There are important statistics that are missing from this article. The AP Spanish Language and AP Spanish Literature exams have an amazing impact on the educational progress of Spanish speaking students. Student who are heritage speakers of Spanish who have the opportunity to take theses exams are successful and do pass even those with the lowest economic indicators. What these exams do is help these students experience themselves as high performing students because of the language abilities that were learned in the home. At High School for Environmental Studies in Manhattan all heritage speaker of Spanish were given a one year course to teach students academic Spanish. In their sophomore year they took the the AP Spanish Language exam and each year 85-90% of the students passed with a 3 or higher. Some student went on to study AP Spanish Literature and others took other AP courses. Students in this program became the school's AP Scholars--students who had completed at least three AP courses before graduation. Because of this work, these students were frequently offered scholarships at top colleges. Analysis of the effectiveness of AP courses for low income students seldom recognize this important role of the AP Spanish exams in supporting an at-risk population.
8
I began teaching A,P. classes in 1976 as a French teacher in a private school. Students had to qualify with at least a B+ to take the course. A senior course was offered for those who did not qualify. I taught this A.P. course at a true college level.
By 1986 there were no longer any qualifications to enroll in an A.P. course. The public school where I taught received accolades in "US News and World Report" for the amount of students enrolled in A.P. courses. Sadly, these courses were not nearly the same as those I had taught previously. More than half the students struggled with the material and many of them did not even take the A.P. exam.
A.P. courses are supposed to be taught at a college level. Very few high school students can achieve that. That should not be seen as a deficiency within our system. Students can be challenged in advanced courses other than the A.P. In fact, without the rigid structure of the A.P. curriculum, students can memorize less and create more.
Let's be honest with our high school students. Let's challenge willing students with upper level courses and those who excel with A.P, courses. This may sound elitist, but it is a reality. And, after teaching for more than thirty years, I can honestly say that some of my most successful students did not take my A.P. course. The College Board is not and has never been the sole indicator of success.
By 1986 there were no longer any qualifications to enroll in an A.P. course. The public school where I taught received accolades in "US News and World Report" for the amount of students enrolled in A.P. courses. Sadly, these courses were not nearly the same as those I had taught previously. More than half the students struggled with the material and many of them did not even take the A.P. exam.
A.P. courses are supposed to be taught at a college level. Very few high school students can achieve that. That should not be seen as a deficiency within our system. Students can be challenged in advanced courses other than the A.P. In fact, without the rigid structure of the A.P. curriculum, students can memorize less and create more.
Let's be honest with our high school students. Let's challenge willing students with upper level courses and those who excel with A.P, courses. This may sound elitist, but it is a reality. And, after teaching for more than thirty years, I can honestly say that some of my most successful students did not take my A.P. course. The College Board is not and has never been the sole indicator of success.
19
The only appropriate placement for students with below grade level reading and math achievement is intensive remedial work - and it should be funded for daily extended sessions and summer classes. Better yet, remediation should start years earlier.
This is not a color issue - EVERYONE is capable - but a poverty is a terribly unequal opportunity destroyer. Please fund the after school and summer programs to teach these kids. Their future is our future, and it's worth it.
This is not a color issue - EVERYONE is capable - but a poverty is a terribly unequal opportunity destroyer. Please fund the after school and summer programs to teach these kids. Their future is our future, and it's worth it.
21
I am a fifth-year teacher in Brooklyn, and last year helped develop a pre-AP middle school history curriculum for my charter network that serves high-poverty and first-generation college students. We are laying the groundwork for students to achieve greater levels of success with AP courses and exams, and kids are enjoying the curriculum so far. AP-for-all is the right mindset but students must have consistently strong instruction prior to high school, too. I know that even if students don't pass, they're still exposed to rigorous content that will prepare them better for college, but I really, really want my students to earn college credit for all they work they've put in.
2
Back in the dark ages when I went to school you 4 courses to choose from college A which you had to take a foreign language for, college B heavy in math and science, business, and vocational/home ec. The "vocational school" in town was so good that the boys who graduated from there could go to college. In my senior year they started a program that you could take classes at the new community college but you needed your own car o get there. Not so good for most of the students.
One of the biggest problems I and many other students had was boredom. Most of us would have loved to have AP classes. That said just because they are called AP does not mean that they are challenging. My middle son was in AP biology at Woodson in Fairfax and his final project was to collect 50 wild flowers and to label them(common name) the same project I had in 7th grade in CT except we had to give both the Latin and the common name.
My oldest had a wonderful teacher in middle school in CT who told us she considered the curriculum just the starting point and that she would add to it. She expected (she said) that each student would rise to their own highest level.one can only hope to have a teacher like that.
One of the biggest problems I and many other students had was boredom. Most of us would have loved to have AP classes. That said just because they are called AP does not mean that they are challenging. My middle son was in AP biology at Woodson in Fairfax and his final project was to collect 50 wild flowers and to label them(common name) the same project I had in 7th grade in CT except we had to give both the Latin and the common name.
My oldest had a wonderful teacher in middle school in CT who told us she considered the curriculum just the starting point and that she would add to it. She expected (she said) that each student would rise to their own highest level.one can only hope to have a teacher like that.
4
"After all, many students receive passing grades in their courses while still failing the A.P. exam."
I've never seen the grade inflation crisis summarized so succinctly.
I've never seen the grade inflation crisis summarized so succinctly.
15
I agree with the comment of "steve, nyc"! When my kids were in a middle class suburban high school 10 years ago I had the same frustrations about the AP exams expressed by the teachers at low income schools in this article. There was a push in Baltimore County, driven, in part, by school rankings such as Newsweek's, to increase enrollment in AP classes, but it always felt like an Alice in Wonderland looking glass world, where the school system bragged about participation, but the overall results from increasing the number of students in the classes, in terms of passing scores, were mediocre, and barely mentioned. The push to increase AP also results in some teachers being pressed into teaching these classes who are not trained or ready to teach GT, especially a class half-filled with students who didn't belong there. I felt it was distorting and it benefited neither the truly GT kids nor the ones who were not being given a curriculum that they could truly master, in the company of students who are at their level. I came to the conclusion that the big winner in AP is the College Board, which collects the money. Even GT students could benefit from the opportunity to pursue a more creative curriculum than what the AP channels them into, such as one oriented toward their producing a major interdisciplinary research project during the senior year.
5
I cannot believe the author of this article, chose to describe how Ms. Fuchs wears her hair! That immediately mademe think the rest of the article would be fluff.
Turned out not to be too fluffy. AP classes are designed for gifted and advanced students. They are not meant to be "For All". Subjecting kids who are not adequately prepared for these classes does them no good at all. Taking the AP test is a requirement of the AP class. Getting a non-passing score cannot be good for their self esteem.
Turned out not to be too fluffy. AP classes are designed for gifted and advanced students. They are not meant to be "For All". Subjecting kids who are not adequately prepared for these classes does them no good at all. Taking the AP test is a requirement of the AP class. Getting a non-passing score cannot be good for their self esteem.
8
This was the specific subject that an ed. Admin program student of mine took on last year. He teaches AP history. In the research phase of his project, he discovered lots of links on expanding WHO takes AP, for the reasons this article discusses. What there is very little research on is what makes under represented students successful. Note that this article is anecdotal - no research proven guidance provided. His project involved closer coordination and cross training/communication between AVID and AP teachers. And his school has built into the schedule a 25 minute free period when any student can go to any teacher for extra help with trained peer tutors in these classes, too. These are proactive ideas that can be replicated in virtually any high school. My role as his supervisor was to keep asking "what is your evidence (data) that this strategy is effective?" College Board has an obligation to put a hell of a lot more of the $$$ they are reaping into research grants on which approaches yield success!
4
I ain't believe the high school in the photo posts acceptance letters! This reminds me far too much of my high school, which read exam scores over the public address system. It was supposed to motivate low achieving students to try harder. It didn't work. All that happened was that I, who was always the top student and frequently got perfect on exams (including, one year, 7 out of 8 classes, with the 8th a 97), was subjected to bullying. Walking home was an exercise in terror. I ended up befriending the toughest dope dealer in my high school, giving him the combination to my locker, and ignoring everything on the top shelf, in exchange for him putting out the word to leave me alone. After that, he never got caught again, and I survived. No one was going to check the locker of the "brain." Why in heaven's name would they still do this??? You are making kids into targets!
11
Focusing on test outcomes for the AP classes totally misses the point of what AP classes can teach poor kids.
I've taught AP US History two ways: one year with two small classes of non-traditional AP students -- students of color, former English language learners, first-generation college, and students who received be free or reduced rate federal lunch. I've also taught two years with large classes of supposedly qualified students, most of whom are there because they are white and middle class and so we're tracked into honors classes in middle school.
More important than anything else, taking and passing AP courses, regardless of how they do on that very expensive test, convinces insecure students that they do indeed belong in college. It also prepares them for the hard work they'll need to do in college. Sometimes that's all it takes to keep them there.
The research that matters hasn't been done yet -- I.e., whether the percentage of disadvantaged AP students who pass the class go on to finish college is any higher than their socioecnomic peers who stay in regular high school courses. Anecdotally, I can tell you from experience it makes a difference, but we need hard data to confirm that. Of course, that wouldn't produce any revenue for the College Board, which this article forgets to mention attempted to make lots of money on the disastrous common core.
I've taught AP US History two ways: one year with two small classes of non-traditional AP students -- students of color, former English language learners, first-generation college, and students who received be free or reduced rate federal lunch. I've also taught two years with large classes of supposedly qualified students, most of whom are there because they are white and middle class and so we're tracked into honors classes in middle school.
More important than anything else, taking and passing AP courses, regardless of how they do on that very expensive test, convinces insecure students that they do indeed belong in college. It also prepares them for the hard work they'll need to do in college. Sometimes that's all it takes to keep them there.
The research that matters hasn't been done yet -- I.e., whether the percentage of disadvantaged AP students who pass the class go on to finish college is any higher than their socioecnomic peers who stay in regular high school courses. Anecdotally, I can tell you from experience it makes a difference, but we need hard data to confirm that. Of course, that wouldn't produce any revenue for the College Board, which this article forgets to mention attempted to make lots of money on the disastrous common core.
2
Between AP classes, Magnet schools and private school the bell curve in the average class room is skewed in the wrong direction, with most of the smart kids gone. Leaving a leadership vacuum that is filled by the loud clowns, thugs or jocks who have little interest in learning. We should stop trying to turn our high schools into colleges. If want your kid studying calculus at sixteen fine but you drive them to the local community college.
Our high schools are failing the average kids. Yet we continue to waste our resources on the top 5% while the rest of the kids get the worst teachers. Not everyone is going to college, what ever happened to vocational courses like wood shop, and welding etc?
Our high schools are failing the average kids. Yet we continue to waste our resources on the top 5% while the rest of the kids get the worst teachers. Not everyone is going to college, what ever happened to vocational courses like wood shop, and welding etc?
