Why is the head of this radical Muslim sect being protected by the US? Is he perhaps a CIA asset? Is the CIA behind this coup attempt? Does not the NYTimes want to research these rather obvious questions?
6
Some of the Americans are quite likely connected to the Gulen Movement which was most certainly at the heart of the coup attempt encouraged by Neo-Cons in the US. Others are clearly bargaining chips for Turkish business leaders arrested by the Manhattan Prosecutors office for pursuing official Turkish and Muslim national interests in subverting Israel and her supporters efforts to isolate Iran and prepare another Iraq type war of aggression. Turkey never agreed to follow US/Neo-Con sanctions against her neighbor and when her citizens held in US jails are released, Pastor Brunson and others will no doubt be released as well. The world has indeed changed dramatically since Operation Desert Storm. American policy makers are finally waking up to the fact that Neo-Con fueled interventions and wars of aggression in the Muslim world will always be met with retaliation and the curtailing of American power and interests in the vast Muslim world to the benefit of rivals like China.
4
Gulen is never being returned. Let Turkey put them on Trial. Also end ties with Turkey for being punks.
2
Bring them home! Sounds like a quiet ob for the CIA.
1
Change the official travel advice to: Don't travel to Turkey.
4
It's time to BOYCOTT, DIVEST and SANCTION Turkey to make this authoritarian regime scream in pain.
5
Re: "... American officials have appeared powerless..."
One wonders what Teddy Roosevelt would do.
He would of cut off Turkey. Trump should do the same. Like no more American products even no more Military weapons.
2
A few years ago Charlie Rose had Erdogan on his program. Mr. Rose's, as usual, soft ball questions made Erdogan seem like a rational man--or even a saint.
Even at that time a Turkish graduate student told me how oppression was increasing and people saw a rapid downward slope. It took several years for the world to see this but now is pretty clear.
4
Why should Americans care?
What do any of the dozens of Americans jailed in Turkey as a result of any alleged relationship with the failed coup have to do with the 2.3 million Americans in prison making up 25% of the total incarcerated on Earth with a mere 5% of human beings?
Turkey as a secular Sunni Muslim majority nation state is an American ally and a member of NATO. Turkey is an implacable foe of the Sunni Muslim Arab extremists in al Qaeda, ISIS and the Gulf oil states led by Saudi Arabia. Rex Tillerson, Donald Trump and Wilbur Ross were last seen Saudi sword dancing and orb rubbing with the corrupt autocratic fossil fuel royal House of Saud.
3
Turkey owes money for the Libyan and Syrian conflicts for all that bombing American did for them. Turkey is no longer an Allied and doesn't respect international law.
Serkan Golge, 37, the NASA scientist of Turkish decent is placed by NASA on "UNPAID LEAVE", surely you jest. Whoever made that decision at NASA should be fired.
6
Maybe, just maybe, they know more about the situation than you do. The silence of both the Obama and Trump State Departments on this matter is telling.
Why? It seems that NASA did the best option they have. They kept his job so that when he returns he can resume his work. In the civil service, they don't have many options.
That is what any large American company would do. They are not going to pay him.
I have no sympathy for Erdogan, and I suspect most of these people are indeed innocent and should be released. Having said that I haven't seen a single negative comment about Gulen and his movement from any of your readers here. And that's because you are reporting only one side of the story.
It is clearly established that Gulen was (and probably still is) a CIA asset. It is also clearly established that he infiltrated all the institutions of the Turkish state. You may not believe Erdogan and his supporters, but you should at least "listen" to the opposition, including journalists that Erdogan jailed.
Why would a peaceful, "moderate" muslim cleric "infiltrate" every single institution of a state, the police, the army, the justice system? What for? There is even a clueless reader who says he wished the coup succeeded. Seriously? If the coup had succeeded, Turkey would have become a sharia state in no time. With Erdogan, it is also getting there, but more slowly, and there is still some hope that he may not succeed.
Wake up and smell the coffee. Gulen and Erdogan are the two sides of the same coin. They worked hand in hand to steer Turkey away from secularism and democracy. And the US has been helping them with the hopes that their brand of 'moderate" Islam would help them to better control the Middle East and Central Asia. And as usual, these stupid schemes always end up by backfiring. The bad news is that it is the Turks who are paying the bill.
12
Poor Turkey. Ten centuries of Byzantine despotism, then five centuries of Ottoman despotism, and now who knows how many centuries of Erdoganism.
2
If you're going to go that far back, you should say "Poor Anatolia"
1
This is how a dictatorship works. Whoever is opposed to Turkish dictator or his brutal regime goes to jail. The dictator blames about everything to an old man who lives in Pennsylvania. I don't think that old man is able or willing to do anything illegal in Turkey or in the USA. Germany had Hitler, Russia had Stalin, North Korea has the fat dictator, Turkey has the tall dictator (Erdogan).
4
Mr. Erdogan has dictatorial tendencies and he has exploited the failed coup attempt to suppress dissent and punish his opponents. I applaud the NYT for drawing attention to the plight of the prosecuted. However, I also find it incredibly strange that the NYT continues to give the impression that it is Turkey and Turkey alone that holds Mr. Gulen, the reclusive cleric who lives in Pennsylvania, responsible for the coup d'etat that killed 247, injured hundreds, and traumatized millions of people, including many of my family members (yes, I'm an American citizen of Turkish origin). Mr. Gulen is not some popular preacher advancing a "benign, more tolerant version" of Islam. He is the leader of a cult-like movement that had successfully infiltrated the Turkish law enforcement, judiciary and military forces (with Erdogan's help!). His followers prosecuted Turkish secularists in ways very similar to what they are currently going through. If you would like to read a more balanced and in-depth report on Mr. Gulen, his movement, and his likely involvement in the coup attempt then take a look at this article in the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/17/turkeys-thirty-year-coup As for Mr. Gulen's potential affiliation with the CIA: perhaps the best people to answer that question are Mr. George Fidas, the former director of outreach for the CIA, and Mr. Graham Fuller, a former CIA official. After all, they wrote letters to support Mr. Gulen's green card application.
4
By the way, they do the same with Germans. There are quite a couple of Germans now in jail in Turkey with absurd accusations. They are bargaining chips because Turkey wants Germany to extradite "Gulenists". It already affects tourism.
As for the absurd accusations, you can nowadays be arrested in Turkey if you wear the wrong mass-market T-shirt or have certain letters in your license plate or have a credit granted decades ago by a now wrong (but when you applied for it, properly state-certified) bank.
All this must be considered together with the fact that Erdogan and Gulen were best buddies and it is not so long ago that Erdogan called Gulen "Turkey's biggest gift to mankind". You are not allowed to cite that quote (he said it in Parliament) in Turkey now, it would get you arrested and would prove that you are a "Gulenist".
You are also a "Gulenist" when you are a journalist and publish proof that Erdogan's son-in-law peddles arms to ISIS. I think the NATO allies should take a more rough stance with Turkey, NATO should not have dictatorships as members. Haven't we values ;-)
5
Are the Germans that are incarcerated flaxen-haired Gretel from Stuttgart, or is it Ahmed grandson of the pistachio dealer from Istanbul? It makes a difference.
