Business groups argue the "risk of putting the United States at a global disadvantage if it does not reduce the corporate tax rate to a level commensurate with other industrialized nations." How about the problem of business being at a global disadvantage because large businesses foot the bill for a significant part of their employee's health care insurance. Universal healthcare would improve US businesses competitiveness.
24
The article say the bill seeks to make the corporate tax “commensurate” with the rates in other industrialized nations. That is bad reporting. US corporations pay much less that many industrialized nations because of deductions and loopholes.
27
A Simple solution to all problems Republican: Weight every vote based on the voter's networth. A billionaire's vote is worth one billion points. A homeless person's vote is worth zero points. Don't forget. Corporations are people, people! The CEO casts the vote of a corporation and the vote is worth in points equal to the corporation's market cap at market close the day before the election day.
Voila! The Republican party will forever be in power. America will be a one party rule and yet be a democracy. All Republican problems solved. QED.
6
This headline is misleading:
Mathematics requires deep, intense thought, proof and reasoning.
Arithmetic requires adding and subtracting according the basic rules of numbers.
Republicans' problem is _arithmetic_, not math. The party long ago forsook thought, proof or reason when it comes to most issues, but especially when it comes to taxes.
26
As for the name of the Republican tax bill, the Times won't print anything that accurately and vividly describes it. Their rose-colored blinders prevent the Republicans from seeing the problems their constituents getting by on less than $75K/year have in making ends meet, let alone setting aside the recommended 10-15% of gross income that experts recommend as the minimum for retirement savings. Not only can they not see how their hard work will only burden the taxpayers more, their earplugs inure them to the cries for real tax relief for the middle- and lower middle-class voters.
There will be no town hall meetings by Republican legislators prior to their vote on this un-nameable boatload of sewage. They don't dare.
15
Let’s stop calling this “Tax Cuts.” It’s a HUGE LOAN they want!
They are trying to pass a loan. In my name! For a purpose I disagree with.
It’s like identity theft where someone gets money or goods fraudulently. And it irks me no end. How can it be that for NO GOOD PURPOSE a bunch of people, beholden to wealthy backers, take out a loan - to FLEECE ME - for the purpose of enriching their wealthy backers?
Let the wealthy get their own loans! I want no part of it!
The GOP is going to war against taxpayers. They are after the earnings of ordinary folk. Using tortured logic and pretense and manipulation. All to feather their own next electoral win. Certainly not for any type of service to the citizenry.
Now, if it were for Universal Healthcare, fine by me. If it were for Care of the Environment, wonderful. If it were to help the Rohisngya, they surely need it.
I am wiling to have my taxes go for worthy purposes. For human delopment, infrastructure, the Mueller investigation of our Fake ‘resident’, assistance to those made homeless by natural disasters or disabled due to atrocious terrorist acts.
But I refuse to pay for a LOAN to wealthy people - who can surely go out and get their own loans.
Get your own loans, GOP! Pay them off yourselves! Don’t burden me with your problems getting elected!
19
The problem is that this is a terrible very bad bill that will bankrupt America
The bill creates a new class of favored tax status for pass throughs, LLCs, S-Corps that allows them to earn millions and pay lower rates than salaried workers.
But that isn’t enough for this administration of vampire squids...to fund their egregious tax breaks they have to raise taxeable income on the same salaried workers by eliminating all of their deductions
It is beyond defensible - no one can sell this turkey to the American people...not even Donald Trump.
17
hows about the "Death by a Thousand Cuts Act"?
you can't fool us all. Republicans: we know your objective is not only to make the lining of the pockets the rich even more plush... but to starve the government of revenue so that it becomes a helpless, powerless shadow struggling at the bottom of a bathtub.
forget trying to eviserate the middle class by eliminating thing like deductions for local and real estate taxes. instead, try ideas like this:
for every % of reduction to the corporate tax rate, cut out a similar amount of money from the budget for new aircraft carriers, military planes, high tech secret weapons meant to fight the last war, and the costs of maintaining a worldwide police force.
for every % of reduction in the uppermost marginal tax rate, eradicate the revenue loss by increasing the % of taxes due on carried interest income.
Thanksgiving is coming, so let's really talk turkey about what you are trying to achieve and how you are willing to pay for it.
your whole backroom, party line deal is fowl!
6
So this is a tiny tax cut for the middle class and a nice juicy tax cut for wealthy corporations, who use deductions and loopholes to avoid paying that top 35% tax rate.
And the loss of revenue over the years will give Republicans an opportunity to cut social security and Medicaire.
If government is for the people, then this tax plan is a sham.
13
Who is going to pay for this tax cut? There is no such thing as a free lunch.
6
Why are Republican lawmakers ideas so inherently evil? Gutting the needed human dignities of health care to people of lesser means, education to people of lesser means, and retirement security to people of lesser means. All to strengthen the ability of wealthy people to yet be even more wealthy... how do these lawmakers look themselves in the mirror? I will never understand.
12
Does repealing the Johnson Admenment mean those Tax Exempt organizations will not only get more voice in politics but also loose that exempt status? That would be a win win as conservatives have been mouthing n injecting their religious feelings n leanings for some time and we'd get more tax revenue to apply to our deficit.
5
Let us try a simple one (1) page tax code. All transactions are taxed at 10% to be paid by the seller and deposited electronically within 12 hours of the transaction. All materials, products, services and income imported into the United States and its territories will be taxed at a flat 15% rate to be paid at the time of transaction. The Government of the United States is prohibited from spending more in current year spending than it collected the previous year in tax revenue.
1
Here is what the politicians of the Republican Party need: a course of basic Mathematics 101.
1
Gee, how to shoehorn yet more of the nation's productive capacity into the pockets of billionaires? We've stripped poor children of insurance. We can strip the middle class of health insurance and retirement security. Shoot! Not enough to eliminate estate taxes! Hmm. Food stamps? National parks? Something's gotta go! The rich are barely getting by!
10
In their zeal to eliminate the Johnson Amendment, Trump and the Republicans seem to have forgotten that it also applies to mosques.
6
Did even one Republican Congress person ask even one of the clothing designers who used to make their clothes here, or one of the fabric mills who supported many Southern towns, or one mid-west manufacturer if they are prepared to shut down their China factories, or their foreign plants and move back to the US to make their products here again if the corporate tax rate is lowered? And as for labor, what will their wages be if these plants do return to the US? $4 an hour? Almost none of those companies are coming back & Trumps base are never getting their jobs back. This Tax cut is all Fake. Trump lies. Sad.
4
RE: "Math Problem Bedevils Republican Tax Rewrite"
How hard can it be? Businesses and wealthy need a tax cut. Never you mind your little head over why cause we know better. They need $1.499 Trillion. Don't worry about the .001 trillion going to the "tax cuts for the middle class" that's not even real money and we'll just round it off.
So here is what you do, raise taxes on the middle class by $1.5 Trillion. There, math problem solved. Simple. And yes, the middle class will pay for the $ .001 Trillion going to the middle class as a result of their "tax cuts".
It's genius when you think about it.
2
Donald Trump has identified a person to blame. For him, that solves the one and only problem with tax cuts. Forget whether it is good, bad or indifferent. There is someone else to blame! Full steam ahead!
What a guy!
1
Our education system at work in Congress. They can’t do third grade math.
1
It is a reality problem, not a math problem
4
Watch out kids, the geezers have your credit card. And they’re not going to be around when that 0% introductory offer disappears and the bill comes due.
1
It's truly astounding that 1 plus 1 Still Equals Two,!...where did Ryan attend school or did he?
G.O.P.=====Greed Over Patriotism.
Remember all the deficit hawks in the Freedom Caucus?
But where is the Democratic alternative?
Instead of a tax cut, how about a raise (minimum wage).
How about pointing out that the pass through to LLC's are not mom and pop businesses but large private corporations.
Like every other issue, the democratic party has not presented any alternative legislative packages.
1
Ignorance of math and science seems to be a prerequisite for being a Republican.
1
The myths and lies from the GOP are never ending.
That trickle down works & US corps pay a 35% tax rate vs 18-20% paid by the rest of the world.
And if we just cut taxes for the wealthy (which effectively means adding to the country's deficit and transferring money to the elites from little people through elimination of programs, services & key deductions that benefit them), all of this will supposedly lead to jobs & miraculous economic benefits for the average, struggling citizen. Which of course never happens.
But none of these are the real problem.
The real problem are uneducated voters who believe this nonsense, who never see the the truth and obviously don't care what it is. That essentially everything the repubs tell us is propaganda. And they keep voting for them.
A 2016 GAO study found In any one of these years (2006 - 2012), at least two-thirds (between 67% and 72%) of all active corporations had zero tax liability after credits. And due to loopholes the average effective tax rate among the profitable large corporations was 16.1% https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-16-363
Further, according to the Center on Budget & Policy, Individual income taxes accounted for 47% of federal tax revenues in 2015 and 46% in 2014. But corporate taxes those years represented only about 11% of federal tax revenues.
Taxes should be raised on the wealthy, not lowered, period.
http://www.newsweek.com/robert-reich-why-rich-and-corporations-should-pa...
6
"Math Problem Bedevils Republican Tax Rewrite"
Devils bedeviled in their devilry?
1
The lesson I take away from this story is that math has a liberal bias.
1
What else could you expect from a political party that sincerely believes 2 + 2 = 5?
Math! Who knew?
For anyone who can barely think, this wreckage is at the least an embarrassment and at the worst, catastrophic. For anyone who still thought there was something to Paul Ryan of value, this should nail that coffin of lies shut permanently and there is the Turtle, just going along to protect what’s left of that tattered, shameless rag of a Republican Party. Unfortunately they take the rest of us along for this ride of terror that will throw us off to never recover. And they come out every day smiling and patting themselves on the back for doing their best to please this most corrupt president in our history. When will sanity enter the picture again? I hope it won’t be too late.
2
Take a look at Paul Krugman's https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/10/29/tax-cut-fraudulence-the-usu.... I think this is what is really happening.
1
The United States is now a kleptocracy.
2
Gotta love the accompanying photo--all smirking middle-aged to old white guys. Real representative of the country. That's conservative America for you. If every woman and person of color comes out and votes the opposition candidate in every election going forward, we may just get some of these liars and destroyers out of our pockets and lives.
2
If they pass this budget, and because so few people are true employees; I say everyone start their own S-Corp. It's not hard. There is some paperwork. You get paid on a 1099, and you won't have payroll taxes and income taxes withheld from you. You pay yourself in salary (a much higher tax rate) what you think you're worth. Since you're the employer, you can be cheap and pay your worker (yourself) almost nothing and take most all of it as profits with just a 20% tax rate (period). If you pay your employee you'll have to do 940s and 941s along with unemployment but it's not hard, and the money you'll save you can hire an accountant which you can completely deduct. Speaking of deductions, the sky's the limit. Play the odds against the IRS who will be overwhelmed. Just make sure your numbers add up.
Anyone can act like a fat cat with this tax plan.
Besides, we can indirectly kill Social Security and Medicare with all our actions!!! Paul Ryan would be so giddy!
Mr. Ryan, you should watch Frontline -- the scene where the CIA comes to the Capitol and you people don't believe the Russians have undermined our democracy! Here's the link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-revenge/
1
What do you expect from the GOP's world where 2+2=what ever you want it to be. Where are the American people in all this chicanery and why are they allowing the GOP to pickpocket us?
Let the buyer beware? Well, the foolish, gullible people allowed a bunch of crooks into their home and the crooks are going to town with our bank account. Too bad. Let the buyer beware!
When will we realize it's time to fumigate?
Tax cuts for Donald and Melania and their businesses. They don’t pay taxes anyway right?
Mess around with people’s retirement savings, and then go try to find a trillion bucks. Medicare? Medicaid?
I’m sure the GOP would have supported Obama with that.
Have you people no minds, no decency at all?
Let me get this straight in the real world 2+2+2=6. In the fantasy world of the republicans 2+2+2=5 or3 or 7 who knows. Sorry to say folks this sounds like a major con job and when are the republican voters going to come out of their faux inducted comma.
“So if I have any problems, I will be blaming Mnuchin and Cohn,” Mr. Trump said ahead of a cabinet meeting.
No doubt he was "joking". But, the truth is Mr. Trump always looks for scapegoats. What a small, petty man he is.
2
A new name for the 'Resistance'. Cut Cut Cut it out.
1
Shouldn't America charge more to corporations based in the United States than a company based in some other country that's not as developed, not as advanced. It's like a four star hotel saying we need to charge the same as Red Roof Inn so we get more customers....I do believe corporations should be paying a premium for the best location in the world, so dropping the tax rate that low...is a stupid giveaway.
We are seriously going to let these clowns gut and raid the 401k program to pad the pockets of corporations? This is a stupid idea on SO many levels. As if ordinary Americans don't have enough trouble saving for retirement!
This is a travesty. Call your legislators let them feel the pain!
Who would have believed, the uneducated republicans are ill-equipped to do math?!
Trump, show us your tax returns. We, the people, take you as a proxy of the 1%, and we wish to see how the GOP tax proposal changes your tax return if it comes to pass.
Unless that happens any debate on tax is nonsense.
5
Dear Republicans,
The NYT talks about math problems when we know the Republican agenda is diverting government funds and support to large business donors. Silly NYT! They describe a political program to remove tax benefits for middle class retirement as trouble with the quadratic equation. Kudos for obscuring the political values at work.
Dear Reality,
The Republican economic program is a Pyramid Scheme. It relies on tricking the public to believe something bizarre: instead of getting subsidies and money directly through tax relief, we should give it to those who are already wealthy so they can eventually . . . hopefully . . . give it back to the American people. The logic: give money away and hope it doubles when it trickles back down.
How can this economic agenda continue to exist in an America where the middle class has already shrunk due to tax policy that funnels money to the rich? How can the continue to sell the promise of giving more to the rich to achieve prosperity for all? Maybe because the NYT describes political attempts to rob the public as a problem of math rather than ideology.
Favorite that, NYT.
2
Two comments: First, I thought that they were going to simplify the tax code. Taking out two rate levels has a zero affect on simplification while adding deduction changes makes it more complex. Second, if they believe in a fair taxation system why do they not tax all income items the same where the capital gains would be treated as regular income and as a result taxed at the regular income rate? Seeing this it becomes very evident that Congress cannot be trusted as it will continue to fall under the control of the wealthy, like Trump, who wants to lower his family tax costs via these changes and to make certain they meet the supposed spending limitations the encumbrances will fall back on the middle class.
2
Wow, just all bad. I really hope this gets shut down. Why would anyone in a representative democracy think it's a good idea to leave out half of the representatives? I'm beginning to really resent many parts of this country.
2
Inflation is currently at 100%. All because of the corporations and the rich and the republican'ts. Tax the rich, tax the corporations, tax all republican'ts out of existence.
This country has problems paying its bills as it is and the surprise bills from Hurricanes and environmental disasters is going to continue to rise. Whatever happened to infrastructure? That costs money and we need it now.
If this country thinks that it is making a better America through this tax cutting is insane. All the Trump voters that are currently in the middle class will see their effective incomes fall because eventually they will be paying more for everything. Insurance rates, car repairs, healthcare costs, college costs for their kids - all of these things are hidden taxes that will be passed on to normal citizens. All the while, hiding the revenue loss and spreading it out over a 10 year period is just a Trojan horse waiting.
There is no way that taking away Healthcare and Social Security and making the merely wealthy Americans less wealthy and secure is going to help the people that are struggling every day be better off. Corporations that have been hoarding money for years are not going to all of a sudden offer employees better wages and benefits and the truly rich are not going to buy more pants, shoes and cars made in the USA - They buy their shoes in Italy anyway.
How will the USA pay for its expanding military and ever expanding wars? How will it fix its roads and bridges? How will it prepare for continuing natural man caused disasters? Eventually in the end; it won't. Remember the Kansas experiment? That was a man made disaster.
35
Whatever happened to all those JOBS the Republicans were going to create?
Don't hold your breath you silly fool if you voted for them hoping for that. The Republicans exist only to pad the pockets of their wealthiest donors.
5
These guys are incompetent. I am not voting Republican again until they get Trump out, stop destroying health and drop the ridiculous tax plan. GOP means Gone Off Point!
Memo to Trump: Cut taxes for the rich. Cut Medicaid. Cut Medicare. Cut funds for education. Cut food stamps. Cut funding for the arts. Cut health insurance for nine million kids. Cut the ability to save for retirement. Cut everything that might improve people's lives and help create a better future for our children. When you're done with all that, cut the words about the tired, the poor and huddled masses from the Statue of Liberty and throw them, along with the rest of our shattered country's ideals, into the seas that you will soon pollute.
6
The problem bedeviling the Republican Party is the devil
Himself. Deep in their black hearts they know it is evil to lower taxes on the rich and they know it is unnecessary. They know the middle class and poor need that support. And they dare to call themselves Christians. Bah! Humbug!
3
Corporations often do not pay ANY taxes, no?
2
How about taxing religious organizations...that would do it.
9
If tax-exempt organizations, like religious ones, want the right to speak on issues that concern them, there is an easy solution: pay taxes like the rest of us. If they are not contributing to the common good, they do not deserve a voice in making policy.
4
It is obvious by now that gerrymandering and voter suppression keeps these people in office. Clearly voting them out of office isn’t a possibility.
What if every American who was outraged by the republicans plans to tax the middle class actually did not pay their income taxes.
After all the GOP are simplely trying to reimburse their 1%donor class.
I don’t think there are enough IRS employees to fine 350 million Americans. The jails aren’t big enough to hold millions of Americans either.
2
So tired of having Obamacare labeled as "unpopular". It was maligned greatly by the GOP after great problems with the sign up process and the input by insurance industry. If this is so unpopular why is there such a great problem in dismantling it? Most people want the coverage and safeguards in this bill.
6
It appears that Republican “tax reform” will be a few hundred pages of additional complications heaped upon the overly-complicated, universally-despised federal tax code.
The missed opportunity to rationalize corporate taxes is most regrettable. The corporate tax rate absurdly applies to “profits”, an accounting fiction.
Since corporations are persons, according to Republican dogma, shouldn’t they be taxed, like persons, on income? Or, more appropriately, on value-added, the only equitable and unavoidable tax base for business activity?
