this action by the mayor, in my opinion, leads me to conclude that he should not be reelected and had lost my vote in the primary next week.
9
Unions have too much power. $150,000,000 a year to pay abject failures not to teach? Union rules make it impossible to fire them? That is completely unacceptable. It's extortion.
16
The DOE is a disorganized, flawed system. The perception that "New York's bad teachers are back on the job" is inaccurate and perpetuates a stigma against hiring teachers in the reserve pool. I anticipate an increase in unsatisfactory evaluations given by administrators who do not want to hire these teachers because they are too expensive and they can have a less senior teacher for less cost. While there are teachers in the pool who are deservedly not teaching, there are others who are unjustly there and not being hired because they are considered "bad teachers" by virtue of being in the ATR pool. Principals like the writer are clearly biased against hiring the ATR pool teachers yet complain that they are complacent.
16
Check the age of those teachers. In Los Angeles most of the teachers placed on discipline lists are the most senior teachers. In Los Angeles it is about dumping older teachers: teachers with greater seniority and higher pay. The principals are rewarded for saving money on their payrolls. The unions do not defend the teachers, perhaps because one teacher is as good as another for paying dues, perhaps because the unions are unwilling to spend money on lawyers.
18
Parents should not be told what to do by a former official of the NYC Dept of Education who jumped ship to work for the Walton Family Foundation that is spending $1B to propagate charter schools.
Public Schools are one of the most important democratic institutions in America. Public Schools are under assault by special interests and their paid stooges.
Public School funding is a huge pie and Corporate America's long view is to own all of it. Send your new employer's self-serving admonishment back with an "F", Marc Steinberg. Democratic institutions will not be undermined by you, Betsy DeVos, or by her brother Erik Prince.
Public Schools are one of the most important democratic institutions in America. Public Schools are under assault by special interests and their paid stooges.
Public School funding is a huge pie and Corporate America's long view is to own all of it. Send your new employer's self-serving admonishment back with an "F", Marc Steinberg. Democratic institutions will not be undermined by you, Betsy DeVos, or by her brother Erik Prince.
30
...and yet, he is recommended by the New York Times!!! Terrible Mayor. Dishonest, Corrupt and in the pockets of too many people to get votes. He will bring back the New York of the 70's and 80's! Mark my word. All the moochers know they have a friend at Gracie Mansion. Can Bloomberg run again for Mayor? If not, why not?
10
How can the Times endorse this Mayor?
13
What else is new? This is the age of Trumpolini, and everything normal is being stood on its head. Every incompetent, political hack, such as the president's cabinet or de Blasio, has risen in every sector, and the country is on a race to find out who can be the most stupid, cruel, ignorant wanna-be leader imagined. Go back to the period of the great 19th century American oligarchs such as John D. Rockefeller and J. P. Morgan and understand what's coming. The rule of law be damned! Let the (our) market decide! Trump is just a shadow of those men, nor does he have the brains or intellect to engage in the monopolistic criminality of those giants. But he is opening the door to a new kind of destructive normal those men would have admired if not cheered on. If the electorate doesn't get wise soon, their great American middle class will be a figment of people's imagination and memory. Making America great again really means making it great for the oligarchs alone. Are we such fools?
3
I think that unions are good things. Strong unions made the American middle class what it was in the 1950s and 1960s. The breaking of unions led to the wage stagnation, loss of benefits, and complete job insecurity that Americans face today.
That said, unions too often fight for workers who shouldn't be fought for -- at least, not that much: slackers at the MTA, mail hoarders at the United States Postal Service, sadists in the NYPD, incompetents at the Board of Education. If a person doesn't do his job the way it should be done, and there's a solid, honest paper trail to that effect, he needs to be fired.
A teacher who is bad is "evil," according to author Tillie Olsen in her story "I Stand Here Ironing." I believe it.
That said, unions too often fight for workers who shouldn't be fought for -- at least, not that much: slackers at the MTA, mail hoarders at the United States Postal Service, sadists in the NYPD, incompetents at the Board of Education. If a person doesn't do his job the way it should be done, and there's a solid, honest paper trail to that effect, he needs to be fired.
A teacher who is bad is "evil," according to author Tillie Olsen in her story "I Stand Here Ironing." I believe it.
12
I am a member of a Union and I get embarrassed when I hear stories like this. This, in a nutshell, is why the general public is stereotyping every Union activity in politics.
8
Of course, like every business and institution, there are some bad apples and poor performers. But the real problem is the weak and ineffectual administrators who fail to build proper cases in order to get rid of them.
12
Of course there are some bad teachers just like there are bad pediatricians, bad parents, bad babysitters, and bad coaches. But most are good. Only in a system as large as NYC does a whole group of theoretically bad teachers collect. And only in a system as large and diverse as NYC do the schools in the poorest districts wind up with those teachers that we think are not good enough. That said, NYC also has MANY good teachers who have been thrown away through no fault of their own caused through cultural conflict with admins. I taught in a Bronx PS, Fordham certified, a cum laude grad. Sadly, I irritated the principal. I never did find out why but should have been immediately suspicious upon learning that my predecessor had walked out. As a career-changer in my mid forties I didn't let the moss grow under my feet, quit, earned 2 M.S. degrees, and had a very successful career in private schools. So I guess maybe some of these teachers are not so bad. Maybe principals need better training. Maybe the teachers need the same level of respect as pediatricians, and children who live in poverty are valued the same as kids who live on the upper west side. Maybe their families should be cared for and about. Free lunch is a start. How about breakfast and dinner? Unions like the teachers' are essential and created the middle class in this country. Maybe even more money should be poured into the system. Come on NYC, step up and put your money where your mouth is.
13
There isn't a collection of bad pediatricians somewhere that taxpayers are paying not to practice pediatric medicine.
12
What I really can't stand hearing is that it is impossible, or virtually impossible to fire teachers in NYC, or something of the like. This is 100% untrue. It is totally possible to fire a bad teacher. Teachers just have a right to due process. This means that teachers can only be fired for cause. One cause for which teachers can be fired is for being a bad teacher - being rated ineffective 2 years in a row. Get a bad rating one year, and the teacher is given coaching and support to make them better. After the second year, they are terminated. In the old days, this was disciplinary charge of "incompetence." It was never impossible, in fact, it has always been quite easy to fire teachers. You just had to have a good reason to do it, such as they were a bad teacher.
17
Educational Foundation sponsored by Walmart? Say no more
15
Before giving yet more space to a champion of corporate "education reform," perhaps the Times op Ed page editors should have read elsewhere in the paper. An online piece apparently slated for the Times magazine details the sad story of school privatization in Michigan, where educational performance has plummeted after public schools were replaced with charter schools. I'm sure the author of this column would heartily approve with the wholesale firing of unionized teachers and the breaking of their contracts, but the beneficiaries in Michigan have been education companies, not students.
No doubt there are good number of incompetent teachers in a school system the size of New York, but having a Walton Foundation flack assess the problem is like the Times hiring Donald Trump as Public Editor.
No doubt there are good number of incompetent teachers in a school system the size of New York, but having a Walton Foundation flack assess the problem is like the Times hiring Donald Trump as Public Editor.
25
UNBELIEVABLE. Please list all the perks and benefits that go along with the job of NYC schoolteacher.
7
Notice how the author doesnt lecture the teacher's union for putting NYC In a bad spot by making NYC keep bad teachers. $150 million money well spent by keeping them away from students? The author has no credibility after that statement. $150 million wasted more like it.
5
Simple math shows that if those "approximately 800 teachers" are getting 150 million not to teach, they're earning a staggering amount of money.
Simple math also dictates that 800 allegedly poor teachers spread over 1700 schools is only the tip of the iceberg of NYC school district's problems.
Simple math also dictates that 800 allegedly poor teachers spread over 1700 schools is only the tip of the iceberg of NYC school district's problems.
6
These teachers are not the "dregs". Many of them are long term employees with higher salaries. No principal wants to hire them no matter how good they are. because they have the budgets(never was a good idea to begin with). You really have to get to know this job. I am a retired NYC teacher and met many teachers from the ATR. They were just fine. Follow the money please. This was created when our union allowed the "open market" under Bloomberg. It has absolutely nothing to do with their perceived incompetence. It's the money stupid.
29
Shame on Mayor Deblasio. This is an example of gross negligence. Rather than relying on competence, leaders like him go by vote bank. $150 million waste is a crime and the mayor is allowing that to remain in power. How about the future of our nation? Our children have the right to get the best education they deserve. Many other cities under democratic leadership learned their lesson and they have reorganized schools for the sake of our future. It is a travesty that the Mayor of New York has no respect for the citizens he is supposed to serve. Pathetic leaders like him bring bad name for the Democrats.
6
Many of those teachers in the ATR pool are not bad teachers. Most of those senior teachers were placed there because of school closings, or principals needing to lower there expenditures. Senior teachers are paid more than their younger counterparts. I've worked in both "at risk" and "good performing" schools where principals have hired, through manipulation of their
"leadership group", less qualified candidates who serve to aid them politically. I am surprised that the NY Times, who has on lesser occasions reported on this, allow such biased articles as this to pass unchallenged. Termination of employment is possible with "proof" of incompetence.
"leadership group", less qualified candidates who serve to aid them politically. I am surprised that the NY Times, who has on lesser occasions reported on this, allow such biased articles as this to pass unchallenged. Termination of employment is possible with "proof" of incompetence.
22
Linda, this was an opinion piece, not a news article, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it may be.
3
Agreed. But the Times coverage of this matter heavily favors trashing the Union and teachers.
10
When a man that works for a company trying to defund public schools and fund charter schools writes an article about the evils of public schools, is it a pretty clear conflict?
21
Actually, it isn't the union's responsibility to remove problematic employees. That is the job of management. Write them up, document their failures and make your case for dismissal. Perhaps if Mr. Sternberg did his job as Principal, the City would not be stuck with poor performers. Favorite lazy management mantra: "Poor us, it's the union's fault." Eye roll, groan, yawn.
22
Did you ever hear about collective bargaining rules that prevent incompetent teachers being fired?
7
public school teachers and the UFT cannot stand competition. if they could compete parents would not be beating the doors down to send their children to charter schools.
6
Police departments and their union cannot stand competition. If they could compete people would be beating the doors down to be policed by alternatives.
3
This Title I New York City teacher is so very TIRED of the same narrative put forth about the members of the UFT, most particularly the ATR pool. Clearly, you all (the editorial staff, etc) sit on the same boards and your children attend the same private schools. Folks need to read the wonderful investigative article written about the charter school disaster in Michigan. Is that really what Mr. Sternberg wants for NYC's most vulnerable populations? Yes, it is, because then my students might be able to compete with his kids.
13
Nearly 20% have poor ratings means that more than 80% do NOT have poor ratings. One third had "had faced disciplinary or legal charges".. Wat were the outcomes of these charges Mr Former Principal? Were they all found guilty? You actually imply that they are guilty for having faced charges, not for having been guilty of them.
I am just guessing that you never taught history or social studies.
There is no small amount of politics in the system. If ever a letter sounded political - yours is one of them. Contracts such as the one the union has with the city are there to see that politics do not throw teachers out of jobs. Yes, some slackers take advantage of that. Less bad than subjecting all the teachers to politics of fear and retribution.
Your numbers, even if accurate, are too garbled with poor logic as well as politics to be of any meaningful and appropriate good use. I suggest that the school system use those of the pool who are good and cease looking for reasons enabling them to tar the good ones with dubious claims, numbers, morals and false logic. Innocent until proven guilty Mr Principal.
I am just guessing that you never taught history or social studies.
There is no small amount of politics in the system. If ever a letter sounded political - yours is one of them. Contracts such as the one the union has with the city are there to see that politics do not throw teachers out of jobs. Yes, some slackers take advantage of that. Less bad than subjecting all the teachers to politics of fear and retribution.
Your numbers, even if accurate, are too garbled with poor logic as well as politics to be of any meaningful and appropriate good use. I suggest that the school system use those of the pool who are good and cease looking for reasons enabling them to tar the good ones with dubious claims, numbers, morals and false logic. Innocent until proven guilty Mr Principal.
10
I am pro-union, but when they are wrong, they are wrong.
By carving out a safe harbor for unacceptable performance for members, they are shaking down the citizens.
The union is a rational actor, it is getting the most it can http://www.uft.org/our-rights/salary-schedules
Why we must focus on the other side of the table, the city government.
"While the state legislature, based on past practice, will pass just about any pension increase in exchange for lobbyist funded steak dinners and campaign cash used to keep would-be challengers off the election ballot, governors and mayors sometime present obstacles. But in a year or two or three what deals would “President Andrew Cuomo” and “Senator Bill DeBlasio” be willing to cut? Would they be similar to deals cut by “President Eliot Spitzer” and “President Mike Bloomberg,” who did the 2008 deal for NYC teachers? “President George Pataki,” “Senator Rudy Giuliani,” and “Governor Carl McCall, who did the 2000 pension deals?” “President Nelson Rockefeller” and “President John Lindsay,” who did Tier I? What price did these men, or public union officials, retired public employees, and public employees with seniority soon to retire, pay for the resulting harm to the people of New York City? As part of the deals, the links between them and the later harm is never, ever discussed." https://larrylittlefield.wordpress.com/2017/07/29/long-term-pension-data...
Don't blame the rank and file.
By carving out a safe harbor for unacceptable performance for members, they are shaking down the citizens.
The union is a rational actor, it is getting the most it can http://www.uft.org/our-rights/salary-schedules
Why we must focus on the other side of the table, the city government.
"While the state legislature, based on past practice, will pass just about any pension increase in exchange for lobbyist funded steak dinners and campaign cash used to keep would-be challengers off the election ballot, governors and mayors sometime present obstacles. But in a year or two or three what deals would “President Andrew Cuomo” and “Senator Bill DeBlasio” be willing to cut? Would they be similar to deals cut by “President Eliot Spitzer” and “President Mike Bloomberg,” who did the 2008 deal for NYC teachers? “President George Pataki,” “Senator Rudy Giuliani,” and “Governor Carl McCall, who did the 2000 pension deals?” “President Nelson Rockefeller” and “President John Lindsay,” who did Tier I? What price did these men, or public union officials, retired public employees, and public employees with seniority soon to retire, pay for the resulting harm to the people of New York City? As part of the deals, the links between them and the later harm is never, ever discussed." https://larrylittlefield.wordpress.com/2017/07/29/long-term-pension-data...
Don't blame the rank and file.
3
The union was making sure that teachers who were excessed because of the enormous and enormously wrong-minded movement to create small schools (and the increased bureaucracy it demanded) were treated fairly and not penalized through no fault of their own.
If they deserve to be terminated, there is a process for that. If that process isn't followed, don't blame the UFT.
If they deserve to be terminated, there is a process for that. If that process isn't followed, don't blame the UFT.
8
My prior post was cut off due to a computer glitch. I meant at the end to say that teaching special ed or other such classes obviously requires more than subject matter mastery. But generally, even 1st grade teachers should have subject matter MAs. The subject matter MA establishes them as dedicated to learning and teaching. Believe it not I used my background in graduate mathematics in teaching the 4th grade where we had a vigorous discussion about whether zero was a number and what exactly a number was. NONE of my students from "Math for elementary school teachers" could have handled it. In fact in my view none of then should be allowed to teach math in grades 1-8. Without upgrading the standards for K-12 teachers all other reforms are destined to fail. Nothing can be done about the achievement gap between disadvantaged kids and the sons and daughters of the top 20% without giving these kids FIRST CLASS TEACHERS. Money not spent on getting these teachers is money down a rat hole. More than money, we should recruit the best and give them the public acclaim and respect they will deserve. My apologies to the truly competent K-12 teachers in our country. Nothing in what I've said should be taken as a criticism of you. You are HEROS. To the rest, like those in NYC who are just warehoused rather than fired because of corrupt unions, QUIT NOW and save what's left of your self respect and your souls. It would be a CRIME to let you teach.
Oh, yeah...those "supporting" charter schools: how many upper middle class and upper class kids attend one? Betcha the person who wrote this piece or none of the Waltons send their children to one. Check listings for open teaching positions, the big great majority for charter schools because teachers leave in droves, how much money do people that run these charter school enterprises make? "Charterization" of the school system is nothing more than an attempt to make education another source of profit for a few individuals. See how well that is working out with healthcare for profit after all...for the well-connected, well-lobbied healthcare industry.
12
Many administers rise to level of their incompetence. Moreover, many are vindictive and harass teachers whom they don't like and favor others. Sometimes disfavored teachers are too many low kids and discipline problems. When a teacher loses an assignment because of a poor rating,that teacher should be reassigned without prejudice. Subsequent failure should result in dismissal.
6
I think that a school should be set up where only teachers from the ATR can teach and that all New York City politicians, teachers, and union officials who live in NYC must send their children if they attend public schools.
This will solve the problem!!!
This will solve the problem!!!
8
Crickets from the union enablers.
2
In my experience, most teachers considered to be bad in the classroom were sincere and wanted to do a good job; they were just not cut out for the profession. Many saw the handwriting on the wall and left on their own or were "counseled "out. Others, after a few tough years, managed to succeed, sometimes spectacularly.
Occasionally, someone was beyond hope, but no faculty member I knew ever advocated in favor of "protecting" the incompetent; in fact, the staff was usually at least as interested in seeing unsuccessful teachers leave as parents and administrators were. As for the Teachers Association: it was made up of faculty members and led by a team elected by their peers, not run by a bunch of goons, and they were obligated to follow the terms of the contract they had negotiated with the local board.
This false notion that they defend the incompetent seems to be rooted in the fact that the Association, usually due to the blundering of administrators, is forced to defend the contract, which clearly defines a procedure for dismissal based on careful legal steps that ensure due process for both sides, which for some reason the administration neglects to follow. Then they whine, " It's impossible to fire anyone!"
Occasionally, someone was beyond hope, but no faculty member I knew ever advocated in favor of "protecting" the incompetent; in fact, the staff was usually at least as interested in seeing unsuccessful teachers leave as parents and administrators were. As for the Teachers Association: it was made up of faculty members and led by a team elected by their peers, not run by a bunch of goons, and they were obligated to follow the terms of the contract they had negotiated with the local board.
This false notion that they defend the incompetent seems to be rooted in the fact that the Association, usually due to the blundering of administrators, is forced to defend the contract, which clearly defines a procedure for dismissal based on careful legal steps that ensure due process for both sides, which for some reason the administration neglects to follow. Then they whine, " It's impossible to fire anyone!"
6
Curious as to Chancellor Farina's apparent silence on this -- the administration's only reason for offering this according to the linked article was the cost of the ATR (and, I suppose, temporary teachers filling the vacant positions), but I wasn't seeing any real defence of the efficacy of using these teachers by an administration representative.
Bad teachers are not teachers, they are problems. It is better to put the kids in the library and let them work independently or plop them in front of a video of a "Star Teacher" lecturing about something that the students in the Best School in the World receive, because they are teachers there.
1
As a former teacher, I couldn't agree more. This is very well said. I work in a state without a union presence, but it's still very, very tough to fire a bad teacher.
The only possible strategy I can imagine Mr. de Blasio might be employing is that ineffective teachers who've been paid for years for doing nothing may not want to have to work suddenly. Perhaps he's hoping most will quit. But even if that is his angle, it's a horrible chance to take. You can't gamble with a child's well-being, especially if he's coming from an unstable environment.
It seems like lawmakers could work around the union contract to some degree, the way Chicago and DC have done. This is such bad news for these kids.
The only possible strategy I can imagine Mr. de Blasio might be employing is that ineffective teachers who've been paid for years for doing nothing may not want to have to work suddenly. Perhaps he's hoping most will quit. But even if that is his angle, it's a horrible chance to take. You can't gamble with a child's well-being, especially if he's coming from an unstable environment.
It seems like lawmakers could work around the union contract to some degree, the way Chicago and DC have done. This is such bad news for these kids.
2
There are many reasons for being in the Absent Teacher Reserve pool. I know of a qualified senior physics teacher who ended up there because he refused to work for a nasty principal. (Although I had taught chemistry for 30 years at the college level I lost my DOE job because of the same principal.) Tenured senior teachers have endured a lot. With young, experienced principals flooding the DOE, many seniors are used by them as targets to reduce school salary costs and to demonstrate power. They chose a teaching career. Let them teach!
11
This article is further confirmation that the Left and the teacher unions don't care about students -- students and schools are simply a handy means to dole out money as part of a welfare state. If the Left cared about students, it would seriously examine innovative and revolutionary ways of improving the many severely under performing schools. Instead, it simply pumps more money into a bad system that is a proven failure for large, inner city children. If there are bad teachers, their right to be paid by the welfare state supersedes the rights of children and parents to have an adequate or good education. The welfare of children is only a tangential consideration in big-city school districts.
JD
JD
5
Within the DOE, principals discredit senior teachers to get rid of them to reduce school salary costs. It has nothing to do with teachers being being "bad." It is a game the DOE plays and the UFT union is a teacher's only protection. Having taught at the University level for 30 years and at the high school level for ten, I can compare college and high school administrators and the latter were universally terrible. It has nothing to do with "the Left." It has everything to do with letting teachers do their job without fear from overzealous administrators with an axe to grind. Teachers ought to be treated like the professionals they are. Teachers in all countries have unions. That is a good thing. Let teachers teach!
8
What appears equitable, unbiased and justifiable in educational practices at the district level, often is just the opposite. A good friend and outstanding teacher was harassed and given low evaluations just so he would quit. After twenty plus years teaching, he was high up on the salary scale. Union did nothing (except enable the harassment.) The admin hold all the cards and play them as they want. They know just how to play a vicious game of discrediting a professional. It's ugly, but it's a money game. The whole process is a farce.
9
I'm a retired HS English Teacher, who eventually branched into Professional Development in my latter years with NYC-DOE and UFT and was never an ATR. What I find a little suspicious in this article, is that while Mr. Sternberg, himself, cites specific statistics that show that only a minority of these "ATR's" received unsatisfactory ratings, or have been charged with criminal activity, he paints them all with one broad brush stroke, stigmatizing them all negatively. If you are to follow Mr. Sternberg's logic, he would have you believe that every ATR who ends up in a permanent position spells doom and disaster for needy schools.
He speaks as if there no qualified, dedicated senior ATR's, who through no fault of their own, end up excessed from their previous positions. Beliieve me, I've seen it and there are. Not once, does he address the possibility that many ATR's could be valuable additions to schools. This seems unfair, and makes me wonder if a big factor here concerns the cost of paying for a senior teacher, as opposed to a newbie with little experience or training. And although he doesn't seem to acknowledge it here, experience and training does count for something, as well to better the lives of students.
He speaks as if there no qualified, dedicated senior ATR's, who through no fault of their own, end up excessed from their previous positions. Beliieve me, I've seen it and there are. Not once, does he address the possibility that many ATR's could be valuable additions to schools. This seems unfair, and makes me wonder if a big factor here concerns the cost of paying for a senior teacher, as opposed to a newbie with little experience or training. And although he doesn't seem to acknowledge it here, experience and training does count for something, as well to better the lives of students.
11
I think the message was quiet clear.
"Data recently released by the city reveals that a third of teachers in the reserve pool had faced disciplinary or legal charges, and as has been reported nearly 20 percent received poor ratings — startling given that 93 percent of New York City teachers are rated effective or better."
When one considers the culture of American performance review metrics, this is quite striking.
Machine politics like this is what gives Democrats a bad name against a generation of conservatives that fled Blue York City. I'm not one of those conservatives, but I am the descendant of one, and I can see their point when things like this happen.
"Data recently released by the city reveals that a third of teachers in the reserve pool had faced disciplinary or legal charges, and as has been reported nearly 20 percent received poor ratings — startling given that 93 percent of New York City teachers are rated effective or better."
When one considers the culture of American performance review metrics, this is quite striking.
Machine politics like this is what gives Democrats a bad name against a generation of conservatives that fled Blue York City. I'm not one of those conservatives, but I am the descendant of one, and I can see their point when things like this happen.
3
They are already being paid. The author is suggesting some of their value is so far below replacement it'd be better to keep paying them to not teach than to put them in a classroom. If they're experienced, quality teachers they would already be qualified applicants in their own rights.
1
Yes, it is quite clear. But statistically, though it's not comforting, it's still a minority. And having been in the system, I was witness, though not personally, to how "disciplinary and legal charges" were sometimes crafted as political action against a teacher who went up against an incompetent or indifferent administration. There's plenty of incompetence and indifference to go around, and I'm not saying that every ATR deserves a post. I'm saying that plenty are experienced, qualified and dedicated people in their number who deserve a chance, which they don't always get for a variety of reasons.
