I was falsely accused of making a turn on a red light by a NYC cop who was under pressure to write a quota of tickets daily. I went to court because I was innocent. The case was called, but the cop showed up late. The judge admonished her and told her she was always unprepared for her appearances in court It was clear the judge didn't believe the cop, and she dismissed the case without hearing anything whatsoever. I reported the cops actions to the proper police internal division, which didn't do anything to her. It makes me sick.
6
For those police who are upset by Black Lives Matter: it's cops like this who you should be angry at. This is the sort of malfeasance that sparks protest.
7
So, is the NYTs ready to get off the 'white cops are racist' and admit that all cops have too much power over the people they 'protect' and that black and white and hispanic and ... all cops need to stop being incentivized to give out tickets and arrest people? Officers that build trust and protect the community while earning the respect of law abiding citizens - those are the ones that should be promoted.
PS. Normally, it would say 'white detective lies to imprison minorities' but today no mention of the officer's race? No, I'm not a racist, but I am insulted by the reporting of the NYTs over the last 8 years as they try to create the impression that blacks are targeted, blacks are killed, and it's white officers and white men in general that are evil racists.
4
Many people lie at some time or another, but when Police Officers lie people go to jail. I don't know if it's rampet but I believe it's more that the Public wants to believe.
3
I am originally from Brooklyn and Manhattan. My wife was a police officer in Baltimore for 20 years. One of the reasons she retired was the self interest younger officers and rookies were showing and the lack of "you watch my back, I'll watch yours" attitude. This self interest included shading the truth which may have been perjury at its worst. That said, the NYPD is still the greatest law enforcement agency in the world and I sincerely hope any pending investigations don't end up further alienating the public. They are here to protect us and few people know how demanding being on the job is.
Robert B Weltzien MD PhD
In North Carolina the ACLU has a free App called NC Justice that allows one to video police interaction with you or others.
A copy of the video goes directly to the ACLU so even if the cop confiscates your phone or tells you to delete the video the ACLU has it.
I think a similar App is available in a number of other states.
This is a work around for jurisdictions that don’t have uniform mounted video cams on cops and in the case of a cop “forgetting” to turn on his uniform cam.
In NC it’s also a solution to the legislature’s recent law that cop made videos can’t be released to the press absent a court order.
7
NYPD detectives and officers lie? How about some new news?
6
When I was doing research in the early Nineties for a book about New York detectives, I discovered that lying under oath, not a practice of every officer, but of many, was called "testilying."
1
the police? lying? say it isn't so! shocker!
5
An inescapable fact is that conditions, behaviors, actions, and inactions were what they were because those in authority wanted them that way, tolerated their being that way, or didn’t know that they were that way. This applies from the work location to the top governance and regulatory oversight.
Observation: Situational awareness is a prerequisite for acting accountably.
Quotation: “What is permitted is promoted.”- Unknown (for now)
Observation: This has yet to be addressed for Fukushima.
Quotation: “Truth? You can’t handle the truth!”-The character Colonel Jessup in the movie “A Few Good Men .”
Observation: Unless the harmful behaviors and/or inactions of those in authority are corrected those behaviors and/or inactions are left to become involved in the causation of future harm.
Quotation: “A fish rots from the head back.”-Old Russian proverb
Observation: Leadership by example is a chilling effect when the leaders do not report the nonconformities that their subordinates know that they know about.
Quotation: “Leaders create a chilling effect by treating the devil’s advocates as if they are devils.”-Bill Corcoran
Quotation: “…the people in a big system like NASA know what has to be done—without being told.” –Richard P. Feynman, Presidential Commission on Challenger
Observation: “See no evil; hear no evil; speak no evil” appears to be a high level mantra protected at all costs.
1
Thankfully we are addressing the problem; but we all know that police are not the only liars!
Testilying... it's all part of the cop culture.
Blowing through traffic lights, double parking to pick up lunch, illegal turns?
When you wear blue, nobody tickets you.
Special treatment for relatives?
"Sorry I was doing 80 in a school zone officer. Here's my license and the business card of my cop uncle."
Planting drugs, fabricating confessions?
"It's the only way to keep you safe! I don't see YOU volunteering to do the job!"
I lost my illusions about the honesty of cops a long time ago.
But even so, the advent of 24/7 video has genuinely shocked me... the number of police complicit in the murder of civilians, time after time after time, is just appalling.
