Roger, in your introduction at beginning of this piece you forgot to add "inciter and enabler of the assassin who shot Yitzhak Rabin."
(By his with his crazy, paranoid, violence inducing speeches after the Oslo accord)
The devil will have a special hot room for Netanyahu to dwell in for eternity.
(By his with his crazy, paranoid, violence inducing speeches after the Oslo accord)
The devil will have a special hot room for Netanyahu to dwell in for eternity.
17
Hmmm...
Another Right-wing leader brought down by graft and grift.
Any day Mueller. Please make it sooner than later.
By the by, what does the US tax payer get for its $$$4 billion dollar a year gift to Israel?
Another Right-wing leader brought down by graft and grift.
Any day Mueller. Please make it sooner than later.
By the by, what does the US tax payer get for its $$$4 billion dollar a year gift to Israel?
6
And, while this conflict remains unresolved the U.S. suffers blow back, as we are considered by most of the world, as Israel's enabler. Ralph Bunche, who mediated a resolution in 1948 said he couldn't offer the Palestinians justice, but could offer them peace. Peace without justice? How's that working out? Helped to destabilize the whole region. But, then the invasion of Iraq added immeasurably to the suffering, hate, and chaos. Americans are ever more endangered by these conflicts.
6
The no-state approach remains equally shared view between BOTH majorities of Israelis and Palestinians. To accuse only one party of self serving arrogance is not supported by any factual evidence.
13
Mr. Netanyahu (and, for that matter, his wife) might or might not be corrupt; but a two-state solution, the solution proposed by the United Nations back in 1948, has been a dead issue ever since the Arabs decided they didn't want a non-Arab entity among them and attacked Israel the minute the U.N. resolution went into effect. Doing so effectively blocked the creation of a Palestinian state. Jordan occupied the West Bank.
On several occasions since then, a two-state solution has been in sight. Time and again, Arabs have stymied any possible agreement.
It's no wonder that Israelis have begun to shrug at the notion of a two-state solution.
Especially when you add to it the number of occasions, wholly unreported in The New York Times, Muslims have attacked and maimed or killed Jews -- taught how to, courtesy of videos put out by the Muslim leadership.
On several occasions since then, a two-state solution has been in sight. Time and again, Arabs have stymied any possible agreement.
It's no wonder that Israelis have begun to shrug at the notion of a two-state solution.
Especially when you add to it the number of occasions, wholly unreported in The New York Times, Muslims have attacked and maimed or killed Jews -- taught how to, courtesy of videos put out by the Muslim leadership.
21
Until peace comes between Gaza and Israel, there will be no territorial solutions in the West Bank.
3
Terminate the U.S.-Israeli dependency. Slice all U.S. annual military and economic aid 10% per year until all Israeli extraterritorial settlements are eliminated. This situation is far more than a Bibi issue.
If Israelis of all stripes want U.S. friendship, fix it, or lose all support and guarantees.
If Israelis of all stripes want U.S. friendship, fix it, or lose all support and guarantees.
11
Doesn't America support both Israel and Saudi Arabi? It seems the usual suspects don't want this situation to change.
3
There will never be peace because of how Israel was created. Palestinians will not forget or forgive that their ancestral homes were ripped from them and any evidence of their prior existence was erased as if it never existed by Zionist Jews. When you subjugate a people and continue to steal their land you can't expect forgiveness from those people.
The only reason that the UN doesn't condemn Israel more strongly over the treatment of the Palestinian people is because Israel is the West's strongest ally in the middle east. There's also a lot of lingering guilt over the halocaust.
This is Israel's problem and they must decide to fix it. Hopefully Trump will stay out of it.
The only reason that the UN doesn't condemn Israel more strongly over the treatment of the Palestinian people is because Israel is the West's strongest ally in the middle east. There's also a lot of lingering guilt over the halocaust.
This is Israel's problem and they must decide to fix it. Hopefully Trump will stay out of it.
9
As in the USA, efforts to stain the leader with crimes and political blunders are part of power struggles. To date, I have not seen that Netanyahu has gained financially from corruption. The claim about take-out, catered food seems quite odd. The claim about favorable coverage seems unlikely to be illegal in a free speech world. What POTUS in the USA wouldn't give preference to favored news entities? The submarine issue sounds more concerning but does it touch Bibi?
I think I smell an odor of smelly power hunger folks going after Bibi.
I think I smell an odor of smelly power hunger folks going after Bibi.
4
Netanyahu's position is essentially the same that most of my relatives hold, that is, the Arabs should all go live in the other Arab countries. When I disagreed with my cousin about this policy, she said, "We Jews can only claim this one little piece of land--why can't they let us have it?"
Some decades ago, a man I worked with in San Francisco asked me if I thought Israel should have the right to exist. I asked him why it shouldn't have that right.
"Because it's a settler state," he replied.
"And isn't the U.S. a settler state?" I said.
He said, "That's different. We've been here for 200 years."
"So," I asked, "if Israel survives for 200 years, it will have earned the right to exist?"
He didn't have an answer. He owned a home in the Berkeley hills, and I don't think he wanted to return that land to the Native Americans.
I share these anecdotes to point out that both the U.S. and Israel were settled by people fleeing persecution and/or desperate poverty elsewhere. Both were founded on appropriating other people's land and oppressing or murdering them. The current regimes--Netanyahu's and Trump's--have ripped the masks off; they are the natural outcome of a series of crimes that eventually destroy any pretense democracy, justice, freedom, and peace.
Some decades ago, a man I worked with in San Francisco asked me if I thought Israel should have the right to exist. I asked him why it shouldn't have that right.
"Because it's a settler state," he replied.
"And isn't the U.S. a settler state?" I said.
He said, "That's different. We've been here for 200 years."
"So," I asked, "if Israel survives for 200 years, it will have earned the right to exist?"
He didn't have an answer. He owned a home in the Berkeley hills, and I don't think he wanted to return that land to the Native Americans.
I share these anecdotes to point out that both the U.S. and Israel were settled by people fleeing persecution and/or desperate poverty elsewhere. Both were founded on appropriating other people's land and oppressing or murdering them. The current regimes--Netanyahu's and Trump's--have ripped the masks off; they are the natural outcome of a series of crimes that eventually destroy any pretense democracy, justice, freedom, and peace.
11
Um Martha....let's see now.... the Jews have a 3000+ year historical connection to the Land of Israel, and Jerusalem has been the most important city in Judaism for some 3000 years. How long back did the historical connection of those Pilgrims and Jamestown settlers go to the "New World"?
Your attempts to make analogies between the European settlement and colonization of America, and the Jewish return to their historic homeland (which always did have a Jewish presence and to which the Jewish connection never ceased) is historical revisionist nonsense.
As to your comments about Netanyahu destroying democracy, justice, freedom, blah blah blah, well that statement just shows your extreme biases... Look up the Economist Intelligence Unit's ranking of countries by their democracy and freedom index, Israel has actually been moving up over the last few years....
Your attempts to make analogies between the European settlement and colonization of America, and the Jewish return to their historic homeland (which always did have a Jewish presence and to which the Jewish connection never ceased) is historical revisionist nonsense.
As to your comments about Netanyahu destroying democracy, justice, freedom, blah blah blah, well that statement just shows your extreme biases... Look up the Economist Intelligence Unit's ranking of countries by their democracy and freedom index, Israel has actually been moving up over the last few years....
9
No-state solution did not start with Netanyahu and will not end with him. True, he championed it for over a decade but a new generation of likeminded leaders are waiting in the line of succession. Israel has decided to keep the West Bank at any price. A harsh comparison would be with the determination of North Korean leader to build a nuclear capability. Both can argue a defensive necessity. The rest of the world is incapable of stopping either.
Sooner or later the main concern will become how to compensate the Palestinians.
Sooner or later the main concern will become how to compensate the Palestinians.
5
"A new generation of like minded leaders are waiting in line"? do you read what write? do you think there are not hundreds in line of like minded trump leaders?
Of course there are, and so of Netanyahu's and so of any leader. Does that mean all leaders are like him? there are some fine center and left wing leaders that would be the best replacement but sadly he does know how to evoke fear and use the ongoing stabbing events and not so far ago suicide bombings to reminded people what can happen.
I dont hear you protesting the keeping of any cost of the Gibraltar or the Falkland Islands by the british when there is no existential threat by giving them up...
Of course there are, and so of Netanyahu's and so of any leader. Does that mean all leaders are like him? there are some fine center and left wing leaders that would be the best replacement but sadly he does know how to evoke fear and use the ongoing stabbing events and not so far ago suicide bombings to reminded people what can happen.
I dont hear you protesting the keeping of any cost of the Gibraltar or the Falkland Islands by the british when there is no existential threat by giving them up...
6
We could start by returning Israel's boundaries to those imagined by the United Nations in 1948. Even those were too generous given they amounted to a UN-supported European invasion of Palestine, but for the sake of a starting point that gives us a point for discussion. Had a coalition of Muslim nations taken Long Island in 1948 and since expanded to take all of New England and the northeastern US as far west as Ohio and Kentucky I am sure Americans would be sitting around wondering how to get along with the invaders and what other concessions, territorial or social, we might offer to accommodate them. The central problem is we refuse to acknowledge the United States and its allies assumed they could dispose of Palestinian lands as if they were at the disposal of those making the decisions. Given postwar military dominance and revulsion at the horrors of the Holocaust creating Israel seemed a logical solution. But it should have been the state of New Jersey or South Carolina, not someone else's home. The world, but above all the Palestinians, bears the price of the hubris in giving away what was not ours to give. Unfortunately we have fostered a sense of entitlement among the invaders by underwriting their aggressive behavior toward their neighbors, facilitating a mindset of conquest rather than co-existence. Successive American administrations have reinforced this, and even the weakest of objections have brought a vigorous propaganda response favoring continued conquest.
16
Yes Israel was a result of WW2 and the Holocaust, Western powers making the decision to partition this land in large measure. Jews had been running from anti-Semitism for centuries.. mainly Christian anti-Semitism. But there is no question that Jews have had a presence in this holy land since their beginnings three thousand years ago or so. The same false reasoning could not make South Carolina a good home for Palestinians either.
The UN Partition of 1947 was close to being just even though Arabs at the time were vehemently opposed. Why should they pay?
Israel was accepted into the UN community of nations with the 1948 borders after their war of independence. Those borders is where Israel is legitimate.Arabs have come around to accepting that. But the intervening years have bred greed and righteousness in Israel. It is Israeli's that feel Israel deserves all the land; some still feel that Palestinians do not even exist, that their resistance is "terrorism" not about occupation. It is Israelis that feel their sufferings entitles them to cause the suffering of Palestinians,that Palestinians should just leave after all they are ARabs and Arabs have so much land. This is a very disappointing outcome to many Jews; the oppressed become the oppressors.
The UN Partition of 1947 was close to being just even though Arabs at the time were vehemently opposed. Why should they pay?
Israel was accepted into the UN community of nations with the 1948 borders after their war of independence. Those borders is where Israel is legitimate.Arabs have come around to accepting that. But the intervening years have bred greed and righteousness in Israel. It is Israeli's that feel Israel deserves all the land; some still feel that Palestinians do not even exist, that their resistance is "terrorism" not about occupation. It is Israelis that feel their sufferings entitles them to cause the suffering of Palestinians,that Palestinians should just leave after all they are ARabs and Arabs have so much land. This is a very disappointing outcome to many Jews; the oppressed become the oppressors.
12
In 2015 I lived and worked in Tel Aviv for six months. I spent a lot of time talking to my wife's ex-kibbutznik relatives, center-left, Labor Party voters all of them and to my more left-leaning Israeli colleagues about where it had all gone wrong, what had caused Israel to drift so far from the secular, democratic idealism of its founders to the twin poles of cynical corporatism and Jewish religious zealotry that dominate Israeli society today. Nobody had any very clear idea, though several identified Yitzak Rabin's assassination in 1996 as a major inflection point, a "sliding doors" moment out of which history might have been different had one small thing had been different, i.e. if Yigal Amir's bullet had not found its mark. I tend to think, though, that leftwing Israelis are kidding themselves in this regard, that Rabin's murder was a symptom more than a cause.
One factor that gets too little attention is the influx of Soviet Jews in the 1980s. Ex-Soviets - "Russians" - now make up nearly 20% of the Jewish population of Israel. As a group they have no natural ties to liberal Zionism and no cultural memory of democracy - they grew up in the USSR, after all. Many of them aren't even really Jewish. I have feeling that the Russians' presence shifted the political balance of power in ways that may yet prove fatal to Israeli democracy.
One factor that gets too little attention is the influx of Soviet Jews in the 1980s. Ex-Soviets - "Russians" - now make up nearly 20% of the Jewish population of Israel. As a group they have no natural ties to liberal Zionism and no cultural memory of democracy - they grew up in the USSR, after all. Many of them aren't even really Jewish. I have feeling that the Russians' presence shifted the political balance of power in ways that may yet prove fatal to Israeli democracy.
39
Whenever i hear someone say, "Many of them aren't even really Jewish" I always think, "Who gets to decide?" Remember, according to a lot of Israeli rabbis, all American Reform Jews "aren't really" as well...
4
Welcome to delayed recognition of reality Mr. Cohen!
Now, if only we could get your fellow columnists, editorialists, news reporters to actually report the facts and developments as they really are, rather than the whitewashed drivel Nit-an-yahoo and his thugs put out, well then, we might start to move the needle in the right direction.
I'm not holding my breath! Though that is exactly what is needed and overdue by a half century or so.
Lesson learned: "might is right." North Korea, are you listening?
Now, if only we could get your fellow columnists, editorialists, news reporters to actually report the facts and developments as they really are, rather than the whitewashed drivel Nit-an-yahoo and his thugs put out, well then, we might start to move the needle in the right direction.
I'm not holding my breath! Though that is exactly what is needed and overdue by a half century or so.
Lesson learned: "might is right." North Korea, are you listening?
17
This of course illustrates why President Obama wisely could not stand this crook and con man.
40
What it is taking time for a lot of people to understand is that Netanyahu is not a betrayal of Zionist ideals - he is the logical conclusion. He is the heart and soul of Zionism, the embodiment of the logic of national solutions to international problems...
15
The Jews go back to before the time of Christ.
So do the Palestinians.
Only, the Palestinians stayed there.
The Jews started returning with the Zionist movement around 1900.
A Jew anywhere in the world can be a citizen of Israel.
A Palestinian born in Haifa who left Hiaifa as a child because of the war cannot come back and is not allowed to be a citizen where he was born.
So do the Palestinians.
Only, the Palestinians stayed there.
The Jews started returning with the Zionist movement around 1900.
A Jew anywhere in the world can be a citizen of Israel.
A Palestinian born in Haifa who left Hiaifa as a child because of the war cannot come back and is not allowed to be a citizen where he was born.
40
Actually, many Jews either remained in the area or returned much earlier than 1900. There were Jews in Jerusalem, killed by the Crusaders. There were Jews in Sefat all along.
5
The Palestinians have started to define as Palestinians after the collapse of the Outtaman Empire, so no, they do not go back to the time of Christ.
And true, a Haifa-born Palestinian that fled cant go back to Haifa, just as any country that had a conflict with its neighbor and conquered territories did not allow the return of the neighbor to the territories until the conflict was ended.
And true, a Haifa-born Palestinian that fled cant go back to Haifa, just as any country that had a conflict with its neighbor and conquered territories did not allow the return of the neighbor to the territories until the conflict was ended.
3
Ironically, many of the people of the hilly villages of the west bank are ethnically descendants of the Jews who stuck to their land and were not
exiled by the Romans.
This is revealed by genetic testing.
They probably became Muslim and Christian under the Muslim conquest and the crusaders.
In several villages people follow "family traditions" which they do not know the origin which are actually jewish.
exiled by the Romans.
This is revealed by genetic testing.
They probably became Muslim and Christian under the Muslim conquest and the crusaders.
In several villages people follow "family traditions" which they do not know the origin which are actually jewish.
1
"We are like the French in Algeria" Ariel Sharon said "except we are staying". Netanyahu is no different than other Israeli Prime Ministers. The intention has always been the complete expropriation of Palestine.
24
Well not quite. He also said:
"We are not the English in India or the Dutch in South Africa. We are not a colonial power. This is the land of Israel, the land of our forefathers."
Netanyahu said that in 2011 to the US Congress. And he keeps saying that. I wonder whether Roger Cohen thinks the same way.
"We are not the English in India or the Dutch in South Africa. We are not a colonial power. This is the land of Israel, the land of our forefathers."
Netanyahu said that in 2011 to the US Congress. And he keeps saying that. I wonder whether Roger Cohen thinks the same way.
3
Give Palestine it's slice. If the terrorists continue after that, at least Israel will have tried, instead of the intolerant and corrupt nation the world now looks at.
13
Israel did give the Palestinians "a slice."
.
They got Gaza and the Palestinian Authority which controls Area A. And what did they do with it? Terrorist attacks, rockets aimed at Israelis in their cities, financial support for the terrorists and their families,
.
You are partly right about corruption in the Israeli government. But there is also corruption in the U.S. and other democracies. That doesn't negate their legitimacy. The Palestinians need to renounce their effort to destroy Israel and stop inciting their children to become terrorists.
.
They got Gaza and the Palestinian Authority which controls Area A. And what did they do with it? Terrorist attacks, rockets aimed at Israelis in their cities, financial support for the terrorists and their families,
.
You are partly right about corruption in the Israeli government. But there is also corruption in the U.S. and other democracies. That doesn't negate their legitimacy. The Palestinians need to renounce their effort to destroy Israel and stop inciting their children to become terrorists.
10
Israel pulled out of Gaza.
That enabled Palestinians to fire thousands of rockets killing or injuring 2,000 Israelis.
That enabled Palestinians to fire thousands of rockets killing or injuring 2,000 Israelis.
10
Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews can never find a stable peace until they accept that they lose nothing when they give the other side what they both seek for themselves. Give the Palestinian Arabs what you would want were you in their shoes in Europe and Russia prior to WWI and II. Give the Israeli Jews what you expect from the countries that have given you citizenship through marriage and public service in the Arab Gulf, Canada, Europe and the United States. Two peoples can live peacefully together in one country as legal equals.
5
Palestinians don't want peace.
War allows Palestinians to martyr themselves & go directly to paradise.
Also, war allows Palestinian leaders to become extremely wealthy - Arafat
$1 billion - Abbas $100 million. Hamas’ Khaled Mashaal net worth $2.6 billion. Ending the conflict means ending the money.
War allows Palestinians to martyr themselves & go directly to paradise.
Also, war allows Palestinian leaders to become extremely wealthy - Arafat
$1 billion - Abbas $100 million. Hamas’ Khaled Mashaal net worth $2.6 billion. Ending the conflict means ending the money.
10
The real problem is the lack of any acceptance by the Arab world of jewish rights to the land and the total intransigence which they exhibit expecting International presuure on Israel to force the Israelis to give them what they want;I write this as someone who believes the occupation and the settlement movement are wrongheaded andI view the Netanyahu administration with distaste;Given any kind of opening,the Arab world would annihilate every Israeli ,they show very little sense of reaching out publicly and sincerly to truly share the land;Everything is done stealthily,Until there is an true acceptance of Israel as Israel-ie,2states for 2peoples,intransigence on the Israeli side will continue
13
Let's not forget Netanyahu's recent alliance with Viktor Orban, Hungary's anti-Semitic prime minister. What is their bond? A shared antipathy for Jewish and Hungarian-born George Soros, who has the temerity to criticize the policies of Israel. Like our very own Trump and his Republican confederates (pun intended), Netanyahu cares not a whit about his country and his people: he cares only about himself and his grasp on power. Like America, Israel is in greater danger from its internal enemies - Netanyahu and his ilk in Israel, Trump and his base in the US - than from external threats. Both Israel and the US are advised to get rid of their toxic leaders. Their 'stewardship' can lead to no good.
20
Orban is not and has never been anti-Semitic.
1
I can't believe you're quoting James Baker as some sort of sage, when he was obviously never a friend to Israel.
Is this the best we can do today?
Is this the best we can do today?
9
because Baker was pragmatist; more valuable than ideologues of any "side."
5
The best summation of King Bibi I have read. When the leader of the Jewish State exclaims that he must not criticize the President of the United States and must remain silent when Trump stated that there were some "very fine people" amongst the Nazis who marched in Charlottesville, then he ceases to be the leader of the Jews and must abdicate his throne.
12
and truckloads of US tax payer dollars go to these people because?
17
The UK's internationally acclaimed Jane's Strategic publications estimated that the US would spend an extra $12 to $15 billion per year to replace what it gets from Israel, if it were even replaceable. Just moving America's Mideast strategic weapons depot from Israeli soil where it now sits for free would cost more than the U.S gives Israel in annual aid - assuming America could find another dependable, safe country in the region to relocate it to.
3
Forget Bibi Netanyahu, let’s talk about the really important problems!
Our government has voluntarily surrendered the high ground to the terrorists.
How?
It has left them with the exclusive monopoly on the interpretation of the Koran. You NEVER do that. If you do that, you provide them with the endless supply of the new recruits.
The beauty of the Koran is that does not belong to anybody. It especially does not belong to the terrorists.
It means the US government has the equal rights to the Koranic verses as the Al Qaeda.
The US government does not need the Islamic clergy to offer the better interpretation. The US government can offer far better interpretation than any Islamic theological institute in this world.
How come?
It has the strategic advantage – the lack of the wrongful training.
