I don't resent the children born here. And not the children brought here before six. But the parents should be deported and never allowed to return. No ten years to wait to come back and then give years of any loss paid job so that they can mooch on Medicare. Illegal immigrants should never be allowed back in the US. They should be fined about a quarter of a million apiece to help offset the cost of deporting them.
7
What I fear is that identifying dreamers will result in identifying and expelling their parents. That could result in the tragic break up of families. Think about it: a dreamer who wants legal status may have to choose between becoming legal resulting in the deportation of their parents or staying hidden in order to protect their parents. What a horrific choice!
When one looks at the disruptive consequences of expelling illegal immigrants who are productive and whose only crime is illegal entry with the honorable hope for a better life for them and their families, one has to ask whether the evil wrought in the process is justifiable. Because our current employment situation is healthy and because our need for more able-bodied workers is high, now is a rare opportune time to be gracious to law-abiding, hard-working, tax paying it illegal immigrants.
We need more taxpayers to help us find the government programs. We need more workers to grow GDP close to the 3% desirable rate. We can surely be blessed by the diversity. Even Muslims who assimilate as opposed to those who promote sharia would fit the above three criteria. That constitutes the vast vast majority of Middle Eastern and Asian immigrants. Buddhists, likewise, should be welcomed. If indeed, our gracious Christian heritage is anything persuasive, we should welcome the opportunity of shared reasoning with these people groups.
When one looks at the disruptive consequences of expelling illegal immigrants who are productive and whose only crime is illegal entry with the honorable hope for a better life for them and their families, one has to ask whether the evil wrought in the process is justifiable. Because our current employment situation is healthy and because our need for more able-bodied workers is high, now is a rare opportune time to be gracious to law-abiding, hard-working, tax paying it illegal immigrants.
We need more taxpayers to help us find the government programs. We need more workers to grow GDP close to the 3% desirable rate. We can surely be blessed by the diversity. Even Muslims who assimilate as opposed to those who promote sharia would fit the above three criteria. That constitutes the vast vast majority of Middle Eastern and Asian immigrants. Buddhists, likewise, should be welcomed. If indeed, our gracious Christian heritage is anything persuasive, we should welcome the opportunity of shared reasoning with these people groups.
1
FYI DACA recipients are not helpless minors, but are young adults & older who hve earned their HS diplomas (they cld be 18, or even 16 if they're geniuses, or as old as 36, since DACAns are those who've been living in the USA continually since 2007 & were born after June 15, 1981) and are more likely than not to be old enough to be licensed vehicle drivers, hve paying jobs (the average hourly wage of a DACAn is around $17/hr, accdg to a Center for American Progress 2017 study) and go to higher schooling for skilled, in-demand academic or vocational career tracks like those in health care.
So, let's say their parents are deportable illegal aliens who are not allowed to apply even for a tourist visa for the usual 10 years post-deportation. Their DACAn adult kids & other legal US permanent resident/citizen descendants (in-laws, grandkids) can at least save up $ & vacation time to quickly fly to visit them in their typically lower cost of living homelands.
Today's migrants (unlike those who passed through Ellis Island a century ago, or those who got costly 1-way ship tickets to far-off colonies that didn't give welfare benefits to newbies for centuries) can also use affordable long-distance phone cards, Skype, Facebook Chat, Facetime, etc. to chat in real time. Fedex, UPS, USPS, Western Union, & other global chains can deliver gifts, svcs, goods, etc.
Loving DACA parents who knowingly broke laws will likely self-deport rather than risk their innocent offsprings' good US lives.
So, let's say their parents are deportable illegal aliens who are not allowed to apply even for a tourist visa for the usual 10 years post-deportation. Their DACAn adult kids & other legal US permanent resident/citizen descendants (in-laws, grandkids) can at least save up $ & vacation time to quickly fly to visit them in their typically lower cost of living homelands.
Today's migrants (unlike those who passed through Ellis Island a century ago, or those who got costly 1-way ship tickets to far-off colonies that didn't give welfare benefits to newbies for centuries) can also use affordable long-distance phone cards, Skype, Facebook Chat, Facetime, etc. to chat in real time. Fedex, UPS, USPS, Western Union, & other global chains can deliver gifts, svcs, goods, etc.
Loving DACA parents who knowingly broke laws will likely self-deport rather than risk their innocent offsprings' good US lives.
7
Ironic or sad that well meaning people that escape corrupt, crime infested, economically challenged countries, cannot or will not adapt to American culture, language and the desire to respect the law in this country.
7
Illegal aliens use fraudulently obtained Social Security numbers. They have fake drivers’ licenses, phony “green cards,” fraudulent birth certificates and any other documents that U.S. citizens and legal residents have. They falsify I-9 forms under penalty of perjury.
All felonies that citizens would be prosecuted for with no thought how a conviction would 'break up families'. Why should illegal aliens not only be exempt from the same laws citizens are prosecuted for but actually rewarded for committing those illegal acts?
All felonies that citizens would be prosecuted for with no thought how a conviction would 'break up families'. Why should illegal aliens not only be exempt from the same laws citizens are prosecuted for but actually rewarded for committing those illegal acts?
5
Pretty much the way I thought this argument would go. Not only is it cruel to deport people who were brought here as children, it's also cruel to detain or deport any member of their family, including the people responsible for crossing the border illegally. Look at the psychological toll it would take on DACA recipients!