If individuals were taxed according to the corporate tax notion, my taxable income would be gross income less my expenses, not gross income less allowable deductions. I wish!
Eliminating the notion of a corporate tax on profits, not adjusting the tax rates on a fictitious base, is the way forward.
Remember the outcry over the new math introduced in the 60's---Paul Ryan is bringing it back with his explanation of how the new tax proposal works. It appears he is getting the same response parents gave the new math in the sixties.
Estimated 3.5 trillion increase in the deficit. Instead of Huckabees convuluted beer analogy. How about this one. How many people would mortgage their house making it harder for them to provide for their family and give thee money to a wealthy relative in the hopes of receiving a nice christmas present.
3
The math is simple: 1%ers, don't take salary, just dividends.
2
The name 'cut, cut, cut' is accurate. The plan, as well as it's known at this time, doesn't suggest that it is either fair or balanced. Lowering corporate taxes are going to go to the shareholders and not to invest in new jobs, capital or wage increases. If one wanted to distribute the cuts to the lower and middle class, the rate cuts would have been to the payroll taxes (FICA), which is where most people pay their taxes and not to the marginal rates. If one was looking for fairness, the 'carrying interest' would be eliminated so that the republican donors (think hedge funds) would be paying ordinary tax rates like most other people.
Bottom line, Trump's plans are supporting his donor class and continues to ignore the masses.
2
The "plan" just came out. I don't see anything resembling "reform," just more complexity. I guess that's good for me, as an accountant, but not for anyone else, including those 1%ers who depend on the purchasing power of the rest of us for their riches.
3
the real math problem that haunts the GOP goes back to 1st grade math's most basic concept. they don't understand what '=' means.
they very idea that we have a federal tax code only to raise enough revenue to pay the bills that they themselves approve and that revenue must '=' approved expenditures to avoid deficits continues to be an impossible concept for them to grasp.
1
This plan is starting to sound more and more like the AHCA. Once again, Republicans are constrained by Trump’s and their own impossible demands. Once again, rather than fixing the problems, they’re contemplating band-aid solutions that put off the day of reckoning. And once again, they’re including some truly deplorable sections. In this case allowing religious entities to take part in politics - a blatant attack against the separation of church and state.
No doubt they’ll get it past the House, but then then House also passed the AHCA. We can only hope that the Senate will be more reasonable.
The party of budget cuts is going on a spending spree and the middle class is going to be royally fleeced. The rich will make out like bandits. Let's run up the deficit to pay for these tax cuts for the rich. I can believe they are doing it this way. We're in big trouble if the legislation passes.
1
Name the bill truthfully, "By the Wealthy, Of the Wealthy and For the Wealthy".
2
Doesn’t sound like Paul Ryan has an arithmetic problem so much as a PR problem. That’s not new. Just as with health care, the issue is creative ways to disguise what is happening so the voters won’t twig what’s up.
The problems are about the ad campaign; the aims are clear; it’s about the packaging.
1
So now I can't write off my State and Local Taxes. I'm subsidizing tax cuts for corporations. I'm sure Kelly Anne will tell me it will be offset by higher wages from my company. I'm sure the first thing large companies will do is buy back stock not raise my wage. This is an increase in taxes to subsidize big corporations and ultra wealthy. Give me a break. I hope every republican gets voted out for increasing my taxes. Representative Duffy in NW Wisconsin. Your going to lose your job.
4
"A Trillion deficit dollars here and a Trillion deficit dollars there and now you are talking real money" to paraphrase a famous quote. Republicans used to care about deficits, but now that most of the Senate and Congress are in the millionaire class they are all for deficits. And of course they are willing to use their power to enrich their donors, as they too benefit.
The only reason there was a drop dead date for tax reform was to keep the Democrats out of the process. Democracy in action. These proposed tax cuts for Corporations are not going to result in jobs, pay raises for the lowly worker, or benefits for the lower economic classes. So let Trump and the rest of them get more money that they do not deserve. They are not producing anything of value, but that is beside the point. And they will leave the rest of us paying for their tax breaks. Sounds fair to me.
2
It's not a "math problem". It's math. The numbers don't add up. The trick for the Republicans is to figure out how to disguise their tax cut for the wealthy so that we don't notice what they did until years down the road - when it's too late, and we're wondering how we can fix the disaster they created in 2017.
2
President Bill Clinton told during one of his speeches that people asked what he brought to Washington. Then, he answered "arithmetic!" Apparently, the Republicans have not retained anything from the economically successful presidencies of President Clinton and President Obama. They both reduced the deficit and in the case of Clinton, he left the White House with a huge surplus.
It is high time that the Republicans stopped this partisan game and acted like Americans, for the benefit of the country and its citizens. On their current path, the American masses do not win anything.
1
While the Republicans cheerfully contemplate limiting 401K contributions for us working slobs, there hasn't been a peep about also limiting the contributions CEO's can make to their pension plans. CEO's can contribute thousands of dollars every year to tax-exempt pension trusts and be guaranteed a retirement benefit of a couple hundred grand per year. These plans cost the government millions of dollars every year, but no senator would dream of limiting them. That wouldn't be because the senators benefit from the exact same plans, would it?
I was told that there would be no math.....
23
The GOP's "principled conservatives" will use gimmicks, flimflam, and lies to make the math "work." And Honest Don will use his enormous credibility to sell the plan. Shame on them, especially boneless Liddle Paul Ryan!
1
Math, thought, reality, and sometimes English along with truth befuddle the Republicants. The RICH shall inherit the tax breaks, said the lord god of the tax laws!
1
Figures do not lie, but liars figure.
3
How about the, "Let Them Eat Cake" Tax Bill?
4
Or the Puerto Rico ..let them drink paper towels....
1
Those Republicans who can't do math are probably honors graduates of one of DeVos's beloved charter schools.
6
The latest report is that the GOP plan would cause a $5.5 trillion hit on the deficit. Of course they're hypocrites, and irresponsible, but this is really beyond the pale. They're gleefully skewering the US economy and crashing the government (Mr. Bannon's not-s0-secret agenda) to claim that they can do something.
28
Our Lobbyocracy is a disgrace. They don't need arithmetic or science, when they have fake news.
1
The lobbyocracy has not entered the arena yet. That's the next chapter once the "plan" gets disclosed.
Math has always bedeviled Republicans. This is nothing new!
1
Good luck. Perhaps the Russians have some ideas.
2
Lowering taxes is faith based economics. a.k.a. the rich are gods
Personal responsibility is for the little guy. Big guys get a pass (or a pardon)
Deregulation is the opiate of the scoundrel.
Fire anyone with the knowledge to disagree.
These guys are on a roll....
4
Deplorable Donald Trump and the Deplorable Republican Party are so incompetent that they are incapable of drafting coherent legislation. We can only hope that the Tax Reform that they have designed to enrich the 'one percent' will fail in the same wway that their efforts to destroy the Affordable Care Act have failed. The United States has gotten the kind of government it voted for. The United States has gotten the kind of government it deserves.
6
I think I've figured out the "math problem" that's bedeviling the RepugniCants:
The problem is that the rest of the world uses a mathematical system that is premised on counting in modulo 10 (aka base 10, if you learned math in the 1970s). Conversely, the RepugniCants' math is premised on counting in modulo 8.
The rest of the world believes that 4+6+7=17. But the RepugniCants know better, because in modulo 8, 4+6+7=21. All of their math works out fine, if the rest of us would simply stop insisting on using modulo 10, and use modulo 8 instead.
See, we just have to accept their "alternative math," just like we have to accept their "alternative facts." Then suddenly everything starts to make sense, and what appeared to be "problems" suddenly disappear.
QED.
8
"The only thing is, the book I got that problem out of, wants you to do it in base 8. But don't worry, base 8 is just like base 10, if you're missing 2 fingers."
Tom Lehrer
No surprise. The current Republican party isn't good at math. Or history. Or ethics. Or English. Or economics. Or science.
17
No GOP politician should be smiling when you consider the problem they created for themselves: finding up to $1.5 trillion to pay for handouts to the wealthy. It is safe to say these items are not revenue getters: lowering corporate and personal tax rates; eliminating estate taxes, and the ATM; extending child tax credits. Seem if the government is honestly concerned about fairness, they would seriously think about a flat 10% tax. But, considering who is getting the lion's share of these tax reductions the word fairness doesn't apply.
23
It's even worse than that. The problem isn't finding $1.5 trillion in offsets. The problem is finding enough offsets so that the cuts "only" increase the deficit by $1.5 trillion. So suddenly the same GOP that voted against hurricane aid for Sandy victims because they didn't want one more dollar of deficit spending is fine with trillions in new debt to lavish tax cuts on the already wealthy.
Just remember that those of us who supported Bernie's free college proposal were sneered at and derided as wanting unicorns and rainbows. How could we possibly afford to add to the deficit with hundreds of billions on education? But now, literally a few months later, we are on the verge of passing these tax cuts that cost many times more, and considering it perfectly reasonable. Which would benefit the average person more? Which would be better for society?
When are Americans going to wake up and vote in policies that will actually help them, rather than helping billionaires? I'm not holding my breath.
1
@Me Too - It looks like they are actually laughing AT us, especially at those who voted for them - the likely math deficient base.
2
Remove all those loop-holes that corporations use to reduce their effective tax rate from the "tax code" 30% down to the effective rate of 18%.
13
As our democracy continues to disintegrate with each passing day, these elected officials have made their top priority to pass completely unnecessary, harmful tax cuts. We are actually paying them a salary to struggle to come up with a catchy name to sell their bill of goods to America.
We should cut cut cut the congressional payroll.
I'm becoming concerned for what they'll come up with to inscribe upon the tombstone of our democracy. That would be assuming those who destroy it care about a decent burial. But since we've yet to see any decency from them, they'd carve into it something like, "The Founders Were Losers. Sad."
Mark your calendars for the most important date in our lives thus far:
Election Day 2018 is 369 days from today.
44
What good is an election anymore when all our "representatives" are in the pockets of lobbyists and the corporations they serve?
These so-called “tax cuts” are LOANS! Borrowing from future generations - for something that won’t even benefit these generations! Or us!
If 401k contributions are limited all of the owners of these accounts could take a cash position and the market would crash after a decrease of $5 trillion in equities.
16
The effective tax rate on businesses is around 24%, down from the 35% rate due to so many deductions and exemptions. If you cut the business rate from 35% to 24% and get rid of all business exemptions and loopholes, the cut in the business rate would be revenue neutral. 24% is roughly the average tax rate on businesses for the developed countries. Now that is tax reform not just a tax cut.
16
The Republican’s problem isn’t the math, it’s the voodoo economics that they are once again trying to scam the middle-income taxpayers. Reagan’s tax cuts and trickle down economics failed, GW Bush’s tax cut and war spending nearly bankrupted our nation and led to the Great Recession. The Trump/Republican proposal will yield the same disastrous results.
Corporations are bloated with cash, unemployment is down, the rich are earning more and their investments are producing record results yet the Trump/Republican tax proposal gives them further massive tax cuts.
It’s the lower and middle income workers that have had stagnant wages for years, have seen their buying power decrease, have seen cost for food, utilities, health insurance and prescriptions soar and yet the biggest beneficiaries of the Trump/Republican tax cut proposal are still the rich and corporations.
41
Question is how to make Americans see through the sham. I see the homes of the super rich, the multiple homes, planes, yachts yet they want even more tax cuts? When will this greed stop? Perhaps it is Fox news, (and their associated newspaper empire) who sell half truths and bend reality to favor the Corporations, Wall Street stock holders. It may be reality TV that is distracting people so they dont really get to know the truths that will once again hurt them. It is companies with their 1000 lobbyists who influence and buy our politicians. We really ought to teach civics and economy to our children. I am totally disgusted with the lies, the hatred of tweets by our President that is distracting the average citizen to what is really happening to our nation.
The Republican plan is to bankrupt the government so that it can't pay for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security or subsidize healthcare (the ACA). In simple terms, having stolen from the Social Security Trust fund, the Republicans intend to default. That's how they will make America Great again -- they intend for the "full faith and credit of the United States" to mean nothing.
22
"..having stolen from the Social Security Trust fund,.."
You have absolutely no evidence for that claim. None.
Math is not the problem. It is Republicans that are the problem. Voodoo economics, based on voodoo tax plans and voodoo governing. Their lack of education is on full display as is their nefarious intent dealing in secret behind closed doors such that their voters can be duped on behalf of the insiders paying them off.
23
Due to Trump’s laziness and failure to involve himself in the necessary details of governing, his tax plan is in serious trouble and in my opinion done so deliberately by congressional leaders so as to sabotage it. The need to have a revenue-neutral tax bill cannot occur without severe disruptions to most people. Trump is going to be ‘trumped’ by those who are smarter than he.
6
Another badly thought out action by Republicans.
Do they even care about the constituents they were elected to serve?
Obviously rhetorical question-
14
Please stop calling it a "math problem".
Just because Paul Ryan and his colleagues cannot solve it does not make it any harder than a simple arithmetic problem that any third grader could solve.
No offense meant to third graders.
16
The math problems are minor. The bigger problem is that the billionaires are taking over control of the country and destroying the merely wealthy. They are turning our country into a banana republic as this article explains: https://www.bestcashcow.com/republicans-are-pushing-dangerous-banana-rep...
9
Republicans can do maths? Who knew? Voodoo economics yes but 2+2 = 4? Have I been asleep since Reagan left office?
5
What is most shocking is the sheep-like willingness of the American public to put up with these direct attacks on democracy and their financial security. The government is actively and publicly in the process of undermining their financial and social well-being. How can that be OK?
A few mass demonstrations would put a stop to this nonsense, Lots of angry citizens in the street is the one thing that scares the powers that be.
15
I am struck by the fact that there are no demonstrations. I agree these Republicans want to kill all the social advances that have helped citizens with medical bills, seniors with medicare, poor with medicaid, children of single parents, hard working citizens who earn less for the same job and work longer than citizens in the EU. The fact that now Trump wants states who have county, state and local taxes to be unable to get credit by deducting same somewhat from federal taxes shows what Republicans true purpose is. Interesting is that many of those states who have worse public schools are the same who don't have those taxes. Time to do what we see in other countries, to go into the streets and demand these crooks to be perched from their thrones. They don't love this country, they pledge their allegiance to the super wealthy stock holders, corporations such as the NRA, Pharmaceuticals, Insurance companies, polluters of the Air, land and Oceans. We need Corporations who care about its citizens and the planet (a planet limited by space and recourses). I hear the rhetorics used to deceive us.
Any resulting Tax cuts will merely shift the same money from government books to public books. They are growing the books, not the economy.
I read how the Corporations were hording their money instead of hiring people or paying them more over the recovery.
It's Hoods Robin.
9
How about just introducing VAT (value added tax), otherwise known as the "very annoying tax" in exchange for the tax cuts? Given the high amount of consumption in the US, this would quickly offset any loss of other taxes.
3
It’s kind of hard to make it all add up when your economic philosophy is based largely on a novel and your proposed policies have been empirically proven not to work. Paul Ryan may be a brilliant politician, but whatever intelligence he possesses will never be used to serve The People.
13
What is the status of the military budget. I heard they really ramped that up. Haven't heard anything else. If they have some interest in a balanced budget get the military (and related war-provoking Trump's tweets) under control.
4
The math is simple: more tax breaks for the wealthy = more donations for the politicians.
10
This is not much of a challenge for the Republican majority. Science does not stand in their way. Neither should mathematics.
8
This is just another version of trickle down economics, with the emphasis on corporate tax relief as the engine of economic growth. With so many corporations loaded with monies, some of it harbored in off-shore accounts, only the naïve among the electorate could possibly believe these "tax cuts" will make a difference in their lives. But "naïve" seems to be the watchword of the electorate during the Trump/Republican presidency.
7
The Republican tax reform targets the class of Americans that got a college degree and these are the people that make the life of the ultra-wealthy possible, and enjoyable.
5
A “Math Problem” doesn’t come close to describing the root of the moral bankruptcy at the heart of the Republican tax plan. Let’s not help cement a new normal through our description of the issues.
6
Asking Trump to name the Tax Act because of his “branding expertise”. His next suggestion will probably be Tax Reform Under Many Priorities or TRUMP for short...That fits with his other “branding expertise”
3
The problem is that there is no science of Physics without Mathematics. Then, of course, we can't have the science of Chemistry without its underlying principles essentially derived from Physics. Now, with Biology we have to apply both Chemistry and, to a lesser degree, Physics as well. Then, when it's time to apply all three disciplines to complex, interrelated areas of study such as (Heaven forbid!!) Climate Science and Environmental Sciences, well, now we have a mess on our hands. These disciplines produce heretical yet demonstrably accurate and provable facts that contradict the beliefs of creationist museum curators (Jesus riding a dinosaur) and fairy tales about the earth being only 6,000 years old. Want to disagree? You'll be dealing with a good number of Confederate creationists and other Trumpenstein fanatics. Don't forget that the 2012 Texas Republican Party platform called for the elimination of teaching critical thinking in public schools which subversively leads to questioning the authority of one's parents and the faith instilled in one's upbringing.
5
Take $6000 from each family in the middle class each year, 40 million families—the 55 percent to 95 percent who earn $50,000 to $200,000 a year, such as 401k limits— multiply by 40, and give $240,000 to each family on the top 1 percent, who already make over $1 million a year.
2
How about cutting the Pentagon budget, mothballing some of those understaffed ships that keep crashing into commercial ships and unneeded military bases, cancelling some of those expensive cost-overrun new purchases, and pulling back from invading and destabilizing and more regions of the world and making new enemies? Oh, but that would cost the arms manufacturers profits and cost a few congresspeople bribes and votes in the areas where the armaments are made. Can't have that, can we?
3
As part of their efforts to repeal the Johnson Amendment, Republicans should increase revenue by taxing the largess of the wealthiest tax-exempt religions in the nation - especially if they want to intrude into politics with theocratic dogma - they should pay taxes like the rest of the tax paying voter.
6
The GOP tax plan is a redistribution of wealth from the poor and the middle class to the rich and big corporations. The GOP is disappointed that the poor and the middle class didn't have enough wealth to make the tax cuts even bigger.