See, nothing prevents the White House from adhering exclusively to the Koran. All the Islamic clergy in the world has a split loyalty – to the Koran and to the Hadiths, the books of the ancient Arab dogmas and customs.
The key difference in such a theoretical discourse is that we would adhere exclusively to the God’s words and they would believe in the HUMAN proverbs.
That’s a kind of debate we must win every single time because we have no false idols like them…
Win this debate and you will defeat the Al Qaeda and ISIS forever, as well as the Ayatollahs in Tehran and the clergy in Riyadh…
Use to Koran to defeat the religious fanatics!
Our government has voluntarily surrendered the high ground to the terrorists.
How?
It has left them with the exclusive monopoly on the interpretation of the Koran. You NEVER do that. If you do that, you provide them with the endless supply of the new recruits.
The beauty of the Koran is that does not belong to anybody. It especially does not belong to the terrorists.
It means the US government has the equal rights to the Koranic verses as the Al Qaeda.
The US government does not need the Islamic clergy to offer the better interpretation. The US government can offer far better interpretation than any Islamic theological institute in this world.
How come?
It has the strategic advantage – the lack of the wrongful training.
See, nothing prevents the White House from adhering exclusively to the Koran. All the Islamic clergy in the world has a split loyalty – to the Koran and to the Hadiths, the books of the ancient Arab dogmas and customs.
The key difference in such a theoretical discourse is that we would adhere exclusively to the God’s words and they would believe in the HUMAN proverbs.
That’s a kind of debate we must win every single time because we have no false idols like them…
Win this debate and you will defeat the Al Qaeda and ISIS forever, as well as the Ayatollahs in Tehran and the clergy in Riyadh…
Use to Koran to defeat the religious fanatics!
3
As per Mr. Cohen's usual writings, the focus is NOT on peace in the mid-East, but on what Israel - and particularly Mr. Netanyahu - is doing wrong. We can't have one hand clapping! Both sides have no desire to come to the peace table - and for that both sides should be castigated. The world has put up with this nonsense long enough. But this kind of diatribe against only Israel? No intellectual honesty here.
And all the noise about corruption - some of it possible Netanyahu, other not - this is no more than mud thrown in frustration. Adds no clarity to the issue. I think Mr. Cohen should stick to writing about the European scene where he has more of a balanced sense of what's going on.
And all the noise about corruption - some of it possible Netanyahu, other not - this is no more than mud thrown in frustration. Adds no clarity to the issue. I think Mr. Cohen should stick to writing about the European scene where he has more of a balanced sense of what's going on.
13
Sigh...Bibi N. is one of the only clear eyed leaders in the world. The Palestinians have had multiple opportunities to have their own state. News flash to Mr Cohen. They don't just want their own state. They want Israel to be destroyed.
17
The first three paragraphs of this piece aptly describes the current leaders of not only Israel but the US and Turkey as well.
7
It is easy for General Cohen and other armchair generals to sit in New York and other metropolitan centers and pontificate about solutions to Israel's problems. Not sharing the destiny and fate of Israeli's, it may be fun to sound off, but we here in America are not sharing the future fate of Israel and its' citizens. Someday, you may wish there is an Israel to go to if life throughs us a change...I assure you the Palestinians are not interested at all in a two-state soluton; they want all control and power in their hands, and once again, the Jewish people's fate will be in hands that do not wish them well. The fact that Premier Netanyahu has been elected multiple times should tell what the Jews who actually live in Israel want..
14
It might be relevant to recall the offers made by Israel that were summarily rejected by the Palestinians.
We should question whether returning land which was taken fighting off a war of aggression may create the moral hazard of removing the primary disincentive for countries contemplating similar attacks.
We should question whether returning land which was taken fighting off a war of aggression may create the moral hazard of removing the primary disincentive for countries contemplating similar attacks.
9
The Palestinians created the current deadlock when Arafat rejected Pres. Clinton's peace plan and a series of intifadas followed. Israel got tired of the terrorism and rockets and elected Netanyahu (who will never agree to a 2-state solution) who used overwhelming force to stop the attacks.
Israel and the Palestinians need new leadership, with different goals, if they are ever going to have a chance to co-exist with peace, freedom and dignity for all.
Israel and the Palestinians need new leadership, with different goals, if they are ever going to have a chance to co-exist with peace, freedom and dignity for all.
12
In the 60's I believe there were social experiments conducted whereby children from N and S Ireland went to a neutral spot in the States and lived together for a short time. They made friends of course and found that they had a lot in common but admitted they would not be allowed to be friends once they returned to Ireland during "the troubles". I think children from Palestine and Israel also came and had the same experience that society at home would not accept co-mingling.
2
Even Madeline Albright said Arafat would have been a fool to sign that agreement !!!!!
1
As long as the Palestinians demand what they call the right of return and the old city of Jerusalem be given to them Israel is justified in keeping it all.
If Israel has to give the Palestinians things then the Palestinians can not get all they demand.
Cohen doesn't see this is because he doesn't care,
Why does he write so many articles that criticize Netanyahu and write so many less about really evil people.
It is clear he hates Netanyahu.
I want to know why.
Even if Netanyahu is corrupt how does that justify Cohen using that to criticize the policy he has towards the Palestinians,
Why hasn't he written about Abbas who has not been elected therefore has no right to govern has been very corrupt and has made demands Israel would be crazy to accept.
If Israel has to give the Palestinians things then the Palestinians can not get all they demand.
Cohen doesn't see this is because he doesn't care,
Why does he write so many articles that criticize Netanyahu and write so many less about really evil people.
It is clear he hates Netanyahu.
I want to know why.
Even if Netanyahu is corrupt how does that justify Cohen using that to criticize the policy he has towards the Palestinians,
Why hasn't he written about Abbas who has not been elected therefore has no right to govern has been very corrupt and has made demands Israel would be crazy to accept.
14
Once a person or a family or a people owns something they usually won't give it up until forced to do so. Even after being forced to give it up, they claim it as their own.
Something about ownership corrupts us all.
See "United States of America: Jim Crow."
Something about ownership corrupts us all.
See "United States of America: Jim Crow."
4
"James Baker, as United States secretary of state, once gave the number of the White House switchboard and told the Israelis: “When you’re serious about peace, call us.” Trump should give his alter ego the same treatment — and wait for those investigations to run their course."
Baker did something else that was even more effective. He convinced the elder Bush to suspend military subsidies to Israel, The Israelis came around very quickly.
The way to get Israel to negotiate in good faith is there & it's obvious. What's lacking is a president w/ the guts & the decency to take that way.
Baker did something else that was even more effective. He convinced the elder Bush to suspend military subsidies to Israel, The Israelis came around very quickly.
The way to get Israel to negotiate in good faith is there & it's obvious. What's lacking is a president w/ the guts & the decency to take that way.
16
Once again, Roger Cohen fails to acknowledge the elephant in the room. Why does he so studiously avoid the subject of international law? Only the application of international law can right the wrongs committed against the Palestinian people and ensure peace.
The US government and those media pundits that continue avoid the subject of international law will be held responsible for the inevitable anarchy and chaos on this planet.
The US government and those media pundits that continue avoid the subject of international law will be held responsible for the inevitable anarchy and chaos on this planet.
7
If both sides were serious about peaceful co-existence, they would agree that a small area in Israel would be newly designated, for a specific period of time, as an "international" city (with its own 5 page charter, provided by Israel) to be jointly run by Israelis and Palestinians. The City would have its own water supply and defense would be provided by Israel, subject to a City Court, jointly-trusteed. The purpose would be to make Israelis and Palestinians comfortable working with each other. The initial population would be drawn equally from Israel and from the Palestinian territory. After the period, say ten years were up, the original people would vote on whether they believed the mission had been a success. By then, Netanyahu and the the current palestinian leaders would be gone and new leaders installed. What would this gain ? Showing how people of different backgrounds can work together. Oh yes, all prayer services of either religion would be open to all--that would be mandatory. Where would this land be ? Let someone else figure that tough one out.
2
On December 2, 1947 the University of Al-Azhar religious scholars, the most respected in the Sunni Muslim word, called for holy war against the Zionists.
How can there be peace unless this fatwa is rescinded?
How can there be peace unless this fatwa is rescinded?
7
At the same time that Israel is becoming transparently corrupt and xenophobic, when its Prime Minister openly declares his intent to steal another people's land, as the suffering of the Palestinians becomes ever more unbearable - the US Congress is considering passing a law that would literally throw people in jail and fine them a $1,000.000 for daring to advocate the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement. Putting aside the blatant unconstitutionality of this law, the question needs to be asked: what are Israel's supporters so terrified of that they are willing to use the full power of the state to crush any kind of dissent? The answer is obvious - they are afraid of the truth coming out and actually making a dent in the American political mind.
8
The Prime Minister did NOT openly declare his intent to steal another people's land.
If Palestinians were willing to live in peace, they wouldn't be suffering.
If Palestinians were willing to live in peace, they wouldn't be suffering.
7
It is important to remember that it is illegal to deal in stolen property. Netanyahu must not be allowed to negotiate the so-called "facts on the ground". Any and all negotiations must be within the boundaries of international law.
6
Stealing is taking something that you know doesn't belong to you. The settlers are not stealing because they believe the Bible which says that the land belongs to the Jews.
2
at the very least the US needs to stop subsidizing settlements. for every dollar spent on settlements the US should reduce by 1000 or 10,000 or a million dollars of foreign aid to Israel. the Palestinians are not without their many faults, but Israeli intransigence on Palestinian statehood is not in the best interests of the US. if trump is really for American first he needs to take the Israelis to task.
7
The first settlement on the West Bank after the Six Day War was Kfar Etzion. The land was bought by Jews in 1927. In 1929, Palestinians destroyed the settlement. In the 1930, Jews rebuilt the settlement, but again it was destroyed by Palestinians. It was rebuilt in 1943, but destroyed again in 1948. 157 Jews were murdered. 4 Jews survived. It was rebuilt by the survivors in 1967. Why should Jews be punished for living in Kfar Etzion?
8
another solution could be a hybrid "2 states, 1 nation" as described here:
http://2states1homeland.org/en
we are really talking about a 'state of mind' rather than the traditional if not outdated nation of boundaries and borders. Everyone chooses their affiliation and is governed by the rules of that state. In those cases when the laws conflict, special courts and panels set precedents and enforce them accordingly.
http://2states1homeland.org/en
we are really talking about a 'state of mind' rather than the traditional if not outdated nation of boundaries and borders. Everyone chooses their affiliation and is governed by the rules of that state. In those cases when the laws conflict, special courts and panels set precedents and enforce them accordingly.
The US has always been coy about the Israeli Palestinian Peace. I provides the Israelis with 100% military, political, economic and diplomatic and wonders why they don't make progress on peace with the Palestinians who have no bargaining power. Then it asks why there is no peace progress. It is clear that Trumps emissaries are blissfully ignorant of the state of affairs and somehow feel that they have to go through the motions because that is what US administrations have always done.
5
The biggest issue with Netanyahu is that he is increasingly aligned with the ultra orthodox Jews and that poses some big tests for Israel, because increasingly the state is moving from being a secular Democracy based on Jewish identity to becoming another religious state like Iran and this impacts the whole nature of Israel. If you are a convert to Judaism and want to move to the country, you have to be converted by an ultra orthodox Rabbi, they don't recognize anyone but themselves as authentic, and this is now more and more encoded in the state of Israel. Likewise, claiming the right of return has become a lot narrower for Jews, it involves very narrow definitions. More importantly, the settlements that are illegal by the very accords Israel signed are for the ultra orthdox, these are state subsidized and are because of the very large families the ultra orthodox have. Netanyahu is a symptom of the problem, in a generation the ultra orthodox will be the majority there, and then what happenns? Does Israel go on a campaign, as the ultra orthodox want, to expand borders to the ones supposedly held in ancient times? Does the state become a religious theocracy, not based on Islam, but orthodox Judaism? And at what point do her allies realize it is turning into another Iran, albeit one dependent on the US and West in terms of subsidies.
6
Which party has rejected every proposal for the so-called "two-state solution?" Which party walked away from negotiations after being offered an incredibly generous proposal nine years ago and for all practical purposes has stayed away from serious negotiations ever since? Which party has reneged on all its important commitments under the Oslo Accords? Which party has had to be bribed to even pretend to negotiate?
From Cohen's op-ed, one would think it must be Israel.
Sorry, guys and girls; it's been the Palestinian Arabs.
From Cohen's op-ed, one would think it must be Israel.
Sorry, guys and girls; it's been the Palestinian Arabs.
17
No other Israeli leader - including giants like, David Ben-Gurion, or Golda Meir had remained in power as long as Bibi is.
14 years, is way too long for such politically educated, dynamic, gregarious, and by-god opinionated society as Israelis are, to tolerate one man rule them as long as Bib has been doing.
Corruption-schroption, either way, it is time for Bibi to leave office, and let younger, more visionary, pragmatic leaders to take over and lead Israel in right direction of peace with Palestinians on a solution of two-states for two people.
14 years, is way too long for such politically educated, dynamic, gregarious, and by-god opinionated society as Israelis are, to tolerate one man rule them as long as Bib has been doing.
Corruption-schroption, either way, it is time for Bibi to leave office, and let younger, more visionary, pragmatic leaders to take over and lead Israel in right direction of peace with Palestinians on a solution of two-states for two people.
3
No matter who is Israel's prime minister there won't be peace because the Palestinians don't want peace.
6
While Roger might feel quite proud of himself for ripping into Bibi, the facts are not on his side.
The Israeli economy is booming.
Israel is a high tech haven, made even more remarkable given its small geographical size, limited natural resources, and population of 8 million or so.
There has been a blossoming of open friendships between Israel and of Arab, African, Eastern European, and Asian countries.
There will be peace as soon as the Palestinians find their Mandela.
Until then, heroes like Bibi will work as hard as they can to protect Israel's citizens.
No, Israel is not a perfect country. There no doubt is corruption, fraud, racism, and lots of other ills afflicting Israeli society.
But any objective look at Israel's detractors shows that those detractors are much worse. (is liberal Google or Facebook pounding down the doors to set up locations in Iran or Syria or even in Ramallah ?)
Notwithstanding what Roger thinks.
The Israeli economy is booming.
Israel is a high tech haven, made even more remarkable given its small geographical size, limited natural resources, and population of 8 million or so.
There has been a blossoming of open friendships between Israel and of Arab, African, Eastern European, and Asian countries.
There will be peace as soon as the Palestinians find their Mandela.
Until then, heroes like Bibi will work as hard as they can to protect Israel's citizens.
No, Israel is not a perfect country. There no doubt is corruption, fraud, racism, and lots of other ills afflicting Israeli society.
But any objective look at Israel's detractors shows that those detractors are much worse. (is liberal Google or Facebook pounding down the doors to set up locations in Iran or Syria or even in Ramallah ?)
Notwithstanding what Roger thinks.
16
Roger Cohen is right about Bibi Netanyahu, a man with no vision other than winning the next election through whatever divisive means necessary. But just once I would so like to see Mr. Cohen take the Palestinians to task for their part in this conflict: their century-long violent rejection of Zionism, their multiple refusals to accept offers of statehood, the political leadership's repeated failure to prepare the Palestinian people for compromise, their cynical manipulation of victimhood and unending grievance, and their overriding obsession on destroying Israel rather than building their own state. Just once, Mr. Cohen, just once.
7
One state, two states, no states, all states. In 1948, long before Netanyahu, much of the Levant became effectively Judenfrei. Most of these 800,000 Sephardic Jews left with their clothing and not much else, and some still long for their homeland, however impracticable. An Iraqi Seder was enough to convince me of that. So, why is it that Israel with 0.1% of the relevant geography is always deemed responsible for a demographic solution? What about Jordan, once most of the British Mandate for Palestine, whose population is majority Palestinian -why not a two state solution there (Black September notwithstanding)?
13
I wonder, is it harder for Netanyahu, with so few international friends, to obfuscate and deflect his problems by slamming Arabs and defending land grabs? Or is it harder for Trump, with so many outraged friendly countries, to play on America's innate racism, the frustrations of blue collar workers and the greed of hyper-wealthy Americans?
My heart goes out to Israel...and the Arabs. But we're both in a bad place. And our President is much worse and his potential reach to do harm much greater. Still their approach to being found out and found wanting is eerily similar.
My heart goes out to Israel...and the Arabs. But we're both in a bad place. And our President is much worse and his potential reach to do harm much greater. Still their approach to being found out and found wanting is eerily similar.
2
In the past 40 years, Israel has annexed ZERO territory.
4
Although I'm more worried about the pernicious hold Israel has on our political process and our foreign policy, not to mention the tax payer money they love to take from us, a couple of things are becoming clearer.
Netanyahu will go down in history as the Palestinian's best friend. The man who single-handedly just to stay in power, changes Israel into a a one-state majority Palestinian country called Palestine (as it always was)
Netanyahu with any luck and support from Trump, will hasten Iran to become a nuclear state
Netanyahu will go down in history as the Palestinian's best friend. The man who single-handedly just to stay in power, changes Israel into a a one-state majority Palestinian country called Palestine (as it always was)
Netanyahu with any luck and support from Trump, will hasten Iran to become a nuclear state
2
If the Jews and the Arabs can live together in America they could live together in Israel and Palestine in a unified country.
Under this plan entire Jerusalem would simultaneously belong to everybody.
No borders, no reason for anybody to be crossed by the borders…
No dissatisfaction, no hatred, no wars…
It could be done. We only need the skillful leadership, optimism and love for our neighbors…
The statements that we cannot live together are just a cheap excuse for the perceived hatred and animosity.
I came here as a refugee from ex-Yugoslavia. All those people that fought each other in the Balkans a quarter century ago had previously believed in Tito and his unity program, mere 75 years ago. United they defeated the Nazis, the fascists and the local collaborators. Afterwards they stopped even Stalin and the Red Army from meddling into their internal affairs and developed an independent course for the developing world.
If you don’t know how to accomplish something please don’t claim it’s impossible.
Try harder to find the better way and solutions…
The crucial point of Tito’s vision is that the central part of ex-Yugoslavia called Bosnia and Herzegovina became a connecting link between the Serbs and the Croats instead of the deep wound dividing them.
The very moment they betrayed those sacred principles they started fighting each other again.
It’s not about the people but the principles we believe in.
With the right principles everything is possible…
Under this plan entire Jerusalem would simultaneously belong to everybody.
No borders, no reason for anybody to be crossed by the borders…
No dissatisfaction, no hatred, no wars…
It could be done. We only need the skillful leadership, optimism and love for our neighbors…
The statements that we cannot live together are just a cheap excuse for the perceived hatred and animosity.
I came here as a refugee from ex-Yugoslavia. All those people that fought each other in the Balkans a quarter century ago had previously believed in Tito and his unity program, mere 75 years ago. United they defeated the Nazis, the fascists and the local collaborators. Afterwards they stopped even Stalin and the Red Army from meddling into their internal affairs and developed an independent course for the developing world.
If you don’t know how to accomplish something please don’t claim it’s impossible.
Try harder to find the better way and solutions…
The crucial point of Tito’s vision is that the central part of ex-Yugoslavia called Bosnia and Herzegovina became a connecting link between the Serbs and the Croats instead of the deep wound dividing them.
The very moment they betrayed those sacred principles they started fighting each other again.
It’s not about the people but the principles we believe in.
With the right principles everything is possible…
1
The answer is a single state solution.
Trust me, it could be done and function properly.
I saw it with my very eyes. I lived in such a country.
That’s why I am such a strong believer…
Trust me, it could be done and function properly.
I saw it with my very eyes. I lived in such a country.
That’s why I am such a strong believer…
8
Not everyone liked living in Yugoslavia.
6
Ronald,
you are absolutely right. Not everyone liked living in Yugoslavia.
However, that's why we use the term 'fools". They don't know what in their best interest is.
The direct consequences of destruction of Yugoslavia were the civil wars that killed a couple hundred thousand people and displaced a million individuals of different nationalities that previously used to be protected and live together.
That's why I use the term the fools for the people that wanted Yugoslavia dismantled. They didn't understand what was protecting them...
you are absolutely right. Not everyone liked living in Yugoslavia.
However, that's why we use the term 'fools". They don't know what in their best interest is.
The direct consequences of destruction of Yugoslavia were the civil wars that killed a couple hundred thousand people and displaced a million individuals of different nationalities that previously used to be protected and live together.
That's why I use the term the fools for the people that wanted Yugoslavia dismantled. They didn't understand what was protecting them...
1
This article is well written. As usual. Mr. Cohen knows how to write, to stimulate, to engage.And to blame. Bibi. Trump...and many etc's.And if we choose to move out of the constrained s/he is to blame, and will ourselves to look at what each of us, here, there, in lots of places, have done, and continue to do, to enable the influential Bibi's to do what they should not be doing, as well as not to do, what they shouldn't be doing, and the complex, nuanced, multidimensional range in between will that help to create a much needed culture of taking our own personal responsibility? The Bibi's, Trumps, and other policy makers akin to them, are our doings. Whether we voted for them. Or not. Willful blindness, deafness, ignorance, to what is happening which shouldn't be, and not happening which should be created and sustained, in Hebrew, Arabic, English, Chinese, Russian, and many other languages, continues, daily, by many of us,Whatever our ideological beliefs. And cop-outs.We need the Cohen's to help us both to know and to better understand the range of viable options which exist to begin, and to continue, to make much needed changes in our violating world. Bibi, Trump, etc. are easy, visible targets. Our myopia is treatable! Hysterical, non-neurological paralysis is changeable.We can begin by moving a small toe, lifting a pinky, and not being self-satisfied by "fingering" THEM, while not acknowledging our own roles and then actually making good enough changes. Daily. Now!
