The holistic admissions process has many faults. Affirmative Action is not enough for institutions to diversify campuses... more needs to be done. If you think that admissions is fair think about the top universities prioritizing "legacy" students and student athletes. Higher Education needs to drastically change. This is why I'm focusing on obtaining my masters in higher ed! We need a drastic change from a young & modern view point! Out with the old, and in with the new!
The college process is extremely unfair. For example, colleges claim they want to be diverse, so they choose students of a specific race over others of a different race. The truth is, race should not have to do with anything, especially being accepted into college. A hypocritical college will claim that racism will not be tolerated in the school, yet that very college will single out student applicants due to their race. The examples of race and gender in the admissions process are uncontrollable factors that should not be considered in deciding who gets into college. No student has the ability to decide how they are born. Additionally, a student should be looked at as how well they are rounded in life rather than just as how well they take a test. One test should not decide the future of someone. In turn, colleges should find better ways to measure merit. A student cannot control their race but can, however, have the choice as to how much they help others and how much effort they put into their success. The accomplishments and tasks performed should questioned on admission documents…not the color of one’s skin.
3
I think the college admissions process is anything but fair. Colleges continuously only look at ACT/SAT scores and(no longer or) grades. I understand, and agree, that at the end of the day, the college wants a smart person into their college, but what about students who are bad test takers? They're not usually accepted, and most definitely don't get scholarships. What about people who cant afford these standardized tests? We as a society say that the standardized test are a need yet we make them very expensive. When you're living in poverty and cant afford rent, how could you pay for these tests just so you can have a CHANCE to go to the school you want. Then, to fill out an application alone is expensive as well! What if these students living in poverty have the cure for cancer? We would never know because we don't even make tests to go to school accessible. Its disappointing.
I think colleges should make an effort to increase diversity on campus. Diversity is important! If there isn't an effort to mix up different races on campus, soon segregation will occur naturally. We don't want that at all! Minorities continuously are given less opportunity simply because of who they are. An opportunity they are deprived from is equal representation in colleges. It is the colleges responsibility to make an effort to stop that! Also, a way to add diversity colleges is to read what I wrote above and apply it! Quit making college only accessible for rich students and make it for anyone!
1
In my opinion, the college admission process is discriminatory. Colleges are run like a business. You could almost compare them to our government, but instead of spending too much money they ask for too much money. In the article it says that the admissions process favors the wealthy that can pay an outrageous price for college. Colleges look at the 16% that can easily pay, and almost disband the 60% that will need extra help. Colleges love community service, and if you don’t have community service on your application it is frowned upon. It is difficult for lower income family teens to get community services hours. A lot of teens have part-time jobs, and have to take care of siblings while parents are working. Community service is just looked past in some households, because of their busy schedules, which in turn, they are looked past as a candidate for their school.
1
The college admissions process is not fair, but not necessarily because of ethnicity or wealth, but by discriminating against the differing types of intelligence. According to the article, colleges mostly take into account grades and other academic related activities. However, I can argue that there is a more to an individual than a SAT score and GPA. While, all of these measurements of intelligence are fantastic to put on your resume, colleges tend to ignore emotional intelligence such as how an applicant interacts in a group/work environment, their creativity, or their determination. Today, schools and applicants have forgotten about the arts where students can be expressive and allow for their personality to shine through. These are characteristics that cannot be determined through the SAT or any other standardized test, but are essential to how an individual may be successful after college.
We believe the college admission process is unfair because it gives priority to those students that have more socioeconomic power and who are white. Colleges can improve their process by looking at a person's record and applications to see how hard they worked to see how they got there. Schools should base their admittance on grades and test scores alone, not on how much money someone has or their race. We have differing opinions on whether schools should look at your background records in order to admit you. On the one hand, some students work really hard all four years of high school and should be given a chance to prove themselves. On the other hand, some students do poorly on tests or might have had a life situation that caused them to do badly in school, and how could they have a chance to explain that without being interviewed? We think colleges should be more diverse in their admission process and look beyond people's social class. And beyond what they look like physically....their race.
Personally speaking, I find some parts of the college admissions process fair and other parts very unfair. I think the fact that many colleges take into account extracurricular activities is very helpful to students who may not be the best academically. Although they may not have high grades in school, they may have some kind of unique talent or skill that would be a shame for colleges to miss.
However, the unfair part of the college admission process would definitely involve how many colleges "add" or "subtract" from SAT scores based on race or ethnicity. This applies in particular to Asian Americans, who often need to score a hundred points higher than white Americans to receive the same consideration from a college. I understand the need for racial diversity in colleges; however, this "subtracting" of points from the scores of Asian Americans can be considered almost hypocritical in nature.
I think this is reflective of a cultural issue, where America has the tendency to view Asian Americans as a model minority. Many Americans seem to express the belief that because Asian Americans are just as well off or even better off than white Americans, they cannot really be considered the subjects of racial discrimination. However, the college applications process is proof of a subtle kind of racial discrimination hiding behind a facade of creating "diversity".
1
At the very top 15 colleges the competition is crazy. My son and I went to a MIT information session. In my words they have 20,000 brilliant applicants with 100 or close to a 100 average all with great SAT/ACT scores. They look at every aspect of your application and then choose students that represent the world and bring something back to MIT.
When you have 20,000 of the most brilliant kids in the US and the world all trying to get in there is no way to say the final class is not fair.
One problem I have noted is the difference between alpha scoring high schools versus numeric. I think alpha scoring does not offer the kind of distinction between a high A+ and a low A+ like a numeric system does. It may be a disadvantage for some students at alpha scoring schools when trying to get into elite colleges!!! Not to mention extra points offered in numeric scoring for honors and AP classes.
