Infrastructure bill would help start the charge for underground electrical wiring. Sadly, the powers that be including FPL will never let that happen. Antiquated pole wiring is good for their miserable outfit.
A big debate seems to have started over whether Florida power lines should be buried or just "nailed back onto the pole." The latter is much cheaper, of course, but those power lines are likely to get knocked down again by the next hurricane.
Here in SF, power lines are far more often buried in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets. In poor residential neighborhoods? Not so much. Have rate payers in buried-cable areas consented to pay higher rates, to cover the burying cost, or are ALL rate payers sharing the burying cost? (One thing it's fair to assume: The power company isn't bearing the cost.)
I don't know the answer to that question, but I hope rate-payers in poor residential neighborhoods aren't sharing the cost of burying power lines in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets -- where people tend to squawk more loudly to the power company about burying cables. I would like to think that power companies make cable-burying decisions on some basis other than "Who squawks th loudest?"
Here in SF, power lines are far more often buried in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets. In poor residential neighborhoods? Not so much. Have rate payers in buried-cable areas consented to pay higher rates, to cover the burying cost, or are ALL rate payers sharing the burying cost? (One thing it's fair to assume: The power company isn't bearing the cost.)
I don't know the answer to that question, but I hope rate-payers in poor residential neighborhoods aren't sharing the cost of burying power lines in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets -- where people tend to squawk more loudly to the power company about burying cables. I would like to think that power companies make cable-burying decisions on some basis other than "Who squawks th loudest?"
Commenters bernd bauer, miami, michjas phoenix, and I Larry Lundgren, Sweden would all like to know why the Florida power grid (Michjas phrase) is in such poor shape that millions are without power. Bauer and I note that in our European countries, Austria and Sweden, all utility lines are underground. He and I also note that in his experience in Florida and in mine throughout New England and Albany, NY, we see tangles of utility lines that we simply would not expect to see in these areas in the 21st century.
So far no reader has shown any interest in our observations. We rely on you the comment writers since no Times journalist even mentions the subject.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
So far no reader has shown any interest in our observations. We rely on you the comment writers since no Times journalist even mentions the subject.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Why ?
Because the US has been hijacked by the irrational right that can't find the money for infrastructure because they won't tax the mega rich .
Great system huh ? Ridiculous
Because the US has been hijacked by the irrational right that can't find the money for infrastructure because they won't tax the mega rich .
Great system huh ? Ridiculous
1
Bury power cables or just nail them back onto the pole?
Obviously the latter is cheaper, but those power cables are more likely to get knocked down again when the next hurricane hits.
One thing for sure: Power companies aren't going to bury cables unless they can pass the cost onto rate payers. How widely they can spread that cost is an important question, and the answer may depend on the extent of rate-payer consent. Here in SF, for example, power cables are buried in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets far more often than they are buried in poor residential neighborhoods.
Are power cables buried more often in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets because rate-payers in buried-cable areas have agreed to pay higher rates to the power companies, or are rate-payers in poor residential neighborhoods (where power cables are buried less often) subsidizing cable-burying for rate-payers in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets (where people tend to squawk more about unburied cables)?
I hope it's not the latter, but I'll confess that I have my doubts.
Obviously the latter is cheaper, but those power cables are more likely to get knocked down again when the next hurricane hits.
One thing for sure: Power companies aren't going to bury cables unless they can pass the cost onto rate payers. How widely they can spread that cost is an important question, and the answer may depend on the extent of rate-payer consent. Here in SF, for example, power cables are buried in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets far more often than they are buried in poor residential neighborhoods.
Are power cables buried more often in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets because rate-payers in buried-cable areas have agreed to pay higher rates to the power companies, or are rate-payers in poor residential neighborhoods (where power cables are buried less often) subsidizing cable-burying for rate-payers in wealthy residential neighborhoods and on commercial streets (where people tend to squawk more about unburied cables)?
I hope it's not the latter, but I'll confess that I have my doubts.
I grew up in Austria. We paty more for power there than here in Florida but most of the urban cables are all underground, and no 4 houses on a transformer kind of grid. Power outages there even after ice rains an hurricane force winter storms our very rare. I do not believe that nailing the cables back on the pole over and over again is cheaper than getting the infrastructure right once and for good. same with comcast, neighborhoods look like spider webs with black internet cables everywhere. no wonder everybody is out when the first trees fall in a storm. Plain insanity doing this over and over again.
3
@ bernd bauer miami - exactly what I wrote in my longer comment using Sweden. At least two of us commenters note that there is absolutely nothing about the reasons for the statewide power outage, not a word.
So in my comment I ask readers who know Florida to tell us what the Times reporters do not. As for neighborhoods in the US, I note that when I am in Albany in an area of middle-class and up homes the networks of utility lines are unbelievable, all with giant trees hanging over them.
But as I also now note almost every time, the mindset in the USA - choose our group - is fundamentally different than in my SE.
Just realized you are the reader I am looking for. Could you provide more info about Miami utility lines and failures. Here or to my Gmail at my blog. Better yet add a new comment providing details.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
So in my comment I ask readers who know Florida to tell us what the Times reporters do not. As for neighborhoods in the US, I note that when I am in Albany in an area of middle-class and up homes the networks of utility lines are unbelievable, all with giant trees hanging over them.
But as I also now note almost every time, the mindset in the USA - choose our group - is fundamentally different than in my SE.
Just realized you are the reader I am looking for. Could you provide more info about Miami utility lines and failures. Here or to my Gmail at my blog. Better yet add a new comment providing details.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
EXACTLY
the power from Sandy went out from trees knocking down cables .
Welcome to the USA , where Republicans still don't want to spend money on infrastructure. Its embarrassing already .
the power from Sandy went out from trees knocking down cables .
Welcome to the USA , where Republicans still don't want to spend money on infrastructure. Its embarrassing already .
1
Several commenters have expressed skepticism about the indisputable assertion that the last decade or so has been very mild, hurricane-wise. Not just "very mild," in fact, but record-mild.
A couple have asked: What about Sandy and Katrina? Here are the answers (and remember: I'm just reporting the facts here; you can look all this up for yourself): (1) Sandy was a pretty mild storm (Wikipedia says it was a "2"); and (2) Katrina may seem like yesterday, but it was actually 12 years ago (2005); it was a "3," but it was quite a long time ago.
Per the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, until Harvey and Irma hit, there were zero Category 3 or above storms to hit the US this decade, the lowest ever (at least back to 1900, when the NOAA chart began). A number of commenters have insisted there were several recent "superstorms" (always unnamed, of course) but those superstorms somehow escaped the attention of NOAA. It's apparently got an unhealthy fixation on reality, and thus is under the impression that the last decade or so has been record-mild, hurricane-wise. Predictions are that that will change this season, and Harvey and Irma suggest it will. But that doesn't change the past.
A couple have asked: What about Sandy and Katrina? Here are the answers (and remember: I'm just reporting the facts here; you can look all this up for yourself): (1) Sandy was a pretty mild storm (Wikipedia says it was a "2"); and (2) Katrina may seem like yesterday, but it was actually 12 years ago (2005); it was a "3," but it was quite a long time ago.
Per the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, until Harvey and Irma hit, there were zero Category 3 or above storms to hit the US this decade, the lowest ever (at least back to 1900, when the NOAA chart began). A number of commenters have insisted there were several recent "superstorms" (always unnamed, of course) but those superstorms somehow escaped the attention of NOAA. It's apparently got an unhealthy fixation on reality, and thus is under the impression that the last decade or so has been record-mild, hurricane-wise. Predictions are that that will change this season, and Harvey and Irma suggest it will. But that doesn't change the past.
1
Ok Mr . Three Cents ,
Here are the Climate change FACTS
Fact: The water temperatures have been rising steadily rising since 1975
Fact : with the rising water temperatures there has been a steady and consistent increase in rainfall
Fact : Higher water temperatures increase storm severity
Fact : climate change is occurring as evidenced by the melting of the polar ice caps and consistent higher water and air temperatures
Conclusion : due to climate change ,storms will be worse than they would have normally been and will be accompanied by more rain . More rain in general during normal storms will increase flooding
Fact : The category assigned to a hurricane is determined by WIND SPEED not amount of rainfall . The reason for the devastation in Houston was flooding from extreme rainfall , not wind strength . Storm surge is what causes most and death damage , not category number .
Katrina's devastation was caused by the levees breaking from rainfall not from the category number of the storm. Everybody knows that.
The corps of Army engineers has named thousands and thousands of bridges , dams , levees that are below standard and in desperate need of repair . Those structures will be in more jeopardy due to more rainfall . Yet republicans refuse to spend money on infrastructure and still deny climate change.
Your analysis in determining the severity of storms by their category number is flawed as is your apparent intended argument.
Here are the Climate change FACTS
Fact: The water temperatures have been rising steadily rising since 1975
Fact : with the rising water temperatures there has been a steady and consistent increase in rainfall
Fact : Higher water temperatures increase storm severity
Fact : climate change is occurring as evidenced by the melting of the polar ice caps and consistent higher water and air temperatures
Conclusion : due to climate change ,storms will be worse than they would have normally been and will be accompanied by more rain . More rain in general during normal storms will increase flooding
Fact : The category assigned to a hurricane is determined by WIND SPEED not amount of rainfall . The reason for the devastation in Houston was flooding from extreme rainfall , not wind strength . Storm surge is what causes most and death damage , not category number .
Katrina's devastation was caused by the levees breaking from rainfall not from the category number of the storm. Everybody knows that.
The corps of Army engineers has named thousands and thousands of bridges , dams , levees that are below standard and in desperate need of repair . Those structures will be in more jeopardy due to more rainfall . Yet republicans refuse to spend money on infrastructure and still deny climate change.
Your analysis in determining the severity of storms by their category number is flawed as is your apparent intended argument.
1
Might it be wiser to go back to Houston and pick up with Harvey coverage again? The reality of Irma is that it was a devastating hurricane when it passed through the Caribbean and Cuba, and a strong storm when it hit Florida, but very far from a major hurricane when it got here. Many trees got knocked down and power is out in many places (even water in a few places), but let's get real here for just a few seconds: Irma was NOT the "Big One" for Florida, or anything close to it. The hurricane season has a long way to go, and it's expected to be worse than usual this year, but Irma was NOT it. Let's stop trying to pretend otherwise. Send those breathless TV newscasters back to Houston -- better yet, send them to the Caribbean, where Irma WAS a big deal.
1
Agree:
"It is very disturbing to see looters taking advantage of this hurricane..."
I'd been worried that looters would target the mandatory-evacuation areas, knowing the residents were all gone. But a friend in Sarasota tells me the police are paying special attention to those areas, keeping the "bad guys" away while the residents are gone. I doubt the police are able to stop looting entirely (especially since they've got a lot of other things to do these days), but it's good to hear they're watching these areas especially carefully. It would be very disappointing to come home, find your house is undamaged, but then go inside and find out your TV, laptop and jewelry are all missing.
"It is very disturbing to see looters taking advantage of this hurricane..."
I'd been worried that looters would target the mandatory-evacuation areas, knowing the residents were all gone. But a friend in Sarasota tells me the police are paying special attention to those areas, keeping the "bad guys" away while the residents are gone. I doubt the police are able to stop looting entirely (especially since they've got a lot of other things to do these days), but it's good to hear they're watching these areas especially carefully. It would be very disappointing to come home, find your house is undamaged, but then go inside and find out your TV, laptop and jewelry are all missing.
Over here on the other side of the Atlantic we read daily in the Times and elsewhere that millions of households and therefore even a larger number of individuals are without power.
Except for the phrase "downed power lines" in this article, nowhere have I seen if the general exlanation for being without power is downed power lines or something more fundamental.
If any reader knows, please tell me more. I raise the question with recent articles about the Netherlands' preparation to deal with flooding in mind and also the fact that here in Sweden utility lines are all underground. Even far out into the wheat country and large scale dairy farms north of Linköping, utility lines are underground. In addition, large dairy farms have their own very large wind turbines and solar installations that provide electricity even if high-voltage transmission lines are down. Even many apartment complexes have large-scale solar.
It seems to me that there should be some reporting on the reasons for power failure. I know that every time I visit Albany, NY, for example - once or twice a year - I can hardly believe the array of utility wires that I see. Never been in Florida!
Would appreciate any information or thoughts here or at my Gmail see blog.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Except for the phrase "downed power lines" in this article, nowhere have I seen if the general exlanation for being without power is downed power lines or something more fundamental.
If any reader knows, please tell me more. I raise the question with recent articles about the Netherlands' preparation to deal with flooding in mind and also the fact that here in Sweden utility lines are all underground. Even far out into the wheat country and large scale dairy farms north of Linköping, utility lines are underground. In addition, large dairy farms have their own very large wind turbines and solar installations that provide electricity even if high-voltage transmission lines are down. Even many apartment complexes have large-scale solar.
It seems to me that there should be some reporting on the reasons for power failure. I know that every time I visit Albany, NY, for example - once or twice a year - I can hardly believe the array of utility wires that I see. Never been in Florida!