5
This thoughtful column is certain to attract standard responses from organizations and individuals. My own non-Jewish response is perhaps less standard. I very much regret that the US and other victors in World War II did not offer some of their own territory to create an independent Jewish state after the Holocaust. For example, New York City along with some adjacent agricultural parts of upstate and Long Island or New Jersey could have been a substitute for the current unworkable state of Israel. Naturally the US and its allies would have had to compensate fully those dispossessed by such a gift, but the price in retrospect would have been well worth paying. As it is, the occupied territories have become a de facto part of Israel, used for residential rather than purely military outposts. And no Arab citizen of Israel can ever aspire to be prime minister or president. An impossible future awaits that part of the world.
17
the idea of offering nyc and its environs is ... well foolish, there is no historical basis for that. the jewish people returned to their original homeland. as for the dispossession of the local arabs, the greatest mistake the international community did was not to impose a sudetenland solution; the ethnic cleansing of the entire population of arabs in israel (and the west bank). after ww2 the allies agreed to ethnically cleanse 3 million german speakers from czechoslovakia ending their over 700 presence there; this act brought the restored czech state stability. at some point israel may have to consider the same to bring order to the region and guarantee its survival.
4
I often had that same thought. I wanted to write a novel about it called "They Made the Bronx Bloom".
1
Why can't an Arab citizen of Israel be prime minister?
2
I've always had a problem with the argument that Israel is entitled to keep the West Bank because it is land that is "the inheritance of our ancestors," referring to the territory ruled by the Kingdom of Israel thousands of years ago.
The first problem is that the very same land was also conquered by the ancestors of today's Arabs, the ancestors of today's Europeans, the ancestors of today's Turks, and the ancestors of many others. There is no principled basis for selecting any particular point in the past that should decide whose ancestral claims will prevail in today's world. Why should the conquests of King David determine today's national borders, but not the conquests of Selim I (the Ottoman), Cyrus the Great (the Persian), Raymond IV (the Crusader), or Pompey (the Roman)?
The second problem with this argument is that it only invites further conquest. If Israel's right of possession owes to ancient conquest confirmed by 1967 conquest, then another party can just as rightly claim possession by another conquest - not just of the West Bank, but in fact of all of Israel.
In the modern world, the answer must be negotiations. Israelis and Palestinians must work out their future by agreement, not by force.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
The first problem is that the very same land was also conquered by the ancestors of today's Arabs, the ancestors of today's Europeans, the ancestors of today's Turks, and the ancestors of many others. There is no principled basis for selecting any particular point in the past that should decide whose ancestral claims will prevail in today's world. Why should the conquests of King David determine today's national borders, but not the conquests of Selim I (the Ottoman), Cyrus the Great (the Persian), Raymond IV (the Crusader), or Pompey (the Roman)?
The second problem with this argument is that it only invites further conquest. If Israel's right of possession owes to ancient conquest confirmed by 1967 conquest, then another party can just as rightly claim possession by another conquest - not just of the West Bank, but in fact of all of Israel.
In the modern world, the answer must be negotiations. Israelis and Palestinians must work out their future by agreement, not by force.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
32
Ecco, your argument is flawed. The only sovereign states in The Land have been Jewish. Jews have been a continuous presence, in greater or lesser numbers, there since biblical times. It is the Jewish homeland. The same cannot be said for the foreign invaders. The Ottoman, Persian, Crusader, and Roman presence has been the presence of outsiders, of invaders, and only for relatively temporary periods of time.
6
Israel's signing peace treaties with Egypt & Jordan even though that meant giving up significant parts of Biblical Israel shows that Israel values peace more than territory.
9
what about the us conquest of the native peoples here? should the land be returned, since we violated negotiated settlements. clean your own house first.
2
As long as the Israeli invasion by occupation of the West Bank continues with no attempt to ameliorate the humiliation and suffering of the Palestinians, Islamic fury toward the West - going back to 1968 and Sirhan Sirhan - will grow, with consequences that are more apparent by the year.
5
In 1948, the West Bank Palestinians asked for union with Jordan. So when Jordan attacked Israel in 1967, it was the West Bank Palestinians also attacking Israel. The occupation is the result of that attack against Israel.
12
So what do you suggest Pete? Just leave unilaterally as Israel did in Gaza and South Lebanon, ending up with two Iranian-backed terror groups on its borders spending all their time either plotting to destroy Israel and the second Jewish genocide this would require? How will Israel ending up with the same nightmare in the West Bank advance peace? We're dying to know, Pete. Share with us your wisdom.
5
The talk of how Israel may or may not be interested in a 2 state solution anymore is very interesting, and this is because it assumes that the Palestinians are sitting and waiting for the day they finally get the state that the 2 state solution will give them. There has been an established consensus as to what the 2 state solution deal will be since the 90's. The Palestinians had at least 5 or 6 different chances to accept this deal at any of those 5 or 6 peace talks, but instead all of them ended with them simply walking away from the table.
So what basis is there at all to this assumption that the Palestinians have any interest in the 2 state solution. Polls of the Palestinian public show that the majority see the only resolution of the conflict as the disappearance of Israel from the face of the earth. This is what the teach children in their schools, and they name streets upon streets in addition to public squares after Hamas terrorists who murdered Israeli civilans for the purpose of "liberating Palestine", which means getting rid of Israel.
It most certainly seems that the idea that the Palestinains have any interest in a 2 state solution is based not on facts or evidence, but is nothing more than than something that western diplomats and journalists take for granted based on nothing other than its an artilce of faith with them.
Journalists may want to think of taking on a project to research and find out if the Palestinians are at all interested in a 2 state solution.
So what basis is there at all to this assumption that the Palestinians have any interest in the 2 state solution. Polls of the Palestinian public show that the majority see the only resolution of the conflict as the disappearance of Israel from the face of the earth. This is what the teach children in their schools, and they name streets upon streets in addition to public squares after Hamas terrorists who murdered Israeli civilans for the purpose of "liberating Palestine", which means getting rid of Israel.
It most certainly seems that the idea that the Palestinains have any interest in a 2 state solution is based not on facts or evidence, but is nothing more than than something that western diplomats and journalists take for granted based on nothing other than its an artilce of faith with them.
Journalists may want to think of taking on a project to research and find out if the Palestinians are at all interested in a 2 state solution.
54
So make a one state solution.
And one person one vote.
And let the refugees return.
And one person one vote.
And let the refugees return.
2
Michael, the Palestinians were never offered a fair deal. Hey, you folks in Brooklyn evacuate your homes now, homes in which your ancestors lived in continuously for 14 centuries, because the ancestors of a people who lived in the region 2,000 years ago want to move in. You will not be compensated for your loss in any way, and you will lose all human rights. The newcomers may let you have a postage stamp size corner of Brooklyn to squeeze into, but they will control every aspect of your life. Does that appeal to you? Will you love your oppressor?
1
Israel's Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu has repeatedly offered negotiations without preconditions. In contrast, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has refused to talk, while seeking unilateral statehood, and inciting violence.
Perhaps the real reason for the current Palestinian situation is that the Palestinian cause never had a positive vision. Its primary goal has always been to negate and ultimately dismantle Israel. If Palestinian leaders had been prepared for coexistence, there could have been a Palestinian state alongside Israel in 1948, 1967, 2001, and 2008.
Imagine how different the region would be if the Arab world had looked
forward as did tiny Israel, after it survived the 1948 Arab invasion? Israel absorbed and uplifted all the Jewish refugees from Arab countries. It built a modern economy while under siege. In stark contrast, Palestinian and other Arab leaders offered the Palestinians nothing more than incitement, endless victimhood and armed struggle. Until that is replaced by a positive vision, both Israelis and
Palestinians will continue to suffer.
Perhaps the real reason for the current Palestinian situation is that the Palestinian cause never had a positive vision. Its primary goal has always been to negate and ultimately dismantle Israel. If Palestinian leaders had been prepared for coexistence, there could have been a Palestinian state alongside Israel in 1948, 1967, 2001, and 2008.
Imagine how different the region would be if the Arab world had looked
forward as did tiny Israel, after it survived the 1948 Arab invasion? Israel absorbed and uplifted all the Jewish refugees from Arab countries. It built a modern economy while under siege. In stark contrast, Palestinian and other Arab leaders offered the Palestinians nothing more than incitement, endless victimhood and armed struggle. Until that is replaced by a positive vision, both Israelis and
Palestinians will continue to suffer.
39
Israel offered negociations without preconditions? Really? Is Israel prepared for a Palestinian state with total control of their borders, their airspace, their aquafiers? A Palestinian state that can build a military force that, if not to match the IDF, would be able to give it a real fight? Show me the - proposed - agreement to that.
Where are the borders anyway that Israel is prepared to negociate? I would presume the 1967 borders? No preconditions means that Israel should be prepared to tell those that are living in settlements on the West Bank that they might be on notice to leave.
Put it this way, for the past 50 years or so, Israel made it their policy to make a clean split impossible. They've succeeded.
Jews, after WWII, sought a country for their own to be safe, to be independant. Rightly so, I can't fault them for that wish. Their ancient land seemed the way go. However, it seems they forgot / dismissed the simple fact that for centuries other people called it home too.
Where are the borders anyway that Israel is prepared to negociate? I would presume the 1967 borders? No preconditions means that Israel should be prepared to tell those that are living in settlements on the West Bank that they might be on notice to leave.
Put it this way, for the past 50 years or so, Israel made it their policy to make a clean split impossible. They've succeeded.
Jews, after WWII, sought a country for their own to be safe, to be independant. Rightly so, I can't fault them for that wish. Their ancient land seemed the way go. However, it seems they forgot / dismissed the simple fact that for centuries other people called it home too.
3
Absolutely correct! To say nothing of their coorupt and incompetent leaders who have robbed them blind and the other arab countries who want no part of them.
6
imagine if the losers of wars were to be given their lost lands back, where is the incentive not to go to war again. if the palestinians are to get what they lost, how about restoring all the lands seized from germany that today are part of poland and russia? or mexico gets back california and the sw?
3
Maybe the Israeli constitution should have added something to the phrase Mr. Cohen quotes, leaving it like this:
“...freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel" WHEN THEY ENVISAGED FREEDOM, JUSTICE AND PEACE.
Because the Israeli right also inherits the Prophets' less democratic and liberal moments.
History has been a bloody thing.
I am not blaming people for turning to the right after so many years of attacks on Israel, after so many uncompromising Arab leaders using the Israeli question to deflect attention from their own countries' unsolved problems, after the failure of a Western liberal approach, even at the hands of politicians as smart as Carter, Clinton and Obama.
But to inaugurate a new era of Jewish history, one where we again have a political home of our own on the planet, by depriving another people, the Palestinians, of their well-being; that bodes ill. That makes me sad.
Have we learned nothing?
Is "do unto others..." just an empty slogan?
Is it that after two thousand years of not running a political, territorial country; after two thousand years of being on the run so damnably often, we Jews have kind of lost the knack for living realistically in the world as people in peace?
It would not surprise me. It would be understandable.
All I would ask is that we think about things in this perspective.
Let the light of reason shine on this without the intervention of our passions.
And if we're so smart, let's insist. Let's make peace happen.
“...freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel" WHEN THEY ENVISAGED FREEDOM, JUSTICE AND PEACE.
Because the Israeli right also inherits the Prophets' less democratic and liberal moments.
History has been a bloody thing.
I am not blaming people for turning to the right after so many years of attacks on Israel, after so many uncompromising Arab leaders using the Israeli question to deflect attention from their own countries' unsolved problems, after the failure of a Western liberal approach, even at the hands of politicians as smart as Carter, Clinton and Obama.
But to inaugurate a new era of Jewish history, one where we again have a political home of our own on the planet, by depriving another people, the Palestinians, of their well-being; that bodes ill. That makes me sad.
Have we learned nothing?
Is "do unto others..." just an empty slogan?
Is it that after two thousand years of not running a political, territorial country; after two thousand years of being on the run so damnably often, we Jews have kind of lost the knack for living realistically in the world as people in peace?
It would not surprise me. It would be understandable.
All I would ask is that we think about things in this perspective.
Let the light of reason shine on this without the intervention of our passions.
And if we're so smart, let's insist. Let's make peace happen.
6
Israel is small. Militarily it has no defense-in-depth. I've always thought Netanyahu's position was pretty clear - once Iran, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon accept Israel and disavow any threats towards it and, at a minimum, establish ties with Israel such as Jordan has - the peace process can begin in earnest. If I'm not mistaken, Netanyahu once stated this might take another two generations.
8
So why do they keep building more and more settlements, taking more and more Palestinian land?
2
... yet we tolerate him. Just further evidence of the hippocricy.
Let's not pull our punches. He is a bigot, a nationalist, a fascist, a liar, and a cheat.
Let's not pull our punches. He is a bigot, a nationalist, a fascist, a liar, and a cheat.
13
Mr. Cohen seemingly ignores the multiple offers made to the Arabs that have been turned down, including proposals that the 'elected for 4 years but serving for 13+" President Mahmoud Abbas co-authored and then rejected. He also seems to ignore the Israeli offer to make the 1949 Armistice Line a permanent border that was rejected by the Arab League, and Israeli Prime MInister Levi Eshkol's offer of the same terms in 1965, two years before Jordan attempted to seize more of Israel and wound up losing the lands it had seized in 1949. It may be that he is just forgetful of these clearly recorded historical events, but I have a feeling that he may be ignoring them in his eagerness to paint Mr. Netanyahu in as unflattering a manner as is possible.
The only point of agreement that I can possibly find with Mr. Cohen is that yes, Israeli supervision of the West Bank (as well as the embargo of Gaza) need to end. However, unlike Mr. Cohen, I cannot ignore the fact that these areas are what the Arabs have made them to be. Rather than developing their own state in the lands that they control, the Arabs have continued to promote the idea that the entire region will become a single Arab state, and have devoted most of their resources (including foreign aid money) towards attacking Israel rather than trying to develop an independent Palestinian state that would trade with and benefit from its Israeli neighbor. As a result, the need for security reigns.
It takes two to make peace.
The only point of agreement that I can possibly find with Mr. Cohen is that yes, Israeli supervision of the West Bank (as well as the embargo of Gaza) need to end. However, unlike Mr. Cohen, I cannot ignore the fact that these areas are what the Arabs have made them to be. Rather than developing their own state in the lands that they control, the Arabs have continued to promote the idea that the entire region will become a single Arab state, and have devoted most of their resources (including foreign aid money) towards attacking Israel rather than trying to develop an independent Palestinian state that would trade with and benefit from its Israeli neighbor. As a result, the need for security reigns.
It takes two to make peace.
49
I support a 2-state solution even if Netanyahu or the Palestinians do not. In 1947, The UN passed a resolution that granted the refugee Jewish population a small piece of Palestine, which the Jewish population was willing accept. The Arab response - invasion. When the Israelis were winning that war of independence, they strongly encouraged the Arab population not to flee - in an overwhelming (but not total) number of cases. The Arab states scared them into fleeing. This is borne out by actual history if anyone bothers to learn it. As a result of the cease-fire, the Israelis would up with more territory than the UN partition resolution would have given them - which they had originally been willing to accept - the pre-June 1967 borders. And we all know how the Occupied Territories in June 1967 became the Occupied Territories. At the Oslo accords in the 1990's, the Palestinians would have achieved over 90% in territory in exchange for peace. But Arafat, realizing that he would be abandoning the ultimate and unabated Arab aim of eliminating all of the Jews from Palestine, backed out at the last minute. Netanyahu can be replaced. But changing the attitude of the Palestinians is another story altogether.
18
I believe everything written here. But I won't judge him on that. He has been in power too long, lost touch with the people who elected him and by virtue of time in office alone is subject to corruption. Time for someone else.
2
Roger Cohen is right to stress the importance of the investigation into the submarine affair, the corruption scandal involving procurement of German-supplied submarines. What Cohen doesn't mention is that these submarines are armed with nuclear-tipped long range cruise missiles, obviously aimed at Iran. If there were any doubt about this, Netanyahu laid it to rest with a boastful speech at the arrival, in January 2016, of the latest submarine from Germany. He didn't use the word "nuclear" but the message was unmistakable. Israel now has ordered three more of these expensive boats. Whether this order--which the Israeli defense minister opposed--was related to the opportunity for bribes is something that the investigators will have to unearth.
4
Good column but I would add it matched by a similar "no-state" attitude on the part of the Arab world and the Palestinians who are also never ready to really make peace, and though give some lip service to some kind of rump Israeli state when useful, but plot, scheme, and plan to eventually have it all from "the river to the sea."
Each side feels a total victory is possible if they are patient. Both are wrong, neither can be made to give up.
Its another conflict that can only be managed, not solved. Best way to manage seems to promote economic progress, tone down rhetoric, and try to get the international community to control their impulses to help make things more violent and worse for all, instead promise both sides more aide if they ever get to a settlement.
Each side feels a total victory is possible if they are patient. Both are wrong, neither can be made to give up.
Its another conflict that can only be managed, not solved. Best way to manage seems to promote economic progress, tone down rhetoric, and try to get the international community to control their impulses to help make things more violent and worse for all, instead promise both sides more aide if they ever get to a settlement.
27
Does your reference to the "'no-state' attitude on the part of the Arab world" include all of Israel's neighbors who have made peace with Israel and aggressively work with Israel to ensure Israel's security and territorial integrity? (Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc?)
Even in the era of false equivalence, this comment stands out.
Even in the era of false equivalence, this comment stands out.
8
This post employs the usual cover-up answer: both sides are equally at fault! No. One side has all the power. And only that side can take viable steps toward changing the deadlock.
8
I wonder what will happen in a couple of decades, when the arab population is more numerous than the jewish population, in Israel?
"When you’re serious about peace, call us."
Was peace ever a possibility? Is peace more or less likely now than it was 50 years ago? Than 69 years ago? Will it ever be a possibility?
Has any power, no matter how strong, ever won a war of aggression?
How much land must Israel take before it is safe?
Why did Baker leave the decision on timing of peace up to Israel?
This column does not answer any important questions.
Was peace ever a possibility? Is peace more or less likely now than it was 50 years ago? Than 69 years ago? Will it ever be a possibility?
Has any power, no matter how strong, ever won a war of aggression?
How much land must Israel take before it is safe?
Why did Baker leave the decision on timing of peace up to Israel?
This column does not answer any important questions.
8
Yes, former secretary of state James Baker was dismissive towards the Israelis. but let's not forget what he told Palestinian negotiators in Madrid in 1991:
“With you people, the souk never closes, but it is closed with me. Have a nice life.”
The unfortunate reality is few, if any in the Arab world are willing to allow a Jewish state in their midst, no matter where the borders are drawn. Right leaning Israelis know this, while left-leaning Israelis seem to think that the establishment of a Palestinian state will lead to cessation of hostilities and a friendly peace. There is little basis to conclude this. Do we have any reason to think that the chances of peace in the region would be much different if Netanyahu were not leading the country?
“With you people, the souk never closes, but it is closed with me. Have a nice life.”
The unfortunate reality is few, if any in the Arab world are willing to allow a Jewish state in their midst, no matter where the borders are drawn. Right leaning Israelis know this, while left-leaning Israelis seem to think that the establishment of a Palestinian state will lead to cessation of hostilities and a friendly peace. There is little basis to conclude this. Do we have any reason to think that the chances of peace in the region would be much different if Netanyahu were not leading the country?
26
Absolutely correct. The Arabs and so called Palestinians never have wanted peace and never will accept Israel in their midst. They had their chance to agree to peace many times and refused. So Israel is quite right to methodically take over the entire area and push the Palestinians as far away as possible. No more knifing of Israelis in the markets
8
Israel has been a model for the US to follow for a long time. And we have, from targeted assignations to rigged elections where large parts of the population are disenfranchised to perpetual wars for no purpose except themselves.
17
Once again we are told that peace is within Israel's grasp, if it only choose to seize it with a leader enlightened like Roger Cohen. What hogwash! There is no genuine Arab peace partner to make peace with. Even the "moderate" Abbas and Fatah call for Jihad, reject any Jewish sovereignty in the region, regardless of borders, and avoid negotiations without preconditions. The Gaza withdrawal showed us what will happen if land is handed to Palestinians. Does Mr. Cohen want Israel to commit suicide by creating yet another failed Arab state next door?
48
Yours is the only valid argument. It would be funny if weren't so tragic. Writers like Cohen are 99% right, only that the 1% missing is the decissive force: he as many others DISREGARDS the "taqiyyah" Muslim factor.
Let's try his maneuver here but in reverse: what if Israel gets rid of Bibi and the coming leader helps to create a Palestinian state. In no time, the Hezbollah/Hamas/Iran combo could ... will ... may establish "that" regime which will implement "the river to the sea" amply declared, shouted Islamic objective.
And yet, who confronts Cohen to such a small but ominous 1%?
If you had a box with 100 pounds of M&Ms and one is poisoned, would you try?
Bibi could be a problem but he IS NOT the existential one for the only democracy in a sea of authoritarism, mayhem and destruction. An authoritarism that repeatedly promotes Israel demise to all who care to listen.
Let's try his maneuver here but in reverse: what if Israel gets rid of Bibi and the coming leader helps to create a Palestinian state. In no time, the Hezbollah/Hamas/Iran combo could ... will ... may establish "that" regime which will implement "the river to the sea" amply declared, shouted Islamic objective.