3
Why is Ryan meeting with Conservative Groups as pictured in the article?
Do they represent something other than cash to Republicans?
1
Repeal of the Johnson Amendment stinks from pillar to post. If religious entities want to preach politics, they can pay taxes like the rest of us. And while we're at it, let's remove all the "No Parking" signs in front of their hallowed doors.
4
If they eliminate health care deductions they can call it the Kick A Cripple Today act. Tormenting the sick and injured to benefit the wealthy is just so Republican . My wife's deductible medical expenses will top $100,000 net year. I can just imagine the joy the GOP will have in attacking her
1
Sympathies to the GOP - so much to giveaway to the rich, so few poor people to gouge it all from!
2
Republicans:
Bad at math.
Bad at governing.
Bad at caring about America.
Bad at caring about Americans (unless there's a political motive)
Bad at marriage.
Bad at fiscal responsibility.
Bad at personal responsibility.
Wait... what exactly ARE they good at?
3
Let's be serious, we all know Republicans have as strong a relationship with math as they do with the truth and facts.
1
Wow, who would have thought that governing would be so hard.
1
This age old expression should accompany that silly picture leading this story....
"Money is the root of all Politics"
Hey fellow Americans...don't Republicans always complain about deficit spending? Oh never mind ...it's the mythical world of Republican Land... it's not real life. Gotta funnel some cash back to those big special interest money donors right?
Although it may be difficult to see right now, this tax bill (even if passes) will have a relatively short lifespan. Within 5-10 years, our structural deficits and massive national debt will force large, across-the-board tax increases.
What about preserving the state and local tax exemption? That's key for high tax states like New York and New Jersey? It will really hurt the real estate market here as people flee for lower tax states. That's already a probably with retirees.
2
The economic growth promised by tax cut will mean that the baby boomers over 65 will need to go to work because they will take away medicare and social security which will crowd out younger workers! But of course, companies will not hire these older workers! When Reagan had a tax cut, the Baby Boomers were in the prime earning years, buying houses, having kids, buying toys, and clothes. Now the baby boomers spend most of their money on prescription goods and medicare care! Don't compare tax cut to Reagans!
1
Now that we are living in a one-party political system Russia has gotten what it wanted in the last election. Our single Republican Party government and the industry lobbyists who created their tax cut will finally let us see what we will get. This is called shared decision making; they make decisions and share them with us.
If the public has three tax brackets based on taxable income, why not corporations? The justification is based on the fact that the SCOTUS ruled that corporations are people. Besides, most corps pay less than 15% now and the really big ones don't pay zip.
1
They cannot get this enacted. They cannot ‘reconcile’ it to the recently passed budget without drastically cutting off spending to the poor and middle class.
Why give those who can afford to pay their taxes a meaningless cut? 44 million college educated Americans are unable to participate meaningfully in the economy, putting off buying homes, cars, goods, and starting families. Declare a jubilee. Release defaulted loan debt back into the economy, a $1.45 trillion infusion. With at least 4 declarations of bankrupcy, Mr. Trump would understand this. He has benefited from the life changing relief of multiple clean slates.
1
I support the cut in the corporate tax rates. But not if it gets paid for by the middle class through elimination or reduction of the tax favored treatment of 401k's or primary residence mortgage and state tax deductions.
Getting rid of the SALT deductions is to hike the taxes in blue States to fund bigger wealth transfers to the red taker States. that the blue States already pay more than they get from the Federal government to fund tax cuts by red States is not enough for the GOP. the GOP wants more wealth transferred from rich liberal elites to the right-wing rich in red States.
1
So if Republicans get their Redistribution of Wealth from the Working- and Middle-Classes to the Rich Bill passed it will undoubtedly have passed with all Republican votes. I wonder how many Republicans will then complain that it was "rammed through" without any votes from the Democrats?
Remember, they're against "ramming through" bills without any votes from the opposing party. (See the ACA, which was "rammed through" despite numerous Republican amendments, months of hearings, and way too much compromise that benefited the insurance industry.)
3
X axis - 0 to $$$ highest income.
Y axis - 0 to 100% tax rate
Z axis - how many people at each income rate
Taxes - Line from 0 (origin) to whatever percent tax at the highest income gives an area under the line that meets the annual budget. Formula each person can plug into and figure out their taxes.
The more money middle class people make and the more who work, the more taxes they can pay, and the tax rates comes down. Gives incentive to wealthy to pay more wages and put more people to work.
If you don't work, you make 0 wages and pay 0 percent taxes.
If you make a lot of money, you pay the highest tax rates, but you have the most money left over.
Everyone incentivized to lower taxes and be frugal with services.
Fair and simple.
Everyone is under the illusion that the republicans care about the middle class worker, wrong. If you are a middle class worker and vote republican, you are actually voting against your own interests. The Tax plan is Trickle Up never Trickle Down Economics. The Middle Class will pay for the tax cuts. The Deficit will go up, recession is in the future and another crash will be on the horizon with no one in Washington able to help us out of it, It may be worse than 2008.
The worse thing about this tax plan is that we are not negotiating across the isle, this is no longer a Republic, now an oligarch system.
If this Bill is enacted as I am reading it now, middle class America is going to be dragged further, and further down. The 1% may become 1.5% of us, but the rest of us are going to bite the dirt of poverty as our schools, roads, bridges, healthcare, and social services decline to nothing. This Bill is a give away to rich Wall Street investors, corporate giants, money managers, bankers, and the very wealthy. It is nothing more.
1
Republican Tax Reform:
Reduce taxes for the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.
When economic disaster strikes, investigate Hillary.
Problem solved.
2
Instead of Cut, Cut, Cut tax bill. It should be called, The Trump massive giveaway to billionaires and huge deficits plan.
Tax carried interest at normal income tax rates.
Keep the inheritance tax but make the exclusion $10 million for all families.
Have a one year 17.5% rate on repatriation of foreign held income, then make it 20% flate rate no deductions.
Do not change taxes on anybody making more that $1 million a year.
Go to a flat 20% tax rate on businesses, no deductions.
Get rid of the pass-through giveaway to lawyers.
Stop robbing the middle class to help the rich with passive investments that create no jobs.
In 1776, Governor Thomas Jefferson changed the inheritance laws of Virginia to dilute the passage of wealth from generation to generation in order to avoid a "future aristocracy of wealth"
2
"Business groups, meanwhile, say lawmakers run the risk of putting the United States at a global disadvantage if it does not reduce the corporate tax rate to a level commensurate with other industrialized nations."
Business groups say this, but they are lying. The effective corporate tax rate is equal to or lower than in other industrialized nations. In a study from 2006-2012, at least two-thirds (between 67% and 72%) of all active corporations had zero tax liability after credits. https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2017/04/24/trumps-corporate-tax....
This is something that the reporters should know. They should also know (see https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-s...
"General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms paid no federal income taxes from 2008 to 2012.
288 big and profitable Fortune 500 corporations paid an average effective federal tax rate of just 19.4% from 2008 to 2012.
Profitable corporations paid U.S. income taxes amounting to just 12.6% of worldwide income in 2010.
U.S. corporations dodge $90 billion a year in income taxes by shifting profits to subsidiaries — often no more than post office boxes — in tax havens.
U.S. corporations officially hold $2.1 trillion in profits offshore — much of it in tax havens — that have not yet been taxed here."
1
Whatever happened to No Taxation Without Representation? Under cover of darkness, Trump’s goons and the GOP are trying to ram through “tax reform” that is dangerously contrary to the best interests of most Americans. I hope we who are paying attention will be galvanized to resist this travesty as we have fought — with at least some success — Trump’s determination to unravel our healthcare safety net. Flood the Congressional switchboards to voice your opposition. A president and party implicated in treasonous activities should not be allowed to bankrupt our country.
Deja vu - health coverage reform all over again!
Republicans have stated the objective - big tax cuts - for years. But, they've had no specific plan about how to achieve it. They told more lies than truth about who it would benefit - THE MIDDLE CLASS. Now, as they have to release each provision under consideration, their lies are laid bare.
The press keeps treating as normal their initial provision to allow a $1.5 trillion deficit, meaning that all cuts don't have to paid for. So, we are going to borrow more money for normal operations of government to allow bigger tax cuts for wealthy individuals and corporations that do not need them!
Pretty tough assignment when 50% of the federal pie goes for the military and is non-negotiable.
2
Lawyers, guns, and money. Although in this case it is money, guns , and lawyers.
Math problem or the old logic problem, "Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?", i.e. to transport our produce to city markets, do we put the cart in front of the horse or the horse in front of the cart? When we rewrite the Federal tax code, do we begin with our financial obligations or a contrived savings number? If the latter, then do we use alternative math? Like the Repeal and Replace Republican efforts at healthcare, this plan looks now like it was put together by high school or college students "cramming" for a final exam. A truly thoughtless and careless exercise towards America and Americans.
The Congressional Republican Party (CRP) exists to cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations. They want to do this regardless of whether it makes fiscal sense or not and regardless of who it might hurt--middle class home owners, 401(k) contributors,the poor and disabled who depend on Medicaid and everyone who depends on Medicare.
Fortunately, the CRP doesn't like government or governing and thus are bad at getting the tax cutting goals that they want. Add to this the most ignorant President in modern history and we are likely to see the spectacle of the CRP failing to do what they most want and that which they are supposed to be good at doing. This could be very interesting and entertaining.
So they are scrambling to find money somewhere. You cut, run short, need money, and the only way to get it, is to re-institute a tax, or develop a new tax.
That doesn't sound very well thought out or smart.
Good solution-pass a "temporary" unsustainable tax cut and then pin it on the tax and spend Dems a few years from now when the tax reductions fail to general HUGE increases in growth. Repub perversity is the proverbial little engine that knows no rest.
1
"Revenue Neutral" means that tax cuts to business and rich individuals must be made up by tax increases to others. And there is still no guarantee that the businesses won't just buy back their stock with the windfall, and the the rich individuals won't just invest in stocks or move the money legally to the Cayman Islands. Congressman get 10 times more money from rich campaign donors and big companies than they do in salary from the US taxpayer, so you KNOW who they work for.
1
Yes, a math problem. The tax cut would hurt the majority of regular Americans while benefitting a small minority of rich Americans and corporations.
So much for dismantling a “rigged system.” Trump, as was 100% foreseeable, is further rigging a system that benefits the rich and powerful at the expense of regular Americans.
Vote for Democrats in 2018 and let’s get some brakes on this crazy train wreck that is Trump and the Republican Congress.
1
I'm a middle class, single parent who has worked my whole life. When I checked out the analysis of the tax cuts in the NYT a few days ago, my taxes are going up fairly significantly, 25% in first year and up to 40% or so in ten years. Check out the chart in the analysis that shows the cuts and increases by income ranges. Trump, the Republicans, and their wealthy backers should be ashamed of themselves for lying to the American people and the damage they are doing to this country. Robber barons all of them!
1
The Cut, Cut, Cut Act? The folly of the failed casino owner who wants a win, a trophy to display to his base! His son kills wild animals, reminding me that some gun-clubs raise pheasants in order to shoot them for sport. Donald raises hopes in some, and then destroys them. By hook or by crook, he'll have a new win this year to frame beside his electoral map and his cover picture from Time. And the problem for the GOP is not math. It's simple philosophy. What is the purpose of "tax reform?" All together, say it loud and clear! The purpose is to enrich the wealthy while destroying the good things government can do for people. But that dog won't hunt, so they have to dress it up, and their problem is they disagree on how to pretty-up the dog.
1
We are now living in an age of legislative tyranny.
The Republicans controlling every facet of our government are so drunk on their power they don't even feel the need to fake the appearance of properly legislating. Republicans just put 10 or 15 hand picked old white men in a room to draft legislation preferred by their corporate, billionaire and millionaire owners on the topic of the moment. No hearings, no expert witnesses, certainly no Democratic input needed. And, no public expressions of outrage or protest offered in the media.
The most sweeping, comprehensive tax bill written in 40 years? No problem. Republicans will have it for you in just three weeks! (Maybe a little longer. Have to take time out to gut the American peoples' right to sue their banks after the banks cheat them out of their retirement savings). And, the good news for the Republicans is, America's Republican clown prince of a President has the qualification most needed by today's Republicans -- five digits and a pen. If all goes well, we will have another smiling, glad handing bunch of Republicans gathered in the Rose Garden wildly celebrating another Republican "achievement" for the American people. And licking their lips at the prospect of "expeditiously" moving next year to pass needed "reforms" for Social Security and Medicare.
A group of smiling Republicans, like that in the photo accompanying this article, means the quality of life, for most all Americans, is about to decline.
3
This bill is no different that the repeal Obamacare bill. It is designed to hurt many people so the rich get a tax cut. Very SAD! It must not pass.
3
If I'm not mistaken, the financial health of our country may be the lone area under President Trumps's authority that he hasn't yet thrown into chaos. Let's see, former shining light of freedom to the downtrodden masses? Check. Dishonored role model to struggling countries aspiring to become democracies? Check, again. Unfettered war monger creating turmoil under the guise of fighting terrorism? Check, check. Laughingstock to all serious-minded governments in the West? Oh, definitely a check. That just leaves pillaging the national treasury, Kansas-style, under the guise of a middle-class tax cut. Soon to be check mate.
1
This country does not need a tax cut. This country desperately needs investment in infrastructure and health care (hello opioid crisis).
2
Can't wait until Trump tweets that everyone should have a unicorn! It will be entertaining to watch the Republicans twist themselves into pretzels over that. His tax demands aren't much different, wishful thinking or gutting essentials
Wow, I remember when the Reagan administration attacked pensions and unions. Forcing people into the much worse 401k system. It was a gigantic giveaway to Wall street, not so much for the average American worker. Now they want to come after 401ks because the filthy rich aren't being catered to enough according to republicans. They'll strip away Medicare and social security to give the rich more money. The rest of us can just go eat cat food as a retirement strategy. The rich will just do what they have done with all the other undeserved tax credits - keep the money and/or stash it offshore. This will not create any jobs. I guess our crumbling infrastructure isn't getting fixed anytime soon but hey we'll have sections of useless wall here and there at the Mexican border. Meanwhile anyone looking to do this country real harm can just stroll on through the largest unprotected border in the world - the Canadian border.
1
TRUMP’S DOUBLE WHAMMY:
“Wouldn’t it be great to Repeal the very unfair and unpopular Individual Mandate in Obamacare and use those savings for further Tax Cuts,”
Trump is the incarnation of the so called death panels, the specter that helped tube the Clinton doomed healthcare reform effort in the 90s.
Does it get any whacker than this? Hardly.
Next Trump will be Tweeting, “Let them eat cake.”
1
Congressman Paul Ryan does not have a math problem.
His challenge is to simply speak the truth once in a while.
perhaps tax reform is the wrong name for this Republican disaster,it should be referred to as the greatest national theft in the history of mankind.
Want to get Trump in a lather? Sign up for Affordable Care insurance for 2018.
Repeal the tax breaks for all religious groups, not the Johnson Amendment. The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, which also covers freedom FROM religion. And let's go back and replay all the speeches by republican deficit hawks over the last eight years. That ought to bore everybody to death. And let's Cut, Cut, Cut Trump whether it is Russians or emoluments. America can't afford tax breaks for robber barons and it can't afford the lying slug, woman grabbing Trump.
1
STOP spending money you don't have!!
THAT will fix all of these issues.
To make it all work use The Trump Strategem. You cut everyone's taxes, borrow from the Chinese and Japanese to make up the difference and then in a few years claim the mess is the fault of the Democrats.
This grandiose hypocrisy of a plan will work no better than it did in Kansas.
1
What's a little arithmetic between friends?
Honestly, the scariest thing about any tax cut is not who benefits or whether it will grow the economy. A cut of this magnitude will shrink the government to impotence. That's a lot of jobs, a lot of services and a lot of infrastructure. It's your neighbors and mine. It's your farm subsidy. It's grants that make your community a better place. Its' your clean air and water. I could go on. People are just high on the glee that they're gonna somehow stick it to the urban liberals and the government man with his soft hands, but they have no idea what the government does for them.
120
For one thing it does for them in those very red states is save them from climate change hurricane Indus and floods by stepping in and putting them back together. This deficit is going to leap and bound and they haven’t even added that new expense that will absolutely be recurring and with higher frequency and longer duration and much greater and larger devastation. Mostly to those Red States who hate the government so.
“Wouldn’t it be great to Repeal the very unfair and unpopular Individual Mandate in Obamacare and use those savings for further Tax Cuts,” Mr. Trump said."
Sure it would. Especially for cancer patients, who would find themselves with no insurance and higher taxes (end of most deductions) just when they most need income protection to fight their disease.
19
I was thinking the same thing. And when we run into more deficit issues, which of course we will, where do you think the cuts will come from to make up the difference?
The Government Accountability Office found that two-thirds of active corporations paid no federal tax. Even large, profitable corporations paid an average federal rate of only 14 percent — and Boeing, Verizon, General Electric and Priceline paid no federal income tax over a five-year period, according to Citizens for Tax Justice. Enough already. The middle class and small businesses can't afford this.
83
it still seems that the overall plan is to run up a big enough deficit coupled with a cash windfall for corporate and some of the wealthy supporters to be able to attack social security, medicaid and medicaire. the idea is that if we run the deficit up they can justify moving money from social welfare to the big money contributors. unfortunately for them millions of people in effect invested in their social welfare such as social security and medicaire. the solution is to create a larger deficit and then pin it on the elderly and the poor. if they can solve the problem of the working middle class then they can get that program rolling. it may even take a war to cover it up. no prob.a future of dumpster diving is no problem for them. after all if you do not have large financial strength you lost in terms of their definition for society.
32
Who knew: numbers is hard.
1
The GOP measure is unlikely to produce the economic growth promised by the bone-spur bozo occupying the White House. It is likely to increase the Federal deficit. After victories in 2018 and 2020 the Democrats will take control of the Senate and the House and use the same techniques to reinstate higher tax rates on those with personal income over $1,000,000 and to close loopholes (like the carried interest forward loophole which no one is talking about - even Trump whom less than 14 months ago championed the idea. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/18/business/with-trump-as-foe-carried-in...