I don't have any great interest in deporting 800,00 people or their families, when it comes right down to it. I don't like seeing people suffer anymore than anyone else does. But it is also true that letting these people stay is unfair to people who came here legally and to those who signed up for abwait list to come here legally. It is unfair to citizens and legal residents who pay to support the schools they use and the welfare -- free medical care, food stamps, etc. -- they receive. It is unfair to college students when DACA recipients receive subsidized tuition or a slot that might have gone to an American citizen. It is unfair to job seekers when wages are driven down by illegal immigrants. And yes, it is unfair to society in general when the culture is so overwhelmed with Spanish speakers who haven't assimilated or learned English. The U.S. does have a right to control its borders and specify what kind of immigration it will allow.
The majority of these people are Mexicans. I don't think it is a hardship to them if they have to go home. If any of these people are in real danger, let them apply for political asylum.
I don't have any great interest in deporting 800,00 people or their families, when it comes right down to it. I don't like seeing people suffer anymore than anyone else does. But it is also true that letting these people stay is unfair to people who came here legally and to those who signed up for abwait list to come here legally. It is unfair to citizens and legal residents who pay to support the schools they use and the welfare -- free medical care, food stamps, etc. -- they receive. It is unfair to college students when DACA recipients receive subsidized tuition or a slot that might have gone to an American citizen. It is unfair to job seekers when wages are driven down by illegal immigrants. And yes, it is unfair to society in general when the culture is so overwhelmed with Spanish speakers who haven't assimilated or learned English. The U.S. does have a right to control its borders and specify what kind of immigration it will allow.
The majority of these people are Mexicans. I don't think it is a hardship to them if they have to go home. If any of these people are in real danger, let them apply for political asylum.
13
Ironic or sad that well meaning people that escape corrupt, crime infested, economically challenged countries, cannot or will not adapt to American culture, language and the desire to respect the law in this country.
6
The illegal immigration issue is creating chaos in our country because the illegal aliens and their supporters feel that the illegal aliens are entitled to remain in the country regardless of how they arrived. We tried amnesty under Reagan and it did not work. Now we should secure our borders by any means necessary including the wall. Deport all illegal aliens starting with criminals. Insure that anyone who enters the country illegally is prohibited from ever achieving citizenship. Eliminate the family preference and the lottery system in favor of merit based citizenship for people with skills needed by the American economy. Anyone who wants to come and work here should be accommodated by a work visa system that does not convey citizenship, but allows the worker to remain in the US and work under our laws. Anyone abusing this system should be immediately deported and not allowed to ever return. Change the "anchor baby rule". Policies such as this will eliminate the chaos currently in our country.
12
I am constantly bemused by the Republicans’ claim that they favor capitalism and free markets, while despising all regulation. While I understand there are laws dealing with immigration, what compels immigration, legal or not, is the free market.
When labor is scare in the agricultural and service industries, people from Mexico and elsewhere will immigrate. When there is a shortage of US citizens who do not understand the fundamentals of mathematics, science, and technology, foreigners from throughout the world will be sought out by US corporations. Republicans cannot admit or accept that Capitalism does not align with conservative views of immigration.
I was skeptical of my college economics professors, one of whom was Bush 41’s economic advisor, who posited that racism was inconsonant with Capitalism. I am now beginning to see their point.
When labor is scare in the agricultural and service industries, people from Mexico and elsewhere will immigrate. When there is a shortage of US citizens who do not understand the fundamentals of mathematics, science, and technology, foreigners from throughout the world will be sought out by US corporations. Republicans cannot admit or accept that Capitalism does not align with conservative views of immigration.
I was skeptical of my college economics professors, one of whom was Bush 41’s economic advisor, who posited that racism was inconsonant with Capitalism. I am now beginning to see their point.
1
To actively discourage exploitative human smugglers, loan sharks, unethical US employers refusing to sensibly use E-Verify, and corrupt/incompetent overseas govts addicted to US dollar remittances (all of whom abuse waves of desperate illegal alien families), the US govt shld stop taking new DACA applications - while the US Congress should soon draft and pass an enforceable, *applicable only to the current DACA recipients (the 800K alrdy compliantly on file), points-into-green card law*.
It should be a law that gives fair merit points for what US taxpayers already paid for: their US K-12 & college/grad/professional academic schooling and cultural upbringing, w/c by now ideally shld have gained for these DACA recipients the ff. good, measurable qualities: 1) English fluency/excellence for the US workplace; 2) job market-friendly US bachelors/masters/STEM/professional (ex. RN, MD, CPA, JD, etc.)/PhD degrees or specialized vocational, in-demand skills (ex. computerized factory work that unfortunately some Americans - saddled w/ opioid/meth/whatever addictions, parental neglect leading to undiagnosed/untreated learning/physical/behavioral disorders, etc. - just cannot or will not do), and 3) jobs/self-employment/own small businesses that earn them well above minimum wage, making them steady taxpayers.
However, no visas pls for their law-breaking parents, plug physical/digital wall holes ASAP, & fine-tune RAISE Act so we vet for talents who enhance, not divide & drain, the USA.
It should be a law that gives fair merit points for what US taxpayers already paid for: their US K-12 & college/grad/professional academic schooling and cultural upbringing, w/c by now ideally shld have gained for these DACA recipients the ff. good, measurable qualities: 1) English fluency/excellence for the US workplace; 2) job market-friendly US bachelors/masters/STEM/professional (ex. RN, MD, CPA, JD, etc.)/PhD degrees or specialized vocational, in-demand skills (ex. computerized factory work that unfortunately some Americans - saddled w/ opioid/meth/whatever addictions, parental neglect leading to undiagnosed/untreated learning/physical/behavioral disorders, etc. - just cannot or will not do), and 3) jobs/self-employment/own small businesses that earn them well above minimum wage, making them steady taxpayers.
