As a penalty, the Red Sox should forfeit every win against the Yankees that they've made this season. If that knocks them out of the playoffs, so be it.
9
Just another example, similar to the telescope in center field before the "shot heard round the world" in 1951.
The Red Sox just used the best current technology available to effect what has been going on since that big game played in Hoboken 150 yrs. ago. Boston has a large tech community so it's not that surprising they chose an advanced method. But then it begs the question as to why the Giants and A's residing in the shadow of Silicon Valley seem to still be using 19th Century methods.
6
kick em out.
2
It seems the Sawx will lose by forfeiture... One or more games... I don't see them as a team winning it all anyway...
2
“Cheating is not merely countenanced in baseball, it is loved.”
-John Thorn, baseball historian
-John Thorn, baseball historian
4
"Everybody does it" is the Nixon defense. And just as it was malarkey when used to defend Nixon, it is malarkey when used to defend the Red Sox. Pedroia is a smarmy individual. Not surprised he was involved.
2
And still the Eastern Sportsteams Preferred Nuts Network considers these two teams to be the favorites of the entire sports world. Is there ever a Yankees, Red Sox series not broadcast nationally on either Fox or ESPN?
1
First off the is the New York Times. Am I supposed to be so naive as to expect the sports reporters to remain objective when writing a story on how a Boston team beat the Yankees at their own game of stealing signs from the catcher?? Oh, and I love the references to the hits that Boston got when they had someone on second--more than suggesting causality in the eventual loss to the Bosox. I'm now going to go back to all those games we lost to the Yanks and find some obscure stat that shows a correlation between a Yankee on base and observing our catcher and our eventual loss to the Bronx Bombers. Give me a break. Sore losers.
1
Interesting to watch Bostonians and New Yorkers lecture each other about morality. Pass the popcorn
3
Don't the Yankees use streaming cameras from center field to the dugout to steal signs?
3
First, sign-stealing isn't against the rules. It's part of the game.
Yankee's manager Joe Girardi, always a straight-shooter, said "We assume every team tries to do something."
Even the Yankees?
"You can assume whatever you want," he said.
In other words, of course the Yankees, like every other MLB team, steal signals. The big deal is supposedly the electronic angle. It's hard not to suspect gamesmanship here.
Supposedly the evidence is clear, almost comical. But do the Yankees also practice espionage? Mum's the word.
Second, whatever advantage sign-stealing provides is marginal at best.
For example, CBS News (always New York-centric) used a clip of Rafael Devers' dramatic 9th inning home run off Aroldis Chapman last August to illustrate its story.
Problem is, there was nobody on second base at the time to relay a stolen sign to Devers. Not that it would have been helpful. Everybody in the ballpark knew a fastball was coming in that situation. Chapman throws so hard that if batters don't assume he's bringing heat, they can't possibly hit it.
The pitch Devers hit was clocked at 103 mph.
So could a stolen sign help with pitch location? Maybe if you assume Chapman can hit his target, which he pretty much cannot.
Thinking that he could might get very dangerous at 103 mph--one reason a lot of players want nothing to do with stolen signs.
This whole controversy strikes me as more of a sports columnist's dream than a scandal.
Yankee's manager Joe Girardi, always a straight-shooter, said "We assume every team tries to do something."
Even the Yankees?
"You can assume whatever you want," he said.
In other words, of course the Yankees, like every other MLB team, steal signals. The big deal is supposedly the electronic angle. It's hard not to suspect gamesmanship here.
Supposedly the evidence is clear, almost comical. But do the Yankees also practice espionage? Mum's the word.
Second, whatever advantage sign-stealing provides is marginal at best.
For example, CBS News (always New York-centric) used a clip of Rafael Devers' dramatic 9th inning home run off Aroldis Chapman last August to illustrate its story.
Problem is, there was nobody on second base at the time to relay a stolen sign to Devers. Not that it would have been helpful. Everybody in the ballpark knew a fastball was coming in that situation. Chapman throws so hard that if batters don't assume he's bringing heat, they can't possibly hit it.
The pitch Devers hit was clocked at 103 mph.
So could a stolen sign help with pitch location? Maybe if you assume Chapman can hit his target, which he pretty much cannot.
Thinking that he could might get very dangerous at 103 mph--one reason a lot of players want nothing to do with stolen signs.
This whole controversy strikes me as more of a sports columnist's dream than a scandal.
3
New England Pats, Bosox is a pattern developing here?
3
It's entertainment, folks. Stealing signs, watering down the infield, freezing baseballs, Vaseline and belt buckle scrapes by pitchers on the ball, corked bats, etc.
Bottom line:The pitcher has to make the pitch, the batter has to make the hit, the fielder has to make the catch. Get over it.
I would be more concerned about the steroid use.
Bottom line:The pitcher has to make the pitch, the batter has to make the hit, the fielder has to make the catch. Get over it.
I would be more concerned about the steroid use.
2
The players on their own most likely did not think this scheme up, too many steps and too tech savvy - probably the video crew with too much time on their hands came up with this. This is not excusing the video crew, this does take stealing signs out of - just part of the game category, or players just looking for an edge.
2
i guess they learned from bill belichick and the patriots
1
It's Boston teams. Patriots led the way.
1
First the Patriots spy on opponents' practice sessions, interrupt communications during games and deflate footballs. Now the Red Sox use electrinc devices to steal signals.
Is there something in the air in New England?
Is there something in the air in New England?
3
Wow...way to make America proud. Cheating at our national pastime.
2
"If you're not cheating, you're not trying."- Eddie Guerrero
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/eddieguerr648708.html
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/eddieguerr648708.html
2
Are the New England Patriots and the Boston Red Sox representative of New England values?
3
I'm sorry, but cheating by any means, whether it is effective, commonplace, or done by both teams in a certain game, obliterates the point of observing a sport.
2
Really, this has been going on since Baseball began. Everyone tries to steal signs. Nothing to see here.
6
They didn't use an Apple Watch to steal signs. The watch was simply used to communicate to dugout rather than any other means of communication. It's not against the rules to steal signs. The Red Sox are guilty of being lazy. Normally the person in clubhouse or whoever is watching video will communicate by going to dugout. Knowing the signs isn't meant to help in that AB but to be used in future ABs for when runner is on 2nd. ALL teams do a variation of stealing signs. Such a non-issue.
6
Thanks for the breath of non-hysterical reality Tony. You are correct about the Apple Watch-that's lazy and its use embarassing. As for the rest of the issue, it's common place for a catcher to visit the mound and change signs when their opponent gets a runner on second. Generally, once the pitcher has agreed on the sign the windup and pitch follow in short order. As you say All teams do it and that may not make it right to the self-righteous among us, but the lack of an explicit rule does not make it illegal.
2
The culture of cheating in Boston spreads.
9
Waah, waah! Teams have been stealing signs since the dawn of history, at least of baseball history. The New York Giants used an individual in the Polo Grounds center field scoreboard with binoculars to steal signs. What the Yankees don't like about the Bosox use of Apple watches is that they didn't think of it first!
9
What is next? The Red Sox deflates the baseball?
8
Presumably this three-game episode will make a decade of A-Rod's cheating disappear.
4
Along with Manny and Big-Popi!
3
Not shocked the Red Sox (illegally) stole signs from the Yankees but saddened. The 'Grand Old Game' once our leading national pastime is American metaphor.
2
Why doesn't the US gov't hire the Patriots and Red Sox to do our spying for us? We obviously don't know what is going on in other countries WMD programs. We thought Iraq had WMDs and we have been repeatedly surprised by North Korea's advances in missle and nuke bomb technology. Hire these Boston cheaters for a good purpose!
6
What sign did they steal to make Aaron Judge strike out so much?
5
Yet another reason to love the "wonderful" teams and fans in New England....Anyone who has ever had to sit next to an obnoxious "Sawks" fan will feel a hint of pleasure at this revelation.
5
Is there anything left to believe in?
1
Cheaters just like the Patriots. They must have taken lessons from Bill Belichek.
5
Greed has again raised its ugly head in sports.
I guess the solution is to blindfold the batter so there is no possibility he knows what pitch is coming. IT'S A GAME!!! GET OVER IT!!! Let everyone use any advantage they can get and may the best team, as determined by their various abilities, win.
1
Baseball suddenly seems like an interesting sport.
1
Where money is found, honesty and integrity are not...
If baseball pitchers and catchers signal to each other in the open, how is catching their signals on video stealing?
2
"No equipment may be used for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying information designed to give a Club an advantage."
2
What!
No mention here of one of the great cheating scandals of all time. Someone actually went to prison.
The St. Louis Cardinals scouting director hacked into the internal database of the Houston Astros. Chris Correa received a 46-month prison sentence.
Mets, NY Giants, Patriots, Phillies.....I guess the St.Louis Cardinals get a pass because of their pristine reputation.
No mention here of one of the great cheating scandals of all time. Someone actually went to prison.
The St. Louis Cardinals scouting director hacked into the internal database of the Houston Astros. Chris Correa received a 46-month prison sentence.
Mets, NY Giants, Patriots, Phillies.....I guess the St.Louis Cardinals get a pass because of their pristine reputation.
4
Baseball is so self righteous about its traditions and rules. But give them a chance to take self enhancing drugs or steal signs it is back to the jungle. Hypocrisy.
2
WHen did Bill Belichick start managing the Sox?
7
Its what Boston teams do; they cheat. Sad to think they believe they can't win without doing it.
7
What do you know? A successful Boston-area sports team cheating. Imagine that!
3
The article misses the point almost * completely * : the stealing of signs against the Yankees was an act of at best * minimal * newsworthiness.
What is of real import in this matter was conveyed by the first five words of the headline: "Red Sox Used Apple Watches" -- viz., * someone finally found a use for the Apple Watch * !
[Full disclosure: I have nothing against the Apple Watch (An object with which I have had no direct experience whatsoever.) -- or Apple itself, for that matter*: I simply couldn't resist the opportunity to engage in a little (Slightly unkind.) silliness!]
* I practically * live * on the MacBook Pro that is being used to submit this comment.
What is of real import in this matter was conveyed by the first five words of the headline: "Red Sox Used Apple Watches" -- viz., * someone finally found a use for the Apple Watch * !
[Full disclosure: I have nothing against the Apple Watch (An object with which I have had no direct experience whatsoever.) -- or Apple itself, for that matter*: I simply couldn't resist the opportunity to engage in a little (Slightly unkind.) silliness!]
* I practically * live * on the MacBook Pro that is being used to submit this comment.
2
Coming off DeflateGate, let me preemptively paraphrase Boston fans here:
- "You are just jealous haters because the Red Sox are the Greatest of All Time."
- "Everyone does it."
- "The League has it in for the Red Sox because they are so dominant."
- "Nobody's proved anything."
- [After proof provided] "Nobody's proved anything."
- "It's not cheating because they didn't need it. They would have won anyway."
- It wasn't the Sox doing it. It was some assistant coach."
- "Next time we win the World Series we will be totally vindicated."
- "Complaining like this is the only way the Yankees can win against the Sox."
- "Yeah, well..... BOSTON RULES!"
- "You are just jealous haters because the Red Sox are the Greatest of All Time."
- "Everyone does it."
- "The League has it in for the Red Sox because they are so dominant."
- "Nobody's proved anything."
- [After proof provided] "Nobody's proved anything."
- "It's not cheating because they didn't need it. They would have won anyway."
- It wasn't the Sox doing it. It was some assistant coach."
- "Next time we win the World Series we will be totally vindicated."
- "Complaining like this is the only way the Yankees can win against the Sox."
- "Yeah, well..... BOSTON RULES!"
5
Ah, fall baseball at last. Should make a great rivalry better.
1
Just a nit in all this but it would seem that the Times headline could be more factually correct: Red Sox Used Apple Watches to Transmit Signs Against Yankees from Video Replay.
The story tells how it was done and the watches weren't used to electronically capture or record the signals. Not that it changes the result since the Sox admitted doing it, it's always best to make accusations first and if you don't then fess up and don't cover up.
I guess what the Yankees had was too much for the Sox to say, it's just a coincidence,"I was just checking the time, yeah, that's the ticket", before sending signs to our players.
The story tells how it was done and the watches weren't used to electronically capture or record the signals. Not that it changes the result since the Sox admitted doing it, it's always best to make accusations first and if you don't then fess up and don't cover up.
I guess what the Yankees had was too much for the Sox to say, it's just a coincidence,"I was just checking the time, yeah, that's the ticket", before sending signs to our players.
1
I was not aware that Bill Belichick also managed the Red Sox. Busy man...
2
A major league baseball team stealing signals?
Oh no!!!
This is the worst thing that's ever happened to anyone anywhere.
Oh no!!!
This is the worst thing that's ever happened to anyone anywhere.
1
Because you cannot deflate a baseball.
4
lot of good it did this past weekend
This just in....Goodell suspends Brady for having general knowledge of who the Red Sox are.
4
Interesting timing. What's the latest on Ortiz and steroids?
1
Once proven the MLB needs to enforce discipline without regard to internal politics, economics or owner preference.
The Sox need to be fined and given a posted loss for this game and future season games against NYY
The Sox need to be fined and given a posted loss for this game and future season games against NYY
1
Smoke, smoke, and more smoke. The fire is that some New England sport franchises believe that it is acceptable to do anything to win. Not too surprising when the owner, head coach, and star quarterback of the Patriots consider the bigot and liar who sits (literally) in the Oval Office their "poster-child" for how business should be conducted. I have been a Red Sox and Patriots fan in the past. Now I just enjoy watching the teams lose. That makes me "sad" because I like a lot of the players. The problems are with the leadership.
5
So what methods do the Yankees use? My guess is a much more sophisticated network of double agents.
The Phillies have recently been using a time machine, but it only goes back in time, so they have to rely on signals from games played against the same team from several years back. It seems to be working for them.
The Phillies have recently been using a time machine, but it only goes back in time, so they have to rely on signals from games played against the same team from several years back. It seems to be working for them.
2
I played little league ball in the 1970's. Our coaches (think Buttermaker in "Bad News Bears") gave us little gold star decals on our hat brims if we could find a place near home plate to steal the catcher's signals, get the message to our onfield coaches, who would then signal the batter. We thought there was nothing wrong with this.
Cashman, like that coach on the Jets, is just a cry baby. He's like the classmate way back when who would ask the teacher is there was a homework assignment for the next day.
Cashman, like that coach on the Jets, is just a cry baby. He's like the classmate way back when who would ask the teacher is there was a homework assignment for the next day.
2
If that's what the Red Sox had been doing, that wouldn't have been against MLB rules, either.