15
The economy is global. We need a global solution with as many nations as possible raising taxes on multinational corporations in tandem instead of playing this race to the bottom. It would have the added bonus of.giving the small businesses struggling to compete against the big guys that own everything a fighting chance. This is not just Americas problem. Companies are bouncing around the globe, manipulating tax systems in ways that ultimately undermine the financial solvency and future economic prosperity of many nations.
As long as Apple can hide most of its profits overseas, would there ever be a big enough tax break for them? As long as state and local governments are also falling all over themselves to.give big corporations huge tax benefits, where does this end that ultimately benefits the majority rather than the minority?
33
Two questions: What’s the status of the medical deduction? If this bill passes before the end of the year, will this apply to 2017 tax returns?
13
Medical deduction appears to be dead, I think the plan is to make the changes effective for 2018. In other words, current law applies to 2017 returns.
Tax cuts for the rich. Unlimited influence in the political realm for the church. Big business over country. This is what the Republican tax plan amounts to.
113
So...Republicans only care about fiscal responsibility when the president in a Democrat.
I truely hope the next democrat president mutes himself the republican "outrage" and advances socialized health care, child care, higher education and the like. At least if we run a deficit for this, working class people will actually benefit.
Will any person making under 100k/year benefit...even if they get an extra 3000 dollar tax cut? Thats a trip to the emergency room.
54
You really think it's gonna cut your taxes? When they want to increase the lowest tax rate from 10% to 12%? A 20% increase on the least of us! We can't see enough of the 'gotcha' details, but I'm betting that when they're done stirring the pot, middle class taxpayers, and those of us who are marginally retired, are going to pay more, not less.
1
Maybe it is a good time to go ahead and bankrupt the country. It's already falling apart under Republican "leadership." Maybe it's time to just raze the whole thing and start all over.
38
Let me offer up this incredulous idea. Why don't we as Americans get our soldiers out of so many countries and stop a few wars before we start others? It might reduce the world's anger about us and stop a war. Replacing the word Communist with Terrorist shouldn't be cart blanche. The money (and especially the lives) that are wasted could fund all kinds of tax cuts (and universal healthcare!!)
The inflation of the '70s was blamed on President Johnson's Guns and Butter program. Someone cut taxes around this period too (But I may be wrong). What we have now is Guns and Butter and Lots of Tax Cuts for people who don't need them.
Just because we don't have inflationary pressures now, doesn't mean they will not bite us in the end. As soon as the world trade dampens or a market crashes.. just wait. This will be the basis of a new Theory of Inflation. We have no clue about inflation now. But soon, we'll say... oh that's what happens!
26
The global economic risk, in fact, is a spiraling recession. There are no economies that are growing at spectacular rates. We're all limping along, and Trumpist anti=globalism risks triggering a downward spiral.
Interest rates are so low that there's no room for further growth incentive from the federal reserve or other national/regional banks. And yet, growth in the face of relatively easy money, is at best anemic.
To your point regarding deployed military, we spend almost 150% more on "defense" than we do on running the rest of the government... ($600Bn vs $442Bn) "outta whack" is the kindest thing one can say. If we redirected some of that to infrastructure, we'd find fewer bridges falling down. Or, gee, maybe we could put some in education!
1
Keep the inheritance tax. It starts on inheritance over about 5.5 million dollars on an individual and 11 million on a couple. Why should the rest of taxpayers pick up this tab? I would gladly pay tax on 6 million..
58
Because the wealthy Bought republicans and expect a good return on their investment.
1
Only the portion over 5.5 million is taxed - not the entire 5.5. Estate tax is grossly misunderstood by many. You will hear things like I already paid tax on what I own why should I have to pay it again?
For example, the estate tax tax system includes unrealized appreciation which by definition and actual fact is an amount that has NEVER been taxed. In return, the deceased's cost basis is increased to include the unrealized appreciation so that if an heir were to sell that asset upon immediate receipt the heir would not pay any tax on the built-in gain.
You may have heard that small business and farms have to be liquidated to pay death taxes. In these instances the estate has ten years to pay the tax. Most small business with more than one owner have buy/sell agreements whereby insurance proceeds will be available to the surviving owner(s) to purchase the decedent's portion of the business which will provide the decedent's estate with the cash to pay estate tax.
ESTATE TAX HELPS TO CURTAIL DYNASTIES and we all know what dynasties can produce.
2
Here's the solution. Cut the corporate rate to 15% and tax capital gains at the same rate as wages. Clear and easy, but, of course, unacceptable to the leisure class that earns all their income on investments and not work.
22
The corporate tax cut is estimated to reduce revenues by $2 trillion over a decade. Is this the cost in addition to the tax increases, tax increases on all but the top ten percent, or is this part of the payment for that $2 trillion in lost tax revenue? Do these tax increases extend over a decade as well? It is assumed that would have to be the case right?
6
The Republican math problem can be solved by creative accounting : 2 + 2 = 5
21
No, no, no - it equals 15. Remember tax cuts produce 3x as much revenue. Problem solved.
1
Dead right! The whiz-kid, Paul Ryan, has put together a spreadsheet showing how the budget can be balanced, the deficit eliminated, and the GDP exploded by using Republican arithmetic.
It's the AMT that's throwing them, along with all their high end tax cuts. The AMT is used in the 10 year calculations and it is adjusted every year or two to keep it from hitting almost everyone. But when you keep the AMT in the calculations it shows more, a whole lot more revenue coming in than it ever will. The AMT is the ultimate con game. Only a few understand this numbers game. And the Republican's are right in the middle of a pile of AMT. They're bouncing everything off the CBO right now.
It's going to be interesting what comes out.
8
Virtually all of the 1/10th of the 1% are taxed under the AMT system. That is why they want that gone. Ditto for taxpayers in the top 1, 2, 3% -- in other words, the wealthy pay AMT.
Maybe Betsy DeVos can help with the math. I am sure as a wealthy person, something is in it for her.
And isn't 'rithmetic part of her domain if she isn't shooting grizzlies who are trying to get into school?
20
Repealing the Johnson Amendment is heinous. Patriarchal old men detached from objective reality should NOT be shaping public policy.
38
Aren’t they already?
I have a way to solve your math problem: why don’t you give a tax break to people who actually need a tax break! It would be peanuts compared to balancing your payouts to millionaires by actually increasing the taxes in most middle class people.
19
Reduce the employment taxes. Employee and employer.
I am puzzled and i think my thoughts are actually reflected in other comments.
The statutory rate for business is 35% which is more than in many of the G20 country. But the actual rate paid by corporation is much less, hard to figure out in the publicly available disclosures but allegedly much lower than the 20% which the tax reform under discussion aims at.
Would it be too much to ask for a little transparency and asking how the current actual corporate tax rate would evolve under the proposed tax reform? It seems that otherwise, both sides of the discussions are howling in bad faith. Too high tax, too many reductions. What is the real impact of the proposed reform? We can then start talking if we need another aircraft carrier at $14billion price tag. That is a different discussion about the potentially imperialist aspect of the Defense budget which can be argued to actually support American business overseas with no direct fiscal offset.
12
Federal corporate tax rate is 35%, plus an average of 4.5% state tax. We're a member of the OECD. OECD average rate has fallen steadily over the last 15 years to 24.5%. Yet our rate remains the highest in the OECD world.
The treaty requires that corporations who repatriate foreign tax-paid profits must also pay the difference between the rate of their home country (35%) and the foreign country. (12.5% in Ireland, 20% in the UK, for example.) The result is some $4Trillion warehoused in offshore banks, rather than coming home to invest in plant, equipment, research, and jobs. Or, maybe even to distribute to stockholders.
The average tax rate paid by corporations in 2015 was 12.5%. If we were to move that to a marginal rate of 15%, and drop all industry specific loophole offsets, deductions, allowances, et. cet., we should see economic growth.
(when is a tax reduction actually an increase?) If it resulted in more jobs, paying for it wouldn't be an issue. More folks would be making money and paying taxes. and companies would be paying a bit more, but not so much it'd kill 'em.
1
So many fantasies up in smoke...
You can cut corporate taxes and taxes for the wealthy, take away or limit 401ks, increase the deficits and the economy will boom because you are waving your magical wand and thinking happy thoughts. And oh, no one will even notice.
Donald Trump at the age of 71, will pivot, and behave like an serious adult instead of a carnival act. A feat heretofore unprecedented in his entire life.
Fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you....
24
Cuts, big beautiful tax cuts, cuts to quickly bleed everyone not in the 1%. Cuts for cuts sake.
“Cuts, lies, and deception “ need a new Warren Zevon song.
28
the only math problem is finding the right number of republicans who will stand with the democrats against this nonsense.
34
Republicans: Not a clue. No PPACA replacement. No tax plan. No ability to govern.
14
"Hatch ... says that healthcare should be kept out of the tax bill." What a con job. The Republican budget is going to pay for the tax cuts with $1.5 trillion in cuts to Medicaid and Medicare! Healthcare cuts is exactly what this tax bill is about. These men are lying through their teeth, they are vile people. Call your Congress person, demonstrate outside of their offices and start screaming.
41
You have no idea what you are talking about. You are referring to the procedural vote that had absolutely no substantive effect. Nothing has been cut from Medicare or Medicaid, unfortunately in my view.
I have no problem with them repealing the Johnson Act ... the moment they remove Tax Exempt status from all religious institutions
49
Wouldn't that add more money in the coffers? Maybe all the taxes not paid by "religious" entities could help with real issues if they were brought back into our budget. And while we're looking, there are many tax exempt organizations that have no business (pun intended) being exempt. Now THAT would be reform.
The effective corporate tax rate is currently 19.2%, versus a global rate of 19%. Large corporations who corrupt DC pay zero, and small businesses pay full rate.
Eliminate loopholes and lower rate to 19% and it would be revenue neutral and boost the economy through small business hiring.
Next eliminate the home deduction interest deduction on mortgages above 250k and eliminate the Social Security tax of 7 and 14%
This would put significant money back in the pockets of the middle class, and businesses. Revenue neutral and a huge tax cut for the middle class.
This is why you were elected Trump, do it or we will elect someone who will.
6
Eliminate Social Security? Lets drop Medicare as well. In 20 years half the population will be homeless. Yeah for us
1
Exactly right. Plus -- if you go back to the Reagan tax plan (that model for all conservatives) and make the capital gains rate the same as the income tax rate -- you would save 105 billion a year!!! Currently 62% of that windfall goes to the top 1%. (According to nonpartisan Tax Policy Center). But of course no one in DC is even talking about that.
So much for helping the little guy blue collar worker.
The math is difficult because you cannot give corporations a 15% tax break and then lower taxes for the middle class with a $1.5Trillion limit. Any significant cut at all levels will accrue a significant deficit. So unless they fake a middle class tax decrease by decreasing the percentage while eliminating deductions, the math does not work. In essence corporate taxes will drop but the net tax decrease for the middle class will likely be $0. Unfortunately, so many voters will only look at the percentage and will not realize that losing these deductions will actually lift put into a higher tax bracket.
8
(1) The government's primary source of revenue is taxes.
(2) Cutting taxes without cutting spending will increase debt.
(3) Budget reconciliation rules are restrictive on increasing debt as part of reconciliation therefore the Republicans are looking ways to increase revenue, which puts us back at point #1, i.e., increasing taxes to pay for the loss in revenue.
So, this is really a case of the emperor's clothes, wherein they call it a tax cut but it is really a tax shift. And we all know who is going to be left holding the bag, and it ain't the rich.
16
Ernest Shackleton, the famous Arctic explorer is said to have placed an ad in the London Times on December 29, 1913 seeking men to join him on an expedition to the Antarctic. Although the ad never appeared in the paper that day, and still hasn’t been located in print in any newspaper, it is supposed to have said:
“Men wanted for hazardous journey. Small wages. Bitter cold. Long months of complete darkness. Constant danger. Safe return doubtful. Honor and recognition in case of success.”
27 men answered his call and joined the expedition.
All that can be said about them today with absolute certainty is that none of them were Republicans.
15
If the effective tax rate is actually 18% for corporations, why not just get rid of corporate deductions and breaks and make the nominal rate 20%? No need to reduce individual tax breaks and deductions.
2
Without poor and middle class people, the rich are just people. I’m sure a rude awakening when they realize what they have done to themselves.
6
How to pay for the $1.5 trillion (over a decade) tax cut?
Easy!
Cut the equivalent from our MILITARY spending ($150 billion annually).
The GOP is proposing a 2018 military budget of $640 billion. That's an INCREASE of $60 billion over 2016.
I propose that we eliminate the military budget increases and make our military more cost competitive so that we can reduce by a further $90 billion.
Problem solved. The rich can have their absurdly huge tax reduction and the rest of us can still get our garbage picked up and have a hope of our 911 calls being answered.
23
My favorite quote from the article is the one where a GOP lawmaker admits that the plan to be announced tomorrow is just a placeholder. The real bill will be introduced in the middle of the night and passed without public scrutiny. Whose interests do you suppose will be served in that final version?
44
The GOOFS-ON-PARADE need more integrity. Offer a true MC tax break, cut Corp taxes to 25% rather than 20%, reduce the military budget, provide preferential treatment for 401(k) plans and the state and local tax deduction. Reduce govt waste and stop stealing tax benefits from the MC to cover up that govt waste.
8
"The law, which has been in place since 1954, has been a source of contention for many Christian conservatives who have argued that it restricts the rights of pastors and other religious leaders to speak freely. Mr. Trump has repeatedly vowed to push to eliminate the law."
Tax these phonies.
47
The only math any politician is good at is adding up campaign contributions as they sell their services and themselves to the highest bidder. For Paul Ryan, Mike Pence and Mitch McConnell, that is the Kochs and the Mercers. The rest of us are just pocket change dumped in the penny bowl at the check-out counter.
24
Very few corporations pay 35%. Most pay substantially less and they invest in executive compensation rather than hiring employees or improving infrastructure. Free markets are fine until it doesn't favor them. Then they want protection and incentives. Stop giving corporations tax incentives and breaks. Furthermore, if they register as an overseas entity then they should jump to a 50% tax bracket. Stop pandering to the wealthiest. When Warren Buffet can tell you that proportionally his secretary pays more in taxes than he does, you know something is seriously wrong. Stop giving tax breaks to the wealthiest and corporate America on the backs of the middle class.
19
Kathryn,
Not all corporations are huge multinationals. But even if they were, corporations are the engine of job creation, not government. ((If we all worked for the government, it would be a perpetual motion machine. )) SO, we need to incentivize multinational corporations to invest here, in plant, equipment, and jobs.
Average tax paid by a corporation in the US, in 2015? 12.5%. Loopholes, allowances, set-asides, and whatever are partly responsible. If we dropped the corporate tax rate to 15% federal (plus an average of 4.5% for states), we would permit multinational firms to repatriate foreign earned, tax-paid profits, with out taxing them again. If repatriated, they could be invested in jobs here. And we could write provisions requiring that, rather than simply piddling them away to the bottom line, or to increase executive compensation. OH...and we would have to cut out all the industry specific special provisions, in order to get the marginal rate down.
I see that we have high corporate tax rates, but competitive effective tax rates - because of deductions. Well, what if we had the actual corporate rates, and then corporations can call their customers to provide some relief, voluntarily. If one believes strongly in corporate cash, one can give. Then write it off like a charitable contribution. I will pay my $100 verizon bill, they can call me for more so they don't pay the onerous 35%. We'll see if I am still married to the low tax option. I will want my deduction for forking over cash to the verizon cause. ps, i like verizon they just were the first example.
See Paul Ryan purposely mislead the public on corporate taxes.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/09/18/speaker-r...
In 1775 Dr. Samuel Johnson wrote a response to the revolutionaries and the colonies. The response entitled Taxation No Tyranny still reads like a response to your GOP. America was indeed fortunate that the rebels of 1775 were not the men who took over the governance of the United States of America. If we change the cries of the revolution from being anti-Catholic and anti-tax to the same cries we hear from the GOP decrying taxes Mexicans Muslims and other foreigners we are back in the good old days.
Dr Johnson was the voice of conservatism in 1775 and we still the bigotry and racism echoed by his political heirs today. Dr Johnson was a genius and a man of letters but even without a background in mathematics his understanding of taxes and arithmetic far exceeded the capabilities of such math wizards as Trump and Ryan.
http://www.samueljohnson.com/tnt.html
6
A lot of people will hate this, but perhaps its about time for a nationwide internet sales tax. Anything sold gets a .5% tax.
Or at least close the loopholes that currently exist for firms like Amazon that collect no sales tax in some states. The billions in revenue/profit that made Bezos the richest man in the world was greatly done by allowing people to buy the same product on the internet as in a store, but avoid paying the state and local sales tax.
People may argue that sales tax is at the state level. True, but if more states collect the revenue they should be getting, maybe the federal government would be able to give them less.
3
If this applies to every stock transaction, service, acquisition, etc, I totally support this. Why tax just physical goods?
5
Maybe they could tax breathing, so much per hour...
If the congressional Republicans need help with their math, go ask Kansas:
Massive tax cuts for corporations + lowering taxes on wealthy
=
massive budget deficits , sluggish growth, closing schools/police/fire services and a lowering of states bond rating.
Pretty simple.
33
The problem the Republicans are creating by trying to rush this through is that they are not building any case that any of the provisions will increase economic growth or create better jobs. It is all about reducing taxes to people that already have money.
14
Unveiling a tax plan is not like unveiling the health care bill. They can lie and say “no one loses coverage” because the details are buried deep in the, well, details. But with the tax plan, all you have is math. And math is tough to spin. The Republican spin machine is good, and dare I say even brilliant, but they may have met their match in the purity of math!
10
Republicans ? Math ?
Do they know their equation must end in "= $1.5 trillion" ?
I think I have a better chance at explaining Friedmann's universe big bang and accelerated expansion equations.
3
They had to put it off until Thursday because they needed to order more smoke and mirrors from Amazon.com and they are too cheap to get Amazon Prime.
8
Lower the corporate income tax level, but institute an alternative minimum tax (indexed to inflation), so that all profitable corporations pay some tax. Why should a company like Apple make billions of profit domestically and pay zero tax because they can afford an army of accountants? Another possibility is tie the decrease in taxes with an increase in employment and wages for non-senior management. Taxes decrease and jobs increase! Trump can have a two-fer brag.
