The power companies say it is too expensive to bury the wires...now, a billion dollars burned up, humans and animals paying with their lives for the folly...and this is but one of dozens of fires over the state and country where power lines are the causal "smoking guns"...Better the billion dollars spent getting rid of the power poles in prudent anticipation of the disaster and no fire...now we have only misery to show for the cost!
7
According to some media outlets the fires were cause in part by illegal immigrants setting them deliberately. All the more reason we need a wall to stop the flow "immigrants" entering America illegally. End illegal immigration now and forever! If the vineyards need immigrant labor, then the nation should establish a guest worker program, allow the immigrant laborers to enter the nation to perform the work, then ship them back. What's wrong with that? Oh, I forgot, the Democrat Party will lose its constituency. Some where the USA lost its way. What a shame. What a terrible shame.
3
Could somebody carelessly tossing a lit cigarette butt out of a window of a vehicle while driving down the road start this?
2
Helping the insurance companies save money really is the government’s number one priority, and they’re not afraid to admit it. In some ways it’s nice it all so out in the open these days. Now we all no longer have to think that maybe we’re just crazy for believing what we do. The truth about bondage can be liberating in some ways.
Could the wealthiest country on the planet afford to place power lines underground? This would prove a sensible investment, certainly for California and places in the arid South-West. Underground power lines might be a better idea than ......
14
Earthquakes? Runoff floods? Slides? Property owners' opposition? Cost?
We have no above-ground wires in my neighborhood, and no great movements of earth to worry about, but a broken 220 connection happened anyway and left us de-stoved for a week, and wondering what a heavy wire's break might have done. The line from a shared tie was fixed permanently after winter,,,
Long distance power transmission is a risky and perhaps outdated arrangement. Local solar, wind, tidal, and geothermal might reduce the need for huge towers in rural areas.
1
Walter, of course we could, just like we could afford a national health plan and higher education at lower costs, if not entirely free. But we're too busy giving tax breaks to the wealthiest among us and corporations, like oil companies, because you know, they need them. And making bombs, we make lots and lots of bombs.
9
No mention of the extensive use of Solar Power by California’s wineries, almost 50 in NAPA valley alone. Predictable mention of PG&E, California’s favorite punching bag, and other favorites, including winds cause by “climate change”, a meaningless tired phrase used by Obama-era junk scientists, both thankfully finally on way out, and a new one, head-scratching satanic rituals. Guaranteeing, one way or the other, the shoving of this sad event firmly under carpet, and arm-wringing insurance companies to pay-up or else. All good.
Meanwhile, residents close to gleaming panels better take note: can go up in flames just like that. Yeah, like that. At the very least, stick to beer, should send them wineries a strong message. Gulp.
2
I gather that you think solar power panels work like the magnifying glasses you used to set fire to ants when you were a kid.
Otherwise, it may be of use to note that nobody says global warming was simply responsible for these fires.
What the science suggests, more and more strongly, is that we are "loading the dice," towards climate change, and towards extreme weather.
In particular, the thought is that California will get "warmer, wetter," winters, and hotter summers. Just to fill you in, the first means--along with the CO2 increases you lot keep saying help plants grow, one supposes--that you get more fuel lying around, and drier fuel at that.
Guess what? This increases the chance of a random spark igniting a fire, guarantees a hotter fire, and tends to spread fires across larger areas when they do appear.
Complex causality, dude. Been a thing since Aristotle.
3
"I told my wife, ‘There’s no way a fireman can control that kind of wind.’” He unplugged his desktop computer, put it in his car and drove off."
It sounds as if he left his wife behind!
OK, I live in a rural area. We have above ground power lines out there because no one could afford to bury power lines. Ask swamped and flooded Houston about buried power lines.
As all of us out there know, in the country, you are at the mercy of any idiot with a car and a cigarette.