3
I appreciate the point, but it is IMHO criminal to deprive capable kids of challenging enriching curriculum. It is not the purpose of an educational institution to practice social engineering. Certainly not when that involves sacrificing our talented kids. This kind of mindset--that good students elevate others is utter nonsenes that enrages me. I am, by the way, a public school science teacher.
11
Like so many things in education policy, there are nuances that political expedience bypasses. The AP classes have lost a lost of meaning but lobbyists and policy makers are making emperor has new clothes decisions in their bubbles. With a growing number of colleges not accepting, a large amount of students not passing and the federal monies being spent on it -it seems to me the only one making out is the College Board.
2
This article raises some excellent points. The most fundamental of which is about limited resources. Is money and time best spent on pre-K and early childhood education or is it better spent on ensuring everyone has equal access to AP classes? I know my kid benefited greatly by their AP classes - both in terms of knowledge gained and skipping many first year college classes. But they were prepared to take them - starting from when they were growing up. It seems to me that many of the low income students highlighted in this article would benefit much more if the money and resources were spent elsewhere.
Of course we shouldn't think of this as a binary decision. But as long as we are segregated economically in our school districts, the limited resource question begs binary solutions. Each school district needs to make that decision themselves. Federal aid is important but it seems to me that each district should be able to decide how best to use the money. With enough different school districts, it seems we would have enough data to determine appropriate solutions for each case.
Of course we shouldn't think of this as a binary decision. But as long as we are segregated economically in our school districts, the limited resource question begs binary solutions. Each school district needs to make that decision themselves. Federal aid is important but it seems to me that each district should be able to decide how best to use the money. With enough different school districts, it seems we would have enough data to determine appropriate solutions for each case.
2
A couple I knew were from Africa. They were high achievers but very busy keeping their lives afloat in the SF BAY area. They didn't realize that even though their children were A students, they weren't getting a good education. All are in college, but they weren't well enough prepared to go into engineering. ALL students showing a capacity for the work should be educated to take the classes.
5
Having taught mathematics for over 30 years in a large state university, I can tell you a few things. First of all, any score lower than a 5 on the AP calculus test is suspect. Secondly, if high schools want to see where the disconnect is between AP test scores and their students, they should start first with the grades their calculus teachers are assigning. Anecdotally, one semester I had a class of roughly 35 first semester calculus students, and about 90% of them had had a calculus course in high school. None of the those students managed a grade higher than C+. They were unable demonstrate any knowledge of calculus beyond the basic formulae for differentiation and integration of simple expressions. The previous semesters, with the same tests, curriculum and homework, the majority of first year students earned A's and B's.
It has been my experience that the growth of AP calculus courses is more for the glory of the school boards than it is for the benefit of the students. This was true in the 1970's when I took the course, and seems unchanged to this day.
It has been my experience that the growth of AP calculus courses is more for the glory of the school boards than it is for the benefit of the students. This was true in the 1970's when I took the course, and seems unchanged to this day.
13
First, full disclosure. I have written 7'books on rigor and train teachers and principals on rigor.
There is a clear need to increase rigor in our classrooms. Increasing enrollment in AP is one strategy. However, there are two problems. First, as the article points out, not all students should be in AP courses. More Importantly , there is an assumption that no other courses are rigorous. There are many rigorous classrooms for struggling students, and teachers pair that rigor with appropriate support, which is lacking for at-risk students in some AP classes. In order to help all students be successful, the solution is to have high expectations for everyone and for teachers to do whatever it takes to help students meet those expectations. This also means not creating a hierarchy of "the best teachers are promoted to teach AP courses". When our most struggling students have a disproportionate amount of new teachers, non-certified teachers, or long-term substitute teachers, we do them a disservice.
There is a clear need to increase rigor in our classrooms. Increasing enrollment in AP is one strategy. However, there are two problems. First, as the article points out, not all students should be in AP courses. More Importantly , there is an assumption that no other courses are rigorous. There are many rigorous classrooms for struggling students, and teachers pair that rigor with appropriate support, which is lacking for at-risk students in some AP classes. In order to help all students be successful, the solution is to have high expectations for everyone and for teachers to do whatever it takes to help students meet those expectations. This also means not creating a hierarchy of "the best teachers are promoted to teach AP courses". When our most struggling students have a disproportionate amount of new teachers, non-certified teachers, or long-term substitute teachers, we do them a disservice.
6
Why are they putting students in these classes who can't read?
Why are they allowing students in any regular high school classes who can't read?
Children's academic careers shouldn't be sacrificed just so the numbers look good. If a kid needs to be held back, hold the kid back.
Which is better? A kid who takes 15 years and graduates a proficient reader, or a kid who takes 13 years and still struggles with reading?
Why are they allowing students in any regular high school classes who can't read?
Children's academic careers shouldn't be sacrificed just so the numbers look good. If a kid needs to be held back, hold the kid back.
Which is better? A kid who takes 15 years and graduates a proficient reader, or a kid who takes 13 years and still struggles with reading?
10
"Why are they putting students in these classes who can't read?"
And why do they all have laptops in front of them? The NYT should investigate who received the public dollars for that initiative.
And why do they all have laptops in front of them? The NYT should investigate who received the public dollars for that initiative.
6
Different AP classes accomplish different things.
AP Global, AP US History and other text based courses are terrific for upping the game in using a higher level text indeoendently and writing skills for non-fiction content.
AP English Language will help with writing skills regardless of final AP text score.
AP Calculus scores of 5 is a terrific accomplishment but means 63% of the test correct so there needs to be honesty in ones abilities if a student is then taking college courses that require a strong understanding of calculus.
As in any course, for the majority of students, the instructor will make or break the end results. Students of higher socio-economic standing may have additional and critical support from parents or access to tutors all year and prep courses for the exam. A top-rated high school in an middle-upper middle class area may have amazing AP teachers and also not-so wonderful AP teachers.
Students need to pick and choose AP courses accordingly based on a variety of factors. Personal interest in the topic is essential. There seems to be a push for more students to take AP and multiple courses. It shouldn't be about looking good for college, helping a high school rise in rankings but rather a pursuit of learning for learning's sake.
AP Global, AP US History and other text based courses are terrific for upping the game in using a higher level text indeoendently and writing skills for non-fiction content.
AP English Language will help with writing skills regardless of final AP text score.
AP Calculus scores of 5 is a terrific accomplishment but means 63% of the test correct so there needs to be honesty in ones abilities if a student is then taking college courses that require a strong understanding of calculus.
As in any course, for the majority of students, the instructor will make or break the end results. Students of higher socio-economic standing may have additional and critical support from parents or access to tutors all year and prep courses for the exam. A top-rated high school in an middle-upper middle class area may have amazing AP teachers and also not-so wonderful AP teachers.
Students need to pick and choose AP courses accordingly based on a variety of factors. Personal interest in the topic is essential. There seems to be a push for more students to take AP and multiple courses. It shouldn't be about looking good for college, helping a high school rise in rankings but rather a pursuit of learning for learning's sake.
3
Advanced classes of any kind usually require a thorough understanding of the basics before taking an advanced class. Requirements of academic rigor should start with the basic classes with not so much attention to AP and the regular curriculum should be rigorous enough to ensure success at the collegiate level. Offering or mandating AP classes does little or nothing to ensure a quality basic education that would make it possible to succeed in an AP class.
7
You are right! Whenever people justify low AP exam scores by touting the college prep benefits of their AP course, I wonder, "If your AP courses are only college prep, then what are your other high school courses achieving?
Placing unprepared kids in AP courses violates one of the most bedrock theories of learning: that we cannot acquire new, more advanced knowledge unless we can connect to prior, more basic knowledge. Without that prior knolwedge, kids will not learn in AP!
Placing unprepared kids in AP courses violates one of the most bedrock theories of learning: that we cannot acquire new, more advanced knowledge unless we can connect to prior, more basic knowledge. Without that prior knolwedge, kids will not learn in AP!
7
In Dallas, we are forced to make sure that EVERY child takes at least one "pre AP" class a year once they are out of elementary--even if they cannot read or can only read in Spanish.
Remember that our pay is tied to test scores; the kids who cannot read or can only read in Spanish take the "pre AP" tests written by the district and--big surprise--fail.
They are then pushed into AP classes in high school.
The net effect is that teacher pay in Dallas is purposely limited (causing constant turnover) while the test-makers score a huge payday, which they, of course, use to reward administrators in the district.
Kids? They get to keep failing tests and feeling like failures.
Admin never tells the kids they failed a test; they make teachers tell the kids.
Remember that our pay is tied to test scores; the kids who cannot read or can only read in Spanish take the "pre AP" tests written by the district and--big surprise--fail.
They are then pushed into AP classes in high school.
The net effect is that teacher pay in Dallas is purposely limited (causing constant turnover) while the test-makers score a huge payday, which they, of course, use to reward administrators in the district.
Kids? They get to keep failing tests and feeling like failures.
Admin never tells the kids they failed a test; they make teachers tell the kids.
15
What the article doesn't say is that, not only do most students not benefit from AP courses, they are also harmed: even (perhaps especially) those getting a 4 or a 5 are saddled with the notion that calculus, say, is all about preparing for exams and knowing how to study a few canned problems. Never mind the theorems and definitions and creative problem solving. I've had a number of 4 and 5 students who fail calculus because they've developed a bad attitude about it from the AP courses. Teach high school in high school; college in college.
20
I agree, but would like to add that "high school level" isn't an insult. High school level SHOULD mean something. Well educated students working hard on their courses should apply to high school level ones too. We are too quick to skip to college without embracing high school achievement in its own.
8
On rereading the initial comments would like to clarify the last sentence. 14. If something seems wrong at the school at anytime and it has not been remedied then go to the highest school authority. Discuss your concerns and do not go away until you understand better your issue(s). Always be polite and try hard to listen. Your involvement in your child's development is your primary responsibility. Your kids whole life depends on your active involvement for yours and its lifetime.
2
I teach in a public HIgh School in Harlem and have taught AP European History for the past 17 years. We have a robust AP program, with 11 present offerings.
Our teachers conduct a rigorous selection process for their AP classes, and our school is, by default, 100% inclusive based on the demographics of our student population: 80% African-American/African/Carribean and 20% Latino.
What I continue to find most heartening is the climate within our school, within our classes, where each and every year you will have the average to above average student step up, rise to the challenge, and suddenly find themselves engaged in work that, without that crucible of expectation and effort, would simply be beyond their reach. I am aware of the statistics nationwide concerning both participation rates and performance on end of the year exams, but I can only speak of what I have witnessed in my school, a Title 1 School: AP classes are game changers because they put our students in the competitive hunt with their cohorts from far more advantaged neighborhoods. We have teachers who consistently outperform national pass rates for their discipline.
