How about this whopper: societies with more guns have fewer crimes and murders?? That's a lie so ludicrous, I'm surprised Trump didn't say it.
A legislator who can't gracefully handle questions from an 11-year-old has no business working in government.
31
Be good scouts and don't question authority! How dare you!
5
Are we supposed to believe 11-year-old Ames made up these questions himself? Or did mom prime the pump?
6
New Cub Scout merit badge: "Shameless Servility toward the Gun Lobby."
6
Disappointing to see the mother make her son a pawn in a political game. Sure, let your kid ask a question if he likes. But don't record it and put it on the Internet. Don't make a Cub Scout fight in a political battle. Let him be a kid.
6
So now a bright kid with an honest question in an appropriate forum gets kicked out of his Cub Scout den? Really? And that's OK with the BSA? Is the BSA a shill for the Republican Party now--do state senators need the BSA to protect them from the questions of 11-year-olds?
The Cub Scout leader deserves the boot, NOT the kid.
17
For Senator Marble, who believes that “the more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed,” may I suggest a one-way ticket to El Salvador.
14
Mayfield deserves an immediate promotion to Eagle Scout, rather than get thrown under the bus for his courage to speak up on an issue that 'grown up' politicians prefer to sweep under the carpet. Although he has since joined another Den, this whole affair will certainly leave this kid with a bad taste in mouth on scouting. Totally wrong on the part of Mayfield's den 'leader'.
7
The Emperor has no clothes, and it takes a child to point that out.
13
Go Ames. You should be proud of yourself for thinking deeply and asking meaningful questions of a person who is responsible for making decisions and policy that affect us all. The pack leader and the den leader should have been thrilled that at least one of their scouts took the opportunity to question a legislator so seriously. Both leaders should be relieved of their positions with the Cub Scouts.
6
An 11-year-old vs. an elected state senator. Mis-match! Better slap down the kid and protect the legislator who is unable to respond sensibly to a question posed to her.
7
If Ames is the future of this country, we might just be okay after all. Between this kid and the 14 year-old actor from Stranger Things who fired his talent agent after allegations of sexual assault surfaced, I’m feeling hopeful for the next generation of men.
11
Boys Scouts and gun control is are not two subjects that would normally collide, but having read this article I think the two should cross paths more often. Eleven year old cub scout Ames Mayfield was kicked out of his boy scout troop when he asked Colorado State Senator "Why on earth would you want somebody who beats their wife to have access to a gun?" This is a very thought provoking question and when I was eleven this question probably wouldn't have crossed my mind let alone the idea to question state government officials about the controversial topic. Ames Mayfield is obviously a very intelligent child and I would route for the Boys Scout of America to encourage what this early civil activism. If encouraged these children would probably grow up thinking more about their rights and what their government is doing for their future. Dismissal of this scout shouldn't have been an option, he did oppose a political figure he was asking questions he believed in which should never have led to what happened to him. I'm gad that the Boy Scouts of America allowed Ames to join another troop and I hope he continues to push the boundaries with this political awareness.
12
The Scout Law says among other things that a Scout shall be both "Friendly and Courteous". Sounds to me like this scout failed both of these laws in his berating their adult guest. I don't know if they actually dismissed him from his pack but it sounds like some type of disipline was warranted.
3
Or you can go watch the video instead of making assumptions and judgements.
9
Gun ownership is a right, see the Second Amendment and the related Supreme Court cases, Heller and the Illinois case making the Second Amendment right applicable to the states. Health care is not in fact a "right" and I say good because if it was the taxes everyone would have to pay would go up substantially. This is not some nefarious scheme invented by Republicans as the young man's question would seem to imply.
2
I give this boy lots of credit. My long experience as a teacher showed me that this is the age at which children develop great moral concern. . . often on topics other than those encountered at home.
13
My 11 year-old daughter is currently in her 6th year of Girl Scouts, and my older daughter was a scout for five years. I was also a Girl Scout for many years, and I cannot even imagine circumstances in which a girl would be asked to leave her troop. How does this action fit into the mission of the Boy Scouts of America? As a patent I find this situation to be extremely disturbing.
17
I'm about to take my son to a Cub Scout den meeting in a couple of hours. The dens are run mainly by parents. The Boy Scouts (BSA) organization provides general outlines, but the character/atmosphere of each den is determined by the group of parents that attend it. "Cub Scout is exiled" sounds like the BSA kicked him out, but this is clearly the doing of a single person/parent who happens to be the volunteer leader of that particular den. Shame on him/her for punishing a child for expressing his thoughts. Especially in America, in 2017. Another example of parents permanently determining the course of the lives of their children, for better or for worse. The latter is very sad to witness on a daily basis...
11
Right out of the Trump playbook - blame the questioner and exile him/her. Okay, it's a bit unusual for an 11-year-old to come prepared with a two-minute "political" question, but politicians need to be prepared to answer for their stands on issues like gun-control, even to kindergarteners. It's clear that Ms. Marble can't stand the idea of being queried on this issue, let alone by a child.
7
I have a hard time believing he came up with that question on his own.
9
And why would that matter even if true? The questions are legitimate, and he sounds like an intelligent young man.
14
I don't have a hard time believing that an informed 11 year old could see the tragedy in Las Vegas and want to know what his government was going to do about it.
10
I have a feeling that State Senator Vicki Marble or the Republicans put pressure on the BSA, who then pressured the pack leader to sack Ames Mayfield.
There's nothing like the Republicans starting to pick on children!
18
Maybe the cub scout leaders were fed up dealing with a crazy mother that would make her kids bring up her own political agenda at cub scout meetings. This probably is not a one off the mom sounds like a kook. No way a kid 11 years old asks that question in those words. Can't blame them for kicking the kid(and crazy mother) out.
9
Sorry to hear that you haven't been around really smart and socially aware 11-year-olds, Jason. But I have. My 9-year-old grandson can easily frame questions as sophisticated as the child in this news story, without any coaching at all. Whenever I ask him how he has developed such complex and well-spoken ideas, he looks at me with some exasperation and says, "Well, I can read, you know." And he can formulate objections to ideas with which he disagrees without resorting to lame insults like "kook" and "crazy."
25
A bit harsh wording in the title, don't you think, Editors? May I remind you of the definition of "exile," according to Merriam-Webster: "the state or a period of forced absence from one's country or home." The Boy Scouts of America is an organization, not a country. While I think the choice made by the Scout's leaders was a poor one, I think this headline was even more so. Truly, it feels like clickbait that I would normally associate with less reputable news website than the Times.
On the bright side, I appreciate your giving me an excellent example of media bias to share with my students.
4
Being forced to leave the pack, filled with friends, probably feels like exile to a child. It was an unnecessary, draconian punishment for the child's asking questions the pack leader didn't like or found distasteful. It could have been handled as a positive teaching moment with tact or even humor. Sadly, tact, civility and humor seemed to have largely vanished since the election.
21
Share with your students the definition of "poetic license" while your at it. I bet they have enough imagination to understand how "exile" can be nuanced to apply to the subject of the article.
3
And the word you would have preferred to "exile" is?
3
How is this anything but a violation of Ames Mayfield's First Amendment rights?
14
I find it bitterly ironic that young Ames Mayfield's reasonable questioning of a politician was deemed "too politically charged” by his den leader and led to his being ousted from his den. Yet, the Boy Scouts of America allowed our toxic 45th president to hijack the BSA Jamboree with his peculiar brand of highly negative and inappropriate political ramblings. I have faith in the future of Ames Mayfield and the guidance of his mother. I can't say the same for that of the BSA or our republic.
36
“I was astonished that you blamed black people for poor health and poverty because of all the chicken and barbecue they eat,” Ames said.
“I didn’t,” Ms. Marble responded. “That was made up by the media. So, you want to believe it? You believe it. But that’s not how it went down. I didn’t do that. That was false. Get both sides of the story.”
Ms. Lost-Her-Marbles needs to take another look at how to answer questions from young citizens, even if she may have found the question to be impertinent. It would appear that this Colorado Republican is just as clueless as the current occupant of the White House.
27
Donald Trump turned the Scouts Jamboree into a no holds barred campaign rally. The local troupe has no business silencing this youngster.
27
What kinds of questions were they expecting? "Were you a Girl Scout? What was your favorite cookie?" Besides, it sounds like other political topics were welcome.
Now, it does sound like the young man took too much time with his question. It would have been wise for the organizers to set a limit beforehand - "you have 30 seconds to ask your question."
4
I suppose the den patrol he formally belonged to is known as the "Snowflakes"?
9
“The more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed.” The state senator has obviously never been outside of the United States.
28
You are my hero Ames Mayfield!!
Speaking truth to power is a lesson we all must learn. I am so proud of you!
25
Old Boy Scout oath: To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.
New Boy Scout oath: To keep myself physically strong and learn to equivocate like a den leader.
12
Keep track of this kid, I want to vote for him for whatever office he runs for. Good for him. Where's the so-called grown ups when it comes to making our legislators responsible for what they do and say??? This kid nailed it. Congrats Kid!
24
Finally someone who can ask a real, honest question hoping to get back a real, honest answer. Senator Marble, an 11 year old just had you for lunch. You not only failed him but you failed your constituents and your oath of office.
His question, “Why on earth would you want somebody who beats their wife to have access to a gun?” is pure, direct and to the point. And you choked, and his leadership failed an 11 year old.
Sadly, you should have been thrown out of the Senate for not answering the question more than he being tossed out of his den for asking the question.
No wonder Congress has such low approval ratings.
35
It sounds as if the scout leader was unprepared.
10
YES! Scout leaders are VOLUNTEERS, they are parents of other scouts who scrape time together to help lead their kids. Let this be a lesson to all scout parents, go to village hall and meet the mayor.
1
While I am in agreement with the boy's point of view on gun control and health care, I cannot help finding something amiss in this episode. First, he asks an incredibly long-winded question, which is in itself insulting. Even a journalist asking a question that long would deserve a rebuke for dominating a public forum. Then, he uses language that clearly seemed to have been influenced by an adult to conflate the barbecue and diabetes issues, something a professional journalist might do, but which an 11-year-old would have trouble doing unless he were fed the information by an adult. Then, on top of all this, the local medias makes a cause celebre of him. I am old enough to remember when children respected adults, and when those adults didn't use children as puppets to mouth their opinions, and when news organizations understood that children should be allowed to remain children and not be transformed into miniature political stalking horses. Very unfortunate. And, as I said, I am a solid Democrat who would like nothing better than for all those millions of guns in this country to disappear.
11
As I mentioned in a comment above, I'm really sorry that some folks seem to have never been around really bright children who are perfectly capable of reading the news, formulating their own opinions, and speaking their minds. These kids are incredibly aware of the gun violence in our country, and they feel at risk. You state that you are an older adult; I don't know how old you are, of course, but I'm guessing you are of an age when there were essentially no school shootings and Americans weren't armed to the teeth at the current rate. This kid had every right to ask a two-minute question about such a tremendous problem in our country. Implying that all 11-year-olds should be seen but not heard or are too immature or ill-informed to know about the state of affairs in our country suggests that you might learn something if you would stop and listen to the young minds around you.
7
Politically weaponizing children, YES, children, is wrong...and that is what the parents of this boy did. Shame on them.
8
Honestly if you can't answer the questions of an 11-year old, you should leave YOUR organization, not him.
25
This very smart and inquisitive boy learned a big lesson on how New Republican are incapable of defending some of their outrageous positions, such as arming domestic abusers. Time for Colorado media to call attention to this state reps fear of the truth and punishment of inquisitive children.
15
dont talk politics with some people.. or you get problems.
3
Don't talk politics with your State Senator?
2
Hopefully the BSA has replaced den leader #1, and has removed him from the organization for life.
10
It wouldn't matter if the other parents wanted him to continue leading their kids. Anyone can be a Den Leader in name and then that parent could still lead. In Cub Scouts all the kids parents are required to be there all the time. For the most part this is 6-8 families with kids who are all friends, and often the parents are all friends too. It's likely this kid and his parents were not part of their group and didn't fit in.
1
Ames Mayfield, your fair begins at 11! Great for you.
2
As an Eagle Scout, Cub Scout Leader and Scout parent I would like to point out that Cub Scouts is entirely parent run at the local level, the events of this story are all on the parents not the organization.
I imagine a group of parents could be upset having to explain to their 11 year old kids about why people would beat their wives among other topics. Why exactly did he have a "long list" of questions that seem way above the elementary school level of Cub Scouts. The questions were clearly the boys parents and meant to be inflammatory by their biases like "common sense gun laws" and the question on diet. The Den Leader should have reviewed the questions, but like all working parents who has the time to read other peoples questions. Assuming they even sent you a copy of them ahead of time. The other parents in the Den likely no longer wanted anything to do with this family. Pack/Den leaders being volunteer parents are not trained in things like this.
What would you have done if 6 families said either he leaves or we do? Even if you said, go ahead and leave, then what? You have a single boy in a Den with no leader, which would make the boy feel ostracized to all the other boys. Boys he will see in school everyday. A different Pack was the only option at that point, hardly an exile.
Parents make poor choices and the kids bear the result, sadly nothing new to see here.
5
I think there's an even chance that we're missing some context. While it very well may be true that the Den leader overreacted, it's also possible that there's more to the story. Given the sophisticated wording of the two minute long inflammatory question, it appears as though there was a lot of parental involvement. While parental involvement is a good thing, in general, I have to wonder if the same parent that would coach their child to deliver such a loaded bundle of statements/questions has a history of making things difficult for the Den leader, and this was the proverbial final straw.
4
Ms Marble felt free to share her minority view that a massacre in Las Vegas could be prevented with gun free zones with not a shred of evidence.
Thankfully even an 11yo saw through her tattered argument. After all, people like her are fouling the nest for next generation youngsters like him with their near religious beliefs that have nothing to do with actual Reality.
Sail On Ames. I hope your new Scout troop values free speech more than your last “den” did. You have put Marble on our radar- thanks.
19
“the more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed.”
The Cub Scouts should allow, nay require, each Scout to bring a gun to events. Then they wouldn't squabble over the last cupcake.
7
I’ll say it, Ms Marble sounds like a racist.
13
Some kids are wise. Ames is one of them. Just go check out how he speaks live, without prompting. He is a thoughtful person, raised right. Which obviously can not be said of the frightful Den leader or inane Vicki Marble. Unbelievable.
So what is the organization at large doing about it? What if a conservative kid was forced out by a liberal scout Den leader for asking a liberal politician why she hated guns so much when they are so wonderful and do the world so much good? What would Boy Scouts of America do exactly? Pat everyone on the head?
17
I was a co-den leader years ago, and this boy is being doubly punished. A Den is a small group of about 8 boys who are all friends. So, the den leader has hurt the boy by banishing him from his group of friends who meet and do fun things together. That is shameful.
14
The Den Leader would not have banished the boy unless all the other Den parents wanted that family gone. All those boys likely went to the same school together and all the parents would have had to interact with other on a regular basis. You don't banish someone that you see that regularly unless you really dislike them.
3
And how do YOU know that? That hasn't been my experience at all. I think it is more likely that the women den leader was embarrassed by the kid's questions.
2
Eagle Scout here.
Yet another in a long line of incidents in which The Boy Scouts of America failed their young charges for the sake of conservative politics or economic expediency.
A very long line.
This is an organization with an obvious, yet covert political agenda. An organization that betrays its own fundamental laws and oath regularly.