3
Keep in mind that with 800 teachers in the ATR pool, that comes down to about 1/2 teacher per school. With many multi-school buildings, if nothing else, these ATRs can be used as ongoing substitute teachers, for day-to-day assignments (which is exactly what is happening). That way, students at least get a regular teacher for their sub, instead of someone from a list who has the minimum qualifications to be allowed to stand in front of up to 34 kids. This makes scheduling the daily coverages much easier, and doesn't cost the city the daily wages of a day-to-day sub, which often can't be obtained anyway. (The alternative often is that regularly assigned teachers have to lose a prep period to cover someone else's class.)
6
Teacher tenure patently needs to be abolished. However, that can't happen unless the salary system is revised. Teachers go in to the job on fairly low salaries ($30,000s in my district) and by the end of a 30-year career end up with salaries close to $100,000. This creates a problem that makes the tenure system essential: As a (lower-level) administrator in my district, I'm told by my superiors not to even consider hiring a teacher with more than 6 or 7 years' experience; such a teacher is more expensive than a teacher in year one or two, and school budgets are tight. This is the same in all districts I know of. Thus, if a 7+year teacher loses a position, they probably will never teach again. Why would a school hire them when they can hire someone much cheaper? (When you are up against an impossible budget, the argument that experience brings better teaching counts for nothing.)
If tenure did not exist, district administrators would have no reason not to come up with bogus reasons to fire veteran teachers and replace them with newbies. Tenure is thus essential--unless, that is, we change the salary structure. Take the amount of money a teacher earns over the course of 30 years, divide it by 30, and pay all teachers the same. That way, administrators would have no incentive to fire older teachers for financial reasons, and teachers would not receive what is essentially a professional death sentence if they lose a job after about year 7. Do that, and then eliminate tenure.
If tenure did not exist, district administrators would have no reason not to come up with bogus reasons to fire veteran teachers and replace them with newbies. Tenure is thus essential--unless, that is, we change the salary structure. Take the amount of money a teacher earns over the course of 30 years, divide it by 30, and pay all teachers the same. That way, administrators would have no incentive to fire older teachers for financial reasons, and teachers would not receive what is essentially a professional death sentence if they lose a job after about year 7. Do that, and then eliminate tenure.
4
Let's not forget that other professionals put out products that do not depend on so many variables for success. You want to design a tool? You do so. You want to fill a tooth? You do so.
You want to teach a child? Well, his parents never lived together, he has five half-siblings, his mother can't keep a job and doesn't seem to want to anyway, and no one ever expected him to speak in a full sentence or to concentrate on a task. His father, such as he is, drives a black Audi but won't contribute money to the "family." His grandmother, who acted as a surrogate parent, just died.
Or his parents are together but argue all the time and don't think much about education anyway, spending their time watching TV and drinking with their buddies. They call people who want their kids to do well "elites" and vote for politicians who defund schools and infrastructure projects.
You think it's easy to teach kids? You think there's a formula?
You want to teach a child? Well, his parents never lived together, he has five half-siblings, his mother can't keep a job and doesn't seem to want to anyway, and no one ever expected him to speak in a full sentence or to concentrate on a task. His father, such as he is, drives a black Audi but won't contribute money to the "family." His grandmother, who acted as a surrogate parent, just died.
Or his parents are together but argue all the time and don't think much about education anyway, spending their time watching TV and drinking with their buddies. They call people who want their kids to do well "elites" and vote for politicians who defund schools and infrastructure projects.
You think it's easy to teach kids? You think there's a formula?
6
The main components of a school are basically the teachers and the students, so not having an opinion from either is definitely disadvantageous. I would like to hear what the teachers in the reserve pool have to say about their situations and if the students and parents were informed about this. As a recent graduate from Brooklyn Tech, I’m here to offer the perspective of student after reading this. The first reaction was of course confusion over the fact that there was an Absent Teacher Reserve Pool and that they get paid even when they’re not teaching. I would not be happy if I found out my teacher was just assigned to teach the class because they’ve been inactive in the teaching field for a while. If the teacher is unmotivated and ineffective, how would you think students would feel? They would think ‘the teacher doesn’t even want to be here, why should I want to be here?’ I was lucky to have had a fair share of influential teachers in my life that definitely made me who I am and I think every student deserves that too. In addition, hiring teachers out of seniority instead of skill and effectiveness just seems way too outdated. This is why teachers are so disrespected and underappreciated in this country and exactly why we are behind so many other countries in term of a quality education.
3
Plain and simple. Hiring teachers based on seniority instead of ability is one of the main reasons why our school system is behind other civilized countries. We need to raise the requirements for teaching, pay the teachers better, and treat them with more respect, as they do in Asia and in Nordic countries.
10
respect is earned and should not be assumed.
furthermore, as one poster said many future teachers in education programs show minimal expertise in their assumed area of expertise.
furthermore, as one poster said many future teachers in education programs show minimal expertise in their assumed area of expertise.
2
But don't Asian students do extremely well in American schools? It would seem they don't need Asian school systems to succeed. Could it be that their cultures and their families stress education and respect for teachers and don't put up with excuses?
8
Beware any information coming from the Walton, pro privatization, Foundation!!! Fake News!
These were teachers who were excessed due to budget cuts. Under the 2005 contract, bumping less senior teachers was eliminated. They had to apply for jobs. Many teachers had great references and found new positions. Then, as reported in the NYTimes, Chancellor Joel Klen sent an email to all principals ordering them not to hire ATRs and labeled them undesirable!!! Good teachers were forced to live the life as a perpetual substitute teacher. (Going week to week to a new school until it was changed to month to month.) One, who happened to be a friend, was put into this pool when his school was closed. He was lucky enough to fill a position for a teacher on maternity leave. The principal and staff was impressed by him, but due to the guidelines, could not hire him on a permanent basis. There are many excellent teachers in this pool. If they don't cut the mustard, they will be judged like any other teacher. In the meantime, let them do what they love most--Teach!!!!
These were teachers who were excessed due to budget cuts. Under the 2005 contract, bumping less senior teachers was eliminated. They had to apply for jobs. Many teachers had great references and found new positions. Then, as reported in the NYTimes, Chancellor Joel Klen sent an email to all principals ordering them not to hire ATRs and labeled them undesirable!!! Good teachers were forced to live the life as a perpetual substitute teacher. (Going week to week to a new school until it was changed to month to month.) One, who happened to be a friend, was put into this pool when his school was closed. He was lucky enough to fill a position for a teacher on maternity leave. The principal and staff was impressed by him, but due to the guidelines, could not hire him on a permanent basis. There are many excellent teachers in this pool. If they don't cut the mustard, they will be judged like any other teacher. In the meantime, let them do what they love most--Teach!!!!
34
This is ridiculously cherry-picked and one-sided. I submit quotes from another NYTimes article from 3 weeks ago.
"[The teachers] will be placed in schools that still have jobs unfilled by Mid-October." Meaning, it's either a revolving door of short-term and long-term substitutes, or certified teachers. Hmmm hard choice. I work in a troubled Title 1 school that has had 50% turnover almost every year for the past 8 years, and let me tell you, a semi-ok certified teacher committed for the year is MUCH better than substitutes all year. These ATR teachers need training and support, not demonization.
"[The teachers] were sidelined in most cases because of disciplinary problems or bad teaching records or because they had worked in poorly performing schools that were closed or where enrollment declined." So, knowing why a teacher is in the ATR is not as clear-cut as this article portrays.
Lastly, the Aug 18 article says that only about 400 of the 822 ATR teachers will be receiving teaching placements. I'm going to assume that they are the "better" half of the ATR program, with qualifications that meet the needs of the unfilled positions.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/nyregion/absent-teacher-reserve-plan....
"[The teachers] will be placed in schools that still have jobs unfilled by Mid-October." Meaning, it's either a revolving door of short-term and long-term substitutes, or certified teachers. Hmmm hard choice. I work in a troubled Title 1 school that has had 50% turnover almost every year for the past 8 years, and let me tell you, a semi-ok certified teacher committed for the year is MUCH better than substitutes all year. These ATR teachers need training and support, not demonization.
"[The teachers] were sidelined in most cases because of disciplinary problems or bad teaching records or because they had worked in poorly performing schools that were closed or where enrollment declined." So, knowing why a teacher is in the ATR is not as clear-cut as this article portrays.
Lastly, the Aug 18 article says that only about 400 of the 822 ATR teachers will be receiving teaching placements. I'm going to assume that they are the "better" half of the ATR program, with qualifications that meet the needs of the unfilled positions.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/nyregion/absent-teacher-reserve-plan....
22
I'm torn on this. My son is in a school where the prior principal used the rubber rooms as an intimidation and retaliatory consequence for teachers who had done NOTHING wrong (and were fully exonerated) and I wonder how many teachers in this limbo status are truly terrible teachers or risks vs. how many are unjustly sidelined.
Also, if you have budgetary issues and 1400 teachers on pay who aren't teaching why not expediently revisit their cases and perhaps place them in class rooms? I know our school last year would have been better off if the cases hadn't taken a year or more time to work through the hearings, ultimately with the teachers back in the school but after much division and harm to students and parents and other staff.
Coming from an organization that is funded by the Waltons and is known for advocating for charter schools and contributing to many conservative groups I'm hesitant to take this opinion piece at face value.
Also, if you have budgetary issues and 1400 teachers on pay who aren't teaching why not expediently revisit their cases and perhaps place them in class rooms? I know our school last year would have been better off if the cases hadn't taken a year or more time to work through the hearings, ultimately with the teachers back in the school but after much division and harm to students and parents and other staff.
Coming from an organization that is funded by the Waltons and is known for advocating for charter schools and contributing to many conservative groups I'm hesitant to take this opinion piece at face value.
23
Yes, the real problem is that these teachers are still being paid while no principal would want to employ them. Do the paperwork required to get rid of them, or figure out how to manage in a world where some employees are not as good as others.
3
Seems like the School District has been mismanaging this situation. Why would any court confirm the obligation of a public institution to retain employees whose only job is to do nothing. None would. What they would do is look at the employment contract and the statutes and the previous court rulings and upon those require conditions to be met prior to termination that the employers are not meeting. The School District is not performing it's obligations under the law that must be satisfied prior to termination. So what are these and why can't the School District fulfill these obligations? Sounds like a bunch of people who are more concerned about advancing on the basis of their well publicized successes and popularity than managers who are focusing on doing their day to day jobs.
1
Assuming that Mr. Sternberg wants the best education for our children and that his is not influenced by his position with Walton Schools, I would like to point out relevant facts that he omitted:
Charter schools do not have to adhere to staffing rules.
Students are given better enrichment.
There are smaller classes.
They are not required to serve the same percentage of students with disabilities.
Parents must request the school. Thus the parents are involved.
As for the union complaints. No teacher wants to work with an incompetent colleague.
It is not the union that grants tenure it is the administration. Bad teachers should be fired, not passed on to the next school because license termination is too much trouble.
Finally, I taught in the New York City High Schools for 26 years. I have three permanent licenses. I was a mentor, a mentor trainer and a Teacher Center Coordinator.
I have never received an unsatisfactory rating.
Despite this if my school had closed I might have had trouble getting another job. The schools are given a fixed budget, not a number of teachers. Few principals would hire a teacher on the highest pay scale when they might for the same money get two teachers. The teachers in the pool are not all bottom of the barrel. But if they are it was their principals who did not put the effort into firing them.
Charter schools do not have to adhere to staffing rules.
Students are given better enrichment.
There are smaller classes.
They are not required to serve the same percentage of students with disabilities.
Parents must request the school. Thus the parents are involved.
As for the union complaints. No teacher wants to work with an incompetent colleague.
It is not the union that grants tenure it is the administration. Bad teachers should be fired, not passed on to the next school because license termination is too much trouble.
Finally, I taught in the New York City High Schools for 26 years. I have three permanent licenses. I was a mentor, a mentor trainer and a Teacher Center Coordinator.
I have never received an unsatisfactory rating.
Despite this if my school had closed I might have had trouble getting another job. The schools are given a fixed budget, not a number of teachers. Few principals would hire a teacher on the highest pay scale when they might for the same money get two teachers. The teachers in the pool are not all bottom of the barrel. But if they are it was their principals who did not put the effort into firing them.
30
I personally know and have worked with Andrea and I can tell you that she was an excellent and devoted teacher, and her wisdom gained through experience should be trusted.
1
I can certainly attest to the value of a great teacher and the harm a bad one can do. I just wish society could and would start demanding more from parents as well. We shouldn't be putting all the emphasis on teachers without reminding people that parents play a huge role in children's education as well.
23
You can't fire parents! You can't legislate parents. If they are bad, that is a problem but there are not a great many levers you can push or pull. But you can let bad teachers go. Make it difficult to do so but not IMPOSSIBLE!
4
All one need look at are the massive political bribes (woops, political donations) to de Blasio from the teachers' unions to understand who His Honor works for,
"It's all about the children" is the most gag worthy comment coming out of de Blasio's or teacher union leadership's gullets.
"It's all about the children" is the most gag worthy comment coming out of de Blasio's or teacher union leadership's gullets.
14
Not true. He said during his campaign he would end this draconian treatment on those who lost positions due to budget cuts, not performance! Why it took 4 years is the real question. Then again, why would anyone o into teaching knowing when the money ax hits a school, would want to end up an ATR!!!!
7
And that's evil, unlike the massive political bribes paid by out current Sectary of Education and charter school advocate to the Trump campaign, right?
4
State sponsored child abuse pure and simple!
7
Gee, thanks, teacher's unions.
12
The unions have no power beyond that acquired by providing collective bargaining. If the employers agree to conditions which they determine that they cannot fulfill, they need to renegotiate the contracts.
6
Hey Casual Observer, its called corruption. The unions buy politicians and support them at election time. Let's not be naive. These contracts are negotiated in bad faith by 2 corrupt parties.
2
I'll thank ALL teachers unions; because of them, the people who taught me in my K-12 years could concentrate on their jobs---teaching their students---and not having to be distracted with threats from people who like to bully and play politics in the classroom.
Because of the teachers I had---and yes, a couple of them WERE turkeys, but most were VERY dedicated to their jobs and got great results---I was able to go to an excellent college and join the middle class.
So much for your snarky and ignorant swipe at our teachers and the organization that allows them to focus on their students.
Because of the teachers I had---and yes, a couple of them WERE turkeys, but most were VERY dedicated to their jobs and got great results---I was able to go to an excellent college and join the middle class.
So much for your snarky and ignorant swipe at our teachers and the organization that allows them to focus on their students.
7
What a pathetic, stupid, hostile, comment about teachers in the ATR pool. The fact that he is part of the rabidly anti-union Walton organization as director of K-12 education says it all. He even quotes a widely discredited statistic that one year of with a good teacher increases the likelyhood of success. The biggest reason for "membership" in the ATR pool is higher cost veteran teachers. I was told by more than one principal that they could not afford veteran teachers. If the Walton family values anything it is money, so much so that their workers are helped by the Walton organization to file for welfare assistance while fully employed to compensate for the low wages.
Finally, Mr Sternberg informs us about the phenominal success he had as principal. Michelle Rhee all over again? We know how that turned out.
Retired teacher and never in the ATR pool. Most of the veterans I worked with that are still teaching are in the ATR pool. Most were considered good teachers.
Finally, Mr Sternberg informs us about the phenominal success he had as principal. Michelle Rhee all over again? We know how that turned out.
Retired teacher and never in the ATR pool. Most of the veterans I worked with that are still teaching are in the ATR pool. Most were considered good teachers.
41
I worked for the teachers union. We used to laugh at all the cases where teacher's could not get fired. Buying cocaine,no job loss. Inviting students over for movie night with alcohol. No job loss. Only sex with a student will have you lose your job as a teacher. Anything short of that your job is golden.
2
Now is there any doubt whose pocket DeBlasio is in. The teacher's union has owned him from day 1!
12
As Marc Sternberg is a shill for Charter schools and funded by the Walton Foundation who could not know his for-profit motivations in demonizing public schools and unions? http://www.pmpress.org/content/article.php/20160611190911862/print
https://dianeravitch.net/
https://dianeravitch.net/
25
Great idea. Blame the teachers. Next in line for a public flogging: ditch-diggers.
8
too bad the comparison is with manual labor and not another profession like pediatricians
4
Yes, because teachers are holier than thou and should not be subject to criticism like police officers or other professions. Give it a long rest.
2
This doesn't blame all teachers. Just the ones that were removed, and need to be fired.
Why do we always do this, teachers doctors cops etc... is it so hard for people to imagine that there are bad cops and bad teachers? Welcome to the world there are productive and lazy humans in all institutions.
Why do we always do this, teachers doctors cops etc... is it so hard for people to imagine that there are bad cops and bad teachers? Welcome to the world there are productive and lazy humans in all institutions.
4
Mayor Bill de Blasio is forcing principals to take the dregs of the system’s employees to teach the dregs of the system's students..
8
There is something seriously wrong with a union policy that prohibits the firing of incompetent or otherwise poorly performing teachers. This is a perfect example of union power gone amok. If this were a private enterprise, the laggard employees would be rooted out if their performance had not improved over time. Why do these individuals get a break, and, adding insult to injury, get paid for their deficiencies.
I'm waiting for the liberal justification of this! de Blasio -a loser!
I'm waiting for the liberal justification of this! de Blasio -a loser!
10
Union policy doesn't prohibit the firing of incompetent teachers. There is a due process for doing this, and principals who are not lazy follow it for teachers in the ATR pool and also for regularly appointed teachers.
The ATR pool was created so that teachers who found themselves excessed during the period of destruction of the traditional large schools would not have to suffer for this ridiculous new policy. It had nothing to do with protecting incompetent teachers.
The ATR pool was created so that teachers who found themselves excessed during the period of destruction of the traditional large schools would not have to suffer for this ridiculous new policy. It had nothing to do with protecting incompetent teachers.
3
The bio of the author of this article says it all: Marc Sternberg, the director of K-12 education for the Walton Family Foundation, was a deputy chancellor of the New York City Department of Education during the Bloomberg administration.
For the life of me, I can't understand why the New York Times continues to push the agenda for charter schools, repeating the lies that the charter industry's PR machine puts forth. As a certified and licensed teacher in public schools and as a product of them, I'm appalled at the exaggerations and stereotypes Sternberg is permitted to use in the Times. I'd like to know the certifications and degrees his staff has.
For the life of me, I can't understand why the New York Times continues to push the agenda for charter schools, repeating the lies that the charter industry's PR machine puts forth. As a certified and licensed teacher in public schools and as a product of them, I'm appalled at the exaggerations and stereotypes Sternberg is permitted to use in the Times. I'd like to know the certifications and degrees his staff has.
28
and of course they don't show how much (actually how little) this man had as a teacher before suddenly becoming a Principal and his job at Joel Klein's DOE to destroy and butcher schools they decided were "failing". And when he finally butchered Jamaica High School, took his staff out for drinks. He really cared about the kids. He really never knew the first thing about teaching but certainly was able to use this to land his job at Walmart.
Why doesn't the Times tell us the qualifications or lack thereof for peopld sho write op-eds for them. Sternberg represented evil during his time at the DOE and judging by this pack of lies here, still does.
Why doesn't the Times tell us the qualifications or lack thereof for peopld sho write op-eds for them. Sternberg represented evil during his time at the DOE and judging by this pack of lies here, still does.
12
From Sternberg's Walton Family Foundation bio and from articles like chalktalk, here is what one can put together about the life and times of Marc Sternberg:
He got his bachelor's from Princeton in 1995, putting his year of birth at roughly 1974.
He took a Teach for America posting, then got both an MBA and MEd from Harvard, meaning he had a gap in his NYC teaching, unless Harvard had correspondence courses in the late 1990s to early aughts. He ascended to Principal in 2004, or nine years after graduating with a Bachelor's degree. In another six years, or about age 36, he was promoted to "senior deputy chancellor." At the age of 36, with almost certainly fewer than fifteen years experience in the NYC public schools, maybe as few as ten. By age 40, he had decamped for the Walton Family Foundation.
His resume is about as thin and suspect as John King, former NYS Education Commissioner and short time US Secretary of Education.
He is now about 43, give or take.
He got his bachelor's from Princeton in 1995, putting his year of birth at roughly 1974.
He took a Teach for America posting, then got both an MBA and MEd from Harvard, meaning he had a gap in his NYC teaching, unless Harvard had correspondence courses in the late 1990s to early aughts. He ascended to Principal in 2004, or nine years after graduating with a Bachelor's degree. In another six years, or about age 36, he was promoted to "senior deputy chancellor." At the age of 36, with almost certainly fewer than fifteen years experience in the NYC public schools, maybe as few as ten. By age 40, he had decamped for the Walton Family Foundation.
His resume is about as thin and suspect as John King, former NYS Education Commissioner and short time US Secretary of Education.
He is now about 43, give or take.
4
This article makes no sense to me, because it fails to say what the Mayor proposes to do with teachers in the Reserve Pool. It implies that the Mayor wants to force them into the classroom. But how? And is that true? Or does the author simply object to the existence of the Pool? Either way Times editors should have cleaned up this piece before they ran it.
5
For democrats, pandering to the Teachers union comes first.
12
I think this editorial would make a good teaching tool: why critical thinking is important (Does the author have a bias?), how to analyze an argument (Are all the facts presented? Who is actually in the Absent Teacher Reserve?), and whether the predictions are based on unfounded allegations or demonstrable evidence.
My thanks to the awesome commenters who filled in the (big) blanks in this latest attack on public schools/unions/covert charter school boosterism. While I'm sad this appeared here as opposed to, say, Fox, I guess it's good to see how the fight is being waged by our plutocrats.
My thanks to the awesome commenters who filled in the (big) blanks in this latest attack on public schools/unions/covert charter school boosterism. While I'm sad this appeared here as opposed to, say, Fox, I guess it's good to see how the fight is being waged by our plutocrats.
24
Why cannot they be placed in non-teaching office positions? They're college graduates and certainly should be able to do paperwork or be receptionists, somewhere in the bowels of the Board of Education.
12
They are. They are usually assigned to a school to cover for absent teachers, and there's usually at least one absent every day.
I've been a public school teacher since finishing graduate school a decade ago. While teaching was not my goal, it became my passion. I try to give a 100% to my classes, although circumstances do not always make it easy, especially in today's world where new philosophies and movements replace those of yesteryear. It remains constant though that positive collaboration between dedicated administrators and teachers make great schools. In the end, it should be about educating students. If this isn't goal #1, folks are in the wrong profession. I'm shocked by the system in NYC - if I could not personally find a teaching job while being paid to do so, or for some reason lacked the skills or willingness to learn about effective teaching, I'd consider a new path.
13
Mr. Sternberg will not personally benefit from his agenda as he is being accused here. You may diagree with him, but he is thinking of the children. The union is not.
Yes, there may be some good NYC teachers stuck in this limbo, but most of them should be fired. But they can't be fired because the union will file a law suit that will take years and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Kudos to Mr. Strenberg for speaking the truth to power (the union and their patron, Mayor de Blasio).
Yes, there may be some good NYC teachers stuck in this limbo, but most of them should be fired. But they can't be fired because the union will file a law suit that will take years and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Kudos to Mr. Strenberg for speaking the truth to power (the union and their patron, Mayor de Blasio).
11
Mr. Sternberg is a paid advocate of the Walton foundation whose job is to attack public schools as part of prompting the charter movement. Hence he will benefit for pushing the polices of his employer, as every employee may benefit by donning what they are tasked to do.
7
I wonder if Mr. Sternberg was ever a great teacher himself or simply found such a lowly role as that demeaning for one with such obvious brilliance as himself. To me a great teacher is one who actually wants to teach kids rather than setting their sights on getting into administration and away from the kids and the higher pay that goes with the moment they get their teaching credential.
7
Sternberg was one of those TFA teachers who spend a couple of years teaching in Joel Klein's DOE and was made a Principal; certainly not having the slightest ability to work with teachers based on his experiences which is the prime role of a Principal. And since he proved to be a wonderful hatchet man, he was moved into the central DOE where he proceeded to butcher many schools. A very hateful man who never deserved to be a Deputy Superintendent and prove it quite conclusively by his actions. Too many people like hm around destroying public education in this city and country.
13
I second what Eileen wrote below....this is a union issue and while I wholly support unions, the union has a responsibility to clear out the cobwebs and get rid of teachers who are unfit. This partisan article singles out Mayor DeBlasio in an unfair way and the writer is biased as a representative of the not-to-be-trusted Walmart.