As my brand new AP Euro class spent Friday, our second day together, discussing Mirandola's famous Humanist treatise on Man and his place in the Great Chain of Being, I was both stunned but not surprised at what can be accomplished if high expectations can intersect with interesting material.
Go Lions!!!
Our teachers conduct a rigorous selection process for their AP classes, and our school is, by default, 100% inclusive based on the demographics of our student population: 80% African-American/African/Carribean and 20% Latino.
What I continue to find most heartening is the climate within our school, within our classes, where each and every year you will have the average to above average student step up, rise to the challenge, and suddenly find themselves engaged in work that, without that crucible of expectation and effort, would simply be beyond their reach. I am aware of the statistics nationwide concerning both participation rates and performance on end of the year exams, but I can only speak of what I have witnessed in my school, a Title 1 School: AP classes are game changers because they put our students in the competitive hunt with their cohorts from far more advantaged neighborhoods. We have teachers who consistently outperform national pass rates for their discipline.
As my brand new AP Euro class spent Friday, our second day together, discussing Mirandola's famous Humanist treatise on Man and his place in the Great Chain of Being, I was both stunned but not surprised at what can be accomplished if high expectations can intersect with interesting material.
Go Lions!!!
14
I took every AP class offered at my high school, and it nearly trimmed off 2 years of college taking the "required classes", and the zoo that is the 2 year sequence in math for every STEM student. You can get your BA for half the cost, or stay 4 years and finish your credit requirement with graduate level courses.
In HS you will be in a small-ish class with extremely motivated students, and away from the general population which considers studying a waste of time. Even if you get 1-2 points on the exam, you will know what it actually takes to be a good student. Work harder on the next class.
Getting ready for AP does start early. Third grade sounds about right. The solution in our school system was to put children at the back of the room and give them extra assignments. This had the additional benefit of displacing the trouble makers out of the back rows.
In HS you will be in a small-ish class with extremely motivated students, and away from the general population which considers studying a waste of time. Even if you get 1-2 points on the exam, you will know what it actually takes to be a good student. Work harder on the next class.
Getting ready for AP does start early. Third grade sounds about right. The solution in our school system was to put children at the back of the room and give them extra assignments. This had the additional benefit of displacing the trouble makers out of the back rows.
8
In general I think A.P. classes are a good way to ensure students receive challenging material in school. I therefore think schools should provide classes that follow A.P. class curriculum. However, I do have some complaints and suggestions. They are as follows:
Complaints:
1. Enable students in not having to take more than one exam per day. Currently it is possible for a student to be scheduled to take two exams on the same day, one in the morning and another in the afternoon. This is RIDICULOUS.
2. Cap the fee for the entire set of exams to be no more than 100 dollars. A student taking 3-4 classes (not uncommon) will end up paying close to 300 - 400 dollars an amount that is no small change.
Suggestions:
1. Open up students to take A.P. classes based on their past academic performance. Students who are not motivated should not be allowed to distract and dilute the experience of an A.P. class. This is common sense, you are not denying opportunity, you are asking them to earn it.
2. Students should be able to register for an A.P. exam only if they have secured a baseline performance in the class through the year. No point in taking an exam if you are not prepared for it. Getting a low score means in most situations means one is not motivated.
Complaints:
1. Enable students in not having to take more than one exam per day. Currently it is possible for a student to be scheduled to take two exams on the same day, one in the morning and another in the afternoon. This is RIDICULOUS.
2. Cap the fee for the entire set of exams to be no more than 100 dollars. A student taking 3-4 classes (not uncommon) will end up paying close to 300 - 400 dollars an amount that is no small change.
Suggestions:
1. Open up students to take A.P. classes based on their past academic performance. Students who are not motivated should not be allowed to distract and dilute the experience of an A.P. class. This is common sense, you are not denying opportunity, you are asking them to earn it.
2. Students should be able to register for an A.P. exam only if they have secured a baseline performance in the class through the year. No point in taking an exam if you are not prepared for it. Getting a low score means in most situations means one is not motivated.
8
Can one wonder if the students might be better served by
an Honor's Course that allows the teacher to proceed at a pace
that fits that particular class of students.
Students who are clearly unqualified to be in the course and
are not willing to do the work required and disrupt the course
should not be in the course.
Just taking the AP course really means very little and reflects the
shallow thinking of most Liberals who refuse to do the hard work
necessary for true and productive reform in our schools.
an Honor's Course that allows the teacher to proceed at a pace
that fits that particular class of students.
Students who are clearly unqualified to be in the course and
are not willing to do the work required and disrupt the course
should not be in the course.
Just taking the AP course really means very little and reflects the
shallow thinking of most Liberals who refuse to do the hard work
necessary for true and productive reform in our schools.
11
It isn't just Liberals. Trust me. Been there, seen sloth at all ends of the spectrum.
3
This article is not so much about AP tests as to how students in impoverished districts suffer all up the line--AP just makes it crystal clear that poor basic skills training in Grades 1-8 and low expectations have taken their toll on the students by Grade 9. Low expectations by parents is not the teacher's fault. Parents allow their children to miss school, allow their children to miss assignments, allow their children to use money for video games as opposed to books. It is not the AP's fault--it's parental expectations that start with birth. It is not race/ethnicity--look at the Board of Education reports that go back well over 100 years--parents living in poverty do not provide an environment for their children that encourages education--100 years ago, poorly educated, primary school dropouts included Jews, Asians, etc. The only difference--you could get a job with an 8th grade education that helped to sustain your family.
Most civilized countries give every parent a child stipend. Not an entitlement. Many tie receiving the child stipend to children's attendance in school--so poor parents have a real incentive to make sure their kids are attending, doing homework, etc. And of course, most countries also have universal health care, so children don't miss school because of health issues. In this country, children living in poverty don't have proper glasses, proper dental care, etc--all of which can cause learning problems.
Most civilized countries give every parent a child stipend. Not an entitlement. Many tie receiving the child stipend to children's attendance in school--so poor parents have a real incentive to make sure their kids are attending, doing homework, etc. And of course, most countries also have universal health care, so children don't miss school because of health issues. In this country, children living in poverty don't have proper glasses, proper dental care, etc--all of which can cause learning problems.
13
This article is very disappointing and very damaging to the efforts that some of us are putting in to get more minority students college ready. The article and other respondants simply gloss over the the fact that there are many benefits for a student taking AP Classes besides a passing grade. College applicants get a leg up, AP takers are more likely to complete their degrees ( a huge issue for us black folk ), the students gain more confidence in their academic abilities. Over 50% of underserved minorities in NY had 0 chance at taking AP Classes because they went to a school that didn't offer any. A huge disadvantage to them compared to their peers of other races. Individualize. Demographics should not be their destiny. We need to provide the same chances everyone elses children have. Doing anything else is simply unfair to these kids.
3
How are school treating kids fairly and giving kids the same opportunities as other schools if they so water down their AP courses that they become AP in name only?
And how do you know that these supposed benefits aren't due to other factors that are already true of the kids that tend to enroll in AP classes?
And how do you know that these supposed benefits aren't due to other factors that are already true of the kids that tend to enroll in AP classes?
6
Providing the same chances for everyone includes holding everyone to the same standards once the chance is offered. And those chances have to start very early and student achievement must be monitored continuously to see who has earned a chance and who has forfeited a chance once it is given.
1
Agree - this is the crux of the issue. Access and equity. I mean, is the solution to roll it all back and offer LESS AP? Of course not. Many good points made about other necessary advances in order to help every child succeed in AP course, if attempted. Kudos to Ms. Fuchs and all educators.
Does not benefit students who are not used to such pressure and would be better served in accelerated classes. It is also a pay day for district administrators who get bonuses for sending students to AP classes. These same admins rarely, if ever, taught AP so have no idea of thr pressures on students. Sadly, US News stupidly rates schools based upon the metric of number of students in AP classes so admins want schools to look good and demand students take AP with minimal preparation or understanding of AP. Students in Naperville, IL rebelled against the pressure cooker of AP. NW suburban schools admins near O'Hare also also pressuring students into AP to make them look good while condemning content. AP is content and skills. marginal students sometimes benefit from AP, but the true beneficiaries are high school district administrators who have bonuses tied to AP and care nothing about appropriate placement when their bonuses are on the line.
7
I know why every parent who can afford to is pulling their kids out of public school & putting them in private. To not do so would sabotaged their future. This beyond a disaster, our public school system is officially pathetic. The people taking these classes are theoretically the smartest students! Ponder for a second some of this article's observations:"Many were surprised to learn that (Social Security) is also a retirement program. (What???I learned this when I was in the 5th grade...5th grade!) "I’ve got five to six kids reading on grade level,...“The rest are significantly below grade level.” (How is this possible?) I’m lucky to have a 30 percent return on homework.” (Why is this tolerated?) "in which students learn skills like note-taking, outlining & intellectual discipline." (Wow. These kids are a few years from graduating. Why haven't they learned this yet?) It's not our fault that the government is unable to impart the needed skills, knowledge, & perspective to its students. These students don't possess the needed communication & computational skills to succeed in college & the working world today. That is a fact beyond debate. What a tragedy. The DOE says a huge percentage of high school graduates can't read or write on a college level. This is fraud. A high school diploma should mean something...it doesn't anymore. That isn't hyperbole. That's reality. Sad. You can't fault parents for running away from schools that don't work anymore. Our kids deserve better.
5
I am wondering why our legal system has not been treating the deceit in public schools as fraud for legal purposes. What would it take for that to happen?
1
I think this is exactly what the teacher who was interviewed in the article was talking about - people who train the teachers in AP don't understand the environment that teachers are working under.
I can give you many reasons why this happens. In NYS schools receive an F for equitable funding, so poorer schools do not yet what they need. Add to that the fact that students are transient and may be in as many as 5 or 6 schools in their high school career. Others come to this country from war torn lands where they have not been in regular schooling in their own language, and then they have to get up to speed in their new language. Some kids may not do their homework because the electricity has been cut off in their home, so once the sun starts setting early, it is hard to get it done. Well, you get the idea.
I can give you many reasons why this happens. In NYS schools receive an F for equitable funding, so poorer schools do not yet what they need. Add to that the fact that students are transient and may be in as many as 5 or 6 schools in their high school career. Others come to this country from war torn lands where they have not been in regular schooling in their own language, and then they have to get up to speed in their new language. Some kids may not do their homework because the electricity has been cut off in their home, so once the sun starts setting early, it is hard to get it done. Well, you get the idea.
1
AP averages plummet with non-appropriate students en masse. But admins in suburban Chicago get bonuses for numbers. They get cash; kids get stressed.
4
Terrific article about a difficult subject.