4
There is something extremely suspicious about these fires. They were not close to each other at the onset. There were over 10 fires that began at a similar time. Then, over the next two weeks, there were fires in San Rafael, Sausalito, Santa Cruz Mountains and Yosemite during a time where there were no lightining storms or very high winds to knock down power lines. This could easily be a new form of attack on American people. People who want to create damage are not limited to conventional attacks anymore. The citizenry need to stand up.
5
Such an extremely scary thought or theory. This never, ever crossed my mind.
Although could be pyromaniac(s).
2
Govt isn't likely to tell us that arsonists are responsible,since it would likely encourage a lot of crazy copycats.
1
Great. Let's just all dive down that "it mighta, so it did, and government'll cover up the proof," rabbit-hole.
Much easier than so much as recognizing climate change, urban sprawl, bad forestry practices, and lazy homeowners.
1
It actually doesn't matter what or who started the fires.
Fires, whether caused by human-caused global warming, or by arsonists, WILL occur.
The question that is never asked is, What will humans do to prepare for the next big fire?
Sadly, the answer to the question is "Little or nothing."
Denial is cheaper in the short-term.
And in the long-term? Who cares? No one.
1
Let's hope there was no malicious human behavior that caused these tragedies. Good Luck to the fire investigators. To those who lost loved ones and/or homes/possessions in the fire please know you are thought of each day with compassion. It is almost impossible to understand what you are going through unless one has also gone through themselves. Fortunately, I have not. However, There, but for the grace of the universe and Mother Nature, go I.
6
Many commenters ask why power lines aren't placed underground in California, and mention the cost would certainly be reasonable compared to the benefits. An article by CNN from 2014 answered that question when asked by citizens of NC at 41 billion for that State. California is 3.2 times larger than NC, so if the percentage of aerial utilities is the same in both States, that's 131.2 billion to underground power lines in California.
As a retired utility worker I used to get this question a lot. When I retired, trenching and placing cost approx $200 a foot for a telephone cable. Electrical is far more expensive, with underground power cable 4 times as expensive as aerial cable. In my opinion the estimate in the CNN article is far less than the actual cost. In addition, I can tell you from experience it is many times more expensive to fix a buried utility cable than an aerial one.
Who would pay for that? I often got the statement from those asking the question of why the lines weren't underground that "I pay my taxes, this should be free!" Right. A larger tax bill or a larger utility bill, take your choice when demanding that all utilities be transferred to underground.
9
Do buried power lines stop some fool from flicking a cigarette out the window? No, and I am sure that is probably how the fire started.
2
All new housing or any types of developments built today should have this underground or buried wiring be done. It should be the cost of doing business.
The poles in my neighborhood look as if they are temporary, like after a hurricane has hit or something. All old and tilting and now over weighted with cables/boxes more than ever. Dangerous and not very prudent.
You surely have or had job security.
If PR designs their new electrical grid above ground what do you think will happen in the future when the next storm comes along?
3
how much would you equate the cost of all these lost lives?
The 19th and 20th century infrastructure of above ground power still strung all over the country is a big problem. Also people are living in places that used to be uninhabited. It is becoming apparent that humans are once again the cause of a changing climate which only exacerbates the natural cycle of fire, drought, flood and plague. If humans ever start to realize that nature is an unstoppable force that always, always wins, working within nature's guidelines will be to our benefit. As I look at all the crisis happening in the world today, we are a long way from ever solving this issue.
10
We Atlantans sure learned a lot about the flammability of power lines/wires after a homeless man put a chair on a shopping cart while trying to smoke crack under the highway. The whole thing went up in flames, ignited the power lines and other supplies that the GA DOT was storing under the overpass and took out a huge highway section with it. Needless to say, there is nothing being stored under the new overpass now. We humans sometimes can learn our lessons. Other times, not so much.
7
This is not rocket science. Too many people living in areas that should not be expected to support homes and human habitation. Periodic fires burn off the vegetation that grows quickly due to winter rains and then dries to a tinder consistency when the dry season comes. It's that simple. Blaming climate change is an easy excuse for irresponsible human behavior. But Californians prefer to take the easy way out, just as New Yorkers who live on barrier islands and in tidal flood zones and who cry bloody murder when hurricanes or nor'easters flood them out.