Would appreciate any information or thoughts here or at my Gmail see blog.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
1
Larry from Sweden ,
I don't know about Florida , I do know about New Jersey . I would venture to say that it's probably the same in FL . All the power lines are above ground .
We are living in the 1950's here . Why ? Because Reagan started this reckless line of " the government is the problem " and " trickle down economics " giving the wealthiest huge tax BREAKS in the theory that it would stimulate the economy . Wrong . And Republicans won't spend two cents on infrastructure. Because our Congressional districts are gerrymandered Repubs have the overwhelming edge in the House of Representatives so even with a Democratic President nothing will get done . Hopefully Trump will work with some Dems to spend on infrastructure , but if not , you can expect more of the same . It's ridiculous.
Many here in the US are sick of the nonsensical Republican talking points that do not represent the majority of the public . In poll after poll people want the rich taxed to pre - Reagan levels at least in order to pay for things like much needed
Infrastructure .
The US is no longer the beacon of
so called " exceptionalism " that we ever once were , if we were at all .
Maybe here in NJ when we most likely will get a Democratic Governor in November along with a Dem NJ Assembly that just might be something I'll write my state lawmakers about ( even though I live in a Republican district , ugh ) .
I don't know about Florida , I do know about New Jersey . I would venture to say that it's probably the same in FL . All the power lines are above ground .
We are living in the 1950's here . Why ? Because Reagan started this reckless line of " the government is the problem " and " trickle down economics " giving the wealthiest huge tax BREAKS in the theory that it would stimulate the economy . Wrong . And Republicans won't spend two cents on infrastructure. Because our Congressional districts are gerrymandered Repubs have the overwhelming edge in the House of Representatives so even with a Democratic President nothing will get done . Hopefully Trump will work with some Dems to spend on infrastructure , but if not , you can expect more of the same . It's ridiculous.
Many here in the US are sick of the nonsensical Republican talking points that do not represent the majority of the public . In poll after poll people want the rich taxed to pre - Reagan levels at least in order to pay for things like much needed
Infrastructure .
The US is no longer the beacon of
so called " exceptionalism " that we ever once were , if we were at all .
Maybe here in NJ when we most likely will get a Democratic Governor in November along with a Dem NJ Assembly that just might be something I'll write my state lawmakers about ( even though I live in a Republican district , ugh ) .
1
But how can we doubt 20-30 years predictions? We must believe.
It is very disturbing to see looters taking advantage of this hurricane to help themselves to free merchandise like those who stole from the shoe store in Fort Lauderdale. There were also reports of looting in the Miami-Dade area. I hope that when they catch these thieves that they punish them to the fullest extent of the law. A very good punishment in addition to jail time would be for these hoodlums to become involved in the cleanup of the aftermath. Some good hard labor is what they deserve.
Honestly, people have their homes and lives destroyed and your first thought is to worry about a worthless shoe store?
Wow.
FYI, stores are insured. They will be made whole again. The desperate people in FL who are too poor to rebuild, will never be made whole again.
Wow.
FYI, stores are insured. They will be made whole again. The desperate people in FL who are too poor to rebuild, will never be made whole again.
1
Two plagues down, eight to go deniers.
1
During the Fri,Sat, Sun storm, at least 90 people were shot dead throughour our country. Next weekend there wont be another hurricane, but there will be another 90 Americans dead by gunshot. And so forth for every weekend this year, to the tune of 4500+ men, women and children. That seems newsworthy too.
5
"Who in his right mind would want beach front property? And pay a premium price for if ?"
Apparently many people do. As I understand it, beachfront property prices have been rising faster than average for quite some time.
Apparently many people do. As I understand it, beachfront property prices have been rising faster than average for quite some time.
1
"In retrospect the whole thing seems to have been "overblown'."
Irma wasn't overblown for Caribbean islands and Cuba, though it certainly was for the US. (Even so, there WERE high winds and heavy rains in many parts of Florida, and electricity and water are still out in many areas.)
But people who live in hurricane areas probably needed a wake-up call. Before Harvey hit Texas and Irma hit Florida, it had been a very long time since any major storm had hit the US. People who live in hurricane areas might well have been getting complacent. Irma may not have been what was expected, but there will be other hurricanes down the pike, and the worry about Irma may induce people to prepare better for the next one.
Irma wasn't overblown for Caribbean islands and Cuba, though it certainly was for the US. (Even so, there WERE high winds and heavy rains in many parts of Florida, and electricity and water are still out in many areas.)
But people who live in hurricane areas probably needed a wake-up call. Before Harvey hit Texas and Irma hit Florida, it had been a very long time since any major storm had hit the US. People who live in hurricane areas might well have been getting complacent. Irma may not have been what was expected, but there will be other hurricanes down the pike, and the worry about Irma may induce people to prepare better for the next one.
5
" But people in Hurricane prone areas probably needed a wake up call.Before Harvey hit Texas and Irma hit Florida,it has been a very long time
since any major storm had hit the U.S.
Really ?! What about Sandy hit the U.S. less than five years ago. I would not consider 4 years and 11 months to be a "very long time." Have you forgotten Katrina ,as well?
since any major storm had hit the U.S.
Really ?! What about Sandy hit the U.S. less than five years ago. I would not consider 4 years and 11 months to be a "very long time." Have you forgotten Katrina ,as well?
1
DJS,
I'm just reporting what the NOAA graph showed. I'll leave it to you to check NOAA yourself, but my hunch is you'll find that (1) Sandy was a pretty mild storm (Wikipedia says it was a "2"); and (2) Katrina may seem like yesterday, but it was actually 12 years ago (2005); it was a "3," but it was quite a long time ago.
Per the NOAA chart, until Harvey and Irma, there were zero Category 3 or above storms to hit the US this decade, the lowest ever (at least back to 1900, where the chart began). A number of commenters have written about various recent "superstorms" (always unnamed) but those superstorms somehow escaped the attention of NOAA. It's apparently got an unhealthy fixation on reality, and thus is under the impression that the last decade or so has been record-mild, hurricane-wise. Predictions are that that will change this season, and Harvey and Irma suggest it will. But that doesn't change the past.
I'm just reporting what the NOAA graph showed. I'll leave it to you to check NOAA yourself, but my hunch is you'll find that (1) Sandy was a pretty mild storm (Wikipedia says it was a "2"); and (2) Katrina may seem like yesterday, but it was actually 12 years ago (2005); it was a "3," but it was quite a long time ago.
Per the NOAA chart, until Harvey and Irma, there were zero Category 3 or above storms to hit the US this decade, the lowest ever (at least back to 1900, where the chart began). A number of commenters have written about various recent "superstorms" (always unnamed) but those superstorms somehow escaped the attention of NOAA. It's apparently got an unhealthy fixation on reality, and thus is under the impression that the last decade or so has been record-mild, hurricane-wise. Predictions are that that will change this season, and Harvey and Irma suggest it will. But that doesn't change the past.
As in Puerto Rico, the worst damage in Florida appears to be power outages. With regard to Puerto Rico, the Times reported that "The storm knocked out Puerto Rico’s fragile power grid, exposing the island’s decrepit infrastructure and raising questions about its future viability." The Times also reported that "much of Florida’s infrastructure is now nearing the end of its useful life." and that Irma would be a test.
I expected to read here that the failure of Florida's power grid exposed its decrepit state and was a miserable failure of a major test. But nothing of the sort appears here. Go figure.
I expected to read here that the failure of Florida's power grid exposed its decrepit state and was a miserable failure of a major test. But nothing of the sort appears here. Go figure.
3
@ Michael Phoenix - my comment a few above yours says the same thing. Why is there nothing about that part of the infrastructure?
Only-Never in Sweden.Blogspot.com
Only-Never in Sweden.Blogspot.com
Who in his right mind would want beach front property? And pay a premium price for if ??
3
"Who in his right mind" would kick Hurricane Victims when they are already on the ground?
3
Ten kajillion dollars, I hear!
"how much is trump getting?"
Seriously, I don't know what you're referring to. Can you explain, or do you think it's best that you leave it vague?
"how much is trump getting?"
Seriously, I don't know what you're referring to. Can you explain, or do you think it's best that you leave it vague?
2
For those of us, secure in our areas from Hurricane ERMA, we owe a great debt of gratitude and thanks to the many BRAVE weather/news reporters who brought us up-to-date with their many dangerous reporting feats. So many of us suffered through the sadness. My sincere thanks to the aforementioned men and women who managed to secure in-depth information and to share it.
6
"We owe a debt of gratitude to the many BRAVE weather/news reporters who brought us up to date with their many dangerous reporting feats."
The key word in that sentence is DANGEROUS.
First responders who go out in storms to RESCUE people and pets are BRAVE.
Firefighters who go into burning buildings are brave. Men and woman
who fight to defend our country are brave.
Going out in a hurricane to report news is dangerous and irresponsible.
The key word in that sentence is DANGEROUS.
First responders who go out in storms to RESCUE people and pets are BRAVE.
Firefighters who go into burning buildings are brave. Men and woman
who fight to defend our country are brave.
Going out in a hurricane to report news is dangerous and irresponsible.
1
Oliver writes:
"Statistically much less people get murdered and die in a traffic accident during a major storm event compared to non-storm 'peaceful' days."
I haven't seen the statistics, but the incidence of traffic accidents usually reflects traffic level -- which was very high because of the ordered evacuations. On the other hand, accidents that occur during stop-and-go traffic jams usually don't result in serious injuries.
My friend in Sarasota says the "bad guys" come out in force during natural disasters, which is hardly surprising. I'd wondered whether they might pillage evacuated homes, but my friend says the police are watching evacuated areas carefully to prevent that -- or at least to reduce it. Whew!
"Statistically much less people get murdered and die in a traffic accident during a major storm event compared to non-storm 'peaceful' days."
I haven't seen the statistics, but the incidence of traffic accidents usually reflects traffic level -- which was very high because of the ordered evacuations. On the other hand, accidents that occur during stop-and-go traffic jams usually don't result in serious injuries.
My friend in Sarasota says the "bad guys" come out in force during natural disasters, which is hardly surprising. I'd wondered whether they might pillage evacuated homes, but my friend says the police are watching evacuated areas carefully to prevent that -- or at least to reduce it. Whew!
1
"I would like to see the banking industry refuse to give mortgages to developments on barrier islands and floodplains. I would like to see insurance companies not write policies on the same."
Lenders out here in San Francisco DO require flood insurance if the home in question is at risk of a flood. Indeed, my lender almost refused to make my mortgage loan for that reason, until I pointed out that my house is on top of a very high hill that probably hasn't seen a flood since dinosaurs roamed the Earth.
California also has a law that requires every insurance company to offer earthquake coverage to policy holders once each year. I get a letter every year from my insurance company, but I just throw them away unopened. Premiums are sky-high, as are deductibles, and coverage is capped at a pretty low number. Besides, most "regular" policies cover many of the "earthquake" losses, notably losses due to fire caused by the earthquake. My house made it through the 1989 quake with just a few minor cracks in the paint, and so, like 99.9% of other Californians, I've decided to just take my chances.
Lenders out here in San Francisco DO require flood insurance if the home in question is at risk of a flood. Indeed, my lender almost refused to make my mortgage loan for that reason, until I pointed out that my house is on top of a very high hill that probably hasn't seen a flood since dinosaurs roamed the Earth.
California also has a law that requires every insurance company to offer earthquake coverage to policy holders once each year. I get a letter every year from my insurance company, but I just throw them away unopened. Premiums are sky-high, as are deductibles, and coverage is capped at a pretty low number. Besides, most "regular" policies cover many of the "earthquake" losses, notably losses due to fire caused by the earthquake. My house made it through the 1989 quake with just a few minor cracks in the paint, and so, like 99.9% of other Californians, I've decided to just take my chances.
3
" And so, like 99.9% of Californians,I've decided to just take my chances "- and leave taxpayers to pick up the tab in the event of a catastrophic earthquake.
2
DJS,
Not sure what you mean (or even whether YOU know what you mean). I don't anticipate asking taxpayers to pick up the tab if something happens.
Not sure what you mean (or even whether YOU know what you mean). I don't anticipate asking taxpayers to pick up the tab if something happens.
1
Ironic that many Florida residents have the OPPOSITE complaint now:
"When Sandy hit and we lost power it wasn't the food that was the worst part it was the heat being off . I remember after a week my house was 45 degrees and getting colder ."
My friend in Sarasota says he's dreading going to bed tonight because the power is out and that means no air conditioning. In other words, while you were too cold after Sandy, he's too hot after Irma. I guess you're both dependent on electricity.
Out here in San Francisco, by the way, most homes don't have air conditioning, since we have only a few days each year when it might be useful. We do have furnaces, though we often go weeks at a time without ours turned on.
"When Sandy hit and we lost power it wasn't the food that was the worst part it was the heat being off . I remember after a week my house was 45 degrees and getting colder ."
My friend in Sarasota says he's dreading going to bed tonight because the power is out and that means no air conditioning. In other words, while you were too cold after Sandy, he's too hot after Irma. I guess you're both dependent on electricity.
Out here in San Francisco, by the way, most homes don't have air conditioning, since we have only a few days each year when it might be useful. We do have furnaces, though we often go weeks at a time without ours turned on.