Their real problem is Trump-like in nature: they feel obliged to dumbly mouth their former oath and, when the boys take them literally and do a bang-up job of it, the BSA is left trying to figure how to follow their nasty inclinations and also not deny the very oath that draws families to them in the first place.
Thankfully, it's an organization in rapid decline, evidenced by its belated recognition that girls are people too.
What a cynical money grab, and demeaning with its promise that maybe some day girls could become full members. Unless, of course, they find a pot of money in the meantime and no longer need girls' dues.
This is an organization that betrayed its mission decades ago. It deserves everything coming its way.
Those who complain the boy was "primed" are undoubtedly also those who build their kids' Pinewood Derby cars for them (because real Americans are winners first) and fudge accomplishments leading to merit badges and rank.
Honestly this, and the comments here demeaning a boy who asked a simple question and was lied to a few times on tape by an elected representative, are just disgusting.
15
Hurray for you Ames.
Hateful of Ms. Marble.
SSM
5
I agree 100% with Master Ames, but I wonder if he was not in some ways undercut by his mother's decision to put this lengthy Q & non-A on line. That turns everything into a shouting match that in principle is no different from a town hall Q&A but in fact has volume and impact of a kind that seems to be destroying our political discourse. It's good to expose Sen. Marble and her shameful ignorance of, for example, what happened to the mass-murder rate in Australia when they banned assault weapons, but an 11-yr-old kid giving such a long and rhetorically powerful speech and then being posted on the internet--it smacks of manipulation or staging.
1
Sen. Marble and the Cub Scout leader have provided such a powerful lesson on the freedom of speech in modern day America. Which is that, if you have the temerity to question and challenge those more powerful than you, the powerful will try a hard as they can to silence you, even if you're only 11. So, you will have to fight for what should be your rights. Especially if you are bold enough to question the power and prerogatives of the NRA, the gun industry, and the rabid gun nuts who support them, and who will back their "rights" for wholly unfettered access to lethal weapons with threats to the rights of others.
5
Is it bad manners to bring up gun control and health care? To a republican, well yes.
9
The irony in this story is while a 10 year old asked a mature question (scripted or not), the adult answered with a simplistic child-like response.
9
The den leader and pack leader who were responsible for exiling Ames deserve condemnation. But, those who are criticizing the entire Scouting movement have ignored the critical points that Ames has been accepted by another den and the local Boy Scout Troop condemned his treatment. Don't make the mistake of assuming that the Scouting movement is a monolith of conservative-values adults.
I was a Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster for ten years during the period shortly after the BSA announced its no-gays policy. During that time, our troop included boys who were pretty clearly gay, even if they were not out and perhaps not yet aware of it themselves. No one ever asked that those young men be kicked out of the troop. Had the issue arisen, I would have quit rather than enforce the discriminatory policy adopted by the BSA's national leadership. I know that at least one other Scoutmaster in our troop felt exactly the same as I. A search of news articles during the first decade of this century will yield many reports of local troops pushing back, and refusing to enforce, the national policy.
The point is that, like any large organization open to the public, Boy Scouts is populated by (volunteer) adults holding a wide range of political, cultural, and religious views. Don't condemn all of Scouting for a few miscreants like the den and pack leaders here.
3
You've articulated my point way better than I did.
These Cub Leaders are just normal parents falling withing a spectrum of politics, who are volunteering their time and doing the best they can to teach values to the boys. We're not perfect and neither is the organization, but are trying to help the scouts as much as we can (both to be good citizens as well as courteous young men).
If the Den Leader got it wrong in this case, maybe we can try to be a little forgiving. I know that I get pretty frazzled with some of our guys' behavior, so I can understand being angry that one of the scouts was being rude to a guest. Remember that these are just parents trying their best and sometimes in hindsight you realize that things could have been done better.
Honestly, I thought the idea of trading dens was kind of a minimal inconvenience in the scheme of things and one that helped to keep the kid in scouting while handling the frustration of the Den Leader. Truth be told, I'm kinda sympathetic because that would probably be a solution I would choose if a Den Leader and a scout weren't getting along for any reason.
In any case, my bigger point is that we should be a little more tolerant and understanding of parent volunteers giving their time for other people's kids. Even if we don't agree with everything they do, at least they're out there trying, which is more than most people do.
2
People are missing salient details. For starters, all of the boys were asked to have relevant, current questions for the rep. Only one had a written speech that went on for over two minutes before being interrupted. Only one had a mom video taping the interaction to post online.
Second, dens are small groups that typically meet weekly in the den leader's home. If you don't trust the mom of one of the scouts to act responsibly or to use scouts to score political points are you really going to want to have to interact with that person every week in your home?
4
When an 11 year old can best a state senator that sure drives home the sad state of our politicians. Then again she was a republican, and it was in Colorado. Nuff said. My advice to Ames Mayfield is you're too good for the BSA.
3
I may not agree with Ames Mayfield’s views; but I sure like his style. Any time any politician regardless of party is made to squirm is a good thing.
Rhonda Fields (D) has abused her powers as a representative and now a senator promoting gun control because of a deeply tragic event in her life where a gang member killed her son and his girlfriend because her son was going to testify against the gangster in another murder case. Her son's killer rightfully sits on death row, and she has bucked the party line to abolish the death penalty in Colorado for obvious personal reasons.
Wow--Mrs. Marble asked them to get the story straight and they got the story straight. The kid was right to question her about that chicken and barbecue statement. If it was a joke, she needs to bone up on her comedy chops. If it was from her heart--she needs to listen to her own words and understand how comments like that might be perceived.
2
Now children are not supposed to ask tough questions. Is the next step changing the name of the Boy Scouts to Trump Scouts? Or maybe Trump Youth?
4
This incident embodies why I think girls and young women should steer clear of the Boy Scouts’ self-interested offer to let girls join and stick with the Girl Scouts. Over the years, the Boy Scout have shown themselves to be militaristic, homophobic, racist, and, until they needed to pad their membership rolls, sexist. The Girl Scouts has a far better record of living up to higher ideals of public service, humanity, and moral behavior.
2
Congratulations to Ames Mayfield for standing up to Senator Marble. Next time ask Senator Marble how much money she has accepted from the gun industry. By the way, her assertion that “the more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed" is of course demonstrably, ridiculously false.
4
"The more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed."
"......gun ownership was a right, while health was seen as a privilege."
Ugh. The scout appears to be a lot brighter than the pol.
3
This is just another in the long list of examples of a pompous, arrogant(and obviously racist) politician whom, once elected, feels she is not accountable to her constituents whatsoever, no matter their age and the fact that she just couldn't leave it alone and went out of her way to see that an eleven year old boy was punished, just reminds one of someone else, doesn't it? Who elects these people and why?
What a sad day for America, what is happening to you?
17
Congratulations, Ames, for your deep thinking and willingness to ask legitimate questions of so-called leaders. We look forward to the positive impact you will have in future years.
19
I sense a presidential medal of freedom for the scoutmaster who suppressed the free speech of this young fellow.
9
Sounds like the young man was well coached with his questioning but still I give him credit for holding (Lost Her) Marbles accountable. That's what good sensible people need to do as much as possible. These mostly useless gutless wonders in Washington who "represent" us need to know that's the new order of things and that goes up to the nut case, bum president. This isn't a sideshow or a circus - these are life and death issues involving guns and health care and so on. Get with it or you will be thrown out. Or impeached!!
5
This kid should be given a reward for coming up with a question that made a politician rightfully uncomfortable. It's part of our great American tradition to question authority, going right back to the founders.
Hey kid : don't worry if that organization doesn't want you. They have been on the wrong side of history from the get-go. Keep asking difficult questions to the people in charge - it is the best way imaginable to ensure yourself a future different from the Orwellian path that Trump and his Tea Party and the White-Power cons are taking us ..... and good on you kid. We need more bright inquisitive people like yourself keeping these crooks honest.
8
Ask me if I'm skeptical about the questions having been composed entirely by this 11-year-old.
3
John
Given this particular boy, and his deep involvement with politics outside the Scouts, I wonder why you doubt him.
And I wonder why you think it matters in the least.
This grubby politician was caught in a lie,and like her hero in Washington, her first response is to try to crush an eleven year old kid?
Then the Scouts toss the boy out on his ear?
If nothing else, I'd think this state senator would be the last person you want fighting for your interests. What a baby.
If you had troubled yourself to listen to the video, you would see his questions were of a piece with the other Scouts. Marble was trapped by her own dishonesty, and she knew it.
Why you need to believe the boy was "primed" is beyond me. These mindless breed of conservative is not so hard to catch. And you have a remarkably low opinion of eleven year olds.
1
Why does it matter? The politician should have answered clearly and respectfully. She is paid by tax dollars to represent all constituents, regardless of age, race, gender or political beliefs. And she should certainly have not sought to punish a Cub Scout for asking a question. What a pathetic, cowardly bully.
2
This young man has outgrown the Cub Scouts. And if the Cub Scouts don't make amends, they are destined to be history's dust.
6
Instead of getting thrown out, the kid should have received a merit badge for civic engagement.
11
hmm. I recall being a Cub Scout in the late 70's. My mom was Den Mother for a while. The only thing we were interested in as cub scouts were baseball, Star Wars, Kristy McNichol, and going to the water park. You know, the kinds of things that kids at that age are supposed to be interested in. Nothing worse than adults using kids as pawns for political disagreements or conversations. Sad really.
4
Who cares who formulated the question. The kid learned an important civic lesson (questioning our legislators voting decisions), that the pack leaders were revealed to be narrow minded & intolerant, & he learned about domestic violence & gun control. Surely all that is more beneficial than selling overpriced popcorn & building pinewood derby cars or whatever they do these days in cub scouts.
1
Really? It'ssad that his parents are getting him engaged in important political issues? No, what's sad is that an elected official, whose salary is paid by tax dollars, not only couldn't answer a kid's question truthfully, but sought to have him punished for asking.
2
I thought about these issues when I was Ames' age. Sad that you think this child is shackled by your limited intelligence. He obviously possesses a greater mind.
4
Now the 'conservative" right is attempting to further block the First amendment in the Scouts, fully with the Scout's support?!? What ever happened to the Government employees -State Senator Vicki Marble IS an elected EMPLOYEE!- having to answer to us? This woman is actually afraid of a extremely smart CUB SCOUT?!?
5
Just because Trump politicized a speech at a scouting jamboree, and in a very partisan way -- both of which actions were improper-- doesn't make it right for some Cub Scout in uniform (or his doting mama) to make a partisan issue out of the opportunity to "ask questions" of a member of Congress.
As far as transferring the kid out of the den, sounds like the politics of mama and the den leader are not on the same page so perhaps that's just as well.
It would be nice if so-called adults could just let kids enjoy their childhood now and then instead of converting everything into something that suits someone's agenda.
I really enjoyed being in a Brownie troop and then in the Girl Scouts as well. To my recollection no one ever tried to make political hay out of anything, although we were encouraged to understand how government worked -- which I presume was an intended part of the Cub Scouts' visit to that congresswoman from Colorado-- and so to become engaged in civic life from an early age.
It's possible to do that without turning an event into a hyper-partisan encounter. Perhaps this particular incident was an anomaly. That's a guess on my part but the Times might have asked around and fetched us a little more perspective on whether other Cub Scout visits with Congress critters commonly turn into political confrontations. Otherwise to me this is just another example of someone using social media to manufacture political controversy.
4
It's obvious from some of the comments here that some people just didn't read much as older children so they assume that any child who is articulate and well-spoken is a puppet of his/her parents and has no independent thoughts. My diary from when I was younger than 11 has all kinds of entries about what I was reading at the time--and what I was thinking about national and world events. My parents didn't have a whole lot to do with this other than getting me a library card. Well, that's not entirely true. They let me know that I was bright enough to think for myself, a message I did my best to convey to my kids and now to my grandchildren.
2
sounds like one smart kid...
6
This kid for run for the state senator's seat when he turns 18.
9
Then den leader who ousted the boy for asking intelligent questions, should be fired. He/she is no leader.
9
ya, how dare that leader have a different opinion
1
It seems that the BSA are becoming the Trump "youth" of America.
3
Maybe he was coached; maybe he wasn't. Bottom line is that the Senator was mad because an 11-year-old asked her a tough question she couldn't dodge. The Cub Scout was then moved to another Den, providing a teaching moment--that free speech has consequences. I hope his parents keep encouraging him to question what the accepted norms are; the country needs it.
101
The mom is getting the attention she seemed to want, but I'm surprised the story focuses on the den change. As I understand it, it's not uncommon for dens to reconfigure as kids grow apart. Surely it's not news when kids, or their parents, change dens because they don't get along great with the others or find a den that's a better fit. It seems likely that the den change was more about how the parents got along than the kid's question.
The real news story here is how awful the state senator's answers were.
“He communicated that my son was no longer welcome back to the den,” she said. I found this interesting.
4
The unnamed Cub Scout Leader should be exiled from his position for failing to have or demonstrate the kind of backbone, integrity and character which is one of the cornerstones of this organization. As far as I can see, young Mr. Mayfield showed more of these qualities in his mere 11 years of age than did his cub scout leader. Ames - you rock big time! Job well done.
15
How many actually believe that the Cub Scout drafted that question on his own?
3
No different than parents bringing their children to "pro-life" rallies.
6
Who cares? The point is that a State Senator should have a reasonable, appropriate answer ready for pretty much any question thrown at them by anybody. Otherwise, get ready to be booted.
3
I believe it's perfectly possible he wrote this himself. Each weekend, I am conversing with a 9-year-old grandson who asks equally complex questions. His momma did, too, when she was that age. There are well-read and thoughtful kids out there, you know.
Thank you Ames for asking those relevant questions. I am sorry the Boy Scouts didn’t stand for free respectful
Speech.
14
Nothing will happen to the State Senator, no policy or law will change, business as usual will continue. And they wonder why there is so much campus outrage, once kids grow up and see the futility of the system.
2
Two things seem evident here. The den leader was a republican and he was upset that the republican politician he invited was challenged. Then driven by his upset he acted against the “offending” scout. Is this the way a mature leader should behave? Is this the sort of example he should be setting for the rest of the kids?
11
As an Eagle Scout and OA member, who began Scouting as a Cub and went through Explorers, I have been saddened and angered by the Republicans' influence on the Scouting movement. The response of the Cubmaster and Den leaders is a violation of the Cub Scout Oath, Scout Law, and US Constitution.
Michael L Reynolds
Rome, GA
18
You would think that the best of the best would be our political leaders. However, as we can see our political leaders are mostly the worst of the worst in our society.
8
Ames Mayfield has my vote for President in 2044.
13
We should be so proud that our children feel they can ask questions of people in power. Wish adults had the same integrity. Good for you Ames and SHAME ON the BSA for not backing democracy.
4
Of course it should have been the scout leader who was removed but this child is learning an important lesson: that an adult in a position of power and authority is not necessarily correct, trustworthy, competent, or sincere.
13
Several commentators are surprised at how articulate Ames' question was, assuming that he must have had help or been "trained" or "coached." As a parent of 2 politically aware, articulate kids, I don't find it hard to believe the impetus came from the boy. My kids expressed strong opinions about political subjects at that age. Whether his parents offered guidance in writing his question is irrelevant. This Cub Scouts' event was an exercise in civic engagement. I think Ames did his homework well.
14
Thank goodness you wrote this, Josh. I've added several comments here about the well-read and well-spoken kids in my life who would have been entirely capable of expressing themselves like the child in this story. I appreciate your making this same point!
We're still waiting for an answer to Ames' question -
Why, in this country, is gun ownership considered to be a right - while basic, decent health care is a privilege ?