1
If Gulen is such a threat to Erdogan we should support him.
No doubt Erdogan engineered the Turkish coup.
What support Erdogan has comes from the illiterate interior farmers and herders
The Educated Turks recognize Erdogan is a madman. Poor Turkey, makes every wrong move imaginable.
The Turkish movement to homogenizate its citizens has been a disaster. Starting with the Armenian genocides and moving on to the Greeks Assyrianss and Kurds. The younger urban Turks and the educated class lean west, but Erdogan moves is country east. . Backwards.
Turkey, still the "sick man of Europe"
3
Will Trump ask for UN sanctions against Turkey?
I am kiding....
2
Any American who is thinking about vacationing in Turkey is absolutely crazy. What would they leave themselves open to being arrested, yet alone provide financial support to a country that is bordering on fascism?
4
This sounds like a good country to have a travel ban with.
5
Forceful measures must be taken against Turkey to end these outrageous abductions: economic sanctions, suspension of all aid and expulsion from NATO would be a good start. Erdogan is a bully and a thug who needs to be stopped; under his tyrannical rule, Turkey cannot be considered an ally.
3
Turkey has broken its U.S. alliance and is no longer of strategic importance and so it is now time for the President of the United States to recognize the Armenian Genocide and its 1.5 million victims.
Deluded men who seek and retain control of our world at the point of a gun consider themselves reasonable human beings.
Not much reason, less humanity.
2
So the man promising to 'Make America great again' is capitulating in front of a dictator. Does Trump even for five minutes realize how conditions in a Turkish jail are? The dirt and the health risk. Sometimes I come to the conclusion that Washington is a fool's place.
2
Is it coincidental that in both North Korea and Turkey where American citizens are detained for alleged espionage a very high percentage have dual citizenship, that is either North Korean/American or Turkish/Americans. The very fact that they were well educated foreign nationals who later took American citizenship gives some credence to the possibility that they were less than satisfied with the country of their birth and could be persuaded to pursue American interest, or that of opposing political forces on visits to their native land. We would be foolish and naive to believe that intelligence services of those countries are incompetent, they have vast experience and networks tracking local dissidents.
No, it's not coincidental, though I think you mean South Korean, not North. Being a dual citizen US and local, has its advantages. You can get a local journalist's license in Iran, something not open to non-Iranians, which some of the prisoners in Iran had done. And when you are busted by the police for being up to your neck in the violent resistance, you can wave your US passport in the air and be assured of favorable coverage in the NY times.
That's the risk one takes having dual citizenship. President Erdogan was at the White House a few months ago. You mean to tell me that Trump couldn't sway him to bring American citizens home? this is like how North Korea used to hold American citizens to get something or just so Kim Jong-il, the late father, to meet former President Clinton in person while showing up to pick up American hostages. Erdogan is just another dictator who has a cult following similar to Americans who could find no fault in Trump. He even had a Russian fighter plane shot down and appear to suffer no consequences. We don't just hand over legal residents unlike we are exchanging spies.
1
Donald Trump's big mouth is surprisingly mute on this, when Americans are detained on dubious charges. Whatever happened to "America First?" Whatever happened to Mr. Tough Guy?
1
It is time to dispense with the myth that Turkey is a westernized secular democracy that happens to be Muslim-dominated. It is clearly not, and is fast descending into being a new Iran. We should consider the prisoners held by Turkey as equivalent to the American Embassy hostages from 1979, and model our foreign policy accordingly.
2
Isn't this a sign that our country is no longer respected? Imagine that.
1
We need to support an independent Kurdistan, as a buffer between the ambitions if Dictator Edrogen, and those of Iran.
1
To this day former President Carter is made fun of as a do-nothing because of the Iran hostage situation. What has Trump done?
2
That's one democracy less in the world. The Supreme Court is currently deciding if a second will follow.
2
Turkey used to be a reasonably functional democracy, and people were allowed to support political parties and movements representing a variety of views. Gulen and Erdogan, in fact, used to be political allies supporting democratization and a role for moderate Islam against the secular and authoritarian military. Now Erdogan is moving to consolidate his role as ruler of an authoritarian state, and tens of thousands of people have been arrested or lost their jobs for any indication that they might challenge his ability to do that. The arrests are not limited to the tiny number of people who were involved with the coup attempt. Turkey has become a place where you can end up in jail for thought crimes.
2
It seems a very wrong for NASA to put this scientist on unpaid leave. If the US position is that he is being detained for something he did not do, he should continue to be paid. NASA should not leave this family high and dry. Keeping him on the payroll maintains his rightful status as a US government employee and not a criminal.
2
" If the US position is that he is being detained for something he did not do ..."
The article nowhere states that the US has protested the arrest or trial of Mr. Golge. Read it carefully.
It seems that Turkey is significantly less safe for Americans than Cuba or Venezuela. The State Department should suspend all American travel to Turkey and suspend all aid as well. The need for Turkey's cooperation in our regional wars is highly diminished as we have lost in Syria and Iraq's Balkanization is well underway. I would think that travel from Turkey, as well as any immigration, should be suspended, much like we treated Cuba for 50 plus years.
1
From day one I believed that Erdogan himself was responsible for the coup. Take a look at the strategy employed by the coup leaders. Instead of controlling media outlets and government buildings, rebel soldiers instead decided to capture a bridge. Were they trying to take over the country or create a massive traffic jam? And who is the one person that has benefited so tremendously from the coup?
Lastly, the west, especially Europe, needs to be extremely wary of Erdogan and his expanding designs on power. There are probably a couple of million Turks living in Europe who are prepared, able and willing to do Erdogan's bidding when called upon. These Turks represent Erdogan's fifth column in Europe who will do everything possible to undermine and destabilize the status quo in order to help the Turkish President achieve his goal of establishing a greater Islamic footprint in Europe.
About 2.7 million Turks live in Germany while another a half million live in the Netherlands. Most all of these people will happily do whatever is asked of them should Erdogan demand it.
This appears to be working because European politicians don't seem to have a clue on how to tackle this ominous problem.
1
The Turkish Govt has bought additional land in Manhattan to expand it Embassy-
This should not be allowed to happen. It is time that we put severe restrictions on Turkey-It is time we stop cuddling dictators- Turkey should be off limits accepts for the most vital of contacts.
NASA has suspended Gogle's salary, forcing his wife to sell their home.
The US government withdraws support from a man unjustly imprisoned.
That's how it treats its own.
Erdogan is not the only bad guy in this scenario.
1
Given U.S. attempts to “guide” other nations to capitalism/“freedom,” it’s not all that difficult to believe Americans are involved in political intrigue. Given Middle Eastern government tendencies to be rigid and vindictive, it’s equally reasonable to believe authorities would cast a wide net in response to an attempted coup. Outrage from our side is as gratuitous as are these arrests.
Please, let those on the HIGH MORAL GROUND remember that there are many prisoners in Guantanamo who have been 'Hostages to Politics' for many many years – even though it is known that they are completely innocent.