Forget about the claim that it's always gone on. It's stupid. And yes, the Yankees probably did it too. For the fan base, it's a question of how much can we take on top of idiotic Trump actions such as Dreamers, North Korea, Russia cyber attacks, global warming enhanced weather events, inaction on all fronts by Congress. With the overloaded ads on major sporting broadcasts, and now cheating, it's no longer watchable. Time to tune out.
I played baseball and I do not see how this works. The time between the catcher giving a signal to the pitcher is very short. How is it all to be recognized then sent to the batter whose concentration is then distracted looking for the signal?.
1
It is interesting how long it takes for the pitcher to deliver the pitch after he got the signal from the catcher! I guess the whole world can find out before the delivery - no wonder baseball is so boring.
As a Boston resident and lifelong BOSOX fan, the Red Sox should be disqualified (preferably by the Red Sox owners) from post season play for 2017. This is what accountability and taking responsibility looks like. Also, any player, coach, support staff, etc., involved should be suspended immediately for the rest of the season with additional severe penalties to be determined.
Finally, the Red Sox ownership should submit a plan to the Commissioner's office on how going forward the Red Sox are going to implement oversight and internal controls to prevent this and other offenses from happening in the future including penalties written into players and coaches contracts for rules not followed or cheating.
If the Red Sox proactively and immediately apologize, self-inflict severe penalties, and then present an action plan going forward, then they can move forward in a positive manner. Take the high road my beloved Red Sox, and it will payoff in the long run, big time. It will make all the difference.
Finally, the Red Sox ownership should submit a plan to the Commissioner's office on how going forward the Red Sox are going to implement oversight and internal controls to prevent this and other offenses from happening in the future including penalties written into players and coaches contracts for rules not followed or cheating.
If the Red Sox proactively and immediately apologize, self-inflict severe penalties, and then present an action plan going forward, then they can move forward in a positive manner. Take the high road my beloved Red Sox, and it will payoff in the long run, big time. It will make all the difference.
2
Seriously?
New rule: no signs in baseball. The catcher , like the batter, must just guess the type of pitch. Any signals from any player, they are ejected.
Fat chance!
Fat chance!
1
These commissioners are useless when it comes to ethics. It's all about preserving the cash cows.
Simple. Have the catcher give signs to the pitcher by Apple Watch. Soon all the players will be staring at their wrists to get the signs.
It's amazing reading the rationalizations for cheating.
Maybe that's why the country is in so much trouble.
Win at any cost!
Maybe that's why the country is in so much trouble.
Win at any cost!
2
A golfer will call a one-stroke penalty on himself for example when he causes the ball to move even minutely when he soles the club even though he was the only one who saw the ball move. It's called "sportsmanship." And there is plenty at stake in golf too: large purses, prestige in winning national championships or the pressure in not letting teammates down in such events as the Ryder Cup.
What's wrong with professional baseball players? How many times do you see a batter hit a deep fly ball and he trots down to first base thinking it's a homer only for the ball to bounce off the outfield wall? What could have been a double is now a single. Aren't the millions they are paid enough incentive to run out everything at full speed? There is not one high school ball player who wouldn't. And now they add to the sin of sloth the sin of cheating.
The entire Boston Red Sox team should be made to watch 12 hours of Derek Jeter batting and fielding.
What's wrong with professional baseball players? How many times do you see a batter hit a deep fly ball and he trots down to first base thinking it's a homer only for the ball to bounce off the outfield wall? What could have been a double is now a single. Aren't the millions they are paid enough incentive to run out everything at full speed? There is not one high school ball player who wouldn't. And now they add to the sin of sloth the sin of cheating.
The entire Boston Red Sox team should be made to watch 12 hours of Derek Jeter batting and fielding.
10
I don't know which is worse - the act of stealing signs via technology or the probability that MLB won't punish the Red Sox or any other team sufficiently to make a difference. Either way, what kind of message is being sent to our youth?
I've been a fan of baseball my entire life yet I find myself becoming less enthused by the game not only for cheating but for how the game is changing overall.
I've been a fan of baseball my entire life yet I find myself becoming less enthused by the game not only for cheating but for how the game is changing overall.
7
As a life long Sox fan, this is a disgrace. They know the rules and with all of the cameras around ballparks these days, it was only a matter of time (no pun) until someone noticed what was going on. But for those calling on the Sox to have wins taken away from them, please look at the current standings and the horrible series that was recently played against the Yankees.
4
But it's not listed anywhere in the MLB rulebook as a violation. It's part of the game, and has been since its inception.
The Red Sox still didn't win the season series with the Yankees, even while cheating. Electronic signals don't swing the bats, as much as Red Sox players may wish they could.
3
Come now boys, you mean to tell us that all of these geniuses can't come up with a signaling system that would create at least a high level of doubt as to what the next pitch will be? Puhleeze!
2
they cheated and got caught now they get punished- that is baseball
everyone bends the rules. So the Commish can have more policing or less.
everyone bends the rules. So the Commish can have more policing or less.
HOW you win matters.
Those involved must be punished severely.
This is fan abuse as well.
Those involved must be punished severely.
This is fan abuse as well.
4
hey ! I want that app !!!
3
Maybe the Red Socks took lessons from the Patriots.
2
What is it about Boston teams that means they have to cheat to try and win?
4
Boston is unique among cities in this country in that it is the acknowledged center of an entire region (The Hub). It makes the fans of its teams identify with them all the more closely and creates an overheated, win at all cost atmosphere that's intensified by the sports media there. To a degree I believe that mindset is absorbed by the teams themselves, letting them rationalize a blurring of ethical lines in order to gain an edge.
2
I am shocked, shocked, I tell you that the Boosox took a page out of Belichick's book. I'm not going to lie to get on this page, I have hated the Sox since I was a fan of Mantle. Luis Tiant and Yaz have been the only exceptions to my joyless review of the rosters they have fielded. But now this? Cheaters. So, how to restore the balance between winning and winning at any cost, and how to restore the Yankees to their place without the element of electronic cheating in the calculus of sport? Simple. You shut the series out, like a forfeit: 9-0. Here, each game the Yankees played Boston should be deemed a forfeit. That includes statistics of the players on the Sox (alone). That includes their game pay. That includes the (total) value of any per diem for travel, etc., and any other perk. And then, ladies and gentlemen, the greatest game will not be tainted again. If it is, the same punishment follows. Twice in 10-years will mean the team is enjoined from competing the following season and the previous season's winnings are stripped from the books. You talk about Asterisk. Then owners will come to Jesus before allowing it to happen. Submitted.
13
Spy gate
Inflategate
Now Apple Watch gate...
I guess it is a Boston cheating thing ( although stealing signs is part of the game but using electronic means to communicate the stolen signs is a violation of rules)
At least someone finally found a use for the Apple Watch and now that is not allowed....
Inflategate
Now Apple Watch gate...
I guess it is a Boston cheating thing ( although stealing signs is part of the game but using electronic means to communicate the stolen signs is a violation of rules)
At least someone finally found a use for the Apple Watch and now that is not allowed....
2
Let's take away the Giants appearance in the 1951 WS because they stole the signal that allowed Thompson to hit the "shot heard round the world." Let's take away the 1977 and 1978 WS from the Yankees because they were allowed to buy up all the A's talent while the Red Sox were denied the trade in 1976 with the A's because it was bad for baseball.
This deserves no less than a one year suspension from MLB.
The Cheat Sox have disgraced New England, America, and Baseball.
"Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?"
The Cheat Sox have disgraced New England, America, and Baseball.
"Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?"
4
Did anyone mention that there are no rules against stealing signs in baseball and its done whenever the opportunity presents itself?
Maybe it was mentioned but I stopped read most these emails as they are so banal, somehow , linking the Red Sox to the Patriots. Sad, so sad.
Maybe it was mentioned but I stopped read most these emails as they are so banal, somehow , linking the Red Sox to the Patriots. Sad, so sad.
2
“The use of electronic equipment during a game is restricted. No Club shall use electronic equipment, including but not limited to walkie-talkies, cellular telephones, laptop computers or tablets, to communicate to or with any on-field personnel, including those in the dugout, bullpen, field and, during the game, the clubhouse. No equipment may be used for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying information designed to give a Club an advantage. Laptop computers and hand held devices are not permitted on the bench or in the dugout.
“The only exceptions to this prohibition are the use of a mobile phone for communication between the dugout and the bullpen, and the use of tablets in the dugout or bullpen running uniform programs, so long as such devices and programs have been approved by the Office of the Commissioner.”
“The only exceptions to this prohibition are the use of a mobile phone for communication between the dugout and the bullpen, and the use of tablets in the dugout or bullpen running uniform programs, so long as such devices and programs have been approved by the Office of the Commissioner.”
2
Ha, that's great. I love it.
Also, legalize steroids; more homers are more fun; who cares...
Also, legalize steroids; more homers are more fun; who cares...
It seems that Lance Armstrong is not the only cheater in professional sports, and I doubt that the Red Sox are the only cheaters in baseball. It is no surprise - when there is so much money involved there will be cheating. Take the money out of the game and the cheating will stop.........
1
The Commish will give the Sox a slap on the wrist (if that), but by God, we'll keep Pete out of the Hall.
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
1
Has the Commish also been asked to check on whether the Red Sox pitchers have been provided with deflated baseballs?
3
always thought they'd stoop this low
sorry to see it
sorry to see it
2
Oh man, can you imagine what a pair of thought only driven Google glass could do! That would upend baseball as we know it!
See it, think it to another player, who acts on it..repeat until game won..
But I suppose then hacking remotely into the opponents glass real time would happen..supplanting the view with a created CGI assisted fake move, which calculated correctly, would throw off the team spying , making for some really interesting "why'd he do that?" plays :-)
Then of course, the Russians would be blamed and it would become a muddled mess... :-p
And..Trump no doubt has stock in baseball manufacturing..so ultimately..it will end up being HIS fault..Thats of course unless Melanie attends the game wearing hot spiked high heeled shoes..then its anybody's guess..
:-)
See it, think it to another player, who acts on it..repeat until game won..
But I suppose then hacking remotely into the opponents glass real time would happen..supplanting the view with a created CGI assisted fake move, which calculated correctly, would throw off the team spying , making for some really interesting "why'd he do that?" plays :-)
Then of course, the Russians would be blamed and it would become a muddled mess... :-p
And..Trump no doubt has stock in baseball manufacturing..so ultimately..it will end up being HIS fault..Thats of course unless Melanie attends the game wearing hot spiked high heeled shoes..then its anybody's guess..
:-)
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree in New England, huh Pats?
1
Humans being humans
I am sure no one in NY ever tried to cheat they are all so culturally above the fray.Ha Ha
2
Big frigging deal...oh they steal signs....use telepathy instead .....
Man, these Boston teams are such cheaty-cheats, aren't they? Spygate, Deflategate and now Applegate.
Sad, Beantown, really sad.
Sad, Beantown, really sad.
3
What does Trump have to say about this?
1
Reminds me of that old double play combination: Cheaters to Sleezeball to Take-No-Chance.
North Korea, DACA, Harvey, Irma, Iran, Russia, and you are worried about Apple Watches. Way to go.
Would the Yankee's like a little cheese to go with that whine?
3
There is no rule against sign stealing in baseball. As technology advances, new methodologies evolve. So, what's the big scandal?
As a Medicare age baseball fan, I was shocked decades ago when television coverage of games began to include the center field camera, where you could easily see the signals from catcher to pitcher. Anyone with a television and the ability to discern the signals could tell what pitch was coming in next.
Seems to me that to avoid the use of broadcast television as a vehicle for sign stealing, either the center field camera should be banned (not likely), or, games should be broadcast on a 60 second delay. For those who absolutely had to know what was going on at the Stadium in real time, they could listen to the radio.......if they could stand the John and Suzyn show.
As a Medicare age baseball fan, I was shocked decades ago when television coverage of games began to include the center field camera, where you could easily see the signals from catcher to pitcher. Anyone with a television and the ability to discern the signals could tell what pitch was coming in next.
Seems to me that to avoid the use of broadcast television as a vehicle for sign stealing, either the center field camera should be banned (not likely), or, games should be broadcast on a 60 second delay. For those who absolutely had to know what was going on at the Stadium in real time, they could listen to the radio.......if they could stand the John and Suzyn show.
The story says that "the rule is that electronic devices are not to be used in the dugout. "THAT is the rule you say does not exist.
2
A radar gun is an 'electronic device". The use of monitors and video to decide whether or not to challenge an umpire's call is the use of an electronic device. Even a simple quartz watch, or stopwatch, is a electronic device. A laptop computer is an electronic device. What can and cannot be used is vague.
A lot of sore NYer's here. Baseball teams have been doing these shenanigans since the league started. This is just plain innovative and impressive.
7
Sure. Let's just be innovative as anything and outfit all the players with headsets. While were at it, let's remove all restrictions on equipment. Let outfielders use butterfly nets. Innovation!
4
and illegal
2
If this is true why are the Boston Red Sox still allowed to play in the league? Sounds a lot like the Trump version of Rule of Law and the criminal Sheriff Joe Arpaio. When is they just got caught ever a justification for degrading the integrity or decency of an institution? New meme? As un-American as baseball. This is wrong. No moral ambiguity involved.
1
Why didn't the Yankees forfeit all their games where PED abusers ARod and Jason Giambi played for the Yanks?
2
There is a reason that teams used signals in the first place rather than simply shouting out what pitches are to be used. And there is a simple solution inspired by the NYC Department of Education: Make all team personnel go through scanning and don't allow any electronics. The dugout would be restricted to the one phone to communicate with the bullpen and all communication would have to be carried out in full view of rivals and spectators.
The batting averages of practically the entire Red Sox team are so journeyman-like (in the neighborhood of .250--.275) that it seems pretty ridiculous to think they could be the result of conscientiously applied technological deception tactics.
Their bullpen has had better statistical success that their hitters. So...shall we assume the reason for that is some attempt to steal the opposing teams's signs from the third-base coach to their batters, so as to better know what the hitters are going to try to be doing on their next swing and tailor the pitch accordingly?
Their bullpen has had better statistical success that their hitters. So...shall we assume the reason for that is some attempt to steal the opposing teams's signs from the third-base coach to their batters, so as to better know what the hitters are going to try to be doing on their next swing and tailor the pitch accordingly?
Another Boston team tarnishes its reputation and ruins its success with cheating. Not surprised but it is amazing the message they send about sportsmanship to kids. And sad the fans who first say everyone else is doing it. yeah, okay.
Hitting a baseball is one of the most difficult things to do in all of sports. Hitting it well --getting it where you want it to go, when you need it to go there-- is even harder. If you don't believe me, just ask yourself why there is such frequent and effective use of defensive shifts against batters who can't seem to adjust and pick the spots they hit to, even with half of the infield wide open...