How about it politicians - both Republicans and Democrats -?
Ames - along with the rest of us - are still waiting...
21
Yes, I really like the succinctness of that question -- could be a great rallying cry for 2018.
1
I will start by saying that I do not like the appearance of what is reported to have occurred to this brave young Cub Scout, as it appears overtly political and unprofessional.
I would, however, note that organizations can and should have policies on social media-- just as professional and college sports teams set limits that members are required to adhere. I do not think that it would be a violation of anyone's freedom of speech for an organization to have a policy limiting the distribution of photos or videos of their organization's activities-- especially when those organizations and clubs involve children. Those policies should however be set prior to being enforced, and not used retroactively as a punishment.
1
This is just one more example - and a singularly sad one given the age of the victim - that "critical thought" in our culture is on life support. I hope that Ames will do well in his new den and that he will continue to ask questions.
9
Imagine if a similar incident happened if a cub scout asked a question to Hillary Clinton that she really would rather had not been asked.
Do you think the local Boy Scout director would have behaved the way the Colorado leader behaved by getting angry at the child and taking him out of his own troop and placing him in another troop?
This kind of "silencing" by the right, especially for a child, has no place in this country.
My guess is Ms. Marble was embarrassed by the question because her NRA-pleasing answer that guns make us safer really makes no sense.
4
Hillary would have answered the question intelligently and thoughtfully and would have praised the kid as well for her courage.
7
Ames really is a brave kid. It's saddening, but not particularly surprising to see a politician respond in such a manner. Honestly, Ames should have been praised for his actions. Boy Scouts used to be about teaching kids to become strong, independent thinkers and leaders, but clearly has fallen short of this ideal. Any den leader who seeks to punish and and silence a child with real, valid, and relevant questions should be the one removed from the community.
Not only was Ames Mayfield asked to prepare a question for Ms. Marble, and in doing so he followed instructions, but his question itself shines as an example of the intelligence and awareness kids possess. The pack leader's decision to no only permit Mayfield in her den was selfish, cowardly, and showed kids that they can't say what they believe and question authority figures with reason without being punished for it.
While the actions of the den leader and Ms. Marble really were wrong, I have to say I'm proud of Ames and his mother for standing up for their rights, and especially for Ames being brave enough to demand answers from a corrupt authority.
5
I was a den leader for 5 years. I would have praised this young boy for his courage and intelligence. I don’t know how his local council can stand for this.
12
I'm glad to see the NYT highlight what is going on around the country. Censorship like this needs to be held up as yet another symptom of what is wrong with the leadership (be it state legislators or Cub Scout leaders) that we surround ourselves with. Bravo to Ames and his parents. The lucky new Scout pack that gets to have Ames as a member should encourage their Cub Scouts to emulate Ames.
6
Why didn't the den leader read the questions prior to the event so he could voice his approval or disapproval? It was the den leader's own laziness and irresponsibility that caused his own embarrassment.
My guess is that, the den leader may have been a supporter of the politician, and was using the scouts as a prop to generate favorable public opinion for the politician, and perhaps himself.
When I ran for the office of class treasurer in 7th grade, I wrote an campaign speech which had to be read and approved by a teacher in charge of student government. I assiduously worked on the speech, and asked my mother to proof read and hone the speech. When the teacher read and approved my speech, his only comment was that, no one would understand it (perhaps because I was capable of writing above the grade level of my class). He had nothing positive to say, and never gave me any credit for my hard work, or thoughtfulness towards the speech.
Being intelligent, and precocious is not looked upon kindly, particularly by people of inferior intellect of character.
3
Neck deep in the Big Muddy
And the Big Fool says to push on.
If a Cub Scout is going to ask questions, then the organization is just not doing its job training cannon fodder.
1
The senator's argument that more guns equals safety has been debunked, and the Las Vegas shootings prove it. Even with dozens of armed Las Vegas police, no one was able to stop one deranged person with an arsenal of guns from murdering fifty-eight people.
8
So this Colorado state representative says " the more guns that we have in our society, the less murders and crime we have " as a response to a question by an 11 year old boy about his question about a domestic abuser's right to own a gun. Is she the type of person that the people of Colorado want to represent them? Does she even have one scintilla of evidence to support her statement that more guns in the public domain reduce crime and murders? She should resign before she makes a bigger fool of herself.
9
I do admire this young scout.
28
If the National Cub Scouts Organization is reading these comments, I hope they see this one:
Shame on you for allowing the cub scout leader in Broomfield, CO, for ducking out and not accepting responsibility for robbing this boy of one of his most sacred rights, the right of free speech. Regardless of anyone's position on guns, the 1st Amendment (and the Bill of Rights) is equally as important as the 2nd Amendment. This was a squandered opportunity to teach these kids an important civic lesson. This individual is NOT a leader. Granted, they are a volunteer, but they hold a critical role in shaping these kids values - including this boy. SHAME ON CUB SCOUTS IF THEY DO NOT TAKE A STRONGER STAND AGAINST ANY KIND OF SUPPRESSION. I will not allow my child to become a Cub Scout, and will advise my friends of the same, if CUB SCOUTS DOES NOT DO THE RIGHT THING AND CALL OUT THIS Cub Scout Leader. So much for being an organization that teaches leadership - what a disappointment.
27
Grow up, Ames, and quick: we need you badly -- as our president President, as a Supreme Court judge, as a man of courage.
Kudos to your parents.
29
After the "trump youth" jamboree this summer, and now this, I am disgusted with scouting. I was a cub, webelo, and boy scout. I attended camp and we even, some of us, voiced our objections to the vietnam war with no backlash. i just can't support scouting as a subversion of democracy, and for that I'm sorry.
26
Sounds like a well educated scout who was willing to ask real questions. Good for him and congrats to his parents for raising such a good child.
39
It is already illegal under Federal law for anyone convicted of domestic violence to buy or posess any firearms or ammunition, even if it is a misdemeanor. So the kid's question was pointless to begin with.
He referred to a bill Marbles had co-sponsored, not to existing regulations. If her bill did not have the effect he thought, all she had to do was explain that. No question is pointless.
7
It's illegal because Lautenberg and lawmakers introduced and passed a bill to make it illegal. Laws can also be repealed by lawmakers introducing and passing bills to repeal them, and furthermore a lawmaker who doesn't support one common-sense gun control quite probably doesn't support other common-sense gun control measures that haven't passed yet, so challenging Marble was not pointless at all.
2
The point you make is "convicted." many abusers are never convicted of the crime, but are known by law enforcement to be abusers. Second, while I'm no state/federal law expert, does the federal law you reference supersede the state law that the representative is behind?
1
The child should not have been removed from his Cub Scout den based on these facts. It's the "leader" that should have been removed.
What lesson have these scouts, especially the boy who was removed, learned about free speech and democracy from this encounter? If I were the child, I would have come away thinking that I was wrong to ask such questions, wrong to voice my concerns, wrong to want to be involved even at a tender age.
Boy Scouts of America needs to reassess its commitment to such children.
133
I suspect that teaching the kids that it's wise to keep his mouth shut in America now is what the BSA is aiming for.
1
now not event 11 year olds - repeating correctly/ documented information -back to those in power- are not safe!
truth is not subjective.
19
Good for Ames Mayfield for calling out the senator for her support for gun violence. Shame on Ft. Collins for electing her.
27
Shame on District 23, of which Fort Collins is a very small and higher-educated part.
2
Sad example of how a politician can be so unprepared for an actual question requiring actual thinking -- in this case the usual pablum didn't work. Journalists could learn a lot from the Ameses.
29
I guess Republicans cannot handle the truth.
27
How ridiculous is this? No matter what your feelings about Mayfield's inquiries, you do not exile an 11 year old child for simply asking questions.
28
Ms. lost her Marbles and the reliably reactionary boys scouts - just a great country.
13
Even as a boy of 10 I was left with the sense that the scouts were not much different from Nazi youth or the Soviet Pioneers that I had heard about. Of course, as a child growing up the fifties any notions that veered from the concept of American exceptionalism were not to be discussed. But I see from the recent events in Colorado and West Virginia that there has been little change. I would recommend to parents that they keep their children out of these organizations that encourage the kind of patriotism that is embodied in our 45th president.
21
The scouts changed quite a lot since the 50s, lost most of their militarism and McCarthy-era indoctrination after the Vietnam War. They aren't perfect, but are a good organization nationally. Local units, however, tend to reflect the values of their parent leaders and chartering organization. Unfortunately this den was led by a small-minded, intolerant person, but that should not reflect on the national organization as a whole, or even the pack, which had another organization happy to accept Ames in spite of/because of? his being willing to speak truth to power.
1
Then they should get rid of this leader but by not doing anything they are supporting brainwashing and fascism.
3
Next time I hear the conservative media gripe about "trigger warnings", they can refer back to this incident. It sounds like the den leader really needed a "safe space".
25
If the Boy Scouts want to keep politics out of scouting they shoud stop inviting politicians as speakers.
31
To keep this in perspective, this scout wasn't "exiled" from the program (a misleading term the NYT should not have chosen); he was transferred from one den to another.
For those who are unfamiliar with the program, a den is a group of 6-8 kids (usually close friends) while a pack is the larger organization, typically containing ten or so dens. Kids may be transferred around dens for any number of reasons, such as there are too many kids from one school, interests in different activities, scheduling issues, or even just because the Den Leader and the kid don't get along.
Ames Mayfield was just transferred from one den to another. He's still in the program; he didn't get punished; no one is saying he wasn't allowed to do what he did; he is not being deprived of any of the activities or awards; he will still be enjoying the Scouting program in the same Pack, just in another den.
While I am not defending the response from the Den Leader (which seemed a little excessive), we really shouldn't be throwing around words like "fascism" and "treason" on this one.
2
Really? An 11 year old boy is banished from his den for asking a simple and smart question, and that's your defense? Did you read the last statement at the end of the article. This is an 11 year old who thought he was dealing with wise and adult male - someone he trusted - and that trust was violated because Ames Mayfield has the misfortune of being a socially aware and intelligent boy who cares about his country. That's what being a Scout is about. I was one. I'm getting pretty sick of the quick backlash from the usual crowd of apologists who pounce on anything that doesn't fit the party line. How about the questions he was asking? It seems to me you have a lot to learn from this boy.
17
Sorry JSD--the terms are appropriate for the actions that were used against a young man. Any way you want to say it or if you want to make it about semantics, he was no longer welcomed in his current troop based on his actions. You seem to place a twist on it as if it were about space or scheduling or as you say any number of reasons. Why this is so controversial when the reason was given and whitewashed with the old "Glad you're gone from here, but you are still a scout (find a fit)." Appears to be an opportune time to "transfer" him after communicating her son was no longer welcome.
Remember our country believes "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to death, your right to say it." Too much of if I don't like what you say, I will dispel your character or expel you. This madness must stop, as well as, the excuses for accepting this type of behavior.
12
You missed the part that said he was 'heartbroken.' Sounds like punishment to me.
6
1. The Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts have become political.
2. It shows poor mentorship on both the Den Leader and mother's part to not have walked Ames through a more productive way to state the questions.
3. There is absolutely no evidence that increased gun ownership increases public safety. In fact, all evidence points to the contrary. When is the media going to start addressing these false assertions?
4. Holy wicked cow, Ms. Marble has completely lost her marbles! There are so many things wrong with her comments, such as black people are of a different race. The Cub Scouts couldn't find somebody competent and educated to meet with?
9
That kid just learned a life lesson, people care more about the 2nd Amendment way more than the 1st. Good for him for wanting to be involved, we need more kids like that!
32
Aquestion too poltically charged? what on earth should one talk with politicians? The ending of games of thrones?
22
Of course the Boy Scouts would stifle critical thinking and particularly progressive thinking. What else would you expect from an organization that requires belief in god of its members?
12
And why would you expel a cub scout from his den. Really, for close questioning of an adult. Utter nonsense.
11
If you believe the scout came up with those questions on his own then I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Way to go Mom, you’re in the NYT!
9
And what's wrong with Mom helping her son form a question? Are you suggesting that the boy has no thoughts of his own on the matter?
Kudos to Mom and Dad for encouraging their son to think about and ask about issues that befuddle our political leaders, and shame on the den leader for expelling the boy.
5
I guess they grow 11 year olds differently where you live.
Although there are plenty of pro-gun folks saying things like "My 11 year old can tell you that restrictive gun laws do not reduce homicide!"
3
Eleven year olds can think, you know. I reference Gabr Fleischer, who has been writing a political newsletter since he was ten, featured in this publication.
My daughter and her peers have had thoughtful discussions about current affairs since that age also.
Let’s give children the credit they deserve.
It’s not the fifties anymore, when American kids were routinely fed pablum instead of ideas.
6
State Senator Vickie Marble is what conservatives call a 'Snowflake.'
12
The age of 11 is the exact age I stopped saying the pledge of allegiance and standing for the Star Spangled Banner drinking song. I was unable to reconcile in my 11 year old mind why black people should be treated so unfairly in this society. King and Malcolm hadn't been long assassinated. Vietnam was still raging. There was a raging heroin epidemic in my community that no one was addressing. Even at 11, I knew that the constitution did not represent me or any of my family members. My parents did not have to tell me this. It was in every newspaper on a daily basis.
34
Let this sink in:
The local parent community feels so threatened by the thoughts and questions of an eleven year-old Cub Scout that they are compelled to banish him?
If Ames' previous pack's Cubmaster is not removed immediately by the pack parent committee, they are complicit in the blatant censorship of this Cub Scout. What message are they sending to Ames and the rest of the boys?
That their political belief system is so fragile and unsupportable that the mere questions of an eleven year-old is dangerous for the stability of their house of cards?
19
It 's obvious that along with far too many of her GOP peers, Ms. Marble has clearly lost her marbles if she ever had more than a few, that is.
Shame on her and on the Boy /Cub Scouts who, even they don't agree with Ames Mayfield, should have praised him for his intelligent well thought out questions which he asked in a polite and civil manner. Unlike most of the rightwing, gun toting 2nd amendment fanatics, this young man should be an example to all Americans as to how one should behave in a public forum.
17
"I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country"...
"...A duty is something you are expected to do. At home, you might be expected to make up your bed or take out the trash. You also have duties to God and to your country. You do your duty to God by following the teachings of your family and religious leaders. You do your duty to your country by being a good citizen and obeying the law."
If the Boy Scouts of America adhere to their own oaths and interpretations, and following their own guidelines for scouts, they must conclude that Ames Mayfield is exercising his citizenship duties in the very finest tradition of participation in 'representative democracy'.
Now compare his excellent performance with Congressional leaders who work for their wealthy sponsors. These local scout leaders have failed to uphold the finest tradition of the Scouts of America; and provided a shameful example to young citizens.
13
I think, perhaps, one young man learned a very valuable life lesson in this - even if the "adults" in the room, apparently, did not.
7
if one watches the U-tube video, It is clear that the boy is reading -- rather awkwardly -- a lengthy statement prepared by his mother who is videotaping the entire thing.
I don't condone the actions of the boy scouts or agree with response of the Congresswoman.
BUT the mother was way out of line using an event for children for political purposes. She exploited her own son, as well as the boy scouts. This was reprehensible.
They are other better ways to deal with gun control.
5
Maybe he was reading it, but how do you know his mother wrote it? Maybe it was the product of a discussion between the 2 of them. And maybe his dad was involved, too.
And Ms. Marble is not a Congresswoman, but rather a state senator.