1
To see a rise in high school academic achievement there must be a concerted focus on educating kindergarden, elementary and middle school youth. Document and have an evolving academic plan for each child from K-12. Have one period each day to work on guided homework in core areas of math and reading. Use peer learning. Have 8th graders assisting the teacher with 6th graders. The U.S. really has not been serious about public education...pay is primarily State based and differs from county to county with poorest paid teachers in poorest areas of the State. College Education departments control through State agencies licensure and this determines who can teach. Einstein can teach physics at Princeton but he could not teach "unlicensed" for more than a years in most counties of N.C. The problems with public education in America are bipartisan...both li erals and conservatives in each party are responsible and this is shameful. Local "control" of education is a farce. I praise President Bush and the late Sen. Ted Kennedy for "No Child Left Behind"....testing from elementary through high school is common sense. It is criminal to push a child through the "system" based upon time or age and not grade level performance. If a child graduates high school and is illiterate in reading and basic math our society has "aborted" that childs economic future. For those youth not attending traditional college, technical or vocational education must be free and available.
1
My problem with AP classes are the tests. In the best of circumstances- few students receive high enough scores to warrant the time and expense of paying for the tests. In California, most high schools have relationships with community colleges where High School students can take lower division classes free (many can rent or check out college text books)- starting in their sophomore year. A good number of them graduate with a High School diploma and their Associate's Degree at the same time. Ten years ago, my child decided to forego the AP and Honors classes route; instead enrolling in a community college in the Junior year. (It was cheaper than the cost of each AP exam). After graduating H.S.- she began her college career as a sophomore at a 4 year CSU (California State University) with a year's worth of lower division transfer units. Personally, I believe A.P. courses is an oversold idea offering little in return.
7
I remember telling my son to skip AP classes to protect his grade point for college admission. He refused. He graduated in (3) years from a private four year university with honors. That saved me $60K for the fourth year.
3
I'm a high school teacher - the move toward heterogeneous grouping is a boon to the College Board. AP classes become the stand-in for honors classes. A student should be able to take a rigorous class in any subject without having to go the AP route. Is there data on how many students take AP classes who don't end up even sitting for the exam?
2
I don't think there is macro data about course enrollment, but I encourage you to request such data from your own school district to find out what the REAL passing rate is. In Douglas County GA we found that over half were NOT taking exams. Consequently only about 10% of AP students were passing the exam!
3
I've been helping a Chinese professor of education in China do some research on the education reform struggle in the USA since World War II, and especially after No Child Left Behind was introduced. From the documents I have read to help my friend, my opinion about standardized testing became more nuanced with time. I think Obama was right to exert federal pressure on all USA schools to provide a measurable level of equlaity and equity in state provision of service; he had not other lever at the national level. This policy has put much needed light on the real state of education across the nation; state and local school officials had been forced politically to select and incentivize social elites in school, and channel to socially less favored to think of themselves as suited to a vocational path. That is not to say one-off standardized tests, at AP levels, or elsewhere are a great pedagogical too.
Yet testing can be pedagogically sensible and motivating to student learners. What I would suggest is a developed battery of tests in each subject with real value as an aid to developing conceputal skills. The tests would be student self-challenged: students would ask to sit the exam, and would have three chances to take it; follow-up material would be given to the students to allow them to judge for themselves, and with their "learning coaches" what they got right and what they got wrong. The student could select which exam to make count for subject qualification. Why not?
Yet testing can be pedagogically sensible and motivating to student learners. What I would suggest is a developed battery of tests in each subject with real value as an aid to developing conceputal skills. The tests would be student self-challenged: students would ask to sit the exam, and would have three chances to take it; follow-up material would be given to the students to allow them to judge for themselves, and with their "learning coaches" what they got right and what they got wrong. The student could select which exam to make count for subject qualification. Why not?
3
Not about being elite students anymore. Beginning around 2012 it was an effort by AP to have schools increasingly rated by the number of students in AP classes. At that point, accelerated classes more appropriate for most students were on the way out led by district administrators who worried more about their schools' status at US News than what was best for the students in their charge. AP was super-rigorous in the past, but has had to water-down to make it more palatable to the masses. And administrators find their financial rewards from AP with high bonuses and kickback-like pay for having more students take more tests. Suburban Chicago is completely wrapped up in this led by less-able leaders whose interest is their own payouts and status with school boards and less about students. Students are unprepared for the demands of such classes so districts respond by eliminating 0 and instituting 40% for doing nothing so the risk in taking AP is not so great to fragile students. They add yoga and other stress management ideas for students woefully under-prepared for even watered-down rigor. But it is all about making schools look good and keeping admin bonuses coming.
5
The only thing that I know that works is consider taking a class at a community college about child care while pregnant: 1. when your child is little even before they talk read to it. Pick age appropriate books with a lot of pictures at first and point out the objects in the pictures. 2.don't let your kids watch more than an hour a day of TV or equivalent 3. Keep reading to them and gradually get them to sound out words 4. If you have any concerns about the rate of development of you kid go see a specialist at a local university or children's hospital 5. Keep reading and discussing books and let it chose ones it likes. 6. Put your kid in a certified day care center if need be 7. talk with other parents or your parent about your concerns. 8. By age 3 enroll kid in a public educational day care program and visit it about once a week as a visitor, volunteer 9 If you find yourself uncomfortable definitely volunteer 10. Later regularly take time to talk with teachers find out how to help. 11. If you can't find someone to help you with the kids school work 12. If you feel something is not right talk w teacher, principal or administrator 13 The road to you kids success is your consist active involvement. 14 if something seems wrong go to the highest school authority discuss issue and do not go away. Your kids whole life depends on your active involvement for you lifetime.
2
Reading this article was like watching a political speech - a few good soundbites with few coherent or well thought out arguments. A lot of talking in circles to say nothing of real importance. Students who are black and Hispanic are performing lower on the tests due to the ever widening achievement gap - the underlying point made by the author and one that is seen throughout the educational community when it comes to standardizes tests. And while the author points out that this is the true issue, she does not suggest how AP provides a disadvantage to these students. While she appears to take issue with the big money corporation that is College Board, the teachers, leaders, and students who benefit from the expansion of AP are being left out in the cold to the subjugation of readers who read the soundbites and ignore the larger holes in the argument. (PT 1)
6
The disadvantages are, first, forcing students to read a text at frustration level. They get nothing from that. Second, the cost of the test. If you score a 1 it really doesn't pay, does it? Third, anecdotes aside, there is no study that indicates that a student getting a 1 or 2 derives any benefit from an AP course.
I can't decide which is more disheartening, the article or the comments. I have taught AP for fourteen years in both a diverse, high poverty school and a small, rural school. It's not the idea of the test scores but the philosophy of what AP brings to the table that should be talked about. After all, not every student scores a 5, even under the best circumstances.
I do not see the score as the goal. I do rejoice with my students when they score in the 3-5 range but I don't discount the students who scored below a 3. I don't limit my course to only those students who are ready to "pass" the exam. I offer it openly to any student who is willing to take on that challenge - and more than once, I've had students take the course just to improve their base skills before going to college.
It is those skills that drive students to AP courses and those same skills that they will use in college. AP students enter college with a better understanding of the course work expected of them and stronger skills than those taking standard courses. And, as one commentor already said, there's nothing better than hearing that your AP course was tougher than the college course a student is taking.
Maybe instead of limiting exposure to AP courses or doing away with it, we should instead be offering AP for all. My students who started at levels lower than high school would certainly applaud that decision.
I do not see the score as the goal. I do rejoice with my students when they score in the 3-5 range but I don't discount the students who scored below a 3. I don't limit my course to only those students who are ready to "pass" the exam. I offer it openly to any student who is willing to take on that challenge - and more than once, I've had students take the course just to improve their base skills before going to college.
It is those skills that drive students to AP courses and those same skills that they will use in college. AP students enter college with a better understanding of the course work expected of them and stronger skills than those taking standard courses. And, as one commentor already said, there's nothing better than hearing that your AP course was tougher than the college course a student is taking.
Maybe instead of limiting exposure to AP courses or doing away with it, we should instead be offering AP for all. My students who started at levels lower than high school would certainly applaud that decision.
13
If your AP courses are merely college prep, and not college level, then how they different from regular or honors high school courses, which are supposed to be college prep? And how are they real AP courses if students aren't really learning the AP curriculum, as indicated by exam performance?
4
@jnoonan. Even in my middle-class community, students are forced to choose between the general curriculum (which is designed to prepare a student for entry into the job market or admission to a non-selective college) and AP courses in many areas. Honors or other accelerated curricula have gradually been eliminated. In such a situation, students take AP courses as college prep, because that's their best option.
1
Trevor Packer said it in just one sentence. “I would rather have a culture where we take risks on giving opportunities to kids.” The goal of the AP program is to give all students of taking advanced classes and learning. Many people argue that providing AP classes in failing schools is a waste of time. Yet, as long as any of those students taking the classes learn from it or are given the opportunity to succeed, then the program is just in its expansion. Taking in AP classes in high school can be a gateway for many students living below the poverty line to gain college credit and make a better life for themselves and their families in the future.
It is also very clear that College Board is not expanding for the purpose of financial gain. College Board is a company like any other and is looking for longevity, however, the company is non-profit and does not raise prices to discriminate against those who can not afford the tests. The company must break even to continue to provide tests in the future.
AP classes are not solely about receiving college credit. They are about challenging students to learn and advance intellectually. Even students that do not succeed are set to a higher standard in the future. Other solutions to this problem such as individualized honors programs would not allow for college credit and would not incentivize students in struggling students to work any harder than they are currently.
It is also very clear that College Board is not expanding for the purpose of financial gain. College Board is a company like any other and is looking for longevity, however, the company is non-profit and does not raise prices to discriminate against those who can not afford the tests. The company must break even to continue to provide tests in the future.
AP classes are not solely about receiving college credit. They are about challenging students to learn and advance intellectually. Even students that do not succeed are set to a higher standard in the future. Other solutions to this problem such as individualized honors programs would not allow for college credit and would not incentivize students in struggling students to work any harder than they are currently.
10
They aren't solely about earning college credit, but they are mainly about earning college credit. Would the AP program even exist if it weren't possible to get credit via the exam? 'Advanced placement' means getting ahead in college. How can an AP program be successful if it does not fulfill its MAIN purpose in the lives of the majority of its students?
1
When my older daughter enrolled at Brown a few years ago their policy was that you would not get AP credit until you took a course at a college or university for which your AP course was a prerequisite and that you earned a satisfactory grade in that course. That seems true to the ideal of advanced placement rather than the current scheme of save money and graduate faster!
Interesting question, jnoonan. I have had experience with both AP and IB courses. In my experience, the IB program is more akin to college level classes than AP courses are. But fewer colleges give credit for IB than AP. Now I am wondering if this affects enrollment in these two types of courses.
