun you hardly know where the source of chaos is as you are surrounded by innocents. You may as likely kill any one of them and, end up in a lawsuit as well. You won't accomplish anything; you are only an excuse for not doing anything serious about gun control.
When enough Americans become too fearful to continue shopping in our Malls something will finally be done to control access to guns.
Let us not forget today too all the survivors of all the previous massacres as their pain is brought back so intensely all over again each time another massacre happens.
This is indeed a mental health problem, as Trump says. Trump and the GOP congress members have severe mental health issues, and should withdraw from any position requiring decision making that affects the nation. What a joke...
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Trump called this latest mass shooting a "mental health problem." It is likely the first time he has been 100% correct. The health problem, however, resides squarely with him and his party for never discussing how to at least try to eradicate this great American scourge.
How about praying that our political leaders develop an ounce of courage and honesty to sensibly address the gun control problem (or rather the gun out of control problem) in this country. Politicians’ prayers for the dead are really sickening when the politicians are really secretly praying that they themselves stay on the politically expedient side of the NRA.
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The NRA and its most die-hard adherents have placed a target on the back of every politician in the US. As the NRA threatens the political lives of the politicians, we citizens are the sheep being led to the slaughter. What is so hard to fathom is that in a country where there is so much good, we cannot find a way to place our lives above the freedom to own a gun. And with each mass murder we become more exhausted and feel more defeated to the point where we are numb and are no longer trying to enact change.
Until we stand up and fight for change, the bullies at the NRA will continue to hold our President, our Congress and us as hostages.
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How can we, as Americans, focus on the needs of our country along with our individual needs? And which should come first? If we remain divided business and lobbyist will continue to lead our country.
We will wage wars to deny other countries access to weapons of mass destruction yet we permit the sale of weapons of mass destruction in our communities. Automatic assault and semi automatic guns are not used for hunting.
Surely we Most of us could agree that hunting is a healthy and respectful sport and that huntung weapons should not be banned. But, what about automatic and semi automatic assault weapons? Do we want to arm ourselves or do we want to ban the sale of non hunting type guns? What do we value more our individual needs or the needs of our country? Are we patriotic Americans or victims of the massive lobbying arm of the NRA? Who is the NRA lobbying for - individual gun owners or the weapons industry?
We all need to get on the phone, call our elected senators, congressmen and governors, and DEMAND that they stop being a road block to all of us living safely without fear of being shot. They need to pass laws or whatever needs to be done to stop this. We need to hound and badger Congress until they do all that is necessary to stop the murder of innocent people.
I am tired of Trump and other politicians who do nothing after a mass killing but offer sympathy and condolences. Does that help? Absolutely not. Only gets them off the hook and makes them feel they've done their 'duty'. Not by a long shot.
Remember that this slaughter in TX town happened the same week many people in New York City were killed on a bike path. And before that, Las Vegas and other US cities.
I just read about the Background Check Expansion Act sponsored by several Senators, i.e. Chris Murphy, Cory Booker, Jeff Markley and others. This has not passed but should be looked at seriously. I believe thorough background checks are sensible and needed. Now more than ever!!
My point is WE need to tell our elected officials we are more than sick of this happening in our country and they have to start making us safer. Right now most of them are useless on this topic. Get your reps office phone number on your computer, call area code 202 for Washington, D.C. or get their state office phone from information. DO IT. PLEASE FOR EVERYONE, YOURSELF AND OUR COUNTRY.
Not a guns "guns situation?" Then what killed and injured these people?
This type of massacre does not take place in large "liberal" cities that have strict gun regulations.
Indisputably Devin Patrick Kelley, court marshaled, dishonorably discharged, wife and child batterer should not have been allowed to legally purchase a semi-automatic weapon.
This is all predictable hysteria from a Television viewing public in which the crime of one man drives the entire nation to chaos and division. America was once the "Land of the free and the brave". Now it's the land of chickens.
Not just the gun lobby but the gun industry carries much of the blame for this tragedy. The active promotion of sophisticated weapons by means of advertising, exhibitions and glossy brochures engenders a culture of shiny toys that need to be used. Combine this with a culture of promote and acquire and you have a formula of, sooner or later, a desire to make use of these prized acquisitions. A bad day or just a momentary slip from responsibility and you have the makings of yet another dreadful tragedy like this.
How many more times? When will our collective love of guns and the inbred fear that we need them to prevent (ironically) the violence of a pie-in-the-sky hostile takeover, be over with? Today we have bombs, gases, chemicals and bio-warfare. Guns are really nothing but a domestic violence issue at this point, used by thugs and beer fueled angry anti-government people. We need to seriously have an open talk about the virtues and pitfalls of placing weapons in the hands of everyone. This nation has MORE THAN IT SHARE of mental cases who are just one odd stare away from losing it.
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Trump ordered the flags at the White House and Federal buildings to be flown at half-mast until Thursday. How about we-the-people fly our flags upside down until we manage to vote all the NRA-paid politicians out of office?
In the face of this terrible tragedy, Trump has assigned the trigger for such a horrific crime as a "mental health" issue. I hope he, as well as leaders of all communities and in all areas of social and political life, globally, will look at all mass killings of innocents as a 'mental health" issue. For if you can not express your feelings in non-violent ways, without harming others, it is a 'mental health ' issue worthy of analysis, understanding, and holistic solutions.Otherwise, the innocent will continue to be the victims of such insanity. One day, the bells may very well toll for us.
Jerks with a violent past-history are not necessarily mentally-ill. When did GOP leaders and the NRA get their Doctrine of Psychiatry; while spinning an NRA donated rifle-barrel in a circle of them and their politics? They and the NRA don’t want to ‘offend’ the jerks with a buying a gun-fetish; just the nation’s mentally ill?
Somehow we have to get to the root cause here. Getting better controls of the weapons is an important piece...but it says nothing about why we have individuals in this country that somehow come to think it's a good idea to murder people they don't know. We have to figure out how to identify individuals with sociopathic tendencies early in life and ensure there are life-long therapies/treatments available to help them cope and integrate with an affliction not of their own doing. And this cannot be a "fire and forget" philosophy. Families and communities need to take responsibility for these individuals and hold them accountable over their entire lives. Can't be "someone else's problem". This is one reason you don't see these sorts of crimes in Japan...the families don't let it happen. But that's not our culture. As American's we're individuals and we do what we want. Sometimes that means we barge into churches and kill people for sport.
Democrats, as always, want to focus on the gun. I suppose that’s easier and more comforting than coming up with a solution for the raw evil that compelled the murderer to do what he did.
Fade in. The hatred volume is turned way up in the USA right now, with more newly minted culture warriors snapping every week. Cue the progressive know-it-alls with their gun lectures. Cue the President's poorly chosen words. Cue the media hysteria and promotion of "domestic military-style assault weapon terrorism." Cue the copy-cats looking for their moment on the front page. Cue more weekly murders of hundreds with handguns in every major urban area. Cue the pointless moaning and wailing about gun laws, light sentences, stop and frisk, and inequality. Cue my moniker. Fade out.
We're preaching to the choir here. All of you who believe in gun safety laws need to call your representatives in Congress and demand change. Nothing will get done unless we put pressure on the politicians whose main concern seems to be reelection.
Arming everyone to the teeth is not the right answer. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
An AR15 assault rifles should be banned. For what reason do folks need a weapon that is designed to kill as many people as possible? Time for common sense gun control.
Just an idea: And perhaps every venue that has over a certain amount of people should either have an armed guard during services or another type of volunteer type of protection (off duty officers who attend services etc.)
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What will it take for America to act on gun control?
Sandy Hook was not enough, Vegas was not enough, this will no doubt not be enough.
Common sense gun control evidently has no place in America. The rest of the world looks on aghast at the insanity of it all.
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Twenty-six Americans dead. What we know.
1) ISIS's hands are clean.
2) No one crossed the border illegally to do it.
3) The NRA's mission ensured that the shooter had what he needed.
4) Politicians send their prayers to the dead and wounded. Again.
Conclusion: No one kills Americans better than Americans. And a society that reacts to these shootings with `ho-hum, pass the clicker,' is very, very sick.
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Once again, our useless president has failed to call the shooter a "Domestic Terrorist" or just a "Terrorist," choosing to speak indisputably that the shooter is mentally ill ("confirmed" by the Texas Governor, who is also using religion to overlook the fact that another ordinary citizen had an AK-15 in his possession). Of course, when the horrible NYC truck incident took place, the President declared that the driver, an Uzbekistani citizen, was an "animal" and a "terrorist." Folks, it is ALL terrorism, and should be labeled accordingly. And, again, the President declared that it is too early to discuss gun control. After the 15-minute news cycle ends, it will then be too late to talk about gun control. I think we can all agree that we are sick of these incidents and the lack of effort being made to address the issue, by Congress, and by State legislatures. Most polls (which the President, for one, chooses to ignore, unless they favor him) show an overwhelming support for changes to be made to address the gun problem. How many more of these disasters must we suffer through before something is done?
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The "mentally ill" and "deranged individual" in this picture is trump and all tos who feel that guns are the answer. The republicans and the NRA has whipped up a frenzy of fear which only serves to increase the profits of the gun manufacturers. While my condolences go out to all of the individuals who have been hurt, Texas is reaping what it has sown. When will its citizens wake up?
How many more of these tragedies will we endure with a tone-deaf Congress and president who offer sympathy after the fact. In his supreme ignorance, Trump can only say it's a mental health problem while he continues to pander to the NRA.
Our "representatives" in government are directly responsible for the mass murders caused by gun violence. No other civilized country suffers such carnage from guns. Until rational, reasonable laws are passed and crazies cannot hide behind an antiquated Second Amendment that has been misinterpreted to mean unrestricted gun ownership, expect the carnage to continue.
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And one of the most pathetic parts of this (and past shootings) is that, when they heard that a group of people were slaughtered somewhere in the US . . . AGAIN . . . far too many people speculated about (or hoped over) the racial and political makeup of the shooter's personal profile.
Okay, popular conservative Republicans in no danger of defeat at the polls, which one of you is going to call out the Emperor NRA's newest clothes (cut from the same tattered old pattern)?
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Only no gun rule will save this nation from terrorists such as this man. And please no excuse that someone can kill with any weapon. Guns and machine guns give you no chance.
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The article refers to the attacker at Ft. Hood as Maj. Hasan. He may have been a major at the time, but I'm pretty sure he was reduced to PVT E-1 and stripped of all military benefits at his court martial.