1
Dear three cents ,
Yeah , the Sandy comment was me .
Ofcourse we depend on electricity . The gas furnace is run by electricity.
I don't see what your point was .
Yeah , the Sandy comment was me .
Ofcourse we depend on electricity . The gas furnace is run by electricity.
I don't see what your point was .
2
"I guess you're both dependent on electricity."
You wrote your comment on some device that was powered by electricity.
Unless you are sitting in the dark, you're dependent on electricity.
You wrote your comment on some device that was powered by electricity.
Unless you are sitting in the dark, you're dependent on electricity.
1
EXACTLY my point to Mr. My Three cents .
We are all dependent on electricity and don't realize how much until it is out .
We are all dependent on electricity and don't realize how much until it is out .
1
I am a strong supporter of Rick Scott. America needs more like him.
4
SB, I am always glad to see your categorical and unequivocal opinions. I do not, however, agree with you. Your "no ifs-ands-or-buts" approach appears (to me, at least) to be an expression of a siege mentality, in terms of which you feel a sense of obligation to be unwavering. I would suggest that such unwavering commitment is an obstacle to learning.
3
@otherwise:
Thank you, I appreciate your opinion, too. I believe Americans must take a stand on the issues, whether we agree or not. I once had a more liberal perspective but I don't agree with the direction liberalism has taken over the years, so I have moved right.
Thank you, I appreciate your opinion, too. I believe Americans must take a stand on the issues, whether we agree or not. I once had a more liberal perspective but I don't agree with the direction liberalism has taken over the years, so I have moved right.
2
"We need to keep covering Irma in the Virgin Islands ... We need to understand what it sounds like to have your roof lifted off by 185 mph sustained winds; what it feels like to be unable to find your child...this is our future if we do not seize this moment. ... Let us heed Irma's call."
Indeed, the frequency and severity of hurricanes has been so low over the past decade or so that I worry that people living in hurricane areas may be getting complacent. This hurricane season was predicted to be worse than normal, and people outside the US (including the Virgin Islands) did NOT dodge the bullet. Harvey and Irma are probably a wake-up call to most people who live in hurricane areas; I hope so.
(I can't claim to walk the walk, though: I've been promising myself since the 1989 earthquake here that I'll set aside some emergency provisions in my garage to prepare for the next "Big One," but I've put that off for 28 years so far.)
Indeed, the frequency and severity of hurricanes has been so low over the past decade or so that I worry that people living in hurricane areas may be getting complacent. This hurricane season was predicted to be worse than normal, and people outside the US (including the Virgin Islands) did NOT dodge the bullet. Harvey and Irma are probably a wake-up call to most people who live in hurricane areas; I hope so.
(I can't claim to walk the walk, though: I've been promising myself since the 1989 earthquake here that I'll set aside some emergency provisions in my garage to prepare for the next "Big One," but I've put that off for 28 years so far.)
I would like to see the banking industry refuse to give mortgages to developments on barrier islands and floodplains. I would like to see insurance companies not write policies on the same. I would like to see building codes that protect against environmental realities. I would like to see architects design the same. I would like to see less fear in our elected officials.
6
The barrier island off the New Jersey coast doesn't need banks, it has the Mob.
Not sure what superstorms you're referring to:
"Is it just coincidence that we continue to have these monster 'superstorms'?'
The decade's still not over, but according to the NOAA, Harvey and Irma are the first storms of Category 3 or above to hit the US during the present decade (Sandy reportedly wasn't even a "1"). The previous decade was pretty high, but it was matched by 1910 and 1950, and the 1940 decade was highest of all.
What "superstorms" are you thinking of? Maybe they should be listed in the NOAA graph.
"Is it just coincidence that we continue to have these monster 'superstorms'?'
The decade's still not over, but according to the NOAA, Harvey and Irma are the first storms of Category 3 or above to hit the US during the present decade (Sandy reportedly wasn't even a "1"). The previous decade was pretty high, but it was matched by 1910 and 1950, and the 1940 decade was highest of all.
What "superstorms" are you thinking of? Maybe they should be listed in the NOAA graph.
1
Another commenter writes:
"I have been without 'power' (see Gregory Corso) for seventy-seven years."
I have to admit that I'm "hooked" on electricity. But for most of human existence, people have done without it. Not pleasant, but hardly the end of the world.
"I have been without 'power' (see Gregory Corso) for seventy-seven years."
I have to admit that I'm "hooked" on electricity. But for most of human existence, people have done without it. Not pleasant, but hardly the end of the world.
3
how much is trump getting? he has already collected many times his property value from tax dollars. taxes that he does not party.
1
Just talked to my friend in Sarasota. His power is still out, which means no TV, Internet or air conditioning, but he's hanging in there. The storm is long gone, but its effects are still being felt.
Interesting graph in the Wall Street Journal, purportedly based on data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. It shows, by decade, going back to 1900, the incidence of Category 3, 4 and 5 storms making landfall in the US. The highest was the decade beginning in 1940, followed closely by the decades beginning in 1910, 1950 and 2000. This decade, of course, was extremely low (nil, in fact, until Harvey and Irma came along), but the decade's not over yet. I didn't (and wouldn't) mention this to my friend, but I wonder whether some Floridians have become complacent. He said earlier that he remembers well the "old days," before what he said has been a 10-year absence of big storms hitting Florida, and speculates that the "newbies" got more nervous this time precisely because they DON'T remember those old days (his wife, for example, is from northern Georgia and had never before lived through a big storm, even though she's lived in Sarasota for about a decade).
My understanding is that this hurricane season is expected to break the trend, to be rougher than normal. It's hard to predict hurricanes, of course (and even hard to predict their path once they develop, as we learned this weekend), but I doubt Florida is "out of the woods" yet.
Interesting graph in the Wall Street Journal, purportedly based on data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. It shows, by decade, going back to 1900, the incidence of Category 3, 4 and 5 storms making landfall in the US. The highest was the decade beginning in 1940, followed closely by the decades beginning in 1910, 1950 and 2000. This decade, of course, was extremely low (nil, in fact, until Harvey and Irma came along), but the decade's not over yet. I didn't (and wouldn't) mention this to my friend, but I wonder whether some Floridians have become complacent. He said earlier that he remembers well the "old days," before what he said has been a 10-year absence of big storms hitting Florida, and speculates that the "newbies" got more nervous this time precisely because they DON'T remember those old days (his wife, for example, is from northern Georgia and had never before lived through a big storm, even though she's lived in Sarasota for about a decade).
My understanding is that this hurricane season is expected to break the trend, to be rougher than normal. It's hard to predict hurricanes, of course (and even hard to predict their path once they develop, as we learned this weekend), but I doubt Florida is "out of the woods" yet.
4
Irma is sputtering, thank goodness. Comments that it wasn’t as bad as expected reflect myopia about the scope of the damage to the US. Irma was an historic direct hit on St. Thomas and St. John, where thousands of US citizens live and many more visit. She struck as a Category 5, the strongest Atlantic storm ever recorded. Yet as Irma barreled towards Florida, no network returned to the devastation on St. Thomas and St. John. We need to keep covering Irma in the Virgin Islands out of respect: because their tragedies are not less important than ours. We need to keep talking about Irma there because they need our financial support and our tourist dollars, now and in the months to come. And we need to keep asking for their stories because they have experience that we do not. We need to understand what it sounds like to have your roof lifted off by 185 mph sustained winds; what it feels like to be unable to find your child; or to see your workplace and economy destroyed, because this is our future if we do not seize this moment. We need to get proximate with the details of this storm so that we can know in our bodies the urgency of driving innovation away from fossil fuels as we are fully capable of doing, and catalyzing a change in US policy. Let us return again and again to St. Thomas and St. John, to their courageous and resilient people, to their spectacular beaches, and to the extraordinary devastation they are in the midst of now. Let us heed Irma's call.
27
We survived Irma in Tampa. We're all out picking up leaves and branches. Thank you all for the prayers....
6
I don't like that Republicans are working to take away our rights and prerogatives while we have a major storm and barely anything else is getting reported or discussed. I am burnt out on coverage.
What have Republicans been doing to ruin our lives and our health as all of this coverage on mainland Florida has been taking place? I learned today they are secretly crafting a tax plan--McConnell and House Republicans are holed up plotting and planning. Even John McCain came out to say Wat Up
What have Republicans been doing to ruin our lives and our health as all of this coverage on mainland Florida has been taking place? I learned today they are secretly crafting a tax plan--McConnell and House Republicans are holed up plotting and planning. Even John McCain came out to say Wat Up
7
There is a weird irritating truth about storms like Harvey and Irma.
While everyone talks about the disaster and the killing winds - both storms actually save lives!
Statistically much less people get murdered and die in a traffic accident during a major storm event compared to non-storm "peaceful" days.
The unfortunate truth of reality: storms save lives.
4 victims in Florida - versus an average of 8 "regular" traffic deaths per day. And also the murder rate drops drastically - as people are busy with "outer" threats.
While everyone talks about the disaster and the killing winds - both storms actually save lives!
Statistically much less people get murdered and die in a traffic accident during a major storm event compared to non-storm "peaceful" days.
The unfortunate truth of reality: storms save lives.
4 victims in Florida - versus an average of 8 "regular" traffic deaths per day. And also the murder rate drops drastically - as people are busy with "outer" threats.
5
I'm wondering if Gov Scott will accept Hydro Quebec's offer of crews and trucks or will he just ask for prayers like Texas did.
5
@Dappper, i was raised roman catholic as most of my native Austria, but i don't like to see the people who should run the country sit down and pray as their best shot. Let us pray they should have a clue what to do. And looking at Trump and his cabinet at a staged photo op prayer makes me sick. nothing real there, all fake and for the "ratings"
That's not 6 million people. That is 6.7 million customers. A customer is a home or business. NANOG estimates that 59% of Florida's power customers are affected, so that may be closer to 12 million of Florida's approximately 20 million people!
Hopefully power can be restored soon, so pumps, fridges, and AC can get back online for the hard-hit communities.
Hopefully power can be restored soon, so pumps, fridges, and AC can get back online for the hard-hit communities.
5
The state of our environment is frightening.
Of course there would always be natural disasters even without climate change but how strong and destructive would they be is the question . Is it just coincidence that we continue to have these monster " superstorms" ?
Aside from the financial aspect , it's traumatizing for people . When Sandy hit and we lost power it wasn't the food that was the worst part it was the heat being off . I remember after a week my house was 45 degrees and getting colder . Luckily I was able to get a train ticket to family in DC but it was all a harrowing experience . And very frightening.
This is what the scientists said would happen and it's happening.
Of course there would always be natural disasters even without climate change but how strong and destructive would they be is the question . Is it just coincidence that we continue to have these monster " superstorms" ?
Aside from the financial aspect , it's traumatizing for people . When Sandy hit and we lost power it wasn't the food that was the worst part it was the heat being off . I remember after a week my house was 45 degrees and getting colder . Luckily I was able to get a train ticket to family in DC but it was all a harrowing experience . And very frightening.
This is what the scientists said would happen and it's happening.
6
What's happened to Americans? The meanness pointed in every direction from people whose lives are going on just fine, and who have zero to gain by casting aspersions and sour comments around. This hurricane is one of the many troubles life has in it, and your town or state could be next, or your family perhaps, or you yourself. And I'd hope to help you without hurting you more or calling you names for it. You'd think we were at war, in a Great Depression, or mentally ill the way that kindness and generosity have died out in the face of constant carping and lack of care for our fellow human beings.
I have been a liberal for decades, as for a time it was the place for people who were capable of putting human welfare over money or greed. It was a place where you could have your religion, or none, without disparagement or bile being cast upon you. It was a place where fairness mattered more than hating whole races, religions, or yes, regions and states with all kinds of people. And now? It's complaints all round, a snarl or sneer for every occasion, and on the left as well as the right, as if we are mirror images of that intolerance and blame-casting. Too bad for America, the people have forgotten that we're in this together, that we can disagree and be different, that we can have need, and still be friends. Spare me the many "reasons" for your meanness, friends. I won't be back.
I have been a liberal for decades, as for a time it was the place for people who were capable of putting human welfare over money or greed. It was a place where you could have your religion, or none, without disparagement or bile being cast upon you. It was a place where fairness mattered more than hating whole races, religions, or yes, regions and states with all kinds of people. And now? It's complaints all round, a snarl or sneer for every occasion, and on the left as well as the right, as if we are mirror images of that intolerance and blame-casting. Too bad for America, the people have forgotten that we're in this together, that we can disagree and be different, that we can have need, and still be friends. Spare me the many "reasons" for your meanness, friends. I won't be back.
21
You're blaming the wrong people for the lack of civility. Have you heard the President and politicians lately on the right? They are the source of the lack of kindness, not liberals. They are the source for denying climate change and any action on mitigating damages to the tune of millions of lives lost. I call that homicide. You want me to be kind to these people? Wake up.
2
Well I agree with mostly everything except about liberals, they aren't intolerant except of those who are intolerant of others. I have no patience for the inability to put oneself in someone else's shoes, it could be you next, it can always be you.
2
Thank you. You wrote exactly what I have been feeling.