4
from the USA passport site:
Turkey Travel Warning
Last Updated: September 28, 2017
The Department of State warns U.S. citizens of the continuing threats from terrorist groups in Turkey....We recommend U.S. citizens carefully consider the need to travel to Turkey at this time, and avoid travel to southeast Turkey. This replaces the travel warning dated March 28, 2017.
3
It's sad for the families of the Americans detained in Turkey on trumped-up charges and held as political hostages. The country is a pariah state as long as Erdogan is in power. He is highly paranoid and obsessed with the persecution of real and perceived enemies.
It remains to be seen how long Fathullah Gülen can remain in his US exile under Trump, who doesn't care much about ethics and principles. He might have Gülen extradited to Turkey in exchange for the American missionary, Andrew Brunson, in order to be in the evangelical Christians' good books. No wonder Mike Pence is keen on negotiating for his release.
4
Bottomline: Given the somewhat randomness of the people imprisoned, Americans cannot safely visit Turkey for any reason. At least Erdogan is completely blunt about what he is doing.
10
I agree and think US State Department would ban travel if US residents to Turkey or, at the least, issue travel warnings.
I was a consultant to the Turkish Government and people in 1999 under a USAID program. The people I worked with and encountered were bright, secular, hard working, and eager to fully be part of Western culture. I wonder what they are thinking now. I hope they are all safe.
How I wish the coup had been successful.
14
Actually, the coup was designed and staged in a way to fail so that it could be used as pretext for eliminating the individuals and institutions that were in the way. Now, they are out of the way, a one-man dictatorship is fully in place. Let us not also forget that the AKP and Erdogan were CIA projects going back to the early 1990s.
1
Let's see if the Administration speaks out as loudly on this case as it is when it comes to Americans held in Iran or North Korea.
Turkey is slowly but surely moving away from NATO and forging new ties with Russia. ( https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/world/europe/turkey-russia-missile-de... ) Despite the horrible security implications of Turkey becoming a Russian client in such a strategically important part of the world, Trump has had nothing but praise for his friend Erdogan.
“It’s a great honor and privilege — because he’s become a friend of mine — to introduce President Erdogan of Turkey,” Trump told reporters. “He’s running a very difficult part of the world. He’s involved very, very strongly and, frankly, he’s getting very high marks.”
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/21/trump-erdogan-turkey-praise-242986
Not apparently from Vice President Pence. Wonder where he was that day.
13
Let what Mr Erdogan has succeeded in doing to Turkey alert us to what Mr Trump is already starting to do to the US.
19
Turkey, our NATO ally....really?
7
Yes. NATO is a military alliance NOT a political one.
2
Yes Turkey totally NATO member? But YPG-PKK not! Why US work with these terorist groups? Please explain briefly?
1
Simple. Mr. Ambassador, your embassy is closed.
4
Trump Towers Istanbul; Any country with a Trump property or deal in the works will receive platitudes from Trump, support and money regardless of the atrocities toward US citizens, US interests or anyone or anything. Trump is bought anew every day; they announce each day's price on Fox.
12
The responsibility goes to those who chose to sustain attempts to try to take over another country. Or, you can continue the hypocrisy and aggress, then complain about being caught up in the efforts at counter terrorism.
2
Said like an Erdogan stooge. Counterterrorism is one thing, Turkey is undergoing a purge. Even the barest hint of appearance of dissent is enough to lose your job or be imprisoned.
1
It is obvious from this report that Trump doesn't know what he is doing. A total incompetent. Sad.
5
I vacationed in Turkey nearly 10 years ago, and it was one of the most beautiful trips I've experienced: friendly people, historic sites and gorgeous landscapes.
Here we sit a decade later, and I wouldn't touch that place with a 100 ft pole. So much for geo-political stability...
25
Erdogan is a totalitarian and the U.S. needs to cut off all support and get Turkey expelled from NATO, despite the fact it will make dealing with Syria and Iraq more challenging. Let him consort with Putin and the Ayatollahs, whom he resembles. Meanwhile the Turkish economy will continue to go down the tubes.
11
The US fought along side Staline's primitive bolshevik russia against russia's ally the NAZIs. Today's Turkey is way more civilised and democratic than staline's ruusia. Also, today's Turkey is no different from vladimir Putin's russia
1
Last I checked, Russia is not holding Americans prisoner as pawns in it's political fights.
A dozen American citizens jailed in Turkey on bogus charges and Donald J. Trump, POTUS, is not displaying his tremendous negotiating skills? So sad. This article should be on the front page. I know it's more important to the jailed American citizens, their families, and friends than any of the other topics the POTUS is tweeting about.
19
I would bet Foxs News pundits and last eight years of Obama's critics doesn't broadcast this kick in 'tough guy's' Trump teeth by Turkey.
4
Turkey is an enemy Islamic state. Throw them out of NATO yesterday. It is a dictatorship and does not meet the standards to belong to a Western alliance.
14
I think a Kurdish homeland is in order. I think that might spark Turkey's cooperation.
9
Turkey should be kicked out of NATO. It is a Third World Country.
17
Turkey should be out of NATO and we should stop resupply of US based armament systems. Next time Erdogan visits let have a real protest along with some well trained folks to deal with his goon squad.
17
I thought Trump bashed Obama and others after Otto died in NK. He said nothing like this ever happen again. This looks like 12x of Otto..
where are you coward Trump?
18
Turkey is our mortal enemy and must be expelled from NATO. They were an ISIS ally helping terrorists cross the border into Syria and fighting the Kurds our only true ally in the region. Turkey is an Islamic dictatorship. At one time they were a true friend.
No longer.
41
No opinion on whether these deserve to be held, but I'm struck at how often Americans jailed overseas are presented as innocent victims, until they're released, and Alan Gross-fashion, it turns out they weren't so innocent.
3
If what you say happens "so often," I hope you'll share some links to prove it.
Rather than links, I will remind you of cases ... Amanda Knox in Italy ... the "hikers" in Iran ... the various people who have "wandered" into North Korea ... Alan Gross in Cuba ... all received lavish coverage that played up claims of innocence amid suggestions by the media that the local courts were not good enough to try Americans and that the whole process was political and corrupt so that release was a matter of a political deal, rather than the merits of guilt or innocence.
I hope we get all these people out especially gulanists if any of them are associated with that. The thing is we have to stop pushing the notion that American's can be "duel nationals" we can't. I know their are ppl who think they are because I see them over stay their visas and basically come and go as they please. If u accept the benefits of the laws of a foreign country can u really be surprised when they turn against you? My first Sargent in the Army was a french Canadian who had been living the good life south of the border as a full time perpetual student......he got drafted.
1
People who overstay their visas do not have dual citizenship: they are foreign nationals, which is why they need a visa to begin with. These are people with full citizenship, who also hold citizenship in another country, in some instances (like Germany), because a parent was born there.
The next president we have really needs to put the screws to Erdogan. To have the leader of a country that strategically important acting like a complete child is not healthy to the long term security of the West. Get Europe on board, get whoever we need on board, but its time for an intervention.
5
trump loves and admires Erdogan almost as much as he loves and admires Putin.
Dictator Love
29
Great relationship, that is tottally war industry! What about China?