2
The devil is in the details.... but it's overly simplistic and irresponsible to lump in corporate tax rates with personal tax rates.
Corporations are the engine of job creation, and right now our corporate rates are forcing multinationals to warehouse over $4Trillion in offshore banks. And that money is AFTER companies paid taxes on the profits, in the countries where they were earned.
IF that money were repatriated, companies would have to pay the difference between the marginal tax rates of the US and the foreign entity where the profits were earned. We're the highest in the planet, with 35% federal, plus an average of 4.5% state tax... or 7% here in VT. So it could be 42% tax rate, as compared with 12.5% in Ireland, or 20% in the UK. On average, OECD nations, of which are one, charge 24.5%, and that's steadily declined over the last 15 years, while we have remained at 35% +.
How to pay for corporate tax reductions? Simple. On average, companies paid 12.5% last year. Industry specific loophole deductions, set-asides, and offsets were involved, too. BUT, if we were to remove those industry specific loopholes, and set the rate down to 15%, say, it would be an average INCREASE. Plus, it would permit firms to repatriate foreign earnings now stored in offshore banks.
AND, if we were halfway creative, we could provide tax credit incentives for repatriated funds invested in plant, equipment and jobs. More employment, more folks paying tax.
2
Hello, Congress people and White House people, here's how most business and household budgets go.....
Step 1 - Here's what I/we can afford: $X
Step 2 - Here's what I/we want: $Y
If Y > X, then something needs to be cut, until Y = X, or Y < X.
It's actually quite simple. If you want more than you can afford, then you don't deserve to be in business or to live unsupervised.
The worst violators of the basics seem to be the nouveau riche, of which there are many in elected positions. As many of the newly-rich have discovered about their personal wealth, "easy come, easy-go," as their decision-making skills became unfocused once they falsely believed that they "had it made." These are the people who are trying to game the tax code, with the help of some truly-wealthy outsiders supported by lobbyists, all of whom could care less about the deleterious results suffered by middle class and blue collar families.
3
The Republican 'tell' here is their complaining about how "complex" the tax code is, when the things that they are trying to tweak are actually pretty simple to understand -- state/local/property tax deductibility, the estate tax, and the tax brackets that individuals have. Saying that we need to cut the corporate tax rate to help the average American really ups the ante in stupidity -- it would be simpler and way more effective to just lower the tax rates on those earning middle-class or lower wages. Don't touch the estate tax, which only the wealthiest families pay (they can afford it, trust me). Maybe slightly increase the preferential rate treatment of dividends and long-term capital gains (raising from 15% to, say, 20%). And perhaps look into a micro-tax on investment transactions. It's not brain surgery, but boy (R)s sure like muddying the waters to confuse the average uninformed taxpayer.
7
It's all smoke-and-mirrors. There's utterly no doubt that the not-to-exceed $1.5T requirement will be met cleverly, with the actual debt increase in the $4-5T range. The same applies to tax rates: everyone who pays 35 or 39.6 can well-afford lawyers and CPS to shelter their income. When it's all signed and the gold stars passed out, we the people--and our descendents for decades to come--will pick up the tab. It won't be pretty. And there's precious-little you and I can do about it.
I don't think it's a math problem as much as it is a reality problem.
10
I’m in complete agreement that the Johnson Amendment be repealed - as long as it is accompanied by a repeal of the tax-exempt status enjoyed by religious institutions.
16
They seem to be a large group with Fredo Corleone's DNA. They seem to want to stick it to us, but not if we are watching. No tax cuts for business and the wealthy, they have been doing just fine.
3
It's important to remember that a number of key GOP officials and players don't care about running up debt. They are following a two-part strategy:
1. Tax cuts now for the rich and powerful, with unrealistic promises to pretend to offset the cost
2. Then, when it is clear the promises aren't working and the national debt is increasing, they will use that as a reason to attack Social Security and Medicare. It doesn't matter that these are perhaps the two most successful government programs of all time, they are part of the path to self-destruction our country is on.
15
It makes sense to cut the corporate tax rate. It also makes sense to increase the marginal rates on high incomes - earned by those who, in effect, will be the principle beneficiaries of any corporate rate cut. Someone needs to pay for revenue loss, why not the folks who will in effect be getting big raises (by virtue of their positions as owners and top managers of the corporations). Problem solved.
4
“So if I have any problems, I will be blaming Mnuchin and Cohn,” Mr. Trump said ahead of a cabinet meeting.
This guy doesn't know how to run a company, let alone a government. His followers love the low morale aspect of the Trump administration.
Well, Right Wing Christians love Trump's insults in the name of Jesus Christ. They'll get their repeal of the Johnson Amendment that allows them to slip further into corrupt politics.
Maybe Trump envisions funding his tax plan the way he manages his company: declare multiple bankruptcies and don't pay the creditors.
37
It does??? I am pretty good with math and I could solve it for them with some assistance from the IRS on what changes would cost. It is simple, control the economic assumptions, eliminate many credits and deductions especially for the "rich", don't touch 401Ks, just make it work. Pretty simple!!!
7
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (paraphrasing H.L. Mencken)
The real problem is that they want to cut taxes (especially those affecting their donors) but not popular programs .... because they would like to get reelected. And unfortunately for the Republicans, the policies which "serious" conservatives have been proposing in the past 20 years aren't very popular.
There are various ways to try to get the "rich" to pay more, but not all of them are economically beneficial. I wish we could simplify our tax code (it's a real pain filing taxes if you have any complex situations) ... I just distrust easy answers.
Does Trump tell the truth about anything?
Lies, Lies Lies and when they fail, more Lies.
Despicable Trump with his despicable administration of lying toadies are a stain on the national honor.
Now he's selling the traditional Republican Tax "Policy" of massive tax cuts for the wealthy paid for by massive Federal deficits over the next decade.
The Republicans defend the interests of the wealthy, and only the wealthy. They have nothing but lightly veiled contempt for every other American.
In 2018 let's pay them back in kind.
36
Deductions are not evil - they are the way we the people, through our government, promote activities that are positive for our society. Donating to charities, buying a home, hiring employees here in America, etc. - these deductions are not the problem - excessive donations, donations that reward pointless or negative behavior - that's the problem.
Republicans present solutions as if complexity is the problem, and just being simple solves it all. It doesn't. The real world is complex, good solutions often are complex as well. Trying to put through a rush job on taxes without time to study and learn the consequences is just plain stupid.
48
That is why the bill is not yet ready, it is pretty simple just math. And you make a great point, we need to eliminate many tax benefits that encourage things. Like buying electric cars, producing wind and solar electricity, and some deductions for the rich. Assume that the economy will grow at say 4.5 percent on average, perhaps 5 percent. More jobs means more taxes and less welfare.
1
Amen, brother. And if the devil is in the details....he's evidently a member of the overly simplistic GOP.
What I don't get is how anyone can have a straight face when proposing a tax program which increases taxes on the lowest earners by 20%.
It's time to start taking bids on fence rails, tar and feathers...and planning their use in the 2018 mid terms.
4
More jobs without safety regulations mean more injuries. More jobs at minimum wage (or effectively below, by limiting working hours) mean more food stamps and Medicaid.
Of course you could cancel all of the above and save money. Those who starve to death or die of non-communicable diseases cost absolutely nothing if you throw them in a trench.
2
The Republicans screamed and yelled that the ACA was passed with "no bipartisan support." The difference is that the ACA had a year's worth of hearings and hundreds of amendments, many by Republicans
Now the Republicans want to pass a tax giveaway to the ultra-rich with no bipartisan support, but this time with no debate and not even any details.
They are trying to jam $4 trillion in goodies into the $1.5 trillion that they need in order to pass this without any Democratic votes.
We are now used to Republican hypocrisy. It is their standard operating procedure. But when hypocrisy is paired with utter robbery of the American public, it becomes more than hypocrisy. It is criminal activity by a growing kleptocracy. The public has virtually no defense from this utter theft.
Except, of course, that these crooks can be voted out of office. They deserve to be! 2018 cannot come too soon.
43
No worries, when this massive tax cut for the wealthy is revealed, the middle class American will type a few characters in their tax software and realize they’ve been had. Their tax bill will rise and the hypocrisy of the GOP and the broken Trump promises and many lies will all be revealed.
13
Likely true. Question is whether the 2018 mid terms will install a set of responsible candidates in congress, or if we'll have to wait for 2020.
It's too late then. Just as it was when Social Security was made part of the general fund and now you have so called representatives calling it entitlements. Let's stop entitlements to the wealthies and corporate America now!
4
It's so comforting to know that "nearly two dozen leaders of major business groups — including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the American Petroleum Institute and the American Farm Bureau Federation" were invited to the White House on Tuesday morning to discuss the bill. How about holding a roundtable with two dozen individual taxpayers: teacher, doctors, cashiers, engineers, homeowners, to hear what they have to say? This tells you all you need to know about who the government serves.
48
YATL (Yet Another Trump Lie), quoted at the end of the article:
“The Democrats will say our tax bill is for the rich, but they know it’s not,” he said. He added, “The Democrats want to raise taxes and really create obstruction, and the Republicans want to lower taxes, and we want to get rid of regulations.”
The simple truth, evident to anyone reading this tax manipulation proposal:
The Republicans want to lower taxes on the rich, raise taxes on everyone else, and get rid of regulations that protect us from the predations of the 0.01%.
The real marvel is that any US voter, other than the 0.01% and their purchased GOP legislators, would vote for the GOP tax manipulation. But then that is exactly why the 0.01% purchased the GOP legislators.
16
A recurring theme. A decade of hype about a solution to a substantial problem. (Healthcare, Taxation) Then when it is time to get something done it becomes painfully obviously that there has been no effort by the GOP pseudo-wonks to actually develop a plan. So for the next month or so we can watch as they fumble the tax effort and then they can proceed to F-up infrastructure.
13
Math? Isn't that in the same bucket as "science?" We can just ignore that -- fake news. No one in the GOP knows anything about math. They can't be bothered with that stuff.
17
Here's what a new tax code should lool like:
Eliminate the carried interest loophole
Tax capital gains as ordinary income
Allow the self employed or those without company health insurance who buy from exchanges to deduct their premiums like big corporations do
Allow mortgage interest deduction on only one's primary residence
Make the lowest rate 5%, but make even low income earners pay it.
Make the top bracket 45%
Unrelated to income tax: do away with the caps on Social Security withholding, you must pay 7.5% into SS on ALL income.
24
Yes of course, NO, Maybe, Yes and it should be limited to say 500K of borrowing, NO the poor don't have money and that would punish them, NO, and NO!!!
1
pretty close to what I would say as well. I would simply cap the mortgage interest deduction (base the limit on dollars instead of houses) and would also phase it out. Its actually not very good policy and doesn't really promote home ownership. If the federal government wants to promote homeownership (and I'm not necessarily saying it should), it should just give everyone a once-in-a-time $20,000 grant toward buying a home. The grant would have to be paid back if the home-owner sells and becomes a renter.
I like it, I like it a lot, so I guess that means it will never come to fruition. I really like the part about removing the cap on SS. That by itself does away with the hand ringing over viability of the program.
3
A bill crafted by Republicans in secret. What could go wrong?
29
So apparently, the deductions for medical expenses, and the small exemptions that allow you to keep your grandparents or parents alive are far less important than the taxation schemes for multinational corporations... America, as it was conceived by the Founders, has been destroyed by lobbyists and politicians that serve only money.
12
"the specifics of how the plan might affect tax-free retirement savings"
There are no tax free retirement savings! There are tax deferred retirement savings. If your tax rate is lower when you take money out of your 401(k) than when you put it in, then you come out ahead. But the benefit is not much, and people should be aware of that.
7
The benefit is that there is more money to invest initially due to the tax deferral. But, yes, you do eventually pay taxes, unless you are fortunate enough to pass it in to your kids...then they eventually pay the taxes. The really well off can defer taxes longer!
2
The only way to get true tax reform, or better, true government reform is to vote all of the Republicans out of office.
I am not saying the Democrats are perfect, but the Republican have gone insane, and now are being ruled by mentally challenged people. They must be marginalized.
18
They are ethically challenged, having abandoned all pretense of rationality. See latest Boehner interview.
2
GOP, especially Paul Ryan, is not policy whiz. They are ideologue. Their math is stuck in their middle school.
9
It's all backwards. First, there should be no tax cuts. Second, there should be tax increases, on upper incomes. Third, the additional revenues should be spent on public infrastructure and other public goods benefiting society at large. This is not difficult to figure out, but of course politically anathema to Republicans.
19
NO. Raise the fuel tax and other user fees to pay for needed infrastructure improvements. That does not include internet, or other utilities owned by corporations or local governments.
3
Just pathetic!
The GOP can only oppose and tear down. They cannot seem to create anything, solve any problems, build anything. And that's with eight years to think about it!
10
the estate tax is necessary so we do not become France, before the guillotine. it's not about the 2 family farms worth more than $11m. it's the USA reverting to pre-revolutionary inequality with landed nobility. why should we have any "billionaire babies" rather than 10,000 babies with $100,000 each for education? Reinstate and make it progressive and capped. Ending it will devastate charities too.
9
No it is not, do what was done in 2010, when you inherit an asset its tax basis goes with it. So inherit cash no tax, inherit a farm no tax unless and until you sell, a business, stock, anything, you pay when you sell just as everyone else. The very wealthy get around this tax, normal people don't pay it either.
1
This isn't a math problem - it's an arithmetic problem. It simply doesn't add up.
6
Does anyone think this is how we get 'good' legislation in this country. They are leaving the 'People' out and working for the corporations and wealthy.
I bet Jefferson, Madison, and Adams are spinning in their graves watching this circus act in DC. McConnell and Ryan should be ashamed, but they, like their boss up the street only care about winning.
If you are looking to where our country went wrong, look at Congress, it started there, and infected the rest of Washington.
7
One of the larger fallacies of the GOP proposal centers on the notion that a corporation will pass the tax breaks to their workers or customers. Granted I don't have the greatest memory in the world but I can't recall a corporation passing a tax break to workers or customers. Any money the corporation saves will go to the shareholders, to the corporation to buy their own shares, and the board of directors.
12
Good points but they might go to investments that might create jobs. I greatly doubt they will increase wages unless more job opportunities require higher compensation. They might pay down debt as well if they have some.
1
Right! That is the only real obligation of the management of the corporation, maximize return to the owners. Rarely has anyone created a company or run one to pay employees more or to hire more. That goes against their charter...make more money for the owners. People who say otherwise are wrong.
2
One thing for sure, Democrats and fiscal conservatives, hate what is being marketed as "tax reform". The same groups, which hated various forms of "repeal and replace" "Obamacare".
The conservatives will not accept "tax reform" because it doe snot cut taxes far enough. And the Democrats won't accept it, because of the harm it will do to millions of people.
So, passage or failure, may come down to a few Senators who may want "tax reform", but not at the expense of raising both the deficit and taxes on the middle class.
The Tax Reform Act of 1986 to many hearings, and months of bi-partisan work to pass. A major accomplishments for a Republican President (Reagan) and a Democrat dominated Congress.
Like "repeal and replace", the Republicans are trying to rush something through which was poorly conceived, poorly designed and draconian in nature. And they are doing so just to pass something to give to Trump to sign.
This is not how this is suppose to work, or how it should work. Whatever they release tomorrow deserves to go down in flames. And, considering that there are many more stakeholders with taxes, then there were with health care, what exists today will be met with major opposition.
Congress needs to work with both political parties to come up with an acceptable tax reform measure. But, before they do that, they need to determine the prudence of tax cuts, in the face of war, the existing debt, infrastructure needs, etc.
6
Math Problem Bedevils Republican Tax Rewrite
[ A wildly ironic headline, but I know it is correct. ]
4
Almost as good as one in Opinion this past weekend:
"Words, Not Action, from Mr. Trump on Opioids"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/26/opinion/opioids-trump-emergency.html
We, as a nation, have never been besieged by so many liars, con men, and fakes in our history. From the cabinet to our own GOP supporting neighbors who are losing healthcare (anything is better than nothing) and favorable tax breaks. We are beset by Fox, Sinclair, Trump's fake news machine, Spicer, Huckabee, Kelly, Pruitt, all motivated to lie by the GOP and Trump for some reason. What am I missing? What happened to our country? Is there something in the water? Even our tech giants are turning against the country that gave them the fertile ground for their growth and success by lying and playing dumb. What happened?
15
The GOP does not need math.
They got magical thinking.
18
Here is a math problem Republicans are quite familiar with---and one that Democrats either cannot fathom--or want to ignore.
Barack Obama increased our national debt from 10 trillion to nearly 20 trillion. that simply means, Democrats cannot have anything constructive to say about our debt. When they were in charge--they behaved like Democrats and drunken sailors.
Well...perhaps I own an apology to all the drunken sailors out there.
2
Sorry. Your false facts don't fly here. If you want to blame someone start with Bush II. Country was running a surplus when Clinton left office.
7
Did you forget about the recession that occurred just as Obama took office? Would you have preferred that he did nothing to remedy the faltering economy left to him by his predecessor? To insinuate that the Obama administration simply increased spent money for the sake of it and to promote their interests and it to work to stabilize and revitalize the economy post-recession is somewhat misleading. Maybe the focus should be on the republicans who's last administration put our country's economy in such a precarious and dangerous position.
4
Yes: Obama put back INTO the budget the Gulf War and other goodies G. W Bush put on a credit card and expected us not to notice.
Tell me now: which of them was acting in a fiscally responsible manner?
5
Am I crazy, but have any Senators or Congressman involved in this tax debacle ever had to budget or live on an allowance? Obviously, Trump has always had a silver spoon (a gold-plated one) in his mouth, has never really "worked", done laundry, cooked, washed dishes, grocery shopped, changed a diaper (including his) or wiped his own ---. That we know. The "Man of the People" is as far distanced from them as we are from Alpha Centauri. If Congress cannot add 1 + 1 and come up with 2, why are we letting them try to write tax law - especially in secret - and slip it by in an end run? Basic 10-year-old principle: YOU CAN'T SPEND WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE (unless you're an idiot and will eventually declare bankruptcy). They cannot put a chicken in every pot or a Tesla in every garage (except theirs). Lots of austerity will be necessary before we can inflate our already bloated national debt. The time to start is NOW. It should have carried over from the Clinton era, when we had a surplus. There are ALWAYS emergencies and national disasters - we don't need to manufacture any more. Getting rid of Trump would go a long way to insuring that.