I saw a young man who had great SAT scores with a 4.45 GPA. This looks like a low A+ average in alpha scoring and the young man was denied admissions to the school he wanted. He claimed bias being denied. The school that turned him down a low A+ was not a grade that would have you in the running to be admitted. He had almost a perfect SAT but the alpha scoring system his high school used worked against him.
In reality in applying for the top 15 colleges it is a crapshoot. You do everything you can and the bottom line is you can get a great education at a top 100 college.
2
Today's educational admission system needs dramatic change. However, nothing will change that colleges are a business that must fit their personal requirements in order to make a profit. The socioeconomic diversity and financials -some of which include how able is a student to paying their loans/costs to the college- are two of many playing factors in the college selective system. I am in agreement with the article's statements of the change of college and it's selection process is vital un which for anything to change must be at the top. Top meaning, some of the most selective college's selection process in the nation "...enroll more students from the top 1 percent of the income ladder than from the bottom 60 percent..." My opinion is this very process calls for a dramatic change in the very nature of colleges becoming more of a learning institution than a business needing to meet it's requirements to gain a profit.
The current admissions process to colleges is incredibly unfair. Students are judged based on race and parental connections when they should be defined by their test scores, academic achievements, and extracurricular service. While test scores are important, a student with a higher GPA should be admitted over a student with a perfect SAT score. Likewise, out of two students with the same GPA and same test scores, the one with more extracurricular participation should be accepted, as they are believed to have more life skills.
I think that the college admissions process is fair to a certain extent. I don't believe that anything is "truly 100% fair," but I do understand that colleges are trying to make it as fair as possible. Even though some kids will not be able to get into their lifelong dream school, you cannot expect colleges to let everyone in in the first place. That would be completely unrealistic, so of course they'd set up a bunch of strict guidelines to help them make cuts. I don't think that personal attributes should come into play here, as it would simply take up way too much time to go through every single applicant on a personal level. Although, I do think that colleges should try to make the effort to increase diversity.
If all men and women are born equal, they shouldn't be imposed of different admission standards when they apply for college just because they have different color or race. Who work harder, who study harder, who make better academic performance, who should go to better colleges. The current college admission system, which is based on the racial quote, is extremely discriminating.
1
How do you know that the current admissions process for colleges consider race and ethnicity over academic achievement? Any sources?
Nowadays the admission process to get into colleges is kinda unfair. It can let people who don’t really deserve a chance in college because their parents gave money to the school and has their name on the building, while people who work really hard to get their, whether it’s by applying early and getting their admission stuff turned in early or they worked hard and got all A’s and B’s during their school year, as well as getting a very good SAT score. I think they should cut back the admission rate for school known attendants or a sports players, so that people who work hard to get their has a better chance. They should also include a person's personality, ethnicity, race, and services to others because it can help show the type of student you’re allowing to come into your school and make an image for the college. Colleges should increase socioeconomic and allow different ethnicities because it allows people to include everyone. To do this, colleges could make rules or bans for hate speech, so it can help lesson the amount of hate on campus.
The problem with affirmative action is the concept and use of "disparate impact." Basically, the underrepresentation of a population "proves" discrimination. Therefore, racial identity carries far more weight than socio-economic status in admissions decisions.
1
In the US, almost every document has a spin on the line ,"all men are created equal." However, with college apps you can see a clear gap in SAT and ACT scores have a clear disparity. On the ACT, asians have a 2.6 point higher average then the next highest. On the SAT, asians again are the highest with a disparity of 140 points over the whites. With asians never discriminating against others in the US. I ask this question, why are asian americans held to higher standards? If all people are equal why do we have to do better to achieve the same things. Dtudies show in a race neutral system asian admissions would rise by 6 percent and the african american would decrease by 21%. This shows a bias in the system that should be addressed.
2
In my opinion, I do not believe that college admissions are fair due to the fact of how closely colleges pay close attention to grades alone. A student has much more to offer than what any number or letter could symbolize and should not represent how capable an applicant is. I personally think that colleges should take a student’s personal talents they posses into account rather than only looking at how well they can perform on a standardized test. Colleges should not look for another student who is just willing to memorize a series of textbooks and material that has already been covered, but rather to seek those who are able to make new advances in our society. I also believe that there should be more methods of displaying a student’s skills such as videos or auditions so that applicants may demonstrate their strengths in a way that suits them best. However, I do not believe that any of these methods should necessarily be required since it may cause more stress than needed for those who may feel anxious when being recorded or are met face to face with someone for an audition. Colleges should find more ways to have more diversity on their campuses since having students from vastly different cultures could provide new perspectives that could not have been shared if everyone came from similar backgrounds.
Sending out college applications is a very stressful process for every high school student. They always worry if their grades are good enough to get them into the top school or if they have done enough community service. In my opinion, the college admissions process is somewhat fair. I believe that the SAT scores should be optional. Some students are not good at test taking even though they have good grades in school. Also, the student may not be having a good day or feeling well, and they have to try to push all of that aside when they take the test. The SAT is expensive for some students so they can only take it once and have to send in that one score. Others have the ability to keep taking the test over and over again to improve their score. By making this process optional, the students get to decide if they want to show the colleges their score or not. If they decide to opt out of sending in their scores, the students should not be seen any differently than the students who send in their scores. The colleges should look at the grades that they received in high school and the level of difficulty. On the other hand, I see the other side of this argument, that everyone is taking the same exact test so they can compare the scores to one another. On the topic of alumni helping the student get in, I believe that it should benefit the student. Many alumni give back to the schools through donations and the colleges should recognize that they are supporting their alma-mater.