The Red Sox have been struggling terribly with getting RISP across home plate, and leaving runners stranded generally. The fact they are in first place in their division, though, means either they have been able to do it just enough to make a difference...or that every other team in the division is doing even worse on that score. (It certainly isn't the case that the Red Sox have been creaming all the other division rivals in terms of the number of solo home runs they've hit --which wouldn't bear on the RISP statistic--, since they are dead last in the majors in home runs.)
The Red Sox have been struggling terribly with getting RISP across home plate, and leaving runners stranded generally. The fact they are in first place in their division, though, means either they have been able to do it just enough to make a difference...or that every other team in the division is doing even worse on that score. (It certainly isn't the case that the Red Sox have been creaming all the other division rivals in terms of the number of solo home runs they've hit --which wouldn't bear on the RISP statistic--, since they are dead last in the majors in home runs.)
1
The call on stealing signals in baseball games.
There is a call out right now against Boston for this and I don't think this should be crime, sin, infraction, or any other violation in baseball.
I think the reason it is an issue is only because technology is used in the process of watching for the signals, and then communicating them to the other team members, Its really a matter of how technology has affected more traditional aspects of the sport.
If baseball makes a rule that says technology cannot be used in any way in the actual play of the game, then fine. But, that would also call into question the common use of radar guns, instant replay challenges, and other uses of technology to enhance the game.
Let Boston steal the opponents signals any way they can. Let the opponent use all the tools they have to confound Boston's methods.
Let the game begin!
There is a call out right now against Boston for this and I don't think this should be crime, sin, infraction, or any other violation in baseball.
I think the reason it is an issue is only because technology is used in the process of watching for the signals, and then communicating them to the other team members, Its really a matter of how technology has affected more traditional aspects of the sport.
If baseball makes a rule that says technology cannot be used in any way in the actual play of the game, then fine. But, that would also call into question the common use of radar guns, instant replay challenges, and other uses of technology to enhance the game.
Let Boston steal the opponents signals any way they can. Let the opponent use all the tools they have to confound Boston's methods.
Let the game begin!
1
This is another expression that permeates every American institution, finance Academia ,athletics and business. its a positive character trait to cheat to win.
For those who see this as a bad reflection on Boston, a lesson in professional sports. The principal owner of the Red Sox is from Illinois. as is the general manager. The manager is from New Jersey. The players are from all over the Western Hemisphere. And the offending Apple Watch was probably manufactured in China. No one involved in this scheme is from Boston. As for Tom Brady, he's from California.
Bostonians bear no blame for any schemes. And the reason that they keep rooting for their teams is that Boston has one of the most loyal fan bases out there. People leave the city and root for the Sox and the Patriots for the rest of their lives. An Apple watch and a partially deflated football mean little in the context of a lifetime loyalty. Those who don't understand unconditional love, who get all hot and bothered by minor rule-breaking, make terrible parents and terrible fans.
Bostonians bear no blame for any schemes. And the reason that they keep rooting for their teams is that Boston has one of the most loyal fan bases out there. People leave the city and root for the Sox and the Patriots for the rest of their lives. An Apple watch and a partially deflated football mean little in the context of a lifetime loyalty. Those who don't understand unconditional love, who get all hot and bothered by minor rule-breaking, make terrible parents and terrible fans.
2
Stealing signs is a practice as old as the signs themselves. And cheating was embedded in the original rules of baseball. It's a tradition much older than the major leagues and their arbitrary rules. Are we now going to say that a fielder is not supposed to try to "deke" the umpires? Is a fielder not supposed to try to fake a tag? It's part of the game and has always been, along with chin music and violent slides (which somehow aren't "cheating"?) Baseball is, for players and fans, a fun pastime, and cheating in baseball is a funny part of the fun. Do we remember how Reggie Jackson stuck out his hip on the base path between first and second at an important moment (in the World Series, I think is was) so that the ball would hit him and he'd be declared safe? Hilarious! We need to find ways to stop cheating when found, but we need to acknowledge the simple fact that playing baseball includes trying to cheat. It always has. Well, sure, if a bat splits and is found to be corked, the batter should be out. But let's not declare him a sinner! It's baseball!
Our national sport, taken to it's lowest level. It's all about the money. Same with the Patriots, same with tennis, basketball and golf. Gambling also plays a huge amount in the temptation to cheat. Players are approached to throw games.
Players are at risk, but when the management of the team supports the cheating, their season should end immediately.
Players are at risk, but when the management of the team supports the cheating, their season should end immediately.
I remember another instance decades ago at Wrigley field when the Cubs had a guy with binoculars hidden in the scoreboard reading the Giants' (by then in SF) catcher's signs and relaying them to the dugout. The Cubs scored, if I recall correctly, something like 18 runs.
What comes around goes around.
What comes around goes around.
An Apple Watch is by definition an electronic device. And electronic devices are not to be used in the dugout. Ergo Apple watches are not allowed in the dugout.
Make the punishment real sample: Any player or coach that cheats, doesn't get to play in any post season games that year. You cheat, no play-offs, no World Series for each person involved. Your team doesn't make it to the post season games, you have to take a college-level ethics class during the off season. Either way, the league makes it clear that cheating is taken seriously. If you think I'm being harsh, remember that cheating is a conscious choice and that children and teens are watching their heroes and learning from their behavior.
Make the punishment real sample: Any player or coach that cheats, doesn't get to play in any post season games that year. You cheat, no play-offs, no World Series for each person involved. Your team doesn't make it to the post season games, you have to take a college-level ethics class during the off season. Either way, the league makes it clear that cheating is taken seriously. If you think I'm being harsh, remember that cheating is a conscious choice and that children and teens are watching their heroes and learning from their behavior.
1
I'm not a baseball fan but the solution seems incredibly easy: Equip the catcher and pitcher with concealed vibrating communication devices, the kind used by stage mentalists. Change the rules, if such exist, because it would put all teams on the same level field, literally.
Fact is, in professional sports, if you can cheat, you cheat. It's just the way it is. And if you get caught, you pay the price, and I hope the Red Sox organization pays a heavy price. Interesting that it's another Boston team.
1
what's so hard about handling this, even the ncaa, devoted as it is to protecting their college cash-cow brand, annuls wins by cheaters...if these guys cheat, take away the games won and bar their teams from the playoffs, ok to add fines and suspensions for participating players, managers and suits, but...
guaranteed, if this ends in fines and scolds, it won't stop, the dishonesty will just a pause until the next trick...remember the giants and the telescopes, same thing now, with new toys.
it those in charge don't fix it, a fan "day-away" from all major league parks and souvenir shops might send the message, one that can be repeated without even leaving home, without marching in the streets, without uncivil rages or property damage.
guaranteed, if this ends in fines and scolds, it won't stop, the dishonesty will just a pause until the next trick...remember the giants and the telescopes, same thing now, with new toys.
it those in charge don't fix it, a fan "day-away" from all major league parks and souvenir shops might send the message, one that can be repeated without even leaving home, without marching in the streets, without uncivil rages or property damage.
You can always rely on people to cheat because, as with every other competitive sport, baseball doesn't build character. It reveals it.
And in a nation that would elect Trump, ethics and morality are irrelevant.
And in a nation that would elect Trump, ethics and morality are irrelevant.
1
Another rich people's problem. The signs are shown in public. No one cares. If this is really an issue, Major League Baseball should just allow the catcher & pitcher to communicate by ear pieces whose signals are encrypted.
What cracked the case was evidence that the Sox had hired Tom Brady as an assistant trainer.
“And the reason for that,” he added, “is it’s just very hard to know what the actual impact on any particular game was of an alleged violation.”
Manfred should resign. This deflection displays a profound ignorance of baseball.
He shouldn't be running a concession stand.
Manfred should resign. This deflection displays a profound ignorance of baseball.
He shouldn't be running a concession stand.
1
“is it’s just very hard to know what the actual impact on any particular game was of an alleged violation.”
All baseball fans understand this point about a certain kind of cheating having an indeterminate effect on a particular game. Why then can't climate change deniers apply this same logic to the indeterminate link between global warming and specific weather events?
All baseball fans understand this point about a certain kind of cheating having an indeterminate effect on a particular game. Why then can't climate change deniers apply this same logic to the indeterminate link between global warming and specific weather events?
I'm still trying to figure out exactly how this worked, especially the Apple Watch aspect. How about a graphic or something? Maybe a step-by-step -- first this happened, then this, etc. Or if you don't know exactly how it all worked, say that it is still unclear.
It's interesting and unfortunate that the article omits an important piece of information: stealing signs is not against the rules in baseball. If there is a violation it would only be in the use of the Apple watch to relay the information. Also omitted from the article is Commissioner Manfred's comment that "I am told that sign-stealing issues are often resolved by one general manager calling another general manager and saying, 'hey I think you are doing X and if you are doing it you ought to stop doing it.'" Here Brian Cashman, for reasons of his own, decided to go a different route.
6
The legality was mentioned -
Stealing signs is believed to be particularly effective ..... Such tactics are allowed as long as teams do not use any methods beyond their eyes.
Stealing signs is believed to be particularly effective ..... Such tactics are allowed as long as teams do not use any methods beyond their eyes.
2
From the article: "Stealing signs is believed to be particularly effective when there is a runner on second base who can both watch what hand signals the catcher is using to communicate with the pitcher and can easily relay to the batter any clues about what type of pitch may be coming. Such tactics are allowed as long as teams do not use any methods beyond their eyes. Binoculars and electronic devices are both prohibited."
2
Drugs in sports, Boston Patriots deflated footballs, and now Boston cheating!
You'd think that players making millions upon millions of dollars could hit a baseball without cheating!
I hope that the league commissioner and the Major League Baseball penalize the Red Sox but having them forfeit the game to the Yankees!
You'd think that players making millions upon millions of dollars could hit a baseball without cheating!
I hope that the league commissioner and the Major League Baseball penalize the Red Sox but having them forfeit the game to the Yankees!
7
The better the performance...the bigger the paycheck.
Natural talent carries only so far...
The 'Pie' is only so big...
Avarice reigns supreme.
Natural talent carries only so far...
The 'Pie' is only so big...
Avarice reigns supreme.
"In what mimicked the rhythm of a double play, the information would rapidly go from video personnel to a trainer to the players." Oh, my...
2
I'm not sure what I really think of it. I guess my first reaction is- if "secret' signals can be given they surely must be allowed to be 'stolen'. It's just another element of competition. But why against my Yankees?
My wife and I have been Red Sox fans for many decades, my wife for her entire life (and she's in her early 70s). If proven true, this is an utter disgrace. The Fraud Sox season should be declared over and the remaining games forfeited. In addition, any game during which this cheating occurred should also be forfeited. The integrity of the game requires both.
26
Oh, please! Cheating was embedded in the original rules of baseball. It's a tradition much older --and generally more understood-- than the major leagues and their arbitrary rules. Do you mean a fielder is not supposed to try to "deke" an umpire? Do you mean an infielder is not supposed to fake a tag? It's done every day that baseball is played. Of course, we want to stop it when we catch 'em, but it's part of baseball, just like chin music or those violent slides. Baseball is a fun pastime, for players and fans, and cheating is just dang funny. I think the situation is hilarious. Do you remember Reggie Jackson sticking out his hip on the basepath between first and second during a playoff (World Series? I forget) game, so that he'd be hit by the ball and declared safe? Hilarious! Well sure, if a bat splits and is found to be corked,the batter should be declared out. But who wants to declare him a sinner? It's baseball!
1
Will Bostonians hold their teams accountable: why are they so stupid to get caught?
There's cheating in sports? Oh, the horror. I'm shocked, shocked. As in Casablanca...
There's cheating in sports? Oh, the horror. I'm shocked, shocked. As in Casablanca...
11
We are to believe that stealing signals helped the Sox hitters against the Yankee pitchers. Those signals are given by Gary Sanchez, and he can't even catch what the pitchers throw -- he leads all of baseball in passed balls.
CC has been throwing the same stuff for 100 years. He doesn't much rely on the element of surprise. Tanaka's splitter is the best in baseball. Knowing it's coming is like knowing Rivera's cutter was coming. You'll still miss it most of the time. Severino has the fastest fastball of any starter in baseball. By the time any Red Sox knew it was coming, it was probably already past them. And Sonny Gray is constantly changing his grip on his pitches, which makes them pretty unpredictable.
If you're going to steal signals, the Yankees are one of the worst teams to steal them on. But if Sanchez ever learns how to catch them, that will be a sign that knowing what's coming is worth the price of an Apple watch.
CC has been throwing the same stuff for 100 years. He doesn't much rely on the element of surprise. Tanaka's splitter is the best in baseball. Knowing it's coming is like knowing Rivera's cutter was coming. You'll still miss it most of the time. Severino has the fastest fastball of any starter in baseball. By the time any Red Sox knew it was coming, it was probably already past them. And Sonny Gray is constantly changing his grip on his pitches, which makes them pretty unpredictable.
If you're going to steal signals, the Yankees are one of the worst teams to steal them on. But if Sanchez ever learns how to catch them, that will be a sign that knowing what's coming is worth the price of an Apple watch.
13
Ever wonder why a batter stands there frozen while a 90 mph, very hittable, fastball sails past him for a called strike? He was anticipating another pitch. Knowing you're about to get an 85 mph changeup and not a 95 mph four seamer, not to mention the location, is invaluable information.
While I appreciate the in depth scouting report, rationalizing the behavior doesn't make it right. And yes, the slight advantage of knowing the type of pitch does give the hitter a piece of valuable information against the pitcher. The pitchers you named are professionals but so are the hitters they're throwing to.
The suspicion is that they were working the technique against all recent opponents, not just the Yankees. The Yankees were just the ones that scoped it and made the complaint.
Patriots, now Red Sox? What is wrong with Boston?
13
Nice shot of the High Boy!
Oh Boston! Please, say it isn't so. Deflate-gate, Apple Watch-gate. You're losing your moral compass... and I may be gong too.
6
I will not rest until a proper investigation determines if the Red Sox had representatives at the meeting between the Trump campaign and the Russians.
This is not the first Red Sox attempt to cheat. Remember when the Red Sox booked all of the rooms where Jose Contreras was staying so to lock the Yankees out of the discussions?
This is not the first Red Sox attempt to cheat. Remember when the Red Sox booked all of the rooms where Jose Contreras was staying so to lock the Yankees out of the discussions?
11
What good is a commissioner if he won't enforce action against cheating? The umps on the field have enough trouble policing the 9 innings of action. Someone else has to keep the game sportsmanlike less it turn into pro-football where hotdogs get no penalties for shamelessly exploiting themselves.