6
Like how? Laws are made by the politicians and the lobbyists and Koch brothers. Just how are we supposed to make them accountable for their action by not confronting them on their votes?
What is wrong with him writting down his question and reading it? It shows that he is prepared and cares deeply about the subject
Shame on you for trying to silence his voice.
1
This is unbelievable. The original del leader should have been removed and the BSA should have taken stronger support in favor of young Mr. Mayfield!
8
It would be wonderful if Scouting could help us transcend the polarization we are experiencing in society but that is probably too much to ask for from this organization. This kid was asked to leave his "den" which, when I was a kid in Cub Scouts, was a small group typically organized by neighborhood. Neighborhoods are largely self-selected these days -- we choose to live among people who share our values and our politics. It should not come as a surprise that people don't want their kids interacting with kids whose parents have political values they don't share. That's the world we live in.
4
Questioning equals learning. Congratulations to the eleven year old. When Mr. Frauenglass learns how to construct a sentence, maybe he can also ask a question that can be answered. Not all eleven year olds are the same. I grew up with those that could think and those that had trouble articulating their thoughts. Ms. Marble seems to have trouble thinking clearly. The NRA`s argument is statistically proven false. Ask more, question more, " Never stop learning ".
4
Perhaps its time to disband the Cub Scouts, an anachronistic organization that has clearly lost the plot.
4
Has anyone considered that maybe Ms. Marble was auditioning for a cabinet position in the Trump White House? She's got a shot. She certainly has the lying and dissembling thing going pretty well. I'm sure her flip-flopping and denial are right up there too. More guns out in the streets makes us safer and reduces crime? Please! Don't worry, she'll be telling us that's not what she said sometime in the next news cycle.
8
It seems like his mother used the meeting w/ the politician as a cheap opportunity to push her point of view. It's unfortunate that her son had to suffer being moving to a different troop, with different friends, but it could have been avoided if his mother let a child be a child instead of a puppet.
This type of attitude toward free speech is the result of the take over of the Boy Scouts by fundamentalist churches. It started in the Viet Nam era where businesses and community organizations stopped sponsoring the Boy Scouts. the void what filled my the Conservative "Christian" denominations and the LDS Church. I saw it because I was a Boy Scout during that period. Despite the Boy Scout's code and creed that honors really religions, the Pack and Troop leaders perverted it to honoring only conservative Christianity.
The solution is for civic organizations and business to sponsor more Boy Scout units.
4
If this were my kid, he wouldn't be going to another cub scout den. I'd be having him join the ACLU. I'd be taking him to political meetings and I'd be so proud that he was following current events in our country.
5
It may be possible for a kid to come up with such questions on his own, but to be capable of independent thought is another question, especially considering the milieu of his bedroom community. His political ideas at this stage of life are certainly inculcated by the adults that have authority over him. So, to consider his questions as a sole expression of an 11-year-old mind is a mistake. True political wisdom comes only when a young person comes into contact with a spectrum of views from a range of sources, and has to decide for themselves their political philosophy. Also, when they start to pay taxes, as the old joke goes!
1
Rubbish. Kids have access to the news on the internet. Buzzfeed is their popular source. Stop minimizing children.
1
So what he asks tough questions and has more courage than most adults. Kudos to him
1
By saying that what she said was "made up by the media", even though there are official transcripts of what she said, Ms. Marble violated the very first thing that Robert Baden-Powell wrote down as Scout Law:
"A Scout's honor is to be trusted. If a Scout says 'On my honor it is so', that means it is so, just as if he had taken a most solemn oath."
3
Part of the scout law is to be brave. This was really brave.
7
Is this the same Boy Scouts that has decided to allow females (under conditions, no den with 6 or less and den must approve) to join so they can learn leadership qualities? Do Boy Scout leadership qualities consist of not making waves, not using critical thinking and following the "pack"? Stick to the Girl Scouts. Even if your troop is doing crafts (and there is nothing wrong with that), it is the discussion that occurs while doing so that is important.
3
The den leader's actions were wrong, but the Mayfields' conduct is not blameless. It appears that Ames' questions were a deliberate set-up to create a controversy -- and the Mayfields' moment on the stage in our increasingly divided country -- particularly when you factor in the video posting. Nobody likes to be deliberately ambushed, particularly when it is done in such a crass way with manipulated children. Vicki Marble may be a buffoon, but embarrassing her and your child's scout leader to get your 15 minutes is cynical and wrong.
2
In practice, it was the mother who was kicked out of the pack, not the son. That was an overreaction by the scout leader, who should have acted in the child's best interest, despite his mother.
Sad to see the mother and the scout leader each using the child as a punching bag in their airing of their political views. Neither seems to be interested in raising a well-adjusted child.
1
T
Any parent would be extremely proud if this kid and he obviously has great parents.
1
'“He communicated that my son was no longer welcome back to the den,” she said.'
This statement does not reveal what the speaker actually said, or how he said it. This story is the perfect segue to Trump's allegedly objectionable remarks to a grieving widow.
What either of them are doing in the NY Times is the real story in both cases.
While the Republican Abraham Lincoln tries to heal the country after a divisive civil war, Trump is trying his best to divide the country to pre-civil war mentality and is doing a good job at it. I guess this is what he meant when he said America is a mess and only he can make it great again. This little boy was put down for doing the right thing.
2
Mothers and Fathers, is this the type of organization you could trust to develop your daughters’ leadership skills? I think this example of stifling leadership proves the Boy Scouts of America is building conformists rather than leaders with courage, discernment and solutions. The idea that in the wake of their decline, the BSA claims to welcome girls in a “staged and via a separate curriculum,” begs a deeper question about their intentions for American girls.
3
Wow, within the top 10 comments, 2 of them assume Mr. Ames's mom must have written his question! And this from folks who support him--I can imagine what regular Fox viewers say about it.
Any 6th-grade teacher will tell you there are many 11-year-olds fully able and more than willing to figure this stuff out and articulate it at length. And meanwhile plenty of elected officials who think they're clever with their dog-whistles, blithely unaware that a child can see the ugly truth.
11
Looks like mom wants some air time to make her own political and anti-gun views known, and that she used her son as the vehicle to make it happen. No 11 year old kid talks like this kid is quoted as having spoken.
2
Considering the words he used, I do not think he worked on the question alone. It is a good question at its core and this boys mother obviously manipulated him in to a political statement.
Shame on her. Parents should not USE THEIR CHILDREN this way.
1
In USA, today more than any time since the end of the Vietnam War, we see persons punished for questioning 'servants of the people'. . .you know our elected officials, elected to serve us.
A wretched lesson about America's democratic republic to inflict upon a youngster.
1
Sounds like his mother primed him for the engagement and probably even made up the questions for him. She sounds like a loyal liberal democrat!
1
this kid has more intelligence and courage than almost all republicans as he is speaking truth to power.
Now if we can get a republican beside john McCain to have some backbone against the psychopath in the WH
1
The DEN leader was upset at some bright kid's perfectly-civil question to some local pol who appears to have the brains of a rabbit, so the bright kid gets in trouble?
Leader, my foot.
4
“We are committed to working with families to find local units that best fit their needs,” it said."
Scout's honor.
Seems like it's in short supply when it comes to socially conscious ideas. Boys and Girls Clubs, which are INCLUSIVE, seem like a much better choice these days.
12
Fast food restaurants are ubiquitous throughout the entire country and they are equal-opportunity disease-enablers.
2
There is no way an 11 year old would have asked such an articulate question, let alone speak as indicated for two minutes if he had not been coached, excuse me "trained", to do so. These events are for the kids, an opportunity for them to learn, ask their own questions in their own way. They not, and should not be, a sounding board for their overzealous parents and their agendas. This parental involvement negates the entire purpose of the experience. Regarding how the leadership of the Den viewed events, perhaps the leader was making the point, and I am admittedly unclear as to who did exactly what to whom, that his scouts should not be the voice of their parents but their own.
PS I have been thru the "slot car" races of the Boy Scouts, for those who might question.
22
Do you have kids because my 9 year old ask questions like these all the time. Don't project your shortcoming on to others.
4
You don't know that. Ever read Gabe Fleisher's Wake Up To Politics newsletter, started when he was 13? Read the comments that Matt Grossman made in LA regarding the Rowena Road Diet? Some children are driven by a passion for social justice, just as some adults are. Unfortunately, in this case, it does not seem that Ms. Marble is driven by that same passion.
2
Ames Mayfield is a remarkable boy who deserves respect and admiration, not accusations of being a puppet trained by adults.
1
Kid punished for displaying critical thinking, by defensive pack leader who evidently finds it more important to defend a grown-up, marble-headed politician than to support and defend a child's right to question and learn.
38
Sen. Marble was obviously frazzled that an 11 year old could tongue-tie her lame defences of these reactionary policies. Hats off to this young boy.
40
You don't like tough questions from an 11-year-old? Just remove him! How utterly 2017.
Such a weak, lame response to a young American doing his civic duty. Sounds like good things are in store for this kid, hopefully starting with a new troop that shows him the proper respect.
Young man: 1. Senator Marble: 0.
45
The leader should be kicked out of the scouts. We need a lot of adults as smart as this kid.
29
Soooo, the Boy Scouts find trump to be an acceptable speaker for their national event, but then declare they are a "non-political" organization and belatedly censor an 11-year-old for asking politically uncomfortable questions. And I thought the Boy Scouts were a 50s throwback organization...
41
A throw-back to the Joe McCarthy days, evidently.
3
The Boy Scouts of America have invited every President or the United States to their National Jamboree for almost 100 years. To not invite Trump would have been a political act. It is not about politics but about having the President of the United States say good things about Scouting, citizenship and out duty to help others. Every President except Trump has given an uplifting, non-political speech. No other President has done what Trump did. The shame rest solely on Trump's shoulders.
1
Old motto: "Be Prepared" New motto: "Be Careful"
14
New motto: "shut up and stick to tying knots" (preferably not late at night in the den master's pup tent).
I'd like to know what the Scouting rules/guidelines say about a Den leader kicking out a kid! Does the Den leader have the authority to eject a child whose ideas he doesn't like? And wouldn't a leader consult with parents if a child had behavior problems before throwing him out?
The scouting organization owes an answer to this question, regardless of the facts of the matter at hand.
15
“He let me know in so many words that the den leader was upset about the topic of gun control,” Ms. Mayfield said in an interview on Saturday. “It was too politically charged.”
Too politically charged? Invite a clown to make balloon animals then. My apologies to the "Senator" who couldn't handle an inquiry from an 11 year old constituent.
Hopefully the food at the cub scouts' craft services table met her approval.
15
A disgrace that a child can't ask questions without an elected representative taking such umbrage that the child is removed from his troop. Are we living in a fascist state? If Marble can't simply answer the questions - any questions - from constituents then she should be removed from office.
I believe it's still a democracy in Colorado. Perhaps someone needs to inform Marble.
26
We have never been a true democracy. Read the original Constitution impartially and you will see how many hedges against a democracy were written in by our elite class Founding Fathers. The only federal office actually elected by the people according to the original Constitution was the lower House of Representatives. All other federal offices were put behind safety barriers to protect the debt-free wealthy white male landowners from what Madison warned would be the "leveling influence of the masses." [Federalist 10, IIRC] in a true democracy.
We have devolved now into a fascist corporatist state, where Il Donald and his blackshirt GOP are now closing off every single avenue of citizen opposition short of armed revolution. We should remember the old dictum, "When all moderate opposition is cut down, only revolution remains."
1
Poor kid. He asked thoughtful, intelligent questions, and it is astounding that an adult leader would punish him for that and retain his position.
14
The simplest solution I see is for the politician to have said "I will be happy to answer an extemporaneous question from each Cub Scout, but I am not going to address a two minute long question written by a trouble-making adult looking to create controversy for media attack pieces." Problem solved.
7
Sure, how terrible that an elected official be asked to answer questions about their agenda. If you've got nothing to hide...
Sure, attack the mother- SHE's the problem. (The nerve of her, raising an obviously articulate child and instilling decent values in him.) Your response is worthy of Kelly Anne Conway- divert attention from the question at hand- establishing reasonable gun control in this country. What a bald-faced lie of a response that we're "safer" with more guns!! BTW, my daughter at 11 could have easily framed a similar question on her own. The real issue, the problem of guns in this country is NOT solved.
1
It is sad that you beleive that modern 11 year olds could formulate that question. When I was 11 (57 years ago) I could have asked that question but didn't have the guts to do it. It is even sadder that you feel that any questions that you don't agree with are by trouble makers. This American Nation and Democracy was started by trouble-making adults. Thomas Jefferson comes to mind. So do those others who signed the Declaration of Independence. It is American to be a trouble maker who questions our government's actions.
1
I'm not sure why the Cub Scouts were meeting with the politician, if a political question from an 11 yr old would be deemed inappropriate. Was it politically incorrect (i.e., bad manners) to bring up gun control and health care?
Considering the bad example of our President, in his completely inappropriate speech to the Boy Scouts, the 11 yr old is articulate and measured.
Politics can be messy, so maybe the den should just stick to camping and boating.
13
Cub Scout Code: You stay morally straight when you do the right thing and live your life with honesty. A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. The Scout Law has 12 points.
I think this young Cub was a lot more honest & mature than the Den Leader who exiled him for use of Free Speech. Shame on the Cub Scouts for this ignorant judgement.
14
If you listen to the tape you'll hear Rep. Marble and another adult say to Ames, "that was a really great question."
I wonder what changed Ms. Marble mind? The fact the people of northern Colorado know she lies to children? That she has no excuse for wanting to allow wife beaters to get guns. That every so-called fact she spewed has been de-bunked over and over again?
What's even more disgusting is the piling on by the lunatic 2nd Amendment people who throw baseless accusations against the young Cub Scout and his family. They're using the Trump formula. When you're caught in a lie or you're known to be wrong, attack even harder.
20
Scouting is as good or as bad as the parents that are participating in the programs. Boy Scouts work to have a "Scout-led" troop to allow leadership qualities to have an opportunity to develop in their participants while maintaining a safe environment to do so. This family simply allowed their child to take on that responsibility at an early age. Cudos to them and shame on the den leader for failing to recognize this.
9
So once again, it seems only "liberal" universities are required to assure the free speech rights of right wing agit-prop agents. A politician, a state legislator, no less, needs to be shielded from hard questions, however, and can get away with spewing junk like
“the more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed.”
This is straight-up propaganda right out of Pravda, because it is a lie. Here are the data on gun death rates by state:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_b...
The correlation with low education levels, with redness, is clear. And before you right-wingers start objecting that Berzerkistan or another Republican state has lower rates than this or that blue state, learn some statistics, and what a statistical correlation means.
12
So a kid can't have an opinion.? Was he disrespectful? It didn't seem like his question was other than reasonable. Who knew politics prevails from birth, sort of like a birthmark?
2
Ames Mayfield for President! (in 2040) Just kidding, there won't be elections in 2040.
6
Good for Ames Mayfield - a better MAN than that old guy in the Den of Thieves in the white mansion in D.C.. His family den should have been disbanded after his lyin' speech at the last national jamboree to real men.
4
Ames Mayfield sounds like an amazing, brave little boy. His mother should be proud of him and proud of the way she's raising him to be an informed citizen who cares about what's going on around him.
I was raised in a family that was politically aware and I have no problems believing that Ames came up with those questions on his own. We had similar discussions around the dinner table all the time.
As for Senator Marble: if she can't handle questions from an 11 year-old child, she has no business representing the people of her state. 'Pathetic' is the kind way of describing Marble.