11
It's not the union's job to weed out unfit teachers. That's the job of management (principals), and they have the option of doing just that. However, a lot of them have found it too much to bother doing so.
Still, a lot of ATRs are not unfit; they were excessed through no fault of their own.
Still, a lot of ATRs are not unfit; they were excessed through no fault of their own.
2
Administrators need to do their jobs, and the paperwork.
"I can't do my job, I can't file the correct paperwork to fire a teacher." It's someone else's fault!
Being an administrator is hard work, that's what you get paid for. Document and terminate.
"I can't do my job, I can't file the correct paperwork to fire a teacher." It's someone else's fault!
Being an administrator is hard work, that's what you get paid for. Document and terminate.
12
I remember when my (not NYC) district decided to force these substandard teachers into the classroom. I had two fifth graders at the time. They dashed into the house saying, "Who was Jeffrey Dahmer?" As I fielded the question, and asked a few of my own, I learned that the 'teacher' had used his death in jail as a lesson to teach the kids...something I forget what.
I strongly support unions. Including teacher's unions. But this is an abuse that must be resolved. To pay these teachers in districts across the country to do nothing is criminal against all the kids in those districts.
I strongly support unions. Including teacher's unions. But this is an abuse that must be resolved. To pay these teachers in districts across the country to do nothing is criminal against all the kids in those districts.
11
Reading anything about ideas in education by someone on the Walton Foundation is a joke. Instead of spending billions on charters to mess with unions and steal money from public schools, the Waltons could do infinitely more to improve the lives of Americans if they decided to a) Stop importing junk from China and only sell made-in-America products and b) Pay their employees more than a minimum wage so they can feed, house and help their children out of poverty. Please, NYT, quit asking hungry foxes about henhouse management, could you?
15
Sadly we will all focus on the fact that Sternberg works for Walton Foundation. And sadly this will be about dogma and people fighting about politics again, not fighting for the kids. At the end of the day, if a teacher is sitting in the rubber room, there are very good reasons. I know of one who has been in several physical altercations with students over years! Its the unions problem at that point stopping the process to terminate. Stop trying to please everyone. You have bad apple. Lets move on! Do something about it. Stop blaming conservatives asking for reform. Stop blaming bureaucrats in Albany. Stop stop stop. You have people in that unit are unfit to teach. Why is there any more discussion about continuing their employment?
2
You misunderstood the article. It was not about "rubber rooms". The thrust was about ATR's. ATR's are mostly veteran teachers that administrators would like to replace with lower cost new teachers. So if experience isn't valued then so be it.
9
As a former school teacher in both an impoverished "inner city" school (union) and a high performing charter school (no union.) I've seen excellent and poor teachers in both contexts. I support teacher unions and reasonable protections against unfair dismissal (such as ageism or salary caps) but no teacher should be immune to objective and fair teacher observation/evaluations when they rightfully result in ATR status, and certainly no teacher should be allowed to collect a paycheck without even applying for another job within the system! Forcing Principals to hire from the ATR pool removes any motivation for self improvement when said teacher knows "they're forced to hire me." As always there are two sides to the argument but the documented history of the NYC school system seems to demonstrate that it is excessively hard to weed out ineffective teachers.
2
I don't teach in NYC, and I'm unaware of any data that would give me an objective sense of whether or not most teachers placed in the ATR wind up there due to their own incompetence or unfair treatment. However, I have noticed over my 15 years as a teacher that, to most administrators, a "good" teacher is one who will not only follow their directives, but act as cheerleaders for them. "Bad" teachers are, more often than not, those teachers who question administrative decisions or fight for greater teacher autonomy.
19
I'm the product of NYC city schools - from 1st grade through high school. Every person with similar experience can name, along with some great teachers,(I had Frank McCourt), at least 2 or 3 who were incompetent/burned out/never cared. They shouldn't be teaching.
Yet the leadership of the teachers' union can't seem to name a single one.
As long as that is true, the claim that the union's foremost concern are the children they teach, is laughable.
Yet the leadership of the teachers' union can't seem to name a single one.
As long as that is true, the claim that the union's foremost concern are the children they teach, is laughable.
6
Unions don't hire teachers, don't evaluate teachers, and can't fire teachers. Principals do all three and there is a clear process for firing.
2
Peter, I'm also a K-12 product of NYC schools, also a Stuyvesant HS grad, where Frank McCourt was my homeroom teacher for 3 years, and my English teacher for my whole senior year. After college, I used to run into him on the street when I was working in the West Village, near where he lived. You are not putting the critical thinking skills so well taught at Stuy to good use when you write "the claim that the union's foremost concern are the children they teach, is laughable." Any of the outstanding History teachers at Stuy would be able to tell you that the foremost concern of ANY union is representation of its members, and collective bargaining on their behalf.
Even at Stuy, there were good and bad teachers. To think that all teachers, Lake Woebegone style, should be "above average," is simply magical thinking.
But tenure does not guarantee a teacher a job; it guarantees due process. Teachers can, & should, be fired for cause. Part of collective bargaining is a specific process for discipline, removal, & firing of a teacher. The sad truth is that there are way too many administrators who just can't be bothered to write up teachers who need to be written up. Without procedures being followed, the teachers can't be fired. Everybody knows the rules. Problem is, when I graduated Stuy in 1976, there were no administrators there, zero, under age 50. The author of this article taught, got 2 Masters, became a principal and a senior deputy chancellor by 36. Experience used to count.
Even at Stuy, there were good and bad teachers. To think that all teachers, Lake Woebegone style, should be "above average," is simply magical thinking.
But tenure does not guarantee a teacher a job; it guarantees due process. Teachers can, & should, be fired for cause. Part of collective bargaining is a specific process for discipline, removal, & firing of a teacher. The sad truth is that there are way too many administrators who just can't be bothered to write up teachers who need to be written up. Without procedures being followed, the teachers can't be fired. Everybody knows the rules. Problem is, when I graduated Stuy in 1976, there were no administrators there, zero, under age 50. The author of this article taught, got 2 Masters, became a principal and a senior deputy chancellor by 36. Experience used to count.
4
Struck by how many comments here could be summarized by, "Don't think about the argument, let me tell you about the author." Whatever you think of the author, or charter schools, the current system reads like something out of Kafka. It obviously serves a purpose for the people who run and participate in it, but at the expense of society in general, and of a lot of vulnerable children in particular. It's an embarrassment and an outrage.
4
One of the basic tenants of thinking critically is asking yourself if the author or researcher could possibly have a bias that might influence the contents of their article or study. It's reasonable to bring information about who the author is working for into the mix when trying to make sense of an article with a clear editorial stance or a study with controversial results. Bringing this information into the play allows the complexities of the issue to be fully aired.
4
Fair enough, to a point (and indeed I wonder if some of the commenters here aren't members of the teachers union, for the same reasons you give about assessing bias). But the point I was trying to make was, if someone's comments both begin and end with, this guy's no good, don't listen to him, and don't actually address the argument raised, that's a dodge. It's not airing the complexities of an issue; it's a simple ad hominem argument.
1
Human parents should be concerned about what's best for their children, and not what's best for "schools", or "teachers", or "administrators". Clearly that's not the case, because if it were, parents would want public schools abolished, and then they would be free to send their children to whatever private schools or tutors - or none at all - they want.
Like all "public works" the public school system in America tends toward corrupt autocratic and bureaucratic systems that fail to produce what their proponents claim they're aiming toward: educated teenagers. Abolish them, and let actual freedom reign.
https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2013/07/public-school-teacher-admir...
Like all "public works" the public school system in America tends toward corrupt autocratic and bureaucratic systems that fail to produce what their proponents claim they're aiming toward: educated teenagers. Abolish them, and let actual freedom reign.
https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2013/07/public-school-teacher-admir...
5
This article is way off base. As a former New York City teacher I can tell you the facts. Many teachers (myself included) got shuttled to the absent teacher reserve
as Bloomberg/Klein closed below average schools in June & then reopened them in September. By doing this the scores were removed from the records and the average scores showed improvement ! Very creative … As an experienced teacher with two master degrees my pay was above the average. Principals would not hire me since they were under pressure to keep expenses down !!! (after applying multiple times a considerate principle shared the budget issue with me.) So … I gave up applying for positions & eventually chose to leave NYC DOE rather than shuttle from school to school as a substitute. As expected I obtained a much high pay & better working conditions in the private sector. PS My advise to those college students today is to choose any another profession than teaching.
as Bloomberg/Klein closed below average schools in June & then reopened them in September. By doing this the scores were removed from the records and the average scores showed improvement ! Very creative … As an experienced teacher with two master degrees my pay was above the average. Principals would not hire me since they were under pressure to keep expenses down !!! (after applying multiple times a considerate principle shared the budget issue with me.) So … I gave up applying for positions & eventually chose to leave NYC DOE rather than shuttle from school to school as a substitute. As expected I obtained a much high pay & better working conditions in the private sector. PS My advise to those college students today is to choose any another profession than teaching.
12
@DMC: Public schools are governed by the following pressures:
- Unions
- Bureaucracy
- Politics
These three items are what determines how public schools operate. The NYC "absent teacher reserve" pool was created as a policy decision based on these three items. Unions prevent firing of bad teachers; politics prevent keeping bad teachers where they are; bureaucracy dictates the creation of the pool. The students' receiving a solid education does not pressure at all.
- Unions
- Bureaucracy
- Politics
These three items are what determines how public schools operate. The NYC "absent teacher reserve" pool was created as a policy decision based on these three items. Unions prevent firing of bad teachers; politics prevent keeping bad teachers where they are; bureaucracy dictates the creation of the pool. The students' receiving a solid education does not pressure at all.
2
Impossible to fire? My son was fired. He is an outstanding educator with a history of excellent outcome results, and positive testimonials to his performance. His crime was befriending a teacher who has in the forefront of having the school's principal evaluated as she was incompetent. She had no background in education. My son had a master's degree. She had his license revoked as revenge against his evil plotting. He lost his livelihood. That was three years ago. He still hasn't found adequate employment. Oh. She was fired soon after she got rid of him, but even at his hearing, there was no path for his re-instatement.
9
Sounds like another teacher hating principal that enjoyed purging his staff and hiring substitutes. I think its commendable that "throwaway" teachers be given another chance because the recent 10 years of educational reform failures have proven that the teacher in the classroom can't fix all of society's problems, and that the test and drill cycle is cruel and unrealistic.
5
Why do I get the feeling that many of the commenters who are dismissing this op-ed are in the teacher's union? I'm a parent with a child in the NYC public school system and I have observed that the teacher's union is one of the biggest obstacles to progress--and I say this as a long time union activist and union supporter in my own industry. No parent out there wants these teachers in their kids' school, and I think the teachers defending this policy are shameless.
10
I am a teacher. I am in a union. I don'r think wanting to have due process before I am fired makes me "shameless."
On the contrary, I think if I could be fired with a wave of the hand, I would be forced to do many things that would be detrimental to my students, such as completely ignoring my own professional judgment in deference to every administrator's whim and every educational fad that comes along (and a new one comes along every year). Or how about when I advocate for an illiterate teenager to be evaluated for learning disabilities? That costs money, so it is strongly discouraged. How about giving students access to a wide variety interesting books to read and encouraging them to read books of their choice for homework, when the flavor-of-the-month is requiring written homework every day in every class?
Making public school teachers at-will employees means they can be fired for anything or nothing, in which case they can just as easily be fired for doing the right thing.
On the contrary, I think if I could be fired with a wave of the hand, I would be forced to do many things that would be detrimental to my students, such as completely ignoring my own professional judgment in deference to every administrator's whim and every educational fad that comes along (and a new one comes along every year). Or how about when I advocate for an illiterate teenager to be evaluated for learning disabilities? That costs money, so it is strongly discouraged. How about giving students access to a wide variety interesting books to read and encouraging them to read books of their choice for homework, when the flavor-of-the-month is requiring written homework every day in every class?
Making public school teachers at-will employees means they can be fired for anything or nothing, in which case they can just as easily be fired for doing the right thing.
14
Welcome to the real world. You have to meet expectations or you have to go. You think teachers are somehow different?
1
Only in the public sector can you get paid for doing nothing. These "teachers" and their union should be congratulated for how well they support the least-abled among them. Now, if they only had the same empathy for the students they were supposed to serve, then we'd be on to something.
8
Are you talking about public schools, or about the White House?
2
“When the kids start paying dues, I’ll represent them, too.” and “A union’s job is to represent their members on the job, not to improve their teaching skills.” These statements, one a repetition of Al Shanker’s view, another that of a separate commentator, are evidence of the failure of traditional institutions – the education “industry” is not alone – to focus on the benefit to those that such institutions purportedly serve. This systemic failure pervades much of our social fabric, and has corroded shared national purpose, and is evidence of “interest politics” across the board.
6
I am a teacher in New York City of ten years and fully support what is called 'due process'.
There is this myth that teachers cannot be hired because of tenure however, this is really false. I've had colleagues leave the DOE for incompetence. I have also taught with many ATR's who were excessed by their former principal. Those teachers were fired in some case because they have over twenty years of experience, and therefore have become too expensive, so principals try anyway to dismiss them.
Last year, I taught in a cafeteria, and some teachers I know have taught in a hallway. This is public education!
Charter schools have a fast track to teaching, and are certified in a matter of weeks. They often leave after less than five years scarred and horrified by their experience.
Things have gotten worse in my expeience, and this article expresses a Bloomberg objective.
There is this myth that teachers cannot be hired because of tenure however, this is really false. I've had colleagues leave the DOE for incompetence. I have also taught with many ATR's who were excessed by their former principal. Those teachers were fired in some case because they have over twenty years of experience, and therefore have become too expensive, so principals try anyway to dismiss them.
Last year, I taught in a cafeteria, and some teachers I know have taught in a hallway. This is public education!
Charter schools have a fast track to teaching, and are certified in a matter of weeks. They often leave after less than five years scarred and horrified by their experience.
Things have gotten worse in my expeience, and this article expresses a Bloomberg objective.
7
I am a retired teacher from Virginia which is a "right to work" state, meaning there are no unions to represent us. It is unbelievable to me that poor teachers who are not hired ANYWHERE would still be paid simply because NY is a union state. In Virginia, teachers are evaluated anytime an administrator wants to come sit in your classroom. Never would I come to school unprepared! Here, teachers who do not perform after getting help etc...are shown the door.
9
Can't they have these teachers make copies, grade papers, do something under supervision such work as teachers' aides?
7
I am sick of reading such dribble and rhetoric. Yes, these teachers are being forced on schools, that is true. But they are being forced into classrooms that otherwise would not have a teacher. Even if this teacher were not the best, they will still be better than none at all. But the Absent Teacher Reserve was created because of the closing of schools. If a school as a whole is doing poorly, the Bloomberg administration closed the schools and put every teacher into the ATR. Some people have trouble finding jobs just because of where they taught, not based on the quality of their teaching. Also, some of the poor ratings came from the fact that the school they were trying to make a difference in was so poor which is why it was closed in the first place. Some there that faced disciplinary action are still teachers because their behavior wasn't bad enough to warrant termination, as in it was decided by an arbitrator that they deserved a second chance, but they were given a poor rating as a consequence and have not had an opportunity yet to turn it around.
5
This is a very fraught topic and--possibly--a very biased essay. Nonetheless, as someone who has spent a lifetime in education--both in the classroom and the administration--I've come to identify three interrelated factors that bedevil efforts in the US to improve K-12 education:
--Education programs attract marginal students (probably because the profession is so undervalued in this country)
--Education programs lack rigor and do not expect much from students and graduates (probably because they can't expect much marginal students)
--Teacher unions just exacerbate the problems caused by the two factors above.
I can hear the fury this will raise. But I've also spent decades in the classroom able to unfailingly pick out the 'education majors' by virtue of their poor grammar and underwhelming intelligence.
--Education programs attract marginal students (probably because the profession is so undervalued in this country)
--Education programs lack rigor and do not expect much from students and graduates (probably because they can't expect much marginal students)
--Teacher unions just exacerbate the problems caused by the two factors above.
I can hear the fury this will raise. But I've also spent decades in the classroom able to unfailingly pick out the 'education majors' by virtue of their poor grammar and underwhelming intelligence.
6
THE WRITER'S CONCERNS AND CRITIQUE Are spot on. But not all teachers against whom legal cases have been brought, who end up in teacher limbo, have been shown to be inadequate. I have a friend who had to take the arm of a 5th grade girl who refused to leave the classroom so he could walk the rest of the class down the stairs. By the time he reached the first floor, the student was complaining that he had attacked her physically and demanded that the police be called. Fortunately, his wife is an attorney who helped in his defense. He's had a distinguished teaching career since that time, including one in Israel where he currently lives. Yes, there are some ineffective teachers who just can't make the grade. But the writer forgot to mention whether the personnel department had been directed to test more job applicants for existing vacancies. If there aren't teachers screened for hiring, then the other choice would be to hire teachers through temp agencies. Hardly a foolproof method. Has NYC increased the number of kids who want to Teach For America? Has it begun its own in-house program like Teach For America? If not, what would happen without teachers in those classrooms is that other teachers would have to substitute, changing with every period of the instructional day. There are other structural challenges beyond hiring effective teachers.
1
Like many other commentators, I also taught in NYC school and am a UFT member. Sternberg's argument is sound, regardless of his current or past affiliations. It is not union busting to point out that some teachers do a disservice to their students and, therefore, to society as a whole. Bad apples do not belong in the classroom, and all other points are peripheral. I support the UFT in its role of bargaining for wages and working conditions. to the extent that they blindly support bad teachers, they are making a gift to charter school proponents. Bad teachers are far from the only problem, but they are most definitely part of it. I can't believe that the UFT and many of its members continue equate legitimate criticisms of genuinely unfit teachers with union busting. It's the persistence of such teachers in the system - both in the ATR and the classroom - that fuel union busting. It's cause and effect. Deal with it constructively.
5
Teachers unions, like all unions, exist to advocate for their members. Period. Students may benefit or not from the union's actions, but this is not a priority for the union. If we are paying truly incompetent or unfit teachers, the mayor and other civic leaders should act to remedy this outside of the classroom. Public accountability is their responsibility, and students are members of the public.
3
The greatest harm my teacher's union does to our kids, to my dedicated fellow educators and to the union's foundational cause of supporting both is to knee-jerkingly defend my incompetent peers.
Ours should be the loudest voice advocating for a just system that would rid our ranks of the the worst amongst us. Instead, our reflexive stance is to attack anyone who shines a light on this issue without acknowledging the truths their light reveals.
The resulting loss of credibility cedes large swaths of the moral high ground we need to take our rightful place as the city's best advocates for sound, inspiring pedagogy.
Ironically this defensive stance also undermines our efforts to get better working conditions, better pay, and to make our schools a better place for kids to learn.
Ours should be the loudest voice advocating for a just system that would rid our ranks of the the worst amongst us. Instead, our reflexive stance is to attack anyone who shines a light on this issue without acknowledging the truths their light reveals.
The resulting loss of credibility cedes large swaths of the moral high ground we need to take our rightful place as the city's best advocates for sound, inspiring pedagogy.
Ironically this defensive stance also undermines our efforts to get better working conditions, better pay, and to make our schools a better place for kids to learn.
8
1. It's not THAT hard to get rid of a bad teacher, even if the teacher has tenure. All the administrator has to do is consistently document the teacher's shortcomings.
2. In fact, it's quite feasible to create a paper trail of documentation to make a good teacher look bad. Just observe the teacher's class and focus on everything that is less than perfect. Focus on the one student with his or her head down and don't mention the all the other students who are engaged in the lesson. Whatever aspect of the curriculum is emphasized during the lesson, write up an observation arguing that another aspect of the curriculum should have been emphasized. If the lesson focuses on a Socratic discussion, argue that direct instruction would have been more effective (or vice versa). With true malice and no conscience, an administrator can get away with virtually anything!
3. It's also quite feasible to harass a teacher into quitting without documenting anything. Never have the teacher's back when an issue comes up regarding student discipline or academic dishonesty, no matter how egregious the offense. Withhold supplies, textbooks, and technical support. Make the teacher a "floater" who has to dash from one end of the building to the other the livelong day. Again, the possibilities are endless!
If tenured teachers are not fired it generally means either a) the administrators involved are quite lazy and/or incompetent or b) the teacher is actually doing a decent job.
2. In fact, it's quite feasible to create a paper trail of documentation to make a good teacher look bad. Just observe the teacher's class and focus on everything that is less than perfect. Focus on the one student with his or her head down and don't mention the all the other students who are engaged in the lesson. Whatever aspect of the curriculum is emphasized during the lesson, write up an observation arguing that another aspect of the curriculum should have been emphasized. If the lesson focuses on a Socratic discussion, argue that direct instruction would have been more effective (or vice versa). With true malice and no conscience, an administrator can get away with virtually anything!
3. It's also quite feasible to harass a teacher into quitting without documenting anything. Never have the teacher's back when an issue comes up regarding student discipline or academic dishonesty, no matter how egregious the offense. Withhold supplies, textbooks, and technical support. Make the teacher a "floater" who has to dash from one end of the building to the other the livelong day. Again, the possibilities are endless!
If tenured teachers are not fired it generally means either a) the administrators involved are quite lazy and/or incompetent or b) the teacher is actually doing a decent job.
12
This is why public unions have been under siege and probably deserve to be.As an ex member of the Professional Employee Federation of NYS one of my great peeves was that in addition to being able to gain many tangible benefits for members, the union was compelled to protect the (few) incompetent members in its midst. The ability to protect "incompetence" was a collectively bargained
contractual right established by the union so they were'nt entirely at fault.
The Teacher's Union is doing the same it seems, but City negotiators also have responsibility for the mess I believe. Given how the Teachers Union in Wisconsin was broken down, both NYC and the Union should consider trying to rectify that part of the contract.
contractual right established by the union so they were'nt entirely at fault.
The Teacher's Union is doing the same it seems, but City negotiators also have responsibility for the mess I believe. Given how the Teachers Union in Wisconsin was broken down, both NYC and the Union should consider trying to rectify that part of the contract.
4
This story illustrates why the education reforms of Betsy Devos, the Secretary of the Department of Education, are needed and needed now to end the stranglehold teachers unions have on American public education. Unions which serve only the interests of the teacher regardless of how good or how bad they are. According to this report, the unions serve the needs of the poor teachers so that may remain employed. All of this at the expense of educating children. I am glad I do not have children in the New York Public School System.
4
This is what you get when you have a City run by Democrats for decades.
11
It's wonderful that Republicans never do anything wrong, isn't it. And I have family who worked under the opposite extreme, no protections for teachers, years ago in the rural south. One said she would lose her job if she was suspected of voting Democratic; another was fired the day after receiving a cancer diagnosis.
5
More correctly, it shows what a bad mayor can do in a very short time.
This is not a Republican/Democrat issue. There can be good Democrat mayors as well as bad.
This is not a Republican/Democrat issue. There can be good Democrat mayors as well as bad.
3
From 2001-2014, New York City was run by Mike Bloomberg, a Republican. I know it doesn't fit your narrative, or facts for that matter.
4
It seems that Marc Sternberg now represents the Charter School movement. Not an unbiased observer. Inviting him to write this opinion piece would have been like asking Cardinal Dolan tp write on the benefits and costs of communism. The Cardinal probably would have been less biased.
9
K students test equally for Gifted and Talented programs across our city yet the dearth of seats disadvantages kids of color. Rather than fix this, De Blasio wants to dismantle working schools and put in sub-par teachers. Rather than go copy feeder schools to SHSAT and actually help kids, he's just trying to dumb down entry. Stuy is 49% low income, less funding that every other full time HS in district. Same for BX Science. My kids have seen stoned subs in the front of the room, literally watched one carried out on a stretcher into an ambulance. Teachers saying "Oh how cute! " when kids are making out in the halls of a middle school, ignoring one kid slapping anotherzteachers screaming "I'm going to murder this child! " at a second grader... if I've seen this with just two of my kids going through public schools how much have I missed?
4
What do you expect from Marc Sternberg who works for Sam Walton, the dean of union-busting? Most ATR teachers are there because their schools were closed down in the Bloomberg-Klein frenzy of so-called closing"failing schools" in the service of charterizing. As for gettng a new teacher placement on the alleged "open market" everyone knows it's ridden with favoritism and nepotism.
Let ATRS teach!
Marjorie Stamberg, UFT Delegate, District 79, NYC Department of Education
Let ATRS teach!