Preparation is a big part of the problem with AP. Students need to have taken rigorous prep courses as part of an overall academic program in order to succeed on the AP exams. I taught AP Spanish at a low income high school that also offered AP biology and an AP math course. The success rate in biology and math was low because the students had not had rigorous science and math courses in earlier grades. Scores were quite good in AP Spanish language and literature because many students were native speakers, which gave them some preparation for the rigor of the courses. (There are two AP exams for each foreign language--one in language and the other literature.) My observation, however, was that these low income students benefited more from taking community college courses while in high school; in addition to academic rigor, they had the tangible benefit of earning college credit for free. Some of my AP students received credit from their colleges based on their AP scores, but it's a gamble. Colleges do not guarantee credit for good AP scores; state universities are more likely to offer credit, more elite schools no.
6
But my anecdotal is not hard data. However, the "hard data" she presents is not targeted towards the population she discusses. She says that the suggestion more students in the AP for All program go to college and have a greater success is not backed by data because those who get 2's and below do not have a higher success rate in college ("And while the College Board has published one study indicating that students who get a 2 on the exam may also do slightly better, even Packer at the College Board says that benefit is unproven"). However, this data is non specific to the population she is studying. She does not answer the more difficult to research questions - do the students enrolled in AP for all across the country attend more 4 year colleges than their counter parts at their schools? Do these students have higher SAT scores? Do these students feel they have benefitted from the classes in a way that changed the direction of their life? If the answer to any of these questions is a resounding yes, the money is worth it for all those who are directly impacted by it. (Pt 3)
2
The answer to these questions is probably all 'yes.' However, that is not necessarily because the AP experience is what makes the difference. No matter how low the bar for AP participation in the school is, the AP courses will still be relatively higher than the non-AP courses, and thus will always attract the better students. But this is all relative. The students attracted to the AP level are going to have a host of other characteristics that are predictive for college attendance. But the net effect lowering the AP bar is to lower the bar for everyone.
1
There is little evidence of what is learned in an AP course but it enjoys a prestige beyond its merits. Its syllabus is overstuffed with topics. Thus there is no time for students to develop conceptual understanding and its mostly taught by the ineffective method of lecturing. The AP course is fundamentally more directed at the memorizing answers and less to goal of building functional knowledge.
Unfortunately, the AP is held in regard. Schools claim superiority over other schools by the number of AP courses offered. Colleges use it as a simplistic measurement of academic preparation and it is over-valued as an admission criterion. It ruinously creates an educational system of “have” and “have not” by increasing division and inequality.
The AP course does not benefit the overall mission of education but it is a boon to the profits of the testing industry.
Unfortunately, the AP is held in regard. Schools claim superiority over other schools by the number of AP courses offered. Colleges use it as a simplistic measurement of academic preparation and it is over-valued as an admission criterion. It ruinously creates an educational system of “have” and “have not” by increasing division and inequality.
The AP course does not benefit the overall mission of education but it is a boon to the profits of the testing industry.
3
If college admissions was merit-based, the students who would benefit the most from the expansion of AP classes should be the public school students from all over the country who outscored privileged private school students on their AP exams. (The British system works like this).
For students who may not be able to "pass" (i.e. get a 3) on an exam for advanced learners, why isn't there still a benefit to being asked to stretch their minds? Shouldn't a teacher be commended for stretching the minds of a class of at-risk students who may not have the most preparation but are being challenged because of a choice they made to take a challenging AP class? Does it matter whether they score a 1 on an exam if they got to learn material in a more challenging way than they might have in a regular history class for students not interested in challenging themselves?
For students who may not be able to "pass" (i.e. get a 3) on an exam for advanced learners, why isn't there still a benefit to being asked to stretch their minds? Shouldn't a teacher be commended for stretching the minds of a class of at-risk students who may not have the most preparation but are being challenged because of a choice they made to take a challenging AP class? Does it matter whether they score a 1 on an exam if they got to learn material in a more challenging way than they might have in a regular history class for students not interested in challenging themselves?
6
If they score a 1 on the exam, then by definition they did not learn the material (unless the AP tests are not a valid measure of what people actually know about the curriculum). Learning theory tells us that grappling with material just above our knowledge level is beneficial, and possible to learn with proper support/scaffolding, but that if this gap is too large, learning cannot and will not take place. My own 10 and 12 year old children read at a very high level because we have exposed them to texts just above their level their whole lives. But I've made the mistake of giving them materials WAY ABOVE their level, and it just exasperates them to tears because they simply cannot yet comprehend it. This isn't challenging; this is cruelty.
1
AP is curriculum.
The scores are also based on writing. Learning to use evidence from documents to support an opinion or thesis is not beyond the capabilities of students who are motivated to take that class. But it is certainly possibly their writing will be judged sub-standard. So what? Why does that matter if they are learning that?
The scores are also based on writing. Learning to use evidence from documents to support an opinion or thesis is not beyond the capabilities of students who are motivated to take that class. But it is certainly possibly their writing will be judged sub-standard. So what? Why does that matter if they are learning that?
I was surprised that the authors did not mention the influence of the Washington Post's Challenge Index which ranked high schools based on the percentage of the senior class that was enrolled in AP courses without considering results.
28
I took the PSAT, SAT and several AP exams throughout my high school career.
Personally, I think college board is a racket, but I don't see any downside into putting rigorous academic classes in schools can do harm, provided they're evenly applied.
One benefit this article glosses over is college credit. My roommate in college had so many AP credits that she entered her freshman year technically with sophomore status. When tuition is $62k a year, that head start is HUGE financially.
Personally, I think college board is a racket, but I don't see any downside into putting rigorous academic classes in schools can do harm, provided they're evenly applied.
One benefit this article glosses over is college credit. My roommate in college had so many AP credits that she entered her freshman year technically with sophomore status. When tuition is $62k a year, that head start is HUGE financially.
19
You are SO RIGHT about the college credit benefit. Even if tuition is effectively $0 due to financial aid, there are still living expenses. There are the problems with fitting mandated courses into a student's schedule - it is not unusual for even high-achievers to have to do summer school or even an extra semester in order to graduate, simply because of scheduling problems. Having some credits in the bank when a student starts simply gives him/her so much more freedom, which can translate into real money.
1
I was a student from a poor family that was able to save a year's tuition in college because of 4 AP courses. That makes a huge difference. It did in 1970, when I graduated high school and it must make an even bigger difference now when tuition has gone up so much.
I went to a high school that sent 30% of graduates to four year colleges. Granted, this is nowhere near as bad as the schools in the article, but it was listed as a failing school by whatever program Bush was instituting at the time.
Nevertheless, I did well on AP exams and did not feel disadvantaged competing against students from richer high schools at an Ivy League university. Even though my high school was on the whole not competitive, it was large enough where the top 5-10% could take AP courses and have an experience more like that of a wealthier school district.
No one was keeping anyone out of the AP courses, but if they were mandated as requirements, I'm sure the quality of the class would degrade as the teachers spent more energy on the very bottom of the class.
For the high schools that are struggling all around in general, I can see how expanding APs at least gives students the exposure to college level work. In high schools like mine where there were high and low performers, you may jeopardize the scores of the higher performers by lowering the pace of instruction.
Nevertheless, I did well on AP exams and did not feel disadvantaged competing against students from richer high schools at an Ivy League university. Even though my high school was on the whole not competitive, it was large enough where the top 5-10% could take AP courses and have an experience more like that of a wealthier school district.
No one was keeping anyone out of the AP courses, but if they were mandated as requirements, I'm sure the quality of the class would degrade as the teachers spent more energy on the very bottom of the class.
For the high schools that are struggling all around in general, I can see how expanding APs at least gives students the exposure to college level work. In high schools like mine where there were high and low performers, you may jeopardize the scores of the higher performers by lowering the pace of instruction.
13
This is exactly what is happening in my district. The teachers can't even teach their approved AP course syllabi because they have to slow down for the academically unprepared students that make up most of the class, lest too many fail and jeopardize the graduation rate. Consequently, they end up being something much less than a real AP class. See: https://edexcellence.net/articles/a-failure-to-balance-advanced-placemen...
2
I have taught AP courses to majority minority classes for many years now and I believe that no matter what score they get on the AP exam they benefit immensely from the rigorous curriculum and coursework that they experience in these courses. Of course, I want my students to perform well on the exam and I am constantly revising my teaching to help improve scores. However, perhaps more important to me, are the testimonials I get from students after they get to college and they thank me for pushing them to take my AP course because they all believe that AP courses prepared them for the rigor of collegiate coursework far better than their non-AP courses! I became an AP advocate because I believe that AP courses are of huge benefit to all students but perhaps especially to under represented groups because we don't just want them to GO to college but to STAY in college!!
10
Students should have a vested interest in an Advanced Placement class.
In other words, teachers, counselors and students should get together and
decide whether a student is motivated and maintains a certain level of competence in the subject. Often times, students are placed in an A.P. class
just because they are "nice" kids and not because they are interested
in the subject matter. Many counties use AP courses as some sort of social or academic experiment to raise student awareness of college expectations.
I don't think that these courses and tests were designed for that reason. There should be a correlation between the grade in the course and the grade on the A.P. test.
In other words, teachers, counselors and students should get together and
decide whether a student is motivated and maintains a certain level of competence in the subject. Often times, students are placed in an A.P. class
just because they are "nice" kids and not because they are interested
in the subject matter. Many counties use AP courses as some sort of social or academic experiment to raise student awareness of college expectations.
I don't think that these courses and tests were designed for that reason. There should be a correlation between the grade in the course and the grade on the A.P. test.
3
Extending AP courses so that ALL qualified and capable students, across all wealth, race and ethnicity boundaries, can access them is an important and worthy goal. Pushing unprepared and unmotivated students into them is a harmful farce on all levels.
My own daughter came out of a semi-rural regional high school usually rated mediocre to average and with a mixed but overall lower-middle-class demographic. She was a dedicated student and was ALLOWED to take AP courses on the basis of achievement, not as a gift. She ending up taking 11 of them, doing well enough to at least gain a 3 or 4 in all of them, and somehow got hold of an Ivy League brass ring at a school where almost everyone IS affluent and well below half attended a U.S. public high school. I am thoroughly convinced that it was the determination and ambition shown in her mastery of so many AP courses that got her in there... so, in my view, AP courses CAN be a sort of "great equalizer" that allows kids from less than exclusive backgrounds and neighborhoods to go beyond usual expectations. But if their diligence and capacity are not already "advanced" PRIOR to enrolling in these courses, it's a sad waste of everyone's time and money and I have to believe sometimes even damaging to the participants.
My own daughter came out of a semi-rural regional high school usually rated mediocre to average and with a mixed but overall lower-middle-class demographic. She was a dedicated student and was ALLOWED to take AP courses on the basis of achievement, not as a gift. She ending up taking 11 of them, doing well enough to at least gain a 3 or 4 in all of them, and somehow got hold of an Ivy League brass ring at a school where almost everyone IS affluent and well below half attended a U.S. public high school. I am thoroughly convinced that it was the determination and ambition shown in her mastery of so many AP courses that got her in there... so, in my view, AP courses CAN be a sort of "great equalizer" that allows kids from less than exclusive backgrounds and neighborhoods to go beyond usual expectations. But if their diligence and capacity are not already "advanced" PRIOR to enrolling in these courses, it's a sad waste of everyone's time and money and I have to believe sometimes even damaging to the participants.
