Don't hold your breath for any meaningful reform.
All we will get is predators who are a bit more careful.
If you are a producer and have one part and ten beautiful actresses who want the part who do you think will get the part?
1
Why is Hugh Hefner, of Playboy infamy, left out of the list of many womanizers in this article?
Hugh Hefner was the classic case of "a degenerate, dirty old man" except that most of the media —enamored by his money and power—treated him as a "progressive," or a "sexual freedom" pioneer.
He paid young women $1,000 a week to "hang around" his penthouse brothel.
He boasted he had sex with a 1,000 women.
I guess that as "progressive" as it gets—a degenerate, corrupting young women.
Power and money compel immorality.
Just like those in politics.
Just like Bill Clinton with Monica.
Consenting naïve young women?
It's hard to fight against power, celebrity, and money.
Especially young women who don't want to be considered a party-pooper and have just had a number of drinks.
In a surrounding of "everybody's doing it."
Today you don't need much money because "flattery can get you everywhere."
How many STDs did he transfer to women before he ostracized them from his multi-million dollar penthouse brothel?
Hollywood praised him for his "good deeds."
And ignored how hundreds of women's morals he destroyed.
And ignored the young men he turned into stalking, voyeuristic, lechers.
Where was Hollywood actors and actors censure of that Playboy slime-ball who helped destroy American morals?
There was once a great spiritual thirsting in the USA for truth, humility and decency.
Who will protect the unmentioned sexually abused children as well from Hollywood?
NYT, 10/28/17: "…Bill Clinton, whose popularity endures despite a long string of allegations of sexual misconduct and, in one case, rape — all of which he has denied."
NYT, 5/18/16: "[The rape allegations] were publicly denied by BC’s personal lawyer, David Kendall, who called them 'absolutely false.'"
BC never denied the sexual abuse, and specifically, the rape. He would simply reference Kendall's non-denial denial & say he'd have nothing more to say.
Kendall cannot possibly know what happened—he wasn't there.
HC, too, never denied the rape (or her intimidation of Broaddrick 2 weeks later). BBC asked about "her dismissal of the women & was she sure about that?" HC replied—“That has all been litigated. That was subject of a huge investigation in the late '90s & there were conclusions drawn” Note the equivocation, the passive voice to hide her active role. The only "litigation"—Jones v. Clinton—was settled out of court when the Clintons paid Jones $850k.
"I hope that when this moment of noisy sisterhood dissipates, it doesn’t end w/ a woman in a courtroom, being made to look crazy, as these stories so often do"—Sarah Polley—NYT
This marginalizing tactic is especially pernicious when the victim is called crazy by another woman; devastating when the woman is the purported primo women's champion. HC spearheaded the "nuts & sluts" strategy to silence & intimidate her husband's victims. (See: "The War Room,"(Carville/Stephanopoulos), "Hell to Pay," "No One Left to Lie To")
2
The problem today is different. There is a widespread, boomer-generation tolerance—and worse, a sick admiration—of sexual abuse.
The root cause is the Faustian bargain feminists made with the Clintons in the 90s that rests on a false premise–that one's virtuousness is determined by one's policy positions rather than if one has a moral core. This compartmentalization spills toxicity into—corrupts—the culture. It produces disturbing dissonance, often w/ dangerous consequences. The Clintons cloak their reflexive abuse of women w/ VAWA, cloak their complicity in Rwanda genocide w/ a few policy crumbs. If policy positions–mere identification w/ good policies–make one virtuous, then those policies are iconographic–they just represent virtuousness, they don't necessarily do virtuous things. They strip meaning from society, systematically deconstructing it as a democracy.
The Clintons were the role models of the generation now in power. They gave corruption and abuse of women and power their imprimatur. Hillary Clinton rode to notoriety on the backs of her predatory husband and the women they abused and was anointed a feminist icon.
"What is important is HIllary savaging the women"—Carl Bernstein
The Faustian bargain made long ago betrayed not only women but all of us. The devil is now getting his due.
3
There is clear, obvious differences between RAPE -- and sexual harassment -- jokes and naughty but harmless behavior (patting someone's read end at a photo op, as Poppy Bush did) -- threats to someone's jobs -- coercion to have sex -- bad, clumsy "passes" that are rejected.
These articles conflate those things as if they were all of equal harm. They also assume ONLY men ever do these things, and ONLY to women. Powerful female bosses can harass male employees. Lesbian bosses can harass female employees. Gay male bosses can harass male employees.
By making this about "poor helpless women" vs. "leering mean male bosses"....you are creating a stereotype that helps nobody, but harms a lot of innocent people. Inadvertently, you are creating the impression that women are helpless creatures, who cannot negotiate the pitfalls of life without "gub'mint" ensuring their successes.
NOTE: Bill Clinton is not a sexual harasser because he had an affair with Monica Lewinsky. He is a CONVICTED sexual harasser because he harassed Paula Jones, lost his case in court and had to pay her $800,000 in damages, court costs and lost his law license for 5 years.
It is worth noting you DEFEND Clinton by saying "his affair was not illegal." No -- and flirting is not illegal. Asking a woman to sleep with you is not illegal. Even with the despicable, crude Mr. Weinstein -- 90% of the stories I have read here involve a beautiful young actress who he solicited for sex or massages, and who told him NO.
2
Yeah. Right after we cure obesity.
19
Men don't need reforming. A few men do.
BTW, a few women do, too...
37
This debate seems to be going the way of all others - "It's terrible, someone should do something", which means nothing will be done. If you want change, you have to actually change things.
A few points:
1. The words "harassment" and "assault" have far more legal status than the word "sexual". Both can be acted upon. Assault is criminal; harassment is civil. Both could have actionable business-based values at law, too. One bit of case law could change the game completely.
2. Behavior often defines the person. Again, more scrutiny would do a lot of good. A person who takes advantage of their power in one way is very likely to abuse it in others. In these cases, broader behavior isn't under any scrutiny at all, just some specific actions. Why not? My instinct says that they may have been groping accounts contracts, business deals, etc. too. I think you'd scare and shut down this truly appalling misogynist culture a lot more with a few investigative kicks to its raison d'etre than mere morality which it can ignore.
3. The "leadership culture" in which the boss is apparently untouchable until decades of egregious excesses bring out in to the open whatever everyone already knew about has to go. Lose that, and the only real cover these groping gargoyles have is gone. You might even lose the sacred How to Succeed in Business by Being an Absolute Jerk motif, too.
6
These actresses knew how Weinstein operated. The submitted to him to get jobs. That isn't right but the women that turned on him had aged-out of Hollywood films and had nothing to lose. He no longer could get them work. So what's the moral of the story here, people?
19
What is "sexual harassment anyway? By whose definition? Is it ANY kind of spontaneous physical contact between adults? What if a person puts their hands on your shoulders and you enjoy the warmth of it and let their hands stay there. Are you complicit in an unspeakable crime?
To label all unpermitted spontaneous physical contact "harassment" is just plain absurd. Please, women, defend yourself from real aggression but otherwise remember the power of your (once-celebrated) gentle charm: "Come in, she said, I'll give ya - shelter from the storm."
7
Speaking as a man, I can say that men like that don't change. At least not inside they don't. They see no reason to. They view themselves as the manliest of men. If anything, they believe all other men should behave as they do.
My hope is that women will now feel more free to point out men like that. IMO, such men would go around murdering people if not for the consequences. That being the case, we need to up the consequences for men mistreating women. While we're at it, let's do the same for child abusers. After that, we can work on animal abusers, too.
Perhaps it's a vicious cycle of bad men teaching their sons how to behave badly. That wouldn't surprise me, but to me it's irrelevant. For now, I'm not interested in the cause. Let's just focus on putting a stop to people hurting others.
11
What is the New York Times doing to prevent sexual innuendo and harassment. I remember you had an Editor who was a strong women, aggressive and highly intelligent. She was summarily dismissed. Women generally see that to get ahead in a competitive environment, it’s an advantage to be attractive to men and accept a certain amount of innuendo. Then, if it goes to far and you find that you’re not just wanted for your brains and hard work, a woman has to decide how much she wants to compromise herself. Being paid off for harassment with a silence clause is the worst insult of all. In any sane world, it’s the predator that should be exposed and banished from the workplace. It’s dangerous to get in an intimate situation with a powerful person or someone you report to, including going to bedrooms in homes or hotel rooms. Insist on offices, restaurants, conference rooms, hotel lobbies. This should part of HR policy, giving every employee the responsibility to say no. This approach doesn’t mean the victim is at fault it gives the person the obligation to say no, and if advances persist, to report it HR.
5
What is an "information operation?" How is evidence of wrong doing by individuals "weaponized" by intelligence services to attack strategic objectives like the US entertainment industry? Why is the US entertainment industry a target of asymmetric warfare? Why is destruction of legacy media organizations important? What tactics are used to cause individual and groups at orgaizations to act, voluntarily, against their own interests?
The answers are the province of reflexive control theory, please Google.
informing yourself and your family and colleagues is essential in limiting the effects of damage from information attacks.
We are composed of what we know, we are creatures of information, we rely on it to shape our every decision and we can't act speak or decide any better than the information available to us permits.
Our information supply is degraded so we are no longer able to reliably distinguish what is true and important from what is trivial and false. Information operations are only one aspect of non linear war but they have almost destroyed our democracy, and if we don't recognize this reality, and secure our networks there is no way to prevent the progressive reduction of our country to third world status.
Insecure networks can not support advanced computational civilization. hysterical crowds won't either. who will?
Ted Mann
producer
Hollywood CA
Weinstein is an extreme case. That there are many much less extreme, though still serious, examples does not make it less extreme or less outrageous.
Most men are not millionaires, do not privately "interview" young movie actresses in hotel rooms, and do not use their jobs to systematically harass, exploit, mistreat and abuse hundreds of women. This happened in the US motion picture industry, which knew of it and did next to nothing to stop it or reform itself, and no amount of excuse pandering and buckpassing can transform this horror into some kind of collective failing of all men.
15
Is that a rhetorical question? If not, the answer is no. If so, the answer is no.
2
These actresses made a mistake by being alone with Harvey Weinstein in his hotel room. When the assistant left, they should have walked out too. Some of them even had heard of rumors of his past behavior but ignored the warnings. Women must also take some responsibility and precautions to protect their safety and those of future actresses who may inadvertently put themselves in harms way.
Hopefully these episodes with men like Mr. Weinstein will be a warning to women that if something does not feel right, follow your instincts. It is better to be safe than sorry. So if you lose out on a movie contract, your safety is far more important than a starring part in some movie that may not do well at the box office. Movie careers come and go but you will always have your dignity. That and your safety.
7
I wonder how much forced arbitration clauses in employment contracts contributed to things getting this far out of hand and staying so this long. It would seem to be far easier to cover this kind of problem up if you cannot reveal it in open court.
2
Society must continue to evolve, even though the animal does not evolve at the same pace.
1
After watching Meet the Press today, I see NBC is no longer covering this story since Mark Halperin was named. Same with Morning Joe, unless you count a 30 second statement (hopefully that changes tomorrow) and the rest of the MSNBC lineup have remained silent. George Stephanopoulos did cover the topic #MeToo on his Sunday show and did show a pic of Mark. Didn't know this movement was started 10 years ago but it took Hollywood to bring it to life. Even late night comedians are only covering Weinstein. However, if the news media, and shows like SNL, puts this story on hold now that one of their own has been named, then the double standard is still in place and this story will slowly die. Working women and men, many of them single raising children, will remain victims since they need the job to support their families. They don't have the name recognition that can protect them. The onus is not only on high profile victims who have the power to shed light, but the media as well. They are the only ones who can effect change to help all victims.
8
It is interesting how this paper has no problem specifically calling out white men for all sorts of suppossed problematic behaviors but refuses to call out Jewish , Muslim, or black men when they display problematic behaviors. Maybe ask the question why do Jewish men like Weinstein have a problem molesting and raping non-Jewish women ? I as a white man have very little in common with Jews,Muslims and Africans. And I specifically warn white women against them. Since their cultural standards and attitudes are very different from mine it is unfair to throw us all in the same boat as just "men".
10
P.c. fanatics will be the downfall of Western civilization, and their effect on the arts , on academe, and sports is deleterious.Pete Rose was denied admission into Hall of Fame because he was caught gambling, Francis Scott Keys's national anthem is banned because he was a slave owner, statues of Confederate generals are demolished by those who neither understand causes of the Civil War, nor could pass a simple diction test.Mark Potok, of SPLC is appointed judge and executioner when it comes to deciding which groups are hateful, and which are not. He called Ayaan Hsiri ALI extremist and a radical for leading a crusade against fgm whom Potok's p/c. friends at CARE have successfully banned from speaking at college campuses. 1 thing I noticed about Anita Hill when her testimony ended against Clarence Thomas: She was smiling, as if she knew that, having had her moment in the limelight, she could now look forward to a good law practice, a lucrative speaking tour and a best selling book.Is this not political theatre? So much suffering in other 7/8ths of the world that we who live in the 1/8th that is doing very well assume our problems r of major importance. They r not!Advice to author of this silly op ed: Go out and help others, join the Peace Corps or an n.g.o in a "developing" nation,join folks of "buena voluntad" rescuing abandoned dogs on Isla de Los Sotos!No se ofenda, this is such obvious, nonsensical rubbish, a waste of good editorial space!
4
The title shows the Times has no difficulty grotesquely generalizing about gender when that gender is male. If this was clickbait, it succeeded. Fortunately, the editorial itself is more nuanced.
8
I note that your own editorial board has 19 members, only 5 of them women. Maybe you should look to yourselves as well.
17
Incidentally, the following link to The Guardian newspaper, best remembered for its Snowden exposure of the NSA, calls attention to how, at least one womans' public opinion of our Female Harasser In-Chief, is made known.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/29/hail-to-the-chief-cyclis...
3
What has made the New York Times jump on this bandwagon?
The "Harvey Weinstein's" both in and out of the "workplace" (what's a "workplace"?) have been there all along. Suddenly the New York Times is at the ramparts with this?
No. It's just to sell themselves, not to influence change. If it were to influence and expose these behaviors to cause change, then they'd have broached this topic long ago before there were so many victims. It's clear that Main Stream Media knew this story (and so many others they refuse to tell), prior to this curtain being drawn back.
When the next story comes along about victims of a different kind of "crime" in America, the New York Times will act like they just found out, but that's not the case.
Weinstein "whored" himself out. Our culture at this point in time seems to be about "whoring" itself out - it's not about integrity, decency, listening, righting wrongs that are under your nose.
It's about power and money and influence and the brutality of all that is baked into "that". The New York Times is about power and money and influence and that, and only that, is making them write this story, not because the Times has integrity, decency, listens and wishes to right wrongs that are under their nose.
6
The nation is covered in blood. Has one grotesque mass killing after another changed anything about guns? Don't get your hopes up about men who behave like pigs.
8
This is more than sexual predation. This is bullying for its own sake. Smaller and weaker boys are harrassed in grade school. In a supposedly Christian culture WWJD?
6
Jesus would pick them last in a game of sandlot baseball.
1
What reformation are you talking about? I've resisted the urge to greet strange women in a bathrobe and perform oral rape on them quite well up to this point. Let's get this straight, NYT: this isn't the cultural benchmark you want this to be and Harvey Weinstein's actions should never be lumped with my asking for a piece at the water cooler...they are not the same and never the two shall meet.
10
Perhaps it's time to stop honoring the perpetrators.
Bill Clinton, while governor of Arkansas, had state police bring a young secretary to his hotel room, where he exposed himself and requested sexual favors.
While President of the United States, Clinton had an extended affair with a 21 year old intern who was his employee. Make no mistake, this was not about consensual sex between adults, it was about the gross abuse of power.
Mr. Clinton has not been convicted of rape. But has has been credibly accused of it.
And even to this day, many idolize the man. His wife promised that if elected President herself, she would give Mr. Clinton a major role in her government.
And consider Woody Allen. Mr. Allen has not been convicted of a crime. But he took "erotic" nude photographs of the then 22 year old adopted daughter of Mr. Allen's common law wife. The young woman was likely abandoned as a child by her Korean family, and adopted by Mia Farrow (who later become Mr. Allen's common law wife) and Andre Previn, and moved to the United States. Mr. Allen is now married to the woman, who is 35 years younger than he is.
Mr. Allen's actions do not pass the smell test.
And yet, Mr. Allen is idolized by many, including this newspaper. He has been given unprecedented page space in the Times' Sunday Review, and recently wrote the lead article in the Times' Book Review.
13
Qualify the headline of this article. It is offensive to lump everyone of any group into a negative stereotype. Or so I thought until the recent torrent of tirades directed at "men".
10
How many more times do I have to say it???
NOTHING will change - until women fight back where it MATTERS
Keep a sharp object in your pocket, and when a man gets out of line use it. Where it MATTERS. Ladies, you’ll be fine in the court of public opinion.
This is an issue of male instigated violence and righteous self defense for intended victim.
Any and everything else is blah blah blah
Come on, this is the 21st century is it not?
2
People unfamiliar with violence can get into a lot of trouble the first time they try it out.
Take a martial arts class, which involves boring repetition of offensive and defensive moves until they are nearly subconscious. Most women are smaller and weaker than most men, if they want to win a fight they have to be that much better.
3
Bill Clinton? Thanks for the "balance."
5
I have every confidence that from now on, wealthy, chauvinistic, disgusting old men will stop hitting on attractive young women. Also, that tax cuts will finally bring prosperity to the middle class. America will be great again!!!
9
Joe Biden treated Anita Hill very badly.
https://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/biden-anita-hill-women-senate-cla...
7
Excuse me. It’s #notme . I have never harassed or abused a woman. Ever.
I know women who claimed abuse, harassment and assault. I take their claims as fact. However, most men and all the men I know are real men and not predators.
I don’t need to be reformed. So stop bashing all men.
And BTW Bill Clinton should have not been buried deep in the editorial but up there in the first paragraph.
11
To all the men protesting that they are not the problem, examine your privilege as men.
5
For those who keep saying "women are weaker than men," "women could get hurt if they fight back" - have you folks ever hiked in the woods? A good ranger will tell you that there are dangerous animals out there, whom we are not allowed to shoot, but they advise pepper spray and other deterring products. So - you lucky lady - you weigh an attractive 105 pounds. Afraid of getting hurt? Oh, rape hurts less than getting your nose broken? Really? Get bear spray.
5
Is this a serious inquiry?
F3
3
Silly headline. In answer: no. Nor any other segment of the human race.
4
It is basic human nature to thrill at learning you are attractive to another person, i.e. desirable to them. The worst thing is to learn that another person, especially an attractive one, finds you unattractive! The sexual "dance" is at the core of pleasurable social intercourse.
What ruins things is when people start using their sexuality as a bargaining chip. That turns relationships poisonous. However the day we outlaw innocent flirting is the day we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
4
There is opportunity for change today. What will determine the outcome is the successful prosecution of powerful offenders. Until sexual assault and harassment is held accountable assault is permitted.
Electing Obama was thought by many as a watershed. Instead it resulted in blatant racism in the guise of political dialog. Racists were able to evoke support for opposition to everything Obama, because racists hated the Black man in the White House. The Southern Strategy is a race based political initiative and discarded the dog whistle with the creation of the “Tea Party” and the racist Trump “birther” campaign. Then we were confronted with the murder of Trayvon Martin, with no outrage among Democrats, NO INDICTMENTS of the police. Conclusion: shooting unarmed Black men is acceptable.
Cosby may walk. O’Reilly is walking arrogantly with millions. Trump is President. Justice and accountability are on trial, NOT in the corrupted patriarchal court system but in our larger society.
Our daughters and grand-daughters know that Trump said he grabbed women by their genitals, as do our sons and grandsons. How do they process Trump being elected because of not despite his overt sexism and racism?
Men are given license and then some if accountability is a joke. At this time, Americans must behave as if sexual assault and racist murder are crimes. Outlaw NDAs. Appoint special prosecutors for all police shootings. Me too must become not my daughter/son. Black lives matter a DNC plank.
2
Too bad Hillary Clinton can't/won't speak out about this.
9
It's inaccurate to say that *men* are the problem. Rather: a very small percentage of men are the majority of the problem. Any such analogous suggestion that all women bear responsibility for the actions of a few would not be tolerated. (Similarly with respect to any race...other than white, of course...)
One could criticize many things about this editorial...but, really, why bother? I'll just point to the creepiness of hoping to make men "afraid" of not reacting "correctly" to "things" happening "around them." Should we also make women afraid not to report such things? Including the victims? Because the orthodox leftist/feminist line is that women bear no such responsibility whatsoever to report--they are always to be excuse for failure to go public or bring charges. Apparently, however, men who aren't involved at all have a greater responsibility than women who are directly involved.
The contemporary "progressive" left is daft. I've been a centrist liberal my whole life, but I'm being driven farther away every day by the blatant irrationality--and racism and sexism--of the contemporary left. Or: at lest the vocal vanguard of the left. The good ideas of ordinary liberalism--like not blaming whole groups for the actions of a few--have been abandoned. Some have even been turned into sins: color-blindness in racial matters, we're now often told, is itself racism.
Well, thanks, I guess, NYT, for helping drive home the foolishness of your side...yet again...
13
Thanks for helping me not feel like I'm alone, or a terrible person, for thinking this way.
4
No, this does nothing except to make men more wary and distrustful of the women they may have to interact with. If I were a man or male in a position of authority I would have video and audio systems installed in my office as well as wear body cameras, can't take any chances anymore. Another step may also be the consideration of buying one of the newest models of companion dolls on sale as seen in Japan or upscale prostitutes if one has to have the real thing.
8
No, it's not going to reform men. Look who became the president. And, women who seem to prize their race over their own rights contributed to his election. That makes me lose any hope about any real changes. As long as they make any of us believe that other causes are more important than our own rights, it will not change.
3
One aspect of sexual harassment that is not being discussed, but no less important is the “official” or Congressional sexual harassment of women . . . and I don’t mean congressmen or senators trading sex for jobs. This discussion is about women being able to freely make a choice about their own bodies in personal or work situations, being able to say ‘No.” Yet this Congress and Administration is harassing and threatening women through health care: Defund Planned Parenthood, eliminate birth control pills from health insurance coverage (what about Viagra?), do not allow medical abortion costs be covered in health insurance policies for federal workers regardless of the medical situation, make it more difficult for poor women to get health insurance or medical care. Less government regulation/interference in business and the economy but more government interference in women’s lives. Why doesn’t that fit the definition of sexual harassment?
4
To be honest, I'm surprised these powerful men are being held to account. I'm a young woman (29) and basically always assumed that I would have to put up with some level of sexual harassment at work. I'm shocked and hearted that society has finally started to care about this issue.
6
Men with this pattern of behavior will only change when there are real consequences. Women must be able to call them out and report them, but if they are not famous or wealthy, that is most likely not be an option for them. So the short answer is no.
3
Considering Hollywood and the not so hypothetical scenario where a powerful man is choosing between dozens of equally talented young actresses who have all spent years working menial jobs hoping for a break; would it be unlikely that those hopeful stars would all refrain from propositioning such a person? Furthermore how reasonable would it be for such a person to turn down all offers? Many years ago I worked in a small off off Broadway theater and the stage manager was often faced with propositions from actresses doing readings for roles. He stayed out of trouble because he was gay, but I don't think such reluctance to accept a proposition is the rule.
One could also look at situations where actresses date and wed men who are already famous power brokers or stars in their own right. Think of Mena Suvari and Robert Brinkmann or even Lauren Bacall and Bogart. It's not so easy sometimes to discern where exploitation ends and affectionate alliances begin.
Yes certainly the stories where producers overtly proposition women are obvious immoral and criminal attempts at abuse, but like the illegal drug industry, there are forces on both sides at work here.
6
Women in positions of power equally commit abuse, although not necessarily in the form of sexual harrasment. I think this discussion of men abusing women should move away from the pure sexual theme and more into those who abuse of their power regardless of their tactics. Whether sexual, physical or psychological, any form of abuse, is equally damaging and punishable.
5
I believe there has been a change in societal attitudes, though still only partial. In the past, and still (to a lesser extent) today, many people observe such behavior and say to themselves: 'This is a real, red-blooded man, an alpha male.' There is a belief that alpha-maleness is linked to a strong and sometimes ruthless sex drive. There may be an official sense of disapproval, but there was and is also an undercurrent of approval and admiration, even among some women. Truth be told, this is part of the appeal of Trump. I have heard Trump supporters using that very language: 'He's a real man!'
And as in the case of many evils, in the past it was 'forgiven' by humor. There are many cartoons featuring bosses chasing their secretaries around the desk. It seemed funny. It did not occur to people to use the term 'sexual assault', though indeed it was.
A more hidden victim is the actress who does not trade sexual favors for roles, and loses jobs to a less qualified actress who will.
While this is an unrealistic output, Ideal reforms would end with an environment where harassed actresses would always report such improprieties and never trade sexual favors for roles. That would create an environment where it would be pointless to ask, and where casting would done more by merit.
Perhaps the actress having greater merit who loses a role because they do not trade sexual favors is more a victim than the one who does.
John
4
From my years of working in the economy, I have seen all forms of harassment - the worst against blacks - and experienced my share. Work harassment is an adult form of bullying, practiced by both women and men in power. What is conspicuously missing is a definition of harassment - including sexual and all other types.
With Weinstein's well known reputation as a predator how many of those who settled for large sums or received excellent roles might have set him up, given that we are not living in age of female innocence, but active feminism? Since sleeping with the producer has always been one way to stardom, shouldn't this be considered standard practice, with shared responsibility? Hugging, some touching, etc have long been a way of bonding in work as elsewhere, so what is harassment and who is defining it? When women wear sexually provocative clothes to work - traditionally reserved for entertainment and intimacy - that interfere with the work routines of males and induce verbal or looking responses in response, why is that sexual harassment of women and not also of men? Do those women wear their diamonds on the subway and leave their apartments unlocked? An honest and deeper look at both sides of the male-female equation is needed, instead of another attack on men - and even boys. We have to be careful of not indulging in radical attacks of maleness such as MCP and “all sex is rape”.
2
I agree with the Editorial Board that the allegations against Bill Clinton are just that - allegations. It is important that this editorial point out that Clinton has denied the long string of allegations of sexual misconduct and rape. The fact that other men mentioned in this piece deny allegations is not relevant. Clinton alone is entirely trustworthy.
It is not even clear that Clinton actually had sex with the women who have accused him of sexual assault. It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.
The fact that Clinton paid Paula Jones $850,000 to drop her suit is not evidence of guilt.
The women who spoke up against Bill Clinton should not be believed. If you drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you'll find.
There was nothing wrong with having sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. It’s legal because when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything.
The New York Times should be proud that they have stood with Clinton throughout these years. They are surely not responsible for inoculating Trump from sexual assault claims. Trump voters did not notice the hypocrisy of Hillary and the media with the outrage after the Billy Bush tape was released.
7
I love how men are sounding off about this issue. What do they know?
Poor babies. They are being picked on after centuries of benefiting from the catholic church "women are less" mantra and culture.
Stop complaining boys and help create a socially balanced civilization where the male model hate-anger-fear-WAR doesn't continually destroy us.
10
I repeat:
The Con Don's fall is what Socially Conscious Women demand. The much-needed backlash against Roger Ailes, Bill O'Reilly, Weinstein and all the other predatory men who have been called out in the last few weeks - and those who have not yet been called out - is a direct reaction to the fact that a corrupt, woman-hating predatory imposter is lurking around OUR white house because the "socially unconscious male woman-hating Robber Baron/Radical religion/war-mongering cabal" pulled off a hostile financial takeover coup against the rest of us.
You ain't seen nothing yet. Women will not go back to the 5th/15th century these men envision. Blacks will not go back. Other minorities will not go back. Socially conscious men will not go back.
OUR votes will prove it in the next elections.
6
Two summers ago, I attended an event at the Nantucket Film Festival, a panel of women who have positions of power in Hollywood - especially one woman who headed a cable network. She told the audience a story about how, when her 11 year old son makes fun of her younger daughter, she will make a joke about his penis. The audience, sharply taken back, didn't know whether to laugh or groan. When asked to explain the comment, she repeated it, with obviously zero comprehension of how this would affect this boy's life. The entire problem with this debate is that it leaves no room for defining terms or decency. Stating that Weinstein, O'Reilly and their ilk are guilty only of "sexual harassment" is absurd. These fall under the category of sexual assault. Why they were not reported for years is known only to those involved. Monitoring every encounter and treating it as a crime is another blatant absurdity that has left us pointing fingers at people with the same degree of intensity that you would to a Weinstein. Women also flirt at work. Women can be aggressive. Men routinely do not think to report or blame women for naturally occurring behaviors that often lead to good relationships or friendships. The lack of nuance and humanity in this discussion is why other important matters also get relegated to irrelevancy after the hype is over. Boys AND girls should be raised in a culture that supported them instead of introducing them to the myriad and hypocritical world of litigation.
12
When I was 12 years old in 1963, I was sitting in an assembly at my junior high school and overheard two boys making a joke at my expense: "She's a carpenter's dream - flat as a board and easy to screw." I'd never even kissed a boy. Later, as a part-time waitress in college, a customer asked if I could "warm up the rolls between my legs." The owner's favorite "joke" was to ask the waitresses to meet him in the back room with their "panties off." To whom should I have reported the customer's abuse? Women learn at an early age that sexual harassment goes with the territory. We're supposed to grin and bear it. Men "are just joking." That old show tune - "It's great being a girl." That's satire, right?
18
That must have been terrible, CW. Try, "That is not funny" and walk away. Something that simple might work in cases like this.
6
How exactly did you know they were taking about you?
The article says that 25% of women have experienced this misconduct. I don't know whether this makes mathematical sense, but you might conclude that about a quarter of all men act in this way, more or hopefully a lot less. That matches with my experience.
But I'd prefer to put it another way. At least three quarters of men would never do this. It offers them no satisfaction and offends their most basic beliefs. So the title of the article seems rather naive. I'm not sure anything can change the way these men act. They are hard wired that way and maybe even genetically so. Also although many women have complained, others have not and that may be something more or less permanent also.
We can surely organize our workplaces to minimize this conduct but I seriously doubt that some men and some women will be changed by one man's public humiliation and punishment.
4
The article is wrong about one-in-four women, Mickey D. Those are "reported" cases. At least one in three women are raped. I would say that only 1% of women have not been sexually harassed or abused in their lifetime.
Unfortunately, this behavior has been such a part of the culture for centuries that girls/women think it's normal. It's not normal and is not acceptable.
7
No, I believe you are wrong. The article says that conservative estimates put it at 25%, not that 25% report anything. And the idea that 33% of all women are raped has been throughly debunked. If you define harassment broadly enough (someone asking you out who you don't want to go out with is sexual harassment) then the number is probably 100%.
5
You have got to be kidding me. Men have been harassing women for as long as we have been upright. Women have been accepting or rebuffing these advances for just as long. The problem isn't men - you cannot over generalize and put every male into the category of "predator"and women "prey." And, vice versa, and harassment of men on men, and women on women.
I wonder what kind of utopia the NYTimes workplace really is. I would love to see how many hirings, assignments, and promotions at the NYT are based solely on merit. Lest we forget lawsuit brought against the NYT by 7 women on behalf of 550 others who sued the newspaper in 1974 over sex discrimination in hiring, pay and promotion.
5
You are right it is all men. I would like all men on the editorial board and owners of the NYT’s to either step down, sell their shares and use that money to hire and replace male coworkers with women.
Until we have divested male investment and power from our beacons of honesty and truth like the NYT we will not know if men are being enriched or continuing to use power to entrench pernicious patriarchy.
So please all male and male identified members of the editorial board please step down and replace them with real women. Don’t be an ally, be something better, be at home and have a women take your place.
Oh wait this would be bigotry. Haha I forgot.
9
Honest to god I think this "Weinstein fiasco" is just unbelievable. I mean everyone in Hollywood has suddenly been "raped" or "molested" or "abused" by this man. Where, pray tell, have these HUNDREDS of BIG NAME people been for the last......fifty years perhaps? Sure seems like it must have lasted that long. We're not talking about helpless poor women who are too frightened to come forward. These people didn't come forward because they preferred to gain wealth and stardom regardless of the consequences and now there's such a flood or accusations as to be laughable. I heard someone was going to claim that Greta Garbo had been molested by Weinstein too until they realized she's been dead too long. That counts out pinning it on Bill Cosby too. Remember him? Sorry folks but I just can't have much sympathy for people like Rose McGowan suddenly jumping on the band wagon with all sorts of claims. If she wasn't willing to come forward when it happened then why is she coming forward, together with the countless other big names, so suddenly now?
7
I don't think you can legislate human behavior. It has been tried before, but the results have been uniformly disastrous.
Also, feminist condemnations of Sexism and sexual harassment could ironically increase sexual harassment and sexism.
Although Trump has severe character flaws, he won. Why do you think it happened? Every time we heard Hillary and her minions talk about the glass ceiling many of us inwardly growled "For God's sake, for over 50 years I have been hearing an incessant feminist whine."
Sometimes liberal reforms provoke and induce reactionary politics, e.g., the benefits of reconstruction were destroyed when America tired of policies that tired to asssit the free slaves and produced Jim Crow; the steady improvement in the Status of European Jewry, from the French Revolution to the early 1920's, produced evey and hate that resulted in the volcanic wrath of the Holocaust.
Very often, liberal progress is succeeded by savage reaction.
Things don't always get better. Often, we go one step forward and then two steps back.
5
Boys must be taught why that behavior is wrong and continue that education as they become teenagers so by the time they get to college there will be less sexual assaults. Men will continue to do as they have for generations unless it effects their career or pocket book.
1
No, his fall won't finally reform men any more than Obama's Presidency ended racism.
8
Eventually we'll have to address the fact that for every Harvey Weinstein there is a female who is too forward, too aggressive, and puts herself on men at her workplace inappropriately. Judging by the commentary, it's less well understood than the obvious practice of sexual aggression by men.
5
I admit that's an ISSUE too but it's not the same CK.
The ONLY way I can put it, there are women that wear too tight clothes and get too drunk,...neither of those conditions entitles someone to "Rape" them.
But back to your example, the women I've known that dress and act that way (and I don't like it either BTW), aren't the ones I've known to be "Violated".
2
That's a strange ramble from inside your guesswork, more about you than about the subject under discussion. Four uses of "I" in such a short post in indication of inability to keep your ego out of your thinking. Who cares what you "admit"? Why is how you can ONLY put something pertinent? Who said a thing about rape, in scare quotes no less? Junk!
“Let’s not forget — let’s not ever forget — Bill Cosby, Roger Ailes and Bill O’Reilly, three giants of American popular culture who treated women despicably for decades....”
News flash for the Editorial Board - it’s not just Weinstein, or Cosby or Ailes or O’Reilly....ALL giants of American popular culture have treated women despicably for decades. In culture, and business, and government, and military, and religion, and everything else. And not just America, but worldwide. And not just for decades, but forever, since the beginning of time.
1
After trump's genital grabbing statement how could a woman vote for him? Most men are pigs and are excited at the thought of being in a position of authority that enables them to coerce sex from women. Society teaches men and women their roles, so teachers are needed to make the change. Weinstein's victims' speaking out is a start.
2
Fat ugly chance... Harvey's not taking a fall. He's got his lawyers lined up and he's taking it to court. Next up, a reality TV show, a book deal, and clothing line specializing in bathrobes!
2
It is not about "power and money." It is about the male's sex drive coupled with his innate inability to believe the object of his lust really does not want him. Some men are able to understand what's wrong with this behavior; some are too low-functioning to understand, some are too rotten to care.
It's the rotten types of males who gain power. It's not the other way around.
When will women learn to handle these gorillas? Laugh in their faces, my friends. Smack them. Scream. Shout about what they did to you to the rooftops. Do not weep. Do not accept apologies. Do not accept bribes. Do not do nothing.
(Sorry for this nitpick, but please, Editorial Board, be careful with your "whom" and "who" usage.)
4
It's pleasing in a grotesque and schadenfreude-ish way to think of the hundreds or more likely thousands of men watching the news and Twitter every day in terror that women they harassed over the years might come out of the woodwork and (perhaps, in the current and sudden but possibly fleeting punitive atmosphere) end their careers in public and well-deserved humiliation. Any big shots you know suddenly quiet and drinking more? Suffer, lowlifes.
6
Bingo, NYT, the reporting of inappropriate behavior is the new paradigm for men and women. Some companies will recognize that it's a good time to confirm policies, training, and commitment. The long overdue wave of "No More" is rising.
The smartest executives and boards know that anything less than every duck in a row is all kinds of bad business. Getting it right is easy to say and to hard to do.