This a very, very, senseless, tragic, and needless event. But it is not one that should lead to restricting the purchase and ownership of guns. Moreover, President Trump has nothing to do with it. Nothing, nothing at all. This problem has been going well before he became the President of the United States. It was carried out by an outlaw, a misfit of sorts, who could not behave properly in normal society. Also remember had it not been for the patriots who owned guns in the 1770s, we would still be British subjects. The right to bear arms is a hallmark of our freedom as Americans. It is one aspect of American society that separates us from the rest of world. Thank you.
this was gun problem. The mental health problem with the highest order is with Donald Trump. As long as guns are available to mentally unstable people, the killing will continue. this is not the issue of the second amendment, it is the public safety issue that cannot be fought with more guns.
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According to the news last night, this was the worst mass shooting in a place of worship in American history. Way to go NRA! Another record! All your lobbying and politician buying is paying off! Wayne LaPierre must be so proud. All his efforts are paying off. Now if he can only get a law passed to require all church attendees to carry guns...
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Unless and until we, as a nation, accept the obvious concept that automatic and semi-automatic assault weapons do not belong in the hands of civilians, we will continue to witness tragedies like this one. I am sickened to hear Texas officials argue that the solution to the problem is to arm everyone. Imagine! Guns in a church! What would Jesus do? This is crazy!
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It’s time once again to hold candle light vigils, to weep for the victims, to shake our heads and wonder at the immensity of this tragedy.
It’s time to once again to praise a community bravely coming together.
It’s time once again to ask again what would possess a man to kill so many innocent victims.
It’s time once again to wonder if the man was a terrorist, implying that he came from outside the U.S, or was influenced by forces inimical to American values.
It’s time once again to thank our lucky stars that a man with a gun was present and may have emerged as a hero.
It’s time once again to celebrate heroes and the indomitable resilience of Americans.
It’s time once again to wonder: if only the parishioners attending the service, including the many children, had been carrying guns, the carnage would have been reduced.
It’s time once again to examine everything as a potential culprit – mental illness, fate, the unfathomable ways of God, terrorism, overly strict gun laws – everything except ourselves. Because we as an exceptional nation are immune from culpability, the evil MUST lie elsewhere.
It’s time once again to do NOTHING, except to complete the cycle and then wait for the next time, and then, repeat all of the above.
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The gunman didn't die. He was shot and chased by the good civilians with guns. Not law enforcement. But civilians taking action to stop a greater tragedy.
It is amazing that the NYT can not even acknowledge that.
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So this shooting has been declared by the investigator in chief to be about mental illness and not guns. However an AR-15 was used by the shooter after legally obtaining it. Here in Georgia a mentally ill person can buy an AR at a gun show with no background check. Or they can pass a background check and buy an AR legally if no court commitment for five years. But the gun is not the issue?
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Nothing will change unless folks like those in that church demand a change. Since approx. 90% want stricter gun laws, every election is an opportunity.
The Second Amendment has to be abolished. While it exists the legislature and the politicians will never interpreted it in any reasonable way and will continue to excuse the crazies who purchase dozens of weapons of all types. Do you want a rifle for hunting? A pistol because you live in the boonies and want to protect your family? Do you like target shooting? I don’t have any problem with any of that, but no, you shouldn’t be allowed to own 30 weapons or a machine gun just because you have the $30,000 to buy it. Of course they don’t see it that way in Texas, so they’ll just have to muddle through with “thoughts and prayers”.
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The NRA's Republican-abetted war on the people of American has just claimed twenty-six more civilian casualties.
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Rural evangelicals and the NRA are attached at the hip. Had you taken a poll on Saturday this congregation would likely have overwhelmingly dismissed a proposed ban on assault weapons and large capacity magazines as liberal overreach. Unfortunately, perhaps not so much on Monday.
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A memo to this White House:
Re: Tone at the top.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness;
only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate;
only love can do that.
Hate multiplies hate,
violence multiplies violence,
and toughness multiplies toughness
in a descending spiral of destruction.... "
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Strength To Love, 1963
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The president says that the issue is about mental health and not guns while his budgeting decisions gut resources for mental health care. The president, the NRA and their congressional flunkies are as fond of using mental health as deflection from the real issue as they are of ignoring anything about what they claim the real issue is.
Meanwhile, the country remains immobilized in the face of its own self-inflicted carnage while our leaders prattle on about the danger of prematurely politicizing an issue that is literally murdering us in droves.
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Another tragic day in America, almost every day is like this, 377 mass shootings this year , nearly 10000 people murdered by guns this year.
We live in constant fear , where next a sporting event, cinema, airport, school bus.
It is criminal our Congress accepts this as the norm, ignoring every other civilized country has very few deaths by gun. Japan where Trump is now has had 6 deaths , tragic but insignificant compared to us.
We do not only need to debate it we need to act.
We can not afford to have tyranny by guns .
These days the only things flying faster than the bullets are the thoughts and prayers of those feckless politicians who are deep in the pockets of the NRA.
Even prayers require action. Can you get a job from prayers alone? No. You still have to take apply for the job, interview, etc. so prayers will not fix this. Action, backed by prayers could.
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You would think we would want the White House to be the safest place on earth. So we would want everyone to have guns there, because more guns equals more safety. Why are there metal detectors at the doors? Why aren't visitors encouraged to have guns when they visit? Why aren't those without guns given guns at the door?
When several individuals out of 320,000,000 Americans goes berserk, we can always count on many hysterical people trying to deny freedom to the responsible 320,000,000 Americans.
After the Las Vegas mass shooting, I recommended that we immediately commence intercessory prayers for the inevitable next victims of the next US mass shooting, which was sure to come in a month or two. Since praying for these victims is the only thing our political leaders ever recommend, I reasoned that an early start to prayer might move the next victims to heaven faster after they died. (I did note that all of our political leaders did recommend praying yesterday afternoon.j
In addition to praying, perhaps our political leaders will also recommend not congregating anywhere as a good solution to the mass shooting problem. Since the 2d amendment is clearly the most important one, maybe we should consider giving up our right of assembly instead.
By all means, now is the time to further expand open carry laws. This is the result. Thank you gun advocates everywhere.
What might actually work to stem the tide of the slaughter of innocents? Repeal the 2nd Amendment (or restore its original intent) and take away all of the guns. Otherwise, the toll will continue. No one--especially politicians--want to talk about this truth.
The comments speak to the tragedy this country faces, not only with this recent carnage at a little church in small-town USA, but to the regularity of these events. It is an outrage, but there are real things to address from not only the reality of the availability of the type of guns Kelly and others prefer in their choice of killing innocents, but the shooters. Mental illness is not only the result as exemplified by one shooter--from the Newtown poor young man allowed to be armed and left alone in his room for hours--to the Las Vegas adult with his isolation by choice and his rage turned loose--to the others from Columbine to...whatever tomorrow brings. Small towns do not offer protection from isolated and mentally ill people and there are turning points in these individuals' lives that could have been changed. I'm not a Pollyanna nor do I offer prayers, but social connectivitiy must be added to our society. Doesn't it seem odd that in spite of Facebook, Twitter, tv, Iphones, music everywhere, some are in effect, these angry people fester somewhere in their anger. Our power grid for this is down as the electric grid in Puerto Rico is down. We don't know how to fix it. It will cost a lot. It will take a great deal of ingenuity and empathy and perhaps more.
The country is in deep trouble. The title of this article might just as well be - Shooting Of The Day. Face it, nothing is being done nor will it be done to stop this, by a complicit simpering GOP fully funded by the people that support infinite guns in the hands of anything that breathes.
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America is as sick as ever....
One advice: Look at the numbers of dead after gun shootings here in europe. Maybe you will find an accordance between strict gun laws and the number of victims.
Considering that during the campaign Trump showed himself walking hand in hand with the head of the repugnant NRA and now he, and his 2nd fiddler, offer only prayers attest to his complicity with the Blood Industry. The Con Man Caucus in Congress will also do nothing, as they benefit from the generous contributions of the industry of death and sorrow.
Will we see any action in congress? of course not, as long as GOPers and their accomplices in the Blood Industry are in control
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Texas governor was quick to haul out the generic "this is a mental health issue". Yet every Republican have been silent on even that. They've been pretty quiet about the NRA drafted law from years ago that barred mental health professionals from asking about a patient's access to firearms, or even reporting a potential weapons threat to the police. Speaker Paul "Thoughts and Prayers" Ryan doesn't mention the cuts in mental health coverage, including to veterans suffering from PTSD. Congress and Trump continually throw in free passes for insurance companies to deny and/or make it more difficult to seek psychiatric care.
The NRA wants guns in churches and schools, I'm pretty sure we'll see that bill reintroduced again by Republicans. They say daylight is the best disinfectant, sadly in the United States no matter how much day we shine the corruption remains.
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I have two thoughts...there are so many of these shootings they now have to be described with a qualifier...the biggest mass shooting in a theater, at a concert, at a high school, at a kindergarten, at a military base, etc. Second thought is...what is the tipping point before we as a country commit ourselves to work together for meaningful changes to our gun laws?
Blah, blah, blah, thoughts and prayers, blah, blah, mental health, blah, blah. These are the people who cling to their guns and religion and funny see what happens. I no longer sympathize with any victims. You're no longer innocent if you support unfettered access to weapons of any kind. You're complicit. The enemy is us and as a society we are no longer capable of acting responsibly, the only reasonable response is to start taking away privileges. The 2nd Amendment only provided for a right to carry arms in the context of a well regulated militia. As currently interpreted is not a right but a privilege. Let's move away from the platitudes and cliches and start collecting those weapons.
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Once again, President Cinderblock throws red meat to his gun-lusting supporters.
Register. Vote. 2018. There's no alternative. Absolutely none. We're at the mercy of these monsters 'til then.
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Somehow I don't see Trump, Abbot, Cruz and politicians who are under the NRA’s steely control actually praying for anything. I think they put all their energy into keeping the status quo on guns and getting re-elected with the help of the NRA. As far as thoughts and prayers go, I think it's much too late for the victims of all of these recent, continuing mass gun murders. If there is indeed a God, I’m sure he or she is hoping that, since we were given free will, Americans elect intelligent, honest representatives who put the American people’s safety first and are wise enough to realize that what is needed is extreme vetting, not just for immigrants, but for anyone who want to own a gun.
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I hate guns and find our inability to confront what is happening a tragedy on a par with the what has actually happened. This stuff does not happen in civilized countries like it does here. That said...
As horrible and preventable as Sutherland is I would remind everyone that every single day including yesterday 175 people die from opioid overdose.
That is more deaths than Sutherland, Las Vegas, AME Charleston, Sandy Hook Elementary, Fort Hood, Killeen and UT Austin massacres combined every single day.