And yet, who confronts Cohen to such a small but ominous 1%?
If you had a box with 100 pounds of M&Ms and one is poisoned, would you try?
Bibi could be a problem but he IS NOT the existential one for the only democracy in a sea of authoritarism, mayhem and destruction. An authoritarism that repeatedly promotes Israel demise to all who care to listen.
6
Naysayer, you are absolutely correct. At 87, I've lived through it all. The UN voted for a two-state solution in 1947. The Jews accepted and five Arab states invaded saying they were going to drive out and kill the Jews. A "cold peace" ensured when the infant state of Israel was formed and in 1967 Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran which prevented Israel from sailing from its single southern port, Eilat, to the open sea for its trading around the world. The 1973 war did bring a peace between Israel and Egypt which is still in force. Realize, the Arabs (Jordan) controlled not only the old city of Jerusalem as well as the West Bank from 1948 until 1967 when Jordan attacked Israel on orders from Nasser. Israel responded by driving the Jordanian army not only out of Jerusalem, but the West bank as well as Jordan's army fled back to Jordan. The bottom line is simple and quite obvious. The Arabs (Palestinians) have never emotionally accepted the birth of Israel and to this day do not recognize its right to exist. Iran states this positions almost on a daily basis. The Palestinians and other Arabs have been their own worst enemies. It's so crazy that today, when Palestinians need medical care they cannot get at home, many go to Israel for treatment. As an aside, Israel has treated thousands of Syrians in need of medical services during Assad's war with his own people.
8
The Jews and the Arabs are the perfect match for each other.
Both sides claim to be on God’s path. Both sides claim they are trying to secure “freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets”.
How?
By the endless occupation, aggression, violence and killings?!
Israel is just a payback for the ancient Arabs that spread “the faith” by occupying the other tribes and imposing own culture in the name of the Almighty. Now when they are personally on the receiving end of such a treatment they don’t like it at all and find it unjust, unfair and unfaithful.
Surprise, surprise! Those actions have been improper over the last 14 centuries. How come they suddenly became the late bloomers?! They don’t like now their own medicine any longer?
The conflict between the Jews and the Arabs will not be over until the humanity finally understands the true faith.
The true faith has nothing to do with the control of territory, the ancient tribes, and their human culture, clothing, dogmas, personal names, traditions, language and hubris.
The faith is just a set of universal principles for the humanity.
Those claiming to have the exclusive right on the faith are not faithful…
The faith is just an ancient software that runs the society without the wars, occupations, bloodsheds, looting, oppression and injustice…
Do not steal, lie, and crave for the neighbor’s belongings. Respect the elderly. Take a day off. Do not follow blindly any politician instructing you otherwise…
Both sides claim to be on God’s path. Both sides claim they are trying to secure “freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets”.
How?
By the endless occupation, aggression, violence and killings?!
Israel is just a payback for the ancient Arabs that spread “the faith” by occupying the other tribes and imposing own culture in the name of the Almighty. Now when they are personally on the receiving end of such a treatment they don’t like it at all and find it unjust, unfair and unfaithful.
Surprise, surprise! Those actions have been improper over the last 14 centuries. How come they suddenly became the late bloomers?! They don’t like now their own medicine any longer?
The conflict between the Jews and the Arabs will not be over until the humanity finally understands the true faith.
The true faith has nothing to do with the control of territory, the ancient tribes, and their human culture, clothing, dogmas, personal names, traditions, language and hubris.
The faith is just a set of universal principles for the humanity.
Those claiming to have the exclusive right on the faith are not faithful…
The faith is just an ancient software that runs the society without the wars, occupations, bloodsheds, looting, oppression and injustice…
Do not steal, lie, and crave for the neighbor’s belongings. Respect the elderly. Take a day off. Do not follow blindly any politician instructing you otherwise…
14
"Occupation" by definition is about having military control over an area. If the Palestinian Arabs were willing to stop trying to destroy Israel and would instead develop their own state within the lands that they hold, there would be no "occupation" at all.
A question that no one seems to ask is this, "Why is it acceptable for the Palestinian state to demand that it be free of Jews?" Why do we accept the idea that there should be no Jewish inhabitants in the Eastern half of the Old City of Jerusalem, a place with a documented Jewish presence for thousands of years, simply because the Arab League forced them out in 1949? Would we find it acceptable if cities in Poland were to make a similar statement, that Jews could no longer live there because they were all removed during WW2? Is there even a single person who would consider it to be acceptable for Israel to say that all the Arabs now living within its sovereignty would have to leave and go to the Palestinian Arab state? But we all seem to accept that coming from the Arabs.
When the Palestinian Arabs stop teaching their children that the whole region is a single Arab state, there may be an opportunity for peace. When the religious leadership of the Palestinian Arabs stops glorifying terrorists and 'martyrs' who attack Israelis, there may be an opportunity for peace. When the Palestinian Authority stops paying money to those who attack Israelis, there may be an opportunity for peace.
The 2 faiths can coexist.
A question that no one seems to ask is this, "Why is it acceptable for the Palestinian state to demand that it be free of Jews?" Why do we accept the idea that there should be no Jewish inhabitants in the Eastern half of the Old City of Jerusalem, a place with a documented Jewish presence for thousands of years, simply because the Arab League forced them out in 1949? Would we find it acceptable if cities in Poland were to make a similar statement, that Jews could no longer live there because they were all removed during WW2? Is there even a single person who would consider it to be acceptable for Israel to say that all the Arabs now living within its sovereignty would have to leave and go to the Palestinian Arab state? But we all seem to accept that coming from the Arabs.
When the Palestinian Arabs stop teaching their children that the whole region is a single Arab state, there may be an opportunity for peace. When the religious leadership of the Palestinian Arabs stops glorifying terrorists and 'martyrs' who attack Israelis, there may be an opportunity for peace. When the Palestinian Authority stops paying money to those who attack Israelis, there may be an opportunity for peace.
The 2 faiths can coexist.
10
Israel is a secular state. Israel does not commit murder in the name of God.
2
The bane of Israel's existence is the rapidly growing orthodox community that has kept Bibi in office. Like all hack politicians, are there any other,,Bobi supports & panders to their wishes.If Israel is the Jews chosen land, then what comes next, animal sacrifices ? No one of good will is against a Jewish Homeland, the blood of millions demand it.Modern Judaism rejects the oppression of all people, & realizes the Torah is a History of an ancient people, & should be held in awe, but it has not evolved, If Israel is to survive it must retain it’s secular dominance, & rid itself of the Bibi’s & their ilk.
It’s beyond the time for compromise & freedom for the Palestinian people.It’s a shame that we must wipe clean, & tomorrow is too late.
It’s beyond the time for compromise & freedom for the Palestinian people.It’s a shame that we must wipe clean, & tomorrow is too late.
30
The Palestinians have never been interested in having their own state.
They could have declared independence in 1948.
Instead, they asked for union with Jordan.
They could have declared independence in 1948.
Instead, they asked for union with Jordan.
6
They were supposed to have their own state, what is now Jordan was supposed to be the Palestinian homeland, but the British nixed that in favor of recognizing the Hashemite Saudi's who had basically fled Saudi Arabia and grabbed Jordan for their own, this partition plan was agreed to by all parties, but thanks (once again) to British stupidity and to the Saudis, things got blown up that should have happened.
4
Jack,
That was 1948, this is 2017, it's time for Israel to become a true Democracy & either bring the Palestinians into a Federation of two States or cut them loose & give them their own independent State.The current occupation is untenable, & will end in disaster for Israel.A greater Israel is not worth the blood of someones Son or Daughter, that goes for both sides.
That was 1948, this is 2017, it's time for Israel to become a true Democracy & either bring the Palestinians into a Federation of two States or cut them loose & give them their own independent State.The current occupation is untenable, & will end in disaster for Israel.A greater Israel is not worth the blood of someones Son or Daughter, that goes for both sides.
2
Israeli annexation plans have been discussed openly in the Israeli press for years. Some argue for annexing only the existing settlements. Others argue for more territory and some claim the entire West Bank and argue that containment and military control should shift to more forceful ethnic cleansing.
Yet in the US media we continue the fantasy that there is something called a peace process going on. While various US presidents have talked "two state" by doing nothing to advance that position they have effectively endorsed the current policy of slow ethnic cleansing.
Netanyahu said very little about the brownshirts marching in Charlottesville because he didn't want to pile more criticism onto Trump. He's got Trump completely in his back pocket, so why upset this relationship?
Trump's abandonment of the two state option may be no more that simple recognition of what his predecessors did, but wouldn't say. And like his predecessors he offers 4.5 million human beings nothing as an alternative. Not integration into a democratic Israel with full citizenship rights, not some new territorial option, if there even is such a thing.
So Palestinians will go into their third generation of military occupation, Gaza its twelfth year of military blockade. The US may be past the point of being able to influence Netanyahu, but it's never too late to speak the truth.
The Israeli press has been clear about what is really happening. Isn't it time for the NYTimes to do the same?
Yet in the US media we continue the fantasy that there is something called a peace process going on. While various US presidents have talked "two state" by doing nothing to advance that position they have effectively endorsed the current policy of slow ethnic cleansing.
Netanyahu said very little about the brownshirts marching in Charlottesville because he didn't want to pile more criticism onto Trump. He's got Trump completely in his back pocket, so why upset this relationship?
Trump's abandonment of the two state option may be no more that simple recognition of what his predecessors did, but wouldn't say. And like his predecessors he offers 4.5 million human beings nothing as an alternative. Not integration into a democratic Israel with full citizenship rights, not some new territorial option, if there even is such a thing.
So Palestinians will go into their third generation of military occupation, Gaza its twelfth year of military blockade. The US may be past the point of being able to influence Netanyahu, but it's never too late to speak the truth.
The Israeli press has been clear about what is really happening. Isn't it time for the NYTimes to do the same?
30
Every time Israel offers to end the occupation, the Palestinians say “No!”
Even Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia (certainly not a Zionist) said that Arafat’s refusal to accept the January 2001 offer was a crime. Thousands of people would die because of Arafat’s decision & not one of those deaths could be justified.
As Clinton later wrote in his memoir:
It was historic: an Israeli government had said that to get peace, there would be a Palestinian state in roughly 97 percent of the West Bank, counting the [land] swap, and all of Gaza, where Israel also had settlements. The ball was in Arafat’s court.
But Arafat would not, or could not, bring an end to the conflict. “I still didn’t believe Arafat would make such a colossal mistake,” Clinton wrote. “The deal was so good I couldn’t believe anyone would be foolish enough to let it go.” But the moment slipped away. “Arafat never said no; he just couldn’t bring himself to say yes.”
Even Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia (certainly not a Zionist) said that Arafat’s refusal to accept the January 2001 offer was a crime. Thousands of people would die because of Arafat’s decision & not one of those deaths could be justified.
As Clinton later wrote in his memoir:
It was historic: an Israeli government had said that to get peace, there would be a Palestinian state in roughly 97 percent of the West Bank, counting the [land] swap, and all of Gaza, where Israel also had settlements. The ball was in Arafat’s court.
But Arafat would not, or could not, bring an end to the conflict. “I still didn’t believe Arafat would make such a colossal mistake,” Clinton wrote. “The deal was so good I couldn’t believe anyone would be foolish enough to let it go.” But the moment slipped away. “Arafat never said no; he just couldn’t bring himself to say yes.”
7
Whether Bibi is innocent or guilty of the "corruption" accusations being hurled at him, those are matters of "First World" concern.
The problem is not one of "occupation" in the West Bank, since every historian knows thiat the term "Zionist Occupation" either originated with, or was in use by, the Bolsheviks and Arab allies by 1920 as part of their anti-British propaganda.
No, the problem is that even the "moderate" Palestinian leadership is a terrorist organization, led by Mr. Abbas, whose PhD thesis at Patrice Lumumba Peoples' Friendship University (that's Russia as in Communist times) was that the Holocaust happened, but it was invented by Jews in order to found Israel. Thus, the Hamas-PLO/PLA argument is one between the Hitler and Hess factions of a common core of terrorists vying for state power.
Under Bibi, Israel has avoided a major war, unlike all the Labor PMs extolled by the anti-Bibi media, including the NYTimes, and if he serves this full term, he will have been PM longer than anyone. Rather than harp on whether Bibi has misused his political position for private gain (maybe he should have set up a foundation), those alleged misdeeds have nothing to do with peace. However, the murderous, hanging crimes to which the Palestinian leadership is dedicated from top to bottom, do.
The problem is not one of "occupation" in the West Bank, since every historian knows thiat the term "Zionist Occupation" either originated with, or was in use by, the Bolsheviks and Arab allies by 1920 as part of their anti-British propaganda.
No, the problem is that even the "moderate" Palestinian leadership is a terrorist organization, led by Mr. Abbas, whose PhD thesis at Patrice Lumumba Peoples' Friendship University (that's Russia as in Communist times) was that the Holocaust happened, but it was invented by Jews in order to found Israel. Thus, the Hamas-PLO/PLA argument is one between the Hitler and Hess factions of a common core of terrorists vying for state power.
Under Bibi, Israel has avoided a major war, unlike all the Labor PMs extolled by the anti-Bibi media, including the NYTimes, and if he serves this full term, he will have been PM longer than anyone. Rather than harp on whether Bibi has misused his political position for private gain (maybe he should have set up a foundation), those alleged misdeeds have nothing to do with peace. However, the murderous, hanging crimes to which the Palestinian leadership is dedicated from top to bottom, do.
33
It is amazing what we'll ignore in the interest of selling expensive weapons to the Israelis and Sauds.
18
Two narcissistic demagogues in a slow dance to nowhere. One wonders what Jared must think about his role. The whole business is pathetic.
4
Better still, pull ALL support from Israel, financial and military, until they cease unlawful occupation.
67
And perhaps stop sending money to Hamas until they stop building tunnels, and stop sending money to the PA until they stop funding the families of suicide attackers for life and....Right.
5
The occupation is legal because Israel was attacked.
4
Netanyahu is under investigation in Israel.
Netanyahu's wife is under investigation in Israel.
Netanyahu is under investigation internationally for war crimes.
Netanyahu's family friend Kushner Sr. is a convicted criminal.
Netanyahu's family friend Kushner Jr. is under investigation in the US.
... and Israeli voters consider Netanyahu their champion ???
This does not reflect well on the people of Israel.
Netanyahu's wife is under investigation in Israel.
Netanyahu is under investigation internationally for war crimes.
Netanyahu's family friend Kushner Sr. is a convicted criminal.
Netanyahu's family friend Kushner Jr. is under investigation in the US.
... and Israeli voters consider Netanyahu their champion ???
This does not reflect well on the people of Israel.
45
And how does Trump, Obama, Clinton, LBJ and Nixon reflect? Wait, Obama has no reelection in the mirror.
1
Netanyahu was elected multiple times by the citizens of Israel.
Thump's election says something about the citizens of the USA just as Netanyahu's election says something about the citizens of Israel.
Thump's election says something about the citizens of the USA just as Netanyahu's election says something about the citizens of Israel.
13
Likud won less than a quarter of the votes for the Knesset in 2013 and 2015. Because Israel has perhaps the most fractionalized electoral system among the world's democracies, Netanyahu was forced to make deals with the religious and conservative parties to forge a majority coalition. The American system is designed to encourage majoritarian outcomes. The Israeli system is designed to represent every sliver of opinion in the Knesset. In no way are the results for the Israel PM comparable to those for an American president.
Netanyahu is a snake who's increasingly desperate, but about half of the people who recognize the name believe he's a 'war hero'. He's not--he parlayed his brother's sacrifice into a political career, and looks more like the Israeli Trump every day.
Bibi's a snake, but the peace process doesn't rest on Israel.--the majority if Israelis still hate the occupation. Just a few years ago, the majority of Israelis wanted to give up land for peace--that changed when it became evident that there was no partner on the other side. Hamas and Hezbollah remain committed to genocide, and when Israel left Gaza and its infrastructure behind, they got rockets, tunnels, and knife attacks in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
That's what's given Bibi legs.
Bibi's a snake, but the peace process doesn't rest on Israel.--the majority if Israelis still hate the occupation. Just a few years ago, the majority of Israelis wanted to give up land for peace--that changed when it became evident that there was no partner on the other side. Hamas and Hezbollah remain committed to genocide, and when Israel left Gaza and its infrastructure behind, they got rockets, tunnels, and knife attacks in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
That's what's given Bibi legs.
12
COM,
Israel occupies the West Bank, and there is no Hamas in the West Bank. As I recall, the last time Israel invaded Gaza, eleven Israeli soldiers doing the invading were killed by Hamas. And Israel killed 400 Palestinian children plus one thousand six hundred women and the elderly. I do not know what you will call this, but most reasonable people of good conscience will call it a MASSACRE by Israel.
It is that reality that Cohen is talking about, brutal occupation changing the very foundation and character of Israel contrary to the principles of its founding. I assume you rightly love Israel but hate Nitanyahu's policies, you and millions like you who are friends of Israel should not allow friends, that is Israel drive drunk.
For the future is either a full blown Apartheid or a Binational democratic state, one that is not Jewish anymore. If you wish Israel to remain both a Jewish State and democratic, the only alternative is a two state solution as envisioned in Camp David and later Taba.
Israel occupies the West Bank, and there is no Hamas in the West Bank. As I recall, the last time Israel invaded Gaza, eleven Israeli soldiers doing the invading were killed by Hamas. And Israel killed 400 Palestinian children plus one thousand six hundred women and the elderly. I do not know what you will call this, but most reasonable people of good conscience will call it a MASSACRE by Israel.
It is that reality that Cohen is talking about, brutal occupation changing the very foundation and character of Israel contrary to the principles of its founding. I assume you rightly love Israel but hate Nitanyahu's policies, you and millions like you who are friends of Israel should not allow friends, that is Israel drive drunk.
For the future is either a full blown Apartheid or a Binational democratic state, one that is not Jewish anymore. If you wish Israel to remain both a Jewish State and democratic, the only alternative is a two state solution as envisioned in Camp David and later Taba.
The pretense of Israel existing as an open, Western style democracy is quickly fading from memory, if it ever truly existed at all. Prime Minister Netanyahu is now openly pursuing policies and objectives once reserved for American White Nationalists: politicizing an ethnic identity, establishing a politicized homeland reserved for people of their own kind, prohibiting miscegenation with others deemed incapable of assimilation, and demanding the right to determine the fate of those unlucky enough to have already occupied the land deemed sacred by the impassioned Zealous.
17
Despite being under existential threats since the day it was born, Israel ranked 29 out of 167 on the Economist's Democracy Index.
4
Jack, the Democracy Index measures the degree of democracy practiced within a political State, in the case of Israel half of the nation's defacto population and territory has been under military rule for 50 years but is not officially counted as part of the Israeli state. Jewish settlers moving into the military zone, however, are allowed enfranchisement and are counted as part of Israel's demographic population. My statement stands.
What Mr. Cohen terms “obscene schemes” (a plan to annex a Jewish town in the vicinity of Jerusalem) are viewed by the majority of Jewish Israelis as a small and first, much belated, step. And the cute “No-State Solution” is another figment of the American liberal mind. All indications -- from the settlement gradual but constant development to the Israeli public opinion and government’s policies and the Palestinians’ weakness and internal strife -- are that the most probable historical outcome (within less than a decade) is the “Greater Israel Solution” . In Israel, only the confused and helpless remnants of the “Left” view such a solution as obscene.
As to the “Baker Solution”, its usefulness was limited and short-lived. Now, with Israel hording more than $36 billion appropriated to Netanyahu’s government for the next ten years by the so anti-Israeli Obama and with submarines equipped with nuclear-tipped medium-range (according to foreign sources) cruise missiles (the real unacknowledged scandal), Israel will demand from the White House a hefty compensation for spending time with Trump’s weird-bunch of relatives and messengers – and Jerusalem will get it.
As to the “Baker Solution”, its usefulness was limited and short-lived. Now, with Israel hording more than $36 billion appropriated to Netanyahu’s government for the next ten years by the so anti-Israeli Obama and with submarines equipped with nuclear-tipped medium-range (according to foreign sources) cruise missiles (the real unacknowledged scandal), Israel will demand from the White House a hefty compensation for spending time with Trump’s weird-bunch of relatives and messengers – and Jerusalem will get it.
1
Trump has avoided consequences so long he has forgotten there are consequences for words and behaviors, esp. for endorsing marching American white nationalists chanting Nazi slogans while carrying clubs and guns. He loses credibility and reliability with Israel and Jews, although this week he bragged about being able to negotiate a peace between Israel and the Palestinians. No way! His ego-driven, me-first approach to Mexico, South Korea, NATO, his manic insistent on hyperbole and threats and declarations of premature greatness, his lies of ease and success before any results have been achieved make nations wary of him.
Trump never seeks peace on its own terms. Any deal must anoint him and be bigger, better than any before and he thinks threats are incentives. None of this bodes well for a Middle East peace engaging Israel. Wise and wary, with their own internal issues, the country will avoid entanglement with Trump at any cost.
Trump never seeks peace on its own terms. Any deal must anoint him and be bigger, better than any before and he thinks threats are incentives. None of this bodes well for a Middle East peace engaging Israel. Wise and wary, with their own internal issues, the country will avoid entanglement with Trump at any cost.