15
As I recall from my involvement as an adult Scout leader, Scouts are not permitted to represent political sides ( "common sense" or not ) while in uniform and it's unfortunate the Scout's parent obliviously put her son in this position.
4
then why do something political like visit a Senator? What were they supposed to when visiting someone who's job is "politics", sit there and smile? It is not the parent's fault, it is the troop.
1
Was this the only time the child spoke about this? It seems there's no history of this child ever discussing this with his troop leaders or fellow cub scouts. If he had, a red flag would have been raised even on the possibility of a question of that sort beforehand and probably would have been squashed. Therefore, it appears his parents used him, and that's a shame.
1
Or he worked with his parents to craft an intelligent, highly necessary question to one of our elected leaders.
The problem is not the boy; the problem is not the question; the problem is that we have duplicitous leaders feeding us lies like "more guns make us safer," and their position is so bogus that it can't withstand interrogation from a child.
Ames is exactly the kind of person I would want if I had a child. He spoke truth to power and he sees that the emperor (or the emperor's minions) has no clothes. The den leader who expelled him should himself be expelled.
14
This is bad planning on the part of the pack, followed by reprehensible behavior on the part of every party involved, except the child. Questions could have been limited to 20 seconds, with a second round if time allowed. No viral video, no vengeful politician, no mortified den leader, no expelled child as a result.
1
Or the congresswoman could adopt a defensible position on guns that can't be instantly eviscerated by an articulate child. If the kid had posed this question to Obama, Obama would have thanked him, praised his intelligence and speaking ability, and then delivered an equally articulate response.
It's not the kid's fault that this woman holds an untenable opinion, and it's not his fault that she lacks the mental acuity to defend her beliefs.
This young man got more than he bargained for when joining that cub scout den. What an incredible and painful lessen for him learn - that adults, such as his den leader who "he thought shared a close relationship" caved in to political pressure and kicked the lad out of the den. So much for trusting adults who he respected and for having an opinion.
All I can say to this young man is hang tough. This kind of lesson will be valuable in more ways imaginable down the road.
11
Honestly, the response of Congresswoman Marble bothered me far more than what BSA did.
“What we are trying to do is come up with meaningful solutions. This is not about eating chicken.”
It certainly isn't. And this is clearly yet another example of what can happen when you have gerrymandered districts in a state where one party carves up districts to choose voters for its representatives rather than the other way around: in this case a tone deaf Republican Congresswomen who clearly has fringe beliefs that prevent her ability to properly serve constituents who don't share hers.
Embarrassing.
7
A boy was punished for asking a question to a local government official. His question was reasonable, not offensive. The Boy Scouts of America allowed this punishment to occur. What does this say about that organizations commitment to US Values and their members? Have the leaders of the Boy Scouts forgotten the oath?
"To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight." This boy lived up to that oath, the organization did not.
22
Sounds like Marble is the one who should be exiled. The national Scouts organization had better come up with a better response. It should be intolerable for a Cub den to exclude a kid for supporting gun control and asking a legislator about it. At the least, if the pack leader did what the mother claims, he/she should be banned from a leadership position and Ames should be invited to remain in his den. What on earth is the Boy Scouts teaching these days?!
5
My god! “[T]he more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed.” It is one thing to simply believe blindly and uncompromisingly in one's right to bear arms. It's quite another to be so ignorant of reality that it makes one's head spin. Could Senator Marble truly believe that more guns make us all safer when all of the stats tell us precisely the opposite and virtually all of the chiefs of police of every major US city endorses tighter gun control. She is Vice-chair of the state's Education Committee. Irony? And she has two ongoing businesses while she maintains her job as a state senator: bail bonds and a liquor store. More irony. Why do I suspect one can purchase a gun at either?
14
Wait. Cub scout meetings are safe spaces for politicians? That's what we're saying? Sheesh.
7
A child asks some difficult questions so he must have been “scripted”? From this response it would seem that Ms. Marble has not been exposed to many gifted children, or even average children, from outside of her own social circle. Children can ask very intelligent and incisive questions and they can do it all by themselves. I speak from 31 years of teaching experience.
13
That is the GOP way.
If it's difficult, requires thought or detailed analysis, get rid of the troublemaker who's trying to make us actually work.
6
It reminds me of Hitlerjungen where authorities were controling the ideological purity of the youth. Among two possibilities of extreme populism, America sliding into Communism or Fascism, only Fascism has a reasonable chance in this country. Many aspects of Fascism, race supremacy, militarism, hostile opposition to MSM, suppression of voting rights, Police brutality, are already firmly in place.
3
What the heck country are we in?
This incident sounds like something that might have occurred in the 1950s Soviet Union.
So it is a crime worthy of banishment if a child in 2017 America asks a question of a tone-deaf politician that the politician and her party doesn't want asked? And the Boy Scouts need to think about getting itself community leaders with much better judgment and knowledge of child development.
Let's hope this "heartbreaking" incident for Ames doesn't dampen his spirits but motivates him to work for a much better America--maybe he will go into politics some day and work to drain the polluted swamp.
2
This is gonna' be tricky, i'll have to use my best diplomatic wording, code for politically correct in order to not be demonized by my..how to say..(ahem) further left politically minded brethren. Here goes, let me know how i'm doin'...please.
Ames I know i'm not alone when i say, "a very good (really) question" and I personally salute you. In all likelihood you will have a future in perhaps the diplomatic corps or victim advocacy journalism comes to mind while certainly politics is..well shall we say indicated?
At 11 however it crosses my mind that perhaps you may have had..shall we say a little help with not only the formatting of your very carefully crafted quasi question and certainly the research portion would have taken some..once again "guidance".
Now a broader "thought" perhaps, two views really 1) The Scouting organization needs to be politically correct here and not honor the request by the offended Den leader, basically something along the lines of, "No, absolutely not and additionally we will offer no explanation to you for our stance".
Now secondly and just as important. Studies and those pesky polls offer the view that, in the largest percentages Americans overall (with a large number of NRA members in agreement) call for stricter regulation of firearms.
Quickly I will say this, we live in an ever expanding diverse and multicultural nation, to that end it behooves us to be that..that worst of all social behaviors the dreaded political correctness.
Between the Cub Scouts and Teen Vogue, we might actually get some responsible political journalism happening in this country.
This is horrible, and seems perfectly contrary to the entire purpose of the Boy Scouts, which is to turn boys and girls into leaders. Another troop should offer to adopt him--they will be almost universally praised. Even for those who don't agree with the boy's ideas about guns, he should be praised for his critical thinking
123
I doubt if these were the boys ideas. I believe he was a pawn for the parent. That said he I think it was wrong to make him leave the pack. I am sure the Pack Leader was embarrassed and blindsided by the the parent of the Cub Scout and the question.
I think gun control is important. I also think kids should be allowed to enjoy their childhood vice becoming a political activist (without having a choice in the matter) at a young age.
1
I'm not this boy's parent, obviously, but if I were, I would be beaming with pride. I think the Den Parent should be relieved of their duty.
This is most despicable! The scouts are supposed to help children to use their brain for something other than a hat rack yet when they do they are removed because someone did not like his questions. Shame on you! This is what Trump has always done to anyone who questioned his actions, hence, Ms. Marble has the same way of thinking. It really disturbs me that the so called scout leader let this happen.
This child and all involved will always remember this and think they have to be careful of what they say or they may be removed from their pack, team, job and/or etc.
9
Ames Mayfield for POTUS 2024 !
5
We are better as a nation when all generations are in a position to share their thoughts and perspectives, regardless of differences. Too bad for this troop that this little boy will no longer be in their social group. Segregation of thought does not move us forward.
7
I just read several negative comments here about whether the mom “coached “ her son. While I don’t know, I would not be surprised if this young scouts mom helped him frame his questions.
If she did, kudo’s to her!
I’m imagining a parent sitting down with their 11 year old son discussing issues as important and relevant as race and gun control. Kudo’s to that parent.
More important than the particular questions asked by this boy is the lesson being taught. That it’s good to question authority, it’s good to voice a well considered opinion.
Ultimately to be true to the scout motto “be prepared”. This young man, and hopefully lots of other scouts (maybe some adults) learned to be prepared to take the heat for standing on one’s principles. That’s the mark of a great citizen. A lesson the scouts purport to teach, even if this particular scout leader taught it unintentionally.
16
Excellent comment. OF COURSE the parent contributed. In the world I inhabit, guiding children's intellectual development is a -- if not THE -- primary parenting function. Apparently Ames did a stunning job of presenting complex issues in a short time.
Kudos to Ms. Mayfield as well, for the fruits of her parenting labors.
Well done Ames.
2
"be prepared"
That's the girl scouts.
Interesting how many people who disapprove of the 11 year old have the same rationalization - "I didn't care about politics at that age." Well, I got news for all of you - some kids really do care about issues at a remarkably early age (and frankly 11 years old isn't all that young!). Your experience isn't necessarily everyone else's....
10
My mom died when I was 9 1/2 by her husband with a gun that was in the house. This kid is a hero in my eyes. Everyone knows kids are smart.
When I was 11 (and many other NYT readers were), I (we) had plenty of sophisticated views on society. That was the age when I decided against my family's wishes not to be confirmed at out church.
I had my son in the BSA for many years. Although Packs and Troops vary greatly, I do not recommend these groups. They are behind the times.
9
Buried in this story is Marbles' statement that more guns = less crime, a statement which is patently false and has been disproved countless times. The statistics from every country in the world have shows that a reduction in the prevalence of guns leads to lower incidence of gun deaths and gun violence. It is beyond any dispute. What is lost, and what perhaps makes it irrelevant to the U.S. is that there is a threshold ownership issue - once the prevalence of guns exceeds a tipping point (around 0.5 guns per capita) more guns above that don;t change the numbers very much and lower gun ownership makes little difference if the prevalence stays above that ratio. Of course, that ratio only applies in the U.S. as no other country is anywhere close to the U.S. in gun ownership. When you examine the data for U.S. communities, it clearly shows that above a tipping point gun rates don;t incrementally affect the issue, but below the tipping point there are huge correlations.
10
Sir, not all Americans share the lady's opinion, nor are we ignorant of the impact of saturation of guns into our neighborhoods, towns and cities. It is despite the vehement and fairly obvious objections we have made that the all mighty National "Rifle" Association has convinced gun owners that it "protects" them. Gun owners clutch their semi-automatics and vote for the NRA! The NRA, which long ago saturated the market in rifles, belongs to the gun manufacturers and they need to move product. So, they fire up this cultural and safety war to sell more guns.
We are past the tipping point here. Hopefully, Europe can stem the tide into their countries. At least, I pray that to be true.
This former scout and, later, junior assistant scout master, in the 1950s, feels - strongly - it's the leader who should have been exiled. And not to another Cub Pack.
10
Cheers to young Ames! I would be proud if either of my kiddos asked the kind of hard hitting questions that their elders are hesitant to ask.
4
I live in Denver, saw this on the local news along with the interview of him and his mom. The young man is extremely well spoken and intelligent. He did all this research on his own without his mother's prodding (for those who seem to think he is a pawn). He used transcripts from the state legislature that directly quoted her comments.
May this is not considered national news to some, but it shows how we are trying to shut down discussion at a young age, even when they have researched the issue and have direct quotes.
Furthermore, this legislator is known for saying questionable things. From the Denver Post: 'When a scout asked last week in Broomfield about those comments, Marble told the den she did not say those things, adding: “That was made up by the media.”' In fact, they were **transcripts** from the legislative sessions.
17
Maybe the Den Leader, given her sensitivity to serious questions, should have given each Scout a softball question for the politician. "Can you tell us how you have worked to reduce wasteful government assistance to the poor?" or "Can you tell us how you are working to reduce taxes on the 'makers' in our country ?"
2
Heil !!
1
This cub scout is learning an important lesson about participatory democracy and on the importance of voting. I doubt he will for get this encounter when he is of voting age. My hope is that younger people question their representatives more and that they decided to run for office too when it is clear that the congressional reps are not willing to listen to constituents. Besides this it was a good question. In California if someone is convicted of battery charges they lose their guns and you must have a valid handgun safety certificate to purchase one. These are common sense laws that are lacking in Colorado.
10
Interesting that nobody thinks an 11-year old might ask that question on their own. If you raise smart kids in a home with exposure to lots of intellectual discussion and a knowledge of social paradigms, it’s absolutely possible for them to be informed and insightful.
103
Questions about fracking are OK, but not gun control. Freedom of speech is ALWAYS conditional no matter your age.
Rep.Marble is also lying about the facts. The more guns a society has the MORE crime and murders, and suicides, are committed. Thousands of people a killed by gun violence in the US every year, the most in any country other than those in actual wars. Easy access to and possession of guns is the issue. And the iron-fisted control the NRA has over our legislators. Good for this boy putting the questions to her. He has the right to ask these questions. And for the answers to be reported. Nothing a Congresswoman says in an open meeting is secret. I hope he grows up and runs for office. We need more people like him.
36
After viewing the entire video of the 11 year old boy rote reading these questions, I have to think that he was fed the text by his parents, in their obvious attempt to use him for their own purposes.
This is not to say that expelling him from the pack was correct. However,
there is more going on here than a smart kid challenging a politican.
8
Why not give the boy some credit? My ten-year-old listens to and reads the news, and has her own opinions. She could easily have asked these same questions in that forum, and has asked similar questions of teachers and counselors on her own. Given that her parents model routine phone calls to our U.S. senators and congresswoman, I expect that she has learned to think for herself.
Same with this boy - clearly he is an independent thinker and it is shameful that many posters can't see that.
9
Do parents ever help their children prepare for school? One would hope so. Do teachers ever correct homework/projects done by the parents but submitted by their child as their own work? More often than it should happen. In this case, the experience Ames had questioning and talking with a state senator is priceless and I give his parents a lot of credit to help him develop the confidence to talk in what could be/was an intimidating situation. Senator Marble did not play her role as senator/educator at all well!
4
Suppose the this was a family that actually watched accurate news together, and discussed politics together? Suppose the children were not allowed to jump up from dinner and return to their video games? A Cub Scout or Boy Scout can earn a badge for work on the environment. Kudos to this family! This boy will grow up to be someone who is concerned for our planet, and for the welfare of all of us!
5
Stop blaming the mom. It is pathetic that people don't think an 11-year old -- or a 6th grader -- can ask smart questions about the state of our country. There are many smart and articulate kids out there that care, do community service and take the time to learn. Give kids credit. We need more independent thinkers in this country.
42
It would be hard to find someone more eager to enact sensible gun controll legislation than me, that said I cannot condone using an 11 yr old to ambush a politician.
It is fair to disagree with an elected official but equally unfair to stage a moment meant to ridicule their position for cheap theatrical value especially using your child.
If we are to make ANY progress on substantive issues we MUST engage with respect and through civil discourse not ridicule and grandstanding.
Shame on these parents.
9
So it is unfair to bluntly remind everyone that what politicians do today will affect (perhaps mostly) those that are now 11 yo? Or 12? or 14, 8, etc etc??
The Cub Scout den leader should be arrested and put on trial for treason. Something to do with violating a child's constitutional rights. Or does the constitution only matter in regards to killing others?
12
Ok, so I am a Den Leader of kids this age and have two views on this.
First is the easy one. Of course, Cub Scouts is about learning to be young leaders and young citizens and the absolutely first prerequisite for both is standing up for what you believe in and speaking hard truths to power. I would have applauded what this kid said and have used it as the basis for a discussion for the other boys of how to articulate concerns to your representatives and to effectively challenge something you don't think is right.