According to the CDC we are on pace to pass 70,000 drug opioid overdose deaths this year...70,000. That's greater than all the soldiers and personnel we lost in Vietnam and Iraq combined.
At what point does the use of the word "crisis" lose its meaning?
My prayers are with those who died in this senseless act. The killer is called mentally disturbed due to his color and religion and responsible for his act. However in a similar situation a person of different color and religion would be labelled a terrorist and his entire religion held responsible. Why?
Why is this front page news? It's dog bites man. I have no compassion for anybody who chooses to live or raise children in a state where guns are easier to get than copies of Hustler.
And I want to hurl every time I hear or read someone say the word prayer. That's about as effective as witch burning. I assume they have at least stopped doing that in Texas.
It's terrorism. Terrorism is push back from losers in a winner take all society.
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Actions speak louder than words. The leadership in this country will continue to choose guns over people because they are prostitutes to the NRA. There are 300 million guns in this country. Schools and churches have become shooting galleries.
The "more guns are the solution" approach hasn't worked. Maybe it is time to try something different. Maybe it is time to back away from the precipice. The Republican party has become a cult of murder, and people just accept it like it is a normal way to act. Despicable.
We have a divisive president who likes to rile up emotions and we have a Republican leadership in the palm of the NRA. What do you expect? It's time Americans start getting educated on issues and the FACTS about guns and vote out the politicians (on both sides) who decide policy based on campaign contributions and fail to show leadership. Otherwise, people need to stop crying and complaining about gun deaths. I'm currently living in Canada right now - so much saner up here on this issue. Get the facts.
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These shootings are symptom of a society gone rogue. These are the consequences of thirty years of economic and political policies that have stripped wealth away from the working and middle class to the elite class. People like Noam Chomsky, Chris Hedges and Bernie Sanders and others have been warning us about this for decades, but the establishment media has ignored it and fans the flames of despair and demagoguery by not reporting on what is really happening. Public schools have been dumbed down and stripped down. So the elites send their kids to private schools.
Elites can deduct the cost of college tuition, which has skyrocketed the past 20 years so that middle class students have to take out loans with debilitating payments. The finance, insurance, medical, dental, and pharmaceutical industrial complexes have us by the throat. 90% of the politicians are sold out to their bid money donors. For all the money we spend on defense, so called national security, foreign aid (esp to Israel) we are not at all safer, but definitely more stressed and frankly, crazier. So of us are struggling to raise families and live basic lives. Simply asking for prayers and citing the word evil does absolutely nothing. We are a sick country.
Yes Gun Laws need to be looked at, but I am concerned about mental health. We have wars going on, (PSTD), an opioid epidemic, wages stagnation, and I can go on on. Prayers and thoughts, can't heal a broken, stress out, traumatized mind. Everytime, we have a shooting, I think about the families involved and hope they are going to get help immediately. We need to encourage our family and community to bring therapy to the forefront. This day forward, if I feel anyone in community needs to talk, I am going encourage it and not make mental health a thing to be shamed about.
Amazing how every community in the U.S. has virtually instant access to sex offender lists - yet we cannot have a list of convicted criminals who have lost their gun rights by law that works. Photos, names, aliases, addresses instantly available to gun sellers. Expecting a criminal to be honest on paper is ridiculous. Our tolerance of a broken background check system is ridiculous. And the rationalization of these gun crimes by the pro-gun faction is ridiculous.
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I have long thought that a key to responsible gun purchases was background checks. That faith has been shaken.
Apparently, after serving a year in prison - I guess military prison - this guy who assaulted his wife and child severely enough to warrant that imprisonment, was able to "legally" purchase an assault rifle - a weapon of mass destruction.
CNN is reporting that when he filled out his application, he denied having any criminal record. Do they not search military records as well as civilian?
Requiring background checks is toothless unless there is a will in the culture of guns, the ones charged with doing the checks, to keep people like this man from owning guns.
The obsession with 2nd Amendment "rights" - with gun people fighting any restrictions - even to the mentally ill - has overshadowed the inalienable rights of the majority of the people to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
That must end. We must face the facts.
Guns - and the proliferation of them - are not making us safer - they are slaughtering us.
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"He died shortly after the attack"?! That reads as if he passed away from a heart attack or a stroke or an unendurable sense of guilt and suddenly understanding the horror he had just created. He was killed by the police as he tried to runaway from the heinous crime he had just committed. Period.
1
Strictly speaking, Baptists aren't parishoners--they're 'congregants'.
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Trump called the shooting a “mental health problem at the highest level” and not “a guns situation,”
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Trump is a mental health problem at the highest level.
How is this not a "guns situation" (whatever that means)? Did the guy kill 26 people with a knife? A water pistol?
That the NRA has convinced the president, and millions of Americans, that when a shooting happens guns are not involved is one of of the greatest cons in the history of this country. The mental dysfunction that has to occur to reach this conclusion is mind boggling.
1
Mr Trump says this was a "mental health problem at the highest level" but not "a guns situation". However, although severely deranged people are found everywhere in the world, it takes the Second Amendment to facilitate their access to military-style rifles.
There are 250 million Americans who don't own a gun. 2 million who own 100 million guns. What did the founding fathers intend to check control of a position by a few powerful and well armed elites? Wrapping themselves in the constitution and paying a sizable chunk of change to the NRA, the armed commandos of the country have extorted and swayed half the political structure even though the electorate favors reasonable gun control.
The problem is not guns or TRUMP or Republicans in general, but campaign finance. So long as special interest dollars are the lifeblood of reelection, then we are all on our own in the face of an uncaring, self centered, unresponsive political system. Exclusively public funding of all election campaigns is the beginning of a reasonable solution. Good luck with that revolution. The opposition is armed and well funded by the rich who have built this political system. It doesn't belong to the people, it belongs to those who bought it.
As a Texan who grew up in a small town very much like Sutherland Springs, I’m horrified - but not particularly surprised. When guns are as readily and cheaply available as they are in Texas, bad people are bound to get ahold of them. Even the quiet rural places where you feel safe and know everybody in the community are not immune. There’s always a chance some crazy person will show up and pointlessly end the lives of those you love. I don’t know what the solution is. All I know is that nothing anyone has tried so far is working. The pro-gun folks will no doubt point to the neighbors who fired back and chased off the attacker as a clear indicator that arming everyone is the solution, but they’re wrong. It didn’t stop this animal killing 26 people; it just pointlessly endangered yet more lives. The gun-law folks will point out that if guns were better regulated, maybe he wouldn’t have obtained one. Well, maybe in a perfect world, but in this one they’re wrong. There are just too many guns in America to regulated and control the possession of every one - and millions are owned illegally.
Maybe there is no one solution. Maybe we need to address every aspect of the problem, from the root causes (insanity, lack of opportunity, indoctrination), to regulation (ban those on terror watch lists, no fly lists, mental health lists, etc), to arming those responsible enough to use guns appropriately (free, extensive self-defense training prior to gun purchase & follow up training after).
Anyone that ever served in the military knows that about 10% of the enlisted ranks are people that are poorly suited for service. Classically, they are belligerent types with a chip on their shoulder and with a unhappy personality. Then, they are taught basically how to shoot-people, and then they simply kick them out of the service without any warning to civil society. Why the idea of shooting up congregations is appealing is beyond understanding but our society guarantees their right to a weapon of substantial destruction. There are no crazy person registry like the public identity of child and sex offenders. Maybe the number of crazy people is simply too numerous to have on file.
Banning guns won't stop this behavior any more than placing flowers and candles at the scene will make the victims' families feel better. We need to stop the trite, robotic responses to these tragedies and attack the problem at it's root: our society, which glorifies violence and allows anti-social behavior to continue unchecked and unreported. Punching out a neighbor over a parking space is part of a continuum that ends up in a mass killing.
Yes, and all of this so that fellow citizens can maintain their ability to rise up in insurrection against the sovereign government of the United States. When you drill any second amendment zealot, that is always the answer. They want their military style arms to assure that they can violently respond to anything they see as oversight by the government. They want to be sure they can preserve their 'freedom.'
Freedom for what? In the meantime, the rest of us have lost a great deal of freedom. We can't shop, go to movies, concerts, school, bars or even churches without knowing that some nut with a weapon of war may open fire and kill us, our friends, our family.
Way to go gun nuts. Way to go. I feel so much more free and safe now....
26 innocent people slaughtered in how many minutes? And the first thing out of Trump's blustering mouth is that "it is not a gun problem"?
a ruger military style rifle? why are the firearms never identified beyond the vague description? some of us would like to know.
when is one these horrors going to be the tipping point? we'll never be able to get all the guns back but further dissemination has got to be rigidly controlled and the nra can go jump.
on the evening news last night a man who was waiting for the names to be called said, "we're going to know every one of them."
this is just intolerable. i'm so sorry for the friends, relatives, and the whole community
No prayers or anything from me. Texas residents have the laws they want.
If this most recent tragedy, given what has gone before for far too long, does not cause the GOP to change its immoral, crass, and venal stance on gun control, then I do not know what will.
I hope that decent, humane, moral, and clear-headed Republicans will change their party affiliation from Republican to Independent or Democrat.
Stand up, take this action, and get immediate attention.
I guess we should just cast our ballots for the candidates who offer the best "thoughts and prayers".
““It’s something we all say does not happen in small communities, although we found out today it does,” said Joe Tackitt, the sheriff of Wilson County....”. Perhaps if the Sheriff, along with the GOP and many other god-fearing types, remembered Sandy Hook, and all the other small town mass shootings, we would have laws in place by now to help prevent such horrific attacks. For the governor to make a statement relying on the divine intervention of God is both disheartening and infuriating. Whether you believe in God or not, praying is not going to help prevent future attacks. We need proper gun control (and mental health, etc..) legislation.
I wonder if this was happening in the Hamptons or, in some other area where our elected officials lived, and prayed, if they were under assault, would they drop what their doing and rush back to congress and ignore the NRA, and vote to ban assault type rifles. No wait, they have been attacked as individuals by a mentally ill man, a republican senator was seriously injured, and they still did nothing.
Maybe it's because the ratio of innocent Americans being killed by people who have access to weapons and virtually unlimited ammunition, is far more than one poultry senator, who's experience with home grown terrorism hasn't seemed to dim his republican stance on the proliferation of weapons that have no business in the hands of the public. It should also be noted that when one of their own was attacked the Brady Bill (the ban on assault type weapons) came to be.
So since a direct assault on their lives doesn't seem to diminish the lobbying power of the NRA in congress, then it's time the American public did. We need to demand that congress bring the assault rifle ban back, that the needs of the few, are vastly outweighing the rights of people to exercise their right to peruse happiness. I'm a fun owner, I'm also a veteran, there is very little difference between the colt AR-15 and the M-16. They are made for killing people, and we've seen how well they work for that purpose.