24
Great story. And such amazing opportunity for public school students who are not wealthy is denied when AP courses are so 'dumbed down' that most student cannot pass the exam and thus get a head start in college.
Very important distinction here between access to capable students regardless of background, and aggressively filling seats in AP courses with students who are not capable just because of their skin color. The former is just and equitable; the latter is exploitative. Sadly, a lot of school leaders do not seem to recognize the difference!
1
My experience, both with AP classes, and College Board, completely contradict some of the arguments your article presented. As a retired trial lawyer I began a second career as a teacher at Long Branch H.S. in NJ and a professor at Monmouth University. I am also a College Board consultant and teach AP workshops around the country. My H.S. is a typical urban district Title 1 school with a majority/minority population where 78% of the students qualify for free lunch. I teach APUS History, AP Government and AP Economics. Five years ago I began to oversee the AP program and we proudly offer 14 AP classes. Our results have consistently proven that even poor students from disadvantaged backgrounds can not only succeed but excel in AP classes. These students have become fully prepared for college and have gone on to prove themselves successful at the college level. Our AP teachers demand a lot from the students, and year after year the students, for the most part deliver. The key for us is the curriculum. It is a nationwide standard that cannot be altered and thus both the teacher and the student must hold themselves to the effort demanded by the curriculum. Too often urban schools and teachers adopt the belief that their kids "cannot handle more rigorous work" and thus "dumb down" their instruction in order to raise graduation rates. AP classes take the opposite approach and thus insure that all students can have the opportunity to start college successfully.
7
I have been a Photography and Film instructor for the past 27 years. For most of that time I taught AP Studio Art. My experience is quite the opposite of the writer. I have found African American students to be higher achievers than all of my other students, and Hispanic & Asian students to be close behind, with European students taking up the rear. The real problem is not that these students are often underprivilaged (most if not all of my inner city students were), but that they have been disenfranchised by the system. In order to combat this I created a teaching method that promoted Minority Artists, when I showed examples from Art History, I made sure that it was heavy in their favor. When they complained about lack of knowledge about representation in the Art World I challenged them to be a voice for change! If we just go about teaching as if we are only teaching to small town white America, then only those children will progress. We have to accept that there is great Art and contributions being made everywhere. This is empowering and can change young artists minds and lives. My student have gone on to full college scholarships based on the portfolios that they created for my AP class. Many have become profesiional Photographers, Celebrated Muralists, Art Instructors, and Arts Professionals. I owe much of my success as a teacher to the AP system of Art.
9
I teach AP Courses in Illinois, and have the good fortune to be in a pretty privileged school - although our sister schools in my district, which offer the same courses and are taught by my colleagues face more challenges. I understand the concern over the "benefits" of AP - but in my experience AP is an overall positive, and worth an investment. Even many of my students who score below three do report a positive experience in improved confidence and academic skills.
Moreover, in an era when grade inflation appears endemic and in which school officials are increasingly pushing to dump "content" in favor of "skills," the AP program offers the best blend I have seen of rigorous, subject-specific academic content WITH requisite skills described and assessed. To me as a teacher, the standards imposed by adopting an "AP-designated" course (standards which are set by committees of college professors and high school teachers) are a bulwark against further dilution of the curriculum. These courses are designed not to merely make students feel good or enjoy themselves, but to feel a sense of accomplishment for wrestling with difficult intellectual tasks. Not every AP course is for every student, and some students are probably better served by a different, more technical education - but for any who aspire to college at any level, AP is a reasonable certification of measurable success on a nationally-standardized subject-area exam.
Moreover, in an era when grade inflation appears endemic and in which school officials are increasingly pushing to dump "content" in favor of "skills," the AP program offers the best blend I have seen of rigorous, subject-specific academic content WITH requisite skills described and assessed. To me as a teacher, the standards imposed by adopting an "AP-designated" course (standards which are set by committees of college professors and high school teachers) are a bulwark against further dilution of the curriculum. These courses are designed not to merely make students feel good or enjoy themselves, but to feel a sense of accomplishment for wrestling with difficult intellectual tasks. Not every AP course is for every student, and some students are probably better served by a different, more technical education - but for any who aspire to college at any level, AP is a reasonable certification of measurable success on a nationally-standardized subject-area exam.
5
When I began teaching I had no idea what AP was about or why it was beneficial. Now in my 14th year and an AP reader for AP Calculus, I would encourage all teachers, students and parents to embrace the AP system. My students could regurgitate math problems based on steps they had seen on the board done by countless teachers in their education, however, they didn't understand what they were doing and the concepts behind the math until AP. They only knew how to work problems in one direction because they didn't understand what they were doing. Now, with AP they can be given all kinds of different information and work to a successful solution. I have no doubt that my students that take AP are better prepared for college than the ones that do not. This includes my low income students and my minorities. It is a joy to teach AP classes and see students have their moment of clarity when a concept finally clicks! Are all students successful? No. Some students should not be placed in AP classes. However, AP gives students the opportunity to earn college credit at a fraction of the cost and for many this is essential.
4
I taught AP English Literature and Comp and AP Lang and Comp for 15 years. The courses are quite beneficial even to students who don't pass the exams. It gives them experience with the critical reading and writing they need for college. It is neither a waste of time or money despite what some critics say.
2
Shouldn't critical reading and writing be a given in any ELA classroom?
1
Exactly. Why aren't your non-AP high school courses which are supposed to be college prep doing this?
1
The article mentions some schools and/or classes where the majority of students get a 1 on the exam. Since this is the lowest possible score, a 1 is the same score someone would get who never took the course, who knows nothing about the content of the exam, and/or who showed up to take it, signed his name, and fell asleep. Maybe they learned something else in the course, but they didn't learn the AP curriculum. Yet surely most of these kids are getting credits for AP courses on their transcripts, probably with high grades. In my own district, the mode exam score is a 1, yet the mode course grade is an A. The high grades are given, irrespective of learning, in order to incentivize students continuing to enroll in the program. This is a major integrity problem for the College Board, and I don't see they have anything in place to address it.
6
100%. It is a total racket and I can't believe anybody would dispute that.
1
Our AP program started out timidly but gained enthusiasm as our school built on solid gains and a marked change in Greene’s climate. Now, in a school of only 435 students, we offer six courses that allow students to connect with others who share their hopes for the future. In addition they've gained new insight about the commitment and resilience it takes to succeed in AP courses. After all, we're a team.
Not too long ago, our high school, located in Midtown Manhattan, struggled to create a college preparatory climate. The school was designed to help students succeed who had consistently struggled in school. As a result AP courses were not on anyone’s radar. Today, advanced placement enrollment at Maxine Greene High School has risen dramatically. But even more importantly, the buzz in the hallways is not only about Regents passing rates but more about a sense of a challenging each other to take AP courses. This has added a new richness to these students’ high school experience.
Even though students’ scores have not risen as dramatically this change in culture is an extremely powerful force. College-readiness research provides a compelling argument for expanding advanced placement enrollment opportunities for all students. In all of our AP courses we create a family atmosphere and have regular class meetings to support each other.
Not too long ago, our high school, located in Midtown Manhattan, struggled to create a college preparatory climate. The school was designed to help students succeed who had consistently struggled in school. As a result AP courses were not on anyone’s radar. Today, advanced placement enrollment at Maxine Greene High School has risen dramatically. But even more importantly, the buzz in the hallways is not only about Regents passing rates but more about a sense of a challenging each other to take AP courses. This has added a new richness to these students’ high school experience.
Even though students’ scores have not risen as dramatically this change in culture is an extremely powerful force. College-readiness research provides a compelling argument for expanding advanced placement enrollment opportunities for all students. In all of our AP courses we create a family atmosphere and have regular class meetings to support each other.
8
Prior to my taking over Calculus AB, no one had ever passed the rigorous exam at the intercity, below grade level, minority high school where I taught in Columbus. Suburban schools had double periods, I had 43 minutes with them, another five classes, homeroom and duty period. They weren't making it easy. But giving my kids summer work, making them come in early and believing in them, I was able to get half of them to pass the test. Could it be the cake with a calculus problem that they had to solve before they ate? The ones that failed the test invariably came back and told me how invaluable the class was in getting them through their college classes. So even the "failures" were "winners". And one of them got a 5 on the harder BC exam.
15
Congratulations! Perhaps schools with poorly prepared students and increased access to AP classes should be paired with master teachers like yourself to teach the teachers how to best prepare their students for the exam. I wonder whether it is easier to close the gap in Calculus than in the humanities, where an inability to read or write anywhere near grade level could make success harder than a deficit in math knowledge.
While I think it is unfair to attribute greed and profit motives to the College Board, there are some ways they contribute, inadvertently or no, to the misuse of AP classes by schools.
1) Weak regulations and quality control measures - When a school or district consistently gets awful scores year after year, without any signs of progress, what action does the CB take? Some districts/schools teach classes that are AP in name only, greatly lowering the AP standards to accommodate the large numbers of students who are unprepared for college level work. How does AP protect the integrity of its name from such schools?
2) The use of misleading info to conceal the consequences of expansion - The main metric the CB uses to report and rank the performance of states on AP exams is the "Equity and Excellence" index, which is the % of all high school graduates who passed one AP exam. The denominator includes students who never took an AP course, and it excludes failed exams! The CB has used this metric to claim publicly that performance is increasing as participation increases. Yet it is virtually guaranteed to increase so long as more students take exams.
I've also seen official CB material that promotes the idea that students 'benefit' from an AP course even if they score a 1 or 2 on the exam. This is based on dubious research studies whose conclusions are ambivalent at best. Yet it conveys the idea to local authorities that exam performance matters little.
1) Weak regulations and quality control measures - When a school or district consistently gets awful scores year after year, without any signs of progress, what action does the CB take? Some districts/schools teach classes that are AP in name only, greatly lowering the AP standards to accommodate the large numbers of students who are unprepared for college level work. How does AP protect the integrity of its name from such schools?
2) The use of misleading info to conceal the consequences of expansion - The main metric the CB uses to report and rank the performance of states on AP exams is the "Equity and Excellence" index, which is the % of all high school graduates who passed one AP exam. The denominator includes students who never took an AP course, and it excludes failed exams! The CB has used this metric to claim publicly that performance is increasing as participation increases. Yet it is virtually guaranteed to increase so long as more students take exams.
I've also seen official CB material that promotes the idea that students 'benefit' from an AP course even if they score a 1 or 2 on the exam. This is based on dubious research studies whose conclusions are ambivalent at best. Yet it conveys the idea to local authorities that exam performance matters little.