2
The headline seems off. When they say "6.7 million customers" are without power, that refers to number of households. The number of people affected is presumably far larger, around 12 million people.
9
I will not contribute to any FL rebuilding until Gov Scott admits he was stupid about climate change, loudly insists that Trump reinstate Paris and fire Pruitt. Did I mention that it's time Florida stopped being an income tax haven?
11
Correction:
"... I will not contribute to any FL rebuilding until Gov Scott admits he was stupid about climate change ..."
What you presumably mean is that you won't VOLUNTARILY contribute. If you pay taxes, you'll be contributing, whether you want to or not, just as you presumably did when Katrina, Sandy and Harvey hit.
"... I will not contribute to any FL rebuilding until Gov Scott admits he was stupid about climate change ..."
What you presumably mean is that you won't VOLUNTARILY contribute. If you pay taxes, you'll be contributing, whether you want to or not, just as you presumably did when Katrina, Sandy and Harvey hit.
3
Same old..FPL should have put the power undergound after Wilma in 2005 but obviously were being cheap and totally direspectful to their costumers.
6
It's really too bad that the storm didn't blow a number of idiotic weather and news reporters standing out in high winds. We don't need a blow by blow (pun intended) of every aspect of the storm. Just pass on the word from emergency officials and be done with it, already! Someday one of them will sustain a significant injury and then this nonsense will end.
--Longing for the days before 24-hour news....
--Longing for the days before 24-hour news....
14
Alice, you can always turn off your TV.
3
If you don't like reporters standing out in the storm, don't watch them! Turn to another channel or turn your tv off.
2
Of course this should be a national rescue effort! But what about asking Florida to institute an estate tax in order to cooperate with any future relief efforts?
13
Or demand Texas use their $10 BILLION rainy day fund for recovery!The governor still believes in secession
6
I do not wish for retribution of any kind to any and all that work against, or do not believe in climate change. That is what means to be a Liberal. ( to offer well wishes to all , regardless )
Having said that, I hope that the backers\voters of republicans will open their eyes to the effects and vote accordingly next time around. ( for backers of science )
It is the same effect as all those that suddenly find out a family member is gay and show a little more compassion. We can only hope.
Having said that, I hope that the backers\voters of republicans will open their eyes to the effects and vote accordingly next time around. ( for backers of science )
It is the same effect as all those that suddenly find out a family member is gay and show a little more compassion. We can only hope.
13
I have been without "power" (see Gregory Corso) for seventy-seven years.
All Best.
All Best.
5
As this was our first FL hurricane experience, needless to say we were only partially prepared. Fortunately our 18 year old house was unscathed. The loss of power is our only negative outcome. However had the storm not veered to the east, I am certain that we would have paid a price. The tile barrel roofs are pretty, but they are potential missiles required by HOA regulations. This state and nation are absolutely unprepared for these natural disasters. The aging infrastructure compounds the dangers. The fool in the white house needs to get Mexico to repair public works. The wall is the dumbest idea and hoax ever foisted on the American people.
13
Glad to hear you and your house made it. Sorry to hear your power is out, but count your blessings. Our power was out here too after the 1989 earthquake, which was a major hassle but at least let us see that there are STARS in the sky in San Francisco. I'd thought one had to drive to Yosemite to see stars, but I remember seeing thousands of them the night of the 1989 earthquake.
I doubt you saw any stars in the sky last night, but I hope something good came from the experience. If nothing else, you'll remember that you made it through unscathed. Hang in there.
I doubt you saw any stars in the sky last night, but I hope something good came from the experience. If nothing else, you'll remember that you made it through unscathed. Hang in there.
4
In Florida there are 6 million people without power? Well, all over the United States, there are more than 300 million people without power and they don't even know it.
21
Of course all those climate change deniers will be arguing now that we are just not smart enough to predict the future. And of course they will silently skip the obvious main fact on which the climate science is based - that it's much easier to correctly predict what will happen in 30-50 years, with a thousand times more variables to take in account than mere millions of variables that a hurricane a week ahead has.
4
Honestly, predicting the path of hurricane, and the change in climate are two totally different problems.
The underlying differential equations are completely different, and thus, their solutions are not applicable to each other. They are apples and oranges.
But, such subtlety is usually lost on most people.
The underlying differential equations are completely different, and thus, their solutions are not applicable to each other. They are apples and oranges.
But, such subtlety is usually lost on most people.
This is not exactly over.
A loss of power in Florida means a loss of air conditioning in intense humidity, in a state where there are a large amount of older citizens.
I worry that people who have survived the storm may succumb to heat exhaustion.
A loss of power in Florida means a loss of air conditioning in intense humidity, in a state where there are a large amount of older citizens.
I worry that people who have survived the storm may succumb to heat exhaustion.
14
There are over 1 million without power here in Georgia. Here in Atlanta one of the big dangers are falling trees. We have many “old growth” trees some over 100 years old and they are truly massive. I just learned of a fatality on the news. One of the trees fell through a home, very sad. It’s a real serious problem that we have to live with, there are literally thousands of them. Beautiful to view but when storms like this arrive it can be quite dangerous.
Irma is not finished yet. Here we’re expecting (for the first time) tropical storm winds through the evening.
Irma is not finished yet. Here we’re expecting (for the first time) tropical storm winds through the evening.
9
And what did the floridian delegation do for the upper atlantic coast when we were under the same circumstances after hurricane Sandy?
Just asking!
Just asking!
7
They voted for aid; It was Texas that balked.
6
Reply to stephanie: Marco Rubio, Florida Senator, voted against the Hurricane Sandy relief bill.
8
Florida Senator Bill Nelson voted for it, as did several Congress people.
2
My 95-year-old aunt is without power. She refused to evacuate but lives on the East Coast of Florida, so I expect she is alive. I can't reach her. My worry is how she will eat in the next week or so, with no refrigeration and no way to heat canned food. I imagine the stores don't have power either. And no air conditioning--don't know how she'll survive in the heat.
10
I hope your aunt is okay too.. If she can put a damp towel across her head or on the back of her neck, she can keep somewhat cool. Canned food doesn't have to be heated to be eaten. She may be tougher than you think.
8
Will anyone in this country ever start asking the question why we taxpayers (the bulk of whom are in blue states) continue to pay money into FEMA relief funds for places like Florida just so the beach-front property folks and others in typical hurricane paths can rebuild and rebuild and rebuild --- while we keep re-paying and re-paying.
Is no one in Florida required to have insurance to cover this? Why do the taxpayers constantly have to bail out folks who live in hurricane country?
In California you are not allowed to build in flood zones. You cannot get a permit to build in an earthquake fault. Gee, there's some common sense.
I am fed up with bailing out all these folks (and businesses) every time. My "humanity" has paid over and over. Enough.
Is no one in Florida required to have insurance to cover this? Why do the taxpayers constantly have to bail out folks who live in hurricane country?
In California you are not allowed to build in flood zones. You cannot get a permit to build in an earthquake fault. Gee, there's some common sense.
I am fed up with bailing out all these folks (and businesses) every time. My "humanity" has paid over and over. Enough.
15
The highest point in Florida is just a little more than 300 feet. Practically speaking the whole state is a flood plain.
8
You are fed up with paying taxes? You must be fed up with paying for our wars too. How much did they cost?
2
So floridians expect that the northeast pays for service crews to reconnect their air conditioning.
IMAGINE THAT.
IMAGINE THAT.
6
How has this been downgraded to a "Tropical Storm?"
1
Dear Luke T.,
The sustained wind speed has fallen to below hurricane strength levels. It's inevitable once any hurricane gets over land for long, it loses power very fast without water underneath it.
The sustained wind speed has fallen to below hurricane strength levels. It's inevitable once any hurricane gets over land for long, it loses power very fast without water underneath it.
1
Why do hurricanes only hit red states that deny climate change? Seems odd...
8
Florida is a purple state. And most local elected officials in South Florida ignore our foolish Governor and take climate change seriously.
1
Now that the huricane excitement has peaked perhaps NYT and other media might like to take a look at the equally devastating wildfires still raging from Montana to Washington to California into Arizona. This is far and away one of if not the most devastating fire seasons on record.
21
Yes, wildfires are a big deal in the West and especially in British Columbia, but how many people are without electricity and livelihoods because of the wildfires?
Of course, the people of Florida, Texas, and other places will use quite a lot of wood products in repairing and rebuilding their lives, so they should be concerned about the wildfires, but only after they make sure their families, friends, and pets are secure and safe.
Of course, the people of Florida, Texas, and other places will use quite a lot of wood products in repairing and rebuilding their lives, so they should be concerned about the wildfires, but only after they make sure their families, friends, and pets are secure and safe.
2
Or do more work on another national catastrophe, the revelation that Equifax is a deeply flawed organization, with consequences for half the US population--this story has been seriously under-reported
7
It seems that many Floridians are not concerned at all about climate change, and that they pay no taxes to cover this disaster. So, it's left to the other tax payers to have them re-build in places that they should not -- good deal for them! And, added to that, forget climate change (banned as phrase by their denier governor), they'll take the money and go about their lifestyle/ business of living without having to taxes and letting the Federal Government and export tax states pick up the tab!
25
I knew there was no state income tax in Florida but I was unaware that federal income taxes were not levied in the Sunshine State. Wow, no wonder so many Americans want to live there.
9
New Yorkers have descended on Florida by the thousands to avoid paying the high New York taxes... Only about one-third of the people living in Florida are native born Floridians... It's a tax haven for northeasterners... The people who, out of ignorance and a bit of malice, are the biggestcollection of know-nothing finger pointers in the country...
2
plus real estate tax plus sales tax.
I guess it's rather unfortunate with the hurricane and all, but I'm so glad Mar-a-Lago was spared. Looking forward to my tee-time next week - a major bucket list item!
1
...and the tax payers won't have to pay to rebuild it!
1
There's always hope that Jose will demolish Maga Lago, or the next hurricane to come along. If you golf there though, please remember to wear cleats and tear up the grounds a lot. Every little bit helps.
3
In retrospect the whole thing seems to have been "overblown".
7
It was presented as the hurricane from some sci-fi movie that would devour all that it touched. In the end it was a hurricane that touched many areas but it is #7 in the list of worst hurricanes.
My sisters new double wide vacation home in Venice is in fine shape. Listening to the weather channel or the news, one would have thought that double wide would have been totaled by the hurricane.
The same thing happens with snow storms. Heck they now name snow storms. The weather channel presents high totals and there have been too many times that the entire storm fizzles out.
I guess truth or hype is in the eyes of the beholder.
My sisters new double wide vacation home in Venice is in fine shape. Listening to the weather channel or the news, one would have thought that double wide would have been totaled by the hurricane.
The same thing happens with snow storms. Heck they now name snow storms. The weather channel presents high totals and there have been too many times that the entire storm fizzles out.
I guess truth or hype is in the eyes of the beholder.
9
If Irma had gone up the eastern side of Florida instead of the western side, stalled out Miami, or Tampa as a Category 4 storm - all of which were not unlikely- you would not be complaining about "hype."
The National Weather Service doesn't have a crystal ball. This was a massive storm with the potential to do catastrophic damage. That's what the NWS predicted, and that's what the media reported.
AFTER Houston flooded, the Times was filled with comments criticizing the Mayor of Houston for not ordering a mandatory evacuation and chastising Houston residents for not leaving before the storm.
You can't have it both ways. If you want people to act on a serious risk, then they have to be warned, in clear language, of what may happen if they do not. If you don't want people to act - if you don't want "hype" - then don't complain when the Mayor doesn't evacuate the city or people decide to ride out what does turn out to be a record-shattering storm.
The National Weather Service doesn't have a crystal ball. This was a massive storm with the potential to do catastrophic damage. That's what the NWS predicted, and that's what the media reported.
AFTER Houston flooded, the Times was filled with comments criticizing the Mayor of Houston for not ordering a mandatory evacuation and chastising Houston residents for not leaving before the storm.
You can't have it both ways. If you want people to act on a serious risk, then they have to be warned, in clear language, of what may happen if they do not. If you don't want people to act - if you don't want "hype" - then don't complain when the Mayor doesn't evacuate the city or people decide to ride out what does turn out to be a record-shattering storm.
4
They do have a crystal ball, but it's not 'perfect'...the fact that people expect 'perfection' is the problem. There will never be perfection in a forecast, there will always be a degree of uncertainty. That's the facts of life. Better get used to it now, my friends.
That's great! The loss of power should directly offset the climate change that caused the hurricane! I'd strongly encourage Florida to keep the lights off until Jose is out of the picture!
6
"How fortunate that those who defied evacuation orders are alive and able to lament how inconvenient a few days' stay in a shelter might have been..."
Some commenters have criticized Florida officials for ordering evacuations, and some commenters criticized the mayor of Houston for NOT ordering an evacuation.
Those government officials just can't win.
Turns out that evacuation orders were pretty much "overkill" for Irma, but who knew? Hindsight is always 20/20. A few days ago, Irma looked a lot more scary. Personally, I would NOT have ordered any evacuation, though I'd have very strongly advised it for Keys residents and would have advised it for several other places. Florida officials, obviously, made a different call, and that call arguably was "safer," at least for this storm (after all, if someone evacuates to, say, Kansas, he or she probably won't be harmed by a Florida hurricane (assuming that he or she doesn't have a car accident or plane crash along the way)).