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And again we hear that it's not yet time to talk about gun control. When is it time? When the president is killed? When a governor is killed? Why are these murders any less important than the murder of a public figure like a well known politician? Why is this not a reason for the party that claims to value all life to make a speech condemning the ease with which almost anyone can get a permit to own a semi-automatic firearm that is designed to kill humans? Our president goes ballistic when there's a hint of terrorism from any immigrant in America yet refuses to do more than tweet condolences and prayers and call the victims great people.
Those great people would still be alive if guns weren't so easy to obtain in America. Families wouldn't need sympathy, condolences, or heartfelt prayers if people with legally owned guns, particularly semi-automatics, weren't able to obtain them. Make it harder to own guns, outlaw all but hunting rifles for the general public and there will be a decrease in massacres like this. I dare the GOP to ignore the NRA and do what's right for America.
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I really like the way Trump nuances his comments when the perpetrator of an attack is a homegrown, white male. If only he were so careful with the rest of his comments. Gotta keep playing to that base.
OK, Don, so if this is a mental health issue, will you support more funding for mental health care and treatment, and urge Congress to do the same?
The guns — anything but the guns. Maybe it’s time we did a rewrite and put gun ownership first among the list of the self-evident truths. At least we’d be honest with ourselves.
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Hey, for just under a thousand dollars, anybody can take out a mass of his countrymen. Ain't America great?
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I read a chart elsewhere in the NYT yesterday. It compared the number of guns per 1000 people in all 50 states. From the lowest (3) to the highest (40), it is only a small fraction of the population. The overwhelming majority of Americans not only do not own guns, but we are strongly in favor of strong gun control. It baffles my mind that we continue to elect people who so fiercely represent only that tiny sliver of people who do not care about their American neighbors' safety and peaceable existence in our day to day lives. It baffles my mind that the NRA report card matters to them.
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This gunman had a long list of mental health issues. WHAT was he doing with an assault rifle ?
He is not the first one.
Looks like the checks and balances needs a lot of work.
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"It’s something we all say does not happen in small communities, although we found out today it does,”
Guess they didn't remember Luby's.
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I have to agree with rhe President: clearly the work of a seriously disturbed individual. an act of insanity.
so, why do we make it so easy for the insane to get their hands on deadly weapons?
makes you wonder who is really crazy: the mentally ill, who purportedly can't help it... or the rest of us, who should know better.
really crazy: believing yet another tragedy will change anything, especially in a place like Texas.
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For the thoughts and prayers crowd:
The only thought you're capable of: If only there was a good guy with a gun.
Your only real prayer: God, thank you for accepting this sacrifice in exchange for protecting our gun rights.
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I was uncomfortable with how this article dramatically referred to the audience as clutching bibles and praying to the Lord, capitalized. Whos lord?
The article states that Major Hasan carried out his attack in an attempt to wage jihad on American military personnel. Wrong. He did so because he was mentally ill, exacerbated by the harassment he received for his religious beliefs.
These kinds of religiously biased comments serve only to fan flames. you are better than this, NYT.
Kelley was discharged from the Air Force for assaulting his wife and child. This "beat down" was so bad that he received 12 months confinement and a "bad conduct" discharge" according to the Times article. Most likely, civilian authorities were unaware of his violent past. With lax gun laws in Texas and many parts of the United States, there was nothing that could have stopped Kelley from acquiring military type weapons.
The military should take this tragedy and come up with a policy to warn civilian authorities about former violent service men and women. The military knew that he would eventually go back to his hometown. Did they recommend some mental health counseling? The military disposed of this man and he became someone else’s problem. That someone else was Sutherland Springs, Texas with 26 dead and counting.
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Well, it seems that you're finally going back to the good ol' days, when everybody had a gun and could hit back at anybody shooting at their will!
Welcome back wild, wild west!
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If your sixteen year old child nearly overdosed last night is it too soon to talk about rehab ?
If mental illness is wreaking havoc with gun permissiveness in America, is it too soon to talk about gun control?
The NYC bike lane terrorist had a truck but did not have a loaded weapon. Could it be that strict NY/NJ gun laws prevented him from getting one ?
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Big deal! The only unusual thing about this shooting is that it happened to white folks in church. There are north of 30 gun deaths in the US every single day, and nobody gets upset, because that is how we roll in the land of the gun.
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“President Trump called the shooting a “mental health problem at the highest level” and not “a guns situation,” adding the gunman was a “very deranged individual.””
Right about the deranged individual. Another mass shooting in which the motive is unlikely to ever be credibly known.
Utterly wrong about this not being a “gun situation.”
It is the highly lethal mix of a single deranged mind and weapons such as the AR-15 style rifle used in this massacre that now routinely produces such horrible carnage in America — as in no other nation on the planet.
Much deeper and unrelenting questions and actions regarding this unique American scourge need to command center stage both politically and morally until real solutions are found and enacted.
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Maybe after 4-5 more mass shootings the Republicans will consider some weak, watered down (so not lose those NRA dollars) gun control. So, there is hope America!
This problem will never end. Any one of us might be next.
1
Look at this picture....another pathetic candlelight vigil. How long until the next one?One week? Two weeks? The victims will have been forgotten by just about everyone by this time next week. By which time another morgue will be receiving a bunch of corpses. Possibly someone reading this comment.
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No more thoughts and prayers.
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No doubt someone (guess who) will say that this is not the time to discuss gun control. Bull feathers! The killer's motives don't matter. What matters is that they can get guns. Nasty guns. Of course it's time, way past time!
How many servicemen are returning from the middle east with PTSD and expertise in guns? How many marginally-educated under-employed young men see shooting others as their final retribution? Are there 0.1 million of them out there in a country of 320 million? Maybe more? Suppose a mere 1% of them lean toward shoot-em-ups. That's 1000 crazies who could be out to get us. And, as we have just seen, get us anywhere, even in small towns.
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And where are the NRA puppets Ryan and McConnell? Dead silence as usual....complete disgraces to this country....
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US politicians are bought by the NRA - their bank accounts matter most. Nothing more to wonder...
Trump, Abbott, and Cruz, your prayers are meaningless in the face of assault rifles and you know it. How about some legislative action instead!
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Jesus would be appalled at the hypocrites mouthing platitudes like "you're in our prayers" after the latest mass slaughter, this one at a Texas church.
Politicians in the NRA pocket are nothing more than modern-day money changers in the Temple on the Mount, selling their souls one assault rifle massacre at a time.
Just where is the Christian call to action?
Oh, I know, the death of innocent people, including children, in a house of prayer is really just the price of freedom.
1
Please stop blaming the gun lobby, the NRA, and such. Let’s face the fact that it was the founding fathers who, albeit unintentionaly, caused our irreperable gun fiasco.
I want to understand how all white males who kill scores of people are always "mental health" victims, but if you are not white, Christian or America, you are a terrorist. Please explain other than to justify unlimited gun and ammunition ownership?
A good guy with a gun stopped this massacre and a good guy with a gun stopped the NYC massacre. The common thread is guns should be easier to get for the good guys.
One thing,
What kind of evil possessed us that hundreds die but we will just flinch and look other side.
If any American can kill as much as they desire in nay place, what kind of rule, moral or anything like that a Muslim or other type terrorist do the same thing. In fact except 9/11 none of the true international ( Muslim ) terrorist attack out run as a casualty number to our very own evil domestic terrorists.
I am deeply shaken for a long time , there is something profoundly moral corruption of our society's disrespect ordinary person life. Elderly, adult or child can be massacred under the rotten moral of 2nd amendment with wide swath of American society approval.
If this is not moral rottenness what else is, what is the difference between us and Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Sudan and Afghanistan ?
America’s chickens come home to roost, a country founded on copious amounts of bloodshed and torture now can’t escape it’s brutal past. 50 dead, 26 dead, 20 kids dead makes no difference we yawn at the numbers and thank god we escaped this time. The new all American lottery did you survive the latest one and where will the fire be aimed next time as this country fall further into tribalism and hate with plenty of deadly weapons around.
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Deaths from warfare 1775 - 2015: 1,396,733
Firearmed-related deaths 1968 - 2015: 1,516,663
I´m talking just about americans.
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I'm just tired of the hypocrites in the nra and of congress. If they are against gun free zones why don't they propose being able to carry guns in the congress, courts, the white house, etc.? When it's in their offices they seem to be saying guns are too dangerous. What happened to the second amendment? Why can't I carry a gun into see my congressman? You talk out both sides of your mouths and by example prove you really do believe guns should be regulated if not outright banned. Why don't you put up or shut up? Yes I'm speaking to you hypocrites in congress! peace and coexist....
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Today, we have more hollow and empty words from the Seat Warmer in the Whitehouse.
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Thoughts and prayers to the victims of this administrations “thoughts and prayers” stock comment with no action.
This administration offers NOTHING BUT thoughts and prayers to, over and over and over.
When will they act? If it were a Muslim terrorist there would be actions, but another white Christian terrorist like the man who shot and killed 57 people at a music festival in Las Vegas, all these families get are GOP/ NRA “ thoughts and prayers”. ENOUGH.
I guess we get the country we deserve.
Abbott, Paxton, Cruz, Cornyn and their NRA backers own this. Keep your phony, cynical prayers and crocodile tears. They are an insult to the slaughtered and their loved ones.
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Approximately 3% of America's 320 million citizens are seriously mentally ill. That is 9,600,000 deranged people living in this country. This is the same percentage as any other nation, but we are the only country that rolls out the red carpet to psychotics and sociopaths and offers assault weapons to carry out their delusions. One would think that after one deranged man tried to murder the Republican delegation in Washington during a softball game that the lightbulb would have gone off. Here in the land of the brave, we all live in fear. Time to ban assault rifles, register every gun, jail anyone whose weapon falls into the wrong hands because it was not properly secured. Or better yet, perhaps its time to repeal the second amendment. Our lives would be safer, more secure and less wracked with pain. We could also save our thoughts and prayers, which these days have run out meaning.
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This president is more outraged by athletes kneeling than Americans being gunned down and murdered while praying.
So how low can you go...for me the light is gone and I am left in darkness.
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The race-baiting, xenophobia, religious bigotry, misogyny and violent hateful rhetoric of Donald John Trump played an indispensable role in this tragedy. Along with Texas Republican Senators Cruz and Cornyn, Texas Governor Abbott has trolled the same tawdry depths. Along with the Texas Republican Congressional delegation acting like rabid wolves howling in the background. Charlottesville's darkest demons are coming home to roost.