A good litmus test? If the company is not actively training the malingering attitudes out of the company's culture and filling the void with positive culture, then what are the prospects of having administrators and executives who actually make correct decisions and fulfill their processes? Not great.
Those employees (including leaders) retaining their 'jerk' spirit animal are going to be the idiots that get administrators / executives tested on whether all 'jerk' nonsense is important. It is, and now every bit of it will be reported. Adminstrators will no longer be spared the smaller incidents because it also needs to be reported.
1
" finally reform men " oh please !
Weinstein was not typical of any group of men. " men " are not in need of reform.
7
The issue really is about the ugly two-step these predators do between rank abuse of power and then, if needed, a pay-off with an NDA.
So I am not sure what you are referring to when you say "men." Do you mean all men? Inuits? Canucks? Finnish pensioners? Prince Harry?
Just so sloppy, and I hate to see the NYT start to pump out this kind of headline to a serious matter.
Because the fact is, this is about certain individuals, and the gender is a variable, not the thing itself. Predation is the issue, and if anything, what needs to really be reformed, is the power of an NDA agreement. One should never be able to indenture someone to not reporting a crime.
Focus, NYT, focus. This is the issue.
4
Did Anthony Wiener's fall finally reform exhibitionists? There is a compulsion at work. After all, it's not so hard to get women to sleep with you by letting them make up their own minds. Sexual predators are attracted to executive positions the way pedophiles are attracted to elementary schools and the priesthood. The perversion comes first, not the power. You will get rid of it the way you get ride of pedophilia, by keeping sexual predators out of key positions.
1
Neutering should be a prerequisite for any position of power in this country, then watch how fast women start running the place. This problem is solved, unlikely though that any other ones will be.
U.S. is still - after hundreds of years - profoundly racist. Will sexism be ended? Sadly not. The lizard-brains are ubiquitous. And they are in positions of power.
4
How telling that many men commenting on this article are more appalled by the headline than the content. Yes, yes, women are consistently being sexually harassed/raped by men in positions of power who then use that power to silence them, but good god let's not offend the male population by suggesting that this is a male problem. Here's your gold star for not sexually harassing women! No, not all men are pervs, but all the accused individuals in the stories coming to light are men. If men don't like that, maybe they could teach the next generation of boys that women are more than objects for their pleasure or an entitlement that comes with positions of power. Could we instead focus on the women whose lives have been affected by this behavior and not the fragile male egos who need confirmation that "male lives matter too" because they've never assaulted a woman?
6
Astonishing that this issue has eluded Hollywood for so long, while most of corporate America has at least somewhat put a lid on it by having a Human Resources department.
"A lid on it"? Hardly. HR hates lawsuits and loves to protect its own.
absurd headline. no. will we actually put systems in place with real teeth to deter this? maybe.
2
"Will 9-11 reform Muslims?" (smile).
Why on earth should men reform because Weinstein has (presumably) acted badly?
You do not want to take the behavior of one (or several) Muslims to judge ALL Muslims. But you have NO trouble judging ALL men by the behavior of Weinstein and some others like him.
Your sexism is patent.
13
Nothing will change. Power will always be abused.
Still, one thing is certain about the saga of Weinstein: Hollywood will make a great movie out of it, no doubt just in time for the Oscars.
The only drama will be how much weight George Clooney has to gain to play Harvey.
1
In a word, no.
4
The problem isn't "men". It is a few men whose behavior ranges from lewd remarks and indecent proposals through physical harassment and rape. At the worse end of this range it is criminal (any deliberate unwanted touching is criminal), and should be prosecuted as such; at the mild end a sharp slap across the face is the traditional remedy (not a crime if a woman is defending her honor).
3
No. Sociopathology is rampant in the echelons of power in business, politics, the military, etc. That’s part of the reason some of these men are in those positions in the first place.
1
Will Weinstein's fall reform men? In a word: No. Sure, it will create a great deal of extra caution in a lot of men. This is especially true in high profile areas and large businesses. But in the more down to earth environments, on the street, why would it?
No, the only way to create an immediate change in behavior is to completely change the culture: movies, music, television, news media, etc. Revise it all. AND... remove all that has gone before, all that currently exists. That's right... destroy all the movies, all the raunchy music, all the "dumb-blonde jokes." Because all this culture is what creates little men out of little boys. All of what Harvey Weinstein is and was is wrapped up in all the cultural mayhem in which we exist.
It can't be done... at least not quickly.
2
Sorry to disagree: sexual harassment is NOT a matter of money or power. It is OUR culture! And to be more specific in the USA, its cultural origin combines nowadays with our “Hollywood roots”: the western films with WASP macho men called cowboys, with a gun dangling from their belly. Their ancestors were the Greek Heroes, with their little dagger in their hand. They still influence our subconscious, conditioning our social behavior. An archeological find indicates that Ulysses was a gang rapist and Hercules a femicide. All this and more in a serious yet funny essay that explains the origin of the worst aspects of our society: “Our Lady Goddess & The Femicide of the Heroes”. (Free download from a San Francisco academic site.
1
I don't want to confuse the issue here, which is violence against women, but reality matters. Ulysses and Heracles were not real people, so there's no "archaelogical" evidence against heroes of Western mythology being rapists or perpetrators of any real world crimes. Please don't be lazy or lie to make an argument. It paints people trying to be taken seriously with a hysterical, manipulative brush.
R U joking? Speaking as a man, no, nothing will ever reform them. But as an old girlfriend of mine used to say, "men are dogs" and I would add, can be trained in similar fashion. If they are going to punished for their more obnoxious behavior and more importantly, know they are going to be punished, and what's more, if the punishment is fair and rational and meted out justly, most men will probably respond well, like good dogs do.
But there will always bad dogs.
2
In general? It would be nice, but probably not.
Men and women are marinated in the idea that women are possessions or prizes. Until this is no longer reinforced implicitly and explicitly by their role models and the dominant culture in their lives, this nonsense will continue another several thousand years. (It does not help that societies continue to define professional success by the garnering, amassing and wanton abuse of of such prizes.)
Reality continues to bite.
6
Interestingly this article does not address one aspect of the Weinstein episode which is that it took place in what I’ll just call the “golden ghetto” of the gig economy…a place where there are few “rules” and actors are (once established) essentially well paid independent contractors but who nevertheless must maintain relationships along with their personal and performance reputations in order to continue procuring work. Yes…GIG ECONOMY.
While it is true that many people today continue to work for large corporations ranging from McDonalds to Exxon to Facebook etc., more and more people are lower-end gig economy workers for whom standard workplace rules outlined in this editorial may not apply. If I am a freelance photographer and cannot get my foot in the door with the art director for a major ad agency without listening to off-color jokes and getting my butt grabbed, is there any reality / real-world-based recourse?
Perhaps highlighting the public shaming capabilities of social media is the lesson to be learned from the last 6 weeks.
3
Hey Quentin T
I am calling you out dude. Stand up, put your money where your mouth is hire Rose for you next film and write it around her. Make up for your silence please.
All lives matter. She is a pretty good actress and you'd do both her and yourself a lot of good. Just think about it please.
1
Can we stop already with this War on Men?
8
Nope, it's just getting started JP and it's high time.
4
Take a number. Busy waiting for the War on Women to stop first.
I won't hold my breath.
4
Just getting started? Where have you been? It started years ago and is the reason we now have Trump.
2
No, of course not.
Poor men might end up in jail, but the rich and powerful men - like Harvey Weinstein and Bill O'Reilly - will simply pay a settlement (32 million for Bill) or seek phony medical treatment (Harvey).
Kind of like gun regulation. The picture of 20 small coffins didn't produce change, nor did the election of Obama.
You get the government and society you deserve.
6
Like many women--
I've reported documented cases of harassment through the official channels and watched my bosses, male and female, bury it.
It often comes down to: Either file a lawsuit, or go away.
In my experience large institutions are much more inclined to protect harassers than to defend people who are harassed.
38
The matter of Harvey Weinstein's fall. along with those of Bill Cosby, Roger Ailes and Bill O’Reilly, and the "powerful influential men" that were recently called out for sexual misconduct is not at all one and the same as what constitutes sexual harassment in the workplace.
Sexual harassment is basically any situation in which a woman feels she is being subjected to a hostile environment related to the fact that she is a woman. This includes things such as men watching porn in her presence for example, not to mention behavior that goes no further than verbal comments directed towards her.
Now the type of thing that the formerly mentioned men were accused of wasn't even merely sexual misconduct, but acting in ways that were perverted and outright disgusting. They were the type of acts that in order for them to be able to reach a settlement with the victim instead of her taking her claim to court they had to pay huge sums in the millions of dollars.
However most of what constitutes sexuall harrasment doesn't even rise to the level of a cause of action that can be brought in court that would legally qualify as a tort.
And since the focus of the past few weeks has been ex;usiverly on harassment that was of a serious and severe nature, it is not likely to trickle down to the type of harassment that is more of a workplace issue, than the much more serious types of actions that those powerful men committed.
2
The whole sexist, objectifying culture needs to change.
For example, look at any local newscast. The men all wear business suits but the women are all in cocktail dresses. As long as men are expected to dress for utility while woman are expected to dress for attraction, women will be objectified.
Further to this point, many women willingly exploit their sexuality for financial gain and/or career advancement. This is overwhelmingly true in fashion and the performing arts... I am reminded of the scene in La La Land where the aspiring actresses are getting dolled-up ahead of a party at the mansion home of some Hollywood big shot and singing about how they need to make make an impression:
[Tracy:]
You make the right impression
Then ev'rybody knows your name
[Alexis & Caitlin:]
We're in the fast lane
[Alexis:]
Someone in the crowd
Could be the one you need to know
The one to fin'lly lift you off the ground
[Tracy:]
Someone in the crowd could
Take you where you wanna go
If you're the someone ready to be found
[Caitlin & Tracy:]
Do what you need to do
'Til they discover you
4
While I'm as disgusted as others by Swinestein and his fellow pigs I do have a question. An attractive woman with generous decolletage is walking towards a man. How should he respond:
1. Make believe he sees nothing and that he's just had a profound thought.
2. Take a quick peek but hope to be subtle.
3. Make certain he keeps strict eye to eye contact.
4. Immediately look at the ground.
3
How about just treat her like another man?
3
"Reform Men"? In my world - Texas, 1.5%-er, retired engineer - the vast majority of men do not behave like Weinstein and other members of the Hollywood, media, or banking elite of New York and California. Evidently, the members of the NYT editorial board live in places where most men are cads.
2
This commentary reflects what is wrong with our society.
The absurdity of linking bad behavior with a gender is as offensive as linking crime with a race. Where one ought to question how: socially acceptable behavior is discarded to feed lust (yes, "men" are aware that rape and unwanted 'grabbing' is wrong ); how Weinstein created an ecosystem in which he could engage in this outrageous behavior (an ecosystem comprised of both genders); how people trade sex for money and fame (yes, there are people of both genders who willingly do this. And Hollywood is avoided by many for this reason); what our moral underpinning is when we live in a society awash with pornography, when our children are exposed to sexual imagery from an early age.
In the end, we have to question what we feed our minds to decide how we form our character. The demonization/victimization narrative applied to genders is nothing more than a lazy copout.
5
Has America at last reached a turning point on sexual harassment? Perhaps not a “turning point” but definitely a change in perspective regarding standards of social conduct as well as sexual agency by powerful men. I would encourage people to take a moment to re-read Nora Ephron’s breezy 2003 NY Times opinion piece: “All the President’s Girls”. For the one or two people on the planet who don’t know…Nora was a groundbreaking and beloved female reporter, humorist, essayist and Hollywood veteran director. I think it's safe to say that somewhere along the line she became somewhat of a feminist icon. Then...do a little reading up on Mimi Fahnestock. and what happened during HER summer internship.
In 2003 she wrote:
“Now that I have read the articles about Mimi Fahnestock, it has become horribly clear to me that I am probably the only young woman who ever worked in the Kennedy White House whom the president did not make a pass at. Perhaps it was my permanent wave, which was a truly unfortunate mistake. Perhaps it was my wardrobe, which mostly consisted of multicolored dynel dresses that looked like distilled Velveeta cheese. Perhaps it's because I'm Jewish -- don't laugh, think about it, think about that long, long list of women J.F.K. slept with. Were any Jewish? I don't think so.”
I hate to sound like Ross Douthat…but…do your think she would have been able to take that tone…in 2017…regarding one of the most notorious womanizers in White House history.
2
It really isn't about men, as much as it is about sexual behavior. We have young children, both boys, and girls used to fulfil the pleasure of men all around the world in all classes, races, and religions. The fact that it has taken over 50 years to see and deal with the issue of molestation in the Catholic church of over 11,000 young boys that came forward, and probably as many that didn't, shows that it is sexual behavior. The sex drive is the strongest drive there is in the human animal, and males in the animal kingdom, generally speaking, have been physical larger than the female animal, so they have easily had their way with them since the beginning of time. The media and those in power in all parts of society, whether religion, business, the entertainment industry, the internet, etc. have looked the other way with this depending on how much power someone held, and whether they were in the same tribe, meaning race, religion, gender, and class. New York City has had a long history of this type of behavior in all parts of its society, whether government, Wall Street, politics, the fashion industry with models, etc. and convention and tourism business. This is nothing new in that larger populations will have more numbers of deviant and predatory people with these behaviors, which often were ones that made money for the women and men who often headed escort and prostitution services, and the men, and a few women who paid for these services.
1
Just saw the wonderful documentary, "Jane," about Jane Goodall, who lived in Africa among the chimpanzees for decades. We have so much in common!
We are simply animals. Alpha males are not going away.
The behavior of Weinstein and others is reprehensible. But the fact is: The sex drive is a very powerful appetite, as much as our biological need for water, food, and air.
Solution: Legalize the world's oldest profession with mandatory health and safety requirements.
Bonus: A major drop in human trafficking, and a large monetary contribution to our starving Treasury coffers through taxation of the "sex business."
6
If this were the case, Trump would not be president
1
American men is far too broad an indictment. This is limited to the small percentage of powerful and wealthy men who are sociopaths. The typical male has never done any of the things these men are accused of.
5
The Con Don's fall is what Socially Conscious Women demand. The much-needed backlash against Roger Ailes, Bill O'Reilly, Weinstein and all the other predatory men who have been called out in the last few weeks - and those who have not yet been called out - is a direct reaction to the fact that a corrupt, woman-hating predatory imposter is lurking around OUR white house because the "socially unconscious male woman-hating Robber Baron/Radical religion/war-mongering cabal" pulled off a hostile financial takeover coup against the rest of us.
You ain't seen nothing yet. Women will not go back to the 5th/15th century these men envision. Blacks will not go back. Other minorities will not go back. Socially conscious men will not go back.
OUR votes will prove it in the next elections.
1
Hope springs eternal, njglea, but I doubt you or I will see any real change in our lifetimes.
For nearly 70 years I've observed the ignorance, bigotry, misogyny, racism, and all manner of abuse endure and thrive, against those who are not able to fight back, lest their ability to live a reasonable life be adversely affected.
And the powerful, whether such be a Weinstein 1%ter, a CEO of a national firm, or the everyday manager, in any company USA, they nearly always win, and believe me being able to pay out large sums of money to buy silence, is winning.
The abomination pretending to be our President, nearly a year ruining what little of our Democracy is left, has at least 3 years to go, maybe 7 if we don't get it together; by then our once somewhat fair democracy will be dead, and waiting for our useless Democratic Party to rescue us is not a viable alternative.
We need to start over, new clean empathetic leaders are needed, with zero allegiance to any special interests.
1
The imbalance of power allows this nonsense.
Pay women equally, and get out of women's reproductive decision making.
The more society does that more the power imbalance shifts, and the more the workplace will reflect respect.
4
The reforming of predatory men also requires the reforming of women who enable such men. Hillary Clinton spearheaded efforts to degrade and demean women whom her husband had harassed and assaulted because her husband was her vehicle to power and success. The sexual harassment of defenseless women is a problem for both sexes.
3
The last paragraph - about changing male attitudes - should have been the first paragraph. Instead, it is appended to the bottom as an afterthought, which suggests the Editorial Board believes that changing men is either impossible, or that changing men is not the larger problem.
It will never go away. Teach your children well. (son's and daughters).
1
This is not about just a few individual bad apples. Sexism, like racism, is systemic. It is built into our laws and our institutions and the very fabric of our culture. The whole patriarchal barrel is rotten.
2
I wonder how women who worked in the Times news room in the past REMEMBER their treatment by male coworkers. Preach away, I guess, but it's hard to imagine you have the most virtuous pedestal.
2
The headline is absurd - not to mention slightly orwellian. Have we succeded in stopping war? Murder? Greed? Have we eliminated hate? You can punish behaviour but you can't eliminate it.
2
It is too late for a "man?" to reform. The best way to STOP a male or female predator is to dial 911 immediately. Do not bother screaming "help: or "rape."
Scream "FIRE!" Everyone wants to see the fire, but are usually too afraid to "help." Reform school for rapists? Surely you jest.
Try PRISON. Place ALL sexual abusers and rapists in the SAME prison, and for a VERY long time. No one, not even a sex offender of the worst sort (aren't they all?) would survive it.
That might work for the Weinsteins of the world Harvey Weinstein should register NOW as a sex offender. You know, to show his less than genuine "remorse."
1
One aspect not talked about is legalizing prostitution. Men are like little factories producing product, all the time, women are like warehouses with product to spare but not making anything new, just what's on the shelf. So any good guardian of the warehouse wants to make certain who pulls up to the loading dock has the right credentials to take out the goods. Men on the other hand want to see their product on every shelf in the country, so to speak. So that's the conundrum, does legalized prostitution have a place, other than in Nevada and Europe? Most of the wrongdoers like Weinstein were married and should have kept their loads hitched up at home. Other than that what's the problem?
3
When do we hear from women about female seductive behavior? About office flirting? About being so-and-so's "work wife." About seeking "mentors" from more senior, powerful and older men? Platonic seduction is easily confused with its randier cousin.
When do we find out why stiletto heels are deemed "professional" attire? Real professional women who had the smarts to succeed at the rigorous academic training required for careers such as: scientist, engineer, accountant, doctor, nurse, medical technician, any flower in the garden of professional —"ologists," college professor, psychiatrist, pilot, astronaut, police officer, military officer, etc. etc. don't usually wear high heels at work. Real professional women stand tall on what they know, not how they look.
Any theory that women are 100% innocent in the sexual interplay between women and men is hogwash. When do we hear the part about women's responsibilities in those encounters?
8
Sexual harrassment is one kind of bullying that takes place in the workplaces and organizations of all kinds. A case in point: Donald Trump. He bullies anybody he considers a threat to his status or goals, male or female. As we see played out every day, his victims have a difficult time dealing with his bully behavior. Bullies usually win because their victims' allies remain silent or abandon them to protect themselves from the bully, just like Republicans in Congress are doing.
1
We thought the Obama’s ascendency to presidency will be a revival of humanity. We now have the answer to how that turned out: we have a misogynist in the White House. Also, remember majority of white women voted for Trump. So I have serious doubts that anything will change\improve.
2
Sexual harassment in the workplace, at least, ends when management and the board of directors recognize the costs, including the loss of productivity and talent, of harassment. And when the rampant cronyism is abandoned.
2
What I find interesting is that this pro lem was figured out 400 years ago by a writer who seemed to know human nature better than anyone before or since. His name was Shakespeare and here is what he said:' the fault dear ( substitute whatever persn or group you wish ) is NOT (emphasis mine) in our stars, but in OURSELVES (emphasis mine).
We spend so much time and wordsmithing trying to blame it on one thing or another ---men or ego or Chauvinism-or one of the other perversions. We are REALLY GOOD at pinning the blame on everything but ourselves. LOOK in to the mirror--that is where the answer lies, not on the horoscope page.
1
Two days ago, Slate published an article about how Rep. Steve King is introducing a bill to ban abortion at six weeks, without provisions for rape or the health of the mother, and including jail time for doctors who perform abortions. Why bring this up with this article? Because the New York Times hasn't even reported on this move by King, indicating that the paper doesn't consider it newsworthy. Or filler. We regard women as chattel. Men by and large subscribe to this view, and being the ones in power, use/tolerate/abuse women as they see fit or as they wish. There is so much power in this set-up that it would take moving heaven and earth to change it. Most men deny it even exists, in their lives anyway. We will rail against the sexual predators for awhile, then it will die down and everything will get back to "normal." Normal. Where are the men on this issue and why isn't it being discussed widely? There is no provision in the bill to bring men who impregnate women to account. Why would there be? We live in a culture that gives men a pass over and over, so much so that it is the norm. I have no hope anything will change for the better. I ache for the future of American women. I'm older and will die sooner rather than later. I tried hard in my lifetime to support equality, but it won't happen in my lifetime. All indicators point to an end to the small freedoms women have enjoyed for not even a century.
1
Some men (not men in general as the headline implies) don't see sexual harassment as a behavior in need of reform or correction because they are not simply being disrespectful to women. There are varying degrees of sexual harassment from the simply terms "babe, honey, sweetheart" to rape. It's about power and it's about control. As long as these men who commit varying degrees of sexual harassment need and want power and control, women will always be a potential victim. It's more than a attitude with these men. This crude and hurtful behavior runs much deeper, almost on a love/hate/despise level with these men. Harvey Weinstein is merely another man who has gotten away with his actions far too long. Good luck trying to "reforming" these men. It's women who need to speak up - not shut up.
2
I’m so tired of reading about harassment. I’m so tired of it because it’s 2017 and it shouldn’t be so common. Why are we not civilized?
I’m just going to come out and say it. PARENTING. Why is it so absent?
The jerk who mistreated you as a young professor has no place in the workforce. And it is fantastic that his/her actions did not affect you profoundly.
But there is a crucial difference between the anecdotes you recount and sexual harassment. Not only did I feel demeaned and powerless when my boss grabbed the hem of my skirt without provocation. Or when a supervisor knocked on my hotel door at 10 p.m. while on a business trip. Or when a senior colleague called me into his office to tell me lewd jokes.
The real fear though is that I might have been expected to give these men a hand job (or worse) or let them kiss or touch me to keep my job or get a good evaluation.
It's not just millionaire actresses who put up with this behavior. It's million of average women. Don't discount our experiences.
1
Economic Influence. Power. These are the two main reasons that allow women to be persecuted by men. Harvey Weinstein is the perfect example of both of these "influences". Some brave and integral women come out and tell the world what some men have done to them in the past. Most women feel as though they will be shut down by the men who persecuted them. Others feel as though the world will not listen.
All of these fears and mistrust in the candidness of society... they are not reasons women should be afraid to come out and tell the world what a man has done to her. The problem lies not within the hearts of men, but in the obedience of a people to societal norms. Societal norms created by the patriarchal past of our world, norms that have no purpose or place in our new and advanced society. Even though these norms should not exist, they do, and it is up to the people who are oppressed to change them.
Women who feel oppressed by a man should speak up, before their confidence and liveliness is overshadowed by the fear of that man, or the fear of how the community will respond.
Too many men like Harvey Weinstein are in a place of power so great that they can treat women like he did. As the article states, they use the influence over economic status and power to keep these women silent. Men like this can be stopped, though, as shown by the women who called Harvey Weinstein to justice.
Do not be afraid to speak up.
Unfortunately, this will blow over too. It’s in men’s genes and we are still not that far removed from our cave man days; just a blink of an eye on a geological timescale. Back then, those who were the tribal leaders with resources and power always took what they wanted. The only way we can change this to have stronger penalties that strip them of their resources and power in addition to jail time for those who are convicted of assaults. But even then, it’s always about he said, she said and upsetting someone in power along with our mostly ingrained blind allegiance to our tribal leaders and not to the person who was wronged.
Women need to start outing these men. I suggest leaving blank pink post its on their office chair, door, desk or windshield. No words are needed. Enough flags appearing steadily, will help shut them down and serve notice to bosses that the abuse is not just "horsing around."
Maybe it's my ongoing general despondency, but the fact that we just elected as president a man known to be a serial harasser and sexual abuser curbs my boundless optimism that things will get better.
If your law allowed for a sitting president to be indicted for such things as sexual harassment, the seventeen women who have accused Mr. Trump of having abused his power over them in such a manner would surely make the most impressive contribution to the effort to eternally bury such behaviour from the workplace and perhaps elsewhere.
And as an additional benefit, that all-but-useless orange-faced, empty-headed, brutalizing and unapologetic pusstual that is your 45th president might actually find himself useful and his presidency justified.
1
I doubt it. Considering what we overheard him say on a bus, Mr. Trump was still elected president!
A: No
Q: "Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?"
1
I have to think there are men out there looking back, pausing, in some degree of sorrow or regret, for their actions, say in college or as a boss, perhaps fathers now, grandfathers...
#MeToo
lacks context and does not stand alone.
#I Did,I’m Sorry
would really move us forward.
2
For reform to occur, certain key distinctions must be understood. There's a difference between consensual and nonconsensual sex. And not all sexual misconduct constitutes sexual harassment.
This editorial refers to "a long string of allegations of sexual misconduct" by Bill Clinton. A total of three women women claimed that Clinton forced his sexual attentions on them. The one who accused him of rape, Juanita Broaddrick, was closely associated with his most vicious political enemies in Arkansas. Paula Jones was urged to pursue her lawsuit against Clinton by a group of right-wing attorneys that included Ann Coulter. Kathleen Willey lied so often, including under oath, that Ken Starr decided he couldn't use her as a witness.
The rest of the "allegations of misconduct" were made by Republicans. They were charges that Clinton cheated on his wife with willing sex partners. These included Monica Lewinsky. At the time, she was an unpaid White House intern living in her mother's luxury apartment in the Watergate. She admitted that she flashed Clinton her thong panties because her intention was to have an affair with him.
Sex is not something evil that men do to women. Women are adults capable of moral agency who can consent to sexual relationships, including ones that constitute adulterous "misconduct."
Lewinsky pursued a relationship with another woman's husband, and the consequences for her weren't good. That doesn't mean Bill Clinton was Harvey Weinstein or Donald Trump.
7
Why should it? Think Bill Clinton. When Female politicians declined to help Paula Jones, they showed themselves to be a fraud. In the end, it is all about politics.
2
"Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?" Are you kidding! Of course not! Men can't control themselves. Let me state that another way; Men (and boys) will not control themselves. Each new generation that comes along has to learn the difference between right and wrong. That means millions of men each year will test the limits of how far they can go in dealing with women. They will not learn the lessons of Harvey Weinstein or Anthony Weiner or anyone else. Men will just act like jerks. They will be sexually aggressive, repugnant, repulsive, impulsive and derisive and demeaning of women. Men in positions of power will exert that dominance over women. They will take advantage of every scenario possible to exploit them and coerce them into sexual situations.
Nothing will change until men get the message that women are not sexual objects. At the current rate of learning the end of sexual harassment is not in sight. Across the globe women are exploited. In too many parts of the world abuse of women is the norm not the exception. How many men my age today (I'm 70) remember being told in high school and college that "When a woman says 'no' she really means 'yes'. I doubt that message has ever really changed. Women too need better education and we need better laws and far better enforcement of laws to protect women. Of course we need education and it must start early. Culturally and socially that may take another generation or two before real change is seen.
1
This is a curious piece. Once upon a time I was given rather rigid set of rules to live by (never hit a girl, ladies first, open the door for ladies, remove your hat when women were present, etc.). I am a creature of the 1950s and 1960s. Girls were never to be forced, but were certainly the subject of insistent persuasion as I progressed through adolescence and through a college and law school stay of 6 years at an old Ivy. Then the world changed. I have had women state, when I opened a door, that they would forgive me because of my age but I should try to understand the sexism of my reprehensible act in suggesting that women needed assistance in opening a door. It would be very useful if pieces like this could state clearly whether the harassment complained of is just the weird creepy world of Harvey Weinstein and Bill Clinton, or whether it also includes one or more elements of the hostile environment of 1) door opening for women , 2) gender specific social clubs, 3) only telling dirty jokes when women are not present (I had that complain once when managing a rather large professional services organization); 4) giving dolls to daughters and trucks to sons (I had no sons so it is a pure hypothetical but I do admit to supporting a rather large doll collection for each of my 3 beloved children), etc Reforming men in re Weinstein-type sexual harassment should not be conflated with other objections developed in modern gender studies curricula. Horses for courses.
1
I’m not sure where the behavioral line is drawn, short of sexual abuse of coarse. I’ll never forget the political commentator, I can’t remember his name, who said “I hassled my wife until she married me.” The pursuit of sex, and or love, is a powerful one. In my younger days I rarely believe “no”when I heard it. It sounded to me more like “ I want to say yes, but society tells me no and I’m afraid that I’ll make a mistake”. I never considered it a mistake.
But most of this discussion is about powerful men who use their position for sexual favors. These men have no respect for themselves. Otherwise they couldn’t look them selves in the mirror.
But what about the woman who use their beauty, or sexuality, to get what they want? Is this excepted behavior? Is it not fair to the women do not have their attractiveness? Is it not fair to the men they seduce? How about the men they don’t seduce? This is a very difficult area of behavior to mitigate. I have women friends who married men mostly because of the money they have. Is that OK?
I shrug it off as part of life. Who’s to say?
3
In response to the question posed "Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?" I'll offer my answer...No!.
My reason is that I don't believe that power and its expression, the reason for these actions, will be surrendered by the holders of it willingly. Note that I have intend a more general inclusion not only to male sexual harassment currently considered but including all powerful persons and groups.
It seems counter to human nature to relinquish something that one owns regardless of the right or wrong exercise of that ownership on whoever lacks it.
Sexual harassment is an example of one sex exercising what they believe is their inherent power and their due. Harassers demonstrate on their targets actions, women, that they are more powerful and prove it by those actions. I believe that this power will be voluntarily surrendered by whoever uses it routinely in their daily interactions with others.
This situation is much more common however. Daily, we can see how powerful interests and people utilize their power to change, remove, and prevent activities and conventions that are not for their benefit. Will these individuals and organizations voluntarily give up the power and stop using it? The answer is a resounding No! Not only will the powerful retain it but will guard and fight to keep and use it.
Only if individuals actively fighting this invalid, wrong use of power by the current possessors can it be destroyed.
It has seemed to me for years that in addition to the problems being appropriately discussed here is that women need to do a better job helping other women. Any woman higher on the corporate ladder needs to bring other women along and give them power. Becoming one of the boys is not a perk, it is a responsibility to not just become one of the boys... and that is not blaming the victim, it's blaming women that have not taken advantage of their power and position to force change.
It's actually (some) women who need reforming, not (some) men.
If a man makes unwanted advances, she should say no. If he continues, he should be reported to his superior. If there is no superior, then she should threaten to quit and/or sue him for harassment. If she has any value to the company besides as a potential sex partner, those threats will be taken seriously.
Instead what we have is (some) women acting like whining little damsels in distress. They consent to sexual advances, reap the supposed career benefits/security of such, and then accept large payments later on to keep quiet about it, which amounts to a bait and switch kind of blackmail that is a step below prostitution.
Do (some) women really think they're going to garner respect with this kind of behavior?
5
It's not that simple. Proving harassment, even blatant harassment that goes on in front others, is hard. Second, women don't usually harass men, it's the other way around and men are usually the ones in power, not the women. And why is it that men complain but women whine? And why do you think that women consent? Do you think that we want to be propositioned, harassed, fondled, or work in places where this goes on as a matter of routine? Maybe, just maybe men need to grow up and stop looking at every woman as a potential sex partner. You earn no respect from women when you treat them like receptacles.
5
So long as (some) women whine (or complain) nothing will change.
You're not going to change (some) men's attitudes by complaining (or whining) that they have to change.
(Some) Women have to learn to take care of themselves by setting boundaries and asserting themselves in real time, not by taking hush money years after the fact of their alleged victimization in sexual harassment, or crying "me too" decades later.
So long as (some) grown women act like teary-eyed helpless girls, nothing will change.
1
And what to tell a man when he does not emulate the actions of those who are sexually harassers nor those who stay silent at the sight of harassment yet still reads articles and op-eds calling for his "reform"?
It is exhausting and demoralizing and depressing to constantly be lumped into a sub-group of men you do not agree with nor whose actions you condone, all while having your attempted contributions to business, art, and discourse be disregarded as insufficiently belonging to a group whose voices have been historically marginalized.
Be careful. Tell all men enough times that they must reform their ways as inevitable sexual harassers and bigots and misogynists and you may wind up giving some men the expectation that this is how they should have been behaving their entire lives.
The sexual harassment of adult women by their male mentors and bosses is only the tip of a massive iceberg that continues to remain almost totally under water. That is the iceberg of incest and familial sexual abuse that devastates and victimizes so many women. This is a silent epidemic that needs to be addressed. The recovered memory movement was shut down in the 1990’s by powerful male perpetrators who leveraged all kinds of specious legal maneuvers to block cases brought by courageous victims.
1
If I could choose a superpower, it would be the ability to saddle predators with an almost-overdose of empathy. That said...
Desiring it is lovely, but expecting people in power not to take full advantage of that power seems to show a lack of basic understanding of that side of human beings. Mr. Weinstein's current prominence in the news will make the powerful who engage in similar behavior less bold... for a while.
As a male, and as a Bernie Sanders liberal, I firmly believe that everyone has the right to be free from harassment and unwelcome touching of any kind. Yet I often hear the suggestion that to deal effectively with the problem of sexual harassment, there must be more women in positions of power. If that is the goal, shouldn't those who advocate it call for the repeal of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which commands nondiscrimination based on gender in employment decisions? That way, they could openly and honestly discriminate against men in hiring, e.g., put "no men need apply" in their job listings, so that men don't waste their time applying for such jobs. Yet they don't, and I think it is because they want Title VII in place to protect members of the gender and racial groups they favor but to be able to toss it aside behind closed doors when it comes to the gender and racial groups they don't favor.
I repeat: everyone should be free of physical harassment of any kind. But when the hard left assumes that since its goals are pure it is entitled to achieve them by any means necessary rather than being honest about its means as well as its ends, the anger against "liberal elites" that helped put Trump in the White House is not a complete mystery to me.
2
n Warrenton, Virignia, a DC suburb, a prominent lawyer was recently jailed and disbarred after groping two female clients. The only evidence presented was their accounts. That's the difference between protecting citizens and the lucre-centric justice abattoir run by Cyrus Vance (and his many female senior attorneys).
1
The difference between how the left and right have handled this is noticeable:
Weinstein will never work in Hollywood again. O'Reilly is still at the top of the book charts selling his pseudo-history to his fans and Trump is destroying our democracy on a daily basis.
1
Do men become sexual predators overnight? Is it hereditary or learned behavior? Does it run in families? Seems like it did in my family. As a very young kid I was sexually abused by a grandfather, uncle, then a brother. Does this abuse only take place in the home? Do they just branch out to the workplace? I’ve read the sexual predator in the workplace accusations and I believe them. I also believe that the families of these deviants may be victims as well. Many people will remain silent to protect the innocent. Speak out, shine a light if you can.
1
Congress, this Congress controlled by and composed of the Caucasian Republican Men's Club, now morphed into the 1950's-era misogynist Trump Men's Club, doing anything to significantly address this national sexual harassment/assault problem? The expression "when pigs fly" readily comes to mind! (With pun,this time, decidedly intended.) Isn't this the party that for years has firmly resisted basic legislation seeking to address unequal pay for women?
Have Ivanka, Melania, Tiffany, and the rest of the cosseted Trump Women ever personally experienced the wounds of male degradation? Or uttered one solitary word of public apology for, or condemnation of, their patriarch's admitted and gross female predation? Again, "when pigs fly", and particularly their own home-based hog.
This might seem counterintuitive but legalizing prostitution could be an important part of the solution. Too many men are governed by their hormones and need an outlet.
Men who harass women are a problem. So are men who deny that it happens, men who blame the women for being there in the first place, men who claim that they are exaggerating or making it up, men who think the real problem is with false accusations made for money, men who dismiss historical accusations as irrelevant, and yes, the many. many men who think that the most significant thing about the article above is not the 25% of women who get harassed at work but the article title's supposed slur on their gender.
I am pretty sure that no individual man will suffer anything more than a small annoyance as a result of the article's title. I am absolutely sure that women are suffering all the time as a result of what the article is about. Maybe we could concentrate on the actual issues and not the tender feelings of its readers?
37
THANK YOU. So many men's responses to this piece-their defensiveness and hostility--are so disheartening.
2
“Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?” To answer the question, the Times should look at itself in a mirror. Consider this article, the cover story from the Sunday Times style magazine from a bit over a year ago:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/t-magazine/natalie-portman-jonathan-s...