Marjorie Stamberg, UFT Delegate, District 79, NYC Department of Education
15
de Blasio should not be the executive of anything.
Worst NY mayor of our generation.
Worst NY mayor of our generation.
10
Not all the teachers in the ATR pool are bad teachers. I have known teachers sent to the pool who were excellent teachers but had problems with the principal. Take the "make up" work to pass a student. Is it right to give a student a credit for history be making them watch "historical" movies for 3 days during break for just signing in? Is it right to pass a student because he handed in a packet of work that you were not supposed to grade? Is it right to have the students fill out surveys in class while coaching them what to answer? Is it right to forge the teacher's signature to change a grade from "failing" to "passing"? Cross some principals about the ethics of this and they put you on the ATR list, especially if you have tenure or are making a higher salary. One teacher told me that the principal told her that I can make up things to get rid of you and everyone will take my word over yours; so you'd better play ball.
16
About those teacher ratings, does it bother anyone that the public have no idea what algorithm(s) is/are being used. it amazes me that managers like the author of this piece are willing to just swallow these ratings hook, line and sinker without pausing for a minute to really understand how those numbers are derived from big data that has been shown to be full of biases.
I believe most rational citizens will agree that if certain teachers are out of a job for a period of time they should stop drawing checks from tax payers. but the author offers no solutions as to how NYC should fill vacancies that apparently no one wants to sign up for. it is unfair to cast reserve teachers in such bad light when only a minority have a history of serious infractions that should bar them from holding any position in the public school system.
the way I see it, NYC is better off hiring people known to the school system who are already on its payroll.
Not calling anyone the devil here but like the saying goes "the devil you know is sometimes better than the angel you don't know".
please help relieve efforts for Harvey and Irma
cnn.com/impact
I believe most rational citizens will agree that if certain teachers are out of a job for a period of time they should stop drawing checks from tax payers. but the author offers no solutions as to how NYC should fill vacancies that apparently no one wants to sign up for. it is unfair to cast reserve teachers in such bad light when only a minority have a history of serious infractions that should bar them from holding any position in the public school system.
the way I see it, NYC is better off hiring people known to the school system who are already on its payroll.
Not calling anyone the devil here but like the saying goes "the devil you know is sometimes better than the angel you don't know".
please help relieve efforts for Harvey and Irma
cnn.com/impact
4
Ah, another school year begins another attack on public education. In this case, the NYT decides to give a voice to Marc Sternberg of the Walton Foundation. You know them, the billion dollar Walmart lobby, buying politicians in order to break public education and turn it into charter Walmart. Well, in this case we get the shaming of a politician in order to break unions and public education for the oligarchy. If The Times really needs to engage in this sort of thing, I really wish they would just be honest and make Walmart pay for a page with a banner informing the reader that this is corporate advertising. Must be great to be a teacher these days.
20
US public "education" (EdBiz) does not need to be "attacked."
It does a pretty good job of demeaning itself:
Just look at the graduates it produces, and compare them with graduates in other countries that spend far less per pupil than this country.
Are you ashamed enough to do something for the victims of this well-oiled scam: Your daughters and sons ?
It does a pretty good job of demeaning itself:
Just look at the graduates it produces, and compare them with graduates in other countries that spend far less per pupil than this country.
Are you ashamed enough to do something for the victims of this well-oiled scam: Your daughters and sons ?
3
Where did you get those "facts"? Betsy DeVos? Carl Icahn, Eli Broad, Bill Gates, the Waltons? This "well-oiled scam" is a variant of the same warmed over "rubber-room" story that the NY Post has been printing for years. Instead of focusing on the vast exception to the rule, why do you think it is that we never read about how much good is being produced by school teachers and how much poverty, demographics, and politics impact what's bad? Perhaps you'd discover the real villains?
4
Bad teachers, bad cops, bad prison guards, bad firefighters... the Democrats have made it so you can't fire any of these public servants. And ironically, the people who get hurt the most by these bad policies, minorities, keep voting for Democrats. How ironic?
6
Wow -- you wrapped up more assumptions, arrogance, and complete ignorance in one sentence than even trump manages. I assume you believe that everyone who works in a for-profit company pulls their weight all the time?
7
If you think GOP is no different than you're ignoring facts. The largest police union in the country (the Fraternal Order of Police) endorsed Trump - an endorsement he aggressively courted. The IAFF (largest firefighters union) refused to endorse Hillary and polling indicates that their members voted for Trump 2 to 1 over Hillary. The head of the Correction Officers' Benevolent Association endorsed Trump. So of the 4 occupations you mention the largest unions for 3 of them supported the GOP in this last election. Those are facts, not opinions. Trump also aggressively went after support from manufacturing unions during the election.
One final fact for you: Ronald Reagan, probably the greatest GOP President since WW2, was a former labor union leader! Again, that is an absolute fact.
One final fact for you: Ronald Reagan, probably the greatest GOP President since WW2, was a former labor union leader! Again, that is an absolute fact.
5
Are we dong right by the students by bringing these teachers back to teach?
If these teachers have bad records, why don't they get pushed out?
Is the Teacher's Union stronger than the Mayor?
What gives?
If these teachers have bad records, why don't they get pushed out?
Is the Teacher's Union stronger than the Mayor?
What gives?
4
Maybe lazy or incompetent administrators can't bring themselves to adequately document teacher shortcomings that would lead to firing that teacher.
And bear in mind that for the majority of his brief career in public education, Marc Sternberg was an administrator, not a teacher.
And bear in mind that for the majority of his brief career in public education, Marc Sternberg was an administrator, not a teacher.
2
As a teacher and administrator for 35 years, I agree with Mr. Sternberg that putting adults with a teaching license but no intellectual skills or the ability to interact with students in a positive and motivating manner is a recipe for disaster. We need to look at the question as to why this is taking place. What is it about the teaching profession that it does not attract enough qualified individuals? Is the manner in which the country organizes its educational system ( late August-June, summers off ) an issue? Does a person need a teaching license to teach? As long as background checks are satisfactory and the principal likes the candidate, should we hire such a person?
The problem is that kids need a good teacher and supervision when they are housed in a building for 7 hours a day.
The problem is that kids need a good teacher and supervision when they are housed in a building for 7 hours a day.
3
Teaching has become a miserable job. After many years in the private technology sector, I went back to school with the intention of becoming a teacher as I was burned out by working tech. The 6 months I did as a student teacher were the most soul crushing, miserable I had ever experienced. From unrealistic expectations, laughable pay, badly behaved kids whose parents seemed to have relinquished parenting to the teacher, highly politicized and incompetent administration and non-stop testing and evaluation, it is a miracle anybody want to still be a teacher. Needless to say, if I am going to be mistreated and miserable might as well do it for a non-poverty level salary so went back to tech. Want good,professional, competent teachers? Then start treating them as such
And all of you critizing teachers, go ahead, try to be a teacher for a month and then criticize. Easy to "know" what a teacher should be from the couch.
And all of you critizing teachers, go ahead, try to be a teacher for a month and then criticize. Easy to "know" what a teacher should be from the couch.
4
The author works for Walmart, a huge player in funding the educational privatization movement. Please read the Washington Post article on Walmart and their goal of funding charter schools. Very informative.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/03/17/the-walma...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/03/17/the-walma...
16
I hear that fully half of New York's teachers are rated below the fiftieth percentile in their performance! Shocking!
9
"The city is in this position because the union contract makes dismissing teachers a virtual impossibility. A result is that taxpayers spend more than $150 million a year to pay them not to teach. Given the alternative, though, it’s money well spent."
I could only find "union" mentioned once. It's because of the union that taxpayers must pay $150 million a year to these bad teachers. And it's "money well spent"? Are you joking? How many school lunches would that buy for poor children? How many good teachers could get raises?
You've been drinking the union Kool-aid, and you should be ashamed.
I could only find "union" mentioned once. It's because of the union that taxpayers must pay $150 million a year to these bad teachers. And it's "money well spent"? Are you joking? How many school lunches would that buy for poor children? How many good teachers could get raises?
You've been drinking the union Kool-aid, and you should be ashamed.
5
OCEAN: You seem to be confusing the ATR with the notorious 'rubber room.'
The Rubber Room is back, and costing an additional $75 million a year to the NY taxpayer, thanks to the teacher's union making it impossible to fire anyone. I'm not "confusing", I've got a calculator. I'm adding.
1
It's well-spent, because better that they not be in touch with students. The teachers there are a disaster, but the union will not let them be fired. DeBlasio is owned by the teachers' union.
1
Lots of assertions about the purportedly bad teachers, but not a lick of evidence. Readers who haven't yet done so should read the recent NYT story on charters. Then read Weapons of Math Destruction for a better sense of the fraudulent denigration of public schools.
9
"fraudelent denigration" ?
"not a lick of evidence" ?
As one who has been meeting the products of public education (EdBiz) for decades, I have to chuckle at your cupidity.
Colleges routinely waste the first year teaching incoming first-year students stuff they should have learned in secondary holding pens.
You know, exotic stuff, such as writing a paragraph, starting a sentence with capital letters, or knowing that WWI came before WWII.
"not a lick of evidence" ?
As one who has been meeting the products of public education (EdBiz) for decades, I have to chuckle at your cupidity.
Colleges routinely waste the first year teaching incoming first-year students stuff they should have learned in secondary holding pens.
You know, exotic stuff, such as writing a paragraph, starting a sentence with capital letters, or knowing that WWI came before WWII.
2
Weapons of Math Destruction was written by Cathy O'Neil, a Wall Street failure who created this as her revenge book.
I taught in the NYC system back in the 70s and then, as now, the teachers’ union was an abomination. The union leaders put themselves and the union first and the teachers second. Student needs were an afterthought at best.
Union meetings were a joke with the union bigwigs treating the teachers like annoying dummies.
The worst teachers walked around with their little contract books and filed grievances for the most insignificant reasons, while blatantly violating serious contractual duties, knowing the union would back them regardless of how wrong or bad they were.
The union corrupted system made teachers who did their jobs feel like suckers.
I worked with a number of hard working, dedicated, committed teachers who, when I visited them a few years after I left, got tired of carrying most of the weight and turned into retirement day counters.
Union meetings were a joke with the union bigwigs treating the teachers like annoying dummies.
The worst teachers walked around with their little contract books and filed grievances for the most insignificant reasons, while blatantly violating serious contractual duties, knowing the union would back them regardless of how wrong or bad they were.
The union corrupted system made teachers who did their jobs feel like suckers.
I worked with a number of hard working, dedicated, committed teachers who, when I visited them a few years after I left, got tired of carrying most of the weight and turned into retirement day counters.
10
What a terrible system between the Union and the City. The Union should be disbanded due to the requirement of keeping unsatisfactory teachers and for the city to agreeing to pay for these teachers. Most importantly, the craziest Executive Level decision is for the Mayor to force these teachers back in class.
The children ,again, are the individuals that suffer for poor management decisions.
The children ,again, are the individuals that suffer for poor management decisions.
4
ROGER: Most of the teachers in the ATR pool are there because their experience (which translates into salary) was too high for a school with a declining budget and so they were replace (under a scheme designed by Bloomberg) by new, inexperienced less costly teachers.
If they had been bad teachers, they would have been brought up on charges and fired. Tenure guarantees a teachers a hearing, not a job.
If they had been bad teachers, they would have been brought up on charges and fired. Tenure guarantees a teachers a hearing, not a job.
5
Roger, ever hear of collective bargaining? The school system and the union have AGREED on the terms of the contract, including the very real process that is used to discipline, remove, and fire tenured teachers.
If the school system's top administration finds aspects of the contract unpalatable, they can refuse to agree. In New York, the Taylor Law makes it illegal for public unions to strike.
Because of that, the Bloomberg Administration refused to negotiate ANY union contracts for the entirety of his third term, leaving the mess to de Blasio.
Under the Taylor Law, if a public union strikes, the union leaders are jailed for the duration of the strike, and union members are fined two days' pay for every day on strike, making an illegal strike very unpalatable.
In fact, one time Transport Workers Union President Mike Quill died in jail during an illegal transit strike during the Lindsay Administration.
As Dylan put it, "don't criticize what you don't understand."
If the school system's top administration finds aspects of the contract unpalatable, they can refuse to agree. In New York, the Taylor Law makes it illegal for public unions to strike.
Because of that, the Bloomberg Administration refused to negotiate ANY union contracts for the entirety of his third term, leaving the mess to de Blasio.
Under the Taylor Law, if a public union strikes, the union leaders are jailed for the duration of the strike, and union members are fined two days' pay for every day on strike, making an illegal strike very unpalatable.
In fact, one time Transport Workers Union President Mike Quill died in jail during an illegal transit strike during the Lindsay Administration.
As Dylan put it, "don't criticize what you don't understand."
3
This is a disgrace. That the teacher’s union is preventing incompetent teachers from being fired gives voice to those who favor abandoning public schools. The purpose of public education is to provide a good education for children. It is not a jobs program for incompetent adults – except, apparently, in NYC. I have been an ardent opponent of Betsy DeVos, however perhaps charter schools are the way to go.
Shame on the NYC teachers union. Fire the incompetent teachers. Make New York City Schools Great Again.
Shame on the NYC teachers union. Fire the incompetent teachers. Make New York City Schools Great Again.
5
CLIFF: Tenure does not guarantee a teacher a job. All tenure does is guarantee a teacher the right to a hearing if accused of incompetence or any other offense. Tenure was designed to protect teachers from harassment by principals and other supervisors. And tenure protects senior teachers from being fired just because they earn more than their replacements. Many union contracts have rules similar to tenure for the workplace to protect workers.
It's not tenure or union rules that keep mediocre incompetent teachers in the classroom. It's the inability of schools to find competent teachers to replace them. Most of the best college grads go into the more lucrative fields. Until schools start paying teachers more, they will have to accept many who are not top level.
It's not tenure or union rules that keep mediocre incompetent teachers in the classroom. It's the inability of schools to find competent teachers to replace them. Most of the best college grads go into the more lucrative fields. Until schools start paying teachers more, they will have to accept many who are not top level.
3
Cliff, teachers can, and do get fired. The union is powerless on its own to prevent teachers from being fired. In case you need edification, the parameters of the contract, including a specific procedure for terminating a tenured teacher are the direct result of collective bargaining between the union and the schools.
I am a project of the NYC public schools K-12. In the four schools I went to, including elite Stuyvesant HS, class of 1976, there was not a single administrator, zero, under the age of 50. Sternberg became a principal nine years after getting his Bachelor's degree, with two Harvard Masters', which presumably took him away from teaching in NYC for a time. He became a "senior deputy chancellor" by about age 36, and decamped for the Walton Family Foundation by the time he was 40.
All I can say is that experience matters. He never had enough experience in the classroom to achieve master teacher status, and was out of the school system entirely a decade or so before teachers typically used to begin to move into administration decades ago.
I am a project of the NYC public schools K-12. In the four schools I went to, including elite Stuyvesant HS, class of 1976, there was not a single administrator, zero, under the age of 50. Sternberg became a principal nine years after getting his Bachelor's degree, with two Harvard Masters', which presumably took him away from teaching in NYC for a time. He became a "senior deputy chancellor" by about age 36, and decamped for the Walton Family Foundation by the time he was 40.
All I can say is that experience matters. He never had enough experience in the classroom to achieve master teacher status, and was out of the school system entirely a decade or so before teachers typically used to begin to move into administration decades ago.
3
This is the "Devil's bargain" so-called minority leaders make with progressives. These self-satisfied individuals at the top of the government food chain receive their political patronage, appointments and pet programs from the Democrat establishment, and in exchange they deliver lock-step Black and Latino votes for Democrat candidates. The price, however, is that they must stand mute while teachers' unions, which are huge financial contributors to the Democrat party, run the schools for the benefit of their members and to the great disservice of the students trapped within these failing school systems.
Mayor Sandinista needs the teachers' unions for his upcoming re-election campaign. He knows his priorities. Too bad if the kids suffer.
And. as for the so-called minority leaders, forget about alt-right marches and Confederate statues. FIX THE SCHOOLS!
Mayor Sandinista needs the teachers' unions for his upcoming re-election campaign. He knows his priorities. Too bad if the kids suffer.
And. as for the so-called minority leaders, forget about alt-right marches and Confederate statues. FIX THE SCHOOLS!
4
Maybe we should stop listening to the Wall Street forces about what education should and should not be...at least until they agree to jail the bankers and thieves responsible for crashing the economy, stealing pension funds, and diverting tax dollars into their greedy private hands.
10
The online lead for this story uses the word "dregs" to describe some of the teachers. I am glad I am not one of the teachers so described. What an unnecessary insult--and not a term used by Mr. Sternberg in this article.
What inflammatory language---Can't we save the word "dregs" for some really, really, bad people? Like some of those now occupying the White House?
What inflammatory language---Can't we save the word "dregs" for some really, really, bad people? Like some of those now occupying the White House?
11
Charter Schools are knocking, let them in.
1
The author Marc Steinberg offers a limited, one-sided perspective on the question.
Readers who want to consider the other point of view should Google the Chalkbeat article, "They talk about you like you’re furniture." In brief, the city found a way to sideline the most experienced (and thus the most highly paid) teachers through the reserve program.
One must wonder, too, what Mr. Sternberg's motives are in writing this piece, given he speaks for an organization that seeks the wholesale privatization of schools, making them a for-profit venture focused firstly on making a buck.
Readers who want to consider the other point of view should Google the Chalkbeat article, "They talk about you like you’re furniture." In brief, the city found a way to sideline the most experienced (and thus the most highly paid) teachers through the reserve program.
One must wonder, too, what Mr. Sternberg's motives are in writing this piece, given he speaks for an organization that seeks the wholesale privatization of schools, making them a for-profit venture focused firstly on making a buck.
13
I wonder what would happen if the incompetent teachers were assigned to the best schools where the parents have some clout. No doubt the parents would see that those who should be fired would be fired.
7
Can't those teachers be rehabilitated? I mean, the trend in education is not to suspend problem students anymore, but to try to find ways to rehabilitate them. These teachers, like students in the old days, have been suspended. Can't the same hold true for these problem teachers as for problem students? Don't throw them out; fix them up... While it's teachers who have to find a way to turn students around, it's administrators, like you, who have to find a way to turn teachers around. Get crackin' boss. I mean, if these bad teachers are addicted to drugs or are child abusers, that's one thing. Surely you can get rid of those bad eggs. But if they're just terrible teachers, they could be salvageable--to the benefit of students, administrators, and the teachers themselves. Heck, I'm a retired teacher. I had a good reputation. For a nominal fee, I'd be glad to try my hand at teacher-rehabilitation.
Mr. Adelman: These are not bad teachers, they are teachers who have been displaced due to school closings and other budgetary concerns created by the Bloomberg administration. They have had a difficult time getting placed in other schools because their experience earns them a higher salary and the Bloomberg system made teacher salaries part of a school's budget rather than being paid for by the central administration as in the past.
In order to have more money available for other projects, principals prefer to hire new, inexpensive teachers rather than the experienced ones who cost them more.
In order to have more money available for other projects, principals prefer to hire new, inexpensive teachers rather than the experienced ones who cost them more.
7
Something about this article doesn't ring true. It's obviously one persons opinion, but it feels partisan.
6
I can't think of a single New York parent who willingly sends their children to NYC Public Schools anymore. If they have any means at all, or can borrow and beg, they try and secure a future for their kids in Charter, Parochial or Private schools.
As a result, the NYC Public School system has become a dumping ground for the poor and powerless. The union sees the system as a cow to be milked, and DeBlasio sees the union as a source of bottomless money and support.
The whole thing is shameful.
As a result, the NYC Public School system has become a dumping ground for the poor and powerless. The union sees the system as a cow to be milked, and DeBlasio sees the union as a source of bottomless money and support.
The whole thing is shameful.
1
This is really a travesty. Liberals often talk about their sympathy for the poor ... and asking for people to give the poor a path to the middle class. Well, here it is. All the data shows that giving poor kids an education is the ticket out of poverty.
Instead, De Blasio shows that he cares more about the AFT and their teachers union donations than he does about poor and minority children. "Why not take a bright red Sharpie and draw a fat circle around that $350,000 American Federation of Teachers “donation” to de Blasio’s now-defunct-but-certainly-not-forgotten Campaign for One New York slush fund — followed days later by the $9 billion contract the mayor laid on the union’s local affiliate, the United Federation of Teachers."
http://nypost.com/2017/02/09/with-uft-endorsement-de-blasio-just-raised-...
For the kids' sake, let's hope that Campbell Brown prevails in getting the courts to reform New York teacher tenure laws. When 800 teachers are just sitting in a "rubber room" often for "disciplinary or legal charges" or just because they are ineffective teachers, it shows the problem at the root of the monopolistic teachers unions. They can knock charters all they want. But if a teacher at a charter isn't pulling their weight, they are not around for long. Instead of summers off, lavish pensions and health benefits and guaranteed jobs, shouldn't NYC teachers need to perform just like the rest of us ?
Instead, De Blasio shows that he cares more about the AFT and their teachers union donations than he does about poor and minority children. "Why not take a bright red Sharpie and draw a fat circle around that $350,000 American Federation of Teachers “donation” to de Blasio’s now-defunct-but-certainly-not-forgotten Campaign for One New York slush fund — followed days later by the $9 billion contract the mayor laid on the union’s local affiliate, the United Federation of Teachers."
http://nypost.com/2017/02/09/with-uft-endorsement-de-blasio-just-raised-...
For the kids' sake, let's hope that Campbell Brown prevails in getting the courts to reform New York teacher tenure laws. When 800 teachers are just sitting in a "rubber room" often for "disciplinary or legal charges" or just because they are ineffective teachers, it shows the problem at the root of the monopolistic teachers unions. They can knock charters all they want. But if a teacher at a charter isn't pulling their weight, they are not around for long. Instead of summers off, lavish pensions and health benefits and guaranteed jobs, shouldn't NYC teachers need to perform just like the rest of us ?
4
You didn't read the article. It said teachers are not in the rubber room anymore.
1
Well, now that you've pulled out every hoary canard about teachers and the "easy" life and job they have maybe you might want to admit that your real hatred for them is motivated more by your political and ideological blinders than by knowledge of the facts.
Also, one thing you said about teachers at charters is correct; they're not around for long. But it has zero to do with how good or bad they are at teaching. Teachers at charters are generally very poorly trained, lack certification and are often right out of college, having not majored in education.
And, most importantly, they AREN'T around for long, with the average charter teacher having a tenure of LESS than two years. They usually quit given the poor pay, extremely hard working conditions and are often just making a "pit stop" before going on to their "real careers" in business, law or something else much more lucrative.
Also, one thing you said about teachers at charters is correct; they're not around for long. But it has zero to do with how good or bad they are at teaching. Teachers at charters are generally very poorly trained, lack certification and are often right out of college, having not majored in education.
And, most importantly, they AREN'T around for long, with the average charter teacher having a tenure of LESS than two years. They usually quit given the poor pay, extremely hard working conditions and are often just making a "pit stop" before going on to their "real careers" in business, law or something else much more lucrative.
3
$150 million of hard earned tax payer money frittered away to appease the powerful teachers unions. Money that could be used to strengthen public schools. And worst off the additional devastation inflicted on these children trapped in failing schools with unqualified teachers.
The teachers unions are one of the most destructive forces against poor and minority children and equity in our society. Shame of them and their supporters and enablers!!!
The teachers unions are one of the most destructive forces against poor and minority children and equity in our society. Shame of them and their supporters and enablers!!!
4
So you could pick all your teachers at your school in the Bronx and you think that's leadership. Really? What are they teaching you at the Leadership Academy anyway. That's not how it works. Real leadership is to take the team you have and work with them so they grow and improve. That's what real managers do as well as the military. Sure you may have a few bad folks and you need to transition them out. It's done all the time but it is work.
In regard to the UFT; now why do you think there is a union? They're just doing their job. That's why teachers pay union dues as you did as part of the Principal's union.
Now you point out that these bad teachers go to the bad schools. Well that's an opportunity for the Chancellor to demonstrate leadership and have them improve their craft at a specialized/selective school instead of being relegated to the struggling schools.
Finally PS6 is located in one of the wealthiest zip codes in America (as it was when the Chancellor was the Principal). I would be far more impressed if the Chancellor showed similar results in say, a non-selective school, in the South Bronx back in the 1990's.
Yes all students deserve great teachers and good leadership should be able to create them instead of complaining.
In regard to the UFT; now why do you think there is a union? They're just doing their job. That's why teachers pay union dues as you did as part of the Principal's union.