However, no visas pls for their law-breaking parents, plug physical/digital wall holes ASAP, & fine-tune RAISE Act so we vet for talents who enhance, not divide & drain, the USA.
5
I am a progressive. I agree it's fundamentally unfair to deport people brought to America as children, who have been educated here, may already have children of their own here (i.e., US citizens), and abide by the laws here.
But I am frustrated by the presumption common among my fellow progressives that unlawful immigrants gain a 'right' to stay in the country of their choice. American citizenship is fairly expansive; I know American citizens, born abroad, who never touched American soil until adulthood. None of the countries in which they were born (the UK, Japan, etc) recognizes birthright citizenship to the child of two lawfully-present foreign-citizen parents. None of my born-and-raised abroad friends has a legal claim to live in their countries of birth.
My unpopular compromise is this: amnesty for the Dreamers and their parents, and an end to future birthright citizenship. This compromise won't completely satisfy anyone, but it will give the Dreamers and their families a future, while stopping some of the most egregious abuses of birthright citizenship like 'maternity tourism' from wealthy foreign nations. Maybe if a baseline compromise can give something to each side of the debate, a real reform for more lawful American immigration can be reached.
But I am frustrated by the presumption common among my fellow progressives that unlawful immigrants gain a 'right' to stay in the country of their choice. American citizenship is fairly expansive; I know American citizens, born abroad, who never touched American soil until adulthood. None of the countries in which they were born (the UK, Japan, etc) recognizes birthright citizenship to the child of two lawfully-present foreign-citizen parents. None of my born-and-raised abroad friends has a legal claim to live in their countries of birth.
My unpopular compromise is this: amnesty for the Dreamers and their parents, and an end to future birthright citizenship. This compromise won't completely satisfy anyone, but it will give the Dreamers and their families a future, while stopping some of the most egregious abuses of birthright citizenship like 'maternity tourism' from wealthy foreign nations. Maybe if a baseline compromise can give something to each side of the debate, a real reform for more lawful American immigration can be reached.
7
That's not exactly true. In at least some EU countries, a child born to foreign parents can gain citizenship if they can show that they have lived in that country their entire life.
DACA recipients miss the mark on character and quality. Instead of gratitude and humility for a country that gave them so much opportunity, they resort to identity politics, division, profanity, threats and disrespect. DACA recipients clamor publicly about their hardship and dream, yet ignore and trample on the hardship and dream of others. DACA recipients have the same message--it's always what about me, who must support me, and what laws can be manipulated to benefit me. It's never about what can I do to show respect for America or repay this great nation for not turning its back on my family when we had nowhere to go, no place to live, nothing to eat. DACA recipients may think growing up in America and speaking English makes them Americans, but they're wrong. It's altruism, self-reflection, charity, and fairness that are core American values. It's about the collective good for ALL AMERICANS, not "me" politics that represent America.
13
How do these young people "ignore and trample on the hardship and dreams of others"?
2
By insisting that their crimnal parents,many of whom have stolen other peoples indentity wish to stay in the US,outways any laws. They should return with their parents and fight back to improve their homelands.
This issue is very controversial to discuss and can spark many different emotions. Some people claim that we cannot blame the minors for entering our country illegally because its the parents that chose to make the decision. After the minors grew up, there is no doubt that they have made a difference to our community, that they’re brilliant and intelligent people. Immigration should definitely be encouraged because they can help the country thrive.
Other people claim that the United States is a country of law and order. The laws were created for a reason which is to make sure that we don’t fall into chaos. From the time the immigrants from England came to the United States, we have been a country of immigrants, but we became a country of laws after the American Revolution to prevent another catastrophe. Obama created DACA as an executive order which did not pass through congress. In order to make a bill a law, it must pass through Congress, making DACA an unofficial law. If minors and other immigrants enter legally then they’re welcome and they can use their knowledge. We are a flourishing nation and as much as we need them in our country, their home countries need them desperately.
We can take either side of the issue. They both have important messages that need to be considered. There has been so much debate about this topic because we care about our values. However, your values might prevent you from listening to what the other side has to say.
Other people claim that the United States is a country of law and order. The laws were created for a reason which is to make sure that we don’t fall into chaos. From the time the immigrants from England came to the United States, we have been a country of immigrants, but we became a country of laws after the American Revolution to prevent another catastrophe. Obama created DACA as an executive order which did not pass through congress. In order to make a bill a law, it must pass through Congress, making DACA an unofficial law. If minors and other immigrants enter legally then they’re welcome and they can use their knowledge. We are a flourishing nation and as much as we need them in our country, their home countries need them desperately.
We can take either side of the issue. They both have important messages that need to be considered. There has been so much debate about this topic because we care about our values. However, your values might prevent you from listening to what the other side has to say.
3
The nation's immigration crisis was created by the federal government that refused to enforce its own laws that were created to protect the public and American jobs. It's time to stop wasting our energy arguing about whether our system is "broken" and begin asking ourselves whether we are still a sovereign nation with the right to determine who and how many people we should be allowing in. Finally, DACA was created by an executive action, not an executive order. There is a major difference between the two.
10
If they don't like what is dished out here, let them and their family go back to their own country. Perhaps they can squeeze a better deal out of their own country. Their last freebie - a plane ride.