The article discusses Natalie Portman, an attractive woman, in her role as a director. The article is copiously illustrated, and in all of the photos Ms. Portman is not wearing any pants, just a bikini bottom. The full-page cover illustration is carefully cropped to reveal a hint of Ms. Portman’s bare thigh, and some of the photos are frankly posed provocatively.
This is gratuitous sexualization of a woman, the article was about Ms. Portman as a director, not an actress. Ms. Portman acquiesced to the poses, and the Times knew what it was doing when it prominently printed them, and, as I recall, marketed them in its advertising.
Sexuality is, obviously, an important aspect of the human condition. There are many places when it is appropriate, but, crucially, many places, very much including the workplace, when sexual behavior should be avoided, by men and by women.
Sexual predators are usually, but not exclusively, men. But inappropriate sexualization is practiced by both genders. It is damaging, often seriously so, when it occurs in the workplace. All of us need to behave maturely and appropriately.
So should the Times.
14
I seriously doubt anything much will change anytime soon.
I am 60 years old. In my lifetime, there have been various moments that were considered turning points which later either fizzled out or became triggers of backlash against women. (Remember the book Backlash by Susan Faludi? If you never heard of it, check it out and learn about feminist history.)
In my lifetime, I would say that overall, there has been a 10% improvement for women.
We are now allowed to work in most places but of course to a limited degree. We have a few more representatives in government and businesses.
We are allowed to pay for our own expenses.
We are allowed to go most places by ourselves but of course we are still vulnerable to attack anywhere we go.
We are allowed to wear any clothes we want but of course what we wear will still be used against us if and when we are attacked.
We are allowed to have sex without marriage but of course if we get pregnant there are limits on when and where we can get abortion even though it's allegedly legal.
And of course if we have the child, we can pay for the costs on our own, which is now considered a privilege and a freedom.
I may have missed some major improvements but from my perspective, it's still pretty far from where we need to be. As a woman, I have been disappointed over and over so forgive me for not getting too excited by the current big moment.
9
Does it really not occur to anyone here that the only men who will be "reformed" by this are the ones who are sensitive to women's experiences, and therefore the ones who aren't the problem? The crying of the mob for collective culpability just ensures that the only men left in the pool are the ones who don't care that you think they're harassing you.
10
There will be no behavioral change among men like Harvey Weinstein until women develop the courage to speak up immediately rather than waiting decades after the statue of limitations has expired. However, most men aren't Harvey Weinsteins. They can help by creating environments that encourage women to report abusive behavior. Men also have something to gain by ridding the workplace of Harvey Weinsteins. They will no longer be passed over for promotion by women who willing to submit to sexual abuse in exchange for favorable treatment.
4
I've been reformed. I've never had anything in mind but equal loving companionship with women, but because I care about how women feel and what they think, I've been listening and I want the women of the NYT to know that I get it. I understand that women do not want male attention. They do not want me to express myself if I'm attracted to them. If they're attracted to me, I'll wait for them to say so without giving any indication that I like them, and if they don't say anything, well, then I guess it wasn't meant to be. And if they do make a move, I'll be sure to pretend to be uninterested until they present me with signed consent.
Of course, some men out there, who have not been listening or reading the NYT, will continue to push the boundaries. Sometimes they will be seen as monsters - but if that bothered them, they would have read this editorial and listened. Other times, they will spark sexual energy where none appeared before, enjoy fulfilling relationships, and reminisce in decades to come with their loving wives about the rules they broke, the cheeky little passes they made at each other that crossed the space between bodies and revealed they were interested.
Obviously it's a shame that I will not have the fulfilment of loving and being loved, but it is worth it to fight abuses. I will be lonely but at least I will not be thought of as a monster. Until loneliness turns me into a monster. But by that time we'll have another NYT editorial to help.
5
If you "will be lonely" not being able to pursue women in the workplace, perhaps you might try another venue. Say one that isn't intended for work. Perhaps your problem is that the workplace is the only place you get noticed, and that would be your problem, not women's.
1
Hiw about this? If you are attracted to a woman, try asking her out for lunch. Casually. Get to know her. Her personality, her past, her hopes and dreams. Do all this without leering at her crotch or breasts, and you will find yourself with a beautiful, intellugent, and desireable lady. A man that I really liked until he said something about how his genitalia got hard everytime he thought of me, is a man in which I no longer have any interest. He just couldn't respect me enough to speak like a gentleman. He has a masters from Georgia Tech, had a great job as an executive but.....
3
Is there such a thing as innocent flirting by women, and does this contribute to aggressive behavior by men, in other words does it take two to tango? How much does dressing seductively, contribute to sexual abuse ? Lastly, is there any truth in the belief that male genes are different from women & gives men the instinct to hunt, which contributes to their sexual aggression ?
If there is any credence to the above questions, then the only way to stop sexual activity in the work place is to have strict laws & punishment for those that commit these acts, which result in prison terms.
1
Flirting -- or what you might perceive as flirting and I consider a friendly smile -- does not give you license to touch me or make rude, offensive remarks.
If my clothing lights your sexual fires, then it's your responsibility to extinguish them. I don't dress with you in mind -- try to get that through your head.
Stop blaming us for your failings.
6
The argument here is that men are animals, and therefore not responsible for their actions. OK, let's say for the sake of the moment that this be true.
Either men therefore belong in cages when their aggression threatens the community, AND/OR men have no more natural rights than any other animal.
We presume that you agree with at least one of these statements, given your position?
1
No crime of any existing law, no evidence of a single crime much less the hundreds of supposed crimes. A hundred or so accusers and no evidence for a single crime is suspicious. And accused of what nothing more than a quid quo pro that the accusers now regret. Leave destroying men to family courts.
1
If Weisnstin's fall reforms men when the fall of many throughout history has not reformed, we may only hope for improvement. What if women did not dress in any way to attract male attention, since most men give attention, by nature, to a woman's just about anything. What this would do to the fashion and clothing industries, Wal-Mart stores, Victoria's Secret products, Sports Illustrated photo shoots . . . I remember when, years ago in late grade school, a cousin showed me a magazine with retouched nude women. Today, children have 24/7 access to pornography, sex is everywhere, and to tell little boys "do not look" is like telling them never taste an alcoholic beverage or try smoking. Many are told, but many will not heed advice.
Is aggressive male behavior, more pronounced in some men than in others, part of the person's genetic, psychological "nature"? Should most every workplace have sexual conduct police? Who will police the police? The great ado over sexual harassment is warranted, but one mogul's fall will not result in a New American Revolution. Vigilance, taking the risk to say "no" when one's job may be at stake are positive measures. But what of women who do not react negatively to leers, whistles, hugs, even having sexual relations with unreformed men? More witch hunts? Can sex-in-advertising. in entertainment. in fiction, in art be eliminated? In both positive and ugly ways, will the Battle of the Sexes be with us to the last couple left on earth?
Changing the culture to help this is more than just changing the workplace culture- it starts far earlier than when people go into the workplace and it does relate to power and money but also an absence of values in our society and communities. Women continue to be objectified in our culture- both due to choices made by societal forces (media, advertising, the music industry...) and frankly, many women themselves (plenty of female performers or cultural figures who deliberately use their bodies as a proxy for their power (think Beyonce, Rihanna, Miley Cyrus). It is very hard for young girls and later women, to assert true positions of power and equality based on their intelligence and real skills when in mass culture, they are still often portrayed as objects in context of a man's world. Ads showing sexy, half naked women are not designed to attract women, but rather to play to the desires of men and a women's interest in being desired by a man. Through her body.
When my daughter sees female performers thrusting their groins on tv, or sits in a taxi and sees ads where women lay naked in bed looking longingly at men, she is being taught to undervalue who she is and potentially, to succumb to sexual harassment in the future. Men seeing these things are trained to think women are objects and less capable than men. We have a lot of work to do and it starts with a review of our society, not just the movie industry or workplace. That's already much too late for real change.
3
And alongside this piece in The Times are ads picturing one of those open-mouthed, make-up slathered, impossible-haired female models loaded with jewelry I'm supposed to want terribly, terribly much to own right now.
Why are little kids in all the schools with uniform requirements putting the boys in trousers and the girls in skirts? Why are teachers lining up their kindergarten charges by the rule "girls first?" Why are girls babies wearing pink and the boys blue?
We've come no distance at all in the years we've been in the fight for equality. Not an inch.
I am way less optimistic that the current rash of outing of sexual abuse will end the practice. This happens cyclically. We see bad acts, we agree to reform and then we backslide. You think racism has been eradicated? Religious hatred? Homophobia? Sexual assault? Please. Be real. We'd need a culture change that is broader and wider than that described here. And, it would need to include powerful men who stand up and speak out. How many of those have you seen of late?
3
I doubt the current situation will change because of recent events and more women speaking out. This is about power and manipulation in the workplace and I think the situation is getting worse instead of better. It will take decades to change this culture of behavior.
When I entered the workforce in the early 1970's I took a job in an office setting and witnessed sexual abuse in to a small extent. The offender was my boss and although shamefully I said nothing during the event, I did approach the offender after the fact, at lunch the same day. I asked him how he could ever be comfortable becoming intimate or having sex with a woman who was not attracted to him but was just trying to keep her job. I told him that was not just humiliating for her, but equally as humiliating for him since that approach, even if successful had to impact his own self esteem. He blew the conversation off and I expected to be fired as we were not friends and he was my boss so could remove me just as quickly as he could the young woman. I wasn't fired. Neither was the young woman and although I stayed with the firm for the next 5 years I never witnessed this man behave in this way again. During this time I did see other sexual encounters take place but all were consensual and one or two resulted in marriage. Men and women like sex but it has to be a two way street. I just don't get wanting to be with anyone not attracted to me. How can that be satisfying? I guess I'm old.
3
Dream on.
A better editorial would be one that shows how many women sit on the Editorial Board, what their positions are, and who is paid more at the NYTimes. A better result would be to self-examine openly. Look at your home page. How many stories are about women and how many about men? How many pictures of women appear daily compared to those of men, and what kind of pictures are they? Why are there two women columnists in a long list of op-ed writers?
Sexual harassment is part of our culture precisely because we diminish women in every sphere of life, including the home. Sexual harassment, rape, misogyny is embedded in our culture and has a history going back at least a couple of thousand years. Yes, we need changes in the laws, the rules of the workplace. But in the end, men always support each other, and women fearful of retribution side with the men, so laws and rules can always be circumvented. Our society needs a serious wake up call, and the purveyors of news and entertainment, who place themselves in view daily, who create cultural norms with subtle biases, could, should take the lead.
2
The last sentence in my comment should read: Most women do not have that luxury.
If you wonder why women don't come forward, read the comments on any story where they do come forward.
If they come forward right after the fact, they are "lying," "want money," and "wanted sex but then changed their mind."
If they wait, trying to protect their financial stability and avoid lawsuits from the abuser for something that's very hard to prove (and if they just want to move on and not have some creepy guy dominating the next couple of years of their lives), then they are blamed and held responsible for anything the guy does to anyone else.
All of that victim-blaming distracts people from having to look hard at the men who are actually doing the abusing. Which is precisely the point.
3
Crime gets the green light when District Attorneys (like Cyrus Vance and presumably many others) repeatedly refuse to prosecute.
Not so incidentally, the "allegations" against Bill Clinton resulted in a 850.000 payment to Paula Jones.
2
I believe that it was Don Jr. who said if Ivanka were sexually harassed at work, she would simply get another job. Of course this remark, whether from the father or son, is disturbing for several reasons. First, there's no outrage r anger she would be treated in that way. Second, Ivanka has her own company and so has never been subjected to being supervised by a male who might engage in sexual harrassment. Third, with her resources and privileged background, Banks would have the luxury of just quitting and not have to worry about paying the rent or buying groceries. Most women do have that luxury.
2
Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?
There are at least two pervasive books that make that almost impossible. These persuasive books have been instrumental in the vilification and subjugation of women for centuries. Not only can the Bible and Quran be used to dehumanize women they are also useful to justify any number of atrocities and mistreatment of others. All in the name of God.
Religion, while intended to show us the light, has been used for the dark ends of man. And literally men. Women are evil. Religions teach women are the source of temptation. Women are unclean. Women are part of man. Women are the property of man. Women shall remain silent in the presence of men. Women shall not teach men. These are God's words.
As long as there are deeply conservative interpretations of religious believes and books, women will remain a target. It isn't simply historic or medieval. It is here and now in many parts of the world where religious conservative movements have women are under fire.
3
The word "finally" is a loaded term. Is the Weinstein episode an important milestone? Let's be hopeful. Hope can give us all a much needed boost. That in combination with the experience of slaying a nasty dragon provides encouragement in these trying times.
The obvious issue is - where does sexual harassment come from? Is this an innate attribute of mostly males?
As the editorial points out this is less about sex and more about the abuse of power. The frequent embellishments used to excuse this behavior (romance, macho personality, etc.) are just that - a cover for trampling on the rights of another - man, woman, or (in the case of pedophiles) even children.
Much insight can be garnered by a study of Engels' Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State. The foundation of patriarchy is inherited wealth - i.e. private property. The family is the social vehicle through which that's transmitted. And the State is the "body of armed men" defending the property "rights" of those who own against those who don't.
Want a quick lesson in the forms this took in 19th/20th Century England? Binge watch Downton Abbey.
Short of abolishing private ownership of the "means of production" as the power element underpinning abusive relationships - can you eliminate "sexual" harassment? That's like asking if you can achieve political equality in the absence of economic equality. The short answer is no.
The better answer is keep fighting the good fight. It's not over. Not by far.
2
The editorial did the right thing in including the name of the most powerful man in the world in list of sexual predators: Donald Trump.
Before he was elected President, a few women had come forward with sexual misconduct complaints against him. For every woman who showed the courage to come forward, there could be a dozen who decided to grin and bear in silence because they were afraid that the fate that befell Anita Hill could befall them, too.
But what happened to those who complained? We heard nothing of them after Mr. Trump was elected President. Were they hushed up? If so, why, and who was behind the hushing up? Was hush money involved? The public has the right to get answers to these questions.
Good thoughts and reflections on a serious problem.Like so many cultural issues the problem is complex. Man vs. Woman is an easy narrative to follow and statistics will support it . Many woman have been seriously harassed and assaulted in the work place, no doubt. But what exactly does sexual " harrasment" mean, as it is used in common parlance? is it m asking someone out ( now called " hitting on ")? Is it asking twice? Involuntary touching isn't harasment, it is assault:unless it is of a sexual nature :then it is harrasment? Language matters and before we pillory or excuse someone for sexual harassment the words should match the actions and the lines should be clear. Weinstein is not a harrasser, he is a sexual predator : His weapon of force was money and connections . Bush senior is apparently and harasser in a wheel chair. The men are not the same and their actions are not equvilent, although both are unacceptable. Let's get beyond " all men do it " and defining all interactions that have potential sexual implications as harassment. It devalues everyone and the importance of change.
1
A reason to use pith in an answer - no, it won't change behavior.
1
The headline should read something like " Will H.W's fall finally reform those men who have problems".
I have encountered jerks but I have and still do encounter decent men in my workplace and feel it is kind of unfair to these men who I consider good colleagues. They also clearly notice bad male behavior when they see or hear it and, here I would like to see more courage to point it out. The reason this happens rarely, might be for the same reason that many women do not speak out, e.g. they don't want bo be disadvantaged at work, not cause problems ....
On another note, bullying is also harassment and the worst offender I have seen here was a woman, bullying .... not men but other women.
2
This editorial was written with rose colored glasses obstructing its lens. Recent events will only be another drop in the bucket of incremental change because the backlash from women's march towards equality has become increasingly powerful, even outpacing equality's gains. Donald Trump, an admitted sexual predator (among other equally problematic labels), was elected as our 45th president. Enough white women voted for him to confirm this backlash's strength.
The republican party is NOT a friend to women. They sold women out to capture the loyalty of the religious right which seeks to undo all the advances women have made (Oath Keepers, Quiverful, etc.) Some of us knew that anti-abortion wasn't the end goal. It was contraception! They are attacking women on all fronts. There's been a revival of a 30 yr. old book, "The Handmaid's Tail," because life is now imitating art for real!!!
Sexual harassment isn't going to even begin to go away because rape isn't going away. Both are the result of society's unspoken rule that men are entitled to pretty much do what they wish to women. They are entitled to control women. They are entitled to deny women economic, political and social equality. Nothing will change significantly unless & until men CHOOSE to examine this inequality and agree to give up their power in the world. Make room for relatively equal numbers of women in all iindustries & government. We all KNOW that change is incremental for our deepest, if unspoken, beliefs!
1
"Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?"
What a misandrist headline and overwrought editorial. Just because a few men are at fault, and some even monsters, is no reason to disparage the entire gender, half the population.
Editorials such as this are counterproductive, and not likely to contribute to the solution of what is a very serious problem.
2
How deep and widespread is this problem?
Is the evil inside some men, most men, all men?
How strong is this desire among men to dominate women?
Does Islam have it right that women need to be protected at all times and in all ways in order to keep them safe from the innate viciousness of men?
From the numerous reports flooding in, it seems that women and girls live in a very unfair and dangerous world, a world created and maintained by men, lots and lots of men, not just a small percentage of the total population.
Or are there, out there somewhere and everywhere in large numbers, good guys who respect women and want them to succeed and live happy lives? I honestly don't know. Maybe psychologists or sociologists know. If so, we need to know what they know: How big is this problem? Does our Homeland Security need to establish and broadcast a color-coded threat advisory scale for just this purpose?
As long as men who harass women are allowed to get away with it and those with the means or the support of their bosses can buy silence, sexual violators will go unpunished. Business and men in general needs to stop supporting abusers and paying off victims. This situation will only change when men who enable sexual predators (Like Harvey Weinstein) have to face the consequences of their actions. Society as a whole needs to change but change will only happen if men change. Sadly, I'm not sure there will be change in my lifetime.
1
“The lawmakers, every one of them male,” in a nutshell, if you exchange the word “lawmakers” with “boss” or “supervisors,” is the source of the problem and it is unlikely to change soon. Any male-dominated culture, whether it be Hollywood, Washington DC , pro sports or the Catholic Church always abuses its power because the checks and balances women provide are absent. And that male domination is not going to go away any time soon. The Weinstein story is going to fade soon as the public gets distracted by a tweet or some other nonsence, but in government, in Hollywood, in fast-food restaurants, women in power will continue to be in the minority, so they will continue to be harassed by powerful men who are enabled by a system of support-whether it’s their secretaries or a culture that values women culturally and monetarily less.
Sexual repression, often fueled by fundamentalist world views, is deeply integrated into our culture. Advertising thrives on beautiful young female bodies. Entertainment is a toxic adolescent mix of leering and prudishness. We embrace the mythology that normal men have strong sexual drives and proper women do not. We are taught to be ashamed of our naked bodies and to be ashamed at being aroused by sexual photos and writing; to hide our natural interest. Sexual abuse thrives in this miasma of ignorance. This behavior will not disappear until society teaches that sexuality is healthy and appropriate.
1
Yet another excuse set forth as a reason for harassment of women. There is no excuse.
1
There is no excuse, nor was I trying to provide one. Commentary is not advocacy.
1
Where is the discussion on how to raise boys so that this will not happen in the first place? The onus continues to be on females. Change the conversation.
3
Agree. As long as boys observe
Their fathers and grandfathers demonstrating inappropriate behavior towards women as acceptable, it will continue generation after generation.
1
I support going after sexual harrassers where the evidence is clear. But this is not always the case.
This article unintentionally points to a major problem, by choosing to include "allegations of sexual misconduct, and in one case, rape" against Bill Clinton that are actually unsupported, giving them the weight of well-established facts by also mentioning Lewinsky. Likewise, I continue to see people dropping the Louie CK allegations as if they are true, even though they are unsupported, based on hearsay, and the sole "source" has even recanted. Yet I still publications referencing the "allegations".
It becomes too easy to destroy people. It becomes too easy to raise suspicions, to cast people in a negative light. We can agree that when this happens, the targets will often be black men. But even beyond that, do we really want a culture where gossip has this much power?
1
How can we expect change when our (and other) societies continues to be based on religions that are controlled by men and centered on an all-powerful male creator?
2
Maybe this is just me, but I've seen progress from the 60s to the present. Back then, I remember crude jokes & inappropriate touching as being mainstream. These were literally the older men (50s & older) targeted at younger women. To object was to be a prude, straight-laced, or whatever you want to call it. It really seemed socially acceptable and expected behavior - as it was just how these men interacted with women. I say 'these men' as not all men behaved this way. I have to add that my own parents & all of their generation that I knew, accepted this behavior as - well that's what men do. A decade ago, at the department at the university where I worked, it was dominated by older men - some of those men routinely hugged young female students. Coffee with these men, consisted of rating their female colleagues attractiveness & commenting on female students (usually how busty they were). These men have since retired and the department is now about half female. All that inappropriate hugging & talk is completely gone.
1
I have been reading all of the NYTimes Op-Eds about Sexual Harassment and Harvey Weinstein et al since the stories broke. The outrage is part and parcel. The backlash is SO predictable. That's why, like most women and having to bear witness to sexism for an entire lifetime, I might be a bit more skeptical about this being the event that spurs some sort of windfall of change. We've seen, time and time again, that mainstream attention to these events will eventually run its course. Then, sadly, we will be back where we have always been – our (nearly intractable) Patriarchal society that divides itself squarely on politically charged issues, but finds itself comfortably in cahoots when it comes to matters of gender and racial parity and equality. That is to say, conservatives find no reason to challenge the status quo and in fact want regression, coming up with tired phrases like "not all men" and "all lives matter". And Liberals (the kind that Marx calls the Bourgeoisie) simply don't practice what they preach. All we have to do is look at the statistics for proof of this. If we are not much better off (and in some areas we are worse) than we were in 1997, 1987, 1977 or 1967, we need to be able to look at this with grave seriousness and squarely identify those forces which work against a true paradigm shift.
22
Exactly. Nothing's going to change for the better anyway. I've given up hope and am beginning to think women should arm themselves. At the very least, keep pepper spray in your hand all the time, whether at work or shopping or in some cases, at home.
1
True!
1
Well as a man comfortably "Bourgoisie" I will correct you. I practiced what I preached for my entire working career. As a young man I was exposed to the horrors of powerful teachers abusing young women in their charge and my contact with these victims shaped my understanding of how to behave at school and work.
Attitudes need to change for both men and women in the workplace. While men do most of the harassing it's not unheard of for women to harass or men to be harassed. As long as human resources departments exist to protect companies against employees, employees will always lose when it comes to harassment or any other workplace issue. If we continue to allow men and women to be paid at different rates for the same type of work the disrespectful attitudes towards women will continue. When we tell young children to behave in ways befitting their gender we are undermining the adults they will become. "Boys will be boys" or "Girls will do that" should not be an excuse to allow an offensive behavior to continue but oftentimes it is. When co-workers assume that a woman slept her way to her position or that she is doing so with a mentor it hurts the woman, the mentor, and discourages both.
In today's economy men and women have to work side by side. It would be nice if, when we are working side by side, we felt respected for our contributions to the workplace. But that would require changes at the top and if that doesn't happen and things continue the way they are we'll continue to see harassment, employees fired for reporting it, lawsuits about it, and plenty of anger.
2
I would wonder if this is a cultural issue where change can be contemplated or is it more a matter of how aggressive alpha males are hardwired by virtue of millions of years of evolution? Such behavior would seem, at least to me, more a matter of exerting power and dominance than merely achieving sexual satisfaction. Having extensively traveled abroad, it's my impression that this alpha male behavior is actually more pervasive outside the US. This brings up the issue of if the behavior is hardwired, how can it be changed? Alpha males tend to be risk takers so societal condemnation or legal consequences would be of questionable effect. In a recent movie I saw, Fifty Shades of Grey, the protagonist (an aggressive alpha male) had women sign legally binding agreements which would seem to defeat subsequent claims of the women involved other than for breach of contract I suppose (I'm not a lawyer).
1
There is no acceptable "reason" for male harassment of women, period. One can reason about the reason(s) for men's behavior all they want. Let's remember that a "reason" does not excuse harassment behavior or promoting men over better or equally capable women as is prevalent in every business.
3
Yes all men are guilty until proven guilty. Great article.
2
The idea that you look to "events of the past three weeks" to discern such a thing as a change in human nature is social scale solipsism. I would give odds that the people who write these op-eds never see a real workplace, all they see is the executive areas of offices. This is why they constantly run full tilt with blinders on re Trump, they are like the people in Plato's analogy of the cave who believe what little they can sense is all that exists. If on the other hand you actually work with for instance men who drive pickup trucks to work because they need to carry tools, you'd not make lame pronouncements that presume that examples using some few executives speak for the American workplace. They do not.
3
I represent employees in civil and human rights cases. HR has a financial incentive to protect the employer, including powerful men who harass women, because those men are high earners. Hence HR is virtually useless in enforcing the laws-more typically, HR assists in retaliation against accusers.
The workplace will not change until confidentiality and non-disparagement clauses are declared unenforceable as a matter of public policy. So long as employers believe that victims can be silenced, they will silence those victims. Employees agree to such provisions because they wish to avoid the shame and expense of a public trial, and need the money that is offered to support their families, particularly when they have been fired or left jobs due to their employers’ discriminatory. If employers know that, money or no money, they cannot shut people up, they will be more focused on cleaning up the workplace.
To those who have signed such agreements: do not let your employer shut you up. You may not be able to speak about your own experience, but you can become an activist who speaks to the issues and protects other women. Ronan Farrow could not protect his younger sister, whose story I believe, but has helped to put Harvey Weinstein out of commission. There are many ways to fight back -one way is to ensure that gag orders become a historical artifact.
Voices should be heard, not silenced. If you can’t speak for yourself, speak for the others. In unity there is power.
3
The problem starts way before men and women begin their careers. Look at how unbalanced school dress codes are for boys and girls! We start training schoolkids that boys can't be expected to control themselves in the simple presence of seeing a girl in shorts, for instance. On the other hand (in a reprehensible way), dress codes for boys have very little to do with the arousal of nearby girls. The lesson to schoolchildren is that girls can control their urges while boys can't. Long way to go before any real reformation occurs, I'm sorry to say.
4
Even if women don't report harassment through official channels, they need to get the word out and discuss - with friends, co-workers, social media. People need to be warned about the serial harassers at least informally. Those people need to get starved of talent and other resources.
2
Molested at the age of five by a rural white male, propositioned twice by married men, leered at, hassled, and pursued relentlessly until I was bout 35. This is a real life experience of mine. Are all men this way? No. But it's real and clearly many women have experienced this. It happens in the work place AND in one's personal life. Men who have experienced are seeing the same thing from women who are using the very tactics that bring others power and control. I doubt this is just an American thing.
I wonder how US sexual mis-conduct compares to places like the Netherlands where things like healthcare and survival are not tied so tightly to monetary gain? Where success (as defined by society) is not so tightly tied to power and control.
5
Laura, I hear you. I have had similar experiences. I was molested by the family doctor, abused by both parents, harassed on the job, etc. I've had men call me names that are not printable here when I've had to ask them to move their cars, or if I've been the least bit assertive. I've been physically threatened by men for no reason at all or because I annoyed them for some reason. Whenever women get together and talk about the workplace or life the stories that come up do not vary.
Women are expected to tolerate being sexually harassed, physically harassed and abused inside and outside the home. It's viewed as our lot in life. It's used as way to keep us "in our place". It's even worse when we have a Harasser in Chief who bragged about it.
4
Don't know you, never met you but I've encountered waaaaaay too many women with similar stories as yours.
Didn't think such a phenom existed as a young kid but once I moved back home in my early 20s, my mother finally HIPPED me to things that was going on around me.
That and the many female friends I've had discussions.
And LIFE surprised me (yet again) even more when that scandal broke in the Catholic Church.
2
It's not just the workplace where women are at risk. From age 11-16, along with a group of other girls of similar age, I was subjected to daily attempts to grab my breasts while I was traveling home from school on public transport. The grabbers were school boys from a different secondary school further along the route. Most of the boys had squeaky prepubescent voices, were shorter than us, but who came storming onto the bus like a pack of hunting wild animals. For the rest of the journey, we girls had to endure surprise assaults as little boy hands thrust under our blazers and coats. Laughter and cheering by the boys, silence and shame for us girls learning to hate our developing bodies and an early lesson in gender power dynamics. I never told my parents or teachers. I don't think I even heard anyone say the word "breast" out loud in those days (mid 70s). And the reaction would most likely be one or both of these: "boys will be boys" and "what do you expect with those melons?"
4
Because false accusations can, and DO, happen, let's be sure that reporting and follow-up processes are fair to BOTH parties. Women are not inherently more honest than men. In many employment situations, particularly the more enlightened companies and organizations, workers are well aware that an accusation of sexual harassment is the kiss of death to a man's job. I have personal knowledge of several situations where a woman whose romantic interest was rejected tried to spite a male co-worker this way.
3
It is past time. Women need to assume power, in so many ways. As a society we need to commit to real EQUITY, for all persons. Only in the most short-sighted vision will this bring net disadvantage, i.e. even for white patiarchs like me.
That said, let's hope Americans can preserve the nurturing crucible between men and women, women and women, men and men, and women and men. That creative space is where Love and Beauty reside, and where they preside over the lesser partner, Power. It would certainly be a shame if we can't succeed in securing humanity as we strive for Equity.
2
Women and girls cannot wait for the culture to change and a new generation of boys to be born and educated. Women must take charge of their own lives. They must respond immediately and forcefully to harassment and abuse. They must have the courage to put their jobs at risk and fight for their well-being on the job and, when necessary, in court.
Only when women empower themselves will the culture change for the better.
3
Oh, please. Maybe we should wait for a new generation of girls to be born and educated. (Indoctrinated?) No, only the boys should be indoctrinated because the girls are perfect in every way.
1
True, but only because the author of this comment seems to imply that men are unable to comprehend --or simply do not care--that their behavior is inappropriate.
I have to admit, I did not read the entire article. Some of the posts, though, were more than enough. This is like asking will Trump become a better person? Hmmm! In the beginning and in the end, it is all about parenting. Until there is a significant upgrade across the board in America, this kind of abuse will persist. In the final analysis, it is simply another form of oppression. Males seem to engage in this readily. It is quite understandable that women, who are looking for a mate can fall in to this trap, for, obviously, there thousands of male cads out there. Chaperone, please!
As for companies, there should be a policy in which people are never alone in the work place with another person. What they decide to do outside of work is up to them, but if it was my daughter, I would not be too accepting of the "me too" stuff, if it happened outside the office, and one placed themselves in an supervised situation. I am not blaming the victim here, but I would caution them on flying in to the flame.
We can only hope that we find our way out of this dillema, so that women and men can have honest relationships that are not harmful to either. It is not better to have loved and lost, if in the end you were abused.
2
It is good to have powerful men put on notice--this kind of harassment is cultural as well as pathological and hardly new. But men (or women for that matter; what goes around comes around) should not be tried in the media. Young and unpowerful ones can also have their lives ruined by accusers--many unidentified--who are not using legal avenues and due process. That too is hardly new. The courts must be made to work a little better for this situation. I don't see reforms being proposed--only the power once more of hashtags and Twitter.
1
Biology primarily drives this: dominance/pecking orders; continuing the species (competition to mate, alpha males often controlling and mating with multiple females); evidence that a new woman entering a room raises testosterone levels in some men in that room; evidence that winning a contest raises testosterone levels in male participants; differences in physiques, giving men physical dominance over women (read, intimidation); etc.
Biological factors arrive fresh with every birth; constant, appropriate modeling and training are needed to affect significant changes later in life. Psychosocial behaviors (pack mentality; power and its misuse; competition among employees; prejudices, etc.) augment biologic imperatives and must be addressed. Perp-walks, job loss, imprisonment, humiliation, financial loss and other significant consequences help ameliorate the problems in certain society strata (Harvey Weinstein treatment work in small business, town or culture where abused “underlings” have little or no support from peers, family, community?). That response is at the wrong end of the pipeline. Calling out “inappropriate” (euphemism; should be banned) behaviors and evidence of subsequently changed behaviors is necessary. It must be accompanied, however, by equally vigorous recognition of and attention to the biological imperatives that are the ultimate causes of these travesties and that arrive, fresh, with each birth. We must, as a society, become stronger than biology.
2
I went to Catholic school where great emphasis was placed on self control. I do not think using "biology" as an excuse for male bad behavior is either reasonable or acceptable.
I echo some others here, but I cannot accept that this is a man problem. It is a character problem. It is a problem that women share, whether they like to admit their part in it or not. Women of poor character share culpability. How is it that men with power and money always seem to have a "trophy" woman on their arm? That scoundrel Bill Clinton? His victims were attacked by Hillary Clinton. They paid a huge price for trying to call him to account. If every man who abuses power was shut down by women, this ends. But when poor character meets poor character, this perpetuates. It hurts more than just women. Men and women unwilling to sacrifice principle and integrity for advancement suffer. It is a mistake to say this is about men, and only men. The vast majority of women in this country know they were raised by decent men and women. They know they can trust their husbands and brothers, and they know they can follow their mothers' example. I wouldn't trust Clinton, Trump, or Weinstein anywhere near my daughter. But I don't want her around any of the women who accepted their advances, either. Please remember, this isn't about sex. It is about character.
3
No, " women of poor chatter" do not share culpability. Harassment is about exercising power over another person. It is not about the "character" of the women. That antediluvian concept is all wrong.
1
Then explain the long line of women who have rejected this nonsense. It is antediluvian to think that women are so frail as to always be subject to any of this.
2
To be clear, I am not talking about force. Assault and rape are crimes, and no victim should be shamed. They carry the humiliation and false guilt that comes from being victimized. But almost all of Weinstein's accusers, and all of Trump's, and most of Clinton's complain of harassment in the pursuit of sexual favors. But there are several women we know of who accepted the trade off. Explain Paltrow.
The causes and driving forces of sexual harassment, sexual assault and abuse is a great deal more complicated and elusive of change than any ethical or legal nostrum can resolve. As the editorial points out, such forces are "embedded in America's culture of sexual harassment." It is no small matter to change a culture. Further, it is, I believe, critical to not separate harassment, assault and abuse of women (and sometimes men, though I have met many guys who revel and welcome being sexually harassed) from the divorce rate in the US (much higher than in Europe). our multi billion dollar porn industry and the election of a president who received a substantial number of women votes despite being revealed as a sexual predator. Just as serious as the abuse of women is the accusation of chronic pedophilia in the entertainment industry made by Corey Feldman, who, as a child star said he was victimized by powerful pedophiles in the business. Not a peep about thus from "Me Too".
2
As a first step, it would help to have a clear, accepted definition of "sexual harassment" -- a definition that doesn't come down to saying it's whatever the "victim" says it is. The concept gets fuzzy around the edges, which is where most contention exists, and a lot of possible "predators" just don't know. If we had such a definition "training" to improve conditions in the workplace and elsewhere would be more feasible and effective. Mr. Weinstein and Mr. Cosby clearly fall on the wrong side of the line, but they aren't the typical cases in which "harassment" is claimed. And if we're really serious about sexual harassment, why not do something to end the one type everyone agrees is fits the definition and is both epidemic and severe: rape in prison. That's one area where government clearly has a role.
2
As a man, I take issue with the title of this piece.
I’m a man, and I don’t need to be “reformed.” Most of my male friends don’t either.
3
I'm 47 and have only ever worked in companies where HR looked out for the company first, beginning with shareholders and trickling down from the top, never for its employees. Anyone who thinks HR is there for women is setting themselves up for a truly uncomfortable and disappointing, to say the least, workplace experience. I won't believe a single thing will change until male founders and CEOs start coming forward and talking about the changes they are implementing in the workplace, beginning with HR, to make safer and less threatening environments. (My husband and I both work for very powerful and well-known corporations and have not heard one peep about this issue from HR or our leaders since the Weinstein scandal broke.) So I don't want to hear from Sheryl Sandberg! I already now what a woman thinks about this issue. Why aren't journalists asking the men who run the top 50 corporations in America what they are doing to combat sexual harassment in the workplace and how and why they feel it is their responsibility to do so?
5
While workplace rules and laws are important, there always seems to be a "work around" to these, based on a system of social values that inform male and female notions of hierarchy, self worth and behavior irrespective of the workplace.
Nothing will ever change until parents raise sons and daughters with a belief and value system of gender equality, and teach male and female children to respect themselves and others. Girls must be raised to truly and honestly value and respect themselves and other females. Then and only then will they know that they can and must reject, report, and absolutely not tolerate any and all unwanted sexual advances and behaviors. No job is worth more than your safety and self respect.
1
Trump's election will not reform the Republican party. Just as truly, Weinstein's troubles will likely do nothing to mitigate predatory behavior. So long as there are lack of laws on the book that will punish even mildly aggressive behavior, let alone blatant assault, it is unlikely that such behavior will simply disappear.