How do human beings go so wrong?
What happened to their morality?
And that's just the big cases. We rarely hear about drugs being planted, yet we all know...
My wife is a non-American. She used to be surprised by my attitude with cops.
"Yes sir," "No sir!"
But now after a few years of seeing cop videos she understands why a wealthy looking white guy who happens to be a lawyer is wary of cops.
She doesn't understand why Americans allow the police to treat them this way. "In my country, we would never let the police treat us this way."
Land of the free, baby.
Wanna buy a gun?
5
The police are the largest, and most dangerous criminal gang in the world...stay far away from them if at all possible.
4
So here's the other issue, the idea that there are good cops and bad cops. So if these are the bad cops, then the dozens and dozens of cops that knew or suspected these two were testi-lying are the good cops? If we are to take for granted that all cops know other cops that have lied, abused, and at the least have supported their peers false reports, then are there any good cops at all?
8
Observation: Individuals and organizations that routinely engage in incompetent or wrongful activity can be caught by sting operations.
Information: A sting operation is a situation in which authorities have deliberately provided an opportunity for specific wrongdoing in order to catch perpetrators of that wrongdoing , e.g., deploying a stealable vehicle that has a concealed position monitoring and transmitting device installed. These are sometimes given informal names such as “Honey Pots”, “Honey Traps”, “Bait Cars”, or the like.
Observation: Gullibly trusting nonconforming individuals and organizations are vulnerable to sting operations, spiking operations, and entrapments. (Sting operations and spiking operations are generally legal and ethical, but entrapments are not.)
Observation: In March 2017 Las Vegas Metropolitan Police used a type of sting operation in an attempt to catch persons who attack homeless persons. It depended upon the trust of the attacker.
Observation: Every professional should be mindfully wary of the possibility that the next observable actionable condition, behavior, action, or inaction may be part of a sting operation, a spiking operation, and/or an entrapment? Tempting bait includes opportunities for saving time, for saving money, for saving effort, for saving embarrassment, for keeping the operation on line, for making one’s numbers, for staying off the regulatory radar, and the like.
Some people might say that these detectives are a gift.
1
22 years in NYPD. Busy with many arrests for the first nine years. Never lied or exaggerated the facts of a case in court. Why? You make an arrest you go with your facts what you saw, what was said.. It's up to a Judge or Jury not you. What people really do not understand in that during the 60's and 70's there were a lot of bad people in mostly poor black and hispanic areas doing bad things to mostly black and hispanic people. That's what police work is mostly about going after the bad guys who are mostly poor anyway. Any way you look at it back then or now that is mostly the situation. The interesting thing is if there is less intensive police to prevent crime will the crime rate go up? There are a lot of factors involved. Let's see what happens. Remember testify only to what you heard and saw it's that easy.
3
One of the cops who killed Amadeou Diallo has been promoted to sergeant. Juxtaposed, of what significance is perjury???
5
Where are the assault charges and abuse of authority in the case of the man they hit with their car? Why should that man who was falsely accused by them have to settle for a misdemeanor gun charge...they had no probably cause to search his apartment? Somehow this was about to go public and the district attorneys are just covering their butts. They were not unaware of the lying. They openly solicit lying. There are no good cops because they all cover for the guys like this.
1
Cops who out right testilie. Few in my experience but those few who do cause lots of damage and stain the majority.
1
All police departments. The police cannot be trusted.
3
I always want to believe the police, but their constant refusal to follow simple rules and standards prevent this. I’ve met so many cops who simply assume they are right only because they are cops. I line near a precinct, and it’s an orgy of illegal parking. By our fire hydrants. On busy avenues. Double and triple parked ... all illegally. If the police don’t feel they have to follow all the laws us little folks have to abide by, why wouldn’t they lie?
7
This is a common occurrence.
Why would New York's Finest make stuff up when they have as their role model a New Yorker who is a law and order enthusiast, a big-time supporter of police forces, and happens to occupy the highest office in the land? Oh... wait.
5
never been to NY but have been to traffic court and some but not all police feel that they are not bound by the same lawa they hold everyone else to, Particularly lying under oath.
clearly he is not afraid to lie at all, every conviction obtained because of his testimony should be re-opened.