3
According to the author, success stories of AP in these low income schools are "anomalous." Considering her biggest problem with demonstrating the success of AP in lower income schools is the lack of data of student performance or their ability to get into college, where is the data that substantiates this claim? I do not believe Ms. Tugend called every teacher of AP All In/AP for All to ask for their opinions on the success of the program in their schools. Teachers around the country advocate for AP for All and AP All In, for the positive experience it brings their students and their schools, but apparently, we are few and far between. I can share my positive experiences, about how my students are some of the only at my school to go to four year schools, how our students work endlessly to better themselves and achieve this level of learning, and the pride they feel in getting 3s, 4s, and 5s. (PT 2)
4
From the article: "If students score a 3 or better on a 5-point scale, they typically receive college credit."
At most elite private colleges, this is not correct. Students scoring a 4 or 5 on multiple high-school AP exams may gain an admissions edge over those with no AP credit and may have entry-level prerequisites waived, but they usually get *no* college credit per university policy. Why? Almost all students at these schools have AP credits, and the colleges want their tuition dollars.
At most elite private colleges, this is not correct. Students scoring a 4 or 5 on multiple high-school AP exams may gain an admissions edge over those with no AP credit and may have entry-level prerequisites waived, but they usually get *no* college credit per university policy. Why? Almost all students at these schools have AP credits, and the colleges want their tuition dollars.
3
I for one was appalled at the underlying racism implied here. I have been a teacher in New York City for 20 years. For the past 10 I've been a fierce advocate for Advanced Placement course work in schools that are underserved and full of minority students. I have created a flourishing community of students that attend my class in American History and Government for two years. Many of these students have grown in innumerable ways academically as way as socially. Many of my students are earning 2's and 3's on their AP exams. However, that is not the largest postive the AP program provides at my High School. The entire culture of our school has changed through the offering of classes. The quality of instruction has improved through teacher training. And most beautifully students now ask "What do I need to do to get into the AP Program.?" These events would have never happened without the Expansion of AP. I for one am highly encouraged by the culture of success that is expanding. That is a result of the AP expansion program. When opportunities are provided growth happens. Empower the Youth. Empower the Future, Now!
7
AP is more than just a class. It is a program.
As an AP teacher in metro-Atlanta who has worked in several different counties, I have seen that despite their economic, ethnic, and academic differences, the one thing that helps is to have teachers who have received AP training or who have experience serving as an AP reader.
AP teachers want their students to be successful on AP tests, but what is more important many times, is to prepare students to be college ready. As an AP Spanish teacher I have collaborated numerous times with other AP teachers in different disciplines to either review content or present skills such as writing persuasive essays.
My class often provides that first opportunity for Hispanic students to take an AP class so it is very important that I teach them not just skills to improve their Spanish language ability but also reading, writing and thinking skills that will help them in other subjects. Just recently I had a student ask what the word dormant meant. After they made the link to the Spanish word dormir, to sleep, they understood. It is skills like this that will help students in the future. Sometimes as AP teachers we have to celebrate our scores of 1 and 2. Building an AP program that will help highs school students be successful is what is important and not the test.
As an AP teacher in metro-Atlanta who has worked in several different counties, I have seen that despite their economic, ethnic, and academic differences, the one thing that helps is to have teachers who have received AP training or who have experience serving as an AP reader.
AP teachers want their students to be successful on AP tests, but what is more important many times, is to prepare students to be college ready. As an AP Spanish teacher I have collaborated numerous times with other AP teachers in different disciplines to either review content or present skills such as writing persuasive essays.
My class often provides that first opportunity for Hispanic students to take an AP class so it is very important that I teach them not just skills to improve their Spanish language ability but also reading, writing and thinking skills that will help them in other subjects. Just recently I had a student ask what the word dormant meant. After they made the link to the Spanish word dormir, to sleep, they understood. It is skills like this that will help students in the future. Sometimes as AP teachers we have to celebrate our scores of 1 and 2. Building an AP program that will help highs school students be successful is what is important and not the test.
4
Isn't the purpose of regular high school level classes also to prepare kids to be 'college ready'? If this is all that your AP program is achieving, then what's happening to the non-AP kids? Do they not get a college prep education?
2
Of course those that want to do so are receiving a college prep education and enrolling in honors, AP or regular level courses. Others perhaps are taking vocational courses and some will take the regular level course in order to just earn their HS diploma and not attend a post-secondary institution.
There is little evidence of what is learned in an AP course but it enjoys a prestige beyond its merits. Its syllabus is overstuffed with topics. Thus there is no time for students to develop conceptual understanding and its mostly taught by the ineffective method of lecturing. The AP course is fundamentally more directed at the memorizing answers and less to goal of building functional knowledge.
Unfortunately, the AP is held in regard. Schools claim superiority over other schools by the number of AP courses offered. Colleges use it as a simplistic measurement of academic preparation and over value it as an admission criterion. It ruinously creates an educational system of “have” and “have not” by increasing division and inequality.
The AP course does not benefit the overall mission of education but it is a boon to the profits of the testing industry.
Unfortunately, the AP is held in regard. Schools claim superiority over other schools by the number of AP courses offered. Colleges use it as a simplistic measurement of academic preparation and over value it as an admission criterion. It ruinously creates an educational system of “have” and “have not” by increasing division and inequality.
The AP course does not benefit the overall mission of education but it is a boon to the profits of the testing industry.
1
What you just said is untrue. I knew/know few highs school AP teachers who do much lecturing. That is still true in college,however.
The whole educational system is both perpetually budgeted and funded for testing to prove its pudding: state testing, benchmark testing, end of course exams, you name it, our kids are tested to death: BUT, only ONE test is lighting that tunnel to their outcome- going to college! not just graduating high school, but seeing a real future in academics that may result in tuition savings and eliminate remedial education, and make up for watered down junior college classes that are remedial to high school, not necessarily college: GO AP!! and thank god it has rescued my students from the abysmally low standards of state testing required for state funding and that it rescued THIS EDUCATOR from that same pit. AP has STANDARDS!. Even if they do not pass the rigor of an exam, students get a real feel for the real world of academics and reality of what college will demand of them. Even a 70 in my AP Language or AP Lit courses is an indicator that relate a student's success at being a student! Yes. the WORK ETHIC is what is taught as much as the concepts and skills. AP is an overarching THEME in our academic world that we hope for our kids to inherit from us! It will develop the WHOLE student beyond the test scores and give them that CHANCE to get real with what investment in college will cost them: sweat and tears, the jacked up tuition costs will get their blood!
Oh incidentally, this article is very inaccurate and unfair to our students and our AP educators!
Oh incidentally, this article is very inaccurate and unfair to our students and our AP educators!
Our school, suburban and high-achieving, encourages all students to take AP classes- and there seem to be many underprepared students following this advice. This results in the teachers, who are held accountable for their students' passing rates, loading up on the workload, essentially- tremendous expectations for writing, reading, notes which must be formatted exactly as the teacher wants and handed in, etc. For students who are truly prepared for and expecting a college-level experience, this is miserable. The busy work and unneccessary (for some) emphasis on basics makes the workload mind-numbing and intolerable, and for kids who take several AP classes at once, it is a nightmare. But as the article cites, there is a study that any exposure to AP classes, regardless of the outcome of the exam, improves a student's success in college. So everyone is herded into these classes, whether appropriate or not, and then the class material and expectations must be adjusted downward to compensate.
A further incentive for schools to push AP is that many of the ridiculous high school ranking lists emohasize how many students take AP classes- but disregard how those students do. The more kids that have access, the higher the school ranking.
A further incentive for schools to push AP is that many of the ridiculous high school ranking lists emohasize how many students take AP classes- but disregard how those students do. The more kids that have access, the higher the school ranking.
1
Where does the article cite that any exposure is beneficial? Some are irrationally claiming this, but this claim is unsubstantiated. When the class expectations are adjusted downward, the class is no longer a real AP class, and it is hard to see then how anyone 'benefits'. Amen about the ridiculous rankings that only reward quantity.
AP is our last hope for rigor in secondary schools, public and private. The College Board backs up their equity and access statement with funding and opportunities for all students to be successful. Likewise, CB offers excellent teacher training, which is on-going. High school curricula are so watered down; AP is not just about an exam! It is a program; it is a philosophy dedicated to making students college ready. As a 30-year AP Spanish teacher, I have seen countless underrepresented minority students excel in AP courses. I teach workshops for teachers across the country and internationally. Hats off to those teachers who are still holding students accountable and providing them with a quality educational experience. And, hats off to students who are willing to challenge themselves instead of just waiting out their time to get out of high school. AP for all...It's not just an exam!
28
If you really allow AP for all, the courses will inevitably become less rigorous, and thus you will lose what it is you love about AP in the first place.
4
Wouldn't your skills be better-used teaching average students to do better?
Possibly inspired by their college bound peers in the same class room?
Possibly inspired by their college bound peers in the same class room?
I am a college professor. When I work summer advising, I meet many students who have done well enough on the AP exams. They don't stand out as especially smart or well-prepared. But students who are the products of the International Baccalaurate (IB) program are truly impressive: smart, intellectually engaged, and passionate about learning. I remember a student from one of the poorest neighborhoods in Chicago who was the product of an IB program and was eager to engage me in an extended and intelligent conversation about ambition in Macbeth. IB programs truly have the ability to change the lives of all motivated students!
1
Ms. Tugend has done a great job at explaining the dilemma that faces both schools and the AP program. I think it's disingenuous on the part of some who attribute motivation to the College Board about expansion of the AP program. It's hard to argue the success of the program for some students. And, yes it's hard to understand the program being used as a political football in the amenities wars that schools become involved in from time to time.
I was principal at two different Catholic high schools for 24 years total, and in both we had a robust AP program that served the needs of our most talented students. I had a mother ask me (when her son was only in the 8th grade) what it took to get into an AP class at our school. I responded, glibly I admit, that he needed an AP brain. What I meant, and what you can see in this article, is that the student needs to complete some serious preparation prior to enrolling in such a class if there is to be a good chance at success.
It is hard to see, given just the few examples Ms. Tugend provides, how high schools with success rates that are cited can continue to allocate resources in this fashion. Proper preparation for an AP class begins long before enrollment in the class and may extend as far back as 7th grade in terms of curricular choices and development of an appropriate work ethic. Exposure to these classes may be beneficial, but is it as beneficial as better training in writing and reading and computing?
I was principal at two different Catholic high schools for 24 years total, and in both we had a robust AP program that served the needs of our most talented students. I had a mother ask me (when her son was only in the 8th grade) what it took to get into an AP class at our school. I responded, glibly I admit, that he needed an AP brain. What I meant, and what you can see in this article, is that the student needs to complete some serious preparation prior to enrolling in such a class if there is to be a good chance at success.