9
The rains have been increasing, these last two years, and the weathr getting hotter.
This suggest anything to you?
Blame PGE - the deep pocketed company so these rich californians can collect.
Like they say about robbers and banks "they rob banks because that's where the money is."
Ditto with these Californians.
They want to live in an area that is susceptible to fires, ask government through PGE to supply services and then blame PGE.
I used to live in California and owned a home in Ventura - another area prone to fires.
Nothing would have stopped us from living there because we were Californians.
In Malibu, in those days, rich Californians would build houses on cliffs along the famous Pacific Coast Highway. Every wintry rainy seasons, mudslides would bring down houses.
What was the demand ??
The State at tax payers expense fortify these cliffs so these rich Californians could rebuild houses.
The Congress finally caught on about flood insurance scams and put a stop to it.
Ditto here.
These Californians in fire prone areas be required to pay into a fund to pay for all this fire fighting rather than suing the likes of PGE after each fire.
8
Actually, we do pay now. We are in a rural area of ranch land in California and we pay a fire fee annually. The people living around here have cattle ranches and supply beef for your steaks and burgers. Where would you have cattle ranches - in the city? The same goes for vineyards - no more wine? Maybe go back to importing it all from France and Italy?
On another note, my daughter lives in San Francisco and her residential area is populated with homes constructed with wood - kindling for any gas fire outbreak after an earthquake. San Francisco was razed in the 1906 Quake due to fire - not so much the buildings falling down from the shaking. Even 'concrete jungles' are vulnerable to fire so pick your poison.
2
Well what caused the fires was climate change, overuse of land by housing, deforestation, and probably some idiot with a campfire or cigarette that they didn't put out. Take all the time you want to find that out, or chalk it up to a big mystery, or God wreaking havoc in His usual style.
The important point is that all the factors that caused this fire still exist, and are worsening, and so there are worse fires to come. We can lose some wineries, suburban cookie-cutter developments, and a handful of humans though (sorry that's harsh, but it's true). I'm more concerned about wildlife, but I assume we will see some species vanish and many others manage to adapt as they have before.
4
Anyone who has lived in California knows that because of the mild weather there are bums living in the bushes all over the place. I even rousted a pair from my back yard in the middle of Berkeley. And they smoke and cook. It may have been power lines, lightening, arson, or whatever that caused this disaster, but human carelessness and stupidity was my first thought.
9
You give your location as tennessee and your talking about Berkeley, which is it?
3
Most likely cause was downed power lines.
I am also interested in the impact of all of those propane tanks attached to grills. People talked about hearing small explosions which were the sounds of propane tanks exploding.
8
My father championed the beaver. He contended that they kept the land from losing moisture. The fires spread through the roots, too. Each root is like a fuse. I have walked over ground with burning roots, capable of causing fire eruption almost anywhere in a dense forest where, supposedly the fire is extinguished. Why have we decimated the beaver population?
8
Because beavers flood the land on which we build houses?
3
At the same time that the Sonoma County fires were raging, here in Nevada County, in the Sierra Nevada Foothills about 100 miles east of the Sonoma fires, we had several fires that started about the same time as the Sonoma along roads with power lines. We too had high winds. So far the investigations have not found any sign that our fires were deliberately set. I am convinced that both our small fires and the Sonoma fires were caused by power lines and vegetation meeting in the high winds. The power company spends millions a year on removing vegetation but they do not do enough. Profits to stockholders always limit the amount spend on fire prevention.
4
I can think of but one institution that benefits from this assault on the California economy.
2
And? That is? :/
So what institution?
There was intense lightning strikes all over the place, yet the weather was dry. And of course the wind. And no doubt the power lines as well.
2
There were no lightning strikes the night the fires started.