It could be argued that Trump's popularity, both within his base and across the party, increased after his sexually explicit remarks were aired publicly. He taunted not only Hillary but scores of other women during his campaign and was rewarded with the Presidency !
I believe it is not just Utopian but foolhardy to believe that social rejection or taboo will change this kind of behavior because what is needed here is an overhaul of social expectations which are generational and a change to the legal structure that encourages reporting and mandates punishment.
Martin Luther King Jr. gave his speech at the Lincoln Memorial more than 50 years ago. We now have a white supremacist in the White House. Sobering thought, isn't it ? Look at how many lawyers are jumping to Weinstein's defense ! Look at how many people are still defending Trump's behavior !
3
Addressing male harassment and abuse of women is highly important, as my personal history attests, and maybe women will be strong enough to take the lead on this, but other sexual harassment and abuse is equally harmful... male on male and female on female or male.
The underlying issue may be that, historically, we've viewed sex as a secret, a sin, or a joke. We have not been viewing human sexuality as a whole, as more than sexual acts, as a part of our identity worthy of open discussion at every age. How, then, do we expect kids to become adults who make appropriate decisions in this area?
The editorial expresses the usual, sexisit, identity politics view that "men" need "reform." Most men don't harass, and men are victims of harassment too. People aren't perfect, especially when letting their junk do the thinking. Another weakness of the editorial is conflating serious abusers-like Weinstein or Clinton- with the actions of a neurologically impaired 93 year old in a wheelchair. That dilutes the concept of harassment, and invites the view that it's all just identity politics. That kind of overreach is how we got Trump.
5
There are a few things in this discussion that could use some clarity.
First, the vast majority of men do not commit such offenses, yet we tend to be tarred by the same brush. That actually makes a bit of sense; women have something to fear, so the are wary.
Second, it's about power as much as sex. Powerful people can and do exploit people with less power. That's the fundamental nature of power. The reason you don't find men being harassed very often is because they don't have anything that powerful women want. Men's sexuality is less valuable than women's, so there is little reason to extort anyone to get it.
Third, some men resent this reality, and when they become powerful, they get even by harassing women.
If you want to unwind a problem, it helps to understand the underlying forces that drive it.
4
i don't understand why any unprofessional conduct is acceptable at work or why that is not made clear to every entering employee. or does a person become a creep only when he gets promoted?
The question to ask is, does management require training -- and rate performance -- based on adherence to EEO and affirmative action policies?
I would have preferred to see the current high level of women’s outrage over sexual assault during the 2016 presidential election. In the run-up to that election then candidate Donald Trump was repeatedly shown bragging that he had sexually assaulted many women over many years. He then went on to receive over 40% of the total women’s vote in that election. He received 52% of the white women vote. That result remains absolutely astonishing to me— not only is it a little less than inspirational, it seems to indicate that nearly half of all women are entirely willing to overlook (indeed, even support) sexual assault within some contexts. As a man who finds sexual assault/harassment deplorable, I believe men should call out other men over this subject. I'd also suggest there are more than a few women whose sensibilities need reforming as well.
3
The cause of sexual harassment and exploitation of women is not the attitude of men. The source of this attitude is the culture of domination that exists in this country—the domination of hierarchies and elites where men occupy the top rungs. Even if some women join the top echelons in this culture of domination, the situation will not change much. This culture allows some people to take advantage of others and that’s what many men at the top of the hierarchy do. Only by ending the social and political practice of exclusion and domination we can end all forms of oppression, including sexual harassment and exploitation of women.
Obviously some people will be deterred from engaging in this objectionable conduct but it will be virtually immeasurable because you cannot keep statistics as to how many people do not commit crimes.
Of course you can argue that, by default, those who do not commit these crimes is everyone else.
It is little too harsh to label all men as bad in the category of Harvey, Clinton, or Trump. There are many many good men, who respect with all fairness, almost as their equals or even higher their female counterparts in everyday life, at home, workplace and society at large.
The ones who are abusers, are often cunning human beings, and their harassment is not limited just among men, and sexual - but it will be found in many forms.
Among many good ideas of reform, the ones in top category should be - Rejection and Immediate action. The burdens of which should be bore more by the corporations and organizations, than the individuals alone. Shame is a big deterrent, and it has more power in the social media age but it may not be just enough.
2
The better question would have been will men reform themselves. Until a majority of men do the required soul searching and examining of their attitudes towards women and the source of those attitudes progress will be slow and tedious. What needs to be examined is what approaches would compel men to change there attitudes because they now understand the moral and humanitarian reasons for doing so. Real change will be because of changing hearts and minds, but some well applied social pressure is not going to hurt and more than likely be required.
Mandatory reporting will cause real change.
All citizens must understand that they themselves or their loved ones may be the next victim. The only real solution is immediate enactment of state and federal laws for mandatory reporting of sexual harassment and sexual assault . In some states, veterinarians have a duty to report instances of animal cruelty. We should protect each other from sexual predators and from the enablers and colluders involved in hiding these predators from prosecution .
Mandatory reporting requirements are frequently accompanied by provisions that make failing to file a report a crime itself. All citizens must understand that they themselves or their loved ones may be the next victim. Enablers and colluders must also be held accountable and at the minimum be fired.
20
I'm a 59 yr. old dad. My awesome wife and I have raised two sons, ages 21 and 24. I've stayed on the sidelines on this issue but something needs to be said- NOT all men are pigs and we should applaud the role models who instill respect for women in our sons. My mom left El Paso Tx. for Northwestern U in the 1940's. she secured her Masters in the 1970's. My mom led by her actions and my dad taught me to respect women. Enough vitriol painted with too broad a brush. We who are left of center hammer the GOP when its leaders act badly. Will we now with Hollywood as the target?
6
All the men we hear and read about in the past month are in the glamour industries: movies, TV, publishing. Either the men or their victims are celebrities on a certain level. But the army of abused women throughout the country are still going to be abused because the world of Harvey Weinstein means nothing to them,
What about the waitresses, often single moms, who have to "put out" to a restaurant manager, not a celebrity, to get a better shift or a station with higher tips. What about the women in ordinary offices, factories and othe work places, who have to put up with abuse because their wages are vital to the support of their family, not because there were fearful of damaging their career ambitions?
The story of sexual harassment and abuse in America is yet to be told. We've heard from the stars, now let's know about the rest. These women are almost never heard and no one is offering them hush money.
66
All citizens must understand that they themselves or their loved ones may be the next victim. The only real solution is immediate enactment of state and federal laws for mandatory reporting of sexual harassment and sexual assault . In some states, veterinarians have a duty to report instances of animal cruelty. We should protect each other from sexual predators and from the enablers and colluders involved in hiding these predators from prosecution .
Mandatory reporting requirements are frequently accompanied by provisions that make failing to file a report a crime itself. All citizens must understand that they themselves or their loved ones may be the next victim. Enablers and colluders must also be held accountable and at the minimum be fired.
1
Missing from this Editorial is the role of women in making such behavior unacceptable.First, flaunting their skills, abilities and accomplishments rather than their physical attributes or wiles.Second, helping create an environment where men, particularly those in positions of authority, are excessively guarded in their interactions with women for fear of being accused of inappropriate behavior.Both get in the way of women being taken seriously, treated professionally and given the recognition they deserve.
6
I commend your observation and it's not incorrect, from your perspective of course and I'm certain many others.
Where I differ, I've seen I don't know how many women that "Flaunt", "Flirt", and dress like Garden Tool.
1. My experience, those aren't the ones that are harassed or violated. Not even one I recall.
2. And Be it a women like that, a kid with Tats on his neck, or Hair I can't comprehend,...I don't let those appearances dictate my ability to judge them as a workers. For the folks that had "Appearance" or personality Issues I've had excellent working relationships, for the most part. I judge by results and how I'm personally treated. BUT I STILL HAVE ISSUES WITH folks choice of dress, hair,..but that's my problem, I guess?
Example, when I was a lot younger (see the 1980s) I had Male Bosses that cursed everyother noun and verb and they were some of the best bosses, smart, and honest people I've known.
Wow I can just feel Donald Trump's approval ratings rising as I read this. Twitter ammunition that the Fake Media hate all men. Even after the Access Hollywood tapes, Trump won a majority of the voles cast by white women. No doubt, harassment is a scourge in the workplace. You think this piece helps or hurts your cause?
1
As with so many of these articles, there are a bunch of “shoulds”. Businesses should make reporting easier. Men should do this. Women should do that.
Let me offer something concrete.
Establish outside reporting agencies (for sex crimes of all types.) Work place harassers are often complaining up a chain of command that includes the harasser. The outside agencies would then report the anonymous complaint to the appropriate manager or company entity. Also, an outside agency would be able to compile information that would accumulate over time.
The importance of outside agencies is that the corporate structure is composed of interwoven alliances and friendships that tend to encourage personal alliances. As in “loyalty” to the individual is one of the most coveted traits in the conservative hierarchy.
Changing the culture of business is nebulous and unlikely. Changing the procedure is easy and almost instantaneous and such a procedure would quickly change the culture, which is based on alliances and loyalty more than it is based on morality and decency.
25
As a woman & a mother of both sons & daughters, I object to the assertion that this is about "reforming men."
The fundamental assumption here is that some groups may be legitimately condemned by the actions of a few, &, for other groups , the very idea is verboten. So, for example, extremist Muslims (I have to be clear from the get-go I'm talking about a fringe group) can never stand for the actions of the whole; the very idea is considered racist.
Yet men can be condemned for the actions of a few; the few defines the whole. Yet my own sons do not act like Weinstein--two are in fact victims of sexual assault. Yet that conversation cannot take place, making my sons even more victimized.
The 'progressive' narrative places individuals according to their tribe, which are expected to have lockstep goals/experiences - if not they are traitors to their tribe. The tribes are categorized by victim vs oppressor, where the oppressed are a variety of victim-groups each fighting for victim-dominance. Who gets to be on this victim-hierarchy is decided, utterly unironically & unselfsconsciously, by powerful white Western progressives. Thus, e.g., they get to decide who is a 'true Muslim,' not the Muslims themselves.
It is a perverse way of maintaining power while denying they have the power.
Let's reform the abuses of power itself, regardless of tribe affiliation. Parodoxically, it is often this very affiliation - for Weinstein being a vocal Dem - that shields abusers for so long.
8
Good editorial but still a very narrow look at the forces working against women. Men and women live parallel lives where women experience all sorts of biased and assaultive treatment about which most men are oblivious. At the heart of this bias is a profound devaluing of women. I'd even call it women-hating. It's not like any other bias. It's not founded on slavery. It's a primal oppression that's existed for millennia. Only by exploring how boys secure their manhood (against the female body) can we come to understand fully the obstacles women face.
2
"Will Harvey Weinstein's Fall Finally Reform Men?"
No. No it will not.
6
Not the Creeps it won't. You're 10000% Correct.
But maybe it'll empower victims more and for us on the Sidelines to be more involved in Policing, inquiring, when you see that (potential) victim acting differently-try to find a way to do something,...?
2
Until more women are truly in charge of business, movies, there will always be a Harvey Weinstein looming in those "meeting places" where women have had to enter and "pay the price" for simply making a living.
The question really is - how can we get women to the top and totally replace the Weinsteins?
We also need to teach women from the time they are little on that their world does not need to be a man's world.
Those are our challenges. Still in 2017 and beyond.
1
Maybe when Lawmakers in local, State and Federal offices are accused and found guilty of sexual harassment or abuse, laws will be changed to effectively protect women. Maybe shaming of men who are guilty, instead of the victim, Ala Monica Lewinsky will actually work. It did not work in the case of Bill Clinton, Bill O'Reilly or Donald Trump. Women voted for both Clinton and Trump. And until the run of the mill women come to grips with the fact that they are rewarding men for bad behavior by voting for them and putting them in positions of power in our country, we do not have a chance of changing this "boys will be boys" culture. After all if men who run the country get away with it, men in every other profession will too.
We still live in the shadow of the doctrine of coverture: a woman was subsumed into her husband upon marriage – we still see it in effect in many countries. Some religious practices require a woman to be that subservient. Those values are obstacles for women to challenge and overcome, but are disabilities of men who believe that those values give men any right over another person.
Old legal rules (think landlord/tenant, employer/employee and family law) created behavior that supported and implemented them; the revocation of coverture, diminishment of feudal land rights and employer power, and realignment of who may marry whom did not wash away the conventions, social habits or even child rearing practices. The structure that supported rejected legal principles is still with us.
Perhaps another question about workplace harassment needs to be answered, too: What’s acceptable behavior when two individuals discover that they want to become more intimate than the marketplace needs or permits? Certainly, one element of the rule is that both individuals must consent in one or more obvious ways (Weinstein seems to hide in the claim his victims ‘consented’); another element may be that an individual in an inferior position of power will be given the benefit of any doubt if that subservient person says no ‘consent’ was given (but not too inferior, after all, in the US a child has no capacity ever to give consent to some adult ‘requests’). This is a much deeper topic.
1
Million dollar a year Hollywood performers, competitively interacting with a man who can make or break them for any reason or no reason, will always be in a unique category. It is naive to expect that there will be any change in Hollywood. The good news is that most people don't have a dog in that fight; if it bothers them they can and should stop watching Hollywood content.
Harassment and sexual inequality in the regular workforce, for the rest of us, is a different matter. There are many structural barriers; for instance, most of the startups I have been associated with have been, initially, all male. This is partly driven by the existing female spouses. They are wary of the competition, and have a zero tolerance approach to their spouses working long intimate hours with a potential romantic threat. This is entirely rational, no sane spouse sits idly by while their entire life structure and meal ticket is at risk.
Is there hope? Sure. But it is against the backdrop that humans are not robots, they are first and foremost human, indeed their identity as romantic or family creatures is often stronger than their identity as a organizational galley slave. The romantic aspects of all participants will always play a part.
7
The NYT loves to write about sexism in Hollywood and in the tech industry. Isn't it time to shine a light on the financial industry - which by all accounts is worse? Or is that too close to home?
8
this has absolutely NOTHING to do with any industry---look in the mirror, there is the problem and the solution put there the day you were born.
Reform men? When did such sweeping sexist generalizations become just part of the day to day currency of the Times editorial policy?
20
Sociopaths...when they are not busy murdering people...tend to be successful in the business world due to their ruthlessness, lack of empathy, and rejection of social norms. Unfortunately, when they reach the top...or a position of authority above you...they are still sociopaths and act like it.
5
And since $ucess means $$s, they get protected.
It's an argument I used to always lose (by majority) against the older folks I grew up around that worked in industries where they didn't Pay Taxes:)
But I'm starting to believe I lost those arguments because of the FACTs:)?
Why is nobody bringing up the fact that by choosing to let this pig seduce them, they were complicit in favoritism putting other actresses out of potential work
11
Kevin, the same could be said about the person that hired you for the job you currently have. It is always one person over another. I choose one charity to give to over another, a take one girl to the movies over another. It is calaled personal choice, even at the corporate level.
1
Because the so-called "choice" is made under duress.
2
Trapped in a room with a predatory pervert? Unexpectedly?
There’s little time for people to think through all aspects of what to do. If they even get a choice of what to do.
Have more compassion, please.
2
Shouldn't the same standard now be held for abusive men in the gay culture as well as abusive women in fashion??
8
All abuse is wrong. Period. Yelling at people, insulting them, groping them, threatening them. It is all wrong. Some day we will recognize rankism for the disease it is
What an idiotic headline. While we are making men perfect, can we reform women too?
Let's start with less narcissism and self-serving emotionalism, them move on to more accountability for their actions. And finally, we can get to that double-standard - you know, the one where woman are equal until man is called up to be the protector and savior.
All of humanity if flawed; men and women. Political correctness does not serve anyone.
17
Wow, equating addressing: Harassment, Assault, Rape with being PC?
That, Or the perps are just "Flawed":):)
Thanks for the reply. I don't mean to equate PC with sex crimes, only want to point out that "Finally Reform Men" is Ok to publish, but could you ever imagine the headline "Finally Reform Women" ?
1
Simply stated, no. Men still run Hollywood, the government, and the majority of businesses in America. Add the repulsive sexual harasser in chief and a justice department that plainly does not care about women, and it will be a long hard road for reform-minded persons.
5
Please stop white washing Bill Clinton’s behavior. While you mention allegations you only state he acknowledged an affair with Monica (which most people consider consensual despite the obvious differences in power). You fail to mention he paid Paula Jones $850,000 to settle a sexual harassment lawsuit where he exposed himself to her. The fact that you never mention that shows the obvious bias you have in under reporting transgressions by Democrats. You do no favors to women taking this biased approach and undermine your credibility.
5
Can we go back to 1991 and consider whether Clarence Thomas was really the victim of a "high tech lynching" or just another man in a position of power who got away with it?
4
Men have always used power and money to get sex. They always will. It is biology. That is the basic drive underlying the drive for power and money.
Women have always used sex to get power and money. The rest is cultural details. Culture can channel the biology but not damn it. The question presupposes a blank slate hypothesis of human nature, the liberal version of science denial that created the law that essentially mandated that James Damore be fired for stating research based facts. Genes are destiny.
7
What genes confer power and money?
Men have always used power and money to get sex...."
Sometimes they even used dinosaur hide and mammoth flesh too, and fire, don't forget about fire, and a nice cave with some "scrawls " on the walls.
1
Baloney! And disgusting. Did you see James Damore? He is a little puny weakling. "Research-based" facts? Nonsense. The well-done research indicates the opposite. Brains, different? Yes,somewhat. Different in intelligence? No. And some women who love tech are very very good at it. Damore is a whiner.
1
There are different cultures and classes of people. Not everyone is erudite. This article is just pandering to Times readers who have their head in the sand.
Let the masses do as they will and have done since the first woman who traded some time with her for some of the kill, and the first guy who drew an image of his engorged penis on some cave wall.
Hey, I know you don't like it, but when have those with class liked what those who lack it do? Practically Never!
Remember that 50% of the population is dumber than the better half. If one were to expect these people, men or women, and their offspring to behave with class, well one would be sorely disappointed. Enjoy life, stay away from the dumb and crude masses if you can!
1
Weinstein's fall will not reform the men who indulge in type of obscenity and abuse, it may frighten them into stopping but that is hardly the same thing. It has to start at home and in kindergarten. This has been around for centuries, it's ingrained in laws, religions, beliefs, culture and society worldwide, it's called patriarchy. Patriarchy, that absurd and crazy social system that denies fifty percent of human beings the right to equality and yet assigns them the lion's share of the blame, this system that has kept the human species from evolving. Women have been conditioned to feel it's their fault, their shame and have always been punished for it, even now. Did she ask for it? Did she wear a short skirt? As if everything woman do is to attract male attention, that is so arrogant and self-serving of men (and some seriously conditioned women) to choose to see the world in this skewed and screwed up way.
It's culture that needs to change and finally start evolving. I figure it will take four or five generations to change this toxic, bigoted mindset, if it's dealt with vigorously and system wide at every level. It is already happening but there is still a long way to go.
2
I know i'm going to get hammered over this... but here it goes.
The following statement certainly doesnt apply to most women.... but certainly to a significant number.. and doesnt justify sexual harrasment. However .. a significant number of women do dress and present themselves to accentuate their sexual appeal in public. This certainly contributes to society objectifying women. On the one end we have Mrs America contests. On the other we have Megyn Kelly who as a fox news reporter had no problem dressing in outfits to accentuate her sexual appeal. Feel free to google Megyn Kelly provocative poses. Would you ever see a serious male reporter doing that.
From personal experience having a woman coworker show up in shorts at work with a plunging neckline to accentutate her breasts. Numerous women are using sex to get ahead. This is DIFFERENT from presenting yourself professionally and attractively.
Again this does not justify a man grabbing a woman or making UNWANTED advances. However if a woman shows up at a meeting or job interview in a skimpy or provacative outfit what type of mixed message is that sending to a man. Does she want him to make an advance?
10
We live in a culture that promotes sex, sells it, uses it to market everything from clothes to food to automobiles to vacations. We have a multi-billion dollar porn industry which caters to any fetish a man may have. Women are taught (usually by other women) at an early age that to feel attractive (wanted) is to be feminine.
A whole bunch of things need to happen for the child-like wishes of this editorial board to come true. In this case, if you want to end Sexual Harassment (our modern term for unwanted flirting) by men of women, then women need to stop presenting themselves as sexual creatures in general. When you see a woman working in an office wearing hooker-heels, a hip-hugging mini-skirt and a sleeveless top that shows "just enough but not too much skin" one has to wonder if that outfit actually enables her to do her job better or faster? When a normal man sees this tasty treat presented in front of him what is he supposed to think? Look - but not too obviously - and don't you dare touch! Don't say anything that she might construe to be sexual, so don't compliment her outfit or her figure or her hair. Keep everything strictly professional by pretending you're not attracted to the woman that's trying to look as attractive as possible. And keep playing this game, day after day, cuz if you give into those evil urges you'll end up like the disgraced Harvey Weinstein.
Gimme a break. Men define themselves largely by their sexual urges. When will women understand that??
9
you had me along for the ride until "Men define themselves largely by their sexual urges. When will women understand that??"
I think even Freud would say , ": a cigar can just be a cigar."
1
Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?
***
No. Weinstein is a predator. We will always have those; we have one in the White House right now. Predators can't be reformed, they can only be contained or eliminated. What we are looking at with Cosby, Ailes, O'Reilly, etc. is the potential to change our societal mores such that this behaviour faces stiffer penalties, that victims of such predators feel empowered to resist, and to come forward to accuse wrongdoing with less fear of retribution.
3
the death penalty has stopped killers in the least.
How did Donald J. Trump, a man without character, a hit on dominant abuser of women and a pathological liar come to be President of the United States? That is the big fat elephant sitting in the middle of the room here. We've had aggressive and abusive males in the White House before, vulgar and profane Johnson, smooth and seductive - even fay, Kennedy, and we've had their opposite, Carter. None of them, and this includes Bill Clinton and the Bushes, made a daily practice of aggressively grabbing and abusing a strange woman. Evidence points to the fact that Trump did. Hell, he basically bragged about it on tape to the whole country and Billy Bush. But, his cult followers and 44% of the rest of the nation chose to ignore that.
If you think that didn't send a clear message, you need to get your head examined. Even the reason we have been offered up the Weinsteins, Ailes, Ladesmans, Tobacks, and Halperins, is arguably to distract from the Trump/Russian collusion and the revelations of the dossier. And the message take away motivating the FOX factor pushing these stories is, "see everyone does it."
We need to get rid of Trump and his clan and their corrupt kleptocracy. Everything else in our society will be a sham until we do. The Times, and the rest of the media are still being led around by their noses on this by a fascist dictatorship.
3
Just remember that when the pendulum gets pushed hard in one direction, it comes back just as hard in the other. That Weinstein is an egregious example of predatory male privilege is clear. It's a corruption perfectly perfectly natural, healthy masculine sex drive and aggressiveness. Be careful that you don't vilify the one while rightfully condemning the other. The danger in condemning masculinity writ large is that men collectively circle the wagons--if every professional interaction with women carries the potential of being accused of harassment, expect to see fewer men collaborating with their female colleagues or inviting them to join in on the off-hours bull sessions where so much of the real thought work often gets done. I know men who already refuse to interact one-on-one with women--there always needs to be at least one other person in the room. As the recent election has shown, don't underestimate the collective power of reactionary men. Only in this case, it won't just be white men.
5
When the message America has sent to the young men and boys of the world is it is ok to “grab’em by the p****”, nothing will change. Harvey Weinstein is irrelevant. As long as America condones and accepts the behavior of its president nothing will change.
3
Will Trump's lowly abuse of Megan Kelly, Hillary Clinton, Susan Collins, Frederica S. Wilson and countless others reform men?
Will Trump short-lived fall from grace with his vulgar language on film boasting about grabbing p***y reform men?
Will Trump's admission of fraud perpetrated on female and male students by his now defunct University reform men?
Given the direction of the country, Harvey Weinstein, now more infamous than ever, qualifies for government service -- maybe as Secretary of a newly formed Department of Women Affairs, the mission of which would be to Make American Great Again for white American males.
No different than the mode of Pruitt at the EPA, DeVos as Secretary of Education and so on.
5
Thinking or hoping men will "reform" since the news splash about Weinstein's long term abuse to women is like assuming the behaviors of men like Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, and John Wayne Gary can also reformed. Their behaviors are a sickness and predatory. They truly enjoy hurting people and having power over their victims. It's not simply being disrespectful.
The saddest and scariest element to this story is the untold number of other men doing exacting what Weinstein did and the untold number of women who are too afraid, ashamed, and/or embarrassed to come forward and speak up.
3
MEN don't need to be reformed. Sexual harassers need to change their behavior or face legal and social penalties.
14
The editorial board and many commenters are all over the place on this issue.
Sexual harassment in the workplace is well defined. However, outside of the workplace there is no universal definition. What former president HW Bush did was not in the workplace, but rather at a photo op where different rules apply.
There are plenty of off-color jokes about sex that would be clearly offensive to women. What if I tell a really nasty sexual joke to another man at Thanksgiving dinner with several women present at the table? Did I commit a crime? Can I be sued? Was there sexual harassment?
Biology is not sexist. Men and women are different when it comes to sex. It would be amazing to hear that a 92 year old woman in a wheelchair groped a young man.
Finally, you can’t legislate morality or good manners or good taste.
5
Of course you can't be sued for words you speak at a Thanksgiving dinner. No one has proposed attaching criminal penalties to the offensive behavior men (or women) do in private life.
The law cares about sexual harassment in the workplace, for obvious reasons. No one should be subjected to degradation as they go about the business of making a living. No one should have obstacles to advancement because of their sex.
"What if I tell a really nasty sexual joke to another man at Thanksgiving dinner with several women present at the table? Did I commit a crime? Can I be sued? Was there sexual harassment?"
Alberto's questions highlight a fundamental misunderstanding many men have of what constitutes sexual harrassment.
It's not that women are too delicate to hear "nasty sexual jokes"--you should hear some of the jokes we tell about men.
It's the atmosphere of authority and privilege that surrounds men throughout our culture. In Alberto's scenario, men and women are gathered at a social event, and men feel free to tell "nasty sexual jokes" to each other. The men's concern only begins with the women's objections.
Women don't tend to tell "nasty sexual jokes" in mixed company because we tend to frame our conversation around topics of inclusion, not exclusion. It has nothing to do with protecting feminine sensibilities. It's got everything to do with making all in the group feel welcome and valued.
When men grasp this, we will finally be on our way to social change.
3
Men are not concerned with inclusion or exclusion.
They are thinking about sex (one way or another) all of the time. It’s a “guy thing” that a woman will never truly understand. HW Bush is still going strong in his 90s.
It is biological. Parents, preferably two, should teach their boys good manners, civility and respect for girls and women.
As we men learn to truly understand that making a pass at a woman is really harassment that is hurtful and sometimes harmful over the long-term when done in any situation where the man holds more economic, business or political power than the woman, it is also important that women take their share of the responsibility for acting appropriately. Women may have a great deal less responsibility in harassment cases, but their responsibility is rarely zero. The power of nature demands sexual congress so the human race can continue, while cultural norms demand restraint and mutual respect; this fundamental dynamic and the tension it creates between nature and society will never cease. As we progress from the era of "Me Tarzan, you Jane," we men must be respectful of a woman's vulnerability, while women must be aware of the mating signals they are sometimes sending. Going into a hotel room alone with a man sends a different signal to a man than, say, a lunch in a busy restaurant; women need to be aware of that difference and they need to be taught to recognize it at a young age, just as boys need to be taught that it is NEVER OK to use power of any kind to coerce women to have sex with them. While we may be at an important tipping point in cultural awareness for us men, such enlightened awareness must also extend to women. This is very different from other gender issues like equal pay, because the result of getting it wrong can be far more harmful and lasting to both women and men.
38
My friend, you have written with such wisdom that I am amazed it got by the Times censors. The issue is how do we reconcile sexual attraction with mutual respect. I have never even wanted to date a co-worker (I mean as official policy, since I have had several crushes) because I would like a little space. Don't want to mix my romantic life with my work life. Must I really have lunch with her 5 days a week? Seldom had subordinates, but that strikes me as lame. If a woman is not interested, you move on. Why coerce Miss A, B, or C, when Miss D is just around the corner and might really like you. If you have an ounce of self-respect you imagine you could charm a few women, so why bother women who are not interested?
Nope. Vulgarity and machismo is built in. Only mothers can teach respect and restraint, and that is no guarantee.
I'm toying with the idea of creating a body cam that looks like a piece of jewelry and giving it to my college aged daughter for christmas. I know from personal experience that sexual harassment and discrimination is part and parcel of the working world for women. As long as women are kept out of the upper echelons of management it will be a boy's club. While I understand the comments here that push back against the idea that men are largely the culprits, I would like these readers to contemplate for a moment what many women have learned to live with: To have your career aspirations tarnished and belittled, to be dismissed, to be the target of misogeny and sexual impureness, It is a bitter pill to swallow.
2
I did the same: I gave one to my son. To protect him against false allegations
Thank you for this brilliant editorial! Corporations, CEOs--are you listening? Congress, you should listen; if it's you're not, we're coming for you.
Perhaps as part of this new bargain, there could be restrictions on what women wear to work. I say this as a straight female often made extremely uncomfortable by too much exposure to other women's bodies in the workplace. Leggings are not pants, cleavage should be kept inside, collars -- in this new Victorian era -- should reach the chin. Men are stimulated visually, and I imagine it must be difficult to repress what amounts to a natural instinct with a low-cut blouse in the face. In other words, we have to get realistic here, if we're going to vanquish sexuality from public space. No woman needs to wear leggings in the office, nor does she need to wear a plunging neckline. What is the purpose of such clothing anyway? It ought to be just as * easy * to be modest as it is assumed for males to watch every single thing they do and say for fear a woman might take it as sexual harassment, now considered the ultimate form of harassment, worse than any other...yet she shows up for work in an office wearing what amounts to inappropriate clothing. Suit up women! There's a war on. You can't pin your medals to your flesh.
5
I hope this is intended to be humorous. It feels awfully Handmaid's Tale.
2
@Two Cents,
Thank you, you have framed the problem very well; I now have a better appreciation for your comments in general.
1
1. I TOTALLY agree on how I've observed some women dress in a professional environment. And it's not reserved for the "Youngins". It's worse when they're in their 30s<, a lot worse.
2. That has ZERO to do with many of the women I've known to have been violated. (And this from a guy that's had his share, your share, his share, Cher's Share, in relationships with women)
I honestly don't know a woman that dresses like a Garden Tool, that's been violated? I know they're out there but real Creeps go for the Weak,...and Garden Tools are anything but Weak:)
My experience (friendships with the type) they're the Main Ones that can Handle a Creep.
And unfortunately "USE" a Creep Too:):)
Now you could make a case that women that dress like that make it "Difficult" for the others. And I use the word "Difficult" because using the word that's synonymous with it is too juvenile:):) for this conversation.
There will always be predators. The best way to get it down to near zero is not to have co dependent, enabling women who put up with it and say something 30 yrs later, worse, complain only when the promotions stop or worse initiative it.
Kudos to the many women who did not do this including many in my company and especially to the model in the Weinstein case.
She did something ASAP while the other 30+ stars enabled the predator and/or co depended on him.
Not to all the enabling ultra feminists who will rant at this. I am not blaming the victim, I am blaming the victim who does nothing about it.
4
5 out of 16 members of the NYTs’ editorial board are women. Not bad. After reading this editorial my feeling is that it was written by one of the male members. I would like to know if I am mistaken. Why did this idea even occur to me? Well, let’s start with the last paragraph, which if I had been the editor signing off on this editorial, I would have insisted that the writer put in at least as much energy into his writing as he would if he were reporting on a World Series game. Here, I’ll take a stab at it myself:
In the end, we all could ask ourselves what percentage of the blame is on us, individually. How do WE raise OUR children? What commentary do we make about clothes actresses to tennis players, to cheerleaders wear that are designed to show bare skin that males just don’t need to exhibit? Who openly admires an actress for wearing a business suit when accepting an academy award? How many men in a Trump-like locker-room setting, protest and draw the line on stories that degrade not only women but themselves as well? How do we, personally act, speak, dress, comment and support by condoning in one way or another the people and industries that keep throwing their rotten cultural models in the public face? Don’t we all have to get to the point of not buying it all?
By the way, if a woman board member did write this editorial, please try harder next time.
1
Lets face if folks, we are fighting against Mother Nature. Natural selection has evolved men to do one thing incredibly well – pass our genes on to the next generation. Men are genetically programed to immediately evaluate a woman as a potential mate. And women don’t make it easy to resist this impulse. The cosmetic, fashion, and plastic surgery industries are huge, and are designed to enable women to avail themselves of their products so as to make themselves attractive to men. Full stop. Why do women with curvy figures wear form fitting clothes with a plunging neckline? One simple reason. To attract men.
The workplace is a social construct where we now want these primordial, genetically programmed impulses to be turned off. Don’t look, don’t touch, don’t comment. And don't use your alpha male power. It is certainly possible. But it is very, very hard to fight Mother Nature -- no matter how many man made laws are passed. Will the Weinstein, Clinton, Cosbys of the world reform men? Unlikely.
2
Why does the Times keep raising questions about gender norms? Three-tenths of one percent of the population have some sort of gender confusion. 99.7% of people understand their gender and are fine with it. There is no crisis, unless there is one in the Times newsroom. But don't project that on society. Folks with issues should address those issues, and society should be sympathetic, but let's not complicate and exaggerate a situation.
5
We will not fix this until we destroy the matriarchy.
We over fund woman's health care in comparison to men
We have 7 national agencies for the health of women and 0 for men
Men are 90% of all civil workplace fatalities
Men get 63% more jail time for the first time offense.
We ignore the failing boys in schools.
We must stop funding Woman's Studies Programs that lie about men:
men created civilization: almost all (ALMOST ALL) the art, music, science, engineering, medicine, law, literature, math, and physics. THE ONLY way to help men is to teach our boys that men are good.
2
Gee JT ... I'm a guy and I would sure never look at the sweep of history, or my grade-school experiences, or most of a working lifetime, and say anything as ridiculous as "men are good." I wouldn't say women are good either.
Some are, some aren't. Get real.
Bingo. Yes. I personally am tired of television shows in which every male character (Homer Simpson is the most widely-known cartoon character ever) is either an idiot or a psychopath. I am tired of the mindless, pointless, profit-driven and laughable sexual harassment training that's mandatory where I work. I'm tired of being stereotyped. This entire campaign is not about fairness or workplace equality. It's about making an example of Weinstein in the hope of intimidating everyone else though fear.
1
All of these "me too" complaints have been made by young and attractive women who were sexually harassed early in their careers by men who may have hired them in part on the basis of their sexual appeal.
I don't think that I have seen a single complaint from any young woman with a stronger academic resume who was passed over for hire by a male employer in favor of a more attractive female applicant.
I wonder why.
2
Well, when we're all being forced to live in a deeply corrosive, whitey-white Trumpian 'winners vs. losers' facade of dystopian political leadership, all bets are off for me in thinking that our hugely self-inflicted culture of male patriarchy will ever find a way to step up to the plate and begin to admit its troubling treatment of it's women and/or its' poor.
Sorry. Europe, while still not perfect, is still light years ahead of us on this topic. The US? We still rank down there with Saudi Arabia, on a certain level. And that my friends, is, downright- embarrassing.
3
Walk down a street in Riyadh dressed like like an average American woman going to work and let us know how things go.
1
There is not much chance of change unless men like Weinstein stay demonized in the news. The urgency fades fairly quickly. The groundswell should be constant. That is not likely. The despicable dissolute libertines such as Weinstein will tone down until the heat is off.
Harvey Weinstein's fall will not reform men because all men are not Hollywood gods like Weinstein and Hollywood is by no means a gold standard for the highest moral, ethical or exemplary behavior. The silence of the lambs for so many years is astounding as though whatever alleged sexual assault, sexual harassment and rape that is only now surfacing out of the woodwork was acceptable behavior or a minor inconvenience for advancing one's film career. What will finally reform men and women (a lot of female teachers seem to be having sex with under age students) is early moral upbringing, beginning in high school. In my high school run by catholic priests, moral science was a subject that was taught year round although even then there were a couple of rotten ones who sexually abused students. It is important that before one enters a work place that an extensive program in appropriate conduct in the work place should be completed by every individual. One cannot expect people to be reformed magically by peer pressure or by the news media, it will take considerable effort and continuing education to churn out future men and women who will respect each other in their workplace. Anita Hill was the first to draw attention to this problem and the reforming will take years.