The Sox should get a loss chalked against them for every game that they won, where there is proof or confession of stealing signals electronically. If that costs them getting into the playoffs---GOOD.
The Sox should get a loss chalked against them for every game that they won, where there is proof or confession of stealing signals electronically. If that costs them getting into the playoffs---GOOD.
11
Huge fine should be enacted for such behavior.
2
Hmmm...
Numerous Patriots "shenanigans"
Now Red Sox "shenanigans"
Not liking that indigestion-giving Boston chow-dah right now!
Seriously, things are rubbishy enough in the world these days. Could you just please "Play Ball, and Play Fair!"
Numerous Patriots "shenanigans"
Now Red Sox "shenanigans"
Not liking that indigestion-giving Boston chow-dah right now!
Seriously, things are rubbishy enough in the world these days. Could you just please "Play Ball, and Play Fair!"
15
Sports are about competing honestly. How can people sleep at night knowing they cheated? From marathon runners (I am one) shorting the course to cyclists using motors to coaches stealing signs, it's pathetic how many losers and liars think pretending to win is the same thing as winning.
24
Another example of how useless Apple watches are, diverting attention from what really needed to be done to win games. Hey, maybe the Yankees hacked into the watches and gave the Sox the wrong signals. If, as the F.D.A. has said, you can hack into pacemakers, an Apple watch must be child's play.
3
Here's a novel idea. Why not use those Apple watches to send texts to the team members instead of using hand signals and other body language which can be easily seen and deciphered.
2
Or maybe let the catcher send his signals to the pitcher via Apple Watch.
I'm a life-long Sox fan, my dad being from Rhode Island. I have lots of thoughts, but here are three:
1. Exclude the Sox from the playoffs this year. The fact that it is not possible to "know" whether the scheme affected the outcome of games, it is known that it affected the porbabilities of the outcome of every game in which it was used. This alone is enough to justify this remedy, but perhaps a real remedy like this will also make others think twice in the future before they cheat.
2. Did anyone stop to think what effect this would have on "professional" baseball and the fan base? Everyone is going to wonder if any result is legitimate. Cynicism will run rampant and the game is lowered in the eyes of the public.
3. If the Yankees did what they are accused of, same result.
Too disppointed to continue with this comment . . . .
1. Exclude the Sox from the playoffs this year. The fact that it is not possible to "know" whether the scheme affected the outcome of games, it is known that it affected the porbabilities of the outcome of every game in which it was used. This alone is enough to justify this remedy, but perhaps a real remedy like this will also make others think twice in the future before they cheat.
2. Did anyone stop to think what effect this would have on "professional" baseball and the fan base? Everyone is going to wonder if any result is legitimate. Cynicism will run rampant and the game is lowered in the eyes of the public.
3. If the Yankees did what they are accused of, same result.
Too disppointed to continue with this comment . . . .
21
Make the Red Sox forfeit all wins and adjust the league standings accordingly. Also, fine them - a lot. Probably won't happen again.
7
Part of me finds this amusing for the sheer audacity of it plus new tech. Another part of me is disgusted by cheating. It is inventive, but one has to ask, why cheat in the first place? Is the game such that in order to gain a competitive advantage that teams need to participate in the subtext of this article, because they all do it? I listened to an interview today with a former British spy who said "nothing - nothing - is as it seems, ever." Hmmmm.
8
The Red Sox should be forced to forfeit any game in which it can be demonstrated this "technology" was used. Deflategate ended with a slap on the wrist - something more is needed this time around.
12
The Red Sox are a baseball team and the Patriots are a football team. They are not related. Its beyond belief that you are relating the two.
I was wondering what happened to the guy with the headphones that sat directly behind home plate at all of the games at Fenway. I guess new technology is better than old technology.
3
I do not approve of cheating.
Why can't a team vary the meaning of a catcher's signs from inning to inning.
For example in odd innings one finger is fast ball and 2 a curve while in even innings 1 is curve 2 is fast ball.
Why can't a team vary the meaning of a catcher's signs from inning to inning.
For example in odd innings one finger is fast ball and 2 a curve while in even innings 1 is curve 2 is fast ball.
1
But then the cheaters will still know "odd innings one finger is fast ball and 2 a curve while in even innings 1 is curve 2 is fast ball"
The RedSox should be suspended for 5 years.
The RedSox should be suspended for 5 years.
4
There are obviously many more sophisticated variations of signs that could be used which would make understanding what a particular sign meant impossible to understand.
It probably impossible to stop the opposing team from observing signs.
It is possible to make it impossible for the stealing team to understand what the signs mean.
It probably impossible to stop the opposing team from observing signs.
It is possible to make it impossible for the stealing team to understand what the signs mean.
Honesty about the false accusations of the Patriots does not seem to exist in most of these comments.
This one - apparently demonstrably culpable - is no excuse for resuscitating a bunch of nasty debunked accusations.
That said, I do wonder why the Red Sox can't win for losing, if they had to cheat.
This one - apparently demonstrably culpable - is no excuse for resuscitating a bunch of nasty debunked accusations.
That said, I do wonder why the Red Sox can't win for losing, if they had to cheat.
3
Looks like Boston teams have to cheat to win.
8
Nope. Goodell wasn't man enough to confess the whole rickety structure of lies that condemns the most hated team in football was a tissue of fabrication and lies.
This Red Sox thing, though, ugh! No excuses for that one.
This Red Sox thing, though, ugh! No excuses for that one.
8
Is there a rule that says that "teams shall not use Apple watch to communicate with batter" .. if not, this is a bogus accusation.
1
Yes, there is.
Someone please explain why the best teams in sports - Red Sox and Patriots - find a need to cheat? Only in Boston is being #1 not enough.
9
The Red Sox are not the best team in sports. And the Patriots didn't and don't cheat. Go figure.
This one does seem unbelievably stupid.
This one does seem unbelievably stupid.
6
Seems they are the "best" because they cheat better than anyone else.
9
Actually, even if you ignore "Deflategate," your Pats confessed to spying and taping other teams' practices. That's cheating (duh).
6
Arnold Red Auerbach.
Before spygate/deflategate/Apple Watch there was the cigar smoking master himself making his own rules.
Gamesmanship or cheating?
Loose nets on baskets so the ball goes through quickly and the Celtics could start their epic fast break
one dim light bulb in the visitors locker room in the Boston Garden
no hot water in the showers
no heat in the locker room in the winter
a steambath in the locker room during the playoffs in May
no cold drinking water
These incidents add to the mystique of these great sports dynasties. Red Sox will need a lot more than the Apple Watch if they expect to win the WS against those Dodgers
Before spygate/deflategate/Apple Watch there was the cigar smoking master himself making his own rules.
Gamesmanship or cheating?
Loose nets on baskets so the ball goes through quickly and the Celtics could start their epic fast break
one dim light bulb in the visitors locker room in the Boston Garden
no hot water in the showers
no heat in the locker room in the winter
a steambath in the locker room during the playoffs in May
no cold drinking water
These incidents add to the mystique of these great sports dynasties. Red Sox will need a lot more than the Apple Watch if they expect to win the WS against those Dodgers
9
This is FRAUD and should be prosecuted as fraud. If it were a neighborhood game with no money involved, then one could shrug it off as dishonest. But when there are such large sums of money involved it is FRAUD. I'm sick of fraud in professional sports. Why isn't the DA prosecuting?
15
"No. Way." I say aloud as my eyes catch this headline, "Really? They're cheating will all that talent on the team?"
Half of me is shocked, a small portion of me is actually disgusted because the rest of me is impressed by this stunt. I start to become less and less shocked from the cheating happening in the first place because I realize that this is another New England team. I am more stunned by how the Red Sox pulled this off. Before I read the article, I give the players the benefit of the doubt; maybe they didn't know how the coach (or whoever) was getting the signs. I was quick to change my opinion upon reading.
I can't help but wonder how this is even possible, logistically. Think about it: first the sign would have to be recognized by someone, next that person would have to send the sign electronically to the athletic trainer, then the athletic trainer would have to relay the sign to a player, and finally that player would have to call something out to the batter and hopes that he hears him with some 37,000 fans cheering. This all has to happen before or as the pitcher begins his windup, which is really a mere couple of seconds.
There are holes in this investigation that we may never be figured out. In fact, I doubt we’ll ever truly find out exactly how the Red Sox did this. I just hope the Celtics stay clean because I was starting to like them.
Half of me is shocked, a small portion of me is actually disgusted because the rest of me is impressed by this stunt. I start to become less and less shocked from the cheating happening in the first place because I realize that this is another New England team. I am more stunned by how the Red Sox pulled this off. Before I read the article, I give the players the benefit of the doubt; maybe they didn't know how the coach (or whoever) was getting the signs. I was quick to change my opinion upon reading.
I can't help but wonder how this is even possible, logistically. Think about it: first the sign would have to be recognized by someone, next that person would have to send the sign electronically to the athletic trainer, then the athletic trainer would have to relay the sign to a player, and finally that player would have to call something out to the batter and hopes that he hears him with some 37,000 fans cheering. This all has to happen before or as the pitcher begins his windup, which is really a mere couple of seconds.
There are holes in this investigation that we may never be figured out. In fact, I doubt we’ll ever truly find out exactly how the Red Sox did this. I just hope the Celtics stay clean because I was starting to like them.
1
not that complicated -- someone sees the signal from catcher and sends a 'buzz' to the batter - short buzz fastball long buzz OR two buzzes .... etc
1
Red Sox cheating to beat the Yankees?! Not a surprise.
6
On one hand, my reaction is, another Boston team ? no wonder the city had been racking up the championships recently.
But on the other hand, this is baseball, where cheating is almost an art form as long as you're not caught (consider the stolen base ;). All those hand signals and mouths covered with gloves to keep prying eyes and ears at bay.
It sure took a while for anyone to do anything about steroids- and if everyone was doing it, some say, why should it be penalized; nowadays the ball is flying out again, baseball claims nothing has changed. Uh huh.
So although I did get worked up regarding Belicheat, somehow this story elicits more of a yawn - Yankees, are you saying this is the reason you only three of four games vs the Red Sox last week?
But on the other hand, this is baseball, where cheating is almost an art form as long as you're not caught (consider the stolen base ;). All those hand signals and mouths covered with gloves to keep prying eyes and ears at bay.
It sure took a while for anyone to do anything about steroids- and if everyone was doing it, some say, why should it be penalized; nowadays the ball is flying out again, baseball claims nothing has changed. Uh huh.
So although I did get worked up regarding Belicheat, somehow this story elicits more of a yawn - Yankees, are you saying this is the reason you only three of four games vs the Red Sox last week?
2
Despite the illicit terminology, "stealing" bases is a regular part of the game, not in any sense cheating. There are perfectly legitimate forms of deception and gamesmanship in baseball, from fake throws to hidden-ball-trick.
Even reading an opponent's signs, *on the field*, is not a written-rule violation, though it is in the class of actions that, when detected, tend to get batters drilled.
This is different, a specific violation of an MLB Commissioner's executive-order policy: "No club shall use electronic equipment, including walkie-talkies and cellular telephones, to communicate to or with any on-field personnel, including those, in the dugout, bullpen, field and-during the game-the clubhouse."
Even reading an opponent's signs, *on the field*, is not a written-rule violation, though it is in the class of actions that, when detected, tend to get batters drilled.
This is different, a specific violation of an MLB Commissioner's executive-order policy: "No club shall use electronic equipment, including walkie-talkies and cellular telephones, to communicate to or with any on-field personnel, including those, in the dugout, bullpen, field and-during the game-the clubhouse."
“We will conduct a thorough investigation” Mr. Manfred said..."?
Sure! Just like Nixon, Chris Christie, or Trump!
No way they're gonna rock, overturn or impede the money cart in any way !
Sure! Just like Nixon, Chris Christie, or Trump!
No way they're gonna rock, overturn or impede the money cart in any way !
1
And just like Belichick, John Farrell knows nothing.
9
If it is done in public where everyone can see it; it's fair game. Devise a better scheme to communicate between teammates.
The signals the Red Sox stole helped them lose three out of four to the Yankees, while being badly outscored. Whatever the Apple watches told them, it didn't help them score runs. A scheme that gives no apparent advantage and maybe even causes disadvantage is cheating to no effect. Maybe they stole the wrong signals. Maybe the Yankees were on to their ruse. The proper punishment, as suggested bu USA Today, would be requiring the Red Sox to answer every last question of the New York media.
3
If a bank robber dosent steal any or too much money (s)he is still a bank robber !
2
The took their orders from the Patriots and updated it for more modern technology. Tom Brady will be proud, please dont ask for cell phones and text messages as evidence and just like Brady those wont be handed over.
3
As usual, more of the same old. A team from Massachusetts having to cheat to win.
3
Goes back to stealing cannons from the British in New York's Fort Ticonderoga. It worked well then for a Boston bookmaker, er, bookseller.
Professional sports teams are as mercenary as professional hedge-fund managers: maximize profits. Whoever thinks thinks that a Boston athlete represents his community is fooling himself.
8
Like Hester Prynne's "A," put a "C" on all Red Sox uniforms as punishment. With a logo of dirty socks.
10
Where are the whistle blowers? What happens when a player is traded from the Red Sox? How widespread is this? We have much to discover but this portends sad news for baseball fans.
I like the gamesmanship of legal sign-stealing whether it's a runner on second base deciphering the alternate sequence or just a pitcher tipping his pitches. I'm okay with selling the ump on making a catch or a catcher framing pitches to make balls look like strikes or a fielder deking a runner. But it's not gamesmanship when explicitly written rules are broken. It's cheating.
And just as in the steroid era, Managers are saying, "Really? In my clubhouse??" Yeah, right!
I like the gamesmanship of legal sign-stealing whether it's a runner on second base deciphering the alternate sequence or just a pitcher tipping his pitches. I'm okay with selling the ump on making a catch or a catcher framing pitches to make balls look like strikes or a fielder deking a runner. But it's not gamesmanship when explicitly written rules are broken. It's cheating.
And just as in the steroid era, Managers are saying, "Really? In my clubhouse??" Yeah, right!
12
Gosh, I remember when all there was to the game was muscle, reflexes, skill and heart. And a little bit of eavesdropping.
That's all you remember of the game? How old are you?
1
Disqualify the Sox from postseason. And vacate the 1951 NL pennant. The giants cheated.
6
I guess Baseball needs Roger Goodell to step in and make a few egregiously arbitrary decisions for a different sport. The fact is that Tom Brady and Bill Belichik showed that they can win without "enhancements" this past season, but the naysayers continue to call them out for past deeds. What a shame. Competitors will have to own up it, or continue to pretend that "new cheats" just haven't been discovered yet.