2
The story almost implies that the NYPD is unique or at least unusual in having the problem of officers who commit perjury. Telling the truth is a persistent problem in all police departments everywhere. And in my legal systems, prosecutors and judges knowingly and willingly accept perjury to secure convictions of "bad guys" and "troublemakers" whom they believe need to be taught a lesson.
2
I don't see that implication at all. It's a local article in a New York newspaper, so it's about the New York City Police Department.
I do wonder, however, whether "everywhere" in the second sentence means "everywhere in the U.S." or "everywhere in the world". That's not a rhetorical question; I've read plenty about police misconduct all over this country and very little about it in civilized nations. Is that because things are better there, or is it just (as in the case of this article) a matter of coverage?
1
You would imagine that this kind of thing begins when frustrated police officers see one bad guy after another lie and beat the rap. After awhile they might begin to believe that they need to fight fire with fire, stretching the truth or outright falsifying to keep the suspects behind bars.
But how many grey areas were breached, and how many innocent people started getting caught-up in this? At some point they stopped being the good guys, and should remain off of the street, if not off of the force.
This probably occurs more often then people imagine. Human nature in a stressful, almost impossible job.
8
Cops lie and invent evidence. Prosecutors are just another arm of the Police Department and suppress evidence of innocence. Prosecutors blackmail suspects with plea deals even though they may be innocent. Judges almost always side with the authorities and they know what's going on and fail to stop it.
Cops are the best liars because everyone always believes them.
All cops should always be in uniform, not only for proper identification even among themselves, but because the uniform would remind them to act like cops, not plainclothes secret police thugs.
2
Our policing system is broken. The criminal justice system is broken. Politics is broken. The presidency and America's standing in the world are broken, perhaps irreparably so. What can we point to in America that works? The tech world, where a few people get obscenely rich, "disrupters" create a gig economy that creates no decent well-paying jobs, and every possible fact about our lives is collected and maintained in a way no one has any idea how to keep secure? Education, where politicians disdain the idea of "government" schools and privatization and profit seem to be the driving forces? Health care? Finance? Nothing works. I'd like to end with a pithy, insightful thought, but all I can think to say is that we're doomed. Completely, absolutely, totally, 100 per cent, doomed.
1
The superlative, superhuman performance reviews had to seem storybook to at least some of the people within the force who passed them around and read them. If so, that suggests that between the lines there was winking going on. That's at least as troubling as the actual lying.
1
The main reason I would never vote for the death penalty is not because I think no one should be executed.
Some people do deserve to die.
The main reason I would never vote for the death penalty is because I know that many detectives..and MANY PROSECUTORS often lie and commit crimes in their so-called pursuit of justice.
And when someone from law enforcement lies, there is almost never any legal recourse against these criminals wearing badges.
4
I worked in the criminal justice system for 30 years. Cops lied. Judges lied. Prosecutors lied. Public defenders lied. It was just a huge lie fest. I got out before my soul was completely sullied. But lying is the only way to survive. It gets the case over quicker. The work load is unbelievable. But the key is: the VAST majority of defendants lie. Vast majority. So don’t get all sanctimonious on behalf of the poor defendants. Lying is simply the human condition.
12
Of course the defendants lie, they are facing prison. The rest of your list has no excuse at all. The system has no value if anyone but a defendant is lying.
6
The defendant is the only one who can be allowed (expected/presumed/assumed) to lie. Common sense. They're trying to save themselves from their fate.
2
30 years is a long time. If you say lying is the human condition, you didn't get out in time. I'm sorry for your soul. I'll still cling to the belief that we have an obligation to insist on truthfulness, from the oval office on down.
3
I do believe that cops lie on the stand about as much as the defendant or bystander witnesses. I also believe that this is completely unacceptable. Cops testimony is not weighted the same as other people's. Their testimony is viewed almost as fact, and so the consequences of lying must be harsher than for any normal citizen. They are not just comitting perjury, they are betraying their oath and the trust placed in them by their community. At the very least, their career should end at the first intentional lie.
5
Perhaps this is a case of "you get what you pay for." A fair and universally respected criminal justice system is the bedrock of a civil, functioning society. And yet we Americans put so few of our tax dollars into this process of maintaining such a system. (This is excluding the costs of incarceration.) If our criminal justice system had the wherewithal and legislative support to hold perjurers, especially those in law enforcement accountable, we would see change. As a nation, how we spend our tax dollars expresses our values.