16
These people work, statistically they work harder than you do. Your dismissive attitude is unwarranted, and repugnant.
3
For some reason, throughout this editorial, the NY times describes ILLEGAL ALIENS as immigrants or undocumented immigrants or Dreamers. Based on the law of the United States of America, all of these people are illegal immigrants and subject to the law just as american citizens are. To suggest that illegal aliens who are breaking the law are somehow NOT subject to the rule of law is ludicrous.
IF, the NY Times editorial staff and editors want to be taken seriously, the first thing they need to do is stop substituting the word immigrant to describe these people. The DACA people have been granted up to a two year extension. Illegal aliens, all 11 million of them, have no such protection under the law and neither will DACA illgal aliens within the next 24 months.
One more time in case its slipped through your filters. The term is illegal alien, not "immigrant". Immigrants are people who are in america lawfully.
These 11 million illegal aliens are NOT here lawfully.
Thanks
IF, the NY Times editorial staff and editors want to be taken seriously, the first thing they need to do is stop substituting the word immigrant to describe these people. The DACA people have been granted up to a two year extension. Illegal aliens, all 11 million of them, have no such protection under the law and neither will DACA illgal aliens within the next 24 months.
One more time in case its slipped through your filters. The term is illegal alien, not "immigrant". Immigrants are people who are in america lawfully.
These 11 million illegal aliens are NOT here lawfully.
Thanks
24
Is it dishonorable to leave destitute, violent, poor education systems so that children can thrive?????
These folks would happily have come legally if our nation had been responsible in setting up appropriate and orderly immigration systems. Get that: this mess is the fault of an electorate that bought racist, anti-immigrant dysfunctional barriers.
Calling them illegal without being honest about failure to set up orderly systems is disinenguous. That implies we have a moral obligation to right our pervasive persisting pathological immigration system.
These folks would happily have come legally if our nation had been responsible in setting up appropriate and orderly immigration systems. Get that: this mess is the fault of an electorate that bought racist, anti-immigrant dysfunctional barriers.
Calling them illegal without being honest about failure to set up orderly systems is disinenguous. That implies we have a moral obligation to right our pervasive persisting pathological immigration system.
1
Have you had your identity stolen by an illegal alien? I have 3 times,still tryong to fix my credit. None went to jail- 2 jumped bail, the third just paid a fine. Your ideas may change if you are robbed too.
In a way this reminds me of North Korea--when they do that, and we do nothing--what will they do next? We already have approaching 10% of the population of Mexico living illegally in our country--the problem being Mexico is in love with the money they send home, Democrats hope to make them legal and dependant so they will vote Democrat, and Republicans love the fact that illegals are depressing working men's wages 10-15%--probably the best we will be able to manage will be to trade Dreamers for the wall. When you subtract the value of all that "work nobody wants to do from the entitlements they consume illegals cost us all about 60 billion dollars a year--there are far more unfortunate people in the world than we can possibly sustain.
Stan
Stan
21
Give amnesty to one group and you set a precedent for other groups to demand the same. The only solution for the US is to enforce the law without exceptions.
21
This progressive supports enforcement of all existing immigration laws. Not everyone of the billions who would potentially want to move here or to another developed country can do so and those who broke laws to get here are, in my opinion, the last people we want here. Children should not be punished for the crimes of their parents, but neither should they get to keep ill-gotten gains. If we are really humanitarian, we can be happy that these young people, who are in general much better educated than they would have been had their parents not crossed the U.S. border where they were educated by U.S. taxpayers, can go make contributions to the countries in which they hold citizenship. Without the rule of law, everything else breaks down. Talk of a Green New Deal needs to include talk of population control. It's decades past due. Growth at all costs is suicide.
23
Amnesties, whether DACA or other broader amnesties, beget more future amnesties.
The question that everyone legal immigrants and citizens alike, must ask is how much more immigration can the nation cope with. Does the writer of this piece have a specific number that she'd like to see? One million annually average over the past two decades is huge, and unsustainable
A few years back, the research organization "Remapping Debate" asked several immigration activists what they felt the right number of immigrants would be. They refused to answer.
Instead of dealing with intangibles like how unfair ending DACA is, let's concentrate on the reality that there are limits to growth, and immigration must be controlled.
"Remapping Debate" research here:
http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/rd-immigration-advocates-are-ther...
The question that everyone legal immigrants and citizens alike, must ask is how much more immigration can the nation cope with. Does the writer of this piece have a specific number that she'd like to see? One million annually average over the past two decades is huge, and unsustainable
A few years back, the research organization "Remapping Debate" asked several immigration activists what they felt the right number of immigrants would be. They refused to answer.
Instead of dealing with intangibles like how unfair ending DACA is, let's concentrate on the reality that there are limits to growth, and immigration must be controlled.
"Remapping Debate" research here:
http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/rd-immigration-advocates-are-ther...
19
Since the issues here are that the kids were brought by the parents and they cannot be held responsible for the parents action, why not allow the kids to stay by granting residency until they turn adults and once adults they may become citizens. But, they may never sponsor for residency or citizenship the parents who brought them here illegally?
3
Because those parents are still unlawfully living in America, and many people would be loathe to expose their parents to deportation.
1
Senator Obama did not vote for the Bush proposal. He also did not advocate for immigration reform when Democrats controlled the Congress during the first two years of his Presidency. His illegal, autocratic decision to implement DACA in 2012 to bolster his re-election prospects poisoned the waters for any notion of bipartisan immigration reform. To pretend that Republicans are responsible for the fact that the DACA participants are in trouble now because of Republicans is laughable.