On the other hand, I also have sympathy for that Den Leader that is taking time out of his/her day to call in a favor to have the kids meet with some representative, hauling the kids down to wherever to give them an experience with an official and then having one of them embarrass you. Kicking the kid out was definitely an overreaction, but on some level, I understand the frustration of planning a nice event to have one of the kids (and obviously their parents) throw sand in the gears.
On balance, the best thing to have done was for the Den Leader to set expectations beforehand, to understand what the kids were planning to ask, to help them articulate it in a way that would be productive, and then to let the representative know that the kids were planning to practice exercising their citizenship by challenging them.
12
Kids were, apparently, invited to ask questions. The article says "they asked her about some of the most controversial topics in the nation." Is it ever appropriate to raise controversial topics and only permit one side of the controversy to be represented?
It seems to me that if it was embarrassing for the den leader to have a challenging view of a "controversial issue" presented, he should have arranged for a presentation or tour by the senator, not a question-and-answer session.
4
Quite a few commentators here are complaining that Ames was "primed" or coached in asking his questions, to which I say "so what". Eleven-year olds are not stupid and can see what's going around them so it would seem perfectly reasonable for this young man to ask his parents about the best way to maturely frame his questions for the state senator. And a fine job he did in asking them.
Actually, it sounds like the state senator could have used some coaching so as to provide a mature response.
262
Her response was fine. The problem is not "priming". The problem was that he read from a script that his mom wrote to get hits on YouTube. He didn't learn any new civics lesson from this.
After Trumps obscene speech at the Boy Scouts of America and watching the "zeig heil" moment with the scouts, and then this travesty ,maybe it's time to start questioning the integrity of an organization that wants to be as wholesome as apple pie. They aren't.
48
Republican State Senator Vicki Marble: "the more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed." Do Republicans actually believe this?
Any state senator who cannot handle questions like this should find a new line of work.
313
Just look at the gun death and crime stats for the U.S. vs. most other developed nations. Marble's comment was either totally ignorant or a deliberate misstatement. Both of which would be understandable given her political party.
1
Serves him right.
He must not have listened to nor understood what Donald Trump, Rick Perry and Rex Tillerson were preaching and practicing about the nature of scouting at their Jamboree. All under the primary direction and control of Vladimir Putin and Benjamin Netanyahu. Plus King Salman, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi and Recip Erdogan.
Who did this kid think he was? Barron Trump?
12
Don't forget, Trump gave a political speech to the BSA Jamboree this past summer.
17
I'm proud that an 11 year-old engages in civics and current events, and understands some of the issues. It bodes well for our society's future, that the next generation asks tough questions. Ms. Marble, a legislator from my town, needs her marbles checked when speaking with educated and inquisitive children. Another violent, racist Republican. That's what's mortifying, not a boy asking intelligent questions.
103
This 1 1year old has more common sense than the entire senate chamber and then some.
1
I hope that this young man has an opportunity to hone his obvious skill & potential as a junior journalist. Perhaps some local newspaper will create take him on.
“the more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed.”
That statement by Sen. Marble is dead wrong, and she has many reasons to know it is wrong, which implies she was lying. Lying to cub scouts is not a crime, but it is disgraceful.
Even Fox News knows the Senator is wrong:
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/09/20/more-guns-equal-more-deaths-stu...
Are we to worry about Russian trolls posting fake news but not worry when our legislators lie to our children (and to us)?
84
Amen. The shooter in Las Vegas had 40 of 'em. I say, right on Ames!
"I was shocked that you co-sponsored a bill to allow domestic violence offenders to continue to own a gun. Why on earth would you want somebody who beats their wife to have access to a gun?"
Yeah, that sounds like the un-coached question of an 11 year old. Sure. Maybe he was kicked out because he didn't come up with his own question.
5
Have to say, I could completely see my 11-year-old asking a question like that. He steals my news magazines. Some kids are in fact aware of current issues and paying attention.
36
My nine year old reads my news magazines and listens to the radio and is in scouting to enhance his abilities to be a productive citizen. He might not have been quite as articulate as a boy of 11, but I know he would have done something similar if given a chance.
3
Obviously you don't spend much time with eleven year olds. They listen to the news and many even have sophisticated, well articulated opinions.
3
If they seek to silence and control boys, imagine how they will treat girls!
36
So should we just go ahead and rebrand the BSA as the Trump Youth?
36
Almost 50 years ago, at 9 years old, I was tossed out of the Cub Scouts for laughing during "the Pledge of Allegiance." To this day, I can still feel the public shaming and ridicule. While I applaud the progress the Scouts are making recently, perhaps scout masters need more training--especially about how to deal with precocious children. After all, they are our future leaders!
18
Of course, the Senator provably lied when she responded that less shootings happen where there are more guns. A quick look at other first world nations makes this crystal clear. But the emptiest lies need the most stringent defense. Truth speaks for itself.
14
Great kid. Maybe we should reexamine laws that prohibit 11-year-olds from running for President. I'll take Ames Mayfield over Hillary and, of course, Donald Trump, any day. Mayfield in 2020!
8
Don't drag Hillary into this. Shame on you.
1
So now the Boy Scouts are being censored? If Senator Marble can't stand the heat she should get out of the kitchen.
27
Where is the ACLU in this? This seems like a clear violation of this young boy's civil rights.
12
So the gun supporting first amendment supporting Boy Scout representative chooses to utterly destroy this young child's right to free speech and discriminate against him by kicking him out of his "den" due to his political views. Im not sure if thats child abuse or a hate crime. However, it is clear that somebody does need to be kicked out.
16
How much money is the gun industry funneling to the BSA?
Kathryn Colucci (proud mother of an Eagle Scout)
Sandy Hook, CT
17
The BSA has a number of merit badges for shooting and hunting and teaches gun safety. Years ago, my son learned to shoot in BSA, became fascinated with guns, and now has a large collection and regularly shoots at a local range. The gun industry must see BSA as a great way to create future gun buyers. Seems to me from a gun marketing standpoint, the gun industry would be foolish not to support the BSA.
I am also a believer in all kids being taught basic gun safety; it really should be taught in the health curriculum in schools from early elementary school. I had at least one friend who's brother shot and killed his other brother when they were playing with guns as young children.
Disgusting & cowardly behavior from the adults who were responsible for trying to silence this young boy. I'm glad that he found a place in another cub scout group.
10
As a Scout parent, I am flabbergasted at the stupidity and audacity of the den leader. If anyone should have been forced out, it should have been him. Shame on the local organization for not handling this properly.
17
Maybe Bannon can persuade Sen. Marble to challenge Cory Gardner next year. She's just what he's looking for.
1
Where in the scouting oath does it state a scout gives up his Constitutional Rights?
Why isn't Sen Marble stepping in to protect this young man's right to ask his elected Senator a question; a Senator who took an oath stating..."I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;..."
How is this behavior by the Broomfield cub scout pack any different then a fascist regime?
13
Good point, but Ms. Marble is a state senator not a US senator so her oath is different.
1
This again tells us why we would be foolish to let our daughters join the BSA.
9
Ames Mayfield for President, 2035. Remember kids rule number one about life - QUESTION AUTHORITY.
10
The affairs of a den of Denver Cub Scouts, while troublesome, are not national news. The local decision to evict the kid, which is equally a decision to evict the parent, is best left to the people involved.
It sounds like this young boy had great questions. Even if his sources were incorrect, it was an opportunity for the adults in the room to teach all of the boys about checking sources and other issues pertaining to public speaking and debate.
This could have been a great learning experience. However, you have to have knowledgeable, secure adults to make that happen.
It sounds like Ms. Marble shouldn't be allowed to address children.
13
I was a Cub Scout, a Boy Scout, an Explorer Scout, and a Den Leader when my son was a Cub Scout. As a scout I was awarded the Order of the Arrow, a lifetime award. I've held the award with some misgivings because of repressive attitudes in the organization. However, this senseless action has pushed me over the edge. This young man has been treated in a repressive, censoring, and dismissive way for being an American and speaking his mind. The lack of a complete response by the state senator Marble, theBoy Scouts of America and the Denver Area Council is inadequate and shameful. It shows the Boy Scouts are no longer the group I believed them to be. What a terrible lesson for this young man and other young people. I will be returning my lifetime award.
136
And fewer than 20 people think you are brave and heroic. This is all the press you'll get for it. Everybody is a martyr.
Michael Kennedy,
Good for you.
Wait! Don't return it. Become a Den Leader again. The scouts need people like you now more than ever.
Based in the language of the questions posed by the cub scout it is obvious that his mother drafted the questions and put her son up to the asking the questions; I think this is very disingenuous on the part of the mother to use her son as mouthpiece to air her opinions in the form of these questions. I do not necessarily disagree with the content of the questions, I disagree using an 11-year old boy to delivery them. I don't believe these issues are on the mind of 11-year olds, unless they have been drilled into their minds by the parents. The mother should have presented these questions herself; however, she knew if they came out her mouth they would not be as notable. Thank you.
6
You don't know any precocious kids, do you? Signed, the mom of the kid who caused a ruckus at 5th grade graduation rehearsal by questioning the use of a
religious hymn in a public school ceremony. (And no, I didn't put him up to it.)
15
Perhaps not in Tennessee, but in general one would expect an 11-year old to have a good vocabulary and the ability to frame a question. The mother specifically mentioned that the boy spent a good deal of time researching these issues.
7
Maybe this 11 year old is smarter than the kids you know. Maybe he is smarter than you are.
1
I am just as saddened to see an 11 year-old get caught up in an anti-gun debate as an 11 year-old at an anti-abortion rally. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but when I was that age I wasn't politically charged. I left that to my parents. The fact is today you get a lot more likes and stories when you put your kids in front of the camera to do your bidding. I don't have an issue with this kids message, only that he was the messenger.
3
The guests speakers were politicians.The cubs were invited to prepare questions to ask their guests.Young Ames researched his questions, he didn’t ask her what she wears to work, what the name of her dog is,or is the President really a “moron”.He asked relevant topical questions that any politician worth their salt could’ve handled.Instead these cubs learnt that these politicians do not protect their constitutional rights .
5
You are saddened that some children actually have the guts to speak for themselves? Now THAT is sad!
2
Were children getting mowed down by AR-15s in elementary school when you were that age? Were citizens being regularly massacred by the dozens at concerts, movie theaters and night clubs by semi-automatic weapons when you were that age? Times have changed and the kids aren’t stupid.
4
All you people commenting how it's impossible for an 11-year-old to know about these issues and make statements like this need to realize that there are parents raising their children to be aware of what's going on in the world around them and not stick their head in the sand. My soon to be 11-year-old is a Cub Scout and I'm sure he would have asked similar questions.
29
We often wonder why our youth seem to be lacking in their critical thinking. This situation demonstrates one of the reasons for that lack. BSA just punished this young man and his mother for speaking up and making a politician uncomfortable by having to explain her point of view. If more of her voters did the very same thing, our democracy would be in better shape and would be enjoying far better leadership.
The BSA's conduct in this case was about as anti-American as you can get.
19
It amazes me that a state senator would be so petty to kick an 11 year old out of his Cub Scout den because he asked a question they were either unable to answer or too scared to answer. It's nice to know we have mature and well mannered adults leading this country.
3
If this Congresswoman had been able to answer the questions clearly, thoughtfully and cogently this would not have been an issue. Good thing the child wasn't a high school student. Those kids are even smarter than 11-year olds.
14
The Scout troop I used to lead faced a number of hard choices. Whether to abide by national policy that excluded gay scouts and leaders when that was still the rule (we ignored it). Whether to pay summer camp fees for kids whose parents didn't have the money to send them (we did). Whether and how to include kids with developmental and behavioral problems in outings and activities (we always found a way). It would never have occurred to me to regard pointed questions or opinionating about controversial political subjects by a scout or an adult as a problem, particularly if they were directed at a state legislator with a history of sticking her foot in her mouth. If she can't defend her positions to an 11 year-old, that probably says a lot about her positions.
23
My mother had a very simple view about questions from children. If they're old enough to ask the question, they're old enough to deal with the answer. The state senator simply knew that her answers would be embarrassing, so she apparently decided to take the low road. The den leader was even worse. His approach should have been to encourage penetrating queries, not discourage them. For those who lament how education in U.S. has been in decline, look no further than the behavior of the adults dressing down the child. If we spend significant time demonstrating to children that they will be punished for being curious, very soon they no longer wish to learn either. Once that state is achieved, there is nothing that will restart it.
1
Senator Ms. Marble's logic that "the more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed" is just as silly as the republican logic that the less income and estate taxes corporations and the wealthy pay the greater will be the wages of the poor and working classes. They hope that by just continuing to say it people will begin to believe it.
Guns in the hands of mentally ill people provides the opportunity for just more carnage.
Lower income and estate taxes for the rich just makes our tax system more regressive and will increase the concentration of wealth in the hands of the few in the USA. Just like in China and Russia.
7
I took my 7-year-old son to a Cub Scout meeting and was informed that we would have to sign pledges acknowledging our belief in god.
Regardless of one's position on religion, I'm not interested in having my son belong to an organization that demands obedience to god. That is a personal decision that each person makes for him or herself, and I don't need the Boy Scouts indoctrinating my son into religion which, of course, is virtually always a focus on Christianity.
If we want religion we'll go to a church, synagogue, or mosque, thank you. And if we want our son to experience the outdoors and learn team values and leadership skills, we obviously won't be going to the Boy Scouts of America.
32
From what is known to date, it appears that the leader of the Cub Scout pack objected to the political views expressed by Ames Mayfield and wanted him out of den which he oversaw. Although Ames will continue in another den, the handling of this episode is big mistake for the Boy Scouts of America.
The Boy Scouts should teach civic engagement and help boys learn to respectfully disagree about contentious issues. Hopefully, that could be one way in which we learn to have a more respectful political discourse. However, by allowing an adult to institute a political filter on participation in dens, the Boy Scouts will only come to mirror the political divisions of the country, and what kind of civic lesson is that for young boys?
9
My favorite childhood story is "The Emperor's New Clothes." Once again a child points out what an adult should have done instead of what they did. If you have not read the story in a while please take the time to re-read it out loud if possible to a group of children.
4
This young man was punished for asking topical, political questions of a politician. Clearly, there is no scouting badge for upholding the First Amendment.
17
Beyond outrageous. The fact that the kid was almost certainly coached is beside the point. If some topics were off limits, if there was a cap on how long questions could be, that should have been announced up front (and even then debated, since why bring in a super conservative speaker and then deny the right to ask hard questions??). To kick the kid out is pure, grotesquely unfair, partisan politics being played by the head of that troop.
13
The speaker wasn't brought in because she was conservative. She was brought in because she represented the district in Congress.
Feeding a kid a long-winded predigested question is not beside the point, as you say. It is the entire point. It's the pathetic cry of a lonely adult devoid of elevated purpose and self-worth. The kid's mom usurped his right to ask his own question in his own way.
Anything for attention. Disgusting.
Way to go Ames. You make me proud to have been a scout.
6
When Ames becomes a Boy Scout he can work towards the "Merit Badge for Citizenship in the Nation." The requirement appears to be easy enough: "Don't question authority."
8
Political knowledge or interest expressed by children will likely be influenced by parents. The election of Trump has an unintended consequence of children becoming much more aware of the problems in the world they live in and will one day have to navigate as adults. Sure, the mother probably helped him with the questions they were asked to prepare. But that's not really the point. Look at all the multi-generational political families we have in the US. The press secretary grew up helping her dad campaign. Governor Cuomo was also raised in politics.