1
I have been representing women in sex harassment cases for 35+ years. Why are all heads are now rolling? This and much worse has been occurring for decades - it has not been a secret. The publicity is only because these are big fish. No one is discussing your average used car manager or factory floor supervisor. They remain unnamed, clueless and will get away with what they can. No, I do not believe this will reform men - the memo that this is illegal went out long ago - see Clarence Thomas, Bill Clinton, and Donald trump, who was elected immediately on the heels of his admissions. This is a knee jerk reaction that will not last and will not trickle down. Without a determined HR department - and there are very few of those - women will be left to fend for themselves as best they can.
65
Enact mandatory reporting laws.
All citizens must understand that they themselves or their loved ones may be the next victim. The only real solution is immediate enactment of state and federal laws for mandatory reporting of sexual harassment and sexual assault . We should protect each other from sexual predators and from the enablers and colluders involved in hiding these predators from prosecution .
Mandatory reporting requirements are frequently accompanied by provisions that make failing to file a report is a crime itself. All citizens must understand that they themselves or their loved ones may be the next victim. Enablers and colluders must also be held accountable and at the minimum be fired. You will not have as many enablers or colluders if they will be held criminally libel along with the predator . Would you protect or report a predator ?
1
BTW, at the beginning of every studio film job,all new employess are required to participate in seminars that define sexual (and political) harassment. I
It has been illegal for as long as we have had an organized code of criminal law.
It used to be that it was accepted, even expected, that the husband, father, brother, etc. of the victim would respond violently. Not a good substitute for criminal proceedings (some accuseds are innocent), but probably made abuse much less common than it is today.
We just elected, less than a year ago, a self-confessed (on tape) sexual harasser and abuser to be the president of the United States. This doesn't bode well for how far we have come as a country on this issue. Liberals and conservatives seem to react differently.
The fundamental question is how do you change a man from sexually harassing women?
It should begin at home when the man in questiin is still a boy. His parents should remind him again and again that when he gets older he should respect women and mever touch a girl without informed consent.
It should also begin in elementary schools and followed by in middle and high schools. Teachers should be allowed to devise curriculum to educate boys about respect for girls.
No, it will not. Only castration may have a chance, but even that is not 100% certain. But don't despair just yet - with gene editing that Y chromosome could be put in a proper shape.
1
Brief story. Several decades ago, when I first met a woman who is now a good and close family friend, I was taken aback when, in the course of dinner conversation with a group of us, she matter-of-factly opined, "men are pigs."
After grappling with this for several days, I finally concluded that she is indeed correct.
So, to get to the question which is the title of your editorial, i.e., "Will Harvey Weinstein's Fall Finally Reform Men?", the answer is NO.
2
Please don't forget how horrible most HRs are. When I worked for the Architect of the Capitol, it was commonly known that every word of complaint you uttered in HR would be clandestinely reported to management.
8
Talk about "reforming men" is simple-minded.
I had a neighbor who was a predator - sexual and otherwise, and violent. He bragged about his victims. When he realized what I thought of him, I reciprocated the hostility he aimed my way.
Who defended him? Who relentlessly scolded me for being a bad neighbor, for "not trying to get along?" The women of the neighborhood, all professionals with advanced degrees, who giggled and flirted with him, though he concealed nothing of his nature from them or anyone else.
After he was taken away in cuffs one night, for beating his wife and son one time too many, the women of the neighborhood were all so very very surprised, and ostracized his wife, maybe for "not getting along" with him.
He spent a week in jail before he found someone to post bail, and that week in jail probably did more to reduce sexual violence against women than any nonsense about "reforming men". Better to put teeth into employment law enforcement, and teache women how to avoid those situations and how to fight back.
In my opinion.
70
If you knew about it (he told you), why didn't you turn him in to the police?
1
Or will it just chill the hiring of women...?
3
Is this a threat? Are you trying to scare women into shutting up again? I don't think it is working for you. The answer is simple. More women need to be in real positions of power within corporations and all centers of power, including their families.
2
This is the kind of thinking that makes change impossible- Thanks, H!
2
So If they can't Violate or Harass them,...why hire them?
If you want to understand the future of vile aggressive entitled male misogyny, check out these 2016 books: American Girls: Social Media and the Secret Lives of Teenagers - Nancy Jo Sales and Girls and Sex: Navigating the Complicated New Landscape -Peggy Orenstein.
Predatory male conduct is carefully calculated behavior. Until the perceived risks outweigh the anticipated rewards, why would it abate? What constitutes prosecutable criminal sexual misconduct is much in need of comprehensive reevaluation. The Weinsteins of the world should be facing serious incarceration.
13
I have been thinking about this issue a lot lately. Men are using young women's desire for sex against them. This just needs to stop. We need much more open discussions about about sexuality at home and at school. The girls need to feel that they have the power to have sex on equal terms. This is essential to the healthy future of our society. And no it is not normal. During the 70s in California, contrary to what Harvey says, women, myself included, felt empowered to seek out sexual partners and could find an equal playing field. Many of us came of age together. It was great. None of the new psychotic games and power plays were going on in my world. And the sex was really great. We also weren't into fetishizing everything. My kids see pictures of me from this era and can't believe it. Image was so different. Substance was what so many of us truly cared about. I think we had things right, but there was no money to be made (or not much) off our love of used clothes, vegetarian cooking, and thinking. But it was a wonderful time to be alive. I was a feminist in the Our Bodies Ourselves Era with lots hairiness, very nice male partners, and a lot of hope for our future. My daughter has not had this experience. Sadly. Women need to take back their power again. They need to see how they are being contained and constrained sexually, professionally. It isn't about blame. This just needs to happen for us to be a healthier society.
1
The last point about teenage boys needs to be highlighted. As a high school teacher, I know that sexploitation of teenage girls happens all the time. Boys ask for "nudes" as a precursor to a "talking" relationship. Girls too often give in to these demands, and the pictures they send can then be shared with others, and often are. There is even a page called a THOT page, which stands for That Ho Over There, where these pictures can be downloaded for others to see. To educated young men and women on this level seems to be essential if we are to change the culture of harassment and inequality.
11
Ok, so here goes. When I was around 17 James Toback stopped me on a side street in NYC, said he was looking for talent for his upcoming movie and told me to meet him at the Princeton club. New to NY and completely entranced with the concept of being "discovered" I rushed to the Princeton club on time ready for my life to finally begin. Instead, I was shown a bulleting board with over 200 index cards full of other girls or women who were given the same invitation. Toback never showed up, it was his way of enjoying power. Ok. Later, as a young editorial assistant, I was invited to a trade show where my boss booked one hotel room for us both. I was around 23. He raped me there. Well, forced sex where I knew if I fought him off I would lose my job. When we got back to the office he fired me. After that I did not have any way to get another job because he promised only the worse reference if I listed my job there. Moving on. As a young comedian, doing stand up in NY, I sat in the little booth with the manager of the club after my audition. He placed his hand on my upper thigh and asked if it would be alright to keep going. I said no, it wasn't alright. He told me I was too "long in the tooth" to be a comic and that my act wasn't feminine enough. After that I felt the brick wall was too hard to get either over or through and went back to college. Oh, and as a child I was molested by a close family member for years. so, um, you know? @johannaclear
24
Answer to the headline question--nope. Old Chinese proverb--When Little General stands to attention, Brain flies out the window.
5
Biology predisposes men to think of sex especially when they see something that triggers sexual thoughts. Some men think, because they are having these thoughts, they have a right to act on them. Many men, also have developed a predisposition to think women are inferior, and that leads to all kinds of bullying. What these men need to be taught (maybe through punishment if no other means works) is that we live in a civil society where rules of good conduct must be followed. And that...not every thought that comes into your head is valid and not every valid thought should be shared. An "evolved" human can control their thoughts to speak and act civilly. Additionally, although women have a right to dress any way they want (without breaking indecency laws) however they also bare responsibility. For instance, there are many female TV journalist who show cleavage or outfits with the shoulders cut out exposing their bare and beautiful shoulders. They have every right to dress that way...however...knowing how easily these things trigger men to think sexual thoughts, if it were me, I would not dress like that on TV. How can a man with these thoughts take you as a serious journalist if he is getting aroused because he can't help but have your cleavage screaming at him the entire time you are on his screen. There is much work to be done, it will take all of society and its systems to correct, and I don't expect it to happen in my lifetime.
8
Good for you. Most of these women do not get to manage their own TV image or even their office attire. Today's social etiquette has women dressing this way to join the conversation. I think it is a problem. It does send a mixed message which is inappropriate. But women who don't do this don't get hired. Or they are considered "gay." It is a total double standard.
2
MK says, " ... and I don't expect it to happen in my lifetime.'"
And, I don't expect IT to ever happen. IT is inherent in nature ... and made 'worse' by the styles and choices of our time.
There is much more provocation in these days than ever. Suffice to say it was not like 'this' when I was a teenager.
1
Am I the only one to notice that this headline seems to indict all men?
11
I'm sorry, but when virtually all women experience sexual harassment in their lifetimes, you shouldn't be splitting hairs about whether or not "all men" do it. Do you think there is just a handful of men running around the country raping and harassing women? No. It's a LOT of men. If you're a good one, great. Instead of complaining about guilt by association, do something about it, because too many men are complicit by saying and doing nothing.
2
Reform men? What a preposterous notion!
Man is perfect, made in the image of God. Women are an afterthought, purpose-created to serve man. You can read about it in the opening book of the Holy Bible. Read further to discover the God-ordained social organization that satisfies Man’s needs.
Man doesn’t need reform, but society needs reform to accommodate Man’s nature and needs. Man needs a large Biblical family consisting of several wives, as many as he desires and can afford to buy. Man needs the gratification of begetting children for his women to bear and rear. Man needs the constant titillation of concubines and comely maidservants and slave girls. Man needs uncontested power over his household.
Just kidding, of course! But isn’t that when it all started, at the beginning of a civilization founded on superstition and prejudice?
Man, in general, doesn’t need reforming but repulsive old men who believe wealth is power, position is privilege, and arrogance is sexual magnetism need harsh re-education. A woman who caters to senile male aberrations should be shamed as a prostitute. A woman who loudly resists it should be protected and rewarded with financial compensation.
Remember, shouting “rape” attracts attention!
4
AynRant - I agreed with much of your letter. But punishing women for not being able to stand up to a bully? And a woman who resists SHOULD BE protected?
That's reality in your world?
Perfect prose from the NYT religiously-correct Nanny State of Never Neverland. In short,men will not change until
A. Women are equal change partners.
Until Google and/or Gov Inc. succeeds in synthesizing and neutering the biological differences held within our human male and female roles this issue will remain.
Even the best efforts of the plastics industry to neuter males by polluting our human environment with artificial estrogen (California sperm counts are now down to 40%), testosterone levels are still too low in females rendering their equal ability to dominate that crucial first social interface held between the sexes as being sub par. That first leer, touch, kiss, grope, unwanted invite, sexual demand married or not, and powermongering entrapment- all lie within man world. If you truly wish to correct the global imbalance try more (testosterone fed) female initiative coupled with religious parental programming. Initiative institutionalization. Never going to happen.
Huffpost reads that only 25% of polled females have ever 'initiated' while 75% of males welcome that role reversal. Why? Until women become the initiators who deign to periodically cross that private myspace zone, suffer rejection, force the same wrong-taught encroachment mistakes, will NYT Ed board ever witness true gender "equality" in our society.
B. Vive la difference! Synthetic alien programmers go home!
2
Sex is better when human animals can both feel equally empowered to express their desire. This is just reality. Today's world is a power play.
1
Women need to unionize.
9
So many men never learn how to be gentle. It's all brawn. As a homosexual, I sometimes admire the male physique, but it can be dangerous to even _look_ at a man outside of safe "gay" places. So many men only know sex, and have never learned affection.
Of course even something as beautiful as affection is not appropriate in the workplace. There, courtesy and respect serve the same purpose.
2
Good job alienating half of the population with such an absurd headline. Great way to build consensus to move forward. Maybe your next editorial should be about how the fall of ISIS leaders is finally reforming the world’s muslim population.
7
If only the New York Times had followed its own advice on 'confronting harassers' instead of spiking a story on Weinstein in 2004 when he threatened to pull advertising (reported in Politico). NBC also spiked a story. He had many female journalists and well known feminists cover for him, including Tina Brown and Hillary Clinton. If anything, the lesson is we should reform the way the media and journalism works. All of these think pieces on the evils of harassment will let the powerful people who enabled Weinstein's reign of terror off the hook and will probably initiate a crackdown against men who ask women out for drinks after the plumbing supply company holiday party.
7
It's not going to change. I'm a "me-too-er", and a facet of my own situation that shocked me was that I got much more concern and anger expressed over what I'd been through from men than from women, including (or especially) my own mother - who is a very progressive woman, and girlfriends.
There is an important part of this discussion missing, though. We've heard from women who've been through it, and we've heard the usual and correct root of it, power, but what we never hear or talk about - and this is why I think it will continue - is that these men seem to really believe that they are flattering women when they behave this way. It seems to never enter their minds, no matter how repulsive the man may be (Ailes, Weinstein, O'Reilly) that the women would be anything other than thrilled and flattered to have bestowed upon them the privilege of being chosen by the powerful one. Perhaps we have to make clear that, not only is it unacceptable, women find it repulsive and we go home and vomit. It's not only the power struggle, guys, but the visceral repulsion of a grossout lech dragging you into their personal battle with their perverted sense of virility.
If I stole $50 from the same man every time I was in his presence, he'd fire me, accuse me of a crime, and think I was insane, and he'd be right. Sexual harassment is no different, except that I'd never get a clause in a contract promising impunity for my theft and extracting non-disclosure agreements from my victims.
53
Actually non-disclosure agreements commonly cover theft and embezzlement. Companies don’t want a thief publicly associated with their brand in a public civil or criminal case. So, they actually pay the bad actor to shut up and move along. It is shocking, but it’s true.
". . .it will continue - is that these men seem to really believe that they are flattering women when they behave this way."
I agree, but it works both ways. I work in the same department as my husband, and he has on more than one occasion encouraged me to flirt with my superiors to get along with them. Flatter them, dress more attractively for them. He's basing this on his own experience, as female colleagues used that approach with him and other men in the department. He just assumes that's what women do.
You're right. It's not going to change. We'd have to retrain all the males from birth and the grown men have created a culture that works to undo good, healthy training in boys. The men who perpetrate, and that includes many more than men wish to admit, believe they are innocent. I don't think they believe women like it. That's just another excuse. They like the feeling of power over women. I like your sentence about the visceral repulsion that women feel. Forty years after a man touched my neck inappropriately, I still feel that sense of nausea when I think of it. This is what men seek: the power to alarm and destabilize women however momentarily. It has nothing to do with sex. BTW, the man who did that to me is now a teacher with a title in my spiritual community, a Buddhist. Blech.
Does this qualify as "hate speech?" Or are there times when it's OK to blame a group for the behavior of a few?
14
Paul Daley, what is becoming shockingly evident is that it is NOT a few.
In every case in this article where it referred to men harassing women it qualified by saying "most" or "virtually all" etc. It also explicitly stated that harassment isn't exclusivly limited to female victims or male perpetrators. Yet here your are acting all victimized by a simple statement of statistical fact. Does the truth that most instances of harassment involve men harassing women somehow offend you? Are your "men's rights" being violated somehow? Do you need someone to protect you from the big bad truth?
Doubtless to more than a few men like yourself, this may qualify as "hate speech" -- but all that would change if you, or someone whom you cherished, were the one of the receiving end of such abusive behaviour.
1
"And so it came to pass that the armed prophets conquered, and the unarmed perished." - Machiavelli, paraphrased
Less "MeToo", and more" StrikeBack".
Is it possible to start by setting up a private registry of complaints, unburdened by the need for proof?
3
RE: “Women should dress more modestly. Throw out the décolletage and mini-skirts that invite attention.” And “a little more modesty on the part of women…” The cause is always the same. Women being attractive, tempting men. The solution is always the same. Women should change to make themselves less so.
I find it interesting that men never call from themselves to change what they believe what makes them attractive to women. We even had a presidential debate that featured one candidate speaking to his sexual prowess.
Since the President, as all as many others, claim that wealth and power attract woman and cause woman to “let you do anything” and that “women will throw themselves at you” it is high time to say that men need to more modest and that they should not:
1. Dress sharp. Or wear expensive watches or jewelry.
2. Take on a jaunty pose
3. Sport that 'too cool for you' haircut
4. Take their shirt off to show their build
5. Own a car that is designated a “chick magnet”. All get a minivan.
6. Display any swagger or overt wealth
7. And, certainly, no yachts or private planes like a gold plated 757s.
How does it feel? Unfair? What is sauce for the goose...
12
@Marie - love your list! #5 is great - don't own a car that is designated a "chick magnet". All get a minivan.
1
So for a man to get sexually harassed by a woman, he must display WEALTH -- watches, yachts, private planes, sports cars -- but for a WOMAN, it is her body or youth or good looks?
And what man OR WOMAN takes off their shirt in a business environment to "show off their build"?
Maybe you could get a better read if you were less obsessed with Hollywood and did some actual reporting, such as, how's all this playing out in the chicken processing plant? This story reads like the US magazine section, Stars like us, where they show Gwen Stefani buying vegan chicken tenders or Brad Pitt reading a book. Why would you think the travails of the beautiful people will reshape our culture? It's TV.
8
What needs reform is our educational system. Good science based sex education is needed starting in kindergarten. Predator education should be included from the beginning. Every child should know their bodies and minds are off limits to abuse!
9
What has the media has done to downgrade and even mock civility ?
If you are watching BBC news, you will listen to those who deliver the news
broadcasts which are respectful; and when you listen to US news, you will
hear crass and derogatory language....
The media in the US...has 'stooped to conquer' has allowed themselves to
be degraded to Tabloid News.
Tabloid News reports salacious news; and touts violence.
So the messenger has become not only mediocre ; the messengers of the
US daily news are become as perverted as the perversions they report on.
The Media has lost its way; become undignified; so with all due respect to
the present Editors of the NYTimes et al: I think a renaissance of the past
Editors might be the good knights whose exemplary reportage our current
journalists might try to follow.
In other words, it is worthwhile to understand the reason for "the pot
calling the kettle black'.....so examples of couth might set precedent.
3
Confused and dazed... I don't know. Men have been given a "Free Pass", "Get Out of Jail card" by the 25,000,000 women that voted for Donald Trump. Those 25,000,000 want to make sure their sisters keep being abused. And a good portion keep going to church, voluntarily, where they are treated as second class citizens.
8
You are stereotyping women who voted for Trump.
2
"Will Harvey Weinstein's Fall Finally Reform Men?"
Don't be silly.
4
This current. "Feel good" moment changes nothing.
1
In case my point wasn’t clear: you never have to go to a man’s hotel room for a “business meeting”, no matter what he says.
10
Frankly, if a FEMALE in power asked me (a woman) up to her hotel room for a "private meeting", I'd wonder what the heck was going on.
Sorry, but I do not believe that any adult woman over the age of 18 does not know what "come up to my hotel room" means. It is a solicitation for sex, not for your career or business ideas. DUH!
We will probably enter a period, of as much separation of the sexes in the work place as possible. That in turn will possibly not be as constructive as we would like to believe. Hollywood on the other hand is a common cesspool of occurrences that feeds its fan base. They love stories like Weinstein, and who divorced who after finding a new playmate. Reality is of course females entered en mass what has always been a mans world. To think that would be readily accepted is naive. Lets not set aside the fact many Physicians are females, many who want to be CEO's are, females are pilots, females are in politics. Men will simply have to back off and hope they don't come in close proximity.
1
Send a serious reporter to Columbia Business School and ask them about a faculty member with a history of abusing women. Just like Harvey, everyone knows about this too. There are 10,000 more Harvey stories out there and none of them has come to justice.
9
And many of those 10,000 stories involve liberal Democrats....involve supposedly "PC" institutions like universities and non-profits....involve female bosses and employees who are both male AND female....involve gays and lesbians as well as heterosexuals.
Money is power.
Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The key is disclosure. These predators are terrified of exposure, and confronting consequences at home as well as publicly. If no one kept the secret, workplace sexual abuse would cease.
The blowback for the victims is enormous. Too many men in the workplace collude by their knowing silence, and face much less of a price if they tell. Their protective closing of the ranks behind the abuser should end.
The key is disclosure. How about a confidential hot line to the NYT?
3
Sexual abuse happens every day to women--everywhere, when we least expect it. And from the least expected. On a bus in Jerusalem, an ultra religious man, for example, repeatedly pressed his parts against me... but having grown older-and been in similar circumstance before, l yelled, "He's touching me." Of course, as women up and down the bus looked up, he scooted away. My life-lesson for all women---IN ANY SITUATION:
if you remain silent , you agree.
SPEAK UP.
6
To an abuser....a SILENT victim implies to them consent. They think you like it too.
The best thing you can do is scream -- yell at the top of your lungs -- shove or push -- hit back if you can -- throw anything heavy you have access to -- RUN AWAY -- and above all else, TELL ON THEM.
Tell on them, even if it does not work or you don't get justice at first. ONLY when people tell on abusers, is there any hope of change.
I'm not sure men can be "reformed" regarding sexual harassment without reforms directed at our national embrace of wealth, power, privilege and violence. The human animal is defined by his or her culture, and the sexual aspect reflects what we condone and encourage in the broader picture. Limousine liberals are the biggest hypocrites, because the progressive cause has always championed women's rights. But its wealthiest and most influential proponents are no better than the arch conservatives keeping women down, if they don't see the petri dish in which their porcine behaviors flourish.
2
You provide no evidence that men do "virtually all" the sexual harassing.
Shame on you for claiming it without support.
In a world with deeply flawed people, most of whom work to live, rather than live to work, and for whom sex is part of living, change will come slowly, and there will always, unfortunately, be a significant amount of sexual harassment.
3
It may be naive to expect to change a grown-up man, immature and insecure as he may be, but used to abuse his position of power, into a respectful human being...and not a bully. What the current unmasking and shaming will due is prevent many sexual assaults but not it's elimination. What must occur is an awakening at home, while the boys are still pliable, to love or at least respect their sister(s), as the golden rule is applied. The current exposed abusers may have lived in a home where domestic abuse was ongoing, or absence of one of the parents, and the lack of solidarity experienced. If so, how can we expect these kids to give what they don't have? Let's remember that those respectful towards each other now, have always been that way, no doubt due to a loving environment they grep up in. Therapy for sex abusers is a joke, as it just teaches the culprit to accommodate better his appetites to conform to some lame excuse for the future. So, for now, we have to impose restrictive laws for power-hungry bullies, to disabuse the concept of 'cure'.
I can only speak for myself but: Men aren't all 'malformed' this way & needing to be 'reformed'!
There remain some of us who read about all this with complete astonishment.
3
A man who has lived around women for any significant portion of his life and has never witnessed the crushing impact on those women of the daily fact of normativized sexual harassment and sexualized abuses of power in the workplace, home, community and place of worship, who reads the flood of women's accounts of their experiences of being harassed and assaulted with "complete astonishment," can only have arrived at that shocked moment after a lifetime of willful ignorance.
If your eyes are being forced open now, you should be asking why they were so closed before.
If you're astonished, then you haven't been paying attention.
Clarification of 'astonishment':
I was trained young by feminists & activists about victimization, insensitivity & other abuse by the traditional patriarchy.
The existence of perverts, abusers, even vile 'locker-room talk' that many guys seem to think is acceptable is to me not.
But Weinstein? Cosby? Serial rapists in such high places, doing this stuff to such high-profile icons of the movie-star world, & expecting this to not catch up with them, & successfully evading exposure for decades?? That's truly astonishing.
Further astonishing is the idea that any of this actually crosses men's minds, especially such successful men.
I've actually been an employer, & no we don't all even have the capacity to think this way, it's just completely outside my personal lexicon of behaviorism, but then so is lynching.
The Catholic sex abuse has gone on for likely as long as the Church itself, but not being Catholic or a churcher, it's not anywhere near me. Some who trusted in priests must have been astonished.
While I have been close to women victims of abuse & certainly exposed to their traumatized scars, I'll admit to avoiding sexists, racists, bigots of all kinds, including those 'locker-room' talkers.
Being sort of 'bigoted against bigots' doesn't necessarily mean wilful blindness, I see them everywhere & steer clear if at all possible.
I'm not convinced bigots & abusers can really be reformed, better train them young. But I can't even imagine having impulses like Weinstein.
1
Interestingly, my experience has been that men raised in more gender-egalitarian cultures may, at times, act like a bro, but typically they are shocked and offended when they observe the boldness of some American men's OUTRAGEOUS behavior. So, I have HOPE that if real detrimental consequences are in place and are implemented each time men's sense of entitlement overcomes their other senses, the behavior will change.
A generation ago Fatal Attraction (1987) kept the average man in his place.
Then, AFTER senators belittled Anita Hill in 1991 and many wrote off Bill Clinton's extramarital activities as "boys will be boys", the Bubba culture started. A decade later, after many men struggling to achieve evolved from blingy Bubba into the Bro culture and the romanticism by men of Mad Men's depiction of the 1960s NYC and sexual revolution was wide-spread, influencing many AMERICAN men aspired to be like Larry Ellison and Don Draper.
Once media depicts businesses and their owners going bankrupt due to one harassment claim, families torn apart due to rape victims' PTSD, and other typical outcomes in the frequency that they occur (i.e., DAILY!!!), maybe, just maybe, harassers would use better judgement. If real peoples' names were publicized and companies were truly at-risk if they hired and renewed contracts with known abusers those companies could be held liable and most would be reluctant to take such a risk.
Problem is that abused must & cannot wait for power to speak up.
Imagine a headline on an editorial: "Will Osama Bin Laden's Fall Finally Reform Muslims." Or an editorial that said, in stopping terrorism, "the most lasting change will have to come from muslims." The proud liberals on the New York Times editorial board would be overflowing with outrage, screaming that you can't blame all Muslims for the actions of some bad ones.
But the Times and so many other commentators seem to have no such problem with doing the same thing with men when it comes to sexual harassment. "Men" don't need to be reformed. Change does not have to come from "men." It is men who harass who need to change. Men who do not harass have no more responsibility than women who do not harass.
9
Why do you and so many other commentators here make the same mistake in misreading "men" as "all men" ??
I've experienced sexual harassment since my first summer job as a waitress--about 45 years ago. Learning to smile and accept the boss's gropes were part of job training--job training that followed me and most women I know throughout their years of existence-not just at work. Because sexual harassment isn't limited to the work environment. It occurs everywhere. Women need the ability to control what happens to their bodies --this means having total reproductive rights control and having the ability to stop the mental and emotional abuse that they are forced to suffer due to inferior wages, verbal abuse, etc etc This means women need to be in political office and enact powerful laws that get rid of all forms of gender inequality. We need harsh consequences---jail sentences, huge fines. These disgusting men, who are everywhere, are serial offenders and they are committing crimes that go way beyond psychological warfare.
It is also important for women to force a change in our male-dominated advertising and media culture. I'm sick of ads and movies and tv shows that demean women--portraying them as sexual objects or stupid. What kind of message does this send to society and the next generation? The media is part of the perpetual abuse machine. This means boycotts. We need to target particularly products that finance/support this anti-female message. We need to kick these companies in their bottom line.
81
Get a group of women together and it will be 100% of them that were sexually harassed. Not once but many times. Mine started at 12 years old when my riding instructor kissed me full on the mouth. I was in such shock that it took me days to get over that first transgression. I came from a very conservative family, and neither of my parents had ever kissed me on the mouth. The man was a known pedophile but no one did anything about him. In those days it wasn't discussed. My mother however, took my sister, me, and our horses elsewhere.
Cue to when I was 20 years old and working on a ranch in WY. The owner expected to have sex with all his employees, and he only employed girls. None were over 22. I escaped him but he pawed me plenty of times.
I could tell you twenty other stories. Many much more egregious than those two. I'm not unique.
1
Men need protection from women like KC and those 44 others who like her comment.
She claims that “disgusting men” are “everywhere”. It’s not just one or two men who have abused her, but rather a 45 year continuous stream of groping sex crazed males who she wants fined and jailed.
Maybe she’s had some bad experiences, but in my opinion KC and women of her ilk are a danger to all normal men.
If a woman makes a false accusation (even if she is delusional) it is she who should be fined and jailed, and I think that men’s rights groups should lobby hard for such legislation.
1
What about all the TV shows, particularly situation comedies, that characterize men as incompetent, clueless, doofuses? Is that okay with you? It's a two-way street.
Hating everyone of the opposite sex and painting them all in a negative light solves no problems, but simply further divides our society. So you think you've been abused by some men, but how many men have come in contact with in your life that said or did nothing abusive? Has any man ever done something nice or helpful for you?
Shameful headline. This isn’t a “man” problem, any more than illegal immigration is a “Mexican” problem, or racism is a “white” problem. Though indeed a clear minority of cases, women also engage in sexual assault.
This is instead a human problem, and perpetrators need not be classified by gender, any more than race or religion, and it’s shameful for the Times editorial board to engage in the practice of sensational and sexist headlines at the expense of intellectual integrity.
17
Why is anyone worrying about whether being 'outed' will reform men?
What'll stop this is when men have something important to lose - their job or their family or their reputation - not when they're 'reformed.' Mark Halperin has lost million$ now that his Showtime show, HBO movie & book deal are kaput. But he had a 20 yr run tormenting & terrorizing women while holding positions of power & privilege.
What I want to know is if all the women - who knows how many - who've been sexually assaulted, harassed or groped by Donald Trump were to speak out in
public now - would it matter? The dozen women who told their stories about Trump in 2016 were instantly smeared by right wing media & Trump himself who branded them all 'liars' & threatened retaliation.
But. We all know now Trump is one of history's biggest liars. He lies constantly about everything! Now that that's been established without a doubt - If all the women he's harassed spoke out now - & if they were believed & supported by millions of us (& millions believed those women who spoke up in 2016) - would that matter now?
Perhaps Trump can't be forced from office or even shamed but I believe millions of women cringe or want to vomit every time we see his face. Will the women Trump has assaulted all come out now if millions of people who know Trump's a liar will back them up if they speak out?
The least women want is to have the scale of Trump's depravity & crimes against women made public in front of the world.
9
As long as the US has a happily unapologetic molester and rapist as president, along with a Republican Party that protects his every perversion, there won't be any change. Republicans clearly believe women are chattel, just as it says in the Bible. And Trump, along with his handmaid Pence, are determined to make our nation "Christian" with white males always in charge (violently if necessary), the Constitution reduced to a list of suggestions, and un-Christian sex a felony.
Trump, as we know from his first wife's divorce deposition, has beaten, raped and humiliated women for his own pleasure and/or spite. Those are the "values" that Trump's Republican Party now stands for.
8
David: whatever you think of Trump politically....many people LIE during divorce proceedings (or exaggerate wildly) out of hurt, rejection, jealousy, pain and anger. They also lie to get a better position with the judge, for things like child support, custody, alimony.
You simply cannot take such allegations at face value. Apparently Ivana and The Donald get along quite well today, and he has supported her financially all these years since they split.
She also said he had a copy of "Mein Kampf" on his nightstand! come on! they had a bitter, public divorce and were bashing one another.
There is also no evidence in her depositions that Trump RAPED or beat anyone. She alleged he had raped HER within their marriage, but later retracted that allegation.
In our legal system, a person is not guilty until they have been judged and tried and CONVICTED by a jury of their peers.
there will be less opportunities for women in the work force.
2
Only if men are still in charge.
1
Why is this argument never going to work? Because women are just as cruel as men. I've seen sexual politics in almost every workplace I have been in and, as often as not, women were willing participants. If you're going to castigate men -- and their behavior here is despicable -- what do you say to the women who willingly slept their way into job or promotion over someone else (many times a woman) who probably deserved it more?
8
Someone is going to make a lot of money with the "GoGirl", the soon to be invented piece of jewelry/body cam. That should serve as a deterrent.
5
The answer is no. Have two decades of public awareness and tweaking the laws on domestic violence cut down the incidence of it. Not really. Media hype can't change centuries of testosterone poisoning. You would think that decades of feminist advocacy would have brought about a population more enlightened. And with tweetybird our testosterone poisoned leader getting off scott free for his sins is there even hope? When a woman press secretary stands up and enables him through outright lies?
3
It sounds like everyone wants to be a part of a union, where you can't be fired without a courtroom battle and a settlement.
Sexual harassment allegations have been doled out like candy for the past thirty years, so this Weinstein guy isn't going to cause change. If you just want males to not have sex anymore, look at our birthrate. You are accomplishing this and sexual harassment will be a thing of the past, not to worry. The problem with your grand idea is two-fold: most allegations don't have evidence and are tantamount to slander, and that in our legal system it is cheaper to settle rather than hear a full criminal case and clear your name.
3
The reform of men will begin with the reform of the women abused by them. It must begin with a firm "No!".
Step Two is to leave the room immediately if Step One doesn't work.
Step Three is to inform the police as soon as possible.
Do not believe that sick, preying men will ever be reformed. They need to wear a red R on their trousers that stands for rapist.
Yes, these steps Draconian. But these are Draconian times.
3
These men want, crave, and are addicted to power. They will lie, defame, and destroy their accusers. They will sacrifice their marriages, family life, and reputation to obtain and keep that power. And they are willing to pay huge sums of money to overcome anything that stands in the way of that power. At no time do these me stop, consider what they are doing, and say to themselves "I have to stop. Sooner or later I will get caught and pay a huge price." They, I really believe, are delusional. They think they haven't done any wrong and their accusers are all gold diggers. So the absolutely first place to start is for women to stand up. They will pay a price at first. Do as Trump says : find another job. But make sure you have documentation to what has happened and tell people why you are leaving. Anyone who asks: co-workers, the customers, etc. Imagine if every actress harassed and mistreated by Weinstein said at the time: "Forget it. I'll take my chances somewhere else." And when you apply for a new job, say why you left the old one. Easy for me to say. Hard to do? Very. But if the culture of excusing and enabling ended, imagine what would happen. Finally: the good old boy network in Congress and your state house and the White House needs to be addressed at the ballot box. And the women who are willing to look the other way and vote anyway for abusers to get something in return need to be called and shamed. And forced to wear the Scarlet DLT.
"Will Harvey Weinstein's Fall...?"
What silly rhetoric is this?
Did the real estate/banking crash of '07-'08 reform business practices?
Did Newtown lead to the end of mass shootings?
Did the in-your-face venality of Martin Shkreli halt abuses by Big Pharma?
Did Nixon prevent Trump?
2
I care about what Grover Cleveland, Woodrow Wilson, Warren Harding, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, William Clinton and Donald Trump did before and during theiroccupation of the Oval Office of my White House.
Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby do not represent nor speak for me. Hollywood swinging is no concern of mine. Beyond the moral degeneracy and possible criminal conduct and the salacious nature it is all fantastic prurient entertainment.
Ronnie and Nancy Reagan were the last media entertainers before Donald and Melania Trump showed up.in my White House.
2
While you focus on Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein and Bill O'Riley, there is an individual occupying the White House who has admitted his own perverted proclivities toward women and yet the same standards and norms don't seem to apply. It seems there are two Americas when it comes to trump sexual assaults.
Here's a thought I haven't seen: a lot of this has to do with America's weak whistleblower protections and general slanting of the workplace in favor of the employer (and thus management).
Think about it: if you had evidence your boss was stealing money from the company, how many would report it? Engaging in insider trading? Lying to clients or customers? What if your boss was a nasty racist/sexist and abused the janitorial staff with slurs?
So why should sexual harassment be any different?
1
Much good in this column. I do take issue with the final thought, that boys should be raised to understand why sexual harassment is not good. No, boys should be raised to keep their hands off girls. They should be raised to speak respectfully to girls and women. They should be raised to behave.
They’ll figure out why on their own.
2
Most boys are raised that way, although it takes a bit of training and feedback for some. It's the moral failures that perpetuate this situation. And the women who go along with them to advance their careers aren't helping things either.
Don't be ridiculous. Do you really think Weinstein's problem was that he didn't know it was wrong, and if only he'd been told that when he was young all of this would have been avoided? Of course he knew it was wrong. That's why he did it. He enjoyed being transgressive, he enjoyed being a thug in other words, probably more than he enjoyed the sexual gratification.
He was able to get away with it for the obvious reason, that he was in an industry in which the power imbalance was especially acute, with dozens or maybe hundreds of young, generally inexperienced women for every miserable entry-level position, and this in a field to which entry is primarily based on sexual attractiveness. The results are exactly what you'd expect. Weinstein may have been one of the worst, but he was far from being the first and he will definitely not be the last, not as long as these fundamentals remain.