" the naysayers continue to call them out for past deeds."
When you cheat, you lose credibility forever. Defending cheating is just as bad.
When you cheat, you lose credibility forever. Defending cheating is just as bad.
3
So if Lance Armstrong beats me in a bike race all is forgiven?
So the Yankees do the same thing (steal signs using a communications relay from camera operators), but no headlines because they didn't use an Apple Watch? And now we get to hear New Yorkers whine about Boston sports teams yet again. The rest of the country yawns.
3
Stop yawning and check your facts. Red Sox admitted stealing signs with the Apple watch, which is against the rules. Yanks have admitted nothing; Girardi laughed at the accusation.
6
Girardi laughed at the accusation? Well, I guess that settles that! What a relief.
So, professional players are not able to hit the next pitch without cheating... and they're paid HOW MUCH?
4
These are men playing a child's game. Does anyone really care? My young (18) niece says baseball is dead, and I tend to agree with her. There are far bigger issues worthy of news.
3
Why don't you try to play?
1
Hey there, I see plenty of young girls, kids, and teens at baseball games loving every minute. And I'm from a city that has never had a winning team. It is the one sport where you can bring the family, at least in San Diego.
4
Sorry, but only players with overwhelming feelings of inadequacy would be cheating. Do you think Ted Williams and other natural greats would ever have given so much as a moment's thought to doing such a thing?
2
I haven't watched baseball in 30 years. It's a sport of the 1800s and 1900s, not 2000s.
It's a beautiful game, Sligo.
Did you flush strolls in the park down your toilet also ?
Did you flush strolls in the park down your toilet also ?
11
If you're so disinterested in baseball, then why are you bothering to read this article and comment on it?
7
Are you Rip Van winkle?
4
Many Red-Sox haters (and I assume, Yankees fans) posting comments here conveniently slip right over the detail that the Red-Sox also accuse the Yankees of stealing signs using YES cameras. Cheating is NOT endemic to Boston, folks. Remember in a play-off game several years ago when A-Rod deliberately knocked the ball out of a pitcher's glove while both were running to first base? Not highly technological, but still cheating.
Stealing signs in baseball has existed as long as the game has been played. The only difference here is the technology involved. The Yankees are probably only upset because they didn't think of this method first.
Stealing signs in baseball has existed as long as the game has been played. The only difference here is the technology involved. The Yankees are probably only upset because they didn't think of this method first.
1
There is an unsubtle distinction between a confessed violation and an as yet unproven counteraccusation that looks like an effort to muddy the waters.
ARod was out, for interference.
ARod was out, for interference.
1
What is it with Boston sports teams that they feel the need to cheat in order to win? First the Patriots, now the Red Sox. Celtics next?
As a Sox fan, I am surely disappointed. Stealing signs in the moment, as referred to in the article, i.e: an attentive runner on second base, is one thing - any player on either side can try to pick up any kind of signal from the opposing players and coaches and perhaps use it to his advantage. But a deliberate broad based off field plot is something altogether different.
And here I was thinking someone was stealing OUR signs - after Chris Sales' last couple pummelings I was sure something illicit was going on.
I had heard the accusations of the Yankees using YES tv before, but two wrongs don't make a right.
In particular it bothers me that the players were in the know specifically about HOW they were getting that information. A team leader like Pedroia?? And sullying a great young prospect like Devers?
A real shame.
And here I was thinking someone was stealing OUR signs - after Chris Sales' last couple pummelings I was sure something illicit was going on.
I had heard the accusations of the Yankees using YES tv before, but two wrongs don't make a right.
In particular it bothers me that the players were in the know specifically about HOW they were getting that information. A team leader like Pedroia?? And sullying a great young prospect like Devers?
A real shame.
4
Well, I guess sports at the pro and Olympic level rely as much on who cheats best as it does on who plays best. You want no cheating, watch your kid play tee ball.
First the Patriots, now the Red Sox. Can no one win up there without cheating?
1
Is MLB going to bench Tom Brady for the next four games? How did that turn out, Roger BADell?
not that it helped much this weekend...
2
Why do Boston teams seem to feel the need to cheat? What is in the water? And who put the bop in the bop-shu-bop-shu-bop?
1
Maxwell Smart and Agent 99 on the job. ;)
3
Lot of bad karma with the Sox at this point. First they abuse Eckersley on the team plane, for the terrible sin of criticizing a player, and now this. Not surprising their lead is evaporating.
If Boston city's motto isn't
" If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'"
it should be.
" If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'"
it should be.
3
Too bad for that Red Sox rookie, Rafael Devers. Nobody will ever believe he did this red hot start to his career without electronic help from his friends.
2
Just play the game y'all!
Just stop saying "y'all" and we'll play the game.
2
If you're not cheating your not trying.
When Pete Rose and Barry Bonds are inducted into the Hall of Fame, perhaps I'll start to again believe MLB baseball is something more than a business. America's Pastime? No, using gadgets is America's Pastime, and MLB owners will continues to do their best to emulate that reality. As to MLB purity, it's no more real than virtual reality.
Anyway, what's the big deal here? Sixty-six years ago the Giants used telescopes to steal signals to get into and then win the playoff against the Dodgers. The only thing new in this case is that, as with scoreboards, there's new technology. What do you expect when the game is more and more given to technology, to instant replay, to people wanting to have gadgets call balls and strikes, to have the game "shortened" to keep TV execs and non-fan "fans" happy?
Baseball has, sadly, become pretty much just another marketable commodity. Fans and TV replay want dramatic home runs, so the owners encouraged steroids. Fans and the President conduct their affairs on electronic gadgets, Why expect owners not to do the same?.
MLB is a business, and it conducts itself as does any other business. Sure, those of us who love the game would like to see it "pure." Well, that fantasy disappeared with the introduction of the Designated Hitter. Yeah, I'll still treasure my ticket stubs from Ebbets Field, and I'll still love to watch the guys play, but I have no illusions that what happens off the field does not significantly affect what happens on the field.
Anyway, what's the big deal here? Sixty-six years ago the Giants used telescopes to steal signals to get into and then win the playoff against the Dodgers. The only thing new in this case is that, as with scoreboards, there's new technology. What do you expect when the game is more and more given to technology, to instant replay, to people wanting to have gadgets call balls and strikes, to have the game "shortened" to keep TV execs and non-fan "fans" happy?
Baseball has, sadly, become pretty much just another marketable commodity. Fans and TV replay want dramatic home runs, so the owners encouraged steroids. Fans and the President conduct their affairs on electronic gadgets, Why expect owners not to do the same?.
MLB is a business, and it conducts itself as does any other business. Sure, those of us who love the game would like to see it "pure." Well, that fantasy disappeared with the introduction of the Designated Hitter. Yeah, I'll still treasure my ticket stubs from Ebbets Field, and I'll still love to watch the guys play, but I have no illusions that what happens off the field does not significantly affect what happens on the field.
1
I'm pretty sure with the revelations about Rose's sordid sexual escapades with children he's, owing to statutes of limitations, not in jail, but fortunately out of baseball for good. Meantime, Bonds clearly cheated and his exclusion from the HoF has nothing to do with MLB.
O no, Cheating in Boston again. Where's Belicheck
1
Snowplowgate, Spygate, Deflategate, and now Applegate; what's coming next out of the New Englanders. Oh, ah, everyone does it.
Good-Fences-Make-Good-Neighborsgate.
It's all part of the game
Farrell had to do something to win. His management and the team's performance aren't cutting it. They probably won't make the playoffs.
1
The rule is against using technology, not stealing signals. One Apple watch in the Red Sox dugout breaks the rule. But it would be virtually impossible for anyone in the Yankee dugout to see. So the Yankees had to be spying on the Red Sox dugout with technology, perhaps looking for signals from the manager or coaches. At any rate, they had to use technology to break this case open. And, as I said, technology is what baseball objects to.
" But it would be virtually impossible for anyone in the Yankee dugout to see." Assumptions.
Do you know how foolish you sound defending Boston?
Do you know how foolish you sound defending Boston?
According to the article the video the Yanks submitted "showed a member of the Red Sox training staff looking at his Apple Watch in the dugout. The trainer then relayed a message to other players in the dugout, who, in turn, would signal teammates on the field about the type of pitch that was about to be thrown."
The rule is against using technology "during a game... to communicate to or with any on-field personnel, including those in the dugout, bullpen, field and, during the game, the clubhouse. No equipment may be used for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying information designed to give a Club an advantage."
There's no reason at all to think the Yanks' video violated this rule. And do you really think they'd have submitted it if it did?
The rule is against using technology "during a game... to communicate to or with any on-field personnel, including those in the dugout, bullpen, field and, during the game, the clubhouse. No equipment may be used for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying information designed to give a Club an advantage."
There's no reason at all to think the Yanks' video violated this rule. And do you really think they'd have submitted it if it did?
Technology can eliminate the need for hand signals. The solution is to put something on the catchers glove or uniform that he can touch which relays a signal to the pitcher. The same could be used by coaches to signal the batter or base runners.
1
There is no doubt that the sport of baseball has developed and changed dramatically since it began a very long time ago. However, as much as the beautiful game has had it's alterations, much has stayed the same. One common theme that is consistent throughout not only baseball, but in nearly all sports is the act cheating. It has become so common to hear about cheating scandals that have taken place on the sports field resulting in penalties and fines that are unimaginable. These drawbacks create such a negative connotation and reputation for the word "cheating", and although there are certainly a variety of negative aspects of cheating, there is also positives. Cheating is an act done out of love, bravery, and desire, words not commonly associated with cheating. In the cheating scandal with the Red Sox using apple watches, employees went out of their way to try to come up with solution and advantage to try to win the game, because in sports, winning is everything. The Red Sox showed their love for the game by trying to get a leg up and significant advantage over their fierce rival the Yankees. They showed bravery by participating in such a risky operation knowing they could be caught and punished severely. They showed desire, their desire to win and succeed, by creating a never before used method and technique in order to beat the Yankees. There is no doubt that cheating is common throughout sports, however it is done out of love, bravery, and desire for the beautiful game.
Cheating has negative connotations because it is bad, wrong and dishonorable. If you can't play fair and square, it doesn't demonstrate your love of the game, it demonstrates your disrespect for its rules and, by extension, the game itself, not to mention all the other players on the field. A cheater is not brave - a cheater is cowardly - someone unable, incapable or unwilling to achieve their objective honestly, resorting instead to underhanded methods. Bottom line: what these players did was both dishonorable and dishonest. Had they been men with moral courage, they would not have participated and respected the rules of the game you claim they love.
2
You're kidding, right?
1
Wow, sounds like Red Sox were following the unethical lead of the Patriots, accused of jamming opponents headsets and the Deflategate scandal.
C'mon guys, just play the game.
C'mon guys, just play the game.
2
Sox getting caught means a modern version of the Curse of the Bambino is back?
1
Besides Apple Watches, another part of the times we live in is suing when accused of wrongdoing, and spending more money hiring lawyers--expensive celebrity lawyers at that--than it would take to pay any fine the commissioner could hand down. The notion of the commissioner having broad authority to act in the best interests of baseball is antiquated in these litigious times.
4
Great writing by Michael Schmidt. I suppose that Boston needs this electronic help. I have an Apple Watch which is very useful to me, but I don't get Yankees signals.
In general, pro sports have been in a mess for various reasons, including under-inflated footballs and PEDs. Now we have EEDs, electronic enhancing devices. Is there any honesty in sports anymore?
In general, pro sports have been in a mess for various reasons, including under-inflated footballs and PEDs. Now we have EEDs, electronic enhancing devices. Is there any honesty in sports anymore?
1
Seeking an advantage has been part of competition since the dawn of time.
A great little tweet, @D.A.Oh. So anything goes, eh? You can't make an argument for that.
In 1951, the Giants record on the road was much better than at home during that stretch run. The allegation has never been proved and Bobby Thompson denied td his dying day that he had a tip off on the pitch. The day before, in the Polo Grounds the Dodgers had won 10-0.
2
The Wall Street Journal apparently confirmed the Giants employed guys with telescopes to steal signs.
As a Bobby Thompson who has endlessly heard about the Shot Heard 'Round The World, I'm compelled to point out that the man who hit it was named Thomson. I can't comment on whether or not it was assisted, but I've been fighting this battle for 30-something years! The more you know :)
1
C'Mon. Sal Yvars, the Giants' catcher, admitted it, and they found the telescope. So "never been proved" is nonsense. 42 and 14 in last 56 games of the season. They won at home and on the road. Telescope was real. Maybe it helped Giants a bit. Whether Thomson knew the pitch is irrelevant. Cheating is cheating.
1
Maybe the pitcher and catcher cld communicate thro an Android watch.
Knowing a fast ball or curve ball is coming definitely makes it easier to hit. After reading many of the comments, there are a large percentage of them that are saying "everyone is doing it, the Red Sox just got caught". I find that defense familiar with the one I heard with "Deflategate" and do not agree. It absolves the team based on some speculation that it is rampant problem. But what really seems to bother me most is that Dustin Pedroria was involved - and up to this point I had respected him as a player. No more. Unfortunately this level of cheating to win games can't feel good to them.
31
The only people who would condone this behavior are people who never played sports or people who don't understand that cheating makes their sports career completely irrelevant.
Losers, every one.
Losers, every one.
1
Finally, some discovered an actual use for Apple Watches!
35
Apple Watches are amazing, no matter what you do with them.
1
Not surprised.
Sox have always been a no-class organization in a bush league town.
Sox have always been a no-class organization in a bush league town.
2
the baseball Gods/commissioner's office will take care of this problem by making certain that its office and the teams continue to make as much money as possible. of course, they will not talk much about the fact that some of the adults in the game are showing the kids how to cheat and get away with it.
the Red Sox should be barred from the playoffs this year if they are now able to keep winning, etc. they are dirty cheaters and were caught. maybe this is why i am a national league fan. as a cardinal fan, we do our cheating in the front office, etc and get the government to throw the cheaters into the jail house.
the Red Sox should be barred from the playoffs this year if they are now able to keep winning, etc. they are dirty cheaters and were caught. maybe this is why i am a national league fan. as a cardinal fan, we do our cheating in the front office, etc and get the government to throw the cheaters into the jail house.
1
And Pete Rose was banned for life for betting on his own team...
6
Alot of good it did. Sox lost 3 of 4
3
The NYY were not the only team RS cheated against - see the first paragraph.
They were doing it at Fenway, not at the Stadium.
Is there something in the air/water in Boston that cause its professional sports teams to cheat? I'm just sayin' . . .