4
Cops should lie LESS than the general public. They uphold the law. In fact, cops should face greater charges when caught, because the public entrusted them with the power of the gun. And criminals, facing bent cops, will be less inclined to respect law enforcement and society. The end does not justify the means when it comes to justice. Justice is a process.
Our thin blue line cannot be gray.
2
Like Harvey Weinstein's appalling serial sexual abuse, police lying under oath is rampant and well-known by those in power, by the cognoscenti, and by the many relatively powerless victims, but NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT.
Police do it because it furthers the goals by which they themselves are measured (arrests, charges, convictions), and because they know they will face little-to-absolutely-zero scrutiny or sanction.
This widespread practice makes a mockery out of democracy, due process, and equal protection. But it is how the laws are enforced, and how certain people are kept in check.
Will we do something about it?
3
If you lie to a police officer you are breaking the law. If the officer lies to you they are not breaking the law. They have an enormous amount of experience lying. They get so practiced at the skill, the line blurs for when to stop. This is true for anyone who lies regularly, not just police officers.
1
Maybe police would lie less if their lies to citizens under interrogation were not sanctioned by the courts. Maybe they would lie less if they were punished for procuring lieing witnesses, especially jailhouse snitches. It’s too much to expect them to suddenly become truthful when communicating with prosecutors or testifying.
1
I respect police and believe that the vast majority are good people. That said, no one can get away with lying like a cop. I've experienced it firsthand, on the street and listening to testimony in court. They are given absolute credibility; otherwise everyone gets off the hook. Lying is a problem hardly confined to the NYPD, or to police in general. We have a president who averages five a day, and that's based only on his public statements.
5
When I was young I was accused of a crime which I knew I did not commit. There is nothing as frightening as being in a courtroom and having a law enforcement blatantly lie. I was facing possibly thirty years of jail time. Lucky for me the jury acquitted me but my entire life I have had feelings of not trusting police.
Sure the majority of police are honest but its the minority of the bad ones that can cause good people who are not guilty to suffer unjustly.
5
Cops lie. Just like everyone else. The big difference is that the justice system presumes that they do not. A cop’s testimony is weighted more heavily than a civilian ‘s. The police also have more opportunities to perjure themselves because they are witnesses in court more than anyone else. Their lies put people in prison. Their lies rob us all of our freedom.
Too many cops.
Too many criminalized behaviors.
Too many lost lives.
17
Correct, Tom. It is legal for the police to lie to citizens but not the other way around!
Had an opportunity to see a NYPD cop lying in traffic court. I asked him whether he is aware that what he said is under oath and he did not have an answer. Not sure he understood that it is hard to win any kind of respect that way, but it didn't seem he cared much.
32
"Testilying"
Those living in such areas might consider wearing body cameras themselves (assuming they won't be confiscated) to record not only what happens to them but also to people they witness. The same goes for cars: Most Moscow drivers have dashcams installed, because of phony accident tricksters; this would have helped withathe bad traffic ticket.
9
It sadly seems that the efficacy of body cameras in reducing police misconduct and brutality is mixed at best. The real answer involves changing the policing culture and repercussions for abuses of power—a tall, tall task.
1
Not just in New York. Here's a rule for you rubes: When a cop testifies, she/he lies.
29
When the cops jumped the fence and searched OJ's house without a warrant, after they found his wife dead, they said they were going there to "warn him" that he might be a target ( of the same drug gangs OJ later blamed perhaps?). The defense objected but Judge Ito allowed the evidence they found to be admitted.
The truly surprising thing about police perjury is people are surprised by it.
48
Ten years ago I was standing at a bus stop in Miami and happened to glance at the trash barrel beside me. In small letters someone had scrawled "Cops Lie".
Truer words were never penned. It's not just New York cops - all cops lie. They are trained to lie and they support each other's lies. They lie in court and they lie while talking to you.
Cops lie.
52
I'm SHOCKED! Shocked to discover there's gambling going on in here!
Can we please start talking about overturning prosecutors immunity from railroading "victims" who sometimes go to prison for years (or life) for crimes they didn't commit. Once prosecutors know they will FINALLY be held accountable for withholding evidence or going forward with cases that are clearly undermined by the facts or questionable testimony from law enforcement, the sanctity and integrity of our criminal justice system will suddenly improve.