2
I see all the stories about past bad behavior of famous people and apologies for behavior from years ago. Yet one of the most famous people going is on tape bragging about groping women and all I hear is crickets. . . . Why is Donald Trump not being called out? Why is not there a line of lawyers waiting outside court to sue him? Why is the press strangely quite on the whole issue? Do they take on only the semi-powerful and leave the truly powerful alone?
This is an issue where his own words will hang him and there is nothing but the sound of silence. . . . . Things that make you go Hmmmm!!??
No, men will not change, they will seek sex from women whenever they can get away with it. If is NOF "about power and money", it simply and fundamentally is about sexual gratification.
1
The only chance for change is to stop using women's bodies and sexuality in every TV, movie and/or advertising campaign. No more bikini clad women in beer commercials, no more ring girls in MMA fights, no more cheerleaders, no more dancing girls in rap videos, no more beauty contests- stop planting those [media driven] seeds and possibly there's hope.
4
" how do we ensure that progress filters down to average American workplaces, where sexual harassment occurs all the time but rarely gets media attention? The answer is part cultural...."
We can start by ceasing to objectify woman for power and/or financial gain and we can start with advertising, advertising that even the NY Times accepts. If the comments section allowed for uploads I could provide numerous screen shots from the NY Times of adds that use the objectification of women to sell stuff.
Even this editorial had one.
3
Advertising is not the reason men are attracted to women. It is not the reason powerful people exploit those with less power either. The first caveman to organize his tribe, brain his competition, and then grab the most attractive women never saw an ad.
"One can hope..." Nope.
In the era of Trump, it's still a man's world, and it's a man's world in which hostility towards older women is expressed more openly -- the other side of this ugly dynamic in which women are considered ornamental and utilitarian, until they are not.
When it's clear that a younger male employee doesn't want an older woman supervisor (too much like his mom, or his 5th grade teacher) telling him what to do, we call that being HIllaryed. The disrespect is open and the progress is minimal. You can't "lean in" if someone's got his boot on your throat.
4
There is definitely a difference in style between men and women bosses. Male bosses may tell the employee what to do, but leave it up to the employee to figure out the best way to get the work done. They're not supportive, but they give you freedom to make mistakes and learn by experience. If you screw up, then they'll get rid of you and hire someone else - nothing personal.
Responsible? How about the law? These men have to be threatened with court and jail. Put them in jail. Sexual assault should be rewarded by a label of "sexual predator" and come with warnings where ever these men go. Sexual abuse is a crime, this is not some kind of lack of societal politeness. By the way, why hasn't Harvey Weinstein been arrested? Arresting these criminals is step one. These are gender crimes. Hate Crimes.
2
Really? So the man pleads not guilty, and ruthless lawyers grill the 'victim' in an open courtroom, as dozens of grinning spectators look on?
That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.....
Punishment? Sure. Bad behavior should be punished. But what about the women who give them what they want in exchange for advancement. What are you going to take away from them?
HW is but one domino.
The WH has another.
1
"Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?" In a word? Doubtful.
With a President who dabbles in misogyny and is supported by ultra-right wing Christian conservatives - well, there goes one line of defense. And when corporations - in the interests of their bottom line - continue to employ rainmakers/serial sexual predators like O'Reilly and Weinstein - well, there goes another. And when elected members of The Congress like Tim Murphy embrace 'Do as I say and not as I do...' oh ho hum - there goes another. And when TV Networks ignore abusive behavior by the likes of Mark Halperin, Bill Cosby et al., what chance is there really of reform? It's not only the predators themselves we have to worry about - it's also the tacit acceptance by established institutions of these scoundrels where the problem lies.
1
We are suppoed to know or believe that - to put it briefly - we have "risen up from apes". Observing the primates (on many other animals which whom we share the environment and this Blue Planet ) we often see physical force present in sexual intercourse and it is not at all clear to what degree it is always of frequently enough agreeable to both parties, a female and a male.
The Mother Evolution spent untold thousands upon thousands of years to made things working perfectly, i.e. as they do. That certainly includes (for continuity of life essential) act of procreation, even while these days in some areas of the world it become more or less an act of recreation. Thus bothy female and male of the species also here apply their perfected evolutionary skills and tactics of survival.
While, as humankind underwent its civilization process, some behavior became undesirable and even unacceptable, such as violence and especially physical violence as a tool to obtain, one wonders if a "dirty joke" a transgression that President Bush Sr. has been now accused of committing while sitting on a wheel chair during a photo opportunity, qualifies as criminal (or just civil) law offense or a basis for demanding an apology.
Then also, a "dirty" joke, earning such label just because the recipient might judge it "insensitive" joke (as all jokes, by their very nature a psychological relief valve, generally work), i.e. not any violent action is now getting, "micro-aggression" label at minimum.
As much as it's needed, male behavior will never change. It doesn't matter whether the male is rich or poor, influential or not, don't hold your breath in the hope that male behavior will change for the better.
That said, don't let this opposition be today's fad. All rational humans, male and female, must be able to live free of abuse.
2
It's about power more than gender. So the answer is no whether it's a man or woman in a position with lots of power.
Finding a way to make people in power more accountable would help.
Transparency in salaries, and information, etc. Non disclosure agreements should be restricted.
1
Unfortunately the tide may turn in the wrong direction. Out of fear of lawsuits...deserved or not...men in authority may simply start hiring fewer women.
6
I didn't think of this possibility. UGH.
I always believed Anita Hill.
13
I have never groped, objectified, insulted, or made unwelcome advances toward a woman. I have been married for forty-six to my wonderful wife. Still, I feel a collective guilt for everything I've read about women and this issue. I don't know what to do; I don't what to say. I'm not sure I can get past it.
3
Just be more open and friendly to females, if they trust you, they'll seek your assistance and input. And you'll actually get a lot more advice from them on: Relationships, your +s amd -s, how to dress, too much nose/ear hair, your appearance,..
I knew/known about this stuff because: 1. I talk too much:) 2. I've had many girlfriends. 3. Even MORE Females that only wanted to be my friend (married, boyfriend, smart enough to only want my friendship:))
It starts with high school and college sports hero worship, fraternities, and continues into the higher paid white collar world. Too many young men are groomed from an early age with a sense of entitlement.
3
Not quite Jill,
That dude (not always a dude BTW) that was a (Bully) Creep in the 3rd Grade, once Puberty Enhanced his Creepyness,...he doesn't have to be Jock, Go to College (Frat), and he doesn't have to make a lotta $$s.
Only the Creepy(Ness) Factor is the Constant.
Not that your example(s) isn't true but it's more of an Enabling Symptom than the Disease itself.
Boys are demonised and discriminated against at school, not filled with a sense of entitlement. Boys are told from an early age that the games they like, the stories they like, and their style of play is not welcome at school.
Studies in most major Western countries have found that teachers mark boys down, systematically. When boys' test results are sent to external markers, with names removed, their marks go up. The same is not true for girls, who are correctly marked by their teachers and who are also protected from the consequences of failure when they perform badly. Boys are also punished more harshly: if a boy and a girl commit the same offence, the boy will be punished harder.
If anyone is filled with a sense of entitlement from an early age, it's girls.
1
Over the past couple of weeks, I've watched numerous famous women come forward to detail the crimes of serial predator Harvey Weinstein. These women have little in common then those women who depend on their job to support themselves and their children. Anyone who works in a company, public or private, knows that there is no safe place to go to report sexual harassment. Human Resources is the only place to go and they exist to protect the employer, not the employee.
When employers truly take sexual harassment seriously, then things will change for the better.
4
"When employers truly take sexual harassment seriously, then things will change for the better."
I would offer instead: They _may_ change for the better. History has indeed shown that it is possible to effect a major change in our tolerance of this and other aggressive/violent trends: Racial prejudice, homophobia, anti-Semitism, to name a few. These have all been marginalized, to some extent.
But I don't think for a minute that we will ever truly eradicate these evil tendencies. It is postulated by the Jewish tradition that everyone, without exception, has a "tendency toward good" and a "tendency toward evil" ("yetzer ha-tov" and "yetzer ha-ra"). We've seen during this current administration that evil forces are always waiting in the wings for an opportunity to charge back.
As Wendell Phillips said: “Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." (1852, paraphrasing John Philpot Curran, 1790).
I am a 75 year old clinical psychologist and every time I read articles on this topic, I find it hard not to return to two memories of my years in graduate school. I was a married women in my mid twenties. Both my masters and my doctoral adviser, without any encouragement, approached me for sexual favors.
I took immediate measures to draw the line, but I was still worried that they would take measures to harm my academic progress in retaliation, so I did not report it to the head of the psychology department.
This still bothers me to this day. The fact that two well regarded men attempted this, leads me to wonder how prevalent this is even at this time.
8
In the military, reporting a rape or sexual harassment can ruin your career. Most Americans assume that our service members, if raped, have access to a fair system of justice. But in the military, the rapist’s commander, not a legally trained prosecutor, has the power to decide if a case will go to trial or what the charges will be. The commander also picks the jury. The current military justice system is not fair. It is time to reform the military justice system. We cannot keep putting our military service members in a position where commanders, who are not legally trained, hold the keys to justice. Congress must enact laws to establish a military justice system that operates outside the accused’s chain of command. The boss of your rapist should not decide whether to investigate and prosecute your rape, and should not have the power to select the jury. It’s un-American. Male and female rape and sexual harassment are currently an "occupational hazard" that undermines the strength of the United States military .
6
Reform men? Sorry, men are biologically programmed to chase women. This isn't going to change unless you tinker with the DNA. What we have seen in the media is the public shaming of men who have gone on the dark side. The dark side is not in any way acceptable but psychopathology, which is what this is, is also part of our biology and social ecology. We can put men like this in treatment or make them pay millions in compensation but let us have a dose of realism here, men, young and old, rich and poor, are going to do this.
We shouldn't ignore it or tolerate it, but we men are going to desire women in both healthy and pathological ways. There will be and should be consequences. But will men reform? On the margins yes. But every day and indeed every hour of every day, more male babies are born. And no matter how well they are raised, a few are only to do bad things and all of those who desire women are going to chase them, in some cases, all the time.
1
It's OK to think about it -- and not OK to act on it. Some men don't get this, or can't help it and so far, society has let them off the hook. That is what needs to change. Not men's basic nature.
People are taught to control their various urges all the time. They can be taught to control the urge to sexually harass women - or pay the price.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. This is like saying "women are programmed to have babies." Are men not smart or strong enough to restrain themselves from such basic primal needs? You are discrediting men in a way that even I as a woman find offensive. What you describe makes all men sound like Neanderthals, unable to use reason, common sense and restraint.
1
Are men programmed to rape women? Chasing women, raping, and/or sexual harassment aren't one in the same. The fact that you seem to think these differences are some how entwined ("the dark side")...disturbing but not surprising.
Mr. Weinstein bullied and pushed himself onto women who demurred his sexual advances. Mr. Weinstein wasn't chasing women, he used his check book, his power, his physical presence to intimidate and push women into performing sexual acts. Mr. Weinstein is a sexual deviant, a rapist. Period.
I haven't met many girls and women who don't have an experience with men exposing themselves, touching, or inappropriate sexual advances towards them. This leads me to believe these men aren't exceptions, they're the rule. That's why this lowlife behaviour continues...
Nothing is ever going to change -- about guns, the role of religion in our culture, climate, equal opportunity and equal pay.
It's only going to get a lot worse.
The big money won out, big time.
3
"Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?"
I wouldn't count on it!
In 1978, my boss expected me to become his mistress. This was in addition to daily sexual harassment in a workplace of 5,000 men and 50 women. Playboy magazine at my workstation for a start every morning. At that time, there was no person or place to report or complain. The union representatives were dominated by men who engaged in the same behavior. The male labor organizers who claimed to be feminists were not interested in hearing or helping. I am angered and saddened to learn not much has changed, but relieved that the Women's March in Washington opened a tidal wave of protest and exposure. K. Hale
5
Without advocating violence, it's possible to note Huck Finn's prediction as to what might reform his father.
There is too much generalized discussion about "men" as if every man who ever entered the workplace where women are employed has engaged in harassment. This is mainly a problem of some men and, in my mind, those who are like Bill O'Reilly are rather pathetic losers preying on women because they enjoy their power to do what they want. There is also likely a vast generational difference. The older guys, some of them, missed out on the necessary education and stupidly thought they could get away with it while most younger men are aware of the boundaries. Plus, some of these men committing assaultive acts lack complete mental balance and we don't blame the whole society every time someone mentally ill transgresses.
Two generations ago, most professional and other work sites were primarily segregated by sex, many males, few females. Almost overnight in the 1970s and '80s, an entire generation of women went to work. That was a huge change and let's at least admit that it takes time, and effort, to adjust to such major social shift (in the UK, France and other nations, much of the older ways still prevail and, in many cases, "fooling around" on the job is still seen as acceptable).
Sexual drives are the second most powerful, persistent needs in humans after survival and food. In some ways, those drives are a lurking beast that people often struggle to manage in socially acceptable ways. Society and attitudes can and must change, but the beast will not go away.
4
but the beast can be tamed, or not allowed to mix in respectable society.
Linda L, I don't take your comment as intentionally provocative, but some of the public discussion on these and other issues is trending awfully close to the idea of outlawing males. Using "beast", by the way, I was not referring to men generally or even to the overly aggressive types, I was using that as a metaphor for drives than can not be easily tamed.
"It's a man's world". I grew up hearing these words and believed them to be a "tongue in cheek" expression, peppered with a bit of sarcasm.
As a female member of the workforce in which men own, and continue to own the top seat in a hierarchical organization, I learned at a young age, "many a true word is spoken in jest."
I have been a victim of sexual harassment. Honestly, my 'knee-jerk' reaction, the very first image that came to mind was a Neanderthal man pounding his chest, howling with exhilaration for his sexual triumph.
Sexual harassment does not always mean a nonconsensual, physical act of intrusion against a woman. There are insidious words and/or actions of sexual harassment women are subject to each and every day.
The unconscionable and dark acts of sexual harassment performed by Weinsteins, Price, Cosby, Ailes, O'Reilly ,……. of the world are being forced out the woodwork where they formally hide.
This is far from being over. Keep this conversation front and center, sharing the stories of the brave woman stepping forward with their stories. This is a conduit of a safe haven for others to speak out, and there is great power in the voices of many.
This must evolve from the fear of being caught to an end of such exploitation.
2
Why is the focus here just on workplace abuse? Women are groped and demeaned at parties, weddings, on the street, in cars, in the doctor's office and every other place you can think of. What are we going to do about that?
3
The answer to your question is no, Weinstein's fall won't reform men, if by that it will keep them from sexually harassing women. I also do not agree entirely with the premise that sexual harassment is not about sex. Yes it is about power. But it is also about sex. Many men look at women as sex objects. This is so ingrained in our culture that it is hard for boys and men to avoid considering them sex objects. Especially with the easy availability of pornography and its increased acceptability in our culture, this problem will not go away. The Mad Men era has not gone away...it is just not as blatant as it was before.
Another side of this issue for women in the workplace is what does this objectification mean for female workers who are not considered sexually desirable? How many do not get hired at all because they do not meet the male standard of beauty or sexual attractiveness? Certainly this is the case in the film industry. But how true is it of high tech or finance?
Women are window dressing for men. Objects. Men want to have sex with them...and use their power to do so. It is not just about the power. It is also about perversion and general disrespect for women as human beings.
2
I don't want to be a cynic, but I've heard this song before. When there is a serious conversation about gender equality, as has happened in other places, I will believe it. A narrative of salacious men and innocent women, a vastly disproportionate number of the men Black, Jewish, Conservative or otherwise outsiders in the mainstream society, is not such a conversation. Not yet.
"Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?"
That's a laugh. Did Newtown "finally" reform gun control? Will Vegas?
No, sadly this is simply graphic gratuitous news. It's like rubbernecking: we can't help but stare at the damage. We'll get bored and move on. Gratuitous sex will remain in the movies, tv and especially video games -- always married to gratuitous violence unfortunately. It's what sells and what drives our more primal, darker instincts .
Nothing will change.Outrageous behavior will modify over
time to more subtle methods as promoted by Roger Ailes.
Watch the women on FOX news to understand how they
dress and the art of cosmetics are used.If you see a women over 40, it is a
a rare event. The "casting couch" will change but not disappear. Well, women
in Saudi Arabia can now drive, so anything is possible.
1
Perhaps the real problem is allowing Men to leave the house, and seek outside employment. Just saying.
9
Reform is a big word. Reform to what? More aptly the work should be done to "reshape" the most enduring, and, too often, the most fraught and disrespectful of human interactions--between men and women. We have only had rapes (from Helen in Troy, to ISIS today), and abuses, and domination of various kinds to learn from in our history books, as we learn to be adults in this world.
The world's religions, in the main, have codified woman as a servant to man to the point where the amazing pope Francis in Rome can kiss the feet of a beggar, but can't let women become empowered as priests. And there are lots of very decent religious men and women in this country who subscribe to this hierarchy, and for whom "reforming men" may well sound like 'treading one me'.
What our society should be like is a very open question and no one should believe they can answer this for anyone but themselves. But hopefully, if guided seriously and truly openly this moment can help everyone begin to look together for that society. At the very least it should be one in which women don't ever feel degraded or are harmed because of a man's sense of entitlement.
But getting the workplace fixed doesn't get to the heart of figuring out how a society can live with itself, when some its citizens believe in a hierarchy of men and women that others feel is, in itself, degrading .
« Sexual-harassment culture is tied directly to the economics of the workplace. «
It’s certainly expressed there, but we know it’s tied to many forms of power in many different contexts.
While predatory behavior is a serious problem in itself, it’s also symptomatic of deep sociocultural deficiencies -— we have to get serious and be willing to face the breadth of true structural change or this opportunity will be nothing more than a fad.
2
The highest compliments that a sexual harasser can pay to his target are a) she's a good sport and b) she gives as good as she gets. He treats it as an acceptable game in which the woman is expected to play with alacrity and enthusiasm.
In the military, reporting a rape or sexual harassment can ruin your career. Most Americans assume that our service members, if raped, have access to a fair system of justice. But in the military, the rapist’s commander, not a legally trained prosecutor, has the power to decide if a case will go to trial or what the charges will be. The commander also picks the jury. The current military justice system is not fair.
It is time to reform the military justice system. We cannot keep putting our military service members in a position where commanders, who are not legally trained, hold the keys to justice. Congress must enact laws to establish a military justice system that operates outside the accused’s chain of command. The boss of your rapist should not decide whether to investigate and prosecute your rape, and should not have the power to select the jury. It’s un-American.
Male and female rape and sexual harassment are currently an "occupational hazard" that undermines the strength of the United States military.
2
Any chance readers noticed that black is used to represent the looming, threatening man and the color white to represent the vulnerable woman? Even the people's ankles are dark and light.
I simply cannot fathom how the artist cannot notice this before publishing.
In which case, the image begs the question -- was it intentional? Is there some kind of point about race being made here? The possibility that something so obvious was unintentional seems extremely remote.
The two examples in the article are of black-on-black harassment and white-on-white harassment. What was the point of this image other than to reinforce stereotypes?
2
As long as the advice from 1600 Penn. Ave .is that you can do anything to them if you're a star, why would anyone expect anything substantive to change ?
Perhaps some Democratic donors and some journalists who didn't play ball with the White House may get exposed, but as for a change in actual culture when the man in charge is calling 16 accusers liars and the press is afraid to print their stories in fear of losing access or worse ?
Don't count on it.
1
Maybe the fall of Bill Clinton AND Donald Trump would reform men but as long as there are women and men who make exceptions for Bill and Don this will only be a Hollywood extravaganza. Most ordinary Americans don't even know who Weinstein is.
1
"Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?"
You've got to be joking...Not a chance. It hasn't happened before and it won't happen here.
Power corrupts and if we believe in true equality, women in power can be as evil as men. It is individuals who commit crimes, not entire genders. Please stop assuming all men fit in a single category. Women also do horrendous things which have terrible ramifications upon their victims.
It is time for our country to move away from the labels and identity obsession. Treat everyone as a unique human being. When someone commits a crime, call the police. When someone does something you don't like, tell them. Nobody should be ashamed to speak up when wronged. We are all responsible for setting boundaries, keeping ourselves safe, and teaching others by role modeling proper behavior. Empowerment of the individual for the good of all is the goal, regardless of their sex.
Now there are lots of real problems in this world, let's get to work solving them one by one rather than going on group witch hunts.
"This may turn out to be the year when the tide finally turned on sexual harassment."., they say the same thing about gun control after each mass murder incident. The appropriate response is "wanna bet on it?"
Your excellent editorial on sexual harassment is marred by one phrase: "...there would be fewer of these settlements, which can be good for individual women..." I wonder if any financial settlement can be an satisfactory compensation for sexual harassment, particularly rape. And, though I am sure the Editorial Staff did not mean that a woman would intentionally allow herself to be sexually harassed by a man so as to be financially rewarded, that is the first interpretation that came to my mind when I read the word "good". It would have been better to have written that phrase more thoughtfully by focusing on the punishing effect of such settlements on male perpetrators of sexual harassment.
1
One issue not being discussed; men can report what they see, but unless the targets/victims do something the reports go nowhere! I know this, have experienced it at 3 different employers. Being a witness to harassment carries no weight unless a real crime has been committed, and/or the employer being harassed presses charges. Which, regretfully, most women, as well as men, simply do not want to do. The fear of being labeled a trouble-maker, or a turn-coat if you're male, is powerful.
And even if its pursued, and the creep gets fired, or transferred...nothing follows him!
The system is rigged in favor of the creeps! Not only procedurally, but in the excuse making apparatus that permeates Human Resources Depts everywhere. Where HR is more concerned about nonsense duties then real issues out on the floors and cubicle farms. HR would rather spend their time planning "moral building" events, that involve junk food, or silly decorations for Halloween, etc, then dealing with the things that are important and would actually build real moral! Like getting rid of what they call the "Harmless Guys" who harass and spend their days hitting on female coworkers.
If the Come-on guy is good-looking, affable, and well-liked...forget it! HR might hands him permission to harass!!! "Okay, Mr. Shemar Moore, Brad Pitt look-alike, who always brings us pastries...here's your permission slip to harass."
Its the system of do-nothing, at the highest levels of Human Resources that needs fixing!
Judge Ginsburg made a great point in her dissent, but she, like this author and most discussing this issue misses another. Sexual harassment at the workplace is NOT ALL ABOUT supervisors. A great deal of the harassment comes from co-workers who are equal/lower in grade. I see it all the time. Mr Smooth (or so he thinks), Mr. 3x's Baby Daddy, the old guy who sweeps the hall, etc...are all on a constant hunt to score(although rarely) with female coworkers.
Because work is where they have captive targets, where they can "dialogue" a female at will, while the female is trapped in her cubicle, her station, or has to ask for/rely on the male for something to do her job on a regular basis. Allowing the jerk to have endless opportunity to make their inappropriate comments, or incessantly ask her out for a date.
We've all seen the video of the girl walking the streets being peppered with come-ons every 30-100 feet. Most women have experienced it, as many of us have witnessed it - but for many women, it doesn't stop at works threshold, it just takes a different form. And its too often tolerated, because the ladies in Human Resources determined that 'ol Mr. Hall Sweeper "doesn't mean anything by it."
HR too often makes excuses for the non-supervisory "Come-On guys", making it all one big joke, that the New-girl, fed-up old girl, etc, needs to get on board with. "They're harmless, ignore them." Is too often the refrain I've heard when reporting the Come-on Guys.
What will reform this type of behavior is other men. Fathers need to set a good example and teach their sons well. Male co-workers need to be intolerant of locker room talk and the behavior of a bad actor in their group. Men need to report inappropriate behavior to their superiors. Men need to stop expecting women to act like men and value them for being women and what their femininity brings to the table.
Women need more stealth in the modern environment. Luckily these predators are serial actors, easily recorded, filmed and posted online, in the act of harassment.
The answer is "NO".
It will require the die-off of all living males between puberty and their expiration date, plus nationwide focus beginning in kindergarten, continuing through college, on equality and respect for girls and women, which "only"might have some measurable effect given the innate maleness in the male of our species, which absent DNA manipulation, will not change.
Something akin to a a worldwide religious doctrine might do it, but only if there is a "wrath of God", fear, in the form of public shaming and appropriate punishment, meted out in every instance brought to light.
While the opportunity to comment exists in this report, I want to use this opportunity to point out to those responsible, at the Times, that the expanding policy of refusing your readership the same opportunity in other critical reports, equally important reports wherein the welfare and wellbeing of the American people by government actions and policies is presented, is a shameful policy, which leads one to conclude that the Times has little to no interest in knowing how it's readership thinks, further indicating there is genuine fear in the mainstream media that published public opinion, might create some level of organized resistance to the corporate government economic disenfranchisement that is decimating the poor and the middle-class.
Reporting on issues affecting life and living is laudable, but readership places equal if not greater value on its ability to comment.
1
Nothing will change until there are more women judges and more female politicians.
1
There's another big message - that tolerating and keeping these action secret is complicit
There were so many people, male and female, aware of all this for such a long time and yet they say nothing
Including some very powerful folks who needn't have feared retribution.
And with Trump's nomination and then election in the face of being a sexist and self described sex offender we have seen millions of male and female voters yet again cast a blind eye at this sort of behavior
"The answer is part cultural, part economic and part legal." True, but there's something you're overlooking. It's also part spiritual, and it starts with us but not by saying, in effect, If they were more like us, we would have less of a problem.
How can that be, if the problem is us? Workplace sexual harassment is just the tip of the iceberg: this culture is drenched in sex, and we are all complicit. All of Hollywood -- producers, directors, actors, actresses, sound techs, to say nothing of the advertisers and theatre chains -- is involved in promoting open, casual sexuality. And of course it's not just Hollywood. It's everywhere, even in our schools!
Those who sexually exploit others need to be called out, but that won't change them. They need repentance, forgiveness, and restoration, and who will be able to restore them? Not those who themselves are still doing the very thing they condemn.
Thomas Alderman
Those who exploit others sexually need restoration.
It seems to me that an awful lot of men are really, really messed up -- and I do mean really.
They hate women.
Why? Because ... and because, and because, and because.
But mainly they hate women because they see women as prizes, objects to be competed for, objects to be gotten (by hook or by crook).
And this puts them face-to-face with their own feelings of inadequacy. For many men this is shameful, and to run away from the shame of not getting or not deserving a prize, they fantasize about having one (or more) under their thumb (or other body part).
Here's the thing that men, in general, don't get. Women, in general, are as at least as smart as they are AT EVERYTHING with one exception: men, in general, have an easier time lifting heavy objects than women, in general, do.
That's it -- the only area in which men, in general, outshine women, in general. And it's becoming less and less important.
We must do away with the notion that women are a prize. I'd suggest we should also do away with the notion that being a "real man" requires winning. In fact, a real man masters the art collaborating, not competing; of working with other people, not against other people -- and that's an area where women, in general, outshine men, in general, by a country mile.
In a nutshell, then: Men, in general, are hyper-competitive jerks (i.e., all about power and thus quite messed up). That's the problem.
1
Individuals commit crimes. This piece is playing to identity politics pitting women against men.
Please define the actions that constitute sexual harassment (not based on subject feelings) and then hold all people accountable regardless of their sex. That is how we stop sexual harassment.
3
sexual harassment is a symptom. the cause is lack of regard for women. simply put: misogyny.
guys may be more careful about groping and grinding, but ending prejudice against women will continue to be as long and difficult a cultural transformation as ending racism has been.
1
"It would be pretty to think so." But the current upheaval is most likely no more than the outrage du jour. Men who tend to sexually harass women will not change. They never have.
So long as The Times and nearly every institution makes assertions about males being responsible for almost all sexual abuse, progress will be unlikely, whereas injustice will be most predictable. Had the editorial board bothered to check their unfounded assumption, they could have easily discovered that sexual violence among adults is much more evenly divided than is commonly assumed. (There is evidence that female abusers are less active than males until they reach their late teens.)
Those wishing to fill in their blind spot regarding this matter might wish to have a look at a story from The Atlantic published last year: "The Understudied Female Sexual Predator." [ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/ the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492 ] Many of the comments posted in the months since that article appeared explain how difficult it is to recognize female sexual abuse even when one is being victimized because we continue to believe it does not happen and, when it does, we struggle to name what has just occurred. No one likes to have their worldview upended by information that challenges what once seemed so, but fighting to deny the evidence is not a way forward.
1
We have been around for millions of years, when the lions are circling the camp, you need people you can rely on. In Quang Bi in '68 I picked the ones that would not fall asleep at night while on watch. Today's women need yoga, self reflection and a good salad. My guys at work want to close things up on 7th Avenue.
Regrettably, "No".
It's a different form of gun control. We know how that's working . . .
This has turned into a national hysteria. Not every allegation is true, or even, dare I say it, wrong.
I believed Anita Hill and Monica Lewinsky, but Bush in his 90s groping woman from his wheelchair? Really?
I informally polled woman in my community and no one said they were gropped or harassed.
Perhaps someone should start #NotMe!
I have no doubt this happens and those guilt - including several mentioned in this editorial - should be held to account.
But unproven allegations are just that. And it is a bedrock principle n this country (which seems to apply to most other criminal behavior) that no one should be deemed guilty based on unproven allegations - especially of events that happened many years ago and were not raised at the time.
4
I would like to repeat an insightful comment from Ms. Aitsahalia, a senior at Princeton High School in New Jersey:
"I cannot speak for all women of my generation, but I would like for ours to be the last that teaches daughters to be modest rather than sons to be respectful."
INES AITSAHALIA, 17
12th Grade, Princeton High School, Princeton, N.J.
This was published in the NY Times on October 21 among a series of letters from high school students in reaction to recent news items.
2
It all depends on the industry in question, the ratio of men to women in the that workplace and the willingness of management to support and enforce a zero tolerance policy related to sexual harassment. So, it will take time. The more egregious examples will continue to make headlines and that will keep the pot simmering.
The Hollywood folks, who knew about the extent of the harassment and abuse, are all complicit. They should hang their heads in shame and do everything in their power to, now, set and example. Better late than never.
I am woman who was been in the workforce for nearly 20 years. I have experienced or witnessed sexual harassment and lewd comments/behavior in every company where I've worked. Women (and the victims were mostly women) rarely made official complaints. And for good reason. As my best friend, who is an employment rights lawyer, recently reminded me after I sought her advice when my (male) boss grabbed the hem of my skirt, it is better to find a new job than put up the with the professional fall out of filing a complaint. Harvey Weinstein won't change a thing.
I support this editorial if you'll allow men to legally disown the many tens of thousands of women who deliberately trap men with babies they didn't consent to father, each year. Shouldn't consent work both ways? Deal?
2
"Boys must be raised to understand why that behavior is wrong, teenagers need to be reminded of it and grown men need to pay for it until they get the message."
52% of white women voted for Donald Trump after having been bombarded by the media for years and years to his unrelenting verbal trashing of innumerable women, his boasting of sexual aggression, his documented adulteries and discarding of multiple wives once their looks were past prime.
These female Trump voters are not innocent but full partners in the promotion of misogyny, and until this half of the equation is calculated we are evading the hard math. What will the editorial board say to them - they who proudly and defiantly ridicule feminism by any definition? Trump could not have become president without them.
I fully agree with the letter and spirit of the NY Times editorial, so that brings us back to the quote, above, and the imperative to persuade the mothers (not only fathers, if they are to be found) of young boys to teach their young charges never to emulate the grotesque behavior and attitudes of the President of the United States, and that young girls should be never follow the example of financial opportunism and manipulative pampering given to the President by the many, many women in his life. These are dreadful examples to be avoided in favor of better choices.
112
Couldn't agree more. And, for the women who voted for Trump, not only are they incredibly mislead, they betray their gender and like most Trump voters, act against their own best interests.
3
Yes, but to be frank, women were choosing between a man who was accused of sexual assaults, and a woman who claimed to be a feminist but remained married to a man accused of sexual assaults. It wasn't exactly a win-win for women. Trump is appalling, but Bill Clinton settled with Paula Jones for almost a million dollars for doing exactly what Weinstein is accused of doing -- exposing himself in a hotel room and demanding sexual favors.
The fact that the Democratic party never wanted to grapple with that reality and continued to claim Bill Clinton's behavior was consensual left a hole as wide as a barn door in their "Hillary the feminist" narrative. I voted for her, but not in the primaries, because I find Bill Clinton appalling and also suspected the Republicans would trot out Juanita Broaddrick (whom I believe) shortly before the election -- which they did.
The Democrats have a reckoning to do before they can even claim to be clean on this issue.
Regarding the women who voted for Trump, I live in the rust belt and talk to these women daily. They think feminism is about "wanting to be just like men" or being ostracized for being a stay-at-home-wife or Mother. Even though some of this is generational and therefore the numbers likely to be greatly reduced over time, Feminist needs to find a way to broaden the tent, speak to their issues, and then employ a marketing campaign to reach them with the proper message. Personally I think the Feminist agenda needs a bit of a reboot.
1
The cultural change will be the hardest, because it has to do with values. Unfortunately, there are many parents in the United States (men and women) who agreed that when Trump bragged about grabbing women it was "just locker room talk." Anyone who lives in a rural area of the country will know what I'm talking about. Those same parents don't see the need to bring up their boys any differently than the way they were brought up. They don't agree that a change is in order. And so the cycle continues.
5
The tide may have temporarily receded, but It is very far from turning. The real problem which needs to be addressed is workplace bullying. Sexual harassment is an illegal form of workplace bullying because gender, like age and disability are legally protected classes.
Everyday, unfortunately, millions of workers live in a microcosm of hell because someone who has greater power at work wants to control them. They are often singled out and systematically isolated from their coworkers. They are blamed for everything that goes wrong, real or imagined. They are denied information to get a job done and made to think its their fault for not getting it done. They are made to do tasks which are humiliating and in no way associated with their work. In severe cases, they are physically assaulted.
In most cases workplace bullying situations are well known by HR and co-workers. The employer often has lofty statements of zero tolerance of harassment. The true problem is fear is pervasive, and bullied and harassed workers are afraid of facing the consequences of being unemployed and unemployable.
In the Weinstein situation, it took a full multi-story expose to finally get the entertainment industry to engage in a moment of reflection. The Fox episodes were the tip. However, in the shadows of notoriety, millions trudge on in lives of quiet desperation.
3
The headline to this piece is hysterical. Literally. All men? Racial profiling bad gender profiling good. I believe you may have created a new controversy. Fake news now has 'fake discourse' as its ally. I read a while back the NYT had got rid of a whole layer of subs at the paper. Shows.
16
The place to start is with the laws we know we can enforce. Weinstein, Price, and WJ Clinton seem to be guilty of rape and should serve time . Beyond that, each studio and agency in Hollywood needs to develop a clear code of conduct and enforce that.
3
From a European point of view you Americans have a puritan, unliberated relation towards anything sexual. You are uptight about it and that makes you biased. That to my opinion, makes this >Weinstein behaviour< possible! The reason is to be found in your puritan religious upbringing!
2
Conveniently left off the sexual predator list AGAIN, Bill Clinton.
It's comical the way the left forget the women who accuse him of rape and sexual assault.
Well, it WOULD be funny if it weren't real women who were being ingnored by the very people who SHOULD be standing up for them.
I guess power does have its perks.
6
clinton was impeached and acquitted. cosby had a mistrial.
You need to reread the article. He’s named.
Since we're talking little cultural shifts and self-awareness here, why don't we abolish the necktie? I mean, seriously. Wearing a phallic symbol on your chest as the mark of a professional (powerful) man has always struck me as both overtly aggressive and sadly pathetic. Someone start a hashtag.
2
So, what's next then? ... abolishing skyscrapers and trains???
How do we change hearts and minds, specifically around sexual harassment in the workplace? By changing the law. Put real teeth into reporting sexual harassment settlements, give the afflicted a path of redress, and penalize companies with a persistent practice and pattern of sexual harassment. The solution is legal, but is it possible now?
Not a chance. The serial grabber in chief and his enablers in Congress will not ever make a law that effectively addresses this human rights issue. To expect a #MeToo campaign to change that reality is naive in the extreme.
Electing women to the presidency and a majority in Congress is the answer. Then we will have a more representative democracy and a chance for human rights protection.
1
What makes you think women in power would be less predatory? The corruption that comes with unlimited power is gender fair. We really should start teaching history in this country.