This should be at the TOP of the news. A NASA scientist? Where is Trump? Why is nothing being done? Why does Trump like Erdogan so much?
15
There is little being done except for the Protestant minister because the people being held have brown skin and a I would assume by their names mostly Muslim.
10
The article is very scary as if no American should travel to Turkey. But, it seems plenty of Americans are traveling to Turkey as if there is nothing happening. What is the wrong with the pictur?
6
cut off tourism with a stern warning from the State Department to Americans thinking of visiting Turkey. Travel at your own peril. North Korea like?
4
One more thought about the ugliness of Erdogan's effort to use US Citizens as political pawns
It is totally disingenuous for him to ask the US to exchange prisoners, with Gulen, who is free and safe in a democratic country like the US and can choose to go to back to his native Turkey, whenever he wants...
I hope the US and the West stop issuing visas for any all tourists, wanting to visit Turkey...
11
At Turkey's reckless rate of imprisonment, there will soon be more people behind bars than not.
3
If a dozen Americans being held hostage by this dictator Erdogan is not enough to prompt our president into action then what is that magic number? Twenty? Fifty? One hundred? Or is it possible Donald Trump just talks like a tough guy but in reality is afraid to take action when Americans are threatened.
The only thing he's done so far was fire a few cruise missiles at a Syrian airbase after he alerted the Russians the imminent strike was about to take place so all their military personnel could move to safety.
Maybe Trump doesn't get that putting America first includes rescuing these American hostages. Either that or he is still trying to come up with a zinging twitter (Trump's weapon of choice) to launch at Erdogan.
12
He's for putting himself first. He doesn't give a hoot about America.
8
Erdogan has a lot in common with Trump. Spends tax money like a drunken sailor, has no concept of constitutional authority and wants to turn his country into a Muslim caliphate while Trump wants an evangelical one. Turkey is a NATO ally and we can pressure Erdogan. Now is the time.
21
It's time to ... stop working. That's right. All Americans should stop working, expressly until the following transpires:
1. A fully functional State Department is put in place with experienced professionals of both political parties at the helm.
2. Trump's twitter account is officially and permanently consigned to the dustbin of history.
3. This administration issues a policy statement to the effect that autocracies and strongmen (or women) simply do not, with the US, fly; and that the US will not negotiate with any government or non-government, whether claiming to promote or fight terrorism, that takes American citizens as hostages for purposes of leveraging their well-being in dealings with the US government.
If we all stopped working for one day, the US federal government would get its act together immediately.
5
We are cattle and get herded where the controllers want us to go. I can not work for a day but millions can't afford this. It's not like the days when you could boycott Northern Quilted (owned by Koch) or grapes in CA and get a meaningful result.
Has has the State Department issued a Travel Advisory over this situation, that Americans may be targeted by the Government and falsely detained for political reasons? Don't see anything on the website other than for terrorist activities. Issue a Travel Advisory and/or a Travel Ban now! Restrict all travel on Turkish Airlines flights that stopover in Istanbul!
20
Ecclesiastes 10:4 (NIV) If a ruler’s anger rises against you, do not leave your post; calmness can lay great offenses to rest.
Patience is always difficult. America must always lead by example. President Trump is correct, diplomacy is the only route.
I agree. Too bad Trump doesn't engage in diplomacy.
1
Trump has systematically gone about trying to destroy the State Department.
It is amazing you try to detect a connection between DT and patience. Oh sure, he is the most calm and tolerant person I ever saw on this planet. Nevertheless all I can hope is you're right, even in more difficult cases as NK ...
Why is it so hard to understand. This is how DT's posturing and insensitive remarks made to foreign leaders backfires. All the rant and raving both during the campaign and during his early presidency about European countries and their leaders became a record of his view. It is also the ammunition that they use to justify their action, no matter how misguided. Trump doesn't seem to remember that every statement about this or that leader or country being weak, pushovers, losers, etc, etc all gets back to those leaders. The difference is they don't strike back, they wait for the opportunity and when Trump wants something they play back his actions in their minds and respond with the theme of. "Oh you think were weak, this is how weak we are." Unfortunately this is the price we will continue to pay as Trump refuses to act is every way, save one that is presidential.
4
It's certainly Erdogan who orchestrated the military coup. He's been now profiting from it. Whoever profits from result is the main actor.
13
Now is the time for the CIA to make amends for engineering the disastrous 1953 Iran coup that killed democracy there, installed the puppet-Shah, and thereby laid the groundwork for the Iranian theocracy of today. Do it right this time -- even if not in Iran. Pull the Turkish rug out from under Erdogan's emerging totalitarian/theocratic state and restore the democracy that the Turkish people voted for.
7
Yes, of course! That's what the CIA does, promote democracy.
1
"Why is Turkey still in NATO?"
Location, location, location.
6
Despite all the bluster from Trump administration, the US has been very soft and obedient in dealing with Erdogan. I expect it to get worse as he has realized how weak the auS has become in defending American interests and citizens. The current situation shouldn't be a surprise. What did the administration did when is thugs came to our country and beat our citizens? They freely walked on our soil, showed us their middle finger and departed from our airports. Or they are bullying and working hard to crush democratic move of our Kurdish "allies," what did our gov did? We vehemently supported Turkey's and Iran's position! I feel sorry for our countrymen imprisoned in Turkey but have little hope about our gov's ability or will to stand up to Erdogan and his thugs.
54
There is a similiar situation here in Germany. Turkey has taken twelve German citizens as hostages. Most are journalists and human right activists.
They are accused of being terrorists. Well everybody who does not kiss the feet of the new sultan these days is a terrorist.
It is a shame that western governments do not coordinate and implement hard economic sanctions against the Erdogan regime.
Obama considered Erdogan to be his 'best friend'. The softness and obedience goes back a long ways.
Erdogan see's himself as the new sultan of a new Ottoman Empire that will restore the Turkish greatness. The problem with that concept is that the countries that make up the former empire have long memories and don't care for the Turkish 'help'.
Yet another fascist strongman dictator who has turned his country into a police state as we stand helplessly by watching tens of thousands of people being incarcerated illegally and unjustly for merely speaking out against the fraud of his election. A frightened Trump will always back down to this bully and the world will see another western democracy fade away into a fascist police state. Trump couldn't even stand up to him when his bodyguards beat up American citizens who were expressing the freedom of speech that has disappeared in Turkey. Sad for the Turkish people and sad for the entire world.
17
I am afraid that Turkey has slipped into a dictatorship that has no respect for international law. Western tourist should avoid this country like the plague.
36
This is one reason not to hold dual ctizenship.
I do not understand why Americans by naturalization would want to hold another passport.
I was born in India and am a naturalized US citizen. I would never want to have Indian passport which luckily for me is forbidden.
I think these folks with dual citizenships are asking for trouble.
Luckily, India has not gone the Turkey or Iran or so many other countries.
But if I were to find myself in a similar situation, I would leave India in a NY minute.
5
There are countries that don't recognise a naturalisation. Your new passport cannot protect you because you're visiting relatives & your identity is known. Indeed your new passport may incriminate you. American citizens visiting Europe as WW2 began were caught up & murdered. Their US passports were of no help.