14
The American Dream has become a meaningless promise to many. While it may suggest a better life to immigrants, the American lifestyle leaves illegal immigrants in fear of themselves and their children being deported or families being separated. Immigration is extremely controversial as protecting the country is important and federal laws should not go unfollowed, however where is the line between enforcing laws without becoming hateful and prejudice? Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals allowed thousands of children to receive deferred action from deportation and a work permit. Now, Trump wants to remove this privilege from these people due to actions that are not their own. These individuals entered the country as children or as infants. Each of the recipients passed an extensive background check, pays taxes, and is a student or has a job.They have grown up in America, gone to school in America, and become Americans. This poses a moral question. How has a place that promises life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to all, going to strip these ideals from individuals who have been here their entire lives? Furthermore, what does it say about us as a country by judging these children based off of where they were born? By terminating DACA, hundreds of thousands of individuals will be blocked from achieving their goals and dreams. As Congress moves forward in the next six months, we must find a way to create a balance between providing false hope and enforcing federal law.
2
"They have grown up in America, gone to school in America, and become Americans."
DACA recipients are no longer children, so they do assume responsibility for their actions. At eighteen, all DACA recipients must apply for legal paperwork to obtain legal status. Because DACA is "deferred status," this does not guarantee permanent status. I apologize in advance if my understanding of DACA is lacking.
President Trump is correct to allow Congress an opportunity to legislate for COMPREHENSIVE immigration reform. This is the LEGAL and LAWFUL approach to DACA's current predicament. Immigration reform through congressional approval must be COMPREHENSIVE, for this is the only objective approach to the immigration issue.
DACA recipients are no longer children, so they do assume responsibility for their actions. At eighteen, all DACA recipients must apply for legal paperwork to obtain legal status. Because DACA is "deferred status," this does not guarantee permanent status. I apologize in advance if my understanding of DACA is lacking.
President Trump is correct to allow Congress an opportunity to legislate for COMPREHENSIVE immigration reform. This is the LEGAL and LAWFUL approach to DACA's current predicament. Immigration reform through congressional approval must be COMPREHENSIVE, for this is the only objective approach to the immigration issue.
4
"campaigns designed to help Dreamers could undermine efforts to pass comprehensive immigration reforms. These rifts were largely resolved when Dreamers rallied behind efforts to help their parents after President Obama issued the executive order on DACA."
In other words, so-called immigration activists really only support full amnesty for all illegal immigrants living here and de facto open borders.
They will never compromise and supporting DACA is only acceptable if it supports those ends. The arrogance and entitlement is breathtaking.
In other words, so-called immigration activists really only support full amnesty for all illegal immigrants living here and de facto open borders.
They will never compromise and supporting DACA is only acceptable if it supports those ends. The arrogance and entitlement is breathtaking.
21
Trump will never sign comprehensive immigration into law, so "waiting" for that to happen is absurd.
The Dream Act should pass as a standalone act, so that this extremely urgent problem is finally solved, and THEN everybody, Dreamers included, can start fighting hard to elect a Congress in 2018 that supports the 2013 comprehensive immigration bill, so that when in 2020 a Democratic president can take over, everything has been put in place to finally sign comprehensive reform into law.
It makes no sense to ask certain immigrants to "wait" in order to get everything done at once. All change, in a democracy, is step by step change.
The Dream Act should pass as a standalone act, so that this extremely urgent problem is finally solved, and THEN everybody, Dreamers included, can start fighting hard to elect a Congress in 2018 that supports the 2013 comprehensive immigration bill, so that when in 2020 a Democratic president can take over, everything has been put in place to finally sign comprehensive reform into law.
It makes no sense to ask certain immigrants to "wait" in order to get everything done at once. All change, in a democracy, is step by step change.
1
Don't endanger the Dreamers' parents!!
How does passing the Dream Act endanger Dreamers' parents?
Rescinding DACA further weakens citizens' trust in governmental institutions.
It provides further evidence of just what Trump-Bannon "deconstructionism" is all about. Trump-Bannon seek to further demoralize an already cynical voting public. A demoralized and cynical public will more readily accept kleptocracy as unexceptionable--as in Putin's Russia.
Is it any wonder that Trump hails Putin as an effective leader?
It provides further evidence of just what Trump-Bannon "deconstructionism" is all about. Trump-Bannon seek to further demoralize an already cynical voting public. A demoralized and cynical public will more readily accept kleptocracy as unexceptionable--as in Putin's Russia.
Is it any wonder that Trump hails Putin as an effective leader?
2
IF, someone entered the United States illegally then they are a lawbreaker.
US law is explicitly clear about what is to happen to illegal aliens. They are to be detained, fined, jailed and deported.
Its a very basic and simple concept. IF, you are not a citizen of the United States of America and IF you entered and have remained in the United States illegally, then as a lawbreaker, you are subject to the full force of the law.
People who break the law and then complain about being punished for the laws they broke have some very confused ideas about law and order. Detain and deport.
US law is explicitly clear about what is to happen to illegal aliens. They are to be detained, fined, jailed and deported.
Its a very basic and simple concept. IF, you are not a citizen of the United States of America and IF you entered and have remained in the United States illegally, then as a lawbreaker, you are subject to the full force of the law.
People who break the law and then complain about being punished for the laws they broke have some very confused ideas about law and order. Detain and deport.