1
Dead, dying and stressed conifers! The pattern in the maps https://www.mapbox.com/labs/norcal-fire-2017/ leaps out!
Drought damaged conifers.
4
Maybe, not the case in the most recent events, but unplanned growth into the wild land interface, combined with 100 years of a Forest Service policy that prevents nature fire cycle is the result of these events, far more than climate change. Climate change is real, but a century of bad forest management policy is as big or bigger a factor right now.
7
I support strong criminal penalties against anyone who starts a fire either purposefully or accidentally, including "teens playing with matches." But why, oh why, in a state as flammable as California, are the power lines not underground? Please don't cite the expense - the destruction of the wine industry sounds pretty expensive to me, although it pales beside loss of lives and homes.
12
Dear Eli,
Sorry, it's the expense. Digging into hillside, running high voltage cable out several miles from urban areas, is a prohibitive expense for anyone starting up a vineyard or other small business. If they had to do that before they started growing the grapes, nobody would be producing wine there, as a profit-making business.
3
Power lines for sure in the Atlas Fire. Time for California to underground all power lines if someone wants to build in "the woods." OK, its expensive, but not as expensive as THIS. We'd definitely be willing to pay to have our power lines put underground.
8
Why doesn't California bury power lines in the ground like other states do? This would solve the whole problem. I was shocked when I moved here and saw power lines above ground everywhere. I thought that an archaic way to get power to people. But even in new construction sites, the power lines are above the ground. It's incomprehensible.
6
I have wondered the same thing. I am always surprised when I travel home to California that there are all these poles everywhere.
Unfortunately under grounding of power lines are every bit as dangerous as the overhead ones, as residents of the Sierra Nevada will attest. Some years ago our telephone companies did just that, only to find out that their risers are vulnerable to lightening strikes, where the strike can travel as much as 7 to 10 miles setting fire to homes or destroying home appliances. The only answer is to change ordinances both in city and rural areas to require clearance of brush and grass throughout all inhabited areas regardless of property lines.
5
There you go.
When an electrical storm threatens, I disconnect all telephones in my home, unplug as many appliances as I can, avoid as many wired or wireless installations or satellite dishes as able.
Unfortunately it has been established that the Detwiler fire in Mariposa County was started by illegal rifle fire on BLM lands, and the culprit is still at large. Guns are an equal threat to matches, cigarettes, etc.
4
It's the power lines, it's the power lines, it's the power lines. We saw it with our own eyes last night. We live about 15 minutes from the fires. Last night, when the winds blew in, the wires glowed red and sparks flew everywhere. Second time this has happened in the past year. All the old power lines around here need serious maintenance. The PGE guy who came out last time told us the equipment on our power line (literally 12 feet from our house) is about 60 years old.
46
I live 10 minutes south of Napa, and the local news here aligns with stories from people who live near where it started - high winds knocked trees into power lines, which popped out of transformers, which caused a transformer fire (or more than one). Once one shower of sparks goes in a hot, dry wind like the one we had that night, with everything so dry after the hot summer we had (3 days over 110 F in June), those trees go up like torches, & then THOSE sparks fly across the landscape, & it's goodnight Irene.
25
In 1964 a fire very similar to the Atlas fire consumed the same terrain. The population in California was about 15 million vs. 35 million today, so you can see why these types of fires have become so deadly. It is not possible to actually fight this type of fire that ravages the coastal range with elevation changes from sea level to 3000 feet, covered with dry brush and trees. Cal Fire and all of the municipal fire agencies have to pick their spots and let much of the fire consume the fuel and try to save as much of the homes, ranches and life as they can. We have many fewer fire fighters since releasing thousands of prisoners that used to fight many of the state's fires, and when we have 22 fires burning across half the state it isn't going to go well. If all of the power lines were actually cleared of nearby trees there would be a lot more than 1.2 million trees trimmed or cut down, trust me. This is a heartbreaking reality we live in here in the Golden State.