I feel like the college admission process is mostly fair. Personally, I like the fact that admissions officers look at more than someone’s grade point average (GPA). They also account for someone’s extra curricular activities or after school jobs. They understand that students have lives too. Some students work to help support their families. Others are so involved in clubs and sports that they spend the rest of the time they have in their day to study and work.That is why a 4.0 student with no extra curriculars may not be accepted while someone with a 3.6 and extracurriculars would.
Competitive colleges are trying to put together an entire class with different strengths which means multiple criteria for admission.
There are different buckets. It's not just academics. There are athletes (men and women), orchestra, literary journals, music, classics, artists, opera singers, different majors, etc. that are desired to create a robust experience for everyone.
Asians compete in the academic buckets and certain majors while neglecting many other buckets. The result isn't surprising when there are only a limited number of great pianists and violinists interested in science that a school can accept. Even in a symphony, other instruments are needed.
One of the most coveted admissions accomplishments is a Likely Letter from a coach. Being competitive at Division 1 sports and having strong academic ability (within one standard deviation below the class median) can earn a Likely Letter for acceptance. Many Asians are discouraged from spending the time to be great athletes. As a result, they have great academics but limited uniqueness compared to other Asian applicants.
Colleges also want people who impact their communities after they leave. To help the inner-city, reservations, and rural communities, they need to admit from there even with weaker academics. And all colleges are looking for promising candidates who are the first in their families to attend college.
I feel that the college administration is fair. Every college is going to pick the students that they think that will best fit their school. The colleges are looking for what kinds of classes that you took, they aren't always looking for the grades you got. They are looking for what kinds of courses you took and to see what you would best fit in, in their school. Every college is going to look for something different. If you don't like what a college has to say then go somewhere else.
The process of college admissions is one of the most stressful processes that an individual undergoes in life, and it is not appropriate for an aspiring student's race, religion, sexuality, or gender to have great amounts of influence in this process. Determining a student's worth is a process that should be as objective as possible to ensure that a student's work ethic, and academic/athletic/artistic excellence is seen through the same lens as every other student's accomplishments. Standardized test scores are an efficient way to determine a student's academic ability, but I believe that this measurement has taken on too much weight in the admissions process. It is my firm belief that this set of digits should be compiled with letter grades and Grade Point Average to asses a student's work. Too often does one hear of a fantastic student who fell victim to a poor SAT session and subsequently scored poorly on the test, and is not attending their dream school that they were a "shoe-in" to. Too often does one hear of a lesser student who miraculously scored a 1600 on the SAT, and is now attending a nationally acclaimed university. I also believe that, while campus diversity is valuable, but it is not something that colleges themselves should attempt to foster. In a perfect world, the equal opportunities for individuals of all races and religious will allow for campus diversity based solely on the merit of students who earn entry into the college.
The college admission process is certainly unfair for Asian students. Asians were historically discriminated against - Chinese slaves building the railroads; Japanese Americans internment, etc. Why does affirmative action not applied for Asian college applicants? Why must an Asian student score 140 points more than a white student in SAT to get a similar chance for admission? We are penalizing Asian students for being diligent and intelligent. We are precluding them from realizing the fullest of their potentials at the detriments of the society. We were taught to that everyone is born equal, but Asian students realize that non-Asian students are more equal than them. Racial consideration in college application must go.
6
I don't have a problem with pro "diversity" policies in admissions. I also don't have a problem with personality and other kinds of non standard assessments of student potential.
I do have a problem with implicit and explicit racism. The idea that Asian students do well on tests and grades yet cannot distinguish themselves as individuals or artists seems racist to the core and very similar to the justifications directed at Jewish students in the 20s to 40s at these East Coast institutions. Or the idea that having more Asian students do not contribute to the diversity of a classroom is also ridiculous.
We know that many ex-admissions officers openly admit to viewing Asians stereotypically (see Daniel Golden's excellent book for example on affirmative action e.g.). We also know that when prestigious colleges get rid of policies that favor certain other groups Asian numbers go up dramatically such as in Berkeley after Prop. 209. There is overwhelming evidence that Asians must score higher than whites and other groups just to have equal standing in the admissions process. Asians must face not only the discrimination that other groups face but also additional ones too and often cultural and language barriers. How is disadvantaging the disadvantaged minority group contributing to diversity and a more just classroom environment?
11
I don't think the college admissions process is as fair as it could be. I don't believe that race should be put on a college application. It opens up the door for discriminatory practices, intentional of otherwise. I don't believe that your family or any personal relations should have an impact on whether or not you get in. I believe that the college admissions process in need of reform.
In my opinion, the college admission process is not fair. I don't think that admissions should be based off what they are based off of now; test scores and grades. A student could be just as smart as another, but simply not a good test taker. I do believe that test scores and grades are important and should not be looked over, but are not the most important factor in the admissions process. An applicants personality and morality are very important. A college should be choosing respectable students that they would want in their classrooms and students who want to learn. I think that colleges need to get a feel for who the applicant is as a person and not just how good of a test taker they are. I think that interviews should be mandatory so that the schools can see what types of people they are choosing to represent their school. This could be a disadvantage because many students will be extremley nervous about these interviews and could cause them to not act as their true self infront of their interviewer which could in turn affect whether or not they get into that school.
Colleges should most definitaly make an effort to increase racial diversity on their campuses, but not purposfully choose someone over their race just for this sole purpose. I think that every applicant should be looked at as equal regardless of race and if the racially diversity does not increase that that is okay because each applicant had an equal chance of getting into the school.