BTW, the public typically doesn't pay attention to this stuff -- until it happens to them. Can we be smart enough as a city and a nation to recognize that this is a rampant problem and that until prosecutors and law enforcement personnel are truly held accountable, nothing will change! Don't wait until it happens to YOU!
54
Since both Detective Desormeau AND his partner are charged, why not include a photo of the partner? Both men are implicated equally.
7
It's a nit, but in the very last paragraph we learn by her lawyer's quote referring to Detective Neve as "she" that the indicted partner is a woman.
Not to disagree with your point, but in the last paragraph of the article, Det. Sasha Neve is referred to as she/her.
Detective David Terrell's testimony needs to be investigated.
3
The worst part is that some people, who probably are guilty, will ge off because of the lying criminal who wears a badge.
Your worst nightmare is not the sociopath with a gun. It's a sociopath with a badge.
88
These cops are cynically (and criminally) riffing several stories above a deep issue that cops are not being educated to identify, much less resist: cognitive bias. When a trainee cop is on the street, and can't recognize in him or herself a general tendency to see illegality in ordinary behavior, invalid arrests are going to be the result. Once released from training, in under-trained cops fossilize their habit of not questioning what they see and how they react to it. They become forever paranoid and aggressive in their perception and treatment of the public.
6
"Stop and frisk","Zero tolerance" these are the horrifying ideas that were implemented that replaced the good old fashioned beat cop. You cannot expect cops to produce reductions in criminal activity like McDonald's produces cheeseburgers. The understanding and trust that would naturally occur when a police officer walks a beat and gets to know a community evaporates when the dynamic becomes you need to arrest an arbitrary number of people a day. When you have policies like this those who are poor and Black are low hanging fruit and officers who join the force with even the bast of intentions come to view themselves as cogs in a criminal justice arrest mill. I hope that Officer Desormeau gets the justice his awful deeds have obviously earned for him.The reality is current criminal justice and policing practices forced him to interact with this community in a hostile and corrupt manner in order to keep his job.
8
Generally people don't consistently get away with lying unless the folks being lied to are inclined or wanting to hear the lie
The criminal justice system is broken. The age of mass incarceration and plea bargains rather than trials have corrupted the process
Punishing this police officer is a must. But leaving it at that would be a disgrace.
22
Thank you for this reporting. How many more individuals like this are there in police departments across the country? How many lives have been ruined by them? One could be forgiven for believing that law enforcement organizations across the country are brimming with liars and bigots with no accountability to anyone.
23
I did a good bit of pro bono criminal defense work in New Orleans in the 20 plus years I practiced law there.
If you want to see cop perjury as an art form go there. The really disgusting thing is that the prosecutors and judges are in on it too.
For a taste of what I'm talking about Google Harry Connick, the rogue DA of Orleans Parish for many years. He's gone now but nothing has changed.
Don't be poor and/or black in New Orleans and get involved in the criminal injustice system there, it's a rigged game.
18
My favorite is the basketball coach with no criminal record. Outside of his criminal record. Also reluctantly accepted two illegal guns from a relative. You may want to find better examples of "innocent" people.
2
Twenty yrs ago a women went to prison being convicted of arranging the murder of her child. But it took 20 yrs for the Appeals Court to throw it out because the cop lied. He claimed she confessed but with no audio or video. The Court said he lied as he was known to lie, like telling the court a defender told him he committed the crime. The only problem was the defender was unconscious from the time the paramedics got there and was unable to talk to anyone. Police knew he was lying. The prosecutor was determined to put the woman back on death row (the men doing the killing always refused to implicate her) and told the court he would compel, the cop to testify and perjury himself, he didn't care. Court finally to the prosecutor to go to hell. She spent 20th yrs on death row for a crime she didn't commit all because the cop wanted to feather his hat. There is a reason some people end up dead.
20
when I was a little girl, if someone lied, you said he lies like a rug. In Phoenix, AZ now, we no longer say that. We say he lies like a cop under oath. How
terribly sad, but very very true.
26
I read this book already.
It was called "The Force"
1
This is not a problem in NYPD. This is a problem across the country. The police persons need to be held accountable to impeccable standards when they arrest someone and bring them to court. No statement by a police person should be taken as a matter of fact because they LIE.
Prosecutors are also not immune from this disease of lying. They lie in front of the judges and lie at trial.