5
I vividly remember the 1964 fire. As a child it made an impact on me.
This last week I talked with someone who informed me that some of the firemen and women who responded to the fire commented that they had to spend way too much time trying to rescue people from “up in the hills” as opposed to set up a hard fire line at the base of the hills to “save the city on the flat land”. According to one account a fireman’s grandfather was on the fire lines in 1964. They set up lines and waited for the fire to burn to them. They also had units in “rear reserve” to hit any hot spots behind the lines when the ambers blew past the lines.
If this information is creditable then the powers that be need to look hard and long at all aspect of this disaster. Did we allow building in the hills to “create” a situation where the fire resources had to choose?
Some of this disaster was our own making by narrowed minded thinking on land use and building codes in the hills. Typical regulatory capture of city and county councils by building and real estate interests stopping polices that would have minimized the impact of such a fire.
3
Ummm...What started the fires was the text of the planning codes written up by the land use attorneys and planning professionals who worked for the city and county politicians who had their campaigns funded by the developers and big landowners. This racket is made whole by the local politicians appointing the developers and their sycophants to the various development agency boards.
This is the racket that brought down redevelopment in California.
28
What I can add is this: I was driving south on Calistoga Trail at 4:30 P that Sunday evening, and I saw a plume of smoke on the west side of 29. I wondered what it was and kept driving. Little did I know. Then, after a stopover in Napa, at about 7:00 there were excessively breezy conditions. Driving home at 8:00, the pebbles, rocks, and debris were hitting my car as I tried to leave Napa on 121 to Petaluma. I couldn't believe how windy it was as I held onto the steering wheel for dear life!
32
"Determining the causes of the fires could have huge financial implications in deciding who ultimately pays for the extensive damage"
While anything is possible, the chance of any recovery here is somewhere between slim and none. If an individual caused the fire, the insurance company could collect $1,50 from him after he paid his legal fees. That's why they're making a big deal about power lines. But power lines go down in winds, and there's seldom anything negligent about that. Unless a billionaire stopped in the woods for a smoke, the insurance company is almost sure to pay up.
8
it is of interest to the insurance to pay as late as possible, and protract investigations
Insurance companies pay up first and only then do they seek reimbursement from responsible parties, if they can find them and prove their case. The process is called subrogation.
4
Professor Pine should not discount modern trains which can create sparks from dragging metal parts or malfunctioning wheels. Add catalytic converters and discarded cigarettes to the article's list of power lines, weed eaters, and arson to my list of most seen. But the real culprit was the high winds.
7
California is unique in assigning strict liability to utilities when fires happen because of contact with power lines. Sempra Energy and SoCal Ed have been found liable for fires in the past.
Power utilities like PG&E, SoCal Ed, Sempra, and others are put in tough situations when it comes to managing vegetation around their facilities- cities and homeowners get very upset and often sue when utilities remove trees. But people and municipalities can't have it both ways- if it comes down to a tree vs. safe operation of a power line, you should choose the power line.
19
Have you noticed photos of Santa Rosa where the houses are leveled to the ground with nothing left and yet the trees are not burned to the ground? Also, how could 17 fires start at once? Hope that we get some honest answers.
9
Because in winds like that, fire moves at 45 mph. That's why people died. We've seen it out here before.
4
Hope I don't sound snarky, just adding some info based on my experience.
Fire doesn't move like a "wall of flame" - a lot of the burning in mixed coastal scrub occurs as a creeping low fire, flooding over the landscape. When winds are high though, there are a lot of airborne embers and burning debris. Embers land on roofs, embed themselves in window frames, etc. So, many of the homes lost in Santa Rosa neighborhoods were more likely from embers leap-frogging through the landscape.
We should all remember that many types of trees are actually fire resistant (giant sequoias, redwoods, etc.) whereas chemically-laden man-made structures, are fiercely flammable... a 48" diameter tree can probably withstand some fire, whereas petroleum-soaked shingles cannot...