The admission process is very difficult, many people have different views on what is considered for and unfair for colleges to base their admissions on. However, I believe that the admissions process is about as fair as it can be. For example, if one applicant does bad on the SAT, but really well on the ACT, that applicant is going to want the college to value the ACT more than the SAT, however if a student does well on the SAT and bad on the ACT they are going to want colleges to value the SAT more. The problem is one applicant is always going to be left unhappy, and their really is no way around it. In my personal opinion, I believe that colleges should try to value tests and grades as equally as possible when it comes to admissions, however if it is close, I think colleges should look into the personal characteristics of a person to see what they good at and what their not in order to see who will fit into their school best. I think it is unfair for some colleges to use race as the deciding factor because while it is important all races are given equal opportunity to get post-secondary schooling, certain races should not be given the upper hand in the application process just because of the color of their skin. Applicants should be judged on their merit and colleges should not accept one race more than others to create a more diverse student base schools should try to accept applicants based on their achievements as much as they can.
In my opinion, I believe the college admission process is not fair because they have been looking at the same attributes of students forever and if a student does not have these certain attributes then they would have a harder time getting into college. I think that colleges could improve this process by not focusing so much on the grades because they are just numbers. Instead they should look more at a person’s work ethic or personality. In addition, grades are not even close to enough for a college admission to decide whether a student gets in or not. Some specific colleges are known for their racial diversity like Harvard. However I believe that not all colleges should strive for racial diversity because that lessens the opportunity for American citizens for getting into college.
The process of college admissions can be difficult, and can have its pros and cons in fairness. Each college should have a straight mindset on what type of student they want to enter their college each year. Colleges should look at the overall GPA that students have had over their years in high school. They should also look at their life outside of high school with any volunteer work they have done, or a the type of person they are in the workforce. Colleges shouldn’t weigh the ACT or the SAT so high when looking at applicants due to just one test these students have taken over the course of their whole high school career. They should also want to be looking at each applicant's character because that is the overall look the college will have is the student’s behavior. There shouldn’t be a video audition because colleges will simply would not have enough time to view them all. I can understand why colleges look at race or religions on determining an applicant's approval due to wanting their colleges more like the world we live in today. Yet that is racial profiling which in other areas isn’t correct in our society.
When collages come to our attention we may see it as unfair but to simply put it collage is not like public school where everything is free for students. collage cost more to run which means they have to charge more. but when it comes to grants and scholarships there is a system that they go through in a certain order that may be to dangerous for them to change
I think colleges rely too much on test scores and someone's GPA. Other than that, I think the admission process is fair. Not only do the check your grades, classes, and test scores, they like to see what you do outside of school, like sports and clubs. I think they should look at the recent work the student has done, rather than things from freshman and sophomore year. Having bad grades those two years and all A's and B's your senior and junior year could affect you chances of getting into colleges a lot more than one would think. It ruins your GPA and many chances to get into colleges over classroom mistakes you've had as a young student. Things like studying and note taking skills. Colleges should consider the applicants personal attributes like sports, clubs and activities outside of school. This will show that the applicant does or does not do many other things besides school work. College applications should not require more than they already do unless they really need to know more about the student. They could send in a video like audition. An advantage of this would be so that the college really knows you. A disadvantage requiring more to a college application is that some students just don't have the time. Some students play sports, work and still go to school. I think colleges should not make any efforts towards different races that goes to their schools. If they were to take off the part of the application that asks what race you are, there would be no difference.
The colleges are fair to those who are able to pay the high prices to be apart of the university which are difficult for people that can't afford those price especially if your parents can't help pay for them. I think there should be some way to help those type of people out so they can have a chance at a great future as well. I'm not asking to let them in but lower the cost so it is affordable for what the family can afford. The grade and test are a bed way to see what this kid can do because he or she might not be able to comprehend the book work but outside the classroom the can have skills that will never show in the classroom. High schools should have some sort of classes that can test those kid in those skills like a wood shop class or an engineering class so the skills can be showed off. College should definitely make an effort to increase there diversity but it will have to be a group effort from the students and teachers to accept those changes. The colleges can start by looking at everyone application and don't look at what there just did in there math or SAT scores but to look more in depth in that student because he might want it more than that kid that gets a 4.0.
Throughout high school, don't we all dream of attending a great college? I feel as though it can be exceptionally hard to get into some schools because they may not always focus on the right things for their acceptance criteria. I believe that universities should look more at things the students have done outside of school and look more into what kind of person they are rather than GPA and SAT scores. The essay portions of college applications are exceptional ways to showcase what kind of person you are, and I feel as though more students should use that to their fullest extent
In her opinion college applications are not fair, that students should not be accepted purely on grades and attendance. I feel that basing it on someones grades is fair, it shows how hard working that person is to a degree. If they want to go to college they will work hard for it by getting good grades. Perhaps colleges should only accept someone who is fully covered by scholarships or maybe they should make students pay more for college so they can learn what it means to be in debt. Colleges have standards they want every student to live up to, so it is definitely fair. But I feel that college is a waste of time. It teaches something that anybody can learn over the internet, the only difference being the large debt and a certificate that says 'Here you completed these courses in college, congratulations!'. College admissions may be unfair to some people but college as a whole is unfair and way out of date.
I don’t think the college admissions process fair isn’t really fair. Yes some parts what they do are fair. Many people are not getting recognized by their talents. They should improve by listen to people and actually be fair to students. I think grades and test scores are important. They do show what your strengths and weaknesses are. They also ask what students are better at instead of looking at one bad grade and not accept them.