3
Both Israel and the United States should abandon their political parties and existing political alliances, and form fusion coalitions of the most moderate elements of both major parties. That way the extremists at both ends of the spectrum can be frozen out and ignored, and some actual progress made.
The right wing "Freedom Caucus" has undue influence over Republican politics, just as the right wing splinter parties in the Likud coalition have such undue influence. And in both cases, the majority suffers, progress is non existent, and what is wrong continues to fester. Put those Talibans in a position where they can be ignored. Trump's working out a debt ceiling/storm relief deal with the Dems was very heartening.
The right wing "Freedom Caucus" has undue influence over Republican politics, just as the right wing splinter parties in the Likud coalition have such undue influence. And in both cases, the majority suffers, progress is non existent, and what is wrong continues to fester. Put those Talibans in a position where they can be ignored. Trump's working out a debt ceiling/storm relief deal with the Dems was very heartening.
2
I have an awesome deal on a bridge in a large metro area that can be yours for a song. Interested?
Roger, we understood exactly where you were taking us with those first 3 paragraphs and we were right.
What a strange new Israel-USA world we are seeing. In Israel a No State solution appearing as the worst of all worlds for both Israelis and Palestinians, but worse than the worst for the Palestinians.
And here Trump playing Netanyahu, setting the stage not for a No State solution, but creating fertile ground for the American neo-Nazis set on a Two-State solution, one for those who are "white-by-law", the other for those who are not.
Welcome to the No-Solution Decade II, 21st Century.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
What a strange new Israel-USA world we are seeing. In Israel a No State solution appearing as the worst of all worlds for both Israelis and Palestinians, but worse than the worst for the Palestinians.
And here Trump playing Netanyahu, setting the stage not for a No State solution, but creating fertile ground for the American neo-Nazis set on a Two-State solution, one for those who are "white-by-law", the other for those who are not.
Welcome to the No-Solution Decade II, 21st Century.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
6
@Larry Lundgren; If you are really concerned about these issues, why are you there and not here, either in the US to defeat Trump and his agenda, or in the Occupied Territories fighting to prevent a further deterioration of living standards for the Palestinian people.?Positions for peace activists in the Territories and in Israel proper go begging.Understand also there are tremendous problems in Sweden due to the decision by the political classes to open the doors to hundreds of thousands of unassimilated immigrants, action taken without a referendum, without the consent of the voters. Care to comment? Always assured of getting published by EB if you are willing to denigrate the c-in-c , and NETANYAHU among others who are defending Western civilization.You would be taken more seriously if you were actually involved in bringing about a viable solution in the ME between Palestinians and Israelis. Easy to pontificate from the sidelines.
1
Israel and the US seem to have a lot in common, a despicable leader, the consistent searching for a nemesis to justify abusing its power as a country and the obvious ignoring of its "founding charter". Sad!
32
as oppposed to the shining beacon of hatred, president for life Abbas?
16
"The prime minister, a survivor"
One of the keys to being a successful politician is to know when to call it quits, preferably before someone does it for you.
Mr. Netanyahu has many skills; this is not one.
Too much power indeed corrupts and many of the sandals in which he is involved might be defined as mishegas, which could have been avoided if he had called it quits a number of years ago.
Some are of a more serious nature.
Up until now he has walked between the judicial raindrops.
So much for PMSI (Prime Minister of the State of Israel).
Now for the other side of the coin, a side that we rarely if ever here about from Mr. Cohen.
Mr. Abbas et co. of the Palestinian Authority are totally corrupt (at least Mr. Netanyahu stands for elections). I wait to read one day about this in an op-ed from Mr. Cohen. He must know about this because I am sure that he reads Amira Hass in ha-Aretz:
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.713733 This is just one of many (and she anti-Zionist).
I am also waiting to read from Mr. regarding the willingness of the Palestinians to reach a deal, a deal, not "justice", that would be acceptable to Avi Gabbai, new head of centrist Mahane Zioni or to Yair Lapid of centrist Yesh Atid. I wait to read from Mr. Cohen regarding such a viable plan: pick and leave has been tried; just brings death and war.
“When you’re serious about peace, call us.”--that applies to both sides. Will one ever read this in Mr. Cohen's op-eds?
One of the keys to being a successful politician is to know when to call it quits, preferably before someone does it for you.
Mr. Netanyahu has many skills; this is not one.
Too much power indeed corrupts and many of the sandals in which he is involved might be defined as mishegas, which could have been avoided if he had called it quits a number of years ago.
Some are of a more serious nature.
Up until now he has walked between the judicial raindrops.
So much for PMSI (Prime Minister of the State of Israel).
Now for the other side of the coin, a side that we rarely if ever here about from Mr. Cohen.
Mr. Abbas et co. of the Palestinian Authority are totally corrupt (at least Mr. Netanyahu stands for elections). I wait to read one day about this in an op-ed from Mr. Cohen. He must know about this because I am sure that he reads Amira Hass in ha-Aretz:
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.713733 This is just one of many (and she anti-Zionist).
I am also waiting to read from Mr. regarding the willingness of the Palestinians to reach a deal, a deal, not "justice", that would be acceptable to Avi Gabbai, new head of centrist Mahane Zioni or to Yair Lapid of centrist Yesh Atid. I wait to read from Mr. Cohen regarding such a viable plan: pick and leave has been tried; just brings death and war.
“When you’re serious about peace, call us.”--that applies to both sides. Will one ever read this in Mr. Cohen's op-eds?
11
Given the choice between peace and land, Israel has always chosen land over peace, except when strategically worthless (Gaza, Sinai).
But we, the US, are not any better.
The native Indian population was driven into reservations in the most worthless corners of the US.
Israel is copying the US. Face it.
But we, the US, are not any better.
The native Indian population was driven into reservations in the most worthless corners of the US.
Israel is copying the US. Face it.
7
Israel either gives up the West Bank and Gaza or gives up any claim to being a democracy and joins the ranks of racist apartheidism. Netanyahu's government's moral failings notwithstanding, the time for Israeli obfuscation should be over. I assume they are wishing Trump well in creating chaos all over the rest of the world so they can continue their project of ghettoizing the Palestinians but history rarely sustains such crimes over the long run. I am a 100% supporter of Israel's right to exist and believe they can live side by side with a Palestinian state which would quickly realize that it needed Israel more than Israel needs them. But the current situation is morally bankrupt and will lead nowhere but more pain and sufferering on both sides.
5
11
Yes...and they run it like an open air prison.
There is no injustice in Jews reclaiming their only homeland. Two states for two peoples: Jordan for Muslims (with no Jewish citizens allowed), and Israel for Jews and all her minorities, including 20% Muslims. Both states carved out of British Palestine -no need for further redivision. Over 50 Muslim states, all backwaters - talk about redundancy! The Jews are the expropriated indigenous populationin the Holy Land, resident since biblical times, not the Arab colonists who conquered a millennium later. The risks Israel took for peace - withdrawal from Lebanon and Gaza- engendered only aggression from Hezbollah and Hamas. Should Israel repeat those mistakes in the West Bank? Most Israelis disagree. Only enemies of Israel's existence want to establish a Hamas caliphate next to Tel Aviv . Israel will continue to resettle her inheritance, including Judea and Samaria, with pride and a clean conscience. As it fights jihad endlessly, the West will come to realize that anti-Zionism is a prejudice it can ill afford.
21
I completely agree.
Funny that people who are obsessed with hating Israel don’t seem to have a problem with Pakistan, when it was created under very similar circumstances at exactly the same time (1947-48) by the very same British colonial power specifically as a homeland for an oppressed religious minority (in Pakistan’s case, Muslim Indians persecuted by Hindu Indians).
But I never hear Pakistan’s right to existence challenged…..hmm, I wonder why.
Funny that people who are obsessed with hating Israel don’t seem to have a problem with Pakistan, when it was created under very similar circumstances at exactly the same time (1947-48) by the very same British colonial power specifically as a homeland for an oppressed religious minority (in Pakistan’s case, Muslim Indians persecuted by Hindu Indians).
But I never hear Pakistan’s right to existence challenged…..hmm, I wonder why.
5
It seems that the writer truly believe Abas is serious About peace ? The one that never missed opportunity to miss any opportunity or every opportunity are the Palestinian. Please read Abas speexh s at a he UN. Soliciting for hatred and violence.
21
The Israelis know the Palestinians and the Arab street in general will never accept Israel as a permanent entity in the Middle East. So they are done pretending that this will ever happen, or if, by some miracle, it does, that the world will be more accepting of a Jewish state.
So blame Israel all you want. They're used to it and guess what - they don't care what you think.
BTW - America's moral authority to have a say in this matter are rather clouded by the occupation of Afghanistan for the past 17 years, for no good reason. Not to mention the death and destruction it creates all over the world. Glass houses and all that.
So blame Israel all you want. They're used to it and guess what - they don't care what you think.
BTW - America's moral authority to have a say in this matter are rather clouded by the occupation of Afghanistan for the past 17 years, for no good reason. Not to mention the death and destruction it creates all over the world. Glass houses and all that.
18
Truth was the first victim in Israel, as it is now. Neither society can survive based on lies. Both Israel and the U.S. have countless wonderful people who could have societies that are models for the world. Both countries are trashing the best, yielding to an extreme right wing vision that spells only self-destruction. Will both societies submit to the cultists (the Jewish people have done that many times in the past, each time ending in destruction)?
4
Gutsy column. And yet there are enough Israeli's to elect him not once, but four times. There is an opposition and an Israeli Peace Movement, which gets little coverage in the American media.
The dream of the early Kibbutzniks of a social democratic and inclusive Israel has been supplanted by the recent wave of immigrants from Russia and ultra religious adherents some of whom still cheer Yitzhak Rabin's assassination and long for the release of Yigal Amir his assassin.
The dream of the early Kibbutzniks of a social democratic and inclusive Israel has been supplanted by the recent wave of immigrants from Russia and ultra religious adherents some of whom still cheer Yitzhak Rabin's assassination and long for the release of Yigal Amir his assassin.
1
Please tell me about the Palestinian Peace Movement and the opposition to President for life Abbas.
6
Prime Minister Netanyahu and American White Nationalists share many common objectives: politicizing an ethnic identity, establishing a politicized homeland reserved for people of their own kind, prohibiting miscegenation with others deemed incapable of assimilation, and demanding the right to determine the fate of ethnic minorities unlucky enough to have occupied the land deemed sacred by the impassioned Zealous.
2
The truth is always in front of us. We have just chosen to ignore it!
There are not chosen people. That’s just the human deception, hubris and conceit, some kind of “better and holier than you” mentality!
Those who believe to be personally chosen obviously lack the true faith.
God has no preferences regarding the people He created…
We are not made faithful by an act of birth but through our system of values and personal choices we have made and adhere too.
The true faith has no nationality, no race, no ethnicity, no religion, no gender, no age and no party affiliation…
There are not chosen people. That’s just the human deception, hubris and conceit, some kind of “better and holier than you” mentality!
Those who believe to be personally chosen obviously lack the true faith.
God has no preferences regarding the people He created…
We are not made faithful by an act of birth but through our system of values and personal choices we have made and adhere too.
The true faith has no nationality, no race, no ethnicity, no religion, no gender, no age and no party affiliation…
3
"No democracy can be immune to running an undemocratic system for half a century in territory under its control."
Hmm, where does that leave the U.S. exactly? After running just such a 'democracy' - slavery for hundreds of years, removal of the Native Americans to reservations and general slaughter?
If you travel you realize that the world looks at America without the blinders of our lifelong fantasy of ourselves. They like our success, our power, our entertainment value. But for the rest they say "Whom do you think you are kidding?"
Hmm, where does that leave the U.S. exactly? After running just such a 'democracy' - slavery for hundreds of years, removal of the Native Americans to reservations and general slaughter?
If you travel you realize that the world looks at America without the blinders of our lifelong fantasy of ourselves. They like our success, our power, our entertainment value. But for the rest they say "Whom do you think you are kidding?"
2
Could the investigations of the Prime Minister and his wife accomplish what Israel's fractious and fractured politics could not---the retirement of Mr. Netanyahu? If so, it may show that Israel's justice and law enforcement systems still work and that the reports of the end of democracy and public accountability in Israel are greatly exaggerated. We shall soon see.
24
It is time to talk openly of the one state " solution " that gives equal rights to all the people of the land, including those forced out in 1948. The slow genocide of Palestinians must stop. The unequal laws must be abolished. The people must share the land as equals, and no religious or ethnic background should dominate the others. The status quo cannot last.
3
why should there be one state if the arabs were offered a state in 1948 but said no and went to war and lost? why do they keep getting a do over? are they adults worthy of a state or petulant children inclined to fits of rage when they do not get what they want? i would posit they haven't demonstrated they deserve a country and they are welcome to live in the plethora of culturally identical countries such as Egypt (where Arafat came from), Lebanon or Jordan, but alas these countries will not grant them citizenship and have historically massacred them. read your history all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
2
@Mary: All the bromides, platitudes, cliches in the world will not change the facts on the ground, which, "bref,"make any effort at a 1 state solution impossible. "Sharing the land as equals,where no 1 religious group or ethnic background should dominate,"such a beau ideal will not stop 1 Hamas militant from posing a bomb,blowing himself up in order to allegedly advance the Intifada. Who is in a better position to know: Netanyahu,veteran of Special Forces of IDF, speaking fluent Arabic, Hebrew, and language of the Druse, or us naive Americans? Israelis live with the problem. We do not. Palestinians consider Israelis interlopers. Israelis consider themselves pioneers.You say status quo cannot last. But it has for almost 70 years, and barring a change of heart by terror groups in the Occupied Territories for which the destruction of the state of Israel is on their urgent agenda, an uneasy status quo will prevail. How can you negotiate with folks who believe you should be driven into the sea?This is not a negotiating position. Hamas leaders regard it as an article of faith!They believe it!
2
Does that mean that Jews will be allowed in Hebron and other "no go" locations in Area A within Judea and Samaria that are currently controlled by the PA.
2
The is an alternative to the no-state solution: the one-and-a-half-state solution. Palestinians should visit the Navajo Reservation and learn how it is live in a "half-state": a high degree of internal autonomy, but demilitarized and to some extent controlled by the nation that defeated them.
1
Israelis would not give to Palestinians the status as Israeli citizens that the Navajo have as Americans. They'll demilitarize and control them, but not give them rights such as immigration controls or definition of membership.
4
What's that saying about leopards and their spots? Trump emulate James Baker? When pigs fly.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
2
Forget Bibi Netanyahu! We have dramatically worse problems here at home!
We need the leaders capable of being quiet and humble in order to protect the country and preserve the national prestige.
Remember president Obama when he claimed the use of chemical weapons would be the red line in Syria?
Nobody asked him to say it. He said it and trapped himself with the enormous liability.
Mr. Trump learned nothing. Being loud and obnoxious does not solve the problems.
A few weeks ago he threatened North Korea with fire and fury the world had never seen before.
That wasn’t just a red line, but an enormous thick red wall underlining the incompetence of the White House.
The worst part is that we got the red wall for free, instantly constructed and trapping us with our own stupidity…
No president has the right to declare the war against anybody!
If they do they should be instantly impeached. According the US Constitution only the US Congress has the right to declare the war.
It means both Obama and Trump should have been impeached for public violation of the US Constitution.
If they weren’t it wasn’t their fault but ours…
We need the leaders capable of being quiet and humble in order to protect the country and preserve the national prestige.
Remember president Obama when he claimed the use of chemical weapons would be the red line in Syria?
Nobody asked him to say it. He said it and trapped himself with the enormous liability.
Mr. Trump learned nothing. Being loud and obnoxious does not solve the problems.
A few weeks ago he threatened North Korea with fire and fury the world had never seen before.
That wasn’t just a red line, but an enormous thick red wall underlining the incompetence of the White House.
The worst part is that we got the red wall for free, instantly constructed and trapping us with our own stupidity…
No president has the right to declare the war against anybody!
If they do they should be instantly impeached. According the US Constitution only the US Congress has the right to declare the war.
It means both Obama and Trump should have been impeached for public violation of the US Constitution.
If they weren’t it wasn’t their fault but ours…
Frankly, we have here at home far worse problems than Bibi Netanyahu.
Our very president Trump jumped out of the Paris climate agreement. Unfortunately, the climate agreement followed him back home as a faithful puppy…
Have you seen lately any Tweeter outburst that the global warming was just an unproven scientific hoax?
Here at home we truly have no-sense solutions.
What about James Bakes, the former secretary of state?
As the US official, he once gave the number of the White House switchboard and told the Israelis: “When you’re serious about peace, call us.”
The problem is that he continued paying them.
That makes as much sense as if the parents were funding all the bills of their student without ever asking a simple question when he was going to graduate.
With such a wrongful logic, that kid might retire straight out of college. There is no motivation for him to be in a hurry with all the bills paid for and “no question asked” policy…
Our very president Trump jumped out of the Paris climate agreement. Unfortunately, the climate agreement followed him back home as a faithful puppy…
Have you seen lately any Tweeter outburst that the global warming was just an unproven scientific hoax?
Here at home we truly have no-sense solutions.
What about James Bakes, the former secretary of state?
As the US official, he once gave the number of the White House switchboard and told the Israelis: “When you’re serious about peace, call us.”
The problem is that he continued paying them.
That makes as much sense as if the parents were funding all the bills of their student without ever asking a simple question when he was going to graduate.
With such a wrongful logic, that kid might retire straight out of college. There is no motivation for him to be in a hurry with all the bills paid for and “no question asked” policy…
1
“I [Bill Clinton] killed myself to give the Palestinians a state. I had a deal they turned down that would have given them all of Gaza, … between 96 and 97 percent of the West Bank, compensating land in Israel, you name it,”
When Arafat called Clinton a great man, Clinton responded, “The hell I am.”
“I’m a colossal failure, and you made me one,” Arafat rejected “the best peace deal he was ever going to get” …
When Arafat called Clinton a great man, Clinton responded, “The hell I am.”
“I’m a colossal failure, and you made me one,” Arafat rejected “the best peace deal he was ever going to get” …
8
Jack,
There cannot be a two-state solution. Those people have to relearn how to live together and share.
There is no solution based on prohibiting the refugees from returning home.
There is no permanent solution in giving Jerusalem to just one sectarian group.
Jerusalem is the world heritage belonging to all three religions until those learn how to merge back into a single unifying faith…
One faith for all the people. Everything that prevents such a solution is just a human misunderstanding of the key principles and misplaced cultural impunities…
There cannot be a two-state solution. Those people have to relearn how to live together and share.
There is no solution based on prohibiting the refugees from returning home.
There is no permanent solution in giving Jerusalem to just one sectarian group.
Jerusalem is the world heritage belonging to all three religions until those learn how to merge back into a single unifying faith…
One faith for all the people. Everything that prevents such a solution is just a human misunderstanding of the key principles and misplaced cultural impunities…
Is it really worth the insanity, which is the Middle East, when both sides are so bent on being proven wrong that it current situation eventually causes a World War III? Sure, Israel is the superior nation--Economy, Military, Nuclear Weaponry, etc--in so many ways. But, is that worth having to live in a Military Zone?
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
All along Netanyahu in not so subtle ways and vocabulary believes that all Palestinian lands belong to Israel---it was given to them by god, and what earthly being could possibly argue with that belief.
5
Sadly the prophets of Israel shared Netanyahu's version of peace and justice.
People are flawed. Religion makes us worse and gives us excuses for indulging our nastiest impulses.
Inheritance of our ancestors. Our land. Religion at one of its low points.
People are flawed. Religion makes us worse and gives us excuses for indulging our nastiest impulses.
Inheritance of our ancestors. Our land. Religion at one of its low points.
3
The two-state solution is dead. Only a bi-national democratic state (something like Great Britain or Switzerland) will succeed. Two cultures. One future.
2
What's the chance that a majority-Arab state will be a democracy?
2
The three-state solution:
1. Jordan, which is 75% of the original Palestine Mandate. Its rulers, the family of Hashemites, are Arabian interlopers placed on the throne by Winston Churchill in a whimsical moment in 1921. The Hashemites were imported from what is now Saudi Arabia: they are not Palestinians, and need to find a new home somewhere else in the Arab world. Abbas should rule Jordan.
2. 95% of the "West Bank," so-called because it's actually part of Jordan, the "East Bank." Let the Israelis keep their major settlements and build a very strong defense against attack along the Jordan River.
3. Gaza, now ruled by Hamas.
Let Abbas rule the first two states, and Hamas the third.
Israel should complete the two Walls, adjacent to the West Bank and to Gaza, and retaliate fiercely against all three states of Palestine if anyone from their territories fires missiles or sends suicide bombers into Israel.
Keep retaliating, for decades if necessary, until the three states of Palestine get exhausted with the endless war against the Jews, now over 100 years old.
Let the Palestinians fight a civil war to determine which government will rule the three states of Palestine in the long run: Fatah or Hamas.
1. Jordan, which is 75% of the original Palestine Mandate. Its rulers, the family of Hashemites, are Arabian interlopers placed on the throne by Winston Churchill in a whimsical moment in 1921. The Hashemites were imported from what is now Saudi Arabia: they are not Palestinians, and need to find a new home somewhere else in the Arab world. Abbas should rule Jordan.
2. 95% of the "West Bank," so-called because it's actually part of Jordan, the "East Bank." Let the Israelis keep their major settlements and build a very strong defense against attack along the Jordan River.
3. Gaza, now ruled by Hamas.
Let Abbas rule the first two states, and Hamas the third.