There has to be ONLY and ONLY one objective: FINDING THE TRUTH. However, the objective seems to be get as many arrests by any means and as many convictions by any means by police and prosecutors respectively. This has to END. Furthermore, in the Federal judicial system there seems to be another monkey's wrench in the system which, I believe, makes the entire system corrupt. It is this organization called UNICOR - an entity that employs federal prisoners to create objects of value using slave labor then sells it back to US Government at comparable retail prices and its profits are invested into the retirement for federal judges, prosecutors, etc. It is such a racket - legalized slavery. If the prisoners create objects of value then its profits must be used to benefit the prisoners.
14
In every trial, all officials who offer testimony should be liable for the same grade of punishment. If the police, investigators or DA is found to have lied, they should be sentenced at the end of the proceedings along with any guilty defendants.
Lying by officials is endemic and largely unpunished. Maybe sometimes somone loses a job, but in practice there is little risk to creating the paperwork to put someone away.
Juries should be empowered to consider the whole truth of a case, and judge bad actors as guilty for their role.
11
Bodycam and cellphone video is increasingly contradicting police testimony. I suggest that cops had better clean up their act, and that of their co-workers, fast. No longer is police testimony considered the "gold standard" in courtrooms. Jurors from the OJ Simpson trial onward have had to decide who is lying more, the defendant, witnesses, or weasel detectives like Mark Furman. Honest, tax paying, law-abiding citizens are beginning to lose their respect for, and trust of police due to lying, abuse and murder of minorities and the generally failed war on drugs. Police simply cannot afford to lose any more of the goodwill of the general public. Tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, Officers.
24
Every case that these so-called detectives testified in should be dismissed. Every last one. Whoever was imprisoned as a result of their testimony should be released and compensated. A few guilty go free? Better that than one innocent lose their job, home, and years of their lives--not to mention all the suffering this causes to their families.
15
in court police testimony is almost treated like "god's word", by the jury and judge. Then, if the verdict is on appeal, the appeals courts also treat a cop's testimony with great respect. Even the U.S. Supreme Court. Just read the court's ruling over the years regarding police actions. Almost always they defer to the police. Just disgusting. You gotta hand it to the right wing law and order wing of the Supreme Court. A lying cop's words is holier than that of an innocent and honest ordinary U.S. citizen.
16
Lawrence Byrne, the department’s top legal official . . . .[said]
“I don’t believe — although nobody has done an empirical study — that the incidence of perjury among police officers is any higher or lower than the incidence of perjury among other categories of witnesses, which includes civilian witnesses, complainants, expert witnesses.”
And presumably includes people accused of criminal acts. Wow. Is that the incredibly low bar set for police ethics? "You can't lie more than anybody else in court."
Useful information for someone sitting on a jury.
18
What ??? Cops lie ??...next you'll tell me water is wet and fire is hot...one of their favorites, in New Jersey,during traffic stops, is to proclaim "I smell burning marijuana"".... this allows them to shake down drivers and passengers with unwarranted roadside searches ..."with liberty and justice for all who can afford it"....
24
Never trust a cop. Never.
15
To understand detective credibility issues in their proper context, it is important to understand the relationship between detectives and prosecutors and defense attorneys. Detectives bring their cases to the D.A. and most want to see them prosecuted because they almost always believe a crime was committed, they want their work recognized, and the more cases they make, the better it is for them. The prosecutor, on the other hand, wants winning cases and is most concerned with whether there is sufficient evidence to convince a jury. They often send detectives back to do more work. Both sides know how this works, and detectives are tempted to make their cases sound better than they are, not usually because their perjurers, but because the need to prove the case in court is not what they're focused on.
For those who have noted that the interests of the accused are not front and center in this process, go to the head of the class. But remember, the accused gets an attorney, who is supposed to be totally dedicated to his client. The defense attorney should do his own investigation. And if his client is falsely charged, his failure to figure that out is the client's death-knell.
We have an adversary criminal justice system where different people have different roles. Prosecutors and defense attorneys are supposed to be the check on lying cops. The problem isn't just that cops lie, it's also that the lawyers in charge are too easily hoodwinked.
15
The problem is that the vast majority of people (particularly of color, average or poor income) do not have a great or even average atty to "do his own investigation" for them. They are appointed overworked indifferent attorneys who push them through the system, encourage them to have bench trials or accept plea deals that aren't necessarily advantageous. The vast inequality of our society in terms of income, education, access to resources is on full display in the courts of this country.