17
I saw the damage in Santa Rosa first hand. Houses, condos and apartment buildings in entire neighborhoods were reduced to ash with only the chimneys standing. Cars were consumed by flames so intense that the aluminum in the engines liquefied and flowed down the driveways.
But the trees were fine.
I was driving through the hills. The oaks and redwoods were untouched but houses under the trees and all the underbrush were blackened ash.
The flames skipped over certain areas and left them untouched, even jumping six lanes of Highway 101. The fires seemed to hit certain buildings and neighborhoods passing right over others. Some buildings were burned down while the ones all around them were fine.
1
That’s why underground electrical lines are worth the cost.
50
It may be more and more justified as these extreme weather events occur more frequently, but so far, ratepayers here are VERY unwilling to pay for new infrastructure. There are also risks to undergrounded power- it's harder to access when there are problems.
17
That's in part because nobody trust the utilites to spend their money wisely...
The cost is insanely prohibitive to place high voltage transmission lines underground.
2
The Kim threatened to send firestorms across the USA several times this year. Has anyone been tracking known Noko agents? It is easier to start a wildfire during the dry season than to drop a nuclear bomb.
1
In 1997, PG&E was convicted of 739 counts of criminal negligence for failure to trim trees near power lines, resulting in damaging fires. Around the same time, the company had the audacity to hold out its hand for state revenue to pay for trimming trees when they had already been paid, failed to do the work, and simply pocketed the money.
In 2010, PG&E had used the money intended to fund gas line inspections and repairs to fund executive bonuses. One result of that fraud was a devastating gas explosion in San Bruno that killed eight people. The company tried to escape responsibility for that crime by manipulating the Public Utilities Commission to allow it to pick its own judge to hear the case.
There is an active case against the company from another failure to trim trees resulting in deadly fires that destroyed about 500 homes in 2015.
This level of criminal negligence, harm, and recidivism would land any person in prison for life. But as a public utility corporation, PG&E gets away with, if not murder, endless acts of manslaughter, property destruction, fraud, and corruption. It should come as no surprise if the company's negligence contributed to the firestorm disasters being investigated today.
71
The myth of Prometheus has a very real basis: humans tend to start fires (intentionally or unintentionally) everywhere all the time. If the Sonoma fire had not been started at A, it surely would have been started at B, C, or D. The real culprit is not ignition but fuel. With this much dry fuel laying around, a major fire was bound to happen, and how it was ignited is irrelevant. We need to focus on weather patterns (which generated flashy fuels this Spring), drought (which turned them into tinder), and the construction of communities in naturally fire-prone ecosystems. It would also be worth noting the effect of climate change which indirectly causes weather!
14
We need to focus on the deforestation that allows wildfires to be blown into areas that might have otherwise been protected.
5
(sigh) That's not how it works in the West, Matty. It's not like Boston; it doesn't rain a drop from April to October or November here.
3
The entire non-desert part of California is a naturally fire-prone ecosystem and 35 million people live here (most in that part)...ample dry fuel and rural neighborhood planning with intermixed agricultural use is the norm...
Dear writers,
Have you considered: heavy rains over the winter stimulated a rush of vegetative growth during the spring, followed by the normal summer heat and drought. I don't know it's true in this case but I've seen this pattern before.
16
That is absolutely part of the issue here. After years of punishing drought that weakened trees, we got a very heavy rainy season, which spurred lots of new growth, which added to the stress on the trees.
12
Absolutely.
5 years of drought followed by an intense rainy season.
Sleuths can begin with a search of the Australian literature where this type of fire is an annual occurrence. 1. frequent spot fires kms ahead of the fire front from "floaters" (bark) leading to; 2. False reports of "children" setting fires; 3. persistent evidence of fires started by members of volunteer fire brigades; fires initiated by 4. lighting strikes in extreme weather; and the consistent one: 5. fires from powerlines, esp. arcing high voltage lines. Lots of literature and some recommended Fire Codes for roofing materials and guttering design.