4
Of course there's a problem---Republicans don't know any math.
8
They believe in "rosy scenarios" and "magic asterisks".
You can look it up.
1
It would be nice if people didn't keep declaring to the world that we are now a caste society. Rich, Middle Class, Poor. Politicians should wash their mouths with soap. We used to all be American citizens, not Top Class American, Middle Class American, and Hardly Important American. Shame, shame, shame.
2
Not to worry. Republicans are trying to eliminate the Middle Class.
1
you mean 1 + 1 is not 3
5
Help for republican math:
Give Betsy DeVos the Noblesse Oblige prize in new math. She can then make up whatever formula House republicans need to make their tax cuts into fake gifts to the poor and middle class - and budget neutral.
Declare the defense budget to be covered by ‘national security dollars’ (or NSD) outside the real budget. Make NSD spending immune to regulation, oversight, or criticism.
Exaggerate the multiplier effect of tax cuts. Maybe 10-30% in return to the treasury is supported by the economic literature. Instead, it’s all fake news! Make the multiplier 200-500%. It’d be criminal not to absolve the rich of paying ANY taxes, like it was just before the French Revolution.
Lable any and all criticisms of their tax plan as fake news by Russian trolls in coordination with the Clinton Foundation.
7
Considering our huge national debt, it is beyond irresponsible to cut taxes, period. IMHO, doing so is an act of treason; a flagrant disregard for the health and welfare of our Nation.
14
Business interests, unlike many individual Republican voters, know when their ox is being gored, and by whom. This makes tax “reform” just another GOP pipe dream.
2
How nice that the Heritage Foundation is helping out with this 'math problem'. The same people who predicted that Bush's tax cut would eliminate the national debt in 10 years.
32
Another Republican train wreck of a bill basically. Middle class and lower class people will have raised taxes. Eliminating deductions for state and local income taxes means that blue states which already pay more in federal taxes and receive less than the red states will shoulder a much higher part of the burden while letting red states coast. Some states like Georgia also have state income taxes. Individual deductions will be hit hard, while the wealthy will reap 80% of the tax breaks according to some studies. Trillions will be added to the national deficit.
Whatever happened to infrastructure repair? America is in desperate need for roads and bridges and ports and airports to come into the 21st century instead of lapsing ever further behind those of other advanced nations. What about disaster funding? It was inadequate to begin with, and four major disasters just hit the country. That won't stop.
Nine million poor children just lost their health insurance when the GOP Congress let the long established CHIP program die, and with it many of the children in the future. 800,000 Dreamers (tax payers) are being kicked out of the country with astounding cruelty. One such Dreamer is the 10-year-old girl with cerebral palsy who has lived here since she was a tiny baby. Trump's Gestapo surrounded her following critical surgery and moved her away from her family into a detention center. She has legal relatives.
Trump's cruelty is in his money trail of tears.
24
The real problem the Repubs are trying to hide is that the tax bill will blow out the deficit. They'll put in little rewards for this or that group, maybe take a real stab at some groups without strong organized lobbying efforts, all to try and squeak through with a enough votes from the bribed and bought off to get a simple majority in the house and senate. A few years down the line, the rubes in the non-1% will finally figure out that the extra $245/year they "saved" as a result of the tax cuts, they had actually borrowed from themselves, and would now be paying back to the Chinese, with interest. Any tax "cut" exacted when the country is running a deficit is a scam. It's just a question of who's getting scammed.
12
You bet the GOP has a math problem, if you're poor or middle class that is. If your rich, or uber rich, them the math looks great, because when it all goes sideways, the rich won't care since they won't be left holding the proverbial tax bag. No those that will benefit most are protected by the Paul Ryan's and Mitch McConnell's of the world.
Not to mention the hypocrisy of the GOP and their accusing Obama of raising the deficit. When they themselves are willing to impoverish millions of people for their own financial gains. Not to mention the children born into debt given to them by congress.
7
An excerpt from a great column in today's WaPost reveals why the Trump/GOP tax cut plan creates a giant loophole to sharply lower taxes for the wealthy.
"Republicans will be opening up a loophole for the rich to cut their tax bills that’s so big you could drive a Mercedes-Maybach S-Class Pullman through it. They plan to introduce a new 25 percent rate for “pass-through” income for businesses that pay all their profits to individuals. Chances are that your dentist and your lawyer organize their businesses as pass-throughs, but right now they pay regular income-tax rates on what they earn. If the Republican change goes through, enormous numbers of wealthy people will incorporate pass-through businesses to take advantage of this rate. To use an example I’ve offered before, if you’re a chief executive making $40.4 million a year and this bill becomes law, you could make yourself a “consultant,” have your company pay your “small business” instead of giving you a paycheck, and presto, you just got a tax break of $5.8 million."
17
Ryan the policy wonk can't do math, who knew.
15
Paul Ryan thought his 4 hour Marathon time was a "Sub 3 hour Marathon".
4
Perhaps the GOP tax specialists should invest in a new Ouija Board based on Trump logic...
6
I've read all of the first 68 comments to this story and there isn't a single one that doesn't condemn the GOP tax proposal. Is there anyone out there who wants to explain why this is a good tax bill?
12
"Is there anyone out there who wants to explain why this is a good tax bill"
Sure! Ask any Republican voter. They believe anything as long as it comes from rightwing media.
3
Fox news and Sara Huckabee will explain why this is a good tax bill.
This isn’t a math problem. It’s a misguided policy wonk problem.
I hope Paul Ryan’s career goes down in flames over this. And he’s not even filthy rich, so I don’t know why he keeps insisting on agendas to help the filthy rich at the expense of us average working folks.
11
The tax breaks will benefit Trump and his Cabinet.
13
The existential need for Trump to be in the White House to sign this theft into law is the only thing standing between Trump and the abyss of Republican revolt. If and when this bill gets signed, Ryan, McConnell and their cronies will no longer need Trump, and can release the hounds whenever Mueller deals a solid on-target blow, or Trump's nonsense on any number of topics next becomes a net negative. Sooner the better for this kabuki to play out - please before Trump distracts us all with a patriotic nuclear war, OK?
3
"Republicans think the poor got too much money, and the rich ain't got enough...", old southern saying before southerners all got fooled into thinking having your gun was more important than having a democracy.
12
Republicans will not pass their tax cuts, and Donald will have nothing but indictments to show for his 286 days in office!
Good!
5
Actually--if you want to free up money for investment, business creation, and spending by the little people, the lower middle to middle class average Vanguard investor with their life savings in a 401 K, and a modest home, you might lower the capital gains a bit based on income, shore up health care so it's affordable and transportable, so teachers, writers, and artists and really small business owners with moderate retirement savings don't flee to Canada or France or Portugal based on the fear of health care costs... and of being bankrupted by taking care of their elderly parents....
Most of us aren't worrying about how to pay for our Ferrari mechanics, but how to keep our second-hand Subaru's running and provide help for the aged P's. Most of us can't and would not seek out fancy lawyers for slippery deductions.... And most of us have no problem paying our fair share of taxes; it the price of civilization.
44
Seeing Republicans struggle with math while insisting that tax cuts don't increase the deficit is like seeing Evangelicals struggle with biology while insisting that evolution doesn't. Republicans and Evangelicals would find their struggle less taxing if they believed in math and science to begin with.
21
It is the yearly tax tables that drive how much a person's tax bill is. Every deduction allowed has a value and this value is figured into the yearly tax table. Take away the deduction and the yearly tax table changes. Deductions are what complicate our tax system. Those that cannot deduct Mortgage Interest are jealous of those that can. If taxpayers want a 'fair' tax system, then deductions must go and everyone gets the same treatment with the yearly tax table.
1
The death tax says it all. Eliminating it primarily benefits the rich, and keeping it encourages democracy by slowing the growth of an aristocracy. Taxing the dead strikes me as an excellent idea, encouraging each generation to earn for itself and being the least painful on the living.
26
We should be wise to these tricks by now.
The Republicans' principal objective is to give their financial backers, already some of the wealthiest human beings who ever lived, even more money than they already have. Said wealthy donors are already stamping their expensively shod feet and threatening to hold their breaths till they turn blue unless such a tax cut is passed.
This tax plan also has the advantage, from the party leadership's point of view, of serving as a first step in the plan of the Selfish and Callous Libertarian wing. Since anyone who passed grade school arithmetic and remembers the 1980s can tell that cutting taxes on the wealthy while beefing up the military will explode the federal deficit, once this happens, the Selfish and Callous Libertarian wing of the party will suddenly turn into deficit hawks and declare that any programs that benefit the middle and lower classes must be either eliminated (to satisfy their inner Scrooge) or privatized (to satisfy the business ambitions of themselves or their cronies).
A third advantage is that most Americans don't understand how the tax system works beyond their own 1040 (EZ or otherwise) forms, so they will be suckers for promises of a $4000 increase in kept income. Too bad about the extra they will have to shell out to make up for the lack of government services.
5
Rewrite the Headline:
Moral Problem Bedevils Republican Tax Rewrite
14
Who knew arithmetic was so hard? (To be read with a Trumpian whine.)
9
@Jack be Quick - 'Who knew arithmetic was so hard?'
His professors at Wharton.
The Wharton Business School where DJT took a few classes while an undergrad at Wharton (not the business school as DJT likes to fool people into believing) has just declared Mr. Trump's tax proposal fallacious contrary to almost all of his assertions.
Maybe it's time to see his college grades like he told us Obama should do.
By his own admission he's 'a really smart guy' (just like Fredo Corleone)
3
I think I see the crux of the problem: too many pigs at the trough.
11
It is simple math- tax cuts for the wealthy and large corporations, no money for the country to run the country, bleed the middle class.
GOP philosophym- pretend this is a good thing for the country
12
Paul Ryan is a vacuously grinning dimwit who keeps trying to pass himself off as a polymath.
75
Haha - I love this description of Paul Ryan - vacuously grinning dimwit!
4
Susan, Paul Ryan is a polymath. Any time he does a math problem, he comes up with several different answers at the same time.
2
The problem is simple: To cut taxes for the rich, everyone else's real and de facto taxes (e.g., "fee" increases that are not technically taxes) must go up.
There is NO other way to cut taxes for the rich.
18
Actually, there is a way to cut taxes for the rich, while also cutting taxes for everyone else too. The US spends dramatically more on the military and on health care than every other nation on earth. Reigning in military spending, and shifting to a single payer health insurance system, would dramatically reduce federal expenditures, and thus allow tax cuts more or less across the board.
This would result in slightly less employment in the defense and health insurance industries, which are basically very wealthy welfare recipients now. The decrease in employment in these areas, which are very poor at creating jobs, would likely be more than compensated for in job increases in other more productive areas.
Of course, this will never happen. But it's a nice thought.
3
The one-percent elite thrive on a boom/bust economy. For during a bust they invest, always having excess liquid cash unaffected and at the ready. So when a stock falls to a dollar a share, or real estate dives -- they swoop in and buy buy buy.
The middle class and the poor, however, get decimated during bust time, no cash at the ready to take advantage. While the rich, with cash at hand, swoop in and buy as the middle class and poor are forced to sell.
Trump's ultimatums on taxes further cement this pattern of boom and bust for it would deregulate the govt., take its financial powers away with less financial leverage, strap it down to never-ending debt, and give control and leverage to Wall Street, thereby enabling Wall Street to further fix, predict, and take advantage of the boom/bust pattern.
This pattern is what creates the mega-wealthy inequity and depletes the middle class, making them more paycheck to paycheck, more in debt, more on their heels after a bust.
Tax the one-percent to make our economy less boom/bust, more steady so the middle class can grow.
13
I believe it is Grover Norquist sitting next to Ryan in the picture. That says it all The ghost of Leona Helmsly is standing behind him.. "Only the little people pay taxes".
34
By demonizing the Democrats, the Republicans have painted themselves into a corner. They don't have a large enough majority to pass these unpopular bills. If they were rational, they would compromise with the Democrats, to draft bills that were actually better for the country.
If they do pass their tax plan, their base may finally turn on them when the effects are felt.
14
"There is a math problem"
I never realized arithmetic could be so complicated!
13
“Our lawmakers in those high-tax states really believe their families are being punished the most by property taxes,” Mr. Brady said, adding that those taxes “are not based on your ability to pay — they’re just painful.”
This is really just doublespeak to justify them raising taxes on lower income and middle income Americans. If you're a renter, you don't get to write off a property tax bill. The combination of losing deductions for state and local taxes, AND sales taxes, AND limiting how much you can contribute to your 401k (if you have one), all amounts to an outright assault on the working class. Will these working class voters that put Trump into office realize this, or will they continue to find some way to blame the Democrats? Who stands to benefit when people are forced to start opening Roth IRA accounts? The swamp is alive and well, and it downright stinks.
10
Remember when we could deduct credit card interest as well. Also, not having to claim interest income under $400. Ah, the good ol' days.
6
And remember: the GOP sold you those 1986 tax changes not as a "tax increase" (which is was) but as a "tax simplification".
GOP doublespeak, doubleplus ungood.
The republican bill really isn’t one! No one has seen it, it changes daily and in the end it will simply be a giveaway to the wealthy. Even the tax brackets as outlined by the president raise taxes on the lowest earners so don’t tell me it’s a tax cut for the ones who can least afford it. The republicans tried this with health care, a star chamber met and spit something out but went now where. The same should happen here but in this mess the rich are up to getting richer so I dought if we will see anytype of reform that helps. Oh and how are the republicans paying for this? That hasn’t been addressed unless they thing trickle down will somehow work in this century.
6
At the end of the day, Congress will do what it does best, nada (with the exception of cashing their paychecks).
5
In the case of what trump has proposed, doing nothing is the correct path.
Paul Ryan has never been able to do basic math and it seems that none of the other Republicans can either. The real puzzle is why voters have failed to figure this out.
12
I’m sure Paul Ryan and his crew can do the math. The problem is that the math is not going to be good for the middle class. Then again, middle class voters don’t donate much to those candidates relative to what they get from billionaires, so they can’t expect to get treated well in the bill. That’s the basic math that really matters!
4
1) Tax cuts do NOT pay for themselves. How many times do we have to repeat this failed experiment? 2) Explain to me how eliminating the estate tax is going to boost the economy (sorry it only concentrates wealth in the hands of fewer people). Note to "high tax" blue states...cut SALT (state and local taxes) while increasing estate taxes to 40%. 3) Why can't the Republicans just cut the corporate tax rate to 20% (while eliminating various loopholes which effectively lower current rate to well below the current 35% and the current income taxes where they are...this way if there is an increase in economic activity we could attribute it this one action,otherwise the Republicans are performing a multi-variable experiment which will give uninterpretable results. 4) As we all know too well the Republicans believe deficits and the debt are only problems when a Democrat is in White House. BTW which administration last ran a surplus? Oh yeah it was Bill Clinton's. Republicans talk about fiscal responsibility, Democrats practice it.
17
To be more accurate, their dilemma is how to fund the kickbacks they owe to their corporate and elite campaign donors, either by borrowing more from the public at large, or taking more. This is how the unlimited Citizens United donor scam works, buy enough congressmen and senators, and then get a big rebate, and more, through tax concessions and give backs funded by the middle class and poor through taxes and reduction in public programs and sale of public assets like parks and national monuments.
8
An obvious solution: gore all oxen. Eliminate all individual and corporate deductions, retaining only personal and charitable deductions. In a revenue-neutral manner reset the tax rates in each bracket and the corporate rate. Put everyone and every corporation in the same boat so that we can possibly start to row together. Probably an easy bet that the new rates will be much, much lower than now. A certainty that doing your taxes will be way simpler.
3
And how manys in-session days are left until the Thanksgiving break? To the end of the year?
And since it's time to get ready for the 2018 elections, all sides will have a WHOLE lot of minutia to look at and claim as a sales point to their particular audience.
I guess it will be time again for McConnell to sputter, as politely as possible, about "well .... it seemed much simpler to an outsider".
1
TrumpMath:
1 + 1 = whatever I say it is.
No truth, no reality, no honesty.
Just make sure Trump pays less taxes
and so does his estate when he's gone
and all the club members at Mar-a-lago.
My billionaire buddies need a tax break.
They need a reward for voting for me.
I always reward loyalty. I don't vet hires real well though.
The "middle class" who will benefit are
"middle class" to me---those worth at least $10 million
who make low to middle six figures.
Everybody else is "poor" and beyond hope.
5
How does “doubling” the standard deduction cost any money at all? This “doubling” is merely a lumping of the personal exemptions in with the current standard deduction and lowering the sum of the two for a family of four or greater.
This will be another deterrent against itemized deductions since, if you go that route, all you will get to deduct is mortgage interest and charitable contributions. Your mortgage would need to be pretty high to make it better to itemize.
1
The GOP obviously has learned nothing from the debacle of their "Repeal and Replace". They still think they can push a major bill through by writing it unilaterally by a few of their own to the exclusion of many if not most of their own and without regard to how the people, not to mention the opposition, feel. Does this mean the authoritarian streak of Trumpism has now infected even the Congress? Sad!
2
Math and reality. The two biggest challenges to Republican policies, although both require an educated electorate.
7
Since they don't value the public education system...or education overall, it's no surprise they are having a mathematical issues. American citizens can take a page out of Republican's Fountainhead politics and just let that tax bill die-- it's not strong enough to survive.
6
What about stripping Salaries and (Outrageous) Benefits from Former Members Of Congress?
That may as well be considered....
4
And secret service for former presidents and their families! When they leave the White House, they have and obtain enough money to pay for their own security, or suck it up and walk on the wild side like the rest of us.
2
How about from all members of congress?
1
When I read that GOP deficit groupies were crafting their fiscal depth charge “In consultation with President Trump and our leadership team ..." plus every business lobby and right wing pressure group in town, it was clear this couldn't possibly be serious.