The college admission has been under a lot of scrutiny over if its system is fair or not. In my opinion, it’s 110% fair. Scoring well on the SAT or the ACT is a priority must for getting into a good college. Being academically fit would also give you a better chance of entering in a Division One or Division Two school.
Unfortunately not for Asian students who must score 140 points in SAT higher that their white counterparts to get similar admission consideration. The score gap gets even higher when compared to other minority applicants. Asian is a minority and have equally suffered discriminatory treatments historically, why the bar is so much higher for Asian students? That is unfair.
5
I believe that the college admissions process is unfair for multiple reasons. Firstly, I don't believe that alumni's children should have an "automatic" in at certain colleges. I don't think that children whose parents have donated money to the college should automatically get in either. Obviously you have to pay for your education but I don't believe that you should be able to buy your way into college. I think that colleges shouldn't base their admissions off of things dealing with monetary value, they should consider students who are smart and well-rounded, not just ones with wealthy parent contributors. Colleges should consider grades, test scores, and extracurricular activities of the individuals applying to college. Personal attributes, ethical character, and service to others should be considered as well. Traits like this help contribute to a more well-rounded successful student, and help create the student body more well rounded as well. I think essays are a good monitor for colleges as well, you can express yourself and thinking process through writing a paper. I think it is important to have a diverse student body, but I don't think that colleges should have to put special effort into creating a more diverse application pool. If you are smart you are smart, regardless of your race or income. I don't think that should automatically get you into college, since everyone goes through the same application process and takes the same tests, writes the same essays, etc.
I think the college admissions process is fair. I think that there are enough colleges in the world and each college holds enough people to accept a lot of students. I think that by sending your transcript, test scores and being able to provide your extra curricular activities, the college administrator knows enough about you to be able to tell what kind of student you are. I don't think there needs to be anything more that goes along with a college application. Yes, I do think colleges should make an effort to increase socioeconomic issues on campus and I think they should do this by accepting students from all over the world. Which they already do. I also think they should do activities in classrooms and after class hours to bring students together.
I personally think that the admission process is fair. Every college has their own criteria that they are looking for in future students. It isn't just about someone's GPA but rather what they have done in their classes as well as outside of school that can show what type of person/student they aim to be. Every school is different for what they want in a student/ One college may not accept one, while another will. Some colleges do more in their applications, some don't. It is all in the hands of the person to show their skills and use their determination to get into the school that they would like.
You are right, but unfortunately Asian students are required to jump a significantly higher academic bar to get the "fair" admission considerations you described. It is a myth that Asian students are not active outside the school. Many of them are in leadership positions and do a lot of charity work. But the sad part is such activities will not be given a fair assessment unless the Asian student score significantly higher than a non-Asian student. That is not fair.
3
I believe that the college admissions system is not fair nor equal. There are colleges where they will only accept students who get a perfect ACT or SAT score, a 4.0 GPA, and etc. While some students who don't meet those requirements want to aspire their dreams and be what they want, they won't be able to go to the school they want to go to because they're not the "ideal student" that the college is looking for. Colleges should be looking at how much their grades have improved over the years, their attendance, and what they have participated in. Admissions shouldn't be all about being perfect because there are kids out there who are going through a rough time or they aren't as familiar with getting tutored or getting the experience they need, while others are. Even though there are things that I do not agree with at all, I do understand why colleges want a student who works hard, rather than someone who doesn't show up to school. I also believe that colleges should increase racial diversity on campus because it is always interesting and fun when there are new people that you can meet and learn about. I hope that one day colleges can lower down their standards for students and hopefully they can achieve their goals.
I think the college admission process is fair because colleges want students who are good in the classroom but who are also active in the community. I think colleges already look at more than just grades I feel that they look at everything about you from your background to your traits. Colleges are already allowing all different kind of races on campus.
I think that college admission is not fair because they don't pick the ones that have the creativity and hard work ethic they pick the ones who do the best on there test which someone could be failing the class but get a good grade on there test and they would want them in the college and someone else could be getting a good grade in the class but mess up on the test and then they won't want them to go to there school because they don't look smart
The college admissions process is 100% fair. Every college has their own idea of what they want in a student, and they are going to cater to that. If people don't like it, they can go to a different college. If a school wants an athlete, they should be able to accept that athlete. Every school has standards, so if you are what they are looking for, then congrats. If not, go somewhere else.
If a school is looking for only white students? If one is only looking for Asian student? Especially when a college receives some form of State or Federal subsidies, they owe the society an explanation of what their admission policy is.
1
College admissions is not fare, equal, or just. American colleges are a business based on a business model. They demand high prices and depend on wealthy students or federal loans for their payment. Many students are competing for few merit-based scholarships. Absolutely socioeconomic factors come into play for a student who wants to go to college. If Mommy or Daddy can't pay the exorbitant fees American colleges charge, then students have to qualify for scholarship or borrow from the fed and help feed into a 1.2 trillion dollar industry. As far as race discrimination goes I am sure it exists, as it exists in many other businesses in America. I'm not sure why it would be logical to think it would be exempt from an industry that is based on corporatism. How to improve the process of getting ourselves into the American college institution? The fairest thing,after of course we all have achieved our 5.0 GPA, aced the standardized testing built for robots, played the sports we suck at, and volunteer what little free time we have left, would be to interview us. Do we have any individual thought, drive or passion left to offer their fine establishment? Maybe once we achieve what the American collegiate wants, (financial success or fame) and give back as donors, maybe just maybe, we can purchase for our children their college education at the same fine American institution.