23
A majority the GOP in congress are afraid of losing the racist vote. Charlottesville was the test they failed. And they continue to fail to stand up against racism. It's all on the table now.
They can all apply for green cards. The total number of green cards available each year under the preferred employer and worker category should be doubled or tripled for the next five years or so. Non-dreamer applicants already in the pipeline should be given priority for green cards over the dreamers. The dreamers should leave the country if they don't yet have a green card - I don't know if that is practicable but it is only fair. Others applying legally wait for years outside the US.
The naturalization clock starts ticking when the dreamer receives a green card, not when he or she entered the US or when he or she became a DACA. Time spent as an illegal alien and on "Obama time" should not count as citizenship eligibility.
Any dreamer who commits a crime is ineligible for a green card and should be deported. Non-dreamer illegal aliens in this country cannot apply for a green card and cannot be sponsored by dreamers with green cards.
The naturalization clock starts ticking when the dreamer receives a green card, not when he or she entered the US or when he or she became a DACA. Time spent as an illegal alien and on "Obama time" should not count as citizenship eligibility.
Any dreamer who commits a crime is ineligible for a green card and should be deported. Non-dreamer illegal aliens in this country cannot apply for a green card and cannot be sponsored by dreamers with green cards.
11
Mr. Writer, this would be wonderful opportunity for the parents and their children to return to country of origin (25% from Mexico) and, like the Peace Corps, make life better there.
That would be fair to legal Americans and the 500,000+ overseas who are legally waiting for their green cards. Their rights have been ignored for 25 years -- enough is enough.
That would be fair to legal Americans and the 500,000+ overseas who are legally waiting for their green cards. Their rights have been ignored for 25 years -- enough is enough.
33
FYI: DACA recipients do NOT get privileges other Americans or undocumented aliens don't have.
It's just that because they're clearly Americans (having grown up here, speaking often only English, knowing only American culture etc. - compared to someone coming in through a H1B visa), AND have done nothing wrong at all, that it's not fair to punish them eternally for the mistakes their parents made and force them to live in the shadows forever.
That's why for years already, the vast majority of the American people support the bipartisan (introduced by Senators Orrin HAtch (R) and Durbin (D)) Dream Act.
And if you know that this doesn't change ANYTHING for those waiting for their green cards, AND that it adds $400 billion to the GDP, then what's your problem with it, actually?
And remember, DACA or the Dream Act do NOT guarantee no matter what child of illegal aliens living here for more than a decade already DACA status: only those who have no criminal record AND for six years work very hard, obtain it, and only after those six years do they have a CHANCE (not guarantee) to become citizens, IF they apply just like anybody else.
So again, what's your problem here?
It's just that because they're clearly Americans (having grown up here, speaking often only English, knowing only American culture etc. - compared to someone coming in through a H1B visa), AND have done nothing wrong at all, that it's not fair to punish them eternally for the mistakes their parents made and force them to live in the shadows forever.
That's why for years already, the vast majority of the American people support the bipartisan (introduced by Senators Orrin HAtch (R) and Durbin (D)) Dream Act.
And if you know that this doesn't change ANYTHING for those waiting for their green cards, AND that it adds $400 billion to the GDP, then what's your problem with it, actually?
And remember, DACA or the Dream Act do NOT guarantee no matter what child of illegal aliens living here for more than a decade already DACA status: only those who have no criminal record AND for six years work very hard, obtain it, and only after those six years do they have a CHANCE (not guarantee) to become citizens, IF they apply just like anybody else.
So again, what's your problem here?
3
The "problem" seems to be ignorance and many misinformed people who clearly do not understand the convoluted immigration process. The same people are unaware that dreamers are working and paying taxes for many years and cherish America. It is hard to teach those who don't want to listen to the facts.
1
Is it just an impossible task for journalists to stop calling illegal aliens, immigrants? Immigrants are not a problem at all. It's those that ignore our laws and illegally enter this country that are the problem. Most all Americans
are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
33
It is really extremely simple.
Stop using the disingenuous modifier "undocumented," as if they had accidentally lost their documentation, and use the correct description for these people: illegal immigrants.
The inane argument that no person can be illegal needs to be countered with the truth that using the phrase illegal immigrant does not say the person is illegal, only that that person immigrated illegally with full and premeditated disregard of not only our country's laws but also every other person who has applied properly for his or her green card and is patiently waiting their turn, and did not deserve to have scofflaws jump in line ahead of them.
No, most illegal immigrants are not rapists or drug traffickers, but neither are they heroes, as far too many progressives seem to treat them. And the fact that they have worked hard after their initial violation of our laws, does not excuse their initial act in this country, their refusal to follow our law. I am sure there are thieves who worked hard after stealing a pile of money to jump start their pathway through life.
Stop using the disingenuous modifier "undocumented," as if they had accidentally lost their documentation, and use the correct description for these people: illegal immigrants.
The inane argument that no person can be illegal needs to be countered with the truth that using the phrase illegal immigrant does not say the person is illegal, only that that person immigrated illegally with full and premeditated disregard of not only our country's laws but also every other person who has applied properly for his or her green card and is patiently waiting their turn, and did not deserve to have scofflaws jump in line ahead of them.
No, most illegal immigrants are not rapists or drug traffickers, but neither are they heroes, as far too many progressives seem to treat them. And the fact that they have worked hard after their initial violation of our laws, does not excuse their initial act in this country, their refusal to follow our law. I am sure there are thieves who worked hard after stealing a pile of money to jump start their pathway through life.