3
Republicans and money. Will Republicans ever put big business interests second to the interests of ordinary people? No sign yet. The real tell in this giant giveaway to the wealthy and powerful is not just that 90% of the benefits go to the top 10%, its that the those benefits will wind up being borrowed on top of the huge annual deficits which we are ALEADY running because we refuse to tax ourselves to pay for our gigantic military machine. Congress just raised the dod budget by another $50 billion in the current fiscal year (Oct. 1, 2017 - Sept 30, 2018) bringing the authorization for the military to $700 billion, or $37 billion MORE than Trump proposed! Obviously, Republicans only wring their hands over deficit spending during Democratic Administrations, and only sweat "out-of-control" spending when it helps poor people afford medical care (ACA), decent housing (HUD), and an adequate diet (Food Stamps). Ah, the reliability of Republicans. One of the few things in life a person can count on.
5
Unfortunately or maybe fortunately, the GOP spouts their big ideas to get elected, but once elected they have no viable plan even when they had years to think about it.
6
The GOP tax bill mess proceeds from a completely erroneous claim -- that American corporations pay the highest tax rate in the world. They don't. Not anywhere near it.
It is a fact that Trump babbles on about every chance he gets. And you will never get Paul (Feckless) Ryan to concede the point.
So, just so everyone understands what is happening, the Republican Congress is dead set to enact some kind of ginormous tax cut bill, without a single Democratic Party vote, whose benefits will flow mostly to corporations and wealthy individuals, at a cost of increasing the deficit by $1.5 TRILLION dollars. And all of this is based upon a lie.
We no longer have a government. We have a special interest bonanza. The only ones left out of this winner-take-all frenzy is the rest of us.
8
Please avoid calling this a "tax cut bill", language is important. The federal government is running a deficit, anything they do that doesn't cut down the deficit requires borrowing to make up the shortfall. The borrowed money has to be payed back mostly by wage earners, not the very wealthy.
What's under discussion now is a giant raid on the Treasury, where the very wealthy pocket a very large amount of borrowed money, basically from China, using future wage earners income as collateral for the loan.
It's not a tax cut, it's a very large loan that your children are on the hook for.
2
I find it fascinating that 1 + 1 = 3 when millionaires get the benefits.
The GOP proposal is graft, plain and simple. That's why they want to push it through with little debate.
5
Remember folks, Leona Helmsley was right ... "only the little people pay taxes". GOP pushing for breaks that will exclusively flow to the 1% with the rest of the "little people" picking up the slack. And while they're at it, they cut the budget to fund enforcement at the IRS. The 99% are overwhelmingly w2 employees who automatically have income reported to the federal government. Explains why 1% scofflaws like Paul Manafort can take up space in the USA while hiding income overseas, evading taxes. We also haven't seen DJT's tax returns. Boooo.
5
"Math" problem? No, it's policy problems that bedevil the GOP. As long as they continue the false claim that people can pay less in tax but receive more in government benefits (I'm looking at you, 1%ers), their budget projections will never add up.
3
I will never understand how so many people continue to believe continuous liars. Numbers don't lie, this will not benefit most of us. The six hundred dollars a year average savings will be cancelled out by the loss of deductions for state and local taxes and home mortgage interest. The middle class will be the ones paying for the billionaire campaign donors to get richer and more powerful. We need campaign finance reform to take back democracy.
7
Look at the photo. It's nice to see they've assembled a representative mix of men, women and people of various ethnicities to work out this plan.
Eliminating the estate tax is a ridiculous idea, yet not something they have considered taking off the table. First off, it impacts a very small percentage of people (but most of the current administration, no doubt). Secondly, it makes it much more difficult for the supporters of this tax bill to argue that the changes are intended to benefit the lower and middle classes. Of course, if anyone buys that to begin with - I've got some swampland I'm trying to get rid of.
2
Agreed, but the estate tax, however, should be raised to two million dollars. My siblings and I inherited our parent's run down house and enough cash to pay for my surviving parent's funeral. Although the house/estate was a few hundred below one million dollars, having to split it with many heirs left just enough for us to keep our heads above water if we are lucky enough not to live as long as our parents did. If the "estate" had gone over one million by a penny, we would have remained below the water line. Don't get me wrong, it did help, but we all still worry about whether there will be social security when we retire. Conclusion - one million dollars does not go very far in our economy.
Here, let me help them out.
No deficit.
The GOP campaigned on it for the last eight years.
Time to deliver WITHOUT destroying medical care. Having many different "choices" as to how to go broke paying medical bills is NOT The same thing as quality medical care.
We do not need the US to borrow money in order to reduce billionaires' taxes. We need Congress to stop the unscrupulous practices anticonsumer practices of the medical insurance industry.
Is congress going to take action or is it too concerned with what the nasty man kleptocratic president and his henchmen Bannon of Breitbart will do to them?
The math is pretty simple. To cut one person's taxes you have to raise someone else's either now or in the future. The only way to reduce taxes is to reduce spending. And then you you have to decide how the benefits of those cuts will be divided. To give one person a larger share, someone else's share has to be cut. Its a zero sum game.
12
And if you want to give somebody a biiiiiiiiiiiiggg tax cut, you have to increase a lot of little earners' taxes.
18
Ross, sorry, according tot he GOP and #45 you are inherently wrong.
If we lower taxes tremendously (bigly?) on Corporations, then the economy will skyrocket to 7-8% GDP and then the tax receipts will double or triple...
And then there is that notation 'AMOH'* on their chart a few years out.....
(That's okay. Me? I'm with you)
* - A Miracle Occurs Here
2
There is another way to cut taxes which the GOP has been doing for 50 years. It is called borrowing money. Most of the GWB tax cuts ended up as new debt. I think the gun argument needs to be turned around. Dear GOP, It's too soon to talk about tax reform. When you can eliminate the national debt we would be delighted to have a chat. - America
2
Math is too creditable.
They have an arithmetic problem, and a much bigger problem:
How to cover up their lies.
32
How funny it is (i.e., the throw-up kind) that these Republicans are so mathematically challenged -- they who are allies of big banks and mega corporations, authors of minimal business regulation, and blowhards for every opportunity at a pay raise.
Advice to the GOPers: Hire a Democratic accountant. We'll all be better off.
8
The thing I find odd is that Wall St. helps them, even though Wall St. averages something like 1% profits under GOP Presidents and 10% under Democrats. Same things with wages, employment, debt, etc. Forbes..."It is simply a fact that since World War II, Democratic presidents have seen 24.4 million more jobs created on their watch—an average of 78.6% more jobs created per year of Democratic administrations—than have Republican presidents. Ditto real GDP growth, 44% higher under Democratic presidents. On the flip side, unemployment has been 18% higher under GOP presidents."-hmmmm
3
Wall street represents a pretty wide swath of society through holdings in pension funds, mutual funds, etc. The repubs aren't even working for wall street. They're working for a very small group of incomprehensibly wealthy people who really couldn't care less how the overall economy does, they care only to line their own pockets, and to reduce the ability of the government to either regulate their activities, or trace the money that they hide overseas.
In no representative government would you ever see a proposal to eliminate estate taxes, or to reduce funding for the IRS, while the government runs a deficit. You've got both these features in the current bill.
1
Why are they letting math get in their way? They don't let climate change, economics, history, ethics, collusion, Russian cyber attacks, or common decency get in their way. Just make up some numbers, tell the base it makes sense, accuse critics of speading fake news, and let the windfall of campaign contributions from the billionaire class come pouring in. Jeez, don't they read their own playbook.
102
...and use that money to out fund your political opponent in the next election.
Nice comment, so true.
Success occurs when opportunity meets preparation. Through perversion of our civic processes, Republicans have created an opportunity. But they are such clueless clowns they never did their homework, they never seemed to grasp that they had a responsibility to the rest of us to deal with reality and not their bankrupt, useless right-wing ideology.
8
Not to mention they must all go to the same tailor, who is color blind. Of course the dark suits do go hand in hand with their dark ideology.
Hmm, smells a lot like the GOP's perfect, wonderful, outstanding attempts at a health care bill.
19
I don't get how republicans can do this without 60%??
2
So, GOP capitalism only works until you run out of other people's money...sorry, tax-funded incentives?
9
Let's derive the equation that Republicans are struggling with now:
+ ADD money to the rich with a tax cut
- SUBTRACT money from the middle class and poor to pay the rich
? FABRICATE how the middle class and poor will be so much better off
---
TOTAL = where their problem lies.
15
Amazing! There are still some people who believe in the “trickle down” economic theory despite all the evidence to the contrary. Rejoice 0.1%ers, you people are in power.
4
Oh trickle down does work. Give the wealthy more money and they will invest it in creating jobs. In China.
11
Ryan has been telling the world what a gifted policy wonk , particularly on taxes, he was for over a decade. And NOW he needs a couple more days to figure it out. He was, and is, a phony.
34
They plan to massively cut corporation taxes, estate taxes (paid only for multi-million dollar inheritances), and taxes on the richest, and they're trying to pretend their tax bill is not "for the rich"? How dumb do they think we are?
30
We have interstate highways that need fixing. We have bridges that have collapsed, or are near collapse. We have National Parks that need upgrading. We have airports that look like they belong to a third world country. Not to mention many, many other items that the Federal Government should help pay for. However, the Republicans, who have always shouted that they are for a balanced budget, are suddenly clamoring to pass a Tax Cut that looks like it will do even more damage to our national Debt.
President George H. W. Bush appears to have been the last Republican President to realize that a tax increase was needed. Of course look where that got him, one term. At least he was realistic. The Republicans need to suck it up and admit that some tax increases, especially on those individuals making over $250,000.00 are long overdue.
24
I propose we bring back the 95% tax rate on people earning more than 3 mil a year, and we only allow it to be rolled back when the national debt is gone.
5
Deja vu all over again. Just like with the Obamacare repeal and replace disaster, we’re getting a bill crafted in secret, rushed to a vote next week, that fundamentally effects nearly every person in the country. What could go wrong? I think I’ll buy some H&R Block stock (HRB).
5
Math, facts, and reality has bedeviled the GOP for the last 40 years. But why should the inconvenient truth of facts get in the way of a nice big fat tax cut for your buddies? Who elected these idiots?
8
To borrow from Lewis Carol ("Through the Looking Glass"):
“When I use a number,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make numbers mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”
6
I feel a trickle coming down, and it is on my head.
9
Is it gold? or golden? I hear the President likes golden showers.
1
1.
Get rid of all the unethical loopholes for the rich, especially CAP GAINS and HEDGE FUND abuses , which by the way are the antithesis to TRICKLE DOWN.
Leave the middle alone.
Give the breaks to lower income families.
2.
Repatriate foreign held US monies with caveats that it be reinvested in the US in exchange for lower corporate rates.
3.
Don't blow a new hole in the deficit and use the promise of any new revenues from expanding GDP to pay down debt.
All deficit neutral. Who knew it was this hard?
8
So today no one is talking about Social Security, but that is where the GOP will focus after they get their Billionaires Break tax reform. Yet they are willing to rob the working class of their 401K now... in the same tax conversation, which is what most of us believe will be our only retirement money when the GOP guts SS. That's why no one is talking about SS... it's the next Trump axe to fall.
6
The Repubs want to push this nightmare through before Mr. T & Company are hung out to dry. The closer Mr. Mueller comes to the WH the more desperation runs through Congress. If they can get the tax code overhaul they want while on the clock, then they will gladly throw Mr. Trump under the bus.
3
Sounds like Ryan's office is descriping the republican party in their Halloween themed statement.
Republicans never stop lying. They may believe their own lies but when it comes to math-you can't lie. This will be like the attempt to destroy Obamacare and it will fail because the numbers don't add up.
2
Of course the arithmetic doesn't work. So now is the time for special counting rules: if you really, really want an answer that the math won't support then it's only fair to change the math to get the answer you really, really want. Why not super-dynamic scoring or counting the same revenue twice (sorry, the trick of counting the same revenue twice was already used in the budget so it can't be used again for 12 months)? And try to rush fast enough that the CBO can't do a careful analysis of how much you are relying on faith-based ideology to cook the numbers. In any case, if this is the rumored price for removing President Trump once he signs the bill, perhaps we should keep an open mind and await developments.
1
As Bill Clinton so elegantly described it, the Republicans have always had a problem with "arithmetic." The truth is we don't need anymore tax cuts for the wealthy and the "voodoo" of "trickle down" to the middle class. What we really need the $1 trillion dollar infrastructure program--not the $1.5 trillion dollar deficit--that would directly benefit workers with good-paying jobs while also benefiting the wealthy corporate class through lower costs on an improved, efficient 21st century transportation system. The idea was to "Make America Great Again" and not Make the Rich Even Richer Again. We've been there before with the George W. Bush tax cuts and all we got was a huge Wall Street and Big Banks bail out and The Great recession where millions of the middle class and below lost their homes and their jobs.
6
First, lets define the middle class.
What is the composition, the parameters, just who makes up the middle class.
Is it 50k to 200k or 200k to 500k?
The middle class is the true engine of the economy, who are we/ they?
The middle class churns dollars, the 1% just pours more money into the stock market, bank accounts, offshore accounts, or Trump condos.
3
Tax all capital gains as ordinary income and eliminate mortgage deductions and child deductions. This ain't the 18th century where more hands to do farming and agricultural labor was a blessing. Oh, and let's see some cuts to our military budget, which is best equipped to repel an invasion force on our land but all too often IS the invasion force on other people's land.
3
The tax code is full of deductions. Some make more sense than others. But all represent a manipulation of government on behalf of interest groups and those interest groups can be expected to dig in and fight for them. In some ways, this should have been one of the areas where someone like Donald Trump could have provided true leadership. An outsider who is not indebted to any interest groups. Sadly, Trump is a disaster in so many ways and has not authority with which to lead on this issue. Note that Congress (ALL OF THEM) are equally incapable of solving this as they are beholden to the special interests.
137
Trump has a yuge interest group: Russian oligarchs, and he needs to keep them quiet. He also owes the Kochtopus and Mercers who have provided him with knowledgeable kleptocrats and toxic waste promoters to bolster up his id.
4
We've already covered Trump's freight -- when he got to write off $1Billion in taxes. The Grifter-in-Chief cannot be allowed a tax plan that furthers the damage.
The idea that Donald Trump is "an outsider not beholden to special interests" was perhaps the most insidious lie of the 2016 campaign. Donald Trump IS a special interest.
Look at the favored ideas in tax "reform" and tell me which special interest does better than Donald Trump.
Repeal estate tax? Only saves him 40 percent of his taxable estate, so, potentially a number in excess of a billion dollars depending how made up his net worth is.
Limit pass through income tax rate to 25 percent? Chances are all of his properties are owned through LLCs, with the exception of his personal residences.
lower the top income tax bracket to 35 percent? saves him over a tenth of his income taxes, assuming he pays those (and isn't still claiming twenty year old losses from his time as an incompetent business destroyer.)
The special interest in chief does quite well under republican tax "reform."
I understood lower the corporate rate would be coupled with eliminating corporate deductions in a significant way. Is this still on the table?
1
Not sure how tax rates affect wealth distribution, but look at how the share of overall wealth for the top 10% has increased since 1998.
In 1998 the top 10% owned 68% of total net worth of the country.
In 2016 the top 10% owned 76% of total net worth of the country.
An 8% gain in 18 years! And if this trend continues unabated in fifty-four years, less than a lifetime, the top 10% will own 100% of everything.
This is obviously oversimplified back of the napkin math, but it is just as logical a projection as any we've seen so far coming from the Republican tax committee. Maybe the reasoning behind their never ending quest to kill the death tax is to speed this up. Cause fifty-four years is such a long time.
1
Is the treatment of the state and local tax deduction (SLTD) too complicated to be discussed intelligently? And for our politicians to understand? The alternative minimum tax kicks in at $54,300 for individuals and $84,500 for couples. It makes great political rhetoric to add up the amount of the deduction that would be lost, ignoring the fact that for a very large segment of middle class tax payers the deduction is largely illusory because of the AMT. Many lower income tax payers who claim the STLD might be better off under the Republican proposal to double the standard deduction. Lower overall rates with an increased standard deduction will probably benefit a big majority of middle class tax payers, even those from high tax states like NY.
Our tax system is too complicated. Many of us get lost in the fog of offsetting provisions so that there is little transparency as to what the tax code really does. Elimination of most (or all) deductions with lower rates is a much sounder approach in the long run. (Elimination of the AMT without elimination of the SLTD is probably impossible. There would be too much revenue lost if the big offset of the AMT to the SLTD were lost. And taxpayers from high tax states are disproportionally impacted by the AMT.)
Better to make sound long term changes and find ways to phase in relief over a few years for the minority who are adversely affected!
3
Even without the details I can safely say that whatever happens, my taxes will never go down, never, ever. After 50 years as a working person they have never once decreased - they go one way only - and that way is UP. I'm not rich enough to benefit and thankfully not poor enough to need much of the social safety net. But I will be paying those taxes, so that the already well to do can do even better.
2
Great. Keep the same tax bracket for many retirees who get a decent pension and wipe out the deduction for state taxes. That looks like a tax increase to me. Meanwhile corporations get a great deal.
3
A huge loophole for an extremely wealthy group, which no one has talked about closing, is the" carried interest" for Hedge fund managers. Instead of being taxed like all other wage earners, their salaries are deemed carried interest, a pure fiction and their huge salaries, no matter how high are taxed at a capitol gains rate of 15%. The NY Times published a study of the extra amount of money that would be contributed to the treasury and reduce the deficit, if Hedge fund managers were taxed like everyone else. That extra amount of money was astronomical !
8
That's why repeal of AMT is so wickedly dangerous when combined with the passthrough loophole. My recommendation is that the passthrough apply only to those below the 1% level (AGI <$500K joint) and only for $250K of passthrough, so it's truly a small business incentive with all the requisite restrictions to curb tax arbitrage by solo professionals. then the Hedgies should be subject to the same passthrough tax treatment which would beither the AMT or the higher 35% rate. But I didn't win the election, so it's doubtful this concept would be heard. Dems can try, but unless the moderate GOPs in the Senate stand ground, it may be a done deal.
3
Real tax reform won't happen until and unless we can start from scratch, and stop using tax policy for social engineering. Why do we give deductions for having more children? For paying interest on a mortgage? For giving to charity? Why are some types of income taxed more or less than others? Why can you deduct medical bills over a certain threshold? The cost of a home office? Why do corporations get R&D tax credits, or individuals child care tax credits? And on it goes.