It seems like a lot of people have this idea that if you are not white you have a much higher chance of getting into a top-tier university and an easier time securing a scholarship, when in fact the opposite is true. As a recent NYT article points out, "Black students are just 6 percent of freshmen but 15 percent of college-age Americans." The same article goes on to explain that inequality has been increasing over the last 35 years as affirmative action has increased, with proportionately fewer Black and Hispanic students attending top universities. Looking at these facts, how can we consider the current college admissions process fair? And how can we claim color blindness and judging people based on the content of their character is valid when clearly racism is alive and well, in the admissions process and elsewhere?
Colleges should look more holistically at applications, considering factors like GPA and SAT scores along with personal attributes and service to others. As others point out, college is about more than just classroom learning. A lot of learning happens between peers. This enrichment requires student diversity; how can a student learn from peers just like them? We know that someone's zip code determines so much of their lives, including quality education. Many young people have the cards stacked against them when considering colleges. We should account for biases and unfair disadvantages in admissions.
- Current Columbia grad student
Universities, as social institutions, have an imperative to make up for centuries of systemic disenfranchisement against people of color. Reading an application contextually means recognizing this; that a student of color will not have had the same opportunities as a white student. Arbitrary factors of identity and place are more likely to be deterministic of the type of education someone is able to get past anything else. This means no matter how wide you cast the net, race and ethnicity will have been a factor regardless of whether it is explicitly considered in the admissions process. It would be a worse injustice to ignore this, and simply assume that marginalized groups are expected to work harder, than to have an affirmative action scheme that sacrifices the perception of meritocracy. How can you even call for a meritocracy when none ever existed in the first place?
Affirmative action schemes right now are not perfect. Underprivileged Asians from immigrant communities are judged as a model minority despite their own obstacles to equal opportunity and incredible internal diversity within the group.
Asian Americans have been placed as a wedge group to suppress racial justice. As an Asian American student, I reject the narrative that opportunity for some must be equivalent to less opportunity for others. And at the very least, I reject willful ignorance to the barriers that perniciously impede a very basic ability to even participate in the application process.
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Although many have pointed out that colleges involve academics much more than sports, community service, and other extracurriculars, colleges still should use as a guide for admissions involvement in these activities. Each year, millions of students apply for multiple colleges, with many applicants touting extremely competitive standardized testing scores and high GPAs. Admissions officers must comb through thousands of applications each year and decide which students to cross from the list of entry. Extracurriculars are an expedient way to do that. Let’s say, in a hypothetical situation, an admissions officer must choose between two students. One, as another commenter puts it, “is smart and trying their best in high school, but [...] did not do sports or clubs” because he or she “can’t handle it.” The other, let’s say, got the exact same marks but is able to participate in sports and other after-school activities. To me, the officer definitely should pick the latter student. If a student is trying their best and can only manage a good grade, without being able to help their community or participate in a sport, that simply means their best is not enough. They do not deserve a spot in a highly-selective college if other, more involved students are also competing for it.
I agree. Colleges want to admit students who can perform well in terms of multiple dimensions, such as creativity and work ethic, not just in the type of intelligence measured by grades.
I agree with you, but the problem here is many Asian students who are equally active in community service as other students are not given a fair chance because being the model minority, they need to score substantially higher SAT to even get the admission considerations you mentioned. And there is a prejudice that a student with high academic achievements cannot be at the same time creative or community oriented. That is a discriminatory stereotype against Asian students, among others.
An incident happened earlier this week where we found 2 students fascinated their extracurricular activities in the common application. They said they are in the crew team for 4 years and are captains. In fact, they were only Registered for a year and never raced in a regatta. When confronting the school guidance counselor, he /she told the student to "forget about it". this high school does not require club advisor or coach to sign off on student's activities; therefore, students can put whatever they want on the application without any consequences. Since colleges practice "holistic " method, every factors on the application counts. In my opinion, high school need to have accountability on what will be on students 'application, students needs to have action their academic records and then we can at least work on something that are honest and accurate.
In any society, if hard work from childhood to adult has no reward, the society will have no future.
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The ones need to be helped and give extra care are the economically under privileged students, not by race. How could you educate students that all human are created equal and try your best, while in college admission, you give privilege to certain skin color. It is racial discrimination.
Grades are actually the relatively fairest measurement among all available measurements.
Science is the hard core of our national strength that makes us the strongest nation in the world,. If we want to keep our advantage, you simply cannot place racial quota in science related subjects admissions. Otherwise, we may lose our advantage in the world. Our nation needs bright talents, please do not waste them!
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"Science is the hard core of our national strength that makes us the strongest nation in the world." That is the most concerning part of affirmative action/racial quotas.
IT IS NOT FAIR AT ALL. Totally agree with Daniel Zhang's comments above. " We have been taught for years that all races are equal. But, when we compete for college admission, not all races are equal. Asian American students have to score on average 140 SAT points more than white students to have an equal opportunity of admission. The gap is even greater between Asian American students and African American students. Asian Americans never treated African Americans or whites unfairly historically or presently, why are they penalized in college admission? Whoever tells me that all races are equal should answer this question first."
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Colleges planning to increase diversity? It sounds like a great concept but you shouldn't have diversity where it isn't accepted. Unfairness exists in the admissions process with all of its double standards for students from different backgrounds. Those who don't belong to the 'desirable' category, in terms of race, income, color, etc. are marginalized. Seems to me a problem that can never be solved.