Jeff Sessions and John Kelly are devil's disciples at the center of evil. Trump is emotionally mentally morally temperamentally unfit to to be President of the United States. Trump's ignorant immature insecure intemperate inexperienced incompetence can get us all killed.
3
That's freedom.
Put metal detectors at all church doors and bullet proof glass on all windows.
A man armed with an Army-style assault rifle shoots worshippers at a Texas church, kills 26, and our president says “now” is not the time to talk about gun-control laws. Others talk about the need for faith in God. The Texas slaughter follows a long list of massive gun-slayings across our land. These cold-blooded killings with are not about faith in God, not about 2nd Amendment rights.
We can put out souls in God’s hands. Unfortunately, we cannot have faith our government will protect us in our daily lives because the people in charge of our government have sold their souls to the NRA. Those who lead the NRA and the government officials who protect the gun sellers’ bank accounts will one day be answerable to God. I can’t imagine God, to whom guns and money mean nothing, will pat them on the back and say “Good job!” I do believe God will deliver final justice to these money-hungry weapon traders and power-craving officials. And that justice will be Hell. Meanwhile, we Americans who are trying to live our lives in pursuit of happiness need to assert out rights not to elect officials who accept money from the NRA. Leave it to the U.S. Supreme Court to protect our 2nd Amendment rights. Giving to the NRA only protects the rights of madmen to own guns and kill innocent children, innocent mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters.
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Proponents of the Gun Lobby have two solutions. Give everyone an assault rifle with unlimited ammunition at birth and shout down everyone that doesn't agree using junior high bullying tactics calling tacky names like ferret face or weasel face. Its clear that those who believe guns are the way to go are coming down on the wrong side of history. The body count rises.
When a black, Hispanic, Muslim, Native American or any non-white does this, they are terrorists, and all non-whites are suspect. When a white person does this, he is a criminal and all whites are lily white.
When a black, Hispanic, Muslim, Native American or any non-white speaks loudly and rants about injustice, they are hauled off to jail for inciting lawlessness. When a white person does this, he is voted in as President of the USA.
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With citizens like this, who needs foreign terrorists?
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The killings for the week, including the event in NY City, rival weekly casualty accounts from Vietnam. Trump’s comments ring hollow.
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"He had served in the Air Force at a base in New Mexico but was court-martialed in 2012 on charges of assaulting his wife and child. He was sentenced to 12 months’ confinement and received a “bad conduct” discharge in 2014, according to Ann Stefanek, the chief of Air Force media operations."
Why on earth was this person able to get a gun?
1
Interestingly enough, the NY Times editorial page didn't have a piece on getting rid of cars after last weeks incident.
Ladies and Gentlemen: mark your calendars.
The latest deranged shooter began his killing spree around 11:00 am on November 5, 2017. By around 11:00 am on November 15, 2017, our national media will no longer be carrying any front page stories about this tragic event.
Ten. Days.
1
"Praying to the Lord??." How about a little reportorial distance?
We can bet all our money that Trump and almost all the Republicans and some Democrats in the Congress are not feeling any pain in their hearts even after another set of 26 beautiful all American souls were killed sitting in the church on a Sunday morning in this small town of Texas of only 400 people called Sutherland Springs.
But the worst part of this horrible killing is not this mass killing itself.
It's the republican party people's reactions.
Or mostly the crooked President Trump and his Republican lawmakers' reactions all over the country.
They might say that they're sorry for this recent mass shooting where a lone gunman who is not a 'middle eastern terrorist' as they call any Muslim killer even if that person kills one American out of personal grudge, goes inside a church and slaughters 26 American citizens in broad daylight for no reason at all.
But for these evil Republican lawmakers and their evil president and their devilish friends in the N.R.A. who actually just allowed this butcher deliberately, like many other butchers like the recent Stephen Maddock of Las Vegas fame, to arm himself to the teeth with all kinds of semi-automatic rifles and slaughter not any middle eastern terrorists but totally innocent God fearing mostly White congregation members who just went to the church to pray to Jesus to keep themselves safe and sound.
And what Trump and his partners in crime in the Re[publican led congress will say,"It's not the time to talk about gun control".
The gun lobby created the gun culture we now must live with. Prayers will not solve anything, just paper over the real issue of a gun-obsessed nation.
Prayers are not working. Why call on God to do something what you have the power to do yourself? Stop being cowards and put the onus on God to solve your problems.
So the Pres tells us this is a mental health problem and not a gun problem. Back in Feb, at the beginning of his erasing everything Obama did, he rolled back the provision of, you guessed it, backchecks on those with mental health issues from purchasing guns.
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I inadvertently hit the send button before completing the last message.
Final thought: while I am not a fan of Trump, he is correct when he says this is a mental health issue, and you haters need to shut it down and back off. He didn’t create this problem....he inherited it from Obama, both Bushes, Bill Clinton and their predecessors. You can pass all the anti assault rifle bans and laws you want, but how would you ever confiscate the millions already in circulation? A determined mentally ill person will find one no matter what it takes. Would a “War on Assault Rifles” work? Why don’t you take a look at the War on Drugs and you’ll get your answer.
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We have to assume entire families died in that church. To arm yourself and go into a church to shoot families you don't even know is pure evil. He knew, of course, that he would die somewhere yesterday -- shot by police or by someone else. Which was the real purpose. To end an obviously tormented self-hating life by lashing out at normalcy and then dying in some kind of infamy. There are lots of tormented, hateful people in the world. Do we really need to arm them to the teeth?
Nothing is going to change until the NRA, and their leadership, are put down, taken out, terminated.
They own every Publican Congresscritter, and far too many Dem's, and they are the reason, and the sole reason, for our eternal inaction on the issue of gun safety.
They are our very own radical extremists…
…except they are directly responsible for the deaths of far more Americans (at least two full orders of magnitude more) than ISIS and al Qaeda combined.
To use that locution so brilliantly provided us by that Dick, Cheney, and the boy-king George W Bush (now lionized only because they are less visibly insane than our current would-be monarch), the NRA are "objectively pro-ISIS."
(Really, would anyone be terribly surprised if ISIS were to claim that this latest mass-killer had sworn allegiance to them?)
The NRA, and the individuals at the helm thereof, are the enablers of these slaughterers, and must be ended -- and with extreme prejudice, never to harm us again.
Will nobody save us from these meddlesome priests of the church of weaponry?
Will nobody bring them to the condign political end they have more than earned, many times over?
Please note -- that was a "POLITICAL end" I called for.
If you thought otherwise...
Notice I said nothing whatsoever to suggest anything different, or more physical.
Now, what does it say about your expectations and presumptions, and the norms under which we're now living (and frequently dying), if you thought I meant something worse, hm?
Time for citizens to take action....wrest control from NRA and politicians through massive relentless resistance, protest, boycotts....people have the power...
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In an earlier comment I noted that the Times sanitized the name of the instrument of murder used, calling it simply a rifle. Now some hours later that designation has been changed to "military-style rifle" as if the Times still did not know if the weapon was more than a single-shot musket.
My Swedish newspaper and many others present what appears to be more accurate designations. By now the Times must know that more accurate designation.
Why does it fail to use a more accurate designation?
This practice has something in common with the choice to use the word terrorism only if the act was commited by someone shouting Allahu akbar as if killings by American boys were just, as Trump says, acts of crazed people, whose behavior is just part of the American way of life.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogsot.com
Dual citizen US SE
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This is the effect of bringing millions of muslim in this land. Its clear from our Hindu sayings " Jesi Sangat vesi rangat ". "Company You keep."
Bringing bad people, brings bad effect on the society. Our intellectuals should blame our democrats who want bad people on this land to reside. More like these acts will follow if we have no standards who should live here .
Remind me why the public needs to have access to military-style weapons or weapons that shoot off multiple rounds. Who ever allowed that in the first place????
If the Second Amendment supporters are so keen on that it is their right to bear arms, then let them have the musket loaders that could provide food for the table and fend off an attacker.
This country has lost it's self, lost it's way. And the thing is it just keeps getting worse. Mental illness alright. Well here goes ... this is the karma for invading a country for no reason at all & killing probably a million people, + nearly 5,000 soldiers, leaving the whole Middle East in tatters. And that's just one place we've destroyed. This is what you get when insurance companies act like their giving you money, Flo is your pal, & there's a commercial on every second on every channel with people who seem not of this earth or something. This is what happens when every other sec. when there's a commercial on about some pharma drug that might thin your blood but causes 50 other bad things. Or some anti depression drug that makes you want to kill people. This what happens when they pass a cancer bill, give them billions & all we get is commercials night and day.
We worship violence. Every movie has ads where there's a gun pointed in your face or someone is getting punched. People listen to singers with auto-tune, cause they can't carry a melody and they're big stars. Night is day and stupid is admired. We have become the banana republic that we propped up in El Salvador and Honduras, where killers lead the country and 1% own everything. We elected a Pig for President, the lowest common denominator. I could bring up thousands of examples that have caused the drip drip to insanity, And it includes political correctness run amok. There's answers & they are obvious. Sorry..
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"Ruger’s AR-15s made for civilian markets ... "
....
Am I the only one chilled to the bone after reading these words?
How come a "civilian market" for such weapons does exist in the first place?
Trump's first thought is to send a subtle message to the NRA that this shooting was not caused by a gun, but by, a "deranged individual." Read that as, "Your weapons are safe with me."
And yet again, because of the right to own arms, any amount, any kind, anyone, we people, of this country, die. Where are our rights to live?
Our leader says this is a "mental health" issue, no worries about the weapon used, or how he obtained it.
Wow, that was close, Trump making direct lobbying effort on behalf of gun owners.....our hero!
Back to deceiving the country boys and girls.......
I note that Trump* called this guy "deranged", and that the GOP recently removed restrictions on mentally ill people from owning guns.
“President Trump called the shooting a ‘mental health problem at the highest level’ and not ‘a guns situation.’ “ Because, what, we’re just lucky the killer didn’t use thoughts and prayers instead?
These killers crave coverage. Put them on the front page of the NYT's and you guarantee another copycat.
I am just wondering...what kind of horrendous atrocity will we have to have to qualify a mass shooting as a "guns situation"?
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Little, almost nothing said about the "church neighbor" who had the presence of mind, and the rifle at hand, that shot and wounded this animal....why?
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Repeal the 2nd Amendment.
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Since this tragic shooting, already another 10 people were
fataly shot. The madness of unrestricted gun ownership and its domestic terror against a civilian popuation belongs to nobody else but the GOP.
It is domestic terrorism, republicans, and you are its sponsor....