Israel should complete the two Walls, adjacent to the West Bank and to Gaza, and retaliate fiercely against all three states of Palestine if anyone from their territories fires missiles or sends suicide bombers into Israel.
Keep retaliating, for decades if necessary, until the three states of Palestine get exhausted with the endless war against the Jews, now over 100 years old.
Let the Palestinians fight a civil war to determine which government will rule the three states of Palestine in the long run: Fatah or Hamas.
7
i am still at a loss for when there will be a column about the the partners in this peace process and the simple fact that they have initiated violence since the day this state was born, walked away from what they were offered, been betrayed by their "brothers" steal the ungodly amount of foreign aid they are given so that their leaders can live like kings (Mrs. Arafat lives in Paris on whose money?). where is all the moral outrage for Russia, turkey, Iran and all those other places that don't deserve the right to call themselves countries they way they treat their own people and neighbors? Israel treats wounded Syrians, whereas if an Israeli found himself in Syria he would be murdered on the spot. When has a country that has been constantly attacked been expected to contort itself in the name of peace with those sworn to destroy it. What should they do when they offer things over and over (withdrawal from Gaza) and get nothing in return?
20
When the West Bankers stop teaching hate to their children, and stop making heros of terrorists, and stop making it clear that they would start a shooting war with Israel if they could, then maybe there could be peace talks. War is not a tango, it takes but one foe to start a war. But it takes two committed countries to make peace.
11
Equality and liberty, once the goals of a majority of European Jews in European countries for centuries prior to WWII, are what most American Jews want in this country. Given a choice to live in Israel or remain in the United States as citizens here, most American Jews want to remain American citizens. Israel and the United States are two-states.
Let's face facts: Palestinians living in the territories subject to Israel's military intervention want the same equality and freedom of citizenship that European Jews once wanted in Europe and Eastern Europe ---- the same rights enjoyed by both Israeli Jews in Israel and American Jews.
Scrap the unequal partition of land in a present two-territory occupation between Palestinians and Israelis. They can never agree on the rightful ownership of Palestinian land confiscated by Israeli even before the 1950s. Make all Palestinians full citizens of Israel with equal rights.
Let's face facts: Palestinians living in the territories subject to Israel's military intervention want the same equality and freedom of citizenship that European Jews once wanted in Europe and Eastern Europe ---- the same rights enjoyed by both Israeli Jews in Israel and American Jews.
Scrap the unequal partition of land in a present two-territory occupation between Palestinians and Israelis. They can never agree on the rightful ownership of Palestinian land confiscated by Israeli even before the 1950s. Make all Palestinians full citizens of Israel with equal rights.
2
Why should people who attacked Israel have equal rights with Israelis?
9
Jack: "All" Palestinians over the last generations have never attacked Israel, otherwise there would be no more of those whom you categorize as "...people who attacked Israel...."
No peace can be achieved as long as some Israeli Jews and their supporters, along with some Palestinian Arabs and their supporters, invoke the categorical "All" to the other people when they object to peace. "All" is just not true, and never was.
No peace can be achieved as long as some Israeli Jews and their supporters, along with some Palestinian Arabs and their supporters, invoke the categorical "All" to the other people when they object to peace. "All" is just not true, and never was.
It appears that United Nations created an illegal state out of the land of others. Ergo this illegal must be dismantled for peace to exist. The truth is hard to countenance just as the the spirit of man cannot be oppressed or suppressed.
2
Israel is the MOST LEGAL state because it was created by the World.
4
A few of our leaders warned us, about a century ago, when the move to create a Jewish state started to grow that it was a bad idea and could only create blowback. These men were not anti-Semites, simply individuals who could foresee the consequences that such a state would generate. But the influence of Felix Frankfurter and Lewis Brandeis (and others) "won the day" and that advice was rejected. I write this well aware of the Holocaust and pogroms and Charllotesville - aware of the clear existence of strong anti-
Semitism in this nation and in this world. The creation of Israel - seen as well-intentioned and necessary by some - has proven those leaders prescient.
Semitism in this nation and in this world. The creation of Israel - seen as well-intentioned and necessary by some - has proven those leaders prescient.
2
So why are the Jews to be held responsible for the "blowback" to their existence and forced into a perpetual diaspora? Would you hold a black family responsible for the blowback is they try to move into a segregated community in the US? Would you tell them they should have known better? Or maybe a Native American family in Georgia, say? I mean it was historically their nation before they were kicked out in the past.
7
Israel has been a great success!
There are 60 million refugees. ZERO are Jews.
Israelis are among the happiest people on earth.
There are 60 million refugees. ZERO are Jews.
Israelis are among the happiest people on earth.
5
The Israelis as a people will pay a huge price for the arrogance of Bibi one day. it is saddening, as a majority of them don't support this policy. Politics trumps all. No pun intended.
5
Please,
Let’s not blame Bibi Netanyahu for the mistakes of the UN and the White House.
Those two entities have defined Israel as the Jewish state for decades.
The Jewish state implies that the Palestinians, the Christians and the Muslims don’t belong over there because there is a huge number of the other Christian and Muslims states to relocate.
That’s the direct consequence of the mistakes made on the East River and the Pennsylvania Avenue many decades ago.
Mr. Netanyahu is just staying on the course established by the others.
If you define Israel as the democratic, secular and civil state, only then all the people are welcome and treated equally, including the individuals of the Palestinian ethnicity.
The Constitution establishing the official policy claiming the natality of the minorities is some kind of the constitutional threat cannot be construed as modern, democratic, peaceful and tolerant. The same is valid for the Constitution that prohibits the return of the refugees that fled the war carnage and deadly violence.
No politician can solve the structural problems by dealing only with the consequences.
If you want to alleviate and eliminate the consequences, focus on the cause of the conflicts!
Let’s not blame Bibi Netanyahu for the mistakes of the UN and the White House.
Those two entities have defined Israel as the Jewish state for decades.
The Jewish state implies that the Palestinians, the Christians and the Muslims don’t belong over there because there is a huge number of the other Christian and Muslims states to relocate.
That’s the direct consequence of the mistakes made on the East River and the Pennsylvania Avenue many decades ago.
Mr. Netanyahu is just staying on the course established by the others.
If you define Israel as the democratic, secular and civil state, only then all the people are welcome and treated equally, including the individuals of the Palestinian ethnicity.
The Constitution establishing the official policy claiming the natality of the minorities is some kind of the constitutional threat cannot be construed as modern, democratic, peaceful and tolerant. The same is valid for the Constitution that prohibits the return of the refugees that fled the war carnage and deadly violence.
No politician can solve the structural problems by dealing only with the consequences.
If you want to alleviate and eliminate the consequences, focus on the cause of the conflicts!
Palestinians have been oppressing Jews for centuries.
In 1839, the British consul, William Young, said that the poor Jew in Jerusalem...lives from day to day in terror of his life....Young attributed the plight of the Jew in Jerusalem to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace,”
JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
New York Times December 29, 1878
Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.
Notice the date. This was before the first Zionists arrived in Palestine. Notice the word bigotry.
In 1839, the British consul, William Young, said that the poor Jew in Jerusalem...lives from day to day in terror of his life....Young attributed the plight of the Jew in Jerusalem to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace,”
JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
New York Times December 29, 1878
Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.
Notice the date. This was before the first Zionists arrived in Palestine. Notice the word bigotry.
9
Jack,
I am no expert on the history of the Middle East.
All I know is the following - the Jews were expelled from Jerusalem by the Romans, not by the Palestinians.
I know that the Ottoman rulers (the same ones that were in charge of Jerusalem during the period you invoked, meaning both the Palestinians and the Jews were occupied and oppressed by the foreign force… Trust me, nobody wants to be ruled by the occupiers) during the Great Inquisition that either killed, converted and expelled the Jews from Spain actually invited them to resettle within the Ottoman Empire and welcomed them, allowing to keep their religion. It was kind of the leading tolerance and multicultural practice for the 15th century…
I guess the sources you invoked might be personally biased. For God sake, the British consul represented the greatest colonial empire of that time while America was fresh from slavery and racially segregated. By the way, it’s easy to be fully employed if nobody is paying you… It's called slavery...
I am no expert on the history of the Middle East.
All I know is the following - the Jews were expelled from Jerusalem by the Romans, not by the Palestinians.
I know that the Ottoman rulers (the same ones that were in charge of Jerusalem during the period you invoked, meaning both the Palestinians and the Jews were occupied and oppressed by the foreign force… Trust me, nobody wants to be ruled by the occupiers) during the Great Inquisition that either killed, converted and expelled the Jews from Spain actually invited them to resettle within the Ottoman Empire and welcomed them, allowing to keep their religion. It was kind of the leading tolerance and multicultural practice for the 15th century…
I guess the sources you invoked might be personally biased. For God sake, the British consul represented the greatest colonial empire of that time while America was fresh from slavery and racially segregated. By the way, it’s easy to be fully employed if nobody is paying you… It's called slavery...
Unfortunately, the contemporary politicians craving for their place in the historic books are trained to believe that such a place is reserved for the winners of the bloody wars. That’s our mistake.
The great leaders are not those that drowned us into the colossal bloodsheds but the ones smart enough to solve all the problems peacefully with compromises, negotiations, agreements, or creating the shared objectives and common goals.
No war in history has created anything good. It just killed the millions of people and destroyed the colossal amount of the wealth.
We have to rewrite the history books to teach our kids this crucial lessons.
Otherwise once they grow up and get elected they will be looking for the bloody conflicts in order to secure their own place in the national Parthenon of the “great leaders”
Those are not great leaders but the colossal fools... That’s why we cannot rid of the endless wars…
The great leaders are not those that drowned us into the colossal bloodsheds but the ones smart enough to solve all the problems peacefully with compromises, negotiations, agreements, or creating the shared objectives and common goals.
No war in history has created anything good. It just killed the millions of people and destroyed the colossal amount of the wealth.
We have to rewrite the history books to teach our kids this crucial lessons.
Otherwise once they grow up and get elected they will be looking for the bloody conflicts in order to secure their own place in the national Parthenon of the “great leaders”
Those are not great leaders but the colossal fools... That’s why we cannot rid of the endless wars…
You are not a small nation if you control a minimal territory and aren’t very populous but only if you cherish the pitiful values and lack the humanity to share with the others that have far less than you and urgently need the help…
The truly big ideas have no borders…
Only the big nations create the big ideas.
Remember that we are measured by the ideas that we create, not by the wars that we have waged…
The truly big ideas have no borders…
Only the big nations create the big ideas.
Remember that we are measured by the ideas that we create, not by the wars that we have waged…
Regarding the last piece of advice - that the US should say "We won't call you. You call us."
Isn't that essentially where we are? Israel - Palestinian conflicts are far off the grid of our national attention, even within our Mideast policies. Instead, we are choosing to side with Sunnis and Saudi Arabia in the Islamic Civil War. To what end? Oil politics?
Sorry. Israel's problems don't bear a footnote, compared to our own Civil War V2. And we are rapidly ceding our moral authority to the rest of the world.
Isn't that essentially where we are? Israel - Palestinian conflicts are far off the grid of our national attention, even within our Mideast policies. Instead, we are choosing to side with Sunnis and Saudi Arabia in the Islamic Civil War. To what end? Oil politics?
Sorry. Israel's problems don't bear a footnote, compared to our own Civil War V2. And we are rapidly ceding our moral authority to the rest of the world.
1
"And we are rapidly ceding our moral authority to the rest of the world."
And who exactly in "rest of the world" will gain the moral authority that you say we are ceding? Russia, China, North Korea, Iran.....??
And who exactly in "rest of the world" will gain the moral authority that you say we are ceding? Russia, China, North Korea, Iran.....??
2
No State Solution -- if that means no Jewish state -- has been the clearly articulated view of the Palestinians (or at least their leadership) and most of the Arab world since 1948. Maybe one day Mr. Cohen will acknowledge this rejectionism as an impediment to peace.
10
Likud: "It's nothing personal... It's strictly business." That's why Trump won't disturb Netanyahu's duplicity. It's business, and Trump is a businessman. However type you may characterize him, he's a businessman. Not a statesman.
A shady Herbert Hoover we don't need. A statesman, male or female, we need. More than one, for Congress could use a few, too. Who will ascend? Who will rise to the occasion? The country, the world, is watching and waiting... and the clock is ticking.
A shady Herbert Hoover we don't need. A statesman, male or female, we need. More than one, for Congress could use a few, too. Who will ascend? Who will rise to the occasion? The country, the world, is watching and waiting... and the clock is ticking.
2
Let's assume that we wake up tomorrow and learn that Israel moved back to the June 4, 1967 boundaries, vacating everything that it currently retains from the 6-day War. Do you really think that it would then be left in peace by its neighbors and its leader? If you do, persuade me.
It is unfortunate that Israel's comfortably situated and presumably smart western critics do not include this most important aspect of the situation in their criticisms.
It is unfortunate that Israel's comfortably situated and presumably smart western critics do not include this most important aspect of the situation in their criticisms.
13
I dare say some of that reaction might relate to how Palestinians have been treated by Israel and how they feel about losing their homes and land. Nobody is a saint here. Moreover, there is peace with Egypt, Syria is busy with other things, violence on the border with Lebanon is limited, and Jordan is unlikely to invade.
1
Return to the '67 lines and give peace a chance.
1
You're right, of course, 'Ol Case. Israel should have never accepted those original boundaries -- you know: the ones a third smaller than the 67 lines. Just think, 'Ol Case: no Israel!! What a world!!
For the presidents or prime ministers to be corrupted everybody else around them must be corrupted in order to tolerate and enable the wrongful behavior.
The corrupted politicians don’t serve their country and their people but themselves personally.
The amount of money they pocketed is completely irrelevant compared to the fact they were willing to betray their country over a handful of peanuts…
It’s not the material things they craved for. It’s the sense of personal importance and idolization they were missing. The bribe was just a material proof of the adoration the leaders expect from their subordinate subjects…
It’s always the ability to control the personal cravings that separates the great leaders from the little ones.
Who are you truly working for, yourself or your people?
The corrupted politicians don’t serve their country and their people but themselves personally.
The amount of money they pocketed is completely irrelevant compared to the fact they were willing to betray their country over a handful of peanuts…
It’s not the material things they craved for. It’s the sense of personal importance and idolization they were missing. The bribe was just a material proof of the adoration the leaders expect from their subordinate subjects…
It’s always the ability to control the personal cravings that separates the great leaders from the little ones.
Who are you truly working for, yourself or your people?
2
Let's not forget that the Arab world and the Palestinians were the original proponents of a "no-state solution".
8
Actually, the Ottoman Empire had implemented that solution, as the Romans had centuries earlier. What does that prove? We need a solution today. The no state solution is no solution.
4
Depending on how far back in time you go, God was the original proponent of the "no-state solution", or at least the United Nations General Assembly was through their adoption of Resolution 181(II).
So turn-about really is fair play? Would that justify the Israelis marching into Germany and dispatching all of its citizens to death camps? Or invading Egypt and enslaving its entire population?
2
And yet the United States continues to support this horrendous behavior and outright hypocrisy with generous loans, aid, arms shipments and UN vetos the rest of the world is in favor of. Want to end this lawlessness and bad behavior? Cut them off completely and see how fast change happens.
104
The UN is prejudiced against Israel.
For example,
the UN criticized only one country for its treatment of women. It was not Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed to drive. It was not Egypt or Iraq or Yemen where girls suffer from female genital mutilation. It was not Palestine or Jordan or Iran where women are subjected to honor killings. It was Israel – a country that has had a female prime minister & female fighter pilots.
The 10 worst countries for human rights are: Syria, Sudan, DR Congo, Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar, Yemen & Nigeria. So why are there more UN Resolutions against Israel than against the 10 worst countries combined?
There is no boycott of China even though China invaded Tibet & transferred millions of Chinese settlers into Tibet.
There is no boycott of Turkey even though Turkey occupies part of Cyprus and Turkish settlers have moved into occupied Cyprus.
There is no boycott of Morocco which occupies part of Western Sahara.
Unlike China, Turkey and Morocco, the Israel's occupation began because Israel was attacked. Also, unlike China, Turkey and Morocco, Israel offered to end the occupation if Palestinians would sign a peace treaty.
For example,
the UN criticized only one country for its treatment of women. It was not Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed to drive. It was not Egypt or Iraq or Yemen where girls suffer from female genital mutilation. It was not Palestine or Jordan or Iran where women are subjected to honor killings. It was Israel – a country that has had a female prime minister & female fighter pilots.
The 10 worst countries for human rights are: Syria, Sudan, DR Congo, Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar, Yemen & Nigeria. So why are there more UN Resolutions against Israel than against the 10 worst countries combined?
There is no boycott of China even though China invaded Tibet & transferred millions of Chinese settlers into Tibet.
There is no boycott of Turkey even though Turkey occupies part of Cyprus and Turkish settlers have moved into occupied Cyprus.
There is no boycott of Morocco which occupies part of Western Sahara.
Unlike China, Turkey and Morocco, the Israel's occupation began because Israel was attacked. Also, unlike China, Turkey and Morocco, Israel offered to end the occupation if Palestinians would sign a peace treaty.
4
We have speculations (and endless assertions) about the pros and cons of no-state, one-state, and two-state solutions. We even have suggestions for a three state confederation, involving Israel, Palestine and Jordan: https://wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/the-post-obama-world/one-way-to-re... .
I am left puzzling over which set of assertions or "plans" to accept. Is my acceptance even desirable (probably not)? Is there any clear imperative? Maybe not. Any solution, if any were currently visible in the fog, will only take place when the parties involved can hammer out an agreement at a negotiating table, something not now in sight.
The Arab world is a mess: http://fathomjournal.org/the-six-day-war-was-a-watershed-in-middle-easte... . The author of this essay, Ariel Susser, has been looking at the morass for a long time. For all of Netanyahu's flaws, he is not personally responsible for the existing mess. Here is Susser's concluding paragraph:
"What is Israel to do with Arab disarray and disorder? The threat from this Arab world of disarray is from non-state actors who are benefiting from the weakness of the states: Hezbollah and Hamas and ISIS and their ilk. And there is the threat from Iran too."
I am left puzzling over which set of assertions or "plans" to accept. Is my acceptance even desirable (probably not)? Is there any clear imperative? Maybe not. Any solution, if any were currently visible in the fog, will only take place when the parties involved can hammer out an agreement at a negotiating table, something not now in sight.
The Arab world is a mess: http://fathomjournal.org/the-six-day-war-was-a-watershed-in-middle-easte... . The author of this essay, Ariel Susser, has been looking at the morass for a long time. For all of Netanyahu's flaws, he is not personally responsible for the existing mess. Here is Susser's concluding paragraph:
"What is Israel to do with Arab disarray and disorder? The threat from this Arab world of disarray is from non-state actors who are benefiting from the weakness of the states: Hezbollah and Hamas and ISIS and their ilk. And there is the threat from Iran too."
5
The Arab world is a mess . . . "What is Israel to do with Arab disarray and disorder?"
Iraq? Libya? That mess did not just happen, and it was not all done by Arab self destruction.
Iraq? Libya? That mess did not just happen, and it was not all done by Arab self destruction.
"No democracy can be immune to running an undemocratic system of oppression for a half-century in territory under its control. "
Oh dear. First we had the "demographic threat" to Israel if it did not capitulate to a Palestinian state. Now there is the nonsensical description of Israel as "undemocratic" and the horrid comparisons of Mr. Netanyahu to Mr. Trump. Scary stuff!
Mr. Cohen, the leitmotif of your narrative -- and those that you have penned over many years -- is that the Palestinians are somehow "entitled" to a state. That if they just wait, "moderate" forces in Israel will surge forth, or Israel will somehow crumble from within.
If you believe that, then you have a very, very incomplete understanding of Israel. Nor do you fully appreciate the ambiguities built in to the language of Resolution 242 (i.e., the "return of territories" captured, etc.).
Time marches on. And the Palestinians, like petulant children on the playground, sit stubbornly, waiting for international intervention, waiting for the Israeli "left" to resurface, waiting for someone -- anyone -- other than themselves to determine their destiny.
This struggle was over many, many years ago. No, there will be no Palestinian state. Through their inaction, recalcitrance, and sclerosis, the Palestinians themselves prove every day that they really do not seek statehood.
Ariel Sharon will likely be proven correct: Jordan, it seems, really is Palestine.
Oh dear. First we had the "demographic threat" to Israel if it did not capitulate to a Palestinian state. Now there is the nonsensical description of Israel as "undemocratic" and the horrid comparisons of Mr. Netanyahu to Mr. Trump. Scary stuff!
Mr. Cohen, the leitmotif of your narrative -- and those that you have penned over many years -- is that the Palestinians are somehow "entitled" to a state. That if they just wait, "moderate" forces in Israel will surge forth, or Israel will somehow crumble from within.
If you believe that, then you have a very, very incomplete understanding of Israel. Nor do you fully appreciate the ambiguities built in to the language of Resolution 242 (i.e., the "return of territories" captured, etc.).
Time marches on. And the Palestinians, like petulant children on the playground, sit stubbornly, waiting for international intervention, waiting for the Israeli "left" to resurface, waiting for someone -- anyone -- other than themselves to determine their destiny.
This struggle was over many, many years ago. No, there will be no Palestinian state. Through their inaction, recalcitrance, and sclerosis, the Palestinians themselves prove every day that they really do not seek statehood.
Ariel Sharon will likely be proven correct: Jordan, it seems, really is Palestine.