Sorry to disagree: sexual harassment is NOT a matter of money or power. It is OUR culture! And to be more specific in the USA, its cultural origin combines nowadays with our “Hollywood roots”: the western films with WASP macho men called cowboys, with a gun dangling from their belly. Their ancestors were the Greek Heroes, with their little dagger in their hand. They still influence our subconscious, conditioning our social behavior. An archeological find indicates that Ulysses was a gang rapist and Hercules a femicide. All this and more in a serious yet funny essay that explains the origin of the worst aspects of our society: “Our Lady Goddess & The Femicide of the Heroes”. (Free download from a San Francisco academic site https://independent.academia.edu/JeanSantilli)
1
So the Times somehow connects supporting Planned Parenthood with being against sexual harassment? Whether it is the Democrats money from Hollywood, Silicon Valley or Wall Street, these bastions of obnoxious and illegal harassment all pledge fidelity to the abortion crowd. Being pro-life or pro-choice has no impact on whether a person is a sexual harasser and to pretend otherwise is an embarrassing attempt to cleanse the Times' dirty hands.
4
No. Not while a self-confessed groper is POTUS.
5
A naive headline! Considering that you have D. Trump, an unrepentant sexual predator, installed in the White House.
6
I accidentally saw, and just read Ronan Farrow's piece on Harvey Weinstein in the online New Yorker. Not being able to STOP reading, I soon found myself so upset -- I HAD to STOP reading.
Weinstein cannot plead insanity - he simply needs to be locked up for a long time until he is forced to get on his knees, totally humbled and apologetic, forever, as long as he walks on this earth. If you can stomach it --
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/weighing-the-costs-of-speaking-...
3
What a stupid Headline - 'Will blah blah blah Finally Reform Men.'
reform |riˈfôrm|
verb [ with obj. ]
• bring about a change in (someone) so that they no longer behave in an immoral, criminal, or self-destructive manner.
Seems to me the Headline should read, 'Will blah blah blah Finally Reform People.'
ALL of the press about Harvey et al will not change the nature of people. For every Provocative there is a Predator.
There are always two sides to every story.
5
Let's be clear here - not all men are boorish pigs, rapists, or sexual harassers. And the answer to your question, at least for the Weinstein-types, unlikely . . .
2
Although it can be debated, people are born evil and must be taught to be good. With the degradation of the family unit and increasing numbers of children being born to single mother or raised only by their mother, it its difficult to believe our children have enough exposure to positive role models to encourage the correct form of behavior most expect.
3
The essence of evil in a sexual harassment situations is the refusal of the attacker (mostly men but also women) to comply with the wishes of the victim (mostly women but also men) not to take part in a sex-oriented interaction (from unsolicited courting to forced hugs to abuse of power all the way to rape). The more the attacker tries, and succeeds, to force the undesired sexual interaction on the victim the more hideous, and illegal, the harassment becomes.
However, within the realm of sex it’s not that straightforward, never was: by evolution, biology and culture sexual acts are not performed as a contract of cooperation but as the most entangled and nonlinear of all human-relations. Even when love and consent are involved, there are also seduction; an almost uncontrollable passion (in some cases); and, yes, shades of domination. Thus, it’s wrong to approach the issue as if there are always clear and marked criteria to identify when it is a case of misconduct or harassment and when it is a case of sexual–miscommunication or sexual-accusation.
So, will men finally be reformed? With both the level of testosterone in men and the need of women for actual sex to reproduce evidently rapidly declining, I think the whole sordid issue will soon be put to the dustbin of evolution.
8
Awesome analysis. I would put it a bit more culturally historically centric.
Just as Trump would never have become a serious political player without the collusion of old white males, so it is the case with the culture which has perpetrated sexual harassment in the workplace.
When this cohort dies off, which I am a part of, history will look back and see these problems as quaint, as anachronisms. Contrary to the bets that the GOP has put on continuing to win, we are becoming a more decent world, at least in the West. Steven Pinker's analysis was at least partially correct...
1
To Original Sin,
Thank you. Unfortunately, S. Pinker is dead wrong to believe “Our Better Angels” are emough insurance against the intensively accelerating global nuclear arms race.
The only point at which this will stop is when we have a majority of women Supreme Court justices and, possibly, a majority of women in both houses of Congress. Get out the vote and make it happen!
5
How does that work? They going to put all men in jail?
3
What you advocate is neither balanced nor equitable. You call for the same out-of-whack situation, just switch team colors, that's all. I do not wish to be led predominantly by women, any more than I wish to be led predominantly by men. Be realistic; moderation is called for! By far the majority of males control their powerful instinctive drives to dominate and copulate. Let's don't trash them all as part of a (futile!) attempt to have government be the solution.
I do not see any significant change or reform coming anytime soon. This is America in the age of Trump and our country, culture and society is being twisted, turned and assaulted on a weekly basis. Trump and his coterie of very wealthy, very powerful and very privileged MEN are ruling the roost.
If you are not White, Male and Rich, Rich, Rich your 'rights', any and all, are under direct attack and reduction.
Unfortunately, sexual assault and harassment are on a long list from The First Amendment to voting to birth control. It is getting hard to narrow down one's Top Five causes there are so many areas in our lives right now under siege.
The 1% are in the process of consolidating their power and their money. Laws will most likely regress.
As is clearly stated, until women gain Power and Money in greater numbers and can influence with said power and money, change will still be too little and too slow.
5
'Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?'
No.
First, most men are not predators, perverts, or both.
Second, 'reform' is the wrong goal. The sex&power addiction of those from Weinstein to HW Bush to Trump is not a moral issue, It is compulsive behavior that requires restraint and prevention, not reform.
Finally, what is needed is changing the attitudes of everyone else. Change the social norms, and the put in place for women the sorts of legal and social protections we have for other groups, and enforce them. Abusive behavior is wrong, and it is the perpetrators who must be identified and made to suffer, not the victims for 'failing to go along' and help the predator with his needs. Adults respect one another. Criminals don't.
Scary creeps are for Halloween, not the workplace.
5
It occurs to me - what with our current administration - led by a sexual predator and assaulter who dismantles all the good parts of the government (i.e. the EPA), that we could use a database outside of government and outside of any individual workplace. So perhaps a group effort of major news sources including the New York Times, the Washington Post, the LA Times (to get the left coast) and the Guardian UK (which does some excellent reporting on the US, and which has an admirable record of including feminist writers). Include MS. magazine, as well.
Let women (and others) document their harassment inside and outside of workplaces. Let everyone be able to see it. Have reporters follow up to verify the veracity of at least some of the reports (I am somewhat worried about men who would throw a monkey wrench into the works to muck it up). See what happens.
3
Reform men? Unlikely.
It will just teach them to be more "careful".
As the editorial writes: It is all about power and money and anybody who thinks that will change is not being very realistic.
Things will not change until Mr. Cosby and Mr. Weinstein et co are in jail; otherwise, it is just something that money and power can solve.
2
First, "men" as a uniform force of malefaction is using a bit too broad a brush. If one were to note the things they encounter during the day, the reasons they have not died an horrid death, etc. virtually every one of those things or processes were discovered and put into common use by men. One might also note the overwhelming majority of those men were also white (by the common definitions used).
At issue is power and its abuse. Women get up to the same thing as well. I have seen it many times. Drawing an analagous comparison of me, or virtually any other man on the planet, to Harvey Weinstein is not only an insult, it is just plain wrong.
6
Powerful men will not reform until the system of institutionalized sexism (and racism) that keeps them power is reformed.
2
Thank you for mentioning Anita Hill. I've been thinking about her since the beginning of this landslide of exposure and firing of sexual predators. I know Supreme Court justices are appointed for life, but I wonder why there isn't pressure on Clarence Thomas to resign. It is unfitting that someone with his shameful history should remain on our highest court.
No doubt the offers of millions of dollars is tempting enough for women to accept huge settlements with nondisclosure clauses, but it's thoroughly irresponsible and has had a significant a role in perpetuating the careers of these long-term predators. It's not "blaming the victim" to hold those who were willingly bought off to share the responsibility for others who were later harassed or assaulted.
9
Until men also begin to speak out, the battle to eliminate sexual harassment will never be won. In my 34 years as a psychology professor I was the victim of sexual harassment as collateral damage to women who were harassed. In both case, I lost my job--first as an assistant professor at Duke University in 1969 when a powerful professor seeking to seduce my wife decided to have me fired so as to make it easier for him; second in my last job as a tenured professor at Stony Brook University when in my capacity as Director of Undergraduate Studies I pressed charges against the graduate student of the most powerful professor in the department who admitted pressuring an undergraduate woman to date him or lowering her grade. The department chair waived it away with "boys will be boys." I was fired and harassed and decided to take early retirement. Until we realize that both men and women are victims and work out effective procedures for handling such charges, the risk of a loss of a job and perhaps a career will allow harassment in the workplace "to continue unchecked."
16
“Has America reached a turning point on sexual harassment?”
No, it hasn’t and it never will. Sexual harassment and sexual assault are not about sexual. It’s about power and control. It’s about getting away with terrible acts.
3
Giving women equality and safety is like gun control. Everyone gets outraged when something happens but no one ever does anything about it.
Let's take a moment to think why that might be.
8
Nothing will change. A new issue will replace it. The urgency will fade. Girl-Boy relations will continue as they always have. This is not a cynical observation. These are the facts in today’s news events and forevermore.
1
the best first step going forward is to clear away all obstacles to reporting abuse or harassment.
"The reasons for this silence are obvious: Women fear retaliation, indifference or disbelief if they speak up."
no more in house HR management of reports, not in the corporate or academic worlds, just as hospital ERs have to report gunshot wounds to police, the same should hold for complaints of sexual misconduct...any complaint to HR must be recorded and sent to the police who will interview the complainant (also recorded to ensure respectful attention) and the entire matter packaged for review by a district attorney for prosecution if the offenses charged are criminal and other dispositions, according to eagerly awaited "codes of conduct" promulgated by employers, unions, institutions and associations such as the motion picture academy, the NCAA, etc., which codes ought to have common cores.
once women who have no "political or economic power," no celebrity, are no longer inhibited by the prospect of speaking out we will have a condition that does not depend on cultural change or the reform of men who are inclined toward the use of their power to take such advantage.
the resort to law also protects the accused, as the filing of false complaints is also criminal...once done (it could be done overnight) the rest, revision of the laws themselves, elements of education and enlightenment, (including empowering silence) etc., which need time to accomplish, could be taken on.
Not to be cynical, this won't change the Creeps.
We just need to continue empowering the victims.
For folks that (get off? by) abuse/ing, assault, violate,..others, aren't going to stop their proclivities because of Word of Mouth or Technology. They just adjust.
But on the positive,..what this may do, is provide more courage to victims.
I've had many former girlfriends and actual (platonic) female friends, around 75% have been compromised/harassed/violated,...and many by a close relative. And too many were violated as a child.
And my relationships crossed many income levels, education levels, geographical, family dynamic,...
Not mention, I'm one that has a very Low Standard (of conduct:)), for I don't think it's a "violation" of anything to proposition/ask under most circumstances, as it pertains to grownups? IOWs, what others may deem Harassment, I call it a person with a "Weak Game" and doesn't know how to talk to women.
4
If sexual harrasment of women is about abuse of power, let us open up to all retribution for abusive systems. What person hasn't been abused at many times in their life?
This seems a subset of a much larger problem.
1
As many have noted, the patriarchal natures of our and most other societies is systemic and so deeply rooted that many women as well as men accept it as the normal human condition. As such, changes will only be incremental and sometimes seen as only one small step forward and another slightly smaller step back.
One small step I would like to see is for the issues of male female interactions in social situations and the workplace to be addressed as part of school curriculums in whatever area is appropriate. It needs to start early and be focused on more than sexual harassment and discrimination. Pie in the sky maybe, since sex and health education are ignored often in the very years and places that need it the most. I also hope there has lately been more "consciousness raising" among parents who will do more to address the issues at home - from birth! Baby Steps forward.
1
MEN are not the problem, here. The Harvey Weinsteins, Bill Clintons, Bill O'Reillys, Roger Ailes, Donald Trumps and other predators are the problem.
Many of the women now coming forward--and others of both genders who were silent enablers--showed a high tolerance for the widely-acknowledged behaviors of Weinstein and the others. But they made a deal with the devil placing their career aspirations ahead of moral outrage.
Keep in mind that despite Access Hollywood tape revelations, millions of women helped put Donald Trump in the Oval Office. The willingness to engage in such moral equivalence is the root of the problem. Focus on that reality instead of slamming the rest of us.
6
I believe strongly that we need to elevate the proffesionaliism in the workplace in order to have the framework to substantively address this issue.
If we collectively choose to pursue the goal of making the work environment completely off limits for romantic entanglements, then we have a very straightforward "ask" of any and all bystanders when a problem is in its infancy.
This is by no means a complete or perfect answer, but I think we need to fundamentally change the environment in order to be inhospitable to sexual advances of any kind from anyone. 25% of women experiencing harassment is so staggering a figure, we need a seismic shift/course correction across the board.
Open secreters, men who build respectability around them to provide them cover, often do a lot of good and even great things. It is unclear to me if they do good to create cover or discover the goodwill gives them cover; but for whatever the reason, the cultivate a community. With pedophiles, this is easier to see -- think of Sandusky, and the program he built. He not only groomed his victims, he groomed his community. The man who first abused me (at 11 years of age) did the same thing; he helped everyone. He did a lot of good, and my family depended on that goodness.
Many harassers cultivate an environment where their good deeds/creativity/wealth or whatever seem essential. For the women they harass, speaking out also risks damaging the community they live in; women remain silent not just to avoid the discomfort, but to protect other things they value.
Working our way through this social dynamic is going to be uncomfortable; calling out bad men means a disruption to the good they do in their communities, which are often glued together by predatory grooming.
I fear curbing the bad behavior will inevitably loosen community glue; but many women think like this when trapped in that moment. Most remain silent. The costs are many, and not only bourn by you.
2
Without doubt this will reform men! Extend individual crimes into a blanket condemnation of all men, root out a subtle problem with the blunt tools of heresy-hunters, criminalize normal behaviour by insisting on a judicial process where in many cases only the victim can really know if a crime was committed or not, and destroy any natural middle ground of ordinary sexual relations to do it! What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
6
We can hope that these revelations precede a change in attitudes, but I've yet to hear what exactly constitutes harassment? Of course harassment actions are clear, and it disgusts me that people can't keep their hands to themselves. But beyond that, where is the line drawn? Doesn't the line exist in different places for each individual? And since in most cases we're now convicting people in the court of public opinion even before both sides have been heard, this change in social attitudes only needs on false accusation of someone willing to spend the time and money to disprove and ruin the life of the accuser to set it all back again.
Social change doesn't just happen because the NYTimes publishes an article. We must be careful that the popular desire to shame people isn't mistaken for real acts of harassment.
3
While the title question may be tongue in cheek it is offensive. All men are not predators. Not even all men in power abuse their power sexually or otherwise. It is a frailty prone to all people. Men are reforming. 60 years ago the majority of women were not going to college, not financially independent and not joining the workforce in equal numbers. Straight Men born before 1950 all grew up with a sense of entitlement that has despite liberal protestations been significantly curtailed and the rank and file have had to adapt. Of course we are proud to see our daughters growing up with significantly increased opportunities but to pretend that simply because you know it's right and long overdue does not mean that for those giving up the power it has been easy. That does not excuse criminal abusers like the Weinsteins and Trumps but to assign their pathology to all men is the kind of rhetoric that encourages people to defend and worst of all elect such men.
3
Nothing will change. Thinking so is naive. As long as careers are on the line, bad behavior from men AND women will rule the day. There were probably more women who willingly said yes to Weinstein than no.
Then there is Trump. How many voted for him despite his bad behavior? Case closed on America.
The great historian William Appleman Williams wrote that a feature of the America's dominant culture was the tendency to claim that “The trouble was bad men, not institutions.” Today the dominant institutions are eager to shift the blame toward an abstraction called "Men" and away from the institutions that promote and encourage this unacceptable behavior. Physician, heal thyself.
1
Will Harvey Weinstein’s Fall Finally Reform Men?
In short, no! But when the whole of humanity learns to respect each other, it could happen.
1
As someone who was forced to attend military schools and has been subjected to "honor codes"(You shall not lie, cheat, or steal. Nor tolerate anyone who does) before, I can say honestly and honorably that they lead directly and inevitably to a corrupt culture of lies, innuendoes, quislings, and rats. Ms. Sandbergs suggestion to turn everyone into an undercover H.S. agent(should be expected of a Facebook exec, I suppose. They do have a reputation for not caring about consequences) sounds good and easy on the surface, doesn't it? And it's not as if "good and easy" solutions to a problem have ever turned into a horror show of injustices anytime ever in the past, have they? Gender equality is a serious issue, let's have some serious solutions that don't exacerbate the injustices we already have.
2
I think the following would help a lot:
-criminal prosecutions for sexual harassment and mandatory jail time.
-a law that companies and governments cannot pay out settlements without first fully exhausting the financial resources of the harasser. This would prevent the all too common scenario where a company or government (ie. Filner) pays a settlement and the harasser faces no financial consequences.
If these were implemented, then men would be a lot less likely to sexually harass women. (I do agree that it usually is men who do the harassing, even though I have been sexually harassed by two women, although not to the degree of any of the women in the Weinstein matter.)
1
There is some merit to the current hoopla, but as always, follow the money. People will manipulate the situation to grasp jobs, raises and promotions that they don't deserve by maumauing organizations about alleged harassment.
1
Why is no one speaking out about pervasive pornography which reinforces the attitude that its fine for men to use and abuse womem for sexual pleasure? Porn normalizes bad behavior toward women.
8
There is an excellent book about this:
Pornified: How Pornography Is Damaging Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families by Pamela Paul
It is 10 years old, but everything in it is even MORE relevant today, with the advent of porn on smartphones.
NO
3
This editorial has one of the more challenged titles I have seen in quite some while. I guess the title author was looking for something short and eye-catching. As with many such situations where the literal is unobtainable, the figurative will have to do. So -- 'men?' No, as you say. Some men? I hope so.
1
99.9% of men don't need reforming. We now know Weinstein was a rapist and a criminal. But will not be shunned by the Hollywood leftists or the democrat party because he is a big democrat donor. They knew he was predator and remained mute because he is a liberal. Shame on them. Hillary and Bill still have his tainted donations and refuse to return them. Bill Clinton, another sexual predator, is a hero among democrats. His wife who enabled his perverted behavior and covered up after him attacking his victims is a feminist icon. Shame on the whole lot of them.
11
Absolutely. When I insisted, during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, that a "relationship" between the most powerful man in the world and an INTERN - one that occurred within the context of the job and even involved sexual acts performed in the workplace -- could not be construed as genuinely consensual given the power differential between them, I was vilified by my "feminist" friends. Though both my parents were long-time supporters of both Clintons, especially Bill from his earliest days in Arkansas politics, I still hold that both Clintons are culpable and should, at the very least, acknowledge past wrongdoings. But I'm not holding my breath.
4
StrangeDaysIndeed: thank you for saying that. I've argued this for 20 years now -- while liberals have adamantly maintained it was "a consensual affair between two adults" -- I do not believe that at all. Bill and Monica did not meet in hotel rooms, or take trips together -- all the sex was AT THE WORK PLACE, where he was the most powerful man on earth and she was a young naive girl with stars in her eyes. What would have happened to an INTERN (unpaid!) who told the President of the United States "no" or turned him in for groping her? And had they not gotten caught...how would Bill have "rewarded" Monica in terms of recommendations, jobs, opportunities for giving him blow jobs in the Oval Office?
All these behaviors are deplorable . No man should ever indulge in this kind of behavior. And yet, in a culture seeped in sexual innuendoes, pornography, advertisements about provocative dresses, perfumes, alcohol & drugs, and completely amoral attitudes how would one expect that these kind of incidents will not take place?
I submit that most men if given enough power, money, position, & freedom from fear of being found out,would indulge in similar behavior, may not be to the same extent as Mr Weinstein. Remember what Mr Trump said about grabbing just any women in the crotch in his so-called dressing room banter.
5
Will Harvey Weinstein's fall finally reform men?
thanks for putting all of us deplorables in one basket.
I for one look forward to the day when I am judged by the content of my character not the content of my underpants.
13
Harrassment of the sort where a man is pushing his erect penis against a woman in the office, as in the esteemed journalist Mark Halperin's case, is not something any parent can train their child not to do. Perversities can't be educated away because they have deep psychological roots. It is implicit in every decent household that forceful sexual behavior toward a woman - in the workplace - is unthinkable. Maybe the problem is that these men don't come from decent households, that there was abuse or dysfunction in their homes. But that's not the victim's problem. These dysfunctional men in some position of power or authority--and there will always be a group of them--must be punished by the companies they work for by being fired, prosecuted or whatever is appropriate. They must be reported and called out by the victims--we've seen how much shame silences victims. But victims will need to overcome fear and fight for themselves. If they go back to silence, there will be no progress. And the institutions they complain to must be responsive to them from now on. The dysfunctional men will realize that there's really no space for them--they will have to heal themselves or excuse themselves from
the table.
4
There is nothing about men that needs reforming. Their are some men who do this. There are some women who intentionally play into this as well. Some women take advantage of the situation by using a cad like Weinstein to get ahead of other women. Women who were willing to do this justified it by the fact they were trading sex for advancement. In most cases men cannot do this and men lose out to women who trade on sex as well, although male actors are not competing against female actors so only men in other industries lose out to these women. The women who sold themselves for this are now complaining that they didn’t do it voluntarily. That is Malarky in many cases, probably most.
Yes their were no doubt some women who were truly surprised and shocked by his behavior but most for sure knew what was being asked of them when they were asked to his hotel room, and if not by then certainly when he walked in the room in his robe or naked.
You read the stupidity of these claims, such as, “he made me look at him” while he masturbated. That is ridiculous. Get up and leave.
This has absolutely nothing to do with men. It has to do with some men and some women.
110
The New York Times 'picks' appear to be chosen by a man / person who does not recognize sexual harassment as being a legitimate problem.
I suggest that the New York Times needs a feminist in this position - of either sex - but include at least one woman who is doing the picking. One who recognizes the problem and who would like to see real change in the workplace and in society.
3
Margaret,
I am a woman and agree 100 percent with Hooey's comment. Someone needed to speak the truth and Hooey had the courage. It seemed that there were women who were willing to sell their soul in Hollywood for a movie role and did not care about their self respect. Was it worth it to them to get that part? Not all of the women gave in to Harvey Weinstein's sexual desires but enough did to harm those who were totally innocent of his criminal behavior.
2
I disagree when the balance of power is so obviously different between Weistein, or whom ever it is. Also, he paid off several of his minions to set the victims up. Also, men prey upon naive young women and in fact they groom them. This has everything to do with the behavior of men in a position of power, using it to humilitate someone perceived as an object. Of course, some of these women seem incredibly naive, but in harassment situtations some people turn inward just to get through it. This is a coping mechanism. You really need to do some research on bullying.
Of course not all men are jerks like Weinstein, but many many men did not even feel it was worth reporting or intervening in and in that way, they condoned his behavior. It is this act, which is equally harmful and perhaps more, that even when someone objects there is no one who wants to hear her. Too often the victim has been forced out of her job and the bully stays, settlement after settlement. How is this fair?
2
I think you'll see incremental improvement but no major shift. Many of these cases involve men who can't relate professionally to others period, men as well as women, unless they have the advantage of being a career gatekeeper (they often operate their own business or are given great latitude from above). It works best where the openings are few (TV) or the field contracting (the arts, film). These men are usually ego monstrosities to begin with, but the behavior accelerates when others (fledgling film directors, publicists, etc.) accommodate and defend them. These people, I suggest, should be made to pay a severe price.
2
So close to getting at the truth: "Since harassment is about power, it’s no surprise that it thrives in industries where women are systematically kept out of powerful roles — and paid less for doing the same work as men. "
What about workers who get paid less in lifetime what a CEO gets paid in a year? This isn't just about women, and it isn't only about rape and harrassment. It's about power inequality and the multiple evils it causes in all aspects of our lives and environment. And in our twisted capitalist system power inequality comes primarily fron wealth inequality. Most of us are at the mercy of our bosses, of "owners", of corporations and the wealthy few who own them.
Think of the Stanford Experiment: Zimbardo's point wasn't that sadistic, dehumanizing, and predatory tendancies come about between prisoners and jailers. The point is that it happens with all power dynamics.
I'm not saying everyone must have the same amount of wealth (although it would sure help). But with most Americans unable to save for an emergency and at the mercy of a boss to not suffer the violence of homelessness, the multitude of ways we are vulnerable to abuse is staggering.
One solution is a better financial foundation for all Americans. Medicare for all and a basic income will be an excellent start to making us less vulnerable to the whims of the powerful.
14
While I recognize and appreciate the intent to convey hope that the tide may turning, I wont hold my breath. Have members of Congress made any statements regarding this issue or presented any legislation? No, they have used the distraction the media attention has provided in covering it to present and pass legislation further removing women's liberties.
5
While the truly awful sexual abuses of the workplace dominate the media, few organizations are free of the much broader, more nuanced, below-the-radar, underling damage related to pecking order. It is not uncommon to witness senior prerogative decisions, to include the choice of conversation, no matter how flawed those may be, over riding anyone lesser. Too many "teams" are functional dictatorships and ironically, academic and religious, with loftier mission statements, can fall shorter than commercial corporations.
1
we have plenty of worker safety laws. overtime laws etc but when it comes to anything sexual we expect the person in the weakest position to come forward risking everything. We need to change that.
There are costs in reporting harassment. My daughter lost friends because she reported a powerful man. She reported him anyway because she needed to have him stop what he was doing. She wasn't particularly angry at the guy because she didn't let it get that far. She had air-tight evidence which she preserved and she presented it to a Title IX representative. This is not complicated -- collect the evidence, don't let matters go too far, understand that you can't report anyone with power without negative consequences and then report or not as you see fit. Take control of your situation and hope for the best. The world is not going to change because of Harvey Weinstein. It's up to you.
11
I expect this period of public discussion to make at least a small change in the culture, but hoping to "finally reform men" will take much more. It's like turning an ocean liner; there's a tremendous amount of momentum that requires a long sustained effort to achieve a painfully slow change of direction.
It's a huge task because the problem is everywhere, in all parts of society, in all settings. Incredibly, I heard an NPR mediator kick off a discussion by wondering if it was just the movie business and politics, "Is is a problem anywhere else?" A thousand times yes, it's absolutely everywhere.
These attitudes are near impossible to root out because they are the result of both nurture and nature. In its simplest guise, a predator is exhibiting a caveman's unchecked animal urges, taking what he pleases and dominating to enforce the roles. Ancient instincts may be a part of us, but they need to be recognized and put in their proper place in the behavior of a member of a society. In a less thoughtful person, attitudes may simply be copied from a previous generation, and thus escape conscious examination.
That means that healthy attitudes towards women must be taught, and reinforced as much as possible by proper behavior in society, and then, even with all that in place, it will take time. The most we can do is to plant the idea and watch it spread through succeeding generations. Present it to impressionable minds, and constantly lead by example.
This is the turning point.
6
My mother used to tell me to "be a lady" on a regular basis. My father took me aside and told me, "First, become a person, then become a woman, and then, if you want to, become a lady." Yes, I'm a "me, too", but he did not get away with it!
5
I have two main points here :
First, sad as I am to say it, I don't believe greater awareness will remove sexual harassment though it might help reducing it. I mean, most men understand murder is wrong and yet there are still murders and they are still mostly committed by men.
Moreover, the he said / she said nature of most harassment cases and the lack of material evidence in so many of them means that harassment cases will ever remain difficult to prosecute.
I'm not saying raising awareness is useless (far from that), it does help reduce the number of incidents and helps victims in finding the courage to speak out. However, we should also manage our expectations of what it can accomplish.
Second, in the case of work harassment, there are simple way to make it easier to report harassment and protect people from it : stronger all around worker protections (no firing without cause, a fair chance to contest firing, an active and powerful workplace inspection department with an anonymous hotline...). However, considering how adverse the US has been to the ideas of both worker or consumer protection , I'm not holding my breath.
I believe that, at its core, sexual harassment is one of the behavior symptomatic of power imbalance, be it economic, social or judicial. A sure way to fight against it is to fight power imbalances in general.
6
The Human Resources department.
The headline calls for men to reform even as Human Resources departments and employee handbooks have proliferated. The HR department is the first line of authority that a victim turns to but many times it fails them as the department moves to protect the aggressor. The existence of HR departments and their staff give the false impression that all is well within an organization and that men do not need to reform. Such departments need to do better.
2
Really? It's not Weinstein that must change. It's parenting skills. We raise our daughters and love our sons. The first perceptions boys have are from mothers, families, brothers, fathers. What we see on TV and movies is second. Movies and TV would need to change overall. Is Hollywood willing to stop writing about women in submissive roles even when they are powerful?
2
"The most lasting change will have to come from men." That's it, right there. For the fact remains: We women still endure a patriarchal culture. The mind set of men, whether in politics, in the business world, or in our colleges, refuses to accept that we are equal...in everything. I dare say that of the two sexes, we are the stronger. That is not to be confused with physical strength. Rather it is internal.
It is time for too many men to understand that we will not back down. We will be relentless in pursuing our rightful place in society. We will make sure that our daughters will not be exploited. No one will get a free pass, and most certainly this president called Trump.
8
Another aspect of this that nobody is talking about is how other women respond to and deal with this, when it comes to their female colleagues. The same forces that allow men to keep from acknowledging and helping women prevent other women from being supporters and helping their sisters in the workplace. How many of us have worked with women who equate the workplace and their relationship with their male boss, the same as if they were in some bad 80's John Hughes film, where the woman who 'follows the rules' defends the abusing man against other women who have accused him of offenses, regardless if she herself has experienced this? I daresay, the answer is every one of us. This same dynamic that pits women against each other in interpersonal relationships often feels like its on steroids in the workplace. It is allowed to continue because women do not stick together and say "Enough, or Stop!" collectively. It would change if every woman in a typical workplace refused to work that day or chose some action TOGETHER to stop it. We have to stop waiting for men to come around. We have to be willing to risk it all and say that we will not tolerate this anymore and support other women's efforts with they do it.
3
All men never come on around to anything yet your only solution is for all women to speak up. Thats part of the problem.
1
I was raised male, now am a woman who is transgender. My perspective is more comprehensive than most, seeing both sides. I feel like a spy sometimes from the things women say and much is bad. Men would be shocked to hear what women really think of them, and vice versa.
What I've seen, up close, is boys are raised to be in awe of and frightened of sex by parents, thus to suspect girls, and also to respect violence. To repress emotions, and instead express them through aggression, and particularly sports which are often controlled violence in our country.
Girls are taught to be frightened of sex by parents, and culture and common sense tells females to use sex to control men.
This is a toxic mix. Each has an unhealthy view of sex, and of each other's gender, suspecting each of deception. Men then use their greater physical power to intimidate women as punishment. The acts these men do is not sex at all but violence, punishment, and aggression.
The NYT had an interview of a female discrimination lawyer who said this will not stop now, and I agree. Raise our children to understand sex and fear violence instead and it will change. But gun culture, religion, and sports will fight this every step of the way.
12
'Men would be shocked to hear what women really think of them...' Hardly. They show us every day.
You were not a female raised as a male; you were/are a biological male, who today goes around in dresses & makeup.
Humans are not among the species on earth who can change gender or sex. Do you have XY chromosomes? do you now or did you ever have a penis and testicles? Then you are and were and will forever be a man.
If only this were a problem among the rich and famous and powerful.
Ask any waitress if she hasn't been harassed by the assistant manager. Ask any female retail clerk the same question. Ask it again of female factory workers.
This conduct is so pervasive that it seems to be a national characteristic, the norm. Many women learn to expect it, especially if they are what society deems attractive, but certainly not exclusively. For some men, any woman of any age, race, or body type is an equal opportunity to harass.
Now men are talking of punishing women in the workplace by refusing to have meetings or meals with them - the Mike Pence defense. But really, can we not just expect men - grown men - to behave themselves - keep their hands to themselves - not expose themselves?
Maybe the outing of a few of the rich and powerful who do this will help. But all those assistant managers out there must get the message too. Women must have the right to go to work, and just work - not avoid unwanted encounters with the boss.
8
I have a female friend who is a language tutor and often has foreign businessmen as clients. They often ask her if they can have the lessons in their hotel rooms. She says that in most cases these are nice old guys who wouldn’t do anything. But nonetheless she never goes. Seems smart enough.
5
Execution of power usually comes with enforcement of one's will overriding others and it's not always pleasing experience for both sides, especially for one of them. Cautious, empathetic, persuasive and considerate enforcement against a beautiful or handsome and so attractive other gender should be a new norm for its execution in any case for anyone.
American men are already in the process of being reformed! Every year a smaller percentage of them expose themselves to accusations of sexual harassment because their labor force participation rate falls. If Joe Millennial is at home (means-tested public housing, please!) playing Xbox 24/7, who is going to bother to accuse him of saying or doing something inappropriate? I haven't heard of anyone whose SSDI check was cut off because of misbehavior.
A rational strategy for young men who wish to work is to emigrate to a country that uses Civil Law, e.g., France, German, Denmark, or Switzerland. It is possible, of course, that someone could accuse a man of misbehavior in one of those countries, but legal defense costs are much lower and the worst-case consequences are known in advance due to the written legal code.
4
If this were a local cultural phenomenon it might be stemmed by somewhat stronger legal limitations but it is worldwide and has been for centuries. Basically this is a specific case of the tendency to bully people who cannot fight back. Tighter surveillance might help but teaching men not just good manners but getting them to accept that women simply are equal humans that deserve social respect probably must be installed from early childhood.
Although I am a normal heterosexual male I have never considered women other than other humans but to get most males into that frame of mind is like teaching tigers to eat cabbages.
2
From reading other articles and comments I was most struck by one from a man: he was an executive in charge of putting in place practices against sexual harassment. He said the most effective tool was when men spoke up to the harasser and reported it. Men are more likely to hear men. Women should speak up but the system has taught them they will not be heard or worse lose their job. I am sorry but young women are entering the same system that has worked against them and that has endured for centuries.
6
I think it is time to pass the Equal Rights Amendment. Once that is law, everything else can be worked out from there.
3
The ERA cannot be "passed" anymore. It is dead as a dodo bird. It expired in 1983.
Also, the left would abuse it force things like transgender unisex bathrooms, so even a NEW ERA Amendment has no chance.
The ERA really did not address things like sexual harassment or namecalling or the Hollywood casting couch.
It's hard to get men to care much about this because they just don't see it actually happening. In regular corporate america, it's like accounting fraud or embezzlement, sure it happens but very rarely. I'd like to see a survey of women at Procter and Gamble, Merk, JnJ, General Mills etc. that asks not just did this happen to you once but did it have a significant negative impact on your career or quality of work life. I've been in business for 30 years in and around dozens of companies and never even heard rumors about this kind of stuff. Never heard jokes about it behind women backs. So it's hard to change the culture on something you never see.
2
Human beings prefer to forget, or refuse to believe, that they are primates, cousins of the chimpanzee. However, our larger brains and special gift for technology do not remove certain primitive drives, such as assertiveness in males. Male primates compete with each other for status and access to females. Females have to navigate this problem. Make no mistake, sexual harassment is the pathological form of this assertiveness. Ultimately, this pathology is counterproductive, since greater capacity for social cooperation is what really made the human primate so successful compared to other primates (along with language, the big brain, and the gift for technology). Still, the unthinking drive to aggression will always be there. The problem for people is how to get primitive rogues under control. Social shunning and negative consequences for the rogue are the best way. When it becomes clear that such behavior will meet with bad outcomes -- only then will this behavior be reined in, although it will never disappear completely. So, we need women to speak up, and men need to find other ways to channel their drives. Historically, one way men could channel these drives successfully, was by cultivating a good seduction technique -- one that is not only successful, but is seen as masculine by men and acceptable by women. (Think Cary Grant.) Unfortunately, men have almost completely lost this skill in recent decades.
4
Will Harvey Weinstein mark "a turning point on sexual harassment"?
Certainly the speed of his descent, the thud of his fall and the size of his and others' payoffs may grab the attention of some business leaders and impress the need to rout out sexual harassment as a business imperative, if not a moral one. Weinstein's case may also raise awareness of the ubiquity of sexual harassment and the huge number of women/girls affected and thus prompt soul searching by some men, better fathering by others and less of a willingness to look the other way.
But as a lawyer who dealt with sexual harassment claims for over three decades and as a woman who endured such behavior even longer, I'm not holding my breath for a sea change. For one thing, for every thoughtful man who does the right thing, there's at least one good ole boy who really doesn't see lewd behavior as any big deal, who sees sexual power play as part of his manhood and Weinstein's victims as thin-skinned money-grubbers. For another, the really bad sexual harassment is done in secret--where victims feel alone and singled out. If my own experience (and that of the many other women I've talked to over the years) is any measure, even relatively powerful women feel shame, as if they brought it on themselves in some way, and so go silent.