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/number-of-gun-deaths
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Another AR-15 in the hands of a deranged person? Not a gun problem?
Memo to the Director of Homeland Security:
The Homeland is most definitely NOT secure.
Please do something.
Enough of God. Man-made laws could have limited this, but the NRA, Gun companies, and the Republican Party don't want that. My God!
1
When the republicans offer thoughts and prayers, the thoughts are “I wonder who the shooter was” and the prayers are “please let them be black and pretty please Muslim”
Everyone else prays that this time maybe the spineless politicians will do something like they did in Australia and actually make things better.
1
So the solution to mass shootings, especially in a church, is to arm people and to train them to kill each other? As a Kentucky pastor said twenty years ago, when concealed carry was first proposed for churches in that state, "Jesus would puke."
Gun death in the aU.S. Remind me of a dear friend or relative who chooses to ruin his life by smoking two packs a day and chases the fumes with a bottle of spirits. You know it is killing him, you told him so many times but he would not listen. So one day you stop saying anything and make sure your black suit is back from the cleaner. Someone in my team joked this morning that the only thing remaining of this massacre in the US collective memory will be „how much worse things would have been if the armed neighbor had not been there“. Once more, it need not be the UK model where private gun ownership is practically banned. In Switzerland, trained(!) military personnel keep,their assault rifles at home (probably closeset to what the founding fathers had in mind); in France, there are mllions of ardent hunters and sportsmen owning appropriate guns for their hobby AFTER passing thorough qualification and background checks etc etc.
1
Trump is a lost cause, we had more mass murders in the US per his day in office than any President in recent history and I wonder why?
The Republicans Law Makers are not blameless in all these mass killings.
1
Jack M NY opens with "I am so fortunate that at my synagogue many of the congregants (legally) wear weapons to services" and closes with "Get armed and prepared."
For this he was made a Times Pick. He elicited what may be a record number of replies and got 155 readers to click on "recommend".
His belief needs to be challenged, not here by replies but by epidemiological studies and simulations.
Imagine a floor plan showing the placement of each person at worship. The post-murder version shows the position of each person killed. A killer armed with a weapon discharging x bullets per second opens the door to the sanctuary and begins firing in bursts in a, b, c seconds. What were the values of x, a, b, c and more?
Then the Jack M model is used as a basis for simulations, starting with his own synagogue showing the position of each armed worshiper. The killer enters. Each of Jack M's heroes to be reacts. In how many seconds? What are the lines of fire? Are there no congregants along these lines?
Jack M clearly has not thought this through nor has any of his 155 supporters.
Time for the CDC to support full studies of each such event - Las Vegas, Sutherland Springs, Charlston SC - showing what did happen and what might have happened had the people being fired upon been armed. Perhaps this will awaken Jack M, more likely not.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
.
1
nothing is going to change. we live in a really messed up and sick country.
1
I thought Texas was the state most full of "good guys with guns" ready, willing and able to stop any/all of those "bad guys with guns."
Is "good guys with guns" just a myth? A paper tiger? A paper tiger with a gun? I am shocked. Shocked!
A cynical person might call this divine retribution. "Chickens coming home to roost." Clear-thinking individuals might call out all those "good guys with guns" for their hypocrisy. Their hypocrisy and their impotence.
2
Rather than thinking and praying isn’t it about time we band military style rifles?
An outrageously distorted interpretation of the Second Amendment now holds all Americans hostage to routine slaughter. The N.R.A., the firearms industrial complex, and the gun lobby -- as well as our gutless, corporate-owned Congress -- are all complicit in these endless murders. They are all merchants of death.
2
This country has got some issues.If the United States were
human, we would be locked up in a padded cell. So this is the new
normal, to be gunned down by lunatics with automatic weapons. Are
we sacrificial lambs now to be offered to the 2nd amendment and
the NRA?
Anyone of the candle vigilantes who also carries a gun is a hypocrite and deserves what is coming his/her way.
Current casualty count in Sutherland Springs: 26 dead, including several small children, 20 wounded, many critically. If the shooter had been black or brown, it would have been “terrorism” and there would have been great outrage from all, especially from Republican’s. Since he’s a young white man, it’s just another angry, unbalanced white guy, and it’s a perfectly acceptable part of life. It’s just the price that the Second Amendment fanatics demand the rest of us pay so that every angry white man can walk around with a gun, using them as they wish. According to the NRA and their murderous supporters, we just have to get used to living our lives in mortal fear of the “good guy” with a gun. To the NRA and their well paid political allies, we have no rights. Our lives must be sacrificed, at any time they choose, to the threatening presence of an armed, macho population, ever ready to indiscriminately use their weapons on the rest of us.
Keep crazy hate-filled people away from firearms.
EVERY time the multiple killer is either a radicalized Muslim or progressive, or a crazy person whose name should have been on the gun purchaser check-site.
But now that politically connected progressives even take vehicular murders as a reason to go grab America's guns, this won't matter. That is when politicians are shouting, ''Don't assign any credibility to me.''
2
As he left Independence Hall on the final day of deliberation at the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, a lady asked Benjamin Franklin, "Well Doctor what have we got — a republic or a monarchy?" "A republic," replied the Doctor, "If you can keep it.” (From the notes of Dr. James McHenry, one of Maryland’s delegates to the Convention, first published in "The American Historical Review," vol. 11, 1906, on p. 618.)
So, at least four justices of the SCOTUS comprising the majority fancy themselves as "strict constructionists," eh.
Very well, [in the vernacular] leave us not consider stare decisis (based on decisions going back well over a century) — nor even the plain text of the vaunted Second Amendment Amendment (as "interpreted" under the rules of English grammar as was the common colloquy in 1787).
Nope; let's just consider this one irrefutable fact: the ONLY firearms that the Founders had any awareness of whatsoever were single-shot, hand-loaded flintlocks.
And for those, uh, slow on the draw would be the appropriate phrase, it is not possible to commit mass murder with weapons such as those. Moreover, anyone — ANYONE — who actually believes that the Founders would have had even a scintilla of an intention to allow private citizens the unregulated possession of our weapons of mass carnage, much less war, is not only abysmally ignorant of American history (not to mention that of the English language), but profoundly deranged.
2
When, oh lord, when are these people going to see the light and INSTITUTE SOME REASONABLE BACKGROUND CHECKS?
How does a wife-beater with a bad military discharge get the right to carry a gun?
5
Rest in peace; solace to the families.
At least Massachusetts banned "bump-stocks."
How soon was the Las Vegas slaughter forgotten?
It's called 'radical domestic terrorism,' not "radical Islamic terrorism."
You got a gun? We'll have a gun. You've nuclear weapons? Then we've the
right to have nuclear weapons. Where does it end? An eye for an eye; tooth for a tooth
in this information-age Tower of incitement Babel has led to hear no evil,
speak no evil, see no evil, but do evil. Don't worry, for you're 'covered' by "fake news,"
which will soon drown it all out anyway.
Just in time: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/04/us/gun-death-rates.html?
Should not the government's FIRST priority be the safety of its citizenry?
Movin' for the reefs and shallow water U.S.
trump......“Americans will do what we do best: we pull together and join hands and lock arms and through the tears and sadness we stand strong.”
I would hope so. it's old hat by now. it'd be interesting to see the stats of mass shootings/murders by American citizens since trump was elected compared to actual terrorist attacks by dreaded foreigners. i.e. muslims
1
Trump supporters should face the truth and NOT be Politically Correct in their statements.
Everyone should call this what it is: "White Christian Terrorism". An abbreviated list includes White Christian Terrorists such as Charles Joseph Whitman, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, Anders Behring Breivik, Jared Lee Loughner, Dylann Roof and Stephen Paddock. Today we add the name of Devin Patrick Kelly.
With overwhelming Evangelical support of the NRA's extreme interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, these groups have made the 2nd Amendment a suicide pact between these White Christian terrorists and the rest of American society. How many mass shootings must our nation endure before rational gun safety is finally considered by Congress?
The 2nd Amendment is NOT the price of freedom. Rather, with each mass shooting it has become the price of insanity.
2
Typical Republican responses:
"Thoughts and prayers" (repeat x number times)
"Let's not politicize this tragedy"
"Shame on the Democrats for walking out of Congress during our moment of silence for the victims"
"(If shooter is Male/White) The shooter was mentally ill. Isolated incident. Lone-wolf. He has no ties to Islamic Terrorism."
Like a broken record, NOTHING will ever be done because we have spineless, corrupt, bought-and-paid-for by the NRA politicians who are more worried about their next paycheck from the NRA than the lives of innocence. Absolutely pathetic to call these suits are "representatives."
5
How many more people are supposed to die, how many more families must lose their loved ones, before our stupid politicians stop taking money from NRA, grow some back bone, and stand up and say enough is enough? When are they going to be brave enough and speak up and demand a sensible gun control? If not now, then when?
1
So last week a terrorist kills eight people with a truck. Why? BECAUSE HE CAN'T GET A GUN. Yet, in hardly more than a month, two domestic terrorizers are able to kill ten times that number. Why? Because the white men in power in America value the right to own guns more than they value people.
2
Once again all we get from politicians are “thoughts and prayers”. Sorry, but all the thinking and praying to the imaginary man in the sky just isn’t working. A lunatic runs over pedestrians in NYC and right away our President howls about ending an immigration program and sending him to Guantanamo Bay. Less than a week later another lunatic shoots up a church and what do we get from the President? “Thoughts and prayers”. Should we be less moved to action when an American slaughters innocent people?
Tsar Trump continued:
Thoughts and prayers
First Responders
Ban all Christian immigration
Tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts.
I won in a landslide
Hillary's to blame
1
This man had been convicted and served time for domestic assault. He couldn't control his anger when it was directed at his own family! Why on earth would you allow this man to own any kind of firearm, let alone an assault weapon!?
What do we do? Step one: anyone accused of domestic violence or sexual assault should give up their firearms until the case is settled. Anyone convicted should permanently lose the right to own or possess firearms. And close the gun show loophole. Anyone adjudicated mentally ill or troubled should also lose the right to posses firearms.
And what knucklehead wants to make silencers legal? That would've increased the carnage. Oh wait, it's Trump tender-ears junior, another mental defective. That bill needs die today.
There's lots more to sane gun control but these will do for a start.
2
...and Congress and the President do nothing. They don't discuss; they don't debate; they do nothing. Thoughts and prayers help no one. The words ring hollow because we hear them every few weeks...and we do nothing. Texas has to be one of the most armed states in the nation, and what happened when a crazed person opened fire in a church...nothing. The killer holds all the cards; the killer has the element of surprise. His gun is bigger, faster, and more lethal than the handgun in a pocket or in a purse. The NRA does nothing. We are literally killing each other with weapons of mass destruction. Our solution...nothing.