5
Thank you. Going through these comments it seems you are the first person to mention the lightning strikes. They were amazing and it was not from rain.
We were staying on that hill across the road from Bennett (Petrified Forest Road) and evacuated at 11 pm. There was a fire helicopter in the air at around 7 pm that evening, when it was still light. I have not heard any of the news reports mention that. There must be a record of when that helicopter was deployed,
11
Utilities used to employ large #'s of linemen; as many as they might need on their worst day. All the time linemen weren't performing repairs they were out trimming trees. Today, not so much. Utilities scrape by on the bare minimum # of linemen and call in helpers from adjacent utilities when natural disasters occur. You've seen pictures of the lines of utility trucks headed to Florida, Texas, etc. Tree trimming is largely outsourced, and is treated as an expense against profits; thus, minimized. The end result is nation where there are a WHOLE LOT MORE tree limbs in the vicinity of powerlines than there were 30 years ago. Thank the corporations and the stockholders; once again privatizing the profits and distributing the expenses.
72
The power lines should be put underground. PG&E says it's too expensive, yet they pay about $200 million per year inspecting the power lines. They also paid to remove 236,000 "dead or dying" trees and "prune or remove" 1.2 million trees in 2016. They have also paid millions of dollars to settle lawsuits from people who lost their homes in two different wildfires started by trees interfering with power lines. Now they are paying with their plummeting stock price.
Undergrounding power lines is a one-time expense, unlike the annual maintenance required for power lines above ground. Europeans have undergrounded their power lines. Why can't we? Because American business is penny wise and pound foolish with only short-term profit objectives in mind. Public safety is of no interest to American business and there is little government regulation to compensate for that viewpoint.
100
I agree, privatization of a public good only leads to bad outcomes. Adding the need to make a profit to running whatever it is tends to prioritize profit over function.
10
I agree with your sentiment. However, Europe also has cities with much, much higher density than ours. If you wanted to force PG&E to underground all their lines, it would, at the estimated minimum of $300,000 per mile, start at $36 BILLION dollars to get that done. That's the starting point. It might just be easier to start adopting some sane state and local planning codes that, for example, force people who want to build homes in the woods to pay to have their power connections buried. As a fellow PG&E ratepayer, I hope you can see the reasoning behind that.
12
PG&E is the only entity with the wherewithal to pick up the tab (and then pass it along to ratepayers). Accordingly lots of people (and insurance companies) have a big interest in pinning the blame on them. As I understand it lawsuits have already been filled without any investigation.
The $1B damage estimate seems extremely low given the extent of damage. If 7000 structures were damaged at, say, an average of $300K per structure (very low for real estate around here) the total is more than twice as much.
14
The California Public Utility Commission ultimately decides what costs get passed to ratepayers.
4
Most say PG&E in Sonoma but for those of us who's homes have been destroyed most of us aren't focusing on this. We're trying to get help, find a place to stay, have food and know we will have a place to go to. I wish just because there is now good containment to the fire that more focus will be on helping us who are still going through the stages of trauma which were going through and will go through for a long time. The flames may be out but focus on us who need homes, need love and support and please post places that offer this for us. My home is standing although damaged. I don't care about who's fault it is right now. I want to help my county. Making a man article about this is like performing an autopsy on someone who isn't dead yet. Sonoma Strong~
And for all of the people who think Santa Rosa backs up to wild old redwood growth, maybe time to pull out a map. Global warming is here to stay.
36
Liz - All of Northern California feels horrible for all of our wine country neighbors. Our equestrian center has been hosting over 100 horses from Napa/Sonoma area that had to be evacuated. It's heartbreaking to see entire subdivisions burnt to the ground and so many friends suffering.
It must be very difficult to have everyone dissecting the causes and publishing the grim statistics of over 7000 structures, not thinking about the lives affected by the losses and the lost friends and family members that didn't have a chance.
Just to let you know, we cry for all of you and wish we could do more to ease the suffering and heartache.