It nevertheless strikes me that there was a significant "cost" to Florida officials' evacuation orders. Even this time, many Florida residents simply ignored them. Next time, might they be even more likely to do so, even if "next time" it really is the "Big One?"
Maybe government officials should try a bit harder to strike a balance, perhaps relying just a tad more on the intelligence of Florida residents to do the right thing, rather than simply assume they're a bunch of selfish dolts.
Some commenters have criticized Florida officials for ordering evacuations, and some commenters criticized the mayor of Houston for NOT ordering an evacuation.
Those government officials just can't win.
Turns out that evacuation orders were pretty much "overkill" for Irma, but who knew? Hindsight is always 20/20. A few days ago, Irma looked a lot more scary. Personally, I would NOT have ordered any evacuation, though I'd have very strongly advised it for Keys residents and would have advised it for several other places. Florida officials, obviously, made a different call, and that call arguably was "safer," at least for this storm (after all, if someone evacuates to, say, Kansas, he or she probably won't be harmed by a Florida hurricane (assuming that he or she doesn't have a car accident or plane crash along the way)).
It nevertheless strikes me that there was a significant "cost" to Florida officials' evacuation orders. Even this time, many Florida residents simply ignored them. Next time, might they be even more likely to do so, even if "next time" it really is the "Big One?"
Maybe government officials should try a bit harder to strike a balance, perhaps relying just a tad more on the intelligence of Florida residents to do the right thing, rather than simply assume they're a bunch of selfish dolts.
5
Just for kicks, I checked in to the comments to see if the "Readers' Picks" were politically oriented. Yup. The usual pontificating. I'm sure others, on some other boards, are going on about how we must be in the end times, because obviously God's mad at us. I guess nothing happens in the heavens or on the earth that isn't seen through a prism of some sort, by some folks. What was that again about how tragedies bring us together?
4
> Dave
Even if we disagree with one another, we are still "together".
Even if we disagree with one another, we are still "together".
5
Thank you Governor Scott and various mayors from cities in Florida on how to handle a hurricane. If there is one good thing to say about Mayor Nagin of New Orleans, he provided an example that "To be unprepared before a real emergency is to set a table for total panic during an emergency." That lesson was well received, what an excellence job these individuals performed.
6
Dom M: Thanks for comparing apples to oranges by equating a mayor with a governor. Neither the budget nor the powers are equivalent. And of course, Louisiana was a Republican State with a Democratic mayor, a Republican governor, and a Republican President. They were only too happy to make the mayor look as bad as possible. I would say the governor and the "heckuva job Brownie" president belong in your Hall of Blame for Katrina mismanagement as much as the mayor does. The fact that they are not mentioned in your comment shows your agenda is biased.
5
There was no inference to politics or agenda, just well earned kudos for leaders doing their job. Michael Brown and Michael Chertoff were Republicans and did an horrendous job, as did then president Bush, but preparations for protecting the city's residence should have been that mayor's overriding responsibility. Nagin completely failed in overseeing his management team in preparation for the disaster about to bear down on his city, COMPLETELY FAILED. As bad as job as Bush did in leading to and following the disaster does not relieve a mayor from being prepared for disaster that should befall his or her city. The Floridian Governor and mayors did an excellent job, party affiliation has little to do with the excellent job they performed, saving lives in the process. (note original comment should have read 'excellent').
4
Did not Rick Scott remove $700 million from the water management bureau in his first term?
1
"...Florida is also very flat and in the hurricane zone."
I once read that no place in Florida is more than 50 feet above sea level. Not so, I've learned from various drives up and down I-75 (I've never lived in Florida, but have been there many times). But the fact remains that Florida's pretty darn flat. As others have pointed out, Cuba may have sapped some of Irma's strength, thus protecting Florida, but I doubt Florida will sap much strength of some future hurricane, thus protecting Georgia. A serious hurricane that hits Florida may not get slowed down much at all.
I once read that no place in Florida is more than 50 feet above sea level. Not so, I've learned from various drives up and down I-75 (I've never lived in Florida, but have been there many times). But the fact remains that Florida's pretty darn flat. As others have pointed out, Cuba may have sapped some of Irma's strength, thus protecting Florida, but I doubt Florida will sap much strength of some future hurricane, thus protecting Georgia. A serious hurricane that hits Florida may not get slowed down much at all.
2
Half my family lives in Cape Coral, FL. They decided to stay home. Why? Our father has Alzheimer's disease and is immobile. Now imagine, if you will, my family in a shelter with Dad’s condition. Suddenly, he has to be changed, and starts to scream. What do you think that would be like? Would 200 to 300 people in a shelter have the patience and gentleness to understand? With everyone in such a dire situation, I doubt it. Alzheimer's patients are strong. It takes two people and two hours to finish changing and cleaning him (by the way, for those that are wondering why he is not in a facility, it costs a fortune which we do not have). I feel that authorities should operate like the airlines and say, "Families with patients that are disabled go "X" shelter first.” With Florida's elderly population, I am, frankly, very surprised at this lack of awareness. I will write to the Governor. I don't know if my letter will even be considered, but it's important for him to know, and understand, what families go through. Families don't always decide to stay home because of 'wanting to ride it out', sometimes, they stay because, like my family and so many others, their situation gives them no choice. The past two days were filled with desperation, especially since Cape Coral is less than 5 feet above sea level, and surges were predicted at 9-15 ft. But God calmed the water, and the surge never came.
19
God bless your father and your family. And all of your care for him.
5
Thank you for raising this issue. I was irritated by some of the news stations arrogant, scolding tone about some folks who stay - making it sound like it's a fun and silly choice. Many who stay have good reasons, or simply can not afford to take an unplanned, long-distance trip.
1
A hurricane doesn't have a planned path to deviate from. It will not exactly follow a path we predict it will follow, but that's our problem, not nature's.
5
It's funny. 100 years ago, we had nothing. We just got hit by hurricanes with no warning and there was massive losses of life. There were so many bodies after the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 that they couldn't possibly bury them. They had to make massive piles and burn them with gasoline. Can you imagine the sight of hundreds of burning bodies on national TV, because the government recommended it?
That's how bad it could really get. And, instead, we have science, and we have the ability to track and predict hurricanes with astonishing accuracy when you consider the scale of things (Irma landed within 100 miles of where it was predicted to land). The fact that people use this as an excuse is just shameful and only reflects how poorly educated the average American is that they don't even appreciate the fundamental value of the daily weather forecast.
Maybe next time, we should just turn the power off, and make them ride out the storm, with no warning. Just to teach them a lesson.
That's how bad it could really get. And, instead, we have science, and we have the ability to track and predict hurricanes with astonishing accuracy when you consider the scale of things (Irma landed within 100 miles of where it was predicted to land). The fact that people use this as an excuse is just shameful and only reflects how poorly educated the average American is that they don't even appreciate the fundamental value of the daily weather forecast.
Maybe next time, we should just turn the power off, and make them ride out the storm, with no warning. Just to teach them a lesson.
But that's what they DO!
"...politicians in baseball caps and flight jackets please stop with the hyperbole?"
How can a politician wearing a baseball cap and flight jacket NOT engage in hyperbole? Someone would take away his baseball cap and flight jacket!
Seriously, though Florida may have dodged the bullet here, undoubtedly other hurricanes will hit the state and do much worse damage. I've read that Florida hurricanes have been less frequent and less intense over the past few years, but I've also read that this year is predicted to be just the opposite. Too early to tell, obviously, since hurricane season is just getting up to speed, and it's great that Irma wasn't the "Big One" as expected (though it WAS the "Big One" for many poor Caribbean islands), but Florida is almost certain to get hit hard by some storm(s) this season.
"...politicians in baseball caps and flight jackets please stop with the hyperbole?"
How can a politician wearing a baseball cap and flight jacket NOT engage in hyperbole? Someone would take away his baseball cap and flight jacket!
Seriously, though Florida may have dodged the bullet here, undoubtedly other hurricanes will hit the state and do much worse damage. I've read that Florida hurricanes have been less frequent and less intense over the past few years, but I've also read that this year is predicted to be just the opposite. Too early to tell, obviously, since hurricane season is just getting up to speed, and it's great that Irma wasn't the "Big One" as expected (though it WAS the "Big One" for many poor Caribbean islands), but Florida is almost certain to get hit hard by some storm(s) this season.
2
We stepped outside this morning to find our neighborhood scattered with limbs and debris along north- and south-running streets, but no apparently catastrophic structural damage. Our power was restored an hour ago, though we are still without water. We are very, very grateful to be alive and well following this storm. The next one could always be the last.
22
Scattered with tree limbs, thankfully, right? Someplace like Bangladesh, it'd be more likely to have been human limbs. Count your blessings indeed.
3
Hi NYTimes, Just wanted to let you know that Irma is still alive and kicking her vast tentacles here in Aiken, SC. Clearly, it isn't as bad as it was in Florida, but we are experiencing high winds and driving rain. The horses are bundled up in the barn and the dogs and I are huddled on the living room couch praying that the power and internet stay on so I can continue to binge watch Frazier while working on a report due Wednesday morning.
10
And here in Greenville, the wind was strong enough that a tree in my front yard came apart, with a huge limb ending up on my roof. Then, another gust of wind blew the limb off my roof, and into my neighbor's yard. Irma, indeed, is still alive and kicking.
3
Time for states like FL and TX to enact a state income tax. They need to help pay for some of these - and future - events. Then the rest of us can contribute through our federal tax dollars.
22
It is called property tax, and, for most homeowners, it is 5 figures.
At least in Texas.
At least in Texas.
3
Apparently too much to ask that you educate yourself on the tax structure and income sources which apply in Florida (perhaps you would be willing to trade property-tax bills, sight-unseen?), and on the state's revenue and income sources vs. its budget. The negligible demands needed in order to make silly comments are certainly less onerous.
2
George,
Here in San Francisco, we have BOTH -- a large local property tax AND a large state income tax. I'm pretty sure it's the same in New Jersey.
Here in San Francisco, we have BOTH -- a large local property tax AND a large state income tax. I'm pretty sure it's the same in New Jersey.
1
I'm all for the Feds backstopping the states in disaster response and relief. But states that abuse their citizens and deny climate change shouldn't get unrestricted funds to rebuild in areas newly vulnerable due to climate change. Non-scientific arguments don't hold water (nor do they hold wind and water back), and they should be ridiculed.
Obstinate politicians can go to the fossil fuel industry for loans and grants. Those folks are loaded with money and not already in debt to the tune of $20 trillion.
Obstinate politicians can go to the fossil fuel industry for loans and grants. Those folks are loaded with money and not already in debt to the tune of $20 trillion.
47
Phew! Florida somehow luckily skirted the 'really big one' somehow. This time at least. Yet rest un-assuredly there will be many more to come in the years ahead. Waiting someday to see massive amounts of our own domestic, environmental refugees fleeing to the north.
6
The next big one maybe coming next week, not ten years from now.
Houston is suffering very badly- the airport was closed for 6 days, people had 4-6 ft of water in their streets and homes, and yet political comments keep happening about Harvey and now Irma.
Reasons of flooding in Houston have to do with topography and geography. Houston sits on the Gulf off of an active hurricane zone, as does Florida.
Topography in Houston is VERY flat, and the city has suffered a major flood an average of once a DECADE since records were kept in the 1830's, almost 200 years ago. Florida is also very flat and in the hurricane zone.
People want sunshine, they want to see the ocean and the Gulf, and you can try and complain about global warning and politicians, but the fact is, both states lure residents by weather and low taxes.
Time to start helping the residents instead of arguing about politicians.
Reasons of flooding in Houston have to do with topography and geography. Houston sits on the Gulf off of an active hurricane zone, as does Florida.
Topography in Houston is VERY flat, and the city has suffered a major flood an average of once a DECADE since records were kept in the 1830's, almost 200 years ago. Florida is also very flat and in the hurricane zone.
People want sunshine, they want to see the ocean and the Gulf, and you can try and complain about global warning and politicians, but the fact is, both states lure residents by weather and low taxes.
Time to start helping the residents instead of arguing about politicians.
2
Democrats have been trying to help for years, voting for proper FEMA funding, responsible environmental policies etc., we were told off in no uncertain terms, now those same people have their hands out and want sympathy.
7
Look, I have no problem with "sunshine ... the oceans and the Gulf ... low taxes."
Just don't expect me to pay for it when the predictable occurs ... particularly over and over again!
Just don't expect me to pay for it when the predictable occurs ... particularly over and over again!
11
"People want sunshine, they want to see the ocean and the Gulf, and you can try and complain about global warning and politicians, but the fact is, both states lure residents by weather and low taxes. "
Then let the people who are foolish enough to buy those homes pay for their own repairs!