2
My thoughts and prayers are with those who have to hear from this Whitehouse and Huckleberry Hound Sanders that “their thoughts and prayers are with the victims of a random shooter”, in a church, in the USA, again.
Call it what it is first. A white Christian terrorist killing American citizens, with assault weapons in a church.
However, it still is too soon to talk about gun violence in this country.
3
Ironically, as this was a "white on white" mass killing like Las Vegas trump is unable to say anything as it occured deep in trumpland. The prayers jazz drives me crazy though. Such hypocrisy. The truly caring would work towards stopping the mass killings.
3
"now is not the time to discuss gun laws. I repeat......"
This is what I think: Since guns don't kill people (people kill people), and since gun control wouldn't stop bad dudes/hombres from acquiring them anyway, I say we make grenades and RPGs (rocket propelled grenades), etc., available to civilians. Hey, bad guys are gonna find ways to get their hands on them anyway. The critical thing is, if we continue to allow access to all kinds of weaponry, good guys will have unimpeded access as well, and we all know that's our best hope for stopping those mentally ill demons who go shooting up people at prayer, children at school, and so on. I say we stick with this clever policy of allowing all to bear arms, because clearly it has borne fruit. Thank god for the wisdom of our leaders. Always doing right by their fellow citizens. God Bless America.
1
Remember, you are not powerless to effect some sort of change here! Just call your local congressperson and tell them you support tighter gun regulations...
Oh, wait... unless of course you live in a gerrymandered congressional district, in which case your congressperson really doesn't have to listen to you unless there's a chance they'll get "primaried" somehow.
Or maybe they'll listen to you if you have lots of money. More money than the NRA can give them, specifically. Then they might listen.
1
I have nothing left but tears.
2
An ISIS attack kills innocent people in NYC and our "leaders" are righteously outraged; we are promised tighter immigration control and more spending on defense, weapons and "security". How useless and hollow is our nations leadership if they cannot respond as passionately and honestly commit to reducing the needless loss of life from gun violence. What is it going to take? More 5 year olds torn apart by buckets? Spineless and disgusting and completely ineffective - that is the quality of our national leaders today.... and anyone who supports them in their inaction is equally to blame if these incidents continue. Shameful!
1
If a classroom full of dead 6 and 7-year-olds didn't change gun laws nothing will. SOS every day. Nothing will change.
1
So according to our President if the killer had a knife the results would have been the same, after all it was a mental thing not a gun problem.
2
Another, mass slaughter of innocent people in America, and this is news?!
1
According to WH logic, all white males west of the Mississippi should be prevented from coming east, and the eastern bank of the river should have a tall wall
1
The NRA should be estatic today! After yet another senseless massacre with a LEGAL military weapon, the gunman was pursued and killed by gun-toting civilian "heroes" who took the law into their own hands. It's time to stop wasting taxpayer money on Pension-Grabbing Police Officers. Let everyone get a gun and shoot it out amongst themselves!
1
Still too early to talk about gun control?
1
What more could Trump do? Gun control will never fly!
Follow Australia's lead and outlaw all semi-automatic firearms.
Require would-be gun owners to satisfactorily pass a federal government-conducted firearm safety course.
Register all firearms with the federal government.
Limit ownership and possession of handguns, and severely punish those who unlawfully possess one.
Require gun owners and users to carry insurance with enough coverage to take care of a person who is severely-injured by a careless person with a gun (not going to make the citizens pay for the actions of an idiot).
If thoughts and prayers are effective, why haven’t we seen positive results?
Instead a dismal litany of mass shootings, usually perpetuated by white men.
1
This was a rural, religious church in Texas. I'm very curious to know how many of the dead and wounded have spent years supporting the lax gun laws that have allowed this to happen.
2
For decades the killers of Human Race are those who had killed millions of victims in my country U.S.A.
You know, I'n feeling a little numb. I am tired of feeling sorry for people who live in states where murderers are allowed to walk around with assault rifles.
Everybody is praying again. The governor of Texas, the silly man in the White House, the traitorous leader in the Senate. The people in the church were praying too. How's that working out for everyone?
The victims don't need our prayers. They are dead. Maybe if they had lived in a state with reasonable gun laws, or (heaven forbid!) banned guns altogether, they would still be alive and we all wouldn't have to pray so much.
1
Here is a prediction on what will happen concerning gun control - NOTHING! This has become a weekly real reality show what better entertainment and oh, so real. Abbott, Trump and the NRA will say "Now is not the time to talk about this let the families deal with their loss. One person said outside the church "Everyone is with Jesus." Sad, that 26 are killed including a five year old and this is what you get. Nothing happened after 59 dead and hundreds wounded in Las Vegas and nothing will happen now. Leadership what leadership? The Friday before the shooting in Las Vegas a Congressional Committee had passed in committee to go to full House a bill which would have made it legal to purchase a silencer for your weapon something that had been outlawed since the 1930's. Already this year Trump signed an Executive Order (He does love those) that made someone who had been in a psy. facility or had mental health issues the ability to purchase a firearm. Yes, everyone needs a machine gun what good home would be without one. In the US where Kinder chocolate eggs cannot be purchased actually one could get up to 10 years in prison for selling them since a child might choke on the toy. Here is the solution that will pass muster by Trump. Abbott and FOX the solution is when you enter the church they have a box filled with guns and everyone gets to take one and then return it when leaving. Hey, coming to a store near you. America a JOKE - YOU BET! Jim Trautman
1
Keep praying with no action and you'll continue to see more mass shootings with no end in sight. Guns matter more than lives in this insane country led by the most incompetent and pathetic human being ever to exists.
1
Dear NYT,
I really do not think you should report on this, it is insane, first we will hear the politicians with their thoughts and prayers and some questions of what we can do to stop this? And then NOTHING I mean NOTHING will get done! This will blow over and get buried under the next insane Trump tweet and then business as usual. My heart breaks for those involved. However, this is not going to change at all, we can do is wait for the next one, until we are willing to accept that our lives, our children's lives must come first, our right to be safe must come before someone's right to own a gun, period!
1
Maybe we need a new tactic.
Instead of allowing gun fanatics to hold their 2nd A rights over our heads, WE need to fight back for our 1st A rights: the right to free assembly.
Surely some clever lawyers can find a way to show that by our making it legal for citizens to amass such weaponry, ammo, ballistic vests, accessories, etc. ...that this fact in and of itself is INFRINGING on everyrone else's right to freedom of assembly (since we now have a very well-founded fear of being murdered when we are part of a public assembly).
#1stAmendmentRight
America is at war....with itself
2
Ted Cruz, John Cornyn and Greg Abbott should attend every one of these funerals and then tell us why they won’t support any gun control legislation. Shame on them for sending "thoughts and prayers." DO SOMETHING!
2
What is the status of the bump-stock debate from the last round of deaths? Did the NRA get a bill killed already? Are the donations to McCain et. al. still working for us, or just him? Our attention span is so short....
This is how cynical I have become over all our mass murders by guns:
Oh what, another mass killing spree with high powered rifles? Ok, my thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of the dead. Let's not discuss politics at this time as we all need to mourn the loved ones lost.
Oh hum, another day in this upside down country. Tine to move on.......
Bring back the ban to military style weapons
2
How does someone who was convicted, confined for 12 months, and kicked out of the Air Force for assaulting his wife and child maintain his ability to purchase a semi-automatic assault rifle? The Republican Party and the NRA.
3
The article refers to the terrorist as Mr. Kelley several times. This monster deserves no respect and should be called out as the assassin that is/was. He is/was a heartless,evil excuse for a human being who because of the NRA could own assault rifles capable of gunning down masses of innocent people in 15 seconds. These brutal senseless events are beginning to be normalized as part of our day to day existence and must be stopped. We as citizens should be able to attend church, go to a movie or concert without any chance of being massacred by a thug. This is not the land of the free anymore. We are being held captive by the NRA. Prayers for the victims mean nothing. I wake up with sadness each day dreading to read the news.. If it's my last day on earth I don't want to die feeling terror. TAKE THEIR ASSAULT WEAPONS AWAY.
Another slaughter in America with the use of military style weapons, and there is no surprise that Donald Trump is using again, Wayne LaPierre's of the NRA approved talking points for the Whitehouse and the GOP.
Donald Trump is the first one to jump all over a killing if it's done by a foreigner as a terrorist act, need for extreme vetting; but when you have this domestic type of terrorism, using military type weapons that out guns even law enforcement, it's not about the gun, but mental health.
Of course, it's about mental health regardless of whether you are a terrorist or a ex-military person or a person with a grudge, no one kills people for the sake of killing and can be determined right in the mind.
However, to dismiss the one common denominator in most all of these killing are guns and high capacity firearms, Mr. President, they are not using Pea-shooters.
Stop whimpering around like the rest of your timid party in the pockets of the NRA and Gun Manufacturers, with you guys it's never the right time to talk about guns and limiting the types of weapons sold and ability to purchase them.
You can bet it someone was attacking people or Donald Trump with Pea-shooters the first thing he would be railing against is the right to bear Pea-shooters.
I loath to refer to Donald Trump as a President, because that is something he is not, he is a reality show chump who convinced enough chumps of limited intelligence to vote for him.
1
Yet another typically American tragedy. And what will be our government’s - Trump & Co. - response? Typically American. From the pulpit: “This is not the time to talk about gun control.” In less than 140 characters: “Shocking! Must defend ourselves better. Get more guns, more open carry. Shoot ‘em when you see ‘em!”
Never gonna end, y'all. Flood the market with guns, or melt them all down, it makes no difference. If Sandy Hook didn't change anything, nothing will. This is the face of the warped masculine ego, and it won't stop until new forms of power are valued
How is it that a man kicked out of the military because he assaulted his wife and child (and served time?) is able to obtain an assault rifle?
When are we going to get the courage to address this nation's sick obsession with guns?
2
The Texas governor want's "god's guidance" on this?
Here it is.
Dear Texas,
Please change your gun laws for the safety of your people.
Thank you,
God
5
Devin Patrick Kelley
If only we had had stricter immigration laws back when against the wave of Irish coming to our shores ...
3
"Lord, bless the NRA and protect me from angry constituents who demand gun control. Amen."
A Republican prayer.
abolish the second amendment!
1
There is a solution. Everyone who passes a background check should carry their gun to church.
1
Thoughts and preyers from the reason-rejecting Congress and the predator-arming NRA.
1
You can light all the candles, pray all the prayers but until you get rid of the assault weapons this will continue to happen. Pathetic and deeply disturbing.