It will take far more than Weinstein to turn the tide--more leaders with zero tolerance, more men who speak out, more women who speak up. And the continued bright light of the press.
3
I am troubled by the claim in this op-ed piece that "men,,,are virtually doing all the sexual harassing." If you look at the data on the EEOC web site, men are consistently filing about 17% of all the sexual harassment claims annually. It could be that all of these men are being harassed by other men but that is not consistent with my observations in the work place where I have witnessed a woman clearly physcially harass a man. Anecdotally my male colleagues have ruefully informed me that they have observed women in positions of power harass subordinate men and, some of them have also been the victims of unwanted sexual attention from women themselves. While I have no evidence that this unfortunate behavior is any where near as pervasive as the harassment of women by men, clearly it occurs and to claim, as the NYT editorial board does here, that this problem resides solely in the wheel house of men is problematic. To many men this blanket accusation may smack of reflexive misandry. I worry that men who are disgusted by the perpetrators of harassment and, who honor all the women in their lives may be hard to entrain if they feel assaulted and misjudged as a class. With the recent hectic and alarming revelations in the press we are at risk of being the victims of the sort of reductive thinking the editorial board displays here. Not just men, everyone needs to step up to advocate for victims of abuse in the work place and to support a change in culture and law.
85
Oh, please: "If you look at the data on the EEOC web site, men are consistently filing about 17% of all the sexual harassment claims annually. It could be that all of these men are being harassed by other men but that is not consistent with my observations in the work place where I have witnessed a woman clearly physcially harass a man. Anecdotally..." Are you kidding? "Anecdotally"? You are actually trying to refute an exhaustively researched brilliant NYT editorial with your puny anecdotal experience based on your defensiveness and anger, when it is overwhelmingly agreed on in the social sciences now for decades that men are doing virtually all the harassing. VIRTUALLy all. That doesn't mean every single one. So what if "that is not consistent with my observations in the workplace blah blah blah blah"? You are one person. You are not an expert. Calm down and re-read the article someday when you don't feel that all women are out to get you. What nonsense.
17% is the reported number. We don't know the real number. I can think of 4 separate workplace incidents in which I have been harassed and inappropriately groped by both men and women. I didn't bother to report any of it for fear of being laughed at as a man who couldn't handle it himself, and subsequently am not bringing any of these incidents to light now because of the choices I made. And yes(!), #metoo was vulnerable to career risks in every single case.
2
I thought one of the lessons in the struggle against sexism was to refrain from painting with a broad brush -indeed, that sexism is itself an attack on another individual's humanity.
So while I understand the revulsion that drives the current exposure of sexual harassment, I'm uncomfortable with casting all men in the same negative light. Asking if these events will "finally reform men" seems to me to be as furiously contemptuous as its reverse: "why can't a woman be more like a man?"
Let's by all means cultivate understanding among the sexes for one another from the earliest age, but insist that we start from the position that each is worthy of respect -each, without having to be "reformed".
113
This entire discussion has been one of utter hypocrisy and so lacking in simple humanity, nuance, or understanding that you're almost stunned into disbelief. Men, in overwhelming and vast majority, are decent, loving, strong, and kind. They are our artists and builders, our scientists and engineers. If you want further proof of how an actual sexual assaulter came to be elected President of the United States, look no further than this biased, blatantly prejudiced editorial. It would make even those already predisposed to empathy and understanding for actual grievances want to run in the opposite direction. Emotional intelligence - and actual intelligence - seems to have gone missing.
2
Cruciform, apparently you don't understand the revulsion--nor even what the editorial is saying, I'm afraid. Where does this piece "cast all men in a negative light"?
"All men"?
Really? Where does it say that? What is your evidence? Did you even read the piece, or did you just go off about the headline? You're making an argument that you can't support and don't even bothering trying to justify, other than through your own hostility and defensiveness, because you've decided the piece is about you. Your use of the phrase "the current exposure of sexual harassment" is telling; you apparently acknowledge sexual harassment of women by men exists, but perceive that doing anything about it will make you uncomfortable. The editorial is about POLICY--about sweeping structural change but also precise, surgical adjustments to the way employers, companies, agencies, and the courts handle these kinds of problems. There ARE men--plenty of them--who need to be reformed, and it can start with your lousy attitude.
Really? I'm "stunned into disbelief" by your rage, defensiveness, and hysteria. The piece is about POLICY, proposing changes in the legal systems and various institutions to mitigate the problems associated with sexual discrimination and harassment. You, on the other hand, offer no evidence or analysis of how this excellent, evidence-based, exhaustively researched essay is, in your overheated words, "biased" and "blatantly prejudiced." Where is your evidence of bias? What facts aren't facts? Where does the essay say that most men AREN'T decent, loving, strong, and kind? Where does it say that? "They are our artists and builders, our scientists and engineers"...what inspiring, sentimental nonsense. What does that have to do with anything? Guess what? Women are also artists, builders, scientists, engineers, professors, bricklayers, migrant workers, nurses, doctors, butchers, and bakers, blah blah blah blah, but none of that is relevant, because the editorial isn't about that. If you think this editorial is what got Trump elected, then you're part of the problem and, I'm assuming, one of those not "already predisposed to empathy and understanding for actual grievances" and running in the opposite direction. Good. It will be easier to pick you out (with my Hunger Games crossbow) as one of the cowards too angry and frightened to do something about the "actual grievances."
Harvey Weinstein's fall, following naming and shaming by the victim, and the resulting "me-too" feminist movement might not change the culture of sexual harassment at the workplaces immediately but this Internet enabled women activism would certainly alert the menfolk to behave more sensibly and respectfully to their female colleagues.
16
No!
When women can't fight for the same salaries as men because of some statute of limitations; when women are attacked by Trump using words like "bleeding", or not a "10", or calling a women "ugly"; when rapists are set free even when convicted, I don't see any real reform happening soon. The same way I didn't think the Vegas massacre would do anything for gun reform when the bodies of 5 and 6 year olds never made a dent. And this doesn't even address the abuse young girls have to suffer by the hands of relatives--many probably well-respected in the community. I for one never thought Halperin or Bill Cosby or the actor from 7th Heaven would be on that list. You can't tell who they are from their profession (clergy), smiles and laughter (Cosby), or their family life. Their true being is invisible until someone who was victimized comes forward and their lives are destroyed. That's the only way to combat their power.
92
Can’t agree more. I’m a man.
I don't feel hopeful, as many of the comments I've read by men other places have basically said women are either making it up and going after people witch hunt style, they are tired of hearing about this nonsense, or, in the case of George he, why are these women smearing this poor old man and trying to rob him of his legacy---he's just old, he can't help himself. :-(
A male friend of mine said that his uncle used to rape him at his own house. Today, many years later, the uncle is still a welcomed guest in that home. You can't make this stuff up.
I don't know why this anecdote stays with me but when I was a younger man i overheard an argument between two colleagues pitching their boss. They both were getting frustrated but the woman was winning on points. At that point the male said something to the effect of "you're just feel that way because you're on the rag." I was stunned that the conversation went on from that point but I noticed at that juncture that the winning side of the argument was mortally wounded. She continued to argue but was fighting back tears at the same time. I wasn't supposed to be hearing this conversation so there was little I could do in 1980. If this kind of exposure changes that kind of dynamic, I'm all for it, because I can't get those tears of frustration out of my head, even 37 years later.
221
There is a good chance that she was fighting back tears because her period was very painful that month. Men really have it easy: Not only do we not have a monthly period, but we also don’t have to give birth.
1
There was something in what you said that I could not get past. You overheard the conversation and couldn't do anything to help her because why exactly? No sexual harassment laws didn't exist there but you could have said something to someone or even her but you didn't and my question is 'why?' You knew it was wrong what you experienced and you correctly identified that the reason she was so brutally shut down was because she was winning the argument and it was a means to reassert male authority over her. We all should say something when someone we work with is being mistreated and you did nothing because it did not affect you personally. You felt bad for her, ok but that wasn't enough. I am not angry with you and I really do understand you but this is the precise reason that women are forced to silently endure this type of torture, because they realize they are alone.
2
Men have powerful hormones too....but in their case it leads to violence not depression & tears...lets keep that in mind. Men have problems handling their aggression and their emotional issues.
1
We can all agree without question that men should not be groping, exposing and making demands on women. Yet what men consider a turn on is often a turn off for a woman. All to often we are simply stunned. I felt as helpless at 43 as I did at 23 and I had tenure. Where do you go, even if you can overcome your reticence? Usually the good old boys club permeates the workplace. They are so proud of, shall we say, the size of their hands. Where is my safe place? What is wrong with them?
85
What is wrong Vickie is that men fear what they equate women demanding fair treatment to losing their power.
I had a female supervisor, divorced, who love to wrap her arm around my waist and rub my stomach just above he belt buckle. When I finally indicated I wasn't interested, my job evaluations suddenly got very negative and I lost that job. Do you think it is just men who do this? Ever hear the phrase, "a woman scorned?"
Perhaps I am a pessimist. Perhaps I am a realist. As the parent of a teen daughter, the quick answer is no. The change will be slow.
Sexism, harassment, complicity, and shaming of girls who speak up remains rampant, but my hope is these teen girls I know will continue to speak up. Hopefully, they will continue to fight even if that requires them to push their parents, brothers, coaches, teachers, and other girls. And, eventually, their own children. It will likely take that long.
41
The big question is will Harvey Weinstein's Fall Finally Reform women - to speak up. to say "enough". to stand together, Yes. It will and already has.
20
And no more cash settlements and non-disclosure agreements in exchange for silence. Voices must be heard.
Those who participate in sexual harassment are narcissistically consumed with themselves and their desires and fail to believe much less consider they will get caught or have to pay a price. They also fail to consider or care about the harm and damage they are perpetrating. And while doing the right thing, even when no one is watching, is of course the ideal and what we deserve and expect, the truth is doing the right thing requires a mature enlightened compassionate thinker who chooses to deny primitive impulses for the good of the other; for the good of the whole.
Thus, Harvey Weinstein's fall might raise awareness for awhile but will do little to expand anyone's consciousness and decision to behave differently. That's a personal journey that requires personal growth and even intensive psychotherapy.
Like every other problematic issue, prevention is the ideal. That starts during the formative years and includes being taught to respect oneself as well as others including the opposite sex. As that saying goes, "it's easier to build a boy than it is to mend a man."
22
This is only about power. It is not about sex. If the predator has any power over the victim - over her or his career, ability to buy food and care for one's family, then predatory acts are an abuse of power. If the prey are desperate enough the predators will become used to abusing their prey. I do so wish he'd encountered a woman who was trained enough in martial arts, (and who was not desperate to keep her job) and was able to inflict some damage on the guy..
35
If the guy wanted sex, there are a lot of other easier ways to get it.
Yes, they are enjoying the game, the power, and getting away with it.
28
You don't think that woman trained in martial arts would end up in jail charged with assault? Do you think the authorities, mostly men, would accept the self defense argument? I was told, far too many times in my younger years that "any normal red-blooded male would try" and that it was" up to the woman to say no.
2
I still don't understand what pleasure some men get from forced sex. It seems like an aggravating, frustrating process. My idea of sex starts with mutual smiling, then grinning, then laughter. And that cannot be coerced.
1
Satisfying as it is for Weinstein, O'Reilly and Ailes to have met public opprobrium for their predatory behavior, there is no reason to trust that this is a watershed moment.
For one thing, most sexual harassment cases will not be covered by the NYT.
For another, the women who found the courage to come forward did so with the security of established careers. More economically vulnerable people have more to fear from speaking up.
Harassers are confident about their power to exploit. Unless their basic sense of morality changes, workplace abuses will continue.
70
It is not about the men, who by definition are reckless fools. It is not about the women victims, who are by definition caught in a difficult spot.
It is about everyone else around them. That means those whose behavior makes the difficult spot work like that for the victims, and look away from the fool as he pushes deeper into this mess.
The solution will come from those who are not vulnerable, and not doing it, who will see it as wrong and destructive. They'll make it stop.
28
Perhaps it is women who need the reforming.
We live in a highly competitive world. When I was young my parents took me to learn how to play the piano. I was harassed in every piano lesson. My playing was criticized to the heavens. Yet, remarkably, even though I cried after each episode, my playing improved. It is true that I gave up music for a different career, but the harassment was not a negative.
I taught in a major university. One of the senior faculty would harass me by attending my classes, asking cutting questions and then falling asleep when the class seemed "boring." Yet I couldn't complain. It was not SEXUAL harassment, and I'm not sure that I really suffered in the long run.
Right now millionnaire women, who have maids and butlers, and are attractive to boot, are propositioned by Hollywood directors. They want us to feel sorry for them in spite of the fact that their poor sisters in the ghetto are dying because they cannot afford cancer screenings.
2.2 million Americans are in prisons, most of them men. America has 6 times the incarceration rate of China, 14 times the rate of Japan. Almost all of the prisoners are men.
It is men who have the truly obnoxious jobs, such as construction.
The editorial board would have you believe that the women in America have it bad. I'm not buying it.
And the attitude that somehow construction workers, who have heterosexual impulses, are lesser beings is noxious.
It explains our decaying infrastructure.
43
Jake, you're still confused!
2
Go to the post office and watch the women returning clothes, what difficult lives they lead. Help me fill out this address label. Then they jump into their Range Rovers to meet for lunch. Meanwhile men slave away. No complaints. One million years ago men went out for thew hunt, while women milled corn and complained. Now they buy the $40 salads and whine. Then they go home to a samsung washing machine, a heated house, a buttmaster, and take out. Tough lives.
Perhaps women should do a better job raising their children, both boys & girls....and be a better role model for them, showing them that both men & women need to learn respect to be respected. Teach them all to cook, clean, care for their kids etc. There is no "women's work" anymore.
Powerplay. Sexual harassment is a way to coerce people to do (or not do) something they don't want to, the feeling of power over others can be intoxicating, it seems. Also, it can be complicated and systemic. My tormentor of a couple of months was a gay guy who had decided that I was gay, too and he wanted to help me develop that side a bit more. As an intern in a Pharma company I didn't know how to shut this down and dreaded going to work everyday, although I loved my job. At the same time, a woman who worked for a different department complained that he resisted doing something for her department because she didn't want to sleep with him. So he was both doing the tormenting and getting accused by the wrong side. My story makes me conclude that the workplace should be free of any kind of relationship talk.
15
There were two more women ready to testify and cooperate Ms. Hill's accusations against Thomas, but, I am sad to say, they were prevented from appearing by committee chairman Joe Biden.
152
Pretty sad that the ex President of our country, Bill Clinton is still held in high esteem around the country and the world. He gets $500k for speeches, millions for his foundation, people buy his books and he lives like s king. His accusers have had their lives turned upside down as the lib women did not support them in fact, ostracized them led by Hillary's condemnation of them. I listened to Monica get interviewed last week; what a strong, fierce confident person she has turned out to be, yet thinking back to her issues with Bill, even she was not supported by lib women, the press et al. Very sad situation for all of these women because of Bill Clintons predatory behavior.
1
It's been noticed that the former VP is pretty lecherous himself, especially around very young women (or, girls). Seems our politicians are not a good example of decent behavior. In more ways than we can count.
1
More than two.
Will Weinstein's fall reform men? No. Of course not. It may reform our cultural approach to sex, to women, etc., but men have been the same for millennia. I'm hoping that women have not. I hope and pray that women are not helpless and passive at their core. And I hope that today we will really develop a more equitable judiciary system. That will reform our cultural approach to sex. Men will learn to live with it, if women do. We should raise our little girls to be strong, muscular, active, and non-passive. Note, I do not say "aggressive."
18
So we women are the ones who have to do all the transforming so that this stops happening to us?
1
Dear R in Boston: I didn't say "we women are the ones who have to do all the transforming . . ." You can stop men's behaviors through laws, etc., but you haven't stopped a pattern of behaviors between the sexes. We need to change our cultural outlook and that involves more than changing men. You object to becoming strong, muscular, non-passive? If you want to change something, look first at yourself. You have more control over that than over other people.
1
Why don't we raise our little boys to not harass and sexually assault women?
This an imbalance of power issue, that will only be resolved when there is a balance of power between male and female. Read the front page NYT article about Tuam in Ireland. There the power was held totally by nuns , females. So once again this proves that "All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
40
Those nuns had little power. They were given jobs under a set of rules devised by a male church. Those rules included the shaming of female sexuality and the shunning of single mothers. They were probably given inadequate funds to maintain the despised job they were doing. Although what they did was wrong, blaming them without blaming the male-led Catholic Church and its shaming of women is missing the point by a hundred miles.
1
Those nuns were serving, following, and representing the most paternalistic and sexist organization in the world.
5
The story of Tuam is powerfully affecting. These nuns appear to have expressed rage and frustration at their own lives by victimizing the only people less powerful than they: unwed mothers, and their babies. Catholic Ireland had primed everyone to accept this as normal. So much for the Church. So much for goodness and mercy.
Men have been shaped by millions of years of evolution. They are programmed to have sex with as many women as possible, producing the maximum number of babies and ensuring the continuation of their species.
Does nature care about sexual harassment? No.
Human culture, over thousands of years, developed social structures to keep men in check. The men who did not behave properly were denied a place in society, and could not marry and have children. They were shunned by women and scorned by other men.
Now, it is just the opposite. The men who behave badly achieve are the most successful. Many women are attracted to them, and many men aspire to be like them. Is it surprising that things may get out of control?
Traditional values did involve constraint. Each person got one spouse, and you had to stay married for life. Many people found this irksome, but it did tend to keep people out of trouble, although not everyone, of course.
30
Naivete reigns! People may have been married for life but there have been prostitutes and "houses of ill-repute" in every society forever. Rich men had mistresses and rich wives often "strayed" as well. "Traditional values" were just pretense and justification.
1
Susan - So what? Society was pushing men in a direction they didn't necessarily want to go, so some of them didn't like it. That is not surprising.
But many of them did feel compelled to follow the rules. Not-so-bold spirits look around and see what everyone else is supposedly doing, and do that.
After all, there are hundreds of millions of men. The idea you can get each one of them to behave is absurd. You want to push them in the right direction, and hope most of them go along.
1
HW was married to a beautiful woman, far above his own attractiveness. Didn’t stop him.
1
"It feels as though a real and lasting transformation may be afoot — until you remember that this isn’t the first time women have sounded the alarm."
Yes. I have no doubt that just because this is all happening everywhere that it will last. I was talking about this very topic tonight at a gathering of friends and said, I think for every step of progress women make in feeling, "finally!," there's some male quietly simmering, developing a new resentment to complain about with his buddies.
In other words, as with racism, you can't shame or legislate sexual attitudes out of the workplace. If men have been raised in a culture where they can do no wrong and women who complain about harassment essentially "asked for it," you aren't going to change their mindset overnight.
I agree with the board that it starts in childhood so that by the time boys become teens and the hormones rage they have a healthier view of women as well as the behavior they should engage with them.
Until then, we could start by immediately banning the ridiculous term, "nonconsensual" to define interactions between the sexes. Because when is sexual harassment ever consensual?
79
You can't legislate attitudes, but when a man sexually assaults a woman, he can be arrested and charged with criminal behavior. That is how the law works, and it works for other violent crimes (to some extent), so why not this one? Arrest them. Jail them. Remove them from society if they cannot live well with others. I have known men who are little more than animals. All women have. These men should not be around women, period. That means jail.
Sexual harassment is consensual when the woman wants something.
Speaking of Burger King, the company that torpedoed a 5-cent-a-barrel (or basket; I forget) raise for tomato pickers, have they now agreed to pay 5 cents a barrel (or basket) more? Or are they part of the great American tradition of cosmetic change?
14
I think Taco Bell did the same. And I believe it was for a penny more a pound of produce picked.
We may be referring to two different incidents. Mine was tomato pickers in Florida. I recall that McDonald's and some others were ready to pay but only if the whole industry went along. Burger King and one or two (?) others refused.
We all know looks matter, not only in entertainment industries, but in just about all professions. Most men and women understands these forces at work, and some play it to their own advantage. At the same time, unwanted overtures and various forms and degrees of sexual harassment come with the territory because certain candidates are selected for their looks and not necessarily for their ability or experience . One potential beneficiary of this greater awareness of the risks and costs of sexual harassment might be that the candidate with the best training and skills but only average or even below average looking would now have a better chance in getting the job offer.
For men and women who have not yet reached a level of professional success that they are satisfied with, I would urge caution to join the #me too admissions: you may not lose your job, but you may well have a hard time getting a promotion or new job offer in your desired profession. There are not many bosses who would hire some one that might lodge complaints about them down the road.
7
Women need to be bold Now or we will suffer the consequences for yet another 20, 30 or 50 years. Elizabeth don't justify or urge caution. The only way men will stop their harassment of women, which is 'power over', is to be outed. Now.
13
Unfortunately, I think Elizabeth has a very valid point.
1
So, Elizabeth, you're advising us to lie back and think of our promotion. That it?
Thank you for a clear review of what has happened when women have attempted to complain and how despite the ruling of 1986's Supreme Court in 2014 the court's backward move compromised gains. And all undone by men? For shame. If major retailers are capable of requiring their suppliers to adhere to a code of conduct it doesn't seem to much to ask that any government contractor, government employee must also adhere to the laws. This country is capable of changing social behavior especially when our women are involved. For perspective: look at mothers against drunk driving to see change occurring when people said it wouldn't. We need to blanket our country in just such a way with an even more united force and all men who love their mother, sisters, daughters, wives, sons, their families need to step forward and join the women. #enough.
17
A big difference between today and when Clarence Thomas and Bill Clinton were in the news is that social media has such tremendous reach and is giving so many women the confidence to come forward to share their stories and out their abusers.
Many more men need to stand up for women, children need to be taught about respect and equality and hopefully, as more individuals are exposed online and face real consequences, abusers will begin to change their behavior and start to make things somewhat better.
8
Men, while not sexually harassed or assaulted on the job in nearly the numbers women are, need the same protections. It's unbelievable in the 21st century that is so hard to keep your hands to yourself and to treat your co-workers with respect.
Many men in the entertainment industry do not come forward to point out harassment or protect the harassed because they share the same fear of retaliation that women do. As a former female executive who was not sexually harassed but had a first row view of the boy's club, I can say with certainty that the inner sanctum of men in the movie business cherish their coveted and hard-won spot, and they don't want it jeopardized. They are ruled by power and competition.
Perhaps this really is a turning point. If it is, then I'm relieved for the current generation of women who will be less intimidated than my generation was when they speak up about improper behavior in the workplace.
18
"Has America at last reached a turning point on sexual harassment? "
Yes. For the first time( I'm 65) I feel compelled to think about how women are on a disadvantaged side of the deal. I always projected my own feelings of not minding being hit on by women, thinking it a compliment, even if an unwanted and unsolicited one. Now I see that with so many women having suffered from unwanted advances by men, sometimes by force, that many might be in an almost pstd situation regarding their relation to my gender.
I plan to use this realization accordingly.
54
@BMM It has to be about him because there won't be real change–systemic or otherwise– without awakened individuals.
It’s all about social norms, Norms are modifiable. Look at how quickly societal attitudes toward smoking have changed. I get it -- sexual harassment, predation, and power-mongering are not exactly analogous to smoking. But the behaviors are sufficiently similar – stoked by neurochemistry, and reinforced by misguided norms. Change the misguided norm via public shaming, litigation as well as legislation and the behavior will all but vanish. This could get done in less than 10 years. I’d put $ on it. Call me a dreamer, but it’s not an unreasonable prospect.
11
"Look at how quickly societal attitudes toward smoking have changed."
That took a generation, over twenty years.
3
The "casting couch" has been going on for a hundred years. Twenty years is a drop in the bucket.
3
And maybe we can not turn Vice President Pence into a running joke for choosing not to meet alone with a woman on business. Yes, he’s too conservative for me on a range of issues, but if more men choose to at least have meetings in public places, there would be fewer Harvey Weinstein’s.
33
This isn't really about sexuality (or sex) -- it's about misusing power and authority to coerce someone and using sex to violate the other person's boundaries.
18
If Mr. Pence believes he cannot control his "urges" if he's alone with a woman for a business meetings, well then, I'm glad he found a way to avoid temptation. The thing that bugs me about Pence is that he call his wife "mother." Madonna/Whore complex, I guess.
1
I think people's reluctance to respect Pence's choice hinges on the repressed nature of his character. There is something off-putting about him that seems pathological rather than noble.
2
Not all powerful men behave this way. I am firmly convinced that no one learns from another's mistakes. Men prone to misuse of power by abusing others will do it the way many drivers text although we all have seen the terrible consequences. They do it because it's an impulsive act, seemingly irresistible
, and they think that they -- unlike others -- can get away with it.
16
When it's no longer something that 'they can get way with' and they lose their jobs, are ostracized, or jailed, it will stop.
11
Then lets put women in jail for marrying for money. The streets will be empty and the jails full.
For true reform to happen, both men and women need to change. It should begin with the abolition of co-ed dorms in colleges and universities and an emphasis on the old-fashioned values of politeness and chivalry. Women should dress more modestly. Throw out the decolletage and mini-skirts that invite attention. Men should cease wolf-whistles, cat calling and lewd and lascivious behaviors. It might help as well to avoid the temptation of extra-marital affairs and covert assignations. These immoral behaviors have consequences. The reality is that to eradicate sexual harassment altogether, children, boys and girls, at a very young age should be taught manners and mutual respect. Teenage dating should not occur without a chaperone. And while we are at it, Americans might want to tone down the highly sexually charged culture foisted upon us in advertising and movies. Having good role models with public officials and figures beginning with the President of the United States might also be helpful with the exceptions of course of Presidents Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Bush, and Clinton.
14
great comment!
a little more modesty on the part of women and a lot more self discipline
on the part of men would go a long way
to alleviating this heinous situation.
11
Great ideas. Female engineers at my aerospace company dress rather hot, and I'm wondering, what's this about? Of course they would be aghast at any interaction that crossed a line. 2+2=4, ladies.
2
Modesty doesn't make a whit of difference. Women in hijab are harassed and groped on buses in the Middle East. My neighbor, a conservative Christian who always dresses in long skirts and other modest attire, has been harassed as much as the rest of us.
4
This is not meant to be an excuse of any kind, just a fact, but men are driven by testosterone, which has a variety of ill effects related to trying to mate, the primal force behind this. The big "however" is that we are quite a ways out from cave-man days, so there has been a long history of socializing and civilizing that informs most men.
To that point, I think it is an overly broad brush that paints "men", as used in the title, as needing reform. Some men need reform regarding misuse of power, and probably most men could use a slap up side the head at various points in their lives for saying stupid things, but as far as "men" in general behaving like the predators we keep seeing in the news, I have not seen or heard of that often - I have seen it on very rare occasion in the workplace, but it was dealt with correctly, publicly, and also non-destructively for the offender who had not crossed too far over the line. That may have been a rare healthy outcome, I don't know.
Male manager bias against promotion of and equal pay for women is a separate topic, and it is clear that those problems are fairly widespread, certainly regarding pay inequities and often regarding promotions to the highest levels.
Yes, there are plenty of predators and "pay for play" types apparently, but I think that more men than not respect women and would not go anywhere near the lengths to coerce someone into sex as appears to occur with many of these powerful and clearly unhinged guys.
9
Open your eyes. It's endemic in our culture. Start looking and you will see it. Take nothing more than the wolf whistles almost every 13 year old girl experiences. Is that really OK? She's still mostly a child. Would hate to have my 14 year old grandson have to endure that as a coming of age ritual
30
You haven't seen it because it's not happening to you personally. That doesn't mean it is not happening. To the contrary. You should listen to others who have had these experiences, i.e. women, instead of opining without facts or knowledge.
I am one of those women, and it's not just once that I have had to deal with this kind of behavior. The first time it happened, I was 21 and the man was in his 60s. It was graduate school. I remember going to the chair of my department, and the chair basically refused to listen; he knew it was an ongoing problem with this person, but the man was a "valuable" faculty member and he didn't want to deal with the situation. That's when I learned at age 21 that nobody would help me, and the only way I would get out all right was to protect myself -- even though this man repeatedly tried to only give me feedback on my work if I agreed to meet him alone. It harmed my career to have to spend so much time avoiding his literal clutches. And that's only one example, out of many, and nearly twenty years later I am still not immune to more of this happening. You don't know what you are talking about; you need to listen, David in North Carolina.
54
CS: I'm on your side, and yes, I know that women have more awareness of it because it happens to them more often. I acknowledged clearly that there are plenty of men who abuse their power. I also gave my opinion that more men than not respect women and don't behave that way. I think that is probably true. That does not mean that there is not a significant percentage of men who abuse their power - clearly, there is. Do you really believe that most men would/do behave in the way Weinstein and others have if only they could? I do listen and read, and I believe you and many others have been unfairly treated.
2
I need no reformation and I resent the implication that I do. This celebrity gossip is in no way indicative of how the vast majority of people act in the workplace.
24
Why would you only defend yourself in your comment? The editorial clearly explains how this is a systematic problem, not solely 'celebrity gossip'. If the most conservative estimates suggest that 25% of women have experienced sexual harassment at work, you are either working in a monastery or unable or unwilling to see power dynamics and situations that are most probably occurring around you.
Why would you use your time in the comments section to defend yourself rather than empathize or ask questions that could shed light on the injustices suffered by women in these situations or the structural imbalances that allow these events to occur and not be redressed?
Why does this have to be about you?
52
The editorial is about the bad behavior of celebrities, CEOs, and politicians. They write "Sexual-harassment culture is tied directly to the economics of the workplace. Since harassment is about power..."
Well, I have no economic power in the workplace. The vast majority of men (and women) have no power in the workplace. How can we, who have no power, do anything to anyone?
3
Perhaps he feels that way because "men" are being accused and he's a man?
2
This coming forward of women who've been abused is the first sign of civilization I've seen from social media. It gives some justification for optimism.
7
No. Powerless women will still be vulnerable, and afraid to report abuse. And Human Resources are set up to circle the wagons round those in power, not those who are abused.
Even if there are fewer sexual harassment incidents in the short run due to the Weinstein monster, there will be no stopping of other forms of abuse and harassment -- financial, emotional, or physical. Power imbalances have a way of bringing out the worst aspects of human nature. Many of the (expletives) in power like it that way.
26
But at least with what's surfacing in Weinstein's case--men (and women) who abuse and sexually harass other know they run the risk of being publicly outed.
4
In the 21st century, we still have a worldwide culture of male dominance, which is in no small part due to eons of religious influence in all cultures. Name one of the world's dominant religions, catholicism, protestantism, islam, judaism, hinduism, even buddhism, where patriarchy is not at the very foundation of each religion. Our notion of god is male, and very deeply embedded. Humans will have to arrive at a consensus of parity between the genders before sexual harassment and other ills connected to gender inequality can finally be eradicated.
32
You have identified the root of the problem. Thank you.
1
That is correct - every religion is male-dominated and male-centric. Which proves that they are all created by men, not “god”.
1
This article was exactly on point and very precise about the remedies required to lessen the endemic problem of sexual harassment in the workplace. The article also points out that this is a problem that predominantly affects women and that is perpetrated predominantly by men.
Too bad that the title goes one step further and intimates that the problems is one that is perpetrated by the majority of men - which is highly inaccurate. The minority of men that perpetrate acts of harassment are un-ignorable and outsized their impact, but they are most definitely not a majority. Men don't need reform, our society does. Men who do not perform such acts need to feel obligated to report then when seen, and women need to feel empowered to report them when suffered (or seen). Blaming men is not a solution, it is the silence that must end.
20
David, every woman I know--and as a septuagenarian, I know many--has been harassed, molested, and/or raped: on the street, in the workplace, in school, by male relatives, by strangers, etc. Every woman. If men who harass are a minority, they sure get around. Either that, or the minority is a lot larger than you imagine.
5
Amen to all of that editorial, and let me add one point:
If this proves to have been a turning point in American society, it will bring peace to the ghosts of all those men who did grow up disgusted by the harassment of women and who, when the moment came, stepped in and stood up to a harasser.
A man or boy who doesn't join in locker-room humor and doesn't pretend to like it will sometimes know a peculiar form of loneliness or even harassment. Fathers of such boys will rejoice for them as well as for girls when all that becomes a thing of the benighted past.
18
For true reform to happen both men and women need to change but for that to happen we need to restructure a culture that creates the conditions for sexual harassment in the first place. It should begin with the abolition of co-ed dorms in colleges and universities and a return to an emphasis on the old-fashioned values of politeness and chivalry.
Women should dress more modestly. Throw out the décolletage and mini-skirts that invite attention. Men should cease wolf-whistles, cat-calling and other lewd and lascivious behaviors. It might help also to avoid the temptation of extra-marital affairs and covert assignations that have been par and parcel of the business world for the past fifty years. These immoral behaviors have consequences.
The reality is that it will take more than a generation to change bad behaviors. Therefore, children, boys and girls, should be taught manners and the importance of mutual respect at a very early age. Teenage dating must never occur without a chaperone. And while we are at it, Americans might want to protest the highly sexually charged culture foisted upon us by advertising and movies with their wallets and pocketbooks.
Having good role models in public officials beginning with the President of the United States might also be helpful with the exceptions of course of Presidents Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Bush, and Clinton.
5
Don't hold your breath waiting, Peter.
2
Once again a man finds women being responsible for men's thoughts and behavior. You'll note that while "Men should cease wolf-whistles, cat-calling..." that women are expected to "dress more modestly. Throw out the décolletage and mini-skirts that invite attention..."
Men are called only too change how they react if women didn't tempt them in the first place.
Civility would go a long way to helping so many of current societies ills. However a civility does not require a suppression of women's being beneath a burka.
1
In general, I would answer the title question of this article with a NO.
The sexual predatoriness of the male, driven by the millennia of male dominance in the society, is not easy to eradicate by reeducation. A more effective solution might be for women, figuratively speaking, to "Get your gun", and be trained in other methods of self defense and effective neutralization of the assailants.
3
Violence in the workplace will result in firing.
1
Absolutely disgusting. "Get your gun." Right. Let's add to the 30,000 victims of gun violence each year - with more violence - to advance your political agenda. And your destructive reasoning.
1
Is Harvey Weinstein and unreformed men the root of the problem here, or is there something deeper within the culture which affects how women are viewed and treated?
I remember watching an interview of a group of Democratic women after the 2016 election; they basically said they did not vote for Clinton because a woman could not do the job of President. That sort of thinking translates into much of the behavior towards women...And what will reform that?
6
Will things change? I've been around too long to be very optimistic. Sorry.
7
I hear the women’s stories of harassment by powerful men. I hear the stories of men abusing women in exchange for possible career advancement. I have indeed several tales to tell of my own. In my opinion we need to start early with children, helping them to respect those things and persons overwhich they seem to have power, such as animals, disadvantaged and handicapped people. These lessons can come at a very early age. There will undoubtedly always be sociopaths, but I think we could eliminate much of the workplace abuse with education, better resources for victims, and better role models for young men. How are you doing with Barron, Mr. Trump? Has he heard you on the famous tapes? What do you say to him? I don’t see good examples coming from you. We need better men than you showing our young men how to behave. We need BETTER.
28
Very little reform is expected, sadly. most of these guys will have an act 2, allowed by the still male-dominated hierarchy. Some will come back in a few years. just ask Brian Williams or Steve Kroft
6
If this is the year when the tide finally turns (I'm not convinced it is), it may paradoxically be due, in part, to widespread revulsion and shame that we elected a president who brazenly admitted to this behavior, and who has flaunted and "legitimized" sexist views and other forms of bigotry. That said, we must remember that in the full secrecy of the ballot box, Trump appears to have won a majority of the votes of white women---even as he ran against a white woman with an openly sexist campaign. That highlights the complexity of dealing with this and related issues.
11
The reports of sexual harassment are disturbing. Criminal investigations should be done and proven perpetrators punished under the law. But this editorial, and other op ed pieces, strongly imply guilt by male gender in a blatant attempt to stereotype all men as either directly guilty of harassment or of tacitly supporting their outrageous behavior. Apart from being demonstrably untrue, it is a lie being told with a political agenda far beyond simply protecting women. Make your own conclusions about what that agenda might be, I have made mine. In the mean time the editorial states that 25% of all women alive in the US have been sexually assaulted and their further implication is that 25%, or more, of all men alive did the assaulting. This is a false accusation. A tiny minority of men are responsible for these assaults and it is these men that merit your disdain and punishment. Its fascinating to watch those who vehemently argue that each of us be judged as individuals, abandon those principles, in this case for female sexual harassment, when it serves their larger political purpose. This type of mendacity and moral inconsistency taints their argument and invalidates their purpose.
14
I say, Follow the Money, that's what this is largely about.
This well-made point will not please the media mob.
1