Why do Americans and Canadians persist in visiting countries of origin when these countries are dangerous to their safety. Up here in Canada we had 2 former Iranians, now Canadians return to Iran at different times. They were arrested on "trumped" charges and were jailed for several years. Yet they expected the Canadian government to get them out of trouble.
The same goes for Americans. Why go to countries that are sheer trouble?You had that terrible incident with the American student who went to North Korea, came home in a coma, and then passed away. Also several South American countries are in harm's way, and you risk the danger of being killed.
These countries should be on a danger list, and if you go there, no matter what, you take the risk on your own responsibility!
Of course, a tourist visiting the USA, might say the same thing about guns and mass shootings, and suggest the USA be on a no-fly list!
17
Why did they visit, did you read the article? They had family or friends there, one had been there 23 years as a missionary.
1
The reason hyphenated Americans often return to the country of their ancestors is because they still have living relatives there. In 1979 there was an Iranian-American working him my office. Soon after the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini seized power my co-worker went back to Iran because his father was seized by the Ayatollan's men. His apparent crime was being a wealthy Jewish man. My co-worker came back to work when he and his father got out of Iran. My co-worker was always profoundly depressed, probably because of what was going on in Iran.
Then one week, probably in 1980, my co-worker did not show up for work for many days, and most of us had no idea where he was. Finally, late on Friday our firm's top leader called us together. He said our co-worker had gone back to Iran again, because his father had gone back to Iran without telling his sons. Why did the elderly Iranian Jewish man go back to Iran? He wanted to retrieve some valuable possessions which had been in the family for decades.
By the grace of God my co-worker got his father out of Iran a second time. At that point my co-worker was able to devote himself to learning his profession. He matured into a fine person who was elected President of his Temple. However his experiences dealing with a hostile regime in his native country always stayed with him.
I wrote this comment so that Americans commenting here can realize the popular admonition "Just don't go back there" is often not a viable alternative.
5
Majortrout is Canadian.
The way to deal with a strongman is to play his own game. If the US threatens to recognize Kurdish independence unless those Americans are immediately returned home, they'll be on the next flight out.
39
I agree, except with some other threat. The Kurds earned their independence, whether Erdogan was chuckworthy or not, and the US must step aside and let it happen.
1
Why have Erdogan and his thugs been allowed to visit the United States in this period during which these hostages have been held?
93
Because Trump loves dictators, so naturally he doesn't mind if they visit, because then he gets to watch them in action up close and then dream as only a consummate narcissist would of how much better he'd be at it.
2
How long can an odious dictatorship like Turkey remain a member of NATO?
35
Their NATO membership will remain until there is a tectonic shift that geographically put Turkey's strategic bases away from Russia. Sad, I know.
26
Those "plates" have already begun to shift.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/world/europe/turkey-russia-missile-de...
As long as Turkey controls the only strait out of the Black Sea, thus bottling the Russian fleet up in case of war.
Turkey didn't belong in the North Atlantic ... NAto
Time to start arresting visiting Turks? Time to expel Turkey from NATO?
14
I am up to reciprocal laws ... Yes, indeed, time to play hardball with Turkey...
2
Easy fix without the moron's assistance. None of us should travel to Turkey until the hostages are returned. Don't need to spend tourist dollars there .
43
No one in their right mind would go there now. I first saw travel notices right after the attempted coup. From there it went to travel advisement, avoid, and warning. Tourism from the US doesn't exist except for the people who have the view "Oh it can't happen to me, I'm American."
5
I'm hearing the same thing about those who thought about coming to the country formerly known as a Democratic Republic but have been cautioned about coming here.
3
Erdogan, the authoritarian autocrat, is moving along the path of his ancestors, Sultan Hamid II, the Red Sultan, and the notorious Young Turks who committed the first genocide against Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians 1915-1920.
He is no friend of the US or of Europe and will soon close the US base in Injirlik ,as he opens Turkey's doors to Putin ( with whom he shares the same autocratic polies).
He is taking Turkey back to its notorious days of the Ottoman Empire, that terrorized the entire Middle East for centuries.
13
Read some history, the only people that terrorized Middle East are British and French. They are the main reason for everything that is going on there since the end of WWI.
4
Wrong. You read history!
2
Hasn't Turkey made an official request to the U.S. for the extradition of Fethullah Gulen? Where does that stand? What is the evidence that he indeed "orchestrated" the coup attempt last year? I'm not suggesting that we turn an innocent man over to the Turks, but if he was complicit, we should extradite him, and get our citizens back.
4
Last I read about this, the Turkish government did not have enough evidence to convince an American court to put Gulen into their custody. That's why Michael Flynn, then an advisor to Trump and an agent of Turkey, was discussing kidnapping Gulen with some of Erdogan's agents last year.
1
Let me get this straight: Turkey as been unable to convince US authorities to extradite Gulen, for reasons this article and/or those authorities do not reveal, so Turkey's response is, in effect, to kidnap American citizens and hold them hostage in exchange for Gulen's extradition? If I didn't know better, I'd say the Americans currently rotting in Turkish prisons are there due to the actions of a foreign government that are no different than those of a gang of criminals, with its chief mobster, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, calling the shots.
What a worthless government we have. From what I can see, Donald Trump has done nothing to rescue these American citizens from the brutal, corrupt and dictatorial Erdogan and his cronies. We've even heard none of his usual pointless tough talk. And if and when it comes, it is likely to be as useful as his dedicating a golf trophy to Puerto Rico's hurricane victims.
What makes American impotence more shameful is the fact that the country wrongfully imprisoning our citizens in order to exchange them for Gulen is supposed to be our ally, indeed a fellow member of Nato. However, like his buddies Putin and Trump, Erdogan doesn't care that the rest of the world views him as a gangster so long as his favorable ratings remain strong among his hardcore, largely ignorant and religious supporters. Like Putin and Trump, he likely enjoys his high despicability rating among the intelligent and humane of his own country and the world.
40
Before you get all worked up about Trump, remember that the failed coup and arrest of Americans was in July 2016 - and that Obama was equally bad at rescuing them. I don't like Trump, but I certainly like keeping the facts straight. The facts include Obama along with Trump.
1
Obama was out of office four months later, trumps been in office almost a year. Diplomatic actions take months or years to achieve results; if Obama had started discussions, no one would expect instant results. But with your Trump, no one expects any results, ever. Putin wouldn't like it!
4
Does the United States have an extradition agreement with Turkey or not? If we do & Turkey Says Fethullah Gulen is a criminal they want he should be handed over. We would be outraged by another country making their own determination whether or not a given person should be subject to our jurisprudence. A country that does not have the death penalty usually refuses extradition when the death penalty is on the table as it would be for Gulen, but we have the death penalty & are in no position to deny Turkey their justice.
3
Gullen has not been convicted in Turkey, he only is accused. There is no evidence that Turkey made its case sufficiently to stand in the US court that should approve the extradition of an accused man. Your urge to apply appeasement policies to an Islamist dictator is not convincing. https://www.voanews.com/a/united-states-extradition-muslim-cleric-gulen-...
4
The word you so casually pass by without notice, is justice! They can make their case and we can deny it in the name of your silent word, justice!