2
I hope this hope the New York Times is going to give press coverage to the self described “ citizen of the community “ Johnnie Langendorff a quickly minted citizen soldier who rose to the occasion.
Langendorff came upon the scene of the massacre and chased down the shooter in a high speed chase that exceeded 95 mph, causing the mass murder Devin Kelly to crash. Langendorff is not ex-military or a trained police officer he is just a regular guy Who works at a Napa Auto parts store.
Kelly and Langendorff’ s life’s intersected on a Texas road .. 2 men going in opposite directions on the road as well as life.
And yes, Langendorff is a hunter and a gun owner.
Thousands of comments so far but I feel the need to reply even if not seen by anyone about the complicit actions of Trump and Texas Senators:
Then: February 28, the Trump signed the bill rolled-back a regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun. It should be no surpise the regulation was from the Obama era. Accoding to NBC news “The National Rifle Association “applauded” Trump’s action. Chris Cox, NRA-ILA executive director, said the move “marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our arms.” https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era...
Now: November 5, 2017 Trump says "This is a mental health problem at the highest level.”
Texas Senators Cornyn and Cruz votes on gun matters:
YES - Disapprove of rule submitted by Social Security Administration which implements certain restrictions on gun purchases by individuals who have been deemed incapable of managing their federal benefit payments. (the bill that Trump signed)
YES - Authorizes Reciprocity for the Carrying of Certain Concealed Firearm
NO - Prohibits the Sale of Assault Weapons
NO - Limits Firearm Magazine Capacity
NO - Fix Gun Checks Act of 2016
NO - Prohibits the Transfer of Firearms to Suspected Terrorists
NO - Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2015
NO - Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act - Key Vote
4
I am sick and tired of hearing that guns don't kill people.
Enough is enough!
Semi automatic guns/rifles are weapons of mass slaughter.
There is never, ever a reason for a private citizen to have a semi automatic weapon.
Period.
2
Trump calls this "A mental health problem". American Exceptionalism rules once again-- only in America a "mental health problem" of a single person can directly cause the death of 27 or 58 people within a few minutes. Yippee!! We SOOO special! No one does it better!!
The fact that this is the anniversary of a Muslim shooting had nothing to do with this story. Thank you for the reminder that Muslims are bad though.
Appears he was chased down and killed (?) by civilians. Anyone find that disturbing?
To me, this consitiutes terrorism just as much as the truck attack on the bike path in Manhattan.
1
What do mass killings and limitless gun ownership have in common ??
1
This was the last day of childhood for the poor little kids here. Just unbelievable that military weapons are out there, available to whoever, so any rage-monger, any malcontent, can stage their own massacre- in a church, a movie theater, a first grade class.
Politicians: Is this really all you will let us offer our American kids? Nothing?
Your prayers are hollow, Gov Abbott. "People ask for bread and you give them stones" says the Bible story about hypocrites.
1
My question to Wayne LaPierre is, where were all those good guys with guns?
In a sane society, the NRA would be considered a terrorist organization and Mr. LaPierre would be in prison for aiding and abetting thousands of murders.
With Trump as president and the NRA in charge of Congress, this country is now officially crazy.
The people here and the Texas AG have me a little confused about arming oneself for church.
I have asked myself WWJC (what would Jesus. carry). A Glock ? Colt? I could find no answer in today’s reading from the gospel ( the Beattitudes—you know the one with Blessed are the peacemakers and all that) so I guess I’ll have to keep looking .
But I do get their point about being armed and ready since the Bible does teach us to do unto others... What else could that mean except be ready to shoot evil people?
Another mass shooting, more unbelievable heartbreak. When will your country ever be able to confront the issue of gun control. Until you do, this will keep happening. At a certain point, American Exceptional ism is really only the right you keep sacred to kill one another. What a waste.
Using Trumpian logic, we need to ban interstate migration to stop violence against innocent people.
1
Ban all semiautomatic weapons. Confiscate them. Make them illegal. The gun-nuts will whine and whine and whine. Is their whining--and the lobbying of the gun industry via the NRA--a valid reason to not do the right thing? I'd love to hear a valid reason besides "people will just murder with knives, only criminals will have guns, etc. etc." Guess what--most mass shooters were "law-abiding" up until they commit mass murder.
2
It's a shame we have a mentally deficient leader "at the very highest level" who delivered such a poor analysis of the last tragic mass shooting.
Perhaps we should prepare some very simple Twitter format sentences about how Australia and the UK have managed to successfully tackle mass shootings by forbidding all machine guns and post them on the POTUS Facebook page.
2
More guns. Fewer churches. Yeah. That's the answer.
The standard and oft repeated Onion headline after today's mass shooting is no joke:
"We Have No Way to Prevent This. Says the Only Country Where This Regularly Happens"
2
I am proud to say I have and never will own a gun.
1
American deaths from warfare from 1775 - 2015: ~1.396.733
Firearm related deaths in america from 1968 - 2015: 1.516.863
Are americans nuts?
3
Time for sensible gun control.
2
This absolutely proves that we MUST double down on our immigration laws to keep people like this terrorist out of out country.
1
Sixty two years ago the nation was shocked into doing something about Lynching by the publication of photos of the dead body of 14 year old Emmett Till. It’s time for the media to shock this country into action with some massacre photos.
2
God says, "'Thou shall not kill'. Guns are designed to kill, therefore, they're evil. Gun manufacturers are evil. Gun retailers are evil. Gun owners are evil. Gun users are especially evil. Politicians like Donald Trump 666 (when A=49, B50...) who promote guns are especially evil. The NRA is pure evil."
2
Our mental heath problem is with the people who support the NRA in a time like this.
4
These tragedies are heart wrenching. Look at the link between the increase in mass shootings and the greater availability of more powerful guns. Look at the increase of shootings since the republican congress pulled the restriction on mentally ill people to purchase guns.
A second area to look at would seem to be the mental health of of different religions. When white natives commit mass murder, their issue is one of mental health according to our unfortunately elected republican leaders. When a islamic terrorist commits such an act, it is evil with no mention of mental illness. Why is it that middle eastern people alone do not have the mental health issues that force US citizens to kill people.
1
I am sure there were "good guys" with a gun inside given this is inside a church. Why did it happen anyway?
1
Maybe the President should ask what life a 5-year old child and a 14-year old child would have lived if a murderer had never been able to obtain a gun.
1
Every time Mr. Trump speaks I feel a nauseating flash of revulsion.
The President of the United States should have empathy for the victims of this horror not apologies and excuses for those who committed a mind numbing act of murderous slaughter.
Mr. Trump is a misguided, soulless, empty vessel. Listening to him speak is like having a dentist or a proctologist make a house call at midnight. It is sickening.
2
Here we go again... 26 people had their Constitutional right to life destroyed by our fealty to the second amendment.
Rinse, learn nothing, repeat.
2
and the NRA and the gun lobby can put a few more death notches on their belts. NY Times has an excellent editorial in today's paper, but when will their be a massive march on Washington?
1
Thoughts and prayers are a waste. This guy didn't use a car, or a knife - he used a gun. Good guy with a gun is a falascy perpetuated to change and distort the narrative. Unfortunately a lot more people will have to die before there are restrictive gun laws which will save lives. See Australian gun laws... they work. If this had been a Muslim the politicians the media would play it up. I think I would rather take my chances with radical Muslims, than with an NRA white guy. I would caution anyone going to a place, such as concert, church - basically any place where people will congregate.
1
My thoughts and prayers are with the victims that this administration offers NOTHING BUT thoughts and prayers to, over and over and over.
When will they act?
If it were a Muslim terrorist there would be actions, but another white Christian terriorst like the man who shot and killed 57 people at a music festivaL IN Las Vegas, all these families get are GOP “ thoughts and prayers”.
ENOUGH.
3
Just another day in America. Yawn. Don't y'all know there's a mass shooting every day in this country? It's truly NBD at this point. Move along. There'll be another.
1
We can pour all our outrage into the comments sections of any and all liberal news paper but save your energies and anger. It won't move the needle.
We are at a point where even responsible gun owners want more regulation. We are not going to get it--and you want to know why? Because MONEY speaks louder than thoughts and prayers. We can think whatever we want. We can pray to whomever we want. It accomplishes absolutely nothing.
We need to vote Republicans out of office.
We also need to donate to the Brady Campaign and to other lobbies that oppose guns.
......and we need to take the facts to the few people who still do not see the sheer MADNESS of defending the second amendment.
How free do you feel, really, if you can't go to the mall without looking over your shoulder? How free do you feel when a concert, a city street, a supermarket, a church, your schools and your workplaces don't feel safe?
You know what I count on the most to keep me safe? My address in a blue state.
1
When mass shootings happened under Obama, Trump said that "bad leadership" caused all these shootings. Well?..............
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Who will lead us to a better future without guns? Who is capable of this? You? Me? Politicians? America?
26… what a wimp! Couldn't even match the 58 in Vegas.
When's the next NRA mass shooting class… these guys need some proper instruction in the use of their AR-15s.
Any bids for 100? Sounds like a nice round number for thoughts and prayers.
Speaking of which, during the Santa Rosa fire, I tried to buy 24 bottles of water for a few hundred thousand thoughts and prayers but was informed by the cashier that I needed $3.99… plus tax. Really put those thoughts and prayers into perspective for me.
2
Once again a mass shooting in the US , why am I not surprised !!! All the prayers
in the world is not going to stop this carnage from happening again . Americas unhealthy attachment for the right to bear arms will not change , the constitution was written when the young country had no army and the only had muskets .
I feel sad for the victims , but your culture will not change and the politically will to control guns is not there . Will the US ever ask the question why other countries do NOT have these mass shootings , I doubt if they will .
Pity is what I feel for my American neighbours now. We are clearly not perfect here in Canada, but your country is really starting to frighten many people. No sane non-American expects America to give up it's guns and violent nature. May God have mercy on your country.
The NRA doesn't "believe anything," except that they must faithfully serve as a front for the arms trafficking industry while whipping their membership into a frenzy. This is all about $$.
2
Just another day in merikkka; NRA is happy; the governor of Texas rolls out his insane recommendation to carry loaded guns to church. What is wrong with this picture? Everything!
2
Oh wait, citizens with guns stopped this guy? Who knows where he was going next. Im thankful that they courageously stepped in to take down this guy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no NRA member. I'm just saying that these guys were super brave to take on a dude with a ballistic vest and assault rifle.
Second Amendment? Amend it again. Im pretty sure this guy wasn't a member of a 'well regulated militia'.
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The Second Amendment doesn't say the "right of militiamen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."