12
With "little" people, nothing of consequence is ever achieved. Mr. Netanyahu proved years ago... to be one of the little people. The promise of Israel will need to be deferred until a true statesperson emerges.
2
Actually, Netanyahu is smaller than little. At this point, he seems to be thinking only day to day about how to continue in office.
1
The question you don't seem to want to answer, Roger, is, "Is the Palestinien leadership any more serious about wanting peace than your friend Netanyahu?" the answer is almost certainly No. Will they accept a permanent peace treaty based on the two-state solution, with Israel retaining full sovereignty within their state. Again, No. Face it, Roger, right now there is no basis for a peaceful settlement of the Isreali-Palestinien conflict.
9
Fatah has already asserted that it WOULD accept such a solution. Israeli intransigence on this issue (and on the entire concept of meaningful negotiations) is simply emboldening Hamas.
3
Zionism meaning the right of the Jewish people to a state in their ancient homeland is an anathema to Roger Cohen and all other liberals.
Why?
They hate nationalism.
They despise religion.
And what justifies the claim of the Jews to that land?
A promise made by God himself to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Why?
They hate nationalism.
They despise religion.
And what justifies the claim of the Jews to that land?
A promise made by God himself to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
3
@Eric: "A promise made by God himself to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." Would you expect the descendants of Ishmael to accept that legacy and to just walk away from the land THEY'VE inhabited for thousands of years? Did the God of Abraham ever say that the land he promised to the Hebrews was to be occupied exclusively by Hebrews from 1947 until the consummation of the world? Moreover, If the God of Muhammed had promised the land that became New Jersey to the children of Ishmael, would you be willing to pull up stakes and just walk away?
2
Benjamin Netanyahu and the U.S. president also share something in common -- a hatred for former President Barack Obama. Lest we forget, it was "Bibi" who then-Speaker John Boehner to address Congress invited to speak to them without consulting the sitting president. Boehner's invitation was unconstitutional but it served his purpose, which was to embarrass President Obama. It's no wonder that the current sitting president and Netanyahu get along so well.
5
It's taken over the over 21 years since EN first was PM for his long enacted role as chief as motion of a NO-STATE "solution" to be be publically articulated.
Thanks, Mr. Cohen. Better late than never
Thanks, Mr. Cohen. Better late than never
10
The issue in Israel is somewhat similar to that in the U.S.: Netanyahu is in power BECAUSE a majority (or significant plurality) of Israeli voters want someone who espouses these belligerent policies that will eventually doom Israel.
5
Netanyahu got only 25% of the vote.
And the U.S. government is supporting this nuclear right wing government.
"The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs’ current estimate of cumulative total U.S. direct aid to Israel is $137.638 billion, updating the estimate in the magazine’s Oct./Nov. 2013 issue. It is an estimate because arriving at an exact amount is not possible, since parts of U.S. aid to Israel are buried in the budgets of various U.S. agencies or in a form not easily quantified, such as the early disbursement of aid, giving Israel a direct benefit of interest income and the U.S. Treasury a corresponding loss..."
"Among the real benefits to Israel that are not a direct cost to the U.S. taxpayer is the provision allowing Israel to spend 26.3 percent of each year’s military aid ($815.3 million in FY ’15) in Israel. No other recipient of U.S. military aid gets this benefit, which has resulted in an increasingly sophisticated Israeli defense industry. As a result, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute reported that from 2010 to 2014 Israel was the 10th largest arms exporter worldwide.
Israel also benefits from “cash flow financing scheduled over a longer time. Israel is using cash flow financing to pay the reported $5.57 billion for the 33 advanced F-35 stealth aircraft scheduled to be delivered between now and 2021. As part of the F-35 deal, the U.S. agreed to purchase about $4 billion worth of equipment from Israeli defense companies."
"The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs’ current estimate of cumulative total U.S. direct aid to Israel is $137.638 billion, updating the estimate in the magazine’s Oct./Nov. 2013 issue. It is an estimate because arriving at an exact amount is not possible, since parts of U.S. aid to Israel are buried in the budgets of various U.S. agencies or in a form not easily quantified, such as the early disbursement of aid, giving Israel a direct benefit of interest income and the U.S. Treasury a corresponding loss..."
"Among the real benefits to Israel that are not a direct cost to the U.S. taxpayer is the provision allowing Israel to spend 26.3 percent of each year’s military aid ($815.3 million in FY ’15) in Israel. No other recipient of U.S. military aid gets this benefit, which has resulted in an increasingly sophisticated Israeli defense industry. As a result, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute reported that from 2010 to 2014 Israel was the 10th largest arms exporter worldwide.
Israel also benefits from “cash flow financing scheduled over a longer time. Israel is using cash flow financing to pay the reported $5.57 billion for the 33 advanced F-35 stealth aircraft scheduled to be delivered between now and 2021. As part of the F-35 deal, the U.S. agreed to purchase about $4 billion worth of equipment from Israeli defense companies."
6
Former Supreme Commander of NATO and U.S. Secretary of State Gen. Alexander Haig described Israel as "the largest US aircraft carrier, which does not require even one US soldier, cannot be sunk, is the most cost-effective and battle-tested, located in a region which is critical to vital US interests. If there would not be an Israel, the US would have to deploy real aircraft carriers, along with tens of thousands of US soldiers, which would cost tens of billions of dollars annually, dragging the US unnecessarily into local, regional and global conflicts."
4
Perhaps this is what happens when one is in power too long. Arrogance and corruption flourish. Keeping those less fortunate than you down becomes the goal, as if the are given the freedom to move about, they may go after something you have. There seems to be a vacuum in Israel. A myopic vision, if there is a vision at all. I do not believe that the prophets of Israel would approve.
After all, this land was supposed to adhere to the 10 Commandments. This means to treat all people, including the Palestinians, as equals.
The dream of Ben-Gurion has been sullied.
After all, this land was supposed to adhere to the 10 Commandments. This means to treat all people, including the Palestinians, as equals.
The dream of Ben-Gurion has been sullied.
17
The 10 Commandments says nothing about treating people who are trying to kill you as equals.
3
Mr. Cohen nails it in this article. Israel as a shining example of a liberal democracy in the Middle East has almost disappeared into distant memory. Where has the Labour Party gone?
32
"Where has the Labour Party gone?"
The Labor party has gone where Arafat's rejection of the Clinton Parameters and the violence the followed forced it to go--into political marginalization--as Bill Clinton warned Arafat before leaving the White House in early 2001. Nothing happens in a vacuum, on either side of the conflict.
The Labor party has gone where Arafat's rejection of the Clinton Parameters and the violence the followed forced it to go--into political marginalization--as Bill Clinton warned Arafat before leaving the White House in early 2001. Nothing happens in a vacuum, on either side of the conflict.
5
Not according to:
Polity IV Project:
Political Regime Characteristics
and Transitions, 1800-2013
http://www.systemicpeace.org/polity/polity4x.htm
Polity IV Project:
Political Regime Characteristics
and Transitions, 1800-2013
http://www.systemicpeace.org/polity/polity4x.htm
1
The article naively mixes up two separate issues: corruption charges against
Netanyau and the 2-state solution.
As for the first part the fact the a former prime minister has been jailed and the present might is a testimony to the strength of the democracy and the Israeli legal system - much more than in most western countries,
the US included.
A common mistake is the importance of the US in brokering peace.
All the previous agreement, with Egypt, Jordan, and even the Oslo accord with Palestinians started with no US knowledge- only in advanced stages did the US enter as a frame giver.
The 2-state solution unfortunately a viable option. Its past supporters, like myself are disillusioned by what happened in Gaza, Lebanon and Syria.
A 2-state solution will bring in Hamas/Hizbulla-Iran missiles to a distance of 10 Miles from our only international airport and 30 miles from Tel Aviv.
It is time to think about realistic solution like a confederation. Such solution are widely supported by Palestinians ( as Plaesinian pollsters have found).
Such a solution will brung a HAMAS/HIzbulla -Iranian
Netanyau and the 2-state solution.
As for the first part the fact the a former prime minister has been jailed and the present might is a testimony to the strength of the democracy and the Israeli legal system - much more than in most western countries,
the US included.
A common mistake is the importance of the US in brokering peace.
All the previous agreement, with Egypt, Jordan, and even the Oslo accord with Palestinians started with no US knowledge- only in advanced stages did the US enter as a frame giver.
The 2-state solution unfortunately a viable option. Its past supporters, like myself are disillusioned by what happened in Gaza, Lebanon and Syria.
A 2-state solution will bring in Hamas/Hizbulla-Iran missiles to a distance of 10 Miles from our only international airport and 30 miles from Tel Aviv.
It is time to think about realistic solution like a confederation. Such solution are widely supported by Palestinians ( as Plaesinian pollsters have found).
Such a solution will brung a HAMAS/HIzbulla -Iranian
33
Do the people who run Palestine really want peace, or are they willing to wait indefinitely until Israel crumbles? Can peace be imposed by one side on the other? No matter how bad the government of Israel is, until Palestinians can get a government together that really wants real peace with Israel (which will take compromise on both sides) there can be no peace.
8
Very glad to see for the first time an Israeli position in favor of a confederation.
I keep repeating on the NYT comments section that there is an obvious alternative. Nobody seems to want to hear it - it wins almost no 'Recommend' whenever I post it. Zero-sum thinking seems to have taken hold for good on this issue. Two-State vs One-State, meaning Dysfunctional Palestinian State vs Apartheid. Sorry, both are 'impossible solutions'. A Federal union of two independent States (Israel-Palestine), with clearly defined borders and full sovereignty for each within these borders. Regional defense is Israel's responsibility, refugees can resettle in Palestinian territories and be compensated by Israel and the international community. The actual people have been living together since the beginning of the 20th Century. They know each other quite well and have learned to live with each other, despite the turbulent politics on both sides. They will thrive when they finally adopt a framework that works for both of them, not as long as every politician in the world tries to extract the maximum spin (and lucrative contracts and outright bribes) out of empty slogans.
I keep repeating on the NYT comments section that there is an obvious alternative. Nobody seems to want to hear it - it wins almost no 'Recommend' whenever I post it. Zero-sum thinking seems to have taken hold for good on this issue. Two-State vs One-State, meaning Dysfunctional Palestinian State vs Apartheid. Sorry, both are 'impossible solutions'. A Federal union of two independent States (Israel-Palestine), with clearly defined borders and full sovereignty for each within these borders. Regional defense is Israel's responsibility, refugees can resettle in Palestinian territories and be compensated by Israel and the international community. The actual people have been living together since the beginning of the 20th Century. They know each other quite well and have learned to live with each other, despite the turbulent politics on both sides. They will thrive when they finally adopt a framework that works for both of them, not as long as every politician in the world tries to extract the maximum spin (and lucrative contracts and outright bribes) out of empty slogans.
I do not know if the two state solution id dead.
It is dead as long as the Palestinians do not compromise the demands they make and are a terrorist organization..
I believe a two solution is possible if our objectives to one now can be solved so we should not give it up as something that we should strive for.
It will take time and can be done in stages.
Israel will have to leave the settlements built on land that was not bought and the Palestinians will have to accept the ones that were legally bought.
Jews have the same right to live there as Muslims have the right to live in Israel.
Israel will have to give help to the new State and this State can not build a army to attack Israel.
Israel will have to recognize the Palestinian state as a Muslim State and they will have to recognize Israel as a Jewish State.
These are just some of the things that have o be considered before a two State solution can be achieved.
This will mean the Palestinians will have to accept some of the demands made by Israel in return for the acceptance that Israel will give to some of their demands.
It is dead as long as the Palestinians do not compromise the demands they make and are a terrorist organization..
I believe a two solution is possible if our objectives to one now can be solved so we should not give it up as something that we should strive for.
It will take time and can be done in stages.
Israel will have to leave the settlements built on land that was not bought and the Palestinians will have to accept the ones that were legally bought.
Jews have the same right to live there as Muslims have the right to live in Israel.
Israel will have to give help to the new State and this State can not build a army to attack Israel.
Israel will have to recognize the Palestinian state as a Muslim State and they will have to recognize Israel as a Jewish State.
These are just some of the things that have o be considered before a two State solution can be achieved.
This will mean the Palestinians will have to accept some of the demands made by Israel in return for the acceptance that Israel will give to some of their demands.
2
Someone needs to remind Mr. Cohen that there are two sides to this conflict, well actually three: Israel, Abbas and Hamas. The two Palestinian factions can't even make peace between themselves, much less with Israel.
Where is the article about the Palestinian crie de coeur "Palestine will be free from the river to the sea"? How do you make peace with political entities that promote terrorism via U.S. sponsored payments to interned terrorists and their families? How will peace be promoted when countries like Qatar fund Hamas to increase its miliary power and Iran supports Hezbollah to assist in wiping Israel from the map?
The Palestinian leadership has rejected every proposal for a two-state solution since even before Israel was established. Their people are primarily victims of their own leaders, who haven't held elections for more than a decade. Most Palestinians, like most Israelis prefer a two-state solution.
The bicameral Palestinian leadership is willing to sacrifice their own population for their goal of, quite literally, eradicating Israel.
Where is the article about the Palestinian crie de coeur "Palestine will be free from the river to the sea"? How do you make peace with political entities that promote terrorism via U.S. sponsored payments to interned terrorists and their families? How will peace be promoted when countries like Qatar fund Hamas to increase its miliary power and Iran supports Hezbollah to assist in wiping Israel from the map?
The Palestinian leadership has rejected every proposal for a two-state solution since even before Israel was established. Their people are primarily victims of their own leaders, who haven't held elections for more than a decade. Most Palestinians, like most Israelis prefer a two-state solution.
The bicameral Palestinian leadership is willing to sacrifice their own population for their goal of, quite literally, eradicating Israel.
15
I disagree with the notion that the Palestinians even want a state. I am not at all convinced that they do.
If they did, they would have accepted the offers made in past years by Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert.
Those offers required concessions on the Palestinians' part. So they were rejected.
Rather than make tough choices, the Palestinians cling to their victimization narrative.
And with real conflicts -- wars in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, and soon North Korea, to name a few -- still generating headlines, the world is, it would seem, losing interest.
Certainly the US is.
If they did, they would have accepted the offers made in past years by Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert.
Those offers required concessions on the Palestinians' part. So they were rejected.
Rather than make tough choices, the Palestinians cling to their victimization narrative.
And with real conflicts -- wars in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, and soon North Korea, to name a few -- still generating headlines, the world is, it would seem, losing interest.
Certainly the US is.
7
Those offers would have given the Palestinians a "state" composed of non-contiguous "bantustans," which they recognized as being entirely unfeasible.
3
So they now have nothing. And they will continue to have nothing.
Which demonstrates the correctness of my thesis: that the Palestinians prefer victimization over statehood.
Which demonstrates the correctness of my thesis: that the Palestinians prefer victimization over statehood.
2
A two-part solution in Israel/Palestine has always been an impossible dream.
They all want it all from the river to the sea. Demographics do not work in favor of Israeli Jews. In the long run, these two peoples will have to learn to respect and to love each other as fellow citizens and fellow human beings.
This is not an impossible dream because Combatants for Peace, an organization of former Israeli soldiers and former Palestinian fighters, work together to build playgrounds for their children. Perhaps it will be ordinary people at the grassroots who will make the peace and change the government.
They all want it all from the river to the sea. Demographics do not work in favor of Israeli Jews. In the long run, these two peoples will have to learn to respect and to love each other as fellow citizens and fellow human beings.
This is not an impossible dream because Combatants for Peace, an organization of former Israeli soldiers and former Palestinian fighters, work together to build playgrounds for their children. Perhaps it will be ordinary people at the grassroots who will make the peace and change the government.
1
Don't equate America's beginnings and early struggles with those of Israel. When the crowns of Europe colonized the Americas, there was no international body to which nearly all nations belonged and whose rules all nations agreed upon. What was done during those times may be seen as morally wrong today, but was not seriously questioned at the time either by the heads of state or by society.
That stands in stark contrast to the twentieth century rules of international law and the behavior of Israel since its creation.
That stands in stark contrast to the twentieth century rules of international law and the behavior of Israel since its creation.
9
Well, those 20th century rules of international law you mention have usually interpreted and enforced in very self-serving and selective ways and only when they have served the needs and interests of the largest nations and most powerful or numerous blocks of nations.
1
so Israel accepting said body's promulgation is ignored but the Arab rejection of same gets a pass?
2
Just out of curiosity, are you also in favor of leaving the statues of leaders of the Confederate in place? 'Cause that also was another time and place. Or do you believe that consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds?
2
I have always thought that any God declaring any peace of earth to be only for a certain group of people, to be preposterous, but then again, I don't prescribe to any God.
Having said that, I am more than conscious of the modern history of the Jewish people and their persecution. I cannot imagine what it is like to have family members that went through it and bare the mark of their herding. I cannot imagine having lost entire sections ( if not all ) of their family tree to such evil, I cannot imagine the struggles they continue to go through.
However I can imagine the struggles of the Palestinian people, because I see it daily ( at the click of a button on the computer )
I cannot imagine that a people would vote for and sanction leaders to implement such a persecution of other peoples\their neighbors. ( especially when it was done to them\ their ancestors )
Peace will only come when those leaders are removed and a proper two state solution is implemented fairly,
Having said that, I am more than conscious of the modern history of the Jewish people and their persecution. I cannot imagine what it is like to have family members that went through it and bare the mark of their herding. I cannot imagine having lost entire sections ( if not all ) of their family tree to such evil, I cannot imagine the struggles they continue to go through.
However I can imagine the struggles of the Palestinian people, because I see it daily ( at the click of a button on the computer )
I cannot imagine that a people would vote for and sanction leaders to implement such a persecution of other peoples\their neighbors. ( especially when it was done to them\ their ancestors )
Peace will only come when those leaders are removed and a proper two state solution is implemented fairly,
58
It's not just the leaders.
Polls show that most Palestinians don't want a 2-state solution.
They want Palestine from the River to the Sea.
70% of Palestinians favored suicide bombing [2007].
Polls show that most Palestinians don't want a 2-state solution.
They want Palestine from the River to the Sea.
70% of Palestinians favored suicide bombing [2007].
4
Bibi survives because he has consolidated the support of far right religious factions. He's bought them off and they've have delivered in votes. Does this at all sound familiar? Bathroom bills? LGBT restrictions? Planned Parenthood? It's pretty darn easy to point at Iran, Saudi and the rest as captives of religious forces, and miss the point all together.
20
You are correct of course that in order to survive, Netanyahu has included religious parties in his coalition. But do you really think that a more progressive coalition would do any less to protect Israel's "boundaries" and population (Jewish or not)? I don't. Case in point, almost all Jewish Israelis felt that retaliation against Hamas in Gaza in the last war was justified and most of the parties (the Zionist Union party aka Labor especially comes to mind, not sure about Meretz ) in the opposition also supported the Israeli military's defense of Israel then. And, yes, non-Jewish Israelis were left out of that poll, but then the non-Jewish ("Arab") political parties also refuse to be other than an minority opposition group in the Knesset. https://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5955077/israeli-support-for-the-gaza-war-i... As for bathroom bills etc. I think we as US citizens have more to fear concerning the US government religiousizing (is that a word?) than do non-Jewish Israelis. In Israel, individual religious groups already have control over laws regulating marriage, death etc. Additionally, although there is an attempt to prohibit it, the Islam call to prayer in Israel is usually by loudspeaker, even in the middle of the night/early hours of the morning and in areas of mixed population, and the attempt to prohibit it doesn't seem to be making much headway. I think yours is a deflecting, straw man argument.
2
This is a clever article, but it misses a couple of key points: (1) Israel is governed by a coalition. Bibi could be ousted by a vote of no-confidence. (2) Both the Arab parties and the ultra-orthodox have more democratic power than anyplace else in the world. (3) In the 1980's Israel was subject to constant suicide bombings. That does no happen anymore. (4) Israel had the misfortune of being born in the wrong century -- one in which it is no longer to gain territory by invasion, even in self-defense. (5) the right solution is to integrate the West Bank, gives Arabs full voting rights and take our chances in the democratic process.
14
Allowing Palestinians to vote in Israeli elections would be like allowing Germans to vote in French elections after world war 2.
It rewards aggression. I
It rewards aggression. I
2
There are further parallels to consider that go past the similarities of the two leaders. Republicans found it expedient to ally with Christian conservatives and the Tea Party, thinking that they could control them. Similarly, Likud found usefulness in working with the ultra-Orthodox. Both found themselves holding onto the tail of the tiger. The moderates Republicans of yore, and the secular socialists who founded Israel would be similarly appalled.
16
If Israel claims the right to all the land because its their inheritance, then what about the inheritance of the Palestinians to that same land? One could argue that the Palestinians have the greater claim since they occupied the land continuously for thousands of years versus those who mostly came from Europe beginning in the 1900s. If the Israeli rationale is true, then Native Americans in the United States have a claim to this entire country. Basing a claim to property on a religious belief rather than the rule than of law is a flimsy excuse for an illegal land grab.
73
Just so you are aware, palestinians have not occupied the land for thousands of years. Palestinians are called Arabs because they are from Arabia and migrated to the area. There are 51 Arab countries in the world. Jews are called such because they are from Judea.
Prior to 1948 the next most recent independent county in the Land of Israel was also Jewish about 2000 years ago. Since then it had been ruled by Romans, Byzantines , Turks and The English among others.
Most Israelis did not come from Europe in the 1900's. Most have been born there.