15
Oh, Come on! William, call them illegal immigrants if you do not want to call them undocumended, but how can you call your neighbor of twenty years "aliens"? It is both hurtful and untrue.
These are the people who packaged the meat that you eat and harvested the vegetables on your dinner table. These are the people who took care of your invalid old mother when no American worker would change her soiled diaper. They may have broken the law but often the broke the law with help from those who profited from their cheap labor.
Their children came here for no fault of their own. You can blame the parents or the rich plutocrats who imported illegal labor by the bus load while the police looked the other way. These plutocrats and the police that looked the other way committed worse crimes than the parents. Most of these parent are extremely hard working hombres. But a child of 2, 8, or even 14 that was brought here illegally broke NO law. Some of these children excelled in kindergarten and continued being top in their class all the way into college. These are the dreamers who are probably more American than you are in terms of language, love of country, obedience to our laws, or if not better then your equals.
Why call them aliens? They are not from another world. They have been part of your world for a real long time regardless of their legal status. They are immigrants just like you and me.
These are the people who packaged the meat that you eat and harvested the vegetables on your dinner table. These are the people who took care of your invalid old mother when no American worker would change her soiled diaper. They may have broken the law but often the broke the law with help from those who profited from their cheap labor.
Their children came here for no fault of their own. You can blame the parents or the rich plutocrats who imported illegal labor by the bus load while the police looked the other way. These plutocrats and the police that looked the other way committed worse crimes than the parents. Most of these parent are extremely hard working hombres. But a child of 2, 8, or even 14 that was brought here illegally broke NO law. Some of these children excelled in kindergarten and continued being top in their class all the way into college. These are the dreamers who are probably more American than you are in terms of language, love of country, obedience to our laws, or if not better then your equals.
Why call them aliens? They are not from another world. They have been part of your world for a real long time regardless of their legal status. They are immigrants just like you and me.
8
It's all part of the lefty liberal "big lie" that we MUST accept illegals and have open borders, amnesty and continual illegal immigration.
9
Amnesty for dreamers, given that they were brought here as kids, and given the way Trump has jerked them around, is reasonable. But amnesty for dreamers without enforcement--a national, mandatory E-Verify to kill the incentive for illegal immigration, and severe penalties for heads of companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants, will encourage more illegal immigration. So will amnesty for dreamers' parents.
However, since dreamers represent nearly a million who will want jobs, and since both the NYT and the New Yorker have run articles saying that half the jobs in the US are likely to become automated in the next 15-20 years, amnestying the dreamers makes it more critical to end chain migration, so-called birthright citizenship, and greatly reduce legal immigration, as per the Cotton-Perdue legislation.
Moreover, with climate destruction rearing its ugly head in the form of Harvey and Irma, and since the US is the major industrialized nation with the greatest greenhouse emissions per capita, it has become ever more critical for us to stabilize our population, which again means that we need to greatly reduce immigration. 200,000 would be a reasonable number; the Cotton Perdue legislation, which mandates reduction to half a million, would at least be a start.
However, since dreamers represent nearly a million who will want jobs, and since both the NYT and the New Yorker have run articles saying that half the jobs in the US are likely to become automated in the next 15-20 years, amnestying the dreamers makes it more critical to end chain migration, so-called birthright citizenship, and greatly reduce legal immigration, as per the Cotton-Perdue legislation.
Moreover, with climate destruction rearing its ugly head in the form of Harvey and Irma, and since the US is the major industrialized nation with the greatest greenhouse emissions per capita, it has become ever more critical for us to stabilize our population, which again means that we need to greatly reduce immigration. 200,000 would be a reasonable number; the Cotton Perdue legislation, which mandates reduction to half a million, would at least be a start.
18
Amnesty -- been there done that. Yet another failed Reagan initiative. And what did it bring us -- 11 million + newly illegal immigrants, illegal after amnesty.
DACA recipients are in an entirely different position than other illegal immigrants, and while one can understand their desire to make life easier for their parents and other relatives, there is absolutely no rationale for bootstrapping other illegal immigrants on DACA. In fact, it is appalling.
DACA recipients are in an entirely different position than other illegal immigrants, and while one can understand their desire to make life easier for their parents and other relatives, there is absolutely no rationale for bootstrapping other illegal immigrants on DACA. In fact, it is appalling.
13
Reagan agreed to an amnesty (with ENFORCEMENT) in 1986. Today, it is 99.9% impossible for a non-Democrat to win a statewide California election.
No more amnesty. One idiocy is enough, thank you.
No more amnesty. One idiocy is enough, thank you.
15
Limited amnesty. Permanent legal residence, provided they are not convicted of crimes, but no path to citizenship. they children will be citizens, but they will not.
5
What DREAMERS should support is birthright reform in return for DREAMER amnesty.
11
DACA - key word - deferred, meaning put off (an action or event) to a later time; or postpone. What part of that says permanent? This is just pure silliness.
Set that aside as the dreamers will be taken care of. As for all other illegal immigrants, the only deferred action was that which the last admin pretended to give them. We have immigration laws for a reason, just like we have speed limits and other laws for specific reasons. If you don't like the law, don't follow it, but know that there are consequences for that choice. To complain about getting consequences when you know they exist is absurd and pure stupidity.
If you want to have a conversation about the merits of open borders, then sit down and let's talk. Otherwise,.....