Hugs from Sloughhouse
10
Liz - most people think California is just Los Angeles. I'm really sorry for your loss.
Maybe PGE needs to hike electricity rates to three times what they were and cut down 5 times more trees. But still, climate change will make the Diablo winds stronger and some tree somewhere will down a power line. Sorry, the attraction of california living is living amongst the green trees which balance out the brown grass. No trees, no charm. But they are flammable. Maybe if everyone lives with a solar panel on their roof and LED lighting, we can get rid of power lines thru forests....
14
Virtually all fires in California start in dry grass and native chaparral because they ignite much more easily than trees. Trees are rarely engaged in fires unless it is a wind driven fire, as many fires in California are.
In a wind driven fire, everything will burn. The houses usually ignite before the trees do because they are essentially dry boxes of oxygen, the essential ingredient for fires. The trees are still alive and therefore contain more moisture than the dry grass.
An inflammable landscape in California is a parking lot. That's why the focus of fire safety in California is creating defensible space and using building materials that are less likely to ignite.
Since the intensity and frequency of wildfires is caused by climate change, the last thing we should do is needlessly destroy trees. Deforestation is the second greatest contributor to the greenhouse gases causing climate change.
30
Tree roots and fungi work together to keep the soil alive and retain moisture necessary for other plants to thrive. Trees also work as pulmonary pumps, drawing water from deep underground and releasing the moisture into the air. When forests are removed in hot and dry climates, desertification follows. California is already struggling with a changing climate in which long and extreme droughts like the one that just ended will be more common. Removing the trees would accelerate and worsen that risk.
19
Well said. 5 million native oaks trees were killed by Sudden Oak Death from 1995 to 2016. Now we are told by those who survey the spread of SOD that the pathogen causing SOD spread significantly in 2017 because of the extreme rain that we had last winter. The pathogen is spread by rain and wind. SOD is now found in many urban areas in California. It is no longer found just in wildlands.
We lost 102 million native conifers during the 5-year drought that ended in 2017.
Killing more trees is NOT the answer!
6
I do not envy these investigators. What a terrible, depressing and heart wrenching line of work. May they discover the cause(s) if for no other reason than to offer answers and suggestions in how to prevent or diminish future fires, destruction and/or loss of life.
15
So high winds which are an act of nature make a company guilty? Now if they actually did something to start the fire that might be something. This is nothing.
4
What would make the utility company liable is negligent and/or reckless conduct with respect to the maintenance of their power lines, given that high, high winds naturally (and now more than ever with climate change) are apt to occur. Saying "this is nothing" doesn't make it so.
15
California State law requires that the power poles be able to withstand winds of much greater velocity than those that preceded the wildfire. PG&E IS responsible if their power poles did not meet legal standards.
11
There is also the issue of the trimming of vegetation. And whether PG&E did enough to cut down trees and cut back everything possible around their lines. This is a double-edged sword out here: the utility companies need to get in and clear out what gets in the way, while their customers in more rural areas are regularly anguished and offended over the "loss" of beautiful trees. Until all power lines are underground - don't hold your breath on this due to cost and the amount of work and difficulty in gaining access for repairs - this will be an issue.
4
What caused the fire, and the extent of its destructiveness, is too many people living in the wrong place. We keep building infrastructure and homes in places that will burn sooner or later, and the more people who live there the more likely that a fire will start and will be caused by people. Let's stop pretending that this a mystery with specific villains, as opposed to one more small chapter in the history of humans believing we are immune from the environment.
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I agree.
"Stephen J. Pyne... said wind and electricity were an increasingly alarming combination in places where urban and wild lands bump up together, and it was one, he said, that had no cheap or easy fix." Of course there is an easy fix. Stop building homes in the "wild lands".
Since a whole bunch of those houses were built in towns, not in the woods, you are not correct.
22
Fires don't only occur in the woods. Brush can also burn and convey the fire. Put a town in the path of historical fires, and it will burn.
3