7
"The Red Sox responded in kind on Tuesday, filing a complaint against the Yankees, claiming that the team uses a camera from its YES television network exclusively to steal signs during games."
Strangely, this allegation isn't found in this article's headline.
Strangely, this allegation isn't found in this article's headline.
1
It wasn't in the headline because it's an allegation, whereas the Red Sox admitted to stealing signs
The Sox admitted they did it; they Yankees have not.
I thought I saw Belichick at Fenway.
3
Red Sox, Patriots why can't the NE teams just play ball?
4
The next thing you know we'll find out players have been doping!
3
I just loathe technology.
Whatever happened to the good old days of bringing in some hooks, liquor and a few guyz whose last names end in vowels?
Just make em an offer they can't refuse!
Whatever happened to the good old days of bringing in some hooks, liquor and a few guyz whose last names end in vowels?
Just make em an offer they can't refuse!
4
What's with Boston? First the Patriots get fined for the illegal filming of Jet practices, now the Red Sox get caught stealing Yankee signs. Boston dirty!
6
The Red Sox are whiny cheaters Their season should end today.
3
All is fair in war and love AND baseball.
Oh, c'mon, what's the big deal? Anybody remember "The Shot Heard Round The World?" Ralph Branca sure did. What do you expect when the game is more and more given to the technology of instant replay, of otherwise reasonable people wanting to have gadgets call balls and strikes, of the game "shortened" to keep TV execs and non-fan "fans" happy?
Baseball has, sadly, become pretty much just another marketable commodity. Fans and TV replay want dramatic home runs, so the owners encourage steroids. Fans and the President conduct their affairs on electronic gadgets, so the owners do the same.
MLB is a business, and it conducts itself as does any other business. Sure, those of us who love the game would like to see it "pure." Well, that fantasy disappeared with the introduction of the Designated Hitter. Yeah, I'll still treasure my ticket stubs from Ebbets Field, and I'll still love to watch the guys play, but I have no illusions that what happens off the field does not significantly affect what happens on the field.
When Pete Rose and Barry Bonds are inducted into the Hall of Fame, perhaps I'll start to again believe MLB baseball is something more than a business. America's Pastime? No, living online is America's Pastime, and MLB owners will continues to do their best to emulate that reality. As to MLB purity, it's an oxymoron as much as virtual reality.
Baseball has, sadly, become pretty much just another marketable commodity. Fans and TV replay want dramatic home runs, so the owners encourage steroids. Fans and the President conduct their affairs on electronic gadgets, so the owners do the same.
MLB is a business, and it conducts itself as does any other business. Sure, those of us who love the game would like to see it "pure." Well, that fantasy disappeared with the introduction of the Designated Hitter. Yeah, I'll still treasure my ticket stubs from Ebbets Field, and I'll still love to watch the guys play, but I have no illusions that what happens off the field does not significantly affect what happens on the field.
When Pete Rose and Barry Bonds are inducted into the Hall of Fame, perhaps I'll start to again believe MLB baseball is something more than a business. America's Pastime? No, living online is America's Pastime, and MLB owners will continues to do their best to emulate that reality. As to MLB purity, it's an oxymoron as much as virtual reality.
3
How is giving signs with one's hands any different than calling out verbally for all to hear?
You're communicating openly, with no reasonable expectation of privacy. Why do teams get mad when the opposition eavesdrops?
You're communicating openly, with no reasonable expectation of privacy. Why do teams get mad when the opposition eavesdrops?
6
You're prohibited from using any electronics in the dugout to facilitate sign stealing. Sox used an Apple watch and Farrell acknowledged it was illegal. Going to be fined, and maybe lose a draft pick or two.
2
"calling out verbally for all to hear?"
This is fantasy.
This is fantasy.
Reasonable expectation of privacy is not really relevant. Yes, stealing signs, like by a base runner, is part of the game. Catchers and pitchers guard against it as well as they can. The difference here is the use of video to steal the signs and the use of technology in the dugout to disseminate the information, both of which are illegal per league rules.
1
They've worked hard to kill baseball; it is dead, so who cares?
Signed, Disgusted.
Signed, Disgusted.
2
What is about Boston/Foxboro?
3
Just who is the Evil Empire now?
7
The Red Sox have always had power hitters in their lineup. Half their games at Fenway, a sluggers dream, and this year they are 26th in the league in homers. Apparently their lack of run production and frustration led to this. Just add them to the Patriots and Celts who were also always looking for an edge. Boston may be Title-town but they cheat to do it.
2
Stealing signs is as old as baseball, sure, it's part of playing the game, it's even permitted by rule. Using performance-enhancing technology makes it cheating.
Another thing that's as old as baseball and just as treasured a part of its history is the idea that if you can get away with it, it isn't cheating. (Other examples include doctoring the ball or corking a bat. And no one expects a player to call himself out if the ump misses the call.)
Even using baseball ethics, however, they got caught. They admitted it. And it's not like one altered ball or bat got caught. It's more like your team uses only corked bats whenever there's a man on second. So they didn't get away with it, and they shouldn't somehow get away with it a little bit now. Anything short of severe punishment will just encourage other teams to do this, or keep doing it, and will make the commissioner look complicit and weak.
I'm not convinced that, in the end, electronics can be adequately policed. I'd like to see the first pro sports league, any sport, that integrates technology and lets all players and coaches communicate with each other in real time with voice, text, photo, and video, using watches, in-ear speakers, tiny mics, VR display, anything and everything, whatever. It wouldn't be cheating if you allowed it. It wouldn't be "baseball as we know it" either but I bet people would watch.
Another thing that's as old as baseball and just as treasured a part of its history is the idea that if you can get away with it, it isn't cheating. (Other examples include doctoring the ball or corking a bat. And no one expects a player to call himself out if the ump misses the call.)
Even using baseball ethics, however, they got caught. They admitted it. And it's not like one altered ball or bat got caught. It's more like your team uses only corked bats whenever there's a man on second. So they didn't get away with it, and they shouldn't somehow get away with it a little bit now. Anything short of severe punishment will just encourage other teams to do this, or keep doing it, and will make the commissioner look complicit and weak.
I'm not convinced that, in the end, electronics can be adequately policed. I'd like to see the first pro sports league, any sport, that integrates technology and lets all players and coaches communicate with each other in real time with voice, text, photo, and video, using watches, in-ear speakers, tiny mics, VR display, anything and everything, whatever. It wouldn't be cheating if you allowed it. It wouldn't be "baseball as we know it" either but I bet people would watch.
7
The commissioner should take away all Boston victories where cheating was present and erase the offensive statistics of known cheaters for the games in which they stole signs. If Pete Rose can (rightly) be kept out of the Hall of Fame for damaging the integrity of the game, MLB can and should take the harshest measures possible against the Red Sox. Anything less would leave a black spot on baseball.
4
Wait - I'm not a big pro baseball watcher, but what, do all the catchers on all the teams use the exact same hand signals? Why don't they use a little encryption in their signalling? And, why can't the pitcher decide on his own what to throw?
Regarding your last question, at a minimum, the catcher needs to know what's coming, and where.
Professional and college-level sports. Why bother?
They're just businesses trying to extract as much money as possible from their fans.
They're just businesses trying to extract as much money as possible from their fans.
2
Death penalty for a crime as old as the game. Come on, seriously for a team
with an absolutely anemic level of offensive production, where is evidence of the alleged advantage that the Red Sox have gained? Technology may have helped the level of communications but it's hardly showing in their run output and offensive stats.
with an absolutely anemic level of offensive production, where is evidence of the alleged advantage that the Red Sox have gained? Technology may have helped the level of communications but it's hardly showing in their run output and offensive stats.
1
You argument is specious. They were charged with, and reportedly found guilty of, illegal use of technology in their dugout, not stealing signs. MLB does NOT have to prove they gained an advantage therein (that would be very difficult to establish in any case), merely that they violated those rules. Your position is equivalent to saying that if a burglar breaks into a house, steals jewelry that turns out to be costume, and has to throw it away because he is unable to get any money for it, then no crime was committed.
Leave it to the Red Sox to cheat. It's apparently a sports tradition in New England. Football; baseball; what's next?
I'll stick with rooting for the Yankees, whether they win or lose, but my distaste for the Red Sox has reached a new amplitude with this revelation of poor sporting behavior.
"Cheaters never prosper," according to my grandmother. I hope she's correct.
I'll stick with rooting for the Yankees, whether they win or lose, but my distaste for the Red Sox has reached a new amplitude with this revelation of poor sporting behavior.
"Cheaters never prosper," according to my grandmother. I hope she's correct.
4
The simple answer to fix sign stealing is to allow the pitcher and catcher the use of technology to communicate pitch strategy.
I just can't get worked up about cheating in for-profit professional sports when there is real-world cheating and law-breaking going on that actually affects peoples' lives.
36
Understood.
I guess the gist of this is that the "cheating scandal" (if there is one) in baseball is indeed a real one, affecting people's lives, and is a microcosm of the greater important world.
Also, baseball is a BIG business.
I guess the gist of this is that the "cheating scandal" (if there is one) in baseball is indeed a real one, affecting people's lives, and is a microcosm of the greater important world.
Also, baseball is a BIG business.
3
So does this mean that no team has the right to steal signs from the Yankees? The high and mighty Yankees never stole signs from the Red Sox, Orioles, Rays, or Blue Jays? Have they investigated all other American League teams about their methods of stealing signs or is it just the current top team in New York's division? Sounds like September sour grapes from the Pinstripes.
8
All teams have the right under the rules to steal signs if they can. It is as old as baseball. However, the modern issue here is the use of sophisticated electronics (impermissible) vs. eyes, ears, and hands.
6
I guess you did not read the article at all. It mentions several incidents.
Besides the Red Sox have a history; they have been caught before.
Besides the Red Sox have a history; they have been caught before.
1
There is no rule about stealing signs, so any team has the right to steal them from any other team. The violation that is being investigated is the use of electronic devices in the dugout, which is prohibited. Sorry to spoil your sour grapes theory.
7
Don't expect anything noble to happen. Baseball is a business, not a sport.
9
The way to solve this problem is to simply lift all restrictions on sign-stealing. This is the digital age and if the rules allow for visual sign-stealing then we just have to step up and get with the times. May the best hackers win!
3
Agree on that point - if you don't want your signs stolen, develop better signs. Switching them up would give you a big advantage against a batter expecting a different pitch.
Could have been worse. Sox could have used microwave ovens to steal signs.
7
But if they did that, they'd get lunch, right?
What is it with New England sports teams and cheating? Maybe we need a new motto: Boston Wrong.
21
The real problem is New England sports teams and winning. Nobody complains when the division doormats steal signs.
2
A New England team cheating? No way, can't be. Fake news.
27
I got the Tom Brady model , the iphoney
2
The Patriots, the Red Sox...do the Bruins and Celtics cheat too?
5
There's an app for that?
15
Seems to be the standard in Boston sports!
14
Now we know what Bill Belichick does over the summer.
19
Come on guys play the game fairly. You get paid too much money to cheat.
12
In baseball, if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.
4
Technology is the Devil. Always there to give the sinners and cheats a leg up.
1
Wait -- didn't you post that with Technology Devil?
1
Forfeit all the games in which they have proof of the Cheaters and If Major League Baseball does not come down hard on Boston then let drugs be legal and apologize to Pete Rose and put him in the Hall of Fame big time -
8
No! Say it ain't so - !
5
First the "Inflatriots", now this. Can't they steal signs the old fashioned way?
2
You mean using a telescope like the Giants did in 1951 against the Dodgers?
1
Obvious the Red Sox and their fans still suffer from a massive inferiority complex toward the Yankees. Their abject sense of inadequacy is so extreme that they feel compelled to cheat. Utterly pathetic.
13
Really !!! What do you expect from the Boston Way (cheating). Pats first, now the Sox....lol
7
As a Yankee fan, I say let this pass with a warning (+give the same warning to the NYY if they've been grabbing signs via YES cameras). This stuff is common practice and pretty small potatoes, as was Deflategate. Nothing compared to the use of skill-enhancing substances, a la Arod, Clemons, Manny+Big Popi.
7
Spygate. Deflategate. iGate.
In New England, if you're not cheating, you're not trying!
'Boston strong'?
In New England, if you're not cheating, you're not trying!
'Boston strong'?
16
Good grief. We are becoming a nation of liars and cheats.
7
Becoming? You're a little late to the party. Liars and cheats built this country.
1
When was the innocent age?
2
They should have the Sox forfeit all their wins to the Yankees. Just like the Pats ... a bunch of cheaters.
3
I came here solely for the comments.
90
I don't understand...
2
Based on the results of this past weekend series, I'd say the Sox system needs improvement.
6
There are lots of easy fixes to discourage this shabby behaviour:
1. For every game where the Red Sox did this, and won the game, subtract two from their win column and add two to their loss column. For every game where the Red Sox did this, and lost the game, subtract one from the wins, and add one to the losses.
2. Fine them ten million dollars for every game where they did this.
3. Ban the "hare-brains" behind this scheme from baseball, for life.
or, if you are a baseball fan:
4. Stop watching baseball, and go to the casinos. The rules are known, there.
1. For every game where the Red Sox did this, and won the game, subtract two from their win column and add two to their loss column. For every game where the Red Sox did this, and lost the game, subtract one from the wins, and add one to the losses.
2. Fine them ten million dollars for every game where they did this.
3. Ban the "hare-brains" behind this scheme from baseball, for life.
or, if you are a baseball fan:
4. Stop watching baseball, and go to the casinos. The rules are known, there.
5
Ever wonder why every time there is a conference at the mound, rarely do you see anyone speak without a hand or glove over their mouth? Where is the trust?
Given that level of paranoia, how would any team think this might not be going on? Answer is, they know it could be going on. The Red Sox just got caught taking it to another level with the watches.
Given that level of paranoia, how would any team think this might not be going on? Answer is, they know it could be going on. The Red Sox just got caught taking it to another level with the watches.
3
yes...the illegal level...
yes they were caught using electronics which is a violation of the rules. you can only put the robbers in jail who are caught in the act. the others escape.
Boston accused Cleveland of stealing signs in last year's ALDS. What goes around comes around. I wonder if the "other teams" mentioned in the article includes Cleveland, which visited Fenway in early August. The so-called game of the year included multiple comebacks by Boston.
3
I stopped watching professional sports when the Brooklyn Dodgers moved to LA.
The profit motive, no different in this case, ruined the thrill of sport for me.
The profit motive, no different in this case, ruined the thrill of sport for me.
2
They used Apple Watches to relay information to the dugout coaches but the signs were stolen the old fashion way. The headline is misleading.
10
Still don't think that's allowed though.