The heritage of the largest group of Israeli's- sephardic jews, came primarily form Arab lands (egypt, syria Iraq yemen morrocco) as they were expelled from those countries for being Jews- About 7-8 hundred thousand people).
Prior to 1948 the next most recent independent county in the Land of Israel was also Jewish about 2000 years ago. Since then it had been ruled by Romans, Byzantines , Turks and The English among others.
Most Israelis did not come from Europe in the 1900's. Most have been born there.
The heritage of the largest group of Israeli's- sephardic jews, came primarily form Arab lands (egypt, syria Iraq yemen morrocco) as they were expelled from those countries for being Jews- About 7-8 hundred thousand people).
1
Today's Palestinians are immigrants from many nations: "Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudaneese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, Tartars, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians, Copts, Maronites, and many others."
(DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69).
(DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69).
2
they occupied the land for thousands of years? the majority came from turkey in the 19th century. it is very hard to discuss the issue when people do not utilize basic facts.
https://www.science.co.il/israel-history/Palestine-history.php
https://www.science.co.il/israel-history/Palestine-history.php
2
Ah, Mr. Cohen, your pen is far mightier than the presidential tweet or a ministerial rant.
I have a modest proposal: Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu should switch positions and titles for the next year, conveniently in time for our 2018 mid-terms. Just imagine "President" Netanyahu making stump speeches for GOP candidates, especially in red states, exhorting them to continue in office those who very much want that 1,989- mile Wall built so that "freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by" those who stole land from Mexico may continue in office under the banner of "Make America Great Again." He could work on his golf game every weekend at Mar-A-Lago. Of course, he would be responsible for his own caddy fees.
In a delicious role reversal, Donald Trump could stroll into the Knesset and give a speech on how his proposed "Arab ban" should become the law of the land. The children of Palestinians, he could declare with the straightest of faces (“I have a love for these people") that "law and order" and "national security" are his prime considerations for uprooting their parents from their homeland; that his unwavering commitment to a "50-year occupation" is in keeping with traditional Israeli values. The orange hair would be alight with the electricity and excitement of the continued oppression of an outraged people.
And Melania could show them her stiletto heels. Or is it stiletto "heals?"
Would ordinary American or Israeli citizens even notice a difference? I think not.
I have a modest proposal: Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu should switch positions and titles for the next year, conveniently in time for our 2018 mid-terms. Just imagine "President" Netanyahu making stump speeches for GOP candidates, especially in red states, exhorting them to continue in office those who very much want that 1,989- mile Wall built so that "freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by" those who stole land from Mexico may continue in office under the banner of "Make America Great Again." He could work on his golf game every weekend at Mar-A-Lago. Of course, he would be responsible for his own caddy fees.
In a delicious role reversal, Donald Trump could stroll into the Knesset and give a speech on how his proposed "Arab ban" should become the law of the land. The children of Palestinians, he could declare with the straightest of faces (“I have a love for these people") that "law and order" and "national security" are his prime considerations for uprooting their parents from their homeland; that his unwavering commitment to a "50-year occupation" is in keeping with traditional Israeli values. The orange hair would be alight with the electricity and excitement of the continued oppression of an outraged people.
And Melania could show them her stiletto heels. Or is it stiletto "heals?"
Would ordinary American or Israeli citizens even notice a difference? I think not.
1
I agree with writer regarding the corruption allegations. They may eventually lead to Netanyahu's fall. However, his attempt to relate it to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is far fetched and at best very naive. Most of the Israelis and Palestinians polled by Israeli and Palestinian pollsters expressed disbelief in a viability of two states in such a small territory. They would rather prefer some kind of a confederation.
About the corruption - I believe Israel is far less corrupt than most OECD countries - It is the high level of awareness of the public and the small population that drives investigations.
And last remark, all past peace agreements ( Egypt, Jordan) were brought up originally without american involvement.
About the corruption - I believe Israel is far less corrupt than most OECD countries - It is the high level of awareness of the public and the small population that drives investigations.
And last remark, all past peace agreements ( Egypt, Jordan) were brought up originally without american involvement.
5
Human beings need certain things. Shelter. Water. Food. Clothing. Those are the basics for survival, of course. But we need other things, as well. We need something to do. We need to love and be loved. We need to belong. We need to contribute, each according to our abilities.
These are basic requirements for a positive human experience.
It's cross-cultural and pan-religious and not isolated nor entitled to any one ethnic group. All human beings should have these things.
When we begin with those basics in mind, we can then take the next step to imagine a way to peacefully coexist. How do we endeavor, as a species, to create a place for everyone, where they can be sheltered and fed and their thirst quenched? How do we take our collective understanding of urban planning and architecture and the sciences to create a place where everyone can be loved and be able to provide for those they love, without threats of violence or poverty? How do we provide a place for everyone, where they can be free to believe whatever religion they choose and can respect the choices of others? How do we help each human do all they can with what they've been given?
Do you really think people would kill each other over real estate and resources if they had a baseline of basic human needs met? To these ends we must endeavor.
Perhaps the first step must be a brave one. Perhaps we should outlaw war as a means of resolving conflicts. Start there. Then we may have the attention for the other stuff.
These are basic requirements for a positive human experience.
It's cross-cultural and pan-religious and not isolated nor entitled to any one ethnic group. All human beings should have these things.
When we begin with those basics in mind, we can then take the next step to imagine a way to peacefully coexist. How do we endeavor, as a species, to create a place for everyone, where they can be sheltered and fed and their thirst quenched? How do we take our collective understanding of urban planning and architecture and the sciences to create a place where everyone can be loved and be able to provide for those they love, without threats of violence or poverty? How do we provide a place for everyone, where they can be free to believe whatever religion they choose and can respect the choices of others? How do we help each human do all they can with what they've been given?
Do you really think people would kill each other over real estate and resources if they had a baseline of basic human needs met? To these ends we must endeavor.
Perhaps the first step must be a brave one. Perhaps we should outlaw war as a means of resolving conflicts. Start there. Then we may have the attention for the other stuff.
This is a succinct, smart and sound essay. The untethered if not unprincipled attraction between the Republican party and Israel's extremists continues to be at least a nuisance but more often is an all-accepting alliance detrimental to the well-being of all involved. Power, simple and unfettered, no matter how adorned or disguised, is the shared characteristic. Both nations must defend themselves but the leaders seem quick to dispense with the fairness, balance, and equities contained in their founding documents. Both cloak themselves in awkwardly fitting religious contexts. Both are would-be dictators. Our president enjoys the ceremonial aspects of his job. Israel's prime minister enjoys wielding the big stick. Perhaps there's an island somewhere that Trump can buy and they can establish a new nation open to extremist immigrants and leave the rest of us alone.
13
Mr. Cohen, perhaps it's time to accept that there is no solution? Even if there were an Israeli PM willing to evacuate Jews from their homes, Palestinians have made it clear that there will be no end to the conflict until 6 million Arabs who call themselves Palestinian refugees move to their ancestral homes in "Israel Proper". Besides the fact that they have been replaced by the descendants of Arab Jews expelled from their ancestral homes, I'm sure you'd agree that that's not going to happen, ever.
On the other hand, there are precedents for durable unresolved situations. Taiwan is independent though no one dare say so. Cyprus is permanently divided. No, while not optimal, the current situation is the best out of a lot of bad options. Cut Bibi and the rest of Israel some slack in this regard.
On the other hand, there are precedents for durable unresolved situations. Taiwan is independent though no one dare say so. Cyprus is permanently divided. No, while not optimal, the current situation is the best out of a lot of bad options. Cut Bibi and the rest of Israel some slack in this regard.
4
I've never quite understood why the Israeli government would waste its time debating the "two-state solution" versus the "one-state solution." The "no-state solution" has been working just fine since 1967 -- why change? As long as the US government does nothing -- other than occasionally express frustration -- the Israeli government knows its back is covered. For 50 years, its policy has been to let the Palestinians twist slowly in the wind, and that will be its policy forever if it can get away with it.
80
". Current Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas rejected an American initiative offered by Vice President Joe Biden in March after previously scuttling American-sponsored negotiations two years ago."
2
First, one needs to parse this article into its three component themes, so as to get at the truth of the segments, qua segments, being the loss of Israeli democracy and the rule of law, Netanyahu's corruption and flouting of that law, and an unjust and brutal occupation. Israeli democracy is not under threat, merely assault. The fact that Netanyahu and elements of his coterie are under public investigation is proof that this prime minister is not above Israeli law. That Netanyahu is corrupt is not for Cohen to say. It is a matter best left to the Israeli legal system, whose bemoaned loss is premature. This brings us to the occupation and the "No-State Solution." The totality of that which Palestinians are living under is obvious. Less obvious, or certainly less touted are Israel's partners in this. Both the Palestinian Authority and the Palestinian people have demonstrated consistently for a half-century that they prefer confrontation to accomodation and conflict to war, unless they can realize their own dream of a Palestinian state that encompasses Haifa and Tel-Aviv, and is mostly Judenrein. What Cohen fails to realize is that it is the "true believers" on each side that are controlling the agenda. And this has nothing to do with the ethics of the Israeli prime minister, and certainly not with Cohen's perception of the democratic process in Israel.
8
The internal decline of what I was taught was meant to be a beacon for the world is another outcome of the no-peace/violence cycle. Israel knows how to defend itself, and certainly is justified when it has to, but looking in the mirror is much harder, for itself and its supporters. It's even harder when it is extremely easy to rationalize not using the White House switchboard when the Palestinians, the U.N., and the B.D.S. movement show no interest in Israel's welfare, while Hamas, Iran, and Hezbollah work towards its destruction.
The tit-for-tat approach leads only to more tit-for-tat. The decades-long dynamic must be disrupted.
The continued framing of the conflict, explicitly or not, as singly caused by one party or the other is part of the problem. There is blame on both sides. While equivalence will please few, whether it's full or not is not very important. Until a re-framing happens, Israel will hunker down, convinced its critics want its destruction (which for some of them is true).
Then we get to developing empathy. Each side needs to understand, and ultimately to feel, the other side's guiding story. Until that happens, it is again too easy to stay with the increasingly undesirable status quo.
If we can get to that, we can move to finding (or rediscovering) creative compromises.
The medium-term goal could be another cold peace, if that's the best achievable. The longer goal is a real peace, with respect between parties.
So Roger, please, no more one-sidedness.
The tit-for-tat approach leads only to more tit-for-tat. The decades-long dynamic must be disrupted.
The continued framing of the conflict, explicitly or not, as singly caused by one party or the other is part of the problem. There is blame on both sides. While equivalence will please few, whether it's full or not is not very important. Until a re-framing happens, Israel will hunker down, convinced its critics want its destruction (which for some of them is true).
Then we get to developing empathy. Each side needs to understand, and ultimately to feel, the other side's guiding story. Until that happens, it is again too easy to stay with the increasingly undesirable status quo.
If we can get to that, we can move to finding (or rediscovering) creative compromises.
The medium-term goal could be another cold peace, if that's the best achievable. The longer goal is a real peace, with respect between parties.
So Roger, please, no more one-sidedness.
2
There's so much truth in this piece.
And there's a huge lesson for the US. "A democratic state governed by laws...." We all know the laws are important but they are not a guarantee of democracy. Key democratic concepts - such as freedom, equality of rights, and so on - are legal concepts and can be defended in the courts. But they are subject to exceptions - e.g.: Guantanamo. It's the soft democratic values that cannot be defended in the courts - tolerance, respect for the other etc - and the ethics of humanitarianism that are required to ensure that the "hard" democratic values make sense.
Israel destroyed these soft values over time so what we are left with the is hollowed out shell of democracy and, by and large, a population that has no real desire or interest in genuine democratic values - merely those laws that provide a sufficient fig-leaf of self-deception. At the moment, in Israel, even that fig leaf is extremely small and fragile.
And there's a huge lesson for the US. "A democratic state governed by laws...." We all know the laws are important but they are not a guarantee of democracy. Key democratic concepts - such as freedom, equality of rights, and so on - are legal concepts and can be defended in the courts. But they are subject to exceptions - e.g.: Guantanamo. It's the soft democratic values that cannot be defended in the courts - tolerance, respect for the other etc - and the ethics of humanitarianism that are required to ensure that the "hard" democratic values make sense.
Israel destroyed these soft values over time so what we are left with the is hollowed out shell of democracy and, by and large, a population that has no real desire or interest in genuine democratic values - merely those laws that provide a sufficient fig-leaf of self-deception. At the moment, in Israel, even that fig leaf is extremely small and fragile.
85
The Bill of Rights in the old Soviet Union was very impressive. Russians had more rights than we did. They just did not get them. It was only paper, just words.
21
Jacques--The Republicans, religionists, and big business, destroyed OUR soft values, so quietly that we hardly noticed it happening.
2
Mark--Soon, under tRump, our situation will be the same.
1
Two current headlines from Israeli papers:
"Jerusalem churches warn of Israel's 'systematic' erosion of Christian presence in Holy Land".
"Former chief rabbi of Israel calls Reform Jews worse than Holocaust deniers."
Food for thought!
"Jerusalem churches warn of Israel's 'systematic' erosion of Christian presence in Holy Land".
"Former chief rabbi of Israel calls Reform Jews worse than Holocaust deniers."
Food for thought!
101
the Christian presence in the Holy Land is being challenged by the moslem arabs in Bethlehem and elsewhere. Christians are leaving Palestine in great number because of this. They are free to be Christians in Israel.
As regards the stupidity of the former chief rabbi of Israel's statement I can only compare them to Trump's numerous insane statements about "nice people" among the US neo-nazis
As regards the stupidity of the former chief rabbi of Israel's statement I can only compare them to Trump's numerous insane statements about "nice people" among the US neo-nazis
7
@Walter, any 'erosion' of the Christian presence in the Holy Land is the result of Arab Christians leaving Moslem areas because of increased Islamic Fundamentalism. Reality is that Israel is about the only country in the Middle East where the number of minorities (Christians, Moslems, Druze) has actually increased.
And as to your second headline, there are lots of huge internal battles right now between the different streams of Judaism, but to take one headline the way you do shows you really are not interested in this debate or in the issues, just interested in finding a way to bash Israel.
And as to your second headline, there are lots of huge internal battles right now between the different streams of Judaism, but to take one headline the way you do shows you really are not interested in this debate or in the issues, just interested in finding a way to bash Israel.
2
here, the church is sadly thinking more about real estate than the uprooting of peoples live :
“Contrary to the church’s claims, the struggle of hundreds of families for whom the future of their homes is uncertain due to the lease agreements is entirely a social issue and not a political issue. There is no connection whatsoever between it and the legal dispute over the properties at Jaffa Gate, and any attempt to portray things otherwise is deliberately misleading. We will continue to work toward a solution to the issue in every way possible.”
“Contrary to the church’s claims, the struggle of hundreds of families for whom the future of their homes is uncertain due to the lease agreements is entirely a social issue and not a political issue. There is no connection whatsoever between it and the legal dispute over the properties at Jaffa Gate, and any attempt to portray things otherwise is deliberately misleading. We will continue to work toward a solution to the issue in every way possible.”
1
Roger, far be it from me to say anything supportive of Netanyahu and his ilk, but is there any political settlement in which Israel continues to exist that Hamas is prepared to accept?
How can there possibly be a two state solution when one important faction in the conflict is insistent on a one state solution involving the eradication of the other?
There are many reasons suggested as to why Arafat refused to sign the agreement that he nearly concluded with the Labor government; to me, the most plausible reason why he didn't sign was that he knew that he'd be signing his own death warrant (at the hands of Hamas), and the all-too-human Arafat wasn't quite ready to enter into history / eternity.
I came across a story in today's NY Daily News claiming that Bibi's wife could be indicted for fraud:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/netanyahu-wife-indicted-fraud-char...
But none of this will change anything if the whole of the Palestinian movement remains unwilling to renounce murder and mayhem in the name of politics.
Honestly, I sometimes feel that the best solution to this problem would be to allow sane and civilized Israelis to emigrate to America (which is what we should have been encouraging Jews to do in the 1930s, as the storm clouds of the Second World War began to appear) - thus allowing religious crackpots on both sides to keep going at it from now until the end of time.
How can there possibly be a two state solution when one important faction in the conflict is insistent on a one state solution involving the eradication of the other?
There are many reasons suggested as to why Arafat refused to sign the agreement that he nearly concluded with the Labor government; to me, the most plausible reason why he didn't sign was that he knew that he'd be signing his own death warrant (at the hands of Hamas), and the all-too-human Arafat wasn't quite ready to enter into history / eternity.
I came across a story in today's NY Daily News claiming that Bibi's wife could be indicted for fraud:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/netanyahu-wife-indicted-fraud-char...
But none of this will change anything if the whole of the Palestinian movement remains unwilling to renounce murder and mayhem in the name of politics.
Honestly, I sometimes feel that the best solution to this problem would be to allow sane and civilized Israelis to emigrate to America (which is what we should have been encouraging Jews to do in the 1930s, as the storm clouds of the Second World War began to appear) - thus allowing religious crackpots on both sides to keep going at it from now until the end of time.
27
May be correct, but there is, in my opinion, way way way too much history invoked in the arguments for should'ves to be relevant. Hit reset on both sides and withdraw all American meddling.
1
Those with all the power have created this, and those with no power are blamed for it.
19
The fundamental question Israel will not address is why , when European kills European, do Arabs lose land? Sicily should have been the Jewish state. Rome expelled the Jews after the Second Jewish War. Italy was part of the Axis. Yes, there is a religious aspect to the choice of Palestine for the Jews but that is precisely why Palestine was a bad choice. Another location would have been less fraught with religious prejudice.
1
The discussion has left the bounds of reason or history and has entered the borders of myth and power. There is no solution in sight. Palestinians will have to wait for their own Moses.
8
They'll also have to work to get a leader who favors realistic solutions -- specifically, an unabridged right of return.
1
You hit the nail on the head.
The Palestinians are waiting. For someone, anyone, to do their work for them.
THAT is why there will never be an agreement between the two sides.
The Palestinians are waiting. For someone, anyone, to do their work for them.
THAT is why there will never be an agreement between the two sides.
5
Hitting the nail on its head.
43
Israel was conceived as a state of laws, as we were, but also as one based on immoral interests, as we were. Inevitably in such matters, the immorality taints and at least threatens to destroy the good. For us it was black slavery and the genocide of indigenous Americans, with Israel it's always been that you can't carve out a homeland for Jews without displacing millions of people already living on the land. For us, it took a horrific civil war to walk back the taint of black slavery; and we didn't walk it back even in our laws for another century. We resolved our fundamental land issue with the Indians by exterminating them at a time in history when we could get away with it.
What will it be for Israelis?
The two-state solution has risks and requires sacrifices from the perspective of many Israelis that ALL the land is properly their religious inheritance, but the only alternative requires that millions of Palestinian Arabs just cease to exist; and we are not living in times when civilized states can get away with such actions. Palestinians are not going to cooperate by voluntarily disappearing, and this issue will poison Israel's place in the world for as long as it's unresolved.
The land sacrifices must be made, a two-state solution must be crafted. There really is no other option.
What will it be for Israelis?
The two-state solution has risks and requires sacrifices from the perspective of many Israelis that ALL the land is properly their religious inheritance, but the only alternative requires that millions of Palestinian Arabs just cease to exist; and we are not living in times when civilized states can get away with such actions. Palestinians are not going to cooperate by voluntarily disappearing, and this issue will poison Israel's place in the world for as long as it's unresolved.
The land sacrifices must be made, a two-state solution must be crafted. There really is no other option.
255
Richard Luettgen -
"The land sacrifices must be made, a two-state solution must be crafted. There really is no other option."
Unless you have a specific idea about how to craft a two-state solution, it is also not an option. A large percentage of the Palestinians are represented by Hamas, who have made it very clear that they will not accept any two-state solution that includes Israel as one of them. You fail to hold the Palestinians responsible for their violent refusal to accept Israel's existence.
It is reasonable to ask that settlement expansion be halted. But beyond that, Israel is pursuing the only option it currently has, unpleasant as that may be: continue the occupation until the Palestinians - including Hamas and their supporters - are ready to make a permanent peace.
"The land sacrifices must be made, a two-state solution must be crafted. There really is no other option."
Unless you have a specific idea about how to craft a two-state solution, it is also not an option. A large percentage of the Palestinians are represented by Hamas, who have made it very clear that they will not accept any two-state solution that includes Israel as one of them. You fail to hold the Palestinians responsible for their violent refusal to accept Israel's existence.
It is reasonable to ask that settlement expansion be halted. But beyond that, Israel is pursuing the only option it currently has, unpleasant as that may be: continue the occupation until the Palestinians - including Hamas and their supporters - are ready to make a permanent peace.
4
Unfortunately there are other options, and Netanyahu's coalition seems headed there.
"we are not living in times when civilized states can get away with such actions" is easy to say, but is likely to be tested very soon. They might very well get away with it, and certainly many think they can.
"we are not living in times when civilized states can get away with such actions" is easy to say, but is likely to be tested very soon. They might very well get away with it, and certainly many think they can.
6
In fact, there is another option, and it is unfolding before our very eyes.
The Palestinians will wait, and wait, and wait for someone to do their heavy lifting (i.e., negotiations).
But it will be too late, And the world will stop caring. And so will the Palestinians.
The Palestinians will wait, and wait, and wait for someone to do their heavy lifting (i.e., negotiations).
But it will be too late, And the world will stop caring. And so will the Palestinians.
2
How about some constructive criticism? And while we're at it, is anything happening anywhere else in the world? Somalia, the Congo? Burma?