Now you point out that these bad teachers go to the bad schools. Well that's an opportunity for the Chancellor to demonstrate leadership and have them improve their craft at a specialized/selective school instead of being relegated to the struggling schools.
Finally PS6 is located in one of the wealthiest zip codes in America (as it was when the Chancellor was the Principal). I would be far more impressed if the Chancellor showed similar results in say, a non-selective school, in the South Bronx back in the 1990's.
Yes all students deserve great teachers and good leadership should be able to create them instead of complaining.
4
In order to have a staff of highly successful teachers, school systems have to offer a salary/benefits package which will attract enough QUALITY applicants to fill every position. What they are currently offering is obviously not enough or droves of top college grads would be fighting to get into teaching the way they do for the high-paying occupations. If schools districts want the best, they have to pay the best. That's the marketplace.
3
"Marc Sternberg, the director of K-12 education for the Walton Family Foundation, was a deputy chancellor of the New York City Department of Education during the Bloomberg administration."
Wow! First three whole years in Teach for America! Then Deputy chancellor of the NYC Dept.of Ed. during the Bloomberg administration, which means the esteemed and highly experienced educator worked under Joel Klein, whose $10 million dollar data system blew up in his face and who then signed on to work on the quickly defunct Amplify, yet another hair-brained electronic education scheme run by Aussie enemy of public education, Rupert Murdoch. And now the Walton family's education initiative. Which know-it all billionaire employer is next? Perhaps AmWay tycoon Devos, the pollutin'' Koch Brothers, or Bannon enabler and hedge fund mogul Robert Mercer. Anyone see a pattern here? Maybe the right-wing effort to privatize education for their own economic gain?
Wow! First three whole years in Teach for America! Then Deputy chancellor of the NYC Dept.of Ed. during the Bloomberg administration, which means the esteemed and highly experienced educator worked under Joel Klein, whose $10 million dollar data system blew up in his face and who then signed on to work on the quickly defunct Amplify, yet another hair-brained electronic education scheme run by Aussie enemy of public education, Rupert Murdoch. And now the Walton family's education initiative. Which know-it all billionaire employer is next? Perhaps AmWay tycoon Devos, the pollutin'' Koch Brothers, or Bannon enabler and hedge fund mogul Robert Mercer. Anyone see a pattern here? Maybe the right-wing effort to privatize education for their own economic gain?
10
Let's not forget who the author of this op-ed is. He was one of those who after a few years of teaching became a Principal under Bloomberg's notion of that a Principal was a CEO. Sternberg would have been unable to work with teachers based on his personal experience (or more importantly lack thereof).
Sternberg then moved into the central board and destroyed several traditional high schools such as Jamaica H.S., an institution that served students in that area foe 60 years. That was his job. To butcher high schools.
Then Bloomberg came up with the bird brained idea that he could replace entire faculties of about 21 high schools or so by changing their names. Sternberg was put in charge of this program. In court, defending the removal of entire faculties he was asked how these were new schools (they were trying to use a clause in the union contract about staffing new schools). He replied these would be new schools because they would have new faculties. The fact this was circular reasoning, as the judge pointed out after the city lost in arbitration, never dawned on him; something a beginning geometry teacher would recognize as invalid reasoning. And now this man has the gall to disparage an entire group of teachers. It's people like Sternberg who have done so much to destroy the NYC school system. It's hard to take anything he says seriously.
Sternberg then moved into the central board and destroyed several traditional high schools such as Jamaica H.S., an institution that served students in that area foe 60 years. That was his job. To butcher high schools.
Then Bloomberg came up with the bird brained idea that he could replace entire faculties of about 21 high schools or so by changing their names. Sternberg was put in charge of this program. In court, defending the removal of entire faculties he was asked how these were new schools (they were trying to use a clause in the union contract about staffing new schools). He replied these would be new schools because they would have new faculties. The fact this was circular reasoning, as the judge pointed out after the city lost in arbitration, never dawned on him; something a beginning geometry teacher would recognize as invalid reasoning. And now this man has the gall to disparage an entire group of teachers. It's people like Sternberg who have done so much to destroy the NYC school system. It's hard to take anything he says seriously.
10
Wow! The New York Times should have put Mr. Sternberg's background and qualifications on top, not at the bottom, of this article.
Until we have quality universal public education with respected and well paid teachers, we will continue to feed the kleptocratic model that increases income inequality and provides little or no support to students trying to excel to get ahead.
This doesn't mean giving public funds to get rich quick private enterprise and wealthy parents who want to prevent their kids from sharing a level playing field.
Until we have quality universal public education with respected and well paid teachers, we will continue to feed the kleptocratic model that increases income inequality and provides little or no support to students trying to excel to get ahead.
This doesn't mean giving public funds to get rich quick private enterprise and wealthy parents who want to prevent their kids from sharing a level playing field.
23
What a surprise--the Walton Foundation is bashing teachers and unions! Looking for some more taxpayer funds for charter schools, are we?
It SHOULD be hard to fire teachers, especially those who have effectively taught and earned tenure. Otherwise, districts and principals with bad intentions would fire teachers without cause. Does this teacher make too much money? Fired. Does this teacher criticize a textbook because it's racist? Fired. Is this teacher too strong in the union? Fired. Does this teacher refuse to comply with a hurtful discipline policy? Fired. I've had 5 principals in 7 years of teaching, and the quality of their administration was no better or worse than the quality of the teachers. Seniority is an additional safeguard against these short-sighted policies and administrations who want to force an agenda.
And bad teachers do--or at least can--be fired. Katherine Cagle's comment is spot on--a good administrator knows how to observe, support, and ultimately fire a bad teacher. I've seen it happen many times in a unionized district, but it took a competent administrator. Maybe that's where we should be looking. But please Mr. Sternberg, stay out of my government school, because our teachers are amazing. And keep your hands off our taxpayer money.
It SHOULD be hard to fire teachers, especially those who have effectively taught and earned tenure. Otherwise, districts and principals with bad intentions would fire teachers without cause. Does this teacher make too much money? Fired. Does this teacher criticize a textbook because it's racist? Fired. Is this teacher too strong in the union? Fired. Does this teacher refuse to comply with a hurtful discipline policy? Fired. I've had 5 principals in 7 years of teaching, and the quality of their administration was no better or worse than the quality of the teachers. Seniority is an additional safeguard against these short-sighted policies and administrations who want to force an agenda.
And bad teachers do--or at least can--be fired. Katherine Cagle's comment is spot on--a good administrator knows how to observe, support, and ultimately fire a bad teacher. I've seen it happen many times in a unionized district, but it took a competent administrator. Maybe that's where we should be looking. But please Mr. Sternberg, stay out of my government school, because our teachers are amazing. And keep your hands off our taxpayer money.
15
Some of those teachers have recent felony convictions, some are pedophiles - yet NYC cannot fire them. There was a story 2-3 years ago about 3 of them being in prison and still drawing paychecks. Is that really what you want?
2
If someone cannot get a job for five years, at any school, does that not suggest that it is something other than a biased principal at the base of the situation? I did not see someone advocating quickly disposing of teachers - a five-year test seems more than fair. No one else gets that!
I am not surprised to see that you are a teacher. Perhaps a teacher with difficulty getting along with management? In any event, what makes teachers different from so many others - we all run the risk of a boss we don't get along with; that may mean that you need to get a new job (that's part of not being the boss), as the rest of us need to do from time to time. If you are fired, there should be an appeals process - if you lose the appeal, you should be out of a job. Period. (That's actually already much more than most of us get.)
And if someone can't get a job after five years of trying, in a school system crying for teachers - that tells you something. They do not belong in the system, and they should not be getting paid. $150 million for idle teachers - in a city with so many needs. That is outrageous. Forcing a teacher that is unacceptable for FIVE YEARS on vulnerable students; that is outrageous. Defending teachers with poor ratings in a system where more than 90% are rated highly - that is indefensible.
The system does not exist for the benefit of the teachers; it is for the students.
I am not surprised to see that you are a teacher. Perhaps a teacher with difficulty getting along with management? In any event, what makes teachers different from so many others - we all run the risk of a boss we don't get along with; that may mean that you need to get a new job (that's part of not being the boss), as the rest of us need to do from time to time. If you are fired, there should be an appeals process - if you lose the appeal, you should be out of a job. Period. (That's actually already much more than most of us get.)
And if someone can't get a job after five years of trying, in a school system crying for teachers - that tells you something. They do not belong in the system, and they should not be getting paid. $150 million for idle teachers - in a city with so many needs. That is outrageous. Forcing a teacher that is unacceptable for FIVE YEARS on vulnerable students; that is outrageous. Defending teachers with poor ratings in a system where more than 90% are rated highly - that is indefensible.
The system does not exist for the benefit of the teachers; it is for the students.
1
American public schools (and many private schools) are mostly indoctrination centers that teach children pseudoscientific ideas like equality, or socially negative things like empathy over reason.
So for all the problems related to charter schools, they are still a better alternative. This is especially true for young minorities, who would stand to lose if they were brought up under white liberal (see: backwards) ideas. Worries about "racism", although irrelevant on its face, can be addressed by having more minorities in charter schools, thereby creating non-white tribal forces on behalf of those minorities that can extend after graduation into the world of employment.
So for all the problems related to charter schools, they are still a better alternative. This is especially true for young minorities, who would stand to lose if they were brought up under white liberal (see: backwards) ideas. Worries about "racism", although irrelevant on its face, can be addressed by having more minorities in charter schools, thereby creating non-white tribal forces on behalf of those minorities that can extend after graduation into the world of employment.
2
What's wrong with teaching equality? Empathy and sympathy are important to learn. These traits are important in business.
1
I'm pro union.
Except for teachers. Just look at the flood of attacks on this op ed from union members and allies.
We should never seek to have such a situation exist when the well-being of children is at stake.
None of the attacking comments have any positive ideas, or address the substance of the problem.
Since this will fall on the backs of poor children of color I say their position is racist in impact.
Except for teachers. Just look at the flood of attacks on this op ed from union members and allies.
We should never seek to have such a situation exist when the well-being of children is at stake.
None of the attacking comments have any positive ideas, or address the substance of the problem.
Since this will fall on the backs of poor children of color I say their position is racist in impact.
7
The teachers unions are one of the worst things to ever happen to NYC schools, but they are so powerful nobody seems able to control them.
2
This writer works for the Walton family. They have made union busting an art form. What side did you think he would take? His affiliation with the family who gets more government assistance so they can get wealthier at the expense of their employees and taxpayers invalidates any argument he has about how anyone does business. Sorry they are the bad apples ruining the country for the rest of us. Principals will weed out the few bad apples in the education system.
8
This op-ed reads like a diatribe. No employee is beyond redemption and they should just look at them on a case by case basis and re-train those who were somehow substandard. When I was doing substitute teaching the unruliness of the students was more of a problem than teacher misbehavior. A traditional, conscientious teacher could easily fall into the "bad" teacher category through malicious or dishonest reports by problem students or others who just didn't like a teacher's forthrightness.
7
This is one of those teachers that you want to rehab, and could not be fired. http://nypost.com/2014/05/13/hundreds-have-contacted-fbi-in-case-of-pedo...
2
It is possible that no one is BEYOND redemption, but there are plenty who resist it - particularly if offered an iron-clad job.
I said it above, so I'll say it more briefly here - but if someone can't get a job at any school in the school system for five years, that is a pretty good sign they need to go.
I said it above, so I'll say it more briefly here - but if someone can't get a job at any school in the school system for five years, that is a pretty good sign they need to go.
1
"No employeebis beuond redemption" is utter nonsense. Yes some do need some help or perhaps better training but some people no matter what will not have the skills,, aptitude or attitude to succeed in a given profession. Some will also engage in serious misconduct for which termination is the only proper remedy.
1
$150,000,000 divided by 800 = $187,500. These people in the reserve pool are getting paid that much to do nothing, not even search for a job?
6
It's my understanding that they have been doing work. For some insane reason, though, they've been forced to move to a new school every month.
Interesting. The Editorial Board of The New York Times just endorsed Mayor de Blasio for a second term. The "most qualified" was the term for the incumbent, as I recall.
With the support of The Times, Mayor Bill will probably win in a landslide. Well, with a resounding 20% turnout of registered NYC voters, maybe landslide is a bit of a stretch.
With the support of The Times, Mayor Bill will probably win in a landslide. Well, with a resounding 20% turnout of registered NYC voters, maybe landslide is a bit of a stretch.
2
He may be the "most qualified" and still be incompetent. The field of candidates this season is depressingly unimpressive.
Assign these teachers to the city's elite schools - PS6, Bronx High School of Science, Brooklyn Tech, etc. Perhaps their teaching skills would improve with the right role models and close supervision.
3
Having stronger students usually makes you look like a "skilled" teacher. Putting a teacher from one of the schools you list in a "failing" school might very well make that teacher seem "unskilled."
2
As depressingly described, teacher labor unions and/or "professional teacher guilds" are a great hindrance to adaptive change & progress.
I am a moderate Democrat, and my wife is a retired teacher. She is a Hillary Democrat too, plus in the largest professional associations in this State GAE) and nation (NEA).
Of course, benefits and salaries are active teacher priorities--duh.
Imho, we all pretty much understand the multiple problems, including often insurmountable challenges and the usual myriad negativities, inherent contradictions.
She was much anti-charter schools, as I recall, though now not!
Trump's Secretary of Education is gung ho charter, but APPARENTLY lacks teaching experiences and even degrees in education, which aren't unimportant
In other words, as the principal's op ed indicates to me, contemporary reality is the ordinary mish-mosh, and reforms often seem futile--one step forward/one step backward (and worse).
NYC has a mess, though who doesn't?
Example, clarifies this note's frustrated postulations a little bit:
"Whole Language" was apparently over-sold to her school board, while she semi-openly stood by traditional phonics, and was chosen teacher of the year in her school.
I presume most
She was
I am a moderate Democrat, and my wife is a retired teacher. She is a Hillary Democrat too, plus in the largest professional associations in this State GAE) and nation (NEA).
Of course, benefits and salaries are active teacher priorities--duh.
Imho, we all pretty much understand the multiple problems, including often insurmountable challenges and the usual myriad negativities, inherent contradictions.
She was much anti-charter schools, as I recall, though now not!
Trump's Secretary of Education is gung ho charter, but APPARENTLY lacks teaching experiences and even degrees in education, which aren't unimportant
In other words, as the principal's op ed indicates to me, contemporary reality is the ordinary mish-mosh, and reforms often seem futile--one step forward/one step backward (and worse).
NYC has a mess, though who doesn't?
Example, clarifies this note's frustrated postulations a little bit:
"Whole Language" was apparently over-sold to her school board, while she semi-openly stood by traditional phonics, and was chosen teacher of the year in her school.
I presume most
She was
1
Notice how articles of this nature bring out the haters of organized labor. If there are any two things that almost all conservatives agree upon, it's a hatred of 1) anything "public" and 2) anything "union." It's a pretty sickening spectacle to read some of this bile.
Look, I've never belonged to any type of union nor has any member of my immediate or extended family. Nor have any of us ever been a teacher.
But this nonsense about "unions being to blame" is a hoary, mendacious cliche that has simply proven itself not to be true.
The five states that have outlawed teachers unions---Virginia, Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia---are, with the exception of Virginia which benefits by its strong suburban middle class in the greater Washington D.C. area---at or near the very bottom of the heap in terms of all indicators. They usually fall between 45 and 50 in most categories.
What are the BEST states for education, year after year? New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Wisconsin and others where unions have a VERY strong presence.
I would hope that people posting here stick to what is factual before posting more vicious and unfounded attacks on our teachers---the people who teach 90% of our nation's children and who deserve better than this ignorant vilification.
Look, I've never belonged to any type of union nor has any member of my immediate or extended family. Nor have any of us ever been a teacher.
But this nonsense about "unions being to blame" is a hoary, mendacious cliche that has simply proven itself not to be true.
The five states that have outlawed teachers unions---Virginia, Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia---are, with the exception of Virginia which benefits by its strong suburban middle class in the greater Washington D.C. area---at or near the very bottom of the heap in terms of all indicators. They usually fall between 45 and 50 in most categories.
What are the BEST states for education, year after year? New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Wisconsin and others where unions have a VERY strong presence.
I would hope that people posting here stick to what is factual before posting more vicious and unfounded attacks on our teachers---the people who teach 90% of our nation's children and who deserve better than this ignorant vilification.
7
It may not be unions generally, but if the union is insisting on retaining people who cannot find one school to hire them in five years, then yes, I blame the union.
1
Note to the Teacher's union: If the union doesn't find a way to weed out poorly performing teachers then it will find itself open to attack by Walmart and its hired agents, like Mr. Sternberg. Get in front of this issue and solve the problem instead of just circling the wagons. Take a history lesson from the taxi industry/Uber and address shortcomings before Wall St. does it for you.
7
Administrators are supposed to weed them out, which they can easily do if they just create a paper trail.
4
I'm no fan of de Blasio, but teachers in the ATR are not necessarily bad. Too many principals wrongfully try to push out teachers, not because of their teaching performance, but rather because of ageism, the breakup of large schools under previous administrations, or because a principal is a bully and the teacher won't take bullying. Unfortunately, principals are rarely held accountable.
38
Some of these principals are cowards and phonies, especially at charter schools.
And let's not forget the principal who wants to hire his 23 year old niece who just graduated college so he kicks out the veteran, experienced teacher he never liked much anyway. Or the principal who has disliked teachers of a certain race or ethnicity and wants to get rid of a few of them. Or the principal who hates a certain political viewpoint and decides to fire anyone with those opinions.
Or the principal who decides to "take a little revenge" on that teacher who has consistently turned down his invitations to have a "quiet, intimate dinner" with him this weekend.
All of the above, and more, is possible in a system where unionized teachers have no protection against such outrageous abuses of power and where they can be hired or fired on the whim of someone who just feels like pushing people around for the "fun" of it.
Or the principal who decides to "take a little revenge" on that teacher who has consistently turned down his invitations to have a "quiet, intimate dinner" with him this weekend.
All of the above, and more, is possible in a system where unionized teachers have no protection against such outrageous abuses of power and where they can be hired or fired on the whim of someone who just feels like pushing people around for the "fun" of it.
4
For those hose arguing that these teachers were merely victims capricious principals, or Bloomberg.... why then have some of them been out of a job for years? Surely another school would have given these apperantly star educators a chance. But none did.
And the mayor is now forcing every, single, one of them back into classes. The lack of discernment speaks volumes about the political motivations of DeBlasio, just before the next mayoral election. The union support was more important than the kids.
And the mayor is now forcing every, single, one of them back into classes. The lack of discernment speaks volumes about the political motivations of DeBlasio, just before the next mayoral election. The union support was more important than the kids.
3
Teachers without specific classroom assignments should be used off-hours, online to assist children with their homework evening assignments. This will help parents/children structure their evening study times. The online teacher can coordinate findings and feedback with the assigned daytime teacher.
3
"...an incredible 25 percent of reserve pool teachers have been getting paid for five years."
Incredible indeed.
Kids don't vote. Teachers do, and they usually vote the way the union tells them to vote. Bill wants votes. The kids? Well...
Incredible indeed.
Kids don't vote. Teachers do, and they usually vote the way the union tells them to vote. Bill wants votes. The kids? Well...
3
On Labor Day we honor the heroes of the labor movement who gave workers decent working and living conditions. Those founders would be horrified at what unions have turn into: protectors of the incompetent, in a mutual corruption pact with elected officials..
2
Ah, yes, "director of K-12 education" for Walmart, I mean, Walton Family Foundation,part of the movement to privatize all of public education. No conflict there. Why are you no longer improving lives as a principal or classroom teacher? So, you say that you could make mistakes as a principal but could not allow horrible teachers to teach? I agree, that "bad" teachers should not teach. Let's admit, however, that it probably does not take much to label someone as a problem: too old, too independent, too much of something for the new "mavericks" in education.
1
A far greater percentage of private sector workers are equally inept at their jobs. Dell, Apple, Xfinity employees? Not to mention Postal workers? Politicians? Bus drivers? Funny teachers are usually compared to athletes in the NBA..bad analogy.
I've been exposed to more mental deficiency, lethargy and ineptitude in all these areas than the average 'bad' teacher brings. Yet we always pick on this profession.
And what's the alternative. No teaching? The (working class) kids who unfortunately get these lesser teachers should just play Xbox for the year?
How about paying teachers $150k a year as they deserve/ You'll soon have enough qualified, talented people baying for the job and these people can be sent to work elsewhere where they don't harm our youth's chances.
If I had a dollar for every smart, talented young student who said to me "I'd love to teach, but that salary..." I could fund education myself...
I've been exposed to more mental deficiency, lethargy and ineptitude in all these areas than the average 'bad' teacher brings. Yet we always pick on this profession.
And what's the alternative. No teaching? The (working class) kids who unfortunately get these lesser teachers should just play Xbox for the year?
How about paying teachers $150k a year as they deserve/ You'll soon have enough qualified, talented people baying for the job and these people can be sent to work elsewhere where they don't harm our youth's chances.
If I had a dollar for every smart, talented young student who said to me "I'd love to teach, but that salary..." I could fund education myself...
3
This is the biggest reason I am no longer a member of the Democratic Party, after 25 adult years as a registered democrat. I am now an Independent voter. Democrats rubber stamp everything teacher's unions and school districts want. In my town, developers and contractors colluded with our school district to lie to residents in order to pass bonds that will represent 4 times as large a school bond burden than anywhere in the rest of California. This will hurt seniors, renters, poor folks, folks in financial trouble. Meanwhile the school district has done nothing to increase our commercial tax base, which would alleviate the pain to home owners. And the icing on the cake- our student population size is decreasing! Hasta luego, "progressives" and Democratic Party.
1
The ability to fire poor employees is a necessity for any organization. The obtuseness of the contemporary liberal view which ignores this fact is one of the reasons I can't wholeheartedly support Democrats, even in the age of Trump.
1
Oh please. Not all Democrats believe this, and it is not a plank of the Democratic party.
Mr. Sternberg's OP-ED ought to be REQUIRED READING for Public School administrators and the elected officials to whom these professionals report throughout the USA.
"Marc Sternberg, the director of K-12 education for the Walton Family Foundation, ... Bloomberg administration."
This innocuous identification is really a big lie. Unsaid is that he is really part of the Walton Family's disgraceful attempt to privatize all public education and destroy teachers' (and ultimately ALL workers') unions, creating a vassal state of drones living at the mercy of the 1% he serves. This is an essential part of the agenda of 1%ers like Walton, Bloomberg, Gates, Eli Brod (out here in LA), the Koch Bros, and their ilk. Don't be fooled.
Sternberg's last paragraph is especially ironic since most of the teachers stuck in the ATR pool aren't being hired for the very budgetary expedience he bemoans. They're talented, experienced, well-rated educators whose salaries will bust the budgets of penny-pinching principals, (and who often don't fit the desired demographic profile, let's face it). These should be the ones working with the city's most vulnerable students, not Sternberg's preferred Scab, I mean, Teach For America volunteers with their 2 whole weeks of training.
Public ed somehow "stopped working" just when teachers began using their what power they had to advocate for a a more progressive and just society. The last 35+ years have been a nonstop attempt to denigrate them and destroy the institution. Mr. Sternberg, a cog in that pernicious movement, should have the honesty to admit as much.
This innocuous identification is really a big lie. Unsaid is that he is really part of the Walton Family's disgraceful attempt to privatize all public education and destroy teachers' (and ultimately ALL workers') unions, creating a vassal state of drones living at the mercy of the 1% he serves. This is an essential part of the agenda of 1%ers like Walton, Bloomberg, Gates, Eli Brod (out here in LA), the Koch Bros, and their ilk. Don't be fooled.
Sternberg's last paragraph is especially ironic since most of the teachers stuck in the ATR pool aren't being hired for the very budgetary expedience he bemoans. They're talented, experienced, well-rated educators whose salaries will bust the budgets of penny-pinching principals, (and who often don't fit the desired demographic profile, let's face it). These should be the ones working with the city's most vulnerable students, not Sternberg's preferred Scab, I mean, Teach For America volunteers with their 2 whole weeks of training.
Public ed somehow "stopped working" just when teachers began using their what power they had to advocate for a a more progressive and just society. The last 35+ years have been a nonstop attempt to denigrate them and destroy the institution. Mr. Sternberg, a cog in that pernicious movement, should have the honesty to admit as much.