1
Stories like this make me miss Gaylord Perry -- who knew how do do it with class, elan, skill, and - most importantly -- with a smile on his face and a wink of his eye...
9
Gaylord Perry...haven't heard his name in a while.
I enthusiastically second your comment.
I enthusiastically second your comment.
Baseball and cheating go hand in hand now, and they still think they are "heroes? Strike three.
9
When was it that everyone played by the rules?
Several months ago, many sports experts predicted that the Mets would be in the post season and perhaps make it to the World Series. The Mets were thought to have a terrific pitching staff. Since they were National League champs in 2015, they were the envy of many teams and hence a target.
Although the Mets were decimated by injuries, I now wonder if the poor performances by Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler and others were due to sign stealing.
Although the Mets were decimated by injuries, I now wonder if the poor performances by Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler and others were due to sign stealing.
1
The obvious solution is no electronics in the possession of team employees on the field or in the dugouts.
14
And please, no jewelry. Chains are a distraction.
5
just keeping pace with their beloved Patriots.
56
Given their documented proclivities (like this latest case, Deflate Gate etc.), only if Boston had casinos, and the casinos all set and similarly figured out for the house. No income or sales taxes would be needed from any Commonwealth resident! Ever!
Or, perhaps, it is simply a Boston vs. NY thing.
Anyways, I do like the new-tech, Iwatch angle of this latest kerfuffle. Creative!
Or, perhaps, it is simply a Boston vs. NY thing.
Anyways, I do like the new-tech, Iwatch angle of this latest kerfuffle. Creative!
5
The solution is obvious: ban wristwatches at MLB ball parks.
2
Finally, a use for the Apple Watch.
310
I'm a long time Yankee fan. That being said stealing signals has been a part of the game forever ..... "the shot heard round the world" Bobby Thompson vs Ralph Branca
7
but not with electronics...
1
Sure it was electronics. Telegraph key or lights on the scoreboard. The Apple Watch of 1951.
If any team knows cheating, it's definitely the Yankees!
I mean how many times did A-Rod get busted?
Clemens?
Andy Pettite?
Should I keep going?
I mean how many times did A-Rod get busted?
Clemens?
Andy Pettite?
Should I keep going?
7
Stop when you get to Manny.
7
I think a stern punishment,such as banishing Red Sox from playoffs, will teach every one the lesson for the lack of morality and honesty; these two qualities are lacking in aspect of life in USA.
7
Time to give the pitcher and catcher (and possibly the rest of the fielders) an electronic device to transmit these "secretive" and outdated pitch-type finger signs.
ps...do not forget to install security software to protect against hacking :)
ps...do not forget to install security software to protect against hacking :)
5
Red Sox: We cheated, but so do you!
This kind of excuse wouldn't be tolerated from a four year old.
This kind of excuse wouldn't be tolerated from a four year old.
40
What's with the rampant cheating among Boston teams? First the Pats, now the Sox? I am a Yankee fan but can't see the commissioner taking away victories. But they should be punished severely. Losing their next two first round draft choices and a huge fine might be the right prescription.
4
Or make them take back, and play full time at 3rd base, Pablo Sandoval. That'll teach them.
2
Hey - now that's uncalled for!
C'mon......it's Obama's fault.........
I'm a fan of NY teams and I don't cry when those from Boston lose. That said, I thought Deflategate was ridiculous. Sign-stealing is part of the game and I don't care about this, either. Just hoping the Red Sox find a way for Chris Sale to start seven or eight games against us next year. It seems - when it comes to the Yankees - nothing can help him.
5
I was wondering why Tom Brady was hanging around the club house so often.
16
I agree with Jim Johnson--it's all about winning at any cost. No dignity left in pro games!
3
Ahh the good old "but everyone does it! no big deal!" (no evidence required that "everyone" does it) defense to cheating. Wouldn't it be just great if that was a legit excuse for cheating your way through life or education?
3
Hey, trying to figure out the signals IS part of the drama, folks.
1
Another sore loser NY team gets their league officials to conduct a kangaroo court proceeding against a superior Boston opponent. Nothing new here.
12
The Red Sox admitted to the charges. What kangaroo court?
10
Talk to me about losers when the Yanks go 86 years without a World Series win.
Sore loser?? The Yankees have been in a third of all modern World Series and won about a quarter of them. We weren't saddled with the "curse" as I recall, our neighbors to the North were labeled choke artists until very recently. As for the Pats, don't get me started. And where did your admittedly great coach get his chops? From Coach Parcells, of course. Did I mention Eli? Grow up.
2
I thought all along that Deflategate was a fake accusation, and I still do. I read the report... it was a scientifically illiterate smear.
This, on the other hand, I believe. Despite my love for the Sox being much greater than my love for the Pats. I guess they are due some punishment.
I will say - wearing my Sox hat - it would rankle a bit if the Sox ate a heavy punishment for something that so many other teams do and have been doing for years unpunished, but I guess if you're going to start enforcing rules you've got to start somewhere...
This, on the other hand, I believe. Despite my love for the Sox being much greater than my love for the Pats. I guess they are due some punishment.
I will say - wearing my Sox hat - it would rankle a bit if the Sox ate a heavy punishment for something that so many other teams do and have been doing for years unpunished, but I guess if you're going to start enforcing rules you've got to start somewhere...
57
"Deflategate" should be used to name Atlanta Falcon's offensive play calling in Superbowl LI.
No big deal. The the red sox are just like the pats, if you ain't cheating, you're not trying hard enough. At least that's what the rest of the country thinks of your sports teams.
30
Bellicheat and Trumpriots
Boston Red Sox
Krafty!!
Boston Strong.
Boston Red Sox
Krafty!!
Boston Strong.
2
And when you get BURNED on an incredibly stupid offensive play, and lose the championship game.
There was no cheating there.
There was no cheating there.
I am shocked -- Shocked! -- to find that hyper-competitive people are using the latest technology to gain advantages that may be worth millions of dollars to them!
124
In response to Reasonable Guy, the question is not "Should we be shocked?" Rather, it is "Should the team be penalized or should the League give all teams the "go ahead and cheat" sign?"
Isn't it one thing for the players on the field and in the dugout doing everything Humanly possible to win, and another to take the Human element out by using cameras or computers to accomplish things Humans can't do? Isn't that a form of PED? PET? Purists know "cheating signs" (open and obvious) is part of the game, but most will agree technology should be left to bats, balls and gloves. Even a computerized zone takes away from the game. And what's next bug the dugout? Where would it end if the limits were not left to Human capabilities. Submitted.
1
I am shocked -- Shocked! -- to find commenters in a public forum pedantically restating the obvious!
I'm more offended that the Sox gave money to the latest creepy fad Apple device just to do this.
At least be a professional, and invest in a proper button spy camera!
At least be a professional, and invest in a proper button spy camera!
17
Hahah. Good one. But a spy camera cant tell you your beats per minute is way above normal.
1
Hardly "creepy" -- amazingly versatile and this just proves it! LOL!
Give a transmitter to catchers capable of sending an encrypted code to his pitcher's Apple watch. Problem solved.
18
Sure. That'd never be hacked.
1
Only if the programmer was incompetent.
For a programmer with a rudimentary knowledge of encryption to create an encrypted message unbreakable by any but the fastest supercomputers would be a trivial matter.
It could be jammed, but that would wreak havoc on any other wireless system in use at the park. Anyone who's using a cellphone, for instance.
For a programmer with a rudimentary knowledge of encryption to create an encrypted message unbreakable by any but the fastest supercomputers would be a trivial matter.
It could be jammed, but that would wreak havoc on any other wireless system in use at the park. Anyone who's using a cellphone, for instance.
The solution, really, is obvious.
Let the pitcher and catcher wear their own Apple watches and exchange signs electronically. Problem solved, class dismissed.
Let the pitcher and catcher wear their own Apple watches and exchange signs electronically. Problem solved, class dismissed.
84
what if they get hacked...class sit down!
2
Good! Brilliant! Simple remedy. But how does MLB punish the Red Sox?
Apple products don't get hacked. Besides, hacker must operate within a period of 20 seconds.
Well its king of cheating but in baseball sign stealing is just as big part of the game and every team does it, from Little League to the Majors. Its one of the things that make Baseball great fun.
4
again, but not using electronics...if that is allowed where do we go from there??
Stealing signs is as old as baseball. Baseball is a game of intense observing, interpreting, and anticipating (why some of us love to follow the sport). Sadly, we'll now watch how the media flames the fire on this story, consuming pro sports for weeks, while incidents of beanballs, fights, and other forms of obvious cheating get less attention.
7
Yankees & Red Sox are done for the year, so of course this comes out now.
Huh? Do you watch Baseball?
OMG - it's a GAME! Yes it matters, but not enough to abandon all moral sense. Y'all have way too much money already, why do you want to cheat to get more?
9
LOL - It's how the "rich" stay rich!!!!!
Also, rich people can be incredibly cheap. You stay rich that way, too.
Also, rich people can be incredibly cheap. You stay rich that way, too.
1
Red Sox didn't steal signs agains the Orioles last week... they couldn't even win a game.
2
Not like it helped the Sox during this last four-game series.
8
At this point, I don't think the concept of "cheating" can any longer be fairly applied to professional sports. This article shows how widespread sign-stealing is, and still only covers the times teams have been caught!
It seems that institutional rule breaking in baseball and football are the equivalent of committing holding in football to prevent a touchdown. You don't really care if you get "caught". The expected benefits outweigh the penalties anyway.
It seems that institutional rule breaking in baseball and football are the equivalent of committing holding in football to prevent a touchdown. You don't really care if you get "caught". The expected benefits outweigh the penalties anyway.
1
Mostly in baseball will one hear of tactics like these. The game has cheating baked into it's culture since inception....too numerous to mention here. The look-the-other-way ethos lives and did with drugs in the clubhouse before they couldn't look the other way with the grotesque muscles and swollen heads showing up and suddenly the outrage!!
The leadership is to blame...they liked the money better than the "sanctity" of the game.
The leadership is to blame...they liked the money better than the "sanctity" of the game.
3
This is a game in which "stealing" bases -- basically, running when the other guy is not looking -- is celebrated. Now we are told that's not the only thing they ALL steal -- they steal signs too. Apparently, some, like the Sox, do it in a fancier way.
It's all a matter of degree ("I stole only $1,000, not $1,000,000, I swear!!").
That's not cricket.
It's all a matter of degree ("I stole only $1,000, not $1,000,000, I swear!!").
That's not cricket.
2
Here in 'murica, it's the other way around: "I stole only $1,000,000, not $1,000, I swear!!" will get you out of jail free, and a nice golden parachute.
3
As John Maynard Keynes reputedly said, "If you owe a bank a $1,000 dollars, you're trouble. But, if you the bank a million, then the bank is in trouble!"
Applies to Mr. So-Called President in spades!
Applies to Mr. So-Called President in spades!
1
I'm not gonna worry about this unless I find out that the Red Sox have been letting air out of the baseballs they are pitching to the Yankees.
15
Former Tiger Matt Stairs said this about sign stealing in 2010: "It's not cheating, it's just trying. If anybody thinks it isn't going on, they're living in a fantasy world. And with the technology that's available today, with all the video, nobody should be fooled by it. The bottom line is that it's tough to win games in this league and there's a lot of pressure to win games. So teams are going to look for every type of edge within the rules, and you can't really blame them for it."
3
Seriously? Stealing signs is as old as spitballs. Binoculars are old hat, and technology was acknowledged by MLB in 2010. Yes, even instant-replay video.
"And that's basically the rub as far as sign-stealing goes. Do what you want, but don't be surprised if you get nailed while doing it."
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/10449618//
"And that's basically the rub as far as sign-stealing goes. Do what you want, but don't be surprised if you get nailed while doing it."
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/10449618//
15
wait.......
is it the water?
Bellichek and the Trumpriots stealing game communications
Boston Red Sox stealing game communications
Krafty!!
Boston Strong!!
is it the water?
Bellichek and the Trumpriots stealing game communications
Boston Red Sox stealing game communications
Krafty!!
Boston Strong!!
21
It's unfortunate any team is deemed as cheaters despite their record good or bad. With that said in the world of sports cheating exists on all levels and in good and bad organizations. New York fans rejoice when Boston/New England teams are 'caught' doing something many teams do. This situation, Spy gate, as well deflated football's are all examples of rampant 'cheating' that is not seldom to Boston or New England teams. It's against the rules but everyone does it, like many things in this country. Believing these acts are inherent to a region and not part of a national culture of bending let alone breaking the rules is ludicrous.
34
You're certainly right that teams all around the country will bend and break the rules. But what should we do about the Red Sox?
2
don't worry, Boston's buddy Trump will make sure nothing happens to Sox's mangement.
1
@Stan, what should we do about the Red Sox? If there is clear evidence that they cheated in a particular game, if that game was a close win, that win should be taken away.
1
Wicked Cheaters!
3
I just we're just going to forget about that time Michael Pineda got caught with pine tar on his neck huh? Hypocrisy at its finest.
12
How many times? What year? Red Sox/Patriots have cheated multiple times in multiple years.
No.....Pineda was held responsible for his cheating.......
It's now necessary for the Red Sox to do the same.
Please look for the definition of "hypocrisy" online.....
It's now necessary for the Red Sox to do the same.
Please look for the definition of "hypocrisy" online.....
1
yeah? He got ejected and a 10 game suspension. Facts man. It's only hypocrisy if the Bosox don't get nailed.
Michael S Schmidt! Russian election hacking, Comey firing, and now Boston Red Sox sign stealing. Your investigative skills are expansive. There must be a book to be written in your next phase of career.
4
Between the Patriots and the Red Sox, The Boston area is gaining quite a reputation for altnernative winning methods. Trump will probably be calling on them soon for advice on North Korea.
51
"... alternative winning methods..."
ALT-WIN! ALT-WIN! ALT-WIN!
ALT-WIN! ALT-WIN! ALT-WIN!
As a Yankees fan, I will reserve my indignation until the cross-complaint about the Yankees stealing signs is resolved.
It's hard to know how effective this attempt to cheat has been. In Boston, the Yankees beat the Red Sox 5 games to 4 and in New York 6 games to 4. Also, throughout the year the Red Sox have not had good success getting hits with runners in scoring position, just the situation where stealing signs would help the most.
Of course, not succeeding by cheating does not excuse it! If Boston was using illicit means to steal signs they should be penalized for it. The notion that only video operators and players and trainers were involved, not coaches, is not believable. In any case, the manager is responsible for his team.
It's hard to know how effective this attempt to cheat has been. In Boston, the Yankees beat the Red Sox 5 games to 4 and in New York 6 games to 4. Also, throughout the year the Red Sox have not had good success getting hits with runners in scoring position, just the situation where stealing signs would help the most.