5
"...the accused gets an attorney, who is supposed to be totally dedicated to his client. The defense attorney should do his own investigation." Michjas, what planet are you living on? The accused, if indigent, gets a state-appointed attorney who met him five minutes before they go into the courtroom. That defense attorney has about 100 such cases and no time to dedicate--except to suggest a plea bargain. The state pays the attorney peanuts and provides no money for an investigation. I know. My sister was a legal aid attorney and was disgusted with the whole business.
8
Prosecutors are suppossed to be a check on lying cops, but they are not. I am a defense attorney in Manhattan. I can't even tell you how many times I have heard this from an ADA, "You expect me to believe that an officer is lying"?
Most ADAs especially the new ones, take cops words as the absolute truth.
Sadly, defense counsel does NOT have the same access to information as the prosecutors. They have way more resources and they do not share information. In Manhattan, discovery (i.e. the evidence that the state has) is not turned over until THE DAY OF TRIAL. Attempts to push for legislative reform have fallen short and have not been supported state wide by prosecutors. The "hoodwinking" is not an accident - the system is designed to have defendants at a disadvantage.
6
I have a friend who is a NYC Detective. Any time I bring up these types of cases all she ever says is "you don't understand". What's there to understand? She says that I'm a civilian and I don't know the dark world of crime. I think it's just trying to defend a culture of not holding officers accountable when they do wrong things.
27
They're not working for us. They're working for the system.
1
Explain to me again why we should take the word of the arresting officer over that of the defendant?
7
Corrupt mayor begets corrupt cops.
So before the current mayor, all cops were honest?
Oh yes! There was Rudy "the Honest" Giuliani.
Mayors actually couldn't control corruption is they wanted to.
And since cops have the advantage, it's dangerous to try to reign them in.
1
This makes me laugh. Bad cops didn't just show up w/ the current mayor.
Points though for using the word beget.
1
Are lying LEOs who send innocent people to prison part of the "law and order" that Trump and Sessions et al. so fervently champion?
6
Black lives matter.
6
“I don’t believe — although nobody has done an empirical study — that the incidence of perjury among police officers is any higher or lower than the incidence of perjury among other categories of witnesses, which includes civilian witnesses, complainants, expert witnesses.”
For the love of God, the new standard of integrity includes matching the police against the general population as well as people paid to have an opinion, in the right direction? A very low bar that demonstrates just how much overhaul is needed.
19
I have been a criminal defense lawyer for 35 years. When I was young, naive, and new to the profession, I was shocked by the amount of police perjury that I witnessed. Now, sadly, I's used to it. I want to make a couple of observations in response to some of the comments already posted:
Yes, I think that police commit perjury at a rate that is significantly higher than other categories of witness -- with the exception of the defendants' girlfriends/wives. I don't think they are less honest as a group than other groups of people. The problem is that they define themselves as the "good guys", and they tend to view entire swaths of society as bad guys. That combination of facts allows them to rationalize their lies as advancing a greater societal good. They are wrong, of course. No one is a "good guy" based on who s/he is. A "good guy" is someone who engages in good actions.
The problem is exacerbated by the extreme loyalty that police officers expect from each other. The vast majority of good cops will lie (at least a little) to protect a fellow officer -- even when they know that officer to be wrong and dishonest. A law professor of mine once said that cops were the most insular group of people he ever met. My career has convinced me he was right.
And yes, most judges and many jurors automatically believe anything a cop says. Or at least the judges pretend to believe so that they don't have to exclude evidence or dismiss the case.
82
Police probably DO NOT lie or selectively represent the truth anymore than other people: but their lies can destroy other lives, and destroy public faith in their roles. Tolerating or encouraging "testilying" contaminates a police department -
so it is terribly important for those in charge to model the right behavior - - which probably also requires civilian input.
Penalties for dishonoring your position and for falsifying records and false testimony should be high in recognition of the power that these records can carry.
What is recounted here doesn't even come near falling into often gray areas where different observers interpret events through their own viewpoint; as DA Vance says, they were "fabricated ... out of thin air."
23
You'd like to think so.
1
"Mr. Byrne said he believed that perjury was no more or less common among police officers than anyone else." And he doesn't see a problem with that? Officers of the law SHOULD be held to a higher standard than the general public.