Set that aside as the dreamers will be taken care of. As for all other illegal immigrants, the only deferred action was that which the last admin pretended to give them. We have immigration laws for a reason, just like we have speed limits and other laws for specific reasons. If you don't like the law, don't follow it, but know that there are consequences for that choice. To complain about getting consequences when you know they exist is absurd and pure stupidity.
If you want to have a conversation about the merits of open borders, then sit down and let's talk. Otherwise,.....
24
Welcome ALL legal immigrants.
America needs more like you.
America needs more like you.
8
The "law is the law" logic he Attorney General and others appear to embrace in the DACA issue raises some interesting questions in a broader context. The same rationale can be applied to the widespread abuse of opiates in states like Ohio and Kentucky. It has become fashionable to refer to this as a public health crisis and seek money for treatment and rehabilitation. But by the Attorney General's logic it is first and foremost a law enforcement matter. Failure to arrest and prosecute thousands of truck drivers, unemployed factory workers, housewives, and others guilty of felony abuse of narcotics amounts to aiding and abetting the scourge of drug smugglers, peddlers, and cartel enforcers. Recent articles in the New York Times underscore the challenge industries face in finding drug-free workers. When is Jeff Sessions going to show the same resolve enforcing the country's laws against narcotics sale and abuse that he bring to rounding up 12-year-olds who entered the country with their parents? Or does he have a particular interest in dodging enforcement of our narcotics laws?
4
It is liberals who pretend that drug addiction is an illness, and that drug addicts should not go to jail. There are more drug addicts in blue cities than in rural red areas, so how's that gonna work. What is newsworthy is that historically drug abuse has been more of an urban problem than a rural problem.
3
Fatal flaw -- those Ohioans are legal citizens. Illegal aliens are not legal citizens.
Don't want to obey immigration laws? Imagine if tens of millions of legal Americans did not want to "voluntarily comply" with IRS laws -- dare you to try.
Don't want to obey immigration laws? Imagine if tens of millions of legal Americans did not want to "voluntarily comply" with IRS laws -- dare you to try.
6
I guess you haven't been to RURAL West Virginia lately....
'Even then, they worried about what to do if Congress linked the extension of DACA’s protections with a broader enforcement crackdown. '
We must never have immigration reform that includes an instant amnesty or an extension for DACA followed by later enforcement. There will never be any true enforcement. After the extension, there will be a series of challenges followed by rulings that will delay any true enforcement for years. Once the Supreme Court clears the way on one issue, another entity will simply challenge another aspect of the law, which will wind its way through the courts for months. Trump is in the WH now in part because the left seems to want no effective enforcement of immigration laws. Most of us do.
Any amnesty preceding enforcement will simply be amnesty followed by delay in enforcement, followed by more illegal entry, including minor children, while the delay is sorted out. This will be followed by more requests for a new amnesty to be followed by enforcement, which in turn is again delayed; in short, rolling amnesties on into the future. To grant amnesty to the 'dreamers' merely ensures there will be plenty more of them down the road.
Rolling amnesties with little or no enforcement amounts to open borders. We will have placed who gets into the US into the hands of whoever can get here. How is that working out for Europe?
Enforcement must come first and alone and deportations must continue throughout. Did we learn nothing from the 1986 amnesty?
We must never have immigration reform that includes an instant amnesty or an extension for DACA followed by later enforcement. There will never be any true enforcement. After the extension, there will be a series of challenges followed by rulings that will delay any true enforcement for years. Once the Supreme Court clears the way on one issue, another entity will simply challenge another aspect of the law, which will wind its way through the courts for months. Trump is in the WH now in part because the left seems to want no effective enforcement of immigration laws. Most of us do.
Any amnesty preceding enforcement will simply be amnesty followed by delay in enforcement, followed by more illegal entry, including minor children, while the delay is sorted out. This will be followed by more requests for a new amnesty to be followed by enforcement, which in turn is again delayed; in short, rolling amnesties on into the future. To grant amnesty to the 'dreamers' merely ensures there will be plenty more of them down the road.
Rolling amnesties with little or no enforcement amounts to open borders. We will have placed who gets into the US into the hands of whoever can get here. How is that working out for Europe?
Enforcement must come first and alone and deportations must continue throughout. Did we learn nothing from the 1986 amnesty?
18
We must never have immigration reform that includes amnesty. What you mean is we must never have that again. Reagan and his Republican cronies enacted amnesty and it has been a disaster like most of Reagan's initiatives.
6
Obama created a humanitarian crisis when he enacted DACA. Central Americans sent their children with human traffickers to the US. How many of those unaccompanied minors were killed or traumatized?
The amnesty in the 1980's created the expectation that there would be another one down the road.
The amnesty in the 1980's created the expectation that there would be another one down the road.
13
Did we learn anything from the 1986 amnesty? NO! obviously NOT!
Because lefty liberals loved that -- amnesty, but continued illegal immigration until today, we have 25 million illegals and so many anchor babies, we can't even count them all.
The GOAL of lefty liberalism to create a HUGE hispanic demographic that will always vote Democratic. With that power, they would have absolute control of all government, and win every election -- and could impose the high taxes and social engineering of their dreams!!!!
Because lefty liberals loved that -- amnesty, but continued illegal immigration until today, we have 25 million illegals and so many anchor babies, we can't even count them all.
The GOAL of lefty liberalism to create a HUGE hispanic demographic that will always vote Democratic. With that power, they would have absolute control of all government, and win every election -- and could impose the high taxes and social engineering of their dreams!!!!
8