1
I have taught math in every grade from kindergarten to graduate school. I have also taught math in the Education department of one of America's leading public universities. After completely my PhD exams I spent the next 6 years teaching elementary school--2 years in essentially all black schools. During this period I trained teachers and studied educational theory. Subsequently I earned a law degree and again I taught. This time in graduate tax law programs. In all this experience I have learned one important principal: the most important characteristic of a good teacher is that she or he is smart and knows their subject matter to a very high degree. This is far more important than any pedagogical methods, techniques or anything else you can learn in any university Education Department . Frankly nobody should be licensed to teach in elementary school without an MA in a subject matter, not some empty, useless degree in 'Education'. Perhaps exceptions should be made for special
3
Terrible teachers are destructive to students, and teacher's unions play a central role in protecting all teachers at all costs, even when students suffer the most. I could describe that union priority as misguided, but looking out for union members is the primary role of the union.
3
I support unions, but I have to confess that if the NYC Teachers Union has this much power they can feather bed the school system with teachers such as those described, I do have to shake my head. I shake my head because such abuses not only bankrupt cities economically, they also bankrupt the value of unions in our country. Actually, they bankrupt the credibility of the politicians who countenance such action.
29
I'm afraid your opinions are "bankrupt." What evidence do you have that the dubious claims by Marc Sternberg---a paid shill for the Walmart family---have any basis in reality?
Do you think we should treat our teachers---the people who hold the future of our nation's children in their hands---the way Walmart treats its employees? That's the goal of the people who pay Mr. Sternberg. I don't trust them or him.
Do you think we should treat our teachers---the people who hold the future of our nation's children in their hands---the way Walmart treats its employees? That's the goal of the people who pay Mr. Sternberg. I don't trust them or him.
2
As someone who labored in the schools in New York for more than three decades as both a teacher as an administrator, I am amused when principal's bemoan "bad" teachers, a useful scapegoat for administrators who are themselves something less than "great." Many ATR's that I have known are usually guilty of nothing less than standing up for a modicum of teacher independence in schools that are run like plantations; they refuse to kowtow to principals who are are usually chosen, not based on merit, but on being in good stead with the "king makers" in the hierarchy that set up dog and pony interviews that discourage truly talented veteran teachers trying to move into administration. Lazy principals blame the union for tying their hands in dismissing unsatisfactory teachers. But the true fault lies in a system that undervalues forceful teacher voices that truly defines the professional, and has abdicated the choice of school leaders to a few powerful individuals.
44
As a retired Chicago Public Schools teacher of many years who taught children of impoverished and working poor families, I feel strongly that it isn't as much that the teachers of these students lack talent and skills as it is the sheer number of students packed in each classroom. If a more fair ratio of poverty level to funding were set up -- the lower the poverty level in a neighborhood the higher the funding per student -- smaller class sizes would result. (Currently class sizes in poorer areas are often higher than in middle class neighborhoods.) I know many excellent teachers who would be very happy to teach a class of 12-15 students in an impoverished neighborhood. What a wonderful opportunity to see your students' eyes light up when exposed to a world they hadn't experienced before! Of course, security must be increased in and around these schools as well to attract successful teachers.
1
", it dawned on me the city school system was many things, including the world's largest baby-sitting service."
that is the literal truth. they should be paid baby sitting wages instead of 100k+ benefits. 12 years in the system is 84k + benefits unheard of the private sector.
by the way how many teachers do jury duty during the summer?
that is the literal truth. they should be paid baby sitting wages instead of 100k+ benefits. 12 years in the system is 84k + benefits unheard of the private sector.
by the way how many teachers do jury duty during the summer?
1
The basic problem with our Mayor is that he thinks he's progressive but is in fact anti-elitist. A progressive - like Bloomberg - has an open mind about school choice and reform. The anti elitist sides with the teachers union at all costs.
1
I taught for 12 years in NYC public schools. Most of the teachers tried their best. A significant number surrendered to cynicism and stereotype.
Are we not citizens?
Are we not citizens?
I guess that these teachers are in the "rubber room". If you go to this american life and search rubber room teachers, you will listen to the stories of the people in this situation. having taught and worked in education for many years, this was a first for me when I heard it.
2
This article sparks my interest because of my future profession. I eventually want to become a teacher and reading about how children are being pretty much forced to receive an education from "bad" teachers makes me very upset. Being in high school, I am able to understand the importance of having a teacher who is very connected to your education and their top priority being your education. Children will not be able to learn from a teacher who has no motivation, or knowledge on how to accurately teach a class. Especially in todays world, when any kids have no motivation to even come to school, they need that push coming from their teachers.
Marc Sternberg, the director of K-12 education for the Walton Family Foundation is not exactly an unbiased voice. He is paid by the family that runs Walmart---known for its abysmal labor practices, ultra-low wages and an employee handbook that actually encourages its workers to seek government assistance to provide the basics of life that their paltry Walmart income doesn't provide.
I wouldn't trust too much of what is said by this highly compromised man.
I wouldn't trust too much of what is said by this highly compromised man.
6
At what point do we factor in the quality of what shows up on the school doorstep to start the educational process as part of this immense dilemma?
Schools are social networks and often have the maturity as an adolescent clique. Many teachers like myself have found ourselves on the wrong side of the clique, blamed for problems in the school or forced out to make room for a person in the clique. The results were disheartening, to say the least, having to face hearings, defend my work. At least I had the UFT to help, then but not now. The union has been defanged. There are some bad apples, but not as many as critics like Mr. Sternberg claim. I think Mayor DeBlasio is right. Reviews and claims of mispropriety are often politically charged, and good teachers are left holding the bag. I eventually found a school that accepted me and stayed there to the end of my career with the DOE, with excellent ratings. Most teachers with these experiences would not say so. They are ashamed.
1
1 - More than half of these teachers are awaiting placement because the school that they were working in closed, not because of poor ratings.
Why shouldn't those teachers return to the classroom?
2 - Hundreds of new teachers fail to obtain tenure each year, so the statement "the union contract makes dismissing teachers a virtual impossibility" is misleading.
3 - You say "reserve-pool placements will be in schools....with teacher vacancy rates that are double or triple those of their counterparts in more affluent communities." A better question would be "Why don't teachers want to teach in those schools?"
Why shouldn't those teachers return to the classroom?
2 - Hundreds of new teachers fail to obtain tenure each year, so the statement "the union contract makes dismissing teachers a virtual impossibility" is misleading.
3 - You say "reserve-pool placements will be in schools....with teacher vacancy rates that are double or triple those of their counterparts in more affluent communities." A better question would be "Why don't teachers want to teach in those schools?"
5
Sternberg is blaming de Blasio for this problem?? Isn't this a union issue? Situations like this are exactly why so many schools struggle to maintain or achieve standards and morale--and the respect of taxpayers, parents and students. Perhaps as de Blasio generally and robustly supports unions, both are responsible for this problem--and should together negotiate to eliminate this albatross from the NYCity schools.
2
Oops - I misspoke - it seems that the writer of this column, Mr Sternberg, is still involved with education through the Walton Family Foundation. How appropriate!
WalMart has savaged downtowns, eliminating Mom & Pop stores and small businesses in towns across the country, along with the people who upheld public schools through their taxes and their presence; now Mr. Sternberg, who works for WalMart people, is on the attack against New York schools.
If Absent Teacher Reserve pool teachers are being paid, they should work, probably in the small group situations suggested earlier.
WalMart has savaged downtowns, eliminating Mom & Pop stores and small businesses in towns across the country, along with the people who upheld public schools through their taxes and their presence; now Mr. Sternberg, who works for WalMart people, is on the attack against New York schools.
If Absent Teacher Reserve pool teachers are being paid, they should work, probably in the small group situations suggested earlier.
1
Teachers Unions and the Democratic Party. Perfect together. Horrible for children.
How sad it is that so many people scream about the plight of 800,000 'children' allegedly affected by the DACA decision, but barely a peep about the countless thousands who suffer because of a union that puts its members first and our children a far second.
How sad it is that so many people scream about the plight of 800,000 'children' allegedly affected by the DACA decision, but barely a peep about the countless thousands who suffer because of a union that puts its members first and our children a far second.
2
Not sure why anyone is confused by this move, Mayor DB needs all of the union support he can get and has cut another sweetheart deal with the teachers union for their votes in the upcoming election.
2
As many other readers have pointed out, Mr. Sternberg is a union busting corporate educator so it's not surprising to hear him point at the teachers union as the biggest problem in the NYC public schools. The challenges of teaching in this system require the benefit of union representation in order to attract and maintain high quality staff. As we know many charter schools fail each year and leave thousands of needy students without competent instructors. Let's stop listening to siren call of these snake oil salesman and seek to improve the system from within.
21
The preparation for teaching should be rigorous and competitive, requiring selective admission to a post-graduate course of study like law school or med school. As part of my work-study program when I was an undergraduate, I worked in the teacher education office; and I remember professors trying to do the math to get prospective secondary-school student teachers to a 2.5 GPA in their chosen field of study, e.g., English, math, etc. That doesn't set the bar very high. (And speaking of bars and high, I would also see those same student teachers dragging themselves out of bed after a night of partying to teach in the morning.) Make teaching a profession that inspires respect and admiration.
12
My science teacher spouse has two Bachelor's degrees, including a degree in Biology from a highly selective institution and she worked as a pharma researcher for many years, so she has actual real world experience. She then earned her Education Master's while teaching as part of the New York City Teaching Fellows program. She leaves for work before 7am and brings work home every night and financially, has very little to show for it, while we try to afford raising a family in one of the most expensive cities in the world. If you want to set a high bar, you have to pay for it. Someone who has the kind of credentials you are suggesting is not likely to choose teaching as a career, unless they are truly passionate and are OK with struggling financially. If you don't admire what teachers do, that's because you have no idea what they actually do and what we are asking from them.
3
Then compensation for teaching must be increased and not treated as "womens work." You get what you pay for.
Sorry, Janet, I guess I left out a critical point that I thought went without saying: teachers' salaries should be commensurate with those in other highly paid professions.
P.S. I was also a teacher, so I'm with you.
P.S. I was also a teacher, so I'm with you.
1
Let's remember that the Bloomberg administration and the DOE administration that included Mark Sternberg spent millions and millions trying to get rid of teachers thought to be ineffective. For Mr. Sternberg to criticize the current administration is to admit that his efforts were a failure and a tremendous waste of tax payers' money (the lawyers didn't mind, though).
The focus should be on teacher preparation programs and how the DOE supports new teachers during the critical first two or three years in the classroom.
Mr. Sternberg in the rarefied air of a nice foundation job should be spending his time and effort on these issues rather than trying to pass off his own administration's failures onto his predecessor.
The focus should be on teacher preparation programs and how the DOE supports new teachers during the critical first two or three years in the classroom.
Mr. Sternberg in the rarefied air of a nice foundation job should be spending his time and effort on these issues rather than trying to pass off his own administration's failures onto his predecessor.
6
A union's job is to represent their members on the job, not to improve their teaching skills. Teachers and unions are under assault by forces wanting to turn schools into private profit centers and to break unions. Teachers need professional representation in order to focus on teaching.
The Walton Foundation promotes charter schools at the expense of public education.
Mayor Bloomberg certainly had a free hand at managing public schools and he promoted charter schools. Public schools and teachers were left in a weakened state.
The city’s Absent Teacher Reserve pool needs to be dealt with, which Mayor de Blasio seems to be doing. Good for him.
This article is vague on details and resources, making generalizations and assumptions. The Absent Teacher Reserve pool may be used for several purposes, but that subject is not addressed here. Let's talk about the Absent Teacher Reserve pool.
The Walton Foundation promotes charter schools at the expense of public education.
Mayor Bloomberg certainly had a free hand at managing public schools and he promoted charter schools. Public schools and teachers were left in a weakened state.
The city’s Absent Teacher Reserve pool needs to be dealt with, which Mayor de Blasio seems to be doing. Good for him.
This article is vague on details and resources, making generalizations and assumptions. The Absent Teacher Reserve pool may be used for several purposes, but that subject is not addressed here. Let's talk about the Absent Teacher Reserve pool.
6
Figuring out why the UFT has such immense clout must include attention to factors beyond local politics, Albany, etc. Near the start of my teaching career in NYC in the era of Charlie Cogen and Al Shanker, when I taught at Joan of Arc Junior High on the West Side, it dawned on me the city school system was many things, including the world's largest baby-sitting service. And when we struck for decent wages, we brought the city to its knees. No longer would teachers in NYC be thought of as weak, as doing (according to the stereotype of the day) "women's work." The UFT was for and by teachers. As Shanker once put it, "When the kids start paying dues, I'll represent them, too." All these years later, teachers still realize how vulnerable they'd be without their union. The pity is our society doesn't yet know how to humanize (rather than politicize) the career that has child development and societal well-being at its core. Sadly, our country has never learned to conduct the public sector in full recognition of the dignity of its employees and the recipients of its services.
17
The subtext of this article is that over 80% of the teachers in the Absent Reserve Pool received good ratings as teachers, and that most of them have seniority. Could it be that they are having trouble finding jobs because principals don't want to pay the higher salaries they're entitled to, given their experience?
84
If no principal is willing to pay a teacher a certain salary, and the teacher cannot find work anywhere at that salary, then doesn't that mean that the salary they're "entitled to" is above the market rate? The market rate implies someone is willing to pay it, and clearly principals in NYC and surrounding suburbs would rather have vacancies than pay one teacher the salary of three teachers. They have budgets to meet, which are by the way, funded by taxpayers.
And if a teacher is entitled to collect a salary that's above market rate and not even have to work, why would they ever apply for a job?
And if a teacher is entitled to collect a salary that's above market rate and not even have to work, why would they ever apply for a job?
4
20% got low ratings PLUS more than 33% were facing legal and disciplinary sanctions. No subtext without counting all actual text, please.
1
Principals don't pay salaries. The city does.
2
Paying bad teachers not to teach, sometimes for years on end. Then forcing them on schools where they can resume being bad teachers. This is a microcosm of what's wrong with our entire education system and why the Chinese, Indians, Swedes, Danes Norwegians and 30-plus other nationalities are beating us hands down in educational achievement. I'm not against unions per se when they fight to improve working conditions and wages but they must police their own. Not everyone is cut out to be a teacher and bad teachers should be drummed out of the union and fired. If not, our children are the ones who suffer.
34
Sorry, but you're wrong when you claim that "Chinese, Indians, Swedes, Danes Norwegians and 30-plus other nationalities are beating us hands down in educational achievement." They're not.
Where are you getting your data from?
Here are the facts: When you control for the income and education level of each student's family, and omit the bottom 20% in those categories, the United States of America is at or very near the top, internationally, in both math and language arts.
Our "bad education system" is really shorthand for poverty---the real problem we continue to face as Americans but don't seem to have the political will to do anything about. So now, instead, some people---who don't like the idea of public education to begin with---have seen an opening to attack the people who teach our children. Have these demagogues, like the author of this terrible piece, have no shame?
Where are you getting your data from?
Here are the facts: When you control for the income and education level of each student's family, and omit the bottom 20% in those categories, the United States of America is at or very near the top, internationally, in both math and language arts.
Our "bad education system" is really shorthand for poverty---the real problem we continue to face as Americans but don't seem to have the political will to do anything about. So now, instead, some people---who don't like the idea of public education to begin with---have seen an opening to attack the people who teach our children. Have these demagogues, like the author of this terrible piece, have no shame?
2
Having been an ATR myself, for three years, I can say that not all ATRs are like what this former Principal states. Many of us weren't hired because of our salaries and because of our experience we wouldn't, or couldn't, be intimidated by the leadership of various schools, some of whom have no other educational experience except being an administrator (no background in teaching), to do things that made the administrator "look good" but was not good for the students learning process.
Tell both sides of the story.
Tell both sides of the story.
69
Yes, indeed. The same thing happens in univversities: administrators rate professors according to student evaluations and the drop and fail rate. So, surprise, surprise, professors who teach rigorous courses and resist grade inflation, are rated "ineffective," and heavily pressured to " get the students through," regardless of their competence. Absolutely shameful, but widely practiced. So don't automatically assume that teachers with bad ratings are actually bad teachers.
2
There are multiple reasons a teacher could have ended up in that pool. It has been documented that once a teacher is in that pool they are stuck. It doesn't matter why they are there; once there no principal wants to hire them. Administrators are supposed to be there for the teachers as well as the kids. Do your job and help teachers who are failing.
21
Please put the blame where it belongs, squarely at the feet of the unions. There is something radically wrong with the system if you cannot dismiss as you describe " teachers with checkered pasts or bottom-of-the-barrel skills". It is the union that is failing the children, not the Mayor. This is why the public schools in urban areas will fail and be replaced by charter schools.
15
Nice try. But the states with the very lowest standardized test scores, graduation rates and SAT rankings are the ones where unions are outlawed, namely, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina and Texas.
3
This idea that you can't fire NYC teachers is a complete myth. In fact, it is much, much easier to fire a NYC teacher than it is to fire an employee at an average corporation. To fire a NYC teacher, three observations with unsatisfactory grades are all that is required. That includes tenured teachers. That makes even very, very good teachers extremely vulnerable to firing. Yet still, people like yourself and the Walmart shill who wrote this piece continue to spread the falsehood that teachers can't be fired.
2
Sternberg seems to see the world in absolute terms: a teacher is "great" or
terrible. He tells us that schools are trying to hire only "great" teachers.
A common sense solution would be to have teachers in the pool of NY's not-currently-working teachers work with very small groups, possibly with 2 or 3 at a time, helping students gain confidence who have difficulty in reading, for example, or who are paralyzed by math anxiety and fail their math courses as a result.
With his rigid "either - or" attitude, it's just as well that the writer is no longer involved in school administration.
terrible. He tells us that schools are trying to hire only "great" teachers.
A common sense solution would be to have teachers in the pool of NY's not-currently-working teachers work with very small groups, possibly with 2 or 3 at a time, helping students gain confidence who have difficulty in reading, for example, or who are paralyzed by math anxiety and fail their math courses as a result.
With his rigid "either - or" attitude, it's just as well that the writer is no longer involved in school administration.
50
Very Insightful comment, good candidate for a NYT pick.
1
That would be nice, if all these spare teachers could work with two or three students at a time-- but districts don't even have the money to hire the teachers they need to keep overcrowded classrooms adequately staffed, so they surely can't hire small-group teachers. The average NY classroom, unfortunately, has 25 kids in it.
1
I've taught in situations before where teachers were guaranteed a job regardless of performance. Most teachers' still were able to do a great job because they were motivated by the desire to help their students but some took advantage of the lack of accountability. They didn't try to improve as teachers and often engaged in lazy or unprofessional behavior. It was bad for the moral of those who truly cared and students were hurt by it. I hated to see students get a terrible education year after year in certain classes knowing full well that the situation wouldn't get better until that teacher decided to leave. I do understand that administrators may punish good teachers for political reasons but surely we have to be able to come up with a system where teachers have some level of protection but also can be dismissed when their performance warrants it.
8
That system you advocate for DOES exist; it's called "due process" and I'm happy teachers have it. Otherwise they'd be constantly under threat of being dismissed for reasons ranging from hair style to political beliefs to refusing to date the principal.
ALL workers should have that protection. Not just teachers.
Where did this Big Lie come from? Anyone who REALLY believes that "no teacher can ever be fired, no matter what" is operating from absolute ignorance or is just pushing a political agenda based on deliberate deception.
ALL workers should have that protection. Not just teachers.
Where did this Big Lie come from? Anyone who REALLY believes that "no teacher can ever be fired, no matter what" is operating from absolute ignorance or is just pushing a political agenda based on deliberate deception.
3
Steve: the problem is this luxe, ridiculous system benefits ONLY teachers -- and no other workers in society. We live in a dog-eat-dog laissez faire capitalist system, paying HUGE taxes to support you lazy slacking teachers living in a Social Worker's Paradise.
Even that would not be intolerable if you actually taught our kids to read and do math, but you CANNOT EVEN DO THAT. You just steal our money and then loaf all summer on your 3 month summer vacation with pay....
BTW: it is a FACT that virtually zero teachers are ever fired. Please go rent "Waiting For Superman", they detail the statistics, which are irrefutable.
Even that would not be intolerable if you actually taught our kids to read and do math, but you CANNOT EVEN DO THAT. You just steal our money and then loaf all summer on your 3 month summer vacation with pay....
BTW: it is a FACT that virtually zero teachers are ever fired. Please go rent "Waiting For Superman", they detail the statistics, which are irrefutable.
1
If schools could attract better teachers, the poorly performing ones could be let go under existing laws. What would it take to attract better college grads to teaching other than offering more money than other careers?
It's easy to figure out how much teachers should get paid. Right now, almost everyone who wants to teach can get a job because there are not enough quality applicant to fill the need. School systems have to take almost every applicant because they cannot have uncovered classrooms.
In order to have a staff of highly successful teachers, school systems have to offer a salary/benefits package which will attract enough QUALITY applicants to fill every position. What they are currently offering is obviously not enough or droves of top college grads would be fighting to get into teaching the way they do for the high-paying occupations.
If schools districts want the best, they have to pay the best. That's the marketplace.
It's easy to figure out how much teachers should get paid. Right now, almost everyone who wants to teach can get a job because there are not enough quality applicant to fill the need. School systems have to take almost every applicant because they cannot have uncovered classrooms.
In order to have a staff of highly successful teachers, school systems have to offer a salary/benefits package which will attract enough QUALITY applicants to fill every position. What they are currently offering is obviously not enough or droves of top college grads would be fighting to get into teaching the way they do for the high-paying occupations.
If schools districts want the best, they have to pay the best. That's the marketplace.
5
The problem with a unionized group of teachers is that there are high barriers to join the union. With huge personal commitment to certification classes and lesson plan classes and how-to-walk-children-down-hallways classes, the teachers don't actually spend as much time learning a subject and actually teaching it. Unions have to become more powerful to represent the interests of its members, who have spent their lives taking all this junk in just so they can talk about history or math or music, and share their love of that.
This is a front-load process that puts the entire burden of administration on the teacher.
If one is in a white-collar corporate environment without a union, things are different. Yes, everyone is "at will" hiring. Which means you have to make sure you don't make big mistakes. If business gets hurt by a person's actions they are fired. In the teaching world, supervision is nearly absent. All the accountability and responsibility, but no priority on whether the teacher is imparting their love of learning.
Teachers are treated poorly because management takes zero responsibility for them or the classroom, and invests no time or money in them. Teachers come all front-loaded up, ready to be social workers, police officers and crisis counselors. But what about science and literature? What about the School Administration investing in the teachers' learning of their chosen field? The barrier to fire is higher if management invests in the teacher.
This is a front-load process that puts the entire burden of administration on the teacher.
If one is in a white-collar corporate environment without a union, things are different. Yes, everyone is "at will" hiring. Which means you have to make sure you don't make big mistakes. If business gets hurt by a person's actions they are fired. In the teaching world, supervision is nearly absent. All the accountability and responsibility, but no priority on whether the teacher is imparting their love of learning.
Teachers are treated poorly because management takes zero responsibility for them or the classroom, and invests no time or money in them. Teachers come all front-loaded up, ready to be social workers, police officers and crisis counselors. But what about science and literature? What about the School Administration investing in the teachers' learning of their chosen field? The barrier to fire is higher if management invests in the teacher.
5
Under the Bloomberg model, where teacher salaries came out of a school's budget rather than from the central DoE as had been the previous method, principals could shed higher paid teachers and hire two newbies to replace them in reorganization schemes; teachers were considered interchangeable cogs in the system.
The shed teachers who were at higher salaries found it difficult to find other jobs because other financially strapped NYC schools were also looking to hire less expensive teachers so that they would have more funds available for other things such as supplies and repairs. These teachers, who could not be fired because the had done nothing wrong and had been previously judged to be competent, were relegated to the Absent Teacher Reserve (ATR).
NYC has a procedure for removing incompetent teachers. Since the ATR teachers have not been removed, their only 'crime' is to have more experience and, therefore, higher salaries than new teachers.
The shed teachers who were at higher salaries found it difficult to find other jobs because other financially strapped NYC schools were also looking to hire less expensive teachers so that they would have more funds available for other things such as supplies and repairs. These teachers, who could not be fired because the had done nothing wrong and had been previously judged to be competent, were relegated to the Absent Teacher Reserve (ATR).
NYC has a procedure for removing incompetent teachers. Since the ATR teachers have not been removed, their only 'crime' is to have more experience and, therefore, higher salaries than new teachers.