1
This country has given up merit based system. Nobody cares to select the brightest minds, give them financial / social support, so they can bring greatness to the future. Instead a big chunk in the admission pie has been given to the legacies, so that the class barrier solidifies further and forever. Then more and more none-merit related chunks were given out for social activities, sports etc. ... It's hard to argue what is fair and what is not, yet the sure consequence is American's future is at risk. It's hard not to see how other countries are putting all efforts to get the best out of the limited resources, with much deeper sense to survive and stronger desire to thrive. God bless America.
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Of course it is unfair. Rich kids, and kids of socalled underrepresented skin colors, have way too much advantages over regular kids.
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I grew up and finished my primary and secondary education in China, then went on to attend Stanford as an international student. I am currently a PhD candidate at Princeton.
As someone from an entirely different educational system, SAT scores do not seem to be a good indicator of "merit" (I scored around 2300; I cannot recall the exact number). Math was easy as hell, writing lacked depth, and critical reading was obvious too as long as I could recognize the English words involved; I do not recall much critical thinking involved. I would have got a near perfect score if I spent more time memorizing vocabulary, but how can that be a good measure of merit, especially for a math and physics major like me?
That said, if I have to rank SAT score, race (just race alone), and parental connections as contributing factors to admissions, the answer should be obvious, in that order; and using the SAT score is a lot more fair, for everyone, than the other two, so it probably should carry a lot more weight than the other two. There are of course many more factors that are easier said than evaluated, which I will not discuss here.
4
College is a very challenging thing to get into. When you are little, I feel all you think is that you have to just get good grades. Yet, as you get older, you realize that you have to compete in sports and do clubs. Things that colleges will like. However, I feel it's unfair to some kids that do not get selected. There can be a kid who is smart and trying their best in high school, but cannot get into the college they want to because they did not do sports or clubs; they were just there and got a grade. Colleges want kids who can do a large variety of things and keep their grades up. It's just that some people can't handle it. I feel that they should look for different things for different people. If people did not do sports and clubs or many of them, I feel they should mainly look at their grades. I feel that for athletes, they should look into how they kept their grades up while playing sports or doing clubs. I think that it should require a bit more than an essay, but not to much. I feel like they should make a short video on why they really want to go to that college. I also believe that colleges should make an increase racial diversity on their campus. I feel they should do this so people can learn more about another's culture from a different part of the world they might not know anything about. I think they could look for people who come from a different background than others, and try to include every race. That is my take on the college admission process.
As an Asian American student who has gone through the college admissions process, I find it disheartening that 64 Asian American organizations found it necessary to form a coalition to fight against the “injustice” of needing a higher SAT score to get into an elite school. If this is an effort to advance the Asian American community, what does it communicate about our values? Is admission into an elite college the only measure of success? Also, “injustice”? Using that term to describe the situation makes our community seem rather tone deaf to other societal problems around race.
I grew up among other children of immigrants in Southern California. How many of us, in pursuit of admission to the nation’s best colleges, cheated on tests and lied on our applications? How many of us engaged/are engaging in self-harm and/or struggle with anxiety and depression? I think our community could do with a little self-reflection in this regard.
Here’s what confuses me: Asian Americans make up 5.1% of the population. 22.2% of Harvard’s class of 2021 is Asian American. In light of that fact, could you still argue that Asian Americans are facing discrimination in a way that warrants litigation? Don’t get me wrong, going to a quality college/university is a worthy goal, but there are many “good schools” in the country that are not in the Ivy League. I would argue that one’s success is not measured by the name of the college on one’s resume, but what you do at said college and beyond.
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Being Asian bothered you too much. You forgot what Dr. Martin Luther King said, "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." Fair means fair by the content of people's character. Don't mix it with the color of skin."
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Grace, ignore Helen's silly personal attack. It is absurd to claim someone is somehow ashamed of their heritage because they disagree with your opinion.
The reason for litigation isn't whether Asians make up 22% or 2% but whether there is inequities in the selection.
When looking at the results of race blind admissions at Berkeley vs race conscious admissions at Ivies indicates there MAY be artificial constraints based on race.
Probably a large part of the difference is because UC doesn't do legacies anymore but wouldn't you want to see the statistics yourself so you could make your own assessment?
Especially given the less than stellar track record at Ivies in the past regarding race and admissions...
"doveryai no proveryai"
Folks forget the rich and long heritage of Asian Americans and that many of our civil rights successes in the Supreme Court have been in equal access to education.
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If you are really care about diversity, then let me tell you that Jews make up about 1.4% of the population, and more than 20% of students in elite schools. Why do asian students get penalized ? Give me a reason that it is not discrimination.
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What is an college? What are the primary tasks conducted in college? 90% or most part is about academics, is it not true? Don't pretend that college, especially undergraduate school, is a lot more than just academics. So what is wrong for putting academic track records as the biggest factor for admitting to a place set up largely for conducting academic activities? If a college curriculum itself is not made up of volunteer activities, social involvement etc. etc., why having the double standards to require an applicant to have all these? Or simply set up the curriculum so that everybody understands that college is really not just academics. By the way, making high school curriculum the same way. It's utterly hypocritic not to institutionalize the curriculums in a "hollistic" approach but emphasizing all the non academic stuff at time of admission. To me, it is corruption by the means of confusion.
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The primary task of college isn't 90% academics but 90% preparation for life.
Learning to work with others. Learning to network. Learning to manage time. Learning when to say no without mom and dad nearby. Learning to recognize when opportunity knocks.
If you go to an elite university and all you come out with is 90% academics you've wasted a huge opportunity to build a network of friends that will get you experiences (and jobs) your academic resume never will. That requires more than 10% of your effort and time.