2
Of course he hasn't been convicted, they want him back so they can try him in their courts, not U.S. courts. How arrogant that we should require a measure equitable to our jurisprudence. If thats the case we would never be able to extradite anybody to any country as no other country has a system like ours. If we don't approve of their jurisprudence than we shouldn't have an extradition agreement with them.
I don't think it's a coincidence that so many are dual citizens. People get a US citizenship to add to their collection and then use it as a shield while carrying out activities that will force us to expend diplomatic resources. Remember the South Korean pastors who keep going into the North? They all have dual citizenship with the US. Those who got in trouble in Iran, ditto.
Time for the US government to end dual citizenship. You choose, US or some other country, but not both.
13
To be a National of the US requires the individual to be (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.
You can't claim allegiance to 2 countries. You can have dual Nationality but that doesn't make you a US Citizen in the way you claim. If a national makes a petition to become a national of another country they are releasing their US nationality (claiming allegiance to the foreign country by way of the petition.)
If the US national marries a foreign national they may be a dual national (they didn't apply to become a national, only married, if marriage doesn't require both parties to nationals of their country) Dual nationality gives a easier transition between the two countries but the laws of the land you are in apply to dual national. US laws won't protect them or help if they have violated the law. (Keep in mind that US conventions such as "Innocent until proven guilty" aren't part of other country's legal systems.)
Unfortunately many countries don't allow renunciation of citizenship... so it matters not that you have returned to your birth country from your birth countries point of view; turkey has a more complex system than most.
1
I don’t think that the US recognizes dual citizenship except in the case of Israel. My understanding is that once a US citizen, the other citizenship is not recognized. The birth country recognizes dual citizenship (not India) but the US doesn’t
1
When turkey began attacking Israel in international forums supporting Hammas, and trading with Iran, no one cared. Now, it's becoming clear that they are beginning to threatening the west, USA, Germany, maybe people will start paying close attention. Turkey has decided their interests lay with their Muslim neighbors and Russia and against the west. It's only a short time before they withdraw from NATO. (Even today, they can not be counted on to help the alliance).
9
When Erdogan was first elected, it was concerning that he would be less secular and more sectarian. He has continued to become more authoritarian over the years, to the point now that Americans are risking their lives if they visit, even as tourists. The last straw was where Erdogan's thugs had the temerity to beat up protestors in Washington.
However, the US is walking a thin line in that our air base there is absolutely essential for our sorties in that part of the world. Now, we are really in a quagmire as to proceeding further, with Erdogan as an "ally". It is becoming more clear as to where Erdogan stands, with his expanded relations with Putin and his ilk.
3
Do not go to Turkey - it has become a lawless country eager to sweep up Americans into its jails to hold hostage. Turkey is now becoming as lawless as North Korea.
62
Americans are being held hostage because a dictator wants to kill an lawful resident of the United States. Our own would be dictator has not yet consolidated his power and for the time being this a a nation of laws. That problem is being addressed daily but handing over a legal U.S. Resident to a dictator for almost certain death in imprisonment, just won't was with the American people.
Turkey is holding American hostages and this government, if it has any moral courage at all should make it clear that the cost of this hostage game will be to withdraw our ambassador for consultations and make it clear to Turkey that it will freeze Turkish assets in the USA if American hostages are not promptly released and sever diplomatic relations, The point being that you do not get away with blackmailing the USA without paying a steep price. Allies do not hold hostages. We need to get Turkey, which is unreliable, out of NATO.
54
A commenter quite rational asks why American travel to Turkey is not banned. I oppose bans generally, but every traveler to Turkey must appreciate that the risk is very considerable.
We made a trip to Turkey in 2014 and still jabber aboutin. But aside from the pleasure of Istanbul, we got a very real glimpse of a burgeoning police state with dictatorship.
Turkey is no longer a democracy and it engages in widespread repression - a lot of it to continue the concentration of power of Erdogan as a dictator. We planned a stroll the Main Street in the European Quarter toward Taksim Square but decided to delay for a day. A good decision.
There was a protest that evening about the death of a young boy who was shot in the head with a tear gas canister nearly a year earlier as he walked near a protest encounter on an errand for his mother.
We were shocked at the brutality of the police on television, including many aimed tear gas shots to protester heads.
Turkey is unstable. Many think with reason that Erdogan staged the coup against him. He could not serve again as Prime Minister. He failed in successive attempts to win the votes needed to shift all power to the presidency.
Erdogan attacked Kurdish villages and massacred thousands of Kurds who voted against. Every action he has taken is intended to add power. He lives in a billion plus palace he built - more than a thousand rooms.
He is not an Attaturk, But a sordid little thug
113
Cease any aid to Turkey and Erdogan.
62
With allies like Saudi & Turkey, why do we think a Shia-led Iran is our reaa enemy (less barbaric & more civilized than the Sunni cult - we know of Persian civilization, but Arab civilization is unknown)? Oh sorry, I answered that in my question itself.
19
We have a major airbase in Turkey and petroleum in Saudi Arabia. I don't think the niceties of the Sunni/Shia split matter much in either case.
I'm shocked, shocked that President Trump isn't making the detainment of Americans a big deal.
40
Turkey should be expelled from NATO. Would we really send American troops to defend this Islamist dictatorship?
117
Question: What are the fundamental differences between Trump and Erdogan? Answer: Trump dyes his hair, does not speak Turkish, and puts ketchup on his steak. And I'm not even sure about Erdogan and ketchup.
17
Is Turkey going the way of Iran?
2
America has its own "hostages to politics" and their residence is Guantanamo, Cuba.
14
Makes you wish we had a functioning state department, doesn’t it?
150
Why would a traveler, a tourist from any nation risk visiting Turkey now? Turkey spends large sums on travel advertisements but events speak louder than words.
34
Seems like it's time for a remake of Midnight Express, with a slightly different plot.
3
Isn't self-imposed exile the same as being on the lam? I'm sure there's a big Roman Polanski following somewhere around the world too. Maybe they'll be one for Harvey as well soon.
1
The corrupt Turkish government is now officially a hostage taker.
Sanctions until the hostages are released.
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
83
These Americans are clearly being held hostage and we should treat the situation like we did the Iranian hostage crisis. Start freezing Turkish assets like we did with Iran. It is pathetic that Pence seems to have the most interest in a missionary who happens to share Pence's faith. They are all Americans and should be treated equally.
15
Put Turkey on list of countries not to visit on a bet.
6
i love turkey. this is such a disaster. ataturk is weeping in his grave. to all my turkish friends, i weep for you as well.
5
Maybe we should boycott Turkey until the Turkish government releases our fellow Americans that are being held without any evidence of lawbreaking.
4
And NASA places Golge on unpaid leave? Have they no shame? This seems to make NASA an accessory to the crime.
13
You'd think someone imprisoning Americans with scant evidence wouldn't be welcome in the White House, especially after their guards beat Americans on our soil. Not even a tweet.
23
Perhaps we should support an independent Kurdistan.
45
Total support for the Kurdish independent state is in order! Turkey should be kicked out of NATO.