The purpose of taxes is to fund government operations. Start with "How much do we need to raise?" Then come up with a simple plan to raise that much money. The only problem is that the losers under any new plan have more than enough incentive to spend millions lobbying against changes, while the winners generally don't have enough certainty to lobby for them. So, the same broken, overly complicated system will get more broken and more complicated. And deficits will rise.
1
By 2028, you'll have your way, as the surging entitlement costs will by then require elimination of deductions simply to pay for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the military. Tax expenditures and social programs will phase out sheerly as a matter of fiscal necessity. Just read any of the GAO reports and forecasts. And tax rates will inevitably have to increase as well unless we're willing to tolerate 1970s style inflation as the unvoted tax increase.
1
I think they should cut all social services, all science funding, and all military funding. The deficit will disappear and the wealthiest will see their wealth skyrocket in value.
That is, right before the resulting chaos and anarchy causes a revolution or coup.
2
Grover Norquist if you’re listening..
Make the states responsible for the tax rates on individuals- set a goal of 18% of income and each state can decide if they want to soak the rich or tax the poor.
1
There is no point in cutting tax to the corporations. Whether you cut the tax or not, all the jobs will be shipped out of the USA based on manufacturing costs, available talent, profits that they earn and market demand. Now-a-days all corporations are global entities. I don't know why republicans never use the common sense.
2
"Mr. Trump invited nearly two dozen leaders of major business groups... to discuss the bill."
Until the government starts working for the people, instead of working for major business groups, we'll continue down this path of greater disparity of wealth and ever-increasing national debt, both of which are an existential threat to U.S. power, freedom and security.
6
Some budget math tricks we might anticipate before it's :
1. Cap property tax deductions and reduce cap incrementally after five years; eliminate all other SALT dedux.
2. Limit 401K contributions to Roth format only for taxpayers in upper (25% +) brackets.
3. Limit the preferential passthrough tax rate to joint filers <$500K of AGI and allow no more than $250k at the reduced rate. The higher (>25%) ordinary income rates to then apply for higher-income private equity.
4. Double the estate tax exemption and delay repeal until Dec. 2021.
5. Repeal AMT only for joint returns with AGI below $500K (top 1% of households)
6. Require a combination of either matching or profit-sharing contributions to Roth 401Ks, and/or apprenticeship training for new hires, of 4 pct,of company-wide payroll for businesses to qualify for lower tax rates and capital repatriation. Otherwise C-corps should pay taxes at a 25% rate not 20%. (I.e., do something actually meaningful for job creation and retirement security for the working/middle class.)
7. Automatically escalate the corporate and the passthrough tax rates after 5 years if budget deficits are not reduced by economic growth as promised.
1
Republicans can just repeal math, same as physics and evolution. Just ban anyone who can add from involvement in budgeting, like EPA is already banning scientists from assessing global warming.
Of course, as the cliche goes, reality will come back to bite. Eventually. But, with sufficient data-driven marketing analytics, the blame can always be passed elsewhere.
331
But math is sooooo hard!
Ending the estate tax in the United States will turn us into country with nobility -- that is people with inherited positions which require no work at all and which continue indefinitely. Good bye, democracy.
Keeping the estate tax is vital to continuing our country. The estate tax we have already allows billions to be passed on to survivors legally.
120
Sadly, they've already repealed the estate tax on the first $5.45 million. They want more more more. Greed and power. It goes with their looting and exploiting and poisoning the planet. Nothing is to big to ruin.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
13
I can live with some exemptions at current levels, or even a tad higher, which will not themselves create an aristocracy. But repeal is quite another thing. At some point the Dems will return to power and probably eliminate the step-up on capital gains; whether the Senate will live with complete repeal is open to speculation. Watch Senator Collins for a clue.
Having come from a family farm, I can attest that these politics have nothing to do with 98% of American farm families. Most folks don't know that there are special provisions in the code to value the land a ag value, discount its value even further if held (as is best anyway) in family LLCs, and pay any inheritance taxes over many years at low interest rates. This myth that farms are sold to pay taxes is a smokescreen for old money on Wall Street.
6
Tax all dividends and capital gains as ordinary income raising 160 B /year or
1.6 T /ten years.
Tax unrealized capital gains at death [eliminate step up in basis] raising
40 B /year or 400 B /ten years.
78
How about adding this---
Raise the limit on wages subject to FICA tax to $250,000.
4
@david - So when the house your parents paid $40,000 for and has undergone an unrealized capital gain of $160,000 after being assessed at $200,000 in probatel the estate or their heirs will have to pay an immediate tax on $140,000?
1
Taxes on dividends and capital gains should be taxed at ordinary income rates but I would phase in the change over 5+ years to avoid a mad rush to divest.
1
Actually, the math is pretty simple. Since their only objective here is massive tax cuts for large corporations and wealthy individuals, they have to accept some combination of increased deficits, tax increases on the rest of us, and/or cuts in government benefits and services. None of these are at all popular with anyone outside of a few billionaires who are the GOP's funders. The "problem" is in finding a way to convince the public to support a plan that will harm 99% of us.
545
@Robert Schneider Chicago
Perfectly put Robert. That is the problem. Paradoxically all the screaming by Republicans about the deficit has made the entire country aware of what it is and when they attempt to add trillions to it in order to finance huge tax cuts for multi millionaires it is not going to play in Peoria.
130
Let us hope this boondoggle for billionaires doesn't play in Peoria!
18
And with so much additional money to raise in the bond market, interest rates will rise adding the tax of inflation to all
5
If you really want to grow the economy, grow consumer spending. Put more money in the pockets of the working and middle classes, and that money will be spent.
You would think corporations would want a booming consumer market, rather than a tax cut on earnings from a sluggish one.
Want another "tax cut?" Get our medical spending in line with the rest of the developed world, and presto -- billions of dollars of compensation can move from health insurance premiums to disposable income.
291
You are right. It's the middle class that keeps money in circulation. By taxing families making $20,000-$60,000 means fewer sales of washing machines, cars and, OK, socks and underware -- all produced by big corporations. As these people grow older they'll need INCREASES in Medicare and Medicaid. We sure could use a cost of living uptick in these programs right now, not a robbery.
3
@ Andy
70% of US GDP is consumer spending.
Just as you suggested, putting more money in the pockets of more people will increase demand and that will generate economic growth that benefits everyone.
Cutting taxes on billionaires doesn't increase consumer demand, doesn't generate economic growth, but as the GOP leaders have shown, it sure leads to a pile of money they can give their big donors who can afford to buy a seat at the table.
Wish Congress could also think intelligently.
Here's my solution to the math problem: Ditch the carried interest loophole so beloved of private equity billionaires and leave absolutely everything else in our tax code alone for 2 years. (Don't fret for the hedge fund managers and private equity moguls. They're sure to find some other loophole to exploit.) Then see how much money is generated by that move and use the money to expand the earned income credit for the poorest among us.
182
I was curious about the carried interest loophole. In the interest of fairness, it should be ditched. But to provide revenue, it's small potatoes: $2-20B/yr mostly to real estate & private equity fund managers. If you want big bucks AND fairness, go after the preference rate for capital gains and dividends ($120B/yr 76% of it goes to top .1%), and the step-up in value upon death provision (heirs pay $0 capital gains, $50B/yr). I got this info from http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-carried-interest-2...
Another place to look for revenues that would also constrain automated Wall Street: financial transaction tax, est. $110-403B/yr.
Has it ever occurred to the GOP that many (but not all) of the regulations they are trying to gut were enacted because of people like them, to protect the rest of us?
159
OMG. What a great joke! You cannot possibly be serious.
Yes, and that's exactly why they want to get rid of them. Those pesky regulations, protecting the ordinary everyday people should NEVER get in the way of their profits!
3
"Has it ever occurred to the GOP that many (but not all) of the regulations they are trying to gut were enacted because of people like them, to protect the rest of us?"
They don't care.
Robert Schneider from Chicago summed it up pretty well.
"Actually, the math is pretty simple. Since their only objective here is massive tax cuts for large corporations and wealthy individuals,..."
The peasantry, i.e., the rest of us, should just go about its business and leave the plutocrats to enrich themselves further as they harvest their return on investment in the Congress, which, after all, represents THEM, and not US.
They do have to fool enough of the people enough of the time however to keep their jobs so that the aristocracy can continue to invest in them.
"Even if the delay does not throw the Republican schedule off course, it signals potential difficulties ahead for a bill that Republicans are attempting to pass on a party-line basis"
In other words, these republicans are still calling on their "Hastert Rule" to keep Democrats out of the Legislative Process. And this republican rule ignores, on purpose, the desires and needs of vast numbers of Americans who deserve a say-so in all Legislation at affects them, their families and their financial lives. But republicans don't care about them because they only serve big business and the wealthy contributors to their election campaigns.
71
Yea...let's keep a GOP "rule" named after a child molester. Way to go republicans. God forbid you try 'regular order' to pass laws.
12
Big Q re repeal Estate Tax which only applies to estates over $5500 or $10,000 for married couple. Under current law every estate gets new tax basis on inherited property without capital gains tax that the deceased would have paid on sale EVEN if estate doesn’t pay estate tax. If repeal doesn’t retain stepped up basis everyone inheriting property will pay capital gain tax on sale of asset.
You inherit Mom’s highly appreciated house, no estate tax current law, no capital gains on sale. If repeal doesn’t keep stepped up basis, you pay Capital Gsins tax on sale. Thanks Republicans. Rich get richer, middle class pays.
8
"Big Q re repeal Estate Tax which only applies to estates over $5500 or $10,000 for married couple."
I think your figures are a bit off here. Estate taxes apply only to the excess over $5.49 million per person or $10.98 million per married couple in 2017. This is the whole point - repealing the estate tax does nothing for the vast number of citizens.
3
Yes, you are right! I meant millions not thousands and you correctly ID the point I was ineptly making.
Thank you!
1
"Mr. Trump invited nearly two dozen leaders of major business groups — including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the American Petroleum Institute and the American Farm Bureau Federation — to the White House on Tuesday morning to discuss the bill. In the afternoon, Mr. Ryan met with Mr. Trump and then with more than a dozen conservative groups on the tax bill, including the Heritage Foundation and Americans for Prosperity."
And who is meeting with the average taxpayer who is going to foot the bill for this $1.5 trillion boondoggle? Nobody, that's who - because Congress, which is supposed to represent our interests, is in the pockets of these "business leaders". It is, plain and simple, a massive redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. Avaricious thieves, the whole lot of them.
420
And yet I do not see the words "campaign finance reform" anywhere in your comment. Only Bernie kept up the call. We all better start preaching campaign finance reform or we are lost. We need a million person march with a SINGLE focus, if we wish to save the Middle Class.
Sad. The American people have something more valuable than money, it's the vote; what they lack are common sense, a healthy cynicism, and an education.
"Mr. Trump pushed back on Democratic criticism in his meeting with business leaders.
“The Democrats will say our tax bill is for the rich, but they know it’s not,” he said. He added, “The Democrats want to raise taxes and really create obstruction, and the Republicans want to lower taxes, and we want to get rid of regulations.”
Don't kid yourself for even one moment. This republican tax cut bill is absolutely for the benefit of the rich. Look no further than their trying to get rid of the Estate Tax which only applies to individuals with Estates over $5 Million dollars.
Another example is the republican push to eliminate the Itemized Deductions and Personal Exemptions and substitute a doubled Standard Deduction which will not cover the Itemized Deductions amounts most people now have.
The republicans always complain: "and we want to get rid of regulations.”"
But what they don't say is that Regulations exist because the congress does not include instructions on how the laws they write are to be implemented. That job of writing Instructions is left by congress to the federal agencies who will implement the law. Congress does have complete over cite of all Regulations the federal agencies propose and write. Republican complaints about regulations is a smoke screen tossed out to try and confuse Americans.
If the republicans pass this terrible bill it will mean increased Income Taxes on the working poor and middle class.
65
The GOP can’t save face by simply cutting corporate tax to 25%, eliminating carried interest (hedge fund scam), cap mortgage deduction for homes over $5m, and recognize that tax cuts have never paid their own way by growth. They certainly do not increase wages or reduce redistribution of wealth to the top 0.05%.
Deficit hawks & debt scolds cannot keep up the Starve the Beast strategy when infrastructure, disaster & entitlements require revenue for true homeland security.
52
Don't tell me. `Master tactician' Mitch McConnell and `noted policy wonk' Paul Ryan are about to fail again. Let's end this mythical treatment of two of the most overrated congressional leaders in history. Hopeless.
238
They must be trying to make it "work" with Common Core Math! Not One More Penny should go to tax cuts for the wealthy or Corporations! The RNC is pushing a bill that will be a disaster for this country!!! Kill the Bill!!!
69
Pesky facts and their liberal bias.
94
The very definition of the word "fact" precludes bias. You can't have a "fact" with any kind of bias - liberal or conservative. Maybe more of our tax dollars should be going into quality education.
1
Republicans don't have a math problem. They have an honesty problem. Unlike politicians, numbers don't lie.
574
"Unlike politicians, numbers don't lie."
That's right -- today, USA taxpayer debt is $20,000,000,000,000, and in 2008 it was $10,000,000,000,000. Who was president, from 2008 to 2016?
1
All those pesky wars the republicans started had to be paid for, unlike this tax scam.
5
And this Republican tax cut will add to the deficit, so what's your point? Did you moan and complain when the Bush administration started 2 wars off budget and on credit while pushing through huge tax cuts skewed to the rich? At least the Obama administration brought the missing war spending into the budget where it belonged.
6
Most view the GOP math problem with taxes through the wrong lens. They assume from the deliberately fuzzy GOP rhetoric that tax reform has something to do with the economy, growing jobs or middle class financial security.
The real math is actually much simpler, how many trillions in tax cuts for the GOP donor class is necessary to maintain GOP power and enact self-perpetuating legislation.
The best evidence of the empty nature of GOP rhetoric is Trump out campaigning for the benefits of a tax plan that doesn't exist, while condemning and promoting major elements of the plan on alternating days.
We should be familiar with the routine by now, because we have already watched the similarly secretive effort to "repeal and replace with cheaper and better health plans". It was obvious from the beginning that the health care math was really about budget cuts to make room for tax cuts.
But now the vindictive monster in the White House has managed to make Obamacare more expensive, both for those who don't qualify for subsidies and for the Federal government in creating "premium free" insurance, adding $185 billion more to the deficit.
Brings to mind the infinite monkey theorem about a room full of monkeys with typewriters recreating Hamlet.
88
Perhaps, just perhaps, there are enough Republicans who smell the blood that Mr. Mueller is spilling, and will spill, in the Russia investigation and perhaps they are going to decide that the measly money their Robber Baron bosses paid them to sit in OUR United States Congress/Senate simply isn't enough to destroy The United States of America they swore to protect.
Perhaps they will finally decide that giving more to the Robber Barons doesn't guarantee anything but more demands because the Robber Barons are insatiably greedy, socially unconscious human beings who have become deranged with their greed.
We will find out right now where they stand. Tax cuts for the wealthiest is NOT acceptable. Pass it and face the wrath of WE THE PEOPLE, boys and girls. It will not be pretty.
110
It may be true some smell blood from Mueller, but they ought to be considering that they are up for re-election. When the truth about this tax cut for the wealthy & tax increase for most travesty comes out and people realize how much worse off they are do Republicans really think they can fool enough people all of the time? Democrats and old-line Republicans worried about balanced budgets & prudent spending will eventually get together and crucify the new GOP.
2
They've been lining their pockets with cash from the plutocrats for decades, while working against the interests of the common American. Why would they stop now, with a really big payoff within reach? By the time "we the people" react, they'll be wacking a golf ball around a course in some foreign country, their ill gotten gains safely hidden in a bank account in Panama or Cypress.
5
What is truly sad is that $1.5 trillion has now become the baseline for the party that spent the last eight years screaming about deficits and the national debt. As long as the tax cut does not result in a net loss of more than $1.5 trillion (and let's face it, reducing revenue results in reduced revenue; it does not by some fantasy increase revenue) it is to be seen as "acceptable." Unfortunately the media seem to be buying into this line as well. Repeat the outrageous often enough and it will become the new baseline.
39
Will there be a CBO score before party leaders pressure their lawmakers to vote? Any measure of who wins and who loses? Why do corporations get all the benefits right away? Why are we still talking about eliminating the estate tax, a tax that affects nobody who is not rich and is by definition a tax cut on the rich? Any discussion on why we are adding to the deficit at the exact moment we have the national resources to start paying it down?
45
Those of us who itemize and pay a mortgage will be well-suited to make the January 2018 house payment by 12/31/2017. It would appear that the mortgage interest deduction is on the chopping block.
13
Simple solution. Leave the corporate tax rate alone, leave the tax rate on high earners alone, leave the estate tax alone, and lower the tax rates on the middle class. Isn't that what Trump promised? Why do they have to do it in such a convoluted way? Because that's how the GOP hides the fact that there is no middle class tax cut.
283
Trump promised? Isn't he the Liar-in-Chief? He and his entire nepotistic family will benefit from this boondoggle, don't think he'll miss this chance.
5
I forgot to add one of Trump's promises to the above. Elimination of the carried interest loophole.
1
Math problems have never stopped trickle down before, and the math hasn't changed. Trickle down does not work unless you are part of the plutocracy.
239
I think trickled on is more descriptive than trickle down.
2
This has never worked to boost the economy for everyone. NEVER. But it does put more money into the pockets of the wealthiest, who just store their extra money in offshore accounts where they can do NO good in helping the economy. Beware of politicians bearing tax cuts. This will be paid for by the most vulnerable as they look to raid Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security to pay for them. Democrats, you had best get your house and order and knock the GOPers out of legislative majorities next year.
374
Undisputed fact: the 1% pay 39% of federal taxes, and the top 25% pay 87%.
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
Democrats raise taxes -- workers cut working hours, fewer taxes collected (Maryland, Conn.)
1
Bing Ding Ow, have you ever heard of Sam Brownback? "Kansas" ringing any bells?
3
And control 38% of the wealth. Your point?
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/27/the-top-1-percent-of-americans-now-contr...