6
Why all the double talk about strange atmospheric conditions causing the devastating floods, fires, and hurricanes to the puzzlement of scientists. Scientists have been shouting about Global Warming for several decades while our coal, auto, utilities, and chemical industries have been having studies made to deny that that there is such a thing as Global Warming, or that if it exists it is a natural phenomenon without harmful consequences. Polar ice caps are disappearing, massive hurricanes with rains and coastal surges are destroying large portions of our cities and flood plains, forest fires are becoming commonplace, and our once-clear air is heavily polluted with smoke and exhaust gasses. But not to worry, according to most of our major industries and the media, all of these lethal threats are supposedly very puzzling to scientists and are not a direct consequence of our poisoning the earth's environment. So we go on polluting as if nothing unusual was happening when we seemingly should be taking major changes to avoid the poisons of chemicals and weather that lie ahead on the courses we are on.
8
Tampa hasn't been hit by a hurricane in 90 years?
"The city was again spared from a direct hit by a hurricane, as has been its good fortune for more than 90 years running."
"The city was again spared from a direct hit by a hurricane, as has been its good fortune for more than 90 years running."
1
quoting you from yesterday...
"Even though Irma wasn't a big deal for Florida, let's not forget that it WAS a big deal for various Caribbean countries..."
If this many people losing power is not a big deal in your opinion, then I guess we need to see Yellowstone explode or an asteroid extinction event for you to be impressed.
According to the Atlantic....well, the grid will need a rebuild of sorts.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/floridas-largest-...
"Even though Irma wasn't a big deal for Florida, let's not forget that it WAS a big deal for various Caribbean countries..."
If this many people losing power is not a big deal in your opinion, then I guess we need to see Yellowstone explode or an asteroid extinction event for you to be impressed.
According to the Atlantic....well, the grid will need a rebuild of sorts.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/floridas-largest-...
3
"...If this many people losing power is not a big deal in your opinion..."
Losing power IS a big deal. I don't like it one bit when it happens here in San Francisco. It's not quite the same as dying, or having your house knocked down, but losing power indeed is a big deal.
Losing power IS a big deal. I don't like it one bit when it happens here in San Francisco. It's not quite the same as dying, or having your house knocked down, but losing power indeed is a big deal.
2
wow. so many people have been rushing to save their homes and their families. it is just to sad to have to know what those stupid hurricains do to people. high rise of water, very strong winds... i'm praying for the best in everyone that's in florida right now.
1
Millions more American without power in PR and VI. Does our government care about them?
12
Not to be cynical, but the answer to your question is basically, no. Certianly not Congress, because they have no representatives, and thus carry no votes.
7
What a miserable country we have become. We'd rather wage
war in the Middle East and next in Russia instead of taking care of our own people.
war in the Middle East and next in Russia instead of taking care of our own people.
25
Some people make a lot of money off of wars (and give large donations to politicians).
3
The path to reliable power now depends upon breakthrough energy technology.
To the surprise of almost everyone 24/7 solar powered engines will soon provide generators of all sizes that need no fuel.
A converted Ford engine ran without fuel to prove the concept. Another engine has been converted and will be validated by an independent laboratory.
These engines expand the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Few scientists and engineers believe they are possible. A White Paper is available. The work reflects 27 years of effort by Kenneth Rauen. See SECOND LAW SURPRISES at aesopinstitute.org
Imagine power generation at every scale operating 24/7 without need for fuel. Homes and buildings, cars, trucks, boats, ships and aircraft dispensing with any need for fuel.
Similar engines will self-power refrigeration, heating and air-conditioning.
Trolls are certain such work must reflect fraud and dishonesty, making efforts to provide working capital excruciating. A bold soul or two can prevent an immediate pending interruption and accelerate this potentially life saving work.
Given the political realities, only rapid development and commercialization of revolutionary science and technology can improve the odds for human survival on this dangerously warming planet.
Mass production of the best examples worldwide, without delay, might help slow down and eventually avoid more destructive hurricanes, floods, fires and life threatening heat.
To the surprise of almost everyone 24/7 solar powered engines will soon provide generators of all sizes that need no fuel.
A converted Ford engine ran without fuel to prove the concept. Another engine has been converted and will be validated by an independent laboratory.
These engines expand the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Few scientists and engineers believe they are possible. A White Paper is available. The work reflects 27 years of effort by Kenneth Rauen. See SECOND LAW SURPRISES at aesopinstitute.org
Imagine power generation at every scale operating 24/7 without need for fuel. Homes and buildings, cars, trucks, boats, ships and aircraft dispensing with any need for fuel.
Similar engines will self-power refrigeration, heating and air-conditioning.
Trolls are certain such work must reflect fraud and dishonesty, making efforts to provide working capital excruciating. A bold soul or two can prevent an immediate pending interruption and accelerate this potentially life saving work.
Given the political realities, only rapid development and commercialization of revolutionary science and technology can improve the odds for human survival on this dangerously warming planet.
Mass production of the best examples worldwide, without delay, might help slow down and eventually avoid more destructive hurricanes, floods, fires and life threatening heat.
1
How fortunate that those who defied evacuation orders are alive and able to lament how inconvenient a few days' stay in a shelter might have been,
6
I do understand the fascination of the hurricanes down in the south of the country. Wild wind and rain and water surges are scary AND there are devastating fires in Montana, Oregon and Washington. These deserve our attention and aid as well as hurrican survivors. I think that the saddest part of all these tradgedies is the fate of all the wild animals who live in the swamps, oceans and forests. I never hear anything about them and who is helping them and how we can support the rescuers. I did hear one little mention of the manatees left high and dry when the waters withdrew. Did anyone help them? How about the baby bears in Montana who are burned? Did anyone help them. Humans are NOT the only creatures who suffer from devasting fires and floods and yet we are the only ones anyone ever talks about. We, who are causing these things, yes we are, need to be responsible for the survival of the other species who are under threat. Humans need to stop building so many houses in dangerous places, we need to stop overbreeding and we need to pay attention to what is happening around us.
60
"I did hear one little mention of the manatees left high and dry when the waters withdrew. Did anyone help them?"
Actually, if you want to read about those manatees, then yes, they were taken care of. What I read says that manatees getting stranded at low tide is not uncommon and they rescue themselves when high tide shows up. I hope that make you feel better.
Actually, if you want to read about those manatees, then yes, they were taken care of. What I read says that manatees getting stranded at low tide is not uncommon and they rescue themselves when high tide shows up. I hope that make you feel better.
4
I have a home in Florida and left just before the storm. People down there always help the animals. There was a pig roaming the streets and his owner was found. Someone else is taking a group of bunnies to the no kill shelter. The manatees were helped. I saw that Kerry Sanders of NBC was helping a dolphin. You need to believe that most people come together in a crisis, not just for the humans.
4
Four words: CLIMATE CHANGE! GLOBAL WARMING! wake up to the floods and fires of 2017! It doesn't' matter if you "believe in Climate Change" -- It's already happening! We are already in a crisis....we desperately need environmentally-minded leadership to mitigate the climate changes that cannot be turned back now....
30
i agree
6
While I think the climate change argument is yet to be proven, we cannot ignore what the scientists and technology information adds and helps out in crises. While predictions are not totally accurate, it is amazing how far the information has come. The computer models, analysis and media coverage was extremely interesting.
The past weekend's events have been a tremendous source of knowledge with which to fight and prepare for future catastrophes. We can bury our heads in the sands and not do anything; or we can move forward. No doubt there will be a huge amount of damage that we discover in the coming days; but I was also struck by well Florida's Building Codes for wind and floods helped tremendously in mitigating the damage.
I live in earthquake country(SF Bay Area) and we will no doubt have another huge earthquake like the one that just occurred in Mexico a few days ago. Our building codes in California will serve a similar purpose in mitigating the severe damage that will occur.
The past weekend's events have been a tremendous source of knowledge with which to fight and prepare for future catastrophes. We can bury our heads in the sands and not do anything; or we can move forward. No doubt there will be a huge amount of damage that we discover in the coming days; but I was also struck by well Florida's Building Codes for wind and floods helped tremendously in mitigating the damage.
I live in earthquake country(SF Bay Area) and we will no doubt have another huge earthquake like the one that just occurred in Mexico a few days ago. Our building codes in California will serve a similar purpose in mitigating the severe damage that will occur.
Unless saying "climate change, global warming" three times while clicking one's heels together is going to make the flood waters in Houston recede or remove the debris and restore power across Florida, what good are those words to people in need? People need dry homes, homes they can actually enter and lights that turn on, and sorry, talk of climate change and global warning is not going to solve those immediate problems.
1
I know this is an American newspaper, but as a person raised in Miami living in Europe it feels like NYT really stretched the Hurricane Irma coverage, as did most media channels, even when it was evident that the storm was much weaker when it made landfall in Florida. Floridians have always been extremely prepared, It wasn't going to be a Houston 2.0. Now lets talk about Mexico and Burma, those are disasters happening in places that don't have billions in relief aid.
53
As a person raised in Miami living in Miami I have 2 words for you. And they aren't "thanks, buddy".
9
Most flooding I've seen in coastal South Carolina since Hurricane Hugo and not a hurricane! You know less than you think. My wife and I lucked out because we are two feet higher than the next-door neighbors. Our vehicles stayed above the water, theirs they got on the slab under their house but there was water there. Our road is still eighteen inches deep, I may kayak to to my buddies for a beer.But it's still blowing 30 knots and raining!
4
You know there were plenty of us outside of Florida watching all of that coverage all weekend. We have friends and property down there. Plus the news was disseminated as the store moved so people on the west coast could prepare. And believe me there will be people that will not be getting any of those "billions" in aid relief.
1
The shameful governor of Florida has forbidden Climate Change to be part of any official documents in the state. Maybe--now--the bottom-feeder will realize his state is Ground Zero for rising sea levels, catastrophic floods, etc. Time to rebuild with Climate Change mitigation as part of the plan. No time for denial; it is criminal.
29
Agree.
But he did a great job with Irma.
But he did a great job with Irma.
The European model tracking hurricane Jose is currently predicting that it will swing around and hit the west coast of Miami after gathering speed. So far, the European model has been the most accurate. I wouldn't rush home to west or south west Florida quite yet.
9
Let's hope it does. The fact that these people have the gall to question the people that err on the side of caution is quite alarming.
I can honestly say, I hope they get their homes destroyed but live to tell the tale, then maybe they can actually learn from their mistakes.
I can honestly say, I hope they get their homes destroyed but live to tell the tale, then maybe they can actually learn from their mistakes.
Irma ain't Aleppo.
It ain't Portlandia, neither.
8
Would I be right in assuming that those with solar arrays would have power, assuming their equipment was not damaged? At least you'd have some power during the day until the grid got fixed.
2
AFAIK, solar panels generally feedback to the grid - it's not typically set up to work in isolation in the US though it can be.
--Ram
--Ram
4
Maybe folks in hurricane climates should consider solar as backup power as it seems these catastrophic storms will continue. Price is coming down fast.
5
Harvey and Irma have caused untold billions of dollars of damage to our country...more than ISIS could dream of doing. Yet we have spent a trillion dollars in Afghanistan on a mission that only benefits our defense contractors. How about we pull our troops out and put that money back into the U.S.?
144
I live south of Kissimmee. We found out that we were going to get a direct hit only an hour or two before it happened.
Winds of over 100 mph lasted for a couple of hours. Weird, eerie noises. You could feel the sheer power of the storm. Hurricane force gusts lasted most of the night.
Power back on after a 15 hour outage. I believe that I'm one of the earliest to get it back, though, as I live next to a sheriff's office and fire station.
Damage seems to be minimal relative to the strength of the storm. Minor flooding and some roof damage to the house. Trees down but seems like the worst that most people got is a destroyed screened-in porch.
It's sunny and breezy now. Bad night, but it could have been a lot worse.
Winds of over 100 mph lasted for a couple of hours. Weird, eerie noises. You could feel the sheer power of the storm. Hurricane force gusts lasted most of the night.
Power back on after a 15 hour outage. I believe that I'm one of the earliest to get it back, though, as I live next to a sheriff's office and fire station.
Damage seems to be minimal relative to the strength of the storm. Minor flooding and some roof damage to the house. Trees down but seems like the worst that most people got is a destroyed screened-in porch.
It's sunny and breezy now. Bad night, but it could have been a lot worse.
39
I live in Arizona and I knew about Irma a good week before it hit. You need to watch the news once in awhile or at least the weather channel.
10
Wow, the unnecessary anger of Betsy Huntington in Arizona's reply and several others here. I know as a country the anger and anxiety level has been high for a while but, seriously, Irma's path was tracked right left and center and changed by the hour. Someone in Ben's area did not need to evacuate based on all the information that said Miami would take the brunt. The "forecast" changed very quickly. Now, northeast Florida is experiencing surges that exceeded expectations.
Okay, I grieve for: the animals, the wildfires, the earthquake in Mexico, Houston, Aleppo, Afghanistan. Really, for the whole planet. The world is full of suffering. And there's still room in my heart for Ben and countless others in Florida. Peace, all.
Okay, I grieve for: the animals, the wildfires, the earthquake in Mexico, Houston, Aleppo, Afghanistan. Really, for the whole planet. The world is full of suffering. And there's still room in my heart for Ben and countless others in Florida. Peace, all.
7
How can that be, Ben? I live in NYC and half my family lives in PR and the other half lives in the Orlando/Kissimmee area and I knew about that forecast way before you? I don't have tv and I tracked Irma on the internet. I am assuming you have internet too, as you are commenying here. Did you need an engraved notification from the government?