15
We should know by the behavior of Erdogen's security detail who, allegedly on Erdogen's order, attacked protesters in Washington D.C. that Turkey is being run like a fascist state and no one is safe from being detained and jailed. It looks as if Trump admires Erdogen's power and wishes that he could similarly rule the U.S. My son is currently traveling in Asia and I will warn him not to visit or even land in Turkey because it is unsafe for Americans.
17
Looks like the end of tourist dollars for Turkey. Getting picked up by Erdogan's goons doesn't sound like an experience anybody would want. Why is this country still in NATO?
206
They are not in the EU for many good reasons, but I expect there is still a large net advantage to us and other NATO members if they remain in NATO. The alternative almost certainly is worse for national security interests.
1
Nonsense, Turkey is a Trojan horse in NATO. They would sell NATO any day to Islamists and to Putin.
3
Because NATO needs Turkey's airfields to attack in Syria and probably in many other secret campaigns. NATO doesn't want Turkey to completely fall into Russia's lap either. The US started all this in 2003 when Pres Bush used the WMD claims to justify blowing up Iraq and the rest of the Arab world.
1
This is really a shame - Turkey used to be a really wonderful country to visit. Hopefully the tide will turn in the next election.
8
Election! How cute! They just had an election, 1-2 years ago. The government jailed thousands of lawyers and judges. You cannot count on elections in Turkey any more.
6
Financial sanctions should also be imposed.
5
Trump-Pence admin quickly moved to foreign policy based upon 'real politick' meanings America first ignoring basic human rights versus 8 years of Obama-Biden foreign policy that required human rights be part of foreign policy. Now, whilst American troops engage in more offensive military actions, American citizens traveling abroad are increasingly in danger of becoming pawns of foreign autocrats engaging in the own 'my country first'. Trump-Pence have succeeded in turning back time to the 1950s, hostile political times, little global cooperation amongst allies, and foreign policy of 'send the Marines' before talking.
1
This is not conduct fitting of a NATO member.
The U.S. should be coordinating a response, at the very least a joint statement with the other NATO governments.
7
A statement won't do anything and would be used as toilet paper by Erdogan. Sanctions or a boycott would be a better start.
1
Unfortunately Turkey's strategic location is advantageous to the US. Turkey is also a NATO partner. Maybe some of our closer NATO allies that have better relationships with Turkey could advocate on our behalf. The Russians, (remember them) are all to eager to antagonize the situation and drive a bigger wedge between NATO partners. Either way, it would be wise for US Citizens to stay out of Turkey.
2
Under Erdogan Turkey has changed so that is is no longer a US ally and is defacto an adversary. Not a friendly country anymore. It is time to boot them from NATO.
7
"At NASA, her husband was put on unpaid leave." While being held hostage, against his will (in a country that is supposedly an ally of the U.S.!). Wouldn't it be moral, ethical and patriotic to cover his family's mortgage while he is being detained?
94
The US government is run by politicians.
Therefore it is neither moral nor ethical.
" Wouldn't it be moral, ethical and patriotic to cover his family's mortgage while he is being detained?"
You've got to be kidding - that would cost tax dollars! McConnell and Ryan aren't about to let THAT happen.
1
We can thank Donald Trump for this turn of events. If Erdogan's thugs were not allowed by the Trump administration to attack and beat up with impunity peaceful American citizens protesting in front of the Turkish Embassy in Washington this past summer without a whisper of complaint or a scintilla of retribution on the Administration's part, Turkey would not be daring to detain and imprison American citizens in Turkey. Who will protect the American people from our own chief executive?
56
Add Turkey to the long list of countries Trump has alienated.
Unfortunately this kind of open contempt by another world leader will only intensify Trump's growing fury. He is just itching to unleash his power...."calm before the storm", "do what we have to do".
Please, Pentagon, hide the "football"!
5
Imagine if this had happened during the Obama administration or the now only imagined Clinton administration, the howling of weakness of the part of the American presidency would so loud, commissions and hearings would be underway, the GOP would have been beating their chest suggesting huge military options or rather that their candidate would be so powerful that no country would even defy him.
So, I would go back to Trump's words ' "What have you got to lose?". Answer: Everything
7
Why should we complain? We set the rules, the others just copy it.
The Golden Rule - do unto others what you expect them to do unto you.
The day we change our behavior, the others will follow it too.
4
Erdogan's abuse of power is conspicuous, with the loss of it's democracy, and the muzzling of the press is but one of its effects. And the jailing and suspected torturing goes on uninterrupted, in spite of international outcry. How come Turkey remains a member of NATO? Erdogan's power grab is despicable, and the suffering of its people immense. How tolerant ought we be, while so much depravity is ongoing? That the international community remains powerless when any given country behaves this bad is a testament to our feebleness to demand respect for human rights. There must be a better way, where hypocrisy is banned, and the rule of law allowed to restore freedom and justice. But then again, what moral right do the United States have as an example of virtue when it is commanded by an unscrupulous and irresponsible bully who, rather than denouncing 'graft', is ready to congratulate the tyrants of the world, with whom he seems most comfortable?
80
"Power grab" is correct. He' like Putin in Russia. Whether he's in the role of prime minister or president the power lies with him same like Putin. When Russia attacked the country of Georgia in 2008 the president of Russia was conveniently on vacation on a cruise ship. So Prime Minister Putin was in charge even though technically the prime minister does not have that power.
Good letter.
Turkey is nowhere near the 'North Atlantic' in NAto.
Turkey remains a member of NATO only because it is the cork to keep the (at first Soviet, now) Russion Black Sea fleet bottled up.
Erdogan = Castro in the 1950's.
''I can take a chance of being voted out of office, or I can completely demolish democracy in my country and be everybody's tyrant for life. Easy decision!''
Every American administration has given up its moral authority over the Turkish government since WWII just to keep NATO bases there. I say it is time to give up hat real estate if we have to, in order to demand the people there keep their independence.
As with North Korea, perhaps it is time to drop pistols and clips of ammo over every house there.
3
The United States must make a choice between democratic values and continued relations with a NATO member who has long shunned Human Rights and the rule of law.
1
Turkey is not a friendly country, not a NATO ally, not an EU member or candidate, for at least the last 10 years. We have the worst "friends" and it's time to make our foreign policy in line with our friendships. India yes, Pakistan no. No to Saudi Arabia, no to Turkey. And all of South and Central America should be our friends, or at least warmly in our sphere of influence.
2
The US govt opposes Kurdish independence in large part due to deference to Turkish interests. The Kurds have proven themselves time & again our steadfast allies. Turkey, well...
Is there a whole middle part I'm missing?
4
The US holds the ultimate hammer, expulsion from NATO. If we had a competent president and administration, that is what we would pursue. Too bad we don’t.
11
The U.S., alone, can expel Turkey from NATO?
Erdogan is going to miss all those U.S. dollars associated with military aid and tourism. This man is not capable of coping with dissent of any kind and is rapidly devolving into a dictator.
3
What tourism are you talking about? The only tourists visiting Turkey are Russians and Arabs, it has been like that for the last 5-6 years. No Americans go to Turkey anyway, except for dual citizens that want to visit their families.