60
I always wonder..........are the police lies more believable than the crook's lies? Who judges? Who is more believable? What do the Courts say?
9
In many cases, cop's word against yours is a losing proposition for you, unless you have overwhelming hard evidence that is admissible in court.
2
Well, duh, who are you going to believe, this fine upstanding officer of the law, or that no good criminal who is of course going to lie to get away with his crime?
3
If cops are testifying (often) potential jurors are questioned about how they feel about cops and if they think they would lie in certain situations, etc. This was my experience during jury selection for a murder trial in Newark two years ago. If you do not have the right attitude you will probably not be chosen to serve. This obviously affects the outcome. Most people do not think about these things until they have personal experience with them.
2
One of the many reasons it can be unsafe walking NYC streets: NYPD. But there are soooooooo many NYPD TV cop shows and movies telling the public that NYPD is cool when the truth is NYPD is dangerous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_perjury
28
Does anyone think this problem exists only in New York?
41
I practiced criminal defense for 40 years. Other than institutionalized racism, police perjury is, in my opinion, the biggest problem in the criminal justice system. In my last jury trial, the lead police officer wrote a report, under oath, claiming that my client had confessed to stabbing the victim while he was being processed in the lockup. I received in discovery a video of the processing, and far from confessing to the crime, my client strenuously denied stabbing anyone.
Despite the existence of the video, the officer testified at the trial to the same non-existent confession. When I confronted the officer with the video, he simply changed his story, without exhibiting any regret or shame at his attempt to mislead.
The jury returned a not guilty verdict. However, neither the prosecutor or the judge or the police department did anything about the officer's perjury, which could have sent my innocent client to prison had the video not been available.
172
If this is business as usual, then we need a new business.
3
Many factors in play. First, do not see many ACLU officials or NYTimes reporters offering to patrol violent, high-crime areas .. which, IMHO, would drive most people insane.
Second, isn't this making the case for "fraud, waste, and abuse" in government? Police officers have "performance evaluations," which foretell their future on the force. So, like most workers under pressure, they cut corners. (And, IMHO, like CIA agents, police officers are merely government workers with weapons training.)
Finally -- both many police officers and felons just never get it -- 70% of Americans have smartphones. Everyone is under surveillance, 24x7. To think one is "so smart" not to get caught on video/audio, is beyond stupid and ignorant.
1
there needs to be an option where a defendant can themselves bring perjury charges, bypassing the prosectors office. Unfortunately as far as i know, nowhere in this country does this option exist.
5
Police lying is a very serious problem for all crimes. It even occurs in traffic court as I discovered. I was given a ticket for making legal turn. The officer told me that there were people on the corner who might have wanted to cross and I needed to give way to pedestrians. However, no one was crossing the street when I made my turn. I told him that I could not anticipate if someone may want to cross a street in NYC and needed instead to concentrate on other cars and actual pedestrians. I decided to fight the ticket. As part of my "presentation", I took a picture of the corner since it was a four lane street with traffic moving both north and south and showing pedestrians. While in court, the officer told the judge that this picture was of the actual day. I told her that it wasn't. He lied and told the judge that there were pedestrians on the day he ticketed me. Unfortunately, I was very angry that he lied and said in open court when it wasn't my turn, "he's lying". That outburst earned me the ticket. But officers should not be immediately trusted, any more than anyone else. Everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt. It's sad when a cop lies, especially when it's something as minor as a traffic ticket. Now I carry my phone and intend to record any future incidents to remove lying from the equation. At the very least, police should be truthful and not violent. I don't think that's too much to ask.
65
When a police officer lies, a citizen should be able to say, "he's lying," without earning a ticket for it. Which is more important -- courtroom decorum or perjury?
1
When will the public begin to believe that police lie? There's also something much more insidious and systemic in all this than the "rogue" individuals whose corruption is undercovered. If success as a police officer depends on making arrests that "stick" through conviction, why wouldn't you be tempted to lie? I believe law enforcement has a much larger problem, and casts a dark shadow over those officers who really do walk the straight and narrow.
50
Time for a new Knapp Commission. He's not the only one.
32
the Knapp commission in the long run was a failure. This is a legislative problem, not some ad-Hoc commission's job. A simple change in the law is all that is needed. The right for a defendant to bypass the prosecutors office in bringing charges of at least perjury against any law enforcement officer and/or prosecutor, or judge.
11