24
When a school's budget is reduced, a teacher may be excessed (placed in the ATR) because the principal can no longer afford him/her. A teacher earning more than $108K can be replaced by one earning $54K (starting salary). In addition, when schools are closed, all the teachers find themselves excessed. That has nothing to do with their competence. Don't lump all ATRs as incompetent, unmotivated and overpriced. Some are, but some are competent, motivated, and seeking to land a permanent position. This year, the UFT offered a buy-out for ATRs willing to retire. That should be offered again, to reduce the pool.
41
This is where the teachers' unions are just wrong and should change their policy across the country--which has little chance of occurring even though it would instill trust in the profession. Unions immediately circle the wagons and protect poor teachers with little regard for their effectiveness as teacher. A more effective system would provide some type of reasonable teacher evaluation system which would be used to fairly remove poor performing teachers.
Teachers are supposed to provide modeling behavior for students. In these cases, students are taught how to be lazy and ineffective to beat the system.
Lest anyone think that this is a rant from the outside: As a teacher, it was very disappointed for me and other teachers working hard in our respective classrooms whilst seeing a few other teachers just going through the motions and collecting a paycheck--and I am being kind there...
Teachers are supposed to provide modeling behavior for students. In these cases, students are taught how to be lazy and ineffective to beat the system.
Lest anyone think that this is a rant from the outside: As a teacher, it was very disappointed for me and other teachers working hard in our respective classrooms whilst seeing a few other teachers just going through the motions and collecting a paycheck--and I am being kind there...
7
Sternberg's credibility to render judgment on the fitness of teachers in the ATR is highly questionable. Walton's commitment to the devolution of the traditional public school teaching workforce, its use of money to advance private options at public expense, and its antipathy towards unions, are hallmarks of its approach. With this in mind, it is no surprise that Walton would take aim at a perceived weak spot in the union armor, the ATR. Sternberg's charge that all such teachers are "dregs" is simply base and inhumane. Instead of mud-slinging and ad hominem attacks, perhaps Sternberg and his cronies at Walton can devote a portion of its largesse to improving teacher training and ongoing professional development, a much better use of rhetoric and money than what it currently supports.
17
Thank you for pulling this guy apart.
"The city is in this position because the union contract makes dismissing teachers a virtual impossibility."
How could any teacher's union that actually cared for students support such harmful terms in their contract? This shows just what enemies of the people monopoly government employee unions can be.
How could any teacher's union that actually cared for students support such harmful terms in their contract? This shows just what enemies of the people monopoly government employee unions can be.
10
A career administrator bashing careerism in public education. One born everyday.
We have 75 schools districts in B.C., each with its own public board, superintendent and personal retinue at a cost to taxpayers in the hundreds of millions annually. In my nearly 50 years in public education, I can count on one hand the number of senior executives that have been fired from public education. Business executives, many of whom enjoy similar compensation, can only dream of such cushy tenure.
This week, the board-controlled HVAC system at our local school cycled on for the start of the new year. B.C. is currently experiencing one of the warmest summers in recorded history. Can't wait for the cooling system to come on again later this year to help keep things under control when the weather drops freezing.
Article is just more "war on teachers' theatre designed for the political donor class. Be willing to bet those NYC parents whose children are in schools with 'horrible' teachers are happy to have an adult in the classroom today with their child.
We have 75 schools districts in B.C., each with its own public board, superintendent and personal retinue at a cost to taxpayers in the hundreds of millions annually. In my nearly 50 years in public education, I can count on one hand the number of senior executives that have been fired from public education. Business executives, many of whom enjoy similar compensation, can only dream of such cushy tenure.
This week, the board-controlled HVAC system at our local school cycled on for the start of the new year. B.C. is currently experiencing one of the warmest summers in recorded history. Can't wait for the cooling system to come on again later this year to help keep things under control when the weather drops freezing.
Article is just more "war on teachers' theatre designed for the political donor class. Be willing to bet those NYC parents whose children are in schools with 'horrible' teachers are happy to have an adult in the classroom today with their child.
12
Para. II: s/b "75 school districts";
Para. III: s/b "weather drops below freezing."
Err, 'summer slide'.
Para. III: s/b "weather drops below freezing."
Err, 'summer slide'.
Marc Steinberg is attacking the wrong person here. The mayor is using the system that is in place to fill the teaching positions. This is a union/city issue and like our national legislature, they are avoiding their responsibility. The mayor is not supposed to usurp the laws. He is supposed to work within them. The tax payers should just continue to pay 150 million/year for teachers who don't work and then go pay more for new teachers. Instead, why not force all of the teachers who are not currently working to take classes and workshops to remain up to date on current teaching methods and materials. If they don't put in substantial hours, they will be removed from the pool. As far as the teachers who are subpar or have other issues, this is a union problem. They need to look out for the best interests of the children, not the poor quality teachers.
1
One opinion by a Bloomberg cog who now works for the Walton Foundation (!!) must be taken with a grain of salt (Walmart is hardly the source I would go to for intelligent discussions of unions...). Sorry. There are many reasons why a teacher might be in this program, not necessarily due to their competence as an educator. One of the reasons a teachers union exists is to protect teachers. Constant union bashing only serves those who wish to crush unions. (And no, I am not a teacher.)
25
I am a high school assistant principal in NYC who worked for the DOE for 12+ years. As I always said then, "An ATR is an ATR for a reason." The ATR pool originated as a protection for teachers who worked for ineffective/unfair administrators (and there are plenty), but it has devolved into a welfare state meant to protect those who exert the least effort of any teacher in the system. These are people who will refuse to do one iota of work beyond their contract, who fly out of the door as soon as school is over, and who disparage NYC's children as deserving less- usually while employing coded racist language. In my experience, almost every ATR who was forced into our school by the district immediately lowered the standard of work, complained to colleagues, tried to detract from school improvement priorities, and ultimately turn around and blamed the kids or administration for their non-performance. Everyone is the system knows this is a travesty, and the union loses credibility by getting behind these particular teachers.
38
The biggest problem is that we do not value educators in our society. Considering teachers are responsible for educating the future generations of America, we treat them quite poorly. They do not have the level of respect, from students or parents in many cases, that they should have and their pay is incredibly low for what they have to put up with. It's no wonder the US has a teacher retention problem. Until their salaries reflect the importance of their job, this will remain an issue.
In places like China, being a teacher is considered one of the best positions a person can get and the competition is fierce. Their salaries are quite high and they are respected by both students and parents. At the end of the day, the US just doesn't value education. Politicians can claim that they care about educating the youths of America, but at the end of the day, when you would rather fund schools with flat screen TVs and tablets over paying teachers higher salaries, that really shows where your priorities lie.
In places like China, being a teacher is considered one of the best positions a person can get and the competition is fierce. Their salaries are quite high and they are respected by both students and parents. At the end of the day, the US just doesn't value education. Politicians can claim that they care about educating the youths of America, but at the end of the day, when you would rather fund schools with flat screen TVs and tablets over paying teachers higher salaries, that really shows where your priorities lie.
37
This seems misleading. Are you saying China is paying more for teachers than US? Teachers in the US make several times over what teachers in the US make. China is not even in the top 40 countries in the world for what they pay their teachers. The US pays their teachers more than other competitive counties such as Canada, Japan and France.
ref: OECD
ref: OECD
2
Remind me again why you endorsed de Blasio, NYT?
Oh yes, "the economy is humming."
Meanwhile there are entire blocks with empty store fronts.
And now the most vulnerable kids in the system will be force to have teacher no one else wants.
Right.
Oh yes, "the economy is humming."
Meanwhile there are entire blocks with empty store fronts.
And now the most vulnerable kids in the system will be force to have teacher no one else wants.
Right.
37
Qualified, capable and passionate teachers are essential to the success of students, no matter what background they come from. As I have seen through my own experiences from elementary to the end of high school, teachers have a significant impact on students' morale and motivation surrounding school. Instructors that exhibit passion, knowledge and a desire to help students learn in the most complete way possible draw the most admiration and effort from their students. Students become more determined to excel in their studies and gain a more positive attitude on school regardless of the difficulty of the class. Unfortunately, this policy reversal will bring hundreds of unqualified teachers back into the field, and can undo the progress and break the foundation that thousands of great teachers built up.
To make matters worse, many of these teachers will find jobs trying to teach the city's most vulnerable students. The article states that teachers will go to low income communities where there are high teacher vacancy rates. It is unfair to these children to be put at a further disadvantage. Teachers from this reserve pool will make it even more difficult for low income students to graduate and gain an enriching education. Those in power in New York City should be trying to accomplish the opposite: bring in effective and skilled teachers who will transform the schools in these areas and give these students the best chance to advance and create a bright future for themselves.
To make matters worse, many of these teachers will find jobs trying to teach the city's most vulnerable students. The article states that teachers will go to low income communities where there are high teacher vacancy rates. It is unfair to these children to be put at a further disadvantage. Teachers from this reserve pool will make it even more difficult for low income students to graduate and gain an enriching education. Those in power in New York City should be trying to accomplish the opposite: bring in effective and skilled teachers who will transform the schools in these areas and give these students the best chance to advance and create a bright future for themselves.
9
What if we looked at all the teachers in the NYC school system? Take the best and send them to the highest needs districts, rather than have them at the schools that are already succeeding. NY State gives out scores for teachers based on classroom performance. If Ms. Smith gets a high school at Stuyvesant, then the next year she teaches in the Bronx.
1
Involuntary transferring teachers to schools where they will be more likely to struggle and look bad is a great way to make "the best" flee the NYC public schools in droves! Not to mention a great way to rip the heart out of any sense of community or collegiality in any number of schools.
However, I'll grant you this: if we regularly rotated teachers back and forth between the "best and "worst" schools, it would soon become clear that there are many factors that have a greater influence on students' standardized test scores than the quality of their teachers.
However, I'll grant you this: if we regularly rotated teachers back and forth between the "best and "worst" schools, it would soon become clear that there are many factors that have a greater influence on students' standardized test scores than the quality of their teachers.
1
It is a very difficult problem. Teachers in this pool aren't necessarily bad. Some are there because of the vagaries of their administrator. Having been a teacher I know. I was told by one principal that he wanted all teachers in his school to be under 30, as they will relate better to the students. OK. But what happens in the world outside the school? There are a lot of people who are much older than 30. Teachers are also penalized for insisting on actual learning and accomplishments in class. As a science teacher I was often under the gun for expecting too much, for failing too many, for giving poor grades, etc.... And yes, I was also the Union rep in my school district, so was penalized for not complying with administration requests, because I actually felt that representing my fellow teachers was my responsibility. (Not NYC).
And, I was well over 30 when I came to teaching as a career changer after my own children had grown up.
And, I was well over 30 when I came to teaching as a career changer after my own children had grown up.
79
He probably wanted them young in order to keep his payroll low.
44
Yes I agree. The lower pay factor is usually the reason. There are good and bad teachers of every age. Yes there are older teachers that are burnt out, but there are also many older teachers that are still very excited about teaching and they come with loads of experience. Young teachers can be extremely enthusiastic and great teachers despite their inexperience but many have not yet reached mastery just because they don't have the time in the classroom engaging with a variety of students that wonderful older teachers have. I too started teaching in my late 30s (now retired) and found a desire from a number of principals for teachers with lower salaries no matter their skill level or inexperience. I found these administrators to be less effective than those who valued knowledge, experience and classroom skills.
14
I would consider the possibility that having many failing kids is a sign that a teacher is a poor fit for the classroom. It is the teacher's responsibility to convey the information to the kids, and if they are not successful in doing that, they are not effective teachers.
A good teacher should embrace the challenge of teaching in a way that gets the kids to understand it. If many kids are failing, then by definition, the teacher has not done a good job.
A good teacher should embrace the challenge of teaching in a way that gets the kids to understand it. If many kids are failing, then by definition, the teacher has not done a good job.
This essay compares a statistic for one group with a DIFFERENT statistic for another group. Rewording to make a fair comparison, 93 percent of NYC teachers are rated effective or better, and more than 80 percent of teachers in the reserve pool are rated effective or better. Put that way, it sounds like schools have a lot of effective teachers to choose from.
In general, I wonder how much of the trouble with teachers in the reserve pool is due to above-average seniority requiring above-average pay. Perhaps schools just prefer to hire cheaper teachers?
In general, I wonder how much of the trouble with teachers in the reserve pool is due to above-average seniority requiring above-average pay. Perhaps schools just prefer to hire cheaper teachers?
129
Anyone who has been in education knows that being considered effective or qualified by a state and actually being effective or qualified are very different matters. My guess is that in actuality nowhere near 80% of teachers in that pool are effective in real life.
6
My guess is that in actuality 80% of people in all jobs are not effective in real life. But wait - that's a guess and only a guess so likely to be wrong just like yours. You are mixing up a lot of judgmental vocabulary here without any factual back up - a pretty reliable way to make any guess wrong.
My wife met a young women who had joined her running group. When she learned that her junior high teacher was my wife's new husband she said this:
"One day he took me aside and told me I was really intelligent, and by working harder, I could be whatever I dreamed of. No teacher had ever said that to me. I never thought of myself as smart. He lit a fire in me. Now I am a college graduate with a nursing job, and I owe it all to your husband."
I was not the greatest teacher, but I could identify a great student and help them see a better future.
"One day he took me aside and told me I was really intelligent, and by working harder, I could be whatever I dreamed of. No teacher had ever said that to me. I never thought of myself as smart. He lit a fire in me. Now I am a college graduate with a nursing job, and I owe it all to your husband."
I was not the greatest teacher, but I could identify a great student and help them see a better future.
49
Offering only this editorial, without hearing from any of the teachers who are actually in the Absent Teacher Reserve does readers a disservice and doesn't show the whole picture. While some of the teachers in the ATR are there for the reasons enumerated by Mr. Sternberg, it is a fact that many others are there because of the excesses of Bloomberg's small schools push. When he broke up large schools and teachers had to reapply for their jobs, it was in this new era where principals were suddenly in charge of their own budgets. Of course, many of the oldest, most experienced teachers were not rehired because they had reached a pay level so much higher than those with less experience. That problem continues today. There are also other reasons beyond incompetence or malfeasance that teachers are in the ATR. Some have specialties that are not in demand, yet the City has not offered any retraining for these skilled educators to teach subjects that now have shortages...
194
Perhaps then the problem is with a compensation scale based solely on seniority and education. While teaching experience and education definitely matter, they are not the other factors impacting the quality of teaching - and even within experience, it's not clear that a teacher with 22 years of experience is inherently better than one with 10 years of experience (not saying they'd be worse, either, just that I think at some point the correlation between experience and quality plateaus). And if we do want to continue paying these high-seniority teachers more, it would be more equitable to have that extra compensation come out of the district budget, not that of individual schools).
6
As a retired teacher, I can relate horrible stories of experienced teachers, loved by their students, who wound up in the ATR pool. One gentleman, with a PHD in history was excessed when the High School was "re-organized", because he was at the top tier he lost his job.
2
Are we all really supposed to believe that an overwhelming number of these individuals are actually NYC's "best and brightest" teachers? That once you've reached the pinnacle of pay and experience, you're sent off on the proverbial iceberg, never to be seen or heard from again?
These exceptional educators must be scratching their heads as to why the other half of their number in the pool haven't even applied to a single job in the past year (as per the article), or how they found themselves lumped in with so many poorly rated colleagues (20%) and discipline cases (33%).
Perhaps we need a better system to find these proverbial diamonds in the rough, who seem to be hopelessly tossed in with what are *actually* NYC's "worst"? What say you?
These exceptional educators must be scratching their heads as to why the other half of their number in the pool haven't even applied to a single job in the past year (as per the article), or how they found themselves lumped in with so many poorly rated colleagues (20%) and discipline cases (33%).
Perhaps we need a better system to find these proverbial diamonds in the rough, who seem to be hopelessly tossed in with what are *actually* NYC's "worst"? What say you?
1
I don't care what the union contract specifies, a good, attentive principal can document a teacher's shortcomings and fire them. If the teacher appeals it might be a lengthy process but well worth it. In North Carolina and Virginia, we don't have teacher unions although our legislators miscategorize the teacher associations as unions. They are actually lobbying groups that can't do collective bargaining. Even though principals here have wide latitude in documenting and getting rid of teachers, they don't always take the time to do that. I was fortunate to work for principals who were involved and used their positions to create excellent staffs. If teachers had trouble in the classroom they were referred to teacher improvement plans, were observed by master teachers, and closely watched by administration. If they didnt improve under this plan, their jobs were terminated. It's pretty simple but it takes some work on the part of administration and teachers.
27
Katherine, what you describe sounds like my state. I'm often baffled by what I read here about NYC teachers, because it is nothing like the experience I'm familiar with. Yes, firing bad teachers is like firing bad government employees; it requires, as it should, honest efforts to help the employee improve subpar performance, patient observation and documentation, and, finally, termination of employees who can't or won't perform. Crucial to the process, as you mention, is the involvement of master teachers, because principals alone usually don't have the time and skills to judge and assist teacher performance. It needs to be fair to both sides, but terminations do happen when needed.
15
MS CAGLE: Tenure does not guarantee a teacher a job. All tenure does is guarantee a teacher the right to a hearing if accused of incompetence or any other offense. Tenure was designed to protect teachers from harassment by principals and other supervisors. And tenure protects senior teachers from being fired just because they earn more than their replacements. Many union contracts have rules similar to tenure for the workplace to protect workers.
It's not tenure or union rule that keep incompetent teachers in the classroom. It's the inability of schools to find competent teachers to replace them. Most of the best college grads go into the more lucrative fields. Until schools start paying teachers more, they will have to accept many who are not top level.
It's not tenure or union rule that keep incompetent teachers in the classroom. It's the inability of schools to find competent teachers to replace them. Most of the best college grads go into the more lucrative fields. Until schools start paying teachers more, they will have to accept many who are not top level.
My daughter, now in her 5th year as an NYC special ed teacher, has told me of many instances where principals or assistant principals were too lazy or negligent to properly document actionable misbehaviors by teachers that, had they been properly documented, could absolutely lead to firing even of a tenured teacher.
On the other hand, my daughter escaped a school where she was written up by a rogue assistant principal who made up an allegation 6 months after the alleged incident took place, & tried to deny her the ability to consult with her union rep, & to challenge the charge.
The days of assistant principals having a decade or 2 in the classroom before beginning administration, & principals more than that, are long gone in NYC schools. Sternberg is a good example. He graduated Princeton in 1995, meaning he was born about 1974. He became a Teach for America fellow, got both an MBA and Masters of Education, and became a Principal, all in the span of 9 years! He became a "senior deputy chancellor" under Bloomberg by the age of about 36, and decamped for the Walton Family Foundation before he turned 40.
One would question the value of an MBA to a teacher who is not teaching business courses. I wonder if he himself was a product of public schools? Some of the most fervent advocates for "reform," such as Bill Gates, Cathie Black (Bloomberg's disastrous 2d schools chancellor), Arne Duncan and Betsy deVos have zero experience in public schools as students, parents or teachers.
On the other hand, my daughter escaped a school where she was written up by a rogue assistant principal who made up an allegation 6 months after the alleged incident took place, & tried to deny her the ability to consult with her union rep, & to challenge the charge.
The days of assistant principals having a decade or 2 in the classroom before beginning administration, & principals more than that, are long gone in NYC schools. Sternberg is a good example. He graduated Princeton in 1995, meaning he was born about 1974. He became a Teach for America fellow, got both an MBA and Masters of Education, and became a Principal, all in the span of 9 years! He became a "senior deputy chancellor" under Bloomberg by the age of about 36, and decamped for the Walton Family Foundation before he turned 40.
One would question the value of an MBA to a teacher who is not teaching business courses. I wonder if he himself was a product of public schools? Some of the most fervent advocates for "reform," such as Bill Gates, Cathie Black (Bloomberg's disastrous 2d schools chancellor), Arne Duncan and Betsy deVos have zero experience in public schools as students, parents or teachers.
3
Is anyone else outraged that you cannot fire bad teachers? There needs to be a more balanced approach to the ability of the DOE to recruit, retain, promote and, yes, terminate educators who are not meeting minimum standards. How was the teachers union allowed to negotiate these ridiculous terms? This situation overshadows and distracts from the incredibly important work done by the vast majority of our teachers - they may need to be the ones to advocate internally at the union for higher standards of professionalism among the ranks.
61
Except that the claim that bad teachers can not be fired is false. But tenure, not a guarantee of employment, but of due process, requires that administrators must rigorously document actionable events, and provide for hearings and appeals. My daughter, a special ed teacher in NYC, has told me that there are principals and assistant principals who simply can't be bothered to follow the necessary procedures. How many teachers are relegated to the Absent Teacher Reserve pool because ADMINISTRATORS didn't do their jobs?
Since principals got full autonomy on hiring and budgeting under Sternberg's old boss, Mike Bloomberg, it opens the question of how many principals have shunted older teachers off to the ATR pool while hiring younger teachers who put less of a hit on their budget for teachers?
If teachers should be professionals, & they definitely should, then administrators should be models of professionalism. It is here that the Bloomberg/Spellings/Duncan et. al. model is problematic. Now administrators are recruited long before they can prove to be a model classroom professional. The author, Sternberg, is a useful example. According to his Walton Family Foundation profile, and news articles, I was able to piece together that he got his Bachelors in 1995 (born~1974), got an MBA, MEd, and made principal in 9 years, & became a Senior Deputy Chancellor @36. In my 13 years as an NYC public school student, at 4 schools, I never saw a principal younger than 50. Experience counts
Since principals got full autonomy on hiring and budgeting under Sternberg's old boss, Mike Bloomberg, it opens the question of how many principals have shunted older teachers off to the ATR pool while hiring younger teachers who put less of a hit on their budget for teachers?
If teachers should be professionals, & they definitely should, then administrators should be models of professionalism. It is here that the Bloomberg/Spellings/Duncan et. al. model is problematic. Now administrators are recruited long before they can prove to be a model classroom professional. The author, Sternberg, is a useful example. According to his Walton Family Foundation profile, and news articles, I was able to piece together that he got his Bachelors in 1995 (born~1974), got an MBA, MEd, and made principal in 9 years, & became a Senior Deputy Chancellor @36. In my 13 years as an NYC public school student, at 4 schools, I never saw a principal younger than 50. Experience counts
1
Jack Welch's 10% plan comes to mind. It keeps everyone on their toes and it's nearly bulletproof against lawsuits and Labor Dept investigations.
"How was the teachers union allowed to negotiate these ridiculous terms?" Easy one - by political and financial support to DeBlasio.
3
They ceded power to the UFT and now the bill is due ; unfortunately, the pupils will be paying it!
25
Everyone has a calling.
Some people are meant to be teachers and some are meant to be something else.
Bill de Blasio was meant to be a political hack. In this instance he is currying favor from the teacher's union at the expense of taxpayers, public school kids and their families. He needs a job where his opportunist instincts can't hurt anyone. Mayor of NYC is not that job
Some people are meant to be teachers and some are meant to be something else.
Bill de Blasio was meant to be a political hack. In this instance he is currying favor from the teacher's union at the expense of taxpayers, public school kids and their families. He needs a job where his opportunist instincts can't hurt anyone. Mayor of NYC is not that job
70
James, your calling is writing commentary! The first three sentences of your comment are great. Don't know if the rest of your piece is accurate, but really enjoyed the swipe at the Mayor. If you have some spare time I hope you will volunteer to coach writing at a local Jr Hi.
excellent
These teachers were not convicted of anything. Some principal did not like them so instead of providing evidence that they should be fired, they were relegated to the absent teacher reserve. Their new principal must be held responsible for closely supervising them.
40
That's how it works in the (real world) private sector. Why are government employees immune?
1
Paying bad teachers not to teach. Quite amazing!!
40
How do you know that they are bad?
There are many reasons why a teachers might be in the ATR. If they had been bad, they would have had a hearing (required by the tenure law) and been fired.
The fact that the ATR teachers haven't been fired should demonstrate that they are not bad teachers.
There are many reasons why a teachers might be in the ATR. If they had been bad, they would have had a hearing (required by the tenure law) and been fired.
The fact that the ATR teachers haven't been fired should demonstrate that they are not bad teachers.
1
Allen: they cannot be fired, due to all the arcane rules and lawyers and hearings. Teachers are virtually UNFIREABLE, no matter the offense.
Stop pretending otherwise. NO other job classification in the whole nation is protected like THIS from any firings or disciplinary actions.
Stop pretending otherwise. NO other job classification in the whole nation is protected like THIS from any firings or disciplinary actions.