9
A real wake-up call to respect the complexity of weather.
The best science with the top super computers couldn't answer the simple bottom-line question: Where will this hit and will it be powerful enough to justify evacuation on such a massive scale? And they couldn't get that right two days out. Doesn't mean they did a bad job of it - it's just the phenomenon of weather analysis clearly involves so many variables that it is often too complex for science to make useful accurate statements other than "big hurricane coming in your direction."
Modern leftist university science seems to do a much more confident job when predicting things that involve the perfect storm of leftist political support, endless funding, and no immediate accountability - like what ocean levels will look like in the hundred years.
The best science with the top super computers couldn't answer the simple bottom-line question: Where will this hit and will it be powerful enough to justify evacuation on such a massive scale? And they couldn't get that right two days out. Doesn't mean they did a bad job of it - it's just the phenomenon of weather analysis clearly involves so many variables that it is often too complex for science to make useful accurate statements other than "big hurricane coming in your direction."
Modern leftist university science seems to do a much more confident job when predicting things that involve the perfect storm of leftist political support, endless funding, and no immediate accountability - like what ocean levels will look like in the hundred years.
10
Scientists have generally been the first to acknowledge what they don't yet know. In fact, that is one of the best reasons to err on the side of caution in the way we treat our planet. This is not a leftist position. It is a rational position.
44
Yeah, but they knew the storm would hit, and they knew it would hit Florida, and they were right about the wind speeds generally and a few other details. So I think the weather predictors got it more right than wrong. Likewise with climate complexity.
Predicting trends is easier than getting very accurate predictions far into the future. The sea levels down the road if life goes on BAU is going to be higher is the (conditional) prediction, correlated with the levels of CO2. If we have a huge nuclear war and nuclear winter, then there would be global winter and likely sea levels would go down. Another conditional prediction. The confidence isn't great that we'll do something to reduce the sea levels in part because of attitudes like yours.
--Ram
Predicting trends is easier than getting very accurate predictions far into the future. The sea levels down the road if life goes on BAU is going to be higher is the (conditional) prediction, correlated with the levels of CO2. If we have a huge nuclear war and nuclear winter, then there would be global winter and likely sea levels would go down. Another conditional prediction. The confidence isn't great that we'll do something to reduce the sea levels in part because of attitudes like yours.
--Ram
5
Shame on you! "Leftist" problem? Nonsense. Climate Change is here--it is real and it will bankrupt us unless we figure out a way to build our cities that takes rising sea levels into account. The blighted right has been outrageously irresponsible when it comes to addressing this very real threat!
8
On the whole Florida and Floridians got lucky. It didn't hit Miami and it didn't hit Tampa/St. Pete. Sooner or later big storms will.
But before people start counting that "luck" too much, the damage from this storm will be large -- some insurance companies may fail, and together with Harvey the FEMA/NFIP costs will be a national issue.
If you want to live in harm's way, why should the rest of America pay for you to do so?
But before people start counting that "luck" too much, the damage from this storm will be large -- some insurance companies may fail, and together with Harvey the FEMA/NFIP costs will be a national issue.
If you want to live in harm's way, why should the rest of America pay for you to do so?
16
No doubt the people who live in all the areas impacted by natural disasters over the last few weeks - Florida, Texas, Washington State, Montana, southern Mexico, India - appreciate your advice and look forward to moving next door to such a charitable neighbor.
3
A few words for you:
Tropical Storm Sandy's extreme damage in New Jersey and New York.
Wildfires out west.
Earthquakes everywhere from Washington DC to California.
Blizzards galore.
Yellowstone caldera.
Midwest tornadoes.
Life along nearly every river in America.
Very few places in our huge country promise no threat of extreme weather, and if we all tried to fit into those places, they'd be crowded indeed. And it looks like the REGULATIONS passed after Hurricane Andrew 25 years ago have paid off for Florida this time, for the most part.
Tropical Storm Sandy's extreme damage in New Jersey and New York.
Wildfires out west.
Earthquakes everywhere from Washington DC to California.
Blizzards galore.
Yellowstone caldera.
Midwest tornadoes.
Life along nearly every river in America.
Very few places in our huge country promise no threat of extreme weather, and if we all tried to fit into those places, they'd be crowded indeed. And it looks like the REGULATIONS passed after Hurricane Andrew 25 years ago have paid off for Florida this time, for the most part.
2
No matter where you live, all of us are susceptible of being in harms way. Why should the rest of America pay? Perhaps that is the price of being a responsible member of society.
2
I've been looking for any news on how Marco Island, Sanibel, Captiva Island, Naples, etc. have weathered the storm (i.e., the entire west coast of Florida up to say Venice Beach or even Tampa)....but cannot find Anything Anywhere.
Why? Why is there a complete void on this particular news story? Is there a complete blackout on news for this section of the country? It's the only area where the full brunt of the storm hit mainland USA, and these areas are particularly vulnerable since they've got lots of low lying homes along the coast.
Why? Why is there a complete void on this particular news story? Is there a complete blackout on news for this section of the country? It's the only area where the full brunt of the storm hit mainland USA, and these areas are particularly vulnerable since they've got lots of low lying homes along the coast.
25
There is local coverage. Google 'Sanibel Irma'. FWIW, Sanibel fared quite well - downed vegetation and power lines; flooded roads. The Causeway has been inspected and ok'd, but not yet reopened.
I think you expect too much. There was hurricane and when you have been in one, you will see how roads are blocked, power is gone, cell phone towers are gone, and satellite phones are few and far between. News is gathered by real people and in many of those areas you mentioned real people are doing other things right now besides trying to find news reporters to tell their stories to.
3
My sentiments too, about Key West. Very little post-storm coverage although I suspect that is due to the heavy hit they took, comparably. I'm hoping the Hemingway House of cats and their managers, who decided to stay put, were able to make it through alright.
1
What if, just what if, we decide as a country, to truly focus on protecting the environment, focusing on sustainable energy and we ditch the "drill baby drill" mindset?
With two major hurricanes in two weeks, is this a possibility?
Signed, a concerned citizen of Planet Earth
With two major hurricanes in two weeks, is this a possibility?
Signed, a concerned citizen of Planet Earth
99
That's asking too much. Remember, this is America.
8
A great first step is for EVERYONE to learn more about the Sustainable Development Goals adopted by the UN two years ago. Every individual has the opportunity to turn concern into measurable action in their own lifestyle and in their local community.
3
The problem or unique characteristics of a democratic society is that every one has his or her own voice. Usually the more richer you are, the louder the voice you speak. A fundamental understanding of global warming raising so many doubts is unheard of. This is simply due to the money being spent on the subject to deny the fact.
14
Florida and the Antilles got lucky. But let the fate of the Leewards be a warning; this can and will happen again. Next week? Next month? Next year? Atlantic hurricanes come and go in a cycle, and we are probably at the beginning of a new one, coupled now with the effects of a warmer ocean and new climate patterns. It would be nice if policymakers would finally address reality as it is, not as they and their fossil-fuel sponsors wish it to be.
43
May be a little early for high fives.
6
Americans historically self-congratulate too early. Think about Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
They like to do that, because that's the only time when they have an opportunity....if you look at the big picture, all you see is needless loss.
They like to do that, because that's the only time when they have an opportunity....if you look at the big picture, all you see is needless loss.
Let's face it - Florida got very lucky that the drag from Cuba slowed Irma down and made it move further west than originally expected. So, Cuba saved Florida! Yes, loosing lives and property was substantial, but we've been spared far worse damage if Irma hit directly Miami area. Thanks goodness!
67
Did Irma knock down Rush Limbaugh's radio studio?
Ooooo, we hope so!
Ooooo, we hope so!
112
If either Limbaugh's or trump's place was damaged you can be sure they will try to scam the insurance companies and FEMA into reimbursing them for the GREATEST and HUGEST damages of all time. They many anyway.
8
How did climate change ever become a political issue and not the defining problem of our time with everyone pulling together to save ourselves, our plant and future Generations? If Hitler rose to power today I think he would soon become just a political line in the sand.
37
Quick answer: Fossil fuel money.
2
lets just thank God that the drought is over for Alabama! !
3
It's too bad no one has explained how a "negative tsunami" works. I've read the water retreated from the shore because of high winds -- which I don't believe is true. Wasn't it caused by extremely low atmospheric pressure within the hurricane? Can someone advise here.
2
The National Hurricane Center website has General information on storm surges. They are caused by hurricane level on shore winds. The reverse surge was because the winds were blowing off shore.
1
I believe it is a combination of both. The low pressure allows the water to expand up and the wind pushes the water away from the coast.
2
It sounded as if the phenomenon experienced there during the hurricane was similar to a saltwater, more expansive version of the seiches experienced on our Great Lakes; or the barometric pressure changes-influencing, saltwater "tides" occurring periodically during the year in Venice.
Nothing will change in Florida so long as there is no state income tax.
33
As soon as it has one the airlines, AmTrac and Interstates will be flooded with New Yorker Floridians headed to some other no-ncome-tax haven, wherever that may be...
3
I heard some folks from the NE talking about Tennessee and Kentucky as option to "reside" in for tax purposes as they keep their condo in Manhattan..
1
E Campbell.....wonder if that would mean they'd vote there too...could lead to some interesting election returns....
An orgy of 24/7 coverage by those who benefit most.....the media who boost ad revenue, the media talking heads who get that always desirable face time and the politicos who also never turn down an opportunity to appear in front of a camera. There are and have been many hurricanes which were clear threats to a specific region and one was well advised to clear out....Andrew, Katrina, Rita, Ike and Harvey are the most recent to come to mind. Irma was a meandering system and the panic button was pushed too early by the above parties.
18
Monday morning quarterbacking.
30
A "meandering system"? The gauges don't lie, Mark. This storm literally shattered barometers in the Atlantic and triggered seismographs. Just because it didn't deliver the worst-case damage and body count doesn't mean the media was wrong to focus on it or that officials were wrong to take drastic measures.
Don't be disappointed when things don't turn out as bad as they could have. The potential was there, and it will happen again. Maybe next time you won't be so disappointed, but I hope so.
Don't be disappointed when things don't turn out as bad as they could have. The potential was there, and it will happen again. Maybe next time you won't be so disappointed, but I hope so.
26
You just can't win in these situations - if you fail to evacuate and people die, then it's, "the science is useless", "the scientists are useless" and "the politicians didn't do their job".
If the storm tracks differently than predicted then it's "the science is useless", "the scientists are useless", and "the politicians and media are hysterical".
The facts are that this was the biggest Cat 5 hurricane that ever formed in the Atlantic basin - it maintained 185+ mph wind for 35 hours - a record. It literally tore apart the islands in its path. Generally, I'm no fan of Rick Scott, but he handled this very well and did his constituents proud this weekend. Florida got lucky and dodged a bullet.
If the storm tracks differently than predicted then it's "the science is useless", "the scientists are useless", and "the politicians and media are hysterical".
The facts are that this was the biggest Cat 5 hurricane that ever formed in the Atlantic basin - it maintained 185+ mph wind for 35 hours - a record. It literally tore apart the islands in its path. Generally, I'm no fan of Rick Scott, but he handled this very well and did his constituents proud this weekend. Florida got lucky and dodged a bullet.
14
Although the storm was horrendous and caused incredible suffering, it could have been far worse if it made a direct hit onto the coast stretching Miami-Dade to Palm Beach County. Like Andrew, this storm is a warning that we need to manage better our coastal resources and development. Given the increasing warming of the Atlantic and the apparent climate change in the jet stream, we will be in a period of increasing storm activity and nature may not be so kind in the future.
55
In the right spirit for first responders to remember those who died helping others. Amen.
18
I cannot begin to imagine myself being in the position of so many Americans right now, there is a loud cry of help coming from the south in this day in time. Hurricane Irma has consumed many parts of Florida. At this point there is not anything that the locals can do, other than hope and pray for "Good Fortune" as Mayor Buckhorn said. The evacuation process for Florida seems to be going much better that of Texas. For the most part the flooding is becoming manageable.
3
For me, the greatest unsung hero of this entire season is the mayor of Houston who did not issue evacuation orders - against the advice of the governor. Local does (most often) know best. Easy to make the decision to evacuate but that has a cost as well.
Of course you would say but happens if the flooding had been worse and thousands had died? Think about how bad flooding must be to reach a second story of a house. Very unlikely, unless you are below sea level like New Orleans or Amsterdam and dealing with storm surge or failed dikes. It is a terrifying experience but most fatalities are from people who try to drive in high water.
In a situation where wind is not the issue and the entire issue is localized flooding, and you have millions of people who must evacuate and the rushed evacuation has proved in the past to lead to deaths, the idea of sheltering in place and encouraging people to seek higher ground and second story houses is a tough call but makes sense. He saved many lives by not giving in to the hype.
Of course you would say but happens if the flooding had been worse and thousands had died? Think about how bad flooding must be to reach a second story of a house. Very unlikely, unless you are below sea level like New Orleans or Amsterdam and dealing with storm surge or failed dikes. It is a terrifying experience but most fatalities are from people who try to drive in high water.