Of course, not succeeding by cheating does not excuse it! If Boston was using illicit means to steal signs they should be penalized for it. The notion that only video operators and players and trainers were involved, not coaches, is not believable. In any case, the manager is responsible for his team.
34
Thanks for a level-headed response. I'm a Sox fan, and my first thought was, if this counterclaim is frivolous, I hope they double the penalty.
Fans must hold their own teams accountable if they're going to point fingers. I don't know what the proper penalty is here, but there should be one.
Fans must hold their own teams accountable if they're going to point fingers. I don't know what the proper penalty is here, but there should be one.
Every team steals signals, including the Yankees. That's the commissioner's real problem.
5
"Everybody does it" is the lamest excuse of all criminals that get caught!
2
Didn't say it made it right; said it's the commissioner's real problem.
Forfeit next years games We need to make it very clear
3
So, is anything sacred anymore?
2
Cheating in baseball is as old as the sport
2
That's baseball, Susan.
2
Spy on Yanks at the ballgame,
spy -- though it's not allowed!
What's in the small box of CrackerJacks?
Looks like a camera lens out the back
to steal signs, steal signs for the home team!
If they don't win, it's a shame!
For it's one, two, three signs stolen by Sox
at the ol' ballgame!
spy -- though it's not allowed!
What's in the small box of CrackerJacks?
Looks like a camera lens out the back
to steal signs, steal signs for the home team!
If they don't win, it's a shame!
For it's one, two, three signs stolen by Sox
at the ol' ballgame!
3
There once was an Apple Watch user
Who’s baseball team would be a loser
If not for frequent theft
From pitchers right and left
Of signs til faced by his accuser
Who’s baseball team would be a loser
If not for frequent theft
From pitchers right and left
Of signs til faced by his accuser
7
How 'bout those Celtics, though? Clean and green!
1
How many errors occurred when the player took his eye off the ball to look at his watch?
1
The players did not have watches on and they were at bat when the signs were delivered to them. Did you even read the article?
That seals it. Apple watches have to go.
1
Well we shouldn't be surprised. The Red Sox cheated their way to the World Series and now they're trying to find a new way to do so. It's funny how one can never run out of reasons to hate that team!
4
Maybe a rule change is in order. I mean Apple Watches? Everybody has access. Fair game.
1
I think it fair that the penalty should be a forfeit of any games where this cheating took place,
5
Sox have to forfeit any games won against teams that they spied on.
7
As a life long Red Sox fan, I hope the punishment is severe. Someone has to set some moral standards in this country already.
13
Somewhere the baseball gods are smiling. In just over two years, January 20, 2020, it will be the one hundredth anniversary of the Yankees purchase of Babe Ruth's contract and the Red Sox are still smarting.
7
Alas, another dirty cheat by a Boston team. Deflate Gate (Tom Brady deflating footballs to his advantage in the playoffs); Spygate (Patriots taping Rams practice before Super Bowl XXXVI), and now Applegate? I think the appropriate and measured response is for the US Supreme Court to ban all Boston professional sports teams from operating for 10 years. Minimum 10 years.
7
remember two years ago when the Cardinals hacked into other MLB teams' computers (notably the Astros) to steal player data? No? You would if it were the Sox (or Pats). That's b/c stories are always more interesting when it involves Boston not so much when its, say, St Louis. Too much winning up here.
yawn.
yawn.
8
Actually I do remember and do not root for the Cardinals...
Cheating goes hand in hand with Boston's "winning" the last 15 years.
Video personnel to trainers to dugout to runner to hitter? All in the time it takes for a pitcher to nod and throw? Really? Maybe the pitchers should actually get the sign and throw the ball. There, problem solved.
9
Assuming this was a widespread, planned attempt at stealing signs from the Red Sox organization, I expect that we'll be underwhelmed by any punishment doled out from Commissioner Manfred.
Although not a precedent, if we look at the most recent major cheating scandal in Major League Baseball, when the Cardinals hacked into the Astros database to steal valuable information on prospects, the punishment was nothing short of a joke. The Cardinals were forced to give the Astros $2 million as well as their top two choices in the 2017 draft - picks number 56 and 75. That money is chump change in baseball today, and those low of picks certainly isn't any significant blow to the Cardinals farm system.
Even if the Red Sox instituted this system against many teams, the punishment will most likely not fit the crime.
Although not a precedent, if we look at the most recent major cheating scandal in Major League Baseball, when the Cardinals hacked into the Astros database to steal valuable information on prospects, the punishment was nothing short of a joke. The Cardinals were forced to give the Astros $2 million as well as their top two choices in the 2017 draft - picks number 56 and 75. That money is chump change in baseball today, and those low of picks certainly isn't any significant blow to the Cardinals farm system.
Even if the Red Sox instituted this system against many teams, the punishment will most likely not fit the crime.
17
I thought that what someone in the Cardinals' organization did to the Astros was at least figuratively, if not literally, criminal. Maybe it deserved a more serious punishment. But how do you judge the size of this crime by the Red Sox? I think it's hard to establish even that it got them any more hits, let alone that it won them any more games. I don't condone it for a second, and I absolutely believe that they deserve some sort of censure, but the embarrassment alone may effectively outweigh any benefit they actually derived. And as a fan of the NY Yankees I can say that the Red Sox ought to be thoroughly embarrassed.
Aha. I can't find my collection of Yankees' baseball cards, lots of pristine cards from the '50's and no bent corners, still smelling of bubble gum. They were/are in two Kodak camera boxes and one size 9 shoe box. Did the red sox steal those too? I want them back. Reward.
3
Yanks were 11-8 vs. the Sox this year. And they are 2 games behind in the loss column. Did the sign-stealing contribute to three more Red Sox wins? Would the Yankees have been 14-5 and in first place right now? We'll never know. We do know the Yankees are the better team. Bring on October!
1
What is it about Boston? Seriously though, why don't we allow the pitcher and catcher to communicate some other way so the signal can't be stolen? Use an electronic signal that presumably can't be hacked. The pitcher and catcher can have a little device built into their gloves they can communicate back and forth with.
3
They should take away their playoff standing. Let them finish regular season, then pull the top 2 teams from the wild card. Sure we lose a wild card game but this is unacceptable and should not be tolerated in baseball.
2
1st Solution: Pitcher looks to his respective dugout for his signs. Five or more people deliver the sign on a rotational basis.
2nd solution: Let the fans choose the pitch electronically.
2nd solution: Let the fans choose the pitch electronically.
Le's the fans choose? If you are serious, then you are the perfect argument for the fans not choosing anything.
I have no idea why as of yet catchers and pitchers aren't outfitted with electronic gear that would make antiquated non-digital hand signs even necessary. That's funny, non-digital hand signs utilizing fingers which are digits. The world's not big enough for both humans and computers. It's time we decided which one to keep and get rid of the other.
1
If a game has rules there's someone cheating.
22
Doesn't make it right.
I agree with Citizen. And if the Red Sox have figured out this angle, it is quite possible some other team has too. My solution would be to issue a cease and desist order about this to all teams. Figure out a standard penalty for it. And scrutinize the video footage for it after games. If it was this easy to catch via camera, it should be easy to shut down. It's disappointing, however, that the Sox violated the spirit of the game. Really disappointing.
If the Red Sox using an Apple Watch is bad how is the Yankees using a video camera any better? And how do we know that's the only thing the Yankees were filming? And why in this age of technology are they still using hand signals if they are so important to a team's success?
3
"The Red Sox responded in kind on Tuesday, filing a complaint against the Yankees, claiming that the team uses a camera from its television network, YES, exclusively to steal signs during games."
The Red Sox have freely confessed to stealing signs.
It has not been ESTABLISHED that the Yankees relayed stolen signs.
Standard procedure when accused is to accuse the accuser.
An accusation is only that. When the Yankees confess or are otherwise exposed you will have a legitimate gripe.
Not before.
The Red Sox have freely confessed to stealing signs.
It has not been ESTABLISHED that the Yankees relayed stolen signs.
Standard procedure when accused is to accuse the accuser.
An accusation is only that. When the Yankees confess or are otherwise exposed you will have a legitimate gripe.
Not before.
1
The Yankees are not that honorable.
The Sox admitted they stole signs; it happened. Then the cheaters alleged that the Yankees used the YES camera. No finding, no admission, big difference.
When did the Red Sox hire Bill Belichick ?
187
haha!! that's funny!!!
1
that's it? that's all you have? It's just like everything else you rush to write here. insignificant.
1
Baseball is struggling enough without unnecessary cheating scandals. I suppose cheating is the new national past time...sigh
4
Why is it always Boston? Maybe it's something in the water. I'm beginning to hate the Red Sox as much as I've always hated the Yankees, maybe more.
53
Me too, and I live right outside Boston!
1
And if you don't like the way we drive, stay off of the sidewalks.
1
The ketchup socks strike again. Sad!
18
Inspiration for the Patriots opening night I'm sure.
Cheat Boston Cheat!
Cheat Boston Cheat!
30
Sox fan here. All I can say is the results speak for themselves: The Yankees kicked the Sox' butt two out of the three games. Thanks Apple watch!
20
The Aug 18th series, sox took two out of three from the Yankees at Fenway. Yes, thank Apple watch.
2
The red sox actually won 2 of 3 that series.
1
Give them all Apple watches.
Problem gone.
Problem gone.
1
Well, it's only baseball.
2
As a baseball and Red Sox fan, this season has been one of the increasingly rare pleasures free of politics, cynicism and controversy. So much for that, I guess. Just when it seemed we were putting the PED era behind us, here comes the technology era...and there goes a lot more of my enthusiasm for the national pastime.
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You're seriously kidding yourself if you lose enthusiasm for Baseball for doing nothing less than what the rest of society does.
Baseball is not played in a bubble; it's simply another prism to see ourself through.
Baseball is not played in a bubble; it's simply another prism to see ourself through.
Or, Ken, Patrick understands the connection between life and sports and doesn't need your lecture about the rest of society.
A lot of good it's doing them. Lost three to the Yanks, lost to Toronto last night. The Yankees ought to insist they keep doing it.
65
Wrong series. The cheating was done up in Fenway in an earlier series.
1
Well, OK, they stole signals....but it WAS against the Yankees, so....perfectly understandable.
14
The act of stealing signs is as the writer mentions a time-honored tradition. But whether the Red Sox did anything wrong depends on who's dugout you're standing in. The real crux of the issue is that with the emergence and implementation of more and more technology into sports, this problem will only persist and grow more complicated. The bottom line is you'll never be able to stop someone watching a game from stealing signs and relaying them to the team. That time has passed. The best thing to do now is learn to adapt. And perhaps create a new way to communicate between pitchers and catchers. Also, don't get caught.
14
Except using electronic devices to record signs is against MLB rules. No seasoned baseball fan has a problem with a crafty player standing at 2nd base trying to steal signs with his eyeballs, and there is no specific rule against doing something nobody can prove. Someone using what amounts to a spy camera to try to gain an advantage is completely cowardly, demonstrates a spectacular lack of respect for a "time-honored" game, embarrasses the Sox players themselves for not being smart enough to read & steal signs without getting caught, and will probably lead to some pitchers taking liberties with the up & in part of the zone over the next season or two.
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In response to Joey:
Except they aren't using the Apple watch to steal signs -- they're using it to relay info to the dugout (which is then relayed with signs and calls to the outfielders). The article's title and description of the issue are misleading, as if there is an app that steals there catcher's signs to the pitcher.
All teams are trying to steal signs. They do this by using television and computers. I.e., technology. But it's allowed per MLB rules because it's not being used in the dugout.
Getting the info to the dugout is the issue in question. In Yankee stadium, the video room is right behind the dugout, so an Apple watch isn't going to be an advantage in that ballpark. In Fenway, where the video room is down the hallway and up a staircase, using an Apple watch to relay directly could hypothetically be an advantage. However, there is nothing preventing a team from sending a text to a person directly outside the dugout and relaying it immediately in -- from this example and understanding the differences between stadiums, it's easy to see that "no technology in the dugout" is a contentious rule that is very narrowly enforced. If MLB wanted to ban sign stealing, they would need to have a rule against watching or filming the game in real time.
Except they aren't using the Apple watch to steal signs -- they're using it to relay info to the dugout (which is then relayed with signs and calls to the outfielders). The article's title and description of the issue are misleading, as if there is an app that steals there catcher's signs to the pitcher.
All teams are trying to steal signs. They do this by using television and computers. I.e., technology. But it's allowed per MLB rules because it's not being used in the dugout.
Getting the info to the dugout is the issue in question. In Yankee stadium, the video room is right behind the dugout, so an Apple watch isn't going to be an advantage in that ballpark. In Fenway, where the video room is down the hallway and up a staircase, using an Apple watch to relay directly could hypothetically be an advantage. However, there is nothing preventing a team from sending a text to a person directly outside the dugout and relaying it immediately in -- from this example and understanding the differences between stadiums, it's easy to see that "no technology in the dugout" is a contentious rule that is very narrowly enforced. If MLB wanted to ban sign stealing, they would need to have a rule against watching or filming the game in real time.
What he said!
What is it with New England teams (I'm looking at you Patriots)
cheating?
cheating?
104
Suspend Brady for the first three games. That'll teach 'em.
1
What is it about fans from other parts of the country? Pats clobbered Colts in second half of that playoff game with the footballs properly inflated. Save your jealousy for the Vikings.
Professional sports, where sportsmanship goes to die! I love Redsox but come on..
4
Why did the Baltimore Orioles sweep at Boston a couple weeks ago?
2
Obviously stealing signs to no guarantee of victory.
It's still cheating.
It's still cheating.
First the Patriots and now the Red Sox. What is it about these Boston athletes that they don't know how to win the way most teams do -- by playing better.
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
194
Well, they play better AND they cheat. Somehow I don't imagine that cheating is confined to Boston.
Like any of them are actually from Boston.
Why get so worked up about it?
Why get so worked up about it?
1
Says a New Yorker.
They used Apple Watches to steal signs and the Yankees still took 3 of 4. How embarrassing for the Sox. So this recent string of losses for them seems to coincide with their little operation getting shut down. September may look a lot different for this team when their hitters aren't being told what pitch to expect next.
5
If you're going to employ tech, 'Apple' is the way to go. I guess 'plan A' - deflating the baseballs - didn't quite work out. Go Yankees!!!
13
Didn't realize Bill Belichick was now also coaching the Red Sox.
66
First the Patriots now the Red Sox. Boston, the best cheaters money can buy.
58
Red Sox cheated fair, square.
4
This is ridiculous. Teams from New England never cheat. I'm positive!
4