1
It is reasonable to argue, as Mr. Sternberg finally does, that limits should be placed on how long a passed over teacher should remain in the paid reserve pool. But the unstated and necessary argument here is that NYC needs to attract and hire new teachers. That argument cannot, responsibly, be left implicit: How many at what cost? Mr. Sternberg has chosen the easy road of slamming the de Blasio administration for a tough choice nobody will like and that the de Blasio administration surely does not want to make, without coming clean about what makes that tough choice possibly necessary under current circumstances.
9
What 'tough choice'? Needs of students vs. needs of teachers. Easy choice.
'Coming Clean' would have been the tough choice. Telling the Teacher's Union that the PAID reserve pool is history would have been tough. He didn't make any 'tough choices'.
'Coming Clean' would have been the tough choice. Telling the Teacher's Union that the PAID reserve pool is history would have been tough. He didn't make any 'tough choices'.
2
The rationale for a paid reserve pool is to serve students, not teachers, by retaining available teachers through temporary staffing surplus so they are available to meet later unexpected increased and unbudgeted enrollments. The alternative is increasing class size for all students, which serves no one. There is a perfectly good argument that the reserve pool is being abused out of administrative convenience as a holding tank for poor teachers rather than going through procedures for firing them. But that argument is for limiting the number of years passed over teachers stay in the reserve pool, not for eliminating the pool which serves important objectives in students' interests. The reflexive impulse to bash teachers for everything unsatisfactory in educational outcomes needs to give way to reasoned pursuit of objectives on which all can agree. If all cards were on the table, which Mr. Sternberg did not do, a deal to hire more teachers in conjunction with limiting years in the reserve pool might prove acceptable to all, and genuinely in students' interests, rather than a contentious move to eke out money for new teachers by attacking even the legitimate purposes of the reserve pool.
2
Good thing Walmart Schools are here to save the day
62
Yes, just in case anyone missed the fine print at the bottom of the editorial:
"Marc Sternberg, the director of K-12 education for the Walton Family Foundation, was a deputy chancellor of the New York City Department of Education during the Bloomberg administration."
"Marc Sternberg, the director of K-12 education for the Walton Family Foundation, was a deputy chancellor of the New York City Department of Education during the Bloomberg administration."
@teacher, that is no defense of the current state of affairs. It appears to most folks that the unions care far more about their perks, their candidates and their turf than the children. But we are all on the same team and I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle. And most people don't even know special retirement accounts were created for teachers which guarantee rates of return around 7%. Just another crazy benefit to secure the vote of the union. Ugh
Isn't it ironic that The New York Times has endorsed this man. He panders to, perhaps, his largest electoral base, the Teachers Union, despite the harm his agenda ( placing these teachers back in our schools) will do to the children of NYC.
He talks about resistance to DT"s aganda. How do we resist his? He talks down reporters, scolds them when they question his policies or directives, and, apparently is more concerned with his own agenda. than the future of NY, its citizens its children etc.
As he mentioned in his interview with The New Yorker, he has socialist values. Perhaps he should relocate to a country more "in line" with his moral compass.
He talks about resistance to DT"s aganda. How do we resist his? He talks down reporters, scolds them when they question his policies or directives, and, apparently is more concerned with his own agenda. than the future of NY, its citizens its children etc.
As he mentioned in his interview with The New Yorker, he has socialist values. Perhaps he should relocate to a country more "in line" with his moral compass.
26
"...his largest electoral base, the teacher's union?"
The UFT has 200,000 total members, 75,000 of whom are NYC public school teachers. The union represents paraprofessionals, secretaries, social workers, administrative law judges, nurses, and others, as well as 60,000 retirees.
By the way, none of these members are REQUIRED to live within the bounds of NYC, and any number of them do not.
In the meantime, according to state registration figures, there are just under 5.1 million registered voters within NYC. Even assuming every single UFT member lives within NYC and votes de Blasio, that represents a mere 3.9% of registered voters.
My NYC public schools education in math, social studies and civics says that your argument is utter nonsense, @bsb.
Not that I like de Blasio, myself.
The UFT has 200,000 total members, 75,000 of whom are NYC public school teachers. The union represents paraprofessionals, secretaries, social workers, administrative law judges, nurses, and others, as well as 60,000 retirees.
By the way, none of these members are REQUIRED to live within the bounds of NYC, and any number of them do not.
In the meantime, according to state registration figures, there are just under 5.1 million registered voters within NYC. Even assuming every single UFT member lives within NYC and votes de Blasio, that represents a mere 3.9% of registered voters.
My NYC public schools education in math, social studies and civics says that your argument is utter nonsense, @bsb.
Not that I like de Blasio, myself.
1
Public schooling -- at your disservice and at your expense.
Ain't Democracy wonderful?
Ain't Democracy wonderful?
8
Where is Attorney General Eric Sniederman ? He is such a hypocrite. This outrage by the Mayor should be challenged by the state but no because the Mayor is a fellow Democrat , the Attorney General looks the other way . This policy has clear civil rights problems but Democrats will never buck the teachers union .
8
What message does this sent to the overwhelming majority who are good?
17
I favor unions but sometimes unions (as is the case with all human endeavor) exceed their usefulness. The abusurdity of "paying" teachers not to teach is a case in point. By all means the union must be the protector of any teacher about to be dismissed but, God forbid, any teacher deserving of dismissal should be dismissed. Before being dismissed a teacher must be shown to be deserving of being dismissed. The Absent Teacher Reserve pool must be abolished.
80
Mr. Sternberg, being in the employ of the Walton Family Foundation, has an agenda to promote that has nothing to do with improving the quality of teachers or our schools.
The agenda is to privatize public education and turn our school system into the Walmart of education.
No thank you. Bargain basement privatized education is not the answer.
The agenda is to privatize public education and turn our school system into the Walmart of education.
No thank you. Bargain basement privatized education is not the answer.
206
Yes. Better to put terrible, unqualified teachers in public schools largely attended by poor and minority students to continue to cycle of poverty and misery!!! Well played sir!
5
Why dont engage in a debate of her ideas instead of disqualifying her? Where is she wrong in this article?
4
Felipe, David didn't disqualify Sternberg, Sternberg disqualified Sternberg.
Corporate-welfare "charter" schools steal taxpayer funds that public schools already desperately needed without them.
Adding such mosquitoes to the swamp won't drain it, but they'll sure drain something else.
Corporate-welfare "charter" schools steal taxpayer funds that public schools already desperately needed without them.
Adding such mosquitoes to the swamp won't drain it, but they'll sure drain something else.
1
Good teachers or bad, the fact remains that public school students in the U.S. attend school an average of 185 days while other countries require 205-235 days. And studies have consistently shown that the first two months of the year are spent in reviewing to make up for the loss of memory caused by the long summer layoff, as the writer points out. America is longer an agrarian society and this scheduling is absurd.
It's an outrage to keep unsuitable teachers on full pay for doing nothing. And every principal would want to hire the best teachers, but where are they?
16
LOLA: Here's where the best teachers are:
Women were discriminated against in the workforce even more in the past. Intelligent women were all too often unable to get good jobs outside of nursing and teaching. Society benefited from this discrimination because it forced highly competent women into the relatively low-paying field of teaching (compared with jobs requiring a similar level of education). NYC got top-level teachers on the cheap.
Today, most of those intelligent women are doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. as are intelligent men. We need to attract those people to the classroom. What will do it? Comparable salaries. While paying current teachers more will not get them to do a better job, raising teacher salaries will attract more of the kind of people who are able to do a better job and eventually replacing those who do not perform well.
NYC cannot get rid of mediocre teachers unless they have someone better to take their place. You may think teachers get paid a lot, but compare what they earn with those with a similar amount of time spent in college and grad school. Yes, they get a lot of time off, but so do many of those others. And many of the others don't have work to take home. If you want a top level teacher in every classroom, you'll have to offer top college grads something to make a career in teaching worthwhile to them. Mayor Koch offered the love of their students as an inducement, but money seems to be what works today.
Women were discriminated against in the workforce even more in the past. Intelligent women were all too often unable to get good jobs outside of nursing and teaching. Society benefited from this discrimination because it forced highly competent women into the relatively low-paying field of teaching (compared with jobs requiring a similar level of education). NYC got top-level teachers on the cheap.
Today, most of those intelligent women are doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. as are intelligent men. We need to attract those people to the classroom. What will do it? Comparable salaries. While paying current teachers more will not get them to do a better job, raising teacher salaries will attract more of the kind of people who are able to do a better job and eventually replacing those who do not perform well.
NYC cannot get rid of mediocre teachers unless they have someone better to take their place. You may think teachers get paid a lot, but compare what they earn with those with a similar amount of time spent in college and grad school. Yes, they get a lot of time off, but so do many of those others. And many of the others don't have work to take home. If you want a top level teacher in every classroom, you'll have to offer top college grads something to make a career in teaching worthwhile to them. Mayor Koch offered the love of their students as an inducement, but money seems to be what works today.
4
Everyone's an expert when it comes to education, but repeating alternative facts doesn't make them true.
Provide an example of an "agrarian" economy that waits until mid-June to plant crops and harvests them at the end of August while they are still growing. Also, a 2012 report by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development revealed that American school kids rack up 1130 hours in the classroom per year, the most in the world and that "American middle school and high school teachers spend more time educating students than peers in every OECD country except Chile, according to the report. In addition to classroom time, U.S. teachers are required to be at school for more hours than most of their international peers." The worldwide average, 782 hours, which - by the way- is the total in Japan.
Provide an example of an "agrarian" economy that waits until mid-June to plant crops and harvests them at the end of August while they are still growing. Also, a 2012 report by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development revealed that American school kids rack up 1130 hours in the classroom per year, the most in the world and that "American middle school and high school teachers spend more time educating students than peers in every OECD country except Chile, according to the report. In addition to classroom time, U.S. teachers are required to be at school for more hours than most of their international peers." The worldwide average, 782 hours, which - by the way- is the total in Japan.
If they instituted year-round schooling they would have to pay teachers exponentially more money. My father worked in personnel for a 3-high-school district here in Texas, and I once asked him about this.
Certainly, I asked, the passionate and dedicated teachers would still teach. They would, he replied, but who is going to replace the mediocre teachers who are only here for the long vacations? Without that, our schools would shut down.
Certainly, I asked, the passionate and dedicated teachers would still teach. They would, he replied, but who is going to replace the mediocre teachers who are only here for the long vacations? Without that, our schools would shut down.
Google Janus v. AFSCME. A 5 to 4 decision is coming that will end compulsory union dues. It can be assumed that at least half the teachers (and other public employees) will stop paying dues. Say goodbye to their monopoly, and say goodbye to their political power.
8
The fact that NYC even has this pool of teachers sitting it out gives fodder to the privatization advocates who like to bash our public schools. We need to be able to focus on excellence in teaching and raise morale and salaries across the country. A policy like this literally drags the entire system down.
33
We ndo not need to "bash" the public schools; they are doing it to themselves.
Compare the results of a US education to those of any other country which spend far less per pupil.
That might open your eyes a little.
Compare the results of a US education to those of any other country which spend far less per pupil.
That might open your eyes a little.
2
The damage that a bad teacher can do to a student is unthinkable. They can take a student who loves to learn and leave them with a lifelong hatred of school. De Blasio should be ashamed of himself. Would he let such teachers near his son.
When I was in the 3rd grade I had a teacher who no longer belonged in the classroom. She belittled students who didn't catch on quickly and was in general a bully. The majority of the parents complained as their children developed behavioral issues and an unwillingness to go to school but were told she was protected by tenure.
Thankfully my 4th, 5th, and 6th grade teachers were amazing and I ended up loving school. I'm the only one of my four siblings to graduate, the rest had several bad teachers and by high school just stopped going to school. Hopefully the parents of NY schools will push back and demand better for their kids.
When I was in the 3rd grade I had a teacher who no longer belonged in the classroom. She belittled students who didn't catch on quickly and was in general a bully. The majority of the parents complained as their children developed behavioral issues and an unwillingness to go to school but were told she was protected by tenure.
Thankfully my 4th, 5th, and 6th grade teachers were amazing and I ended up loving school. I'm the only one of my four siblings to graduate, the rest had several bad teachers and by high school just stopped going to school. Hopefully the parents of NY schools will push back and demand better for their kids.
32
I am a 20 year vetetan elementary teacher, and usually "Belittled children who did not catch on quickly" is really, "Belittled children who were a constant behavioral disruption while she attempted to educate 30 other at-risk kids". Most elementary teachers love children and look for effort and progress and character, not intellectual wizardry or mastery.
8
AMI: Tenure does not guarantee a teacher a job. All tenure does is guarantee a teacher the right to a hearing if accused of incompetence or any other offense. Tenure was designed to protect teachers from harassment by principals and other supervisors. And tenure protects senior teachers from being fired just because they earn more than their replacements. Many union contracts have rules similar to tenure for the workplace to protect workers.
It's not tenure or union rule that keep incompetent teachers in the classroom. It's the inability of schools to find competent teachers to replace them. Most of the best college grads go into the more lucrative fields. Until schools start paying teachers more, they will have to accept many who are not top level.
It's not tenure or union rule that keep incompetent teachers in the classroom. It's the inability of schools to find competent teachers to replace them. Most of the best college grads go into the more lucrative fields. Until schools start paying teachers more, they will have to accept many who are not top level.
1
So, 3 out of 4 siblings did not graduate.
Are you sure this is the teachers' fault?
Could it POSSIBLY have something to do with the family?
Are you sure this is the teachers' fault?
Could it POSSIBLY have something to do with the family?
Can't help but wonder if de Blasio and his administration would be discouraged if their children were in classrooms with subpar teachers at the helm. This is positively reckless.
No energy should be put into justifying this poor policy reversal.
We need real leaders with innovative ideas.
No energy should be put into justifying this poor policy reversal.
We need real leaders with innovative ideas.
19
The Walton Family Foundation? The people, like his former boss Mike Bloomberg, are pushing charter schools as the answer?
My wife and I are both products of the NYC Public Schools. We went to Stuyvesant High School, and both experienced, many years ago, both outstanding and some abysmal teachers.
Our daughter is a special ed teacher in District 75, and that has given us new perspective. The Bloomberg model of the Principal as CEO of a school in charge of hiring and, yes, firing, is modeled on a flawed premise, that Principals are expert judges of teachers. Some principals, as was NEVER the case when my wife and I were in school, are now quite young & inexperienced.
The decentralization of hiring makes a young teacher's job in getting hired really hard. My daughter took part in a Bloomberg initiative, NYC Teaching Fellows. Unlike its sister program in Boston, where a year of student teaching is required, she had 6 weeks of half days in summer school before being told, "go get 'em, kid." She applied to 60 schools before a friend told her of an opening in the South Bronx, where she got the only job offer she received. The 2d year, she was sent to another location of the same school, with an assistant principal who supported friends who were paraprofessionals who did not do their jobs. The support given to new teachers was appallingly little.
She wanted to change schools, & another 50 applications later, she was hired on the spot by the only school to let her do a demo lesson.
My wife and I are both products of the NYC Public Schools. We went to Stuyvesant High School, and both experienced, many years ago, both outstanding and some abysmal teachers.
Our daughter is a special ed teacher in District 75, and that has given us new perspective. The Bloomberg model of the Principal as CEO of a school in charge of hiring and, yes, firing, is modeled on a flawed premise, that Principals are expert judges of teachers. Some principals, as was NEVER the case when my wife and I were in school, are now quite young & inexperienced.
The decentralization of hiring makes a young teacher's job in getting hired really hard. My daughter took part in a Bloomberg initiative, NYC Teaching Fellows. Unlike its sister program in Boston, where a year of student teaching is required, she had 6 weeks of half days in summer school before being told, "go get 'em, kid." She applied to 60 schools before a friend told her of an opening in the South Bronx, where she got the only job offer she received. The 2d year, she was sent to another location of the same school, with an assistant principal who supported friends who were paraprofessionals who did not do their jobs. The support given to new teachers was appallingly little.
She wanted to change schools, & another 50 applications later, she was hired on the spot by the only school to let her do a demo lesson.
99
See, the whole thing about school choice, whether via charters or vouchers, is that if it doesn't work out everyone--mostly the students--leaves. The thing about standard public schools is that incompetence, malfeasance, even criminality, can go for years and years. NYC has more than enough examples of this for the discerning public to understand this basic fact.
I agree with David Colton regarding the value of good administration and the negative impact of dreadful administrators who were in all likelihood, dreadful teachers. But the point of this article is what to do about teachers who have had legal issues or just demonstrate poor teaching skills. In a school with excellent administrators, poor teaching can be identified and maybe even rectified. But if there's no improvement to a specific teacher's skills - then what? Even the best administrator can't correct for a teacher who joined the profession by default or maybe to have "summers off", as it's said. Assuming most teachers in the reserve pool have earned their way into it, the discussion is, what's next for these folks. That question needs a better solution than the current one, even if administration was somehow universally excellent.
5
Most teachers in the ATR have 'earned their way into it' by have more experience and, therefore, higher salaries than the new teachers who were hired to replace them. Getting two for the price on one was the way budget-strapped principals solved their problems.
If the ATRs had been found guilty of being incompetent, they would have been fired. Tenure only guarantees a hearing, not a job.
If the ATRs had been found guilty of being incompetent, they would have been fired. Tenure only guarantees a hearing, not a job.
4
I had good, bad, and outstanding teachers. It makes a big difference if a child knows her teacher cares, is passionate, and really knows the class. As a female, I was often overlooked in science and math as not being able to learn. I had one excellent teacher in science who saw my potential and it made a huge difference. I now own an engineering and science consulting firm.
28
Betting Randi Weingarten will stand up for them - they're union after all.
15
NYC wake up! Stop paying teachers who don't want to work....and DeBlasio, stop forcing deadbeat teachers on Principals. Excellent teachers and all students should be a priority for our future
12
Sherri, the best way to do that is to not vote for deBlasio!
3
Students go to school to learn, hopefully imbued by the passion and dedication, other than sound knowledge of the subject-matter, of teachers. If the teachers are not able or willing to give their all, then they may be harming generations of students from advancing, and able to think for themselves, and learn the ways of the world, and their life within. This must be a cooperative effort. A pesky question comes to mind: are teachers paid a living wage commensurate with their noble mission, prepare our youth to face, and hopefully solve, the myriad problems of our community, and country?
7
Your question if teachers are paid a living wage? Depends the school district.
Salary information of government employees often is public. Below is a link to base salary info for Chicago Public Schools teachers and administrators.
Starting teacher salary is over $50k and rises to about $100k. I think full pensions pay about 80% of final years income for life, so including benefits and pension a 30 year career as a CPS teacher will have lifetime compensation of over $4.5 million.
http://cps.edu/About_CPS/Financial_information/Pages/EmployeePositionFil...
Relating to this story, in CPS it also is very hard to fire bad teachers. My children's school has one who is incompetent, dishonest, mean (including racist). Her pay is almost $90k + $30k in annual benefits. It would be worth paying that to keep her out of the building (though she does take max allowed sick days every year - especially around weekends and holidays, so she often is absent anyway.)
Salary information of government employees often is public. Below is a link to base salary info for Chicago Public Schools teachers and administrators.
Starting teacher salary is over $50k and rises to about $100k. I think full pensions pay about 80% of final years income for life, so including benefits and pension a 30 year career as a CPS teacher will have lifetime compensation of over $4.5 million.
http://cps.edu/About_CPS/Financial_information/Pages/EmployeePositionFil...
Relating to this story, in CPS it also is very hard to fire bad teachers. My children's school has one who is incompetent, dishonest, mean (including racist). Her pay is almost $90k + $30k in annual benefits. It would be worth paying that to keep her out of the building (though she does take max allowed sick days every year - especially around weekends and holidays, so she often is absent anyway.)
2
As my several teacher and retired teacher friends ruefully admit, teachers' unions care far less about teaching their students something useful (such as actual facts) than about providing more and more goodies for their dues-paying members.
As a consequence, we graduate young people without the skills of critical reasoning, and they duly proceed to elect people such as Trump.
So let's blame "the Russians."
As a consequence, we graduate young people without the skills of critical reasoning, and they duly proceed to elect people such as Trump.
So let's blame "the Russians."
60
This letter paints union teachers and unions with a broad brush. Further, this letter seems to blur the line between union members and union leaders, to wit: "teachers' unions care far less about teaching their students something useful (such as actual facts) than about providing more and more goodies for their dues-paying members". Isn't it the union's job to to advocate for fair wages and reasonable work conditions for teachers? Are underpaid and unrepresented teachers better? Are all unions bad or just teachers' unions? There are many fine teachers who belong to a union.
46
Infinite pay for not working is not 'fair wages' nor 'reasonable work conditions'.
Bargaining for 'Infinite pay for no work' in their contract is dereliction of duty by the Union. Yes, they should advocate for fair wages, but not when it harms the students to whom they are responsible.
Bargaining for 'Infinite pay for no work' in their contract is dereliction of duty by the Union. Yes, they should advocate for fair wages, but not when it harms the students to whom they are responsible.
8
BOROKA: Auto workers' unions are for the protection of auto workers, not to help sell cars.
Supermarket workers' unions are for the protection of workers, not for helping supermarkets sell products.
Mine workers' unions are for the protection of mine workers, not to produce better coal.
That's what unions are - For the protections of workers.
Supermarket workers' unions are for the protection of workers, not for helping supermarkets sell products.
Mine workers' unions are for the protection of mine workers, not to produce better coal.
That's what unions are - For the protections of workers.
9
Behind all bad teaching is even worse administration. As a retired educator with 40 years of teaching and counseling my experience taught me that the best administrators are the ones who were also great teachers; who have the ability to pass on that love and skill in teaching to the teachers they supervise. Gifted teachers mentoring their peers and nurturing classroom skills as well as guiding those who are unqualified out of the profession: that is the job of an administration. Unfortunately too many administrators were dreadful teachers seeking options out of the classroom and they become do nothing principals who get passed through the system. It is a failing system in spite of some gifted educators within the system and it is usually the poorest children and the least able to cope who are impacted.
I loved my work as a teacher and a counselor and have no regrets about choosing education as a profession but putting the best teachers and the best administrators in the wealthiest neighborhoods spells continued and ongoing disaster for children. I am happy to be retired but saddened by educational trends that continue to hurt the poorest and the minority's in the system. Good principals know what to do with this formula and they start by teaching teachers to be better at their job.
I loved my work as a teacher and a counselor and have no regrets about choosing education as a profession but putting the best teachers and the best administrators in the wealthiest neighborhoods spells continued and ongoing disaster for children. I am happy to be retired but saddened by educational trends that continue to hurt the poorest and the minority's in the system. Good principals know what to do with this formula and they start by teaching teachers to be better at their job.
148
While there is no doubt that many ineffective teachers go on to become ineffective administrators, the fact is that most administrations are squeezed just as much as teachers are. I say this as a 10 year teaching veteran myself. I have seen plenty of ineptitude, both in the classroom and in administration. But good principals have a dilemma, too--like teachers, they are increasingly tasked with paperwork and demands that leave them little time for the activities that actually improve student learning, and that includes meaningful observation and mentorship of new teachers.
Teachers need more support, especially new teachers. But so do administrators. And make no mistake, there are many ineffective teachers who simply do not get better no matter how much support they are given. That goes for administrators too. Education is like ANY other job--some excel, most are average, and a few really stink. If we want to improve the situation, we would do well to attract top talent (not just people who know their subjects but people who want to TEACH) by offering better salaries and benefits to teachers, along with the widespread cultural respect they enjoy in other societies.
Teachers need more support, especially new teachers. But so do administrators. And make no mistake, there are many ineffective teachers who simply do not get better no matter how much support they are given. That goes for administrators too. Education is like ANY other job--some excel, most are average, and a few really stink. If we want to improve the situation, we would do well to attract top talent (not just people who know their subjects but people who want to TEACH) by offering better salaries and benefits to teachers, along with the widespread cultural respect they enjoy in other societies.
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By checking both his Walton Family Foundation bio, and news articles, like in chalktalk, I have been able to piece this together about Marc Sternberg, the author of this piece. He graduated from Princeton in 1995, putting his date of birth about 1974. He was a Teach for America fellow in the South Bronx, received both and MBA and MEd from Harvard (out of town), and ascended all the way to an NYC High School Principal, all in a span of nine years. Six years later, he was promoted to "senior deputy chancellor." The idea that a 36 year old should be a SENIOR deputy chancellor seems to be ludicrous on its face. By 40, he had left public education for the advocacy of the Walton Family Foundation.
Caveat emptor, folks.
Caveat emptor, folks.
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