The difference between an undergraduate degree from a solid state school and from an ivy isn't academics but the friends you make, the alumni network and the additional opportunities the ivy students enjoy from better internship opportunities, tech incubators and angel investors (aka alumni network).
These elite schools want their alumni to be nobel winners, tech leaders, federal judges, senators, etc.
Predicting who those will be from the pool of applicants isn't just a function of highest SAT scores and GPAs...
3
High school can be one of the most stressful things to be brought upon a student in their life, it can make or break them. Already, high school is stressful enough, but when you throw college admissions into a student's stress, the stress can become overwhelming. Admission processes at colleges aren't necessarily the most fair because they are mainly looking at a student's grades and not their character. Getting good grades and scoring high on the SAT's can be difficult and almost impossible to some. Colleges are judging a applicant by their grades and not what their real potential is, their personality. Personality and character should be a huge factor in college admissions, instead of grades or test scores. For example, someone with good grades could be an extremely negative person, or only have gotten grades when they cheated on tests. In reality, their college spot should be given to another student who has a balance of these qualities, not just their level of intelligence. Besides grades getting students into college, I do not think that colleges should make a huge effort to increase diversity on their campuses. Students should be accepted into a college based on their character, and in reality, one skin color is not different than the other. Overall, admissions to colleges are very stressful for a student and with all of the teenage stress in this day and age, colleges should lay loose for a bit.
I have an older sister who is going through the college admissions process so I have seen the behind the scenes of the application process. My sister stressed a lot about her SAT scores and I think that is not fair. When applying to college, students should be excited and eager to show the college their full potential and creativity. They should not be scared to apply to a college because they are worried they won't get in. As Alex Miller mentioned, essays are a great way for colleges to see the knowledge a student possess but also the style and character of the student. A student should not be judged by a number. I also think it would be important for admissions counselors to meet with the students so that they can meet the person rather than analyze them.
You are trying to mislead the question. Nobody is arguing GPA and test score alone should determine merit. There are many things can be counted as merit, but skin color probably are not one of them, I think Dr. Zwick would agree.
Then your second question equates or mixes social-economic status with race, tell me what social-economic status is Malia Obama?
So I would suggest students answer:
2. Do you think colleges should make an effort to increase socioeconomic diversity on their campuses? Why or why not?
3. Do you think colleges should make an effort to increase racial diversity on their campuses? Why or why not?
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Everyone dreams to go to college someday, to have a bright future, even the people who don't believe in themselves have a dream of a good future. Every college has different requirements that need to be meant to be admitted. Some admission processes are unfair like the article pointed out. These are the admissions that take in your gender, age, race, etc.. But the majority of colleges mainly take in the acedemics, community service, and sports into consideration for acceptence of the student. Yeah, sure sometimes colleges have an unfair requirement that you completely disagree with so either change it by writing letteres and standing up for what you believe in until you achieve your goal or look into other, better schools who meet your needs. I want to get into William & Mary University of Virgina, so I am trying my best and doing everything I like to do. All I can do is try my best and be happy with what I have achieved. If I spent everyday worrying about every single detail of every single thing, for example oh look at that, that letter is crooked, I need to fix it, I would be miserable. Students just need to keep in mind that as long as they try their best, they couldn't ask for anything more. There is more than one college out there and if your dream college doesn't except you based off something as silly as your skin color, then maybe they shouldn't be your dream college. Colleges should have all different cultures on their campus and choose outstanding indivisuals.
We have been taught for years that all races are equal. But, when we compete for college admission, not all races are equal. Asian American students have to score on average 140 SAT points more than white students to have an equal opportunity of admission. The gap is even greater between Asian American students and African American students. Asian Americans never treated African Americans or whites unfairly historically or presently, why are they penalized in college admission? Whoever tells me that all races are equal should answer this question first.
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As someone who has been on both sides of the process for top schools, it's my impression that these schools seek individuals with characteristics that indicate high ability, which can appear in many forms, from scoring high on SATs to outstanding achievement in a particular pursuit (e.g. sports). Occasionally, personal circumstances like growing up with one parent who is too busy at work can be mitigating factors for e.g. a lower test score. That being said, such idiosyncratic details shouldn't result in a systematic and persistent 140 point gap in a benchmark that is designed to measure overall intellect.
As for diversity, check out this Quarterly Journal of Economics study by Ahern and Dittmar (2012) on how diversity, when coerced by decree, can result in some really unpleasant outcomes. Although their work is conducted in a corporate setting, the same inference can still apply here. The real question is .... diversity, but at what cost?
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I think that the college admission process is fair and unfair depending on what is being talked about. What’s fair is that you have to get certain standards if you want to go to that college. What isn’t fair is that sometimes they don’t give students a chance to prove that college what they are capable of and their full potential. Something that is also fair is that they also look at the activities that you do out of school. They take consideration of what you do outside of school.
Throughout high school, don't we all dream of attending a great college? I feel as though it can be exceptionally hard to get into some schools because they may not always focus on the right things for their acceptance criteria. I believe that universities should look more at things the students have done outside of school and look more into what kind of person they are rather than GPA and SAT scores. The essay portions of college applications are exceptional ways to showcase what kind of person you are, and I feel as though more students should use that to their fullest extent.
Really depends on what you plan to study. If politics is gonna be the major, yes, outside school activities are great! But if you plan to be a doctor, a surgeon or an engineer, then GPA is way more important! Otherwise hospital morgue will be full and our space shuttle will be exploded on the ground!
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Cathy, you get my vote for best comment.