In a situation where wind is not the issue and the entire issue is localized flooding, and you have millions of people who must evacuate and the rushed evacuation has proved in the past to lead to deaths, the idea of sheltering in place and encouraging people to seek higher ground and second story houses is a tough call but makes sense. He saved many lives by not giving in to the hype.
9
It was all about what happened during Rita. The criticisms leveled at Mayor Turner all came from non-Houstonians. Ask any Houstonian who was around for Rita, they understood why Turner didn't order an evacuation.
6
Just one point on the negative surge victims we'll be reading about tomorrow:
Maybe a clearer warning is needed for folks enticed by retreating water and who probably think they are "away" from it: "Move away from the BEACHES.
Maybe a clearer warning is needed for folks enticed by retreating water and who probably think they are "away" from it: "Move away from the BEACHES.
4
Sounds like Florida got off very lightly, there was tremendous good luck in the shift of the hurricane's path, and the way it weakened fairly quickly. From here on in it's just going to be a heavy rainstorm, not much trouble at all.
I'm not concerned at all about the Keys, even though they were hit the hardest by far, because everyone there is rich. Flat out everybody has enough money to deal with this even if they didn't have insurance, and I'm sure they all do. They'll all be fine, except for the reckless few who messed around outside during the storm and were lost.
What really got devastated was the eastern Caribbean, and everyone in Florida should have another look at the photos of carnage and total destruction out there before complaining much about this hurricane.
Glad it didn't turn out to be anywhere near as bad as forecast, and I understand the reason for the dire warnings on Friday, but on Saturday people should have been given the message that it wouldn't be that bad. Everyone who was forced to evacuate, and comes home to a house untouched by the storm, or looted, is not going to want to leave next time. And next time it might well be a catastrophic storm.
If anyone thinks this is too callous, well sixteen years ago today I was in NYC for an event far more deadly and terrifying than any hurricane in the last hundred years. So I've got perspective, and it's a nice thing to have.
I'm not concerned at all about the Keys, even though they were hit the hardest by far, because everyone there is rich. Flat out everybody has enough money to deal with this even if they didn't have insurance, and I'm sure they all do. They'll all be fine, except for the reckless few who messed around outside during the storm and were lost.
What really got devastated was the eastern Caribbean, and everyone in Florida should have another look at the photos of carnage and total destruction out there before complaining much about this hurricane.
Glad it didn't turn out to be anywhere near as bad as forecast, and I understand the reason for the dire warnings on Friday, but on Saturday people should have been given the message that it wouldn't be that bad. Everyone who was forced to evacuate, and comes home to a house untouched by the storm, or looted, is not going to want to leave next time. And next time it might well be a catastrophic storm.
If anyone thinks this is too callous, well sixteen years ago today I was in NYC for an event far more deadly and terrifying than any hurricane in the last hundred years. So I've got perspective, and it's a nice thing to have.
14
with the el out. but cell phone working. it us 2nd communication or cell phone taggers that will get the message out to those who stayed.
I am surprised that people are surprised that the water goes out. The same thing happened in Indonesia, Malaysia etc. around new years eve 2004/2005.
With tsunami sirens already blaring people instead followed the receding waterline, often to their early and watery grave. I suggest teaching this in schools worldwide (tourists...) so that it becomes clear: if the water goes away you should RUN to higher ground.
Mother nature doesn't do these things for your entertainment, you know...
With tsunami sirens already blaring people instead followed the receding waterline, often to their early and watery grave. I suggest teaching this in schools worldwide (tourists...) so that it becomes clear: if the water goes away you should RUN to higher ground.
Mother nature doesn't do these things for your entertainment, you know...
72
Animals, on the other hand, ran in the correct direction before the tsunami had even hit.
During that catastrophic tsunami, a British school girl recognized what the outflow of water meant, and her screams alerted many people to the danger. That sharp 12-year-old saved many lives that day. Knowledge can, indeed, be powerful. So can sharp 12-year-old girls.
Native Floridian here. Much of the drama from cable news seems to have been a reaction to the horrible impact of Hurricane Harvey in Houston as well as ratings driven. So many of the Florida residents I know were worried after seeing what is possible. I'm in intermittent touch with friends and family now, most without power, most who stayed put in northeast Florida, evacuated in central Florida and hunkered down in southeast Florida. While they are experiencing difficulties, they know they were spared much worse.
I have sympathy for the forecasters. Irma swung east and west. The nature of the Florida peninsula meant its effects would be strange and unpredictable in so many areas.
Still, the theater of the broadcasts, most of which I could thankfully avoid from where I am, only amplifies the anxiety and has a deleterious effect on future evacuation decisions. Just the facts, please. This is only one critical example of when government is for the good of all. Let the National Hurricane Center bulletins be broadcast. Let a meteorologist explain the various possibilities. Get the hams and the advertisements off the air.
I have sympathy for the forecasters. Irma swung east and west. The nature of the Florida peninsula meant its effects would be strange and unpredictable in so many areas.
Still, the theater of the broadcasts, most of which I could thankfully avoid from where I am, only amplifies the anxiety and has a deleterious effect on future evacuation decisions. Just the facts, please. This is only one critical example of when government is for the good of all. Let the National Hurricane Center bulletins be broadcast. Let a meteorologist explain the various possibilities. Get the hams and the advertisements off the air.
13
And, let me add, could the politicians in baseball caps and flight jackets please stop with the hyperbole?
13
Would all the cubans, to whom the USA has provided refugee and better lives; finally vote for science vs their anger and unrealistic foreign policy ?
What would be policy, if there is no land left to live on.
What would be policy, if there is no land left to live on.
8
That's the idea. Cuba will disappear under the sea long before the USA does.
Don't generalize. I am Cuban American and have always voted Democratic. The Democratic candidate for President has won Miami-Dade County the last several elections. You don't win Miami-Dade County unless you get a substantial number of Cuban American votes.
Governor Climate-Change-Denial Scott is 'very concerned'.....about never using the terms manmade climate change and madmade global warming.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article12983720.html
The state of Florida is the region most susceptible to the effects of global warming in this country. Sea-level rise alone threatens 30% of the state’s beaches.
But you would not know that by talking to officials at the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, the Florida state agency muzzled by Scott.
DEP officials have been ordered not to use the term “climate change” or “global warming” in any official communications, emails, or reports, according to former DEP employees, consultants, volunteers and records obtained by the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting.
“We were told not to use the terms ‘climate change,’ ‘global warming’ or ‘sustainability,’” said Christopher Byrd, an attorney with the DEP’s Office of General Counsel in Tallahassee from 2008 to 2013. “That message was communicated to me and my colleagues by our superiors in the Office of General Counsel.”
Kristina Trotta, another former DEP employee, said her supervisor told her not to use the terms “climate change” and “global warming” in a 2014 staff meeting. “We were told that we were not allowed to discuss anything that was not a true fact,” she said.
This unwritten policy went into effect after Gov. Rick Scott took office in 2011.
With Governor Scott in charge, who needs Know Nothings ?
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article12983720.html
The state of Florida is the region most susceptible to the effects of global warming in this country. Sea-level rise alone threatens 30% of the state’s beaches.
But you would not know that by talking to officials at the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, the Florida state agency muzzled by Scott.
DEP officials have been ordered not to use the term “climate change” or “global warming” in any official communications, emails, or reports, according to former DEP employees, consultants, volunteers and records obtained by the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting.
“We were told not to use the terms ‘climate change,’ ‘global warming’ or ‘sustainability,’” said Christopher Byrd, an attorney with the DEP’s Office of General Counsel in Tallahassee from 2008 to 2013. “That message was communicated to me and my colleagues by our superiors in the Office of General Counsel.”
Kristina Trotta, another former DEP employee, said her supervisor told her not to use the terms “climate change” and “global warming” in a 2014 staff meeting. “We were told that we were not allowed to discuss anything that was not a true fact,” she said.
This unwritten policy went into effect after Gov. Rick Scott took office in 2011.
With Governor Scott in charge, who needs Know Nothings ?
171
Since, according to Gov. Scott, there hasn't been any "climate change" in Florida, at least, surely he's not going to need any more than he needed after the last hurricane, in the way of relief and recovery. Especially in way of federal funds. Why would he? Nothing's changed! Gov. Scott said so!
1
Scott was a criminal when he lived in Nashville, attempting to defraud Medicare of hundreds of millions. He still is in denying climate change.
73
@Socrates,
Thank you for your cute cynicism. The victims of these storms appreciate it very much.
Thank you for your cute cynicism. The victims of these storms appreciate it very much.
7
Will Floridians admit climate change and take future action?
54
@jacquie: It would be wise to not blame every hurricane, storm, or other weather event that happens on climate change. Not even climate scientists do this. Florida has been hit by hurricanes before and will be again. Floridians do need to prepare for hurricanes now just like they have in the past. Blaming this on climate change when there is no direct linkage is counter productive.
11
Jacquie -- in the short term this really is not about "climate change" -- it's not changing fast enough to explain why NFIP is an economic black hole, etc.
What I mean is that the NFIP rates aren't ridiculously low because they were actuarily sound a few years ago, and climate change has made a profound difference in less than a decade.
This is all just a big real-estate and development scam. People want to live in dangerous places along the coast. There is a lot of money that can be made selling them what they want ... as long as some sucker can be prevailed upon to cover the insurance.
That sucker is the rest of the American public. Floridians sure aren't going to admit anything as long as the rest of America subsidizes the scam.
There's no need to "regulate" this idiocy out of existence. Just stop using the rest of the American public to subsidize it.
There are two obvious changes that would fix almost all of the problems:
* end NFIP. Let flood insurance be a market-rate proposition
* make all states non-recourse for primary residences.
With these changes lenders would become far more careful about lending on risky properties -- the problem would largely solve itself.
Of course, the value of a great deal of real estate would plummet, because Uncle Sugar is no longer guaranteeing it.
What I mean is that the NFIP rates aren't ridiculously low because they were actuarily sound a few years ago, and climate change has made a profound difference in less than a decade.
This is all just a big real-estate and development scam. People want to live in dangerous places along the coast. There is a lot of money that can be made selling them what they want ... as long as some sucker can be prevailed upon to cover the insurance.
That sucker is the rest of the American public. Floridians sure aren't going to admit anything as long as the rest of America subsidizes the scam.
There's no need to "regulate" this idiocy out of existence. Just stop using the rest of the American public to subsidize it.
There are two obvious changes that would fix almost all of the problems:
* end NFIP. Let flood insurance be a market-rate proposition
* make all states non-recourse for primary residences.
With these changes lenders would become far more careful about lending on risky properties -- the problem would largely solve itself.
Of course, the value of a great deal of real estate would plummet, because Uncle Sugar is no longer guaranteeing it.
4
Koch Brothers said there is no such thing as global warming. The Koch Brothers want to spend millions on getting right wing people into office. Instead, the Koch Brothers should take the money and pay the cost of cleaning up Texas, Florida and Georgia.
161
New York will be next.
No, I think they like the model of privatizing profits and socializing the costs related to the oil industry business model.
2
NY will be next? For what? What on earth do you mean?
Amazing story of boys surviving tidal surge;
27 Hours Adrift: Surviving the 1946 April Fool's Day tsunami
https://www.nytimes.com/?action=click&contentCollection=U.S.®ion=TopBar&module=HomePage-Button&pgtype=article
27 Hours Adrift: Surviving the 1946 April Fool's Day tsunami
https://www.nytimes.com/?action=click&contentCollection=U.S.®ion=TopBar&module=HomePage-Button&pgtype=article
So, Mr. Pruitt, can we talk about climate change now?
95
Thank goodness Irma was no Katrina, Sandy, Andrew, or last week's Harvey. It was more like a bad Nor'easter. We all spent the weekend glued to this essentially 'non-event'. So..please stop! Let's get back to the real news of the hideous so-called administration that threatens us every day.
53
I'm sure there are plenty of individuals in the Caribbean that would take odds with your benign assessment. Without the on-going coverage would these people get the assistance they need?
30
I don't think the people living in Cuba, Haiti, DR, Antigua, Barbuda etc feel this was a non-event.
56
Mikeyz - I agree that we most want to hear about the changes being made by this administration that threaten all of us as well as our democracy. We don't need wall-to-wall hurricane coverage. But if you were in Florida, this was far from a 'non-event,' and considerably worse than a nor'easter.
7
The real question: will anything change? Will anything be learned or will we get a little talk followed by a return to business as usual?
73
Dear Pat,
Don't be silly! Nothing will change, nothing will be learned, and we'll return to business as usual. But on the bright side, maybe next time the hurricane will turn out to be really impressive, and when it gets destructive enough, people might learn something. Maybe not though, have a look at New Orleans to see how well they've handled the sea wall there.
Don't be silly! Nothing will change, nothing will be learned, and we'll return to business as usual. But on the bright side, maybe next time the hurricane will turn out to be really impressive, and when it gets destructive enough, people might learn something. Maybe not though, have a look at New Orleans to see how well they've handled the sea wall there.
12
Well that is the $64 question.
1
Nope, looks like rugged individualism and fierce independence will win the day yet again.
2