3
Obama, some 8 years ago, met with Erdogan in Ankara and expressed his hope that Turkey could join the EU. Fortunately the EU in Brussels told Obama to stay out of it. Also Christian Missionaries should stay out of such countries - same problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
2
I feel very sad for the Turkish people. Erdogan's takeover has been so transparent, like watching a horror movie where the characters choose the shed full of chainsaws instead of getting in the car and driving away.
1
It shouldn't come as a surprise that countries around the world are suspicious of Americans amongst them after all the coups and regime changes that have been instigated over the last 70 years by the CIA and State Department.
Kidnapping people around the world through extraordinary renditions, torture, and the suspension of habeas corpus hasn't exactly endured foreigners to the United States either.
If Americans knew how many CIA operatives are operating around the world, spreading cash around, living in 5star hotels and dining in fancy restaurants, on taxpayers money, all the while spreading mischief and chaos around them, I bet most Americans would be horrified and object to it.
Soon Americans will only be able to travel to western countries or countries where the US has installed a puppet regime, kind of like the Russians during the cold war where they could only travel to their satellite countries.
Innocent people always suffer the consequences of their rogue government's actions.
You reap what you sow.
11
None of this justifies what is currently happening in Turkey.
2
@ Brad Blumenstock
Maybe my English isn't as good as I thought it was, but nothing in my comment implies that I am justifying "what is currently happening in Turkey."
I am trying to provide some context to Americans that live in their corporate American media bubble where the narrative is always America=good, everyone else=bad.
But context and history matter, especially if you want to avoid repeating past mistakes.
2
We, our allies, and the U.N. should be considering sanctions against Turkey for this and other human rights violations.
3
The era of autocracy strikes again. We have our own wannabe autocrat who, as we all remember, has shown great sympathies to President Erdogan. I am sure that if this situation is even on his mind, the only thing that irritates President Trump is that he can't control his fellow autocrat and bend him to his will.
I am not sure what it will take for this particular era (autocracy) to fall away but I can't wait for that day to come.
3
Trumps conduct and reputation do have a very negative real world impact on Americans, as this report shows. It's hard to imagine that Turkey, a NATO ally, would have had the nerve to do this with any other President.
2
Isn't tourism a big component of the Turkish economy? If ordinary citizens began cancelling vacations, that would bring another sort of pressure to bear.
1
Trump has totally alienated ALL of our allies. Where diplomacy and diplomatic relations would have helped we the USA has no credibility in world.
We have military bases in Turkey are our troops even safe being stationed there given what is going on?
4
Jimmy Carter was ceaselessly excoriated by Republicans for failing to bring back the American hostages in Iran. Walter Cronkite every night counting off the days. How is it that Trump not only has failed to bring back our innocent citizens, but has complimented Erdogan and allowed him and his thugs to assault American citizens in our own streets? The outcry is long overdue.
14
We should rescue them if they worked for the US government either on the surface or underground. Otherwise, no one will spy for us in the future. If not working for us, then Turkish government should able to sort it out and determine the innocence of that person. Bottom line is that we shouldn't spend money and time to support opposition leaders in other country's business.
1
Regardless of whether these American citizens were involved in the attempted Turkish coup, this is a real dilemma for the Trump administration. How is The Tweeter in Chief going to deal with this? It should be Trump's goal to get back every citizen through negotiations with the Erdogan government. How will he do this? A really smart president would have already solved this problem. Unfortunately we didn't elect a really smart president.
4
Unless there is clear evidence that the Americans broke any Turkish laws, there is no justification for jailing Americans. If Turkey thinks holding Americans can be held as hostages then they need to be told in no uncertain terms that will not be acceptable and that they should release them immediately or else Americans will be encouraged by the state Department to boycott Turkey. until they stop the nonsense which included the recent violence by the embassy staff on protesters.
3
I travel quite often. I limit almost all my travels to western Europe. I recently decided not to go to Mexico although my son lives there. My point is that we expect to find due process wherever we travel as if it rides on our back. But it doesn't. The list of countries I'm willing to travel to is probably no longer than a dozen or so. Scandinavia, Western Europe, Canada, Israel, Australia, and Japan.
Americans take a huge risk anywhere else. I'm not at all saying that they deserve what they get elsewhere. We should do all we can to get them out. But the rest of us should be forewarned. It is more risky than you think and to say, "it won't happen to me" is just challenging fate.
2
Mexico is not holding American hostages on imaginary charges.
US tourist dollars are still welcome here and Americans are treated pretty well.
What you're afraid of is the cartels, which target each other and rarely bother ordinary people.
1
Turks elected this repressive explicitly Islamist regime and are now holding Americans as political prisoners. While at the same time the Kurds on whom we have depended to help fight ISIS, struggle for freedom from Turkey and Iraq. Yet it appears that the US is moving to leave the Kurds at the mercy of the Turks and Iraqis. This has the making of an historic poitical blunder that will haunt US policy for decades.
1
We cannot help them. Sad as that is, with our internal problems we can offer no help to any other nation at this time.
The dysfunction that repubs have caused our nation ends up causing real pain and in the long run, causing some lives to be lost in the process.
We get the government that we deserve. OK, some of us deserve. The rest of us have to watch our country lose its' values while we lose our democracy.
6
So NASA employee and American citizen, Serkan Golge, is arrested and held for spurious charges, and NASA places him on unpaid leave, causing his family to lose their house? Is that how US government agencies treat employees who are illegally detained by totalitarian regimes? This seems to be rather unfair on the part of the US government. At the least, this action is cold and unkind. I realize he wasn't there in any official capacity, but I'd expect more support from an entity of the government.
265
Fascist governments stick together.
4
@krw: What a funny comment. Sad that a few here will think you are serious. How is the weather the banks of the Volga today ?;
I am appalled and furious! Hard to comprehend that this is how our government treats top talent at one of its most prestigious institutions, which my taxes support. He is after all a cynically arrested political hostage in what was supposedly a friendly country; it' not like he negligently put himself in a precarious situation. Looks like we'll have to add Turkey to the list of travel advisories. Also seems like there's no security in being an American citizen--either abroad or at home.
1
Trump on Erdogan in September: "Frankly he’s getting very high marks... We have a great friendship and the countries -- I think we’re right now as close as we’ve ever been... a lot of that has to do with a personal relationship."
Trump speaks absolute rubbish.
232
Follow the money - that's all Trump cares about. From Wikipedia:
"Trump Towers Istanbul are two conjoined towers in Şişli, Istanbul, Turkey. ... The property developer is Turkish billionaire Aydın Doğan, in a license-partnership with American businessman and current United States President Donald Trump. The complex is considered to be one of the most prominent in Istanbul."
So why isn't there a complete ban on all American travel to Turkey?
217
Exactly! Does Trump have business interests in Turkey? That may be the answer, just like with his travel bans.
5
Probably for the same reason that while we have proclaimed support for democracies we have had no problem supporting right wing dictators throughout the world. If the Turkish government was a socialist one, you bet we'd have a ban.
3
At some point there will be. But meanwhile Erdogan is doing exactly what Trump wishes he could do to Americans.
3