It is hard to see, given just the few examples Ms. Tugend provides, how high schools with success rates that are cited can continue to allocate resources in this fashion. Proper preparation for an AP class begins long before enrollment in the class and may extend as far back as 7th grade in terms of curricular choices and development of an appropriate work ethic. Exposure to these classes may be beneficial, but is it as beneficial as better training in writing and reading and computing?
18
For sure at my son's high school the administration is using the AP classes to game the system ny helping underperforming students improve their grade average and make the overall standing is the school appear better than it is. I was appalled at the principal's glorious picture of the "success" of the AP program and how so many students participate and pass with an A. But then gave the flimsiest array of excuses about why so few take the test and why less than 10% who do, pass the test.
Something is sorely awry here; either these classes are being dumbed-down (like most of education) because students who really aren't capable are filling the seats and/or teachers aren't getting the training needed to properly teach the material. I suspect it's largely the former.
As for the fee, yes this is another land-grab for corporate education companies as taxpayers once again foot the bill for the majority of students who take the test.
For sure a couple of ways way to stop the rapid dilution of AP classes is to 1. get rid of the 5.0 grading system of AP classes, or getting that highly valuable 5.0 A on,y if the student passes the AP exam and maybe start making students take an entrance exam to demonstrate their ability and commitment to the coursework.
Something is sorely awry here; either these classes are being dumbed-down (like most of education) because students who really aren't capable are filling the seats and/or teachers aren't getting the training needed to properly teach the material. I suspect it's largely the former.
As for the fee, yes this is another land-grab for corporate education companies as taxpayers once again foot the bill for the majority of students who take the test.
For sure a couple of ways way to stop the rapid dilution of AP classes is to 1. get rid of the 5.0 grading system of AP classes, or getting that highly valuable 5.0 A on,y if the student passes the AP exam and maybe start making students take an entrance exam to demonstrate their ability and commitment to the coursework.
18
My experience bears out the these of this article - that over-extending AP classes to unprepared students isn't fruitful.
Last year I attended a board meeting of a charter school in my community. 90% of the students are low income. It was reported that only one student in the 15 year history of the school had ever gotten more than a 1 on the AP Calculus AB exam. The school leadership felt that it was important for students to be "exposed" to college level work. No one batted an eye! It was assumed that the students would perform poorly just because they are poor, but it was also assumed that offering AP classes is evidence of a "world class" education (the results be damned).
I'm also familiar with the AP results at a rural school in northern New England with a mixed income population and a poor record of college success. The English AP teacher thinks that a 3 is an excellent score and has conveyed that to her students (few of whom achieve a 3). Some of those students get an inflated view of their college prospects and are later shocked at their poor admissions results.
In my opinion, schools should only AP classes only if they have a highly qualified teacher and four or more students with a likelihood of getting a 3 or higher.
Last year I attended a board meeting of a charter school in my community. 90% of the students are low income. It was reported that only one student in the 15 year history of the school had ever gotten more than a 1 on the AP Calculus AB exam. The school leadership felt that it was important for students to be "exposed" to college level work. No one batted an eye! It was assumed that the students would perform poorly just because they are poor, but it was also assumed that offering AP classes is evidence of a "world class" education (the results be damned).
I'm also familiar with the AP results at a rural school in northern New England with a mixed income population and a poor record of college success. The English AP teacher thinks that a 3 is an excellent score and has conveyed that to her students (few of whom achieve a 3). Some of those students get an inflated view of their college prospects and are later shocked at their poor admissions results.
In my opinion, schools should only AP classes only if they have a highly qualified teacher and four or more students with a likelihood of getting a 3 or higher.
38
One often hears from 'AP for all' advocates that mere 'exposure' to higher level, challenging curriculum is beneficial to students. Baloney. If the curriculum is slightly above one's level, then perhaps one will rise to the occasion and benefit from the challenge. But if it is substantially higher, learning is impossible and students will be overwhelmed. Do colleges believe that students who have not learned even freshman Physics would benefit from a senior level or graduate Physics course just because it is harder? No! This would be a complete waste of time and resources because they wouldn't and couldn't understand it (and would slow the higher level students down if they had to be accommodated).
34
However, if you look at this is a longer term, say five years as my school and program has, the picture becomes much different. offering the courses has changed the entire culture of our school. It has changed the trajectory of many of my students. it requires a lot of teacher support but it is NOT NOE NEVER WILL BE A WASTE OF RESOURCES.
2
In my state, the highest-performing high school in the state has about half the kids taking AP classes. The charter schools the next city over have over 80% taking AP courses. Something's amiss.
1
I led a private school for 19 years. When we abandoned the AP nonsense, early in my tenure, college admissions did not suffer and the kids didn't suffer either. Every purported benefit of the AP curriculum can be achieved without being complicit in the stress and meaningless churning that AP courses create.
Those who claim this is "not about the money" are fundamentally dishonest. Of course it's about the money.
The idea that students, particularly the least advantaged students, benefit from hitting their heads against the AP wall is absurd. They, and all students, need patience, love, inspiration, support and real, deep learning. They don't need to view learning as preparing for an exam, jumping over a bar, winning a competition, getting a score or - worst of all - seeing failing as a perverse virtue.
The AP program is not about education and learning. It is just part of a system designed to sort and stratify children rather than provide the best opportunities for all.
Those who claim this is "not about the money" are fundamentally dishonest. Of course it's about the money.
The idea that students, particularly the least advantaged students, benefit from hitting their heads against the AP wall is absurd. They, and all students, need patience, love, inspiration, support and real, deep learning. They don't need to view learning as preparing for an exam, jumping over a bar, winning a competition, getting a score or - worst of all - seeing failing as a perverse virtue.
The AP program is not about education and learning. It is just part of a system designed to sort and stratify children rather than provide the best opportunities for all.
70
Too true. Think about how many systems are in place to sort and stratify, identify and measure, and then consider why they are in place; why have an SAT, or an ACT (kids often take both) and APs or IBs, and state tests, and the Junior Varsity versions of all these, the ASPIRE and EXPLORE and PSAT? What do they tell us and is it fundamentally more true or accurate than a grade or comment provided by a teacher or counselor or coach? The investment of time, money and emotion by all the participants (students, parents, teachers, administrators, etc) does not provide an appropriate or meaningful return. We have allowed good scores on these external "measures" to become the thing, instead of students' happiness, passion for learning, or sense of authentic accomplishment. As a result, we chase the score, over-indulge in testing, and ultimately destroy real learning that should be marked more by a willingness to fail and try again than a single good or bad test session in May.
I'm not surprised by your findings. My daughter is a senior and I have an upfront view of AP classes and I am not impressed. It really is a question of volume over substance. Fortunately, my daughter can process it all successfully, but I am not convinced she is really learning anything of value.
1
The AP tests themselves are no-nonsense and comprehensive. They are designed to"bring together" course material over a year's time. When I taught AP Lit and Comp for eighteen years and graded that subject area test for the College Board, I learned how truly challenging and fair and interesting the material and tests are. What a fabulous experience for high school students -- to pull together, analyze, ponder, organize, and write persuasively about English literature and language during a test. When many high school students in Colorado end the year with a movie, or course evaluation, or even skipping the last days of school altogether because of an attendance policy that rewards the student for perfect or near perfect attendance, a final comprehensive subject area exam is a wonderful thinking opportunity. Writing clear, persuasive and insightful essays under the clock is a valid and fair way to test students. I have a high regard for the AP program and the educators who work so diligently with students in the classroom and out.
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Do you think the program has the same effects for students who begin the school 1,2, or more years below grade level? Can they really perform high level analysis on texts they can't read?
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It was hard to concentrate on the rest of the article after the statement that 76% graduate but only 1% are at grade level in math and only 4% in English. What are their HS diplomas worth? How can they handle any AP class?
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Indeed! Out of a Woodson 600 student population, only six meet national math standards and 24 meet national reading standards. And in Fuchs's AP math class (number of students unstated) only "five or six" students read at grade level and usually only "one or two" pass the the AP math exam. Would not money be better directed to improving the performance of the 76% of the Woodson "graduates" and the other students who are below grade level?
No mention here of the International Baccalaureate (IB) program which by most accounts is considerably more successful in delivering a high quality eduction to the students who partiipate in it. It is at least as rigorous as AP but it adds elements that broaden a student's ability to think (Theory of Knowledge), to relate one's studies to the real world (Creativity, Action and Service), and to write cogently (Extended Essay which amounts to a college level thesis).
Some school districts around the country start IB education in elementary school. This makes a ton of sense because from day one students are exposed a first class education rather than having to play catch-up when reaching high school. Some colleges allow successful IB students to skip their freshman year (that's a big chunk of money saved) and/or test out of required entry level courses (foreign language, writing, math).
Some school districts around the country start IB education in elementary school. This makes a ton of sense because from day one students are exposed a first class education rather than having to play catch-up when reaching high school. Some colleges allow successful IB students to skip their freshman year (that's a big chunk of money saved) and/or test out of required entry level courses (foreign language, writing, math).
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It's worth noting that the passing rates on IB exams are around 80 or so % while the AP passing rate is under 60%. Some might hastily conclude that AP exams then are more rigorous. I don't think so. The difference, I think, is quality due to do stricter access and smaller numbers. IB is growing, but not rapidly and in many cases recklessly like AP.
11
IB is not offerred in as many places and I don't think as many students evensit for exams. My experience with IB is that it is more touchy feely than riigorous.
Second year IB student here, and I would agree that IB tends to be better at ensuring that students don't fail (and it does not have the same sort of grade inflation that AP does - a B corresponds to a 6 out of 7 on the IB exam, which is an incredibly respectable score - thus, not all students are desolate if they don't get As). This is partly because each IB class spans over two years and is reliant not just on the tests but also on papers, projects and presentations that are graded by the school or by an outside examiner.
However, I would not recommend IB as a replacement for AP if the root of the problem is insufficient preparation for an advanced program. IB relies heavily on reading and writing skills (the humanities tests are entirely essay based), and kids who can't read at grade level would not do any better in the IB. It's also much harder to implement in schools, because the certifications are a lot more rigorous and the exams more strict. Further, I'm not sure what your experience is with college credits but that has not been the case for many of my school's graduates. Colleges tend to be more strict when it comes to IB scores, and it's rather unlikely you'll receive credit unless you do extremely well.
However, I would not recommend IB as a replacement for AP if the root of the problem is insufficient preparation for an advanced program. IB relies heavily on reading and writing skills (the humanities tests are entirely essay based), and kids who can't read at grade level would not do any better in the IB. It's also much harder to implement in schools, because the certifications are a lot more rigorous and the exams more strict. Further, I'm not sure what your experience is with college credits but that has not been the case for many of my school's graduates. Colleges tend to be more strict when it comes to IB scores, and it's rather unlikely you'll receive credit unless you do extremely well.