If these organizations don't want "politically charged" situations, then stop bringing in politicians to speak to the children. And from what I understand isn't a major component of the Boy Scouts and Cub scouts teaching children about civic responsibility and community engagement? I don't see how those aims can be accomplished apolitically.
9
Foolish response, if they did not want some things questioned rules should have been made before the meeting and questions cleared. She should have had answers in any case. I also wonder why one individual got so many questions, seems like one per person would be more appropriate.
2
You mean they should sanitize the questions because the grown up lady is to sensitive to answer questions from boy scouts? How silly. His queries showed extreme thoughtfulness from such a young boy and were topical. And who are you to say how many questions should be allowed...she obviously let him continue.
3
“Out of the mouths of babes”. So this is where we are as a society? A child is penalized for asking a pointed, intelligent question of a legislator! The Scout troop,in question, should have held this kid up as an example rather than punish him. If gun advocates can not face and answer legitimate questions about gun violence perhaps their justifications no longer are valid.
145
He was parroting a contrived question made up by mom who was recording the event to post on the net. Pathetic ..
1
Either you don't have children, or you've raised your children to not question the world around them. I am so tired of people's low expectations of kids intelligence.
Not all children only read comic books. Some actually read the newspaper. I did, and my kids did. I raised children to question and have minds of their own. And each of them at this age could have asked similar questions.
4
There is nothing wrong with removing this kid from the pack and putting him in another. Cub Scouting is for the 7 to 10 year old age group. I would submit this kid was primed by someone else with this type of questioning. Your story should really be about how people use their children inappropriately.
6
I don't know.. my kids got very involved in current events at that age, all on their own. Maybe your kids, if you have any, didn't. You "would submit" it, but doesn't mean he was "used inappropriately." If you have kids, maybe yours are super agreeable. But mine would never have engaged like that just because I wanted them to.
3
I submit that every one of those boys were encouraged by their parents to ask questions to which the parents wanted answers. Few 7 - 10 year olds are poIitical. If the boy had a birthday, he would have been older than ten and he was preparing to move on to the boy scouts already. You miss the importance of the story when you feel that shuning a child for asking pertinent questions isn't an issue that should be explored.
1
Perhaps you don't have children. The one thing I always tell friends who are becoming new parents: don't even underestimate what they know and what they can learn. None of he children in my blended family would have had a problem coming up with probing questions on these issues. Your point is just another example of how we persistently sell our children short.
12
No wonder my father never allowed me to enroll in scouting!
What a disgrace.
Never realized they were practitioners of that form of mind control.
Now that insane speech that Trump gave at their "jamboree" or whatever that was a few months ago makes more sense, I'm sure they loved it!
29
My father was not a "jerk", and I resent that characterization.
And I could have come up with those questions as an 11 year old.
1
His mother stated that the cubs were invited to prepare questions to ask the guest speakers who were politicians. Even if his mother or another adult encouraged him to ask those questions, that is no different to legislators being persuaded by lobbyist and their staff to ask questions or take a particular policy stand. The fact that this cub had the ability to sustain a two minute question is to be admired,what we don’t admire is that the politicians couldn’t handle the questions and then did not protect this boy from being kicked out of the den.
1
It’s the American way now; no accountability when it comes to politics.
Shame on State Senator Vicki Marble for not even attempting to answer the question, she completely went around it. Shame on the Boy Scouts of America & Cub Scouts; is this how they train future leaders by censoring and casting aside?
As far as the pack leader is concerned, he/she is most likely a Trump supporter.
68
Good for you Ames . You are exactly what America needs . Young people listening to what is going on in government and taking a stand for what is good for our country and not those puppets in congress.
190
Read those questions again. You don't really think Ames worded them himself, do you?
1
good advice for Ames as well as everyone else in the country.
Pathetic as politics, as a teachable moment, as an example for a thoughtful young citizen who, at least by this account, asked nothing untoward. Clearly, most of the "adults" were taken aback by a precocious young man. One can ask questions or request solutions by "leaders" of the community, but if those elders don't like the questions or what those questions imply, you may be punished. Even if those questions are exactly those that dedicated citizens should be asking. He showed initiative that challenges official group think party dogma.
Young Mr. Mayfield did get both sides of the story. Ms. Marble called the young fellow misinformed and in effect a liar, however, the transcription of the video rather corroborates his take on the matter and only compounds the insult.
Perhaps it's a consequence of the "genetic makeup" of conservative politicians to be arrogantly tossing off final answers to sensible questions they have barely begun to understand.
157
Give that child a badge for the courage for speaking truth to power. And give the leader of the cubs a badge for cowardice.
62
I didn't realize that Cub Scouts met with state legislators. Well, good. Teach young people to engage with their government.
Sounds like the den leader objected to the 11-year old's questions--which were no doubt scripted or encouraged by his parents, 11-year olds being under their influence. But that would also be true of the rest of the scouts at that age. They arranged the event; they should have been prepared for parent-influenced questions. It appears that the den leader has different political views than those of the Mayfield family, and punished the child for those differences.
But the state legislator, Ms. Marble? She can't handle questions from a child in front of a Cub Scout troop without responding respectfully and thoughtfully? That's the story here.
515
I saw nothing in this that Ms. Marble responded disrespectfully or thoughtlessly, but the questions were hardly offered in a non-argumentative way to begin with (read them again), so she certainly had the right to tell the kid (or tell his mother) that he should get both sides of a story before he asks such accusatory questions publicly.
The suggestion by Kay that these questions were 'parent scripted' says to me that the author does not know many precocious 11 year olds, like my kids were. The scout, told to prepare questions for the senator, could easily have searched the web, googled the Senator's positions and remarks, and prepared questions without parental guidance. Our schools now train that skill. Yes, the questions might have been prepared by or heavily influenced by parents, but do not assume that. Do not underestimate our 11 year olds.
6
In fact, according to local news reporters who interviewed Ames Mayfield and his mother, he is a precocious boy who thoughtfully studied the issues and came up with the questions himself. He did show them to his mother prior to the event, and she simply told him to be polite. He wasn't coached. Rather than the legislator's defensive responses, I think the story is that the Boy Scouts seem unable to tolerate anything other than conservative points of view.
3
“the more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed.”
This statement says it all. In a country with more gun deaths than any except for the war torn regions (where guns are also prevalent) for a Senator to make a false statement like this is mind numbing. But perhaps that is the intention.
I love the Scouts. It was a great part of my youth.
17
"... we are an inclusive group regardless of politics, religion, gender and race.”
Which is a lie. Atheists need not apply. So it's not at all surprising that a "leader" would have a beef with a kid who asked too many good questions. On the other hand, I was around 11 when Richard Nixon went down, and even though I followed the whole thing like a junkie waiting for another fix, I don't think I could have formulated questions quite so pointed and informed as this lad did. I'd wager a cream doughnut that his mum put him up to it. It would have been much better coming from an Eagle Scout with his own ideas better formulated. On the other other hand, it's pretty clear that Marble is a racist and should be called out for every dumb, wicked, racist thing she says.
12
If there was a "Truth to Power" badge, he definitely earned it.
Or his mom did...
9
If his mother fed him the questions he earned nothing. He just learned how to lie and deceive.
Q
Yeah right like you have never asked for help in writing something. He still asked the tough question which makes him braver than about 90 % of this country and should be praised not treated like a liar.
Why does the politicians get off for lying and deceiving? Or don't you care that we are being lied and deceived by republicans every day just look at trump who is a pathological liar.
2
I agree that the scouts have a duty to participate in civics. However, the questions asked by the 11 year old were given to him by an adult. How could he know that the Senator made a statement 2 years ago when he was 9? If the scouts want to promote involvement in social and political arenas, let them ask the questions, not the parents.
8
How could I know that the founding fathers made statements about independence in 1776? After all, I wasn't even born.
Oh right - I could look it up, just like this cub scout did!
1
Do you have proof of that? I didn’t think so.
He should have asked the real question -how much was she being paid by the NRA to hold such a position. I'm guessing tens of thousands of dollars. What a rotten country this is...
14
Good question.
And, vulcanalex, possibly those of us who are disappointed in the path our country has taken are the ones who care enough to want it to be a better place. You should be upset that this child's right to free speech was violated.
This is actually a very dangerous turn of events. One day, those who speak out against the things they believe are wrong are kicked out of Cub Scouts, next, they're fired from their job, next, they're not allowed to publish newspaper articles or tell the truth at news stations, then after that they're made enemies of the state. The next step is they either disappear or are executed.
This is not about whether or not an 11-year-old thought up the questions on his own. This is about the infringement of one American's constitutional right to freedom of speech and what happens if Americans don't start demanding that our government officials actually protect our constitution and our rights. We also need to demand nothing less than the truth from our government officials.
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Martin Niemoller
1
As a former Eagle Scout, I am appalled at this, that Cub leader should be removed and the distancing of the BSA is equally cowardly. This is not way to teach citizenship or promote healthy democratic values. I more like something you'd find, wait for it....in Russia.
30
This is not teaching citizenship since this child is not thinking for himself. Just a puppet
1
Simple: Ames Mayfield for president 2048
10
Except, sadly, our country needs his kind of honesty and courage NOW!
My best friend was an Eagle Scout who greatly benefited from the Scouts in terms of core values, practical skills and leadership. He is also gay and tends to support liberal political candidates. He is beyond upset at what has happened to the Boy Scouts since they were largely taken over by right wing fundamentalist churches and moved to Texas.
What a sorry example this Scout troop is to America's youth! What an accurate example of how twisted their core values have become. Sad.
40
So, what's the pack leader's name and why haven't the BSA canned the pack leader?
20
I find it also interesting that the scout leader or den leader, or whatever he/she was, wasn't named. What is he/she so ashamed of? Possibly for punishing a cub scout for actually being all the things they espouse (yet obviously don't really believe or encourage)? They should be ashamed!
2
What a shame there is no more childhood left. I doubt that Ames’ age 11thought up these questions himself. Can’t his parents just let him be a kid?
6
As an eleven year old (sixth grade btw) I certainly asked such kind of questions! This is a preteen developing critical thinking skills and engaging in the public world. What an amazing success story of parenting!
12
Gosh! How many people are going to go to the trouble to post here about how an 11-year-old couldn't POSSIBLY come up with these questions on his own. Maybe it's all fake news. Yeah, it's so much better to just assume (and you know what that means) everyone is stupid. I guess that's what Senator Marble did and why she couldn't answer the questions. And, what a surprise (!), when she couldn't come up with honest answers to honest questions, she got belligerent, rude and spouted off a bunch of lies. Sound like anyone else in politics these days?
4
My kids were both kids and intelligent, critical thinkers. How sad that your definition of being a kid precludes being intelligent and interested in the world you inhabit.
2
I expect this is mostly a matter of one "pack leader" (snowflake den mother?) getting triggered by 11-year-old's question about gun control. But a sad day when 2nd Amendment becomes a shibboleth for Cub Scout membership.
7
The author clearly does not understand the relationship between a den, a pack, and a troop. If those simple facts cannot be verified, the entire article is suspect. NYT is not doing its job.
1
If this is so crucial to the story, why don't you explain it to us?
5
Poor sensitive flower has to tell on an 11-year old. What's she doing in public office?
5
Well, I just want to say this is nuts! A political test for Cub Scouts? Comically surreal!
3
This 11 year old kid is either a political savant, or he was primed for the meeting.
9
Eleven year-olds are middle school kids. They are not too young to learn to question authority, delve into current events, research issues, and have opinions. No doubt gun control has been discussed in the Mayfield family around the dinner table. Good for them. We've had our share of white male shooters here in Colorado. A kid about to become a teen should have knowledge and opinions about issues that apply to his/her community. My guess is that Ames is passionate about the issue, and got help from his parents in phrasing a question for the legislator, rather than that the parents put him up to it. The Mayfields evidently have taught their son well, to see his government as participatory rather than dictatorial. Democracy at work!
13
It sounds to me as if he has been brought up by rational parents. I don't know if the specific questions were discussed with his parents, I suspect they were; I would suggest that that is what parents are supposed to do. I do know that if I had an 11 year old around the house he or she would be aware of the problematic quality of a government rep who asserted that a plethora of guns in a society is sure to reduce crime and murders. I would be voicing my opinion of that rep loudly and frequently within the small confines of my influence. At any rate the child - and likely the neighbors - would certainly be aware of the parental stance. The sins - and the virtues - of the fathers are visited on the sons, even to the seventh generation - or so I've been told.
Either way so what he had tough questions that this politician could not answer. She and the den leaders are trying to brainwash these kids.
So I guess our Cub Scouts are bring taught that free speech doesn't apply, nor does participatory democracy, when you are dealing with Republican incumbents.
Let's get those lessons done young, so they can quickly grow to understand the world we've given them.
17
"Free "speech may not apply. The government may not interfere or in any way encumber your right to free speech, but that does not necessarily hold true for employers, private groups and organizations, etc. After all, if a kid got up on a Sunday morning in church and started spouting atheism, the church leaders would be under no legal compulsion to allow him to do so or even remain in that church. Like it or not, that's the way it is, and if people were better educated, they would understand that "participatory democracy" does not obtain in a private organization any more than it does in the U.S. Army.
Ms. Marble: “the more guns a society has, the less crime or murders are committed.”
I'm speechless. Blatant, shameless, lie or gross stupidity? This 'State Senator' needs to either educate herself or wash her mouth out with soap before she presumes to answer questions from children.
I'm glad this boy found another troop, since the one he was in obviously knows nothing about what the Boy Scouts are supposed to be about, one of them being telling the truth.
10
He was cut off after 2.5 minutes - that's not a question, that's a scripted speech, written by his Mom. His speech included asking, "Why on Earth would you..." Then he followed up by asking about some comments from years ago. That is disrespectful. They're 11.
For those of you about to object, flip the parties and the topics, and see what you reaction is. If in a similar situation, a Scout had asked Hillary Clinton "Why did you leave four people to die in Benghazi," would you be upset? If yes, then don't be upset here.
4
Good point, perhaps the rules should have been one question, and in the form of a question as a popular game requires.
I would expect her to handle the question and not seek the child's ouster from the Cub Scouts! The more so since he was obviously the mom's proxy.
3
How cowardly and dishonest our so-called representatives have become. They can't even tell the truth to an 11 year old. What a disgrace. Senator Marble should resign.
8
I guess boy scouts are only supposed to think about building fires and setting up tents. Can't have them question authority, now can we? And sho' nuff, them black kids is experts on chitlin's and fried chicken!
The 2 minute question seems to have been extremely well researched and articulately presented. What an amazing production from an 11-year-old Cub Scout. It is very sad that he suffered the consequences he did. I hope all the adults involved with rethink their actions.
87
Questions to a politician are too political? Good lord.
Here's a better idea--Bring the Ames back kid back into the den and kick out the leader.
475
Leave it to a kid to tell it like it is. The good news is that young man's generation may just change things. It's a very long process, it swings back and forth, but holding an adult's feet to the fire is a good place to start.
269
I think I agree with the den mother on this one. The purpose of the Cub Scouts, as I understand it, is to teach self sufficiency, preparedness, working in a group, etc. There are some areas where politics don’t need to intrude.
3
Shouldn't Cub Scouts be "prepared" to read about the world around them and consider the consequences of decisions that politicians make? That's preparing them to be good voters and citizens.
4
The Scout law, as explained on their website:
"By being a good family member and a good citizen, by working for your country's good and obeying its laws, you do your duty to your country."
Also: "Staying mentally awake means learn all you can, be curious, and ask questions."
So there is that.
5
"There are some areas where politics don’t need to intrude."
Such as bringing in a sleazoid politician speaker?
It appears that the reality of the skills you present -- self sufficiency, preparedness, working in a group, etc. -- were presented quite effectively, by Ames, and in reverse, by the den leader and the cheesy politician. Ames was spectacular. Marble clearly needs to go.
Who elects people like this?
10
They shouldn't have kicked him out, but I watched the video, and the kid did not ask a question, he gave a political speech. He had it all written down, and it went on forever. Sad that the Mom uses him as a political prop.
13
While fully in accord with the gist of this young man's questioning of Sen. Marble, I have to admit to a bit of disbelief that an 11-year old possesses the maturity to pose such an elaborate query, even going back to reprise an event that occurred when he was 7 years old and that had no direct connection to the subject of his question. If he composed his question unassisted, he is extremely precocious and destined to be an adult of consequence.
4
BSA has recently announced that they are planning to accept girls, under certain limited circumstances. If BSA expects to increase its membership, it needs to deal with a pack leader who arranges a meeting with a political figure--an entirely appropriate activity for Scouts--and then tries to censor the questions the Scouts ask. Ames' questions were not out of line. The pack was.
38
Maybe he's just precocious, from a social consciousness perspective, but appears like the 11 year old was coached by his mom. Not a big fan of thrusting kids into adult situations. But it's hard to have sympathy for the state senator. It's amazing she is still in office but I suspect it has something to do with her fealty to the NRA. In a less-bizzaro world, anyone who suggests that the solution to mass killings is to arm people with more guns wouldn't be allow too walk across the street by themselves, let alone hold a position in state government.
28
Let me assure you that some 11 year old children are very aware of what is going on in this country and can form their own questions and opinions. Yes, they come from parents who are modeling good citizenship and teaching what it is to be a part of a larger world. I am proud of this young man.
5
Have you come into contact with kids? I have read this over and over from commenters. Yes he might have been coached by his mom but kids can come up with complex thoughts and tough questions sine both of my kids have been asking questions like these and they are younger.
3
Sounds like all the republican reps in my area. They can't handle an honest question whether it's from an adult or a smart 11 year old. They don't want to answer important questions. You can't get to their voice mails, you get back form letter responses to inquiries, sticking to party lines and never justifying their reasoning.
376
As an ex-scout leader I think that the pack leader who was upset about the issue of gun control needs to step down in the interest of the scout program. The fact that this boy is concerned about a very important subject in todays world shows that he is aware of his surroundings and is trying to open a dialog to be better informed.
I remember explaining to my scouts about hand guns when a young boy picked one up and thinking it was a toy shot and killed his brother.
Hopefully that scout will grow up to become a leader in his community and do good things for our country.
153
BTO , let me get this right...You were showing some Scouts some loaded handguns and one Scout shot and killed another,during your demonstration?When and where did this happen? It sounds too unbelievable to be true....
3
Pretty sure he's saying that incident happened, perhaps in the community, *and therefore* he explained handguns to his scouts.
5
That's right: teach kids early to stay away from tough subjects; teach them not to ask questions; teach them to keep their mouths shut. After all, what do they know?
116
This is irony. Right? After reading comments that excoriate parents - Well, at least "tut-tut" them in a particularly dimwitted and condescending manner - for influencing their children to respect facts and question delusional politicians, I can't be sure.
We walked out of our first scout meeting when I learned that Ann Coulter would be the headlining speaker at their fundraiser that year.
54
Ann Coulter? Truly? What in the world does she have to do with BSA? Sounds like they have been politicized. No wonder their membership has shrunk.
3
If the Boy Scouts say they are non-political, why did the Den person invite a politician to speak? Was the State Senator running for re-election and the Den person want to give her exposure? Because it sure sounds like it. The 11 year old boy asked a really important question and the State Senator blew it.
These scouts are supposed to be learning about truth and the Den person and the State Senator failed the test. The Boy Scouts of America are having a real image problem right now.
367
Yes, though the scouts (the kids) are fine -- it's the adults and politicians latching onto them (the President, this Senator) who have the problems.
It seems to me that Ames Mayfield learned some very finite truths. He learned that a politician is not an honest respondent to questioning. He learned that a politician responds to questioning by attacking, and not always attacking with the truth. And he learned that acting outside of the norms of his peer group, or outside of the norms of adults in his peer environment, will result in punishments. Valuable lessons for an 11-year-old. I wonder if the Boy Scouts have a merit badge for this lesson.
1
yeah except he didn't write the question
It would be interesting to get the Den Leader's side of this story. As told by Ms. Mayfield, it certainly sounds bad - but we don't honestly expect her to go public with a story that makes her son sound bad, do we?
Ms. Marble is, from what I've read, likely a gun-lover with some racist tendencies. It is also possible, though, that young Mr. Mayfield was "coached up" by mom to be a self-styled gadfly who tried to turn a routine scouting event into a display of how politically dialed-in he is. The fact that his "questions" ran over two minutes is certainly consistent with the latter proposition.
3
Clearly the Republican state senator can't handle tough questions, even when they come from an 11-year-old. What's the big surprise?
Given her president's appalling performance before Boy Scouts, she and the den leader have no basis at all for disparaging the questions as "politicization." Free speech is every bit as much a right as gun ownership in this country.
73
I write as a former scout and a parent of scouts.
Although I sense possible (and permissible) parental involvement in preparing this young man's questions, the party who should be forced out here is not this strong and courageous young scout but rather the weak and cowardly "man" claiming to speak for the organization. That controlling adult, speaking only for himself and perhaps a few self-important cronies, is a disgrace to scouting.
261
Well said. One of the goals of the World Scout Organization is to build citizenship. Even though the organization in the U.S. somehow marches to a slightly different drum than its peers around the world, its basics are the same. Scouts (no matter their -our- age) are supposed to be curious, to engage, to explore, to help and to be of service to their (our) countries -or the whole world, anyway. Isn't that what Ames did? I hope this is a blessing in disguise for him, so he can find a tolerant den and troop and become the man and the citizen every scout should aspire to be.
So the boy was influenced by his parents.......who influenced the guests legislators in their policy stand on guns,health care & the constitution?
1
I hope he will find a more welcoming pack. Kudos to this smart and articulate young man. We do not want to squelch his right to question what he considers important issues. He is the best citizen of the present and the future!
Thanks for writing about this poor episode! Maybe the Boy Scouts will learn from this.
17
Exiling a Cub Scout? Are there no limits? What's next?
Every day seems to have become a steppingstone on the way to a very weird destination. There is the occasional good news (the canning of Harvey Weinstein, for example) but for the most part things are getting increasingly strange.
Was it always this bad? Do I just follow the news too closely now? Or has society been gripped by some mean gene or malevolence virus - starting at the top?
The troubling thing is that there is not even one iota of shame as we spiral into the mud. A significant section of the population now regard this as normal.
89
Ames must be a truly exceptional 11 year old to have crafted a complex question that took "more than two minutes." "Ms. Mayfield (Ames' mother) said the den leader’s response might have been fueled by her decision to post the videos of the senator’s interaction with the scouts online, where they were picked up by the local news media."
The question is extremely important. The senator's, den leader's, and area council's responses look familiar. The media response looks familiar. I'm still waiting for a straight answer to “Why on earth would you want somebody who beats their wife to have access to a gun?”
35
I'll provide you a straight answer to the "why on earth" question.
At present, the Lautenberg amendment to the federal gun control act precludes those convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence from gun ownership or possession. False allegations of domestic violence are a common strategy in divorce and custody cases (and while the direction of the accusations are most often female to male, they can also be male to female, which makes the boy's question sexist in addition to being fallacious). That is, it is fairly easy to be convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, particularly when pleading guilty (or no contest in California) will bring a quick end to a legal ordeal that will allow the accused to focus on their civil case. I would like to further point out that a misdemeanor conviction can come from the allegation of a crime that does not include physical contact. So much for the "beats their wife."
This means, then, that unlike any other constitutional right, a citizen's second amendment right may forever be revoked on the simple conviction of a misdemeanor crime. We treat no other right this way. Depending on the state in which you live, your second amendment rights may be restored to you, if the state expunges your record and that expungement includes the restoration of your right to bear arms. I would guess (but do not know) that the state senator was sponsoring a bill that would restore a misdemeanants second amendment rights upon expungement
Again some one else interpreting he second admendemnt like there's some god given right to kill whoever you want. The 2nd admendemnt was a bout a well regulated militia in a time where there was need for militias. That is no longer the case and why can't as intelligent humans progress to not giving people the right to blow up whoever we want?
Domestic violence is not made up and accounts for a lot of gruesome deaths to women by men every day, none of these cretins should be anywhere near a gun.
4
I was not interpreting the second amendment in any way at all. I was, however, pointing out that the bar for forever losing your second amendment rights is extremely low. I'd like to further point out that in some states, should you commit a felony, you may have a path to having those rights restored but that a misdemeanor will leave you forever bereft. This is non-rational. In addition, that misdemeanor conviction could be for harassment or some other such offense that does not involve "beating your wife."
Thus the child's question about "why on earth" would the Senator sponsor a bill that would allow "somebody who beats their wife to have access to a gun" was misleading. Those convicted of misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence may have been falsely accused as a means of gaining leverage in a divorce case, or may have committed and been convicted of a crime that did not involve violence. Also, women commit domestic violence in nearly equal numbers as men, and are more likely to use a weapon in doing so.
What ever happened to free speech? Were the Cub Scouts only supposed to ask questions that the senator would like?This boy should have been commended for asking two very important questions, not banned form his troop!!!
23
I would have removed the Scout Leader for not supporting the Constitution and Freedom of Speech. Now that would have been a life-long lesson in democracy at its finest. Instead, the den received a memorable lesson in censorship and suppression of opposing opinions.
40
I doubt the 11 year old scout wrote, "I was shocked that you co-sponsored a bill to allow domestic violence offenders to continue to own a gun. Why on earth would you want someone who beats their wife to have access to a gun?" Or how about, "There's something wrong in our country where Republicans believe it's a right to own a gun, but a privilege to have health care." Mom channeled her politics through her scout and happened to attend with video for her YouTube channel. The "question" went on for over 2 minutes! Right.
11
It's a shame that Ames had to leave his den and presumably his pack of friends all because his mother chose to use him as a surrogate to confront and embarrass a politician whose positions she disagrees with. The length of the question and the vocabulary used (i.e., "common-sense gun laws"; "I was shocked"; "domestic violence"; "I was astonished...") clearly indicate mommy wrote the question. Hopefully Ames will grow up to learn to speak for himself.
4
Jeff
Clearly that is not the point. The point is that if you do have some critical questions and the leaders can not answer then they are not true leaders and should be removed. The kids asked thoughtful questions and was shunned because of that. The Boy Scout leader is a disgrace as a human being and should not be leading other kids up unless you are ok with thought police and fascism.
3
Sorry earthgve but you clearly know nothing of cub scouts. This was all about the parents and not fascism, nice leap though.
A Den is a group of 8 boys from the same grade at school, and the leader is a parent volunteer of one of those boys. Its likely this was the last straw and the other 5-8 families wanted nothing more to do with this family. And yes he could have told them to leave instead. But how would that have made that one boy left alone without a leader felt. Parent behave badly, both the ones who asked questions that upset the other parents, and the parents who are not accepting of other with different parenting styles. As a Cub Scout leader I've seen similar drama play out.
I guess the Cub Scouts don't have a freedom of speech merit badge.
32
It's apparent that some of the Boy Scouts of America's local units cannot fit the needs of just any boy.
How is this handled? Are their published lists with criteria and/or specialties available?
It also seems that the Boy Scouts of America will accept females (see "we are an inclusive group regardless of politics, religion, gender and race.") Or does "gender" now mean "male gender" and "female gender?"
I'm wondering about all this.
1
Whenever someone defends the indefensible with, "When you look at ... " then you know the truth is about to be tossed out. Ms. Marble ought to be tossed out of The Cub Scouts right along with her falsehood. Given how she has conducted her affairs in the past, this ought already to have happened.
5
Welcome to Trump’s America, where an elected official can’t handle questions from a child and has to lie her way out of the situation and the scouts tell a kid “you’re fired” for speaking truth to power. Maybe the Scouts should create a new merit badge for moral cowardice.
16
The home page of the Boy Scouts of America states that one of its roles is training "in responsibilities of participating citizenship." If the cub scout pack leader was concerned by the length or manner of the child's in-depth questioning of a politician, he could have conducted a follow-up session with the pack about most effective methods of communication. Instead, he substituted his own political views in order to exclude and demonize a child. What a negative lesson in citizenship, not only for the boy involved, but all other members of the troop who have witnessed what happens to someone who asks questions deemed "wrong" by an authoritarian leader. Rather than agree with the banishment of the child, it seems to me that BSA should remove this leader who is clearly unfit or incapable of teaching "participating citizenship."
538
Amen. This so-called "leader" has no place in Scouting.
5
Welcome to corporate America.
2
The official Republican Boy Scout Oath or Promise
"On my right-wing honor, I will do my fascist best
To do my blind duty to God and my country and to obey Republican Law;
To help other GOPeople at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally shunted and morally medieval."
Welcome to the Bound and Gagged Boy Scouts of America, where the 1st Amendment has no place and hard questions deserve very serious punishment, reassignment and suppression.
Looks like the Boy Scouts of Republistan have abandoned American values once again.
Disgraceful.
264
Unless this poisonous leader is remived, this Cub Scout is better off in a new Den. The political and religious grab on BSA has always been a problem. I was never interested in having my children participate because of their ideological restrictions.
4
One adult leader had a problem with the cub's questions, not the entire BSA.
1
But Socrates you failed in your duty here to blame EVERYTHING (and I mean EVERYTHING) on Putin.
AS though our business partners, like actually totalitarian still Communist China are far 'better' than Russia when it comes to killing its own Citizens (10 vs 10,000 dissidents per year) As though 1950's to 70's McCarthyism against actual Soviets supporters was 'terrible' but wonderful and truth perfect (without evidence but lot's of 'me too' guesswork against the merely accused and those who do business in Russia)
And while bigotry is a terrible thing when done by racist cops or Republicans, group stereotypes work great when used by Democrats or against those terrible Russians who simply lack our talent in supplying and supporting real terrorists (Taliban, ISIS in Syria, Al Qaida in Saudia Arabia: home of the 911 bombers).
And with allies like Duterte and our support for dictatorship over democracy (Egypt, Honduras, Ukraine) or our desire too (Turkey, Venezuela) as well as our great ability to utterly destroy once functioning societies (Syria, Libya) we are so clearly morally perfect, right SOCRATES???
And lastly of course IF Putin sent 90 Moscovites into hospital for peacefully protesting in Moscow we would shout 'Stalin again' while of course hospitalizing 900 in Spain's 'democracy' is rightly downplayed by the same MSM that built Trump with eternal coverage but prefer to blame Russia, rather than the 53% White women who voted for him, or Sanders, or the FBI, or...'
1
A disgusting example of state control, starting with the youngest.
Sounds like Russia, circa 1930's, when Stalin took over.
210
"A disgusting example of state control, starting with the youngest."
You have just perfectly described public (i.e. state) education.
2
Don't call this state control, BSA is a private organization.
4
Charles - give us your thoughts on privatizing everything the government now does - National Defense, Police Protection, etc. A true disciple of Ann Rand provides for their every need - accepting no assistance from any government - right ?